Yep…that’s broke
Apr 29 2010
It kind of came up again in the comments…and it’s true. You do not need a bit on a broke horse. In fact, you may not even need a bridle at all on a broke horse. Here is yet another example of how a BROKE horse rides.
Now, I know there are those of you out there who feel like you are out of control without your bicycle chain/twisted gag/draw reins/tie down/whatevertheFUCKthatisonthispoorhorse’sface. And trust me, I have been on a lot of strong horses in my life and, as you may know, I am neither big nor strong. I understand that feeling of horror when you realize that the horse really wants to head for the hills at Mach 10 and there isn’t a damn thing strength-wise you can do about it. But putting the equivalent of an emergency brake in his mouth truly isn’t the answer. It works…for a while. And then he gets pissed and sore and starts running through it. Now you have a horse who’s strong, and pissed off and sore. They go even faster like that.
I’m not a snaffles-only person, and I’d much rather see a little more bit on a horse as opposed to a person with a death grip on the mild bit. However, I’ll tell you right now, there isn’t any way in the world that both you and your horse won’t get better at whatever it is you do by spending time with less artillery in his mouth. Yes, I know how those of you with the OTTB’s feel. I’ve ridden more OTTB’s than anything else in my life – polo’s swarming with them. And one of the first things I learned is that you can’t out-pull them anyway, so pulling isn’t the answer. Circling to reduce speed with a giving hand on the reins, long-trotting ‘til the edge is off, and using your seat to ask the horse to slow his gaits are all a lot more effective. And this video (and many more) prove that you can train a hot horse to whoa without artillery in his mouth.
So, give it a shot this weekend. Go in the round pen, if your barn has one, or have your trainer put you on the longe if you don’t. Then dial the artillery way back. A plain snaffle if your horse normally goes in a shanked bit, or try a bitless bridle or just the halter. No draw reins, no martingale or tie-down. You don’t have to try going without the bridle (and please don’t do anything dumb – I’m not responsible if you get on with nothing at all in your back pasture and crack your head. Use some common sense.) All I’m saying is, try less than you think you need and try to go on a loose rein. If the horse trots really fast, hey, so what? You can post really fast, right? Try not riding off your hands. See how much you can adjust your horse’s speed by sitting the trot or posting more slowly. Use your voice. Do you really have a whoa or do you just have a lot of steel and leverage? Time to find out!
I know plenty of you will have no problem riding like this – in fact, you ride like this every day. But I also know that many of my readers are still riding like this person below (that was the close up of their … whatthefuckexactlyWASthat?… bit above). That, by the way, was from the 18″ crossrails class. No kidding. Someone on the Bad Riding Livejournal Community found it. Um, if you are THAT out of control, YOU ARE NOT READY TO JUMP!
I want better for you, and for your horse. It can be done – really!
If you’ve successfully reformed a strong horse or a bolter, or learned how to ride so well that the behavior disappeared, share your story, please!
314 comments to “Yep…that’s broke”
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Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the breeding on the horse (Texaco) featured in the video? Now, that is my idea of the ideal Quarter Horse!
For those not familiar with rodeo, the video illustrates exactly the reason a rope horse is worth his weight in gold. It is a fact of life that cattle need to be doctored in the open and they just don’t walk up and wait for you. Competitive roping events began as a way for cowboys and their horses to refine their skills to make the act of roping as trauma free as possible. That calf represents a ranchers profit-he doesn’t want it crippled or hurt. Everything about the way this calf was handled was close to textbook perfect. What makes it such a stunning performance is the horses impeccable timing that allowed the calf to be roped, turned, tied while applying just the correct amount of pressure to the rope to assist this cowboy and lessen the struggling of the calf.
Real Cool Dual (Texaco)
Dual Pep x Lenas Susie Oak
beegee3: Sounds absolutely gorgeous – and you’re right – this bit wouldn’t be a problem on an experienced horse with an educated rider…
Unfortunately this sort of hardware can sometimes be misused and misunderstood.
I think the moral of this story is more about wrong bit in the wrong hands on a horse that likely needs some time and training (instead of that thing in his mouth).
Any bit in the wrong hands will be bad. Tom Thumb bits, owned/used by thousands of people can be awful….generally the more loose parts (joints, swivels) the more ways a bit can poke and pinch. After that follows leverage, the more leverage the more pressure (pain) ……all of which are exactly shown in the jumper…..that poor animal has put it’s head in the only place it could hope for relief…..I’d bet my last $$ that if they are dumb enough to try a martingale or tie down that horse will flip over. Yes, I also saw where they even added something running up over the head, guess for more pole pressure ?? In barrel horse circles I’ve heard people call that a ‘brain chain’ ….OMG . Some of the craziest bits are to be found there…along with the horses they can’t get in the ring anymore because they are ‘ring sour’…..there should be a law that riders need to be smarter than the horse…..
Tom Thumbs pinch the heck out of horses, and almost every beginner horse is in them because you can buy them for $10 at the farm store!
I haven’t felt compelled to make a comment here for a long time, but I thought that I’d say something on this particular subject.
My horse Woodrow was a school horse where I work. He was donated just over a decade ago, because he was supposedly too lame to be used by his previous owner, who claimed he had navicular (turned out that the idiot, who was – and is – a farrier was trimming his feet too short on a regular basis). Once we got his feet sorted out, Woodrow was great for walk/trot lunge and lead-line style lessons, but would bolt at the canter. His previous owner had used him as a ranch horse and team roper; he’d also used some sort of horrible wire or chain bit and nearly severed poor Woody’s tongue – to this day he has thick rope-like scars on both sides of his tongue right where the bit lies.
In trying to reform Woody of his bolting problem and teach him not to fear a rider’s hands or the bit, I tried all kinds of mild snaffles, and the only one he sort of tolerated was a thick bean-mouth french link, but he still didn’t ride well in it. I then tired him in various types of hackamores and bitless bridles, with no success. I finally tied a rope halter for him and started riding him in that, and he did remarkably well. I rode him in it for a good two years even though his bolting problem was fixed shortly after discovering the rope halter and learning and working through a few John Lyons exercises that are geared towards bolters. Finally, though, I felt like I’d like to be able to do a little more with him than the rope halter would allow, and I started using the very mild grazing bit I used for when the kids rode him. After about six months of practice he was doing flying changes, rollbacks, loping calmly on a loose rein like never before. And he actually started reaching for the bit when presented with the bridle. It had taken nearly four years, all told, for him to get to that point, but it was four years well spent.
Today Woody belongs to me, legally as well as in my heart, where he has been for so many years. He’s about 29 and enjoying his plush retirement at home with me, helping to teach my newly-broke 4 y/o filly how to be ridden with other horses in the arena, loping happily around the arena with his turnout buddy, keeping my grandfather’s old horses company in the corrals, and cuddling with me whenever I feel down.
Bolting is the vice I fear most, always have and always will, but it’s fixable most of the time, and it usually takes less, not more hardware to make it happen.
I’ll be the first to admit that’s it’s been a while since I’ve been on a horse due to injury and lack of money but when I started riding at the tender age 8 it was drilled into my head that I did not need my hands to ride and that your hands should always be used lightest and last! I am thankful for this! I hate when I go to shows and see these people (not just kids) yanking on their poor horses mouths! No wonder they always look so angry and sore.
A big part of my early horse education was riding with a halter under a bridle and using the halter’s leadline as reins and being told “Don’t touch the bit unless if that horse is bolting! And if he trys use your seat before then a one rein stop THEN use the bit!”
I had a bad accident involving the horse bolting and us parting company at a gallop – neadless to say that wasn’t pretty and still causes problems now. (I will say it was NOT the horses fault, it was a mix of me being fairly novice and a tb who was way too much for me when he had a moment – he was brilliant with the lady who had him on loan as she was a lot more used to tb moments) As a result going faster than I feel in control of can still freak me a bit althought this is improving. I currently have a 5 year old cob mare who is coming into work properly now after being lightly backed at 3, with a little work at 4 and then the winter off due to stifle problems which required more growing up. I was having problems with her running when trotting, leaving me feeling very out of control and us starting to fight a bit because I felt I was having to hold her back and her resenting etc downward spiral. I can’t afford lessons at the moment so I borrowed a camcorder and got my sister to film me riding her. I watched that and it wasn’t until then that I could see how stilted and slow her trot actually was, it gave me enough confidence to loose the contact completly and let her move forwards. She rushed off loads (at least thats what it felt like) but after a couple of sessions she has relaxed and slowed down and has a much more flowing trot which I’m comfortable with. I found that what I thought was happening (her being very strong and rushing off) wasn’t the truth and was able to get what I wanted without putting more bit in her mouth. She’s always been in a snaffle with full checks.
Great post, as per usual!
Now, I’ve been out the sport for a number of years but have recently gotten involved again. And I am *shocked* at the number of new “contraptions” masquerading as bits. I’m currently searching for a horse to part-board and have now tried several with novice/intermediate riders as owners who have huge selections of bizarre bits for their horses…with no proper training or supervision in their usage. I tried out one lovely, delicate OTTB jumper mare who, although she didn’t even know basic seat commands, was rigged up in a bit combination much like the one pictured. The owner was using it for “control”. I told the owner to send the mare to a proper trainer and to get some lessons for herself before she totally spoiled the mare.
Years ago when I started as a working student for a big event barn, I got the chance to take some lessons on one of the boarders horses. For the first lesson, the mare’s bridle wasn’t in the barn (I think the owner had taken it home for cleaning), so I just put together another bridle with a standard loose-ring snaffle; which we used on pretty much all the horses in training, in all phases. The trainer was very strict about her students learning how to use their seats/legs. I remember doing endless jumping gymnastics with no reins while I was there!
Anyways, I had a great lesson on the boarder’s mare. We had a great flat warm-up, did a few light gymnastics in the ring and then did a full cross-country school. The mare was trained to prelim, so that’s what we did! She was fabulous, relaxed and my trainer seemed super happy about everything. As the boarder was away on holidays, I got to ride the mare in a few more lessons. Her normal bridle was still gone, so I continued with the one I’d made…not thinking anything of it, as the mare was a great ride in it. The mare was going so well that when my trainer phoned the owner to update her while she was away, they decided to let me show her in an upcoming trial. We scheduled a lesson with me riding so that the owner to see the progress when she returned.
That day the owner was a bit late to the farm, so I ended up tacking up the mare as per usual with the bridle I’d cobbled together. Again, we had a great lesson and the owner was thrilled watching her mare go so nicely out on cross. After the lesson I rode up to the owner and she apologized for forgetting the bridle at home. Then she paused and said… “You were riding in a loose-ring snaffle??? And she went that well???”. My trainer was standing near with a giant grin on her face. At that point I learned that this lovely mare was normally *quite* a handful to ride and that for “control” (and against my trainer’s advice), the owner usually rode her in a full, three ring elevator bit, with the reins attached to the bottom ring. As you would expect, the mare was super nervous about the prospect of being hit in the mouth by that and never really relaxed when out cross country. She was very reactive as well, so any nerves on the rider’s part just made her worse. My trainer had been scheming ways to show the owner that the mare would likely go much better in a mild bit…so I ended up being the guinea-pig. I was still new to the barn, so I didn’t know the mare’s reputation and therefore wasn’t nervous about riding her. When I got up on her with the mild bit and she went well, I just assumed that’s how she always was! I learned quickly that she had good seat cues and she didn’t like her face being messed with, so that’s how I rode her. Happily, the experience was enough to convince the owner to relax and downgrade bits. The owner started off slowly, in the ring, and gradually worked up enough confidence to take the mare out on cross country. As the mare had a solid base of training, all she needed was a confident rider with a good seat to ensure that she was well-behaved (and relaxed) with a mild bit!
The Old Retired Guy (hereby referred to as TORG
) is a reformed bolter. I never really blamed him for it. His story is as follows… bought him for back board about 10 years ago, he had been the C/A jumper for a girl who moved to the area for college and subsequently dumped him at the farm of my (now ex) trainer’s friend. He was about 200ish lbs under-weight. I was hesitant to buy, but my trainer talked my parent’s and I into it (has the talent to be prelim in a year or two… blah, blah, blah). Now you see why I said ex-trainer.
Anyhow, I digress. I discovered pretty quickly that I had a horse with little brakes, a BIG red panic button, and claustrophobia. I never knew a horse like that before, and it took me a little while to pin down the issue. You see, (ex) trainer’s solution of halting- turn on the haunches- slow to the fence to avoid the Big Bid- halt again wasn’t working (surprise!). Or even better, raise the jump to “make him think”. I was taken off with more times than I could count in that time. Sadly, I let this go on for about 5 months before I wised up (and moved to college and new trainers
). I doubted my own instinct that this “technique” would not work, but trainer had a resume that I thought I should trust.
Then I found “the website”. Yup, I found TORG’s past trainer and owner and saw where his issues came from. TORG had come from Penn Natl. track about 5 years before I bought him, with a less than illustrious racing career. He spent a fabulous 90 or so days getting a crash course about being a riding horse and then off to the jumper ring. There he spent his time in a nice big gag bit and a short standing martingale (yeah, talk about conflicting aids). His brain was fried like an egg on a “Say No to Drugs” commercial, but he was talented and athletic so he just kept going.
