Think you’re a great rescue? PROVE IT.
Nov 21 2010
Long-time readers of this blog will remember the name of Celeita Kramer and the stories of the unfortunate horses who cross her path at her Crossed Sabers rescue.
You Win, Celeita. You Are The Craziest Rescuer Ever.
Scroll down to the second half of this post for a crazygram straight from Celeita!
The latest story is this one:
Celeita is currently busy on Angel Acres’ Facebook threatening to sue us all! She seems to have missed the memo that when you do not have hay money, you do not have lawyer money. Lawyer money is A LOT MORE than hay money, especially on the East Coast! (I am kinda hoping she sues me pro per, it would be about the best time I have ever had in my entire life.) Celeita’s arguments about how great her rescue is and how none of us have any evidence fail miserably, because she does not know who has been to her barn that is a blog reader and has adopted from her (and trust me, it has happened). She doesn’t seem to realize we HAVE documentation of her poor horse care, and even if local authorities haven’t nailed her yet, that documentation is there for use in defending any silly civil suit she cares to bring.
Overall, the main thing Celeita doesn’t realize when she makes these threats is that we have, like, a bazillion witnesses for our side.
Actually, everybody on the WHOLE INTERWEBZ thinks you’re a nut and has stories about you, Celeita!
The best part is that Celeita has now accused me and Jo Deibel of “being jealous.” I know this is so hard to believe, but neither of us wants to be a bat-shit crazy old hoarder who takes in too many horses, lies to adopters to get rid of them, and threatens to kill them in order to get donations. May lightning strike us both if either Jo or I have had a SINGLE MOMENT of wishing we could be Celeita Kramer! 
I told Celeita that if she can obtain GFAS Accreditation, I will write an apology blog and take back everything I have ever written about her. If you really want to argue that your rescue is well run and that your financial management is sane and sensible, let’s see you get accredited. Yes, there will be site checks (some of which you won’t know about or be able to prepare for) and yes, there is a financial audit. Jo was able to live up to their standard. So did Habitat for Horses. So did Equine Voices. So did Front Range. So did the Horse Harbor Foundation. If you are the President of a rescue, you need to apply. This is going to be the only way for remote donors to know for sure that you are doing it right, and it is going to help you get grants that allow you to keep doing it right. There is really no excuse for not applying. You think you are doing a great job? Prove it to the world.
Here is all the info you need.
Shiloh Horse Rescue is back to normal hours again after the sad loss of Tony Curtis last month. Here is some new video of Beau, a gorgeous red chestnut Thoroughbred gelding. Beau’s page is here. He is eight years old and ready to go home with a new adopter and learn some new skills. Check him out!
124 comments to “Think you’re a great rescue? PROVE IT.”
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If her rescue is so great why did she only have 10 days of feed left, she was going to turn her horses loose on her property for lack of food to let them starve that way (if she had pasture I’d like to assume she’d be utilizing it) because if people don’t hand her the world she’s going to just give up?
There are mental illnesses that give people this kind of entitlement – I get to sit on my ass and let everyone around me do the work because I deserve it – and others that people are actually so wrapped up in what they believe is reality that to them it’s the truth. Then there are people that were spoiled rotten as children with everything handed to them, no work involved and they grow up and that expectation continues.
I like having stuff handed to me, I really do. But somehow I’ve found that things that are just handed to me tend to come with a hefty price tag somewhere along the line. So it’s easier to refrain from getting take-out, buying new shoes when the ones I have can suffice for another season, and leaving things I “want” at the store so I can buy hay, and frontline and heartguard for my dogs, and pay to get my brakes repaired.
Geez, this sounds just like someone I used to know…the hard-knock life, the overflow of horses at a not-legit rescue, the OMG WE NEED HELP! shit, needing volunteers to help, the I-am-so-overqualified-for-any-REAL-job crap…everything. There is just too damned many of these people in circulation!
Yeah I was so angry when she posted that blog blaming her ex who promised to take care of the horses. SERIOUSLY? What are you, twelve? TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
OMHFG, finally I think this is to much for me. I’m going to have to jump :~}!
I downloaded the criteria for that approval process. Firearms training? Really? Is there something I’m missing?
I would assume that relates to having the ability to put a horse down with a bullet if circumstances make it impossible to obtain a vet quickly and the horse is suffering horribly (like I know of a filly who cut her FOOT off in electrobraid…there’s an example for you. Cut it all the way off.) Let’s say you’re snowed in and no one can get through.
Yeah, that would make sense, but the entry is under site security, which gives me visions of armed forces defending the rescue from invaders.
“I don’t feel the need to meet a certification or a standard I had nothing to do with selecting the standards but that certificiation is not governed by the law and required by law and oh, how many rescues have done this…. one? Its easy to take care of 5 or 10 horses but I saved as many as 300 in one year… think of all the horses that are going to slaughter because rescues are sitting there with all of 10 horses. I prefer to save more when I can, any other time you all would be praising the work but not during this crazy witch hunt. ”
Celetia, you are playing waaaay out of your league, and REALITY does not spport your insane ramblings.
I prefer to save the amount that CAN ACTUALLY GET FED AND PROPERLY CARED FOR.
I’m crazy like that, I know. Fortunately I have a lot of company in that belief!
Oh, and for the record, IMO starvation/neglect IS EQUALLY BAD as slaughter. One is not better than the other. There isn’t a lesser of two evils there. THEY BOTH SUCK and neither is ever acceptable, and I don’t care what your reasons, circumstances, or intentions are.
(FYI, I have the world’s worst sudden onset flu right now so I am even less inclined to be in a charitable mood toward idiots!)
I have liked everything about the GFAS certification I have read so far but I like to really research things out first. I’m not sure about the sanctuary part, we don’t do that right now. Even if they are pasture pets they will get rehomed. So Ill have to read more about that.
About rescues and money
Someone actually contacted our trainers today- They said they wanted to know if they would help them start up a rescue and train horses . The husband and wife were out of work and had followed the local horse rescue blog– that was raising money left and right and said that there is a you tube video out there called Flip this Horse that teaches you all about making tons of money in horse rescue. Seriously??
Our trainers are a husband and wife and the wife is actually a board member that donates services and rehab her husband is a farrier that also helps out . After she finished choking on the words “money in rescue” she tore the guy a new one about how rescue is not a replacement for a job.
