If It Has A Uterus It Must Be A Broodmare!
Sep 27 2011
Let’s have some fun today, in a twisted sort of way.
I’ve been photo hunting again, this time for broodmare prospects. With times being as tough as they are, there are a lot of really nice broodmares available for very little dough.
I’m thinking the economy is finally teaching some people to back off their breeding programs.
No matter how convinced they are that their horses deserve to be bred, having a pasture full of babies nobody will ever look at might be getting the message across.
Of course I still found plenty of these. Please note, all of these mares, except for the nicely bred bay, are the current, gotta have it colors. This is where color breeding gets you.
Make sure your hat’s on tight or your helmet is buckled, because we’re going for a ride…
not on the majority of these mares though, most of them are only halter broke.
All righty then. The only redeemable feature this AQHA perlino mare has to offer is her color. Which many people don’t like.
Maybe she’s nice, sweet tempered, could be a great ride, but nobody will ever know because she’s not broke. I doubt she’d be much fun anyway, she won’t steer with her thick neck and low tie-in, her gait will be short and choppy because of her upright shoulder and short hip. Since it would be A REALLY BAD IDEA to breed this thing, I guess you could just buy her feed and pet her coarse head.
THIS MARE IS CRIBBING IN HER SALE PHOTO!!!! ‘Nuff said.
Greetings, your Butt-Highness.
Here’s bad Foundation breeding at its finest. This 8-year-old mare’s owner listed the names of a bunch of famous, yet long dead, horses on her papers, six and seven generations back, as justification for her crappy build. They didn’t forget to add the impressive primitive dun stripes and shadows either. She’s not broke to ride, probably because the saddle kept slipping over her head.
The low tie-in on the neck and the short hip, complete with a high tail set must be in style, at least with the fancy colors. This 1992 AQHA, PHBA model has had several foals, so there’s a bunch out there just like her. It seems she was so busy popping out one baby after the other nobody ever had time to break her to ride. Now she’s 19, poorly built and has no skills. It makes me want to beat somebody.
Wait a minute, this mare is pretty cute.
She’s young and nicely bred – 9 year old mare by Shiney Spark Two X Shining Spark (3 Million Dollar NRHA Sire).
She is double bred Two Eyed Jack with Zan Par Bar and Ichibon on her papers.
The owner states, ” She is absolutely wonderful to handle in every way. Kind, meet you at the gate kind of horse. She is very well balanced, correct mare with a beautiful head, nice clean neck, great withers, and a huge hip. She is broke and gentle.
So what’s the problem? This mare has NAVICULAR. So her owner bred her and put her up for sale. The last time I checked, navicular is an inheritable trait. But hey, why not breed a few more crippled horses with good bloodlines?
Here we go again, Foundation, Hancock bred mare. She might be OK if her back end was the same size as her front end. She looks like an experiment on the Island of Dr. Moreau. She’s at least green broke, but in my experience 8-year-old green broke Hancocks can be a bit of a handful. Her breeding could be why she’s still green. Of course she’s homozygous black and the ever trendy blue roan, who cares?
I’ll close with my favorite. this CL ad said it so well I’ll let it speak for itself.
“Princess is a 14 year old chestnut mare pony. She is a standard size pony. She is halter broke, leads, is broke to ride, and quite easy to catch in the pasture.
We had the saddle on her a few Saturdays ago, and she did really good! She does need a little work with reining. (Note Dad clutching the halter-Mugly)
She stands about 12 Hands High. She would make a nice pony for anyone who has the time for her.
She has had 3 babies in the past, 2 colts and 1 filly. She is A very good brood mare.
Please give her a good home! (Cuz we sure haven’t! – Mugly)
Only Serious Buyers Inquire!
172 comments to “If It Has A Uterus It Must Be A Broodmare!”
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My friend and I were just having this discussion the other day. She was saying how she wanted to breed her 5 year old Arab mare and I asked if she was breeding to replace one of her older horses. She said no. And then I asked her why she would waste the time, money and effort on breeding when she could go out and find the same bloodlines for WAY cheaper.
I think it got her thinking. There is NO market for horses… none. So why even go there?
Life’s A Beach
http://36andsingle.blogspot.com/
I can’t really tell anything about the dun mare at that angle except she has itty bitty crooked birdy legs.
That poor blue roan mare. She reminds me of that creepy THE DOG product line, where someone went crazy with the Photoshop. Talk about “spare parts.”
The bay mare isn’t even high-quality, just the best of a bad lot. And at least she’s broke, but navicular won’t help with that either.
You know, I just HATE that people are prejudiced against mares for riding. Some of the sweetest kids’ horses I’ve seen are mares. Then again I know more than one person who trains pleasure horses FOR A JOB, not be able to do much with a horse that wasn’t a deadhead AQHA or APHA gelding. They are actually SCARED of horses the average hunter/jumper kid rides all the time. Dressage trainers, too – I’ve seen a couple of them get very very tense at minor (to me) blowups.
There are people – some of them professional horsepeople – who can’t deal with a horse that has ANY mojo whatsoever.
I totally agree with you, I can not understand people’s prejudice to mares. I think someone started a stupid line about them being bitchy when in season and people just go along with it, like stallions being hard to handle. If you let your mare be bitchy, she will. 95% of our lesson horses are mares! We have purchased broodmares in the past and trained them up for lessons. They do get cranky after several weeks of summer camp but then so do I and it has nothing to do with hormones!!
I have one mare and one gelding. The gelding has had the benefit of five years of training, supervised by my excellent instructor, and a LOT of time under saddle before he went off and on lame the last two years. The mare is a broodie rescue who had never been saddled until she was rescued from slaughter at nine. She has less than 20 rides on her still.
Guess which one is stereotypically “mareish?” If I could put a real life censor bar on both of them so nobody could tell their genders, I bet my mellow, sweet, “do whatever you want” mare would be called “he,” and my big strong BITCHY gelding would be “she.”
I love my mares, they will do ANYTHING for you once they trust you and respect you.
I love mares too. If you show them exactly what you want them to do, they try so hard to please and find the answer. They’re very honest and if they have respect for their owners, they aren’t witchy at all. Maybe to the boys in the field, but not to their people. And they also don’t go ripping across the lawn after breaking the fence that you sort of forgot to plug back in, digging the deepest possible holes with their turns and sliding stops like geldings do. Not that it ever happened to me of course.
I love mares. I have never had one that is “marish”, whatever that means. But I don’t accept PMS as an excuse for a human to be a bitch, either.
Agree!
Two of my co-workers had an argument once – the guy went to the head boss to explain what was going on and he said “Oh, she’s probably got her period.”
WTF?!
Like that makes it ok for her to treat people like crap?
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Now, when I have PMS, I am very paranoid, short tempered, and achy. Ibuprofen helps a lot, as does using food and alcohol as a crutch.
So maybe if you have a mare who REALLY suffers through her heats, you should give her a little Bute or Banamine, and lots of treats.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cLHBwvMVow
Yeah, well, give it time. Or admit that not everyone has the same hormones as you. Lucky YOU is all I can say. I’ve trained men to scatter. Comes in handy. There is Power in them hormones, ya know.
I rode a TB Miss Butt-Highness, over fences, I swear. Mare tried to kill me. Not her fault, she just wasn’t built to jump. Do anything, for that matter. Maybe be a kangaroo.. My idiot boss thought it might be fun. My neck would hurt from trying to look ahead. Nothing like sitting on the top of a teeter-totter.
Your Miss BH has the worst front legs I’ve ever seen, for calf-kneed. dear DOG.
My preference is to ride mares. I love how quickly they learn and they don’t forget. In general, 80% or more of the polo ponies are mares because of their competitive spirit.
I was about to say that. In polo, everybody loves mares because they’re more competitive. I grew up in polo, and I’m a mare person all the way.
For what I do mares generally make the best show horses, especially in the open classes. A good mare will be very aggressive in the show ring and just power through the other horses without dropping an ear. They tend to have a “bring it on” attitude. In my experience mares tend to be a little bit more game.
Yeah-boy! Another mare person here. There have been very few mares that I have known that I have “clicked” with, but man when you get it right, its oh SO right!
Same here. And I don’t know about the clubs where you ride or work, but here most of the mares simply retire without becoming a broodmare.
My mare’s the first in our horse family (my sister is a gelding person through and through and doesn’t get on with my mare) and I find her so much better than the geldings I’ve done stuff with. She definately lets me know if she’s in pain or uncomfortable but doesn’t put it on and is completely genuine about everything. She is very strong willed and can be a madame but never had issues with PMS (although she does like the boys).
From what I’ve seen the people who have problems with mares tend to approach them with the attiture of ‘it’s a mare, it’s going to be moody’ and don’t ever give her a chance to show how sweet she can be. Once she likes and trusts you a mare will do almost anything for you.
If I had to pick from this group I would go for number 4 the Palomino Mare.
That roan looks like she is made from 2 different horses conformationaly speaking, and that number 3 mare…… Good googly goose shit batman!! Geesh what a mess.
Picture number 5 (navicular mare) shows off her wonderful up right pasterns and teeny tiny feet…..yeah no wonder she has navicular problems…DUH!!!!
The poor pony. I just feel sorry for her.
I was just thinking that it would be fun to comment on a conformation blog here and voila! I open my H&R each month to the conformation clinic and rate the horses then compare notes with the judge. I’m usually 90% or better but sometimes I’m in left field of what the judge determines. Education-fugly/mugly!
My thoughts on these mares: I’m going to give a pass to the dun Paint in that she could be just chewing and not cribbing. I don’t see the pull back and hollow in her throat area but that could very well be the timing of the picture. I think she’s a pretty mare, balanced and as nice as the bay as she has a more level topline, not so rump high. Her shoulder’s a smidge straight but her pasterns on long and sloping.
I sorta like the blue roan mare, despite her color. She’s super deep in the heartgirth, has good bone, long neck and nicely sloped shoulder. (move her front left forward back under her) Her underline is twice the length of her back, her withers are nearly in line with the middle of her belly. Her hocks appear low to the ground and she looks like she can get up and go. I fault her in her blah head and piggy eyes. Instinct tells me she’d be a bit of a challenge to get broke but could cowboy with the best of them if she got there.
This is broodmare judging…The blue roan has an extremely weak hind end. In comparison to the front it’s awful. This horse will pull from the front something fierce. Look at the paint’s throatlatch the heavy muscling is in progress. Give her two more years, it will show all the way up to her poll.
Broodmare judging?? It is?? Then good. I am dismissing the whole class. Sweet Jesus. The best way to decide which mares to place into your broodmare band is…..wait for it….
