Megan’s Law – but for horses!
Mar 03 2010
I can’t begin to imagine how many animals this would help! I think this is a great idea. Of course, any registry is only useful if people use it, but I do think people use the sex offender registry when checking out possible child care providers and other household employees, not to mention teachers, coaches and neighbors.
What are your thoughts on how to make this database, if it comes to pass, as efficient and useful as possible?
96 comments to “Megan’s Law – but for horses!”
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Generally speaking, I am more for government and the authorities to stay out of peoples’ lives.
Actually they come when I call even if it’s naptime for them.
Not in this case.
The “punishment” for abusing animals in any way, shape or form are laughable. They are a joke. The examples given in the video sicken me.
Can these people be “treated” for their sick habits. I am not going to use the word “illness” because this absolves those abusers of responsibility for their actions. Yes, there might be a propensity to become an alcoholic or drug abuser, but where are the jollies in harming an animal?
I am going to go hug a kitty cat, the first one I trip over
Best way to do it: the only way we can. Through the courts—but not waiting for a guilty verdict or plea. Charges = reporting. Yes, overblown, but better safe than sorry. Very much against how I feel about government (I’m more libertarian than anything else) but unfortunately we cannot assume reasonable behavior from some people …
As a quasi-libertarian myself, I’ve got to disagree about listing people as soon as charges are filed. Our whole judicial system is based on the concept of innocence until proven guilty – I’m not willing to undermine it, even if it sounds good in this situation.
I agree with SmartChic, in addition to the standard of Innocent until Proven Guilty, listing as soon as charges are filed would open up the listing to abuse. Just think what a nasty vindictive Ex- or just-plain-Asshat could do with that kind of setup.
But the newspapers already do that…what’s the difference?
So does Pet-Abuse.com.
The difference is they’re not the government, and they’re not making the accused person go out of their way to get registered and tracked. Petabuse.com is exercising freedom of speech (and doing it very well), but nobody should be declared a ‘bad person’ by the government without due process of law.
I prefer the idea proposed in the video, which would register those CONVICTED of animal abuse and hoarding. There is no need to list those who are only charged and not convicted, because the sad reality is that the worst abusers usually have MULTIPLE convictions.
This idea makes me curious about what charges an abuser might commonly plead to in order to avoid the appearance of being cruel or neglectful? I mean, if I saw that someone had been convicted of a misdemeanor charge of possessing too many cats, I might not (well, after reading this blog, reverse that) assume anything more, but that might be a common offense for people who are criminally neglectful.
Thank you thank you for passing this along. After working at a Humane Society here in Oregon, I really see no downside in this being done . . . I’d even volunteer to update it, for heavens sakes! Repeat animal horders, abusers and neglect is ridiculous . . . and I really truly believe that it is a sign of deeper mental issues and possibly signs of violence towards people, kids, etc. No way can you rationalize torturing animals and not be able to go there with people eventually. Pretty sick . . .
Thanks again, I Facebooked it, as I hope many people do . . .
I would support this resource and use it.
I think it’s a GREAT idea!! But as you said it’s only useful if people use it. There is another site that’s good for that kind of information (pet-abuse.com) it’s listed by the states.
What a great aid in compliance with / enforcement of existing sentencing orders that suggest people cannot own animals for x number of years! It’s not even a radical, new idea – just a tool to help implement an existing one!
What really really makes me angry about the whole prosecution of animal abusers is that they get off so easily. What’s $200 to them? And only 90 days in jail? Why are the court systems enabling this behavior so carelessly? Frankly, it is arrogant of humans to say that they are just animals. I am a bit of a Darwinist in the fact that I believe humans ARE animals with overly developed brains. So, if we are animals, then why are we facilitating the abuse of other species and letting the people who do this get off so easily? Animal abusers should be allowed the same punishment as child abusers, as there is a set of startling similarities between the two: Both prey upon the helpless, and both seem to be numb to their actions, repeating them time and time again.
Humans ARE animals. It’s not like there’s another category they get to be in.
Some are closer to rodents than others!
Yes, humans are animals, to be exact we are mammals. Mammals are defined by several characteristics but most important are live birth and mammary glands which provide nourishment for our young. We just covered this in science in my kindergarten classroom. Needless to say the students were a little surprised to learn that we are like cows, horses, whales, goats, cats, dogs…
Yes, I understand the logistics of animal classification, but the major ‘if’ was so not to offend those who are not so scientifically inclined if you know what I’m saying…
I hope you’re not talking about offending the religious right? Creationists? So you’re sidestepping the issue of humans being just another animal… when every scientific fact supports that we are animals 100%? What else could we possibly be?
