And the Academy Award for Krazy Kolor Breeding Goes To:
Apr 03 2010
This story is so damn crazy it’s gotta be true, and while I certainly can’t condone the behavior…I still have to give her credit for her creativity!  This is a little more interesting than the average Krazy Kolor Breeder running out of money story. And apparently some other message boards are wimping out on any discussion so, of course, leave it to me to let you all discuss at will.
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Here is what I received:Â
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“Genevieve de Montremare was fairly well respected in Friesian circles. She claimed to be a doctor and a geneticist. She was involved with purebred Friesians and she was also involved with crossbreeding Friesians – primarily crossing rare red Friesians with dilute Lusitanos to breed palomino Friesian Sporthorses, and some of her horses actually turned out nice. Friesian x Lusitano is one of the crosses acceptable for Friesian Sporthorse registration, so she wasn’t doing the crazy backyard Friesmorgapaintaloosa thing (as a responsible Friesian Sporthorse breeder, I cringe at those as much as you do!) Â
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She was also very active with IFSHA. (International Friesian Show Horse Association.) Â
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She died in 2007 at age 40, supposedly from something like leukemia (?). Here is the obituary from the IFSHA website. They also held the IFSHA Grand Nationals ‘in her honor’ that year, and established a perpetual trophy in her honor. Obituary:
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EXCEPT…………………Â
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She wasn’t a doctor. She wasn’t a geneticist. Her last name wasn’t Montremare. And she isn’t dead! The whole thing was a scam, in part to help inflate the value of her horses (as per the court documents, which can be seen here
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FHOTD back in: See, I tell you, there is something with all those baroque breeds that is just a magnet for crazy. Gaited horses attract obese people who want to ride the crap out of them as 2 year olds, and baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women! I’m not saying you’re all crazy, but folks, Friesians and Vanners have a magnetic force field that attracts loonies like Wal-Mart attracts people with interesting fashion sense.Â
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So I did a little more research on dear Genevieve. It’s all true! Wow!Â
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Here is the court docket which lists all of her aliases:
http://banweb.co.fresno.ca.us/cprodsnp/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=D&case_id=09CECG01032&begin_date=&end_date=
http://banweb.co.fresno.ca.us/cprodsnp/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=D&case_id=09CECG01032&begin_date=&end_date=
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Apparently she is Genevieve Weilert aka Genevieve Marie Demontremare, Genevieve Marie De Montrem, Genevieve Marie Demontremart and Genevieve Marie de Rochecourt.Â
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This Friesian Blog isn’t afraid to talk about the case, but the Chronicle of the Horse wimped out and deleted the thread. Really? Come on, grow some spine. It’s right there in the court records. It’s not like it’s gossip. Here’s what the Court says:
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“Of particular interest, defendants claim that Genevieve has suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder since her survival of a traumatic assault after she was left for dead at the age of 19 while attending the University of California at Berkeley. In reply, plaintiffs present extremely persuasive evidence that demonstrates Genevieve never attended Berkeley. The evidence presented demonstrates that defendants Weilert have made many serious misrepresentations about Genevieve’s lineage, and physical health, and admitted to faking Genevieve’s death. Plaintiffs present a copy of the fraudulent death certificate and testamentary letters, as well as a copy of an article in Equestrian Magazine that serves to demonstrate the misrepresentations. These misrepresentations directly relate to plaintiffs’ claim that the alleged fraud was perpetrated to inflate the value of the subject property.”
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Wow. OK, we have all seen some crazy in the horse business, but this is, just, wow. So in order to inflate the value of your horses in the manner of Elvis memorabilia, you fake your own death and let people who actually cared about you think you have suffered a tragic demise?
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How do you even do that? Where do you go, how do you hide from them? Do you see no one but your husband? Do you wear a disguise every time you go out in public? Does your husband cry every time he talks about you? Do you lurk on the Internet under a different screen name and bemoan your own death? How in the Hell do you fake your own death? And did she just flat out walk away from her horses or did the “grieving” husband dump them on her friends or what? I found a news story about one of them, Storm Shadow, almost going to slaughter but it had been deleted at its original source.
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I would LOVE to hear more on this from those of you in the Friesian horse community who have come into contact with this woman. They’ve already admitted the behavior and your posts surely will not get deleted here, so post away!
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270 comments to “And the Academy Award for Krazy Kolor Breeding Goes To:”
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Looks like the woo-woo train stops at Horsetown.
I work for a fairly prominent Friesian farm on the East Coast, but I don’t think we’ve had contact with this lady… we’re more interested in preserving and combining the right and quality bloodlines in the black Friesians. And you’re sooooo right about the crazy people, Fugly… I’ve found that it’s not always obvious with the Friesian and baroque owners, but as soon as you get to know them, or do some business with them, or have your horses in the same keur or approval process with them, WHOA! It’s quite sad, actually, because a lot of it boils down to breeds and greed, when it should be about the horse.
“it boils down to breeds and greed, when it should be about the horse.” Agreed.
Out here on the west coast we have lots of new loony Friesian breeders who have done the breed a real injustice. They became the craze of the Dressage world — you know what happened next.
I can point you at backyard Friesian breeders who are still trying to unload horses they bred 7 years ago. Another fad gone bad.
And Fugs… “baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women!” No s*it. It seems to be the latest craze picking up speed. One of our local barns who’s known for selling expensive Dressage horses has picked up on the publics feeding frenzy. The next fad has been set in motion.
We can only pray the buyers have a hard time refinancing.
You say you can point you at backyard Friesian breeders who are still trying to unload horses they bred 7 years ago. Truth is : “I can point out every breeder of any breed that has the same problem. Along with ostragiouse , Sharpe dogs, pot belly pigs and now El packas.? “Another fad gone bad you say???? “hum it sounds like Human nature.. not crazed horse women as you stated? You obviously are a man?!. ”
Yo say:… “baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women!†No s*it. It seems to be the latest craze picking up speed. One of our local barns who’s known for selling expensive Dressage horses has picked up on the publics feeding frenzy.
” I say…….”good for them with a business sense to keep the horse world economically moving forward. Have you bought one yet?… Strange thing is I dont see THAT barn advertising any Friesians for sale. Do you? Not sure if you have the correct information?”
All I can say is ‘wow’. Unbelievable.
Some of the most bat-shit crazy people I’ve met are in the Friesian world. I’m not talking about the older well established trainers/breeders. When the Friesian Craze hit, every loon in the world started pumping theme out by the dozens. Talk about piss-poor quality and shit for brains. All these morons could see were $$$$. I was witness to several who were brought in training. Skittish, loony Friesian’s, scared of their shadow and exploding in the ring.
I personally know one social climbing nit-wit who jumped into the Friesian world buying up everything she could afford, but never riding. They were to show off at her wine gatherings in a renovated barn to the tune of $150,000 that she bailed on when the money came due. Yep, she simply walked away from the bank and original stable owner, but she took her shiny black chromed-out 450 truck with her. Havilah remains closed to this day. And she had the gall to question the ethics of others. That’s one women I’d like 5 minutes with. She left a trail of unpaid bills.
Wonder if she has had any fundraisers to help offset the cost of her “illness”? Maybe if she did, she found that was a more lucrative venue than breeding horses? I’d be interested to see if they will find out something like that…
She sounds like a sociopath. I read a book on it… The Sociopath Next Door… and playing for pity is one of the surest ways to recognize a sociopath. Crazy.
Wow. Just, wow. If it were a Lifetime Movie Event, we wouldn’t believe it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t “red” Friesians ineligible for the reputable registries?
Her photo and aliases, along with the Baroque horse thing, make me think that she desperately wants to live in a bad fantasy or romance novel…… a REALLY bad one.
Soap opera . . . good grief. Who fakes their own death except on one of those nut-case, addictive little shows??
As long as both parents of the red friesian are registered and approved, it can also be registered/approved. However, none of it’s offspring would be eligible for the main registry.
Dumbfounded expresses pretty much what I feel right now. First let me say that at first I thought the picture was of the woman named Wendy who dumped Hercules and his companion at auction. Is it just me or do they resemble one another in looks and actions? WOW! This story makes my little CDO (obsessive compulsive disorder in alphabetical order) look very, very minor. Can anyone here say compulsive liar, diabolical and just…WOW!
Yeah, she TOTALLY looks like that lady!!!
Uh.. WOW.. That is not only stupid.. but super ballsy as well.
Ya gotta ask… WHY, what was going through your mind to cause you to do that?
Would you go and get a new first name? Would you, when asked, say, I am her twin sister?
I have seen one rare red fresian in 1999, and since then fresian breeders or people would deny their existence…
At least she wasn’t breeding Fugly fresian/spotted/dunalino/arapaloosa/Rocky Mtn/walkaloosa/german sport pony crosses!!
I thought a long time ago as a teenager to create the Stars N Stripes Pony….
Breeding a zebra or zorse to a POA…. not realizing that the cross would be sterile.
Would be a cute pony though…
But to kill off your alias to get more schekles outta your cross breds…
WOW
Wow, she may also be as crazy as some of the mustang whisperers. While there are some good people, the crazies seem to come out of the woodwork every so often.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised one day to discover that Tee of the Lifelines debacle was still alive, either. Seems there were quite a few questions surrounding her supposed “death” and multiple aliases.
You and me both! I was taken in by “Tee” when I was a newbie to the whole rescue thing — now, I think I might have seen some red flags. But other quite reputable people were also scammed, so who knows. I do wish more information had come out afterwards, there are still a lot of questions. And, of course, I wish that the horses had not, as usual, been the ones who got the worst of the deal.
I agree, I would not be at all surprised to find she was alive somewhere.
I am totally “aghasted.”
And yes, I remember reading about Tee and Lifelines on the ABR forum and it did seem really fishy.
“You all right , Genevieve?”
“Yeah, I was dead, but I’m feeling better now, thanks”
Joke courtesy of Russell Howard, BBC3.
What kind of a sick parent would fake their own death and get their child to go along with it. I really don’t understand why there isn’t more hubbub about this.
Looks like Michael and Genevieve had a little interpersonal trouble of their own in 2006. (Ironic that no aliases were found for Genevieve.) http://banweb.co.fresno.ca.us/cprodsnp/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=D&case_id=06CEFL06009&begin_date=&end_date= I could be reading this wrong but it looks to me like they were talking divorce in 2006. Wonder how they went from that to collaborating on a faked death? Quite a roller-coaster, no wonder the daughter is having emotional toubles. Hopefully there are some non-wacky relatives who can step up for her.
Am wondering how the IRS feels about all this … I always feel taxed to death, but never thought about faking my own death and “moving on” to start anew.
You gotta give her credit, though. She’s creative and ballsy. As for her horse breeding operation, her fancy-shmancy name would be a red flag for me. Just hoity enough to be phony as Hell.
I’d like to deal with people with REAL sounding names ;o)
NOOOO kidding!!
Reminds me of John Edwards’ mistress, Rielle Hunter, Photographer, who started out life as Lisa Druck, Heiress, whose dad killed horses for insurance money.
I mean, seriously. Rielle?
Sometimes, though, real names are pretty …. interesting, especially here at the Gateway To The South.
Well, it is Easter. Perhaps she was the second person to arise after death. If her horses were her “life”, wonder what she planned to do after her “death” was over. Just lay low for a few months and then start up breeding and showing again and hope no one remembered that you died? If you loved horses, you’d soon want to get back into doing something with them again. Where did all her horses go after she died? Wonder if people attended her funeral. If I had donated any money to her memory, I’d sure be knocking on her door to get it back. You know, after reading about her, it makes me glad that I am a little nobody with my own little nobody horsie in my back yard, and with my own little nobody farm to putter around on it having a good time and not feeling like I have to chase a dream, or BE somebody, 24/7. Far easier to remember what you say when you tell the truth each time. Yikes! Imagine being married to this skitzo? I’d love to take a peek at her bank account. With the ease of practically finding out what you ate for breakfast because of the Internet and the horse grapevine, I don’t know how ANYONE would have the balls to pull this scam off….unless she really does have a serious mental condition that makes her believe her lies.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Except psychos of the horse world usually just move to another state, switch breeds or disciplines, and oddly, no one is the wiser. Goes to show how insular each segment of the horse world can be.
Wow to Mrs. Deadlady.
On a less extreme note, it is just embarrassing what Americans have done and are doing to classic bloodlines like the Fresian. Leave the breeds that should stay PURE alone! Its like we Americans see something so pure and classic and see how quickly we can screw it up so we cross it with an app. When training in Germany a few years back, I noticed that even the pasture ornaments are all of wonderful confirmation and type. That is NOT by mistake. Europe has the discipline to keep breeds pure and therefore QUALITY continues there. I just cringe when I see some of the crosses we have created. And this “American Warmblood?….dont get me started.”
Newbie,
The last thing on Earth I’m going to do is to defend the looney sociopathic behavior of this woman. However, I would like to comment on your assumptions regarding the “pure” and perfect bloodlines of “classic” Friesians, and your assumptions regarding European breeding and bloodlines.
The sad fact of the matter is, that purebred Friesians carry many debilitating genetic disorders that are a direct result of the tiny gene pool that exists in the Friesian breed — just like the “purebred” dog breeds do as well.. The Friesian population has experienced more than one extreme population bottleneck within the last 100 years. Every single Friesian horse alive today stems from a combination of only 37 individual “founding” animals – technically even fewer, seeing as there were only three RELATED stallions used for breeding among those 37 individuals. There are an estimated 40,000+ Friesians worldwide today. Can you hear the theme from “Deliverance” yet?
The high quality “backyard bred” Warmblood horses you see in Europe are NOT “purebred” in any sense of the word. Warmblood registries in Europe (all except for Trakehners) have open studbooks. In essence, (if applying your terms), they are all “mutts”, and cannot be compared in any way whatsoever to “purebred” Friesians.
Are there tons and tons of crappy, heinous Friesian crosses in the U.S.? HELL YES. But those are because of crappy breeding decisions and a lack of horse breeding “education”, not because they are not PURE.
There is SO MUCH MORE to this than what you assume. If you want to learn more, I’d be happy to oblige. But please don’t make assumptions regarding breeds you most probably know little about.
Now back to discussing the sociopathic con artist “dead” Friesian breeder, and “confidant to dying individuals” for whom she just HAPPENED to become a TRUSTEE for prior to their death! Oh she was just SO COMPASSIONATE! . …. Lock her up and throw away the key.
That is really interesting, but a 37 individual base for a breed of only that number is more than viable.
Remember the whole human race was down to five thousand individuals at one point, and that every single person on this planet is descended form those five thousand……
I have to say that the whole point of a Friesan is that it is BLACK….the one thing that does drive me absolutely nuts is the way these horse breeds suddenly gain new colours when they arrive in the States. Yes, there have always been red Friesans, as there have always breed red Andalusian, and cream Lusitanos….but the breed register barred them. They were not “rare” they were unregisterable, as they did not fit the breed description.
I think that is perfectly acceptable, it is their breed so they say what is and is not acceptable.
Until it hits the States.
Now we have Pinto Welsh, (Not accepted by the Mother Stud Book) Palomino TBs (where the hell did that come from???) etc, etc.
What is the point of getting the breed in the first place, if all you are going to do is change it?
The Friesan may well have had problems, but it also had a breed Society that was well aware of it’s problems, and was working hard both in the lab and in the breeding pen, to solve it.
Now you have a load of crazy BYBs breeding any sort of “rare Friesan” to anything at all.
NUTS!
To me the Friesian people just are not making sense by dumping the reds out of the gene pool. The gene pool just is not large enough to disqualify horses solely based on COLOR. Make it a requirement that every horse be color tested, and those carrying the red gene breed only to homozygous blacks. Give reds full registry and breeding rights, but if they must, penalize them in the showring only. Then you don’t lose the genetic diversity of those lines.
I’m ok with the Friesian registries having whatever standards they want. I also commend the intelligent, responsible, breeding of Friesians with great movement and conformation to other horses who also have excellent conformation and movement to create some pretty awesome sporthorses. I think unwise breeding of any horse is awful because why intentionally breed an ugly, poor mover with no trainability? You have enough uncertainties when you’re breeding two good horses!
I am slightly biased because I drool over a Friesian/Morgan cross at my barn who is a pretty awesome dressage horse. I wouldn’t trade my OTTB for him, but he’s still just gorgeous, talented, and a fast learner.
Actually, the Dutch Friesian registry disallows ALL crossbreeding, to the point of throwing out breeders and unregistering horses that have ever been crossbred. They’re kinda…nuts.
There is a huge difference between base population of 5000 and a base population of 37, particularly when only 3 of the 37 were males and all 3 of those males were related. That is why humans do not have the degree of genetic problems that Friesians do.
I saw a Friesian who was being treated at a veterinarian’s place once. This horse (still a stallion by the way) had hit the defective gene jackpot. He was a dwarf, swaybacked, had dropped pasterns, and I can’t remember what all else. He was just a mess and he was a young horse. I heard he became rather famous among the vets in this area because his owners had taken him all over trying to “treat” everything that was wrong with him. I think they must have spent a lot of money buying him as a foal – but I’m sure they spent even more trying to treat him. I never heard what happened to him, but from what I saw, putting him down would have been a kindness.
Warmblood registries in Europe (all except for Trakehners) have open studbooks. In essence, (if applying your terms), they are all “muttsâ€, and cannot be compared in any way whatsoever to “purebred†Friesians.
Mutts.. Funny. That’s what I tell people in the US when they ask what a Warmblood is. It’s a very hard concept for us to understand. We think Purebred, it doesn’t get any better than that.
Warmblood isn’t a breed, it’s a type of horse.
Years ago someone explained the term Warmblood to me as a registry, not a breed. This is so true. All the different registries try to fine tune their horses by pulling from different breeds. I bred my TB mare to an approved Swedish stud and got a Class I rated fully registered Swedish Warmblood. He isn’t a TBx (‘tho he really is)! I love the description of warmbloods as mutts! So true. This lady is a nutcase. I dated a guy once whose stories were so outlandish, I thought, “Who would make this shit up?” The truth – a nutcase, which he turned out to be.
