Frying pan, fire, what the fuck…
Jun 25 2010
There are really no words strong enough to describe how I feel about this one.
You all know how hard I (and many others) tried to get some justice for the large herd of Arabians suffering in Darlene Wilson’s lack-of-care in Roy, Washington. This took years. Finally, Pierce County stepped in and confiscated horses and gave three of them to the barn that had their contract to keep seized horses. Then, down the road, those horses and many more of Darlene’s horses went to a “horse assistance organization” few of us knew very much about, Ripley’s Horse Aid Foundation.
Everybody was thrilled though, and went to visit the horses at Ripley’s and cheered them on online. Ripley’s provided sunshiny updates about the horses and how they were doing. On June 2nd, this article was published which alleges that Ripley’s had successfully adopted out 18 horses already. Wow. ‘Cause it’s not that easy to adopt out unhandled adult Arabians. Needless to say, locals started smelling something fishy that did not come from the port of Tacoma. They started asking inconvenient questions like, where did the horses go? Where were the pictures of the horses in their new homes? Who were the brave souls who took on the wild little Arabians?
Well shit, you’d have thought we were asking the Ripley’s gals for their personal SSN’s and who they lost their virginity with. Apparently all of this information was SUPER classified. Say what? Um, Rose, you were the one who was all for getting the truth out there when you were outing Jenny Edwards and Hope for Horses on their shit all over Youtube. Does the same rule not apply to you, sunshine?
Then they got REALLY defensive, posting on their page that you could only ask questions if you fully identified YOURSELF. “The following information must be included to verify legitimate inquiries. Your name, city, state, and county, your question. If you wish information in regard to a donation you have made, include the amount and date and no addition information is required. For any other inquiries you must include if you are affiliated in any way with the owner of a particular situation, an organization or a rescue group. If yes, you must include the name of the organization or rescue. ALL information must be included.”
SERIOUSLY? Uh, guys, you have a 501(c)(3). That means the public has a right to ask where the money goes and how it is spent. They don’t have an obligation to provide YOU with anything. (See, here is where it is nice not to have a 501(c)(3). You don’t take other peoples’ money, you don’t have to explain your choices. And I’m going to anyway, just because I personally am not trying to cover up or hide my choices, whereas you seem to be.) Anyway, the point being, when you TAKE all that money including a whopper grant from PetSmart Charities, you DO have to answer questions and you SHOULDN’T be snarky asses about it. Biting the hand that feeds you isn’t very advisable.
Finally, RHAF posted an “explanation” after rumors went flying everywhere that as many as ten horses may have been euthanized: “Ripley’s Horse Aid Foundation
Statement as promised. Relinquished Equines: RHAF has a no-kill policy for adoptable equines.”
Okay. So all that says is that they judged certain horses to be unadoptable. Which is fine, but provide some information about how you came to that conclusion. You know, for the people who donated money assuming the goal was to rehab, train and rehome. If there was something major wrong, all you have to do is tell people. Sure, you’ll still get shit, there’s always an asshole but most people are going to be cool as long as they get some basic information about how you came to your decision.
Let me give you an example. I put a rescue horse to sleep this week. So did SAFE. In both cases, they were horses who had the following qualities:
(1) They were not sound and the issues were chronic (significant arthritis)
(2) They had attacked people while loose in the field on numerous occasions and those people were, in at least some cases with each, experienced handlers who definitely did nothing to provoke the attacks.
(3) The behavior was totally unpredictable. The horses could be fine one day and then sink their teeth into someone or kick them the next.
(4) They were not suitable as companion horses due to this unpredictable aggression. In the case of the one I had, she also did not tie and would actually run through a fence to viciously attack another horse. And I don’t mean hot tape, I mean field fence with wood on top. She injured other horses and got herself evicted from two different farms as a result.
(5) They had both had excellent vet and farrier care and did not lack for a thing during the last years of their lives. They had both received professional training. Thousands of dollars were spent trying to fix them before the ultimate decision to let them go. The people who worked with them agreed that they were physically and mentally suffering and the decision to euthanize was a good one.
Were they nice horses who did not deserve to get as screwed up as they wound up being? Of course! Could an experienced handler have safely dealt with them forever? Maybe. But good luck finding any scenario where you are the only person who ever handles a horse. The fact of the matter is that a dangerous horse will eventually hurt someone else. It may be the farrier. It may be a vet. No matter how quick you think YOU are, and I admit I’m one of those who has avoided ever having non-riding injuries and thinks that I’m pretty damn good at getting out of the way, it may be you. Nobody wants to euthanize but there is a time and place when it is appropriate…after, great big point, after you have made a good faith effort to resolve the horse’s problems. You don’t do it after a damn month or two. If you didn’t want to make more of an effort than that, don’t take them on in the first place. Those horses could have been thrown up for adoption on the ABN and other Arabian boards and I will bet someone would have taken them and they’d be alive today. Never happened.
So, RIP to SAFE’s Little Miss and CBER’s/PEC’s and ultimately my Soot/aka Abbey, who good rescuers made the very best possible effort with…and also to whatever horses of Darlene Wilson’s that never got a chance at all. Sure, it’s all a judgment call. I just don’t see a hell of a lot of evidence that good judgment went into RIpley’s call.
If you’re not quite ready for adoption and a long-term commitment and just looking for a lease, check out gorgeous Prince at Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue! More info here.
201 comments to “Frying pan, fire, what the fuck…”
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Do you know for sure they were actually put down? Shame because I thought most were rehab candidates and well bred.
Who got Goose from the chart above? What a looker! Someone got a score there!
Nope, I don’t know. It’s just the rumor and they refuse to confirm, deny or identify the whereabouts of specific horses so, you know, that will tend to make you look pretty suspicious.
I’m not asking for adopter addresses but most rescues can and do show follow up pictures and many adopters are proud to brag about their new babies and are online doing so.
“Robert Dignum
Those horses were all but dead when they got them! ”
This from their Facebook site. It’s a side note, really, but have you ever noticed that people will argue the oddest things? I don’t really see why it matters if the horses were all but dead, or bouncing in perfect health. If they are in fact dead now, it would be nice to know WHY. What their condition was when they showed up really doesn’t have much of a bearing on whether they are euthanized a month or two months later, unless that condition is documented as having not improved. I’ve taken quite a few horses from BS of 1 up to healthy and chunky 5′s and 6′s, and I’m not an actual rescue. There are also horses that don’t gain, don’t respond, or develop other issues. However, if 18 or so horses magically have problems at a rescue that require euthanizing, then I’m sorry, that rescue (or Uh… ‘educational facility’… ahem) needs to do their explaining. Fast.
I don’t mean to be negative so much, but does anyone else see exactly why so many people who aren’t taking the best care of their animals fight like hell to keep them from being taken away? I’m not condoning mistreatment, just saying– kinda hard to talk people into giving up their animals when supposedly legit organizations put the animals down as soon as the poor things leave their owner’s possession.
Well, yeah. I mean, they’re supposed to be confiscated and go somewhere better, to have a chance. Darlene could have euthed them herself, too. That’s not too complicated.
Why do I get the feeling that they have euthed the poor horses they dont think where worth the feed and hidden the “Valuable” ones with friends for Darlene. The middle of the road horses are the ones on the property still that you can adopt for the right price if you ask the right questions and show up with the right amount of money and a trailer. I wouldnt be surprised if Fugs had a great big story bust on this in a few months and all of this was true
<3 's ya fugs!!
That is disappointing. Did you get any straight answers about how many they put down, and why?
No, they have refused to give any details to anyone about anything. That is why I am bitching.
C’mon it’s not that hard. Put down due to colic, put down due to laminitis, put down due to Cushing’s, put down because it ate two volunteers and kicked the shoer in the head…there ought to be a reason you deemed it ready to euthanize or otherwise unadoptable.
“put down due to Cushing’s
That’s a bit of a stretch even for me.
Eh, there are horses I’ve seen being limped along with Pergoglide and shoeing that looked to me like they’d be happier going to the eternal sleep. I’ve definitely seen it. And Pergoglide is expensive. At least it’s a REASON.
But ugly? It’s not like it costs more to feed them when they’re ugly? And how do you even know what they are going to look like once they’re fit and muscled up? You don’t.
Well first of all, the drug is PERGOLIDE and can it can be had for ~$20/month at many compounding pharmacies. It used to be sort of expensive when only the brand name, Permax, was available (for about $150/month for 1 mg/day).
That lovely grey at Mid Atlantic looks lame to me despite their assurances the old nail injury through the navicular bone is not causing a problem. Also sounds bogus that someone spent “10s of thousands of dollars” at the time of the original injury but didn’t know where the injury was? Nor did this “loving owner” seem to both hiring a competent
farrier?
Well they’re pretty honest about him needing light work on soft footing so it’s not like they’re not disclosing it. He sounds like a nice sort of packer horse available for free lease – probably great for a beginner or timid adult returning to riding.
Oh trust me you can spend THOUSANDS and not find out the real problem. My friend has a retirement farm and she has horses there that people spent 5 figures in vet on before they got a true diagnosis, or never did – they just gave up and retired the horse.
Exactly the same with humans. That’s why “Mystery Diagnosis” is such a good show. Those poor people go years without knowing what’s wrong with them in some cases.
Ripleys did put on their facebook sometime last week that if they could not find homes for 5 of the horses they would be euthanized. Someone removed the post due to the ensuing uproar.
Has anyone tried demanding their financial statements in legalese yet? If they’re a 501 (c) 3, then like you said they have to give the financials up at the public’s request. Maybe someone could identify payments made for carcass disposal and track down at least numbers of horses that way by finding out what the charge per carcass disposed of is vs how much they paid? Grisly but maybe would at least give some closure.
Also, aren’t horses “assets” and don’t nonprofits have to track the dispersal of assets and provide those records on request?
Someone should take up a collection to hire a lawyer to write a very stern legalese letter demanding a full accounting for the whereabouts of each horse taken in, along with detailed financial statements. It’d be under $500 and I’d pitch in a few bucks in honor of my late Arab mare.
My resident bean counter who does a lot of accounting for non-profits says that yes, the horses would be considered assets and would have to be accounted for accordingly. And, those finacials must be current, readily available and have an outside audit at least every other year. I can’t find a website for Ripley’s or any contact info. I’m not an attorney but I am a paralegal and my partner is a bookkeeper and we’d be happy to make the appropriate inquiries! Can anybody point me to current contact info? If not I’ll track then via state records.
http://www.freewebs.com/rhaf/ s the website given in the blog at the top.
This is their facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ripleys-Horse-Aid-Foundation/112493802095833
=)
thanks…I found them last night and shot off an email requesting financials & a list of their board of directors. If they don’t provide the info my next step will be to chat with the IRS.
Madness, I hope they get sh*t thrown at them from all directions!
Especially since now it has been confirmed that the horses have been destroyed >:(
I hope you’re able to find some actual records. It looks like now euthanasia of some 10 of them is confirmed–can we find records that any vet care was given? That training was offered? That ANYTHING was tried before euthanizing? And if the records show that indeed horses were euthed for being “ugly” without even being given a chance… can we publish those records EVERYWHERE that someone might possibly see them and change their mind about giving money or time to this “rescue?”
This isn’t a rare thing really, but I’m still beyond furious. Hell, in my state there’s a “rescue” still operating that has held AUCTIONS for their horses, and the owner has been charged with animal cruelty (got off thanks to an all male all cowboy jury and an expensive lawyer) and threatened the life of the woman who documented his cruelty. Oh, and he abuses his 501 (c) 3 regularly, has been taped doing so, and IRS hasn’t yanked it. This kind of thing happens everywhere. But I’m still incredibly angry about it!
I’m a CPA and wanted to add something about the requirement of an independent audit for non-profits. If the NFP gets any sort of government funding, they are required to have an external audit annually and they must disclose where the money came from and how the funds were allocated.
I thought you might find this interesting:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/1810649026.html
“Please … I am seeing many horses being sold for “breeding stock” …. usually very cheap that are UN Papered….
even if they are quality animals, please do not breed them. You will have a very difficult time selling any foals at all…. The papered horses are not even selling right now!
When buying please keep in mind that if you breed unpapered stock then it may be VERY difficult to sell them , and unlikely you will get a decent price ( a $300 broodmare unpapered will produce a $300 foal AT BEST!) so…. please please please…. with the economy like it is, if you breed at all, do not breed un- papered stock…. use them for pleasure show pets etc….
Keep in mind you will never be able to show an unpapered Paint in a paint show, nor an unpapered Arab in an Arabian breed show nor an unpapered mini in a miniature horse breed show. I suppose that some registries would allow you to hardship register a horse at great expense, but don’t count on it.
And selling a horse without papers as “breeding stock” is misleading too…. MANY stallion owners will not breed their horses to unregistered mares at all, so your pick of stallions will also be much narrower. I would never breed my stallions to an un-papered mare and even screen mares for quality, as that mares get will be representing my stallion! And right now I am not taking ANY outside breedings and limiting my own breedings to see what the economy does. So think it through if you are buying for that purpose …..
”
ALSO if you must sell cheap PLEASE for the future of the horse… if you have the papers…. sell WITH PAPERS!!!!! Do not let your pride get in the way of this horse having a good future.”
Glad to see they posted that. You never know who you may educate!
Prince is absolutely gorgeous! And what great moves!
One of the issues here is that SAFE actually offered to take a few and RHAF said they did not need any help.