TO RIDE THEM AND EVALUATE THEIR PERFORMANCE. TO AS OBJECTIVELY AS POSSIBLE, EVALUATE THEIR CONFORMATION, SOUNDNESS (OF LEG, WIND AND TO SOME EXTENT REPRODUCTION*-THEIR OVERALL HEALTH) , TRAINABILITY (MIND). PART OF THEART OF BREEDING IS EVALUATING OFFSPRING QUALITY AND CONTINUOUS RIGOROUS CULLING. CULLING DOES NOT MEAN SALE FOR SLAUGHTER OR EVEN EUTHANASIA, IT MEANS FIND IT A NONBREEDING JOB.
I once asked a good friend and colleague who manages a storied performance/ranch QH breeding program what his selection criteria for broodmares was. His response was several typed pages. The reality is that almost no one breeding today bothers to do this at a reasonably stringent level. Few have the financial resources to do so, but the truth is that this is what it takes to do it right.
What I meant by soundness of reproduction is that if one has to make a huge effort to get one bred and there are similar fertility issues in successive generations, maybe it shouldn’t be bred in the first place. CHANGE THE PROGRAM AND CULL. This concept is obviously more easily applied to stallions where information on their breeding soundness is more easily accessible and quickly evaluated. Just can I say this-CAN WE PLEASE STOP TRYING TO FIX CRYPTS TO BREED THEM JUST B/C THEY WON A FUTURITY OR TWO???? PLEASE……
Exactly the same criteria as choosing a stallion.
The mare and the stallion should be equal in excellence- then you look at the tiny picky faults and, if they balance one another out, and they both have proven themselves in the filed in which you will be asking the foal to perform, you go for it.
And for me, the faults do have to be tiny, and nit-picky!
I grew up hearing, “Breed the best and ride the rest”. Culls were riding horses. Of course the breeding prospects were ridden to determine which were “the best”. Those were used for breeding. The rest continued as riding horses.
A few years back I spent a week at a dude ranch that bred 90% of the horses they used. Only mares that had proven themselves in the riding string were bred. Stallions weren’t used in the riding string, and they occasionally would bring in a new stallion to get specific traits, but all of the stallions they used had proven themselves to be mentally and physically sound. Guests were even encouraged to visit the broodies with their foals (open pasture) and the stallions in their paddocks (although not to go in with the stallions).
“Broodmare judging?? It is?? Then good. I am dismissing the whole class.”
I agree with that. Actually, my criteria for broodmares are pretty easy. Try to imagine she has boy parts, would she be stallion material?
Boy, not for me. I want my mares to be feminine. In their faces and build.
But not WEAK. I want the same strong everything.
That being said, there IS that elusive femininity thing that you CAN often see, even in the heartiest, most strappin’ & athletic mares. Something in the face.
I’ve seen some pretty girly geldings and stallions, though. And my big gelding, who has a loyal mare entourage, has the GIRLIEST whinny.
Ok, except for that. But their legs and conformation should be just as good. If a stallion shouldn’t have navicular, neither should a mare. Both stallion and mare should be rideable and suitable for a job. I know it’s unrealistic at the moment. We would have a shortage of horses in no time. But I think that’s why this blog was started, if we didn’t breed fuglies we wouldn’t have to discuss what to do with unwanted horses.
I don’t think it is unrealistic. I’ve only known stallions and broodmares that are ridden and shown (or competed in endurance). All have had purposes outside of making babies (of course, the reason for this is so they can sell the babies for more money). I realize I’m lucky to have this experience when I see some of the ads on this site, but I think we wouldn’t have a shortage of horses if only ride-able horses were allowed to breed. Of course, I don’t have any numbers to back up my opinion, but if 100,000+ horses a year are still going to slaughter, I think we would not need to worry about a shortage of horses in the meantime, and we’d get to look forward to higher quality future generations. Of course, no one is going to stop breeding the unproven and unhealthy unless some major changes are made, so it probably is a moot point.
I agree with you 100%. The mare should not look like a stallion, per se, but she needs to be the same quality. The most successful breeders start with the highest quality mare that they can buy and then find the right stallion for her. For me, it is more about momma than poppa.
In a small defense for the third picture, looking at the feet, the horse seems to be standing on a downhill slope. If she is built downhill to begin with, this just amplifies it. The bay is also built pretty downhill too. Doesn’t look to be standing so much on a slope. and why not throw on the extra babyweight on those navicular front feet? Awesome idea!
The foundation bred horse- excellent example of Frankenhorse. Only she’s a little early for Halloween.
Doncha know that all you need to be a breeder is a mare, any mare will do.
I love your comment “if her back end was the same size as her front end”–snort.
All those mares would have probably made nice light use pleasure horses for someone (well, maybe not the Hancock mare). But no happy trails for them.
Yike.. Is it just me or does the bay mare look hip high? She doesn’t appear to stand on a down hill slope.
I have a mare that isn’t broke to ride and is JUST A BROODMARE. I bought her as that since she shattered her seasmoid bone in a front leg as a yearling. HOWEVER her sire is Von Reminic and he has LTE OF $180,000+, is a proven producer, NRHA champion, and highest earning son of Reminic (plus he is cowy as hell). Her damn is a money earner of $30,000+ in NCHA, is a proven producer and a daughter of Docs Hickory. This mare is BRED to rein, has siblings on her sires and dams side that have been successfully shown. She has a disposition to die for and I did start her lightly as a 3 yr old but lets face it she physically cannot be a performance or serious riding horse due to injury. Even though I am not breeding her I have leased her out for the last year and this coming year. Last year she was bred to ARC Matt OLena and her 2011 filly is for sale currently. I don’t know who my friend is breeding her to this year but I know she is a careful breeder considering temperament (of horse himself and his babies), conformation, ability (what has he done & what are his babies doing). I am confident my mare will be bred to an outstanding stallion and sire.
I am not a breeder. I never will be a breeder. I’m too much of a “Oooh! Pretty pony!” type person and not enough of a cold, clinical person when it comes to horses (which I think you need to be to be a successful business person with horses.)
I admit this freely.
So, I know I’m wrong, but I’m going to say this anyways – I would have FAILED the “Is this a good-lookin’ horse” test on that palomino mare. Failed, failed, failed.
I am way too distracted by her gorgeous head/neck to even make it to the rest of her body. I believe you she’s not put together well… but that head… and that neck… Do they sell spray paint for horses? Wouldn’t she look beautiful as a nice, deep red?
Two good ways to more easily judge conformation:
1) make the photo black and white, and if you can make the horse a mere silhouette, you can pick up on some stuff you don’t see otherwise.
2) After looking at the horses head/neck, cover it up so you can’t see how pretty it is or how cute its expression.
Horses don’t really care, so long as they are fed & cared for. Don’t feel guilty. You can have the fugliest alpha horse who just KNOWS in his own heart that he is made of AWESOME, and the prettiest bottom-feeder who thinks he’s made of poo.
She might be a real sweetheart. We have a mare who looks a lot like her, she was a failed broodmare (wouldn’t feed her baby). She’s a very pretty horse, though heavy on the front end. It doesn’t really matter to us. She’s very sweet, very easy to have around, and she’ll carry anybody on the trail and take good care of them. The only time she acts “marish” is doing arena work. She hates it.
My Mom and I had the same conversation last week. I’ve never understood why people breed anything and everything that has never done anything but “look pretty” in the pasture. I love* it when at the feed store I hear, ” Well we couldn’t break her so now we’re gonna breed her.” I would never breed something I didn’t get along with. Rain permitting (central Texas= terrible drought) I hope to breed my 8 year old red dun Driftwood bred mare for myself. I’ve owned since as weanling, and while she doesn’t have a show record herself due to finances she is; the put anybody on, the 4 yr old nephew rides her in a halter (helmet of course), does any and every event, fearless, the same horse every time whether you ride daily or once every 6 months, most automatic, never been lame a day in her life, the smoothest horse I’ve ever ridden, and Joy Cameron and Nancy Cahill where very praising of her athletic abilities when we rode with them. She is a very correct mare with the faults of a flatter than I like neck and a slightly long bridge of the nose. I will breed her to the father of my Dad’s mare, the most level headed, compliments everywhere you go, most correct horse we have ever owned. The stud is still working daily on the ranch in his upper teens and the roping mount of boys under 12, the same build as his daughter. My Mom on the other hand has no interest in breeding (we own four breeding quality mares and a gelding), she would much rather buy whats she wants than take all the risk/trouble.
This is one area where I disagreed with Cathy – she thought nothing should be bred without registration papers and an extensive show record. I’m fine with situations like yours where good quality working horses are bred in small numbers to provide the owner’s next generation of good quality working horses. I wouldn’t advise anyone to breed horses without show records with the intention of making money – that’s not a good bet! – but good usable horses are what all breeds were founded on. I have a feeling that people like you are saving the good QH genetics. When the posty-legged HYPP-positive perpetually lame world champions finally go out of style, we’ll still be able to go back and find examples of what these horses are actually supposed to be like.
Yeah, there’s a very strong community of trail riders in my area, and they don’t breed for papers. Those horses live good lives, too. As long as you keep it small-scale and very specialized, I don’t see a problem with it so long as the horses are cared for.
Let’s not misquote me though – your post makes it sound like I’m in favor of breeding HYPP horses, which you know I am not. My “must have papers and a competition record” is one way to simply cut down the NUMBERS and make sure we breed stuff that has a high enough value not to wind up as a steak from the get-go, at age 2 or 3.
Many of the most expensive horses I ride do not have papers, but polo is a tiny niche market and that’s why you only see a handful – LITERALLY – of people breeding for polo. Most people just grab them off the track because, duh, those are free or cheap and you can find the same conformational characteristics you need from this vast pool of cheap and free horses that are ALREADY old enough to start training. There ARE people breeding high-level polo ponies but not many, and the ones who are doing it are ALL people who can put the training on them to make them into high-level polo ponies, not high-level polo prospects. Within that tiny niche market, ok, papers are not important. But no one is breeding 1000 polo prospects a year in this country…hell I’d be surprised if everyone put together is breeding 200.
We firmly believe in papers, everything we own is papered. I think it’s about the most irresponsible thing you can do when it comes to horses. It’s equivalent of not getting your kids a social security card. When born grade you are setting them up for a much harder and more uncertain future.
Well, and when you’re talking about the high-value polo prospects bred by a handful of high-level polo people, you don’t NEED the papers. Unless those horses are so crippled from the word go that they can’t be ridden, they’ll at least be a decent low-goal horse. More likely they will be spectacular.