‘warmblood’ is a type while ‘Warmblood’ stands for a horse belonging to a specific group of registries (‘breeds’). The books are not open: for the ‘American Warmblood’ and similar registries a horse needs to be of a certain type and the owner needs to pay a fee; whereas for the Warmblood registries your horse typically needs to be a member of a pre-approved breed (eg a thoroughbred, another WB registry), you need to have it evaluated, and there may be further limitations before the offspring is admitted to the main studbook and acquires full papers.
From where I’m standing it works exceedingly well. The balance between improving breed standards and allowing new, complimentary blood into the breeding programme seems to work in maintaining high standards. I would love to see Friesians adopt a similar approach – to, as a breeding organisation, investigate the possibilities to bring in related blood, including some of the horses that had been thrown out of the breed for excessive white – I’d rather have a Friesian with half a fetlock in white than one with a genetic defect that impinges his quality of life and life expectancy. It would be perfectly possible to run an appendix registry with the option of approving F2 for the main book – but if breeding purebreds carries a higher-than-average risk of producing a sick horse, your breeding programme needs a severe overhaul; in my opinion it is ethically not supportable to keep breeding under the same arbitrary rules when you’re harming horses. No amount of ‘tradition’ is worth the suffering of horses.
The Barn Supervisor of a camp I worked for one (horrible, traumatizing) summer said that American Warmbloods are when it works, if it doesn’t then its a draft cross. She was talking about an evil, hideous mare (this mare would run backwards to go after other horses with her charger plate sized hooves) who was the epitome of a BAD cross.
(aside: Fugly, if we ever get a break from the crazies, a topic that should be covered is summer camps, after attending/working at several “specialty” and general camp barns I’ve seen some excellent camps and some oh-my-goodness-you-have-no-right-to-be-around-a-horse and I know a lot of people have no clue what to look for when they’re sending their children.)
Hellllllo, Crazy!
No, seriously though. From what I’ve read (thanks for the links there, Fugs!), this lady is a classic sociopath. Truly. (List of symptoms for Antisocial Personality Disorder: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/DS00829/DSECTION=symptoms). She really seems crazy. And the fact she has a daughter that she would bring into this? Wow. Just…wow. I’m not sure we’ll ever see someone so literally bat-shit insane on this blog again. (Famous last words, of course.)
Wow, just wow. I had thought I had heard everything. Who could do that.
Hmmmmm….
come to think of it, there is a gal breeding friesians in colors, and says they are for dressage.
She lives in the high desert of CA., and I wonder…
NAH! Couldn’t be, that is too easy.
why is it that gaited horses attract obese people like flies who ride them till they “break”…..I have been asking myself this for years. Some people are just insane but this woman takes the cake
Yeah, we fat chicks are inherently insane and abusive towards animals. Really, until we starve/torture ourselves until we’re (temporarily) acceptably aesthetic we shouldn’t be allowed near any animals at all, much less a horse. Wait, how are we near horses? I thought we were too lazy to get off the couch (where we are stuffing our heads with an endless stream of Ding Dongs) and go outside?
Anyway, everyone knows that all human beings have exactly the same frame size and the same genes for body shape. The difference between a woman who eats a balanced, healthy diet and is visually slender and a woman who eats the same balanced healthy diet and is visually rotund isn’t metabolism or genetic stock — the slender woman is just a better person! Wait, that’s how we can prevent horse abuse! We just just pre-emptively ban fat chicks from horses! Their fatness and inherent evil are warning us! I’d better go break my lease on my horse! It’s only a matter of time until I break him!
The cited example in the original blog was riding two-year-olds into the ground. I weigh seventy-nine pounds, and if I rode a two-year-old gaited into the dirt it would break. Little factoid thar.
thanks concolora, well spoken! i started becoming a tubby when i quit smoking and when my thyroid was ablated (killed), it pretty much finished the job. i do ride a 24 year old morgan that i guarantee that is not “broken”. i would stand him against any 12 year old horse! i use a mounting block and am careful not to “plop” onto his back or bounce around in the saddle, but i guess he should be taken away from me cause, i am a chunk of a woman and i know a skinny person would be better to him.
Wow. You’re awfully defensive. I don’t think main point here is about the weight of the rider. (I think the writer was being sarcastic, actually). The main point is that irresponsible breeders who feign their own deaths are crazy.
I don’t mind heavier riders who choose horses that can handle their weight. If you’re experienced, balanced and your mount is OK, knock yourself out at 300 lbs! Have fun out there.
I just don’t get why overweight riders are so easily offended, even on posts that aren’t really about them.
Concolora, it is really not that hard to read and comprehend that they’re not saying that all fat people abuse horses. they’re making a reference towards the people that DO. good lord.
I’m fat. Haven’t always been, gained alot of weight in my late 20′s and now at 31 am having alot of trouble losing it. I will admit I reached 200 lbs though, about 50- 60 lbs overweight for my height. Guess what? I ride a Walker. He is also 17.3hh, weighs about 1300 lbs and is big enough to haul my fat ass around while I’m stuffing my face with the Doritos I keep stashed in my saddlebags. I make no apologies for my weight, what I ride and how I ride it. I’m active, my horse can handle me and my skinny friends will tell you they have one hell of a time keeping up with us on the trail. And BTW- after ten years of hauling me around my horse is still 100% sound, has zero back problems and can outlast my friend’s endurance horse on the trail. He is FAR from being broke down, Farm Troll.
Thanks for your words of encouragement. I have lost 15 lbs since the end of January, I am determined to make it 50 by the end of the year, and I am hoping that at 200 lbs, someone will let me on their lesson horse. In Farm Wife’s defense, I’ve seen many adds on Equine now, Horsetopia etc showing 4 year old, 14.3 TWH’s carrying about 250 lbs of Bubba and 60 lbs of Western Saddle with comments like “been ridden on the trails for years, had a gun shot off him (poor horse probably unable to move) etc. Because of my degerative disc disease, a TWH is in my future, but I am going to have to be careful to not find one ridden at an early age.
I absolutely believe that a heavier rider who is skilled and careful with a good seat and hands is easier on a horses back and joints than a thin rider with neither. But i think that Fuglee’s point is that just because a horse is smooth gated and docile it shouldnt’ be packing a heay rider around the trails as a two year old.
that is exactly my point. I am very thin, my husband is not he is very tall and heavy but in great shape we have him on a 16h mustang who is 12 yrs old he rides better than me most of the time…we have relatives who are very out of shape not good riders with lots of money who breed gaited horses and cannot wait to show them off at 2yrs old or throw there lazy kids on them to show them off and ride them into the ground. they are constantly giving me “tips” on how I shouldnt “baby” my horses and ride them basically like they are machines or off road vehicles. it is just funny that she says that because I have people in my family that are exactly what fugly is saying.
Keep up with the good work! And I, too, have a theory on why overweight people are attracted to gaited breeds. In general we have more health problems, including: bad backs, hips, knees and ankles. We are less mobile in general. Gaited horses are smooth and easy on the joints. Add to that that fact that they are bred with gentle, willing and easy-going natures and you have the perfect horse for the physically challanged rider. To give gaited breeds a bad rap because they are ideal for a certian type of rider just sucks. I have had my gaited horses before I gained weight and will have them after I lose it. I fell in love with gaited horses because of what is in their hearts and their heads, not because they can accomodate my lifestyle.
Well, I’m going to be honest with everyone and say that I weigh upwards of 300 pounds, and still ride. I carefully condition my horses, have made sure that all of my horses are conformationally sound and pay very close attention to the feedback they give me when I am around them or on their back.
In the 10 years I have been riding, I have never once “broke” a horse because of my weight. The very first horse I leased was an older slab-sided, tall and lanky TB. I rode him for two years before he passed peacefully from complications with a heart murmur (that he had had all his life). I now ride a 15.2hh, 1200lb quarter horse. I have never made her sore, and she always ends a ride perky and not tired. My horses are vet checked twice a year, and I’ve even gotten compliments from my vet about how well conditioned they are.
Having said the above, I know my limitations with horses. I have never galloped cross-country (and probably never will), I rarely canter. I prefer a nice quiet walk through the forest, or down a dirt road in the desert, enjoying the scenery and my four-legged partner.
When you consider that horses in medieval times carried knights in armor, or that calvary horses carried big strong men and their tack/gear many miles in a day, for several days in a row, horses have a pretty good weight carrying capacity IF they are conditioned properly. Other current examples include the mini donkeys in Ireland or Connemara ponies who are generally shorter than 11hh, and carry full grown men!
Just my two cents.
*prepares for flames*
Cadence,
It takes a lot of bravery to come forward to say “Yeah, I’m fat but I enjoy horses, too.” There is so much pressure put on many equine competitors and hobbyists to be thin. It’s better to be thin than have a good seat, be balanced in the saddle, have correctly-fitted equipment, or sensitive hands. Oddly, if you’re a big guy on a 13.3 hand reiner or cutter, no one says a word.
I’m fat, but I can’t ride due to an injury during my nursing career. I had a cataclysmic side effect from back-surgery, and several illness which sealed the no-ride deal, but I sure cheer anyone on who can ride. I don’t care if you have physical, mental, financial, or whatever kind of challenges as long as you and your horse are safe and healthy and enjoying yourselves.
My advice is to enjoy your horses, and recognize that a Friesian can never be slimmed down into a Saddlebred. We are all different and maybe I am naive, but I believe there’s room on FUGLY’s blog for us all.
Best wishes!
Thank you, Pirate Horses, for the encouragement. It means a lot. =)
It makes me mad to go to rodeos sometimes and see men in the 250-300lb range, riding 14.2-15.0hh horses(in the 1000lb range) with full western tack on (roping saddles, etc.) and absolutely NO ONE has a problem with these men riding these horses. Rodeo horses are worked hard. Hard stops, fast starts, lots of strain put on those joints.
I am in the process of losing weight, because I know the extra weight is going to cause health problems eventually. But weight alone should not stop someone from pursuing a dream such as riding or being around horses. I am a very active person, I have four acres of land, and many many animals to take care of. And I’m out there taking care of them.
It’s frustrating to be lumped into that stereotype that because I’m fat, I must be lazy. It’s far from the truth, and I wanted to let everyone know that!
Cadence
All this talk about a weighty issue makes this skinny white kid want to chime in…. I applaud anybody who has the desire to ride a horse, and take good care of the animal. So long as the horse is happy in their job, weight shouldn’t really be a factor…
Granted, in the Arab world, I occasionally see a frighteningly large person (I’m talking marshmallow man from Ghostbusters size) on a 14hh baby, and I don’t like it one bit. However!! I’m around 115lbs and my gelding gets sore (yay for long, weak backs). So, it’s not weight, it’s conditioning and conformation!
Keep riding ladies. =]
…this seriously might inspire a book out of me, no lie. I’m really~ curious as to how she managed to pull it off. It’s more than ‘ballsy’; she’d have to be pretty smart to do it.
But hey, there’s another explanation: it’s Easter. (:
I can’t speak for whether she is alive or dead; I don’t know. What I do know is that I have seen some of the results of her breeding project with the Friesians and Lusitanos, both in photos and in person, and the ones I saw were SPECTACULAR. Magnificent, athletic, beautifully conformed foals with incredible movement, who seem to be maturing into beautiful and talented sporthorses. The foals were so gorgeous with so much obvious potential that I was briefly (but strongly) tempted to give up on my search for a horse who fit very specific criteria and get one of those foals instead (which would match essentially none of the criteria I had decided on, except “is a horse”).
Maybe she did fake it all, and I’m not saying she didn’t, but it doesn’t make sense to me; the quality and talent of those foals should have spoken for itself. There was no need to try to drive up the price, and as far as I know, the project has languished since her death/disappearance. Though I could be wrong.
I do have a Friesian, and have met some of the nicest, wisest, most knowledgeable horsepeople in my life through my Friesian connections. I won’t deny the Pretty Pretty attracts the Crazy sometimes, but I admit it makes me a little sad to hear the Friesian community painted with such a broad ‘crazy’ brush. I know, Fugs, you were very careful NOT to say “all!” I appreciate it! I know that crazies don’t make their breed look bad, they make crazies look bad.
I have seen some beautiful friesians and am a fan of 1 stud in particular in my state who has shown throughout the east in dressage and gone away a champion many times. I am also a fan of his owner who is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. She also happens to own Gypsies (I don’t call them Vanners). I have always been a die hard QH fan and own 4 along with a shetland I rescued 2 years ago. Last year I met a Gypsy, fell in love, and now have 3.
I do not believe in cross breeding regardless of how wonderful the offspring may be. Next thing you know, people are cross breeding cross breds and then what do you have? If you want a horse for a particular requirement, look around as there are so many really good horses out there that need homes. I think this woman should stay dead!
Fugly, I am a long time fan of yours, but your references to baroque horses/owners, does sometimes offend me. I don’t believe I’m crazy (or I hope not). In 48 years of being around horses and their owners, I have met crazy owners of all breeds and many of them you have mentioned right here.
You don’t believe in any cross-breeding whatsoever, but you love Gypsies and have bought three of them? I couldn’t disagree with you more. What do you think Gypsies ARE? Cute, hairy grade horses.
Cross-breeding willy nilly just for the hell of it is obviously reprehensible, but I don’t see why carefully planned responsible breeding should be off-limits for someone who knows what they want and have done their research.
In this particular case, the cross-bred offspring were all eligible for registry, and were all registered. Someone declared certain breeds to BE breeds at some point – you don’t have to go back that far in history to reach a point where Morgans didn’t even exist, for instance – so what makes this time, right now, so special that all breeds must be frozen in their tracks and cross-breeding for specific purpose should be off-limits?
I’ve never been in the Morgan world, all I know of it goes back to the story “Justin Morgan Had A Horse”…..but the results of the cross that created that breed created a type that was desired for a specific requirement. That cross was repeated and bred back to each other over a number of years became a recognized breed. This is also true for the Gypsy, a cross of the Dales Pony, Shire, Clydesdale, and even the Friesian going back to WWII.
If I go to allbreedpedigree.com and trace my FQHR and even AQHA registered QH’s, guess what? They all trace to the GODOLPHIN ARABIAN dating back to 1724. So that would make them grade too, right?
I may have been unclear in making my point…Cross breeding willy nilly makes for a willy nilly cross bred and some pretty fugly horses if not done carefully. But why cross breed? Just what type or requirement is out there that does not already exist?
I GUESS THE SICK CHICK WE’RE DISCUSSING HERE – ALONG WITH THE MAGNIFICENT BREED SHE MESSED WITH – REGISTERED HER HORSES WITH A NEWLY INVENTED REGISTRY, BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO DAY FHANA WILL TOUCH A CROSS BRED FRIESIAN WITH A 10 FOOT BARGE POLE. END OF STORY. AND IF A “FRIESIAN” CANNOT BE REGISTERED WITH FHANA – WELL YOU DON’T HAVE A FRIESIAN. SHE REGISTERED HER HORSES, ETC, MY BACKSIDE! WHO WITH? THE BACK YARD BREEDERS ASSOCIATION OF NORTH AMERICA? I HATE THESE NUT BUCKETS WHO CROSS BREED.
Btw the sick chick owned several approved friesian stallions valued at over 1 mill apiece and had mares in the 25k to 100 k price range as well as many many friesians horses in Holland she owned alot of friesians and had the money and the time and the huge facility to make reds with her knowledge of the red gene and also to do some crosses and al sold
so there
The “Red gene” is not rocket science, if a black horse has a recessive red gene, which is sooo simple to test for, then bred to another black horse with a recessive red gene, you have a fifty fifty chance of getting a Red foal!!
Well, actually, breeding heterozygous black to heterozygous gives the foal a **25%** chance of being red (chestnut). Ee x Ee cross = 50% chance of Ee (heterozygous black), 25% chance of EE (homozygous black), and 25% chance of ee (chestnut).
If a black horse with a recessive red gene is bred to another black horse with a recessive red gene, 1/4 will be red (1/2 will be black with a recessive red gene, and 1/4 will have 2 black genes).
If you cross two horses with the recessive gene you have a one-in-four chance of a red horse (2x recessive genes), a 50% chance of a horse carrying one red gene (1x recessive gene) and a 25% chance of having a true black horse with no recessive genes whatsoever.
The problem is that in a perfect world colour as a selector would be way down on the list of points to consider. You look at the type of the horse and the strong and weak points of each – you might consider breeding a mare with a weak point if she’s an all-round useful and healthy individual otherwise, but only to a stallion that will help to improve that area (and this means you need to know the stallion’s lineage and offspring, too – some stallions are great but their foals are not; some stallions are fine but throw outstanding foals.
Colour is somewhere up with distance/AI availability (the more convenient, the better) and price (because given the cost of breeding a good foal, a couple of hundred bucks don’t make a difference; but if the stallions are equally suitable, well…)
I think MOST breeds are mutts. I was just reading a history of Clydesdales and some other UK breeds. People “improve” their breeds all the time. Thorougbreds and Arabs loosed into the New Forest. Shires bred into Clydesdales. And yes, gypsy vanners are certainly not pedigree purebreds, but types.
We got the bug for “purebreds” and the notion of pedigrees from the Arabs, and have become, in some areas, really strict about applying it when we should be thinking about breeding good horses instead.
I have to admit, I want a Friesian myself — some little girls imprinted on Black Beauty, some girls imprinted on unicorns, some girls fell for Misty of Chincoteague, some went for the Black Stallion, and I obsessed over Goliath in Ladyhawke. Obsessed, I tell you. Even before I knew what breed he was or much of anything about horses, I wanted a stocky, yet elegant black horse with feathers and a curly mane. I dreamed about them, drew pictures of them (usually with myself on their back in armor with a lance as I’m that sort of girl), and decided that when I grew up and had money to spend to get involved with horses, that would be the horse I would have.
I’ve pretty much resigned myself to never having one — I don’t do dressage, and I don’t really want to show, so I can’t justify spending $15,000 on a horse that can do so much more than trail ride and do local parades, a horse that wants/needs a job. So I’ll rescue a draft or TB or something, give a horse who needs it a good light-work home and just be happy to have the horse smell in my life.