When you are euthing for lack of space/funds or whatever, you DO need help and SHOULD have taken it.
It does not make any sense. Also, RHAF insisted upon taking the three horses from the initial quarantine barn (they did not have to leave, the barn was happy to keep them) and now two of those are unaccounted for.
Being a neighbor down the road from Darlenes (i have to pass her place to get to the main road) it wouldnt surprise me to find out the horses were euth’d for health reasons. We have watched those horses starve for years. That has ton have long term affects. Me and my friend took the pictures that that were sent to you .( ’07 or 08 I think) One was of a hoof curling up and a skinny chestnut with a purple halter. Our trimmer has actually offered her services and took some videos of a couple of the horses. it seems pretty strange that Ripley’s would not give any info. But in the past Darlene’s friends have managed to find out about planned seizures so they never happened or she would start putting hay out & AC would come out but never seize anything. maybe they are just trying to be careful.
Yeah, I have no doubt there were some euths that were necessary. But then, hey, just say so. Like I did. Like SAFE does. Like Second Chance Ranch does. It should not be highly classified information why horses get euthed. Why hide it unless you have something to hide, like maybe it’s true that you euthed some because you thought they were “ugly?”
do you honestly think that a program dedicated to funding services to horseowners in trouble would advocate euthanizing a horse because it is ugly? do you hear yourself? By the way, the person who said this was relieved from being a volunteer because of inappropriate behavior. He is also an ex-felon. You are being part of the “mob mentality”.
Yeah, because it was probably very scary to them to be responsible for a whole bunch of horses. They normally provide aid – they don’t take on the 24/7 care of a bunch of emaciated horses with special needs. I believe the “ugly” comment was made. I believe horses were euthed for merely being unadoptable as-is. Hey wait, YOU are the one who said THAT, aren’t you? Are you a crazy ex-felon too?
“The following information must be included to verify **legitimate** inquiries. Your name, city, state, and county, your question.”
Okay, so what is a *legitimate* question and who gets to decide? I’m sending an email to inquire but between that statement and “RHAF has a no-kill policy for **adoptable** equines.” I’m not going to be surprised if I’m told my question is not *legitimate* or if I’m given some kind of non-answer answer b/c they seem to be very good at these.
I mean seriously??? My 5 year old knows that the quickest way to get me to come find out what he’s up to is to NOT answer when I ask him what’s going on!! How can they possibly think not answering these questions is a good idea? Don’t they know it makes them look guilty as sin whether they are or not??? And seriously, how could they possibly think that with a case that has had this much attention that people weren’t going to want to know these things??? I am completely flabbergasted by this one!
And furthermore, there is an easy way not to have all of this drama:
Just put out a list of the horses:
Horse
Age
Sex
Color
Markings
Physical Condition
Level of Training
Current Status
Needs adopter/foster?
Why is that hard to do?
“Ripley’s Horse Aid Foundation is an all volunteer 501-C-3 charity. It is not a rescue. It is a neglect prevention organization that creates and implements innovative programs that fill the holes in the community’s equine safety net. It provides short term assistance to equines in need and promotes owner responsibility, thus reducing the number of equines needing rescue services. ”
Translation– we will stand and talk to the abusers or neglectful people. We will tell them what they should be doing right. But if a horse actually needs rescued, forget it.
They state point blank that they are not a rescue. Why in the hell were they given the horses? Want to bet that they somehow managed to get the previous owner to agree to put down a bunch of the horses?
I want to create my OWN NFP organization, where I stand around and talk and talk at people, and call it education.
I’ve never seen the word equine(s) used quite so much. We just call them horse(s).
Hmmm… not much of a personal touch, is there? Sort of like her comment about how Euthing is a bitch, but somebody has to do it?
Yeah, but “equine” is the proper word. “Equine” means horses, mules, donkeys… If they just said “horses” then one could assume that mules and donkeys need not apply. I don’t consider the word “equine” as impersonal…
wow…you assume a lot, don’t you. You assume you know what Ripley’s does….you don’t know. What you do know is how to tarnish a program’s reputation that has done nothing but good for horses in Washington for the last 4 years, providing services of feed, castrations, teeth floats and more to horseowners who can’t afford it. Perhaps this case could have been handled differently and more information been released to the public. No one was willing to handle this case, which had been in dire straits for the last 3 years. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to put in their two cents of criticism & judgement. Don’t you have anything better to do? sorry but being someone who has worked with Ripley’s, I’m really getting tired of reading this b.s. from people who go by what they read in a paper who got the story from an ex-felon disgruntled ex-volunteer.
You are the one who does not have the story straight. There were a lot of people interested in helping Darlene’s horses. They never had a chance to do so. The horses were never offered up to the people on ABN and other Arabian-centric boards, who had expressed interest in the past in giving foster or adoptive homes. Then there is Save a Forgotten Equine whose offer to help was TURNED DOWN by Ripley’s. That makes no sense.
This is not that one person has been able to smear a good organization. This is about the fact that the organization euthanized 10 horses without giving them anything remotely resembling a fair chance.
Meow! Thank you thank you thank you for covering this trainwreck. It had been confirmed now that 10 of the horses have been euthanized. For shame, theres really nothing else to say. On the note of the 3 PCAC seizures that Rose snatched from the PCAC contracted barn – (massively media motivated move imo), and yes, two of those horses are on the “unaccounted” list. Gee, what do you want to bet Darlene Wilson will get off on the cruelty charges now, as the chain of evidence on those horses is now done for. Like Fugly mentioned, for a woman who built her “rescuer” reputation on the back of HFH’s ethically unsound moves; Hey Rose – Pot meet Kettle.
WHERE has it been confirmed??
Here’s the article, sorry for the delay – it just went live:
http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=30&SubSectionID=46&ArticleID=2724&TM=71613.69
OMG, they thought that some of the horses were TOO UGLY!?!?!?!?!?!? You have got to BE KIDDING ME!!! Dangerous, yes. Severely injured, yes. Too ugly? Give me a F-ing break. What a fine breed of morons.
Props to the fella who called this laughable group out.
How was it confirmed? Any reasons given for the decisions, beyond “Oh, they weren’t adoptable”?
If you can’t take the time to rehab and rehome an animal, then DON’T offer to take it. But then again, Ripley must have known that, in all their educational data.
Believe it Or Not, indeed….
According to the whistleblower in the article:
Others were euthanized because they were deemed ugly, and not appealing to the eye, he said. “They decided they’d have trouble placing those horses,” added Erickson, who says he left Ripley’s and the rescue operation in mid-May due to the euthanasia program.
Anyone else think that that’s really not an acceptable reason?
0 likes
Well duh.
By the way, I have adopted out an example of anything “ugly” you care to name. Big heads, major sway backs, etc. THAT does not make them unadoptable. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and many a person (me included!) falls in love with a fugly rescue horse.
Hey, I rescued THIS…and loved her til her legs started giving out and she had to be put to sleep.
Now see, I was all set to cheer when they took her horses away. Who honestly thinks ANY judge is going to condone removing the rest of her horses, when Ripleys just killed at least half of the horses they received from her already. I’m just beyond furious at this. I know I’m not anywhere close, but that’s probably a good thing– I’d hate to be close enough to form a picket or something worse.
BTW, seems to me there is some recourse in this situation, since Ripleys states they are not a rescue, yet they took and euthed a dozen horses without documentation. The horses were combative? Ya think? Did you people think you would rescue the little sweethearts and they would fall into your lap and purr? Hello, they were FERAL horses. If you aren’t prepared to rehab that type of rescue, then don’t take it. Period.
Damn. Now I’m really pissed.
BTW, ever hear the story of the kid who was trying to give away the kittens? He had no luck with the typical “Free to good home, five cute kittens”. So he changed his sign to, “For sale, four cute kittens and one ugly one.” His dad came home and the kittens were gone. “You mean you gave them all away?” “Nope. I couldn’t give the cute ones away, so I sold the ugly one five times.”
I hate to say it but this place sounds like a bunch of rank amateurs totally clueless about horses or how to handle them. The whole dam thing is a train wreck from Darlene Wilson down.
WTF kind of logic is this?
“There are certain euthanasia that do not need a determination,” Are you folks in Roy just born dumb or beat into it? How does something like that fall out of ones mouth? It sounds like good old mom should have made that same decision herself in the hospital.
*headdesk*
Hey I live in Roy . Just because some people are morons doesn’t mean we all are!!! We are not all “Darlene Wilsons”. There are stupid people everywhere,which of course is obvious because we all read this blog. No one is angier than the people who live here & have been trying to get someone to take action. We have written & called & taken pictures,every. damn. year.
Oh I know it. Darlene would NEVER have been caught starving horses if not for the neighbors who kept up the pressure. The problem is Pierce County’s solution seems to have sucked.
Um, what kind of horse was she? We had our own ugly horse, a buckskin mare that looked like a donkey. She was beautiful to us and a once-in-a-lifetime horse.
No clue. She was free on CL in January 2007, thin as a rail. I picked her up and owned her til she had to be PTS in spring 2009. She was well over 30 and greatly enjoyed her two years of mush-eating retirement.
Well, she has a sort of primal appeal. Except for the color, a Preszewalski’s (sp?) throwback. Cute.
Przewalski’s Horse
They actually have a way shorter neck and are smaller to begin with. They also have an erect mane and some other exterior differences, but the small bum and large head matches xD
Good lord, that is one fugly girl! Looks like she’s a redhead, I know you can’t resist those!
That is ridiculous! Euthanized because they are ugly? I read that and couldn’t believe it. Six months ago I rescued a very ugly, neglected, malnourished gelding with “big head syndrome”. Today he is drop dead gorgeous! He was properly rehabbed and given TIME to get healthy. These Ripley’s people are sick.
Ripley’s Believe It or Not……..LOL
Guess what Rose and Wilma, NOT.
This is precisely why I do NOT go to auctions or rescue ranches because I would want to take EVERYTHING home. To operate a good rescue, you have to confine your “search” at the feedlot or sale to whatever you think will be adoptable based on a quick visual of the horse. If there are soundness or (perceived) personality issues, you would be wise to pass up those animals. They will need time and veterinary care, and time is money.
Discretionary income/donations only go so far, and there is also the issue of your time per horse just to feed and groom it as well as clean the stall or pen. That doesn’t take into account the training or time spent assessing the horse’s suitability. You have to do more than figure out whether it’s rideable or not. Is it a kid’s horse? Suitable for gymkhana? Can it be a lower level hunter/event prospect? Etc.
People who get into the rescue game are often clueless about the REAL work of rescue that starts before the horses unload off the trailer. If a rescue has a waiting list of volunteers, great, but management still needs to oversee them and their work and fill in if they don’t show up.
For now my dream of a “half-way house” for OTTBs is just that, a DREAM. I fantasize about it and then go outside to care for the ONE former racehorse I own. He fell into a tub of butter 12 years ago next month, and he shows his appreciation every single day.
Duh. Forgot the point of the reply above ;o)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and what is ugly to one person is the most gorgeous thing to someone else. Looks alone are not a reason to euthanize. If the conformation is an issue due to soundness or comfort, that is something else again.
Does anyone know the EIN for the RHAF? If you donated and claimed the deduction I think you needed it for your tax return. This would help me see what I can ferret out.
Ok, from a quick search- they haven’t filed a 990 since 2007. They’ll have probably filed the dinky version, the 990N this year, since you have to, but it doesn’t ask for a lot of info. Basically, if your gross receipts are under 25,000, the IRS doesn’t care. State of Washington may be different.
I am not really responding to your post – it just happens to be the most relevant one here. AFAIK, the only thing a 501(c)(3) needs to disclose is its Form 990 tax return and application for exemption, and there are exceptions. I’ve skimmed the 990 and my guess is that it won’t tell you anything you really want to know.
There is no requirement that all financials be made available on public request, or that any other documents/information be furnished. If you want an independent audit report and/or the books, you’d best condition a donation on receipt of that information beforehand.
Breaking News, rumors confirmed.
http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=30&SubSectionID=46&ArticleID=2724&TM=71613.69
Others were euthanized because they were deemed ugly, and not appealing to the eye, he said. “They decided they’d have trouble placing those horses,” added Erickson, who says he left Ripley’s and the rescue operation in mid-May due to the euthanasia program.
Y’all have got to be kidding me. Ugly and not appealing to the eye? And here we thought rescue horses were all gorgeous with perfect heads! I hope this guy is wrong but the way they’re stonewalling makes me suspect he’s not…
So does anyone know if any of the horses have been adopted out at all? I emailed the CEO of Ripley’s about the whereabouts and well being of the Roy horses. The response was vague. I was told they only have 5 of them in training and that some were euthed due to medical and/or behavioral issues. So if there were 28 originally and they only have 5 now does that mean 23 of them were euthanized???
I know some people who have read my comments before will know of my past with days end. This reminds me somewhat of when those two brats were (and still as, as I understand) spreading a bunch of crap about how DEFHR was putting perfectly okay animals to sleep and how terrible it was. I knew all of those horses personally and was not surprised to hear that after years of trying to turn them into sane, okay horses.. they failed. And of course this wasn’t DEFHRS or the horses’ fault in any way- it was the fault of whatever wastes of space that had neglected and mistreated them.
