Pinto – Not just for spots anymore!
May 28 2010
After the last few days, we need a happier topic to discuss, and I’ve been wanting to write this blog!
Very recently, I learned that the Pinto Horse Association (PtHA) had started accepting solid colored horses of most breeds for registration, with full privileges to compete in “breeding stock” classes at the Pinto shows. From their web site:
Bloodlines
PtHA accepts horses from many different outcross breeds including:
- American Paint Horse
- American Quarter Horse
- Dutch Harness
- Hanoverian
- Holsteiner
- Jockey Club (Thoroughbred)
- North American Spotted Haflinger
- Oldenburg
- Oldenburg of America
- Trakhener
- United States Trotting Association
- Westphalian
- American Hackney Horse Society
- American Morgan Horse Registry
- American Saddlebred Horse Association
- American Saddlebred Horse Association of Canada
- Arabian Horse Registry
- Canadian Arabian Horse Registry
- Half Arabian Horse Registration
- International Andalusian and Lusitano Horse Association
- Missouri Fox Trotting Horse Breed Association
- National Show Horse Registry
- Paso Fino
- Pleasure Saddle Horse Registry
- Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association of America
Accepted pony outcross breeds are:
- American Hackney Horse Society
- American Paint Pony Registry
- American Quarter Pony Association
- American Shetland Pony Club
- Chinioteague Pony
- Connemara
- International Quarter Pony Association
- Missouri Foxtrotting Pony
- North American Spotted Haflinger
- Welsh Pony Society of America
- all recognized outcross breeds for horses
Accepted miniature outcross breeds are:
- American Miniature Horse Association
- American Miniature Horse Registry
- International Miniature Horse Registry
- World Class Miniature
What this means is that you can register darn near anything (the exclusions are Appaloosas, Drafts, and of course mules) in the Pinto association and go to the Pinto shows. Why do you want to go to the Pinto shows? Well, let me fill you in:
First point, there are four distinct types of Pintos – Saddle, Pleasure, Hunter and Stock. You get to choose the category your horse fits into the best when you register him. Saddle type are the gaited breeds, Pleasure type includes Arabians, Andalusians and Morgans, Hunter type includes Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods and Stock type is for the QH’s and Paints.  At the Pinto shows I’ve gone to, they group Saddle/Pleasure and Hunter/Stock together, so the beauty of this is that if you are showing an Arabian, you are in a ring full of Arabians and similar type horses. You are not competing against the stock breeds and placing last even when you have a great go because some judge doesn’t comprehend that your horse is not supposed to go level! Or let’s say you have a lovely Thoroughbred mare. In the Pinto ring, she is a Hunter type and is judged as such. The fact that she lacks the huge muscles of a halter-type Quarter Horse will not count against her. You can register your Standardbred in the Pinto association and show him, too.
Second point – Minis are welcome! Pinto provides a second show circuit for you mini owners with tons of classes for your little guys, everything from driving to in-hand jumping and in-hand trail. So you can take your minis to the same show as your big horses. Hello, money saved!
Third point – Multiple judges! Just went to a Pinto show with six judges. This means every single class you enter, you’re in six classes and have six chances for points. Worried that a judge might hate your horse? Hey, no worries – you have five more chances for a judge who loves your horse in every class. Make a mistake? No worries, probably not all six saw it. At $25 a class for six judges, this is a FAR better value than any open show and you are earning breed show points that count toward awards like Register of Merit, Register of Excellence, and more.
Fourth point – I don’t know if this is nationwide, but from what I have seen, the awards are excellent. Lots of bridle bags, coolers, clippers, and other useful stuff. Saddles a plenty! I know they are giving out a whole bunch of Chavez saddles at the World Show.
Fifth point – Speaking of the World Show, you do not have to qualify. Yes, it’s true. Anyone can show up at the World Show. Got an awesome dressage horse? Register him Pinto and go kick some butt – they have dressage. Got a green working hunter? At 2’3 – 2’6, it’s a perfect class to try for a national title on your young horse. I hear they get a great turnout for the games, too.  Especially in these tough times, it never hurts to put some more achievements on your horses, particularly if they are for sale or at stud. This is a relatively easy way to do just that.
Sixth point – If you are looking to “step up” from the open shows but can’t afford that $5,000 saddle just yet, this is a good compromise. It’s not the foundation show where grooming doesn’t matter, but you aren’t going to get dissed for not having enough silver, either. Turnout does not take precedence over performance – the $1,000 show shirts are there but I have seen them get beat by the $20 western shirt from the department store.
Seventh point – Disciplined Rail. This is a VERY cool class where horses have to be very well trained to win. Can you counter canter? Can you do a flying change on the wall? What about a 360? Back exactly five steps? If you have a horse who isn’t the quality of mover to win WP or HUS, this is your chance for show ring success. Your horse just has to be obedient – and truly well trained. The rail horses that fall apart off the rail can’t win this one. Nor can a rider who is “posing” up there and doesn’t really know how to use his/her legs and seat bones to cue the horse.
You know, I admit I was one of those people who had been in some AQHA barns growing up and had gotten that attitude that Pinto, Buckskin, Palomino, etc. weren’t “real shows,” but I admit I’ve had to revise my attitude. Yes, you see greener horses than you would ever see out in public at an AQHA, APHA, or ApHC. But you also see happier horses. I see more people at those shows feeding treats and loving on their horses. I see less abuse (though of course there are always a couple bad apples at any show!) I see fewer fits of temper when a horse doesn’t do well or makes a mistake in a class. It just seems like a very good niche for people like myself who burned out on the big shows years ago because we couldn’t watch the abuse. And maybe if those of us who feel that way patronize these alternative circuits instead of AQHA, APHA, and ApHC, those organizations will have to stand up and take notice that they’re going to lose money if they don’t crack down on the bad apples. A lot of money.
What do you think? What are the “color” breed shows like in your area? Have your experiences been good or bad? Do you like them better than AQHA, APHA, ApHC, etc. or do you think people complaining about the big breed circuits are whiners who can’t win at them? Hey, I won’t knock you for saying it — it was definitely the impression I used to have. I’ve had a change of heart on the topic and just think others might want to take a second look as well, so let’s talk about this today and have a happier topic for our Friday.
Happy Memorial Day weekend to all, and of course, a huge thank you to those veterans we are honoring on Monday. I know there are a lot of annoying people who don’t appreciate it, but I certainly appreciate MY freedom that allows me to write this blog every day, whether or not it pisses people off! And God knows I’m not the one who had the balls to go fight for it and risk MY neck, so if you did or your family member did, I can at least offer up a huge round of applause and gratitude!
137 comments to “Pinto – Not just for spots anymore!”
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Good for the Pinto people, making showing fun and affordable. No guarantee the judging will be fair, but we can’t have everything. Most of the shows with multiple judges, there are multiple FEES. A class fee of $25 is very reasonable, given this day and age. When I showed QH in the 1970s in California, the classes were $4 or $5 and there was always only one judge. “The good old days ;o)”
The one problem I have is the idea that “everyone will win a prize” — well, almost everyone since pinto mules are not allowed. However, if showing is fun and you enjoy the competition (and not necessarily the outcome, if it is not in your favor), go for it ;o)
The Pinto shows I go to have all day fees…. The last show was a one day show with three judges. The fee was $150 for the whole day.
That’s even better! I remember going to the small shows and wanting to add a class or two and being turned away because it was “too much work” for the staff.
Poor overworked devils (and I have worked show offices and know it CAN be a royal pain in the patoot but does earn extra $$ for the show coffers, which I thought was the point).
Anyway all-day fees. How great.