But I’ll still dream about Friesians.
To Concolora,
I did alot of homework prior to purchasing him. I was aware of genetic problems associated with the breed, and asked questions. I visited many friesian breeders who had the $$ to start a fancy breeding farm but did not seem to have the answers to some of my questions. Alot of these farms had crazy mixed breed friesians in my price range and would stand their studs to any mare for the $$. I had to walk away. I ended up buying my friesian from a well known friesian breeder and one responsable in part for creating FHANA. I thought they were going to be big time stuck up type of people due to their status with the breed. They turned out to be the nicest, kindest, down to earth good people I could ever hope to buy a horse from. I believe good horse breeders are just that. They know their stuff, are willing to share what they know. They don’t need fancy smancy web sites or distracting cross breeding gimics to sell a horse.
I got my 9 yr old friesian gelding for $8000 usd. I bought him for the same reason you would want one. He’s just a fancy trail horse, and my WTC horse for my english lessons. He is big enough to carry my fat ass too
It sounds to me like you’re well on the way to being a collector (hoarder). WTF? Going from 5 to 8 horses in a year, and the last three being BIG horses.
I have dogs, and only get one dog every 7-8 years. That way, I always have one to compete with, and one that’s either retired or in-training. Why on EARTH would you need three new horse at the same time???
Did yo think about the fact that someday you’re going to have a whole bunch of horses in the 25-35 year age bracket and nothing to ride? Your horses are all going to be on special senior diets, medications, etcetc. I’ve seen this happen with people in the dog rescue community (5-10 dogs, all elderly at the same time), and it’s not pretty in dogs. Much worse with an expensive-to-maintain animal like a horse.
SERIOUSLY? 8 horses doth a hoarder make??? Wow. She could be the best horse owner on the planet–you really have no idea. I don’t, either, but I’m not going to automatically assume one person with 8 horses is a hoarder. I have 5 personally, and will probably end up with 6 total. Not a hoarder–they’re all very well cared for and ridden often. In fact, one of my favorite comments of all time was from some dude who was trying to sell me his property, and he was pointing out that there were no county restrictions on the number of animals you could have on his property, whereas down the street, the limit was 10 horses per 5 acres. Then he said, “WHO ONLY HAS 10 HORSES???” He was dead serious, and I’ve been laughing about that one for years. Love it.
I wouldn’t necessarily worry about someone going from 5 to 8 in a short period of time. I’d worry a lot if all 8 were bred and they were new to breeding.
Part of the issue sometimes here is that the East coasters who are paying $1000 a month for board think you must be insane to consider having more than 2 horses, whereas you have people in rural areas who easily support 8 horses on that same $1000 a month. That said, if you have a number of horses where a $1000 vet bill would wipe you out, you have too many. Just go by that.
Yes, you are right! I hoard my 8 horses, but that will soon be 7 as my farrier wants one of my QH mares and I’ve agreed to sell her. I have 3 Gypsies as the mare I purchased was bred when I bought her. She had a lovely colt whom I have listed for sale. He may be with me for a while though as I will only let him go to the best home. As an alternative I hoard him too. I have no plans to get any more personal horses and each of my horses does have a purpose.
I have 40 acres, 2 barns with 15 stalls, and only 8 horses (soon to be 7, maybe 6). I Maybe I should get more horses to fill up those stalls? No wait, where would I put the horses I sometimes temporarily keep that are rescues and need a foster home? Like the 2 I temporarily kept when their owners home was foreclosed on?
As for Gypsies being BIG? They are a small draft, not any larger then your average horse, however they do have heavy bone and muscle. My 9 year old mare is 14.2, by comparison my QH mare is 16 hands. Guess which one would be harder to handle if she were not such a sweetheart?
Actually, real English bred colored cobs (I refuse to call them gypsy because that’s one step from calling a black horse a nigger horse…gypsy is DEROGATORY in England) stand between 14 and 14.2, usually, and anything over fifteen hands would be TOO BIG. Most of the ‘gypsy’ horses in America are just spotted draft horses that are probably bred from some cob that the seller in England laughed at the American for buying because it was too big and heavy.
They are not draft horses. They are cobs. The ideal type is not so very different from the ideal type of the Welsh Cob.
Oh, and they aren’t even technically a breed…there wasn’t a stud book for them until the 1980s and the vast majority…including the ones Americans pay ridiculous amounts of money for…are not in any way registered. I learned to ride on these horses, and my trainer bought them for a few hundred sterling at auction, often not yet broke to ride, because they were CHEAP and you could all but guarantee a good temperament…they make fantastic lesson horses.
They’re not baroque horses either, and whoever said they had Friesian blood in them…likely not. Dales Cob, definitely, but the Dales Cob is not a baroque horse either, people. (In fact, technically, its a trotter…that was what the breed was created for, although no longer used for as American standardbreds are now used in the Dales…I personally would love to see somebody revive breed races for Dales Cobs).
just one note, Gypsy isn’t really a derogatory term over here. Its a bit more of a romanticised violins and dancing, long flowing manes sort of term really. The derogatory terms are pikey pony and pikey cob.
The pikey pony – 13-15hh usualy stocky and sensible, coloured.
The pikey cob – 14-15hh stocky-er and feathered with LOTs of mane and tail, usualy sensible, coloured.
Neither are looked down on as such, they make great fun ponies but they aren’t always well put together and often don’t breed true so most people wont pay for them what they would pay for a purebred (eg. welsh)
Yeah I don’t really get those ‘Gypsy Vanner’ horses – especially the ones which the huge moustaches!
And yes – here in the UK we do NOT call them gypsys – calling someone a gypsy (or gyppo, pikey etc) is a derogatory term. I think we are supposed to call them ‘Travellers’ these days . . .
That said – you find and traditional Romany gypsy guy and you will often find some well conformed, cheap horses (and some lovely lurchers too!) just don’t expect them to be broken in the traditional sense, and expect to haggle too!
Perhaps an American can explain to me what a Gypsy Cob or Gypsy Vanner is to me please?
And seriously this woman discussed above sounds like lots of fun to have at a party but you would hate her as your neighbour . . .
I’ve always associated the cobs more with the Irish than the Romany.
And yeah. The ones this trainer used to pick up at auction were routinely only broken to harness. But they often seemed to have been nicely bombproofed.
One, that came with the interesting handle of Sabu attached was…the second most ugly horse I have ever seen in my life. He was seriously hideous…it was like every bad gene from his parents expressed and none of the good ones…square, ugly head, drafty butt, drafty hooves…NOT your image of a good cob at all.
For three years, I asked to ride him every time there was a handy hunter (basically what Americans would call a trail class). Nobody else wanted the ugly ‘Moo Cow’ horse.
Funny. You’d think the fact that I kept WINNING would clue them in. This epitome of fugly rode, drove, had perfect ground manners, didn’t know HOW to spook. Was never sick, never lame, never needed shoes. Never put a hoof wrong in all the years I knew him. He was an incredible horse.
Just finished reading the really damning evidence – pretty shocking! I stand by everything I just wrote, except the “I don’t know if she did or not…” it’s pretty obvious she did. I just don’t understand why.
Cuz she’s nutso-shitso.
I AM kind of curious about the horses, esp. since you said they were really nice.
I guess that Crazy/Sociopathic doesn’t necessarily also mean Ignorant…. she may have had a real eye for top market value and went straight for The Best, since she also went straight for The Craziest Life. So over-the-top.
Hey Fugs, I went to google to see what I could find on rare red Friesians and guess who is at the bottom of page one? No not the krazy kolor Breeder herself (since we are all supposed to think she is dead), but your column of about eight hours ago. I did happen on a couple in PA who are “attempting to keep the red friesian from becoming extinct”. Their web site mentions gentic problems with this breed but were not specific, can anyone educate me? They do have a nice looking mare that is anything but black. My daughter will be most surprised to see her. She bugs me in the way only a fifteen year old can to buy her a gypsy, and I keep telling her that when she can afford to spend her own money on a second rate British cart horse then she can get one. siseley2001 please do not tell my daughter that there is a breeder within a hundred miles of me, please, please don’t. When you live three hours from anywhere, a hundred miles is nothing but an afternoon ride. I’m afraid I would have to go and visit just to satisfy the morbid curiosity.
The problems I’ve seen mentioned in addition to the red color gene which is discriminated against are dwarfism and megaesophagus. Presently not much is known about the basis for these but they are thought to be (and it is likely that they would be) hereditary.
Genetic problems in the Friesian breed:
Dwarfism
Hydrocephalus (water on the brain)
EPSM
Aortic Rupture
Megaesophagus
Weak/locking stifles
Poor endurance
Various skin maldies
Retained Placenta (broodmares)
Poor semen quality
The first two listed problems are caused by recessive genes. Horses can be carriers without being affected themselves. If a Friesian is not affected, they cannot “develop” the condition. They only come into consideration if the horses are being used for breeding.
EPSM (PSSM), Megaesophagus, and Aortic rupture are common in the breed, but the means of inheritance are, as of yet, unknown. They can pop up anytime during a horses life. Of course, if a horse’s aorta ruptures, he/she no longer HAS a life.
Skin problems, locking stifles, and poor endurance are not life threatening, but they certainly cause the horse to be uncomfortable, and can cost a horse owner $$$ in vet bills.
The last two, retained placenta and poor semen quality, are obviously only a concern to breeders, but likely are an indication of an inbred population.
It is true that Friesians tend to attract newbies to horses. Usually ones with considerable disposable income. And unfortunately, many “breeders” fall into this category, and have no prior breeding experience as well. I like to call it “The Guinevere and Lancelot Factor”. Black and hairy = Medieval renaissance fantasy. Putting that aside though, they are a wonderful breed, and do have tons of potential. But they need a trainer that is familiar with the breed to achieve that potential.
The strict inspection process and stallion approvals make it fairly difficult for even the most clueless breeder to “screw up” and breed a total crap Friesian. But it does exacerbate “popular sire” syndrome, where the winner of the stallion show that year gets booked to way too many mares because he’s, well, “popular”. It serves to narrow the gene pool even more, however.
There’s WAY more to say than I could ever say here. If anyone is interested, my website goes into great detail!
http://www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
Judy
Thank you! That was a very educational post. I didn’t know that Friesians had those issues to deal with, but as usual it supports my argument that you should not be breeding anything until you are very familiar with the breed’s genetic issues. I agree with you that typically what happens is someone with a lot of money and a little knowledge gets involved and starts making horses. Usually they are being led into it by some breeder/trainer who sees a cash cow and convinces them the foals will sell for a lot of money. Then if that fails to happen…well, we all know how that story ends.
Fugs Said…
I agree with you that typically what happens is someone with a lot of money and a little knowledge gets involved and starts making horses.
Boy, ain’t that the truth.
There’s a local women who has too much money and time on her hands. She started out with grade level horses, then PMU mares, onto OTTBs, and now breeding lower level Warmbloods. She does nothing with the horses. They just go Poof, then suddenly a new breed appears in the pastures.
OCD is another issue popping up for the Friesians. We’ve had three foals (all out of differing mares and lines) have it, and now we’re (unfortunately) suspecting the stallion they’re all by.
jdeboer01, your site is very informative. I can’t say that I ‘enjoyed’ it because of the sad consequences for the Friesians.
I couldn’t agree with you more about the “popular sire syndrome“. Picking a very few of the best stallions to approve for breeding may improve quality in the short term, but it decrease quality due to inbreeding problems in the long term. When you use only a few stallions, all of the brood mares in the next generation are descended from those few stallions. With each successive generation the broodmares become more inbred on the stallion lines. Of course, the stallions are inbred as well. If FHANA approved twice as many stallions, how much poorer would the worst one really be than the ones that are approved now?
Look at the half-Arab registry. Some of those horses are a very high percent Arabian. I think what the Friesian horses need is a half-Friesian registry that is skewed towards high percent Friesian horses. Only register horses that are at least 50% Friesian and have no more than one out-cross in the first three generations of the pedigree. Inspect and require horses to be approved for breeding, but approve a larger percent of the stallions. This would facilitate the development of a Friesian phenotypic horse that was physically, mentally, and genetically sound.
I’m willing to bet there are others in horse business that would do that, not just in the baroque sector. That is so fucking weird…
Hello,
This is stopthesoring’s daughter, Chesty VonCans. I regret to inform the fine readers of this blog my mother passed away this morning from a herniated pinky toe. Due to extreme public interest and in an attempt to preserve the breed, we will be auctioning off my beloved mother’s 5 extremely rare Tennessee Walking Horses. They are extensively trained in 7th level trail, and two are even spotted. One of them likes beer. The bidding will start at 1 million U.S. dollars each. Any interested parties may please contact our bereaved family at bigfatliar@sociopathmail.com. Thank you for your condolances.
Thank you,
Dutchess Chesty VonCans
R.I.P. TWHgirl
I’ll give you $100,000 for the Beer-a-walka-loosa!
****SNORK***
Now that there was funny!
Good Lord. How in the hell…. and what was she planning on doing? Staying in hiding for ever?? And what about the crazy husband???? I hear he actually is an M.D. (Pathologist) Say it ain’t so…kind of ironic. I also heard her house burned down before she “died”.
I say she gets the wacked award of the century. I can’t wait to see what national news agency picks this story up. They will get video of her running into a building, coat over her head so no one sees her.
The only place for this looney is prison. Same for the husband for going along with it. I don’t care about the quality and talant of her foals or anything else. Someone that CRAZY needs to be off the streets.
Honestly, I love The Chronicle for the most part, but they’ve got the most tight-assed administrators/moderators in existence. Mention of any proper name other than your own is almost a guarantee the thread will be deleted – they must have had some issues with litigation before to make them so gunshy.
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1536376&share_this=Y
I think that is one of her horses, I am not sure if it is her selling it though.
Yes it is one of her horses, but no it’s not her selling it. It’s these folks. I saw that ad yesterday too and did a teeny tiny amount of sleuthing.
http://www.raineyvalleyfarm.com/sale_barn/
I have another question though. I saw that two of her stallions Wicher 334 and Bonne 341 died within 3 months of eachother. Is there anything suspicious there?
That mare looks like a Quarter Horse to me. And not a very impressive one. I will never understand krazy kolor breeders.
The Ultimate Krazy Kolor Breeder…
http://www.legendwoods.com/HorsePages/photoGallery/index.html
‘Ice’ lived at a barn I was at for a short time – I could not believe that he won at a Fresian show. I always thought that that particular ‘color’ was called albino and was considered a defect…
It looks to me to be either Dominant White or Maximum Splash/Sabino
Can’t be an albino — black spots on his nards and ermine spot on right hind coronet…
Also can’t be albino since albino horses don’t exist, but. Yeah, either maximum sabino or dominant white.
Thanks for the color lessons folks. I really don’t know my albinos from my dominant whites from my splash sabinos from my cremellos! I do think however, that a horse that is supposed to be black that is bred to be white is FUGLY FUGLY FUGLY, and I agree with Temple Grandin who thinks that (pink-skinned) white animals are freaks of nature and ought to be avoided at all costs.
Crap. I guess that means I should be avoided at all costs.
I dont know about ugly but I have noticed that other than the lethal white problem whites, sabinos, “albinos” (I have also heard these do not exist), fleabitten greys, anything with alot of grey or pink skin tends to get tumors. Has any one else noticed this with these colors?? It doesnt even matter the breed, I have seen arabs, paints, morgans, ASB’s, NSH’s, QH’s, and junk back yard ponies come up with internal tumors of some sort that where all a variation of grey or pink skinned color coats.
I was just wondering if it was a fluke I had noticed or if it had some real grits to it??
I think there is real grits to it. When I accompanied a friend when she took her Appaloosa to have a skin tumor removed, the surgeon told us that all of his skin cancer patients had been appaloosas with tumors where they had pink skin. Unfortunately, a couple of years later he got his first non-appaloosa skin cancer patient in the form of my pinto with a tumor in pink skin.
When my pony and I moved, I told her new veterinarian that she had previously had skin cancer. He replied that I was lucky that she did not have any white on her face because tumors in the skin around the eye were the most difficult to deal with. I have since read a couple of articles about eye cancer in horses. Both said that horses with pink skin around the eye were most susceptible.
It’s possible the skin cancer predilection is actually linked to hair pigmentation not skin pigmentation. Greys are very prone to melanomas too…
Are you talking about Melanomas? Extremely common and well-documented cancer affecting grey horses (and ‘white’ horses, as all white-appearing horses are referred to as greys, krazy kolors notwithstanding)? The spread of the cancer can cause internal tumors as well.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2268&S=0&SourceID=69
Actually, I was talking about squamous cell carcinoma. It often occurs on hairless pink skin and can spread internally.
It is my understanding (and I could be wrong, so if I am by all means correct me) that albinism has never been proven to exist in horses. Albinos are lacking pigment in skin, hair and eyes. Even horse that carry double dilute genes (i.e. cremellos and perlinos) still show some pigment, such as in their blue eyes, and no true cases of albinism in any equine species have been proven. But I am no expert by any means and if I am wrong I would love to see an example, just for curiosity sake. I am just going off of what I have been told over the years. Like I said, if I am wrong I would love to know. One of the things I love about horses is that there is ALWAYS something new to learn…
You’re ALIVE AGAIN! Hallelujah!
I also take offense at the idea that Baroque and gaited horses attract the crazies. (I don’t own either.)
I got into horses as an adult. I was inspired by my college psych professor who found many parallels in horse training and understanding the human mind. I figured I’d enjoy learning something I’d always wanted to do, and learn something about what makes people tick, as well.
The more I get into it, the more it seems that horses in general seem to attract crazies. This blog just scratches the surface of the sick and twisted things I’ve seen and heard. Nothing the (sick) horse people do, really surprises me anymore. In fact, it makes me wonder about my own motives for being involved with horses…
I don’t mean to be overly negative, there are definitely good, common sense horse people out there!