Seeing that changed things for me. I wanted a fresh start, so he went for 6 months of turnout. He got to be a horse, and just a horse and we did a lot of ground work for that time. I even tried some Parrelli games. We lunged, long lined, then added side reins to help build muscle. Then we re-started like a young horse, and decided to stick to the Big White Box (ie The Dressage ring) for a while.
Now, don’t go thinking I’m one of those Classical “dressage will fix everything” gurus. But for the TORG it was the change he needed. I had a different horse on my hands when I learned how to ride forward into the bridle instead of the more common “wiggle the bit till they give” method. From that day on he went in nothing but a loose ring snaffle (not because all other bits are evil as some will say, but because he could not handle any major hardware in his mouth). He mentally could not handle anyone confining his face, so we worked a lot with the giving methods of Klimke and Tellington-Jones. Anytime his brain started to boil, we stopped, lunged for a few (going back to something he knew and was comfortable with) and then quit on a good note.
Once I felt like our basics (my own too… I spent months on the College school horses on the lunge line with no stirrups or reins) were back up to par, I tried to re-introduce jumping. We started with Cavelletti exercises which he took in stride, but as soon as they went any higher than that, the brain went back out the door. Despite the fact that I was an Eventer at heart, I made the decision to keep him and stick to the Big White Box. Mainly it was a sense of knowing what can happen to not quite sane horses down the road.
I have to say that was the right decision for me, even if it wasn’t the easy one. I learned more about giving a soft, forgiving ride, and tailoring a training program to the horse from him than any other horse I have ever sat on. I learned when to say uncle and try again another day. TORG has earned his retirement and he is certainly enjoying it to the fullest.
I forgot to mention that the time he spent in the Big White Box was quite successful. He was showning successfully at 2nd level and schooling 3rd movements when a pasture accident made his soundness questionable. I just wanted to mention that a measuring stick from where we had come from. When I bought him, he could not trot straight down the long-side of an arena without a major fit or an attempt to bolt.
As a teenager with my old trainer I rode a 13 year old Thoroughbred who had spent most of her life as a broodmare before being broke to saddle. By the time my trainer picked her up, it had been discovered that she would jump anything she was pointed at… so that’s what people did… and my trainer was no exception. When I started leasing her, I could hack her around in a happy mouth snaffle, but as the lease progressed we started jumping bigger and bigger, without any real knowledge of flat work, or basic aids… basically that photo in this post could have been me. At the time I was a scrawny little teenager who honestly thought my trainer knew best, and if she thought I should be jumping 3’6″ oxers, then I must be ready! (facepalm). From that happy mouth snaffle we changed to a twisted dee, then a pelham, then a twisted pelham, then a long shanked hackamore, then a Mikmar, then back to a thin twisted dee but with draw reins… and she would bolt at everything. It got to the point where I was cutting her mouth open during every ride because I would be hauling on her mouth so much just to try to get her to slow down, and I started dreading my lessons because I didn’t want to hurt her, but was afraid to stand up to my trainer. Luckily though,that trainer went on maternity leave shortly thereafter, and an acquaintance of hers who was also a trainer stepped up to take care of her horses. This rider (and my current trainer) put the mare in a sweet iron french link (after her mouth had fully healed), and spent weeks working the mare on a loose rein, doing transitions, circles, giving her a chance to come back if she did get too strong without hauling on her mouth, etc., and after a couple months of this the mare was so much calmer and easier to ride. The first time I asked for a canter, and she calmly picked it up instead of bolting, was the best feeling, and the reason why I switched trainers.
Another happy ending – and another great example.
What is with even the freaking THROAT LATCH being so tight??? Four fingers should be able to fit in there. I love that you said what I’ve been told (by multiple trainers no less): you will never out-pull a horse. You are not stronger than they are. You have to be SMARTER than they are. Learn to ride with your legs, seat, and hands working together to produce a quiet and responsive horse, and to be able to get Mr. OHMYGODTHATLEAFISCOMINGTOGETMEAAAAAHHHHH back inside his brain. If you can’t even jump an 18″ crossrails course–even if you have a hot horse–and maintain your seat, you are NOT ready to jump. At all. If you need whatever that thing on that horse’s head is to stop him, you are NOT ready to show.
You should be 1) honestly evaluating your riding skills vs. your horse. If you are over-mounted, then maybe it is time to consider full training for your horse, selling/leasing him to a more advanced rider, and schooling on a schoolmaster. 2) She needs to go back to riding 101: schooling without stirrups, cavelletti, etc. until she learns to ride again. 3) STOP SHOWING that horse until you can do those things at HOME quietly and without a torture device in his mouth.
Now, I’m exactly one of those people who needs to feel secure on my horse. But instead of throwing at them the largest bit I can, I teach them to develop a soft mouth. Normally, I ride my horse in a French link and ride with light contact once he’s warmed up. When we go out on trails (I have a nervous jigger) I’ll admit that I do put him in a swivel shank + high port. But I’m also a person with very light hands and I don’t touch my horse’s mouth unless he needs it or we’re training and need it.
In another instance, I brought a horse, whose little to no training pre-saddle was responsible for his tendency to bolt/rush/buck, back to earth by simply leaving his head alone. He learned not to fear the touch of the reins so his head went down and his feet did too
Another mare I worked with (my nightmare [<--- haha] as she reared badly) had the same issues with unnaturally high head carriage and a very soft mouth, but her owner constantly worked her in a very high port training bit. She at one point almost went up and over sideways with me but once she realised I wasn't there to yank on her mouth, we were fine! And yet another mare worked consistently with a high port bit: I threw a snaffle into her mouth, worked through a few arena sessions of her not knowing what was going on or expected of her, and rushing through my hands (more a symptom of having a hard mouth than ignoring me), and she started to listen. That one made me very proud.
I am a very firm believer that if we taught people A) how to take a correct seat and USE IT and B) how to have light hands and when it's okay to be heavy, we would solve 60% of behavioural issues. If we throw in how to correctly fit gear (bits included), that would easily eradicate 90% or more of any issues the horse is having. I haven't yet had a client with poorly fitting gear, but am excited for when that day comes to educate yet another clueless owner.
Wow.
That black horse is stargazing terribly. I have found in my experience there is only one cure for stargazing.
A milder bit.
In some cases, no bit…depends on what’s going on.
In extreme cases, like the mare who had stargazed for years, riding on NO contact for weeks, even months, is required to cure this habit. Which, incidentally, is dangerous…a stargazing horse can throw its head so far back it breaks its rider’s nose. I’ve seen it happen. (And the rider concerned beat the crap out of the horse instead of considering what it took to fix the habit).
Reformed bolter? I knew one. Little grade pony named Chico who would take off at a drop of hat, with absolutely anyone who rode him. A stronger bit made him worse, so they kept him in a jointed eggbutt, thinking that was the best they could do.
This horse SERIOUSLY took off. Head would come up, back would hollow so you couldn’t use your seat, bit between the teeth and off he went wherever the heck he wanted to go.
This horse taught me more than any other horse.. Because…see…I was SO fed up with him running off I was willing to try everything…
…and what worked was to drop the rein contact, use your inside leg and SEND HIM FORWARD. His back would come up, his head would come down, and he’d check back in. Nobody had ever taught me to ride inside leg to outside hand…no human. Chico taught me that…because THAT was how he NEEDED to be ridden.
One day we were doing a jumping contest. I was not riding Chico, I was on a different horse. Chico bolted. He almost bolted INTO a barb wire fence. It was a dangerous and unsafe situation…like so many at that barn. She wanted to get off.
So I took her aside and told her. “Drop the rein contact and put your legs on him, send him FORWARD when he does that’.
She jumped a beautiful clear round.
The trainer never spoke an unnecessary word to me again. She HATED me for fixing her horse. Which, incidentally, she then sold to somebody who put him in the softest rubber bit made and won hunter trials left right and center with the little guy.
I still feel I had the last laugh, but that was also the moment in which I fully grasped just how bad that woman was…because she would not accept wisdom from anyone else. I KNEW that horse. She had never ridden him…she couldn’t, he was a medium pony and she weighed like 300 lbs…she might have owned him, but there was no way you could work that horse out without getting on him.
My current trainer has a lovely little QH mare…who does exactly the same thing. And the same thing works with her too…relax the rein, inside leg on, forward forward forward.
The interesting thing is that both horses are tuned very ‘high’…high flight instinct, high anxiety. It’s my opinion that increasing leg contact on an anxious horse helps remind them you are ‘there’ and YOU are calm so they should be too.
Jennifer R–
You’re my kinda gal! We must have been trained by the same school. Inside leg to outside hand. Forward. Straight. Consistent. Yes!! It’s too bad a lot of trainers don’t know the basics. Once you learn them you always will know them and they apply to any horse in any discipline. The more you learn these the less important the bit becomes.
liz
That trainer…basics? Heck no.
There was only one thing anyone at that barn cared about, and that was ‘how high can it jump?’ Nobody there…including me, at the time I didn’t know better…grasped that a good jumper has to be a good flat horse *first*.
Draw reins were very popular there too. As were curb chains…at least they always lined them, but…
No time to read replies, almost have my Mom moved in, light seen at end of tunnel.
I still remember when the light bulb finally went on, about riding from the seat and legs and using the bridle to “finish” the task. I grew up riding some “freight trains” and had to get over the thinking that if you can control the head you could control the horse.
I had one experience of riding a run away with their nose tipped to my toe. That eye on the side was real helpful to keep running straight. Circle! Ha. When I realized the onery critter didn’t care who got hurt, I let the head go, sat down and had a Mr Toads Wild Ride. But I learned to give up on hanging on the face. Things got lots better after that.
Rode my mare on trails with halter and 2 lead lines. Side pull was a favorite. She also couldn’t stand a snaffle, chewed on it till it got sharp edges. A low curb, short shanked grazing bit was her favorite. I’d lift the reins an inch and get a response. Those few times she did the “freaky, OMG” thing, I had a tool to keep us out of trouble.
Thanks for posting this Fugs! I enjoyed that video. I often times ride my old mare around in just her halter. Sometime I just throw a lead rope around her neck and just neck rein her. She started being spooky about being bridled (vet later diagnosed uveitis [moonblindness] in her right eye, so the movement of the bridle next to her eye startles her), so I just started riding her in her halter, as she didn’t have a problem with that. When I looked at her, the lady rode her in some nasty looking shanked bit and just yanked her mouth half way to heck. When she refused to back up the lady yanked on her some more. Then she gave up and put her in a chain bit. When I decided to ride her, I put her in my o-ring snaffle and she backed up just fine. I rode her around in that snaffle for months, until she made a habit of bolting up and down hills on trail rides. She would barge right through that snaffle. I currently ride her in a small shanked bit, not sure what kind (it belongs to my barn owner). It has a 1 inch x 1 inch port on it, but nothing very bad. The only time I have to touch her face is on those hills, I apply a slight bit of pressure and she walks. Other than that, she doesn’t seem to notice a difference in the bit, and moseys down the road all the same. I’m selling her to a 4 year old little girl for her first horse, and I’m advising them to just put her in the snaffle, in case the little girl was to yank on her mouth, she doesn’t deserve that. I am currently riding a couple of 3 year olds, taking some western pleasure lessons with my trainer (who is training them). I am amazed at the power your seat and legs can have over the reins. All my horses have been old ranch horses, they hardly know anything about leg cues and seat cues. Then to get up on these young show horses and just the slightest change in my seat makes a huge impact on their speed. It’s so amazing to me! I’m so glad I am getting to do this, it is teaching me a lot about myself and my riding.
You know I think a lot of these over bitted problems come from lack of patience. I have a paint that is 9 years old but he wasn’t broke until he was 7. He’s pretty good in the arena or anywhere he is familiar but he can get very strong in unfamiliar places. I’ve been trail riding him this spring and the first couple of times we had some yahoo moments. It took a lot of self talk to make myself let go of his face and just stay relaxed, circle, etc. Well the last time I took him out it was amazing. He was a completely different horse. It’s like he realized “hey, this isn’t a big deal and it’s actually kind of fun.” We always want to make horses go faster (in their training) than they are ready and that is where so many of these problems come from. Why do you have to be jumping right now? What is wrong with doing some ground work and making sure it is solid?
The bit in the pic is a Myler combination. My (first) horse was 3 and had been ridden in loose ring snaffle when I got him. Soon discovered he’s cold backed & would buck almost w.out fail. Vet checked, teeth floated, etc… finally a friend offered a tiedown which helped a little but by no means prevented the buck. After 10 months in snaffle (riding constantly 3-4 times per week minimum), a buddy convinced me to use his Myler combo.
It was day & night. The difference between being able to ride on my own. I describe it this way- it was as if I had been speaking to him in another language but the second we switched bits, he understood. Like “OHHHHH, that’s what you wanted me to do, OK!” Actually was able to be significantly more subtle with cues & looser on the rein – and we’re talking within the first 5 min! Although it helped a little, he did (and does) still buck. Rode 5 months w/ Myler + tiedown, then switched back to our loose ring snaffle without tiedown in Sept. Still nice & responsive, I can ride him all day in just a halter and feel relatively confident after a warm up.
So- did I take a shortcut? Yes, I did. Was this the best decision? Well probably not, but as a 1st time rider it gave me the confidence to put the miles on him he needed. At least I went back, right!