Amen
Well there IS a video series called ‘Flip this Horse’
Here you go!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OuhSo7V0o
I suspect it is more geared to ‘know what you are doing before you start’
and ‘only get one horse at a time’
and NOT ‘make a whole whack of money really fast’, but who knows…
Many have moved on to the other threads and I am catching up.
I’m posting regardless and there are important reasons.
FUGLY…the US equine butchers compare slaughter death to starving to death every chance they get. They insist a quick death is better than a slow one.
Agreed…both are unacceptable. The killers say the lack of slaughter is why equines starve. I say, the equine starving in the field has a second chance; the equine on the kill truck has none, starving or not….and they frequently are regardless of slaughter destination.
It is a fine line regarding standards and quality of life. Perhaps you meant to say a starving and dead equine is just as disgusting as a slaughtered one.
Starving or slaughtered are both a function of reckless ownership (hell…feedlots and KBs do it everyday) or possibly theft, which I doubt is the high possibility per centage of slaughterbound equines.
To compare the process of slaughter v. starvation death may be reasonable, but an equine starving that is rehomed is entirely different.
If your point is the similarity of slaughter v. starved becuae of horrible ownership, OK; if it’s about starving in the field and successfully rehomed v. slaughter…no way.
Didn’t see an immediate reply stating same and haven’t traveled further down the post line…if it is a repeat, apologize.
I tend to think like you do. I hate starvation too but I know many horses who endured it and now have idyllic lives.
No such second chance for the horse standing in line for the bolt gun.
Wtf? I’m pretty sure MOST standards aren’t voted on and set by everyone involved. It’s not like you can just DECIDE to be a CPA and be like “well, that exam just doesn’t really apply to me. I didn’t make the standards so I don’t see the need to conform.”
Sure lady, don’t let “the man” get you down. I’m really glad my taxes are going to be supporting your ass on welfare someday soon when the floor falls out from under you because you have a pathological and compulsive need to collect animals.
I think suggesting GFAS accreditation is an excellent idea. Not only would you apologize, but the whole online horse community could be made aware of another excellent place to support.
I don’t think there’s a snowballs chance you-know-where of this happening, but hey, I’ve been wrong before. I am sure she will have DOZENS of reasons why GFAS accreditation is impossible for her. I can’t wait to see them. I’ve been needing a good laugh for a while.
Meanwhile, I have changed my giving plan to include only GFAS certified horse rescues. I want Alaska Equine Rescue to get certified, because I think they do a good job with next to no resources and I think they would be taken more seriously if they were certified.
We are a non-profit horse rescue, operating since 2004. We’re small- we only have about 10 horses. We are currently trying to get accreditation through GFAS but because we don’t own the land or have a 10-15 year lease, we are not having much luck.
We’ve been accredited through other pathways, and our veterinarian is always pleased to write about how well the horses are cared for, but with the nearest suitable property being $2.4 million, owning our own land is probably not a possibility.
I wonder if GFAS would be willing, if the rescued agreed to it, to publicly list the reason the rescue did not pass? It would be VERY nice to know the difference between not owning the land (hell, I don’t own land, either) and having the inspector show up and find horses who are a 2 on the Henneke Scale or barbed wire fence.
Hmm see thats interesting.
If you are a part of the non profit and own the land and lease it to the rescue you have to be sure everything is contracted right , voted on and passed by the Att General , if not you can be in a lot of trouble. People do it all the time without taking those precautions and that is not a real good idea.
If you lease the land you need a 15 year lease- good luck finding that when everyone is hoping the housing market bounces back so they can sell.
It would be great if I had the money to own the land! If that happens, I’ll be sure to make sure everything is in-line. I’m a teacher and in Orange County we qualify for low income housing; here’s no way I’m ever going to be able to afford the land unless we move the rescue out in the middle of nowhere, and then we lose all of our volunteers, etc.
Right now we lease land from a third party and have 10 horses.
We are all about transparency, so I’d be completely comfortable if GFAS would give us a tentative approval. We’re also looking into accreditation through the humane society, but we have to raise the funds to put all of the horses in pipes- we have two electric-tape paddocks (yes, with caps on the t-posts!). We have the pipes to make stalls, but then the horses are sad.
They like to be able to move around more.
Some time back, Cathy did a blog on “good enough” homes for rescue horses. Something to the effect that rescues need to be reasonable in their requirement for adoptive home because if they only accept the very finest homes for their horses, they are not going to get many horses into homes.
Maybe people need to be willing to accept “good enough” rescues. I personally have no problem with electric tape. I’ll bet a lot of people here use it. Maybe T posts could be “grandfathered” – any that exist on the property when you move onto it are acceptable if capped, but do not install any more.
I can understand that owning the land provides much more security for the the horses, but there is little security in standing on a broker’s lot. Perhaps rescues on leased land could be required to remain “small” and have agreements with several people and/or rescues who would each take in a few of the horse if they became homeless.
There most be some way to come up with some reasonable guidelines that will allow responsible people to do rescue on a sensible scale while weeding out the scams.
Well, I will say this – GFAS tries to work with people to find funding if fencing needs to be replaced, something like that.
I personally would not have standards AS strict as GFAS – I have NO problem with electric tape and (capped) t-posts – but at this point, I don’t mind if GFAS is the gold standard. Maybe they will, in time, consider another level of accreditation for rescues that, for example, don’t own their own land or don’t meet the current standard in other minor, unimportant ways.
Actually it’s a good blog topic. We’ll have to discuss what we’d make the standards be if we were running a rescue accreditation program. Also a riding school or a boarding stable. We could talk about that all day!
I know they have a slightly lower-level standard (I think the call it “verified” if I remember correctly).
Might be worth checking if its requirements include land ownership, I specifically remember it was mentioned as an alternative for rescues who are not large enough to meet some of the “accredited” qualifications but still maintain a standard of care and responsibility and are willing to submit to much the same site checks, etc.
Danke! I’ll have our VP look into it!
I would like to comment about the GFAS subject.
