Three horses die in dramatic attempt to escape and get help for the rest!
Mar 05 2010
That’s how I read this story, anyway. Watch the whole video to see the sad pictures of her matted, thin and wormy looking herd that did not die on the highway this morning.
Three horses die on Oregon highway
So, Portland, Oregon area people – who is this Marge Smith? Has the situation always been this bad?
BTW, since we’re talking Arabians again, look at the Scapa post’s comments for an update post from his owner – who admits the horse did have a bad experience with another trainer – again NOT Matthew Gales, who has a good reputation and was the victim. I want to make it clear that no one here thought he was at fault, and also that I am very impressed at the owner’s post and believe it to be 100% truthful and that the horse’s owners did not knowingly allow him to be abused. Since I assume all of you in the Arab breed show world know exactly where this horse was last fall, now you can avoid that trainer and avoid having your horse similarly brain-fried. I feel that we did get the whole story here, and in light of that, I commend his owners for finding a more humane trainer and for that trainer’s efforts to overcome the horse’s (justified) fears.
Really, folks, I’m not the enemy some of you think I am. I just want the truth to get out in situations like these so that other horses aren’t tortured by the bad trainers – and if I don’t scream and shout, these things tend to stay under wraps and then innocent people (like poor Nicole Marr) take their horse to the Big Name Trainer without a clue of what is about to happen to it. And sometimes those horses suffer damage that can never be fixed.
209 comments to “Three horses die in dramatic attempt to escape and get help for the rest!”
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This just makes me angry. The news story stated that neghbors have complained about the condition of the animals before but since she “meets the minimal standards of care” nothing can be done? Her poor skinny horses are “OK”? All the ones in the video don’t look like they ever seen a comb with their poor matted manes and tails, they all looked like they need worming and groceries too. One of the people interviewed for the piece stated that her horses get out on the highway from time to time…grrrrr. It has been my experience that a horse doesn’t break out of it’s enclosure if ALL it’s needs are being met.
Oregon is fast developing a reputation as a great state to live if you don’t want to take care of your livestock and don’t want to face any consequences. I doubt that is the reputation they want so I hope they start to get on top of this stuff!
No, sorry, they do. Instinctively, horses are grazing and moving animals, they are migratory.
If they are not free to do this, they will take any and every chance to do so.
My fat herd de-camped through an open gate one day, luckily I was there (I was actually in their field, I just had my back to them pulling weeds!!) and was able to get them back with a bucket of feed. Also luckily, I am surrounded by fields, not highways.
I am making no excuses for this woman, but I think we have a responsibility here to the not so horse savvy whose fat spoiled darlings are constantly attempting to escape because, as we all know only too well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
LOL! ANY horse, mine included, will go through an open gate! My meaning was that they won’t go to the pains of escaping through their fence. Of course since her fences are probably crap they are probably finding all kinds of ways of getting out. I’ve heard of people who couldn’t keep their horses contained because they kept breaking the fence…why? Because they were hungry or thirsty or the enclosure was too small or too crowded or too dirty…. There is almost always a reason. Most horses will not put themselves at risk of injury by breaking fencing if they have everything they need where they’re at.
Minimum requirements? If she truly had met the minimum requirements, better yet, if the minimum requirements actually met the needs of the horses, then this never would have happened. Why don’t they have people in animal control that actually know what they are doing and fully understand what it takes to properly care for a horse? Why are they not taking certified or retired, TRUSTWORTHY vets with them on these abuse investigations? I have come to absolutely despise the idiotic, pompous bureaucracy under which everything in this country is run. If she had adequate fencing, then this never would have happened. People like her make me strongly support corporal punishment.
I am making no excuses here for the starved horses, but horses can and do get out…I had a small herd of six get out one time and almost made it onto a major insterstate. Tollway had to be temporarily closed until it was certain that the access road was closed. It can be as simple as the wrong person happening to have control of the gate, and that happened to me…my SO’s son left the gate open. We chased horses around and over the intersection of two state highways before we caught them…I was on a bareback horse running through the dark after them, jumping ditches and dodging trees, and police and other people were on foot trying to keep them out of the road. NOT the way to spend an evening! I was lucky to get off without so much as a ticket, and the officers were all petting the horses when we were done. Too bad it sounds like this Oregon incident is not just a case of a dumb kid. I hope they do get busted.
Yeah – a friend who is a very responsible horse owner (ex-Pony Clubber and everything) only found out that her horses were escaping during the day because they had a pilot take some aerial photos of their property and one picture clearly showed the herd OUTSIDE the fence. They never figured out which horse was the escape artist, but it eventually took 3 separate bolts/latches/chains before the equine-Houdini stopped undoing them. Thank Hera they lived up a mountain faaaaar away from any paved road.
Has the video been edited? I saw no pictures of the other horses at all.
Never mind, fugly — you’ve answered this question enough.
I hadn’t read that far yet. Feel free to delete my posts.
We had a very fat “Thelwellesque” pony named Alexander the Great at the barn where I learned to ride. His name should have been Alexander the Great Escape Artist. He delighted in finding the most creative and furtive places to break out, no matter how solid the fence. He was caught in the act several times, and so was always the usual suspect. He had a pack of loyal collaborators. Most of the time they just got out into the extensive garden, but a few times they paraded up the road, which mercifully was a quiet country road at that time. The neighbours were understanding and helpful. Once Alec became a greybeard his antics stopped and never again did the horses escape. In today’s speedy world, he would have been boxed up in a smaller paddock within a paddock.
What a horrible story. And I cannot believe those horses’ manes and tails!! The dark bay/black in the one shot was very, very skinny and none of them looked great. It’s sad but the three horses that were killed might be the lucky ones.
Manes and tails do not make a badly looked after horse. I have NO problem with matted manes and tails, it is a shame but not a cruelty. I have a problem with badly fed horses, well animals of any sort, actually.
I grew up in Colton and that Woman has been out there for at least the last 30 years. This morning, when I heard that the accident happened near Bonney road, my first comment to my Husband was “It’s probably some of those poor horses from that hoarder lady’s place. You know, she’s been starving horses out there since I was a kid…” Yeah, for as long as I can remember, she’s had a herd of skinny arab fuglies. They never seem to starve to death, but they never look decent either. She has them just healthy enough to keep the authorities at bay and she breeds a few fugly babies every year. Ugh.
The worst of it is that Bonney road is pretty much a dead end, so the only people that drive it are locals and you can’t really see her place well from the highway, so unless you know they’re there, you wouldn’t know to look for it.
Every time I hear of a horse seizure in the Colton area, I hope it’s her, but it never is. Maybe now someone will do something. The tendency in Clackamas County (and I think Oregon in general) is not to sieze horses unless there are dead animals on the property. As far as I know, she’s never had dead animals out in the open and, again, (in the past at least) she’s kept her animals looking just well enough that the authories can’t act. It’s a very borderline sketchy deal. Most of her horses would probably rate out at between 2-3. So it’s one of those frustrating self-perpetuating evil sitations. As we all know, you can’t have someone arrested for being an idiot and breeding endless fuglies.
I hope they fine the heck out of her for not securing her property. She’s also liable for any damage to the vehicles.
See, I’m hoping this gets it into the news and therefore some action is taken. I’m not surprised to hear she’s a long time offender.
Hmmm, Marge Smith is a little infamous in the area, arabian breeder/hoarder, crappy falling down fences, WAY too many horses, won’t geld ANY of them–precious and rare bloodlines, don’t ya know? She covered for Virginia (Ginger) Winters when her starving and dying horses were seized, claiming many of them as her own so the county wouldn’t take them. Of course Ginger got them back and starved/abandoned them AGAIN, leaving the poor lady holding the bag who had let Ginger move horses onto her property–luckily she had signed boarding agreements and was able to auction them off. We have a new cruelty investigator in Clackamas Co now and he’s been uh…less than aggressive about situations that need immediate help.
Really. So what’s his name and contact info?
Clint Pie, Clackamas County Animal Control clintpie@co.clackamas.or.us is the new ACO
What happened to Gunther Morgan? I thought he was the sheriff in charge of animal mistreatment.
Did she also use the name Ginny Winters? That name is really ringing a bell for some reason.
She didn’t want to be on camera because she didn’t want people recognizing her in Walmart and spitting on her. Well, at least that’s why I think she doesn’t want to be on camera, cause if I recognized her…..
On a side note, what she is breeding is not quality anything. I wouldnt have guessed arab. Infact, my first guess would have been walker cross of some sort. I hope the media attention gets the animal control to wake up and do something about the remaining horses situation so they can get an upgrade.
You’re probably right about the Wal Mart part, and spitting on her! Cuz EVERYONE goes to Wal Mart at some time or another, believe me!!!
Damn straight!
Waaaaaay OT here, but totally Wal-Mart related:
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798
Totally wrong but I love that site
What the hell is she breeding? Rare Rastafarian Arabians? That’s what they look like with those awful dreadlock manes and tails. And you just KNOW everything in that video is either pregnant or a stud. The shitty part is she will probably get fined more for the accident than she will for starving and neglecting her horses (are you liable in Oregon if your livestock causes an accident, I know you are in my state?).
Just the fact she wouldn’t go on camera tells me she knows what she is doing is wrong. And her barn and pastures are disgusting. The only living things that place is fit for is bacteria and fungus. And her, of course.
“Rastafarian Arabians” just made me snort my soda! Crap, don’t even say it, SOMEONE WILL START A REGISTRY FOR IT!
I believe those are called curlies (and aplogize now is anyone ownes well bred bashkir-curlies, I’ve only seen the fuglies.)
” Rare Rastafarabian Registry, Register now. Any horse with a long, matted , mane and tail can join, so long as it has one or two Arabian features or one great great ten times removed, Arab ancestor.
Registration Fee only $25.00, lovely certificate!”
The Equine Puli!!
There is a distinct difference between a fugly, well cared for curly gelding or unbred mare and a poorly cared for, even crappier, fuglier matted arab.
