Horse Health Question Day!
Jun 16 2011
Visit the Golden Carrot for their open house THIS weekend!
I’ve done this before and I’m doing it again…ask away about any horse health question that is baffling you, or that you’d just like some input on. Obviously, I assume that if you are reading this blog, you are smart enough to have already asked a veterinarian and had the horse seen if necessary, but I also know that many of my readers have been doing the horse stuff a very long time and just “know what works” with regard to a variety of conditions. Someone may be able to give you some input that really makes a difference!
Here’s my question: CELLULITIS. It is safe to say that cellulitis is my least favorite horse condition to deal with (well, short of a twisted gut or something else equally extreme). This year, I have a chronic cellulitis horse to care for. She has had a flare up that blew her leg up all the way past the hock. I am doing all of the standard stuff like SMZ’s, bute and cold hosing or icing, keeping her turned out as much as possible and pressure wrapping (well, the part of the leg I can wrap, it’s pretty darn hard to pressure wrap a hock) and I’m getting improvement but not as much as I’d like. For those of you also suffering with a chronic cellulitis horse, have you come up with any miracle cures, techniques or supplements that seem to help?
If you haven’t had to deal with cellulitis yet, here’s a good blog entry about it on Equestrian Ink. Horrible condition 
I really want to help this mare, so I’m interested to hear what you have to say if you’ve fought cellulitis and won!
OK, what’s your baffling horse health question? Don’t be afraid to ask…trust me, everyone gets stumped once in a while (even vets!)
And for those of you horse-shopping…check out Ayudame at Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue!
472 comments to “Horse Health Question Day!”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
I owned a lovely little QH mare who’s Left hind leg blew up one day. Vet came and thought that possibly it was some sort of bite wound. We scrubbed and treated and put her on antibiotics, cold hosed, walked etc. Within a few days, it was now HUGELY swollen all the way up the limb and starting to affect the other hind leg. We shaved her leg and found a few tiny marks, that I suppose could have been a bite wound. Vet changed her antibiotics to Penicillin and Gentocin injections..and after several more days I hauled her to OSU (Oregon State University). By now, she also had some swelling along her midline. They talked about the possibility of having to criss cross her legs with incisions to relieve some of the tension on the skin since they were so hugely swollen. Fluid would drip from areas of her skin. While they did call it cellulitis..with a belly tap they gave the best “guess” of cancer, and the “prediction” that if they were correct she would be dead within 30 days. We went home to wait for her to die. She was put on constant turnout, and I spent time several times each day making her move around more and continued the cold hosing etc. She continued to slowly look better. The swelling in her legs looked better, but she was dull and listless. 30 days later she was still no only alive..but she looked great. Her coat gleamed, her weight was great (both always had been great)..but she was still sort of a walking zombie. I took her back to OSU several months later, where again she had some abnormal cells in her belly tap. They again ruled out anything with her heart, and any lab abnormalities. They did an abdominal ultrasound and found nothing, but thought that possibly she could have some adhesions along her belly wall, possibly from having PHF about 10 years before (When PHF was first spreading). Now, they suggested that I lunge her vigorously for at least 20 minutes a day..to try to break up the adhesions and allow her to move better. It was torture..she did not even want to trot, and I felt awful trying to make her trot. She was happy just walking around grazing and hanging out..so that is what we did. As long as it was not miserable and rainy..where she stayed in her shelter most of the time..her legs only swelled maybe once or twice a months..then took several days to return to normal. Every few months, it may be bad again and then spread to her belly or her chest. We went to OSU a third time…about 2 1/2 years after the first time..her cellulitis was getting a little worse again, and not responding to moving around, and to the cold hosing. I could walk my stallion right past her nose and she didn’t care. She still looked great though. OSU still thought that it was probably cancer, although they assured me that there could be a tumor the size of a basketball in her abdomen, and if it was in the center..they could not see it on ultrasound. At that time they again palpated her and could not find a mass (this was done each exam..but I forgot to mention that part). Aprox three weeks later I called my vet to finally put her down. She just did not have any enjoyment of life and I could find no answers..my vet arrived and REFUSED! She said there was no way that she would put a mare down that looked as healthy as she did. I explained about her lack of any sort of care for life. She only ate if another horse was near her eating..sort of to remind her to eat. Although..yes her weight was great. She really had no interest in life at all. So, I called my old vet..several cites away. I sent him her records and talked over all that we had done. ..he came out and put her down. Upon palpating her after he put her down..he was able to feel a HUGE tumor..he estimated to be the size of a basketball..it was not there three weeks earlier when OSU had examined her. I thought about a necropsy..but decided against it. I honestly think that OSU was right in it’s initial diagnosis. Molly just had not read the book on how this should proceed. I still feel bad at times that I let her go for so long..if she had not looked so great..I never would have done that. Or at the very least if I had a concrete diagnosis that would have made my decision easier. I am sure this is one of those “zebra problems” But..sometimes hoofbeats are a zebra..not always a horse.
