Guest Post: Proper Equine Etiquette for Buying a Horse
Feb 22 2012
I had a recent conversation with a friend who makes a living out of buying, training and selling horses. She has come across more than few riders that have come to ride her sale horses with no intention of buying but were looking to see what it was like to ride her particular horses. So this brought me to today’s post about what I feel is proper etiquette when it comes to buying a horse.
When buying, training and selling horses becomes your job and main source of income the phone call from a potential client can be exciting and misleading. We may have all experienced the riders who make a habit of coming out and “test riding” horses just because they want to know what a $50,000 horse feels like and they have no intention of buying the horse. It becomes a waste of your time and a frustrated effort.
For those of you who are not into training and sales, you may not what exactly goes into the preparation for the potential sale. Most good sale barns will have all current vetting paperwork ready for viewing (i.e current vaccinations, coggins, x-rays ect.), they have the horse groomed at show quality and already tacked up for you ready to ride. There are several hours that go into preparing for your visit and most of the time they’re whole day is rearranged just so they can devote their individual attention to you.
So what can you do as a potential buyer to prepare for your visit without wasting your time or the sellers?
Well, start off by being realistic; don’t try to buy a $50,000 horse if you cannot afford it. Instead get all your finances straight and have a solid number you’re ready to hand them in cash. If you saved $5000 for a horse, then only look for a horse and try out a horse that is $5000 or less.
Be serious about buying a horse. Horses a huge commitment and they require a lot of attention and have many needs. Sometimes your board is the cheapest part of your new best friend. Be ready to not only be physically committed but financially committed too!
Don’t buy a horse that doesn’t meet your discipline needs. That horse may not work out for you and you will most likely end up giving back the horse to its seller because you are not satisfied with what you thought you were buying. For example, my mother took out a loan to buy a $35,000 ex-foxhunter to make into a dressage horse (I told her not to do it because the horse hated the arena and never wanted to be in a frame and only enjoyed hacking out) and he would buck and kick and lash out whenever you tried to do dressage with him. She was at a dressage show with him and when they entered the ring to start the test, half way through it he jumped out of the arena and tried to take off. He had his own thoughts of what he wanted his job to be and being a dressage horse was not one of them. Lol.
If you have a trainer, BRING THEM WITH YOU!!! Don’t come out alone or with your BFF whose knowledge of horses is “they look so pretty.” It’s a big waste of time if you come out to ride and then say “Well, I need to talk to my trainer first and then I’ll give you a call.” We all
know what that means and we know you won’t be calling us. So while we are thanking you for coming out we are really thinking “Thank you for wasting my time and my employee’s time”
Don’t lie about your riding ability. You should never feel embarrassed or little by how well you ride. Everyone is at all stages of their riding and sellers don’t want to waste the time trying to prepare and sell you a horse that is going to end up being too much for you. If you’re only a beginner rider then try to find a school horse that’s ready to retire from lessons but has plenty of miles left in him to take you where you want to go. You’re not doing yourself or your horse
any favors by being a novice rider trying to ride an advanced horse.
Come ready to ride. Bring your helmet, come in riding attire and whatever else you need that shows you’re ready to get on that horse!
Making simple phone calls to the seller confirming your appointment is just good manners. So if you’re running late or have an emergency don’t just not show up, call and reschedule. Keep the communication open between you and the seller. If you’re no longer interested cause you found something else be honest about it. A lot of people try several different horses but we all know when you find the one there is no need to keep looking. I sometimes compare it to finding the
perfect wedding dress. The dress that makes you cry the words “I love the way this one makes me feel” is most likely the dress you’re going to buy.
So to sum it all up proper etiquette is important when buying a horse. Be prepared, be honest and be communicative. And most of all don’t come out with the intention of wasting someone’s time. It’s a small horse world and your name will travel fast as “the rider who only test rides horses but never buys.” Be classy not trashy!
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129 comments to “Guest Post: Proper Equine Etiquette for Buying a Horse”
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Wow, what a whiney baby! While I don’t do the things described in the article, you chose this business and part of it is having the lookylou’s come out. In other words, it comes with the territory so put on your big girl panties and deal with it. Every business has its own unique drawbacks…..NO sympathy here.
I didn’t think this was whiney. It was a piece on etiquette- saying you shouldn’t look at a horse if you have no intention actually buying a horse (ie, just wanting free rides), that you should be punctual, and honest. These are the same traits you’d want someone selling you a horse to have as well, so I don’t get your response. The author wasn’t saying, “I hate my life and my chosen profession and it’s soooo hard,” they were basically saying, “it’s great when people respect my time and effort as much as I’m expected to respect their time and effort.”
While I understand where you are coming from, I have to disagree. I liken the situation portrayed in this post to something like going to the grocery store just to see what it’s like to shop. Imagine you’re a cashier who just rang through $300 worth of food and such, then when told the total, the person looks at you and says “Oh, I’m not here to buy anything, I just wanted to see what it was like to go grocery shopping.” Someone has to put away all the items brought up, and the cashier has to be payed for their time.
Just like in the post, the store did everything in its power to make the consumer want to buy their goods, and paid its employees to be helpful and effective.
The seller has groomed the horse, worked the horse, gotten all the information together in hopes that this person is going to repay them for their efforts, and for a person to walk into their barn, just for the experience, I think is very disrespectful.
You sound so jaded. It doesn’t have to come with the business if people had enough respect for other people to follow some proper etiquette. There are plenty of people who need to either go back or get a crash course in a finishing school. Thats what is wrong with this world. People feel so entitled and don’t want to make an effort and don’t care who they walk over.
Hitting the “don’t like” button on you. This business has way more than its share of looky-loos and tire-kickers. Too many people just want a free pony ride. I’ve had my time wasted as a trader showing every horse in my barn and having every one of them perform for the buyer at 100%, just to have them say “You know, we just don’t know WHAT we’re looking for! Sorry!” Literally. They did this at several other barns too. I did get my pound of flesh out of them, but that is a story for another time. One of my very favorites and one many on here are likely to love. I have to run now though.
Just because you do get it, doesn’t mean you should. I would compare this to going to see a professional baker and getting a quote for a wedding cake, all the while knowing you can’t afford him. It’s just not right.
And, don’t make the first question out of your mouth be (without first even seeing the horse ) “Will you take less?” Nothing is wrong with honestly saying the horse is not what you are looking for, but don’t degrade the horse to the seller just to try to lower the price. Makes me just want to boot you out of my barn.
I like it, and I think I would have enjoyed horse shopping from your friend.
As a buyer I expect all of the above from a seller. Be clear and honest about what you are selling. Be on time and ready for my visit. Papers ready/Feet done/wormed/vaccinated etc.
Have the horse inside, I don’t want to wait while you seach for him in a muddy paddock. Also groomed, I want to be able to look at his legs and feet, without getting my hands covered in muck. Bonus points if he is trimmed, and otherwise looking show-ready. Have proper fitting tack ready. Have someone competent ready to demo him to me. I want to see his movement and how he collects before I ride.
I only asked my trainer to come with me on the second visit for horses I felt were worth a second look. It was way too expensive to drag her out to see horses that were no where near what was promised in their ads/emails.
It is also a good idea to drag the trainer out AFTER you have decided YOU want the horse. It may be the area of the country that I live in, but there are way too many trainers out there who encourage clients to either buy horses THEY want to ride, or something they know will have the client leaning heavily on them for their services and keep the cash register rolling…or one of their own business contacts happy. Know what YOU want to buy and what YOUR abilities are, and look accordingly. Then if you feel you should have a second opinion, go for it, but if not, don’t. I often feel as if I do my best work by myself on a lot of things. Sometimes there are times when one does need help and when one doesn’t, and we have to learn to discern those times.
I agree with you about not taking the trainer… that’s the part of the article I disagreed with too… I do a first round of looking without my trainer so I don’t waste her time if the horse is not as advertised. Learned my lesson after dragging my trainer to go look at a horse who was super-cute in his photos, but much, much smaller than advertised (too small for me). I’m just glad that horse was only an hour away so I only wasted my trainer’s evening and not a whole day. This article is written from the perspective a professional seller of horses, who maybe doesn’t appreciate that all sellers are not like her. Especially at the lower price points, there is an equal risk that the seller is wasting the buyer’s time as vice versa. It’s just part of the game.
I want to see the horse in the field.
I want to observe how well, or not, he is caught.
I want to see how well he leads.
I want to groom him myself. I can see what his ground manners are like. I can also check with my own hands his body for any deal breakers. I want to be able to check his skin and coat up close and personal for any crud, lumps, or bumps. A little mud is easily fixed.
I want to pick his muddy hooves myself to see how well he lets others handle his feet. Is he good, or does he put up a small fight? Does he calmly let you hold his hoof without trying to jerk it out of his hands? Does he wait until I PUT the hoof down?
I want to see how well, or not, he tacks up. Is he cinchy? Does he crowd me? Does he try to nip? Does step sideways? Or does he just stand still? Does he bridle with ease or does he toss his head or throw his head up making the bridling process a pain in the ass?
I want to see how well he stands tied. I will drink an iced tea and chit chat with the seller just to see how calmly, or not, he stands there tied.
I of course want to ride, but I also want the owner/trainer/handler to ride so I can watch.
If the horse is an angel child in most, or all, these categories I will not have a need to dicker on the price. His training is solid and I won’t have to spend time training him….money well spent. If he is not golden, but I like him and I think he is workable, and that with a little of my time and patience he will be come a nice little horse, I will dicker on the price.
Basically I feel both the seller and buyer need to have some social grace towards the other. Treat them as you yourself would want to be treated.
This is a great post- I totally agree. I think a lot of people (myself included) are sometimes maybe not necessarily embarrassed about their riding ability, but maybe in denial. I think I’m a fantastic rider, and it might be hard for me to admit to being over-mounted… Guess it might just be pride.
But on a similar note, if I were looking for a horse for a beginner rider, does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might find one? A horse seller might be an option, as I’m looking for something older, dead-broke and bomb-proof, but registration doesn’t matter in the least. I’d like to find a good, older, kid-packer horse, for a good price, where I’m not paying for bloodlines or looks (he can be fugly! I don’t mind!). I’m just wondering where to find these guys. I’m wary of auctions because sometimes you never know what you’re getting.
I recommend two options for inexperienced riders:
1. Horse traders. Start by asking the local lesson barns, the good ones, where they find their horses. If there is a good trader in the area, they will know. Go by word of mouth. A good horse trader will take you through the entire process. They will not sell you an unsafe or unsound horse because they know full well you will tell everyone about it and they will lose business. Most will take the horse back for any reason at all, including the rider just not getting on with it.
2. A large, *reputable* rescue. Let them find the diamond in the rough at auction, train it, assess it, etc. Like dealers, they have a reputation to keep up with and if you don’t care about breed or looks, but only temperament, soundness and suitability, you’re much more likely to find what you need.
Riding Schools and Camps can be a good place to look. A lot of times they have horses that might not hold up to several hours of daily riding that might be just fine for a beginner who will ride a few times a week. Camps also often unload their horses at the end of the season. Also, you can always post “wanted” ads on places like craigslist, dreamhorse etc.. you may have to kiss a few frogs, but there are horses out there especially in this economy
I’m located in Colorado. My boss has an older (25) leopard Appaloosa that he’s looking to rehome. Unfortunately, we just put his girlfriend down, and my four horses that are out on pasture with him are about to move to my house. He’s been to the mountains numerous times, has been packed, has had little kids climbing all over him. He’s sound, has rock hard feet and literally bomb proof. I’ve tried to spook him and I think it’s impossible. He doesn’t require any kind of age-related maintenance, and he’s very sweet. I don’t want to dump him on anyone and he’s fine where he’s at, but I’m afraid when my horses move he’s going to get lonely and it would do him some good to be around people/kids. Either way, if you are interested you can e-mail me thearcticwoman@yahoo.com
Thank you everyone for all the good advice. And Arcticwoman, I’ll be looking to buy this summer, after I move to Oklahoma. I’ll keep you in mind. Thank you!