Unfixable, never going to get better knee problems, random bursts of intense rage towards horses and humans alike, undiminishing, intense fear or ptsd like symptoms.. the list can go on and on and proper things were done, as you said. No amount of quality training, supplements, medicines, or waiting it out was going to ‘fix’ these poor animals. And there is no reason that they should be ashamed when days end finally said ‘maybe we should think about euthing some of these horses to make room for the ones we CAN help.’ I feel for them because I KNOW that no one wanted to do it.. but it had to be done. It was for the better of the horses in question, and the horses who had yet to come through the front gate. We always made sure that even the crazies and the gimps got even EXTRA love and attention because everyone felt terrible when a horse was that messed up. I remember sitting outside the stall of one nut job; singing to him on my short breaks and always slipping a carrot into his feedbin. He would do his best to kill anyone who wasn’t on the other side of a wall.. and days end had spent so much time and training on him and everything was exhausted and you could just tell his quality of life was a bummer. He was so terrified of everything always, and so angry towards any living thing that I could only imagine the pain he had suffered.
There is nothing wrong with admitting this. There is good in giving them a kind, peaceful death by shot after you have done all you can.
I thought of that too. I defended DEFHR as you probably remember because it sounded like they had used good judgment and given the horses a fair chance.
I hated having to be in that situation. It sucks, there’s no way NOT to feel guilty. You want to be able to fix them all.
The one I had had been through starvation, neglect and a crazy women who practiced bestiality before I got her. I would have loved to have waved a magic wand and made her ok again but I tried for quite a while and other qualified people tried and it simply did not happen.
I guess my question is, did they do all they could? They didn’t have the horses for that long.
THAT is what pisses me off. I train horses. Lots of people on here train horses. How many months are we told to let a race horse detox and unwind from the track? AT LEAST 3 months. Most places recommend 6 months. And those are horses who just have their mind in the race game. They aren’t starved, neglected, unhandled horses.
So did these horses even get two months? Less? How the heck do you call yourself a rescue if you can’t even be patient enough to let a half wild, sick horse time to find itself? Yes, I have seen the crackerjack horses with no brain, or worse yet, a great brain devoted to exactly how they can pay you back for years of abuse. I know that.
12 horses had behavioral issues? Really? In training parlance we call that a wannabe training facility. So Ripleys isn’t a rescue. They aren’t a training facility. They don’t rehab. What the heck DO they do? Hand out pamphlets on animal care to people who can’t read?
With the horse who body slammed the girl, I am wondering if it was a stud…in which case gelding it will usually work wonders for those issues, after a few months have passed.
I wasn’t there, so I don’t know. Maybe it honestly pinned her and attacked her. But I DO know that I have to train my horses to give way to me in the trailer (I have a stock trailer, and I walk between two horses to get to the back door). I take my time, I teach them, and it’s fine. But untrained, they will lean on whoever pushes against them, to the point of pinning or crushing whoever is trying to get by. They just don’t understand what is going wrong, and they push harder and harder– it’s the reason I teach them specifically for my trailer, so that I don’t get hurt. I KNOW it’s a possibility.
I’m not saying that is what this horse they talk about did, but if it took two people to peel the horse away from the wall, I almost wonder.
Once my dressage trainer pointed out to me that in the wild, when a horse feels pressure, it’s a natural defense mechanism for them to lean INTO it (if it was a predator’s jaws, for example, they are forced to open wider and yet if the horse pulls away, the lose a chunk of hide). This was her response when I asked why all of the green horses seem to lean INTO pressure at first and we have to TRAIN them to step away from it.
Made sense to me. I have no idea if it’s true. But I do know that horses aren’t born knowing how to move away from pressure, they have to be taught that.
I know, Charm. I used to ride a mare as a teen who scared the cr*p out of me. She pinned me so hard, she knocked the wind out of me. She was in a standing stall. I hit her really hard to get her off me.
The next time I came in her stall at a different angle, and realized it was her extremely motherly version of a hug. The first time, she hadn’t been able to get her neck around me, so she substituted her shoulder. Once I had her outside, she’d actually wrap her entire, very long neck around my waist.
I was her foal!
Hell, even if it wasn’t a stud, that’s no excuse to euthanize if it happened ONE TIME. My gelding did the same thing the first time I pulled his mane. OK, so he’s sensitive. I aced him and did the mane the right way while he was sleepy, and then slowly taught him to stand for me pulling a chunk or two at a time and giving cookies in between. He still dances and fidgets and hates it, but he’s not dangerous to pull anymore.
This horse was probably frightened and/or in pain. If it body slammed people every time they came near it for months on end, sure, euth it. But one time when scared? You ask “What did I do to cause that?” and don’t do it again. And carry a dressage whip when working between that horse and a wall for a while.
Amen on the dressage whip! You can wield a lot of influence with one little dressage whip.
JDforall, Fhotd, and the host of this website, you are all on a witch-hunt. Are you members of PETA or something? Ripley’s made some difficult decisions when they felt there were no alternatives left for them, financially or otherwise. The great volunteer who fed the reporter all his facts was dismissed from his position because of inappropriate behaviour, he is also an ex-felon. No they are not a rescue, but they have helped countless horseowners in Washington state over the last several years. They stepped in because nobody else would, and now they are being crucified because of the decisions to euthanize several of the horses because they were unadoptable at the time of removal. Would any of you, if you had known, gone in immediately and taken one of the unhandleable horses to your barn and spent the $$ it would take for training and gentling, or taken one of the horses that was medically far gone and spent the $$ to bring it back although you would probably never be able to use him? I highly doubt it. You people who love to pass judgement and ruin the reputation of an organization that actually DOES help horses thruout the state, usually are not the people who are willing to volunteer time & money to help. It’s very convenient how the host of this website posts his great views and opinions right there at the top, everybody else has to make a “comment”. Ripley’s has done nothing illegal, they are impeccable at reporting their finances, they have no 990 because they have not brought in over $25,000 in a year for you geniuses that are asking for that information, they struggle to fundraise to help horses & horseowners with live giving services, and it really pains me and everyone who has worked with them to witness this “witch hunt”. Shame on you.
ROTFL! ROTFL! ROTFL!
The PETA defense!
What is next, the Hitler analogy?
Ten horses is “several” and it’s ok to euthanize merely because a horse is unadoptable AT THE TIME OF REMOVAL? Well shit, they’re ALL unadoptable at the time of removal!!! That’s WHY THEY GET REMOVED!
You, sir, ma’am, whatever you are, are an idiot.
And by the way my name is Cathy Atkinson, and I am a woman. The reason I get to post my views and everybody else gets to make comments is because it’s MY BLOG. You seem to be kind of confused about how that works.
Cathy Atkinson, you seem to be confused on who “the idiot” is…..wow, good for you, you have a blog where you can ramble on and get others to join in on it. You must be very proud of your accomplishments.
I have the most popular horse related blog in the world. I’m very proud indeed, thanks!
All I keep seeing is HOW THEY ARENT A RESCUE……Then why the hell where they allowed to rescue the horses?? If they couldnt handle the job then why not take their own advice and only take the select few that they thought where adoptable and let the other “Actual RESCUES” do what they do best and RESCUE the other ones. This is what really burns my toast!!!!!!! These could have been nice REGISTERED horses. That, in time, could have been trained and really used by people who wanted something more than the heinz 57 pony at the auction. Something that they can find parents on and relate with through bloodlines and show records!!!
SO yes, Fugs lets us all have our own opinions here, that way we can weed out the stupids……Hitler, LOL…..I wont even type what I’m thinking
If your curious about a non profit groups tax return, try here: http://www2.guidestar.org/ free sign up is required.
In this case, they didn’t have to file one, so they haven’t since 2007. The IRS doesn’t need your detailed information if your 501c(3) clears less than 25,000/year.
“Gee, what do you want to bet Darlene Wilson will get off on the cruelty charges now, as the chain of evidence on those horses is now done for.”
What are you talking about??? Not to defend anyone claiming to rescue horses then killing them, but do you even know what chain of evidence means???
The minute animals are remove from a neglect/abuse situation and start to be fed and treated, the evidence of the neglect/abuse is gone. Any investigation worth its salt has plenty of evidence in pictures and expert witnesses ie: Vets.
The chain of evidence is WHO handles the evidence and where it has been since it was gathered. If it ends with the death of the animal it doesn’t destroy the case.
Very few counties can afford to keep animals while the criminal case is creeping its way through the justice system. Every case I know of the animals are awarded to the county, turned over to a rescue, and then adopted. NEVER should they be held for months or years “as evidence”. What county budget can afford to pay the thousands of dollars it would take to maintain the animals until a case is concluded.
You could be right – we’ll see. I certainly hope the fact that two of the three seized horses were put down (without a veterinary consult) won’t affect the case, but this is a rather botched situation. What Darlene Wilson did to these horses was beyond a shadow of a doubt cruelty, but the disaster this has become will make it difficult for PCAC to document the chain of events.
This isn’t the first time PCAC has comletely botched a “rescue” attempt. A couple of years ago 9 or 10 horses were seized from a farm in Eatonville – surprise surprise. They were sent to a foster facility in Snohomish County and Pierce County tax payers paid $300 per month for each horse that went to the facility. Private persons offered to take the horse in, but they were all sent to Snohmish.
From what I remember, they were in foster care for 2 months before returning to Pierce County. Upon return the horses were all emaciated and had not received any care the entire time they were gone. Another fail for Animal Control. We all realize funds are tight and all government agenices are cutting back, but isn’t it about time counties start providing horse experienced personnel for dealing with all these equine related cases?
Hello!! Before and After pics- for example the Three Strikes case- Cowboy Joe says his horses are dying from poisoning, everyone else says they’re starving, take horses out of the situation, give them some food, wha-lah, horses are gaining weight and thriving.
Sorry- I was responding to the “evidence of neglect being gone” once a horse is re-habbed.
Wait. Wait. Wait…. Did they truly euth some of the horses because they THOUGHT THEY WERE UGLY? What… the… F…?
I’m still trying to figure out what an ugly Arabian looks like….
Weaners and Yearlings of any breed can go through an ugly stage, and Arabs can look especially umm, weird during that phase, but truly ugly? not possible. Hell, NO horse is ever so ugly they don’t deserve a chance!
I gotta stop going to this blog. Never would I have thought there are SO many idiots in the world. Damn depressing! Ugly Arabian? Hardly ever happens. Nuts? Possibly, but the bitch didn’t even have them long enough to really, REALLY know if they were ALL nuts! Wonder if her version of euthanasia is “sending them to the killers?” I guess if there’s enough of an uproar RHAF won’t be getting any more horses, and maybe even be audited by IRS? Sigh…we can only hope, at this point!
From the article,
“I cannot make a statement on that [the allegations] due to our privacy policies and protocols,” she told The Dispatch, adding that she felt bound to “protect the privacy of our client, Darlene Wilson.”
So Darlene Wilson is their client now? Since when does a non-profit horse group have horse hoarders as clients and protect them after the public has donated money to care for the hoarder’s horses?
First Darlene Wilson is not a ‘hoarder.” She has been a respected breeder, trainer and in her day “rescuer.” She has endured some terrible injuries and illnesses in the last few years; that combined with the down turn in the economy have left her in a bad way. She let her own health go to the point that she almost died to buy hay. She has been trying for several years to get her herd down; she hasn’t bred anything in over three years and in the last few years she did get her herd down by about 20%, but her inability to move about has greatly hampered her and the person she was paying to care for the horses simply wasn’t doing the job. Rose Corey’s excuse of “protecting the client” is a joke! Darlene would never have agreed to letting Rose take them if she had known they would be euthanized–she could have done that herself. She didn’t really want to let Rose take the horses, but was due to go into the hospital again and need to do something with them–obviously what had been done up to that point was not sufficient. She would have preferred to find them homes for herself, but again–health issues and after the newspaper stated she was an abuser, nobody would come near; the excuse was that PCAC didn’t want any of horses to leave the property. This is simply not the case–Darlene was free to re-home any that she wished, but Rose seemed to be the only option. Rose assured Darlene that they would find the horses good home and check out any prospective owner carefully. In fact that was a lie. One of the adopter was the very person who was suppose to be caring for the horses at Darlene’s when they got into the state that animal control found–good one Rose! These were mostly young horses ages 4-6; they were well bred–several had a sire that was exported overseas, and while perhaps they hadn’t had a lot of handling recently, all were halter broken as weanlings and in the past had had their feet done by a farrier. Like someone else said, ” Were they euthanized or did they get “shipped?” Darlene turned down a “buyer” (read agent of the Enumclaw Horse Auction) for the whole herd at $75 a head. Now if money was her objective she could have let them go, and many people were certainly encouraging her to do so, but she was HOPING to give her horses a better future than that. All of you who sit in judgment on Darlene without knowing the facts–I truly hope you never find yourselves in this type of situation–I warn you, it can happen in the blink of an eye–bad things happen to good people.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about and/or are protecting her. I cannot tell you how many people have complained to me about Darlene starving her horses, not getting hoof care, etc. for years.
Here’s some proof that she is NOT a reputable breeder: NO PAPERS! None of those young horses are registered.
IF she was having a tough time, WHY did she not STOP BREEDING and GIVE THE HORSES AWAY?
No, your buddy stomped her little foot and DEMANDED ridiculous prices DESPITE the fact she COULD NOT CARE FOR THEM. She would rather they suffered than let someone else have them.
And no, it doesn’t happen in the blink of an eye. Most elderly unemployed people have better SENSE than to try to own dozens of horses! Holy crap, I have a good job and I’d NEVER try to own as many horses as Darlene had. I wouldn’t try to own a quarter of that many.
