Clinicians Losing Their Cool!
Feb 12 2011
This is going to be an interesting one. It isn’t a blatant temper tantrum. It’s the sort of riding that I see a lot, with a lot of trainers – aka “trainers I would never let get on any horse of mine.” I’m curious to see what the reaction is here on this blog. For background, this is a two and a half year old gelding that the trainer, Amanda Self, knew had been under saddle for only about thirty days.
My opinion here is that this is the kind of stuff that totally ruins horses. This took place at a clinic and I’m going to make the argument that there’s a REASON so much abuse takes place at these clinics: Folks, the clinician is on STAGE. The LAST thing they are going to want to do is let the tiger NOT jump through the hoop. Everyone is watching! Even if, at home, they would have taken things more slowly and used better judgment, in public, they feel like they need to show their magikal skillz and get the job done. After all, their income is dependent upon it. So they get up there and, by damn, that horse is going to get bridled (remember the latest Parelli train wreck) or in this case it’s gonna god-damn-spin-left-if-it’s-the-last-thing-Amanda-ever-does. I just think that, ultimately, horse training doesn’t work in a presentation setting for this reason.
Any of us who have ever trained a horse knows that you can’t predict 100% what they will do, and when you are hopping on horses you know nothing about, that is particularly true. Who among us wants to be under the pressure of “looking cool” while getting on a green, unknown horse? I certainly do not. I don’t think I’d lose it like this chick did but I’d most certainly feel pressured and frustrated. You have not only the pressure that you often have of the client, who may be clueless about the time it takes to train a horse properly, but now you have the pressure of a bunch of other people watching. I’m not excusing it, but it’s more understandable when the clinician snaps and starts losing their cool. It’s basic psychology.
The client/owner who DOES care about their horse and IS upset about this is under great pressure too – not to cause a scene, not to “ruin” the clinic. They may be mocked if they say anything and reminded that they are there at the clinic because they aren’t the expert/failed in some way/are having problems with the horse. As the person who shot the video wrote – and I think she was spot on – “I talked to someone today who went threw [sic] the same experience about 15yrs ago at a clinic, and she knew exactly how it felt, we TRUST them, and, when we enter one of those clinics we are all very vunerable “we know nothing”, “we cant do anything right”, and we are there to learn? they are superior to us, and when they tell you to do something you try it ..right?”
There is just no way in Hell this is good for horses. I think clinics are fine for experienced horses and riders, and as in the case of the Jeff Cook clinic I watched last week, can be extremely valuable. But green horses and an audience are a bad combination. Do you tihnk that’s true or do you think this woman’s just an asshat, and that most clinicians would exercise better judgment and be able to make that separation I explained where you might FEEL frustration and pressure, but not react to it? I know there are the rare individuals who can totally put themselves
Now for some happy news – Miracle is doing well! Check out the latest update.
For the Paint lovers, check out Lobo at Shiloh Horse Rescue. How cute is he? He was rescued by Shiloh, recently gelded, and now is on track to a successful future. Shiloh is near Las Vegas, Nevada.
144 comments to “Clinicians Losing Their Cool!”
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Stupid bitches who claim to be trainers are the bain of the horse industry, well one of them anyway. IMHO, a 2-1/2 year old should be in the pasture finishing growing. If ridden at all, is NOT READY TO SPIN AMANDA…It’s clear to me and the horse that the horse is NOT understanding what the hell she wants, her cues are inconsistent, she’s all on his mouth, and after 30 days he should be wtc in a straight line, that’s all I want at that point. Who is this, lets stop her. I couldn’t even watch the second clip, poor boy. I would like to kick and spin that bitch.
Not a blatant temper tantrum? If that isn’t one, I’d hate to see her have one. That poor animal, you can clearly hear each violent stab of the huge spur into that horse. And when the spur gets knocked out of place from hitting him so hard she stops to make sure its in place so she can continue the abuse.
I’m not even clear what she is trying to do. Get the colt to move off the spur? He has no idea. Ever heard of groundwork?
She is kicking him, cranking on his mouth, whipping him. Ugggg….trainer? What a joke. If that was my colt I would pull her off and beat the shit out of her, right in front of her audience.
Well, in comparison to some things I’ve seen…that’s all I meant.
Yeah, I know what you mean, there is always a worse tantrum. Looks like she attended the Cleve Wells school of horsemanship.
Yeah. I mean, I see this shit in the warm-up pen at shows ALL the time. ALL the damn time.
I mean, you know, compared to whacking them with 2 x 4′s like Shane Dowdy, I guess this doesn’t have the power to shock me in comparison.
I didn’t get to see the videos since they have been removed. Perhaps she was able to see the grains of truth in what you wrote Cathy.
I would like to reply to the assertion that green horses at clinics is a bad combo. I believe that depends on the clinic and the clinician. We have attended a few clinics given by a gentleman named Jeff Griffith at our “local” equine school. He has provided both colt starting and horsemanship clinics. I have been impressed with him each time. First, he doesn’t let the person move the horse to the next step until the horse and rider are ready. So if this means you work on flexing at the walk for 2 of the 4 days, then you do. He also brings “hands” to provide you with assistance and help answer questions. I have never seen him lose his temper – even when at the first clinic we attended, the horse my daughter was working with (a barely handled 3 yr old) threw a tantrum about moving her hind feet. When, instead of moving away she would bolt backwards (reverse was her avoidance behavior) he patiently and quietly brought her back forward and asked again. 30 minutes later she was moving fine, never once being yanked, smacked or yelled at. At the end of this lesson, even though there was an afternoon left he told my daughter to really rub her down, and put her up, “let her soak” that was enough for her that day. It was a break through for this horse…and she was a star the rest of the clinic. Each clinic we have attended, Jeff has changed some of his teaching because he has learned something new, and he continues to learn and perfect what he does. I would recommend his clinic for any age horse.
There are good clinicians out there, it’s a shame that clinicians like this put such a black eye on the industry.
Hell, I see it in the ring. . . frequently, they win too.
I can’t say that I’d beat the shit out of the trainer (I’d want to do it), but I would have “made a scene” and immediately, pulled my horse out of there! (Of course, any 2 1/2 year old of mine would NOT be out for training… it would be in the pasture, growing for at least, another 6 months.)
Geez… I’ve never trained a horse myself, but I always thought it’s better to take things slow, i.e. get one or two sideways steps here and tell the horse it’s a good boy? As opposed to cranking on its mouth and jabbing spurs in its side and smacking it with the reins until it spins around just to try and get away from pain?
I feel extremely sorry for the horse. I hope the poor thing didn’t have to deal with that for long, and got a trainer that actually knew what he/she was doing and was aware that things take time and patience.
Wow. The way she was raking her spur down the side of that horse, that did it for me.
If that was my horse, I would have sat there in utter shock for the first bit, but I’m pretty sure after she started raking the spur down her side the second time I would have jumped up and said something. I’m like that though. NObody hurts my horse. I understand horses need discipline, and my husband actually thinks I’m too “strict” with my horse (he’s always pushing the envelope that horse)… but I don’t abuse my horse.
I get that the “cowboys” do, or did, things this way, and much worse… but I firmly believe that 99% of the horses out there can be trained in a much gentler fashion.
SOD what the cowboys do…wrong is wrong, like the horse trippers- they say that is their “culture” and their right.
We have the same trouble with gypsies.
Sod the lot of them, I say, right is right and what is going on in that video is just plain WRONG>
Hey, careful, there. cheriecalgary wrote “cowboys,” in quotation marks, presumably because she knows that only wanna-be cowboys who are actually just horse abusers use nasty “training techniques.” I think REAL cowboys respect their horses and try to do right by them. It’s not fair to judge an entire group because of the actions of a few. Hell, it’s a good thing most people don’t judge whole groups of people for the actions for a few sods; what would the horse world at large think of Rollkür loving dressage queens? Or tacks-in-splint boots and nosebands hunter jumpers? I’m sure there are pretty abusive Gypsies in the country you come from, but I’m pretty sure there are some very kind, soft, talented horse trainers who come from that particular community, as well, just like there are good and bad in every country, every community, every sport, every discipline…
So judge the bad behaviour, I’m absolutely with you on that, but be careful how you identify the guilty parties.
Thanks for that. There are bad trainers in every discipline.The type of saddle doesn’t create ability or knowledge.
Yeah, I did write cowboys in quotes because I was using the term derogatorily. It’s a 50/50 thing with me. I believe there are lots of cowboys (category 1) out there who know that proper starting and training of a horse means the horse will be sound longer and a better partner. But I also think there are lots of cowboys out there (category 2) who think a horse is something that needs to be “broken” literally and figuratively, and they treat them like a disposable “tool” to get the job done (although I’ll give these guys this; their horses are at least fit and fed).
The second category of cowboys would consider us all (the readership here is mainly female) a bunch of whiny emotional idiots for treating our horses as well as we do and for caring about abuse, neglect and slaughter. The first category of cowboys probably would too regarding the slaughter issue; but they care about abuse and neglect.
When I said “cowboys” in quotes, I really did mean the idiots in the second category. Hopefully they’re fewer and farther between than the first category.
I’d like to think that at the point where she is driving the horse in the ribs so hard that her spur is falling OFF, I would tell her to kindly remove her ASS from my horse’s back. But, would I really? I’m glad you pose questions like this to get us all to think about stuff like this BEFORE it happens.
I could not even watch the complete video! This rider is abusing that horse and if I had been at that clinic I would have had to do something. I had the “pressure†conversation with the gentleman, heavy on the gentle!. Who I get to help me with my horses. We talked about how you have to leave your ego at the gate because if you really are there to pick up clients, the people who understand your methods will never hire you if they see that type of behaviour. The people who are looking for someone who puts the horse first will recognize that the horse is not a machine and needs the extra time and respect you for giving it to them. Wow I am enraged to see this treatment of a horse.
