We have found Satan and he is Raymond Tucker
Oct 10 2010
Someone sent me this news story:
Well, where do I even begin? Raymond Tucker, who admits he is a kill buyer, has no real problem with the fact that horses were left on the highway to bake to death. In fact, his response — in the newspaper! — is that “shit happens.”
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As for his employee, how much of a moron can you be? He was at a TRUCK STOP. Plenty of people around with phones, internet access, etc. There was absolutely NO reason for this to happen, NONE AT ALL. Except that Harvey is a knuckle-dragging, bottom feeding low life piece of shit who simply did not care if they died. If someone had not seen them and called for help, all of them would have died. Well maybe he will care now when he winds up with a criminal record (if he didn’t already have one, the slaughter industry is notorious for attracting ex-felons).Â
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You know, normally I am not so hard on kill buyers. As I’ve said before, the kill buyer is just the garbage man. He is not the one who put the horse out with the trash. That is the irresponsible former owner’s fault. But this guy – he IS the garbage. He is just a completely and total asshat who doesn’t care a bit about anybody or anything but his wallet. He is angry at the eeevil animal rights activists, and he’s angry at Mexico for not letting horses into their country that are injured. (Seems to have an issue with women, too. Will probably have a bigger one if he reads this blog.)
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Oh, and Tucker admits they die all the time in transit. For those of you who think slaughter was somehow a humane way of disposing of unwanted horses, read up:
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“Tucker attributed the condition of the horses to the fact that they had been in Texas at the Mexican border for a week before they were sent back. He added that in El Paso, Texas, it costs $200 to have a dead horse unloaded if it dies during transit.
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“If you lose a horse in transit, which is common on killer type horses, why, they are going to charge you 200 bucks to unload him,” he said. “Well I’ll just leave him on my truck and I can haul him back home and bury him with a Bobcat for a lot less than 200 bucks.”
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Yep, Raymond, we wouldn’t want that $200 bucks cutting into your profit margin!  You know, I have rarely seen ANYONE make this much of an ass of themselves IN PRINT for the world to see. This is a real talent of yours, Raymond!
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So I did a little more research on Raymond. His company, as noted in the article is Tucker Brothers, LLC.  And get this – they have a BED AND BREAKFAST at their killer ranch!Â
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Well hell, I can’t WAIT to book MY next vacation there. Do you suppose the people staying there know about all the dead horses Raymond buries with his backhoe out there? And gosh, Diann doesn’t seem to mention on their web site that they ship horses to slaughter in Mexico, even though her husband freely admits to it in the newspaper.  Do you think even Diann knows that the public might not care for that detail?Â
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(Who are these women who marry guys like Raymond. Seriously?!? And you had FOUR kids with him. That is a good example of some horrifying backyard breeding.)Â
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Even before the horses got baked to death on the highway, poor old Raymond got himself targeted by those awful animal rights activists. Waaaah! Waaaah! Raymond cries that he has been targeted by the Internetz. Of course, he says EVEN MORE stuff that makes it apparent what a horrible human being he is! This guy is his own worst enemy.
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“If I kick (a horse) out to pasture … (it) gets a chance to fatten up … They either fatten up or they die … that’s just the cold hard reality of life.”
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Guess what, Raymond. The rest of the world does not accept that. All over the United States, people are being arrested and prosecuted for things like not obtaining vet care and just letting horses die. You’re next, asshat. The light has shone on your cockroach-esque self and it’s not going to stop now.Â
And Ray? Do you know WHY I write blogs like these? Because they save lives. Check out this message board thread. A horse is safe because someone googled and now knows what a monster you are, Ray.
Seriously, I hope you burn in Hell – that would be the perfect karmic ending. Just like what those horses felt in the trailer!
(If anyone knows if the survivors will be up for adoption, or when, please post. I am guessing we can find some homes for them among my readership.)Â
If you’re looking for a young OTTB and you’re in or around Nevada, this guy is Akin For Rasin and he’s a 2006 gelding. Very well bred, and only lightly raced! Contact Shiloh Horse Rescue for more info!
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202 comments to “We have found Satan and he is Raymond Tucker”
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Serial killers in isolation on death row are treated better. I vote we abandon HIM in the middle of a desert, on a random strip of tarmac, with no food, no water, and no way to get out of the situation and see how he likes it.
I don’t even had words….
On one of the appy lists I am on, this week, several were very self righteously defending slaughter. It’s not the slaughter, it’s how they get there, how they are treated and how they are slaughtered….someone was saying that they had the right to make a few bucks off their old horse if they wished. Yeah, they have have that right. And I’ll be thinking about that right when I exercise my right to choose a stud for one of my pretty girls. And I don’t choose boys who are owned by people who have no problem allowing a horse to suffer or be terrified before their planned death…..
I agree completely… I am thankfull that my mare’s breeder is responsible and took her sire back from Japan to live his twilight years in kentucky (Hansel, TB, who won the preakness and the belmonth but ended up being a crap sire as far as speed, but still didnt end up in slaughter, even after being studded at japan which is like the loose noose around a tb stud’s neck as far as the dinner plate goes)
… It is america and I suppose you have the RIGHT to make a few bucks off your horses dead body, but I think morally it’s the same “right” you have to make a buck off of your dog’s dead body, which I’m fairly sure is illegal. I do not have a problem with horse slaughter. In europe. They breed horses there for meat, not unlike cattle. I do not have a problem with all animals having a reason for their birth, including being eaten. My problem lies in desensitizing them to humans, treating them as pets, using their bodies, and then when they are unusable after 10-20 some odd years of service, sending them to an inhumane death. The travel is inhumane, but if a horse is domesticated, the whole shoot-to-a-gun-bolt is equally as inhumane. You want to eat horse meet? That’s fine. Eat a horse that was bred for meat, not domesticated to the point of overtrust, fed as a meat animal, handeled as a meat animal, and slaughtered as a meat animal. They are not lesser horses, they are MEAT horses. That’s what they were bred to do. And on a scientific level, they were not vaccinated or medicated with things that are not suitable to be consumed by humans, which many regular, non-meat-bred, american horses are.
I do have a problem with horse slaughter, actually with all animal slaughter. In my opinion, though, it is better for an animal to live a happy life before death than to be unhandled, not very domesticated, and that much more terrified at the moment of death. I do not think that it is more humane for an animal to be raised only for meat an not desensitised to humans before being killed. I feel that the more comfortable an animal is around humans, the humane the death is at human hands.
And imagine how well-adjusted his 4 kids will be when they grow up.
I hope he goes to prison for SOMETHING (I don’t even care what) and becomes someone’s bitch. That would make me happy.
Rape is never an acceptable punishment, even for POS like this guy. Just straight up cull him, keep what’s useful for people who need transplants/scientific cadavers, and write him off as a bad egg.
Yeah, who knows what someone might catch if they laid a finger (or anything else) on him?
But, who would want an organ of his, either?
I just wanted to cast my vote on the “controversial” picture in the link that you posted, fugs. That is a rotting tree. No way is that a horse corpse. I’ll admit, I haven’t seen a whole lot of large animal corpses that have been left to decompose, but I’ve seen a fair share of smaller animals. Within a few days, the only thing left is the spine and the skin. I know horses wouldnt’ get eaten that quickly, but still. That is a rotting tree. And I HAVE seen my fair share of those. In fact, there’s one in my backyard right now, and it looks about like that….
Yep, rotting tree. I’ve not seen horses in that state but have seen cows, and that’s not the corpse of a large quadruped. Also it looks just exactly like a rotting tree, which makes me wonder what hysterical ninny decided to post the picture and claim there was something controversial about it. Isn’t there enough wrong with this guy without having to make stuff up? It weakens their position and makes them look like liars.
I agree 100% – that photo simply illustrates somebody’s need to see an optometrist. I’ve seen the remains of a couple horses, and thousands of trees, and that is a decaying tree. Definitely weakened their credibility in my eyes (no pun intended).
Look behind the tree. Looks like a hole in the ground… as he’s talking about burying horses on his property…
Yeah, I saw the low spot. However, the site distinctly said the remains of a horse, not a horse’s grave. Anyway, it looks more like a puddle/low spot to me. I used to play in a sunk in “cow grave.” it didn’t even resemble a low spot like that.
How atrocious. Literally makes one ill! I’m new around here, and I was wondering if there was an email you can be reached at Fugly? There’s something I’d love to send you, and something that I think should be brought to the public eye! Thanks!
(FHOTD in: resqtb@yahoo.com but the best way to get my attention is in the comments. I am so behind on e-mail, I never seem to catch up.)
OK then — here is a heads up that I will be sending you an email message/press release about the recent auction of Hanoverian horses in Europe. This studbook requires performance tests and look what the breeders get:
“Top-priced horse was the Don Frederico/Falkland-son Dundee (breeder: Jürgen Hake, Wagenfeld – exhibitor: Heinrich Gießelmann, Barver), sold at Euro 320,000 to Bavaria. The 86 riding horses were sold at an average price of Euro 35,500, the foals changed owner at averagely Euro 6,954. [Top foal brought 50,000 euros.]”
These horses are commanding the big prices because they (adults anyway) have already had to prove that they can DO something besides look nice or having pretty colors. Way to go!
Yep. They’re breeding Ferraris. The Ferraris will find homes. Perfectly OK to breed Ferraris – even in this economy!
Speechless.
Check this out…there is so much shit down here where I live it’s unbelievable. You want to see redneck/hill billy, move south to GA and TN. I live here, I can say that. For every good horse owner, there are 10 loser ones.
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/grd/1932272206.html
I’m sorry, she doesn’t want to ‘guild’ him?! That just made me crack up!
I cant spell well but good greif, if your going to put up an ad for selling your horse wouldnt you want to make sure you seem half way intelligent?
“guild him?” Hey, maybe he’s gilded with gold, or maybe he belongs to the gold gilder’s guild. Or maybe she just doesn’t want him to be a gelded gold gilder in the gold gilders’s guild. :p
http://bham.craigslist.org/grd/1996610811.html
This man is trained well.
Wonder how much the wife would take for the husband???
That lady has good taste in horses and, it seems, in men! Now she just needs a nicer trailer…
OT: Someone is looking to sell 2 horses for $800 total. Sounds like they are looking for a good home (they care versus not caring). The price is low enough I’d worry about where they end up. Anyone in the Vermont area?
http://burlington.craigslist.org/grd/1998410013.html
This is along the same vein as the good ‘ole Tucker boys. A couple of weeks ago there was a little paint mare at one of the kill auctions. She came with her papers. I Googled the owner’s name and found his website for his, what else? Breeding Farm. Not just any farm, but one with Christian values and a picture of a golden cross and scriptures quoted from the Bible. Now in no way am I knocking any of this, please understand I have no problem with their website. But their website does reflect how their success is all because of God.
Now I know when registered horses end up at kill auctions we are not supposed to contact owners, past or current. But this one time, I couldn’t help myself. I created a new email address and wrote a very innocent email to the owner of the ranch informing him a mare bred on his (Christian) farm by the name of JS Shady Magic, was at a kill auction. Nope, never heard from him. I guess God fearing Christians can be horse killers too. Hypocrites.
Oh, it happens all the time. Look at the Dinsdales. They think they’re Christians, too. I guess they were in church while their horses were all sitting in the kill pen that Sunday. *insert eye rolling*
Don’t even get me started. I have a special kind of hatred for all of those holier than thou types who preach to every one else, yet behave in the most un-Christian ways. It makes me so frustrated. I was raised VERY Catholic, consider myself to be agnostic now and I try to live my life with kindness and and respect, yet people who shout about their Christian values seem to behave in a way that I was taught is not at all what Jesus represented.
Who the hell came up with that kind of rule? Tell ya what, if I had my name on a set of papers for a horse that turned up at a kill auction, I sure would want to be called…though I have done the same and gotten a negative response from the former owner, who didn’t care what happened to this horse that they bred. It just seems to be good logic to me to give the former owner that chance.
Someone just talked to the breeders of an auction horse today and got very valuable information about her training and history. Turns out she is a daughter of an Arabian called Prince Sawda, who was a heck of a horse – a jumper and dressage horse!
You might want to contact the people at Sawda Arabians. Their website will give their phone number. I believe they still live about 15 minutes from the ferry landing in the Port Orchard area. The Sawda people are extremely kind and compassionate, they themselves have rescued horses in truly dire situations. The Prince Sawda breeding is wonderful old “real” Arabian breeding. I knew this horse in his heyday – wonderful, wonderful. If the Sawda people knew of one of his daughters in a bad situation they probably would move heaven and earth to rescue her.
I think someone talked to them already and they are the ones who were able to say that this mare had western pleasure training and had been shown at halter. They are not the people who dumped her.
Of course you are supposed to contact owners! Just not in a condemnatory way. In the breed rescue effort I am part of, we always get in touch with breeders, owners, anyone we can find with a connection to a horse in danger — we have had a lot of successes with people stepping up to take them back or pay for them to be rescued.
If we don’t tell them, how will the good ones know, so that they CAN do the right thing? And even some of the bad ones could be shamed into changing their actions if they know they have been found out.
Amigo–I’m with you. Definitely a rotting tree. I jumped a few today while out on a trail ride.
