Conformation Critique: Lemony
Jan 04 2012
We thought it was about time to turn the floor back to one of our readers. She is literally looking at one her own – this is her critique of her own mare. Everyone say hi to Emily!
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I am a long time fugly reader, and like many I have always very much enjoyed the conformation critiques. I thought it might be fun, instead of pointing out all the flaws in a picture of horse I found on the internet, to turn the finger around and look at my own 4 legged beast instead, because though she is a beloved family pet, she’s also a fantastic example of several conformation flaws. Let’s begin, shall we?
A bit of background, her name is Lemony, she is a Gypsy cob. Yes I said Gypsy, we did not buy her because she is a gypsy though, in fact we had never heard of the breed when we bought her, but she is certainly hairy and spotted, we think it adds to her cuteness. And lady-like-ness, especially the beard she grows year round. I have had Lemony since I was 16 and a sophomore in high school. We purchased her because she was a kind, safe, fun ride for a short kid who was tired of water skiing around on horses that were far too big (growing after 6th grade is overrated, folks). This is her:
Oh my goodness, where to begin. One or two things probably struck you first. One could be her gigantic block shaped head, or the fact that she’s so downhill a small child could sled from her ass to her withers. Assuming you can find her withers, because she is one mutton withered hairball. Her withers (or the part of her back where they should exist) stick at 13.2 ¾. We were shocked too. We’ve never sticked her ass but we should take bets on it because I imagine it’s around 14.1. Her throat latch is pretty much as wide as her whole neck and it’s hard to tell from this picture but she toes in pretty hard also (which has actually been helped with good farrier work). She is also on Thyro-L, so this is her at her most svelte. The people we purchased her from had imported her from England to use as a dressage pony (sidenote: if you want a nice, trained to ride gypsy horse or pony, it would be cheaper to fly yourself overseas, buy one, import it by boat, and fly your ass back then it would be to buy one that’s not even broke to ride yet in the states). If you saw this pony trot you would laugh heartily at that, as she is liable to give herself a black eye with all the knee action going on up front.
Despite all this she is one of the hardiest ponies I have ever met. In her younger years (she is 18 now and in the above picture) we did 3’ + jumpers, all the way up to 3’6” and she has never been lame a day in the 9 years I’ve owned her (knock on wood). We had no idea she could jump higher that 2’ when we bought her (which was fine at the time) but later discovered she could do this:
Much to everyone’s surprise. Even now we still compete at the 2’6”-2’9” level. She is an excellent example of buying more for personality and heart than anything else though, because when we bought her we figured she was just a safe 2’ pony. Everything else is just icing on the cake of what was a cheap pony at the time. Also her ass makes an excellent shelf.
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Awwww… she’s adorable! And very hairy. Very. But apparently she doesn’t care about our opinion. According to Emily, “She’s 18 so she doesn’t care what all you whippersnappers thinks as long as you come bearing cookies.”
Here you go Lemony:
We’ll save the chocolate chip ones for ourselves!
92 comments to “Conformation Critique: Lemony”
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I don’t care what she looks like standing still, she’s mighty cute going over a fence.
Cool, I was first. Ok, it looks like no one wants to be critical of Lemony. That’s one of the things that breaks my heart about the Fugly postings, sometimes you can see that the horse/pony is really sweet and will give you their whole heart if you ask. They are still champions in my mind, as is Lemony. After seeing the picture of her jumping, I would never call her anything but adorable. I just love the way her little legs are folded and her nose is reaching over the fence. Good job, I hope she has a place in your family forever.
Oh she’s a forever pet. The family joke is the person who would be most upset about losing her would be my dad. Our barn in NJ was 5 minutes form his office. He used to buy a sandwich and eat it while grazing her during his lunch break.
I wonder if she’s related to a horse I knew once…same downhill, same mutton withers, same block head and complete absence of throat latch. Similar markings, although he was black, not ‘lemon’. His ‘official’ name was Sabu (who knows, he came with it) but he was more commonly known as ‘Moo Cow’. That should say how ugly he was right there.
Also never lame a day (his feet never saw a shoe when I knew him), did his best to jump (not as good as her), BEST HORSE FOR A TRAIL/HANDY HUNTER CLASS EVER. Bombproof. You could ride that dang beast anywhere. Trust him with anyone. He would walk over a tarp without even looking at it, go past road construction without worrying, he would go over bridges, through water, down paths barely wider than he was, never missed a step, never tripped, never fell.
They’re so similar I’m getting flashbacks.
I like Lemony.
It sounds like her owner knows her conformational flaws just fine, and that they’re balanced out by having a sound pony with a good heart.
I have a fondness for horses with feather.. my own has some too thanks to the Clyde half, even though they’re a pain to take care of and impossible to keep clean without teaching your horse to wear wellington boots. Mine also has a handful of imperfections, and I love him anyway. My husband’s horse is toed out in the front and a little in the back, but still has the most lovely, smooth gaits and is incredibly patient and quiet natured, so we don’t really mind the fact that he’s a little silly looking from the ground.
But if we were to ever think to sell him, we also wouldn’t tack a giant price tag on him because his sweetness doesn’t change his loony conformation and somewhat moody/flaky hooves.
Being realistic about your horse’s qualities vs. flaws is a good thing.
Part of the reason I wanted to look at Lemony when we found her online ad so many years ago was because she was a draft with feathers. I love drafts, I’m just too short to actually ride a real large one, in fact the big ones frighten me for the most part. But I love me some chunky furry pony.
The big ones are super sweet, but you sure don’t want the “Oops, was that your foot I’m standing on” moment with them. Frost has stepped on me before and boy did I turn the air blue with my language. It -hurt-. *laughs* I was banging on his shoulder and he looked at me all puzzled, like “oh, oops” and moved off immediately, but my toes were pretty purple for a while.
He’s a pretty big guy though. He looks taller than he is, but he’s really substantial. I was hoping he’d take more after his sire, but he’s more heavy like his dam. I feel badly sometimes that I don’t jump, because I really think he’d make a sound, sturdy jumper or foxhunter for someone who did.