Here’s our progression (sorry dont know how to do this)
Off topic but have you heard about this Cathy? http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_a90d6dd2-0a74-5e90-ac5d-6f582ff352e3.html Horse meat in Wyo?
By JOAN BARRON – Star-Tribune capital bureau | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 1:45 am |CHEYENNE — A plan to give the Wyoming Livestock Board an alternative to selling abandoned horses is getting stiff opposition from animal rights advocates.
And it is coming even before the new law goes into effect July 1.
The plan by members of the United Organization of the Horse is to set up something like a triage operation at the old railroad stockyards in Cheyenne for abandoned or unwanted horses. The horses would be screened and provided rehabilitation, training or slaughter, depending on their condition. The plan is ultimately to market horse meat in the state.
Rep. Sue Wallis, R-Gillette, was the prime sponsor of House Bill 122, which was signed into law by Gov. Dave Freudenthal.
“The animal rights people have put this on their agenda,” Wallis said last week in a telephone interview.
She said members of the United Organization of the Horse met April 2 and developed a plan for a “unified equine system.”
If people have horses they cannot sell or keep, they can donate the horses to the nonprofit United Organization of the Horse and get receipts for tax deductions for the value of the horses, Wallis explained.
Brand inspectors and law enforcement officers who find starving horses can turn them over to the organization if they can provide clear titles, she added.
If the horses are in reasonably good condition, they would go into a rejuvenation program with special food and care. If they have any potential and are in good shape, they can go into a rescue and training program. Horses unsuitable for slaughter, such as horses with foals, will be held.
Horses that are old and past a productive life or are dangerous and untrainable will be slaughtered, but in a humane way, Wallis said.
Her group, she said, is working with Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, an animal behaviorist and scientist who is autistic and has special empathy for animals.
Grandin, Wallis said, will design a humane system for the slaughter of the unwanted horses.
‘A small operation’
Federal law allows horse meat to be shipped anywhere for animal food, but not across state lines for human consumption, Wallis said.
Yet since Wyoming is one of 22 or 23 states that have meat inspection programs, Wallis said the horses can be slaughtered and used for human consumption in state restaurants or state institutions.
“This always will be a small operation,” Wallis said.
Her bill, which easily passed the Legislature, addressed a problem the Wyoming Livestock Board had because state law allowed only sale at auction of “estrays, livestock and feral livestock.” Livestock is defined to include horses.
With the new law, the board can sell the horses, send them to slaughter or destroy them.
“If they destroy them, there is a total loss,” Wallis said. The board may be able to recover part of its costs if the horses are sent to slaughter..
One section of the new law says the Livestock Board can enter into agreements with licensed meat processing plants to process meat from livestock disposed of by slaughter. The meat must be sold to state institutions or to nonprofit organization for no more than the board’s costs. For-profit entities would pay market cost for the processed meat, the bill says.
‘Wyoming people love horses’
Jim Schwartz, the Wyoming Livestock Board director, said the new law will not change the board’s policy of selling horses at auction.
“Send to slaughter is not an option in my opinion, and I would never want to dispose of them, although I may have to someday,” Schwartz said.
It can be an expense, though. He said a bunch of ranchers gathered up 230 horses a while ago and said they were strays. So the Livestock Board had an auction in Rock Springs and sold all 230 horses to a buyer from Montana for $1.
“It was a blessing, but we still had to spend $12,000 to $14,000 taking care of them,” Schwartz said.
The buyer said he would save the good ones and try to train some of the others.
“There’s no market for them,” Schwartz said.
He said he has to answer about 40 letters opposed to the plan that were sent to the governor’s office.
“In Wyoming, people love horses,” he added. “We’ll continue to do what we’ve always done and try to get them sold and find good homes for them.”
While the new law says the Livestock Board can enter agreements with licensed meat processing plant to sell the meat to state institutions and nonprofit organizations at the board’s cost, “That’s not going to happen,” Schwartz said.
First of all, he said, an operation must have U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection of horse meat for human consumption. There are no more horse slaughtering plants in the United States, he said.
Wallis, he said, has her own ideas and is moving forward.
“In her defense, she’s trying to find a positive way to take care of these horses instead of people turning them out to starve to death,” Schwartz said.
Keith Dane, head of the equine department for the Humane Society, said the bill passed so quickly his group didn’t have time to talk to legislators about it.
He said the mission of the United Organization of the Horse is to bring back horse slaughter. It is unfortunate that the Wyoming bill doesn’t even contemplate placing horses with rescue organizations as other states have done..
“I don’t think this organization has any experience in re-homing horses, placing them for adoption,” Dane added.
Horse meat, Dane and other animal protection activists said, contains drugs that can be dangerous for human consumption.
‘Americans don’t eat horse meat’
Chris Heyde, deputy director of government and legal affairs for the Animal Welfare Institute, said the law is “kind of disgraceful” given the federal law that, in effect, prohibits slaughtering of horses.
The last horse slaughterhouse in the U.S. closed in 2007. The federal law forbids the USDA from inspecting horse slaughtering facilities.
Heyde said if the Wyoming plan goes through and horse meat is provided to state institutions, a lawsuit is likely.
Patricia Fazio of Cody, a member of the Wyoming Wild Horse Coalition that works with the Humane Society, said the horse is not raised to be a meat animal, and that is why the meat is contaminated with so many drugs.
“Americans don’t eat horse meat,” Fazio said.
Fazio said she still cannot believe the bill passed so easily and that the governor signed it into law.
Wallis, however, points out Americans ate lots of horse meat during World War II. At that time, there was a shortage of beef and pork and the meat also was rationed. There also was a surplus of horses because of the mechanization of farms.
Today, 72 percent of the world’s population eats horse meat every day, Wallis said.
China leads the world in horse meat consumption, followed by Mexico, France and other European countries.
Wallis said that for every letter or e-mail she receives in opposition to her plan, she gets 10 in support.
Her organization is negotiating for the Cheyenne stockyards as the base of operation. The stockyards are currently leased to the Wyoming Livestock Board.
The organization also is working with the equine program at Laramie County Community College for the horse training piece.
Wallis said her group can contract with a cannery in South Dakota but wants to talk to the Wyoming Business Council about bringing that business to Wyoming.
Contact capital bureau reporter Joan Barron at joan.barron@trib.com or at 307-632-1244.
I acquired an interesting gelding. It was a weird situation, someone needed a place for him while he was having foot surgery off in CA, so i agreed to take the horse ‘On trial’ and I would buy the horse if I so wanted, or he would pay for board. In the end, it was a nasty fight to keep the horse, on account of having nothing on paper since the guy was supposed to be a friend… But, in the end some real friends talked to him, and told him to piss off.
Though I was told, had I taken him to small claims, and put a feed lean, they’d have given me the horse outright, and I wouldn’t have had to give the jerk a single penny.
So, when I got him, first I had to deal with his feet. He had those awful, done by an idiot walking horse feet where they’re all toe, and no heel. He’d just been shod before I picked him up, and within a few days he did develop a bowed tendon in his back right leg. I really wish I’d taken some pictures.
So, by the time he was fine to ride, I found he did not respond to the bit at all, and he was spooky. He would suddenly bolt to the side, and do all kinds of crazy things. At first, since I knew nothing about the horse, I thought he was just testing, but later I was able to talk to someone who knew the horse, and the idiots who screwed him up so bad.
Basically, his life was this:
His first owner raised him, trained him, and used him to handle bird dogs at Field Trials, meaning he learned that when riding in a group, he gets to be in front, and in front only. His first owner died, and he sat in a pasture for several years before being sold to owner # 2
Owner #2 was not a confident rider. This horse would run off with him, so he thought the fix was to move to a harsh bit. And then a harsher bit. And harsher. To the point that he would flip over backwards onto #2 and charge through the bit blindly. Finally, the last straw was when he was riding him at a very large Field Trial (Nationals, actually. XD) and Scooter can off with him, up through the entire gallery (all the spectators, all on horseback) up to the front where the two judges stopped the horse by blocking him with their mounts. So, #2 sold him to a man I know, who trains dogs.
This was the man who was able to tell me basically everything about Scooter, as he knew the first owner.
He quickly sold Scooter to the guy I got him from, who was an old man, who was somehow under the impression that this was an easy going, 15HH gelding. He had the horse for a month, when he had to go get surgery, so he called, and asked if I wanted to try out a easy going, little gelding.
When I went to pick him up, I was surprised to find that he was a 16.2HH monster who barely fit in my large TB size trailer. I was used to my walking horses having so much room, it was ridiculous.
Now, about the flipping over, and everything, I had no idea until I’d made a lot of headway. Which I am actually grateful for, because in that sense, ignorance is bliss. If I knew that he was this former man killer, I don’t know that I would have been able to ride him with that much confidence. He was a horse that had zero confidence of his own, so that would have been dangerous. He would spook at a lot, if alone, or if I was leading him, but when I would ride him, he would feed off of my confidence and be a whole other horse.
He took a lot of work, and it was slow going, because there wasn’t a lot of time that I could work on his main problems, after the first few months. After a little while, when I rode him in the round pen, or the arena, or took him out to ride alone, he was perfect. He would want to go fast-but that suited me. His running walk, and his canter were such a pleasure to ride, I had no problem with it, and he always stayed under control alone.
His main problems would be when you rode him in a group, because he would just have to be in front. I am proud to say that he never ran off with me, past anyone we weren’t supposed to pass until that day the rein broke, and he dropped me on my head.
I would have to say the most infuriating thing with him, was people would always say “How does that little girl ride him” because he had the reputation from that time at the GSP Nationals. Plus, the few times where, even though I told them no, my parents let other people ride him. All of those times, Scooter either ran off with him, or the people had enough good sense to bail before so. Of course, this always took me back about twenty steps. All of these people always just pulled, pulled, pulled, and pulled on his mouth. They just didn’t understand, and as you see, I’m still pissed that my parents didn’t listen to me.
After about two years, I had him to the point where he listened to only a little pressure, but because we were moving across the country, my parents decided to sell him, in favor of an untrained monster, who is still running wild in our pastures today. It is a certain sense of bitterness that I refuse to touch her. She’s their mess, let them deal with it.
Luckily, the man that bought my love is a good man. He is very experienced, and knows better to just stick a harsh bit in his mouth, and Scooter is very happy. He gets to live in a huge pasture out in Texas somewhere most of the time.
I think what really hurts the most about selling him was I poured everything into that horse. I told people he was my dream horse, and it was like he was born just for me. And finally, after all my hard work, finally I had the horse that I always knew he could be. And they sold him. (Not only that-I was promised money from the sale, a year+later I’ve yet to see a dime)
But, now I have my filly, and I think she’s the best thing for me, after having to give up Scooter. She makes me happy, and she will never have anything crazier than a snaffle touch her mouth. I might even start her with a bitless bridle.
I didn’t really care, or think much about bits before Scooter, but he really taught me about that. He just taught me a lot, period.
And I have to say. I did once have the satisfaction of riding him in a group with Owner #2, and for that hour, Scooter was perfect. Never put a hoof out of line, and the man was floored, since I didn’t have a big old nasty bit in his mouth. I just had it in my head so strongly that I wanted Scooter to be perfect, just to show the idiot what a horse he was, and Scooter picked up on it.
Also, my new favorite bit:
http://www.bedfordtack.com/catalog/images/5-ring%20double%20twisted%20wire%20bit.jpg
Beautiful, isn’t it?
I wonder if the people who use it ever learned about leverage. The force that bit must use, with the length of the shanks, and the length of the purchase. I bet it would be rough even with soft hands.
If you feel the need to use a bit like that, perhaps you should find something else to do and let someone else train your poor horses.
it looks like some kind weird barrette
I recognize that! I think fugs had it on here a while back. I believe she called it the twelve circles of hell.
Most of my favorite memories with my horse are the ones of us hitting the trails or mosying around the pasture, bareback, with only a halter and leadrope. He’s getting old now, (he turned 27 in January) and a little creaky, and his back isn’t quite as round and comfy as it used to be, so those days are pretty much behind us. Someday though, I’m sure I’ll have another horse I trust just as much.
