Your horse is trying to tell you something!
Mar 27 2011
It’s been a while since I’ve perused the always-entertaining and often scary Bad Riding Livejournal page. There seems to be a common theme going with a few of these videos: Not listening to your horse trying to tell you something.
Now, let’s just pass over the obvious issues here — that the horse is not at all traveling straight, is hollow-backed, is laying on his inside shoulder and is so strung out that it’s scary. What I want to talk about here is the horse telling the rider that he hurts and the rider ignoring it. Go back and watch again and watch the ears. Watch the expression. Watch the overall stiffness of the body. Watch the tail crank when it becomes disunited at the canter. This horse couldn’t be sending a more clear message about being in pain if he Tweeted it with his little hoofie. I’m guessing this is a teenager riding, but her trainer needs a swift kick, both because the horse simply isn’t broke enough to jump yet, and because the horse is being jumped at all without addressing the source of the discomfort.
It is never normal for a horse to look pissy all the time when you’re riding. A snarly face while being passed in the arena, sure. But any time you see constant ear pinning, tail wringing, or bracing up against the bit with the back hollow, something is wrong. Either your riding is irritating the living hell out of the horse, or something on the horse hurts. Ultimately, the only way the horse has to tell you that something hurts, if you aren’t paying attention, is put your ass into the ground — so it is definitely in your best interests to figure out what is wrong and fix it before that happens.
Could be a sore back/wrong saddle.
Could be teeth.
Could be ulcers.
Could be his feet hurt.
Could be “female issues” in mares.
Could be a girth sore. You’d be amazed how many people miss a sore right behind the horse’s elbow, particularly when the horse is shaggy in winter.
Could be irritation from poor grooming. I’ve seen many a shaggy horse get burrs or a clot of mud under his belly. Put a girth over that and you are almost certain to have a rodeo.
Check this one out. Her tail is going like a Model T Ford. This mare is uncomfortable, and the girl seems to think it’s entertaining or something or that she’s just being a bitch.
Let’s face it, this is why they BLOCK tails…because the tail would give away how miserable and in pain the horse is. Block the tail and voila, quiet tail and no red flag to the judge.
Check out this tail going at about the minute mark. Although I wouldn’t be cranking my tail, I think I would have offloaded her and stomped on her by now. I know she’s a kid, but folks, this is why your kid needs a trainer and supervision.
The point is, there is always a reason. Horses are not “just crabby” or “cranky because they are old.” There’s always a reason and 99% of the time there’s a solution.
Like taking off the nasty thin twisted snaffle/draw reins/running martingale combination here. I bet THAT would fix the horse’s pissy face, don’t you think?
I’d love to hear everyone’s stories about pain issues they resolved that turned their horse into an entirely different animal. And if you suspect a pain issue is behind your horse’s behavior, feel free to post about it and maybe we can give you some ideas!
This guy is too cute…just turning 4 this spring, this is Galloping Chief at Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue. He sounds like he has an awesome personality and is ideal for someone who loves a “people horse.” If you’re in need of a big baby and you’re in the Maryland area, check him out!
238 comments to “Your horse is trying to tell you something!”
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I’d just about bet you money that the second horse – the one on the video titled “Home Olivia” is sore because of the doofus on her back. The girl keeps standing in the stirrups and flopping down on that poor horse’s back. That animal’s back is probably out 6 ways to Sunday from the sack of crap that’s bouncing around up there. That girl either needs to learn how to sit, or she needs to drop her stirrups, Or both. Ugh.
As for my experiences with horses in pain, my drill horse is a big lanky dude. He can bend like a rubber band, but he pays for it in that his back has a tendency to go out. I do what I can to help him out – I warm him up good, I do a lot of flexing and stretching with him, plus I almost always use a block when I get on. But, inevitably, his back goes out and he gets sore. I can always tell because he gets nice. If Reno’s not being a dork and getting into my face constantly, I know he’s not feeling well. The last time I had him chiropracted, he had gotten way out. I couldn’t get the chiro out and he had to work a whole bunch. I basically had to bute him whenever I used him for the last week before the chiro showed up. (Yes, I do feel terrible about this, and I did use my other horse as much as I could, but there is only so much I can do with my backup horse and I had performance committments that I couldn’t avoid.) Anyhow, when I did get the chiro out, it was amazing. When Mark started working on Reno, Reno had his head down, just being quiet. The longer the chiro worked, the more active Reno got. By the he was done, Reno was in my face trying to lick my nose and play with me.
I used to think equine chiropractors were a way to seperate fools from their money, but I have to say that it definitely makes a positive difference in my horse, and for that I will happily pay. Which is kinda funny considering that I’m paying to have a “gentle” (in pain) horse turned into a big asshole who feels good. Most people pay to have a horse put the other way around. Go figure…. But In know that when my horse is feeling good, he’s a big jerkwad. So, there you go. I guess the moral of the story is that you need to know what your horse acts like when he’s feeling good so that you know when he’s not.
My horse Tag one winter became really touchy to brush in a few spots. He seemed okay to ride, but I was concerned with the constint twitching of his muscles when I groomed him. A friend of mine recommended a really great chiro that she had used in the past so I brought her out (from about 6 hours away) called around and posted a sign at the barn for others who would like to sign up to help absorb some of the costs of bringing her out.
The results we saw in some of the horses was incredible. Tag ended up being out at the pole and a few places in his back. When she hit the main one in his back he let out the largest sigh of relief and proceded to dose off head right down to the ground for the rest of the appointment. The chiro figures he must have had a slip and fall in the paddock which through his back out of alignment. What is great with our chiro is that she has a follow up appointment for six weeks later already included in the initial price.
Any chiropractor, horse or human specialist, that you have to follow up with again and again is NOT doing a good job. Trust me on this one. Also, if they are just telling you that the horse’s back is “out” (which is the most useless, non-explanatory term EVER and drives me crazy!!!), they also aren’t doing a good job. What the hell is OUT? Are the facets impinged? Which ones? Is there abnormal motion in a plane? If so, which plane? I’ll spare you my profanity ridden rage fest about chiropractors, but I think you should think more about why his back is “out” in the first place. If he is using the right muscles and being strengthened in the right way, that shouldn’t happen. If his joints are articulating correctly and all of the static constraints are in place, this also shouldn’t happen. While there is a place for spinal manipulation in this world, it has a very, very narrow therapeutic threshold and should never be done over and over every time there is pain. There is a lot of research being done right now in the realm of manipulation that is showing that with long term use of this treatment, we see atrophy and decline of the small but vitally important tiny intrinsic muscles of the spine. (If you say this to your chiro they will probably curl up into the fetal position and begin rocking back and forth, so be careful when bringing this up. It’s sort of debunking their entire profession within the rehabilitation world.) If you want to solve this problem once and for all, get to the root of it, don’t just have someone adjust it every few weeks.
Very well said! I have had the chiro argument many times in regard to human and animal. I have a coworker who had a horse slip and fall on the cement breezeway in his barn (another pet peeve) and the next day the horse could barely walk and had a HUMP in his back. So they called a chiropractor, not a vet. Because the hump went away he wouldn’t buy my argument about the guy being a quack. But a few weeks later they had to call him again, then again… I tried to explain they were NOT treating the underlying problem, but I might as well been talking to a teenager (sorry teenagers, but I have talked to walls that listen better than some tenagers).
Wow sounds like someone is a doctor that has lost patients to kinder,gentler, and natural methods of healthcare! Show me one doctor that actually tries to get to the root of a problem BEFORE prescribing meds!
I’m getting my doctorate, but in physical therapy, not as an MD. I’m the first to say we should try other things before medications and surgery, especially with back pain. I just call it as I see it, and there is no good evidence to support constant manual work on the spine and joints as a treatment for pain. I know how to do it, and it does have its place, but re-adjusting over and over has not been shown to be efficacious. And it really doesn’t fix the ligaments, or the muscles, or the movement patterns. There is this really great logic behind it- something is out, so I’ll put it back in! But just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it works. Which is unfortunate, because it’s fast and easy and actually really fun to do. The basis of chiropracting is founded around “The Law of the Nerve”, a doctrine that has since shown to be very flawed. This is a huge debate in my field right now and I am really enjoying watching it play out, and as a student, it is my prerogative to stay on top of the research so I can provide the best possible care to my patients.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you and desertcowgirl are saying the same thing, from different angles. You’re both saying that injuries and weakness can lead to misalignment, which can factor into pain (especially back pain). Chiro is great for putting bones back into place, but that’s usually only one part of the problem. Strengthening, stretching, and changes in management are usually necessary to resolve the underlying problem. The horse may need to be adjusted several times while the other issues are being addressed, but it shouldn’t need to be adjusted for the rest of its life. That’s just putting a band-aid on the problem instead of really fixing it.
Am I understanding you both correctly?
Yep, exactly. A good chiro or body work person shouldn’t be “adjusting” your horse every time they come out. I have my own issues with chiropractors on a professional level, but the point of my post was to say hey horsey people, it’s your money, spend it on someone who isn’t just getting you addicted to their services. Expect a lot out of someone you are paying for body work and check up on their credentials.
this is foolishness. correcting any long term injury through chiropractic work can spread over a length of several visits, sometimes a year or more, especially if the underlying reasons for the misalignment aren’t addressed. improper hoof angles are a big cause, as are lack of turnout, poor saddle fit, poor riding and bitting, eating from anywhere above ground level – the list goes on and on, in addition to conformational and conditioning challenges the horse faces. you can be sure that if a horse’s basic biomechanics are off in any way from any of the above reasons and more, he’s going to consistently require chiropractic adjustment in order to be ‘correct’. sure, sometimes it’s a funky roll in the pasture that makes them go out, and that’s a one-time fix if there’s no other complicating factors, but usually that’s not the case.
over time when you have a misalignment in the skeletal system, the musculature and ligaments surrounding it adapt and change to compensate for the imbalance. it takes time to correct this – you reset a joint that has been carried in a particular position for months, possibly even years, especially if there is enough misalignment to cause pain and defensiveness of the area, and the ligaments are going to be stretched out in some places and too tight in others. again, ligaments heal very very slowly, and the only way to have them heal properly is to continue to support them by making sure the cause of the problem in the first place and continuing to adjust over time until the muscles and ligaments return to a place of balance and stability. sometimes, given conformation flaws and the horse’s job and conditioning, this takes a very very long time, but it does happen.
chiropractic practice is not a magical one time cure for problems. it’s a form of physical therapy. it seems as though your expectations are far too high of chiropractic work.
I just disagree with the basis of this entire argument entirely. I think you drank the kool aid of the late 90s where if it was “out”, you put it back in. If it was a different length, you made it equal. If it was tight, you loosened it. Bodies are way more resilient than this gives them credit for. Compensation is smart, not a dirty word. You see some absolutely incredible and very effective compensatory techniques in amputees, patients with CP, and many other disorders. If it becomes pathological, there are ways to fix it, but manipulating is not one of them. That’s akin to bailing out a boat with a bucket. Also, “resetting” a joint (not actually sure what you mean by that, but I’m assuming you are referring to manipulation) does very little at all for the biomechanics and arthrokinematics of a joint. You have to have a very good understanding of both to use manipulation, but you aren’t fixing either one with it.
There are people in the world who do great body work on horses, but they don’t do it in a way that makes no sense and uses excessive amounts of time and money. A good practitioner will watch the horse move, do a functional analysis, provide the owner with a detailed description of what movements are causing the pathology (the word “out” means nothing, and should be a red flag), and create a plan of care that is horse and rider based, not “I’ll need to see you 2x a week for the next 10 weeks” based. And for every 1 great chiro I have ever met, there are 5 more trying to pay off their summer homes in the San Juans. All I’m saying is, be informed. There are a lot of people who will take your money and very few who actually know what they are doing.
THANK YOU!!! I have seen so many quacks and only one real deal horse chiropractor. The real deal one also does people. The quacks are all the same… “Oh, he’s out here and here and here” .. crack crack crack. Done. But it will only take 20,000 more appointments to deal with the real problem. The real deal guy does not need you to tell him what the horse’s issues are, or even see him work or lunge. He looks at the horse from all angles and touches the horse then tells you what the horse’s behaviors are. He is always correct. He then adjusts the horse and recommends exercises, stretches and maybe vitamins/minerals for the horse and calls it good. He also does accupuncture and works hand in hand with the vet and farrier. One very important thing is that he will check a horse out and tell you that everything is fine if it actually is. No work, no charge.
I understand you are quite knowledgable about your craft and that you are enthusiatistic about what you are learning. However, I think you are getting a little over the top about the “out” thing. Your love of “.50″ words is quite obvious, and we should all be impressed. But, I live in the real world where most folks haven’t had the benefit of your education nor do they really want to be lectured when their horse is being adjusted or manipulated, whichever you prefer. Most people have a basic understanding that if their horse is “out” something was wrong and it needed attention. Should they want the technical information, they can certainly ask and should get it. But to insinuate that every chiro who uses that particular vocabulary is suspect is ridiculous. If someone is using a certified animal chiropractor, asks questions, gets answers that satisfy them and get good results – the vocabulary is what it needs to be for comprehension. I am an intelligent person, with a few college degrees(not that those make me intelligent) but if my vet, chiro or doctor spoke to me in very technical terms, my eyes would glaze over. Bedside manner and the ability to make people understand on their level are more important than avoiding a particular word. Should people do their homework yes, that is how you find a quality vet, massage therapist or chiro. But just because the word “out” is used, I don’t think you need to turn and run. I don’t even think it’s a red flag, I think it’s just common speech.
I do occasionally use chiropractics for my horse and for myself, but like many other things I don’t consider it the CURE. I have also used surgery, medication, exercise, diet and PT. Sometimes I use them alone, sometimes I use them with another treatment. I have found that often the best results are found by using more than one treatment. Funny, in fact my Doctor, my Chiro and the place where I have gone for PT often refer me to each other. (Back issues are something I have personal experience with) I think it serves everyone better if we learn there is merit in many things that are not perfect and use the assets that each may have. These things are called “a practice” for a reason.
Thanks. You have a lot of good points. Back pain is such a frustrating and complex issue, I speak from experience as well. If a chiro can help, I will gladly yield to them, or work with them if they don’t suck. But I still think “out” is a stupid word and I refuse to use it. (Stomps foot.)
I spend 97% of my time talking to other students and faculty in my program right now, and I forget that I get so heavy on the lingo. My bad. For me and almost everyone around me, it really is everyday language. I really need to work on that, because I know exactly that “glazed over” look you are talking about. My fiance is starting to really get the hang of that. I will work on it and organize my thoughts better next time.
This is a great topic! For the inexperienced rider I am I really like learning new things especially if it can help me be a much better rider. My horse, Cody, doesn’t have very many bad vices, but the one he does have is yanking the reins out of my hands especially if we’re running. (It’s really been killing my hands lately) He’s had this issue for a while and we’ve tried to solve it, but not much seems to work. First we pulled teeth to see if it were a mouth problem, but after he healed up that didn’t seem to work. We then got him a bit-less bridle (not a hackamore(sp?), but something that works with pressure points on the horse’s polls) and that worked only within an arena. Now we have a snaffle bit with some sort of non-pull system. I honestly don’t know what it’s called because a professional horse woman I know put it together for me. It works to a point, but the issue is still there. And since my last jumping show I had to take it off to compete and I’ve lost it since. I’ve had 3 different trainers working with me and this horse and we haven’t really come to a conclusion as to what it is. I’ve kinda chalked it up to bad behavior, but this topic has piqued my interest again. What would be something that would create bad bit manners on a horse? Why does running itself make him want to bolt and take off with me?
First question, does he do this with everyone or just you?
Yanking/rooting is usually a response to too much pressure from the hands (or a history of this, like a lesson horse who has had to tolerate a lot of bad riding). It takes two to pull. When you’re riding in an enclosed arena and he yanks, throw your hands forward and DROP him. Lean back and put your heels down while you do it, because he’s expecting to hit resistance and he may stumble. If you need to slow down, circle to slow down rather than pulling on both reins. One drill you can do is to put him into a circle every time he gets strong. When he returns to a controlled canter, let the circle get larger. When he starts to rev up again, back to the circle. What bothers me about what you wrote is it sounds like the problem is being addressed with changes of gadgetry rather than retraining the horse so that he doesn’t have the habit.
And I’d stop jumping for now. Seriously. A horse who is yanking the reins out of your hands and doing his own thing isn’t safe over fences and I don’t want to hear that you got hurt. Get the flat work solid first.
This is so true. My horse likes to snatch the reins. I know I created this situation. When he got strong, I would get strong back to the point that we were having a pulling contest on the reins. I always lost. It would piss me off and the more frustrated I got, the more I’d get in his face. It got to the point where he would snatch the reins, in what I believe was a defensive measure, to preempt what he knew was coming from me. New trainer, better plan. She has worked with me on softer hands. Her voice is in my head all the time saying, “Now soften, now put him back together, now soften, now put him back together, now soften…” It hasn’t happened overnight, but we are both getting better at it. The softer I get, the softer he gets. It’s like magic! Too bad I’m such a slow learner.
Hey, it’s challenging to ride a strong horse and everybody’s first instinct is to grab a hold when they feel like they may be losing control. But you’re learning what works…give and take, don’t let them lay on your hands. It’s not that you can never pull on the reins, it’s that you can’t JUST pull. And of course learning to use your seat to slow the horse both works great to slow the horse, and helps you keep from being pulled forward and off balance.
Yes! The “slowing the horse down with my seat” has also been a new concept. And it’s taken me a while to get my head around it, because I think of my seat and legs as aids to move them forward. (Me: bang bang banging with my leg to the point the horse is dull to it). But with encouragement from my trainer, I have learned that when I close my upper leg and follow with my seat, he comes back to me. It’s another miracle. When I focus and do this, I get a nice controlled rolling canter and I nice transition into the trot. As you can see, I’ve had to relearn everything! Thank you!
I love hearing, too, that people have trainers that are working for them. It’s not always the person with the best show record – it’s the person who can explain things to you in a way so that it makes sense and you can start doing it yourself.
@FHOTD
Thanks so much for the impute! I’ll try doing dropping the reins like you suggested. And I haven’t been jumping him lately. I only jump when I have a trainer with me. What I’ll probably need to do is find a trainer to help me with this problem over this summer. And unfortunately I cannot tell you if it’s only me that he does this with because I’m the only on who rides him, which probably doesn’t help at all with this current problem.
Don’t drop the reins, ha ha, hang on to them but throw your hands forward so that Mr. Yanky doesn’t have anything to yank on. Takes 2 to have a tug of war. If you give me a major metro area you live near, someone here may have a suggestion for a great trainer.
Another thing to consider is a fear issue. My friend’s Morab gelding had issues with galloping; he’d lose his mind. At first he would do it at a fast trot, but my friend wasn’t worried; she knew she could ride as fast as he could trot so she just stuck with him and eventually he figured out that nothing was after him and he began to realize that a fast trot was OK. Fortunately she had room enough to do this safely.
But when he started it at a canter she decided she’d send him to a local trainer who was younger and more limber, so he could do the same at that gait. Of course, the trainer was used to mostly QH and out of shape horses; this distance-fit Morab was a bit of an eye-opener. But he loved it, and meanwhile the horse realized again that the speed wasn’t anything to be afraid of. Not that my friend wanted to ride him that fast, but if she put him into a canter she wanted it to stay a canter.
So if the horse is only doing it at a run, besides pain try to see if he also seems to be afraid something’s after him. They are prey animals after all.
From my favorite trainer: The Rein Snatcher
I’m sorry, I found that guy sexist and a bit snarky about English riders.
I had to force myself not to close the video after the first “while just standing around talking or gossiping” comment. I had already read the page you linked first (watched the video second) and been offended by a few things he wrote such as:
“…worst culprits seem to be the kid horse/pony clubber or mum’s trail horse…”
“…a common thread of inexperience in a lot of these riders…”
“Riders’ are just standing around having a gossip…”
Why does he point out mum’s trail horse? And then go on to talk about the pony clubbers AND mum’s having a common thread of inexperience? Why single out women? Why not say something like “the weekend trail rider”?
And then “They are brainwashed by the English riding system…” Hmm… a little judgmental on that one if you ask me.
And yes, I realize he’s Australian, and those terms (“gossip”, etc.) are used slightly differently in North America, but he does say “talking or gossiping” in the video, which backs up my theory.
You may have to crank up the volume on this, but check out this video that explains Mary Wanless’s theory on ‘Arm Cuffs’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYXOcBAJhpg My horses yank on my arms a lot & part of it is due to my unconscious innate behavior of pulling on the reins with my arms. (They just pull back, and since they have a lot more strength than I do, they always win.) Basically, in this video Mary is explaining to engage the lat muscles underneath the shoulder blades. The feeling is more like you’re pushing against someone’s hand with a fist. You also have to keep a strong core (she explains this by saying to ‘pull your stomach in to make a wall, & push your guts against the wall). If you pull or hold your arms back with the biceps, you will loose the engagement of the lats, so you know you you’re using your arms to pull. If your horse roots against you with your lats & core engaged, he won’t be able to pull you out of the saddle as easily. His yanking will just serve to get the energy to drive through your lats & core to you seat, basically driving you deeper into the saddle instead of pulling you out of the saddle. He won’t be so happy to hit the end of the immobile reins. I’ve tried this with my 17-hand rooter, and it does work. One has a lot more strength with a martial-arts like core, than with just the arms and bicep strength.
My horse started to get funny when saddling up and unloading off a trailer. At first I thought he was being naughty because he would ride fine. He started to get worse so I got him checked. His saddle wasn’t fitting anymore and he was sore from it. Both issues were attributed to saddle fit/soreness.
One chiro visit, one massage, one new fitted saddle and he was good as gold.
I felt like the worst person in the world because he kept up being a good boy under saddle even though he was really hurting.
Lesson learned!
Those videos are horrible. Especially the poor grey, it is clear they are not happy little ponies. I’m studying to be a vet tech and I have worked in racing stables and show barns. At one barn, I managed to convince one owner to scratch his stallion because he couldn’t figure out why he was lame (no sores, heat, cuts or bruising). I suggested deep tissue injury to the shoulder when the horse was playing in his paddock, the owner just brushed me off and called the vet. A few xrays later and a vet bill, it was deep tissue damage in the shoulder, like I’d said. The horse couldn’t be ridden for 2 weeks.
I broke in a lovely little black gelding last year. At two and a half he was saddle broke (I didn’t ride him, I just wanted to teach him). He’d come in from the paddock and get brushed and his treats as usual. But one morning, I put the saddle on and he was really upset about something. He was shifting from side to side, tail clamped and his ears were pinned. I couldn’t figure it out. So I pulled the saddle off and carefully checked for sore spots. 10 minutes later, I found what it was. A very tiny tick was attached to his wither, I missed it when I brushed him because it was so small. I removed the tick and worked him without a saddle that day. Next day, he was fine.
