Posts Tagged ‘HYPP’
Maybe it needs a simpler name?
After reading the latest Horsetopia breeding fiasco, I’ve decided that we need to rename Lethal White Syndrome to a name BYB’s can understand. I’m going to suggest Dead Baby Syndrome. Maybe that will get the point across!
To give those of you unfamiliar with it a short primer on lethal white, aka OLWS – it’s kind of like HYPP. It’s caused by a mutated gene and as long as you don’t breed a positive to a positive, you CAN NOT get a lethal white foal. But in this case, a positive has one copy of the gene – not two. If they have two, they’re dead within about 72 hours and you don’t have to worry about them reproducing. They are both with malformed bowels and cannot defecate normally. It’s like being born with a built-in impaction. The intestines are never going to work normally, so it’s not a matter of the vet being able to clear the impaction. They just don’t have the ability to get waste out of their body.
As with HYPP, you cannot tell by looking. If you breed two horses together that are positive, 25% of the time you’re going to get a lethal white foal that has two copies of the gene and will die.
As with HYPP, there are a lot of misconceptions. People think you can only get a lethal white breeding two overos. BZZZZT! Wrong. You can get a lethal white breeding two SOLIDS. The gene has also been seen in tobianos. It happens, and the only way to know the truth is to test.
It costs a whopping $25 to test, so why wouldn’t you test your horses if you breed spotted horses (it doesn’t just happen in Paints but in Minis and other breeds where you have overo coat patterns), rather than risk a foal that dies in agony within his first few days of life? Oh wait, the same reason people don’t HERDA test…because they are lazy, cheap and ignorant.
So, Backyard Breeder du Jour posts pics of her foal the other day and the educated folks on Horsetopia (they do exist) pointed out that it sure looked like a lethal white. But no, it’s “very healthy.” Uh-huh. Ooops! Spoke too soon! A day later, it’s not doing well – but it’s not a lethal white. No sirree. “The vet has been out and says he’s not acting like a lethal white would and he does have a bit more color than just his tail. He’s acting more like kidney failure than a colic. He is nursing well and was very active until early this morning. At this point the vet is stumped. We have our fingers crossed.” You guessed it, finger crossing, prayers and good wishes from the Internet did not save the foal. Shocker!
NOW they are testing to see if he was a lethal white! NOW! You couldn’t spend the $25 before you bred the mare? I’ll bet your vet bill has been a lot more than $25. Just a guess.
Of course, BYB here does not seem like the sharpest tool in the shed based upon her other pics on her web site. Her kids don’t look like they have much better chance than her foals. She brags about her brand new facility – ok, we get it, you’re not broke, so start OLWS testing your horses and buy your kids some boots and helmets!
And she is a registered nurse. I don’t get it. I swear, I do not get it at all. She surely can understand genetics. She surely can understand what happens when that horse’s hoof hits her kid’s toes or worse yet her little face. I do NOT get it.
OK, back on topic…as with HYPP and HERDA, I strongly recommend patronizing stallions whose breeders have done all of the testing so that there are no surprises. Remember, one of the best things we can do to encourage responsible breeding is to vote with our wallets – even if you know your mare is negative and the stallion’s status is irrelevant, look for a tested stallion. Some stallion owners of positive stallions do not breed positive mares, and that is another policy that should be strongly encouraged. As with HERDA, a positive status isn’t a reason not to breed – it’s just a sign that you must only breed to a horse with a negative status.
$25 of knowing the facts or a 25% chance of a foal that is going to die within days. Seems like a no-brainer to me — too bad so many people with no brains are breeding horses!
The KB’s thank you for keeping up their supply!
Well, where to begin? We’ll start out with the complete cluelessness about HYPP. “In 2010, I will have my 2007 Dun Tobiano Stallion, Tuff Drifter Music, up for stud. If you like him, sign up early and name you own price of Stud Fee. When the funds are available I will have him tested for HYPP (Impressive is in pedigree). Since his gene pool is large the gene shouldn’t be present, but for those who are concerned I will have him tested and post them here (when I can).” You know what, you can have a HYPP positive horse who has one cross to Impressive six generations back. The size of the gene pool is irrelevant. And are you seriously saying you can’t afford a $50 HYPP test? And while most yearlings look funky, I am pretty sure this one is not going to grow out of his short neck, upright shoulder and nonexistant hip. Nor is it a good idea to deal with the downhill appearance of a typical stock breed yearling by parking him out like a saddleseat horse!