I really hope this isn’t the Marge Smith I’m thinking of…I don’t really know her personally but if it’s the one I’m thinking of then her horses are really bad off.I’m pretty sure its the same chick I’m thinking of though.I watched the video and the place looks very familar.I was really young when I met this Marge,but I still remember clearly the cruelty I witnessed.I met her because my mom was friends with a woman named Trish.Trish and her husband were great friends with Marge because Trish was a brainless arabian person also.Trish’s husband was a farrier and a very good one at that.Anyway,Trish and her husband Bob would sometimes make a trip down to Oregon for some of their long time clients and Marge was one of them.I went with them the one day because my mom was working and Trish was baby sitting me.Anyway,when we got there I was absolutely stunned that Trish even associated with this woman.All of her horses were skinny,they all had scars on them and all of them were wormy as hell.You could tell she physically abused them because they had sores everywhere and not too mention every time you moved too fast around them they would freak out.There was one that tried trampling Bob while he was filing her feet down.I kind of don’t blame the mare for doing so because I imagine her feet were pretty sore.All of Marge’s horses feet were so bad and unkept that they were starting to curl into their ankles.Marge had this one little black Arabian mare,I forget her name.This mare was so sweet and I felt so bad for her.She was skinny,not too skinny but skinny enough you could see her ribs and her hip bones.She was wormy.You could tell that no one ever brushed her,EVER.There was mud and poop matted to her fur.She had scars under her eyes and all over her face.I remember when Bob was doing the mares feet Marge was holding her and the mare kind of flinched away from Bob when he went to clip her feet and Marge just punched the mare in the head.I was so shocked.I was about 9 years old and I had never seen anyone do that to a horse.Especially just for flinching.Anyway,I felt real bad for the mare.She was a sweet mare and she didn’t deserve that.None of the horses deserved that.I remember when I got home I told my mom about the mare and about how Marge treated her horses.My mom called Trish on the phone asking for Marge’s phone number.My mom was going to try to convince Marge to sell us the mare.Well when my mom called Marge about the mare Marge said that I was just making things up and that she never laid a hand on her horses and that the mare was perfectly fine and that she would not sell the mare.Needless to say about a month after that Trish called my mom up and told my mom that one of Marge’s horses had died mysteriously.I knew what horse it was that died,my mom didn’t have to tell me.But I wonder how that mare just “mysteriously” died.But the thing is is that my mom offered that woman enough money for that sweet gentle broken down black mare that that woman could have fixed all of her fences,she could have gotten wormer for her horses,she could have gotten a ton of hay,and she could have gotten propper medical care for all of her horses and still have money left over.This should tell you how heartless and cruel this woman is.Like I said,I don’t know if this is the same woman because I was very young when I met her but everything matches up.I hope they do something for the rest of the horses out there.The way she treats them is very sad.
Okay, that is just nuts…if we don’t consider anything else at all here, what the fuck is she breeding them for if not to sell them? She think they might replace gold on the national reserve or something?
She is probably breeding enough every year to replace the ones that die of neglect. God only knows what you would find if you dug around on that property, as long as she has been there. (From what people said on here this has been going on for years) From what the video shows she obviously can’t even fix a fence or haul off a junk car, I doubt she is shelling out a couple hundred bucks a pop for dead livestock removal, or whatever it costs in her area. Not that I am against burying them at all, we bury ours. But we have more above the ground than below it. Wonder what her ratio is?
Someday someone who CAN do something and is willing to do something will pay attention to what I have been telling people based on what I have seen over five decades with horses. SOME OF THESE HOARDERS are actually insuring their herds fairly inexpensively under a herd “blanket” policy and are collecting $$ upon horses’ deaths. If the claim is small enough the insurance companies won’t investigate. There are quite a few equine insurance companies most offering small “herd” policies–after a couple or three claims the “breeder” moves on to the next insurance company. Horses “escape” and die. There is a colic death, a foaling death, a mysterious “injury.” Pneumonia. Foal failure to thrive. “Feces occur” and money changes hands. If the dollar amount is under the insurance company radar the “breeder” has a nice little income supplement. So what if payment for the dead Ay-rab “worth a fortune” (har har) is only insured for about a thousand bucks. Get five or ten deaths, that keeps the ball rolling. Unfortunately unless an insurance company is actually willing to do boots in the field work or an astute law enforcement officer (an oxymoron with emphasis on the moron part) is willing to dig into the manure a little (heaven forbid that would cut into donut time), the fraud will go on and on AND ON for decades.
Read some of the “We Support Marge Smith” comments on a few of the Oregon TV stations’ websites. It will make you SICK. These idiotards think Marge’s horses are JUST FINE. I suppose they will claim the TV videos taken of Marge’s horses have been the video equivalent of photoshopped or that Henneke 1 is an invention of busybodies.
Yep, the video is photoshopped! That eeevil TV station CGI’d the horses skinny just to persecute poor Marge!
*eye roll*
oh man this is minimal standards?
I need some advice on how to prevent a similar situation from happening in my area. I live in a small town, and I believe it is legal to keep horses in the city limits as long as you have at least 1 acre of undeveloped land. Last October I was driving down a busy road and to my horror saw a horse grazing in an unfenced yard on the side of the road. Upon closer inspection I saw that the horse was tied to a single wooden pole in the ground with a lunge line. He was skinny and wormy looking, and the house was one that I have always noticed because of the inordinate amount of crap all over the yard. Through the crap I was also able to see a small cruddy shelter and pen in the back of what is a very small piece of property. I immediately called animal control, and they promptly sent an officer to inspect. The officer reported that the horse was being treated for worms and that they tie him out there to graze. He informed the owners that if the horse got loose they would be liable for any damages. Basically, he did all that he could within the confines of the law, and we all know that amounted to nothing.
I travel this road frequently and was surprised that over the following months the horse was kept in his pen (a whole other issue in itself). Fast forward to last Wednesday when once again I saw him tied in the unfenced yard, this time right smack in the middle of all the junk. I will say that he looked much healthier, but dewormer and a good diet can’t prevent a horse from breaking free and running into traffic. I am not about to knock on their door and complain for fear that I will be greeted by hillbilly bob and his shotgun. I’m just not going to take that risk. Do I continue to harass animal control, send an anonymous letter, or do nothing and chalk it up to another case of hopeless stupidity and be glad they only have one horse? Any advice?
I wonder if it would do any good to write a polite letter and simply say, I saw your horse tied out, FYI that can be really dangerous and I’d hate for your horse to get hit, and then suggest at least getting some step-in posts and hot tape to do temporary fencing so the horse can graze. More likely to keep him contained!
What I did in a similar situation was contact a very reputable rescue (USERL) and told them about the horse, gave them the address, etc. They pretty much worked everything out with animal control in my county and were able to get the horses out within two weeks. If you can get photo evidence, that helps a ton.
Thanks for the advice. When I recover from my horse show hangover tomorrow I’m going to figure out my plan of action. I’ll let you all know if I get results.
The news reporter said something to the effect that the owner didn’t know how the horses could have escaped….. Oh yeah, I’m shocked that they managed to get out of that fortress of fabulous fencing.
Well and someone else said her horses were out all the time. Accidents happen but when they keep happening, they’re not accidents, they are a sign you need better fence!
Damn it! That is just ridiculous , hearing she’s been doing this for a while now makes it even worse.
I think you are right , those horses were on a suicide mission to get help for the rest.
Whether it is unsafe practices, graft or corruption in the workplace or abuse of any kind, it takes whistleblowers and those unafraid to stand up and “tell it like it is” that get things changed. Often those who take such risks pay the price, but in the long run the ones who sit idly by and say nothing are as guilty as the ones who are doing the bad things, in my view.
As the owner of Scapa said on the post update, he thought everyone was badmouthing his trainer, his horse, etc., until he read more closely and then realized that very few people were doing that. Most of the posters were recounting situations they had witnessed first hand and also were telling the GOOD things they had viewed, as well.
I don’t know Marge Smith, but I DO remember Bonney Road. I grew up outside Portland and my parents thought the fun thing to do on Sunday was “go for a drive,” and we hit Clackamas County a lot. “Country living” back then ;o)
I could swear you ladies were talking about the breeder/hoarder down the road here in the North Okanagan. She doesn’t ride and non are saddle trained. Just enough hay to keep the SPCA thinking that they are cared for. Five stallions that have spent their whole sorry lives in dirty little pens. I doubt if she could even give them away. SPCA did advise her to quit breeding and except for over the fence breeding she has. If the two dozen or more horses were mine and I couldn’t look after them better than she is , I would shoot them and put them out of their misery. Thanks Fugly for doing a great job helping horses on both sides of the border.
DAMN…the authorities have been called to her place before, and they said she’s giving her horses the minimum care? Guess since they’re all “standing”, they’re considered “healthy?” As far as getting out on the road, when you live on a highway shouldn’t you be extra diligent that your fences are IN GOOD REPAIR???!!! The only time our horses were out on the road (NOT a highway) was when some butthole ran through our fence with his car; and we were not at home; and he left and never said or did anything to aid the situation We did find a piece of the car and I had thought of going to body shops to find out who did it, but if someone is that negligent, they’re not gonna get the car fixed. Of course no cops ever saw the accident, and no report was ever filed. But back to the horse story..WHAT a JERK!!!
Some drunk idiot hit a tree and knocked down our pasture fence once. Luckily it was night time during winter and the horses were in, so no one got out. Of course he hit-and skipped, but was so wasted he didn’t realize his front bumper fell off, with the licence plate attached! A cop that we are friendly with handled the report and told us the story about taking the bumper to his front door, ringing the bell and asking him if he lost something. He said the guy was still so drunk he couldn’t walk straight. Long story short, he hired someone to fix the fence
I’ve had an experience with loose horses on a highway, back when I worked for Morris the asshat of M.P Stables of Gibbons, Alberta. Amongst being a staff abuser and horse abuser among other things, he didn’t give a shit about the safety of his staff or clients.
He sent me out to be the trail guide for a girl guide group. As most trail riding places do, the group was sent out with TWO guides, me and this guy who couldn’t ride worth shit and had a potty mouth to boot which isn’t a good person to send on a girl guide trail ride! Anyway, Morris sent me out on this belgian mare that MAYBE had 20 days total of riding, and only did walk trot. The horse he put the other guy on we didn’t know anything about, Morris picked the thing up at the auction a few days prior and no one had ridden it. We BARELY made it out of the driveway when the auction horse bucked the guy off and bolted. The horse was running all over the busy highway, and even when it got off the highway I didn’t stand a chance of catching the thing on my hardly broke stubborn mare without getting off. It took 3 people to get me on the thing, and I was only 16 so I really didn’t know what to do but I decided it was probably best not to get off the horse since one of us should at least be mounted. People driving on the side of the highway, and luckily a few horse people drove past and pulled over and helped us catch the horse. The other guide ended up walking the horse back to the farm, while I continued the trail ride. One of the kids was on the horse I normally rode and he could be a jerk. Definitely not a suitable horse for a beginner rider. While I was about to take the group down the wrong trail (it was only my first day and I didn’t know them yet, neither did the guy I was with) Here comes Morris at a full out gallop from behind us. The one little girl was still having trouble with her horse, I would have switched with her myself, but my horse would have been worse for her. Morris decided that he was going to give her his horse. The girl had a much easier time with the new horse, but Morris proceeded to rip a branch off a tree and beat the living snot out of the horse right in front of a group of little girls. It wasn’t just a few hits and done when the horse misbehaved, it was a full out whaling on the horse as hard as he could for a solid hour until we got back to the farm.
Many of the girls went home crying. That was my first and last day there. Aside from the obvious issues I mentioned, he regularly sold horses to kill (including the one that got loose on us), I know for a fact he hired a guy to shoot one of his drafts so he could collect the insurance on the team, he LIED about selling horses to slaughter to a newspaper (who by the way made him look like a great horseman who loved children (more like he liked the fact that they’d work for free and will believe anything and not call the SPCA on him), and he also BEATS ON HIS STAFF.
I was initially supposed to spend the night there, but then all the above incidents happened all in the same day. I didn’t have a cell phone at this time, and the fucking ass refused to let me borrow their phone, so I ended up trying to sneak a ride into the city with the guy that fell off the horse earlier. Unfortunately Morris caught us and screamed at me for being in a car with a male I wasn’t married to and he was going to call my dad and tell him all about how horrible I am and blah blah blah. I gave him the number to call my dad so he called and started screaming at my dad about how I’m trying to sneak off with a guy I’m not married to and all that jazz. I have no idea what my dad said, Morris was silent for about a minute, hung up the phone, screamed at me “you go STRAIGHT home” and stomped off to the house. I’d really like to know what my dad said, but I’d really like to know because it shut him up right quick and got the fucker out of my face and I was finally allowed to leave.
