If you’re a regular reader, you know by now that I laugh at the entire idea that you can train every horse without ever resorting to physical discipline. Sure, there are some sensitive horses who will consider the right body language or the tone of your voice to be punishment enough, but there are also plenty of alpha mares, spoiled colts and otherwise that need the occasional smack with the flat of your hand to be reminded you are not their doormat — and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. As for whips and crops, I consider them to be tools that are completely appropriate when used sparingly and judiciously. So today I want to talk about how you know someone is not using discipline in a judicious and constructive manner. Fortunately (well, unfortunately for the horse involved), I was sent a video that is a perfect illustration of unfair and totally not constructive discipline.
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This is a guy named Michael Morrissey on a horse called Crelido. Now, since we’re not head on to the horse, it’s a little difficult to figure out where any attempt to refuse began, but it sure looks to me like he was never even remotely straight to the jump to begin with. You know, it’s one thing to pop the horse with the crop when you put him straight to the jump and at the last minute he says forget you and does the reining horse slide. But for heaven’s sake, most beginner Pony Clubbers could have seen you weren’t getting over that fence from five or six strides out. It sure looked like plain old steering failure on a high-headed chargey horse to me, although of course I’m open to seeing the incident from other angles if there’s more video out there.
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Regardless of what actually caused the refusal, the first thing that jumped out to me – and should to you, too, if you compete over fences – is that you can’t hit a horse that many times. You can’t. One of the first things I remember learning was that more than 3 strikes and you are out, as in, the judge will kick your tantrum-throwing ass out of the ring and you have to do the trot of shame out the gate at which point any trainer worth their salt rips you a new one in front of everybody, if not bodily snatches your stupid butt off your horse.
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Now, this didn’t happen at some little open show in the boonies, where maybe someone didn’t know the rules. This happened at the USEF WEG Selection Trials, during the Saturday night Grand Prix, in front of thousands of spectators. Yet, did Mr. Morrissey get excused from the ring? He did not. In fact, no one made any mention of the incident anywhere in the equestrian media coverage of the event until a Canadian blogger, who was rather disgusted by Mr. Morrissey’s tantrum, ran with it. Check it out. I like this girl. Anyone who has a “naughty list” on her dressage web site is a friend of mine!
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Everybody seems to want this to go away. The show committee actually deleted Morrissey from their official results online, as if he hadn’t even been there. The FEI is claiming they disqualified him per their rules but, gee, he’s still placed 35th in their official show results. Hmmm. I did a little research on this guy. Oh, look, he’s got quite the royal pedigree when it comes to horse showing. And, if I’m not mistaken, his own P.R. people. Gosh, they aren’t going to be too happy to see this blog, are they?
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I guess no one else is going to ask it, so I will. Hey, Mikey? What the fuck is wrong with you? Surely you realized you had at least partial blame for that refusal? Surely by the time you are riding Grand Prix jumpers, you are familiar with the rules and, I would hope, understand how utterly foolish you look having a tantrum in the ring like a small child in a grocery store who did not get the candy he wanted? That is how you looked, Mikey. Like someone who is not a very good rider or trainer and really needs some anger management classes. You looked like a jerk. You were extremely unfair to the horse, and you sure didn’t make your sport look good with that performance. You owe everybody in the show jumping world an apology and you owe that poor horse a month off with weekly massages.
It really isn’t that hard to figure out what too much and too harsh is when it comes to discipline. Anytime you’re disciplining in anger or frustration, it’s going to be a mistake. Discipline should be swift, brief and fair. You rule out pain, you rule out genuine fear and if what’s left is a horse who’s having a stubborn or aggressive moment, it’s completely fair to discipline as long as it’s very clear to the horse why he’s being disciplined and – listen up, this is important – there is a behavior he can choose which will stop the discipline. For example, I have met a number of buckers who were cured simply by learning that every buck resulted in a smack from the crop and going forward willingly resulted in no smacks from the crop.  Cause-and-effect that every horse can understand. This isn’t cruel or abusive. Whaling the crap out of a horse who is going forward toward the jump just like you wanted him to do just because you seem to want to make a point/vent your frustration/are angry because now you’re not winning the Grand Prix – that’s cruel and abusive. What could that horse have done to make the beating stop? Nothing. There was no alternative behavior he could have shown between when the beating started and the jump that would have made the beating stop. That’s when you know you’re wrong. Morrissey should have known it — and should never have done it. He’s no beginner, he knew better, and I hope he does get some formal discipline for this.
Now, to balance out the bad with some good – check out this show jumper:
Cute! He looks like he is so excited to be out there jumping the big ones. And I like how his rider laughs and pets him. Nice partnership there. You could learn from it, Mikey.
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What, was he drunk? He steered the horse wrong, then the horse gets whipped like crazy for his mistake. Why are these organizations too afraid to actually enforce their own rules? Do they think it will upset people or make them lose money? The FEI will DQ for little things, but they are going to let the horse-beating rule slide?
I’m totally for a very bad horse getting a smack, heck, I’m for a bad child getting a smack too, which parents can hardly do anymore for fear of child abuse charges. There’s assertive and being a bully, and that dude’s crossed the line here. I’d like to strap a couple hundred pounds to that dude’s back and then chase him around the course with a whip, see how he likes it.
In contrast–the happy show jumper is so cute! I love the “Woo-hoo!” jump he does at the end, and how the rider just lets him be happy. Didn’t Milton always have to buck after a course?
Dude, you should visit a Midwestern Wal-mart someday, where I swear families take their kids just so the parents can “whup yer fuckin’ ass.” And I quote.
Anyway, here’s a very interesting study – it’s possible that judicious corporal punishment in children UNDER age 6 is very beneficial. I tend to concur, esp. in matters involving personal safety (running out in the street, etc.), since very small children aren’t the most sophisticated thinkers. Crafty, yes, but not sophisticated. Now, if they’re just having a “I’m very tired/confused/hungry/overwhelmed” meltdown, I tend to do the time out thing, because corporal punishment is just going to escalate an already negative situation. Something to break the downward spiral of drama IS sometimes necessary, like a joke, a weird noise, maybe even a squirt from a squirt gun or spray bottle.
This approach seems to also work with dogs and horses.
You can even see right after the refusal that the horse moves towards the center of the jump, and it even looks like (though I wouldn’t swear to it) he starts to attempt it.
But no. He had to pull him aside and beat him, rather than just letting the horse take the jump a little sloppy, or circling around for another attempt calmly.
He could have been drunk, actually — well, no, I lied. There is a high likelihood he was norting cocaine. This is Grand Prix jumping, some of those people put as much money up their noses as they do into their training.
And cocaine makes a lot of people, especially people who were assholes to begin with, into violently narcissistic egotists. The combination of money and assholery — they never hear the word ”no” and have their streets gilded with 24k gold — with a drug habit that requires a lot of money to sustain and brings out the bad sides of one’s personality to boot … yep, perfect recipe for a good old time.
So there you have it. He was possibly snorting cocaine, and is definitely an asshole.
So, was that low little jump that the horse eventually jumped after getting whacked 17 times, the jump he was supposed to jump? It seems kind of weird to throw a 2-foot jump in among a course with 4-foot plus jumps, you can’t blame the horse for thinking he was supposed to jump the wing as a skinny–and the rider wasn’t steering to him to either one!
Apparently, if I as a rider don’t know the course (let alone having planned how to jump it) the thing to do is whack my horse until the correct map of the course jumps into his mind.
One little pop on the shoulder if the horse is sucking back before the jump, and no more than 3 whacks behind the girth to punish a refusal– assuming you had your horse straight to the jump and in a distance possible to jump it safely–is what I was taught in Pony Club long ago.
I believe it was the water “fence” in the video. It’s low, but very wide and filled (of course) with water. The horse has to strech over it and land beyond the white tape on the other side in order to jump it clear.
That was the liverpool, or water element I guess you could call it. At the level represented in this video, the spread of this liverpool would probably be between 12 and 16 feet… so the horse definitely needs the rider to bring him in straight to the fence. Which he didn’t.
The jump wasn’t a little fence, but an open water — very wide.
Now, I agree 1000% that the rider was excessive and offensive and throwing a little tantrum — but I stopped watching the rider and rewatched the video several times comparing the line the rider was riding on both approaches. THEY ARE THE SAME LINE — until, during the first approach, the horse runs out. It’s the horse that changes direction.
Since someone has posted that the horse has a known aversion to water, I’m surprised the rider wasn’t more alert to the possibility. At his skill level, I would expect him to feel the resistance the *instant* it began, and take immediate action as soon as the deviation from the line started. That was the rider’s FIRST mistake — by the time he even used the crop, it was way too late to punish for the actual misbehavior. When the rider DID discipline, it was the wrong time, the wrong amount, the wrong attitude — everything wrong. Instead of punishing the misbehavior, he punished the horse for HIS own inattention to business.
On the happy jumper clip — I particularly like how the rider goes with the whole thing, not catching the horse with bit or spurs during the buck.
You can’t see it from this angle, but it’s a water jump — wide rather than tall. The water is on the other side of the little jump. A commenter below mentioned that this horse has serious issues with water jumps and has been passed from rider to rider because of it.
Yeah, but he’s had him at least 4 years – there is an article about him competing that horse in 2006. So this is NOT a new team and he KNOWS his horse’s quirks.
Poor horse. You wonder what this rider does to it in training when the cameras aren’t on him.
He should have known better — he’s not a clueless beginner, or someone riding in a developing nation. (Some things I’ve seen travelling in Asia are bad. But horse-owners are often uneducated and impoverished themselves).
This is a world apart. The organizers of the event should also be ashamed. After all, they are a professional body.
My teacher didn’t let me use a crop in the beginning — not before I mastered leg, seat, hand and voice aids. Then she explained when it was OK, or not OK — plus which horses needed it less or more.
I have no problem with controlled, judicious crop use. After all, animals communicate with each other physically, too. Sometimes, a quick tap is more merciful than endless kicking or yanking on the reins.
But this is ridiculous.
Thanks for posting. I hope it causes this guy to rethink how he rides.
However, if this is your position on the use of crops/whips then you shouldn’t be in favour of the racing industry where even the good trainers/jockeys/owners beat their horses down the home stretch. It’s an epidemic and there isn’t anything those horses can do to stop those beatings either.
There was even a study or two in the UK (I read about them in Horse and Hound but can’t find them now) which showed that whipping did not improve performance. Many off the record interviews with jockeys revealed that often they whipped horses (who they knew were already at max capacity) only because if they didn’t they felt betters/trainers/owners might suspect them of throwing the race and they wanted to protect their careers more than they wanted to protect their mounts.
I’m not against judicious use of crops/whips at all and in theory I’m not against racing horses either but in practice the entire racing industry is overrun with over and unfair use of whips (among many evils). If this is really how you feel about whips then I think your support of the “good†people in the racing industry is a bit hypocritical because they’re responsible for just as bad and worse on a much more regular basis.
In that vein, I LOVED watching Thoroughbred Richard’s Kid win the Pacific Cup Classic at Del Mar last fall. His jockey, Mike Smith, dropped his whip “deep in the stretch” and Richard’s Kid came on like gangbusters. It was great. There are videos on youtube also.
Chances are, the horse’s owners don’t care. They’ll attribute the rider’s behavior to “training” methods mere mortals would never comprehend, since he’s in a different league i.e. the same shit the pleasure horse people pull when their phony jerk-and-spur shit gets called out.
“You’re just jealous.”
“You don’t understand.”
“You could never understand.”
The reason trainers and riders continue with their little tantrums is because no one stops them. The judges don’t care, the other riders don’t care, and the owners don’t give a flying fuck so long as their horses are winning. And they do keep winning, because the judges don’t care. So, rather than correct the behavior, or call them out for being jackasses, you have everyone around them acting as enablers.
I’d say go ahead and spank this guy with a crop, just like he did his horse. But sick little fucks like this – they’d probably enjoy it.
When a lot of the WP horses started getting cranked, yanked & jerked around, when the rollkur thing took hold in dressage, when Big Lick horses started getting sored, Arabian halter horse abuse….etc etc etc ad nauseum, why didn’t the judges stand up and say “NO NO NO!!!!!”
Well, we all know why. And it’s positively sordid. And somehow the corruption settled in so deep, that what knowledgeable and impartial outsiders see as grotesque is considered “normal” in their circles. It’s brainwashing.
If judges stopped rewarding shitty movement and rider/handler abuse, and even bothered to enforce rules already in place, just exactly where would these so-called “professionals” get to show? Nowhere. Not only that, but all the wannabes that emulate them would have nothing and nowhere to show. Judges across the board could clean up the entire industry in a couple weekends, if they gave a shit. They’d only have to offer their own rulebook as evidence for enforcement.
I think the answer is obvious. Judges have no moral courage. (Call the waaaahmbulance.)
I’ll tell you what – it’s not judges specifically.
It’s people in general.
And all the intimidation tactics I was warned about – all the crap people told me went on in the show world? 100% true. Hell, I thought they were being drama queens. Uh, no. Apparently it really IS like being back in Junior High school. I’ve already been informed, through intermediaries of course – (pussies!) – that my horse WILL NOT be placed because I DARE to speak out about those who do wrong in the show ring.
We shall see. I’m eager to see just how much control the bullies actually have. The horse isn’t solid enough to test that theory out reliably yet, but he will be.
If I get video of my horse going fabulous and not being placed, well, I think that would be a highly entertaining blog topic – don’t you?
The people showing under these judges with no moral courage are the judge’s biggest defenders. They defend their horse’s shitty movement, their godawful horsemanship, and training abuse by virtue of consistently winning and placing under these chickenshit judges.
In their mind, they’re the players, and they get to define what’s appropriate or inappropriate in the show ring. The judges rewarding their bullshit enable them to speak from a perceived position of authority.
It’s called a symbiotic relationship, bordering on incestuous. But the judges are the ones who give final thumbs up or thumbs down. They’re the ones handing the power over to these players in the freak show. Without the judges validating them, they’d just be another asshole with an opinion.
I was told a judge at an AQHA show in Southern Oregon announced he would enforce rules, and horses with heads lower then the withers would not be placed. From what I was told he did just that, and the show committee replaced him by lunch due to the complaints. Not sure if its true, but if it is, wish I had been there. That judge’s steak dinner would have been on me.
I’d almost guarantee that was true. Oregon QHA seems to have a higher than average share of asshats. Oregon in general, sheesh, the Paint circuit is pretty godawful too. Yank, yank, crank, crank. Oregon is the place to go if you want to see miserable horses that look like they’d rather be dead, troping sideways with their ears pinned.
The things some trainers do to show jumpers to ensure they never refuse is disgusting. There’s one trainer, I can’t think of his name off the top of my head, but when one of his horses is in the ring, and they look like there is any possibility that they might refuse a jump, he whistles and the horse will jump it, whether they are 1 or 5 strides away. Why? In training, he sits up on a hill, and whenever the horse refuses he whistles and shoots their butt with a BB gun. There certainly isn’t as much ‘obvious’ abuse in the hunter/jumper circuit, compared to other disciplines, but behind the scenes theres plenty.
WTF was he trying to do the first time, jump over the wing of the jump? That horse was nowhere near in position, I could see that and I have NO, none, zero, zip, zilch experience with jumpers. What an asshat, he beat that poor horse over the jump the second time (did he even stop whipping the horse before he cleared jump?).
And I was always taught that crops are an extension of your arm, spurs are an extension of your heel. You are responsible for how they are used just the same as you are resposible for how you ride. Thanks, Grandpa!
I agree. Too much discipline will make a sour horse, especially when they know they’ve done nothing wrong, and potentially cause the horse to fear you. Not enough discipline and being a “push over” will result you in becoming a door mat. Not an if but a when. I know two extreme cases, one a quater horse that was broke the old way (three legs tied together, and left to bake in the sun for three days to “break his spirit”. Yup they certainly did, the result one very afraid horse) or a Walker I know that is absolutely terrified of humans. To me too much discipline (like someone throwing a hissy fit) is the same as abuse. While I ride a pony that likes to try and buck me off. Because he was ruined by green people. I don’t like to wear spurs, yet I own one western set and an english set (their like rowled cutting spurs, points rounded off), just for him. With the pony I usually have to give one or two good swats, not hard, but enough to make him understand he needs to move forward, stop being an ass, etc. Normally a light tap or two will make any horse or pony wake up. Not him. Or he doesn’t take me seriously. And when I do he looks at me with liquid brown puppy dog eyes (which people have fallen for) and goes “Why’d ya do that for?” When he knew exactly why I did it. Samething with the spurs. He knows that if he doesn’t listen to the crop, spurs soon follow. Usually I just have to roll them on his sides lightly and he gets the picture. He’s very smart and he knows what I expect out of him, it’s just that he was taught if he could weasle out of work, he would. Wrong, he just gets a smack and harder work. He’s gotten much better and more cooperative, usually I just have to change the tone of my voice, and he knows I’m unhappy with him, and if he doesn’t behave I will make him do more work. So there are two extremes; discipline too harshly and you may just end up with a scared shitless horse, be too leniant (I know someone like this, she’s super nice to everyone, but has no idea what disciplinning her horses mean) and your just a walking door mat.
Here’s another example, working with another different pony that dipshit owner did nothing with (had 90 days of training six or seven years ago T_T; didn’t want him any more so know he’s ours so something can be done with him.), doesn’t know how to clip, be bathed (has accepted leg washing. Just waiting for a nice day in the PNW to try and bathe him.), or ttrailer (ugh). He’s a good sport and doesn’t really spook at anything (unless it’s the trailer), which is surprising considering nothing has been done with him. So one day I get out my small trimmers and decide to trim his long hairy legs. The worst he did was paw and knock the trimmers out of my hands. Part of unsure what the vibrating thing on his legs, part unsure how to react. I never lost my patience, I just kept going at it. Now would I have put up with this same crap or worse from a horse that I know has years of experience of being trimmed and clipped? No, probably not. Unless they had a bad experience and want to let me know……… Also to prevent abuse you might want to come and visit your horse/pony more than ONCE A YEAR. Luckily ethical people (for the most part we did have a theif who was dealt with) only board there, so he just got love and attention no matter what. And a swat or two if he’s just being an ass undersaddle….. I’m not kidding with once a year *head desk*, pony could have been anything besides fat and happy………
Holy crap!! He’s not just popping that horse, he’s WAILING on him. Im not into jumping, but it doesn’t take a pro jumper to see that what he is doing is WAY out of line.
When I first got started riding NATRC competitive trail rides some years ago, there was a guy I rode with who would beat his horse about the head. I mean, not just a smack on the upper neck, he would whale on the poor thing’s head and ears. The horse was a nervous wreck (probably because it was terrified of its rider) and every time it shied or spooked or stopped, he would beat the crap out of it. He never did it in front of a judge, of course, but out on the trail when he thought nobody was looking…
Fortunately for the horse, the guy seems to have worked through his tantrums- I recently saw him in competition and the horse was much calmer and happier and the guy wasn’t beating on it any more. I was so glad to see that!
My current competitive trail horse is good as gold- except when she gets upset- then she rears. Since birth she’s been that way- panic or extreme frustration will make her rear, and no amount of non-violent training has stopped it. I mostly have learned to recognize the signs she’s getting upset and do something to intervene and calm her down, before she gets upset enough to go up. But when she does get too light on the front end and I can feel her start to rear up, I whack the S**T out of her on the upper neck behind her poll- just one hard slap- and it always stops the rear. As soon as she’s back on all 4 feet, I go on like nothing happened. It’s like it hits the RESET button. Very effective, and she definitely has an option to not get whacked again- don’t rear and I won’t whack! In fact she’s finally starting to respond to me leaning forward to whack her- she gets light in the front, I raise my hand and lean, and she goes back down, preventing the whack. So I guess I am training her out of it… and she’s not becoing fearful or headshy, because she knows why i’m smacking her and how to stop it from happening.
