A chance to be proactive
Jan 23 2012
One of the Fugly Blog readers recently emailed us about a case in Huntington, Indiana. We took a look at the news story and the accompanying video and thought to ourselves: who the fuck hired this woman as an animal control officer? Don’t you have to at least like horses to work there? Her attitude and body language, to our admittedly untrained eyes, say that she is not happy to be there. She appears to be annoyed with the interview and all the fuss made over the deteriorating health of these horses. Not to mention her incorrect assessment of the overabundance of cribbing due to boredom. [be sure to watch the video before continuing to read]
So we decided to offer our two cents to the investigating reporter. Last night we sent the following email to Drew Blair.
Dear Ms. Blair,
One of our readers forwarded us a link to your article (http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/neighbor-concerned-over-horses-care-dbl). Now, I don’t know if anyone has already contacted you about “cribbing” in horses and the erroneous statements made by Ms. Vanover but in case no one has, here are a few facts about horses.
-Cribbing is a behavior associated with boredom (she was correct there), but it is almost exclusively seen in stabled horses. Horses with grass to eat will not engage in this behavior.
-I have never, in over 15 years of experience, seen a horse crib on a tree, branch or side of a building. In fact, I think it may be impossible – here’s a description of cribbing from horse-cribbing.com “Typically when a horse cribs, he sets his upper teeth on an object (usually about chest level), presses down, opens his mouth, arches his neck, and pulls back” while sucking in air (hence why cribbing is also called “wind sucking”). In fact, if nothing else, it is easier for a horse to crib from a horizontal fence (as seen behind Ms. Vanover – which showed no evidence of cribbing) than a tree, branch or building. Certainly a horse could chew the trees and the side of the building but they would only do this if grass was not available (as in if they were in a sand enclosure rather than a field) or they’re trying to prevent starvation.
-The trees and branches in your video were stripped of bark – that is not indicative of cribbing – there should have been a groove/indentation for the horse to get a foothold (for lack of a better word) with their teeth, allowing them to pull back and suck in more air.
-If the horses had sufficient food in their field, they wouldn’t be leaning so hard on a fence as to almost collapse it, just to get at a few blades of grass. If horses have adequate food, they are not concerned with whether or not the “grass is greener on the other side”
Grass alone is not enough to keep a horse at a healthy weight, especially in the winter – and especially if there are too many horses on too small a piece of land (there are other factors to consider, but aren’t strictly relevant here).
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the rescue efforts that recently occurred on a farm in Many, La. – that was a hell of a lot worse than this case but these horses were starving and fed from trees. Some of them suffered from impaction colic due to the in-digestibility of the bark they ate from trees.
I don’t know what Ms. Vanover’s education or experience with horses is, but it is clear that she does not have their best interests at heart. Hopefully this helps clear up her statements. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
COME ON! For once abuse is being reported before the horses reach a Henneke body scale of 1 and they’re going to do nothing?!
Ok, ok, mini outburst done. We understand that if an animal control officer shows up and the horses have proper food and water there’s probably nothing they can do. But show a little compassion – or at least pretend to while being video taped – and promise to come back and check up on them. Otherwise, the next time you hear about these horses (in a few months time) they will be in “grave danger”, or in the grave itself.
127 comments to “A chance to be proactive”
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While by no means defending this person nor do I think these animals are not in need of help, I’m going to play devils advocate here just a bit. First I will start by stating that I agree the horses are in need of groceries and that the hay they are eating looks like crap. I’m pretty sure my horses would take one sniff of it and turn and look at me as if saying “REALLY? You expect me to eat THIS?”
But… First, the mud. I too live in Indiana and while not in Huntington not that far away. We have had an EXTREMELY mild winter here and mud is EVERYWHERE. The ground is mostly frozen except for the very top that is either lightly frozen in ruts and pits if it recently snowed (as it did Thursday) or in mud as seen in the video if it rained as it did last night. (I mean really, a Thunderstorm in Northern Indiana in January is weird!) My barnlot is either a mud bog or a twisted ankle waiting to happen and I can do nothing about it.
The barked tree. I truely believe that there are some trees the horses like the taste of the bark. I have a field that I have let horses in for the first time this past year and the first thing they did was bark some of the trees. Not all, but some. Some were sassafrass. I’m not too sure what the other was but it’s barked just like the one in the picture – as hgh as the horses can reach. Other trees they have left entirely alone. If animal control were to come to my place I might be sited for extreme animal care – in that all of my horses are OBESE – and yet they barked the trees.
And lastly the cribbing. In your letter you state that no horse outside will crib. BULL PUCKY. I had a mare that lived to be twenty-six that I owned since she was four, and she cribbed every day of her life regardless of what I did. I tried every type of cribbing strap known to man. Every type of wood treatment. and in the end I just gave up. She was going to crib wether inside or out. I ran a hot wire just inside the fence to keep her off the top board, she figured out how to get a hold of the second board. I ended up with hot wires everywhere and designating one specific place as “hers” and not having a hot wire there and just replacing that board as needed. She had turnout 24/7. It is odd that the board fence is chew free if the horses were indeed cribbing.
All that being said – Owner buy your horses some decent groceries and FEED IT TO THEM!
Have to second the cribbing/wind sucking thing. I have a 16 yo gelding that to this day will suck wind in the field.. He is out with two other horses.. with no stress issues. on a field that is 10 acres.. he doesn’t even need to crib “on” anything.. can gulp air on his own.. real talent there.. and still the hardest horse to keep weight on because he will gulp air instead of eating like the other two!
Throw me in with these guys, we have 4 cribbers in our boarding barn, one is fully stabled, the other three stay out, one of those you can keep under control with a collar, the other two stand out in the pasture half the day sucking on fence posts while the other horses graze. One does it so bad that the underside of her neck is horribly over-developed and disgusting.
I third that I had a horse who only cribbed outside- on posts mostly, but anything he could get hold of really. Boredom, pure and simple. Wish I had known about bi-carb or Omiprazalone back then, but once he was tucked up warm for the night with plenty of hay he settled down and did not crib at all.
We also had a cribber that would crib anywhere – inside/outside didn’t matter, his stall was set up with no edges he could get a hold of (a strap would have him thrashing on the ground like he was choking – even if it were too loose to work) so he would rear up and grab the upper floor supports – no lie, I’ve never seem anything like it before or after that horse.
I think the issue at hand is having a supposedly knowledgeable animal control officer who sees a bunch of chewing going on and calls it cribbing. They are two very different beasts. As for state of the board fence in the background– it was new, hence the lack of damage.
On to true cribbing, or windsucking. While sitting at your computer, reading this post, starting taking about three or four really deep, really fast breaths. Come on, don’t wimp out! “Crib” for a moment while in your seat. Wait, not that much, you’ll pass out! Phew, okay, that was a close one. You just experienced a bit of an oxygen rush, which is exactly what a cribbing horse gets when it windsucks. Cribbing starts out as something to do, but it quickly becomes addictive. The horse will become attached to that ‘high’ for the rest of its life, going so far, as people have noted, to actually stand in the middle of a field and crib without grabbing a single thing. I’ve seen skinny horses that would stand at their feeders and choose cribbing over eating. Pretty sad, huh?
Agreed, some horses are just going to crib no matter what. I rode a schoolie when I was in my teens who figured out how to crib on the lead rope he was tied with in the split second between halter off/bridle on. *That* took some talent and dedication to the cause, I assure you!
I’ve heard some people claim that horses with a diehard stable vice like cribbing or weaving come by it genetically. I find it hard to believe and lean more toward the idea that their dams taught the behavior to them as foals, but I was wondering of anyone else had heard of a similar theory?
We owned an appaloosa mare whose babies were all mouthy. They played with their tongues, sticking them out of their mouths, running them along the wire partitions in their stalls, or just hanging them out the sides of their mouths. Mom NEVER did this, yet every single one of her babies did so. They weren’t overly stalled (daily turn out), nor was there any connection to the stallions– they had different sires.
I would guess that stable vices, like any other habits, are to some extent the result of a genetic predisposition. I have a line in my own family that has to wiggle one foot to relax or fall asleep. If we hold our feet still, we can’t sleep. I’ve seen this behavior in very young babies in our family, so unless it is learned in utero, there must be some genetic leaning there.
So if a particular bloodline of horses ‘likes to move’, then perhaps we have our genetic ‘weavers’ and ‘pawers’. Genetically fixated on mouths? Perhaps that is our chewers, cribbers, and tongue players. Genetically wired to have sensitive backs? That’s our line of cold backed horses.
That being said, I want to say that I’ve never in my entire life ever met a pasture raised horse with a bad repetitive habit like cribbing or weaving. Once the habit is formed, I’ve seen them keep it in the open, but I’ve never seen a properly raised outdoor horse, well socialized, that had such habits. I’m sure they are out there, but I’ve never seen one yet.
I agree with most of the blog entry says but…… my first horse was a cribber. And he cribbed outside all the time. He could be standing in lush grass up to his eyeballs and he would find something to crib on. A tree branch, fence post, the side of the barn. He could even crib with a grazing muzzle on. And a cribbing collar didn’t help at all.
