Making a list and checking it twice…
Dec 07 2010
Not Santa, but a new web site that seeks to give consumers the truth about any horse professional they are thinking of entrusting their horse or their child to!
I think it’s a great idea. It’s not some snarky blog that people can dismiss as being inflammatory or full of psychos. It’s a serious consumer-feedback site that allows people to share what they know of horse professionals, whether the news is good or bad.
Looks good to me – what do you think?
58 comments to “Making a list and checking it twice…”
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Love the idea … but I’m really ambivalent about it in practice.
I’m feeling lazy right now and can’t find all the specifics, but there is definitely at least a lawsuit or two that arose from this kind of site for reviewing doctors. Now, I don’t particularly care about the lawsuits, but the following article (http://patients.about.com/b/2009/03/02/yelp-and-zagat-more-cautionary-doctor-review-tales.htm) does talk about the extortion and politics that arise if such sites are unethically managed. I hope nothing of the sort happens here.
Now, I may get some flak for this (I’m ready!), but I think posting anonymous reviews as a rule can be unethical. To know where the reviewer is coming from, I want to know who they are, if they are related to the competition, if they are an abuser the trainer outed, etc. etc. Too many anonymous folks haunt the Internet spouting nonsense, and unwilling to stand by it. I know there are legitimate reasons to want to remain anonymous, but at the face of it, it’s really hard to distinguish a fair anonymous review from someone who has legitimate reason to want privacy, and an anonymous review from someone who just hates the person they are reviewing. I prefer to know that someone is so certain of what they are saying that they will sign their name to it.
Still, I am rooting for this site — I do like that they’re verifying users, at least.
While it may be a great idea, I’m hesitant with their $5 ‘verification’ fee. I’m not keen on giving my credit card number to a ‘third party’ to prevent spammers from logging on. There has got to be a better way.
Eh, I don’t know if there is or not. I mean, I require logging in and I do IP tracking but that doesn’t conclusively verify who is posting things. I assume for legal reasons they wanted near-absolute verification so if there is a lawsuit, you know who wrote what.
I think the $5 fee is to keep those from just “flaming” someone out of hand. Also, it’s a good way to track who said what… which is going to be necessary a few times, methinks. Love the idea!!
http://36andsingle.blogspot.com/
I thought the same thing about the $5 verification fee. Ok, charge me the $5, but then credit my account. You just re-verified that I’m me!
They should also have a section to rate transport companies. I’ve heard some real horror stories and I have one of my own I could add. Since most people have never used a commercial hauler, they have no idea who to trust and send their money off to someone and hope their horse arrives alive and well.
Oh SO true. I have also had very good and very bad experiences.
Good idea, but I tried to register to search in my area and they want to charge $5 to “verify” my identity. Seriously? Like, you can’t just send me an email and have me click on a link to confirm? I’m not signing up just because this rubbed me the wrong way.
The $5 verification is to link your info to something more “solid” than an email account. Anyone can create multiple email accounts. Hopefully, this would prevent someone from creating multiple profiles to give bogus reviews.
Same here. I would hate to pay the fee only to find out my area isn’t even covered.
In college I used something like that but relating to my professors when I was signing up for classes. I know a lot of people got upset about it, but I found it to be very useful when picking classes. This looks interesting! I like the idea, we’ll see how it is used.
Not sure page you type your CC info. into is actually secure (it claims to be but looked not so good to me), it is based on Pros. who advertise with them, so how useful will it be? The distances are all odd-it gives people who are 2 mi from me as being 60-70 mi away-WTF? We are in a more sophisticated age than that! Not impressed so far. Will wait to see what people who have paid the 5$ think. Also, will users be able to post and what is the post editing policy?
I bet as the site builds more reviewers, more businesses will appear near you. They probably don’t show up until someone has entered them to be reviewed.
OT… but Fugs, this would be an awesome person to feature here. Krazy Kolor breeder to the max, arguing with anyone who contradicts her, and also apparently semi-retarded with no grasp of the English language. It’s perfect FHOTD material:
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/the-colt-of-many-colors-365068.html
Take the brain bleach….. and sorry don’t know how to make it a clickable link.
It’s clickable, that’s automatic
I just read that entire thread, and nearly clawed my eyes out of my head. That woman has no business breeding horses or dogs.
Though, I must say some of the posts from other members really made me laugh.