My little brother who lives in Ft Scott (and loves his big sister enough to get involved in such things) has promised to do some digging on the possibility of the horses going up for adoption, as well as some additional dirt on Mr Assface Tucker if possible. My brother is involved in the whole rodeo circle there, and is pretty sure he can cause some (within the scope of the law, of course) business “issues” for the aforementioned Assface. Heh. Details to follow.
Don’t know if you’re in that area as well, but I grew up in Miami co and I think I remember hearing the name occasionally. Knew a girl who got horses through some sort of slaughter pipeline for retraining. If she didn’t get them from him, I’m sure it’s just one more asshat in that area… where, sadly, many people have no problem with horses as food.
Also, I’ve seen some comments about talking to KS officials about him – the local sheriff likely will pull the same shit Tucker here is doing. “the economy sucks, people are dumping them”. Send letters to the TX people urging them to prosecute, then KS govt types (Parkinson’s office, possible ag dept) saying “this is what I see of your state. This makes me want to do LESS business with your state.” They don’t always understand animal rights (many people seem to make money by burying their heads in the sands when it comes to anyone/thing’s rights), but they do understand $$$.
Fugly – I found this comment of yours disturbing.
(Who are these women who marry guys like Raymond. Seriously?!? And you had FOUR kids with him. That is a good example of some horrifying backyard breeding.)
You know nothing about their sons, how they feel about their father or his practices, what kind of people they are. For all you know they could have been abused while growing up and may suffer from feelings of worthlessness. It bothers me that these people may find this story and see themselves referred to as the product of horrifying backyard breeding. You have no idea how your comments could affect them.
Pillory the guilty if you want to, but presume others to be innocent until evidence proves otherwise.
My opinion is that I worry for the future if someone with Raymond’s beliefs is raising children. Now, those children may very well grow up to think their father is an asshat and be wonderful, kind individuals. If so, all the more power to them. But they could also grow up to be just like their father, with his same beliefs about animal treatment. If you do a little research, you will find that most people who do abuse animals (or women, or children) grew up watching that behavior. Would the world be a better place if people as nasty as Mr. Tucker didn’t reproduce? ABSOLUTELY.
I agree completely with you, Cathy!!! Most children believe what they are taught from birth. There is little chance that this guy and the woman who loves him will raise compassionate children.
Tucker’s an arrogant, ignorant, kunckledragger and no amount of punishment short of years in prison (with bubba) will get him to rethink his actions. His only reaction is to lash back at EVERYONE within earshot to make himself feel like a REAL man. No shame, no humility. And he sounds so intelligent when he speaks! Talking to him would be like trying to carve a rock with a spoon. I wonder if his wife is taking a harder look now? I feel that women who marry that type of ‘man’ are so insecure that any type of authority in their lives is what they’re attracted to. And the kids? They’re either just like dad or complete opposites. Apples either fall directly under the tree or are blown far away by the wind and sprout up a long way from home. I hope there were hurricane winds in their childhoods.
Tucker’s a great case for being ‘guilded’, maybe he’d make someone a nice backyard pet. I’ve seen the procedure enough times. Since purchasing anesthesia is illegal, it would take a few people to hold him still. Any interest ladies?
Stop. This is incredibly offensive to people who have grown up with abuse in their lives and their families. To start with, you have no idea what Mr. Tucker may be doing to his wife; assuming that she is blithely turning a blind eye is just that – an assumption. About 1/3 of all women in America will experience domestic violence or sexual abuse in their lives. That’s a lot of people. Fugly, some of your readership – like me, for instance – will have experienced (or may still be experiencing) abuse in their lives. When you make generalizations like this, you hurt, rather than help, people’s chances of integrating successfully into society and building abuse-free lives. Telling people that they are damaged goods because someone harmed them during their childhood, or because they were in a domestically violent relationship, is going to decrease self-esteem and make it even more likely that they will end up in abusive/abusing relationships.
It is entirely possible for people to escape the cycle of violence. I grew up watching violence in my family. I love my dogs and cats, and I’m fond of the horses I ride. I use positive-only training with my dogs, I am kind to my cats, I do not hurt the horses I ride. When I get angry, I go out for a run, I don’t hurt people around me. I don’t think I’m an anomaly – I know many people who have experienced abusive homes at some point in their lives, and most of them are decent people.
Everyone has to deal with stereotypes. EVERYONE. It is up to you as an individual to grow a thick enough skin that not every little thing written on the Internet or said to you bothers you.
I swear I am gonna write an OT blog on this soon. The reason we have so much suicide all of a sudden is not bullying. It is because parents are not teaching their kids to have a thick enough skin to survive life!
AGREED!! All of this coddling makes me go CRAZY!! Life is tough, and nothing changes that. You’d best be able to take the knocks and keep right on going. Period. End of story.
I’m at a rough spot in my life both personally and financially… and even though I’d like to curl up in a ball and whimper I get right back up and keep on going because that’s what my parents taught me to do. The parents that try to shelter their children so much (i.e. in sports, can’t have winners and losers anymore… WTF?) are doing such a disservice!! No wonder there the world is flooded with unprepared people. They have not been taught how to cope with disappointment and failure… WHICH IS A PART OF LIFE.
http://36andsingle.blogspot.com/
Yes and no. I grew up with bullying because I was unfortunate enough to be different. Looking back, I was truly and ugly duckling. My parents as all parents did in those days, said “ignore it” or “fight back”. Do we want to raise hothouse children who never experience adversity? No, absolutely not. But bullying can scar your soul. It can make you grow up believing that you are inferior to others, that there is something terribly the matter with you, because that’s what your peers have told you.
And I believe that it scars the bullies, too. They grow up believing that it’s ok to abuse the weak. When we see our children abusing others, we need to put a stop to it. Where are children are being systematically abused by others (not the occasional insult) we need to protect them.
You make good points. The question is, how do you protect kids other than imbuing them with better self-esteem? Because high school is like jail. The bullies will always find someplace that isn’t monitored and say things/do things.
My high school experience sucked, but I went to the barn and had plenty of friends there, so I just assumed the kids at my high school were assholes, LOL. But again, this came from having a mom who said, hey, some people are idiots, ignore them. I think what is going on with a lot of the gay teens is that even their PARENTS are bullying them about it so they have NO safe place, NO escape, NO alternative viewpoint. That’s why they snap.
I also learned early to have NO reaction, which is a SUPER valuable lesson every kid should learn. It is no fun to harass someone who does not respond. It is a lot of “fun” to harass someone who cries or yells back. This is such an important thing to learn. Think about the corporate workplace – haven’t you been bullied there? Most people have. There is usually someone trying to climb to the top by stomping on the heads of their co-workers. If you allow yourself to be sucked into the drama, you only hurt yourself. Learning to rise above it all very early is an invaluable life lesson.
I never found that having no response worked… crying certainly didn’t work either. The one time I managed to put a stop to bullying was… um, not thought out at all. I snapped completely, took one of them hostage and threatened something in a very serious monotone voice. I wasn’t THINKING at all and I honestly can’t recall what I said, it was like my brain shut right off. I must have scared them though because that group of girls never bothered me again. I would say that there are a lot of helpful books nowadays that didn’t exist when I was a kid. Bullying is always a terrible problem though and it always will be…
I remember one incident that was very funny and definitely helped…this kid had been picking on me, basically just walking up to me and saying nasty stuff. He laughed and went back to rejoin his friends at his table at lunch. I quietly followed him and removed his chair just as he was about to sit on it. His ass hit the ground and his friends HOWLED. He was now the target of their laughter and he did not like it one bit. And he actually left me alone after that!
‘course these days I’d get sued…
Wait a minute. Shletered is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally think that the world could use a little more shletering. Maybe that’s because I was sheltered. I was pretty much the epitome of sheltered. However, I think that helped me become a responsible individual – or rather, on my journey to become one. I was shletered form things like drugs, alcohol, s*x, homosexuality, etc, until I was of a responsible enough age to handle such information. Things like winning and losing, bullying, etc, you can’t really shelter kids from those, in my opinion. (and i was homeschooled.) Anyway, sorry, people beating up on sheltered people/sheltering just gets to me. Sorry for the rant…
Fugly, with all due respect, I think that Internet bullying is a different case and much worse than schoolyard bullying, where you have the opportunity to face down the bully and the audience is also limited to real time. Facebook, etc. offers a terrific screen for the coward, whereas the schoolyard bully had to at least have the guts to do something face to face. Facebook postings have much broader audiences and longer lives than real-time confrontations or gossip.
Kids have always been cruel — nowadays they have tools to be even crueler. I don’t frankly see how parents can teach their kids to have very much thicker skins for cyberbullying — I do think it would be healthier for kids not to be involved in this at all, but their peers are still going to be.
Anyway, if you do write a post on this, it will be interesting to read (and perhaps comment!).
See, I actually think the opposite. It is actually very easy to avoid your bullies online. You just don’t go to the message boards they’re at, and you can direct their e-mails straight to your junk mail. You can block people on IM. It’s very easy to rid yourself of anyone whose negativity you find senseless or hurtful if you know how to use your technology (and let’s face it, most kids know it better than their parents).
The problem comes in when the kid feels compelled to read it all and allow it to upset them. That is because the parents haven’t taught them how meaningless gossip and stuff is in the greater scope of your real life. No matter what is said about you, it has the shelf life of a mosquito in most cases. There are no rumors that “ruin” your life. Talk only ruins your life if YOU let it by taking it too seriously and allowing it to control you, especially if you let that happen to the point where you take your own life. The world isn’t going to get nicer so kids have to learn that YOU control how much other people’s words affect you. No one else.
Whereas schoolyard bullying, which I certainly dealt with, as do many kids, you can’t avoid. I got pushed down stairs, punched, etc. and there is no way to protect yourself. The teachers DO NOT do anything. And this was in the ‘burbs!
I had a case of attempted Internet bullying, recently. After I had fallen around laughing at the almost unreadable attempt at an e-mail I contacted the person involved and told them I thought that a child had got hold of their computer. I could almost feel them frothing at the mouth as they replied, and them after that, I just pressed “access denied” as it was no longer amusing.
If it is a child being bullied then the parents need to get off their backsides and do something. If an adult then you really need to grow up, press “ignore” and get on with your life…
I’m not so sure.
When I was bullied as a kid, I hit the bully back harder.
A kid who does that these days…gets suspended, possibly even expelled. The message sent is ‘The bully can do whatever s/he wants and you just have to take it’…small wonder some of these kids are resorting to suicide. Because even if the PARENTS tell them to stick up for themselves, verbally or even physically, the school policy is that you don’t. Threats of suspension and expulsion don’t stop the bullies: They don’t want to be there anyway. They stop the victims from fighting back or reporting it.
In school some kid walked up to my husband and punched him in the face without ANY provocation. So my husband beat the shit out of him. My husband was suspended for a week. The guy who randomly punched him in the face for fun? Did not get punished because the principal felt he had “learned his lesson”.
Everyone has to deal with stereotypes. EVERYONE. It is up to you as an individual to grow a thick enough skin that not every little thing written on the Internet or said to you bothers you.
I swear I am gonna write an OT blog on this soon. The reason we have so much suicide all of a sudden is not bullying. It is because parents are not teaching their kids to have a thick enough skin to survive life!
It’s not the stereotype that’s the problem, it’s the privileged ass perpetuating it. The offended party isn’t the one who needs to shape up and control themselves, it’s the person being an ass. You don’t get to decide who will or should be offended by what you say; you get to decide if you are going to change your behavior now that someone has pointed out how you are hurting them. You are in control of yourself and your actions, learn from your mistakes. You have the right to say whatever the hell you want on the internet and in the USA, but you also own the consequences of those words, and no amount of hand-waving will dispel that someone was pointing out the problems with your choices and you responded with dismissal and target blaming. That’s not listening.
You might want to look up some of the circumstances surrounding those publicized suicides before you start bleating off about them. Why should the world conform itself to the cruel and antagonistic in order to survive? Why should these kids wear a grin when they’re forced to eat shit for years on end? Where is the bully’s responsibility not to be an ass to others? Target blaming again.
I am not cool with living in a world where how short a girl’s skirt is is more important than why that guy thought he could rape her, or whether those kids could have bucked up again tomorrow and the next day and the next day when they knew there would be no help from anyone in the community, especially the bully’s parents in training their kids not to be jackholes. The perpetrator of injustice is the one who needs to grow up and GTF over it, whether they’re as severe as a murderer or as light as someone not thinking about the ramifications of their words. There would be a lot fewer stereotypes judging people if PEOPLE STOP USING THEM.
Sorry, but when you compare rape to verbal bullying, I think you’ve gone off the rails with your argument.
As much as I respect you and what you do here, Aficat’s got a good point, and I’m a little disappointed to see you brush it aside like so. The point is, bullies do need to be held accountable for their actions, just as much as much as victims need to be held accountable for their reactions. It is also as much the stereotypist’s responsibility to stop using stereotypes, as it is the stereoyped’s responsibility to break stereotypes.
OK, so who is a bully?
What constitutes bullying that should be punished in some way in your world?
I would say physical attacks or physical menacing. But a lot of people would say words.
OK, which words?
Is it ok to post warnings online about the guy who raped you? Even if he denies it and the cops couldn’t prove it?
Is it ok to say you think the President is an incompetent twit or should that be illegal because you might hurt his feelings? What if a President killed himself because he read mean stuff about himself online?
Is it ok to protest in front of the home of a child molester when he moves into your neighborhood? Or is that bullying him?