And if you’re in that kind of market, you don’t NEED papers if you have DNA tests showing that your cute grey filly is a daughter of Flecha or that bozo-looking but fast as hell chestnut is a son of Peanut, because you already know who Flecha and Peanut are.
I’ve said before, the mark of a great breeding program is that even your culls are useful and good for something, just not top level performers. Your culls should be better than the average breeder’s average-to-good foals. That is how you know you are doing it right.
I personally care less for registration papers. $3500 for a registered horse while I could go to an auction and pay for the exact same horse w/o registration papers for $300. But people if they want to show in breed specific associations want those papers and are willing to pay for the top line bloodlines. Me, just give me a usable fugly and I’ll love it like someone would love their 40k horse. If their your personal horse and used in your buisness and you breed a small amount I will keep my mouth shut about lack of show record (which in some cases may show the stud/mare is built right especially if their competeing into their late teens….. hopefully w/o hock injections……) However if you go “UTERUS! MUST BREED!” I will smack you, because chances are your not looking at the whole picture……… If you want a foal/weanling/yearling, go to the auctions first and see if there is a ‘demand’, ’cause chances are that is where your ‘demand’ will be. Waiting to be picked up by the meat man. Instead buy one at the auction if you want one do bad. The economy is still in the toilet and you can get good horses dirt cheap……….
What I love are the ads that seem to think that the mare’s early retirement (From a mildly successful 4H gaming career) due to lameness has nothing to do with her severe club foot, and therefore she should be bred.
What about all of the mini studs out there, though? The vast majority of the ones I see on craigslist are under $200, and the intact males far outnumber the geldings. They’re all marketed as great kids ponies, though……Although, to be honest, if I ran a legitimate breeding operation of 5+ mares and did not own a stallion, I would probably buy one of these minis to use as a teaser stallion.
I love the fact that the last one is a “standard size pony”. They don’t even know what breed she is! Yet it hasn’t stopped them from breeding her.
While we’re on the subject of broodmares, there are some unhandled broodmares at the pasture in the school where I ride, yet they only breed like 3 or 4 foals a year. When the foals are old enough, they start doing ground work, and when they’re about 3 years, they start working under saddle. None of the mares or stallions are out for sale before they are started under saddle. And the ones that don’t sell, are used as lesson horses. So I don’t think it’s so bad to have unhandled broodmares in this case, because they’re aren’t going to get sold when they are too old for breeding either, they will be unhandled, retired pasture ornaments.
Here are the mares with this year’s babies:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318824_276418932376864_100000262788790_1071758_223001389_n.jpg
And here the boys who are currently for sale:
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18762_101357099897720_100000702923931_35876_1880572_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184386_198260990192659_100000262788790_687640_1722712_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310857_273110576041033_100000262788790_1060757_1367422309_n.jpg
Fascinating – what breed is this? I’ve never seen anything like it in my neck of the woods – or rather, city.
I’d put money on them being Lipizzaners. Which actually makes them VALUABLE versus a lot of the grade babies you see out there!
Nope. Close, but not quite. These are purebred Lusitanos.
Oh yay… I was thinking Lusos or Andalusians, but figured that given your name sounding very Portuguese, it’d be too predictable
. I have a very hard time telling Andalusians and Lusitanos apart, except that the good Lusitanos seem lighter bodied to me.
That said, I am currently riding an Andalusian, and he has a horrific pigeon toe on one side, and the other toes in a bit too … someone was telling me that it is starting to be a very very common fault in the Andalusians except for the highest, absolute best levels. Is that the case for Lusitanos too or not as much?
Heh, I have a hard time telling Andalusians and Lusitanos apart too. Conformational wise they’re very similar, but I do agree that Lusitanos seem to have lighter bodies. They also seem to move in a more refined way, if you know what I mean.
Pidgeon toes? Well, I don’t think so, at least I hope not, since I don’t spend a hole lot of time looking at horse’s hooves to be honest. I haven’t noticed anything weird in the hooves of any of the horses that board at my riding school, though. And we’re not exactly talking higher level horses here. They have basic training in dressage, lateral work and very small jumps. There’s one old guy that was bred for competition and is now used as a lesson horse since he retired and he’s the only one with training in the higher levels of dressage.
Lawd a mercy, Miz Mugly, what HAVE you found! Here I was enjoying a tasty mid-afternoon snack and then just about spat it out when I saw a couple of these ladies. Good Lord… I thought the #3 mare was a Mongolian Wild Ass that you threw in as a ringer, no joke. That one ranks right up there with the infamous Goat Appy as one of theeeee fugliest fuglys to ever appear on this blog!
“… the saddle kept slipping over her head.” LOLOLOL!
If someone held a gun on me and said I had to own one of these mares, it would have to be Pally. She at least has a beautiful head. The Paint isn’t that heinous, either and I would not be completely put off by the cribbing; I’ve known some horses that were otherwise fantastic who cribbed, so I think I could deal with it. I am not a Cremello fan, but I’d also take that one over the blue roan Frankenmare thing. Her color, coupled with her eye, totally squicks me out. Really, if I saw either one of those two in my pasture I would scream and run the other way!
The bay and the pony just make me sad. Bad owners abound in the horse world and those two sure found ‘em.
My eyes…. MY EYES!
Off topic but it’s a follow up to the Stacey Kempf of Roodhouse, IL story from March 30th. I’m pretty mad at myself I didn’t pay more attention to the date this story was posted. At the time I was reading thru (and still am) all of the archives of this blog. I read that one and somehow assumed it was a long and done with case. (unless I make the font tiny on my browser I can’t see the date tab on the blogs… argh)
http://fuglyblog.com/2011/03/30/next-resident-of-hell-stacey-kempf-of-roodhouse-il/
Well Roodhouse is a little over an hour from here. And this lady is from Jerseyville, where I currently work. And she works at Pere Marquette, Grafton, a park where I like to ride. I’m disgusted by her behavior and could not believe the “punishment” she got.
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/42a7f0e91f0140aabeac04d5ed8944c4/IL–Horses-Abused-Charges/
“A southwestern Illinois woman has been sentenced to two years of probation and a $1,500 fine after pleading guilty to nine counts alleging she unlawfully disposed of dead horses under her care.”
A $1500 fine?? You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. There were THIRTEEN dead horses on her property and more starving!! What the hell is wrong with people????? I found this out today at work and have been pissed off all day about it. Mostly at her and the justice system but also at myself for not looking more into it and getting after those asshats who were figuring out her sentencing.
If I ever see her in person I will make a scene. If I thought I could get away with it I’d just run her over with my truck.
Twenty-six more that were starving, to be precise, in conditions so deplorable they were described as “an equine concentration camp”. That fine is less than $500/horse. She is also serving 2 years probation during which she will not own horses. Then she will be free to collect and neglect as many more as she wants. There was certainly no justice for these horses, nor the ones she will likely own in the future.
http://www.connecttristates.com/news/story.aspx?id=667037#.ToLtkeyfVkg
that poor pally mare….while she isn’t perfect, she looks very kind. bet she would’ve made a nice little riding mare, too bad her fate was sealed with a broodmare destiny. wish I could steal her and sneak her into my pasture
I’m no expert on QH conformation but I would fail all of the above. Even with the best breeding in mind, it’s a crapshoot. My NSH mare is bred to the hilt with English Champions on both sides. She’s a very cute Hunter, but she’s not built for the high stepping trot. If I wanted an English horse I would have bought one. I am quite sure that if she was and English trotter she would have been out of my price range. I wanted a sweet tempered, honest horse that can show locally and pack around the trails and that is exactly what I have. I love her and she is perfect for me.
Whoever bred her was probably disappointed that they did not get the high-stepping English horse for which they were hoping. That is why it makes more sense to buy a horse than breed one.
Oh I am sure they were. Here breeders did some halter work with her as a yearling then threw her in the pasture for 6 years before sending to my trainer. Me thinks they were also disappointed she came out a plain chestnut despite her sire being a flashy tobiano ( I happen to love chestnuts). Their loss was my gain. In all the years I’ve ridden and owned horses, I’ve never had a connection like I have with Electra. She’s got a forever home with me.
Your horse is the perfect example of why people who are interested in breeding should see it as a more of a hobby than a money making endeavor. I can rattle off so many examples of full siblings where one was a National Champion English horse, and the other was sold cheap as a backyard Dressage horse. Luckily I worked for many years for a breeder who produced MANY National Champions, yet made damn good and sure that the culls got trained and were sold to good homes who would then keep the breeder informed with pics, etc on how the horses did at their new homes. You hedge your bets with the highest quality mare and stallion to get a quality baby, yet it really is a genetic roll of the dice as far as it being a superstar baby.
I recently went on a road trip through Central California that had TONS of horses visable from the road side. Most of them had Color. Most of them had sub par conformation. A few popped with a nice balance noticable even at 70 MPH, amazing how a little education improves the eye (thanks Fugs). I was blown away how many were in terrible pasture/dry lot paddocks and poorly kept. And the mares with foals were all Color of some sort.
There were SO MANY OF THEM. It was a brief snap shot of one region but I kept thinking if this is just the parts I can see from the road there must be many more just on the other side. This was in Country, but I also saw the acres of subdivisions that were built so people could commute many miles away to the City to work. How many empty, how many families forced to move? How many horses given up?
Me? I’m scared to get another horse. I’m supporting several family members and an aging dog with health problems. Thank God the ancient Siamese is still going strong.
But I still count my blessings, I bred my mare many years ago (well bred, always got compliments on her), and what was the best thing that happened to us? She slipped the embryo early. I would have never sold the baby and now would be hurting, financially and probably physically. I could have only boarded the baby and don’ t think that’s a good envirenment unless it’s extra special and suited for babies.
Babies need more than most people can provide as far as social adjustment and large spaces to grow up healthy. One of the reasons I got my mare was she was ranch raised, in a group of mares and babies.
No comment on the mares.
They all made my eyes bleed.
“Babies need more than most people can provide as far as social adjustment and large spaces to grow up healthy.”
This is something that too many people do not know.
RE: “dry lot paddocks ”
I realize this is off topic and is in no way meant to criticize your comment specifically. However, I’ve read several pejorative remarks about “dry lot paddocks” on this blog. So… what’s wrong with dry lot padocks?
I live in the middle of the Mojave-freakin’-Desert. Grass doesn’t grow except with tons of inputs — namely water. That get’s expensive fast. So, the far, vast majority of horses are not on pasture. If they’re not fancy-schmancy show horses who live in a box, they’re on dry lot. I know an issue can be sand ingestion if anothery type of footing is not laid, but that can be dealt with.
Really, I’m just curious as to why there is a negative reaction toward dry lot horse keeping.