And for barking trees. I too have found that my horses just love certain kinds of trees and if they are available, they will chew them. They love maple trees and birches. They never touch the pine or hemlock trees.
…and yet, there was no evidence of cribbing before the hay ran out and the horses got ribby.
Probably anyone who’s been around more than a few horses has known a serious cribber. What we didn’t see was any evidence of actual cribbing– just ribby horses, wood-chewing and eating bark.
Absolutely agree with everything, except the cribbing thing. Cribbing is when the horse can reach a solid surface, wind-sucking is when they cannot. Yes, wind-sucking can pertain to mares, on the other end of things. I’ve seen horses cribbing on the walls of their stall. Horses with tons of turn-out/full t/o, lots of exercise, still loved their cribbing. sigh. If only horse people could all have the same knowledge, all at once.. And agree with it, and and and..
And yeah, those horses don’t have a cribbing problem, they have a lack of food problem.
anyway, the AC officer is probably related to the person who put Chief in the garage. “I’ve seen worse!” DOG, I hate those words. This isn’t a contest!! HOW DOES THAT EXCUSE anything that you see there? Those horses are skinny, because they need food. They will crib, as Chief did, when there is nothing else to do. Horses NEED to eat, ffs. They’ll eat ANYthing, once they get hungry enough. Ask Chief, he chowed down on particle board panels.
RIP, Apalachian Chief.
I hope the horses in this story get the hell outta there. Worse means dead.
Just wanted to say I have a horse with plenty to eat and 24/7 turnout who still cribs. We used the collar on him for a bit but poor guy he just seemed happier when he was able to do his thing. I have crib proofed the barn and turnout area for him so its not a big deal. The other part of this entry I am wondering about is the weight drop of the horses since the summer months. Miss NC State is supposedly being a good citizen by ratting out her neighbor for possible neglect, ,maybe so, but if you have a horse who drops some weight in the winter months despite proper health care and feeding does that make you a neglectful owner? While I’m all for stopping neglect I often wonder if anyone tries to ask what ‘s really going on or actually tries to help these people with their animals before automatically assuming the worse? If we’re all horse lovers aren’t we all supposed to be on the same team?
When a horse drops weight sure there could be underlying issues – age for one. But when all 5 dramatically drop weight? And what about the neighbor reporting that she hadn’t seen the horses with hay in quite some time?
Exactly. Add to that, she might be in a place where she could get in trouble for throwing hay over the fence herself…though I have done it myself in some situations. But the OWNER needs to be made to be responsible, and not with just one shitty round bale. That’s cattle feed as far as I am concerned.
I reported a gypsy horse that was given a round bale a month- this may seem adequate but that was it, one bale a month, no care, no-one coming to look at him. The neighbours were filling his water bath up. Towards the end of the month, every month, there were days when he had nothing at all. This had a knock on effect of making him stand and eat like crazy when the bale arrived, so it lasted less time. Eventually I logged ten days without food. I called the RSPCA- who I had called three times before, and told them I was taking the story to the local papers. Next day a team was out there- because they are bloody gypsies they get help, no-one comes and helps me with my fences- they got a new stretch of fence and a shed. But I can honestly say I never saw the horses there without food again- I go past at least once a day and I always look.
That’s a dramatic weight drop, and like I said, some of them look to be developing rain rot. That’s not just a winter weight drop. That shit round bale out there under no shelter is not proper food either. That thunderstorm that just passed through here over to there is going to have that just being a pile of soggy, moldable muck.
I also noticed a feed bin hanging on the fence, and if any feed gets put into it, that’s a perfect recipe for one dominant horse to get the majority of the food and the others to get little to none. Feeding horses loose off feed bins on a fence is NOT a proper way to feed them.
Dropping some weight is one thing – but if the horse has prominent hips bones and every rib is visible from a distance, then you need to change your feeding routine, call your vet, or at the very least, euth the horse. These horses haven’t lost a FEW pounds.
The horses are underweight and that should be attended to, certainly.
However, as a point of information, I’ve had and seen horses of good weight with plenty of feed and pasture debark trees and chew wood fences.
The neighbor stated that this is the first time they have been fed hay all winter. Judging from the look of things, the horses were dropped into a pasture with grass and after it was all eaten, no hay was brought. Hopefully, the owner will keep giving out hay now that they know someone is watching.
Well, the investigator was right in stating that the horses weren’t in ‘grave danger’ BUT her disinterest in the investigation of the case (that IS her job) is what needs correcting. The horses weren’t going to starve overnight so does that mean we look at scores of 2-3 as acceptable? Ummm, no we don’t. Not if we’re doing our job which is investigating animal neglect (ding, ding!) and cruelty. There was no reason for her to act so lax and defensive of the owner. Her responsibility is to assess the scene, make an immediate determination on the degree of neglect and then act appropriately. She didn’t and ended up making herself look like an ignorant hillbilly. Professionally, you surely don’t defend the owners on camera and you also don’t attack them either. You state what you know or observed and calm the public by stating that all necessary measures will be taken to ensure the safety and well being of the animals. And then you MEAN it.
My horses chew trees all the time, especially the geldings. They will walk away from hay to chew on trees. There’s something in the trees that they crave. Neither cribs, and if you tucked their legs up neatly at the top of a mountain they would roll quite well to the bottom. They are also 6’s on the scale and eat 3-4 flakes of hay twice a day, more when it’s really cold. Plus grain. Plus alfalfa cubes. Plus salt blocks. The day you can see their ribs from the road is the day you can have them.
I wish there was a Ding,Ding,Ding button. This exactly. Just do your F’ng job AC.
My mares nickname in the wet, Muddy winter was Woodchuck. Out of bordom she created artwork. After finishing off her nurishing hay, under a dry roof she would decorate the shelter. One year her neighbor taught her how to wittle at the tree branches (only that one year the neighbor was there).
But these horses are Hungry.
I know AC folks and this kind of shit makes them cry.
The AC investigators in my State would be on this like white on rice. I’m not saying they would march in and immediately seize the horses but they sure as shit wouldn’t be acting like this dimwit. I’ve seen them in action both in and out of court. They are always professional, mother bear passionate and latch onto abusers like pit bulls. The key is, with the camera on you need to be mature and knowledgeable. When you leave the scene, call a friend or coworker and rant your ass off – if these people don’t deserve to blow off steam after all they see, then nobody does. They told me that I should go work with them. Ummm, no. The first time some moron with a starving, bloody or sick animal started ranting all the bullshit lies to me, I’d go off and probably get arrested myself. I’m not sure if I could do that type of work day in and day out. It’s really heartbreaking for the elite who take their jobs seriously. They see more filth than anyone should ever have to see.
If you’re an AC investigator with the grit I described, hats off to you and keep up the great work. I don’t think you’re rewarded often enough for what you do.
I once went on a group trail ride, where we stopped for lunch and the horses were all tied to overhead picket lines. I heard a funny sound and looked over to see a horse cribbing on his overhead tie rope. I would have thought it impossible, since there was nothing for him to “brace” his teeth on on a flexible vertical rope. He was not chewing. He’d some how get his teeth wrapped around it, arch his neck, and gulp air with his nose pointed up. I never saw a cribber do that before. His owner said that he cribs anywhere and on anything. I have to assume that the poor horse had some type of underlying medical problem he was trying to resolve ( like ulcers ) in any way he could. And, knowing the owners, I am sure they never even bothered to find out if there was a cause for their poor horse’s un-comfort.
First of all, that officer doesn’t have a clue, and obviously doesn’t want one. “Cribbing” my ass. Cribbing and eating bark or wood is NOT the same thing. The horses are thinner than they look because their winter coats are hiding some of the bones. Those horses are 1.5-2, with worm loads, in cold and wet weather. They will soon not be able to keep themselves from freezing because they won’t have enough body mass. The hay, that according to the neighbor was the first they’d had in a month, was crap. Did anyone notice the new rails on the fence? Guess the horses ate those, too. Doesn’t it make you think, what with the replaced rails and the sudden appearance of hay, that the owner was tipped off about the visit?
What Skyrockpoas said.
I was thinking the same thing about the new boards on ALL the fences. Obviously the owner was trying to hide how desperate the horses were for food. If all the boards in the pasture had been chewed down to nothing, it would have been a lot harder for the AC officer to claim it was just normal cribbing.
Someone definitely was tipped off.
And oh, yes, that hay is crap! I rather doubt that has enough nutrients to put weight on the horses. Again, it’s only there for appearances. “Look! They have food!”
The neighbor was right in calling Animal Control, the animals were not being fed. And now she needs to deal with an idiot AC and probably pissed off neighbor. Poor woman probably didn’t know what she was getting into. I can just imagine the AC knocking on the door of the horse owner and with a *wink, wink* followed her duty in stating a complaint had been filed, but also trash talking the complaintant.
The AC needs to go down to the library and check out a book on proper horse care, they even have them written using simple words.
The Horses.Were.Not.Being.Fed.
I think animal-control officers often don’t know that horses are not supposed to look like dairy cows. A dairy cow can have a prominent backbone and jutting hipbones and still be in a good weight. A horse that looks like a dairy cow (like the ones behind the woman speaking in the video) is a horse in POOR condition. I find that this is a better indicator than ribs, or the condition of trees in the pasture. Some horses just like to eat tree bark. By the way, if the bark is gone all the way around, even in a narrow strip, the tree will die.