I have one of those super-sensitive types, too- my 4yo gelding I am training to saddle, is so sensitive just making an ugly face at him is sufficient! The other one, if you make an ugly face, she just tries to give you a hug!
oi. i totally thought he was only going to hit him once (the first time). and then maybe a reminder a stride out to make sure he actually leaves. that wasn’t even a dirty stop.
and when i watched it i was totally confused because i thought it was three smacks behind the leg was your limit?? that’s such a load that he didn’t get DQ-ed.
Not that I agree with the agressivness he rode this horse to the jump..I have heard this horse has been passed around from rider to rider over extream dislike of the water jump or getting anywhere near one. A good friend of mine is friends with the owner so all of this is hear say but at one point they thought that his fobia of the water jump might be the end of his grand prix career, but since hes been with Michael hes really come into himself and is getting better each time out. I can look at this video and smile because I have a grand prix drop out he won’t get with in 3 strides of a water jump before he slams on the breaks and throws huge fit. So his new career is a working hunter no scarry water jumps for him.
Then this animal needs more remedial training over water and simply isn’t ready to show- and he has no place schooling that horse in this venue. It is common knowledge that personality quirks and training issues magnify under pressure- for both horse and rider.
But I was torqued about the dressage at last year’s olympics too. So many disobediant horses with fancy movement and talent placing in the medals. At that level, the obedience should just be a given.
That pissed me off too. I guess ANKY doesn’t actually have to halt and Isabelle Werth didn’t exactly get the piaffe she asked for yet they got gold and silver medals. WTF?!
In the dog world, we call it “judging the wrong end of the lead.” I’ve seen some pretty poor dogs place because someone with fame similar to Anky and Isabel was holding the leash. It sucks.
Sigh. If we all refused to enter under the corrupt, “status quo” judges, we might make a difference. But that ain’t gonna happen, is it?
Well maybe it is a case of the rider thinking the horse was refusing because of that past history – but actually it appeared to me that the horse was keying in on the red swirly jump, and his rider failed to catch that in time to redirect him to the correct jump. Then I do think his rider over corrected with the whip – after the fact. If I had a steering fail like that I might have given him a pop on the right shoulder to get him over the correct jump on the second try. But I wouldn’t have gone to that excess.
But regardless of the horse’s history or what the rider thought – if it is 3 wacks and you are out – then he should have been DQed. If “them’s the rules” than that’s it.
OT-But along the lines of dumb perpetuating more dumb. Local morning news has a pet shop on as guests hocking reptiles and reccomending small snakes as good first pets. I kept snakes for a long time, mostly pythons and boas (they don’t shed hair, don’t smell, and only eat and poop about once a week). They also need heat rocks/lamps, UV bulbs to simulate sunlight, a moist environment, vitamin supplements, and here’s the big one- many need live food! I’m picturing misguided people with hungry, cold snakes that have eyecaps, vitamin deficiencies, respiratory infections and mite infestations. I acquired several in that condition from people who had no clue what work they were when they purchased them. BYBers know no bounds when it comes to species…
Yep. My boss runs reptile rescue out of our grooming shop. Even ones left abandoned with us by former loving homes- are stunted & under weight. We’ve taken all kinds in Turtle/tortoise, lizards, and snakes. We have 2 ball pythons who have been seriously over heated and are now very aggressive. I’m guessing brain damage. But noone thinks anything of animal abuse when it comes to a reptile.
That is so sad about the Ball Pythons, they can be so docile if handled and cared for properly. I actually started with a captive-bred Ball and she had the best temperment and was the easiest to handle of my snakes. Now this witch of a Peruvian Boa I had on the other hand…I also took a in 14ft female Albino Burmese with a severe mite infestation, respiratory infection so bad her nostrils had to cleaned 3x a day and very skinny. Couldn’t keep her long-term because of her size, especially since she topped out at 120lbs after gaining her weight back! She now peacefully resides in the reptile exhibit of a large zoo and they are quite happy to have her. Hat’s off to anyone that rehabs herps, it definitely isn’t for everyone!
I knew a girl in non-horse 4H who did herps in a BIG way.
She did an amazing rehab job on a rat snake (I think it was) that had been in my least favorite HS biology teacher’s room. She begged him to give her the snake – he was underweight, lethargic, and had an incredible abscess on his head.
She got him all fixed up, and he obviously liked her – in his snakey way – he was so sleek and shiny! But he always had a scar on his head that looked like a cigarette burn on every molt.
That’s awesome! I really like snakes, I think they’re cool I just like them better when they’re behind glass and I’m not the one that has to feed them . I have this really weird fear of them. I know that there really is no reason to be afraid of most of them. We went to a special snake museum in Drumheller once, where they have two boa’s they let people hold and take pictures with. I was terrified of those two even though I really had no reason to be and I knew it, but I was still freaked out.
I can usually read animals pretty well, but I think the reason I’m so freaked out when it comes to snakes it the fact that I can’t read them AT ALL. If one was pissed off at me and was going to strangle me I wouldn’t have a clue. Everything I just said was pertaining to constrictors though. I will never get near a venomous snake in a million years, even if it was “de-venomed” AND had no fangs.
Oh, they warn you just the same as any other animal. There are just no facial expressions to read. It’s all in how they are holding their body and the tension in their muscles. When I had my Peruvian Boa Constricter she taught me real quick how to tell when a snake was going to strike and constrict on you, and how to tell the difference between a strike out of fear/invasion of space and hunting.
This is completely off topic from this post… But why in English disciplines when people are posting the trot, some people look like they are almost trying to stand out of the stirrups? I ride western and was taught to sit the trot unless you get a really bouncy trotter and even then make it very subtle that you are posting. The girl in the video you posted today looks natural at it and awesome. Some videos though, I can’t figure out if the people are humping the horse or trying to jump out of the saddle.
And I fully agree the guy whipping the horse? He should have been kicked out. That poor horse really didn’t have options as the guy was whipping the horse even as it was following his command.
Well, I’m sure it’s true that some people over-post. I see it most often in AQHA hunter equitation classes… But mostly english riders ride many different types of horses with different lengths of stride and range of suspension than typically exists in western type horses. In other words, the greater the force you are being thrown out of the saddle with coupled with how much core strength you have/need to minimize the rise of your body and return lightly to the saddle (which is more important than how much you rise) is the result of how much you actually rise. If you ride similar types of horses all the time (western types or hunter equitation types) then getting on a large warmblood or even a smaller horse with greater suspension will challenge your ability to control the height of your rise from the saddle.
This super cute gray mare is definately a hunter equitation prospect with her very flat gaits- once she learns the lesson of the yoke she is wearing.
It depends on the horse and rider, stirrup length, working trot vs. extended trot vs. a jog…..
Good riding means letting the horse push you out of the saddle when posting, rather than the rider standing up in the stirrups every other beat.
A lot of Arabs, Morgans, etc. will give you a bouncy trot that feels like you’re going to the moon.
A lot of TB’s and QHs have a long, lower stride that will barely bounce your butt up out of the saddle.
A straight-shouldered, high-necked horse will give you a bouncier trot, whereas a more laid-back shoulder will give you a longer stride and less-bouncy trot.
Being able to effectively sit the trot on a Friesian or other carriage-type horse while maintaining quiet hands and a good leg is the mark of a REALLY good rider.
The horse in the video is really cute, and had some very awesome moments of self-carriage. I wouldn’t mind riding her, once she has some more finishing – which might simply require more miles on her, or maybe a little more directed training, I don’t know. But I like how she moves, and she’s just really pretty.
The rider is pretty good, though she could stand to have quieter hands and needs to get her leg back under her a skosh. She does nice automatic diagonal changes in her figure 8′s, which makes me giggle, because I do that too, even if the rest of the figure 8 is a total hot mess for me and looks more like a squished Peep bunny…..
I commend her for taking time with a rescue horse, and her unquiet hands might simply be happening because she’s trying to invite more flexion, I think. She’s not viciously seesawing like sooooo many riders & trainers I see around here.
Yeah, she is a young mare and I don’t criticize anybody’s equitation when they are riding a young OTTB on a cold day in a big field! I know how pretty I’d look doing that, which would be not at all.
Yep, I give her a pass. The horse isn’t really fighting her or anything, and for once, the martingale seems to be used CORRECTLY – unlike the horrific “training forks” I see so often around here.
Man, that’s a nice mare.
I swear, someday I’ll get me an OTTB, but I’m maxxed out at one horse (a freebie at that) at this point in my life.
This might sound stupid but I didn’t realize posting was such a difficult thing to do……
Part of the reason I don’t teach lessons is because I just don’t get how people don’t get it. Posting is one of those things I just do and have always done and didn’t need to be taught, I was just able to do it naturally.
I did try to teach one guy to post and it failed badly lol. I went to college with this guy and he didn’t have a clue how to post (or ride at all for that matter) so I tried to help. Yup three years later, Sovereign award winning apprentice jockey of the year Omar Moreno still can’t post a trot!
Posting, like sitting the trot, is an art form. The bigger the trot, the more concentration, seat and leg control it takes, from both perspectives. Equitation takes time and practice in all disciplines. I will have to agree with you tough on seeing some of the “saddle humpers”- makes you feel a little uncomfy watching them eh? I also can’t stand the “double bouncers” who have trainers… lets concentrate on their ponding the horses back before we worry about whether they polished their boots today shall we?
As for the spanker, it’s sad, but it happens all over as Fugly points out, without recourse. I hate that it takes a behind the scenes effort after-the-fact to do something about this and that people don’t stand up at or around the time it occurs. But action is better than inaction and hopefully some change comes about and they begin to enforce the rules.
I watched this video several times and he whipped that horse no less than 13 times. To me, it didn’t look like he was lined up with the jump amd the horse looked confused as to whether it was supposed to go over that particular jump. IMHO that did not look like an outright refusal but more like a confused horse. Now I will agree that this jerk is unprofessional, and the punishment exacted on this poor horse is excessive, I don’t think the guy was maliciously abusing the horse. He should be DQ’d for his poor horsemanship and if there is any penalty for his behavior, he definitely deserves it. To me what he did is not even as bad as someone jerking on a horse’s mouth, although highly innappropriate and inexcusable. Flame on.
I see a horse who seems to be steering for the big circle at the side of the water jump, then turns towards the red and white jump. Possibly it is trying to avoid the water. Possibly the rider was planning on tricking it with a last-minute turn towards the water. Possibly the rider wasn’t paying attention, and the horse headed for the jump it preferred.
Either way, he was stupid. He should have acted as soon as the horse was heading anywhere else than the middle of the jump. And, of course, he punished the horse – just contributing to its idea that water jumps are a bad idea.
And, yes, that goon should have been disqualified.
I can’t remember the last time I rode with a crop. I also cannot remember the last time I wished I had a crop while I was riding. My sensitive TBs respond well enough to a little growl. Smack them and I think we’d be off to the races! The last time I actually smacked my gelding was when he started turning his haunches like he was going to kick another horse and I simply reached around and flat handed him on the rear and that stopped him in his tracks and he was chagrinned for days. Sometimes it’s all in the tone of the voice….beating a horse for doing what he’s suppose to do (like the horse in the video, going forward to a fence, or fence standard in the first attempt) just does nothing but confuse them.
Um, he hit that horse 13 times. THIRTEEN. He should have been booted out of that ring instantly, disqualified for his round on that horse and not allowed any other rides for the duration of that competition. I hope he looks back on this moment and just cringes, but I have a feeling (based on those THIRTEEN belts from the crop) that he’s the type of guy who’d read this post and think everyone who sees a problem with this is just some soft-hearted woman who’s too afraid to discipline a horse. I mean, if he has no problem whacking a horse like that in the ring during a competition in front of the judge, his fellow competitors, the media and spectators, what the hell is he doing to his horses back home?
I’m a long-time reader of the blog who just let herself sign up to comment now that I’m finished school for the year, and what a first post to comment on. Geeeeeeeesh!
I don’t jump so my comments may not apply but I can sure see how the guy in this first video is doing little more than teaching his horse that he is a weak idiot with an unfair way. That horse will not respect, trust or like him in the end for that.
Watching herd behavior is a great way to learn what kind of discipline works with a horse. For example, if one gets a horse with no/rude ground manners, why not try some horse communication? This was shown to me by a gal who studies with Leslie Desmond and it was absolutely amazing. We put my newly purchased, over handled, nippy young stallion in an alley way that was about 40 feet long and 12 feet wide. He was on one side, wanting to rejoin his new buddies. My trainer stood in different areas of the alleyway and I “took” the gateway. We each looked at a particular rock that was maybe thirty feet in front of us and if the stallion started to cross between us and the rock, we acted aggressively without ever looking at him or making direct moves at him. We just “took the space’ much like a horse would take a pile of hay away from another horse. His reaction was amusing. He threw fits until he just stood and looked at us like; “wow, they must be boss mares.” We did this for about an hour ending where we “allowed” him to pass through the gate to his buddies. He did not have halter/lead rope on so all of his rearing and throwing fits were safe for us. I am leaving a lot of this out because we did a bit more than just taking one rock but my point is that when we watch how horses communicate with each other, we can learn a lot. When we next haltered this stallion, he was very respectful because he realized that we were higher in the pecking order and even the habit of swinging his head towards us to bite and then swinging back was gone.. When we just whack on a horse, we teach the horse how weak we are. They kick each other and barely blink. If a horse respects and trusts us with a clear understanding that we are like a big fair but stern boss mare, lots of bad behavior just goes away. I am not saying that this applies to rogue horses so I am not making recommendations for every horse. I am just trying to make the point that trying to understand a horse’s communication and herd interaction gets us a long ways. If I ever hit a horse, I hit him hard enough in the right place to get his attention and I know why I am hitting. (I hit a horse maybe once a year and I have over 20 horses.) It is not out of anger but it is to enforce that I am in charge. For another example, I do not allow my horses to crowd the gates. If my stallion crowds the gate, I will ask him to back and then I ask again in case he was distracted the first time and it was not clear. If he does not get back; I hit him really hard with the gate without looking at him. It is not personal. It is just my gate and my path and he needs to move now. Does that make sense? I only had to do that one time and now I just have to ask for my space and he moves. (Unless he is distracted by the girls and then I ask again a bit louder. However, it is wonderful to have a spirited strong stallion understand that my space is my space and it is not personal. (Just don’t look a horse in the face or eye to discipline. That is a different thing to them. Watch how they discipline each other. A boss mare likes the rest of the herd so she does not “stare” them down. She just takes care of business and keeps it impersonal.) It is amazing how many things can be solved on the ground before one gets into the saddle or cart. (I drive so I need a clear communication with my horse.)
Just one more quick thought. I have seen my trainer work with a difficult problem time and time again. She never gets angry or aggressive. She is clear about her intentions in every way including being conscious of her body language and she can be firm, especially where it concerns her space. After the lesson, the horse is so happy and relaxed because he finally got it and she was a good leader. There is lots of yawning and licking lips. It is a wonderful thing to watch. Horses enjoy a good leader and it is our responsibility to be a good one.
See, now the first thing I have to say is: if you are showing at that level, shouldn’t you have sensed that your horse wasn’t moving forward towards that jump AND that you weren’t straight to the fence – and done a correction BEFORE the horse refused – you know, like most of us can notice in the video a good five strides out? Getting straight(er) to the fence and THEN using a tap with the crop to encourage would have been FAR more useful then waiting until the horse ran out on the fence and then smacking him repeatedly when he wasn’t even FACING the fence he just ran out on. Just a thought!
Regardless of this horse’s history, that horse did not learn a damn thing in this video.
I had a friend who threw a similar fit during warm ups at a show, right in front of the judge. She wasn’t excused but she didn’t place in anything except jumper classes all day. Anything equitation-related, nada.
I hope this rider has been excused from the trials and goes back to the basics for a while. Time to learn good horsemanship – then you actually EARN the chance to head for the top of your sport.
I agree with littlemisspriss. If this guy is doing this in public, can you imagine what is going on when no one is watching?
Or maybe they are and afraid to say anything to Mister Big Shot. When I was a kid I remember a trainer at a (at the time) well known gaited horse barn beat the shit out of a client’s horse while I stood there and watched, horrified. He left welts an inch high all over that horse. The owner discovered what he did and took her horse out of that barn the same day. BTW that guy is still training Arabs in Iowa.
I hope Mike’s clients are keeping an eye on their horses and making surprise visits to the barn!
I’ve been riding horses for 35 years, mostly H/J. I have to say just one thing: Horses NEVER forget. He better PRAY HARD next time he comes into a line the wrong way headed over a five foot oxer. The horse can save your ass, or not.
You guess the outcome.
Fugs, thanks for bringing this into the light ‘o day in your Blog, but please fully credit Karen Robinson and her wonderful ‘Straight Up’ dressage blog at the Horse Canada site: http://www.horse-canada.com/?p=3305. Good stuff dear Fugleyites!
Karen originally posted about Mr Bad Boy Morrissey on March 21. I did a little simple sleuthing after seeing her post and found that this guy has had quite a bit of time to fully develop his very public whip hand – almost 2 years ago his name came up in a Times article covering a Nations Cup class at Hickstead, and it wasn’t because he put in a brilliant round: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4402038.ece
Shame on you USEF & FEI; this brat needs an extended time-out.
“Michael Morrissey, the only male rider in the team, was eliminated at the water on Crelido, his overenthusiastic use of the whip producing palpable disapproval from the crowd.”
Obviously didn’t use the intervening time to school that horse over water jumps properly. Good on the crowd. I hope they booed.
That run-out is 100% the (highly experienced, should-have-know-better) rider’s fault and his subsequent reaction is simply a temper tantrum. Poor Mickey… did all those expensive horses, Grand Prix shows, press and earnings just get to be too much? I hope your horse kicks you in the ass in the aisle for that one, because you deserve it.
It is just TOO soon for this “man†to have redeemed himself to the degree that you (or anyone else on the planet) should even consider giving him an award. Especially one that has the words “exemplary†or “courage†in the title or sub-title.
This man systematically fought AND killed dogs. Countless dogs. Innocent dogs. Dogs who were abused to make them fight.
This is pathetic and disgusting.
I guess it shouldn’t surprise me that the professional football industry is doing everything it can to (a) make people forget or (b) redeem their little golden boy.
You suck.
Sincerely,
Sharon McLeod
Ontario, Canada
I realize it’s not very ‘professionally written’, but when I think of Michael Vick, all I can think of are the words pathetic, disgust, and you suck. HE sucks the intelligence right out of my head.
I’ve just registered so I could comment on this. I’ve been enjoying reading the archives on Fugly horse for quite some time now (been laughing my ass off, thanks for that
All I can think when I watch this video is, what a nice, NICE horse, to put up with such lousy riding, bad treatment, and not only does he not dump the guy on the ground, he circles back around, jumps the little jump quietly and carefully, and then proceeds to jump the next obstacle like nothing had happened. Someone needs to buy this horse and have some fun on him/her. If I had that kind of money, I’d surely make an offer, because frankly, something that willing is definitely something I’d like to have in my barn.