Another colt I broke in at the stable where I worked (I would buy this horse if I could, I am in love!) He was lovely to break in, great attitude. And to prove his great attitude was this. When he had the bit in his mouth, I had no indication from him he was uncomfortable. He was fat as a hippo. Because he was broken in, I got his teeth done. And I was horrified when the vet showed me his mouth. He had some caps and some serious ulcers in there. I could not believe this unbroken colt just went along with his work even though his mouth hurt. I had NO sign from him whatsoever. I felt awful, like I had failed him. His teeth got fixed and I had to hose his mouth out twice a day. I gave him two weeks off for his mouth to heal.
Last one I can think of. A dressage mare I was working with once had a sore mouth. She was a princess, this thing. But once you figured her out and she knew you, she was nice to work with. When she was in season, she was not rideable. She’d hollow out when I’d try to deepen my seat. But one morning I went to put her bridle on and she threw her head. Now, that was strange. She’d do that when I wormed her. But normally, she’d pick the bit from my hand. With a little bit of a struggle, I opened her mouth and she had a sore right where the bit would sit. Not sure if it was a bit of hard feed or what, it wasn’t deep but clearly it was sore. And she was telling me her mouth was sore and didn’t want the bit in there. She had to be worked so I just lunged her in her halter which she was fine with.
The point is, it isn’t just horses that try to tell people things. I love working with animals, they do talk to you, just not in English. I know when my animals are sick or upset because they let me know. People really need to pay attention to what their animal is trying to say. At a racing stable I worked at, I did the same eight boxes every morning before saddling the horses. I’d check each horse for how much they had eaten and drank. One stallion was laying down when I got to the barn, not a worry, he usually did lay down and it was 3.30am. When I got to his box half an hour later, he was still down. He had eaten his dinner and drank the normal amount of water.
So I checked him and tried to get him up, he didn’t want to. His gums were pale and he just didn’t look right. I went and told my boss to call the vet. It was colic, but we caught it so early, he got off lightly.
These are all excellent examples!
Another great one from John O’Leary: Horse Mouthing and Dentistry
I’ve actually been thinking about this topic a lot lately – I’m not too good at identifying pain in a horse (unless the horse is, you know, lame or really playing up).
We have a mare who fits a few of those symptoms (she’s not being ridden and hasn’t been for quite a while now, so no, I’m not riding a sore horse), but I can’t find a reason for pain – she has not got any girth sores, she displays these symptoms even when she’s not tacked up, so I don’t think it has anything to do with that. She has had her teeth floated. Her feet are fine. It’s not female issues. There is no girth sores and she gets a very good grooming every day. She is actually well behaved, it’s just that she pins her ears a fair bit and has a tendency to travel with her head turned to the side – I actually believe that this is mostly due to her poor training (she’s being retrained) because she doesn’t seem to be in any pain (but like I said, I’m not the expert). She is also perfectly normal while cantering around the paddock with her friends, but when you go to lunge her she seems to dislike it, although I must say, I can certainly see a big improvement with her since I have been training her – she seems to be pinning her ears less and has cooled off a lot. She IS a bit overweight, but we are working on it – she is an easy keeper, the vet has been out to do a blood panel and everything came back fine internally, she’s not lame and she doesn’t have a painful response when pressure is applied to her back, which are all factors making me think it’s more of a training issue.
My gelding has also started to get a bit funny about being haltered and bridled – this I do believe could be due to pain. I think it’s possible that he was pinched (behind the ears) and as a result has decided he does not like to be bridled anymore. There is nothing behind his ears to indicate he was pinched by it and it fits him well – but I think even a one off experience with a young horse can make give them an aversion to certain things. For instance, the same gelding is terrified of locusts. Why? I was riding him one day and a HUGE swarm of locusts flew up without warning, he took off, tripped over, got up and then bucked me off. Since then, he despises them. He also disliked being girthed up for a while, because a girth we had (a shitty girth that we threw out) pinched him. He got over it and is beginning to get better with the halter now, but my point is that even a one time experience can impact a horse’s attitude – generally the horse will get over it after a little work, though, if that is the case. Repeatedly being exposed to a shitty rider or abusive techniques though, I think has a long lasting impact – which is my personal opinion with the above mentioned mare.
What I don’t understand though, is those people above – when my gelding bucks I think the following:
“Did something spook him?”
“Did something hurt him?”
If it’s neither of those then my guess is that he is just testing me or feeling fresh, because he’s only young. I personally think gut feelings go a long way with this kind of thing. If the horse bucks more than once in a session, I tend to think there is a problem. Obviously, a horse SHOULDN’T buck, but honestly, I find that a lot will every now and then, for different reasons, but when a horse is repeatedly misbehaving in a session (like the black and white horses), I would be trying to locate the pain. .
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
Has mare #1 been adjusted? Carrying the head to one side isn’t a usual result of bad training. Being behind the bit or throwing the head would be a more typical result of bad training/riding. Anytime anything is one-sided, I suspect an adjustment is needed.
It could also be an ear infection. If t was a long term one you would not see any external indication- it would be worth having a Vet shove one of those thingy’s with a light on it down her ears….
She throws her head as well and used to slip her tongue – I thought it was more a way for her to try and avoid the bit. At first I thought it was an issue with one of her eyes, but there was nothing wrong with either eye.
I will look into getting her an adjustment and also have her ears looked at – thank you Fugly and Kirri =)
Pain is something I have to be really careful about with my mare. She will keep going right through the pain until she can’t take it anymore. I found this out when she reared over twice with me before I figured out that her back hurt. I know it’s hard to believe that she doesn’t give it away like these horses and I have figured out little things that help me see that pain is an issue, i.e. stiff, unrelaxed ears. She doesn’t pin them, but in the walk they don’t flop when she is sore. But mostly, I just give her a pretty thorough body check on a daily basis, stretching her legs, running my fingers down her back, watching her reaction to brushing and hoof cleaning.
But then again, that’s how she is in everything, she’ll work herself into a panic about what I want from her before she’ll just stop trying.
IMNSHO, mares are tougher than geldings. I have met many mares who will just keep on powering through everything and never quit. It’s great that you know your mare so well to pick up on her subtle cues.
In video #2 I don’t know what is hurting the horse worse… his back or his poor mouth after that girl gets done using it to keep herself in the saddle. In warmups at shows I see a LOT of hunter/jumper horses with similar I-want-to-kill-you expressions and mini back “humps” when they are asked to change their leads. Why their riders/trainers believe the horse should look like that is beyond me. Does the same horse crank his tail and try to buck when he is doing changes in his own field? I don’t think so.
Good point about watching them in the field!
It looks to me as if Horse No. 2 has a stifle problem — sticky stifles, especially the right hind leg. It shows up in a lot of warm bloods on the jumper circuit.
As for the last horse, is that a tie-down? Western saddle, draw reins, chambon-type martingale! My guess is one of the more extreme show classes (paso fino, etc). Horse is fefinitely not impressed. I’ll bet the rider’s back is curved forwards in a “C”…
My own experience with constant pain in a horse involved a very willing little appy who could not work ‘on the bit’ to my coaches satisfaction. I finally traced the problem to her hocks! The head would go down when standing, but bob right up when walked off. Coach tried everything bad: draw reins, harsh bit, etc…. Just made things worse.
My gelding is in training and is having some “stiffness” issues with his hocks/stifles and that is what they feel like is going on with his “head” issues! I hadn’t heard of that before, so it was nice to see it on here today!
Yes! I thought the same thing—my daughter’s sainted QH Melanie was our horse only because she’d suffered a career-ending stifle injury while working in a cattle pen. She was being used for roping, and pivoted the wrong way one day, presumably separating her left stifle. She was examined by a vet and recommended treatment was layoff up to a year. Being a working ranch horse, that was not an option with her prior owner, but it was with us.
Anyway, Melanie did not do well in stalls. We thought we were being kind bedding her down like a princess, but she’d come out of that stall so sore, so gimpy. I taught my daughter (who weighed no more than 75 pounds at the time) to take Mel out for walks and for gentle lunging before riding, or better yet, turn her loose in the arena or grassy area so she could move at liberty prior to being saddled. While Mel was stretching, my daughter would go clean the stall.
It’s my experience if a horse gets more pissy as you are riding it, there IS a physical problem. I honestly don’t think there is a horse out there that thinks about how much fun it is to get more pissy and harder to ride as the ride/day progresses.
“”As for the last horse, is that a tie-down? Western saddle, draw reins, chambon-type martingale! My guess is one of the more extreme show classes (paso fino, etc). Horse is fefinitely not impressed. I’ll bet the rider’s back is curved forwards in a “C”…”"
Um…. you don’t have much exposure to the Paso (Paso Fino) world, do you? (Extreme show classes? Really??? What, pray tell, does that entail?????)
Anyway, that’s DEFINITELY not a Paso or a Paso class. The tack itself is a screaming clue, firstly.
( Tiedowns, martingales, drawreins… all prohibited. Nor are twisted wire snaffles commonplace or really considered acceptable. Plus, that saddle in the background wouldn’t be considered acceptable as it’s sporting too much “bling.”)
Secondly, that horse certainly is NOT a Paso…
Tip #637 for recognizing a Paso Fino show horse… you ain’t gonna find a six inch bridlepath on any of them. You’re generally unlikely to even see a bridlepath wider than their headstall.
Plus, they don’t have that sad an excuse for a mane and forelock.
Looks like an NSH western pleasure class or something along those lines.
(I’m going by the breed appearance of the horse and the posture/expectation of headset from the rider.)
I think you’re right that it’s a NSH. It was at Scottsdale and there are a lot of them there.
I don’t know, but anytime I can’t get a horse to canter quietly without bucking and cranking his tail, I always put them over a few dozen jumps. It really fixes the problem. (sarcasm inserted)
It’s amazing, isn’t it?
FLATWORK FIRST…you need to have that solid FIRST.
I don’t get the appeal of tearing around out of control hoping the horse jumps instead of crashing. Are ya nuts?
I’ve never ridden a horse that was in pain, but I learned a good lesson when a horse I was taking to pasture started twirling and backing from me. I thought he was just being ornery so I turned him in a few circles – until I realized there were ants under my feet. They had been biting his ankles. I immediately walked him through clean grass to brush them off before I put him in the pasture, but I felt terrible for not only not recognizing that he was in pain, but holding him in the same place for even longer and allowing him to be stung even more.
But the lesson was an important one. When a horse starts acting up you cannot immediately assume it is a behavioral problem – you have to eliminate all possible physical problems first.
I know I write about him a lot but it’s amazing what I learned.
So my first horse was a 17.2H warmblood, rumored to have come from an event barn down in MA. He was brought to Maine by a horse dealer, who sold him to a Dressage rider that was (ironically) training with the trainer I am currently with. He would spook and bolt over nothing. And when I say “bolt” I mean he would just be in a flat out gallop, bucking every second or third stride. The spook portion prior to the bolting involved him dropping down on his forehand and pulling his head down, then the head came up practically vertical (so you effectively had no reins) before he started running. I was at a show one day when he did it in the field and someone told me that I was somehow practically laying flat on the horse’s back as he was bucking. He had at some point learned that if he managed to offload the rider or scare the hell out of the rider work would be over.
Three years later I had him x-rayed because I finally had a trainer with a brain that let vets into her barn. Cystic navicular in one front foot with a hole the size of the vet’s pinky and a fractured coffin bone in the other. Pain much? When I heard that I was just astounded that he hadn’t killed me, or at least tried. He was humanely euthanized. Doped up to get him into the trailer (hated trailering too, can’t imagine why) and he died with a mouthful of grass.
These three riders have something in common. GET THE HELL OF THE HORSE’S MOUTH. If your seat is SO bad that you have to hold yourself up with your hands you need to take your stirrups off and be on a lunge line and wait to jump. It astounds me how many jumpers I see that have ZERO control over their horse and are just hanging on but hey, they can count strides up to that 3′ line so that means they can ride.
My second horse, my OTTB was the product of that kind of thinking. Let’s put him in a super severe bit (that we’ll misuse) and kick him over the jump while hauling on his mouth. No mixed signals there. He’d just race as fast as he could to whatever was in front of him and jump it like it was 4′ tall. When I started jumping him my trainer made sure I had silly things like brakes and steering before we started jumping. Know what I wound up with? An OTTB that would do a 2′ course without coming out of a trot and could stop on a dime after any jump. A safe, sensible jumper that was under control on the course? NO!
And the first rider’s trainer – I had one like that. Let’s pack six people in a lesson so five of them can stand around while one actually learns something. That was my trainer who sent me over a line of 3′ verticals when I couldn’t trot without stirrups and lost my stirrups at the canter. Is anyone surprised that I came off when I tried to go over the third one without stirrups? Really?
I am happy with my super awesome trainer of awesomeness. If I ever get ambitious enough to jump my now three year old (after at least three years of ground work – I wouldn’t want to jump him until he was 6 or 7) I know where I’m going!
“And the first rider’s trainer – I had one like that. Let’s pack six people in a lesson so five of them can stand around while one actually learns something. That was my trainer who sent me over a line of 3′ verticals when I couldn’t trot without stirrups and lost my stirrups at the canter. Is anyone surprised that I came off when I tried to go over the third one without stirrups? Really?”
You know I harp on this again and again and again. I know no one ENJOYS doing all that work without stirrups, but it’s better than a visit to the E.R., isn’t it? If you can’t trot and canter without your irons, you are not ready to jump. No, not at all. No, not even X’s. If your kid’s trainer is letting her jump before she can trot and canter without her irons, your kid’s trainer is putting her life at risk. Make it stop. Because anyone who has ever jumped knows how easy it is to lose a stirrup and if you can’t ride without it, you’re toast.
Amen to that. When I learned to ride, way back in 1972, my instructor wouldnt even let you look at a jump until you could walk and trot without irons. Yes, it was boring, but the end result was that I had a velcro butt and thighs of iron and could plant myself in that saddle and basically ride out any bad situation. And my balance was incredible.
My pissy horse situation had nothing to do with pain, but with the fact my first horse was a lesson horse who was basically ridden into the ground by rank beginners. He was so unhappy he began charging the instructors with bared teeth and flat ears while they stood in the middle of the arena and was on his way to auction when we bought him. All it took to get him happy again was a few weeks of pasture turn-out and then being ridden by one person only (me) who was firm but kind and didnt yank all over his mouth. He turned out to be a great all-around pony who was game and could do just about anything except arena work. He absolutely hated being in the arena till the day he died. Cant say I blame him.
My first horse was a lesson horse too – I got him after he broke someone else’s neck. He did not care for her hands. I rode him all over the place in a halter and two lead ropes…back in my courageous teenage years!
I NEED to do more work without stirrups, but the last few weeks I’ve been riding a horse I don’t 100% trust and who likely needs an adjustment (He’s fine about everything except a complete and utter refusal to canter on the left lead no matter what)…I don’t feel QUITE safe on this horse without the irons, although I think we’re almost there. Last week he mentally got the ‘on the bit’ thing and went ‘Hey, you know, this isn’t so bad’ about it instead of hollowing and dropping behind the bit…which is likely why he needs an adjustment if he does.
I freely admit I most recently worked myself without stirrups on the 26 year old.
It’s nice to be able to do it on a horse that doesn’t go OMG A STIRRUP BANGED MY SIDE and scoot forward every time.
My first trainer in Bulgaria had many flaws (no helmets, crappy equipment, etc.), but nobody got stirrups or reins until he was convinced you wouldn’t ruin mouths, hang on by reins, or inconvenience him by hanging yourself on a stirrup (very few riding boots with heels available at the time). He always started by lunging, no stirrups, no reins, grab strap on saddle only, walk-trot. If he didn’t have time to lunge you, you could walk the horse around the arena on a slightly loose rein, and practice short stretches of posting trot (no stirrups, of course).
When he started us jumping, it was on the lunge, from trot, still no stirrups, hands tied loosely behind back so you couldn’t rely on them to balance. Now I think about it, doesn’t sound safe, but it sure worked, and I still tend to fall with a shoulder roll (he made us practice those too). Boy, he could get away with a lot of discipline, being one of about five trainers in the country at the time, and one of two who worked with kids.
Schooling newbies without stirrups or reins is common in Europe and a lost art in the U.S. When I taught, I never gave people reins at the trot until they knew how to post and keep their hands stable, and then they went back on the longe with no reins to learn to canter.
I’m also a fan of just putting the lesson horses in a bitless bridle…saves a LOT of annoyance for the horses.
Because I rode a lot when I was younger, I frequently encourage my daughter’s trainer to do more work without stirrups. My teenage daughter believes it is just one more thing I do to annoy her BUT it has saved her butt more than once already. I’ve also suggested “games” we used to play to improve our riding. My daughter thinks I’m nuts but they do it and it helps them. I’ve also started riding again and will work without stirrups just because I need it. The others think I’m nuts!
Who cares if you’re nuts if you stay on the horse and out of the hospital?
Nuts is jumping fences when you are not tight, secure and balanced on the flat. THAT’S NUTS.
Would like to add that developing the muscles associated with no-stirrup work can help you even in walking. According to my PT and the last orthopedic surgeon I saw, women are particularly prone to lateral patellas because of the more extreme hip, knee, ankle angles associated with “womanly hips” and strengthening the muscles on the inside of your legs (abductors?) keeps the patella in place. I have horrible joints (I’ve been cracking, popping and crunching since I was 15) but I didn’t have to see a PT for them until this year. I also liked doing no-stirrup work (weird, I know but I knew it improved my stability in the saddle and I didn’t want another ER visit). This past summer I didn’t have a horse to ride and had a desk job so I wasn’t using those muscles, and what do I do this fall? Plant and twist in just the wrong way that my patella (which is already hypermobile because of all the issues I have) pinched my meniscus every time I took a step, I could barely handle stairs for 3 months (in which time I saw my PT biweekly to get things in order.)
I just noticed, in that first video, the trainer is strolling around having a smoke.
I agree that horses are never bitchy “for no reason,” but sometimes that reason is simply bad training and previous riders allowing the horse to get away with bad behavior.
So, if you are riding a horse for the first time and someone tells you it can be “bitchy,” how do you know whether it’s in pain or simply trying to annoy/intimidate you in order to get out of work?
As a horseless person who catch rides frequently (and not the kind of catch riding that lands me well-trained show horses! More, “Hey, you want to ride? Widowmaker here could use some exercise – nobody’s been on her in months. Can’t imagine why!”), this is something I struggle with a lot.
Would love to hear tips/ideas/thoughts from others!
It’s hard to know for sure, but remember that a horse is not a complicated animal. They may be lazy but they’re not devious (OK, ponies are devious – bwahahahaha!) Typically if they’re sour under saddle, someone made them that way. Example: I got a mare many years ago that you couldn’t touch with your legs. Any leg pressure resulted in violent tail swishing and pinned ears. She wasn’t sore, but had been to a trainer that I suspected had overdone the spurs. So I simply removed all leg for a couple months….rode with a crop and voice commands, and then slowly reintroduced the leg just touching her and then leg pressure.
One thing I’d do with any horse that I was getting on for the first time is longe a bit first, see if the horse looks sound, see if the horse seems like it’s really one sided (you can definitely tell on the longe). If your barn every has a chiro or masseuse come out, ask them to show you some simple ways to test for soreness. Also, horses will often tell you where they are sore when you groom them. If a horse is fine about the rubber curry on his butt but totally overreacts to it on his back, shoulder, or neck, I’d be suspicious something hurts.
When I catch ride, the first thing I do is give the horse enough rein that it can choose its own position. Then I make sure my hips and legs are easily swinging with the horse’s movement at a nice easy walk. I talk to the horse, and keep my voice low, soft and sort of ‘humming’ if that makes sense. Within reason, I let the horse pick the direction, instead of instantly pushing my wants and needs onto the horse. Once I do all these things, I listen to the horse’s body language and expression. Are its ears busy, or tense? Does it flatten out and ‘swing’ into what is a comfortable walk for it, or is it resistant and tense still? Can I feel any signs that a medium walk is uncomfortable?
As you learn to ride really well, you start finding out that the single best gait to diagnose back and joint problems is the walk. You might miss a stone bruise at a walk, but anything really nasty will show up in their gait, as long as you let them walk on, instead of getting on and instantly ‘riding’ the horse. Also, good riding should improve a horse’s problem if it is psychological. Usually within five to ten minutes a correctly and kindly ridden horse will say, “Wow.. thank you SO much. What are we gonna do today?” if they aren’t hurting.
Having said all that, it is important to make it clear to a horse that you are listening, and they don’t need to ‘shout’. In other words, a horse’s resistance should be mild, not all out hysterical, if they understand you are listening. I don’t put up with ringing tails and pinned ears, nor bucks and dodges back to the barn. They learn it quickly, and learn to tell me more politely when there is a problem. This helps avoid issues like refusals, bucks, runaways, and other drama.
If you do all this, and you still have an angry or fighting horse, you have a real problem that probably needs a professional’s attention. It’s not worth it to try to ride out a horse that hates being ridden.
LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE. You, my dear, are exactly the kind of rider I would put on my horse, the highest compliment in my book.
You know, I started a 300+ post over on COTH about this very thing. I have ruined basically every horse I’ve ridden over the last 6 years…. Honestly, as I scrolled through your blog here, I halfway expected to see me up on it with my video of my gray mare.
They took to bucking, biting, rearing, nearly killing me. One horse went from acting perfectly fine (or should I say, I wasn’t aware of any pain related issues) to EXPLODING in the middle of a ride and I was never able to even sit on her again. Other people could get on her, but not me. I hurt the backs of horse after horse. I had saddle fit evaluated, I worked with trainers (dressage & hunter). I showed them my videos. I told them I don’t know how I did it to these horses, but I was afraid to do it again.
When I finally got up the courage, after 2+ years of consistent hunter lessons that were going well, to buy another horse, I had him 6 months and his back got sore and he went lame (which is something I honestly hadn’t caused before). I tried to utilize the pro trainers I was working with, I asked for help, wanted to know how my riding was causing it. Went to saddle fitters, followed their saddling/padding directions. Nothing helped.
Before that last horse got too far gone, I stopped riding. He is sound now. And his back is no longer sore.
But I will not ride again.