I believe it is very misleading to suggest to your Fugly readers that only GFAS accredited rescues are legit or are “The Gold Standard”. The GFAS is used to accredit Sanctuaries. Many excellent rescues do not provide sanctuary AND adoptions. They are adoption services and are not in the “sanctuary” business. Yes we all know some horses are simply not the most desireable to adopt and can stay at rescues for long periods of time but they are still avialable for adoption and are not put in sanctuary and due to that fact many rescues do not provide for a sanctuary side of the business (because lets face it, that is a whole different ball game and should be a separate side of the business) they do not qualify for GFAS accreditation. I realize you are Buds with the GFAS crew and you want to promote their services but suggesting that rescues that are not accredited through GFAS are somehow below standard or are potentially scams is very unprofessional and misleading to the general public that may be looking for a rescue horse or a rescue to donate money or services to.
Just thought I would throw this in so you casual readers out there are not brainwashed into thinking GFAS is the only way to PROVE that a rescue is an excellent one. The best thing to do is to visit the rescue you would like to support. Talk to previous adopters or current volunteers. Talk with the board members to see where their head and hearts are. A rescue that has been in business for a few years should have a very good support system already in place and should be able to provide before and after pictures of horses that have been in their care and allow you to talk with current adopters. Most rescues do not own their own land. They must rely on leases that are shorter than 10 years because many land owners do not want to commit to that length of time to tie up their land. Many rescues cannot afford full board fencing and as long as the fencing is safe and secure and not a hazard and eye sore and the horses are healthy and happy and given clean water and good hay and grain and love and TLC and the training they need you should feel good about supporting the group.
Take a look at the financials. A 990 is a great place to start. Are they a member of the CFC? IF so they are certainly within an excellent financial standard. Believe me when I say getting into the Combined Federal Campaign is not easy and financial are gone through with a fine toothed comb.
Hope this helps some of you that might be a bit confused on this topic.
Keep up the good work Fugly Horse !
I agree that there are other standards, HOWEVER you are wrong about GFAS.
Rescues that ARE NOT SANCTUARIES are now accredited by GFAS. This is recent, less than 2 years.
Thank you…I will look into that. The last time I checked into it the guidelines were for sanctuaries. If that has changed that is a good thing. I do have some concerns about the cost to have an inspector visit the rescues. Apparently time, hotel and travel reimbursement are required? and on top of that after 3 years $150 is the re-app fee. In our state you must be licensed if you have a horse facility and must pay a yearly licensing fee. The two together could be very costly for a small upstanding rescue that is working hard to make ends meet. I guess my point is simply that the GFAS accreditation is not the only way to go to PROVE a rescue is worth supporting.
Keep up the good work Fugly Horse ! and lets hope its a Happy New Year for the horses in this blessed and confused Country.
Also, I have had a an “episode” with Dear Celitta and she is a TOTAL freak and liar to boot.
Oh yes…I really don’t know of anyone who will come out and say they had a GOOD experience with Celeita!
If anyone wants to stare nuts in the face, I suggest going here and clicking through all the pages, particularly the donor stuff and services.
http://www.crossedsabers.com/
Below is one priceless example of what this is about (hint: THIS IS NOT RESCUE)-
“Today, we can only take horses that will help us raise funds (high end fancy horses with a high dollar value, well trained/sound/young competition horses, warmbloods of any age, horses of unusual breeds or colors) or the horses with donors will will pay our monthly donation of $200. a month to help us care for the horse while we are looking for a home, a max of 8 months would be paid.”
Does she have enough links on the homepage?
@ Kim
No joke, that is the ugliest website I have ever visited to hands down. It assaults my eyes!
Yea, I read that part…..ugh. I also love the part where she writes how great it is to donate your horse to her because they make sure it is “safe for life”…how they track them in the future and do background checks on all the adopters…blah blah blah
Whats sad is there are so many desperate owners out there who will think they hit the jackpot by finding this place and getting them to take their horse.
People like this whackjob terrify me. That godawful website is exactly the kind of garbage that I see right through, but a certain friend of mine would fall for hook, line and sinker. It’s double scary when she’s been trying to rehome her chronically lame draft cross gelding all year. I’m so glad she hasn’t seen this Crossed Sabers place. I personally don’t get along with the horse, but he deserves to be humanely euthanized, not delivered into the hands of someone like this psychotic, paranoid cow!
And what’s with the name anyway? Crossed Sabers Stable? That name just screams to me, “Welcome to Dramaland!”
There have also been problems at Hidden Meadow and Breakheart Ranch. The wackos do seem to come up with appropriate names.
Yeesh! What a busy website! I’m so glad my internet doesn’t run slow, otherwise I think my computer would crash with all the crap on this page!
No helmet and flipflops. Lovely…
Hay stored in the middle of the aisle? Isn’t that a fire hazard?
http://www.crossedsabers.com/SECOND_WIND_ADOPTION_PROGRAM/Our_Facilities.htm
You know…I understand the house is where you live, but I don’t think putting pictures of your house on your website is a great idea… And am I the only one that thinks this place looks a little too cluttered with decorations?
http://www.crossedsabers.com/SECOND_WIND_ADOPTION_PROGRAM/WishList.htm
Oh, dear…
“2. A Farm in any location for low cost long term lease or donation to expand our program to develop a retirement farm for our now aging horses returned to us from adopters who could not retire our horses. Our highest priority locations initially are Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Maryland, or Delaware.” *facepalm*
Wow, fully half the photos on that page are interior shots of her house! WTF does anyone care what the inside of her house looks like?
And the real question… is that HER place (currently) or was that her ex’s place? I have to admit, it does look beautiful – rolling hills and all that.
I only wish crazy was something that always showed on the outside.
I’m not defending this site or business at all, but have a question based on your post.
Why is hay stored in the aisle any more a fire hazard than hay stored in a stall or a hay loft? We fill our hay loft, but rather than climb the ladder and throw one bail down at a time, we’ll throw 5 or 6 pile them in the aisle or up against a wall away from the path of the horses. I might consider this a tripping hazard or a clutter annoyance but I’ve never even thought of it as a fire hazard.
I know a separate hay building is ideal, but some of us don’t have that luxury.
Thanks!
I think the main problem is that anything in the aisle is a fire hazard (wheelbarrows, etc.) There should always be a 100% clear path to evacuate horses in a hurry.
Basically what Fugly just said.
Yes, a separate building is ideal but not everyone can afford that realistically. I said its a fire hazard mostly because I was thinking that if those hay bales catch fire, they’re directly in front of the horses, which means that if the fire spreads, it could endanger the horses really quickly, especially those that are close to the hay like that.
Oh god they operate an Equine Cemetery.