It’s the creationists and religious right who should be ashamed of their offensive disregard of science and fact!
Animals with morals?
Biologically speaking, yeah, we’re all made of meat. Very, very similar meat. But there’s more to the human condition than biology. Science can describe the physical world, and help to inform the ethical world, but it can’t give moral answers. This is where I think Creationists tend to get their pants in a wad – people say that we’re the same cell structures as animals, therefore there’s no moral difference between them. That doesn’t follow.
I’m not arguing with anyone on this one: I believe humans are animals, that is MY opinion, end of story. You can believe whatever you please, it is your right after all. I’m just trying not offend anyone. Ever heard of neutrality? If I didn’t want to offend anyone, it is MY DECISION. I’m not sidestepping anything here, just trying to avoid an argument which you overly-defensive people seemed to have started anyway. As far as people being so morally just as opposed to animals, that brings us directly back to what this blog entry and my comment was talking about. Do you see other species of ANIMALS intentionally harm another species for reasons other than survival? Do you honestly think animals get some sick satisfaction of killing each other?
My dear, that is not an opinion. It is scientific fact. I’m not arguing with anybody either – fact is fact. HUMANS ARE ANIMALS.
Agree, agree, agree. When I hear about the wrist slapping for the convicted animal abuser/neglecter. I just think in my mind, ‘Oh yes they have sooooooo learned their lesson.’ Then I procceed to bang my head on my desk. If we don’t make them think, ‘Oh well golley gee, last time I didn’t feed rover (or insert any animal) I had to spend six months in jail, pay for his recovery and than board while he stayed at the shelter, and on top of that had to make a 10k donation to the place who is taking care of him.’ I think if it got up into the thousands of dollars of fines, or “donations”/resitution to the rescue/sanctuary/ who ever has to now pay to help said animal(s) recover, people would start to think. Not the laughable $200. Really T_T;? People sometimes laugh, and think jail is fun (which I think is creepy, why would you want to be there?). Jail is in the air. Some people learn not to do it, other times however they just learn to hide it better. Public humiliation that this data base offers, oh yes, indefinately
(nothing like a public shaming). If you can’t do the time, than don’t do the crime. This is no difference between animals and children, they are both helpless and defenseless, and they need to have someone stand up for them. Great idea (flush all the scum out into the open so this way we all know who to avoid like the pleague). Wonder if this will truely go through though?
Hey fugly-
Horses supprted by FOB found dead in pasture at horse rescue. When are they gonna learn?
http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=46106.1
They are gonna learn on the 14th of Never.
Watch for another huge expose about a the-truck-is-coming rescue, coming to the Fugly blog soon!
Someone on there suggested pulling the thread, so I print screened most of it if you want it. It has all the info, horses names, etc. Along with a very appropriate comment by one FOB’er that starts off- and I quote- “Oh, geez……not again…..”
Go ahead and post it here in case they pull it. The rescuer is Kami Brooks, BTW.
Not sure how to get them to come up? Should I just cut and paste the text or is there a way to get the screenshots up?
It’s still up. I think the “oh, geez….not again” was in reference to yet ANOTHER bad rescue here in Ohio. They seem to uncover one every week in this state. The laws to protect our animals are close to non exsistent. There are a lot of good horse people in Ohio, but it seems like for every one good one, there are 2 bad ones, and I don’t really understand why that is. Too many old timers and hill billies, maybe? And a large Amish population?
After re-reading it I think you are right. And you are dead on about Ohio. I have went round after round with AC and police in Warren AND Clermont counties. It’s like you spoon feed them proof (pictures and video), go on record to file the complaints and police reports, and they STILL act like their hands are tied. Nothing ever gets done unless you can get media involved and even then its a crapshoot. No wonder so much of this crap happens here, we are a hoarder/animal abusers paradise.
Here is a sight to warm all of your hearts today!
http://dcs-inmatesearch.ne.gov/Corrections/InmateDisplayServlet?DcsId=71105&showInmateImage=true
Right where he belongs.
Bwaahaahaahaa!!!! Guess we know what kind of studs he is going to be riding shirtless for the next 5 years!
That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen!!