I like your Lemony though. You know she has flaws, but she still is a good horse for you and gives you her all. I think it’s really good to understand good conformation and what it can bring to you depending on your discipline and what you want the horse to do. But it’s not the only part of the equation, either.
As a fellow draftie owner, I think Lemon is super cute! Big horses (especially as we enter middle aged and don’t feel the need to fly over those fences anymore) are a real treat to own, they even eat a little less than the smaller ones, they just breathe and gain weight, its kind of nice. I think all too often we see folks get caught up in the conformation game. I had my 2 time USDF horse of the year (for his breed) called a stump necked draft, this made me laugh because, ummm, his conformation is correct for what his job is. We forget sometimes that as long as it works for what they do, who cares? No, my horse could never be in a halter class, nor could your cute lemony but, who wants to show halter anyway? Yuck! On the other hand I look at those champion halter horses and I find myself hard put to find something attractive about them. I really hope someday our industry will get back to the place where you have a horse like Lemon who is cute as a button, she seems super willing and she’s a good little jumper. I’ve seen some butt-ugly horses do some damn fine things and the people who join them in these endeavors think theyre the most beautiful animal in the world, as well they should. I’m not encouraging crappy breeding, just a bit of a softer eye on conformation, again, as long as they can do what you need them to do with the minimal amount of issues then they are put together perfectly, right? If a halter horse is what you want, well, don’t get a draft.
This post made me laugh because I do the same thing to my arab.
I bought him when I knew absolutely nothing. Fast forward many years and now I go out in the pasture and laugh at all of the confo faults my poor fugly has. But, he is the best horse ever… he will do anything I want and will pack around an 8 year old or a 74 year old all without any fuss and on a loose “rein” (I use that term loosely because I mostly ride him in a halter).
However, you get that horse in an endurance race and he is tough to beat. He will self-rate and come in at the finish line barely breathing even though we just cantered the last mile or so. The only problem is his upright shoulder beats you to death if you don’t post every stride… but I can live with that. I love him!!
Thanks for the chuckle!!
Life’s A Beach
http://www.36andsingle.blogspot.com/
She’s lovely and what a kind eye! She’s actually not too badly put together when you compare some of the ugly creatures that drafties can spawn. Yes, cobs (Nothing gypsy about them unless you actually buy from the gypsies at a fair) are cheap as chips out here but damn reliable horses. They’re kind, usually willing and there’s absolutely no reason you can’t do low level competitions with them. I learnt to ride on a 6yr old, 16.2 Shire x mare and her owner could jump her at least 5ft. She could have easily taken advantage of me with her bulk but she was nothing less than forgiving.
Our clydesdale x is 15.2hh at the withers and 16hh at the bum – about as downhill as you get! BUT he is sweet and safe and absolutely worth his weight in gold. He’s 22 this year and the most sound of the lot with still plenty of riding left in him. I think as long as the legs are good, the back is strong and it’s built for purpose all the other flaws you mentioned are just minor.
The older I get, the more I value a brain over everything else. Safe, sane, sound, happy, pretty, and willing – then I will worry about if it’s back is a touch too long or his head a shade to big. Of course, I don’t reccomend fuglies for breeding stock, but I’ve had far too many frankinhorses that were worth their weight in gold to cast stones at any who fit my other requirements first. I have a couple that are show champions in my barn who don’t have a brain between them. I got halter champions, but for most things, give me a gentle, well broke fugly if my life depended on it.
Adorable. Nobody’s perfect. I’ve got a belgian draft who is a pretty large girl and I couldn’t believe it myself when she jumped in the air and did a capriole. It makes me want one of those helmet cams to catch those crazy moments. Anyway your girl jumping 3+ feet made me think of her.
This horse is worth her weight in gold! I would take a good minded horse with conformation flaws over a totally gorgeous horse with a bad attitude/mind. Dangerous and good looking is not as fun as a good, safe, not-so-perfect conformation horse! (Granted, if you can afford gorgeous horse with a sound of mind and body, great!) Lemony is the kind of horse you hope to find for a young or mature rider just starting out, though it looks like Lemony took her owner to a good level in the show ring! Cute as can be with those knees tucked over that jump! I have Heinz 57 (meaning not sure what he has in his breeding!) Canadian WB that has the blocky head, feathers, a long back, short neck, cow hocked, and a great mind. He can jump, too, and is fearless when you face him at a jump. So willing and patient, even with kids or a beginner on his back! He is a gentle giant at 17+ hands and just a joy to be around! Note that Lemony’s owner didn’t talk about how she wanted to breed her Gypsy mare because of her breed or color! That is where the horse sense shows! Kudos to her for loving her wonderful horse!
I know that it’s a popular sport to poke fun at Gypsy/colored cobs on the internet for being “spotted grade mutts,” but honestly I’v grown quite fond of them and I’ve been prompting my boss to purchase one. She’s a wealthy photographer who likes pretty things and likes owning a lot of animals, but horses actually scare the piss out of her even though she insists on owning them. When she was too scared to ride any of her three horses (all three were rehomed to families with small children riding them…so that’s how ‘scary’ they were) she wanted a calm, smaller horse, and the first thing I thought of were Gypsies. I had spoken to an online friend who has a small breeding program and is active in the US registry and shows, and she told me her daughters first 4H project was breaking their gypsy filly, and the filly was so docile that her teen could do it all by herself (with supervision, of course, but no real ‘help’.)
Of course, the first horse my boss purchased was a Dales Pony mare, for a ton of money because they are a rarer breed in the US, but it was the same concept: small, compact, super steady, lots of pretty hair. We have a aged Fjord gelding as the Dales ponies trail-riding companion, but even at 33 years old he’s not bombproof enough for me to say that my boss or her un-horse-savvy friends should ride him, so I’m prompting her to get another horse if she thinks she’d want to go on trailrides with friends instead of with me on the fjord, and again, I’m pushing for a Gypsy.