I have not seen the video since it came out, but don’t they have nylon halters on the horses? In a pasture full of old tree branches, etc? There’s a great idea– NOT.
These horses are in POOR condition. They are not in critical condition at the time of the video, but if they are not fed better, they will die. It may take all winter, but it will happen.
I meant to say that I watched the video when it first came on here, but have not re-watched it since.
I say it’s my tax dollars going to pay the morons, so if we’re going to have to feed welfare kids three meals a day at school and babysit them afterwards, we can provide proper materials and body score scales to animal control officers.Maybe she should use herself to judge by, since she obviosuly hasn’t missed a meal in quite some time.
To quote the late Sam Kinison: “Why don’t you throw him your fuckin sandwich you brought for the day, bub? YOU’RE RIGHT THERE!!!”
I wonder what the criteria is for that position. Stands upright and has a valid driver’s license? It’s like hiring a Smart Car driver to take the wheel of a big rig. This dog ain’t hunting!
What is a normal dairy cow supposed to look like? I honestly have no idea and I used to drive by a dairy every day right around evening milking so the cows were hanging around the lot close to the road. I never thought anything of it, but my former boss – who drove the same route – was always lamenting the terrible conditions and starving dairy cows and wondering why nobody ever did anything about it. Not that *she* did anything about it either, other than complain to me about cows standing in mud (it was April in WI, if there’s not snow, there’s mud, end of story). They all had prominent hip bones and spines, but looked otherwise round everywhere else and they were always eating off a dumpster-sized feeder full of some kind of cow food. I figured that was just the way dairy cows looked!
Dairy cows have a much leaner body than a beef cow, especially Holsteins. (black and white) Their pins (hips) are typically quite visible as well as a couple of ribs possibly, but any more than that – as in the backbone sticking up or all ribs being prominent, is skinny. Plus if they’re not fed well, they don’t produce well so there’s no benefit to not feeding them adequately. Around here, most are fed fermented corn silage supplemented with grain or alfalfa hay. They need high fat, high protein to produce milk. They don’t have much access to exercise so their musculature is slight. Don’t get me going on the cows that live 24/7 in stanchions. Such a sad existence.
Dairy cows will be at different weights depending on which point in lactation and pregnancy they are…at peak lactation it is physically impossible for a dairy cow to consume enough calories to match output (especially since you are feeding a rumin and not a cow…ruminants can starve while eating because of how long it takes for the food to make it from mouth to intestines)…especially the way they are bred here in the states to be super producers…at this point they are “milking off their backs” and so drop weight…if they drop too much weight they won’t get pregnant again so it is in the dairy man’s best interest to make sure they don’t lose too much because a cow that stays empty is a cow that gets sent to the meat man (according to one study that a professor showed me, American cows rarely make it past 4 years…though that could be an average thing and regions differ…some had their most productive season as 2 year olds…which is depressing from the New Zealand perspective where cows will make 7-8 years and still be producing well while being purely grass fed)…
it is pretty expensive to replace a dairy cow since you have to raise the calf so that she meets all of her weight goals on time so she can be bred at the proper weight so that she can have an easy pregnancy and delivery…too much fat on the cow will narrow the gap in the pelvis and make calving more difficult…so it is a pretty delicate science to make sure cows are at the right weights at the right times and to know your herd well enough to know when something is off…which is increasingly difficult as herd size increases…which is why there are so many young cows being sent to slaughter
so yeah…dairy cow healthy picture is different depending on what stage of lactation and pregnancy she is in and it is a fine line that the dairyman walks to match input to output to maximize profits and minimize wastage
On a visual test of a dairy animal (cow or goat) you should be able to see two things– a certain quantity (in goats it is about a handful) of extra flesh behind their elbow, where their foreleg meets their barrel. Over their rump, you should be able to see their backbone, and their hips, but you should not be able to see either set of ligaments attaching their tailhead to their hips, nor should you be able to palpate and feel more than the lower set of ligaments. In other words, the backbone and hipbones protrude, but the flesh shouldn’t dramatically sink in around those bones. Beyond that, dairy ribs are larger and more spaced than the ribs on meat animals, and they are overall a larger boned breed, so they should in fact look ‘bonier’.
For me, I mentally picture a skinny supermodel– there are thin supermodels who still have flesh over their bones, no circles under their eyes, and an overall healthy (if skinny) appearance. There are other models who just don’t look healthy– their skin is too tight over their bones, there are areas of their body where essential fat should be and isn’t. Dairy animals are similar– thin and healthy is okay, emaciated and unhealthy is not.
I guess I am gonna have to add my 2 cents in here…
For one, there are way too many horses on that, what, 2+ acres of mudhole? It looks as though these people bought a few horses, or perhaps just moved there (evidence of new board fencing) with their horses in hope of having them in their back (or front) yard? But they did not realize that they would have to have a relief area when utillizing such small acreage for 5 horses. They did not “drop a few pounds” since summer, when pasture was new and fresh. These horses look to have lost 75-100 pounds each. That is cignificant weightloss in my book and should have been recognized and addressed long before this point.
Cribbing is not a habit born of all and every horse. It is typically a self-taught behavior born of a young horse while weaning and an imbalance of protien and insulin resistance (still in the studying phases). My 2 horses chew up a tree and anything they think will replace the fiber they are missing in their diet during winter months. They will do more damage in the fields that have less grass. Wood chewing is said to become of a lacking in the diet, like fiber. They need more hay if grass is not available.
That animal control officer is a dumbass and needs to go to school for the job. But, like the AC in my own area, it’s a job and that’s all they will put into it. Typically the community doesn’t have the funding to improve their force, or even care unless enough people step in. This is the case in my own area. Our AC has given the same response to a near starved dog: “I’ve seen worse” and did nothing since the dog was still able to walk. (some of you might remember my talking of the dog living on a southern exposed deck in 110 degree temps with no cover in direct sunlight and how I had to make continued complaints before something was done)
In this case, I think the horse owners need more educating. That is if they are receptive to it. Many people get very defensive when it comes to being criticized and one must do it in a very tactful manner, or have an authoritive figure step in and do it. The AC here is not the right one. She doesn’t know her ass from a hole in the ground. She has the attitude of not wanting to do any more than absolutely necessary. We call that L-A-Z-Y! Another approach is merely writing a letter and suggesting, with a diagram about setting up small grazing areas with a relief area around the shelter. I bet that would accomplish more than raising a fuss with the law.
My BO has a mare who cribs. Badly. Worst I’ve ever seen.
She arrived in the barn somewhere between a 2 and a 2.5. Most of us suspect she was cribbing to suppress her appetite…the habit reduced significantly once she realized the hay wasn’t going away. But it hasn’t *stopped*. Once a horse starts cribbing, it is pretty much impossible to stop them.
But I agree that barking trees is a completely different thing.
Yes, a confirmed cribber will crib even if they have pasture available, and any horses will strip bark off trees in winter (sometimes in other seasons too) but like the OP said, there looks to be no evidence of cribbing on the fence, which is what a REAL cribber would head to first. And is this AC officer trying to say that ALL FIVE of these horses are confirmed cribbers? She’s obviously a disinterested party…look at the eye roll she keeps giving in the video. “I’ve seen worse”, she says…yeah, well so have I! Seen them same thing happen on a farm where food and hay was AVAILABLE but not being GIVEN. Horses looking worse than those do, and still nothing done except “coaching” by the authorities notified. Three horses died at the place I am describing, and still no horses confiscated because no one saw the bodies.
These horses in the video look to me like they could be showing some signs of rainrot too, which means their immunity is being compromised. This happens a LOT in horses that are STARVING. I’m sure this disinterested piece of work doesn’t even know what that is. She needs to lose her job and go work scraping dog shit out of a kennel somewhere, because she obviously doesn’t have the observation power of a black-eyed pea. The reporter looks to be more knowledgable, but I bet she gets paid more to be a news reporter than an animal control officer does. Too bad, because the animals could use her help to make their case!
I thought that was rain rot I was seeing. But like I said in a comment below, I don’t have horses, what do I know? (Even though I have been looking and reading and researching and talking to other owners and volunteering at boarding stables to prepare myself as much as possible, and still expecting the unexpcted for one for the past 20+ years of my nearly 31 on this Earth.)
I also just thought I’d say, hats off to the Fort Wayne news for reporting this! This puts the neglectful owner under the microscope! I wish we got this kind of action in Chicago against asshat owners!
First I have to agree on two things.
One: ONE horse dropping weight could be a health issue, age issue, dominance issue, etc…. (My 4 year old was being chased off her hay and dropped about 100 lbs, I was horrified and immediately moved her (she had a blanket on so its harder to tell at first) she now gets fed alone, and I have doubled her beet pulp and hay until she puts the weight back on)
Two: Im glad something was done before they got to a 1 and were half dead
Ok now thats done, I have seen horses eat trees, branches, etc… even with a ton of good hay infront of them. Mine do it (and they are all tipping the edge of overweight right now)
Im glad that horses are still relatively healthy. With some food and time to gain weight they should be fine. I think the neighbor was a little TOO impulsive. Did she try talking to her neighbor first? Or did she just jump on calling AC? Just walking up to the door and asking “Is everything ok? Your horses have dropped weight and its concerning me.” And offer to help.
