How to choose a trainer!
Apr 11 2010
This is a partial repost of a previous post, but since this just came up again in the comments, I wanted to make it easy to find. Here are my tips on finding a trainer you and your horse will be happy with.
We all know choosing a trainer is difficult. You don’t want someone abusive, but you also don’t want someone who is still petting your horse and trying to help him over his emotional issues ten months later without ever having gotten into the saddle. So how do you know that your prospective trainer is the type who is careful and using good judgment as opposed to a con artist who’ll suck up your cash like an Electrolux or the type who will smile to your face and then do things that would horrify you behind your back?
First question, can that trainer show you horses he or she has successfully trained? Go watch those horses compete, or talk to the owners and see them ridden if the trainer’s focus is creating quality trail horses. Are they sound? Are they happy? Pinned ears and a pissy expression is NOT OK, not even if the horse is winning like that. (I don’t mean cutting horses that pin their ears at a cow or reining horses that lay them back on a slide. That’s normal. I mean constant pinned ears or grinding teeth and obvious discomfort loping around on a soft rein or doing rail work.)
Second question, what are the trainer’s policies about their barn? I would not personally leave my horse anywhere that visits were restricted or had to be announced (within reason, during normal barn hours). If you cannot just walk in and watch the trainer work horses, I would worry about what is going on. Now, you don’t have the right to walk in unannounced and ask the trainer to drop what they are doing and ride your horse for you – that’s different. You are not the only client and may not behave like a princess. But an “open door†policy is usually a very good sign that your horse is being treated well even when you are not present.
Third question, has the trainer ever been disciplined by their breed association and why? A phone call will tell you this. If they have been caught drugging or abusing horses, trust me, they have not changed their stripes. Not all discipline is for that sort of thing, so do ask why before you jump to conclusions.
Fourth, GOOGLE! One Rip-Off report or similar rant could be a problem customer and everybody has had at least one. Six of them? Probably not a good sign.
Fifth, go to the barn and look at the horses. Happy and fresh, ears up, come to the door to see the people and determine the presence of cookies? Or all sulking in the corners, hoping not to be bothered, or aggressively scraping their teeth on the stall bars?
Another thing I’d do before choosing a trainer include going to a show they’re at and observing how they treat their clients and horses when under stress. That can be very different from how things go at home, and they can’t hide anything at a show. Lurking quietly around the warm up ring, with no one knowing you are a prospective client, is highly educational.
Once they’re in training, you should be able to set up times to watch them worked and get regular updates about their progress. This can be scary ground for the trainer. Some of you are like the parents who will flip if anything negative is said about your child. GROW UP. Your child has bad days, really. 
I hear everything about my horse – from the glowing reports when he goes like he’s ready for the World to the days when he says “nope, I don’t sidepass today, eff you lady†and I like it that way. If you’re a grown-up who can handle hearing about your horse’s faults, make sure to tell your trainer so that he/she won’t be scared that you’ll simply stomp off and find a different trainer who blows sunshine and butterflies up your ass instead of the truth.
Finally, don’t expect results if you trainer-hop. Absolutely move your horse out if you find evidence of abuse or drugging or you’re seeing your horse’s attitude deteriorate or he is developing vices he never had before. But if the progress simply isn’t what you were hoping for, ask questions and give the trainer a chance to show you what they are doing, why they are doing it, and what mental or physical limitations or challenges are holding your horse back.
It’s probably obvious at this point that it’s a lot cheaper to buy a fully trained horse if your goal is getting into the show ring quickly – but going through the training process with a much loved horse or one that you bred is particularly rewarding as well. You get to control how that horse is trained. You can ensure he never has bad experiences, becomes sour, gets ridden too early or pushed too hard – things you may not be able to avoid with a horse you purchase already finished. There are advantages to both approaches and it’s up to you to figure out what makes sense for you. Unless, of course, you’re the one who bred him and now he’s 3 or 4 and you haven’t been able to sell him. Then you have to remember that you brought him into this world and you are the one responsible for making sure he has a good life. 60 days of training will help a lot, and you owe it to him to give him that, even if it’s a financial hardship.
150 comments to “How to choose a trainer!”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
I was lucky, when I was 18 I bought a 2YO Arabian gelding. (Talk about stupid- he wasn’t broke. Green + green DOES = black and blue. And my back still hurts 30 years later… But he was “pretty”. And I could afford him) Fortunately, there was a lady at the barn I boarded at and she helped me- A LOT. Not a professional in the sense of the word, but she knew what she was doing and she got him straightened out. He ended up being a super nice horse but it took a while. I had him for 21 years, and still miss him. His only phobia was cars, and *I* did that to him. I would tense up and he’d feed off me. Poor guy.
Now, having Minis, we do everything ourselves. Besides, we like the AOTE classes and do very well in them! (High point Senior Stallion last year! WHOO HOO!) But after 30 years in horses hopefully we learned something! And, when we go to shows we watch, listen and ask questions. Most trainers don’t mind. We also have a mentor who has helped us out many times! We bought our first Mini from her 12 years ago and still talk all the time and stall together at Nationals.
I can completely agree. See what the trainers horses are like. Do they seem like they are treated well? Or does it look like all the trainer is in for is money they make from ‘training’ horses? Does one horse seem to have welts or do all the horses seem to have welts? What about spur marks? Watch the trainer and see how they use spurs. Do they use them effectively, or do they just simply just jab at them? Go and see how ethical the trainer is at shows. Do they show a cool head when a horse plays up and doesn’t want to do what their told? Or do they do the whole yank yank spur spur with more than two swats of the crop temper tantrum? And listen to your gut. If it’s telling you to run, do it. Or else you may very well find a very screwed up horse the next time you visit. Also listen to the trainers. Do they brag and try and make themselves better than they are? Or are they honest about their abilities? And I so agree with google and ripoff. Everyone has at least one or two problem customers, they can’t make everyone happy. But when ten different people are singing the same song? That’s suspicious. Also look out for the abusive BNT supporters. I’ve seen them from time to time, seven people singing the same song, and than three people appear saying that BNT would never do that. So look at it throughly and separate the ethical trainers from the pond scum. Also take a look at the price of training as well, sometimes you can find good deals, and sometimes trainers think they can get suckers to pay more than they should. But safety should always be a priority, or else you may be regretting that $200 training fee.
If the trainer has a trained horse that they can give you a few lessons on prior to committing to sending your horse for training, that can be a good preview of what to expect YOUR horse to feel like when he’s trained, and if the trainer has a good communication style with you to train YOU to ride your horse once it’s trained.
MOST MOST MOST important: make time to go out and involve yourself in the training. I have boarded at SO many barns (I move a lot) and worked for several trainers, and I have yet to see one that actually works with the horse as much as they are supposed to unless the owner is very involved in the training. Not necessarily every single day, but if you can get out there at least 2,3,4 times a week, clean some tack and watch other horses get worked until the trainer is ready for your horse, offer to groom the horse and get him ready for the trainer, then watch the ride and ask questions afterward, then hose him off and hand-graze him afterward. That speaks volumes to the trainer. Your actions are saying “hey, we’re not messing around here, I take this horse seriously and we’ve got a task at hand”, whereas someone who never shows up is basically saying “whatever you can get done is good enough”.
Very good post. My horses get worked 6 days a week regardless of how far away their owners live. Not all trainers do that, which makes no sense to me. If I want to have a great show string, then the horses need to be prepared… DUH. I do have a few teenager clients that come and spend the day whenever they can, and my crew and I LOVE the help. Teenagers are my favorite people, partly for that reason!
YESSSSS!
The summer my parents sent my smart, unruly pony to a trainer, they also sent ME. My dad was away a lot that summer, so my mom packed my little sister and I into the car and we went to the stable almost EVERY DAY. It was an hour away, so it just seemed better to make a day of it. My sister would play with the dogs & cats, my mom would read under a tree (a few times she got bored and cleaned the trainer’s house; poor mom just can’t get over how animal people tend to be… lax… in their housekeeping), and I would LEARN. Sometimes my mom would just leave me for a few days and I’d help out with Horse Camp or whatever my crappy health would allow, and sleep in the spare bed. The next summer I spent not QUITE as much time there, but a good chunk of it.
I learned so much during those times of immersion, sometimes with experienced schoolies (one of whom we eventually bought) and sometimes with my own pony.
Sadly, I couldn’t afford to take lessons at that farm NOW…. my old trainer is now “a Bronze, Silver, and Gold Medalist with the United States Dressage Federation, an “L†judge, and has competed many horses to national awards at the FEI level.” (from her website) But they were still building their business, and did a lot of fine stuff with beginners and their horses back then.
You know, you don’t need a big name trainer to get big name results. If you’re lucky enough to find a skilled youngish person who’s still got a lot of mileage, and just on the verge of making a name for him/herself, go for it. And you might even get good results from Joe Blow the Local Guy who has a strong talent for starting or rehabbing horses but doesn’t want to show.
But if they don’t work with YOU, and you don’t take the time to work with THEM, what the heck is this all about, anyway??
This was me and my sister too! Though we didnt live so far and my mom definitely did not camp out for the day. Much to the dismay of the barn owners and trainers, the barn become a free daycamp for all of us kids with horses there in the Summer. For the most part we were pretty well-behaved (I think..?) and we would be put to work often. We also absorbed a ton of knowledge, and the luckier kids like myself got a LOT of extra ride time in schooling other peoples horses and ponies.
Our barn was definitely a “B” and even “C” level barn and nothing fancy, but it was a decently run business, and the trainers overall were really good and honestly cared about their students. I do look back, knowing what I know now, and question some of the training methods–watching that guy whomp on his Grand Prix horse from last weeks post reminded me of my normally sweet trainer having a meltdown after my stopper dumped me over a fence for the 36th time… But overall, we were lucky for sure.
I think there is a ton of great advice here already, but dont always go solely by who has the biggest reputation or the most students. We ended up leaving the barn I talked about above after many years, landing with a smaller, lesser-known trainer who ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. He was brilliant, just quirky, and pushed me really, really hard and improved my skill ten-fold. Look for someone you like, that is most important. If you dont jive from the beggining, then you probably wont last long.
What an excellent post, FHOD!!!!!!!! I wish I would have read it years ago.
I just have one more thing to add………. Be willing to learn how your horse is trained from the trainer. Try to provide that consistency when you bring your horse home and learn new ways to do things and cue. It is only fair to your horse. After a few months and years, a new partnership can be formed where you and your horse are on same page with requests and expectations. However, for the first few months after training; try hard not to undo the good by confusing your horse with “your own way of doing things”. JMO.