Weather or not people think they are a “Real” breed, after getting to know people who own the breed, they ARE breeding for standards that have more factors than “just lots of hair.” They want short backs, hard feet, soundness, and what I see coming out the best as a standard that’s sticking is TEMPERAMENT. There’s a lot of good reasons to breed a horse with an overall temperament of a Golden Retriever, and there are good reasons to pay a nice sum of money for a horse that a timid person can:
- Work around without feeling frightened
-Is not frightened to MAKE MISTAKES around (this is the big one; the other horses she had were very good, but they were not terribly forgiving over and over again, as most horses I know aren’t.)
- Is not frightened to take ‘risks’ on (example, crossing a stream or a bridge for the first time without worrying the horse is going to flip the F out, knowing that if anything the horse will just refuse)
In fact, my boss is of opposite mind of most ‘horse’ people (granted i don’t consider her a horse person) … she doesn’t understand, even with all the talent top show horses have, WHY they cost so much money, because only a select type of person can ride them (see: super skilled riders) She finds her drafty pony worth much more in her mind than any over athletic jumper, she has no use for it.
As for Lemony, she’s CUTE! I would take her home in a heartbeat
I’m weird about conformation. I’m a giant stickler about conformation in young horses, because their soundness has not been tested yet. I’m not one to take a risk of purchasing a youngster with questionable conformation (though no horse is perfect) but, if an older horse has already have years of work put into them, is still sound, has a history of soundness, conformation quirks don’t bother me at all. And OMG how cute is Lemony as a jumper!! I never would have guessed!
Ditto. Brains and placid, easy-going nature are numero uno. I’ll deal with conformation flaws if they’ve got a brain… That is the issue here with some folks correct? That some horses whose parent’s should have never been bred together turns out to be a real gem, right?
My bestest horse ever was a conformational train wreck Morgan/Quarter/Appaloosa/Mustang. He never took a lame step, did reining, dressage, quadrille, team penning, english pleasure and trail riding. Took out anyone who could sit upright and take care of them… and then laid down and died. I didn’t even have to have him PTS; what a good horse. I miss him still and it’s been 20 plus years since he passed.
Love you Augustus, miss you too…
Lemony looks adorable
I love when a horse has conformational flaws yet still manages to be an excellent mount. Bit like a horse I rode a few years ago. He looked like someone stuck a French trotter and a barb together with tape: chunk hindquarter and head on a small fine body. Combine that with a very thing straggly mane and tail, and what you had was a bona fide frankenhorse. Despite that, Lixxu (pronounced Lish-shoo) turned out to be a very smooth ride, with an incredibly fast gallop (the sort of gallop that feels like you’ve just moved into 5th gear), and a good brain (seems to be a common feature with Barbs)
I think that breeders should consider all these factors equally–conformation, athletic ability, temperament/mind, heart, pedigree (looking at the parents & grandparents for ability, conformation, etc.) breed type (if applicable). However, for the one who is using a horse, often temperament/mind & heart will outweigh all the rest. And if there is some athletic ability in the mix too, it is even better.
This mare, with the sweet expression and good mind and ability is proof of that.
How did she come by the name Lemony? I like it.
Hi! I am the owner of Lemony! We actually found an online ad for her her owners posted on equine.com back in the day. We lived in NJ at the time. We thought she was cute so we went and tried her. Simple as that! We tried probably ~8 ponies I think before we decided on her. My dad and would look them up online and pick ones in budget that were nearby and drive out to see them. She was maybe 1.5 hours from where we lived at the time. What we did was take video of me riding the horses I tried and if one was promising we’d show it to my trainer, and then if she liked it my trainer and I would go out together for the next visit. Horse shopping on the cheap that was!
I’m an idiot and read that as “how did you come by Lemony” not the name. herp derp. She came with it! In fact as best I can tell it might be the name she has had her whole life because the people we bought her from said she came with the name Lemony when they got her! She does respond to her name also. Like the time she ran out of her stall in our NJ barn and made a break for the grass and I yelled “Lemony, whoa!” and she slammed on the breaks before getting out of the barn aisle. My friend Beth however had this problem with her once (pattern? leave door open, pony goes straight for food) and Lemony wouldn’t stop for her, she ended up skiing down the aisle by her tail trying to get her to stop. lol.
I can tell you how she came by it – in England palomino and white horses are often, at least in the Midlands where I grew up, called ‘lemon skewbald’ or ‘lemon and white’. Somebody was being descriptive…and not very original
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haha I had no idea! It actually fits her incredibly well though as a name. Matches her personality.
Awe…..Lemony is a cutie pie!! HHHmmm….maybe a lemon pie! lol. She looks like a kind old soul.
Hey Snarks (cant remember the right names, lol, is it Snugly and Snarkly???lol) Can you do a conformation side by side comparison? Like a pic of a horse with bad legs and beside it , one with correct legs? For the most part I can see flaws but some are harder. Like “weak in the loins” I am not sure what this means, and a side by side would really help everybody learn different flaws. Maybe feature a comparison flaw pic in a small blip at the bottom of a post every once in a while???
OMG look how adorable she is. LOOK at how tight her knees are when she jumps.
Most of all, LOOK at how sweet her face is.
Like Ponykins, I’m getting older, fatter, and less inclined to show, so I really appreciate a kind heart and smooth trot.
It’s like the awesome “mountain horse” in The Man From Snowy RIver, that bested all the fancypants horses when Jim was chasing down the wild Thoroughbred.
With the talent she has, who needs perfect conformation? She pulls her knees close to her ears!
I also LOVED Denny in Snowy River. He was all kinds of rangy and handled the terrain like a goat! Tha was one of the few horse movies that portrayed reality in the horses. I still watch it every year or two.
My dad and I get together to watch that movie from time to time. LOVE it.
My favorite 4H horses are always the fuglies with hearts of gold, esp. the ones who’ve been around forever and just keep plugging cheerfully away.
I have a few of those 4H fuglies. One is a REG half arab mare and another a very fugly palomino pony gal. Kids love them and they love kids, year after year.
One of my first horses was a Registered half Arab, half draft like Lemony, named Ben. He jumped, trailed, did it allwith never a soundness issue. He taught me more than you can imagine. I always found it curious that he was registered back in 1966 as a half Arab. Some one knew he was special and he certainly was up until he died at 30 years old.