This woman needs to get off the horse and get her own ass smacked with the reins. If you watch the first video, you will see that the horse is trying to move around to the left and she is a) holding him back so he can`t get the `forward`that he needs to be able to cross over, b) blocking the shoulder from being able to move and c) putting on a show to make herself look like a fabulous trainer on a `bad`horsey. There is nothing wrong with this horse`s effort. He actually takes a couple of good steps, and at this point she should have stopped him, patted him, let him rest, and then walked forward to try again……but nooooooo, she had to make a big deal and ìnsist`that he complete a 360 turn which is NOT how you train a horse to turn around…..especially a young horse. This f*cktard has efectively taken away this horses `try`and now he will need to be re-trained on the fact that doing a turn-around is not a big scary deal. Good job, little Ms. Clinician…..Oh and I really like the way that you only stop him to re-adjust your spurs……Classy……
I didn’t think she was adjusting the spurs as much as probably picking chunks of horse out of the rowels. She is an absolute ZERO! Poor horse.
This is a TRAINER? Not in my book! Stabbing a confused horse repeatedly with spurs, heavy hands on the reins not allowing the horse to move forward – that’s not training. That’s adding more confusion. The horse has no idea of what to do. Amazing he didn’t just blow up! This person needs to TAKE some lessons – not give them!
Ok, so don’t get me wrong, I get that everybody has bad days, and I get that people sometimes loose their patience. Even the best of us have at some point. But really? This is rediculous. I’ve trained a few horses from first ride to leg yeilds, turn on forehand and turn on haunches, and NEVER did I need a spur, never did I need to pony kick more then once to get my point across, and never did I need to grab at the horses face as he bolted across the arena to get the fuck a way from me. I don’t care if you are on stage, I don’t care if you are preforming. I trained at a fairgrounds with bitchy 4h moms and kids telling my clients that I didn’t know what I was doing and couldn’t ride because the horses weren’t half dead and peanut pushing with their noses practically on the ground. Oh, and I didn’t see-saw their faces off. I’ve trained under pressure, and I’ve never reacted anything close to that. I would tell her to get the fuck off my horse and then I’d ask for a refund.
IF this were a horse that is old enough to be taught this type of stuff (and this one is not) – Besides her cruelty and temper, this clinician lacks a very basic understanding of how to teach the horse to do what you want. When he gives a hint of the right thing, stop and praise him (like lavish petting on the neck, not just “good boy” in your voice that means nothing to him). Then ask again, praise, repeat. This little fellow did what she wanted for several steps, and instead of a reward, she continued to give him the same cue. Of course he stopped! He thought “this must not be what she’s asking for.” She was teaching him NOT to do what he was offering.
Before letting anyone on my horse (no matter how big a name they may have), I watch them school other horses. This person would never, ever, ever be allowed on my horse in the first place. If I somehow got fooled into letting her on, I’d get her off as soon as she started this cr@p. I wouldn’t care if she and the entire audience thought I was a bleeding-heart idiot.
As usual a lot of the so called clinicians have no credentials. If people would research where, how and with whom they studied there would be less of this type of abuse. I don’t care if that horse was 8 years old with a bad attitude, she just made it dangerous for the owner. You are so right about these idiot wantabes.
Training must be done systematic with the horses trust and understanding.
Again if people were to research and observe there would be a lot less of this!
I’m fairly certain this chick wins a lot…but I know that’s not what you mean by credentials.
I’d rather see someone with zero credentials but a good understanding of horse psychology and enough patience to do the right thing for the horse get on my horse and teach her nothing, than let an idiot with an arm’s length of credentials get on my horse and teach her that even if she tries, if she doesn’t get it right, she’s going to be severely punished. But of course best case scenario is to find someone, credentials or not, who is going to help my horse discover some new thing she can do, or a better way to do something she already knows.
I didn’t get to watch the videos as they have been removed, but from what I gather from the other comments, this lady was pretty brutal with this horse, and it does bring up the question of how the owner should/could react, with the pressure on them to let the clinician show them what they paid to learn. I’d like to think I’d have the courage to say STOP, walk my horse around on a loose rein to leave on a calm (if not very happy) note, and then take her home. But I imagine that must be very difficult to do. I did (politely, at least at first) refuse certain “suggestions” in one barn for “training techniques” with my mare, and that did not earn me any points with the instructors there. And even that was not always easy to do, because after all, they are the “professionnals” who are supposed to have the answers.
Well, at least he knows how to worry and panic now. Those are two skills no baby should be without.
Haven’t we seen this asshat before?
Nope, I believe this is Amanda’s first appearance on the blog. There is an endless supply of these people.
Well in defense of Amanda I HAVE taken one of her clinics and LOVED it. I am a dressage rider (breed and ride warmbloods) and had just got a 3yr old APHA that was green. It was my first foray into the reining/western world and I couldn’t have been more pleased. Amanda was quick to praise the basic training we had done and worked at our level. Even though my mare did not have any clue to spin if we even got a stride or two I was told to stop her and praised her lavishly. She did not get on any of the horses at the clinic that I saw (it was a 3 day clinic) but there was a very positive feel to it and my mare was completely relaxed and and we learned a lot. Anyways, just wanted to share my experience from someone that has taken a clinic of hers.
Glad you did. I always like hearing from people who have personal experience.
And I still want to talk about what I said…is the clinic situation with green horses just too much pressure and that is why it goes wrong so often?
Most of the time, yup, too much pressure, not on the horse, but on the person. I hate to say this because it’s never been a particularly popular opinion, but people are really insecure and when you put them on stage, they screw up because they have a dream of what is supposed to happen and when it doesn’t, they don’t look for alternate explinations or take little bits. I know one international event who has given up on clinics and most lessons specifically because the owners have such irrational expectations of what is going to happen in a clinic or a lesson with a big name. Suddenly my horse will be 4* ready right?
See, that’s my thinking. I think being on stage and being expected to get results is a lot of pressure. You could argue that this is true of all showing, but not to the same degree. People watching clinics expect to see magic, and see it now.
Stacy Westphal’s horse ignored her at least once during the clinic of hers I watched, and she admitted that’s exactly what had happened and explained it and moved on. Made me think even more highly of her, and I had a high opinion to begin with.
I think this is a people problem, not just a clinic problem. There is no magic to training a horse, and if you take your horse to a clinic hoping for a quick fix to all but the most basic of issues, you set yourself, your horse and the clinician, up for failure. If you have a problem horse, you may make improvements in 30 minutes, but you probably will not fix the problem. Training is based on building blocks, little bits at a time, and it takes time. If Amanda was trying to teach this horse to spin, a more appropriate approach would have been to ask for one step in the right direction, then several other planned sessions. Later. To expect a young horse (or any horse) to understand and execute a spin (or any other manuever) in one session just screams inexperience and a lack of understanding of the training and learning process.
I find it interesting to watch trainers and clinicians. But I do so with armed with knowledge and my own training style. If they have nothing to offer that I think I can use, I walk away. Any clinician who uses gimicks or terms like “always” or “never” rarely has anything I need.
Yup …. another asshat of the week award. Two actually. I am really going to hope that the owner finally grew some and told this twit to get off her horse. Why perpetuate the myth of these so called trainers. I’d rather be the talk of the county. Believe me I’ve done it. Told an Cdn Olymplic rider to get off my horse in the middle of a clinic years ago. Loved the man. Think he is brilliant. A true hero. Not even close to right for my horse at that time. You could hear the silence in the arena for 5 minutes. The one reason I still respect this guy is that he cam up to me later and apologized.
What did I take away from the experience. (1) Do’t be afraid to speak up. (2) Before turning my horse over to a trainer, specially if I wasn’t on site for training sessions, coordinate times for the first 3-4 sessions to make sure that they are a fit both in temperment (horse and trainer) and that there is a clear understanding that results goined with short cuts are NOT what I’m looking for. I hate getting on horses who know all the “tricks” and none of the skills.
Ignore the spelling above please …. that will teach me to type without my glasses on.
This makes me SOOOO thankful for my trainer. My mare was a 7 yeard old with a shitty attitude when she went to my trainer, and I saw a few rides that made me squirm, but my mare was truly being a shit (trying to buck trainer off, rearing, trying to bite) and even wqhen my mare was oviously RANK my trainer wasn’t even half as aggressive as this. My squirming at a few deserved come-to-Jesus meetings I attribute to me never actually seeing horse training in action… BUT… this also raises a good point, if you are new to horses who are you supposed to trust? That’s a hard call for a newbie to make too.
Thankfully I put my trust in the right person. I had first used a NH lady who was okay but I couldn’t afford her consistently, then I had one lesson with the big name paint trainer (for our area) and she told me to beat the shit out of my horse, work the shit out of her, tie her up for an hopur and do it again to cure her sourness…. that was our first and last lesson with that lady. I’ve been with my trainer for over a year now, and even though I’m still a nervous novice, we BEAT the big name trainer in opur walk-jog western pleasure class last year, my trainer didn’t tell me she was riding until the class was over. XD
Long story short, my trainer has turned my sour little mare into a mare who will always try. The biggest acheivement so far is that this mare, who would buck me off when I tried to canter, or rear, or bite… etc… I can now lope her one-handed on a loose rein!!! My trainer has taken it slow with us, the mare was green and naughty and I was green and scared…. we are training WP and showing in the little local show, but still in a snaffle, trainer says the mare is ready to move up but I am not because my hands aren’t quiet enough yet, and she refuses to put my mare in a shank bit if there is even a chance of me overreacting and snatching the face. She is drilling me on equitation, and even though it’s taking a LOOOONG time, I am so happy we are doing it right! I know If I learn to ride better, the mare will react better!