Suzi
Ok, here is a puzzling case. I have a 10 year old Friesian cross mare I bought 2 years ago. For all of those 2 years, something has been a bit ‘off’. When we first started schooling her, she was very crooked, she had difficulty going in a straight line, and seemed a bit stiff in the hocks. Aha! we said, get the chiro out. Yes, she had some issues in her hips. Adjusted her twice, no more issues. Then we start seeing an occasional ouchy step in the front. She would be fine them take 10-15 steps like she was falling over then be fine. Have the vet out, can’t find anything. Her joints are lumpy, and she had lumps at her shoulder. So we figure strain? and give her time off. Start riding her again, goes fine for months, then ouchy steps again. Vet still can’t find anything, so I think arthritis and put her on joint supplements, and occasional bute. Then she has a winter off except for a few walkies trail rides from the kids. I go to ride her this spring, and it’s like her whole left side doesn’t work. She doesn’t want to pick her feet up, doesn’t want to move. I think chiro? but my farrier suggested Lymes. I have her tested, yes, she is positive for the Lymes titer. I put her on the meds, and now 4 weeks later she is 100% sound, better than she has ever been. My farrier was looking at her feet, and her hooves have always been ripply, lots of rings and lines. Now she has 1/2 inch of perfect, smooth hoof growing in. So for 2 years we misdiagnosed the poor girl!
When in doubt, do all the blood work!
Thanks for all your suggestions everyone! I haven’t wormed him in a while (usually do it at the same time farrier comes out so I remember) but I havent for these last two trimming cycles. No excuses really, just didn’t make it a priority.
I will make sure to hit him up with both Ivermectin and Prazantiquel (misspelled I know) for the next two months (one each month).
I will also get some form of moisturizer and shampoo for his tail. He hasn’t started losing hair yet, but the skin does seem dry and kind of irritated.
Once again thanks!
I took some crappy grainy photos of what it looks like now yesterday http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150289257998455&set=a.398618543454.199431.626773454&type=1&theater
It probably still doesn’t look very nice but it went from being an inch deep to just a superficial crack on the surface.
The farrier checked for thrush and there surprisingly wasn’t any, there also wasn’t any bug in the crack. He’s been fine since last Friday so I’ve started walking him out on trails again and lungeing him every second day to start bringing him back into light work.
I just don’t really know if I should stick to barefoot with easy boots on trails or get him shod for more support? What would you guys do?
I would shoe, although I can’t see the pictures (access denied). A crack is a specific problem, and it only gets worse when the horse has to go without support. Barefoot trimming is wonderful, and perhaps if the crack completely resolves it might be an option in the future, but as long as there is a crack, even a small one, you will irritate and increase the problem every time he compresses his hoof (lands on it). A shoe spreads that compression evenly across the entire foot, and helps protect the crack that way.
Again, if the crack grows out and disappears, then go back to barefoot, but if it caused by damage to the coronary band, you may well be looking at always using shoes on your horse when you ride. A good biotin supplement like Farrier’s Formula or Source will help grow the best hoof possible for your horse.
We have a mare at my work that has on and off lameness. We have had two local vets and an out-of-town vet, as well as two quality farriers have a look and they are stumped. We sent away some bloodwork- and they couldn’t find a darned thing.
She became lame shortly after foaling (she is put in foal every year, and this has never happened) and has been extremely sore on all four legs. She has also been quite dull (probably due to the large amount of pain she is in).
X-rays showed nothing.
My best guess is a hormonal problem- perhaps an ulcer in her womb.. Something like that would be my best guess. She was put on a hormonal balancer earlier this year to regulate her heat cycles. And since we’ve had problems with her going into season- she has not been serviced this year.
As of the last month- she has been very sound and happy. I am crossing my fingers that this mysterious lameness will not come back…
If you have any ideas as what this could be- I’d love to hear it!
What grade uterus? Lameness in all four legs within a few days of foaling could be milk fever (rare in horses), or more likely a piece of retained placenta which putrefied and caused a massive infection that went systemic. She probably needs flushed and infused with antibiotics at the very least. Even if she is currently sound, any infection in the uterus will degrade the lining and quality, which is why many older mares end up with ‘low grade’ or ‘grade four’ uterus– not a good bet for becoming safely in foal.
