Sheesh
Sep 17 2011
When I start a young horse one of the first things they learn is to stand tied.
Coming from the western side of the road it is considered a vital part of their training. Standing tied teaches patience, how to handle a rope and to give to pressure without me having to play seven or eight games with them. They learn to step their hip away from me as I move around them and to accept restraint. It also keeps them where I need them to be.
When my colts first join my line up they stand tied until they are quiet and relaxed. I then untie them and put them up.
As time goes on they will stand tied as long as I need them to, often for five or six hours. They are tied as I ride through my line and are tied again after they are ridden. When I change my lineup they are put away, unless they are being fractious, then they will remain tied until they are quiet or it’s the end of the day, whichever comes first. My rope length is short enough to prevent them from getting a foot over it or to reach the horse next to them.
When I go to a day show my horses stay tied to the trailer. My rope length is just long enough for them to reach the ground to pick up hay they have dropped from their hay bag. The water buckets hang from safety hangers on the side of the trailer.
While I was in Wyoming there was a mix-up on my stall rental at the fairgrounds. I chose to keep them at my friends house tied to their trees rather then in open pens next to horses who had come in that day for a sale.
I didn’t feel comfortable exposing them to horses with histories I didn’t know and there was no shelter. Under the trees they had a wind-break, a thick canopy of branches and no snotty noses to touch.
They were tied high to branches over their heads with appropriate quick release knots. Their hay bags were tied in a like manner. They could reach their water buckets to drink or kick over as they pleased. The water was refilled every forty-five minutes or so when I came to check them.
They were ridden at the fairgrounds the day I arrived, the day I was visiting and the morning I left for Montana. I rode them in an appropriate manner, in an arena away from the sale horses and allowed them a responsible warm up and cool down before I tied them back to the tree.
No horses bled, colicked or died during the duration of my trip.
Now I’m going elsewhere to write about the parts of my trip where I was actually learning and observing. I’ll be back to share what I originally felt was worth your time in a day or two.
84 comments to “Sheesh”
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Tying is an important thing that every horse needs to know. I’ve seen that people have a strong reaction about tying horses for extended periods of time. I don’t see way. I’ve never seen a horse suffering for being tied more time. Here in my country, Romania, it’s a common practice to have standing stalls so the horses can be tied 24 hours or even more if the weather is horrible outside. Sure, this is not something great, or good for the horses but they won’t die because of it, they won’t suffer. They can lay down if they need to and if they cought their leg on the rope they will stand calm there waiting for someone to come or they will learn how to untangle themselves. So I don’t see nothing wrong about tying your horses for a couple of hours. I have more problems with the ones that say that their horses don’t know how to stand tied. How on earth to have a horse that won’t stand tied. It’s necessary even if you have a big pasture and your horses are left outside all the time. Maybe you need to tie your horse to clean a wound, to trim his hooves or simply to groom him. Maybe you need to put the saddle on and then you realize that you have something to do in the house and you should tie him for that period of time. I can’t imagine how difficult it will be to have a horse that won’t stand tied for whatever period of time. We have even a colt that will stand tied all the day if you want to.
You are my kind of equestrian. Teaching a horse to accept the realities of his/her life is much kinder than only teaching them my ideals, or anybody elses.
Here in my neck of woods we have people that let their horses tied on the fields. Here it’s uncommon in some parts of the country to have pastures so they let their horses tied somewhere, with a 32 ‘ rope attached to their halter. And they do just fine, they learn how to untangle their legs, how to not step on the rope and so on. As I said, it’s not ideal, I don’t like that practice but at least that horses can graze, they are not left in their standing stalls all day. If it’s dangerous? it can be but I never heard of a case where the horse has injured himself because of this practice. I don’t say that it isn’t possible but personally I don’t heard of an actual case where this thing happened.
I am glad to see that in other parts of the world people are treating their horses better than this, this is absolutely great, we have people like this too. But on the other hand we don’t have to exaggerate. They won’t die if they are tied, they will be just fine, they won’t strangle themselves if you let them on their own for some time. You need to take some precautions obviously, we watch our horses very carefully when we teach them to tie and they do just fine. I’ve never ever seen a horse that won’t stand tied.
A friend of mine taught her horses to tie out like that as well, on a long lunge line. Never a problem and the horses or pony would even roll.
All of our horses learn to stand tied as well and all will stand tied to the trailer all day at a show. Granted they are being ridden to warm up and in their classes, but if we take a young horse for a halter class, they will stand the rest of the day. Never a colic, never a problem. I don’t tie them long enough to pick up dropped hay, but they always have access to hay and water. Standing tied is a necessary skill in my mind, not one I am willing to comprimise on. If I am here alone, and I need to vet that horse, I NEED them to stand quietly tied.
I have found the more comfortable a horse is with ropes, and items around their feet the less likely they are to panic should they get caught in a fence or something because they have learned to stand still and wait. My husband had a horse once get tangled in a piece of hogwire fencing that had been carried down the creek in a very recent heavy rain. It ended up in the tall grass along the creeks edge and we didn’t see it. Morning chores he was fine. During chores that evening, we noticed the horse wasn’t coming in, and went to check on him only to find both feet hobbled by this hunk of fencing. He stood perfectly still while the wire cutters were retreived and used. Then he continued to stand while we checked him over. Not a scratch, a swelling, nothing. We know he must have been there a good portion of the day by the pile that was behind him. We had never hobbled him, but he had experience with ropes and I think that made the difference. Had he struggled, it would have been horrible.
We did have a rescue horse once that would completely panic when he hit the end of the rope when tied. He was dangerous about it, to both himself and those around him. He was taught to ground tie. By the time we rehomed him to a young man looking for a roping horse, drop the rope and he would stand until you came to get him or called him. I don’t know what had happened in his past to create such a violent reaction to tying, and though you couldn’t tie him to the trailer, you tie him at the trailer just by dropping that rope.
Yes, exactly. We had one a horse that was shod and tied near a fence, a chain link fence. He caught his shoe in a piece of wire from that fence but he stood there without even moving. When I went to him I didn’t realized that he has his shoe caught in the fence and I was trying to move him and he didn’t move a leg so I watched closely and saw the problem. So I really think that tying a horse is very important. He was used to not being able to move freely so he just stood there without fighting. For him it wasn’t really important that he is tied from him halter, leg, neck or whatever.
Same thing for my mare, feeder told me she wouldn’t come over when he tossed dinner, she had a new neighbor she did’t like and had her shoe stuck in the fencing. She was standing there 3 legged when he went by with the hay wagon and never said a word til he noticed she didn’t come “to the table”. She was green broke when I got her and never knew if she was hobbled trained, but she knew how to yield to pressure even if she was frightened.
A shout out from a sort-of neighbor — I grew up and learned to ride in Bulgaria in the 80s, so I know exactly what you mean about different kinds of standards. We used to make our own grooming kit out of rubber door mats (which could be cut into a curry comb) and those mini-brooms they sell at markets. You do the best you can with what’s available and you’ll find your horses will appreciate you just as much. They don’t really notice whether their blanket is brand-name or not.
Mugs, you’re on the right track with tying in my eyes. I’ve always taught my babies to tie as soon as they understand how to release tension when I’m leading them. I pull, they come forward. I will tie the dam with the foal tied next to her, higher than its withers, with a quick release knot. This is usually around the age of 4 weeks. My horses stand tied without fretting no matter where we are. I’ve never had an issue of pulling back causing damage – not to say the occasional horse hasn’t had a bit of a panic attack in a 1st time situation but it lasts 2 seconds and they revert back to what they’ve been taught – I can’t break free, I’ve never been injured and I can still move my feet if I desperately feel the need. Once they’re older I go a step further and teach them not to panic when they’re grazing with a halter and lead. I’d much rather have them figure out how to release tension with my presence than having one get loose in a high stress environment, step on the rope and freak out.