*headdesk headdesk headdesk*
Wow. I couldn’t resist taking a peek at the thread and got sucked in! Just another example of shifty, ignorant assholes selling/breeding horses that are gonna end up on the long ride. I actually think this “breeder” may have some mental health issues… her writing was so, um, enthusiastic.
It was one long thread and I only read to half way! Sucked that all of the posters tried to talk her into gelding the poor thing to no avail. I think there will ALWAYS be these people no matter how much we wish they would go away. But it was refreshing to see so many pointing out to her why breeding him is a bad idea. BTW FHOTD I saw Krazy Kolor Breeder a couple times…. you’re readers are everywhere. I think you may be raising awareness in the horse world!!
Mental health issues? Perhaps. I just assumed she was unusuallt stupid. Haven’t you guys ever noticed that people who are kind of dumb continue to behave in a childlike manner well into adulthood? She talks like a 13 year old… actually, like a dumb 13 year old. I refrained from commenting because that’s exactly what I wanted to say.
My mare was discarded in a kill pen, with her dam, because she didn’t turn out colored from a stud who was “gauranteed” to throw color. I have been told by more than one person that unscrupulous color breeders will do this from time to time to get ride of the evidence that their stud made a non-colored baby. Sooo…. her idiocy pissed me off in particular because my sorrel mare was almost dog food because of idiots like her.
Nope, nope nope. Not giving them CC info. Not happening. There are other ways to verify id than to give personal financial info like that.
I stopped at the $5 fee too. That’s kind of a deal breaker for me. I’d rather spend $5 on my own horses. Also, I have friends, we talk. If I want to know about someone’s reputation, I’ll ask them. Or better yet, Google them. You’ll get all the info you need and more, without paying for it.
$5 buys a good amount of carrots, which sounds more worthwhile to me. Isn’t the best way to check out a barn to head out, watch a lesson or two, talk to the trainer, and get an idea of how their students and horses look? Not as high tech but it’s worked for me so far…
I have no problem paying the fee, I just haven’t gotten around to doing it yet. There are a few problems I see with the site, if you (as a barn, trainer, breeder, etc) don’t put yourself on there or someone else doesn’t go in and write a review then you won’t show up on the site. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a bad facility, it just means no one who is affiliated with that barn has said anything on the site. With people not wanting to pay the fee to use the site I can see where a lot of good places could get overlooked.
I noticed my trainer isn’t on there. I read through the first part of the terms and saw that these Pros are paying to have themselves on there. So does that mean if they get a lot of bad reviews they can just cancel their account and the world will never know?
I like and use http://www.ripoffreport.com
As far as I know, it’s free. I think the $5 to register on the rate my horse pro site is going to dissuade people (obviously from the comments here).
Go to Rip Off Report and put in “horse rescue” or “horse trainer” in the search function. Interesting info. there. And they have the law on their side and have “been there, done that” with all the libel/slander crap. It’s a good site.
I agree. It’s a good site, but of course it’s not specific to horses so there’s a lot more to wade through!
I love all the CBER discussion on Rip-Off Report. That was one of the first places everybody got to speak their mind!
OT, but I just saw this ad and thought I’d forward it along to try and help the poster… It may be too late, but it never hurts to try. Anyone in the PA area seen this horse?
http://classifieds.pennswoods.net/classifieds/viewad.cgi?adindex=977342
I like the idea of anonymous rating of professionals, especially in the age of show-ring politics. I do NOT like the idea of having to pay for it. There are tons of FREE services that “verify your identity” and record your IP address, so I wonder who ultimately benefits from the $5. Unfortunately, most of the people who seek out and use these types of forums are either extremely negative or extremely positive. The honest middle ground is usually woefully underrepresented. Having to pay to make a so-so review of something? Probably not. Paying $5 to try and prevent someone from getting royally screwed or to make my mom/cousin/uncle’s barn look better? Sure. Advertising.
While looking for boarding stables, I sometimes find that some of the best places still don’t have websites, or their websites are simple and out of date because they’re spending their time and money working in the barn, not on the website. They simply don’t need to advertise, but that makes them harder to find. I think going to local shows/events of your style (if you’re a gamer, go to a contest and if you’re a jumper, go to a USEF show etc.) and asking strangers/competitors where they board/who they train with is a far better way to get honest information. Ask the local extension office where the best 4-H kids ride. Find the Pony Club. Ask everyone. Ask for references. Find your breed registration’s list of members. It’s a lot more work, sure, but wouldn’t it be worth it in the end?
