Cremellos in the kill pen, check it out!
Mar 02 2010
My apologies to those of you who have nightmares every time I post these reports, but PLEASE forward this one to your ignorant friends who STILL think color will keep their foals selling well and safe.
IT’S A LIE. A BIG, FAT LIE. THEY ARE NO SAFER THAN SORRELS!
Please, please, please, do not breed your stallion this year if he does not have a solid record of accomplishment in a competitive discipline. I don’t care what color he is. I don’t care if he’s a fuschia and chartreuse zebra-striped sabino. Don’t do it!
Think of your young stallion like you’d think of your teenage son. Sure, he wants to breed! They all do. But I’m guessing most of you would advise your sons to delay marriage and children until after finishing school and getting a good job. That way, the kids will have a much better life, right? You don’t want your grandchildren living in a studio apartment in a crappy part of town, do you? That’s all I’m asking you to do with your stallions – develop the stallion and his accomplishments first. See if he really has what it takes, compared to others. I swear, if I see one more horse pimp rubbing their hands together, gleeful at the fact that 2 year old colts can breed, I’m gonna throw up. Your stallion has his whole life to breed mares – get that competition record on him FIRST!
Oh, and to the people who brought the adult, unbroke broodmares to the auction – congratulations. The fact that you were too damn lazy to put 30 days of training on them sentenced them to death. Good job, asshats! None of us can predict the future, so please, if you own unbroke broodmares, make this the year you get them started under saddle. You do not have to be trainer of the year to get them to walk-trot on trails and that is enough level of accomplishment to save many of them from the slaughterhouse if things go bad for you. There is no excuse for anything, stallion or mare, to only be a breeding machine and given that fertility is not endless, it’s not safe for them to only be a breeding machine. If they are sound get ‘em broke – just in case and before you are in money trouble and have no choice but the auction.
February 27, 2010 Auction Report, Tofield, Alberta Canada
Buckskin five yr old green broke pregnant to draft 430…meat buyer
Ten year old Quarter Horse bay mare nice but a little scared. Ridden. ..400  Private buyer
Shetland geldings driven and broke. Cute with light manes tails. Four and six yrs. 125 each. Private
Shetland gelding ran in 25 meat buyer
Mini sorrel cute ridden mare 180 private
Welsh team driven geldings seven and ten yrs grey and b/w pinto. 325 each private
Shetland black and white pinto broke ridden and going well. Four yrs. 200 private sale
Bay mare six thoroughbred broke with paperwork ahanahan. Ridden and went well. 370 meat buyer
Bay gelding well broke ridden jockey club reg thoroughbred. Seven yrs 700 didn’t sell him
Belgian team driven geldings 14 and 15. Going well and handsome. 950 ea picked up their feet. Private sale
Grey gelding qh registered ridden roped and cattle went well not for beginner 750 private
Black ridden gelding qh cross ten well broke anyone can ride. Calm brand on left hip XS (x on top, s below) 1050 private
Grey gelding morgan arabian gelding. Warned Will pull when tied, thirteen yrs. Went well. 550 lady rode him. Owner kept
Quarter horse seven sorrel mare. Broke but fast. Riddden responsive went well 500 owner kept
Buckskin gelding. Ridden and going well. Three yrs or so they dint say. Pretty head nice horse. Picked up hooves. 1100 owner kept
That was it for saddle horses…now saddles sold
Mexican saddles. 300 picks one..300 picks two. 300 all the junky Mexicans were gone 250 for the last one
Then unbroke horses
Black Quarter Horse two year old no white, registered. Run in scared but pretty,  good weight 250 meat buyer
Chestnut Quarter Horse 2 Â year filly run in star marking good weight pretty 260 meat buyer
Standardbred four year old no papers not fast enough to race but broke. Let around 9DN3E brand on neck 300 meat buyer
Sorrel grade stud with halter chased around 350 meat buyer Walter – straight to slaughter
Cremello tobiano yearling filly application there yearling ok weight 90 meat buyer
Palomino mare Quarter Horse papers promised Nice looking, run around yelling for foal selling as grade pretty good weight 385 meat buyer
Cremello yearling same as earlier one a little heavier meat buyer Les
Cremello tobiano mare registered seven bred. Chased around with rope halter ok weight 300 meat buyer Walter…straight
Cremello mare reg papers good weight 285 meat buyer
Palomino six year old paint mare registered run around friendly and petted led a bit 270 meat buyer straight to slaughter again
Black paint filly year old 180 registered meat buyer
Paint mare palomino pretty four year old Quarter Horse cut on knee not bad registered a little thin 270 meat buyer straight to slaughter
Pretty palomino yearling filly. Run through 140 meat buyer
198 comments to “Cremellos in the kill pen, check it out!”
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I also think that the same standard for breeding stallions should also be applied to broodmares. I think mares need to earn their right to breed just as much as stallions, especially considering that mares contribute the OTHER 50% of the foal’s genetics. I think it’s just as bad for people to breed their unbroke, ain’t done shit mares as it is to breed their unbroke, ain’t done shit stallions. It is not too hard to give them a job as younger horses, and then retire them to the breeding shed. Even if the mare is from a proven damline, someone should at least check that she did, in fact, inherit the desirable traits instead of just assuming that she would produce good hunter/dressage/reining/barrel horses because of her bloodlines only. Hell, even just show them for ONE season.
Not only would that insure that your foals are TRULY high quality, but a broodmare that used to be a show horse, or a cow horse, or had any kind of job before breeding is more desirable (read: safer) than a broodmare who has never been broke and has done nothing more than act as an egg incubator for her whole life.
Rant over. =)
I agree, besides the fact my mare has djd! Even if she didn’t she would have to PROVE her self worth of passing on her genes, since she has djd, she will never get the chance, in fact she will be getting spayed this weekend so if/when I decide to sell her, she cannot be bred!
That makes sense. The reason I think it is usually stallions that people say need to earn the right to breed, and the same emphasis is not placed on mares, is because a mare can really only produce one foal a year (barring the occasional twins or human intervention via embryo transfer), whereas a stallion has virtually no limits on how many offspring he can sire. Therefore a less-than-stellar stallion can muck up the gene pool a lot faster than a broodmare of like quality.
That’s my thinking on it.
I absolutely agree. The stallions should definitely set the standard.
It still baffles me, however, when people breed a crap mare to a really nice stallion, and grumble because they only get a mediocre foal. I don’t care HOW nice the stallion is, he can only do so much to improve a fug mare. Drives me insane. The mare should have to earn the right to breed just as much as the stallion, but it’s much harder to regulate because it’s so much easier to geld a crap stallion than it is to spay a crap mare, and honestly, EVERYONE with a mare that they love considers breeding her at some point. It’s only the intelligent ones with some measure of self-control that can resist.
Not really sure where I was going with that… it’s time for me to go to sleep…
I spent a week at a very good dude ranch a few years ago. They bred most of their own stock, and only mares that had proven themselves as solid trail mounts were used for breeding. No shows for those mares, but the ranch owner told me that they never had any problem selling foals that didn’t work out, and all of their stock had a “home for life”.
I think the same standard should apply to humans.
Absolutely everyone on *this* forum would agree a mare should also have quality and not just be broke but show good ground manners and calm personality before even considering breeding. But the kind of person who thinks a crap stallion is suitable to breed with his mare isn’t going to apply much discretion anyway. So mediocre breeds with mediocre or worse. The “breeders” who think their post legged “triple registered” QH stud, or their cremello colt with the weedy neck and bad eyesight is worth breeding aren’t reading fugly ! Depressing isn’t it.
Never mind the mare that TashGaia bought at Enumclaw auction last month – 13 year old Cremello Appaloosa, well built, well trained. Not a damn thing wrong with this horse, AND she’s gorgeous, but NO ONE BID! I still can’t wrap my head around it.
Thank god I wasn’t at that sale- would have been bringing home all sorts of critters.
