Homes For Horses Coalition Conference 2010
May 11 2010
Last year, I foolishly wrote my notes on paper, which I proceeded to lose — which was really a shame because some valuable information came up and it certainly didn’t stick in my head so it was gone forever. This year I’m here with a laptop like an organized, prepared person. 
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For those of you unfamiliar with it, the Homes For Horses Coalition was started as a response to the pro-slaughter Unwanted Horse Coalition. Unlike them, we’d like to come up with sensible solutions for the surplus horse problem that don’t involve killing them in horrendous ways. I know, how unreasonable of us. 
 One of the first topics that came up today, and one that I’d like to share with all of you, is how there are 9.2 MILLION horses in the U.S. and every year, less than 100,000 go to slaughter. For those of you like myself who are bad at math, that means one percent. And that percentage hasn’t been any higher for many years. So the truth is that even if slaughter had ended when the Texas plants closed, which of course it did not, that very minor amount of horses certainly would not create the crisis some pro-slaughter advocates allege, you know, with horses running wild in the streets. If anything has created the increase in horse abandonment and neglect, it would obviously be the major thing that has changed – the economy!Â
 One of the first topics that came up today, and one that I’d like to share with all of you, is how there are 9.2 MILLION horses in the U.S. and every year, less than 100,000 go to slaughter. For those of you like myself who are bad at math, that means one percent. And that percentage hasn’t been any higher for many years. So the truth is that even if slaughter had ended when the Texas plants closed, which of course it did not, that very minor amount of horses certainly would not create the crisis some pro-slaughter advocates allege, you know, with horses running wild in the streets. If anything has created the increase in horse abandonment and neglect, it would obviously be the major thing that has changed – the economy! Â
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But you all knew that, so let’s continue. I want to share some of the best of the conference with you. Here’s a good point – it was noted that, as a rescue (or even as a private individual), you need to decide if you are okay with assisting animals where law enforcement is not going to go for a prosecution, or if you feel strongly about there needing to be a prosecution. I tend to fall into the latter group. Lots of horses need help – I’d rather help horses in situations where we’re going to DO something about the person who put them into the bad condition in the first place, not just clean up their mess and allow them to go get another 10 free horses off of Craigslist and continue their backyard breeding and/or neglect. I like that it was mentioned that you need to think this through in advance. I have seen huge clashes between rescuers who will zip their lips about the neglectful owner’s identity if the animals are surrendered, and rescuers who believe you HAVE to out the bad guys to stop them. I can definitely see how much drama would be avoided if everybody on a humane investigation was on the same page from the start!
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GFAS talked about their sanctuary/rescue accreditation program, which started last year. They have now accredited five equine rescues: Angel Acres, Habitat for Horses, Equine Voices, the Horse Harbor Foundation and Black Beauty Ranch. What I really like about their program is that they look at the whole picture – everything from financials to fencing, so you can really feel secure that if you donate to those rescues that your money is being well and wisely spent. And now I know something I didn’t know when this started – that they can and will reject rescues. They have shown they will not only set standards but enforce them. If you run a quality equine rescue, I strongly recommend applying for accreditation. It is not an easy process but it is really going to help you with getting donations and grants in the coming years, and it’s a seal of approval that lets your long-distance donors rest easy knowing that you are NOT some Internet scammer.
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The conference also addressed the hard task we all have of saying no when people beg us to take horses. I loved what Jill Curtis of Shiloh Horse Rescue had to say – she made it very simple. She asked people, if your donations dried up one day, could you still care for your horses? I have always believed this should be the bottom line standard on how many horses you take in. Both donations and grants are simply unreliable. Sure, after a few years, you can predict donation patterns to some degree, but it’s never going to be 100%. Keeping a number of horses you could pay for yourself is certainly a less stressful way to go. As several other people said, if you can’t say no, you shouldn’t be the one answering the phone. Others suggested letting all calls go to voice mail so that you can think about how to respond and don’t get caught on the spot dealing with a hysterical person who has 20 horses they cannot feed.
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More happening today. Here’s a question for you – if you were in a roomful of (good) rescuers, what question would you like to ask them to discuss and think about? If it’s already been answered, I’ll be happy to fill you in. If not, I may have an opportunity to ask for you.
Here’s some video of one of my favorite adoptables at Shiloh Horse Rescue. This is Broadway and, as is often the case, she has been waiting a little longer for a home because she is not a beginner horse. She is a super cute, spunky but sweet OTTB mare. I think she is adorable, and can’t believe she hasn’t been snapped up yet!
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152 comments to “Homes For Horses Coalition Conference 2010”
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This is a little disorganized-sorry! Can you ask GFAS (Jerry or Terry) whether they are site visiting annually for renewal of accreditation? Can you ask whether these good rescues could get through annual site visits
! I really think this is necessary, and as I’ve said before-we have a state horse health program in NY that does that (for all types of operations, and it is health-oriented and does not deal with some aspects of rescues like financials, etc). Great program, but it is voluntary, and few rescues apply for certification in it. As many will be aware, the KY EHWA (group started by 4 equine vets) proposes a similar program (and they want to extend their program to other states). I think we will see more regulation of rescues in the future, so are people willing? Prepared? Who should be involved in accreditation? Is it sufficient for the humane community to do it? Does it require the participation of equine veterinarians? State regulatory veterinarians?
Right now it is every three years after initial accreditation, but they will do a visit anytime they have reason to be concerned. If you visit an accredited organization and things are not as they should be, you can contact GFAS and let them know, and they definitely will investigate.
I agree – and I agree with Cathy about needing prosecution. That GFAS will follow up is great, but I wish they would also make public those rescues who applied and who were denied. Again, as with an individual, we can’t keep hiding these issues. (I understand GFAS has confidentiality agreements, but there must be a happy medium.) In the case of Whispering Winds Equine Rescue in Oregon, GFAS visited and immediately contacted authorities to initiate an investigation for neglect. The case is still open and pending. This is the second time this “rescue” has been under county scrutiny. Until people are willing to step up and speak out, unsuspecting donors will continue to send money and situations like this will be perpetuated. In this case, although having been denied by GFAS and having an open investigation (and having been pushed to “get rid of” 40 horses), the fund raising continues unabashed. They are even expanding into dog rescue. This kind of insanity has to stop some how, some way.
Oh, yes. Denkai sanctuary, which I was thinking about helping, just bought (“came to an arrangement with,” actually) a nice place; a boarding kennel that also rescued and adopted out. They specialized in pit bulls. In a poor economy where donations are drying up. While still begging for donations to buy a skid steer, after their tractor broke. I’ve been a little hinky about their finances for a while, but this put me over the edge.
Especially because they are unloading the long-term rescue residents – mostly pit bulls – as fast as they can, with special discounts on adoption fees. (In an area that has dog fighting going on.) And now they are begging for homes for their long-term horses, because they are cutting back on their horse program. So much for being a sanctuary!
Sadly, Ruthie
I didn’t think badly of Denkai until I read an article where she admitted she started the rescue at a time in her life when she was so precarious financially that it kept her up at night worrying. C’mon folks…get your house in order first before you rescue. When you are broke, you can still help by volunteering for another local rescue…please don’t take in animals when you don’t know how you are going to pay your heating bill.
I hear you Ruthie! And what pisses me off is that the Greeley Tribune has run sob stories about her rescue twice in the past few months. And yeah, we have a real dog fighting problem in this area, as well as … guess what? Illegal horse racing.
I first learned about it when I walked into into my little feed store, to buy grain. They had all this racing equipment in stock–you know, the blinders, the colorful numbered saddle pads, and the tiny racing saddles (a Hispanic man was there buying an all white set for his black horse).
I said to the clerk, “What’s going on? Why all this racing stuff?â€
He said, “Underground racing. Horses are earning more up here than down in Arapahoe Park.â€
A few days later, I learned a bit more from my favorite UPS lady. She has a friend who lives near this underground track. Apparently, during the spring and summer, there are days when all these expensive cars like Lamborghinis and Rolls Royces pull into the drive, (mostly very wealthy Hispanics). Anyhow, this friend of hers witnessed a match race, in which the winner bagged 5.8 million dollars!
Scary, huh? Because you know unregulated big purse horse racing = cruelty to horses. I’ve heard of people shooting the slow horses right there on the track, over-racing horses, and even stealing horses to race (especially if they’re fast-looking studs–they really go for the studs). And what’s worse is the police aren’t doing anything about it, probably because big gangs and money are involved.
One teensy suggestion for Shiloh regarding their videos, if I could? I’d like to see gait transitions in addition to the walk, trot, canter in-stride video. Especially if I read that a horse is not for a beginner, I’d like to see how he or she does during transitions. Just a thought, especially for OTTBs. Thank you for the wonderful job you’re doing, too!
RE: a question for good rescues. Before I donate/support I always want to know what their euthanasia policy is. And Im not talking about horses that are severly ill or or injured, thats a no-brainer. Im talking about horses that for whatever reason are unadoptable despite a rescues best efforts to find a home. Personally, I have a real problem with rescues who end up “warehousing” large numbers of unadoptable animals while untold numbers of young, healthy, sound, trained ones board the slaughter trucks with no hope because all the rescues are full.
A wealthy woman started a non-profit rescue in our state a few years back. It is actually a nice facility and from what I have been able to learn its very well respected and run. They have about 50 horses on the property, and from the descriptions most seem to have issues that make them pretty much unrideable. Their policy is that any unadoptable horses will be able to live forever in sanctuary at their facility. The same dang horses have been listed on their website for as long as I can remember and they dont seem to do many adoptions even though at first they aggresively promoted them. More recently they dont seem to be even offering the horses for adoption at all, instead they are asking for donors to sponsor them.
This bugs me to no end and I will not financially support this type of operation. Here is a person who single-handedly has the resources to actually make a real difference in the local horse community and instead has turned into a horse warehouse that is always full.
Yes, her horses may all be deserving and sweet and loving but if you cant move them along into new homes then why not humanely euth so you can save even more horses who you CAN adopt out. How many adoptable horses could you have saved in the same 10 to 20 year time period you may “warehouse” just one unadoptable one?? I just dont get it…end of rant.
On a more positive note, Jason and Tawnee Preisner from NorCal are turning their rescue officially into a Humane Society. According to their blog, they are sick and tired of Animal Control not doing their job and leaving horses in horrible situations. They are at “college” right now so they can officially be certified as Humane Officers and enforce the law when animal control wont.
If I ever had the finances to do any kind of rescue, it would be mainly a sanctuary for the oldies. I’ve always loved senior horses. The only horses I currently own are seniors – a 27 year old AQHA gelding, and a 23 year old Arabian mare. I love having horses just as pets, and if I had the money to provide for a few more, I would. I would have a younger riding horse, too, though. While I see where you’re coming from, I also feel like it’s each rescuer’s own prerogative as to where their money goes, and that they should be praised for rescuing at all, not condemned for only rescuing horses who you don’t consider useable. Those useless old horses have probably been working hard their whole lives. I think they should be able to spend their final days out in a green pasture, fat and happy. None of them deserve to be starved in a field or shipped off to slaughter. I really don’t feel like they’ve earned euthanization, either, unless they’re uncomfortable. If you don’t like rescues who take the seniors instead of young fit horses, simply don’t donate to them. Let them rescue whichever horses they feel are worthy; it isn’t your decision to make. If you feel like you could run a better rescue, than they can, then by all means do it. The more rescues the better.
I totally see where you’re coming from because resources are always limited. But the more I look at rescues and make decisions about how I want to help and how to allocate my time and money, the more choices I see. Think about it. The following are all themes I have seen with horse advocacy, and most rescues do some combination of services. In my opinion, they all have a valid place. Some appeal to me more than others but I really think that all of them further the goal of providing or promoting the humane treatment of horses:
Providing lifetime sanctuary for old horses.
Retraining and rehoming.
Rehabilitating starved horses.
Rehabilitating horses which are victims of cruelty.