PalominoPalOfMine, there are a few good rescues in the OK,TX, AR, MO area I know of- Blaze’s Rescue is one of them in OK, in AR there is Give Me A Chance Horse Rescue and Sallis Ranch, in TX you can contact the Humane Society of North Texas and get referrals to the rescues they work with on horse cases, and in MO, two great ones I have worked with are Longmeadow Rescue Ranch and Renaissance Rescue- both of those are closer to Saint Louis, but they have a variety of horses for a variety of levels, and personally I know LRR works hard to desensitive horses, get them trail ready (we have trails), and will go the extra mile to teach an adopter how to make the most of a relationship with the horse they adopt. So there’s some options for good rescues in the middle midwest.
Ask at 4-H or Pony Club barns. LOTS of 4-H and Pony Clubs have fairly frequent horse-trading going on as the riders move out of the packer horses into higher levels of riding and competition. Often these horses aren’t advertised as “for sale” because they are offered to new members or folks are just waiting around for the current rider to outgrow the mount.
I have found some great horses this way, and the best news is you can get all the scoop on the horse from the other club members and trainers that have been working with them!
Almost all of this advice can be applied to buying __________ from a seller. People need to put the shoe on the other foot and pretend to be the seller and ask themselves if they would want their own time wasted. Respect for the other person. This is what it boils down to.
Unfortunately, we have all run into the wishy, washy tire kicker. Seems there are ALOT of them in the world. (sigh)
I’ve always wanted to ride an upper level dressage horse. You mean it would be wrong to pretend I was in the market in the mid 5-figures to steal a ride? Just ruined my weekend plans. Dam.
Blondemare,
I had to laugh and agree at your statement. I have always wanted to ride a Friesian. My dream horse. I have thought many times of just “pretending” to be able to buy one of these lovely horses and by “pretending”, I would get that ride. The reason I have never done so is pretty much all the reasons in this article. I don’t want to be that rude not-really-able-to-afford-the-horse tire kicker. I hope I will get that ride someday, but it will be with some class, self-respect, and respect of others.
In my experience as an exercise rider, barns where Friesians are focused on driving vs riding, they always are seeking someone to take the time to ride during the off season. Just poke around your area a bit, thats where I found my friesian gig (they found me… but I am sure it would work backwards too) However, thats where I met my first haflinger and fell in love with that breed instead.
Why not just be honest and tell them what you want to do? When I was selling horses, believe me, I would have welcomed people wanting to come out and pay to ride them…would have saved me the trouble and given them more exposure for the people that were seriously coming out to buy! Better they earn money from a paid ride than none at all!
On the other foot, given the economy, at what point does a seller have to concede to a good trade even if doesn’t meet her exact criteria? Should a seller who has come to the end of her resources drink a tall glass of reality Kool Aid and settle for a home that guarantees health, use, care and eventual return of the horse if situations change?
Let’s say I hypothetically raised a foal and spoiled him to death. He got obnoxious and I did nothing about it. Long story short, he came back to me and I cannot handle him. He has bad ground manners and would be dangerous in the wrong hands. He’s at a trainer getting better every day but I’ve been told that he is not the horse for me and must find a new home. His training time is almost up and I need to find him a home right away.
He’s huge, young, gray and he rides quietly. He has low jumper show miles but would benefit from dressage work. I want him to find a good home as I’m very attached and overprotective of him. I’m also out of money and have been told not to bring him home as he will regress. He needs a talented owner in the immediate future. He is free and I’ve been told the only restriction I should put on him is that I be notified when / if he changes hands or is severely injured or ill.
What is a reasonable expectation for “me”? As a ‘buyer’ where would you draw the line on my involvement with my “baby”? What do you think is fair?
This is a real situation and real horse, friend of a friend thing. If anyone fits this ‘buyer’ criteria, leave me your email address. I told myself I was done with this but don’t want to see all the recent progress turn into a needle for this guy.
This sounds more like adoption or re-homing than the classic buy/sell agreement. I would expect that as the “seller” you would not be involved at all unless notified as per the agreement of significant illness, injury, or change in circumstance that requires the return of the horse. As a “buyer” I would write that into the transfer agreement, because I have seen some really obnoxious situations where the original owner couldn’t afford to keep the horse, but since opinions are free (I am sure you can figure out where this is going). Also, one situation that just happened where the original owner gave the horse away due to straitened financial circumstances, and a year later, when re-employed, went and took the horse back saying that it had only been a temporary transfer.
In the absence of a clear, written agreement possession is 9/10 and all that. A year of training, care and love that is now in litigation. Woo, fun.
Not to denigrate your friend, but someone who is capable of allowing the horse to become such a problem, and then unable to keep up the training, is clearly thinking with her heart and not her head, that can get ugly very quickly. Written agreements protect everyone.
Ok, I may have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed today, but please, can people have someone else proofread their work before they submit something for publication? It just turns my mind off their subject when words are missing, theyre is substituted for their, etc etc. I could not read through the mistakes all the way to the end, but thankfully I scanned and saw the survey link. I completed the survey. Thank you.
What barefooter said. Snarkly and Snugly are solid writers; surely they are capable of editing guest posts. I easily forgive comments with the occasional blip, especially since I’m a guilty party. But for the main course attention should be paid.
Amen Sister! I agree with everything and could even add a few things to the post. Currently I have a horse for sale for $3000. If it were summer and the weather were better, I’d be asking $5000 for him. The last two people who came out offered me $1500. If you want a $1500 horse I can find you a cute little paint or an OTTB that isn’t sound, but not a show horse that is also bombproof on trails. The two before that wanted their trainer to come out, blah blah blah. Then there was the woman who had to borrow money from her parents to buy the horse. How was she planning to pay for board? I’ll never know.
I do not sell horses as a business. I think it is worse for a private party to have to deal with lookie-lous and tire kickers. I work all day, rush home to show a horse to someone, and still have to take care of my family before I go to bed. I don’t have anymore time to waste than the person who spends all day at the barn. I’ve also had people show up an hour early to look at a horse. That is so unacceptable. I decided that if that ever happens again they will wait in the car until their scheduled appointment. It really doesn’t matter how much someone is asking for a horse, respect and courtesy and are still respect and courtesy.
I hear ya on the timing issue, but on the pricing, if you follow the market you will know that it is DEAD. People are giving away horses all day long, and yes, some of them ARE good riding horses. I have been offered a bunch of freebies myself the past two years. Be pleased that you got an offer at this point, even if you feel insulted by it.
What kills me is that I go to a lot of sales and people know that horses are at rock-bottom meat market prices but yet they still want top dollar for their tack…? WTF, people?!?!
It’s often suggested to first time horse buyers that they come early to see the horse ‘unpresented’ actually. Like see them tack him up, bring him out etc, prior to ‘show time’ so they can get a feel for the horse’s situation and make sure none of it is doctored up.
I can see the reasons for wanting to arrive early, but an hour is just plain disrepectful. When I get home after working an 8 hour day at my full time job, I’m hungry, I have to change clothes, and the dog has to pee, etc. The horses are in the pasture as they always are. There is also a 30 day guarantee on any horse I sell. If the horse is not as advertised or the buyer changes their mind for any reason, the horse can come back for a full refund. No doctoring going on in my barn!
As someone who has bought horses, I WANT to see the horse caught (how many of us have bought horses only to find out you have to run a half marathon to catch them!), I WANT to see the horse tied and groomed, I WANT to see the horse saddled and then ridden, then unsaddled, groomed again and released.
Buying a horse isn’t just about riding the horse, I want to know if they can be easily caught (or convinced to be caught with grain), if they stand while tied, stand for grooming, pick up all 4 feet easily with no kicking or fuss, do they stand while being tacked up? Or do they move all over the place. How do they accept the bit.
Honestly I have turned and walked away when I saw the horse already saddled and ready to go and the person refused to untack and show me how the horse did. That sends up red flags. And if you are buying a horse in the middle of winter expect some dirt and mud. I will wash off horses legs but im not giving a bath when its 30* out and trying to snow.
As a BUYER you need to expect to spend 2 or so hours looking at the horse and getting a feel for it. If it handles great undersaddle but tries to kill you on the ground you are NOT going to be happy.
If possible, it’s also a great idea for the potential buyers to come out and see the horse being worked on by the farrier/vet. As a farrier, I know a good many horses who are fantastic mounts, but are absolute nightmares to shoe.
Some owners are willing to put the extra time and effort into working with these horses so I can do a good job shoeing, but others don’t think it is their responsibility.
Unfortunatley I don’t have the time to spend training their horses, and I really can’t afford to take time off because of injury so they must pay extra to have the vet come and tranquilize their horses so I can do my work.
Exactly. Not meaning to go all “Pat Parelli” on people here, but I want time to do my “pre-flight” checks before I prepare to pilot.
I agree, I want to see it all. I think, on the theme of ‘etiquette’, it is important for the buyer and seller to communicate ahead of time on what routine the buyer would like to see when they arrive. Although, personally, I don’t think I’d ever sell a horse to someone who just wanted to show up, ride, and leave, with no interest in handling the horse on the ground! When I bought my last horse, I visited him 3 times, and the middle time I didn’t ride at all; just did a thorough grooming and then hand walked him throughout the property.
Yes. At my age and parental status, I’d be looking for a sound, solid steady-Eddie for a chubby middle aged lady/little kid/husband with great ground manners. So I think I’d even tell the seller to leave the horse in the pasture so I could test its catchability.
I don’t WANT to drive up and find the horse tacked up & ready to ride. I DO want to check out its ground manners, catch him, pick out his feet, etc. Grooming would be a bonus, because it would double as a close physical inspection. I’d want to see how the horse reacted to dogs & kids running around.
Then I’d like to see the owner ride it. I would take a video. THEN I would ride it.
If I liked the horse, I’d arrange for a vet check. I’d prefer a trial of a couple weeks, but I also understand if the seller were reluctant.
All that being said, my current horse I got via a few phone calls. HA!
But I DID know he had ringbone, I DID know his former owner, I DID know he was a kind sweetheart because I’d worked with his absolute beginner rider on him at 4H meetings. And he was a freebie…
Sometimes it’s OK to break some rules. But I went into it armed with a lot of info.
I’ll admit to breaking the buyer rules completely on the latest buy. It was simply a case of me looking for a young, cheap horse that I could buy, train and then sell on so when I heard of a pretty little appaloosa gelding down the road that I wouldn’t need to trailer and was only £400 for a 15hh, 5yr old, the only thing I did was pop my head over the hedge, look at the overall conformation and said “I’ll take it.”
But then I knew what I was getting into. I knew he had been stood in a field the majority of his life with no training so there wasn’t any point faffing with the owner and asking what he could and couldn’t do; especially knowing that at that price someone else may snap him up before I did.
I’m willing to break the rules of seeing everything done with a youngster because I know I’m going to take it right back to the beggining and start afresh my way. With an older, ridden horse however, I want to see exactly what I’m buying.
Ditto. I want to see of the have any vices I the pasture or paddock; I want to see if they’re had to catch; are the twitchy and screwy while tied… I don’t want them caught or warmed up, especially warmed up. A lot of soundness issues can dissappear with a warm up.
Besides, if the horse is a conformational train wreck, he or she can just stay in the pasture. It saves everyone some time.
This is my post. Sorry for not giving my name and pardon my poor grammer and spelling errors. I’m not a professional writer. So deal!