Amen Sister! I was thinking the exact same thing and know some of them personally.
it is about time this got published. let the shit hit the fan.
first off that photo may be at least 25 yrs old and the now genievive is a fat woman for those who never met her
and still think good old Gen loved them so.
Now one fact is she had , at different times, owned several approved friesian stallions ,
here in the USA and in Holland and was partners with other breeders on a few more. She owned many horses who were magnificant mares and she did hold inspections at her home and did bring the fable to the USA in a big way about this fairy tale horse.
Don’t blame the Friesian breed, every breed is rife with really bad examples of humanity.
She also was not afraid to experiment with color and so she bred the rare red friesian too, and bred warlanders and also was aware of the small genetic pool that was causing some of the friesian lines problems. But not for one minute did she ever sound to me like one who is schooled in genetics- my friends know as much or more about color than she ever discussed. AND many did know she was full of shit and said nothing for yeaqrs. Are they guilty too- I think so, I think those who did know allowed a lie to perpetuate and become bigger until it exploded……….and many have been hurt. This is a ponzi scam in equine form.
If she was asked a technical question she would suddenly get the vapors or something would be horridly wrong with a member of her family or her. I am sure she stuck a lot of people with horses – who felt she was dying or dead, and yet, some of the people are thrilled to own some of the horses such as the rare reds.
She did lie and cheat and steal in every sense of the word.
And the biggest thing is she fooled one and all for a very long time. But one thing she was good at was being able to take advantage of the things humans have- greed, and posturing, and the assumption that knowing someone or allowing them to think you know them makes you some how bigger and better than another person.
Years ago i questions many things about her and was met with such remarks due to my being a this or that- well perhaps I am but I sure am better than she is. And the fact that her husband, a respected MD has been involved in this is just the tip of the iceberg. The list will get bigger.
Oh what a tangled web we weave……….
“If she was asked a technical question she would suddenly get the vapors or something would be horridly wrong with a member of her family or her.”
Red flag!
Well, I know Friesians are a small world and it probably is very hard to question someone who’s in there promoting the breed and spending a lot of money. And if she had merely been a blowhard who alleged a bunch of degrees she didn’t have – well, that exists everywhere. But faking your own death? C’mon lady, turn off “Days of Our Lives” and rejoin us in the real world.
Wow. That lady is wacked. But I think, after reading the entire legal document, what bothers me the most is that her DAUGHTER went onto an equine forum and posted a long sad message about the death of her mom.
I can only hope that “mom” used her daughters login and password and pretended to be her.
That 16 year old girl is either a total wack-job like her mom, or she’s going to have a hard time growing up and realizing what crazy/insane/loser parents she had. I feel sorry for her. To be born into that. Just. Wow.
I have seen people use their children to harass others and if it really was her daughter, that wouldn’t surprise me in the least. People like her have no conscience and rarely, if ever, take any responsibility for thier behavior. It will be more lies and excuses and never their fault.
Folks – I am an American who spent 24 yrs abroad. The Hague, The Netherlands was my home base. I had grown up with horses, but when I met my first Friesians – I fell under the spell of the finest breed on the planet. I’m not a nut bucket/silly assed/ego driven horsey female. I am an old gal who had enough experience with horses to know super fine when I saw it.
Friesian horses have exceptional minds (far better than most people), their beauty dazzles the most experienced horsepeople, they have the biggest hearts and the kindest natures and though baroque – they are ballerinas in the show ring. Now being old enough to have outgrown ego that leads one to the show ring to win all the time, I focus on HORSE CARE and my husband and I live very quietly and happily with two outstanding and Noble Equines who were born two weeks apart in Dutch villages that were almost in sight of each other. Our geldings (Sters/Stars) traveled via KLM Airlines to the U.S., as two year olds. I allowed my boys to be shown a few times and the pair stunned the crowds, won all the blues and crystal, neck ribbons and trophies, etc, but not being the type to put my horses at risk and with good care our only focus – we never showed again. So say what you will about Friesian owners – and for some this might right true – do yourselves a favor and get to know one of these magnificent gentle giants. They don’t come better.
Note: The Dutch are appalled by the cross breeding that goes on in this country. And so am I. I am a purist, where horses are concerned. This nut bucket/ding bat your column focused on is only one of her kind that the horse world has way more than its share of. Too many who take on horses are crazier than f’ing loons. This is a heart break for the horses who fall into such bad hands.
And what’s-her-name wins the NUT-BUCKET PRIZE OF THE DECADE! Where the hell do we find them?????
Look, if any American tries to say that we do a better job with breeding than the Europeans – uh, they’re wrong. We have no quality control in this country and we breed everything to everything. While occasionally something good comes out of it, I’m pretty sure that it’s far more common for something bad to come out of it.
Refer back to my 2007 column about Friesian crossbreds – I did find a nice one. One.
http://fuglyblog.com/?p=22
In response to fhotd comment: Refer back to my 2007 column about Friesian crossbreds – I did find a nice one. One.
I don’t think you looked very hard. I know of many. Showing successfully, even at the FEI levels. Some of them aren’t promoted as Friesian crosses – they may be AWS or PHR or Half Arab, or some other generic label. It is easy to find examples of crap horses of any breed – get on Craigslist or Dreamhorse and look at all the horses under $2500. Odds are, most are not of great quality – you get what you pay for. And yes, there are delusional people who think any black hairy horse cross is worth a lot of money. Whether they are “Warmbloods”, or Arabians, or Quarter Horses, or Friesian/Thoroughbred crosses or whatever, there is good, and there is bad. But there are also lovely examples of Warmbloods, and Arabians, and Quarter Horses, and Friesian Crosses. We breeders don’t have control over what other breeders do, but there are responsible breeders in this area. And there are registries, such as Heritage Horse, who promote inspections and competition results to help develop responsible breeding practices.
It really isn’t responsible to imply that the low grade horses are representative of all the horses. By the way, I don’t disagree, in general, with some of your conclusions of the horses you wrote of in that blog – I just don’t believe that you looked hard to find something of quality. Many of us don’t bother advertising much on those sites because, well, look at what is on the site, who wants to be associated with that?
Here’s a lovely Friesian/Morgan cross. I don’t know how much he was, but I think he was in the $3500-$5000 range judging by the other horses at the farm he came from. He’s been working on his collection a lot, and has the power/lift from the Friesian side to drive from behind and some of the lightness from the Morgan side which really compliments it. I adore this horse and would have been happy finding one like him when I was shopping, even if I love my OTTB more!
Fugly said….. “Look, if any American tries to say that we do a better job with breeding than the Europeans – uh, they’re wrong. We have no quality control in this country and we breed everything to everything.”
Venn diagram unnecessary. This IS a false blanket statement. Fugs, there are lots of excellent U.S. breeders out there — equally as good as the Europeans. And as far as Warmbloods go, there is no longer any need for DQ’s or Showjumpers to import horses from Europe. Most of these horses ARE bred through U.S. affiliates of European registries (KWPN – NA, GOV, AHS, among them) and the U.S. now holds it’s own 70-day stallion tests, http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/70DayStallionTest2009.htm
To imply that ALL U.S. breeders have no discipline, vision, or inspections is just totally, utterly wrong.
These folks bred Zenith, one of the horses that Rodrigo Pessoa rides: http://www.sportingchancefarm.com/
This breeder from Vermont bred a horse that was bronze at the WORLD young horse championships (Bundeschampionate) in Germany, and then the horse sold for a record price at auction there, $400,000 euros:
http://www.huntingtonfarm.com/statesman.html
Mary Alice Malone and Iron Spring Farm, hands down, breed some of the best horses in the WORLD:
http://www.ironspringfarm.com/
I could go on and on. The grass is NOT ALWAYS greener on the other side of the …. pond. Many, many of us here in the States have taken a lesson or two from the Europeans, and are now breeding amazing, world class horses!
Many of us in the Friesian world feel duped and saddened by this – Genevive was obviously a bit “off center” but she did a lot for the breed. She owned several approved Friesian stallions – and there are only about 100 Dutch approved Friesian stallions world-wide, so this means high quality horses, none of that “Friesian Sporthorse is better then Friesian Sport Horse” crap, but honestly top quality horses based on inspections and long-standing Dutch breeding standards. She helped start up IFSHA and threw a lot of money into it (granted, money that might not have been honestly earned), she provided her breeding knowledge to small breeders everywhere, had a good understanding of bloodlines and breeding. Many small breeders produced better quality horses because of her willingness to provide suggestions, not just of her own stallions, but of others. The “crosses” she bred are high quality horses – some of them are showing in Open Dressage at the FEI levels, others are showing on the IFSHA circuit and winning titles. NONE of them were registered with the registry mentioned by the original post, she had no interest in the claims of such a registry.
Having said all that – yeah, she was crazy as a loon. And it was obvious even before this whole scandal that she was crazy – but with moments of brilliance (not unusual in crazy people, huh?), and with good understanding of breeding. Do Baroque horses attract CRAZY? I would venture further and say any “romantic breed” attracts crazy. And any breed can be romantic – either based on hair, color, or dress up (think lots of silver tack and fancy duds and big belt buckles). Go to any breed show circuit – Arabian, Quarter Horse, Andalusian, Morgan, Friesian, Saddlebred, and I guarantee you will run into a high number of egotistical, crazy, more-money-then-sense people. The breed show circuits allow small fish to become big fish (in a small pond). On the other hand, talk to owners and breeders who are out on the open show circuit (dressage, eventing, jumpers, etc) and you’ll find the people are more centered. Well, as centered as a person can be and still own horses – reality is, owning horses is a form of craziness. Really, think about it.
And high money = high craziness – in any discipline. We see more then enough scandals in every discipline. Look at the crazy lawsuits involving movie stars and rock stars kids in the hunter world. Look at the scandals involving falsifying bloodlines in the Morgan world, look at the scandals involving soring in the Saddlebred world, heck, you don’t even hear about some of the crap that goes on in the horse world. Reality is, money, not Baroque horses, addles a person’s mind.
There are many sane, lovely Baroque horse owners. Many lovely Friesians and Friesian crosses that are great riding horses, competing quietly and happily with their owners in dressage, combined driving, even eventing. Or just happily going on trails and group rides and parades with their owners. These are not the horses that make it to Fugly, but this is the majority of the owners.
‘” Look at the crazy lawsuits involving movie stars and rock stars kids in the hunter world.”
What lawsuits? You brought it up, now I want to hear about it!
Look up Springsteen or Selleck, both fairly recent celebrity horse lawsuits. Please note, I am by no means defending De Montremare (or whatever her name is now), just pointing out crazy stuff is not limited to Baroque horses. Big money seems to make big crazy, irregardless of how much hair the horse has. I am saddened and disgusted by what happened with this situation. Am also pretty sure daughter is as crazy as parents – it is genetic, just as we shouldn’t breed crazy horses because that begets more crazy horses.
I googled both names and wow! They were really considering buying an $800,000 horse for their daughter? Damn, I was so happy as a child when my dad came home from the auction with my $25 Appy (batshit crazy too, he helped me perfect my “emergency dismount” as we fondly call it). BTW- I know the general opinion is that she was a credit to the breed, other than the whole faking her death thing, but is it just coincidence that a loose pronunciation of her name sounds like mount-yer-mare and she is a krazy kolor breeder? Maybe I am just having too much fun with this.
My thoughts exactly. What insane prices for a show horse. If I ever bought something like that, it would be sure to colic and die the second it stepped off the trailer at my farm.
Steven Spielberg paid $850K for Rumba, a big-time hunter derby winner, for his 12 year old daughter. She competes him in Children’s Hunters classes and they appear to be having a blast.
Jessie Springsteen and Hannah Selleck have worked their butts off to get where they are. No doubt it does help to have access to virtually unlimited funds, but money doesn’t replace hard work.
EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS?
and I assume this is a GELDING?
WHOA.
I had no idea. Literally. I did not know there was such a thing as a 850K gelding.
Really?
OMG.
I heard it was 1.3m for Rumba, and he and John French were the first pair to score a 400 (each of four judges giving a perfect score) in the Hunter Derby Final. Jessica Springsteen has worked her ass of for years, won the Maclay, and is still winning in the Big Eq. She aims be a grand prix rider as well as Hannah Sellick – they are the future of the sport of showjumping in this country. Besides, has anyone priced dressage horses lately? Wahajama was sold for DM 5,000,000 as a four year old in 1998! What do y’all think Morlands Totilas cost?
#1 point – I give those girls credit. You do NOT win the Maclay because you are a celebrity’s kid. Sure it helps to have a killer awesome horse but if you’re good enough to win at that level, you could probably put in a good ride on a $5,000 horse, too. You are clearly not some princess on a packer, being carted around the ring. For those unfamiliar with those classes, they make them jump with no stirrups – big jumps. You can NOT do that if you are not a good rider. You will eat dirt, rich or not.
#2 point – Clearly I don’t get out enough
I really had no idea geldings were selling for that kind of cash.
You certainly have to be able to ride to win at Maclay, but you have to have serious cash to cough up just to be a Maclay contender. Sure these kids can ride anything, but I think it has more to do with the thousand-dollar bills they stuff in their boots to keep their feet warm and less to do with the concept of them being little equestrian prodigies. I bet I’d be a damn good rider too if I could afford a hundred thousand dollars worth of lessons
Sick isn’t it? Personally, I do not think it was wise to buy the nicest hunter in the country (if not the world – he was imported after all) for a 13 yr old. What does she have to look forward to? Having said that, at a certain level you have to pay to play; and since equestrian activities like H/J and Dressage in this country are not supported by sponsorships or the government, it becomes a (very) rich person’s sport. It is amazing that our USET athletes do as well as they do without the powerful funding that countries like Germany, the Netherlands and the UK enjoy.
Don’t get me started on the ponies…
You DO have to pay to play, again, money will not fill in the gaps where hard work is absent. The 2009 Maclay winner, Zazou Hoffman, is not rich. She won a riding scholarship (the Ronnie Mutch Scholarship) and moved from California to Vermont to work with a BNT (Missy Clark of North Run). She has blogged about her experience as a working student there – she was up every morning at oh-dark-thirty to be at the barn and spent the better part of the day there. The horse she won on, Ivy, is a 6-figure horse, but it’s Missy’s, not hers.
Good for them, it’s nice to hear about celebrity kids working hard at something other than getting a shot of their who-ha featured on Perez Hilton while they are stumbling out of a limo for an after party. I just cannot fathom being able to spend that kind of money on a horse. I’m just a poor ole country girl ridin’ around on an $800 fugly. He’s worth a million to me, though
Amen. At least $800K didn’t get snorted up her nose!
I get violently ANGRY at the amount of money wasted on drugs that could go toward something constructive. I don’t care if that “something” is a cure for cancer or rescuing horses but for god’s sake it just SICKENS me that it gets wasted on something 100% destructive and STUPID.
There was a little shetland/welsh (I think? He was the size of a shetland, but refined like a welsh.) champion hunter pony at a barn I used to muck stalls at for the privilege of lessons that was purchased for $100K.
For that much money a horse had better fucking be able to do my calculus homework, ‘s all I’m sayin’.
LOL! I hear you!
Although I’m sure it was just made of cute.
Oh, he was. I did portrait of him for his owner when she outgrew him, but I lost my scan of it in a hard drive crash.
Though I admit that most of my fondness for him was based on the fact that he only poo’d and whizzed in one corner of his stall, so it only took me 30 seconds to muck it out.
“On the other hand, talk to owners and breeders who are out on the open show circuit (dressage, eventing, jumpers, etc) and you’ll find the people are more centered.”
I don’t know that I’d say THAT! I think there are sane people in all types of horse competition/backyard pets/etc. But there are certainly nuts, too… I know I will get plenty of people looking down their noses at me because I DARE show an ex racehorse in dressage. Personally, I don’t care – he was born for it even if he has had two previous careers (racing and eventing.) I think crazy surrounds money many times, and there’s certainly money in non-breed showing as well.
I, too, was wondering just how one fakes their own death. That cannot be an easy task to accomplish and I’d be willing to put money on the fact that she even had help from her (equally as) twisted friends/family, even if they deny it. It will be really interesting to see how this story unfolds!
Off topic but I could really use the help:
I am desperately trying to get into the thoroughbred industry and am looking for a summer internship/job/working student position at a farm or track this summer. I have utilized sources such as Taylor Made, KEMI, Y&G, been to Keeneland/TTC, and am making phone calls, all to no aval. The job I had lined up fell through yesterday leaving me high and dry. I was wondering if any (thoroughbred oriented) Fuglites had a position or knew anyone with a position for the summer. I am willing to travel to any part of the US (Canada will also be considered) for a hotwalking/groom position. I’d LOVE to learn how to gallop as I’d like to become a trainer once I am finished with college but I will take what I can get at this point. If you or anyone you know have a lead for me, please email me at chatfield@smwc.edu. Thank you!!
Now I’m reading there is all sorts of chat about the fact that she was always unpleasant/aggressive/weird and that loads of folks have supposedly known she was alive for months. (Odd how the IFSHA still has no comment – Another case of an association putting its collective head in the sand when a bad trainer/breeder is outed.)
Even if she was mentally ill and felt compelled to fake her own death it’s not like she’s a backyard breeder living with Ozark Otis living in a shack in some bayou. Her husband is a pathologist with decades of experience and a high profile position.
I can’t even imagine how dysfunctional that family must be for him not to get his wife into treatment instead of helping her fake her death, screwing up their kid and no doubt tanking his entire career. Ironically I’m sure he will be stripped of his license long before the IFSHA pulls her memorial trophy and posts an explanation.
And is he the kid’s dad? Did he encourage or even actively ask his own daughter to perpetuate this fraud?
Whoa.
Sometimes I really feel like I need to present a venn diagram with my post for some of you:
Just because type of horse A attracts type of person B does not mean that is ALL it attracts.
Obviously, some of you are perfectly sane. But it is a fact that whenever I encounter a story like Genevieve’s, dollars to donuts the person is going to be involved with one of the following:
1. Friesians
2. Gypsy Vanners
3. Something else with a lot of mane. I.E. Arabians
Whereas every time I encounter a story where someone is more just shady and evil in a business sense – sane, but rotten – they are likely to be involved with a stock breed or Thoroughbreds.