Lord knows how many horses they’ve lost/killed unnecessarily over the years since they apparently have access to a backhoe/enough ‘volunteer boot-campers’ to dig lots of very big holes.
Oh who am I kidding? I’d be very surprised to find out they actually bury them (especially since they don’t seem to own or properly lease any land for long). I probably don’t want to know what they do with them as they march to the bank with their $500-750 checks.
And the option to ship your horse there before it’s actually dead to be put down and buried? I’m thinking $750 check from the owner and $100 check from the kill buyer!
I was going to post that too! I can’t get over this part on her adoptions page. It’s about a 5 year old, 3 legged doberman:
“He has a biting trigger, if a stranger puts his face in their face, he will bite them… other than that he is a wonderful sweet dog, loyal, lovable. Don’t make this dog pay for what people did to him, he is this way because of stupid people putting their face in a strange dogs face, a dog they do not even know and they scared him”
And a min-pin for adoption:
“crate trained, loves to play, will stay around but does not know about cars and would need to be kept from busy roads.”
So non-busy roads are ok? How about just requiring that people actually keep their dogs in a fenced in yard instead of letting them run around?
Well, half the horses and dogs aren’t spayed/neutered/gelded… what does THAT tell ya?
And really, why the hell would you adopt out a dog that has a proven track record of biting people in the face??
So many people have a bad opinion of Dobermanns, and telling them it has a history of biting…. well, that dog ain’t goin’ nowhere.
And I can say that about Dobe’s since I was a proud owner of one for 11 years! Biggest suckiest lap dog you’d ever meet and due to abuse as a baby (obviously before I got her!) was a timid creature.
I am ACO in Pleasants County WV. I run the Pleasants Co. Humane Society’s Dog Shelter. Just 2 countys over from this so called rescue. I have also had a runin with this woman. My comment to this post is. And I am not defient about this. Might be worth looking into. But I do believe it is against the law to bury a horse in WV.
I have been having a heated debate with this woman on the PCHS FB. Anyone want to come over and join the link is. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pleasants-County-Humane-Society/183027015641#!/pages/Pleasants-County-Humane-Society/183027015641
See, all she DOES is argue on Facebook all day. Here’s an idea: GET A DAMN JOB with all of that time. If you can type posts on Facebook, you CAN work.
I presented her cached website as a bad example for our livestock marketing class. When I scrolled down her blacklist, everybody lost it laughing. Getting blacklisted was the big joke for the rest of the day.
Off topic — would you consider installing IntenseDebate comments on this blog, Fugly? Might be fun
.
I will look that up, I don’t know what it is.
Thank you for posting this. She is one crazy fucking bitch.
I just have to say that the “Horse Adoption: A Dark Side” article needs a copy editor!! The first paragraph alone made my eyes cross. (If you want people to take your work seriously, you need to use proper spelling and punctuation.)
Sorry. Just a pet peeve of mine.
As for Celeita…words fail me. Anyone who thinks she can MAKE money by “rescuing” horses needs to have her head examined.
I’m from West Virginia, and the only experience I know of personally wasn’t too bad. The place always set off red flags for me though. I felt that the person I knew got ripped off, but she always defended the place.
On another note, the author of that article is an atrocious writer. C’mon folks, we’re already working at a little of a deficit here, can we let the world know that ALL of WV isn’t populated with animal abusing idiots or bad writers? Punctuation is a good thing.
I swear there are good things about WV!
I am from WV too. I HATE that there are so many shoddy “rescues” here. It seems like the only press we get is bad press.
You can’t argue with crazy.
I had a look at what GFAS is doing, terrific for those of us that want to be able to safely donate remotely. So glad that horses were included in their scope.
just because this is HILARIOUS her Linkedin profile… it was on the first page of a google search!
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cakramer
OMG she SO didn’t write that herself!! Between the obvious use of spell check and the use of proper grammar and punctuation… it’s quite obvious someone else wrote it. If I hadn’t read so much crap about her, I’d actually have been impressed!
Did you see her accomplishments? She’s listed as “1 of Most Admired Women of the Decade.”
Admired by who? Her reflection in the mirror?
Her military credentials seem -extremely- overstated, if not outright falsifications in some areas.
If they’re true then more power to her, but if they are not, well, most people who actually DID that stuff don’t take kindly to that.
Wish I could find her service number so I could do a FOIA. That would settle it pretty soundly.
I maybe able to get that more quickly. If so I will let Fugly know.
This article gives her military bio, probably written by her : http://www.wvstateu.edu/news/2010/10/07/rotc-induct-three-alumni-hall-fame
There’s an even longer list of her awards on her website here: http://www.crossedsabers.com/SECOND_WIND_ADOPTION_PROGRAM/CSS_in_the_News.htm
Her name and rank are given as Major Celetia A. Stephens Kramer. The internet has a surprising lack of information for most of the awards she claims to have received, although I suspect they could be run down fairly easily by someone who’s willing to contact the awarding agencies and ask.
Wow, the more I read this blog, the more I realize that my friend is very much like all of these people I read about here. She always has excuses of why she can’t get her horses shoes, why they aren’t wormed, why she can’t have the vet check up on them when they are ill, why she rides her old gelding (in my opinion who should be retired) over jumps instead of her healthy 5 year old mare, never cleans her pasture, and why their 12 year old Arabian and don’t know age of other mare, aren’t broke. That’s probably a run-on sentence of doom. And it’s ALWAYS somebody else’s fault, never her’s. Mostly she blames her Mom because right now she isn’t old enough to be technically responsible, but she is old enough to get a job. And she has BAJILLION excuses for that one too. My favorite one is she doesn’t have a car, but there are at least 20 different job opportunities in a 5 minute walking distance from HER HOUSE! It’s more frustrating to hear her complain about her life’s “horrible situation” all the time. I give her tons of problem solving strategies, but she just makes up another excuse to not solve the problem. I honestly feel like she wants to be pitied and babied instead of actually doing anything about it.
I love her to death because we have been together for a LONG time but I know she won’t change, at least not immediately. Nor do I want to offend her because I have always had her best interest at heart and have tried to help her. But people need to realize that in these type of situations, they can only help themselves. When you have more excuses than you have ways to solve a problem, then that’s a problem. Probably got off topic, but I needed to vent after reading about Celeita. I am very tired of hearing excuses and that it’s everyone’s fault instead of trying to actually SOLVE THE FREAKIN’ PROBLEM.