It’s possible that you don’t live in Indiana– one of the comments on the news report ran something along the lines of, “Nosy neighbors need to butt out before ‘something’ bad happens to them.”
Yea… I’m going to the authorities with my complaints, NOT directly to a neighbor like that! Obviously there is no way of knowing if the person who commented was the actual owner, but it’s certainly enough to make a samaritan nervous.
I feel that if you know the neighbor fairly well, it might be more courteous to try to help them before calling AC. That said, when you start pulling the bucket out of the well be prepared for just about anything. A high percentage of animal neglect cases invove the use of drugs and alcohol. What is that saying? Instant asshole, just add alcohol. Better not to step too close and find yourself in a situation with a drunken idiot in your face threatening to burn your house down or some stupidity. And most of us know, there’s no reasoning with a drunk. Those cases are best left for the authorities…with the complainant very close behind the investigators.
Just have to say that I actually HAVE seen a few horses crib on a tree before, but it usually only occurs with horses who have been cribbing in a stall for years… The AC officer was obviously incorrect :[ Hope the horses get help
I would really like to know why the neighbour should risk being shouted at or punched in the face in order to approach the owner?
There has been NO hay out there, all winter. Why bother to approach the owner?
It is obvious they do not think they need to feed their horses.
Would I risk approaching the owners?
No way, that is what AC is paid for.
Punch an AC officer and you will end up in jail.
Punch your neighbour and it is a “domestic” and the Police do not usually bother too much about that!
I would never intervene, there is no way I am helping pay for the horses feed so what am I going to say?
“Feed your horses or I call AC” ?
No, just call AC, never interfere directly.
I am the neighbor and I did talk to the neighbor before. To be honest we were quite friendly since she moved in. I’m not going to get to personal with this, but she just couldn’t afford to feed them, that was my understanding, we hooked her up with someone that sells hay around here and they just weren’t getting fed right. There are so many people out here willing to help if she would have just asked for it. I was tired of seeing the horses starving so I contacted AC. Nothing was happening, they still weren’t being fed and since it was getting cold I decided to shed some light on the situation and bring it to a more public level. The AC here in Huntington has a bad habit of leaving things until animals die and I wasn’t going to watch a horse die because nothing was being done. if you’ve heard of the llama case that’s only one example (http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/video/Animals-Fatally-Neglected-At-Llama-Farm-120879169.html) A lot of people have said it’s none of my business and she can do as she wishes with her horses, but I wasn’t going to watch them die because she refused to feed them. That’s just my opinion.
Hats off to you! It can be so frustrating trying to help people in a friendly way when they don’t want to be bothered. Good for you to keep stirring the pot until something got done for the horses! I know I wouldn’t want to look out my window and see my neighbor’s animals slowly starving to death, especially not if there were resources available to help!
Thank you for being the voice for those horses. I do hope it makes a difference in their care and you and your family remain safe in light of the media attention. The world is a better place with people like you in it and you made a world of difference to those horses.
Kudos to you for stepping in and ding something about these horses! You did the right thing. It is much easier to manage this situation at this point before the horses get emaciated. I also want to add that just because there is food on the property doesn’t mean the horses are getting the proper amounts to keep weight on during the winter. I feed almost no grain in the summer but increase it through the winter to ensure mine don’t loose weight. I feed them a complete feed and supplement with hay. Each feed has a minimum recommended daily intake to ensure the horse is getting all of the nutirents it needs. She would be better off trying to rehome a few of them to get her feed bill down.
VERY well done, Heather. To be honest, it was so much nicer to see a news story about ‘something needs to be done’ instead of seeing one like the llama case: ‘something SHOULD have been done’.
Are you free to give us an update? Has the situation improved in your opinion since the news story was released?
As of now I’m not sure what is being done, I know the case is still open and the state has gotten involved. My neighbor actually moved the horses to a different property since the news cast, I think probably just to keep them out of my sight so i don’t cause any more problems for her. I was told that the owner moved them to a different property that will provide better shelter for the horses for the winter. I don’t know any more than that, but I’m working with someone to keep on the case. I don’t know if the owner will bring the horses back to her property or not so we’ll see if anything happens.
Stay on top of the situation and dog’em…the asshole I knew who did this kind of thing just moved from property to property doing the same. I hope y’all can run ‘em out of town.
Thankyou for the nice response! I wasnt trying to be a *insert your prefered word here*. Just know that I have had AC called on me before people talked to me to find out what was going on (NEVER for starving horse, normally mine tend to look like pickles on toothpicks, the arab cross I talked about is gaining hers back and Im kicking myself in the ass for that one). For example had a 2 year old stud colt I purchased gelding. He had white legs. The day after I took him out to walk and wanted to hose the blood off his legs. Had a nice visit from AC that I was beating my horse with the hose. If they had just talked to me, I would have showed them the receipt and instructions from my vet.
So GOOD FOR YOU by going through the steps of being a good neighbor and finding out WHY before jumping the gun, and then calling AC and making sure the care was done!
We can be activists for our horses and still help each other out before attacking eachother.
There’s a place near me where the horses are in the same shape, if not worse. Muddy pastures, fences falling down, rainrot, overcrowding. Most of the horses have visible ribs, some with bony hips too. I have contacted animal control several times and I never get a response back and the horses condition continues to get worse. I am beginning to think that animal control will not do anything until the horses are actually dying… has anyone been in a situation like this and gone to the local news? What were your results?
Alert the media, preferably someone who does a column featuring animals in a sympathetic light. Sometimes the media is the only card you can play.
That’s… infuriating. No, the horses don’t look “that” bad right now (though they still aren’t great), and it’s possible the owner doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing. But the officer should know that looks can be decieving! To just look at my dog (15 mo old lhasa apso), he looks fat. But he’s not, he’s got about 4 inches of coat, extra fluffy for the winter. The dog we just put down a week ago today (15+ yr. old border collie) looked like she was at a good weight, but she’d gotten light enough for me to lift her on my own, and she lost almost a full pound in 10 days, even though we’d upped her food, from 2 cups to 3+/day as she’d lost several lbs prior to that. (Fuck cancer, btw.) She was the same weight as my mom’s standard daschund/red heeler mix (who is fffaaaattttt and I keep getting onto my mom’s case about her).
I would almost guarantee those horses will not look as fat as they do now come summer, if they survive.
Also, not all horses will reach through a fence. There’s a boarding barn up the street from me, near a school and a busy road. The horses do not need to be leaning on that fence, so there are 3 strands of hot wire inside the fence. Even on the un-wired fences, the horses don’t reach through. The owner of the barn will drop 2-3 flakes of hay in a spot, then walk a little bit and drop another 2-3 flakes, and another and so-on so the horses a) move and b) stay a little more interested in their side of the fence.
And when I worked there, there was one horse that cribbed. And she wouldn’t stop despite all the stuff she had to help prevent boredom and the cribbing collar, it was a comfort thing for her, they figured (OTTB, if I remember correctly). But none of them ate the trees.
I do have to agree with skyrockpoas, I think the owners were tipped off. All of those boards have been replaced, but the posts were not. And those horses seem much more interested in their hay than the trees. Even with a pile of brand new hay, it seems weird to me that all five would just be stuffing their faces at the same time, instead of, you know, wandering, or as the officer said, trying to get to the grass on the other side of the fence since ALL horses will apparently ALWAYS do that.
But hey, I don’t have a horse of my own yet, what do I know!
… But I do know that sagging fence is not safe. Holy hell.
I’m surprised so few people have commented on the conspicuously new boards on the fence. Obviously the horses were eating through those too, and the boards had to be replaced, either because they were tipped off about the visit or because the horses had eaten clean through them.
I’m also surprised so few people commented on the quality of the hay. It’s better than no hay… but not by much. Obviously it was only there so that the owner could point to it and say, “See? I feed them!”
Like someone else said above, it’s clear the owner was tipped off that AC was coming.
I’m commenting on the quality of the hay because it is shit and it’s a bubble-gum-and-scotch-tape fix. It’s not nutritious, it just gives the illusion that “Hey! Someone’s feeding the horses!” And now that we have had a good set of thunderstorms roll through the area, they will have a nice pile of mushy weed, seeing as there’s no proper shelter anywhere in sight and that cow-filler wasn’t under one either.
Somewhat OT, but beef cattle should not look like dairy cattle either. Near where I used to work, there was a small pasture full of Scotch Highlanders. No shelter, not even a windbreak — unless you count the numerous round bales that were on the other side of the fence, in sight but not in reach. Round bales were brought in with decreasing frequency as the winter went on, and I started to get worried. Then one day I came in to work after a few days off and there was no evidence of any hay having been given in the meantime. One of the animals was lying there as flat as a rug — dead. It has died in the area where the food used to be brought, hopelessly waiting for relief.