Those of us with horns on our saddles seem to accept tying as an everyday occurrence. I haven’t been able to figure out why tying is typically unacceptable in many for hunter/jumper/dressage barns.
I’ve been an English rider all my life, mostly dressage, but with a lot of friends and acquaintances who are hunter/jumper focused, and I’ve yet to see an English horse that doesn’t tie. My last mare before I got Frost would literally have stood all day long, sleeping and waiting, if necessary, though there was never a need for it.. and she was ridden hunt seat primarily.
My father in law does have a lovely reining mare that stopped tying reliably some time back though, so I suppose I can theorize fairly that Western horses don’t tie, right? (For the record, I don’t think Western horses don’t tie. Just sort of amused at the idea that English horses mystically never need to learn a basic handling skill because they have a different saddle.)
Not sure what to tell you there except maybe that anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
I had a feeling someone would misunderstand and get knotted nickers thinking I’m bashing a riding style. Not at all true. I’m basing my comments on what I’ve seen, not what my riding preference is. I’ve seen so many “English” barns with grooms holding horses for everything from shoeing, tacking, clipping, mounting, blanketing…. I’d still be willing to bet that there aren’t more than a handful of Warmblood, TB, Sporthorse breeders teaching babies to tie just for the sake of the lesson. The Open shows seem to have an even balance of disciplines tied to trailers between classes. It’s taboo at race tracks. I just don’t get why all horses aren’t taught to tie at a young age. It isn’t a matter of the horse’s capability to learn, it’s the mindset of the trainers and handlers. I have a friend with a 5 yr old Arab that has never been taught to tie and is tranq’d for clipping. It’s barn etiquette not to tie any of the horses….not inability of the horse or the breed or the saddle. I guess if you think that a horse won’t tie, it never will.
I assure you, my knickers are far from knotted, and I’m not upset. On the contrary, it sort of made me chuckle. I’ve just never known any English horses that didn’t tie, and most of the horses I’ve known and owned personally were English, or dual trained. A lot of barns overseas have tie stalls still, rather than boxes, and I doubt many of those frequently and quietly tied horses are getting a western saddle put on them when they come out of being tied to rings in the wall for hours.
There are a few really big money hunter/jumper barns here, and I’m sure you’d see those expensive, fat, spoiled horses being held, but I’d venture to doubt that it’s necessarily because they -don’t- tie so much as it is that their spoiled, expensive riders don’t know how to properly tie a horse-friendly knot and expect some underpaid stablehand to hold their precious darling for them while they mount and dismount. Or because the horse is so overgrained that it’s practically shaking with nervous energy. (I see a lot of those at western shows too, for the record… mostly halter horses, fat and glossy and spastic.)
You made an anecdotal statement, so I returned with one of my own, that I’d known several Western horses who didn’t tie, so they must all not tie. My statement was equally as silly, which was sort of the point.
Bad trainers and owners who don’t teach their horses to tie aren’t confined to any one discipline (Though perhaps racing is the exception to that rule, because I agree, you don’t see them tying.. but most of the retired TBs I’ve handled in the past tied fine, so somewhere in there they did learn it.), unless being bad at teaching basics counts as a discipline.
I’m from the English side of the fence and haven’t encountered horses that won’t tie, but I have a theory about some barns. I only boarded at one like that for a very short period of time, then quickly returned to the slightly shabby, but professional and utilitarian stables I prefer, where people take their dressage horse or show hunter out for a 5 hour trail ride and nobody faints in shock.
Many of the horses currently in those other kinds of hunter/jumper barns you may be thinking of (yes, I am cheerfully generalizing) are expensive, overfed, underworked and borderline neglected. Many don’t get decent turnout and haven’t left the arena or seen the world outside other than at a show for months, maybe years. I think the rarefied atmosphere makes them a little crazy, as do the people who tend to ride, but not spend sufficient time on groundwork. Maybe they don’t get enough sensory stimulation, so they focus on every little phobia and issue that they develop to keep themselves busy and get over-reactive.
My H/J gelding is not overfed, is not underworked, frequently works outside of the arena and is turned out all day, every day (weather permitting). So is every other horse where I board at.
He also ties like a pro.
Not all of us H/J riders like the pig fat horses that seem to be in style, and we don’t treat our horses like glass either.
Oh, I know that and you know that … but there’s 3 horses at the barn I ride right now that are underused and getting scary and I get so annoyed at watching their owners making excuses and getting progressively more intimidated and less involved. Among them: 14 year old girl who is a heavy-handed rider, whose parents have bought her an expensive neurotic Thoroughbred that is quickly turning into a monster and was apparently a decently successful horse in his past life. He’s now sunk to being hand-walked or lunged for exercise, kept apart from the other horses, never tied, and handled about once a week. I get sad every time I see him.
It has nothing to do with what saddle we plunk on their back, it’s about the time investment people are willing to make in keeping a horse healthy, sane and happy. Your horse is lucky to have you, but there’s many out there in H/J, in dressage, and in the saddle-horned world that aren’t.
Hey Fennic! Yeah, just how do those obese H/J types sail over fences anyway? Around here, you do see the lesson barns teaching their kids to tie with a break away string. It always made me think they were teaching those horses that they could break free when ever they wanted. Well, to each his own.
IF tying is bad I am an evil evil person. When doing wilderness hunts, and the summer trail rides the horses are tied. You can’t pack in corral panels into the wilderness. Most of the ground is to rocky for step in tposts, and portable electic fence.
On our summer string we highlined. Our horses were highlined ALL summer. They stood tied to hitching posts with hay and water between rides during the day, and over half were highlined at night, the other half got turn out if a couple wood corrals we built.
In the 6 years I did the rides we never had a horse colic or die, become deformed, permanently lame, or metally scarred.
The only bad accident we ever had that resulted from tying, was when my then fiance (really nice guy but clueless) got back from a ride, and tied his horse TO the hunting tent, WITH the reins…… (big canvas tent with metal frame) He came out of tent, tent flap flew, horse freaked, pulled back, tent parts went everywere, horse went running with part of frame whacking him.
Got the horse caught, no injuries other than a couple small scrapes, but that could have been very very bad. Fiance got is ass chewed from one side to the other, we later broke up. I can only handle so much stupid.
So funny! I just blogged about this very same thing…….after a conversation with an older gentleman who couldn’t believe that my filly would stand tied for hours without a fuss.
http://midtnequine.blogspot.com
“No horses bled, colicked or died during the duration of my trip”
Sheesh already. That’s all I need to know. Really. I don’t need a bunch of other explanations. I think I know enough about you to put my horse in your hands, and that’s a really big compliment.
If I thought you were like some of the asshats I’ve heard about, who train their horses to tie by tying them up somewhere and beating them until they stop moving, that would be a big headline.
When I first read your roadtrip story and saw the picks of the tied horses, I though, what a lovely spot. Shady, close for observation. Now that you explain it makes even more sense.
Years ago I also didn’t get the tying for long periods, why? Because I only had the one horse to deal with and I didn’t have a reason to keep her tied for any longer than it took her to dry after a bath. She would be turned out when I cleaned and I would always be close by when grooming or farrier work. At a busy boarding barn even tie posts are waited on during a weekend. The one time she did freak out and pulled back I just yelled for her to stop it and threw a brush at her butt to make her go forward. It was over in 2 seconds.
But after many years of observation and experience I can see it as a valuable tool. Once while camping the paddocks had no shade so I just tied her up to a post, for Hours, in the cool.
I don’t think you should have to explain yourself. Some people have pedal cushions for brains which don’t get enough circulation and are always on the verge of colic because of their bilious complaints.
Also LOVED the video.
I agree teaching a horse to tie & stand patiently is a vital part of the training process.
My own are all trained to stand tied as long as I need them to be, although I don’t like tying to trailers, since I’ve seen too many nasty accidents in my day.