After going to COTH for help, I was inundated with critique about my riding from my YouTube Vids, and was told dozens of problems with my riding that I never knew I had. I had trainers telling me I was doing fine and riding well, and then I had 300 people online telling me I ride like a sack of potatoes, I’m crooked, off balance, hanging on the mouth, hitting too hard in the saddle, riding in a chair seat, on and on and on and on the list went.
I had a revelation thanks to COTH and now understand why I hurt my horses. I love my horses. And I love to ride. I want to show and go on trail rides and hack in the arena. Hurting my horses was never my intention. Never. And I tried for 6 years to get professional help of all sorts to figure out how I was hurting my horses. I knew it was me, not the saddle or a mare’s bitchy attitude, but I could never unearth the problem until COTH helped me see the light.
I’m working on issues that I have with myself that attribute partially to my poor riding – losing weight and working out. I’ve lost 16 pounds so far in 4 weeks, and have been doing pilates and walking every day. So I can fix some of the “me issues” on the ground. However, my riding issues are never going to be fixed.
I will not ride a horse again.
My new horse that I just got a few months ago, now that he’s sound and back out of pain, has just started (two days ago!) into ground driving training. I’m doing it myself until I can find & afford a local trainer to complete the training and hitch him.
Hopefully we can show in driving someday. I’d like to explore the idea of doing marathons. But for the sake of the horse, I will not sit on him again. Not even for a trail ride.
I always tried to learn well. I always tried to use gentle bits, light hands, well fitted tack. I always worked with trainers that I had confidence in. I tried to learn the sport and the animal. I worked for 10 years as an equine anesthetist after getting a vet tech degree. Horses were my love, my life, my heart. It makes me sad to the bottom of my heart that I spent 20 years pursuing a hobby that I literally got worse at and damaged the horses that I loved as I went. I feel so bad for my horses, and I feel bad for horses like the ones in your blog post- because they may go and on and on and on working in pain and discomfort and their riders/owners/trainers may never notice or care to do anything about it. I think that’s cruel.
My horses had to give me a HUGE wake up call – they got aggressive with me to get the point across. One bucking wildly like a rodeo bronc the moment I sat on him, one attacking me on the ground if I even looked like I was going to get on her. It was a rude awakening to a major problem with my riding. But I have my answers now and know how to help my horses better in the future.
I’ll always own horses (finances willing….lol), and I’ll always love horses. But I can’t ride them. Not without causing pain and torture to them.
While giving up riding, the sport I love, is not ideal for me, it is ideal for my horses. I’m a terror to horses and now I know exactly why and how to resolve that problem. My driving horses have never complained about me, so I think my new horse will like his new discipline once he’s trained up.
BTW- I am in Chicago area and looking for driving education, training, and anything else anyone has to offer.
http://www.kshai1715.wordpress.com
I have to wonder if whatever it is you are doing (and I’m guessing it’s your own body stiffness which is causing soreness in the horse) could be fixed with something like pilates and yoga? Worth a try, anyway. But I think it’s awesome that you saw the pattern, didn’t blame the horses and are smart enough to want to learn to drive so that you can get your horsey fix.
Whatever you’re doing with your body can definitely be fixed but I’m suspicious that you are the one with the soundness problem.
I’m thrilled that you have persisted in owning and working with horses, even if you have switched from riding to driving. Driving has just as much value (in some cases much more!) as riding.
That said, I’ve never been so tempted in my life to invite someone out to ride or take lessons. I’m appalled that your experience with trainers and instructors was so bad. I’ve never understood why some trainers just flat don’t see what is going on, and why there are instructors who take money for lessons in which the best they can manage is to stand in the middle of the ring and shout banalities like, “Put your heels down!” and “Sit up straight!”
A good teacher would have seen your problems very early on. You might not have listened, but you should have been given the choice of listening or not– instead of lying to you so they could get your money.
It sounds like you need to learn to ride all over again from the beginning, rather than give up completely.
Depending where you are in Chicago, I currently work with a really good dressage trainer in the NW suburbs who I’m sure would be able to help you. You’d probably spend months on the longe line, but she’s really good at fixing position issues (I’m currently working on some myself). If you’re interested, let me know.
To the woman who’s giving up riding: I think I want to see you ride again as much as everyone else here, so I’ll throw in my 2 cents:
Have you only ridden English? Have you tried a Western saddle?
First of all, I think the yoga/pilates is Wonderful. You just might re-learn how to find your center and be able to balance so much better. If you haven’t heard of James Shaw, check him out: http://www.shawtaichi.com/
But I mention a Western saddle because of my own issues and limitations. I rode strictly English most of my life until my late 20s. Since about my late teens, my body really IS crooked; my ribcage is twisted, my hips are a mess, I have arthritis in my spine, dizziness, I could go on and on. Countless wrecks jumping (which I always sucked at), getting on green OTTBs, etc. After I took up reining and other Western sports, I felt a lot better on a horse. My confidence blossomed. I still have issues, especially collapsing my hip, but I found having different tack made my horses a hell of a lot happier. I started and trained a Very sensitive saddlebred dressage horse in a Wintec Western saddle, but showed him in traditional dressage tack. We both did so much better with the Western saddle — I wish I could have shown him in it! Western saddles disperse the weight over more area, which I think is the key. My weight is all over the place when I ride because of my issues and I think it kept my horse from going nuts. Don’t get me wrong — I also found there still was plenty of contact and had no trouble teaching lateral movements, started changes … basically did everything in a Western saddle using my seat that I did in a dressage saddle; I just had to “tone it down” when in the dressage saddle because my seat aids came across A LOT louder. I really like this site: http://www.cowboydressge.com
It’s amazing how many people online will tear your riding apart and shred you but no one will ever tell you what you’re doing right.
Your trainers obviously suck. I had one of those. I rode with her for SEVEN YEARS and learned less from her than I learned from my current trainer in six months.
I used to use my hands to balance myself, have a chair seat instead of dropping my heels down. I’m very stiff in the back because the lower curve of my back is somewhat excessive, I tend to lean on my right hip and suck up my left leg (usually dropping my stirrup) and it took me a LONG time to learn how to post correctly. Also spent a lot of time leaning forward, hunched over the pommel. I know I looked like a train wreck because I have the pictures.
You know what REALLY helped me? I did a centered riding “program”. I learned how to sit in the MIDDLE of my saddle and once you find your correct balance things will fall into place. Find a trainer (see if you can find someone who does dressage) with a lesson horse so you can sit on a lunge line. Do some stretches to loosen your back up, lengthen your legs with no stirrups.
I understand that you feel really guilty that you caused those back problems in your horses but giving up doesn’t fix the problem. You had some crappy trainers who took your money but didn’t teach you. Find someone good who will be worth the money you’re spending.
And while we’re on guilt, my first horse must have been in excruciating pain from his front feet, he desperately needed a chiropractor and was even on again, off again lame and I STILL rode him. I think everyone here has done something stupid out of ignorance – the important thing is once you know better not to do it anymore.
Yes, I would look at you as one who may need an adjustment. When I was 19 my old show horse bucked me off- HARD- I ended up in physical therapy for 3 months for back pain. My therapist was awesome, she also rode horses, so when she found out that my pelvis was misaligned, she let me know all of the ways that a misaligned pelvis can affect the horse. “I bet you have a hard time getting your horse to pick up the right canter lead, huh?” Yep. Sure do. Freaking amazing.
She taught me how to pop my own pelvis back into alignment if it comes out (if I don’t keep up my core strength it slides out of alignment because the muscles aren’t there to support it) and I have a list of exercises that she gave me to maintain it. So I absolutely agree with Cathy 100% that you might want to consider looking into YOUR “soundness” issues. A lot of times we have them and have no idea that something might be off a little tiny bit and affecting our horses a lot (I had no clue that my pelvis wasn’t straight).
The weight loss and yoga and pilates will all do wonders. My therapist AND my dressage trainer have also both recommended bellydancing as a way to work my core muscles, get a sense of rhythm, and learn how to loosen my hips so my hips can follow my hose independently without the rest of my body interfering.
Don’t give up on something that you love doing just yet!
I struggled for a long time under a trainer to get my mare to pick up the right lead under saddle, she could do it just fine on her own. I figured out my hips couldn’t do it, I’m too one sided. Plus she had an old right hip injury. On trail if it was the correct lead for terrain I would just 2 pt. Saved her back and let her use herself safely.
I learned to get off the horse if it is acting that shitty. That one rider kept on going just to prove she could. Watching those vids I was wondering if these are the poor horses on Craigs List.
I remember your post on COTH. It takes a lot of guts to do what you did, I can’t remember any other instance where someone was so brutally honest with themselves about their riding. *applauds*
It’s such a shame that trainers often don’t what they are hired to do. They want to keep clients and make money, so nobody has the guts to say to somebody “we need to start from scratch with you.” There is no reason why you can’t ride again, you’ll just need to find an honest trainer and be ready to re-learn. Hell, everybody has to go back to basics at some point and unlearn bad habits.
Also, I don’t want to start a whole weight issue debate, but being lighter will definitely help you. There are some hella good bigger riders out there, but for the most part, it really is a hindrance, and can really get in the way of learning how to go with the horse. I found that gaining 20 lbs negatively impacted my riding – it was suddenly a lot harder to sit the trot.
In my personal philosophy, a good chunk of riding well is getting out of the horse’s way (ie moving with him, not hindering his movement.) That takes a lot of longe lessons, riding without stirrups, etc. before ever trying to “do” something with the horse. It makes me cringe to see riders who are not balanced and do not have an independent seat “doing” stuff to their horses – doing stuff with the reins, trying to bend him, trying to do this and do that – trying to get the horse to do “x” while bouncing around in an attempt at a sitting trot. And meanwhile the trainer stands there the whole time saying things like “more outside rein – that’s it – ok push him forward more – blah blah blah”. That kind of approach never gets anybody anywhere. If the rider can’t ride yet, it will be an endless ugly dance that will eventually result in a lame/soured horse. And I think this is what happened to you. Your instructors failed you by not focusing on the real issues because they didn’t want to hurt your feelings and lose you as a client.
The Spanish riding school has it right. Train the rider first to have an independent seat with longing and no stirrups before attempting anything else. IT MAKES SENSE and is a proven way. But it’s hard to tell a new client that they need to go back to basics. It’s always “but my OLD trainer said I did that fine” or “my OLD trainer let me jump courses, what do you mean I have to go back to crossrails?” It’s not everyday that someone comes to a trainer and says “I need to relearn everything and work on my seat, so put me on the longe for 6 months, please.”
I wish you luck in your weight loss goals and your future horse endeavours. I think the ingredients that a lot of people lack in being able to become betters riders is humility and the ability to be self-critical. When people are egotistical they shut themselves out of learning. Best of luck to you.
The answer to “but my OLD TRAINER…” is, so why are they your old trainer? If you were THAT happy, why did you leave? Oh, you weren’t getting the results you wanted? OK. So let’s try it my way instead and see if we get different results.
I second (third, fourth?) a people chiro. I go for weekly adjustments and I can tell you it is a tremendous help. At work, I often pinch my phone betwen ear and shoulder, my desk height is just enough too high enough to cause my shoulders to end up around my ears, crabby bosses and crabbier clients cause me to sometimes hold myself tensely. WhenI brace against the resulting pain, it is very hard to stay loose and relax in the saddle.
May I recommend Leslie Sansone’s walking DVD’s? I know it sounds kind of funny, walking in place in your living room but she incorporates leg lifts (great for abs!), side steps and some other very easy-to-follow moves. I cannot keep up with the aerobics chickies in their little exercise tights and white tennies but I can keep up with Leslie LOL She also instructs you in perfect posture. Ear over shoulder, shoulder over hip. Viola! My riding instructor may gets after me for some things but never ever for poor posture. The FIRMs Pilates DVD with the stretchy exercise band is great too, especially for leg work (lengthening, toning), and core and arms.
As I’ve been doing the pilates workouts, I have come to realize I have practically zero flexibility in my left side. That’s also the side I leaned towards when I ride. Doing the exercises on the right is hard, but I can do it. Left side is brutal and I have hard time stretching, but I’m working on it.
I think the biggest thing for me is that although I knew I was heavy, I never realized how far out of shape I was, and how that affected my riding. I knew I couldn’t run a marathon, but I still thought I was OK for riding. Doing the pilates now has helped me to see how badly locked up half my body is.
http://www.kshai1715.wordpress.com
You sound SO fixable to me. If you were a horse, I’d be like, oh heck of course we can fix that!
Keep up the good work!
I would highly suggest getting yourself checked out with an IMT (Integrative Manual Therapy) therapist. It’s basically a holistic, hands-on way to diagnose/treat dysfunctions, whether that’s pain, you feeling “off”, etc. I was skeptical when I first heard about it, but I’ve seen some really great results with it, to the point where I am now pursuing a degree. My goal is to eventually work with horse/rider pairs specifically in the situation you describe – I really believe they would be able to help you figure out what’s going on and how to address anything that might be hindering you physically, so you could ride again if you wanted to.
This is their main website:
http://www.centerimt.com/
They have a clinic in Chicago, so here’s the contact info for that as well:
CenterIMT Chicago
Balanced Bodies
2001 Midwest Road
Suite 302
Oakbrook IL 60523
(630) 620-9066 phone
(630) 620-8570 fax
CIMTChicago@CenterIMT.com
Whatever you choose to do, huge kudos for doing the right thing in a tough situation. Good luck with your continued horsey pursuits!
What is up with that last picture? Is your horse Hannibal Lecter? Do you really need all that pull on its face?
It looks like draw reins, and a martingale on a twisted wire snaffle. Yikes.
What western discipline would allow all those on the same face?
This picture looks like it was taken someplace public. Where does this picture come from? I’d really like to know if the person behind the camera is A) horrified B) thinks its pretty . . . The picture quality makes me think B originally.
Twisted wires and common in a lot of western disciplices, along with see-sawing and draw reins or martingales. Mostly at lower end shows, but you see it in breed shows too.
FYI, that pic was from the Scottsdale All-Arabian Show – the largest Arabian breed show in the nation.
Wish I’d seen this before I posted up there.
I was close with the NSH thought, though.
I’d bet $100 that photo was taken in a warm-up ring at a show. You can’t wear that stuff during a class, but you sure see it during warm-up!
Not a western horse. This is a saddleseat horse in schooling equipment.
http://community.livejournal.com/bad_riding/608153.html
It’s from a public FB album of bad things seen at the Scottsdale Arab show.
Quite a few years ago I was working with a Morgan/Standardbred gelding. He was a very nervous, high strung boy, and could be a terror under saddle. My boss being the wonderful trainer she was, decided to try him on an ulcer medicine to see if it would help. The difference was night and day. He went from a cranky horse to a rather happy horse that was manageable (he still was high strung). It was just incredible how quickly his attitude changed just with a little bit of pink, goopy stuffed mixed into his grain!
My husband’s first horse was conformationally challenged to say the least. He was an accidental breeding (stallion got out into the pasture and bred everything while the mare was being boarded – that’s a whole other story) had a short neck, pidgeon-toed as they come, straight shoulder, BUT he was a really flashy color – LOL. Anyway he belonged to my MIL and she gave him to my husband at 6. We started him under saddle with a good local trainer at age 6, and my husband continued to take lessons with our riding instructor. “Smoke” had some quirkiness to his personality but overall, he was a willing horse. Except on that right lead, then it was ears back, tail going, slam bam maybe I’ll crossfire. We had never had a horse with this issue, nor had we ever taken a horse to a chiro but our riding instructor kept after my husband to take him. The equine chiro in our area at the time was Sharon Willoughby. Finally our instructor told my husband, “Take him and if it doesn’t make a difference, I’LL pay for it!”
Smoke went to see Sharon. She adjusted him and explained that his hip was very “out”, gave us exercises to do with him to help build muscle to hold it in and told us to call her when he needed adjusted again – because we would know right away. My husband was not convinced and went home thinking…sure, ok, fine. 2 days later he loped him for the first time after the adjustment. Four strides of the habitual “crabby” and then it was like someone flipped a switch…Smoke dropped his head, relaxed and loped off beautifully. I can’t explain how literally it was that blatant! Obviously, the riding instructor never paid for the adjustment. My husband and Smoke religiously did the trot work and exercises to help build the muscle but one day about 2 months later……the monster returned….yup…it was time for another adjustment, and he told us just like Sharon said he would. This time Smoke wasn’t the only horse to get adjusted, we took the rest of our crew along too. My old mare was dead asleep with her nose on the ground after her adjustment! It took 3 adjustments for Smoke that summer to keep the hip in, 2 the next and after that we just had all the horses done spring and fall, or as needed.
This happened a long time ago, Sharon moved and we have had a few chiros since. Currently I am blessed that my ex sister-in-law(I like her much better than the BIL I am stuck with!) is a vet, but also a certified equine chiro. I don’t think it can fix everything…but a good equine chiro is worth their weight in gold. If you are looking for a good equine chiro check out http://www.avcadoctors.com/ to find a certified chiro in your area. Believe me, your horse will tell you if the adjustment helps….and if it does, they’ll tell you when they need another.
I had the same sort of dramatic turnaround with a mare in the early 90s, when chiro was quite new and everybody looked at me and rolled their eyes that I was having a horse adjusted. But she was a typical case – OTTB that had been cranked one direction only so long that she had multiple painful areas. Removed the pain and voila, different horse.
The first time I ever had chiro done on a horse my horse actually stood up much straighter and looked like he had grown about an inch. He had to have just about everything adjusted, including his face.
I am working on an issue with my mare that continues to befuddle me. She is generally very nice on the ground but is incredibly snarky when putting on or taking off her blanket. Snarky as in pin ears, snake head, try to bite. It is more than just behavioral as all behavioral modalities have failed to change or even slightly improve her behavior. I continue to think she has pain and that is her way of telling me. She is fine under saddle. She is not lame. Completely normal physical findings by two vets. She had chiropractic and finally said that he couldn’t take my money anymore. She has nice feet for a OTTB and me and my farrier are loathe to change anything since she is not lame. She gets massages every three weeks and is always sore in the same places- shoulders, gluts and girth box. We did a sadlle fitting and it fits her good with no additional padding. I use a fleece lined girth. She was treated for ulcers when I first got her and continues to get aloe vera juice. She is turned out 4-8 hours a day and gets free choice hay. She is very pleasant otherwise. She does crib which I think adds to the problem but she does not crib while out. Any ideas on where else to go? I’m to the point that I’m thinking of calling an animal psychic! This one little thing bothers me to no end.
You know what? Sometimes it is static electricity. Sometimes all you have to do is buy static guard and spray the blanket down periodically and that ends the problem. It’s just a thought, but I’ve seen it be the case – the horse is getting shocked so they hate the blanket going on/off.
It just occurred to me THIS winter that my pony’s complete and utter fear of her blanket is actually due to the static electricity, and NOT her head-shyness issues. D’oh! I feel like an idiot and apologized to Pony profusely all winter with carrots every time I’d put on or take off her blanket. But she’s a rock star about it now. I feel horrible.
I found that wiping her down with a dryer sheet before I blanket her gets rid of the static, and also repels dirt! (which is awesome, since she’s mostly white).
Yes, and I can definitely see the Drama pony being reactive about that…she IS called Drama for a reason, LOL!
lol, this is the case with my dog also. Two winters ago I decided to make my own fleece coats for my two lab/husky dogs (not because they really need it, just for fun, and also since the male dog is a weather wimp and doesn’t like going outside when it’s raining.) I thought he might be more OK with going out in the rain if he had a jacket.
But he’s deathly afraid of static shocks, and the fleece always made a static crackle when taking it off, so naturally he hated it. I added a cotton liner which ended the static problem, and now when I say “You wanna put your jacket on?” he gets all excited.
I bought static guard today and will try it; if that is all it takes to keep her happy I will be thrilled! And then miserable that it was just that simple!
YES! I have a pony who is a DOLL – except during the twice yearly high wind/dry weather we get here. One spark and he is unblanketable for weeks! I can finally talk him back into it and he’s fine until the weather comes back, then ping! this is one thing really sets him off!
I don’t know… I get pretty pissy when I take my blankets off in the morning. Plus she’s a TB mare, lord knows she has an opinion. If she’s doing that well otherwise, maybe she just enjoys her nice warm blankies and slightly resents you removing them. One thing my trainer drilled into us was really slowly easing your horse into not having a blanket on. We would take of their quilted blankets and cover them with a fleece cooler while grooming a quarter of them at a time. Then we would tack up, leaving the cooler on over the saddle. Then we would hand walk them around the arena for 5-10 mins to let their muscles warm up. (This also warms your muscles up on a cold day, double bonus.)Then we would pull the cooler back to just cover their butt (a make-shift quarter sheet) and hop on, walking for another few minutes. Then we would pull the cooler all the way off and continue with the warm up at the trot. This really, really helped me with a lot of sensitive TBs over the years. If the horse is spooky you have to be a little careful about pulling a cooler off while sitting on them, but I’ve never had any real problems there, just an occasional “butt-tuck-run… oh, sorry, now I feel stupid” moment or two.
I’d suggest checking the fit of the front of the rug. I see rugs with the chest straps too high under the neck again and again, and it causes pressure and rubs on the chest, shoulders and wither (because when the horse puts his head down, the neck pulls down on the strap and cranks the rug onto the wither). I’ve known horses to be sore and cranky, even downright aggressive like your mare, because of the pain.
The chest strap ought to be no higher than the top of the breast bone (you can usually feel it in between the chest muscles), but if you’re not sure where the right spot is, there’s an easy test – get your horse to put his head right down to grazing position, then place your hand on his chest snugly up against the underside of the neck (without pressing up into his throat). Ask him to raise his head again, and you may be astounded at how much lower down your hand is than the ‘bottom’ of the neck. Rug manufacturers seem to think that horses stand around with their heads raised 24/7, and neglect to take into account the movement of the body in different positions.
If you’re using a rug with fixed chest straps, and the top one is too high, an easy work-around is to cross them over, top to bottom – this creates a sort of self adjusting V-neck effect, moves the point where it crosses the chest down at least a couple of inches, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new rug or moving the straps. I find myself doing this with virtually ALL my rugs these days, and it’s solved rub issues and fixed rugging attitudes again and again.
Claire Vale
Kahurangi Equine Rescue
New Zealand
For the first video, it seems to me that this a lesson horse and the guy is not a trainer properly speaking, or at least not in the US way. Usually those horses never receive chiro work, don’t have properly fitting saddles and live in a stall 24/7 unless they are being used for a lesson or hand grazed by someone.
I do find it is somewhat different from the other videos. You can also see that the girl did not give legs before the jump and therefore the horse did not jump on time and slipped when he tried to stop. The horse is not straight because the girl is keeping him skewed (toward the side of the arena) otherwise he would go much faster. Lesson horses are not dead heads in France, and some of them rush on the jumps like this one.