What if a group of gay youth get together and harrass, online and off, a popular kid who has made homophobic remarks to them, and that kid kills himself as a result?
Here’s how it usually works:
When you AGREE with verbal criticism of another individual, the person doing it is AWESOME.
When you DON’T agree with verbal criticism of another individual, the person doing it is a BULLY/CYBER-BULLY.
When you think the target is a BAD person, then criticism of that person is stuff that NEEDS TO BE SAID!
When you think the target is a GOOD person, then criticism of that person is NOT FAIR/MEAN/NEEDS TO BE STOPPED!
Give me a break. We have freedom of speech for a reason. Everybody’s entitled to their say. If you think what they’re saying is stupid/offensive, you’re entitled to say something back to them. That’s how it works.
I don’t actually think much of what you’ve said on this blog is bullying. But I do think that statements like “Everyone has to deal with stereotypes. EVERYONE. It is up to you as an individual to grow a thick enough skin that not every little thing written on the Internet or said to you bothers you,” are – though they have a kernel of truth – somewhat short-sighted. Yes, it is my responsibility (and the responsibility of others) not to get up in a tizzy over every little nasty thing someone says about us. But that doesn’t mean that the person who said the nasty thing isn’t also responsible for their actions. The stereotypist is as much at fault as the wrongly stereotyped, the bully is at just as much fault as the bullied – if not more so. The bully makes choices just like the victim.
Are these things swayed by opinion, circumstance and perspective? Yes, but just because it’s not a wholly objective issue doesn’t mean it’s not worth addressing.
“Give me a break. We have freedom of speech for a reason. Everybody’s entitled to their say. If you think what they’re saying is stupid/offensive, you’re entitled to say something back to them. That’s how it works.”
This is my say. I am trying to be respectful.
In response to another line of conversation:
“I also learned early to have NO reaction, which is a SUPER valuable lesson every kid should learn.”
Very true! It does not always work, however – the same goes for every other thing that bullied kids are supposed to do. I beg you to read this man’s story, I truly plead with you. It is not always so simple.
I read the story. How VERY sad that it took so long for his parents to put him in another school!
Again, though, now we are talking about PHYSICAL violence which absolutely SHOULD be punished and treated as assault. No one should have to fear for their personal safety just to get an education, and unfortunately that happens a lot. My argument is that speech should not be treated the same way as physical assault. Two very different things.
And what of filming someone engaged in the act of sex between consenting (college-age) adults without their knowledge, and broadcasting it online without their consent? Where does that fall on your words vs. physical actions spectrum of punishable bullying? It is exactly what happened in one of the recent cyber-bullying cases.
I think it’s a violation of privacy and the school and the perpetrators (who were, of course, adults) should be held responsible for violating privacy.
They should NOT be held responsible for the person’s death because the person reacted the way he did. That is a very dangerous precedent to set.
I am sorry that the young man involved felt so much embarrassment about the incident. I think this is a sign our culture needs to change to where we don’t feel so much shame about perfectly normal activities like having sex (straight or gay, who cares?)! If we had a more European attitude about sexual activity, I do not think kids would be jumping off bridges about theirs being revealed. Just MHO.
To better clarify my thoughts: The cyber-bullying which you have dismissed as harmless, and meaningless words.
Also, why do you express more indignation over the fact that the bullied author was not removed from the school earlier than over the fact that the perpetrators were never punished? It is almost certain that they simply moved on to another target when he left – yet you are only “VERY sad” that he wasn’t moved quicker,* not “VERY sad” that the bullies never met justice. You mentioned punishment as an afterthought. This is very questionable thinking, to a reader. (And it is the speaker’s responsibility to convey him- or herself’ clearly.)
*Which, as someone who was rapidly moved from school to school for unrelated reasons (Navy kid, we moved a lot), messes with your education quite a bit. It is not always so simple, especially when the author had already been moved around before. Furthermore: He shouldn’t have had to have left. The bullies should have been punished immediately, and it is this victim-blaming thought process which hindered that.
It’s not an afterthought. Obviously, assault should be punished, whether the perpetrator is a minor or not. I’m one of those who believes in adult penalties for teen offenders for most things – I’m not at all a “soft on crime” type.
It has nothing to do with a victim-blaming thought process. Like I said before, school is like prison. No matter how closely you watch, the odds are someone who is intent on hurting someone else will have a chance to do so. The smart thing is to go to safety. If an attacker were chasing you, wouldn’t you run?
THANK YOU AFICAT FOR BEING THE VOICE OF REASON.
Bullying is bullshit.
I had a friend who was a LITTLE BIT punk rock, small for his age, atheist, and stuck in a Texas high school. The ENTIRE football team (a.k.a. Untouchable Gods Of The School), who were really into F.C.A., made his life hell, and finally beat his face into a pulp against a locker while they chanted SAY YOU LOVE JESUS!!!!
Cathy, you really have no idea what some people go through in life. You’re like a lot of child-free, self-made, strongly independent and effective professionals who get overtaken by self-righteousness (often by surprise), and who aren’t into self-reflection or compassion for “different” – but equally effective, and often innovative – thinkers. You’re good at outing horrible cruelty cases, but you’re getting increasingly blinded by your reputation and following.
In other words, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Yes, I do have an idea. During my school years I was pushed down a flight of stairs, punched numerous times, sat on ’til I couldn’t get air, chased home by boys who were throwing rocks at me, and verbally harassed including one particular cheerleader telling me if she looked like me, she’d kill herself. Do not tell me I do not know what it is like.
You just don’t like that I survived that and have a different idea from you about how best to deal with it.
I have to agree! I can speak for myself only. I lived in a house of hell while growing up. Not entirely physically abusive but much mental abuse yet I always fought to maintain a level head. I grew up KNOWING that I did not wish to repeat that cycle. With all the verbal anguish I was taught compassion not only for people but for animals as well. I was always a wall flower type and took alot of bullying as a teenager because I was different from others. I toughened up and learned that not everything people say applies to me. I got tough! I thought that being tough would protect me. Then when I was 18 I was physically and sexually assaulted by a stranger. I was beaten and left for dead. I survived a horrific challenge. I decided I could let the monster bury me even after I recovered or I could take the bull by the horns and rise above it. I chose to rise and live with hope and dignity.
My point is that every woman that faces an abusive challenge has a choice. You can let the abuser win you over and bury you…or you can walk away and win.
I think it is safe to assume (yea, I know ass+ u+ me) that Raymond fuck face is a bigot that verbally abuses his wife. Men like that typically marry women that allow them to continue to be bigotted assholes. If they married any other type, they’d have their asses kicked up around their ears. Which would make for a great picture of him.
Also, I don’t find any of the talk about abusive husbands and raising shithead kids offensive at all. I watched what I did not want in life and made damn sure I got what I wanted in a husband and raised saintly children…boys at that.
If you don’t like your situation, then you are the one who has the power to change it.
Excuse me if I rambled and wandered off topic….must have been my upbringing. Think I’ll go fix a drink
A big AMEN to that! You are the only person that can control whether or not YOU are the victim. If it’s physical, leave! Will it be hard? yep! Will it suck? yep! Will you have to give some things up? yep yep yep! GTF over it and move on! I was there and it hurt and it was hard and I had to gather the pieces and put them all back together, alone. It sucked so bad some days I wanted to crawl in a hole. I didn’t, I made MYSELF a promise. I agree with you wholeheartedly that only YOU can decide your future and whether or not it’s worth it to better your situation.
If its online, in any way, shape or form then turn off the damn computer! Done and done! If it’s happening to your children and you aren’t aware, why not? They are your children, you should know what is going on on their facebooks, etc. If you don’t, well then shame on you! My daddy always said this “It doesn’t matter if they’re talking about you good or talking about you bad, they ARE talking about you. This means you have left a mark on their lives.” Anytime I had someone call me a name or spread a rumor about me, he would repeat this and I took it to mean that they clearly didn’t have enough going on for themselves so they had to find something or somebody else to focus on. He taught me that rumors or taunts only have energy to live if the focal point of that rumor or taunt gave it that energy. When unresponded to, left to it’s own, it will fade and die. You cannot disprove a negative so why try. Why not just try to leave as many positives as possible behind, THOSE live on their own energy!
Stereotypes are based on facts. If you don’t like what you read here, sometimes I don’t, turn off your computer, go to another blog or just sign out for the night and have a glass of wine. Check back tomorrow and there will be a whole new conversation. Just have a reboot.
It’s not always that easy to walk away. Bullying can start as early as kindergarten. Not all families have the option of moving a child to a different school and some children seem to be bullied wherever they go. Not all bullies are children: People mostly think of peer bullying, but sometimes the bully is a teacher, a coach. I was bullied by my riding instructor. My parents saw it as her ‘teaching style’ and refused to allow me to change stables because she was cheap.
Sometimes the bully is the father, the mother, or a sibling.
Adults can also be bullied. I’ve been bullied by a supervisor. I couldn’t afford to quit (I and my husband would have been evicted) until I could find another job. I was bullied to the point of tears and depression for six months because I was doing what I had to do for my family.
And victims of spousal abuse are those least likely to be able to walk away. It is far from unknown for the abuser to kill the spouse if he or she attempts to leave (and yes, dammit, men can be and ARE victims of spouse/partner abuse, both heterosexual and homosexual). There are also psychological issues. Many abused spouses only start to fight back when and if the partner starts on the kids. Some people just seem to be attracted to abusers. An abusive spouse IS a bully. Its the same thing.
I take issue with anyone who says you can just walk away. It’s not always that easy.
Take issue with someone who hasn’t done it maybe, but I had to, although my walking was from a hospital room with my jaw wired shut. Yes, you can walk away, NO it is not easy. There hasn’t been a mention of easy anywhere in any of these blogs. I couldn’t change schools, or towns, etc. What I DID have were parents who were aware of my movements and actions. They were not helicopter parents, opposite actually. I got bullied, try being the tallest kid and a girl at that from 2nd grade to 10th. It’s is absolutely the values and behaviors that your parents instill in you that will help you get through. My father did not coddle me but he did support me. I didn’t always walk away and lucky for me, I could FIGHT (had brothers) but that always got me in dutch at home. My parents knew EVERYTHING and they LISTENED and yes, they worked and we had a 200 acre horse farm outside of their full time jobs, there were also 6 kids. It’s the difference between a dedicated parenting style, one that raises on morals, ethics and good hard work rather than time outs and always getting to win.
It isn’t easy to drag your butt out of a hole that you get yourself into. I didn’t see it coming and when it did, boy, did it hit hard. I wsn’t raised to think abuse was okay, got my share of spankings though. I just made a bad choice, one that cost me dear. It ain’t easy, but it ain’t impossible. The many resources available these days make it downright stupid NOT to save yourself. As far as bullying and children, its time for parents to pull ther heads out of their 4th point of contact and start listening. quit with the nannies, the babysitters, etc. We were not rich, parents had two very full time jobs and a whole lot of work to do at home and yet, they still took time to tune in. Driving your kid to soccer is NOT tuning in. Sitting with them and listening, helping them make decisions, eating dinner from a plate and not a sack, little things. It didn’t make us perfect in our family but we all turned out pretty okay.
Because I didn’t clarify, it wasn’t a bully that put me in the hospital, it was my husband. I had to change my name and leave the state to escape a well-connected, wealthy man. Easy isn’t what it was. It was scary, it sucked! I did NOT get depressed, I did get sad but I don’t medicate what is natural, its called getting the blues It’s called being scared shitless. It’s called survival.
Again, with bullies as an adult, you control that. If you can’t leave then you have to make a decision to buck up and bounce it off. Only you control how much a persons insults and bad behavior (that isn’t physcal) gets in. Verbal abuse is horrible but unless you are married to that person, there are paths to take to fix it or you can just shut it out. Even with marriage, there is an abuse shelter on every corner, they might not be able to provide you with a BMW but they will save a life or two. We do things sometimes in order to get by, been there done that, these are the times that the thick skin mentioned ealier is so important to pull out and wear every day.
Oh careful, be so careful. You could be opening up a nasty can of worms bigger than hell itself. Though its true that one behavior trait can beget another and so forth (and most likely will) suicide is a whole other ballgame and is NOT based on ones abililty to take on a thick skin or not. Bullying these days takes on a whole different level than it did when I was growing up. Now in manny aspects like “Cyber bullying” is a joke. If your being bullied by someone on the internet then turn off yoru Damned computer, get another internet service etc. Physical bullying nowdays goes way beyond what we older folks know about bullying someone. The feelings of a person being bullied can take on to the opposite side. Parents not being supportive, not being there and even adding to the situation by being abusive or bullies to thier kids can definatly add to suicide problems. Coddling is one thing but there is an opposite side of it. Hoplessness can be a ruthless contender in life. Just becarefull what is said in the regards of such a subject.
But I think a thick skin can ABSOLUTELY help you stay positive in life. Don’t you?
I mean, a thick skin, emotionally, is just that. Things that might hurt person X don’t hurt you, so they don’t affect you, and they don’t contribute to depression.
Depression that comes from mental illness/chemical imbalance is a whole different thing but the news topic du jour has been pretty simple: Kids are mean to Victim, Kids do nasty things to Victim, Victim commits suicide as a direct result.
Having the ability to say “fuck ‘em” and mentally move on WOULD prevent that kind of suicide. It’s a coping skill and I do not think it’s being taught well enough these days.