I think it might be that in an ideal situation a horse it meant to graze and eat small amounts for the vast majority of the day (I think 16hrs a day in nature?), and that is how their digestive tract evolved. So I imagine that someone who is against dry-lotting a horse wants a horse to have turn out on grass so they can follow a more natural progression. I know that can be worked around by giving many small meals, or even free choice hay, in a dry lot or stall. Another reason might be the region someone is from and their experiences with dry-lotting. I live in Seattle, and when we dry-lot up here it is usually because a horse is such a fatty it needs to be off the grass for a while (green grass is not a problem in the PNW), but all the dry lots I’ve seen for that purpose are tiny. So when I picture a dry lot I think of a small paddock that isn’t a very exciting place for a horse to live. I imagine people who are against dry-lotting live in places where there are other options, so probably not the desert.
I can’t speak for the people writing the comments, but those are my best guesses. It’s probably a matter of preference too– I’m a believer in 24/7 turnout with a shelter, grass, and a bare minimum of an acre per horse, and I have to drive a lot further than I’d like to get that (while understanding that it’s a privilege to get to have that sort of situation for my horse), but I absolutely get that there are tons of ways to keep a horse happy and healthy.
Not to mention that there’s a lot of overweight horses that could really benefit from a dry lot.
(i get to use my new won Knowledge here lol)
the types of pasture that a lot of horses are on aren’t necessarily the healthiest for them either…the “improved” pastures are too energy dense and that causes issues with digestion…so for many horses (and ponies) not being on that rich pasture is better than being on it even with a grazing muzzle…i see nothing wrong with drylot when it is done properly
not saying that all pasture is bad for all horses all the time…just that there are horses that will have a plethora of problems just from eating that grass that they love so much, even as there are horses that thrive on it
yay shades of gray
Did everyone view the RFD-TV horse auction on Saturday? It was a dispersal sale in Colorado of over 100 head of AQHA and APHA horses. You could have bought all the bred mares, some with foals at side, that you wanted for $200 to $400. A few were well-broke but most weren’t . Their high=selling horse while I watched was an unpapered ranch gelding who brought over $4000.00. Even their studs were bringing around a $1000. One had sold for $30,000 originally. And all these horses were very fancy colors.
ok…..plain green ignorance here……*why* are the Hancocks so popular in the NorthWest? Does the cussedness translate into stamina? I’m much rather have a nice Billyman or Col. Freckles to work with all day…..especially the Billyman. Big, solid, smart and patient cutting/roping horses
The Hancock horses I am familiar with have good conformation. They also have good size and bone, so they stand up to roping and doctoring grown cattle. They do have the reputation of being a bit tougher to train, but once going well they don’t cheat you. They are good partners to have. You can really count on them.
Why anyone beyond a cowboy would want to bother with one is beyond me.
Hmmm… dunno much about QH lines so I went searching for Hancocks just out of curiosity. It seems the blue roans are definitely in this season. At least the ones I found googling weren’t such a creepy looking color as the one Mugly featured. But most of them look thick necked and but high, or its it downhill? I really can’t tell for sure.
http://www.virginiacowboy.com/
I actually like the blue roan color, but it seems to me that the colored ones are always the ones that are never bred for their conformation.
I like that stud for what he is, a working cow horse. He’s so typical of the QH’s of years ago and his color is stunning. Not a hint of red. I don’t understand why so many people knock this type of QH when they prove day in and day out that they can actually earn a living working the ranch with a few roping competitions thrown in. Those old lines (Hancocks, Joe Codys first to come to mind among thousands) are tough horses, not for the faint of heart pleasure riders for sure, but are solid, working lines that cowboys can’t ride into the ground. I showed a 26 yr old Joe Cody son in NRHA Ladies Reining and took 3rd. The judge recognized the horse’s name and asked about his age. When I told him he just shook his head and grinned as he’d judged him years before no doubt. He lived to be 40 and was still sound with just occasional stringhalt. He had the tar ridden out of him for nearly 30 years. That’s worth something in my eyes.
I happen to think that stud was pretty darn cute, was just commenting on his conformation. If he gets the job done, even better. Dunno if he’s confortable to ride or not, since I never rode I butt high horse. I sometimes envy QH people, must be nice to ride horses that don’t spook at chairs,or cairs passing by, or puddles of water… *sigh*
I brought home a 9 yo unbroken Hancock bred gelding about three months ago. He stands about 17.2, is a flashy red/white paint and has bone like a warmblood. He was free, had been to three professional trainers (some kind of cow/performance trainer, and western pleasure trainer and a working ranch situation) and been deemed un-breakable. I know nothing about “western”, I am an ammi jumper rider. I had him walk/trotting in about two weeks with steering and aids good enough to hack out. Now I know I should not “hate” against other types of riding, but I do believe many of the “cowboy trainers” are scared of a big horse, and this one is not the brightest bulb. Put that together and it’s a disaster. However, he is no worse than many of the warmbloods I know and quite solid out and about. Still figuring out jumping tho, but may make a brilliant dressage horse! I think it’s the style of riding that these horses do not fit into, not really that they don’t have try.
Fugly, that is just plain sad.
However, have been on both sides of this argument. I have a well bred part bred Arabian mare, who was a very successful endurance horse for me. Conformation wise, she could be better, but because of her bloodlines and performance I decided I wanted another one like her, but better. So I bred one, she is now six and going great !
However I have since got it from both sides – why breed when there are so many out there you could buy ? Answer – not what I wanted (too many like above) and whilst I knew my girl wasn’t perfect, she was worth it performance wise and good stallion choice has improved the average bits.
Or: “she was such a great mare – why aren’t you breeding her more ?” AAAARRRrrrgh ! ‘Cos I don’t have the room or time for more than I have and selling horses is a mugs game.
However, ‘cos she is 20 this year and I liked the first one soooo much, number two is due in about three weeks. Different stallion, but same careful choosing. Can’t wait.
I love these kinds of posts! Great job on horrid conformation examples, and on informative and hilarious snark!! You should go on vacation more often!
I think the cribbing buckskin paint mare would be really cute with some muscle….
OMG…I think I might know this mare, and if I’m right she is SUPER cute when she’s fit and muscled. Unfortunately she suffered a fairly serious injury and was only sound for very light riding. And she was not a cribber when I knew her, so unless she picked up the habit in past few years I’d go with chewing. Either way, not such a great sales picture LOL…
FUGLY…can you please point me to her actual sales ad??
Never mind…found an old picture, and side markings are different so not her. However she is a spitting image (possibly related?) so I still agree that she could be super cute with a little love and a little work!
I have to disagree with that Navicular Bay. If you look, she’s on level ground and butt high and her pasterns are too upright. Almost like halter horses are bred these days, to stand on their tip toes. That dun thing is not on level ground. You can tell because her front legs are further down than her back if you draw a line and line them up. Not justifying the duns bad conformation, just saying the Bay is not any better than the rest of them.
That cribbing mare. She’d be nice if she wasn’t cribbing and unfortunately, she has the tiniest feet I’ve ever seen on a horse that size. At first I thought she was just nibbling the fence until I looked further back and saw how sunk in her loins were from sucking.
Out of all of the ones to choose from, I’d take the Palomino. Just because she looks like she would make a nice horse to hop on bareback and cruise around. I bet if they had bothered training her, she would have been a nice horse to ride. I’ve seen horses with “Perfect” conformation go lame over nothing so I am not one to say that perfect is better. But a train wreck like some of these horses isn’t great either.
I love these kinds of posts! Thanks! I’d love to send a picture of my train wreck to get picked apart. LOL! He’s a poster child of what not to breed for. Luckily it wasn’t me who did the breeding. I don’t know anything about him except that he’s a QH. I got him from a meat buyer when he was 3 days old.
A bit OT, but I was bored and so I looked up conformation on Wikipedia and almost every picture of a horse showed all of its ribs! Hmm, I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that they’ve got conformation issues? *sarcasm* But really, why should these horses even exist? It’s crazy that horses with extremely poor conformation are even born! They are destined for mistreatment, unless some kind soul helps them out. If there’s still greatly conformed (and trained) horses that are winding up in the kill pen, then we certainly don’t need to keep making horses that will NEVER sell!
I hope this link works…. This is a mare I purchased when she was over 18 years old. She was kept by her original breeders as a broodmare, although, they also did a great job of training her and she is great under saddle. They got 7 babies out of this mare, 5 with show records. When she would no longer settle, they passed her along. When the new owners realized after 2 breeding seasons that she would not settle, they tried to pass her along. By then the horse market and stock market had pretty much crashed and no one wanted the old girl. I was told she was sound and drove 2 hours to see her. It was painfully obvious to me that she was not, nor would she ever be sound for riding, but I could not leave her where she was. The word “auction” came up in the conversation too many times with her prior owner. I needed a safe and sound minded buddy for my then yearling to hang out with so I gave him $400 (He wanted $1000). She has since “raised” 4 more weanlings and is a sweet old girl. For those of you familiar with the “look” of the Impressive bred horses, you probably recognize her breeding – at least she is N/N. But she is also over at the knee and has arthritis, she is long as a freight train and her back didn’t hold up so well over the years. She is nearly 21 now and still doing ok as a pasture ornament. But even as sweet and gentle as this old gal is, she never should have reproduced. I have no idea what her offspring look like, but they have halter points with AQHA and APHA, so it can’t be good…
Ok I don’t like mares. Every mare I’ve been around has had an attitude. Not necessarily in the obvious, nipping or kicking way (although I’ve definitely seen that), but more of a… unwillingness to really try when pushed? Kind of a, “I don’t want to, so I’m going to throw a fit about it instead of trying for you” attitude. Maybe I’ve just had bad luck with the few I’ve ridden. I have a mare, and I swear I will never own another one. She is evil toward other horses. Before I got that figured out, she once veered across the arena at a dead run to go after another mare she didn’t like. She just.. gets an attitude. She’ll work for you, but when she decides she’s done or she doesn’t want to try something, there is no making her. Obviously, I would never consider breeding her.
Can we do conformation critiques? I want opinions on this mare, because some days I look at her and flinch, and others I talk myself into thinking she’s decent looking. Here’s a link if it would work…probably not…
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2290483496067&set=a.1257496312033.39366.1068389677&type=1&theater
OT but I’ve been reading over at the mugwump chronicles… Mugly, do you know any trainers in Oklahoma??? Or anyone else have any suggestions?
Marilyn and Jamie Peters
Mares generally are less forgiving of bad treatment than geldings. They sour more easily. Your “evil” mares have probably had some ruff’n'tuff manhandling along the way.