Oh, and BTW, we are working on pivots… mare pivots and sidepasses beautifully for trainer with only one hand on the rein, but my cues need refinement. So, if I ask for a side-step to start a pivot and the mare walks forward, instead of whaling on her, my trainer says “Stop and regroup. Where was your keg? See, that was a forward cue.” No yelling, no whipping, just stop, relax, try again. Because if the horse does something wrong, it’s likely the riders fault.
Did I mention how much I love and feel lucky I have my trainer? Sorry for gushing on and on….
“. . .BUT. . .this also raises a good point, if you are new to horses, who are you supposed to trust?” You hit the nail on the head with this comment!
A few months after getting my mare (before I found FHOTD or read How to Think Like A Horse by Cherry Hill) I was riding with some other people when the riders in front began cantering their horses. My mare dumped me and took off for home. When I got back to the barn (thanks to the neighbor who saw my horse gallop past with no rider and came to pick me up in his gator) the “trainer”/farrier had my mare in the round pen working her into a sweat and smacking her with the ends of the reins and kicking her (no spurs) and I let it happen. I will never, never, never forgive myself for not stopping it and I am ashamed to admit approving of it at the time. Now I know my young mare thought that because the other horses were running that a predator was chasing them and she didn’t want to get eaten!
Best point of view on horses is that they are perpetual toddlers and will test you and try to get away with things even though you didn’t allow it yesterday so you need boatloads of patience and firm but fair discipline.
I don’t know the first thing about training a grown horse, or a two and a half year old. However, I can tell the difference between training and being cruel,, or when someone is using cruel training methods. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to tell someone to get off my horse if they were doing something I wasn’t comfortable with, and if they didn’t, I would have no problems yanking them off my horse.
I bought a two year old Hackney pony at an auction one night, she was the size of a foal, they had a two hundred pound man riding her in the ring,, when the auctioneer pointed at me and said “Sold”, I promptly stood up and yelled for the man to “Get the F*ck off my horse”. That pony now lives with a vet and is having a wonderful life.
LOVE that you stood up in the auction and yelled that!!! Good for you!
Ha.
A few months back I was working on canter leg yields on a horse and I forgot to flex the rein against the direction of movement. So, instead of a canter leg yield…I got a perfect flying change. From a horse that doesn’t have his changes quite yet.
One of these kinds of trainers would have whaled on the poor thing for not doing the right exercise. Not me…I was like ‘Dang, not what I wanted, but it was good’…so he got plenty of praise. And my trainer falling down laughing at the pair of us
.
Just wanted to say congrats on beating the big name trainer! I just loooove stories like this!
This makes me sick. She really needs to take a look at the videos and see what she is doing wrong. Maybe in the heat of the moment she doesn’t see what she is doing but isn’t that what videos are for? That poor horse had no idea what she wanted with all the miscues. Poor baby was trying so hard to do what she wanted. There is no reason for the spurs and slapping with the reins. My best friend had a show barn with reining horses and I got to see first hand the proper way to way to teach a young horse to spin. This is NOT the way you do it. I can guarantee if I saw her do that to MY horse I would have went out there and spurred and slapped HER! I’m not a trainer but I know you don’t treat a horse this way, especially a green horse. It will take this poor horse a long time to get over his fear of spinning now. What a stupid bitch.
I was recently at a saddle fitting seminar where there was first some lectures on saddle fit and then three demo fittings. what happened was that of the 20 saddles the lector had with her none fitted any of the demo horses. all the horses had problems with saddles slipping forward and all the saddles she had were supposed to be designed to prevent that specific problem, but it just didn’t work out that day. these things happen and I actually admired the lector for being able to shrug it off and not try to push a fitting that wasn’t going to happen.
I’ve also had some experience with asking for help from someone you thought would know better and then being faced with a situation where you realize you don’t want their advice after all. this can be very awkward even if it’s not at a clinic and in front of everybody.
wow – at 2 and a half…my horse would be out playing like the BABY he/she is for starters (I know – I’m into warmbloods, but breed shouldn’t matter)
If he’s only been under saddle for 30 days, why are they worrying about spins? I would be more worried about rhythm, transitions ect. Am I missing something here? I would have hauled her off in the middle of it and wailed on her with the reins for a few minutes for good measure. I’m a big believer in “the only 2 attitudes that belong in the saddle are patience and a sense of humour” – if you don’t have both, stick to riding the carousel
I had a similar experience a few times that were perfect examples of why “babies” stay home from clinics (unless you’re 10000% sure the clinician is okay with green horses!) – lesson on my schoolmaster was awesome. Then out I came a few hours later with my green-bean-with-attitude mare. Massive disaster. The next time, clinician volunteered to ride the mare for me (to “prove it was me not the horse/situation)….lets just say there was one embarrassed pro rider by the end of it and a lot of respect thrown my way
There is an exceptionally good reason why that horse is being taught to spin at the tender age of 2 1/2. Because they have high $$$$ reining futurity classes for 3 year olds, don’t they? You can’t go in a 3 yo reining class unless you’ve been under some pretty hard training for quite a while. You could compare this to racing a 3 yo in the Kentucky Derby… but I wonder if the complicated moves required in a reining class would be harder on young bones and tendons then simply galloping around a track.
Hmmm….funny, the videos have already been removed by the user. At least I won’t go and personally yell at that “trainer.” I can only imagine what went on based on the comments.
You couldn’t have anyway, from the get-go comments were disabled. I was tempted to say something on one of the uploaders other videos… but I couldn’t remember if it was the owner or trainer that posted it. I had thought it was the owner…
Well as much as I love the sport of reining I think the sport itself has too much pressure (like horse racing). Most of these horses are started as long yearlings/barely 2yr olds and expected to futurity and compete under intense pressure as 2yr old with flying changes/spins/rollbacks etc on bodies not yet fully mature. Their careers are pretty well done by 5yrs old for any of the big money classes so I do think it causes many trainers to get results quickly as there is such limited time.
I enjoy the sport but still do not agree with starting horses before 3yrs of age so I will enjoy it in a relaxed non-competitive atmosphere. I look at it as it is just nice to have a well trained horse for the next 30yrs.
Fawn, the reining futurities are for 3 year olds, not 2 year olds. By definition, if you show them before their three year old year, they are not eligible to compete in any aged event competition for reining horses. The only 2 year old futurities in western riding are for western pleasure. For cutters, it is 3 year olds only and barrel racers are 4 year olds, with some 5 year old futurities. None of the reiners I have worked for or known shows their horses before Jan 1 of their three year old year.
Sorry, I can’t let this pass. If you show your too young colts at any SANCTIONED organization show, you will lose eligibility to show the horse. Open shows are off the radar and allowed, or at least ‘overlooked’. Don’t play the political game of trying to claim that these three year olds walk out of the pasture and start magically spinning and giving sliding stops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K09vrdzXec First response on Google to “2 yr old reining futurity”
http://www.stoneys.org/salehorses/2yrolds.htm second option on the above search. They are ‘ready to ride’.
http://www.reinersworld.com/forsale/twoYOfuturitystallions.html Fourth hit (the third was for a photographer). All colts are expected to be already broke and ready for reining, or at least started.
Note: A horse that is ‘two’ right now is actually probably a yearling, unless the mare delivered a January baby. So please don’t play the ‘they can’t show until they are three’ card. A baby who enters a show ring at 3 was started at LEAST as a two year old, and has at least six months of hard training/riding before it goes to a futurity. It also has open show experience, because no trainer is going to show a colt who has never been to a show in a big money futurity.
I have to agree with Fawn. In order to ride a 3 year old in a reining futurity class you have to start training and riding them at 2. Oui? At 2 years old they are way too young physically and they are mentally immature. I think at 2 you should just put a lot of ground training on them. I bought a 2YO coming on 3YO mare from a local barrel racing facility that have shows every weekend. These people have money. She had been sent off to a trainer. They were selling her cause well cuz she was just not fast enough. I test rode her there many times and even though she jigged I liked her. They said she had reining and barrel racing training but I didn’t care I just wanted a trail horse. Wow I bought myself a headcase. This was the routine when I wanted to ride. It would take me a half an hour to catch her. I found out the hard way she was terrified to be tied. I would tack her up in her stall but she would walk in circles the whole time. When you mounted her she would swish her tail and turn and try to kick you. She also just hated to be ridden. She would get so worked up but she remembered her “training” cause her refusals to go foward consisted of rollbacks, spins and sidepasses that I did not ask for. Her whole body would just buzz. She was dangerous. I later found out that the real reason they sold her was because even though they sent her to THREE different trainers they couldn’t do a thing with her. I wonder why. I mean she was even SACKED out by the trainers. So she should be bombproof right? The point is she was too young to be trained this hard totally mentally wrecked. Did I sell her….no way. I just took my time with her and helped her work though her fears and I learned a lot. She’s still hot under the saddle but we trust each other. Me and hubby are gonna ride the horses today yay!!!!!
If a horse is going to a futurity at 3 years of age, it will be working hard in training by at LEAST 2 1/2 or younger. I think that was the point.
I worked as an assistant breeding manager on a large, very famous reining horse farm a few years ago. All of their “2″ year olds were started under saddle in January of their 2 year old year no matter if they were truley 2 years old or not. Some of them are started as young as 18 months old. I remember one 2 year old filly in particular that already had splints on both front legs and she was just barely a 2 year old. Most of the reining horses are lame by the time they’re 5 years old, if not earlier.