Off topic but
http://www.petfinder.com/classifieds/searchclassified.cgi?state=WV&order=created+DESC&keyword=&type=P scroll down to randy. hmmmmm Think petfinder now has non english speaking scammers too? Here is the AD-Mustang
Young, Male
ITS IS BLACK IN COMPLEXION AND SO CUTE DO CONTACT ME FOR MORE INFORMATION THEN WE START BUSINESS,ALSO REMEMBER ITS HEALTH IS OF MAXIMUM STANDARD AND EATS ON REGULARLY BASES,THANKS contact me on petsdistributors@gmail.com,WE ALSO HAVE PUPPIES TOO FOR ADOPTION ESPECIALLY OREO,PUPPIES,WAITING TO HEAR SOONEST FROM SERIOUS BUYERS.
Sad that its a nice looking gelding/stud? in the pic.
That’s GOT to be a $cammer. Oreo puppies, ROTFL.
The whole syntax of that ad screams “scammer from a non-English-speaking country.”
My border collie Oreo (named by my step-grandkids) is Utterly Offended.
Scammer. At least we know there is about a 99.9% chance the horse isn’t his and the picture was just ripped off the internet somewhere.
Oreo puppies…I’ll bet they are tasty with milk! I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that people actually fall for this, but it happens all the time. My mom is a loan officer for a credit union and has called in the local sherriff’s department to talk to members wiring money overseas to try to talk them out of getting ripped off in these situations. It seldom does any good. It would blow your mind to hear some of the situations she has encountered regarding internet scams.
“Thank god I wasn’t at that sale- would have been bringing home all sorts of critters.”
Can you imagine that I´m almost (but really just almost) happy, that I`m european ? If there wasn´t so much water between me and a whole bunch of nice registered QH/PH/Appies at AUCTION (for heavens sake, registered QH/PH are considered megasuperfancy here, never heard of that they went for less than a few thousands from breeder to private buyer !) , I would surely not own just ONE horse
MORGAN PEOPLE- got the flu and do not feel up to reading the rest of the comments, but that horse on petfinder looks REALLY familiar. all you morgan folks take a peek at him-i’ll bet his owner has no idea his pic is being used for this. if you recognise him let them know.
Wow and they even took the time to declaw him! What a fabulous deal! lol
Uuugggg! When I read these reports, it seriously makes me want to throw up! I can just picture them, running around, scared, loaded onto the killer truck….makes me want to scream….PEOPLE STOP BREEDING!! I could probably go to our local “Tuesday night fugly sale” tonight, but I don’t think I can handle it ….I always want to take them all home, and we have enough mouths to feed as it is….. :’(
http://horsefilleddays.blogspot.com/
Printing list to show to local jackass that insists on breeding his fugly unregistered cremello stud to his 10 or so grade mares every year…not that it will do much good…sigh…I just had a little debate with him about this very thing last week at the local bar. (Real classy, I know!)
Hey, I’ve seen people have arguments in bars over all sorts of dumb stuff, at least you had a good argument about an important topic!
The only conversations Canadians have had in bars for the last month were about hockey. Guaranteed. I have sung our national anthem more in February than in the last 5 years. That said…(and I hate to say this)…maybe what needs to happen here is some celebrity endorsement of this problem. It’s not enough to have Bob Barker show up and tell us what to do with our elephants, maybe if someone like Kid Rock (previously mentioned here) or Viggo would take a stand against indiscriminate breeding there would be some movement. These reports are horrifying. I know that these poor kids have names and maybe if they said “POA named Ranger, 3 years old, likes bananas, unbroke but good with goats, never kicked anyone, half starved, sold to person who will have him delivered to have his throat slit – $110″ people would get the f’n point.
Ugh…it just makes me sick. I cannot stomach an auction..I just can’t. I was talked in to going to one several years ago…My friend asked me and hubby kept telling me to go with them. I kept telling him that he really….really did not want me to go. Its a small local sale..so I finally went..but told him to keep my credit card, check book and not let me take the trailer. He laughed. I bought (by the pound as they were going for kill) what I thought to be a loud almost black and white pinto pony. I thought he would make a cute driving pony! Cute..cute..cute. Nice weight and beautiful head. As we ran him in to the horse trailer (that my husband had to bring..and a the check book too!) I saw testicles underneath…and two days later..when I had him settled a bit and could get my hand on his lips..I saw them….baby teeth! He was a yearling stud. Took about a week to get him decent in a halter so he could go for his little snip snip trip. And a lovely gelding me made
His hip number added up to 21, so he was named Blackjack…and he found a great home and was loved.
So EVERY unridden horse went to meat buyers? Am I right?
That’s pretty much how it is at Enumclaw, except for babies.
Basically Yes, that was the first auction i have been to since i started riding and my friend and i were really tempted to buy the bucksing mare (actually she was a dun and was around 9 months pregnant) but our parents would haved killed us but we were shocked at how many cremellos there were. Also the had a bucksin paint which i have never seen before in my life (never knew they existed) who went for around 275(private sale)
Yes, it’s shocking. Us polite Canadians are so barbaric. I’ll never forget my first week in the Faculty of Agriculture. I was chatting with a fellow student about his family’s horse farm.
Me: “Oh, Paints. Nice. Do you show them?”
Him: “No, we raise them for meat.”
Sending unwanted or badly trained horses to auction has been a tradition for as long as I can remember. It’s just something people did and do, all the time. Some of the most “horse loving” people I knew thought nothing of sending them to slaughter. In fact, sometimes people who bought OTTB’s that weren’t exceptionally gorgeous were made fun of. “Bought THAT one off the kill truck, she did.”
We slaughtered over 100,000 last year alone. Gross.
Same as that damn homozygous word…I’ve been told that as long as it’s homozygous it’s worth more. Nope, not to me. (not to mention there is no test for it in my breed, Curlies, but people still attempt to get it) I wish it was about improving a breed.
But don’t you know that Homozygous means that they will throw color, be born perfectly broke, crap gold nuggets and tap dance like Fred Astaire? Jeez, what is wrong with you people, I thought everyone knew that!
“Bay mare six thoroughbred broke with paperwork ahanahan. Ridden and went well. 370 meat buyer”
*head explodes* Dear God in Heaven, STOP BREEDING YOU CAN’T EVEN SELL YOUNG BROKE REGISTERED ONES NOW.
Sorry about that. The one horse I really fell in love with as a child was a bay mare. She was a mustang, not a thoroughbred, but still. This is killing me. Maybe the KB bought this one to resell? Yeah, I know, not likely.
Sometimes. I know one of the KB’s that I’ve dealt with usually does re-sell registered mares. Not always but often.
Won’t a lot of KBs gladly resell a horse if specifically approached, too? I hope somebody pulled her out.
Yeah, that was the one who got to me most, too. Registered, ridden, sound, prime age to have potential—-
Ugh, these reports are so hard to read… I wish some of these big time breed/breeding magazines would start publishing some of these auction reports. I guess that would be bad for their business, though, heh.
I have to admit I’ve kind of always thought that cremello and perlino were some of the ugliest colors a horse could be wrapped in. This is the only one I’ve ever seen that I thought was somewhat pretty: Cupids Faded Gold I’m not saying he should be bred (I have no idea what his accomplishments are)… just that I actually think he is sort of pretty and from my admittedly inexperienced eye he looks to have good conformation. But even so, when I see a mostly white horse with a reddish/brown tail like that it makes me think of my gray horse when we used to live in Georgia with all that wonderful red clay… Ugh, drove me bonkers!!
He’s nice enough … the person riding him in a dressage “frame” needs to learn that you ride the horse from the back, not the front. Overbent does not mean in a frame. Oh well.
The problem with these cremello horses is they sunburn horribly — all that pink skin on the face — and they tend to have light sensitive eyes, too.
At least he’s done something and looks like a pleasant fellow. I think he’s a little long in the loin (making it harder to make the connection from back to front), but other than that he’s got good conformation.
Ugh….have to disagree with you asharri. I”ve never seen a cremello or perlino that I thought was a pretty color. IMO the eyes on your example remind me of creepy goat eyes. Ugly yellow eyes….yuck!
I don’t think cremello/perlino is an attractive color either. I wonder if the people that own them don’t so much love the color but see them as a means to an end to pump out all kinds of other Krazy Kolors from anything that can put a foal on the ground?
I think that is it. They just like the color guarantee.
I remember being told growing up that creams were absolutely ugly, but if you had a good one, you could cross it to a chestnut and be sure of getting a palomino.
Unfortunately, a lot of these people seem to be forgetting the ‘good one’ part.