My own experience with ones not taught to tie …. I had the misfortune of offering to help get 2 youngsters out of a flood situation. Never been tied. Never been in a trailer. Never been away from home. Hot headed types. What a nightmare. Especially when I’m used to mine, who practically load themselves.
Decided to haul them one at a time loose in the trailer (since they didn’t tie). Couldn’t haul them both, since once one was loose in there, I couldn’t get the other in.
Well, once I got to the other end …. nothing is quite as fun as then trying to CATCH a freaked out, hot headed, squirmy basketcase that is loose inside the trailer. Its just dangerous for everyone involved & really a miracle no one got hurt.
After that ridiculous experience, I concluded that teaching a horse to tie was one of the single most important basics a horse should be taught. When its young. BEFORE an emergency situation arises.
I ride sans horns and agree with you completely. My trainer teaches young horses to stand tied for hours (mine included) in the cross ties, trailer, wash rack and stalls. Much like damnedEvans said, horses need to learn to stand tied quiet for their own safety. Whether it be at a day show, or for the farrier or vet or just getting tacked up. I’ve yet to see a horse who has been taught to stand tied hurt themselves. Now on the other hand I’ve seen terrible accidents with horses who’ve not been taught this. At my barn I witness a young TB who had not been taught to tie (not one of my trainers students) freak out at the wash rack, pull back and subsequently flip. The flip proved fatal as the horse broke her neck.
Having your horse tied safely and quietly is a far cry from the abusive tying and beating some of the “big name trainers” do. Oh and hell yeah I would tie my horse to a tree before I put her in with horses who were in for the day. Out here in California we are still dealing with the EHV-1 virus. New cases keep popping up. There was a new outbreak in our County last month and once again our barn is on lock down.
Sorry to hear you have EHV-1 in your area. We had that a few years back nearby and there were several neurological cases. Scary stuff. Wish you well avoiding it.
It’s sad to hear that horses get injured or killed by flipping over backwards. It’s one of those things that’s hard to file away under ‘extremely rare’ and go back to tying. I hope I never see that happen. I’ve taught adult horses to tie but it takes a lot longer as their flight or fight instinct is a lot stronger. One thing I’m adamant about is that the halter and lead have to be strong enough that the horse cannot break them. Hardware’s always the first to go and it doesn’t take much to break a snap. When a horse is pulling like a freight train and a snap breaks, he’s going over and that’s when it gets dangerous. I’ve used 2 halters and 2 leads to secure a problem horse as it’s nearly impossible for a horse to flip over at all when it’s tied securely, wither height or higher. There are a lot of steps to take before a horse is tied to help him realize how to release himself from pressure and those lessons are paramount for an insecure horse.
There was one accident I witnessed involving a horse that was never taught to tie. She was a mare about 20 years old. The barn owner (who rarely ever handled the horses – for good reason) took the mare into the wash rack to give her a bath. She tied her to something, and the mare freaked out. She reared up and hit her head on the light fixture that the BO had installed directly over the center of the wash rack. The light tubes shattered, sending glass shards flying all over the place. The mare then fell to the ground but had her lead rope wrapped around hose arm going to the hot water tank. The water tank was ripped off the wall and part of the stall wall was also torn down. The horse and barn owner eventually emerged from the wash stall covered with her own blood. She has been cut up quite badly by falling glass. The horse had some minor cuts on its legs from falling, but was not seriously injured. The wash rack was a total loss.
I was really surprised when I logged on and saw that no one had blasted you for tying overnight. At one point, I was completely bombed for saying I saw nothing wrong with daily worked cart horses in cities living in proper tie stalls and that as a kid in 4-H we much prefered the week-long event when we had the tie barn as the stalls were much easier to clean. While I have seen some real disasters with old time cowboys bringing in the unbroke two year olds, tying them all to the wall then doing such things as rolling tires at them, flapping tarps, and shooting guns, I have been known to just tie a horse to a tree (safely) and leave it for a couple of days to enforce patience. Yup, even with no water or hay unless I give it to them. Sometimes saddled, if the saddle seems to be a problem for a colt. Never had one majorly hurt (I don’t count a couple of scrapes from the tree–they learn pretty quick) or have any lasting issues except patience, ease of tying, and learning that I can control food and water and freedom. AND that standing patiently tied is actually a repreive from hard work and is a great time to sleep.
Well… just because anecdotally you haven’t had health problems as a result doesn’t mean it’s a good practice which doesn’t cause health problems. It does, and giving one person’s anecdotal experience as evidence that it’s fine is like saying, “But I had unprotected sex dozens of times and never caught anything!”
Going for a long car or airplane ride.. sitting for HOURS a day at an office job (so you can afford things like hay for the horses) is not good for people, either. We do it though, because we HAVE to, to pay the bills, to get where we need to be, to read the fhotd blog, we sit, still, and it is not good for our circulation.
We help reduce the risk by exercising at lunch, riding a bike to work, going for hikes on the weekends, etc.
Hell, the sun isn’t good for our skin, either, but it sure feels good on the first sunny, warm day of spring!
Why do you think that tying a horse makes it unable to move? The horses can still move around, just in a smaller area, and it is NOT harmful to them, in any way to spend a few weeks of their life’s a year tied during their idle time when on trail rides, at shows, etc. PERIOD.
If Mugly said, well, the mortgage payment is due again, and I just can’t afford it, so I’m moving to the RV park, but they said I could tie the horses to fence, so they will be fine, then I could see you going off about it. Most of the time, Mugly’s horses are out being horses when they aren’t working. The few weeks, weekends, whatever that horses spend tied or in small stalls while not being ridden at events does not hurt them.
Its like the people who say horses shouldn’t be kept in box stalls. I will be the first to say that the healthiest place for any horse is in a pasture in a herd situation (assuming the horse does not have any health issue that would make that unhealthy for the particular horse). What about the horses owned by people who cannot provide that? What should they do? Provide as much turnout and exercise as they can? But that is not good enough for some people.
My question is if you could ask the horse (I know you cannot) what would be say? Would Mugly’s horses say YES!! PLEASE TAKE US AWAY FROM THIS ABUSIVE LADY!!! SHE IS TRYING TO KILL US!?? Or would they take a look around, and say HELL NO! Sure, we wish we could have spent the night at an exotic horse spa with organic, herbal pastures and therapeutic mud baths, but we know what it is like out there for a horse, I am staying here, where my hooves are trimmed regularly, I get feed everyday on time, my water is cool and clear, and if I get hurt I get to see a vet?
And what about the horse in the box stall at the boarding barn, that gets the best care available (minus living in a stall)? Should its owner sell it because all they can provide is the box stall? ALL THOSE HORSES that are stalled part of the time or all of the time? SELL THEM???? Does ANYONE think that would be what is best for the horse?
I think it is a situation where we make do (and our horses make do) with the best we can provide. If the best you can provide is a clean, well bedding box stall, proper nutrition, vet and farrier care when needed, and nearly daily exercise, I am sure there are countless horses living in muddle holes, trying to survive on weeds, baking in the sun, with no water, or dirty water that would take that stalled life in a minute.
So Mugly’s horses spent a few nights tied to trees, in the shade, on someone’s soft lawn, munchie good quality hay and drinking fresh, cold water. and you are screaming about it. REALLY… You think Millie Montana would have LOVED to stand under those trees and drink that cool water and eat that hay????
Get some fing perspective people!!!!
Amen to that. There are so many horrible things that happen to horses. Standing tied while being properly cared for is not one of them.
Respectfully Alliecat, I see way more than ONE person’s anecdotal experiences here. If you feel that tying a horse is detrimental to it’s health, is it tying period, or is there a time limit. As a retired farrier, I can’t say that I could make any correlation between tying and hoof/leg problems. But, then again, that would be anecdotal, which you would not consider valid, correct? So, could you point me to any actual valid research that shows that tying one’s horse (in a similar situation and time frame as Mugly’s post) causes hoof/leg or other health problems. I am curious to see what the science says. Personally, I didn’t think anything of it when I read her original post, having tied horses for long periods while camping myself. I personally consider it an essential skill. But would be interested to see any valid research that might dispute it.