The videos have been taken down. Guess the videographer got spooked?
Video was removed already. Had a friend with a very green, young horse in a state horse fair clinic. Horse bucked off clinician. He didn’t get mad or anything. He worked to understand why the horse did it. Was super calm with the gelding.
The video’s gone. Anyone have a description?
Trying to get the horse to spin – lots of spurring, yanking, and hitting with the ends of the reins. She got pretty harsh.
The videos are already removed, although, I have seen enough of that crap from “clinicians” to need to watch these. It would just piss me off I am sure… I think there is something wrong with a horse trainer who trys to hawk their wares like they are selling something for “as seen on TV”. But wait, I guess they are…
When I was in high school I volunteered as Jr. Counselor at a horse camp. During our training week at the beginning of the summer the director did a couple hour long horse training demonstrations. On the first day he was working with a horse who had been doing very well. But on that day, everything the horse had learned went right out the window. In the middle he acknowledged that they would probably not get as far as he had planned.
At the end he stood in the middle of the ring with the horse and stroked its neck. He talked about how things don’t always go as planned with horses. Then he talked about the next step that they didn’t get to and how to go about and accomplish that. During the entire time he praised the horse often, he talked about why not to rush or force a horse, and that you should never punish a horse when they are still learning. Instead slow down the pace and praise them at everything they do right.
I didn’t get to see the video, but I can vividly imagine what it was like, because like Cathy says, this shit happens all too often, right out in the open, in clinics and warm-up rings everywhere.
No one should ever feel like they don’t have the right to STOP the trainer and pull out of the clinic if their horse is being mistreated. I totally get the pressure to “go along with it” but if no one does anything, and just allows it to continue, then other people assume that the situation is OK or “normal” for training. It’s like an emperor with no clothes situation.
If it were my horse, I can’t say I would make a scene, but I wouldn’t let it continue, either. I would just tell the person to get off and if anyone asks any questions I would just politely say that I don’t agree with harsh methods of training and get the hell out of there.
I had the rare privilege of watching John Lyons break his collarbone at a clinic about 6 years ago. It was at a Horse Expo in Albany Oregon. He was working with a young horse, which he tried to push to far, too fast. To his credit, he didn’t come unhinged or do anything awful to the horse. The horse reared up and rolled over on him, breaking his collarbone. He got back up on the horse, and finished the second HOUR of the clinic. He very specifically pointed out that, what he SHOULD have done, was spend more time working on the previous step before he tried to advance. He admitted that he was going too fast to try to show the whole process. He also admitted that the whole thing was his faultl, not the horse’s. The next day, as he was working with a sling on his arm, he explained to the audience why he was wearing the sling and how pushing a horse too much can end badly – like with a broken collarbone.
So, in this case, I would say you kinda have to give John props. Yeah, he pushed the horse too fast, but he didn’t blow up or blame the horse. He admitted his mistake and turned it into a learning experience for the audience. Honestly, it was kind of refreshing to see a high-dollar clinician be honest and reasonable.
Absolutely. I give him huge credit for admitting the wreck was his fault.
And look, he still has a career. Maybe that should be a lesson to others.
No kidding. I gained a whole bunch of respect for John when I saw that. I’ve seen a fair number of big clinicians and I kinda tend to toss them all into the same basket: “Motivational speakers for the equine challenged.” They all have stuff to offer, and there’s always a tool or two that they use that might be good for my training “toolbox”, but I try never to get totally sucked into any one way of doing things. But seeing John go through that whole process kinda set him above the others for me. I’ll never be a groupie, but the guy has my respect. And, if money were no option, I might actually send a horse to him for training.
Hey Amanda-what’s the problem?? You don’t want industry professionals to see you train/demo? I challenge you to put the videos back up-and to listen to criticism.
She didn’t have them up, it was someone else who was present and taping. I am guessing they got scared of legal threats. Too bad. I’m happy to put them back up on my own youtube account if they somehow find their way to my in box. I am not afraid in the least!
Hey Cathy, not sure if you knew this, but you can actually download videos from places like YouTube… maybe next time save it on your hard drive first, then post.
http://keepvid.com/
I know, I need to start doing that. Sorry, I’m on vacation this weekend and was rushing and trying not to be poor company and blog all day, LOL!
It’s probably a good thing I couldn’t see the video. I would have been really angry, and I don’t need that today!
I am NOT a trainer, I have NEVER competed in a horse show and I DON’T give riding lessons. I facilitate the joining of kids and horses – and the kiddos ride for free. HOWEVER, we have taken a horse with little or not handling, or just plain abusive handling and have turned them into a horse that is quiet and sane – and rideable. The key for us is that we make it fun. The horses have a good time, the kids have a good time and there is little or no pressure to have the horse ready at a certain date. One thing I have learned is that all horses have different learning schedules imbedded in their own psyche, and if you work with their strengths instead of punishing their weaknesses, you get along a lot better. The bonus is that, given time and patience, they become stronger in their weak areas as well. Most horses, even those who have been abused, have a desire to comply with your requests.
Another thing……we hardly EVER use spurs. It’s just too easy for a human to lose their temper and spur a little too hard. Only experienced riders who are at least 15 are allowed to use spurs on my place. Myself? Never. I’ve never needed them, and since I don’t do performance work, I don’t know that I ever will. Several of the horses on our place have been spur abused in the past. The jingle/jangle of a spur on the back of a boot will send them into PTSD moments. That never has a good outcome.
As an aside, I think I have decided to compete this year – for the first time ever. The American Competitive Trail Riding Association looks like a heck of a lot of fun! Totally up my alley.
Thanks fugly for keeping us up-to-date on this kind of thing. We all need to be aware so we can advocate for our horses. They do need a voice.
Question from a fairly new rider: I have never used Western spurs, but what about the little “knobby” Prince of Wales blunt end English spurs? I ride Western in an Aussie saddle, but I wear an English spur just to give a little nudge to my boy once is awhile when he is resisting going foward. I have never crammed them into his sides or dug in and kept them in place. I don’t feel like I am abusing/hurting him if I just give him a quick poke to remind him I am calling the shots and he needs to move. Am I wrong?
Used properly a whip or spur is an aid for communication between rider and horse. A tap of the whip can cue a circus horse to stretch out and bow — a touch of the whip can tell a horse it’s time to move out. I’ve never had a problem with judicious, effective use of such aids.
A tap with the whip or a nudge with a spur has more effect and causes less pain than driving your heels into the horse’s ribs. I am more likely to snap a whip on my boot for noise, than my horse — and it works a treat for an old cranky horse trying to pull something. My old riding teacher had a horse who wouldn’t move unless his rider had spurs (English/training spurs). Never had to use them, just have them on.
I have a trainer who rides in what I consider a severe bit (he thinks snaffles are worse — we agree to disagree). However — his hands are still and light, and the horses are happy. He does not hurt them with a bit — ever. In his hands, the bit he uses is not severe or excessive. In less skilled hands, I’ve seen a simple snaffle used to inflict agony (yank YANK yank). It’s not the equipment you have — it’s how you use it. Anything can be an instrument of torture — some are just easier to cause pain with than others.
Just a quick add on– Western roweled spurs are not automatically nastier than English knobbed spurs. The rowel is supposed to roll freely over the horse’s side. If the rowels are closely spaced, instead of widely spaced, and if the rowel is wide instead of narrow, it can actually be a very gentle sort of spur. Next time you go to a big tack store, pick up several different spurs and rub them over your wrist or arm. It will quickly become obvious which spurs are designed to ‘cue’ and which ones are designed to hurt. I’ve seen some ‘blunt’ English spurs that I wouldn’t let near a horse, because the edges are too sharp or the spur was designed to catch or gouge the horse.
Regardless of spur style, the best spurs are the ones you don’t mind having rubbed over your own skin. If you can’t picture scratching an itch or rubbing a sore muscle with your spurs, you probably don’t have the right spurs.
Too funny! I actually use my spurs to scratch itches on my back that I just can’t reach. The western rowel spurs really are the best for that because I can roll them up and down. Of course, I am not wearing them at the time. LOL.
The way you are using spurs is NOT abuse.
In my opinion, any and all spurs should be used sparingly and only when a serious point needs to be made; when “giving a nudge” or something along those lines, you are using the tool appropriately and teaching the horse without causing overt fear and physical harm. Now, if you were jamming your spurs into his sides, or using your spurs because you’re angry and need to take it out on your horse, then it would be a completely different story.
As for the hurting part, you should remember that your horse has thick muscles and, what I assume is, a healthy amount of fat covering his ribs. If you are just nudging him with English Spurs, than what he’s feeling is a minor annoyance rather than actual pain.
I use English spurs the same way on my mare – as an emphasis on the aid, not the aid itself. She tends to swing her butt in at the canter, and a light bump with the spur makes her straighten out better than booting her with my heel. They were also helpful as an enhanced cue for teaching her to pick up the correct lead when that was an issue and again now as we’re starting flying changes.
I would NEVER use spurs if my lower leg wasn’t steady enough to keep them off her side when I’m not cueing her with them (nor would my coach let me!). She’s the first horse I’ve used them consistently with – my gelding (Mr. Rodeo Bronc) did fine with just leg. And I don’t use them when I ride Western, as she doesn’t need them then. Go figure. I’ve seen Western spurs, and the correct usage is similar, except that you’re rolling them rather than bumping.
I do own a pair of antique Western rowels (50+ years old) that used to belong to my dad, and all those suckers are for is hanging on my wall. They are SHARP. I can just imagine what would happen if you accidentally gave the horse a poke with them!