Hey! I have a cremello…granted I pulled her sunburnt, half starved butt out of a killpen. She’s not my top 10 favorite color, but she is nicely made and isn’t that the point??? I bought Halo 1) to keep her from ending up with a byb 2) she has really nice conformation 3) because my 8 horses waste more food in a week than that herd had for 100 horses.
Actually we ended up with 2 from that herd when another filly slipped down the shoot behind her. We couldn’t send her back to that fate, so now we have a future western pleasure/reining prospect and a really nice dressage prospect (the second filly has a better trot and nicer movement than my warmblood!)
Halo and Ginger were bought at an auction in the US, brought into Canada with 98 other yearlings and two year olds for meat. A curious horseperson seen the herd of skinny horses and stopped to find out what was going on. There were paints, palominos, buckskins, a cremello, bays, greys and chestnuts, some grade, some purebreds and even branded ranch stock. The guy who owned them had bought them and brought them to Ontario for slaughter, but he was more than happy to sell them (for twice as much) to private buyers. Eleven of them died from starvation and/or disease but 89 youngsters were saved.
Lol, yeah, his eyes are a little creepy, especially in the photo where he is being ridden. Like I said, I really don’t care for the color myself, I just find that he offends me less than most of the ones I’ve seen. I think it is because he does have at least decent conformation. I feel like the overwhelming majority of cremellos/perlinos have bad conformation. It feels like even more so than most of the other trendy colors. I think it is b/c when you put ugly on top of ugly it is more noticeable. The cremello/perlino color makes bad conformation look even worse to me.
LOL! Now THAT I’ll agree with….ugly color on top of ugly conformation just amplifies ugly.
I dont really know which post to reply to but thought here would be a good place to start to explain about Double Dilutes and conformation. Sometimes even Double Dilutes with superior conformation can be quite hard to photograph and the reason for this(in my opinion may be a good way to put it) is that they have no contrasting color areas.
A solid color horse in the sun will show contrasting depths of it’s color(giving it a sort of 3D effect) yet a Double Dilute seems to have a flat look if you take a pic side on. I have taken hundreds of photos and seen thousands of other peoples photos and find the same problem with them no matter what their breed is. I am of the opinion that it is very unwise to choose or dismiss a Double Dilute stallion to use based on photographs alone. If you have the money and time(I’d like to travel to Europen to look at one to use but alas time and money doesnt allow it).
I agree that many see them as a guarentee of color but there are also owners who see them as more than just a color. I also think that sometimes people who own a good one do become addicted to the color and in an effort to ‘create’ another they can make the mistake of choosing the wrong animal to breed to the one they own, basing choice on color probabilities instead of conformational.
I own a 5 yr old Perlino stallion and havent (yet) found a mare to breed him to in hopes of producing another of quality. He’ll produce lovely single cream(bucky and pally) foals to the mares he’s served but finding the right single or double cream mare to produce another perlino is no easy feat.
If it doesnt happen that will be my loss but I (like many other DD owners) aim to produce quality and would not risk producing a double cream that was inferior. Even in Australia far too many of them end up in the dog pens I suspect it happens all over the world.
There are some Double Dilute owners will not accept single or double cream outside mares to their stallions either. As much as it can offend some mare owners it is important for DD stallion(and mare ofcourse) owners to be extra hard with the scrutiny of an animal destined to produce another DD in my opinion.
The cream gene isnt something new at all. It’s just that now instead of registering them as ‘cream’ their color is recognised and people no longer hide them from the societies that once would not accept them.
Eye color is blue or amber(more common to see amber in cremello than perlino imo for some reason).
Personally I have found less than 100 Double Dilute stallions(through the www) that I feel are of ‘quality’. Ofcourse theres probably more(I know of one) that theres no reference to online but theres plenty of inferior ones around.
What I get angry with is the cross breds stallions of double cream, then often times theres grey or roan hidden in there. Sometimes the stallion owners dont inform the mare owners and they get a shock when their beautiful pally or bucky suddenly greys out(becoming less frequent with more people suing over it). It costs very little to test for roan or grey and be assured that
I have to agree with the sentiment about disliking cremello and perlinos. I don’t understand that trend at all. When Young Rider and the like started publicizing the Cremello breed, I just didn’t get it. I don’t even really care for flashy color (too much time in hunter barns maybe… though I don’t care for the bays most ride either.)
While I like POAs and I showed an adorable bay leopard spotted gelding for a couple season, I would have been just as happy if he were chestnut, probably more since he just adored rolling in his manure in the hours between his bath and whatever event we were going to. We theorized that he did it just to spite me since he didn’t do that when I hosed him down after lessons, only when he saw us pack the trailer and his wraps were put in front of his stall for the next morning. (I was a gluten for punishment with him, he also landed me in the ER, liked to slam on the brakes in front of jumps, and gave me a solid kick to my hip joint when I had the audacity to try to catch him from the pasture.)
My preference is to have a flashy carriage and gait (nice fluidity, extension and pleasant expression) than a flashy coat. Presented with a flashy Paint or a flashy chestnut of equal ability, I’d probably go with the chestnut (the bright penny look is rather fetching in my opinion.)
Whoops, that’s supposed to read “though I really don’t care for the bays either.”
I have to admit that I am very taken with the dilute colors, even cremellos and perlinos.
Though I do prefer perlino to cremello for some reason and my absolute favorite color would have to be a nice sooty buckskin. I will freely admit to liking odd equines however, as I love a GOOD Akhal Teke or Gypsy Vanner. The good ones are unfortunately hard to find though… *sigh*
I like buckskins too
I just think they need to be quality ones, with good conformation and good minds and – of course – trained appropriate to their ages.
Here’s a thought: why doesn’t someone’s organization start posting those reports in magazines? It would cost to do the advertising, but think of how many lives could potentially be saved by not being started to begin with.
It’s a very good thought. I wonder what a full page in some of the equine magazines costs? I will have to do a little research on that.
Perhaps FHOTD readers could pitch in some $$ and take out some ads in Horse Illustrated, Equus, Horse & Rider, Practical Horseman etc. about what REALLY happens at auctions, and what REALLY happens to horses that go to kill (esp. in Mexico). Graphic descriptions and all.
Because people STILL think that we “need” slaughterhouses, and that sending them straight to kill isn’t cruel at ALL.
WAKE UP.
The account featured here some time back where the person went undercover & got photos/video is particularly good source material. A pile of new halters. Hooves with shoes still attached.
That’s not nearly as heartbreaking as having someone’s pet strung up by the hind legs & someone slitting its throat while it’s still alive. After it’s been packed in a double decker for a couple thousand miles of hell on earth.
As far as I remember the Australian Horse Deals magazine will charge you almost 1000 AUD for a full page.. I imagine the price in other magazines would be pretty similar
He certainly does look like he has good conformation for a QH. I even like his size; 16hh. I’m not one for the Cremellos either…But I guess he is handsome enough. I just wish more QH’s looked like him-minus how dilute his color is. He seems to have the matching disposition too. Very Levelheaded.
I see these horrible posts and think of them when I’m oh, visiting in Oregon, at a feed store in Eugene Oregon, one which has a name starting with “C” which has an employee who talks a lot about her KYOOOOT little yearling whose cojones just made their first appearance and how he has JUST NOW discovered MARES woohoo and the only thing dividing him from said mares is a few strands of barbwire which has has run through a couple of times injuring himself but OMH he is SO KYOOOOOT we’re gonna wait to geld him….sound familiar? Fugly – if you have to TELL people this is wrong, stupid, cruel to horses for their preordained future on a doubledecker to horrific torture/murder, you know what it won’t do any good. It WON’T. Because they DO NOT believe you and NOTHING can make them believe you. These kinds of people are so wilfully stupid that they will keep on keeping on, no matter what you or anyone else says! I frankly do not know of a single person who is on this terribly misguided path who actually LISTENED and PAID ATTENTION to education on this topic. They are frankly too damn busy being insular and RIGHT.
This is what the rescues have to face: an unending stream of Craigslisters and auction buyer/sellers who are determined to remain with their IQs right up there with their shoe sizes.
Is it the one by the big Y?
That would be the one. I am SO glad I moved out of that area (waaaay out) HATED what I saw of the literally hundreds of bybs and animal abusers.
