I <3 My Readers!
Dec 04 2010
Remember this guy?
That’s Alaska Bowtie. Auctioned for $190. I wish I could find the auction ring pic but I can’t – if you know where it is, please post it to the comments! Bailed out of the kill pen by one of my readers in October 2009 and sent to an eventing trainer. Very appropriate show name, by the way 
Love it!
So I understand all the pro-slaughter asshats are having a conference to discuss how they can deal with their unwanted horse bills problem. Animal Rescue Unit wants to send a video truck out to drive around and play some anti-slaughter footage. I think they should use THIS footage. This horse is a classic example of why I’m anti-slaughter, and always will be.
For those of you like myself who love TB mares, Carefree is a newly adoptable 9 year old mare at Shiloh Horse Rescue in Nevada. I bet she’d love a real home for Christmas!
134 comments to “I <3 My Readers!”
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I’m sad that Temple Grandin is headlining. Does she have any practical equine experience? I thought she was mainly production animals, and most of the articles on her website dealing in horses seem to be extrapolations from her autism work and studies in other animal systems. (Also, WTF on dumping a ton of wheat on a wild horse.) Not to impugn Dr. Grandin, who I do admire for her work in other areas, but if I were to create a summit to discuss quality horse processing in this country, I would be inviting speakers from other countries with successful systems to demonstrate, like vetted overseas processors, not generic animal science doctorates and pro-slaughter activists.
Their FB page is full of derp. You’ll see Dave Duquette’s name several times on the agenda, also an… interesting news feed. I’m also not sure that letting SHARK/PETA do their thing during this hot mess is the best way to protest, either, since they have their own huge problems I’d rather not have associated with this fight and are very easy to write off as the derp squad. Which they absolutely can be.
I like their Do Not Slaughter registry idea (in the agenda link), and possibly the rescues idea, though I don’t see how that would be implemented differently than current rescue orgs other than the slaughter pipeline.
For all I know, Dr. Grandin ins 100% correct about dealing with animals in high-volume processing situations. However, I have her book “Animals in Translation” and had to put it down before I was more than halfway through. Her ideas about animals as individuals simply do not make any sense. She says in that book either that all white or all blue-eyed horses are crazy (I don’t recall which). She had a number of theories about dogs that were so far off track that, if I thought it would do any good, I’d have written to her publisher and suggest she either not write about dogs or get a dog expert involved.
THANK YOU for saying that, DJayne! I also had to put the book down halfway through because she said all horses with blue eyes are crazy. I was shocked by that. I mean, I know she’s autistic, but come on–can’t her editor see that that was so way off base that it shouldn’t have been included?
I own a blue-eyed horse, but she’s only crazy because her sire was crazy. I know a blue-eyed pony who is quite possibly the safest, most gentle pony I’ve ever met. She loves children and is docile and quiet. I also know a blue-eyed paint who is an amazing lesson horse, and then two other horses that each have one blue eye who are amazing trail horses. So that really freaked me out when she said that.
Overall, though, blue eyes aside, I was shocked that she came up with this out of the blue (no pun intended) assumption when the rest of her book was so strongly based in science and observation. Honestly, I LOVE her slaugtherhouse design–it’s excellent and should be implemented in all plants that process meat animals. But then there came that comment and it was so off base the I was just weirded out by it. I should make her come to AZ and meet Sparkle, the blue-eyed pony, and see how NOT crazy she is–maybe she’d be willing to change her mind!
Dr. Grandin is an agricultural engineer who specialzes in design of facilities to promote reduced stress in animal handling for slaughter. She is good at that. Her “efforts” in other arenas-animal welfare (beyond food animal ag eng scenarios) and genetics come to mind-are bogus entreprenurial undertakings. Good scientists do not overstep their bounds.
It is interesting that her affiliation on the Agenda for this talk is her private slaughter facility consulting business, rather than Colorado state University. I would hope that CSU would not want the name of their program associated with a “summit” where the hedliners are Ike Skankey (rodeo stock contractor), a pair of low-level livestock auctioneers, and a failed NRCHA trainer-it does not bode well for scientific credibility (Gary C.)-does it???
Ugh. I have completely ignored the asshat convention until tonight when I saw your post about Temple Grandin. I’m so sorry she’s getting lumped in with these asshats. As an animal advocate and a special educator (my BS is in Animal Sciences and my masters is in Special Education), I have a great deal of respect for Temple Grandin. I’ve seen her speak several times. While most of her work is with production animals, her methods and recommendations have also been very successful with horses. If you read some of her work, particularly Animals in Translation, you’ll read why she makes the recommendations she does and why they are so effective (comparing the size of the frontal lobe in animals to people with autism, which she herself has). She’s not actually “pro-slaughter.” She’s “pro-humane slaughter.” I hate to think of any animal slaughtered, but IF it’s going to happen, which it is, I’d like to see someone such as Dr. Grandin setting the guidelines. Slaughter of any animal sucks, but we’ll never be able to regulate the real jerkwads who make it a “necessity” in the American equine industry, the BYBs.
I absolutely agree, FMP!
Temple Grandin actually worked with horses before any other animal to the best of my knowledge, though most of her professional career has focused on food animal production and processing. While I find her writing somewhat difficult to deal with at times, she’s done an astounding amount of work for animal welfare and I’m glad she’ll be a part of that conference- nice to have one reasonable head there.
I’ll second the nix on association with animal rights groups… the big TV truck on the FB page is likely a huge waste of time and counterproductive to your cause. The people at the conference expect anti-slaughter advocates to be, well, TV-truck-driving, yelling, screaming, PETA-mold nutjobs- you’re just playing into their hand. Hell, the people running this thing would probably be HAPPY to see a big protest outside because it would reinforce their agenda- “Look, there’s them crazy environmentalist vegan city slickers we told you about. They want to destroy your livelihood! OOO SCARY!!!” How about a counter-conference? IMO, a well-publicized meeting of animal WELFARE experts looking into the CAUSES of horse overpopulation with an eye on solutions at a grassroots level would do a LOT more for horses and the anti-slaughter movement than some disturbing pictures driving around Las Vegas. I haven’t followed the literature that closely but I don’t believe such an event has happened yet (though, I’d love to know about it if it did!
. Just my two cents.
Dey tuk our jubbbbss!!!!
I was disappointed to see Temple Grandin’s name there too. I know she did some studies on slaughterhouses in Canada and somewhere in South America, and gave them a huge fail. She also stated in one interview that she didn’t think horses could be slaughtered assembly-line style without abusing them because of their nature. She could deliver a speech that will not support their agenda.
Much as I like the insight into autism that Temple Grandin has provided, and much as I admire some of her work with creating non-abusive slaughter environments for cattle, I don’t think she is the be-all and end-all for all animal behavior. I’ve literally laughed out loud at some of her “insights” as to cat behavior– because she is so focused on autism and animal behavior as a continuum from/to autism, I think she occasionally misses makes big misses because her thinking is so linear. I believe she might have insight into how to calm horses immediately prior to slaughter, but the issue (to me) is not how to make slaughter kinder, but how to eliminate it through education of horse owners, and reducing incentives for breeding when there is no market for the resulting foals (hello, AQHA?)
Wonderful story! It’s amazing what a little TLC and dedication will do for you. You have people who will drop 150G on a horse just as good (not that I’m scolding people who do that, but $190 vs. 150G? You do the math :p ). I hope they go far!
The pro-slaughter folks can stay home and save some money. They should each write on the bulletin board “DON’T BREED” 5000 times for each unwanted horse they’ve sent to slaughter.
off topic, but here is a link for a registered rescue charity that has been charged for fraud. I think you have posted about them in the past.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/index.ssf?/base/news-3/129143911485960.xml&coll=3
Nick and his chestnut friend are both truly beautiful horses! Nice find!
The man who sold my horse to me said something I will never forget: “Every horse needs groceries and a job to do,” and that applies especially to the horses closest to MY heart, the off-track Thoroughbreds. I LOVE stories like this, where a truly wonderful equine athlete “falls through the cracks” but is caught just in time and turned into a stellar fellow like Alaska Bowtie ;o)
Yay for Alaska Bowtie. Congratulations to him and his owner. Who is Oly who was mentioned in the original post?
Yep, the horse killers are having a conference, Sue Willis, Loos, Cantoor… Can the rest of the slaughter gang Tom Lenz, Butcher, Conrad, the AHC, beef and rodeo be far behind? Can someone send a suicide bomber to blow himself up at that conference?
I hope you’re real proud of that comment. Perhaps you’d like to tell that little joke to the survivors or the families who’s loved ones didn’t come home from the WTC, OkC, London metro, Bali, Iraq, Afghanistan and on and on. How about the families of our servicemen and women who have lost their lives to suicide bombers, or the ones who have to live with the very real possibility of someone “sending a suicide bomber to blow them up”. I’m sure you’d get all sorts of yucks.
Promoting violence against those you don’t agree with is so very, very sad and IT’S NOT A JOKE. I know it may be hard, but please try to put your hysterical, emotionally driven little 13yo AR brain into rational thought mode before hitting the send button, you thoughtless moron.