Unfortunately I was too afraid to report him for anything he did, and by the time I got the courage to do it I was told it was too late.
What a way to turn off horse-loving children, making them never want to be around horses again (only because horse-people such as these are attached.) Thanks for mentioning the sicko by name.
Good for your Dad for giving him a piece of his mind, and to you for getting out in time—I would bet any amount of money that if you’d stayed, you would have experienced much worse displays of his sadism, possibly as one of his targets.
A P.S. to my above reply…you gotta feel sorry for the truck driver, cause they really do NOT want to run down any animals, and besides any damage to his truck, which she should be liable for, I’m sure it’s as unnerving as hitting a dog on the road. Everybody likes horses!
I agree – I feel very sorry for him, that’s a traumatic thing for sure…I HATE hitting animals. I have only hit a possum once but I even felt really guilty about that!
After I lost a wonderfully sweet mare to EPM the previous owner declined to disclose to me, I no longer feel bad for deceased opossums in the roadway.
I hit a cat once and cried the rest of the way home. LOL.
I hit a beagle on my way to work one day when I was 18. He was alive, but bleeding badly and obviously had broken bones. I drove him to a small animal vet nearby for treatment and contacted his owner from the tag information. I bawled my eyes out, felt guilty as hell b/c I had been screwing with the radio when I hit him. He bit me twice, bled all over my vintage Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am, and I got fired from my job for being late without calling. The dog lived though. And I hated that f-ing job anyway, my boss was an a-hole.
Oh wow, good for you though that he lived! So many people would have driven away.
So it all ended up good—because YOU made the hard decision to do the right thing!
I sure wouldn’t feel bad about hitting a possum. Raccoons aren’t liked very much either, but are given a pass since they don’t have horrid diseases.
Since AC knows about this woman and this isn’t the first time her horses have been out. Would it be possible for the truck driver and the company that owns the truck and lumber sue the woman and the county for damages, lost income etc?
People have sued for a whole lot of sillier things and won. Seems to me that thinking that possiblility over might get the county to actually do something other than turn a blind eye.
What a great idea! Suing the county (or even the threat of it) may be what they need to perhaps start to wake up the county and this new A.C. guy into taking his job a little more seriously.
What’s with that one horse wearing that nasty filthy sheet? What’s even the purpose of that? Making sure it holds the filth in??? Seriously, I don’t follow the logic of putting a sheet on a horse that is covered in mud, and living in mud, and the sheet is now covered in mud, and it’s still wearing it, and now my head hurts.
In my part of Oregon, you are liable if your livestock gets loose and causes an accident or injury. A few years ago, a horse got out onto the highway about a mile or so from where I live and died when a car hit it. The owners were liable for all damages.
Those owners, I might add, took good care of their horses and had safe fence, but their property was right on the highway. It was just an unfortunate accident.
Argh, sorry, that was supposed to be for stopthesoringTWHgirl.
OMG in the news video that black horse in the beginning…wtf??? Can they not see that the backbone is sticking up on that horse…they are receiving minimal care my ass!! Not to mention that every horse had beyond matted tails…or is that the new style for horses tails…dreadlocks?! What a butthead owner and Animal Control too!!
I tried to bust a horse-starver in Easton, NY and met with nothing but resistance…from my friends. The cops were eager to get the guy, though. The guy hid the horses when he heard the authorities were interested.
Did you guys see that black one?? WOW. I hate arabs, but a horse is a horse and I felt pretty damn bad for all of them.
Same person?
http://www.palaraarabs.com/
http://www.ak-cmk-2009.org/akandcmkbarntour2009 (under Thursday August 27 entry)
Yep, same person, lots of web sites!
Apparently there is another website, an older one, larger pictures of her stock:
http://pal-ara.com
Reading further, sounds like she lost her husband in mid-2008 and was trying to sell horses.
http://www.alkhamsa.org/KhamsatExpress/KEJan2009.pdf
I don’t know when the most recent website was created . . . but, if there is money for websites, there is money for proper horse care. If there is no money for proper horse care, get over yourself and ask for help . . . at some point recognizing, no matter the great breeding, the animals still need food and care, including adequate fencing.
Minimal care? Do they not see the ribs and spines sticking up? That halter grown into that one horse’s face? Tails a solid mass of burrs? How can this be considered ‘minimal’ anything?
http://pal-ara.com/
The picture above shows a stallion in a sheet metal fence with knee high tansy.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/7685279/PAL-ARA-ARABIANS-STOCK-LIST-2009
Here is a sales list from last year.
She is also listed on Datasource as the breeder of 54 horses and is a co-owner with several other people.
She has a couple of web sites, all with different designs. Too bad she did not spend the money on feed she spent on websites!
Oh boy. A whole lotta nothin
Normally when people have quality horses, they have pictures to show people their horse. In this instance she was preventing people from seeing her overly fugly horses that are skin and bones and want 10k for it. If it’s true and this has been going on for a while, I hope AC gets a fire lit under their ass and do something. Like for example, get people who know horses to be in AC. I honestly should be immune to this crap, but nope a stupid hoarder that breeds fuglies just has to step into the picture because of their stupidity……… I honestly hope the prosecuter throws the book at her and makes an example out of her. Perhaps call up people who have seen the way she treats her horses to the stand or have been to her property? That would probably get somewhere.
I also looked closer at her photos of her stallions pictures, gee wonder how old those pictures are? And the 10k is in reference to now how much the horse is because the rack of bones “showed and won”, so now the 3k horse is now 10k. Despite the fact she has no proof. The websites 4 years old, because normally a website would be copywritted 2006-2010 or something like that. And since there is no update, I’m just taking a lucky stab at what she would want now……..
Im really sorry for the horses, but if something like this was going to happen Im glad it was a huge truck that was involved….hopefully a quick death for the poor animals and an uninjured driver.
I know a lady who hit a horse in a mid size car and the horse rolled thru the windshield and nearly killed her. It was almost 20 minutes before the authorities put the writhing animal out of its misery.
Sad situation all the way around….
Have you ever jackknifed a rig? If you had, you wouldn’t be saying that…that rig could have taken out all the horses and all the cars in the way if it had jackknifed. Luckily the driver had his wits about him, but the rig still could have lost control and hurt everyone and everything in its path. One car would have been bad enough, but if he had logs that had gotten loose, that would have been beyond ugly.
I sure hope the trucking company sues her if she is found to be as negligent as she sounds. We’re talking about damages that likely range over $100,000 to the rig alone. AC better start getting their heads out of their asses too before someone gets killed.
Most of her horses are Davenport Arabians, or crossed with Davenports — yes, the same ones praised in the Scapa comment thread.
An alert reader found her web site. Very pretty! Sure doesn’t look like those horses in the news footage that went poof, does it?
http://www.palaraarabs.com
It’s hers, for sure. Just google pal-ara arabians and Marge Smith and you’ll see all the links. Central Pacific Al Khamsa affiliate? Al Khamsa, it’s time to do some site checks!
AK and CenPac are paying attention. Other AK breeders were there in August during the AK convention, and apparently did not see issues at that time. Many who know her are acting to look into the situation.
I’ll point out that she breeds both pure and part Arabians, so, no, not all the horses may look like purebreds.
I am not defending any actual problems, just pointing out that we do not have all facts at this time.
(At a property I had some years ago, I had some problems with horses going wandering — because the local police chief’s JD son repeatedly cut my fences so he could ride his motorcycle in my back part of the 80-acre pasture. Finally, I took the *mayor* back into the woods to show him the motocycle tracks and the two full panels of fencing cut and removed, and it stopped. Sometimes it is NOT “bad fencing.”)
Yeah, I also see one of her main goals was high percentage Arabian palominos.
What IS it about color breeders? You know, I’m glad my buckskin’s all full of the dreaded red gene, lol…he’s not likely to attract the Krazy Kolor people if/when he stands at stud!
Found another video of the Oregon mess that shows the black mare and the nasty manes. Obviously no one told her that if you braid manes to help grow them out you have to take the mane out at some point and re do it!
http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/3-horses-killed-by-log-truck-on-Oregons-Highway-211-86629062.html
Oh this whole situation makes me so sad. As an owner of an Al Khamsa mare myself this just makes me want to hit something. At my horse’s boarding stable she is jokingly called “the Princess” because she is spoiled by everyone including myself. Everyone loves her-says she is sweet and has a great personality. Even a new boarder that has been a long time breeder of QH says she is his favorite horse there (other than his own). I would let myself go hungry before my horse did and I would sleep in the barn with her before I stopped paying her rent. I just can’t under stand having those horses in your back yard and not being out there brushing them, feeding them until they couldn’t hold more, and having several fence lines between the horse and the highway.
I did send al khamsa an email- hopefully they will be able to do something- even if they have to coach it in “helpful” verbiage. Here is what I sent:
I am sure you all are already aware of the situation, but 3 horses were killed on a highway in Colton Oregon. They are owned by Marge Smith and when you Google her name a lot of Al Khamsa things come up. As a horse owner my heart goes out to anyone that loses a horse, but my heart goes out to the remaining horses as well. I watched the following news clip: http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/3-horses-killed-by-log-truck-on-Oregons-Highway-211-86629062.html And as you can see these horses are not in the best condition. The black mare is very very skinny and some of them have suspicious bellies that look like a worm infestation to me. As an owner of an Al Khamsa Arabian myself I am both shocked, horrified and very sad. Is there anything that can be done on an organization level? Granted I am not on site so perhaps there is more to the story, but perhaps Ms. Marge Smith needs help in some way or some counseling on how to get her property more horse-safe and them not showing so much backbone and ribs? I wish I was closer to help.
I love head shots and horses standing at an odd angle or are galloping in motion. This just screams, ‘My horses are crappy, I know it but I want you to fall in love with the horse’s ‘personality’. And I can’t have you evaluate their conformation online, no it needs to be in person so you’ll fall in love and have to buy him.’ *head desk* Either that or she has so many to ‘work’ with she has ‘no time’ to take quality photos as in the halter horse pose, or as close to a halter horse pose. Just one. And she can’t manage that……..
Major dressage rider put in hospital after falling from a horse.
Wear your helmet, every ride!
Maybe this will get the dressage people off their butts on helmet use not being acceptable in the ring at the higher levels.
I never get on without a helmet and I worry about what might happen if I decide to show again.
I have two major opinions about helmets: The first is that it’s a parent’s responsibility to put one on their child’s head. This is because when you choose to become a parent, you undertake a fairly large scope of responsibilities. One of them is to do what you can to get that child to the age of 18 in as undamaged a state as possible – physically and emotionally. You are unlikely to achieve perfection but you make a good faith effort, which includes things like making them wear helmets, making them eat their vegetables, and trying not to be a horrible example, at least not in front of them. When they are 18, your job is done. If they un-do everything you tried so hard to create before age 21, which many of them do, that falls under “everybody has to make their own mistakes” and hopefully they’ll wise up before they end up doing permanent damage to their lives.