We used to say that Ewwwwwgene was the center of the known universe for karmic revenge. Hopefully, she will get hers before her randomly bred foals from a wirecut yearling fuglyboy get theirs courtesy of Mexican Meaters.
Several customers and at least one other employee tried to talk to her about what a bad idea that was. Useless conversations – may as well have spat into the wind.
Does anyone know who the meat buyer is at this auction? Or his/her contact info? Are they one that holds onto the horses for a bit to try to rehome or do they just send them to slaughter.
Thanks
I’ll ask the person who sent it to me.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I wish I lived closer (I’m in the lower mainland, BC) and could have gone. I’m particularily interested in the green broke, preggo (to draft) buckskin mare… I know some meat buyers are quite co operative with potential sales since they can usually make more money that way, and rehome a horse. Tough from a distance but if the person is interested in rehoming, and can send a photo (I know, fat chance) I’d love to take a look and see what I can do.
I was actually at the auction, unfortunately i am under 18 and didnt have a adult with me or any room at my barn or I would have came home with a few, but the pregnant mare was a really nice horse. If I remember correctly she had around 10 rides on her and looked about 14.3ish hands. She was a little spooky (which is understandable) and she is due for her foal in May. I believe they said she was a Fjord/Quarter horse cross.
Thanks for your opinion on her. She sounds nice.
Hopefully I can get some contact info, I’m heading to Edmonton not this weekend, but the weekend after so may be able to escape for a bit to go take a look at her, if she’s still around… 
I thought it was against the law to transport pregnant mares for slaughter, or to take them into a slaughterhouse pregnant or with foal at foot?
It is but the law is not enforced. As evidence, there is a mare who was rescued after she gave birth on the slaughterhouse floor.
While your at it, see if you can get the name of that TB mare (this one: Bay mare six thoroughbred broke with paperwork ahanahan. Ridden and went well. 370 meat buyer)
I sold a mare that matches that description about a year ago. Granted a 6yo bay thoroughbred mare isn’t exactly uncommon, but I’ll still likely know the horse if she was raced at all, and even if I don’t it’s worth it to get her out of there if I can.
I also wouldn’t mine having a few words with her owner and/or trainer. I’ll bet you I can tell you who it is without even looking. I’d be glad to finally be able to prove the bastard is sending horses to kill. I’d LOVE to have some solid evidence to start collecting and throw it in his face when I’ve got enough that he can’t deny it and it’s enough that the actual track and/or race officials actually have to do something, lest I hand it over to a media outlet of some sort and they go down right along with him…… That would be sweetness.
For the life of me I can’t think of his name. I know who he is though. Him and his business partner buy cheap broke horses and then re sell them in a different area when the prices are better. The prices are down now and you can get a really I mean REALLY well broke horse for $500 or less at a sale right now. This kill buyer buys a ton and the bring them to different sales in Alberta. His partner rides them through and they normally end up with the high selling horse. I mean high for the auctions. Last year he showed up at the end of April sale (high prices) with 12 horses and they were selling for $3000 and up. They had the high seller that went for $5700. He is normally at every sale with at least 10 horses. Must be nice to be able to profit a few thousand on a horse that you put minimal time into and guarentee them such a wonder future with the unknown possible sob you sold them to!!!! But at least a few of them that would have otherwise been shipped get a decent home! If I think of his name then I will let you know. Horses are also going really cheap right now because there is no hay in northernish Alberta.
When they say Walter, they mean Walter Chesla, who also owns and shows some quarter horses. He deals a lot when he can; unless he’s arranged a shipment from the auction to kill, then you have to approach him before he ships, and get the horse out of the meat pen (a pretty dangerous task) and have $20 cash, and get the auction house to transfer the horse to your name. He usually always attends the Tofield aution, and usually has a hand attending the nearby auctions on his behalf if he can’t make it.
I’m not familiar with Les, although he has been at a number of auctions I’ve attended. He may be a hand for another dealer.
Another meat dealer in the area is Allen Ide. He will do the same as Walter. $20 bucks, transfer to your name, get it out of the meat pen yourself.
The other dealer I know goes by “Will from Ponoka”, he doesn’t usually attend auctions personally, I’m not sure if he has hands who attend for him, but he breeds working QHs and advertises his services everywhere; “Trade up those old, fat and lame horses for something young and ready to work!”, “Free pickup of unwanted horses!”, “Cash for unwanted horses with delivery!”
Thanks for the info! Well, a $20 markup is nothing, we WISH they were that fair to us down here in the States!
Every time I read these lists I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach…. how are people so heartless, taking their horses to an auction like this to die such a terrible death?
Shouldn’t be surprised, as many horse-people have tried to convince me to dump our 17 yr old paint mare because of her soundness issues and anxious personality. She isn’t competitive anymore and isn’t always easy to ride, but has the sweetest heart & has always tried so hard for us. Never in a billion years could I do that to her, I’m positive she would end up at auction. It makes me sick to even think about it.
Hello! I have been reading this blog for awhile no and never commented on anything but I just have to have a little rant here. I’m really sick of really STUPID people. I know a couple that moved from a big city to an acerage ( 3 acres) in a Subdivison Where there neighbors have Horses mostly mares. But anyways so the first thing they did was buy a couple horses which is fine whatever. They no NOTHING about horses. But anyways. They called me yesterday to ask me when the next Horse sale was because they want to go and buy a STUD. To breed to there two mares that they have. One is a 7 year old sorrel grade horse the other is a 20 year old grey Walker cross I think. Neither one of these 2 mares should be breed which drives me nuts other part that drives me nuts is that they live on 3 acres they are going to buy a stud. They dont have the fencing to hold a stud there fencing is 4 feet with farm fence and a board across the top. There neighbors have mares so I cant see the stud staying home for very long. They NO nothing about having a stud or raising foals. I AM SICK OF DUMB PEOPLE. They shouldnt buy a stud, they shouldnt be breeding just because they want to have a couple babies. These people dont know the first thing about horses. They moved from the city and Now think they know everything about horses even though none of them have ever been around horses.
Thanks for letting me have a little RANT there. I’m just sick of it. If they want a foal there are plenty that need homes.
I am sick of dumb people too, and that story is a CLASSIC example.
Send them this blog, maybe they’ll learn something.
Sounds like your neighbor has an advantage, these people haven’t been in horses long and maybe the stupidity hasn’t sunk in too deep. Could your neighbor talk to them, explain them proper stud care and how they would be liable for any damage he does when he escapes and gets ahold of their mares? (Including the cost of terminating an unwanted pregnancy) If they so desperately want a Kyoooot little baby, they could be informed of all the unwanted foals out there, and they could pick one up that fulfills their every desire, including color? This sounds like a prime opportunity to educate some misguided greenhorns on responsible horse care before they find some asshat with a $200 stud to teach them otherwise. I find guilt and lots of pictures of babies being sent to slaughter quite effective, along with a stern lecture on the perils of keeping a stallion and an appropriate level of understanding and niceness. Maybe they can learn, we all started somewhere.
Get some gruesome video’s/pictures of what can go wrong during foaling. I know that’s not really the big issue here, but it might be enough to scare the shit out of them. Show them what a retained placenta or prolapsed uterus will cost them. Do they even know how to tell if the WHOLE placenta is there? Tell them about what happens when the foal tears the mare’s uterus to shreds, but acts totally normal with absolutely no external signs of the injury and they find their mare dead in the morning and they’re stuck with an orphan foal (poor shit wouldn’t even have a chance of avoiding the kill buyer). Show them what it vet fee’s are if the foal is coming out head first, or only one leg first, or back legs first. Would they even be able to tell which leg is which when they can’t see the rest of the horse? Show them a picture of a foal that’s been strangled by its own umbilical cord. Since I KNOW they’re not testing for it, what happens if they have a lethal white? Are they even going to know if its a lethal white and be able to have it euthanized before it dies an excruciatingly painful death? Do they even have the knowledge to know if both mom and baby are healthy after the birth, or will the animal just have to suffer until it drops dead. You should also tell them that when that mare goes into season after having the foal, there’s a chance the stallion will attack and possibly kill the foal if they aren’t separated.