BIG SMILE:-)
Absolutely the BEST picture I’ve ever seen of him!! LOL Where’s that cocky smirk now?
Read it well – his first parole hearing is this August, and he is first eligible in November. Let’s stay on top of this.
Ruthie
And poor old Ernie Paragallo…ratted out by the kill buyer he thought was his buddy!
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/ernie-paragallo/
What a JERK.
You just MIGHT be starving your horses if the kill buyer has second thoughts about taking them…And you have to be a pretty big piece of shit to make the kill buyer look like the decent human being.
Yup agree totally. How bad would it have to be before a killer turned on someone?
Check out this asshat Paragallo:
““Did I mismanage? Shoot me. I mismanaged.†he told the police. “I f—ed up. I’m not denying it. If they want to lock me up, maybe they should. Whether it’s my fault or not, it happened and it’s my responsibility.—
MISMANAGED? Horses are DEAD. They starved to death. I wish we COULD shoot you, and that would be less painful than the way your horses died.
“Whether it’s my fault or not” – WHO THE HELL ELSE’S WOULD IT BE???
I hope he’s this arrogant in court. The judge will smack him for it.
Good God how can he actually say that? How can there be so many people out there that actually think this way? Every idiot out there getting busted for this shit has the same excuse with different wording. It really is time to start chlorinating the gene pool and just get rid of these idiots.
To bad we can’t shoot him. That would fall under ‘cruel and unusual’ punishment. Even though what he inflicted on the poor animals was cruel and unusual punishment. One less idiot that can’t reproduce if he was shot. I hope they throw the book at him. I hope they dig around and see what else he’s been hiding. If he’s done this once, anyone want to bet on how many times he’s done this, and still managed to get away? Sickening.
I actually had to stop the video because my guy begged me to stop it. He said how he couldn’t understand how anyone would want to harm something so defenseless. We both agree that having a registration online is a good idea, I bet a LOT of shelters would check that out right away before signing an animal over to someone.
So would breeders, people seeking to give away their animals, horse owners, etc. etc. If people know how to google, than they should be able to use this.
The website says sign the petition to get our state to require abusers to be registered.
Im in Cali where a senator is trying to get a database for animal abusers, great idea except.. they cost would be paid through a per lb animal food tax. For animals like horses that is a lot of money . Someone did the math and said it would be $60 per ton of hay. I am all for the database but that would be crazy to punish good owners. How much could it cost to build a database?
Hope this one isn’t funded like that , anybody know?
Have the CA senetors thought about making the animal abusers/neglectors pay through it from their fines, or resitution? I think it would further shame them into behaving if they knew where there money was going to…..
That wins my vote! I am sick of people who have committed no crime (loving pet owners who feed, provide vet care, love, etc.) having to be taxed to death. Better the pervs who get caught pay themselves.
I’ve seriously been thinking and re-thinking my initial response; it isn’t like me to not embrace the “innocent until proven guilty” stance taken by the courts. Initially I wanted to type “put ‘em in a database when they are arrested!” I don’t agree with that; certainly it is possible to have a misunderstanding (let’s say a nosy busybody neighbor who thinks your horses need to be fed three times a day and you do it twice a day, so they report you to animal control) and there is no abuse at all. But if what’s happened is serious enough to be charged (and you’d know this better than I, Cathy), how often are things plead down and what is really animal abuse ends up something so minor that the punishment is little more than a slap on the wrist? We all watch Animal Planet, look at some of the horrid stuff that happens there and what the penalties end up being.
I am not very tolerant of anyone being cruel to animals. I wish I had the discipline to become a vegetarian … and I’m still going to hug a cat to make me feel better after a tough, painful day at work. My FHV+ boy Scottie is having upper respiratory problems and rather than getting groceries for me, he’s going to the v-e-t. I can eat ramen, cornflakes and milk. He depends on me to help him get better. I can go hungry. He gets premium food and a jar or two of Gerber baby meats (at $1.09 a jar) with his lysine.
Rant over. We were talking about this at work today; I am surrounded by liberals who say “put these people into therapy” and I asked “who pays?” They don’t … law-abiding citizens and the animals do, in different ways, of course.
Aw, sorry to hear about the kitty, but I have made that choice too – the dollar store food so that some animal could go to the vet or get whatever else they needed. And you are right, you won’t die and this could save his life. I have a super cool FIV poz, diabetic foster kitty here who just cracks me up every day – he is 20 lbs. and likes to sit on my keyboard!