Here in FL, we have combined APHA/PtHA shows. That way, you can haul once and get points in both associations. The classes are separate (PtHA has some classes that APHA doesn’t) but still! It saves me a LOT of time and money
Personally, them allowing solid horses in sounds pretty damn pointless to me, sounds like another registry scheme to be able to register anything again. I guess marketing schemes simply know no bounds in this country. It just sounds like asking for more fuglies to be bred at a really BAD time to be breeding them.
Well, I think it’s kind of smart of them to widen eligibility so that they can get enough entries even in this economy. And as someone who used to be SO sad watching all the little solid Paints go to slaughter, I’m personally thrilled that there are now opportunities for breeding stock horses to compete with the rest. I’d rather see a quality solid mare become a broodmare than a hideozygous one with spots, you know? Having classes for each removes the “OMG GOTTA GET SPOTS” thing which, IMHO, leads to the breeding of a lot of conformational crap.
Amen. And blending together the different paint patterns can result in a lot of overly white foals (and also to loosing track of the frame overos who can produce OWLS foals). It’s a really good idea to have solids available to cross onto, especialy if you have a homozygous to put them to/on. It also emphasizes that the breed is first about type and quality and *second* about color.
The way the local PtHA inspector (yes, they inspect them – especially if they are eligible for the regular registry) explained it to me, you can’t register just ANYTHING as breeding stock Pinto. It has to already be registered as one of the accepted outcrosses listed in the blog. You can’t just drag a grade horse out of the pasture and say you want it registered.
I’ll read the rule book again if I need to, but that’s the way I understood it.
OT sort of:
Can anyone help me find my breeding stock Paint gelding??
1993 model, Royal Bay Man
Bay – no white at all
Sire: Chicka Royal Flush
Dam: Sugars Chardonay? Firebrand Light?? I’m not sure.
I’m pretty sure that the breeders were the Loar family here in WA, Royal Dreams Farm (Sandra/Meridith/Denise Loar). I don’t think it exists anymore.
I’d love to find him, but I don’t have any way to search the AQHA or APHA registries. I upgraded him a couple of months ago, and he’s just blooming. So pretty! I’ll appreciate any help that anyone can offer (if you’re nearby, there’s a free trim in it for ya’
)
Bummer that the Pinto registry won’t take mules – that’s just silly!
Actually, selection based on physical type (suited for a particular performance discipline) AND SOUNDNESS OVER A NORMAL PERFORMANCE LIFETIME WHICH SHOULD BE ABOUT 20-ODD YEARS would be the best approach to breeding. Outcrossing for horses bred from limited gene pools (essentially all breeds including AQHA) is important from a health perspective. However, despite the broadening of the gene pool, horses at risk for genetic defects such as SCID, HYPP, GBED, EB, HERDA, PSSM 1, and MH need to be tested before breeding and probably before purchase.
So if I have a Solid Mare w/ Paint papers…and a solid colt at her side by a paint I can reg. them pinto?
You can. No problem at all.
This is wonderful news!! It will help my colt and mare be more showable! So excited…
I can get the solid progeny of two registered pintos being registered but not from any breed under the sun except mules that is a solid colour.
ie If I have a purebred Pinto coloured Dutch warmblood and register it as a Pinto great. If I have a solid colour registered Dutch warmblood with no pinto parents then I don’t think it should qualify for Pinto registry. Wouldn’t that be duplicating the American or Canadian Sport Horse registry? I don’t think they take mules either.
Absolutely to all of our veterans…and thank you to our Representatives for getting the ball rolling on getting rid of the utter injustice that we call ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’. Great timing, IMO.
Doesn’t sound any different than your average open show. And if anyone can go to the World Show, it isn’t really that much of an accomplishment to make it; there is no prestige or exclusivity of competing against the best from all over the country and winning. I mean, the Olympics wouldn’t mean squat if anyone who could get there was able to compete.
Something I think about is that the best horses may not make it to a World Show you have to qualify for, merely because qualifying can be a lot about endurance – both the horse’s and your wallet’s. So if you don’t believe in showing more than one or two weekends a month, if you’re nervous about hauling your horse long distances on a regular basis, or if you don’t have the $50K or so it takes to show that much and haul that much, you could have a great horse who never qualifies. Much like winning high points and all arounds, it isn’t necessarily about the BEST – it’s about the MOST. And there’s nothing wrong with that if your horse and you can hack it, but quality horses do miss out because that’s the way the system works.
If it’s just for fun and you’re not seriously trying to campaign a horse. If I was looking to breed a competition horse, I would research the potential stud’s competition record. If all he was winning, or even placing in, were shows like this I’d pass. If I am going to breed, I want the best of the breed. The Pinto registry doesn’t sound any different than the Blue Eyed horse registry. And these shows/classes don’t sound any different than an average open or schooling show.
Granted, your focus is stock horses and mine is H/J and/or Dressage (in which breed is generally secondary to actual talent), I kind of see the Pinto stuff as being the shows for those that can’t hack it at a breed show, be it AQHA or APHA. But, good for them for letting anyone and everyone go to a World Show; wouldn’t want anyone to feel left out because they aren’t rich.
I show APHA and PtHA. As far as the PtHA world show (or the PWC as they call it), it is not cheap to attend. I doubt anyone would spend that kind of money if they didn’t have a competitive horse. It’s costing the folks at my barn around $4K each. Also, the APHA world show starts right after the PWC ends, so there are a lot of trainers who use the Pinto show as a “warm up”. There are BIG classes and amazing horses.
The best thing about showing here in FL is that our state affilliates get along and host APHA/PtHA combined shows! You can haul to one show and earn pints for both associations. It saves me a lot of time and money, and the prizes are great.
And you don’t have to qualify for the APHA World Championship Show, either. Just AQHA. Does that make winning an APHA championship any less impressive?
The combined shows are a great idea!
In this economy, associations NEED to make it more cost-effective to show or they simply will not have entries.
Take the AQHA worlds – you have to qualify – but I’ve heard it said more than once by some top trainers that the Congress is more competitive. I know a guy that is always up there in barrel and poles at the worlds (a few world pole wins and I think a couple Barrels as well) but he’s yet to win at the Congress.
I don’t own a pinto, but I love their spots!
Mainly, I just logged on to say, “GOD BLESS OUR VETERANS!”
And Happy Memorial Day to everyone else – critters included! Have fun and be safe!
OT:
Do any of you know who posted the videos of the Schulzhund on youtube (and the link to the video_? There was one video in particular where the dog was guarding a briefcase and would only bit when the person actually touched the case. Thanks.
The guarding would typically be Ring Sport or Mondio Ring – you might try those words on YouTube
Pinto world show is full of APHA horses who are trying to get their extra world champ titles, so it is as competitive as APHA for stock type (english and western). Although the regular PtHA shows allow you to shine on a talented horse who isn’t quite to the caliber of your breed’s show.
Something else they do, which I LOVE, is that if there aren’t enough PtHA shows in your area, they accept your placings as regular show points. At least last I knew, this may have changed. I only have one pinto show per year in my state and it is a 4 hour drive to get there. I was able to do my local hunter shows (A & C rated) and rack up enough points to earn the open horse of the year for hunter over fences that year. Ironically, my horse had been kicked days before the one PtHA show, so he didn’t set foot in the pinto pen all that year.
Might I add that he was a rescue horse, “free” with payment of his vet school bill to save his life from neglect and his only apparent training had been to follow small motorized things like gold carts, mopeds, 4-wheelers and the like. Got him mid-summer and by the next spring he was showing over fences. He was amazing! He sustained an injury and not sound any longer, but found a fabulous home as a foal nanny and very flashy pasture ornament (with written agreement to return if their circumstances change). My kind of retirement!