“Others were euthanized because they were deemed ugly, and not appealing to the eye.”
Would it be alright to critique the fine folks at Ripley’s? Maybe dole out IQ tests, hold a beauty pageant, and body fat assessments. Or, is being ugly/stupid/an undesirable body type only fatal if you’re a horse? Freaky, their opinion literally meant life and death for horses supposedly rescued, then they don’t feel obligated to justify their assessments. If held to the same standards, they might feel differently.
Has anybody received an actual answer from this group yet? If not, this group is in Washington, correct?
My uncle is an Auditor for the Washington State IRS. Pretty sure he’d tell me exactly what to ask to get them to talk, and might even have access to the public records/tax returns/anything he’s legally allowed to share with the public.
Well, it sure would bear a good look by your uncle. They plainly state that they aren’t a rescue on their website, then they rescue horses, then they euth the horses, and all in the name of a not for profit organization?
I’m so sorry to hear about Abbey/Ivy. Thank you for helping this innocent soul and giving her a chance! She had such a long and sad history that it is hard to tell where she went past the point of no return. I met Abbey in 2007. At the time she was easy to work with and seemed to get along well with older mares. Her time at PEC was not at all kind to her (nor was her time at CBER or their foster homes). RIP sweet Abbey.
I think the home before me just thought that this was typical for Thoroughbreds and that she needed to be in more experienced hands. And indeed, her behavior could resemble a horse detoxing from the track – but she had never been there and, in any event, had been in a good and stress free home for almost a year before I got her. I had her nine months and while, just like Little Miss, she had days when she was great, she also had days when she did things like kick someone in the stomach for daring to be in her pasture trying to catch another horse, or run another horse through a fence. Ultimately, her old hind leg injury from the CBER adoptive home was giving her a lot of grief (running herself through field fence certainly did not help it any) and the combination of factors led us to the decision to put her to sleep. On the plus side, she really did have a nice last year and a half in her two last homes – well fed and well cared for.
We should be careful with the facts here, this is a major big deal cluster Foxtrot (as G Gordon used to say). If half the facts are true then well… Note in that vein that Bruce Smith at the dispatch is a paper delivery man who writes articles.
However PCAC has hated Rose ever since the mess she created over the Dona Gale horses. The “equine rescue network” that she pushed as an alternative to Hope For Horses is a complete shambles. All the Horse Summit’s were a joke and meant to deal with citizen activists.
The Darlene Wilson case is a disaster because of her. Pierce County is now at the lowest point it could be. Animal control has failed and the citizens of Pierce County have failed. Rose Corey is at the center of the mess but everyone involved over the last 2 1/2 years shares in this responsibility. Shame on you all.
Agreed. The facts may not all be the facts they seem. Bruce Smith, the writer for the Dispatch, reports stories but his info is not always 100% accurate. His information is somewhat accurate most of the time. I’m going to take his article as how it is presented – accusation.
The description of the accused abuser as their “client” is very interesting. What exactly is going on with these people? They’re not a “rescue”, abusers are “clients,” and horses are euthanized for being “ugly.” Also everyone connected with them has a fancy bullshit title.
Lets not forget that the horses were legally relinquished to this group: Pegasus Program. I’d like to see some accountabilty on their end. RHAF was a “foster and assistance” partner. Pegasus Program should have been paying better attention imo – and should still hold some responsibility for what they let happen. Ignorance isn’t an excuse – pull off the blinders.
http://pegasusprogram.com
“The Pegasus Program is an Educational, Equestrian, Mentoring Program for Youth. A STABLE ENVIRONMENT encourages Healthy Choices, Character Development, and Future Success. ”
They wouldn’t respond to emails, and I see nowhere in that mini-bio a mention of rescuing equines. They work with youth, and do youth (equine based) activities. So why on earth are THEY assuming legal ownership of relinquished equines when thats not part of their 501(3)(c) listed duties or mentioned in their bio? I know they “won” one of the AC contracts to be an approved facility, but how did that happen? Seems fishy, clearly they weren’t a great choice.
These horses were neither rescued or given charity from Ripley’s. They were victimized.
TBs Rock: Again, not defending killing horses that have been seized, but do you have any idea how hard it is to seize someone’s property, much less find a place willing to take in sick, injured, starved horses, and actually take good care of them?
You say it is a FAIL for Animal Control?
Usually it is required by law that people excepting property seized by law enforcement be contracted by the county to do so. This excludes private people from taking in horses or anything else. Unless they are contracted.
While it is very sad that the horses suffered further, it sounds to me like the facility that took the horses failed.
Counties are lucky if they have the money to have experienced people to take care of the humans, much less the animals.
Until you have walked a mile in “Animal Control’s” shoes, I suggest you go easy on your judgements. Until YOU are standing on a road looking at a field with a herd of starving horses wondering where you are going to take them and how the budget is going to cover hauling, Vet, feed and farrier, and if the D.A. is going to back you up, and if the court is going to give you a warrant to seize them, then don’t judge the people that are trying to help them.
I agree..It’s part of my job to work with an animal control agency in the Southwest from time to time. The hoarders, dog fighters, chicken fighters, and horse trippers hate them and do everything the can to discredit them. The animal rescue groups and protection societies criticize the animal control agency constantly because they feel the agency isn’t doing enough to help the animals. Evidence gathering and legal prosecution are incredibly time consuming and expensive. BTW my experience has been that the people who think that “government should be drowned in the bathtub” seem to be the ones who scream the loudest when the government isn’t there when they need the help.
“my experience has been that the people who think that “government should be drowned in the bathtub†seem to be the ones who scream the loudest when the government isn’t there when they need the help.”
————————-
SO true.
Sorry, I don’t see any validity in that. Animal control is responsible for monitoring the situation and being aware of new developments. I guarantee if a foster home where children are placed hurts one, the governing agency and the court system are held responsible for it.
Queenie – Did I not say Animal Control needs people experienced with horses and a better system of dealing with the animals? The original owner of the horses was not taking care of them. PCAC got them and they received the same lack of care at their foster home. The horses were skinnier and sicker two moths after beind seized by AC. And all of this cost tax payer money. Is this acceptable to you?
This has been discussed before: government run animal protection groups need to implement a system for large animals that gives them the same options as small animals. There needs to be a place to take unwanted animals where they will be offered for adoption or humanely euthanized, horses included. Yes, this does cost a lot of money, but so does the program currently offered for unwanted dogs and cats. We are all paying taxes. I’d rather see my money go to helping Animal Control than building a new park in someone else’s neighborhood.
Not that it matters, but I do take in starving, neglected horses. I don’t beg for money from people. I know first hand how much time and effort go into rehabbing horses.
Sorry if this hits too close to home for you, but it is the truth. Horses deserve the same protection as dogs and cats, and they are not getting it.
OMG this has to be a joke right?
I sometimes despair reading this blog.
Who wants to bet they made a couple of bucks running them through the sales. The poor beasts are probably not even dead yet, but on their way to Mexico or Cananda…
I’m not even sure the horses were removed: Go to the Ripley’s site, read how they operate (issue feed/hay vouchers, schedule farrier appointments, etc.) and then go to that Urgent tab where they seem to have an accounting of actions.
“Tried to kill … by pinning to stall wall.”
This is clear evidence that the “wranglers” etc do not know enough to own a TRAINED horse, never mind accept responsibility for working with unhandled ones. They then compounded the situation by PULLING on the head of a horse that wasn’t really halter-broke. Nothing dangerous or malicious in the horse — just ignorance on the part of the people.
Horses must *learn* to give to pressure. Their instinct is to LEAN into pressure. The less handled a horse is, the more likely it is to push against a person — and to push back against pressure on its head from a halter. This is equine behavior 101.
I don’t know the whole situation here, but i suspect that the horse wranglers are not really all that experienced when it comes to dealing with unhandled horses. Part of my old job was to round up the three-year-old field and break them. These horses were not halter broke or humanized. It took about a week of “round-penning” them in their stalls till they were safe enough for the guys to clean there stalls without removing them first. They need to learn how to move out of your space and to then yield to physical pressure. Horses are not born knowing these things. It takes FAR more than a month or two to determine that a hose is inherently dangerous.
You cuss like a sailor.
I just asked them on their Facebook page about eh Darlene Wilson horses. Had to like their page first…yuck…Bet it gets deleted soon and I get flagged. Oh well…some of their 400+ likers may see it first.
Again, if you did not do anything wrong, WHY ARE YOU DELETING ANY DISCUSSION OF IT? Why not just ANSWER?
wtf…seriously…they’re all the same…so predictable.
Oh MAN.
The runaround I got when I called. I am a founding member of what we call the “Charitable Club” at my community college (basically we do fact checking for our relatives ((this all started after a friends grandmother got swindled out of quite a bit of money by a bogus charity)) so that they’re giving to recognized charities, but we do get outside donors sometimes requesting to use our checking and files, and we donate ourselves when we can) and since one of our donors (my relative
) is in Washington State I decided to check these guys out.
They claim to have never filled a 990 (shouldn’t be true, since they’re claiming it’s because they have <$25,000 average income over three years, when IRS procedure clearly states a bare minimum of a 990-EZ should be filled if you have gross receipts of $25,000 for 1 year, as they clearly do on the Washington Secretary of the State's charity database) regardless, I settled for requesting that their application be made available for public inspection (or they can chose to mail me a copy) so that if they violate I will have a lot more leverage with the IRS and can get their supposedly non-existent 990s.
If they don't violate, I'll probably continue to pursue the 990s via certified mail because to be honest, at this point, -they've pissed me off-. I was laughed at (multiple times), told I sounded nervous, told I didn't know what I was talking about, told that they 'were worried I was a phone scam' (lol), etc, etc.
They still didn't give me the address where there files are available for inspection (illegal to not have those available) so yeah, they're pretty deep in it atm, and it's probably even worse than the little slice I got just now.
((In contrast, one of the big donations we sourced a few years ago in our founding year went to LOPE (my grandma enjoys horses almost as much as I do, and she was our primary donor on that one, along with some outside funds actually /yay!) since they're right here in our backyard, and getting their records was a snap. Not only did they provide me the address to go see them (which I did to gain the experience) but they mailed me copies and waived the copying and postage fees they're perfectly allowed to charge. They were wonderful.))
Wombatish, I see they have quoted your above post on their Facebook page. Wonder why?
I can see some low-lives pocket the county feed $$ and not feeding the seized horses… Or feed their own horses. Or double dipping and selling them to slaughter, make a buck there and still getting paid to feed dead horses.
It might be what is happening with some of our wild horses caught by the BLM, gelded then sent to private ranches to live out their lives. With both BLM and ranchers wishing them all dead, it is simply too much for some to see such meat on hooves not “harvestest” and still receive taxpayer $$ through the morally bankrupt BLM which does not keep counts of these horses. At certain OK ranches, wild horses seem to be coming and going and coming and going. It so happens that OK and the the Mexican group named Cattlemen for Excellence (or something like that) have strong ties to OK ranchers and cattle business. In fact that group send calves born in Mexico to be fattened in OK since the gringos got the goods on how to grow and fatten beef fast. It so happens that thousands of geldings labelled not for slaughter by USDA have crossed the border into Mexico beginning in 06 or 07. They can only be our barbarically gelded wild horses.
Horses always seem to pay the ultimate price.
“Others were euthanized because they were deemed ugly, and not appealing to the eye, he said. “They decided they’d have trouble placing those horses” ”
You know, they tend to get a lot prettier after several months of groceries, a bath and a haircut.
Too ugly to be adopted? That really breaks my heart.
The following is from their website. 20 horses euthed. I wonder if those are among the 90 equines ‘assisted’? I think we can do without calling it equine assistance. “Jeb, what are you in jail for?” “Oh, I assisted my wife and her lover.” Btw, anyone else find it interesting that they only gelded and did teeth on 6-10 horses, but they killed off 20?
FYI: 2010 updated 6-16-10
Total assisted: 90 equines
Total vouchers issued: 32
Euthanasia: 20
Carcass removal: 20
Dental: 10
Castration: 6
Farrier: 32 + 5 terminated due to owner not making appiontment, the ACO was notified
Feed Supplements: 83 50# bags
Hay: 27,047 Lbs. = 13.52 ton
Items not listed that have been distributed are salt, weight tapes, special weight gaining products, scoops when needed and care booklet “Cause & Effect”
Because RHAF works via Animal Control this program has a 100% success rate.
Well, I don’t have an issue with euthanasia assistance – it may have been appropriate with regard to the horses it was offered to, like what NorCal does. I just don’t understand how that decision was made so quickly with these Darlene Wilson horses, and without ever taking normal steps to adopt them out. I can believe one or two were dangerous, there’s always that possibility especially given the lack of handling at Darlene’s. But when we are hearing that some got euthed for merely being unattractive (in Ripley’s estimation)? That’s f’ed up.
Euthanasia in the general way of things I understand. I’m just looking at the numbers… 32 vouchers, 32 farrier trims paid, and 20 put down? So 40% of the time, Ripley’s solution is going to be euthanasia? Those aren’t very good odds for a horse rescue– I’m not sure I consider them good odds for an educational program, either.
So what their program teaches is that if something is ugly or not appealing to one person (in charge) you just kill it. If I breed my Dog and I get all red and tan but one ends up albino I should just take it to the vet and have them kill it for me?! This is what they are teaching children through the pegasus program…anything that you don’t like to look at just have it put to sleep.