I have to say that I absolutely adore my trainer. She does not show now, although she has in the past. She focuses now on hole-proof groundwork, and makes sure that the horse understands the current lesson thoroughly before moving on. She knows the difference between not understanding the task vs. not wanting to do the task. There are always pop in visits allowed, and all the horses are happy and healthy. She is reasonably priced, and frequently works with rescues and rehabs horses.
I have sent 2 horses so far, and have been very statisfied with the progress each made, and turned into great trail horses, which is what I do. I have one more that will go next spring for a few months, and I know that she will get the same solid foundation that I can then build on.
She is located in N. Snohomish County. Email me if she sounds like someone who can help your horse.
She is awesome.
Ok, since I can’t figure out how to view a profile and I can’t edit the above post,
If you want an excellent basic trainer in N Snoho, email me at jmoon111@gmail.com. 
Great points, all. Seems like your post should be common knowledge/sense; yesterday’s post just serves to refute that. If so few people have it, why is it considered common? Sometimes I wonder how some folks are still alive, what with the nonsense they either espouse or follow or both.
Something else to consider: talk to trainers about who they would recommend if their barn was full. The same names will keeping surfacing. I believe that quality folks would not only know who the other good trainers are, they would recommend them. Do they run their business professionally? Duties, responsibilities, fees spelled out clearly? Vets/farriers might be good sources, too. Lastly, don’t forget to check with your gut. (Remember what happened the last time you ignored it?!!)
Sad note: RIP Personal Ensign.
I can’t help but wonder, if horse owners think they know so much about horses, and what training practices are good or bad, why they aren’t training their horses themselves.
There are a lot of reasons. Someone might know quite a bit about proper horse care and basic training principles, but might not know that much about the discipline they want to do with their horse. For instance, I do dressage (and I DO train my own, by the way) and there is such a science to knowing how to do what and when to do it, and why you’re doing it, and what it will do to the horse’s positioning, and how that will in turn affect the horse’s gait in one way or another, and then what you do once you’ve done that, and so on and so forth. There are many people who understand basic training do’s and don’ts but can’t fully explain grand prix dressage.
I’ve always, in the back of my mind, had an interest in cutting. Never ridden western in my life. Last time I tried to ride in a western saddle I fell off; just couldn’t figure out how to work the dang thing. If I were to make some good money for myself and decided to get myself a horse for cutting, I would be HOPELESS if I tried to do it myself. I would definitely need a well respected cutting trainer for that.
You just made me feel better. I swear, I ride like crap in those darn western saddles. Rode in one for team sorting yesterday and have cool pics of the horse but I look like crap, lol! I used to show western but it was 20 years ago and now it just feels like, ugh, why is all this STUFF between me and the horse and why does it not bend more?
For those of you having trouble riding in a western saddle as opposed to a flat saddle, try a Fallis balanced ride. They are as “close contact” as you can get with a western saddle, due to how the rigging is designed, and have free swinging stirrups that are more english-like. I have ridden them for years and can’t stand “regular” western saddles anymore. I find that most western saddles are bulky and my leg feels trapped in one spot. I had a customer who rides english cringe when I asked her to get on her horse in my saddle and go for a trail ride with me. She thought she hated western saddles. She fell in love and bought a Fallis of her own! Bennett (in Canada) also makes a nice balanced ride western saddle but they tend to be more expensive than Fallis.
It took me a while too to figure it out–after growing up for 10+ years in hunt seat then getting thrown into leading “dudes” around the wilderness for 3 summers.
A Western seat (at least in my ranching & cowboying, not showing, experience) is all about being *behind* the motion, as opposed to being -with- the motion in an English seat. I’d tell my dudes who were floundering; “Pretend like youre sitting in an easy chair! Roll back onto your tailbone and jam those heels down out front.” The total antithesis of Hunter Equitation, and a hell of a lot more comfortable when riding 20 miles a day!
Now I ride with my stirrups too long when I do get back in an English saddle. I dont know which way is up anymore…
I agree that you do roll back on your seat bones more, but I was nagged constantly by my first lesson instructor to lose the chair seat and bring my heels back under me. The trick I think is to align shoulder, hip, and heel but your pelvis seems to tilt differently.
I am a western person, taking some english lessons now too… I have the same problem with the English saddles and you guys do with western… I don’t know where to put my body! I am just now getting the hang of using shorter stirrups without feeling totally perched in the saddle.
::raises hand:: Right there with you. I’m 5’2″ standing on a hill and most of that is in my torso. I’ve been told all of my riding life that I need to “make my leg longer”, first from my hunter/eq pro when I was a Junior, then my Western coach in college. She used to take my stirrups down so low in class that they hung below my natural leg length! Like I was going to suddenly grow an extra three inches in my femur right there in front of her. Plus, I also thought all the saddles were way too wide. Unfortunately, I’m now having the same struggle with my dressage saddle. I’m working my way down to a “proper” dressage stirrup length, half-hole by half-hole, but it’s a slow and sometimes very frustrating process, especially on the days when my smart-ass gelding is gleefully taking advantage of my discomfort.
Whoa… I get the whole “sit on your pockets” thing, but as for jamming your legs out in front… um…. no. You’re really looking for that “long tall proud” thing. It’s not forward, it’s not behind, it’s WITH. It’s kind of sexy, if you roll your hips right. It’s a balanced seat, like dressage.
I think a big problem for a lot of us who transition back & forth is that the stirrups on a Western saddle should be long, but you should also have enough support to sink your weight into your heels.
I see a lot of parents get their children too-large saddles, and instead of going to our local leather wizard and have him cut up the fenders and/or simply drill or punch more holes, they just duct tape a wooden block to the stirrup tread. *head explodes*
So unsafe….
I actually find western easy on the rare occasions I get on a western saddle. Maybe its easier for us dressage people, who ride with longer stirrups anyway?
I do need to work on sitting the jog.
And MY big issue is I find it really hard to get ON. Even if I find something to stand on…I just can’t quite do it. Guess I need more lessons
.
Yes! It’s hard swinging your leg over when you’re “standing low.”
The other thing is, I’d love to get a dressage saddle, but wonder if perhaps the flaps would be too long for me….
I got the world’s smallest hunt seat saddle for my daughter (who’s 4), and the stirrups are WAY jacked short, with a mile of leather trailing behind her, and the top of her lacer boots barely clear the bottoms of the flaps.
hee hee
Man, I can’t deal with most Western saddles.
I’m a short woman with short legs, and everything is just too WIDE.
Maybe on a barrel saddle, or something with way cut-up skirts and kid-sized fenders, but all that stiff, stiff leather?
Same. I’m a solid 5′ with short legs.
One of 3 things happen when I’m put in a Western Saddle:
1. They put me in a kid’s saddle that has no swell and a tiny seat. Womanly hips+ Eensy weensy seat= bruises that don’t go away for weeks.
2. I have no hope of ever reaching the stirrups so I just ride without stirrups. The riding association at my college only has big western saddles. They sort of wigged when I said I’d just not use the stirrups during the newbie evaluation ride. I had a better seat than their “instructors” so I wasn’t concerned (however my thighs hated me afterward.)
3. On a minuscule amount of saddles (the only ones like this that I’ve found are a super light weight synthetic brand) I can kind of reach the stirrups. I’m not usually all that happy with it but it’s enough.
You’d think some saddle makers would cotton on to their female customer base and make more woman-friendly saddles!!!!
Seems like you should be able to purchase saddles based on seat size, twist (or whatever they call it in Western) AND inseam!
Some do and that is how the rest of us end up with theirnot so well trained projects.
TIME. I am sending out a horse this summer for the first time ever. I have always started and trained my foals myself, but I have a wonderful job now that has a very busy seasonal schedule. During the winter, I work only a couple of hours a few days a week, but during the fall, I work 7 days a week 10-12 hours a day. It would not be in the best interest on my filly to not work consistently during those few months that I can’t do what she needs. I have done lots of ground work and gotten on her a few times, but I need someone to ride her when I can’t. The rest of the year I have pleantly of time to ride and train. I still think that I know what is appropriate for my horse. So I guess the short answer would be time.
I choose to work with trainers who aren’t afraid of clients, and aren’t afraid to tell clients that they are not welcome in the barn. I think it works best when both trainer and client treat each other with respect and clearly defined expectations.
I also find it comforting to know that my trainers spend lots of time with my horses, learning their individual personalities and quirks. They often know very quickly when one of my horses isn’t quite himself. Sure, sometimes once they start back into training my horses are grumpy (being a lawn ornament is sooo much less work…) but once they get over that, they’re usually happy campers and like the structure and activity.
I do pay a decent price for training, but it is worth it in many ways. Beyond the showing, my horses are socialized regularly to all kinds of things, they have structure and regular activity, as well as consistent rules that they are expected to follow. All these things make any horse easier to handle, easier to enjoy, and potentially much easier to sell.
BTW – when I say trainers tell clients they’re not welcome, I mean dismissing of disruptive, disrespectful, crazy clients. Not telling a good client who pays bills and communicates to bugger off. =]
I have made arrangements to meet with a trainer twice and she has flaked out both times. I guess I will continue to search for someone who shows up. I’m lucky, the 2 yr old filly I have has a year or more before I need to make a final decision and I can watch trainers work horses this year to see how their horses turn out.
I have been having a hell of a time finding a dressage trainer in the Seattle area. The trainers I’ve come across so far have crank nosebands as tight as they can go and the flash so tight, it dents the horse’s face in by almost an inch(not all do this, just a few). Does every horse NEED a crank noseband? Why is it crank nosebands for all?
I don’t have my own horse yet, as my budget will not allow it. I am fairly new to dressage, but I’m pretty sure “roundness” doesn’t come from sawing the bit in the horses mouth to get his head down. At first I thought, “well, I’m the newbie, she is the trainer. She must know what she is doing…” But this seemed to be in opposition to everything I had read from von Neindorff, Kottas, Loch and others. When people say they teach classical dressage, I think of the Spanish Riding School. But then I see them ride and train. Their horse’s movements are blocky and the horse looks pissy, nothing like the SRS.
I used to think that I must be misunderstanding it and sawing on the horses face is just the way its done. But the more I read, the more I’m convinced that its bad for the horse. As much as I love horses and riding, I’m not willing to do it at the expense of the horse.
OMG NO… see-sawing is never appropriate. Always wrong, never right. All of my horses do wear a crank noseband, though (in Arabs we all call it a draw-tight). Not every noseband is cranked; I just feel that it is there if I need it, and even if the noseband isn’t tight at all, they seem to pinch under the jaw less than traditional cevessons. However, the noseband should never be cranked crazy tight to mask issues such as footsoreness (a major reason for a gaping mouth), and ill-fitting bit, or holes in the horse’s basic understanding of the bridle.