I’m a member and I LOVE it. I know the owner and to let everyone know, they are still working on a lot of stuff. She asked me for advice on the gaited horse part of it, and their group is working not to allow gaited horse breeders/exhibitors/trainers who have HPA violations on the site. Send in your suggestions–they need them!
Fugly, OT, but CHECK THIS OUT! The IALHA is coming down on someone who is over breeding Andalusians!!!!
0 likes
Katphoti,
What are the distances listed for pros, farriers, etc? When I go to the site it flips up people in NY which is where I am, but farriers and barns that are 2 mi. from me are showing distances of like 70 mi. Are those supposed to be locations (if so they are way off) or travel radii for the subscribing farrier?
Not sure why my link didn’t work, but here’s the article again: http://andalusianhorseclub.com/?p=231
$5 to give my opinion…I’d rather give it to my favorite shelter (human, horse, etc)..swing and a miss.
OT, but I’m hoping someone here in SoCal can get in and upgrade this poor horse. Arab stallion used for charro dancing, the pic shows him in a chain halter. Just about broke my heart. CL Ad
Here’s his other >a href=”http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/grd/2096629750.html>CL ad, as well as his EquineNow ad.
OMG…When you said “chain halter” I was picturing an Arab show halter, or maybe that Bob Hart contraption sold in Schneider’s. That horse is actually wearing a halter made entirely out of chain!!!
Welcome to the High Desert. I can also show you where to buy alligator steaks…
I’m sorry. It’s probably a very legit site, but as others have noted, as soon as it wanted $5 to prove my credit card, I stopped.
I also noticed that while there are certain farriers on their list of Pros, several very good, high quality farriers from my area aren’t listed. Likewise on the boarding stables. Not knocking the site, but they will need to build a strong solid reputation BEFORE I will trust them with my card info, or even my personal information.
Fugs I need your help!!!
I need to find the cached ads from craigslist.. for these ads
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Doulbe Reg. Buttermilk Buckskin Filly
Nov 22, 2010 … email this posting to a friend milwaukee craigslist > for sale / wanted > farm & … Doulbe Reg. Buttermilk Buckskin Filly (North Paririe) …
milwaukee.craigslist.org/grd/2074019011.html
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Double Reg. Filly For Sale
email this posting to a friend milwaukee craigslist > for sale / wanted …
milwaukee.craigslist.org/grd/2080926526.html
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L@@K REG. Buckskin Colt ( MUST GO TODAY!!!)
Nov 29, 2010 … email this posting to a friend milwaukee craigslist > for sale / wanted > farm … Buckskin Colt ( MUST GO TODAY!!!) – $125 (North Prairie) …
milwaukee.craigslist.org/grd/2084975364.html
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BuckSkin Colt For Sale
email this posting to a friend milwaukee craigslist > for sale / wanted …
milwaukee.craigslist.org/grd/2078932007.html
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Buckskin Colt For Sale
email this posting to a friend milwaukee craigslist > for sale / wanted …
milwaukee.craigslist.org/grd/2074027228.html
I can’t find it via google…
We just took in this colt, and want to ensure the seller gets us the promised “papers” for his registration…
Thanks
Carol
wnnahrse35@Hotmail.com
Google didn’t have a chance to cache them…sorry!
I’m confused…how did you get the colt? Do you know the seller’s name and address or did you get him indirectly?
Paying $5 (or any $$) for this kind of info ~ NOT. Word of mouth is best, and this site does not pass muster. A barn that is purportedly 6 miles from my city is one that I’ve never heard of and is actually in an area code that is way far away.
Someone I know had a problem with a local vet office so she sent out an email asking if any of her friends had had a bad experience. Turns out EVERY ONE of the dozen or so people had negative feedback about that vet office. In our area this is the ‘best’ equine vet. Since all of those people hit REPLY ALL when they told their stories now we all know its getting to be a serious problem and what types of things were happening. I’ll still use theat vet if I have to but I’ve started contacting other vets and am giving my own shots. Yes I could have read that info on a website but we got all the information from each other and we all knew who was saying what and didn’t have to pay $5.00.
Another post: they ARE legit and are not out to steal your money. The $5 fee helps run their servers, that’s it.
Hey Fugs… OT… but every time I come over to read your blog lately this message is popping up… The message reads:
‘Message from Webpage:
Stack overflow at line: 9′
I’ve just been closing the dialog box and continuing on with reading, but wondering if it’s my PC or truly your web page?