Never mind that these horses have been placed in your care by the local govt with stipulations and guidelines.
Never mind that that you took them on fully aware that they had very little to NO handling at all and would need hours and months (possibly years) of training before they would be adoptable.
Never mind that other, better prepared (actual) rescues offered to help and take some of the horses to ease your load so that something like this wouldn’t happen.
Accusations are what they are. Horses are dead that where never given proper time or the chance to feel love before they where chased over the rainbow.
I havent seen anyone ask this question so Im gonna….HOW DID THEY MANAGE TO PUT THESE HORSES DOWN??? Im guessing they didnt take much time to work with them and therefor probobely couldnt hold them for a vet the euth or nicely “aim” at them. Please please please please please please please please please please GOD tell me they didnt play target practice or something sick like that!!!!!
Actually, the exact same question went through my mind. If they are so horridly dangerous to handle, how exactly did they get put down?
Agreed. I have only had to euth one horse due to being dangerous… and it was not easy. Actually, it was a yearling pony, and it was still so scary and dangerous that just trying to halter and stick it was a very bad situation for everyone involved. He started trying to attack before anyone even entered the stall. I can’t imagine trying to do that with 10 horses, or the vet that would be willing to do it.
Well, I did suggest the trip to Mexico – Double Pay
See what I mean……..
Whoa. I’ve just finished reading the posts on Fugly, FB, the previous KOMO coverage, and the on-going Dispatch story. This is beginning to sound like a witch hunt and each new accusation is taking on a life of its own. SiIence (from RHAF) does not equal stupidty, weakness, or guilt. I think it would be wise if everyone would take a step back, take a deep breath, and use reason prior to rendering judgement. To begin with, RHAF is NOT a rescue organization, nor have they ever claimed to be a rescue organization. RHAF is NOT an enforcement agency, nor have they ever claimed to be but they do work inconjunction with enforcement agencies when requested and funds are available. While I am not impugning the Dispatch newspaper, does everyone really believe everything spoon fed to them by the media? Really? Does anyone not find it at least mildy intriguing that a person who may have been asked to leave an agency then makes disparaging remarks? Does it seem reasonable that an organization that provides hay, grain, farrier care, dental care, castrations, and other services to horse owners would euthanize horses because they are UGLY? Do you not think that an equine organization so publicly involved and working in cooperation with law enforcement agencies would have staff adequately trained to evaluate the adoptability of horses? How much money is involved in the care and rehabilitation of that many horses with that many problems over a period of a few months? From what I have read funds available for the horses were somewhere in the ballpark of $3,500.00 how long would that last? Where were all of the trainers, foster homes, and adopters when this first started and they were asking for help? Did it ever occur to the person posting on FB that the standards for shelter (for a potential adopter) were too high and tree’s were good enough that the CODE in Pierce County REQUIRES a structure for shelter. Would adopting a horse to someone who did not meet code standard be wise or even legally appropriate for special needs horses? Did it ever occur to anyone that someone involved in a private relinquishment might have a right to privacy for reasons we may not know or understand regardless of their previous contact with law enforcement? As I have read the information, law enforcement was only involved in the seizure of 3 horses then those horses as well as others were RELINQUISHED(surrendered) much as a dog or cat owner might surrender their animals.
I think it is important to stop and think about what is being said and what the goal really is. It seems like many people have the goal of personnally impugning the reputation of “Rose” as well as RHAF. Some people are calling to shut them down. Why try to shut down an organization that helps so many people and so many horses? Then what, then there is no RHAF, no vouchers for feed, grain, farrier, euthanasia, etc. What then? Who is going to step in, raise money, distribute food, and help so many in need? Are you going to do it? Is the government? Good luck.
With regard to Animal Control, almost all animal control agencies in this state are strapped financially. They do the best they can with the resources available. In fact, I would venture to guess that many officers go above and beyond each and every day in ways the public cannot see. Part of the financial issue may be due to low dog and cat license compliance. Are all the posters on this blog in compliance with license laws? License fee’s pay for services for animal control.
In closing, RHAF is reputable organization that has helped hundreds of horses and their owners. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made. Sometimes safety, longterm prognosis, adoptability, and space are real issues. Sometimes we need to think things through for ourselves and look at the big picture…
They were caught red handed lying about how many horses got adopted. What is your defense of that?
I didn’t see any defense period in her statement. Except for this one:
“To begin with, RHAF is NOT a rescue organization, nor have they ever claimed to be a rescue organization.”
Yea, neither am I, but I don’t take on dozens of horses in the name of rescue, then put them down if I think they are ugly or too hard to handle.
Everything else posted is a question. Nice questions. How about you actually answer them? I’m really not going to accept a defense of “Tough decisions have to be made”. Please. Pull the other one. I highly doubt it’s that tough to decide to put down 20 horses that sincerely need to be put down. Tough is when they DON’T need to be euthed, and you decide to do it anyway.
I don’t have a defense for anyone caught red handed lying but in this case I cannot see where anyone was caught lying. As I understand it, the claim that 18 horses were adopted came from the Dispatch, not directly from RHAF. I have experience with media and I can say for certain that many reporters make mistakes. Minor mistakes in reporting can change the substance and meaning of what is being reported. On more than occasion, I’ve given or been present during media interviews and been absolutely stunned at the information that comes out in the article as it was different than what was said or what happened. We are all human and prone to human failings including the media.
What gets me with this case is that someone will say something in a post and then everyone runs with it, adds to it, and it evolves into it’s own entity. That scares me as people don’t seem to be thinking for themselves.
As far as the person commenting on the 13 tons of hay distributed, not everyone in need needs hay. Also, RHAF issues vouchers as a TEMPORARY assistance, generally speaking 300 lbs of hay and 50 lbs of grain per average size equine. They are not a rescue and they do not support people and animals long term. For example, lets say Mr. Smith loses his job and is running out of feed yet his new job doesn’t start for 2 weeks, he could call animal control and ask for a voucher to get him through his rough patch even though his horses look great and aren’t starving. Mrs. Jones might call because she has a stallion, does not want to breed, but can’t afford a gelding. Then there is the owner who has been responsible for their 25 year old horse who needs to be put down because of disease and they don’t have the money since they depleted their reserves on veterinarians trying to get a diagnoses and/or treatment. Shutting down RHAF takes all that away. When people don’t have that assistance, situations that may not be cruelty or neglect per se may then become cruelty or neglect. Also, per the Revised Code of Washington 16.52.207 Aniaml cruelty in the 2nd Degreee, financial distress is defense under the law. RHAF can be a tool for law enforcement in such cases. Let’s say someone has a horse suffering (for whatever reason) to the extent it needs to be euthanized. The owners claim financial distress, there is no clear evidence of cruelty, so the animal control officer issues a RHAF voucher for free euth and carcasss removal. Five days later that horse is still suffering in agony and now that voucher is evidence for law enforcement because the owner can’t claim financial distress when they were given a free service. It happens and there are countless examples of how RHAF helps bridge the gap.
I think it is a complete and total mistakage for RHAF to close down the voucher program in Pierce but I also understand that the volunteers feel unjustly persecuted and the stress and energy involved in dealing with people spewing vitrolic rattlesnatch is likely overwhelming.
To the person suggesting Rose took horses to a rendering plant, give me a break. Why not accuse them of casting spells while your at it.
Euthanizing ugly horses, taking horses to a rendering plant, cover-ups, destroying evidence, stealing horses from Rusty Bar, are you people listening to yourselves???
Thank you Deltabravo, for bringing up some important points. I believe most of the readers here do not accept whatever they are spoon fed by the media-crap like this has made most of us wary.
You and Ripleys emphasize that they are not a rescue. So WHY did they take in 23 horses? They may call it an ‘assist’, it is called rescue by most of us when you remove animals from a bad situation to supposedly a better situation. When taking on a large number of horses, what rescue goes in without foster homes in place? In an emergency, yes. Having foster homes lined up would clearly let the group know how many horses they could house.
The silence did lead to speculation that proved true in regard to the euthanized horses. Why did they hide that information until they were virtually forced to answer? Because it would have impacted their donations and I suspect this whole event was an attempt to drum up media attention and donations for Ripleys. A money and ego-driven assist that made victims of these horses.
Also, good point regarding the funds donated for the Wilson horses! You say there was $3,500 donated. That is no where near enough to rehabilitate and place 23 horses is a couple months. Apparently that was donated after they took the horses. How much funding did they have when they started taking the horses? In that vein, I’d love to see the vet bills for them. I read that they gelded two horses. Was any other vet care done? Was any training done? The people who donated to this effort have a right to know where the money went. Sheesh-taking 10-12 horses to QAR to be shot and rendered would cost $2,000-$2,400. That is a mighty big chunk out of the $3,500. And that is a minimal amount for that many euthanasia’s.
I know little about the volunteer you condemn. I am grateful that he spoke up and gave some credibility to the questions that were circulating. He made it impossible for your friends at Ripleys to ignore their dirty secret. Ripleys has done a good job assisting horses and their owners in need. They should of stuck to their mission statement and what they did well. It will be a cold day in hell before I trust them with my hard earned dollars.
“SiIence (from RHAF) does not equal stupidty, weakness, or guilt”
Actually, in the case of an organization claiming to be a tax-exempt charity under IRS regulations, silence is prima facie *evidence* of guilt. Once you take the benefit, you give up things like privacy policies. Your records are open to public scrutiny for any “reasonable” request (and “we don’t want to” doesn’t mean the request is unreasonable).
If RHAF stood up and answered questions DIRECTLY and specifically, there wouldn’t be any “witchhunt” — assuming, of course, that the answers didn’t constitute a confession.
And of course, the big question is: If RAF is not a rescue, *why did they take the horses in the first place?*
People are heartbroken about this. You say, “Where were all of the trainers, foster homes, and adopters when this first started and they were asking for help?†Pay attention. In the comments, Fugly stated, “One of the issues here is that SAFE actually offered to take a few and RHAF said they did not need any help… Also, RHAF insisted upon taking the three horses from the initial quarantine barn (they did not have to leave, the barn was happy to keep them) and now two of those are unaccounted for.†What was RHAF’s motivation for that? How were they asking for help? You sound like an insider, so where were these requests for help and to whom were they directed?
“SiIence (from RHAF) does not equal stupidty, weakness, or guilt.â€
In my opinion, when you receive government funds, both from local animal control government agencies, and from the federal government (in the form of tax exemptions), you have an obligation to answer questions about your finances and operations.
I am a cynic. At first, I thought that the source was a disgruntled ex-employee. However, I find it hard to believe that within a month or two ten horses were deemed unadoptable. They certainly could not have been deemed dangerous within that time. It simply is not enough time to make an evaluation on an unhandled horse. I know because part of my old job for 8 years was to round up the 3yo field (approximately 10 horses) every summer and break them. These horses were completely unhandled and not halter broke and MANY of them would attack. It also would be very unwise to walk into a stall with one until I had some time to socialize it and teach it about personal space. I question the experience of their “horse wranglers”. I also would like to point out that ALL horse people believe that they are experts and I would like to know how many opinions they got regarding the dangerous horses. I have trained and shown many “dangerous” horses that amateurs thought were scary.
What’s the reason for accepting horses if they are not a rescue?
Damn right silence equals guilt! Any reasonable person looking at the situation is going to make that assumption. It’s not difficult for them to avoid that sort of “persecution” by being transparent in their conduct. They ask for money – they need to account for it.
Not so far from Rose Corey’s Creekwood Farm (where these horses were taken directly from Darlene Wilson’s farm) is a rendering plant where you can take your horse to be shot and then rendered for $200. Pretty cheap considering the vet and haul away fees in these parts. That is my guess.
Must not have used the topless trailer for THAT trip, eh Rose? The horse who ‘went crazy in the trailer’ and required euthanasia actually came over the trailer onto the truck. Wouldn’t want to bang up your pretty trailer for these skanks, I suppose.
So far Rose Corey has killed nearly half the horses she convinced Darlene Wilson she would rehabilitate and this news will quite possibly kill Darlene, too. Karma is the real bitch, Rose. Who will hire a real estate agent who lies so easily and often?
96 horses assisted but only 13 tons of hay. Is it just me or does that sound like not enough hay. 13 tons would go fast for starving horses when usually you feed free choice for underweight horses. My two are on 10 acre pasture and I still supplement hay. This story makes me sick. They are hiding something.
I feed free choice for all horses. Restricting forage is a recipe for impactions and ulcers.
Fugs, off topic, but I really need your opinion and advise here. I have never really had personal experience with calling animal control on anyone…fortunately, I’ve never actually seen any situations that rendered it.
But now I am considering that I might need to take some action on someone. The woman has already had a dog die due to heat stroke and no water. She is mass breeding cats through simply not spaying and letting her cat keep getting pregnant over and over…many of the kittens have been killed in some way or the other.
Her house is as disgusting on the inside as it is the outside. Some of the animals live inside with her. Nobody has been spayed/neutered and I doubt anyone has their shots. I mean, outside the one dog who was not getting water, I don’t think anyone is starved or dehydrated. But based on that, do you think there is ANYONE I can call, anything I can do to get something done about this?