Also sounds like she has a bit of an alpha complex. She might need extra-firm but well-reasoned correction. No flapping and yelling, because she is, like, SO OVER that.
Mares work WITH you, not FOR you, and you have to prove that you’re “worthy.” Sometimes that takes Tough Love to earn their grudging respect, sometimes utmost sensitivity. Like geldings, only x 12. Stallions too I am sure though I don’t have much direct experience.
And some of them are just bitches because that’s their personality.
Some horses are just naturally grumpy, no matter what gender.
“Mares generally are less forgiving of bad treatment than geldings. They sour more easily. Your “evil” mares have probably had some ruff’n’tuff manhandling along the way.
Also sounds like she has a bit of an alpha complex. She might need extra-firm but well-reasoned correction. No flapping and yelling, because she is, like, SO OVER that.”
Exactly – my mare is really good for me, will do as I ask with miniumum pressure and accepts me ‘squashing her’ when she gets out of line however my sister is a lot louder than me and can be a little rougher and my mare really doesn’t like her and grumps towards her a lot.
My inexpert opinion on your mare, take it for what it’s worth:
She’s got a few flaws, but overall she gives the impression of being a nice horse. I think she’s got a slightly long back and a weak loin attachment, which is a personal pet peeve of mine. There seems to be something odd about how her neck is put on, but that could be an illusion from her head being turned towards the camera. She’s got a less than ideal topline, although that can often be improved with conditioning.
Otherwise, I think she looks great. She looks nicely balanced, level, and has a good shoulder and legs. (Though I’m notoriously bad at seeing leg crookedness – get a second opinion!) If she was growing this summer, it’s possible that she’s still going to change proportions a bit. I could see her ending up *really* nice. She looks like the picture of health. I wouldn’t breed her unless she’s wicked talented at something, but she’s certainly no fugly. I’d be proud to have her in my barn.
She’s nice, and she’s clearly getting a lot of attention and the right groceries. She’s a bit long in the back (many mares are), and I would like to see a stronger coupling and slightly stronger hindquarters – but they’re minor niggles rather than conformation faults. As long as you make sure that she’s working back to front and staying supple in the back, neither should create any problems whatsoever.
And no, I wouldn’t run out and breed her, but she’s a darn nice horse.
I was searching Craigslist randomly and I found this horse. I’m not interested in buying, but I was wondering if I was right about this horse’s conformation. I think it’s pretty good. What about you guys?
And apparently the pic didn’t show up…help please? I’m new to how to post pictures
WOW! That poor dun mare is THE most downhill creature I have ever seen and WHY is that paint cribbing in her sale picture? Couldn’t they go and take a nicer photo? It’s not like it costs more – everyone has digital cameras these days. However, I’m glad they are being honest about it – it would have been nicer to just write it in the ad or tell potential buyers though, instead of posting that picture. I think the pally is the best of them, she’s kinda cute and looks functional to me although I just don’t understand why she wasn’t broken in? She’s 19 – she is probably going up for sale because she won’t take anymore and who honestly wants to buy a 19 year old, unbroken broody? If she was a baby sitter type, sure! But she isn’t even green broke. I wish people would just retire their horses. I had a mare for 1 year before she became lame and she never made me any money – she’s sitting in her paddock right now, happy and healthy, where she will stay.
I absolutely do not understand why people don’t ride mares (although I see a few of them are broke). It’s like they think they are all fire-breathing monsters, when in reality EVERY mare I have ever ridden was unaffected by being in season. It takes a lot of effort for me to tell when one of my mares are in season (the only way I can tell is that they pee more and they swish their tails more). I have heard ONE story about a mare that was a real nasty thing when she was in season – one.
If you want to breed it, there is a long checklist and you need to have every box ticked.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
A friend of mine bought a 16 year old broodmare this year for $100. No history on the horse other than that fact that she had had several foals. She was fat and LAME at the time due to not having any hoof care in years. But for $100 she saved her from going to the auction. The mare was super easy to train (turns out she had been started at 2 years old but wasn’t cut out for showing). She is now sound and is a very uncomplicated trail horse. She’s the calmest horse I’ve ever met. Older broodies should be conisdered over some of the hotter youngins’ that will need a lot more time before they are trail ready.
This is a good bunch of horses to compare, but I’d like to make the exam a little harder. I’d also like to take the comparisons strictly out of the realm of QH/paint/whatever (with all due respect, Mugly, let’s open the field up a bit).
Here are a number of TBs from the Fingerlakes Thoroughbred Adoption Program. In some cases, youth will make a difference, but they’re all pretty nice horses. So how would you all rate these? In my experience, it gets harder when the horses get nicer, but there are still conformation issues with some of these horses.
http://www.fingerlakestap.org/
I’ll play:
#1 Love how deep through the heart, don’t like the shoulder angle, do like the head/neck. Pretty good prospect for a lot of things, bet she’ll jump, but I wish the shoulder angle was better.
#2. “Meh” describes how I feel about this horse. Front end better than back end, hip is very short, neck is short. Let’s just say I sure as hell can’t see it doing anything very athletic.
#3. Had to open the image in a new window as an ad was hiding him, but I have to say, I love this one! You could pick on the goose rump a bit but I don’t find that is a “problem” flaw. Love the shoulder, he’s deep through the heart, he’s compact, his neck and head are lovely, legs look very clean. I would pick this one out as a polo prospect.
#4. Meh, again. Is it just the pose or are his front legs set on oddly, too far forward? I don’t hate him but I don’t love him. He is only four and may look better more filled out. He will adopt because he is gray and will probably be a perfectly nice low-level whatever for his adopter.
#5. Charlie Charlotte. Don’t like it. Hate the shoulder angle, standing camped under or is camped under, short neck. Although I could see this being one of those funny looking horses who performs their heart out.
#6. Terrible picture, cute little three year old that has a lot of growing up to do. I hate to pick too much, he’s so immature looking. I think this is a pretty nice horse that needs condition and a better photograph!
#7. Structurally, I like her. She is thin and lacks condition but my only big criticism is that I think she’s light boned for her size. Again, a goose rump but I don’t dislike that. May very turn out to be a wonderful horse. I love the shoulder/depth through the heart.
#8 Must have JUST come off the track, she still looks like a 2 year old she’s so underweight. Not a huge powerful hip but otherwise I like how she’s put together. She’s small enough for polo; this is another one that I could see someone trying for it. She’d fit in better with that with her neck set than if someone tries to make her into a dressage horse.
The rest do not have conformation pictures.
#3 to me is the nicest horse by a mile.
I think we pretty much agree:
#1. Worth looking at: Sometimes I think a horse who is leaning forward just slightly looks like it has a steeper shoulder angle than it does. I’d like to see this one move. She does look nicely balanced.
#2. High croup, possibly behind at the knee, something odd in the angles of the hind legs. He has a kind eye.
#3. I like him. His neck might be set a bit low, but again, he’d be worth looking at.
#4. Bruno. I think this one would be worth looking at. Here again, he’s leaning forward and that throws off the shoulder/leg angles.
#5. Charlie Charlotte. Weird hind end (I don’t quite have the language for this), straight shoulder. Meh.
#6. My Pal S.P. Terrible camera angle. Scrawny neck. Butt looks more mature than front end. Growing? Or badly put together?
#7. Doctor’s Classic. Funny croup. Weak-looking back. Camped out. A better photo might make the hind end look less problematic.
#8. Our Montana Dream. Cowhocked or standing funny? I like horses that are huskier than this and he’s eight. Horse may also be VERY high behind (look at feet in photo).
#9 (sometimes you get a conformation shot if you click on the thumbnail) Bell Buckle. The only true fugly in the bunch. Straight shoulder, weak back end, very upright in back. Very pasted together. Yuck, but pretty chestnut color.
#10 Penalty due. Terrible photo. Long pasterns, funny hip/croup/hind end. Lightweight legs.
I’d want to look at #s 1, 3, 4. #3 is small for my taste, but he has substance and poise.
Hey Mugs, why not follow this up with what you do like??? Everyone is always so down on breeding with the economy, and obviously, WAY less breeding needs to take place, but if nobody continues to breed the good ones during these tough times, and the idiots keep it up, we are going to be in some dire straits as far as quality is concerned…
So find us some mares that you think should be bred… and maybe some ideas as to who you would breed them to…
I’m thinking there’s not much wrong with that blue roan that a little muscle wouldn’t fit. She looks terrible now, but work her and I bet she would shape up into a respectable horse. That rump is never going to be big, but with some fitness it would be much more balanced.
Also, almost no one likes perlinos. But perlinos, like cremellos, throw guaranteed color. Of course in this instance you would get a guaranteed Buckskin sow. For sheer ugliness that poor little perlino has to be the ugliest one of this lot.
And then there’s the ever popular ‘Oh, your mare is crazy? Breed her, it’ll settle her right down…’
Although you can’t judge it from photos, temperament is paramount in broodmares and far more important than in stallions. So are manners. A mare teaches her foal how to behave, how to treat humans, and what the rules are. If your mare has lousy ground manners she *will* pass that on. If she is human-aggressive, then you will end up with two human-aggressive horses.
If she is marish and throws another mare you will likely have two marish mares. Sigh.
And actually, I think ‘marishness’ may be purely physical. I’ve personally seen a mare in heat show almost colic-like signs…tucked up in the abdomen and signs of pain in the eyes. I do think some mares get uterine cramps when in season and…well…you can’t BLAME them for being grumpy. (If that had been my mare, I’d have given the poor girl a dose of bute…she was miserable). There are things you can do about it…things that are not breeding them. There are a number of herbs that help even out a mare’s cycle and if that fails you can give her regumate (Although be careful…regumate should not be allowed to come into contact with the skin of breeding age human females as it can cause irregular periods, PMS, cramping and also miscarriages…ALWAYS wear gloves when handling that stuff. Or get a guy to do it).
And the rest is poor manners. A mare who is flirting while you’re riding her, in heat or not, is showing poor manners and needs to be gently but firmly told to save it for the paddock later. Just as stallions can be trained to be ridden around mares without causing problems, so mares can be trained to behave while in heat.
Good post. Most mares with “fire breathing dragon” personalties are just misunderstood or allowed to have bad manners. Mares don’t play games any more than stallions do – be black and white, fair and firm or you will end up with a monster. Beginners should start out with geldings as they’re more forgiving of novice handlers & riders who make mistakes on a daily basis. If a stallion can learn to ride past mares, then a mare can learn to keep her gaskins together and ride by a stud. I have a dragon turned teddy bear in the barn and she is now an absolute love. With thanks to my little QH alpha mare who helped me dissuade the bad manners and reign of the dragon.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/grd/2587030980.html
A perfect example of byb fail.