I really doubt hay would be included. It would probably be only dog and cat food. Do you really think the beef industry would allow horses to be classified as pets and not livestock, and therefore their food be taxed as such? I think the big guns funded by the beef industry and big pharma will be coming out against this bill. I will be looking for the slick ads and spin…
Repeat after me: “Colorado is a stupid state, Colorado is a STUPID state.”
http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages/?msg=46131.1
They want to have a check off on their state tax return where people can give money to support horse slaughter!
Put your fingers in your ears, at any minute now Margaret DeSarno’s going to read this about her home state and you’re gonna hear the screaming no matter where you are!
I don’t see that one passing unless we can put a check off right next to it for those who want to donate to the alternatives!
This actually does not surprise me at all. My best friend lives in Southwest Colorado where they have a lot of dude ranches, and a lot of horses from that area end up in slaughterhouses.
First, your ABR link does not lead to any message about Colorado.
Someone on ABR must be jumping to conclusions like a hysterical flea. Try this link:
http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/991631-voluntary-income-tax-check-could-aid-unwanted-horses
Apparently, a statement from the Unwanted Horse Alliance that they TAKE NO POSITION on the slaughter issue means they want to kill all the horses! OMGZZZ!!1!!!
That, obviously, must be why they have donated $500 to each of 14 horse rescues.
http://www.counwantedhorse.org/grantprogram.html
A tax form checkoff will enable them to do much more donating. Great idea.
Ruthie, who wishes everyone would do their research before hitting “send” (including me!)
Anyone recognize this horse?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/grd/1627420490.html
It was left to die in the desert… Any help would be appreciated by the people who found her.
With a bit more meat on her bones, she will be a beautiful horse – far beyond the usual dumped-wherever quality. Wonder if anyone will ever learn her story…
She is beautiful, isn’t she? They are calling her Melody. Whoever dumped her needs to be shot!
I think this is a fantastic idea! I’d use it and help with it in any way, updating, tracking, etc. They get off -way- too easy. I’d like to see them get the book thrown at them. Or hell, the whole of the local library. Asshats that abuse animals deserve to rot in jail.
Apologies in advance, I’m about to go off topic.
http://www.dilutes.iinet.net.au/Duns.html
I run a small virtual pet, where people can breed all the krazy kolors they want without ever getting a crappy horse. All the artwork is done by hand; and sometimes these people really throw me for a loop with colors. Today I needed to see a reference for what an silver amber champagne dun would look like. I didn’t find one, fortunately, I had to make a guess at what that would look like, but I stumbled across this website. I somehow got to it from another website where a lady bred the “worlds only” roan amber champagne horse…hmm…
What an interesting association. I’m not quite sure what to say about them, rather amusing really. I’m baffled as to why they don’t accept appaloosa-marked duns? And they don’t make mention of paints…but they state white markings are restricted to face and legs? I wonder if they consider paints/apps the same thing? Maybe I’m missing a huge point here, but dun is dun. A gene is a gene, no matter what other genes are present, it’s STILL a dun!
And I love how they say the body must be free from imperfections, yet I see some of the examples on their site not looking too perfect.
I don’t know, maybe like I said, I’m missing a huge point…if so, can someone point that out?
Wow this is great I hope it passes! I posted a bulletin on myspace letting people to sign this petition. I hope you don’t mind Fugs I used some of your words in the bulletin. Could some one please make another bulletin on other network sites. I think this should get as much internet attention as possible. I’m also going to send an email our local news stations about this petition as well.
I’m against encouraging vigilantes. I don’t think it brings out the best in people; I don’t think it is in the end the best way of serving animals.
I would like people with a conviction for animal cruelty to be known to their police force, and I would like that force to have members of staff trained to recognise ill-kept and ill-treated animals, and I would like them to be subject to random checkups for the next ten years; after that there will be a review – if there has been no cause for concern, the checks will stop.
This needs a different _system_ to be put into place, and I’m not certain how to implement it, but I don’t like the idea of do-it-yourself justice at all.
I have deep reservations as to forming yet another registry for offenders. Not because I think someone who abuses animals should be protected but because I am concerned about issues like mistaken identity. Anyone else here remember when Senator Ted Kennedy had problems getting on a flight he’d flown hundreds of times before because his (rather common) name was the same as someone on the TSA’s no-fly list? For a US Senator, sorting out the mistake was a trivial matter; for ordinary people, it can be a nightmare that goes on for years.