I cannot believe that you are encouraging a suicide bomber. That is not a joke. Also, it does not matter if you do not like the fact that Sue Willis is pro-slaughter, you cannot threaten a government official (and yes, saying that you wish a suicide bomber would show up at the conference IS threatening).
correction for both of our posts “Sue Wallis” not Willis
I agree…I’ve said it a million times, don’t make threats like that. Even though I’m 99.9% certain it’s just for dramatic effect, it is NOT LEGAL TO THREATEN OTHERS WITH PHYSICAL HARM and it makes you look like you’re as crazy as Sue.
The use of Temple Grandin is a publicity stunt. It is because of the movie that came out recently that made people think, “oh, wow, slaughter isn’t all that bad at all. Look! She cares! I care, too, if I watch this movie!” (then they scarf down 16 McDonald’s cheeseburgers)
Horses are not production animals in the US. If we wanted horse meat on our market legally, we would be doing what Europe is doing. The meat that we are producing in the United States is unfit for human consumption. If the USDA gave a damn, they could stop slaughter in the United States on those grounds. All it would take is an effective marketing campaign and some PR.
If some kid can get most people in a study to vote for banning water through deceptive marketing, the USDA should have no problem getting slaughter banned on the grounds that the meat actually isn’t good for human consumption.
Operating costs alone for the kill buyers could provide humane euthanasia for most of the horses on their trucks.
Cathy, I’ve been reading your blog for years. I rarely post because I primarily post on my local New England chatboards. I am not a troll. I am not some uneducated “asshat”. I usually think your blog is informative, entertaining and a good value. I’ve learned a lot about crooked rescues and bad conformation thanks to you and your work. And for that, I thank you. But after a bad day on the farm, I sat down to read your blog for a break and was fed another ration of “anti-slaughter” rhetoric.
I have one simple question for you: Do you eat meat?
If you don’t eat meat, please disregard the rest of my rant.
If you do eat meat, how do you think those animals met their end? Why should horses meet a nicer end than the pork on your plate? Are chickens, cows, and pigs second-class-animals that don’t deserve a humane death before they become your bacon? Why should horses be spared the horrors of slaughter while we as a nation happily demand low-cost meat regardless of how that meat lived its life or met it’s end.
If you DO eat meat, are “anti-slaughter (for horses), and always will be” but aren’t raising awareness about the plight of other animals who are destined for slaughter, then I say that you are a hypocrite. If you ARE raising awareness and lobbying for change with regards to the humane raising and processing of meat animals, then please accept my humble apologies.
I am a pragmatist. I am PRO HUMANE slaughter of animals, including horses. Horses are no better than the lowliest (mutant Frankenstein Cornish Cross ) chicken destined for a Happy Meal.
And I put my time, money and labor where my mouth is. My husband and I bought a farm and raise & slaughter (or send out to humane slaughter facilities) our own chickens, pigs and beef. I am particularly touchy today because we lost a pig to illness – and I am heartbroken to see an animal, for which I am responsible, get sick on my watch. I don’t want any animal to suffer for me and my needs however my family is unwilling to give up meat as a food source. So we’ve made a commitment to raise our own meat and ensure it’s humane death (which today meant our pig was euthanized).
Starting a farm is unrealistic for most people. But instead of agonizing over poor horses ending up on trucks to Canada or Mexico, you COULD shed light on the plight of the meat you eat prior to it’s arrival on your plate. That story may be beyond the scope of your blog, which is unfortunate as I KNOW you would do an outstanding job educating your readers on the subject, inspiring others to make noise and demand change. In the meantime, please stop preaching about the evils of equine slaughter if you do not extend the same consideration to the animal on your plate.
Ok, rant over. Flame away.
I do not eat meat.
KissThisCop- Slaughter IS illegal in the U.S.
FarmwifeNH-Fugly has been VERY vocal about not being a meat eater.
I myself am a meat eater, most of ours is home grown- beef and lamb. Could I eat horse? No Way! Nor could I eat dog. Do I like slaughter? No. I feel like what we have raised here is given care,attention and compassion- there is no horrifying ride to who knows where to sit in a dirty feed lot nose to tail till it’s time for the knife. What horses are put through on their way to a dinner plate in France is much more horrifying!
Oops- I meant horse slaughter is illegal.
Charlienchoco – Yes, I know horse slaughter is illegal in the US. The pipeline that allows horses to be sold for slaughter is not. My reply was poorly worded.
The foal tax is a great idea. It’s a way to boost state revenue, demand licensing, and discourage back yard breeding. I would certainly pay it.
Do you eat eggs? Milk? Cheese? Ride in a leather saddle? Wear leather shoes? Get the flu shot (uses chicken eggs)? Benefited from modern medical procedures and drugs that may have been tested on animals?
If you can avoid using what a poster called “production animals” and their “products” (that is a truly nauseating term – like they are cars at a Ford factory instead of skin and bones) completely in your life, then I am impressed.
Nope, I’m not a vegan. But you will never convince me that horses should be treated like cows and pigs instead of dogs and cats. In the United States, they are PETS. Period.
Ok. That makes sense and explains your point of view. Now I see why you focus on companion animals and horses and not livestock. It is an interesting discussion though – the hierarchy/classification of animals and our responsibilities to them. Worth a blog – but it’s easier to slam another hoarder and play to your audience. Wish you’d return to your roots: bad conformation. And skip the righteous indignation about people who abuse the animals you elevate to “pet” status. But that’s the beauty of the internet and free speech.
There’s only so much you can discuss one topic and the blog outlasted its original topic. As to any other displeasure with my choices, I will tell you what I tell everyone – start your own blog and talk about what you think is most important. Blogger is free, so is WordPress if you don’t host it yourself!
I’m not Fugly, but I do eat meat.
Here are my issues:
1. Equines are commonly transported long distances to slaughter in unsuitable vehicles. You can put cows in a double decker for six to eight hours…if you do that with horses, you get injured horses. Double deckers are not designed to carry horses, who can stick their hooves out further (to get stuck) and often hit their heads on the ceiling. (And, incidentally, I believe NO animal should be transported any further for slaughter than is absolutely necessary).
2. In order to keep riding horses sound and healthy, they are often given medications that are simply not allowed in meat animals. In addition, the meat of an older riding horse is going to be of poor quality. This is simply not fair on those people who DO wish to consume horse meat. Our bute-ridden castoffs do not belong on anyone’s dinner plate.
3. Mass processing of equines is a lot harder to do in a humane manner. (Although not as hard as ostriches, which have to be slaughtered VERY carefully by specially trained personnel…those things make the most highly strung horse look like a placid old Draft).
4. I firmly believe that we make a ‘deal’ with our riding horses. We are predators, they are prey. We ask them to do work for us…and in return we feed them, call the vet when they need it, keep their hooves and teeth in good condition, maybe throw a blanket on them when they get cold and we DON’T EAT THEM. They understand that we are predators who CHOOSE not to eat them. It may sound like metaphysics, but I personally will not eat horse meat because I feel it is breaching a sacred trust.
Truth is, there IS a demand for horse meat. It should be met by animals that are raised and bred as meat animals and treated as such…and slaughter should take place as close to the farm gate as possible, ideally on the same property, in a manner that is NOT mass processing. I have no ethical objection to *other people* eating horse meat…after all, I eat beef, and there are Hindus who would take issue with that. But it should come from ‘meat horses’.
Jennifer R, your post just about sums up exactly how I feel about horse slaughter too.
My biggest issue (besides the way the horses are transported and handled) is the “trust” issue.
FarmwifeNH…Im sorry, but to take an animal that has been taught from birth to trust and work in service to humans and then put it through the horrors of slaughter is just plain wrong. Using your logic (of one animal being no more important than another) then you should have no problem with all the unwanted dogs and cats in this country being slaughtered instead of humanely euthed and sending the meat oversees to Asia where some people eat them. Think of all the money that could be made. Heck, all the underfunded, understaffed country pounds could probably actually make a profit instead of scrounging for operating funds. But we all know hell would freeze over first because it would be just plain WRONG and it will never happen. We dont eat out companion animals in this country…thats the difference between cats, dogs, horses and meat animals.
Personally, I wish nobody would choose to eat horse. But I would have much less of a problem with such if the only horses slaughtered were those raised specifically for meat as long as humane farming, handling and processing laws could be implemented and enforced. The issues of betrayal and trust would then be totally moot.
And yes, I do eat meat. As much as I wish I didnt (for health reasons) I will rarely pass up a good steak.
But I have always been accutely aware of how my steak got on my plate and I have patronized humane local farmers whenever possible. That was very easy when I lived in CT…not so easy in AZ. I also buy my eggs from a local farmer whos chickens live better than alot of people. And some things, like veal and pate are totally off limits.
It makes no difference to the animal if it was bred for meat or companionship. Pain and fear are the same for the animal bred for meat. If anything, the companion horse at least has a few good years of being treated with kindness and is not AS terrified about being in strange surroundings with strange people.