*tilts head* Is that really a skill that can be TAUGHT though? I think being able to just shrug things off is a function of maturity. Children take things more to heart.
I think, and this is just my perspective, is that if the rates of teen suicide are going up its because homes are no longer havens. My high school experience was horrible and has scarred me for life. I don’t dwell on it but I avoid certain situations completely… well. Anyway, I didn’t survive by developing a tough skin, I survived because home was the place I could go, relax, recharge and if necessary snuffle on my mum’s shoulder. I did contemplate suicide a few times and I’m sure perfectly nice parents have lost children that way, but how many kids feel they have no haven at all? If home had been another unpleasant place I probably would have killed myself. There would have been no point in living. Just my 2 cents…
I think it can be taught. I think that because my mom taught it to me, by emphasizing that not everybody’s opinion mattered, that it was normal not to be liked by everybody, that the only way to please everybody was to be a doormat and that was undesirable, LOL, and that sometimes the reason someone was mean to you had nothing to do with you – that it was because they had a bad day, were having a hard time at home, didn’t feel well, whatever.
I just wonder sometimes if kids are getting these lessons? I agree with you that homes are not the safe havens they need to be. Also, if a parent realizes their kid is miserable at school, for heaven’s sake, find another place for them where they can be happy. In my case, it was the barn. Problem solved. School sucked but it was something to be tolerated ’til I could head off and join my barn friends. Whatever your kid is into, other kids are into it too and even if you’re the unpopular kid at school, it doesn’t mean you’ll be the unpopular kid at the barn or in 4-H or community theater or whatever. Especially if you have some kind of talent to pursue – if parents would just help their kids find a place where they DO fit in, it would definitely help prevent these deaths!
Psychological research has demonstrated over a huge range of subjects that people who suffer from depression and are more likely to commit suicide almost globally have similar paradigms. Things are “their fault”, things “won’t improve no matter what I do,” something went wrong because “I was not smart enough/fast enough/good enough” etc. Researchers who have looked at a field called “positive psychology” (basically, why happy people are so happy) have found that these happy subjects tend to make different attributions- things like “ok, so I failed the test, but it was totally the teacher’s fault. I’m smart,” or “I’m usually right, it’s the other people who are usually wrong”. Even if this is not true in either circumstance, (maybe they really did suck at the test), they still feel better about their life and themselves and end up being happier in the end. It’s a lot more complicated than that, but that’s the gist of all these studies. Most interestingly, it seems like these paradigms are formed at a very early age by parent/guardian guidance-SO- to get to my point, maybe all the disagreement above has to do with this fundamental formation of world views. FHOTD, you sound like you had some good input at an early age; this is evident in that you realized as you were being bullied that those people were stupid jerks and you were the better person. Other writers seem to display a sensitivity to this topic that I find fascinating, because clearly their reaction is very visceral and emotional. Perhaps they were not lucky enough to receive such positive formation of their beliefs at a young age and struggle with how they attribute these acts to this day.
I think that is a very good analysis!
One of two things happen to abused people: 1. They suck up to their abuser to try to make things better for themselves (apple falls directly under the tree) 2. They move heaven and earth to get away from it (the apple falls and blows far, far away)
I take offense when someone accuses someone of being “psycho” (my mother’s bipolar disorder was undiagnosed until I was 23, just one of my many issues and trying to live with a parent who is psychotic is NOT fun and I find casually slinging the word around to be ignorant) or says “They must have a personality disorder”. Guess what? I have borderline personality disorder because of the shit I went through in my life. I also have PTSD because of what I went through. For some reason (that I can’t begin to figure out yet) I didn’t curl up in a corner and die, I survived. And I moved on with my life and I have mental health professionals that can’t believe I’m not an alcoholic or drug addict after what I went through. Know why? Horses. Horses saved my ass.
So I think that saying “This guy is fucking crazy, his wife and kids are probably abused too” is not derogatory towards anyone but HIM. And then there’s always people like me who are not afraid to say “I was abused, I escaped, and I survived” because it gives other people HOPE that they can escape too. It gives people the HOPE that they will be strong enough and find it in themselves to get out of a bad situation and move on.
What about the readership that thinks this kind of behavior is NORMAL? What about the little girl that grew up watching her dad beat the shit out of her mom because she didn’t have dinner ready exactly on time and thinks that’s the way things are supposed to be and it’s okay to let her boyfriend treat her like shit? Just like alcoholism, someone in a bad relationship won’t get out of it unless they know they’re IN a bad relationship. How do you know Mr. Joe Blow’s wife down the street doesn’t think that her husband locking her in a closet is normal? I have to remind myself CONSTANTLY that all kids don’t grow up sleeping fully dressed so they can escape in the middle of the night if their mom comes to kill them. I remind myself that OTHER mothers wouldn’t justify their brother’s behavior when their 12 year old daughter tells them that she was molested by that same brother. Growing up I thought it was NORMAL for my parents to be like that. I thought that I <– was the screwed up one. I thought the only kind of abuse was the kind with broken bones and emergency room visits and not getting food.
If someone is a victim of abuse and reading this blog I would hope that instead of seeing "Oh, gee, they're saying my spouse/child/parent/coworker/car dealers behavior isn't right I'm screwed up" they will read "It IS wrong what that person is doing…I deserve better! I'm not going to put up with this anymore!"
Your post seems to be in reply to mine. I did not say that ALL people who are raised by abusing parents then become abusers, just that most children emulate what they see and are taught from birth. This can be in the form of being abused or in the form of abusing others, ie: animals. The cycle of abuse can be broken, but there is a reason that the phrase “cycle of abuse” has been coined. Ask any social worker about it. Am I just like my parents? Hell no. Did I take the values that they instilled in me and adapt them to the way that I see the world? Hell yes. Honestly, I wasn’t even commenting on child abuse (I have no idea if this guy abuses his children), but rather the core values that his children are being taught by his actions.
For the record, I am the product of abusive parents and several destructive, abusive relationships. My mother was (is) a narcissist, I never knew my biological father, and my step-father was a big flake, and still is. Both were alcoholics. I raised my baby sibling by myself from the time I was 9 because my parents didn’t care enough to do it themselves and my sibling would have suffered horribly had I not stepped up.
I’ve been in relationships with much older men who have broken my skin, my bones, my heart, and prompted suicide attempts on my part.
I’M STILL ALIVE. And Cathy’s statements do not bother me because she’s RIGHT. Women that are with abusive men CHOOSE to stay and be abused. There is almost always opportunity to run and seek help and find safety, if they only take the opportunity. I survived my mess, because I finally realized what kind of power CHOICE is.
And you know, I was with some Class AA (for Abusive Asshole) men, one even broke my dog’s ribs. And I thought as long as they said they loved me, it was something I would just Have To Deal With. What happened to me, and to my animals, was halfway my fault because I refused to grow some courage and GTFO.
And before that? My mother used to stand me up against the wall in the backyard while she beat my dogs with a board to punish me for being a kid. (Bad grades, not doing the dishes, talking back, sneaking out…) But eventually… I GREW UP. My dogs don’t know what it’s like to get SLAPPED let alone beaten.
Kids grow up, as was stated, either right in the shadow of their parents, or WAY FAR AWAY. No, Cathy’s statement did not offend me. She’s right. People need to stop being offended by EVERYTHING. It’s STUPID.
I was absolutely, 100% stupid not to bring my home abuse up with teachers or counselors or friends’ parents. I was 100% stupid for staying with abusive boyfriends. But eventually, something clicked, and I grew up. I have a wonderful husband, I love ALL animals. And I could not be a farther throw away from my biological family if I TRIED. Abuse is NOT the end of the world; it’s a launching point.
I think your attitude rocks, and has probably saved your life.
Thanks for writing that – someone may read it and realize they can choose not to let other people destroy them, too!
Just awesome!! I love that you realized that you had a CHOICE and used it…
http://36andsingle.blogspot.com/
Totally agree, there’s no way the children and/or wife could not be involved to some degree. In the UK, we had the biggest and worst neglect case due to ‘horse trader’ (read kill buyer) James Gray.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8038249.stm
ALL members of the family were charged
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/297726.html
Just to add to above: (and fancy having 11 counts of cruelty against you by the age of 17 for James Jr.- doesn’t bode well for the future.)
“The farm’s owner James Gray, 44, and his 16-year-old son( now 17), also James, were convicted of nine counts of causing unnecessary suffering to animals and two charges of failing to protect animals from pain, injury, suffering and disease.
Julie Gray, 41, and her two daughters Jodie, 26, and Cordelia, 20, were cleared of the charges of causing unnecessary suffering but convicted of failing to protect animals from pain, injury, suffering and disease.
An additional charge of causing unnecessary suffering was dropped due to a lack of evidence.
Judge Vickers said there was evidence Spindles Farm was being run as a joint enterprise by the family, despite James Gray senior’s testimony in court he was solely responsible for running it.
But it emerged wife Julie was named as the secretary for Gray’s Horses Limited, the company registered at Spindles Farm.
James senior also said his son and two daughters were responsible for running the farm in his absence when he applied to have the seized animals returned to him before a criminal prosecution was brought against him.”
“Would the world be a better place if people as nasty as Mr. Tucker didn’t reproduce? ABSOLUTELY.” What you are close to preaching here, with this comment, is eugenics. It is an abhorrent idea, and even worse in practice. While I am not much in the way of a flag waving patriot, I am deeply thankful to the uniquely American idea that absolutely anyone is free to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make something of their lives. Some manage to change their lot in life, some do not. But they are free to try, and it is in our ideals not to begrudge them that chance, and, more to the point within this context, not to begrudge them their existence. If our ideal is that every equine life should be cherished and appreciated, than should we hold any less of an ideal for every human life? Our founding fathers got it right when they proclaimed that we all were created equal. We may be born into varying circumstance, with varying intellect and talent, but we are all born of equal worth. It is the great gift of this country, of this civilization, that we are free to make good on that worth. Truly, it is barbarous to deny this ideal as you have done here. That such ideas take root and find popularity does not bode well for our future.
Let’s not get all drama queen. I did not say Mr. Tucker should be forcibly gelded. It is merely MY OPINION that many groups of people should not reproduce and the world would be a better place if they didn’t. I have met quite a few children from abusive families who do not understand why they were created just to have to live in a hell hole, and who thought their own parents SHOULD NOT have had kids. That is my argument here.
By the way I think the idea that we are ALL created equal is a piece of religion-based tripe. Obviously, we are not. We are given equal RIGHTS in America, under the law. There is a logical difference there. I do not think all horses have the same worth, either, I merely think that none should die in a slaughterhouse, be tortured, or be starved.
@ Comment about abused kids wondering why they were born: Right on the money
And we only have rights in this country if you aren’t white and aren’t a woman. I work in a corporate facility where as a white woman I am forced to endure sexual harassment and gender discrimination. But because the people treating me like crap are Black (everyone in the rest of the world uses that vernacular, I don’t mean it in a disrespectful way) or have a visible disability or is a guy that makes it okay. My husband was (by definition) assaulted by someone at work. They were all about to discipline the guy until he played the “You’re only going to discipline me because I’m black.” The whole thing got dropped. Here I thought he was going to be disciplined for grabbing my husband and shoving him…
Hurray affirmative action! Employers are so terrified to let go of their “minority” employees that they get away with – literally, at least in Maine – breaking the law.
Kind of OT, but blaming Affirmative Action is a pet peeve of mine. An employer who fears a potential wrongful termination lawsuit from a minority/protected class employee is not doing so because of Affirmative Action. Further, the company should seriously consider re-evaluating their adopted HR best practices and company policies. An effective performance appraisal program and disciplinary process that is consistently adhered to and well documented will improve the legal defensibility of termination decisions.
http://www.dol.gov/ofccp/regs/compliance/aa.htm
http://www.maine.gov/ag/about/equal_opportunity_policy.html
They’re not doing it because of A.A…they are doing it because they can’t afford a lawsuit. Everyone is afraid of lawsuits…lawsuits are EXPENSIVE.
The real problem is that most lawsuits settle, even frivolous lawsuits. So if entity X has money and person Y is pissed at them, there is really no reason at all for person Y NOT to sue. Odds are they will walk away with money!
I’ve worked in litigation for over 15 years and, trust me, people will sue for the dumbest shit…and companies cave and pay to make them go away because it is just too expensive to prove the person is full of it.
You are ABSOLUTELY correct that actually documenting performance, employee disputes, warnings, etc. (which many, many companies simply do not do) is the way to protect yourself. It’s definitely the way to WIN a lawsuit. Unfortunately it does not protect you from the EXPENSE of a lawsuit. There’s the problem, and it’s why Litigious Larry tends to get his own way at work.
I’m not sure if I was unclear in my message, or I am reading your comment wrong. My response was to Kates_Aidan’s comment about Affirmative Action being the reason for not terminating the aggressive minority employee. My point about AAPs is that they are not quotas or a guarantee employment for minority employees. I could get in to too much detail, but I added the links instead.