I am fairly certain that if I made a chart from the beginning of this blog, we could show this pattern. I am not picking on anyone’s breed in particular, or anyone’s discipline, as you should all know by now. I’m merely stating that every breed has its cross to bear and fluffy horses tend to get delusional women whose don’t live in reality and whose web sites includes a lot of talk about their dreams and magikal horses and associated claptrap.
So, if you’re a sane person with fluffy horses, obviously this does not apply to you so why would you be offended by it?
I agree completely with you! I love my Arabs and my Arabian trainer friends and clients… but some of the nuttiest people around are the super wealthy Arabian owners. Romantic breeds (Arabian, Friesian, Andalusian, etc) tend to attract the crazies. It’s true. The horses look like Barbie horses, or a painting in a kid’s book, the shows are exciting, the clients get to wear fancy outfits to show, and the trainers make a big to-do about providing full service care to the clients. All of these factors contribute to wealthy beginners and oddballs jumping right in. Go to Arabian Nationals and you will see more, fur, jewels, and glitter than you could ever imagine. This is what the owners wear just walking around the barns and watching classes.
…Crap. My trainer and I are hopeful (my trainer more confident than I am) that my stallion will do well enough at Sport Horse Regionals to make it worthwhile to drag him to Sport Horse Nationals since it’s on the west coast for the last time in the foreseeable future. It was hard enough to get my husband to agree to potentially spending $5k to attend one show, even if it’s Nationals. Well, the folks there will just have to be happy with me dressing in work-casual!
I’ve never understood why people dress in furs and jewels and Prada and Gabbana for a horse show. The emphasis should be on the horse, not the owner’s money.
Of course, this is coming from somebody who has budgeted carefully to have her horse at a top local trainer and provide said horse with all new tack and top feed and supplements and chiropractic visits…Huh. I finally see why I have no diamonds or Prada or Gabbana…
I have a tall, slender, blonde friend who’s done Arabs her whole life, and is always asked to be a Trophy Girl for the Egyptian Event. (She’s a real character in her own right, as is her mother.)
She loves the EE because of all the over-the-top Middle Eastern oil money…. sheikhs walking around with 3 or 4 covered-up wives trotting along behind them….
They always ask her because 1) she looks really good in a formal gown; 2) she knows how to be unobtrusive and ornamental even around Krazy Halter Horses without getting stepped on.
A relative of mine bred a nice colt who was showing in the Congress Reining Futurity, so we all went, and kept running into RICH Italians.
When you’re around the Superrich, whether they’re classy and kind to everyone, or on their own plane of Wealthness, you can just TELL.
Didn’t someone post a story somewhere about how Queen Elizabeth was at a huge show, and a driving team went nuts, and she just jumped into the ring and grabbed ‘em, and told her horrified security detail to do something useful, like “cut the bloody traces” or something?
Saddlebreds: they attract Shiny People, too.
It’s true. Even with the super classy super wealthy owners, you can just tell. They usually have big hair, big jewels, and big fur.
I remember once catching part of a documentary about the Queen at Balmoral, where she rarely allows the press.
What sticks in my head is this image of the reigning monarch of England moseying across the Balmoral park on a fugly roan grade pony, maybe fourteen hands.
I can’t help but think she was driving past a livestock auction, saw it, felt sorry for it, and bought it for a few hundred quid. It just did NOT belong in a royal stable. But it was cute!
Fugly, You could have provided the entire blog thread without the paragraph below and still got your point across. This comes across as a personal opinion (not fact) and a shot at baroque breeds/owners. Without this stement, I would have been with you again 100%.
“FHOTD back in: See, I tell you, there is something with all those baroque breeds that is just a magnet for crazy. Gaited horses attract obese people who want to ride the crap out of them as 2 year olds, and baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women! I’m not saying you’re all crazy, but folks, Friesians and Vanners have a magnetic force field that attracts loonies like Wal-Mart attracts people with interesting fashion sense.”
This is a blog – it’s all about personal opinion (and obesity+horses is a TOUCHY subject, so I’m not surprised some got offended, though I am more surprised people think fugs means all baroque owners are crazy prententious nutters… overreact much?) Many of these fuglies posted about are obviously thought by some to be magnificent beauties, well, fugly disagrees (personal opinion, see?)
I agree that horses in general attract crazies, they do. I’ve seen it across all breeds. However, fugly is right that there are often particular stereotypes for each breed – asshats in the stock horses or TBs, obese people for gaited horses (that’s pretty understandable, they are a much smoother ride which can make for a win/win situation for both horse and rider – if they aren’t getting ridden as yearlings), barbie fantasy types for the hairy or baroque breeds (though I really don’t like Gypsy Vanners getting lumped in as baroque… they are sweet furry cart horses, not really similar to PREs or even Friesians).
Anyway, the point was that some breeds seem to attract their own particular kind of crazy, not that all heavy people riding gaited horses are evil abusers or that all people that own baroque breeds are insane and pretentious… Sheesh. As fugs said, she needs to draw a venn diagram for everybody so you can better understand what she means – these crazies make up a particular SUBset of owners of specific breeds not the ENTIRE set.
Ooooh, if you go to any Midwestern trail-riding destination, you will see a TON of dirtneck fat men in stained T-shirts with their giant guts hanging out, and filthy Cooter caps, just HANGING on the mouths of their poor TWH, Missouri Foxtrotter, Rocky Mtn. Horse or some godawful cross thereof, leaning back in a FABULOUS La-Z-Boy seat with their heels at the horse’s shoulders.
I’m fat, I’m a decent rider, I am conscientious of my horse’s well-being, and I am working on losing some ##, no big deal.
But there’s something about the gaited horses that DO attract some of the nastiest willful ignorance I’ve ever seen, at least at the low end, BYB part of the market.
Sometimes fluffy-enough horses can make sane people not-so-sane any more. My own Arabian is a classic, old-fashioned little cutie pie with super dished face, thick mane tail and forelock, and fancy little mannerisms that include much prancing and head tossing. My barn owner is fairly immune, being a long-time QH guy, but his wife – the family breadwinner and generally pretty cool to horses – when she met my Lexie, said, “She looks just like the pictures we used to draw in our notebooks in third grade!” and now this very rational, responsible woman HAS to give Lexie a cookie every morning when she leaves for work, for fear that Lexie will pout. No fooling, she really does this, and says this, and believes it. Lexie wins over yet another willing slave.
You can’t argue with cute, can you?
Research Friesians and get ready to put your thinking caps on, for lengthy and complicated reading.
If this hooty HOOTY BIRD WOMAN we are discussing had even one approved Friesian stallion – she was in hock to her eye balls or way too rich to fake her death! And no Friesian stallion is going to maintain his FHANA approval (NO CROSS BREEDING OF FRIESIANS ALLOWED), if cross bred. The cross bred off spring aren’t high dollar horses. Please research the facts. Those who have the very limited number of APPROVED FRIESIANS STALLIONS must take great care in the quality of the mares they accept for breeding to their prized stallions, because off spring are judged, too, and if the tykes do not measure up – sorry but your huge investment in a breeding stallion has just been lost (if the plan was to make a mint on your horse’s back). So the Dutch take incredible care to maintain VERY HIGH STANDARDS. I could write on endlessly, but would be exhausted from putting forth the effort.
If the breed has suffered, this would have come about at the hands of America’s own nut bucket breeders who pay no attention to what they’re doing. They would be shot out of their saddles, in Holland.
Now for a special treat for those who do not like big black fuzzy horses (our boys attended their Keurings – strict Friesian horse judging), in this same arena. Prepare to be dazzled. As you can see from this audience – the Dutch do LOVE their Friesians………
And you are going to L-U-V this. Just be prepared to listen to a one minute introduction, in Dutch.
http://www.businessinvideo.nl/index.php?p=647
News – FHANA – Friesian Horse Association of North America
To view the classic Friesian train that will be performed during the Opening Ceremonies of the World Equestrian Games go to: …
Thanks for the video. It was wonderful to watch. What impressed me the most was there was very little if any tail wringing. They obviously love what they are doing.
What a beautiful video. Those horses are stunning… I just wish that I could see more of them. LOL. Of course, I would LOVE to clip off the feathers, shave a bridlepath and shorten the manes. I know that I just made every Friesian person on here cringe, but that is the first thing that I think of when I see these amazing horses. It’s all in good fun. Just like how my warmblood-y friends are appalled that my Arabs don’t have pulled manes and I’, appalled at the look of a pulled mane.
The horses were gorgeous, but I couldn’t help thinking how much work must be required to keep those long manes, well, long and flowing. And I thought the feathers poking out of the leg wraps was kind of funny.
In case you missed it, she wasn’t said to be cross-breeding Friesian stallions. (By the way, it’s only FHANA that bans crossbreeding – if she had wanted to crossbreed one that was still overseas and registered with the FPS, she would not have had to worry about running afoul of a ban.) She was using a Lusitano stallion, Saphiro, and crossing him to Friesian mares. Many of the mares used were ster mares – recognized as being especially high quality by the FPS.
I’m not 100% sure on this, but I think that you can cross-breed approved stallions… you cannot, however, cross-breed FHANA mares without losing their registration. This is a quandry for me, because, based on Genevieve’s horses, I actually want to cross-breed my Friesian mare to him. I think I just won’t tell anybody where my new magical horse came from, so nobody has to know…
Sophie, you’re not going to lose your mare’s registration. Perhaps that was something that FHANA enforced years ago, but they don’t do it now.
FHANA will ban stallions if they find out about it. They don’t always find out about it, though.
If I may make a suggestion, if you’re serious about wanting to cross your mare to Saphiro on the strength of Genevieve’s “blondes” (and I apologize if what I’m about to say is a total ‘duh, that’s what I was going to do’) – maybe research some other Lusitano stallions as well, and see if there is one that might be a better match for your specific mare. The blondes ARE awesome, but I don’t think Saphiro is necessarily he only possible Lusitano stallion capable of creating that good cross, and I’ve heard that his personality may leave something to be desired. (Haven’t met him personally, so maybe I was told wrong and he’s a love bug, but I know of one of his offspring – NOT one of the Friesian crosses – who is just untrustworthy, and it was suggested that this maybe wasn’t a surprise due to the sire.) The blondes were sweet, but I have trouble imagining a Friesian cross that isn’t (assuming the Friesian parent was of good quality and not someone’s schizo backyard experiment).
What I really want is a buckskin…
But I have talked about breeding a horse for the past 11 years of owning horses, and I still haven’t done it. I do plan on breeding her to a nice dressage-type Friesian stallion once, and crossing her to a Lusitano once, and keeping both babies. Good to know about Saphiro’s temperament, because my mare is a difficult horse, and I certainly don’t need a more difficult foal than she was. Scary thought, indeed. My dressage trainer has some very nice Lusitano stallions that she imported from Brazil–I may choose to breed to one of hers. I really do like the cross, though, if both the Friesian and the Lusitano/Andalusian are good quality horses. And I hate to brag, but my difficult Friesian mare is definitely good quality–I just wish she were a bit more mellow.
Wonderful video! And I enjoyed hearing the Dutch — can’t afford to visit my relatives over there any more
Wow, some story, and yeah, I agree, what a book it would make!
I have a crossbred Friesian/QH gelding. I have seen numerous ones that are just so ugly. But mine is very pretty. Why did I buy him? I probably will never be able to buy a purebred Friesian or Andalusian. So I got a half of one. I was very, very lucky but don’t recommend most people do this. He’s an awesome boy and can’t wait to get riding him this year. He’s the baby in my little photo.
I’m sorry that so many of you are against cross breeding. You aren’t seeing the effects of small closed gene pools as quickly as a dog or cat breeder, but the genetic defects popping up are the indicators telling you to bring in new blood. The smaller the gene pool, the less diversity in genetics is available. In the beginning, this is a good thing. You weed out the genes responsible for height, color, etc, you don’t want. In a few generations (no, one cross never makes a breed. The definition of breed includes having uniformity in the offspring, and F1 and F2 crosses are too diverse to do this. Eggs, omelets, etc, this takes time, horses, and several breeders working toward a goal), you are getting the foals you want most of the time, but as you cross related individuals to related individuals (How many QHs go back to King? What sires and dams in your breed do most of the studbook go back to? Sires are the only ones that can pass on the Y chromosome, how much diversity in sires do you REALLY have?), you start doubling up on things that are harmless on their own but problematic together. You don’t have unrelated individuals to outcross to, since you can’t go outside the studbook and you’ll lose your phenotype with other lines. Welcome to the other side of the bell curve, where there are dueling banjos. Friesians, Norwegian Fjords, Icelandic Horses, etc, there are so many breeds who are more concerned with purity than phenotype. Quality outcrosses can only help a breed maintain phenotype and healthy genetic diversity, and it helps keep the purebreds around since they’re needed for the good outcrosses. No matter your breed, there’s a similar breed out there that can be crossed with successful results. Most of us aren’t stuck on islands with no postal service, or with 19th century notions of familial purity. Don’t be afraid of outcrosses!
Well said, aficat.
I think that those individuals who are “purity obsessed” are possibly gun shy to outcrossing because of all the back yard crap they’ve seen out there. But what you and I are referring to is a controlled, well planned introduction of outside genes that are complimentary to the breed being “refreshed”. The goal is NOT to create a NEW breed. We want the breed to look essentially the same as it did prior to any new introductions. We think in generations, not individual crosses. Do I care that initial outcrosses are not registerable with the original registry? No. I have other reputable registry options. But I do hope that, someday, perhaps, they may want to see the results of my efforts. Perhaps it would help to quell their fears.
Breed registries are highly political entities, and the FPS is no exception. In many cases, change is very slow. In the case of Friesians, it is fairly well known that the Dutch are very set in their ways, and resist change of any kind. But recently, even the Dutch are acknowledging that genetic issues exist in the Friesian breed. For them, admitting this is a very difficult thing indeed! But it shows that, despite the difficulty, they are willing to put the health of their horses before politics and tradition. They are taking baby steps in the right direction, but at least they’re steps. They’ve been working with (real) geneticists, and DNA tests are under development for dwarfism and hydrocephalus. But while I feel these tests will become an important and valuable tool for breeders, the tests alone will not eradicate genetic disorders, or halt the increased inbreeding. Without the introduction of new blood, the FPS will be playing a never ending, extremely expensive game of “Whack a Mole” as more genetic problems will continue to emerge.
To Bo Oliver — I’m guessing you likely speak Dutch? You may find this video interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9JY_7TvKk
It’s an interview with a vet in Friesland who is basically sick and tired of seeing Friesian horses suffer and die at a rate of 10 times more than the other breed he commonly works on – Dutch Warmbloods.
I’m not against all cross breeding. However, when cross breeding is not regulated by a breed registry (a legit one…) it needs to be done VERY carefully. If you plan on crossing a Friesian with a QH and will keep it forever or get it trained extremely well and promise to sell it to another home that will keep it forever, I’m fine with that. Sometimes backyard (backyard meaning not registerable with a legit registry) crosses are a very reasonable way to get a lovely horse without paying 20K for a 2 year old. Some people can handle the month to month costs that come with raising a horse but can’t shell out a large lump sum for one.
Unfortunately, many more breeders are not careful with their crosses, and that’s why I think the majority of “cross” breeding should be overseen by a registry like many of the WB registries do in Europe – they breed for a type, and all breeding stock must be approved for the offspring to be eligible for registration. Should the Friesian registries allow some different stock in to clean up the gene pool? Perhaps. I’m no Friesian expert though. This can’t happen properly without some registry approval, however. Without that, you’re not improving the Friesian gene pool, you’re just creating crosses that might be extremely useful but aren’t recognized by the main registry, and therefore cannot help improve the Friesian breed.
Because of the lack of approval restrictions in the states, we have a much bigger problem with this. I so wish arabs, QHs, ASBs, etc had required stallion and mare approvals. We would likely have much sounder animals with a wider variety of career possibilities. This is why the U.S. has a hard time competing with European breeders. There are some very nice WB breeders developing in the U.S. that have all of their horses approved, but the rest of the breeds need some help…
FreckledWonder — The problem with having the FPS Friesian registry oversee the introduction of outside blood is that they just won’t do it — even if it’s the right thing to do for the health of the horses. It’s all wrapped up in politics. Many of the stallions owners are powerful members of the organization. To allow a measured amount of outside blood would mean fewer bookings to THEIR stallions. The supposed ban on crossbreeding is for much more than simply keeping the precious bloodlines from becoming “tainted”. It’s to give mare owners no choice but to choose from (and pay a stud fee to) a small pool of approved stallions. It becomes a monopoly for the stallion owners.
The Friesian was “type” long before it was a “breed”. As a breed, it is slowly becoming genetically stagnant, and is showing more and more evidence of doing so. As a type, it CAN be improved, whether it has papers from the mother registry or not. The key is borrow the breeding methods of the “type” registries — the Warmbloods — and choose stallions that are approved, are compatible, and may even improve the Friesians weaknesses. Offspring of these pairings may not be registerable with the FPS, but they can be judged on their own merit as potential sporthorses via USDF sport horse breeding classes. Say, for example, I were to bring several horses to Dressage at Devon that happen to strongly resemble purebreds, and all of them score higher in “sport suitability” than the purebred Friesians do. Have I NOT improved the Friesian riding “type” in this case?
Just trying to make a point, that’s all….
It’s a GOOD point, one that needs to be made.
I believe it was the Victorians who got so stuck on Purity of Breeds, all the way up to PEOPLE. It’s kind of a Malthusian idea, isn’t it?
The European registries (AHEM, Government Controlled, for the Gubmint Haters out there) who maintain open studbooks to approved stallions etc. have the right idea. Even the AQHA in its dim little mind probably did the right thing when TBs were allowed for Appendix breeding, though I dearly love SOMETHING about the Foundation horses for some reason. Morgans: wow, it’s amazing that they’ve remained a pretty good breed, and date back to ONE stallion. Is this because of the University of Vermont’s efforts? Or? I have no idea, so…. ?