I love that movie. I’ve actually been to spurs hut, or what’s left of it. It’s mostly all fallen down, but the chimney is still there and you can see where spur’s gold mine was (although it’s all sealed up now). The view is so beautiful; you wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
YOU ARE SO LUCKY!!!
Yeah, it’s really nice up there, although the drive is a bit scary. I’m afraid of heights and was only on my learner permit and my mum got me to drive up the big scary winding roads lol. Then when we got there it was raining and slippery. Totally worth it though.
My mum actually used to live in the area, which is how we got to see it. She saw it before I was born (when it was still standing) and then when I said I watched the man from snowy river she told me she had been to spurs hut and took me and my youngest sister for a drive up there. Apparently my grandad knew one of the actors in the movie too, although he only played a small part.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
So, this is my amateur go at dissecting a conformation photo (so don’t skewer me if I have things slightly mismarked!). Feedback/constructive comments are always welcome.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk213/KatieMcc421/Conformation.png
One of the first things I was taught to look at was how well the body fits in a box and how evenly that box is divided into three parts: shoulder, body and butt. This will generally get you looking at the slope from butt to wither, which in Miss Lemony’s case we can see is quite downhill, and the general proportions of the horse, which are quite decent to my eye for Lemony. She’s slightly longer in the back, but has fairly equal proportions of butt and shoulder.
Looking at her engine, it doesn’t surprise me that she’s a scopey little jumper. She has a nice equilateral triangle from stifle to point of butt to point of hip, with her lumboscarcosal joint right over her point of hip.
You can see from the plumb lines through shoulder and point of butt that she stands a little back – I’m not sure if this is a function of the way she’s stood up for the picture or how she’s normally built, but you can see that the line hits at the front of her knee and the middle of the hoof, as opposed to hitting at the middle of the knee and the heel. You almost want to put a hand on her chest and ask her to put her weight back to straighten out the trapezoid into a square, which is harder for her because of her downhill build.
I’m terrible with shoulders, but to me she looks like she has decent slope (allowing her to get her knees up to her eyeballs as evidenced in the jumping pic, holy moley!).
I didn’t do anything with hoof and pastern angles as the feathers make it darn hard to see where anything is.
Regardless, she’s an absolute cutie and has obviously been a sound, sane riding partner so her conformational faults haven’t held her back.
I didn’t think she was a disaster, either, except her head/neck/withers are… um… COARSE.
But adorable. A better-fitting halter or bridle and full clip job would make her head look somewhat better, but she has such a nice expression and cute, cute ears. Her throatlatch isn’t all that thick, either.
I, too, was taught to look at overall balance FIRST, and Lemony isn’t bad. I think her longish back makes her butt appear to be smaller than it really is. Her shoulder isn’t the straightest I’ve seen, And I THINK its angle matches her pastern angle, which is desirable. I rotated the photo slightly so that the fence was level, and I think she’s not nearly so downhill as we’re led to believe – I think she probably FEELS more downhill because of her nonexistent withers.
I also thought she was leaning a little over her front legs, like she’s about to take a small step, but her legs are far from the worst I’ve seen, and good solid bone makes up for something when it comes to longevity. Her short pasterns make me think that she’s got a great steam-engine pony trot that will rattle your teeth out. ;-
It’s hard to believe she’s so tiny, she’s such a solid little thing!
Obviously the proof is in the pudding, and Lemony is a total dollbaby.
I wish I had a good picture for comparison, but Lemony bears some resemblance to my own hairy critter; right down to that stunning, make-a-hell’s-angel-jealous beard. He’s also butt high, broad as a picnic table with a head roughly the size of Iowa, and spotty. Unfortunately I don’t know what the heck his breeding is, but his previous owner bought him because ‘he’s half draft, so he’ll be nice and quiet’.
The stereotype unfortunately, is not always true. This is the horse who once peed in an outdoor arena, then was terrified to the point of teleporting and shaking by his own whiz puddle. If he wasn’t such a nervous nutball, he’d still be with his previous owner. Instead she had three surgeries to repair a badly broken leg after he had one of his brainless terror moments.
So ye know what? I’m in the ‘brains first’ category. I’ll deal with minor imperfections thanks very much so long as there’s a sound mind between those ears, and willingness to try. I think Lemony is cute as a button, and I sure as heck wouldn’t throw her outta my barn for being a bearded lady.
We leave the beard too, except for shows. We trim her face for shows. Except we leave her ears. And now we leave her legs. It’s a lot of work to clip those suckers. -Emily, owner of Lemony
My husband once thought I *hated* my Missouri Fox Trotter mare because I was describing the amount of FUGLY she is, and how ridiculous it was that anyone bred this mare (came to me bred, despite being vet checked OPEN, lordy. Luckily her MFT colt is better than her by far, but is getting hit by the gelding bus this month
)
I had to stop and laugh and explain, I LOVE my mare, she has a good head and is brave and trusts me, and is a lot of fun to ride. She’s just FUGLY when I take off the barn goggles!
I simply don’t give a shit about her flaws…I like the little mare!
Potions, you and me both! I could care less about another person’s horse’s flaws, that is unless they are BYBs and creating more horse steak sandwiches. I applaud Emily and think Lemony is a very lucky, adorable girl!
What a cute pony!!! Buying for personality is seriously underrated. My first dressage horse was not an ideal build (scrawny TB) but he was smart and super eager to please. He hated jumping and loved figuring out what you were asking in the dressage ring. That willingness made him an excellent partner. We went from total dressage newbies to Third Level together and he learned many upper level movements as well. I never had as much fun with a horse. I would take a horse like him over a braindead fancy mover any day of the week.
Yeah, there’s a certain segment (not all, by any means) of the Western Pleasure horse population that’re just ZOMBIES in the barn. Listless, uninterested, uninteresting. I don’t know if this is by breeding for “quiet,” or some of the rougher training some of them are subjected to.
It’s probably the same in the Big Lick world, or maybe high-end children’s ponies, I don’t know.
One of the things I like about the better backyard trailriding owners is how much they prize – and accommodate – their horses’ quirks.
