Breeding Trainwreck Du Jour!
Apr 07 2010
Everybody got your Breeding Trainwreck Checklist ready?
Fantasy-related farm name:Â CHECK! “Paradise Flats”
Hairy rare breed of horse: CHECK! Shagya Arabians. Here is the breed’s website to learn more about them. They are actually pretty cool horses.
Multiple stallions:Â CHECK! Four of ‘em
Issues with Having A Real Job:Â CHECK! Nancy Skakel, the Breeder Failure of the Day, left Illinois after she defaulted on her educational loan and lost her nursing license.
Issues with Actually Caring For Horses:Â CHECK! Reported one missing in 2005 after “not seeing it for several days”...wtf … seriously who the HELL are these people who do not look at every horse every day?
Issues with Paying The Mortgage (And Multiple Court Judgments) Before Making More Horses:Â CHECK! Just search “Nancy Skakel” in the Washington State Court Records.
Issues with Paying Other Necessities (Like Car Insurance) Before Making More Horses:Â CHECK!
The farm’s address also comes back to a Huntingdon Investment Co., which is an Oregon corporation that currently has a service address in Florence, a long way from White Salmon. Wonder what that was about and if it contributes to the train-wreckage here?
They’re free for the taking – sounds like the Sheriff got her to surrender them and he wants to auction them April 16th if they don’t have homes, so please do go and get them if you have space. As you can see, we have some old pictures and some that are probably recent. They’re not starving yet but I’d assume “not up to date on anything” is a safe bet. OF COURSE four of the mares are bred…’cause when you’re in foreclosure, you should TOTALLY make more horses! Why ever not? *head explodes* Poor ponies, the place looks like a pit. 
Download a PDF of pictures and details
Anyway, I will say she did one thing right – most are BROKE or at least have had their groundwork. Hoo-fucking-ray! For once. So if you would like a nice BROKE Shagya Arabian, contact this person who is helping them find homes (serious inquiries only, please, don’t annoy the poor woman if you’re not serious about it):
Nancy Carlson at nancyjane@hrecn.net
If you’re local and you know more about what happened here, of course I’d love to hear the tale. She sounds like someone who hid it well as she was pretty much a major player and an authority in the Shagya world as recently as last year.
121 comments to “Breeding Trainwreck Du Jour!”
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Awww, come on! She’s missing a vital element to being a “breeding trainwreak”!! Where’s the crappy website complete with spelling mistakes, unicorns and rainbows????
The web site poofed in 2009 and archive.org isn’t giving me much to go on – she had a “splash” page which is all that was archived. I doubt she had spelling mistakes though – she seems quite literate, from her many articles written on the breed. It’s a shame she didn’t use her intelligence to, you know, get a job and support her horses and, BTW, STOP MAKING MORE when she knew she was in trouble.
I know a lot about this one unfortunately, she is directly involved with the byb that produced the famous pinto Arabian who you have talked about here……..e-mail me I can fill you in, it’s a tangled mess and has been for a long time……this one hits very close to home.
PS: I hope everyone got that I was being sarcastic on my note… not every BYB has a crappy website. It just seems a lot of them do.
Boy, you weren’t kidding about them living in a pit hole. Poor things. A couple look kinda nice, but the rest sure aren’t anything I’d consider breeding stock. She probably spent every dime that came thru her finger on their support, until the money ran out. And, when it’s all said and done, and the dust settles, she won’t be one dime ahead for all the years of her work. Maintaining and breeding that many “average to fugly looking” horse, probably with little help, is a lose lose situation eventually for anyone ( esp. the horses ) – esp. for a middle aged ladies with big dreams and little money. We have an Arab farm near me with 300 horses, every on show condition, perfectly groomed and kept. BUT, the owners have a big company with can afford that many and they have a staff and trainers to do the work that is required to make their horses marketable. No way can a backyarder, with falling down fences, mud up tor knees, and skinny horses how to compete with those with the funds to do everything right. A good small breeder can produce a few nice ones,but when you start to get to many, they quickly get in over their heads. Love, hopes and dreams are not a replacement for money, time,effort, a good business sense, horse skills, AND QUALITY breeding stock.
Do you live in WA? If so I think we might live by the same farm…
Searching lovely craigslist today, I found another fugly train wreck: A rare transvestite colt!
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/1680512108.html
Their heading says she? is a female colt for sale! Just looks like another BYB’s sorrel accidental creation.
In a rather bizarre twist “Sound Equine Options” which was founded by/is being run by PRO SLAUGHTER veterinarians is soliciting donations via e-mail blast for the Shagya herd that is today’s subject.
If you read all of the Sound Equine Options website you will see much pro-slaughter propaganda. In an episode of questionable ethics, SEO’s initial fundraising e-mail blast “launch” co-opted at least one e-mail list from a legitimate rescue and immediately solicited money for SEO’s cause which SEO took pains to make appear “humane” (note they appear to be committed to the idea that slaughter is humane) and when the co-opted rescue found out what SEO was really all about immediately posted a disclaimer on the rescue’s own website.
SEO appeared also to be using the e-mail contact list for the Oregon Horse Welfare Council which has not responded to inquiries about such an “alliance.”
I want to know just exactly how SEO plans to actually spend the money tollected from this new e-mail blast allegedly recruiting dollars to help the Skakel herd. Though the SEO “mission” supposedly included “euthanasia clinics for unwanted horses” yet their website was soundly pro-slaughter, I wonder what SEO intends to actually do with this Shagya project if some/all of the horses don’t get adopted and get run through Sheriff’s auction, where you can absolutely count on kill buyers attending.