In fact, there’s an example right here of exactly the sort of mistake that can happen.
Not only are there the issues of mistaken identities, misuse of information and facilitating vigilante crimes, such registries promote a false sense of safety. If someone’s name does not appear on such a registry, does that mean they will never commit a sex offence or never abuse an animal? Of course not!
The possible benefits do not come anywhere near outweighing the drawbacks in my opinion.
I couldnt watch the video… I cant start my day this way, I can imagine whats on there. Anything to get the offenders name out there for the safety of other people and animals I am all for. I really wish that you could simply google a first and last name and get a list of ilegal, and or harmful things the person has done. It would be easy, fast and simple you wouldnt have to look for a web site,. If you have done something that landed you in jail or court, it needs to be listed. Here is another idea, although it would never happen in USA….In Switzerland every person is registered in the “Gemeinde” its like a town city hall – office. Every person in this country has an address, and if they move out of the town they have to unregister , and re register in the new town. This waya the Swiss can control the when , where ,what and who, of everyone. You can hide in Switzerland, this is a good thing. Its too easy to hide your mistakes in the US… unfortunatly the Americans are dead set on privacy laws that protect their wrong doings. I am willing to bet that Dawn, ( you know who she is ) already has a newly adopted dog cat or horse that she is neglecting, because she was allowed to hide in another state where no one knew about her “problem”… There has to be a way to expose these people regardless of the privacy laws that they hide behind. sorry for my rant, but I see most laws are designed to protect the guilty, especially in the work place (dont get me started on labor laws) …it has to stop .
“I really wish that you could simply google a first and last name and get a list of ilegal, and or harmful things the person has done.”
You can; you just have to pay for it. Google your own name, and see what pops up. They’ll give you a limited search for free; you can pay for a public/criminal records search. Of course, the problem comes when you are searching for a common name. How do you know which one is the “John Smith” you are looking for?
I wonder if they’d donate subscriptions to shelters?
Ruthie
Courtesy of COTH (and about a dozen other horse forums), we have our first subjects!
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80925308
Remind me again what their spin is? Nah…nahhtt…natuuurrrr…. nope. I forget. Humane horseman of the year, my ass.
I’m sure you ALL know what I think about the HSUS associating itself with Pat Parelli.
FAIL. All kinds of FAIL.
What was she even trying to accomplish in the video? Anything? at all?
If I don’t have the slightest clue what she is trying to convey to that poor horse, how the devil is the HORSE suppose to get it! Wish he’d turned around and knocked some danged sense into her and the owner who is allowing this to take place!
Ok that video got me all confused….what was she trying to teach that horse?? All it looked like to me was a bunch of rope jerking, hand smacking, arms flailing around…poor horse must be as confused as I was.
What in the world is she trying to teach him? It almost looks like she’s trying to get him to stand still and pay attention to her, and back or spin away when she gets in his face. I think. But he still gets walloped no matter what he does, so I’m not sure. Poor bugger, it looks like he’s trying to cooperate, but can’t figure out what she wants. You can hear him breathing hard on the tape.
If that’s all the skills it takes to charge $$$$$ for your time, I should go into business as a trainer…
I watched the video. I have to say first of all that I am most definitely NOT a Parelli supporter – and I think I dislike the wife more than Pat, if that’s even possible. I just think everything that they do is completely ridiculous. I had the misfortune of watching their show last night (okay, I’m a glutton for punishment – it was on when I turned the t.v. on and I couldn’t take my eyes off the train wreck) when she is teaching a girl on a sour (sore?) mare lope transitions. It was completely ridiculous, including teaching the girl to (dramatically) collapse her ribcage and tilt her shoulders to the outside!
However, in this video I see a horse who has absolutely no respect for people and would just as soon walk right over the top of you as look at you. He also swings his head around dangerously close to people heads and just doesn’t have any sense that a person is even standing anywhere near him. He is dangerous. Not mean, but ignorant and dangerous none the less.