I had a moment of understanding yesterday as I watched a video on FB of a coming 3 year old who was being ridden with no bridle or saddle. He knew all the moves of a seasoned reining horse. I was the first one to negatively comment about the amount of riding and training this 2 year old must have endured to get to this point.
Here is what I figured out. You start them as a long yearling or early in their 2 year old year. Ride the hell out of them, make your money by either winning or selling this “amazing” young horse to some unsuspecting/gullible buyer, they break down by 8-10, you can destroy them and start another. You never have to put the money and time into feeding a senior horse or a horse who isn’t usable any more but is still sound enough to be a happy retiree. Your conscience is clear because you trained the horse, you fed the horse and looked after him and when he got a career/life ending injury, you humanely put him to sleep just like any responsible horse person should. Plus you got all the admiration of your horse friends for having such a wonderful horse and all the sympathy for losing him at such a young age.
Yep I see now how and why it happens in spite of all the proof of disastrous consequences.
I started mine lightly in his 3 year old year. I know this won’t guarantee that he’ll live past 30 but I hope it helps.
My thoughts exactly.
I haven’t ‘trained’ a horse, but the horse I am leasing is pretty green, he knows alot of stuff solid (w/t, canters balanced most of the time, jumping crossrails and verticals, small oxers) but there is plenty of stuff for us to do between lessons.
For example, he likes to travel up straight portions with his head to the outside and his butt swung in. So I ride with a dressage whip, yes, but I don’t ever really give him a good *THWACK* with it, I use it to gently and repetitively tap his bum over while I center his nose. If he holds it for even a step or two, alll you hear is “good boy!!” and lots of neck rubbing, even if the other people riding think I’m nuts, because he was “just walking in a straight line!” Well guess what, straight lines are an accomplishment!
I am also trying to teach him flying changes (we have 3 feet of snow on the ground, we get bored doing the same things in the little indoor arena over and over) so if he comes back to trot and canters off again at ALL on the diagonal, its good boy!!!! all over again. (we’re just getting started, so reducing trot steps isn’t the priority yet.)
the other thing is, you can’t do “training” rides all the time, you have to do some ‘fun’ things too. A ride where you don’t plan to accomlish anything, just exercise and have some fun with your horse. That is why you got him, right?
“The other people riding think I’m nuts, because he was “just walking in a straight line!†Well guess what, straight lines are an accomplishment!”
Dingdingdingdingding! Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!
lol thanks.
I can’t stand when people think that just because he is 8, he should be able to do the same things that the other 8 year old at the barn can – flying changes, jumping 3feet, perfect balance, collect and extend wonderfully, and ignore small screechy children. despite the fact he sat in a yard with NH people doing nothing for the first 5 years of his life.
Its kind of like people, one 8 year old can add, subtract, divide, multiply and read a harry potter book in a few hours, but the next one might spend 30 minutes on a Math worksheet.
Well, the videos are removed; but the comments give a good description of what was there. I’m very curious…is it common for horses with 30 days under saddle to be expected to learn to spin? I would never in a million years have thought that appropriate for a horse of any age with only 30 days of saddle training. (I have an issue with the age of the horse too.) I’ve ridden in and audited both dressage and eventing clinics, and the clinicians always adjusted their training to the level of the horse. So, are the expectations for reiners different? Was the clinician asking something the audience would have found inappropriate, or did they all think that teaching spinning at this stage of the game was perfectly okay?
Then the other issue is the obvious abuse. So, why did all the attendees and the owner go along with it? I’ve gotten in a trainer’s face before over the treatment of my horse. I told him if he lost his temper again on my horse that my spurs would be embedded in his backside; and he’d never be able to find work again. He actually took me seriously. What’s stopping other owners from doing that? You’d stop someone from abusing a kid, right? So what’s so hard about making sure your horse isn’t being unfairly manhandled? And, if you paid good money for an “expert” and they’re not demonstrating appropriate expertise, demand your money back. There’d be a lot less “trainers” out there if owners would just grow a backbone and QUIT FUNDING THEM!!!
Sometimes I feel like I grew up on another planet….
What happened to patience???? All I would EVER expect from a horse that age with 30 days under saddle is walk/trot/stop. MAYBE some canter if they were balanced enough with the rider. And that’s on a 5 day/week program with 2 rest days and ground work interspersed with the saddle work.
Asking for advanced moves at that stage is obscene. It’s exactly what they do to those poor kids who are Olympic level gymnasts or figure skaters and for exactly the sames reasons…and with the same result – an early physical and mental breakdown.
I could not agree more with your opinion. 100% agreement.
My gelding could spin pretty nicely at 30 days under saddle. Not 100% of the time and not always to perfect form but he was starting to come together. He was 3 ½ at the time and not being pushed for a futurity.
Almost glad I couldn’t see the videos. Not sure I could take that today after having just seen the sad news from Newbury racetrack. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/9395743.stm if you haven’t heard yet. So tragic and awful
)
I think any time you put someone on a stage, there is a pressure to do what the audience expects to see. A good performer – in any discipline, be it horse training, music, the circus, or teaching – is aware of that and can cope with it. A bad one cannot and then things like this happen – an abused horse, an unruly class, an unsafe stunt.
I could not see the videos, but I didn’t need to. Just by the colt’s body posture, I can see he’s very green, he’s not giving to rein pressure, hence the inverted neck and raised head. He needs lots of slow, gentle training, BEFORE he’s asked to do more. If I was the clinician, I would have dismounted, told the owner to allow him more time to mature – phyically and mentally. (I don’t ride mine till they are 4, but they have had 4 years of gentle training up until it’s time to ride or learning how to relax, give to pressure, long lining, etc.) If anyone, no matter what the BN, if they mistreated my colt, I would have stopped them and taken my colt home. I always worry if a rider/trainer is willing to abuse them in public, what worse most happen to them at home. Take the poor little thing home and let him mature some more. And, it sounds like his rider needs to do some maturing too. What’s up with the other horse in the video’s nose up in the air with his mouth pried open. Someone needs to work on their hands there too. Riding – the art of learning how to NOT interfer with your horse so he can do his job.
(Could not see the videos – as noted above, they are long gone at this point)
A person who rides and competes and may not be anything more than a rider who competes. Success in the ring does not necessarily equate to training and teaching ability.
Any capable horse trainer – and any clinician should be a capable horse trainer – will know to ride the horse, not the plan. They should be able to keep appropriately calm and controlled under all circumstances and will also have the judgement and ability to explain what they were hoping to do, how they asked for it, how it *should* work, how and why the horse reacted as it did and where you go from ‘here’. (The last being perhaps the most valuable and useful bit of info for the audience.) Being able to do ALL of that should be a given – or you should not be conducting a clinic. (Or even lessons and/or training, for that matter).
I could see the videos just now, so somehow they’ve been put back up. However, I didn’t finish watching. That stupid and cruel woman! At first I had no clue what she was even asking the poor horse to do. Once I realized it was turn in a circle, then I just got further pissed watching her give ZERO reward when he did anything right. My daughter heard me shouting, “Dammit, would you just give him a PAT and let him stop before you gore him to death!”
This isn’t anything I haven’t seen before, either, I’m afraid, tho not at a clinic. I know I’ve watched trainers get after horses to excess when they weren’t being “bad” – they just didn’t understand, and the trainer was out of patience. It’s easy to get frustrated with animals. But anyone who resorts to physical abuse – which this clearly was – needs to not be a trainer. Or else, to realize when a horse or a dog is really pushing all their buttons and they need to WALK AWAY.
I am still ashamed to this day about the time a horse didn’t cooperate in a horse show class and I took it out on her (I’m sure it had been my fault for not asking her properly in the first place). All I did was give her a really hard kick on both sides ( no spurs), and then bring her up short, but oh, boy, it was wrong and I knew it. My mom saw the whole thing and she pulled me off the horse and YELLED at me (I was 16). I was crying in remorse already, so I was allowed to keep competing that day. But I’ll always feel bad.
Blast the “Fugly Effect”. I check the blog at 9:30 this am – nuthin’ new. It’s now 3:30pm and the vids are gonzo. Poo.
[musical interlude... "I got the powah!"]
Ya gotta admit, when the video gets yanked that fast, someone “got a clue!” Now, will the bad performance continue? Or will she admit to some defeat, and try to improve on her next clinic? Only time, and someone else with a video camera, will prevail. But she is obviously on notice!
Lol, the vids are down already, so I’m commenting off of your own blog, Cathy, and not from the videos.
Here is your quote: “I just think that, ultimately, horse training doesn’t work in a presentation setting for this reason. ”
Horse training gone wrong is PERFECT for a clinic situation, if only people would understand that this IS horse training. It doesn’t always go right, and it’s okay to wait until tomorrow. It’s okay to settle for one little step forward, instead of the whole thing.
I want people to understand that training horses and riders is a diverse and varied process. Riders, handlers, EVERYONE needs to learn that horses aren’t machines. Good days, bad days, normal days… they are all part of training, and we should be at clinics learning how to deal correctly with the problems that come up during a training session.
I think clinics have their place and even for green horses can be very useful BUT the owners of the horse need to know when enough is enough and not expect miracles. I think it is always good to see the clinic before participating in it to be sure it will be a good fit.
I agree that most people don’t want to disagree with the trainer or clinician but it is by disagreeing that the clinician will learn that they don’t need to produce miracles to be a good trainer.
http://www.islandhorsesforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45892&highlight=
I didn’t get past the first page (and apparently there’s 6 or 8 pages!)… why did you link?