I used to work at a pretty terrible riding stable, and about five years ago, they acquired a big Percheron cross gelding who they thought would make a great vaulting/therapy/summer camp/jumper/trail horse. Yeah. These people were psychotic. One woman ran it, and she taught lessons in every single discipline, all pretty badly. Anyway, about the horse. He was only about 15.3 hands, but built thickly. I couldn’t even wrap my arms around the base of his neck. He was eight years old, and had been working as a carriage horse for a wedding service, but had a tendency to bolt. (Sounds like a perfect child’s horse, right?) I’ve always loved big horses, (I’m 5’10†myself, and have a pretty large frame) so when he got to the barn, I was put in charge of retraining him from spooky carriage horse to perfect all-around kids’ horse. I was fifteen at the time. I’d been riding for about seven years and considered myself to be a fairly competent rider, but even so, that was a lot to put on a fifteen year old. My boss had me ride him only twice in the arena in an O-ring snaffle before taking him on a trail ride. He didn’t do particularly well in the arena. He held his head high, like he probably always had on the hitch, and his gaits were huge and choppy. Since he had little to no training under saddle, he didn’t go off your leg or seat, and I had to rely entirely on hand and voice aids. He was extremely hot and spooky. He would only canter on the left lead, no matter how much I tried to get him on the right. That canter took more work and muscle to sit than a lot of bucks I’ve ridden through. Regardless of all that, though, we took him on his first trail ride. My boss rode her TWH, and we went out on the normal trail. You have to ride about a mile down a country road to get to the trail, which makes a big loop through the woods, and ends up back on the same road. He didn’t do terribly on the trail itself. He spooked at everything–mailboxes, cars, butterflies–but all he did was jump sideways or lunge forward a few steps. Nothing I couldn’t handle. After the trail, though, when we got back on the road, he recognized where we were, and bolted. Dead run, all the way back to the barn. There was absolutely nothing I could do to stop him. I was sitting hard, leaning back, hands firm at my hips, screaming “WOAH!†at him, but nothing slowed him down. I gave up, got in gallop position, and hoped for the best. That ride terrified me. I should have known better than to ride the horse on a trail to begin with, but I trusted my boss. After that ride, I started working with him on the lunge, and with patience, he really progressed. After a few months, I was confident enough in his gaits to ride him again in the arena, and eventually on the trails. He was built like a barrel, and turned out to be a ton of fun bareback. I don’t work at that barn anymore, but when I left, he was doing quite well with the vaulting team, and was even being ridden by a few intermediate riders, but ONLY in the arena. You can turn a horse around, and you don’t need force to do it. Only a little patience and respect.
And lots of wet saddle pads. ;o)
I’ve had two very different experiences with bitless riding.
The first was with a little Arab X mare called Callie. She’d get tense and start head-flipping, over and over and over again. I was having confidence issues – still – at that point, and I was scared to death to ride anything shaped like an Arabian. My instructor loaded me up on her back in the round pen, took away the bridle, and said, “Just ride.” We spent most of the summer just walking and trotting in the roundpen, without a bridle. It was actually a lot of fun and did wonders for my confidence, once she stopped flipping her head – although I suspect I made a couple of barn visitors a bit nervous when I walked over and asked my instructor if I was riding in a bridle one day!
On the other hand, I rode a short-necked Percheron/TB mare for a little while in a bitless bridle. She could and did bully her way through it. I had a lesson the week before I got married on this particular mare; we spent the whole lesson doing walk and trot circles, and she was pulling-pulling-pulling like I had a modest-sized freight train on the end of the reins the whole time to try and get over to a jumping lesson at the other end of the arena. I didn’t have a half-halt with her, because she was just plain ignoring anything that wasn’t a direct order to turn. We kept a reasonably round circle, but stupid me, I wasn’t wearing gloves, and I ended up with enormous blisters on both ring fingers from the (braided) reins. I actually had to beg off cantering at the end of the lesson because by that point, it hurt to just hold the reins. NOT a fun experience. Keeping novices out of a horse’s mouth is not a bad thing, particularly for jumping (which was why she was bitless to begin with) – but holy hell, that mare needed a bit. I did get to ride her in one a couple of times, and she was 1000 times better in a snaffle than she was bitless.
My dauthers new pony comes unglued when trying to but a bit in her mouth…we now have to use molasses and such but man can she put that head up very high-once in she is fine but what a hassle. She rides perfectly in a halter and reigns. So does anyone know if a bitless bridle is allowed in WA State 4H classes, it would make our life so much easier. The little mare is 9 and was previously owned by nice people who knew nothing about horses–I imagine bridling was something they just didn’t know how to do. And thanks for the Trevor video he is awesome to watch in person too.
Have you checked her teeth *and* her ears? Its possible the problem isn’t the bit per se but the actual act of being bridled.
I just got a young horse that was a bolter. He is an OTQH turned barrel horse. I don’t think they spent much time with him softening around the barrels – he just knew how to run so they put a big bit in to make him turn. It has been six weeks, and now I ride in a snaffle with loose split reins and he’d give any western pleasure horse a run for their money. I’m still using him as a barrel horse… but the difference is, I have control. I can run him down the length of the arena and say easy and he’ll slow to a lope without any other cues. So what did I do to get the change so fast?
First, CHECK FOR ULCERS! I know a lot of people don’t worry about them, but they are a HUGE problem in horses, especially performance horses. This study http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16189 shows that 60% of horses had ulcers, many of whom weren’t displaying any signs of discomfort. I’ve read somewhere else that it got up to 90% in performance horses and others that undergo extreme stressors like competition, but I can’t find that article. If I were a horse and my stomach had stabbing pain I would be a PITA. Just curing the ulcer will improve behavior so much you’ll want to do it to all your horses. It’s like a magic wand. The problem is, ulcer medication is really expensive. I decided to try the holistic approach and used apple-cider-vinegar, which has claimed to cure ulcers. I figured that since I’m going for holistic, I may as well go all the way… so I got the raw, pure, unfiltered, unaltered kind. Complete success. It’s only taken about two or three weeks, feeding 1/4 or 2 oz per day. I got a half gallon for about $35. The problem is, because this is acidic, you can’t feed it for very long. It’s like drinking soda for us, except horses can’t brush their teeth so it stays on a little longer. I would go for maybe 4 weeks max, then scope probably once a year to make sure it doesn’t come back.
Second, the usual, saddle fit, back pain, feet, etc. Make sure they don’t hurt when they work, or they will fight you.
And finally the training aspect…. your best friends are patience, consistency and a quick response. When I cue, I start with a voice command such as walk, trot, whoa, etc. If they don’t respond, I use escalating force, increasing in small increments but going as far as necessary to get the correct response. As soon as they give me a positive response, I release pressure immediately and praise. Lots of praise. If you ride 4 days per week like myself, you can get a soft horse pretty quickly. It took me about a month, though I had to address the two previously mentioned aspects first. My horse went from fighting me almost the whole time to giving sometimes and pulling the reins out of my hands other times, and eventually he learned to give to the bit every time I touched the reins. So now, when I use the reins he responds immediately and properly; but most the time I just use voice commands.
Hope my experience helps someone! It’s possible for everyone to get a soft, easily controlled horse!
Lack of control is not the rider having a problem with the horse, it’s the horse having a problem with the rider. Or as the late great Jack le Goff used to put it, “There is nothing wrong with that horse except the abscess on his back!”
The first and most important thing is to LEARN TO RIDE. In balance, with an independent seat & hands, a basic understanding of the aids, and some feel. My first instructor, one of the last US Cavalry School graduates, required us students to be able to stop our horses from any gait (on a plain snaffle) without making the horse open his mouth or change his head position. Only when we could do that were we allowed to even begin to ask for simple flexions–none of this put-’em-in-a-frame stuff! That’s not rocket science–I have pre-teen riding students who can do it very well. Any decent riding instructor will be glad to show you how.
I’ve seen so many, many bozos (too many who call themselves trainers) who have banged around on horses like a cave man for years and don’t think they have anything to learn. In their mind it’s all the horse’s fault that he won’t stop, throws his head, doesn’t turn, goes disunited, refuses a jump–so off they go in search of more hardware to coerce the horse more efficiently for the sake of “control.” And the horse can’t speak up and tell on them–if horses could talk, many people wouldn’t want to hear what they’d say!
Many horses have never been taught how to respond to bit pressure, and have spent their long sad career fighting the bit or evading it as best they can. This is a simple process if you teach it with a snaffle bit (using one rein at a time) and a little patience and repetition, and it’s so much easier if it’s taught BEFORE the horse is messed up! (Though it will also work to re-make the mouth of a horse that’s been ruined, or an ex-racehorse who’s learned to lean into the bit.) You can teach green horses to “give” to light, quiet bit pressure by first relaxing their mouth & jaw,then flexing slightly in the jaw, then in the poll, in the neck, and finally, shifting their weight back over their hocks. Each little “give” is instantly rewarded with release of pressure. If you “chunk it down” into small, simple requests and consistently reward each response, the horse quickly learns to respond properly to soft bit pressure. But the rider is always responsible for applying the rein aids correctly and with feeling and fairness.
I firmly believe in schooling in a plain snaffle, but I also know there are some horses and situations where a different bit is called for (and I’m not talking about adding more artillery any time the horse fails to understand.) I’d rather see a rider ride safely and handle a horse lightly in a kimberwicke, mild pelham or similar, than try to wrestle with a puller in a fat snaffle. For speed events where the adrenalin runs high, like foxhunting, jumpers, cross-country or polo, or for a little kid on a strong-necked pony, I see nothing wrong with using a bit that the horse respects enough to respond to–BUT the rider has a responsibility to use that bit without hurting or distressing the horse. And continued schooling in a snaffle is in order, too.
You and I are 100% on the same page. I just wish I could “convert” more people to our way of thinking. Stop blaming the horse and work on your riding. Sure it takes time. Sure it is tiring. But you will be so much happier if you learn to ride better and you will ENJOY riding so much more if you learn to ride better!
My aim was always to ride in a snaffle, however I was never going to allow myself to get into a pulling match with a horse, and since some of the ones I had thought that was “normal” I worked on finding a bit that they would listen to with my normal touch and teach them to work correctly off seat and legs (I don’t know how people can ride without using then correctly, but I was lucky and taught correctly from the beginning). As soon as I could I “down graded” the bit, and got all of them into a nice mild snaffle. Doing it that way took a lot of time however once I got them going to a level where I was comfortable taking them to beginner competitions they progressed much faster than the horses started at a similar time that had be “fixed with hardware”.
To OldGreyMare and Fhotd too, pretty soon we can form a quorum or some such. Riding basics, hours riding w/o stirrups on lunge line, hours of riding on the flat w/o stirrups, jumping grids w/o hands and/or stirrups, jumping gymastics, practice, practice, practice. Trying other disciplines–riding stock horses, w/p, trail, hunters/jumpers, eventing, dressage, endurance. Only things I’ve never done are driving and polo (but would have liked to). I used to tell the kids and adults I taught that if you want to learn this stuff, you must be prepared to work hard and eat a lot of crow (as well as dropped in the dirt now and then). Read the classics, drop your ego, and listen, watch, and learn.
liz
Well, come to Los Angeles sometime and I will put you on a polo pony!
AMEN to trying other disciplines.
I could NOT get my shoulders back and my back straight and go with the horse’s movement in the canter…for my entire life.
Then I spent a week on the trails western.
Came back cured. I don’t know HOW riding in a western saddle fixed the problem, but it did. It also made me comfortable enough that while my form no doubt utterly sucks, if somebody walked up to me with a horse in western tack and said ‘Let’s go riding’ I wouldn’t have ANY hesitation about saying ‘sure’. I’d love to try reining and see how it relates to dressage.
That said, I am still a dressage queen my true heart and core…I got true collection out of one of my trainer’s horses the other day…that is to say shorter stride with no loss of impulsion…and the grin didn’t vanish for days. That’s something only a dressage person fully understands, I think
.
Polo? Sure. I’d give it a try…but I think I’d want to borrow some elbow and knee protectors too
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My daughter has been paying far too much attention to the websites I frequent…
She brought this home from school today, and I had to share it…
The Life of a Horse
Horses run across the high hills
Trotting, galloping, running to the pasture
Their neighs are loud and shrill
All their footsteps, yes all four
Hit the ground steady and sure
They run quickly, their young at their side
They gallop, stride by stride
With the foals confused and wide-eyed
Sometimes their legs do get tangled
They fall on their backs
Their manes get all mangled
Yes this is what horses do
Run and play and gallop all day
But when they come in
The resting begins and end to the play
They fall asleep standing
But the foals lay right down of course
Wow what fun
Is the life of a horse.
YES, I will be getting her a horse one day, I’m not going to make her wait 31 years for a pony that never came on Christmas, lol.
(Mumbles and gumbles, you would think after I gave my mother an easy out and told her to get me a renewal for pony island… 138 ponies off kinds of fantasy breeds and every color of the rainbow, she would have. I mean what’s 23 dollars for a YEAR of ponies, even if they are pixel ponies. Yeah I am crabby because I STILL after 3 years of an easy out have YET to get a pony for Christmas from my mother).
Anyway, I had to share, because I know her reading over my shoulder is one of the things that prompted the poem…
A dressage trainer of mine a long time ago gave me a quote (I think she claimed was Klimke who said it), “Allow the horse to give you the gift of his freedom.” Think about that. Pretty profound stuff. That’s the way our calf roper friend has trained his horse to go so beautifully. Indeed in dressage you are taught to ride from your leg to your hand. Halts don’t come from hauling back on the reins–they should come from your seat riding into a momentarily fixed hand blocking forward movement. Half-halts are just this–a brief closing of hand while simultaneously the legs ask the horse to go forward; hence comes collection.
A really easy little way to play around with not using the bridle for stopping or slowing is (within the confined space of an arena/ring) is while your horse is walking warming up/cooling down is to drop your reins entirely on your horse’s neck and find out how much influence your seat and legs have over his/her movement. Try stopping with your seat (as in stopping the dynamic movement of your seat going with the horse) and see if you get some slowed steps. There’s lots of stuff you can do just at the walk that is transferable to the other gaits. Ala fugly, try influence your horse’s trot by slowing your posting. Pretty soon, with practice, you’ll find you do pretty amazing stuff just by thinking what you want–that’s when you’ll know/find that awesome place where you and your horse are truly in synch.
liz
FYI, anyone who wants to see lovely dressage riding, go to Youtube and search for Klimke. No matter what discipline you ride, you’ll appreciate what you’re seeing!