Of course, Sunshine Stallion Owner is posting all over about her horses. When asked if she is going to geld Spotty Colt up there, she responds “I would like to keep him intacked.” Priceless! Of course, when she is called out by the message board on the fact that it might just be inappropriate to (a) breed this colt (b) ride him for an hour at nineteen months of age, she gets defensive and asks if that person is just trying to make her mad.
Like THIS one that Sunshine sold for $100? She’s not by that colt, but she’s definitely a double-decker prospect. Thin, wormy and neglected looking. Sold for $100 on the Internet.
The witness observed that the vehicle had no license plate. He then saw a man leading a horse wearing a cooler and carrying a lunge line. At this point a police cruiser arrived with a female constable. The witness said he was relieved that the police had arrived and then left the scene believing that they would handle the situation. He returned after getting his groceries about 15-20 mins later and saw the constable standing there with her hands on her hips looking at the horse lying in the ditch. The rest was on the news but there was no mention of the female police constable who allowed this to happen to the horse. Despicable. I hope she has lost sleep over this too. She was the last hope this horse had to not suffer and die as it did.”
Time for another auction report…
As long as people keep breeding garbage and arguing that it’s their right, I’m going to keep posting these. This is where all those little grade and low-end registered foals end up. And yes, weanlings DO go to the kill buyer. The rule is they have to be six months old to go to kill but do you think anybody is checking? It’s like the pregnant mare thing – pregnant mares aren’t supposed to go to kill but, oops, a foal gets born on the slaughterhouse floor. No one is enforcing the laws.
Submitted by a reader in Texas:
Auction report
Saturday, June 8, 2008
The low end horse market is rough, rough, rough here in Texas. This weekend’s sale was the worst in remembering. I’m not talking about horse stock since there is always a wide range of $50 weanlings to the $1000 ranch horses. I’m talking about a complete lack of people to buy them. There were far fewer horses than usual and far fewer people. There are usually two killer buyers that frequent this auction but only one bothered to show up for tonight. By the time the last horse ran through at 11:00 PM, there were only a handful of people still there. This guest blog is in no means meant to show the auction barn in a bad light since they are all good people who want the horses to sell well. This is only meant to highlight what is going on around the country as prices drop lower and lower. The low of the night was a black mule who couldn’t get a bid at $25. Highest horse was $1100. I also want to note that the killer buyer was selling some horses as well so yes you are reading that right.
Reg. APHA Sorrel Overo Gelding- ridden in; very well turned out; used as a pleasure horse- $450 No sale. Owner wanted $600
15 yo Reg APHA Red Roan Tobiano Mare- ridden in; nice spin but big gash in her side- $500
14 yo Bay Mare- looked like a mule (ewe neck and big ears); ridden in; very skinny- $150 to the killer buyer
7 yo Grade Palomino Gelding – used as trail/drill team horse; ewe neck; ridden by a teenager; tossing head constantly- $650
7-8 yo Grade Bay Roan Mare- one of the KBs horses; used as a cutting horse; BUILT! Great turn and stop- No saled at $700 (He wanted $1000)
Reg. AQHA Sorrel Mare and colt pair- very skinny mama; broodmare only- $275 (KB wouldn’t buy b/c of foal)
3 yo Grade Rose Grey Gelding- looked about ready to buck the rider off; cute but hot- $350 No sale
15 yo Grade Sorrel Gelding- ridden in but chomping at the bit; had a nice neck rein though- $500
3 yo Reg. AQHA Black Mare- wild-eyed and didn’t ride well; no turn at all; barely broke and almost rearing; very plain- $325 No sale
6 yo Grade Red Dun Mare- Roman nose but pretty; green broke; solid built but neck too thick- No sale (buyer wanted $1000)
