Move Over, Keith
Sep 20 2011
Keith Hall has some fine company. Here comes yet another well established horse owner with absolutely no excuse for the condition of her horses.
“I didn’t know,” isn’t going to work for this toad, she delivered the horses to their new home after dark. Do you think it’s so she can claim she couldn’t see their bones in the dark, or was it so she could beat feet before the new adopters saw the train wrecks being dumped in their corral?
I can’t wait for the excuses to start to fly on this one.
Dressage Olympian Could Face Neglect Charges 
(above) The bay mare with a body score 1 on the day she arrived at her new home, Lost Hearts & Souls Horse Rescue.
by RMHP Staff
California dressage trainer Gwen Stockebrand is being investigated by Sonoma County Animal Control for allegedly neglecting two of her horses.
She recently gave away two aged mares to a family, dropping them off in the dark of night. The next morning, the new owner says he was so shocked by the horses’ condition, in the daylight, that he called Stockebrand to come get them. She was unavailable – she was reportedly at a dressage show in Las Vegas.
The horses are now safe at Lost Hearts & Souls Horse Rescue. According to the non-profit’s founder, Betsy Bueno, the younger mare named ‘Sister’ was Stockebrand’s former event horse. Now, the black warmblood cross in her twenties is a 3 on the Henneke Body Condition Scale.
The bay mare ‘Valerie’ has a body condition of 1 meaning she is emaciated with no body fat. She is in cardiac distress, has a heart murmur, and is in critical condition. She may need a blood transfusion says Bueno.
The vet caring for the horses attributes the horses’ poor health to starvation.
Animal Control was called out to Stockebrand’s place last October; however she was only given a warning, according to Bueno.
“This sickens me that a fellow horse person, one of our own, could do this.”
132 comments to “Move Over, Keith”
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That just sickens me. There IS no excuse for dumping. I’ve only seen this twice in my area and both were old show mounts given to soft-hearted people. Gives the appearance that the owner only uses the horse as an accesory – like a purse or hat.
Doesn’t impress me if the owner had some success in some way in the horse world. Behavior like this eliminates them from the title of horseman.
This woman is a freaking former Olympian!! Olympian’s (and their mounts) aren’t just incredible athletes, they’re role models. She won a silver medal in the 1979 Pan Am games! and she most definitely doesn’t deserve it. What a horrible, horrible woman.
http://snarkyrider.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/this-makes-me-sick/#comment-203
YES. She should have her medal REVOKED. I mean Michael Phelps almost did for smoking dope. Why wouldn’t they for EXTREME neglect????
You know, sometimes I see neglect cases and after I read the story and see that the owner was some old person, or someone who knew nothing about horses, I don’t forgive them, but I understand how their horse(s) could have gotten in that condition.
But when something like THIS happens… It just makes me want to drag Gwen kicking and screaming and throw her in a deep, dark hole. She knows how to take care of horses. She has the money to do so. She has hired barn staff. This is truly, in every sense of the word, a case of neglect. When you have the finances at your disposal to give every horse under your care of the best of the best, yet you purposefully decide to look away from your once prized showhorse as she gets skinnier and skinner… well, there’s a special place in hell for you lady.
Here is a link to another article about the horses:
http://animalconnectionblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/well-known-local-horse-trainer-formally.html
Thanks for the link. It sounds like she will be charged with felony neglect, which is entirely appropriate. We can only hope she does jail time. Amazing that she could care so little for the horses that took her to the top.
She’s actually quoted as saying “the horses aren’t that skinny”. Oh and she was inducted into the Sonoma County Horse Counci’s Equus Hall of Fame JUST LAST YEAR!!!!
http://snarkyrider.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/this-makes-me-sick/#comment-203
Not that BAD?! How the hell more BAD could they be before they are DEAD? What a rotten POS! It will be interesting to see if Sonoma County does the right thing and denounces her status.
I agree she needs her status revoked and quickly. What a loser. Ppl like this make me so mad. Our so called roll models are less than to be desired and that is a CRYING shame. Shame on Gwen, shame on her. Just another pathetic POS out there making the lives of thier animals miserable. Shame!!!
WTF?! So she has money to show, but can’t afford to feed her horses?
How the hell does that work? Did she really think nobody would find out about this? She clearly has the money and knowledge (one would hope) to make sure these horses got the best possible care. Even if she didn’t know how to care for a horse (unlikely), she’s got the money to pay someone else to take care of them, but instead she dumped them!
This idiot should be banned from showing – that would send a very loud message to all the people out there that think it’s ok to treat horses like a car – they are LIVING things, they can’t be locked up in a garage when you are done playing with them.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
I think it is even worse than that – she is apparently picking and chosing which horses she feeds, and starving the ones that are no longer working for her. That makes her a special kind of monster…
Ugh that is absolutely sickening. I hope they take away all the animals that weren’t starving as well. I’m sure one day they will no longer be working for her and it will only be a matter of time until they wind up like these poor things, or worse.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
When people like this mistreat, abuse, and/or neglect horses it makes me livid. These people know better. Is there any way we can get her club affiliations so we can educate them as to what type of member they have? To me, sanctions like this are greatly needed to let people know they can not do this to the animals that got them where they are. You can buy the cheapest hay and feed and generic wormers if you don’t have a lot of money.
You can always hand graze on the lawn an couple hours a day, do your own trims and minimum vaccines, bed your horse in shredded paper, or just pick up the phone BEFORE things go too far south. There’s just no reason why a horse has to get this bad before someone pays attention. If Gwen is well enough to show or train, and has horses that look like this, she should get the maximum penalty allowed by law – period. No extenuating circumstance excuses, please.
I totally agree! I know people who don’t feed their horses the way I do but their horses still get the minimally necessary food, worming, shots, farrier, and other upkeep and they are well-treated and loved. These horses deserve better than that.
If there’s a will, there’s a way. We all have our own way of feeding and caring for our horses but I’ll bet that most of us have horses with the same body score, shiny coats and happy eyes regardless of our husbandry practices. I boarded a mare for the last 10 years of her life whose owner didn’t have money to speak of. When their gelding passed on, the mare came to live with me so she wouldn’t be lonely and moved again when I bought my own place. She never missed a meal in the 20-ish years I knew her. As she aged, her appetite diminished and her rectum sank into her pelvis but she was happy and healthy with a body score of 3 the last couple of years. She had her teeth checked (few left), was wormed and trimmed, brushed and loved. She developed a bad colic one night and after IV banamine and a few carrots, she was walked out back and peacefully euth’d with her ears up and in no pain. She was 37. Her owner cared, I cared. If you want to care for them, you will.
She’s in the Equus Hall of Fame of the Sonoma County Horse Council – http://www.sonomacountyhorsecouncil.org/content/gwen-stockebrand
http://snarkyrider.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/this-makes-me-sick/#comment-203
If your horse is very well trained and essentailly bomb proof you could also think about free lease or lease the horse out. Since she is well known, I think if she “couldn’t” afford their care she could have leased them out and allowed children to ride them. Oh but wait. She’s got money at her disposal since she can apparently still show, and I for one highly doubet it’s a schooling show, as how she was there when the family looked at her horses. I hope when she’s found guilty I seriously hope she’s banned from owning any animals. Oh wait that would be like telling Micheal Vick he can’t play foot ball as he is going to rot in hell. Or Cleve Well’s that he can’t be in any horse association as he has no soul.When will people figure it out. Harsher the sentence that involves some serious $$$$$ the less likely they will reoffend? Helllooooo, ban her from owning or riding any horses and let’s see what happens to the next, locally, nationally and internationally known owner, rider, trainer that pulls this shit. Bet they wouldn’t. Because their honey pot wouldn’t be there anymore. But alas, how much does anyone wanna bet she’ll just get a slap on the wrist and next year we’ll hear the same thing……
What an utterly revolting individual! The usual excuses of “too depressed”, “no money due to the bad economy” will not fly, let’s hope “too busy showing and instructing” will not wash, either. It sickens me to see people getting away with this sort of neglect and abuse.
I am not going to defend this trainer but I would like to point out that there are ALWAYS two sides to the story.
Perhaps she was planning on euth-ing the horses and the other lady begged her not to. Don’t claim this does not happen. There have been countless stories about “saving this horse or that one” only to have the horse go down later. Or worse yet, be used to make money for a rescue only later to be found out that the horse was put down months ago (and yes, this too happens).