I shall say this again and keep on saying it till people start listening!!!
THE CAVESSON NOSEBAND IS NOT MADE TO KEEP THE MOUTH SHUT. If you are using it this way, whatever “incarnation” you are using, you are MISUSING it and causing potential damage to the horses jaw.
NO horse that has been correctly trained needs a crank noseband of ANY sort.
If you train a horse properly, at the correct age (no younger than the summer of it’s THIRD year) then any horse properly started and brought on will give without anything to keep it’s mouth artificially shut.
All my kids rode Arabs at all levels in open shows, they jumped, gymkanaed, Pony Clubbed, Hunter Trialled and rode at Nationals on the same horses. There was NEVER a crank, or even a drop or flash noseband in sight.
If they needed to come out of a snaffle they did, they rode in double bridles in the show ring and often hacked out in them too, as the horses were WELL TRAINED and so were comfortable in the bits, and the riders were well trained too, and so were comfortable using double reins.
IT IS NOT THE HORSES FAULT YOU ARE NOT A GOOD ENOUGH RIDER TO HANDLE IT WITHOUT RESORT TO DAMAGING ARTIFICIAL AIDS.
Get some riding training so the horses are happy in the bit that suits them.
We managed very well before these HORRIBLE things were fashionable, get some bottle and do the same!!!!
What is a Crank nose band???
I have seen drop nose bands, and figure eight nose bands.. I use a normal cavesson..
But have never heard of a crank..
And some people ride their horses in them ALL the time..
OW…
Don’t you think you should try a different approach to get your horse on the bit and rounded.. other than forcing it’s mouth closed…
This is a crank noseband:
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#crank
^^ That is an AWESOME webpage!
I had no idea the real name for a pucket was a “Kineton noseband” Which is an awesome piece of equipment btw.
Thank you so much for sharing this link! I’m struggling to figure out what to ride my 3 year old in, since he seems to have a bizarre hatred for plain snaffles.
Since he is a Paso Fino, I don’t think dressage is in his future, but this website can help me learn how the different bits work in any horse’s mouth!
I’ve been googling for a while now, and this is the BEST site I’ve seen, as far as education goes. I love the pictures and anatomical diagrams! Thanks again!!!
If you’re using a single jointed bit try a double jointed, French link or mullen mouth. Some horses HATE a single jointed/broken bit, usually because they have a narrow lower jaw and/or a low palate, causing the central joint to come into contact with the roof of the mouth and act like a high port. This makes the bit action more severe than the rider or trainer realizes.
He hated the single-joint D-ring snaffle and I had no control. He didn’t mind the full-cheek snaffle, although I wasn’t able to get him collected for his gait. We had GREAT success in the rubber bit similar to the one in the site above:
Not sure that would fly in the show ring, lol! Mylers are supposedly good bits for Paso Finos, but I’ve heard mixed reviews and I’m not ready to spend that kind of money yet. I think I’m going to try french-link next.
Thanks for the tip!!
I think by crank they mean a figure 8.I use them on my race horses that have some trouble breathing, you don’t have to tighten them as much and the placement of it restricts the airway less. Usually used along with a tounge tie. As far as the horse that won’t close it’s yap because of a rider/trainer issue, I don’t agree with the use of a figure 8 or flash.
Thanks for the advice, Kirri. Perhaps we will meet this October when we are in the top ten together at Nationals.
Quick question: what is the purpose of a noseband, if not to keep the mouth shut?? Also, if nosebands are SO cruel, why are they mandatory for all levels of Dressage?? While I do appreciate the sentiment behind your armchair quarterback opinion of noesbands, I would like to point out that not all horses are perfect, nor are they all the same. If you have trained enough horses, you will notice that they have different quirks and sometimes evasions. Some horses have learned that opening the mouth is much easier that collecting. Also, what would you like to do with a confirmed tongue sucker.. you know that kind.. Momma sucked her tongue, so did Poppa, baby did it at momma’s side, does it in the stall, and under saddle too????? Do you just give up and toss the horse out? Do you tie its tongue? Do you just let it flip its tongue over the bit, or worse than that: between the bits of the full bridle?? Or do you snug up the cavesson a bit? Of course finding a comfortable bit is compulsory.
I sure do wish that I lived in your little world where every horse is perfect and falls into your idealized training program, but I live in the real world.
SOME horses. SOMEtimes. A repeat offenders under an experienced and tactful rider MIGHT need a snugged-up noseband until he gets his act together.
But NOT as a quick fix to MAKE the horse submit to a rider’s bad hands. And NOT as The Easy Way To Achieve Collection. Um, no. So bass-ackwards.
Too many folks start doing something just because they see a Big Name Winning Rider/Trainer do it. And in fact, the BNT might be using something like a crank noseband with sensitivity as a temporary training aid or something, but all of a sudden all these new and intermediate riders think “oooh, this is the way it’s done?” because no one teaches them any differently.
Actually, there is ONE situation in which I would see-saw…if I’m on a runaway, normal aids are NOT working and the local geography is such that I can’t do a one rein stop safely…for example, narrow trail through trees. If you’re in an all out runaway situation, you do whatever it damn takes to stop that horse without either of you getting hurt.
I agree. Hey, on a runaway, you do what you have to in order to save both of your necks.
And then, if you’ve spent all your schooling time see-sawing on the horse’s mouth, it likely WON’T stop, because hey, it’s used to it.
I started riding at a terrible barn, and they had me see-saw (even described it like that verbatim) to get a ‘head-set’. Scariest moment of my life when my mare bolted on a mountain trail and I realized I might as well have had no bridle on her, and all I could do was hang on until she got tired.
How wide a range around Seattle are you considering?
This was something important to me in finding a trainer to ride with. My trainer and I have very similar experiences riding up to the point she started eventing and I stopped riding for years until I could afford a show horse. We have similar riding styles and similar philosophies about using the gentlest bit your horse works with, using the fewest extra “tools” and no gimmicks, etc. She’s just a far stronger rider than I am, and knows a heck of a lot more about dressage than I do!
When I get an unbroken horse someday years in the future, she will help me find a trainer who specializes in starting horses, as that’s not her focus area. I love that she’ll be honest about that. She’ll work with problem horses who are already undersaddle, has had multiple problem OTTB or bulldozer draft crosses she worked through their mental issues, etc. It’s all about honest discussion of the trainer’s strengths and weaknesses. I would not want a trainer who won’t admit her/his weaknesses, too. I wouldn’t expect a grand prix dressage trainer to start horses, too (though perhaps a grand prix jumping trainer, as many of them have horses who buck after jumps like a young horse may if it’s the bucking type).
I definitely feel how a horse reacts to a trainer tells you a lot. When I started shopping for a horse I thought I would end up getting an unbroken horse because I hate the things I see so many trainers doing… but I ended up with a horse who my trainer worked with for a while last year. He, and every other horse I’ve seen her work with, loves my trainer. I’ve never seen a horse put its ears back at her except maybe at girth tightening, and I’ve never seen a horse she rides look anything but more relaxed when she’s done than when she takes it out to work. These are all things to look for, and great signs that it’s the kind of trainer you want to work with.
Okay, going to step in here.
A lot of dressage people saw at the mouth. It is a misunderstanding of the correct technique, but often appears to work…the horse drops its nose. However, the horse does not balance up and go correctly.
The *correct* technique is flex and check…a slight feel of the inside rein, just enough to cause the horse to go with the rein slightly, then release and push into the outside rein. This is done to correct bracing of the neck and shoulders that some horses do as an evasion. It is done once, maybe twice, and carry on…but of course, it is very easy for somebody who only *thinks* they know what they’re doing to turn it into sawing at the mouth.
Crank nosebands are fashionable, but utterly, utterly not necessary. In my opinion, not necessary on ANY horse. I do ride one horse in a flash, but she is a 20+ schoolmaster who has ALWAYS been ridden in the flash and we don’t want to change things up on her now.
Wow… I thought the only folks who seesawed were do-it-quick Western Pleasure riders & trainers and stock horse “huntseat” people.
I don’t usually have a high opinion of either.
Have you tried the National School of Academic Equitation? http://www.classical-equitation.com/
The trainer there is amazing and teached good horsemanship and all of the horse their are happy and healthy, get daily turnout and are very well taken care of.
Very open atmosphere and the horses are well trained and the people there are nice! Check them out. They are about 3o minutes from seattle
NSAE is only just down the road from Kirkland. Its in Snohomish.
Wow, thanks for all the feedback!:) I am in the south Bothell/Kirkland area and would be willing to drive 30min. I can pay up to $50/lesson. Thanks again!
I have two recommendations for a good dressage trainers in the Redmond to Monroe area. Email me at capilet@gmail.com and I’ll get you their information.
K
There is a difference between “see-sawing” and “softening”. It is appropriate to see a dressage rider have a soft and flexible arm that can make little adjustments either by bending their elbow a bit or by quick squeeze-and-release with their fingers if they feel that one side of the horse’s jaw is stiff, or one side of the throatlatch area is bulging in when it’s supposed to bulge out, etc. It is NOT appropriate to see a rider go around consistently alternating left-right-left-right with their hands or arms. But playing a little with the contact is normal.
As far as crank nosebands, I cannot STAND to see them cranked tight. I don’t have a problem with the crank noseband itself if people are just using them for extra padding and protection between the buckle and chin to prevent chafing, but cranking them tight defeats the purpose of dressage in my opinion. As far as I’m concerned, if someone can’t get their horse to keep his mouth closed by softening his jaw and relaxing him, then they need to go back to those basics until they can.
I always find this discussion interesting. My guy chews and opens his mouth with the bit in it when I’m not even mounted. At this point, he’s in a happy mouth bit which seems to make him happy. He’s chewing and playing, and puts his ears forward and seems to enjoy how light the bit is and how much room he has to play. In this, he’s a typical OTTB. When I ride he sometimes does this, too – especially if he’s not having to work as much. Given we’re schooling above where we’ll show, my tests are going to be very un-challenging to him…. what becomes too much chewing on a bit? I have yet to find an answer, though I’m guessing different judges will have different opinions.
I’ve always been trained that light chewing on the bit is appropriate because it displays relaxation and softness in the jaw, which displays the horse’s acceptance of contact with your hands. This is what creates the “white lipstick” spit-foam on the lips. You don’t want to have no chewing at all, but you also don’t want to have vigorous chomping and salivating all over the place.