There’s a guy in South Dakota, of all places, who gets TWHs that don’t make it in the big lick world and retrains them as trail horses. They are very popular and generally pretty bombproof… they tolerate all that ridiculous show stuff, after all…
Well, like I’ve said before, TWH and other gaited horses descend from a millennium of gaited horses’ being used as “daily drivers” by people who weren’t really horsemen. For centuries, “ambling” horses were bred to be smooth-gaited, narrow, and above all, tractable & forgiving. I mean, have you SEEN early sidesaddles? Women were literally plopped sideways on the horses in these boxlike contraptions, with of course a million yards of fabric to possibly get tangled in. No wonder the horses had to be smooth and docile. Mules, too. Gaited mules were very popular in the Middle Ages.
I grew up riding H/J, so I was prejudiced against gaited horses, because all I saw at the open shows were people who couldn’t ride for crap on horses that could barely turn a circle. Now I think that maybe a RMH would suit me fine someday, and have all the fantastic hair I could possibly want, and my great big husband would do well on some kind of giant half-draft gaited thing…..
Honestly? She’s adorable! You can’t trade looks for heart. My own horse is a conformational disaster with a heart of gold. He’s done endurance and jumping and nowadays totes beginners and kids around for lessons. My only complaint is that his weak hind end led to arthritis that cut his endurance career short. It’s not all about looks!
What a cute little jumper! She looks like a super star =)
I’m ok with the basics of conformation, but drawing lines and measuring angles and what not is not my cup of tea. I think that sometimes soundness comes down to the luck of the draw – you can buy a perfectly conformed 3 year old and that horse could STILL become lame from any number of things even with great care. You could buy a 20 year old with shitty conformation, throw them in a paddock full of junk and they could be sound in 5 years despite it all.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
I know that’s a fact! There are barns full of horses who were supposed to be “up and coming” stars that keep all the drug companies in business that can attest to that fact…
That’s my fear….looking too much at the conformation and passing up a Lemony. Besides looking at temperament, I guess you have to go with your gut.
WittyHorseoftheDay
That is the problem I have with horse snobs; someone would pass up this gem for a horse with better conformation but not nearly as talented or trustworthy. All of my horses have flaws, and different personalities and I love them all for who they are. It was my choice to own them and they shall receive the very best care I can afford.
Same here, my jumper is a Standardbred with a HUGE head (and a huge heart). He is otherwise a good looking boy, no major faults that I can see. But if I had been a real snob about breed and conformation I would have missed out on him. What is kind of funny though is that because of his color and head everyone teases that he is actually part moose… My response to that is have you ever seen how high a moose can jump? ;D
He sounds very lucky to have you!
I love her! I’ve got one like that, sorta. Except she wants to do 3′ courses, but I worry about her soundness if she goes over 2’9″ because she jumps 3′ like it’s 4′. And she came from a rescue and has scar tissue on a front leg from some battle she lost with barbed wire. She looks like a Morgan, or cob, or something. In the winter she looks like a hamster. Same back as Lemony but not downhill. Her lower lip flaps as she gallops when turned out, and she’s a total bitch to every gelding who tries to talk to her. Also, she is sensible and trained, but hot and I wouldn’t put my husband on her. I love her. Oh, and she has an upside down neck, which I think might be curable now that she doesn’t throw her head and try to run sideways when you ride her anymore. She likes to jump and despite all these issues, she’s a good pony and would jump anything you pointed her at even if it wasn’t good for her. So you gotta keep her from overdoing it, even when it ticks her off.
Unfortunately I just have a video of her doing xrails, but it shows her awkward, yet charming, body type.
http://youtu.be/sAoz3vwfAVs
I LOVE this post and I love Lemony! And boy do I feel weird saying that about a Gypsy horse… 0.o
This is the best example of a conformation critique, IMHO. Lemony has flaws, but she’s hardly useless because of them and usefulness is something that no one on earth can ever gauge just from a standing photo. So what if she grows an all-season beard and lacks the “breedy” head that St. George Morris loves so much? It’s not her good looks that get her forelegs tucked right up under her chin in that jumping pic! Thank you for sharing Lemony with us! You made my night!
Of all the ironic things, I rode Lemony in a George clinic in 2006! In a 2’6 section. We had a good time! He called me a good student and her a very nice, very decent pony. Her legs were clipped at the time but still. I got a lot of audience compliments about how they enjoyed watching me ride her also. I have pics of that on my facebook.
I can’t imagine him NOT loving Lemony: he would call her a safe jumper with a very cute head, appropriate for a child. He seems to have a weakness for cute horses that look like a lot of fun.
…
So long as they’re conservatively turned out.
She’s a fine example of how the rules don’t always work as advertised. Who, looking at her conformation, would think she had splendid form over fences? Yet she does. And function should count for more than prettiness, in my book at least.
Aw, Lemony is rather adorable, even though I’ve never been a huge fan of the cob types. And Emily, I stopped growing after the 6th grade too! I am a towering 5’2″ of pure intimidation and 125lbs of brawn! Well…maybe not brawn. I do make horses look taller when I stand next to them though.
http://www.itsbraintime.blogspot.com
I’m 5’2″ also! I’ve had my leg be taken up by an 11 hand pony (he was kind of a chunkernutter) and I have picture evidence of that. <3 ponies! This is why Lemony is my forever beast, she always makes me feel safe.
I’m only 5’2″ as well. I’m hoping to get an Icelandic some day. Short, fuzzy, and tough with extra gaits to boot.
That is why I love “classic” bred Quarter Horses (some call them old fashioned). But they are low to the ground, strong as an ox, and generally laid back. I am only 5’3″, so my little 14.2 gelding, who toes in a bit, and is kind of round like a 50 gallon drum, and a bit mutton whithered, is just about perfect as can be. His physical conformation isn’t perfect, but he is smart and kind and gentle, and that just can’t be beat.