Looks like Friesians might go the way of certain messed-up dog breeds if the Dutch registry doesn’t keep working on the genetic issues…
All that being said, I’m for preserving breeds, but sometimes you’ve got to infuse some new blood. CAREFULLY, SKILLFULLY, and AGREED-UPON by the keepers of that breed. After all, we didn’t used to have “breeds,” but merely “types,” aka “what is this horse/dog/sheep/cow/chicken good for, and how do we make some more”
Well said!
Yup, you can indeed start with a very small breed sample number of individuals and breed up a genetically viable, strong, breed from there – BUT you MUST CULL RELIGIOUSLY. That mean, at least in sheep, sending a good 2/3 of your lambs to market each and every breeding season and NEVER letting them reproduce. Just go research on the Livestock Breeds Conservancy (or whatever it is called – it’s late and I’m ready to eat) – for the proper way to “recover” a breed with genetic diversity but starting from a small sample. Was done with several breeds in the U.S., the Shetlands coming to immediate mind, then the Black Welsh Mountain. When I got out of sheep, my entire SMALL flock of 11 went to Canada – because their breeding program had not had an infusion of new blood since 1970-something. I NEVER had more than 20 of the BWM at any one time, but the flock I sent had representation of each and every line in the United States, including one of only nine RR rams ever in the U.S.. I also had some fresh outcrossing due to a fellow breeder using AI – NOT an easy thing with sheep.
Yes, you can start from a small sample of individuals, but it has to be done wisely.
Crappy Harlequinn romance novel meets General Hospital. You know she didn’t fake her own death, Helena kidnapped her to be an unwilling bride for Stavros. Then Casey the Space Alien (with Robin’s help) rounded up all her horses and zapped them with a magic crystal that made them all rare palomino Fresians. The crystal also controls the weather, that another reason Helena kidnapped her, to lure out Casey and Robin. While tracking Ceaser Fasion, Luke stumbled across Mme. Krazy Kolor and though maybe he would rescue her, you know, since Laura is in France and Tracy is perpetually pissed at him. Luke brings her back to PC, but shit hits the fan when she reveals she is one of Edward’s grandaughters and tries to take over ELQ. Ned comes back to town and runs her off. Jax falls in love with her, which pisses Carly off to no end. Carly goes crying to Jason as her husband runs off with Mme. Krazy Kolor. Her and Jax decide to run off to Australia because Lady Jane is sick, and move all the horses to a warehouse on the docks. They deliver the horses to the wrong warehouse for shipping, and once Sonny finds out Jaxs is involved he starts having flashbacks about Brenda (because his medication stopped working) and takes a hit out on all the horses. The ones that survive are worth millions. Diane represents Sonny in court and Alexis is the D.A. I don’t know where the Webbers fit in to all of this.
I know SOMEBODY on here watches GH and got all this, to everyone else I apologize.
It also says she misrepresented her lineage, I wonder which royal family she was claiming to be related to? She sounds like some crazy nut that that got in so deep with her lies she actually started to believe them. Maybe she is kinda like that guy Lifetime just did a movie about, you know- the one who passed himself off as a Rockafellar?
“FHOTD back in: See, I tell you, there is something with all those baroque breeds that is just a magnet for crazy. Gaited horses attract obese people who want to ride the crap out of them as 2 year olds, and baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women! I’m not saying you’re all crazy, but folks, Friesians and Vanners have a magnetic force field that attracts loonies like Wal-Mart attracts people with interesting fashion sense.”
Fugly– A lot of things you write are “right on”– BUT I hate it when you start with the generalizations. and OOPS- you’ve done it again with the above statement.
Now I can’t comment on the generalizations about baroque breeds, Friesians and Vanners attracting pretentious crazy women or loonies, but I take exception to your remark about gaited horses attracting obese people wha want to ride the crap out of them as 2 year olds. First– the only gaited horse people I know who ride the crap out of 2 year olds are the show people, and I don’t think there is a higher percentage of obese people showing gaited horses than other non-gaited breeds.
Most of us who use gaited horses for fun and pleasure are content to wait until the horse is physically mature so that we will get years of use and avoid any stress-related breakdowns. The show segment of any gaited breed is a very tiny slice of the gaited horse-owning public (that’s [probably true for non-gaited breeds, too)– but I admit they are the most noticable– after all that is what the show world is all about– “Look at me and this fantastic horse I could afford to buy at a horribly inflated price from the big name trainer.”
Bottom line– I don’t think that gaited horses attract obese riders any more than non-gaited horses do. I’ve seen plenty of heavies riding QHs at local sorting nights– one lady so heavy that she uses a step ladder and the help of two men to gain her seat on a little 14.2 mare — who is about 10 years old– And actually more Americans are heavier now than at any time in our history.
I do think that probably more older riders are attracted to the comfort of gaited breeds– and since most of us tend to weigh a bit more in our 50s than we did in our 20s, then maybe in general more of us are “heavy” but I take exception to the term “obese.” I have ridden walkers or gaited ASBs almost all my life — and yes I sure weigh more now than I did at any other time of my life– but I also have injury and age-related health issues that I didn’t have when I was younger. One thing I can say for sure though– obese now or not– I have NEVER even been on the back of a 2 year old horse (even when I weighed only 97 lbs.), much less ridden one into the ground.
As for the “fad” breeds or breeds-du-jour, I think they seem to attract more of the loonies among us because they are de facto magnets for attention seekers– they have that “Look at me!” factor in spades. As for Friesians, I have always thought they were very attractive animals, and they come in one of my favorite horse colors, but they trot, so I’ve never really wanted to ride one, much less own one.
As for the crawoman that is the subject of this blog today– it’s been my experience that money is an awfully big attractant for the greedy and just plain wicked– and fad breeds often bring big money. There are con-people out to take advantage of others in almost any segment of the market place– why would the horse world, especially the “status symbol breed” segment be immune to that trend?
Just remember $am and the CBER debacle– the dollar amounts were different but the lies, lies, lies and more lies were there just the same.
Holly Molley we are rocking and rolling in San Diego . But still have internet but no phones
She was obviously crazy, but hard to deny she owned these approved Friesian stallions: Bonne 341, Anne 340, Wicher 334, Melle 331. FOUR of them – you can’t really fault the quality of the horses, just the quality of the owner’s mind. She also owned many quality purebred mares. Her purebred horses were inspected and registered with FHANA. While many agree she was always an odd duck, a recluse, etc, many still went to her for breeding advice. She had an eye for a nice horse and knowledge of bloodlines. She was just plain crazy, and perhaps just a “tad” dishonest. Not sure where the money came from, I don’t think you can get financing for FOUR approved stallions, although I wonder how much insurance payout there was on the ones that died. I suspect Mr. MD helped finance her horsey habit. Would love to hear the final outcome on this whole story – and yes, it does read a bit like a mystery soap opera.
Hey,
I want to agree this lady is a nut job, but there are a few misconceptions above in the readings.
I would like to point out that there are TWO Friesian registries. How I understand it, the original Dutch one (FPS) and the German one (FPZV) were once the same registry but they disagreed on out-crossing. That is when they split and became two different registries. IFSHA appears to be more recognized with the German one as they promote “Friesian’s and their derivatives.” The FPZV registry still has all of the same rules as the other FPS registry along with the approval tests to have “pure Friesians” registered, but they have decided it is not against the rules to allow out-crossing. I am not sure but I even think they only allow out-crossing of stallions and not mares – I haven’t read up on the differences and rules in a long time. I am sure someone who was interested would be able to go to their websites and look up those differences.
So where I agree the lady is a complete wacko, based on her out-crossing and her ability to have approved stallions I am sure she was apart of the German (FPZV) registry and not the Dutch (FPS) registry and that is how she maintained approved stallions and such. She was just way too involved in this con to mess up on little facts like not having registered horses… It is way easier to fake ones own death than that
She was involved in the Dutch registry. I don’t know if she also had German registered horses, but she definitely was heavily involved with the Dutch registry, and those approved stallions were Dutch registered ones.
Plenty of people own horses that belong to both registries. (By which I mean, they have some Dutch registered horses, and some German registered horses – the horses themselves can only belong to one or the other at any given time.)
After nearly a quarter century outside the U.S. – I came to appreicate Dutch culture and I share in the “Dutch love of Friesian horses”. Friesians carried Knights into battle and are not “fad horses”, in Europe. Read Friesian horse history and come back and we’ll talk.
Sorry Bo, but the “Friesians” that supposedly carried the knights had nothing to do with what most people consider today to be “purebred” Friesians. The knights were riding around on a TYPE of horse. The fact is that there are NO recorded pedigrees predating 1879(ish) for “Friesians”. Back then, they were breeding for TYPE. No one cared about pedigrees, which is how a “purebred” is defined. Breeding for “type” is the main goal of most European Warmblood registries today. They were called “Friesians” because they came from Friesland. Some were even bay or chestnut! The breed became a “color breed” AFTER the studbook was established. The vast majority of horses being bred in the early 1900′s were carriage types, NOT riding types. That is what the market demanded. “Warmbloods” back then were carriage/ag type horses. Back then horses had a function. They were not just playthings for the wealthy. The romanticizing of the history of horses belies their true role, and distorts their origins. *SIGH*
It’s a bit like saying that Shires are descended from the “Great Horse” that carried the knights into war!!
Possibly they were, but not the huge long legged beasts that exist today!! The Friesans I first met were HARNESS horses, and that is what, predominantly they were bred as.
The HUGE beasts you get today were never seen then.
They started being all black because they were used as fashionable hearse horses.
I saw Storm Shadow at IALHA Nationals in October. Beautiful horse
(if HTML isn’t allowed, here’s the URL to a photo I took of Storm Shadow:
)
(FHOTD in: It’s allowed. It’s just that there’s some weird quirk with this blog where only admins can make a picture show up. So I have to put the code in myself. Haven’t figured it out yet.)
They did an article about Storm Shadow in December months back in a local magazine called “Riding,” California’s Riding Magazine. It talked about how he’s owned by the creator/founder of Mannheim Steamroller
http://www.ridingmagazine.com/riding_onlinemag/articles/2009_12/stormshadow.htm
I bet Riding would love to know that their article isn’t correct and that the owner hadn’t died of leukemia.
baroque breeds attract pretentious, crazy women!
Martha Stewart has friesians! Enough said.
Oh. My. God. READ the above comment about Fugly needing to draw a Venn diagram for you. YOU. She was talking to YOU. YOU and YOUR KIND. Let me see if I can Barney-style this further (or at least repeat what Fugly has said millions of times since people who are in the throes of a “tizzy” seem to not be capable of thoroughly READING what they are having a tizzy about in the first place…)
Is everyone who rides or owns a Friesian crazy? NO. But… many are. Is everyone who rides gaited horses obese? NO. But, again, many are. Is she attacking YOU personally and saying that YOU are riding 2-year-olds and ruining them? NO. She’s saying it’s common. The only people who SHOULD be getting offended and huffy are people who do this, have done this, or who feel some semblance of guilt because they have come close to doing this.
Agreed.
It’s a blog. A bit of hyperbole makes for more interesting and amusing reading. Lighten up!
I googled Michael Weilert and lo and behold, another (?) Michael Weilert in Florida claiming to be a doctor:
http://cbs4.com/local/Deranged.Man.Crazy.2.692301.html
“Michael Weilert claims he’s a doctor, but he’s not… …Weilert has a rap sheet of arrests stretching the length of a conference table, including lots of fraud. In Ft. Myers he was charged with perjury, ID theft, and making false claims about who and what he was.â€
Interesting.
Laciefan, good catch!
I’m going to leave this post up for a while – it seems like there’s still more of the story left to come out!
Not the same guy. Weiland’s medical license in California is in good standing, no disciplinary record, and current. I can assure you that NO state medical board would let a crazy physician continue to practice.
You say “Weiland” is in good standing; this Florida guy’s name is “Weilert,” the same as the defendant in the court case.
My typo – I checked Weilert, *not* Weiland. (though I did happen to be listening to Stone Temple Pilots while I searched).
Most state medical boards allow you to search whether or not a physician has had disciplinary action taken against them by the board, or if a physican’s license is lapsed/suspended/expired. Check yourself if you don’t believe me, but don’t go spreading around a bunch of garbage on the internet without checking first.
What is up with the high school Drama? I just dont understand why people never leave high school and grow the f*** up!!!! If you want to be in the spot light and have attention on you then be an freakin actor or singer or even a flippin politician these days will get it for you. Dont BREED anything, animals or kids to get attention or get on TV it just disgusting and the people who did grow up just spend our time and money cleaning it up.
OK, Im done with my rant. I have met ONE nice friesian that was worth breeding out a large handful of them and all of them where breedable because, god knows, they where friesians!! I wish that I could remember his name for certain but I think it was some thing like (ABC farm initials) Knight Rider and he was very polite and well trained, he did second level dressage but his owner mostly did western pleasure and halter with him. He aslo drove single and tandem but she didnt have another horse broke to drive tandem so he didnt get to do that very often. I did get to drive him tandem with her friends percheron(s) who was visiting on there was through to a competition, both mares in season and he drove with both and you would never know….he never once flinched.
This is OT but these Perch mares where bought (rescued) off the Amish where used in “drop pulls”? Im not sure I have the term right. But I guess for funsies the amish train their horses to take off at the sound of metal hitting the ground by doing some pretty gruesome things?? Im not totally sure but these two mares had seriuos scares all across there rumps and backs and if they heard anything real loud that sounded like metal to cement they would bolt!
I never heard of “drop pulls” but I have been to a few draft pulls. One of the pulls was nice and the horses were well trained and cared for and in excellent condition. They are trained for this, as the owner explained by trotting his horses with heavy sleds for conditioning. It takes years of training and the drafts were calm and happy. That particular pull had tennis balls on the sled and the pull would be disqualified if the ball was knocked off the perch. Therefore the hooking and the ask for the pull are seperate events. However, like all sports there are also the “bad” draft pulls. At these events the tennis ball is not included because the horses have been trained to bolt when they hear the clank of the harness connection to the sled. It is not a nice sight because the horses begin to get excited at the very sight of the sled and are usually on high alert as they swing by to hook up on the run.
they do not stop and they jerk the sled. Obviously, these horses have been exposed to terrible training techniques because they are pulling out of fear. The Amish may be participating in the training but it would be at the request of the “English” because typically the Amish do not compete as that is against most of their religion. I guess there could be exceptions but in our neck of the woods, we have a lot of Amish who still farm. They are not interested in drafts that bolt at the sound of clanking metal but they will train for a price. It is the ASSHATS that want the drafts trained that way. Draft Pulls are usually included in fairs and special events in farming areas of the US.
Yeah Im not totally sure it has been a while since I have seen this guy and his team, and he was very nice and loved his horse and was kind of taking them back to grass roots to retrain them. From what I understood the Amish wherent competing they would meet at some ones barn and have these types of “competitions” as a sort of day of games (I wasnt aware that the amish played games
. From what I understood is was mostly the elderly men and the preteen boys, but Im not 100% and I wish I had some way of knowing for sure.
I know there are tons of awesome driving competitions and teams out there and its a shame that you dont see it more often because I think its a sport that requires a “rider” to really take time and train a horse. One of my favorite things to see at the state fair is the southern states hitch go through their maneuvers!
I’m as opposed to irresponsible and indiscriminant Friesian crossbreeding as anyone — but not all Friesian crossbreeding is bad.
The goal of a responsible Friesian Sporthorse breeder is to understand and take into account the strengths and weaknesses of the Friesian, and crossbreed in such a way as to end up with offspring which are more suitable for sport, while maintaining Friesian characteristics. This is why Warmbloods and Thoroughbreds are favored for crossbreeding among most Friesian Sporthorse breeders — these breeds have a long history in sport, and a long history of success in European sport breeding programs, and they excel in areas where the Friesian is the weakest. (The website link jdeboer01 posted also has some great information for anyone who may be interested in learning more.)
The people breeding Friesian Sporthorses in this country make up only a tiny percentage of the total number of people crossbreeding Friesians, but they are producing some really nice horses — horses which are excelling in dressage (thru Grand Prix level), combined driving, and even eventing.
The breeding makes all the difference in the world — not all Friesian crosses are created equal — but if you write off all Friesian crosses as being fodder for FHOTD you’ll miss out on some really nice horses.
So taking an above dreamhorse link, I did a google image search for ‘warlander’, and, well… Imma gunna just leave these here…
http://www.warlander-horses.com/
http://www.warlander-horses.com/Daniquiel/Daniquiel.html
QED, BWAHAHAHAH!
OMG! That horse has so much hair! He looks like one of those Komondor dogs! Wowsa. I grew up clipping everything and hating long manes (even when I showed arabs) and still do. It just hides their pretty necks. I actually love a pulled mane on most horses (in the proper discipline, obviously), so manes like this always freak me out, haha.
I love the image of him with a unicorn horn and his weird life change that happened when he met his magikal match in Colorado, haha.
Haha, just noticed his special lady owner has the same hair = )
So he moved to colorado and his special lady friend with the same freakishly long grey hair helped him come out of the closet? I just kept reading and I didnt find any other moral in the story can some one help me? Im all for his right to come out so I was thinking the whole unicorn thing was linked to walking on a rainbow….like Starlight in rainbow bright! Maybe she can help him by dying that hair rainbow colors and painting a big yellow star on his forhead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yZHmz6QQ4M&feature=related
Look this episode even has a flying friesian in it!!
OK I apologize
I will go sit in time out now.
Hey don’t be hating on On-X! When all the other little girls wanted Starlight, I was the one pretending to fly around, zapping bad guys on my rocket-powered pony with frikken’ LASERS for eyes. Hell yeah, the 80s were awesome. XD
Oh Im not hating on him…..He was awesome….Go X HELL YEAH!!!
Quote from first website:
“Jerusalem just before he took the 2006 NW Regional Championships at Halter and Liberty. We are pretending the huge van is ours… but really all we had was a rake, a bucket, and this horse.”