I agree with you 100% Jennifer! I eat meat and while I’m not in agreement with the slaughter techniques of other animals unless a horse is a “meat horse” then I don’t think they should be slaughtered. Most of these horses have had someone love them and care for them in their lives. They’ve developed bonds with humans. If they were meat animals they would be minimally handled and most of the time a bond wouldn’t be there. We never developed bonds with animals we were going to send to slaughter because it makes it hard for not only the human but the animal too.
I pulled a feedlot horse who is 16 years old a few months ago. He was a lesson horse and then someone’s personal trail horse. His whole life has been dedicated to serving humans. And the thanks he got was being shipped to a feedlot? There is a trust there that should NEVER be broken. He was so depressed when he first came home I was worried for him. But with attention and time he’s become playful and loving. How anyone was able to look him in the eye and put him into that situation is beyond me.
I eat meat. I eat ,as much as possible, my own meat, we have pigs and intend to go on to a cow and some chickens, soon, we have the land for them. I agree completely that horses are no different from any other animal, and that the laws that already exist to ensure they are humanely treated are just not being upheld. They also need a lot more laws in place, primarily the one to close ALL borders to animals being transported alive for food purposes,there is no need for animals to be trucked huge distances. If that meant the reopening of closely watched and carefully run slaughter houses in the states I could live with it, I felt they were closed too quickly and without due thought, but I also feel that, now they are closed, reopening them would be a step backwards. The slaughter houses that were closed were the ones for human consumption, am I right? So it is still legal to use a slaughter house for destruction for other purposes? So it was purely and simply greed, once agian, that was driving them?
Of course horses should be treated with respect and due care, when they are slaughtered, BUT so should cows and pigs, goats, sheep and chickens. We raise and kill these animals because we like eating meat, because, for right or wrong, it has become part of our culture. We do not have a god given right to do this, and we have a HUGE responsibility to the animals that we eat. If more people remembered this the conditions would get better. As the people that are at the ground floor of the problem do not care and are just greedy nasty people, there will have to be more people that do care, in charge, to make sure that these atrocious things we see happening, stop.
On YouTube, somewhere, is a clip of a horse slaughterhouse somewhere in Devon (UK) not all that far from me. Horse after horse goes though, and there is one man standing there, shooting them with, of all things, a shotgun. Not my weapon of choice, but he knows what he is doing, is actually standing on the house floor, with the animal, and he fells each and every horse with one shot. At one point he waits, and rubs the horse’s forehead to calm it so he can get a good shot. Now, just how he does his job I do not know BUT here is a man who can go home at night knowing that no animal has been scared or harmed on his watch. It was put up as an example of “that awful horse slaughter” but, honestly, if every horse slaughterhouse were as good as his, no-one would have any problems with horse slaughter!
I will see if I can find a link, but if anyone has it, please, post it for all to see. Sometimes, awful though it is, it is done right.
I don’t eat meat, but I agree with you.
FarmwifeNH I completely agree with you. I think the husbandry of how ANY livestock that we eat is a sham in this country. I am not going to tell people they can’t eat horses any more than I will tell them they can’t eat beef, pork or chicken. Heck, people eat goats, lamb and possum for heavens sake. It just isn’t my place to tell them WHAT they can and cannot eat.
Now for myself, I believe that the activists put the cart before the horse in many ways by shutting down the plants FIRST. The transport of horses is what absolutey 100% boils my blood. Then, the way they are housed and killed. I am not pro-slaughter by any means but the way this whole thing has been done has, IMO, made things worse in the shortrun. I am actively working to make a difference in the longrun but it is difficult because the two sides are so far apart and I tend to be a person who wants to avoid the alienation of one group as it does nothing to facilitate any type of cooperation. Feel free to flame away at me, I stand by my opinions and they are much more complex than what I can type here. I would welcome a personal discussion with anyone who wants one, we all need to work together to make that difference.
Off my soapbox now…
OK, many of you have first hand knowledge here, which I don’t pretend to have, but I believe the plants were closed because federal inspection of horse slaughter facilities were de-funded by Congress, not by “activists”. It’s my understanding that the foreign owners of the plants attempted to convince the USDA that they should be allowed to inspect their own facilities, but failed, partially because of documentation of horrific conditions in the plants provided by that radical animal rights organization, the USDA.
That is correct.
As an English native I’m still, after over a decade here, amazed how many Americans think eating sheep is so strange. Where I grew up, lamb or pork were the standard red meats. Beef was a special occasion luxury. That’s changed quite a bit now, but its still cultural in England to eat lamb…whilst in America its a specialty meat I find in the deli case with very limited cuts. Used to be I couldn’t get it at all.
Fact is, what animals are eaten does vary somewhat by culture. Chihuahuas were originally bred as meat animals. The Chinese eat both dogs and cats. Goat meat is rarely consumed in the west, but commonly in the eastern Mediterranean and middle east. I’ve traveled in Greece and you can’t GET beef there. You can get (very expensive) veal as a major delicacy in more expensive restaurants. Otherwise, its lamb, kid, rarely pork. And sometimes they don’t tell you whether its lamb or kid. Cow’s milk cheese is also expensive there…because there’s so little grazing land you can put cattle on in the country what there is is used for dairy. As a delicacy. Goat’s and sheep’s cheese, so expensive here, are what everyone eats. What poor people eat.
I think a lot of Americans could really use to look a little more at the rest of the world and just understand that not everyone does things quite the same way.
FarmwifeNH said “Why should horses meet a nicer end than the pork on your plate?”
My question is, why do horses not deserve as good an end as pork or beef? I know that not all slaughterhouses are as humane as they should be, but, the pork and beef on my plate met a humane end. If you don’t believe it, you can go watch, they have nothing to hide. I know people who have watched.
In addition, I would never eat any meat that contains the drugs given to racehorses. Face it, the horse meat in this country is not fit for consumption. That fact should be made public to the consumers in Europe and Japan.
Perhaps the processing facility was humane. How about the raising of the pork or beef? Were they raised in CAFOs? Were the beef fed (taxpayer subsidized thanks to the atrocious US Farm Bill) corn instead of grass/hay which is what beef are supposed to eat? Are the eggs you eat from chickens fed an omnivores diet or have they been forced to become vegetarians. I could go on. The point I was making is the vast majority of Americans, if not every last one of us, eat/use/benefit from animals that live and die in less humane ways than the vast majority of horses live and die (same goes for cats, dogs and any other animals we choose to exclude from the food chain).
OT, but you have to see this! Kool Aid and Sheople! http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7936991/
Per the Quarter Horse News, speakers at the Summit Of The Horses include:
John Falen – Public Lands Council
Steve Torbit – National Wildlife Federation
Larry Johnson – Nevada Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife and former member of BLM Wild Horse & Burro Advisory Committee
Arlen Washines – Northwest Tribal Horse Coalition
Tim Amlaw – American Humane
Glenda Davis – Navajo Nation Veterinary Program
Frank Bowman – Horsemen’s Council of Illinois
Dennis Foster – Masters of Fox Hounds Assn.
Mindy Patterson – Alliance for Truth, campaign to defeat HSUS Missouri Prop B
Bill desBarre – Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada
Jennifer Wood – Humane Handling & Assessment Tool for Canadian Horse Processing
David Solum – Solum Brothers, breeders, Missouri
Ted Robinson – Reined cow horse trainer
Ike Sankey – Sankey Pro Rodeo, Professional Rodeo Cowboys Assn. stock contractor
Johnny Zamrzla – California Horse Council
Bob Loomis – Reining breeder and trainer
Bill & Jann Parker – Billings Livestock Horse Sale
Patti Colbert – Mustang Heritage Foundation
Joey Astling – USDA/APHIS Horse Slaughter Transport Program
Rob Leach – Australian horse trainer
I see a few familiar names there, including some vintage pro-slaughter people from the Illinois and Texas slaughter plant days. Also note, trainer Ted Robinson and breeder Bob Loomis.
For those that didn’t know, Temple Grandin was always the go-to gal whenever the pro-slaughter people needed a talking head to assure the American public how humane horse slaughter was.
So, just to re-iterate, the pro-slaughter fucks, famous and not so well known, are all okay with this. They always were. This isn’t a position they’ve suddenly adopted because the horse salguhter magically became humane. It never was. It’s something to think about when you consider which idols you choose to worship in the horse world. Fortunately, lists like those provided by the Quarter Horse News makes it that much easier to spot the wolves in sheep’s clothing moving among the rest of us.
Unfortunatly, when someone presents true honest issues and facts like you mentioned they get ignored by the American public because Americans sometimes wear rose colored glasses. People think what they see here is too horrible to be true. Not realizing that it is truely that horrible makes them turn deaf ears. The whole issue saddens me. Its easy for people to just ignore the issues that dont touch their lives. We live in a country of Sheep.
Just to reiterate, I am NOT okay with this and I am not pro-slaughter. These are the things that I want to see changed. I would LOVE it if the slaughter of horses was an issue that would just go away but I just don’t see it.