In his case, I’m not sure if it would be considered light chewing. I think he’s actually enjoying being able to, so hopefully the fact he’s clearly relaxed and happy will count in our favor. He has a history of having his nose cranked in too much, so as he’s learning contact is a good thing, not painful, he chews more and more and it’s almost a gleeful “hey, my mouth is FREEEEEE!” My trainer isn’t really worried about it, so I guess we’ll see what judges think soon enough. He does seem to chew less while we’re going, though, since he has to think about what he’s doing – and lives up to stretchy/chewy circles by chewing more then. He actually doesn’t produce much saliva yet, so I’m curious to see if that changes over time. He has a happy mouth bit right now, which I don’t think is known for producing saliva – but does appear to make his mouth happy.
Regarding contact/collection/rein aids, I was once told to “Invite the horse’s mouth” and that a little bit of playing with the bit was desirable, because it meant that the horse was aware and accepting of that line of communication, instead of dead-mouthed, evading, or setting his jaw. And that you DO want that spit moving! That’s what “sweet iron” and copper bits are SUPPOSED to do. Also there are pleny of bits with little rollers or keys on them, supposedly (I thought) to encourage the horse to remain happily thoughtful of the bit.
No cranks or flashes, no seesawing, snaffles only please. My trainer (who I absolutely love) teaches classical dressage a la Eric Herbermann and von Neindorff. There is nothing like the feeling of a willing, well warmed up, round dressage partner. If you can’t get there without gimmicks – get some lessons – the horse already knows how to do it without you on his back. I’ve resigned myself to the reality that it will take me the rest of my life to get decent at dressage, but it’s the journey that’s important – right?!
I would recommend a fabulous book – Dressage Formula – Erik Herbermann. Also comes in cd form…
I’ve started a blog about being a first time horse owner (ottb) and studying dressage… FHOTD would you mind if I linked to you ?
I”m starting to see things like the crank noseband/strapping the mouth shut as a cover up. Just to hide symptoms of a tense/pissy horse. God forbid we try to find the source of the tension….
Can I add a few things I think are important?
1) Ask who will be riding/training your horse. Is it the trainer you talked to and watched work,or is it the kid they just hired last week?
2) Make sure the trainer trains using methods and equipment that you will be comfortable using, and that the trainer rides in a way that is similar to you, so that the transition from trainer to you will be smooth.
3) Ask the trainer “why” they use a particular technique, or are doing something with a certain horse…or why they use a certain peice of tack. If they don’t know “why” they are doing something, they shouldn’t be doing it. And if there answer doesn’t make sense…then they likely don’t have a lot of depth as a trainer, and may get into trouble if the horse doesn’t repond the way they expect.
4) Have they ever trained a horse of the same breed? Training a QH vs an Arab, a Warmblood vs a Morgan, or a TB vs a Draft cross has similarities, but also has key differences, and someone who doesn’t have experience with the breed, or understand the breed standard (for show purposes) could take your horse in the wrong direction training wise.
5) Check the feed and care just like you would for a boarding stable.
6) Make sure the trainers schedule will allow you to come and watch your horse work and ride your horse. If the trainer only works horses 9-5 monday – Friday, and you work those hours, then that is likely not a good set up!
Those are all excellent points – thank you!
Excellent post. I learned by working for one of the biggest of the BNT/ judges in Arabs. He has a specific program for everything that he does: whether it be getting an English horse in the full bridle, getting a western horse in the bosal, or starting a baby. The horses do not advance to the next step until they master each step before, and every piece of equipment has a specific purpose. I have NEVER EVER seen him use a trendy piece of tack just because someone else does. Even with his multiple National Champions each year he still regularly goes to other successful trainers to learn. To this day, I can all him up with a problem and he will search his mental rolodex for his tried and true system of working with that problem. If a trainer looks at you and says “I don’t know, that’s just how I do it”, then that is a major problem.
Or they have stupid explanations. One of my favorite lines from a former target of this blog was that horses couldn’t learn to neck rein in the snaffle and had to be in the curb. Huh? I’ve taught plenty of horses to neck rein in the snaffle just fine. NECK REINING has to do with the reins on the neck (hence the name, LOL!) in conjunction with your LEG and SEAT cues. It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with what is in the mouth. I could teach it in a halter and two lead ropes – so could anyone.
I never use a bit till a horse is happy doing everything it is safe to do under saddle without a bit.
This includes neck reining as I have always neck reined, it was just something that came to me naturally, even though we do not do it all that much over here.
I have done it since I was a kid, all my horse do it, even in hand as it is very handy to be able to turn a halter horse away from you without shuffling around.
It is merely an extension of giving to pressure, which every horse should do as part of their ground training.
We are back to basics again so, although I have never used a trainer in my life, all my owner bred horses have also been owner trained, I shall add to the list:
Get a list of what the trainer considers to be essential basics.
From the trainer.
VERBALLY.
If they cannot list, verbally, everything that they consider to be important, that has to be done before ever a foot is put in the stirrup, irrespective of the discipline to be entered, I would run away very quickly.
First on the list for me would be never, ever, starting riding training on an animal under three years old!!!!
Heck. I taught a horse to neck rein in two weeks when I was fifteen and knew NOTHING about training horses. I’m not sure my method was what a real trainer would have used, but it worked. I think its one of the easiest things to teach a horse to do providing they know to move from the leg.
Um…. how do you explain the thousands of horses currently showing in a bosal right this very minute??
Ask who will be riding/training your horse. Is it the trainer you talked to and watched work,or is it the kid they just hired last week?
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this. The trainers working student on the horses in training. I’m paying for training, not exercise. I’d like to see some results.
Yes yes yes ask who’ll be riding, and by all means drop in. Often. And speak to the barn staff. Just as in any business setting, the workers often know more than the execs.
I groomed for a big bucks jumper barn. I don’t know how the trainer managed it, but clients rarely dropped in. The barn of 40 would be quiet nearly all day and evening. As was the arena. I think it had something to do with telling clients they didn’t need to start practicing till shortly before a show. Or some line of b.s.
The grooms were discouraged from speaking to clients, so it’s hard to say.
Ms. Super Trainer was supposed to be giving each horse 5-6 training rides a week. And boy, did she charge like this was happening.
In reality, us grooms were putting in the rides. Ms. Trainer rode each horse maybe twice a week. We weren’t even given instructions/routine, and not allowed to jump. We just hacked around the arena or pasture so the horses “in training” would stay fit.
She lured me away from grooming at a barn where I couldn’t ride the investment Arabs, with the promise of “lots of riding, and an apprenticeship.” There certainly was lots of riding. No apprenticeship, unless you count learning to be a shyster.
Oh well. I got to ride some fiiiiiine horseflesh in pretty country. The only drawback was, Ms. Trainer was so cheap with us, she wouldn’t buy a spray nozzle for the arena hose. We had to lay down the dust with our thumbs over freezing water.
Yes yes yes ask who’ll be riding, and by all means drop in. Often. And speak to the barn staff. Just as in any business setting, the workers often know more than the execs.
I groomed for a big bucks jumper barn. I don’t know how the trainer managed it, but clients rarely dropped in. The barn of 40 would be quiet nearly all day and evening. As was the arena. I think it had something to do with telling clients they didn’t need to start practicing till shortly before a show. Or some line of b.s.
The grooms were discouraged from speaking to clients, so it’s hard to say.
Ms. Super Trainer was supposed to be giving each horse 5 training rides a week. And boy, did she charge like this was happening.
In reality, us grooms were putting in the rides. Ms. Trainer rode each horse maybe twice a week. We weren’t even given instructions/routine, and not allowed to jump. We just hacked around the arena or pasture so the horses “in training” would stay fit.
She lured me away from grooming at a barn where I couldn’t ride the investment Arabs, with the promise of “lots of riding, and an apprenticeship.” There certainly was lots of riding. No apprenticeship, unless you count learning to be a shyster.
Oh well. I got to ride some fiiiiiine horseflesh in pretty country. The only drawback was, Ms. Trainer was so cheap with us, she wouldn’t buy a spray nozzle for the arena hose. We had to lay down the dust with our thumbs over freezing water.
We include four lessons in a months training for the owner to learn how to work with their horse. If they need more work before working with their own horse, they can take lessons on one of our horses. They are welcome at the barn anytime they are in the neighborhood. We have nothing to hide and you should be able to visit with your horse when you feel like it. Of course within reasonable hours
Always watch the trainer work and ride horses before sending your horse off to them. One trainer might be right for a trail horse but not for your show horse. Different trainers for different horses. And follow you gut feeling. If it doesn’t feel right it probably isn’t.
Yes! How many times have I seen people bring a horse back from the trainer who is going nicely, and promptly mess the horse up because they can’t ride for crap?
Unless the owner/rider is a thoroughly known quantity, lessons should be a requirement. That’s the difference between dog and horse training that gripes me the worst. Owners go to dog school with their dogs, and both are trained at the same time. Horses get sent out for training without the human having to learn anything.
From the trainer’s perspective: THANK YOU Fugly!!!! I am always amazed at the crap that people allow from “trainers”, and I always wonder how the hell they do it? How do they not ride their horses every day? How do they string along a client whose horse is clearly not cut out for the job? How do they not allow unannounced visits during normal working hours? How do they ruin horses and still keep clients? What are people thinking? Listen, if the trainer is running an honest business, it will be pretty obvious. If they are serving the needs of you and your horse, it will be pretty obvious. Of course, word of mouth is the best way of finding a trainer, and watching the warmup ring at a show will speak volumes about any trainer that you are considering.
The bad guys make life SO much more difficult for those of us who want to run an ethical business and do right by the clients and horses.
well, we will just see how well this works, my 4 year old filly is going to a hunt/jump barn to be started today! i did everything mentioned except to see the trainer at a show. i was also lucky that my farrier does horses at this barn and was able to watch the trainer work without clients around, and it didn’t hurt that the trainers boyfriend is an equine vet, on site. the trainer has never worked with a morgan, but when it came down to her or the other local quarter horse “trainers” (and i am using that word loosely) she is definitely the better choice. i do not jump, but this filly has great hunter on the flat potential. it will be funny to see all of her 14.2hh self in that barn with all those 16hh and taller warmbloods! we do have to bring our own headstall-i think all of hers are far too small. so, off to pack her blankies, fly sheet, stable sheet fly mask, cookies, etc. wish us luck!
whoops, her headstalls are far too large, hee hee, 14.2 morgan with giant head. lol
The first trainer I took my mare to had all the right bells and whistles. She was a USDF Bronze and Silver Medalist, and seemed really kind and reasonable. I took some lessons from her on a Lipazzaner stallion that were great. I watched her longeing my mare and everything was fine. But then, I caught her in a lie and things went downhill from there and I took my mare home, before she ever backed her. Which I thank my lucky stars for now!