I think about someone I know who has had horse after horse dumped on their farm. To the point that they call the police the minute it happens and then are stuck having the animal euthanized. Twice now a horse was dumped on them only to have someone call the cops the VERY SAME DAY. In once case, due to a tattoo it was found out that the horse that was dumped was owned by the person who called. Pretty crappy of them huh? Dump this horse AND try to get someone else to take the fall for it?
On the flip side, how about the person who begs and begs and begs for someone NOT to put a horse down. They take it and realize its too much for them to handle or the horse needs more than the flippant “groceries” everyone claims it needs. Hay pellets only work so far. Horse that has started renal failure due to old age is NOT going to put weight on (or keep it on for long).
Before starting a new era of flaying people or breaking out the tar and feathers, perhaps some real live education on what it really takes (and a little more than a bag of hay pellets should be discussed) to rehab a horse. Or, even better, how about some real live advice on WHY NOT to ‘”save this one”/ WHY euth-ing a horse is a great plan when you are talking about a 25+ year old horse with questionable conformation (but it’s a grand-daughter of so and so —wah wah wah) when you have babies with great conformation and a long life ahead of them standing on feed lots. THAT I would damn near PAY to read!
So, if you plan to euthanize your horse at some point in the future it is acceptable to STARVE them first? I’m just trying to understand your logic here. I have a 21 year old pensioner who may be starting her last winter – but i’m sure as hell not going to quit feeding her because her knees are bad and she may be put down soon…
Gwen was cited last October by Sonoma country Animal control and ordered to have a vet come out and check the one mare called Valerie. The vet floated the mare’s teeth and examined the horse. Apparently, other than the horse starving, there was no disease in the horse. After Lost Hearts and Souls took in the two horses, another vet examined them and did blood chemistry. No disease. Only lack of food explained their condition. Gwen was most likely too cheap to pay for veterinary euthanasia. So, just let them starve to near death. That’s a great way to go. This case has been going on for almost one year now! It finally reached a head when Gwen trailered these fragile horses to be adopted by an attorney and his young daughter. So for one year Gwen has neglected these horses and left them to die in excruciating pain somewhere else? This Gwen has NO moral compass at all. Thank GOD Lost Hearts and Souls took them in. They are working arduously around the clock feeding these horses and tending to them. I say HURRAH and go volunteer some hours with them and help!! Let’s COWGIRL and COWBOY UP!
While it is true that there are 2 sides to every story, this is not some uneducated do gooder who just doesn’t have enough knowledge to properly take care of an aging horse. This is someone who obviously has enough knowledge in the horse world to show and compete at higher levels. (She rode in the Olympics for crying out loud! That isn’t for new horse people!) http://www.sanbardressage.com/pages/boarding.html Not sure if that link will show up or not but she has a website all about her services and this is clearly not someone who has no clue about horses.
If her horses were actually suffering from the effects of old age and not neglect, she knows enough to euthanize – not dump them on someone else.
Sorry, this is the link that shows she teaches there 3 times every week.http://www.sanbardressage.com/pages/training.html
We spoke to Betsy Bueno yesterday and she had an independent vet examine the horses when she first took them in. It was determined that all their health issues stemmed from starvation/malnourishment. Had these horses been properly cared for they would have been in fine health for their ages – which, by the way, Valerie (the bay) is approximately 28 years old (to have survived this long that mare is clearly not done and I hope she’s able to overcome her human-caused health problems) and Sister (the black) is in her early 20′s.
There is simply no reason for a horse to be in this condition. If the horse has medical issues, the humane thing to do would be to put it down before it gets in that condition.
How to rehab a starving horse and the ethics of when to put an animal down has been discussed many times here. Check the archives, if you can’t find an article that directly addresses it (though I remember several), try the comments section of any starvation story.
I get how there’s two sides to a story, but I really, really can’t see anything other than deliberate abuse here. As evidenced by her former and current show schedule, Gwen had the knowledge and the means to take care of these horses. As far as I can tell, they were even at her facility where she keeps her current show horses. She got a visit from animal control a year ago because they both had a body score of 3. If there was a legitimate reason for them to be thin at that point, they should have been brought up to weight or euthanized within a few months of that. Instead, a year later they’re even worse. She tries to give them away. The new owners take one look at the racks of bones that she dropped off overnight and call the cops.
Can you see any alternate interpretation where she didn’t knowingly starve two animals for upwards of a year? I’m pretty confident in calling her abusive scum. If more information comes out and I’m wrong, I’ll apologize. But I’ll be shocked if that happens.
The rescue stated they had an independent vet out to check the horses — the vet determined that the sole cause of the horses’ health issues was starvation.
If I had a horse (and I did) who looked bad — I’d have a whole slew of vet bills to show that I was trying to do something about it. My poor old mustang had cancer and had quit eating much, but she was otherwise bright eyed and interested in life. On my vet’s advice, I fed her as much as she would eat and waited until she decided she had enough before euthanizing her. She was probably a 1 on the scale when she died — but I’d spent $1000+ on vet bills to fix it. And had anyone asked, I would have immediately produced them — and given the good Samaritan my vet’s phone number. If I did so — I doubt the county would have to step in. I also didn’t try to dump her as a companion animal on some poor well-meaning family in the middle of the night!
I judge her guilty as charged.
You might be able to convince me that a horse had dropped to a body score of 3 despite your best, veterinary assisted efforts to care for it, especially if it had had a debilitating illness. You should not then give such a horse to someone else as a companion animal. Who drops animals off in the night without having the new owner(s) present? I realize some commercial transports arrive in the night, but anyone I have ever know was there, or had someone there, to meet them.
I can think of no justification for letting a horse get to a body condition of 1 other than a well monitored, again veterinary assisted, end-of-live leading to euthanasia.
I am hard pressed to believe that this woman is anything but a waste of oxygen.
No, I really don’t give a rat’s ass what the other side of the story is…the vet was out there previously and she got a warning. She could have done something right then and there but she didn’t. How come so many other people can take care of a situation like this but this “professional” can’t? Her medal should be revoked and I don’t give a shit what her excuse, story or reason is. I doubt she has one anyway except the horses “not earning their keep” any more.
I read this yesterday and am still hoping there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Otherwise, I agree, there is a special place in hell for her.
Also, would you consider dating the title of each blog? I’ve found no other way to find when the entry was written except by the comments, since they are dated.
Every blog entry has the date next to the title – there’s a little tab-looking-thing on the left column.
Some mobile devices won’t show you the little tab with the date. I know its not visible on Iphone. On the computer there is a tab with the date there though
It breaks my heart when horses are treated like this. The group that I got my horse through is a placement agency not a rescue. They have no foster homes and the horses they list often have very little time to find a home or the owners will ship straight to auction or slaughter from the track. After I bought my horse, my sister had looked at their website and happened to notice one of the graduates listed was now being sold by a 16 year old girl. She bought this mare for $100 and she was in terrible condition. She looks almost exactly like the picture above. Last fall she was purchased in good health from the track. The person who bought her had a trainer who hated that horse and talked her into selling. She went to a well know “sport horse breeder” who from all appearances stopped feeding her on arrival. She was then sold on to a 16 year old who began trying to save her but then (parents??) decided to list her for sale for $100. My sister grabbed her and with help from a number of people involved in the group who originally got her listed and sold off the track is now getting her healthy again. This placement group does the best it can but because of the way things have to happen so quickly, they a screening process but not a lot of ability to follow through. The next several weeks will be brutal as the racing season comes to an end…a lot of horses are dumped really quickly. I’ve even heard that some horses are just abandoned at the track. They really need better enforcement at the track if that is really happening!!
The people who are earning a living off of horses and then treating them like this and dumping them are especially evil. Hopefully all of her horses will be taken away from her before they all end up this way at the end of their careers.
Whom ever the vet is, they are NUTS! There is no way those horses come to a body score of 3. That is just way to fucking generous and make the vet look like a dirty vet.
Actually, according to the news story they were given a body score of 3 in October, 2010. I really hope that Valerie makes it! There is NO excuse for treating any horse this way!!
I believe that was when she was cited the first time and then the one horse deteriorated further to a BCS of 1, but I may be mistaken.