Lemony sound much like my own horse. LOL. I adopted her when she was 14 months old from a local shelter. She is of QH breeding and has very poor conformation. She is wide as a shelf even when at a fit weight. Also mutton withered in the extreme. She is built heavy in front and has very upright pasterns. Despite this, she has been the best horse I’ve ever owned. I’ve now had her nearly 20 years and she has done everything I’ve ever asked her willingly and competently. I’ve done a little bit of pleasure showing, English and Western. She had fox hunted, and done some stadium jumping (she too is a very good jumper) and a number of Hunter Paces. I have done a whole lot of Competitive Trail Riding and Endurance with her up to 1 day 100 mile rides. She is also a wonderful driving horse. She is the calm, steady, dependable type that anyone can ride and several generations have now learned to ride on her. This list just goes on. When I decided I wanted a mule, many people kept saying I should just breed her to get my mule but knew this was a bad idea as other then a most wonderful disposition and good health, she had no other quality that would justify breeding her.
I think Lemony is alot like horses I grew up riding, to look at pictures they are the fugliest things on earth, however we did not breed, and safety was key to my parents when purchasing a horse, well that and color because as a kid, if it was the right color it was gorgeous to me.
Heres what I find funny tho, and nothing against the guest blogger. If this had been described as a random picture of a horse for sale, everyone would be all over how bad the horse looked and how its a “perfect example of a gypsy mutt” and have LOTS of bad things to say. BUT because the owner posted about her, and showed that she is useful and sound etc etc, its a horse many say they would own.
So this thought makes me think “how many horses would find homes if people would look past thier figure and try them out in the discipline they are purchasing for?” How many of you are guilty of passing judgement on an otherwise perfectly useful, perfectly sound, PERFECT trail horse or gaming horse or “teacher” for your kids because you are blinded by its less than perfectness?
When people get on here bitching about someone choosing to breed thier less than perfect mare to the less then perfect stud with an unknown background (all of them start that way) and an unknown future for the foal (how many of us can ACTUALLY guarantee the life of an animal that lives over 30 years) and these people catch hell for it. I myself plan to breed my paso fino mare who is low backed, it is her only conformational fault according to breed standards, but she is actually champion pleasure several times over, and has over 45 show points with her breed association. My criteria for a stud are #1 temperment, how easy was/is he to train and handle, #2 color- I want a pinto foal, so it must be homozygous and prefer double homozygous for the black gene, #3 size, I dont want a tall horse. My mare is 14hh on the nose, so I want a stud her size up to 15hh. Now as to wether that stud has a history of showing, I could care less, does he have foals on the ground, sure thats a plus so I can see color and temperment of offspring, however with a LCFG, I am willing to take that gamble.
This is long winded in saying that I am actually pleased to see so many compliments but wish people would investigate further prior to bashing a particular horse or breed due to what some view as POOR conformation unless it is severely over at the knee, and lame. And would love for people to stop telling other folks what to breed and not to breed because after all the beauty of living in America is that it is the owners CHOICE to breed thier mare or not, and who/what they breed her to.
forgot to add the video of my mare back when I first got her. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GKSR75x0eA
Totally agree with you actually. And when we bought her we didn’t know much at all about confirmation. The only obvious things we saw were holy toed in pony (it was much worse when we got her) and how downhill she is. But she fit the bill of being cheap, easy, and safe. And cute, that face! But you’re right if I imagine people would look at just that first picture with no explanation and go “well she looks sweet but holy spots and hair wtf is that?!” with good reason. she looks like she’d be a jarring truck to ride (she is a truck but she’s actually like riding a mobile couch).
But I appreciate everyone’s kind comments! She would love you all I am sure. She loves anyone. With cookies.
“How many of you are guilty of passing judgement on an otherwise perfectly useful, perfectly sound, PERFECT trail horse or gaming horse or “teacher” for your kids because you are blinded by its less than perfectness?”
Me, that’s who. It has been my experience that horses like Lemony are not advertised often. Usually, when the owner says, “I’m thinking of selling Lemony,” and buyers appear. People who know the horse and are willing to take a chance.
My not-so-perfect exceptional gelding was a gift. The owner wanted to make sure he got a good loving home and I made the top of the list.
I’m looking for a new horse and I want it to be absolutely perfect, good conformation, good mind, and placid personality. I will, however, take a less than “perfectly conformed” horse if he/she has a good mind and personality.
You’re totally right. Lemony has a line of potential buyers that’s quite long. We’ve had people ask if she was for sale after petting her and then watching her go in the show ring at 2′. We even had an offer once for $15,000 for her, they had the check in the car the day we shipped her from NJ to OH when we moved, just in case we changed our minds. I’ve had too many people to count ask if she’s for lease also. It does ring true that those solid, kind, sound safe ones that may not have the best looks or be the best movers (in Lemony’s case, be a terrible a mover) are easier to sell than a lot of those fancy show horses. It’s hard to beat low maintenance and family-friendly.
I tend to see the same rock-solid kid horses year after year in the ring around here. Every few years a new little kid will be on them. Sometimes it’s a lease, sometimes they’re sold, sometimes it’s totally unclear to anyone who the horse actually belongs to, but the kid will say “MINE!”
So much business done in the lower and middle tiers of the horseworld is nebulous, at best. Shady, sometimes.
This is a good point, but to me the difference between Lemony and a lot of the fuglies who are criticized, is that Lemony has proven herself and so many of the fuglies we love to pick apart have absolutely nothing done with them. Lemony, as we have seen her described here, is a horse that I could feel comfortable buying for some hypothetical child, because her proven temperment and ability outweighs her flaws.
A horse with the same build, but unstarted or green? I would pass. Too much risk. If a horse has no training and no history to evaluate on, then all you have to go on is conformation. We can all sit back and tell stories all day long about horses with conformational flaws and quirks who went on to become great horses, but fundamentally, on average, you have a better chance of having a long-term sound and athletic horse if you buy one with correct conformation. Horses are always risk, all you can do is try to weigh things wisely. Just because Lemony turned out to be a gem doesn’t mean she wasn’t a big risk. Emily got lucky (I mean no offense, I think she understands this!). I don’t think Lemony’s story means that every hairy fugly is secretly a super-cute jumper waiting to be uncovered.
You had me at the name Lemony.
On a side note: Isn’t it funny how in the post before everyone was ready to tear the breeders of the example horses a new one, especially the cute little gray? Now because this mare is cute and handy, we can all ignore her conformation and say “well, a good heart and a good mind is all you really need!”