I knew a mare who was sold (It still makes me furious to this day) and shipped across country to be used as a broodmare. Within a day or two of arrival, she became very fevered and sore, to the point where we thought we might lose her. She was put on antibiotics, and with the thought that hopefully she would live through whatever was wrong, the owner/breeder pulled her out, put her in stocks, and did a routine flush. Her discharge was dark brown…. She had a massive recurring infection in her uterus, and would become ill and extremely lame unless flushed regularly every few days. Obviously she wasn’t breeding sound, since the infection couldn’t be cleared (and believe me, they tried everything, because she was THAT good of a broodmare). She also couldn’t survive without being flushed every few days, and if left too long, she would run a fever, go lame, and basically become septic. What kind of a sick person sells a horse in that condition, without disclosing the problem? It was pure luck that caused the owner to go ahead with a routine flush– if he had waited until her ‘sickness’ resolved, she would have suffered miserably for days or weeks before dying, thanks to the previous owner wanting to get just a little more money out of a broodmare that was already on the all time producers list, instead of putting her down right away.
Best guess for for all round lameness after foaling is laminitis, which is often secondary to the culprit that Charm suggested: infection, of some type. As to the origin I’d go with retained placenta / puerperal fever over mastitis, as that’s relatively rare in mares and also it’s pretty hard to miss unless it’s low grade, and low grade infection is less likely to lead to the degree of discomfort that you’re describing.
If it was laminitis, some mares develop it after foaling even without infection present – opinions vary as to why, but the most common theories seem to be hormonal swings / stress on the gut / drastic change in dietary requirements from carrying vs nursing leading to gut dysfunction / toxins in the bloodstream following extreme exertion if they have a bad labour. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed mares who tend to late pregnancy oedema seem more prone. If it is foaling laminitis, fitness in the mare helps, and there are things that can be done with dietary management, but I’ve got to be honest, most of the mares who develop it have it recur and it tends to be a broodmare career ender.
I know I’m late to this. But, I have a navicular/previously foundered horse (rotated coffin bone in one foot, deteriorating navicular in the other). We’ve reached the point where we can’t keep him sound anymore with just shoeing. We can try injections, and we can block him.
How do you all feel about blocking/nerving?
Also, he limps a little at a walk & trot, but when I get on him he wants to go, go, go even though he’s limping. Do I ride him when he’s just limping a little? Could I give him some bute and take him on easy trail rides? He seems bored sitting in the pasture all day
The problem with nerving is that they trip. They can’t feel their foot anymore. I think nerving is fine to make a horse comfortable to be a pasture pet, but not if you are going to ride.
I personally believe in leaving navicular horses barefoot and shooting them up with Adequan monthly. Have you tried that? Also, 24/7 turnout is a MUST. Stall them and they’re lame.
You won’t make a navicular horse worse by riding him, so I have no issue with giving him some bute and going for a light ride. But I am sure someone reading this will think I am Satan for saying it.
My first horse was a navicular horse. Work made him better. He’d often be lame at first, particularly in the cold months, but after 15-20 minutes warm up he’d be fine. His owner told me that he had to be shod to be sound (I leased him) and at the time I believed her but now I’m not so sure…….
My current mare had all sorts of vague lamenesses, nothing specific, and being a heavy-built 15.3hh, 650kg (1400 lbs or so) appy with a good smattering of racing QH in her breeding, they put it down to navicular. I never xrayed her though, as I don’t believe they are a good test for navicular. Some horses can show all the clinical signs but have normal x-rays and other horses can have huge radiographic changes but be sound as a bell……..
Anyway, this mare WAS lame when barefoot at first. She was shod when I bought her so I kept going with it because that’s what I’d always been taught to do. Moved to an area with softer ground and on the advice of another person removed her shoes. Yes, she did struggle at first, her feet chipped away and she was lame on hard surfaces, but gradually she improved and she is now 100% sound and never seen a shoe in 7 years. I’ve recently moved again, to an area with much harder ground and she remains sound.
Moral: shoes are not necessary. It may take a while to transition to barefoot, but stick with it. I’ve also learned to trim myself, and so save a lot of money with three horses!
Ride him! If he’s enjoying it, do it! He’ll let you know if it’s too much pain for him. My navicular horse would often start a session lame but 15-20 mins in would be trotting sound (even winning dressage tests!) so go for it. Most of the good old pony clubbers are not completely sound and kids ride them all day!
Don’t worry about the bute. It does more damage than good a lot of the time. Keep it for when he really needs it.
Thanks for the input!
I wasn’t sure about blocking, the vet says he would still have 40% feeling so he wouldn’t trip too much, but it seemed like a terrible idea to me.
I have not tried adequan, so that may be something to try! He has not been barefoot since the “natural” whatever farrier thought since he NATURALLY grew a ton of heel on one foot and no heel on the other, his angles should not be corrected because that was the way he NATURALLY grew. As first time horse owners, my parents and I didnt know better at the time. That was when we first figured out he had a rotated coffin bone (he went 3 legged lame).
The foot that bothers him the most has a rotated coffin bone (previous founder), and he seems to do best with a small pad. He limps soo badly when he has shoes off for a few minutes (when we’re shoeing), I’d be very hesitant to let him go barefoot.
