Wiki said it all
Feb 06 2012
A wonderful reader sent in a link to a fantastic website that sells these amazing bits (they’re not the only online store to sell them, but I’m not going to link to all of them!) that are specifically designed for people looking for “a bit that will relax your horse, but will still let you be in control”. Really? Well sign me up! I can’t wait to check this bit out – it sounds like an ideal solution for any horse and rider combination. Relaxed control? Bring it on!
This first bit has specifically been designed “for starting horses or adding bend for better turns. The large twisted copper gives you a lot of bend and is great on horses that tend to be stiff in a turn and smooth in a stop.”
Nope. It really does say “large twisted copper”. Who the fuck thinks that a twisted anything should be ANYWHERE near a horse that’s just starting out? -or at anytime, for that matter? I did some wiki-ing (when in doubt; wiki. Right? Because they’re never wrong… *eye roll*) to refresh my bit knowledge before attacking these bits and, really, this wiki entry says it all:
“All twisted mouthpieces are considered more severe than smooth mouthpieces. In general, they are not appropriate for novice riders or those with harsh or unskilled hands. Neither these nor any bits should be used to the point where they cause bleeding of the horse’s mouth.
If a rider believes such a bit would benefit his horse, he should first look at the animal’s training and his own skills. Many problems can be resolved through proper training, rather than harsher bitting. Usually, it is the less-skilled riders who find the need to use harsher bits, because they can’t control their horses in anything else.”
According to the author of that wiki post, chain mouth bits are “considered by most horsemen to be too severe for use and many categorize them as cruel. These bits are not allowed in competition.”
But wait, these people aren’t advertising these bits for competition! They’re advertising them as being suitable for starting horses! They have no training to revisit, no problems to sort out. Starting a horse means you’re starting with a blank slate! You want to know how to create a rearing problem? Throw in this bit and see what happens. Good fucking luck.
Not convinced by wiki? Check out this article on equisearch.com which states that “the thinner a mouthpiece is, the more severe it is” and “the fact that the wire is twisted makes it strong across the bars and tongue of the horse’s mouth.”
Ok then.
Next from the Cindy Wright collection, we have the “Chain O-Ring” for those whose horses that have a “tough mouth”. According to the blurb with this bit, it’ll make your horse “really pay attention”.
Seriously though, save yourself the $49.00, hit up your local hardware store (or Walmart) and pick up 5 inches of chain and just use that instead! Be sure to keep the paramedics on speed dial though, because I sincerely hope your horse dumps your stupid ass.
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On an unrelated manner – as previously mentioned, Fugly is a proud finalist in the Best Blog category of Equestrian Social Media Awards!!! Wooo!! (Don’t forget to vote! -which closes on Feb 10!) A requirement of all finalists is that we submit a video for if we win, and if we don’t. Umm I’m a writer (or at least I pretend to be!), not a video-person-whatever-they’re-called. So I’ve struck an accord. A promising film student has graciously agreed to produce the videos for Fugly in exchange for some exposure. To which I say: YIPPPPPEEEEEEE!!!!!
Actually, it’s pretty cool, they’re in a competition to win some start up money for their own film company. So please, stop by youtube and check out their video, all you have to do is watch. Easy, right? Please share the link as well – let’s help them win! Oh, and they have offered to donate $100 if they win to a charity of our choosing!
86 comments to “Wiki said it all”
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Totally unrelated to the post- I rescued a pony yesterday. Her blog. http://rescuepony.wordpress.com I am just a regular person, not some sort of rescue, I came across this pony with horrific slipper feet and my conscience would not let me leave her there. I will be chronicling her recovery on the blog.
Please go see the blog, share it with your friends, I plan to closely document her feet and their recovery so it will hopefully be educational and helpful to anyone who finds themselves in my situation…
Regarding those bits… Anyone who even thinks about using one should be banned from going within 100 feet of any horse for life. Holy smokes how do people not realize that they are cruel and painful? For that matter, why is it that when you see some yahoo using a bit like that, they are always cranking and yanking with one hand because there is a beer in the other hand?
Hooray for saving the pony! I hope all goes well with the recovery!
She is so cute!!
Yay for saving such Minnie – what a cutiepie. Great job by the farrier and the vet, her hooves are looking so much better. Bonus karma points for you.
Well done you- you did something instead of walking on by!!!
You are going to be wondering what sort of cretin left this little gem in a field, in a very short time.
Apropos of nothing, I don’t think she is Palomino, I think she may be Dunalino, or just possibly, Silver Bay….
Congrats on the rescue! Way to go
The reason behind these bizarre things is money. Trainers want that extra cash. Look in any tack catalog and you will see all kinds of sponsored bits. The truth is that not much has changed in a horses mouth since we started riding them. There are a few tried and true bit styles to choose from, and from there it is a matter of finding a bit that the horse likes. Take a look at the echini from Xenophon’s time. We will continue to see all kinds of weird bits.
That is so true. I went to the florida barrel racing finals just to watch. One of the vendors had an entire rack of contraptions that made these bits look mild. We are talking bicycle chains, SHARP POINTS FACING IN (and yes, i personally felt it-sharp! ) GAG bit, with a fine steel cable wire run over the pole. Here is a picture of a similar one
http://www.tackstop.com/ccbikechaindrawbit.jpg.
Those ARE teeth on the inside of that mouthpeice
I thought the first two were bad, but holy fuck, that third bit. NOBODY NEEDS A BIT LIKE THAT.
Goddamn. I’m not an expert on all the different kinds of bits, and I’m not an expert on training, but my coach certainly has a lot of experience, and I don’t think I have ever seen anything other than a simple snaffle go into any horse’s mouth. She has some thinner, harsher ones for those few horses who are right assholes, but they are ALWAYS temporary, and as soon as they start behaving, it’s back to the regular bit. You’d probably get smacked over the head for even suggesting you use anything like one of those twisted/chain bits. God, she doesn’t even put a bit on most of the horses their first few times under saddle – they get ridden around in a tight-fitting halter with two lead ropes. Honestly, there is no excuse for ANYONE to use bits like that for ANY reason.