I prefer mares, geldings are far to boring. Why ride a horse that will just plod along the trail when you could have a mare that thinks for herself. I much rather have attitude than to not have anything to work on.
I’ve met more than a handful of perfect conformation mares that are crazy as a sawblade on fire. The ugly ones seem to accept their fate and work with you.
Someday I’ll dig up a photo of the Percheron x Standardbred that I am working now, size of a percheron at 17.1 and still growing, but the width of the standardbred and gait of a gum-ball machine. Who ever thought to breed that should be shot… He tries hard to please, and thats all that counts for now.
http://livinginthesaddle.wordpress.com
Or you can see a picture of him on zee blog ^^
I need to introduce you to the gelding I ride. He’s far more ornery than half the mares in the barn put together…it’s not a hard and fast rule
.
I was going to say the same thing about my gelding. I am the only person he hasn’t tried to attack. I have raised him since he was born and will always have him (lucky for him!). He is as quirky as they come but he is smart, a fast learner and has very nice movement. He’ll be one of those that takes the extra effort and will be the best horse I believe, and he is cute, cute, cute!
Mugs, how do we attach pics here? Do we still have to use PhotoBucket or a link from a website?
Both the perlino (ugh, hate the colour) and the palomino are not horses I’d describe as ‘fugly’. The straight hocks and roach back of the perlino would make me think twice about how I used her, but she’s how I would like a bad horse to look – some conformation faults, not broodmare material, but overall decently put together without the cut-and-weld look that the bay mare has, or some of the previous table-leg back, straight post leg examples we’ve seen on the blog where you look twice at the picture and think ‘nobody can possibly have bred that.
The palomino looks like a decent horse all around. She’s relaxed with a decent stride, her topline is level and harmonious, and her backend seems to match the front. I’m more concerned with the way she is muscled up and would like to see her in person and moving before going any further, but she looks like a nice all-round horse to me.
I knew I’d have egg on my face for my comments on the roan mare. She’s definitely bigger in front than rear but something about her says she’s tough, although not very pretty. Out of all you showed us, I still think she’d hold up the best to hard work – but no, I wouldn’t breed her.
I still say, if you don’t like nearly all the things about your mare, do NOT breed her. Some stallions possess the genetics to somewhat ‘rubber stamp’ their progeny, but just as many mares do the same thing. Stallions are impressive with all their muscles, cresty necks and big jowls so it’s difficult sometimes to look past their presence and see what they truly are. I still have 3 of my deceased stallion’s babies. The gelding who is a spitting image of dad is 100% his dam’s personality, the mare who also looks like dad is 100% her dam between the ears and from the poll back, the gelding who doesn’t look like either parent is 100% his dad’s personality. Breeding is a gamble at best.
You are so right about breeding being a gamble.
Is that mare cribbing or windsucking? Giving her the benefit of the doubt cribbing might mean she has ulcers but windsucking is a vice that I have yet to see cured. There was this big, ugly, off the track QH mare at one of the places I worked as a youngster, with a foal by her side, on a 8 acre pasture with other mares, and that thing would stand and windsuck all day long. Pulled down more fence boards then I care to remember.
For a few years in the early 80′s I worked at a Breeding Farm. They had the whole scope of breeders/owners. This place stood multiple stallions and if they EVER rejected a booking fee I never heard about it. If you had the money they would breed what ever you brought in. Had very little to do with improving the breed.
Is it just me? That perlino mare at the top bear a striking resemble to Wilbur the pig from Charlotte’s Web.
I am not a “young horse” person at all. Never have been but I’m no horse trainer. I need my horses to have 8-10 years of experience and have a good personality before I buy them. So maybe I don’t get the breeding thing… but… if you’re planning to breed your low quality, poorly conformed, untrained POS mare just “to have a baby”… why not go to your local auction and buy a weanling or yearling for $25 like I’ve seen them go for?? Saves lots of money, “saves” a horse, and you can still “have a baby” to leave sit untrained in your field, which is where you know your precious home-bred foal will end up anyway when you realize it’s too much horse for you.
I had a mare once I vaguely thought about breeding. It flahed into my brain for all of .0000002 seconds. Considered it, threw it out the window. The mare was a bitch, or at least, she hated me anyway. She had 2 foals already that were unimpressive. And her conformation wasn’t all that, either. And on top of that, I’m no horse trainer and can’t “do” young horses…. oh, and I can’t afford it. LOL. It was a very short .0000002 seconds. But the stallion was GORGEOUS
http://www.kshai1715.wordpress.com
Horses. Life. Photography.
Now that I have finally bought a horse, I am amazed at how many times I have heard, “Are you going to breed her?” No, I’m going to ride her. She had a reasonably successful racing career – 19 starts, earnings around $100 000 +, good bloodlines, is sound, sane, good conformation and a temperament to die for. She sold for $35k as a yearling.
One friend said she would throw lovely babies. I said you’re probably quite right, but for less than what I would pay for a decent stud, I could save 2 more off the track and ride them in months rather than years. Besides all of that, there are just too many risks with pregnancy and foaling. I would never forgive myself if something happened. There are times where I can see there would be a temptation, but another huge factor is what would I do with a foal?? I have ridden a lot of green horses but never done anything with a foal. Too many ways for me to bugger that up.
Never say never. Sound, sane, well-conformed mares with temperaments to die for are the ones that should be reproducing. Does the friend who thinks she would throw lovely babies actually want one? Breeding a foal for a specific person who would take it as soon as it was weaned would get you out of most of the handling. You could even require the buyer to come work with the foal until it was weaned. I have a friend who did almost all of the training of the foal she bought until it was weaned.
She has a 20+ OTTB and would probably be interested – eventually. Ok, I won’t say never….I’ll change it to not very likely. Maybe under those specific circumstances.
I was surprised at the San Diego craig ad……the text was scary but the photos showed neat, clean, decent fences, basically OK place…… the cremello is nice (from what you can see) if you can get past the color.
So she ‘rescues’ horses but will still breed the OTT mares if you want…nice (gag).
If I had to buy one, I would probably go for the perlino. The color isn’t my favorite, but I do like horses with choppy gaits. One of my favorite mares “rode like a brick” and I wouldn’t mind a horse that did the same. She definitely isn’t breeding material, but she might make a nice riding horse for someone.
The “Butt-Highness” horse photo is crooked, and when you straighten the silos in the background it becomes clear that the horse is standing on a significant slope, front legs are on dirt that is quite a bit downhill from the hind legs. So we really can’t tell (from this crappy photo) if the horse is butt-high or not.
It really amazes me how people can’t be bothered to spend 10 minutes learning how to take a proper sales photo. It’s NOT that hard. Google knows:
http://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+take+sales+photo+of+your+horse
If you are shopping, bad photos can be a sign that either the people don’t know that they have a better horse than the photos show (rarely) or that you are just going to waste a lot of time (usually). BUT if you are looking for that pin in the haystack good deal, don’t discount ads with bad photos because most people WILL discount those ads, and that’s often where the pearls are hiding.
Standing ovation for you—-JC you are preaching to the choir here! I totally believe that how you photo your horse and what he’s DOING in the photos will help determine where he goes when he’s sold.
I found this, pretty interesting to compare the photos with the descriptions:
http://thismustbehell.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/how-to-sell-a-horse/
And aside from the obvious reasons for avoiding a badly pictured horse in terms of conformation or behavioral issues– if I see a photo that hits any level of weirdness anywhere, it makes me think the seller might be difficult to deal with. Ever try to buy something expensive from someone who’s a few fries short of a Happy Meal? They sure make it hard.
What do you guys think when you look at photos on a horse’s sale ad? Do you immediately ‘fail’ the ones with bad photos, but have a good description?
Also, please, before breeding your mare consider her conformation *for breeding*.
Somebody I know had a 17h TB mare who evented through preliminary. The mare has a wonderful temperament, is one of the few Thoroughbreds I have ever met who can go barefoot, pretty color if you like grey. Nice head. Good competition record.
So, of course, the owner bred her. Eleven months and a large vet bill later she had an undersized foal (who ended up a hand shorter than both parents) and a mare with a sway back.
If your mare has hips like a gelding, no depth behind the girth and front and hind ends in different zip codes, no matter WHAT good qualities she has, don’t breed her. Fortunately, things ended well and despite her small size the daughter turned into a halfway decent dressage horse, but I took one look at the mare and when somebody said ‘she bred her’ I went ‘what? If that’s her belly AFTER foal drop..’
Make sure your mare has somewhere to PUT a foal, a wide enough birth canal to push one out without problems and a compact enough back to lug around the extra weight…please. And have a repro exam done…sure, they aren’t cheap, but neither is having your mare covered half a dozen times to no result because she’s not actually firing properly.
Here’s what I am dealing with. We sent my husband’s mare to a RESPECTED trainer here in this area. Where she was maimed. This mare has had clean legs (blemish free) her entire life. Even with round the clock care she is going to have a HORRIBLE lump left on her leg from the injury. (she is being treated by a very good vet, I even HAULED her out of state so he could do the first surgery on her) Now, we are hoping against ALL odds that she will be sound to ride. If not we will have a pasture puff. I have had several people tell me, “well just breed her”. Um HELL NO. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE this mare. She doesn’t meet MY requirements to breed.
She will stay with us not matter what, even in this crappy economy. If we are unable to get her at the very least pasture sound I will euthanize her and bury here on my place.
As a side note. When we are all done with the drama surrounding her injury. I will name names, post pictures and I even hope to be able to write an article. Well, I don’t have to write it, but I would LOVE to give the information to someone who will, it’s my belief that there are people out there can learn from what has happened to me and NOT have the same thing HAPPEN to them.
What is the nature of the injury?
It involves, Tendons, tendon sheath and “skinning” of the legs. It’s UGLY.
I forgot to add, that the paint overo mare doesn’t “look” like a typical cribber to me. I DO AGREE she appears to be “sucking wind”. But if you look at her neck/chest muscles, the muscles don’t appear to be well developed as they do with typical cribbers and she seems to be missing the developed muscle along the bottom of her barrel that indicates that she sucks wind.
I do think it is a crappy picture of the mare. I myself would PASS on her just because she “appears to be cribbing” and lets face it, first impressions are everything.
As for Hancock bred horses. I have yet to meet one that ISN’T COLD BACKED. I do know the big basin cowboys love them because even though they are going to hump up and blow at the start of the day the horses will go all day long in rough country.
Hope my ramblings make sense.
I do not think she is a cribber either, also based upon the neck development — and she is the only horse pictured that I’d want to own. That is not a bad mare, just not a great pic. The rest are, plainly put, complete shitters.