I ride with Rainbow’s End Farm in MN, well as often as I can, and she’s really active with Pinto shows. She’s also helping turn my couch potato mini into a driving pony and has bought horses with no histories at suctions and turned them into Pinto registered show ponies. Everybody gets a job, and she’s been passing out “Learn to RIDE before you BUY” articles for years. My QH mare has a lot of IBHA and ABRA points in her pedigree, and IBHA let one of the nicest stallions I’ve ever seen get show points since he was a grulla solid Paint. Now that I think of it, most of the show horses I know have color registry points instead of breed points
.
Got one hell of a fugly colt for ya, and this poor bastard lives up the street from me (and can keep me up at night, too). I’m not much of a judge in horses, but even I can tell you this poor little fucker’s got some ungodly long pasterns, and a back I could balance a board on from butt to head. And I do know this girl personally, and I will be kicking her ass the next time I see her, for both having an almost 3 year old STUD AND for holding him by doing nothing more than looping a lead rope-around his neck…..
http://stillwater.craigslist.org/grd/1761334212.html
Wow, those pasterns ARE terrible. And he’s got the usual wormy and not thriving look to him as well.
Wow, those are long pasterns, and he looks generally sickly all together. Definitely not stud material, at all. And if he bathes well, why wasn’t he given one before the pictures.
I do, however, want to comment on your statement “holding him by doing nothing more than looping a lead rope-around his neck…..”. I don’t see what is wrong with that? When I’m catching my horses from the field, I generally just lead them in with a leadrope looped around their neck just like she has it. Mine are also taught to lead by me holding onto their forelocks. Maybe it’s a training thing?
Sure, we’ve all done that – but for a sale picture, wouldn’t you want to spend the extra 2 seconds to put on a halter?
Ditto on the “What’s wrong with holding him with a lead rope around his neck?” My Thoroughbred gelding and Morgan gelding are on 24/7 turnout and I regularly move them around from run-in to paddock, from paddock to field, with nothing more than a loop of baling twine around their necks. They come along like the good boys they are. If anything spooks them, it’s an instant’s work to let go and jump out of harm’s way if I can’t immediately get them back under control.
Of course, I’m doing this within the confines of paddock and field. I wouldn’t dream of doing it outside a fenced enclosure. Then it’s halter and lead rope, with the throatlatch clipped on.
Love the color description: “sorrel with black trim”. Yeah, aka “bay.” Tells a *great* deal about the knowledge level of his owner.
I used to trail ride with a new horse owner whose husband bought a “brown horse with black stockings.” I said “Oh, you mean a bay,” and she corrected me.
;o)
“Sorrel with black trim” – it sounds like the latest style in kitchen cabinets. Truly snorkworthy.
I show both APHA and PtHA, at a local, “non-world show” level. I typically tell people who ask that the Pinto group is much more family friendly, where as the Paint group is more “cutthroat”. I enjoy both groups enough to participate in both state clubs, and try for year end awards, but I definitely appreciate them for different things. The Pinto shows are much more laid back and relaxed, that is for sure!
Future blog fodder? http://www.quarterhorsespot.com
This website blew my mind!
I have to agree with you. We have a lot of Youth kids at my barn, and they prefer to go to the PtHA world show over the APHA. They said it’s way more fun and the parents like the more friendly, laid-back atmosphere. I think there is, and will always be, more prestige associated withan APHA world title, even though you don’t have to qualify for either show. Sad, but true. At least around here, anyway.
http://www.neoequus.us/Page_3.html
Evidently it’s completely possible for that coat pattern to pop up after a few (quite a few) generations. Which as a former Appaloosa person, I find totally funny. Do you know how many times brightly colored nice built apps are crossed and a solid foal results? lol.
Just make sure the event you attend allows your breeding stock to compete. This is from their website: “Breeding Stock Pintos are not allowed to participate in PtHA events unless specified by the event rules.”
True. They have separate classes that are specified in the show bill, so as long as you look at that first and don’t just show up and assume, you should be fine.
A funny story about Paint vs Pinto:
My mom and her husband used to live in Arizona and went to a lot of rodeos and local horse shows. My mom grew up riding horses on a ranch (in the 40-50′s), and later in life, fell in love with my arabs.
So one day she calls me and asks, “What is the difference between Paints and Pintos?” I told her Paints are QH and/or TB, and Pintos are everything including Paints.
Big pause
Mama says “So Paints are QH with color? When did QH’s get so ugly? Why do they move with their heads so low? We went to a Pinto show a couple weeks ago, and so thoroughly enjoyed it, we decided to hit the Paint show, thinking we’d see more of the same. I was so disgusted and confused! We kept hanging around, waiting to see “the pretty horses” but they never showed!”
My mom will be happy to know there will be more “pretty horses” to see at the shows. *grin*
OMG I can very much relate to your mom’s thought process!!
Plus, as a kid, I often heard the word “painted” to refer to both Paints and pintos, which led me to believe that “Paint” and “pinto” were synonymous. I thought it was just like palomino, a color not a breed, and that Paints were just pinto Quarter Horses.
(Same thing with Appys… I thought they were just spotted Quarter Horses!)
lol the stock breed world is so foreign to me!
Yeah, I as a kid I remember someone (not a horse person, but they seemed to know what they were talking about…) tell me that the difference in the terms was ‘Paint’ was for horses and ‘Pinto’ was for ponies. =P
So I have a little paint mare that came from CBER. I have no clue what her lineage is, but from reading the PtHA website, does that mean that she can be registered?
She can, indeed.
As long as she doesn’t look to have draft blood.
Some of those spots on the horses look like bleach spots on your clothes. Not cute.
When I bought my 3 y/o paint gelding (yes overo) I planned to register him both APHA and PtHA and planed to show Pinto. The idea was he would be the “step up” horse to get me there. Began his training, blah blah blah. Turns out he doesnt like pleasure. So we tried drill team and are now loving that and cows. So I decided not to register him PtHA since I wasnt going to go to the shows.
Now Ive began to reconsider. Not only will it increase his value (not that I ever plan to sell him, EVER, but you just dont know what will happen in life), but I continue to hear of such good things from the Pinto shows. My past experiences with showing was always no fun and extremely comptitive. But like I said, I have heard such good things about Pinto; that its fun, the horses enjoy it and there are a ton of classes to do that arent just pleasure or eq.
So I am reconsidering it. Trail may be an option, horsemanship and discipline rail. It may just be something in our future. Thanks for the informative post Fugs.
I think it’s great to have low show fees and multiple judges!
But if you allow pretty much anyone and everyone into your registry, then what is the value of being registered in it?
I think it would make more sense to call it a “PtHA-sponsored Open Show” or something, and let non-PtHA horses show in certain classes. They would collect less registration fees of course, but it would still be “exclusive” and thusly more valuable to be registered there.
Does this mean my solid black, 1/2 appy, 1/4 hano, 1/4 TB mare cannot be registered?
I think it has to do with Appaloosa characteristics but you’d have to call on that.
I know this is off topic and I’m shilling, but please! pleeeeease help us help horses:
Pepsi Refresh Project
I know the power of the fugly blog readership can do amazing things – there’s only three days left!
I’m all for the showing aspect of what you’re posting, but seriously? You think it’s okay that 99% of the horses in the world can probably be registered as a “Breeding Stock Paint”??? That’s ridiculous.
And am I the only one who never heard of a “North American Spotted Haflinger”?? WTF? I gotta go on Dreamhorse right away and see if I can find one of those. Sounds like a disastrous cross to me.