To be clear, the mare Valerie was judged as a 1 on the Heneke scale by the vet. The other mare called Sister was a 3 and sinking fast into a 2. Just wanted you to understand. Last year, Sonoma County Animal Control scored the horses as 3, which is deplorable enough. Gwen was warned and cited back then. The law meant nothing to her. Only glory in the competition ring. Her ego. And she left her horses to starve for another year.
To be fair, the bay is actually termed a 1. The black warmblood is the one that’s a score of 3, and it’s hard to see that one but she looks like she has a bit more meat on her poor bones.
What I don’t get is this business of “warnings” from animal control. If you can’t document that this is a recently arrived rescue, or a health condition, or some such, then why not get fined right off the bat? A “warning” fine to start with, then steeper for a second “warning,” then a seizure. And establish visitation schedules for anyone who has received warnings. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work with child services? Once you’re on the radar it’s hard to get off it …
Perhaps I’m just being naive, but I think it would put plenty of money in animal control coffers and it would certainly be an incentive to document and monitor any horse condition, rescue or otherwise.
I agree with you, but here’s how that first A/C visit probably went: “Oh, I didn’t realize they’d gotten a bit thin. I don’t come out to the back pasture often, the stable hands are responsible for throwing them hay. I’m going to find the closest one and scream at him for it. Now look at this gorgeous facility and beautiful show horses I have. I’m a former Olympian and have a barn full of ribbons. I love those horses and I’ll have them back up to weight in no time.” The A/C officer works 80 hour weeks and still can’t get to everything, so she decides to spend her time following up on other cases and puts this one on the low priority pile.
It’s rare to find people sociopathic enough to feed some animals and starve others when there’s plenty of food to go around. In an ideal world animal control would have funding to follow up on everything, but as it is there have to be judgement calls. And they’ll sometimes be wrong.
If an athlete has talent, it doesn’t make them a moral or kind person. It’s the same with actors, singers, etc. Just because they have ability above and beyond your average Joe doesn’t mean they can’t be sadistic, spoiled or uncaring.
I have a tendency to confuse the issue also. In order to become the caliber of rider and trainer this woman is she has to know inside and out what makes them tick. I can’t imagine having that much knowledge and still not loving them.
I guess sociopaths can be successful riders too.
This is one aspect that worries me when I think about lower end horses becoming unavailable. $$ does not make a horse lover and I hate to think of low income people eventually being priced out of the market. I guess that’s another topic for another day….
“I have a tendency to confuse the issue also. In order to become the caliber of rider and trainer this woman is she has to know inside and out what makes them tick. I can’t imagine having that much knowledge and still not loving them.”
It’s what scares me about selling a horse, even for a high price and even to a top rider. There are no guarantees, and damn it, I want some.
Mugly –
I agree with you. You know, there are sociopaths that do very well in society, but they still lack empathy – not all sociopaths become killers (in fact it’s hardly any of them). I have been reading a very scary book on this subject and they estimate that 1 in 25 people actually has a sociopathic personality. I am at a loss to explain this trainer’s behavior except that if she is a true sociopath she will find ways to blame others (her workers, etc….), and no amount of punishment will ever make her become sympathic to animals (or fellow people for that matter).
The end of your last post does raise an important issue. Costs for everything have skyrocketed to the point where I think the purchase of the horse itself is now the cheapest part of owning one. Literally, for what I pay for boarding/feeding/training in southern California per month for one horse, I could easily buy 2 horses (but forget about being able to house and feed them). It’s back to becoming a rich woman’s pastime because all the associated horse care costs are exhorbitant.
What’s the name of the book? I’d like to read it…
Me too. I’ve known a couple of sociopaths, they come from normal families. It’s a puzzle, and I always wondered what might make them go over the edge and become a killer, because believe me, you know they don’t care about anything but themselves.
People often rate on the scale without being capable of being diagnosed as sociopaths, which along with psychopathy are both things that fall under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorder.
I don’t disagree that this woman seems to display some of the more disturbing traits, but not everyone who registers on the scale, not even at the higher end, are actually serious, potentially dangerous sociopaths. They are, however, often manipulative, emotionally detached, and chronic liars. Animal abuse is actually one of the higher end signs, and a more dangerous one, because it is one of the harbingers of violent escalation.
That’s why it’s always amazing to me that it’s treated so (relatively) lightly and without concern. Abusing and torturing animals, particularly “pet” animals or companion animals, is something that often can lead to murderous behavior towards other humans. It’s sort of horrifying that people just shrug it off, or that it’s so often punished with a slap on the wrist.
(For the person this post is attached to.. this wasn’t really directed at you. I just tossed it sort of in the middle to address the subject generally.
Abnormal psych is an interest of mine. )
I love abnormal psych too. After a failed relationship with a man who nearly made ME nuts, I learned about narcissism, bi-polar disorder and a whole slew of others. It helped me put my feet back on the ground and realize that I wasn’t the abnormal one! I read the Narcissistic Family and it all made sense. I have learned a valuable lesson. People who are sociopaths, bipolar or extreme narcissists wil NEVER change. Nothing is ever their fault and all the talking and reasoning you waste your breath on will mean nothing to them. Just because someone is a top professional in an equine sport does not in any way signify any loving feelings toward the animal. The hores is a tool used to achieve status (narcissistic supply) for the rider. This type is quite gifted in appearances but is void of any true compassion and love. Hit this type where it counts, in the wallet and popularity. Take her down hard.
The Sociopath Next Door?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=sociopath+next+door&sprefix=sociopath+next
Mugly: You may want to try reading The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, it`s a real eye opener and amazing how many of them walk among us.
Apparently this woman is one of them.
The purchase price has always been the cheapest part of horse ownership… The biggest problem now is the huge disparity between the purchase price and the maintenance costs…
That’s when banning people from owning animals for life come in. If someone lacks empathy, they simply don’t care. Isn’t that why we have jails for all those serial killers who simply didn’t give a damn? Am I saying that people who neglect animals don’t deserve a second chance. Some do, but people like her don’t. What did she think? That because all of the retiree’s that worked their asses off for her and did what she want that she thought she could get away with giving them a tenth of the care that they would have gotten had they still been ring quality? She’s lucky she’s not next to me or I might be tempted to throw rocks at her every time I saw her…… I hope all the horse magazines have been notified, I just hope enough people will shun her for life and not board, train, or give her horses, thus she lives on her own deserted island…… I hope she gets what comes to her and that is a hefty fine. Maybe she’ll learn empathy that way… Because we all know how well jail corrects unwanted behavior…..
So here I am at the feedstore last week (Friday, I believe) and I order 60 bales of hay. Thirty each Bermuda and alfalfa. I have one horse. He is 18 years old, OTTB, and I am not riding much these days due to time issues and having no saddle that fits him and me properly.
My hay bill this year was roughly 50 percent HIGHER than last. I paid just a smidge over $1K for the hay this year, $700 and change (actually for MORE than 60 bales) last year.
I am collecting recipes for variations on mac and cheese. It’s gonna be a tough winter, but NOT FOR THE HORSE.
Certainly if I can do it, some Olympian (or Pan American Games-ian) can do it. As someone mentioned, there ARE two sides to every story, but the “other side” of this one better be a doozy.
Just sayin’.
Cook the KD like normal and brown some ground beef at the same time, then when its done mix it all together. You can add things like onions or green peppers or whatever you want as well. Basmati rice is a good thing to buy when you’re pinching pennies as well. It may seem more expensive than minute rice, but the same amount of dry rice makes double the amount of minute rice when cooked, and it tastes WAY better.
Been there done that, the bright side of it is, just think of how much weight you’ll lose for summer!!!!
You had enough money to buy 60 bales of hay in Cailfornia and still afford Mac and cheese…. you must be RICH!! LOL
Buy canned chile and hot dogs on sale. Add to Mac-n-cheese. Will feed one small adult for almost a week for less than $5
I buy my hay direct from the farmer and the cost was still $75 per ton more for alfalfa, and $65 more per ton for timothy ($185 and $140, respectively). I have 6 horses and just bought 12 ton of hay. Fortunately, I could stand to lose a few pounds…
For the mac & cheese, try adding canned diced tomatoes or stir some tuna into the mac and put the cheese on top.
Basmati rice also has a lower glycemic index and is more nutritious that minute rice. Buy some curry powder and turmeric some place where they are sold from bulk containers. A little of each goes a long way. With them you can make a variety of Middle Eastern, Indian, and Mexican dishes. Good old red beans and rice is cheap, simple, and nutritious.