Skakel used to run Lipizzan crosses and Arabs through her little wannabe farm. Long history there. I recall her being a problem waaaaaay back when I still lived in Washington and was active in rescue work long before there were any laws (esp. in Washington) to support rescue work.
I think it’s important to stop labelling groups “pro slaughter” because they say things like “unwanted horses”
Not every group (even those who do think slaughter should come back in the US, or who don’t want an outright ban) are out to kill horses. They are often horse lovers and welfare advocates first and foremost. The slaughter issue is often a tiny tiny portion of the overall picture, and they are not generally people who think it’s a good thing or something to “promote”
I think by painting everyone who says certain key phrases (like “unwanted horses” apparently) as “pro slaughter,” anti-slaughter advocates are really cutting off valuable resources.
Put aside the issue of the ban for a moment and see what these people DO and what they FUND. They fund humane euthanasia clinics. They provide a feed fund. They help area rescues who are low on resources. Even if they think slaughter is something viable, they are doing a service. By branding them the devil and screaming that they are “pro slaughter” it really prevents groups from forming alliances towards their goals that are COMMON.
I think maybe if we all spent more time finding the common ground and working towards the things we ALL view as important (responsible ownership, responsible breeding, affordable euthanasia), we’d find that people on both “sides” agree on a lot more than they disagree on. I don’t think SEO is operating some “front” to look good while secretly working to kill all the horses (a “hidden agenda”). I think they are putting their money where their mouth is and trying to help. Because maybe they don’t think a federal ban is the best thing does not mean they don’t have horse welfare as their primary motive.
What kills me is that pointing this out has in the past gotten ME branded as “pro slaughter” even though I spend an unbelievable amount of time (and often money, and gas, and phone minutes, and physical labor) every day trying to make sure that horses DON’T go to that end. I just think when anti-slaughter activists start screeching about groups being “pro slaughter” because they don’t go along with every anti-slaughter talking point (or dare to say the phrase “unwanted horses”), they’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So Tom Lenz visited some horse slaughterhouses and thought they weren’t the horrific halls of carnage they had been made out to be. That doesn’t make him the devil, and doesn’t mean he isn’t concerned about welfare issues, and certainly doesn’t mean he thinks it’s a “good” thing.
There are a lot of people out there who are neutral in this debate, or who don’t share the same beliefs about it. Maybe they’re wrong, or misinformed, or stubborn. However the vast majority of them really care first and foremost about horse welfare.
I am sure someone will say that I’m pro-slaughter now. In the past I’ve used the phrase “unwanted horse” so maybe it’s true, and I secretly have some hidden agenda I don’t know about, and all the work I do trying to keep horses OUT of the slaughter pipeline really means nothing.
(sorry, I just get a little heated about this. If we really want to find workable solutions, and build good networks, to keep horses safe and well cared for, it requires active participation from EVERYONE whose priority is horse welfare.)
I totally agree. Get a grip, y’all. Just because some of us believe that HUMANE slaughter is not a terrible end to a horse’s life doesn’t make us evil.
Ruthie, irked
I agree with you Horrorfied.
I agree, horrorfied. I am anti-slaughter as it stands (and stood, before the IL and TX plants shut down) because I do not think it is or was a HUMANE process. THere is nothing humane about the method of transport and the captive bolt. If we had knackers like they have in England, I don’t think there would be much argument.
I can’t even imagine how anyone could think that a vet-administered euthanization – pink juice and all – is inhumane.
Perhaps people who hold this view haven’t had pets/horses? I’ve held two horses now for the process (and my dog) and it is a remarkably peaceful process.
At any rate – I agree. Semantics aside – if this group is working to KEEP horses from entering the slaughter pipeline – they are working on the good side.
Hosting free euthanasia clinics doesn’t seem overly pro-slaughter to me. Those horses are being humanely diverted away from going to slaughter. I can’t imagine it really taking off (the first of these clinics only had 6 participants), but it sounds like a great idea. They even have a team of people to help decide whether the horses should be sent to a rescue or if they are candidates for euthanasia. I really wish more groups were set up that hosted events like this. As a vet tech, I’d be happy to volunteer, unfortunately I am not in the PNW.
ETA: Wow, I read more of the website and it looks like a fantastic organization. They have people who inspect foster homes, and once approved, offer them access to a centralized adoption database and free exams. This organization seems to be doing a lot of good things.
I already got my freebie
otherwise I’d go grab one. Some are pretty cute
Fugly, I am begging you to take this down for right now. Local people are working on this and this is absolutely jeapordizing the rescue already taking place. She will absolutely refuse to work with us if you leave this up. 21 are already placed in knowledgable GOOD homes. Whether we will be able to pick them up now is up to you and everyone else contacting her in attacking way. Please stop for the horses sake! Everyone! You are not helping in this instance. Wait until we get them out PLEASE! Excuse my spelling but please take this down for now. There is a story here but it needs to be silent for now.
I was sent it by 10 different people begging me to cross-post it. Actually, when I went to my e-mail, I realized I got sent a plea to take these horses for free last September that I missed. I don’t take things down without a REASON and “needs to be silent for now” does not ever cut it. Besides, it is already cross-posted all over hell and creation, my taking it down won’t make it disappear.
Edited to add that it was 12 not 21 but will be zero if this keeps up.