I think it’s okay for showing purposes. Do I think it’s ok to register your Standardbred/Morgan/TWH cross as a Pinto and think that has now magically made it a purebred so you should breed it? Of course not. But if this registration gives it a show circuit that it can show in that is more appropriate for it than the typical stock-horse-biased open show, I think that is GREAT! I am the first to admit (and I HAVE a stock type horse) that MOST open shows are wildly biased in favor of stock type horses and it is hard to find shows where your gaited horse, Arab, Saddlebred, etc. will have a fair shot.
Hence the point of Breed shows. When you are in a HUS class with a QH, TB, Arab, Saddlebred and a Halflinger; and you win Champion on your Paint, that doesn’t mean you have a Champion Paint HUS horse, it means your Paint was better than the other breeds or the judge favored Paints. Whereas if you win HUS at a Paint show, your Paint was better than all the other Paints and was really and truly the Champion Paint HUS.
Absolutely. And breed shows are much easier to judge because you only have that one standard in front of you in the same class at the same time.
But of course not everybody can afford to do the breed shows, so I’m all for any organization that allows people an opportunity to compete and have a chance to succeed and therefore enjoy the experience and keep competing. The more training and showing, the better. You know how often horses get into trouble in life if they are not trained, and shows provide an incentive to train.
Or, for that matter, if you have a rarer breed there may not BE breed shows you can get to in your area.
Have you read the PtHA rule book thoroughly? It has been a few years since I have and I am not going to take the time now. I am skeptical about them registering the Standardbred/Morgan/TWH cross unless it has spots, also the solid APHA horses. The last I knew, for a solid colored horse or pony to be registered with PtHA, it had to have a least one PtHA registered parent. Accepted outcross breeds are breeds that a PtHA registered horse/pony may be bred to and the offspring registered PtHA without jumping through any extra hoops. I don’t think PtHA registers horses/ponies of those breeds unless they have spots. Of course, the way to know for sure is the contact PtHA.
P.S. Hate the term “breeding stock†for solid colored horses and ponies.
You are correct. They either have to be solid and PUREBRED with papers from an approved outcross breed, OR they can be spotted and mixed breed. I’m sorry, I probably wasn’t clear about that. There are restrictions. So your solid Arabian is fine, your solid Oldenburg is fine, but the weird crossbred I mentioned would have to have spots to be registered (and my point stands, it still shouldn’t be automatically considered breeding quality because now, voila, it has papers).
IMO the word “Registered” does not = “Breeding approved” – I think they could find a better term than to call them “breeding stock” personally…but I’m on board for affordable shows!
True, I’m not thrilled with the name. Although I think ALL registries should start out with the horse being conditionally registered and then advance them into the breeding stock division after they’ve won X points or, in another competitive discipline, shown they have some talent. You know, if you’re competing in dressage or eventing or endurance, that’s cool too. Wouldn’t that be the best thing ever, if you couldn’t register foals from any parent that hadn’t advanced to the level of breeding stock?
I can dream, right?
Points past their 3 year old season-PLEASE GOD!!! and conformation inspection.
I think requiring a horse to earn enough points to gain the status of breeding stock (no matter the color) is an excellent idea! It could make “Breeding Stock” an actual achievement to be proud of rather than a “oh, this one wasn’t spotted, so it’s just breeding stock.” Wouldn’t that be something?
And I’d like to throw out my own thank you to all the veterans out there – thank you for putting your lives on the line for our country and our freedom! You are remembered!
This is OT – I’m working on becoming a re-rider, and I’ve been thinking long and hard about what I’d like to do. Trails are a definite, and I’m really thinking about dressage (after I get myself in better shape and make sure I can still sit a horse decently – beginner lessons first!) I’ve been revisiting favorite breeds and looking at ones I may not have really considered before. I know gaited or no will not affect the trail riding, but what disciplines will it affect and why?
Thanks, guys!
It’s my understanding that dressage horses MUST w/t/c both directions in the traditional manner. If they have additional gaits, at least at the lower levels, that the judge never sees, nobody cares. In my barn we have a TWH that paces instead of trots, and he NEVER gets points for his trot portions of this dressage tests, because he doesn’t have diagonal pairs. There is a different horse that has a special gait that I don’t know what it’s called but it is essentially a four-beat trot, but he can and does traditional trot as well. He does fine at the dressage shows, because he uses his regular trot in the tests. If you want to do dressage for points, I would consider this, however, I think that dressage is valuable for ALL disciplines whether or not you ever show in it. If you don’t care (as the TWH owner does not) that the pace isn’t the “traditional” trot and are just worried that he takes his cues and behaves and has a nice working, or collected or extended gait, then it won’t matter to you.
I like the way the Australian Warmblood Association studbook is set up (just had to deal with them for my Arab Warmblood mare). They have different divisions to their studbook, the first bit is Warmblood Identification, have to have 25% minimum warmblood in their bloodlines, can only register with if the warmblood in their bloodlines is registered breeding warmblood, basically it’s for all the horses with warmblood in them that aren’t breedworthy but still need warmblood papers for shows (like my arab warmblood mare, pretty little thing, she’s only 14.3hh, and just looks like a short fat arab), if they’re bred the foals aren’t eligable for registration. Next section is the studbook, horses must taller than 15.3hh and undergo an inspection, conformations and movement is scored, to be accepted into the studbook horses must have scored over 60%. The Head Studbook is the same as the studbook except horses must scored over 70%. The Elite studbook requires same as the studbook, horses score over 60% in a novice dressage and a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a D grade jumping (1.15m if I remember correctly) OR 1st, 2nd, 3rd in Novice eventing OR points in C grade jumping OR points in medium dressage.
Personally I think all studbooks should work like this, one section for identification/papers whose babies aren’t registerable, and one section deemed breed worthy.
Thanks for the info. I might register my mothers horse with the PtHA since APHA to me seems ridiculous with their registration. When she was born the owner then had her registered APHA. However she was born solid chestnut with 4 white socks. Now at 6 yrs old she only has 2 white sicks and white spots all over her like polka dots. But they wont change her registration so to them shes still solid and wont put a different picture on her registration without a fee of about $70 for just the picture.
And speaking of registration I have one OTTB that has a tattoo but the letter cant be read. Tried the free tattoo search and sent them pictures and everything else they asked for and they couldnt find him.
She might still be “solid” ifthe spots arent big enough. Also, the skin underneath must be pink for it to be considered an actual spot. My mare looks solid (check the avatar…), with 4 white socks and a blaze, and LOTS of white speckles the size of a pencil eraser, but none of it counts. What she does have is a huge white spot on her belly, where you never see it. Everybody tells me it’s her “lucky spot” because it gave her the regular registry papers.
The associations have inspectors at the shows if you ever need a ruling on the amount of white you have. Good luck!
I also thought the photo replacement fee was dumb! My mare’s papers have her weanling picture on them. It doesn’t even really look like her!
Most of her spots are about the size of the bottom of a 12oz soda can. I was told they had to be an inch or more to count. The skin is pink underneath but because she wasn’t born that way APHA says she is still breeding stock. But she’ll NEVER reproduce as long as shes under my care. Her mother shouldn’t have been bred to begin with. Her two foals ended up with her crappy attitude and long back and not taller than 15h. The only part that I find amusing is that she was given to me because she didnt have spots and now shes covered in them.
I never really thought of pinto as a breed, just colored horses that can’t be registered paint. So anything can be registered now? I could register my 4 yr old palomino paint gelding who I have no idea who his parents are? I’m not into breed shows, I show at NBHA and IBRA shows with my breeding stock paint and grade appendix mare, but for showing pleasure it seems like a good idea. As long as everybody doesn’t think they can now start breeding their fuglies because their now registered….