Thanks to all for the recipe suggestions. I love ethnic foods and basmati rice. I also love mac and cheese with tuna, ground beef, hot dogs (well, turkey franks–one has to maintain one’s standards, tee hee) and all your suggestions sound wonderful. Plus, carbs help with sleep and do tend to warm us up from the inside, a good thing for cold winters.
Gonna carb load this winter, fersher!
When you get tired of the Mac and Cheese, don’t forget about Top Ramen. You can actually add in frozen veggies or chopped celery, carrots etc and pretend you’re eating Stir-Fry. The dollar store and big lots are a great place to shop – They often have packaged food that is getting ready to expire and they sell it cheap.
I have 3 horses and just put 12 tons of hay in the barn. It is enough to last a whole year plus some extra in the event we rescue another horse over the winter. I don’t want to be paying $19 a bale in January like some of my friends were last winter. The timothy I got is really nice and was only $185 per ton, but I had to drive 200 miles round trip to get it.
If you are looking to eat good food for minimal cost, try reading the Poor girl Eats Well blog. We make the curried chickpeas and it is sooo yummy and uber cheap. It is a blog to show people that you can eat healthful and delicious food for very little money.
This is really sad, no excuse for this. I quit showing because I got sick of constantly being thought of as a terrible horse abusing person for no reason other than I make my living in horse racing. There are bad people in all industries, even in the higher rankings, and this is one of them. I’m going to print this and stuff it in the face of the next person that thinks they’re better than me because show people are so much nicer to their horses. I had one lady sit there and knock horse racing for using too many drugs 10 minutes after the vet was there to inject her horses tail before a show. Sorry, I know this is slightly off topic, but its just kind of a sore spot for me.
Zelika, there are good and bad everywhere. I’ve ridden hunter forever. Back when I rode a lot as a teen, I groomed at horse shows all over. I saw a lot of good, and I saw a lot of bad. You always hear the horror stories of what some people do to horses in all disciplines. We’ve all heard bad about hunter, jumper, dressage, WP, and of course racing. I got my horse straight off the track 8 weeks ago this Friday (she last raced 8 weeks ago today…11th out of 11!). We (everyone at the barn) were prepared for a hot, excitable horse and who knew what she had been through?? She is the quietest horse in the barn, has excellent ground manners, is completely unflappable under saddle (just slowly starting to walk & trot her in the warm up portion of lessons) and has an amazing temperament. There are no doubt a lot of jerks in the racing world but I don’t think this mare has ever encountered them. The man I bought her from had only had her a month and no doubt spent more on her than he made but even though he couldn’t afford to keep a losing horse and wanted her gone, he really liked her her. He even got up on the trailer after she was loaded and kissed her on the nose.
So yeah, a lot of idiots everywhere in the horse world, but some really amazing and good people. Mocha had gone through quite a few changes in owners and trainers, she was really lucky to have only met people who treated her well. And if do say so myself, she has landed herself a pretty decent home now too.
That’s when you just have to take the high road. I show WP and hope to do dressage. When I know shit goes on I know the proper steps to avoid the shit. I rode a AHA 20 something gray gelding so I knew what true western pleasure was when I started to learn. However if you had stuck me on a AQHA or a APHA, I would have thought that heads almost touching the ground, four beating, dead look, and artificial movement is what WP is about. Nope. I know the truth. Some how if people acknowledge that what they are doing is wrong would probably scare them out of their skins. So they denigh until it seems what they look at is indeed right to them. *Sigh* Some people have their heads so far up their asses there really is no retreveing them…. I also deal with ex race horses. Some trainers/owner/jockeys love their horses so much they try everything they can to find them homes. But they are few and far between here, which is sad. Detox a horse and teach them what “whoa” means and generally you have an excellent mount. There still are a few out there that are psyco to the definition but are few and far inbetween.
This story really pisses me off. So much.
As a person who’s now in my 40s but has had & shown horses since I was a kid, I’m proud to say none of my former personal show horses were treated this way … disposable. So far they’ve all stayed with me, in a healthy FED state, until they were euthanized when it was their time.
I now have a rapidly aging herd, because I worry so much about selling them & all the horrid possibilities that could befall them, because I know not everyone is like me in their care for their horses & it would kill me to find one of my horses in this sort of state.
To let your horse, former show horse or not, slowly starve to death is completely unforgivable. Even more so when you know better.
I agree with above poster who said this woman is “a special kind of monster” to pick & choose who gets fed & who doesn’t. Its just disturbing beyond words. Can you imagine going to your barn & only feeding SOME of the horses? And letting other ones just waste away??? I can’t even imagine it.
Although I’m not religious, I can’t help but hope there a special kind of hell these special kind of monsters go after they die so they can live out the rest of eternity in torment.
Ditto to everything. For a second there I thought I wrote this post. But I’m not quite that senile yet.
Agreed. This entire story makes me angry. I don’t know if it’s possible to have an Olympic Committee yank her medals but I’d sure like to see it.
Those poor mares.
intoler:
I cannot imagine not feeding everyone here. Ours are all special and semi reitred as we have not shown in over five years, but everyone gets fed and they will “talk” to you if you accidently miss one of the horses or are slow on the way out to feed the steer or the sheep (who all have voices that are probably heard all the way to town). We had an incident where our one “hard keeper” (who actually worked the hardest of any of the show horses… won the most) got a bit thin over one winter, as in really thin. I had had surgery and was not outside as often as I should have been and her weight dropped. I am to this day still appalled. I know she understands, but I still feel I let her down. She had saved my life at a show and I let her down…… She is my avatar………
I check all of these animals every day and share the feedings with my husband. We also have 100 gallon water tanks in each pen and in some stalls. Simpely because the water stays cooler that way and is right where they can get to it and we can check it each feeding. In this heat you cannot let anyone go without water. Our sheep are so spoiled that if you weed the yard one day they stand and bawl for more weeds that day and the next two. Then you have to split of the weeds for each group and the steer or they all bawl. Talk about spoiled. WE had two chickens a hen and a rooster that lived here until they passed on even after the hen quit laying. They earned their retirement. We feed our barn cats the same as we feed the inside cats as the barn furries are working furries. NO rats, mice, snakes or lizards.
When we left for the first vacation, as such in three years, several house cats got outside and all but two went back inside. I was a basketcase over my furry-friends. The horses and stock were fine as one of the helpers is a trained vet tech. The cats would not come to the strangers, But it was a strain to know thngs were not going well and we were 1500 miles away.
While “Gwennie” might be an Olympic medalist, was it a group medal? AQnd seriously what color? 79 is still when Germany was really still the tops in everything….. Makes a difference and WHO actually trained the horse(s)? Enough Money can buy a good made horse even from Germany! You can really do a nice job “teaching” if the horse(s) is top caliber and has been retired from the ring. And it does not now or ever excuse starving a animal who has been your friend and companion. Some of the techiques used today (Roll Kur, etc.) are a direct insult to the years and years it takes to train upper level dressage horses CORRECTLY without the use of gimmicks…… There were complaints in Europe years ago about how the Americans rushed everything to get from start to Grand Prix in under five years.
Some one said it very well. Just because they have talent does not make them a good person. I have heard rumors for years about this individual. I have spoken with people who have interacted directly with her. Based solely on hear say I am not at all surprised at the condition of those dumped mares.
I hope that the SoCo Animal Control throws the book at her but I doubt it will happen.
Justice will have to come from a Higher Power and we will not be privy to the outcome.
Sorry can’t get on that bandwagon. I for one am not interested in waiting…..and I do want to know the outcome. The answer is to demand justice what ever it takes…phone calls, letters, ect…love the poster idea. You may want to be careful you sees you putting them up, I’ll bet she has lots of $$ for a lawyer, carefull wording is advised.
Okay, you Vegas people! Print this blog, find the show this witch is at, and post the pics all over the place! Let’s OUT her at one of her obviously more “favored” venues!!!
Ohhhhhh. That’s a way better than throwing rocks at her. Just make sure it is every place she goes. Feed store, mall, etc. Pass the word on…. Let’s see how she likes starving when her business goings into the ground and no one is willing to help her. Just like she didn’t feed her horses because they couldn’t earn her any more money, so she felt they didn’t deserve to be fed.