Mugly, I am enjoying your blog and educated, sane and balanced view.
In an English hunting stables I knew, if there were not enough loose boxes for all the horses, they could be stabled in a stall, using a headcollar with a long rope that ran through an iron ring about chest height on the front wall, ending in a wooden block. It gave the horses room to move a bit and to reach haynets and water and to lie down, while ensuring that the rope was taut enough that they didn’t get a leg over it. If a horse had got tangled up, there would have been enough play for it not to be a problem, but I never saw that happen.
We also used tethering, in order to graze animals in unfenced areas, for instance during lunch breaks. We used an iron stake hammered into the ground and a length of light chain about 25 feet long attached to a leather headcollar. The horses learnt very quickly to manage the tethering chains, and could unwind themselves or lift a hoof out of the way. I never saw an injury from this in about 2 decades, and the horses were able to relax and feed between working sessions. Provided a horse has learnt the system in a safe environment, is regularly checked and given access to water, tethering is a practical way of travelling with a horse or utlising new grazing areas.
Like others, I never saw a horse that wouldn’t stand tied. Even so, we always used quick-release knots attached to a break-away of baler twine which was attached to a safe tying point, and leather headcollars whenever possible. I am sure that there is no such thing as being too safety-conscious around horses. But safely tied to a tree while travelling is no more a problem than safely tied in any other circumstances.
I also tethered my mare occasionally. Old cowboy gave me a super long line with old hose split and covering the last several feet next to the snap. If they have a job and it is an off work moment, they’ll stay just about anywhere they feel comfortable, happy to not be working and if they can graze it’s a bonus. A confident, trained horse can figure out how to deal.
What a brilliant idea, using blocks to maintain the shorter length when the head is raised. I’ll have to try that. I imagine they have to be the right weight, so that the rope ‘retracts’ without pulling on the horse’s head all the time hard.
I know one horse who won’t stand tied…and has been managed successfully for years without tying. Apparently, although I’ve never seen it, her freakouts are both spectacular and dangerous.
Personally, I think the fact that she also has fused vertebrae in her neck and physically can’t arch it properly is definitely connected to this…I don’t know what happened, but the obvious guess is that at some point before her current owner got her (and this mare is high side of twenty, approaching thirty and semi-retired) some kind of accident happened while she was tied, causing the injury *and* the freakouts.
But that’s an exceptional situation. What annoys me is people who won’t teach ground tying, which seems to be…everyone who rides English. If you teach it right, it’s possible to get a horse to the point where if you get off, the horse will stop and stand automatically. It’s nice not to have to worry about your horse tearing off somewhere if you come off…
I know it’s all “personal experience” and what not, but not everyone who rides english has horses that won’t ground tie. There are quite a few English only riders who have taught there horses to ground tie out where I live. The best example being my best friend and her horse Moose. You don’t even have to drop that lead to the dirt for him to not move. If you aren’t holding onto it, he’s not moving. Period. Even with cookies or carrots in your hand, he’ll still just stand there and look pathetic rather than coming over and trying to snatch them from you.
By the same token, I’ve witnessed some amazing freak outs due to ground tying performed by horses who go Western and I’ve seen some amazing freak outs performed by horses that do both. Yadda yadda, my own personal experience here.
The point is is that tying is pretty much a needed skill and it’s not specific to one type of riding or another. There’s people that will have horses that won’t tie in either discipline just like there are people who will abuse horses in either discipline. Which I’m pretty sure is something we can all agree on..
Yeah, I have to agree. My English-only mare ground ties perfectly, and I don’t actually have to drop the reins or lead. If less English riders train their horses to ground tie I’d assume because less trail ride? And I don’t even know if I’d go that far, because I can’t believe I’m the only English saddle using trail rider (not that I do anything intense on trails).
I taught my pony to ground tie as a kid primarily so when I was riding in the arena on my own, I could park him and go set up cones for bending or whatever without needing help. It’s not JUST useful on the trails. (And I didn’t even know it was called anything…nobody else did it…I just knew I wanted to be able to tell that pony to stay and trust that he would. It took about two months of religiously putting him right back where I wanted him every time he moved…and that was it).
Haha, yes, that is why I taught my horse to ground tie too! So I could go pick up poop around the arena leaving her in the middle, set up cones, cavalletti, etc. I’ve just always heard is an important skill for people who ride out where there aren’t convenient things to tie up to, like in a meadow.
At the barn where my best friend boards, they all regularly have barn-wide trail riding trips, all with english saddles so…
I think it just depends on the area you’re in
I’ve ridden both English and Western, and I have to say, the horses in our Hunt are some of the absolute BEST about ground-tying (with the exception of greenies, of course, but they learn quickly lol).
We hunted in a very brushy area where keeping those nasty saw vines in check was an uphill battle. The hunters learned to associate “Stop/dismount” with “My feet are about to be unstuck, thank God”, and would stay wherever they were parked until we got back on. Not an ideal training method by any means, but it worked.
Great post about tying. I have to admit that I don’t read all the comments to most entries. When I was reading the last post with the rant about the insults, etc. I was thinking, “WTH is she talking about?” Did someone really get their panties in a bunch because you tied your horses to a tree?
Like your horses, all mine must learn to tie before anything else. They must also learn some basic, yet essential, skills like loading, picking up their feet, and leading with a small piece of rope (or even their mane) before they are ridden on the trail. You just never know when you’ll get into a situation or emergency and need the horse to behave appropriately. Your bridle could break during a ride, or you may have to evacuate quickly during a disaster. Likewise, horses need to learn to tie to just about anything in the event you don’t have a better option. I’ve tied my horse to the bumper of an old pickup truck when there was no other place to put him. He stood perfectly still and was never in danger of hurting himself or damaging the truck.
What happens if a horse won’t tie? They learn. We had two bitchy OTTB mares that refused to tie to the trailer. A few weeks later after a couple broken halters and lead ropes, both would tie to the trailer for hours without a fuss. Like anything else, I work with the horses using baby steps. I would untie each mare BEFORE she felt she had to panic and have a meltdown. Each day I’d leave her tied a little bit longer and move her friends a little farther away. Pretty soon she would stand by herself tied to the trailer; a passerby would never guess she’d ever have a problem.
There are going to be people who disagree with everything. (I should know, I live with one of them). It seems to be the new culture around here…prove everyone else wrong and argue with them. Take it all with a grain of salt and then go on doing what you know is important.
Ok, Part Deux, you can quit defending yourself now! LOL!
I agree!
One wonders how the horses of the Old West ever made it out alive without the help of The Angry Commentor. Or the ones at the turn of the century, for that matter.
LOLOLOL….I was thinking the same thing. And some hitched to wagons all day, waiting……to………work
When I first started to read todays post, I thought there was going to be some inciteful information about teaching a horse to tie, or perhaps another horrible death because some moron has not been able to teach their horse to tie, took him to some BNT, and the horse is now tragically dead. As I continued, I realized it was an explanation to a few people who must know a lot less than they believe you to know, and somehow believe that it is cruel and inhumane to tie a horse. I guess you just can’t escape that sort of thing… I wish I had more friends across the county with trees in their back yards that I could tie my horses to on a whim. Much safer tied to a tree then stabled next to a stranger, and at least they were never out of your sight. I hope you enjoyed your vacation
Right on Mugs. I worked at a reining trainer barn for a while, and the first thing that blew my mind ( which wasn’t hard coming from a fancy hunter jumper barn) was the fact that every single one of those horses, big- small, young-old, would damn well stand tied; end of argument,kaput. They’d be tied in the morning, get brushed and saddled then wait their turn, when they were done they were washed then tied to dry. Someone was being a dummy in the stall? Tied, vet or farrier coming? Tied. And while they were tied they were expected to stand quietly and keep their mouth and feet to themselves. These horses did everything tied, they were even tied in the indoor from a rope hanging from a ceiling, half those horses learned to do perfect turns of the forehand simply from pivoting around in a circle to watch a horse that was loping a circle around them.