It sounds like your coach and I would get along! I start horses in a lunging cavesson with a pair of gaming reins attached (lead ropes are just too bulky for my tiny hands!), and don’t ride with a bit until somewhere between the third and fifth ride — even though the horses have been lunging with a surcingle on and a bit in their mouth for quite some time before that.
For reference (and a bit of shameless self-promotion, haha), here’s a video of one horse’s seventh ride:
http://youtu.be/LBIgoAXqwvI
These are pretty standard bits for barrel racers, esp. the local “punkin’ roller” type shows. Add tie downs and cable bonnets and riders riding entirely off their hands (and spurs) to these “wonder bits” and the poor horses have no where to go. Refreshingly, I was happy to see some riders at the rodeo finals in Vegas using only a snaffle with no tie down and they barely touched the reins…but of course, they actually trained their horses to move off their legs instead of man(lady)-handling them around the barrels, which only slows you down.
The bit I have seen used with barrel racers is a junior cowhorse bit and the twisted copper muthpiece it two pieces not three like this one.
Wow didnt realize I needed a harsher bit to get my horses attention. I though softening exercises and teaching her to move off my body was the correct way to go… hmm I must be “amazing” to have gotten my high strung Arabian mare to walk trot and canter on a loose rein with her head down and to listen to my seat. All of that on a plain french link snaffle bit.
People need to realize that if instead of training you just go to harsher and harsher bits that eventually you might as well wrap barbed wire around their nose and go.
What happened to starting a horse in either a bosal (or indian type hackamore) or a plain snaffle?
Ugh people are laaaaazzzzzyyyyy. My first instructor always taught me to look to what I was doing wrong if my ride wasn’t going well – as opposed to blaming the horse, which is what people who use these types of bits are doing. As always, there are exceptions to the rule, and it may well be that certain horses go better in the harsher stuff – but I’ve never personally seen a horse that needs these types of bits…
Representing any twisted bit as a great bit for starting horses is ludicrous. What bothers me most about the bits represented is the combination twisted mouth, curb AND gag. I have one of those collecting dust for the past 20 years in my tack room. Can it be used effectively? Absolutely. In the right hands. That’s the key. Problem being, as you stated, is that riders with little or no formal education get a hold of these things and before you know it, their horses are flipping over backwards or giving them a free nose job. You’ll see a lot of barrel racers using that bit – the ones who want to go fast but don’t invest the time to properly train the horse first.
I also have a twisted wire snaffle collecting dust. When I started one of my colts I thought for sure I’d have to blow the dust off it. Instead, I opted to lose the egg butt copper mouth that he fell asleep with for a thinner (not obscene) loose ring iron snaffle. It did the trick and he’s in year 3 with it. Heading eventually towards western pleasure, he’ll need to learn about shanks eventually but for now we’re staying in the snaffle until there’s a show in the near future. I never thought he’d be as soft as he is now but am so glad I went the ‘medium’ route before opting for a mule bit. I save the harsher bits for show and train / trail ride with snaffles or bosals. If a horse stays light in a snaffle, you’re getting the job done. If you find you have to go to a stronger bit several times, the training is the fail, not the bit.
I don’t agree with any of those bits for training a new horse.
But I do have to share an experience I had with a 12 year old horse I bought. He came to me in horrendous bits. I was told to ride him in either a mule bit (with the points facing away from his mouth) or a bike chain. I was told to let the bit be loose, and to not do the normal 2 wrinkles in the corner of his mouth thing. (Which I don’t agree with anyway but that is another story) He was soft mouthed and an easy ride so I changed him over to a fat loose ring snaffle. He kept his ears back and was generally grumpy to ride. He did what I asked but he wasn’t happy. Over the three years I owned him I tried many bits. Maybe this one is too fat, maybe he likes the copper of the nasty bits he came with, maybe he would prefer one with 2 joints instead of one, etc…
For whatever reason the only bits he would work and be happy in were the two nasty ones he came with. He wasn’t afraid of them and pretending to be happy. He was truly much more relaxed and enjoyed himself with those bits. He was soft mouthed no matter what I put in his mouth so the bits never really touched him. He worked mostly off my legs and simple finger squeezes so I got over feeling bad about the bits. And yes I tried each new bit for a long time to give him a chance to settle into it. He never liked any of them.
The only thing I can figure is that he preferred all the joints in those bits. They flexed more to shape his mouth? I didn’t think of that until after I no longer owned him so I never got to test the theory with a different bit that had as many joints.
I had a baby and had ended up giving him back to his prior owners due to a lack of time/money. They didn’t care to experiment and just left his bits alone.
You’ll find there are some horses who really are just like that! I assume if you had used a Waterford bit on him, that it would have elicited the same “relaxed” reaction as the harsher mule and chain bits. The good thing is that the original owner had the forethought to place the points outwards, rather than inwards, saving the horse’s lips/gums/sanity.
Speaking of, I’d love to get a Waterford to try out on my current mare — I think she would actually like it. Anyone have experience with this particular bit?
A waterford is the first bit I ride OTTBs in when they come off the track. Most of them like it. I use it because most OTTBs are used to having tongues tied or various other things in their mouth and the waterford gives them something to play with but I can still rate their mouth. I usually move them into plain snaffles after a few rides. Just works for me.
My one horse LOVES his waterford. We have a waterford snaffle and a elevator and he goes well in both. He gets a little excite Cross country so I usually use the elevator for that. As for the original bit story I also have a horse that prefers a twisted snaffle. I bought her through breed auction and once I took possession realized her mouth was full of sores. After letting them heal we started her back in a snaffle with a lot of protests. She was mouthy and fussy. After having teeth done and trying a ton of bits my trainer made the suggestion. He said it may have a different feel for her. Sure enough she relaxed and flex an we got some training done. She now goes in a curb for competition but when I ride her around or on the trail it is the twisted. She goes on a very slack rein and I rarely have to touch he mouth but for some reason she prefers it. So I guess I should be kicked out of the barn for being “cruel”. Remember any bit even the fattest of snaffles can be harsh in the wrong hands. It is all in how one uses these that make the difference.