You can send an e-mail to one of the members of the Sonoma County Horse Council and suggest that they remove her from their Equus Hall of Fame. There is a contact function on their website.
http://www.sonomacountyhorsecouncil.org/contact2
I’m reading the same book, it’s a great one, The Sociopath next door. Really excellent!
If I wasn’t first worried that the stress might kill the horse(s), I would load them up and take them to the next show where their old owner is showing at. Then, lead the horses around and tell everyone who I got them from. Bet that would surprise alot of people. Anyone with grand old re-tired show horses who have earned their retirement, when they are old and suffering, should be gently put down at home, instead of “getting them off the farm quick” before they die and give them to someone else for them to worry about – any pay for. Not something most horsemen and horsewomen would do to their old friends. My older show horse is 21 and he’s staying right here till the end and then he’s being buried here – right where I know he is.
That’s when you take pictures and video and put them every where you can. Hell no fury like an animal lover, or at least someone who CARES!
this is off topic, but since i first read about it on here, i think an update is in order.
randy byers, featured several times by the former fugs, is in jail in canada on immigration and customs charges. he has been working between minnesota and canada all summer, leaving a trail of horses with welts on their butts from his whipping technique, and owners who are suffering through their guilt that they let him touch their horses. i saw him in action, and a friend who facilitated a clinic for him said all the things mentioned in the original post could be seen and heard there…the whipping, the riding the horses until they were dead tired, the vocal abuse and innapropriate comments toward the clinic participants.
if the Mugs would contact me, i can fill in some blanks. sorry to post here but i can’t find an email for contact.
This makes me want to punch Gwen in the face, and that’s not an urge I get very often.
THESE WERE HER SHOW HORSES. The ones that toted her ass around and are probably pretty damn good horses! I would probably give my eyeteeth and right arm for just one of those mares!
I hope to high heaven and back that whatever groups she has membership will no longer accept her as a horsewoman. The cherry on top would be sponsorship and animal rights taken away too. Just because she was/is a high level equestrienne, she DEFINITELY should not be allowed to get away with this. I agree.. she’s supposed to be a role model for horse people with brains and compassion, not the abusers!
Just… ARGH!! Hoping that poor Valerie makes it and that Sister finds a home that can pamper and spoil her for the rest of her days.
Oh, the rage I am feeling over this one!
There is never any excuse for this type of neglect. NOT ONE SINGLE EXCUSE. Not from any average jo, and certainly not from a professional horse person.
It is simply UNACCEPTABLE for the horse of an Olympian rider to be in this condition. You would think that, at the very least, if she didn’t have any compassion for the poor animals, fear of what it would do to her reputation would keep her horses in top shape.
Apparently, she’s ignorant to the blood wrath of the horse community. Formal conviction or not, THIS is the type of thing that is going to spread like wild fire, and I guarantee that no matter the out come, she will never hear the end of it.
There is a special place in hell for people who have the means to look after their animals and refuse to.
There are people living below the poverty line and in the STREET who have animals in better shape than her horses.
Do you think we could treat her the way she treated those horses? Maybe then she’d have a little compassion.
You know… I just spent two months dealing with work issues that won’t go away. I have NOT been on one of my horses for two months. Two months without riding, grooming, clipping… it’s driving me nuts. My horses miss me, and we have frequent conversations about how much I wish I were rich, and could simply tell work, “Gee, sorry, my horses need my love and attention.”
Yet surprisingly, I STILL manage to feed my horses. Their body scores have not dropped. They are, despite being less coddled the last couple of months, still basically happy with their lives. They aren’t starving.
When I was younger, it was my dream to become a Grand Prix jumper. I wanted to do that so badly, it was nuts, but I lived in the world of $1,500 horses, and open shows. I learned early that rags-to-riches stories were generally about the horses, NOT the owners and riders. There simply was no way to have the money to buy a ‘Great One’. There still isn’t money to buy a great one, let alone promote it. It takes thousands.. heck, in many cases MILLIONS, to buy and show a horse at a world level. It never would have occurred to me, however, that there are people out there who will spend that money, and then balk at the lousy couple thousand a year it takes for retirement care of that same horse.
It’s sickening when animal starvation happens, but it horrifies me when someone who is SUPPOSED to be upper class still abuses an animal by starving it. Where is the pride? Where is that recognition that you are in the privileged elite, and therefore have a certain level of noblesse oblige?
There is an alarming, growing attitude of “I GOT MY RIGHTS AND YOU STAY OUT OF IT” in this country.
Rights come with responsibility, but that part gets forgotten.
It is up to decent society to enforce that responsibility.
I was lucky and got a $5000 horse for $1600 in 1984 (owner was pregnant and the price just kept dropping), but we never showed beyond local open shows and some hunter shows. Driving an hour and a half to a show was a Big Deal. And I will never, EVER understand the mentality that a horse is merely a means to an end, like a show car or something. A local gastroenterologist is such a person. She won the Amateur Western Riding at the World (AQHA) a few years back, but that $80,000 horse isn’t loved. He’s well cared for, but you can tell he was trained using the classic un-nice stock horse methods, and his legs & feet aren’t made for longevity. Probably already gets injections…. I remember she complained about spending $40,000 on a nerved horse, but she did it anyway, because she wanted her daughter to win.
“There is an alarming, growing attitude of “I GOT MY RIGHTS AND YOU STAY OUT OF IT” in this country.”
That doesn’t bother me as long as no one suffers as a result,
That’s just it, though. Most with that attitude know deep inside that there is a reason they want others to ‘bug off’ or ‘stay out’. Seriously, I know a lot of people who want their rights protected, but they aren’t all defensive about who is watching them or questioning what they do.
We live in a society. In order to have protection and cohesion, we DO give up some rights, and one of those rights we lose (Thank God) is the right to do whatever the heck we want, regardless of who it might hurt. That’s what normal people call being civilized.
I wouldn’t so much call that “losing rights” as “behaving in a minimally societally friendly way.”
Part of the unspoken contract of living in a society is behaving by its rules. In my book, part of improving a society is protecting the rights and freedoms of ALL people, while simultaneously making sure those legal “rights & freedoms” aren’t harming other people. That’s what America is pretty much all about. To accomplish this, you make laws, and then you enforce them. Society agrees – in America by democratic vote – what laws are good or bad, and the courts are there to help navigate the messy parts.
Newsweek has a great special report this week about the status of women around the world. It’s perfectly legal to rape, imprison, kill, beat up, mutiliate the genitals of, and/or deny education to women and girls in many countries. Doesn’t make it right.
The patriarchal societies where half its people have no rights are generally crappy to animals, too.
Gwen Stockebrand will most definitely be burned alive at the stake in the court of public opinion. We ALL will never forget that her name belongs in the Hall of Shame. And that the Sonoma Horse Council just gave her a Hall of Fame Award last year? Obviously they didn’t do their due diligence on this wicked woman. Those horses have been starving since last year!
Keep the word moving fast and furious to as many people as you can. Gwen never deserves to own let alone ride any noble horse again. Shame on Gwen.
Unleash the furies, the goddesses of vengeance, and let Gwen suffer a tormenting madness the rest of her days. She can never lift her head up again in the horse world. Ever!
Grrrrrr…… This makes my head pound and stomach twist. She has MONEY and this is her JOB! I struggle everyday. My boyfriend has been laid off for 10 months, I have a disabled dog, my car needs work, and on yeah a horse to take care of. Kaileigh is a 16 yr old Arab mare that I have owned for 10 yrs. I was ” coerced” into buying her and $4000 at that. She was green, small for me, and not really what I wanted. Now she’s not as green but a challenge to ride, still small, and still not what I want. But I love her and take care of her. Board is paid, she has grain treats and recently
dewormed.Vetted over the summer and teeth were done. Feet are due for a trim, but I’m on it. Fat as a tick.
I’m rambling, but I am stressed and she isn’t. Has no clue and never will.
Oh and her being in the Olympics ? Lol I work with a guy who ran track at the Olympics. He’s a mess. Broke on drugs and just a real Ahole. Doesn’t mean a damn thing.