I have honeslty never heard or seen a Riding Stables (Barn) in Europe, outside of a city and there are still a few, not many but a few, in cities, that did not have proper turnout, ie fields, for their horses. It seems to be more of a US thing that horses are stall kept.
Also, trainers are the same wherever they are, if they are not training, they are not trainers.
There’s a riding school in the middle of Edinburgh that has decent turnout for the horses despite being in an urban environment. I would agree it seems to be a more US thing to keep horses stabled all the time. I’ve only ever come across one yard where the horses were stabled and they literally were in the stable, they came out, were tied up while the box was mucked out and they went back in. That was it for the whole winter!
Not here in France! People think I’m CRAZY to hae my mares on 24/7 pasture board, including my TB mare that I plan to sstart showing (and don’t plan to stall just because I need her to be neat and clean… that’s what brushes are for!) I know of plenty of horses that are in stalls almost all the time, and only ever come out for riding and training. They get no time to just play and be horses, much less time to play and just be horses with other horses. And most of them look sad and sullen, to be honest, if they aren’t cranky and mouthy.
I have even heard trainers suggest to clients (and here I’m talking about European trainers, but not necessarily French) that they should keep their horses stalled so that they have enough energy to work hard in training…
When I lived in the US, the only time I ever kept a horse in a stall was during pony club camp for 2 weeks in the summer, but we rode 3 hours a day and instructors paid attention and made sure we walked them in hand and let them eat grass as much as possible when we didn’t have work to do. Any other barn I have ever been to over there encourages pasture time, at least during the day even if horses are in at night (which is actually the compromise that I prefer.) I’m sure that’s different in big city barns where there isn’t enough space for turnout, and at the track of course they are in stalls, but in the majority of cases… even my grandfather’s expensive warmbloods (he drives) are out together most of the day.
Add “posting her canter” to the list of the first rider’s faults…lol.
Posting the canter is useful in establishing pace in jumpers. This particular video shows a super hot horse that is very rushy with the jumps. Posting helps establish rhythm. Go watch early 90′s show jumping and you see it a lot.
Sort of OT- I’ve been looking for the video where the rider is jumping in competition, loses his stirrups and finishes the round well. Any ideas where I can find it?
The best one is that naked guy in France who does a whole jump course bareback. You have to sign in to Youtube to view it, but it is really amazing. Talk about a great seat… no pun, the guy rides like… I don’t know what, but great. Google “naked horse jumping” and that will show it.
Of course, if you were going to use this as a demonstration for a class of youngsters it would not be good, although in reality, there is nothing obscene about it; you can’t see any “parts.” Talk about a velcro butt… the guy sits that horse like he’s part of it.
I’m glad you chose not to tear into that first girl, because it looks like she is in a lesson. I have been primarily a lesson rider for 14 years (never had my own horse, always riding school and sales horses/ponies), and for the first nine or ten of those 14 years I was very, very shy and timid. I was a fairly capable rider but wasn’t really one to speak up if something was going wrong or ask questions about how to fix/manage problems.
Since I managed to break out of my shell, my riding has improved at a quicker pace and my lessons have become more productive, but I think that it should be the responsibility of a good trainer to know his or her students and step in when necessary. That girl looks like a decent and athletic rider, but it seems pretty clear that she’s just doing what she’s told the best that she can, and her trainer should have taken the opportunity to teach her how to help that horse.
As long as I live I will never understand why horses don’t smash into the ground like the annoying flies that we are. It always amazes me to see one that is clearly in pain, but will still carry our butts over fences. I have ruined my fair share of horses before I figured it out. Certainly nothing I am proud of, but the best apology I can give to the horses in my past is to never repeat those mistakes with my current horse and all equine partners in my future. It wasn’t until I dropped my agenda of horse shows, barrel races and rodeos that I was able to really listen to what my horse was saying. It was too easy to mask pain if we had an event we were preparing for, the goal was always to make it to the date of whatever event was looming. I still show and attend events, but they are now just the icing on the cake. If my mare isn’t up to it, we stay home. With that focus I have accomplished more in the saddle over the last year than I did in the 10 years prior.
One question: Is the crappy music in the videos supposed to make it better?
animageofgrace.blogspot.com
Hit the mute button, that’s what I do.
The thing is, all horses have a different tolerance level. The horses in these videos were all tolerant, well mannered creatures, especially the older, grey with the child, who were trying to commi=unicate with the rider that something was really wrong.
In the end, if they are not listened to, they will either give up and work in pain, as the first horse, or start to fight back and get a reputation for being “nasty”
A gelding I bred (Yes, a PONY *gasp*) was a saint. Good as gold and a schoolmaster and babysitter to two little girls, at FIVE (I made them have him on three months trial to make sure, and gave them lessons but, no, he knew what he was doing and he was fine)
After they outgrew him they did not wish to sell him so they put him on loan to a pony club friend.
Warning bells went off when they told the mother that the pony was being difficult and they were going to ride him in spurs- proper spurs, they had not mentioned the blunt ones!
This was a pony that had been invited to hunt with the adult hunt, that did not normally allow children.
So we went to see him.
He was pig sick and fed up.
He was also, a pony that had been field kept 24/7, in a stall.
Only had to walk him down the drive, not even saddled to see his heart was nearly broken.
I went and got the trailer and took him home, back to my home, where he was turned out with his mother and left completely alone for six weeks.
It was like the end of “Smoky”- the book, not the film. He came and told me when he was ready, and I harness trained him and they still have him now, although he is supposed to be retired as he is 25 years old.
Not all pain is physical, and horses can have nervous breakdowns, too.
(Turns out the people who had had him, a 12.2hh pony, had jumped him over a 3ft 3ins course, which he could do, and so decided he could do 3ft 6ins. Which he could but not with ease. So he said “This is too hard” So they hit him. So, since he has not an evil bone in his body, he just dug in and refused to jump. So they used spurs and their “trainer” chased him with a lunge whip because he was just being lazy. So he became sullen and withdrawn and difficult. He was, in fact, clinically depressed. Luckily, not long after, we brought him home.)
The little mare i ride is very smart and very alpha. That being said, from the get-go i had concerns about some of her behavior even though her owner swore to me “she’s just being a brat.”
Here’s the thing: This horse LOVES to work. She’ll probably never be a jumper because she’s terrified of poles. Thus far incurably terrified. I started teaching her the basics of dressage and she’s been the happiest little thing. I think she likes work that makes her have to think. She gets bored just hacking around in circles and mischief follows boredom.
HOWEVER… when i first met her, she had saddling issues. She broke a crosstie and fell over, whacking her head on the stall nearby, on the first day i watched her go with the owner riding. I immediately started asking if she’d been checked for soreness, etc. Owner assured me that she was thoroughly checked out and there were no problems.
So i started riding her, fairly infrequently as she’s far away, and worked with her on the saddling issues. To my surprise, i found the more i rode her, the fewer issues she had, though there was some stiffness lingering. She seemed happy and forward with me. Another problem we ran into was that the owner couldn’t seem to ride her without harsh bits – she said the mare pulled on her too much and she couldn’t stop her. So every few weeks there would be a new bit to try. She finally settled on a kimberwicke – i finally settled on going to the tack store and buying myself an eggbutt snaffle for when i rode her. Why? BECAUSE SHE WENT LIKE AN ANGEL IN IT.
The stiffness became my concern. It continued to be a problem, and i noted that i couldn’t get her to move into the contact while tracking right. She tried, I could tell she was trying really hard to do what i asked, but she was physically unable, despite trying to warm up and limber up her muscles on that side. I devoted a rode entirely to doing just that.
The next ride, she wouldn’t let me put the saddle on her at all. She hadn’t done that in months, and i knew that this was not brattiness, this was A Problem. So i called her owner, who now lives in another state, and told her that i wanted to get a chiropractor/massage therapist out there to see the horse. She agreed, and i called one i knew who did excellent work.
Sure enough, the poor mare’s shoulders and neck were completely out. Oh, did i mention that the mare has high/low syndrome in her front feet and that infrequent, sporadic barefoot trimming is somehow not fixing it? *headdesk*
On a more humorous note, i really enjoyed watching her reactions with the chiro. She’d watch, fascinated, to see what the woman was doing, and when the right spot was hit, she’d streeeeetch her neck out and flap her lips open and then relax and droop. So funny.
So yeah, after the treatment, i had a completely different horse. She let me put the saddle on, danced a little nervously for mounting (i have no doubt she expected pain), but moved out smoothly once we started going. I started her on her good side, so she could relax and be comfortable, and then i turned her to the right and started asking her to take the contact. She threw a bit of a tantrum at the very first, again, probably expecting pain. I’m patient, though, and asked her again, to give just a little, bend just a little, and a bit more and more until she realized she could do it and not hurt! by the end of that ride, she was going in both directions with no signs of discomfort!
Sadly, life has been in the way and due to her distance i haven’t been able to go and ride her since that day. She is for sale, and her owner now lives out of state, but she’s getting little to no work because i have no time to get down there. If i had the money to support a horse i would buy her; we get along spectacularly. Alas, no horse for me. i tried seeing if Owner would let me find a place to board that’s closer to me, but she is understandably reluctant to move her from her current barn (they’re an excellent little backyard place, quiet, the owners do all the animal care themselves, and there’s no Barn Drama).
At the very least I’d like to make sure she finds a good home with a rider who will take the time to understand and work with her to fix her issues. As i said before, she’s extremely smart, very willing, and could go up a few levels as a dressage horse under the right conditions.
So, anyone want a cute little grey mare who needs a bit of an upgrade?
Pain so sucks- my 13 year old tough mustang mare is finally happy. New problem with Joy now- my new saddle fits ( I sucked it up and bought a $1500 used custom made saddle that fits like it was made for her) second 6 mile trail ride now and she is moving so big that we have some shocking overreaching happening- No lameless and still so happy to go,go,go now- bell boots are coming out for today’s ride and any other advice as my trained to be stoic mare adjust to her new stride? Barn owner/trainer/farrier who is really good just wants to square her toes and put her in natural balance shoes.
Well, I have to say I’m generally a big fan of natural balance shoes, and squaring her toes should help with the overreaching issues. I’d try it!
I submitted a post that I thought I saw “awaiting approval,” where I discussed my horse’s various issues from being OTTB, undergoing the physical changes from being shod with long toes (the better to grip the ground and run faster) etc. He also had shelly feet (the typical TB hoof) and thin soles, a bad knee — a myriad of problems. The vet and shoer worked together — starting in 1999 — and my horse underwent several shoeing “incarnations.” He is now in steel-lite Natural Balance shoes with his toes are squared a bit. His breakover is excellent, and he is sound.
He came with changes in both front feet, the right hoof smaller than the left. He was also over at the knee, his way of compensating for heel pain. Had chiropractic done with a DVM, and six months later even she could not get over how straight he was standing once his feet were trimmed and shod correctly and the changes were addressed — hoof injections, the shoeing and trimming regimen, supplements — and of course the adjustments. (I made a believer in supplements out of my shoer. I asked him what supps he recommended, and he said, “Well, if you want to waste your money, you can feed him anything with biotin.” After six weeks, he asked me what I had done to the horse because he could tell the amount of hoof growth was increased and the new growth was healthier. I told him and he said he was going to start feeding supplements to his horses — he’s a team roper).
My horse’s other issues: He was girthy, especially with a dressage girth. My regular vet thought it might be due to a pressure point or perhaps the horse had stomach ulcers because he IS a worrier, so I switched to a saddle with short billets and used a longer girth. I always take girthing slowly, too. Today I can use a dressage girth and a saddle with longer billets because he’s “okay with that.”
He has a slight roach back and developed a habit on the track of rearing up and going over backward — because he “worries,” he does not like to be rushed. He stops breathing, “freezes” and then if the handler applies the slightest pressure on his head, up he goes. I haven’t had that problem with going up for YEARS because I know his routine. I see the “freeze,” I move to his head, rattle the lead and tell him, “You come FORWARD.” When he blinks or “sees me,” I know he’s listening, and then I walk forward. He comes with, chewing like mad. (whew!)
The chiro we see now is also a DVM. She will say his lower back is “tight,” which is a GOOD thing. When his back is bothering him (and he refuses to go forward in anything faster than a WALK during schooling), she will say his back is “a mess,” and she works and works to get it to “unmess.” Her minimum length of time per horse is about 30 minutes. Horses with issues get much longer — whatever it takes to manipulate the “mess” parts. ;o)
I have had the bitchy for no reason horse, we did everything from xrays to an mri, nothing. Had a saddle custom made, had a video of me riding the horse and besides the relax your shoulders video everything was good. The horse in question was a mare with a hellacious attitude problem, both on the ground and undersaddle. I had a NH trainer work on the groundwork, but everytime said trainer (who is very good btw) tried to do anything undersaddle horse would explode. I said “fine, let’s get the chiro out and get her hormones checked by the vet also, do a whole exam to see if something isn’t normal”, nothing was out of place the hormones were normal, nothing.
We finally gave up and sold the mare to the NH trainer and I saw the EXACT problems happen to her that happened to me. She did more chiro, vet stuff and both couldn’t find anything wrong with the creature. She sold her to a buddy as a trail horse and yes she still pins her ear and whirls her tail almost constantly. We will never know why, but we do know she was the biggest bitch I have ever owned.
One of my current horses had ulcers, now is fine though he will always be on the meds. Every morning at feeding time, he glares at me and pins his ears and makes a growling noise, we have had him adjusted and everything apparently this is something he picked up while at the track. I always smile at him and tell him “what a cute boy, you know you aren’t so cute when you make faces”, he usually puts his ears up and waits for food then. He is also a natural ear pinner, when you walk up to him in the paddock he pins his ears and gives a go to hell look but is all show. Doesn’t do this any other time, only when he is in his paddock/stall.
Other Tb tosses his head yes up and down till he gets fed, again probably something picked up at the track.
Had my paint adjusted 3 times in a month and a half due to overt pissiness, this horse is a tail swisher naturally (especially while doing transitions, so you have to ask very quietly and nicely) and likes to really piss the rider off. He will try his heart out to out think you (and usually does to an extent) was riding him and he was just acting stupid! Rearing, bucking and just being a jerk. I hopped off, checked the saddle and checked his back everything was fine. Next mornin he was very sore over his back and left rib area, found out saddle was slightly off needed re-flocking on one side. sent saddle to be flocked, chiro came out and now have still slightly pissy (as he usually is but not in a nasty way) but pain free pony.
I’ve been reading for years, but had to create an account to post a comment for this one. My sister bought a 4 year old pony a few years ago from a woman who was afraid of him. He had very minimal training and a minor bucking problem. We took him home and discovered he was barely broke – hence the bucking. We put a few miles on him and all was going well; he’s very intelligent and a quick learner. About a year later, he developed a rearing problem. We checked his tack for fit and his back for pain and found no problems. We had the vet out to check his teeth and were told that he was slightly uneven, but it wasn’t severe and shouldn’t be causing such extreme behavioral problems. We had him floated anyway. The change was absolutely amazing; it was like riding a different horse. He was still tense – you could feel that he was afraid of being hurt, so we turned him out over the winter months to just give him a break from being ridden. He’s now 9 and we haven’t had any rearing episodes since then. We have his teeth checked twice a year now because of his sensitivity, and switched from a normal snaffle bit to a french link (which he greatly prefers).
It isn’t just through riding that they can tell you they hurt. We keep the horses at my parent’s farm. My mom tries hard, but she isn’t a master equestrian by any means. It normally isn’t an issue since my sister and I trade off days feeding, meaning one of us is there every night. Mom takes care of them for routine vet and farrier visits, though. She was holding my thoroughbred while he was getting his feet trimmed last year. He’s normally very good about everything, but this time he absolutely refused to pick up his right foreleg. The farrier bullied and treatened him, and even resorted to hitting him once, but Byron refused to lift that leg. My mom was very upset and called me after the farrier left. When I came over that night, I discovered that Byron was in the first stages of an abcess in his left leg. He didn’t want to lift his right because it hurt to stand on the left. The farrier had even trimmed the left foot without noticing anything was wrong; even if he hadn’t hit my horse, that would have been the last time he ever laid hands on one of mine.
I’ve seen those videos before. I can’t stand them. Especially the second one. The rider needs to be whacked over the head with a 2×4 if she can’t see anything wrong with that picture. Dumbsh*t.
I don’t ride my horses enough to tell about it, so I rarely have any problems like that. I’ve seen several horses being ridden into the ground and made into sour nags, though. There was this beautiful mare at my old barn who I took care of for several years (her owner never came out, long story). She was the most gentle, stoic thing I’d ever seen. But then we got a new boarder who immediately took the liberty of taking over the entire barn (no, the BO did nothing about it). She got chummy with the mare’s owner, and the owner naively gave her permission to use the mare whenever she wanted, under the impression that the woman knew what she was doing and would take good care of the horse.
This woman was a complete pig of a rider and ran the horse into the ground — after the horse had been doing nothing but sitting in a pasture for years, and was in her mid-20′s. She would hop right on and run barrels with her, crash around the arena and run into other people’s horses, go on 3 hour trail rides (with her buddies, who were often riding lame horses also), you name it. She wasn’t my horse so there was nothing I could do about it, and it made me sick to watch “my girl” turn into a back-sore, pissy nag. And the woman thought she was just being disobedient. Disobedient my ass. This horse never put a foot out of place until she started riding her. Several other boarders tried telling her that the horse was sore, but there is no reasoning with people like her. Amazing how it only takes one moron to ruin a perfect horse. We ended up leaving the barn and I haven’t seen the horse in over a year. She’s still in the hands of that awful woman, and I worry about her all the time. It just makes me sick. I wish I had a happier story that was the other way around. I guess I’ve just been around too many dipsh*ts. Ugh.
I figured I ought to mention this one too. We just got a 15 year old percheron mare for my husband. I noticed when I checked her out that she seemed underweight, but figured that eating the hay that the sheep had been rooting around in and not having any grain, or work, would contribute. When I rode her she did a lot of head flipping (break your face style) and when I FINALLY encouraged her to seek the bit she jumped back like she’d been electrocuted. The bit was a single jointed snaffle that was an inch too wide, the saddle wasn’t wide enough for her either.
So we brought her home, got her a mullen mouth pelham (she’s green under saddle so I wanted a bit as close to what she wore while driving as possible) that was the correct size for her. Got a saddle that fit her well, she gets two cups of grain over the course of the day and hay all to herself. She didn’t gain weight back.
My husband started riding her and the head flipping continued. One day after we got done riding her my trainer called and told me that she was FREAKING out in her stall. She’d bend down to grab a bite of hay and then REAR. We’ve checked and double checked the bit fit and adjusted as needed, made sure it wasn’t the saddle. We got a whiff of her breath. She most likely needs teeth pulled. Because she was so cheap I didn’t have a vet check done (I wasn’t going to pay $400 for a vet check on a horse that only cost 2x that, especially since she’s just going to be a husband horse) so I’m dreading the vet looking into her mouth. The woman I bought her from was VERY nice, but didn’t have a clue about horses. This mare’s mouth is probably a train wreck, and most likely the reason for her naughty behavior.
Someone said earlier that you can’t just assume it’s a behavior problem, you need to look for external circumstances (the bit about the ants). I am NOT saying that you should work your horse on an ant hill where you know they are being stung, or flipping their heads because their mouth hurts from bad teeth, etc. BUT. I am not going to let my husband’s horse be a total bitch and do whatever she wants because her mouth hurts. She still needs to be obedient and listen – she weighs 2300 lbs and when you give her an inch she will take a mile. And when a behavior becomes a habit – even if the initial behavior was caused by something like saddle fit, etc – eventually you are going to have to undo that bad behavior. Once we figured out it was mouth pain we haven’t ridden her and my trainer (who also runs where she’s boarded) is working to help her be more comfortable and the vet will be out day after tomorrow to look in her mouth and do whatever needs to be done.
Let me get this straight……….
You buy an unknown, older, horse, cheap, that has already indicated that she was reactive to bit pressure, ….. and was underweight, from a lady that you said doesn’t know the most about equine care.
Yet… you didn’t check the teeth…..
You bring her home.. try to feed her up and she doesn’t gain and she’s still being reactive to the bit….
And still… you didn’t check her teeth…..
Then someone notices pain-related behaviors when she’s EATING…
… And still, barring all the previous clues…. the last fricking thing you check are her teeth?
If that mare’s teeth are bad enough that she’s in enough pain to “pop” while trying to eat and they’re bad enough for you to smell them…. they’re likely pretty goddamned bad.
I’d be a “naughty bitch” too if I had abscessed teeth, couldn’t comfortably eat, and had someone yoinking on on my mouth with a chunk of metal expecting me to be a good girl.
Pain related behavior =/= Naughty.
Pain related behavior = Pain related behavior.
Humans can cry and whine and demand painkillers and schedule an appt with a doctor or dentist..etc.
Animals can only communicate with us via behaviors and it is up to the good owner to learn to read and understand those behaviors for what they are.
That mare was telling you from day one what was the matter… and you didn’t listen to her.
I do hope that you’ve learned something from this and won’t make that mistake again.
“You buy an unknown, older, horse, cheap, that has already indicated that she was reactive to bit pressure, ….. and was underweight, from a lady that you said doesn’t know the most about equine care.
Yet… you didn’t check the teeth…..” -> Nope, I didn’t. Because I see a bit that is an inch too big and the bridle adjusted improperly and say “Holy cow, I’d be pissy too!” I had an OTTB that would just about flip over if you touched his mouth with a single jointed snaffle but was like butter in a mullen mouth. Solution? Get a properly fitted bit with no joints.
“You bring her home.. try to feed her up and she doesn’t gain and she’s still being reactive to the bit….
And still… you didn’t check her teeth…..” -> Considering she didn’t have a bit in her mouth until about a week and a half ago (she was purchased at the beginning of February) I had no idea that the new bit, very similar to the driving bit that I was given for her, would cause any discomfort at all.
“Then someone notices pain-related behaviors when she’s EATING…
… And still, barring all the previous clues…. the last fricking thing you check are her teeth?” -> It’s amazing but you know, she’s been eating just fine, and out in the PADDOCK she was just fine. She was only reactive while in her stall. And not with grain, just hay. Even FUNNIER is that I am NOT a vet, I am not even a vet TECH, I am not an equine dentist and as SOON as I was told about her shit fit she had in her stall I was on the phone with the vet to have someone out to check her teeth. It’s also HILARIOUS that I never happened to be around at feeding time, because she’s boarded. Considering how many phone calls I’ve gotten for other things I would be surprised to find that this particular behavior had been going on prior to when I got the call that I did.