Haha, BYB damage control much?
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/grd/1672943218.html This is not a breeder train wreck but a horse that is in need of not becoming one!
Considering all the dogs and kittens killed each day in this country it is no wonder horses have become victims of the “money’s just going to come rolling in”, Yeah Right !
Wow, at a cursory glance, pretty horse.
I’m sure a Krazy Kolor Breeder will pick him up right away!
This horse is being offered for free now. A person who knows him said he is nice to handle, and would make a fabulous riding GELDING.
I can normally make up easy excuses for not upgrading Craigslist listings posted here – but Baltimore is right up the road from me, I think this guy is totally cute, and I have a fabulous trainer who is not doign much right now. Uh oh. I need another horse even less than I need another dog.
Another day, another breeder that shouldn’t. At least some deserving people might get some nice rescues out of it, if that can even be considered a positive.
My.Head.Almost.Exploded. last week when this nice, normal, rational, sane (or so I thought) girl I work with said she is going to buy a small farm and start breeding minis. She is a pastry chef. Admits she has never seen a horse up close or set foot on a farm. I think I scared her with my crazy rant, she hasn’t talked to me since.
I would totally take Vienta de Paradiso, however I would not know how to get her to southern California. Last time I priced horse transport it was very expensive just to move a horse from mid state. It is good to see that they were helped in time.
I actually got a quote not long ago for only $400! You might want to check again.
Wow, thats what I was quoted to move a horse from Visalia to Newhall Ca. Just a 3 hour drive. If you have a name I will look into it.
Maybe you could check into the larger companies that run on fixed schedules – I use one of them, and to ship a horse from Colorado to Virginia was about $1,000. They are probably cheaper than ’boutique’ shippers.
I have a friend who will be in the area in two weeks. She will have a horse trailer and can bring horses back to the Bay Area, so then you would only have to arrange travel from the Bay Area to SoCal!
Thanks jenm! I can see what I can do to get her from the bay to s. cal. In the meantime I emailed if the horse is still available. If she is then I will start setting this up.
Check out http://www.travelinghorse.com You can get estimates from multiple reliable companies. I received a quote recently to move a horse from CA to TX for $700. The website owner will remove transport companies from her list if she gets too much negative feedback on them.
By the way SEO’s flier is NOT helping the fate of the horses.
Re SEO sorry to broken-record this problem BUT SEO is tight with Dr Tom Lenz who is the mover and shaker behind the “unwanted horse coalition” (pro-slaughter) and they are also tight with NorCal which is a sometimes discredited/somewhat questionable rescue itself. But the most telling thing is they are really tight with Ron Mariotti. Fugly, I don’t have to remind YOU who HE is. People – BEWARE of SEO and look BEFORE you leap. This organization may not be what it shows its outside to be. Ask John Holland too. Look at the amount of pro-slaughter propaganda on their website – read their whole website before donating. Just educate yourself before donating.
Very, very, VERY interesting information.
Who is the vet behind SEO?
ETA: Just realized it is Scott Hansen, who I have used as a vet and like very much. However, I have never quizzed him about his slaughter beliefs.
Whatever his personal beliefs, regarding SEO if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s prob’ly a fricking DUCK and I’m not talking about their college football preferences here. Fugly you have a strong legal background so you might want to go thorougly read the SEO website because it appears not only to me but to a lot of others who are anti-slaughter that SEO has a public face and hidden agenda. Stating my opinion based on my own strong legal background.
I will for sure when I have more time. And I’d like to straight-up ask them.
Good luck. They not only will not answer any direct questions but will tell you flat out that if you are “looking for a fight, go somewhere else.” Seems to me that any legitimate horse welfare group would honestly and carefully attempt to answer any non-confrontational questions and not throw up a mask of righteousness with no explanation offered.
Thanks for posting these horses (after SAFE shut the thread down). Seems like they need help before any more of them go missing…
Where are they located? Are they in Oregon?
White Salmon, Washington
I am local and this whole thing was so confusing. I was preparing to take one in to foster and was then told that the owner had withdrawn the surrender of her animals. I was told by someone that the photos I was sent by SEO was inaccurate but how can photos date-stamped two days ago be inaccurate? Some animals look fine, just dirty and kind of ratty from starting to shed, but others are definitely thin.
This is so so sad – if you want more information on Shagyasa, and to see photos of what a good breeding program looks like, check out the gallery links for the Babolna Stud in Hungary . I don’t know if the farm is still open – government BS and all, but in its heyday, they made some beutiful horses. I actually had the pleasure of riding a Shagya on a trek around Lake Balaton when I was visiting relatives -truly amazing horses. Basically all the benefits of an Arab without the hypersnsitivity…
0 likes
http://www.babolnamenes.hu/eng/index.html- – crud – I messed up the html… sorry
I usually respect what you write Fugly and am glad that you are there to expose things. However in this situation your post along with everyone else calling her and emailing her is Not helping. This was going very smoothly and now all the publicity is freaking her out and she may not let them go. You have stories that you hold back on until the horses are out and safe, you’ve posted about them before. This is one of those cases. Yes there is a bad story here, yes on many things that I am sure you can guess on. Not arguing that with you. Just begging EVERYONE that is not directly involved in the rescue to shut up for the sake of the horses getting out of there until they are all of the property. I almost contacted you myself about this but recognized it was more important to get the horses OUT of there first. PLEASE EVERYONE IF YOU WANT TO HELP THEM PLEASE STOP! If these horses all go to auction now, instead of bypassing that and getting into appropriate homes, can thank yourselves for that! The people lined up for these horses are quality knowledgable horse people, not joe blow looking for a free or cheap auction horse to yahoo around on.