In the UK affiliated jumping BSJA there is a set rule of three hits with your hand off the rein in the entire class (might be the whole day but I think per class) and you’re eliminated and usually called up to the judges box for a ticking off. I do some unaffiliated jumping judging and within the unaffiliated the rules are set by the judge/event organiser. I have to go off my guidelines from the yard owner on how much is too much and they are more leniant than the BSJA rules, but generally more than a couple of hits at once or majorily excessive will result in being called to the judges box over the tannoy – nice and public – and a major ticking off from me and my co-judge. I’m constantly amazed by how many people follow a refusal with show the horse the fence and thump it – gee thats going to make the horse want to go near that jump! It shows in the results as well – the horses which have the shit beat out of them for refusing constantly refuse, while the horses who are shown understanding generally will try much harder for the rider.
I also have to wonder what chance some kids have – there was one girl who had multiple refusals in a round (we will elimanate after 2 refusals but allow the round to be finished) and was using way to much stick, we called her up to the judges box with her mom (I think she’ll have been around 15 or so) and basically said that she was using too much stick and it wasn’t acceptable – her mom then proceded to have a go at us telling them off for this because, and I quote, they had ‘brought the horse to sort it out’ – I shudder to think what they do at home to that poor bugger.
I’m sorry that this is off the topic of that tantrum throwing ass, but I need some advice. I upgraded a yearling miniature horse in December. He came to me full of lice and looking like crap and he is still very unthrifty. He has a face full of warts (all over his muzzle and the thin area of skin around his eyes) that he has had since I got him in December, little scabs all over his back under his fur, and he is losing his hair in patches and rubbing his tail. He is thin and has a worm belly. He was gelded and dusted for lice in December. I got him his spring shots in March and I gave him a Panacur power pack in March. He is eating Grow ‘n Win at the recommended rate and also Equi-shine once a day that was recommended by the vet. He just doesn’t seem to look any better and actually may even look a little worse. Can anyone recommend a wormer that won’t kill off too many worms at once? I think he may still be full of them and I don’t want to colic him with a mass die off of worms. Should I just re-do the Panacur power pack or is it too soon? Is there anything else anyone can suggest for a generally unthrifty boy? I’m worried I could lose him if something doesn’t change drastically.
Either or both, unfortunately. It’s hard to say – I’m not looking at him AND I’m not a vet. I just want you to be aware of it. Friends of mine just lost a two year old – same thing, simply wouldn’t thrive no matter what and finally colicked. Too much parasite damage. This is why deworming is so important but try to hammer that through the head of your typical BYB…*sigh*
Yes, the damage can be permanent. My mother went to an auction where they were selling off a (well known) breeder’s herd b/c they were in the hole. I was 10 at the time. She went to see if she could buy me one of their show horses cheap. SO while she is there she sees a runty two year old (looked like a yearling) & it looked like he was going to the kill buyer.
Q: Guess which horse I ended up with???
A: NOT the one that carried someone to a world championship a few years later.
Anyway, the runt had been in the pasture since he was weaned, barely fed, never wormed & picked on in the herd. LOADED with every parasite known. He was a mess. Even after he was back on track with everything else, he would still colic frequently. Mom is a (non-horse) vet so we had a lot of careful feeding, management, etc. Over the years the time between episodes got longer, but he did have a few really close calls, one at the age of 20. Well, now that I am thinking about it I realize he has been good for a long time, ten years or so…he is out in the pasture, fat and happy at THIRTY TWO YEARS old. Little bugger.
So yes, the damage is permanent, and the risk is high, but that doesn’t mean the horse is a goner.
and…I am *still* mad at my mother for buying the runt. I could have been a contender…
Can someone post some links about parasite damage so I can investigate this further? My horse http://www.hoofprints.com/billy.html was so wormy when I got him – it took multiple purgings to get him clean. Soon as I took a breath – his fecal was clear – two months later he looked bad and tested positive for strongyles again (not a heavy load, though) He’s had diarrhea intermittently and is just not looking healthy. I finally put him on daily Strongid 2c in hopes that would help. He eats Senior-Glo, High Point Minerals with pro- and pre-biotics, timothy cubes & beet pulp soaked in water, pasture and free-choice grass hay (all in all – a virtual equine smorgasbord). Last summer (6 months after I got him) he looked great. My vet even scolded me for letting him get too fat. But this spring, in spite of my best efforts, he’s come through the winter looking really scruffy and poor. Any other ideas / suggestions?
I feel like I should have a phD in horse nutrition by now – my other horse is borderline IR (Insulin Resistant) and I have to micro-manage every morsel that goes into her mouth or she puffs up like a toad. I’ve tried all manner of contraptions to regulate her intake speed so she’s not standing around hungry all the time. Now I’ve got one that’s the exact opposite – I am stuffing him full and he’s NOT gaining weight!
I don’t know where you live, but have you tested his manure for sand? If he’s ingested a lot, he can’t pass it, and it can block absorption of nutrients, not mention some nasty colic. Regular treatment with Sand Clear can really help if that turns out to be an issue.
He needs more protein. Get him Equine Junior, it’s the best thing we’ve found. Some alfalfa would be good, too.
We’ve also noticed that if we buy a weanling that was weaned at 3-4 months, they develop a pot belly and it takes MONTHS to get rid of it. Our foals are weaned no early than 5 months old. Since we’ve been doing that our babies aren’t getting a pot belly at all. Your poor guy may be one of these. Congrats on rescuing him!
I think the horse was running through his leg early on to avoid the water and he should have corrected him earlier. Not defending the rider’s actions at all though. Beating a horse through any obstacle is a useless thing to do because it’s so detrimental to the horse causing either fear of the rider or resentment or both. This guy should try that with a mule and see if there aren’t repercussions for him at a later date. I don’t get it. I have a lazy TB who hates arena work and if I treated him like this he would retaliate. Judicious discipline gets him listening to my leg and forward. If I weren’t such a pansy, I’d get him out on the dirt roads for training where he is interested in actually going somewhere.
I am waiting for all of the responses from readers who insist that ALL bad horse behavior is from pain and how DARE you condone smacking Poopseykins for biting…….. *rolleyes*
I once audited a Jimmy Wofford clinic (years ago) and one of the only things I remember vividly was the girl was riding her huge WB who liked to refuse fences. Mr. Wofford told her to get more impulsion to the fence (in fact, GALLOP at it). Right before she got to the fence she used the crop, apparently to get him over. Mr. Wofford said, “Um… might I ask WHY you punished the horse for doing what he was SUPPOSED to do? Why on earth would you use the crop when he was going towards the fence like you asked?”
The clinic was HUGE with at least a hundred auditors, and the girl looked really embarrased. I hope that she remembers that for the rest of her life. Heck, I still remember it and it’s been a few years now. It impressed me.
I watched David O’Connor teach a group over 10 yrs ago and I will never forget seeing him take a whip away from a girl. This group had just entered the arena and David was standing at the rail talking to the audience about the level this group was doing and the goal for their lesson that day and so on and so forth. The riders were all sitting on their horses behind him listening. One girl’s horse kept doing something with his head, like shaking it or bobbing it or something, and every time the horse would do it she would pop him with the whip on the hindquarters. So David, still talking about the lesson, smoothly wandered toward her and when he got to her he paused from his lecture, asked “can I see your whip for a second?” so she gave it to him, and then he said “thanks” and continued with what he had been saying and casually wandered back to the rail. She did not get her whip back. We all thought it was a funny and classy way to make his point of what’s unacceptable treatment of your horse and what’s inappropriate use of a whip. Without literally saying it, he sent the message “if you’re going to choose to abuse the whip, then you don’t get to have it at all.”
Poor horse probably needed his teeth done or something. Head tossing isn’t something I think of as misbehavior – I think of it as the horse trying to say “my mouth hurts” or “your hands suck.”
What a complete asshat. Unless the horse had jumped sideways, there was no way he would have jumped that fence the way the rider first put him at it. And then the idiot started whaling on that poor horse as they started circling and continued to do so right over the jump? Nice work, you abusive prick! I was always taught that you use your whip for *discipline*, not punishment. Discipline is a controlled, constructive correction applied immediately when or after specific offense occurs. Punishment is you inappropriately losing your cool and control, and has no place in riding. This guy is a fine example of the latter.
If I pulled that crap on my TB, he would have tossed my ass over the horizon after whack #2. This guy should count himself undeservingly lucky that the horse didn’t ditch him or pitch a full on fit.
I use a dressage whip because my instructors tell me to. My leg aids are not strong enough (or “noticeable” enough) to get the message to the horse that he needs to move THIS way or do THAT thing. I guess it’s GOOD that my aids are not strong (I’m not nagging him), but the whip or crop is meant to be an extension of the leg aid, nothing more.
Sometimes if there is a disobedience it can be used as a subject-changer. Horses respect the sharp (meaning direct and to the point) reminder that there is a task they are being asked to do — and to do it NOW — and like anything else, reward at the end for doing the right thing. ALWAYS a winner.
The “applause dressage” gal choreographs freestyles and I’ve met her. She is very good at what she does, and she’s very direct in dealing with people and horses. I would not want to be on ANY list she puts on her Web site or in any article she writes about “those who do the wrong thing.” In fact, I’d pretty much just stay out of her way ;o)
He basically rode the horse into the standard…I had to watch the video twice to figure out what jump he was heading for in the first place. Just poor sportsmanship and totally unfair to the horse.
I don’t know if anyone else mentioned it, but he looked to be on the wrong lead before and during the refusal, as well as through his temper tantrum. Moron!
My husband’s horse goes light in the front when she doesn’t want to go some where, and also tries to back up a mile.. I carry either a light sprig/stick OR a crop with a big floppy bat on it.
I will tap her on the shoulder and urge her forward with my legs.
And with my mare, she would whip up her head and did hit me in the nose (breaking it) with her poll…
I tried with her pretty much everything, I tried tie downs, tapping her by her ears with my crop..
She also bobs her head UP and DOWN.. then shakes it side to side, mostly when she is bored..
SO when she starts, I do trail exercises and ask for her to go on the bit, and do all kinds of things to keep her from doing it.. SOmetimes I ignore it.
I did ride her with the ASB or Arab type running martingale that has rings but sits on the side of the neck.. she did much better with that…
And I found out saddle fit is a huge thing with her…
But I was always taught that a crop is to be used an an extension of your leg, an AID.. not what this ass hat did!!
He should be banned!!
If you watch only the horse’s legs, the horse went exactly where the rider aimed him. He didn’t duck away of his own accord. The camera angle does make it a little hard to see. I didn’t see any refusal,other than what the rider caused. Sometimes if your horses is bad they allow you to “do what you have to do” to get your horse over one schooling jump and then you are excused. I always thought that the crop was used to re-enforce your leg aids, or to give 1 or 2 good swats to their butt when needed- not to “beat your horse” over a fence. I am really surprised they gave him a score. Not a very good example to set to others, esp. kids.
Hi Fugly, I’m a longtime reader of yours, enjoy your rants! On this topic of abusive training techniques, I had a woman named Julie Goodnight ‘friend’ me on FB. Then I saw an article where she advocated the use of shock collars on horses …. the context was a horse beating up on other horses in the herd …. and I unfriended her. I was surprised at many who feel that using shock collars, at least in that context, is ok. Are you ok with that too? Because frankly, there are many other solutions to that sort of behavior, and I don’t think there’s ever a reason to use a shock collar on a horse (am not real fond of them with dogs, unless you’re really trained yourself in how to use them…).
Dear Micheal: I’m not a USET rider, and I’m certainly not doing the Prixs… but if you were one of my Up Downer lesson students, I’d rip you off my school pony and never let you step foot on the farm again. First off, aiming the horse at the standard is a sure way to get a refusal. Second, having a temper tantrum for all and sundry to see (and film) might work for Tiger Woods, but you just look like an ass. Certainly not something I like to see USET promoting.
Talk about a horse that can take a joke. Mine would have landed your rear end in the next county.
I’m thinking Michael needs to go learn how to ride with EventerTB! I like her philosophy.
I’m also wishing that horse had dumped Michael’s sorry A$$ in the water.
Tiger Woods isn’t getting a pass for temper tantrums now either … he got a public scolding at the masters. Now maybe if he hadn’t gotten in so much hot water earlier, they wouldn’t have dared, but as it is, his club throwing and swearing is NOT going over well with the golf world.
So maybe the horse industry needs to get with it and publicly state how they feel about temper tantrums. A golf club isn’t sentient like a horse is …
The fact that golf clubs are inanimate objects was really the only reason that I differentiated between his temper tantrum and Mr. Morrisey’s. As one of my college trainers used to say if a rider isn’t willing to put the horses first, they need to “take up tennis”. I guess golf clubs work just as well, lol
P.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence Fugs. I appreciate it. Sadly, I haven’t taught in several months as my F/T job got in the way and my kids were ready to move on to my trainer (I’ll only take them to the short stirrup level… w/t/c and 18″ jumps). Hopefully I’ll get back to it someday soon.
I ride western and have rode with a crop on one horse. I did not smack him with it, or even give him a little pop. I sat the crop on his butt and drew a circle. His two issues were moving forward consistently and jumping 5 foot to the side when spooked. Drawing the circle made him move forward without any pain inflicted. The spooking was just not cureable for him. but I could feel when he was ready to spook and knew what made him spook. Talking to him helped but he was just not a trail horse.
I ride my share of green horses but have never had to use any harsh methods with them. My OTTB was ridden in a hackamore (not of the mechanical sort) when he first started going out on trails. He would get nervous and prance and I would just ride through it calmly, keeping contact on the reins but not pulling, until he realized he was the only one getting nervous. His new owner does competitive trail riding with him now.
We have one mare that we took in that had saddle seat training, which I knew nothing about. When she was fit enough to ride my father-in-law thought the training was a lie because she knew nothing, in western speaking. I had to do a little research to realize that she had different cues to do her thing. I would still call her green in the western world, but she’s a very light horse that is tons of fun to ride. Her biggest issue was that she was gated and it took awhile for her to balance herself with the western saddle when she was used to a light little english saddle. : D
My horse is extremely spooky – even after thousands of miles of riding im – what works best is for me to keep him on the bit slightly and to tip his nose away and give him some outside leg from anything he starts to “look” at. He’s almost cured on the trail – his spooks are generally just eyeballing stuff now, no more bolting! I don’t yell (he’s very sensitive) or hit, just a look on the ground and a raised voice gets a scared face from him. I also feed him magnesium and extra B vitamins – sometimes severe spooking can be a result of not enough of something in his system. Check out Dr. Eleanor Kellon DVM on a google search and put in magnesium or spooky horse along with her name. She’s done some research and is who I got the information from. Spooking can be especially bad when horses get fresh spring grass. The new grass depletes their Mg levels and they need extra supplementation. You might notice your horse is more sendistive to touching him or to sounds.
One other thing….I read here he has an aversion to water jumps and has been “passed around.” C’mon! If he is that afraid of them then just STOP showing him in the GP! Hard to imagine they can’t find a suitable mount…but I know the logic with these people, “It’s not the horse, WE will be able to FIX him up.”
Hate to tell you, yes, sometimes it’s the horse, and it’s not fixable….not by you, not by anyone. Sad story fugly….
The worst thing I ever saw was the riding director of a prestigious school having a tantrum on a horse. Not sure if I should name him, so I’ll refer to him as Douchebag Trainer.
Douchebag Trainer was teaching a jumping lesson, and this poor old schoolie looked quite lame to me. Old schoolie was refusing fences, and not in a hissyfit way – more like a “I just can’t do this and I will peter out to a stop by the time we get to the fence” way.
So DT says he will get on the horse himself. He hops on and proceeds to beat the crap out of the horse’s flanks with the crop before he even pointed him at a fence. The horse gets worked up into a frenzy. He yanks the horse’s head around, and points him at a VERY nearby fence. They are only 2-3 canter strides away from the fence but horse does as asked, he launches into a canter, does the 2 or 3 strides and catapults over the fence.
As soon as they landed, DT yanks on the horse’s face SO HARD that the horse SAT DOWN. I couldn’t believe it. Why the hell did he punish the horse like that FOR DOING WHAT WAS ASKED? In response to the sit-down, he hit the horse on the top of the head. Then ensued a few more minutes of beating, yanking, and jumping.
He gets off and hands the horse back to the teenaged girl. Horse is sweating and shaking with fear. He did jump for her, too.
It wasn’t the first or last time I saw him abuse a horse, but it was the worst.
Well, yes, you really want to protect the identity of someone like that. After all, if you name him, he might have to suffer consequences. You don’t want that.
Does anyone know, doesn’t it state specifically somewhere in the USEF or FEI rules (or both) that more than three consecutive strikes with a whip or crop is cause for elimination?
I thought I just read it in the USEF rules not long ago…. I will try to find it….
Fugs recently posted about how to sell a horse- or how NOT to sell a horse.
I am going to make similar suggestions how to sell your horse trailer.
I recently got a “new” trailer that was a prime example- a good trailer, structurally, but so poorly presented that it sat for 9 months despite reasonable pricing, with no takers, until I came along. It was so dirty inside the LQ I just opted to gut it and rebuild from scratch, rather than try to salvage anything- I couldn’t get past the filth, even after it was cleaned up (by me!). I got the trailer for about 1/2 it’s value (including the cost of re-doing the entire LQ myself) thanks mostly to the owners not bothering to clean the LQ up before trying to sell it.
1. CLEAN THE TRAILER!!! Wash the outside, scrub the horse area out thoroughly, and clean any tack area, dressing room, or LQ thoroughly. A trailer covered in mildew, with poop all over the walls and floor, and dead mice and bugs in the cupboards of the LQ, doesn’t sell well! If it smells like mouse pee, evict the mice and clean it up! Use some air freshener or something to kill the musty smell. Mildew on the LQ ceiling doesn’t do you any favors, either. Spend a couple hours doing a thorough cleaning and it will be much easier to sell. Keeping the a/c running for a day or two will get rid of the musty smell if it’s jut been sitting unused for a while. Try washing any linens/curtains, or using some febreeze. A bad or musty smell is a definite sale killer!
2. TAKE DECENT PICTUES!!! A single odd-angle snap of the outside of the trailer doesn’t do much to help me decide if it’s what I need. Take pics of the interior of the horse area, and of any LQ or dressing room. Take pics of any nice features like rear tack or swing-out saddle racks. Be able to send the pics via email on relatively short notice- don’t wait till you have a potential buyer to go clean it up and take your pics.
3. BE UPFRONT ABOUT DAMAGE! Take pics of any damage and be upfront about it to potential buyers- nothing is more of a sale killer than driving a long way to look at a trailer and discovering damage the seller didn’t disclose up front. Even if I deicde the damage is acceptable, it will lower my offer and my opinion of your honesty!
4. PLUG IT IN! If someone is coming to look at your trailer, have it plugged in with the heat or a/c running. Be prepared to demonstrate that any appliances, lights, etc, are in working order. I’m not interested in taking your word for it that the a/c works! Be prepared to hook up the trailer to a vehicle and demonstrate that the lights, electric brakes, etc, are in working order.
5. MAKE SIMPLE REPAIRS! How hard is it to use a can of touchup paint, or put some black duct tape on a torn area of padding? What about replacing that blown or broken tail light? If there are minor problems or blemishes that can be fixed easily, do it before the buyer comes. The trailer will present better and the potential buyer won’t feel like the trailer would create work!