Providing Euthanasia
Offering Gelding clinics and subsidies
Public Education regarding
Proper care of horses
Slaughter
Wild horse issues
Overbreeding
Specialty rescues focusing on breeds or types
Nurse foals
PMU horses
Thoroughbreds
Mustangs
Advocacy and Lobbying to change laws.
Making videos for youtube or the news that highlight horse issues.
Etc. (You could probably come up with many more)
I personally bought two older Thoroughbred mares destined for a bad end. They make me happy. I donate money to rescues I like. I have no problem with an organization that spends all of its money on public education and never rescues a horse. I mean, I think it would be very effective to put up a big billboard with one of those pictures of horses at the slaughter plant with injuries from the double decker, next to the freeway with some pithy saying. That costs money, which could be spent to rescue a horse, but I think it would be effective. The time that Fugly spends on this website translates into money too, but the public education aspect is probably way more valuable and has had more impact than any time or money she has personally spent rescuing horses. I think there is lots of need and people should direct their energies in ways they can, where their hearts are.
I understand what you’re saying. If she wanted to retire horses at risk, then she should have set it up that way, and looked for sponsors and donors for that purpose. I think what your issue is, is that her rescue started one way (rescue, train and rehome), and ended another (refusing to open spaces for more rescue/rehome and keeping all the horses and looking for donor/sponsors), and that now it seems like people who have been donating have been “fooled” or something.
I get your rant.
I also wanted to note that yes, there are some out there that want to retire at risk horses, and that’s great. I have seen what you’re talking about, and yes, it can be frustrating.
I agree with Yankeeatheart. As a dog behaviorist, I offered free services to rescue groups. I noticed that the no-kill rescues had the absolute WORST, most aggressive dogs. The Humane Society (open adoption / “kill” shelter) had super nice, sweet dogs.
I read Sternberg’s book “Successful Dog Adoption,” and found the answer. HS dogs were nice, because they were required to euthanize some, and the bad-tempered dogs were the first to go. Meanwhile, the no-kill groups also have limited space In their case, the adoptable dogs get adopted, and the temperamentally unadoptable ones stay on. Eventually, every no-kill foster home is filled with aggressive or super shy dogs that nobody wants, nor should they want them. Meanwhile, friendly and adoptable dogs are being euthanized everyday at the Humane Society, because potential adopters won’t go there because of their “kill shelter” status… or because they think it’s too sad going to a place where some dogs are euthanized. The no-kill place gets all the donations, and the Humane Society gets less… so has to euthanize even more animals.
When those no-kill warehoused dogs DO get adopted, it isn’t pretty. I’ve worked with dogs that got adopted after years in no-kill shelters, and they often ended up attacking their owner and visitors and causing serious damage.
If anybody on this list is in the market for a shelter dog, PLEASE read her book a few times, even if you disagree with her tough euthanasia stance. It has excellent advice on how to temperament test shelter dogs and find a bomb-proof dog who will adore kids, adults and other dogs. At first, I thought Sternberg was a bit harsh, but I re-read the book several times, and I’m a total convert now.
A good model to follow is something like Mo-Kan Border Collie Rescue. They only take on adoptable dogs with friendly temperaments. They place ‘em almost as fast as they arrive. BCs are great at nearly every sport, and there is a market for them, just as there’s a market for well-bred warmbloods or TBs. The dogs are in foster homes long enough to be evaluated and potty trained (if they’re not already), and go straight to an adopter. They have a high turnover, and I never see the same dog on their site for more than 6 weeks or so.
I totally agree with this. When my family was looking for a new cat after our old one passed we visited both animal care and control and the SPCA shelter, which is no kill. The vast majority of the SPCA cats were either very unfriendly and introverted or aggressive and pretty much every animal was identified as being “not appropriate for homes with kids under 12.” I understand some kids can be rough with pets but I don’t think there’s any reason why well supervised small children that have been raised to be conscientious of animals can’t share a home with cats. We then went to animal care and control a block away, which does euthanize for severe behavioral issues or if they get too full and they were overflowing with very sweet and friendly cats and kittens. Needless to say we adopted from the animal care and control.
It also seems like our SPCA gets so many donations that they cease to be logical about using the money. These cats lived in “kitty condos” with I kid you not…TVs!!! I’m sorry but somehow I think that money would be better spent on food and space for more homeless cats. I know it sucks seeing all the kittens and cats in regular old cages at animal care and control, but most of those animals don’t stay there long and because they keep their costs low they can help a much greater number of animals. I’m not saying that animal care and control couldn’t use a change to some of their policies, like stricter research of adopters, but after seeing how our SPCA wastes money and seems more interested in holding on to a few crazies than helping adopt out a lot of animals in need I would donate to ACC instead.
I’m a cat rescuer and I’ll tell you, some people are crazy.
However, I am adamant about indoor only, no balconies, no porches. I have everybody sign a contract to that effect. What happens? I do a follow up email on a cat I adopted out around 2003. Where is she? She’s dead. Died in 2007. Fell off the balcony. You do get frustrated with people refusing to follow simple rules that are in place so the cat won’t DIE. It’s not like I’m telling you that you can’t play rap music around the cat or paint your house purple because the cat doesn’t like it.
Just curious, why do you require cats to be kept indoors? Is it because of predators or are there other reasons? I’m in the UK and I don’t know anyone who keeps their cats inside, and while my cats mostly stay in now because they’re ANCIENT and get confused and lost these days, they always had free access to the outside when they were younger. I’m starting to realise that it’s normal to keep cats inside in the US, and I was just wondering what the reasons are. Hope this doesn’t sound like an attack on you, I’m sure the reasons are good but I just can’t work out what they are and I’m curious
Predators, cars, neighbors who don’t like kitty pooping in the garden and put out cat food with poison in it, crazy people who tape kittens to bottle rockets and light them up (I rehabbed that one)…the outside world is not safe at all for cats and therefore mine go out only on an indoors-only contract.
BECAUSE: you know that much-reported statistic about how almost ten percent of the human population is born psychotic? Well, IMHO they’re all pretty much here in the good ol’ USA.
How else do you explain the overwhelming numbers in daily media reports of the deliberate torture and murder of animals for the sake of torture and murder (as opposed to some other countries which are heedlessly cruel in the goal of obtaining food). Anti-cat people are some of the very worst torturers.
But some otherwise sane people who have the save-all-feral-cats-at-any-cost-itis are looniest of all. UK residents who allow their pet cats outside are considered by the feral cat cultists to be (a) cruel (b) stupid and (c) if the cat likes to go outside he’s “feral” even if he lives indoors most of the time. Bizarre — but that’s the stance of the feral cat fans in this area (who then proceeded to tell me that my own wonderful barn cat who: gets his long fur brushed daily to get the hay out and fleacombed daily to avoid potentially lethal spot-on flea controllers, who is microchipped, who follows me everywhere while doing barn chores, who eats organic cat food and disdains the rest, who snuggles (and purrs if you even so much as look his direction), who rides happily on shoulders and also rides albeit unhappily in a crate to 2x vet for wellness checkups, my cat is “feral” because he is “unhappy indoors” and that I am “cruel and abusive” for allowing him to be in his fav places, in the barn and hunting in the meadows!
What I’m trying to say is that some really warped cultural issues in every society lead to inappropriate labeling, strange accusations, and harsh criticism of “normal” animal care such as allowing cats outdoors in the country in a relatively safe environment to do cat “things”. Perhaps I’m lucky that my cat doesn’t have to worry about balconies or open windows and the road is a very long ways away – and haven’t seen a coyote yet nor have any of my (distant) neighbors who also don’t seem to think having a barn cat makes them cruel or abusive owners. Just don’t tell the feral cat people!
The big thing is that coyotes are around in so much of the country, even in suburban areas…we practically have them downtown here. Coyotes eat cats. The UK does not really have an equivalent predator…the only thing the average English cat is likely to run into is a fox, which is about the same size and not a serious threat.
We DO have them downtown here! I remember a few years ago, one of Sharon Osbourne’s little dogs got eaten in her yard. IN BEVERLY HILLS!
My cats have always been indoors only for all of the reasons mentioned. However, my friend has had problems with adopting dogs from shelters because her property is not fenced in. Now, she lives on a huge hay farm with no neighbors within sight, and a sleepy country road a quarter mile from the house. She invited the shelter to send a representative to her farm to check out the situation, but they would not even consider it. To me that is very sad. Some poor shelter dog could have had a wonderful life, but did not because of “policy”. Ah well, she rescued a German Shepard from a GD rescue and then provided for his thousands of dollars in hip surgery and now he gets to swim in the pond, annoy her ducks, and ride around in the golf cart.
I had a friend who is a vet tech who was working at the local ARF rescue. I found out a couple of weeks ago that she had been laid off. Why? They wanted to expand the (already very nice) facility. So they decided to lay off a bunch of professional and trained staff to afford it, relying instead on volunteers to help with everything. I am less than impressed with that move.
Happily, my friend had another job with a vet’s office within 2 weeks. And I will not be donating to ARF because of that move, which I feel was very mis-managed. Were I running a shelter and able to afford trained staff, you better believe I would want to hang on to them over expanding. Not enough room? Do a donation campaign to raise funds. Don’t take in more animals than you can house and place. The only reason I can see to get rid of well trained, **reliable** staff and replace them with volunteers, who are not always even knowledgable or reliable, would be to make more money.
Yeah, that miffed me a little bit….
If I were in a roomful of good rescuers I would wonder how they handle borderline rehabs. You know the ones: may or may not be sound, may or may not be sane. How do you determine if the rehab is a good idea, or if euth is a better one? I’m not talking mild intermittent lameness, but the stifled, the foundered, the torn. Or the batshit ones that may settle down with consistent handling and some manners. Where’s the line? How do you see the sanity behind the craziness?
Also, if only 100k horses went to slaughter, how did the KB’s make money? Is the markup 100% to cover transportation? I thought it was the fount of wealth, and that’s why folks closed their eyes to the suffering, but if a dozen people are sharing $2million bucks a year, I’m not getting it.
You are not that far off with slaughter. There are not THAT many kill buyers. There are some areas that have more kill buyers than others but you’re not going to go to a sale and find 20 kill buyers at it. If a kill buyer (who may not even be a legal citizen, as Joe from TB Friends points out) takes home $100,000 a year tax free, hey, that IS the fountain of wealth for him. No licensing, no training, all you need is a truck and trailer and a place to store horses sometimes and you are good to go.
The borderline stuff is really hard. We generally make decisions based on adoptability and finances. It really, really sucks to have to weigh lives, but when you do the math and the surgery/rehab costs for one horse equal the cost it takes to get six or seven others into a home, well you have to factor that in. I had to be part of that decision for the first time last fall, for a THREE year old very sweet horse. But the prognosis was too iffy, and would make him virtually unadoptable, for us to justify it. It really helps to have others on the board to talk to and help make decisions, and give you a margarita after.
When I get depressed about that stuff though, I think from the perspective that we didn’t “save” that horse but that horse helped save others. And I can look around and see those horses getting fat in the field and the gift he gave is much more tangible.
as for the batshit ones, those are few and far between, but we’ve had one we were going to euth for that. We give those a chance to shape up – investigate possible physical causes and put them with a trainer. *most* that “seem” batshit usually do a 180 just with time off in a big lush field (I’m guessing many of these might be related to ulcers). It’s the physical stuff that is usually the bigger headache.
My question: Why spend hundreds of dollars saving an old horse that has so many problems and will never be usable in any way when there are so many young horses needing rescue?
I understand that the old horses have put in their time but how about saving the younger horses so they can have the time in the first place?
A very good question, and one that MUST be taken into consideration. When I donate to rescues, I look at their facilities and how the horses are cared for. If you run a rescue and your income and other resources are limited, you MUST be prepared to make the difficult decisions, to put down those that really have no chance at any sort of rehabilitation or quality of life so you can devote your monies to caring for those that DO have a chance.
The no-kill policy is noble, but not very practical.