People will absolutely sue over the stupidest shit (this is my official HR opinion, btw). Companies are afraid of the expense and bad press, so they usually settle to make it go away. With few exceptions, this is also the course of action taken by poorly managed companies. Avoiding the problem will only make it worse. Allowing an aggressive employee to bully management because he threatens to sue can have greater long-term impact on productivity, morale and attrition beyond the cost of a lawsuit. Bullying behavior is not something I would back down from. Having detailed documentation and witness accounts of the issues and disciplinary actions will carry a lot of weight if correctly handled. The little phrase, “further disciplinary action up to and including termination” can be a wonderful thing. Consistently applying policies and taking great care around precedents can do a lot to increase defensibility too.
It definitely depends on the circumstances. If the HR department and management are disorganized and inconsistent with a haphazard process for making hiring and termination decisions, then settling will probably save the company from going bankrupt from losing the lawsuit. The organization will join the ranks of other large disorganized companies that move crappy employees from team to team instead of terminating them while continuing to wonder why profits are slipping and there are so many problems with their products. /hr babble
On topic: Thanks for outing this dbag. Since calling him names won’t help, maybe making his dbagness widely known will hurt him where it counts – his wallet. That should get his attention.
“Let’s not get all drama queen…”
OMG! I have jump back on my soapbox after that remark:
I say that very phrase about how some people should not reproduce. That goes for any one that shows no compassion for any living thing including this Earth or the stewardship of it. It sounds to me that Raymond el Fuckface has no show of any of it therefore is more than likely not capable of teaching it to offspring to better this society we live. I believe there are many people (term used loosely) that do a lousy job rearing children and should have been taken out of the gene-pool at puberty.
You bring up the point that Fugly wants to protect each Equine life from suffering and imply that she does not want the same for the children of this monster. I feel like you have missed the point here. Her opinions on horse breeding and people breeding seem to be fairly consistent. Only breed the best to the best. If the bottom feeders breed, then the offspring have a much harder time finding a successful future. Once these offspring are created, though, they deserve to live a life free of suffering.
That’s the message I’m getting… I’m not sure how anyone else is getting a different message here… Thank you however, for pointing it out clearly to those of the readership here that don’t seem to be catching the point.
I think there is a facet of this whole breeding thing that is kind of “off” in this conversation… there are many structural parts of an offspring that are the result of good breeding, but the brain is far, far more complicated than that. Breeding the best to the best has nothing to do with how a person (or horse) will turn out mentally. I get a good laugh when people say they want to breed their mare or stallion because they have a “good mind”… that really makes almost no sense, genetically speaking. While it can definitely be argued that there are some genetic components to personality, it seems that a greater part of intellect and personality are determined after birth. Based on this, I think it is fair to say that there are people who should definitely never RAISE children, but it is inaccurate to say that an asshole like this guy will produce inferior offspring simply based on their genetic makeup.
Seems to me she’s pillorying his wife, not his children. And I agree with her. I wish women picked husbands with half the thought they used picking a stallion for their mares (and they do that badly enough). If the guy is worthless, why would you want to make more of him? Regardless of the extent you believe personality is nature or nurture, these kids have an uphill road to walk.
And frankly if he wants his kids to be proud of what they read about him on the internet, he should try to be someone they can be proud of. It’s not the rest of the world’s responsibility to pretend he’s a nice guy for the sake of his kids.
Want to know who my dad was? My dad was ex-Navy with a bad temper. The kind of guy who would kick a six year old in the ass with a steel toe boot for playing with the hose on a hot summer day. The kind of guy who got mad that my sister had food in her room, assumed it was for the cat and spent no less than 45 minutes looking for the cat, screwdriver in hand, determined to drive it into her skull and kill her. The kind of guy who let the cat suffer with hyperthyroidism and slowly die over TWO YEARS because he didn’t want to pay for the vet to put her down and “my sister would be upset”.
I can pretty much promise you that those kids already think they are pieces of shit not worthy of life and they either kiss his ass to try to get some kind of kindness out of him or they avoid him like the plague.
Someone who can very casually leave seven horses in a horse trailer to die is NOT going to be an upright stellar father, teaching their kids morals, firm but fair discipline and giving them clear boundaries. He’s going to be the kind of jackass that finds new and creative ways to torture his kids for minor infractions. The guy has absolutely no empathy – look at every major serial killer in history, they all started out torturing animals. The guy who abuses animals doesn’t usually control their temper with their kids/spouse.
This blog has nothing to do with it. Can you imagine what their peers at school are going to be saying? Or how badly their business is going to suffer (rightly so, IMO) just from having that air on the news, being in local papers, etc? This blog isn’t even the start of the tip of the iceburg. This jackass thinks he’s in the right and his family is going to suffer for it, probably like they’ve been suffering all along.
Some animal abusers may be… decent husbands. But don’t be surprised (or come crying) when they aren’t. You saw his character expressed in a very tangible way: how he treats something he has the power to control. You picked him, and if he acts on that character, well, it’s still inexcusable, but you got a pretty good chance to see it coming.
Same thing if you decide to have children with them… don’t be surprised when nature and nurture come into play and they grow up just like daddy. Yes, they may escape that fate, but you’re still stacking the deck a fair bit towards them becoming abusers themselves.
Then again, you married him (seemingly knowing what he does for a living and more importantly HOW he does it), you sadly probably don’t care :c
Seriously though, seeing how a potential mate treats animals, even if they’re not particularly fond of them, is worth paying attention to.
Oh, and I have news for this guy’s wife… depending on the property and animal cruelty laws of her state, and how their deeds/coggins/bills of sale are done, she could very well be partially to just-as responsible as her husband should charges ever happen!
Another reason to strongly consider who you marry.
Some husbands change after you marry them. I’ll agree that there are often warning signs, but if it were really that simple to spot a future abuser, there wouldn’t be nearly as many women marrying them.
It’s more complicated than you’re painting it, that’s all I’m saying.
Oh I think a lot of women get fooled by guys who show one face and then turn into another person. That is normal. That is why it is very important to always maintain your financial independence. Always be able to grab your kids/animals and LEAVE. Never get into a situation where you have to stay in a scary or violent household because of finances. Any time you are with a guy and he encourages you to leave your job, stay home, he’ll “take care of you,” you have to consider that this is probably a HUGE RED WARNING FLAG.
Amen, mine sure did have me fooled!
Here, I 1000000% agree with you.
I very seriously dated a guy who veeeerrrrryyyyy slowly eroded my sense of self-worth and decision-making abilities, kept me on emotional tenterhooks, and started putting a wedge between me and my friends & family. THAT was finally the last piece of the puzzle.
He never hit me, but he sure did a weird number on my psyche. He then claimed I simply “didn’t get his sense of humor.”
Oh well. His one horsey cousin was into Big Lick TWH, so that should’ve been a genetic clue I guess…
I would say that we dated the same guy, but really, how many adult women do you know who HAVEN’T dated that guy? Fortunately many of us saw when it started to take a serious turn south and got out before it escalated. I like to read true crime and you read about a lot of guys who start off being garden-variety controlling and then it escalates to physical violence. I think that’s a path it almost always goes down if you tolerate the controlling stuff.
I have a much younger friend who married a guy like that. Before they were married or had kids, he had done things like freak out when she went on vacation without him and call every 10 minutes, and threatened the dog’s safety in order to control her. I tried so hard to get her to just cut and run but she believed that relationship was normal (in all fairness, she grew up with a whole lot of weird). It makes me so sad. Now she has kids and feels trapped. She knows the door is always open here if she wants to pick up and get the hell out. I hope she does one day.
I feel like people who abuse animals lack some sort of important part of cognition or structure. I dislike it because I can’t quantify it, but I just feel like a normal person should have some sort of mental barrier against harming another living thing out of sheer malice. Especially an innocent, helpless living thing. I heard someone defending Michael Vick the other day, and I freaking lost it at her. Profiting off the pain and suffering of any animal is so fundamentally messed up- how can you possibly EVER justify it? I’m not sure what exactly it IS that makes it so disturbing, but a person has to have such a disregard for all life if they can knowingly cause pain and suffering and be ok with it. Once a friend of mine got in a fight with a boyfriend and he threw her 2 goldfish out the window- that was enough for her to end all contact and get a restraining order. The best part was that the police agreed that since he had knowingly killed the innocent bystander fish just to spite her, he could be considered dangerous. I hope this signals that animal abuse is being taken more seriously by people as a sign of an underlying set of psychological problems, not just animal abuse.
No trust me, I know that’s often true.
But in this case, this guy has been doing this, and being extremely open about it, for long enough that I have a hard time believing it’s the case.
(Assuming of course Tucker doesn’t get prosecuted first.)
BTW – I did take the time to write professional, polite letters to all the Kansan officials linked on the website. I hope all your other readers do likewise. If we will their inboxes we will up the chances for these horses significantly.
I wish the law employed some form of “eye for an eye”. I would like to see this guy get stuffed into a 130 degree vehicle for a while and see how he likes it. Maybe not till he’s dead, because that would seem “cruel” (albeit deserved) but long enough for him to understand the kind of hell he put his horses through. I can’t sit in an overheated car on a summer day for more than *two minutes* without starting to freak out.
There was an incident in my area this summer where a guy left his two dogs in his car on a 100 degree day while he went in the MALL for FOUR HOURS. One dog died, the other survived. The survivor spent a few days at a vet clinic and then was RETURNED TO THE OWNER. He had a wife and kids and people were arguing “well should his kids be punished for his actions by not giving them back their dog?” In my opinion, YES. That would have been an important life lesson. Dad was incredibly stupid and cruel and as a result, we lost both our dogs, one to heat, and one to the law. Instead, the man and his family learned that if you leave your animals to die, other people will fix your mess and then life goes on as normal. NOT OKAY.
I would LOVE to see “eye for and eye” justice served. Not just in the animal world but for the law in general
I think people would stop and really rethink sick and twisted thoughts before doing them if they knew it would be done to them when they got caught……
I also am all for “an eye for an eye…”
I dated a guy that I had way to much in common with in many aspects. However he was not an animal lover. He didnt even like petting his own hunting dog. He hated cats with a purple passion. (I love cats) and he wouldnt even pet my horse, he shied away from her like she carried the Ebola virus. Yet, he would carry a dead deer out of the woods after hunting it and killing it but would not pet his own damned dog. He was good to his mother but she cooked for him, cleaned for him and etc and I’m sorry I wait for no man, he must have that umbilical cord severed completely before he expects me to be with him. I am not a servant nor a wet nurse. I am college educated he was not (I know that should not matter but in many cases it does.) His dad was a preacher and set in his ways and had the driest of humor I have ever encountered. I went my seperate way, because I knew what the furture had………discontempt and so forth. Besides I didnt love him either.
But now that the furture has come to pass i still ended up with discontempt of my own accord and my own miseries. The residues of my abusive past childhood and teen -hood still haunt me and plague me and I am a sufferer of Depression (Bi Polar) and i fight it every day. I have no support system and I have no one to help me if I need it so I fight, clamore, grab, claw, fall and crash all on my own. Hopelessness is always near with its fanged teeth and nails of daggars waiting all in good time for me to fail again. Its had me in its grasp a few times, I tried suicide a few times, was almost successful a few times. The last attempt I did have a freind who helped but she is no longer near me…separated by 400 miles. So I suffer and fight alone. Some say I am weak and some say I am strong and I say I am neither.
My god…those poor babies. What was worse was I finally watched the HSUS video (linked somehow to the article)…I’d seen the “preview” to the video so many times but never had the courage to watch it. I don’t know why but I did today.
It was as horrible as I thought it would be. F@%^head Raymond Tucker is the worst of the worst, you got that right. Still, that video…I saw so many horses that looked like my boy, or like horses I had ridden before-scared and HOT and injured…it’s like human beings got together and thought, “Hmmm, what would be the absolute WORST, torturous way to kill a horse?” and thought up shipping horses from the US to slaughter plants in Mexico. It really can’t get any worse than that.
Fugly, thank you so, so much for having a voice that reaches millions and using it to highlight this issue-it’s a travesty that we’re still doing this (to ANY animal, but cripes cows and pigs have it better than our horses bound for slaughter in the US. Think about THAT).
My horse Miles is an OTTB who is beautiful and sweet and talented at so much…just not racing. He was very lucky to have people around him that made sure he ended up in a good home. That’s all it was-luck. Even if he was homely and unruly he would never, ever deserve the kind of end we subject horses to every day. ENOUGH already, please. Please.
IN the article that Fugly linked, the asshat says that he does not transport to slaughter and does not transport in semis. The truck pictured was a semi. LIAR
People like that live on nothing but lies.
This is OT but we haven’t had a “where are the halter horses now” type of topic in a while and my formerly halter-shown Mare and I did our first ever jumping competition yesterday. We had VERY little practice and she overjumped many jumps by A LOT but she took very good care of me and didn’t refuse, even when I came at the jump on a bad angle. Check her out!
Sadly, her head is covered by the sign
I love that photo other than that little detail!
Lol, this was in the warm-up ring (the jump is the red and blue bar waaaaaaaaaaaaay underneath her!)
What color do you call that? Interesting looking mare. Two blue eyes?
She looks like she’s coming along beautifully! You’re right, the picture with her head cut off is the prettiest – oh well!
I’m interested to know too!
2 blue eyes with that patterns screams maximum sabino to me, but certain breed registries would call it overo even if it isn’t, genetically speaking.
Maximum sabino (homozygous Sa1), potentially hiding other patterning genes. Should definitely be tested for frame if you ever decide to breed her. NICE looking mare.
So that’s what they call it?