Soon I began to expect this from my own horses, and I suddenly had this epiphany on how the quietness from something so simple transferred to my riding. Neither I or my horse went in the ring stressed after having a shoving match because Dumbdumb was bouncing off the walls/crossties, and I began to expect the same quietness from being tied was also the same quietness at our halt and walk, which lead to better upward transitions instead of having a scrambling speedy takeoff.
Also I never realised how utterly MADDENING it is now to have a horse that won’t stand tied
These attacks are completely ridiculous. My horses tie wherever I need them and for however long I decide to leave them there for. It’s one of the first things they learn, and absolutely one of the most important steps in the training process. Even with my colts, if I dismount and throw the rein over a rail, they’re in the same spot until I get back. It’s about teaching your horse respect, they respect the pressure, and they will respect you in the long run. My horses are practical and well behaved. They’re not spoiled, they know the difference between work and play. This is a vital step that so many miss, then wonder why they have the problems down the road. I can recognize immediately the horses who have been taught patience, and those that continue to walk over their handlers. Be Serious People.
You are Western style defensive again. Stop that! LOL Just focus on giving good horsemanship facts and they will easily apply to everyone involved with horses.
Good horsemanship is good horsemanship. All horses should be taught to tie, whatever it’s owner’s riding discipline. I see this as a given for basic training.
In the Arab show world the pampered show horses all learn to stand tied or crosstied for extended periods of time. Sure, there are a select few who panic at poll pressure and never learn to tie safely but as a whole they will wall tie, crosstie, or go on the walker for as long as they are asked to do so: no questions asked. English, Western, Halter… whatever. It teaches them patience, plus as part of a large show string they will need to deal with being saddled and then waiting their turn. That is just another part of their routine and horses like routine, as we all know.
Personally, I disagree with tying a horse up at 8am because you want to work him at noon. The barns I grew up in would’ve taken your horses, put them away and then ripped you a new one for tying a horse and leaving it while you rode other horses. Part of the reason for the policy probably came back to a combination of stupid people and damage. Several trees on one property died from bark and/or root damage caused by years of having horses tied to them.
That said, there’s a big difference between taking up half the hitching posts because you don’t want to walk the extra 50 feet to the barn between rides and tying a horse because you’ve got nowhere else to put him. Staying in a standing stall, trailer or on a line is only really cruel if you’re not considering basic amenities OR your specific horse. My friend’s old guy has arthtritis and will stock up and be unable to move if he’s not turned out enough; her mare couldn’t care less about where she is as long as there’s food.
Oh my. Yes, it’s a wonderful world when every horse will accept being tied politely for hours on end. And yes, I would love it if I could straight tie my TB to the trailer while at shows so she could be off of the trailer and move more. I’ve done that with other horses, worked great for them.
Her? I got her as an adult with years of training from people I’ll never know. I know nothing of her history, someone irresponsible owned her and had to get rid of her in a hurry so I took her in. She is not trustworthy to be straight tied to a trailer without panicking. Will I risk my mare’s health/life to fight this with her? Nope. She cross ties, I trust her to be straight tied for short periods (and a full hay net), but if my rather high strung horse hits a rope and panics? I know she’ll fight and she’d be a danger to herself and others. This is my reality. Does that make me less of a horseperson? My horse poorly trained? Is this because I’m an English rider? Nope, it’s just my horse’s quirk. I can’t handle needles, she can panic when tied.
Again, generalizations. I’m sorry, but I’ll have to excuse myself from this blog. I doubt this will even be posted. I don’t enjoy reading a blog that implies I’m a second rate horse owner because I’m not willing to take that kind of risk on something that I can manage without making her a danger to herself or others. Bully for you and your wonderfully broke horses.
WAY TO TAKE TO TAKE THINGS TOO PERSONALLY!!!!
To some people, a horse that will not tie absolutely will not fit into their horse lifestyle. For other people, it is a vice that they can work around.
For a horse, not being able to tie is a potential safety issue… what happens in an accident or disaster when someone unfamiliar with the horse has to handle it… all sorts of scenarios.
It is also a negative attached to the horse making it harder to rehome if needed (like cribbing, soundness issues, bucking, etc)
So, yeah… not the best thing.
Is it your fault your mare was improperly handled and trained at some point??? Nope.
If you are not experienced with dealing with tying issues, do I think you should try to fix it? Nope.
Do I think that your mare could be taught to tie?? Yep.
Considering she ground ties and cross ties just fine? That I can leave her cross tied in the aisle or on the trailer for hours when I need to without an issue? I really don’t see her as having a training issue. And considering what I pulled her from? She’s far more rehome-able now than she was when I got her. If I can dismount and run with her to get her out of a bad situation on a trail from the off side, I really don’t worry about what she’ll do in an emergency. If she needs to be straight tied for a short amount of time with people around, that’s fine and she’s done it before. But I’ve also seen what happens when she panics.
Can you train her to tie? Maybe. I don’t know you or your training background. I’m sure it could happen with enough work. I just have other priorities for her skill set. Will I trust my horse to you? No way for me to know.
Also, general rule of thumb, I can’t take any statement made in all caps too seriously. I took it too personally? Considering how much work I’ve put into the mare with the express goal of giving her a skill set to make her more likely to always have a home no matter what happens to me, it rubs me the wrong way. But hey, it’s the internet. People will say and react any way they want to.
The blog post described the methods Mugly uses to teach her horses to tie, and what she expects from them. She describes enough to make it clear that she’s not being abusive and her horses aren’t being harmed (as she’d previously been accused of).
You took it as an indictment of anyone who approaches the topic differently, said your feelings are hurt, and threatened to stop reading because of it. That’s why people are saying you’re over reacting.
Yeah, sometimes it’s more reasonable to work around a horse’s limitations than to try to force something. Mugly was a professional trainer mostly working with young, unbroke horses – she had the luxury of starting them the way she wanted and all the tools to do it, which the average rider doesn’t have. I don’t see where she said that all English horses have problems with tying, or that problems with tying a horse means the owner is ‘second rate’.
Anecdotally, I’ve heard of people having success with a tie blocker. (This kind of thing: http://www.smartpakequine.com/blocker-tie-ring-6004p.aspx) It holds if the horse is just fooling around, but it’ll let the rope slide a bit if the horse really panics and sits back. For some horses that’s enough for them to decide they’re not trapped and stop panicking.
Oh come now!
I have a mare that won’t tie – I COULD tie her, but I know that if something spooked her, she would rear up, pull back and struggle until either her halter or the piece of twine attached to the rope broke.
Do I want to risk that? No. Does that make me a bad, incompetent or stupid horse owner? No, and it doesn’t mean that either you nor I are being ridiculed. This mare is very flighty, we suspect she has been abused, we know her handling was neglected (don’t even get me started on all the ground issues we had to fix) and she really doesn’t NEED to tie – she will stand quietly without being attached to anything (ground tying).
Some horses don’t tie well and if you don’t HAVE to tie the horse, then they don’t NEED to tie. Some people DO need to tie their horses, so they must tie. It’s a great skill for a horse to have – but if it is dangerous, it’s not something you will be ridiculed for avoiding. It’s not a personal attack – that’s just like saying “all horses who don’t like to have their ears clipped are BAD and their owners are stupid” – not all horses need their ears clipped and I don’t think Mugly said that anyone who doesn’t tie their horse is eviiiil. She simply said it’s a good thing if a horse can stand tied and I agree, despite the fact that one of ours won’t.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
I had a mare that wouldn’t tie. I bought her when she was 10 or 11. She was an ex-show horse (western pleasure, trail, western riding, etc.). The day I tried her out, when I arrived to the facility, she was already tacked up and ready to go. Knowing then what I know now, I would have asked to come back a second day to see her barn manners. However, she was such a delight to ride, I bought her on-the-spot.