8 yo Paint Pony Chestnut Mare- maybe a Shetland; stood around 11H; very, very cute and flashy; nicely turned out in full tack but ridden in by an adult; just weaned a baby and might be bred back- $500
Yearling Bay Paint Colt- was led in and then proceeded to try and mount the handler 3 times; handler thought it was funny- $150
21 month old Grade Chestnut Colt- Drop dead gorgeous but a complete ass; he had been trying to mount some yearlings through the fence in his pen before the sale. Both parents are reg. QHs but they never bothered with the paperwork Led in and released; reared in arena- $900
15 month old Grade Sorrel Colt- ewe necked but well handled; led into arena and very respectful of handler; long backed- $100
7 yo Grade Sorrel Mare- corralled into ring; not halter broke; very wild-eyed; okay looking; okay movement- less than $200
2 yo Grade Red Dun Colt- wouldn’t lead; pretty but nesty; also thick through throat latch- $800
12 yo Grade Mare- wouldn’t lead; broodmare only- $175 No sale
Yearling Grey Jack- shaggy and ugly even for a donkey- $40
(Pictured) 13 yo Paint Red Roan Mare- cute but obviously lame- $150 No sale
2 yo AQHA Bay Colt- leggy and malnourished; maybe 13H; leads ok; racing bred- $125
6 yo Paint Jack- led ok, girl hopped on back- No bids
Yearling Reg. APHA Black Gelding- leads well; very downhill- $375
3 yo Reg. AQHA Sorrel Gelding- very good racing lines; skinny and narrow-based- $175 to KB
Yearling APHA Sorrel Filly- not halter broke; pretty markings- $300 No sale
Yearling Reg. APHA Palomino Filly- very well turned out; leads- $425
4 yo Reg. APHA Grey Mare- lovely markings and a cute face; great racing lines but narrow-base; broke as a 2 yo but “needs workâ€- $300 (This is the one I bid on and I’m kicking myself for not going to $325)
2 yo Reg. AQHA Palomino Mare- nice but looked like a yearling; not halter broke- $350
2 yo Reg. AQHA Dun Colt- brought in with previous mare and same thoughts on size and training; well bred- $350
10 yo Black Grade Gelding- solid ranch horse; had done some healing; rode quiet- $650
4 yo Black Grade Colt- pointy hip; could make a nice gelding- $125
Weanling Reg. AQHA Colt- mangy and thin; not halter broke- $100
Weanling Grade Sorrel Colt- worm belly- $25 to KB
5 yo Grade Sorrel Mare- ridden in; pretty but short-necked; bad scrape on hind quarters- $350
15 yo ApHA Bay Mare- very flashy but stick-tailed and hot hot hot; kicking at anything and everything in her pen- $450 to KB for resale
4 yo Grade Grey Colt- couldn’t have been more than 13H; skinny skinny and sway-backed- $75
Paint Sorrel Gelding- ridden in but wouldn’t turn and tossing head- $300 to KB
2 yo AQHA Sorrel Gelding- very well turned out; very well-bred; handled daily; tested and free of HYPP; beautiful hip; handled well and ready to be broke- $1000
2 AQHA Reg. Red Dun Fillies- yearlings; not halter broke; one had a huge sore under his belly from being kicked- $75 to KB
2 yo Reg. AQHA Black Filly- Very well turned out and calm. Very pretty and well bred; HYPP N/N- $850
Reg. APHA Black Mare- looked more like a fjord w/ roached mane and all; rode well and calm; looked in foal; very thick neck- $900
Two ponies led in together; one was registered as a Shetland I think- Reg. went for $300 and other went to KB for $225 for resale (I assume)
13 yo Reg. APHA Bay Mare- ridden 3-4 times; broodmare; handled well and led in by a child; very well bred and well built- $300
2 yo Paint Bay Gelding- very loud tobiano with nice markings; guaranteed sound; rode well but high head carriage- $1100 (high sale of the night)
5 yo Grade Grulla Mare & Filly Foal- weak hip and ewe neck- see note below
8 yo Grade Grey Mare & Filly Foal- cute but grade- see note below
7 month old Black Mule- out of a POA mare; leads and learning to drive- No bids even at $25 No sale
Weanling Reg. AQHA Sorrel Filly- leads well and picks up feet- $100 No sale
For 44 and 45 the Killer buyer was hoping to sell the 2 month old babies who were suckling their mothers in the ring as weanlings in order to take the mares away for slaughter. I wasn’t quite sure what happened in the end but I believe that none of them sold. I would count that as the low point of the night.