That was the last straw. I called and called everybody I could think of, animal control, state police, state department of health. The replies I got were maddening and absurd. I was informed that the situation was being taken care of. I was told that this department couldn’t do anything because some other department was doing something. The investigation was ongoing. We can’t interfere with the other department. The cattle are “fine.” It went on and on. Finally the second day I got through to somebody with a brain and they came with equipment and took down the fence between the cattle and the hay and let the poor things eat. By my estimation, they had not had anything to eat for 5-7 days.
Did I mention that it was below 0 degrees Fahrenheit with winds of 10-30 mph during this time?
According to my vet, a horse typically will gnaw on the bark of trees only when they don’t have enough forage in their diet. So this could indicate that the horses are not being fed well.
Not so. Horses will gnaw on bark whenever they like, especially on trees they find tasty. It looks like this bunch could find anything tasty…good thing the reporter stayed on her side of the fence.
My horses have eaten the bark off some trees (particularly yummy ones, I guess) even when they were in a lush pasture. It didn’t much please my husband, since this pasture is in front of our house, and they were gorgeous trees. They were on good pasture 24/7, fed a daily ration balancer, and had a salt block, so I don’t think it was diet related. Someone told me the trees are sweet when the sap is rising, but I don’t know if that is it, or if they just enjoyed getting me to come out there and try and stop them.
I’ve experienced the same thing with my kid… In very good weight, on good pasture, but every spring was eating the bark off this maple-type tree that leaned over the back fence. He hasnt done it to another tree since, so I figure it was something he found tastey.
That said, if they’re eating everything in sight and you can see ribs though a winter coat, it’s not “Hey, this tree is sweet and yummy!” it’s “Hey, this tree is edible where the mud and dirt isnt!”
@ Morley…that is exactly what got the investigators and local officials going in the case against Lowell Friday in MN.
“If the horses had sufficient food in their field, they wouldn’t be leaning so hard on a fence as to almost collapse it, just to get at a few blades of grass. If horses have adequate food, they are not concerned with whether or not the “grass is greener on the other side””
Not the case. We have plenty of fat horses that will lean over the fences (or under for that matter) to get that grass they are convinced is so much better. I even own a horse who would occasionally jump into a new pasture when he decided the hay/grass looked better… or even if the company looked better.
For the cribbing topic, we’ve also got a gelding who picked up that nasty habit by being stalled next to an obsessive cribber (I have never been at that barn when he wasn’t cribbing). So whether turned out or stalled, he’ll crib (or attempt to crib, as we keep a collar on him) and he’ll crib a lot!
Yes, fat horses will lean on fences. BUT, These horses are Not fat.
I didn’t say that these particular horses aren’t skinny, but to say that a horse who’s being fed properly will not care about the grass he can’t reach just isn’t true and I personally believe that if you are going to write a letter to prove a point then you need to do so with factual information so that there aren’t things to be easily disputed to take away from the bigger reason for writing the letter in the first place.
Though I by no means think that the animal control officer in this situation is correct. The fact is, “losing a few pounds” in winter isn’t acceptable and an animal control officer who is supposed to know what they are doing shouldn’t think that’s okay. It’s not okay, and in reality, horses are better off putting on MORE weight in the winter as it helps keep them warm. Even the horses we keep inside and blanketed get extra hay in the winter. Though of course, we know how to feed, so the only time we have a skinny horse is when we get it from someone else.
This humane officer’s attitude is so condescending it’s sickening. She acknowledges that the horse’s have lost weight yet laughs off everything the compaint had as evidence of negligence. This is why we need animal control officers who actually take their job seriously and know a little something about the animals they are supposed to protect. The current woman in charge of our animal shelter is a bit like this woman. Mostly clueless and completely uncaring of the animals they are dealing with.
My fat ponies are part beaver. Some will chew and spit, others will eat it. They’re bored. Its much worse in winter when they have no turnout. But I cant feed them “nibble hay”, otherwise, they would all be too fat to walk!
Yes, but the difference is you can’t give your guys hay 24/7 because they are already fat and happy…
Not so in this case.
I live in Indiana, about an hour from Huntington County. There have been several posts on here that are very accurate about the mud and the mess we live in right now. However, I’m going to point out something no one has mentioned yet, even though ALL of you are probably going to say, “oh yeeeeaaaa…”
Take a really good look at the mud where the horses are. There are a couple of clear shots of the fence line, the entire paddock (I refuse to call it a pasture), and their shelter. Find the area where they have been fed hay. Can’t do it, can you? That mud is even, all around. If hay is fed to horses on the ground in Indiana during the winter, you have a mucky muddy churned up mess. You lose hay into that muddy ground, and it becomes like something from a brick making demonstration– straw and hay and mud all mixed together in a big soup. There are no hay feeders, so any hay would have been fed on the ground, and there WOULD be evidence. Areas of extra churned up mud, if nothing else. There is nothing, just nice even mud all around. Those horses hadn’t received a single bite of hay since being moved to that death trap about four months ago.
Aside from that clue in the video, I’ll point out that the fence is SUPPOSED to be hot, yet comments indicate the horses have been leaning on it, going through it, getting loose…. putting up a hotwire fence is NOT rocket science. Putting caps on the metal posts is likewise NOT rocket science. Not leaving your brand new bags of horse grain sitting out where any loose horse can get to it is…. well, okay, maybe that IS rocket science. Or at least tougher than these new owners can wrap their minds around.
The Commissioner I talked to at the Huntington County commissioner’s office was a horse owner himself, and promised to look into the situation. Veterinarians were being called in to assess the horses. I have not heard an update, and I would have thought something would have been said by now. At the very least it would be nice to know that the owners are getting educated about the mess in which they put themselves and their new horses.
I am the neighbor that contacted News Channel 15 and I can tell you these horses aren’t/weren’t cribbing. Since the story they have been moved to a different property by the owner, but I can tell you it wasn’t cribbing. I never once heard these horses “suck wind” after biting on the wood, they chewed and swallowed. Also what wasn’t shown on the news cast was the brush pile in the back of the pasture which has been eaten down to half it’s size of when they first cut down two trees. Half the pile was black walnut which I know to be poisonous to horses. The food that was on scene when the news team came to do the story showed up the day before, before that they hadn’t been fed all month. The small supply of grain that was on site was brought in that day, never once have they been fed it before. I called because I was tried of seeing these animals starve to death. I have seen horses look worse, but the fact that I saw nothing being done is why I contacted the news, so people were aware of what was going on. Last year the same ACO, a different case, waited until a local farm had 30 dead llamas to act on the case that to my knowledge, had been open for years. I wasn’t going to watch a horse die before I alerted people that may be able to help or at least shed light on the situation.
As for the comment that the ACO made on the grass is greener on the other side and horses will reach through the fence for grass, well of course these horses were because there is no grass in that pasture for the horses to eat. I just thought I would give my 2 cents, feel free to contact me if you want any information, I’d be happy to share.
Speaking strictly to your statement that they have been moved to another property– I really hope that property is overseen by someone who will take care of the horses. It chills me to think that perhaps the owner moved the horses so that she could starve them without anyone noticing. Hopefully people are involved enough to follow up on their situation.
And once again, Thank You for coming on FuglyBlog to update us on the horses and give us some insight into the situation. You have my deepest respect for making the harder decision of getting involved.
This is exactly what I was saying in my post below. Animal Control notified the owner of the horses BEFORE they came out and probably said something to them like “if you have water, food and shelter we don’t do anything to you.” I saw it over and over and over again with Dean Solomon in 2006. It was almost the exact same thing – skinny horses, all the fence boards and trees eaten by the horses, and food shows up the day before AC comes out to do on inspection.
Same shit happened here! You’d think the people who try to help the animals have an opposing army we’re actually funding with our tax dollars!
Heather,
After speaking to your neighbor and getting a feel for her personality why do you think she wouldn’t ask for help and why would she not want to feed her horses – of course from your perspective?
I realize that it must be mental illness but I just don’t get it. I would sooner put my animals down than watch them starve and suffer.
Patty, honestly, I don’t know. When she first moved in she’s very nice, single mom with the one daughter (9 I think) that lives with her full time. She doesn’t have any kind of mental illness or anything, but she gives her daughter what she wants to keep her happy. She loves horses so she got them. At first it was just 2 and they were doing fine, then they got another, then two more and I guess she just couldn’t afford to feed them. A lot of people won’t ask for help because of pride. I don’t know why she wouldn’t ask, we helped her out when she moved in, gave her shovels and rakes, water hose so she could water the horses etc, very nice family, they just weren’t feeding the horses. Too many in a too small pasture for just grazing, they ate the grass down very quickly and then she didn’t supply them with more food. I don’t know why people would starve their animals, don’t have them if you can’t take care of them, that’s just my opinion.
I cant believe the ACO went on TV and said the ignorant things she did. If I was a tax payer in that city/county I would be firing off a letter to whomever I needed to about the training of ACO’s and proper actions to be taken when reporting to a case like this! It is plain as day obvious that these horses have dropped severe amounts of weight but she is giggling about what they are doing to survive. Its disgusting, and I hope the higher ups decide to let her go based on this performance alone.