Yeah it’s amazing how she could buy a car if she simply got a job within walking distance first and saved a bit of money! But the logical progression is lost on people like this. They are just a victim.
Thank you, thank you! That’s exactly how I feel!
Alls I can say is…WOW…I’m at a loss for words…I’ve met some crazy folks but this chick takes the cake. Wow….
I’ve been approached dozens of times by folks asking me why didn’t I rescue horses? They figure since I have experience with horses, have 6 acres and a husband with a steady paycheck (I work part time as I am also a full time Mom, housekeeper and stable hand) that I can afford to do it. Uh…no. I don’t want to. I have no desire to rescue….then have to beg to feed them since I can’t afford it. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m VERY supportive of ligitimate rescues. I’ve helped local rescues by occationally grooming a horse or two, donating tack, hauling a horse or picking up donated hay for them without charge. I have plenty of my own horses I need to focus on caring for and I have no wish to take on something that most likely has issues of some sort. I’ve even talked a neighbor of mine (just bought 10 acres with a nice barn and she had starry dreams of helping evey poor horse in the world somehow…oh! She’d become a rescue!) OUT of becoming a rescue as she had it in her head it would be a profit making career. Then she considered breeding and I again squashed her dreams, this time of broodmares and foals galloping happily in her pasture. UGH. I FINALLY got her talked into adopting a nice rescue mare (she fostered her for a while and with a little guidance has turned her into a nice riding horse) and maybe just look at renting out her empty stalls to boarders. So why do people like this weirdo chick seem convinced they are a rescue and that they are always in the right and everyone else is MEAN? Really? I mean, you rant and rave and whine over not having money to feed the horses, and treaten to turn them loose (like that will get folks lining up to BUY horses from you), but in the same breath threaten lawsuits at those who speak up against you. If you can’t buy hay, you can’t afford to go to court. Case closed. Period. Get a clue…..
That chick is a total crazy-ass fucktard.
Totally OT, but does anyone have any general parameters to tell if you are too big for a pony? Thanks!
The general rule of thumb is that rider and gear should not exceed 20% of the horse’s weight. I generally drop that to about 15% for beginners or pack work, but might go as high as 25% with an experienced rider.
If you’re talking about a true pony (not a Quarter Horse, Arabian or TB that happens to be under 14.2) and you’re at all competent, you can easily go to 25%…even higher with some breeds (Dartmoors, for example, can comfortably carry a full grown man despite rarely hitting 12hh)…because these ponies are tough, strong and have denser bone. They’re generally quite a bit stronger than horses in proportion to their size.
However, you also need to take into account the age and level of fitness of the pony…an out of shape animal should not be expected to carry as much weight and neither should a 3 year old or a 30 year old.
wtg, ROTC:
http://www.wvstateu.edu/news/2010/10/07/rotc-induct-three-alumni-hall-fame
Unfortunately it looks like that ROTC just went by the info provided by them. Probably provided by her and maybe a quick look into her old records. They usually don’t research unless the person involved has had a felony crime. Being horored like that is a big thing, so she must have REALLY screwed up somewhere to end up like she is.
Ah yes, the “they’re just jealous” rationale. What’s next, the “I know you are but what am I?” defense?
Pretty sure those excuses stopped working in middle school.
I also have to add that people like her remind me of this guy:
http://failblog.org/2010/07/16/epic-fail-video-understanding-of-the-internet-fail-2/
I think crossed sabers was the website I went to a while back where she was slamming the sponsors and slandering them – who dropped out and left her with no funding for all the horses. I don’t blame them. I don’t think most rescues should have to depend solely on each horse being permanently sponsored. I can occasionally help with small donations here and there, but I have to take care of myself and my critter first and foremost (I have a cat haha). I do work full time and usually work OT when it is available, but do not have a horse at this moment (will have again someday – just when I can be able to financially e responsible for one. My job does not pay me well enough to afford that luury at the moment) I saw that and it really turned me off. I would never sponsor a rescue who treated the sponsors like that. You have to take care of yourself and your furry family first before you can take care of other things. made me feel like writing her a really nasty email berating her.
Oops I meant to say “Should not have to depend.” Me and my typo’s haha
WOW again! I just clicked on that link another follower provided and IF IT’S TRUE, she does have an impressive military and flight background. Then why in the hell doesn’t she have a VERY well paying job in the aviation field instead of whining for money, cheating folks, begging for hay and help and moving horses place to place? I’m baffled unless she did something that really scarred her record and so nobody will even look at her past career as an asset. And that takes alot of screwing up if thats the case. Stupid, stupid woman….if I had a background like that you can be sure I wouldn’t be sitting here with a part-time job cleaning stalls, living in Virginia while my hubby is stationed in Hawaii (yes, he’s there, we are here. Can’t afford to take the horses to Hawaii with us and then afford board there. We cannot afford to own the house here and live there and the market sucks right now so we wouldn’t even get what we owe on it if we tried selling…..Easier for us to be here and enjoy the horses and he will be transferred in another 2 years) and struggling to keep my horses for my kids!
I’d have to wonder…if its true…if she doesn’t have something going on that would cause her to fail flight meds. Vision is the obvious one, but there are other things that can cause somebody to be grounded.
I know this is waaaay off topic, but have you seen this?!
http://www.torontopetdaily.com/2010/11/ospca-fails-champion-horse.html
Also, I came across this: http://www.flyingah.com/pb/wp_6e028f37/wp_6e028f37.html
HIJACKING – “tame” bony horse (pony, really) in need of upgrade in VA
http://blacksburg.craigslist.org/grd/2072324212.html
Sad.
I’m in VA. That’s about 3 hours from me. IF I had the money, time and room I’d look into it. But I have very little of all three so it’s not within my power to help. Poor thing…
This is killing me. Was anyone able to upgrade this horse?
So I looked at the GFAS site and there aren’t a lot of horse rescues on the East Coast. Correction, there is ONE on the east coast, which is Angel Acres. While I see they have a lot of horses available I hesitate to put my beginner rider husband on a Thoroughbred.
I was looking at Gentle Giants Draft Horse Rescue? I think the horses there will be more up his alley. The “rescues” in Maine are the kind of “rescues” that criticize business people selling hay and grain for not giving it to them for free, so I’d rather go someplace further away and possibly more well known. Anyone know the good, the bad and the ugly about Gentle Giants?