“If that mare’s teeth are bad enough that she’s in enough pain to “pop” while trying to eat and they’re bad enough for you to smell them…. they’re likely pretty goddamned bad.” -> Once again, I had an OTTB that would go down on a single jointed snaffle and then try to jump into the rafters. Some horses are particular about equipment. And at the time her bit was an inch too big.
“I’d be a “naughty bitch” too if I had abscessed teeth, couldn’t comfortably eat, and had someone yoinking on on my mouth with a chunk of metal expecting me to be a good girl.” -> She had hooks on her lower molars and sharp points on her upper teeth. No abcesses, no bad teeth, no loose teeth, no wolf teeth.
“That mare was telling you from day one what was the matter… and you didn’t listen to her.
I do hope that you’ve learned something from this and won’t make that mistake again.” -> Do you have a horse? I’m just curious. I tend to look close to home for issues before running as fast as I can to get on the phone with the vet. Considering everything that was wrong with her tack – bit too big, bridle adjusted too long, saddle too tight, out of work for a while AND barn sour (it was also very, very windy) – I can think of plenty of reasons why she’d be misbehaving and head tossing. So I fixed the bit, got a better fitting bridle, got a saddle that fit her, let her chill out and get used to her surroundings (for six weeks because I didn’t have a saddle that fit). When she was still having issues after ALL those other things were fixed, THEN I called the vet.
For those that rush to vet at the first sign of any changed behavior how would it have felt to have the vet come out and find there was nothing physically wrong, it was just ill-fitted tack? Really.
I’m not into flaming someone who shares their story, but I would like to say that the very first thing that I do when I get a training horse in is take a look and a feel in the mouth. It is pretty easy to do and if there are any big problems like sharp teeth, hooks, ramps, or waves it will be very obvious.
Golly… nice backtracking and trying to cover your ass there.
(Next time.. make sure your story is matching up between posts. That’ll make it more believable.)
I’m not a vet tech, vet, equine dentist, or even a vatican assassin warlock.. nor are most of the horse folk that I know… but the first thing we all do is a physical pre-lim check on any horse that we’re even MILDLY considering bringing home.. (ie.. flex test, poke test, balance test, scrape out and look the hooves over thoroughly, feel the legs, check and make sure that the “gelding” is really a gelding, physical check for visible sarcomas, oooh.. {this may be a little crazy or something} have a feel and look at the horse’s teeth, tongue, and gums} among many other things.)….
Don’t even need a vet there to just do that.. ain’t that pretty farking crazy?
We do that because at that time that horse is a big mess of unknown variables and a fricking SENSIBLE and KNOWLEDGEABLE horseman would have taken the time to bother.. (whether or not it is a goddamned cheap/free nag or a pedigreed, ribbon-bedecked, FurryFairyFriesian that was bred, trained, and owned by the Great DipsyFarkingDoodle himself.)
The mouth/teeth check is farking STANDARD on any older horses with an unknown, and even known, history if they’re even just a little underweight.
(That’s the 1st fricking commandment amongst we who like crotchety, old, horses.)
Guess I just suck for not paying $300 for a vet check on an $800 horse and assuming all risks and responsibility that comes from that decision.
My first two horses that I bought both had very expensive vet checks and the first one had cystic navicular in one foot and a fractured coffin bone in the other. He was sound the day of the check so no x-rays were done. The second one was an ideopathic headshaker but was 100% sound. Headshaking wasn’t present the day of the vet exam either.
Neither one of those things incurable things showed up in the vet check. The first one had to be euthed and the second one was just incurable and I worked around it. So I wasn’t worried about this horse. Still not worried. To each their own and I’m stuck with the responsibility (and vet bills) for my actions. She got her teeth done, her teeth are now fine. She’s still barn sour and bitchy to me but adores my husband. Go figure that getting away with murder with women her whole life could have an impact on her behavior…
Here I thought I’d come under far more fire for riding the horse with the broken feet and being stupid too have x-rays done for the first three years.
Of course, while there is always a reason, it’s not ALWAYS physical. I was once asked to get on a lesson horse because he was being completely out of character and the trainer thought he was sour…he was refusing to go forward at all, stopping dead, throwing his head around. Just clearly not himself. He didn’t seem to be lame.
At the time, the footing in the indoor arena was being replaced. We were riding in the outdoor. It had been raining quite hard. I got on this horse, got about halfway around the arena…and he stopped dead and tried to spin into the center. I looked down…at the deep mud puddle right in front of him. The next circuit I rode him AROUND the mud puddles…and he sighed, relaxed, and behaved for the rest of the ride.
As far as I can tell, he just hated the mud…
Yikes! That last photo of the horse with its head cranked in the twisted wire snaffle seems pretty brutal. And what’s up with the saddle sitting way up on his neck?
I have a question about a cranky mare. A mare we have can be just nasty in the arena, but out on the trail she is an angel and never has any problems. She goes out on the trail alone or with other horses, WTC, through difficult terrain, water, etc and acts like she’s been doing it her whole life. Asking her to trot in the arean is taking your life into your own hands. Any ideas why? Is she arena sour? She’s never beena show horse and has not been arena ridden that often, so I can’t imagine that she is sour. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
A couple of things come to mind…
1) some sort of soreness that makes itself known around corners and circles. Not many of those on the trail.
2) herd bound – from the arena she can still see/hear her buddies and she wants to go back to them. Out on the trail, WITH them, she’s good.
3) boredom…is she better in the arena if you give her something to do, like a lot of serpentines, unexpected directional changes, as opposed to hugging the rail?
I’ve considered #1 since the mare is worse going right than left, but I think part of that is an OTTB thing. She does it at a walk though, so I think she just hates the arena. I’ve also noticed the problem is worse since I’ve had another lady coming out to ride her. Maybe she is bouncing on her back or something.
#2 She isn’t herd bound at all. She doens’t care one way or the other if there other horses are around. She prefers people to horses – very unsocial with the herd. She behaves fine going out on the trail alone.
We do lots of exercise in the arena, which she seems to like a little better – cones, serpentines, etc. When the poles are set up she actually goes over to them and WANTS to step over them. Perhaps she is a natural trail horse. I’m going to have an adjustment done and try a new saddle on her. Hope it works!
In my experience, when you have behavior as seen in the dark bay with the blaze, as well as the grey, it’s just as often a psychological one as it is a physical one. A horse who has soured on their job through overwork and/or bad riding, or just flat out abuse. That said, a friend of mine asked me to ride her horse who couldn’t get one of his leads. When I got on that poor thing – his neck could not bend to the right. I mean, COULD NOT. He’d bend left, but COULD NOT bend to the right. I suggested a chiropractor, and to my surprise she actually took me up on it. After a few sessions she found he now had two leads! Huzzah for chiros!
Yes!!! I love this blog post.
Why are there million dollar clinicians out there, a million and one videos with enchanting fun music, and documentaries that detail animal behavior, yet we STILL have to put up with people who flat don’t freaking LOOK at their horses? Seriously, it’s not that hard to learn what a tense expression is. It’s not that hard to realize that a horse is worried, hurt, or upset. If our child was worried, hurt, or upset, we would be looking for a solution right away, not saying, “Well by God, get over it, kid!”
Old story: A mare who came back from training with an evil glare and all attending body language. This sweet filly had been in our laps less than a year before, but came back from the trainer’s with no intention of EVER being ridden. She hated being saddled, mounted, and ridden. She made me feel like the most evil cruel person in the world if I asked her to do anything. Finally, I spent a week with zero contact on her face, telling her gently but firmly that I didn’t care where in the arena we went, as long as we didn’t stand by the gate. It took a week for her to decide that I would really listen to her– at that point she softened enough to ‘tell’ me that she really hurt in her back, and couldn’t do a collected canter. Fair enough: Chiropractor, strengthening exercises, and less demand for a perfect pleasure lope. She became soft, eager, and friendly once again.
New story: New Mare is in love with me. I listen to her. She’s a sweet darling, but there are some warning signs. Sometimes when we ride she gets suddenly ‘herd bound’, dances, tries to run, and generally acts desperate when she is turned for home. Mind you, at other times she will walk toward home with a loose rein. She will relax and lay down in her stall, but if too much activity occurs, or I turn another horse out, she will pace the stall and even threaten to ‘come over the top’. She calms down quickly from it, but the behavior as been repeated several times in the last week. Before she gets grain, or if she gets nervous, she will sometimes curl her lip or look around toward her belly. She’s in heat right now, so I have to consider that some of this may be from hormonal stuff. I’m still leaning toward trying her on some ulcer medicine, to see if it helps her out. I’m listening– sooner or later she’ll explain clearly enough that I can help her.
I think I want to become a clinician, and instead of smoke and mirrors, I’ll just bring a few horses into the arena, and start explaining what they are ‘saying’. Nah…. it would never sell.
It would sell, but not the way you hope it would. They’d just decide you’re the best Animal Communicator EVER!
One thing I love about horses is that you’ll always meet something a bit new to deal with. I have one this polo season that came from Mexico and wants nothing to do with humans, although she’s been in a good home for several years now . She can grow roots just like a mule when she doesn’t want to do something and my usual tricks don’t work. You could disengage her hindquarters or back her up or spin her around like a top and she’ll still remember that her goal was NOT to take even ONE step in THAT direction. So I’m sort of looking forward to it…I gotta figure her out! Also, I can’t handle horses not liking people…I will find the itchy spot, I will, if it takes me all summer…
I have a constant reminder to always be weary of girth sores from a lovely but moody mare I worked with for two years, in the form of a scar on my arm. Someone else in the barn decided to saddle her up with their english saddle, and when they realized it didn’t quite fit, they heaved and pulled and pushed and made the saddle fit.
Next day I start grooming her, unaware of what happened the day before. I’m not really concerned about her attitude or mouth as she’s always patient and nice when being groomed, if not asleep. I’m going about everything as usual and rub her girth area and BAM, out of no where she bites my arm because I hit where she was sore. I had some words with her, but when I was told about the unfitting saddle/girth? I had even more words with the rider. What were you thinking? Once you got her into the saddle everything would be just fine and she wouldn’t feel a thing? I dont know how she acted during the ride, unfortunately.
And now I have a nice little mark on my arm for a year or so now.
Saddle/Girth sores aren’t funny.
I got my first horse when I was 14. He was a very nice Saddlebred with an extensive show record. I was showing saddleseat at the time, so I was exposed to all of the crap that they do to horses. My trainer was awesome, very kind to her horses, and she felt sorry for this horse and convinced his owner to sell him to me. I got my horse for $1, because no one could ride him. He would just jig around instead of doing a nice flat walk, and when he was tired of working he’s go to the middle of the arena, park out, and refuse to move. They couldn’t beat him hard enough to get him to move. They thought my trainer was crazy for letting the 14-year-old girl buy him. Looking back, that was one wise old lady.
The first thing I did was switch out his twisted wire snaffle with just a plain old smooth eggbutt. That pretty much instantly cured his “jigging” issue. Everyone was so amazed that I could get him to walk calmly. He never tried the whole “go to the middle of the arena and refuse to move” thing with me, and my trainer said it was because I was teeny tiny, and his former owner was a huge, heavy guy. My trainer always suspected that the horse was just trying to tell fatass to GET OFF. Turns out she was right.
I also pulled his padded shoes off and started (*gasp*) turning him out in the pasture with other horses.
Amazing what a lighter rider, a more gentle bit, and some turnout with horsey buddies can do to change a horse’s attitude.
I’ve got a horse that I’ve been wondering if he’s in pain or not. I know he was for a looonnnggg time in the past, and has some past abuse as well. I can’t tell if he’s still in pain or if these are just old habits that I have to work on overcoming.
Symptoms:
Hollowed back
Shoulder dropping
Chomping on bit
Bucking* (only when asked to increase speed quickly, i.e. walk to canter or coming out of a rollback)
Very cinchy
Herd-bound*
Very spooky*
Hot*
*only occurs if I ride infrequently. Even just walking for 5-10 mins daily will drastically reduce or eliminate the problem
What I’ve done:
Vet soundness check
Chiropractic
Massage
Acupressure
Dental/float (about due again though)
Use the best farrier available
Treated for ulcers (helped for a month or so, but problems came back… treated again without success)
Excellent nutrition program
Ride in a smooth, copper mouth snaffle
Use 5-star felt pad or ESP memory foam pad
Tried 3 saddles: Western saddle with a tree that fits perfectly, Bob Marshall treeless saddle, and Cashel Softsaddle.
You have definitely tried a lot and for that I commend you! Given that the ulcer treatment worked, even if it didn’t work forever, and given that the horse is cinchy, I think you’ve already narrowed down the problem. I know Gastroguard will break the bank, but I’d put him on a more affordable ulcer supplement and see how that goes. As far as feed, as much as possible stuff him full of hay/let him graze on good pasture and not grain. If you have to grain, do something like Safe Choice. Anything sugary, molasses-y, etc. tends to make horses with ulcers much worse. I hope it works. You are clearly extremely committed to getting him 100%!
I’ll definitely try treating for ulcers again then. I had him on pasture and a grain that was very mild and he calmed right down. Was still cinchy and still had a hollow back/shoulder dropping, but his other problems went away. However, I put him on oats after a while because it calmed him down so much that he wouldn’t run anymore once he got in the barrel pen! Stopped being hot at the gate, but also stopped moving, haha
Another weird thing, that makes me actually wonder if it’s pain, is that this horse has always been barrel-raced to the right. After consistently blowing past the first barrel, and diving at the second and third, I decided to try taking the left barrel first. I practiced TWICE at a TROT, took him to a barrel race, and he ran the smoothest, most perfect run (albeit slow) that I’ve ever had. And, every time since, he’s run to the left perfectly. So he could make the same turns properly if he just was on a pattern that he didn’t know very well. I guess he was in pain so long that he was in the habit of diving at the barrels when we went around them the way that he did when he hurt. Not sure if this applies to my other problems, such as cinchiness, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Well, you know, this might be square peg in a round hole too…you might ONLY get barrel racing out of this horse if you feed him in a way that doesn’t work for him.
You might have to find something else that you and he both like to do. Maybe team sorting or drill?
You can also try something that isn’t oats to rev him up. There’s a great supplement called Red Cell that I’ve used on the polo ponies for twenty-some years. It will definitely give you more get up and go and I’ve never had a horse react badly to it (not saying that couldn’t happen, but I’ve had good luck). You can give it in hay pellets…it’s a liquid and most horses like the taste.
The cinchy thing might be helped by a long term gut-health supplement, like Succeed or Smart Gut. I’ve used both and had good success with them.
Thanks for the tip! I’ve got him on two pro-biotic supplements currently in addition to easy-to-digest grain (with integrated pro-biotic). Perhaps I should try a different kind? Though I wonder if, with 3 different types, adding another would do much more…..
I’d probably need some sort of video at least, if not a long time spent staring at him, before I could make any really good suggestions. So the stuff below is just guessing.
1. Conformationally, can he do the work? Is there something that just isn’t making it easy to do what is needed? What about something odd like kissing spine, or something similar?
2. Does the horse show any difference depending on who handles him? I’ve known cases with horses and riders who had personality conflicts. Perfectly nice riders with perfectly nice horses who didn’t get along. It’s like that kid who sat next to you in English class who you really wanted to move AWAY from, even though he was a perfectly nice kid.
3. Do you have access to a lameness specialist? All farriers and all vets are not created equal– find one who is really really good at evaluating lameness issues.
4. What happens if you bully the horse a bit? Does he get worse? Sulk? Get better? Only do this if you really know what you are doing– I’ve had horses get outright furious when pushed too hard. It just might give you a chance to really pinpoint when your horse gets upset. Is it only when turning? Only when moving toward or away from the barn? Only when doing transitions, or only transitions into a particular lead?
Hi there,
Thanks for the detailed response. I’ll see if I can give you enough info back. As far as video, I have some clips of our competitions (barrel racing and gaming), not sure if that would help though…. He’s an off-the-track paint with a ear that is split in half from what I believe to be a severe twitch.
1. Not sure what kissing spine is… Though conformationally, he is built and bred to be a rodeo horse. Solid bone, huge feet, deep hip and shoulder, short back, etc. When I got him he was “sound” but when I rode him, he felt like he limped when he walked. The farrier I have now told me he has had his right front heel trimmed at .5-1″ longer than his left front and at a different angle. Not sure for how long but I’d say definitely at least five years. A few trims and a chiropractic session and now he walks normally
2. He is a completely different horse with different handlers. He can’t have more than one person ride him or he has a meltdown (VERY hot, panics, tries to run away with the rider). I know of at least a dozen people that have ridden him, and he hasn’t worked well for anyone but me, and as you can tell by my post, even that’s not perfect. And, if I’m having an off day where I ride with a stiff body or harder hands, he gets very very nervous. Maybe he needs something else that I’m not giving him? Though if so, I haven’t found it in anyone yet…
3. That’s a great idea… I will look for a lameness specialist. My farrier is very good, but my vet is more focused on reproduction specialization. It couldn’t hurt to have a second opinion
4. It depends on the type of bullying, I suppose. It can go wrongs very easily, and when that happens he gets hot, nervous, and spooky. What is odd is, if I have just a teensy bit of rein pressure on his mouth, he’s not going to buck. It’s if I ask him to do something, even just going from a walk to a trot, on a loose rein, there’s a chance he will buck. But, if he can feel just a touch of contact, he won’t do it. So coming out of a rollback, I don’t have a hold of his face, and he bucks. Going from a walk to a loose-rein trot or canter, I also don’t have any pressure on the reins and again, there’s a risk that he’ll buck. But as far as bullying, if I do a few hard workouts in a row, he is wonderful. However, if I try say kicking him when he’s lethargic or aggressively making him slide-stop and back up after doing something like bucking or spooking, he just gets more hot. So I guess, overall, it doesn’t matter how much or what type of work I ask him to do, so long as it’s asked for properly… with very light/sensitive aids and a patient response if he makes a mistake.
Hope this helps! If you need any more info, just ask
Try a magnesium supplement…sometimes a hot/anxious horse can be deficient. I’ve also known people who swear by apple cider vinegar for chronic digestive issues and it’s cheap and probably wouldn’t hurt him any…
Thanks for the tip! Haven’t tried the magnesium, I’ll definitely give that a shot. Did try giving him ACV though. I didn’t see much of a difference as far as temperament but I got to say, he had the softest, shiniest coat I’ve ever seen. He also got dapples for the first time (and I’ve known this horse for 8 years)
I definitely have a story that goes with this post!
In high school my parents decided that it was finally time for us to have a horse, and we ended up buying one of my riding instructor’s schoolhorses (she was also my mom’s riding instructor). Ashes was a jerk. She HATED kids with a passion. If you so much as petted her neck, rump, legs, chest, or face she’d try to bite or kick (I was warned by my looking-back-now useless instructor that she was “ticklish” in these areas). She didn’t want to move out at any speed, and if you carried a crop she’d buck. Whenever she was cued to canter, she’d buck, and the instructor would say “ooh, I guess she doesn’t feel like doing that today. We’ll doing something else”. Every single time. I knew my instructor was spoiling her, but at the time I didn’t realize just how much (after, your teacher is supposed to know a lot, right?).
We moved Ashes to a new barn, and got a new instructor, one who ended up probably being the best trainer I’ve ever had. She was a godsend. I still refer people to her every now and then, though I don’t know if she is still teaching. She taught me quickly that horses are not fragile little creatures to be babied and spoiled. My using a crop, much less a kick was not going to hurt her- what a concept! Ashes’ manners improved dramatically, especially on the ground, and we actually bonded pretty well. Thank goodness, my new trainer was also a good enough horsewoman to be able to see that Ashes was hurting. She’d cut riding short when Ashes started to look creaky. She taught me how to medicate for pain, and helped us make sense of the vet’s advice (we had a crappy vet).
It turns out, the poor old mare had Navicular in both front feet. The vet wanted to denerve her, but we didn’t want to be completely unable to tell when she was hurting. She turned into a pasture pet, and was much more well-mannered for it. I still hopped on bareback for a short trail ride when she was feeling good, but for the most part she got to stand around and eat grass and be groomed. If her old owner had noticed earlier that she was hurting, we might have been able to manage her Navicular to point where she could have stayed rideable for much longer. As it was, she was a perfect storm of pain and spoiledness that made a super sweet mare seem like a huge jerk.
My first horse of my own (we’d had family horses) was a rescued tb with a bad roach in his back and you could tell from the way he walked he was sore. He had about 4 months of chiropractic before we ever even sat on him and the difference it made to him was amazing. He came back from a loan home in a mess (v. long story) but basically we think he had a fractured pelvis (we didn’t work this out till later as our vet then wasn’t brilliant) and he had a lot more pain and tension issues in his lower back. As long as he had regular chiropractic he was fine but had to be seen every couple of months.
I have a mare who’s coming up 6 now. I got her as a just back 3 year old, very sweet with no issues. She started rushing more and more when we were schooling (she was 4 then after having a year out with no work) and we ended up having a few fights (yes my fault not hers) and I started thinking something was out, she wasn’t lame but she wasn’t right. The chiro agreed her stride was ‘mildly’ out but practically not noticable. Her back was fine so I had a vet come out to check her over, his conclusion was she was sound and (although he didn’t say it) I was seeing things. She continued to be difficult and didn’t lunge well so I filmed her being lunged and we watched the film frame by frame and it was obvious she wasn’t moving both hind legs the same way so we got a second opinion. Within 5 minutes of watching her he diagnosed locking stifles. She was only mild and didn’t fully lock but it was catching on most strides, hence she was sore and not moving properly. She got another year off to finish growing, still seemed to be having problems so we started walking out in straight lines and now as she turns 6 she’s pretty much grown out of it as long as she gets turnout. I’ve learnt from her that if she’s making a fuss there’s a reason – she’s never yet made a fuss about nothing.
This is off topic BUT this horse’s story needs attention and the lady who did this to him (and God only knows how many others) needs to be stopped!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saving-Be-Aech-King-Bar/109120789169374?ref=mf#!/pages/Saving-Be-Aech-King-Bar/109120789169374
Is there somewhere to read the actual story? This link goes to a lot of disjointed FB comments, some of which are way out there/impenetrable. Of course, there is also the possibility that if you know how to use FB, the story is actually there, in which case I would appreciate instructions! Thanks.
check this video out and give it a little comment
http://www.youtube.com/user/MagicBracken#p/u/4/3ooo3DLrI2s
That link goes to the person’s channel, the main video is not great but not too terrible, I thought OK, person learning to ride, poor horse looks uncomfortable.