I saw both videos earlier, but my comment then didn’t load. Essentially, the videos show the rider trying to get the horse to turn circles with the forelegs while the hindlegs turn in one place. (I’ve only ever ridden English style, so I understand this as a very advanced dressage move, but am not clear on its place in Western riding.) The horse seemed to be trying to do what was wanted, and did at some points, but the signals from the rider were confused and sometimes he was just standing still and at others trying to move away. At some points the rider was lifting her foot about 12 inches from the horse’s side in order to kick it as hard as she could. I didn’t see spurs (wasn’t looking that closely), but if she was wearing them then the horse will be bruised as a minimum. She was also using a whip, mostly with her hand still on the reins so that she was jerking the mouth when using the whip. I couldn’t see any consistent messages from which the horse could have learnt when he had done what was wanted and when he hadn’t.
At two and a half a horse should still be growing. At 30 days under saddle, it is still adjusting its balance to having a rider, and is strengthening its muscles, ligaments and tendons to adjust to the weight and movement of a rider on its back. So physically, anything other than easy movement forward and large diameter smooth turns is going to be problematic.
From a schooling point of view, all that should be done so early on is to get the horse moving freely forward under saddle, answering to simple, clear aids, and learning that being ridden is enjoyable. The horse should be trained to respond to the lightest possible aids to mouth and flanks, as using heavy aids will lead to mouth and flanks becoming hardened and progressively less sensitive over the horse’s life.
To me, the rider looked as though she was trying something which was beyond the joint competence of her and the horse and then got flustered over what she was doing and didn’t stop quickly enough or think through what she was doing. I’d give it an “out of her depth and it went wrong” rather than a “deliberately and routinely abusive”. But I don’t know Western riding or training, so my judgement on that may be off in either direction.
Green/untrained horses and these clinics are about as compatiable as oil and water. Laugh, even the circues don’t display their horses till they are well trained. In my not so humble opinion, yep, these clinics are circuses.
These things didn’t exist all that long ago. If you and your horse went to a clinic it was to improve your riding.
Page 17 in the March issue of Western Horseman sums it up, $199 + a fortune cookie and Parelli will spin his magic!
People really pay $199 for that handful of stuff? He sucks big time as a trainer but he is one hell of a brilliant marketer! I’ll give him that…
If I remember my Parelli history correctly (ahem ;o), his wife Linda is the marketer. She attended one of his early clinics, saw that he sucked at marketing almost as much as he sucked at training (at least he credits the old-timey guys who REALLY knew what they were doing with giving him his start), so she approached him with her marketing expertise and today they are a “team.”
My problem with Parelli is that so much of what he does is dangerous to people who hear a bit of what he says, see a bit of what he does and then decide to try that “cantering around me in small circles while I fall in a heap on the ground” game with Ol’ Diablo as soon as they get home from the clinic. I’ve watched the games and the Level 1 and all (there are Parelli devotees everywhere and their clinics are open to auditors), and I just don’t see that any of what he says or does is much different than the common sense approach to horse handling that I use. (My methods are cheaper, too ;o)
So many people new to horses buy green horses, which is their first mistake. My first horse was probably a second level dressage horse, though I showed English Pleasure and Bridle Path Hack on the AQHA circuit (back before horses went in the poll-level-with-withers mode of today).
Lobo is adorable! Fugly as can be, but I love the look in his eyes right before the rider mounts. He looks like a cheeky addition to any stable…
Damn I didn’t get to see the videos, I hadn’t heard of this person before, are they well known? Other than being showcased on the Fugly Blog that is…
I couldn’t see the videos either but I had a non-abusive but dangerous experience – and I was on my horse at the time! Trainer started out good, natural type, got some good results on some easy cases. Then he got a following and got the hubris virus. An army of people would show up to observe a session, bring beer and play some woo-woo pseudo-country Bonding-With-My-Horse music. Well heck, I thought, if I can sing in front of people I should be able to ride my horse in front of these.
So on I got and I was told to lope him in the round pen and while we were loping I was supposed to pull on the outside rein (we were using a rope halter with mecate-style reins). Horse didn’t understand the lesson plan and sped up. Trainer didn’t notice because he was busy pontificating to the crowd. I informed trainer that it didn’t seem to be working. He interrupted his lecture to tell me to keep doing this thing that wasn’t working. I kept pulling and horse kept speeding up.
I might add here that I was the one paying him, I was on a neophobic mustang, trainer knew mustang was flighty, and it was obvious that mustang’s brains had fallen out into the dirt. If he had bothered to turn around and look.
So mustang and I were now traveling at warp speed in a small circle at about a 45 degree angle to the ground and I thought that if I didn’t die in a wreck, I would die from dizziness. Then I heard him say to the crowd: “What is she doing wrong?”
I lost it. “I picked the wrong fucking trainer, you fucking moron! Now get off of your ass, tell the peanut gallery to back the fuck off, turn off that hillbilly music and STOP MY HORSE!”
Things got quiet, he stopped my horse, I got down, poked my finger in his chest and yelled “We are DONE, asshole!”
It turns out I wasn’t the only person who had a showboating problem with this guy and over time we heard less and less about him. He probably didn’t intend to teach me something I learned from him: He who hires a cookie-cutter trainer may get broken cookies.
Heh. Marry me?
Totally kidding, but I would wish to see a video of that. It might make my year. I could keep it on my hard drive, and when things get frustrating at work I could play it over and over.
“I picked the wrong trainer….”
LOVE… not like, LOVE it.
You know, there might have been someone with a camera there. He”d have to be dumber than I thought if he put that in a training video…might be worth it to search You Tube for woman+trainer+NSFW.
Off Topic:
I just made the mistake of going to Mike’s Auction in Mira Loma. There were some nice looking horses and a lot of sad-looking ones as well, including a sweet skinny draft mule mare with sad eyes and gee, is Ben Warren at it again? One of his, a 2007 colt called Warren’s Relic, was being sold. I inquired about him and saw the registration papers. He was at the back of the lot, number 932. I was told once that the higher numbers sell last and usually go as a lot to the kill buyers. I don’t know if there was a minimum bid set on that horse and when I left they were still auctioning tack so I don’t know the outcome. It’s pretty bad to see a multi-millionaire selling his stock at a cheap auction.
Why did I go there? If I could afford it I would buy the big old gelding with the kind face and ribs showing and give him a nice old age. And maybe the 18-year-old chestnut gelding well broke. Well, as long as I’m wishing, I would save them all.
There were several very nice horses there too and when I left they were unloading a bunch of ponies/minis. Another truck full of horses had pulled in and had not yet unloaded.
The Thoroughbred, Warren’s Relic, was pacing up a dust cloud and covered in sweat. He doesn’t have a record on equibase, so I don’t imagine he’s been raced. Also, he’s very small. I thought he was a two year old.
There was also a BIG dark chestnut Thoroughbred mare, pedigree here: http://www.pedigreequery.com/power+annie
Her name was Power Annie. She looked like she was 17 hands — although it’s hard to tell. She has no record as a broodmare and her last race was in 1991 so she must have been doing something these last ten years. Her hip number is 933.
I wish there were rescues buying at this auction.
There are. Nicki Branch (Falcon Ridge) buys when she can, so does Caroline Betts (SoCal TB Rescue). If you want to see something saved, those are the gals to donate to.
I went to Mike’s last month… SO depressing. Worse than Enumclaw. I will probably go in March.
I did not see the video and I’m not comfortable commenting on it. But I would like to comment on 2 things about clinics:
1.) Troubleshooting or training clinics have to use the naughty horse or the untrained, so I have no issue with young horses being used in a clinic setting (please do not respond telling me what a bitch I am because I’m supporting this trainer. I did not see the video so I refuse to comment) But, if you are going to be doing a clinic about how to work with a horse that bucks, a well trained creature is not going to help the auditors. Additionally, the clinic setting is a great way to introduce young horses to things & since they are unpredictable, it gives your audience a real world look at what could happen. I personally hate sitting in a clinic & the “just started this morning horse” is flawless. It makes me want to beg for the clinicians for reimbursement of my lost time.
2.) I have had the pleasure of watching a clincian work 3 different times over 5 years and her technique is pretty much the same each time. She talks to everyone like they are real people, no showman style or trying to be funny. She just shoots from the hip. A few weeks ago, I watched her with a horse that had been in her clinic for all these years. The horse is a 12 yr old OTTB who is usually quiet under saddle & always makes the clinic participant riding her look good. On this particular morning, the mare was Miss Cranky Pants. She pinned her ears and showed her teeth during warm up (this clinician has riders who travel with her to help & warm up the teaching horses). She kicked at another horse. The clincian stopped and used it as a “teachable moment” as she called it. She explained horses are like children and though you teach and teach and teach them, if they don’t feel good or are tired (overworked/burnt out), if they are bored or deem the activity mundane or even just because they have a mind of their own, they could deviate from their training. While she was doing this “clinic improv”, she unsaddled the horse, ran her hands all over the mare, and then pointed out what she called “a little pinchy” and showed how the mare swished her tail, pinned her ears, and gave her a dirty look. She said it appears that mare has something going on making her uncomfortable & she needs to go rest in her stall. She asked for them to give her a hand for trying & for showing them she wasn’t happy without killing someone. She then kissed her nose & handed her off to an assistant and apologized to the audiethe loss of clinic time, brought in a substitute horse & went on her way. What I took away from it, was the idea that even a solid riding horse with years of public experience can have a bad day (yes in this case it was medical but it could have just as easily been attitude). The trainer even stated it before she go going: The thought process of we only bring out our perfect horses to show or ride is faulty logic. The young horse needs the experience and the older horse may just be sick and tired of its job. Don’t be afraid to take your young horses out and don’t rely on the steady mount so much you let your guard down. Horses can and will deviate from their training. It’s in their nature & it’s your job to understand their world since you are choosing to enter it.