Has anyone else been receiving this message when they visit your blog?
Also on the trainer site idea.. I think it’s a potentially wonderful tool to have when searching for good trainers. I’ve seen a lot of fancy business cards at some nice facilities. But after speaking with the ‘trainer’ for a few minutes, realize, even I know more than that! You have to be very careful out there with your horses. Sure Mr/Ms ‘Fancy Business Cards’ might get your horse broke… but just may make them a basket case in some other area.
I understand the need to weed out the flamers, but a $5.00 fee to register seems like a big money maker for whom ever is just maintaining a website. $5.00 for what? Wish I’d thought of that one first. LOL
It’s the web site. Sorry about that, still trying to get this thing straightened out for good!
I used to have that problem a lot, and then I downloaded Google Chrome. It was like Christmas came early! Now this website (and every other website) is a lot faster and I don’t have any problems with commenting and scrolling on this page like I used to. Google hits another on out of the park….
OT, but is there a group or website that watches the New Holland Auction/takes photos? There’s someone near me that thinks she may have a situation where her horse may end up at New Holland:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Belle-QH-Draft-Mare/165402943496408?ref=mf&v=wall
Is anyone here familiar with the people named in this page? ( Amy Adams, AKA Sandy Boudreau )?
I heard about this via Blue Star Equiculture ( http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Blue-Star-Equiculture/95711030880 )
Thanks!
I like the concept, but I have a few concerns:
I’ve dealt with the “phantom” client before and they are nothing but headaches. These are people that claim they’ve bought a horse from you, sold a horse to you, purchased a breeding, took lessons etc, when in reality you’ve NEVER met the person. I actually had a current client meet a “phantom” client and get all this stuff about my background which was completely wrong. I’ve never lived in NJ in my life, how the hell could I have been training this person’s horses? Turns out it was a different Tracy in Appaloosas. So if they want to make sure this website has integrity then the people posting reviews better have concrete evidence that they’ve actually dealt with the person and aren’t just spouting nonsense or feeding the rumor train. ( I’ve even been accused of being the owner of this blog because I’ve trained polo horses, don’t hesitate to use curse words and don’t tolerate fools. So imagine the write up both Cathy and I would get from the legions of the disgruntled if we were mixed up on this new website.)
Problem two comes from the fact that a big name trainer that is a horse abusing POS could get lots of good reviews from his addlebrained, ribbon-hungry clients, simply because they equate winning with being ethical. There isn’t a BNT out there that doesn’t have their syncophants that would excuse everything including sacrificing babies in order to win. So how will this be constructively balanced?
I think it’s a good tool, but for it to really work they are going to have to cull the nuts and blind followers, and they are also going to have to allow people who get poor reviews to rebut the accusations, just in case it is a “phantom” client.
Tracy M
“I’ve even been accused of being the owner of this blog because I’ve trained polo horses, don’t hesitate to use curse words and don’t tolerate fools.”
LOL! But that statement applies to, like, at least a HUNDRED women I personally know!
No, really Cathy, we’re all the same person, including Jean that runs the Shame In the Horse Show Ring blog. One person, living in ten different states, with ten different ISPs, just ask the Delphi forum, or the gaited horse people or the rest of the whiners. Like it’s so inconceivable that more than one person would be disgusted with their crap.
Tracy
ROTFL…I know, I know.
Actually all of the comments here, including yours, are just aliases I created to make myself appear popular and well-supported.
I was pretty impressed with the list of names and boarding facilities that popped up when I clicked on the individual pictures. Anyone who is a horse professional can jump on that site, pay whatever fee and be on there. Not a fan of the $5 verification. Google is free. RipoffReport.com is free. Why am I going to pay $5 to tell someone they suck at running a business/teaching when I can do it for free? And while I think that leaving anonymous comments is cowardly, there are the kinds of lunatic individuals out there that you have to worry about them and what they might do to you or your animals. In the horse business it’s very rare that only one person has a bad experience with a professional – numerous anonymous reports of the same issues hold more than enough weight for me.
The page where you are entering your credit card information is NOT a secure page. I am not really familiar with the ins and outs of the finer points of the internet, but isn’t that how your credit card information can get stolen? Not cool.
OT ~ I received the following email tonight and wondered if there might be anything you can do either with research or intervention!
Love your work!
MIchele
******************************
Email penny if you need anymore info..