In her “papers” (from some BYB Pinto registry) it says she is “Bay Tobiano” (she IS bay, her body patches are reddy-brown, but the mane one is all black). Unfortunately she has no Paint papers or even QH ones. I’m trying to figure out if there is any way for me to register her with any of the big registries, though I am not really planning on breeding her.
(Not sure in what shows she went to halter-show, her breeder only had some photos on their website before it came down and it didn’t say what show/class it was)
She is only 6 and already had more than her fair share of health issues (most notable ones being with her legs/tendons, including bowing a tendon over night in the paddock…), her conformation is not really outstanding with a loooooong halter-back lol
So unless she turns out to be like.. A jumping GENIUS (you never know, she seems to love it), she’ll probably never be a mommy.
Does anybody around here know what your chances are of breed registering horses without papers that appear to have a lot of QH or Paint blood? (And how it works?) I know that her daddy is Paint x TB (Not sure why you would even breed that stuff, other than the colour), but her Dam was “from the sales” according to the breeder, and came without any paperwork etc?
I’d love you forever if you could help me out with this *nods*
EDIT: I forgot to mention that we had the discussion about her colour in another thread, but because I really have not much of a clue about the paint patterns I just went with what it says in her paperwork.
And yes, both eyes are blue, skin is pink almost everywhere, though she has some random darker pigmented spots, some with pigmented hair, some without. I’ve never come across a horse with her colouring before myself.
She’s at least tovero, and pretty certainly multiple types of overo, including splash as well as sabino and possibly frame — and may not be tobiano at all. Splash accounts for the blue eyes. Register her in the Pinto Association; she won’t be a premium with no known parentage, but she’ll still be registered in an registry considerably older than Paint!
You can probably get her PtHA (regular, non shady Pinto association) papers, no problem. I would do that. The Pinto shows are a lot of fun and I suspect you would do very well with her!
Umm. Blue eyes splash. It seems to be a trend to think all horses with blue eyes have the splash gene, but if you have any pinto genetics at all and the white marking includes all or part of the eye, you will get a blue (or partially blue) eye. Double dilute also causes blue eyes.
She may have tobiano, but should have been registered as bay sabino or bay overo if the registry does not recognize sabino as separate.
UUCD now has tests for Sa1, Ov (frame/OWLS) and To, but the tobiano test is a marker test and only about 95% accurate. She might have Splash, but its hiding under the homozygous Sa1 if so and there’s no test for it or for sa2 (recessive sabino theorized as responsible for the random sabino from solid parents that most commonly shows up in Arabians and TBs).
Her markings are entirely explained by homozygous Sa1, which can even result in a pure white horse. Anything else she might have could only be revealed by testing or pedigree analysis.
Wow, nice job with your cute mare! I love her attitude – she obviously enjoys jumping and is trying hard – in every picture, one ear is forward and the other is listening to you – what concentration! I like the 4th picture best: both of you are smiling and looking ahead to the next jump – you look so in tune with each other.
I like the mare too! She looks like she is enjoying herself.
Thanks everyone, I think she really enjoyed the jumping, too.
We will keep at it for sure. She’s getting to be quite the all-rounder. We have recently started clerking at the Trotts, too haha She does well at thaqt, too ^^
You know, my husband is in Afghanistan right now and while I don’t agree with the Islamic rule (I forget exactly what it’s called, Shamia law or something?) they do have very little theft. Apparently the idea of having your right hand cut off (leaving your dirty bathroom hand to do everything with – that’s right folks they don’t have toilet paper and they wipe their asses with their left hands) is deterrent enough to keep people from stealing. People leave their stuff out, no one locks their doors. Nothing gets taken.
So maybe we need to stop being so politically freaking correct and “sensitive” in cases where someone is just blatantly uncaring and without remorse – not even realizing that what they did was WRONG – and resort to some “letting the punishment fit the crime”.
The only exception would be for adults who think it’s okay to touch little kids. In that case they need to be helpless in a room full of child abuse survivors and have the shit knocked out of them before they are released into the general prison population to be murdered (did you know they have special prisons for pedophiles to keep them safe now?)
Anyway, let this guy go sit in a trailer for about 12 hours without any food or water in 130 degree heat. If he lives he can come out. If he doesn’t live, shit happens, right?
Sorry about the language but this stuff makes me SOOOO angry. There is beyond absolutely NO excuse for this kind of cruelty. You can’t even claim ignorance because even a moron or a 5 year old would know it was too hot to leave the horses there with no water.
I don’t believe in hell, except for cases like this. Our justice system won’t take care of him adequately so I can only hope that there is SOME justice in the world and he’ll get it later.
Sha’ria Law.
You do NOT want it, believe me, as it only really applies to women (NO rights whatsoever) and poor people.
And they do not wipe their backsides with their hands, they have a slop bucket of supposedly clean water and a sponge.
Yes, they use their left hands only.
One piece of one law that might be adaptable, though, is when the offending person family has to make restitution to the victim. If it is murder the victims family gets to say what will happen. Only thing screamingly wrong about that is that the offenders family can, quite literally, buy the victims family off, if they have enough money.
BUT, even if the offender is richer and more powerful, the victims family can still demand, and get, the death penalty.
(Unless the victim is a woman.
Or the offender is a woman, in which case she will be executed out of hand.)
So there is no justice in a Muslim state, not for women.
Don’t agree with Sha’ria law, which I stated simply because I KNOW how biased it is (the stoning of Soraya M) but I think their severe ideas of punishment would work better than “Hmmm, you didn’t feed 200 of your horses and they all died, go to jail for a year, but oh, by the way you’ll be out in four months.” Don’t get me started on Paris Hilton…got out of a felony charge with community service.
Your husband’s perception of the theft rate in Afghanistan doesn’t seem to match what I’m seeing when I look up the statistics. The rate of robbery (someone breaking in and stealing by force) is even higher. They also have a serious problem with kidnapping and assault.
Most likely the people your husband is around who feel comfortable leaving their doors unlocked are not doing so because they know everyone is too afraid of punishment to steal, but because the communities are full of people who know each other and own mainly property which is not easily converted into cash. Kind of hard to steal your neighbor’s stuff when he can come over and watch you using it. Tight-knit communities in America used to leave the doors unlocked too. What changed this wasn’t a change in America’s laws about punishment for theft, but the advent of cars and larger neighborhoods full of people who were more mobile and didn’t recognize each other.
Some of the lowest crime rates in the world are in Northern European countries with lenient punishments.
Plus the fact that, if they get it wrong, it is kind of hard to stick someone’s hand back on…..
Assult on a woman is not considered that big of a crime if any at all. For the woman is always blamed for the actions on another esp if male. If she is raped, it is her fault (she led him on) and is stoned to death. If she assults her husband or another male she is stoned or executed and if its the other way around the man had a right to assult the woman be it his children, his wife, and or etc.
I recommend the book “Princess” by Jean Sasson to any American woman and all free women. This book is the first of a Trilogy about a Princess that grew up in Iran and how her life unfolded. If the royal women get treated like this I can only imagine what the none Royal woemn get treated. It was horrible. She was “Privliged” and was lucky to get away with some of the stuff she did. Her best freind was so lucky.
That is…. WASNT so lucky. ooops.
Trucker Brothers? I knew that name sounded familiar, so I got out one of my old sales catalogs and lo and behold, there was the name right there as consigning 10 horses to a local catalog sale. This sale is a twice a year consignment sale of “better” horses, mostly Quarter Horses. Each year, the owner of the sale takes the mike before the sale and reads the rules of the sale, etc. and then tells that there are alot of nice horses consigned to the sale. He usually says that the Tucker Bros. (which someone told me was from Kansas) has brought in a nice load of good horses that have been worked on a ranch out West. In one of my catalogs that I saved, I see that the Tucker Bros. consigned 10 horses to the sale, but I have seen him before many times at the same sale each year. ( I did not attend it this year, so I don’t know if he brought horses this year or not.) He brings them in, spins them around, does roll backs, etc. to impress the crowd as in how well broke they are ( usually more two-handed jerked around with their heads in the air with their mouths open, than “broke”, IMHO.) Of 10 horses, he might sell 3. I always wondered WHY someone would haul 10 good horses from Kansas, only to No Sale them at our little po-dunk (although it is far better sale than our average monthly horse sales) auction. Then WHY would he invest that much money in hauling them to Ohio, only to No Sale most of them? And, if he couldn’t sell his own horses, WHY did he usually buy a couple “nothing” horses? Now it all makes sense. The “nothing” horses that went cheap, were purchased by him for kill. Who knows what he does with the better registered Quarter Horses ( those well broke “ranch” horses ), which most likely he purchased right out of a sale barn somewhere for resale. We always joked that he had to haul them from Kansas to Ohio so the locals in his area didn’t recognize them…we thought that was a joke, but it’s looking like it most likely is true! Probably couldn’t sell them to people that knew them in Kansas. I’d sure like to know more about these working ranch horses he bring, where they come from, where they go, and why he hauls them clear to Ohio to try sell? Always sounded fishy to me. No, I see why.
Wow, I really hope this gets prosecuted. It does sound like Tucker is in cahoots with local law enforcement though so it may not happen…
Not to change the subject, but I have a question not relating to this incident but about something I discovered today that I found EXTREMELY disturbing. Today, I went to a Daiso Japanese dollar store (a popular store chain in Japan, where dollar stores are not as shitty as they are here) that they had opened here in California and found that they have started importing cosmetic ‘Horse Cream’s that use horse fat as an ingredient. We all know that this is beyond gross, but is there anything legally wrong with it? I am going to complain to the company anyway but it would be nice to know if there was a government agency that I could also complain to about it.
I did not get to watch the original video. No excuse for horses to be left out like that in the heat, if I understood it correctly. Shame on him and hope he rots!
ON THE OTHER HAND…
I did veiw the ‘blog’ link. That first photo is definitly not a horse carcass. Yes the remaining phots show skinny horses BUT, they did look to be on decent pasture.
That aside, the USHS video claiming horses are ‘pets’? People think long and hard because you might get what you wish for. Think horses are pricey now? Get them declassified as livestock and you haven’t seen nothing yet…
I hate to tell you, but here in California horses are designated “Pets” the only expense we’ve incurred is paying sales tax on horse feed. If you are buying feed for cattle/chickens/pigs it is not taxable.
Of course we do have to purchase a $10.00 a year license for our horses in Los Angeles County, but that’s it. Not the doom and gloom that you are portraying.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering how this was going to make horses more expensive?
The only thing I can think of is that people who are in the horse biz could lose livestock tax write offs but if you’re in business, you still get a lot of write offs. Get a better accountant if you need to.
Honestly, and I pray that no one takes complete offense to this, but I can’t so much see how horses can qualify as livestock in this day and age. I mean, at one point when people relied on horses to provide a service (transportation) it would be perfectly logical, however, no one HAS to have a horse now. Horses are essentially a luxury/hobby pursuit at this moment in time.They don’t provide any real consumable commodity (aside from being sliced into steaks and shipped to Europe, but that’s a whole other can of worms),are owned/kept strictly for recreation for the most part, and only in rare circumstances can be considered for tax purposes. I can possibly see why the very small minority of horse owners whose income comes solely from horses would be opposed, but like you said, there are several other write offs.
What about pack strings for hunting in remote wilderness? Horse used to to help with logging? What about cattle ranching? There is even land here where only horses can access and provide land clearing. Do you really think the owners of horse in these situations see there horses as a recreation? Maybe in your neck of the woods all horses have turned to pleasure, but in mine horses still serve a purpose.
Also, I understand that the means of slaughter are horrible, but isn;t the act of providing meat for millions of hungry people and carnivorous animals that we have domesticated humane?
Are you confused by the difference of livestock as food and horses as SERVICE animals. Not livestock. The operative word here to distinguish the difference is SERVICE ANIMAL. Cows, pigs, chicken, sheep, goats (which I heartily opposed this one) are all considered livestock. We don’t ride any of them. We don’t used any of them for mounted patrol. We don’t used any of them for herding our COWS. Another words, horses are considered service animals, domesticated for the sole purpose of servicing we human as a service. The first and foremost is COMPANIONSHIP.
Like I said, I agree that a very small percentage of horses in the US are still used for utilitarian purposes like the ones you mentioned. (Although for argument’s sake, hunting is still recreational.)
My point was that aside from that small percentage, no one who doesn’t fall into that category HAS to own a horse to survive. And while I don’t take issue with using animals for food, an animal bred and kept solely to provide recreation to humans should not have every drop of use wrung from it while living, and then be dumped out like the garbage with absolutely no consideration or compassion. Its not a question of meat-eating ethics, nor of property rights. Eating horsemeat isn’t even the issue here, in my mind; its the simple fact that we, as horse owners and human beings, owe the horse a decent end by planning for it and being responsible enough to ensure that they receive it when it’s time. We train them to rely on/trust humans to provide what they need and do what we ask whenever we ask it, and care for them for as long as we have a use for them, then suddenly it becomes ok to stop caring and sell them off by the pound? Or because we “can’t bear to see them be PTS/get old”, we punt them to the nearest auction to take their chances with the KBs? No. Period. It is wrong, pure and simple.
It didn’t look like decent pasture to me — ?? It looked like weeds in a lot of them.