Since then, I’ve met people who took their horses to her and now are trying to straighten the problems out. People say she kept them in a frame (not sure what that means), and that’s what has messed them up. I’m just glad we got out of there before that happened.
So people, don’t be dazzled by so called awards. My best advice is go with your gut which is what I did, and it paid off.
You are dead-on, Barnkitty. I think from reading this blog alone we have learned there are asshats in every breed and discipline training horses and winning medals.
“Kept them in a frame” = kept their heads in a specific position. In dressage, this is counter to what training needs to be done to get a horse to really use its body properly. Given a horse who naturally uses its body correctly, she likely could fairly easily get her bronze and silvers…. but it was a horse who likely had a chance of competing at higher levels if it had learned to carry its body right in the first place.
I call it ‘starting at the wrong end of the horse’. My trainer has a little Paint mare who was clearly set into a frame…she has the habit of arching her neck, dropping her nose and thinking that will fool her rider into thinking she’s going correctly. Oh, yes, and she does go behind the bit, too.
I’d rather have engaged hindquarters and arched back combined with a head that is too high than the reverse…
Same here – and THAT is why I hate so much Western Pleasure/Wenglish. And dressage and saddleseat and even hunters who just don’t GET it.
There’s a wonderful little illustration in the classic book Happy Horsemanship of a horse with a balance scales in its neck, and a motor in its butt.
I really wish I knew about this site last summer. I sent my horse out to a guy last summer. Well one of the horses was “stolen” after the guy offered to buy it and the offer was refused. One came back actually violent and rearing and my horse came back (thankfully she didn’t disappear after his sale offer was refused too) way to thin, saddle sores, lip sores, has a horrible teeth grinding habit and no respect for people at all. She also had to stop. I thought after a month of riding a horse should be able to stop atleast from a walk without using the one rein stop.
The business deal with him is done and over with, his name is trashed, and I’ve restarted the horse with the help of a great trainer, who is actually teaching me things either with my horse, of it its something my horse has issues with, I start on well trained horse to perfect it before starting with my horse. I still felt like searching him after reading this today. His main riding horse in every single picture has his ear pinned, he doesn’t even have the breast collar done up right. And there is loads of pictures of teaching the horse to rear, lay down, jokingly riding drunk. Regret my horse every being there.
I just put my mare through her 30 days of training. The trainer is awesome and got my horse over some of her phobias
(like running water) without resulting to violence with her. I’m looking to put an additional 30 (maybe 60) days on her to try and ‘finish’ my girl out.
Even though I’m just training my mare to be a trail horse, I took a lot of time to research possible trainers in the area before settling on one. I know I will not be disappointed when she’s finished! And the trainer just adores her too
The trainer keeps saying if I ever want to get rid of my mare to contact her first!
I think I ended up with the best of both worlds. I have a “coach” who comes out TO MY PLACE for an hour, gives me a riding lesson AND teaches me to train my horse. We have both learned so much for 40 bucks a week. Cinco has been transformed from an excellent trail horse and mediocre athlete to a beautiful hunter pony (horse? he’s 15.2). I’ve already lost 7 pounds. I’m happy and I’m sure cinco is ecstatic.
oh, and Cinco shed some pounds as well, the coach is also revamping my horsekeeping skills by pointing out that a gelding on pasture with 24/7 access to a round bale does not need 3 lbs sweet feed. Whoops.
I agree. My trainer comes to town once a month and works with me and my horse at my place. During every lesson we get our “homework” for the next month. We video every lesson and she is eager to take email and phone questions between lessons. Before introducing her to my horse, Captain, I rode with her a few times on school horses to identify MY problems. In three lessons on school horses and three lessons with my guy, there has been a huge change for the better in the way that I ride and the way that he moves, and I have the video proof to back it up.
The only “gimmick” we have used is a haunch line and when asked she is happy to say exactly why it should help and what response we should get, and why it would be worthwhile for Captain and not every horse. We also received many warnings about how NOT to use it, what NOT to do with it, how often to use it, and when we should stop using it. Other than that it is simple snaffles, simple nosebands, well fitting saddles (she will quickly tell you if a saddle doesn’t fit), no spurs and sometimes a dressage whip. Oh, I did see her make a rider carry two glasses of water today to get him to relax and move his arms, but as the horse wasn’t affected I don’t think that counts.
This wouldn’t work for anyone starting a horse of course but for us the monthly lessons at home is working wonders!
I’m so lucky that I have never had to go trainer-shopping. So far (knock on wood) none of the horses I have acquired over the years have had issues I couldn’t overcome with good ole patience and proper handling. But I am no trainer, and ohhh lawdy do I know my day is coming…I’m long overdue.
When that day does come I am fortunate enough to know 3 different AMAZING trainers that I would not hesitate to send a horse to. Reading about the problems some people have finding just one trainer makes me realize how blessed I am. Two of the three are personal friends and I have seen first-hand, behind the scenes how they treat clients’ horses and their own. I have ridden with horses they have turned out and these are the kind of well-trained horses you want on a trail ride. The third is the president of my OHC chapter and has a great reputation. I have met many people that have used him and never heard a negative word said about him.
I will give out contact info for anyone needing a good trainer in the southwestern Ohio area
OT!!! PLEASE READ!
There is a residence in Gilbert Arizona off of Ray road and Lindsey I believe… I have driven by several times recently and thought the horses were pretty skinny… Drove by tonight and saw a chestnut that was SO UNDERWEIGHT his skin looked tucked up inder his ribs, and his back was arched like he was in a lot of pain… I came home and researched and there is no Rescue listed under that address. There IS one however listed on Lindsey Road, and I have driven by that facility and it is definitly a well run place with healthy horses, so please don’t confuse the two… Does anyone have any information on this? Fugly, do you have any contacts in the area? I have no problem reporting this, I just want to make sure I am not jumping the gun on a legitimate rescue and giving them a bad name… I am going to drive down there and stop when I get off of work tomorrow night at 5 and see if I can talk to someone there… But I am VERY concerned… My email is kesmith3 at hotmail dot com… PLEASE let me know if there are any readers on here that have seen this place and/or know whether it’s a rescue or not…
My advice would be to go ahead and report it anyway.
I have had people report me when I have had skinny horses in for whatever reason.
No problem.
You show the people round, they make a note of the evidence that proves the horse came in that state and is under the Vet (or receiving adequate care) and they go away.
Any subsequent reports are logged but not responded to.
No problemo!
Kirri, exactly! I would never be concerned if I were reported because I know I am not doing a thing wrong. If I have a rescue, I can show auction paperwork or other evidence that it just came in, plus I can show vet/farrier bills as proof I am hard at work getting it back to proper condition.
I don’t know the place, but report it if you think it’s bad. Best case scenario it’s a rescue – the animal control will know and no harm, no foul. Worst case… well, hopefully the AC will get off their asses and do something. I don’t have much faith in them here in AZ.
Slightly OT but all this talk about good trainer/bad trainer/NH gimmick trainer got me cruising the internet for bad training pictures. I found one that inspired me to make my very first demotivational poster. Of course it is from some “Parelli Natural Horsemanship” trainer’s website. (Insomnia is not my friend tonight…)
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy145/mariafrs122/NH/NH.jpg
That is absolutely BRILLIANT!!!!
LMAO! LOVE the poster!
Don’t you find it sorta ironic that the horse is standing on a table? That poor horse is probably standing up there thinking, “YOU’RE the idiot, and I’M going to be the one served for dinner in some foreign country because I never learned anything USEFUL.”
You made my night with that!
is it fair to say this is one of the worst horse selling videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfRn-hPH9oc
The horse looks somewhat well fed, but come on! BEER? they even advertise that. I was hoping this was a joke video, but they seem somewhat serious… especially if you read the comments.
Poor thing is tolerant enough to deal with the LEASH tied around it’s neck… poor thing…
So what is the best way to start looking for a trainer? What if you don’t show and don’t know where to begin “shopping” for a trainer. Would you just start looking at who is advertising? Where would a reputable trainer advertise? I am just wondering how people usually go about finding one.
I don’t pay attention to advertising. First of all, ask online on horse message boards. This is one place you can ask for a local recommendation. I don’t know if it’ll be a good one, but it’s definitely a place to start. Second, ask the people who work at your feed store and tack shop. They hear ALL the gossip and are likely to share! Then, once you have some names, you can start interviewing. You want to make sure to share YOUR training philosophy with the trainer. I made it clear that I was fine with discipline, just didn’t want abuse or overriding or twisted wire snaffles (particular peeve of mine). I made it clear that a high priority for me was the horse staying fresh and relaxed and that I would pull my horse out of training for any sign of sourness (tail wringing, ear pinning, etc.). I think that I got what I wanted because I was very clear about what that was. I had trainers that started arguing with me and one that said she couldn’t guarantee no spur tracks. Okey-dokey, we’ll be moving on now, thanks for your honesty.
Also be clear about what you want the training to accomplish. Do you want the horse trail ridden before he comes home? Are there particular problems that need to be fixed? Are you looking to create a solid trail mount or to achieve success in some competitive discipline?
Someone just e-mailed me about this place again, so since we’re on topic – how not to learn to train your own horse
http://fuglyblog.com/?p=725
Holy crap, that place looks like a circus. They just need some clowns sacking out the horses (Oh, wait. That’s the people that pay money to do crap like this…)
Anyway, come one, come all…Step right up for the greatest show on earth! Barnum and Baily’s Basement Bargian Barn Discount Horse Training! Just $7,500 for a lifetime of hospital bills!
‘Cept he uses the trick stuff to train useful things and the halter breaking to sliding stops is teaching the rider, not the horse (I went with unbroke horses. We did not do sliding stops, just some groundwork, a few easy tricks, and the first few rides [Since you are the one actually training your horse, you get to decide what you want to learn and teach], but I learned how they are taught if I ever wanted to in the future. You can learn to be a ROCKET SCIENTIST in 7-8 years, don’t make horse training more complicated than it actually is). He does take anyone with the money, and that worried me while I was there since at least two people had little to no horse experience, but he let them work with his horses and was very one on one with them. That price covers board for you and your horse, and a little haggling can get that price down quite a bit
. It was almost a third of that when I went the first time, and your second time is half price. You only pay for your own meals, and a few times the people at the barn made potluck.