That said, I know I would have problems with making the tough decisions, which is why I do NOT want to run a rescue. I can’t even go to an auction because I’d want to bring them ALL home. Also not a very good decision. I prefer, instead, to support those rescues that CAN provide sanctuary to those that are unadobtable without compromsing the others.
I used to know a gal who had six or seven horses that had belonged to her father who died shortly after I moved to the area. She was making things work with “just enough feed” and the horses were in wooden pens (badly chewed upon). She had people willing to feed and water for her since she lived several miles from the property where the horses were kept and did not drive.
She complained about people who were turning her into the authorities for abusing the horses. The animals were all in good flesh, but she wasn’t able to afford regular hoofcare, dental care, or yearly worming and shots. I pointed out that THIS was neglect, and she got really angry. The horses were, in her words, “just fine.”
Eventually she had to come to grips with reality; a couple of the older horses died from age-related causes, another died of colic, and the remaining younger ones were “sold” (given away, more likely) to some of the people who had complained to authorities.
You’re right. Someone MUST be prepared to make the tough decisions. A lot of people in rescue have more heart than head (assuming they aren’t out-and-out crooks) and they don’t want anything to die “on their watch.”
I don’t mean to sound like I’m wagging my fingers here. As I said, I KNOW I cannot do what is required, so I’m supporting those who are doing good deeds and running purposeful rescues.
Jill’s answer to this is that she tries to come home from the auction with 80% adoptables. She loves the old ones, as I do, but she also understands the need to rescue horses that will adopt out, creating more space for new horses.
I personally am much more likely to (privately) rescue an old one, or donate to an old one, because my thought process is that they’ve EARNED good care. They’ve usually worked 20+ years for people and in my mind they DESERVE to be safe more than a 2 year old that hasn’t done anything. It’s like a moral fairness issue in my mind. But again, anything I do is private and small scale and I’m willing to keep the horse ‘ti the end of their life if there’s no home — that’s pretty much the commitment you make with the old ones. Is it fair to ask for money for them? Sure – from people who feel the same way you do and love the oldies.
I too think the old ones earned their retirement – but I understand the reasons people want to save younger horses. I think if there is an older horse (say, over 15 but under 25) that is really a quick turnaround (not too skinny, recently ridden, sound, etc.), SAVE THAT HORSE. There are plenty of people out there that just want a safe, sound, NICE horse for their kids to love and care for, and to ride occasionally. Plus, it would totally suck to see that horse go to slaughter.
I`m with tbdancer: “That said, I know I would have problems with making the tough decisions, which is why I do NOT want to run a rescue. I can’t even go to an auction because I’d want to bring them ALL home. Also not a very good decision“
Not a question for the rescuers, as I feel they would be 100% in agreement.
A question for the government, almost any government…..WHY do you not make it more difficult to get charity status?
Amen. Sorry, but after what I’ve seen out here, I support mandatory licensing and certification by the state (here it is by the state vets office) for rescues/sanctuaries/retirements that are claiming 501 C 3 status, or other charity status via the state, as well as for commercial dealers (which have to be licensed but aren’t necessarily routinely inspected).
It’s not that hard to get non profit status. You don’t even need to make a case that your non profit is needed by your community. I wish it was harder. In our community, I keep seeing new “rescues” pop up and guess who they call when they are out of food? They disappear and you never know where the horses ended up, they run off good volunteers due to their lack of organization. Sorry – pet peeve.
Oh Gawd, I’m so sorry for misreading your post. I’m an idiot and a snarky one at that. Mea culpa!
This is a wonderful question. I would imagine budget is a lot of it – vetting the charities in any effective way would mean more staff. So I am thinking you’d have to get your state legislator to craft a bill asking for a more extensive process to register as a charity on the state level, in order to cut down on scams and fraud. I am thinking it would be easier to do that than attack the problem on a national level. Focus on the HUMAN element – how many seniors, etc. are being scammed into poverty by these con artist faux rescues.
Then make a CHARGE to apply for the status in the first place!
Charge would cover all vetting.
If you do not have a few hundred to pay the fees you certainly are not going to make it through the first year!!!
Bit like buying a horse with no fall back Vet fee fund.
Do not do it!!
They could even cut a deal where, if you pass you get half the fee back??
Excellent idea Kirri!!!
Crying “short-staffed, no budget” is pretty short-sighted on the State’s part – the tax money they generate by making all the faux rescues pay taxes would more than cover it.
Yeah. I’d like to see the states (even counties) certify “charities” before they can get federal 501-c status. The department that covers the issues the charity deals with could “vet” them.
I’m looking for a reputable horse rescue in SE Michigan or North Ohio. Does anyone have any recommendations?
CANTER seems to be a pretty good organization, if you’re looking for an OTTB. They don’t so much rescue, as provide a good way for trainers to find homes for their horses who are done racing. They have listings in Michigan and Ohio, among other states. I’ve seen some really nice horses on their site. http://canterusa.org/
http://petfinder.com/ is also a great site for finding rescued animals and quality rescues.
I am from central Ohio- moved away in 2004. I am not aware of any rescues in the area but I can vouch for one which is North West of Chicago, IL- HARPS (Hooved Animal Rescue & Protection Society). If you were interested in sending an animal over & were approved to send it, I would help make arrangements with you to haul it here.
New Vocations is in Ohio – more of a retraining/rehoming service for OTTBs than a rescue-rescue, but they have a lot of really nice horses at reasonable prices, and are great to deal with. http://www.horseadoption.com
Thank you for attending this and keeping us posted. I think what you’re doing is VERY important. So, thanks!
I’ll be looking forward to learning more.
OT but how could give away a horse like this. worked hard her whole life
http://martinsburg.craigslist.org/grd/1724785060.html
Ah yes, the classic ‘Moving’ excuse.
Poor thing. I think it’s really sad when oldies are dumped like this.
I managed, not long ago, to convince my Dad and my step Mom that maybe selling my step brother’s 18 year old TWH wasn’t such a good idea. Sure, he’s sound and is great on the trails, but at 18? What could happen to him in a few years? Were they sure someone was going to take care of him? I diplomatically suggested they lease him, that way they can still keep an eye on him, but expenses are covered more or less by someone else. They found an older man who trail rides him, and the two old fogies apparently get on great. Whew!
When I was a teen, I had to find a home for my 11 year old QH mare that was having back problems, if I wanted to take in the TB cross my grandparents were going to give me (said TB cross being the result of their neighbor’s BYB; she asked to use my grandparent’s teaser stallion to breed her arab/hackney pony cross, and then didn’t know what to do with the baby, and so gave it to my grandparents…). I gave her to a family that just wanted for their daughter to be able to trail ride once in awhile. I suspect that the aunt mostly wanted to get her hands on a mare with good papers (but not at ALL breed stock quality) and to this day it haunts me to think where my sweet, sweet mare may have ended up. A hard lesson for a 15 year old, and I was definitely way too naive then to have written up any kind of contract (the verbal agreement was: you don’t want her anymore, she comes back to us) but I did learn my lesson.
I had to register just to say this. Broadway is my favourite rescue horse that I’ve seen in a long time. I love her movement, look and colour. Seems like it would not take long to get her going in some lower level dressage shows too – just throwing that out there.
It’s practically killing me, but I’m a young person with two horses of my own that I board out. I hope someone picks her up soon!
I have a question regarding the only 100,000 horses that are going to slaughter. Although it appears on the surface by the stats given, “there are 9.2 MILLION horses in the U.S. and every year, less than 100,000 go to slaughter,” how many more horses are starved, neglected, and/or abused? Doesn’t the rescue community’s scope cover the “other” horses needing homes too? That would certainly raise that 1% stat to a much higher one I believe. This isn’t just a slaughter issue, because a lot of horses never even get to an auction. Just a thought.
I think that is a terrific question.
Although the whole thing is a red herring. The existence of legalized slaughter is irrelevant to the problem of unwanted or neglected horses, IMO. You don’t start addressing the problem when the animal is neglected and unwanted; you promote practices that prevent them from getting in that position in the first place. “If all else fails, there’s slaughter” is a pretty stupid mantra, if you think about it. It presupposes a consistent “else,” when we don’t have a consistent “else,” yet.
It’s like saying to a man with a broken arm, “if all else fails, there’s the cemetery!” You’d rather hope the planning wouldn’t start with the burial plot.
I think the question that ALL rescuers ask themselves late at night when they replay the phone conversation in their minds from the “take my horse or else” people is “if you can’t save them all (and you can’t) whom and why do you save?”
The answer we came up with sounds trite, but it’s true – education. We pick the horses that we can use to educate the next generation that animal ownership is for LIFE and that taking on any animal into your family means that you have a responsibility to that being. So we have 14 horses, two goats, some cats and two retired foxhounds. Each day, those animals reach out to kids in the community to teach them about responsibility and second chances for animals that were “thrown away.” Maybe, just maybe, we can change the thinking of the next generation and then the problem will be, if not solved, then at least much more manageable.
So some of them are old and lame, some are young and adoptable, most are in-between. We don’t actively solicit for adoptions, we use the horses in our program to teach important lessons and we hope to find sponsors for them. Then we hope those families that sponsor will go on to be responsible horse owners, or owners of any pet.
We get flack for not “leasing” or adopting out more horses. But each day, our rescues change lives and each day they are guaranteed the care that they need. It’s the only way I can answer the question of who and why do we save a particular horse.
I’ll step off the soap box now.
I would very much like to make a “template” film at this years Trainers Challenge to be able to distribute to anyone that would like to put on an event of their own.This could also be done with the Castration Clinics,etc. Any intrest in this? I am currently trying to find a producer/director type volunteer within MHARF with mixed results.We have 16 horses in this years Challenge,including Rioja from the 3 Strikes Ranch and I feel that the “bugs” are worked out enough to show off this endeavor to others who could possibly benefit.Could “template” or “how to” DVDs be a useful tool to spread the word about useful,successful ideas? Thanks,wish I could be there.
Definitely – in fact, just put your video on the web and I’ll link it here. That’s probably the easiest way to spread the information and make it easily accessible. Everybody has Internet!
One of my new favorite rescues – I really loved every single thing this lady had to say today about how to do seizures correctly, ensure you can get a prosecution, and how to pack that weight back on the horses quickly and safely.
http://www.hpaf.org/
How does a rescue find out the certification requirements? There can be a good rescue struggling to become a great one which would benefit from a list of criteria and suggestions on how to get there.
Scroll down and click on “Equine Care” for a PDF.
http://www.sanctuaryfederation.org/gfas/for-sanctuaries/standards/
I know this is a bit OT, but it goes to responsible pet ownership. In Ontario, where I live, our OSPCA is putting 350 shelter pets to sleep. Why? Ringworm. A fungus, curable with medicated cream. I am so outraged by this! I hope equine rescues don’t take this attitude to their horses: Not sure how to link to the article, but it’s at http://www.thestar.ca for anyone who wants to read about this.
That happens here too. I see shelters put cats to sleep for having an upper respiratory – something I can fix in 2 weeks easily with Clavamox, a cheap antibiotic. Heck, I can get it from Mexico for darn near nothing. Honestly, it is a convenient excuse to “reduce inventory.”
I heard that on the radio this morning too…. ridiculous! They spin it as contagious to animals and humans…. but they don’t mention that it’s just a fungus and unless you have farm experience of some sort you likely don’t know what ring worm is.
I agree – must be just a way to reduce without public outcry. At 350 animals it must be a no kill shelter, and likely with mostly unadoptable animals (the TO Humane Society had 100’s of cats all with some issue or another – $ meds required – pees on carpets etc…) and while I can see the thinking with keeping old broken down horses (we have a couple too) at least they get to live like horses – I really do not agree with animals being kept for years in a shelter environment. So while I think it is sad – but I’m also not signing up for care for 350 animals – at least they will meet a humane end.