No one is emailing Nancy SKAKEL. The e-mail is to the person who said she was trying to place the horses. Different Nancy.
And like I say, it’s already all over the net, the cat was out of the bag for 2 days before I posted. If you don’t want me to post about something, and there is a legitimate reason to hold back, you should have filled me in before – instead, 100% of my mail begged me to post this. So now it’s up. I don’t take things down once they’re up.
By the way this situation has been being watched for years. People have been trying to get horses out of there for along time. Nothing could be done until NOW. You know how the law works if anyone does.
I just got an email back from Nancy saying that all the horses had “wonderful new homes”
Big clue there is a problem….can’t fix the fence so we will use pallets.
A long time ago there was a girl I put on this blog whose entire farm was Pallet Acres. Her round pen was pallets. Her fencing was pallets. It was just painful to look at and such a hazard to her horses.
I KNOW the Nancy’s are different. I live here. I did not see this coming all over the internet or I would have asked you not to post it yet.. instead I was trying to get horses out! I guess I did not figure on the bad judgment of others , not sure why I didn’t think of that. Maybe being involved in rescue for along time I know that it is easier to get animals out if you are not hating on the people and in the same breathe asking if you can take ,their animals. And people ARE contacting the owner. I am not saying anymore about this right now as I am just terribly distressed that all of the work that went into having a good relationship to get them out will be blown. Thanks for the good intentions people but not for the bad execution, potentially ruining what was a smooth running rescue.
Concerned,
I’ve been involved in dog rescue, and I can’t imagine why you think bad publicity would make somebody LESS likely to correct the situation. If this woman has been told to get rid of the horses by the sherrif, how could she legally refuse to do so? She has been told to get rid of them (from what I understand) and is getting rid of them. What does publicity–negative or otherwise–have to do with anything?
Are you saying that if people nationwide become aware that she has no money, a crappy facility, and thin horses… this will make her suddenly want to KEEP them? How? Now that everybody is aware of the situation, she certainly won’t be able to continue breeding and selling them.
Just sayin…
I’ve had a little experience meself, rescuing coonhounds. Back then, hunters who lost a dog did not look in shelters. One reason was the anti-hunting attitudes. Yes, attacking people can make them refuse to cooperate with the attackers.
I’m not taking sides on this particular mess, though. Completely different situation, for one thing.
I wish AC didn’t take so long to act – but they have to gather evidence that can stand up in court, before they get a seizure warrant. And we all know how insufficient some of the laws are, and how ignorant some of the officers, and most of the judges, are.
Ruthie
Concerned,
Is your name Nancy, too, by any chance?
I am just wondering because like some other people I do not seem to understand the problem in creating bad publicity if she has been ordered to get rid of the horses…
Are you saying you are trying to get her to surrender them?
Also, fugly, why exactly is she on here? Are they being seized according to your information or what? Or is she just being foreclosed and they are selling them off on her for money? *slightly confused*
The information I got yesterday was that she had surrendered them and they were up for grabs. I don’t know what the current situation is because all of a sudden, no one is talking.
If you are going to be involved in a rescue be prepared….it will not be a secret. Especially a large scale rescue. If you think for one minute you will avoid the news covering it, or comments on the interned you are dreaming!
Someone will let the cat out of the bag and that is just the way it is. Its up to the people doing the rescue to prepare everyone involved that there is a possibility of it hitting the air waves and EVERYONE finding out.
The other option?? Take care of your animals so you don’t end up a story on the news, internet or FHOTD.
This was so shocking to me — I know Nancy Skakel. I haven’t talked to her in probably five years now, but she’s no stranger.
Before you bash her, I understand she had fallen onto hard times — in the past, she was a legitimate breeder with a good knowledge of bloodlines, and one of the founding members and breeders of Shagyas in this country. She had some excellent stallions and mares, and was friends with many Hungarians who advised her on her breeding program. I never saw her abuse/starve a horse in the past. She always cared greatly for her horses.
The Shagya is a rare breed in this country — it’s not romantic or silly, they are nice horses. They were developed in the Austro-Hungarian empire as calvary horses and make excellent sporthorses. They have a strict registry and inspection policy with breeders that really care about their horses.
I am astounded that it came to this with Nancy — the Shagya community is really close knit, and I would have thought she would have dispersed long before it became a media event. I am horrified that these horses are being given away in this fashion. Guess it’s all fun until it’s someone you know that turns out to be featured on fugly … wow.
Ugh. Well I hope the folks that get this group of horses appreciate them.
I agree that she’s knowledgeable and intelligent. The many articles she wrote about the breed prove that. It is always more surprising to me when someone like this doesn’t see the writing on the wall early enough to disperse quietly, and especially given that the horses were mostly broke horses who should have been able to find homes.
However, there is a history of financial problems here, as shown clearly in the court records. The financial problems were not just in the last year or so.
I wish I could see the sales list — Google won’t let me see it.
Oops I guess there is a bandwidth limit. Let me see if I can move it elsewhere.
me either.