But then to see this person jumping, omg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ij_4-H7lfQ&feature=relmfu
No responsible trainer should be allowing that pair to jump right now…. especially not 2’6!! That horse is a saint.
Learning? Shes been riding at least a good eight years hhaaa!
Check these pictures out! Makes me feel quite sick!
WTF. That actually makes me angry.
Is that what they mean by ‘behind the motion’ or ‘getting left behind’? Or is there more going on than that?
Poor saint of a pony. Hopefully that pair gets a new trainer, stat.
OMG is that for real?? How can people be allowed to balance their whole bodies on the reins? Can’t tell from the pix if there is an actual bit, and in that case she should be prosecuted for animal abuse!
Also cannot believe any instructor would permit this to happen more than once — back to the longe line with no stirrups or reins till she can balance herself. She is also too big for that valiant pony, seems to me.
The picture below on the chestnut, there seems to be more slack in the reins — I don’t think that rider is actually balancing on them, but is perhaps willing to go off backwards instead.
I think it’s pretty simple…watch your horses ears and tails. My OTTB (project horse for 2 years) did go through a very brief (probably three) training rides where he was learning flying lead changes. When he would change, it was almost like he was using his tail for a rudder – it didn’t continue to swish, but was like he was using it for balance. The trainer went back to simple lead changes for a couple of weeks and when she returned to flying lead changes the rudder was gone.
There are only two (2) times I’ve seen ears pinned or not alert. He doesn’t like “stinky mares” getting too close and he doesn’t like his paddock neighbors eyeballing his food (his teeth are floated regularly – he’s jus a slow eater).
I’m only a horse enthusiast, not a rider, but I can even tell these horses are saying “Hello WTF” to their riders. This might be a more appropriate response :
Though even that picture freaked me out when I saw it.
I totally agree with you. Both those horses look like there in a ton of pain. But I have a friend who owns a quarter horse gelding who’s 6 and he always is swishing his tail. It’s just his personality. His ears are always forward and he gets checked once a month at least by a chiropractor. He also just had a new saddle fitted to him.
Well, we often forget that tails are used by horses for expression, and practically to deal with flies and other irritants on their skin. So in other words, it’s relatively easy to ‘teach’ a horse to swish its tail in response to a squeezing leg or bumping spur, even if the action itself doesn’t hurt the horse.
Dressage horses are supposed to have ‘expression’ with their tails. It’s only the quarter horse world that seems to think that a swishing tail automatically means resistance.
But “expression” is NOT flippng or wringing — it’s the sway of the tail in response to a correct soft, swinging back.
Flipping and wringing is indeed an “expression” — but not of anything good!
A horse can have his ears up all the time and still have an issue.
If he’s ridden with spurs, take them off — that’s probably the number one cause of tail wringing when no physical problem exists. Even without spurs, you can see one of the chicks in the videos with her lower leg and heel clamped CONSTANTLY into her horse’s side. To a sensitive horse, that’s a major irritation.
I never understand having spurs grown into your boots. My trainer puts on spurs WHEN the horse needs them. It’s never every day on every ride.
Been thinking about this thread whilst a the yard tonight. My mare hates being saddled. Last late summer/autumn her saddle stopped fitting her, at the time I didn’t know enough about saddle fitting to realise. She got it checked, reflocked and she improved a bit but started getting grumpy when being saddled again. She’d gained some weight and it didn’t fit again. I had a saddle with a broken tree which I had fixed and fitted to her but before we could use it more than once of twice she managed to injure her hind leg. She’s had the entire winter on box rest/tiny paddock as she’s damaged the tendon sheath near her hind fetlock, luckily no holes in the tendon itself. We’ve recently started rehabbing her however due to my old injuries I’m not able to walk out more than 5 – 10 minutes at a time so once we reached that far I couldn’t keep building it up so, with the vet’s agreement, I’ve started riding her out. We scaled back the amount of time going out due to it being harder for her to walk out with me on that without me. Because she’s gained a fair amount of weight over the winter through being on box rest (my fault and it’s coming off now) her saddle didn’t come anywhere near fitting her so I’ve been using my sister’s treeless on her (she was originally broken in a treeless and was fine with it). This definately fits her, has the correct pads etc. I thought that after 6 months with no saddle anywhere near her she’d have forgotten the whole saddle is sore thing but she’s as grumpy as ever when having the saddle on. She swings her head back with ears pinned etc. She doesn’t bit as she knows thats not allowed. She did have her back checked when she had the saddle refitted in the autumn and nothing was out at all. She’s been seen several times since I’ve had her and never been out or had sore spots. She is going to be checked again at the end of this month to ensure that her backs not out but I’m not sure where to go with her being unhappy about being saddled. Once the saddle is on she’s fine. Even when you go to tighten the girth she doesn’t make a fuss and is fine to mount, ride etc and I haven’t been able to find any sore spots. Her leg seems to be coping fine with the work (we’re on 5 minutes walking with the odd strop thrown in by her lol), she only gets a little heat immediately after exercise, no extra swelling and no residual heat and doesn’t seem to get any pain in it. She’s fine to bridle etc so I’m at a loss as to why she grumps about the saddle being put on or how to have her happier about it. Any suggestions?
There are times that a behavior persists out of habit, even after the pain is gone. My gelding is girthy, even tho I know there are not problems with the current girth. But years ago, I used to ride with a tighter girth and he didn’t approve. I taught myself to ride with it looser, tighten more slowly, and also got one with elastic at both ends that he likes, but he still swings his head toward me when I start to tighten (but not when I finish). Sometimes if you rule out all other options, and if the behavior doesn’t worsen or seem to cause an objection other times (such as the objection to saddling but not weight in the saddle or girthing), it may just be a learned response. In my gelding’s case, I’ve always owned him to I can trace the behavior back, luckily.
Well, sometimes its not the rider’s fault and more placed on the trainer. These people must be having some sort of lessons – you think that the person teaching them would be honest enough to tell them that their horse is in pain! I guess I am just very naive to think that though!
That mare looked downright horrible, totally obvious about the pain. And the rider didnt ride too bad either, pity she never picked up on the fact that the horse is crippled across its back!
The first horse I would buy – looked very honest type, and tried but a young horse can only try so much when the rider is using their back as a trampoline!!
This horse is rising 5 (in may) and has a bit of character about him – watch and see! But he is not in pain at the third water – more nappy/spooky/greeness. There is a HUGE difference between naughty and painful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNaa1gcyKuY
The mare in my avatar taught me the importance of a tight leg, soft hands and thinking outside the box – about 20+ years ago. This picture was taken last summer. I can’t remember exactly how many years it has been since I first fell for her and rode her but thinking she would be about 26 – 28 in this picture. Nobody would go near her then never mind ride her except me. A lot of work and she became an excellent school and show horse. Now she carries my 4 year old around and is amazing with him. She’s been retired for a little while because she is sound and such a good babysitter she will be doing a little light leadline work with little kids. She is THRILLED to be working again and have attention and love lavished on her.
But….back when we were both younger and crazier…I would have thought you were nuts if you tried to tell me that one day I would throw my little kid on her to ride!
I’m not entirely sure if horse #1 is in pain, or is just way crooked from the riding. Not to tear into the girl, she’s probably on a lesson horse and the pace of the lesson (being that there are other riders waiting their turn) would not allow for schooling her on the flat. She’s trying to keep the horse on the rail primarily with the outside rein so his head is out and his inside shoulder is falling way in. So of course he’s coming to the fence very crooked, which is just asking for a stop or run-out. The horse also looks tense (which adds to being strung-out) and sour (probably from endless lessons under many different novice riders.) Under a rider who could bend him properly around the turns and half-halt to get his canter balanced, we might see a very different horse.
Great topic, thanks for addressing this! As just the quickest example possible, a horse in the school string at my barn who was developing a reputation as “cranky”, has turned into a much more pleasant horse after an appointment with the saddle fitter. Unfortunately a lot of lesson string horses seem cranky, they do have to tolerate imperfect riding as part of the job, but attention to saddle fit can help make the neccessary evil of carrying unbalanced riders much easier on the horse.
The last photo, of the black horse with the draw/running/twist combo…. That looks like something from this weekends Arabian show in Eugene.
At any rate, I have a young Arab hunt gelding who had terrible soreness in his back and intermittent lameness. We bone scanned, and vet checked, and chiropracted… and nothing would hold off the soreness. So we put 3* wedge pads on his hind feet, and problem solved! It’s amazing what doing something like custom orthotics can do for your horse. He’s got a bit too much energy and happy now, and he gets a little silly. However, it’s nice to see him feeling so good.
We also had a western gelding who wouldn’t use his ears and was kinda funky about his head. Come to find out he had an ulcer underneath his epiglottis and inside both ear canals. Cleaned his ears and two weeks of mouthwash, and he’s all fixed up. Sometimes the oddest things cause them to stop being the delightful partners we enjoy.
The picture is from the Scottsdale All-Arabian show this year.
I just recently discovered the cause of my horse’s problems. When I bought her, she was advertised as a four-year-old. Her teeth told me she was three. She spit caps all the first summer. She was not trained, other than halter-broke.
From the start, she was sweet, and a pocket-pony type. In fact, it took me two weeks to be able to send her away to teach her to lunge. Once she figured out what I meant, she had walk, trot, canter, change direction all down in 20 minutes. Literally. Occasionally, she seemed a little off in the hind end, but subtle, and inconsistent.
The I discovered she hated anything over her back: blanket, saddle, anything, and was really sensitive to anything around her middle. I was thinking that perhaps the previous owners had tried to break her as a two-year-old, thinking she was three, and that they were too rough and messed up her head. Then she got worse so that she was obviously painful in the back, and wouldn’t always take the correct lead in the hind (still all ground work). So, I thought the previous owners were rough and messed up her back. Did a course of adjustments and massage, which helped her a lot. We still didn’t get anywhere in four months with trainer number one because we couldn’t get past the pain, or fear of it. We went to trainer number two, a guy known for a gentle method and figuring out where the problem was. After a few weeks, he said she was too self-protective to get anywhere. Adjustments were getting less effective.
‘She was getting too painful to even consider as a pasture pet. SHe couldn’t take a lead in the rear end at all – she bunny-hopped. She was always on edge and spooky, not happy. So I decided her life depended on finding out what this was. Got the vet out to throw a wide net in testing for possibilities. We started with blood work and a muscle biopsy. The results: Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy (EPSSM), as well as a shockingly low Vitamin E level. No wonder we couldn’t pinpoint where she was hurting; it was everywhere!
So, radical diet change: low starch, low sugar and HIGH fat, and supplements. We had to work up to one pound of fat a day. She gets a cup of soy oil am and pm.
THREE DAYS into this diet, I noticed a huge improvement! I was free-lunging her in the round pen (exercise is also a huge part of treatment). I let her pick her speed as long as she kept moving because she’s been so stiff and sore. She shocked me when she chose to canter, taking the correct lead in the rear end and holding it for several laps. I made her slow down; didn’t want her to overdo it. She’s still improving; it’s been four weeks. My sweet pocket pony is back, and the spooky tense side is appearing less often. The farrier noticed a huge improvement in her willingness to let him pick up her feet. She no longer pulls away.
It’s supposed to take four to six months to get her metabolism to stabilize, but I’m cautiously optimistic. I was warned there will be plateaus and even setbacks during that time, but the immediate improvement is a very good sign.
Hooray! She may still end up as a pasture puff, but she’ll be comfortable.
My first horse had the same problem. He was a little Appy, technically a pony at 14.1hh (small horse body on stubby legs). He would occasionally pull dirty stops or run out on my tween self (he may have been a horse by blood, but he was a pony at heart). I remember the day he started having problems. We were jumping in a lesson, and once of the fences was a little 2’3″ oxer. He refused, no biggy. He was being a pig. We tried again. He refused again. Over and over and over this happened. We crashed into the flower box once as he was slamming on the brakes. Trainer took the back rail down, and he jumped it….tentatively. We considered that a victory and stopped for the day.
In the next couple weeks, my trainer and my mom started noticing a hitchiness in his hind end. He became really reluctant to working, and sometimes it was just near impossible for me to make him go. Then his attitude started going down the toilet. I was told he attacked the front of the stall, but I never actually saw it. My mom started researching online (she has her PhD in animal science, grew up on a dairy farm, if it’s about nutrition or lactation, she’s the go-to lady). She came across something called EPSM. She found a vet who had a lot of experience with this problem (Dr. Beth Valentine, if anyone has heard of her), and they set up a little trial run diet for him. Low starch, high fat. Alfalfa pellets, canola oil (a ton of it…his feed was so goopey and gross) and a Vit. E/Selenium supplement. He was a completely different horse. His hind end started doing what he wanted it to, he was willing to work, his crabby attitude was gone, he was GREAT.
He was never 100% again–he had good days and bad days. We were in the process of teaching him about lead changes when this whole thing happened, and with his back end we decided not to press the issue. If he got the change, great, but if he didn’t, a simple change was fine. We weren’t going to force the issue. Eventually my mom outgrew her show horse, who became my horse, and decided that my Appy needed an easier job. We sold him to a girl who had actually owned him as a 4yo (he was 14-ish when we sold him), and she found him for sale online and came to see him. She does little trails with him and occasionally jumps a few little things with him.
We felt really bad in hindsight because at my first show, about three years before this happened, he started head-shaking, not focusing and eventually exploding in a rodeo-bucking fit while I was schooling him. We thought he was just being bad, but it was probably related to EPSM (tying up, something similar). Luckily that was the only big episode he had.
When I bought my horse Legend, I had my dressage saddle fitted to him. He was fine with it, but I didn’t take into account how much his back was going to change with muscleing. So, the 2nd winter I had him when we began doing collected canter work, he began to buck through corners and circles. I checked my saddle, and found that it was very tight on him. Changed saddles, and he was fine. I also had him checked by a chiro, but I didn’t see much change, and I haven’t had him back out, because I thought it was very expensive for not a lot of difference.
I will ask though, he has begun to clack his teeth together whenever he is working. I work him in a simple eggbutt snaffle, and he does it with or without a flash. I do not have heavy hands what-so-ever, and I warm him up properly and I have not noticed any stiffness. Any ideas?
Wow, a running martingale and draw reins in addition to a pretty nasty bit – I would love to ask just WTF they are trying to accomplish, but I’m not sure I want to hear the answer. I am pretty certain, that gaping mouthed, nasty expression is NOT what they were after, athough after some of the shit I have seen (here) I’m not so sure about that…
I would have loved to see all 4 of the riders in the videos dumped on their asses. Even the kid should know something is not quite right…
My “burning question” after reading all this… and yesterday’s post about the soring… is this;
How in the world can those folks who use the creepy methods to train (and I use that term loosely) by hurting a horse ON PURPOSE even survive to get the thing into the show ring? Let alone perform all the gaits as required, etc.
I’ve been to plenty of english horse shows and don’t recall ever seeing a horse have a major meltdown. My husband was a farrier (Arabians, Morgans, Saddlebreds) and he never came home telling stories about trainers getting into rodeos with their charges – and the methods they used weren’t very kind. They didn’t care if their horses were happy or if they liked their tack, etc.
Someday’s horse (the post above about deciding not to ride again based on the COTH discussion) is shown in this video kicking out and carrying on quite a bit. http://www.youtube.com/user/yautjakshai#p/u/18/OuZZbRdX7Ew and it sounds like the gal went to great lengths to make her comfortable and happy.
I’ve been through all the same struggles with my own horse(s) and it just doesn’t add up. I know I am not alone – I read every day about other folks’ struggles with saddle fit and a myriad of other horse-comfort issues. My company sells books, and the most popular titles by far are those that address this dynamic, especially the ones with emphasis on what to do when you lose your nerve (after your horse is fed up with your bad riding, or ill-fitting tack, etc). http://www.hoofprints.com/horseowners.books.html
yep. can directly relate to the ‘listen to your horse or end up in the dirt’ concept. my mistake was that i knew my colt was in pain, but listened to the trainer instead. sent him off after starting him for six weeks of training and some fine tuning for both of us. while he was there, we started having some problems – he wasn’t conditioned properly before going from once a week packing me around the arena and around the block to 5-6 days of solid, hard work.. saddle fit issues, etc. he’s a paint, but definitely a thoroughbred throwback. long legged, lanky, and a back for days (and yeah, he’s gelded!) and very poorly muscled over his back.
during the time he was there he became increasingly defensive, more and more hollow backed, and more and more cranky. he’s one of the most honest, expressive horses i’ve ever had the pleasure to know, and he definitely lets you know as kindly as possible when he’s not happy about something. i suggested to the trainer when we started having girth kicking, resistance, and tail wringing issues that perhaps his back hurt, and that he needed to see a chiropractor, and she poo-pooh’d the idea, saying he was just being a dick and needed to be pushed through it, resorting to putting him in a german martingale (which, now, i regret deeply. once we found out the extent of what he was going through i can only imagine how much more pain it caused him to be forced into a frame by the martingale. it didn’t correct his carriage or his resistance, either)…
brought him home from the trainers, kept working with him. had her come out a couple of times to work with him and he began to crow hop with her. my gut still said something was very wrong, because this guy was saddled off and on routinely from 18 months old (never sat on until 3) and never once bucked. it was so unlike him that i kept thinking something was wrong – he was a happy, obliging guy and the pissiness was so counterintuitive that it just didn’t make any sense.
but i figured, she had the velcro butt and that much more experience than me. how i was to learn that the trainers with velcro butts aren’t the ones who pay the consequences of not listening to horses – the owners who do not have velcro butts are the ones that do.
we kept up with the running through the bridle, tail wringing, and general grumpiness about riding. my colt who used to come to the gate every time i pulled up to the barn now turned his hind end to me and walked back to the herd, uninterested. if he ran through the bridle, we’d circle circle circle, hike up the martingale, circle more, meanwhile, more tail wringing and hollow backed movement. i discovered he was muscle sore in his hamstrings, but it didn’t seem like enough to make him so angry. my trimmer had issues with him being unwilling to flex his hind legs forward and backward. all the writing was on the wall….
approximately four months after having him home from the trainers my trimmer and i decided to go for a trail ride. just an easy hack around the block, no big deal, we did it every weekend. around the corner from her house where the horses are kept i relaxed and quit riding basically. we were talking, and my horse’s head was low and his ears were forward, completely relaxed. at the time i was very overweight and didn’t have very good control of my upper body, and at one point as i was talking, my weight shifted back in the saddle and apparently put too much pressure on his lumbar region. he exploded. head down, bellowing, rodeo style buck the saddle off exploded. all i remember is the sheer shock of my 16hh gentle boy going straight up in the air and forward into the hardest buck i’ve ever seen out of a horse, and me hitting the ground right on my left shoulder blade. the force with which i hit the ground from six feet in the air made me feel like perhaps i’d fractured my shoulder blade, but xrays showed later that i’d actually separated my ac joint. thus far it’s been the most painful experience of my riding career.
the next day, as i was in bed nursing my shoulder, my friend had the chiropractor out and she suggested he look at my horse. as the chiropractor ran the tester over his lumbar region, his hind end hit the ground he was so out and so sore. i have never been so completely humbled in my life… and from that single experience i learned to always always always listen to my horse above everyone else, even if they think they know better, or i’m paying them. the horse will always tell you. it’s not personal with them – they don’t stand around thinking of how they’re going to entertain themselves by being a ‘dick’ ‘bitch’ ‘pain in the ass’ or otherwise plan shenanigans to get your goat. there is always a reason. they are remarkably logical beings in their own right. i’m amazed by good boy held it together as long as he did, given how much pain he was in. i’ve also noticed since that the more observant i am, and the more i address and listen to him, the more he trusts me. this applies to mornings when i go out, and he is resistant to working, or has a great deal of tension in his face or simply says ‘i don’t feel up to this today’ and i say ‘ok’ and turn him out to graze instead. 100% of the time, the next day he is extra eager to work and more than willing to try something new. it’s a huge give and take, but over the last six months we’ve developed a stronger bond as a result of listening to one another. i’m still the boss – there are still times when he is resistant to one thing or another and i have to push him through it, but it usually stems from some mistake i made as opposed to something he’s doing specifically.
what it comes down to is respecting the animal that is your partner – even if you ride 10 different horses a week, for the period you’re on their back, they are your partner in that moment. they are living, breathing, thinking beings with feelings and bodies that hurt the same way our own do. when you take time to give them consideration and respect, it’s not lost on them and far more is accomplished in a surprsingly shorter period of time than would be if you just drilled endlessly.
Thank you for sharing that. I’m so sorry you had to get hurt to figure it out, but glad you did figure it out and both you and your horse are back on track now.
thank you, but i’m not sorry i got hurt. not at all… it was a lesson i needed to learn, and by golly, knowing my horse the way i do, what it took for him to teach me in the way he did was quite a bit. i feel terrible still that he was hurting as badly as he was and i didn’t listen to him OR my gut and get it fixed faster.
c’est la vie though right? live and learn, and now, i’m far more sensitive to his needs and our partnership is far better for it. now i watch some of these bad riding videos and cringe at all the little ways horses tell their riders they’re in pain and they don’t get listened to. very hard to watch.
ok i really need help with my horse. She is a 9 year old arabian mare. who i basically have had problems with since i have owned her, going on 5 years now. Background on her : bought her, she was already in training, my parents were talked into keeping her with that trainer though i was against it. Then i fell under that spell of what is right (but is really really wrong – this was when i was 12/13 i have now learned, and totally regret it all) I worked with the trainer and my horse a few times a week, then the other days it was just the trainer. ( i am almost 100% sure she was REALLY abused by the trainer those days) Finally the trainer got kicked out of the facility. Then i was left with a psycho horse. No one believed or understood why i kept her. I honestly dont know why either. She would bite/kick/pin me against the stall wall, take off with me, run me over, knock me out. you name it she did it. A good trainer came in and tried to help, but i finally called it quits with that trainer and left the facility as the politics, and stress, and the previous owners of Belle made it impossible for me. After moving i finally had my horse back, my smart, easy to get along with, well mannered horse, because i could actually work with her in a calm state and in a calm manner. Then we had a freak accident where she flipped head over heels on top of me. It took time for her and me to heal and when we did we both remembered the accident. Now i feel like i’m almost all over it, and she is completely over it. the accident happened when we were cantering and she started to try to gallop as i was barrel racing. So since then i really cant go faster then a slowwwwwww canter as im still nervous. Because of her “breaking” experience belle cannot be tied, and cannot be saddled without a huge fuss. — also really cinchy.