Ringworm IS contagious to humans. (So, incidentally, is thrush, as I found out to my cost after handling a straight-from-the-livestock horse in my early teens…god, that stuff is hard to get rid of if you get it!). However, it’s not particularly serious and simply wearing gloves when handling animals that might have it or are in quarantine is sufficient to keep from getting it. I would think that shelter workers SHOULD be wearing disposable gloves when examining and handling neglected new arrivals, surely.
Its certainly not a reason to put an animal to sleep.
Ringworm isn’t that bad. I got it from working as a vet tech on my arm. I just used bleach every morning and night to wash it off. Within 4 days it was gone. One of the other techs had it a little worse – she had it on her hand and it wasn’t showing yet… so she went to the bathroom and ended up spreading it to bits you don’t want to put bleach. It’s easy to treat, and isn’t that big of a deal.
Oh, Cathy, you make it sound so easy. I, too, have rescued a cat with an upper respiratory infection. There was more to it than just popping a pill down him every few hours – like getting him to eat, keeping him clean, and isolating him from my healthy cat. Cats also die very easily from URIs, and need nursing care that gives them a reason to live, like lots of petting. Multiply that by 300, and it is a very labor-intensive problem.
Ringworm, though easier to treat than an URI, is very contagious. In its early stages, it’s just an itch. You won’t see it until the lesion is large enough to create a visible bald spot. By then, it has been spread to another animal. That is probably why the shelter has 300 cats with it. The only way to keep it from spreading is to use sterile technique with every single animal in the shelter. Imagine what that would cost!
I don’t know if there has been an oral or injectable medicine developed for ringworm. If there is, and I won the Powerball, I’d buy a bunch and send it there. Poor kitties, ::: snif :::
Ruthie
Well, it depends on how bad the URI is – not all of them stop eating. Your description is correct for severe URI’s, and fluids may be needed as well. Still, I can manage a cat with a SEVERE URI in 15 minutes morning and night…before and after the regular job I have to go to. So I tend to think that shelter employees who are doing this as their job can probably cram a little force-feeding into the routine as well.
I actually think 300 with it is an exaggeration. It’s like strangles. The debilitated get it – not 100% of the healthy animals, no matter how much exposure.
Interesting case – I’ll have to read more and see what happens.
Public shelters which are run by the city or county have to take in every animal brought in. We can not tell the public”no” when they bring in animals. The result of this is that the shelter can become overpopulated and this can result in cruel conditions for the animals housed there. Sadly animals are euthanized everyday. Even with our best efforts at fostering, humane rescue and networking via facebook and twitter we still get in too many animals.
It’s a convenient excuse to “reduce inventory” statement just pisses me off.
Do you think we like to euthanize animals that can be treated?? When your agency is mandated to take in everyones throw away pets we are forced to make the call. And many of us cry every… single…. day.
Yet we still work at the public shelters because we feel we are there to make a difference. In the 20 yrs of working for the public shelter I have seen vast improvements. Every step foward no matter how small, is a step in the right direction. I stay because I see hope for the animals, and as an ACO sometimes I am the voice for those animals as well.
As an example of how things have changed. If this happened 20 yrs ago these ponies would have been surrendered by the owner to the shelter and the shelter would have euthanized all of them. End of story. Now because of the way the shelter system has changed and due to very dedicated employees and fabulous rescues we were able to get these ponies to a place where they can be treated, rehabbed and adopted. And file on the former owner. By they way if you can donate to their treatment please help.
http://keeblerelfrescue.blogspot.com (Thanks Falconridge)
End of rant.
That is awful, but I suppose I can understand. I volunteered at a shelter that had an outbreak of ringworm and upper respiratory. It was awful and it spread to 30 cats, it took me two hours to make sure each was properly medicated and bathed (and yeah… bathing cats…). The vet school sent down volunteers for three months before it was under control… I guess I could understand if the shelter were incredibly short staffed because it was not an easy thing for them to take care of 30, much less 300.
I just wanted to say that I read a really good article a while back written by an anti-slaughter person about the pro-slaughter people. It was probably posted on your site I don’t remember
But the writer made a great point, These pro-slaughter groups aren’t just looking for a convenient way to dispose of horses, it’s more like SLAUGHTER AT ALL COSTS.
I think they started out looking for disposal, but at this point I think they have lost all sight of any possible legit reason for killing 100,000 horses. I think they just want to ‘win’ the argument at the cost of innocent horsey lives!! It’s really frustrating when they talk in circles and want to blame the anti-slaughter movement for neglect\abuse cases when the people who neglect\abuse are the people who don’t care about the horses!!
I guess a good question would be ‘when you hear pro-slaughter people talking about what a great thing murdering innocent horses is, how do you keep from hitting them with your truck?’
JUST KIDDING (kinda)
But seriously, This is kind of a weird question but in yall’s experience is it easier to adopt out a young untrained horse or an companion animal? I would go for the old or crippled up companion animal personally!!
Heres an example of some pro-slaughter logic:
If we can’t dispose of abused, starving, neglected, unwanted horses, then we’ll start breeding them just for slaughter! And blame it on the anti-slaughter folks for making the EU aware of the toxins in the meat…. that’ll show’em!
(they are referring to the new rules for Canada)
“RH2 said…
Good information. I was reading up on it as well. There’s been some discussion as we had talked about previously about a new market opening up for the singular purpose of producing clean horses to meet these regulations. We had discussed a few months ago, I believe, that some were already pulling horses and beginning the process. I’m afraid this will be another one that comes back to haunt the Anti side. I’m afraid there will just be another market opening up, and this one will be directly intent on horses for Slaughter. Some have even talked about some of the PMU frams opening back up for this purose. I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out. Final thought. Is it just a coincidence that the new regulations don’t go into effect for six months?
January 31, 2010 8:52 PM
m thompson said…
I believe the demand side of the equation will take over. Many of drugs have not been approved for use in horses simply because there has been no financial incentive for the companies producing them to do so. I think there will be a future scramble to do this in the 6 month transitional period the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is writing about. There is no mention of how this will be handled after that.
Looks like good work on the part of the anti-slaughter promotions. We will raise horses for slaughter and still have to figure out what to do with the dinks. That will allow all the rescues to stay in business though so I guess it’s all good.
I have been pulling some articles written by the Canadian Horse Welfare groups. They are extremely worried about the same thing happening there as here. The U.S. is being held up as an example of how not handle your horse industry.
February 1, 2010 7:38 AM “
Some more pro-slaughter logic:
“Buddy Smith: There is no such thing as over-breeding with a strong slaughter market.”
Sorry to say Buddy but you can over-breed for a slaughter market. Just ask the Canadian pork and beef industries how over producing is affecting them. Ever hear of supply and demand?
My question is what is being discussed regarding the the impacts of the EU’s upcoming horsemeat regulations. Obviously, QT and/or a tracking system for individual horses will take the profit out of our current slaughter “system.” Regardless of whether the horses are slaughtered in the US, CA or MX, the EU isn’t going to take our tainted horsemeat. If horse slaughter is necessary to deal with our excess horses (as pro-slaughter proponents claim) how will the additional expense of QT/tracking be subsidized?
So when there isn’t an easy (and profitable) way to make our excess horses disappear, will the pro-slaughter people finally wake up and realize we have to take responsibility of these horses ourselves? That humane euthanasia (and reducing breeding) is the only viable solution?
Also, how accurate is the 100,000 number? I was looking on the foreign agrigultural service website (http://www.fas.usda.gov/gats/default.aspx), and it shows in 400,000 non-breeding horses, asses, etc. (67k breeding)were exported from the US in 2009. Anyone know what those #s mean?
beckyb “Regardless of whether the horses are slaughtered in the US, CA or MX, the EU isn’t going to take our tainted horsemeat. If horse slaughter is necessary to deal with our excess horses (as pro-slaughter proponents claim) how will the additional expense of QT/tracking be subsidized?
So when there isn’t an easy (and profitable) way to make our excess horses disappear, will the pro-slaughter people finally wake up and realize we have to take responsibility of these horses ourselves? That humane euthanasia (and reducing breeding) is the only viable solution?“
Well Beckyb… Regarding the first paragraph, this is my thought: I think the fact that the horse meat regulations are going to be much tougher, the price of horse meat will increase exponentially, and it will be considered even more of a “delicacy“. Unfortunately, it`s supply and demand. If it`s considered more of a delicacy, people will want more of it, at increased prices. So there will definitely, IMHO, be still a market for it.
I also think there will be a group of so-called “certified“ kill buyers, who have honest and discerning buying processes. There will also be an underground or black market for the meat that isn`t certified and papered. I`m sure there will be that group of people out there for the underground market that figure “well, we ate it before so why not continue“ – even though they will now be assured of getting the worst-of-the-worst horse meat.
Yes, the cost of doing business in the horse meat industry will increase, so the price will increase to cover it.
And the second paragraph: My husband and I had a long discussion about horse meat, and my main response to him was that horses are not raised as meat animals in this country. I certainly hope north America does NOT set up horse-meat farms. But if they did, I would hope the slaughtering of the horses either (a) occurred there on-site or (b) now a proper system could be set up so the horses weren`t travelling thousands of miles in improper trailers, and being slaughtered in cattle slaughter facilities.
Ultimately, my hope is that BYBers get a brain and stop breeding, and people take care of their horses for life. Unfortunately, I think this will never happen. Has it happened with dogs and cats, or any other animal… no. Shit, we can`t get people to treat other PEOPLE humanely!!!
Regarding food safety and horse meat. It’s surprising to me that I’ve never seen beef brought up in these discussions, since one important reason horse meat is becoming more popular overseas is that people are afraid of Mad Cow, and they’re using horse meat as a substitute for beef. (Which is loony, since the horse meat comes from who knows where with who knows what in it, but people aren’t known for using their brains.) Fix the beef industry to the point where foreigners trust American beef again, and you’re going to save quite a few horses.
As far as I know there really isn’t an issue with Mad Cow disease (BSE) in American beef. There were a handful of cases found in animals sent to slaughter in the US, but these animals were found to be shipped in from Canada. I do think we could use some reform in how we raise livestock in this country, but these changes would be unlikely to affect BSE. Truthfully even if an animal has BSE it doesn’t transmit very well to people. First of all the prions are only in central nervous system tissue, so steaks and roasts are prion free and secondly the majority of the human species seems to be immune to BSE probably due to us being cannibals at some point in our evolutionary past. The suspicion placed on American beef based on BSE is way more based on media frenzy than actual risk. Although if you are one of those rare people who get BSE obviously the outcome sucks…
I know there hasn’t been a BSE outbreak as such in the US, but I have to say I wouldn’t touch American ground beef just because of the appalling hygiene in the slaughterhouses and packing plants and I know many other people who wouldn’t either. If BSE/scrapy did get into the food chain, which wouldn’t surprise me, current practices would allow it to contaminate the meat. The UK and European meat industries are still pretty bad, but BSE and foot and mouth at least meant things had to improve some as we couldn’t ignore it any more.
Of course, my friends and I don’t replace beef with horse meat! (and not just because horses are slaughtered in the same conditions anyway)…!
Thats not exactly true on this side of the pond. Beef is raised differently here , no antibiotics, sterroids, grain, just good old hay, maybe a little corn. Its illegal here to slaughter any animal for human consumption with injected chemicals in it here in Switzerland. You got a goat with a broken leg, and you intend on giving it to the butcher the very next morning …well that little guy has to suck it up without a pain killer or antibiotic until the butcher comes by to get it. So it is positivly not allowed to slaughter animals with medicine in it .
Horsemeat is popular here because it is lean, and thought to be healthy.. but as more people start treating their horses more like children and less like livestock the horsemeat becomes less popular, this is definatly happening here , just not fast enough.