She is my favorite of the lot also.
I don’t know if there’s really an extreme prejudice to riding mares, I think people just don’t….think. You don’t spay mare nearly ever, so the poor thing is always able to be bred. Though there are a bajillion stallions out there that shouldn’t be stallions, once theyre cut, then, welp, they’re just a riding horse, so they’re ridden. It’s easy to just be a fool and go, “whatever, I’ll breed it” and take the easy way out and never break a mare. You can’t make any $$ off a gelding unless it’s ridden, so the backyardigans will ride those and keep their mares consistantly pregnant, until they can’t afford them anymore, but THEN what? You’ve stuck the poor thing into a very bad market without the single skill that most people want: being broke.
FYI, I thought the black roan was a mule at first glance.
Breeding unsound mares drives me INSANE. A pasture injury is one thing, if they can hold up to being bred, fine, but, anything else that’s a conformation issue or a genetic issue – WTF IS THE POINT???? “Oh, my mare broke down at 8 because of navicular/terrible pastern angle/a non existent hock angle, HEY HER UTERUS STILL WORKS THO!”
Longtime Lurker here, and since mare conformation is up on display, I would love some critique on my mare. She’s an unregistered 1/2 Arab, 1/4 QH, 1/4 Morgan. She just turned 6 and is turning into my ideal trail horse. However sometimes I look at her and think “Jeez your funny looking.” Don’t feel the need to sugar coat it for me, I just want Honest feedback from unbiased eyes. Best image I have is linked below.
http://nhmoonshadow.deviantart.com/art/Conformation-Critique-260718409
The only thing that I could really find wrong with her was that she is mutton withered with not much of a heart girth but otherwise I think she looks pretty good. I like the hip on this horse and how sloped and long it is. She has a good loin connection and her back and neck aren’t long. She looks like her front legs are a little toed out but I can’t really tell with out a front profile. Her stifle looks weak but training can usually solve that to build it up. Looks like all the right things from those breeds came together to make a nice looking horse. I bet she is comfortable to ride!
Defiantly a nice ride now that I finally got her going! (this summer was her first trail season) Thank you so much for the feedback, and the mutton withers was the ONE thing I knew. LOL. Only 14 hands and takes a saddle with a FQHB tree. Hmm as for the stifle, will working her more consistently on the hills build that up in your opinion?
Hi Caeli,
I like her. Looks like a nicely built riding horse to me. And her color is really pretty…I wouldn’t kick her out of my barn
What is it you think is funny looking? She looks like a solid citizen.
Sometimes when she moves her hindquarters (which is wide from behind) look like it was oversized. Or built weird. Most of the time its fine, but I’m not a conformation buff so outside eyes are great! Her color is an interesting thing. I purchased her as a “sorrel”. As she matured her mane is slowly paling and now has white above the withers that is slowly coming in. Her tail is cream at the top then it transitions to red and ends in black. And every shedding season I discover more and more white hair spread throughout her coat (but mostly on her rump).
I think she looks great. My first impression is that she’s well balanced, compact, level, and has a terrific shoulder. I love her type of build. Like Robin said, I’m not certain if her fronts (and possibly hinds) are toed out, it’d take an end view to be sure. She’s not one I’d kick out of my barn!
I’m no expert but she is super cute! I agree with the other two . . . nice looking riding horse!
Good quality doesn’t have to be super-expensive but you should expect to pay for it. Quality doesn’t just mean bloodlines, either–a good horse in excellent physical condition, well-shod or trimmed, broke, sound for its discipline, and happy will cost more up front than some poor half-blind tailless nag…but the payoff is higher in the end.
Here, for a mere $4000, you can get the two-time winner of the state fair for her discipline:
http://www.draftsforsale.com/ShowAd/index.php?id=4e825d7d391c9
Her seller sounds like a good one–her pictures show her in excellent condition and they are advertising her in a way that is appropriate for her age and breed.
Or for $2500 you can have a reserve champion halter mare, who is not set up well in her picture but there’s pulling power in her frame:
http://www.draftsforsale.com/ShowAd/index.php?id=4db60d032a77c
Or you could find a full herd dispersal and get a quality, genetic-tested, broke, shown, and bred for about that same price:
http://www.draftsforsale.com/ShowAd/index.php?id=4e6f70fc7364c
Yes, you have to pay for them up front, but foals out of those mares are much more likely to sell to a good buyer than foals who are barely rideable and the only thing they have going for them is being yellow.
Most of my best mounts were mares. Some would have cranky issue during heat cycles but I worked with it and was aware of it. Delt with it as it came but I never accepted ill behavior or bad manners when going through thier heats. I delt with sluggishness, or a little pissyness or oneryness. I knew the mares and worked through it as needed and didnt make a big deal of it. My late mare would be sluggish and less responsive to my cues during her cycles and I accepted that and delt with it as it came. I just designed worked accordingly, no sense in making both of us miserable. I worked this Arab mare that would get a bit fussy durning her heat cycles and she would get oversensitive in her response time and I worked through it and designed a working shedule that helped the issue along. Sometimes it would be the best of sessions because I could get a bit more work in and I was able to keep the training lessons more diverse. Another Arab mare I knew was just a cranky heifer no matter how you put it. The one thing that would work with her was to give it right back to her. Not a normal way of doing things but if she bitched about being touched I touched her more and she would give in and stopped cranking about it as much. If she squeeled at me or snapped her teeth I would squeel right back at her and would make her move away or go away, and usualy a good smack on the neck would stop that teeth snapping. To ride she was a good mount and pretty well honest but alot of horse and I never let any green rider on her, she was reserved for the more experienced riders. She was from the Bask line of Arabs which realy doesnt say much. Her son (gelding) was much like her in many ways, had to keep him busy when riding him or he would make things intresting, he did get better with age though. However, I never trusted him as far as I could throw him esp in the saddle.
I have owrked with TB mares that were at both ends of the spectrum. One big dark bay mare (cant remember her name) was the most hatefullest wench one could ever meet and she was that way ALL the time. She didnt liked to be touched or even looked at through the stall bars. I never gave her an inch but I was never mean to her. I still groomed her though she hated it and I still took care of her like the others and I didnt let her get my goat. I even gave her treats every now and then. Then there was Office Wife. A big sorrel mare who was the sweetest mare I ever ran across. She was half blind and had one ovary and was always the sweetest thing. She was one of the farms favorite and Getting her pregnant was not the easiest of task. She would leave the herd to come and visit you when you made your rounds checking the mares or grooming them out in the pasture. It broke my heart as it did to all of the other farm employees when I found her dead in her paddock. She had a nasty abcess that was being treated and was kept up in one of the smaller paddocks near the barn so we could keep a closer eye on her and during one of my night watch round I found her dead in her paddock due to a ruptured uterin artery. It was sad.
SO I have delt with mares quite a bit through out my equine career and they are just as diverse as the geldings I have worked with. I have worked with some not so nice geldings also. There was this one who I would have traded Cranky Arab mare above for any day. He was un predictable and was sneeky and would kick your bloody head off if given the chance. Event hough I laid down the law with him he was bound and determined to be an out law and I NEVER gave him an inch let alone a fraction of a centimeter for all it took was just that for him to nail you one. Just like how some humans are just bound and determined to be a convict no matter how many times he/she has been imprisoned, “rehabbed”, in solitary confinment, chained up or in “the hot box”. Damned in every way.
If this is a QUARTER HORSE of any size then I am a monkey’s aunt. Looks more like a small Morgan x Saddlebred than QH. http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/2622863633.html Cute none the less.
I definitely agree, that one looks like a Morgan X. I would believe Morgan X QH, though.
Then again, in that first picture she looks like the chestnut carbon copy of my first mare, and she was a Welsh X TB, so who knows. Very cute, but definitely not a QH.
Oooh! I like this one, she’s super cute. If I was in the area I would be SO tempted to go and have a look at her.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Poo, forgot to add this one too.
http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/2622376378.html
Says the horse is not for beginners but is ok to put a small child up on with no helmet and no one holding the horse.
And I guess you dont have to train a horse to listen to you because they automatically do that on thier own. Good greif.
“I’m looking for something that will listen to me an do what I want them to do .”
Someone needs to tell her to stop looking and learn the language, otherwise she will always be looking and screwing up every horse she gets her hands on.
I’ve met plenty of horses that were not for a beginning rider (either lack of training or personality under saddle), but were angels on the ground and/or around kids.
Wow! Is that horse even on a lead rope? And I still don’t know what the horse really looks like. . . :0)
One more for posterity.
http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/2572764973.html
I am sorry but no amount of maturity is going to help this poor horse. Also the picture i see shows the horse with front pasterns flatter than a fritter. But its a horse of colour. Wow. (rolls eyes)
Ouch.
Wow–just wow… (and wow not in a good way)
Oh ouch. Am I the only one who thinks she looks underweight? Or is she just really, really stringy?
Oh good gawd – that`s about the saddest looking horse I`ve ever seen – EVER!
I’m not a Thoroughbred person but I managed to find a really nice broodmare for sale that is really well bred and has won $94,000 on the track and they are only asking $1,000 for her. http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-325031
Her back is an awful shape – a real roach on her and her tail head is really far back compared to where her thigh is. Also might be the angle but looks to me like her head and neck are too small for her body, really shouldn’t be bred ever. Whit her back you’ll stuggle not to have problems there – these are some nice examples of tb’s
http://calgary.canadianlisted.com/animals/beautiful-thoroughbred-mare-hunter-jumper-or-event-propspect_881670.html
http://www.brookstonefarms.com/AnnaAngle6202.jpg
http://www.rosemeadowstud.co.uk/index.php/stallions-at-stud-kent/bay-mare/
http://www.amarugiahorse.com/images/E.PickADilly.jpg
Just one question: WHY???? That’s an awfully nice mare, especially if she’s already produced a stakes winner. Why would someone be unloading her for that ridiculously low price?
Oh, her roach back would make me say no thank you. She may have won some money and foaled out some nice babies (but look at who she was bred to…) but I’d pass….
Oh goodness that TB mare has a roach back like a camel o__o
I worked on Parish Hill farm back when they were located in Midway, KY. when I was in college.