That’s my feeling. I’m all for showing them – just don’t use it as an excuse to say YAY, they’re REGISTERED, let’s breed them all now!
*Groan* Nooooo pinto horse association do not include North American Spotted Haflinger! They do NOT need any encouragement. Not a breed. Bleh.
I think you have already talked about these folks on here before http://www.nash2006.com/fillys.htm
I am not a fan.
Oh, I am not a fan of making a LOT of things.
But once they exist, I am a huge fan of anything that encourages people to train them and show them. It does keep them off the kill truck!
Yeah – it’s def not a perfect solution (which, IMHO, would be an open show assn/circuit that was a step up from schooling shows, yet not as crazy as the breed shows.) Sounds like they’re trying to do something like that, and like something I’d totally check out if I had a horse of my own right now. Back when I had a horse and occasionally competed, even the low level dressage shows seemed to be getting crazy. Before I sold her I was taking my mare to more team penning competitions where the top prize was a $20 gift certificate to the local steakhouse than “real” shows, because I couldn’t handle the stress of them, and they weren’t fun anymore.
HAHAHAH the guy looks horryfied at what he is seeing himself.
How can you even tell this is a haflinger? It looks like a cheapo fugly to me, there’s nothing that screams ‘I am a true Haflinger, except with spots!’ at me.. It actually has somewhat of fugly-cross maybe-some-small-draft in it look…
and I realize that Haflingers are somewhat drafty built but honestly, would you pick it as a Haflinger?
OMG just…. don’t people…
You’re right. It looks like it’s kind of a Halflinger, but not really. It doesn’t look really poorly conformed, but to call it a spotted Halflinger would be like calling a wolf/dog cross a gray dog instead of wolf hybrid. And some of the other pics on that website are of horses waaayyy taller than any Halfy I’ve seen, but they all look fairly well put together. I think it’s just a labeling issue.
And I couldn’t figure out if that guy was afraid of losing his soul on film and he was trying to get out of the shot, or if he was absolutely terrified of that pony. I’d like to think that because he’s Amish, he objects to having his picture taken, but he was looking at the pony.
His expression IS priceless.
I love Haflingers…I love spots…I love SPOTTED HAFLINGERS.
But they’re just little paint/Haflinger crossbreeds. They’re not a whole BREED worth of horse. xD It seems so weird that they have their own, ah, ‘registry.’
Still. Every time someone posts that site I have a minor meltdown because I love both of those things so much. I promise, Fugs, if I ever become rich and famous I will buy many of them, geld the colts, and train them to be good little riding horses.
OT, but i don’t know where to go for this…
Does anyone know of a site that has the third party liability laws state by state (of illinois, specifically), like the signs they have in horse shows, or what it is? A little girl is interested in riding my pony, but I want to make sure that if something does go wrong, it won’t come back as a lawsuit.
Speaking to a person who is a knowledgeable professional in law is definitely worth your time and money here.
The Illinois Equine Activity Liability Act states, “This act stipulates that an equine sponsor or professional, or any other person, is immune from liability for the death or injury of a participant, which resulted from the inherent risks of equine activities. However, there are exceptions to this rule: a person will be held liable for injuries of an equine activity participant if he or she displays a willful and wanton or intentional disregard for the safety of the participant and if he or she fails to make reasonable and prudent efforts in ensuring the safety of the participant. In addition, a person will also be held liable for the injury of an equine activity participant if he or she is injured on the land or at a facility due to a dangerous latent condition of which was known to the equine sponsor, professional or other person.”
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusil745_47_1.htm
So, you should be OK as long as you make her wear a helmet and maybe have her on a lead line. Make sure her parents understand this before she gets on the pony, though.
If the pony is on your personal property (not a professional horse property) then your homeowners insurance probably covers you if the girl gets hurt on your property, even if it’s from a horse. Call your agent to find out!
Definitely call your agent because your homeowners probably does NOT cover your horse. My agent suggested a rider, which cost $22 a year, to cover liability against damange ir injury caused by my horse.
Definitely consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction. Also consider requiring anyone who rides at your barn to sign a waiver of liability that clearly outlines your barn rules. Besides protecting yourself from liability (which is why you DEFINITELY want a lawyer in your jurisdiction to look at it), it also is a good way to enforce your rules.
But really, don’t skip the important step of having a lawyer review what you can do to protect yourself. It can be expensive (or not–ask around), but it will help you protect yourself from liability.
I board at my trainers place — a lesson barn which has those waivers. It’s not on my personal property.
This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard about! Just call it a “horse registry” and be done with it! The Apps, drafts, and there are “spotted asses”, as well as mules, since they’re half-horse, that should be left in too. Sheesh…
For many very traditional lovers of horses, the “power” registries are often not filling the bill. They are producing horses that are pigeon-holed in one way or another (“halter” – wtf?), or producing animals that are taught to move in manner that makes them totally useless for any purpose other than exhibition. I am for anything that encourages the production of horses that are not cartoons.
Wish we could give a thumbs up. I’d totally give it to you.
Yes!
ARGH! I am sick to death of another spotted horse association wanting more money so they start adding in solid colored horses. If it’s not spotted or have spotted characteristics, IT WILL NOT PRODUCE SPOTS. PERIOD. Why can’t people pick up a copy of an equine genetics book and LEARN about equine genetics??? I don’t give a shit if your stallion has fifty spotted horses in his pedigree–if he’s solid black with a blaze and no belly markings, then guess what? HE WON’T PRODUCE SPOTS! Why do they call it “breeding stock” when it won’t produce color?
At least the SSHBEA is keeping only spotted horses in. They used to registered solid colored mares and geldings for information purposes only, which meant if the mare was bred you can’t register the foal SSH unless the sire was SSH. But they’ve done away with that. Although, they’re also doing away with the sabino horses, which is pissing me off as well–sabino IS a spotted coat pattern…again, ignoring genetics…
And another thing: why accept gaited horses when you don’t have a gaited division? Now, it is a good place for those who have jumping, barrel, or pole bending gaited horses. But all our other disciplines–dressage, rail, etc.–include the gait because it’s what the horse is bred to do.
Oh well. At least it’s nice to know that their show venue is based on horse type rather than breed. That will open things up for a lot of people.
Not totally true—tobiano works that way (if you have one or two copies of the gene, the horse manifests tobiano and can produce; no copies equals no tobiano spots [blood typing is available to make certain]. Dixie’s War Drum was the sire of 300+ tobianos, and one solid, but in retrospect, the one solid had white in its tail and was likely actually tobiano. The various overo patterns and their methods of inheritance are different, meaning recessive genes very much can come into play.
My “color failures” were usually out of my very nice Vandy-Leo QH mare and my tobiano Three Bars grandson, or my hardship-registered tobiano Paint mare (mother of my stallion) bred to Quarter Horses. My stallion followed in his father’s footsteps for some reason and his foals tended to take the mare’s color. Whenever I would sell one of those foals (thankfully usually fillies) I made sure to tell the new owners that their registered breeding stock mare would need to be bred to a spotted tobiano or overo horse in order to possibly produce color (this was long before blood typing). My color failures went to experienced 4-H homes and grew into nice little 4-H horses. My stallion was eventually gelded because of his poor color percentage; 15 foals, three tobianos (out of tobianos), one tobiano out of a solid, and the rest were plain cute little sorrels with few white markings. His babies were gentle, friendly and talented horses, born broke, but the lack of his ability to pass color wasn’t enough for him to keep his parts. And yes, I know each breeding to a non-tobiano was a 50-50 proposition; the numbers never went his way.