Now see, that is what I’m talking about: THOSE are the problems we face every day with horses. Going to a clinic and seeing how a professional handles such problems can be either bad (beating up a 2 yr old) or good (figuring out the pro was sore and needed a day off). If enough of the good experiences are witnessed in clinics, it becomes a positive teaching moment.
“Look, Mom, it’s okay to have bad days. It’s okay to laugh and shrug and try again later, or try a different way, or say, “Welp, this isn’t gonna happen. Let’s see if we can find out why.”"
I can’t imagine teaching spins to a horse 30 days under saddle- my bonnie is 90 days in and has only even cantered once. We are taking it slow for both of us
.
Unrealated but hoping someone on here can help- I manage a pet store in the Dayton Ohio area and a regular customer came in asking if I knew anyone who was into horses. Turns out she is trying to find homes for a small herd of Paso Finos in a bad situation. They belong to an elderly gentleman who had a stroke. He has been forclosed on due to medical bills, and is unable to care for them. They have had no feed/care since late summer other than neighbors tossing hay over the fence. They are on about 7 acres with no shelter, just some trees. The humane society is trying to help, and the owner wants to give them away free to good homes. There is one Stallion and 11 Mares. 10 mares are pregnant now- one gave birth yesterday out in the snow…when found the baby was frozen and stiff. They took him inside and did revive him, but he didn’t last the night. My customer (one of the concerned neighbors) brought pictures of the poor foal…we were all about crying standing at my sales counter. They are trying to find homes for the mares before they drop any more foals out there in the snow. I have not personally seen them, but I do have her contact number. If you might be able to help out email me at shayaalliard at hotmail dot com and I will pass on her number. They are near Xenia Ohio. The local rescue is willing to take the babies once they are on the ground and weaned- but cannot/will not help the adults. I have heard kind of odd things about that rescue.
If you truly want to help these horses in my opinion first you need to be more open about where they are if you want members of this blog to help. I would also recommend that you contact the media.In my experience where I live nothing gets done until public pressure is put on the rescues etc to take action. People will step up but they need the facts and information. Have someone go out and take some pictures, video get the word out and I know you can rescue these horses especially since the owner is cooperating. Don’t leave this to someone else, get involved, call people you can do this! I have rescued over 20 horses in two years just by enlisting my friends and putting information out over the internet. If I can do it anyone can. Good luck
I’ve passed on the info to everyone I can think of, but all I have is my customer’s phone number- and she is just the neighbor’s friend. I don’t know where they are beyond that, and have never seen them. She brought a picture of the baby after defrosting but before dying…other than that I’ve never seen them. I’d love to out where they are if I knew. Thanks for the rescue number I will pass it along too. I was surprised that our local rescue here in Miamisburg was unwilling to help.
Google rescues in Ohio and call them all. Also try the Hooved Animal Humane Society 815-337-5563. They’re in Illinois but might be able to help/
Trying contacting someone through through these..
http://www.masondixonpfha.org/contact.php
http://www.americanpasofinos.com/forum/index.php
http://www.pfha.org/content/contact/Default.aspx
http://www.piedmontpasofino.org/ (They’re a bit further south, but several members do get very involved in situations like this.)
The more info.. the better.
Anyone who wants more background on this video can go to Island Horse http://www.islandhorsesforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45898&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40
It looks like this is where the video was first posted. It says this trainer is from the Okanagan British Columbia, Canada.
Hope it is not against the rules to talk about another blog?
the link Paintedcowgirl posted is actually where it originated from
This is another video of Amanda riding a horse,no whipping or spurring but is the horse slightly limping? . What does everyone else say?
Sucks that he videos got taken down – I don’t see how the person posting could have had legal action taken against them, they just documented what the trainer did.
I personally can see how it would make someone feel under pressure – but that’s a stituation you let yourself get into when you chose to do the clinic. I have the opinion that while you may FEEL pressured, any good trainer would react calmly. I think that is shows maturity when you can handle failure in front of a group of people. I would much rather see someone in this situation just say ‘Ok, obviously this is not going as well as I thought – it will take more time than I currently have, however, I will be more than happy to post pictures/videos ect when I finally DO get the horse to react the way I want.’ I would respect someone much more as a trainer when they don’t push the horse too far or get frustrated – I have always said that if you are getting angry at the horse, the session will not end well. In order to be a good trainer you have to be able to control your emotions. I once read a saying that goes something like this ‘You can’t control a horse if you can’t control your emotions’ and I find that to be very true.
Personally, I think anyone who blows their cool in front of a group of people rather than just ending the session on a good note and saying that it will take a little longer than you though isn’t a good trainer. A good trainer knows when it’s time to call it a day. I can see that when you’re in a bad situation and the horse is flat out refusing to do anything you ask of it, you need to keep on going until you have some success, no matter how minor – so that the session ends well, but if you know that the horse is just NOT going to do what you’re asking, it’s time to admit that and focus on something else.
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
I’m sorry, this isn’t in relation to the post, but I thought I’d point this out to you: http://www.nptelegraph.com/articles/2011/02/11/news/40001390.txt
Thank you for posting that information.
Damn, I waited too long and now the vids are gone.
I agree that super green young horses in clinics are a very bad idea. There is too much outside stimulation to expect a baby to be able to relax and focus on learning. Also, I don’t do reining, but what on Earth is anyone doing with spurs on a baby who has just 30 days under saddle? And teaching spins??? Wow. This sounds like a recipe to teach a baby how to flip over backwards. I did not see the video, but the descriptions all involve the clinician holding the horse to prevent him from going forward while spurring and hitting. I have never met a greenie with 30 days riding who would not get confused and do something very dangerous with that sort of treatment. They just don’t know enough yet. At 30 days they know how to accept the bit, go forward, and how to walk, trot, canter, steer, and stop.
I agree with you, and there were moments in video #2 where you could totally see that the baby was thinking that maybe up and over wouldn’t be such a bad way to get away from the pressure, and maybe that was even what was being asked for. When you put a lot of pressure on their sides while giving no release to their face, guess what, they might NOT figure out that lateral movement is what you’re looking for. And Amanda didn’t seem to have enough feel or timing to figure that out.
Perhaps she has never had one flip over on her, because once that happens once you NEVER want it to happen again. You can tell trainers who really have a lot of experience because they are very careful not to push a horse to that level. An experienced trainer has a healthy level of fear/respect for these strong, heavy, dangerous animals.
I’ve never had it happen but I’ve felt that shift in balance and if I thought there was a real risk, I’ve bailed. Better to land on your feet than with a horse on top of you…I was very close in the arena to a bad flipping accident years ago and I have never forgotten it.
When I say credentials I did not mean show wins. Showing and winning are not training. Who taught her to ride, who taught her the basics? They certainly look to be out of the backwoods.
Here is a wonderful example of what I talk about when I say credentials.
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2011/02/13/inspiring-xenophon-seminar-münster
The videos have now been removed by the user.
Most of the clinics I’ve been to, there was an understanding that there’s a seriously limited amount that gets done in a clinic. But then I’m talking about clinics with people like George Morris who are old, old pros. Horse acts up, clinician says, “Not your day, go stand over there and watch.”
“It says this trainer is from the Okanagan British Columbia, Canada.”
It also says on the top of this blog, her name is Amanda Self. I googled her, the website is; http://www.selfmadeperformancehorses.com/
This is something written about her on another site (advertising her clinic) “”Amanda” believes in an open, friendly training and teaching atmosphere; “Amanda” is more than a trainer shes a teacher!
Uhhh……. Ya. She is also an abuser!
You can follow another site that talks about it in more detail, this is actually where is was first posted:
http://pghorseforum.myfastforum.org/about1213.html
I don’t know much about western riding but teaching a green horse who’s been ridden 3 times to do spins? Really??
And there’s really no excuse for spurring and whipping a horse repeatedly. Even if the horse is just being stubborn (which I’m pretty sure was not the case, even though I couldn’t see the videos) you just need to do it until the horse shows some signs of trying to cooperate. If the horse is willing to try and still can’t do what i asked of him, I’m pretty sure every single time it’s the rider’s fault not the horse’s.
I just have to say, it’s so great to see Miracle moving on her own!
Oops I mean ridden for 30 days, sorry *smacks self*
Ridden 30 days, not three times. But still.
Ok ladies, have any of you been kicked by a horse? bitten, struck? How about had your legged rubbed so hard against the arena wall your knee bleed and your wranglers ripped open? If you think Amanda is a horse abuser you should get yourselves on youtube and start searching… you haven’t seen anything yet!
This horse was pushing on the lady and bullying her around, so like a good coach Amanda offered to help when the owner was exhausted. She did not say anything, so she could not have been that bothered. She also had 2 months of professional training done on the the gelding and he was taught to do these things, he was just being a pushy prick.
Cindy also neglected to say she still came back for the last day of the clinic after this ride, obvisiously she enjoyed the help she was getting, and now she is enjoying all of the attention she is getting from running Amanda’s name down! What kind of person is CINDY?
Amanda has a reputation for helping people and horses have more fun than they have ever dreamed, and always looks out for the horses best interest. Amanda does not ride lame or sick horses, the horse always comes before her.
SO before you run her name in the ground anymore, check your facts, this horse experienced way less pain than another horse kicking it or biting it in the wild.
I started to respond to that…
And then I realized…
There is a level of stupidity that doesn’t merit a response. You have achieved that level. CONGRATULATIONS!
LMAO ^
It never fails. They/someone always has to come on and says stuff like that…
I REALLY liked the part about the horses in the wild. That was the point where I was like…no…really…I can’t waste my time typing back to this…it’s just too lame a defense!