Pretty soon, with practice, you’ll find you do pretty amazing stuff just by thinking what you want–that’s when you’ll know/find that awesome place where you and your horse are truly in synch.
I use to think I couldn’t do 5 meter canter circles. I had my mind made up. I said, this is foolish, we can do these. Never looked back. I kept a convinced mindset we can do this. It wasn’t the horse, it was me. Once I was convinced it was easy, my horse did them effortlessly. I’m convinced canter Pirouette’s aren’t far behind (we’re almost there now).
One of my old trainers scolded me for cantering around the arena with my reins on my horses neck saying…”That’s not teaching him a thing.” sigh.
I have a “thing” about not asking for contact during their warm up…I know not everybody does this but I REALLY like to trot a horse for at least 10 minutes on a long rein and let them stretch out first. I think it totally decreases their resistance when you let them warm up first!
At the big dressage shows in Europe, if you cannot buy tickets for the show itself, you can buy tickets for warmup. A comment I’ve heard about the warmups both there and about Europeans who warm up their dressage horses here (at the World Cup, for example) is that they do a LOT of walking at first, “on the buckle.” Ten minutes or more of nothing but walking.
I too rankle when I see someone get the horse out of a stall, tack up, mount up and trot off. Maybe the horse is anxious to get going, but the rider is supposed to be aware of the importance of warmup, long and low (and SLOW — meaning at the walk).
An argument is that you can easily ruin a walk by schooling too much in it. To me, warmup and cooldown are NOT “schooling time.” It’s revving up, then “unrevving.” Where I “school” at home, I have a walk of between one and two miles to get back to the barn. A good thing. I don’t have to remind myself ;o)
Warm up, cool down, and breaks in between.
People need to hold this stance more often. I frequent the Yahoo! Answers boards, and for so, so many people if the horse starts bucking, tossing their head, not stopping, not turning fast enough, ect, the answer is never to actually train a horse- It’s always to get a harsher bit. And, of course, they are never riding in a simple snaffle or a Bosal to begin with. Even people who call themselves “trainers” are terrible- There is one at my barn (There are several at my barn, but I don’t ride with this one.) who does Jumpers. She has this big, young warmblood who really is not a psycho horse at all- He’s just young and honestly not the brightest bulb. He isn’t malicious or unridable in any way- But she likes to be one of those people who can make a horse stop when they say it or a little before, and so- In the indoor ring, because heaven forbid they ride in the open- she goes in an eggbutt gag. But if she thinks he’s being bad (Which I really never see evidence of) she sticks a Mikmar Swoop (Google it- Ew.) in there an jerks him around. Surprise, surprise, another horse of hers that got this method was basically ruined. Unfortunately, I bet this type of stuff isn’t that uncommon, and it’s a shame that people view it as acceptable.
As for myself- I have a 20 year old TB, yes, but he’s very hot. He was raced in NZ and has gone Intermediate level in the USA, and still clears 4′ easily. I do Eventing, and I have three different bits I use with him- They are all hard-rubber mullenmouths, simply because we’ve figured out that he hates jointed bits. Anyways, for Dressage I use a Loose-Ring, and then for the Jumping phases I either use a Kimberwick or a short shanked Pelham- I’ve been working with the Pelham with my trainer, but I’m not totally used to the double reins yet, so we are probably going to use the Kimberwick for the first show of the year. None of these are terribly severe, and the Pelham is milder than the curb in that I can ride on the “Snaffle” (Of course it isn’t truly a snaffle, as the curb chain is still in effect) rein most of the time. I’ve jumped in my Dressage bit, but I really do not think I could ride my horse in just a Halter and get anything done- We could go at all the gaits, but we wouldn’t be getting any good-quality Dressage work.
However, for a little success story, we picked up a Welsh X pony a few years ago from some people that were using her as a school pony. She was very hot, and basically pulled me around regardless of the fact that they had her in a thin Double Twisted Wire Gag- Of course, with single reins. She was a hot little pony, and still is, but we took her home and put her in a D-Ring snaffle. She’s better now, although she’s hardly perfect. What she needed was training- Not a harsher bit. I just wish that that was common knowledge- Ignorance about bits is too common.
Although that being said, what about Mechanical Hackamores? They are hardly the nastiest bits/bit alternatives out there, but I all too often see them slapped on hotter horses with total beginner riders who hang on the reins, but who see no wrong in it because, to them, any hackamore is more mild than any bit. But a Mechanical Hackamore can exert a pretty fair amount of pressure, even if it’s just on different spots. A girl I babysit had a POA who was completely unsuitable for her- She’s 7, and he was small horse sized and hot, known to buck. (The “trainer” sold them him. Shocker.) They had a Mechanical Hackamore on, and the child hung on the reins- Of course, they thought that when he curled his head to his chest from the pressure he was being a “fancy Dressage pony”. Now they sold that horse for a fancy little Hunter, but still- The Bosals are one thing, but I think the Mechanical Hackamores are often misunderstood.
I fostered a rescue horse for awhile that was trail sound. I didn’t think I had a bit to use on him, though he had come from the rescue having been ridden in a French link snaffle that was a 5″ bit (which I thought would be too small, but he had a narrow muzzle and a 5″ was actually a bit too large ;o)
Anyway, my vet suggested a mechanical hackamore and I HATE those things. I just don’t like the way they LOOK (and yeah, I’m the type who bets on the races picking horses because they are pretty or I like their silks or the horse has a funny name. My current fave for the upcoming Kentucky Derby is Ice Box. ’nuff said).
So I mentioned this to my shoer who said, very tactfully because we BOTH admire and respect the vet: “He’s a wonderful vet, but he is not a trainer. I think I’d use what the rescue gal used and go from there.”
As it turns out, the horse went VERY well in a French link — he was a former jumper and was in the big time but injured his ankle. He just loved being a “go bareback around the acre with me” kind of horse.
Ah, now THAT video is what true cowboy-horsemanship is like. Finally.
I once bought an OTTB that had already been through an uneducated teenager and then a woman who successfully put 20 days of training into him. He was a typical head-strong, hard-willed, and stubborn OTTB, but he was very smart and had a great heart. He was my first horse and I didn’t realize what an undertaking I had bought until it occurred to me after a few bad rides (one being an intro to trails). I stopped riding and spent the next 6 mo hoping that he’d forget his past and calm down enough to pay attention to me. For that long period of time, every moment spent with him I was teaching him something (on the ground) and bonding with him. I hand-walked him, hand-grazed him when I didn’t feel like doing anything else, worked with his feet, groomed and bathed him very regularly, walked him down trails, and basically just worked on ground manners. He began to listen to me and would pay attention to my moves. I got him to the point where I could walk around an arena without a rope on him and he’d follow me. He took big strides and little baby steps alongside me and would back up when I backed up.
After lunging quite a bit (in large circles, not much interfering with him) to help him find a steady, stable trot and canter, I first began riding him in a halter, bareback. I worked with him from my seat, using the “reins” as little as possible. I wasn’t an experienced trainer, but I trained him the best I could mainly by listening to him and reacting effectively. We progressed to a Dr. Somebody’s bitless bridle (can’t remember the guy’s name, but I love that bridle!) and I introduced the english saddle to him again. He responded positively the whole time and he rode wonderfully with the bitless bridle and my saddle (which I bought after trying 4 others on him already). I avoided yanking on his mouth and rode mainly from the seat and legs. He got to the point where I barely needed to touch his face to get him to move his body a certain way. He could do half-passes and had great flexibility for bending. I introduced the snaffle bridle when I decided that I needed to sell him and since he was meant for the show ring, I figured I’d at least be the one to work with him in a bridle early on. I then started asking for him to collect more and without ANY gadgets other than reins, got him going into a frame which he began to very willingly hold on the 2nd day. I only had to wait for his muscles to properly form to get him to carry himself in a frame with just a slight request from me. On the first day that my riding assistant asked him for lead changes, he got them (about 85% of the time). And everyday he was touched, good ground manners were reinforced and the day was ended on a good note, even if I had to find a good ending note. He is now showing on the hunter circuit and is an excellent jumper with great form and athleticism. And he’s still in a snaffle and is as sound and healthy as can be.
I am very proud with what I accomplished with that horse and am a firm believer that most gadgetry used today is not necessary. I feel that it has become the norm to replace patience and understanding with training gadgets.
Dr. Cook.
My first horse was a big lick trained TWH mare. They rode her in a super long shank with twisted wire bit. She was a confirmed runnaway with no breaks, and at any mouth contact her head would go straight up and she would rear. She also could do a 90 degree turn at full gallop, and rollbacks like a reining horse. First 3 years I owned her I got dumped every ride. Took me years to re-train her, but eventually she was going nicely in a full cheek snaffle. She still had a lot of go, one of those fearless horses that will go anywhere and do anything, into her 20′s.
I rode her in the DC Cherry Blossom parade one year, and I had a spectator comment on my ‘Beautiful Stallion’ LOL! she has a lot of presence!
My first time bridleless and bareback was so fun.
I had turned my horse loose in the arena to let him run around, play, roll, etc. I was chasing him a little (he gets very playful and full of him self when loose, it’s pretty funny).
After a little while I realized my phone was no longer in my pocket. So I spent a good 20-30 minutes walking around and around the very large and very fluffy arena looking for my phone. I got really sick of walking, and figured I’d have a better vantage point if I was riding. So I grabbed Peanut and hopped on. Not bridle, no saddle. He has his halter on, but there was no lead rope so it’s not like I could interfere with his face at all.
He was perfect and listened to me so well! I forgot about my phone for a while and just focused on how wonderful he was being. I was shocked, to say the least. After a very long time, I gave up on finding my phone.
So I hopped off and went out to my car… and the stupid phone was sitting in the driver’s seat.
Peanut is my barrel horse and I had previously been riding him in a Wonder Bit (NOT twisted wire, I hate that stuff). About a week ago I took my bridle home to clean it. I’m a huge procrastinator so it’s still sitting in my room waiting to be cleaned. But since it hasn’t been at the barn, I’ve been riding in a copper eggbutt snaffle, the same bit Peanut was broke and trained in. He’s been responding wonderfully in it and I have the exact same amount of control as I do with a Wonder Bit, curb, or ported bit. We’re still getting used to not having any leverage, but for the most part, he responds just the same. I even took him through a barrel run and a few other patterns and he did great! His stop is just fine in a snaffle and his turns are actually a little better (i think it’s because the snaffle offers simpler communication). So we’re going to stick with the snaffle for a while
Barrel racing is notorious for ridiculous bits. So i’m here to prove that with correct and consitant training, even a barrel horse can go in a snaffle.
I agree! I also barrel race, and I use a medium port short shanked bit. Most of the time I practice in a D-ring snaffle. I just might start competing in it, not sure though. But I race against people who use gags, and their seats are not always independent.
Foxfield Riding School in Westlake Village has a drill team that rides without bridles and saddles. I ride with these girls and they will casually ride in lessons, jumping with only a wire. They are amazing to watch!
http://www.foxfield.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRliQMf5e6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sji4mQItr4Y
First of all, regarding the cowboy on the brideless roping horse: As he remounts his horse after tying the calf, he lightly taps or pats the horse on the croup. I don’t know if he even thought about it, if it was a cue… but it was the sort of casual affection that would make me send that man a colt to train any day of the week. Yes, he was out of his horse’s face, but he could have draped a big old ugly bit on his horse, and I bet the performance would have been just as lovely.
Regarding the crazy Myler bit on the poor hunter horse in the picture: if you aren’t rider enough to ride with double reins, you aren’t rider enough to put something that complicated on a horse and ride it. Bit converters are a sin where I come from– either you have the right bit and rider for a horse, or you GET the right bit and rider.
I think more important than the head gear those two horses are (or in the roper’s case, Aren’t) wearing is the two riders on their backs. Cowboy could have slapped that crazy silly myler bit on his horse, and competed just fine. His horse would have been just as relaxed, and his ride would have been just as polished. KrazyHuntR rider could have been riding in a bitless bridle, and it still would have been a disaster– we have no seat in evidence, hands that are about a foot too high, balance too far forward, feet braced in the stirrups… I could go on and on. I’m just praying she is an owner, and not being trained by someone. I would hate to think a trainer allowed her to canter that horse, let alone jump it.
Good riding is good riding, and it transverses bits and bridles. I should be able to hang something suitably ugly (let’s say, a lifesaver bit or California pleasure bit) on the head of my quiet broke horse and go out and compete with no discomfort to my horse. I wouldn’t, because one good trip can mean the end of your horse’s tongue or roof in those particular bits, but you get the idea. There are certain standard understood rules regarding bits– avoid leverage bits when jumping, don’t use thick or single jointed bits with certain gaited horses, lighter is always better– but it really comes down to riding and training.
The same story is visible in all of the accounts the people here have given.
1. Horse was rushed, didn’t learn about the bit, became unmanageable
2. Horse was put in more pain, in an effort to ‘smarten him up’ or ‘make him listen’
3. Horse gets worse and worse.
4. New owner or rider goes, “Holy crap, I’m riding a Ferrari with bad tie rods and cut brake lines!”.
5. New rider gets OUT of horse’s face, changes headgear to something less terrifying, and says, “Hey horse, let’s go for a walk and talk about things.”