Could they handle it if the foal got stuck in the mares birth canal so badly it actually has to be cut out in little tiny pieces? If they can’t recognize a breech birth and know what to do about it they have a really good chance of that being a reality for them. I’ve had to go through that, and I almost swore off of going anywhere near breeding EVER again, and it wasn’t even my horse. I do not have a weak stomache by any means, but this one was by FAR the most disturbing things I’ve ever had to witness.
All the problems I’ve listed I’ve encountered PERSONALLY. I’ve never been a breeder and I’ve only worked for high end breeders who’s horses are watched and cared for 24/7 by people who know what they’re doing and have for many years and receive the best veterinary care. They maybe weren’t the best breeders, but they did a lot better job of breeding than fugly ass un-handled stud loose in the paddock with fugly ass mares.
Boy that would be a good blog. One of these days I’ll do that entry – things that can go wrong – but I promise I’ll only link to the pictures so nobody loses their breakfast. I’m with you – there are a million things that can go wrong and they’re NOT rare. A friend of mine just went through a prolapse this winter. The mare was ultrasounded, everything done right – guess what, there WAS a twin in there the vet did not see. Mare lost both, of course, and they nearly lost the mare. Scary scary stuff. And this was a young, very healthy and well cared for mare. Imagine when these things happen to some poor mare living in a field in poor condition to begin with.
Especially with one of them being 20. Far too old to breed a maiden.
(Yes, I know there are career broodmares breeding into their thirties, but if you don’t know the mare’s history, best to assume she’s a maiden).
here’s what you can do, Shannon, it might help. Go to your local government wherever you are located and ask the zoning department what the ordinances are regarding keeping livestock especially stallions. Most cities/towns/counties (this prob’ly won’t be a state law) have strong regs about breeding activities and about keeping stallions. You can get the address of these people, call the local tax assessor and find out how the property is zoned (or your call can be to the Customer Service Department at the local land title insurance company). Take that zoning designation with you when you talk to the county, or city, zoning department. At that point you can decide depending on what they tell you, whether you need to file a zoning complaint. So: if these idiotards are not zoned for any classification that permits livestock breeding or maintaining a stallion you can file a complaint and the city or county will start the process of forcing them to quit, immediately. this may or may not be a “confidential” complaint and if not “confidential” be prepared for some pretty vicious retaliation from the idiotards – has happened, protect yourself and your own critters.
FYI these types of local ordinances range from simply regulating fence height and material for stud-keeping to outright banning of livestock breeding. Zoning ordinances can be a wonderful weapon in the “right” hands!
I feel your pain. My neighbors thought it’d be a great day to buy a cheap Fresian colt and breed him to a bunch of fugly paint mares they bought at an auction in Wyoming. A couple of the mares are decent (seen worse at least), so I tried to keep my nose out of it but…
Then they took in a free mare that I had also considered buying as a companion to my colt. She was a lovely 9 year old, a Trakehner, if I remember right who had a major injury and was never going to be a riding horse. She was fine in a pasture but the second you hopped on her she’d start limping. They bred her (of course), got the foal out of her, and then sold her as a riding horse to some lady. That’s what made me put my foot down and scream. I’m done even trying to be nice.
http://www.lostcreekfriesiansporthorses.com if you want to be even more depressed after the auction report. Note that a majority of their “sold” horses weren’t bred by them.
People are soooo irritating. Just do your best! Call my cynical but it never seems to work…
Ugh. And even worse: if you click on the “stallions” link on their site, there is a huge man riding a horse he is far too big for. That poor animal.
That man is far too fat (not big!) to be on that poor horse’s back.
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
It really does make me sad, all the horses that get a one way trip to canada/mexico.
I was at an Amish auction last weekend. It was quite….interesting. Lots of Standardbreds, Saddlebreds, and Morgans. All were impeccably groomed. The majority were what I would consider underweight, but I’m sure they are just considered fit. The buggy horses went for anywhere between 700-1500. The drafts were more around 300 up. I heard the announcer at one time inform the folks that they could just take one horse up to New Holland, and he’d sell for more than the current bid on him, even if it was to the meat guy. Gah! My friend had to about hold my hands down so I wouldn’t bring home an Amish buggy horse so that I could spoil him rotten and hug him and call him George.
Yeah, lots of Amish in my area too. I’m close to Leabanon Raceway and we see them there all the time getting pacers off the track. We had some Amish guys do some work on our barn (new gutters, other minor repairs) and they were wanting to trade the work for a former Saddlebred fine harness champion we have in a bad sort of way (no deal!). For people living the simple life they sure do seem to favor the flashy harness horses, in my area at least.
My bad- Lebanon Raceway. Fat fingers.
Was it Lebanon Raceway that had the big fire recently? My family is from the Dayton area so I heard about it but can’t remember for sure.
Yes, that was the one.
That is the one! We had just taken a gorgous black SB from there less than a week before the fire for a new boarder. We had considered putting off taking him for a couple weeks because of busy schedules, glad we didn’t.
And everyone is right on about what the Amish do to their horses, they use them up and toss them out. Not that there was any chance of us trading Prince for the gutters they did, but he is a pampered retired show horse now who’s sole purpose in life is to keep the 2 Hackney ponies in check (I swear they worship Satan). He wouldn’t last a week pulling an Amish buggy.
I’ve noticed that, too. I’m in the Cincinnati area, too, over in Clermont county. In the summer, I spend a lot of time with at my in-law’s place in Adams county, and I have noticed that the Amish there have some sharp looking horses. But I would bet anything that they use them hard and send them the same awful places all the other Amish in Ohio do….Sugarcreek, Shipshewana, New Holland. For a people who are supposed to be meek and pure in heart, they sure seem to have a druel streak when it comes to God’s creatures.
Yeah, I live in Southeast Indiana (Wayne Co.) and the Amish here are no different. It KILLS me how they are so romanticized, and yet
• Treat their animals as commodities, and not well-cared-for ones at that
• Spew really awful chemicals all over their fields… with horse-drawn sprayers.
• Beat their children and wives
• Take FULL advantage of Rumspringa *ahem* As in…. beyond 3rd Base…..
• Host endless Pampered Chef and Home Interiors parties
• Give their toddlers Mountain Dew (wait, a LOT of people around here do that)
And then again I’ve met a few Amish who keep around pensioner animals, just ‘cuz. I’ve met some who are decent parents who encourage creativity in their children. But they’re definitely the exception.
I’m still trying to figure out how the hell they have web sites and facebook pages. Aren’t they supposed to be against technology? But damn, they will use it to make a buck!
Have you ever seen the Amish online dating website? Pretty sure it isn’t real, but it’s kinda funny.
Fugsy, the general objection of these communities is to inappropriate technology (by their lights), not all technology. There is a community that chose to go to milking machines instead of hand milking as their ancestors had always done because they could spend more time with each other instead of sitting alone with the cows. But they still blow out the oil lamps at 10 p.m. because they see no advantage in sitting up late.
Yeah. The Amish horse issue bugs the crap out of me. I work as a stablehand to a Standardbred trainer and wow…the things you see at the barn. I love Harness Racing and I think most of the trainers and drivers I’ve met love the sport and love the horses, but definitely not all of them and caring for them post-racing is clearly not a high priority. I wish Fugs would address it because Thoroughbreds get all the attention, but the fact is that Harness Racing typically has lower purses, less of a public face, and is more subject to abuse, I think. Anyway, most lucky retired Standardbreds make their way down to the Amish for use as buggy horses. By lucky, I mean they are flashy (black color preferred–I guess that’s just more modest?), sound, fast, and sane, AND that they have a trainer who thinks it’s worth it to ship ‘em down rather than taking a couple hundred from a kill buyer. You can’t blame the Amish for taking advantage of the surplus of these gorgeous horses, though you -can- fault them for their “training” which is a brutal way of ensuring that an insured horse with no potential “has an accident.” Ugh. And they’re generally rough with their horses in general. But at least they’re rehoming old racers instead of breeding, which is good. In general, though, trainers and owners need to be better about euthing or rehoming their own standardbreds. These guys live a while and don’t “break down” as often as OTTBs due since they haven’t been bred down to speed machines on stick legs (though since Harness Racing seeks to emulate Thoroughbred racing in every way…just wait. Ugh). But they are way too hot for most riders, and it’s damn near impossible to get them to canter/lope after a lifetime of trotting or pacing. Plus they have mouths of steel and will take off if you put pressure on the bit. I wish there was a better solution, but for now I’m grateful the Amish give homes and a new purpose to many of these great horses.