Oh and further more, I wrote this on my third day of working a 12 hour shift at my hospital, I was a little tired but needed to get this post out there and off my chest!
lol it’s my bad – I should have edited. I was just completely bagged last night. Oopsies! lol
I don’t think the blog owner should need to edit, just check for appropriate content. The fact that the writer knew she was tired and her piece could be subject to errors is exactly why it should have been reviewed by some other less tired eyes before submitting. What is the rush? Did it have to go right that moment? I am not bashing, I am just trying to raise awareness that the written words are powerful, and if they are not properly put together the power can be very negative – just the opposite of what the writer intends. The writer loses their voice. In my opinion, we all need to slow down and be as thoughtful, deliberate and clear in our communications with each other as we need to be with our horses.
Lol its all good. It is what it is!!
Around here, a stranger couldn’t just go to a barn and test ride a $50,000 horse. You would have to have a trainer make the appointment for you, and it would have to be a big enough trainer to assure the seller you were good for the money. Or, you’d have to be pretty well known in your own right, or from a family like the Fords or Strohs.
Sounds like some folks need to catch up with the times here. I would not allow a trainer to make an appointment for me. I take care of my own business, and sorry if I come off as snarky, but I am a middle aged person who is not an adult kindergarten student who needs a trainer to lead them around by the nose. I see far too much of that happening out there, so maybe people wishing to fetch that kind of money in this market might want to rethink their method of vetting out their buyers.
Don’t forget the “c” word….lots of trainers looking for a commission. It happens every single day. They don’t care if it’s their student buying the horse, they’ll still take a cut of the sale.
This is soooo true and I wish more people would have the common courtesty discussed in this post. (Funny how “common” courtesy and “common” sense are the rarest commodities?)
There is a kid in our small town who has been looking to buy a horse for the past year or so. He responds to practically every ad, posts “I’m getting this horse” and pictures on facebook all the time, even went so far as to take several horses on a trial, and once the horse owners had to get the police involved to get their horse back because he wasn’t paying for it or returning it!!! This kid is 15!!!! What the heck are his parents doing?????
I would like to give this kid a high five…in the face….with a chair, and say “Smarten up!!!”
Ugh, what is wrong with people these days.
Great guest post by the way! (Grammatical errors and all, it only made me sneeze and tear up a little, not cough up blood thankfully!)
Never mind what are his parents doing — what is the SELLER (or sellers) thinking?
You can NOT enter into an enforceable contract with a minor, period. The unpaid seller who got his her horse back is *lucky*. Always ensure you are dealing with an adult; never register a horse *only* in a minor’s name. There are far too many people ready to sue at any opportunity, and an unenforceable contract leaves you and yours at risk.
I had something similar, I had a kid (probably 7-9) email me repeatedly about my Peruvian mares I had listed. One was a very laid back anyone-can-ride kinda girl and the other was an extremely spirited and certainly not for an inexperienced rider type. My prices were about $1,200 and $1,600. The kid emailed me saying that she really wanted them (both of them) but only had $150 or she’d love it if they were free. … …with tack… And I’d love a free friesian and a new barn please!
The best was when I had a horse who came to me with a rearing problem (untreated barbed tooth causing pain) and I got emailed by another little kid (I think 12?) saying she’d really love it if I could give it to her for free and it’s have a good home. She was polite so I replied nicely saying that this wasn’t a kid’s horse and giving her some tips on what to look for or how to talk to her mom about leasing a horse. She replied much less politely that she had asked her mom and been told no, because it was a single mother working two jobs and trying to pay the bills. Then I was annoyed for the poor mother.
There are some great young riders/ buyers out there as well.
Can I ever relate to this rant! Different field entirely but I hate dealing with time wasters, I paint cars/bikes for a living. Custom stuff. I’m busy and don’t have time to be wasted. I cannot count how many people have wanted me to do up designs then don’t get any work done, and I can assure you it is nothing to do with the quality of my work-I’ve painted stuff that has won at shows. I suppose it is on par with the rider with no money wanting to see how the $50,000 horse goes.
I used to wonder if they took the design and got it done someone cheaper, so now they do NOT get to take the design anywhere. I also now charge $50.00 to design anything, if they go ahead and get the work done the $50.00 comes off the total price of the job. After a full day of painting I really don’t want to pull out the sketchbook for another hour or two for nothing, unless it is something I am working on for myself.
Was trying to think of a similar solution to offer in this horsey case but can’t, maybe just jack the price a bit….? I call it “Jerk Tax”
Or charge a ride deposit, refund upon sale, if you seem to have a lot of looky-lous wasting your time.
I agree vis a vis the “design fee”– one of the first things I told a new client who was frustrated because she’d do a design and the client would get corner labor to implement it, cutting her out entirely, was to charge appropriately for her expertise– wrapping it into a whole package to implement the design if she wanted, but load her expertise and experience on the front end.
That being said, part of the business of selling horses is dealing with people who are figuring out what they want and what it is priced at. I’m wondering how many non-buyers are actually out there getting on and off Grand Prix dressage horses with no intention of buying? I assume they don’t test-ride the jumpers because it’s easier to stay on at a collected canter when you don’t know what you’re doing than over a 5′ fence when you’re a pre-green hunter rider.
I have known people who insisted that try-out rides come in the form of a lesson, either with the barn’s coach or with the client’s coach, provided that their coach was reasonably reputable. You could come out, look the horse over and watch it be ridden for free, but you couldn’t actually get on without ponying up some money. Claimed it was for safety’s sake.
That sounds a lot more reasonable to me than trainers making shopping appointments for clients.
OMG! I have the same problem, but with friends who want me to “help” them design their yards. Gee, I do it ALL day 5 days a week, but sure I’ll come out Saturday and we’ll work on it.
But they don’t get someone to implement it! They don’t do anything with it.!!!!!!!!!
Now I charge them $200 and return it to them when they install my design. Now they only ask if they are serious about a new landscape, thank you.
As a proud point of fact, one of my recent design plans prevented my friends house from burning down this fall. Houses burned on either side. Thank you very much.
“OMG! I have the same problem, but with friends who want me to “help” them design their yards. Gee, I do it ALL day 5 days a week, but sure I’ll come out Saturday and we’ll work on it.
But they don’t get someone to implement it! They don’t do anything with it.!!!!!!!!!
Now I charge them $200 and return it to them when they install my design. Now they only ask if they are serious about a new landscape, thank you. ……………………”
Your friends are tire kickers. Parts of your post sound kinda whiney……………………………..if one wants to read it that way. It is all subjective to where a person stands on the ‘being taken advantage’ of issue. You not wanting to help ‘friends’ and charging them 200 bucks is no different that the guest writer complaining of buyers who come out for joy rides.
I can see your point as I can see the point of people who buy/sell horses who get tired of being taken advantage of.
Having sat both sides of the fence as well as having recently made a purchase, I see one thing already that I disagree with on this post: I do NOT want to see a horse already tacked up and ready for me to ride when I arrive at the seller’s barn. That should set off red flags to any buyer. As a seller, it was a waste of my time for no-shows, and as a buyer, that tells me that the horse being shown could be cold-backed or hard to tack, may have already had his hiney lunged off a few hours ago and then left tacked up in his stall with his sweat brushed off. As a buyer, I want to bring out my own horse, tack it, and run him through all the usual prep for riding so I can detect any vices. As a seller, I want my buyer to see what kind of time I have spent on a horse NOT having ground/tacking vices…if they bother to show up, which many do not.
I also have a personal pet peeve as a buyer about buying a horse with shoes on…if the horse is in hard work and current top condition, that can be hard to get around, but for buying a horse a winter I want to see him with his shoes off. (Which I did during my recent purchase.) I want to ride a barefoot horse and get the real feel of how sound he is WITHOUT shoes, and I want the opportunity to examine his feet with my hoof testers, knife and rasp without the impediment of shoes being in the way.
Years ago when I bought horses to ride and resell, I almost never bought a horse with shoes on…horses being run through an auction usually are not in hard use, unless it is a performance horse sale (and even then, buyer beware) and therefore it is much easier to weed out the ones who can pose potential lameness issues. It also makes them easier to resell, because like the buyers I dealt with, I personally don’t want to be spending time, effort and money on shoeing/lameness problems. Any kind of pad under a shoe was an automatic fail and a red flag on my list. This is not to say that over the years I have not put pads on any of my own horses…snowball pads, pads to raise angles, etc…but these are pads to achieve a desired effect and then be cycled out. I still wouldn’t want to see them on a horse for sale, because they can still be an excuse to hide problems…and no, not every seller is going to have radiographs available and ready to view. Radiographs are costly and only good at the time they were taken; they can show long term issues but if something happened the other day, the buyer will be SOL. Same thing for a health certificate: it is only good for the moment the vet is looking at the horse, and he can’t see any potential illnesses that the horse’s system may have just contracted. I left it to my buyers’discretion to buy their own x-rays and health certificates if they wanted to purchase something I had for sale and I expect I have to do the same, as I just did. You cannot know what a buyer is going to want to see or even if they are going to care about certain things, so there is no point getting ahead of oneself. Though a current Coggins is a must…if the seller doesn’t have one and they are offering the horse for sale, I personally question if they have paid attention to any other details with the horse. The horse needs one to legally travel anywhere and any seller should expect to have to pay for and provide that.
I completely agree about ettiquette when it comes to both buying and selling. It’s the buyer’s responsibility to be there on time and be up front and honest about what exactly they are looking for and it’s the seller’s responsibility to be honest about the horse and also accomodating to what the buyer wants to see. If you know that buyer is coming to look at that horse for equitation, that horse had better be willing to do patterns when you ask for them and have good transitions. If the buyer is looking for a kid safe horse, it’s the seller’s responsibility to make sure they are showing that person a horse that is safe for that buyer (based on what they’ve told you of course). And with that, a buyer needs to be upfronnt about their abilities. My horse is not for the faint of heart and I wouldn’t put anyone that hasn’t proven to be capable of riding a tough horse on him, so I try to get very specific when someone comes along and really wants to see him for their junior exhibitor who’s “really experienced”… Specify your definition of experienced. Experienced with push button horses or a horse you have to really ride? There is a huge difference.
I work for a horse trainer and, luckily, we’ve had pretty much only good experiences with buyers. Normally when people come they are looking at a few different horses, so they can choose if they want to look at the horse who may be over their price range, but he’s still ready in case they want to. We normally have the horse standing in the cross-ties and ready for one of us to ride before the buyer (or buyer’s trainer as is the norm for us) rides. That way they can see how the horse is ridden by someone familiar with them.
Sometimes we get requests that are a little bit strange, but we try to accomodate them… within reason.
I’m calling an audible “bullshit”. This is what happens when you want to sell a horse. Get over your bad self, suck it up and deal with it. Big baby. I’m in the market to buy, I”ve at a $20K budget (which, depending on the horse may be the cost of the horse PLUS training) but if some “I-feel-sorry-for-myself-because-I-got-into-the-horse-business-and-didn’t-know-what-to-expect” asswipe says just once about being a “serious buyer”. I’m outta there.
I’m dealing right now with a “this is a nice filly for $2,000,” seller, but now it’s changed and she’s firm at $2,500. And doesn’t know if she’s going to bring her down unless I’m serious when or original intent was to bring horses down from her other ranch for training and this filly was one of them.
I say “Fuck you.” (internally mind you) Keep your $2K/$2.5K filly. I don’t really care how she’s built, what her color is or her breeding. I need to see her and I need a price that I can mull over.
So it goes both ways and I’m tired of listening to how mistreated sellers are. Grow up for pity sake.
Maybe it’s their way of saying that they don’t want to sell you the horse cause you say fuck too much????
Food for thought
Oh gee you’re so smart. That must be it, I wrote “fuck” (one) in a post unrelated to this seller and the seller knew I was going to write it well before I wrote it and decided to teach me a lesson by changing the price and circumstances before I even knew I was going to wrote the above post. Wow. Genius psychic seller.