Me thinks that the AC knows the person with the horses??? What do you think?
I think this happens more than we would like to think. A few months ago I wanted to report an emaciated mare who belonged to a woman I used to work for. A friend who was able to get on the property to take pictures ended up doing the actual reporting.
My friend called the police, who directed her to the humane society, who turned her over to the local equine patrol officer. However, before they gave out the number, they said “Just be careful what you say, because the EPO is good friends with the owner of the horse”.
Uh, WHAT? Where do you even go from there? Eventually the owner got some food into the mare (she ran a boarding/lesson facility, so she couldn’t afford to have bad press) and it blew over, but I am still disappointed nothing – not even a slap on the wrist – was handed out.
Wow… that’s like saying “Just be careful, they aren’t doing their jobs over there”. o.O
Entirely possible…the horse world is way too small for that secret to be kept.
It never fails that an abusive, neglectful owner will throw out feed as soon as they smell trouble. Some even have feed on the property and don’t bother to give it to the animals. Usually they will feed for a week or two and go right back to their old ways.
These horses are starving, there is no doubt about it. People do not report crimes for the fun if it. They do it when there is no other choice. Kudos to the lady who did.
Contact needs to be made to the agency that this so called officer reports to. My guess its a humane society, not a law enforcement agency. She probably has no authority to do a thing and doesn’t have a clue to begin with.
People like her give humane officers a bad name.
While horses love to chew on trees and other wood, clearly these horse are eating the bark to survive. I don’t think I have seen horses strip the bark on logs and branches laying on the ground unless they are starving.
I would have been happy if the AC officer had at least said “I’ve spoken to the owner to assure that the horses will be provided adequate food and care through the winter.”
I understand that the law is very difficult in some neglect cases. And realistically, AC doesn’t want to seize (and therefore pay to care for) any more animals than necessary. Maybe all that owner needs is someone to educate them on horse-care during the winter (not really an excuse… you should know what you’re doing before you buy a horse, but better to help the owner than rehome the horses). If that’s the case, then the AC officer should have been more explicit about this in the video.
I have no doubt that without better instruction or incentives (like potential seizure of the horses and charges of neglect) the horses will get worse. The AC officer should be less condescending to the public and explain the situation better.
You know what? I’ve been in horses 20 years now (as in, owning them…been “into” them my whole life) and I have yet to personally know one real case of someone starving a horse because they were uneducated. Feeding them the wrong things or feeding them too much, yes, but never starving them. So I have a REALLY hard time believing all these asshats need education. Most of them have internet access, smartphone, or whatever other kind of gadget your little heart can dream up, so what the fuck, people? Too many of them can afford booze, cigarettes, drugs, fireworks, slot machines or any other damn vice, but can’t feed the horses. I’m sick of the excuses…they should be made to resemble that which they have starved as their punishment, pure and simple.
You are right, very few people are incapable of getting the necessary education to care for their horses. You don’t need much education or intelligence to figure out that skinny horses need FOOD haha.
I guess by lack of education I’m referring to a socio-economic segment of our society that doesn’t “understand” about the need to care for animals the way we do. By education I mean they need someone with authority to come to their house and tell them they need to take care of their animals (as well as explicitly explain “how” to care for them, or what “care for” them means to the rest of society) or give them up.
I agree, it’s a rare person who is literally too stupid to take care of an average horse. But it’s an attitude, a confusion, about caring for pets in some parts of our society that CAN be helped with education. Some people don’t realize the responsibility they’ve gotten themselves into by taking on a pet. And as it starts to weigh on them, they shut down. They’re too embarrassed to call the vet, or the vet won’t come out because they didn’t pay the last bill and they’re too stressed and ashamed to call someone else for help. They don’t realize that the animal IS suffering and that should come before any strain on the owner’s emotional and financial health. All it takes is someone coming by with a solution for them to get out of that rut.
I’m not justifying this mind-set at all. And I agree that most often it is just laziness with no cause that results in skinny horses. The owner is too lazy to go out and buy a bag of grain, too lazy to head out every morning and portion it out, too lazy to bother to call the vet and meet him/her, etc. For that, there is no excuse and education is pointless. Threats might work, though, and again the AC officer could have assured us that the owner has been instructed as necessary.
For these reasons I believe we should make acquisition of a pet MUCH more difficult. But that’s a whole other story…
Yeah…I’ve got to agree with most of the others here.
The AC lady is an asshat, who plainly doesn’t know enough. Those horses were clearly desperate for food, and the kind of incredible beaver-chewing seen in the video is evidence that something beyond cribbing was happening…
…however, my young, healthy filly pastured on 14 acres, with mineral block, salt block, grain AND supplements, has occasionally chewed on branches and fences. It’s just a horse thing. No wait, I think it’s just an animal thing.
I mean, I’m healthy and *I* chew on stuff all the time. Bendy straws, tooth picks, pens, sometimes those plastic price tag things from new clothes after I rip ‘em off with my teeth… I’m sure Freud would have something to say about my oral fixation, but I think it’s just natural to want to chew on stuff. C’mon, how many nailbiters are out there? Gum addicts? Hair chewers? Ice cube crunchers? Lip biters? Teeth grinders? Yeah, ya’ll know what I’m talking about. We’re all cribbers! Nom nom nom!
OMG.. I cannot stand gum chewers and ice crunchers!
And on a slightly different note… On a yahoo horse forum I’m on, someone posted that they had just received a visit from an ACO because a neighbor complained that the horse was “all alone” and being “deprived of the company of other horses”. Yep, she has just one horse in her backyard. The ACO came to check it out because she admitted to not knowing if a horse being alone represented abuse or not. Horse looked good, owner clued the ACO in, all is well. Another bleeding heart….
But see, that is OKAY by me. I have too many horses in my paddock right now, and it’s a mud hole. So call AC, and send them out. Err on the side of safety, and send them out to check on my horses. Let’s face it, from the road, if you aren’t a horse person, you might look at that muddy mess with those poor horses and think, “I’m not sure that’s right,” so call AC.
AC and I can sort it out when they get here. I feed my horses, they have lovely stalls to sleep in at night, free choice hay, mineral and salt feeders in their stalls, the grooming kit is right there for those extra muddy mudbaths they love to take. Let them come. And if they DO come? I’ll tell them to make sure they thank the caller for me in my name, and let that caller know that I appreciate that they are looking out for animals in the neighborhood.
Yes, some reports are misguided, but I’d rather see AC make 50 trips out that were false alarms, than have them show up at a farm for the first time to see dead animals, starving animals, abused/neglected animals that no one had the guts to report before.
That only works if the ACO has half a clue. I know somebody who ended up having to fight a citation for ‘starving’ her horses because they didn’t have free choice *grain*. The ACO didn’t know which end to pet and which end poops.
Or what about the carriage horse company whose horses were confiscated because the barn wasn’t heated at night? (Can we say ‘fire hazard’ anyone?)
What we NEED is for every AC department, even the urban ones, to have at least one horse specialist on staff…preferably somebody who rides regularly at the very least…more than one in rural areas where they get a higher volume of horse calls. These horse specialists could then take all the horse calls and would know how to educate owners, how to properly apply relevant laws *to horses* and how to spot abuse. Thoughts?
Please, let’s educate the ACOs first, rather than have them make 50 unnecessary visits! A horse-ignorant neighbor of our old barn called the local SPCA because there were horses outside (horrors!) without blankets on (as I recall, it was not particularly cold and it was definitely a clear calm day). The dog-and-cat officer who showed up had not a clue. Yes, he got educated, but why not educate him beforehand? In our case it was misapplied concern — in the Indiana case it was an all-too-valid concern being discounted. In both cases the lack of education is the issue.
Not that I mean education precludes responding to calls. It just means better responses.
Do you suppose someone would pay me to go around and do that? Because I would LOVE to offer that kind of education for ACO’s. It wouldn’t even have to be super in depth– just a short basic training of what is healthy for horses, what is not, and then the ACO’s will have to take that information and compare it to local requirements and laws.
Because one of the big problems for AC is that they often are dealing with laws that won’t allow them to act. It used to be that agriculture was well known enough that most people in power understood it, but that’s no longer the case.
Heather- you rock! Thank you, Thank you, and Thank you for speaking up for those horses when they couldn’t. Don’t listen to the bullshit armchair quarterbacks and keep on being awesome!
Animal Control people haved it bad enough to look after all the variety of animals that humanswant to neglect, and I’m sure it’s a thankless job. That being said, not every person knows all about every variety of animal. The AC officer should either taken someone with who knew horses better, or she and the rest of her coworkers need better training in areas they are unfamiliar with.
As for cribbing; that’s far different from chewing wood. As for chewing wood, I’ve seen my own horses eating the young shoots off trees (in the spring and summer though) when there was plenty of other things to eat; and also occasionally chew on”some trees” (not all) in the winter, or other times of the year.
Lastly, since the owner has been “called out” hopefully he/she will be more vigilant in keeping the horses fed. They’re not emaciated, but they are too thin, and winter is far from over!
Please…anybody with eyes in their head could have seen those horses were too thin, no education required. Any non-horsey husband, kid on the street, you name it. I’m sick of lack of education always being the problem…where is good old sense?