You said in an earlier post that you “got sent a plea to take these horses for free last September†that you missed. I assume the e-mail was from the owner. No one else could legally give them away. I don’t supposed she was expecting you to take them all personally, so I do suppose that she wanted your assistance in finding other homes for the horses. I wouldn’t expect the Fugly blog to be a breeder’s first choice of places to rehome her horses, unless she was too embarrassed to tell the Shagya community that she needed help and didn’t think any of them read the Fugly blog. Perhaps that was an attempt to disperse quietly. That was six months ago. I would be interested in knowing what other efforts she made to find homes for the horses.
It appears that there have been a group (Google wouldn’t let me see the list) of decently bred horses with some training that no one has wanted (and could afford) for half a year or better. They only became wanted when they had been turned over to the Sheriff and were scheduled for auction. Call this whatever you want, I think it is a problem. I absolutely do not think that slaughter is part of the solution, but the horse community is going to have to figure out what is.
I don’t get the SEO bashing — and I know and adore Scott Hansen. He is a fantastic vet and a compassionate individual. Is the euthanasia clinic somehow being seen as horse slaughter?
I like Scott too – I haven’t had time to read the SEO site but I will say that the pro-slaughter term “unwanted horses” jumped out at me. Still, I don’t want to read too much into that until I read the whole thing.
I am 100% pro-euthanasia clinics, of course!
Not the only example of its type at this time. I think it is important to ask whether the organization will be involved in advocacy/lobbying/supporting pro-slaughter legislation (regardless of individual veterinarians’ personal beliefs). Potential donors (I’m assuming this is a 501 C 3 or is in line to become one) are aware of what they are supporting. If you fail to get a direct answer to your inquiry that should tell you something. I’ll PM you on this later.
Crap. I hate it when a useful phrase becomes a “signal” for something. Do we have a problem with unwanted horses? YES. What the hell else are we supposed to call them?
We may want them to be wanted, but we all know they can’t all find good homes. I suppose that makes me “pro-slaughter.” Get a grip! I am anti-INHUMANE-slaughter. I would happily shut down the trucks to Mexico and Canada. Slaughter as it now exists is inhumane, and I don’t support it.
But if, when the time comes for one of my horses to die, I would not have a problem with a butcher coming here, humanely killing her, and giving the butchered carcass to our local Big Cat rescue. If that can’t be arranged, then the vet comes with the big needle.
Ruthie
I totally agree with you which is why I don’t usually read this blog. I just popped over here today to see what Fugly was saying about these horses since I knew they would be featured. Anyone who thinks there is no such thing as an unwanted horse has their head in the sand, and I have read the SEO website (and have been following their efforts since long before this particular case) and don’t see the skeery pro-slaughter propaganda.
I’m kind of in the middle. I think there is a horse SURPLUS and particularly a surplus of poorly trained horses.
I don’t think slaughter is acceptable at all though. I think we ARE going to have to be realistic about having to do quite a bit of euthanasia to bring the supply back in line with the demand.
Great point, StPetersGal. Thanks
No one is bashing SEO or Scott Hansen. What I SAID was read the whole website and make up your own mind before you donate. No one is saying that euthanasia clinics are a bad idea. Dr. Hansen’s personality or his capability as an equine veterinarian are not the issues, either.
What I AM saying is that there is a LOT of pro-slaughter propaganda on that website which is content-heavy on the pro-slaughter arguments.
If SEO is fundraising for this situation I repeat – educate yourself by reading the entire website before making up your mind.
What part of EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE DONATING is incomprehensible? Seems like good common sense to me. It is called READING WITH COMPREHENSION AND EVALUATION. Basic skill for anyone who made it past eighth grade. Hopefully.
So the phrase “unwanted horse” or “full rescue” is secret pro slaughter code? Because I don’t see anything on that website about slaughter at all.
I know a lot of people believe this, but I know a lot of people who say those things and are full aboard on the antislaughter wagon. Sometimes it’s just the truth – I think it’s not a good thing that anti-slaughter activisists have made it so if you even say “unwanted” you are branded some kind of pro-slaughter conspiracist. What are all those horses being sent to auction, if not unwanted by their current owners? What about the horses languishing in kill pens, or at rescues (having not been adopted for years?)? In my book they are unwanted. That doesn’t mean they will always be unwanted, it just means they are unwanted/homeless right now, and unlucky enough that their old owners didn’t want them and nobody at the sale that day did either.
“Unwanted” horse HAS been used as kind of a propaganda term by the pro-slaughter side. I don’t think it’s accurate. I think we have a surplus horse problem which is different – we have too many horses, we made WAY too many, the demand is probably NEVER going to come back to what it once was with this crap economy. We are going to have to euth … a LOT. That’s the reality.
That said I still don’t see that SEO is pro-slaughter but I did ask them. We’ll see what they say.
“unwanted” versus “surplus” – semantics, really. Both terms ultimately mean an oversupply of horses, and an undersupply of good homes. Whatever side one is on, the over-supply/surplus/too many horses and lack of homes are FACTS.
I realize how much power language has, and this is infuriating to me.
I think any reasonable person will see that the programs SEO has (the euth clinics, and now trying to support good rescues via reduced vet bills, etc) are designed to keep horses OUT of the slaughter pipeline. I suspect they are going to have a learning curve (like most rescues do though obviously they aren’t a rescue per se) – but I do not doubt for one minute their sincerity in trying to help horses.
Evening SVS,
This is not an isolated issue right now. There is more than one such organization that is deflecting and/or failing to answer questions relating to their mission and activities in this regard. Personally, I expect colleagues that develop NFPs (specifically 501 C3′s) that solicit donations, to directly answer questions regarding their goals and actions.