I have a Waterford and used it on a whacking huge TB/Clyde cross as she was leaning on the hands. This was a 1600-lb mare that could drop her topline 4 inches and go flatout. It lightened her up off her forehand, all right, but steering was compromised (should mention I mostly rode her bareback so was not relying on my hands) so went back to a full-cheek Dr Bristol.
My first horse had a similar preference, although not to that extreme. She came to me having been ridden for a couple of decades in a tom thumb. I was quite surprised to see one of the more illogical and harsh training bits in the mouth of a 20+ year old trail mare. She was absurdly responsive and wonderful at her job – never had any training problems with her whatsoever. I decided no, we can’t have this awful bit in her mouth and stuck her into a snaffle and she just fussed and fussed. Put her back in the tom thumb and she went off relaxed and happy. Go figure.
That’s very interesting, and I’ll bet you did not need to hang on her mouth and you used correct aids, but it was just a bit that your horse liked and you used it properly.
Same experience. Bought an older Tennesee Walker and he came with the last bit, only worse… a twisted wire. I hated using it, but he seemed to like it. I thought it was so odd. We eventually worked him into a gentle curb. He’s always been a go go go horse with no need for hands and very little leg. Also got a video on how to train Walkers to walk correctly and the trainer strongly suggested using that twisted wire bit. Is this normal for Walkers? Any one else with that experience?
I don’t know about the big lick walkers, what’s “normal” for them is abuse by most outside standards… But I have a walker that was trained by one of the best humane trainers in the business, mr. Roger hand of Alabama, and he used only snaffles and then very short shanked bits, nothing harsh, and my gelding learned to walk just great. Barefoot, all natural gait. He trotted mostly before his training with roger. Training a walking horse is like training any horse, it takes tons of patient repetition. Obviously there are exceptions, but in most cases, a harsh bit is a shortcut that isn’t fair to the horse!
Definitely agree with this, smooth fat snaffles dont fit every pallete.
That said, I without having checked the links I am going to go on a limb and say these are geared toward gaited horses (the last one I know is popular within the walking horse community). While I do agree that no horse should ever be started in any of these, and ideally never even see one, I feel I must play devils advocate a little here. Gaited horses are ridden with a lot less leg (proper saddleseat equitation dictates that the lower calf not touch the horse), and the horses are asked to carry their heads on their own, not completely backed off the bit, but significantly less pressure than our sport horse counterparts. Ideally, yes this should be done in “less” bit than we see here, but I just want to point out that the amount of pressure on the bit that many of you may be picturing because of what is normal with your discipline may not be how everyone is using that.
Just a thought.
If you’re showing a gaited horse that may be true, but for the average pleasure horse, you ride them like any trotting horse, balanced and relaxed, if you are riding properly. A naturally gaited, properly trained gaited horse shouldn’t need a special bit to gait properly.
Yes, I will never understand why so many walking horse please horse owners are on the trail riding around on a loose rein with medieval contraptions in their horses mouths. You see it every day around here. However if the horse seems content with it, and the rider isnt abusive I tend not to pass too much judgement on the matter.
My saying has always been ‘If you think you need a bigger, harsher, meaner bit to get your horse to pay attention. YOU’RE doin’ it wrong.’ Of course there are always an acception to that rule. Knew a horse that, when gaming, would always run through his rider and just become an excitable mess (well trained, just he LOVED to run). They played with bits and found a slightly stronger one that worked well with him. But generally I say 99% of horses (including the just starting ones) don’t need these kinds of bits, they just need people who aren’t red neck idiots that need to be stomped into the ground. I mean really? You’re gonna shove those bits into your horse’s mouth? How about if I shove them in YOUR mouth and crank and yank (yet another one of my sayings)? If you wouldn’t want it in your mouth, than what makes you think your horse wants it in HIS mouth? If the horse doesn’t respond and has a ‘dead’ mouth than why don’t you try, oh I don’t know a side pull, hackamore, bosal, or a bitless bridle? Rode a gaited pony that would just brace against you in a regular snaffle with a french link (can anyone guess why?). Went out and bought him a side pull at a tack sale. With in two lessons I had him relaxed and he’d give. What’d happen if I went out and bought a bigger and meaner bit? It would have just showed the pony that being ridden means pain and he’d resist even more. People who don’t do the sliding scale and go from one bit to an extreme one need to be shot (or stomped into the ground). Some horses may need a little bit more control, but the bits here are extreme. I mean REALLY? Look at your self and get lessons if necessary. Your horse shouldn’t have to pay for your idiocity. There is no shame in playing with bits and types, but if you go from a snaffle to one of the three shown, please go and stand in front of a moving bus.
Perhaps we should wonder what it would feel like to have TWISTED COPPER in our own mouths before we consider burdening our horses with them. Not that horses and humans have the same mouths, but come on! There are probably a handful of horses who could use these bits, but only with an experienced rider. But novice riders? Oy gevalt!
http://www.itsbraintime.blogspot.com
My saying is harsh bits are no substitute for good/better/more training. I think that pretty much sums it up.
Light hands and a heavy bit still beat heavy hands in a light bit! Train, train, train!
Agreed! As long as the light hands/heavy bit don’t evole to heavy hands/heavy bit. I leave the serious corrections to the trainer. He can be the bad cop, I prefer to keep it light and be the good cop. I use a correction bit and never have to do much more than wiggle the shank to get a response. when we are warming up and suppling, I will add more pressure but it is always even and never more than what it takes to get the desired response. I do use a rope noseband.
Me, too.
Of course, with only about eight years in the saddle now (at age 54) I’m considered a ‘newby’ by many. Makes those folks mad when someone asks what kind of ‘stronger bit’ they should get because the dang horse don’t have no WOAH on ‘im…
… and I say “You don’t stop a horse with a bit. You stop a horse with TRAINING.”
All my horses are started in a halter, usually a rope halter, no matter what their history or training is. On the ground they should be taught in a halter, so there is no reason what they’ve learned on the ground can’t transfer to when they are under saddle. Once in the saddle, if a horse needs more control, I may move them into a side pull or a snaffle at that point. Some horses I will keep in a halter for a year or more if they don’t need more control. On OTTBs I never use a bit at first and have never had a problem with them not respecting the rider.