I think Gentle Giants is an excellent rescue, FWIW.
GFAS’ program is new…less than 2 years old…so you will see more rescues being added.
It’s worth a lot. My husband really wants a draft or draft cross and they have some nice ones that I think would suit. I was *pretty* sure I saw or read good things about them on here but wanted to make sure. Maryland is about a 7 hour drive!
Gentle Giants is a fantastic rescue!
They do not own the property the rescue is located on, they lease it (I believe) from the landowners. They are in the process of looking for another farm to purchase, but farms are extremely expensive in the area, and most require full gutting/renovation/re-fencing/napalm (in the case of one particular farm they looked at) before being acceptable to house their horses. They have reached a point where they have to decide whether to begin a long list of changes and improvements to the current farm (which they have outgrown in five years) or move out where they can continue to grow at the incredible rate they have been since their inception.
Try Day’s End…they might have something suitable for you and I have heard nothing but good about them.
(Fair disclaimer: I’m a volunteer there)
Gentle Giants really is a great horse rescue. Everyone there cares about the horses and finding them not only a good home, but one they fit with. The horses aren’t just “warehoused”, standing around, eating hay, and looking pretty but they all learn to do some kind of job (okay, except the ones that aren’t sound for it, but you know what I mean!). Mostly, they get retrained as pleasure and trail horses and quite a few have been seen at local schooling shows (and county fair draft shows!) winning ribbons. They have also appeared in local parades and other meet-the-public kinds of events.
And yes, they’ve been mentioned/featured on Fugly several times as a rescue who’s doing it right.
(Actually, Fugly, it was you mentioning them a few years ago that turned me on to them, so thanks for that!)
Your best bet is to get into contact with Christine and talk about what sort of horse you’re interested in and set up a time to come down to meet them.
I just love those guys. It’s so good to see all the drafties being made USEFUL so that someone will WANT them. I love that they show them and everything!
According to her post on Angel Acres FB page, she has ONE person that she pays a salary to. I would think that means she has to pay Unemployment Tax Insurance, make payments for that employee to Social Security, etc.
Virgina Employer Requirements: http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/clerkofcourt/info/bus_guide06.pdf
I bet she hollers ‘Independent Contractor’ on that one.
There must be a way of checking the record?
I cannot believe half of that is true, and, knowing her track record, it isn’t.
Is that not illegal?
Seems like her thought process is about as organized as her website…..and Second Wind Wine? Seriously? I think she’s drinking a bit too much of it. Just ridiculous.
Anyone here ever hear of “Project Spirit” in Klamath Falls Oregon (not to be confused with “Cowgirl Spirit”). Supposedly very recently there was a large seizure from a private owner – name unknown (over 40 horses in very bad shape) by the authorities and also supposedly “Project Spirit” is the rescue which took them on. Project Spirit is apparently asking for support from other rescues in Oregon and some of these other rescues are in turn asking for financial support on behalf of Project Spirit through “e-mail trees” to former supporters of horse rescue.
There is very little other information that I can find on this “large seizure” and I can locate none on the “Project Spirit” website, but this rescue does not appear to be GFAS accredited. The people who run it are Chuck and Nadine Hoy. Anyone?
The louder some of these people scream, the guiltier they become, just by volume alone.
I know where I fit on the Rescue Scale. I can support rescues that are already successful and have proven by word and deed — let the record show — that they know what they are doing and they manage well their time, treasure and the horses in their care. I could not head up a rescue because that is not how I’m wired. I would believe every sob story out there and be taken advantage of.
So I do what I can. Wish I could do more, but at this point, I cannot.
People like this woman make my ill. The horses and other animals in her care are the ones that suffer.
For abracadabra2468
“Totally OT, but does anyone have any general parameters to tell if you are too big for a pony? Thanks!”
I think it’s based on weight. You shouldn’t be more than 20% of the horse’s bodyweight, if I remember right? Someone here will correct me if I’m off, I’m sure.
Sorry but Barbara Boggs doesn’t sound like the brightest damn bulb in the tanning bed either.
I don’t know how seriously I would take the GFAS; one of the first equine rescue website I looked at uses their rescused horses in summer camp programs and as lesson horses. Also no publication of finances or follow up on past horses. I understand that some rescued horses make awesome school horses, but the ultimate goal of a rescue should be forever homes for the horses they take in, not adding to their school horse string. I also find it hard to believe that GFAS has people in every continent and area to physically visit each and every rescue that applies. How exactly does that work?
I take small issue with the rescue being a rescue, summer camp, riding school and sanctuary all rolled into one. As the saying goes, ‘a jack of all trades is a master of none’. This particular rescue I looked at, recieved high ratings from this federation, but from what I saw, I wouldn’t donate.
They actually do have everybody visited…I know people who have been accredited who can attest to that.
I don’t have any issue with using rescue horses as lesson horses…beats the hell out of the much more widespread problem of doing nothing but warehousing them and doing nothing with them. Besides, it qualifies them for homes where they would perform that task. Saddlebred Rescues places a great deal of their horses as lesson horses and it has worked out great for them – trainers come to them knowing they can find an accurately evaluated horse suitable for lessons.
That said, of course being a lesson horse CAN be horrible, depending on the trainer. I myself was always a firm believer in learning to trot and post on the longe line with no reins. You get your reins AFTER you learn to post and can keep your hands reasonably steady.
Oh my. Adopters can buy their adopted horse? WTF.
From the website:
“If you are a SWAP adopter who has had their horses for at least 2 years. We are offering all SWAP horses up for sale with conditions (defined below) to qualified adopters. To get ownership of your horse you must sign a purchase agreement that will protect the horse from abuse, horse traders, slaughter and neglect and it defines minimum care of the horse (shelter, grain/hay daily according to the horses needs, turn out, fresh water, safe facilities that are made for horses, enough acreage for a horse, It also defines whether or not you can sell the horse and there is a safe selling agreement in which all buyers (if you are allowed to sell) must sign, that also protects the horse for life. ”
So someone pays an adoption fee, and houses the horse for over two years, but if you really want to own it you will have to fork over an additional $1000-5000. And that gives you and option to sell it?
This is not a rescue.