6. PRICE IT REALISTICALLY! The horse trailer market is tough for sellers right now- it seems like everyone who is having a tough time, is selling (or trying to sell) their luxury items, including horses and trailers. It’s a buyer’s market, so you need to have realistic expectations of what your trailer is worth. Cleaning your trailer up and presenting it well will go a long way towards getting the price you want, but in this market, nobody with any sense is going to pay you as much as you paid for the trailer at the dealership 5 years ago!
Buyers like me, who are perfectly willing to buy a filthy trailer, gut and sanitize it, and completely re-wire, re-plumb, and re-build the LQ, are few and far between. If a buyer feels like that’s what they would have to do to be happy with your trailer, they will usually pass. Or, like me, only be willing to pay a fraction of the trailer’s potential value. By spending a few minutes to a few hours (depending on the condition of your trailer) cleaning it up and taking some decent pictures, you will sell it more quickly and for more money.
Goatlady: I have had minis for years, and the one thing I know for sure, if you have a skinny mini, you have a serious issue going on with him. Mine are air ferns and it is almost impossible to get any weight off them without complete starvation or tons of work.
I would get the Vet out again for a complete check on this little guy. He should be gaining weight no problem, and since December? I took care of a rescue mini drawf, 20 inches tall, came with lice and a BCS of 1. I wormed him (per the Vet) every two weeks (three times) and fed him grass hay, all he wanted, and a little oats. He did great and found a wonderful home.
If this guy hasn’t been improving long before now, he needs another Vet check.
I am also not clear why you would geld a horse that was not in good health to begin with. I would have waited until he was at least improving before putting him through being gelded.
While I do think that it was an excessive use of the whip and that perhaps the rider was anticipating a refusal before it actually happaned, I did not however see the horse react hardly at all to the whipping. Meaning that this is not the first time that this has happened, or that the horse is desensitized to it or whatever. I am not condoning what happened in the ring, but just saying that is is rare to see today, especially at the higher levels. It is my belief that if your going to take issue with excessive whipping, the racing industry needs to be looked at as well. There we have young hot horses who are always on the brink of breaking down so it seems, being asked for more than they can give by constant whipping in many cases. These horses are being broke at 18 months and are still developing as they are reaching top speeds on fast tracks. There has been lots of controversy and rules about whipping horses on the track to the kinds of whips they can use, how long, what their made up of etc… If I was going to start a stint on whipping, that is probably where I would start
I love that clip from Olympia – that horse knew he aced the combination.
Re. whips – in UK racing a jockey can ONLY hit a horse ten times in a race, they are not permitted to raise their arms above shoulder height to do so, and if they hit with “undue force and frequency” they will also fall foul of the stewards. These restrictions are enforced with fines and suspensions.
Would it be too much to hold “gentleman” showjumpers and eventers etc to the same rules?
I think that is really awesome of her to keep using this horse like she always has. I do have split thoughts on the extreme race though. One part of me thinks it is awesome and the other part worries about the horse getting injured. There is a totally blind reining horse out there competing too with the difference being reining has a much more controlled environment. Either way, I wish her luck and think she is setting a very good example that just because a horse has a disability does not mean it should be euthanized.
This is an FEI event. Therefore, you can kill a horse by running it into the ground without punishment. Like in eventing, we have use the crop 3 times at one question behind the shoulder only. A total of 5 times on course. Then you get booted. But it doesn’t work like that at the FEI level. Sure, they have rules but they do NOT enforce anything.
The amount of money spent in FEI is a lot more than eventing, I believe, which seems consistent with no rules when big bucks are involved … people critcize eventing for the danger, but as a sport it seems very fairly run to me.
Obviously you missed the whole Laine Ashker/”Frodo Baggins” fiasco.
Spoiled rich girl gets Daddy to buy her the horse from the Lord of the Rings movies — yes, the very horse, a beautiful NZ TB … then kills him dead by flipping him over a fence. At Rolex. Snapped his neck, on camera, in front of everyone. She got busted up, but he died.
And it wasn’t the first horse she’d flipped, either. Girl did not have the chops to ride at that level — horse flipped because he was going too slow and was not lined up, entirely rider error, and he was trying to save her instead of just stopping and letting HER jump the jump without him — but she had the money, so everyone let her go.
I would absolutley love to put this guy on some of the school horses I have ridden. One of them, a big chestnut gelding, would send you flying the second you touched him with a crop. I can only imagine what would happen if you hit him hard 13 times…
Can’t watch the video at work, but sounds like a case of “win at ALL costs”, including the horse’s mental well being! I seriously HATE that attitude and wish he’s been dumped by the horse AND kicked off the course.
The other night I was soaking my gelding’s foot and lost my temper, hitting him with the soaking pan and then he “trained” me by being scared of the soaking event even more! Of course, I realized my mistake as soon as I lost my temper and hit him. He just further reinforced my mistake!
Fugs – when was the video in question taken? What was the date of the show? I found another article from July 2008 referencing his, “overenthusiastic use of the whip producing palpable disapproval from the crowd.” Apparently this guy is a serial whip-abuser. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4402038.ece
I knew it was wrong, but when you’re a kid, your parents take the side of the trainer because they know no better, and you’re told ‘It’s this or give up riding’…
Beating a horse for refusal was common. I worked out on my own that if a horse refuses…first of all, ninety percent of the time, it’s rider error. Second of all, they’re much more likely to jump it on the second attempt if you just circle around and point them at it again like nothing happened. Especially if you KEEP doing it and don’t let them stop until they go over .
Unfortunately, thanks to that bad trainer, I ended up giving up jumping for good.
These days, I only ride with a crop if I’m riding a horse that I know is either lazy/sour or VERY green. I use it as an extension of the leg if a horse will NOT go forward. I’ll use a dressage whip if I have a green horse with a case of wandering hindquarters, because it *clarifies* what I’m asking for when I use my leg to say ‘Straighten up’.
The other legitimate use of a crop is as a barrier to the horse’s movement, either to enforce personal space or to deal with something like ducking off the rail, but in that case, I’m not TOUCHING the horse with the crop. If I have a horse that likes to duck off the rail, I’ll carry a crop in the inside hand and angle the tip out a little to make sure the horse can see it. It’s amazing…90% of horses don’t duck off the rail if you do that. But then, my goal is always to not need a crop. I believe a whip should be *completely unnecessary* on a well trained horse that has no current issues and is working in the correct discipline for its build and temperament.
And I never hit a horse more than once per incident. The most time I hit a horse recently was the last time I rode Sierra (the ‘princess’ I’ve mentioned earlier) and she decided she was Not Going To Canter, and it took me ten minutes and multiple attempts to get a few strides out of her…and I think I probably popped her, as an extension of the leg, maybe half a dozen times, but that’s *really* unusual, and believe me, I think most people would have done the same thing…she was ignoring my leg aids completely.
Oooh hooo! If we were ever to use a stick in that manner we would be “grounded” for a month by our riding teacher, not to mention publicly humiliated in front of the other students.
I rarely ride with a whip, BUT one of the horses I ride will absolutely not budge unless you have one in your hand. This goes for longing and riding. You don’t have to use it, just have it. It’s very strange. I was at a clinic last fall where he behaved like a superstar. We were cooling out, so I dropped the whip, and didn’t he stop in the middle of the arena and refuse to move. The clinician brought me back my stick, and he moved off nicely without it so much as touching a hair. I must carry a whip when hacking him to make sure he doesn’t lie down on me, now that I know the signs, and even then, it’s a “Yo, I’m on to you dude – don’t try it!” tap on the bum.
I remember years ago I was going on a Prize Ride and tagged along with a group of riders that stabled their horses not far from where I lived. Now these horses were in stalls all the time with very little turn out other than when their owners came to ride. Of course their horses were full of energy and pranced jogged just about the entire 3 hour ride. I rode with them back to the facility and a few of them proceeded to continue to work their horses in the arena. Now these horses had been on a pretty long and somewhat challenging 3 hour ride already and to be forced to return back to the barn to continue cantering in the arena. I considered that abusive treatment by the owners. I cant remember now if I said anything to them or not I just remember being shocked by the fact that the riders were upset that their stall bound horses were full of piss and vinegar and wanted to go.
On one other occasion just last summer my husband and I witnessed abusive, idiotic behavior so bizzare we were speechless. Two women were having trouble getting a horse loaded into a 2 horse straight load trailer. Instead of just tying up the other horse the woman held the leadrope and a pitchfork on one side of the terrified horse and on the other side the owner smacked the back of its legs with a longe whip. This went on for several minutes and a good samaritan even tried to help. That horse was so worked up by the time it finally jumped into the trailer it was amazing it didnt flip itself over backwards when they closed the door. My husband and I placed bets what would happen first 1) somebody got kicked and/or hospitalized 2) the friends horse would get loose and be running wildly onto the busy road. I wouldnt have minded if one of those ladies would have gotten kicked, but it probably would have resulted in more unneccessary abuse for the horse.
A horse refusing to load can really bring out the worst in people. I saw pretty much the same thing once, only it was my mother’s little mare taking the business end of a whip. Some lady took it upon herself to “show her how it’s done” when she hesitated going in the trailer at horse camp (normally she is a good loader, she was in heat that day and just downright being a brat). I heard my mom yelling and saw some lady beating the crap out of the mare with a huge whip. Won’t get into the big long story but I will tell you it ended with a left hook and me narrowly dodging an assault charge. She learned what a good whack in the face can feel like that day.
I live/work in Wellington and was there that night. It definitely didn’t go unnoticed by the crowd. The horse show is trying to attract a lot of non-horse people to come out (lowering ticket prices, making family-fun events etc.) and there was a lot of hissing that came over the crowd. It definitely wasn’t accepted by the general public, even if the judge didn’t excuse him from the ring.
Couple of things you might want to try that worked for me. (One was a 27 yr starvation case, he lived to 38 and looked toi be about 18).
Worm for tapeworms. They don’t always show up in fecal samples and normal wormers won’t kill them. It may also take a few trys to clear them out as they can be reinfected from pastures.
Do get some blood drawn and a panel run by your vet. There may be a subclinical bacterial infection that he just hasn’t been healthy enough to fight off. The white cell count will show if there are problems with infection.
I have had good luck putting weight on with a mixture of probiotics, beet pulp, rice bran, senior feed (easier to digest), timothy hay pellets, and black oil sunflower seeds. This is fed along with forage mix and alfalfa. I add in a little sweet feed if they can handle it and some nonfat dry milk powder. (Dry milk has the most available source of Lysine you can find along with sulphur compounds for hair, skin, and hooves. Mine also love the taste and will eat everything it is on, up to and including bute powder).
Here’s a timeline of events in the Morrissey case that I think will help explain things more clearly, from someone who has been following this closely:
–Feb 27, incident in trial 2, no punishment, placed 35th in all results – the show’s, USEF’s, and FEI’s (these other results all come from the same original source, the show itself)
Officials’ authority over the results ends with the event itself, they can’t go back and change them after that point
–Mar 3 competed in trial 3, placed 22nd
then dropped out of trial 4 and 5 (as did others who weren’t in contention)
originally listed in both USEF and show committees results for this event, all is “normal” at this point, he’s placed in both events according to all sources, as if nothing ever happened on Feb 27
–Mar 17 Karen’s blog (the Canadian one I linked to), FEI “investigates”
–Mar 29/30 FEI comes back to her saying that (contrary to all evidence) he WAS DQed from trial 2 AND barred from further trials, but gives no specifics. We look and see he has NOW been listed as “DNP” in USEF’s results for trial 2. But…WHO DQed him? The officials couldn’t DQ him at that point, they have no authority. There has been no judicial hearing. Basically this is a “fake” DQ, not in accordance with the FEI’s own rules, to cover their ass and keep this quiet.
–Various people go check the results to verify he WAS barred from further trials as claimed by the USEF/FEI, and see that oops, he is magically deleted from the show committee’s trial 3 results, but remains in USEF’s official results, Chronicle coverage etc. So we know something’s really, really up.
–Karen writes to USEF saying he did in fact compete in trial 3, so WTH is going on
–USEF sends someone back to her saying it was just a “mistake,” they meant they took action against him AFTER trial 3, not before it. This would be OK, IF it really happened, because they have committees that have to make such decisions in a proper way, etc., that’s all OK…again, IF it actually happened, but we weren’t born yesterday because why would the show committee delete him from their trial 3 results if it really was a “mistake”? If it really happened, the USEF has a formal record of it, and there’s no need for any antics!
–Now Karen is waiting for USEF’s BS explanation of why the show committee just happened to make the same “mistake” as they did, and deleted him from their trial 3 results.
~~~~~~~~~~
Very, very interesting. Look, it’s not that hard to deal with this appropriately — you’ve got video, there’s no rumor mill involved here. This is obviously worthy of a suspension. Suspend him, send a message, and continue to look like the oh-so-much-classier show association.
Bastards! The FEI clearly doesn’t give a toad’s fart about horses or riding sports in general. But they were kind enough to put up this bullshit site about how they are against doping: http://www.feicleansport.org/
Just to make it look like they are cleaning up their act.
Ok, so doping is bad, but beating horses, blue tongue/LDR dressage, giving high scores to dressage riders who preform the test poorly. That is just fine and dandy, until people start bitching about it, then they have to pretend to do something about it.
Perhaps a new organization needs to be formed. One that actually cares about the welfare of the horses and the integrity of riding sports.
Typical. And thanks for trying to make sense of it!
Anyway, this sounds like a jurisdiction pissing contest. You see, if the infraction occurred at a regular USEF competition, not a selection trial, he probably would have been shitcanned immediately or almost. They don’t have a great track record either. Since the FEI is involved, it has to go up through the food chain and reviewed and bantered. Not a quick process. Also, they do not like punishing people.
As for eventing, if Amy Tryon pulled that shit of continually smacking her horse on course at a regular USEA sanctioned event, she would have been DR (Dangerous Riding) and probably be sanctioned. Instead, it took months and she lawyered up and only got a slap on the wrist.
And then there’s the sociopath known as Laine. This poses an interesting dilemma across all disciplines. So, you have some really nice horses that save your ass. And you can’t ride them and yet because they are such nice horses, you keep qualifying up the levels. And finally, you run your horse at a fence as you normally do (she does it ALL the time, even at the lowest levels), and you flip him. So, what’s the charge? In a regular USEA sanctioned event, we have now the DR (dangerous riding) rule with a possible suspension barring you from competitions. But it’s not enacted in the FEI. So if the competition is Rolex or Fair Hill, you can ride dangerously and get away with it. Sure, they say they have the yellow flagging and if you get one waved at you, it means ‘stop pulling your shit’ and a red flag, you get pulled off course but they don’t use it. Sure, they did at Burghley after the Laine issue but subsequently, I haven’t heard a thing.
WHAT AN IDIOT !!!! It was very clear that HE didn’t line the horse up properly (unless he was going to jump the standard)…and was embarrassed so he took it out on the poor horse….. JERK !!!! If I was there at the out gate I would have said as he was coming out “WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT” really loud. What an IDIOT … oh I already said that.
While we’re on the topic, even the *good* race trainers/jockeys/owners more often than not beat their horses down the home stretch. I know you’re pro “the good side of racing” but overuse of the whip is an epidemic. There was a statistical study (I read about it in Horse and Hound but I can’t find a link now) that found using the whip does NOT improve perfromance. Also, candid interviews with jockeys revealed that many of them whipped horses they knew were at max capacity and were totaly out of the money because they were worried betters/trainers/owners might suspect them of throwing the race.
The guy attempting to jump that horse pisses me off. I cannot stand when people think hitting a horse in that manner or at all will ever accomplish anything. Sure some horses need discipline but it should never be in the form of punishment. His first attempt at the jump didnt even look like he tried to make the horse jump, extra reason for him to not beat the poor thing. lol. These hunter jumpers punish their horses for being non responsive when they have only taught the horses to be dull to nearly every command and cue.
Wow, this is why I love the internet, for learning and also for outing those ‘experts’ and ‘professional’ horse riders out there that need outing, good one!
It is stagging to think that he got away with the mistreatment of the horse, but he knows people in high places obviously! But at least WE know he he THINKS he got away with, thank you! There is no room for behaviour like that, in or out of the ring, it is just poor bad sportsmanship and they should start to consider, nearly everyone has a camera/video recorder and they too many feature on fluglyblog.com
You all might be interested to know that BOTH the FEI and the USEF are pressing charges against Morrissey, and they will even have a look at what the ground jury did (or didn’t). Bravo!
FEI PRESS RELEASE
Lausanne, 13 April 2010
FEI AND USEF BOTH INITIATE CHARGES IN ABUSE CASE
The FEI and the United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) have both initiated charges under their respective rules against Michael Morrissey (USA), following an incident in class 101 at the Wellington CSI 2* held on 27 February 2010. The FEI will also be investigating the role of the Ground Jury in this incident.
Given the fact that both the International and National Federations will issue charges for the same set of factual circumstances, the FEI and the USEF will coordinate their existing regulatory procedures to ensure a fair process for the rider and seek the right outcome for the equestrian community.
You are most welcome. I am on the FEI mailinglist, and I will post any future announcements I get from them about this as well. If someone doesn’t beat me to it.
What the hell is s/he doing??? I agree 100% that is incredibly stupid abusive behaviour, TOTALLY ineffective as training and mind boggling to watch. Disgusting display of a bad temper- person should not be in charge of anyone or anything that breathes.
Heck. I’m now riding a horse who gets pissy and surly. He stops it if you carry a whip.
So, guess what? I’m not carrying one. Because I don’t want him to behave because he’s afraid I’m going to hit him. I want him to behave *whatever*. That’s our goal. For him to drop the teenager-asked-to-clean-his-room attitude because he wants his rider to be happy, not because he doesn’t want to get popped with a whip.
I had a mare about 20 years ago who was so soured from spurs that I couldn’t use any leg AT ALL for the first 90 days or so.
She came around. We just went off voice commands ’til she did. Cluck to trot, kiss to canter. She figured out I was going to be nice to her and turned into a very nice open show horse.
One pony, she took off with people because she was scared…and the old school previous owner only had one answer to that. Curb bit.
I rode her for three months with no use of the reins. NONE. No contact, stopping on the seat, until she was ready to accept contact again. In a snaffle, needless to say.
If Morrissey had presented the horse properly there would have been no problem but you can’t punish a horse for rider error. If that is how he behaves in front of thousands how does he behave at his stables when there is nobody watching? http://www.offyoutrot.co.uk/blog/michael-morrissey-charged-abusing-horse/
I agree with ruling out paint and fear before administering punishment, and when punishment is administered it must be swift and just. Horses understand cause and effect very well. This is where quite a few fears become founded and quite a few good habits are started.
My arabX was stubborn mostly, but I think he was partially blind looking in hindsight. He would get spooky and hoppy near shadowy things and would need to be able to check the thing out to be sure it wasn’t a shadow beast come to snack on his flesh. But he would also pull bucks when I would ask him to move forward at something faster than a feet-dragging walk, this was because a buck or a rear used to get him out of working. some of his fits may have been from my saddle, too, though. I discovered a hot spot on his back just under my seat once and stopped using my saddle on him. He behaved while bareback, so I discontinued the use of that saddle on him for all further in-saddle training sessions.
Mikey, mate I dare you to come try that on with my mare. I promise that you will be on the ground before the second smack of the whip. Dare you. I’m not too worried that you’ll upset my pony, you’ll definately come off worse than her, especially if you are as obviously under as you are in that clip. I cannot believe that you even made it out of novice jumpin with that kind of horrid riding.
ridiculous! watching this made me absolutely sick. that poor horse.