I’m with ya pretty, last spring we went from double income to just one (the smaller one), no health insurance and major health problems. The horse, the pony, the 3 cats, the cockatoo and the pair of cockatiels are clueless – nothing has changed for them. They are healthy, nutritionally nurtured, up to date on vet care including dental, nails/hooves trimmed, and paid attention to several times a day, while I continue to seek novel new economies that never endanger the animals’ health and safety. Keeping up with my responsibilities to the animals I brought into our lives is paramount, especially in this economy where once out of my care I have no assurance they will be well. Keep your chin up, breathe, stretch, and hug your loved ones of all species!
As to the human subject of this post, she is a discredit to the species. No hugs for her, a swift kick in the rear to send her into the jail cell is all I could give her. Oh, wait, she will get fed 3 squares a day in that cell…. maybe we should institute some alternative incarceration for her…. a dry lot chain link barb wire paddock surrounded by ice cream shops and steak houses outside of her reach maybe.
Please do not slander toads. I have never know one to starve a horse. They do eat annoying insects and are cute.
never known to starve a horse. Why can’t WordPress come up with an edit function?
One more try:
never known one to starve a horse. Maybe I need to go to bed.
PEOPLE! Make your children go to school for a degree to make money and have horses as a recreational pursuit!!!!!
Unless you happen to live in a rural area with few professional jobs but deep community ties. A college degree will not increase your paycheck in a service industry, and may in fact eliminate you from many jobs because you are “overqualified”. I still believe in “follow your bliss and the rest will follow”. I say teach your children common sense, responsibility and problem solving skills. Let them find their bliss and follow it.
The studies that showed a correlation between college degrees and income failed to take into account that the people getting those degrees (at the time of the original study) were people from wealthy families that would have been well off anyway…there are better paying jobs out of trade schools…and the long haul truck drivers make more than teachers…more school is not the answer for the vast majority of the population though it is a convenient thing to throw around
I have a bachelors degree in Animal Science (Equine Studies) and ended up just fine. I’m working for millionaires managing their private barn and have full benefits, a beautiful above barn apartment to live in rent free, a nice weekly paycheck, and free board for my two horses. If I had not pursued a degree I would not have this job, or the one before it. All of my fellow graduates in the equine program have secure, stable jobs in the horse industry as well. A few work for top trainers, one manages a dover saddlery, some work for pfizer, and the rest ended up at various barns as instructors or barn managers. None of them would have even gotten an interview without a degree.
It was hard work, but if horses are your passion than by all means pursue a degree and please don’t discourage other people from doing so. Be smart about it — I minored in business — but do what you love. I know I would never survive a 9-5 office job.
I’m going to weigh on on the school thing.
First of all, my degree has been pretty much useless. I took the wrong major…in England, where you don’t get to change majors unless you want to lose all of your financial aid. I know NOW I should have taken communication and journalism.
I still manage without a degree ‘in my field’, but not nearly as well as I would if I had one. So it’s not just school, but the right school.
However.
It is a total fallacy of this society that everyone should go to college. (It is also a fallacy that all eleven year olds should know X, as No Child Learns Butkiss mandates). College should be for people who are academically smart. For people who are practically smart, it’s better to learn a trade. Heck, I used to know a guy who couldn’t read or write but if you gave him a broken down car, he’d have it fixed in no time straight…he was a brilliant mechanic.
Saying *everyone* should ‘make their children get a college degree’ is not allowing for the diversity of human intelligence…and that diversity is essential to a stable society.
I am not sure who broke the story, but they should contact USDF and USEF they will ban her from competeing. They will give her a hearing to defend herself but garaunteed she will be suspended for at least a year. And once your name is on the list your reputation is pretty much like shit. I bet she will have students jumping ship because she can not sign entry forms as a trainer if she gets suspended. All I have to say is if you contact the dressage governing body about this you could do irreversible damage to her and she will pay for her abuse.
Cologirl;
Good advise. Hope someone out in California with absolute firsthand knowledge and info sends tuff off right now!
Yep…already wrote to Sonoma county Equis whatever council…..they have a big list of Hall of Fame’rs.
Well this is appalling! If you saw her house you would definitely not call her rich. Years ago Gwen was kind enough to take my sister in and let her live there for free. No one in my family would take her in including myself, she was a serious drug abuser back then(my sis). I never did take lessons with her, even with a discounted $80 a lesson it was still too pricey for me. Sad that she would let her horses get into this condition.
Is there a paypal link for the rescue that took these horses? I might have missed it, but didn’t see one on their web page. Thanks.
This saddens me. Back around 1980 or so, I went to see a dressage show about an hour from where I then lived. All the top riders were there and Gwen was the one that impressed me the most. She was a quiet & elegant rider and her horse preformed beautifully for her.
Now today, this…
amazing the number of people who have let a great horse go so low in life. I remember several years ago of a Derby winner ending up in Japan at a slaughter house there. What the heck are people thinking? Since these are people that we are supposed to LOOK UP to, and Aspire to be like, I am ashamed of them and of their actions.
This is the ripple effect of drugs and/or mental illness. There is no other explanation for this.
I’ve been reading on another web site allegations that Gwen is a drug/alcohol abuser. Sounds like she may have hit bottom. This may be the ticket to her finding help, or the end of the road. It’s all up to her, and she’s going to have to live with the consequences of what she did to these horses. I am among the many here who are disgusted at what was done to these horses. Gwen obviously has some serious issues, and long-term drug abuse would be a logical explanation. There is a multiple world-champion winning NRCHA big-namer who was caught shipping cocaine in boxes of products with his name on them. Had a long history of substance abuse. He said himself he’s a thrill-seeker and drugs fit the bill. He sort of disappeared for a while, but he seems to be doing pretty well these days, and I hope he’s found sobriety. He looks healthy anyway. I got to know him for a time through a common friend, and he was very humbled by his f*ck ups. As much as I want to ring Gwen’s neck right now, I hope she gets the help she apparently needs.
And I certainly hope that the FEI will be taking appropriate action, given that page 1, rule 1 tells us that the welfare of the horse is paramount.
Am I holding my breath – not a hope.
Cheers
Jenny
OT – I hope this is a joke. My brain is bleeding!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/2610953528.html
Elli (madison-bay) is the kindest, gentlest, most forgiving horse i have ever meat. she is kid safe. has some first lvl dressage training and also jumps up to 4ft ATM but can go much further. she has ben used as a lesson horse for small chrildren up to ther oldest of beganiers. she does not refuse fences. has no buck no bite. she ties, hauls, beaths, clips and stands for the farrier. she has had her feet neglacted in the bast form provies owner but has ruteen farrier work sence. we have owned her for about 2 years now pryer to that she was a race horse that was too slow for the track so she was given to us. she also has old scars on her leags (18 months ago form prissure sours form a student leaveing wraps on to tight over night. we have to cut down our heard to prepare for a move to california. email or call 253-254xxxx i will entertain any realistic offer
Wow! Unless whoever wrote this is dyslexic they need to get their asses back to elementary school!
Come on, people. The shock and awe of horses in bad condition at the hands of so called professionals really is melodramatic at this point. We all know that neglect (please note: not caring for a horse or ignoring a medical condition is neglect as defined by the law; not abuse) exists at all levels of demographics. The comments over and over and over of how horrible this is really is a waste of valuable educational space. I agree with NaughtyTobiano that these types of stories are perfect opportunities to educate or make a difference. I am sure every one who typed how terrible this is really believes in their comments. Great. But what exactly are you doing to make a difference in these animals lives or others? I have read the comments where you are in animal welfare or you rescue or this or that. But when it comes down to brass tacks, whining online is not going to help.
How about offering real live advice? And for the smart ass who said, “read the archives” that’s really crappy. Instead, maybe take 3 minutes and post a link. What does it hurt to reiterate something? It doesn’t. That is how humans learn.
I have some questions that I would like to see answered:
*Is there any evidence that vet care had or was being administered? We are talking about old horses and contrary to popular belief, old horses sometimes do not maintain weight despite everything you try.
*Why should she have put the horses down if someone was wanting them? Horses are in bad shape, maybe from neglect, maybe from an underlying metabolic condition, or the first stages of death via old age and someone offers to take them off your hands. Why is this considered dumping an animal?
*The vet body scored the horses and everyone’s opinion of right or wrong is based on pics. You cannot really BS a horse without putting your hands on it as true BS requires you to feel the muscle tone in the neck area. You are looking at the ass end of a horse with hips and a tail head showing. I know of a mare who had a broken tail and pelvic bone that looked like that in the rear but damn she had a nice barrel and chest on her.