Now – she is back to that psycho horse. I know its not her previous bad training (unless that floats into her mind. some days i think it does)… The other day i left the barn unable to walk, and in insane pain because she started bucking/rearing while i was on her. An imaginary something spooked her, and i asked for her to put her head down, using very soft hands then she starting flipping her head up (another thing that came from that trainer), so i walked her in circles. She then started pushing on the bit, and prancing, so i asked her to stop and back and stand still for a second. She then became very panicky and trying to take off, and constantly flipping her head, she nailed me hard once. — ALl of this while on her. So i finally got off, and walked her back to the barn, where she kept shoving into me and stepping on my foot. While unbridling, she reared catching the bit in her mouth, which freaked her out more, and she ran off before i could pull on the lead around her neck. After i caught her again and haltered and untacked her as i was grooming her she kicked me (in my bad leg- leg she fell on during our accident) making it so i couldn’t walk.
I put her away, fed the horses, and left. i kept working her through the week but never rode her, just kept it to lunging. Which even with that she wasn’t my good girl horse. I know all horses have bad days, but i worked SO long to get her to be good, that i dont and cant take it if i go back to that “psycho” horse. I know it has to be pain, i also know i probably am doing little things that irritate her. I will get help with my riding, but i need help with what could be bothering her.
Health – UTD on wormer, farrier, vaccines. Teeth last floated early 2009.
Tack – Alamo barrel saddle, semi-QH bars. Reinsmen saddle pad (neoprene backing?),, neoprene girth (had for 3-4 years) & simple snaffle bit.
Ideas anyone?
Sorry for writing a book but if i’m going to get help you need to know it all!!! Thank you all!
One piece of information: Is she nicer in the winter than the summer?
Wow, the reincarnation of my beloved Paint Mare from Hell (RIP Candy 1965–1981).
I’d start evaluating this girl by a good vet exam; I agree there could well be pain somewhere. I wonder if she isn’t having “female problems.” If humans can get painful ovarian cysts, why can’t mares?
I’d also consider a chiropractic exam and treatment.
I can understand where your heart is with this horse. Candy was the worst horse, positively dangerous with her rearing habit. I couldn’t ride her with a ported/shanked bit at all. She was cinchy as hell. Sadly, hindsight is 20/20 and she was probably an excellent candidate for chiropractic care which wasn’t around in the 1970s. But I knew if I gave up on her, if I sold her, she’d end up in a can, simple as that. I was a mere 12 years old when we bought her, and I used her for gaming during my teen years.
Good luck!
A few things jump out at me in your story. When you bought the mare she was a good girl and you kept her with the same trainer. So, I would say that her behavior most likely has nothing to do with abuse on the part of the trainer unless the trainer randomly started abusing the horse just because you bought her. I do believe that the mare had a pain issue that came up and the trainer did not recognize it.
Another part of the story involves her flipping her head and jigging, and then you making her stop and back up. That is a very good way to flip a horse over backwards. I am not placing blame for you previous accident… I’m just begging you to please not try that again.
This mare needs a dentist to look in her mouth and a full vet evaluation. Part of the vetting should include flex tests and perhaps radiographs of her knees, fetlocks, and feet in the front legs. The vet may also recommend an ultrasound to check for ovarian cysts. Her behavior could very well be because of bone chips, OCD lesions, navicular syndrome, mouth pain, coffin bone bruising, arthritis in her neck, or female problems. Only your vet can help you figure this out. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not ride this mare until you figure out this mystery… her behaviors are very dangerous and you are putting yourself in an unreasonably risky situation if you get on her.
I forgot to mention ulcers. Her behavior is pretty extreme for ulcers to be the entire problem but they could be contributing.
I am probably a bad rider.
Today I sold my too-much-for-me horse after realizing that the whole “staying on is good enough” approach just isn’t cutting it. I’m going to take some lessons, for the first time ever.
Thinking about using Rachel Rauls (maiden name Gullickson) of Rio, Wisconsin for lessons and later maybe training my 3 year old. ANybody heard anything good or bad about her? She participated in a recent Mustang Challenge I think. Nothing on circuit court access except speeding tickets and a divorce. Here’s her website: http://worldcenterequestrian.com/ Comments? Observations? Her rate is $550 a month for breaking and board plus a couple of lessons, or $35 an hour for lessons on her horses or yours– is this fair? It sounds great to me, but I have no idea!
That sounds like a decent price for what you’re looking for. You could try just googling her name or farm to see if anyone has said anything about it, or if she has a FB or some kind of social networking site to ask on. You could also audit a lesson or go to a show she’ll be at and watch how she works.
My mare had issues that have largely vanished since I’ve been treating her for navicular. Mainly, she’ll walk down hills now and is much quieter in the ring (which is uneven, she used to get frantic when you tried to make her use a steady pace). I couldn’t believe the difference in her behavior. She’s always been a bit of a freak anyway but the level of freakiness went way down.
@FHOTD
Sorry, I didn’t mean by literally dropping the reigns. He could step on them and then I could end up in the hospital! XD I would love trainer suggestions if you have any! I live in the Salt Lake City area right now. 2 trainer names I have are Shawna Hatch (her first name could be spelled Shauna not Shawna, I don’t know) who is in the American Fork area I believe. I’ve been mainly thinking going to her because she’s very renowned in the 4h and POA pony world. She’s very close by me and teaches English riding (which is rare in Utah, or at least feels like it). I don’t know her too much, but I know her daughter, Jocelyn pretty well. But she’s highly requested and I don’t know if I’ll be able to get in. The second trainer would be Clara Grange. She was actually my very first trainer, but I had to quit with her because she moved to Spanish Fork, which is way too far away. If I went back to her I’d probably board down there and then just commute, but Shawna is the much more desirable prospect. If you have any info on these trainers or any other trainers I’d love to hear about it!
@Marjie Newton
I see now what you guys mean about the tug ‘o war thing! I really like this suggestion and I’ll try with this technique as well! We made a LOT of mistakes training my horse, so it wouldn’t surprise me a single bit if this is a result of my riding, aka heavy hands (and probably a bunch of other things).
I have a friend in SLC so let me ask her if she has any good ideas!
This is all too fucking depressing for words. I think I need to give up my horses and take up knitting.
Someone needs to SMACK the first rider’s trainer and put her back in a RELEASE — from how loose her legs and seat are, all that’s keeping her on the horse is the death grip on the horse’s mouth. She has no business trying to jump on contact. Heck, she needs a stirrup leather around the horse’s neck to keep her from expecting the horse to haul her with its mouth.
;P
I’ve gone through several pain issues with my mare and each one has been a lesson unto itself. Because she was young and green when i got her, it was sometimes hard to separate pain from “I-don’t-get-it” frustration. But it’s the consistency of the behavior that gives me the clue – if it kept happening even if I backed off and asked for something I knew she’d learned, I began to suspect pain.
I had some saddle fit issues early on because she was young and growing still and work was changing her muscling. I felt so bad the first time she outgrew a saddle because I didn’t see it until it was causing pain, evidenced by some reluctance to trot, then some tail-swishing and finally a full-blown rear. Luckily I have an awesome saddle fitter who walked me through some of the basics of saddle fit – I will not attempt to fit a saddle to my horse but I do check every single time I put her saddle on to make sure it’s not pinching anywhere. As soon as the next one began feeling off, I called him back up and we fitted another. I’m now on my fourth saddle and I think (hope!) she’s stopped growing.
After that issue was resolved, I realized that she had trouble walking down hills. Initially I thought she was just jigging with excitement (since I mostly rode arenas, I didn’t see the behavior often and in the arena, I didn’t notice anything) but when I began hacking around the property which is hilly, it became very obvious. She walked down a hill like a camel. At that point, I realized she was also slightly stiff in one direction. I got the chiro out and he found areas in her back that were quite sore, probably left over from the poorly fitting saddle. Next time we went down a hill, she flew down it at a beautiful, long-strided, happy walk.
And finally, I was riding one day when I could just tell she wasn’t right. My daughter was with me – she watched her move while I ride and couldn’t see anything. I dismounted and had her walk and jog her for me and couldn’t really see anything either but just had the gut sensation that there was something off in the near fore. No heat, no swelling, no lameness but I wasn’t happy – took her to the barn, hosed it, put her up. Next day, she had a slight swelling of her ankle but rest and icing cleared it up quickly.
I think that’s where really knowing your horse comes in because I might have kept riding and injured her worse had I not known something was off. The better I get to know her (I’ve had her 2 years now) the better I am at recognizing when she’s off or in pain.
The other things is though, I ALWAYS give her a pretty thorough once-over every time I work her. During her grooming, I run hands over legs, check around fetlocks, keep an eye out for sores or rubbed spots, check shoes, etc. and as I said, I check the fit of all my tack. Every time. I’d rather take a little extra time than have her flip out – because she will. She’s a prima donna, the classic Princess and the Pea, and if there’s one thing off – even something as minor as a strand of mane under her saddle blanket – you’d think she was dying. lol
She throws her head as well and used to slip her tongue – I think it’s more a way for her to try and avoid the bit. At first I thought it was an issue with one of her eyes, but there was nothing wrong with either eye.
I will look into getting her an adjustment and also have her ears looked at – thank you Fugly and Kirri =)
FUGLY, the horse is LYING on its side not LAYING! This is a common mistake, but I expect more of fugly. ‘Laying’ is a transitive verb (takes an object)…for example one ‘lays’ bricks but LIES on a couch.
You got me!
I hate the word Anthropomorphism but its a problem… Some people use the term and idea to strip animals down to nothing more than souless reactional machines. Others project their own feelings and ideas onto their animals so badly that they become completely blind to how their animal is actually feeling. Of course some people just plain and simply don’t understand even basic body language. I see that a lot in the dogs and their people that I work with and I find arguing with or even educating damn near futile.
I’m in the middle of one of those situations right now – trying to tell someone diplomatically that what they’re doing is causing bad behavior in the animals, while they’re insisting the animal is the problem. It’s been more than one animal for this person (a dog, now a horse) that this has happened with.
How does one make it clear to bull-headed people that they can’t mis-use their toys until they break, then whine that the toy is defective? (Sorry, it’s the clearest analogy I have for the situation.)
Any time a human being tries to say that a horse never ever experiences a common human emotion or does things for the same reason a person would do them, without any verification whatsoever, I call bullshit. Sometimes horses ARE just crabby. Sometimes they are just lazy. Sometimes they would rather be under the big oak tree in the pasture swapping gossip just like sometimes you would rather call in to work. But also just like people, they get groceries because they work, and sometimes their preferences are not the boss’s preferences. That’s not anthropomorphizing, it’s using empathy and common sense to make judgments about another mammal, a member of the animal kingdom who is different from you in important ways but also not entirely unlike you.
Which is not to say that your point is entirely without merit. When a horse consistently hates his job, the first thing to ask is if there’s a physical reason for it. Well, maybe that’s the second thing to ask. The first thing to ask is what dumbass thing the rider is doing to annoy the horse. Assuming the rider is not being a dumbass, and the horse is not in pain, there’s still the real possibility that the horse just plain doesn’t like his job. Speaking for myself, I believe a horse who loves his job is worth his weight in gold and a horse who hates his job spoils the fun for everyone – but it’s understandable that when a horse is very talented at something he hates, some humans are going to make him do it whether he enjoys it or not.
Sure. And sometimes your point is related to mine. For example, if you try to force a long-backed, downhill built, long strided horse to play arena polo, guess what, he’s going to wind up sore and pissy a fair amount of the time. He’s not built for the job the rider selected for him, and as a result he gets sore. The same horse might not be the least bit pissy or sore doing a job he’s more conformationally suited for. You see a lot of people trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.
I use your analogy all the time…I consider my horses employees. I do expect them to respect authority and do a job assuming they are sound and capable of doing a job. In exchange, they get a pretty cushy life, with full benefits. The rescues? Well, they’re ex-employees of someone who was too shitty to give them a decent retirement, so I’m filling the gap and all they have to do is be cute, which they are!
“Any time a human being tries to say that a horse never ever experiences a common human emotion or does things for the same reason a person would do them, without any verification whatsoever, I call bullshit.”
I know! I have always wanted to go back and challenge my biology profs to explain EXACTLY the logic behind the idea that we alone evolved emotions and thoughts. Perhaps we are the only ones who are truely self-aware (that means that we are aware that we are self-aware,) but I honestly think that emotions are a primitive form of thought and the more complicated a brain gets the more advanced its emotions and thought processes become. Can’t prove that of course but it seems logical.
I know the reason why my biology prof’s approched animal thought and emotion the way they did though. Religion has taught for maybe thousands of years that we are different from them, they are souless brute beasts. At one time they even preached that they didn’t even feel pain… The noise the dog made when you kicked him was a kin to the noise the clock made if you kicked it. I always found it amusing that these hell bent evolution crusaders failed to see that. I should have said something to them just to watch their brains explode haha!
Fugs I am SOO sorry if this breaks out the evolution vrs religion debate! I’m not trolling for that.
LOL hey, we love controversy here. Won’t bother me if it went that direction as long as it didn’t turn into you’re going to HELL/you’re a MORON. I expect we can all debate things like intelligent creatures.
“I know the reason why my biology prof’s approched animal thought and emotion the way they did though. Religion has taught for maybe thousands of years that we are different from them, they are souless brute beasts. At one time they even preached that they didn’t even feel pain… The noise the dog made when you kicked him was a kin to the noise the clock made if you kicked it.”
They were arguing from a religious perspective that animals don’t feel pain?! Holy crap! I grew up Christian and attended a Christian college, and never heard anything of the sort – quite the contrary, actually. I was taught that they’re God’s creation as much as humans are, and if we’re going to have ‘dominion’ over animals (aka keeping them as pets, beasts of burden, or food animals) we’d damn well better do right by them. Even the resident bully didn’t try to pick on his family’s dogs – there was a tremendous amount of respect and friendship for animals in that household, so he saved his nastiness for other humans.
My OTTB was a race horse, then he was a jumper, then he actually got his basics down and was an event horse (9s for his trot at his first show! Woot!). Then I had two kids and was panicking at the thought of a cross rail. One the sanest, safest jumping horse I’d ever encountered and I was just petrified (like my fear of heights – no reason, it just is). He was MISERABLE only doing flat work, even if there were ground poles. He did the flatwork but he was unhappy and grouchy. This wasn’t helped by my infrequent riding schedule. I sold him to a woman that was looking for a safe eventer. Now he’s doing three-phase eventing and he’s happy. Sometimes your employees have to find another job…
I disagree with your first statement. Horses are pretty logical creatures who always have a reason for their behavior. I do not believe that a normally hard-working horse is “just being lazy” or that a horse is just pissy cause they are in a bad mood. Every time I hear someone say these sort of statements it seems to be an excuse to make a horse work through discomfort or do something that they are not confident doing because the training is not where it needs to be. Yes, some horses are lazy by nature or unruly by nature, but what I am referencing is the idea that they have random mood swings or wake up on the wrong side of the bed.
I grew up riding a Laminitic mare so learned early on the signs of a horse in pain, that’s not to say we didn’t learn the hard way – and our girl was definitely ridden sore due to our inexperience, but I like to think the tens of thousands spent in vet care made up for early blunders. We learned early on distinctions between bad behaviour and pain, we had a very naughty pony and initially it was hard to spot the difference between her napping due to boredom/mischief and napping due to feet – but once you know the animal, you can tell by the small signs – ears, tail, attitude. Sounds awfully obvious, but it’s a skill that I think all riders (who own their own horses) should have – being able to notice the subtle changes in your horse.
It’s been a long time since that mare and thankfully, I’ve rarely had many who are sore when ridden. However 4 years ago, my Standardbred mare had been wearing a new saddle, with my friend riding her. My friend is around 7 stone and she had ridden without fault in this saddle. Later in the ride, we swapped horses and my mare immediately started napping, dancing and misbehaving. She ditched me almost immediately. Knowing my mare, this wasn’t normal behaviour. I stripped the saddle off, hopped on bareback, no complaints. Her normal saddle, being worn by my other horse, I swapped over, got on, and back to her normal, mostly perfect (heh) self.
The problem was the saddle, despite being a reasonable fit – it was not a fitted saddle. For a light rider, this proved no problems. I’m a heavyset rider, my weight on a saddle that didn’t fit perfectly, pinched her. In many ways I was proud of both myself and my mare. Myself in that I realised that it wasn’t her, again it might sound silly, but I’ve seen horses in pain who were forced on because the rider felt it was the horse playing up – and her in neatly throwing me and taking none of this pain nonsense. It was one of the most tidy throws I’ve ever had, just a, hey, I’m sore, fix me.
So I guess, another reason for pain and changes can be a different weight of rider in tack which might look like a great fit, but has problems. And it’s worth being aware of this, because some riders may view that situation as nothing changed, and thus it can only be the horse at fault.
I’d really like to know why so many horses are being ridden with flash or figure-8 nosebands. Whenever I see one, I always think (and no, I’m not a trainer, so really I don’t know what I’m talking about) that something’s gone wrong and the horse’s mouth is being strapped shut as a quick fix. I feel terrible for the handsome chestnut in the first video, and the horse’s expression in the last picture makes me want to cry.
I don’t know if there’s any kind of training available to keep your horse’s mouth shut. If there is I’d love to hear it.
The flash and figure 8 (I believe) serve the same purpose. There is also a dropped noseband which is basically just a noseband that goes in front of the bit. This is all just to keep the horse from opening his/her mouth. If the horse’s mouth is open they can’t connect with the bit.
Which leads to the question of how Western horses are on the bit without having even a regular noseband. You see the figure eights and flashes mostly in dressage and eventing so I assume it’s just the need for more connection with the horse.
I had an OTTB that we used a regular noseband and he was fine, and in all honesty he didn’t care when he got put into the flash (he is an ideopathic headshaker so we were trying for something on his nose to control the nerve).
From “Basic Training of the Young Horse” by Reiner and Ingrid Klimke: “The drop noseband keeps the horse’s mouth close, preventing him from playing too much with the bit, but allows him the freedom to move his lower jaw and chew the bit. The Flash noseban exerts slight pressure on the nasal bone.”
I don’t like people who put *everything* in a flash, drop or figure eight, and they really shouldn’t be necessary in dressage (and, in fact, are banned at the higher levels). What they are useful for is helping stop a horse from leaning on the bit or giving a little extra control without resorting to more hardware in the mouth (Cranks serve the same purpose, but I’ve only ridden in one ONCE and the horse now goes in a flash with the goal of eventually going back to the regular noseband…he’s a freight train and a stronger bit just made him pull MORE). I suspect a lot of the eventing types stick them on for the cross country to give a little bit extra ‘brakes’ when the horse gets excited. But I don’t believe in using anything but a regular noseband…and I’ve ridden without even that more than once and not had any issues, and yes, I ride English. (One of the issues I had with my first trainer was half the barn was in a flash/drop/figure eight…and three quarters were in martingales…)
2 years ago a friend and I broke my horse to drive. He was 26 at the time (just turned 28 and still thinks he’s 15…). He took to it like a duck to water. The cart wasn’t ideal, a bit short for him, but it was lightweight and he did fine. Last year I bought my own cart,heavier but better balanced. He did great, but one day in the Fall suddenly started backing off of it. He’d pull great once we were going, but balked at starting, This wasn’t normal; he loves to go. We noticed that despite being at the right place on his shoulder, the breast collar did seem to ride up on his neck a bit. being an Arab, his neck ties into his chest very deeply. So essentially the breast collar is pressing on the bottom of his airway. We dropped the breast collar a little lower on the hanger, and that helped, but to drop it any lower would put it at a bad part of his shoulder for pulling. We put a pad on it and that helped too, but it’s still not ideal.
So last week my friend / mentor and I put the collar on him and took all kinds of measurements and when I go out today I will mail a letter to an Amish harness maker she knows who does very nice work. Then Akela will have a custom-made breast collar, with a nice deep “V” in the front to give room for his neck and a false martingale to keep it there. (Called a false martingale as it doesn’t have anything to do with the bit; it’s just the bottom part that attaches the breast collar to the girth to keep the breast collar where it’s supposed to be.)
We were at a driving clinic a few weeks ago and noticed that every one of the Arabs that were driving had a “V” breastcollar, for the same reason. My friend / mentor had already decided that that would fix the issue, but this just reaffirmed it.
I’m also sending a letter to a cart maker to see about a lighter-weight cart. Easier for me (Easy Entry) and lighter for Akela, but with wooden wheels and a bit taller to fit him properly. His current cart fits him well, and is well balanced, but I would prefer to not have him pulling excess weight.
Then of course, we just need to remind him that just because the trotting is more fun, he actually CAN walk too. And yes, part of that could be caused by the harness fitting as when he’s trotting the cart kind of floats behind him where at a walk he feels it more, but it’s largely because he just prefers trotting anyway. Former distance horse. But he’s 28 and still loves being ridden so I’m not going to complain if I have to slow him down now and then.
My horse has had lots of issues…
When I first started riding him, he would be okay but the longer you rode the more cranky he would get. We finally figured out the girth we had been using was making him really cranky, because it was a straight girth. I bought a shaped one, and just like magic, he wasn’t cranky anymore!
Now he has been getting cranky again, and you can tell he is in pain (head up, ears back often, extra spooky, etc.) but we can’t find a saddle that fits him… We have had a pro fitter from County Saddles come and try one, and we found one that was perfect but it was just a little too small for me (long legs!) So the search continues, and I am riding in a borrowed saddle in the mean time, since mine doesn’t fit….
Tall narrow thoroughbred with flat sides and super high withers…. arg!
I know a lot of people hate synthetic but instead of spending $5000 on a custom saddle why not check out a Thorowgood high wither saddle? They have adjustable gullet bars, fish inserts to change the saddle a half size (or compensate for the muscle built up on one side and hollow on the other) and are reasonably priced. I swear by them.
AND.
I am not sure but I *think* they might have a leather version.
FYI, the T6 is not available in the US unless you want to pay +$650 to have it shipped from England.
I own an OTTB who had to have multiple chips removed from his knee at a 5yr old. He is sound, he is awesome, but some days his knee is sore. It is inevitable that he is developing arthritis. I know the days his knee is sore because he will do one of two things 1. Not want to take the bit when he is normally very eager to do so. Or 2. when I get on him, he is dead to my leg. He is normally pretty peppy. Did it take me a while to figure this out? Of course! But now that I know his signals I completely respect them. On the days that he is dead to my leg, we will just go on a quick trail ride and leave it at that. I am a huge proponent of listening to your horse and respecting what he has to say. riding is a partnership and your horse is bound to have feeling and options on his job.
So on that note, I am going to shamelessly advertise myself here and tell you that I am a trainer that is new to the PNW and am working on building up a new client base. I am a good instructor and I will be more than happy to provide multiple references. I specialize in Dressage and eventing, but if you want to ride in a western saddle and just feel safe and secure, I can help you there too. Send me a message!