The second is that I don’t believe we have any legal right to single out one risk that adults may take and legislate against it when we permit so many others – which is why I’m violently against any kind of law that anyone has to wear a helmet for anything, motorcycles or horses. I personally dislike helmets and only wear them to jump. I don’t want to hear one word about how I might get head injured and have to be supported by the public, unless you want to hear my answering response about how those of you who live on Whoppers and have high cholesterol might have a stroke and have to be supported by the public. It’s my right to risk my head and yours to risk your arteries – welcome to America. It is indisputably healthier to wear a helmet, avoid fatty foods and, oh yeah, not participate in high risk sports like horseback riding in the first place. But the fact remains – you might walk outside of your house and be hit by a drunk driver. Serious, horrible accidents are always going to happen to human beings and are not necessarily a sign that something major must change. Sometimes, it’s just your unlucky day.
I agree with you, fugly. All of my most horrible horse accidents have been while NOT mounted. Body clipping seems to be my real downfall. LOL. I do require my junior riders to wear a helmet, and I am an anomoly amongst arab trainers in that I wear my helmet when getting on a baby for the first few rides, but day to day I ride ten to twenty horses a day sans headgear. Freak accidents can a happen at any moment whether around horses or not. I certainly don’t wear a helmet to drive my car and that is far more of a risk than riding a trained show horse.
I agree that adults should be able to make their own decisions about wearing helmets, but it is ridiculous that there are rules that bar you from wearing a helmet at upper levels if you want to. Wearing a helmet doesn’t mean you don’t have confidence in your abilities, it just means that you think the discomfort/inconvenience of a helmet is worth the reduced risk of injury It’s your head so you should have the right to weigh those odds and make the decision for yourself. I know people are concerned about being traditional and stylish, but styles can change! People used to only ride in little decorative hunt caps back in the day and now there isn’t a rated show out there that isn’t lousy with huge, clunky, striped GPAs…
I agree with you there. Anyone should be able to wear a helmet in ANY event without that working against them. Western pleasure, dressage, whatever.
RIght.
I’m not talking about legislation. I’m talking about changing the culture that makes wearing helmets unacceptable and the policies that make judges mark people down for choosing to wear one.
I’ve been riding since I was 4. I can’t remember how many times I have fallen off, and NO, not because I hit my head! If you ride rescued auction horses on a daily basis through your teenage years, you fall off a LOT. I have literally never hit my head. Or landed on my head. I always land butt or back down. I say it is because my butt is the heaviest part of me! So no, I don’t believe a helmet would have helped me a bit. And I’m with fugly, don’t make laws to save me from myself. I’m not endangering anyone else when I don’t wear my motorcycle helmet. So don’t make a law to force me to wear one.
Is there an actual USEF/USDF rule against it? Or is it just because it has the stigma of being a non-professional look?
For myself, I don’t ever put a foot to a stirrup without my “brain bucket”, I don’t care what anybody says or rules.
I believe the rule is you cannot wear a shadbelly coat without a top hat. So, I *think* that you can ride upper levels wearing a helmet and a regular coat but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anyone do it. There was an article in the March issue of Dressage Today that talked about someone trying to get a helmet/top hat combo. I think more and more people are coming around to the idea that helmets are a good thing.
Same here. And any guests of any age who ride my horse must wear a helmet, too. And I encourage helmets in conversation with other riders (without being an asshole, hopefully.)
But mandating them for adults? No, adults are accountable to themselves.
OK – this question has come up on a few other blogs.
USDF is the organizational body for setting up US dressage for levels Intro through Fourth level (not dressage in Eventing, btw). It sits “under” the USEF – the governing body for dressage in the US is USEF – BUT for levels at Prix St. Georges and above (aka the shad belly levels), the tests and basic framework are set up by the FEI – the international body for equine competition.
So when competing at the FEI test levels, you could be riding under USEF or FEI rules, depending…
Courtney competes internationally so she’s likely showing under FEI sanctioned events.
The FEI rule states that at PSG or higher, appropriate attire is shadbelly and top hat.
I *believe* somewhere else in FEI rules, there is the rule “no rider shll be penalized for wearing protective head gear.” which is what the USEF says. But the FEI rule book isn’t on-line. Since those two comments are in separate sections, it gets confusing. Can’t verify the second rule.
I am sad that this top rider is injured. Who would not be? But when I see a top level rider, who has access to horses that cost more than I paid for my home, it feels a little prickly when people start to ask for donations to pay for medical expenses. Does she not have decent health insurance and a fund set aside for deductibles? (Bet she has it for the horses.) I make huge sacrifices in my life so that I can provide health insurance for myself and my family. I too would love to ride full time, but, the thing that keeps me from doing that is a sense of responsibility to myself, my family and my horses. It is also what keeps me wearing my helmet when I ride those 2 or 3 times a week, in good weeks.
I have been surprised over and over again at really good trainers and grand prix dressage riders that do not have health insurance. The ones I have known say it costs too much and they are correct. Mine costs too much too. For that I spend a good 50 hours away from home and come home too tired to ride, only to log in here and see a plea for $ to pay medical expenses for someone who has time to ride. I wouldn’t feel so pissy when I read about the fund that is in the works, is she had worn a helmet. Sorry for the attitude. I know this is not taking the high road.
Cuortney King is a trainer, not a wealthy horse owner. Riding horses that are worth more than many people’s houses does not mean that you are wealthy. Many great horse trainers are just scraping by, especially if they are the farm owner. Honestly, I’m not driving home in a Mercedes.
I get the feeling that you are salty because I (and other trainers) have time to play around riding horses while you are working your grueling 50 hour week. Let me tell you, I don’t remember the last time that I got to work just 50 hours a week. I’m sorry that you can’t find time to ride, but the reason why I have time to ride is because IT’S MY JOB. It is not a matter of “finding time”, it’s what I do for a living. I love training horses, but it is HARD work. By about horse #15 I am ready for my day to be over, when in fact I still have several horses still to go, plus all of the extra chores that come with the job.
Good for you that you get reimbursed fairly for the amount of hours that you work and you have great health insurance. Shame on you for being such a snob and acting as though everyone else should simply just have it, and there is something wrong with people who don’t. If it is so simple, why don’t you trot on out to DC and solve the health care crisis for this entire country.
My point is more that if someone chooses a physically demanding and sometimes risky career, and has creatures depending upon them for their food shelter and care, they should recognize that health insurance is not a luxury. It is as necessary as a water bucket. People who think this are not snobs. We have self preservation instincts. (A helmet is also necessary.)
There are few groups of people I respect more than good, humane horse trainers. It is sad that they do not always view themselves as being as valuable as the horses they train. Unfortunately, I have seen what happens when a hard working trainer is injured and cannot care for themselves much less their animals. The loss of work for even a few weeks for most anyone self-employed is devastating. If your clients (most of whom probably have jobs and health insurance) are injured the result is likely to be more work for you. If you have no insurance and are injured, the result is likely to be medical debt and loss of income which can result in bankruptcy, but don’t worry about those clients. They will find another trainer. But, they may come back later and bring you the messed up horses you had going great before your injury and you may just need the money so badly you have to take them back.
Don’t be offended. Just go do what it takes to get the insurance and wear the helmets and tell your good trainer friends to do the same. We don’t want to see a mayonnaise jar at the feed store with your picture on it.
Of course I am offended. Your original post implied that Courntey doesn’t deserve help because she rides expensive horses which means that she must have plenty of money and because she is fortunate enough to have time to ride. Well I ride six figure horses every single day and I am dirt poor. Your reply involved wearing a helmet. Well, I wasn’t wearing a helmet when I got kicked in the head body clipping (who wears a helmet for that?) or when I got this dent in my thigh also while body clipping. I was, however wearing a helmet when I ruptured a ligament in my shoulder and when I got permament muscle and nerve damage in my other leg. That helmet sure didn’t make a difference. Is it ok by your standards to help out a trainer whose back is broken in an accident? That can’t be blamed on the trainer because it isn’t their fault for not wearing a helmet. What about a construction worker who gets injured on the job??? Are they worthy? What about you? You probably drive a car. That is much more risky than sitting on a horse. What if your insurance doesn’t cover all of your medical bills, loss of work, etc?
There’s no pictures of the horses at the end of the video any more – or is that just something special for me?
I live too far away (in Eugene/Springfield area of Oregon) but damn does that sound like SO MANY people I know around here. Ugh.
Not you – they wimped out and edited.
I don’t know that they wimped out and edited, KGW is constantly taking new video to make the same story seem like it has an update. Not sure it was intentional on their part.
Also, if they did not have her permission to film and televise her horses, I think that puts them in a legal bind. They might have had to remove the footage.
If you email KGW and ask for the footage, they may be able to offer an explanation regarding why they are no longer airing it.
I’d think roadkill on a public road would be fair game for anybody to film, but oops, there I go using common sense again in a society where it is far from common again. I mean, not like it’s the paparazzi filming a celebrity and making false statements or anything.
Yes, the footage of dead horses on the road they’re still showing (or were last time I watched). The footage they removed is from when they walked down the street to the owner’s property and filmed her pastured, living horses who were thin with matted hair. If KGW did not get consent to film those animals and air the footage, then I think they have to remove the footage/no longer air it at the owner’s request.
It’s not the unfortunate dead horses that they removed from the video, it was the ones that were living in unfortunate circumstances.
I watched without sound, but this video looks like it has the Marge person being quickly interviewed (and footage of the surviving horses).
http://www.katu.com/news/86610172.html
“A cougar spooked them”??? A fecking cougar??? This Marge lady is completely mental.
Jaysus, the poor truck driver. I hit a golden retriever 25 years ago and I’m still not over it (dark, rainy night – pooch chasing oncoming cars). Nightmare.
Actually, in order to get to the highway, the horses had to do one of two things: either run about 1/2 mile down the road and cross a bridge, AWAY from the grass that’s just down the street and on the sides of the road or they had to cross a fairly large creek. Neither of which is a particularly usual thing for a horse to do on its own. Even though it’s pretty far-fetched to believe that those horses knew what they were doing, it is an awful wierd coincidence that those animals went where they did.
To answer an earlier question, in Oregon, owners can be fined and ticketed for a) loose livestock and b) damage done by said livestock.
Like I said earlier, I hope they fine her to the teeth.
I can remember when I was 12, driving by that house with my Mom, on our way to visit a family friend that lived just down the road from that mess. Anyway, my nose was pressed to the glass looking at all those skinny horses. Our Friends actually boarded a horse with her for a while, but she got too skinny so they brought her home. I also remember that, at the time, our friends were concerned about the County coming out and confiscating horses, including theirs, which was the other reason they brought their horse home.
It’s never seemed to matter what time of the year it was, that place was a muddy mess. But, again, no dead ones on the ground and no horse skinny enough to mandate removal. She keeps them just at the brink.
I think She, and Jason Meduna, should be sentenced to a lifetime of two slices of bread and a cup of water twice a day. Just enough not to starve to death, but also not enough to be anywhere satisfied. They should feel the pain of an empty stomach.