Years AGO, I came to the conclusion whoever was running Crossed Sabers was crazier then Cooter Brown, DRUNK…
I noticed that one of the requirements to be accredited by the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries (GFAS) is that the facility be a sanctuary – “allows no or restricted contact with the public”. Rescues which rehab horses and adopt them out would not qualify. There needs to be a similar organization for rescues.
Where are you reading that? They are currently accrediting rescues that are training and adopting out horses regularly – Habitat For Horses, Angel Acres, Front Range, etc.
I believe this is the paragraph you’re referring to, from the criteria for a verified sanctuary?
“In wild animal sanctuaries, no unescorted public visitation shall occur. This is not to exclude discrete, nonintrusive observation by a carefully evaluated person, such as a wildlife student, as allowed by the appropriate decision-making body of the sanctuary. No direct contact between the public and wild animals shall occur. In equine and farmed animal sanctuaries with adoption programs, supervised direct contact is allowed for potential evaluated adopters. Direct contact is also allowed for potential adopters for some limited avian and small reptiles species, solely if such adoption is in accordance with local, state/province , national, and international law and regulations. In certain rehabilitation/reintroduction programs, with young orphaned wildlife, evaluated members of the public may assist staff in carefully structured programs which ensure the safety and wellbeing of both the animals and the public. In farmed animal sanctuaries and those housing primarily domesticated animals, unescorted public visitation is allowed in certain cases where the temperament of the animal(s) in question makes such interaction stress-free and safe for both animals and humans and where the visitors are evaluated by sanctuary staff.Wild animals shall not be taken from the Sanctuary or enclosures for exhibition, education, or research purposes. Rare exceptions for education may be allowed as approved by the appropriate decision-making body of the sanctuary based on mandatory permit requirements (when it is felt there is no other feasible alternative, such as the use of a webcam, for meeting the requirements) and based on the temperament of the particular animal involved.”
If you keep reading, you can clearly see that there are much less strict requirements for domesticated animals (horses would fall under that category) as well as exceptions for volunterrs assisting the staff/potential adopters.
I think it’s pretty clear that the “no contact with the public” rule is mostly applying to true wild animal sanctuaries. As in no you can’t “go in and pet the pretty tiger, he’s so kyoooot”. Most decent big-cat sanctuaries attempt to minimize all contact, from even trained and experienced keepers, let alone the public.
It’s a perfectly reasonable standard, imo.
Also it does mention unescorted visitation. You’re perfectly allowed to have potential donors visit/host tours, you just have to accompany them.
Which IS sensible…I mean, I would not want people roaming loose around my rescue and I don’t think anyone else would want that, either. One big problem I’ve seen with unescorted (sometimes surprise visitors, so no one even knew they were there!) is touching horses fresh off the kill pen and then touching the rest. Let’s just spread strangles…and who knows what else…ugh.
Maybe they’re talking about the organizations that rescue exotics which makes sense. They have a lot of places listed for chimps, lions, elephants etc. Did you see that video with the rescued elephant who was bff’ with a dog? So sweet
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4696315n
That lady and her website have something in common…they”re both crazy! I’ve never seen a more hideous site! My god, i wanted to vomit.
That pretty much says it all. That is the kind of web site that could give a sensitive person a seizure.
Yes, and this “perfect home” thing is making the legit rescues just like the hoarders we laugh at…there is one close by to here that, because they are so full because of the “perfect home” requirement, they won’t take any horses that are being relinquished for any reason unless they are being abused/neglected/starved. Now WTF is that?!?! So let’s just wait till they’re half-dead and THEN take them and spend MORE money rehabbing them? The animal shelters are doing the same thing with dogs and cats. Just get the animals a damned home that will feed and care for them and to hell with the fancy white fences!
Fugs, I know you rarely feature places anymore to blog about, but please take this farm into consideration. I stumbled across them last night, and the website has so much bad, its just insane. From shitty studs, to grade broodmares, to people riding yearlings.
I did post about them on the message board we dont talk about, lol, but here is the link to the site. Studs are shit, foals are shit, everything is shit! Mutt puppies, a non border collie border collie stud dog, just everything!
They live in a very rural town so I guess no one has told them what the fuck they are doing is wrong. 12 foals last year (including the one that looks disabled, that did in fact end up dying) For a more indepth quick and easy point out of all the things wrong, the thread on FiSH is titled Colour> Quality, but here is the site. HELP!
http://www.colourvranch.com/index.htm
Oh, I will be happy to look into it. Honestly, it’s mostly a time element – I have a lot less time to work on the blog than I used to, and it’s much easier to comment on a news story than spend the time I used to reading all of my e-mails and checking out these low-end operations. I know people like those blogs though, and I’ll work on doing more of them (I just need an extra day in the week that no one else knows about…between Regular Job and Two Horses To Work Two Hours Away From Regular Job In Rush Hour, I don’t have a lot of day left!)
Design your own foal???? WTF? Headdesk!
holy shit… “design a foal”???? seriously???
Oh, if it’s THOSE people, they have already BEEN on the blog. Search it.
Hmm, have they had that black stallion HERDA tested yet??? Design me one of them!!!
Well, now I am not sure if this is the one I blogged about…trying to research it now…because I googled “design a foal” and was horrified to see that a number of farms thought this was a good marketing tactic.
C’mon folks…responsible breeding DOES NOT include letting any fool from the Internet with paypal mix-and-match create a life. Not ever.
Hey, thanks for the entertainment. I certainly will be sending them MY $400 for one of those fine 5/8 Border Collie, 1/4 Australian Shepherd, 1/8 Golden Retriever puppies. Hell, these dogs will probably make good pets, and I’m sure they’re cute and sweet. But you have got to be almost as stupid as the people who walk into Petland and pay $1400 for a Schnauzadoodle to shell out that kind of dough for a bonafide mutt. I can just hear the conversation:
Proud New Owners Bragging To People About Their New Super Speshul Designer-Bred Pooch: “Well, he’s an Australian Golden Border Shepherd, and he came all the way from CANADA. Very valuable dog, you know.”
Person They Just Met, Who Has A Clue: “Really. Nice mutt. Saw one just like it at the pound the other day, you know.”