See I’ve actually found OTSBs to be easier than OTTBs. I think they’re much more mellow! Yes, teaching them to canter is a challenge but once they get it, they get it.
My friend has one who is doing awesome and learning to jump.
The jug heads?? REALLY?? you like them better?? I’m shocked and appalled fugs
LOL
If you think what the Amish do to horses is bad you should check out their vast numbers of puppy mills in PA and OH (some in MO too) and educate yourself about what they do to dogs who are too old or sick to continue reproducing.
Yeah Fugly I am thinking about that oft-requested “fugly dog of the day” type of blog…just sad that such a blog is actually necessary, just like yours has become so vital in the battle to stop the abuses of horses.
Yeah, the Amish are VERY guilty of puppymilling.
And veal-farming.
And factory chicken farming.
My sister the vet tech got sort of good results when an Amish puppymiller came in (bulldogs)… they were able to educate him some, and he became better with his dogs. He just didn’t see them as living creatures with feelings and social needs.
He’s probably a ginormous exception. *sigh*
My last two horses came from the Auction. Angel was pulled from the kill pen by a lady who sold her to me. She just said she had bought her from the auction, no mention of kill pen. Not like I would of been upset, Im very happy that I have Angel and that she was saved. I actually went to the auction house and they pulled the ladies info and told me Angel was pulled from the kill pen a few weeks earlier and gave me the address of the Amish man who put her there. I of course wrote him a letter asking him to call me. Waiting for almost two weeks, the man finally called. He was about 90 years old and I could barely understand him. The only info I got out of him was that she was a buggy horse that shyed at slow moving objects like tractors. Didn’t know how old she was or her breed or that she was even broke to ride. Well Angel is one amazing 10-12 year old Arabian/standardbred (thats my guess). She is sweet, but has no clue what love and hugs are. Im working on that!
My other is a 6 year old arabian I named Kimerah. I bought her at the local auction for 35.00. Only one person was bidding and I couldn’t see who is was, I was scared it was the kill buyer, so I raised my hand and the rest is history. She was an amish horse broke to ride and drive. Although I do not think id be putting a cart behind her anytime soon! She’s very spirited! But she was the same way as Angel was…had no clue what affection was. I bought her jan. 1st. She now follows me arond the pasture like a puppy, just wanting me to give her hugs and kisses! I did get a hold of the boy who took her to auction and i asked him what her name was and he said, they just caller her “the arabian”. Poor Poor girl, she loves her new name and even looks up when I call her now!
Amish (most of the time) do not give their horses the love that they need or want. For me, my horses are apart of my family and I treat them that way!
Ok anyways, that was my 2 cents…
There are few things more satisfying than teaching a horse that it is ok to have a personality.
I’m glad your two girls found you!
Thank you…Im glad they found me too! angel is very close to being dead borke, specially when out with other horses. Nothing wrong with her, sound and sane. Not sure why she was in the kill pen. Very happy outcome for all of us!
My most likely guess is…have you driven her?
I’d bet she was only driven and hated it…I know a pony who hated harness work and is much happier as a riding horse, even though he’s not built to carry a rider at *all*.
A horse that ends up in the wrong job has a very real risk of going to kill, unfortunately. (In fact, as I recall, this pony was dumped at an auction too…)
Our aged, rescued from the kill pen Belgian is just learning about “bonding” now, too. All he does right now is eat his breakfast in my hair (puts his head right on top of mine, and lets food fly everywhere). He also likes the occasional neck hug. Anyhow, the Amish thanked him for his 20ish years of service by not feeding him for apparently months, as he was SEVERAL hundred pounds underweight. We figured he’d just be sound enough for a saddle horse, but after only 3 months he is in good weight, towing 3/4 ton pickups out of the ditch, and skidding logs on Saturday afternoons. He likes having a job (like all horses do, I suppose). I even have him turning barrels… at half the speed of smell =p
Seriously, all those years of service, and you can’t so much as turn him out with the cows and their round bale? I’m sure he’d have been more than happy for that.
Fugs – OT, but did you catch this weird article about the Yakima Tribes investigating some horse deaths?
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_dead_horses.html
I know this is off topic, but the title just came to me when I saw this horse… Is it me or does she have wrong in all the right places? check out the link… http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/1624852417.html
And Zinks Major Kid sang from the breeding shed…
“If loving you is wrong…I don’t wanna be right
Even though that huge wither gave me an awful fright!
But your red roan color made me so hot and heavy
And that nest of a neck is sooo damn sexy…”
*spews diet coke*
I am wondering what my co-worksers are thinking right now as I laugh out loud from my office! That was halarious!
LMAO!……Yippee! My first laugh of the day!
I have never seen such a high wither, matched with a short croup, thick neck, and cow hocks! ….But Her front legs aren’t too bad. o_0
That red roan mare…I don’t know about her croup, but what gets me is her freakishly short neck and the camel hump that is her withers. Yikes! She isn’t so bad looking in three of the photos, but the upper left one that photographs her from the side really accentuates her many flaws.
I haven’t quite developed the eye for correct conformation that many others here have, but even I can tell that’s something that should never be bred…or created in the first place! She may be a red roan, but no pretty or flashy color could POSSIBLY justify or salvage THAT, be it blue roan, cremello, perlino, paint, purple and green polkadots or what have you.
And she’s a halter champion?! Good lord! But then again, considering what’s winning in the halter circuits these days, I probably shouldn’t be too surprised, all things considered.
I reeeally hope she’s never ever bred. But that would probably be asking too much.
A wee bit off topic, but… Does anyone know of any auctions like this around Lexington, KY? I wouldn’t mind taking my trailer there, and spending a few hundred to take at least one horse home…
‘Cause, I mean “Bay mare six thoroughbred broke with paperwork ahanahan. Ridden and went well. 370 meat buyer” That’s exactly what I want to get my hands on right now, but a kill buyer out there can get one?
Not sure what Tattersalls has going on, but I know a lot of people that have bought some really nice Saddlebreds and Walkers there CHEAP recently. Haven’t been there in a couple years myself but it’s a decent place, nicer than Sugarcreek and other low end auctions. It’s right off New Circle Rd. in Lexington.
There are auctions in Paris, Richmond, and Mt. Sterling, KY on a fairly regular schedule. You can call the stockyards at each place to get the schedule. Paris and Richmond used to alternate Saturdays but I don’t know if they do any more. Good luck. Be prepared.. it’s not pretty.
Auctions are terrible terrible places and I do believe the horses know. The fear is palpable. The looks in their eyes – pure terror. They KNOW. If you are at all sensitive to emotions from others whether animals or humans you will be overwhelmed at what comes at you from these doomed souls.
Yeah, I agree. I’ve had horses pretty much SCREAM at me to please get them out of there. I agree that you can pick up on it. Some of them definitely know they are not heading anywhere good.
Just go straight to the racetracks. Tell grooms, trainers, and anyone who works at the track that you are looking for a cheap, sound, nice horse and you are willing to give references (personal, vet, farrier) to prove you have a good place to keep the horse and that you are a good person with a reasonable amount of experience. Not all racehorses are used only for racing. Some of them are ridden for pleasure off-season… they may not be polished, but still, nice started horses. A trainer with a heart (and there ARE those) will put down a horse rather than send it to slaughter, so they are really happy to find a good home for their slow horses.
If you’re willing to travel a little farther, the killbuyers are prominent at auctions like Sugarcreek or Shipshewana. I know they’re everywhere, but those two auctions are like a meat-buyer’s convention.
Here’s a list by state: http://www.alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Horse_auctions Seems like there’s one in Paris, do you know where that is?
You know, you’re absolutely right. We picked up a gorgeous (but underweight and in horrible condition) breeding stock paint who has the kind of bloodlines (World champions on face papers.. almost every horse) on her face papers nothing younger than an 88 model.. but she was 14 and not broke. So I got her broke to where 11 year olds could ride her and she trail rides. She doesn’t do a whole lot of anything, but she’s fat and sassy and could easily sweep up the show pen in broodmare or open halter and tote an intermediate rider down the trails. It took me very little time to fix her broodmare ways. And we’re selling her and getting a lot of inquiries, and I think its because I put that time into starting her and getting reasonable capable, probably never make it to world as a pleasure horse at 15 now, but who knows? She’s got many years left in her.