What, was he drunk? He steered the horse wrong, then the horse gets whipped like crazy for his mistake. Why are these organizations too afraid to actually enforce their own rules? Do they think it will upset people or make them lose money? The FEI will DQ for little things, but they are going to let the horse-beating rule slide?
I’m totally for a very bad horse getting a smack, heck, I’m for a bad child getting a smack too, which parents can hardly do anymore for fear of child abuse charges. There’s assertive and being a bully, and that dude’s crossed the line here. I’d like to strap a couple hundred pounds to that dude’s back and then chase him around the course with a whip, see how he likes it.
In contrast–the happy show jumper is so cute! I love the “Woo-hoo!” jump he does at the end, and how the rider just lets him be happy. Didn’t Milton always have to buck after a course?
Dude, you should visit a Midwestern Wal-mart someday, where I swear families take their kids just so the parents can “whup yer fuckin’ ass.” And I quote.
Anyway, here’s a very interesting study – it’s possible that judicious corporal punishment in children UNDER age 6 is very beneficial. I tend to concur, esp. in matters involving personal safety (running out in the street, etc.), since very small children aren’t the most sophisticated thinkers. Crafty, yes, but not sophisticated. Now, if they’re just having a “I’m very tired/confused/hungry/overwhelmed” meltdown, I tend to do the time out thing, because corporal punishment is just going to escalate an already negative situation. Something to break the downward spiral of drama IS sometimes necessary, like a joke, a weird noise, maybe even a squirt from a squirt gun or spray bottle.
This approach seems to also work with dogs and horses.
Just… ugh.
You can even see right after the refusal that the horse moves towards the center of the jump, and it even looks like (though I wouldn’t swear to it) he starts to attempt it.
But no. He had to pull him aside and beat him, rather than just letting the horse take the jump a little sloppy, or circling around for another attempt calmly.
He could have been drunk, actually — well, no, I lied. There is a high likelihood he was norting cocaine. This is Grand Prix jumping, some of those people put as much money up their noses as they do into their training.
And cocaine makes a lot of people, especially people who were assholes to begin with, into violently narcissistic egotists. The combination of money and assholery — they never hear the word ”no” and have their streets gilded with 24k gold — with a drug habit that requires a lot of money to sustain and brings out the bad sides of one’s personality to boot … yep, perfect recipe for a good old time.
So there you have it. He was possibly snorting cocaine, and is definitely an asshole.
No, it was Ryan’s Son…same rider, different horse. Always three bucks after the last fence.
So, was that low little jump that the horse eventually jumped after getting whacked 17 times, the jump he was supposed to jump? It seems kind of weird to throw a 2-foot jump in among a course with 4-foot plus jumps, you can’t blame the horse for thinking he was supposed to jump the wing as a skinny–and the rider wasn’t steering to him to either one!
Apparently, if I as a rider don’t know the course (let alone having planned how to jump it) the thing to do is whack my horse until the correct map of the course jumps into his mind.
One little pop on the shoulder if the horse is sucking back before the jump, and no more than 3 whacks behind the girth to punish a refusal– assuming you had your horse straight to the jump and in a distance possible to jump it safely–is what I was taught in Pony Club long ago.
I believe it was the water “fence” in the video. It’s low, but very wide and filled (of course) with water. The horse has to strech over it and land beyond the white tape on the other side in order to jump it clear.
That was the liverpool, or water element I guess you could call it. At the level represented in this video, the spread of this liverpool would probably be between 12 and 16 feet… so the horse definitely needs the rider to bring him in straight to the fence. Which he didn’t.
The jump wasn’t a little fence, but an open water — very wide.
Now, I agree 1000% that the rider was excessive and offensive and throwing a little tantrum — but I stopped watching the rider and rewatched the video several times comparing the line the rider was riding on both approaches. THEY ARE THE SAME LINE — until, during the first approach, the horse runs out. It’s the horse that changes direction.
Since someone has posted that the horse has a known aversion to water, I’m surprised the rider wasn’t more alert to the possibility. At his skill level, I would expect him to feel the resistance the *instant* it began, and take immediate action as soon as the deviation from the line started. That was the rider’s FIRST mistake — by the time he even used the crop, it was way too late to punish for the actual misbehavior. When the rider DID discipline, it was the wrong time, the wrong amount, the wrong attitude — everything wrong. Instead of punishing the misbehavior, he punished the horse for HIS own inattention to business.
On the happy jumper clip — I particularly like how the rider goes with the whole thing, not catching the horse with bit or spurs during the buck.
You can’t see it from this angle, but it’s a water jump — wide rather than tall. The water is on the other side of the little jump. A commenter below mentioned that this horse has serious issues with water jumps and has been passed from rider to rider because of it.
Yeah, but he’s had him at least 4 years – there is an article about him competing that horse in 2006. So this is NOT a new team and he KNOWS his horse’s quirks.
Poor horse. You wonder what this rider does to it in training when the cameras aren’t on him.
He should have known better — he’s not a clueless beginner, or someone riding in a developing nation. (Some things I’ve seen travelling in Asia are bad. But horse-owners are often uneducated and impoverished themselves).
This is a world apart. The organizers of the event should also be ashamed. After all, they are a professional body.
My teacher didn’t let me use a crop in the beginning — not before I mastered leg, seat, hand and voice aids. Then she explained when it was OK, or not OK — plus which horses needed it less or more.
I have no problem with controlled, judicious crop use. After all, animals communicate with each other physically, too. Sometimes, a quick tap is more merciful than endless kicking or yanking on the reins.
But this is ridiculous.
Thanks for posting. I hope it causes this guy to rethink how he rides.
I TOTALY agre. TOTALY TOTALY TOTALY.
However, if this is your position on the use of crops/whips then you shouldn’t be in favour of the racing industry where even the good trainers/jockeys/owners beat their horses down the home stretch. It’s an epidemic and there isn’t anything those horses can do to stop those beatings either.
There was even a study or two in the UK (I read about them in Horse and Hound but can’t find them now) which showed that whipping did not improve performance. Many off the record interviews with jockeys revealed that often they whipped horses (who they knew were already at max capacity) only because if they didn’t they felt betters/trainers/owners might suspect them of throwing the race and they wanted to protect their careers more than they wanted to protect their mounts.
I’m not against judicious use of crops/whips at all and in theory I’m not against racing horses either but in practice the entire racing industry is overrun with over and unfair use of whips (among many evils). If this is really how you feel about whips then I think your support of the “good†people in the racing industry is a bit hypocritical because they’re responsible for just as bad and worse on a much more regular basis.
In that vein, I LOVED watching Thoroughbred Richard’s Kid win the Pacific Cup Classic at Del Mar last fall. His jockey, Mike Smith, dropped his whip “deep in the stretch” and Richard’s Kid came on like gangbusters. It was great. There are videos on youtube also.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/52459/richards-kid-roars-in-pacific-classic-upset
Chances are, the horse’s owners don’t care. They’ll attribute the rider’s behavior to “training” methods mere mortals would never comprehend, since he’s in a different league i.e. the same shit the pleasure horse people pull when their phony jerk-and-spur shit gets called out.
“You’re just jealous.”
“You don’t understand.”
“You could never understand.”
The reason trainers and riders continue with their little tantrums is because no one stops them. The judges don’t care, the other riders don’t care, and the owners don’t give a flying fuck so long as their horses are winning. And they do keep winning, because the judges don’t care. So, rather than correct the behavior, or call them out for being jackasses, you have everyone around them acting as enablers.
I’d say go ahead and spank this guy with a crop, just like he did his horse. But sick little fucks like this – they’d probably enjoy it.
You hit the nail on the head.
When a lot of the WP horses started getting cranked, yanked & jerked around, when the rollkur thing took hold in dressage, when Big Lick horses started getting sored, Arabian halter horse abuse….etc etc etc ad nauseum, why didn’t the judges stand up and say “NO NO NO!!!!!”
Well, we all know why. And it’s positively sordid. And somehow the corruption settled in so deep, that what knowledgeable and impartial outsiders see as grotesque is considered “normal” in their circles. It’s brainwashing.
If judges stopped rewarding shitty movement and rider/handler abuse, and even bothered to enforce rules already in place, just exactly where would these so-called “professionals” get to show? Nowhere. Not only that, but all the wannabes that emulate them would have nothing and nowhere to show. Judges across the board could clean up the entire industry in a couple weekends, if they gave a shit. They’d only have to offer their own rulebook as evidence for enforcement.
I think the answer is obvious. Judges have no moral courage. (Call the waaaahmbulance.)
I’ll tell you what – it’s not judges specifically.
It’s people in general.
And all the intimidation tactics I was warned about – all the crap people told me went on in the show world? 100% true. Hell, I thought they were being drama queens. Uh, no. Apparently it really IS like being back in Junior High school. I’ve already been informed, through intermediaries of course – (pussies!) – that my horse WILL NOT be placed because I DARE to speak out about those who do wrong in the show ring.
We shall see. I’m eager to see just how much control the bullies actually have. The horse isn’t solid enough to test that theory out reliably yet, but he will be.
If I get video of my horse going fabulous and not being placed, well, I think that would be a highly entertaining blog topic – don’t you?
It’s all politics, so what’s new? It seems like it’s impossible to get away from politics no matter where you are!
The people showing under these judges with no moral courage are the judge’s biggest defenders. They defend their horse’s shitty movement, their godawful horsemanship, and training abuse by virtue of consistently winning and placing under these chickenshit judges.
In their mind, they’re the players, and they get to define what’s appropriate or inappropriate in the show ring. The judges rewarding their bullshit enable them to speak from a perceived position of authority.
It’s called a symbiotic relationship, bordering on incestuous. But the judges are the ones who give final thumbs up or thumbs down. They’re the ones handing the power over to these players in the freak show. Without the judges validating them, they’d just be another asshole with an opinion.
I was told a judge at an AQHA show in Southern Oregon announced he would enforce rules, and horses with heads lower then the withers would not be placed. From what I was told he did just that, and the show committee replaced him by lunch due to the complaints. Not sure if its true, but if it is, wish I had been there. That judge’s steak dinner would have been on me.
I’d almost guarantee that was true. Oregon QHA seems to have a higher than average share of asshats. Oregon in general, sheesh, the Paint circuit is pretty godawful too. Yank, yank, crank, crank. Oregon is the place to go if you want to see miserable horses that look like they’d rather be dead, troping sideways with their ears pinned.
The things some trainers do to show jumpers to ensure they never refuse is disgusting. There’s one trainer, I can’t think of his name off the top of my head, but when one of his horses is in the ring, and they look like there is any possibility that they might refuse a jump, he whistles and the horse will jump it, whether they are 1 or 5 strides away. Why? In training, he sits up on a hill, and whenever the horse refuses he whistles and shoots their butt with a BB gun. There certainly isn’t as much ‘obvious’ abuse in the hunter/jumper circuit, compared to other disciplines, but behind the scenes theres plenty.
WTF was he trying to do the first time, jump over the wing of the jump? That horse was nowhere near in position, I could see that and I have NO, none, zero, zip, zilch experience with jumpers. What an asshat, he beat that poor horse over the jump the second time (did he even stop whipping the horse before he cleared jump?).
And I was always taught that crops are an extension of your arm, spurs are an extension of your heel. You are responsible for how they are used just the same as you are resposible for how you ride. Thanks, Grandpa!
And BTW- My grandpa would have snatched me right off the horse and used the crop on me if I whipped a horse that way.
So would my old instructor.
$$$ or no $$$.
I agree. Too much discipline will make a sour horse, especially when they know they’ve done nothing wrong, and potentially cause the horse to fear you. Not enough discipline and being a “push over” will result you in becoming a door mat. Not an if but a when. I know two extreme cases, one a quater horse that was broke the old way (three legs tied together, and left to bake in the sun for three days to “break his spirit”. Yup they certainly did, the result one very afraid horse) or a Walker I know that is absolutely terrified of humans. To me too much discipline (like someone throwing a hissy fit) is the same as abuse. While I ride a pony that likes to try and buck me off. Because he was ruined by green people. I don’t like to wear spurs, yet I own one western set and an english set (their like rowled cutting spurs, points rounded off), just for him. With the pony I usually have to give one or two good swats, not hard, but enough to make him understand he needs to move forward, stop being an ass, etc. Normally a light tap or two will make any horse or pony wake up. Not him. Or he doesn’t take me seriously. And when I do he looks at me with liquid brown puppy dog eyes (which people have fallen for) and goes “Why’d ya do that for?” When he knew exactly why I did it. Samething with the spurs. He knows that if he doesn’t listen to the crop, spurs soon follow. Usually I just have to roll them on his sides lightly and he gets the picture. He’s very smart and he knows what I expect out of him, it’s just that he was taught if he could weasle out of work, he would. Wrong, he just gets a smack and harder work. He’s gotten much better and more cooperative, usually I just have to change the tone of my voice, and he knows I’m unhappy with him, and if he doesn’t behave I will make him do more work. So there are two extremes; discipline too harshly and you may just end up with a scared shitless horse, be too leniant (I know someone like this, she’s super nice to everyone, but has no idea what disciplinning her horses mean) and your just a walking door mat.
Here’s another example, working with another different pony that dipshit owner did nothing with (had 90 days of training six or seven years ago T_T; didn’t want him any more
so know he’s ours 
so something can be done with him.), doesn’t know how to clip, be bathed (has accepted leg washing. Just waiting for a nice day in the PNW to try and bathe him.), or ttrailer (ugh). He’s a good sport and doesn’t really spook at anything (unless it’s the trailer), which is surprising considering nothing has been done with him. So one day I get out my small trimmers and decide to trim his long hairy legs. The worst he did was paw and knock the trimmers out of my hands. Part of unsure what the vibrating thing on his legs, part unsure how to react. I never lost my patience, I just kept going at it. Now would I have put up with this same crap or worse from a horse that I know has years of experience of being trimmed and clipped? No, probably not. Unless they had a bad experience and want to let me know……… Also to prevent abuse you might want to come and visit your horse/pony more than ONCE A YEAR. Luckily ethical people (for the most part we did have a theif who was dealt with) only board there, so he just got love and attention no matter what. And a swat or two if he’s just being an ass undersaddle….. I’m not kidding with once a year *head desk*, pony could have been anything besides fat and happy………
Holy crap!! He’s not just popping that horse, he’s WAILING on him. Im not into jumping, but it doesn’t take a pro jumper to see that what he is doing is WAY out of line.
When I first got started riding NATRC competitive trail rides some years ago, there was a guy I rode with who would beat his horse about the head. I mean, not just a smack on the upper neck, he would whale on the poor thing’s head and ears. The horse was a nervous wreck (probably because it was terrified of its rider) and every time it shied or spooked or stopped, he would beat the crap out of it. He never did it in front of a judge, of course, but out on the trail when he thought nobody was looking…
Fortunately for the horse, the guy seems to have worked through his tantrums- I recently saw him in competition and the horse was much calmer and happier and the guy wasn’t beating on it any more. I was so glad to see that!
My current competitive trail horse is good as gold- except when she gets upset- then she rears. Since birth she’s been that way- panic or extreme frustration will make her rear, and no amount of non-violent training has stopped it. I mostly have learned to recognize the signs she’s getting upset and do something to intervene and calm her down, before she gets upset enough to go up. But when she does get too light on the front end and I can feel her start to rear up, I whack the S**T out of her on the upper neck behind her poll- just one hard slap- and it always stops the rear. As soon as she’s back on all 4 feet, I go on like nothing happened. It’s like it hits the RESET button. Very effective, and she definitely has an option to not get whacked again- don’t rear and I won’t whack! In fact she’s finally starting to respond to me leaning forward to whack her- she gets light in the front, I raise my hand and lean, and she goes back down, preventing the whack. So I guess I am training her out of it… and she’s not becoing fearful or headshy, because she knows why i’m smacking her and how to stop it from happening.
I have one of those super-sensitive types, too- my 4yo gelding I am training to saddle, is so sensitive just making an ugly face at him is sufficient! The other one, if you make an ugly face, she just tries to give you a hug!
oi. i totally thought he was only going to hit him once (the first time). and then maybe a reminder a stride out to make sure he actually leaves. that wasn’t even a dirty stop.
and when i watched it i was totally confused because i thought it was three smacks behind the leg was your limit?? that’s such a load that he didn’t get DQ-ed.
Not that I agree with the agressivness he rode this horse to the jump..I have heard this horse has been passed around from rider to rider over extream dislike of the water jump or getting anywhere near one. A good friend of mine is friends with the owner so all of this is hear say but at one point they thought that his fobia of the water jump might be the end of his grand prix career, but since hes been with Michael hes really come into himself and is getting better each time out. I can look at this video and smile because I have a grand prix drop out he won’t get with in 3 strides of a water jump before he slams on the breaks and throws huge fit. So his new career is a working hunter no scarry water jumps for him.
Then this animal needs more remedial training over water and simply isn’t ready to show- and he has no place schooling that horse in this venue. It is common knowledge that personality quirks and training issues magnify under pressure- for both horse and rider.
But I was torqued about the dressage at last year’s olympics too. So many disobediant horses with fancy movement and talent placing in the medals. At that level, the obedience should just be a given.
That pissed me off too. I guess ANKY doesn’t actually have to halt and Isabelle Werth didn’t exactly get the piaffe she asked for yet they got gold and silver medals. WTF?!
In the dog world, we call it “judging the wrong end of the lead.” I’ve seen some pretty poor dogs place because someone with fame similar to Anky and Isabel was holding the leash. It sucks.
Sigh. If we all refused to enter under the corrupt, “status quo” judges, we might make a difference. But that ain’t gonna happen, is it?
There’s a petition out there asking FEI to enforce their own dam rules.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justsayyesto401/
Ruthie
Well maybe it is a case of the rider thinking the horse was refusing because of that past history – but actually it appeared to me that the horse was keying in on the red swirly jump, and his rider failed to catch that in time to redirect him to the correct jump. Then I do think his rider over corrected with the whip – after the fact. If I had a steering fail like that I might have given him a pop on the right shoulder to get him over the correct jump on the second try. But I wouldn’t have gone to that excess.
But regardless of the horse’s history or what the rider thought – if it is 3 wacks and you are out – then he should have been DQed. If “them’s the rules” than that’s it.
OT-But along the lines of dumb perpetuating more dumb. Local morning news has a pet shop on as guests hocking reptiles and reccomending small snakes as good first pets. I kept snakes for a long time, mostly pythons and boas (they don’t shed hair, don’t smell, and only eat and poop about once a week). They also need heat rocks/lamps, UV bulbs to simulate sunlight, a moist environment, vitamin supplements, and here’s the big one- many need live food! I’m picturing misguided people with hungry, cold snakes that have eyecaps, vitamin deficiencies, respiratory infections and mite infestations. I acquired several in that condition from people who had no clue what work they were when they purchased them. BYBers know no bounds when it comes to species…
Yep. My boss runs reptile rescue out of our grooming shop. Even ones left abandoned with us by former loving homes- are stunted & under weight. We’ve taken all kinds in Turtle/tortoise, lizards, and snakes. We have 2 ball pythons who have been seriously over heated and are now very aggressive. I’m guessing brain damage. But noone thinks anything of animal abuse when it comes to a reptile.
That is so sad about the Ball Pythons, they can be so docile if handled and cared for properly. I actually started with a captive-bred Ball and she had the best temperment and was the easiest to handle of my snakes. Now this witch of a Peruvian Boa I had on the other hand…I also took a in 14ft female Albino Burmese with a severe mite infestation, respiratory infection so bad her nostrils had to cleaned 3x a day and very skinny. Couldn’t keep her long-term because of her size, especially since she topped out at 120lbs after gaining her weight back! She now peacefully resides in the reptile exhibit of a large zoo and they are quite happy to have her. Hat’s off to anyone that rehabs herps, it definitely isn’t for everyone!