I agree, MNHTA looks gimmicky as hell. The theory behind it isn’t. Actually, stopthesoring, one of the reasons he started doing this is that he was tired of getting sent to the hospital *himself* trying to fix easy things that other people had screwed up, since they didn’t know how their horses learned or had any sense of timing. He’d rather you be able to fix the little things and stop those issues from blowing up. If there were other trainers doing these sort of short supervised internships around, I’d be going to them too. There is nothing like instant useful feedback from experienced people, and he was much more helpful than most of my videos.
Another caveat when choosing a trainer: If he/she tells you the horse MUST STAY a minimum of XYZ days, be prepared to show up every single day or at least several times a week to make sure the person is actually working the horse regularly. There is a trainer/breeder in White Swan, WA who has this “minimum stay” clause and his m.o. is, he doesn’t do squat with the horse until the calendar has almost run out. THEN he works the horse and will work it if you show up during that “last few days.” If you drop by any earlier, he’s “already worked the horse” and you missed it. (Darn).
If there is a personality clash or the horse is unsound (or something happens to the trainer) and you’ve already agreed to that XYZ timeframe, tough beans. You owe for it and so what if the horse doesn’t get worked.
A qualified, aboveboard trainer will take the horse for 30 days (the usual “minimum”) and see how it works. If it doesn’t work, you pay for the time spent and take the horse home or to another trainer. And if the first trainer is REALLY legit, he/she will suggest others who might be a better match.
I searched and searched for a dressage trainer for my OTTB — and I had to make sure he was cleared by the vet and chiropractor before she would touch him. Then he spent 60 days with her and had the idea of dressage, but I learned a lot about her m.o. which was “nag, nag, nag” with no breaks or rewards during the riding (fear issues), and after more than too many years riding with her off and on, I left. She has ruined enough of her own horses as well as horses clients even dumber than I have sent her, and she’s still a backyard, lower level trainer who scores poorly as a rule — unless she has a particularly good day. (Dressage is a lot like racing. On any given day a 100-to-1 shot can win the Derby ;o)
Dressage is a lot like racing. On any given day a 100-to-1 shot can win the Derby ;o)
I believe you can only do that on the first Saturday in May
.
Oops! Bingo! and “Edit myself!”
I was thinking of the time Jerry Bailey did just that–rode some 99-1 shot and I believe it WAS the Derby that he won. Anyway, I hope my point was clear anyway. Everyone can have a really really GOOD day, and everyone can have a really crappy day. It’s the balance of good versus crappy that makes the difference. Better more “good” than crappy.
You’re thinking of the 1993 Breeder’s Cup Classic. Jerry Bailey rode Arcangues to a completely shocking victory at odds of 133-1. The tote board at Santa Anita only displayed up to 99-1 at the time, but a $2 bet to win on that absolutely unknown French horse who had never run on dirt would have netted you $269.20. And yes, I was watching that day.
Also that year, Rockamundo won the Arkansas Derby at Oaklawn, going off at 100-1.
My facts were wrong, but the point is made — on any given day …
Thanks for the facts and corrections, you guys. Wish I’d'a been there. LOVE when the underdog really wins big. And wish I’d had a buck or two on the nose of each.
Here is the story of the one and ONLY time I bet on a horse race…
It was about 10 years ago, I was about 12. My grandpa took us to the track near his home in New York. Saratoga. Grandpa wanted to introduce horse-crazy me to the joys of gambling, so he handed me $2 and told me to pick the next winner for him.
At the time I thought gambling was very, VERY wrong, so I wanted to teach Grandpa a lesson. I picked out the horse with the worst odds; “Mr John” who was at something like 50-1.
Of course, Mr John the longshot ended up winning the race!! Grandpa split the winnings with me… so much for the lesson about the foolishness in gambling!
Wonder what Mr John is up to these days… http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mr+john2
Found him standing at “Le Mesa Stallions” in Louisiana!!
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/farm.aspx?farm_no=522733
His stats are listed here: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred-breeding/sire-lists/general/Louisiana
Scroll down to #124… See that ONE win? I got to witness it firsthand!!
I hadn’t thought of that horse in years, but I’m glad he’s still around! I feel like a nerd for getting mushy-hearted over one little longshot TB from ten years ago
Hey I think that’s awesome!
I had to find a trainer for my two rescues because I was too old to attempt their training myself. The guy was recommended. They were used to being saddled, bridled and ground driven. He rode them both the next day. One wouldn’t stand to be mounted so he tied her head and hurt her ear. Four years later she still thinks she has a sore ear aat times. Everytime I called they were too busy. He brought them home 6 weeks later. I guess he only rode them clockwise in the round pen as neither horse would turn left. Seems he started a full time job a couple of days after taking them on. After half a dozen rides one bucked me off so I left them for 2 years until I got a new hip. They were again sent for a refresher to a trainer that was recommended by several people. Had to pay up front. I made 3 appointments to see them worked. He either wasn’t there or was busy with someone else. I did see one mare ridden by a young girl. After 30 days I brought her home. All she did was chew the bit and stumble. Thirty days of going around and around in a round pen must have been too much for her. I saw him drag a bag of straw over the other mare and make her move her feet around. Somehow she injured her hip “hip was out”. I don’t believe she was ever ridden. She came home very defensive.
Good news is, I have finally found a real trainer for the mare that bucks. She is being trail ridden and worked to improve her hind leg muscles. They phone every couple of weeks and have invited me to come and see her worked. I ride the mare that chewed the bit and stumbled on the mountain. It has been really hard work riding her as she is spooky but she is greatly improved from last year. She is going to the same trainer for fine tuning as soon as the other mare comes home.
Sadly, the bad trainers out number the good ones.
s
I have a three year old Hanoverian filly that I am looking to have started this summer. I have found someone to do it and I have done a lot of research on the trainer I am sending her to. I bred her and I have done a lot ground work with her. She is gorgeous and I think she is very talented so I am very concerned with her training and experiences. He is half an hour away from me so I can visit often. I know many people in the horse community and I have gotten good feedback from everyone (no execptions!) from vets, other trainers and clients. Since I am overly paranoid about my fillies future, I am taking my research one step further. I am taking one of my older more broke horses to one his upcoming horsemanship clinics. If things go well then, he will have another in his barn soon:)
i know this is off topic but WTF
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/eutha_neigh_sia_rage_at_nypd_big_R9dNlzsZF6XhkYSiK8x6yJ
A note about trainers that ties into the NH stuff…
If someone tells me about a trainer that’s so great because he uses “Famous Trainer/Clinician” method, I’m instantly leery. It’s almost a sure sign of inexperience, brainwashing, or a con artist at work.
All the good “methods” do the same damn stuff, so to slap a brand name on any of them is suspect.
Just out of curiosity….what is an appropriate PRICE to pay for training? I’m sure there’s a range…so I should say that personally I am looking for help starting a 6 year old unbroke mare that I found myself in possession of. She’s cute, but scared of everything (including grooming – she was an embryo recipient mare from a large herd and was “kicked out” after complications with her first foaling). I’m just interested in getting her to the point where she knows the basics of both ground manners and riding. And I know for sure I’m not the one who can do it. I’m worried that if I don’t put the money in to her now, she’ll end up in a bad way because of knowing NOTHING (and i am not sure I can keep her because I can’t have a dangerous horse around and her fear makes her dangerous).
What would be the right way to ask a trainer for this situation?
This is very location-based. The range in the PNW is typically between about $600 and $1000 a month (including full care board). Far more expensive in some parts of the East coast.
I am in the process of searching for a trainer for my 4yo TWH gelding that I want to start under saddle this summer. I am going to interview a trainer today, and another tomorrow! I’m excited!
What I’ve seen for price- I am in the middle of the state of Georgia, and have considered trainers in surrounding states… the trainers I’ve talked to who had good reputations and good references from people I actually know, have been in the $500 to $700 a month range. The more expensive ones include full board. The cheapest one, at $500, requires you to provide feed and hay, or pay for them separately, so really that $500 becomes $600 to $700 depending on what and how much you feed.
Keep in mind, this is for 30 days of “colt starting” for an unbroke horse. Pretty much all of them have promised they will work the horse for 5 days a week, and that they start off with groundwork, so it’s very possible that my first 30 days will only include a week or two of actual riding. That’s something to keep in mind when looking at having a young (or any unbroke) horse trained- can you handle finishing the training of a green horse? If you can’t, you need to be considering more than 30 days!
Many of these trainers have different rates for already broke horses, or for specific tasks like finishing a horse for a specific show discipline, etc.
One other tip- take a friend along when you go visit a trainer’s place for the first time, somebody to help you scope things out. They might notice things you miss, and they can also help you not make spur-of-the-moment decisions! Don’t commit to a trainer until you’ve had time to go home and think it over, and until you’ve interviewed all the likely candidates on your list (you do have a list, right?).
To be fair about the ‘kid trainers’ — there comes a point when the horse needs to learn to generalize the trainers cues to ALL riders, since everyone rides slightly differently. So yes, the kid isn’t training the horse, but the horse is still learning that pressure from THIS side always means go THAT way, even if applied slightly differently than they are used to. Hard to do that transitioning if the owner is only coming on the weekends, and with older owners and hotter horses, it’s sometimes better to have a bouncy young kid doing the first test rides. It SHOULD, however, always be under the trainer’s watchful eye, not just a kid randomly riding a horse in the arena.
PS – If anyone knows a trainer(s) near Scranton PA (NEPA) – I’m all ears!
If you are stilllooking for a trainer…email me! royalslegacyfarm@yahoo.com
Super duper post!
Can I add one itty bitty thing? When you get your horse home and you start riding him/her and showing and you find a new “invention” or technique thats supposed to make your horse lope like a dream or keep his head just so or fix whatever it is that you just arent 100% satisfied with…..ANd your horse developes a not so desirable behavior or really starts to go backwards in training BE HONEST with your trainer. Tell them what you used and did to your horse that made them this way. Withholding the truth will only prolong the retraining and cost you more.
Of coarse you could avoid it all together by not trying any of these without consulting your trainer first, but trainers all know you will. Its the nature of the beast
Very good point!
And in the case of gaited horses (well, maybe all horses, but especially gaited horses!) if the trainer tells you to keep a particular angle/shoe on the horse KEEP IT. Don’t allow your farrier who trims every horse the way he wants to override the recommendation from the trainer. Shoes and trims are “equipment” for the trainers — adjusting breakover can have a HUGE effect on performance.
OMG Yes!! I saw a farrier and a trainer get into a huge yelling match at a horse show because of this. It wasnt even a gaited horse, but the farrier told the owner the horse could go barefoot and to pull the shoes a few days before the horse show….Owner saw a chance to save a few dollars, farriers wife shows the same circuit, horse hobbled tender footed around warm up ring……Oh boy it was a big ole fight
References- ask if you can speak to some of their customers when looking for a trainer. If they can’t provide you with so happy people look else where.