Perhaps Dr. Hansen’s organization is not involved in legislation, lobbying, or educating legislators and/or the public, but other such entities are. Once you cross that line from simply offering services to involvement in policy and “education”, if you are defraying your costs by taking donations, you should be able to cowboy up and address such inquiries.
IMO if you (a potential donor or someone who might join or support such an organization in a professional sense) ask about these issues and are unable to get a direct answer, then it should raise a red flag if this is something you feel strongly about. The behavior is gutless and disingenuous.
Concerned,
While I am hearing the ” take it down for the horses ” replys, I disagree with you. FUGLY did not cause this problem. The owner did. Since her trail of personal neglect along with her poor horses conditions started many many moons ago, this information being posted should not be some big shock. By the time law enforcement and rescue groups get involved and are removing / re-homeing horses…..you would have to know that there is a problem.
If the owner is threatening to hold back horses from getting good homes because of the Internet sites exposing her choices, then let her watch them go to auction. Im sure that with the amount of people fostering and taking in these horses, they wont go to the canners.
Sorry…..but this lady made her bed. Too bad for her that its ” freaking her out ” at this late hour. She should have thought of her role in this mess BEFORE her horses got into this condition. If mine even missed more than one meal here, I would be on the phone calling friends to come get them.
Good-Luck with this rescue.
Here here!!
Concerned, Fugly said she wasn’t going to take it down without good reason and you have yet to supply a good reason. She wasn’t the first to break the story(it had been circulating for days) nor did she supply an email address for Nancy so she cant be held responsible for the (irresponsible) owner not adopting out these horses that the courts have ordered her to.
I think that about sums it up, right?
You are so right about it being all over the net. I got the PDF file 2 days ago through one of the Morgan lists from a rescue group. Along with the same story Cathy posted on this blog. And the same email address to contact about taking one of the horses.
hey Fugs,
I can’t open the PDF with pcis for some reason. Is it possible to post the pictures so we can see them?
For some reason I can’t FTP from the net with this new ISP…grrrr. Sorry! I will fix it tonight.
Fugs! You need to find a copy of the Canadian thoroughbred magazine and turn to page 56 RIGHT NOW! I’m at work or I’d scan it and post it right now for you. If you still haven’t found it or no one else finds it for you I will do that when I get home in 3 hours. It’s about slaughter pertaining to race horses and you’re going to do a fucking happy dance!
I’m at work too LOL…but I’d love to see it later!
I got it scanned but I had to email it to you as a pdf
I sent it to resqtb@yahoo.com if that’s still your right email
did you get it ok?
I did, thanks!
Let us know if you move the sales list. It appears per the earlier post that “all the horses have wonderful new homes”, but I’d still like to see it. I feel like I’m missing half the story without the pictures!
So the beginning of this woman’s financial woes began as a nurse in Illinois? Wow…
I’m in southern Illinois (um, read: absolutely no where close to Chicago) where the sign-on bonuses alone are better for nurses than doctors. Many of the facilites around here will reimburse educational expenses (even previously acquired ones still outstanding) for signing on for a certain length of time…usually 3-5 years. Many of the specialists in the area rotate around hospitals from St. Louis, Paducah, or Cape Girardeau so nurses are heavily relied upon.
I doubt someone with her history is going to freak out and not let the horses be placed with good homes. The mentality behind this ordeal is more likely to have to good ol’ Pitiful Pearl routine that says, “I was doing the best I could.”
Thoughts? http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001aqj1QInodGS3RYEdkOS026hXhMkM8j7tr_VHF2zX1o2fgJSWTCw1XG-mdhAP-qyCQ0lPggZYU5py4PHxXd_wjSoJLkRRKNV_tmf0tArtjBP7SclJQ8WPRkDTV_3qoi-MJSCpIyhgckobSmjgaGMZpdufuMQ0qFv4N4dzdoC188Hz92e6XDIhVCwU_oNfxo0UI8mF0SsJU9DEYYgfayemBLPrHb_LVaDd5qHnhw0gAxA2hBY7esAemaH1G3vyoHHlqZcBElHImdsm6KHu8QmuzrMSWCkMNEyA9GboYOEeVnkTQHt2U6yqEeAZn2tQWFHy
(I’m interested in hearing comments on this “article”.)
That article pretty much embodies the entire list in the article fugly previously published. I felt like I was reading the list all over again
rhnf — she used to live in Makanda and was TD for some of the local and I think SLADS dressage shows. She had some really nice horses.
What does it take for a previously responsible horse owner to become a hoarder? I have two answers. I think they go hand in hand. The first is denial: being unable to see the problems. The second is extreme fatigue. That can come from depression, fibromyalgia, or other causes. It is truly disabling. (BTDT)
Put that disabling fatigue and denial together – and you get an animal hoarder. Denial keeps them from understanding their limits; they’re sure the money/food/help will come tomorrow. Denial keeps them from seeing the conditions their animals are in.
Now, ‘scuse me while I start sorting out last year’s financial stuff, which is piled 2 feet deep on the table. I gotta do the taxes, y’know. Oh, no! The dust! Feh!
Ruthie, the paper hoarder
I think depression is almost always a component but that depression may be also related to a health condition.
You just don’t see sunshiny, happy, well-adjusted people hoarding.
Hoarding is a psychological problem and can vary from hoarding items to hoarding animals. It is an actual condition people suffer from.