When I do go to bit, I use a copper mouth piece, but always a nice thick eggbutt or a D-Ring Snaffle. No wire, no thin mouth pieces that aggravate the pressure points of the mouth. The problem is that having a soft responsive horse takes time. People are not patient. They only want to pay for 30 days training and want quick results. So, put the horse in a nasty bit with a noseband or tie down or other gadgets and force the movement out of them due to discomfort.
I want my horses to respond to miminal cues. Do I want my horses to appear well trained? Sure, but most importantly I want them to be safe. You never know when you’ll be out on a trail and something will go wrong. What would happen if you don’t have one of your trusty gadgets to get you out of a bind? I met a “cowboy” once at a trailhead for a ride. He dropped the reins, horse stepped on them and broke the curb chain of his bridle. This guy was so dependent on every little piece of tack on the horse, that he wouldn’t get on the horse without his curb chain. The ride was over before we had even left the parking lot. Any one of my horses would have been fine to continue.
OUCH!!
There’s nothing evil about copper — most horses prefer it, as it helps keep their mouths moist, and both more responsive and more comfortable.
One thing I have learned is to never say never. Soon as I swear I would *never* use such and such bit, along comes a horse that is happy and comfortable ONLY in that horrible monstrous evil bit. However, most people have no business using these bits.
OTOH, not every horse will go happily in a regular snaffle — in fact, most horses in my experience are happier in either a 3-piece mouth (french link or dr. bristol) or an unjointed mullen mouth snaffle. Regular snaffles have a nutcracker effect, which is why so many horses in regular snaffles require drop or flash or figure-8 nosebands. If your horse opens his mouth on the bit, check his teeth — and if that’s not a problem, try a different (but still mild) bit. Find a bit he’s comfortable in *before* opening his mouth becomes a habit, and then you can use a plain cavesson properly fitted (four fingers should slip in at the horse’s jaw).
I have a mare that hates any type of snaffle (broken mouth piece). I still train in a snaffle but show in a medium port curb that she prefers. No cavesson or noseband of any type. No matter the bit, she always mouths it and forcing her mouth shut made her really clostrophobic. Not worth it. Now if I could show in a halter, I’d be all set!
I find horses to prefer sweet iron to copper.
I was told that a standard snaffle is hard on many horses with low palates, it pokes them in the palate. I had an Arab in a standard snaffle and she was very unhappy, trainer told me that and suggested I switch to a French link, and voila, happy mare!
The trainer claimed that Arabs tend to have low palates and that she never used regular snaffles on Arabs for that reason.
I don’t know if she was right, but my horse did like the French link much better!
I wish I had known that years ago. I did the snaffle for the first few years, cause I thought it was “better” but my Arab mare chewed the thing till it had sharp edges!! She liked the low port curb with grazing shanks. I just leased a horse who goes in a french link, has training, been there, done that. On my first ride, I didn’t know her cues and I felt like a toddler. I’m going to try her in my side pull, if it fits. Or even her rope halter.
I figured out I was used to a very custimized ride with my mare. RIP Altiva
My new friend has had a few transient riders recently and I know she testing is me. But I would rather error on the side less not more. It’s the foundation that counts.
I am in heaven!!!
If my horses would take a snaffle, a French Link, Full Cheek, was my bit of choice, but I usually found that a nice, mullen mouthed Pelham was better for them. I was trained to ride in two reins, and have always found my horses go well in them.
As many people have pointed out on this post, even though we are all agreed that these monstrosities have no place in any horses mouth, it is more what you do with your hands, than what you have in the horses mouth.
OMFG….so you mean to say all those trusting babies I started in fat rubber bits and hollowmouth looserings were all wrong?! *eyeroll* Holy crap on a cracker. All I can see are frightened horses flipping over backwards when some ham-fisted jackass decides that this is what they need.
I have, in my collection, a copper double-twisted bit which I bought from the consignment section of a tack store. I have never used and never will use it, or sell it. These monstrosities have to be waaaaayyyyy up there in terms of the most brutal bits I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen a lot. Man.
I see twisted bits used by local barrel racers (kinda stupid rednecks) but I also see twisted bits being used by more well-taught barrel racers that compete throughout the state and region and have been exposed to a lot of new information, but they still use twisted bits. they say it helps control their horse, and softer bits don’t work. training may or may not be useful for a barrel horse, since its whole life is running the same pattern over and over and trying to be faster each time. i know some people that use twisted wires in the arena and a soft bit when out on trails. what’s the point of using a harsh bit on an animal in a setting where it knows what to do and will do it without question? shouldn’t the owner just use the soft bit all of thetime?
oh, question, do racehorses use twisted bits? i’ve seen pictures of them with just simple d-ring bits and the, uh, bit extra that’s round and used for leading.
perhaps there is a place for harsh bits (like with harsh dog training methods), but its place is definitely not on that website for $100 a bit! there should be a disclaimer or something :/ and it’s sickening to think that it’s advertised as a starting bit. some animals just need a little bit of reinforcement and a slight reminder that hey, i can’t do that or else my mouth will hurt.
“training may or may not be useful for a barrel horse, since its whole life is running the same pattern over and over and trying to be faster each time.”
This is one of the most ridiculous, offensive comments I have seen on this website. Barrel horses need to be properly started and trained just like a horse in any other discipline. Many well-trained barrel horses are indeed “point and go” horses, but it took years and thousands of dollars in training to make them that way. You are basically insinuating that all anyone who barrel races does is pull their 3 year old out of the pasture, start running the cloverleaf, and ta-da, you have a barrel horse. In the same vein, I am suuuure all you need to have a nice jumper is pull it out of the pasture and start going over x-rails, “trying to get higher each time.” Are there people who try to train barrel horses that way? Of course. There are people who KILL OTHER PEOPLE. I can’t speak for all the stupid things humanity has come up with. However, the people who train their barrel horses that way are definitely not winning, nor are they respected as horse people.
Although the few comments on this thread seem to be mostly level headed and open minded (ahem.. kinda stupid rednecks? really? ), it does depress me how quick everyone is to attack people who rodeo and barrel race. We love our horses just as much as you do. We really do. The few people who do it wrong and abuse their horses do not speak for us all. I promise you, if I did half of the things that “most” barrel racers supposedly do, I would get my hind end handed to me by my peers and asked not to show my face at another barrel race or rodeo until I learned how to respect my horse as a living creature.