FHOTD back in: Yeah. Keep breeding those $25 foals…this is just so frustrating. It’s not like we don’t know what makes them happen. And please note the mule that got no bids, for those of you who argue oh, no, mules ALWAYS sell, it’s still just FINE to breed mules. Apparently the low end is not selling in anything…not even mules!
And a happy ending for you…Most of us who watch racing have seen a horse break down on the track, and even if they can get up and walk, a lot of them do not make it or are swiftly sent to kill. That was almost the case with a colt named Lord Gabriel who broke his coffin bone in a race at age three. Another race trainer saw the accident and decided to buy him and rehab him after finding out the owner planned to send him to auction. They rehabbed him successfully and he made a successful return to racing before retiring. He was gelded and sold and became an eventer.
Many years later, they got the call that he needed a home once more. At age 17, he came back to them and became their daughter’s new show horse. This picture was taken at his last show. He has retired and now hangs around the barn begging for jelly donuts. He will be with them forever. How gorgeous is he?
‘Tis the season to start breaking out, er…DOWN the yearlings!
It’s fall and if you’re around any kind of a stock breed barn that shows horses in the 2 year old futurities, you’ve probably seen what I have – 17, 18, 19 month old horses already under saddle. There’s a lot of money in those 2 year old futurities, and stallion owners are hot to “make a name for” their stud by getting his firstborns out there winning. So, despite the fact that every vet out there who isn’t in the pocket of some big-money AQHA/APHA/ApHC breeder agrees that riding yearlings is just plain stupid, that their joints and spine aren’t ready to handle carrying a rider and collecting themselves, right now thousands of yearlings are being ridden.
This doesn’t even take into account the racing industry, also interested in winning money on those 2 year old races. Tons of little Thoroughbreds – butt high, narrow, gawky and ridiculous looking – are going for their first gallops even as we speak. Plenty break down. They break down going for those first gallops. They break down in training. They break down in their first or second start at age two. They are quietly vanned off the track, big screens put up to shield spectators from seeing the carnage. The ones that break down at the show horse barns are never seen. They are hidden in a back stall until they can be shipped to an auction or picked up by the local dealer. Curious boarders and other owners are told the horse was sold. Well, I guess it’s not a total lie…
And then we just have the sea of idiots that don’t realize this is wrong.
You longtime readers know that I’m 100% opposed to working anything under 3 years old. Hey, if you want to get on your 2.5 year old and go for a walk around the arena, I won’t think you’re Satan. If you do the same on your 1.5 year old or you’re out loping that 2.5 year old for a half hour and doing sliding stops – yeah, I think you’re a jerk, a jerk who’s going to contribute heavily to that horse’s future unsoundnesses. Show me a horse campaigned for the 2 year old futurities when it’s 10 years old and if it isn’t full of arthritis (sometimes in conjunction with navicular), I’ll eat my hunt cap. The damage is so consistent and it’s almost always there. It truly takes a horse with legs of steel to come out of this program ready and able to work for another 20 years.
Unfortunately, a lot of breeders don’t care. The goal is to win the money and then retire them to breed more. We’re not selecting for long-term soundness here. Geldings? Well, they’re totally disposable. Break ‘em down and break out some new ones.
(Click to see a larger version of the ad). Here we go – classic. Riding a yearling. Can’t spell. No mention of its HYPP status even though HYPP positive horses are mentioned in its pedigree. No show record. And she wants $15 grand for it!
Here’s another thing I see all the time: Young person, young horse. I’m not sure if they are trying to argue that this 10 year old child isn’t heavy enough to do damage to this yearling gelding, or if this is just the usual “child as prop to sell horse” sale tactic, but either way it’s wrong. You can see how downhill this little guy is. He has a lot of growing up to do before he’s ready for riding! Unfortunately, his ad brags that he’s already had 30 days of professional training under saddle – one would assume with someone a tad bit larger than the pictured rider. He’s a March ’07 baby and this ad was posted October ’08. So he was started at the latest when he was only 18 months old.
Not everybody does this. I could name people in racing, cutting, reining, and pleasure that don’t break out their horses until they’re three. Those people exist and they are competing successfully. Many of them are making the point on their web sites and on their sale ads that they wait to break out their horses. When you see that – please consider patronizing those individuals as trainers, instructors and breeders. As with everything, your wallet is a good way to make a point.