Well, you have to provide shelter and water for a dog just like a horse. So if she had a dog tied out without those things, for example, you absolutely do have good cause to call animal control. It’s harder for them to get a warrant to get into her house. Lack of vet care is actionable but not spaying/neutering isn’t (unless you’re in Los Angeles, where you really DO have to have a breeder’s license to keep an unfixed pet).
I think the major issue is the lack of information and continuing silence surrounding these horses. Most organiziations will write about the animals they lose/pts and why – it can be an educational experience to owners on what happens when you don’t care properly for your animal. They also have information about the animals and their rehabilitation available somewhere – these people seem to be expending alot of effort hiding their actions when they could just post a few updates somewhere. When you are deemed to be hiding something it will ALWAYS make people question what you are hiding, and to wonder, and to suppose. If they are happy with the actions they have taken with regard to these horses, then why not just be accountable? Maybe they would not be featured in this blog if they had just written a few lines.
Hey, this is entirely unrelated, but I need help with something:
Click here.
This horse belongs to a friend of a friend of mine. She was stolen about two weeks ago. As far as I can figure out, she was taken by her former owner after a petty (or perhaps imagined) dispute and dumped at auction somewhere in Arizona. The cops have had no luck finding either the horse or the thief, and I can’t think of any other way to get the word out. Thankyou in advance for any help.
I don’t want to Click Here. You’re too scary. Why not type in the URL? I would follow that.
You can see the URL at the bottom of your browser by hovering your cursor over the link. It’s a youtube video.
It’s legit. When you scan over a link that just says ‘click here’, at the bottom of your computer, on the status bar, there will appear the proposed site it is linking to. In this case, a Youtube video of the black mare who is missing.
You might try contacting Sandbox’s owner (they were on a previous blog here) to let her know. She’s close to Arizona (in Texas) and could give some suggestions for how to find your mare.
Actually if you hover over the link (but do not click), the URL that it points to will appear in the lower left corner of your screen. Also keep in mind that, just as a link can be dressed up as “click here,” it can also be dressed up to look like a legitimate website.
I did click the link and it leads to a youtube video about a missing horse.
Thanks, everyone.
This is completely off-topic, but I stumbled across a rescue that I’m not familiar with. What was curious to me, is that on their ‘meet the horses’ page, they claim to have a 30 year old horse once owned by Eric Lamaze.
http://www.refugerr.org/en/Meet-the-Horses/
I’m not wildly familiar with his past horses, but maybe someone who is can verify this? If this IS one of his former horses, I wonder if someone’s tried contacting him…
Their horses look great. Happy and healthy.
Completely OT, but please help, it would only take a minute…
Pepsi is giving away 1 million to fund a cause, which will be determined by voters. The cause I am voting for is to fund one month of Duchenne research. For those of you unfamiliar with Duchenne, it is one of the most aggressive forms of Muscular Dystrophy. Children with this disease typically start to show signs at 6 years old and steadily worsen til they are wheelchair ridden. This cause is very close to my heart as both of my best friend’s sons have been diagnosed with this disease. Most Duchenne patients do not live past their teens. We are currently in 12th place with only 4 days left to vote. You can vote daily via Facebook at http://apps.facebook.com/pepsirefresh/idea/view/id/cacd00cb-e2de-473b-93c7-3fceedfcbd00?ref=mf
Again sorry for the OT post, but your support would really help!
sorry, one YEAR, not month!
I have all the sympathy in the world for disabled children. I’ve volunteered for therapeutic riding for years. However, I think it’s important to investigate in depth, what the research money will actually be used for. That’s pretty much the topic of this thread—how nonprofit money gets used.
From Their Facebook Page- Recently Posted
“Ripley’s Horse Aid Foundation tries very hard to not get distracted from the work we do by getting involved with the why, should have or could have of situations but to deal with the them as they are at that moment. What help can we give these people and these horses to give a healthy and pain free long term future? Benefit of the doubt should be g…iven freely but trust is earned thus gaining respect.”
ROFL OH MY GOSH!! “But trust is earned thus gaining respect” Uh yeah. Any trust we HAD in you is GONE. No respect here.
Maybe you shouldn’t spout platitudes when people are pretty much feeling like you are greedy con artists or at the best the worst kind of glory hound. Swooping in to “Save” a herd in need only to try to Euth most of them on the side when no one was looking there by getting all the “good” press for having “saved” the herd and hoping that everyone out there was too dumb to count past 10.
I just read it and one of their supporters actually compared the Auction Horses board euthanizing severely crippled horses in the kill pen at Enumclaw to Ripley’s euthanizing ten Darlene Wilson horses. Um, so ALL TEN were as bad as those horses AH has paid to euth? As in, unable to walk without pain, beyond the point where proper care could return them to health?
That just doesn’t make logical, reasonable sense.
Does the board for Enumclaw do that? That’s pretty neat, because I had wondered about approaching our local auction owner about doing the same type of thing. He often shows up for the auction to find horses left or dumped, sometimes with horrible problems. I once had to come get him in the middle of a large sale, to let him know that there was a horse in the back pen DYING. It reflects poorly on the auction itself, when in reality the real issue is what do you do with such horses when they are dumped at your sale barn? Sounds like Enumclaw has the answer.
Yes, they do. They have euthed a number of horses now that were in horrible shape, most recently an Arab foundered so badly her coffin bones had come through her soles.
http://auctionhorses.proboards.com
Exactly! There is a HUGE difference between a crippled up, in pain wreck of a horse and a horse that is so confused/scared/angry at life because of being locked in a shit hole of a barn for their whole lives.
If they weren’t ready and prepared to give aid to that kind of mentality, they shouldn’t have taken the horses on. I agree the herd probably did have some dangerous member in it- but only because they hadn’t been given a chance. I don’t normally advocate tranqulizers for normal proceedures, but if the horses need a little chemical help to allow the vet and such to work on them to get them healthy- then do it! Tranq them and then work on their minds later. With horses that messed up in the head I think anything less than a 6 month reassement is too early.
But whatever. They so disgust me right now. I just wish I had the time and money to be a rescue.
What I don’t understand is why it took them DAYS to start “Responding” to comments. It was all the “No comment” routine until yesterday and now they are trying to make it look like they are trying to dispell the rumors. What do you want to bet the BOD had to meet and decided what story they were going to say. I wouldn’t believe one word from this group.
One last thought for Ripleys’- If you claim you are a rescue- then stick to what you seem to be okay at doing- giving out vouchers through your network. THAT is a good job. THAT seems to be helping people. STICK to that. Leave the rescues to people who you know, actually ARE rescues.
I bet if they had posted about this herd on the Arabian forums the horses would have been rescued. Over at Straight Egyptians there was a mare at an auction that about 5 forum members banded together to rescue. She wasn’t even a Straight Egyptian- she was an Anglo/American Mutt-Arabian and yet forum members from Texas to Canada banded together to get this mare rescued, pay for vet care, and pay for hauling (I believe she went to a home in either Canada or Texas- I forget). So my point is- the horses don’t have to be that forum’s Strain for true horse lovers to want to rescue.
Ripley’s has long been a fringe “voucher” group. They try to work with Animal Control who is supposed to hold the vouchers and then give them out to distressed horse owners. It doesn’t really work, Wilma is very process, detail, extreme criteria oriented. The lack of a 990 and the very small amount of money that they report taking in as opposed to the hundreds of horses reported helped and the multiple counties with Ripley’s Directors listed implies more good intentions than results.
Rose Corey as the “Ripley’s Director for Pierce County” certainly stirred things up. She began by giving Tax deductible, donated hay, to a commercial Arab breeder friend of hers who had part of a field flooded. She made all the decisions on who got and who did not in Pierce County. She worked hard to agitate with the county and manipulate political contacts. She got lots of newspaper coverage including an award from her Real estate group for her charitable work.
At the same time she alienated every Animal Control Officer, all of the “Equine Network” participants, several vets, feedstores and almost all of her neighbors. Her manner and her overconfidence created this fiasco. She killed horses but she also destroyed any hope of prosecuting Darlene Wilson.
She morphed Ripley’s into a rescue without understanding what that means. Wilma and Michele live a long way from Rose and had very little to do with this whole thing except for mismanaging the cleanup. They all share responsibility but the main player here is Rose Corey.
Ripley’s is undoubtedly finished because of this. It’s really not much of a loss. Again, good intentions but a very flawed process. What is really important is that Rose Corey goes away. She needs to stop sticking her nose into animal welfare issues. She needs to leave people and politics alone. She has done enough.
“Rose Corey as the “Ripley’s Director for Pierce County†certainly stirred things up. She began by giving Tax deductible, donated hay, to a commercial Arab breeder friend of hers who had part of a field flooded.”
Yeah, I know about that. That’s 100% true. I never understood why, if your field floods, you aren’t simply responsible for renting another field til it’s not flooded anymore? I was in the same flood and I paid for BOARDING on all of my horses. Shazam, amazing how that works when you don’t have too many.
RHAF is not a fringe group, I know 100% that Rose did not alienate ACO’s, and you need to get your information straight. You,and many others have made erroenous statements. RHAF is very active in other counties who are lucky enough not to be surrounded by crazy town bloggers. Get a life
Rose did indeed alienate ACO’s. In fact, interestingly, they say that Rose being out of control is what got Ripley’s, otherwise a good organization, into trouble. I think that’s probably true. I think Ripley’s did great when they were providing aid without ACTUALLY TAKING HORSES IN. They were not set up or prepared or financed to actually take horses in like a rescue, and that’s where this all went wrong. They should have said no.
Ripley’s confirms euthanasia of ten horses
http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=2725&SectionID=30&SubSectionID=46&S=1
“She said the last horse to be euthanized was suffering from nerve damage in one foot, a condition she called “navicular disease syndrome.” Miner said that the condition was observed by Ripley’s personnel when the horse was placed into training and was unable to walk properly.”
From the article. Translation– they didn’t even get a vet check. They just had one of their so called trainers say, “This horse has navicular, it isn’t sound.” and then put it down. That’s just sick in my book.
No one seems to be able to name any large animal vet that has seen any of the horses while they were at Ripley’s. It’s not a big area, Pierce County. I know all the large animal vets, or know of them. There really are only a handful of horse vets. They never saw the Wilson horses.
So in the end, can ANYTHING be done? This is just so wrong. No vet care, no qualified knowledgeable trainers to help, and if rumors are correct, no effort to actually fix the problems these horses had. How were these horses in any way better off there than at the place they were rescued from? I’m not arguing their need for rescue. But sheesh, this is the prototype of an abusive situation. They technically didn’t even feed the horses– they put them down. That’s like, maybe, a half step above someone who lets the horses starve instead.
I think if you claim nonprofit status, you at least have to make some sort of effort to justify not paying taxes.
You can find info on Ducky, Lucy, Rapunzel & Storm here:
http://www.auctionhorses.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rescues
Sounds like this is what happened:
Some horses go into training, come up lame, no funds for a vet check: euthanize.
Some horses have bad conformation, crooked legs, whatever…thus the “ugly” — I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt here and assume the meaning of “ugly” was poor conformation that they considered less adoptable. That’s not an excuse, but some non-horse people might translate “poor or crippling conformation” into “ugly.”
Some horses are hard to handle, won’t settle down: euthanize.
They didn’t have the room, resources, both in people and money, to handle all these feral animals. So any problems were euthanized, probably because they realized they had very limited resources and couldn’t afford to feed or train that many, and it would be an embarassment if they admitted they had bitten off more than they could chew, so to speak. Or in a more positive light, they felt responsible for their decision and made some extreme triage decisions
about most of the horses they felt they couldn’t adopt — which was just plain wrongheaded.
I find it hard to believe that well bred Arabians were all that aggressive. Some Arabians are reactive and opinionated but few are actually really mean — they aren’t usually bred that way. It’s certainly possible though that some rogues developed. But unhandled is not the same as abused, where the meaness can come out against the abusers. I dunno, the less cooperative horses should have had more chances. As should the poorly conformed ones. I suppose a lame, untrained Arab might be a candidate for euth if you were truly strapped for resources, but still! Shame on them for not asking for more help.
For those apologists for the rescue, it’s a straw man argument to say “if they go away no one else will be helped” thus ignoring actions that are clearly egregious. Wouldn’t it be much better to say, “they have done good things in the past, but realize they have made some mistakes with this seizure because they were ill-equipped to deal with it.”?
OK lets get something straight—these horses were not ‘feral’ nor were they starving. The three picked up by animal control needed grooming, clean stalls and farrier work. Darlene has at no time been charged with starving her horses. Darlene has very serious health issues and can hardly move, much less take care of her horses so she hired someone to care for them, but guess what–they didn’t! When animal control came it was just three days after she had returned home from an extended hospital stay. Because of her medical condition, Darlene agreed to let Rose Corey take a number of the horses, after she was assured that Rose would find them carefully checked out, good homes. One mare was basically killed by someone’s lack of know how practically before she was off the trailer. Another died due to “cowboy” doctoring–although I am not sure if that was Ripley’s doing or the first place the filly was put as she was one of three taken by animal control. Most of the horses euthanized were very well bred four and five year olds. One was a surviving twin so was small. Darlene did not know the horses had been destroyed until a friend took her a copy of the “Dispatch” paper. She is heart sick–as she said, “I went deep in debt to feed these horses, if I had wanted them euthanized I could have done that myself several years ago.”
As to vet tech’s comment about driving by see “starving” horses, pretty good trick as the pasture is surrounded by a housing area and neighbors bordering her have said that the horses looked fine.