Off topic but I saw this horse and could only say wow, looks like a giraffe horse cross. http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/1687625482.html
Fitting those withers into a saddle could be tricky!! …He looked pretty at the canter.
I feel bad for this horse — he’s been well taken care of, but again, he’s 19, has an arthritic knee, and isn’t suitable for a beginner. The owner is trying to be responsible, but I don’t see rainbows and unicorns in this guy’s future. It bugs me that “I don’t have room for him anymore because I bought something else.” Great, replace him as your riding horse, but don’t try to dump him for $500 or best offer because he doesn’t suit anymore and you don’t want to feed him.
Find somewhere else to keep him, euthanize him, but don’t just sell him on to what you think is a good home and forget about him. I hope someone steps up and gives him a good home.
I lucked into a fabulous trainer after re entering the horse world after raising my kids and graduating college. I purchased a few trail horses and then decided to “live the dream” of owning a reining/reined cowhorse. I purchased a two-year-ole filly from a breeder/trainer. I had been scouring my area looking for a good trainer but didn’t have the connections I have now so I wasn’t having much luck. When it came time to exchange money and papers, he asked me if I had anyone in mind to train her and I told him I wasn’t having much luck. He said he would like the opportunity if I would consider him and since he raised her and a few generations on both sides I thought he would be a good bet. Let me tell you, that was the best thing that could have happened to her and me. He is fabulous! He doesn’t promise the moon and starts and is very realistic and honest. She is performing spectacularly, has won many ribbons and some money in reining and versatility. He trains the horses to be versatile and they can work cattle, rope, rein, do obstacles, etc. When he gives her time off, he charges me less. He sends video of her performing and at shows, and pics when I request them. The bad thing for me is he is in CO and I am in FL. I have a colt that will be going off in the fall and I am seriously thinking about sending him there too. I have a few more trainers I want to interview but so far, none of them seem right for my prospect for now. This to me is like sending your kid off to college! He will be in training a minimum of two years and possibly longer if his show career takes off. When you are making that type of investment of time and money, you have to be careful. Plus to me, it is imperative to get them with the right person for their well being both phisically and mentally.
Semi off topic. But I woke up to a beautiful little filly running around the pasture this morning. Mom showed zero signs last night so she was put out on the field. With the grooming blog that was posted recently, I thought everyone would die laughing from the amount of whiskers this little girl has. It’s a real fu man chu!
Cute! Talk about not showing signs– I’ve only had one baby experience, when my mom bred her adorable fjord mare. It was the mare’s first pregnancy and our first time with a pregnant mare. We knew the mare should be due any day, but she never appeared to show any signs that the vet told us about. One evening, after she’d been perfectly normal all day long, we were out there feeding grain and hay. She was being her typical self, walking circles in the stall and looking out the window at us, licking her lips in excitement for her grain. We fed all the horses and then peeked in at her and noticed that while she was eating she kept alternating resting one back leg, then the other, like she was very uncomfortable. The vet had told us that most mares, if about to deliver, would either not show interest in their food or would eat a little, then walk away and then eat a little and then walk away. Not this girl! She just kept chowing down and dancing on her back feet, like she was doing all she could to hold that baby in until she finished her dinner! We were like, oh my god what is she doing?? Sure enough, as soon as she finished cleaning her plate, she walked to the middle of the stall and popped that baby out!
Awwww!! She’s BEAUTIFUL. And the whiskers are adorable!! Congrats!
My neighbor set a gelding to Clinton Anderson..yep, the big name trainer, naively thinking he actually did he did the training. She already had done lots of (probably too much) ground work, had him saddled….the issue was he was spooky and quick. After 2 months of excuses she was told that he needed a break to heal up from cinch sores, (of course paying board), he was then ‘reassigned’ to a different apprentice, 30 more days of problems and she finally talked with Clinton…he personally would evaluate what was happening.
Outcome…the horse was too unpredictable, ‘they’ could ride him but it wouldn’t be safe for the owner and dangerous to sell him, she could drive all the way to Ohio and pick him up but they recommended euthanasia there and that’s what she did, ( yes, she paid for that too).
I think there are definitely dangerous horses but these problems are almost always man made….but holy cow to pay for that mess ?
I own the sire to him, a Native Dancer bred horse who took no crap from anyone, if he got the idea things were unfair you had a fight going quick. But ‘explained’ lessons were never forgotten. He is now a gelding and at 14yo I converted him into a driving horse which we both love. But I know his ‘attitude’ is still there…..I had a trainer (ex after the fight) help me with the conversion and one day the trainer went overboard pushing an issue and I warned not to go further but it did….yelling, jerking and finally the whip at which point the trainer found himself dragged to the far end of the arena, I went over and took the horse who at that point was really PO’d. We calmly went back to our ‘stand and behave’ spot till he relaxed. I’d seen it with that horse before, you can correct him but do not punish.
I would guess that is what happened at Clinton Anderson’s place, no one there stepped back, they just pushed till he was ruined. How sad.
Clinton Anderson does not understand how horses learn best. I can teach a horse to move away from me in a couple of minutes by me just pointing my finger or twiddling my fingers at the horse’s side. I never hit the horse with a “carrot” stick or swing a rope at him. I never upset the horse, the horse is not freaked out and has not been jerked on tired out or run around in circles. I really do not like watching him teach a horse to “yield his hindquarters” or flex his head around over and over. He also does not understand that if you make the neck of the horse hypermobile, it creates a corresponding tightness in SI. I do not like watching him and other trainers work because they are all about confrontation! This is what I see as the problem with much of “natural horsemanship.” It takes sides. Its the cowboys vs the horses and the horses always lose. There is no reason for training to be confrontational. It creates fear and fear blocks learning. Horses learn faster when they are calm. They like it better too. My horses enjoy their time with me so much they get jelous of each other. My horses like to go in the trailer because I have eliminated their fear of the trailer and we go fun places! Linda Tellington-Jones uses the Golden Rule of Horsemanship which says: Treat your horse the way you would like to be treated. It works! it works really, really well!
That is a good observation about the confrontations and I agree with you – there is no reason for it. I hate all the “flooding” crap where they just flag, flag, flag the poor horse. Just stooooop.
Unbridled– I like that. They are living, feeling, thinking creatures too, and when we use them for our own amusement, we must never forget that. Confrontation and domination are not how you make a partnership.
And if your horses are fighting over who gets to go out with you, you must be doing something right
I totally agree. I used to ride with a few Parelli folks who were the same way. They appeared so condescending toward the horse, and they always seemed to pick the wrong battles at the wrong time just to prove something. Personally, I once had a supervisor who was the same way to everyone who worked there, and we all HATED that guy! He was the biggest douchebag ever. I do not want my horse to think I am a douchebag. I teach my horse, reward him, correct him if needed but quickly move on from that, and we have fun with it and he loves me. Why would anyone want to do it any other way???
“I do not want my horse to think I am a douchebag.”
I need to start keeping a list of the best one-liners from my comments. That was awesome!
OMG.
You’ve summed it up.
THANK YOU.
SI is sacro illiac, Unbridled?
I had a recent experience with my trainer, who I consider pretty good, that convinced me that even the professionals often have a lapse of judgement. Re-backing a young horse after a lot of time off with no warm up in an outdoor environment = fireworks! And a broken saddle after her big ol’ crow hop broke the billets. So the rest of the day was back to square one. Young horses get really un-nerved when people fall off them — they have a trust issue after that. I am not a horse communicator, but while walking her out, she was clearly telling me that “life is not fair!”
George Morris remarked in an article that we now have a generation of hyperflexed, “rubbernecked” horses.
He maintains that a horse’s neck should be more like the rudder of a ship, with the flexion occurring mostly at the poll.
Did the horse have problems before they went to Clinton Anderson? What was so bad that they had to kill him?
I always thought Clinton Anderson was rough with the horses, but what I knew of his training made sorta sense. I guess I’m grossly uninformed. I’m sorry about the poor horse.
About that horse’s sire–My old mare, and actually many of the hot-bloods I’ve had don’t tolerate unfair treatment either. I’ve always gotten along well with them, I think it’s made me a better rider. I always try to see things from the horses’ POV. My old mare and I have been through a lot and gotten through some crazy stuff, but she respects and trusts me. She also does not put up with crap, and she’s willing to fight for herself. We get along great, but if she was the horse in that Linda Parelli video with the one-eyed horse, I’m sure she couldn’t have guessed what that woman wanted either, and if she couldn’t pull away, if that woman kept hitting her and yanking her around and chasing her for no apparent reason to her, my mare might have gone after her.
Some redneck got the idea to show me how to make her move her hip over once, going into her stall at a show against my wishes and started waving a bucket at her, and smacking her when she didn’t respond right–she couldn’t get away from him or do what he wanted, I was a kid and couldn’t get him out, though I was about to attempt some violence with a pitchfork, but she finally just pinned him to the wall with her hip and went back to her hay serenely, while he flailed and swore impotently. Looking back now, I can laugh now and I’m sooo glad it wasn’t me doing the bug impression. Now she’s carried tiny tots and someone who spent most of their time in a wheelchair who had a lot of involuntary muscle movements around safely, so don’t think she’s a psycho, she was actually really good at telling when that person was actually cuing her and when she was having spasm. But my er point was that some horses don’t work for the “cowboy” wannabes, they are smarter and have a strong sense of self and self-preservation, and a tendency to ask “Why?” when given a question. I know my mare would be a timebomb in the wrong hands. I’m glad the sire had you to treat him fairly.
One of my big issues with Clinton is that if you actually train your horse, it would be an odd situation indeed where you’d NEED a one-rein stop. Yet all the Clintonites do it nonstop. To me, a one-rein stop is just the old-fashioned pulley rein that you use when you’re on a runaway. Being on a runaway SHOULD NOT HAPPEN OFTEN. If it DOES, YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG.
On the other hand, it bothers me that so many instructors don’t teach the one rein stop at ALL. I have friends who don’t know how to do it…and its a tool you NEED. No, you should not have to deal with a runaway often, but ANY horse can turn into one with the right provocation.
Heh. My trainer has a little mare who will try and run away with you if she’s fed up…as an evasion. But she always telegraphs it so badly that I can just lock her down and say ‘Don’t you dare’. She always seems so disappointed
.
My lessons instructor uses a lot of “Clinton” methods, including the one-rein stop. She has us practice it a little more than I would like, but it’s because she wants it to become second nature. That way, if the horse is running off and the rider is in total panic-mode, the one-rein stop will be the automatic reaction. She is a safety FANATIC, though.