Hey, I volunteer with Clackamas County as a Child Advocate (for abused/neglected kids once they are in foster care) and let me tell you, we also have to go by the “Minimally Sufficient Standard of Care” for returning the child to their parents (or whoever abused/neglected them in the first place). It’s not that high of a standard and I can’t imagine that it would be much higher for horses, who are considered livestock.
I know a bunch of cops in the area, though, so I will start bitching at them incessantly.
How hard would it be for an AC person to find a horse person and ask them to come along to look at the horses, and give their educated opinion? I would be more than happy to accompany any officer to any suspected abuse/neglect site, and write a full, detailed report on what I observed. I’m pretty sure that most genuine horsepeople would be happy to do the same.
Makes me kind of want to start a Horse Advocate group, that would act just like a Child Advocate, but for horses.
What are you waiting for?! Start it! Wouldn’t everyone love this to become the Pretty Pony blog instead of the Fugly blog because there simply is nothing fugly left to bitch about? This is how all good ideas get started…by someone starting them.
http://www.oregonhorsewelfarecouncil.com/
A good place to start. Lots of law enforcement and community envolvement. Unfortunately the meetings are always on a week day, so I haven’t been able to go since I got the new job. I know they are working on starting a Northwest Oregon chapter which would cover the Colton area for sure.
From Judith Nelson – Our new Northwest Oregon Chapter of the OHWC is meeting on Friday March 12 at the Clackamas Community Club, located just east of the 205 freeway off of exit 12. Address: 15711 SE 90th, Clackamas, Oregon. (There will be signs). The meeting will go from 11 AM to around 2PM. Light refreshments will be served.
If you plan to go you might just RSVP to Judith so they don’t get completely swamped unexpectedly. I don’t want to give her email out without permission, so just email me at horsedreams @ ymail.com (remove spaces) and I’ll pass the message along. Wish i could be there, but my stupid job means that I can’t.
I just watched the video this morning — there wasn’t any footage of the live horses, or any closeups of any horses. Did they edit that out? If so, that is TERRIBLE journalism.
They sure did. Wimps.
Hate to tell ya, but I don’t know if we have any real journalism left anywhere…one reason why this blog exists. Everyone is so scared to hurt anyone’s widdle feelings that we seldom read anything that has not been PC’d and blanded to death. No one can just tell the NEWS without diluting it or distorting it.
Pretty sure you should be able to get BBC World News….unbiased (actually, a bit pro USA biased, but I guess that would be OK?) and a-political if you are not British (ie we can notice the bias, but it is unlikely that you would be able to).
I found a link that has Marge on camera … http://www.katu.com/news/86610172.html?tab=video
OT– Anyone see the horse on the front page of Bing today? Thin, and those feet! It bums me out to think that tourists, or anyone online will see that and think “ooooh pretty horse” and not know that it’s health is not maintained. Even more, it bums me out that it looks like it would be a really nice horse if it were in good condition!
What video are you guys seeing? I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone… The link shown in the post leads to a print story and a video that shows no horses at all, other than two dead ones seen in a very distant aerial view. They talk about live horses and show 911 calls, but they don’t show a live horse, not even for a moment. I’ve watched 5 times trying to figure out how you guys are seeing horses with rastafarian manes… or see the conditions on the owner’s property. Huh? The video in the post just shows aerial photos of an accident scene and an interview with a woman who helped catch the survivors. There is a link to see “photos,” but it only leads to four more aerial photos of the accident scene. Please let me know what video you’re watching that shows the conditions of the live horses…
They edited the video. HA. What a joke.
That’s all I was able to see too–so do you mean, the NEWS ORGANIZATION EDITED THE VIDEO?!!!!!
If so, what has happened to journalism–disgusting–it’s supposed to be the third pillar of our society, accountable to the first amendment.
http://www.katu.com/news/86610172.html?tab=video
At the end of this one, which has been posted by two people besides me, there’s film of a good Samaritan loading two of the surviving horses into her trailer. I just watched it @ 9 am Mountain time today (Sun).
Ruthie
Video of her horses – the ones alive – no longer on the site. The video ends with a comment about her meeting minmum requirements, then nothing. No live horses.
Waayyyy Off Topic…
but apparently people think Barbaro was a human…
Here is a link I found on a forum I am on.
http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/2007/01/beating_a_dead__1.html
LOL. I never have gotten the hero worship of this particular horse. I mean, he was a lovely horse, and I’m very sorry he couldn’t be saved and he had a good personality and I probably would have liked him. But that is true for a LOT of Thoroughbreds. Thoroughbreds break down literally every single day. Stop crying and go rescue one that still has 4 good legs and is going to slaughter anyway. Jane Smiley, quoted in that article, threw HER mare out like the trash at an auction. Why didn’t she worry about her?
Damned to an eternity of fire and brimstone are those who refuse to accept the Bay one as their lord and savior, and worship at the alter of Barbaro.
Freaking loons. If they love Barbaro so much they need to go to a rescue and muck a stall in his honor. Or buy a bale of hay and leave it at the sacraficial alter (the barn door of any good rescue that takes in OTTBs).
The whole Barbaro fiasco was a travesty. I have personally seen horses with his EXACT injury, and nobody who cares about a horse would keep it alive after seeing a “spagetti noodle” leg flapping around. When you are looking at that injury in person the vet cannot get there fast enough to put it down. As recently as last year there were flowers being delivered to Barbaro care of NBC’s front desk on the anniversary of his death. PEOPLE ACTUALLY SEND FLOWERS TO A DEAD HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you really care so much then donate that money to a TB rescue. Don’t even get me started on the huge amount of money that the Jacksons donated to founder research in Barbaro’s name. Now the sickos at NBC can induce founder on research horses to see what happens while stuffing sweetfeed into lateral founder cases in the clinic. Here’s your founder research: don’t grain a foundering horse.
Yeah, sending flowers to a dead horse is CRAZY. For god’s sake, send the money to a decent rescue to help a LIVE horse!
I lurk on the ABR board sometimes, though its a scary place. Some of the questionable things that happen there have been discussed on other posts. To be fair, it seem as though Barbaro inspired a lot of people to try to rescue thoroughbreds, and other horses. But I can’t stand it when I read stuff like “The magickal spirit of Barbaro spoke to me and inspired me to send money to some rescue I know absolutely nothing about”..
Actually I am in the “he should have been destroyed at the track” brigade. I was aghast (ed) at what they put him through!
I thought at first some wonder modern piece of surgery had been used, when I realised they used the exact same methods they used on Mill Reef all those years ago (and a foreleg, which could have been amputated and that was considered) I was speechless.
Again.
GREED.
Pure and simple.
The horse is not “a fighter” or “brave” the horse is in a world of pain and drug induced haze….it looks to us to sort these things as we have taken away it’s ability to run away.
What do we do?
We cause it to endure pain in exactly the same way we force our terminally ill humans to endure pain.
At the moment we can do nothing about the humans, but we have a duty of care to look after the animals.
If you cannot bear to hold your horse whilst it is shot, do NOT buy a horse.
If you cannot afford to have an animal put down, for whatever reason, do NOT have an animal.
Well, I had no problem with it for these reasons:
1. They could afford the care and weren’t asking for handouts.
2. The horse simply did not appear miserable in the videos. He really didn’t. Clearly they were drugging him up enough.
3. What they did learn from trying to save him will probably save other horses – and he was with the very best vets money could buy.
4. When they DID see him change – when he WAS miserable – they did the right thing.
I do agree that the horse is no more a “fighter” than any other living being. We all have an instinct to survive. The entire incident was romanticized far too much. People sent treats (which he did not need, his owners were rich and more than able to buy them) to Barbaro while hundreds of other deserving Thoroughbreds went to kill.
Oh, yeah. If all those Barbaro lovers would get their heads out of… oops. If St. Barbaro would inject some reality into their “unicorns and fairies” thinking, think how many OTTBs could be saved. If they sent the $$ they spend on useless things like flowers to our friend Joe, marked “in memory of Barbaro,” they’d REALLY be honoring his memory.
Especially if it keeps the money out of the hands of the hoarder-rescues and other bad actors.
Ruthie, compassionate and hard-nosed
I agree with Kirri on all points made. I think they had a TON of money to make if they could only get him well enough to go to the breeding shed. I think any lesser horse would have been behind the barn in a render pile. That’s what I thought at the beginning of the whole saga and still do. I think it’s sickening how many people think so highly of this garbage, but then they would likely do the same to a person. I’ve seen that happen too.
I sure hope the drive and trucking company (or himself if he is self owned) sues the living crap out of her! Maybe they can force her to sell her property and the horses and save them from that life.
Everyone is darned lucky that it was a log truck that hit them, not a personal car. That is how people die. My late husband was a firefighter and told me a horrible story of a lady that hit a loose horse at night. She was killed instantly..when the horse came through the windshield.
I agree. There should be a civil lawsuit. The driver/company will win it for sure – the law’s pretty clear on damages from loose livestock. And I truly do feel VERY sorry for the driver. What a thing to see. The stuff nightmares are made of.
The driver should also sue for post traumatic stress, even if, at the moment, he does not have it, it could pop up out of nowhere.
I know people joke about this, but, honestly, he seems like a ordinary, no nonsense sort of guy, and those are the sort that get hit the worst.
Supposing one day he just can’t drive….what then?
That’s not a joke at all. I can totally see even a “big tough guy” having issues after having to see his truck literally tear a large animal in half.
In my experiences living in Portland Oregon and showing in the state for the past 20 plus years is this. If you leave a horse tied to your trailer for more than two or three hours , even with food & water, you’ll have them seized by animal control. not kidding here , seen it done. But when you have starving ones abound like this , it takes an act of God to get the people to move on it. My husband and I rescued an TB from a dink who went on vacation and assumed his friend would just come over & feed & water him. The poor horse was a 1300 lb in shape gorgeous TB off track and when this bastard came home the horse was never fed or watered for two and a half weeks, he survived on bull thistles and mud puddles for food & water. When I got him he was covered in mud , shit and weighed approximately 850lbs, with thrush so severe his feet bled when you tried to clean them. The bastard brought this horse back to the track to put back into race training in this shape and I blasted his ass and he gave me the horse . I took him to a boarding stable off the track to care for him and I was almost accused of starving him but the folks there couldn’t figure out why I had fat & healthy horses too and they still had animal control on my ass! I told them the story and thank god they believed me. I have photos of this horse still. He was 16:3 h and a rack of bones, it took me & my husband three months to get this horse looking normal and healthy again and we made sure he got a loving home for life. He lived the rest of his life like the king he was. But animal control only works when the folks that are employed there are educated enough to know what is an exceptable healthy weight of the animals they are helping and the means & money to do so. Clackamas County is huge and full of idiots and naive morons with animals and is over whelmed with calls from well intentioned people who want nothing better than to help animals.
So sorry for the horses and driver.
Loose horses on road !! Horror goes through your head as you hear the clatter of hooves on the pavement.
Last year, living on property where the driveway came out on the road on a hairpin turn, steep, twisty ect. Landowner was such a shit his and his sister’s horses hated him. Twice while I was there they got loose and and the idiot would try to chase them with his ATV!! Luckily, no damages but WTF. One of them took a short cut down the steep embankment with downed barbed wire.