Well, Darlene SHOULD HAVE been charged with starving her horses, or did you not see the pictures right here on this blog of her horses starving in her field?
Darlene sucks, Ripley’s sucks. This is like Dean and $am when they were fighting – I’ve got news for you, YOU BOTH SUCK. Just in different ways.
I saw the photos in the newspapers and the ones Ripley’s post RIGHT AFTER taking possession of the horses–they were not starving!! Filthy in some cases and needing their feet done, but not starving. I find it interesting that Ripley’s was offering theses horses as ready for adoptions a mere two weeks after getting them–starving horses don’t recover that quickly. The photos I saw here were posted several years ago and were of horse newly repossessed by Darlene–because they weren’t being fed!!
Repossessed my ASS. Maybe that is what she told YOU.
http://fuglyblog.com/?p=612
Get a clue. Your buddy Darlene was a piss-poor horse owner who had been neglecting her horses for at least 8 years based upon what the neighbors had to see. It took years of reporting her for any action at all to be taken, and then it was a clusterfuck.
In response to 102 and her “pretty good trick about seeing starving horses” why dont you trot your dumb ass over to our neighborhood as you have obviously never been to Darlene’s property. Also there is not ONE neighbor bordering her property that thinks her horses look fine! I know them all,thats how we got pictures of her horses! Those ” Rescues” as you call them, wow! TWO years and they never put any weight on! How interesting. Poor darlene,shes been sooo sick! For 15 years ? Who knew?! *eye roll* Only everyone that lives in this area. It’s people like you that defend her that make it possible for horses to suffer for years! It’s horrible how it all turned out,even as skeletons they were pretty. But I would rather see them dead then slowly suffering every year.
102: I can second Vet Techs comment. I too live behind Darlenes property and have for almost 8 years now. I had to drive by those poor horses everyday, and yes, they were starving. Ive been taking pics and filing complaints with AC for years. It took getting together with several with several other concerned neighbors and tracking down ppl who had prior experience in dealing with Darlene to get anything done to help those horses. Ive got copies of papers written by people who bought horses from her 20 years ago that were not happy with the condition of the horses, even back then!! And they had pictures too! All were given the same excuse that the horse was just repossed back from a bad situation and was in the middle of rehab. I find this hard to believe when the same excuse is used over and over. Thanks to fuglys post on Darlene 2 years ago more people came out and wrote affidavits and called AC and help finally came. The horses gained some weight but in my opinion were still being neglected. Dreadlocks for manes, ingrown halters, slipper feet and horrible coats. Severe pot belly’s from worm loads and all had chewed off tails. This in my opinion is not caring for your animals!! If you’ve got so many you cant keep up with all their care then its time to downsize! I have copies of over 20 letters from other people who filed with AC some from people from other states. I also have copies of all the pics ever taken of those horses. Dont tell me the neighbors dont care!
What is amazing to me is that it was a 19 year old girl that was the “wrangler” for the horse that tired to kill her. My guess is that she is Rose Corey’s daughter, who I witnessed handling some of the horses a few months ago. Why would anyone allow a 19 year old to work with a horse that is obviously un handled and neglected? That is pure stupidity on their part.
I personally saw each of these horses at Wilson’s property before some other volunteers and I were kicked off of her property because we called animal control. None of these horses were ugly, even in their skinny and neglected state you could see potential. I went in nearly every stall (the ones we could get open) and the horses were definitely skittish, and it is obvious even to people that did not handle these horses that a teenage girl should not handle them. The horses that were outside the stalls (I think there were around 30) were in no way aggressive. They were very friendly and interested when I entered their pasture. None looked to be in such horrible shape that they should be euthanized within less than a month of trying to rehab them.
Where are the vet reports? That’s what I would like to know.
I wonder if they were going to have a vet do the necropsy of the horse they wanted to put down that was coughing up worms. Maybe just a gun, saw and knife would be sufficient for them.
I think the reason this went so wrong and continues to get worse is the egos involved . They refuse to admit any wrong doing and still think, despite what most others say, they did nothing wrong at all.
But the facts remain. They were by their own addmission NOT a rescue, yet they took 26 horses.
They did not advertise the horses as individuals anywhere. They refused help from outside rescues. They did not have professionals evaluate the unhandled horses. They refused to account for the horses when asked.
To use well worn horse analogies;
“They put the cart before the horse”.
then
Tried to “close the barn door after the horses were already out”.
And at this point I think I am “beating a dead horse”, because I see zero chance of them ever coming clean and explaining truthfully why they did what they did to these horses. My hope is that they have lost all respect by anyone involved in the horse rescue world. Once agin, due to greed and egos, horses are the losers in the game. It is really a shame too, because horses need good people out there on their side.
WHY were you kicked off the property? I know Darlene didn’t do it–she was in the hospital barely alive at the time.
We were kicked off the property by the caretaker Kathy Cook (I think that’s her name) because she heard that we had called animal control after our first visit to help with the clean up effort when asked by the church. She said nothing was wrong with the horses and what was going on out there, so she told us to leave.
Look under the manure pile…that’s what’s wrong.
I just want to add that any of you who have owned Arabians I am sure have owned cow hocked, crooked legged ones at some point or another that were good citizens and tried hard. Shame on them.
You say that, you, “Can’t tell me how many people have complained to you about Darlene.†To begin with who are you that they should come to you? I can tell you this, I have heard some of those complaints through the years, and in most cases it was because they were jealous of her success or angry that she wouldn’t come down on the price of a horse.
This woman isn’t a collector or a hoarder. For over thirty years, up until the last few years, she has been able to make a living from breeding, training and teaching riding —I don’t call that unemployed– I call that a lot of hard work and a successful business. In her heyday, she had a lot more horses than 40 and trust me, they were not neglected nor abused. To answer your question—she did stop breeding; the youngest horse in her barn is two. You are right some of the younger ones aren’t registered, but they can be. Let’s see—food or papers—I vote food! As to prices, she believed in her horses, and priced them accordingly; I have certainly never considered her prices ridiculous. However, she has been known to up a price if someone patronized her or she felt they weren’t a good match for the horse in question.
Now why didn’t she just giving them away—to begin with, we all know how easy that is—you can tell by all the ads for ‘free’ horses you see everywhere. Also, many people that take “free†horses just run them right down the road to the local auction. There were a few people who expressed an interest in some of the well-trained ones for free, but how do you feed the rest if you give away the best? Remember this was her BUSINESS! (And just for the record she did give away about 6 or so.)
One more thought on giving them away: At her request. I contacted the national Arab rescue people—I was told to “get in line.†I posted on Auction Horse that she would give away horses; in spite of the numerous people saying they would take one, nobody showed up, so guess what–Ripley’s got them.
And trust me, several years is a blink of an eye when you have lived a lifetime. Darlene kept hoping that her health would get better, and that the economy would get better. Neither happened. We all want to think something like this couldn’t happen to us, thus many take a holier than thou attitude because it is less scary to castigate someone in her position that to say, “There but for the grace of God go I.â€
JEALOUS OF HER SUCCESS?
WHAT SUCCESS?
Please name a SUCCESS that came out of Darlene’s breeding program. Please list her long history of accomplishment at the Arabian shows for me.
Auction Horse was not the place to put Arabians needing homes. Again, you put them on Arabian Breeders’ Network and other boards, WITH PICS, WITH BLOODLINES, and they might not now be dead.
(1) There was a quote in the news of one neighbor who said they had never seen anything wrong–so no, not all the neighbors think something needed to be done. 2) First you said the problem started several years ago, then you said it has been going on at least eight years and the last number was fifteen years–so how long do you think it has it been a problem? 3) I have been to Darlene’s a number of times over the years–I have never seen a horse I thought was starving! I will admit that sometimes they need their feet done, but no more so than the broodmare bands on numerous farms I have visited. 4) I own a stallion that has her breeding on the bottom that was TOP 5 Regional winner. While Darlene has never shown much herself, several years ago a mare from her breeding was very successful as a reining horse. If you have been following the various blogs that have popped up on this subject, you would know that there are a number of people who credit her with teaching them to ride and/or selling them the horses that they have enjoyed every since. I could name several top breeders that have been repeat customers through the years. 5) I was personally there when Darlene when “rescued” (and paid good money for the honor) among numberous others, Nara, San El Abadya, and Mashallah. Nara was suppose to be impossible to trailer–Darlene had her in in the trailer in less than 20 minutes without whip, chain or drugs. “Danny” was twenty plus years old bag of bones when she took him on–two years later he went third over all at the West Coast Crabbet show! Mashallah was a crazy horse when he arrived at her place and yet in short order she had him going well and turned him into a true gentleman. Shaneesta was considered a “maneater” when she came to Darlene’s barn as a thirteen year old broodmare–she became Darlene’s favorite riding horse. I don’t know how you measure “success” but I would say, yes, this is success.
As to NOT posting on Auction Horse, well my mistake–I am new to all of this and it seemed to be a quite active site. As to photos and pedigrees, yes, that would have been helpful, butwhat part of Darlene was/is seriously ill and unable to to do this sort of thing.
I have to ask–why do you personally seem to have such a vendetta against Darlene? And don’t tell me it it just concern for the horses; there are horses everywhere in fields everywhere in worse condition than any of hers I have seen. When you took those photos several years ago to “prove” how terrible her care was, why, if you really wanted to make a point, did you only take photos of two horses–there must have been at least twenty others out in the pastures at the time.
I measure success by success in a competitive discipline. If you cannot afford to campaign your horses in a competitive discipline, you should not be breeding. Period. My favorite breeders are those who also have broodmares that have enjoyed show ring, race, or similar success.
I have a “vendetta” against EVERYONE who lets their horses get thin and have curled up feet. EVERY ONE. No matter the reason. I HATE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE AND WISH A LIGHTNING BOLT WOULD STRIKE THEM. I hate them THE MOST if their horses look like that and they KEEP MAKING MORE. Darlene is a PERFECT example.
Yeah, I think Ripley’s effed up but it’s not like it absolves Darlene. Darlene should have started getting rid of horses when she couldn’t keep up to date on basics like hoof care. She didn’t. She had no problem having horses in stalls that people had to chip out with sledgehammers, they were so deep in shit. How can you defend that?
And if Darlene was too ill to take pictures and try to market them effectively, what was wrong with Kathy Cook? Is she disabled too?
Boy you do have a narrow idea of success! So by your definition of success, people who produce horses that have gone on to be working ranch horses, excellent pleasure horses, driving horses, police horses, search and rescue horses or therapy horses should not breed because their horses aren’t in “competitive” events. Talk about an elitist attitude!
PS Kathy Barns is leasing stalls and the use of the arena; she doesn’t work for Darlene.
It’s only called elitist by people who can’t afford to compete and think they should get a pass on it and still be able to breed boatloads of horses THERE ARE NO HOMES FOR.
Not everyone needs to breed horses. MOST people do not need to breed horses. The world would be a lot better place for horses if fewer people felt entitled to make more of them in the mistaken belief that, somehow, without a competitive record, the foals were going to sell for enough to even cover the basic expenses. This has been proven not to work AGAIN…and AGAIN…and AGAIN.
Some folks who are willing to let their standards fall as lows as their excuses sure could use a little elitist rubbed on their heads.
I don’t know exactly when the world turned to making excuses for bad behaviour, but if half the effort were put into actually raising your standards and living up to them through your actions, blogs like this wouldn’t exist.
There truly is a mental sickness running through our society that people keep dropping their standards to justify their poor decisions, lack of work ethic and values. If you want successful horses, you’ve got to do a shit-load better than putting out that Craigslist effort. Why do you settle at the bottom and make shitty excuses? It reminds me of women who stay in abusive relationships and make all kinds of excuses. It’s it just laziness?
For God sake, get away from the bottom feeders who never go anywhere. Push your comfort zone some – elevate your standards, don’t sink and make excuses. I know several elitist who ARE showing successful horses and selling them (locally) for 5 & 6 figures. This auction/Craigslist mentality drives me batty.
You seem to have the idea that you can judge the ability of a breeder by whether they CHOOSE to participate in the artificial and highly political world of show ring competition. You also seem to believe that those that choose NOT to participate in this venue are responsible for the over abundance of horses on the market at the moment. Well, I submit: 1)That being able to breed quality animals and being successful in the show ring are two different talents. 2) That many horses that are successful in competition end up dead by the time they are ten due to the fact that they are bred to have the conformational faults that have become the “flavor of the day” in the show ring or because they have been pushed too hard and too early in their lives and end up with permanent damage. This is how many “broodmares” get to be broodmares; they are no longer sound. 3)That the flooded market is mostly the result of “name brand” breeders who put fifty to a hundred foals on the ground a year to get those two or three that will be a success in the show ring and guess what happens to most of the rest of their youngsters — can you say, “AUCTION?!” (And yes, I could name names.) 4) You completely ignore the fact that the economy is bad, and that at this time many people that a few years ago could afford a nice show horse, or a couple of nice trail horses no long can afford to feed them and thus they are up for sale “cheap!” 5)That everywhere you look, highly competitive successful show barns/breeders have shut down in the last couple of years and have dumped most of their horses “cheap!”
A few years ago I rescued a lovely “skin and bones” mare for $200 out of some back pasture; her sire was an imported stallion that had been bought at the Polish auction for well over $600,000 and she had been trained at Lasma — having “name brand” credentials doesn’t assure a good future.