If you have EVER dealt with this type of horse, I don’t think anyone would be jumping up and down about the video. I personally have a mare who came off the track with these same issues. After about the third time of getting slammed in the head by her head, I’d had enough! It was dangerous! She was going to give me a concussion (or worse)! I used the SIMILAR technique of waving my hand towards her eye/face and if she didn’t get out of my way, then yes, I slapped her. Until she got the point that your head doesn’t come anywhere near mine and if I walk towards you, you yield your shoulders and head and move away. She’s much better now, but she still tries to swing her head over the top of my head sometimes (she’s tall) and I throw my hands up and she “conveniently” runs into them. I just don’t allow that behavior. I fixed this issue mostly in her stall during feeding times.
The Parelli woman is trying to get the horse to stay off of her and respect her space by backing up when she shakes the lead. Her technique is rough and is definitely not something I would expect to see from a so-called professional. However, if this horse were bowling into me like he was to her, I can’t say I would have done anything different at that moment. However, it would not have turned into some type of training session. I would have corrected him as strongly as necessary to protect my safety, and then changed the situation/location to make it more likely to succeed in getting this horse’s attention on the handler. This horse should not have been wherever he was that was so distracting to him. Half the battle of training a horse is setting them up for success. He was so distracted by the commotion around him that he didn’t have a chance in hell of even taking a baby step and getting rewarded for it.
I am not standing up for her. She does go over the top, and she tries to do too many things at once (“look at me”, “back up”, “move your head and shoulders away”, “don’t look over there”, etc., etc.), but I wouldn’t exactly go all the way to calling it abusive. However, in the end you can see the horse is not “getting it”, he’s checking out. Tomorrow, he’ll do the exact same behavior he did today, because he didn’t actually learn anything. I really can’t believe that she is considered a professional trainer – as her handling “skills” are so rough (fumbling with the lead, nearly getting run down while trying to yield hindquarters, etc.) she looks more like a novice. That part is REALLY shocking.
I hope the horse was none the worse for wear after being subjected to her “training” techniques.
What was she trying to do? How horrible. As a person who had put my horsey dreams on hold when I got smacked by the recession, I can’t believe this is what people do when they do get to have a horse. WTF
What the HELL was that all about?
I think this would suffer from a lot of the same problems Meghan’s law does… it encourages substituting mob justice for the justice system, it includes too many offenses (such that prosecutors may actually be encouraged to plead out people who are actually guilty of the low-level offenses to avoid registering), and continuing to punish someone after their ‘debt to society’ has been repaid runs counter to the ideals that underly our penal system.
Animal abuse, generally, gets shitty sentences and shitty enforcement of those sentences. But making up for it with an ethically dubious law isn’t the best way to go about it. Most of the people who starve and neglect their animals have delusions of victim-hood, I can’t see how making them actual victims would make things better.
Now, I might support something narrower than the sex-offender registry… I know that anything narrower would not be as effective, but as Americans we have some specific rights that mean that law enforcement can’t always take the most effective route.
While I agree that Megan’s Law is too broad (I don’t think an 18 year old boy having consensual sex with a 16 year old girl has done anything wrong – sorry, I just don’t. They’re teenagers and that has been going on since time began), I really don’t think there’s any “lesser” level of animal cruelty/neglect. By the time you get charged with anything, the situation is BAD.
I’d worry that it would stay the hands of an animal control officer or prosecutor because ‘the stigma would follow them for life’.
I think better enforcement of the laws and post-judgment requirements would be both more effective and more just.
I would support this database. For damn sure. A friend of ours, a state senator, has been so great at introducing and supporting bills for animals here in this state.. He has been mocked for doing so, but, has never stopped.. kudos to him.. He would probably be embarrassed if I mentioned his name here..but, he’s on the south shore of Massachusetts..There are some good guys and of course, gals..in politics, who do believe animal issues are important.
The CA registry is being proposed by Senator Florez, who is a grandstanding serial liar. Reason enough for skepticism.
Funded by a tax on pet food, at a time when feed prices are stretching the resources of even fairly solvent owners.
I can guarantee you that that earmark would be first in line to be raided for the general fund’s chronic shortfalls.
The energy and money spent lobbying for fifty disjointed and expensive state registries would be better put to use on developing a truly national database (not government sponsored) to track offenders. Convictions, indictments, criminal charges are a matter of public record. Anyone can publish those.
Why doesn’t the HSUS use some of its considerable swag to make that happen?
Okay, I got the video to play.
Sensationalism. It’s all imagery and agitprop, but no substance about how a registry would do anything other than make people feel virtuous and foster an illusion of safety. It’s a four-legged version of terrorist threat color-coding.