6. Horse says (with disbelief), “You mean like.. just walk? And… talk? Really?!”
7. Horse adds with a big sigh, “Thank you.. I’ve been wanting to walk and talk for Months now…. Where have you been all my life?”
The end result– The horse learns, maybe for the first time ever, that the rider really doesn’t need to jump a perfect course RIGHT NOW, or turn the fastest can RIGHT NOW, or slide the best stop RIGHT NOW, or complete tempe twos at a canter RIGHT NOW. The horse learns that this rider is going to wait, maybe for a long long time, while the horse works to figure out what the rider wants.
It isn’t about the bit. It never was. It’s about teaching a horse that you are forgiving, patient, and listening.
Yeah…someday I’m going to write the world’s shortest training book. It’s going to say:
Having a problem with your horse?
1. Call the vet
2. Take some riding lessons from someone whose training horses look happy when they are ridden, and whose lesson students are having fun at horseshows. Any discipline or breed will do. Doesn’t really matter. Good riding is good riding.
3. Learn patience yourself
When it gets down to it, those 3 things will fix any problem on any horse with the very rare exception of those horses who truly have a screw loose, i.e. the ones that turn out to have a brain tumor, or a horse who has been so severely abused he will never return to riding abuse (but I think that is rare indeed).
I question the advice to run out and leave off the martingale, in case people interpret an experiment leaving it off in the round pen to translate to you they shouldn’t use it at all. I’ve watched too many hunter-jumper versions of horse whisper type trainers convince riders that their martingale was mean and controlling and the amazing new improved natural type horsemanship has cured the need for it. Then I’ve watched those riders get bloody noses and frightened and hurt when something unexpected happens — the horse spooks at a cat in the arena. A properly fitted martingale can be a safety device too. I was schooling a darling sweet gentle, green mare in a loose-ring snaffle one day. I asked her for the canter, she slipped a little as she picked it up, flung up her head to balance herself and I found myself spitting pieces of tooth into my hand. Now, no longer green she wears still a martingale fitted so she can toss up her head if she does need to for some reason, but not into her timid rider’s face!
My OTTB has a funky mouth — supersensitive, but he would run through your hands like a freight train if you let him. He HATES French snaffles, hates regular snaffles, and hates the pressure on his head from bitless bridles. He adores a very thin mullen mouth D-ring. Hates the wider Happy mouth. He likes a bit that moves very little in his mouth and isn’t wide. It goes against everything *I* thought was kind in a bit (a wide gentle French link), but I can jump him around happily at 3’6″ -3’9″ in the mullen or in a Myler triple barrel which he likes even better (not legal in dressage though, and we event). In his case part of it is remembering as a TB, he’s hair trigger. But that same lean forward that makes him zoom, translates to a sit tall that makes him come back and that’s the key to the freight-train-free ride for him! He likes the comfort of contact but if you pull on his mouth, he’ll give you a run for your money. Conversely, drop the contact and he loses confidence. LIght leg and light hand and he’s butter. Kick and pull and well, that could get way ugly!
Oh, I don’t think martingales are the devil. I particularly like running martingales and training forks (I have one of those old surgical tubing ones that I think is awesome because it has so much give that it’s a SUGGESTION, not a weapon) on high-headed horses. However, if you’re getting a neck in the nose during flat work, and not over a jump, you’re leaning forward to begin with. Their necks aren’t double jointed, they can’t get their ears behind their withers to whack you in the face.
Re: martingales. I hear a lot of people with no martingale complain about riding dangerous flippers. It’s a heck of a lot harder to go up and flip with a martingale. Twenty years ago, almost every show hunter wore a standing martingale over fences. Now they don’t, and suddenly it seems like there’s an epidemic of rearing flippers. Hmm.
If I’m doing something like cross country, I want the horse to be able to use his head to bail himself out. But if he’s in an arena with a low-level rider, I want his head in a predictable location. I once put my (completely inexperienced) husband on the old hunter mare I rode as a child, who is half Percheron and generally moseys around with her eyes half lidded and her lip hanging. She was stung by a bee, head went up, and she broke his jaw!
The other thing that a well adjusted running martingale can do is actually protect the horses mouth when jumping. I alwayys used one when eventing as if something goes wrong and the rider gets thrown off balance the martingale can come into play and lessn the impact of the hands going somewhere that they normally wouldn’t. Its a really usefull protective device for less experienced riders when riding drop fences too… I’ve seen so many normally well seated riders have things get slightly messed up on drops.
Martingales are not a problem. I do prefer to train a horse so it WILL go happily without one, but they’re a training aid I think is fair to use.
POORLY fitted martingales are the problem. The top of the loop for a standing and rings for a running should touch the throat where head meets neck when the horse stands normally. Any tighter than that, and it is interfering with the horse’s ability to move its head with its stride…the martingale should *only* come into play if the horse tries to put its ears in your mouth. Or rear.
And don’t jump in a standing martingale, as that also interferes with the horse’s ability to drop its head. They have to lower their head to assess the height of the jump…a standing martingale prevents them from judging their takeoff point correctly.
Indeed I think that’s the problem — most green riders will default to leaning a little too far forward, in prime nose-to-neck smacking position! That’s why a properly fitted martingale can be a good tool. But I think the thread that’s underlying this thread — Myler bits, tools of all sorts — is that when used properly a lot of these things are great tools, when used ignorantly or with cruelty it’s another story entirely. A properly fitted martingale can be a safety or training device, but a wrongly fitted one is needless punishment. Anyway I didn’t think you were saying (FOTD) that martingales were the devil, I was more concerned at the tendency of others take take “try without a martingale” and translate it themselves into “it’s an ugly device no one should use!”
Martingales are fine when used by experienced, knowledgeable people. I have a horse that could use a martingale, and one that might benefit from spurs. However, I won’t use them. I wont’ use them because I have no trainer to tell me how to use it correctly (not using it as a crutch), and I have no previous knowledge of them. Should I use a training device, without the proper knowledge, it could quickly become a ‘crutch’, and I wouldn’t be able to ride my morab without a martingale, or my 4 y/o paint without spurs. So, I choose to go the extra-long way around, groundwork, groundwork, and one-rein stops.
So, in the right hands martingales can be good. In the wrong hands, well, why don’t you just let your horse throw his head every one in a while. 
I don’t usually comment, but just had to today
but it was worth it.
When I was 15 I fell in love with a Welsh Cob/Tb mare, who was at the time being ridden in a german martingale and a twisted D snaffle with a flash. Before riding, I was instructed to lunge her for 15-20 minutes with side-reins on her. She was very spooky (mostly to noise, not sights) and an extreme bolter. For a while you could not adjudst the stirrups or girth without her taking off. Once I was taking my glove off while riding and that set her off. Bolts became a thing to be expected, but when she was calm and listening to me (hehe) she was goooooddd! We did XC all summer, which she adored. Bolting stopped scaring me, and I learned how to read her before she would go.
After working/riding with her for over a year, the martingale was off, the twisted D was replaced with a rubber snaffle, and I no longer had to lunge before I got on. As she got fit and learned how to go round, her bolting started to go away.
Learning how to just get out of her face with the bit was a major thing, and how to ride with your seat and a loose rein worked wonders for me (and her). It was hard because instinct was telling me I was going to die
This mare is so special to me, so when I read todays post I had to mention her. We learned alot together
I suppose since it’s after the deadline, it’s too late for this handsome sweetie. What a shame. Please update if anyone heard he was spared from his ride on the truck.
http://www.horseclicks.com/horses/kf3kh8/
Hi Fugly,
A horse can be reliable and still have a mind of it’s own and still have self initiative. For example, a cutting horse has self initiative. For me riding a horse is a partnership between the horse and I with me as the senior partner. They are not my employees. Next week I will be 46 and some years ago I decided that I would no longer get on the types of horse that I don’t like. That is mainly super quiet horses with no self initiative. Life is too short to be that bored. That said my horses must do as they are asked for the safety of both of us. Part of doing what is expected includes saving my bacon with their self initiative if I stuff up. A horse who never does anything that it is not told cannot do that. There is a huge difference in riding a horse who is keen on their job and a horse who just does it because they must and they are quiet. The former is so much more enjoyable and the latter is a drudge. May I never, ever get on one of those drudges again! Ugh!!!!
Heh, well, I’m turning 43 this summer and I do not have ANY desire to ride horses who want to make the decisions anymore. I like sweet, compliant horses who are willing to ask me for guidance. Extra credit if they are not dumb enough to spook at their own shadow following them down the wall (my first horse did that). They don’t have to be plugs – I still like a horse with a motor – but I don’t mind if their work ethic is the same as mine, namely, I work because I want to get paid, so if they work because they want carrots, massages and love, we understand each other just fine.
Fortunately for horses, different people like different things so there is someone for everyone!
For this sort of issue, I remouth a horse completely using the John O’Leary system. Works fabulously and end of bolting problem! Back into nice mild bits and able to be ridden normally with just the odd reminder here and there.
http://www.horseproblems.com.au
Saw something simular to Fugs blog pics today, on a bolting pony – teen rider sawing at his mouth… they were trying to sell him to me as a kiddies mount. I offered lower $ in respect of his multiple health and riding issues and the amount of work required to fix him but nope they want their extravagant price.
Teaching my horses to go, stop, turn, back up, etc. off my seat opened up a whole new world of uses for the reins, the most powerful of which has been shaping the body. I wonder if horsemanship really starts when we stop using the reins for “control,” and begin to introduce the horse to the idea that the rider’s body is worth listening to…no small task.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnE6-Yw9CyM&feature=channel
awful quality video, and I have to ignore the no helmet, but this is a successful Grand Prix SJ pony. They did a bareback jumping demo at the Horse of the Year Show, after becoming Pony of the Year… love the relaxed attitude..
http://www.showtymhorses.co.nz/pages/news.html
Rule #1: It takes two to pull.
This is so interesting and timely for me! I’ve been riding for twenty five or so of my twenty nine years, and I was always one of those “you ride it in a snaffle or you can’t ride it” people. Let’s be honest and call me a SNOB, because that’s what I was. I rode mostly OTTBs and what Cathy is talking about is exactly right. You trot the edge off, you circle, etc.
I still agree that 99.9% of the time, if you can’t ride your horse in a snaffle, you need to improve your riding.
BUT (there’s always a but, isn’t there?) you live and learn and there’s always an exception to the rule.
I have a warmblood now who can just be a bully, plain and simple. I think he probably should have been encouraged to be soft and giving a LOT more when he was getting started, but he got away with bullying, so now he has a tendency to bully. I struggled with him for nearly a year. I ruled out all medical/dental/chiropractic/you-name-it problems. I started riding with a new trainer, who is accomplished and who I very much respect. I love the way he rides, I’ve been extremely impressed with how he’s started the other babies he works with. I adore the work he has done with his own horses. And the first time he got on my horse, the horse had a total bucking, spinning, temper tantrum and the trainer said, “I don’t know how you stay on.”
So…almost a year later, and a pelham later, and a martingale later, I have a lovely horse that I can hack out in a D-ring but still jump in a pelham at shows (he’s a work in progress).
I guess what I’m saying is that I totally agree with the original post, but that sometimes IF you have worked hard on your riding and you are very experienced, SOMETIMES it really is an attitude issue and you shouldn’t be afraid to experiment a little. I wish I had done this earlier! AND no matter how much experience you have, how many ribbons and points and money and titles you’ve won, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for an excellent, experienced trainer!
Yes – and the person with the draft had a point too. There are some big, bully horses that do need a little more bit. But still, you stepped up to a pelham – perfectly reasonable step-up and I’ll bet you’re riding properly with 2 reins on it, too.
I don’t have a problem with other bits – I just think that on pretty much any horse, you’ll only benefit if you try to hack in a lot less bit, or no bit, and any rider becomes a better rider when they force themselves to practice regulating speed and direction with their seat and legs instead of their hands.
I mentioned a while back watching Richard Spooner jump…the man DOES NOT ride off his hands. It was really amazing to watch. His Grand Prix jumpers were SO quiet and adjustable and it wasn’t that they were deadheads…but they weren’t freaked out. They weren’t being pulled on. I just can’t tell you what a pleasure it was to watch that man ride. It was all so quiet and controlled and beautiful, as opposed to some of the other competitors who were terrific athletes but were hauling their horses around a course by the seat of their pants and very much on the reins desperately trying to maintain control as the horses got stronger and stronger.
Please don’t get me started on those pelham converter things. When I make the rules, we will round them all up and set them on fire. Ugh.
The Pelham has completely amazed me, because after the initial temper tantrum, all I have had to do is ride on the snaffle rein and occasionally wiggle the curb (Just to say, “Dude, I’m so serious here.”) It’s magic for this horse. But it’s not magic for every horse. We’re just lucky we found the right tack, the right ride, etc…lots of things came together.
I know a lot of people have trouble with their horses because they just plain need to ride better or get fitter or spend more hours in the tack, but it doesn’t matter how well you ride, how much money you’ve won, etc. No one’s off the hook because she’s fit and successful at shows. You can always learn something, you can always do it better, and there’s always something you could try or change that’s new.