Ha, so there’s a net saying called “being slashdotted,” which is something that happens to unsuspecting sites who get mentioned on the technology blog/site called slashdot.com. They get knocked off line usually within minutes of a mention. It’s not malicious, but many people don’t have the bandwidth for their site to handle all that interest.
I vote we start calling it being “fuglied.” Get mentioned on FHotD and your site/photo/document goes poof for exceeded bandwidth and you’ve just been fuglied!
LOL. That one was my own fault – I was having FTP issues and thought, oh, I’ll just put it on Google Docs.
Apparently Google Docs couldn’t hack it!
Yeah, correct – Google Docs says I’ve exceeded my bandwidth for viewing items not in Google Docs format. Whatever that means.
It also will not allow me to download it for offline-viewing. Says its experiencing technical difficulties.
Sorry about all the fabulous spelling in my previous post (no coffee + phone keyboard = disaster). Anyway, this is OT, but warrants attention, because the perpetators were charged with FELONIES. Thankfully the judge had a clue. Godspeed sweet mare
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2010/04/039.shtml
OMG!! How do people become so sick and demented??
OMG
why…?
I like the idea of inmates caring for neglected and /or abused animals, though…. If that doesn’t teach them compasion then I don’t know what will.
Eh, it makes me nervous. It’s fine for white collar criminals, tax evaders, prostitutes, drug offenders, but I don’t want anyone who’s ever been violent to a human touching a horse. Screw THAT. They can do something else in their incarcerated leisure time.
Yeah… Like violet inmates passing around syringes of pool acid and sodium bicarbonate.
WFT was the point to this? The gene pool is WAY to cloudy. When you have people who do sick things like this – It’s Game Over in my book. Why waste the tax dollars locking them up. They will screw up again and again. I’ll guarantee it.
Actually, there was an excerpt from an animal behavior book that I’d been reading that talked about a horse-inmate-care program that was going on at some prison…reported with a lot of success, because the “horse care time” was treated as a special *privilege* that could easily be taken away for any violent infraction or other behavior problem on the part of the human inmate, and the horses were very pampered as a result (IIRC the horses in that program were also rehabbed former abuse cases and/or otherwise ‘unwanted’ horses). Many who were former serious problem/repeat offenders (and yes, even violent crime offenders) found that developing a partnership with a horse opened their eyes to the merits of work and the rewards of another creature working with and putting trust in a human, in a way that other types of counseling really don’t penetrate as regularly.
I’d have to dig that book up and see what program it cites, but it certainly sounded like a benefit for the animals and the humans together.
I saw this on CNN and was just dumbfounded…just when I think that I can no longer be surprised by the sheer deprivity of people, here’s a story that again shows that the extent of peoples cruetly is just beyond the capacity of my brain to comprehend. Just an awful story. Poor horses.
I just got a reply back stating the horses all have new homes. Looks like I will not need to find transport now. Thanks Jenm.
backinthesaddle, I’m glad it worked out for the horses and a big Thank You to you for even considering helping one!
What a sad story. I googled the name of the mare who was listed as missing to see if she was found. She’s safe and well, she now belongs to the Shagya Arab Youth Program Director, who got her from Nancy. It sounds like Nancy was a mentor to this young lady, as well as to many others involved with Shagyas. How very sad that things had to end this way for her. I hope the Shagya breed doesn’t suffer for losing an advocate in such a shameful, public way.
What a compelling reminder for everyone to know their limits. Whether it be cats, dogs, horses, or kids, these types of situations keep happening, often to people who should know better (like Nancy). One more horse or one “accidental” breeding can tip the balance and things can go wrong very quickly. If someone reads this story and reconsiders breeding, then perhaps we can have fewer horses suffering in years to come. Then these horses won’t have suffered completely in vain.
Slightly OT, but I just got a call from a former neighbor that moved out of state and left her horse with her parents. She needs to find a new home for her 25 year old Arab gelding. He is located in Clatskanie, Oregon. He is broke tho not ridden for a year, has been in 4H before, trail rides but is not a total beginner horse. She told me that he is in good flesh, supplemented with equine senior and grass hay. I think he would do great with a knowledgeable rider, would be a good leadline horse or pasture ornament. Dark bay color, I have not seen him in a while but he is a cutie., about 14.1. I will go out there tomorrow and take some photos. I have my quota of horses right now or I would take him myself. Her alternative is euthanasia if he is not adopted. He will not go to auction.
hopecreekfarm@gmail.com if you are interested in seeing him. Thanks!!!
Tell her to contact OHSET! They may very well have a kid for him.
OT? Great article Selling the “Unwanted Horse”
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/features/theunwantedhorse-179.shtml
Not OT at all – that’s the article that shows my point. It’s been on the blog before.
I managed to get the pdf open thru some manipulation. I was saddened by the condition of the horses and the fact that her old stallion, Bold Bravo, was one of those being placed. I hope he went to a suitable home.
You don’t pay your education loan they will get it from you from your state and federal taxes in time. So if she gets a job where they take taxes they will get the money back from whatever refund she has coming till it is paid off.
I went to the breed website, and I don’t see that any of her studs are currently “approved”–is that right? Nor is she listed in their “breeders directory”. So she must have been out of the legitimate Shayga scene for awhile now, and doing her own thing… What a shame, but seems like they’ve all found homes, so a good ending, at least for these horses.
I am so tired of these people who are making us Unicorn breeders look bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is really ruining my fun with my faeries on my website.