I too am not defending this woman in this case. But, I do think that if we want to see a decrease, as you will never end animal neglect (we can’t stop it in humans so who is looking through rose colored spectacles thinking it will cease to exist in horses?), then we must as a group move into an education vs persecution mind set. Allow the law to do their job and learn to offer solutions and advice. Or step up to the plate and offer to take over the care, custody, and control of the horses in this case and the financial responsibility of such.
You may find yourself in a very similar position and not everyone makes the hard choices in life.
I think you’re missing the point of this blog. It’s supposed to be a place to rant, snark, and otherwise blow off steam. Education happens too, but that’s not the only purpose here. Never has been.
If someone wants to complain that we don’t discuss how to rehab horses or how to deal with euthanasia questions, without first taking the time to do a little reading and find that we actually *do* deal with this stuff, no, I’m not inclined to dig up links to prove otherwise. Especially when they’re not really asking for info – just complaining that we aren’t having the discussion that *they* think we should be having. It’s rude.
“I too am not defending this woman in this case”
Really?? Because it sounds a lot like you’re trying to make excuses for this sort of behavior.
And you know what? Media exposure and public outrage is often a lot MORE effective to fight cruelty and neglect than doing educational posts.
“You may find yourself in a very similar position and not everyone makes the hard choices in life. ”
Actually, I won’t. I’m not stupid enough to let my horse’s become that starved (You … make…. me …… laugh…. A possible broken pelvis? In TWO mares?) before seeking help.
She took two old, emaciated mares to a place after dark, and split for a show the next day? A vet certifies that they are in fact starved, not sick? This chick has been in the horse business, at an upper level, for literally DECADES.
Your solution is to sing “Kumbya” and try to educate someone who clearly, absolutely, without a doubt should know better?
These cases haven’t been a matter of not knowing. I’ve been to properties where the owners honestly didn’t know or understand (“You mean they aren’t supposed to look like milk cows?”). When you have been in the industry for years, you don’t need education. You need your ass beat until you realize that not only is there a standard for treatment of fellow beings, animal or human, but that the standard is not optional. We don’t starve animals, or people, because our show schedule is too busy to allow us to properly care for them.
Gwen S. is not necessarily an affluent person, but she damn well ought to have known better. And she ABSOLUTELY knew what she was doing when she shipped the horses to an unsuspecting father who wanted a horse for his daughter. She shipped them to arrive after dark and with blankets on. In the summertime, in Sonoma County.
Rumor has it that Gwen has problems with drugs, has monetary problems, and is most likely mentally deficient in some regard. But NONE of that is an excuse!!!
And I for one HAVE stepped up to help these mares! Betsy is doing yeomans work in rehabbing these horses. She was up around the clock, feeding small amounts every four hours as is the protocol per UC Davis on bringing a horse back from the brink of death by starvation. I sent Betsy a check for $200 for the care and rehabilitaion of Valerie (the bay horse in the most dire straits). I am putting my money where my mouth is. But you better believe that I appreciate everyone getting the word out there about Gwen because there is no corner of hell hot enough for this broad. Hit her where it counts, and where she will get the message.
I want her name dragged through the mud and I don’t want any more animals in her care ever again! I am heartened by some of the comments here because some of you people get it!! Old blonebelgian does NOT get it. Gwen needs to seriously be taught a lesson by being convicted in the court of public opinion. She had SOOO many options when it came to these mares, and she let this happen to them. For SHAME.
Please contact Betsy Bueno if you would like to help. You can e-mail her at betsybueno@aol.com, and she will give you her address to send a check. I dont think she has a PayPal account, but PLEASE help if you can! I mailed a check to her, and if you can, I encourage you to do the same. The donation is tax-deductible.
If you are in Nor Cal and are anywhere near Santa Rosa, please come out and visit LHAS rescue and meet Betsy! She’s a wonderful person & a lot of fun and can always use help. Betsy used to be police officer and specializes in cases involving criminal abuse and neglect. She has taken horses that have been seized by Animal Control in Contra Costa and Sonoma Counties.
Bless you all for helping and getting the word out! Gwen needs to be taken down. I am most definitely a misanthrope–I love all animals; humans, not so much. Espcially humans such as Gwen. Am I sociopathic for wanting her to be crucified? Who knows, but I have personally seen these horses, and if you had, you would agree.
Signed,
Ms Anthrope
completely off topic…….has anyone else seen the story from the Boise, Idaho paper “The Spokesman-Review” (September 22, 2011) about the Glacier National Park area tourist ride, Wrangler Erin Bolster for Swan Mountain Outfitters…rescues boy from grizzlie. (*got* to get another cup of coffee…my spelling is horrible this morning.)
She (Erin Bolster) and her lead horse, “Tonk” a Percheron x QH chased off a 700-750 poound grizzlie with three charges while rescuing an 8 year old boy who’s horse had spooked and run from an encounter with the bear.
There is a picture of Tonk and Erin beside the article. The body of a Perche and obviously the soul of a good cutting horse. Bravo to them!
ngler, huge horse save boy from charging grizzly …
http://www.spokesman.com/…/gutsy-wrangler-huge-horse-save-boy-from...
4 days ago – Grizzlies are high profile this year. A lingering winter and late berry crop kept bears in proximity to humans longer than normal, perhaps …
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I don’t blame the bear for running. That horse is *frigging huge*!
Your link isn’t quite working, try this one: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/18/gutsy-wrangler-huge-horse-save-boy-from-charging/
That is an awesome story. I’ve heard that a good lead horse (the front two of a team pulling a wagon) should be willing to walk up and over a car if the driver asks them to. Tonk obviously got that part of his draft heritage plus some.
This woman knew exactly what she was doing. Although she could not be bothered to properly feed and care for these horses, she immediately acted to move them in the middle of the night when faced with criminal prosecution. Most of us do understand that old horses are often difficult to maintain and require special care. Decent people make that effort. An affluent person riding at this level has no excuse whatsoever.
While I support educating horse owners in all areas to assist the horse to have a better quality of life there are times when education is not the issue and I firmly believe that this is one of those times.
Like countless “Professionals” before her, and undoubtedly there will be many more after her, Gwen S. committed a grievous sin in the eyes of the horse world. No reason, story, or excuse will exonerate her from this epic failure.
If substance abuse has brought this once exceptional rider/trainer to this point then that is a crying shame but that has nothing to do with educating people about equine health care.
Those mares are in a shameful state because Gwen S. made choices that did not make ALL the horses under her care her absolute first priority.
THAT has nothing to do with education.
Finally I managed to have proper look at this blog, since the format has been looking all kids of weird the last couple of days.
So I can finally get this out of my chest: There is no punishment fit for this horrible crime! She deserves to be starved to death, the way she has allowed her former horses to starve! But since we have to abide but the rules of the “civilized” world, I would be happy to see her do some real jail time. I doubt that’s ever going to happen, but I can at least hope that she will become a pariah in the horse community all over the world. She was a former Olympic medalist, for fucks sake!
An while we’re discussing things that make me sick to my stomach, I think this article is deserving of being featured in this blog as well:
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/news/2009/09/cruelest_horse_show_091709.html
“The USDA only has funding to send inspectors to 7 percent of all Tennessee Walking Horse shows nationwide. It is clear that more funding is needed to fully enforce the federal Horse Protection Act—and end cruel horse soring once and for all.”
Ah…. no. You want a solution? Force TWHBEA to release the entire breeding database to NWHA, and simply close down the TWHBEA. No more big lick. No more Celebration. No more need for tax dollars to fund inspections of horses who frankly are abused regardless of any agents or soring. Let’s face it, it takes a special sort of warped to get off on watching horses on stilts try valiantly to stay on their feet without blowing their hocks and stifles.
Take a good look at The Voice magazine put out by the TWHBEA. You can actually see the wrap marks on the big lick horses in the pictures. Sometimes you can see the roughed up or damaged areas of the pasterns. You don’t fix that with government supervision. You simply shut it down, tell them it’s over, and remove big lick entirely as an option. At least it will buy us a few years before they figure out how to screw this amazing breed in a different way.