Livin’ the dream, baby. Livin’ the dream. Or is it living in dreamland? I like to pretend my minivan is a Ferrari but I don’t tell strangers about it lest they might think I’m a little off. Damn, my secret is out.
Another sure sign you have stumbled upon the website of a Loony Baroque Breeder: The foals are named after Lord of the Rings characters.
LOL – no worse than a cat breeder naming one Greta van Susteren!
I find so much to torture hubby with on this site. I read the ‘lovely’ story, then told hubby I just saw the most wonderful thing, had him read it, and asked if he’d buy me a unicorn.
In truth… that was just strange. Really, really strange. Hubby is still shaking his head and snickering and it’s been about 10 minutes.
OMG, soooo cheesy…
…. and yet it’s kind of cute.
Maybe it’s just a vehicle for her Photoshop projects.
And OMG, it’s sooooo cheeeeeezy.
At least he is very very loved.
The photo at the top of this page: http://www.warlander-horses.com/Daniquiel/Daniquiel2.html reminds me of the Linda Parelli horror video that came out recently. And I’m guessing it was taken on the same day as the ones showing his remarkable turnaround. I bet the horse is dangerous as hell, but the woman just lurrrrves all over him anyway!
I will fight for my breed (Friesians), at the drop of a hat and as my husband said, “She’ll be the one to throw down the hatâ€. Our boys came from two of the best breeders of Friesians in The Netherlands (not people who breed lots of horses and certainly not this American Friesian crowd). Some American breeders are top notch, but these people tend to have very deep Dutch roots. That said, we are here to investigate the woman on the “Woo Woo Train†to hell.
I got a note from a good friend in KY, who has had some extraordinary Friesians in her care. I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT! My friend knew the crazy wench we are investigating. We will speak by phone this evening, so I may have more information to add, a bit later on.
I recalled the story of one of Mount-mare’s prize stallions having hit his head on a tree limb. Right. The story goes that she went to the pasture to call to her stallion. The boy was so overly excited at the sight of her that he ran like the dickens, jumping high under a tree and hitting his head. That was the end of that stallion.
Soon after the above story was told to me, my friend called again to relay very bad/sad news about Mount-mare. She had LOST a second prize stallion (details to follow later, because I cannot remember what happened). My friend was in shock. HOW COULD THE SAME FRIESIAN PERSON LOSE TWO MAGNIFICENT STALLIONS – BOOM, BOOM????? Hmmmm.
FOLKS – This woman is what equine welfare advocates and purists refer to as “the lowest common denominatorâ€. Track her down and run her out of the horse world. These sociopaths always turn up again, like a bad penny.
More after tonight’s conversation.
“Soon after the above story was told to me, my friend called again to relay very bad/sad news about Mount-mare. She had LOST a second prize stallion (details to follow later, because I cannot remember what happened). My friend was in shock. HOW COULD THE SAME FRIESIAN PERSON LOSE TWO MAGNIFICENT STALLIONS – BOOM, BOOM????? Hmmmm. ”
I wonder if they faked their deaths too?
Or if she killed them for the insurance money. Hmmm.
Everything about this situation screams MAJOR money problems to me. When people get desperate for money, they will do damn near anything. I’d like to know if those stallions were insured and, while we’re at it, did Daddy Crazy collect life insurance after Mommy Crazy’s fake demise?
And those of you who knew her IRL:
Is this her husband?
Different guy…here’s a link to his practice/picture:
http://www.pathology-associates.com/doctors.html
I admit that the experiences I have had with Friesians make me think that they are indeed not for everybody. I once had a friesian breeder tell me that their personalities are like a cross between an Arabian and a Shetland pony. I can see that.
However, there is one friesian that I can think of who is positively drool-worthy: Jane Savoie’s Moshi.
But then, what horse wouldn’t be drool-worthy if it was owned by Jane Savoie???
I had the pleasure of meeting Moshi in January. He is a lovely horse, and a very loving one too.
SHOCKED RESPONSE FROM ONE FRIESIANN PERSON I just spoke with:
“I did not know about the cross breeding, she is the one that was very strange, sometimes I would call to talk to her which I did on numerous occasions, and her assistantant would say she was very sick and laying down and that she would call me back and she NEVER did. I called and talked to her about breeding and the different stallions. I worked with her to breed Wicker. I CANâ€T BELIEVE THIS!!!” KY
Holy frijoles! I haven’t read the other posts, yet, but I made an offer on one of her horses, because they really are gorgeous and can move! Granted, it was for less than half what they were trying to sell them for (because this was supposedly an “estate sale,” and, stupid me, I figured you could get stuff cheaper through an estate sale), and I was mocked and scoffed for my lowball offer, but honestly… this is INSANE. I was totally sucked in by this horribly sad story, but mostly, I just thought the buckskin “warlanders” were pretty awesome and I wanted one. Too odd! I must digest this a moment. Wow. I even talked to some lady who supposedly was good friends with the not-so–dearly-departed. I think she was German, but I can’t remember her name. And she was hoping if I bought the horse they could continue the breeding program. She even told me about the chick being a great geneticist. WEIRD!!!
And I actually own a Friesian mare–she’s a spunky little sucker. Who knew? I thought they were supposed to be calm and sweet. And you aren’t kidding–people who own Friesians are nutballs. I suppose I might be one myself, but I have never, ever had the inclination to dress up as a wood nymph and ride my Friesian around. Nor do I think she is a magical “black pearl.” Nor do I ever want to dress up as a ringwraith and ride her around. Nor do I want to participate in medieval games. In fact, I think she’s a giant pain in the ass, and had I known then what I know now, I probably wouldn’t have bought her (I bought her when she was 6 months old–little did I know what was in store… to be fair, she is now 4 and is quite magnificent under saddle and I look forward to years of fantastic dressage riding on her). I got a great price for her, because the breeder (who DOES like to dress up as a wood nymph and ride her Magical Black Pearls around), was afraid of her and her dam (a fact not disclosed to me until AFTER I paid for her).
Funny, though… I also own Tennesee Walking Horses and I’m fat. HA HA HA! Hey! I resemble this post! And I guess I am certifiably insane!
(please do note I have never ridden a horse who is only 2 years old).
Funny… if I had a Fresian (or ANY big thick hairy horse for that matter. My current yak doesn’t count) I would totally do all of these things. But, I’m a big fat dork, too. Of course, I would also know when to get off the fantasy train, unlike some of the other people I’ve come across in my brief searches. Wow.
I used to ride Tennessee Walkers, but wasn’t fat at the time. Hmm… maybe one just leads to the other, or something…
I’m a big fat dork and I would totally do those things too.
Actually, I have, just a little. But my Friesian is ALSO a spunky one, and is since his cooperation is necessary for such things, mostly we just stick to plain regular schooling, in filthy schooling clothes and regular, practical tack.
Hahaha, I DO do those things in fact (well, dress up prettily and ride around like it, taking pictures) even though I just own a crappily BYB pinto which is mostly white (yes, with pink skin) with some brown splashes… She is very pretty to look at and long, flowing dresses hide her conformation well AND she has ‘eye liner’ markings so we can wear matching ‘make up’ hahahhaha It’s mad fun, try it one day, whatever horse you’ve got! And bring friends and cameras! ^^ People also seem to love looking at photos of that stuff as long as it looks like ‘a fairy tale’ and pretty and all that LOL
I have a friend who did the SCA thing in college, and she maintains that there are two kinds of participants:
1) “I want to live in a Mercedes Lackey version of the Middle Ages”
and
2) “Do we have any more mead?”
The German lady wasn’t in on it. Many, many people were fooled by Genevieve. Many people thought she was their friend, and believed her lies.
Any why is it FooFooFairyHorse owners have to name them after a character or SWORD from Lord of The Rings or other fantasy/sci fi book or movie (see previous Warlander link for example…Anduril???). I had a sorrel roan Clydesdale with four high whites, three foot long white mane, and ground dragging white tail. His name was CLAUDE. I don’t speak Elvish, I’m not from Rohan, and I don’t think a fantasy name is essential for a hairy horse. I guess I’m only half crazy.
Dude, I know. If you really want me to make fun of you, give them names that sound like they came from some fantasy roleplaying video game.
Of course, I’m not sure some people should be allowed to name their children. Have you ever seen this site?
http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/6.html
Just one excerpt: “I have a 7 yr. old daughter named Mariah Carrie [last name] … as you can tell my husband really likes the singer and we even have a picture with the real Mariah Carey and my Mariah Carrie together. So we are expecting our second child in April and i think we should stick with a singer/star name since we started it with Mariah, yet we call her maya. Sex is unknow so if its a boy I like: Marc Anthony and if its a girl: Aaliyah Marie. What do you guys think? any suggestions? any star/singer names?
[No comment, just the sound of muffled weeping.] “
Regarding horse names (not human names, don’t get me started on those!) I think it’s just a taste thing. If your horse looks like a horse from LOTR, why not name it something fantastical? It might be a little silly, but if it makes you happy, why not?
I like horses whose names reflect their parents or perhaps country of origin. Zorro and Amiga are Paso Finos, so they have “spanish” names. I love the way Friesians are named; unique but not silly. I can tell, at a glance, that “Pocos A Scotch Girl” has Poco Bueno lines.
But if I had a pretty white horsie with long flowing hair, maybe I would call him Shadowfax. As long as you don’t completely disconnect from reality, there’s nothing wrong with being a little day-dreamy sometimes.
(The lady in the Warlander link above has obviously disconnected from reality, lol)
One thing I’ve never understood is the weird punctuation addictions to Arabian names… Does any other breed have that?
The punctuation additions to Arabian names are the initials of the breeder or farm who bred the horse. For example, EA Radar Love was bred by Empress Arabians, or an Arabian with SF in front of its name is usually either a Stachowski Farm or Springwater Farm baby. Sometimes the letters are behind the name, but it is the same system.
Yeah I understand including little initials in the name to represent the farm (our two Pasos have that), but I’m talking about using weird symbols in the name, like / or +
Take *Bask++ for example… what’s with the * and + ? Sometimes I his name without the plus signs. I think *Padron is another famous one with the star. Does it indicate a certain accomplishment? Is it part of their registered name?
The asterick in front of a horse’s name denotes that they were imported from another country, like *Bask was from Poland.
The plusses and slashes denote accomplishments in show. This is taken from the Arabian horse association’s website:
LEGION OF HONOR “+” (EST.1980)
Arabians – 75 points
Half-Arabians/Anglo-Arabians – 60 points
LEGION OF SUPREME HONOR “+/” (EST.1980)
Arabians – 150 points
Half-Arabians/Anglo – Arabians-120 points
LEGION OF EXCELLENCE “+//” (EST.1992)
Arabians – 300 points
Half-Arabians/Anglo-Arabians – 240 points
Requires one national top ten or better and one regional top five or better or two national top tens or better
Awards for a combination of Breeding/In-Hand points and Performance points:
LEGION OF MERIT “++” (EST.1965)
Arabians – 75 points, with a minimum of 30 in breeding/in-hand and 30 in performance
Half-Arabians/Anglo-Arabians – 60 points, with a minimum of 25 in breeding/in-hand and 25 in performance
LEGION OF SUPREME MERIT “+++” (EST.1980)
Arabians – 150 points, with a minimum of 60 in breeding/in-hand and 60 in performance
Half-Arabians/Anglo-Arabians – 120 points, with a minimum of 50 breeding/in-hand and 50 in performance
LEGION OF MASTERS “++++” (EST.1992)
Arabians – 300 points, with a minimum of 120 in breeding/in-hand and 120 in performance
Half-Arabians/Anglo-Arabians – 240 points, with a minimum of 100 in breeding/in-hand and 100 in performance
Requires one regional top five or better or national top ten or better in breeding/in-hand and one regional top five or better or national top ten or better in performance. One win must be at the national level
The following symbol levels represent combinations of the above categories and levels – no additional plaques are awarded for these symbol levels:
LEGION OF SUPREME HONOR and LEGION OF MERIT “++/”
LEGION OF SUPREME HONOR and LEGION OF SUPREME MERIT “+++/”
LEGION OF MERIT and LEGION OF EXCELLENCE “++//”
LEGION OF SUPREME MERIT and LEGION OF EXCELLENCE “+++//”
LEGION OF MASTERS and LEGION OF SUPREME HONOR “++++/”
LEGION OF MASTER and LEGION OF EXCELLENCE “++++//”
My friesian’s name is Aaron. Not elfish at all
That baby name site is a TRIP!! OMFG!! My wacko step sister went from drug addiction to Jesus addiction (better, but some times very strange) and decided her children all needed bible names. She called us all excited that she had decided on OBADIAH for her newest trailer trash addition. We convinced her that the kid would end up being called Obi-Wan for his whole life, so at the last moment it was changed to Josiah. Of course, he has been Joe ever since. Good thing we spared him from the dark side.
I wanna get a ButtFugly horse and call him Gollum. His show name will be MyPrecious… Picture a fugly sooo bad that Gollum is THE perfect name!! Someone has to have a pic of one of those! So gross it makes your eyes hurt!! And I would proudly show him in a grooming class at our local big fish/small pond clique du jour horse show just to piss off the elite who come to show here at this dinky show ‘coz they aren’t rich enough to win in Wellington!! (There used to be a resin horse model called El Crapola a few years ago that was supposed to be an example of every conformation fault known to man displayed on one animal. That is my Gollum…)
No Frodo or Elrond or Anduril or Strider or LadyHawke or Gandolf for me. If I ever had the money I’d have a Fresian named Bob. Or Fred. Just one with a nice plow horse name. My Clyde’s barn name was Doofus. Go figure. I think he liked it. He always had the dorkfish hanging lower lip thing going on. I am SOOO never gonna be classy enough for the Fresian crowd in South Florida…
What about naming one Billy Joe Jim Bob…? heheheheheeh
El Crapola:
http://www.jahleedesigns.com/traditionals.asp
4th horse down – although Yukky 2000 (2nd from bottom) is rather good too.
Perhaps we should cross him with the mini horse in the pic above when she foals?
Its alright – if it turns out weird we can just send it to auction and pretend he got a lovely home with a kid who feeds him carrots all day . . .
My husband just came out of the other room to find out what was making me laugh so hysterically! (It was Catatonia Calliope and the next one.) Brilliant!
I send that site to EVERY pregnant friend, and read every bit of it while trying to come up with baby names myself.
Of course, everyone thinks I named my own daughter after a line of cutting horses, because ironically, that was the one thing that didn’t occur to me….
Lol…. right on topic (but off by a breed) – my OTTB came with the name Sir Lancelot. It certainly was better than the stupid TB name his breeders came up with – Grand Central Station (WTF?).
As far as celebrity baby names go, one word: Apple
….ROFL
What about Moxie Crimefighter Jillette? (Penn Jillette’s daughter.)
…I actually kind of like Moxie for a pony name. That would be perfect for a sassy little pony.
Amsuingly, for me anyway, but maybe not for the kid, my dog is named Moxie. She’s a total terrier brain too. Stupid fuzzy black lawnmower dog. I wouldn’t trade her for anything, though, despite her weirdnesses.
My hairy fluffy horse came to me with his Lord of the Rings name already in place… I’d planned to name him after a character played by Bruce Campbellin a TV series by the same name/a character on Law & Order (two different unrelated characters, same name), but I had known him by the name of Brego for so long that I just couldn’t wrap my brain around calling him Brisco no matter that I had that name picked out for years. So he keeps his LotR name. Not sure that “Brisco” instead of “Brego” is any better. FWIW, I know for at least three other horses with this same name, one is a Percheron and the other two are TB.
And to prove i am completely batshit insane, I named my farm after an item in a video game, and my driving gelding after a certain character played by Johnny Depp in a pirate movie. lol.
Hahaha! Brisco would have been a great name! He had an awesome horse too… though the awesome horse had a boring name, iirc.
*checks*
Actually… I now need to name my next horse ‘Comet the Wonder Horse’ and always refer to it by that full name >.>
Yup. but I’d already had a horse named Comet, lol.
I’m still going to use Brisco some day. Hehe.
Too funny! I can assure you that nobody deserves to have to see me dressed up as a wood nymph. Nobody.
But you may be onto something… perhaps Tennessee Walking Horses lead to Friesians… they do all generally have great manes and tails, and I admit I loves me a great mane and tail. Sheesh–I still own my QH precisely BECAUSE he has a great mane and tail. OK–he’s also sweet and really fun to ride (and is surprisingly good at dressage, considering he was bred to be a halter horse), but I’ll admit I’m all over the My Pretty Pony thing. I have a giant palomino walking horse that everybody calls Fabio, and he really does look like he came off the cover of a romance novel. I really am a complete doofus.
So–I’m remembering my conversation with Genevieve’s friend a little more, now, and she was telling me all about how Friesians have serious genetic defects, and Genevieve (the great geneticist) had a plan to cross-breed and then breed back to Friesians and improve the breed with some genetic diversity but get the horse back to Friesian standards in a few generations. However, I found myself wondering why they’d have picked a cremello Lusitano to breed to if they wanted to return to breed standards–I’d think picking a nice black Lusitano would have worked better. Granted, I still cherish the thought of a buckskin “Friesian.” And I shall have one some day… bwa ha ha…
The third time’s a charm?
Genevieve (the great geneticist) had a plan to cross-breed and then breed back to Friesians and improve the breed with some genetic diversity but get the horse back to Friesian standards in a few generations.
That is actually a Very Good Idea, IMHO. In plant breeding it is called convergent improvement.
However, I found myself wondering why they’d have picked a cremello Lusitano to breed to if they wanted to return to breed standards
Oops, it looks like Very Good Idea went south.
The heck with fancy-smancy code.
“Genevieve (the great geneticist) had a plan to cross-breed and then breed back to Friesians and improve the breed with some genetic diversity but get the horse back to Friesian standards in a few generations.”
That is actually a Very Good Idea, IMHO. In plant breeding it is called convergent improvement.