The three examples they cited of offenders point to basic failures of the judicial system that would not be addressed by a registry. I could have pulled three more relevant examples out of my butt.
Cat torturer — short sentence, then “skipped town.” Does that mean he’s in violation of parole? How would a registry fix that?
One hoarder who continued hoarding cats at a second location after the first raid, then re-offended with the same dog. Meaning she was given the dog back after the courts were through with her. She didn’t go out an acquire a new dog. How would a registry fix that?
Guy shot a neighbor’s dog, and then killed another dog two months later. I can guarantee you that he had not been convicted within two months of the first offense. A state-run registry would not even pick him up.
What it would fix is that a person could look up another person before selling them an animal, adopting an animal out to them, hiring them to work in a job relating to animals, etc. That’s the point. Not all of those examples given were good examples to use – I’m with you there – but a registry would provide a resource for people to use to check other people out.
Which is my point — an expensive, cumbersome state registry of convictions is of limited or no use.
An agile, independent, national (indeed, international) registry of charges, indictments, convictions could be of use, would be significantly cheaper, and would not tax already-stretched animal owners.
(Why aren’t sex-offender registries funded only by parents of cute little kids? Or should it be by a tax on hookers? Makes about as much sense.)
Most of the serial animal abusers whose cases I have followed — and all of the worst ones, the big-time hoarders and puppymillers — have crossed state lines to continue their practices.
And the women have a habit of marrying and divorcing and morphing their names every couple of years. “The Law” tends not to keep up with these developments. Pissed-off animal advocates are better at it.
Well, I won’t disagree with you there. We pissed-off animal advocates are like Jack Russell Terriers when we get our teeth into a bad abuse/neglect case.
The name changes with the women are a real challenge but I think that’s a problem for law enforcement in general. All a woman has to do is get married and voila, new legal name.
http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=12079764
Classic story….Hope the link works??
I think this is a great idea. Not that I have a horse for sale, but if I do in the future, I would love to have something like this as a resource, just to make sure I’m not selling my horse to a psycho.
This is totally OT but I have a nicely built stocky mare for sale with okay breeding and the advertisement is extremely detailed. The asking price is less than $1,000. I live in the deep south and I had someone contact me from Alberta, Canada to purchase my mare for $450 because, you know, the tranporting costs are soooo expensive. The “lady” was asking all kinds of questions and wanted videos, more pics, etc. This person’s english was broken, like they didn’t speak english as a primary language. My question is this; is it possible that this person is really a kill-buyer and after seeing all the meat on my mare figures they could turn a tidy profit even after transporting her all the way up there? I wanted to send this person the list of auction horses posted the other day and tell them they could save the life of a Canadian horse for less than half my mare’s price, but just replied and told them I wasn’t interested in selling her for less than the asking price. I won’t sell my mare to just anyone and I have to seriously question why someone wouldn’t be looking for a horse closer to home at that price. To me this just doesn’t add up. Any insight?
It’s extremely unlikely this lady is thinking about slaughtering your horse. I’m from Alberta and horses up here are going through auction for pennies, so she could pick up 6 or 7 for what hauling alone would cost her, never mind you asking price.
It’s good to be cautious expecially with a long distance purchase though
It doesn’t sound like a kill buyer, but it does sound like a scam. Have you asked her how she’s going to pay for your mare? If she sends you a money order, especially for more than the amount you agree upon, don’t deposit it and don’t ship the horse.
It sounds like a scam to me too, one of those things where they will send you a check in excess of the sale price and you send them back the difference to pay for whatever complicated story they come up with; after that their check bounces and you have sent them money (and maybe horse). The other thought that came to me is, how do you know they are going to send the horse to Canada? They could buy it cheap and do anything, including slaughter, resale, whatever. Don’t forget about that guy in Florida who bravely exposed all the local horse slaughter going on there; it happens in every state apparently.
Thanks for all of your replies. First let me say that I would not ship a horse to Canada, especially one this inexpensive. I just found it odd and it does make perfect sense that someone could be trying to scam like that.
Here’s a downside to SB1277. The costs to set up the registry (estimated to be in the millions) will be paid for by a new tax on pet food. I am concerned about the repercussions of that.