I knew a girl in non-horse 4H who did herps in a BIG way.
She did an amazing rehab job on a rat snake (I think it was) that had been in my least favorite HS biology teacher’s room. She begged him to give her the snake – he was underweight, lethargic, and had an incredible abscess on his head.
She got him all fixed up, and he obviously liked her – in his snakey way – he was so sleek and shiny! But he always had a scar on his head that looked like a cigarette burn on every molt.
She was a very awesome person.
That’s awesome! I really like snakes, I think they’re cool I just like them better when they’re behind glass and I’m not the one that has to feed them . I have this really weird fear of them. I know that there really is no reason to be afraid of most of them. We went to a special snake museum in Drumheller once, where they have two boa’s they let people hold and take pictures with. I was terrified of those two even though I really had no reason to be and I knew it, but I was still freaked out.
I can usually read animals pretty well, but I think the reason I’m so freaked out when it comes to snakes it the fact that I can’t read them AT ALL. If one was pissed off at me and was going to strangle me I wouldn’t have a clue. Everything I just said was pertaining to constrictors though. I will never get near a venomous snake in a million years, even if it was “de-venomed” AND had no fangs.
Oh, they warn you just the same as any other animal. There are just no facial expressions to read. It’s all in how they are holding their body and the tension in their muscles. When I had my Peruvian Boa Constricter she taught me real quick how to tell when a snake was going to strike and constrict on you, and how to tell the difference between a strike out of fear/invasion of space and hunting.
This is completely off topic from this post…
But why in English disciplines when people are posting the trot, some people look like they are almost trying to stand out of the stirrups? I ride western and was taught to sit the trot unless you get a really bouncy trotter and even then make it very subtle that you are posting. The girl in the video you posted today looks natural at it and awesome. Some videos though, I can’t figure out if the people are humping the horse or trying to jump out of the saddle.
And I fully agree the guy whipping the horse? He should have been kicked out. That poor horse really didn’t have options as the guy was whipping the horse even as it was following his command.
Well, I’m sure it’s true that some people over-post. I see it most often in AQHA hunter equitation classes… But mostly english riders ride many different types of horses with different lengths of stride and range of suspension than typically exists in western type horses. In other words, the greater the force you are being thrown out of the saddle with coupled with how much core strength you have/need to minimize the rise of your body and return lightly to the saddle (which is more important than how much you rise) is the result of how much you actually rise. If you ride similar types of horses all the time (western types or hunter equitation types) then getting on a large warmblood or even a smaller horse with greater suspension will challenge your ability to control the height of your rise from the saddle.
This super cute gray mare is definately a hunter equitation prospect with her very flat gaits- once she learns the lesson of the yoke she is wearing.
It depends on the horse and rider, stirrup length, working trot vs. extended trot vs. a jog…..
Good riding means letting the horse push you out of the saddle when posting, rather than the rider standing up in the stirrups every other beat.
A lot of Arabs, Morgans, etc. will give you a bouncy trot that feels like you’re going to the moon.
A lot of TB’s and QHs have a long, lower stride that will barely bounce your butt up out of the saddle.
A straight-shouldered, high-necked horse will give you a bouncier trot, whereas a more laid-back shoulder will give you a longer stride and less-bouncy trot.
Being able to effectively sit the trot on a Friesian or other carriage-type horse while maintaining quiet hands and a good leg is the mark of a REALLY good rider.
The horse in the video is really cute, and had some very awesome moments of self-carriage. I wouldn’t mind riding her, once she has some more finishing – which might simply require more miles on her, or maybe a little more directed training, I don’t know. But I like how she moves, and she’s just really pretty.
The rider is pretty good, though she could stand to have quieter hands and needs to get her leg back under her a skosh. She does nice automatic diagonal changes in her figure 8′s, which makes me giggle, because I do that too, even if the rest of the figure 8 is a total hot mess for me and looks more like a squished Peep bunny…..
I commend her for taking time with a rescue horse, and her unquiet hands might simply be happening because she’s trying to invite more flexion, I think. She’s not viciously seesawing like sooooo many riders & trainers I see around here.
Yeah, she is a young mare and I don’t criticize anybody’s equitation when they are riding a young OTTB on a cold day in a big field!
I know how pretty I’d look doing that, which would be not at all.
Yep, I give her a pass.
The horse isn’t really fighting her or anything, and for once, the martingale seems to be used CORRECTLY – unlike the horrific “training forks” I see so often around here.
Man, that’s a nice mare.
I swear, someday I’ll get me an OTTB, but I’m maxxed out at one horse (a freebie at that) at this point in my life.
This might sound stupid but I didn’t realize posting was such a difficult thing to do……
Part of the reason I don’t teach lessons is because I just don’t get how people don’t get it. Posting is one of those things I just do and have always done and didn’t need to be taught, I was just able to do it naturally.
I did try to teach one guy to post and it failed badly lol. I went to college with this guy and he didn’t have a clue how to post (or ride at all for that matter) so I tried to help. Yup three years later, Sovereign award winning apprentice jockey of the year Omar Moreno still can’t post a trot!
http://www.thestar.com/sports/horseracing/article/789266
Just thought I’d add here…
Posting, like sitting the trot, is an art form. The bigger the trot, the more concentration, seat and leg control it takes, from both perspectives. Equitation takes time and practice in all disciplines. I will have to agree with you tough on seeing some of the “saddle humpers”- makes you feel a little uncomfy watching them eh?
I also can’t stand the “double bouncers” who have trainers… lets concentrate on their ponding the horses back before we worry about whether they polished their boots today shall we? 
As for the spanker, it’s sad, but it happens all over as Fugly points out, without recourse. I hate that it takes a behind the scenes effort after-the-fact to do something about this and that people don’t stand up at or around the time it occurs. But action is better than inaction and hopefully some change comes about and they begin to enforce the rules.
I watched this video several times and he whipped that horse no less than 13 times. To me, it didn’t look like he was lined up with the jump amd the horse looked confused as to whether it was supposed to go over that particular jump. IMHO that did not look like an outright refusal but more like a confused horse. Now I will agree that this jerk is unprofessional, and the punishment exacted on this poor horse is excessive, I don’t think the guy was maliciously abusing the horse. He should be DQ’d for his poor horsemanship and if there is any penalty for his behavior, he definitely deserves it. To me what he did is not even as bad as someone jerking on a horse’s mouth, although highly innappropriate and inexcusable. Flame on.
I see a horse who seems to be steering for the big circle at the side of the water jump, then turns towards the red and white jump. Possibly it is trying to avoid the water. Possibly the rider was planning on tricking it with a last-minute turn towards the water. Possibly the rider wasn’t paying attention, and the horse headed for the jump it preferred.
Either way, he was stupid. He should have acted as soon as the horse was heading anywhere else than the middle of the jump. And, of course, he punished the horse – just contributing to its idea that water jumps are a bad idea.
And, yes, that goon should have been disqualified.
Ruthie
I can’t remember the last time I rode with a crop. I also cannot remember the last time I wished I had a crop while I was riding. My sensitive TBs respond well enough to a little growl. Smack them and I think we’d be off to the races! The last time I actually smacked my gelding was when he started turning his haunches like he was going to kick another horse and I simply reached around and flat handed him on the rear and that stopped him in his tracks and he was chagrinned for days. Sometimes it’s all in the tone of the voice….beating a horse for doing what he’s suppose to do (like the horse in the video, going forward to a fence, or fence standard in the first attempt) just does nothing but confuse them.
Um, he hit that horse 13 times. THIRTEEN. He should have been booted out of that ring instantly, disqualified for his round on that horse and not allowed any other rides for the duration of that competition. I hope he looks back on this moment and just cringes, but I have a feeling (based on those THIRTEEN belts from the crop) that he’s the type of guy who’d read this post and think everyone who sees a problem with this is just some soft-hearted woman who’s too afraid to discipline a horse. I mean, if he has no problem whacking a horse like that in the ring during a competition in front of the judge, his fellow competitors, the media and spectators, what the hell is he doing to his horses back home?
I’m a long-time reader of the blog who just let herself sign up to comment now that I’m finished school for the year, and what a first post to comment on. Geeeeeeeesh!
I don’t jump so my comments may not apply but I can sure see how the guy in this first video is doing little more than teaching his horse that he is a weak idiot with an unfair way. That horse will not respect, trust or like him in the end for that.
Watching herd behavior is a great way to learn what kind of discipline works with a horse. For example, if one gets a horse with no/rude ground manners, why not try some horse communication? This was shown to me by a gal who studies with Leslie Desmond and it was absolutely amazing. We put my newly purchased, over handled, nippy young stallion in an alley way that was about 40 feet long and 12 feet wide. He was on one side, wanting to rejoin his new buddies. My trainer stood in different areas of the alleyway and I “took” the gateway. We each looked at a particular rock that was maybe thirty feet in front of us and if the stallion started to cross between us and the rock, we acted aggressively without ever looking at him or making direct moves at him. We just “took the space’ much like a horse would take a pile of hay away from another horse. His reaction was amusing. He threw fits until he just stood and looked at us like; “wow, they must be boss mares.” We did this for about an hour ending where we “allowed” him to pass through the gate to his buddies. He did not have halter/lead rope on so all of his rearing and throwing fits were safe for us. I am leaving a lot of this out because we did a bit more than just taking one rock but my point is that when we watch how horses communicate with each other, we can learn a lot. When we next haltered this stallion, he was very respectful because he realized that we were higher in the pecking order and even the habit of swinging his head towards us to bite and then swinging back was gone.. When we just whack on a horse, we teach the horse how weak we are. They kick each other and barely blink. If a horse respects and trusts us with a clear understanding that we are like a big fair but stern boss mare, lots of bad behavior just goes away. I am not saying that this applies to rogue horses so I am not making recommendations for every horse. I am just trying to make the point that trying to understand a horse’s communication and herd interaction gets us a long ways. If I ever hit a horse, I hit him hard enough in the right place to get his attention and I know why I am hitting. (I hit a horse maybe once a year and I have over 20 horses.) It is not out of anger but it is to enforce that I am in charge. For another example, I do not allow my horses to crowd the gates. If my stallion crowds the gate, I will ask him to back and then I ask again in case he was distracted the first time and it was not clear. If he does not get back; I hit him really hard with the gate without looking at him. It is not personal. It is just my gate and my path and he needs to move now. Does that make sense? I only had to do that one time and now I just have to ask for my space and he moves. (Unless he is distracted by the girls and then I ask again a bit louder. However, it is wonderful to have a spirited strong stallion understand that my space is my space and it is not personal. (Just don’t look a horse in the face or eye to discipline. That is a different thing to them. Watch how they discipline each other. A boss mare likes the rest of the herd so she does not “stare” them down. She just takes care of business and keeps it impersonal.) It is amazing how many things can be solved on the ground before one gets into the saddle or cart. (I drive so I need a clear communication with my horse.)
Just one more quick thought. I have seen my trainer work with a difficult problem time and time again. She never gets angry or aggressive. She is clear about her intentions in every way including being conscious of her body language and she can be firm, especially where it concerns her space. After the lesson, the horse is so happy and relaxed because he finally got it and she was a good leader. There is lots of yawning and licking lips. It is a wonderful thing to watch. Horses enjoy a good leader and it is our responsibility to be a good one.
See, now the first thing I have to say is: if you are showing at that level, shouldn’t you have sensed that your horse wasn’t moving forward towards that jump AND that you weren’t straight to the fence – and done a correction BEFORE the horse refused – you know, like most of us can notice in the video a good five strides out? Getting straight(er) to the fence and THEN using a tap with the crop to encourage would have been FAR more useful then waiting until the horse ran out on the fence and then smacking him repeatedly when he wasn’t even FACING the fence he just ran out on. Just a thought!
Regardless of this horse’s history, that horse did not learn a damn thing in this video.
I had a friend who threw a similar fit during warm ups at a show, right in front of the judge. She wasn’t excused but she didn’t place in anything except jumper classes all day. Anything equitation-related, nada.
I hope this rider has been excused from the trials and goes back to the basics for a while. Time to learn good horsemanship – then you actually EARN the chance to head for the top of your sport.
I agree with littlemisspriss. If this guy is doing this in public, can you imagine what is going on when no one is watching?
Or maybe they are and afraid to say anything to Mister Big Shot. When I was a kid I remember a trainer at a (at the time) well known gaited horse barn beat the shit out of a client’s horse while I stood there and watched, horrified. He left welts an inch high all over that horse. The owner discovered what he did and took her horse out of that barn the same day. BTW that guy is still training Arabs in Iowa.
I hope Mike’s clients are keeping an eye on their horses and making surprise visits to the barn!
OT Please let everyone know that they are trying to get Horse Slaughter Plants opened up in Tennessee! Please help stop
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100408/NEWS0201/4080345/Willie+Nelson+s+protest+in+TN+doesn+t+stop+horse+slaughter+bill
Awful! But gives me one more reason to LOVE Willie Nelson!
That makes me love Willie even more! He is obviously very influential in his family.
God, thats horrible. The more time I spend with animals/rescue, the more I hate people.
Michael Morrissey was a Hack, and gave his horsey 13 whacks, and when FEI saw what he had done, the end results reduced by one!
At least, that’s what they said, anyway.
LOL!! Love it!
*loves*
I’ve been riding horses for 35 years, mostly H/J. I have to say just one thing: Horses NEVER forget. He better PRAY HARD next time he comes into a line the wrong way headed over a five foot oxer. The horse can save your ass, or not.
You guess the outcome.
Fugs, thanks for bringing this into the light ‘o day in your Blog, but please fully credit Karen Robinson and her wonderful ‘Straight Up’ dressage blog at the Horse Canada site: http://www.horse-canada.com/?p=3305. Good stuff dear Fugleyites!
Karen originally posted about Mr Bad Boy Morrissey on March 21. I did a little simple sleuthing after seeing her post and found that this guy has had quite a bit of time to fully develop his very public whip hand – almost 2 years ago his name came up in a Times article covering a Nations Cup class at Hickstead, and it wasn’t because he put in a brilliant round:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4402038.ece
Shame on you USEF & FEI; this brat needs an extended time-out.
“Michael Morrissey, the only male rider in the team, was eliminated at the water on Crelido, his overenthusiastic use of the whip producing palpable disapproval from the crowd.”
Obviously didn’t use the intervening time to school that horse over water jumps properly. Good on the crowd. I hope they booed.
That run-out is 100% the (highly experienced, should-have-know-better) rider’s fault and his subsequent reaction is simply a temper tantrum. Poor Mickey… did all those expensive horses, Grand Prix shows, press and earnings just get to be too much? I hope your horse kicks you in the ass in the aisle for that one, because you deserve it.
OT please write to them and let the know that Michael Vick is NOT a role model:
http://www.examiner.com/x-30576-Nashville-True-Crime-Examiner~y2010m3d8-Michael-Vick-called-A-community-role-model–wins-award
I wrote them an email:
It is just TOO soon for this “man†to have redeemed himself to the degree that you (or anyone else on the planet) should even consider giving him an award. Especially one that has the words “exemplary†or “courage†in the title or sub-title.
This man systematically fought AND killed dogs. Countless dogs. Innocent dogs. Dogs who were abused to make them fight.
This is pathetic and disgusting.
I guess it shouldn’t surprise me that the professional football industry is doing everything it can to (a) make people forget or (b) redeem their little golden boy.
You suck.
Sincerely,
Sharon McLeod
Ontario, Canada
I realize it’s not very ‘professionally written’, but when I think of Michael Vick, all I can think of are the words pathetic, disgust, and you suck. HE sucks the intelligence right out of my head.
I’ve just registered so I could comment on this. I’ve been enjoying reading the archives on Fugly horse for quite some time now (been laughing my ass off, thanks for that
All I can think when I watch this video is, what a nice, NICE horse, to put up with such lousy riding, bad treatment, and not only does he not dump the guy on the ground, he circles back around, jumps the little jump quietly and carefully, and then proceeds to jump the next obstacle like nothing had happened. Someone needs to buy this horse and have some fun on him/her. If I had that kind of money, I’d surely make an offer, because frankly, something that willing is definitely something I’d like to have in my barn.
In the UK affiliated jumping BSJA there is a set rule of three hits with your hand off the rein in the entire class (might be the whole day but I think per class) and you’re eliminated and usually called up to the judges box for a ticking off. I do some unaffiliated jumping judging and within the unaffiliated the rules are set by the judge/event organiser. I have to go off my guidelines from the yard owner on how much is too much and they are more leniant than the BSJA rules, but generally more than a couple of hits at once or majorily excessive will result in being called to the judges box over the tannoy – nice and public – and a major ticking off from me and my co-judge. I’m constantly amazed by how many people follow a refusal with show the horse the fence and thump it – gee thats going to make the horse want to go near that jump! It shows in the results as well – the horses which have the shit beat out of them for refusing constantly refuse, while the horses who are shown understanding generally will try much harder for the rider.
I also have to wonder what chance some kids have – there was one girl who had multiple refusals in a round (we will elimanate after 2 refusals but allow the round to be finished) and was using way to much stick, we called her up to the judges box with her mom (I think she’ll have been around 15 or so) and basically said that she was using too much stick and it wasn’t acceptable – her mom then proceded to have a go at us telling them off for this because, and I quote, they had ‘brought the horse to sort it out’ – I shudder to think what they do at home to that poor bugger.
HELP~
I’m sorry that this is off the topic of that tantrum throwing ass, but I need some advice. I upgraded a yearling miniature horse in December. He came to me full of lice and looking like crap and he is still very unthrifty. He has a face full of warts (all over his muzzle and the thin area of skin around his eyes) that he has had since I got him in December, little scabs all over his back under his fur, and he is losing his hair in patches and rubbing his tail. He is thin and has a worm belly. He was gelded and dusted for lice in December. I got him his spring shots in March and I gave him a Panacur power pack in March. He is eating Grow ‘n Win at the recommended rate and also Equi-shine once a day that was recommended by the vet. He just doesn’t seem to look any better and actually may even look a little worse. Can anyone recommend a wormer that won’t kill off too many worms at once? I think he may still be full of them and I don’t want to colic him with a mass die off of worms. Should I just re-do the Panacur power pack or is it too soon? Is there anything else anyone can suggest for a generally unthrifty boy? I’m worried I could lose him if something doesn’t change drastically.
Do a fecal count to see what you are dealing with in terms of worms!
Do that right away. However, I warn you – when they are really wormy really young, sometimes a lot of internal damage has been done.
Fugly, does that mean that he may be unhealthy his whole life or that he could die because of internal damage already done?
Either or both, unfortunately. It’s hard to say – I’m not looking at him AND I’m not a vet. I just want you to be aware of it. Friends of mine just lost a two year old – same thing, simply wouldn’t thrive no matter what and finally colicked. Too much parasite damage. This is why deworming is so important but try to hammer that through the head of your typical BYB…*sigh*
Yes, the damage can be permanent. My mother went to an auction where they were selling off a (well known) breeder’s herd b/c they were in the hole. I was 10 at the time. She went to see if she could buy me one of their show horses cheap. SO while she is there she sees a runty two year old (looked like a yearling) & it looked like he was going to the kill buyer.
Q: Guess which horse I ended up with???
A: NOT the one that carried someone to a world championship a few years later.