That’s a very good point.
The BIG difference, for me, is that Lemony’s owners are making no pretense as to her Sooper Speshul Awsum like American Warmblood breeders are wont to do. The gray from the other post (who I didn’t think was a total disaster, and said as much) was presumably a high-dollar horse BASED ONLY on her trendy breeding, and people’s willingness to automatically assume (OK that’s redundant, sorry) that fashionable breeding = athletic performance.
I think that was the point of the last post – that a popular pedigree isn’t a guarantee of ANYthing, and shouldn’t make a horse necessarily more expensive, unless of course you’re entering the shark-infested waters of producing or buying babies, in which case you get yourself educated, take a deeep breath, and then throw the dice.
Also, that one AW stallion someone posted as a great exaple of collection & athleticism, is simply GORGEOUS. Someone put a lot of thought and quality into their breeding program, and obviously lots of moolah. And in his case, it totally worked.
Which is exactly what we should be doing when selecting a riding horse. I agree with the other poster who commented that when breeding we should observe the strictest standards but when selecting a riding horse, so much more comes into play.
She’s got more than that. She’s sound and she jumps beautifully.
I have a question……. We have an appy colt we saved from an auction when he was a yearling. He is halter bred and is very upright in his pasterns and has a very straight shoulder. My daughter fell in love with him and he has stayed. He is 5 now and my daughter has started him on western pleasure, just playing around and he doesnt do too bad except for his jog is more like a jackhammer ride, but bless her heart, she just endures it, lol. My question is will he be ok for more riding that would be more demanding? She loves to trailride and we do take him when it will be lighter riding, but we do not take him when it will be a long ride, or alot of hills. (think Ozarks Mountains) I had to put a horse down to navicular at only 12 and I am terrified this geldings conformation is going to cause him issues. How do I know it is ok to push him more? I read about horses that you all have jumped with flaws and they turned out fine, but I am so scared he will be hurt from tougher riding. Thoughts?
My horse is very upright in the pastern. I’ve had her 20 years and she has done riding, driving and jumping and endurance riding. She is still as sound, healthy and fit as when she was 5. Actually, fitter then when she was 5. My thought are to 1st, don’t start doing too much too soon. Be smart about working and conditioning a horse that has poor conformation and they will very likley surprise you. I waited unil my horse was 8 years old before endurance riding her or jumping her. 6 or 7 years old likely would have been fine but……. I was also very careful about conditioning her. It has paid off now in her later years with a still sound and active horse that is 20. There is never any guarentee though. Just because my very upright horse has done well doesn’t mean they all will. Just like not all horses with perfect conformation are guarenteed to stay sound and fit.
I say, worry less, enjoy your horse more. Just go nice and easy to start.
Thanks Mulerider1,
I am just so “gun-shy” now after having to let my buddy go so early. I think we will take him on more trail rides this year and just play it by ear. He is such a good trail horse, he absolutely loves it.
OMG, I remember Lemony! She was boarded at Watchung for awhile and I used to ride with Emily! I haven’t seen either one of them in years though. I’m glad to see they’re both doing well.
I should send you guys a photo of Mr. Magoo, one of the most gawdawfully put together Thoroughbreds I’ve ever met.
I failed to hit the “reply” button first try. But a fellow Watchung-er! Ha! Would I know? Are you still there? Give me a clue lol
I’ll give you two. Top Deck was my favorite horse. Aaaaaaand(hopefully I remember this right) we used to “race” Cisco and Covert around Audrey’s ring.
Oooh i think i knooow are your initials C.J. and did you just add me on fb today?! How the heck are ya! this is crazy! lol (sidenote i’ll feel really stupid if that’s not you and forgotten who you actually are)
Yeppers! Lol, it’s been awhile! I’ll send you a message on FB, so as not to clutter the fugly page too much XD
What an absolute sweetheart!
I agree with what’s been said about cobs, they can be lovely forgiving horses, although; ground manners ground manners ground manners! At the stables where I worked we took on a 14.2 piebald cob. He was a NIGHTMARE to start with.
Basically a couple of people had bought him as a foal thinking “Yay, we can teach our kids to ride him and drive a cart, he’ll be so cute!” and then cute little foal got lots of cuddles and learnt nothing about personal space. Surprise surprise when he grew from foal into cob he wasn’t quite so cute anymore, less so when he was pushing over their kids and stamping on feet, and they didn’t know what to do with him.
So he ended up with us, and in his first week broke someone’s foot barging out of his stable.
Happy ending though (because cobs are clever little things) my friend fell in love with him and dedicated her summer to putting time on the ground in with him. He learnt quickly and became a fantastic horse for our disabled riders, I have watched a scared child with autism throw a fit on his back, kicking and screaming, and this lovely little cob didn’t blink! My friend even took him to a local dressage competition which he won (beating the ever so handsome TB which was housed at our stable).
It is still a rite of passage to be dragged down to the field by him, at least once, for anyone who works there though
Lemony is soooooo cute… I’m glad that she’s had that much success and that she’s just that hard of a “trier”! I also like the fact that no one plans on a baby from her (though at times it must be hard not to go “but she’s so sweet, why not?”)
Could easily reference my horses for similar conformational issues, but the end all is that they are all safe, sound and sane. Past that, I don’t give a damn. (I just got really lucky that I found a SSS grulla!)
Snugly and Snarkly, I know another reader mentioned this but I really agree with it. I can’t always see a conformational flaw because I have no idea what the flaw should look like if it was corrected. I think posting a picture of a fugly alongside a horse that is decently conformed and comparing the 2 would be really helpful. Also, in Practical Horseman I know they do a critque of three horses that are all similar age and are going towards similar lines of work. You get the chance to judge those three horses, then turn the page to see how the judge placed it. I think having something similar here when a conformation post comes around would be lots of fun. I’d love to not only be able to judge, but to know WHY I was right or wrong.