It’s a good idea and all but it appears to America only. Why does the rest of the world always get forgotten in these things? There is just as much abuse in the United Kingdom (where I live), Africa, Australia, anywhere.
major case of horse abuse/neglect that has only had orders to comply over the last 3-4 months
get the message out there that these horses need to be out of this situation andthe owner NEVER have animals
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=691330012#!/group.php?gid=11445057785&ref=ts
I’m for the idea, though I think it would have to be carefully implemented, and yes, people would have to use it, but I think that if there were a single, large and official source of this information, that responsible breeders/sellers would check. I like to believe that most people don’t actually want their animals to end up in a hoarder’s house of horrors. I do wonder how broad the database would be, though, and from what I’ve read about the idea so far it’s mostly proposed to record information about violent (and/or sexual) offenses, when IMO letting animals starve really reveals an equal measure of depravity.
That said, putting anybody on a registry should be really serious business, and I’m not sure I trust any agency not to screw it up. Our nation’s sex offender laws and the registries are truly a cluster@!*$, not to mention that they’re in many ways unconstitutional and inhumane. And before anybody jumps on me for sympathizing with paedophiles, my problem with the registries is that so many people are registered who in a common-sense society wouldn’t even have been charged, just because DAs, police and politicians want to be seen to be “tough on sex offenders.” People should not be in jail or on that registry for taking innocent pictures of their baby in the bath, and high school aged boys shouldn’t see their entire lives and futures ruined for having entirely consensual sex with their high school aged girlfriends. A murderer can do his time in prison, get out and have the same opportunities and trials as any ex-convict, but somebody who has been labeled a sex offender — even when that label has been overzealously and unnecessarily applied — is going to be labeled a child rapist for the rest of his life, regardless of what his actual “crime” was.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to get off on a tangent there. ;D A registry like this would be of no use at all if it wasn’t national (or better, international), because we already know that abusers will just move across state lines. I’d love to see an independent database set up that would allow you to search for a person’s history to find humane convictions, but I’m just not sure how it could be sanely and useful implemented. (And wouldn’t it be awesome if you could look a person up and find info about all of the businesses they’ve been associated with? Like you can see whether a person has founded five different “rescues” in four different states within the last ten years…)
Yes, please. Everything else is on the Net. We have the right to know who we’re dealing with.
Fug – 20 horses need help http://kindnessranch.org/
Wow. You can donate your champion jumper into research. Hey Wendy Hsue! Here’s a new option for your next horse — and I’ll bet it allows you a great tax deduction!
So what happens to the horses if the research institution doesn’t place them? Are they sent to slaughter? Given to Sterling Rachwal? How could I be so negative. Of course they are paid for their service by living out the rest of their days in comfort at the well-run research facility, unless of course, they can be placed with an adopter who has undergone a thorough screening and has proven to have the will, the expertise and facilities to care for the horse.
No, really. What happens to them? Please say they will at least be humanely euthanized.
I know I’m late to this thread, but I thought I would answer anyway.
Unfortunately no.
I guess it would depend on the facility itself, but I have seen horses at our local auction that were dumped by a research facility, with a note and some needle marks, which meant nobody wanted to buy them because god only knows what they have been through. Poor things =(
http://www.operationhorserescue.blogspot.com
OMG! Someone just sent me this thread from the Barrel Horse World forum. You have to be a member to see the awful pictures but it is easy and quick to become a member. Seems that there was an ad on craigslist that a “buyer” responded to…this is what she found: minis with slipper feet, emaciated horses nursing foals, lice, rainrot and dead horses just lying in the field and barns. The place is called the BarOFarm and it is at :7680 88th st.
Howard City Mi. 49329 Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/576914327XBmIla
Oops! I don’t know the name of the farm….it is NOT called BarOFarm though…my mistake.
Rinalia has an excellent commentary of this here
It’s interesting because studies show that databases like this don’t actually reduce the risk of a sex offender offending again. I don’t know if that means that it would work better for animal abusers, but it’s worth it to look at the data we already have. And it says… well, curb your enthusiasm.
It would be satisfying, though.
There are several sites that do background checks, for money. (Intelius, for instance.) Why set up an expensive database, paid for by a tax on animal feed that makes it even more expensive to keep our critters, when so many of us are already struggling? Those of us with need to know can shell out $30 or so for a records check, and not hit other animal owners’ wallets.
Hmm. Let’s see. I guess I can use this databa$e to place my horses, once I can’t afford to feed them any more thanks to the tax that is supposed to help me & them out. Typical “nanny state,” ill-thought-out, misguided, loony nonsense.
No, I’m against it. And I thank God I don’t live in California.
Ruthie