I agree, That is not a rotting animaml carcass but a rotting “tree” carcass. I have seen a many rotting animal carcasses to know the difference between mammal and vegitation. From such a relatively short disdance like in the photo that is definatly a rotting log. IF the person taking the photo was that close why didnt they just walk a few more feet and look at it straight forward. They must not have seen many dead animal carcasses not to know the difference between a rotting log and dead large animal. The most prominent thing would be the ribcage at this stage of decomp. Next would be the pelvic bone then the skull unless, of course, it has all been ravaged by scavenging animals. Since the area looks to be dry the decomp rate would be a little more slower than if in a region of high humidity and moisture. Regardless though the ribcage would still stand out as a good tale tell sign of animal carcass of this size. Flesh does not bleach out white and turn into a white blob (it takes fat a while to do this contained in a coffin saturated with water called “saponification”.) however bones will bleach out over a good amount of time esp in you drier sunnier regions. Not to mention the odor of death would still be lingering perhaps not as strong.
Is anyone else shocked that the paper even found his statements newsworthy? Who the heck publishes sh!t talking and calls it news? The entire article is Tucker’s rant, from beginning to end — about how the animal rights activists, the Mexicans, and even the women veterinarians are all out to get him.
It definitely did not strike me as an unbiased piece of journalism! It was much more like a blog entry than a newspaper article.
That said, let him rant. Like I say, maybe his words will wake up the folks who think the animal rights wackos are making it all up about horses dying in transit.
Have you ever heard the phrase “give him enough rope and he’ll hang himself”? He’s admitting to many unsavory (and possibly illegal) things in an open forum with no prodding. It WILL come back to haunt him!
That phrase is SO true here. The reporter let him talk, and talk he did!
I hope you don’t mind but I reposted this on my own blog, as there’re a lot of people I know who don’t read this blog and ought to be thinking about these things. Also a shout out to Provo Ponies on Turks and Caicos, as they’ve been taking in horses, fattening them up, retraining them, and giving them jobs as “ride on the beautiful beach in the tropics” ponies.
http://lifeoflindsey.posterous.com/because-it-hurts-me-to-see-it-again
Thank you for putting all this information out here. People are so unaware. I’ve been reading your blog (and sharing it with others) for maybe six months shy of your starting it and it’s brilliant. Thanks.
Thank you!
Did anyone notice the newscasters final comment?? He simply said “hard to believe”.
Not so hard for most people involved with horses, but no doubt the majority of Americans
have no idea this kind of stuff goes on. No clue about horse slaughter or the “pipeline” at all. Makes it hard to believe that things will really get better for horses anytime soon……
OT but a funny ad (plus, he seems a good project for someone in the know)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/grd/1997288802.html
Text of ad:
For Sale: Grumpiest Appy Gelding Ever – $250 (White Lake)
Date: 2010-10-09, 12:17PM EDT
Reply to: sale-xxsxv-1997288802@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Here’s the story on this Appy: Got him as a “give away” from a wanna-be breeder who did nothing but lead him from pasture to stall and to breed ARAB mares (why on EARTH anyone would breed a PLEASURE-bred appaloosa to arabian mares is beyond me). They ear-twitched the hell out of this horse, whailed on him when he showed the slightest stallion-tendencies of talking to the girls, and let him rot for 9 years as nothing but a baby maker. He’s ten years old now. I picked him up (I’ve never seen a horse jump in a trailer faster than he did), brought him home, and promptly had the vet cut off his “boys” and started giving him a new job as a riding horse. Needless to say, I can’t really blame him for his bad attitude. He’s a little headshy until he realizes you’re not going to twist his ears around, but he still won’t let me put on a bridle or take off his halter. He’s had a saddle on a dozen or so times, no problem, he lunges like a champ, DOES NOT clip, and I’ve been on his back and ridden him around the round pen several times (in a halter). He’s got a VERY soft face, works off voice commands, but as a general rule, he’s a little meathead and occasionally has jackass-stallion moments and needs an EXPERIENCED handler (which means, NO KIDS).
Because he’s still working on accepting the fact that he no longer possesses the family jewels between his legs, he has a grand time bringing EVERY mare here into season (including my PREGNANT mare, but she’s just a slut), driving my other geldings absolutely INSANE, and marching around his pasture like he’s God’s gift to the female population. The proper way to describe him would be to think Danny DeVito with hooves. He’s easy to handle on the ground, mainly because he’s afraid he’s going to get clobbered and as a general rule, he’s not a bad guy, just grumpy. Never offered to bite or get mouthy or kick out. We DO slightly sedate him to do his feet (he had dinner-plates when he got here, again, a sign of what EXCELLENT care he had at the breeding farm), only so we don’t have to use a stud chain or be mean to him. He will come up to you in the pasture without any issue, doesn’t crib or chew wood. He’s turned out with the coming 2 year old colts now and doesn’t have a problem with them. Not a bad guy overall, but needs someone who wants a project and doesn’t mind working with his past. Built like a little diesel truck, 14.1 at best, correct conformation, but no registration papers (someone cheated the stallion owner when she shipped semen so she wouldn’t sign the breeder’s certificate), although he’s pleasure-bred.
I need the $250 I paid to geld him, or if someone knows a REALLY GOOD, not horribly expensive trainer, I’d be happy to send him out for 30 days or so. I have a half dozen coming 2 and 3 year olds I need to work on, so he’s getting pushed to the bottom of the priority list, and its just not fair to him.
Phone calls ONLY, from serious, capable horse-people only. I will not let this horse go to just anyone. You’re going to have to prove that you’re capable to work with him before he can go with you. I do not want to see this guy end up at the killers, he’s a nice guy deep down, just has the grumpy old man complex someone needs to work through first.
I love this ad for its honesty. Anyone who responds would know exactly what they were getting in to. And kudos to the person for gelding him.
Wish I still lived in Detroit, I love Appy project horses.
Bummer this guy is out in detroit! Sounds like they are working really hard to do the right thing!
Wow. If only everyone selling a horse was that honest and able to write so well. Love it.
Hope they can find him a good home, that price seems on the dangerously low side… ???
Hmmm, this is not totally related, but I hope this girl gets her horse back. http://duluth.craigslist.org/grd/1999499914.html
See, THIS is why I support this blog, even though sometimes Cathy and I don’t always agree about everything. This young woman sold a horse she loved because of financial hardship and had no clue. She didn’t know any better – and now she does, and she’s rightly terrified about what may have happened to her horse. Of the various things the Fugly blog does, in my opinion the most vital is informing horse owners about what really happens to horses that sell at auctions for not too much money, so that the owners can take action to keep their horses off the kill wagon.
I hope her horse is fine and she hears some news.
This guy needs to listen to himself…WHO is going to believe this story of his when it was 130-140 fucking degrees in the trailer?!?! Even if the thing about saving $200 is true, WHO is going to believe that story in that kind of heat?!
Well, I know what bed&breakfast I’ll never stay at…would sleep in my car first! I wonder if the guests ever smell a stench there? He probably blames it on the water plant close by like Gacy blamed his plumbing for the smell of his victims rotting in the crawlspace!
It’s just gross. I wonder if he is legally allowed to bury a lot of horses on his property. It sounds like he does this a lot.
In ks you can legally bury horses on your property. I’ve known multiple people to do so.
That’s what I think the first pic is of on the blog site – if you look behind the rotting wood, it looks like a hole (/mass grave).
Yeah, you can do that a lot of places, but how many? 1? 2? 500? I’d be interested to see what will happen if it turns out this asshole is operating the Killing Fields of Kansas…it could very well end up that he winds up losing the lawabiding citizens their right to bury the family pet on their property. People talk about the slaughterhouses breaking ordinances with the blood and sewage they generated getting into the wrong places…that could very well happen here, depending on how many carcasses are really out there. They’d be dealing with whole carcasses and not just the leavings. Plus that amount of waste is likely to generate a thriving population of varmints if any of them are just laying out there like the “rotting tree/carcass” picture implicates.
Everyone that I ever knew did it as “my horse is old, I’ll get a backhoe out when they go, and keep my horse close to me”. Not sure about seepage or anything, but I know (at least most) people were lining with tarps, and going deep enough and covering with rocks (if you’re digging a hole by hand… for a horse… umm, hence the backhoe, they could go deep enough) that wildlife was not an issue.
I hope they can his ass, there needs to be far less tolerance of cruelty to ALL creatures, and teaching of it to the kids. On my planet, they’d all be neutered . . . then kicked off!
You can bet the farm that the Tucker boys have lived through hell. Proven fact, animal abuse equals people abuse. One old piece of shit here was busted 2 1/2 years ago for her torture chamber puppymill. Dogs with untreated broken legs, eyes damaged, bitches with dead puppies in them, well you get the picture. She lost all her animals, 250 in all including 50 horses.
Heard later what she did to her kids when they were young. One she shoved a running water hose down her throat. Another she smashed with the truck up against the barn, ruptured her liver. The stories go on and on.
Her adult children knew about the abuse of her animals, did’nt do a thing about it. Now they are keeping a new herd of 50 plus horses for her so her probation officer can’t do anything about her having animals. They even go to the auctions and buy horses for her! Another 6 months and she will be off probation and free to collect anything she wants to torture again. I wonder what goes on with her grandchildren. Google her she is so special: Darlene Reno.
See, you can’t fix that. That kind of person NEEDS to be locked up for life.
Concerning those who tout that they are so Christian…. my BIL is currently “dating” a woman. She says she doesn’t want to come between him and his wife ( who loves him very much ), doesn’t want the relationship to go any further ( or so she says right now ), yet they are seen together all over town together, he takes her to movies, and to dinner, etc. Seems to me, if she is as Christian as she says, she wouldn’t be doing such things ( even if it IS just a friendship ) with a married man, and put temptation in his face, so to speak. It gets very old to hear people talk about how religious they are, when their actions prove otherwise. I strive to make MY actions clearly show others that I am a Christian.
If that hasn’t turned the corner beyond friendship already, it will soon. The point is that he’s choosing her as a companion over his wife. That means his marriage is in trouble. It may not be specifically her fault but if he wants to stay married, he’d better re-evaluate his choices.
Yep, he’s spent the past year trying to decided which he plans to stay with – the wife or the girl friend. If I was his wife, I’d make the decision for him, and tell him not to let the door hit him on the butt on the way out.
Wow – we should have a club or something. My husband is leaving me, and our 6 year old son, for a “Christian” woman, who assured me her relationship with my husband (back in February) was strictly supportive and about God. She didn’t want to damage our relationship, and was just there as a shoulder for him when he needed to talk to someone. Yeah right. That explains why she was asking him to send her naked pictures of himself. When I found out, he promised not to be with her anymore, so just got a pay-as-you-go phone to talk to her so the number wouldn’t show up on the phone bill. He’s an over-the-road truck driver so no trouble at all planning a rendevous. He actually went to church this last Sunday to justify his relationship with her, and strengthen his resolve to leave us. When I met him he didn’t even know what the Easter holiday was really about. But they’re not sinning because their relationship is in the name of God. I want to know what church condones that – along with breaking at least three commandments? If she were truly a Christian, she would have stopped all association with him the moment she found out he was married. But as her interest in him is less about bringing back a “lost sheep”, and more about having someone with a decent paycheck so she can stop being a truckstop waitress, I’m guessing she knows little about true Christianity.
BTW, they’re totally “doing” it. I hope that puts your fears to rest.
//
Well, you can’t say Tucker the Cocksucker doesn’t have any sense of right or wrong. After all, they don’t allow no smokin’ cigarettes at their hellhole hacienda. Nossir, that’s a filthy habit, and they ain’t a’gonna have none of it. And they don’t allow no pets, neither, cuz them dadgum little yappy dogs be botherin’ everyone. They be some good Christians, them Tuckers, and they ain’t gonna be havin’ none of that funny business a’goin’ on at their farm. (Unless it’s horse killin’. ‘Cuz Jeezus was all about torture and horse killin’. And disciplinin’ the young’uns.)
When I find out he’s fat and can’t spell, besides, it’ll be a quadfecta. People like this leave so little to surprise.
Pet name WIN.
If Satan is found here then Satan also has a sister.
Fugly posted back in I think June about a horse dragged to death behind a trailer in Arlington (Grandview area). Many witnessed, there was tv coverage, cursory investigation and nothing pursued against the woman driver.
Information coming out in dibs and dabs on what forums still active on the topic is that the driver and her family are well connected possibly in local government and family is mega-gotrocks and also hints that maybe some witness intimidation going on.
Fugly, some folks might like an update and some hard questions why this was allowed to happen with no consequences. Care to take it on?
I would if I knew any more than the rest of you. Why this woman has escaped prosecution is totally beyond me!
Can someone tell me how to contact fugly? There’s something I came across that should definitely come out publicly on here! There’s a local woman advertising the fck out of a F U G L Y stud -it hasn’t of course done a damn thing but had small children on it helmetless of course! She also has had a bunch of other sad and sorry looking horses for sale or trade too. Thanks!
My email is resqtb@yahoo.com
See, this is why I would like to hold out for a cultural shift such that it is unacceptable to ship ANY animal that is intended for slaughter ANY further than is strictly necessary.
Slaughter, all slaughter, should take place as close as possible to the farm gate. Yes, horses are exceptionally sensitive and prone to suffering in these situations, but it would be no more right had this lowlife done this with a trailer full of cows or sheep.
Which is why I buy as much of my meat as possible from local producers. Directly. Its economical for them to slaughter at smaller plants close to the farm rather than at the huge assembly lines.