This was the late 1970s–early 1980s and I always kept track of horses I’d been responsible for bringing on this earth. I never wanted to be misleading when selling a breeding stock paint. The colts were always gelded before they left home, too.
To be honest, I think that certain coat patterns can manifest even if both parents don’t show any sign of color. In fact I know they can– I’ve seen spotted colts out of two horses that were quite frankly very plain. While I am told that Tobiano markings are dominant and a solid Toby won’t produce color, you have to consider sabino and overo horses.
There’s also Splash, which can be as small as a star, and produce a pinto horse. It also can be just a bottom heavy blaze, no white on lower lip, nothing. The full brother of my mare has the splash gene, the only way he could have gotten it was from his dam, whose only markings are hind coronet bands. That is it. Her sire was a liberally marked horse, not with any obvious pinto characteristics. So yes, at least with splash, a solid horse CAN produce a pinto one.
A solid colored horse will produce spots when bred to a spotted horse. Registering only spotted horses leads to the use of horses that are homozygous for spots in breeding without regard to their quality. (I see that the North American Spotted Haflinger Registry requires that the sire be homozygous tobiano or tovero.) Refusing to let a breeder use one of her/his best horses for breeding because it happened not to inherit spots diminishes the breed.
I know of a horse named Dam Sorrel. Her breeder bred a good pinto stallion to one of his best mares hoping for a high quality pinto foal. He got the quality, but not the spots. One can assume that a slightly different spelling was running through his head when he named her. Since this was not a color breed, Dam Sorrel lives on in the pedigrees of a number of horses today. (And since her breeder knew that she would not pass on spots, he used her to maintain quality in a couple of his non-pinto lines.)
You sure about that? How about all those AQHA horses that throw a sabino or splash gene? Look up Sallisaw Rose in the allbreedpedigree.com database. Technically a foundation bred QH but look at all that color. Neither AQHA nor APHA wanted to touch that horse until she started winning in NCHA, then APHA stepped up and registered her. There are several more examples including Big Chex to Cash, Gunner, the list goes on and on.
I am very excited about the new APtHA rules! Also, they have relaxed the rules for full registry from what I heard. I have a full registry tobi that didn’t have enough white to qualify for full registry pinto so I never bothered to pursue registry with pinto but now I will. It is true though that pinto is getting much more competitive because a lot of the paint people are flocking there to get their points and titles.
You can be a low expression solid horse with the genes to produce color, just sayin’. Personally, I think some registries should have exchange programs so these horses could be in the right artificial categories – we’ll take all your solid western-type babies if you take all our spotted ones. Throwing either baby out with the bathwater just because you prefer one over the other is stupid.
My mare is a registered Paint, and she’s a solid perlino out of a buckskin tobiano mare and a buckskin overo stud. Her three year old colt is a buckskin tobiano. So yes, solids can produce paints/spotted offspring.
As a general rule, I HATE horse shows. Played at a few and did well at a few but way too many people spending oodles of money on tack and fancy trainers but their horses couldn’t walk a straight line down a trail if their life depended on it. However, I could enjoy a show like you are describing. I wonder if Florida Pinto shows are like that?
Thank you, from a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, for your salute to veterans. Monday is really for those who died but it’s nice to salute those serving and those who have served.
You should come out to one of the shows to see what it’s all about. With the PWC (Pinto World Championship) starting June 8, the show season is over until September. That show will be at Canterbury and is Paint/Pinto combined, so it’s a big show. The next PtHA only show is in Tampa in October. Pinto shows are definitely fun, and you see all levels of horses and riders. They even offer walk/trot for novice amateur riders, which is great! Classes for breeding stock horses are FREE!! Just pay for your stall and fees.
For more info, show bills, pictures, rules, etc., go to http://fptha.com/
I have worked for/helped out our local Buckskin club for about 3 years now, I got bit by the buckskin bug and it has gotten me to want to show again. I am in the market for a nice buckskin/dun I can show, something I can keep for the rest of its life and be a show partner and companion. The people are funny, sweet and down to earth. The fee’s aren’t too bad, $12 a class and its double judged. I’ve always had a blast working for them, everyone has fun, the prizes are great and I’ve met lots of wonderful people. WAY less politics than big time shows, but you feel like you are in a big fancy one anyway
Looking for a dun horse for life? I have just the guy for you! Diego, my newly-rescued 7-year-old Keiger mustang, is cuter than a June bug, extremely smart, stunningly sure-footed, in training for the first time in his life, capable of anything, and already knows all about cookies. Email me if you might be interested in an introduction: ksrberck at prodigy dot net
Never read through all the comments, and on the PtHA website for registration they are looking for the damn and the sire so I don’t know if this has been asked and can’t find the answer… but I just purchased a palomino tobiano pony gelding, he is now 10, and his owner bought him at the auction as a weanling, so we have no sweet clue what his breeding is. Can he be registered with the PtHA? I thought registries like this were only for coloured horses, and sure they sometimes say parent has to be registered with us or outcrossed with that, but if he is obviously a pinto and meets the qualifications… It’d be nice to have him registered as something, gives him a name and ownership papers and if it enables my daughter to show more, I am all for it. Besides, she would be over the moon at her *ahem* “fancy papered show horse”.
Absolutely, yes your pony can be registered! Your story pretty much mirrors mine. Go to pinto.org and see if you have a local chapter. Someone may be able to come to your house or stable to help you register him.
Waits for the flaming to start~
I love how stuck up some people are.
“But it isn’t exclusive then!”
“OMG, you mean anyone can show there? That’s so lame!”
“Well, but if you win against the same breed, then you are the best!”
Folks, I’ve been to state 4-H shows where Congress winners competed. I’ve been to open shows where World show winners competed. I’m pretty sure those horses didn’t degrade in value just because they put their sainted (and painted) feet outside a ‘real’ breed show. Maybe the real fear is that if you went into a show circuit as open as a Pinto circuit is beginning to be, your horse might be revealed as being a fake mover. Maybe, when you take your horse into an arena with several different styles of horses, you will find out that your horse is only 80% of its breed standard, while that other horse is 90% of its standard, and will beat you every weekend.
I guess I sound all stuck up myself, with my ‘holier than thou’ attitude. But it burns me to watch people post about how exclusive and better an AQHA show or an APHA show is, when I’ve been there and know that the only excluding factor in showing at those breed shows is whether you have the money to pay the big trainers to win. I know people who get their precious Superiors by filling classes with enough horses of inferior quality to ensure that their favorite gets the point. I mean seriously, there are ways to the ‘top’ in every breed organization. That’s fine, that’s one aspect of showing. But why knock the Pinto association for opening up its shows? Doesn’t that just mean that now, any horse that wins in a Pinto show has proven he is the best of many, instead of the best of a few?
I won High point Youth in my state when I was a kid for my breed association. Pretty cool sounding, but there were only about ten kids in contention. How much better would it be to go out and be a winner against 100 kids?
Add to that the classes. Disciplined rail? Trail? You mean I can compete in a class based upon my skill and training, and not based upon whether my horse’s knees are flat and his hocks ‘deep’?
Sign me up.
This is very off topic, just am curious of your opinion on this creative sentence for Dually’s torturer:
http://www.ktiv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12551693
I’m glad he has to pay restitution; am flummoxed that he doesn’t have to spend much time in custody, but somehow it is fitting.