3rd photo – pretty common training equip. at any Arab barn/show.
Martingale to get neck up. Draw reins to get nose in. Cavasan to keep mouth shut. Western saddle will be replaced with saddleseat saddle after warm-up is done. Saddle seat hands.
Ok I have a question then. How do you decide whether to take your horse to the vet or the chiropractor when you know he’s out?
My gelding is obviously out in his stifle, and i’m sure he also needs to be adjusted. But I’m not sure who to see about it first. Suggestions?
I do chiro first, but it’ll be interesting to see others’ answers.
Both at the same time is ideal, so that they can collaborate. If I have to choose one at a time I always go for the vet first.
I sense a train wreck… http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=14909735&cat=106&lpid=2&search=
“Buying Broodmares $100 cash paid!
I’m looking to buy broodmares for $100, doesn’t matter what breed, or size and no older then 15 years old, They must be halter broke, pick up all 4 feet, and load in a trailer, I would like if they are broke to ride but it doesn’t really matter, Doesn’t need to be registered, but I would like for them to be. I’m looking for any color, but would love paint, roans, buckskins, duns, or a grulla.
I’m asking $100 cash each because I’m 18 years old and can’t afford that much seening how gas is so much right now.. but I promise ll mares will be very well cared for, all vet work will be cared for. They will have electric watering system, Indoor barn for foaling, 160 acer grass pasture, Arena, Round Pen.. ect!
All broodmares must be easy to catch, They will be on a 160 acer pasture, I really don’t wanna chase a horse around in that pasture!”
…head explodes…
When I read something like that I just assume it is a Kill Buyer with another deceptive angle. If it really is someone buying broodmares, you have to wonder…
@FHOTD
Thanks so much! I await your reply. It doesn’t matter to me either way if you post it on here, but here’s my e-mail if it makes things easier. whiteroses_swords@yahoo.com
It’d be awesome to know some good trainer choices in the SLC area.
I thought it was amusing how many ‘comment removed’ notes there are on the second video. Removing any remarks critical of her riding, hmm?
When I was helping at a therapy stable we had a lady that had gone to some Linda Tellington Jones Clinics and those massage techniques really seemed to help the horses.
I’m currently trying to figure out what my four year old stallion is trying to tell me. I’ve noticed since I started ground driving him as a yearling that he doesn’t walk perfectly, he sets down his right hind a few inches outside the track of his right fore, and the left hind slightly inside the track of the left fore. I put it down to him being young. But now I ground drive him and notice his strides are inconsistent, one good step, setting the hind foot well in front of the track of the front, so a couple of mediocre, and suddenly a really short stride. Then some longer strides etc.
I started him under saddle last summer, mostly just letting him lug me around on trails on a long rein, just getting used to have a rider and moving forward on leg command. He wasn’t ridden very much as he was only three years, plus I was pregnant and stopped riding in my seventh month. Now I’ve gotten on him for the first time since September, and I’m not quite happy. He really doesn’t want to bend left, he falls inn over his shoulder and I can’t get him out on a proper circle.
Possibly unrelated, but he also developed an ugly “lump” partway down his throat. I can’t figure out what is causing it, it is visible when you look at his profile, but I can’t feel anything when I squeeze the area. The vet didn’t comment on it last she was there, but I of course also forgot to ask her about it either…
I’ve signed us up for a clinic that hopefully will help the riding issues, but what could be causing the uneven strides? Is he simply young and not strong enough, or could it be something else? I’m playing with the thought of getting out an equine masseur, do you guys think it might help, or just be money out the window? This boy is my dream horse, and I so badly want to do right by him. And right now something isn’t working properly.
I’d be calling a chiro (an equine masseuse might be able to fix it too). That SOUNDS like out in the hip to me. No idea on the lump, though.
Could be conformation, could be that he is not releasing cleanly in the bridle, could be chiropractic related, but could also be a mild neuro sign (usually EPM would be the first suspect). What he does sounds a bit like “dog-walking” by your description.
My horse twisted her pelvis by taking a bad step in the wash about a year ago and was extremely lame for over 6 months. Now she’s sound and we’re starting to ride on a regular basis again. She’s checked by a massage therapist and a chiropractor (who is also a vet) on a monthly basis; both people have said that she isn’t sore and is improving with every visit. She’s learned that when I ride her if she bucks and pins her ears and swishes her tail I’ll either get off or will not ask her to do more than walk. She used to be sore when I asked for more than a walk, but I know now that she’s messing with me. My trainer will get on and she acts perfectly, my trainer is sensitive about her injury, so I know she’s not going to ride her lame. She only acts “sore” with me, she’ll throw a temper tantrum for a few minutes than be good till we switch directions and she’ll throw another fit than be good the rest of the ride. These hissy fits happen only when I ask her to trot or lope.
The videos you showed us clearly showed sore horses, but my horse isn’t sore; just lazy. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on this and get advice on how to improve our rides so my horse and I can have enjoyable rides
More on topic, there was a nice black gelding at the barn I volunteered at years ago. He got steadily worse in temper in the stall, and suddenly turned dangerous when trying to saddle him. He was checked out, and diagnosed with four! herniated disks in his spine! No wonder he was mad, the pain must have been unbelievable. He was humanely put down right after, poor guy.
I noticed the flattened ears right off the bat. I had to watch it again to catch the tail wringing (something I’m still catching on to).
It always bothered me when a friend of mine (when I was eight) said that she was going to ride her horse without lessons. I mean, I want to ride properly to make sure I don’t ruin my horse, get myself or my horse injured in something preventable, and learn things the right way. Last I heard, her horse (a Western horse, if I remember correctly) decided to spin in a circle. I don’t know if that had to do with poor riding or if she gave the wrong command or what.
Its been years since I last rode, but I have a couple of questions. I was not the greatest rider on the planet and I had issues looking at my horse’s ears instead of looking ahead. Every horse I rode would always trip, not bad enough to cause injury to either of us…but is there any way I can prevent that from happening (and, yes, we were in a flat arena)?
When you lean forward, which I suspect you do, you over-weight the horse’s front end and you just make tripping that much more likely. Leaning forward is my personal #1 riding flaw, so I’m very familiar with how hard it is to fix! It really is about riding – getting your shoulders back, and keeping the horse’s front end elevated and his weight balanced properly…if you lean forward and he’s dragging himself around on the forehand, tripping is very common and so is falling.
I’m working on the ‘look at the horse’s head’ thing. And turning too much to the inside during circles…so, yeah. Head UP, shoulders BACK and a little bit more inside leg to get the hind end stepping further under the horse…if it’s happening with multiple horses, though, you’re likely the one who’s unbalanced.
I think you just answered your own question. What Cathy says about position is correct, and one thing to remember is that your head is proportionally a much heavier part of your body than you realize. It’s not physically possible to have a bad head position and a good body position, and if you’re looking down instead of forward, your head is in a bad position. It will drag your entire spine forward and that will cause your leg to be in the wrong place and the legs being out of place will cause you to use your hands badly, until because of one little problem with your eyes, everything is bad. But, fortunately, because it does have such a well defined cause, should be easy to fix!
Re: the last photo
I’m sorry, but if you need that much shit to control a horse then you seriously shouldn’t be riding one.
That is just plain unnecessary cruelty and you can see by the pissy look on the poor horse’s face that he really is quite uncomfortable. It’s obviously acceptable though because there are other people there and no-one seems terribly bothered by it and if they think it makes the horse look fancy then they’re as delusional as they are stupid.
As for the videos, those people need some lessons in commonsense horse management and a good hard slap.
By far one of the best training tools is having your teacher take photos or videos of your riding. When you are first learning, it can be hard for some people to connect the verbal direction with your body. Hopefully some of these people in these bad riding videos will see their mistakes and work to correct them.
I’m not convinced the first horse is in pain so much as he/she is upset. I got to watch the video in slow motion, thanks to my computer being dumb, and the horse pricks his/her ears before every jump except the last one (obviously). I watched the rider, and she doesn’t give at all. She humps her shoulders, and barely releases over the jumps. She is riding around braced on her horse’s mouth. She also barely uses her leg and seems stiff with her back and seat. *guess what I get yelled at for?*
And I called the last fence at the corner, yikes.
This being said, I don’t know the fit of the saddle, or the condition of the horse, or anything else.
I just call it as I see it, and there is no good evidence to support constant manual work on the spine and joints as a treatment for pain. The results we saw in some of the horses was incredible. Tag ended up being out at the pole and a few places in his back. When she hit the main one in his back he let out the largest sigh of relief and proceded to dose off head right down to the ground for the rest of the appointment. While there is a place for spinal manipulation in this world, it has a very, very narrow therapeutic threshold and should never be done over and over every time there is pain. There is a lot of research being done right now in the realm of manipulation that is showing that with long term use of this treatment, we see atrophy and decline of the small but vitally important tiny intrinsic muscles of the spine. (If you say this to your chiro they will probably curl up into the fetal position and begin rocking back and forth, so be careful when bringing this up. It’s sort of debunking their entire profession within the rehabilitation world.) If you want to solve this problem once and for all, get to the root of it, don’t just have someone adjust it every few weeks. Thanks for sharing this interesting this topic.
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I would be willing to bet that in the first video, the girl is in France, taking a riding lesson at a riding center, riding a lesson horse. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure I hear them speaking in French with a French accent (as opposed to Canadian, etc) and seeing that it’s a group with everyone standing around waiting their turn to take a now-cooled off horse over the jumps, it definitely looks like everything I’m disappointed about in the French lesson system. They let people go on to the next thing (whether that be cantering when you’ve only done walk-trot, jumping, or raising the jumps…) way too soon without taking the time to really instill good basics, and as this video so clearly demonstrates, the horses pay the price. I do think that some people in the US baby their horses and riders (I definitely babied my horses) but when I ride in a lesson, it’s very clear who learned on a bareback pad and loose reins and was not allowed to move on to something else until the basics were right, and who was jumping at the end of their first year in lessons… ‘kay, stepping off my soap box now.
The other two videos are so blatantly train wrecks in the making that they don’t even need any commenting, but the picture at the end reminds me of the method that “LDR” proponents suggest people use on their dressage horses to make them go with their heads sucked back into rollkur position (yeah, but without force! they say). The method is to use double reins, using a running martingale adjusted MUCH shorter than normal, so that it works like a pulley.
I wanted to mention to as many people as possible, there is a lady named Pia Munck who created a forum in French awhile back to teach people “the correct way to train and ride your horse.” I’m not going to say that all the information is bad, but unless you’re into rollkur, don’t get sucked into believing that she has all the answers. She leads her flock of groupies as though she were some sort of guru, and her forum were a cult. I don’t know that I’m knowledgeable enough about biomechanics to say, “rollkur and LDR are wrong” (even if that’s what I believe) BUT I do believe that there are always different methods that allow you to have the same results. I really don’t appreciate her disdain of any training method that is not LDR (ie classical dressage riding; she says that Nuna Oliveira only ever achieved “fake lightness”) Anyway, all this because I recently saw her messages all over American and Canadian FB, etc pages, trying to find new followers in North America, and I would hope that people would spread the word, especially to young, easily influenced riders, that what she is teaching is rollkur, and it’s not the only way.
This is a journey I’ve been going through myself for the past year and a half:
My gelding is soon to be 22 and in excellent shape (joints, mentally etc). Unfortunately during my teens life events kept me from seeing him or riding more than once a week, and that continued for about 8 years. In the meantime my trainer took care of him, no one (supposedly) rode him and my friend occasionally got him out for extra grooming etc. I thought he led a fairly good life and would be in good shape to return to work when i moved him closer to be close to 2 years ago. At first everything went fine but he just seemed so thin and rather “bleh” emotionally. This from the round, muscled fiesty dragon I used to know. People said “Oh it’s because he’s older. it happens” I’m so glad I didn’t accept that as a valid answer!!!
He was known even during the years we showed to bolt, brace against the bit, shake his head, grunt alot, buck…. you name it. I was the only one who could stay on him & wasn’t afraid. I accepted it as part of his rebellious personality and never considered he was tyring to TELL ME SOMETHING.
I met the right people in the past year.
*A barefoot trimmer who has more knowledge and connections than I’ve seen in a long time. She identified a ton of problems with his body and we have been working on nutrition, hoof condition, muscle therapy.
*An excellent chiropractor who discovered he has a jaw misalignment (who knew?) and reccommended -
*A top equine dentist for the east coast to figure out this TMJ issue
So come to find out my horse bucked alot because he sustained a spinal injury somewhere around 8 years ago that turned into a roach back/hunters bump, 4 lumbar vertebre twisted to the right, 1 twisted to the left. OWWY The lumbar problems led to Sacral joint problems – the joint that moves the most at canter = VOILA! Canter and lead problems + bucking! Which led to sore stifles from compensating. And a crooked pelvis.
We’re addressing it though and I’m seeing improvement already.
He also developed severe muscle atrophy from my AP Wintec I rode in for 10 years. Don’t ignore the suggestions of refitting/reflocking saddles every 3-6 years like I did!
As he gets better, grow muscle and can eat better (with his jaw problem being addressed) he’s losing that “skinny” look now. And now that he knows I LISTEN to him he carries a much more contented look on his face when we’re together. I can’t even begin to express the changes in his personality (or what he lets me see) since I started listening!
This all happened during the time we owned him. And my mother and myself are not by any means cruel or inexperienced – we were just clueless. There is not enough info out there sometimes. Do research! I would bet there are a majority of horses out there who aren’t really “bad” – just trying to tell their human something is WRONG.
Great post!
Some pertinent information about the “Olivia Home” video:
I’m familiar with this chick, Jayd, from the time that I was slightly addicted to You Tube and she constantly brags about how she quit lessons years ago because all instructors are discouraging and mean and how they don’t understand her “unique riding style.” Some time ago she left school to become a professional rider and the tail-wringing mare in the video is a client’s horse — that’s right, she’s being paid and sponsored to ride like this. And it’s not just this horse, either. The riding is always atrocious. By the way, she also has 2,600+ subscribers constantly telling her how awesome she is and that she’s an inspiration, completely ignoring her chair seat, swinging leg, and constant propensity to ride a horse backwards from her heavy, uneducated hand. She is NOT the riding role model aspiring equestrians need.
And again…we see why so many effed up horses wind up in rescue…because people believe that girl is a trainer who can make their horse better.
Why use a running martingale WHILE using the draw reins???? I dont understand that one. Use one or the other not both.. sounds like insecurity problems in the rider. Poor horse.
As far as “the weight issue”, chiropracty, and horse pain:
I recently rode again fr srs after a nearly-four-year hiatus of only putzing around, after I’d sustained serious injuries in the non-horsey world. During those four years, I put on thirty pounds, and I discovered I ride *better* now. I think the horse can actually feel me on his back now!
Has no one else been a teenage girl in the h/j (and, increasingly, dressage and even eventing) world? Has no one else read “Little Girls In Pretty Boxes” and felt a strong parallel?
I wasn’t, am not, and will never be “a girly girl” — I was always athletic and tough and didn’t care about my appearance or boys (well, no surprise on the last one, but whatever). I cared more about horses. I had a rickety home life, but I wasn’t “bad” or crazy. However, I learned to ride and rode for some time at a big h/j barn, where “thin was in” — and in the name of “fitness” I was anorexic from ages 15 through 20. I stand almost 5’7″ and at one point weighed 106 pounds. That was a size 00 in riding breeches.
I starved myself carefully, eating tiny meals as opposed to not eating at all, and I stayed very fit by running, weight training, doing yoga and pilates and other stretching-type exercises for at least two hours a day — on top of all my horse work (stalls — typically 3-5 a day — feeding, watering, lugging hay bales, grooming, then riding without stirrups, drilling myself in equitation, etc.) So I looked great in those 0-00 breeches, and everyone congratulated me on how “fit” and “healthy” I was. How “elegant” I looked in the saddle.
I was eating nothing but organic, lightly cooked (with no oil) vegetables and a cup of plain brown rice for my lunches or dinners, pieces of fruit now and again when my energy flagged, half a protein bar twice a day — you get the picture. I never drank, even soda, or smoked. I swore off sugar and salt. All this stuff that’s supposed to be really super healthy for you!
Surprise. I felt terrible, although I mentally bullied myself, because I was “being healthy” and thus felt my pain was “weakness” or “brattiness.” While I was convinced I was the epitome of fitness, righteous living, and good health, my actual physical health declined, and I began fainting. I fainted once just standing around in a tack store, and hit my head, causing a brain injury. Slowly my balance eroded, as my body began using my brain tissue when it couldn’t get calories anywhere else — which didn’t help the brain injury. All of this caused anxiety, which made my balance problems worse.
Meanwhile, I had (and still have) a horse I loved, and he’s been with me since he was a yearling. He’s a TB, with strong racing and eventing bloodlines (though his dad was not a successful racehorse himself), and since I was so small, people always told me I couldn’t possibly hurt him in the saddle. I was as light, then lighter than most jockeys, right? ANd I rode well, with good balance and soft hands. Because he was a young and fit horse (although never crazy; I’ve talked here before about how easy and perfect he was to start), trainers advised me “not to give him an inch” and “to ride him through any problems he might give you.”
So one day I tacked him up, ignoring the fact that he was acting completely out of character (snorting, hunching his back, blowing, prancing); mounted at my mothers’ and surrounding trainers’ advice but against my best instincts; and was immediately bucked off into a wall. A behavior which this horse continued to do to everyone who mounted him, for the next year.
I was hurt pretty badly, because I had no fat reserves to cushion my fall, but again I pretended nothing was wrong and powered through it. I immediately listened to my instincts about the horse, though, and knew my his behavior was caused by pain (although everyone else insisted otherwise and he quickly gained the reputation of “that insane redhead Thoroughbred she never should have bought”).
Sure enough, he had a sore back, and massage, saddle refitting, and lots of patient gentle work alleviated both his physical pain and his mental anxiety — he’d kept bucking even after the ouchy stopped because he anticipated that he’d feel pain, and he needed lots of love and gentleness to remind him that he was fine. (I credit a trainer who has unfortunately since contracted Lou Gehrig’s Disease with bringing him back around. One session with her and I could mount him, walk safely around the ring, and trot lightly again, after a year of his violently dumping every human being as soon as their foot hit the stirrup.)
It’s taken longer for me to heal, though, both mentally and physically. I slowly put on weight after that injury, bringing myself up to a slim 120 pounds, which still seemed ‘fat’ to me; then after I quit riding altogether, I put on about 5 pounds a year until now I weigh about 145 and am a solid pants size 8-10. I still eat all organic, I don’t touch refined sugars, I’m mostly vegan, I’m not a big drinker or a smoker, but I just don’t starve myself or exercise excessively. (The overexercising literally ruined my body to it, so I only do my own horse’s stall, water buckets, feed, etc. these days, and I can’t do pilates or most involved yoga poses because I relapse into body anxiety.)
For a time, I hated myself even though I’m still healthy, possibly technically healthier than I had been, and I’m sure most people in the riding world would and do think I’m fat, tubby, out of shape, causing my horse much pain, whatever.
But personally, I’ve come to terms with myself and feel fine. Yes. I don’t look ‘really bad’, but I have a round tummy between my hipbones and thicker thighs. However, when I got on my horse last week for the first real time in about a year, he loved to actually feel my weight in the saddle. I think it makes my aids clearer. He has a soft mouth, so to compensate, I’d never really ridden him with hands, but when I was thinner I couldn’t ride him off my seat because I think he literally could not feel what I wanted him to do. This time, when I actually weighted my body into the saddle and gave him a command, he began to go on the bit easily and swung his back freely, using his back and extending his motion. He felt exactly like riding one of my friend’s fancy Warmbloods, even though (as I’ve often been reminded) he’s “just” an unraced TB.
I don’t expect it to be like that every time I get on, as we all have our on days and our off days, but I went from feeling like I was happy staying on the ground, never needed or wanted to ride again, to wanting to be in the saddle every day. Not for any fitness regimen — just because we were both having so much fun!
Other than two chiropractic visits and the extra weight gain, I was doing nothing differently than I had been before. I still have a high standard for my riding position, and this horse needs me to ask him correctly or he won’t understand and won’t do what I think I’m asking. So maybe part of it is that the chiro realigned my atlas, correcting a lump I’d always had at the back of my neck, but I definitely feel that most of it is that I’m actually comfortable (mentally and physically — do you know what torture it is to sit in a saddle when you can feel every inch of it against your unpadded muscle? the buckles from my irons actually left bruises on my inner thighs when I was at my thinnest).
I really think gaining weight gave me a more secure seat, better balance, more security, and thus more confidence — all of which translates into a better ride for me and thus a more confident, easier, more correct, happier, and generally better ride from my horse. Which, of course, makes it all the better for me too!
So this was long, and it will make a lot of people mad at “the fattie fat advocate” or whatever — but thanks for reading it and letting me write it. I’ve never discussed it as in-depth before. I genuinely think the obsession with thinness (sometimes called “fitness”, although the two are not synonymous) in America, especially in equestrian sports, can destroy young women’s lives. And it’s not talked about, or when it is it’s assumed to be a mental disease, confined to women who are either vain or just plain troubled otherwise. Because what’s wrong with being “healthy”, right?!
The poster who lost 16 pounds in 4 weeks actually scared me. The fact that people congratulated me was even scarier. Those are giant red flags to anyone who’s ever been where I was, and yes, people congratulated ME too. They said they “envied” me, and praised me, when I was literally starving myself to death. I guess I didn’t look it, but still. That’s sick, and people should be ashamed of that a lot more than they seem to be ashamed of looking my size 10 hips in riding breeches.
“The fact that people congratulated me was even scarier” = The fact that people congratulated HER
I’m not saying that commenter is an anorexic. But losing 16 pounds in 4 weeks is NOT HEALTHY. Hating yourself is not healthy. Disordered eating is a sign of eroded self-confidence and/or self-hatred. And eating such that you DO lose 16 pounds in 4 weeks IS disordered eating (unless she was just pounding half a case of Bud, downing a liter of soda, pouring pounds of pure sugar down her own throat, and/or gobbling a stick of pure butter every day and cut that out, which I highly doubt is the case).
Avoiding fast food and refined food is healthier for a person, yes. Avoiding excessive soda and alcohol is a positive choice. Exercise is good for you. Common sense. But those things alone don’t necessarily always translate to thinness. And dieting, though it’s considered healthy, can make a person very unhealthy.
There’s healthy and there’s thin. Some thin people are healthy, but many thin people are not healthy. Some healthy people are trim, but many healthy people are not thin. That’s basically it.