On rescues , we have a different problem here . Example… I am trying to rescue a horse right now from a woman that I have met here. I contacted my vet about the state of her horse, he gave me a number of a rescue. The rescue says nothing can be done for this horse unless the woman surrenders it, or unless the horse is so bad that a vet from the state needs to come in and euthanize it, either way the horse will die, either in her care or when the state vet comes. This woman doesnt see that there is a problem with her horse ( she, like so many people neglecting horses is not thinking clearly ) I dont even care if she is prosicuted , fined , or called a bad name…I just want to get those horses out of her care… how screwed up is this situation? At least in the US there is an SPCA or Animal Control to help get horses out of bad situations.
The thing about horse meat being a delicacy… I keep seeing this, and it’s getting under my skin enough that I’d finally like to at least partially debunk this ill founded myth.
I’ve lived in France for the past 7 and a half years. I’ve tasted escargot (delicious), frog legs (taste much like chicken, but much more effort to get that little bit of meat off the bones), and, yes, I even tasted horse meat once (take me out back and shoot me if you must; I’ll let a hindu shoot you for eating beef, ‘kay?)
Amazingly, even in the best of the best of French restaurants, you rarely see these dishes. Horse meat on a restaurant menu? Not on your life. The truth is, horse meat, if it sells, only sells because, pound for pound, horse meat is a healthier, cheapier alternative to beef.
Now, I know what you’re all thinking. OHMYGOD OHMYGOD OYMYGOD the French slaughter and EAT their old riding horses! This is false. Actually, here in France, there are still farms that breed draft horses as livestock, to send slaughter and sell as meat. Do old riding horses, OTTB and trotters, go to the slaughter horse? Absolutely. Do French people try to do something about it? Absolutely. I myself have 2 almost went to slaughter horses, and I volunteer for an association that does its best to find good homes for horses before they get sent to slaughter.
Is horse meat a delicacy, even in weirdo France? Nope. If the US stops sending horse meat to the EU, will prices go up? Probably not. If prices do go up, will horse meat become some luxury item that now every Parisian just HAS to serve on his/her dinner table when they have guests? Absolutely not. In fact, the truth is, horse meat would probably disappear from super markets, and “boucherie chevaline” (horse butchers) would slowly disappear… Oh, wait, that’s exactly what’s already happening!
So my big question would be, where is the end point for the horses that are slaughtered? Who is ultimately using horse meat, and for what purpose? And for those of you who have dogs and cats… are you sure you know what your pets are eating? Because I know the sanitation requirements for human-consumption bound horse meat are very strict. All those off the trackers and ex-show jumpers and lesson horses, chock full of bute and who knows what else? Yeah, that is not where the horse meat I cringe to see on the other end of the shelf when I buy chicken breast comes from. Where’s all that going?
LayTai, thanks for “debunking” an “ill-founded myth”. Not.
Seven and a half years does not equate much of a history regarding horse meat.
Historically, horses have been eaten as meat only in times of siege (war) or starvation. Look up the facts.
“The truth is, horse meat, if it sells, only sells because, pound for pound, horse meat is a healthier, cheapier alternative to beef.”
If it’s such a “healthy, cheap alternative to beef” why is it NOT more readily acceptable? I also think some people thing the same of dog meat! But we don’t eat THAT.
“I’ll let a hindu shoot you for eating beef.”
I think, in MY OPINION, that if there was a group of Hindu’s or, worse yet people who immigrated to India, rounding up cattle, slaughtering them inhumanely, and sending them overseas for human consumption, the native Hindus would scream bloody murder. So that is a really piss-poor comment to say the least.
I know there are places where draft horses are raised and sold for meat in the UK, and as I said (regarding the possibility of this sort of set-up in North America), if this actually indicates that the horses are slaughtered humanely, in a fashion that does not resemble cattle slaughter (as they are completely different animals), then I am almost ok with it. (The reason for “almost ok with it” is because I still, bottom line, personally view horses as “pets” or even “working animals” = not raised for human consumption.)
“Is horse meat a delicacy, even in weirdo France? Nope.”
No, I agree (except for the “weirdo France” generalization), but it is still eaten in places like Germany, Italy, and a few others – especially Asian countries (again, all started during times of war/starvation). I mean, come on, there was a planeload of soccer players stranded in the Alps who resorted to eating each other to survive – does that mean those survivors should continue to eat human flesh?
(Sorry for the terrible visual.)
The reason I use “delicacy” as a way to describe horse meat is simple… in North America (including Canada – where I am from), eating horse meat is not acceptable. A couple of the definitions of the word delicacy:
1) something delightful or pleasing, esp. a choice food considered with regard to its rarity, costliness, or the like (my bold)
2) obsolete, sensuous indulgence; luxury (again, my bold)
There are restaurants in Canada and the US that have been shut down for serving horse meat! I’ve heard of one restaurant (high-end) in particular where if someone ordered horse meat, the chef went out back to the alley and bought some out of the trunk of some guys car! I use this story as an example for how North Americans feel about serving / eating horse meat. It is not available for a reason.
As for the question if there is horse meat in dog food… well, it’s not in MY dog food. If you buy decent dog food, and read the label, you will note there is no horse meat. Just don’t buy dog food with “meat by-products” in it. It’s as simple as that.
And really, the bottom line for me here, is this example: there are certain countries that go around and collect all the feral dogs and cats off the streets of the city, then take them in bamboo crates stacked to the roof of an enclosed truck, then dump the animals in huge vats of chemicals two or three times (one is a chemical to “loosen” the fur and skin, the next is a rinse, and the third is the final rinse)… all while the animal (dog or cat) is ALIVE, and then process for meat. And their response when questioned? Westerners are the hypocrites, going to the grocery store for packaged meat when the slaughter of our consumption animals is no better. “What is the difference between the cow or pig, and the dog or cat?” was his question. And he’s right… to a degree.
In my humble opinion, I will restate, dogs, cats, horses (among others) are pets. And if you want to use the argument of “horses are working animals”, well, there are dogs that work (police department, cadaver searches, etc., and those animals are treated as humans, given the same legal rights to not be assaulted, etc. as their human counterparts). Plus, we don’t eat dogs and cats.
Next time, do your homework before attacking.
End rant.
Horsemeat sells in switzerland for 32.CHF per kg… so it is cheaper then beef, (this is American Horsemeat), it is still in markets here, but the shelf is getting smaller. Its eaten in Switzerland…but usually NOT in a restraunt…however as you get closer to the Italian border you will find horse and donkey meat sold in restraunts and as sausage. I think the only way to stop people from eating horsemeat is to show them that these horses are “pets” like our dogs and cats. It is happening here, the mentality is changing. I believe horsemeat here is ,or was mostly farm grown, but i certainly dont see or hear of horsefarms for slaughter anymore in Switzerland…maybe thats why we are importing it from Texas . Just a question… what do they do with the bulls that they used for professional bull riding? are they slaughtered too ? those bulls make a lot of monrey for their owners and riders.
“Seven and a half years does not equate much of a history regarding horse meat.” Oh, alright, sorry. I’ll come back in another 50 years when I’m as wrinkled and closed minded as you are to let you know how things go, then. I’ve been living here for 7 and a half years; that certainly does not mean that I’m only educated on what has happened regarding the equine horse meat market over that time.
“Historically, horses have been eaten as meat only in times of siege (war) or starvation. Look up the facts.” Actually, France is kind of a strange country as far as this is concerned. The fact is that it has almost always been accepted in France. During the really tough times, the French resorted to eating dogs and cats, too. And, I don’t know if you’re aware, but a famous French draft horse breed, the Percheron, almost went extinct until it was decided that Percherons would be bred for meat. Today, you can still find two types of Percheron; the more athletic ones, that descend from knights’ riding horses, and the much more stockier work/meat horses (I don’t like to talk about them that way, either, but that’s the way this information is presented at the Percheron museum, in the town of Perche).
““The truth is, horse meat, if it sells, only sells because, pound for pound, horse meat is a healthier, cheapier alternative to beef.â€
If it’s such a “healthy, cheap alternative to beef†why is it NOT more readily acceptable? I also think some people thing the same of dog meat! But we don’t eat THAT.” Well, I think the answer is simple: it’s cultural. In some countries, eating certain animals is just not acceptable, and for different reasons. The beauty of diversity is that we can accept eachother’s differences. I certainly would never tell a Hindu that he or she is wrong not to eat beef, or go to China and tell them not to eat dog. Just as I would be very upset if someone told me what I should or shouldn’t eat, within the limits of the laws in the country where I live.
Doctors here, atleast those not opposed to eating horse meat, sometimes suggest to patients with problems with cholesterol to try eating horse meat in the place of beef. Supposedly (I haven’t actually done any kind of scientific testing to prove or disprove this, although I have read this before, as well) horse meat is a leaner, healthier meat. Personnally, I prefer just to eat much, much less meat, not being in favor of eating horse myself.
““I’ll let a hindu shoot you for eating beef.â€
I think, in MY OPINION, that if there was a group of Hindu’s or, worse yet people who immigrated to India, rounding up cattle, slaughtering them inhumanely, and sending them overseas for human consumption, the native Hindus would scream bloody murder. So that is a really piss-poor comment to say the least.”
Alright, you win, you’ve got me on this one. I had absofuckinglutely no idea that Europeans were immigrating to the US just to slaughter all of the horses. If that’s the case, then crap, US immigrations has gone really, really slack.
You know, I’m not at all for eating horse meat. Like I said above, I have two that I bought in the knick of time to save them from being hauled to the butcher’s (one would have made the long trip to Italy, poor little thing.) My two mares are the best looking horses at the barn because I am practically their slave; they lack for nothing, are happy, and will never, ever end up on someone’s plate (or in my doggy’s food dish…)
That said, I’m not sure North Americans really have a say in what Europeans do or don’t eat. I guess my feeling is that if you eat any meat, you don’t really have the right to tell someone else what meat they can or can’t eat (and don’t go off on some cannibalistic tangent… that’s just ridiculous.) Horses, for me, certainly are pets. Hell, my animals are my children, since I don’t have any two legged rugrats yet. But that doesn’t give me some kind of God-given right to decide what a pet is for everyone else. What if I said that I sleep with my pet rooster every night? Would you stop eating chicken? Remember, I’m not for eating horse, but as a non-vegetarian, do I have the right make such a decision for people from other countries? Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t feel Godly enough to take on that role.
Thank you for starting your response with a personal insult (implying I am wrinkled and closed-minded). That’s a very intelligent way to respond.
1) The historical fact of horse meat consumption has started in times of war/famine. That it continues was not something I denied. Hence the soccer players analogy. Just because people resort to something in extreme situations, does not mean it should continue. Your example of people eating dogs and cats proves my point. They do not still eat dogs and cats!
2) Regarding horse meat being lean, and your response “Well, I think the answer is simple: it’s cultural.” Again, you are in agreement. That is what I said. WE don’t eat horse meat in North America, so why should we be slaughtering it and sending it overseas for consumption? I did not tell anyone what/what not to eat. I did, however, express MY personal opinion that horses are pets, like dogs and cats, and I didn’t agree with eating them.
PROOF (my comment): “I know there are places where draft horses are raised and sold for meat in the UK, and as I said (regarding the possibility of this sort of set-up in North America), if this actually indicates that the horses are slaughtered humanely, in a fashion that does not resemble cattle slaughter (as they are completely different animals), then I am almost ok with it. (The reason for “almost ok with it†is because I still, bottom line, personally view horses as “pets†or even “working animals†= not raised for human consumption.)”
3) “Alright, you win, you’ve got me on this one. I had absofuckinglutely no idea that Europeans were immigrating to the US just to slaughter all of the horses. If that’s the case, then crap, US immigrations has gone really, really slack.”
Come on, where did I say Europeans were doing this? What I was actually referring to is the case of immigrants (mostly Mexican) to the US, who are making a lot of money slaughtering horses. Get a grip and stop being so defensive (and please, if I’m not swearing at you, I’d appreciate the same in return). But the bottom line, is Hindus would be screaming bloody murder if people were slaughtering their cows and sending them to another country for human consumption. But no, don’t actually discuss the intent of what I’m saying – just go off on a tangent.