You must not read much ’round here if thats the most offensive thing you can find….
Those are…horrifying. While I don’t hold that every horse can, regardless of previous experiences, be ridden safely and effectively in a snaffle, I have no idea what would drive someone to use one of those. I actually like bits that apply pressure to other areas over even going to a slow twist, personally. It just makes more sense to try a little pressure in a few places than to just get harsher in the same area.
There was a thread about the bits on the Barrel Horse World forum last summer:
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=360944&start=1
“Her bits are … designed to be used with a seesaw”hands on the wheel” effect. Her dad, …, showed me how he started his calf horses in those bits. He’s had alot of calf horses go to the NFR, so I can tell you he knows what he’s doing as well.
Done right a horse becomes very light and will be supple and broke in the face.”
“The bits are definitely unique. The design takes the pressure off the bars of a horse’s mouth and are wider where all of the sensitive nerves are. The extra width in the middle of the bit gives the horse comfort and still lets you be in control.”
Scary…
25 yrs ago when I first got my mare I found a really “pretty” copper wire curb bit. You should have seen the look of horror on my trainers face when I showed it to her. I was stupid….never used it. Think I still have it somewhere, and have never seen one since. Should put my Super Special One of A Kind bit on eBay and see if I can get my money back! Except I’m afraid someone would use it.
“The less surface area, the more pounds per square inch of pressure the horse feels.”
OT but the above also applies to spurs. I get so sick of riders who say they use spurs just to “make their aids more precise.” Those are weasel-words. I’m not against using spurs, but let’s call a spade a spade and admit what they actually do: significantly increase the amount of pressure the horse feels. They should not be “required” in competition, and they *certainly* shouldn’t be used as proof of a rider’s skill level.
NOPE.. not the norm, except in some circles. The gentleman I got my TN walker from does not show… he starts them all quietly, riding and line driving in a halter.. gets them used to a bit eventually… snaffle…uses a curb bit to help them learn to flex at the poll. This gentleman’s hands are light; he rode dressage for years before he got into the TN Walkers. Often, he rides in a paso-type alsador/curb (no knobs on the curb) and calls it his ‘cowboy hackamore’.
If a horse needs a gag bit, long shanks, heavy shoes, or oddly trimmed feet to ‘walk the walk’, it’s never had a good walk to begin with. WAY too many TWH’s today do not walk correctly – they pace, or do a stepping pace (head nods slightly side to side instead of up and down) and the footfall is tadum tadum tadum instead of OneTwoThreeFour OneTwoThreeFour. This is the legacy the WGCs of the Celebration in Shelbyville has given us – ruination of the breed, for the sake of flash and a lot of old money.
Woops! This was s’posed to be a response to the comment somebody made about walking horses and the odd bits that are used on so many of them…
Gah! I hate twisted wire bits. For anyone out there thinking about using these things because your horse is hard mouthed, let me explain something:
Horses become hard mouthed because of heavy hands. They end up ignoring bit signals because of incorrect use of the bit, not because the bit is not strong enough. If you put this in a horse’s mouth, it WILL pay attention to you – for a little. Then you will be right back where you started because the horse will become used to that bit being pulled around and yanked on. In fact, bits like this should only be used by experienced riders on advanced horses, to aid in giving minimal signals for a better performance (even then, there are much better bits to use). This bit should NEVER be used because you can’t control your horse properly – go back to a snaffle and get a trainer.
Why the fuck anyone would think this thing belongs near a greenie or unstarted horse is beyond me. Clearly the people marketing this thing have no idea how to correctly train a horse and I would think that most people start horses in an eggbut or French link snaffle? That’s what I’ve always used and I am yet to produce a hard mouthed horse. It’s all about releasing the pressure immediately after you get the desired result. My greenie barely needs a bit at all. He can back up without it; he’s beginning to turn without it and he stops without it and the bit he is ridden in is a copper mouth eggbut snaffle. I never needed to use a torture device to get him to do what I wanted.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Holy f**k.
Aye-yi-yi. Why is it that barrel horses seem to take a massive amount of abuse? Well them and the gaited breeds. I excuse I Keep hearing for tie downs and harsh bits is that the horse is uncontrollable during the run down. Or he throws his head during a turn. But BUT a reining horse can blaze down an arena and hit the brakes with the rider just sitting deep. They can do tight lovely turns . That head stays where it needs to be in order to ballance the horse, and that is NOT in the air like a giraffe. but low and in front. So that puts paid to that BS.
Bits like the one above have NO NO NO buisness in the hands of anyone who isn’t at least a Coach 3. There may be a handfull of Olympic caliber horses that need these type of bits but by God you better have the skills to use them. The one that comes to mind is Hickstead. Zucarlos was another freight train on the edge of control. The very BEST riders in the world struggle with these bits. They have No place in an amatures tack box. This kind of short cut garbage is a short lived Band-Aid for a health problem on part of the horse or rider error.
Think of this, if we sent this horse of to John Lyons or WAZ , could they do the job with just the simplest tools? Yes? Then it’s YOU.
Teek
Wow. That’s especially shocking because Reinsman is a name I had always thought of as pretty reputable. Now I’ll know better before assuming!
Reinsman has some harsh bits out there, they are not exempt in that regard but like with everything else use good judgement when purchasing. Reinsman bits are well made and balanced but like with every other maker of bits they make what the public wants, the goal is to make money and that incudes makeing bits that are harsh and some down right hatefull. Most manufactuers do not care about you or your horse or what a certain bit will do in the wrong hands…..thier goal is to sell, sell, sell at the buyer’s disgretion (sp?). It is the responsibililty of the buyer to be educated on how theses bits work and how they will be used and when. If one does not know how to use a bit or does not know how the bit works inside the mouth for what ever specific reasons and goals then one should not be purchasing such a bit.
I once bought a mare at an auction and as I was leaving, her last owner told me I’d need one of these bits to be able to ride her. I told him that if my riding was so bad I needed a twisted wire bit just to control my horse, then I had no business being on the damn horse at all. I switched her to a plain light snaffle, she loved it. The idiot had seriously never taught her how to walk.