He is on 24/7 turnout, but seemed to do ok on turnout ~8 hrs a day when I had to board him this spring.
Now I don’t feel so bad about riding him.. he has entirely too much energy right now from just sitting in the pasture!
Normally I suggest pulling shoes to fix feet, but In your case I would definitely NOT just pull the shoes. I would have the vet take pictures and work hand in hand with a farrier who specializes in corrective shoeing and REALLY knows how to read x-rays. Unfortunately some of those barefoot trimmers out there have too much of an agenda pushing their own beliefs to step back from the situation and look at what is best for the horse.
Now that it is threatening to dry out in the Pacific Northwest, I have finally started letting the horses go out on the grass (I can usually start in mid-April, but this year has been really soggy). They live in large dirt/gravel paddocks with shelters during the rainy months. Of course I always start slowly, and gradually increase the time they are out until they can spend the day in the field, but I’m wondering what sort of schedule other folks use for this. How long do you turn them out to start? How much time do you add, and how often? Does that change if they are wearing grazing muzzles? I have never seen any specific schedule recommendations for this transition.
I personally start with no more than 10 or 15 minutes and work up from there…probably takes me 3 weeks or so to get them to where they are are out all the time. I should also note that I’ve never owned a founder prone horse so I might be far more conservative with it if I did.
I also usually give my horses all the grass hay they can eat, and THEN turn them out onto pasture. They deeply resent the ‘trick’, since they quickly fill up due to the hay they consumed and can’t eat themselves sick on the grass. Still, it works very well to help keep them from gorging on green grass. I don’t remember who taught me this trick, but it has worked wonders in keeping those spring colics at bay, and it’s easier to bring the horses in from pasture after an hour if they aren’t still hogging the grass like crazy.
One other trick that seems to work well is to turn them out onto pasture during the warmest, buggiest part of the day to start– again, it keeps them moving and less likely to just sit and hog down on grass.
Keeping them moving is NOT the problem. They generally spend more time racing around like idiots than they do eating, at least for the first several days. It’s not unusual to have to walk a couple of them out after they come back in. I try to turn them out after they’ve been worked, but it doesn’t always work out that way. Most of them get free choice hay 24/7 anyway, so I don’t think the hay trick would make much difference.
I know I’m late to the cellulitis discussion but my mare has odd bouts with it and so I thought I’d share
Adopted from a rescue 2 years ago with no known health issues – developed 3 windpuffs on her left rear six months after I got her (happened in the pasture during the day, no issues surrounding it) and starting this past January she’s had on/off lameness with and without swelling on that leg. Cold hosing, bute and constant turnout would clear up individual ‘flare ups’ until last month when I noticed some puffiness on the inside of her fetlock running up to her cannon. Only lame at the trot to the right. While waiting for the vet appt in 2 days (neither he nor I thought it was emergent), her leg started swelling – hard and hot. The morning the vet came, a huge chunk of hoof wall split off, so vet suspected abcess. Prescribed furazone/DMSO on the leg (I don’t sweat, just slather), oral dex and wrapped the hoof til I could get the farrier out with as much turnout as possible in this heat. Within 2 days, leg was back to normal, farrier came and rebuilt the hoof with epoxy and we’ve been good. Still slightly off at the trot to the right tho. A few weeks ago, I noticed swelling again, but this looked like a bow. No lameness at all with this. Started back with furazone/DMSO at vet’s suggestion, and put on SMZ’s (more on that in a minute) and swelling went away. Vet thinks it’s cellulitis so I just have to deal with each flare up as they happen.
Now…my mare also has a chronic staph infection – I believe it stems from an allergy to horsefly bites – and it’s been a long uphill battle when she has any kind of break out, but what has made the biggest difference is SmartProtect from SmartPak. It’s an immune system booster, and since starting that, she’s had very mild issues and I believe that’s why her cellulitis is never out of control. Maybe something to consider for your girl?
Just wanted to share my personal battle with cellulitis – I feel your pain fugs!!!!!
I follow Pat Coley the natural horse and have been very successful–she would advocate Vitamin C as a supplement. I give it to my horses several days before vaccinations and worming and several days after to help with the chemical invasion. so far (knock on wood) over 4 years with her program I have not needed to see a vet for anything but maintenance and all my horses came to me with problems. I love seeing them healthy, active and happy!
I must add that my horses live in a herd of 4 –24/7 with compatible horses–they are all friends–quality hay, fresh water and shelter available at all times. My horses are encouraged to move constantly around the pasture by spreading hay all around. MY hay is analyzed every year and sups are made up to help with what is missing from hay, on top of adding the vit c around vaccinations and worming. this is prevention stuff- obviously but follow advice from vet for antibiotics etc and add the vit c to help the horse cope with the toxins…this is my experience and it has helped.