I think this is the original blog….
http://fuglyblog.com/?p=1164
He looks like a well behaved boy and a pleasure to ride!! Congrats to him and his owners on such an awesome find!!
Yay for Nick! He’s looking REALLY happy on the XC courses! Man, a Slew grandson for $190… and a black one at that, superb! LOL, he still has the OTTB “hop” in the hinds, but he has a gorgeous head, and it seems to have some brains in it!
And Carefree, what a cutie! She is someone’s forever heart horse, I bet. I could imagine riding her on a nice Cali trail….
So are these slaughter folks maybe getting together to get their stories straight on horses such as Munition? Could you imagine if they were all networked and able to scam more people? Arg!!!
This is AWESOME…
Don’t drink the Kool-ade sheeples… This must have been made with Chri$ty in mind….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V75DZjdXZnE
http://www.willowtreephotos.webs.com
A Barrel Horse Learns to Jump
OMG!!!! Too funny, and I almost didnt get it until I stopped and was its a joke
Thanks, really needed that one today!
He looks very happy with his new job, too! I was not the one who took my mare off the meat line at an auction, but I’m glad someone made the attempt for her.
Can you refresh my memory – do we know how Alaskan Bowtie ended up at the auction? Where he came from and who dumped him there?
He looks FABULOUS in his videos.
The trainer lied to his owner and promised he had someone who would give him a good home…the usual.
Sorry, I did post this yesterday on the last blog post, but am afraid it won’t get noticed at all.
There is a five year old blind mare that needs a hand-up. She is free to a good home with contract and email updates. She’s absolutely sweet. She’s in the Perth / Ottawa area. Anyone interested in this girl, please email me at cheriecalgary[at]hotmail[dot]com. I will be taking care of her until she finds a good home (and getting her farrier and groceries because they are needed).
First photo:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7857829&l=3ba4aaa35c&id=625010481
No I cannot condone that sort of talk, and you might actually get the blog into trouble saying it….in the UK you could well be expecting a knock on your door around now! Please do not make a joke of such a thing, we have lost far too many people that way.
I still have NO idea why the government does not just enforce the laws they already have in place, demand and good, humanitarian, respectful end for ALL animals killed for food.
All the lowlife KBs would get out of the business so fast they would fall over themselves, if they had some little jobsworth (and lord knows there are enough of them in every government building, in every land in the world!) sitting at his shoulder telling him what he can and cannot do!!
Did you pull the offensive post?
I wrote an anti-slaughter essay for my AP Comp class, and the teacher talked to me after handing it back and told me that she had never realised there was such a strong case for banning horse slaughter instead of that “horsies are sooooo cute.” It is easier to convince people when you show the facts like how horrible those towns were that held horse slaughter plants. I’d post the essay here but it is 5 pages.
I’d love to see it! Could you email it to me? cheriecalgary(at)hotmail(dot)com if you’re so inclined.
If not, I totally understand!!
Maybe post a link?
http://tuckerforever.blogspot.com/
What a beautiful boy-happy to hear he was saved!
A bit O/T but not…..although a horse of my own has been out of my reach for quite some time I never stopped loving them (of course) and often browsed rescue sites reading the happy stories, and wishing I could be one of those lucky adopters. Spent a lot of horseless years riding/showing other people’s problem horses…but it sort of sucked develping a bond with a horse time and time again only to have it sold out from under me everytime (which pleased the owners but not me LOL) once it got going well.
BUT I have decided to put that all aside, maybe I’ll never be able to have another horse of my own, and am starting to volunteer at a local rescue, putting miles on greenies and reschooling the abused guys. I urge others with some skill to do the same. We can sit and wish we had lots of money and a farm/horse of our own…..or we can get out there and support the ones who do have the means to take these guys and give them a new future.
Fugly you helped me to make this decision, I thank you!
THANK YOU…because training is one of the MOST expensive things a rescue has to pay for.
I would love to know WHY supporting horse slaughter makes a person an asshat? The reality of the situation is that the market will always be saturated with horses that have little value and will be ill suited to most disciplines. There unfortunatly will never be a way to stop the bad breeders from pumping out horses that should never of been created. So i ask , whats the solution? In an ideal world the obvious would be that people educate themselves and only breed quality horses. We do not live in that world and that world will never exist. So since the USA has more horses that need homes then homes looking for horses , whats the best option? Realistically , what is the best option? I honestly only see making the plants more equine “friendly” the only feasible option.
O and btw , I don’t breed horses or any other animal for that matter (ok you caught me , I let my chickens hatch out a clutch a year)
“The reality of the situation is that the market will always be saturated with horses that have little value and will be ill suited to most disciplines. There unfortunatly will never be a way to stop the bad breeders from pumping out horses that should never of been created. ”
Bullshit. I simply don’t accept that, period. There are ways. Let’s start with a per foal TAX.
I believe the idea of taxing every foal born would be contrary to the rah-rah hysterics of the current political movement, where the folksy-folks see a commie behind every bush. Nossir, littering the landscape with animals is their God-given right, and ain’t no city folk gov’mint gonna tell ‘em how to manage their ‘stock, let alone tax ‘em for it, damned Communists.
Believe it or not, certain people still fight for “their right” to have puppy mills and fight pit bulls. If you want to see people go all state’s rights/anti-Fed/secessionist/neo-militia on your ass, go ahead and propose a foal tax.
Do you really think a lot of those people aren’t already on my ass? ROTFL. Remember the dude from East TX whose wife just got outta prison and was gonna come kick my ass?
I’m not skairt. I’ll be the first one to campaign for the foal tax. We can use the proceeds to fund gelding and euthanasia clinics.
God damnit!! Where is the “like” button!?!?!?!?
A foal tax is an interesting idea… I have never heard of that before. I think a foal tax combined with low cost gelding opportunities could work wonders on the excessive amounts of foaling that goes on in this country. I wonder who would manage that type of program? I thought I heard once that dog breeders have to pay a lot for licensing, maybe we could at least start by having people breeding horses become licensed.
I think it would be locally managed, exactly like dog licensing. Make it a horse license that you have to pay for on each foal. Local municipalities would be all over it the way they’re all over traffic tickets. A $50 or $100 licensing fee per foal is nothing to the breeder of a $5K foal but it would GREATLY discourage the breeding of a $200 foal.
Sure, make a “foal” tax…course, how would you enforce it?!?!? I have to pay “property taxes” on my horses and I do but who is to say I have horses?!?!? Especially when I live in one county and the horses are in another?!?!? Yes, I am honest but there are those people who aren’t…kind of like people in towns that want you to license cats. If you have an indoor cat….who’s going to know it’s not licensed?
Well, sure, you can lock your horse in the barn FOREVER and get away with it but most people do not do that.
I’ve seen animal control very vigorously enforce dog licensing. Hey, it’s a money maker. They have every reason to go after it!
AC had been going door to door in my town asking to see dog licenses–but there was so much outcry they stopped.
Well, the horses that are in another county are either on your (or someone else’s) private land, or boarded, right? If a boarding stable knows they will get busted for having non-licenced animals on their property, they are going to demand to see your licence when you bring the horse there (just like how the vet wants to see shots+ if you’re going to board your dog). If they’re a shitty facility that doesn’t care you’d better believe they’re going to give up as much info about you as they have as soon as the AC comes knocking and starts the process of getting them in trouble.
If they’re on private property AC has access to the legal owners of land. If you lease, they can find you through the lease. If you own, there’s the catch. And even if it’s a friend’s land that would be a pretty good friend who will pay your big-time fees for not registering.
They can drive around and see if a property has horses, then check if that property has any registrations in a database. See how many (and maybe basics on age and color of the horses) and if something doesn’t match up that’s when they can investigate further. But a lot of the times it would be pretty damn obvious, and pretty easy to go after people.
And that’s part of the design. The initial fee is large enough to be a deterrent to owning/creating something you really don’t need to own or create, but it’s not punitive. But the fees for skipping out on it? Much larger. It’s in AC’s best interest to go after them (or Sheriff’s depts if the area doesn’t have a full AC) – not only do they get to make a bunch of money, if someone skipped out on a relatively simple and basic animal care law (here you can mail in your dog registration, it is really, ridiculously easy), they may not be taking very good care of their animals, and it can alert them to cases before they get completely out of control.
It’s also (usually) a lot harder to hide a horse! A lot of people get away with not registering their dogs (and especially cats and small exotics) because they can be kept indoors/out of sight.
You can drive around and enforce the horse licences (at least to the point of ‘does this property have ANY licences), even the Sheriff’s Departments will lap that up.
You can “out” the dogs just by knocking on the door and listening! It’s been done. As for the horses, harder – but maybe a big sniff of the air? (manure pile) Or play a very loud recording of horses neighing , and listening for replies ?(like wolf howling events) And so on.
Foal tax – yes, yes, yes.
A foal tax would not even work here in the UK so it isn’t going to work in the US. Just like most of the “anti puppy mill” laws that have been suggested, it would affect the honest law abiding people who register and look after their horses, and have NO effect on people like, (here in the UK, for example) Gypsies, who don’t want / need to register any stock so they just do not get horse passports and certainly would not pay a horse tax!