Many years ago, HWY 1 on the Pacific Coast goes from 4 lane divided freeway to 2 lane, no divider, in a steep cut of hill. I’m driving and see 2 white horses coming at me in the middle of the road. I had enough time to screech to a halt, jump out and wave to coming traffic. They turned back and took the steep hill back in the direction they came, back to the ranch but shit, scared the living crap out of me. People were driving by thinking I was waving for the fun of it. Then there was my friends gelding who got free of the lead line cause a dog came out barking. Watching him flat out RUN down the road, couldn’t do a thing about it, we’d never catch him. He DID end up getting hit but everyone survived, with minor injuries. His back legs went under the front end and his fronts were on the hood. The driver saw him coming and stopped right before he hit.
That hoarder needs this exposure, too sad the cost. But that shit needs to STOP!
This is totally off-topic, but I was hoping that maybe you could do a post about what you’ve found to be the best way of dealing with a horse’s arthritis. My guy has been getting progressively more stiff, and the variety of options–from medications, to steroids, to supplements, to natural herb mixtures–is intimidating, to say the least. Or, if you could just leave a comment here or send me an e-mail at lauraallisonday@yahoo.com, that would be greatly appreciated also. Thank you!
Stay natural as long as you possibly can. BL solution is a wonderful thing, as is 24/7 turnout. Next I’d go to Adequan. I honestly hate joint injections with a passion and think they often do more harm than good. And I despite steroids.
Oh, and truly high quality shoeing can work miracles. Pay the money for the best farrier – you’ll get your money’s worth.
Fugly’s right. I have arthritis of the base of my thumbs. I had shots from an excellent hand doc. The ones on my right thumb worked well for a time, but the one on the left thumb hit something it shouldn’t have. And they don’t prevent further damage, either.
My mare with the arthritic knee was helped by glucosamine/MSM for several years, but is now getting oral bute 3 times a week. Her date with the big needle is rapidly approaching. (sob)
Ruthie
More than any supplement can do – Exercise! Get those joints moving – keep them moving. As an owner of a 25yo OTTB who will be competing A shows this year (dressage 1st, 2nd and hopfully 3rd). Regular (6 day a week) exercise has kept him going.
He has arthritis (what OTTB doesn’t) and a old bone chip from his race days. He’s on no supplements (although we tried them all – no difference). His owner is on Ibuprofen. The horse may very well outlive his owner.
Ibuprofen for horses might be a good thing.
A supplement called ‘SmartFlex Senior’ might be worth trying. It does not work for every horse, but I have seen it transform a 17 year old from ‘barely able to walk and trot with a 40 pound rider up’ to ‘sound for flat work’. He has the occasional off/sore day, but most of the time he’s sound. And amazing. It’s a real shame, because somebody really trained this horse well at some point, but to be arthritic at 17…
Again, it doesn’t always work, but when it does it seems to work very well…it’s a natural proprietary mix. I’m not sure what’s in it other than glucosamine.
oh my god!! are u people serious?
Cathy and this lynch mobbed mentality of posters — DID YOU EVEN DO YOUR HOMEWORK ABOUT MARGE SMITH AND WHO SHE REALLY IS???
did any of u go to the Al Khamsa Horsemen site on Yahoo.com and read what Marge, herself, wrote?
there are too many people that know her, know of her, respect her and understand that what happened yesterday isnt/wasnt her fault. the skinny horses were rescues. betcha didnt know that…
oh – YOU DIDNT DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
another one of the calls to her place had to do with a rubber tire round pen she had built and later when the laws changed she had to take it down. that was an ac call.
betcha didnt know that either.
YOU DIDNT DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
go and read her own words, the words of the other breeder’s that have supported, sold and kept her friendship over the yrs.
ive kept a watchful eye on the fugly site ever since another farm was put under the evil eye here for a misquote about the farm owners opinion over the slaughter issue.
again – i came in and put a stop to the crap on that farm too.
what is up with u people here? are u so bored that u will take anything negative, in this case, horrifying, and blow it so out of perportion that it becomes a story within itself?
why dont all of you go to this link http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AKHorsemen/ and do some needed reading.
then when u are done — come back here and offer your apologies.
how dare you make such cruel and erroneous comments about someone u dont even know. who the hell are you people?
cathy – u really fucked up this time. the way you presented the story on your site — you painted the whole situation as the most abominable byb horse hoarding person to date. REALLY????
did u wait a good couple of days before presenting the real story with Marge’s own words to back it up?
umm, no.
this is exactly what u did before on the slaughter issue and i called u out on it -and u dropped the whole thing like a bad bag of stink – of which it still is.
gonna try for number 3 story and get it wrong too? this will be a good watch this time.
bah!
f.
ROTFL! ROTFL! ROTFL!
They were RESCUES. That’s what they ALL say when they get busted!
Honey, why are people on this blog right now talking about how this woman has been a HUGE problem for a LONG time if what you say is true?
Pull your head out of your ass…sorry if she’s your buddy, she’s still taking crappy care of horses.
Oh, and if you think I “dropped” the slaughter issue, you might want to pick up this month’s Horse Illustrated.
Well, that went like crap. I really should try to learn how to use blog tags. Try this:
“Yes, the TV did a number on me, they picked out the worst to show. The horses that got out where not on my property, but a friends pasture and he was watching over them for me. My son and I where planning to work on my fences this spring. We hope to get the place up to code after the loss of my husband, but it will take time. Yes they showed a dark bay that is 25-30 years old. He is not mine, but belongs to the owner of the pasture. They also showed several special needs horses that where chestnut. Sorry they are not all perfect and easy to care for.
The neglect issue is from some rescue horses that I took in over the years, not mine.
The property issue is when I was fighting to keep a training ring make out of tires. A safe place to work green horses. I had it for many years, but the county changed the laws. The tires have since been removed, I lost the war. Things are not perfect, but the horses are not dying from lack of food and they are worm often and have regular hoof care.
Hope eveyone has a good day.
marge
What special need results in their manes and tails being big solid mats?
BTW Marge, they have safe places to work green horses called ROUND PENS. You can buy them used for $600 – $700. If you don’t have $600 – $700, this should be clue #1 you are not able to afford a horse breeding operation.
“The neglect issue is from some rescue horses that I took in over the years, not mine.”
So, are you saying that rescue horses you have taken in over the years *still* look like “rescue” horses? That sure is a confusing statement.
Does this sound like a long list of limp excuses to anyone else? For me, it does…you just don’t keep on acquiring/breeding animals when things are obviously falling apart. I have rescued animals over the years too, and not once has anyone complained about mine. And they don’t look like rescue animals for long, because I *rescue* them, not relocate and let them continue as they were.
Hay Drama Troll!
Maybe “U” should do “UR” homework, that “UR” buddy’s horses could have used hay and water.
Dear Lord preserve us from people like you!
I have absolutely NO axe to grind here, I do not even live on the same continent, and I can see that she has third rate animals and far too many of them, from the good pictures!!!
It’s weird how people will protect someone, isn’t it?
Almost a syndrome in itself as we know that hoarders always have advocates.
So, what is your excuse?
Do you know her personally, and know her animals need help, and have not helped them?
RESCUES??
Oh my life, so, how come she was not shouting that out on the news because, had it been true, you just KNOW she would have been.
EXCUSE!!!!
Are you serious? A yahoo group? Since when does a person starting their own web group make it fact? BTW, you put up a link that no one can read unless they are a member of the group. Most legit groups let anyone read their posts, you only have to be a member to post. Why is this group closed? My guess is because it is a group of Marge’s friends. Anyone can look at the pictures of the facilities in the news coverage and tell these horses are not housed properly. So where did all of these rescues come from? How long has she had them? Why aren’t they featured on her website? Why are they kept in mud with substandard fencing? When I take in a rescue, it is cleaned up and groomed by the next day. What good is a rescue that does nothing to improve the life of the horse?
FYI – With a bottle of showsheen, a pair of scissors and a main & tail comb you can remove equine dreadlocks in about an hour.
Why don’t you go do your own homework and learn how to put grammar, punctuation and spelling in order? Go on, your junior high Warriner’s is calling you now, go study for a pop quiz tomorrow and leave the Internet to us big girls. Run along.
Ooooh f. thank you soooo much for setting us straight! And thank you so much for putting that big bad meanie Cathy in check and setting her straight on all those other issues you mentioned too. We are so lucky to have someone of your intellect to tell us what to think. You even provided us with that bitchin’ Yahoo link, and we know if you read it on Yahoo it’s gospel. We are forever indebted to you and your infinite wisdom.
Okay, now seriously, why is it AC has been to Marge Smith’s residence not one but SIX seperate occasions before this incident? Why were there skinny/wormy horses shown in the news reports? Not just the ones on the farm but the ones being shown loaded into the trailer? Why where they a muddy, shit covered, matted mess? Why did her barn and pastures look like a filthy pigsty? Now moving off of Marge Smith patron saint of horse neglect and on to you…
This is a blog, not a text message you moron. U mke urself lok lk a fking dumass when u lve replies lk that. No one on here will ever take you seriously. Look around, we use punctuation, proper capitolization, full words with proper spelling and correct grammer. Reading your idiocy gives people like us headaches. We are not a bunch of teeny bopper idiots on Yahoo Answers, which I’m sure is more on your level. So do us all a favor and go back over there and keep telling all the little wannabes how kyoooot that 2 year old stallion is they can’t seem to talk their mummy into buying. And while you’re over there see if one of them will loan you their high school english text book, you obviously need it.
From the tone of your so-stupid-I-pissed-myself-a-little-laughing-while-reading-it reply you consider yourself quite the little badass. Not so much, little girl, I eat twits like you for lunch. Now go crawl back under your bridge you little troll bitch, the big dogs don’t wanna play with you.
Okay I get the whole minimum requirements but what I don’t understand about AC is don’t they get on-going training? Someone in an earlier post said they would be happy to go with AC as an experienced horse person and write a detailed report on conditions. Shouldn’t AC be doing that? I am not naive enough to think that all officers have the animals best interests at heart. I am sure many of the AC officers are just putting in time in a job they hate until they can retire but really they should receive ongoing training b/c we all know people who abuse/neglect children, spouses, the elderly, animals are always coming up with new ways to hide the abuse/neglect and AC should keep abreast of the information.
From her web sit : a small farm that “specializes in Al Khamsa Arabians and high-precentage Arabian Palaminos”
If you are going to specialize in something, perhaps you should first learn how to spell it. And then, you need to learn how to breed it. I saw a ton of chesntuts on her web page. Ever notice the crappier the farm, the more stallions they are proudly offering to the public? Why IS that?
Breeding for Al Khamsa and Sheik Obeyd are kind of red flags for Arab breeders. It isn’t that the horses are bad, necessarily, just that the people who breed them tend to be more concerned about rare bloodlines than about performance and trainability. Often times a pretty face and rare bloodlines= breeding stock. Very similar to the crazy color breeders who will breed ANY cremello or pinto. A lot of these AK people are also into breeding for black.
Sheykh Obeyd breeding is a FLAG for arab breeders…??? Actually, three quarters of the arab breeders I’ve met have never even heard of a Sheykh Obeyd. Apparently 2/3 of the ones who have heard of it, are so familiar with them that they cannot even spell it correctly…
Sheykh Obeyd breeders are some of the few breeders who haven’t jumped on the fad breeding… you know… the giraffe necked, dog snouted, parrot mouthed (or monkey faced), flaggy tailed, over at the knees, clubfooted, crooked legged monstrosities that currently grace our halter show ring… not to mention there are only about 5 granddaddies at best who have offspring in the ring.