“However, I found myself wondering why they’d have picked a cremello Lusitano to breed to if they wanted to return to breed standards”
Oops, it looks like Very Good Idea went south.
So I worked for a whacky bitch who was into Friesians & Lusitanos. thankfully she didn’t breed Friesians, but she did breed Lusitanos. She had a Lusitano stallion that she rode daily, but he had come from Portugal and he was a great example of bad temperament. He grabbed the gal I worked with by the boob, pulled her into his stall and shook her like a ragdoll and then let her go. She was okay, but had tons of scar tissue. Whacky bitch would keep her pregnant mares on dry lot and feed them crap grass hay, and their foals would be born with no feet, huh, wonder why??? But no worries, cuz the cribbing Arab that she had as a boarder got the pasture with actual nutrition. Anyway, she’s there in the PNW, and probably friends with this whack job on this blog. I agree with you Fugs, the whackos like baroque and the fatties like the gaited.
WAY OT, and I apologize if this has already been posted.
For those that think that slaughter would be an acceptable solution if we could just address the transportation issues, here’s a link:
http://www.barnmice.com/group/horsejournals/forum/topics/chdc-compelling-proof-of
The link itself does not show anything graphic, but the video links from the site are VERY graphic. The video is very recent. And this is CANADA!
And look how many Kool-Kolored horses with SPOTS are in those kill chutes. More proof for those who think their fugly homozygous-for-green-purple-and-silver horse is immune to that fate.
What a friggin’ mess. The worst of it is what will become of Christiana. Too bad Michael didn’t follow through on the custody suit.
I would be so totally down with riding in medieval costume on my big hairy baroque mare if given half a chance, or even as a vaquero. Call me nutso-shitso.
Someone asked about the punctuation in Arabian horse names. If they mean the symbols behind their names ( + and / ), it is a system that shows the award levels they have earned the the show ring. A “+” behind a horse’s name means he has earned his Legion of Honor, and so on.
Thanks for the answer! That seems like a cool system because then you can tell by a glance at the pedigree (assuming it’s up to date) what the accomplishments of the bloodlines are.
I don’t know much about Arabians, but I think they are gorgeous horses and I could stare at pictures forever. I have literally spent hours surfing websites such as this one: http://www.omelarab.com/index.html
But the only Arab I’ve ever ridden was my friend’s eventing horse… Tandem bareback in the pasture as teenagers
“riding bareback tandem in a field”. AHH yes, those crazy arabs.. LOL.
The breeders’ initials thing isn’t really anything established by the registry or mandatory, but just kinda something that everyone does. It is a way of showing off your breeding program for the rest of a horse’s life. It does help a lot, though, when horse-shopping.
Sorry, I have been answering about the initials before and after names. OOPS, that’s what happens after a long day. Yes, the punctuation is issued by the Registry as a way of acknowledging a horse’s accomplishments.
Off-topic but I need info quick. This downed mare is 19 years old. She’s at a friend’s house in another state (can’t get there myself). Friend is good person and is landlord, not owner. Vet’s been out there twice, ran blood tests and left. Horse stayed out in field overnight; owner slept nearby in her truck. Morning came, they rolled her over, mare still not up She’s drinking and even eating a little. Seems to be in some pain but not colicking. Does she have a spinal injury? EPM? busted pelvis? ryegrass staggers? HYPP? aflatoxin in feed? Nobody out there seems to know. Record rainfall in this part of the country this past week so I thought mycotoxin could be the culprit.
HAS ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF A HORSE THAT”S BEEN DOWN FOR TWO DAYS EVER GETTING BACK UP AGAIN?
I worked with a case with a young stallion that was down for ~2 months and got back up again and is now fine. It was a starvation case though, it was a friggin miracle. But he was a working case for the vet tech program so he got round the clock medical services and tip top care.
Yeah, that would be more than most people can provide. I mean, if they’re in a clinic in a sling – ok. But in a field? Down more than 24 hours, I’d put them to sleep.
As long as the mare is drinking and eating some, is not in severe pain or discomfort (are they keeping her from getting chilled?), and you don’t know that she has something fatal, I would let her be until either she gets better, she gets worse, or someone figures out what the problem is.
(The only pony I knew to get back up after being down for much longer than two days had a broken leg.)
I always thought Friesians were only owned by blondes.
Except for the poor guy who’s owned by one who worships at the alter of Parelli. But she never rides him; lets him graze loose next to the road through the ranch a lot. He lives in a grass pasture.
Just want to comment that there must be a heck of a lot of new readers on this blog because to me “obese people” riding two year old Tennessee Walkers instantly conjures up endless past photos of shorts clad “bubbas” sitting on swaybacked long yearlings. The whole backyard yahoo being a fat, cowboying man crushing the life out of some poor gaited baby horse complete with gun/beer/and no riding ability whatsoever is a Craigslist stereotype endlessly ranted about here without referring to competent horse women of a more rounded appearance who ride easy gaited trail horses due to advancing age and bad knees! “You” aren’t the 350 pound men gaiting down the paved road on an 18 month baby screaming yahoo with a bunch of drunk friends. yes, that’s a stereotype and of course not every man or southerner who rides gaited horses behaves like that- not even all the show babies with their fat male riders would count. But really, the reference to me as along time reader really brings back specific photos and links and posts dealing with that issue. Fugs could have mentioned the 300 lb men on 14 hand two year old reiners but there really isn’t a backlog of past fugly photos, posts, links and ads showing that as a yahoo endeavor. Reiners cost money and any one at all can have a baby gaited horse in their backyard.
“Just want to comment that there must be a heck of a lot of new readers on this blog because to me “obese people†riding two year old Tennessee Walkers instantly conjures up endless past photos of shorts clad “bubbas†sitting on swaybacked long yearlings. The whole backyard yahoo being a fat, cowboying man crushing the life out of some poor gaited baby horse complete with gun/beer/and no riding ability whatsoever is a Craigslist stereotype endlessly ranted about here without referring to competent horse women of a more rounded appearance who ride easy gaited trail horses due to advancing age and bad knees! ”
That is exactly it and I don’t know why people are so oversensitive. I’ve written numerous blogs on selecting the right horse for a larger rider, etc. I have no problem with larger riders. My crack was SPECIFICALLY targeted at all the beer-bellied Bubbas we’ve seen on youtube abusive scawny, tiny two year old gaited horses. If you don’t get that, go back and read more of the blog, because you’ve missed the joke.
First let me preface by saying, I am a long time lurker, occassional poster. I am also a very definite fatty, no way around that and I did understand Fugly’s joke. However, I also, as a fatty, understand why there are some who are posting to this subject as if it might have been directed toward them. Although I understand Fugly was not directing the statements at me or every overweight person in the horseworld, I could not help but cringe. Is it oversensitivity? Hell yeah, it’s oversensitivity! Just like a bruise that has been hit repeatedly needs less and less pressure to make it hurt, those of us who have severe weight issues, have had to deal with taking repeated hits about our weight both from outside sources as well as internal battering. At some point, you’re going to say, “enough, I’m not going to take this hit”, even if it is a self imposed perception of taking a hit. At least, that is how I take it, as a fatty myself. Obviously, I cannot speak for everyone who has made comment about the weight issue, I can only give you some insight to think about when musing about, “I don’t know why people are so oversensitive”. I would never in a million years suggest Fugs become PC as that is part of the fun of reading Fugly. However, for the impatient responses to those who respond about weight as if it is directed at them, perhaps some compassion on the subject wouldn’t be too much to ask for as there have been others who have responded with this compassion, showing it’s possible, without losing the integrity of this blog.
Ok, this is not quite off topic….
What the HELL is a Drum Horse?! I mean, I read the breeder’s website and googled it and stuff… But all that tells me is that it is a usually mongrel cross breed of draft horses, usually clydesdales or shire horses, that carry drums in parades.
So one would like to know, what makes these ones worth 12 GRAND? Yes, You read a’right: $ 12000
Please tell me, I would like to be rich with a minimal effort (no training and stuff, of course) just for breeding crazy shit that no one needs!
Enlighten me….
http://www.horseyard.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=158346&Itemid=210
Breeder: http://www.gypsydrums.com.au/
Ad Text:
Superb Drum Horse Colt. Can be reg with society of your choice. Zing leads, rugs, easy for farrier, ties and loads on float, he is quiet, used to tractors, kids, dogs, has been well socialised and handled. Can be gelded if wanted.
http://www.horseyard.com.au/images/stories/jreviews/158346_IMG9356_1266121069.JPG
http://www.horseyard.com.au/images/stories/jreviews/158346_IMG7899_1266121069.jpg
Oh yeah, of course they have a helmet-less kid demonstrate how good he is.. At least he is on a lead….
He’s a YEARLING also….
Oh, sorry, I get it now. They have Gypsy Cob. That explains it all.
I think the Queen should sue. True Drum Horses are not REMOTELY a breed. They’re coloured draft horses which carry the kettle drums at UK state occasions like the Trooping of the Colour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trooping_the_Colour
The Queen often breeds them herself. Some people in the US have evidently decided to cash in on this. Wait up for the “Drum Horse Sport Horse Registry” in ten…
Right, yes. They are bred for a very specific purpose. Generally, they are created by crossing a colored cob with a Shire. They’re not a breed, but very rarely someone will call any spotted draft horse in the UK a ‘drum horse’.
Most of the American ‘gypsy horses’ are closer to drum horses in type than to what they think they’re breeding. Maybe because a lot of Americans like things bigger? (English casual riders ride cobs and ponies because, ya know, they don’t take up as much space or eat as much).
Yep, I’m a Brit who grew up on cobs. The fields where my parents live are littered with shaggy “gypsy cobs” with burrs in their manes and dodgy tethers…
“The Queen should sue”
Hahahahhahahha Duno, she might just ask for a cut of the TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS
ROTFL
Oh sorry, I should have mentioned this, it’s an Australian Ad.. They are apparently trying to start the crazy Gypsy Cob thing here, too…. Not sure if it’s working though, most people have to hand feed all year round here so having a gianormous spotted draft thing to feed will soon turn any but those with too much money off it i think xD
Yes, strewth! Keeping a full-size draft hand-fed? No…
Can I just say that video posted by Bo Oliver is exactly why I don’t like the Friesian associations, most of the Friesian breeders and owners. Those horses in the video are ridden badly, too short, totally contracted frames, chins pinned to their chests and the breeders are breeding for ‘pretty’ and that ridiculous 1.5m mane and feathers. Friesians are a working breed, the best thing you can do for the Friesian is breed them to create better canters so they can translate to better sport horses instead of creating paddock ornaments for crazy rich people. The current Friesian Sport Horses are mostly a joke…overly long backs and big heads and thick necks. I personally think that people like Jane Savoie and Sabine Schutt Kery should educate most of the Friesian breeders on how to breed a really good Friesian i.e Moshi (Menno PM)
I love the breed with a passion and own one but goodness me do I hate talking to the breeders-most of them are true blue nutters.
Dear Fugly: Please remove that last comment – computer malfunction – actual comment below:
WARNING: very graphic videos but I think all people who breed with no thought as to the future of their horse should be made to watch these.
There is a part where a horse is strung up without being stunned and kicks the guy coming to to slit its throat. Can’t help but think – go horse! Although sadly this means it is hung up for longer as they look after the injured guy.
This is a very severe case of bad becoming normal in this place . . .
Has any one else noticed that this crazy lady looks just like the Albino in the Princess Bride movie? They even have the same haircut.
http://www.jimmyakin.org/images/the_albino.jpg
Wow this is weird. I tired in vane to buy one of the friesien/lusitano colts, Midnite Fire!
Regine Brockway posted on the Yahoo E-Iberien group about Genevieve de Montremare death. She listed how all of these wonderful babies by Saphiro were for sale at 9,000. There was a website with pictures of some but not all.
I emailed for Midnite Fire’s picture and did not recieve a reply. I contacted Regine and was told there was a lot of upset and it would take time. I then got the phone number of Genevieve de Montremare’s barn manager, Lydia. I spoke to her and she told me it would take awhile to send a video because her husband had just died a week before Genevieve !!
I then contacted the owner of the stallion Shaphiro and asked her if she knew what was up. She later sent me this email from Lydia:
I will be taking pictures and video of all the horses next week (we need sun and clean horses) Regine Brockway said she would put the videos up on YOUTUBE so people can see the great movement the horses have.
We need the sun because Midnight Fire is “metallic” and you can’t see that if he is dirty or it is raining. He is a very special horse. Many of them are very unusual colors. They are really beautiful.
Thank You,
Lydia
I never could get a picture of the colt I wanted but was sent a short blury video of three of the colts in the field who all looked the same. Can’t remember if they were on Youtube or not.
Lydia then told me I could send a deposit and she would mail me a contract. I was only ten hours away and really wanted to see colt so tried to make a date to come if all went well take him home that weekend.
My last email to Regina after not hearing back from Lydia:
Hi Regine
I have talked to Lydia twice this last past month
about Midnight Fire. She said she would take picutres
and videos. I could send a deposit and could fax me a
contract. The last communication I had with her was
almost three weeks ago. She said she would take the
videos and call me that night or the next. I haven’t
heard back. Is Midnight Fire still for sale? Could
you please have her call me and let me know whats up.
After 3 months of enquirers I gave up. Boy am I glad. As there were later postings in the E-Iberian about someone having trouble getting the papers transfered to their name.
So how wierd is this to see two years later this woman is alive. What happened to all the horses? Who is her friend Regina>
I would like to know the rest of the story so keep us posted!! They were lovely cross bred animals!
Regine was not in on the fraud. Don’t know why she was so hard to get a response out of, but I imagine that there WAS a lot of upset at the time. If she believed Genevieve was a friend, and that good friend had just died, and suddenly Regine had a bunch of Genevieve’s foals on her hands and needed to deal with them and everything else, not to mention her regular life… I don’t know. I can’t speak for her. All I know is, I am not generally an overly trusting person, but I believe with every fiber of my being that Regine was tricked and lied to by GM too.
This Regine is a good person. get a life people. If you just found out your so called friend ( a term used very loosely by some) actually more of a acquaintance…died,…. and then found out the whole relationship was a lie. What a shock. I feel its only normal that you are not on the ” first to call list” on a horse that is for sale. Actually… Im sure at that point …. she wasn’t sure who actually owned the horses if the real owner all of a sudden comes alive. Of course there is confusion. Let is go. The majority of horse people are good. we work our butts off for very little in return ..often just the soft nicker of our horse that warms our heart is all we need.
This is a train wreck that I just can’t seem to avert my eyes from! I live in the Fresno area but I doubt that anyone I know circulates in the same circles as these um “people”.
Train wreck, ship wreck, Friesian Armagedon!!
For those of us who thought we knew her she was a mentor who produced some truly talented horses. Her knowlege of the breed allowed me to make some better breeding decisions, several that as babies were FHANA keuring colt champion (#1 out of 13 entries), FHANA keuring philly champion (#1 out of 18 entries that year!!), 2 mares made star, and 3 stallions made star following her recommendations. She was well respected as a producer of some nice horses, even if she was a bit eccentric (fairly common in the Friesian breeders, eh?) By the time we came into the breed she was well established and had many other well respected breeders referring me to her for advise and possible broodstock. She fooled many people, and used many good-hearted people who sincerely wanted to help the purebreed Friesian.
I think that many of us who ‘fell in love’ with Friesians 10 or more years ago are frustrated today as to where the breed has gone. A friesian should look like a friesian, not a black walker or a saddleseat. I feel like there has been a rush to produce a ‘crazy’ horse with little ‘type’ all in the effort to create a great dressage/sport horse. You can argue what makes a great Friesian, but Friesians got popular due to their incredible beauty and their gentle easy going temperments. It is a shame that so much of that has been lost. The registriy is at falt for this and I give you an example: a inspector at one very large west coast keuring went on and on about a 1 year philly, “as good as any in Holland’. This horse was a nut job, had no neck, thin body type, skinny legs, was absolutely scared out of it skin, and trotting like a saddleseat horse with very little extension. I couldn’t believe that this horse, who I suspect had been trained with bands (very unnatural gait), was so praised. I really turned sour after that as the judges were strangely confused when asked privately about the use of bands/chains: they said they didn’t know people did such things. Truth, or a polite deflection of an uncomfortable subject, I’ll never know. The next year, many horses who didn’t do well the year before now had that same unnatural gait/temperment and were awarded. You get what you reward !!!
As for x-breeding the Lusitano to the Friesian, it was a logical cross if your goal was to produce a more athletic horse with stamina, but a quieter and easier temperment while maintaining the beauty of the Friesian (hair, body type, neck). But you had to use good brood stock to do it: the mares were often 1st/2nd premie Ster, did not always have a red gene(only one or two were the ‘Red’ Friesians). The double-dilute Lusitano stallions were used to produce buckskin and palominos with lots of hair, lots of neck, sweet temperments, and wonderful extended trots. I personally saw more than 10 of them and found them to be quite interesting. See Storm Shadow @ ILAHA grand nationals. Don’t blame the horses, many of them are quite nice and doing very well in competition. I hope one day I see a buckskin or palomino doing grand prix well and watch the look on people’s faces.
“No good deed goes unpunished”. As to Regine, she is a victim in all this. She has spent thousands and thousands of dollars supporting horses for no profit(by now a huge loss) based on the idea she was helping the poor grieving family of good friend who died tragically. Regine acted as any good friend would do and more: she just didn’t really know the real person she was dealing with. The betrayal is enormous. She had nothing to do with anything nefarious.
The legal proceeding are in discovery and will proceed to court later this year?! Then we can all talk about the facts, not the juicy gossip.
http://thecalifornianfriesian.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/an-american-tragedy/
I find this so interesting – it covers some of my favorite reading topics in one strange bundle: horses, crime, sociopaths.
Anyway, at the link above, someone comments that Mrs Weilert also spoke with a FAKE FRENCH ACCENT. Can’t wait for the trial to start and find out more facts.
The April 16 2011 Fresno Bee has a great article on Krazy Genevieve:
http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/04/16/2353500/bizarre-tale-of-valley-girl-with.html