I spend a lot of time gripping my forehead over how dumb I was about this horse. I used to be so proud of how I could ride anything softly, but that’s not the ride my horse needs now. He needs a little seat, and a little hand. I just had to be humble enough to realize I needed to change.
So this has nothing to do about todays blog but, I was watching HLN just now and they are talking about how over breeding is leading to too many deaths to horse slaughter..here is the url if you want to post a blog about it. I couldn’t find the video I just watched but I went to the website and found the story.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/30/velez.mitchell.horse/index.html?iref=allsearch
Jane Velez-Mitchell is just the Queen of Awesome when it comes to animal issues, and I’m so thrilled she’s covering this. Did I ever tell you guys she once interviewed me on public access TV in Los Angeles about horse slaughter, and we put the slaughter footage on TV? I think it would have been in 2005.
If you haven’t already, join her Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/JaneVelezMitchellHLN?ref=ts
I acquired a freebie off track TB mare a few years ago. They had been using her as a broodmare, she had one foal and would continually abort or not catch at all so they finally gave up on her and told me to take her for free. I was told right off the hop by the barn staff she could be tricky to catch, and she was 8 years old. That is all I was told.
I got on her in the round pen in a western saddle (this mare hadn’t raced since she was 3, so she hadn’t been ridden in 5 years and I know she’d never gone western). No problems so I took her out of the pen and rode her around the farm. No problems so I took her to the track on that farm. Again, no problems. She was actually very nice to ride.
I told my boss about how the owner gave her to me, and he said was “do yourself a favor and shoot the bitch”. Turns out she was “broke”, and then sent to the track where she tried to kill numerous riders and was then sent to be re-broke. She was then sent back to the track where they could not find anyone to get on her because of her rep. They did end up finding someone to ride her, but she was so “crazy” the owners and trainer got frustrated trying to get riders for her they gave up on her after only 3 starts. Apparently she earned her name which is “Lethal Lily”
I never had a single problem with that mare. She turned out to be an absolutely BEAUTIFUL jumper and I ended up selling her to a lower intermediate rider in her early teens who is currently doing pony club or 4H or something like that with her. She has had her for 2 years now and still loves her to bits and she has not had a single problem with her either.
I’m sorry, but this does not look like a crazy horse to me!
Thoroughbred mares sometimes have to suffer through people who are not as smart as they are before they find some people who are, and therefore understand them.
I think she just got track sour. The girl that re broke her I would trust with any horse of mine and she didn’t have any problems with Lily at the farm. She did try to gallop her at the track after re-breaking her and Lily took off with her for 4 rounds (unlike everyone else who she just dumped and then went after)
I would imagine some idiot tried to fight with her and really pissed her off when she first went to the track and she just associated it with the track. Also everyone that got on her knew her rep as a psycho which didn’t help any. I was the first person to get on the horse in a very long time that didn’t know about her being “crazy” and I’ll bet that made a huge difference.
The guy that gave her to me and the guy I was working for STILL don’t believe me when I tell them how good of a horse she’s been for this (15-16?) yr old girl. I’ll take more “crazy” horses from that guy any day!
She’s a very happy girl now!
I ride everyone bitless and these days in a bareback pad for my back. Arabs, OTTBs, ponies, Percherons, horses with whoa issues, horses with go issues I love them. I always start a horse bitless and in the round pen becuase it’s less scary then something gagging their mouth, and while their learning if anything happens my butt is protected because they can’t go far in a round pen. I use mainly my leg and seat for riding and will go bridless all together with a few horses, I used to have a horse I jumped courses with in just a rope around his neck. The only guy I won’t ride bridless in anything more then a roundpen is my main man because he spooks at EVERYTHING, a goose flew over us yesterday and it’s shadow almost ate him =)
I love to teach beginers with bitless too because they tend to have the whole fetal position and death grip thing going on for the first few rides until they get settled, and my horses hate me less when I just put a bouncy person on them as opposed to bouncy and pulling on their face person.
BUT anything is still harmful in the wrong hands and I remember that. I also will use a bit when finishing a horse and then go back to the bitless once they have the subtle cues down that are a little more difficult to do without a bit. My favorite bit is a nice fat eggbutt with a copper oval link snaffle.
I was just at a talk given by one of the Myler brothers this past weekend, and although when seeing those bits in the stores I thought they looked like some terrible gimicky thing (hell Parelli even has a bit similar to this through Myler lol), after it was explained to me how these bits work I actually see a lot of value in these. Instead of all of our hand pressure going straight to the horse’s tongue (the most sensitive of all pressure points), it is distributed over many spots – the nose, the jaw, the poll and the tongue/bars. And yes as someone who starts colts in either a straight sidepull, or a sidepull/bit combination, I can see how this would be a wonderful bit to start colts in, as it works in a far better and more comfortable way than the snaffle in my sidepull. Also although it may look like a big leverage bit, if you notice the length of the purchase this in fact is a non-leverage bit because the shank is not longer than the purchase. So this is the reason these types of bits can actually be less offensive to horses learning to accept a bit, and also for people who tend to use their hands a bit too much. Of course as the Myler’s state ‘no bit will make up for training’. I suspect that this horse pictured has not been properly trained to give to the bit (and/or the rider has no clue), or it may have some major pain issues from teeth (which I suspect using this type of bit that pulls the nose and jaw would be quite painful if pulled against some sharp points)….anyways keep up the good stuff fugly, just thought I’d provide the other side of the story
I bought a myler bit for one of my lead pony’s a few years ago. I then went out and bought a myler for each of my horses and I haven’t used anything else since. There was a HUGE difference in the way they went in those bits. They responded to the bits WAY better and relaxed and seemed way more comfortable in them. The bit I had before was the exact same bit but obviously not the same brand. The difference between the $40 bit and the $120 bit that looks exactly the same IS worth the extra $80
I agree, as a trainer myself and with an equine dentist as a friend I am a real supporter of the myler bits…even this one that looks real ‘gadgety’. There was a lot of thought put into their bit design, and this one was NOT intended as some big scary thing you put on a horse to intimidate it.
I forgot to say in my earlier post – I’ve been riding Woody tack-free for over 5 years now, even gone bridleless on trail. Patience, technique, and consistent riding all make for success, not stupid gadgets.
My gelding was a 5 figure horse as a four year old, but a trainer’s ego turned him into a $5000 Amish bound 5 year old.
His work setup was always a mule bit, spiked noseband and tongue tie, and there were times he would lock up so bad on it that he would ahve a bloody mouth heading back to the stall.
When he came to be with me, we basically restarted him. Smooth snaffle, and a loose plain cavesson or no cavesson at all.
His show bridle used to be a notched snaffle (yes…square notches cut out of the mouth side of a smooth snaffle. OUCH. and a medium port curb with as tight a curb chain as you can put on.
He now wears a mullen overcheck bit as his snaffle, and a medium port curb with the bars and the curb chain wrapped in sealtex. His work bridle is a chain mouthpiece wrapped in sealtex- It’s as mild as we can go and still ahve the flexible mouthpiece that he likes in something that isn’t too thick. His headset has never been better.
He spooks on occasion, but I am actually glad to have less bit on him at these times, because having too much bridle on him escalates things, rather than helping me get him stopped, it just gets him even more upside down and freaked. I’d rather have a bridle I can take hold of and be able to communicate instead of having him get more hollow and not be able to regroup. worked up because I’ve pulled on a strong bridle.
I loved that video and went searching to find more about “Texaco” whose registered name is Real Cool Dual. Here is a part of his amazing story:
The American Quarter Horse Real Cool Dual, a son of cutting sensation Dual Pep, had a reputation before he even began cutting competition. “Someone offered his owner, Bob Scott, $200,000 for him before the (National Cutting Horse Association) cutting futurity,” says Brazile. “Bob turned it down and in the futurity, the horse ran off and refused to cut.”
Scott gelded the horse and gave him to Trevor to train for calf roping.
“When I got him, he didn’t trust anybody,” Trevor says. “He would kick when you dismounted, he would kick when you tried to put boots on him and he was scared of cattle. When he saw a calf loaded in the chute, he’d break out into a sweat. He’s been the biggest challenge I’ve ever worked with.”
Today, “Texaco” is helping Brazile rack up big bucks in calf roping. In November Texaco was named the horse of the finals at the Jack Daniel’s Amarillo Calf Roping in Amarillo, Texas. AQHA sponsored the contest exclusively for American Quarter Horses competing in the roping.
“He can score really well,” Trevor says. “And for being such a small horse – he’s only 13.3 hands – he can really fly. He’s always right on the calf. I call him Texaco, because he’s my own little oil well.”
I think that this information makes that bridleless calf roping even more amazing!
I DON’T: have a problem with bits
I DO: have a problem with handsey riders, whether the bit is harsh or not.
I DON’T: have a problem with a harsher bit being used in certain scenarios, such as taking a green and unpredictable horse trail riding out in the open for the first time, or taking a known bolter out for a hack.
I DO: have a problem with harsher bits being used *in place of* appropriate training, being used without proper education on how to use them, or being used with a very heavy handed rider.
And when I say “harsh bit” I mean like a smooth metal pelham or kimberwick– none of that crazy harsh stuff we’ve seen listed here.
Personally, I typically ride in a loose ring snaffle. Depending on what works best for each horse, my two go-to bits are either a plain 2 pc loose ring, or a 3 pc oval mouth loose ring. I do also have a pelham on store somewhere for the scenarios I listed above. However, when I ride in it, I ride on the snaffle rein only, and generally a long rein, and the curb is only there for safety reasons.
I’ve already bragged here on my little Arabian, Lexie. She was finally broke to ride in about four minutes last spring by two clever high-school girls, at age 13. She took to being ridden as if saying, “It’s about time somebody around here gave me a damned job!!” But she absolutely refused to wear a bit. Hated, hated, hated it – and this from a horse that every time you pull something new on her, says, “WTF!! Oh, okay,” and is fine with whatever it is forever after. Including packs of deer hurtling out of the woods and through the training ring almost on top of her at about a thousand miles per hour.
So I finally bought her a cute little bitless bridle. She looked at it skeptically, but as soon as it was on her head, she was like, “Well, you idiots, that’s a whole lot more like it.” After ten minutes of Lexie in this bridle, I was sure I could grab a bedroll and a bottle of water and ride to California without any surprises at all.
She’s just like that.
I love this video! Thanks for posting this. It seems like riders get a false sense of security from a bit. I ride my coming 3 year old in a rope halter (natural hackamore), even on trail. He’s never had a bit and I haven’t decided if/when I’m going to put a bit on him. I rode his mom in three limited distance endurance rides with the Bitless Bridle.
LOVE the video thank you! Thank you for the reminder too about bits…. I have an OTTB and well he’s in a d-ring which is what he had on the track, he likes it and that’s about all he needs. I don’t think I would ever spend my money on those contraptions, I don’t own martingales, my draw reins (that were given to me) have been converted into dog leashes….
This is very timely, as just last night I went to a free demo sponsored by Purina featuring Mark Lyon. (the extreme mustang makeover guy) I figured hey, free food and if nothing else I’ll learn what NOT to do if he’s awful. I was pleasantly surprised. Since it was purina in charge, they of course talked about graining and which kinds for which horses, but they also emphasized body scoring, even handed out pamphlets showing what to look for. They mentioned they were at a racetrack earlier and encouraged them to stop feeding 10 lbs (!) of sweet feed a day and still wind up with overly skinny horses and instead focus on nutrition.
The part where I was impressed though was when a woman who owned a Tennessee Walker gave a short ride, showing some of his issues. He wouldn’t stand still to be mounted, walked off, was a bit spooky, had his head sky-high evading the bit. Mark did some ground work with him (of course the TW tried walking all over/barge past him) getting control of the feet first showing that he was in charge, not the horse. The thing is, after working with him a bit so he softened up and listened, he commented to the owner that she had been using a tom thumb bit and this horse wasn’t ready for it. He should instead be in a snaffle until he’s learned to listen to you while riding that. His reasoning is that for one thing, he can feel the exact amount of pressure he’s putting on a horse’s mouth in a snaffle, while with a shanked bit the leverage is putting far more pressure than you feel in your hands. He pointed out that putting a harsher bit in a horse’s mouth isn’t making the horse softer, it’s just cracking down on them harder, which doesn’t really teach them to listen to YOU, just the bit.
I used to ride when I was a teenager with a girl the same age as me, who was destroying her very sweet horse. This girl and her mother were absolute lunatics and were the poster children for a wikipedia article on “delusions of grandeur”. Her horse was a lovely, well bred 10 yr old QH gelding named Brother. Brother came from one of the best QH breeders in Ontario and had great pro training and a good show record on him when they got their claws on him. His only fault, if anything, was that being the quiet, unassuming gelding that he was, he was a little nervous.
This girl was a yahoo. The kind who sees some big name of the week doing something, things, “hey, I could do that” and tries it on her own, ignores her coach and other riders on the show team and at the barn, and gets herself and her horse into a whole mess of trouble.