——————————————————————————–
From: Pennie Terrell [mailto:pennie01@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 8:57 PM
To: Land, Robert F
Subject: FW: [FWD: CUMMING, GA: 30 Horses $75 each - going to slaughter if not sold]
From: mfigley@nakedhoof.org [mailto:mfigley@nakedhoof.org]
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: [FWD: CUMMING, GA: 30 Horses $75 each - going to slaughter if not sold]
Generally speaking, I am not one to send out mass e-mails. However, I’m forwarding this along on the off chance that maybe someone can help. Please forward, share, and cross-post at will. Even if you can’t take a horse, someone you know might be able to.
Marian Figley
678-215-3930
Trimming Sunday, Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. I do not take checks, and I am no longer accepting clients more than 45 minutes away from me unless they are in a barn for which I already trim. Trims are $40 if the horse is well behaved and not a draft. Drafts are $50, and only if they stand well. I will not guarantee that if you need to reschedule I will be able to do so before your next regularly scheduled appointment.
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: CUMMING, GA: 30 Horses $75 each – going to slaughter if not
sold
From: Sue Crane
Date: Sun, November 28, 2010 10:11 am
To: Undisclosed recipients: ;
30 horses across the street from the Save The Horses rescue in Cumming are selling for 75.00 a piece. These horses were purchased at auction and those not sold will be shipped to slaughter. Please, if you have room for even one more horse, consider saving a life.
Please cross-post to all friends and organizations. A few photos attached. I have no further contact information, and nothing beyond what you see in this email. I will post updates as I receive them.
Horses are located across from 1768 Newt Green Rd., Cumming, GA 30028.
Sue Crane
suecrane@mac.com
404-312-9623
http://www.equusdreams.com
http://www.sosofhorses.com
Sue Crane
suecrane@mac.com
404-312-9623
http://www.equusdreams.com
http://www.sosofhorses.com
I much prefer reading the reviews on a “place page” via Google. There is no requirement to sign up or pay money in order to read or write a review. The process is open, free, and it applies to all businesses. Google also pulls comments from numerous different rating web-sites so all of the information is conveniently located in one place. The process is much simpler and there is no inherent bias concern.
Here is my barn as an example:
http://www.google.com/maps/place?cid=7293123475419785205&q=hunter's+run&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hunter's+run&hnear=Fall+City,+WA+98024&ei=dM39TPC7Jp6pnAfsmsTTCw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=placepage-link&resnum=5&ved=0CD8Q4gkwBA
And, no, I didn’t write the review but I am in full agreement with it.
Interesting thread here:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279709
Some folks are really unhappy with the site and how it works.
It seems to me they could charge the verification fee to post, but still make it free to just look at the information posted by others, without any problems. I don’t think thousands of people are going to be lining up to pay them, which makes their site essentially useless. I know five bucks isn’t much – but I have about a billion five dollar sites I would like to join, and they do add up, so you have to have some limits.
I think there are a lot of nutty horse owners out there that will place negative feedback regarding trainers that is not necessarily true. I know in the past we have had clients that needed training way more than the horse but since they can’t ride the problem had to be because of us. We’ve also had at least one client who was totally off her rocker. She sent us a very confused, mishandled (Parelli wanna-be owner) mare that we started undersaddle. The mare was here I believe for 4 weeks maybe not that long and was just basics of walk, trot and ride calmly around the farm. She took her home and decided she wanted to get a photo of herself standing on the horse. Well she stood up in the saddle, fell off and injured herself and then called us to tell us what a terrible job we did with her horse and prepared to slander us all over the place. If someone posts a negative comment I think the trainer should at least get to respond.
Copperhorse, I agree. I think there needs to be a process where anyone accused of stuff should be contacted by the site first to verify that the person has even had any dealings with them. I can’t imagine what the people that I filed complaints on for horse abuse would say about me. There is a huge potential for abuse. It’s one of those things that is a good idea, and I like the concept of a place where you can look up people’s ratings, but I also see where it could damage a person’s reputation unfairly because of how nuts some people in the horse world are inclined to be.
Tracy
I don’t think that I would pay $5 to see what people are writing about me, and I seriously hope I haven’t pissed anyone off enough for them to pay $5 to say something horrible about me =P I’m confident that my students and parents are honest with their feedback on the annual survey I hand out. It’s anomynous, and goes into a box at the barn. They can leave it whenever they want. They fill out a seperate goals and aspirations sheet to give to me as well =) Keeps us all on the same page and it’s FREE!