By the way, while we’re on the topic of selling young stock – I keep hearing a lot of discussion online about what horses are worth in this market. Well, presentation isn’t everything but it is A LOT. Although this is a casual picture, taken in the stall, this gelding is spotless and in gorgeous condition. He looks like a $7,000 horse. And look, the stall is clean. Trust me, these details matter if you want to catch the eye of the person who has $7,000 to spend on a horse. While I actually like a lot about this colt, he’s hairy, he’s a little thin, and he’s unfit. He might be a $7,000 colt if he were in the same condition as gelding #1 but I just don’t think they’re going to get it looking like this. If you were selling a car, you’d make sure it was washed and waxed for pics, wouldn’t you? The same goes for a horse.
P.S. Look at this great little bargain. I think he’s adorable. $1000! Go get him, someone who wants a pleasure prospect. Just don’t ride him til he’s 3, okay?
P.P.S. Whoever bred this, STOP IT!
P.P.P.S. GELDING BUS! Look at the itsy bitsy feet and the super long pasterns in front…those feet might be the right size…on a mini!
Leading the…oh shit, get out of the way, TIMBER!!!
Today I’d like to announce the formation of the American Halter Horse Association, which I think we might as well retitle the American HYPP Horse Association since it’s pretty obvious that’s the real reason for its formation. Their slogan is “We aren’t along for the ride; We’re leading the way!â„¢” A snarky but accurate poster on another board already observed that the subtitle should be …”Cause we’re afraid to get on our horses in case they fall down!” Oh, touche. You see, this is a new registry created in March of this year to promote halter horses of any breed. They compare it to the way NCHA promotes cutting horses of any breed. Except, well, it’s pretty obvious from their web site that they’re only interested in stock type halter horses. And when you get to their FAQ, the reason for the creation of this new registry becomes abundantly clear:
Q: What is the AHHA’s position on issues like HYPP?
A: The AHHA is not limiting registration to exclude any genetic abnormality Well, yay! Now the H/H stud at left can just keep splashing around in the gene pool, spewing his defectiveness far and wide. Lovely pasterns, too, and could his hocks be any further under his body?
Congratulations and welcome to the We Don’t Give A Fuck, We Just Want To Make Money Registry. Got a genetic abnormality? Come on in! Bring your money! Come to our horse shows! We already have four scheduled for next year! And we don’t have no stinkin’ rules against stuff like your horse falling down and having an attack in the halter class. We understand that these things happen. We are thinking of having a year-end award where you get a humongous case of Karo Syrup. (OK, I made that part up, but seriously, I see a real promotional opportunity for the ACH Food Companies here. Not to mention Wyeth for the acetazolamide. Hell, Wyeth has such a great record with humane treatment of horses anyway, I figure they’ll sign right up!)
Oh hell, it gets better. Their rule book notes they believe in “Keeping our events as family events with solid Christian values at our core.” Their rule book actually quotes Scripture. OK, can anyone out there point to the part of the bible that says “be fruitful and multiply defective horses likely to suffocate to death?” What happened to the good stewardship over the animals part? Apparently, along with all the little children, Jesus loves the big money halter horse industry. Who knew?
Here you go, straight from their rule book – as I like to say, “folks, I don’t make this shit up!:”
“To ensure we “Repay no one evil for evil
but be honest, proper and noble –
aiming to be above reproach in the sight
of everyone†– Romans 12:17
Amplified Bible. Texas translation – We will not
be ugly, even when people are ugly to us. We will be
honest, trustworthy and fair so that no one can say we
done them wrong.”
WTF is so honest, proper and noble about allowing the registration of genetically defective stock? Exactly WHAT noble and honorable lesson are you teaching the next generation when they get to watch their horses die in front of them, gasping for air? You ARE ugly if you think it’s ok to keep breeding HYPP horses. You need to re-read that part of the Bible about how money is the root of all evil. Believe it or not, that is not meant to apply to people other than you. Giving HYPP positive horses an opportunity to show and breed apart from the regular registries that kicked them out for a reason is not doing the Lord’s work. 
Here’s another H/H broodmare who I’m sure will be producing many AHHA horses in the years to come. Love those front legs. Those are awesome.