Something is up with her (other than just no the best conformation) . Why didnt they put her through the broodmare sales or this mov. sales/ I say she is hardto get into foal or has problems with being “dirty” all the time. If the mare has had only 3 foals (the ones listed in description area) wonder why? (Nothing says she has had more but perhaps she has and they didnt prove to be much, not exactly stellar producer in my book). With the way she is conformed in the rear end I say the conformation of her external genetalia lays flat like in an L shape and a Caslix is manditory for her as soon as she gets in foal. (I know, many mares have caslix put in with out a real need and as precaution but with this mare i say its a definate need.) If her last few offspringss are doing well on the track then why sell at such a cheap price tag even if she is 20 years old?.) The raoched back isnt severe but not something that i would want in an offspring. I have seen much worse and no genetic transfer of such flaws. Weather she has has several foals or just the few, the price tag is still low regardless of of economy, something is not right and something screams “buyer beware!”) I would pass her up.
Oh…My….Goodness….is this where we say Sweet Rosie is a pocket pony who loves people and loves being groomed?.
Rather like unfortunate looking humans who have “good personalities”
Oh there is not much of a market for Thorobred mares, I just went to an Auction in Ontario last week, there were several young, well bred off the track Thorobred mares, already being worked for Eventing, hunter or dressage, and at least 3-4 of them went for $300 (you know where they were headed) i think the best price on these was about $1100, and she was well started and beautiful, she was the one I was going to buy if she only went for $300 and I have actually no use for a Thorobred mare but would have took her home anyway. This sale had about 70 horses and at least 25-30% did not sell as the owner did not get the price they wanted. There were a few in the $2000-$3000 range, most under $1000. Sad but a testiment of the lack of value these days.
So, I was perusing some APHA bloodlines this morning and then checked in here and almost died laughing. Snarking at broodmares is exactly how I spent my morning. Now, I just have to share the perlino mare I found in my internet adventure. Her owners think she’s the prettiest and most well built perlino mare they have ever seen. I would have to agree, even with her faults she IS the most well put together perlino I’ve ever seen. It was almost shocking to me that she wasn’t hideous
http://www.heritagepainthorses.com/Horse Sold/double_dose_of_ivory.htm
I hope the link works… I’m terrible at linking!
Totally OT, but http://shameinthehorseshowring.blogspot.com/ is back up and running!
is it true that “once a pencil neck geek, always a pencil neck geek”?
A bit off topic but these poor girls make me think about the young, crocked ones that are broodies because they were broken down by hard use before they ever grew up. I am pointing a finger here at two-year old racing, reining futurities etc where the babies are backed before they are two, shown before they’re three and over the hill before they are seven – and usually so wrecked that their only hope is the breeding shed because if not that its the kill pen. In my own dicipline (H/J) and in dressage – and I know many others – the babies are backed at three, not put into training until they’re four and rarely shown before five. As a result these horses are still at the top of their game at 10. They compete at the international level well into their teens – Hickstead is the world champion jumper, he won gold at the Olympics at the age of twelve and will be competing at the 2012 Olympics at sixteen. My point is these athletes have a far better chance of a life after competition because they are allowed to grow up first – can anyone really justify running a horse into the ground and destroying his chance of a future when a little time to grow up would change so much? Could we outlaw two year old racing and make the only classes in the show open to horses under three in hand or harness classes? Anyone else agree or am I a hopeless dreamer?
I think that even the “responsible show/work home” market has dried up at this point. Sure, there’s always the ribbon-hound that is looking for the Next Big Thing, but those are the same type that abandon their has-beens and oldsters at the drop of the hat for the Next Big Thing….not a home I’d want to send my prospects to.
I just don’t think that any breeding right now is wise.
I constantly look at horses for sale ads. Craigslist within 150 miles, and Equine.com/Horsetopia/Dreamhorse… very little is actually selling. Even great horses aren’t selling for what it costs to produce them. If I had 5k to spend, I have no doubt I could purchase a horse that with the right rider would excel at its breed show of choice (except racing, cutting, reining). That is not a healthy horse market by any means.
All that, and I can find you a dead broke trail horse for $1000 or less for the weekend warrior type. If you want color, add $500. This is not a market I’d breed anything but the top money making horses in. No matter how great they are.
Just saw this on craigslist
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/2609226652.html
What is up with that mare’s rear end? Is she trying to park out, standing funny or just f’ed up?
Major sickle hocks – she was born that way, poor thing….
That TW is not bad looking at all with exception of the hind legs from stifle down. It is not unusual to see a foal of a TW standing with such length in the rear like this but not wanted when in adult hood. the problem is that the length from the stifle to the point of hock is to long. The cannon bone in the rear legs seem to be of average length but with the long, somewhat flat sitting tibia that causes the bone to join the hock at a more tight or close angle. This horse is standing camped out in rear to compentsate but if she was squared (in the other phtotos) you can see she is very much sickled hock. Being slightly sicked hock in a TW can work for the benefit of the horse and the smoothness of the running walk. The longer the reach is in rear, the better the gait and the over step of that hind hoof. a horse can be camped under in the rear and also be sicked hocked. the tibia is shorter (though not always) and sits more upright and the attatchement to the hock is a little tight but its the attachment of the cannon bone to the lower hock that is screwed up due to usualy a longer than average cannon bone. Sickled hocks Is pretty much just lengths of bones and angles of attatchment sights in the hocks..
This horse’s hocks will work harder and depending on the usage of this horse will depend on how much wear and tear they can handle. also this horse might twist a little in the stifle and perhaps in the hock as well to compensate for the problems (not due to soring issues). I would have to watch her go but I say she can realy get a good over stepping lick going. At least the hocks are not to small AND sickled, that would be trouble early in life. I cant see the horse being long lifed on the trails that have alot of hillage.
I’m a huge fan of Fugly and have read every post since the beginning. I’m knowledgeable about dog structure (have shown and done performance sports for 40 years), but know almost nothing about horse structure. While I can spot a straight shoulder or a eye neck on both dogs and horses, I have no idea what things such as a “short hip” or “low neck tie-in” refer to. I’ve tried looking these up online, but all I see are Fugly-type posts criticizing a particular photo… However, without an arrow pointing to the body part in question… and without a comparison photo of a good representative, this isn’t helpful in developing an eye for quality horses.
As an idea for a future column, Mugly, could you maybe do a side-by-side photo comparison showing some of the things you are looking for in a horse, with a good and bad representative of each? And of course with arrows pointing to the part in question, for those non-horse-experienced readers like me. It would make the whole Fuglyblog a lot easier to understand. I can sometimes spot what’s wrong with the backyard-bred horses, but more often am left in the dark about what specifically is incorrect about their structure.
Some to consider: tie-in, weak hip, short hip, long loin, ewe neck, short necked, straight shouldered, cow-hocked, long/short pasterns, toeing out, etc. (I know some from dogs, but many readers might not know some/all of these).
Thanks!
Sharon in Istanbul
Damn you, spell-checker! I meant to say “ewe neck,” not “eye neck”!
That’s a mghty ‘classic champagney’ lookin’ blue roan….. even though in many circles, champagne is a desireable purdy culler…. a lot of people seem to have them and not know that’s what they’ve got…..
“She’s not broke to ride, probably because the saddle kept slipping over her head.” LMAO!!!!
Seriously though, I decided 3 years ago to geld 2 of my 3 stallions because I had always told myself that I would take back or keep any foal I produced and keep it until the day it died. Three years ago when my last foal hit the ground and the economy was tanking, I knew it was time. Even though I had great usable bloodlines, I was putting great minded foals on the ground and they were out there doing great things, the time I knew had come. The third stallion will probably never cover an outside mare, but he leads a very happy and productive life keeping my aging mustang company and enjoying the occasional ride in the arena. One day down the road I might breed him to produce something for myself, but that would be it. All 3 are broke to ride and the two that are gelded are used in my lesson program. As far as my broodmares, one is broke to ride, the other sadly is not. She came to me with serious trust issues, which took years to overcome. Because of that she will live with me till the end of days. The other is pushing 30 now and enjoys being a yard ornament. With so many young ones to ride, she hardly ever is saddled, but when she is, she is a fantastic trail horse. I tried 5 years ago giving her to a friend who trail rode a lot. She gave her back to me a year later…. the mare had too much go go and the other horses struggled to keep up with her on trail. Who would have thought. So they are retired and enjoying the back 40 to themselves.
Mugs, PLEASE bring this rescue to the surface! I know you have a powerful viewership, and having worked for this “rescue” a long time ago, I know these accusations are not false and that there are worse stories. IHR is a terrible rescue group.
http://www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_3818c25e-ea44-11e0-ba3c-001cc4c03286.html#.ToT78B0k224.facebook
Awwww… bein’ a sucker for a walking horse… I’d be making a call on that girl. Might be worth the drive.. don’t believe the ‘show potential’ for a second… but.. she sure does need an upgrade!
If that person wants a horse that will do everything she wants it to do, she’d best find herself a sawhorse.
Off topic here, but can anyone tell me what happened to the Horse Reunions website?
Okay correct me if I’m wrong, but all the research I have done says navicular is not hereditary. That it is strictly a man made problem. Horses that are related that are kept in the same or similar way can have it. Of course conformation, hoof shape, and hoof care play a factor, but no where did it say that it was hereditary. So does anyone have proof that it is hereditary?
I think it is hereditary insofar as there are conformational traits that strongly predispose a horse toward developing the problem: straight shoulder, upright pasterns, small feet. That is why I wouldn’t breed a mare who had it – why does she have it? Look at her and you’ll see why, in most cases.
If a horse with beautiful conformation has it, then absolutely, I blame the shoeing first.
So if conformation and hoof shape are major contributors how can it NOT be hereditary?
EXACTLY!!! Conformation is inherited.
It’s easy to see that none of these mares pictured are breeding stock. But it bothers me that people are so quick to trash them. Better to trash the breeders and not the animals themselves. The animals are already here, thru no fault of their own. I have a little grade mini, which I love dearly. He thinks he is wonderful and I treat him so. He’s worth his weight in gold to me. Would I breed 30, 100, or 300 of him? No, but if I found another like him I would snatch him up quick, as a teammate for mine for a driving pair.
Got one for you….
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150308634871627&set=pu.199029536626&type=1&theater
“Socks is a 6 year old part draft mare with a great attitude and a smooth, easy gait. She is a joy to ride and beautiful to look at. Available for lease only at DeWitt Stables for the 2011 – 2012 season. Next year she is scheduled to be knocked up and give me a 2013 filly.”
Here’s the question. I see downhill, lean in the bone for the mass, a thick throatlatch and a head the size of a VW bug. The text implies that the owner/breeder is looking for a horse to keep and ride. How much does the unseen factor into breeding decisions? We can’t see how she moves. Or what her personality is like. Temperament is one of your fav topics, Mugs. What do you think?
Tacky notes on the wall don’t improve my take on the place:
“If you like your ride tip your guide” ? What, are they like waitresses? Are they not being paid a reasonable amount for the work they do?