GOOD FOR YOU. *clapclapclap*
You should check with them about where specifically they slaughter. In California (and in many other areas) there are so few USDA approved slaughterhouses that there can be 6 month+ waits to get your stock slaughtered, especially if you’re a small producer. And your appointment can and will get “bumped” for bigger business. This means while the animals may be raised near you, the producer may have to haul them many, many hours away for processing and often have to settle for shoddy work because there is no other choice.
I worked on a small production farm last year and the one place that would take the pigs returned bruised meat. They were trailered by litter, six or so at a time in a huge stock trailer, so that can only mean they weren’t treated well in the slaughter plant itself. Not much you can do though since the plants have a virtual monopoly and no complaint department.
Mobile slaughter units are popping up in places where producers are able to charge enough of a premium to support them, but they’re not going to solve the problem. It’s infuriating how much the current system sucks and how stacked the cards are against small, humane producers.
OR, just don’t slaughter them. Don’t breed them for slaughter. Don’t eat them. There is a very simple solution for the horrible cruelty in our meat production system. Don’t be a part of it. I will probably get flamed for being the animal loving vegetarian that I am, but in my eyes it seems like a pretty obvious solution to the problem.
Meh. You can’t really throw that around unless you’re strict vegan.
The egg and dairy industries are far less humane than the beef and meat bird industries. Meat birds exist for 7 weeks or so before slaughter, laying hens endure enclosures as small as 7 inches by 7 inches for two seasons, are subjected to forced molting where they’re starved in the dark for a couple of weeks to simulate winter and in the end, they’re slaughtered anyway.
Dairy cows often spend their entire adult lives chained to one stanchion often lamer than lame, have their calves removed right after birth and end up packed onto a slaughter truck the instant their production tapers off. Contrast that to beef steers who usually spend most of their life range grazing thanks to super cheap leases from the government, are supplemented with hay as needed and are finished in a feed lot on corn then slaughtered. The end is the same for both, but the meat animal fairs far better in life.
There are decent, humane ways to raise and slaughter food animals. Unfortunately both big business and the US Government are dead set against them.
Not to mention, you don’t need to bother preaching “vegetarian” unless your shoes, saddles, tack and even your jello is synthetic.
Well, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. You guys went pretty soft compared to the reaction that I expected
I do try my best to do the right thing. My work boots are leather, so you have me there. Other than that I do not wear leather, fur, wool, feathers, etc. I buy free range eggs or get them from a hay farmer friend who has pet hens. I do also consume dairy products, and I know that the big dairy industry is horrible, so you have me there as well. Again, I try to buy locally produced and I keep it to a minimum (cheese here and there). I don’t actually own any leather tack. I show in my clients’ saddles. So there you have it. And, no I do not eat Jell-O, LOL.
OK, haven’t been here for awhile… just skimmed some comments… but ….
THIS GUY’S ATTITUDE IS PERFECTLY PERFECTLY PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE AMONG AQHA/APHA/APPALOOSA BIG TIME BREEDERS.
They are pro-breedalot, and the ones that don’t early on look like futurity or halter prospects go to kill. They think it’s fine, natural, etc. They say they “love” their horses, but that’s only the good ones. If they fail to see any monetary value or early talent in a foal, it is (literally) dead to them.
Yes, this is a broad generalization, but it’s pretty much the stock horse party line. They think it’s all Cowboy or some such bullshit.
“Some animal abusers may be… decent husbands. But don’t be surprised (or come crying) when they aren’t. You saw his character expressed in a very tangible way: how he treats something he has the power to control.” He’s probably not overtly abusive, but I bet he’s sure Alpha Male and Chief Stump Pisser at his house, and his family might be perfectly fine with their assumed roles. I find it dysfunctional, they might not. Useless to speculate, and kind of mean.
As for bullying…. HEY, some of us were born sensitive, and would like to stay that way. Bullying NEEDS to be stamped out, because the consequences are real. Suicide is the 4th most common cause of death among CHILDREN. It takes more than merely growing a Thick Skin. I grew up with a mom who spouted repeatedly “Life Is Not Fair And The World Owes You Nothing,” and had an often embarrassing and debilitating chronic illness that proved it (try going to school with a hemoglobin of 6 – I did, and got good grades to boot), and I NEVER grew a Thick Skin. Thank God no one targeted me for serious abuse, like daily Swirlies, extreme Wedgies, etc. like i saw other kids go through. It was bad enough being lonely, awkward and homely, without suffering the amazing ganging-up cruelty doled out to the unfortunate few.
Saying that kids should just “grow a thick skin” is incredibly stupid, insensitive, unrealistic and uninformed. Sweet Jesus.
Thick skinned people often grow up to be cruel or unfeeling people.
I disagree. Being able to withstand life’s trials and tribulations is a SKILL. That’s a skill parents and schools should be teaching. You will NEVER be able to bubble wrap kids and protect them from the world. The solution is to teach them to deal with the world WITHOUT internalizing it all to the point where they become self-destructive.
There is no connection whatsoever between having a thick skin and being cruel to others. I actually think most bullies are very THIN skinned individuals, because they bully TO BE POPULAR because they are so terrified of the alternative!
However, as to what you say about the AQHA folks, I don’t have much of a defense to it. The attitude is very, very prevalent that horses are disposable, and dammit, we should have a right to dispose of them in a real cheap way that isn’t a hassle.
Yes but… There are some horses that you can get after when they’re being an idiot. They respond well to firm correction. There are other horses that shake in fear when you raise your voice, not from abuse, but just because they’re born that way. There are people like that too.
It is important to learn how to cope with people being nasty, especially for sensitive people. And everyone can make some progress in this. But the words you and some of the other people here are using (‘toughen up’, ‘grow a thicker skin’) come across like you’re blaming them for feeling pain. It’s a bit like telling a clinically depressed person to ‘just snap out of it’. It’s not possible to ‘just change’ like that, and it’s insulting to boot. I trust that’s not what you mean, but that’s why you’re raising people’s hackles.
But you can’t explain things to a horse the way that you can explain things to a child.
Sure, personalities are different but anyone CAN learn coping tactics to one degree or another. Again, not the child’s responsibility, but the parent’s. You can teach your child things that help them deal with negativities and unpleasant people, and those lessons will help them far, far into their future.
Right, I totally agree with you there. I was just trying to point out that people were bothered by some of the word choices, and that’s why feathers were getting unnecessarily ruffled.
There is little point in trying to explain most things to kids, below a certain age, anyway, it’s like the parents you see trying to reason with a three year old in the supermarket. TELL IT “NO” AND MOVE ON- our eardrums will survive it and it will learn, eventually.
The person responsible for stopping the bullying is the school and the kids parents, not the child being bullied.
Call the police, charge the kid with abuse, see how much the parents laugh then!
Bullying is a HUGE problem, it should not be tolerated, but the buck has to start at the school, because that is where most bullying takes place, and it has to stop with the bully’s parents.
The child is not responsible.
The parents ARE.
Amen sister! It almost seems like some people, much like the backyard breeders, only have a kid to see what they make and then forget the responsibilities that come with it or truly believe that it lies with someone else.
I SO agree on this- I was bullied all the way from 8th grade till I graduated. Of course, back then, nothing was really done about it. It wasn’t a big deal, happened all the time, part of growing up. Teachers either didn’t know or didn’t care: once in gym class we were doing archery and one kid ( I STILL remember your name, Ed K*******…) drew his bow and pointed at me and the teacher LAUGHED. Lunch was always a disaster- I would eat as fast as I could and then escape to the library. I finally did tell one kid to f*** off (and THAT word wasn’t used like it is today back then) and they started to leave me alone.
Plus, I’m one of those “sensitive” ones. I can “feel” tension in a room if the people were arguing when I walk in, and I don’t even have to know them! They don’t even have to be talking… it’s like an aura, and it makes my skin crawl…. *shudder*
Oh gosh, yes. Other people’s conflict is the worst. I’ve been known to RUN out of the room if people are raising their voices. It’s better (still terrible) if they’re yelling at me, at least then I can try and calm them down, but overhearing it makes me want to tear my ears out.
I can’t believe your archery teacher thought that was funny! My instructor FLEW halfway across the gym and yanked a bow out of someone’s hands when she thoughtlessly turned sideways – she had an arrow on the string but no tension, but he reacted like she’d pulled a gun on someone.
My best luck stopping bullying was the one time I kicked a kid in the shins in grade school. He never bothered me again. I wish I’d remembered that better in high school – there was at least one guy I should have kicked, only higher and a whole lot harder.
Oh. My. God.
Raymond Tucker is cruel to horses and — surprise, surprise — hates Mexicans because… because… because he considers himself superior to them ?
Jesus, Marie et les Douze Apotres: a rotten wad of bat guano is morally and mentally superior to Raymond Tucker.
I encourage everyone to contact the relevant authorities.
Incroyable.
“Jesus, Marie et les Douze Apotres: a rotten wad of bat guano is morally and mentally superior to Raymond Tucker.”
Well said!
The Show Jury better be a little more careful when they are joking around.
http://www.barnmice.com/video/naked-show-jumping?xg_source=activity
Hope you laugh
Lolzoriffic!
Nice looking fellow – too bad he dropped a rail, I would have liked to see him jog his horse in hand for the ribbons!
At least he wore his helmet – awesome!
Finally, my first post in many years of reading this site like the bible.
And very off topic.
I’ve been having trouble finding a good rescue to get an OTTB for myself to ride and show english. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada but can travel anywhere in the maritimes. I was wondering if there are any organizations that you know of in Canada that offer retrained and rehabed horses for sale.
Also any advice you can offer or sudgested blogs to read that would be a great help with owning an OTTB.
You could try contacting Longrun Thoroughbred Retirement Society. They work out of Woodbine in Ontario, but they may have some contacts in the Maritimes. They were wonderful helping me adopt my new guy.
http://www.longrunretirement.com
Email: info@longrunretirement.com
Tel: (416) 675-3993 ext. 3440
Did anyone else go to the Tuckers’ Bed and Breakfast page? They claim to be horse breeders and trainers– not horse dealers and killers. They invite their guests to enjoy the uninterrupted view on a thousand acres. They don’t say anything about dead or dying horses. Sick, sad world in triplicate. I hope Tucker gets some heavy fines and jail time –but he probably won’t. Thanks, Fugly for letting us all know about this scum and the idiot who works for him.
I’m so glad that AC was able to save some of them. Sorry that two died such a horrible death. I wish I could force all the pro-slaughter fools to look at that trailer or one like it crammed with horses, though. I’d love to hear them try to say those conditions were humane.
As for the “controversial” photo– Dead tree not dead horse.
Now as for those of you who are so concerned about seepage from the burial of horses– WHAT ABOUT ALL THE EMBALMED DEAD PEOPLE that are buried annually? Aren’t you worried about all those chemically infused bodies and seepage?
I do bury horses on my property– I have always buried horses — and dogs and cats and any other pet including pet rats and hampsters– I am not worried that a few horses buried “six feet under” with a backhoe are going to -heaven forbid- contaminate the aquifer that is several hundred feet if not thousands of feet deep in the earth. If I were going to worry about stuff like that, I think I would be more worred about the millions of embalmed people buried in this country. More to the point, I would definitely be worried about aquifer contamination from natural gas and oil well drilling than from the burial dead animals.
Yeah, but dead people are in caskets…I assume those caskets prevent at least some seepage issues. (But I’m no expert!)
Once you factor out the water, most of the world is made up of two things – dead stuff and poop. A few dead animals are not going to hurt anything. If you walk back in the deep woods a lot you will find dead deer, dead dogs, dead coyotes… and ain’t nobody burying them with a backhoe, they just lay there. The beetles and the ants and the cockroaches and the bacteria do a fine job recycling these things into dirt.
In fact, I read an article recently about emergency response to major disasters such as earthquakes, and one of the problems they have is getting people to worry LESS about the dead bodies and MORE about the living people. Despite the belief that lots of dead folks piled up will lead to massive outbreaks of disease, the truth is that you’re far more likely to catch something from a live body than a dead one, unless the dead person died of a contagious disease.
The main problem with burying lots of dead horses on his property isn’t contagion, it’s that it hides the fact that there ARE lots of dead horses to bury. If it had to be done publicly, he would have to admit what was going on.
OT, but the new trend is “green burial” – being buried in a nature preserve sans embalming in a biodegradable casket. I kind of like the idea, going back to nature.
He was targeted by animal rights activists? That’s funny. I own horses and have never been targeted by animal rights activists. I must just be lucky.
Hmmm, all my friends who own animals must be lucky too.
And all my relatives.
Actually, come to think of it, all the people I know. Guess we all just dodged a bullet to avoid being targeted by animal rights activists. Whew!
It’s funny how the only people who whine about animal rights activists are the ones being charged with crimes. Last time I checked, the police department and the D.A.s office weren’t animal rights activists.
Exactly. Yeah, it’s funny, no one ever calls animal control on my horses, either. Do you suppose it’s because mine are healthy weight? Perhaps?
No way in hell. I am almost certain I have seen this man MANY .. MANY times at a local horse auctions that goes on every monday night in Linwood, KS. Is there a picture of this man somewhere on the internet?? “Tucker” is an avid horse buyer at this particular auction .. come to think of it, I saw him not too long ago..