So we get home and I let her get settled in. The day comes when I want to ride. I take her out, tie her to our “hitching post”, and begin to groom. Well, come to find out, she did not like human fingers anywhere near her nostrils. She flew backwards, breaking the snap on the lead. She didn’t flip — thank god — but freaked me out immensely. I thought it was maybe a freak incident. Until it kept happening. So I wouldn’t get near her nose. Then she’d pull back with the saddle pad. Or the saddle. Or the curry comb. Or she’d wait until I had done everything so slow and deliberate so as not to offend her, the saddle would be on and secure, no one would be in her vicinity, and she’d pull back.
She didn’t always pull to the point of breaking the lead snap or something else. Sometimes she’d pull back, sit down, and then get up like nothing happened. But, after about the 4th or 5th time, I realized there was something seriously wrong and that it would be just too dangerous to continue as-is.
What I figured out is that she was perfectly fine if I draped the lead over the hitching post, or just ran it through the tie ring on the trailer. She’d stay put — wouldn’t even try to sniff around or anything. She’d also ground tie like a champ. I could drop the lead to the ground and groom her, saddle her, anything. So I learned to work with her issue.
When I sold her (actually gave her away), I sat down the the girl and explained in-detail what her issue was and what this new girl needed to do to work with it. I checked up on the mare a year or so after and the girl was following my advice and having a great time with the mare.
I didn’t get from Mugly’s post that there was any criticism of those of us who’ve had to work around a horse with a tying vice. Of course it’s better to have one that will tie. But sometimes we get ahold of a horse who’s had a questionable background. And we have to deal with it.
I had a gelding similar to your mare. Actually, he was worse. I got him later in life when he was set in his ways and I didn’t know enough at the time (I was just a 14 year old kid who was lucky enough to have room on her property for horses) to successfuly retrain him out of his bad and yes, dangerous, habit of flying straight back and ripping his halter/headrope/wall/anything he was tied down to.
Solution: my dad cut a sturdy cotton lead rope in two pieces and connected them with a rubber intertube (I believe from a bike) wrapped around several times so it wouldn’t tear, but still had some give. I tied my horse to the side of the barn. He stood quietly for a few seconds, then threw his head up in preparation to rear back and snap the rope. As soon as he felt the give in the line he froze, put his head back down, and stood still for grooming and tacking up. From then on we took that little rope with us everywhere. A year later we forgot it when we went to a horse show. Thinking that my guy was over his problem (he hadn’t tried to rear back since that first time we tried the tube lead) I tied him up with a regular leadrope. Within five seconds he threw his head up, reared back, and snapped his halter.
So I would suggest (if you haven’t already) giving the rubber intertube leadrope a try.
I don’t know why it worked for my horse, but it did. No, not all horses tie perfectly and no, not all of us are super duper miracle horse trainers. Personally I would never leave my horse (or any horse) tied to a post for hours simply because I was trying to teach him how to tie. I know, I know – booooooo! hissssssss! But we’re all entitled to our own training methods, as long as they do no harm.
I am hoping, hoping, HOPING, we won’t get any boos or hisses when we open up training dialogue. I learn so much from commenters on the other side of the street, we may disagree, but only in theory, and then we explain why.You’re completely right, what works for you is what’s best for you and your horse.
Our horses were tied all day for lots of reasons, but the main one was to have them where we needed them.
Now that I’m retired, my horses only stand tied as long as I need them to. It’s a much shorter amount of time now that I only have two to ride.
Completely off topic: I am currently riding a greenie whose owner has no time for him. I am OK with this as he is a decently level-headed soul, though stubborn and not very well trained. The issue is getting him to pick up his right front hoof for picking. I’ve never actually encountered a horse that absolutely ignores the cue to pick the hoof up. Now, he is 16’1 and massive, and I am kinda puny, but I’ve seen the farrier deal with him and it wasn’t quite such an ordeal. As we’ve been discussing, he’s not very good at yielding to pressure.
All three other hooves are fine. The right front? Ordeal, at least the last few days. When I finally do manage to wrestle up the hoof, he will start losing his balance and trying to step on the hoof I am holding (I actually figured he was faking at one point, but he will almost go down on the knee if I continue to hold the leg up). He is not leaning his weight into my hand and is allowing me to continue holding the hoof up. It’s just that there’s 1000+ of horse leaning to the ground on top of it, and that doesn’t feel safe. It feels like he completely forgets that that leg is not touching the ground. I’d suspect he’s just teaching me new tricks and entertaining himself at my expense, but he tries hard to please otherwise, and the the other three hooves are quite easy.
What’s going on? Medical issue or shenanigans? Granted, I am used to working with horses whose ground manners are somewhat made, but he’s so good about everything else, that I’d love to hear some brainstorming. He is sound otherwise, though overweight and out of shape.
Always eliminate medical issues first. So:
1. How does his other front leg handle? Pick it up, manipulate it, see if there is any resistance to bringing it up, out, in, etc…
2. Go back to his bad leg. Any difference in the flexibility or willingness to move it around once it is up? If so, the problem may be higher up in the leg on that foot. If not, then go back to the original front foot (the ‘good one’), and check for soreness, thrush, etc.
Sometimes the problem isn’t the leg you are working on, it’s the other leg that has to support all the weight now. If he isn’t fighting, but seems to want to collapse, that hints to me that there might be pain in the other leg.
Good point. The other leg (the left one he would need to stand on) is slightly pigeon toed and angled in, but I don’t know if a conformational flaw would make such a difference unless it’s already generating more issues. The new owner was told by the vet and farrier that the slight toe-in is not interfering with soundness at all, and his gaits are a ten at the moment. I’m hoping it’s a temporary blip if he maybe bruised something on the trail this week but I’ll definitely try your tests next time I see him.
It would be unusual for a horse to do that with only one leg unless it was a health/pain issue.
When we first got one of our mares she would hop around and try to pull the leg away while you were trying to pick out or lift up her hooves. After a little handling she has improved 100%, but she did this with all of her legs and due to her other issues I had a fair idea that it was lack of handling causing her to do this. She now stands still in the paddock without even a halter to have her hooves picked. If she had of done this with only one leg, I would have thought it was a medical issue.
My thought would be to get a vet to evaluate both front legs, but particuarly the front left, as that is where the pressure is being placed when the front right is picked up. It could be an issue with the front right though, so I would ask the vet to have a look at both legs just to be safe.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Argh…talk to his owner and get his LEFT front checked is my suggestion. It definitely sounds like a medical problem to me…and one with the *opposite* side.
—====Now I’m going elsewhere to write about the parts of my trip where I was actually learning and observing. I’ll be back to share what I originally felt was worth your time in a day or two. ====—-
Whoa Whoa.. the Tacky police are here..
Personally, weather you moderate this or not. I’ve removed this blog from my favorites. I cannot believe the attitude of the posts, they have no constructive insights, no laughs, and frankly leave me shaking my head that I just read the rant of some middle aged menopausal woman who hates anything that goes in any type of english saddle. This horrible attitude to hunters, jumpers, dressage, and ANY english discipline is awful. I mean.. are horse people not here for the love of the animal? Yet all the posts are littered with horrible accusations, generalizations.. and you stand on your soap box saying that it’s okay to tie a horse for 8-10 hours because it’s in training. Rope halters, patience, and repetition will get you farther into the heart of a horse than making it stand until it’s too exhausted to do anything -bet that horse doesnt walk up to you in the field.. oh wait.. it’s probably not allowed turnout.
Huh. Well, I guess some of the questions about moderation are answered.