I also had someone tell me the same about another auction horse, that she just needed a harsher bit to stop her rearing problem… I got on with a snaffle and rode for about a minute before getting off and taking a look in her mouth. I’ve never ridden a more sensitive mouthed horse. I took her to the dentist and got rid of the barbs on her teeth that were causing sores on her tongue and causing her extreme discomfort when being ridden. (As a fun note, the dentist told me there was nothing wrong and I didn’t need to have them filed. I said I wanted it done anyway, and *gasp* it solved the problem…)
But gosh, if I’d known that this was the cure for hard mouthed horses, I would have just gotten one of these for my gelding when I was fourteen, instead of going bitless until my riding improved and I taught him more. I could have saved so much time and effort!
…what? What an idiot – the most common cause of rearing is over-bitting, IME.
There’s a time and place for everything, including harsh bits.
I have a polo horse who would NOT stop, period, end of story. He would tuck his head to his chest and run like hell right through the bit. If you did an airplane turn and kept circling him smaller and smaller, eventually he’d stop but the chukker would be halfway over by then. I got with a trainer, and we found a stop cue. Taught him that STOP cue, with a rollback. He’d do a jiggy semi-stop not really paying attention half-assed piece of crap. This horse is a smart one and busy-minded, and the type where he’ll do it perfectly while he’s learning it, get bored, and decide he’s not going to do it unless he knows why.
So I bitted him up. We went from a dutch gag with just the snaffle rein on to a low port pelham WITH the curb rein on. Not the harshest bit I could put on him, but by far and away the strongest bit he’s ever had in his mouth. It didn’t do a damn thing. Set his head and ran right through it.
So I put draw reins on his pony ass. We went in to play, he ran like hell, I asked him for a whoa/rollback, he did that little half-assed jiggy crap, and THEN those draw reins kicked in and he ran right smack dab into that bit, and between the draw reins and the martingale (mandatory for polo), he couldn’t evade it in any direction. His head was trapped on that bit, and the bit said you will stop, right now. He has never stopped so fast or so hard before or since.
We’re back to the dutch gag for polo, or a french link baucher for schooling. All he needed was ONE TIME to teach him that whoa really does mean whoa! Later in the match, after he had a massive temper tantrum after running into the bit, he realised that the reason I made him stop like that was so he could Follow The Little White Ball, and now all he stops on a dime.
Now, on to those twisted bits and the chain bits. Everything else aside, how on earth are you supposed to have communication with your horse? With the chain, you might as well be running in a sidepull for all the subtlety of communication you’ll have. And speaking of sidepulls, sidepull + long reins + round pen is THE best way to introduce a green horse to reins. Nothing in the mouth, direct pressure on the head, can focus completely on the rein cues since she isn’t balancing a rider, and so on. I can actually think of a good use for the last bit–cut the chain mouthpiece off, put a puckle noseband in the middle ring, and you have a polo hackamore (again, must play with two reins for safety).
Good gosh…all the shrieks of horror at some little ol’ twisted wire snaffles. If you want to see some REAL bits, just visit a tack trailer at a Saddleseat/Fine Harness show. I swear, some of you would have to be carried out in a faint. How about a double bicycle chain bit with a saw-tooth ground onto each link? There they are, right up on the wall for sale, and let me tell you, there are a lot of them, since the tack shop can plan on selling a bunch during each show. These are driving bits, for those of you who are wondering, and they give some degree of control for the Modern Pleasure harness horse. Then there are the Weymouth high ports, with 8 inch shanks, coupled with the wire-thin bradoons, suitable for the Junior Hunter Pleasure mount…….
Not all of us train or show with these, but many show horses now are so crazy hot that only a Professional or a talented amateur can control them in the ring. These bits are part of how they control them.
Want to see how some of us still follow the old ways? Just click on my name. (Warning: blatant self-promotion to follow).
Indeed. When I toured the vendors at Mass Morgan in 2010, I could not find a single dressage-legal snaffle anywhere. And yes, some of those show horses are like freight trains, but I always wonder how much of that is in the training — the expectation that the horse will be super-hot and hard to control. My Morgan mare’s grand-dam was a park harness horse, and she knew two speeds — trot like mad, and stop and park out. Took her new owner, once she was out of that world, 2 years to teach the mare to do a flat-footed walk.
(For the record, I do dressage and trail riding with mine, using a KK eggbutt snaffle with a fairly loose flash. She has her “park horse” moments but also has a very good “Stop” button. If we were jumping, I’d likely want a bit more bit, though.)
This is why there are crazy people out there who say all bits are bad. People are so great at using too much, when too little will actually do fine. That shite up there is for the sadists out there. Lots of them in horse-land, apparently.
Oh, and your you-toob link doesn’t work. Please fix?
Great post, thanks for the laugh!
Fixed!
Thanks!
Congrats on the blog nomination!
Those “bits” are all torture devices. They shouldn’t even be sold by reputable tack companies. Putting them in a baby’s mouth–holy crap!?! Way to ruin them for life!
I used to barrel race. I’m glad I used to ride among some contesting people that took pride in being able to ride patterns bridleless. I trained mine to do it too. And they were the ones that did the best. If you need a “bit” like that to control your horse, YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG.
And I just LOVE classes that make riders drop their bits and let the judges inspect them. They should all do that. There are always some tantrums. I saw one monster who’d wrapped barbed wire around the snaffle in their horse’s mouth for western pleasure once. Kudos to that judge for having the stones to do that, and then kick that bastard out.
I have personally only seen these bits used by stock horse people. A girl I worked with as a equine camp counselor rode her QH mare in a twisted wire full cheek, and switched to a super thin twisted wire when she was having a “butthead” day. Another girl started her riding career as a barrel racer and brought her super comfy barrel saddle, some tie-downs and two of the nastiest bits I’ve ever seen, twisted wire gags with looong shanks and rope hackamore nosebands. What was funny was she wrapped the nosebands with vetrap to keep them from irritating the horse’s nose, but she didn’t have a problem putting that nasty wire in a mouth. Those bits were only used on one horse, a rearer that the horse dealer who provided the camp horses sent for a counselor horse. He listened to those bits but the bottom line was he shouldn’t have been there, he should have been with a professional to fix his issues.