4) “That said, I’m not sure North Americans really have a say in what Europeans do or don’t eat. I guess my feeling is that if you eat any meat, you don’t really have the right to tell someone else what meat they can or can’t eat (and don’t go off on some cannibalistic tangent… that’s just ridiculous.)”
Again, I didn’t say what they could or couldn’t eat (see “proof” under #2), I said WE (North America) shouldn’t be shipping horse meat over there, when WE don’t eat it here! Read what I wrote please, before attacking me! As for the “cannibalistic tangent” – I’ll again refer you to #1.
5) ” What if I said that I sleep with my pet rooster every night? Would you stop eating chicken? Remember, I’m not for eating horse, but as a non-vegetarian, do I have the right make such a decision for people from other countries? Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t feel Godly enough to take on that role.”
Again, see #4. This just proves to me that you can’t have an intelligent, fact-based, unemotional conversation about this. The only emotion I display, I preface with “in my opinion” or it’s my “personal opinion”. And even then I keep it clean and straightforward. Again, here is the PROOF of what I said:
““What is the difference between the cow or pig, and the dog or cat?†was his question. And he’s right… to a degree.
In my humble opinion, I will restate, dogs, cats, horses (among others) are pets. And if you want to use the argument of “horses are working animalsâ€, well, there are dogs that work (police department, cadaver searches, etc., and those animals are treated as humans, given the same legal rights to not be assaulted, etc. as their human counterparts). Plus, we don’t eat dogs and cats.” – Sorry, I guess I forgot to note, AGAIN, that I meant IN NORTH AMERICA. I thought that was implied by the “WE don’t eat dogs and cats”.
And PS: I never attacked France in particular. You spoke from a France perspective, and I responded to that. Please see Chris S well written / researched comments below – and also note France is still the largest importer of our slaughtered friends.
Chris S, I didn’t know there were horse meat farms in Canada, but I will be doing some research shortly on THAT, trust me!!
I just HAD to add this:
Your comment: “Remember, I’m not for eating horse, but as a non-vegetarian, do I have the right make such a decision for people from other countries? Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t feel Godly enough to take on that role.”
That’s a pretty simple statement considering what Europe is doing to Canada over the seal hunt!?! OMG, don’t get me started!
PS: I hate the seal hunt!! But you’re saying I’m telling “other countries” what to eat – which I’m actually not (I’ve already proven this – I’m saying we don’t eat horse meat in North America so we shouldn’t be slaughtering and exporting horse meat) – and that you – so holier-than-thou – would never tell another country what to eat…when in actuality YOU ARE.
krissy3
Coming from Calgary, I guess I can honestly say I’ve been to the rodeo once… in the 15 years that I lived there. I’ve never been one to watch the chucks (chuck wagon races), broncs or bull riding. When I was a kid, I watched a horse have to be put down in the ring during a rodeo, and never forgot it. So as an adult, I went to the Calgary Stampede often, but never attended the “livestock” events. I had too much fun on the midway (including the bars) and shopping.
Unfortunately there is rampant and widespread abuse of animals on the rodeo circuit. As in racing, it seems the better-quality/higher-stakes the venue/event, the less overt abuse there is. As well, just as in any other sport where “livestock” is used, a large majority end up at slaughter after their usefulness has passed.
I would guess that the number of livestock (including horses, bulls, steer, etc.) going to slaughter from rodeo doesn’t equal the sheer volume of racehorses that end up at slaughter. That is my guess, however I do not have statistics to back me up on that (and anyone can feel free to provide those either way). The reason I guess this, is because I don’t think there are nearly as many rodeos out there, as there are race tracks (although the tracks are closing all over so my thinking may not be current). And again, my experience comes from living in Canada, I’m not positive what the rodeo situation is in the States.
There is an interesting article here (http://www.sharkonline.org/abuseinherent.mv) if you’d like to read a bit more about rodeo and the abuse, slaughter, etc. issues. It is from an American perspective, but seems to gel with what I know from Canada.
LayTai,
The thing is, France isn’t the only market. I think the “our horses are being sent to the FRENCH!!!” thing is overplayed here simply because it’s popular to hate on the French. The “delicacy” bit also appeals to our sense of anti-rich-people that is common in America. As much as people like to say “pro slaughter” people use propaganda, the anti side uses plenty as well. The entire “stop our horses from being a french delicacy!!!!” plays to several common American prejudices at the same time.
I think most North American horse meat is exported to Belgium, as that’s who owns the North American slaughterhouses.
There’s also the Japan market, but that’s much more specialized and much smaller.
Italy probably produces most of theirs locally.
Actually, Italy imports a lot from surrounding countries. France is a big time supplier, and that’s why rescues like the one I volunteer for have so much work on our hands to try to find homes for horses, ponies, donkeys and mules before they end up shipped off. And if French horses are shipped to Italy, it’s because there are fewer and fewer people who eat horse meat here in France, and what is eaten comes from draft horse breeders/butchers. I know that horses transit from Spain to Italy, as well, and sometimes rescues are able to intercept and place horses.
Here are some stats on where the horsemeat from Canada is going:
The largest importers of Canadian horsemeat in 2009 were:
- France $27.8 million (similar to 2008)
- Switzerland $22.4 million (down $3 million from 2008)
- Japan $18.5 million (similar to 2008)
- Belgium $10.8 million (down over 50% from approximately $15 million in 2008)
http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/pdf/finaldisc100314.pdf
There are horsemeat farms in Canada and they ship live horses to Japan where they are slaughtered, then the meat is eaten raw. It is estimated that each horse is worth $20,000 by the time it hits the Japanese dinner plate. It is definitely a delicacy there. The rest of the countries apparently take our medicated discards and the meat is shipped frozen.
http://albertaequestrian.com/images/stories/files/horse_health_welfare/2008_Horse_Welfare_Report.pdf
And horses continue to be shipped in double deckers, and the CFIA does nothing.
http://www.trucknews.com/issues/story.aspx?aid=1000368033&type=Print%20Archives
BECKYB, that is a really good question…. I really think it could be good news or bad news for our horses. I’m afraid that it could be the start of meat horse farms. Hopefully not!!
But there is no way the KB’s are going to follow any sort of regulations, and they will either lie about the origins and forge papers or whatever is required. But hopefully this will be good for american horses, and we will see a huge reduction in slaughtered horses.
Maybe when people realize that they can’t easily, or without prosecution throw the horses away, they will quit breeding everything in sight!!
I’m waiting to see what happens when those new rules go into effect. Should be interesting. One result is that KBs could be sued by the outfits that buy from them, if the meat turns out to be “tainted.” There’s nothing like the threat of a lawsuit to make someone clean up their act; and an actual lawsuit could put them out of business.
As I’ve said before, I’m neither pro nor anti. I don’t care if someone wants to eat horsemeat. I wouldn’t eat it, not would I sell a horse for slaughter, but others don’t feel that way. My problem with slaughter is how inhumane it is. If a humane method of slaughtering horses was developed, I’d be OK with it. And my standards are so high that the costs would probably be prohibitive. So, until that improbable day comes, ban it.
BeckyB, I think the answer to your question is that 67,000 horses were exported as either broodmares or breeding stallions, and 400,000 were exported for other reasons. It doesn’t mean that 400,000 horses were slaughtered. Many would be performance horses of some kind. Since there’s no law against exporting horses for slaughter, there’s no need to lie on the customs forms. Some folks will anyway, but it probably involves declaring that a $500,000 performance horse is bound for slaughter, so they’d only be paying duty on $50 instead of $500,000!
Of course, when the EU rules go into effect, things will change. I hope it’s for the better!
Ruthie
Of course, once you’ve actually paid for transportation, why on earth would someone throw money away just to send the horse to slaughter? I’m guessing the vast majority of these cases have to do with international sales, whether that be racehorses, quarter horses (which are gaining in popularity as western style riding becomes better known in Europe, for example) or other sport horses (how many show jumping horses change countries every year?). The slaughter house, here in Europe, will pay about 500 euros, so around 700 dollars, for an average sized thoroughbred. I don’t know of any shipping method that would make it worth someone’s time and money to ship to Europe and then send to slaughter…
I was told by a dealer ( that I trust to tell the truth – as crazy as that sounds
) that plane loads of yearlings are send over seas (I think it was to Japan – but I could be mistaken) to be raised for slaughter. Appearently there are planes that are set up as cargo planes (must be somewhat insulated/pressurized) that they run a pile on animals into for shipping. So there are horses being exported for slaughter – though I have no ideas on numbers.
mbra, that is correct, but it is for a very specific high end market. They have strict feeding/slaughtering guidelines on those horses so import them live from specialized farms (you will not find a used up racehorse on those planes – they are typicall young draft types, fed a certain diet from weaning on and shipped over before they are full grown). The meat commands very high prices, making it worthwhile. One article I read indicated that when all is said and done, those horses are worth something like $20,000 apiece (for the final “product” – I am sure the people raising them aren’t getting near that).
There’s also a low end market in Japan but that is likely mostly produced locally.
Oops! I just posted the same info above your post. Sorry!
So how was the 100,000 estimate (US horses exported for slaughter) derived from the 400,000 exported horse total?
There may be some clues in the breakdown by importing country. For example, nearly 32k horses were exported to Mexico in 2009. Were these mostly slaughter-bound or riding horses? The biggest export is to the UK (over 100k in 2009) – does anyone know if they slaughter horses for meat in the UK or are these mostly riding horses? The other big importers in 2009 were Ireland (44k), Canada (42k), UAE (41k), NZ (29k), Japan (23k) and France (14k).
Interestingly, so far this year there have been only 91 horses exported to Belgium (aren’t they reputed to be big horse meat importers?). Maybe they all go through Canada?
It’s disturbing to note that the almost 60% more horses were exported from the US in the first qtr of 2010 compared to the first qtr 2009 (78k in 2010, 50k in 2009).
If you’re trying to determine the flow of horse meat looking at number of actual horses imported/exported wont give you a good estimate. Those agricultural numbers are of live horses and no one would ship a live horse across the Atlantic for slaughter it’s just not economically practical (have you ever looked at the prices on importing horses?) I’m sure our horse meat ends up over seas and in Belgium, but it leaves North America cut up and neatly vacuum packed, not as a whole horse that would be counted by agricultural service. Only numbers of horses being shipped to Canada and Mexico would be relevant in trying to count number of horses going to slaughter.
I agree with you and know that a lot of our very expensive, very well bred horses are getting sold to all of these countries to use for show, and breeding. My question is this, what will happen to them when they are no longer useful? I cringe every time I open up my horse journals and see how many foals and stallions are sold overseas and see how hard these organizations are working to expand their membership all over the world. this maybe good for that particular segment of the industry but is this the best for our horses?
Yeah, shipping across the oceans is expensive if you are talking about private compartments, shipping boots, feed, water, etc.
Live cows, sheep, etc. are shipped all over the planet in cargo ships (often more economical than refridgerated meat), why not horses?
I remember hearing about horses being Fed Exed out of the country for slaughter but I still don’t know if that was just internet rumor.
I read somewhere (but don’t know if it’s true), that it is illegal to slaughter a horse in Belgium. That’s why they set up horse slaughtering plants overseas and import the meat.
My question of a rescue would be: What would happen to your horses if the main person/people running your rescue were to quit/die/become seriously ill tomorrow? Do you have a written plan worked out with other rescues to deal with that event, a plan that would include the horses, the property, the tack and feed, the bank account and donor list? For a while I was disapproving of small rescues because the weak point is the one or two people who do all the work. But then I decided that those passionate people are valuable; they do a lot of good for a lot of years, and rather than throw out the baby with the bathwater, I would like to support those small, passionate rescues (the ones who are well-run and doing a good job). But at the same time, I would like to encourage them to associate and network with others so that if one rescue goes down, there is a plan in place where the others can take up the slack. I have noticed that, like many commenters on this blog, the people running rescues can be not only passionate, but quirky, opinionated and cantankerous. That is fine, but can you please swallow your opinions enough to coordinate with each other a little? Is there a plan in your area to have, say, a once-a-year banquet or breakfast where several local rescue people meet, get to know each other, talk shop, plan, etc.?