Let me guess you guys trail ride and love your horses up with treats on a daily basis, and never make it break a sweat? Get bent, stupid comments? I am a fellow horse trainer, and you need to make a living somehow, owners want results… treats and pats don’t make that happen. About the wild, don’t say you can not comment, you know I am right, it is like that.
About the fun, how do you think you get to fun? You train, or practice on a trained horse. all these people say they are having fun lunging and doing ground work, well thats great for a bought an hour. The great part is a big stop or a getting your passage just right.
You are all rediculious, running down someones business, just because you can sit on your computers and complain from a distance, get out there and save some starving neglected horses if you are so great.
Um, I’ve been in polo my whole life…not exactly a sport where horses don’t break a sweat.
And yes, you’re still a moron who couldn’t make a logical argument if your life depended upon it.
Finally, many people here, myself included, DO save starving, neglected horses…usually with money we earned at WORK…amazing concept, yes, I know…
By the way, it’s r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s. You know, you can get your GED online these days! It’s not too late!
Oh….. I just can NOT resist. I know this is an older thread, but I MUST comment. Have to!!! Forgive me Cathy.
Wild horses actually connect with each other FAR less frequently in herd situations than domestic horses. Unlike domestic horses, wild horses figured it out a long time ago– get cuts, bruises, and breaks in the wild, and you die. It kinda weeds out the violent horses when they die of tetanus and other injury related problems. So no, wild horses do NOT kick and bite each other all the time. With the exception of territorial stallions, most wild horses posture and demonstrate or bluff to get their way.
Treats and rewards create a far more lasting, permanent response in a training situation than punishment does, but it is also much harder to condition behavior using treats when the behavior that is desired isn’t clear. The BEST training methods which work the fastest and last the longest are methods that combine both extinction of options and rewards for correct behavior. Operating strictly on negative reinforcement is a slower way to work and train, unless you goal is to teach the animal what NOT to do.
Horses with locked jaws are tense and generally don’t learn well. Horses that are ‘chewing’ or actually eating tend to retain training better. This is due to a natural instinct that says, “If what I’m doing is letting me eat or relax, I probably better remember what situation brought this positive experience.”
If you want to come on a forum board and pretend that you know a lot about training, I would suggest that in the future, you pick a board that isn’t frequented by good trainers.
Listen aes….whoever has trained a green horse or has worked with horses has had their jeans ripped, been kicked, bitten and had their knees bumped up against trees and bloodied. If you are afraid of these things happening I hope you don’t work around horses. The horse here was not being a pushy prick he was just totally mindfucked. If Amanda was such a great trainer she would of had enough common sense not to show off and get on this horse. This poor boy needs to get away from its current owner and be patiently retrained from the ground up. Congratulations Amanda for adding more confusion and poor training to an already confused horse.
Where to start? I AM a professional trainer and I have had all of those things happen to me.. and many more. I have gotten rough with dangerous horses before. I just think that to put that much pressure on a green baby is inappropriate. There is difference between making sure that the owner will be safe on a horse and pressuring a baby to learn spins.
Wait I think I have heard of this training method before. When and only when you have sent your horse to the best trainer and they are still bullying you you should take your horse and release them into the wild. Then all the wild horsies will bite and kick your horse and teach him a lesson. When you retrieve him he will be very sorry. :}
Funny, we used to do that with the babies that we couldn’t get broke.. turn them out with the broodies for a year. Worked every time. LOL.
“aes says:
Ok ladies, have any of you been kicked by a horse? bitten, struck? How about had your legged rubbed so hard against the arena wall your knee bleed and your wranglers ripped open? ”
Yep, all by the time I was about ten years old. Bucked off AND kicked in the ribs on the way down (when I was about 4 years old), run over, stomped on, bucked off and straddled, kicked, bitten, rubbed off, etc., etc., etc.
And I LOVED that damn Shetland pony!!!!! LOL!
Being horse crazy is not for the faint of heart, or the weak tempered.
I invite you to view what treats and pets CAN accomplish given TIME and patience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHaEzGz0HeE
You can watch his videos– He does, however, let his horses chew on him a bit too much, and he does let his horses treat him like a horse to the point where its kind of not cool – however, the basic principles are here, you CAN teach horses without bits or bridles as long as you have the patience and kindness to have the horse want to listen to you and learn.
aes….says….. “Amanda has a reputation for helping people and horses have more fun than they have ever dreamed,”
Really??? Wow, I cant WAIT for her to come to my area to give a clinic so I can have FUN Kicking and Whipping the shit out of my horse!…………. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Fun, Fun, Fun!
That Whitlock guy has two charges pending (over 28 dead horses) and now they’re trying to care for the 100 or o horses still left there…
http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/neglect-charges-laid-over-dead-horses/
I can’t see the vids anymore and haven’t read all the comments, I just wanted to say that in my personal opinion it actually often IS the pressure and all those people watching that cause this stuff.
But on the other hand, I ride green horses off the track on a fairly regular basis (OTTB and OTSTB) and I must say, usually, up until the horse has some sort of idea what is needed, horse training is NOT PRETTY.
By that I don’t mean I beat the shit out of these horses like this clinician apparently did, I just mean their heads are everywhere, they can react violently to leg cues (because they don’t know or expect them used in this manner), shit, I once got thrown off of an OTTB because I went to pat it on the neck for a good effort and she thought I was raising the crop to slap her shoulder…..
And I honestly don’t let people watch me ride these guys who do not ride green horses themselves or have seen other trainers do it, just because it can look very different to what is actually going on and afterwards, inexperienced people may think I’m a horrible trainer/rider, because my hands weren’t steady (when really I was following the horses head around, trying to let it relax with a steady contact) or because my leg cues are erratic (because some horses need to be cued several times even after “getting” what the leg cue is supposed to mean) or because my seat is not immaculate during a buck or riding a horse who is shy of the leg to begin with (lol sometimes adopting the “chair seat” does help these candidates initially)
I guess what I’m trying to say is, that unless the horse is pretty well finished, stuff can look wierd and many people who have not seen horse training in action before may judge someone based on the wrong criteria, comparing them to people riding “finished” horses.
Anyways, I can’t pass judgement on those videos as they have been taken down, I just think sometimes people should be less vocal about things they don’t really know much about.
If somebody is beating the shit out of their horse, sure, speak up, but I don’t really want to be told that my heels weren’t down when that youngster took me for a few laps of rodeo-style-bucking unless you are my trainer or i asked your opinion. And yes, I will smack his ass if he does it just to be funny.
Just saying….
Oh, sure. I mean, with OTTB’s, I’m very fond of using the wall to stop, and I know that can look bad to someone who has always ridden horses that already had brakes installed. (Although it was interesting to me that Jeff Cook was basically having someone do the same thing in his clinic – when the horse wanted to tear around the corner after the line, he had the rider circle tight toward the wall so that the horse HAD to slow down and come back, or biff into the wall.)
This was definitely over the top in my book, but yeah, the vids are gone.
I can’t see the vids anymore and haven’t read all the comments, I just wanted to say that in my personal opinion it actually often IS the pressure and all those people watching that cause this stuff. But on the other hand, I ride green horses off the track on a fairly regular basis (OTTB and OTSTB) and I must say, usually, up until the horse has some sort of idea what is needed, horse training is NOT PRETTY.
Yeah, I hear you here. I’ve worked with a ton of OTTBs and OTSTBs. I’ve done the one rein emergency stop, used the wall, and with my own gelding, frequently swore at him like a sailor when he pulled his rodeo bronc imitations. I’ve also dropped a gelding who though bolting on the lunge was cute and wouldn’t listen to the usual corrections. I cranked him around REALLY hard and he skidded and fell over. Not pretty, but he was fine and didn’t bolt again. I’d never do that with a horse who was bolting from fear.
I think the key here is if you have a very green horse, they ARE NOT SUITABLE for a high pressure clinic environment, and that needs to be taken into account. A rank, spoiled or less trained horse who can handle the crowd and the pressure is a whole other ball game, but most babies will be unhinged enough just by the whole clinic environment to make the exercise useless. I’m all for taking young horses to hang out or walk around a show or clinic just to expose them to the environment with no pressure. But for a clinic, no. Do a private session where they can focus on the training.
most babies will be unhinged enough just by the whole clinic environment to make the exercise useless.
EXACTLY. It is simply NOT the place to train…anything.
Yes, well, like I said, I just plain refuse to let people watch me if I don’t know for sure they can “take it”.
One of my best friends has this squealing problem – she gets scared, she does this really loud, high-pitched squeak.
It’s suicidal to ride young, green horses around her, because if they play up and she makes that noise they get terrified, potentially running into walls, trees or other horses/people. So she just doesn’t get to watch
Some people are just not made for this stuff, they get nervous break-down just from watching lol
So, there will be no clinics from me haha
On a positive note, Darlene, my scrawny, bay OTTB just got the thumbs up to start under saddle by my vet a couple of days ago and I’ve started riding her (I’m the chick with the mostly white ex-halter mare who loves jumping lol, just in case you remember).
She has been very polite about the pig rooting thing and seems to do it when I use “too much” leg (lol, meaning any at all when we go faster than a walk) or when she doesn’t get what I want. Seems the previous owner/jerk was a little impatient, prompting a donkey-imitation of stubborn resistance to become her favorite way of avoiding stuff. She doesn’t try to get me off very seriously but and riding her in a halter seems help some of the rein-snatching, head-throwing, noodle-shaking bad habits that a harsh hand often causes. She sort of swings her head down real fast and then stops, looking slightly confused when the bit doesn’t pull on her mouth….. Man that’s a funny look haha
No polo career for her though, most likely, she’s got too many little dings that may become bigger dings under too much pressure
I’m hoping for at least a nice trail horse though ^^