Anyway, on a more serious note…..I really hope the Shagya’s find themselves a great home, I have been fascinated with this breed since I was a little girl studying about the other arabian horses. I have never seen/owned one but I am sure they are great animals. Do not let bad press about the owner stop you from adopting one of these horses if it is what you want.
It is good Fugly does not take these things down because too many people say ‘keep it quiet for the sake of rescuing’ and then in the meantime horses suffer for it. Someone has to speak for the horses, they can not speak for themselves.
I read the blog on “how not to sell your horse” then went on craigslist.
Why the hell is this horse still a stallion?????
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1681042843.html
Cause him so danged perty.
I am on the east coast so am in no danger of adopting any more of these four legged animals but I always wondered…..When the courts or animal control orders that you turn over or they come and take quality, registered animals of any kind do you have to turn over their papers too? So When these Shagyas get new homes are the owners getting fully registered arabs that they just have to transfer ownership on?
Its one of those questions I always wondered
In Los Angeles if I have to impound a horse the papers do not come with the animal. If the animal was impounded with a microchip or tatoo which identified the animal it would be noted on the adoption paperwork which shows you are the legal owner. Now if the breed registry would accept that document ( maybe with some newspaper ads and such of the impound) as enough proof to transfer ownership and let you register the horse I don’t know. If we get animals surrendered to us due to economy, family illness, ect. alot of times they will give us the paperwork to pass on to the new owner.
I know AQHA will give you papers if you have a court order or proof of legal seizure, though I think it can be a pain to accomplish. So will AHA.
Really?! You would think it would be like repo-ing a car. Like I said I always wondered and never really knew for sure. Maybe that would be a good reason for them to start a nation wide microchip/passport type system for horses. It would be nice for rehabs/rescues to be able to know what horse they have and its history and also for the law to be able to know who to hold responsible.
Gives breeders alot to think about
I would hope and imagine that the people adopting these horses from Nancy through an intermediary will recieve the papers along with them. All Shagya papers are hand written in calligraphy — that’s right, every single animal has a handwritten five generation pedigree and registration document — at least that was the case just a couple of years ago, at least with NASS — there is another registry called ASAV and I don’t know what they do. The NASS papers are done by one person and are beautiful. These horses, if inspected, which I believe most of them are, are also branded with the shagya logo and have pictures and reports of their inspection scores. Some of the part breds may not have this info, but all the purebreds probably do, and all the stallions do for sure.
So I don’t think it would be hard for people to show what horses they have and work with NASS to get the papers. It’s a small registry. There are only about 600 purebreds in the entire country.
FYI – I did get a response from Sound Equine Options. Their membership is divided on the topic of slaughter, however, they guaranteed that no donated funds would EVER go toward promoting slaughter or anything related. Their goal is to provide euthanasia which of course I support 100%. So they have a position as far as donor funds and obviously if there is ever any incident that differs from that position, you know I will call them out. For now, I have no reason not to support them. I definitely want to see people be able to find euthanasia help if they can’t afford it.
That is good news. along the same lines, there is a veterinary initiative in Kentucky (KY Equine Welfare Alliance???) that formed recently to promote equine welfare (of all breeds) through sound legislation, rescue accreditation, management of abuse/neglect, provision of services, education, etc. The founding members are equine veterinarians, but membership goes beyond the veterinary community. The effort is genuine, appears to be well organized and intended to address the needs of living horses (and keep as many living as possible). Like SOE, the slaughter issue is not part of their agenda in that it does not exist in KY and is unlikely to. Their goal as I understand it is to do what equine vets should be doing beyond generating rhetoric (which is using their skills and education to address these issues). Donations can be earmarked for specific uses. I believe the program is being used as a model for similar efforts in other states. I’ll give them two-thumbs-up. Hands-on is good; white papers are basically useless.
Update on Nancy Skakel, breeder of the decade. She (or her con-man husband) managed to con someone into providing her with $60,000 to “save her farm” or “horse torture facility” whichever you prefer to call it. She has already been harassing people who rescued horses from her to get them back and is planning to start her breeding operation over with her “core herd”. She had enabling friends hold her “best” horses for her in case she saved her place. Her property is not fit for a goat to survive on.
For those of you out there that think there is some animal relief “flight of faeries” that come in to help horses in these situations with their clipboards and credentials, I have to set you straight, there are still far reaches of the globe where these faeries do not exist. I sure wish they did. Washington State Law states that horses can be taken away based on dangerous or unsanitary conditions alone…however, even though they received numerous complaints… the Klickitat County Sheriff’s Department and their prosecuting attorney either decided to ignore that law or are incompetent. All we can do is educate local law enforcement (being done) and pressure Nancy Skakel to stop breeding and get psychological help for her “animal hoarding” disorder. I think I might google her Paradise Flat Farm in White Salmon, Washington where she raises Shagya Arabians and politely ask her to GIVE UP ON HORSES SHE CAN’T EVEN AFFORD TO KEEP A FIELD MOUSE. Also, string up her enabling friends if you know them and hold them just as accountable for enabling her to neglect these poor animals.
Oh, and the registries are doing all they can to provide papers on everyone rescued.
Also, glad you sorted out that Scott Hansen DVM is a NOT a jerk.
BTW Moderator,
I would love to provide a list of facts and information on Nancy Skakel and her con-artist William “Bill” Bailey to be used to help educate people to any prevent future exploitation of people or horses…if that would be okay with you and the laws on blogging.