The AC is a fat asshat. Yeah, I said it.
I love how she took the time to streak on the eyeliner, but did not bother to look up the true definition of cribbing. As Snug-arkly said, stripping the bark off a tree is NOT cribbing. Horses are designed to constantly eat. When that is denied them, they will chew on anything they can get their teeth on. Especially if they’re slowly starving to death.
I have to disagree with two points here-
1. Horses CAN stay healthy on grass alone (along with a salt lick, of course). One of our horses is fat to the point where if we fed her grain, it would be very unhealthy. She needs a lot of exercise to keep her at a healthy weight and that is with her only eating grass and a handful of chaff to mix some vitamins in.
2. I also have to state that I think some horses like the taste of bark on some trees. My two mares liked to eat the bark from pepper corn trees when they were in a paddock with them, but didn’t touch any other bark and they were well fed.
All that being said, these horses don’t seem to be getting proper care. All 5 of them have lost weight and the animal control officer, rather than telling the owner to pick up her game or lose the horses, seems to be annoyed that she is there at all. Come on! Those horses are about a 2 and unless the AC officer wants to wind up with them being a 1, she needs to act now.
I’m very glad the neighbour stepped up and called AC. Often people are very afraid to do that to people they know and I can understand that to a degree, particularly if you have animals yourself, but the neighbour definitely did the right thing. KUDOS TO YOU!
Seems like maybe someone tipped her off about the visit, coincidentally the first hay they get in a month (shit hay) just happens to show up when AC is coming for a visit? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Totally agreed on the grass thing. We have eight horses on pasture pretty much year round. There’s an arena that they come into in order to sucker treats out of us and use the automatic waterer, which is also accessible from the pasture, they have two ponds, and roughly 65-70 acres of pasture. From mid-spring to late fall, they do not get hay, just mineral blocks, and they are (not to put too fine a point upon it) generally a little rotund.
That’s partly due to my husband and I moving away, so they’re not being ridden as much anymore, but they were always a little on the fat side even when we rode regularly.
To be fair.. my father in law is a retired agronomy professor who did experimental fields his whole career, and our ‘grass’ is a lot better than most people’s grass. The neighboring cows often did the army crawl trying to get into our pastures because their own were overgrazed (He supplemented with hay.. they weren’t hungry, just wanted our yummy grass). But it’s perfectly reasonable for horses to stay healthy on grass alone. It just can’t be crappy scrub grass that’s grazed to the dirt. We keep a small number of horses on a large number of acres, and everyone’s happy and has beautiful, shiny coats.
This AC officer’s attitude really pissed me off, honestly. I know you would tend to get jaded after a while in a job like that but I really think it’s inexcusable to act like that, especially in an interview format. Her attitude was dismissive, and what’s worse, she doesn’t say they’re healthy or in good weight. She knows they’re not. She says she’s ‘seen worse’. At what point is it bad enough to do something? When they’re dead? Is that ‘worse’ enough to suit you? Ugh. We have tons of trees in our pasture… not a single one is missing bark. Downed branches do not get chewed, they do not get barked. Our horses don’t eat the grass outside the fence.. it’s too much work when there’s tons available in the pasture. The way those horses are acting is a clear sign of hunger, not boredom or ‘grass is greener’ syndrome. She should be ashamed of herself, and she’s ignorant as well as being cavalier about evidence of starvation.
Just look at that grey horse in the video. Spine sticking way up, hips sticking way out. Some of the horses aren’t as bad as others, but that doesn’t mean they’re fine.
Thank you for speaking up, Heather. A lot of people say nothing and do nothing. Took some guts to say something the way you did.
That “animal control officer” needs to be fired or starved, or both. To laugh at what those poor horses did to that tree? What an insensitive bitch. I’ve never seen a horse crib on anything other than a horizontal fence rail or stall door, and as previously stated, they don’t tend to rip wood apart with cribbing, especially to the extent that tree has been mutilated.
As for the horses, I’m sure they would look much worse if they didn’t have their fluffy winter coats in, but that’s no excuse. They’re obviously starving. I’d love to see this idiot lose her job.
Kudos to this woman for reporting and following up on this incident.
I have experienced the same frustration with my own local animal control dept.
Following is an email that I will be sending to them, as soon as it is completed.
The mare I mention came to me with a body score of 2 and rotated coffin bones in both front feet.
The owner offered her up “free to anyone” after animal control came out and determined that all horses on the property were “fine”. They knew it would require alot of money and time and effort if she was to recover from what they had done, or neglected to do, to the horse. And although they have the money, they just don’t care. AMAZING!
Janet,
It has been several months since our last correspondence.
I thank you for your last email to me re: Baily.
I have found it difficult to respond due to conditioning from childhood that “if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.
Tho I can not say we have had long history, we have had a history of
the horses on Granite Dr.,the horses on Sandstone and on Penrod Ln. covering the period of approx. 2-3 yrs.
Over this period of time I have found reporting animal abuse/neglect to the Douglas Co. Animal Services to be frustrating and unsatisfactory at the least.
Given the history of the horse cases I have reported, and the out come, I would have thought by the third report I would have warranted some respect with your department regarding my knowledge of horses with respect to previous reports and veterinarian determinations.
I am not some uneducated do good-er. My knowledge comes from years of involvement with animals, horses happen to be my area of highest expertise and interest.
It is surprising that your last correspondence verified that all I had been reporting as the poor condition of Baily and probable cause was in fact the case per Dr Peck. It came as NO surprise to me however.
You admit that upon consulting with a vet that the owners of Bailey were in fact starving her. Something literally a child or a blind mad could have determined.
What I do find surprising is that yourself, your personnel, your department, with the visual evidence right in front of you could not, would not do anything which by my understanding of the law, you were employed to do.
The horse, Memphis as she is called now, that your department nonchalantly determined as “fine”, is currently undergoing a round of medication to try to reestablish proper blood flow to the feet that had been impeded by her prior lack of care by the Vandenburgs. We are STILL working to recover her from the abuse/neglect she suffered at the hands of the Vandenburg’s six (6) months later, and anticipating another six months to go.
What I would like to hear from your department is why, when there are laws in place to be enacted upon to address cases of abuse/neglect is nothing being done to do so.
What have you and your personnel done to educate yourselves or obtain education regarding the “other” animals you “service”.
I am guessing that your job primarily involves enforcement of regulations and laws. However some rudimentary knowledge of dogs, cats, horse and other livestock local to our area seems appropriate, i.e. if you can see it’s ribs and skeletal structure, it’s underweight/starving.
When exactly was the last time you checked on Baily, or the other horses on the Vandenburgs property for that matter? Do you even know what to look for in evaluating the condition of their area of confinement or their general body/health condition?
I am sorry if I have been rather scathing. I still have all the pictures of the horses I have reported to your department and the memory of the lack of response by your department. Each time I have been met with the same bureaucratic BS, the same basic refusal to preform the job your department is paid to do.
Keep up the good fight!
I live in Riverside county, CA. We have a lot of problems with horse abuse, but I must say great Animal Control people. You can call and not give your name. And they are right out there. I know. I’ve done it.
I live in Riverside county, CA. We have a lot of problems with horse abuse, but I must say great Animal Control people. You can call and not give your name. And they are right out there. I know. I’ve done it.
These are the types of situations where having a knowledgeable animal control officer can mean the difference from turning things around that aren’t that bad right now and avoiding it becoming “THAT BAD” in the near future. I wish, for the sake of these horses, they have one of those on staff and she was just out sick that day. The one they sent……..not really worth much in the seeing that the equine is too skinny underneath all that hair department
My horses have never messed with the bark of the trees in their turnout. But then again they have plenty to eat and are not looking at the tree as hhmmmm….lunch.
Kudos to the concerned neighbor who was trying to help right at the time you should step in, when things start going downhill. You don’t wait until they are already there, the horses starved, dead, malnourished and emaciated husks of their former selves. You get off your duff and make some noise early on. Maybe the owner truly had the barn blinders on and just wasn’t seeing the horses were getting thin.
Major pppffft’s (not as good as a kudo) to the Animal control officer that was sent to survey the horses and gives it a thumbs up.
No, ma’am, they aren’t fine. They could be, and without much effort as it appears those horses are not so far gone…yet. NOW is the time Animal Control needs to take a vested interest in making sure those horses are being fed daily, with random spot checks. With minimal effort from them, the horses could be weathering the winter with a nice layer of fat and fur. Put them in Pasture with grass/hay and two trees…as long as the grass/hay is offered I’d bet you dollars to doughnuts those trees won’t be debarked.
Frankly, this animal control person should be a little embarrassed that she appeared in front of a camera. What a piece of work! She is obviously undertrained, overwhelmed and not the sharpest tack in the drawer. She also doesn’t appear too motivated to make sure this situation doesn’t turn from worse to awful. Even the way she presents herself is really unimpressive. Wow! I am a little insulted that she’d think we are so stupid to believe that really skinny horses don’t look too bad. Yes, well fed horses will eat wood but the motivation is different – boredom vs hunger pains. Frankly, about all that you can do is document, take pictures, take video and then document some more. We have a horse hoarder in our area that had been reported several times and then finally the story made it to the local newpaper. The animal cruelty people then took notice and it was like it was a new day and a fresh report and by golly they were going to do something about it. The crazy horse hoarder lady received an abatement notice. The animal cruelty people patted themselves on the back for doing what they could do. The crazy horse hoarder sill has 23 horses and just barely feeds them enough to stay alive. Good luck to you folks in IN. Hopefully, some of these horses will get an upgrade in ownership.