I ride at a jumper/ hunter barn, but I recently learned how to pack. The differences are incredibly vast. In regards to tying:
At my barn, every horse has a stall and is almost always in it for some part of the day. There are a few days a year (ie. when the barn is drying out after power-washing, when we poured concrete one year) that the horses are out for more than 18-20 hours at a time. In the summer they mostly go out over night and in the winter they get as much turn-out during the day as we can manage. Anyway, the barn guideline is that a horse cannot be unattended on the cross ties (if the horse is super quiet and it’s stall is baking or it needs to dry, there are exceptions). The ties are tied to pieces of yarn at the wall and break pretty easily. The horses also have rubber ties in the stalls and get tied when tacking up. They can stand in their stall with their tack (loose) if we have a pretty good idea that they won’t roll or they stay tied to the wall. If we know we have to keep that horse tied they won’t get tacked until at least a half hour before their lesson. Same with bridles. They don’t go on until 10 to. We don’t use tying to discipline a horse. If a horse is misbehaving when getting clipped, vetted or shod, someone holds them on a stud chain, lip chain or twitch and then the barn manager works with that horse.
Riding out West was crazy for someone with my background. There were 70 horses on the property and no stalls. There were run-in sheds, but no cross ties and I had to learn the mule hitch to be able to tie my horse to the arena rails. They did shoeing on site under a covered hitching post with rubber mats. I wasn’t there for long enough to see what they did if a horse misbehaved. In the field we used hobbles, a picket line and a portable electric fence to keep horses in camp. Hobbles were a really spooky experience for me. I’m still not totally sure about them, but apart from hobble sores (which we doctored in the field) no one got hurt. We had two horses in our string which were trained to wear a picket, which was attached by a leather cuff attached to a length of climbing rope which was attached to a stake in the ground. We put 4 popular horses/ wanderers in the fence every night. Sometimes we put horses in the fence with hobble sores in the fence without hobbles, but most of the horses went into the fence with hobbles. The fence consisted of a bunch of fiberglass poles, some hot tape and a portable charger. A few of the horses could escape pretty easily. As for tacking up; out of 13 campsites, 2 had trees (this is the Red Desert in WY) so we tacked the horses while they were wearing hobbles. They stood still for the most part except when they were in the fence or on the picket all night and they were hungry because they hadn’t grazed as much. The horses were more than a half-mile outside of camp once when a wild horse without hobbles got the herd riled up. Some of the horses here didn’t tie, but since there wasn’t anything to tie them to, it was never a problem. None of these horses were ever tied for longer than an hour tops and never for discipline.
I don’t believe in tying to discipline your horse, putting an antsy or nervous horse on ties, tying a horse for long periods of time when avoidable, or tying with knots that can’t be undone or a system that can’t be broken except when picketed (the picket should NEVER come out of the ground and the horse should be specially trained). I do believe that horses should be taught to stand still and yield to pressure on ties and that ground tying is useful. It would be a tough choice for me to make to keep my horses tied all night with access to food and water rather than next to a bunch of unknown sale horses, but I would probably end up tying them.
Totally off-topic question: I was at the Puyallup Fair today and greatly enjoyed watching the draft hitches strutting their stuff. I watched them being unharnessed and bathed afterward, and was astonished at the condition of their hooves. The half-dozen horses that I watched being bathed had hooves that looked about like this: Scary hooves They were more rounded in shape and not as oddly square as the raised hoof in that photo, but had a similar amount of flare and apparently underrun heels. Is that correct for drafts? I’d recommend a new farrier if I saw that on a standard sized horse, but I don’t want to be too quick to jump to conclusions here.
I’ve seen similar feet on show drafts and raised an eyebrow at it, too. The explanation I was given by my farrier is that they leave the flares on so that the horse has a bigger foot for more traction when pulling. However, when I watched the actual pulling competition at the WI State Fair this year, the pairs were shod very much like your average riding horse – good heel and no flares to be seen.
Those are Scotch Bottom shoes used to get enhanced action in front for draft show horses. As in many other disciplines, exaggerated unnatural gaits have been increasingly rewarded by judges. Here’s a view from the bottom showing the rear shoes that are designed to change hock set.
Screwed up the link:
pic
LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE!
While this was not your intended topic, this is a great one. Tying is a fantastic tool when done right. I recently had a word with someone who tied their horse to a gate. A gate!!!!! I think most of us here are smart enough to know why a gate or a fence rail are bad ideas. The owner was being stupid & lazy. She could have walked 5 feet to the left or even 8 or so feet to the right, and she would have had a perfectly good solid post to use.
Okay, I’ll totally be the dumb one here. How exactly do you teach a horse to stand tied?? I want to work on that with my mare. She stands tied to a straight tie, but will still try to walk off if she gets irritated or bored. She has been taught, by a well respected, fair professional – but I feel like we should work on it every day. I use a rope halter – should I tie her to a sturdy wood fence? A tree? Use a safety release claspe? Tie a regular (not quick release) knot? Stand there with her and release her I’d she freaks out? (i feel like that would defeat the purpose…) The comment about the mare flipping and breaking her neck has me worried I admit.
She’s a hot headed alpha mare that has come a long way. But I openly admit that I don’t tie her enough – I only tie to groom & tack up and I feel like she needs more reinforcement. If anyone has advice I’d really appreciate it! Thanks in advance.
I am a dressage rider at heart, but sure would love to have a cowhorse at some point in my life. I learned quite a bit from my old cowboy boss when I went to college and sent my weanling GOV colt to the horse program he was doing at the college. He learned to be roped and give to pressure, tie, roundpen and generally be a good citizen. He pastured with friends horses, was loaded in a stock trailer with the others to change pastures and was never stalled. His first experience with stalling was when he was started at 3.5. The trainer’s livelyhood was in starting track TBs and they were stalled, ridden or on the hot walker, no turnout during this process and you know what…they were tied in their stalls. After the morning feed, everyone was tied, then groomed and tacked up, ridden, tied again, sometimes still bridled with a halter over. Then a bath and to the hot walker. He survived just fine, and he is getting 60s and 70s at 2nd level with his current owner. Everywhere that horse went peope could not say enough good things about his manners and his general behavior and ability to get along with other horses. He really had more of a “western” upbringing, he wasn’t treated like the coddled warmblood that many of my friends have. They have raised babies as well and all were stalled and only turned out with one or two other babies, no adult role model to show them how to behave and it shows.
When I worked at a prominent vet school in the large animal dept, the big warmbloods were the worst, no manners, often nasty and bullies. I was somewhat embarassed to be one of those dressage people. Granted there were some nice ones, but overall, they had no respect for people. I think that is why so many WB owners are flocking to the NH scene, they are trying to reclaim their personal space but you have be putting out the right aura or attitude and that is something that many riders regardless of riding style have trouble with.
I also find it amazing that the person who had so much issue with Mugly tieing her horses makes it seem like the horses were four leg hobbled. Immobile? I have yet to see a horse who is tied be immobile and they really don’t move around in a stall that much more.
Holy cats, did this ever get my attention:
“…the big warmbloods were the worst, no manners, often nasty and bullies. Granted there were some nice ones, but overall, they had no respect for people. I think that is why so many WB owners are flocking to the NH scene, they are trying to reclaim their personal space but you have be putting out the right aura or attitude and that is something that many riders regardless of riding style have trouble with.”
YES!!! You have just described the horse I’ve been riding lately! He’s a 17 hh. German-born WB gelding, with dinner-plate feet and a huge head, and he’s the worst bully I’ve ever been around. NO respect, no manners, and personal space? Phhhhffft. Get outta his way or else. And Parelli made him worse in some ways… fortunately he is better now and is expected to behave, but he still pushes his boundaries all the time. Is this really linked to typical training in a German dressage barn, which as far as I know is where he started out? I always thought it was “just him,” but then, I have no other experience with big warmbloods. I have also thought that maybe he was cut late, which would explain his very cresty neck and aggressive attitude, but I have no idea. I will note that he is absolutely wonderful to ride once you’re safely aboard. Obedient, responsive, has the softest mouth you could ask for, etc. Can you please elaborate on why you think all those WBs you saw were ugly on the ground?