Sad as it is, I can understand that shelter euthing for ringworm…..
I have been a cat rescue volunteer (kitten foster mom) for over 10 years and have dealt with ringworm many many times. Its nothing short of a nightmare. It is highly contageous to both other animals and people and is very difficult to eradicate from the environment. The spores can live 18-24 months in the home or shelter. Workers and volunteers can also easily track the spores home on their clothing and shoes and infect their family and their own animals. My foster kittens live in a spare bedroom and when ringworm strikes we go into “sterile mode”…paper gowns and booties and gloves to reduce the risk to spreading it around my house to my own animals. Its not fun. And try telling a semi-feral kitten with very sharp claws that being bathed in stinky sulfur really is for his own good….LOL…never mind that the whole house smells like rotten eggs while your dipping.
The medicating and sulfur dipping of the affected animals and the disinfection of the shelter facilities is extremely laborous and time consuming. I doubt most public shelters with their non-existant budgets and very limited staff have the ability to do it. It can also take months for affected animals to recover and their is just no way open intake shelters can give animals that kind of time. Unfortunately sometimes the only practical solution is the euth the animals and disinfect everything.
Now upper respritory euthing is just an easy way out, in my opinion. MOST cats will recover with a course of Clavamox without any complications..they just need to be seperated from the others during treatment. Disinfecting the shelter is easy enough and URI doesnt live long in the enviroment like ringworm does.
Cathy your right that not all exposed cats will actually get ringworm. Cats can be carriers and spread it to others but not become infected themselves. Years ago, before I kept my foster kittens seperate from my own cats I had a problem with kittens constantly getting infected with ringworm many weeks after they had come into my house. We couldnt figure out where it was coming from since all my animals appeared healthy and my house is spotless. On a hunch, we had my crotchity-old-calico-kitty (who liked to sleep with the fosters) tested and low-and-behold we found ringworm on her skin and hair shafts. She showed absolutely no symptoms but after we treated her my fosters quit getting ringworm.
Unfortunately, most shelter environments are extremely stressfull on the animals which does tend to weaken their immune systems and make them more succeptible. I hope 300+ is an exaggeration and their just not wiping everybody out to conviently clear out the shelter.
The numbers were appearently about 250 in shelter and 100 in foster – I assume the fosters are safe (though that hasn’t really been addressed in the news) They have euthed 100 animals so far with 150 more to be done today as per the news last night. I’d like to know where all the protestors were last week when these animals just needs homes – they are all so concerned and upset now – where were they before…
and the guy in the news all up in arms because the cat he dumped there was on the euth list – he wanted his cat back (which he gave up because of allergies – yah never heard that before) so he could take it to live with a relative – where was take idea before you dumped your cat at the local shelter with the other 250 animals – grrrr – people that expect others to look after thier unwanted pets really bug me!
My question for the rescue professionals would be: How do you not get discouraged, when there are so many and you cannot help them all? Psychologically, it would be like banging your head against the wall, every damned day. Some people write blogs (I suspect) to help them cope; what do the others do?
I don’t get discouraged because I’m almost 43 and BOY things are a LOT better than when I was 23!
Obviously we’ve had a huge impact. I’m excited to see what it’s like when I’m 63!
You can’t fix it by snapping your fingers but that’s true of most things in life. Look at cancer.
I’m certainly not pro-slaughter, so don’t get me wrong… but do you think the problem with horse slaughter is the cruel method/transportation, or is it something else. If its the method/transportation, is there an acheiveable way to make this humane?
There are 40horses across from my stables who are going interstate for slaughter… RSPCA are doing diddlysquat (I have been writing to them weekly with photographs of the horses, still await a reply…), local rescues simply cannot deal with that many horses (plus there is not a market for that number of re-homes here), they are starving and horridly neglected where they are so staying put isnt an answer (plus the local council have said “you are above your stocking rate, they have to go” – what 80horses is too many??), local slaughter houses are full with waiting lists so cannot take them. Humanely putting the horses down on the property sounds like best option to me, but what does one do with 40horse carcasses? They cannot be buried insitu, and landfill prices are pretty high! I think it is ludicrous that the RSPCA/local council/local community (I am new to the area…) have allowed it to get this way….. So now 40 malnourished, lame, sick horses will have to stand on a truck across the desert to get to their slaughter house… THAT is aweful.
Then there are the brumbies. Aerial culling is a far more aweful way to deal with these horses than slaughter I beleive, as they dont always get a killshot. There is no market for them even when broken in and domesticated – as was evident when a bunch of (very very nice, not your runofthemill, well broken in) brumbies were put down earlier this year after being on the market for 6+months with no interest, and the station fast running out of food/water. I think teh station owners made the best decision for the horses (both those PTS and those who remain) by humanely destroying these horses before they fell into neglect, and refusing to part with them to unknown homes for next to no price, and thus keeping them out of slaughter/neglect (but I know many do not agree and there was huge debate about it). But this is not an option for smaller holdings in the more populated areas.
So what is the answer?
PS. To add insult to injury, the first example i mentioned is a riding school – yay a whole group of new horse people learning that this neglect is OK! woo!
The method and the transportation are a problem but I don’t think there is any way to make “assembly line” slaughter of horses humane. Horses are too sensitive and flighty, and they know when they are in line to die. It’s not like a cow, which is more easily fooled.
backinthesaddle,
I sincerely commend you for being able to work in a public shelter. Volunteering with a no-kill rescue I hear sooooo many comments about those “awful people who work at the kill shelters”. I used to politely, but now much more sternly, remind those clueless boobs that those shelter workers didnt create the problem of homeless animals…they are just the ones left holding the bag trying to clean up the mess. That usually shuts them up.
A couple years ago, I was at the local Animal Control shelter picking up a cat that I had adopted. The pick up area was the same place where people went to dump off their animals. A lady in front of me had a boxfull of sweet but very plain identical tabby cats. She was sooo proud of the fact that this was 3 generations of kitties in this box, but now she was going on vaction so she was dumping them at the pound. And she was just so sure someone would adopt them because they were so cute. (Ya, just like the other hundred or so plain tabbies already there). I was soooo angry I momentarily thought of sticking my foot up this womans behind but the AC worker was extremely calm and polite and offered her information about free/spay neuter, which the woman declined. Oh no, she didnt want mamma cat spayed as she enjoyed having kittens around..until of course they became “inconvenient”. I cant imagine working there all day and listening to this kind of crap and then thinking there is any hope for the human race……
I just want to clarify from my original post that I have no problem with horse rescues providing sanctuary to unadoptable horses if that is their mission. Personally, I prefer to see private individuals offer those horses sanctuary to free up space and resources at the rescue.
What I have a problem with is rescues who start out as rescue/rehab/rehome organizations and promote themselves as such, and solicit donations as such and then suddenly lose sight of the big picture and decide that every horse they rescue will have a forever home with them if nobody wants them. In short order they are full of unridable horses, and are unable to take in anymore that would be rideable and adoptable. With no adoption fees coming in they then turn to soliciting donations to sponsor their sanctuary horses. Yes, its their right to run their rescue any way they see fit. And personally, I choose not to donate to those types of rescues as I want my $$ to help as many horses as possible.
I’m really sorry for the off topic post but…being that I heard 4 horror stories today about it:
IF YOU BREED A MARE FRIGGEN’ PAY FOR THE TWIN PREGNANCY ULTRASOUND.
I know of 2 mares that lost their babies and 2 more that died because that owner didn’t get the mare checked for twins. It is, at most 200 dollars for a procedure that will save your mare. Way cheaper than disposal or aftercare for a twin birth. WTF? I’ve heard ‘don’t have the time’, ‘might not load’, and ‘oh I just want the baby’, and ‘expensive’. Look at your horse now. If the owners didn’t care I’d call then idiots. But almost everyone called the vet and tried to save the babies. One is at $1500 saving her mare, kicking herself.
Sorry for the OT post.
OT but very valuable. You can’t say enough about it.
Though I will say – vets can miss it. My friend’s vet missed it, despite my friend being very responsible and paying for the ultrasound, and the mare prolapsed and nearly died. She is out of the broodmare life now – in fact, she is my new barrel/pole prospect.
You are NOT doing rodeo now! LMAO!
I’m not entirely sure how this conversation got onto cats having ringworms?
but my 2 cents on the post is that Broadway looks like an adorable little mare who will make a lovely show horse and pony clubber for an experienced rider.
My question:
At what point do you quit trying to save and choose euthanasia? Is it a dollar amount? A quality of life measurement? Does the chance of rehoming have anything to do with such a decision?
It’s a good question but I’m pretty sure it’s hard to answer. I know that for me sometimes it’s nothing more than looking at their expression and seeing if I still see a desire to fight there, or if I see exhaustion. And that’s not always in a life and death situation like colic. Sometimes they are just lame and old and after a while you realize they’re just not that interested in living anymore. I have euthed a horse because they stopped being excited about cookies and that was like the final straw where I realized even though they were good weight and not suffering with some horrible condition, they just weren’t interested in life anymore – that chronic mid-grade lameness and just the “infirmities of old age” had taken it all out of them.
Whereas, my friend’s 40 year old Appy is still galloping around and CLEARLY not a euth candidate!
Sounds like they would have to catch her first…….
I don’t want to “humanize” the decision, but people in the health care profession are faced with this every day (though there are only a few like Kevorkian that expose it publicly).
We can extend most living animals lives to the point that the quality versus quantity becomes a question. I only hope that when that question is asked and I can’t answer it, that my living will is honored.
Unfortunately, we must act on our animal’s unpublished living wills.
Some day I would love to have a ottb rescue. I do plan on training TB’s as does my fiance, so I’d like to have a rescue on the side. Our own retirees will be first priority of course. No horse of mine will EVER end up at a bush track, on the chuckwagons, auction, or being starved at “a good home”. I’m really sick of hearing people say that slaughter is necessary and that it’s not an acceptable loss to have the horse euthanised. Like fuck it is you selfish fucking retards. Give me a few years to get the ball rolling and watch my retired horses go on to excellent show homes AND I’ll take less financial loss in the long run.
I seriously can’t wait to show those fuckers how it’s done
Come on zelika, tell us what you really think!!
BTW, good on ya!
Good for you. Hopefully you can find a good partner…somebody willing to handle the retraining of your retirees
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Love it! I just read about a racing outfit that has similar high standards. I don’t know if they really do what they say, but it sounds great:
“Horses First Racing is about showing there is a better way to care for racehorses before, during and after training. We use natural feed and remedies, instruct all our jockeys not to use the whip, turn out our horses in herds, start young horses gently using join-up and ensure they have excellent lifelong homes at the end of their careers. We are also pioneers of racing barefoot.”
I guess I just feel like a wet blanket today, but Zelika, no one knows what life will bring — it’s great to have a dream, but please have a solid financial plan for a horse business, because rarely do horse operations support themselves — the race business is especially tough because you report to your owners and if they don’t want to pay anymore, and say get rid of my horse, then it’s up to you to place or keep that horse. If you are both training TBs, will you have the income to support both your race horses and a rescue, vet bills, besides your rent or mortgage, your future children, medical insurance (now legally required!) and put food on the table? Twenty years of supporting numerous retired horses (because you say your horses will have forever homes once the owners release them) that need medication, special feed, and care is a great drain on the finances. I am not saying your should send horses to a sale, or euthanize them, but placing ex-racers is difficult sometimes, and you may have them for a while before they go on to other careers.
My good friends do it, but they are wealthy through real estate investments and work well paying full time jobs outside the horse industry and own their own property. Do you have $5000 a month, or more, to spend on your horses and retirees? Because that’s about what they spend for their own place, growing their own hay, with pasture. Maybe you are also financially secure, in which case, awesome, go for it. If you have a plan on how to support your training and rescue, good for you.