Babson arabians are Sheykh Obeyd. Pritzlaff arabians are Sheykh Obeyd. Bentwood farms had their fair share of Sheykh Obeyds. Sheykh Obeyd blood figures highly in the pedigrees of Ravenwood Arabians. I could go on… but the list would be endless. Not one of those breeders chased the fads… but each and every one of them, to this day, is KNOWN for producing good, athletic, sound, intelligent, gentle animals.
Yup… we’re the crazies of the arab world… :s
I love Pritzlaff Arabians. Not only useful, but super pretty headed!
Here is another one that will make you puke.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1288258609892&ref=nf
This is very local to me. There is a phone number listed in the comments so that we are all able call the owners of this horse at their vacation getaway in Arizona and tell them to get their asses home and look after her.
OT for this but how about an article on starting your kids around horses? Like I want to start taking my 15mo out to ride with me (and the Scottsdale show allows them to show lead line @ the age of 2… sooo…. at least that’s what I’ve been told) and am buying him a helmet before I take him out. But there are so many people who don’t make their kids wear helmets, proper clothing, footwear… maybe what is a good age to start them on horses… safe ways to manage a little one around horses, etc!
The best age to start kids around horses is the age when the kids PAY ATTENTION AND DO WHAT YOU TELL THEM.
Brilliant. And exactly on target!
That is in my neck of the woods and the BO where I keep my mare knows a plenty about this woman. She has been complained about numerous times due to her horses continuously getting loose.
She had the audacity to tell KPTV that her horses most likely got spooked by a cougar and jumped the fence. Pffffttt!
Hopefully she gets the remainder taken away from her so they can be fed. So sad.
She has been complained about numerous times due to her horses continuously getting loose.
Just as the person said in the news video. Yes, it can happen to anyone but when it happens repeatedly, you are irresponsible and there is something wrong with your facilities (or they’re hungry). Hungry horses get out a LOT. Dean Solomon’s were always getting loose.
Not sure if I’m over-reacting to this, but poor Vanner. He catches his legs or almost falls on a good majority of jumps, she lets him run over downed electric tape, and her hands bounce at the canter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_QAaSk1kXE
I haven’t ridden for many years, and didn’t jump much when I did- I could only stand to watch about a minute of that video- the big thing I saw is that she is actually holding the horse’s head up in the air- he can’t see the jump, and can’t use his head and neck to get over. Painful to watch- she should be grabbing mane, or better yet, getting some instruction.
At one point I’d swear she’s trying to post the canter.
Ugh, terrible with that poor pony/Vanner. Let’s take a cart horse and overface him at some jumps! He clearly couldn’t jump whatever height those fences were — he was trying hard, but as you can see he refused, fell over them, and generally couldn’t handle it — he kept trying though, poor guy. He seemed ok at jumping, but I would be back jumping low caveletti and doing a bit more gymnastics before asking him to jump single 2′ or higher crossrails (or combinations!). Frankly, he was a nice pony that looked like he should be taking people for trail rides or pulling a cart. And of course, all her friends were praising her riding. Gah.
That whole channel is a trainwreck. I honestly believe some of the videos on there are worse than that Vanner one, because it shows many girls riding in a similar manner and another jumping Vanner…this is a barn problem, not just one person. There are several videos of her jumping her ISH off of ground that’s torn up and muddy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3LMAq1jEbU
There’s another video that’s just…wow. One horse slides I’m going to say about a foot as he’s trying to jump and he lands on the jump. There’s another horse in the video, a little Haflinger, who nearly goes down after attempting a small vertical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKWQiGXBBk
THEN…on a video of the Vanner posted two years ago, she has clips of him jumping but says not to “crit” because the clips are two years ago, so filmed around 2006. In another video, she says that the Vanner’s passport says he was born in 2003…so she was jumping the poor thing at three.
I really need to stop before I strangle that barn through my computer screen.
Ah, sigh. She’s kinda of a laughing stock of the Arabian breeders world. Her horses are all genetic chestnuts, we ALL know there is no such thing as a palomino Arabian. Just can’t happen. Ever. Her horses aren’t even that well bred as she claims them to be. Just another nutjob ruining the name of the Arabian.
I am so sorry for the truck driver, I do hope his company sues her. As for the horses, sorry to say that they met a better end. Better to be smashed and killed than to slowly starve under that woman’s care. I wonder what the Arabian Breeder’s Network is saying about this? Off to check……..
Huh, I saw 2 local news reports about horses this weekend. The first one was Karen Thomas of Enumclaw being charged with 1st degree animal cruelty for the horses and llamas who dropped dead of starvation on her property.
The second was this story with Marge Smith.
My first thought was, I bet her fences are shit. My next thought was, there must be more to this, and my dear guy who was watching with me agreed and said, “I bet you’ll hear more about it on Fugly Horse of Tonight.”
One of my most traumatic memories involving a horse getting out on the road and being hit involved a family a mile down the road from us (I lived in what was then a rural area, we could actually ride our horses along the country road, the traffic was light and people slowed down and paid attention!). Their horse got out one Sunday morning, and ran east toward a heavy development of homes about 2 miles down the road from her weed- and manure-filled pasture. I have no idea of the hows and whys, but I remember the aftermath.
The horse was hit by a car, and she laid along the roadside for two days until the county got the rendering truck to pick her up. I will never forget the sight of that poor mare lying there dead along the road across the street from a school bus stop. I don’t know who hit her, or the consequences. This was in the 1960s before people got sue-happy.
Her name was Punkin and she was a red dun. Whenever I see a red dun to this day I think of her.
According to Marge Smith the horses in poor condition are rescues she has taken in over the year’s. OVER THE YEAR’S????? The excuse for horses in horrid shape are always claimed to be rescues. How convienent of an excuse for these hoarder’s to make when horses look like concentration camp victims of the horse world. If you have taken in horses that were in poor shape over the year’s surely they should be in much better shape now?! It doesn’t take long for the condition of the horse to improve if you are feeding, vaccinating, and worming correctly. I believe her to be a hoarder of the worse sort since she continues to breed. All horses are evil in my mind but the one’s that allow and encourage breeding more poor quality animals to neglect really chap my hide. I believe the members of the commuity when they say this this woman has been up to no good for many years. I feel for the horses still in her care if you can even call it that.
That’s why I laughed so uproariously – because it’s like a broken record. The second the horses get thin ENOUGH to warrant attention, suddenly VOILA they are rescues.
I have my rescues up to weight within six months maximum, usually more like 2-3. There is no excuse to do otherwise. Certainly not age, or do I need to post pictures of the nearly forty year old fat toothless Appy my friend owns again?
Please do. I’m collecting pix of old, fat horses for a project I’m working on. I’d love to add it, if you’ll give me permission to use it. I’d also love pix of nursing mares, nice and fat. Yeah, it’s a pictorial guide for proving the excuses wrong. I’m hoping to produce a pamphlet for use by ACOs who aren’t “horsey.” Or a PDF.
Ruthie
Just a few examples:
Estimated age “pushing forty,” two teeth left, rescued in 2005 at a BCS of about 1.5. This is last summer.
Twenty four year old Thoroughbred mare. Good example of “swaybacked but not thin.” For those of you with good memories, this is my rescue from Fall 2008, Thai’s My Mama, in her new home. Excuse the alpaca nose, apparently they like cameras.
Yesterday I told some fellow boarders about these horse deaths that happened just down the road from our barn. One of them responded “I hope it wasn’t Marge’s place”. When I confirmed that it was she told me her experience with the facility. She said though the stallions are contained, the mares and foals have very unsafe living situations. About 6 years ago this person took her mare over there to have her bred. She said she spent hours in the pasture removing trash and other items that would harm her horse.
My barn owner said when she went to pick up that same mare from Marge’s place it was a garbage dump. In her words “garbage dumps are cleaner”.
I don’t know how well they were fed, but at least at that time it was an unsafe mess.
” She said she spent hours in the pasture removing trash and other items that would harm her horse.”
And stuff like that…it’s not like it costs money to walk around and pick up debris. What is the excuse for not doing it?
Amen, sister. Al Khamsa people are all about the genotype, not the phenotype! /eyeroll
For the occasional nice specimen, there are way too many weedy/high rumped/small (try 13.2)/ poorly conformed specimens out there being bred.
I never understood the value of genetics over function.
And You know: If the bloodlines are rare, there is probably a good reason for it.
LOL well, you know, that’s sometimes exactly the case. I said that about Sorraia Mustangs 3 years ago. Sometimes things are rare due to lack of demand!
When I belonged to the Al Khamsa board on Yahoo Groups I was constantly hounded to breed my mare every year due to her “rare” bloodlines. True, my mare did have some nice lines, BUT she never did anything. Hell, she was barely saddle trained. They are some great people on that board, but it’s true, most are just breeding to breed. Some do great things in Endurance but most have many horses that aren’t even trained. Train first, show first, breed LATER if you must. I’d never breed to a stallion that hasn’t accomplished anything more than eating and pooping.
I love the excuses for poor animal husbandry …let’s play hoarder bingo!
– they aren’t mine
– they are rescues
– someone else did it to them
– they are old
– I don’t get any help and I am a martyr to my cause, therefore I can’t take care of them
– they are sick and I am treating them
– none of my friends think anything is wrong, so butt out
– the vet said I was taking very good care of them
– as soon as the economy turns around, they will sell for a lot of money
– the hay/grain is coming later this week
– no one understands me
- I’ve been doing this since before you were born
- you just have a personal vendetta against me!
- it’s none of your business
- my husband left me
- my husband died
- my husband cheats on me
- I have
cancera bad hearta bad backhemorrhoidsa hangnail- I don’t usually take care of horses like this, we’ve just had a bad year (this is always followed by meeting people who knew her ten years ago who tell you, yep, she took shitty care of horses ten years ago too!)
Maybe we should just make it into a drinking game. That might make US feel a little better, anyway!
http://i45.tinypic.com/20sah5u.png
A tad wonky, but that’s what I get for doing it in MS paint while eating dinner.
I’ll bring the Tequila!
one more …
don’t point fingers at me, what have you ever done to help a horse?
It ceases to amaze me how these horse abusers, when exposed…on T.V. no less, can continue to lie and make excuses for starving and neglecting horses. I just wonder if they ever watch themselves on the news clips or read their own posts on this site or other sites or read their own depositions. Stupid BYB with falling down fence, starved horses with spines and ribs showing, cow hipped, nasty matted manes and tails, trash and debris all over the property…and I really liked the creative “jump”–throw and old white plastic lawn chair from Wal Mart into all the other debris and you’re good to go. Geeeezzzzz. Idiot. Marge, just be honest. You have no business with any horses. You are too lazy to own horses and I’m quite sure you do not have the financial resources to PROPERLY care for even one horse! My guess is your’e unemployed. Now your’e responsible for the deaths of these three mares. You are very lucky that some people in cars and/or trucks weren’t killed due to your negligence. …and AC there states that investigations of her in the past have shown that she meets minimum standards…MINIMUM STANDARDS in this state must be that in order to have a horse on your property there must be DIRT there. Nothing else required.