I agree that something has to be done about over breeding, but taxing the already beleaguered honest few is not the way to do it.
I would like to see , in the US, some sort of cooperation between states to get their animal control people in line with one another, and up to scratch.
I would like to see the borders closed (and this should be in place in Europe, as well,) to any live animal bound for slaughter. They should be slaughtered in their country of origin, there is NO excuse in this day of refrigerated trucks, for any animal intended for slaughter, to travel any further than it has to. This would mean more money for the home slaughter houses, so I cannot see they would object. Their part in this would be to clean up their acts and start actually towing the line and making their facilities animal friendly, clean and efficient.
Tax is not the way to go, simply because EVERYONE would be against yet another tax.
If there was a foal tax, would that encourage anyone with a less than marketable foal to just kill it rather than to pay a tax on it? Say I am a big breeder with 300 foals each year. Of that group, there might be 20 top ones, 100 good ones, and the rest just so-so. Would the breeder be ahead to just kill the bottom 1/3 to save the tax, and maybe deduct them as a business loss instead? People do weirder things. A friend was give a purebred Morgan foal. If was born at a big Morgan farm, but one leg turned out a little. The breeder didn’t want a less than perfect foal so they dropped it off at the local vet school doorstep AS A NEW BORN with a note that since it was crooked legged, the school could have it for “research”. The school didn’t want it, so it was give to my friend. The foal is now a full grown, well loved riding horse. What is trash to one man is treasure to another.
Well at this point there is absolutely nothing illegal about killing your own horse in an acceptable manner (euth or gunshot). Honestly, I think it’s less cruel to shoot foals in the head at home than send mature horses to slaughter. Not saying I like EITHER, just saying on the grand scale of evil…it’s less cruel. There is less suffering involved.
I agree. Sad, but more humane than slaughter, and if the foals have some deformity, it’s probably best to shoot them young before they are in pain.
I have to say, I have seen horses in rescue that SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT. No question. Do you guys remember that really deformed foal that some stupid faux rescue was keeping alive to hobble around and get donations?
ROTFL – I’m a true blue Democrat but a Foal Tax? We can’t even sort out funding our infrastructure and you want to tax to help horses? New Hampshire tried this in 2009. The idea behind the tax was nice but in reality, it was absurd. Of course we are the Live Free or Die state but even our neighbor to the south, Massachusetts, doesn’t go that far and they are the only state in the union to regulate (test and license) riding instructors.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=60a41dc0-5754-4810-a0c9-c1d694aec415&headline=The+horse+tax%3A+A+lesson+in+buffoonery
The Union Leader is a ridiculous Republican rag but I was there at the State House along with hundreds of horse owners and no one, red or blue, wanted a tax.
Would you send your dog to an animal broker to be sold for meat, knowing that it would not only be eaten, but mentally and physically stressed by being packed into crates with tens of other dogs of all sexes and ages, shipped without food or water and then slaughtered? If not, why not? Would you advocate that we sell dogs and cats in municipal pounds instead of humanely euthanizing them? What is the difference between sending your horse to a killer and all the resultant process that goes along with slaughter; because you can’t separate the final act from the whole process. I cannot understand why anyone would send a horse to slaughter. I CAN understand and support humane euthanasia. You yourself are very aware of the difference between meat animals raised on the farm and killed at home, which can be done in a very humane way. The slaughter system for horses is very different.
It sounds like you know very well what the difference is between slaughter and humane euthanasia, since it sounds like you take care to kill your meat animals quickly, without fear and as painlessly as possible. Like I said, that doesn’t happen in horse slaughter: it’s not quick, it is not without fear and it is not painless.
All good points, Laciefan, and I will add: there are a lot of (misnamed, obviously) “shelters” that sell dogs and cats for “research” (e.g., torture and murder that’s legalized). I believe the most recent news story on this horrific practice was in Utah.
No doubt some of the pro-slaughter types who post here also approve of the way Far Easterners treat their dogs. Doubt me? Go google “Asian dog markets” and take a look at what they do to LIVE dogs. Hang them on display by a hook through the neck – while still alive, among other things. Same thing as slaughterhouses do to horses – more frequently than not. Hang them upside down and start to disembowel while they are still alive and conscious.
Basically, people either consider animals as sentient beings capable of feeling emotions and pain, or they are late for breakfast with the devil and it is my fervent hope that sooner or later they’ll get there.
I always bring up asian dog and cat markets. Go look at that. Are you OK with that?
Those dog markets are just awful. I went to Korea back in the mid-80s, and saw the cages of them in the black markets. I cried for days. My mom lived there for about 3 years and swears they “tenderize ” them before killing them. I’d like to think she was exaggerating, because that’s a disturbing thought.
I don’t eat meat. I guess I’m OK with other poeple eating animals–but I’m not OK with those animals living in hell and then being tortured to death, all so a person can eat something that isn’t really necessary to survive (at least not in many places nowadays). Haven’t all sorts of studies been done about how it’s cheaper and more environmentally friendly to eat a vegetarian diet? Easy for me to say, I realize, because I can’t stand the taste and texture of meat.
Do people seriously eat cats? I thought that was just a joke. Guess it’s not. I suppose if you’re starving to death…
Yes, people do. I had somebody offer to get me some cougar meat once…
Note, of course, that people also eat rabbits and guinea pigs. I’ll confess, at risk of flaming, to rather liking rabbit…but, of course, the rabbit I’ve stewed came from rabbit farms, raised for meat and a different breed from pet buns. But then, I also knew somebody who had a pet pig…now that was cute enough to almost put me off of bacon for life.
During the last Olympics, the Chinese government actually banned cat and dog from the menu in Beijing restaurants because they didn’t want western tourists ordering it by mistake and then raising a massive brouhahaha.
(Note: I don’t think its right to eat somebody’s PET rabbit…or pig…or whatever any more than I would want somebody eating my favorite horse).
THAT is some of the worst stuff on the planet. It’s even worse than the baby-seal-bashing.
Me too. I’ve always said there would be an uproar if we were “slaughtering” dogs and cats for meat and sending it overseas.
Usually the response I get is “we are slaughtering dogs and cats in the shelters every day!”… so then I have to respond to THAT (they’re not slaughtered, they’re euthanized, blah blah blah). Sometimes it LITERALLY is like banging your head against a brick wall with these people.
I disagree. People have been educated to spay and neuter animals, not nearly enough, but it’s not like 20 years ago, where every weekend during the “season” you could find someone giving away a litter of kittens or puppies at the local market. People can be educated that there is no market for grade or crossbred horses, unless they are very well trained for a discipline. That there’s no market for a colored foal just because it’s colored etc. I think this blog has done a tremendous job, and it’s just the beginning.
I also think that, like encouraging the adoption of pound dogs or cats, more people should be encouraged to adopt rescue horses. When I’m in a position to own a horse again, I will hope to find an older, gentle, gaited horse that I can adopt. I would not have thought of that before I began reading this blog.
Educate, educate, educate….. and let people know it’s not socially acceptable to abandon or “dump” a horse at auction, and that the equestrian community will look down on you for doing so.
I don’t know about this. I think the people that are going to “get” the concept of a crap market have gotten it and the people who won’t cause they don’t want to be told what to do won’t ever get it. It’s not like they just need a little help with the cost of spaying their horse/ cat/ dog- you can offer free spay/ nueter clinics and they won’t show up because its too much work or they just don’t want to.
I also think that while I of course support rescue of dogs, I don’t like the whole thought process of pure bred dogs are somehow wrong and evil. You penalize breeders who breed great examples of their breed just as much as you do the puppy mills. Those rescue dogs came from somewhere, and most of the time they aren’t from high class breeders. They are someone’s backyard oops because they never felt like spaying their female dog.
I also think the horse market works differently than the dog market.
“Can someone send a suicide bomber to blow himself up at that conference?”
WHOA! I mean… wow! Are you fucking kidding me? Because if so, this is not funny or even mildly humorous or even appropriate in any way, PERIOD. I find it amazing when people who are fighting for lives make statements that involve the taking of life. Good lord people, let’s get a grip here. Yes, slaughter is inhumane and cruel, but to suggest the taking of any life in response is… my lord, words fail me… WRONG.
Use a brain cell or two here… because this statement can be construed as INCITING TERRORISM for crying out loud.
Cathy, I can’t believe you allowed this to be posted.
WOW.
I rarely censor here but of course my one exception to revealing my sources would be that I will hand your ass over on a silver platter if you do something illegal. I have your IP address if you post here, and I can find you.
And we love this blog!
So much good is done with the info seen on here, and so much to continually learn and think about.
What a gorgeous horse Nick (Alaska Bowtie) is! Congrats to those who saved him!
Temple Grandin supports slaughter. There is NO SUCH THING as “humane slaughter.” There IS humane euthanasia. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HUMANE SLAUGHTER.
This is a good time to remind people that some of the ammunition for pro-slaughter is coming from vets. Yup. AAEP supports it completely. Ask your vet you might be dismayed at the answer.