I encourage anyone to live their dream and be in the horse business, but a financial plan with realistic income goals and expenditures is so important! I guess because I am older, I have learned that the horse business is not for the faint of heart, and sometimes hard choices need to be made when the dream hits reality. I would love to have lots of rescues and retirees, but I don’t have the income to support it, so I have as many horses as I can realistically take care of without hurting my family or my critters.
Just my .02 cents, for what it’s worth. I hope you do show them “how it’s done.”
As I’ve said before, if you treat the horse BUSINESS like a BUSINESS, you are unlikely to find yourself in deep water financially.
Oh not to worry lol. He already owns a farm and if the relationship fails my grandfather willed his to me. I’ve been in the industry long enough to know how much I can expect to make when I do get my licence. My whole goal is to keep the retired ones I trained a little longer and put some useful training on them and get maybe $5000 instead of $200 while giving the horses a much better shot at always having a home. I have zero intention of keeping them all for life, and I won’t be pushing the horses hard enough to be retiring horses fast enough to have too many all at once. I’ve made a fairly good side living retraining off trackers, and the longest its taken me to sell one after deciding to sell it is 4 months. That’s really not that long, and I ended up getting $8000 for that one instead of the original 5 I was asking because the extra time gave me a chance to take him to a few shows which is how I ended up selling him.
I’m ok with making the desion to euth if I have to, and I have done it before. One mare I had with mental issues could have been fixable, but she would probably never be very trustworthy and it would have taken me probably about a year to get her suitable to sell. I had her euthed simply because my time and effort was better spent on a mount with less quirks that couldn’t be as easily “re-messed up” if she somehow did fall into the wrong hands. I trained and re homed 4 or 5 in the same time it would have taken me to do her, and she would have been difficult to place.
As fugs said, it needs to be looked at as a business. One of the ways I’m ensuring I have lots of money to work with is NOT HAVING CHILDREN! Aside from me hating the snot nosed screaming pant pooping/peeing little money/time pits, I have a lot of genetic issues in my family (cancer diabetes amongst other things) as does my fiance, so neither of us feel its fair to create a life knowing what it will be prone to, just so we can ignore the thing because we’re always with our horses. Our horses and our dogs are our children, and that’s the way its going to stay.
Along the lines of accreditation, and how often those get reviewed after getting the stamp of approval, are they going to make public those rescues they reviewed and denied and perhaps why?
While giving accreditation to rescues is an awesome step forward, one could learn alot from those they turn down, and the reason for the denial as well.
I think if GFAS wants to have credibility they need to disclose whether they have denied more than one (i.e. the total number that have applied and been denied). I am not sure they should disclose who applied and was denied.
Yeah, I don’t know. Everybody knows about the one because she (the rescue) was the one who ruined any chance of confidentiality by publicly posting about the fact that she was up for accreditation.
…and good for GFAS for following up and reporting it. There was some confusion at first about what was up because of their confidentiality issue – but when Whispering Winds tried to claim on a public forum that the only reason Jerry Finch was there was to “help her place horses” he issued a public statement (ok’d by GFAS) that nixed that and said in essence that the minute he saw criminal activity, he filed a complaint with the county and had absolutely nothing to do with the crazy broad.
Um, I’m sorry. But if you’re a horse rescue and JERRY F-ing Finch files a complaint about you to animal control…don’t you think it’s time you find another hobby? *snort*
I think GFAS can be a good thing, but they do have some bugs to work out for the horse rescue end of things. At least it’s a start. (I didn’t mean to sound negative in any way about them before.)
Now unfortunately, the loon is expanding to rescue other animals and continuing on about her merry way…as if none of it ever happened.
I would like to see more of a focus on preventing this whole mess to begin with, yes there is euthing and gelding, but how about if there were no “extra” horses. Rescueing is good, but not having to is even better. Breeding with a plan in mind only, ie-for replacement use or if you have a home before you even breed. Those whom produce the extra and don’t tell me there aren’t excess tbs, ie racehorses and the pleasure industry, let them rehome their own damn horses. And if you don’t, too bad, no where to send them. There are lesss farms, and less horse homes every year, best be planning for it, and no I’m not pro slaughterm, I’m pro responsibility. If you keep building rescues, then you keep giving these idiots a option to breed.
ugh pro-slaughter, I can’t spell today.
I agree. In fact, someone asked if the HSUS was doing anything specifically to address overbreeding, and they are not. They are doing great work against puppymills this year – so they are on track, let’s just apply it to horses now!
Overbreeding = irresponsible agriculture at its best.
The TB world has kind of sunk itself into a bad cycle as far as breeding. People have a mare that didn’t work on the track (Ie soundness, bad behavior) but they don’t want it to go to slaughter so “let’s just breed her” thus creating a bunch more horses that can’t run and all of them end up going to slaughter. The thought of the mare is there, but people often refuse to accept it when a horse is crappy.
People do it because of horses like 6 thirty Joe. He is by a nobody stallion out of a nobody mare, and wound up being a multiple blacktype stakes winner. Never mind all the other foals out of that combo that went no where. Fluke happens and unfortunately way too many people rely on it.
OT Cathy: idea from a very popular dog blog “life with dogs” dot blogspot dot com. Not sure if the LWD blogger “invented” this, it might have come out of the blogpaws conference recently. It is a way for readers to discover new blogs to read and a way to drive new readers to blogs to up the numbers. It’s called a “blog hop.” Take a look at the LWD blog for last Wednesday and Saturday to see how it’s done. What a terrific thing it would be to have a “blog hop” for horse-related blogs (and includes mules too, Fenway Bartholomule!).
Not that it would add to your work load. Much, anyway!
Maybe a good way to spread the word about the great work being done by legit horse rescues.
I don’t have time to comment on everything, but I promise you the Unwanted Horse Coalition and its employees are not pro-slaughter. I know them and I’ve worked with them, and they want to help horses as much as you do.
Have you ever met Dave Duquette? Because he’s one of the most pro-slaughter jerks in the world and I have the intercepted e-mails to prove it.
I am sure there are anti-slaughter members of the UHC but the leadership is pro-slaughter.
The UHC/AHC is plenty pro slaughter as well as uninformed;)!!! However Dave Duquette is leader of the UHF (formed out of the AQHA PAC for those unfamiliar with the details) and UOH not the UHC/AHC.
Sorry! Needed more caffeine apparently. You are right.
Well, being right does not make it any better!
James Gray convicted animal abuser has absconded from court. There is a warrant for his arrest. Here are the details.
http://tinyurl.com/32wjsj9
I don’t know if you know about this, but there’s an incident in the UK where a man convicted of serious neglect of over a hundred horses has gone on the run.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8678433.stm
In regard to the lady who brought in a box of idential kittens to the shelter….
I used to work at an animal shelter. When someone bought in 10 idential kittens or puppies, we would have to pull 1/2 to 3/4 of them out and kill them immediatly. People who were sure their little kitties or puppies would get a good home, had no idea that most ofthem were dead before they were even out the driveway. We often pulled the females out first to die, because it cost more to have them fixed, and people didn’t want to pay it. With limited cage space, we could not fill them up with idential aniamls. We had to keep a selection of different colors, breeds, sizes, etc. And, if your pups or kitties were past the “cute” stage, they were the first to go. It’s a tough tough place to work. We were a shelter for the city, so we had to take everything brought to us, as well as the public’s unwanted pets. Rare was the person who brought in a huge idential litter of mixed breed pups, who left a donation. We’d ask if they’d like to leave a donation and they looked at us like we had three heads. Needless to say, I did not last long there. We had one new employee that didn’t last one day. When she found out how the real world worked, she ran and hid under the desk for the rest of the day and never came back. You have no idea how hard it is to kill an animal when it’s trying to shake your hand! ( I cared for the animals and did not actually kill them, but I saw it done.) And yes, we had a lovely Collie who sat and offered her paw to the man who killed her by injecting her into her heart. That was it, my last day there!
The farm that I used to work for had a girl apply for a groom position (and was hired). When asked her reason for leaving her previous job working for the aspca shelter, her reply was “I got tired of killing animals. I want to take care of animals”.
I think that anyone who wants to breed randomly should be required to work that shelter job for a month.
Ugh – awful, and I thought euthanizing animals at a vet clinic was bad. I’m going to go hug my (shelter rescue) cat now.
Absolutely right – and therefore providing a humane end of life for your horses is part of the cost of doing business!
Sorry – The above post was meant to reply to FHOTD’s comment:
“As I’ve said before, if you treat the horse BUSINESS like a BUSINESS, you are unlikely to find yourself in deep water financially.”
It’s been a long day
Classic Fugly breeder here
Just discovered this classic for ya, Fugs. They breed quarterloosa horses (among other things, that is anything with 4-legs & a vag pretty much), horses live in barbed wire pens with uncapped T-posts, foals run around with nylon halters on, & to top it off?
*Drum roll*
Their unproven, mutt-bred, 3 yr old quarterloosa stallion is pictured with his chain lead dangling & bones poking through.
I would love to know what these people think when the publicly post things like this! What the hell were they thinking?!
At least the stallion is gelded now. Owner of web site says “:-[“. Now she needs to feed her horses and worm her babies!
Ick… That stallion would be a really cute gelding for someone willing to put some groceries and training in him. What’s up with that photoshopped picture of the saddlebred “in her new home”? I’d hate to think what her new home REALLY looks like, because she obviously was not trotting through that big green yard we see.
Ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!! “Quarter Saddleloosa Colt”
I’m still giggling.
OK, I give — what is that white furry animal on the for sale page of that site? I have to confess, I couldn’t figure out what it was, a chinchilla or something?
As far as her stallion …. yeah. Thx pls drive thru.
miss that edit button … “thx ps drive thru” is not a meat reference, I just meant the horse was eminently forgettable as any kind of breeding animal! Is there a reason to breed appaloosas that don’t have color? I thought that was the point of the breed, since in my experience they have difficult personalities. Maybe a quarterloosa would have good endurance and feet, though. ?
Maybe a ray of hope in this discussion? Now if we could get horse owners to prefer rescue horses……
http://www.thereporter.com/wirenews/ci_15076112
I understand the issues around reporting who was denied and why.
On the other hand, rescues could learn alot about what to do to improve and get accredited from those issues/mistakes.
Further donors and supporters could learn alot about what to look for in good rescues and what might constitute a red flag. Let’s face it there are so many donors out there who’ve only sat on a Merry Go Round horse and have no first hand knowledge of what it takes to care for horses, healthy or otherwise.
Maybe a general ‘here are some reasons we’ve denied rescues accreditation….’ without naming names?
As for GFAS… I really wanted to try and get accredited somehow, but looking through the requirements, we don’t own or lease our land. The boarding situations we have worked out work really well for us but I don’t think we qualify (plus we keep horses at multiple locations). Oh well!
At Homes For Horses, GFAS said that they would consider accrediting rescues that worked on a foster home basis. Contact them with questions. I think they will bend that rule if you can show that you really do have control of your program and don’t have 56 horses in 23 locations, some of which you no longer have a working phone # for.
I’ve now read more heart-rending stories about animal rescues than I ever cared to hear, and so will dedicate the rest of my evening to trying to forget them. However, since the point of this post is how one keeps up hope in the face of so much horror, I thought I would try and contribute.
I don’t have any particularly good stories about individual rescue critters, but I do have some ‘big picture’ stuff for you, particularly those who work in animal shelters.
In my (admittedly, tiny, isolated) country, buying a puppy will cost you a couple of thousand dollars. Want one from the shelter? Well, I hope you are willing to wait… for it to be born, found and seized. How did we manage this? Laws. You don’t just need a license to breed, you need a license for each and every litter. Puppies born without a license are seized.
We even had the feral cat problem completely under control, to the point where the TNR people responsible for them were seriously considering keeping the last few ferals intact and breeding them, because there wasn’t a kitten to be had for love nor money anywhere. Unfortunately they then slacked off and we have a minor problem again, but it’s being worked on.
So. It can be done!