Anyway, the runt had been in the pasture since he was weaned, barely fed, never wormed & picked on in the herd. LOADED with every parasite known. He was a mess. Even after he was back on track with everything else, he would still colic frequently. Mom is a (non-horse) vet so we had a lot of careful feeding, management, etc. Over the years the time between episodes got longer, but he did have a few really close calls, one at the age of 20. Well, now that I am thinking about it I realize he has been good for a long time, ten years or so…he is out in the pasture, fat and happy at THIRTY TWO YEARS old. Little bugger.
So yes, the damage is permanent, and the risk is high, but that doesn’t mean the horse is a goner.
and…I am *still* mad at my mother for buying the runt. I could have been a contender…
Can someone post some links about parasite damage so I can investigate this further? My horse http://www.hoofprints.com/billy.html was so wormy when I got him – it took multiple purgings to get him clean. Soon as I took a breath – his fecal was clear – two months later he looked bad and tested positive for strongyles again (not a heavy load, though) He’s had diarrhea intermittently and is just not looking healthy. I finally put him on daily Strongid 2c in hopes that would help. He eats Senior-Glo, High Point Minerals with pro- and pre-biotics, timothy cubes & beet pulp soaked in water, pasture and free-choice grass hay (all in all – a virtual equine smorgasbord). Last summer (6 months after I got him) he looked great. My vet even scolded me for letting him get too fat. But this spring, in spite of my best efforts, he’s come through the winter looking really scruffy and poor. Any other ideas / suggestions?
I feel like I should have a phD in horse nutrition by now – my other horse is borderline IR (Insulin Resistant) and I have to micro-manage every morsel that goes into her mouth or she puffs up like a toad. I’ve tried all manner of contraptions to regulate her intake speed so she’s not standing around hungry all the time. Now I’ve got one that’s the exact opposite – I am stuffing him full and he’s NOT gaining weight!
Might be worth doing a post on this
I don’t know where you live, but have you tested his manure for sand? If he’s ingested a lot, he can’t pass it, and it can block absorption of nutrients, not mention some nasty colic. Regular treatment with Sand Clear can really help if that turns out to be an issue.
You might get your vet to do blood work. This can identify liver, kidney or other problems.
He needs more protein. Get him Equine Junior, it’s the best thing we’ve found. Some alfalfa would be good, too.
We’ve also noticed that if we buy a weanling that was weaned at 3-4 months, they develop a pot belly and it takes MONTHS to get rid of it. Our foals are weaned no early than 5 months old. Since we’ve been doing that our babies aren’t getting a pot belly at all. Your poor guy may be one of these. Congrats on rescuing him!
Sounds like he also has rain rot.
I think the horse was running through his leg early on to avoid the water and he should have corrected him earlier. Not defending the rider’s actions at all though. Beating a horse through any obstacle is a useless thing to do because it’s so detrimental to the horse causing either fear of the rider or resentment or both. This guy should try that with a mule and see if there aren’t repercussions for him at a later date. I don’t get it. I have a lazy TB who hates arena work and if I treated him like this he would retaliate. Judicious discipline gets him listening to my leg and forward. If I weren’t such a pansy, I’d get him out on the dirt roads for training where he is interested in actually going somewhere.
I am waiting for all of the responses from readers who insist that ALL bad horse behavior is from pain and how DARE you condone smacking Poopseykins for biting…….. *rolleyes*
I once audited a Jimmy Wofford clinic (years ago) and one of the only things I remember vividly was the girl was riding her huge WB who liked to refuse fences. Mr. Wofford told her to get more impulsion to the fence (in fact, GALLOP at it). Right before she got to the fence she used the crop, apparently to get him over. Mr. Wofford said, “Um… might I ask WHY you punished the horse for doing what he was SUPPOSED to do? Why on earth would you use the crop when he was going towards the fence like you asked?”
The clinic was HUGE with at least a hundred auditors, and the girl looked really embarrased. I hope that she remembers that for the rest of her life. Heck, I still remember it and it’s been a few years now. It impressed me.
I watched David O’Connor teach a group over 10 yrs ago and I will never forget seeing him take a whip away from a girl. This group had just entered the arena and David was standing at the rail talking to the audience about the level this group was doing and the goal for their lesson that day and so on and so forth. The riders were all sitting on their horses behind him listening. One girl’s horse kept doing something with his head, like shaking it or bobbing it or something, and every time the horse would do it she would pop him with the whip on the hindquarters. So David, still talking about the lesson, smoothly wandered toward her and when he got to her he paused from his lecture, asked “can I see your whip for a second?” so she gave it to him, and then he said “thanks” and continued with what he had been saying and casually wandered back to the rail. She did not get her whip back. We all thought it was a funny and classy way to make his point of what’s unacceptable treatment of your horse and what’s inappropriate use of a whip. Without literally saying it, he sent the message “if you’re going to choose to abuse the whip, then you don’t get to have it at all.”
OMG that is awesome.
Poor horse probably needed his teeth done or something. Head tossing isn’t something I think of as misbehavior – I think of it as the horse trying to say “my mouth hurts” or “your hands suck.”
What a complete asshat. Unless the horse had jumped sideways, there was no way he would have jumped that fence the way the rider first put him at it. And then the idiot started whaling on that poor horse as they started circling and continued to do so right over the jump? Nice work, you abusive prick! I was always taught that you use your whip for *discipline*, not punishment. Discipline is a controlled, constructive correction applied immediately when or after specific offense occurs. Punishment is you inappropriately losing your cool and control, and has no place in riding. This guy is a fine example of the latter.
If I pulled that crap on my TB, he would have tossed my ass over the horizon after whack #2. This guy should count himself undeservingly lucky that the horse didn’t ditch him or pitch a full on fit.
I use a dressage whip because my instructors tell me to. My leg aids are not strong enough (or “noticeable” enough) to get the message to the horse that he needs to move THIS way or do THAT thing. I guess it’s GOOD that my aids are not strong (I’m not nagging him), but the whip or crop is meant to be an extension of the leg aid, nothing more.
Sometimes if there is a disobedience it can be used as a subject-changer. Horses respect the sharp (meaning direct and to the point) reminder that there is a task they are being asked to do — and to do it NOW — and like anything else, reward at the end for doing the right thing. ALWAYS a winner.
The “applause dressage” gal choreographs freestyles and I’ve met her. She is very good at what she does, and she’s very direct in dealing with people and horses. I would not want to be on ANY list she puts on her Web site or in any article she writes about “those who do the wrong thing.” In fact, I’d pretty much just stay out of her way ;o)
“subject changer”
I LIKE THAT.
Fugly, thank you for linking to Karen Robinson’s blog… she is awesome, and not afraid to tell it like it is. Oh, and her freestyles are amazing!
He basically rode the horse into the standard…I had to watch the video twice to figure out what jump he was heading for in the first place. Just poor sportsmanship and totally unfair to the horse.
That’s what I thought. I thought, sheesh, did you expect him to jump the standard?
OT at this time, but not for the blog.
Here is an article from the Sacramento News and Review about the NorCAl Equine Rescue.
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/content?oid=1399635
The Joyful Jumper video was too cute. Love to see a happy horse loving what he is doing. That was one proud buck!
I don’t know if anyone else mentioned it, but he looked to be on the wrong lead before and during the refusal, as well as through his temper tantrum. Moron!
I could be wrong on that, though.
My husband’s horse goes light in the front when she doesn’t want to go some where, and also tries to back up a mile.. I carry either a light sprig/stick OR a crop with a big floppy bat on it.
I will tap her on the shoulder and urge her forward with my legs.
And with my mare, she would whip up her head and did hit me in the nose (breaking it) with her poll…
I tried with her pretty much everything, I tried tie downs, tapping her by her ears with my crop..
She also bobs her head UP and DOWN.. then shakes it side to side, mostly when she is bored..
SO when she starts, I do trail exercises and ask for her to go on the bit, and do all kinds of things to keep her from doing it.. SOmetimes I ignore it.
I did ride her with the ASB or Arab type running martingale that has rings but sits on the side of the neck.. she did much better with that…
And I found out saddle fit is a huge thing with her…
But I was always taught that a crop is to be used an an extension of your leg, an AID.. not what this ass hat did!!
He should be banned!!
Oh and yes I wear a helmet!!
If you watch only the horse’s legs, the horse went exactly where the rider aimed him. He didn’t duck away of his own accord. The camera angle does make it a little hard to see. I didn’t see any refusal,other than what the rider caused. Sometimes if your horses is bad they allow you to “do what you have to do” to get your horse over one schooling jump and then you are excused. I always thought that the crop was used to re-enforce your leg aids, or to give 1 or 2 good swats to their butt when needed- not to “beat your horse” over a fence. I am really surprised they gave him a score. Not a very good example to set to others, esp. kids.
Hi Fugly, I’m a longtime reader of yours, enjoy your rants! On this topic of abusive training techniques, I had a woman named Julie Goodnight ‘friend’ me on FB. Then I saw an article where she advocated the use of shock collars on horses …. the context was a horse beating up on other horses in the herd …. and I unfriended her. I was surprised at many who feel that using shock collars, at least in that context, is ok. Are you ok with that too? Because frankly, there are many other solutions to that sort of behavior, and I don’t think there’s ever a reason to use a shock collar on a horse (am not real fond of them with dogs, unless you’re really trained yourself in how to use them…).
I blogged about that and no, I am not ok with it. Just search Goodnight in the search box at the top right and you’ll find the entry!
Dear Micheal: I’m not a USET rider, and I’m certainly not doing the Prixs… but if you were one of my Up Downer lesson students, I’d rip you off my school pony and never let you step foot on the farm again. First off, aiming the horse at the standard is a sure way to get a refusal. Second, having a temper tantrum for all and sundry to see (and film) might work for Tiger Woods, but you just look like an ass. Certainly not something I like to see USET promoting.
Talk about a horse that can take a joke. Mine would have landed your rear end in the next county.
Parents, this is the kind of trainer you want your kids to have.
I’m quite serious. EventerTB is not going to turn out a bunch of spoiled little horse-abusers, that’s for damn sure.
I’m thinking Michael needs to go learn how to ride with EventerTB! I like her philosophy.
I’m also wishing that horse had dumped Michael’s sorry A$$ in the water.
Tiger Woods isn’t getting a pass for temper tantrums now either … he got a public scolding at the masters. Now maybe if he hadn’t gotten in so much hot water earlier, they wouldn’t have dared, but as it is, his club throwing and swearing is NOT going over well with the golf world.
So maybe the horse industry needs to get with it and publicly state how they feel about temper tantrums. A golf club isn’t sentient like a horse is …
The fact that golf clubs are inanimate objects was really the only reason that I differentiated between his temper tantrum and Mr. Morrisey’s. As one of my college trainers used to say if a rider isn’t willing to put the horses first, they need to “take up tennis”. I guess golf clubs work just as well, lol
P.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence Fugs. I appreciate it. Sadly, I haven’t taught in several months as my F/T job got in the way and my kids were ready to move on to my trainer (I’ll only take them to the short stirrup level… w/t/c and 18″ jumps). Hopefully I’ll get back to it someday soon.
All together now: “amen.”
I ride western and have rode with a crop on one horse. I did not smack him with it, or even give him a little pop. I sat the crop on his butt and drew a circle. His two issues were moving forward consistently and jumping 5 foot to the side when spooked. Drawing the circle made him move forward without any pain inflicted. The spooking was just not cureable for him. but I could feel when he was ready to spook and knew what made him spook. Talking to him helped but he was just not a trail horse.
I ride my share of green horses but have never had to use any harsh methods with them. My OTTB was ridden in a hackamore (not of the mechanical sort) when he first started going out on trails. He would get nervous and prance and I would just ride through it calmly, keeping contact on the reins but not pulling, until he realized he was the only one getting nervous. His new owner does competitive trail riding with him now.
We have one mare that we took in that had saddle seat training, which I knew nothing about. When she was fit enough to ride my father-in-law thought the training was a lie because she knew nothing, in western speaking. I had to do a little research to realize that she had different cues to do her thing. I would still call her green in the western world, but she’s a very light horse that is tons of fun to ride. Her biggest issue was that she was gated and it took awhile for her to balance herself with the western saddle when she was used to a light little english saddle. : D
My horse is extremely spooky – even after thousands of miles of riding im – what works best is for me to keep him on the bit slightly and to tip his nose away and give him some outside leg from anything he starts to “look” at. He’s almost cured on the trail – his spooks are generally just eyeballing stuff now, no more bolting!
I don’t yell (he’s very sensitive) or hit, just a look on the ground and a raised voice gets a scared face from him. I also feed him magnesium and extra B vitamins – sometimes severe spooking can be a result of not enough of something in his system. Check out Dr. Eleanor Kellon DVM on a google search and put in magnesium or spooky horse along with her name. She’s done some research and is who I got the information from. Spooking can be especially bad when horses get fresh spring grass. The new grass depletes their Mg levels and they need extra supplementation. You might notice your horse is more sendistive to touching him or to sounds.
One other thing….I read here he has an aversion to water jumps and has been “passed around.” C’mon! If he is that afraid of them then just STOP showing him in the GP! Hard to imagine they can’t find a suitable mount…but I know the logic with these people, “It’s not the horse, WE will be able to FIX him up.”
Hate to tell you, yes, sometimes it’s the horse, and it’s not fixable….not by you, not by anyone. Sad story fugly….
The worst thing I ever saw was the riding director of a prestigious school having a tantrum on a horse. Not sure if I should name him, so I’ll refer to him as Douchebag Trainer.
Douchebag Trainer was teaching a jumping lesson, and this poor old schoolie looked quite lame to me. Old schoolie was refusing fences, and not in a hissyfit way – more like a “I just can’t do this and I will peter out to a stop by the time we get to the fence” way.
So DT says he will get on the horse himself. He hops on and proceeds to beat the crap out of the horse’s flanks with the crop before he even pointed him at a fence. The horse gets worked up into a frenzy. He yanks the horse’s head around, and points him at a VERY nearby fence. They are only 2-3 canter strides away from the fence but horse does as asked, he launches into a canter, does the 2 or 3 strides and catapults over the fence.
As soon as they landed, DT yanks on the horse’s face SO HARD that the horse SAT DOWN. I couldn’t believe it. Why the hell did he punish the horse like that FOR DOING WHAT WAS ASKED? In response to the sit-down, he hit the horse on the top of the head. Then ensued a few more minutes of beating, yanking, and jumping.
He gets off and hands the horse back to the teenaged girl. Horse is sweating and shaking with fear. He did jump for her, too.
It wasn’t the first or last time I saw him abuse a horse, but it was the worst.
Oh but he looked SO COOL yee-hawing around like that!
If only they knew…most women look at those displays and think, gee, I’m sorry about your penis…
Oh, I think you should DEFINATELY name him!!
Well, yes, you really want to protect the identity of someone like that. After all, if you name him, he might have to suffer consequences. You don’t want that.
Does anyone know, doesn’t it state specifically somewhere in the USEF or FEI rules (or both) that more than three consecutive strikes with a whip or crop is cause for elimination?
I thought I just read it in the USEF rules not long ago…. I will try to find it….
Yeah, it’s in there. You’re right.
Fugs recently posted about how to sell a horse- or how NOT to sell a horse.
I am going to make similar suggestions how to sell your horse trailer.
I recently got a “new” trailer that was a prime example- a good trailer, structurally, but so poorly presented that it sat for 9 months despite reasonable pricing, with no takers, until I came along. It was so dirty inside the LQ I just opted to gut it and rebuild from scratch, rather than try to salvage anything- I couldn’t get past the filth, even after it was cleaned up (by me!). I got the trailer for about 1/2 it’s value (including the cost of re-doing the entire LQ myself) thanks mostly to the owners not bothering to clean the LQ up before trying to sell it.
1. CLEAN THE TRAILER!!! Wash the outside, scrub the horse area out thoroughly, and clean any tack area, dressing room, or LQ thoroughly. A trailer covered in mildew, with poop all over the walls and floor, and dead mice and bugs in the cupboards of the LQ, doesn’t sell well! If it smells like mouse pee, evict the mice and clean it up! Use some air freshener or something to kill the musty smell. Mildew on the LQ ceiling doesn’t do you any favors, either. Spend a couple hours doing a thorough cleaning and it will be much easier to sell. Keeping the a/c running for a day or two will get rid of the musty smell if it’s jut been sitting unused for a while. Try washing any linens/curtains, or using some febreeze. A bad or musty smell is a definite sale killer!
2. TAKE DECENT PICTUES!!! A single odd-angle snap of the outside of the trailer doesn’t do much to help me decide if it’s what I need. Take pics of the interior of the horse area, and of any LQ or dressing room. Take pics of any nice features like rear tack or swing-out saddle racks. Be able to send the pics via email on relatively short notice- don’t wait till you have a potential buyer to go clean it up and take your pics.
3. BE UPFRONT ABOUT DAMAGE! Take pics of any damage and be upfront about it to potential buyers- nothing is more of a sale killer than driving a long way to look at a trailer and discovering damage the seller didn’t disclose up front. Even if I deicde the damage is acceptable, it will lower my offer and my opinion of your honesty!
4. PLUG IT IN! If someone is coming to look at your trailer, have it plugged in with the heat or a/c running. Be prepared to demonstrate that any appliances, lights, etc, are in working order. I’m not interested in taking your word for it that the a/c works! Be prepared to hook up the trailer to a vehicle and demonstrate that the lights, electric brakes, etc, are in working order.
5. MAKE SIMPLE REPAIRS! How hard is it to use a can of touchup paint, or put some black duct tape on a torn area of padding? What about replacing that blown or broken tail light? If there are minor problems or blemishes that can be fixed easily, do it before the buyer comes. The trailer will present better and the potential buyer won’t feel like the trailer would create work!
6. PRICE IT REALISTICALLY! The horse trailer market is tough for sellers right now- it seems like everyone who is having a tough time, is selling (or trying to sell) their luxury items, including horses and trailers. It’s a buyer’s market, so you need to have realistic expectations of what your trailer is worth. Cleaning your trailer up and presenting it well will go a long way towards getting the price you want, but in this market, nobody with any sense is going to pay you as much as you paid for the trailer at the dealership 5 years ago!
Buyers like me, who are perfectly willing to buy a filthy trailer, gut and sanitize it, and completely re-wire, re-plumb, and re-build the LQ, are few and far between. If a buyer feels like that’s what they would have to do to be happy with your trailer, they will usually pass. Or, like me, only be willing to pay a fraction of the trailer’s potential value. By spending a few minutes to a few hours (depending on the condition of your trailer) cleaning it up and taking some decent pictures, you will sell it more quickly and for more money.
All very valid points – and aren’t you the lucky one for being able to see past the poor presentation
Congrats on your new trailer!
Goatlady: I have had minis for years, and the one thing I know for sure, if you have a skinny mini, you have a serious issue going on with him. Mine are air ferns and it is almost impossible to get any weight off them without complete starvation or tons of work.
I would get the Vet out again for a complete check on this little guy. He should be gaining weight no problem, and since December? I took care of a rescue mini drawf, 20 inches tall, came with lice and a BCS of 1. I wormed him (per the Vet) every two weeks (three times) and fed him grass hay, all he wanted, and a little oats. He did great and found a wonderful home.
If this guy hasn’t been improving long before now, he needs another Vet check.
I am also not clear why you would geld a horse that was not in good health to begin with. I would have waited until he was at least improving before putting him through being gelded.