There is a group of vets in the Pacific NW calling themselves “Sound Equine Options.” Although they DO put on the occasional low-cost euthanasia clinic (though “qualifying” for it is daunting, I hear from several sources) when they launched their website some two years ago all of the links and articles were PRO. You might want to read their website right now, one of the articles they feature was recently printed by the JAVMA. Seems UC Davis had one of its vet students to a survey to find out about the so-called “unwanted” horse situation. What did they find? Oh, about the usual and publishing it just adds grist to the pro-slaughter mill.
Just like you can’t believe all rescues are for real it seems you can’t even take veterinarians for granted that just because they chose a profession where they are supposed to be helping horses and not harming or advocating harming them, doesn’t mean they are walking the talk. In the case of AAEP and Sound Equine Options, one word applies: FAIL.
You’ve got it all wrong. Yeah, every one assumes that if you love animals, you’ll want to be a vet, but that is so wrong. I’m applying to vet school. Almost every school requires a “are you comfortable with terminal surgeries,” or “can you do food animal medicine” essay. Most schools require terminal surgeries on purpose bred animals (ie, a breeder breeds and sells dogs and cats to vet schools for the purpose of anesthetizing them, practicing surgery on them, and then euthanizing them instead of waking them up). Every school requires you to perform surgery on cows sans-anesthesia or pain meds. Every male cow that is slaughtered for meat has had it’s testicles removed without any anesthesia or pain meds.
In most interviews, you will be asked why you want to be a vet. If you say because you love animals, that is the quickest way to NOT get accepted.
I was interested in the post about how only people who don’t eat meat are allowed to be upset by horse slaughter. I don’t eat meat, and I spend enough time educating people about how badly the majority of livestock animals are treated that I have been banned from sharing my opinion at the dinner table, so maybe I qualify as not-a-hypocrite according to the earlier criteria. This is an anti-horse slaughter site that offers simple solutions that could help lower the number of horses produced in the US- so of course the focus is going to be on ending horse slaughter, not a general focus on all livestock. It is possible that many of the people on this site also advocate more humane livestock keeping and slaughtering, but voice this in a different forum.
People focus on what they are most passionate about, and that is how they make a difference. It’s no different than choosing to spend your time raising funds for breast cancer research- this doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t care about other types of cancer, you just focus on what is most personally important to you. Frankly, there is no logical reason why someone on this site who is anti-slaughter would be a hypocrite because they eat meat (unless they are eating horse meat, then I would be baffled too).
Lucky, I had a response written yesterday, and even mentioned the cancer thing… then deleted it. I hadn’t written it out so it was really understandable, and I have a lot on my mind right now so didn’t bother fixing or posting.
Thank you for posting “for me”. With my exact arguments. Only more logically written.
I do know I wrote “if I donate to breast cancer research, that doesn’t mean I don’t care about colon cancer”.
This tired argument about eating meat has been thrown around at every single person who has every spoken out about humane treatment of animals. Whether it’s about bestiality, horse slaughter, whatever. It’s always “oh, you eat meat? well, you’re a hypocrite”. It’s like saying it’s ok to beat a person to near death, as long as you don’t kill them – because you know, murder is wrong. But it’s ok to beat them? No. As my parents would say “two wrongs don’t make a right”.
(Of course my smartass response to them was always “yeah, but three lefts make a right”.)
OT, but if anyone would know, Fugly would. This was posted on facebook this morning:
“Phantom Meadow Equine, A Nonprofit Corporation
We are no longer fund-raising for Denim – she is no longer being offered for sale from the feedlot due to a bucking issue. All money donated towards her will go to ‘Banner’ who has a home offer. Sad for Denim.”
My question is,, since when does the killbuyer give a damn what he sells you? They said this horse was at, forgive me but not sure how it’s spelled,, Eumclaw?
Secondly, I really hate the “Why not slaughter horses, we slaughter cows?” Argument. Trust me, if we were killing dogs and shipping the meat overseas, there would be a huge uproar.We don’t eat them, but other countries do. With horses, it’s the same thing.
My two cents
Mom needs advice. Besides herself,
Once upon a time, there was a young girl who worked very hard with a green pony. She helped break him and get him ready for showing. She loved this little guy, rain, shine, sleet and snow she worked with him. she did not falter. She was GIVEN an opportunity to put show mileage on him for the owner,(Please, Don’t give an offer just to take it away). She worked very hard for this barn owner and pony. She got through about ten very cold WINTER shows with him. From 10 in the morning till about 8 at night. He came such a long way with her and she did the best she could. One day, the mommy was worried what to do with this little girl as summer was approaching. She could not stay home alone, and the barn was way too far away to get to. So they had to find something to do with the young lady. They tried to explain that it was only for the summer and would be back in the fall. Well, they got mad at the mommy for taking the girl away and broke up with them though a text message. Now comes time for the final reward! This little girl made 6th place with this pony and was so proud!! Ready to go to the ceremony when she finds out that this owner and I’m sure trainer decided to take it away from her and make another girl the rider. This other girl didn’t work or earn this. I understand that this pony belongs to the owner and not the girl. But, how can people be so heartless and cruel? Be an adult! Your mad at the mommy, take it out on her. NOT the young girl! This young lady is so much more than you EVER could be. As a Mom I feel like I threw my girl under a bus because I trusted these women and NEVER thought this would happen. It’s people like you that give horse people a bad name. Someday, someone will hurt someone you love and you’ll feel helpless and it will kill you inside cause there is nothing you can do to make their pain go away. When it dose. Think of me!! You should be ashamed of yourself and for teaching this other girl to take credit for something they did NOT earn. I can’t believe you can sleep at night and look at yourself in the mirror. God give me the strength to forgive!!!
Silly me, I just “assumed” that if a pregnant mare was shipped to slaughter than she’d be snagegd out of the line up and sent to a farm to foal first. Who in their right mind could cut open a pregnant mare and let her foal “fall out onto the killing room floor” or throw out a foal in the trash with a still beating heart? I know you’d have to be pretty hard hearted to kill any horse, but to snuff out the life of an unborn foal is really cold. If I was close enough to the slaughter houses I’d take every one of those unwanted foals and raise them till I could rehome them!
Yes, that was a completely silly thing for you to think. Slaughter is the business of meat. Did you really think they would feed and care for a mare until she foaled and THEN slaughter her? Then pay to train the babies and give them away as christmas presents to needy children?
And OF COURSE you would care for all those babies…..IF. There is always the IF that is the reason you aren’t/won’t/don’t.
I’m sorry ponykins, but your asinine post really got under my skin.
Me too. You’d take hundreds of foals a year?
It is pretty disgusting when you get those doses of reality that are so awful they seem unbelievable.
I am so very tired of the “do you eat meat” rationale when it comes to horse slaughter. Horses are not cows, sheep, hogs, nor chicken or geese. I urge people who use this argument to go and raise some meat animals along side your horses then put them all on level playing fields, sorry it doesn’t fly. They are not the same, and yes I have raised cows, goats, hens & sheep. When I see two sheep doing a musical pas de duex, then my mind will change. Horses are our companions, they have led us into battle, helped engineers develop machinery, danced for kings & queens, carried heads of state, have been reverred by humans since the beginning of time. They have shared our homes, our hearts, and our emotions. They are the center of millions of pieces of literature. Are cows? No… There are too many of them, certainly, our fault, 100%, no doubt about it, but in my meat loving mind, they are not meat animals, they are companion animals like dogs – for all I care, eat all the cats you want. It is sad that Temple will be at that summit, but she is a pragmatist and maybe she has some insight here. I would almost rather have a legal slaughterhouse here than have them going to Mexico for a nice spinal slice.
It still remains that ALL animals deserve humane treatment. Just because we, here, are emotionally invested in horses does not mean that other people see it that way. We need to have an argument for humane slaughter that is not based on emotion, otherwise we will not be taken seriously. And, anyway, at the end of the day, how is it OK to torture a cow but not OK to torture a horse??
I do not giver a fig for the thousands of years we have worshipped the horse and neither, let me make this quite plain, does the horse!
Horses have NO idea that we think highly of them, they only know whether they are happy. sad, hungry or well fed and, in the case of entire males, if they are getting their ends away often enough. That is ALL they care about.
You can get as emotional as you like about your horses, and lord knows, I do, when you are talking to other horse mad morons….ah, people who love horses (!) but you need to keep your emotions under control when you are talking slaughter issues, as emotion has no place here, only economics.
We do not need horse slaughter as a means of enabling people who just dump their unwanted surplus on kill buyers, no, of course not, but a rendering plant, where unwanted horses can be turned, at NO profit for the seller, into useful fuel oil, that makes sense to me, so long as it is carefully policed. It also makes sense to me that the same policing should be available to cows, sheep, pigs etc.
And they are still used in police work, by the RCMP, search and rescue, etc.
As I said earlier, that’s a tired old argument of “do you eat meat?’