So glad that I wasn’t old enough to adopt from her when I wanted. I was going to go look at her horses and adopt one but I wasn’t old enough by her guidelines. Another thing that turned me off was the massive price she put on “rescues”. Seriously?! She wanted over 10k for most of them! I don’t care if they’re warmbloods and what they used to do. There is a reason they are now with you. Their age alone really decreases the value
I have 2 great horses now and didn’t get scammed by her! Thank you fugly for posting this because I had no idea how things really were with her. I thought I had found a real rescue within the state. Guess not
I live close to this “rescue”, and have actually been there a couple times. They had WAY too many horses on what little pasture they had, and there was a major rodent problem in the barn. The horses all seemed to be in good weight, but most of them had some pretty major soundness issues. She has a pretty bad reputation in this area. It’s always the horses that lose out in this type of situation.
Well, I have all of the same awards she has except for the flight awards, (I would rather drive than fly) but I would bet that my driver badges are pretty close to her flying ones in what you have to do to get them. If she retired as a Major she missed something somewhere, it just isn’t that hard to make rank as a pilot, and since most of the time she was flying for Guard and Reserve units, that meant she wasn’t flying every day. She must be a half decent pilot to have received the lifesaving award, but she just hovered the bird, it was the rescue guys that did the tough stuff, but I will not discount her abilities, not everyone can drive a helo well. The MSM is a gimme award given to a lot of folks when they retire. To be a Major and not have at least one ARCOM and a couple of AAMs would mean that she was a real F**kup. I would also question why she belonged to so many different units and bounced between Guard and Reserve. I know for a fact that it easy to stay within the Reserve system for 20 years or more, something tells me she did something that annoyed someone somewhere. I also would like to know why she can’t get a job as a civilian pilot too.
celeita recently had her personal horses up for adoption to raise money for the rescue. she wanted $15,000 to adopt her paint horse. i sent an email asking how much it would be to buy him if the two year “probation” period went ok, and she said that purchasing wasn’t an option with him. guess she planned on taking him back eventually. and the 15K would be a donation.
i have followed her crap for years and hope this is the last gasp for her. her adoptions are way down. i believe she is in a really tight spot financially. lets hope the IRS follows through with their investigations. she recycles the horses over and over making money on them each time. some horses have been adopted five or six different times. of the 18 horses available now, ten have been in her possesion before. not so great at findimg forever homes, is she?
check out the photo of her trainer riding the 39 year old blind horse. don’t you think he has earned his retirement yet? (in the horses adopted section)
or the 21 year old VERY sway back horse that had been a dressage master and lesson horse. she available for adoption with the description of 10 more years of dressage ( which would make her a 31 year old horses at that point) and another 5 yeras of trail /pleasure riding would be ok at that point. i wouldn’t even know how to get a saddle to fit a back like the poor mare’s. (also in the adopted section).
she boasted on her site about winning the National Leadership Award by the National Republican Party a couple years ago. it sounded impressive so i googled it. it is a scam. send them $500 and you will get a “Leadership Award”.
yes, this is the house she lives in now. most of the decorative crap in the photos is now for sale in her massive on-line yard sale. the house and farm her “man” bought for her was up for sale for 1.2 million after he threw her out and she went back to this one. if you have time and want a full picture of her lunacy, here is the letter that she sent to the magistrates office when the boyfriend evicted her.
http://forums.ablackhorse.com/lofiversion/index.php?t21137.html
she also has 110 gallon water tanks in each stall. WTF??? does anyone else do this? my horses have buckets in the stalls that get filled daily so it is fresh. the stock tank is in the pasture for them to share.
That is gross. You cannot tell me she is dumping and scrubbing those. How nasty must those be?
the link to the latest article isn’t working, but it was this morning. has the paper pulled it from their site?
I don’t know this gal or her “rescue” but holy cow, could she get one more thing on that website!
Is she certifiable or what!
I wanted to speak up, as I regularly read the Fugly blog and often agree with it. We have started a new rescue here is western NY called Begin Again Horse Rescue. We have our 501c-3 and are accredited! We found a closed boarding facility which we lease, it has 16 box stalls, 5 run in sheds, and acres of fenced pasture and paddocks. We just moved in 3 months ago and already have replaced much of the old fencing, cleaned the junk out of many stalls, ran new water lines, cleaned the place right up, all with volunteers. It looks great. In ther last 3 months we have taken in 14 horses and placed half of them already! We have a protocol to follow, have a board of directors, committees for everything. In October we hosted a benefit fall foliage cruise on a paddlewheel boat which was donated and we raised $3000. We held a table at a craft show and had an open house weekend which raised another $900. in donations. We are trying really hard to prove we are legit and not just another hoarding excuse. We have a website, which is in need of editing at at http://www.beginagainrescue.org. However, our facebook page is great! So much easier to add pics and updates! Please look it up and join our friend list!
Off Topic: Can you do a blog sometime on the fact that a horse doesn’t have to be skinny to be neglected and the victim of cruelty?
I’m currently getting my ducks in a row to help a cob mare next door to to where my horse is stabled. Her and her offspring are in a nice, big grassy field. They get “adequate food, shelter and water”. Both horses are obese. The problem is, this older mare, on a nice, big, grass field, has foundered – THREE TIMES I’m told. The only reason she’s had any care at all is one of the neighbors is a vet, and he browbeats the owner into providing proper care for this mare. When I came to the facility I’m at, the mare was in a stall, because she’d foundered in the spring and the vet did his harassment so the asshole owner would get her off of the grass. After a while he put her back out on grass, we’ve had our first frosts and, not surprisingly, she’s sore again.
It looks like she may have foundered again. She’s clearly uncomfortable, if not in tons of pain, and OMG her feet!
The younger one is one of the fattest horses I’ve ever seen. She’s going to go the way of her dam if her situation doesn’t change, I think.
(please do your magic to make the images show up.)
Both horses are nearly wild, so I can’t get close enough to her to check for other issues, she looks like she might hurt somewhere other than her feet as well, since she’s not camped out front, but is all humped up and camped under behind. Sore feet are obvious when she walks. Every picture I has shows she’s not putting full weight on that near hind.
The vet and my BO help the mare as they can, but I think they kept hoping that ‘this time’ he’d get the message. Clearly this is going to continue if someone doesn’t get these horses some help.
This is the first time I’ve come across a horse in need that wasn’t already getting help. I’m trying to get my BO and the neighbor vet on my side – I want to call the authorities – ’cause it’ll be so much easy to bring this guy up on charges with the history they can provide. All I have is a couple of photos (I have more than I show here, but no useful video), and no history. Any advice is appreciated!