But I assume too much. I assumed that many or any of you may have been in and around horses for any length of time. Horse sellers and buyers are a flakey bunch. I try to determine IF a horse is a good prospect BEFORE I even take time to go and see a horse. I try to get photo’s. I ask questions, tons of them. And when I finally drive 120 miles, one-way, the horse in question toes out, is posty and has a poopy personality.
I’ve been out there and quite frankly, I’ve been treated poorly for wasting people’s time and for not being serious, when I am genuinely in the market for a horse.
Conversely, I’ve sold many a horse, and dealing with folks who don’t know what they’re doing or are “looky-loos” is just part of the deal. And I’ve probably been talked about because I refused to sell horses to folks who should save a horse or who I thought shouldn’t have the particular horse I had for sale, but I don’t care.
Maybe the owner felt like they needed to ask more if you were going to expect them to trailer her somewhere.. is there no chance to see the horse where it is now? Sometimes the wishy washy seller hasn’t 100% committed to selling the horse too.. maybe a little regret at even putting it up for sale? I also recall the loads of people looking for a “deal” who expected a Rembrandt for the price of a movie poster! If you truly have 20,000 to spend, you would probably be better served looking at horses closer to that value (maybe just need some brushing up) instead of trying find a bargain that ultimately may/may not pan out for what you are looking to do with it.
Fear not, she only says it internally. And, externally on blogs.
As someone who has bought and sold their fair share of horses (and houses and cars.. etc). I do have a few comments about this process.
1. I understand that if you have only $5K that looking at a $50K horse is ridiculous, but you should look at horses a little bit above your range. It is not uncommon for someone to pad their price expecting to have to come down. It has also happened that a seller may like you and what you plan to do with the horse and be willing to sell for a (somewhat) lower cost. For example, a breeder may be more interested in getting their new bloodline in the show ring and may give you a break if that is your use for the horse.
2. Taking your trainer with you can be expensive and unrealistic depending upon your situation. For every looky loo buyer there is a seller who is overselling what they have in the pasture. It is not unreasonable to expect to show the horse on more than one occasions to the same buyer. The buyer might want to come out first to see if what you have is worthy of their trainer’s time. If they don’t get along with the horse.. hate the color, whatever, it is cheaper as the buyer to find that out without having to pay for a trainer’s time .. every time. Generally if they are saying they have to go back and ask their trainer.. they probably didn’t fall in love with what you have to sell. The other reason they don’t return is quite often the trainer has horses in their own barn that they try to steer their clients to.. so yours probably didn’t have the best of a chance anyway.
3. It is fine to look at horses outside your discipline if they are reasonably assured of being suitable for your discipline. An ex reiner would be a potential team penner or trail riding companion. However, realize that not all horses can be trained to do all things well, so finding a horse with the natural tendency and some training towards your desired use will serve you best in the long run.
4. I would be realistic about your budget and needs. I had way to many buyers come out to see my 2500 dollar 1/2 arab, 1/2 quarter horse cross and be super disapointed it wasn’t an “A” circuit mount. I did not advertise it as such and for that money you got a nice little pony suitable for 4-H shows and lessons and she did enjoy jumping. It actually did turn out she went to some rated shows with the eventual buyer and did well… so those that couldn’t see her potential did lose. But do not expect to buy a “diamond” for 1500 dollars.. you can get a lot of nice horses at that price, but expecting to get your next Olympic prospect is just wasting the seller’s time!
Other than that, I agree that honest communication by both sides should be expected. If you can’t make it, let people know because they may be taking off from work to show that horse.. or driving miles to meet you. So don’t let them down.
While it would be nice to go and the horse is ready to get on and ride, personally I would rather go and the horse is still in the field (it can be reasonably clean under a rug) so I can see whether it catches easily, I want to see how it behaves being lead into the stable, how well it stands for grooming. Muddy legs wouldn’t bother me that much – that’s what the vetting is for. If you have to run your hands down muddy legs, I’m sure they’ll have somewhere to wash your hands after, it’s horses, you get dirty. I want to see how the horse behaves to be tacked up etc.
If I was coming back for a second viewing with a trainer or the vet then yup, having the horse in and clean is a bonus but otherwise I want to see how the horse behaves outside of being sat on.
Other than that I think this post raises some excellent points, a buyer often expects sellers to jump through the hoop for them but a buyer also has responsibilities, things like you said such as turning up on time or at least letting the seller know you’ve been held up, being honest etc.
Ehhh… I’m of two minds on this.
Yeah, nobody likes to have their time wasted. The solution to this is simple; explain that because you want to ensure that both horse and buyer are a good fit for each other, you have a “two visit minimum.” The buyer needs to visit the horse on two different days before purchase, and test-rides only happen on the second visit. Use words like, “safety,” “don’t want you to rush,” “give you time to think,” “really get to know the horse” etc. Not only is that responsibly ensuring that horse and buyer will be a good fit, it discourages time-wasters who just want a free ride on their first visit.
But how do you know the difference between a “joy rider” and someone who is truly trying to find the best horse to suit their needs? Whenever I’ve looked for a horse, I’ve spent hours looking, asked 72,000 questions and test rode at least once. I’m sorry if that was an inconvenience, but it’s necessary. Buying a horse is only slightly less life-changing than adoption– and as expensive. If the animal turns out to be a bad fit, you are going to be the one responsible for re-selling it to a good home, re-training it or continuing to board and feed your mistake. Hasty decisions are not a good idea. And if you happen to get an idiot looking at your horses, when those horses are way beyond the person’s price range and skill, well…you might just want to step up and educate someone. I wish someone had done that for me.
Once as a young, scruffy teen I went to a big horse auction. There was a really gorgeous QH there, beautifully groomed and tacked, surrounded by admirers. I didn’t know much about anything at that point except that I wanted to buy a horse, and so I timidly asked the handler the only question I knew to ask: “Does he trail ride well?” The whole group laughed at me. Later in the ring, that horse (a reining champion) sold for thousands of dollars. Over the loudspeaker, while talking about this very valuable horse’s achievements, the handler made a joke of my question. I felt completely awful.
I didn’t mean to ask about a horse way out of my price and talent range. I didn’t know better. I didn’t have anyone to tell me better. I wish someone HAD told me better.
Get in line behind the rest of us! Don’t think you’re the only one who’s made a horse faux pas and embarrassed yourself. The first time I went to ride what turned into my QH stud 13 years later, his trainer said ‘you sure you know how to ride?’ Of course I did and hopped right up there. I thought I did pretty well for myself until the trainer shook his head at me in disgust. I didn’t know then what I did ‘wrong’ but I know now. I ended up riding under this guy for 2 years bur humiliation is like glue and I’ll never forget that day.
*but*
Sounds to me like the handler was a real piece of shit themselves. Had they never heard of cross-training? I happen to know a horse who was quite the reiner in his time AND he is excellent on trails. Sounds like they’ve narrowed their selling field too much to me…trail riding is a great way to keep a horse from getting sour in their usual discipline.
I think a certain number of “looky lous” are to be expected. However, that being said, I would NEVER go look at a $50,000 show horse that I could not afford. That is just RUDE!
Agree that I want to see the horse caught from the field, tied, groomed, tacked up, and RIDDEN before I even think about stepping foot in a stirrup myself. I have looked at horses where the owner refused to ride the horse or was scared to canter it. If YOU aren’t going to ride it, I certainly am not going to risk my neck to ride an unknown horse.
What burns me are the ads for horses that say “bring your trailer if you want to look”, blah, blah, blah. Unless the horse is a long distance, I don’t bring the trailer to avoid making an “emotional” decision. Selecting a horse is much like dating. You aren’t going to marry the first person you date and you are looking for a riding “partner” so not every horse is going to be a good fit for you (temperament, training, personality, looks, etc.). If I expect to keep the horse until it dies, I certainly don’t want to make a bad choice.
Yet another who does not want the horse ready when I get there. Ground manners are super important for me.
I had good experiences when I was a buyer. One of the best was when I flew from MA to VA to look at a horse, and the owner not only trailered it to a farm close to where I was staying, but the owner of that farm brought out a couple of *her* sales horses to try. Horse #1 was too green for me, but horse #2 would have been great, except someone else already had a deposit on her. Seller was up-front with me about that, said she was giving the potential buyer a week to make up their mind… That one was sold out from under me, sigh.
When I bought my horse, the owners had her out in the field and they encouraged me to catch her, lead her, groom her etc. They didn’t have anything to hide and they knew it. The horse did turn out to have some issues but I am sure the owners didn’t know about them at the time. I paid too much for her; she was priced fairly for where the market had been a year before and I just didn’t know any better (and didn’t really understand that I could negotiate on price. Yes, I was a newbie!)
It sounds like selling is much worse than buying.
Recently looked at a horse “out of our price range” — oh and we bought her, lol
here’s a cute misunderstanding from the seller to my teenage daughter. He wanted her to have the horse collect so he is telling her to “Shoe Shine” he mentions this a couple of times but does not see her hands move. I finally tell him she has never heard that term before and that she has never seen shoes shined but she was trying really hard to rub her boots along the horse’s sides thinking that is what he meant. He laughed so hard.
I have a great recent “horse sale” story to share.
At my barn is a 9 year TB gelding who has arthritis in one knee therefore he will not be up to hard riding but will probably be OK for lower level dressage. The vet actually said that his prospects are pretty good with some joint injections.
So we advertise him for a low price (enough to keep the KB at bay), as a light ride/pet project.
One of the people who responds to the ad says that he is exactly the horse she is looking for and she would like to take him. She plans on coming to see him on a Thursday, and then pick him up on Saturday.
On Thursday #1, she gets into a car wreck
Thursday #2, mom gets cancer
Thursday #3 stuck in traffic
Finally she says she will come out on a Saturday. We wait, we wait, we wait…..we go home. She says that she came at 6:30 and no one was there (barn closes at 5:30- she was told this)
Then there are a few email exchanges, about how she is now not so sure, and her mom is really sick. And then silence. It’s been three weeks.
Basically, this dummy caused someone to come out and wait for her on four separate occasions! I believe she probably made up all the excuses.
This is what makes all of us who sells horses so darned “whiny” LOL
Great story, and I tell you, it’s not just horse buyers. I work in a lot of difference offices as a contractor, and my radar goes on high alert when someone has repeated life crises. This is not to say that car wrecks, cancer, traffic, sick kids, house fires, vomiting dogs, floods, and broken alarm clocks don’t happen, but there are certain people for whom the sheer quantity of drama seems a tad…well, a tad inconvenient for those of us expecting them to be somewhere and do something at a particular time, time after time.
I had a woman stand me up for four appointments due to non-described emergencies. Finally she just showed up hoping I was home. I had been riding the sale horse when she showed and she bought him on the spot.
She was an ER doc in a small town hospital and the emergencies were real.
There is a good story for every bad one. I say suck it up and focus on the good.
And for you, ‘suck it up’ is just fine. It’s also fine to feel like people should have a little bit of respect for the time you’re taking to show them the animal they are interested in purchasing, as the guest blogger does. Not everyone can take repeated days off work to show a horse for someone who keeps rescheduling over and over, and frankly, they shouldn’t have to.
It really doesn’t take a lot of effort to be thoughtful of the time someone is putting into showing you the horse, any more than it takes a lot of effort for a seller to be prepared for you when you come at your appointed time, and for them to have paperwork ready and be ready to spend some time with you and the horse.
I’m not sure why it seems like such a difficulty and strain to just be polite.
Exactly this.