Yes, I am angered by this. I rescued one of my horses (OTTB) from a situation just like this. Took me a year of dealing with the crazy hoarder and lots of cash. He was a 2 on the Henneke scale. Her mantra was…”You can’t keep weight on a Thoroughbred!” REALLY…try food. She told me this about a million times and her best friend confirmed it because she was also starving horses. Low lifes.
“Try food” – LOL! So true. By the way, already posted a FAT 24 year old TB to this thread. These people are first time horse owners and they are doing it just fine. And she gets brushed constantly. No matted nasty tail and mane for her!
Yes, I saw her and she looks GREAT! My 16 yr. old OTTB gelding gets the best of everything now. He’s with us here at our home for the rest of his life. He’s spoiled rotten and quite a character. My vet tells me, when he dies, he wants to come back as my horse! He was still racing at 10 and then through a series of unfortunate events…fell into a crazy hoarder’s hands. It was just a fluke that I saw him standing in a foot of manure with no hay or water or shelter and it was beginning to snow…let me stop or I’ll start to cry just thinking about it. I have zero tolerance for starving and abusing animals. No gray areas. No punishment is too harsh for these cruel, worthless……….
I just looked at the Debra Potscheider (sp?) video with the overo lying in the bloody snow. She seems to have done everything except call a vet. I don’t get it. The first thing you do is call the vet. I never met a sheriff who could suture a cut or diagnose a ruptured tendon.
OOOH! I used to know one of those. The “oh, he’s a thoroughbred (or old)” type. Or she would simply say, “that horse doesn’t need more food, he’s fat” while looking at BCS of 3. How do you even try to have a legit discussion with that? Her farm actually looked a lot like good old Marge’s… maybe even worse.
“…that horse doesn’t need more food, he’s fat” while looking at BCS of 3…Ummm NO! A big worm belly doesn’t mean the horse is fat…..unless you are a horse abuser/starver, then they all use this same line. What really gets to me is the common thread that runs through these derelicts. Do they look at that bloated worm belly and actually believe the horse is fat??? How do they account for the ribs, withers, cow hips, top line???? They all use the same excuses and they’re all delusional. Yes, I got to hear that one about my OTTB…he hadn’t been wormed in the 2 yrs. she had him standing in manure with other horses. He was very anemic….Oh, and did I mention she had many, many children and she was on welfare, food stamps, etc.? Yeah, you need horses, ponies, dogs, cats, exotic birds, rabbits, hamsters, gerbgils and on and on….
They DO! I have met so many people who look at the worm belly and say the horse is fat!
Uh, no. Look at the topline. Even in an old, swaybacked horse, the hips and back will be round when the horse is in good condition. Only the withers will still stick up.
I have personal experience with that one..My own brother. Who for what unknown reason bought my nephew a horse. My brother knows nothing about horses, except to jump on them and yell YAH! On a trip back home for one holiday, I went to see the new horse and was horified. Worm belly for sure with protruding ribs and hips. I immediately went to the feed store and bought some zimectrin gold and some supplements (they were feeding the poor thing but yeesh). Anyway gave the stuff to my brother, who immediately went on about how fat she was. My poor nephew said “Wow you bought the goodstuff.” I just rolled my eyes because my brother & I never have had a close relationship (you can never tell him anything because he knows best). Anyway to make a long story shorter, a few days later my brother called to say I was right (i was floored at that admission). The poor mare apparently expelled “several handfuls” of worms. (eww) After that, the mare gain weight & guess what? “She became spunky and too spirited” for my nephew to ride anymore. Bless that little mare’s heart. She finally had enough energy to actually do something. Anyway, my brother wound up trading the poor thing for a dirtbike. Talk about embarassing. He would have been a walking ad for craigslist. Thank God that is over. PS I never allowed him to touch my horses growing up. Thankfully he is 8 years older then me and was out of the house when I was growing up.
Off topic, but thought y’all would find this as….um, horrific as I did. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/1632684096.html
Sigh……
:0( The breed doesn’t make it ok to ride at 20 months. “Tri colored” pinto, man some people are just out there.
“You just have a personal vendetta”….. Ah, my favorite. Because we all know that those hate vibes are the cause of your horses starving.
Don’t forget “but they would have been slaughtered without meeeee!”
Had to share this one as I have no words…
http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/1633221315.html
Thank you guys so much! He’s on 24/7 pasture right now, but has been hanging out in the barn a lot this especially cold and weathery winter, so maybe that has some to do with his recent achiness. He gets his hooves trimmed regularly, but has always been barefoot. Would getting shoes help him? I’ll definitely pick up some of the BL solution and see if that gets him moving better. He hasn’t gotten enough exercise this winter, and that’s my fault. Now that the snow’s finally melted, I can start taking him for regular walks, and as soon as he acts like he feels a little better, we’ll start leisure riding again. Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it.
There was a time when a community would work together to support a widow and to ensure she and her livestock were ok. There was a time when neighbours would lend a hand if they saw fences in disrepair.
Now it is all about being a tattle tail and dancing on the grave of someones dream.
perhaps your blog would be more helpful to make the world a better place if it encouraged helping rather than judging.
I help horses. That’s who I care about helping. HUMANS always have OPTIONS…like selling horses they cannot handle caring for and NOT MAKING MORE.
See, if I lost my husband and he was my sole means of support, which you seem to be insinuating, the FIRST thing I would do is stop breeding horses. Then I would actively pursue finding a JOB so that I could support my remaining horses while I dispersed down to a point where I could care for them properly based upon the income I was able to reliably count on taking in.
Sorry…got no sympathy for people who refuse to proactively respond to the bad things that happen in their life…bad things happen to all of us. The difference is that a horse has no ability to act to improve their situation. They are always at the mercy of their owner. I would hazard a guess that a higher percentage of the people reading this blog are actively spending money on rescue horses than the people on your favorite hang-out, Horsetopia. We are helping. That’s why we’re pissed.
but can’t you see? you could help both! Horses and humans. I don’t know this case, and mybe she is a horrid person, but perhaps she is just someone who needed help to get through a tough time. Perhaps you could do a blog about horse community spirit; hepling those in trouble before the rescues need to be involved. prevention rather than rescue. Isn’t that the ultimate goal, to make rescuing unneeded?
The problem is that I have seen the community try to help in these cases, and 99.9% of the time here is what happens:
Person in need: Help! My horses don’t have hay! I lost my job/husband/health!
Kind community: OK. Here is some help. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Person in need: Oh, great! OK things are fine now. I shall breed back all of my mares and still not look for a job. Things are getting better, President Obama said so! Surely I will magically sell all of these new foals for the zillions of dollars they are worth.
I’d LOVE it if people went, wow, how great, a helping hand, and then used that “breathing room” to make real changes and ensure they didn’t get in trouble again. But sadly, 99 times out of 100, what I just described above is what happens. Sorry about the cynicism, but I’m cynical because I see it happen again…and again…and again.
Hording is caused by mental illness 99% of the time. People like this Marge lady will always have problems even if someone helps her out. Then she’ll just expect it time and time again. Fact of the matter is that you can tell how people are by the way they treat their land. In this case her land is a MESS! Meaning she has no business even owning horses on that alone. I’d hate to see the condition of HER house.
It always seems like to me that people with the messy garbage filled places breed a million horses a year. Why is that?
If you are talking about a situation where someone is in a TEMPORARY and ONE-TIME bad situation, your advice makes sense. However, we would only know that was the case by being acquainted with the person and knowing them for a period of time. Usually, that would mean the person was a friend, and you or I WOULD want to help our deserving friend. The situations that come up on this blogsite and which seem to happen over and over are those cases where people have been mistreating animals for YEARS. If you have read this thread, for instance, you will have noticed that people have been complaining about this Marge person for decades. Decades. People have called out the pertinent policing agencies numerous times, and the reason she is featured at all is that her horses are again, loose on the road and have been tragically killed. Thank god no person was injured or killed and pity the poor truck driver who must feel terrible. He is an innocent victim of this woman who won’t repair her fences and take good care of her horses.
So CHT, I ask you: do YOU feel like donating money to this Marge? You are welcome to do so. I am sure she would love it. You could go there and offer to build her some nice fences. Go for it.
I was just thinking that I have a new theory:
When the average person falls into TEMPORARY financial misfortune through no fault of their own, they never wind up making this blog. Do you know why?
It’s because a normal person has relationships with other people – they have family and/or friends who help them out – KNOWING that the person is a hardworking person who is good for the money. And the person turns out to be just that. They find a new job, recover their health or pay off the debts caused by the sudden end of a marriage or whatever else. They crack down violently on their own living expenses and do what it takes to pay back the people who helped them out. They are full of gratitude for the help.
Their horses never suffer. They never wind up in the news. The neighbors don’t see that anything is awry. Nothing is awry. The person has a bobble in life, and their loved ones extend a helping hand, and they overcome the bobble and life is good again.
I have helped people like this and I have been helped in return. And none of it was ever blogworthy because everybody involved acted responsibly. They appreciated the temporary loan, the helping hand – and then they FIXED THE PROBLEM THAT HAD CREATED THE ISSUES IN THE FIRST PLACE. The person wins their battle with alcohol or drugs, finds the courage to leave a bad relationship that is sucking them dry or finds a great job again after having theirs go poof.
Most people deserve a helping hand and make good use of it. But there is that segment of individuals who take and take and take and take some more. So the helping hands start wising up. They start saying no. And then the person really can’t make ends meet. Hoof care and de-worming are the first to go, and certainly vet care. Sometimes that goes undiscovered for a while. Then the day comes when there isn’t enough money for feed, either. By now the person is a chronic dependent. They simply can NOT kick themselves in the ass and take positive action toward changing the situation. They typically are blame-throwers who run around bashing those who formerly helped them for daring to decide that enough was enough. It is THAT person’s fault, not theirs.
Those are the people who wind up on this blog, the people who wind up being convicted of neglect and cruelty. It is not like all you need is a bit of misfortune and voila, the eeevil Fugly blog is picking on you. It is no surprise that virtually every time I post about someone like Marge, or Dean, or whoever, people come out of the woodwork to say, OMG, I knew her ten years ago and the horses looked like crap!
These people aren’t learning. They aren’t changing. Being nice didn’t work. It’s not that no one has tried. I would bet money literally every case I put on this blog, SOMEONE tried to get them to give up the horses years ago, before things got this bad.
Please join “Arabian + Half-Arabian Re-homing/Giveaway Connection” on Facebook! Help yourself or someone else out by spreading the word!
Usually I’m not a fan of more regulating, or of laws that make it more expensive to be responsible when you already are… but…
It occurs to be that a lot of these BYB crackpots could be stopped by legally establishing strict criteria for confining stallions. (Pasture breeding would have to be done within a fence that meets the criteria – and a 3-strand fence wouldn’t.) Sock ‘em with fines, that increase with each offense, topping them off with confiscation or mandatory gelding. Get the criteria from observing the good stud barns.
A report of non-compliant confinement would be investigated, because it’s an easy chore, and an easy source of money.
It’s against all my political principles, though. 8^(
Ruthie