My first horse, a sweet, simple QH gelding was ridden by the lady I bought him from in a twisted wire snaffle. She didn’t have control issues, but he was heavy on the hands and she was just too lazy to try to get him in front of her leg; instead she made him lighter in the front by using a big bit. As soon as he came to me I put him in a snaffle and he went fine. Yes, he was heavy on the forehand but I chose to confront that by getting him to move out. I didn’t get him in front of my leg 100% all the time, but he lightened up a lot without resorting to a bunch of wire.
used to work on the backside of the racetrack and this was a very common type of bit
http://www.horsetackinternational.com/dexter-ring-racing-bit.html
http://www.horsetackinternational.com/bmz_cache/b/bc1b15214d96ccea740e652d27d44544.image.200×201.jpg
The Meredith Manor guy calls all this stuff “loud bits” because they each speak volumes instead of whispering to the horse, which is often what the horse needs.
These contraptions are like razor blades in the hands of a monkey. Made my mouth hurt looking at most of them.
I have an OTTB with a narrow palate (not as narrow as some, but not as “broad” as his muzzle would have you believe). He goes very well in a KK Ultra medium weight — the snaffle with the “bean” in the middle. He LOVES that bit and I would try something like THAT first before going to something more extreme. The way to get a horse to go better is to take it back to the snaffle and review the basics.
Period, end of discussion as far as I’m concerned. And I’m not a trainer. I just know what does NOT work with any horse that has issues. A lot of dressage horses that develop tongue problems have been over-bitted. Take them back to the snaffle, work them with basics where they understand drive from behind into a receiving hand and voila. Problem, if not completely solved, certainly made better.
that’s backwards. why do people keep looking at the way people are using them instead of what they’re actually intended for?
twisted bits give an enhanced feel of the cue to the horse, making the cue louder to them, allowing the rider to be quieter. the horse will feel a bridle aid more clearly in a twisted bit than a smooth bit.
Hey everone, I read this blog daily, but I really never have wanted to leave a comment, however, as I agree with most of what is posted above I will say that I personally really enjoy my bit I purchased very similar to the ”chain-o ring”. I have a mare who I have trained since a two year old, she will be five this april. I broke her in a smooth regular snaffle. I had decided to try the chain bit(mine is coated in that black plasticy like film to soften it). My mare absolutly loved it. I found the flexibility it gave her mouth(were it moulded to her tounge, istead of fighting the traditional bars) really put her at ease, it was also more flexible at the corners of her mouth. Mine is around the same guage chain as shown above, the only difference is it has a fixed loop for the reins. She was always sensitive, so I had no need to use the but other than her own personal comfort. I honestly would recommend it for an experienced rider to try on a nearly finished horse. My mare really responded well with it, The flexibility of the bit also really motivated her to collect more into it without fighting because it was more comfortable to her. Her rating for cans improved. I raced her with it, although I use a little ‘s’ hackamore now, I still go back to that bit for light training, or casual rides.
I would like to know if anybody else has tried the bit? And how did you like it?
I have not tried it on my other horses yet.
I REALLY like the information you post, however, I was wondering if you could find new works to take the place of the “f”word. I think you’re overusing and knowing that you are intelligent, I am thinking that you could find better words to express yourself. You could always get a Thesaurus to help you out!
)
Quietann: I love the fire and brilliance of a show Morgan, but breeding for only that fire has produced some horses that are only controllable by very good riders. Superb hands can use some severe bits, but I think bicycle chain bits are not a matter of subtle hands achieving contact, but instead the most severe punishment you can use to keep the harness horse from bolting and causing a wreck in the ring. The park harness horses clearly respect the chain tooths and mostly the driver just maintains steady pressure, but occasionally one will try to bolt and a pop on the bit can bring them back to a trot (usually….) However, even with the severe bits we see in the show ring, we don’t see much of the “jerk and pull” that the warm up rings in some of the stock breeds display. My observation is that Morgans will not put up with much of that sort of treatment. Ex-show horses can be remade and there are a number of instances of Park Horses who moved over to reining and dressage. They are superb athletes, for the most part, who just need to get their mind right. I hope I never breed a Park Harness horse who can only be controlled with a bicycle chain. I have neither the skill nor the desire to use such a bit.
a good topic to add to this would be the “Deborah Dodd vrs Sharon Jeffco” and the horse Misty with the slashed tongue from an improper fitted bit . You can see the Judge Judy results on you tube , it aired Feb,4 2012 . The trainer used a bit that the horse did not like , she continued to trot the horse , and Misty tossed her head this way and that … The trainer then tied the reins to the sturip and whiped the horse with a lunge line …end result , a bloody torn up mouth …. photos are all over FB
Oh dear. That’s the best you can find for abusive bits?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=360422663823
http://www.equinenow.com/store-item-14728
http://tenafoil.info/trammell-thin-wire-offset-dee-snaffle-bit-5.asp
Or just 90% of the bits on this page: http://www.flaniganscowboystuff.com/bits.html
Now, on to my real concern, which has to do with a couple of statements you made.
1. The narrower the mouthpiece, the harsher the bit. Not true. A very thin mouthpiece can be cruel and uncomfortable, but a big mouthpiece in a mouth with a narrow palette can be equally harsh. To some extent, a smaller mouthpiece (diameter) is less the horse has to accommodate into its mouth, less it has to work its tongue around, and less weight if the horse likes to nod or move its head when it works.
2. Chain mouthpieces are cruel. Again, not true. A thin chain with sharp edges can be really harsh. A nice smooth chain with rounded edges might be just the thing for a horse that hates a stiff piece of metal in its mouth. The chain will shift and move as the horse adjusts it in the mouth, and for some horses that’s very comforting. Now, a bicycle chain mouthpiece? Pretty darn vicious.
3. Curb bits are harsher than snaffle bits. Usually true, but if in fact the horse is more comfortable with pressure on its poll and bars and less comfortable with direct pressure or pressure against its teeth, then it may be happier in a curb than a snaffle.