Same thing for stallions. I train and exhibit for a local breeder who specializes in ranch versatility, halter and dun factor horses. Her stallion has a “job” because he is a working ranch horse. He’s young enough I convinced her that getting him in the show pen and pointing him up will only help him and his foals. He’s 8. We fight (the stud and I) sometimes but he took his first round of showing VERY well. He’s the top standing Aged Stallion for our regional QH association at halter. And will hit the performance pen in April. He had it all going for him offspring and offspring success etc.. but that’s not enough anymore. Stallions need to be in the pen doing something.
**note: Before anyone says anything, she drops 2 foals a year and they’re sold before they hit the ground. Many of them are pointing up, others are working on large operation cattle ranches for a living. She doesn’t stand him to stud outside her own mares, either.**
Sorry to go on and on, but I firmly believe, no matter how old they are (especially if you’re trying to stud out a horse) they can do SOMETHING that gets points and possibly wins them and you some cash. It saves even broodmares, who have probably served you many years, from being a horse in that list of yours.
Perfect example. You TOTALLY changed that Paint mare’s life. TOTALLY. They don’t HAVE to make it to the show ring. They just need to be safe for an average person to trail ride.
And kudos to you for taking the lady with the ranch horse into showing him. His success will make his babies more valuable, and just think – now she has a horse who has proven he can halter AND do ranch work. That’s a combination a lot of people are interested in.
Thanks. Maybe he’ll make it to the magazines one day (I’m partial to him whether he’s breeding or not. He’s just plain FUN to be around). We’ll be hauling to to do ranch hand classes at NRCHA events in May and eventually, when I tune him up more, do the actual NRCHA classes. He knows it all, I just have to keep his brain in his head when we travel and not his.. *ahem*
Usually I’m okay with the top echelon breeders continuing their business as even most have slowed down some but now I’m thinking that EVERYONE from all breeds and discplines need to take a year off from breeding. Instead take in project horses and give them an upgrade in life. That would be great. The sport horse breeders- take in some of those thoroughbred and TB crosses that are so casually discarded at auction or on craigslist and give them 12+ month of training in lieu of the time it takes to prep & breed a mare, the pregnancy to birth, and see the foal to weanling stage. For many horses you can even get a decent short show season in as well. With as many foals that will come into being this year- if even half the number were replaced with ‘rescue upgrades’- man think of how IMPROVED our equine industry would be! Such a pipe dream I know… I understand how horse breeding is the backbone of many farms and the racing industry but at the same token one does need to take a moment to reflect a new foal’s impact overall.
I think that’s a great idea! I love the project horses. They are my favorite
At our own local sale was a pair of Amish trained driving Morgan mares – $10 each. A pair of driving Welsh ponies (one mare and one gelding) – $35 each. As you can see, looks and training even did nothing to help save these horses. Just think what the chances are for unbroke, ungelded, unregistered fuglies people are producing?
Maybe the govt or breed registries could offer some kind of incentive to not breed your horses this year? Maybe thats the only way to get down the numbers? I cant come up with any other way other than mandatory spay and geldings for a few years to cut back on the amount of breedable animals but then we may lose out on some really nice animals that we want to breed. For dogs and cats the spay/neuter would be a better option I think cause honestly their populations are just crazy.
For horses I think the incentive would be a draw for BYB’s because they would get money for not doing anything…or for gelding or spaying their horse and this may also have an effect on welfare in the long run. For larger scale breeders who are breeding for the sake of performance horses they would benefit because the market wouldnt be flooded with crap and their stock even the lesser would be worth more. They could collect the incentive by Gelding/spaying and then selling and then boost their name as a responsible breeder.
Am I rambling? I just think this would work!
Well, they pay farmers not to grow certain crops so why not? I mean, on some level they’re aware of supply and demand. It’s just that with horses, many in government are so damn stupid they’re still offering incentives TO breed (particularly on the state level). Look how many states give you tax breaks if you breed horses but none if you just own them. More judgmentarded thinking.
MSN is a bad, bad, BAD idea.
Did you know it’s illegal to breed housecats in Rhode Island? Or that California attempted to pass an MSN law that would have shut down that state’s police dog breeding program?
MSN is bad.
A gelding incentive, though, hrm. Fine idea!
OK, call me stupid, but, I don’t see what’s wrong with making it illegal to breed housecats. There are millions of housecats killed in shelters every year, no one NEEDS to be breeding housecats.
As for the police dogs in California, they can buy dogs, they don’t need to breed their own. Most of them are unstable, nutjobs anyway (don’t know if it’s the breeding or training/handling, I suspect both). I worked at a veterinary hospital that treated that city’s police dogs. Only the doctor was allowed in the exam room with them (hospital policy) because they were so unstable. Can’t say much for the handlers either, on one dog’s chart, in HUGE red letters it said “Dog AND handler cannot be trusted!!” underlined several times.
I think mandatory spaying/neutering/gelding is an excellent idea, it’s about the only way the indiscriminate breeding of dogs/cats/horses will be controlled. I also think anyone who wants to breed should have to apply for a waiver and have to have a license to do so, and anyone breeding animals without a license should be fined. Some serious action needs to be taken to get this crap under control. God knows you can’t rely on people to be responsible.
Yeah, I don’t see anything wrong with making it illegal to breed housecats, either. I rescue cats…trust me…a fine would go a long way toward getting people off their dead butts to get them speutered!
I have no problem with a breeder’s license for any/all animals and it needs to be expensive enough to discourage the BYB’s. Sure you’ll still have the rich and stupid to deal with, breeding HYPP positives and such, but at least the total number of animals will be decreased enough that the rescues/kind hearted won’t be totally overwhelmed the way they are now.
What you guys all forget is that the npeople who push these laws through have an ideal number for domestic animals.
ZERO.
The Rhode Island law makes it illegal to breed ANY housecats. No matter how careful the breeding is being done. It would not take long for there to be no housecats.
Other MSN laws have been proposed that make it economically feasible to breed ONLY if you are milling. Or have show requirements that are impossible to meet.
MSN is a tool for genocide. There are other ways. There are better ways. Fugly, you have never said NOBODY should breed. You have said RESPONSIBLE people should breed.
I am all for incentives to sterilize inferior animals. I am AGAINST the government dictating what responsible breeding is…because it very readily turns into no breeding.
And guess what…the little BYB operations, especially for smaller operations, would continue just fine. Its not that hard to hide a few kittens. These laws hurt the responsible before the irresponsible. What we need is a method that does the reverse.
I dont know what MSN is (I plea ignorance)…well other than Micro Soft Network, LOL. But I do think that just one year with a major decrease in breeding would show significantly in the auction pens, and Im just not sure how we could encourage the BYBs to stop.
Maybe a new ad campaign for the BYB’s along the lines of “Dont selled it until you geld it” cause you know it wont stick unless it rhymes
Im trying real hard to work out a solution for all of us responsible people so we dont have to keep banging our heads…..!
Jennifer R,
Please show me where/how the proposed California law would have “shut down that state’s police dog breeding program”. That is a flat out lie.
This is wording cut-and-pasted directly from the proposed SB 250 bill:
“The bill would not be applicable to any owner or breeder of a dog used in the business of shepherding, herding, or guarding livestock, or cultivating agricultural products, to any owner or breeder of a dog used for hunting or for the purposes of field trials, or to any owner or trainer of a guide dog, signal dog, service dog, peace officer’ s dog, or firefighter’s dog, as defined, provided the dog is licensed, as specified, and the owner or breeder has purchased any required hunting license. The bill would provide that its provisions shall not be construed to prevent any local governing body from adopting more stringent requirements.”
MSN laws work, and they protect animals from what we are reading right here in this blog post (though enacting it on horse/livestock owners is a whole ‘nother ball of wax. But thats beside my point).
See this link for proof from Santa Cruz county that MSN works. Over a five year period, they say a 64% drop in impounds. How is that not something you’d want to see continued everywhere?