And not only that but if someone is re-scheduling over and over, wouldn’t it make you wonder if they really ought to be buying a horse? It’s not like you can explain to old Neddie that you didn’t stop by to feed him yesterday because of a family crisis. Maybe that’s just me but when I sell my current project, I want to be sure he’s going to a good home and not some flake who’ll let him stale in a field, neglect him or just pass him on in a few weeks time.
Someone did similar to me over a saddle I sold them on Ebay…it has made my disclaimer list on my listings very long now, but now they know exactly what will and will not be tolerated. My policies were way too lax before and that won’t happen again.
Here are my horse-shopping experiences.
Horse #1: 2 hrs away, crossbred, 6yr old mare.
What I was told on the phone: Horse has been under saddle for 1 year, 15.3, very willing, quick learner.
What I found when I got there: Cute horse, 15 hh (if that), friendly but would not let you touch her back feet (aimed at your head). Under saddle for one year included 8 mos hiatus when owner’s trainer had to go overseas for awhile. “But she’s been ridden daily for most of the summer…”
It was a pretty fancy dressage barn. Since they had 2 others in my price range I could also try that day, I did ride this mare while they brought the next one up from the pasture. But I decided it was time to go when I heard the BM (early 30s) and the teenage-trainey girls snarking to one another in German about my lack of skills. I am sure they didn’t think I could hear.
Horse #2: 2 hrs away, purebred/papered, 8 yr old gelding.
What I was told on the phone: Horse belonged to older gentleman who used the horse daily at feedlot. Doesn’t have fancy training, but he’s good-minded and will do anything asked.
What I found when I got there: Horse was underweight by at least 150lbs; he was skinny enough that I felt bad to try him out, so I didn’t. It also looked like he had a skin infection across his back where the saddle would go (sticky pus on the hair). Was told weight loss due to low-level on the pecking order / he’s depressed because he misses his previous owner. Horse did not like having his mouth touched. I passed. About a month later, I saw the horse had been consigned to a nearby auction. Wondered if that was where they got him in the first place.
Horse #3: 2 hrs away, purebred/papered, 9 yr old gelding.
What I was told on the phone: Horse had a past history of lesson work and trails. Good tempered but not a fancy guy. Very bombproof. 15.3hh.
What I found when I got there: Horse in good shape, very personable, good manners, seemed of good mind too. But he was only 14.3hh. He had a very big wheezing cough from time to time. I passed.
Horse #4: 2 hrs away, purebred/papered, 9 yr old mare.
They seemed surprised that I said No on her. One of the trainers there mused ‘maybe it’s the new bit, d’ya think?” So much for Miss ‘fun’ mare. Yike. Glad I have always been a helmet rider.
What I was told on the phone: Horse is expertly trained and has several years showing / jumping experience. Boy is she ‘fun’!
What I found when I got there: Horse just a bit lean in my opinion, but very attractive mare. Caught easily, good ground manners–except that you couldn’t touch her feet. She also pinned her ears much of the time, but didn’t do anything past that. This one I rode–after the owner longed her for 30 minutes, then rode her for another 30 minutes prior to my getting on. They said, “She’s a little bit hot,” and they weren’t kidding. I rode her for about an hour and she did not tire at all. But she was clearly above my intermediate riding level and wanted me to know it. There were bucks; there were several semi-emergency slow-into-a-circle stops too. On the upside, we cleared a 3 foot oxer like it was nothing. That was when I got off, because it wasn’t on purpose
Now in all of these cases I spent quite a bit of time on the phone chatting with sellers to get as much accurate info and to describe my skills and wants as best I could before I went out, especially because of the drive (all these horses were in various suburbs of this same city, about 2 hrs from me). But even so, I felt that these sellers were very inaccurate for whatever reason. And many of their oversights, were in my view, immediate deal-breakers–like a horse who won’t let you touch his feet, for example. Or being 150lbs underweight. Yes, I did ask these questions before I left!
But oh well. My view of this is it’s annoying, but it’s just like buying a used car–you have to wade through lots of ‘No’s to get to the ‘Yes’. Only one of these horses, by the way, was from an ad (the first mare)…the rest were via contacts through friends.
I did go out by myself to try all of these horses and since this I’ve decided I’ll always take someone with me from now on who can ask all the questions I forget to ask, or spot something I don’t see.
I am still pretty grumpy about the dressage barn where the BM and the girls there made jokes about my riding; I wonder if the horse’s owner had been present if she would have realized that tipped the scale away from me even considering any of her other horses… sheesh.
Isn’t it amazing when they assume we don’t ever speak or understand anything but English?
Too bad buyers can’t just say ‘show me the horsefax’ and eliminate seller games. Embelishing a horse’s height is a pet peeve of mine. Seriously people, take out the $2 tape and measure the horse. Not everyone is looking for BIG and if they are, you’ve just wasted their time and your own. You can’t hide height so why lie?
I don’t think people intentionally embellish height. I really, honestly think that the majority of horse people have no clue how to assess it by eye…and yes, they can tape (or stick, sticks are better), but a lot of people are convinced their 13.2 pony really is 15 hands. They genuinely believe it.
Riding instructors would do everyone a favor if they taught kids how to eyeball horse height like mine did with endless drilling. I’m not as accurate as a stick, but I’m as accurate as a tape
.
People do embellish the height of their horses. Sometimes it is intentional, sometimes not. A few years back I was selling a 14.3 hand QH that was built like a tank. I advertised him as 14.3 and stocky. I had a family come out and they couldn’t believe how big he was. They admitted they were looing for a pony for their kids, and since people always exaggerate how tall the horses are, they figured ours would be a pony when they showed up.
A friend of minehas two 15 hand horses. She swears they are 15.3 because they were sold to her as 15.2 and that is what she has always assumed 15.2 looks like. My horses is 16 hands to the hair. People swear he is 17 hands, but he’s not. They are just used to people with 16 hand horses saying they are taller. Not really sure why.
LOL it’s like guys on dating sites! Wait… I wouldn’t know about that… I never go on those.
I have a friend like that. Swears her horse is about 16.2hh. Now I know what a 16.2hh horse looks like – I loaned one for many years and there is no way he is as tall as that mare. We were riding one day and she happened to ride her horse up next to our 15.2hh ex-foxhunter and there couldn’t have been much more than an inch difference. My friend’s horse is 15.3hh, 16 at a push. Why she continues to try and big up her horse when the evidence is so clear i’ll never know.
On a sidenote, 15.2hh ex-foxhunter was advertised as 14.2 – 15hh. We turned up expecting this ragged, 18yr old pony and were pleasently surprised to find such a stunning, tall, flaxen gentleman. He probably hadn’t actually been measured by his owner of 14 years since he was a colt.
I agree. I basically do what your friend does (but with rescues, and on a very small scale) and I really DON’T appreciate it when you call 15 minutes before your appointment and say that you won’t be able to make it. REALLY? You couldn’t have called an hour ago, before I groomed the horse up, or moved all the tack closer to the riding area? Thanks.
I also really like the part about being honest about your riding ability. This, to me, is really important. I care about the horses I sell (as I assume most people do), and I don’t want to sell you a horse that will be too much for you. When I say intermediate to experienced rider, that does not mean that your 10 year old daughter whose only question is “does she go FAST?!” would be a good match.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
The woman I work for buys and sells horses, though its mostly trail horses and nothing super fancy to boot, mostly in the $800-2000 range. If someone makes an appointment, we bring up the horse groom him up, and then pull in our horses as well. If they don’t show up on time with no notification we hit the short trails and throw the horse back into the pasture leaving a note to wait until we come back. If they are serious, they stay and make small talk with the rugged old man that lives on the property (aka her husband) if they aren’t they usually leave and we never hear from them again.
I would really like to try out a $50,000 horse, the idea of doing so never crossed my mind.
I agree that courtesy is important for both buyer and seller, but there’s nothing wrong with with a buyer looking a couple thousand out of their price range. That’s what negotiation is all about. I’ve sold horses for less than advertised simply because I knew the horse would be ridden by a rider that would be happy with the horse and they both would be a good advertisement for me. I’ve also refused to sell horses because the fit was wrong or it wasn’t a rider I respected.
There’s also nothing wrong with ‘tire kicking.’ I tell people repeatedly, even people who have purchased horses from me, do NOT buy the first horse you look at, ALWAYS go back for a second look, and never, EVER, take the trailer horse shopping with you. If you’re a buyer who’s insulted by all that, I question whether you’re only looking for a sale, or are you hoping to match the horse up with a satisfied owner.
That kind of tire kicking I’m also fine with. It’s the kind where they spend hours going back and forth through emails or calls, or if they have to sell their horse first or they know they cant buy right now…. Or they come out just for fun. If you’re serious about the horse, then ask questions, come out multiple times, bring a trainer, get a vet check- that’s all great. It’s when they aren’t at all serious that I consider them ‘tire kickers’.
I can’t possibly afford to own a horse at this time but lease one.. yes. When I look at a horse to lease, I treat it just as if I was looking to buy. I do not waste an owner’s time if I know I can’t afford the price they are asking. If they didn’t list a price, I will ask, if it’s too high then I’ll politely thank them for the time they took to respond to me and continue on my way.
When I go to look at a horse, I do NOT want him already there and saddled up and ready to go. Nope. I actually just went to look at a horse today and the owner mentioned she’d have him all ready to go for me – whoa hold on! I told her not to worry about it. I want to see the horse caught, I want to see how he handles on the ground, I want to see him stand in the cross ties.. Grooming, tacking up, is he a pain in the ass to bit? Will he stand on crossties for more than a couple minutes while I fiddle about with whatever? Ground manners are just as important to me as how a horse rides. I work with horses – mostly thoroughbreds – who have pretty crappy ground manners. One threatens and bites, one pins his ears, threatens, and sometimes kicks, one is damn near uncatchable, BOLTS when released in the field, and loses her shit over anything touching her legs ever, one pins her ears and makes ugly faces but doesn’t follow through, one of the standardbreds bites.. I do not want to have to put up with the same shit I put up with at work. I won’t do it.
And when he’s all ready to go? I want the owner to hop on first. I don’t care about how he looks, really – I don’t show. I just want to see that he really isn’t absolutely batshit crazy. Just a few times around in either direction at all gaits and then I’ll hop on and do the same. I don’t ride the horse for long when I’m just trying them out – I just want to see how they move and how they react to leg and hands. Go around a couple times in either direction at all gaits and then he can go in and get untacked and released.
I do want to see the entire process, though. That’s for leasing, not even buying. If I was buying, I’d insist on seeing EVERYTHING.. Clipping, loading, bathing (unless it was too cold, of course..), everything..
I’m assuming that the people saying it’s just part of selling have only sold one maybe two horses. Yes, people are rude and obnoxious but that doesn’t mean that they should be. When you get hundreds of terribly rude people over the years it becomes more than a little annoying.
I have cut vacations short, driven home late at night because some nice sounding people could only make it out the next morning. I woke up early, cleaned the pasture, groomed the horse and got everything set out and guess what? They never showed up; no phone call, no text. That is my pet peeve. I don’t even care if you cancel, but please contact me in some form, any form, and let me know. Preferably before our appointment so I don’t waste my entire day. Or if you’re going to be late, let me know, don’t just assume I have nothing better to do than wait hours to see if you show up. I would never do that to someone.
I’m fine with people bringing trainers (they never do though), I’m fine with vet checks and multiple visits and thousands of questions. What I am not fine with, is people who bring a dozen of their friends or family members, have every single of one them ride, have the horse preform beautifully, and then hear them say they just wanted to ride a horse. (Yes, this has happened.)
Calling and talking for hours just ‘to talk’ to someone when you have no intent of buying the horse is also rude.