I haven’t read all the comments, so perhaps this was said already.
Those horses are not being fed enough, plain and simple. They are thin and are eating wood because they are constantly hungry. It is obvious that the owner of the horses was notified in advance before Animal Control came out to see the horses. She bought hay, filled the water troughs, groomed the horses (notice the freshly cut tails), and replaced all the fence boards that the horses have eaten because they have nothing else to eat.
Kudos to the neighbor for speaking up. The AC officer is a total joke – making excuses when obvious neglect is going on. It is amazing what our tax dollars are being wasted on.
Yeah, I noticed the tail thing, too. Poor horses, now they can’t reach everywhere they’ll need to in fly season.
I also find it interesting that the property owner (or maybe she is only renting? but still!) doesn’t seem to care about the big eyesore of a dead tree. Surely that can’t be good. Not that she cares, but it may have been the horses’ only shelter from heat and sun. Sure wouldn’t be now.
Wonder why those other trees were cut down, could it be that the horses killed them, too?
http://www.visithuntington.org/contact
This is the link to the county tourism bureau and I just sent them a letter assuring them that the county would never see any of my tourist dollars as long as that AC agent was employed by the county. I sent the link to the news interview in this story and explained that everyone world wide can see this. After all if I can write in from Kuwait then it is a world wide story.
If it isn’t feasable to call about the agent then write to the county here – threaten to hurt their tourist dollars.
YEAAAHHH! All the way from Kuwait?
Who else is chiming in from over the pond? Blitz ‘em with mail!
I have let them know I am watching, I’m in the UK
The eyes of the WORLD are now upon them….this worked once before- we even had Princess Alia of Jordan phone the Sheriff!! That got their heads out of their arses, I can tell you!
I wasn’t sure if anyone mentioned “salt” when I wrote my last post, although I see one person did. This simply addresses wood or bark chewing. It is important to have a mineral block (the red ones, they have salt in them too), not just a salt block (the white ones), and if possible, a sulfur block (the yellow ones) so the horses get additional nutritional requirements. I had one old App mare who would just gnaw on a mineral block. She ate it like it was candy. And never had any digestive problems, etc, etc. Chewing bark is sometimes a way for horses to supplement their dietary intake (i.e. missing nutrients.)
An addendum, this is NOT to say these horses were chewing because they wanted salt, they wanted food! But often, well-fed pasture horses, will chew wood for reasons other than starvation.
Very good point. Also, I offer Trace Mineral Salt, but LOOSE, not in a block. I also offer a multivitamin/mineral called GroStrong in loose form. My horses will eat one or the other or both, but it varies depending on the horse and the time of year, which convinces me that the horses need both the salt, and a separate source for minerals beyond a salt block.
One more thing: BEWARE vitamin/mineral blocks. Do not get the ones for cattle– they are too high in selenium, and can kill your horse. Also do not get the ones that have molasses in them– the horses will eat it like candy, instead of ingesting just the amount of vitamin and mineral they need. If you prefer blocks, I recommend GroStrong or something similar, because their binding agent to hold the block together is not sweet.
I’m going to weigh in on this one. First a disclaimer, I did not have audio with my video. Couldn’t make that work. I do have issues with some things:
1. Horses crib. If they are a true cribber they are going to do it no matter what. Proof is standing on my 7 acre pasture with no stress, totally healthy, plenty of grass to eat, plenty of hay during the time that our pasture is dormant.
2. Horses push fences. Mine do it all the time, fat as pigs with plenty to eat inside the fence and still are reaching for that ever elusive wisp on the other side. I have fence posts that are leaned out, some are even loose like that and until the ground thaws a bit and I can concrete in some new ones, there they are. I have more of an exception to the fact that her pretty wooden fence has the boards on the WRONG side of the posts.
3. The horses in this video need fed. Absolutely. They are way too skinny and the food looks like crap. If this animal control officer is really going to follow up with the owner and keep her on her toes great. The lady looks like she is disinterested, but also maybe a bit irritated too. Who knows. Maybe she was having a bad day. With hair and makeup like that, I would too (oops, that was mean).
4. Horses eat wood. It isn’t true cribbing but alot of mis-informed people call it that. It is wood chewing. My horses have all done it at one time or another in my life and it wasn’t from being hungry or bored, they liked it. I like to chew on a toothpick, does that mean I am starving? Absolutely not, I like the taste.
Bottom line for me is, good for the neighbor for calling enough times to get someone’s attention. Education of the owner is obviously necessary and if necessary further action.
Oh and if that animal control officer cares so little about her job I am certain there are a thousand of us out there who would LOVE to have it!!
Here in Washington State, one of our Rescue organizations, Hope for Horses, has a course that officers/AC can take that addresses the issue of livestock versus dog/cat issues. Here’s their quote:
“Recognizing the need for better resources for local animal control and law enforcement officers, we developed the state’s first Equine Cruelty Investigations Training course, and today, nearly two-thirds of all the officers have completed this training.”
http://www.hopeforhorses.net
It sounds like other states could use this type of approach when it comes to educating those who are hired to do a job, to actually be able to do the job correctly.
WAY TO GO HEATHER!!! WOO HOO!
I will also say, the ACO is a lazy piece of shit with a smart ass attitude. She has been an ACO since 2004 according to her FB page so she knows the difference between a starving horse and a horse that has been fed. SHE JUST DIDN’T WANT TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
LORI VANOVER needs to lose her job and they need to hire someone that at the very least can be diplomatic in public, and make sure animals are fed.
I sure hope she has seen this blog. See how much of a smart ass she is then.
Given your description, how can you state that she “knows the difference between a starving horse and a horse that has been fed”? I wouldn’t be so sure she knows her ass from her elbow. (All I am sure of that she knows is when it’s time to eat.)
But I agree, she didn’t give a shit.
one of our ponies cant go in the orchard paddock or he will stand there eating the mulberry tree all day, even while the other ponies are munching on the mid-calf-length lush green grass and rye grass all over the paddock (the only sandy spot is their roll patch).
one of our fatter little ponies will stand IN a big grassy spot to reach through the fence for the sweet little shoots that are just out of reach enough that she has to stretch the wires to reach them, she is the reason we have to keep the electric on when shes paddocked.
that being said those horses are skinny
What is the current e-mail address where we can send things that we think would make a good post topic?
You can send them to fuglyblog@hotmail.com
Why do people seem to think that “wind sucking” is cribbing?!?!?! ITS NOT!!!!!!! Wind sucking is the act of mares taking air into the uterus!! This is fixed with a caslicks procedure where they actually sew the vulva closed.
Windsucking through the mouth is a different kind of windsucking. Horses that windsuck through their mouth grab a board and gulp air to get some sort of rush . Windsucking mares that need caslicks arent doing it as a vice . No idea why horsepeople couldn’t think of a different term to differentiate between the two very different situations
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Windsucking+horses&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2114l6816l0l7071l18l17l0l0l0l0l387l2680l8.5.1.3l17l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1278&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=fakiT-CZGo7rtgej0oWDAg
A Google search for windsucking horses produced the above results for images. That ‘might’ be why people use the two terms interchangeably.
Sent an email to the Huntigton Co Indiana sherrif:
Mr. Stoffel,
I recently watched a story on WANE regarding neglected horses. Here is the link to the news story, if you’re interested:
http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/neighbor-concerned-over-horses-care-dbl
I am very conserned with Lori Vanover’s (animal officer) attitude and qualifications for the job. Her statements attest to her general lack of knowledge about horse health, behavior, and Body Condition Scoring. Her attitude toward the animals is callous.
This story has been featured on one of the top horse blogs on the web, Fugly Horse of the Day. Thus it has gained exposure nation wide. Lori Vanover has damaged the public image of your office. It is a police officer’s job to protect the public, right? So is an animal officer’s job to protect the animals. Lori Vanover clearly demonstrated that she was not interested in protecting the animals.
My most sincere advice in this situation would be to further investigate the allegations of animal neglect, having a qualified veterinarian with horse experience to access the horses’ condition and health. Also, I would recommend that Lori Vanover be evaluated for suitability as an animal officer. She may need further education in animal welfare.
Respectfully,…
Oh yes this is so typical . These horses are in trouble and good for the lady turning them in. We have the same problem a neighbor with 265 Alpacas on 2 acres no manure pick up, not enough food, have eaten everything in sight and on our side of the fence that they could reach too, through field fence and 3 strands of elect. The owners say they are as easy to take care of as a dog . What is it with people do they have shit for brains ? What happened to common sense lets lock them in a mud and shit hole with no food and see how they fare.
Wow. At work we have 12 mares on a paddock with a couple trees. They newver touch the trees because they have food! Maybe that bitch of a animal control officer should take a closer look.