I don’t tend to be as emotional about the issue. I think it is fine for a horse to be killed for meat. I feel strongly about the WAY a horse is killed. When its dead, its dead. I dont think its looking down from horsey heaven, wringing its hooves going: “Oh my GOD! Do you see what they’re DOING???” People were eating horses as a viable meat option not very long ago in our own country. Granted, equine medicine was a VERY different thing 80 years ago. I actually think local slaughter isn’t that bad of an idea. Monitered by the state, requiring owner presence.
And for people saying that horses are not being dumped, that is simply not true. I am in a rural Wyoming area and know FIRSTHAND that it is happening. These aren’t old ranch horses, most ranchers don’t have a problem shooting their old horses and burying them. These are people’s old, fat, crippled riding horses that they don’t know what to do with. It’s heartbreaking and irritating for the ranchers because then they are saddled with the job of going out and shooting someone else’s problem before the wolves or starvation get them.
Well, too the problem is the horse world turned “industry” a couple of decades back, without slaughter to rid ourselves of our unwanted, unsound, untrainables, and we don’t keep breeding, how are the vets going to keep going. There are vets whose only job is to get mares in foal. If we start lowering the numbers we are breeding, how does that support the “industry”? How do vets who only deal with 2&3 year olds legs on the track make their livings if there are no more 2 & 3 year olds running? The sad fact of the matter is that horses are the product and unwanted by-product of this “industry” & without slaughter, how is this “industry” going to be profitable for all of those PEOPLE involved??? Unfortunately, as a business person, I see the cycle, and it’s ugly. There is just not enough $$$$ on the planet to help the poor fugly horses of this “industry”. There needs to be a major paradigm shift with $$$ leaving the equation. Right.
The thing is, when you have a business that involves living creatures, there are going to have to be concessions to that. If there is less repro work, great, do something else – YOU’RE A VET, it’s not like you ONLY learned that. Lots of people have been forced to revise their business model in this economy to survive, and some of them succeed and some fail. That is the same thing the horse industry is going through. The industry has to change the focus to be on servicing the product, not producing it to the same extent. There is still a great market for lessons, training, showing, etc. when well done and wel marketed.
When were horses ever NOT an industry? This thing didn’t happen overnight and now we’ve got problems. People DO adapt their lifestyles and work areas to suit changing economic times. They HAVE to. I don’t think it is good rationale to say we have too many Thoroughbreds because there are vets who make their sole living looking at legs. Cut back the number of legs to look at and those same vets WILL be changing or going out of business!
Another happy follow up picture. Here is Trolley- the auction mare with the tube sock glued over the hole in her head. Look how super cute she looks in this holiday photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/5232657937/in/photostream/
PS: Sarah takes the best photos
O.M.G.
I hadn’t seen this before. Poor girl!
Thank god you guys have her, and she’s being cared for!!!!
oh look…you can take classes to learn how to be an asshat now!
http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-pets-animal-pet-services-EQUINE-ASSISTED-LEARNING-Information-Day-W0QQAdIdZ245643845
..because every beginner needs to learn how crawl between the back legs of a Clydesdale don’t you think?
Not trying to criticize, only to learn here, but..
To my (fat quarter horse trained) eye, Carefree is a lot differant than Nick.
Dumb point, yes, but,
Is she just younger, or differantly fit, or generally smaller…
She looks really narrow and lean compared to him, and smaller through the barrel and a lot more tucked up in her abdomen. Also she looks a lot lighter muscled. I am guessing that she is in excellant health, I mean she sure looks healthy and sound, but Nick looks like twice the horse she is. Being totally unaccustomed to thoroughbreds of any sort, I just wonder what that should be telling me, if anything. Will she get bigger and thicker? or is she simply a differant style?
She is not as high quality a horse as he is, but the other issue is conditioning. She is only pasture fit and being ridden occasionally; he is super fit and competing. Big difference!
OT, except as this relates to horse slaughter–and this time it wasn’t even a supposedly “unwanted” horse–but I really, really hope this reward is enough now to get somebody to rat out their horse-killing buddies. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13542918
No one is ok with inhumane slaughter. But the captive bolt gun is a humane option. If slaughter plants could be changed to a system that would be less traumatic for a horse then I would be all for it.
A tax per foal is just asinine , the state(s) can’t get people to pay their regular tax’s. What makes anyone think that people who are irresponsible enough to breed junk animals that have no purpose are going to actually pay a tax to do it.
Cows arent majestic and gracefull , neither are sheep or goats , chickens can be nasty vile animals etc.. But yet the horse gets put up on a high stool because it is gracefull? Look , I love horses as much as anyone on here , but the realistic option is slaughter. More countries DO eat horses then don’t. Iceland for example seems to have a great system , some are bred for it and the failed riding stock are eaten.
Slaughter is a business. It will never be humane because humane treatment is too expensive. First there is the problem of transport. How can you transport large numbers of horses cheaply and humanely? Now, horses are just crammed into vans, as many as can fit. Unlike beef cattle who are all the same size, age, and are presumably healthy because of their young age, horses are crammed together, ponies, drafts, mares in heat, full-term pregnant mares, yearlings, and stallions. I believe it is illegal in some places to ship stallions with other horses, so how do they get around it? They geld them at the feed lot and ship them immediately, full of all the hormones and instincts of an intact male. So the resulting fights and injuries on these long rides are horrible– as can be graphically viewed on the USDA photos of horses arriving at the slaughter plants. Missing eyes, legs broken off, down in the van and dead, etc… Humane shipping would be very expensive. The slaughter brokers and shippers DON’T CARE that the horses suffer. Hell, they ship horses already lame and ill.
Of course there is the auction process, in itself a potential nightmare, and transport following that.
Then there are the feedlots where ill and lame horse are not tended. Could it be done in a humane way? Of course. Will it? No. There is no concern, will or desire on the part of humans involved in the industry, except as a reaction to criticism that might affect their bottom line. Look at the slaughter houses in Canada which were supposed to have Inspectors monitoring all kills of horses, but because of bureaucratic bungling, inspectors did not view even one kill for more than two years!
As to the captive bolt: it is only humane if it is used perfectly. Many critics have pointed out that the problem with positioning the captive bolt, designed to stun cattle, is that horses are reactive and instinctively raise their heads and spook, making it difficult to stun them. I’m sure a skilled operator could be accurate most of the time, but I do not believe, and I’ll bet I’m right, that they just can’t hit the horse all of the time. One video shows something like one out of seven horses missed. What happens after that is not humane, and there are too many videos out there of horses being strung up and gutted while struggling. Anyway, the captive bolt is supposed to “render the animal unconscious,” not kill it, so it seems there is some room for error there. Another thing, why do the slaughter houses in Canada use guns if the captive bolts are so great? I would imagine it’s because it is easier to shoot a horse in the head than place a machine on its forehead. Even so, the killer still misses sometimes.
As for slaughter being the “realistic option,” Jonathan Swift had a realistic option in his “Modest Proposal.”
@Laciefan – Thanks for bringing up Swift.
“like”
WOW – What a beautiful guy Alaska Bowtie is, and how lucky did his owner get by doing the right thing! I can only hope my eventual OTTB adoption experience will turn out so well. (Although, I am very curious: what was the poster here referring to when she said something about the “typical TB hop with the back end”? Someone please explain … I didn’t know that was the case with TBs, or just never noticed, I guess, because I’ve ridden a few!)
As far as the slaughter issue goes, I have to say, before I started reading this blog I used to think it was a necessary evil. I used to receive The Horse magazine, and well remember reading editorials with input from the AAEP that were very pro-slaughter. I was rather influenced by those because I was going to be a vet myself, and generally have a lot of respect for them. Now, thanks to Cathy and many of you fellow readers, I am now firmly in the “no slaughter, for any reason” court*. I’m a meat eater myself and not about to change that, but HORSES ARE DIFFERENT, period. They simply can not be categorized with cattle, hogs, sheep, chickens, etc. No, I don’t want the other animals treated badly, either, don’t get me wrong, I know people form relationships with those animals as well, but (I’d love to have a pet sheep, I like those critters!)… I guess it boils down to whether you view horses as companions/friends vs. mere livestock/income producers. There are plenty of people in BOTH camps, and n’er the twain will meet, I’m afraid!
* At least in this country. They are going to be eaten elsewhere, no matter what, so if someone wants to run a farm with them as meat animals, and raise and slaughter them as humanely as possible, I guess I can live with that.
Foal tax.
It’s funny to me how Republicans are some of the biggest NIMBYs around. In other words, if it’s your pet peeve/pet project, TAX AND REGULATE AWAY. If it’s not, it’s GET YER HANDS OUT OF MY WALLET/OUTTA MY BUSINESS/I’M THROWIN’ A TEA PARTY. You can’t have it both ways, sorry. I mean, I guess you can, but it’s highly hypocritical and if your special interest in important enough to regulate, you’d better be willing to subject yourself to everyone else’s too.**
A foal tax would work about as well as dog and cat licensing fees do. Which is to say, it wouldn’t at all. Lots of places require licensing for dogs or dogs and cats both, yet we still destroy millions of “excess” animals every year in our shelter/animal control system at a direct expense to tax payers.