Damn that pony can fly! And she may not have the best conformation, but she is damn cute
I love those odd-looking, badly conformed horses that end up just being awesome! One of the ponies I ride: block head, giraffe neck, tiny body, and all legs. But stick some jumps in front of him (or, even better, throw him on a cross country course) and he’s the happiest little pony in the world, and will just fly over those jumps with inches to spare. As long as you don’t try to make any adjustments, anyway. HE will damn well decide how many strides to take and how quickly to take them, your one and only job is to point him at the right jump. Best behaved pony in the world until you start trying to tell him how to handle a course XD
God bless the bighearted Lemonys of this world!
One of my clients also owns a perfect conformational disaster of a horse – a butt-high, long-backed, straight-shouldered, flat-footed, weak-loined, jugheaded, slab-sided paint…but he has an awesome temperament and will put up with all kinds of stuff. Doesn’t know the meaning of the word spook, don’t think he would even know how!
The horse I loved the very most was a conformational train wreck! However, she was good at her job and that included packing my 2 little girls around before they were even in grade school. A horse with a big heart and a whole lot of try is worth their weight in gold. On the flip side, I’ve owned more than a few very correct horses who were complete dinks.
I happen to think Miss Lemony is adorable!
I’m lovin’ all the kind comments and memories of other good performing fuglies, but what really impresses me is the warmth, humor, and wisdom of Emily (who I assume is still a young person) that shines through in everything she says about Lemony. I’m sure she never was and never will be one of those show ring brats or horse show divas that’s always demanding a better horse from Mom and Dad, jerking the reins mercilessly in the warm up area, and blaming the horse for rider mistakes. Bless you, Emily. I’d feel more confident about the future if I thought there were lots and lots of kids like you coming up.
That is probably one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me! Thank you! I am 25 now, so I believe I am still young lol. My parents would smack me upside the head while simultaneously laughing at me if I behaved like that. In fact at most horse shows the order of who gets recognized by other people goes like this: Lemony, my parents, then me. I get lots of compliments on how wonderful my parents are at shows, they’re a family affair for us. Vacations have been horse shows for many years. My parents have always just been happy to be there. And, actually, while I was in college we bought a move up horse (while keeping chubbo here, obviously) and did some bigger shows. It reached a point where I was too stressed out to keep up with school and the more demanding training schedule to show successfully on the horse and my mom pulled me aside and said “if you’re not having fun, why are we here?” I expressed guilt at them paying for a show horse I wasn’t going to show and she just repeated herself “this is supposed to be fun, if it’s not, take a step back”. So I stopped showing with that horse and eventually sold him and went back to goofing/smaller shows on Lemons. And now I cringe when I see parents forcing their desires on their kids at horse shows because I did that to myself for awhile and it made me miiiiserable, so I can only imagine what that is like to have a parent do it to you.
I’ve also seen said bratty children at shows. Nightmares.
Even at 25, you’re still a kid to me.
Love Lemony! So few horses are conformationaly perfect that I find myself looking at the “overall picture” as to whether I label one Fugly or not. This horse isnt perfect but she is pretty darn pleasant to look at, jumping or not.
I dont breed so as long as my horses can do the job I want well, i will let quite a lot slide. I have one presently with quite a low back that we had to get creative with a saddlepad over, its a heinous fault but he is a gelding and with a saddle on you wouldnt know it was there, he moves like perfection and has a hell of a work ethic and thinks the best…. and was a giveaway all because of his back. He isnt everyone’s cup of tea, but at least he isnt on a truck to Mexico, and he is learning a trade that will hopefully keep him from such a fate.
I wouldn’t ow]]worry about trail riding with the horse, as you’re probably not going to be jogging up and down hills! And trail riding is usually done mostly at a walk (or at least it is for me) especially when hill climbing. Just because he has a jolting jog does not mean he’ll ver go lame from it.
Lemony is the perfect horse because he has people who love him, and because of that he’s willing to do anything for them.
Conformation isn’t EVERYTHING. One example that comes to mind is the fact that we turned down the horse mine that bird at the yearling sale because he was uglier than sin and his legs were on backwards. Instead we bought his brother who was much better put together. Mine that bird went for just under 10k, we bought ours for 22k. Ours couldn’t outrun me in rubber boots, Mine that bird won the flipping Kentucky Derby.
On the other hand you have horses like Secretariat. That horse not only had a lot of heart and some serious freaking talent both on the track AND in the breeding shed, he also had perfect conformation. Yup, that’s right, PERFECT. There was not a single conformational flaw on that horse anywhere. Not ONE. Conformation experts have been tearing that horse apart for years and continue to come up empty handed. In my opinion he is not only the best race horse the world has ever seen, but the best horse period. If you never have, you need to go to you tube and watch the 1973 Belmont stakes. I have watched thousands upon thousands of horse races and that shit is just NOT possible, for ANY horse let alone one that has a come from behind running style. Wire to wire by 31 fucking lengths over 1 1/2 miles against the best horses in the world. No horse can do that. His record to this day is still untouched. In case you haven’t noticed, I have a major horse crush on him but I’m sure you can understand why…. lol
I also need to say that while mine that bird’s do happen, a horse can be a great horse for a number of different reasons and have poor conformation, but it doesn’t mean conformation is unimportant… You can have the worlds best horse, but if it’s a conformational train wreck you still shouldn’t breed it….
Hello Snugs and Emily – love this horse. I do not believe that she is as downhill as some may think. Downhill is not measured from the top of the croup to the top of the withers. Rather from a point approximately 3-4 inches underneath the croup (sacro-iliac joint) to the lowest palpable vertebre on the neck. When the line is drawn from these two spots, you can see that Lemony is not that downhill. Of course, if the photo was taken directly square from the side, it would be easier to tell. For more information on conformation, go to Deb Bennett’s website EquineStudiesInstitute.org. Everything you need to know about horses is there.
Just a pet peeve of mine: please Emily, adjust your halter correctly. The noseband should be two finger widths below the cheekbone (approximately 1 inch), not hanging just above her nostrils.
While I love Deb Bennett’s work, saying “everything you need to know about horses” is on her website is a bit of a stretch.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you’ll enjoy our follow-up post though!
omg I remember you and Lemony from Watchung! Haha. Very cool to see a horse I’ve known on here. It’s great that you still have her