(Yes, all kids are required to wear a helmet if they are doing anything beyond petting a horse from the other side of the fence. I have seen it enforced many, many times, and she even reminds us adults to think about using head protection.)
Her mantra is the John Lyons quote, “Human safety is first. Horse safety is second. Everything else is third.”
For those of you who have difficulty with the western saddle – try a cutting saddle. They are often deep seated and some are more narrow than others – you can get customs designed for women (I am narrow myself and often have trouble with a saddle being too wide for me). They also have riggings designed for getting closer to the horse. If you’re concerned about stiffness, buy used! Saddles improve with age and use (note that I didn’t say abuse) and if you find one already broken in, it will be easier to break in further.
As for the trainers – I’ve done some training of horses and people (not a professional, though) and I have found that the best thing is to train them together… I worked with one guy in particular who wanted to ride better and wanted to have his horse go better. I worked his horse and he watched (I talked through why I was doing what) and then I put him on my broke horse and taught him what things were supposed to feel like. We’d swap off every other session so he learned as much as the horse. As I said, I’m not a professional, so this was just a few times a week that we would meet, but over a few months, we still made decent progress and they learned together – no tricks, no surprises. Just time and hard work.
The trainers I’ve worked with (ridden under) did the same things – I was there while the horse was worked so I could learn too. I learned the most from them – it is an investment of both money and time. You’ve got to be involved in it! A trainer can only do so much with your horse and then he’ll give him back to you and you go screw him up again…then it’s back to the trainer…expensive cycle if you’re not involved! It’s best to learn while your horse does!
While saddles are soooo much a matter of personal preference and they must fit the horse and the rider, I have to say I love the M L Leddy saddles because they are not stiff even from the get-go. They are pricey, but I have found them to be worth the investment.
I’ve posted before that the best Western saddle I ever rode in was a vintage (1940s or 50s) Mac Pherson.
Here’s a very similar one on eBay that I’ve been lusting after: http://tinyurl.com/y9jsvnw
Same tooling, even. It was so soft, and fit me just right – the slick leather seat wasn’t an issue even on fairly rugged trail rides. It had the old pin-type stirrup adjustment, with the little wire going thru the pins.
It is absolutely essential that the trainer works with the rider!!!!!!! It’s not always the trainers fault either. If the rider isn’t committed enough to do that, well….
Good stuff to know, now if I can just find a trainer to fit the criteria, and also one I can afford, which seems very unlikely at this time. Maybe after I upgrade my work situation, hah. Glad to know I’m not nuts about wanting to see the facility or horses the trainer worked with.
Someone recc’d a trainer to me, he has good creds competition wise, but I have never seen him work with a horse, but I have seen him have an angry tantrum in my place of business over us not carrying something he wanted. I don’t like the idea of someone who feels so entitled and actually had an angry throwing things and yelling fit in public being in charge of my opinionated, independent filly from a family that does not put up with unfair treatment.
I’ve been through the trainer who is afraid to actually get on the horse and does groundwork forever–my mom was paying for the training and no matter the opinion of the family, she was determined to let the trainer take as long as she felt she needed to get on the horse–even though the horse in question was already *broke*, green broke, but already riding. Horse ended her training when Mom’s job vanished, still terrible to handle from the ground, only had about two weeks under saddle work done after three months, but she could round-pen like crazy.
She was also lame when we went to get her.
Also, what do you let go? I know someone that went to visit her horse, found the entire corner of her horse’s mouth was raw, an area about three inches wide. Horse’s tongue had a bloody spot too. My reaction: Get the trailer. The trainer’s assistant insisted the horse had pulled away in the long lines and fallen, friend kept her horse there anyway, and horse came home without any ill effects so far, despite my misgivings. I wouldn’t have kept my horse there after that, but I do know horses can do stuff like that. Horse didn’t learn much either, but came home with happy friendly personality intact. And loves to be ridden, and thinks they know everything about riding now and you shouldn’t ever take out any other horse but them. Any horse that comes running when they see you with a lead or a saddle can’t be sour about riding. But it could have gone bad….
“Also, what do you let go? I know someone that went to visit her horse, found the entire corner of her horse’s mouth was raw, an area about three inches wide. Horse’s tongue had a bloody spot too. My reaction: Get the trailer. The trainer’s assistant insisted the horse had pulled away in the long lines and fallen, friend kept her horse there anyway, and horse came home without any ill effects so far, despite my misgivings. I wouldn’t have kept my horse there after that, but I do know horses can do stuff like that.”
If the trainer called me and said, hey, your horse had a freak-out in the long lines today and she hurt her mouth, then I’d be fine with leaving the horse there unless it kept happening. If this is the excuse provided ONLY AFTER the owner noticed, get the trailer.
I got my trainer here in Virginia on the recommendations of another Akhal Teke owner. He would not be obvious first choice for a Teke – he raises Vanners, rides rodeo bulls, and wears a cowboy hat almost as big as he is, with a long feather in it – but he understands every horse as an individual, listens very carefully to what I want, discusses what he thinks he’ll be able to do, and delivers what he promises. He is wonderfully patient. When I get a horse back from him, the horse is sweet, curious, respectful in a very friendly way, quietly confident, and doesnt mind being touched anywhere. And whatever my problem with the horse was is gone as if it had never existed.
If I end up taking the little Kiger stud who came up in an OT comment a few days ago on this blog, he will go to the Virginia cowboy. My half-Teke, half-Arab three-year-old is being started in Colorado but I’ll bring her to Virginia to finish.
Prices? $650 per month in Colorado, $850 in Virginia, all included.
I created this account for anonymity. I have an odd training concern I am hoping some of you here can help me out with.
What do you do if you feel like your trainer disregards your horse? Not in the sense of not properly caring for the horse, but in the sense of doesn’t think much of the horse, or perhaps thinks the horse is beneath them?
My horse has spent several months with a very very good trainer and has made a lot of progress. The last few weeks we saw some hurdles that hopefully the chiropractic visits and the addition of some dietary supplements will help to cure. Since then, my horse has taken it easy and has been allowed to just relax and recoup, with lunging work instead of riding work. My horse is an arabian, the trainer has shown arabian before but has since switched to primarily Warmbloods. They compete at highly rated National and International Jumping competitions.
The trainer was happy to take on my horse this winter, and the first month they worked together, the trainer really seemed to like my horse. But the last few weeks, I’ve felt a bit of increasing tension. The trainer is quick to praise other horses in their program: I rarely hear any praise for mine. When I approach the trainer about shows I am hoping to go to, I feel as if I don’t have the trainer’s attention, and that the Class A and Regional events I want to attend hold no interest for the trainer at all. I am one of the trainer’s highest paying clients, yet I feel as if I get the least amount of interest or attention. My horse’s ‘work day’ is often cut short: I pay for an hour of training 5 days a week, and frequently my horse is only worked 20 minutes. I understand that some of that is due to my horse’s chiropractic issues, but I also know it would be good for my horse to be walked around in hand, which the trainer could easily do (I do it nearly every day). The trainer has come up with several nicknames for my horse, all of which point out what they consider to be a ‘fault’ when it is simply a difference between Warmbloods and arabians (nothing conformational, and I believe that these are an attempt to be cute but it would be akin to an arabian trainer calling a client’s QH a blockhead). Lastly, I watch the trainer chat and laugh with other clients frequently. When I approach them with a question or an update regarding my horse and his progress, I receive short responses that only answer my question or concern, and sometimes a curt dismissal.
I feel as if my horse and myself are being regarded as unworthy. I am paying a LOT of money and am frustrated with how things have been going the past few weeks. My feelings are hurt, and my horse has become a bit sour (though this probably stems from the aforementioned chiropractic issues).
What do I do? Am I just sensitive and need to let this all go? If not, how do I approach the situation? I really like the progress this trainer has made with my horse up until the last 3 or so weeks, when it seemed like all of this began. If that can be continued, I would rather not go. But it’s beginning to get uncomfortable to go see my horse, my horse also seems agitated, and that breaks my heart.
Go to an Arabian trainer – just be super careful to pick a good, honest one.
Very honestly, it sounds like your horse is the redheaded stepchild in that barn and sometimes it is just like that! Some people can be all-breed trainers, some can’t. Some are just TOO hung up on THEIR breed being the ONLY worthy breed. The next thing is usually that they try to sell you a horse of the Desirable Breed to replace yours. You are not being treated fairly, nor is your horse. Take your money elsewhere.
It sounds like you may want to find an Arabian trainer. These days there are plenty who do the sport horse stuff, if that is where your interest lies, and even some main ring trainers that will cross over, if you are interested in both. Before deciding to move your horse, though, schedule a meeting with the current trainer and express your concerns very openly. He or she may have a good explanation for things. For example, most Arabians will not take kindly to a full hour of real arena work per day. If that is why he doesn’t get his hour, then ask if he can be handwalked, put on the hotwalker if they have one, or ponied if they do that there. Perhaps you get the cold shoulder because the trainer feels that you are being critical and they are afraid that you will disapprove of anything they say. I can also speak from experience that if I am “a little too polite” when speaking about someone’s horse, it pretty much means that it is not one of my favorites; so maybe this person thinks that these little nicknames that are hurtful to you are actually their way of showing affection.
With all that said, you are paying the same money as everyone else and you deserve to be treated with respect and professionalism. Don’t settle for anything less. If you have the meeting and nothing changes, leave
I haven’t had time to read all of the comments. I’ve been busy lately and just can’t always keep up! But I just want to share one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to trainers. Unless you really are a BNT you really really need to return phone calls and if you have a website with a “contact us” page you really really need to answer your emails as well. The thing about horse people is that they are usually not “people” people. But if you are going to run a business then you need to just get over it and make the phone calls, etc. Honestly, I don’t know how some people stay in business. I know you trainers are all very busy and I respect that. But seriously, how difficult and time consuming is it to just simply say/write “I’m sorry I just don’t have time to help you right now.” ? I have contacted at least four different trainers over the past two months. Only one of them has bothered to respond. Maybe it’s me? I don’t see how, though, since I’m new to the area and don’t know anyone and my emails and phone calls are always short and direct.
This is the response I got from one trainer:
Yes, i remember! How are you? I’d love to show you around, any time usually works for me unless i’m riding!!! I do have a few spots available including a spot for training. My website is xxx Give me a call and we’ll set up a time to meet or email is great as well. Thanks for considering me,
I think that may have taken a whole minute or two to type. It’s really not that hard! And even if her response had been something along the lines of… “unfortunately I don’t have any openings for training at this time” it would still be so much better than no response at all!