The tax/fee would likely be administered locally and as has already been mentioned, enforcement would be key. Very, very few counties actually have the manpower or the will to enforce licensing. Pay someone to go door to door to check horse licenses? Not going to happen. Even if it did, what do you do with the folks who won’t comply? Confiscate their horses? Fine them? Put a lien on their property if they even own any? That’d take months and months of legal nonsense. Counties and states can’t even handle real criminal case loads. And besides, even if one county taxed and enforced, the next county over probably wouldn’t.
We can scare the Europeans off of eating our horses by telling the truth about the quality of the meat. (Forget the Japanese, they’re more than happy to eat mercury-loaded dolphin and would certainly have no problem eating bute-laced horse.)
The only way to truly put bottom feeder breeders out of business is to convince Americans to place quality over quantity. The paradigm shift has to happen with the general public AND then at the AQHA-type level. Given how popular puppy-milled dogs, all-you-can-eat crappy, processed food buffets and WalMart continue to be, that ain’t happenin’ any time soon. We want what we want NOW, we want it CHEAP and we’re gonna toss it out when we’re done.
**For the record, I too fully believe the Obama health insurance access bill is a crock of shit. And I’d sooner eat a person than a horse.
I agree that you can’t convince people to pick quality. THAT is why you have to ECONOMICALLY force these low end breeders out of business.
I’m not THAT much of a Republican. Tax & regulate away if it saves lives. And of course it CAN be done, because it will make MONEY and that money makes the enforcement possible.
Actually, you’re not THAT much of a Libertarian.
Republicans are always happy to tax and spend as long as its on their very own bridge to nowhere.
It won’t make money. Theoretically, on paper, if you could charge a decent amount and most everyone willingly paid, it could work. But look at the numbers…
Most fees like this are county-based. There are 3,143 counties/parishes in the USA. Say the average animal control person makes 30k a year and we assign one person per county to dedicating their time to enforcing foal tax/licensing. You’ll need to bring in north of $94M in licensing revenues annually to support just the salary for one animal control officer per county dedicated to enforcing the horse tax. Sure, some counties would need just a fraction of one person’s time, but others would need several people including someone to process all these licenses and to pursue those who refuse to pay.
If you bump it up to state level where you’d gain efficiencies of having the system centralized, you’ll end up with like 8 people for an entire state charged with enforcing the fees and certainly a close to 0% compliance.
We apparently ship about 100k horses across the boarder for slaughter per year. A $100M program to save 100k horses? Not going to happen. Running animal control for dogs & cats costs states and local governments millions of dollars a year. They’ve tried using licensing fees to offset those costs in many areas and it doesn’t even make a dent.
Now if you could require that every breed registry fee include a kickback fee to animal control in the state the foal is born in, that *could* make it easier to bring in some revenue to fund enforcing the tax on all the rest of the foals born. But really, you won’t be able to police the appypaintgaitedfugaloosacowpony breeders without going barn to barn.
As a complete aside, thank god for this thread… I completely forgot my car registration renewal is due next week until I started thinking about government fees. HA!
I’d want to see something a little more detailed as to the numbers before I have a different opinion. How did you come up with 94 million? What are you calculating as the cost of enforcement? Why are we assuming it has to be someone’s full time job? Are you assuming that NO fees will be paid without a human enforcing it? That’s not reasonable. Most people do pay fees without being chased for them.
$94M is simply multiplying a guestimated average salary and benefit cost ($30K) of one full time animal control person per county (3,143 counties in the USA) to collect and enforce fees. What you’re suggesting is like the licensing fees for cats and dogs, so a county-based structure is what I used. It’s obviously a total ball park, as some counties (say, Manhattan), wouldn’t even need a part time person, but others would need several. And again, you have to employ people to process and maintain a license database and to drive around pursuing non-compliance situations. That all costs money. Even if you used just 1/10 of one person’s time per county–that’s someone spending 16 hours a month for an entire county, you’re looking at $10M program for salary alone.
It’s your fee proposal, it’s your job to figure out how to fund and execute it. how many foals are born a year? How much would you charge per foal? What’s your expected compliance rate? Is it administered at the state level? Or local? Who gets the fee revenue and who decides how it’s spent? What are the non-compliance fines? How are they collected? And through what arbitration process are they contested? It’s simple to say “let’s have a foal tax!” but we both know, it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
Compliance in dog & cat licensing is very, very low in many places. While some people willingly pay the county fee, the vast majority do not–it’s often in the 10% to 25% range of compliance for dog licensing in California. Many counties here only enforce licensing if they pick up your dog as a stray because it’s just not worth it to be proactive.
Hey look… Just last week, New York state handed licensing of dogs back from the state to local counties because of budget cuts. Many counties aren’t planning on auditing their dog population or pursuing compliance because it’d cost too much money.
Now why would this be any different for horses? We have what, 4 to 5 million horses in the USA with like a million in Texas alone? How do you police that without a pretty robust enforcement staff?
I think a foal tax or a horse tax is a good idea. Having said that, the dog and cat problem is different in one particular way: excess dogs and cats are a public health and welfare risk. No one wants packs of dogs running around, or masses of un-vaccinated animals passing around diseases like rabies. Wild cats can be a problem too, I suppose. And while there may be some counties with low rates of compliance, there are plenty which don’t have that problem. Also, in my city, if you don’t pay your dog license and your dog gets impounded, you pay a fine, and they make sure your dog is neutered. That in itself is a good thing, because people who are not responsible about neutering their pets are often the same ones who let them wander.
Right, the dog and cat problems are a lot bigger than the horse problem. For one, there’s rabies, the main reason we even have dog licensing anywhere to begin with. Two, there are millions of excess cats and dogs in the USA that are destroyed each year. There are on the other hand, 100k to 200k horses that are shipped to slaughter annually (reported numbers are closer to 100k, but 200k reflects my belief that there are more).
So we already have one much bigger problem on our hands with well-established licensing laws that are not and in many cases cannot be enforced. Why would a horse tax be any different? And where’s the money going to come from to fund a whole fleet of license enforcers? And how are you going to get every county in the country to agree to a standard licensing regulation?
Not. going. to. happen. ever.
Now… get the IRS on the case and start going after every horse sale as potentially unreported income and you may have something. They won’t stop till they get their money AND there are already rules in place for them to confiscate property when existing tax laws are violated. That’s the avenue I’d use to put a knuckle dragging BYB out of business anyway.
Well, that’s a good point – except that our numerous efforts to get the IRS to do something about the feedlot scammers have fallen on deaf ears. So I am not sure they are going to do any better than anyone else.
Every time I see one of these pro – v- anti slaughter debates come up, the ‘pro’ people wheel out two arguments which I’m going to address with one answer. The first argument is “Horses are animals. Slaughtering animals for money is fine. Therefore, slaughtering horses for money is fine.” The second, broader range argument boils down to “Don’t let your bleeding heart run away with your bloody head.”
The impression one gets from these arguments is that decision-making should be guided solely by rational, logical processes, and that any introduction of emotion will lead to stupid decisions and ultimately disaster.
There is, of course, a fault the size of the San Andreas in this reasoning. People AREN’T rational and logical. That isn’t a bad thing either. There are all manner of situations where behaving in a coldly logical way is not possible for any sane human being.
Let me give you an example; remember the (logical) argument “horses are animals- slaughtering animals for money is fine -therefore, slaughtering horses for money is fine,” I mentioned earlier? Well, if we continue the logic of that, we arrive at: “Greater apes have less than human intelligence. Greater apes are used for medical testing. Some brain-damaged people are only as intelligent as greater apes. Therefore, brain-damaged people should be used for medical testing.”
Despite all the logic in the world (more accurate results, after all) all the claims of hypocrisy (if we’re going to use one sensitive primate with moderate intelligence, it’s hypocritical to say we shouldn’t use a different sort of sensitive primate with moderate intelligence) and all the pleas to hard-hearted practicality (it’s a heck of a lot easier to get a hold of a brain-damaged human than it is to breed chimps specifically for the purpose. And besides, those people are a burden on the economy,) despite all of that reasoning, the whole notion should squick you out.
Because there are some things we, as emotional beings, just don’t do, even if refusing to do them is illogical, hypocritical, and impractical. We don’t do things which are just plain wrong.
Companion animals may not be different from meat animals in any logical way, but there is a difference to us, and that difference is a valid one. Sending pets, even those belonging to other people, even those who just have the potential to be pets, off to die because we don’t want to deal with them any more and, hey, we can get some cash out of it, should be one of those things we just don’t do.
*LIKE* I think SOMEBODY has studied a little Philosophy!
Have any studies been done of the long term health effects in humans after consuming horse meat tainted with bute and wormers? Also what will happen if the citizens of those countries importing horse meat from America do begin getting ill will our country, as the country of origin, be held accountable and to what extent and who will pay for that? Certainly not the BYB’s or the indiscriminate breeders! So the slaughter industry that is making money will end up costing us even more.
I have never in my life heard of someone killing a horse with a shotgun. I guess it could work, but around here they use pistols- close range and very effective. Never a rifle or shotgun.