Mugly –
The book is called The Sociopath Next Door. By Martha Stout – Broadway Books (2005) – Hardback – 241 pages – ISBN 076791581X
Here’t the basic summary of the book……
Who is the devil you know? Is it your lying, cheating ex-husband?Your sadistic high school gym teacher?Your boss who loves to humiliate people in meetings?The colleague who stole your idea and passed it off as her own?In the pages of The Sociopath Next Door, you will realize that your ex was not just misunderstood. He’s a sociopath. And your boss, teacher, and colleague? They may be sociopaths too.We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but in The Sociopath Next Door, Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people—one in twenty-five—has an often undetected mental disorder….
Gwen Stockebrand is a well-respected equestrian in Sonoma and Marin counties, as well as both a national and international figure. In 2010, in recognition of her contribution to advancing the discipline of Dressage, she was inducted by the Sonoma County Horse Counsel into the Equus Hall of Fame.
It therefore saddens me to read the slanderous distortions about her on this thread. It is unfortunate that the horse community continues to disseminate this misinformation without considering either its source or accuracy. Clearly, the manner in which it was originally conveyed was unprofessional and petty.
In fact, the mare in question is more than 35 years old, was never one her event horses, and–contrary to what has been said– been well cared for. All this is reflected in the fact that no formal charges have been made.
I am ashamed for those who have participated in this malicious attempt to destroy the reputation of one of our most renowned and gifted equestrians. It is a testimony to how brutal some in the horse community can be. The vitriol of what I read from those who should know Gwen better, or do not know her at all, is unworthy of you.
I urge you to stop perpetuating this slander.
I’m always amazed when someone comes onto this internet website, sent (obviously) by the alleged abuser, and proceeds to scream slander.
Slander is oral. Speech. Something transitory. (crickets chirp)
Yea… you can’t hear me. I see you are catching on. Or I hope you are.
Libel requires two things: Intentional lies, and intent to harm.
So while you are welcome (I assume, although perhaps Mugs has a different opinion) to come on here and defend the alleged abuser with what you believe to be the truth, we are equally welcome to come onto this blog and condemn, in writing, what we perceive to be the actions, as reported, of an alleged abuser who should know better.
But hey, if you want to go to a lawyer, and start asking for warrants to track the identities of random Internet lurkers so that you can spend tens of thousands of dollars on a libel suit, it IS your money and your right. Just don’t take it personally if we laugh at you for it.
Every derelict dirt bag, from OJ Simpson to Casey Anthony, has his/her apologists.
I see that Gwen is no exception.
It should not be difficult to verify the allegations made in the article– the vets who examined the horses and found their condition to be the result of starvation, the people who received said horses in appalling condition, the rescue involved in their rehabilitation, those who reported Gwen a year ago, and so on. I find it difficult to believe that all this has been made up out of whole cloth.
Snarky? No, this blog is the re-incarnation of the Salem Witch Hunts, it is mean and inhumane. The participants are downright frightening in their callously unfounded and irrational ignorance and feigned intimate knowledge of the accused…and, I suspect I thought of some of you as friends. I am worried for your characters (not to mention your karmas). Shame on all of you!
Do you really believe one is guilty until proven innocent? I thought that was un-American but I guess it’s the new way…and cyberspace certainly enables old foibles to be instantly reborn in a most careless and detrimental mode. (“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes”, as Mark Twain is attributed with saying). Do you realize what you’ve become? What you’ve done here? It is criminal. Take a break from your catty assumptions suppressed jealousies, your ancient cruel idea of stoning people and wringing necks and your other delusional vigilante actions and, once again, find reason and right and let the processes of justice decide the truth. Then take a stand.
I hope you all have good lawyers. Character assassination through defamation and libel that results in one losing their livelihood can be costly to the perpetrators of such crime…and should be.
I do know Gwen well (over 30yrs) and I know and have known a number of professional competitors and trainers. Gwen is the best. I wish to report that In all the time I’ve watched her work, everything she has done has been for the benefit & good of the horse. She is brilliant and an exceedingly kind human being. Her talent is beyond match. Her heart is huge! I will always be proud to say Gwen is a friend. I thank God for the good fortune of having her wisdom and patience in my life. My horses have benefitted greatly…as have I. The person assailed on this blog bears no resemblance to Gwen.
Think about your actions from here on for “The history of our race, and each individual’s experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.” (Mark Twain, “Advice to Youth Speech, 1882)
Random question: Do you just feel smarter when you string big words together, or is there really such a thing as rational ignorance?
Anyway, it’s nice that she drummed up some people to support her, or came on here herself. I’ll be really honest, I’m probably not going to call my lawyer in response to your thinly veiled threats against my Karma. If you are innocent, then you will probably pretty quickly be proven innocent. Otherwise, I imagine your lawyers will have more important things to occupy their time than chasing down Internet lurkers.
Oh, one last comment, since you love Mr. Clemens so much. He once told a student, “If you ever see an adjective, kill it.”
Do take his advice to heart.
That’s laying it on kinda thick there, “MoralMare”.
This woman allows a horse in her care starve almost to DEATH and you want to cannonize her for sainthood?
Talk to Sonoma County Animal Care and Control before you do that.
Horses are abused every single day. That isn’t unusual. But what *is* unusual is when the abuser is a former world-class equestrienne. Someone we *ought* to be able to look up to and admire. That is what is so apalling about this situation.
As I said, even the most derelict have their apologists, so it doesn’t surprise me that you are so haughty and act as though this woman is so innocent.
The truth will out.
And it is not libel if it is the truth. Nice try, though.
You’ve proven it, again, this blog is way too quick to judge. It is nothing more than a cyber-kangaroo court*. It does not know the truth, therefore, it cannot be relied on for truth.
With that in mind, I shall not waste anymore of my time.
Happier trails to you.
Has anyone bothered to verify the facts of this story? I have seen several reports that this “rescue” has used similar stories before to exhort money and that Gwen was a previous owner of the horses but the current owner who neglected them is someone else. While I am all about smacking it to folks who do wrong by animals, I’d make sure you have the right person before going all raging mob. Just because someone writes something on the internet does not make it automatically true — check some facts!!!
There’s a new link on the Chronicle forums: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322426&highlight=stockebrand that tells quite a different story from the original. I don’t know if Gwen is guilty of this charge or not, but I sure havn’t seen anything online that proves it either way.
This is an unsubstantiated article. I thought everyone was presumed innocent until proven guilty. This article is sensational/attention seeking/ self promoting – not democratic American per our judicial system. How horrible that a group of unprofessional people can so easily destroy someone’s reputation. Gwen took my off track racehorse and entirely rehabilitated her. Every other trainer was afraid of this horse and would not ride her. The horse was a 4 year track veteran. A winner w/endless body pains, attitude, biting,saddle/bit problems, etc. Others had recommended euthenasia, and/or severe training techniques or nothing. Gwen worked calmly and daily w/kindness and old age European dressage techniques for maybe 6 months. Because of her care and wisdom my mare has been literally reconstructed. Her body is loose and relaxed. She gained at least 75 lbs. She listens and wants to please. She is doing dressage and trail in fact loves the ocean, creeks, forests, and last weekend rode Bodega Bay alone – has done this several times with me – always happy. Gwen saved her life.
Gwen is a legend Sonoma County does NOT want to loose. It’s a tragedy that someone with a “rescue” site and computer can so readily destroy such a true and long time giver to horses. Reader beware least it happen to you as it has to Gwen.
I just contacted the Sonoma County DA’s office and asked if charges were filed against Gwen for animal cruelty or neglect, as was stated in some of the articles online. A woman named Chris Allen called back and left me a message that no, there were no such charges.
Fugly – I am disappointed that you would propagate this story with no research into the facts.
From “Move Over Keith”
“California dressage trainer Gwen Stockebrand is being investigated by Sonoma County Animal Control for allegedly neglecting two of her horses.”
Be- I am did appointed you can’t read.
Below are two examples of what I was referring to by “some of the articles online.” I’m not trying to insult you or anyone else, just interested in finding some facts.
http://snarkyrider.wordpress.com/tag/gwen-stockebrand/
For the time being, the case has been handed over to the DA to file charges where, under California law, what Gwen is being accused of is a felony and she could face jail time.
http://www.examiner.com/horses-in-san-francisco/well-known-local-horse-trainer-formally-charged-with-animal-cruelty-and-neglect
Well known local horse trainer formally charged with animal cruelty and neglect