I am also wary of doing trials, why? Because I’ve had people return my horse(s) a necrotic mess after they have undone months of work. Not that I want the horse to stay with people like that, but still. I’ve had people get mad that I didn’t hold a horse for them, I never said I would (there were other people who showed up while they were there!) and they didn’t put a deposit. They screamed at me and offered me more money when I told them the other people had put a deposit down. As a seller it would have been very rude of me to accept that, and I have plenty of complaints about sellers as well. If you put a deposit down and are unable to follow through for a good reason, within a reasonable amount of time, I will pretty much always return your money. If you know you’re serious and want someone to hold the horse, put a small deposit on it.
Trying to down talk the horse’s price before ever seeing the horse, or offering me an insultingly low price and saying that the market sucks, just makes me reply with a snarky comment. If you have no intention of paying anything close to my asking price, don’t wast my time. If you want a three hundred dollar horse, then buy one of those. If you can’t find any like the one I’m selling in that price range, then take a hint. There is still a market for a well trained horse with a good ad and nice pictures.
Also, please represent your abilities fairly and get a vet check! I try to be as honest as possible, but I can still miss things so if you’re buying a horse sight unseen, then get a good vet check and blood work done. You would be amazed how many people don’t cough up the cash to get a vet check. I’m amazed at how many people buy SUS and then complain that the horse isn’t responding the exact same way it did for me. It’s a horse not a car.
Ugh. Sorry just had to rant. It is part of the job, but that doesn’t mean we have to like it!
Loved this post by the way.
So, after reading the comments… is this “free-riding” really a thing? Do people actually pose as buyers just to be able to ride a horsey? Perhaps it’s naivete, but that would never cross my mind as a way to ride (and I don’t currently have a rideable horse). I think I would suck it up and come up with the 50 bucks for a lesson. Geez.
Is the “free-riding” thing for real? OMG yes. We haven’t sold a horse in several years, but back when we were selling fairly frequently, we got this all the time. You could generally get a clue that it was going to be a joy-ride instead of an assessment of the horse when the pretend buyer showed little interest in the horse prior to getting on it. They would pet it, but clearly were not looking at conformation, legs, hooves, nothing. We always rode the horse first, but they just wanted to get on. We’ve taken people who were supposedly interested in one of our horses for a trail-ride at their request. After they get done riding the horse for an hour or more, it’s “ok thanks!” and off they go, never to be heard from again.
We also always asked folks if they wanted to be here when the horse was caught, or if they wanted the horse tacked and ready. There are some folks that have their horses in rent barns that apparently have “people” to catch the horse (not real difficult in that the horse is in a stall), groom, tack it up and all. Those folks just want the horse groomed, tacked and ready to ride. So if you’re selling, it’s a good idea to ask.
I really didn’t get any tone of whining from the OP. And yes, the call for honesty and courtesy goes both ways because we’ve also driven hours to see a horse that ended up being nothing remotely like what was advertised. The best was the barrel horse that would not, and I mean would not, turn to the right. It would run into the fence before making a right-hand turn. The owner rode the horse first, everything was to the left. We rode the horse and encountered this interesting problem, the owner said she did not know why the horse did that, she never had that problem, so we invited her to please remount the horse and show us. She declined, saying she just didn’t have time that day. We were less than happy with that experience/waste of time and gasoline.
I’ve never sold a horse, but I’ve put partial leases on mine before, and people come out to test ride with no intention of leasing a horse at all. It is frustrating, so I can’t imagine what it would be like with tons of work and money on the line. For me, showing my horse for a potential lease means I have to take a day, get her pretty, ride her for the person for a half hour, watch someone ride her, etc. So finding out someone doesn’t actually have the ability to lease after the fact is annoying. People also come out with the intention of trying to get you to free lease your animal too, even if you have stated you need at least some financial compensation. I’ve had to explain many times that I ride at least 3 days a week, so I didn’t want someone to lease because my horse wasn’t getting attention, it was because a little money is helpful. I’m going to have surgery soon, so I actually will be free leasing my horse for the month were I am out of commission, to the mutual benefit of all parties, but that is a rare situation.
Yes, they do, at least they do around Chicago. So guess what, Chi-Town suburbanites? Your cover has been blown!
Getting back to the pound of flesh I got from my faking buyer who played “pony ride” for hours of my time…she turned up a few years later in a very unexpected circumstance. I had just bought a copy of our local Truck Trader magazine and saw a truck I just HAD to have. You know the the type…all the bells and whistles on a conversion turbo diesel dually, fully rigged to haul, 40,000 miles on it and at a price I could actually afford. I hauled ass to that seller, saw the truck, test drove it, and made out a bill of sale and a cash deposit on the spot till I could get the rest from the bank. Got along real well with the seller, so spent about the next hour and a half just shooting the shit and enjoying company of someone else who appreciates fine vehicles, but had to sell this one because he had gotten out of going camping with his RV. So lo and behold, who should show up to look at this truck but my phony horse buyer from a couple of years back…she had made an appointment to see the truck but, of course, she was late, being due a half hour before I even got there! She got snippy with the seller of the truck, saying she had an appointment first with him but she had a “riding lesson” that ran late! Imagine that! Asked me what I was doing there and I had the pleasure of telling her “I just bought the truck!” She replied that she wanted to see it and I said sure, go ahead, have a look…I’ve bought it and paid cash for it, but you sure can have a look and maybe you’ll have a better idea of what you are looking for next time.
She then tried to offer the seller a little more money to back me out of the deal, but he wasn’t having any more of playing games with her and sure wasn’t going to go back on the bill of sale he had already signed with me. She sure stormed off in a huff!
I sincerely hope she reads this blog so I can tell her it was the truck of a lifetime and I enjoyed it VERY much, and it was made the more priceless to me by my seeing her get her due paid back in full plus interest.Every time I think of it I also picture her shocked face and dropped jaw when she realized just how much her wasting of other people’s time finally cost her, and I get a shit-eating grin from it every time. I hope every other barn/horse seller whose time she has wasted has the same karma come to visit as I did. What goes around can sometimes really come back around!
To answer your question HildyPie, in my experience it has happened more than I would like it to happen. I have even had someone tell me that they call up sale barns to test ride their horses for fun. I was shocked and couldn’t believe someone would be so inconsiderate. It’s part of the reason that brought me to this post. You would be surprised how often you will find young people who just want to ride nice horses for fun but have no intention of buying them and don’t want to pay for a lesson. Further more, the comment of $50,000 horses for sale well, they’re all over the place where I live but I would never think twice about test riding one of them with no intention of buying them.
If you really, really want to ride and really don’t have the money for your own horse or as many lessons as you want, then…
Why not volunteer at a local rescue? (I would, but I can’t get to any of them). If you actually can ride and love riding all kinds of different horses, then rescues need people to get horses straight for adoption all the time. (I really wish I had the logistical capability to get into rehabbing horses with a rescue or on my own. i LOVE fixing problems).
EXACTLY!!!
Thats what I have done now. I volunteer at a rescue where I get the pleasure of retraining our horses and helping them get adopted!! Its become a family outing now. I ride while my hubby cleans stalls and the baby watches safely from his pack n play!!! It’s always a great productive day at the rescue!!!
The quality of writing and clarity of thought on this blog continues to canter downhill with this post.
Networking and making contacts are essential in the horse business, and *any* person who wishes to try out a horse for sale should be treated with respect and sincerity, as that’s the only way to get the same type of treatment in return, with bonus points of building a great reputation as a seller.
Good salespeeople seek to understand their customers’ different needs and aspirations. The writer and her friend sound like they just want everyone to be ‘their kind of people’. Jeez, wouldn’t it be nice if everyone did everything just the way we wanted them to. Someone trying a $50k horse today might well genuinely want the horse but unable to afford it. They might well be back in 5 years for another $50k horse though when they have that sort of money together. But they will go back to the place that treated them with respect, not the place that sneered at their aspirations.
My ads say ‘tyre-kickers welcome, I love any opportunity to talk about my horses’.
I apologize for my lack of writing skill but I don’t know how I couldn’t be anymore clear.
Yes we are a social network here in the equine world but this post is about respect and etiquette which from a lot of the negative responses those people do not have. Further more you are damn sure I’m going to drag your name through the mud as someone who comes to “test ride” my horses without the intention of buying.
It’s unacceptable to waste someones time. Bottomline. There is no gray area around it. If you’re jaded because someone screwed you over and you chose to accept that kind of behavior then please go right ahead but my time is just as valuable as yours. No person on this entire god for saken earth is better than another. With that being said, if someone wants to call me for a joy ride then fine, be honest about it and I’ll charge you for your little joy ride. But if you’re going to be sneaky and go behinde my back with ill intentions then you can go find another barn to screw with! I don’t have time for people like that. Hit me up on Facebook if you want to talk about my pretty ponies!!
So yes, you can assume right, I do want my buyers to be like me and my friend. Respectful, classy and professional!!!
Respectful?
(seriously……)
So true!! Didn’t we learn ANYTHING from Pretty Woman when she went back into that store with tons of money to rub it in the salesgirl’s face?
I have seen this happen in the horse world. Think of all the people you know who have two horses – one old one that they bought 10 yrs ago for $2500, and one they bought 4 yrs ago for $25,000? Sometimes, as people progress in their riding over the years, a more expensive horse becomes a higher priority and they budget to make it happen even if they couldn’t/wouldn’t a few years ago.
I love your “tire kickers welcome” statement. I am the same way with my horses, whether they’re for sale or not! Three reasons:
ONE, when someone rides a horse of mine and says “oh… my… GOD…” and then goes and tells their friends good things about my training, that’s a good thing for me.
TWO, there are people in the world who are nice, talented riders, but have not and may not ever have the opportunity to ride a nice quality, well trained horse. That can discourage people into quitting riding! I was finishing up a ride once when an 11 yr old boy, who I’d seen ride before and was pretty solid for his age, asked “what does it feel like to ride a horse like that?” I said, “Hop on and find out!” and put him up there! He was so surprised, and had a blast taking the horse for a 15 minute spin, trying some different movements that he’d never been able to try on a horse that really knew them. I love sharing my passion with others, and if I can give someone a little taste of what it can feel like, who knows what kind of difference that could make in their riding ambitions.
THREE, when I see others ride my horse, it teaches me about my horse. It’s helpful for me to see how he might respond differently to different types of riders who do things in a way that I don’t. I recently sold a horse that I thought was so easy a monkey could ride him. I was wrong! I learned that he demands a rider who can sit still, carry themselves in a light and balanced way, and is coordinated enough to use soft but direct aides. The horse was under the impression that every little movement the rider does is a cue for him to respond to – otherwise they’d just sit still (which is how it should be!). I let a rider, who THOUGHT she was a quiet rider, get on him, and he was all over the place. Few steps were quick, then slow, then quick, then crooked, inconsistent connection, etc. I had to give her a lesson on carrying her body and being more aware of herself, and helped her realize she was actually directing him to speed up, slow down, throw his haunches to the side, etc. Then I went home and made a few changes to my sale ad, and made sure other potential lookers knew he demanded a rider of that capability!
Then get out of horses. You can complain all you want about lack of proper etiquette, but all it does is give you heartburn and annoy people with your whining.
It actually doesn’t matter what you’re selling, dogs, furniture, cars, jewelry, you name it, it’s all the same. The majority of folks are flakey.
Dude, seriously, who peed in your coco puffs this morning???
Whiners like you.
Several years ago I had a horse for sale, a well bred, well trained sorrel quarter horse. This was back before all the internet sales sites, so I made some flyers and hung them up at fairgrounds and feed stores, and took out a “nickle ad”.