While I do think that it was an excessive use of the whip and that perhaps the rider was anticipating a refusal before it actually happaned, I did not however see the horse react hardly at all to the whipping. Meaning that this is not the first time that this has happened, or that the horse is desensitized to it or whatever. I am not condoning what happened in the ring, but just saying that is is rare to see today, especially at the higher levels. It is my belief that if your going to take issue with excessive whipping, the racing industry needs to be looked at as well. There we have young hot horses who are always on the brink of breaking down so it seems, being asked for more than they can give by constant whipping in many cases. These horses are being broke at 18 months and are still developing as they are reaching top speeds on fast tracks. There has been lots of controversy and rules about whipping horses on the track to the kinds of whips they can use, how long, what their made up of etc… If I was going to start a stint on whipping, that is probably where I would start
I love that clip from Olympia – that horse knew he aced the combination.
Re. whips – in UK racing a jockey can ONLY hit a horse ten times in a race, they are not permitted to raise their arms above shoulder height to do so, and if they hit with “undue force and frequency” they will also fall foul of the stewards. These restrictions are enforced with fines and suspensions.
Would it be too much to hold “gentleman” showjumpers and eventers etc to the same rules?
Only slightly off topic,
but our equine affair in Columbus OH is going to have a blind horse competing. The article in the paper was pretty interesting.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/weekender/stories/2010/04/08/rider-taps-blind-mount-for-run-at-cowboy-title.html?sid=101
I think that is really awesome of her to keep using this horse like she always has. I do have split thoughts on the extreme race though. One part of me thinks it is awesome and the other part worries about the horse getting injured. There is a totally blind reining horse out there competing too with the difference being reining has a much more controlled environment. Either way, I wish her luck and think she is setting a very good example that just because a horse has a disability does not mean it should be euthanized.
This is an FEI event. Therefore, you can kill a horse by running it into the ground without punishment. Like in eventing, we have use the crop 3 times at one question behind the shoulder only. A total of 5 times on course. Then you get booted. But it doesn’t work like that at the FEI level. Sure, they have rules but they do NOT enforce anything.
Between this and the blue tongue incident, they are starting to get a bad rep…they’d better be careful.
The amount of money spent in FEI is a lot more than eventing, I believe, which seems consistent with no rules when big bucks are involved … people critcize eventing for the danger, but as a sport it seems very fairly run to me.
Obviously you missed the whole Laine Ashker/”Frodo Baggins” fiasco.
Spoiled rich girl gets Daddy to buy her the horse from the Lord of the Rings movies — yes, the very horse, a beautiful NZ TB … then kills him dead by flipping him over a fence. At Rolex. Snapped his neck, on camera, in front of everyone. She got busted up, but he died.
And it wasn’t the first horse she’d flipped, either. Girl did not have the chops to ride at that level — horse flipped because he was going too slow and was not lined up, entirely rider error, and he was trying to save her instead of just stopping and letting HER jump the jump without him — but she had the money, so everyone let her go.
I would absolutley love to put this guy on some of the school horses I have ridden. One of them, a big chestnut gelding, would send you flying the second you touched him with a crop. I can only imagine what would happen if you hit him hard 13 times…
Can’t watch the video at work, but sounds like a case of “win at ALL costs”, including the horse’s mental well being! I seriously HATE that attitude and wish he’s been dumped by the horse AND kicked off the course.
The other night I was soaking my gelding’s foot and lost my temper, hitting him with the soaking pan and then he “trained” me by being scared of the soaking event even more! Of course, I realized my mistake as soon as I lost my temper and hit him. He just further reinforced my mistake!
I found an article on Michael Morrissey from 2006 that just GUSHES about how much he loves this horse, Crelido, in particular: http://www.canadaequine.com/news/stories/1773/
Fugs – when was the video in question taken? What was the date of the show? I found another article from July 2008 referencing his, “overenthusiastic use of the whip producing palpable disapproval from the crowd.” Apparently this guy is a serial whip-abuser.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4402038.ece
I was trained by somebody who was like that.
I knew it was wrong, but when you’re a kid, your parents take the side of the trainer because they know no better, and you’re told ‘It’s this or give up riding’…
Beating a horse for refusal was common. I worked out on my own that if a horse refuses…first of all, ninety percent of the time, it’s rider error. Second of all, they’re much more likely to jump it on the second attempt if you just circle around and point them at it again like nothing happened. Especially if you KEEP doing it and don’t let them stop until they go over
.
Unfortunately, thanks to that bad trainer, I ended up giving up jumping for good.
These days, I only ride with a crop if I’m riding a horse that I know is either lazy/sour or VERY green. I use it as an extension of the leg if a horse will NOT go forward. I’ll use a dressage whip if I have a green horse with a case of wandering hindquarters, because it *clarifies* what I’m asking for when I use my leg to say ‘Straighten up’.
The other legitimate use of a crop is as a barrier to the horse’s movement, either to enforce personal space or to deal with something like ducking off the rail, but in that case, I’m not TOUCHING the horse with the crop. If I have a horse that likes to duck off the rail, I’ll carry a crop in the inside hand and angle the tip out a little to make sure the horse can see it. It’s amazing…90% of horses don’t duck off the rail if you do that. But then, my goal is always to not need a crop. I believe a whip should be *completely unnecessary* on a well trained horse that has no current issues and is working in the correct discipline for its build and temperament.
And I never hit a horse more than once per incident. The most time I hit a horse recently was the last time I rode Sierra (the ‘princess’ I’ve mentioned earlier) and she decided she was Not Going To Canter, and it took me ten minutes and multiple attempts to get a few strides out of her…and I think I probably popped her, as an extension of the leg, maybe half a dozen times, but that’s *really* unusual, and believe me, I think most people would have done the same thing…she was ignoring my leg aids completely.
Oooh hooo! If we were ever to use a stick in that manner we would be “grounded” for a month by our riding teacher, not to mention publicly humiliated in front of the other students.
I rarely ride with a whip, BUT one of the horses I ride will absolutely not budge unless you have one in your hand. This goes for longing and riding. You don’t have to use it, just have it. It’s very strange. I was at a clinic last fall where he behaved like a superstar. We were cooling out, so I dropped the whip, and didn’t he stop in the middle of the arena and refuse to move. The clinician brought me back my stick, and he moved off nicely without it so much as touching a hair. I must carry a whip when hacking him to make sure he doesn’t lie down on me, now that I know the signs, and even then, it’s a “Yo, I’m on to you dude – don’t try it!” tap on the bum.
I remember years ago I was going on a Prize Ride and tagged along with a group of riders that stabled their horses not far from where I lived. Now these horses were in stalls all the time with very little turn out other than when their owners came to ride. Of course their horses were full of energy and pranced jogged just about the entire 3 hour ride. I rode with them back to the facility and a few of them proceeded to continue to work their horses in the arena. Now these horses had been on a pretty long and somewhat challenging 3 hour ride already and to be forced to return back to the barn to continue cantering in the arena. I considered that abusive treatment by the owners. I cant remember now if I said anything to them or not I just remember being shocked by the fact that the riders were upset that their stall bound horses were full of piss and vinegar and wanted to go.
On one other occasion just last summer my husband and I witnessed abusive, idiotic behavior so bizzare we were speechless. Two women were having trouble getting a horse loaded into a 2 horse straight load trailer. Instead of just tying up the other horse the woman held the leadrope and a pitchfork on one side of the terrified horse and on the other side the owner smacked the back of its legs with a longe whip. This went on for several minutes and a good samaritan even tried to help. That horse was so worked up by the time it finally jumped into the trailer it was amazing it didnt flip itself over backwards when they closed the door. My husband and I placed bets what would happen first 1) somebody got kicked and/or hospitalized 2) the friends horse would get loose and be running wildly onto the busy road. I wouldnt have minded if one of those ladies would have gotten kicked, but it probably would have resulted in more unneccessary abuse for the horse.
A horse refusing to load can really bring out the worst in people. I saw pretty much the same thing once, only it was my mother’s little mare taking the business end of a whip. Some lady took it upon herself to “show her how it’s done” when she hesitated going in the trailer at horse camp (normally she is a good loader, she was in heat that day and just downright being a brat). I heard my mom yelling and saw some lady beating the crap out of the mare with a huge whip. Won’t get into the big long story but I will tell you it ended with a left hook and me narrowly dodging an assault charge. She learned what a good whack in the face can feel like that day.
Fugs, I tried emailing you. It was returned. How can I get a story and plea for help to you????
resqtb@yahoo.com ? It should work.
I live/work in Wellington and was there that night. It definitely didn’t go unnoticed by the crowd. The horse show is trying to attract a lot of non-horse people to come out (lowering ticket prices, making family-fun events etc.) and there was a lot of hissing that came over the crowd. It definitely wasn’t accepted by the general public, even if the judge didn’t excuse him from the ring.
And not that this excuses him at all, but a lot of horses were balking at the jump that night. I’m surprised he didn’t 100% prepare for it beforehand.
Couple of things you might want to try that worked for me. (One was a 27 yr starvation case, he lived to 38 and looked toi be about 18).
Worm for tapeworms. They don’t always show up in fecal samples and normal wormers won’t kill them. It may also take a few trys to clear them out as they can be reinfected from pastures.
Do get some blood drawn and a panel run by your vet. There may be a subclinical bacterial infection that he just hasn’t been healthy enough to fight off. The white cell count will show if there are problems with infection.
I have had good luck putting weight on with a mixture of probiotics, beet pulp, rice bran, senior feed (easier to digest), timothy hay pellets, and black oil sunflower seeds. This is fed along with forage mix and alfalfa. I add in a little sweet feed if they can handle it and some nonfat dry milk powder. (Dry milk has the most available source of Lysine you can find along with sulphur compounds for hair, skin, and hooves. Mine also love the taste and will eat everything it is on, up to and including bute powder).
I think I counted 12 strikes…… that sure is excessive.
Here’s a timeline of events in the Morrissey case that I think will help explain things more clearly, from someone who has been following this closely:
–Feb 27, incident in trial 2, no punishment, placed 35th in all results – the show’s, USEF’s, and FEI’s (these other results all come from the same original source, the show itself)
Officials’ authority over the results ends with the event itself, they can’t go back and change them after that point
–Mar 3 competed in trial 3, placed 22nd
then dropped out of trial 4 and 5 (as did others who weren’t in contention)
originally listed in both USEF and show committees results for this event, all is “normal” at this point, he’s placed in both events according to all sources, as if nothing ever happened on Feb 27
–Mar 17 Karen’s blog (the Canadian one I linked to), FEI “investigates”
–Mar 29/30 FEI comes back to her saying that (contrary to all evidence) he WAS DQed from trial 2 AND barred from further trials, but gives no specifics. We look and see he has NOW been listed as “DNP” in USEF’s results for trial 2. But…WHO DQed him? The officials couldn’t DQ him at that point, they have no authority. There has been no judicial hearing. Basically this is a “fake” DQ, not in accordance with the FEI’s own rules, to cover their ass and keep this quiet.
–Various people go check the results to verify he WAS barred from further trials as claimed by the USEF/FEI, and see that oops, he is magically deleted from the show committee’s trial 3 results, but remains in USEF’s official results, Chronicle coverage etc. So we know something’s really, really up.
–Karen writes to USEF saying he did in fact compete in trial 3, so WTH is going on
–USEF sends someone back to her saying it was just a “mistake,” they meant they took action against him AFTER trial 3, not before it. This would be OK, IF it really happened, because they have committees that have to make such decisions in a proper way, etc., that’s all OK…again, IF it actually happened, but we weren’t born yesterday because why would the show committee delete him from their trial 3 results if it really was a “mistake”? If it really happened, the USEF has a formal record of it, and there’s no need for any antics!
–Now Karen is waiting for USEF’s BS explanation of why the show committee just happened to make the same “mistake” as they did, and deleted him from their trial 3 results.
~~~~~~~~~~
Very, very interesting. Look, it’s not that hard to deal with this appropriately — you’ve got video, there’s no rumor mill involved here. This is obviously worthy of a suspension. Suspend him, send a message, and continue to look like the oh-so-much-classier show association.
Bastards! The FEI clearly doesn’t give a toad’s fart about horses or riding sports in general. But they were kind enough to put up this bullshit site about how they are against doping: http://www.feicleansport.org/
Just to make it look like they are cleaning up their act.
Ok, so doping is bad, but beating horses, blue tongue/LDR dressage, giving high scores to dressage riders who preform the test poorly. That is just fine and dandy, until people start bitching about it, then they have to pretend to do something about it.
Perhaps a new organization needs to be formed. One that actually cares about the welfare of the horses and the integrity of riding sports.
Typical. And thanks for trying to make sense of it!
Anyway, this sounds like a jurisdiction pissing contest. You see, if the infraction occurred at a regular USEF competition, not a selection trial, he probably would have been shitcanned immediately or almost. They don’t have a great track record either. Since the FEI is involved, it has to go up through the food chain and reviewed and bantered. Not a quick process. Also, they do not like punishing people.
As for eventing, if Amy Tryon pulled that shit of continually smacking her horse on course at a regular USEA sanctioned event, she would have been DR (Dangerous Riding) and probably be sanctioned. Instead, it took months and she lawyered up and only got a slap on the wrist.
And then there’s the sociopath known as Laine. This poses an interesting dilemma across all disciplines. So, you have some really nice horses that save your ass. And you can’t ride them and yet because they are such nice horses, you keep qualifying up the levels. And finally, you run your horse at a fence as you normally do (she does it ALL the time, even at the lowest levels), and you flip him. So, what’s the charge? In a regular USEA sanctioned event, we have now the DR (dangerous riding) rule with a possible suspension barring you from competitions. But it’s not enacted in the FEI. So if the competition is Rolex or Fair Hill, you can ride dangerously and get away with it. Sure, they say they have the yellow flagging and if you get one waved at you, it means ‘stop pulling your shit’ and a red flag, you get pulled off course but they don’t use it. Sure, they did at Burghley after the Laine issue but subsequently, I haven’t heard a thing.
WHAT AN IDIOT !!!! It was very clear that HE didn’t line the horse up properly (unless he was going to jump the standard)…and was embarrassed so he took it out on the poor horse….. JERK !!!! If I was there at the out gate I would have said as he was coming out “WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT” really loud. What an IDIOT … oh I already said that.
OH MY LORD !!! Those fences are huge and that horse made them all look easy !!! Phew I was holding my breath watching him !!!
Morrissey disgusts me… The second video though, is adorable. Truly a good example of horse who loves what he is doing and does it well!
I totaly agree with you Fugly!
While we’re on the topic, even the *good* race trainers/jockeys/owners more often than not beat their horses down the home stretch. I know you’re pro “the good side of racing” but overuse of the whip is an epidemic. There was a statistical study (I read about it in Horse and Hound but I can’t find a link now) that found using the whip does NOT improve perfromance. Also, candid interviews with jockeys revealed that many of them whipped horses they knew were at max capacity and were totaly out of the money because they were worried betters/trainers/owners might suspect them of throwing the race.
The guy attempting to jump that horse pisses me off. I cannot stand when people think hitting a horse in that manner or at all will ever accomplish anything. Sure some horses need discipline but it should never be in the form of punishment. His first attempt at the jump didnt even look like he tried to make the horse jump, extra reason for him to not beat the poor thing. lol. These hunter jumpers punish their horses for being non responsive when they have only taught the horses to be dull to nearly every command and cue.
Wow, this is why I love the internet, for learning and also for outing those ‘experts’ and ‘professional’ horse riders out there that need outing, good one!
It is stagging to think that he got away with the mistreatment of the horse, but he knows people in high places obviously! But at least WE know he he THINKS he got away with, thank you! There is no room for behaviour like that, in or out of the ring, it is just poor bad sportsmanship and they should start to consider, nearly everyone has a camera/video recorder and they too many feature on fluglyblog.com
Eventing Nation picked this up from The Carrot:
http://horseslovecarrotsandbute.blogspot.com/
The Carrot’s tone sounds much like our Fug’s
You all might be interested to know that BOTH the FEI and the USEF are pressing charges against Morrissey, and they will even have a look at what the ground jury did (or didn’t). Bravo!
FEI PRESS RELEASE
Lausanne, 13 April 2010
FEI AND USEF BOTH INITIATE CHARGES IN ABUSE CASE
The FEI and the United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) have both initiated charges under their respective rules against Michael Morrissey (USA), following an incident in class 101 at the Wellington CSI 2* held on 27 February 2010. The FEI will also be investigating the role of the Ground Jury in this incident.
Given the fact that both the International and National Federations will issue charges for the same set of factual circumstances, the FEI and the USEF will coordinate their existing regulatory procedures to ensure a fair process for the rider and seek the right outcome for the equestrian community.
Media Contact:
Malina Gueorguiev
FEI Press Manager
malina.gueorguiev@fei.org
+ 41 78 750 61 42
Joannie Morris
USEF Director of Communications
jmorris@usef.org
+ 1 859 225 2052
EXCELLENT NEWS! Thank you so much for sharing that!
You are most welcome. I am on the FEI mailinglist, and I will post any future announcements I get from them about this as well. If someone doesn’t beat me to it.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/296909.html are carrying the story in the UK.
Good!
Yay– glad he was charged..that makes me feel better.
What the hell is s/he doing??? I agree 100% that is incredibly stupid abusive behaviour, TOTALLY ineffective as training and mind boggling to watch. Disgusting display of a bad temper- person should not be in charge of anyone or anything that breathes.
Heck. I’m now riding a horse who gets pissy and surly. He stops it if you carry a whip.
So, guess what? I’m not carrying one. Because I don’t want him to behave because he’s afraid I’m going to hit him. I want him to behave *whatever*. That’s our goal. For him to drop the teenager-asked-to-clean-his-room attitude because he wants his rider to be happy, not because he doesn’t want to get popped with a whip.
I had a mare about 20 years ago who was so soured from spurs that I couldn’t use any leg AT ALL for the first 90 days or so.
She came around. We just went off voice commands ’til she did. Cluck to trot, kiss to canter. She figured out I was going to be nice to her and turned into a very nice open show horse.
One pony, she took off with people because she was scared…and the old school previous owner only had one answer to that. Curb bit.
I rode her for three months with no use of the reins. NONE. No contact, stopping on the seat, until she was ready to accept contact again. In a snaffle, needless to say.
If Morrissey had presented the horse properly there would have been no problem but you can’t punish a horse for rider error. If that is how he behaves in front of thousands how does he behave at his stables when there is nobody watching?
http://www.offyoutrot.co.uk/blog/michael-morrissey-charged-abusing-horse/
I agree with ruling out paint and fear before administering punishment, and when punishment is administered it must be swift and just. Horses understand cause and effect very well. This is where quite a few fears become founded and quite a few good habits are started.
My arabX was stubborn mostly, but I think he was partially blind looking in hindsight. He would get spooky and hoppy near shadowy things and would need to be able to check the thing out to be sure it wasn’t a shadow beast come to snack on his flesh. But he would also pull bucks when I would ask him to move forward at something faster than a feet-dragging walk, this was because a buck or a rear used to get him out of working. some of his fits may have been from my saddle, too, though. I discovered a hot spot on his back just under my seat once and stopped using my saddle on him. He behaved while bareback, so I discontinued the use of that saddle on him for all further in-saddle training sessions.
Mikey, mate I dare you to come try that on with my mare. I promise that you will be on the ground before the second smack of the whip. Dare you. I’m not too worried that you’ll upset my pony, you’ll definately come off worse than her, especially if you are as obviously under as you are in that clip. I cannot believe that you even made it out of novice jumpin with that kind of horrid riding.