I am genuinely curious as to why you’d encourage registering and showing with an association that accepts literally everything but drafts, appies and mules. Haven’t you complained in the past about breeders who breed crap and then register it with any registry that will accept the horse, and then advertise their horse as title winners in an attempt to make them look like they’re good for something other than being a pasture pal? I’m a long-time reader and even longer-time horse enthusiast with very little experience when it comes to registering and showing horses (I’m more of a putter around the arena and trails gal), and I’m really interested to know what it is that makes registering with the PtHA any different than registering with that Blue Eyed Horse registry (or whatever it was) that you’ve posted about before. Would anyone mind explaining it to me? (Kindly, please. I’m not disrespecting anyone with this comment, just curious and eager to learn).
Hey, register and show ANYTHING – just don’t necessarily BREED it. That’s the difference.
I’m all for as much showing as possible. Now, things like BEHA are silly because they don’t have shows or any kind of organized award system. Basically, you are paying an enterprising person for a piece of paper she prints off her computer. It’s hard not to snark at that. There is no other benefit to a registry like that.
To quote the website:
“The equines that do not meet the color requirement, but have at least two or more Pinto characteristics (blue eyes; leg white above the knee or hock; white or multi-colored hooves; collective white in the eligible zones, but not enough to qualify for color; pink skin) are registered Breeding Stock. ”
Actually, these ARE pinto characteristics indicative of a minimal Sabino or Splash overo pinto, so it’s not just registering anything. “Pointy” socks and/or lip white are signs of a minimal sabino–which when and if bred, can throw a wild marked sabino even if the other parent isn’t sabino marked. Blue eyes can indicate the horse is carrying the splash overo gene.
Laura Behning shows good examples and discusses Sabino and Splash on her colorful Morgans website: http://www.morgancolors.com/sabino.htm
I have my mare registered with the PtHA (she’s a b/w pinto) My reasons for doing so was to have something else for proof of ownership on a grade horse. If there were any PtHA shows in my area I would certainly take her though
Maybe once she finishes her training up (and heals from a nasty freak accident) we’ll look into shows…
I used to show on the Arab circuit, until they priced me out with their ever increasing costs. Since my horses were Half Arabian pintos, it was easy to switch over to the Pinto shows. The show costs were a fraction of what I was paying, so I was thrilled. I was also thrilled with the family atmosphere and the nice folks there. To think because you do not have to quality to show at the world show, that the awards are just given out to anyone who shows up on a backyard nag is silly. Right now, the show is not large enough, but someday they will be and then you probably will have to qualify. The people showing on the Pinto circuit work very hard and actually EARN their awards. The horses are very nice, esp. at the World Show level. I have shown there many times. The shows are fun because of the variety of the pinto types. You can sit in the stands and watch ponies, minis, Arabian types, stock types, jumpers, pintos that work cattle, contest, etc. I show Arabian (pleasure type) horses, ponies, and miniature horses with Pinto. It’s a show that truely has something for everyone. The quality is there because so many exhibitors have become uphappy with their old registries ( usually because of costs, snobbery, politics, or no longer having fun ) and made the switch over to Pinto – so we get horses that often have been or still are, actively showing at the Paint, Saddlebred, Shetland, mini, Arabian, etc. etc. etc. shows. Most pintos are double registered with other registries. Most of the horses showing at the pinto shows are very deserving to be there. Occasionally, someone finds a “diamond in the rough” sitting forgotten in a pasture, registers it, trains it, and shows it to a world championship and that is another benefit of the Pinto shows. You can find a “Cinderella” and come home with an award, but you had to earn it. You don’t get them for just showing up.
Very well said.
Pinto is great,rescue mares and geldings that meet the color requirements can be registered and the proud new adopters can go to awesome,family friendly shows! Registration is reasonable,the variety of classes at the shows encourages participation,and the atmosphere at the Pinto shows I have been to has been both friendly and conscientious.
I loved showing PtHA with my gelding. He didn’t quite fit – try being an overo Pleasure type who moved like the dressage horse he was. (Pleasure types at the time were 99.9% tobiano.) Judges didn’t always know what to do with him. But, he certainly was no longer the only colored horse in the rail classes either. I also loved being able to count my dressage show placings for PtHA points! (The local shows did not have them – had to go to Tulsa or the Western Canadian PtHA Nat’ls at the time.) In the short, short time I showed PtHA, my gelding was Top 5 in halter for his age/type in Oregon PtHA (at 11!), Top 5/10 Nat’l PtHA HOTY for Show Hack, got his ROM in Dressage and other various English discipline points/awards I have forgotten because they weren’t my favorites.
It’s a personal preference for me that the new registry allowances are not something I’d like to see. But, then, I also miss the times when all registration papers looked like official documents, not easily forged desktop publishing things. (My guy’s PtHA papers have his baby photos on it – and for that alone, are precious!) It’s certainly a good business decision though. Large turnouts keep the show circuits going and can help keep the shows from having to price themselves out of their average competitor’s budget range. This will only fuel the disgust that a lot of the larger breed association based people had for PtHA but really, that’s easily ignored. It’s not hard to figure out who’s “slumming” and they don’t win everything!
You didn’t name this as a specific point, but IMO, it’s the most important thing you’ve said in this entire post: “It just seems like a very good niche for people like myself who burned out on the big shows years ago because we couldn’t watch the abuse. And maybe if those of us who feel that way patronize these alternative circuits instead of AQHA, APHA, and ApHC, those organizations will have to stand up and take notice that they’re going to lose money if they don’t crack down on the bad apples. A lot of money.”
I mostly read this blog because it’s fun and to learn. I show dogs, though, and we’ve recently decided to switch to UKC. It IS less competitive, and my dogs do better there. That’s NOT why we switched- the group ribbons are fun but I can order my own from Hodges if they were THAT great and it’d save me $50 a weekend and gas. We switched because at least when I lose, I’m losing to someone else who is playing the same game I am- the “Show our dogs” game, not the “How much hair spray can I put on this dog before the judge notices” and not the political face games. I hope that as more people get equally discouraged with the main (AKC) show problems they’ll come over to UKC and we can have competition AND a registry that cracks down on bad practices.
I personally am with you on this – I think this is really neat and a great move for this association.
A little off topic possibly but Palomino is registering horses with one palomino parent as breeding stock. I am not completely sure about the particulars but I think the horse has to be sorrel.
Im in BC Canada… Does anyone know if any pinto shows are held out this way? Interested in having some good shows to go to. A few thigns appealed to me.. And I do have a couple with some spots!
windsongstables1@yahoo.com if any info!!
Personally I think they are a good idea. I dont agree with the idea of breeding ANYTHING to colour, and hoping for colour… but having said that, if it opens up the market and allows people to have a decent, affordable show to attend… Great!
I had never had so much fun showing as I did a few years ago showing in Ontario Pinto Horse shows! I am a middle aged re-rider who happened to buy a pinto mare and kept her at the place that hosted the shows. The shows are ton of fun, had great judges (often from the breed show world) were totally welcoming. It made me an ex-hunter/jumper rider try showmanship (great for instilling ground manners) trail, and games (that really helped my nappy mare realize forward was FUN) and western pleasure with the encouragement of the other riders and even the judges.
I no longer have the horse & am moving into dressage, but any horse I look at I always hope for a spot or two so they could be registered Pinto….very cool they don’t need them now.
I might be one of those showing up with a dressage horse. I think it is important to keep showing fun for the rider and the horse and I think it is healthy from a mental and physical point of view to be a bit “all-round” in riding disciplines.
See, I’m having a problem here with Admitting Minis, but NOT Drafts! I have a lovely Draft mare – she’s a gray Shire, but there ARE Spotted Draft Horses. Why not register Drafts? IMO – there’s a lot more usability from a draft horse than a mini.
I kind of have to agree here…there could be some potential for some neat draft/draft-cross classes if they were accepting drafts and crosses.