4. Someone spoke up about single jointed bits with gaited horses. I know a lot of people who use them, but my horses have all ridden more quietly and happily if put into a dog bone or french link mouthpiece. A bit with multiple ‘breaks’ in the mouthpiece isn’t automatically more harsh- it just works differently.
In the end, the hands make the bit, within reason. I like the copper on the bits you showed, and I would love to find the exact same loose ring french link or dogbone snaffle, only with a smooth copper mouthpiece instead of twisted. Maybe one will show up some day– for now, I can only find them in twisted wire, so I’m not buying. Ah well.
Oh yeah, there are plenty worse bits out there. It was the marketing attached to these ones “good for starting horses”, etc that caught our eye.
1. Thicker is definitely not always better – a bit that doesn’t fit the horse’s mouth is going to be problematic. But the thinner you go, the more concentrated the pressure from your hands will be. That’s the point we were trying to make.
2. We were thinking of the bicycle chain type bits when referring to them as cruel. I (JG) have never seen a bit quite like you’ve described – it sounds intriguing, although I would still be concerned with the possibility of pinching. Also be interesting to see how that would effect bit placement and it’s action.
3. Curbs work on a system of leverage, meaning the pressure you put on the reins is going to result in greater pressure on the horse’s face than a bit that doesn’t have the leverage factor. Doesn’t mean there aren’t situations where they are appropriate, but a mouthpiece with shanks is going to have a stronger effect than the same mouthpeice without.
4. We love french link bits! Having that double joint negates the issue of the nutcracker effect that can occur with a single joint (the joint closing to the point where it jams into the horse’s palate).
The problem we have with the serious twisted wire or bicycle chain bits is that it eliminates the rider’s ability to offer a full release – those sharp, pointy edges are going to remain in contact with sensitive parts of the horse’s mouth regardless of how soft your hands are.
In the Walking Horse industry those bits combined with a gag like action are very common in the show ring (seen mostly with the Big Lick Performance horses). Its a disgrace in every manner. I have a plethera of bits in my “Bag O Bits” and not one of them are twisted anything or chain anything and nothing with more than 6 inch shank on my curb bits. (ie my “walking horse” bits.) Ignorance is not bliss, esp when dealing with sensitive animals like horses. To much information out there now to be that damned stupid.
Congrats on the rescued pony.
Oh forgot to add…..Morganman is right on target when it comes to some of the Saddlebred types bits out there. they ring true with some of those gastly TWH Performance bits sold at a tack trailor at any sanctioned or Performance TWH show. Although those bits shown are not some I would even begin to think about putting in a horse’s mouth esp a young one’s mouth they are pretty benign compaired to some out there on the sales floors. Does it make these any more right to use? NOPE not at all.
“a stick of dynamite in the wrong hands can wreck havoc but in the right hands pave roads.”
My favorite saying “some people can tear up an anvil.”
My husband says”Even the worst horses in the world, do not need a bit like these. All it will do is make your horse hate you. How stupid of an idiot can you be? I wish somebody would put a bit like it in there mouth and see how they’d like it. Makes good horses bad”
I love him sometime..s lol
Anyone who puts those THINGS in a horses mouth can’t ride for donkeyshit! Though I think THIS bit takes it all…
http://bitandspurcompany.com/products_detail.asp?product_id=122
SERIOUSLY…. WHY? JUST, WHY….?
*shudders* this bit looks like a vegetable peeler and a semi conductor had kinky sex …while a cheese slicer came in for a bit for a dirty threesome…i really don’t know how a horse would close its mouth around that…though from pictures it looks like it needs to be tied shut >.< it is down right terrifying
The tb racing industry here in australia use them, despite them being illegal in many states. It’s so goddam cruel.
Check out Dutton bits and have a field day. I saw, I shit you not, a chain mouthpiece (loose chain, mind you) on a gag shank with a METAL noseband with wire wrapped around it. I wanted to buy them all up and… melt them or something.
twisted bits are fine. they add communication to the mouth. i’ve started horses in smooth snaffles and moved them into twisted mouths after a month. twists give the horse an enhanced feel of the movement of the bit, allowing you to give a quieter and to sit stiller in the saddle.
just because some idiot rode with it doesn’t mean you need to apply the label to everyone. that’s why i give this blog the once a year scan.
you don’t have to post this suggestion, but there are some very fine educational books discussing the science behind bits… Maybe feature those instead of a “well this appears to be cruel so it must be” biased post?
Do you have some titles you could suggest? We’d be happy to read some books on it, and then maybe in turn suggest them to people who make videos like this one
As for the biased post… I freely admit this entire blog is biased against people who abuse horses. I’m ok with that and don’t think it’s a bad thing. Not quite sure why that’s a problem? Maybe you could clarify?
http://www.amazon.com/Bits-Bitting-Manual-William-Langdon/dp/1883714036/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329323145&sr=1-2
That’s one of my favorites.
I guess what I meant is that logically looking at things (not obvious things, like beating a horse in the face trying to get it to load on a trailer or something) like training techniques and bitting techniques, people might have more appreciation for why it isn’t appropriate for their horse, or why it may be appropriate.
I guess if the purpose of the blog is to shock than yes! you’re doing awesome. If the purpose of writing is to educate, then there has to educating point other than overstating an obviously abusive technique. I’m not saying that snarking at improperly used things, like tie downs or twisted bits is wrong, BUT maybe giving people an understanding of what they were originally intended for… it would broaden people’s viewpoints instead of continually making them more and more close-minded. There will always be horrible people doing horrible things, but a broader viewpoint of equipment can open the mind to the logical use of these things in a productive way…….. If more people were taught to be tolerant (and I’m not talking about enabling abuse) of techniques or equipment, they could adapt it to their own practices and communication clearer. Horses like open minds.
A close-minded thought process and promoting ill-education towards techniques/equipment/riding styles is no better than abusive riding in my opinion.
Again, not criticizing!! Just giving a point of view………
haha no worries – we welcome opinions! And you’re not wrong, adding an educational aspect to the posts is typically a goal. There’ll be times when a post will just be snark-centric, and others when we’ll really cram the education and online resources down readers throats!
It’s also a learning experience for us so if we miss a good resource or you have a different point of view – always feel free to express it!
Thanks for sharing the link – I’ll definitely check it out!