She is not a quiet rider by any stretch of the word, and with a sensitive horse, Brother initial just started speeding up a little. Of course, this panicked our “amazingly talented” rider, and she would clamp down, and scream bloody murder. This only panicked him more, so he began to bolt. The problem only got worse when against the advice of our coach, she upgraded his bit to something I called “the anchor”. It was twisted, chain, curb chain etc. Now the bolting started to occur because with her heavy hands and that bit in the already sensitive horse’s mouth, he was trying to run for the hills (or back to his former swanky barn).
Luckily for poor Brother, his owner went on vacation, and asked me to exercise him while she was gone. I jumped at the chance, because I thought here was my chance to help the poor little guy out. First thing I did was ride him in a rubber covered D bit. When he bolted (because it was habit now, pre-emptive bolting), I didn’t panic, flap my arms, scream, cry, yank the heck out of his mouth. I just rode quietly and steered him in a large circle around the outdoor ring. Eventually, he tentatively slowed down, and then finally stopped on his own. I gave him a pat, cooled him out, let him eat some treats and put him away. We did this everyday for a week and by the end of the week, no more bolting. At all. Even when I made my aids a little more forceful instead of riding as quietly as I normally do.
Owner came back and was amazed. Of course, with everything revolving around this girl, this only made things worse. It gave her a sense of confidence, and she started riding bolder. With her being a yahoo at heart, this wasn’t a good thing. Next thing Brother learned to try and escape the lunatic on his back was bucking. When she got too afraid to ride him again, she came to me.
I knew the bucking was because of her over used aids, the monster bit that was back in his mouth, and the fact that she was noisy when she rode, loud talking, sudden bursts of loud, shrill laughter, screaming at her mother etc. To their horror (they begged me not to risk it) I clipped a set of reins to the halter, and got on him bareback in the indoor arena. And rode him walk, trot canter and over cross rails with no drama. No bucking, No bolting, nothing.
Shortly after that, they left for another barn, because they believed it was the coach who was holding them back (you know, the one who taught ME how to ride). I am sure nothing good ever became of that poor little horse. If anyone from Ontario or the surrounding area knows what became of Triple Boogie, a 1988 QH bay gelding, white star and snip (if memory serves correctly, it has been almost 10 years since I saw him) around 15.2hh, with a CF brand and and an 88 brand, I’d love to hear about him.
Papers haven’t been transferred since 1997.
Then I’ll assume the worst, since I know she sold him at one point (after wrecking his legs trying to jump 4 feet from a western jog on a horse who wasn’t conditioned properly, I know, I was there and saw the horror for myself) and has since moved on to terrorizing another horse.
The fact that he went without papers (she bought him in 1997, shortly after I bought my QH) can’t be good, especially since he had issues of the legs and mind.
Thanks for checking though.
It sucks so much when bad people happen to good horses.
There is a lady who part boards one of my horses. She is a complete beginner who is working with a trainer to learn about horses and comes by my stable to build upon what she’s learned. A couple of weeks ago she was hanging out watching me do some ground work with my mare. We got into a discussion on English versus western techniques when it comes to training (her trainer is western, I adapt to the horse I’m riding but prefer dressage). She was telling me that her trainer told her “how to pull the reins to make a horse go” and how English horses’ mouths are harder than western so you have to pull more . (Mind boggling how the “trainer” is passing on this nonsense.) I hopped on my mare bareback tying the lead to her halter as reins and proceeded to ride her using only my seat and legs. My part boarder was stunned that my mare changes directions, gaits, stopped, started and pivoted without me touching the “reins”. She had never heard of a horse being ridden without a bit or someone pulling on it’s mouth.
I think part of the harsh bit obcession is that a lot of people don’t realize that the horse would benefit more from extra training than extra leverage. Trainers and coaches preach buying harder bits, spurs, gadgets because that is what they were taught. I feel lucky to have had a coach who was fond of taking away tack. If you couldn’t sit a horse, she took your stirrups. If you yanked on the bit, she took away your reins or you rode in a halter. If you mouthed off, you lost your saddle (I spent a lot of time riding bareback… I was a surly teen with a killer seat. Lol).
That’s an awesome training tip for people! (The taking away tack thing)
Have you seen Stacy Westfall’s bareback and bridleless reining run? Just youtube search “Stacy Westfall bareback and bridleless”. And some people think you need a huge bit and constant contact to get a horse to behave. 
I can ride my mare bareback and bridleless, though it’s not nearly as refined as Stacy. Mainly, I can change directions, stop and back up, mostly at a walk. (My mare doesn’t like to trot in the round pen.)
December 2009 I got a 13 year-old thoughbred. He had been trained to race but then sold to a collage riding team. They sold him because he was phycotic. He then went to someone who managed to calm him down somewhat (esspecially ground manners) but they also jumped him around 2’6″. Shortly after I got him it became obvious that he had some health problems. The vet was called and in February a bladderstone the size of a grapefruit was removed.
As you can immagine this was very painful for him and everytime he had jumped the past summer it had pained him. This led to him becoming even more skittish about jumping than he was before. He shied anytime he saw a standard or pole and would refuse to even walk over a groundpole. And when he did go over fences he would bolt after, waiting for the pain to come. He also shied at every noise or unexpected object. The mere thought of trail riding was like a death sentence.
But, we have made tons of progress and this morning went for a trailride; jumping low logs, small streams, etc. wearing nothing but a halter, a leadrope tied into reins, and a bareback pad. I’m so proud of him!
Firstly, Trevor rocks, his horses are always amazing.
Second, I’m surprised that Myler was even allowed in a show class. It’s certainly not designed to be used with the lil connector thingy(sorry, not sure what its’ called). Its designed to be used with single reins. The myler combos are ideally used to transition your horse to a curb, from a snaffle. Works awesome, avoids all the WTF? from the horse. Mine has 3 rings, first, the big, basic snaffle ring, then the middle, then the last. I’ve found it takes about 7-14 rides per ring, depending on the horse, etc. I train western, so this time is spent getting them really tuned neck reining. I have often thought the ones like the one shown skip a step….. Make sense?
I have on occaision put one on a horse, both curb and snaffle horse, to give a not strong rider a little more control. Not a fix, just a band aid, so we could ride that day, till training could be done.
I am a huge fan of Myler bits, horses just really seem to appreciate them! Even just putting a similar shaped Myler in a horses mouth more times than not improves attitude and performance. Its not a matter of putting a bigger bit in, they just like it better. I probably own 7 different Mylers right now. But its a system, you should read up on it, so you understand it(and bitting in general) to use it to its full potential.
“It’s certainly not designed to be used with the lil connector thingy(sorry, not sure what its’ called). ”
We always called it a “cheater.”
Cheats the horse.
amen!
I always rode my old Saddlebred mare (right from when I broke her in) in a” hackamore”, the” hackamore” I used had a big soft sheepskin pad over the nose and just a leather strap under, which was always loose anyway. The only time I rode with a bit was for schooling or showing (english) all our trailrides were done in the “hackamore”.
One time when she was 3yo we were cantering up a hill beside a dirt road and the “hackamore” broke (it was very old and well worn) so I ended up with the whole thing hanging off her face, she was such a great horse,as soon as I stopped asking she stopped going, pulled up and I rigged it back together so we could get home.
My old saddlebred stallion was also trail ridden in a “hackamore” and schooled in a snaffle for dressage.
It is much easier when you mouth your own horses, than fixing someone elses work.
I’m one of those people that could have turned out either way. My parents bought me a horse when I was 13, and after a month of “lessons” and board (lessons meaning someone yelled at me when I did something wrong), we brought her home where she’s been ever since. I had minimal horse experience (a couple camps), but I loved to read, so by the time I got a horse I had read the entire ‘thoroughbred’ series, as well as most of the ‘phantom stallion’ books, and the entire entry on “horse” in the encyclopedia. My horse, a six year old quarter horse mare, who was something of a barrel racer, was quite fond of spooking at nothing, and turning imaginary barrels with no warning. Through this I learned to have an independent seat (it helped that my stirrups were kinda long). She would also throw her head pretty often, so I learned to keep a loose rein, but a firm grip on them, otherwise she would throw her head until there was tons of slack, then start running. :p Silly horse. So, I’m super grateful to my horse, and authors who actually know (most) of what they’re talking about.
I’d also like to say that this horse is extremely reliable now, and I feel 100% comfortable riding an Extreme Cowboy Racing course with a halter and lead rope.
And I often ride her in a snaffle, though I usually compete in a shanked port bit.
GOVERNMENT MORGAN Email me privately re UC Ringmaster
liz dot goldmann at verizon dot net
I would really like to start doing bitless with the 20 year old mare. I was told that at 20, she was set in her ways. She’s very responsive and I would like to get her to quit her head tossing. I have gotten her to stop doing it most of the time, but she starts allover when someone with hard hands rides her. (IE: Father-in-law) Honestly, I’ve given a thought to just jumping right in to bridless. While we clashed at first, she and I have started bonding to the point where she responds to me better than any rider in her past 16 years of riding. I ride her with a full cheek snaffle. (She was barrel raced in a messed up contraption of metal, that’s all I can say about her bit experience.) Just a random chance perhaps? (ha.)
All hail Stacey Westfall who has thrown down the gauntlet to all the Western disciplines to show just how well trained thier horses are.
Here is an amazing youtube video of Brandie Holloway showing her daughter’s old horse without a bridle in the 3’6″ hunters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjrsmkcDekE
I agree with everything you said, but I think there are exceptions. I have ridden some very strong jumpers. They flat in a loose ring perfectly quiet and not spooking even at the dogs playing tag in the ring, but they totally change as soon as you start jumping. They love their job so much that the will drag down a 5 stride and make it in 3. That is not the safest thing to do as the jumps go up. Those horses need more than just a snaffle or even a pelham.
hey heres my friend jenn doing her first bridleless riding performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su3Rsn7wM-c
she trained with tommy turvey. most of her horses do bridleless, in fact one i know prefers it (hes a beginner lesson horse) anyways just a neat vid of my friend, i also have a vid up of her doing the liberty on the ground part.
I personally have reformed my ring sour bolter into a pleasure to ride tack-less. I bought my mare one year ago, and I did not have much experience riding a western pleasure horse of her caliber. She had been showing western pleasure exclusively for 8 years, and had never seen the middle of the arena. Whenever I would ask her to lope, she would immediately take off and buck. The whole first year with her was a nightmare. We almost killed a ring steward during one show! I then took her to a professional paint trainer that put her back in a snaffle bit and had me do “exercises with her mouth” where I would pull and release and re-teach her to let me use my hands. Before she would simply rear and try to flip over if you used any type of hand pressure in her mouth. After doing this for 6 months, riding only in the middle of the arena for 3 months, and doing a pattern everyday my mare and I have overcome the bolting issue. I can now ride her without anything on her (halter, saddle, etc.) and not feel the slightest bit out of control. I have always used the simplest bit for my mare (a copper mouth eggbutt snaffle for english and a sweet iron grazing curb for western) and she actually appreciates them so I never have to use my hand excessively. Six months ago I wanted to put my mare back up for sale and just be done with showing, but after a little work and bonding I have successfully fixed a burnt out show horse’s habit of bolting.
I know I’m way late to the party, but I thought I’d pop a comment on here. I’ve never tried bridleless riding before because well, I’m one of those idiot riders who sees the reins as a security blanket/emergency break. *embarrassed* Well…I USED to be, rather. I’ve since learned the error of my ways, and back when I took riding lessons, I was a lot younger and a lot a dumber. I’ve wised up some, and reading this blog and the comments from horse people far more knowledgeable than I has proved to be quite enlightening. I love gleaning stuff from the good folk on this blog.
But! When I get back into riding, I will learn to NOT be one of those morons that keeps a death grip on the reins and I will focus on having a correct seat. My instructor, to my knowledge, never ever used any of those god awful bits that look like they were made to tear a horse’s mouth to bloody ribbons, thankfully. She had mostly gentle snaffle bits, if I remember correctly. And someday, when I’m advanced enough and feel confident enough (and ideally, with a reputable instructor to guide me) I will work my way up to riding without a bridle. That being said, I truly admire those who ride bridleless and can pull it off with style. I can only hope to be such a rider someday. Or close to it. I totally want to be Stacey Westfall when I grow up. XD
Somewhat related, but I’m surprised no one’s mentioned the story of Mandarin and Fred Winter. During a 1962 race at the Grand Steeplechase de Paris, Mandarin’s rubber covered snaffle bit broke at the fourth fence and in spite of that, he actually won the race and he and Fred became the heroes of France.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1458588/Fred-Winter.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Winter_%28horse_racing%29
I hope it’s not too OT, but I thought that was a pretty amazing story, and Mandarin was an incredible horse to win with a broken bit. I bet even the likes of Man O’ War, Seabiscuit, or even Secretariat, legendary racers though they were, couldn’t have pulled something like THAT off.
I’m really late in replying to this, but thought I’d leave my comment anyway.
I seriously hate some of the bits people use on their horses. I sometimes feel like the people that use bits like that are only into riding because they feel like it gives them some kind of status or some such none-sense. All I know for sure is that in my own experience anyone that was into riding because they truly loved the sport for itself and not some other reason never rode in anything more than a slow twist.
I also wanted to say that I recently started riding my horse without tack. We don’t pull off anything fancy, but he knows my voice cues well enough from all of the times I ran him in the round pen that when I say ‘easy’ he stops on a dime. Now if only he knew leg cues better. XD