I LOVE discipline classes! When I was showing 4H, I had an old paint gelding who I loved taking in that class. It only showed up at one barn that held 2 or 3 shows a summer, but it was so much FUN! Stopping, backing up, counter canter, posting trot, two point, all in our western show turnout. I loved it!
I also love a class called ‘versatility’ that it sounds like Pinto shows would like. I only ever did it at the local regional youth show, but you’d go in for an English pleasure class, have 5 minutes to swap out your saddle and your outfit (there was a bit flatbed in the arena for your stuff) and do a western pleasure class, then you put on your wraps and a helmet for a barrel run. You had to do it all on the same horse…some people were jerks and would bring in three different horses and I never saw them reprimanded, but it was way more fun to do it on the same horse. It was especially fun when I found out my 24 year old gelding really LOVED galloping barrels.
Anyway, pinto shows sound like a blast. If I were to ever try showing again, it sounds like a place I’d like to go.
Yes,you can register your pony.Sire-Unknown,Dam-Unknown. Pinto will want a birthdate so consult with your vet as to the dental age of your pony,then pick a day and month of the year he was probably foaled.Be careful choosing the type (stock,pleasure,saddle,etc.),perhaps go to a show to check out what the other ponies in the divisions look and move like,first.
On the “smart ass side” this is going to mean all dictionaries are going to have to be updated, and read that a “Pinto” is any horse except an Appaloosa or a mule, and “some may have, or used to have, large patches of a contrasting color.”
You guys who responded to my posted missed what I said:
“If it’s not spotted or have spotted characteristics, IT WILL NOT PRODUCE SPOTS. PERIOD.”
And honestly, the way I see it is this: yes, a solid horse can produce spots if bred to a spotted horse. But I think if you’re going to register a horse as “breeding stock,” it needs to be able to produce the type of horse that can be registered as the type that the registry was originally made for. That’s where I’m coming from.
But, since they accept gaited horses now, perhaps it’s another place I can register my SSHBEA mare. She’s 3/4 TWH and 1/4 QH…it’s nice to have another place to register her.
Then why bother getting homozygous tobianos
? The fact of the matter is, spotted inheritance is not as well known as some people might like to think it is, solid horses can be used in a spotted program to produce excellent show horses, and something has to be done with the color-flopouts of the world. I agree there is no point if the people registering horses are just using it as a new show venue instead of a part of the Pinto pedigree philosophy, and it depends on what you value as more important: that every generation of a pedigree has the right coat color (nearly worthless, since spots can be bred out and in at any time), or that every generation of a pedigree has the right conformation for your sport. I saw that line, and I don’t think you really know what you’re arguing over.
But, as I said in my last comment, the dam that produced a pinto had only hind coronets when bred to a horse who’s lines had NEVER produced a pinto and were quite popular. You gonna tell me you could guess that she was carrying the splash gene? You can’t always tell, that’s what we’re saying.
OT, and not a “pleasant” topic, but I wrote a little update on Doug Spink if you want to read it.
http://sharonmcleod.ca/blog/archives/602
I realize that Memorial Day is for remembering those who gave “the last full measure of devotion†for our freedom. If you would like to do something for terminally ill veterans before they die, go to the Pepsi grant site, http://www.refresheverything.com/ , and vote for the Warrior’s Wish Foundation which grants wishes for military veterans who are battling a life-limiting condition. http://www.refresheverything.com/warriorswishfoundation . You have to register/sign in at the main page first.
Since veterans need to be remembered on more than one day a year, next month you might vote for Land of Lincoln Honor Flight – http://www.refresheverything.com/illandoflincolnhonorflight . They fly WWII veterans to Washington, DC to see the WWII memorial. They currently have 300 rapidly aging WWII veterans on the waiting list. The $50,000 grant would allow them to take 104 of them to see the memorial. Unfortunately, they are too low in the ranking to get to the top 10 in 2 days this month. Because they are in the top 100, they will be back next month. Don’t forget them once Memorial Day is past.
OT, but I wanted to post something fun I discovered yesterday.
It’s a helmet cam through a cross country course at the 2010 Rolex Championship (I’m not an eventing person, so I’m not sure if that’s the right name or not). Takes a while to load, but it’s really cool to watch!
http://www.runhennyrun.com
I cant wait to find out if there are international Pinto shows here. My new 32 inch AMHA horse was 2008 miniature Pinto horse of the year in A devision halter…I think its very cool that they allow the little ones in the club. I will look into getting my miniature shetland into the club too !
I’m going with my Half-Arab/NSH mare for the first time. We’re driving down from New Hampshire and leave next Friday. Is anyone else going?!
This is my mare:
(I don’t know why, but your link didn’t work. Sorry!)
Wow!! She’s BEAUTIFUL!
You think this is bad? Check out this association that a friend of mine found.
Blue Eyed Horse Association: http://www.diamond-s-farm.com/files/Blue_Eyed_Horse_Association.htm
OMG: Congratulations, you have just found the the Association that is taking the horse world by storm!
Suuuure. And they’re a 501(c)?? And looking for donations?
All the pics are missing, and none of the links work. Yeah, I’m sending my money now!!
Hmmm, I think I’ll start a registry. And solicit for donations. I think… maybe a registry for solid colored horses. No marks anywhere on their body. No socks. No stars. Nothing.
Anybody wanna donate to me????????????
(And please, don’t tell me this is already a registry!!! I mean, they have spotted, painted, etc. Please say no!!!)
I looked, and I didn’t find one for solid horses…which honestly surprises me. I’m definitely waiting for it!
I did the Northwest Pinto circuit for several years, first with leased horses than with my saddlebred. I loved it because I could show my guy at a greater number of shows, in a greater number of classes, for a lot less cost than an ASB show. Since he wasn’t gaited and I wanted to turn him out every day ASB limited me to western country pleasure and hunter country pleasure. With pinto I have 25-30 classes to pick from between the open and ammy classes. I made lots of friends and we all had a great time at the shows. I stopped due to time and money constraints. But we went to world and got our championship belt buckles and our Pinto of the Year trophies. Now we are working with a dressage trainer once a month and Captain is loving the new regime. Eventually I would like to go back and finish up a few ROE’s but until then I still make an appearance, sans horse, at a few shows just to say hello to my friends.
SavingFaith, that mare is gorgeous! Good luck at the show. My own PtHA story:
Here’s his photo:
Last December, I bought a little pinto-marked pony as a friend for my gelding, who was going crazy without companionship. Bought the pony from a woman who had bought him at auction as a starved, rain-rotted yearling-ish colt. She fattened him up, got him halter-broke, but then needed money so sold him to me for $250. I got him home, named him Andre, and wondered if I could register him anywhere. I found PtHA, and one of their members came out to my place to measure him, take photos, and help me with paperwork. Talk about personal service! So, my little 41″ mutt pony is now a registered Pinto pony. I took him to his first show a couple of weeks ago, and he got two Grands and a Reserve in Pony Halter! (three judges in one class). I love that PtHA has classes dedicated to ponies…levels the field for the little guys. They even have in-hand trail for ponies, which I would like to compete in next year after some training. My show experience was awesome. Everyone was nice, it was low-pressure but still competitive, and the office ladies demanded that I bring Andre to their window so they could see him
CUTE OVERLOAD!
OMG what a NICE pony – and what a great story!
He has turned out to be the best pony EVAR. Super smart, and super brave. Doesn’t spook very easily, and has a calm mind for a 2 year old! Yesterday I had him tied to the trailer while I was grooming my gelding, and he ended up on the ramp with his leg over the lead rope. He stood there calmly until I noticed him and got him untangled. Next time the ramp gets closed!
http://picasaweb.google.com/christymae/20100515# more photos