People who CHOOSE not to show are ABSOLUTELY responsible for low end horses going to slaughter, just like people who CHOOSE not to finish high school wind up not being able to get JOBS.
Horses need a value to stay safe. The value of Arabian horses is built on SHOW RING SUCCESS. I can get a FREE Arabian any day, although there are Arabians that sell for six figures – even in this economy. What is the difference between the two? SHOW RING SUCCESS.
The fact that people ride show horses too young and may abuse them or ruin them is a separate issue. It does not negate the fact that show ring success is just like education and winning accolades at your job for human beings – it vastly decreases the chance that you will become “unemployed.”
Successful show barns haven’t shut down. You know who has shut down? Asshats like Darlene that thought they could skip showing and still sell horses for a lot of money merely because of their bloodlines. I guess that did not turn out to be true. The people who are showing ARE STILL selling horses for lots of money. Look at someone like Sheila Varian. Is she getting foreclosed, having animal control called, etc.? OF COURSE NOT. Are her horses still selling for a lot of money? You BET. Now that is a successful breeder. Darlene is a failure who caused a great deal of equine suffering and probably continues to do so.
Sure, everyone can point to a fluke rescue, a horse that fell into bad hands and took a wrong turn in life. Someone from this blog got an EA Ecchstravagant daughter out of the Enumclaw auction for $60. But hey, she’s under saddle now and has a new owner – because she went to someone who got off their dead ass and got her trained. When was the last time Darlene was financially responsible for a horse getting broke to ride? Care to give me a year on that, because all of the young stock confiscated did not know jack shit.
And how’s that mare doing today?
She went to a major Polish breeding farm in Virginia and last I heard (two years afterward) she was well and happy.
You seem to associate showing with training–they aren’t the same thing. I agree that horses need training and shouldn’t be expected to make it in this world on pedigree alone. That said there are certainly any number of “name brand” trainers/breeders that produce nothing but halter horses–I don’t consider those horses trained no matter how many ribbons they have won in the show ring!
I know any number of people that don’t like the show ring that do train their horses — including Darlene– right up until she got hurt — in a buggy training accident!! (See how much you don’t know.) To answer your question about when Darlene last trained a horse – well since her accident, where she was seriously hurt, was over two years ago, and the horses we are talking about are mostly three, four and five year olds, I don’t see why you would think they would be trained–unless you wanted her to start them as two year olds?!
Will being from a “name breeder” and being trained save a horse? No! I went to a “color” auction a couple of years ago. About 350 horses went through it; over half were well-bred, young, well started, registered QH’s from known producers — guess who bought most of them? Right on — meat buyers from Mexico! $500-$550 a head. It is an ugly time in which we live. You castigate Darlene and yet as far as I know in the last twenty years, she hasn’t ever just “dumped†a horse at the local auction
As what “name brand” Arab showbarns/breeders can I name that have shut down in the last few years try: Dr. Rooker, Tom Zaffer, Delongpre, Ventura, Twin Oaks, Pegasus –just to name but a few that come immediately to mind.
I have been talking with a QH man that tells me there is a still really good market for young futurity nominated prospects–well yes, I am sure there is, just as there are horses going through the TB yearling auctions for really good money. People are always hoping to cash in on the big bucks. However, what happens to all the horses that weren’t good enough to sell at the sales, or the ones that aren’t successful in the endeavors for which they were bred?? You know as well as I do the answer to that, so quite blaming small breeders such as Darlene for the ills of the horse market. The “famous” big breeder that breeds for a narrow market, in many, if not most cases is more to blame. Yes, they get serious money for a few of their show horses, but it is well documented that in most cases they simply dump the ones that don’t make the grade.
Yes, going after the the small folks, the vulnerable people and trying to make examples of them makes you feel really good about yourself, but it does little to actually help the problem.
There is this amazing way to get horses trained when you can’t do it yourself due to health: HIRE SOMEONE.
Of course this is not possible if you have TOO MANY and NO JOB. Hence the problem.
And if she got hurt two years ago, why are so many horses from before 2008 unregistered?
I go after everyone equally if their horsekeeping SUCKS. I went after Ernie Paragallo and he is hardly a “small person.” You can make excuses for Darlene all day – they don’t fly with me.
Add Delarosa to the list of big barns going under in the last few years!
There are no horses of Darlene’s born before 2008 that are unregistered–where did you get that idea?
More facts that Darlene was quite successful until the last couple of years: In only one year in the mid 200’0′s, she sold 44 horses for over $220,000 total. At another time a colt bred by her sold for $25,000. She replace the roof of her barn in the late 90′s to the tune of over $50,000. She had new clay floors put in the stalls (that is some of what the unknowing volunteers were digging up while she was in the hospital–thinking it was packed manure!) Also in the mid 2000′s she had a gelding out her breeding win numerous championships a hunter at class “A” shows and the filly I mentioned did well as a reining horse and went champion reining horse at the Daffodil show. Both horses were being boarded/trained in her barn at the time. There were others but I think I made the point that her horses were/are using horses and were getting trained.
No one is arguing that Darlene couldn’t afford to hire a trainer that last few years, what we were discussing is whether she has been a successful breeder/trainer in the past who years has taken some seriously hard hits from life in rapid succession that have left her reeling and not quite knowing where to turn. You choose to say, without any personal knowledge of her or her life except for a few articles on the internet that this is not true–I believe that I have more than proved that you are wrong.
You haven’t proved a thing. Just because a couple horses got out of a backyard breeder’s and got shown by someone ELSE, that doesn’t make the original person a responsible breeder. As for the dollar amounts, really? Until you post names of horses and buyers and I can check that out, I consider that 100% bullshit. Darlene had some nice OLDER mares that she bought from OTHER people, but if you look at her homebred young horses, they would not be competitive at the Arabian shows. Of course, some of that is due to neglect, which you do not seem able to admit she is GUILTY OF. And if the horses prior to 2008 have papers, then prove it and have your buddy turn those papers over – with signed transfers – so that the horses have a better chance of being adopted.
http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=1900
24 injured in 4th of July parade and it was small parade. Some are in critical condition when team of horses ran with wagon for 6 to 8 blocks.
Bellevue, Iowa
I see ridiculous parade people all the time.
What part of boarded/trained in her barn did you not understand? They were trained at her barn BEFORE they were sold!
Who do you want her to turn the papers over to–Ripley’s?! I think not!! She told Ripley’s that if they would find “forever” homes where the hoses would be used–not just backyard pets–she would turn the papers to the new owners.
As to her homebreds not being quality animals–have you personally ever toured her barn or seen her horses up close? If not you don’t know diddly about what she has or has not produced over the years. I HAVE seen and owned a number of horses from her breeding; they have been excellent animals. I know a number of people that have had horses of her breeding and have been quite happy with them. Go take a good look at the youngsters Ripley’s hasn’t killed–nothing wrong with them and several are quite outstanding.
As to the rest of your post-can’t imagine that anyone would turn over financial records etc. to anyone else–much less to you. Explain to me, If Darlene is such a loser that only “bought” some good mares, just how did she manage to do so? According to your theories, she shouldn’t have been able to afford them.
I have never said that Darlene wasn’t in a bad way or that something didn’t need to change and I certainly don’t expect you personally to see the light or change your stand; I only hope that some of your readers will see this and think twice before they jump on the “hate’ bandwagon next time around. Many people are just heartless and do deserve to have the” book throw at them;” however, there are also many people who are trying to do what is right that get trapped in situations that quickly get out of their control — there are two sides to any story.
“Who do you want her to turn the papers over to–Ripley’s?! I think not!! She told Ripley’s that if they would find “forever†homes where the hoses would be used–not just backyard pets–she would turn the papers to the new owners.”
Yes. The papers should go with whoever had custody of the horses, along with signed transfers. If Ripley’s lied to her and told her they’d be placed and not euthed, then she has a claim against Ripley’s for fraud and I would encourage her to pursue it. My understanding is her church has been very generous with providing her for legal help, and in this case, I’m all for it. She should sue if she was lied to in order to get her to release the horses.
“As to the rest of your post-can’t imagine that anyone would turn over financial records etc. to anyone else–much less to you. ”
Well, then, you can’t prove that Darlene ever sold a horse for any money, can you now? If you are going to argue they sold for a zillion dollars, be prepared to show some proof or witnesses. Otherwise I am going to tell you that you’re full of it.
“Explain to me, If Darlene is such a loser that only “bought†some good mares, just how did she manage to do so? According to your theories, she shouldn’t have been able to afford them.”
I never said she didn’t have some money ten years ago. But from what I hear, it went to hell a few years thereafter and has been on a downward spiral ever since.
Finally, I DO NOT CARE AT ALL what a person’s intentions are, if they “love” their horses, or what the reasons are that horses are starving and uncared for. I have said many times that it does not matter a whit to the horse if you love them but don’t have money, or if you are Cruella de Vil, chuckling while they suffer. THE HORSES DON’T CARE. If you let horses starve and go without hoof care, YOU’RE AN ASSHAT, period. Darlene’s just another jerk who let horses starve. Did you ever look under her manure pile, Miss/Mr. Defender? ‘Cause I hear there is QUITE a graveyard under there.
I really need to quit doing this, it is so useless! How do I know Darlene “sold” horses, well, for starters, because I bought them from her, and I have friends that bought them from her and I have been present when others have bought horses from her–I was there when one of her colts was sold for $10,000.
First you say you don’t believe she ever made money selling her horses, and then you go on to say that you didn’t say she didn’t have money some ten years ago–but since you don’t believe she has sold horses, where did that money come from back then? Believe me she isn’t independently wealthy.
Then you contend she has never bred anything worthwhile, and yet when I mention horses that have done well in the ring, you say that the new owners get the credit. But wait, we are talking about whether she “bred” quality animals, if they were no good to start with, how did the new owners win with them?
You can’t have it both ways– either she has never bred quality horses and has never sold them for good money, (and she has been living on air for the last thirty years that I I have known her ) or she has done so and made a living at it until the last few years.
Admit it (you won’t!) you are just “juicing up” a story and simply don’t have anything but “rumors” to back it up! For some reason it pains you to believe that not everyone that has horses in need are useless losers who have never accomplished anything.
As to the manure pile rumor–please–that one makes me laugh out loud! You really believe there is any truth at all to that silly rumor?! There is another version where she is suppose to bury the bodies out under the trees. Darlene’s barn sits in the middle of a sub-development; the trees are a very narrow border between her and the road on the back of the property. Since she is well passed middle age, has never owned a tractor– much less any digging equipment–just how is a 5”1″ woman going to bury grown horse bodies under the manure pile?!! Too funny!
Fact: the Mormon church helped clean her barn for her and have helped her get to and from doctors, hospital etc. They have not provided her with any legal help or any feed. Fact, when PCAC took the three horses–there was 15 ton of hay in the barn. Fact: she WAS NOT charged with starving her horses–it was the condition of the stalls that was the main charge.
1. First of all, I don’t know what Darlene paid or didn’t pay. I know that some of her older mares had decent bloodlines and I ASSUME they were reasonably valuable at the time she bought them. Whether she got them as gifts, made some deals to buy them on payments, whatever, I don’t know.
2. This case has been one of the best documented that I have EVER chronicled here on the blog. I have so many different individual witnesses who have contacted me, some of them people I know “in real life.” There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Darlene’s place has been a disaster for at least 7-8 years time. None.
3. Overall, it is your word against the word of more than a dozen people who reported this story to me over the past two years. Are they all meanies who just hate this poor little old lady? COME ON. Nonsense. They are horselovers who got sick of witnessing starving horses in the neighborhood that no one did anything at all. Darlene’s Mashallah web site, when it was still up, actually chronicled the story of her stallion dying of colic and her NOT CALLING A VET. It is gone now, but I read it myself and I assume those were her words if they were on her site, wouldn’t you?
You can defend her all you want…she is guilty…she is selfish…and she is responsible for horses dying.
1! A least you are honest to admit that you don’t know; I have first hand knowledge.
2) Best documented–boy you do operate on very little actual knowledge.
3) I haven’t seen “over a dozen” and I am certainly not alone in defending Darlene-I remember at least 4 or 5 from when you first published this two years ago. Just what are your qualifications for judging whether Darlene handled Mashallah’s colic correctly? Do you have any horses? Are you a vet? I will tell you that the way she handle him was quite normal under the circumstances. Most people would not call a vet the moment a horse seems a little off. They would do as she did, take him out of the stall and put him in an arena to have more room to move around and where she could check on him more easily. He was not in obvious pain and the fact that he went down and died so suddenly would indicate that it was something more than a colic–possibly a telescoped intestine.
I believe it is Ripley’s that is responsible for horses dying.
Bit more information if you are interested: word is that the vet that did the euthanizing was Linda Haggerman. Some of the young horses that were lost: A double Bey Shah granddaughter broke to ride and drive, A Bey Oro son, a Magic Dream daughter, two El Shama (double Aurab) daughters, an Ali Dhalan son out of the Ben Rabba daughter Kissme Pico and his 1/2 sister by GH Venture who was export several years ago, a Bodacious Bey son and a Bey Oro granddaughter. Not exactly trash.
Good grief that’s awful. Especially the first – I’d love to know what was wrong with her that she had to be PTS.
One more thought: according to the human society the body scores on the horses at Darlene’s were between a 4 (moderately thin) and 5 (moderate)–not exactly starving. Also they had all been wormed in January.