But it’s not just the AHHA that is continuing to promote HYPP positive horses and act like it’s no big deal. An alert reader sent me some recent ApHC minutes in which the Board voted unanimously to approve the use of acetazolimide as a legal drug to keep those HYPP positive Appies showing. Yay ApHC…because everybody needs a spotted horse flailing around on its side in their barn!
A little more research sent me to another site about HYPP. Unlike Bringing Light to HYPP, this one “doesn’t take a side.” As they say, “We support all views on HYPP and neither is considered right or wrong.” Their bulletin board was down (damn! You know it would have been a sea of idiocy!) but I did find this brain donor on their “letters” page. Based upon his e-mail address, he appears to work at a school – we’ll hope it’s not as a teacher, based upon his poor logic. His words in black, my comments in blue.
“Hypp is exactly that “hype” Wow,did you think that line up all by yourself? Sure it is something that serious breeders should concern themselves with, but it isn’t any different than any other genetic deviation that people have been ignoring for a very long time. Well, most people are not ignoring it, and most genetic deviations do not result in the horse falling over, unable to breathe. This is not like, say, being born with one floppy ear. In my opinion, it seems to be the only ones making noise about Hypp, are those who aren’t affected. I have yet to meet an Hypp bandwagon jumper who have ever owned a positive horse. Clearly he hasn’t been to the other site to read all the stories from people whose horses died from it, or to Youtube to see the sad “memorial videos” from teenage girls who lost their pet. Again it is my opinion that this is probably the new way people who do not like the entire halter aspect of the stock horse industry. “horses are too fat…, not usin’kind of horses…, etc.” The new way of what? Hey if you don’t like halter horses fine…don’t show halter. What about all of the breeders who breed N/N halter horses only. Do they just not like halter horses, either? I personally don’t care for Fords so do I lead a boycott to get rid of them…no,I don’t buy one. Um, they stopped making the Ford Pinto after they determined they BURST INTO FLAMES on impact. HYPP positive horses are the equine equivalent. We’re not talking about strawberry versus vanilla here. We’re talking about a healthy horse versus one that has a potentially fatal defect that may cause it to die a horrible death. Like anything else with horse people this is a heated issue. Everybody takes things so personally. Oh yes. Those silly N/N people, they’re just overemotional and taking it personally! I don’t own an Hypp horse. But I am not afraid of them. Because I am hoping my competitors’ horses will fall over dead and then I can win everything. Yay me! I also really enjoy great pleasure horses so I am not partial to any one segment of the industry. There are those who have many complaints about pleasure horses too. But that is another story. I guess we need to go back in time when the same horse was used to rope calves in the morning, show halter, and ride in all the performance classes in the afternoon because those were the good old days! While we are at it lets all quit using the telephone, get rid of our computers, and walk everywhere we go. In the good old days, we also had no way of testing for and thus avoiding genetic defects. “Progress” allows us to do so. Oh, you mean you didn’t mean that kind of progress was good? Personally I don’t want to return to those days. Why go backwards? Ignoring genetic defects we now know how to avoid is going backwards, duh! Yeah those horses did a lot, but how much of it did they do well? I wasn’t there to watch and neither were you, but one thing I will note: They did not need to have a rule to disqualify halter horses who fell down in the class in those days. I defy anyone to prove to me that yesterdays reining horses were better than todays modern reiner, or cutters. So if that can be true for horses in those disciplines, why not halter? The whole point of ever having a halter class used to be to critique conformation with performance in mind. Now it’s got nothing to do with anything else; it’s an end in itself, with generations of horses who never get broke past the ability to lead, horses who are lame with trembling legs over at the knee by age 6, horses permanently crippled from overfeeding, falling over and suffocating seen as an “acceptable” risk. That’s the difference between specializing in halter and specializing in, say, working hunter. Finally let’s remember the consumers rule the market place, if the modern halter horse wasn’t what a majority of the people want then who is it buying all of them. We’re not talking about the modern halter horse, we’re talking about HYPP positive horses. If none were available, halter horse devotees would buy N/N horses and life -and halter class- would go on. Tim McLochlin” 
However, Mimi Michielsseni got it right, after sadly experiencing the death of her young mare who was purchased before everybody knew about HYPP: “My view on the subject is no one should beeed any horse knowlingly with HYPP. Anyone who does is a Jackass. “ Mimi, I could not have said it better myself! At left, a 2007 filly … born HYPP H/H.