I have ridden jumpers, barrel racers, even some arab racehorses as an exercise rider THEY ALL TIED, WELL AND QUIET FOR AS LONG AS I CHOSE. I NOW have an 8 yr old reining/cowhorse stallion. A few years ago I had him in the barn in the cross ties he used everyday for YEARS. I had saddled him and decided to use the bathroom before I rode, so I walked to the house, used the bathroom, talked to a friend for a few minutes before she and I walked back out. My stallion was laying on the ground with his head bent to one side all the way to the saddle with a look that said, “Um, can you please help?” Apparently he was goofing around turned himself around in the ties, got it caught on the saddle horn and laid himself down against the wall. No injuries or scrapes to the horse, ground, or saddle. He simply gave to pressure and sat there and waited until someone came to let him go. No, I had never laid him down before that. He just spent alot of time tied from 1+ year on. THAT my friends is what all day long waits at the hitching post yields; patience. Its comforting to know should my horse get tangled in a rope, garden hose, his own blanket he wont freak out and hurt himself, he’ll just wait.
Mugs you are my kind of horse person. ANy horse that arrive on my property learn to tie up. whether its a mustang, an ex race horse or a fancy warmblood. Same as you i tie them high so they cant hurt themselves. they come in, in the morning are given hay and stay tied until they are ridden, tied up again and then turned out. most of them just come in and sleep. some of them have tantrums to begin with then, but they settle down. I find once they have learned this lesson alot of other problems disspear to. when it comes to show time, they already are used to being tied all day so are calm with the whole thing.
http://www.wildhorseproject.blogspot.com
Well that’s it, I’m off. I loved the Fugly blog, and even though it wasn’t always relevant to my horse life in the UK, and sometimes I didn’t agree with all of it, usually it, and the majority of the comments, struck a chord with me.
This is no longer the Fugly blog, and I wish you would just change the name in recognition of this. I’ve still dipped in from time to time, without finding anything to engage with, but this stuff on tying horses leaves me cold. In my world, yes, horses are trained to stand politely tied, but only while supervised– it would never cross my mind to walk away and leave one tied. My horses all stand tied patiently, but they are always within my sight. The rope is always tied to a bit of weak string so that, if something spooks the horse, that string breaks rather than the horse’s neck. Horses aren’t programmable machines– they are flight animals and just about all of them are capable of being spooked to the point of flight by something unexpected happening. With horses always expect the unexpected.
Some of the comments here on your “training” methods for tying absolutely horrify me. e.g.” I have been known to just tie a horse to a tree (safely) and leave it for a couple of days to enforce patience. Yup, even with no water or hay unless I give it to them. ” That is abuse, plain and simple.
And no, horses don’t need to have been used to being tied for hours on end to show patience if they ever get trapped like some of you seem to think. My old mare got her shoe caught in a fence once and stood patiently waiting for me to rescue her for hours, and she had never been tied and left unsupervised in her life.
It’s amazing to me how all those horses throughout history actually lived long enough to reproduce without you there to watch them every minute of the day. Oh, right, you would not have, because you wouldn’t have had any food to eat, what with spending your time watching your horse. I didn’t say I starved them or caused them distress from not drinking water, just that “I” brought it to them. I find the treatment of horses that some people insist upon these days similar to the way a lot of people are raising their spoiled, entitled, self-centered children. I won’t own a horse that would be that unsafe.
WOW. Can you be any nastier to ZAN.
I personally would never let you near any of my horses, but how you train yours are your business. I don’t have an issue with horses tied for long periods…many years ago, probably before alot of you even thought of having horses I road at a rental barn that tied theirs up all day, if they weren’t being ridden, from the reins with no issues.
Oh yeah..and I raised a few of those kids that never got struck or spanked, but were disciplined and they turned out to be productive members of society that don’t think they are entitled to anything more than what they can earn and afford.
Twiggys says:
September 17, 2011 at 1:04 pm
“I was really surprised when I logged on and saw that no one had blasted you for tying overnight. At one point, I was completely bombed for saying I saw nothing wrong with daily worked cart horses in cities living in proper tie stalls and that as a kid in 4-H we much prefered the week-long event when we had the tie barn as the stalls were much easier to clean. While I have seen some real disasters with old time cowboys bringing in the unbroke two year olds, tying them all to the wall then doing such things as rolling tires at them, flapping tarps, and shooting guns, I have been known to just tie a horse to a tree (safely) and leave it for a couple of days to enforce patience. Yup, even with no water or hay unless I give it to them. Sometimes saddled, if the saddle seems to be a problem for a colt. Never had one majorly hurt (I don’t count a couple of scrapes from the tree–they learn pretty quick) or have any lasting issues except patience, ease of tying, and learning that I can control food and water and freedom. AND that standing patiently tied is actually a repreive from hard work and is a great time to sleep.”
It wasn’t Mugly who said that.
Hmmmmm, I also believe in a horse learning to tie well, but, I find all the “tying to the trailer at the show” comments to be disturbing. I hope those horses have someone watching over them (someone ACTUALLY watching, not just trailered next door), we have seen on this blog what can happen to an unattended horse at a horse show. I see many alone at the local shows, rarely at a Morgan show, H/J or dressage event. Why? We have both english and western tack in our barn, but I absolutely see more western event horses tied alone at shows for hours (and see the owners in the stands). And as for the earlier comment about certain horses being held while the farrier works? I would consider that very prudent, a good farrier friend told me “If the farrier asks for a drink when your horse is acting up, it’s gonna get a beating while you are gone”. That is a common joke at the farrier conventions. The Morgan stallion “Trilson” was killed when the farrier stabbed him with a rasp and he bled out. I love my farrier, and know it’s a hard, under-appreciated job, but I didn’t leave my well behaved horses alone with her for years. She said she was so proud the day I told her to go ahead and get started when I wasn’t home. When I apologised for being overprotective, she said it was smart and to never let anyone mess up my well behaved horses.
Recently I pulled my two young horses out of a trainer’s barn, partly because of the tying issue. It’s not a problem with them standing tied; they’ve been trained to do that. However, like Mugs this trainer would stand her working string tied all the while she worked others. My horses were new to the barn and there were kids and other horses they didn’t know moving all around them. They were really nervous and by the time she started to work them, were in a frazzle. Wow, what a way to begin a training session.
Sure, over time they will get used to it — maybe. This “technique” is called “flooding”: prolonged exposure to a sensation until the (fear) reaction is extinguished. This is effective for some individuals, but is less effective than systematic desensitization.
I find that “trainers” like the one I pulled my horses away from use these approaches without much insight. Someone told them this is the way to do things and that’s what they do. Mostly this approach — and most of the other ways this person was “training” my horses — was about dominance: I can do this to you and there’s nothing you can do about it.
The last half century of psychological research in behavior modification has taught us stuff. We should heed it and use it to the benefit of our horses and each other.
I grew up in the English H/J world and never thought twice about a horse, whether lesson or boarder, being tied: they ALL did it, as a matter of course. In their stalls, in cross ties, to a handy post, to a trailer, whatever. It never crossed my mind as a kid that a horse “wouldn’t tie.” In fact, all I worried about in regards to tying was whether or not I had done my quick-release knot properly!
Now I know better: yes, there are horses who due to a severe trauma or medical issues cannot/will not be tied. That’s fine with me. If I had one like that I expect I’d work around the issue, just like people have mentioned here. I think I could manage to train a horse to ground-tie, but would not be interested in experimenting with one, especially an older one, that had too many hangups about hard tying. Far too much potential for injury to horse or me. That said, I have yet in my 40+ years of horse acquaintanceship to meet a “non-tyer.”
Final note: I’m not a huge fan of the tie-blocker rings for horses without a tying issue. I’ve used them and the horses I’m around have figured out they can get loose from them pretty easily, and you’re liable to turn around and find them wandering off down the aisle… I can see how they’d be really useful for a puller, but for a regular one? Not so sure.