The mare was 14.2 and had a classic, bulldog build. The first caller asked me how high she could jump cause she was looking for a jumper for her daughter. While this mare could indeed jump, she was cutting bred, not jumping bred and not likely to go where her daughter wanted to take her. I told the lady the horse wasn’t for her. Then I got a call from a gal who wanted to know, first thing, if this red AQHA mare would throw color… I told her the horse was not for her. A dozen more phone calls along these lines, and some folks sounded promising enough on the phone that I let them come out and look at her. They showed up, we brought my horse in, they helped me brush and saddle her then I rode her. All the while they were telling me how much they liked her, how sweet and gentle she was, how well she would fit into their family… Then the wife got on and rode her and it was not a pretty thing – she flopped all over the place and my little mare, adept at packing around kids, was reluctant to move past a walk. She gets off the horse and starts telling me her husband is going in for back surgery he following week. They really want the mare, but want me to take $1k less than my asking price, oh, and could I take payments because money will be tight while he recuperates from surgery because he will be out of work and she is a stay at home mom. Sorry, horse no longer for sale… Two more similare meetings with folks who sound good on the phone, but a bit more prodding and i’m not selling my horse to them. I pretty much forgot about selling her, when a few weeks later I received a call from a guy who is really interested in her breeding. I tell him all of the bad stuff as well as the good stuff. He comes out, he looks her all over, picks up her feet, checks out her legs – doesn’t miss a blemish. I ride the mare, his wife rides the mare and he says we want her, and “will $500 cash be enough for you to hold her until Saturday?” He showed up on Saturday with the other $3000 cash (he never haggled about the price, he was getting a good deal and he knew it), he was driving a truck/trailer that probably cost more than my house. I was so glad I waited until the right buyer came along, regardless of the fact that a lot of people wasted my time.
I’m not a horse trader, but I do buy and sell horses. It is very important to me that the horses I sell go to the right people, to give everyone the best chance to be happy with the sale.
♥ this
I’d just like to say from the viewpoint of a recent buyer I’d rather NOT have the horse groomed and tacked before I arrive thanks. Fairly good ground manners were something we were after, and not being able to see first hand how the horse was to catch/halter/groom/tie was an issue.
I think the big key in buying AND selling is honesty, and communication.
We had a really disappointing experience looking at a horse this summer that we could have been spared with a bit of honesty.
Horse was advertised as a kid packer, registered QH who’d been given 60 days reining training a few years ago. Had been used in a lesson program. Jumped a little course, with changes, lateral movement solid, unfinished in the reining department, but just needed polish. Hacked out happily. Hony sized.
My husband and I were like GET IN THE CAR AND GET THE CHEQUEBOOK. I emailed back and forth a few times with the seller, asking all the pertinent questions, asked for conformational pictures, but all I got was pictures of her as a 3 yr. old when she’d been imported from the US. I was told she had no major defects, so I figured that was true.
We drove five hours to see a pony who might have had training at one point, but had been a lesson horse for beginners who posted off her mouth so much her muscling was all upside down and she looked like a banana horse. Dead sided. TOTALLY dead sided. Lateral movement, sorta kinda. No apparent reining training I could find other than a decent neck rein. She also was tacked and waiting when we got there, had long feet that didn’t go in the same directions (I was shocked by that – perfect conformation huh?), and was in a bridle that didn’t fit properly.
When I tried her out, it was like riding a trail string pony; she’d gotten so used to beginners being ‘fidgety’ with their aids that she didn’t respond to any cue quieter than a scream. She had auto-changes, but didn’t seem to know the cue. Tried asking her to round up; the owner told me cheerily ‘she’ll collect, but you have to make her’, which meant of course, saw on her face.
The worst part was, my husband was starry eyed. Coach thought she’d be a good deal for $1500; asking price was more than double that. After being begged, and whined at, I made an offer $700 less than asking price (which would have just saved us the shipping cost) and were turned down.
SERIOUSLY?
Teeeerrrrible.
And the woman was surprised we drove that far to see the horse. Honey, we wouldn’t have if you’d been honest. :S
The horse we ended up buying was AS ADVERTISED. She’s not perfect, but her feet all point in the same direction, she DOES have the training they promised, and she isn’t banana-shaped. We got to see her groomed and tacked up, as well as put through her paces by an excellent rider. And guess what? We paid the asking price.
A little honesty goes a long way.
Completely agree, a post on seller etiquette would be amusing as well. We all have met some seriously dishonest sellers and/or been burned by them.
On my end, if a potential buyer is rude and tries to talk the horse down to lower the price, I will never lower it for them. Or sell to them, unless the horse loved them for some reason. If the buyer is polite and honest and tells me why they like my horse and think it would be a good match and have a great long term home, then I will have no problem negotiating on price. Being courteous goes on long way in my book.
Its been written and submitted already by your’s truely!!
I’m not a one sided person as I can easily slip into someone elses shoes to see their POV. The truth of the matter is most of us have been on both sides of the fence!! The whole point of the article was to point how “bottom of the barrel” people have become and having good etiquette goes all around. I don’t care that it’s been dead for years. I will continue to live my life with proper etiquette with hopes it rubs off on someone else.
This article is very one sided – that of the seller. I think on the balance if the seller only has to endure “lookyloos” and the buyer has to take a risk of “buyer beware”, then I think that the seller is getting off easy. Too much deceit in the horse world and I totally agree with other posters that you sound like a whimp perhaps on behalf of your friend but either way it is what it is.
I didn’t know having class and professionalism makes you a whip… hmmmm I guess I must have missed that Monday memo.
Those who choose to call names and be bullies are exactly that, bullies.
On the flip side, horse buyers have to deal with their fair share of dishonesty and lack of decorum from sellers. When I was in the market five years ago, I looked at several horses who were a far cry from the pics the seller sent – it reminded me of online dating profile pics,. Looked at horses that were dead lame (even my amateur eye could see), older than advertised etc. etc. etc.
My trainer ended up finding the perfect horse for me and my budget. I don’t consider myself an adult kindergartener, I have been riding for 20 plus years, but I do trust my trainer. She is a professional This is why I pay her. She wisely suggested that I lease my mare for a couple of months, and the sellers agreed. This gave me and my mare time to get to know one another, allow her to settle in the barn, have my trainer ride her and give me lessons on her, my farrier watch her in motion and check her feet and lastly time for my vet to check her out. I know not every seller is going to let a horse out on lease, but in my humble opinion it’s a smart idea.
Potion, thanks for the laugh! I cracked up when I read about your taking the 3′ oxer with ease, but not on purpose. I think that would have been quite enough to put me off THAT horse (in every way), thank you.
What an odyssey you have been on whilst horse-shopping. It’s a wonder you aren’t totally discouraged! I think I will keep in mind the adage that no matter what height you are told an equine is supposed to be, subtract at LEAST three inches from that. It reminds me of a fact I discovered when I was still dating (been married over 20 years now): without fail, every single guy I went out with who was under 6′ tall lied about his height. Every one! I know I am 5’6″ on the nose, and I would have men who were almost looking me in the eye announce they were 5’10″ or thereabouts. Nope. And that “15.3″ gelding you’re selling is a PONY, folks! (P.S. My husband is a genuine 18hh.
My son is only 5’9″ and seems to have stopped growing, so I am going to spend time encouraging him not to exaggerate!)
I, sadly, have never been in the market for my own horse. Thank you all for some tips on how to behave when I finally do get to go shopping.
I’m really amazed by some folk’s responses. I agree I wouldn’t want a horse tacked up before coming out, but that is the only point I can see disagreeing with here. The author says that proper etiquette would be coming on time, respecting the seller, and not looking at something that is 30k out of your price range. Can anyone argue that this sounds like sound etiquette advice? This wasn’t a defense of crappy dealers, this wasn’t trying to stomp a purchaser in the mud, it was just recommendations on proper behavior. I’m really missing the whining people keep pointing out. Or is anything negative about a job considered whining nowadays? So when my brother, a doctor, gets upset after working all day with kids with different diseases, and the unfairness of children with terminal illness gets him down, is he being a “whiner” because some aspects of his chosen profession are awful?
In the reverse situation, do we not think a seller that is late, doubles the price (instead of a buyer asking to halve the price), and lies about the horse’s ability (versus a purchaser who lies about their abilities), is rude? Don’t we agree that would be poor etiquette? So what in the advice about being a good purchaser is so wrong here?
Thank you LuckyChance I’m glad you saw and read the same things I did. I see the point of wanting to be there from the get go and watch the horse be caught. That’s all fine and dandy but that takes time too and if the buyer wants to see that they need to take in account for that and be on time! lol.
I don’t know how I was being whiney and acting like a big baby. The post was truly about etiquette, not supporting shady dealers or horse people. I thought that was pretty black and white and self-explanatory. It was a reminder to the world that only you can change yourself in hopes it starts a chain reaction, a butterfly effect on others, to wake up and smell the fresh shavings!! It’s a dog eat dog world out there now and we need to start shining a little more light and respect one another instead of hitting everyone with hate and disrespect!!
I’m of the opinion that the people being comically aggressive and rude about what amounts to a fairly straightforward opinion piece about what this person likes to see from a buyer are probably exactly the kind of person a seller doesn’t want to work with.
And like you, I see nothing offensive or whiny or even very incorrect in the above post. All these things are fairly common sense, and though like most people, I agree that I’d rather see the horse caught and brought in, that’s my only real disagreement. I’m not sure how people arrive at the idea that “You need to just deal with it” and “You’re whiny” from “I’d like people to be on time to the appointment THEY made and be polite about the time I need to allot out of my day for their visit.”
Would you seriously buy from someone if you make an appointment to see a horse, took the time to drive out, and when you get there, the -seller- doesn’t bother to actually show? Or doesn’t have any paperwork or tack ready? Or hasn’t told you that Fluffy the Wonder Horse got kicked this morning by a rank mare and is hobble-legged lame? Probably not.. cause it’s rude and unprofessional.
Pot, meet kettle.
Hmmm….
I don’t find your demeanor to be at all ‘classy’.
Defensive, yes.
Arrogant, yes.
But not classy.
If you work with your horses with the same high-handed rather bully-ish attitude with which you communicate with people, I don’t think I’d be at all interested. Nope. Not at all.
And I’m not even a “natural horsemanship’ weenie!
There are so many differing viewpoints here, I may as well add mine
First – I do NOT want my time wasted watching someone “catch” the horse for me to ride. Because, guess what, I DON’T CATCH HORSES. They come when they are called. Period. I don’t give two craps if some bozo has to run a marathon to catch the horse because when I buy it it will be trained to come when I call it. Same for how it stands to be cross-tied or its patience or blah, blah, blah. It’ll be how I want it by the end of two weeks with me. On this matter, I agree with Ride Like the Wind. (This does not apply for beginners. I would want to know the horse is at least safe, but these things could still be addressed with a good instructor/trainer).
Second – I don’t know if RLTW is on crack or in another universe, but there is no chance, if I have $5,000 to spend, that I’m going to look at horses listed as $5,000 or less. I’m going to look at horses in the $7,500 range because EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE. Let’s assume the seller is paying $1,000/month for board and training. If they sell me their $7,500 horse today (or next week after the TRIAL and prepurchase exam) for $5,000, they’ve saved the $2,000-$2,500 they’d be spending on the next two to two and a half’s month board/training as they wait around for someone else to show up with the extra $2,000-$2,500. Sellers who won’t negotiate are either newbies or have no business in the horse business, especially in this market and especially to an exceptional home that is providing everything you feel would be best for your horse.
Third – I don’t know if RLTW actually meant “cash in hand,” as in walking in at the first look with the cash. Hell no. I look at a horse and ride it AT LEAST twice before even beginning negotiations. Dare I mention the TRIAL that all buyers should demand. Hear that? MOST PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BUY A HORSE WITHOUT A TRIAL. (That said, you’re not taking my horses on trial. Yep, double standard
). Now, if a horse goes out on trial the BUYER should insure the horse before it ever leaves the property. Always.
People need to buy with their heads, not their hearts. Guess what, chances are good that if you’re looking at this horse today, it’s going to be available tomorrow. And next week. And next month. And in 6 months. DON’T RUSH into buying a horse. DON’T fall for the pressure. DON’T fall for the “Oh, you better snap him up! He’s not going to be here long!” Bullshit. Your heart may tell you that horse is perfect, and maybe it is, but be patient. Do NOT go in cash in hand and buy a horse the first time you see it unless you are very experienced.
I’m all for buyer etiquette, but please, sellers, don’t treat buyers as if we’re all stoopid and all the same. We’re not.
I put a lovely homebred oldenburg up for sale several years ago. I was honest in what his attributes were and the fact that he had too much knee to be a hunter. I was called by a hunter trainer who really liked his conformation picture in his ad. I explained to her that he did not have suitable movement to be a hunter and she thanked me but wanted to come out anyway. She drove at least an hour and a half one way after making an appointment with my trainer to discover that the horse had too much knee to be a hunter. Oy! I am not an idiot, I know what movement is needed in the hunter ring even though I am not a hunter rider. I did happen to show up at the barn as they were finishing up with their appointment and they were good natured about it and really loved my gelding’s attitude and looks and admitted that they were really hoping he would have flatter movement. I also dealt with a potential purchaser from out of state that was great to deal with. He was very specific in what he was looking for and I was brutally honest in every aspect of my horse to the extent that he said that he was truely appreciative and rarely found such candor from a seller. I accepted some requests that cost me some money, such as hauling him in to be free jumped and so forth but it was all good marketing material that I ended up with. My gelding was just starting under saddle so I was periodically sending video to the prospective purchaser. Unfortunately the only canter video I was able to take was his first time under saddle and it was fairly awkward and unbalanced and ended up being a deal breaker. The irony of it all is that his canter turned out to be tremendous once he discovered his balance. He has gone on to a wonderful career as a dressage horse with an owner who loves him to pieces. I only wish his current owner was the person I had sold him to. The person who bought him from me brought her trainer and they proceeded to ride my just in training 3yo for nearly 2.5 hours and also put him over fences, of which he had no experience. I have no issues with trying a couple crossbars to see his ability but anything past that is overkill to me and I was very irritated with my trainer for allowing it. I am sure that this so called “trainer” that the client brought with them is the reason that my gelding is petrified of jumping to this day. But he ended up in a wonderful home in the long run and that is what matters.
Look, you can tell stories good and bad till the cows come home. You can whine and complain about lack of proper etiquette, but in reality “proper etiquette” is not static or common. What was considered proper 20 years ago is not considered proper now, with horses, in social circles, politics, etc. And what is considered socially acceptable for one group of folks is not necessarily acceptable for a different group.
When you take a necessarily risky activity of buying a horse, folks get hinkey, even those who espouse good ethics and behavior. It is nerve wracking for both the buyer and the seller for a myriad of reasons.
But complaining NEVER gets you anywhere good. What does get you positive results is to not let yourself become a victim. When I am selling a horse, I am honest to a fault, but I do not make a special appointment. I will make the horse available when I will be available. If I will be at home or at the barn anyway, then it’s okay for them to come. I state clearly that I will be there from time point x to time point z and after that I may or not be there.
I refuse to become a victim. The woman who was being flakey about which filly may or may not be for sale at one price or another and she may or may not be bringing her or her sister down to my area, I told her, “Call me if you bring either filly to my area. If not, good luck in your endeavors.” Buh, bye.
So you can say “It only about respect and common courtesy” and complain all you want, but it won’t change things a whit. All you can do is change your attitude, which is really the only thing you can control.
Class and professionalism? Really? I think the person who learns to deal with these types of awkward circumstances without complaining and whinging is the classy professional. To me this post does not seem classy or professional.
Also in all the years I’ve bought and sold horses, I’ve NEVER encountered anyone who was “joy-riding” sale horses. It seems like a quick way to get hurt…. Badly.
Okay, so I’m in a slightly different situation, since I’m a rescuer adopting out mostly low value horses. I’ve discovered a good way of weeding out many of the dreamers: my ‘pre adoption’ form, that I have potential adopters fill out before they ever even come to see the horse, includes a ‘how much do you plan to spend on …’ list, with everything from grazing, hay, feed, farrier, wormer, vet, etc etc etc on a monthly or yearly basis. I suspect that a lot of newbies get that far, enter some random amounts, add it all up and suddenly realise that even a cheapie paddock mate is still a @#$% expensive animal to have. It also gathers info on exactly what sort of horse they want, their horse skills, and so on, so I can judge if the horse they want to see is likely to be a good match (and if not, if one of the others might be instead…).
Claire Vale
Kahurangi Equine Rescue
New Zealand
OMG yes I can so relate to this post atm!!! I’ve been riding horses for my trainer for a few years and in the past year I have taken over selling a couple of them (as I know the horses and her life’s gotten a bit hectic atm).
- If you only intend on paying $2000 for a $4000 firm horse don’t come and see it and then tell me you only have $2000 and not be willing to negotiate at all. I just got the day off work to show you the bloody horse!
- Non horsey parents looking to buy for inexperienced/young kid without trainer assistance. I’m sorry but there’s a reason my 4yo 17hh ottb recently retrained for hack/eventing ‘experienced home/rider only’ is not suitable for your 8yo!
- I dislike the term bombproof. I know all the horses that I ride, I know their good ways, I know that blah blah will look a a colourful jump on the first lap around, I know that such and such won’t. I know that I should start circling blah blah when a chaff bag/plastic bag/paper/insert-stupid-thing-that-might-eat-them blows across the arena, I know that such and such won’t look at it. I’m quite honest when asked about the quietness of some horses, ie a freight train can drive past blah blah and he won’t bat a lid, but 3 in 20 birds flying out of a bush might eat him and he may freeze on the spot. I had one lady, screech at me over the phone that blahblah was spooky and I should advertise him as expert rider only and promptly hang up on me. I refuse to put myself in the position of having someone call me and say “you said he was quiet and he spooked at a bird and my kid broke his arm”. I know kids parents that have done that to previous owners of new kids ponies and I’ve known the ponies to be quiet, it just happens, you’re putting your 12yo on a 400kg flight response animal that’s ranked at being the most dangerous sport in the world!
The nuts on the phone bring so much entertainment to my day. Blah blah happens to be about the best, most fun horse I’ve ever had to ride (had only ever trail ridden, 2 days later wins at dressage with 75%), he’s going to make the best teens horse for someone wanting to be a bit competitive but still have a load of fun with! I don’t want to sell him!!!
- Horse ad: good manners, jumps 70cm, 75% scores in dressage, quiet, safe, games, trails, good conf, $6000… I had many phone calls of “would you accept $2000?”, “Um, no”, “Oh ok, bye” (the horse is quite obviously worth it and his name may as well be Kitchen- new renovations).
- Don’t get offended when I ask you what riding/level you’re at- I’m asking to see if the horse is suitable for you and if you’re someone I’d like my horse to go to!
- I had one lady that came to look at a $2000 kids pony that I was selling on behalf of non horsey parents at the stables- she walked around the horse and whinged about every detail of the pony, (like she was expecting me to turn to her and go oh yeah I see what you mean what the heck you can have him for $500!), she most notably whinged about his ‘lack of topline’, he was an 8yo first pony, advertised as a plod along/hoon around, of course he wasn’t travelling around with dressage collection to achieve a topline (I then later found out that her kids ponies had every device under the sun on their head/mouth to jam them ‘on the bit’ whilst they yanked them around and was glad she didn’t buy him- she was upgrading them because the 3 ponies had started rearing/bolting/bucking- no wonder!).
- I charge $100/day to go and look at horses/ride with ppl looking to purchase. I’m amazed at the parents that assume that I just must do it for fun (and for free! OK I admit that sometimes it is fun.) when they enquire about me looking for a horse for their kid (one said non horsey parent thought she knew best, bought a pony for her daughter for $5000 sight unseen the next week, kid got bucked off said pony the next week- kid booted her in the flank upon mounting- a year later and thousands of dollars in agistment fees I ended up being given the pony *headdesk* very nice pony too!).
I’ve recently sold a horse (being picked up tomorrow) and the whole selling process was a nightmare. Lots of time wasted with a 15 yr old via email. I finally got smart and didn’t answer anything that sounded weird. The people who did show up… I got a little of everything. For a week straight every afternoon I showed the horse. Mostly what I heard was “He’s so BIG” which I stated clearly in the ad, he’s 16.1 hands and a big solid horse! What did they expect?! So I’d get the height stick out and prove it. I don’t know what people think when they read 16.1.
I also heard mine was the first they’d seen that wasn’t skinny. Now my horses are FAT and we’re proud of it, but I got to thinking, how can I sell this horse when people are seeing these skinny horses out there that obviously need a better home. I was in no hurry, thankfully, just cutting back what I don’t use enough. The horse finally sold to a guy who’s been wanting to buy him for 6 months, has ridden him and loves him. His wife is sneaking behind his back and buying him the horse as a surprise gift.
But boy, I don’t want to sell a horse through advertising again. It was a LOT of wasted time.
This comes right as I’ve started looking for a new horse. I think someone needs to do an article about Seller’s etiquette. I called a person a couple weeks ago and set up an appointment to go look at a gelding. He wasn’t a fancy jumper or anything, which isn’t what I’m looking for, so I didn’t expect him to impeccably groomed or for anyone to go out of their way all day for me to look at him. Boyfriend wants to start riding with me and I’m looking for a suitable older horse, plus I’ve been looking for a trail horse because my jumper is way to spooky to take on long trails. (The way I see it: We break up? At least I got a pony out of it.) They told me he was well broke, easy to catch, and was UTD on all shots and vet care. I get there: I watch the owner spend 30 minutes trying to catch said gelding in the field. Promising me the whole time “He’s never been this hard to catch before!” before she asks for my help. I walked up to him, petted him and reached for his halter to clip the lead on. He reared and I ended up with nylon burn on my hand. I also got kicked as he galloped away. Also, they had no vet work on the horse on hand. Needless to say, I immediately lost all interest in the horse.
My two cents:
1. I agree with the bad writing. It was sloppy. Take some time to review and edit.
2. It was a whole lot of whining. When I was selling horses, I was THRILLED to have someone come out and look. I did all that the poster was complaining about (wash and groom horse, have tack cleaned and ready, rearrange schedule to fit buyer’s schedule, make sure barn was spanky clean, etc…) Yes, some never showed up. Some were late. Some came without riding attire. But, some came with serious intentions and made a deal. People wander in and out of retail stores all the time to just look. Stop crying about your lookers — all you need is one buyer and you never know which one that one will be, so be nice to them all!!!!
I’m a fan of trial periods. In the past we’ve offered a trial week, no questions asked. Sometimes a horse and person just turn out not to like each other.
As a buyer, I believe it’s only honorable to be up-front about what’s going to happen at the visit. “We have several prospects so we’re not going to make a decision today,” keeps the seller from cashing your check in his or her head and then being disappointed. And if I turn around and write that check on the spot anyway because I can’t bear to think of anyone else buying that horse, then everyone is extra happy.
Bad sellers and buyers are part of the business. Sorry you’ve had a bad time.
Thank you for this post. As a seller, I will do my part to represent a horse honestly and have it prepped and ready to go for the buyer. It is very frustrating to waste time on tire-kickers or to have a buyer misrepresent their needs. Also, if the horse is right for you, you will most likely have that “perfect wedding dress moment” when you ride it. Don’t try to talk yourself into a horse. On a similar note, never to be too shy to tell the seller that the horse just isn’t right for you and what it is that you don’t like. As a professional, my feeling will not be hurt and I will be grateful not to waste my client’s time/ hope on a sale that is not going to happen.