The version I saw did not have that provision. (Remember, people, all bills go through multiple revisions). That does make it more reasonable.
However, you are making me out to be against dropping impounds. I am NOT. I am against MSN because it is a major tool used by PETA in their campaign of genocide against our companion animals and such laws are often so badly worded as to represent either a complete moratorium on breeding or to penalize the small show breeder producing a litter or two a year whilst letting the puppy mills continue.
INCENTIVES are the way forward. Not MSN.
I have relatives in RI, and one of them wanted to get a kitten for their daughter. They went to all the shelters they could find, and you know what? Not a single kitten. To which I say FANTASTIC, because that means that there’s not a surplus of kittens getting dumped at shelters to only grow past the fluffy stage and not be “cute enough” anymore and put to sleep because of overcrowding.
And where did they find a kitten?
Yes, no kittens in the shelter is a good thing. But not when it means there are no kittens of quality either.
But mea culpa, I had the Rhode Island law wrong…you CAN get a permit to have an unaltered cat for $100 a year. Either it’s changed since I last looked or I remembered it wrong. Either’s possible.
(I will note I have no problem with *some* forms of MSN, such as the city neutering dogs that keep being found roaming…because that doesn’t hit responsible people).
$100 a year sounds fair to me. If you’re breeding show quality kittens, that won’t hurt too much.
Well if breeders are doing it as a business the IRS generally won’t “let” them take a year off. Even to the point where the IRS goes to US Tax Court and the judge says if you are a breeder and not all your mares are pregnant every year you have to use “in vitro fertilization” to get them pregnant. That’s right. Even though there is in reality no such thing as a “test tube” foal though there is embryo transfer. If you doubt this IRS nonsense go look up In Re Surridge in US Tax Court rulings. Unbelievable. There is something breeders can do, however, that will help save their operation as a business and still cut down or stop for a while on the baby factory part (I use the word factory because not too many years ago a card-carrying “expert” wrote an article for Arabian Horse Times where he stated in so many words “THINK OF YOUR MARES AS FACTORIES.” I kid you not. So what can horse biz people do? CHANGE THEIR BUSINESS PLAN. They should have written business plans anyway to enhance their position as a legitimate business operation. They can change that plan with the help of a knowledgeable equine-business oriented tax planner, might be a CPA or might be a lawyer or both (both is good but there are darn few who have their LLM in tax as attorneys plus their CPA and even fewer of those know anything about agricultural enterprises).
I agree that if row crop growers are paid to leave fields fallow in some years, livestock producers should have the same avenue of relief.
Unfortunately most breeders are doing it as hobby farming and are skating perilously close to the edge of the so-called “safe harbor” provisions under the Internal Revenue Code.
In times past, a lot of these dealers would just ship a load of cheap horses to another sale to make a quick flip profit — I don’t know if that’s true these days, or not. It was a miserable life, but the horses weren’t going to the kill right away. I find it hard to believe that someone on the bottom feeder ladder isn’t picking up cheap horses and trucking them to another auction to make a few hundred bucks.
I hate this side of the horse business — I was exposed to it for a short time, and it’s quite repugnant. Horses aren’t cattle.
I just want to let you know that people are listening, Fugs! This winter, I sent one of my mares (Sara) to the trainer to be started over fences. She was started under saddle at four/coming five, the winter BEFORE she had the honor of being a mama. So, I now have a well bred Welsh broodmare who can walk, trot, canter and jump a course with lead changes about 80% of the time. (She can also do the most amazing roll backs I have ever seen!)
Sara has had two years off of mama duties, so I plan on putting her back in foal this year for a 2011 foal. (The sire is my 10 year old stallion that has been showing under saddle for the last five years and finished third in the NATION this year in a performance class called Ridden Welsh Classic. He has also been a leadline pony for the last five years.) But Sara’s main job this spring, summer and fall is to be the pony my son rides at home between his lessons. The pony he will be showing this year will be in full-time training, so Sara will give him a chance to ride more than once a week.
Your ponies are gorgeous and your son is a lucky kid to be growing up with an assortment of beautiful and well trained ponies. That was the childhood I wish I’d had!
A friend of mine sent me to this blog about two years ago or so. She thought I might find it interesting. I had no idea how much I would learn. A lot of it appalled me but, I now read it almost every day. More than that, it has saved two horses lives. Two years ago I bought a morgan from a “rescue,” really a dealer, but she had saved him from the meat buyer. She didn’t check to see what I wanted him for though…cash and he was mine… so hence the “dealer” name. He came with a few issues probably some came from the gaming and team penning he was doing at the dealers. He is now my nice easy going trail horse. This fall with hay prices sky-rocketing in Alberta I told my niece I might have room to feed a pony over the winter…. a winter project. Well, she went on a mission to find a pony that might otherwise not have a home. The result of her search was a wild, unbroke welsh who would have gone through an auction just like this one at Tofield or maybe Innisfail. He was at a dealer’s, who was taking him along with a bunch of other horses to the auction that weekend, at the end of November. We turned up with trailer in tow. He was so wild we couldn’t get near him. He was dragging a six foot rope from his halter and was terrified of the dealer. He literally jumped in the trailer. “Duke” was a handsome buckskin but his colour would not have saved him either. I would never have thought to do this if it had not been for reading this blog. So Duke….now Merlyn thanks you as does my morgan, Gold.
Here are some photos of the little guy:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=122891&id=671948239&l=5bd9fdb865
Now, see, this is the kind of post that makes me not care who hates me, threatens me, or thinks I’m a bitch.
I saw the pics and I loooove buckskin pony. He is ADORABLE!
Fugly we LOVE bitchery especially yours and if you are receiving hate mail you are hitting home just like you intended. I think there are now legions of idiots who are stopping or reducing what they have been doing not because they suddenly magickally started caring about their horses but solely and only because they might end up on Fugly!
OMG– that is the most beautiful pony I have ever seen! Good on you for rescuing him!
I hate, with a passion, people that have unbroke/never ridden broodmares. How can you evaluate what you are breeding to unless you know how that horse goes under saddle? I understand if it was injured…but damn it ride everything else. I bought 2 broodmares last year, not that I needed more horses to ride, but both were ridden within 60 days. One is a broke to death pleasure horse and the other was a green broke working cow horse. The pleasure horse is bred, other is open (maybe for my stud). I have ridden every mare I have bred, If you can’t manage that, you have too many mares.
And, hey, ya’ know what I’m not breeding? my pretty, sweet blue dun mustang. She really is so kyooot… and if you want one GO TO THE BLM!
As for the Auction issue…I know that there is a surplus of horses, but good broke horses in central CA on craigslist 1500, easy. It’s a good trail horse, not spooky… snapped up. I snapped up my 2 newbies last year for 500 ea only because the seller was a friend, and I took them within a week (I expected to be laughed at, because it was a really low offer for them.)
No kidding…if anyone wants a mustang, the BLM has a huge variety to choose from. I really do not see any way to condone breeding mustangs when we have so many that are literally homeless. Let’s get them off the range first — whether you like this fact or not, it’s totally inevitable that they cannot stay there — and then if we actually start having a shortage of them, then you can think about having a mustang breeding program.
I couldn’t disagree with you more on removing them from the range. I used to agree with you on that and would give the BLM the benefit of the doubt. But I had to live in the state that elected Ken Salazaar, and he is the *last* man that I would want making decisions like which horses to round up when. When there’s a total 2700 horses on a range that’s over a million acres who are all perfectly healthy, then removing 1922 horses off that much acreage is ridiculous. The ran the horses at the Calico Complex so hard two foals literally had their hooves fall off. Over 50 horses dead in one round up alone, and it’s being done with our tax dollars. I don’t’ see the logic in adding another 12,000 horses to BLM holding facilities in 2010 alone if they’re healthy on the range. The BLM doesn’t have the room for the horses they have already!
That said, I agree 100% on the breeding Mustangs. Nothing frustrates me more than seeing BLM branded Mustangs being listed at stud or sold as broodmares. I’d love to give all those idiots a piece of my mind… more like a piece of my fist in their face. :-\
Oh, I think they’re effing up the round-up thing, big time. I mean, they put a kill buyer in charge of it. WTF? But I do not believe the horses can just stay there in the wild because it’s inevitable that the wild is becoming the, um, non-wild and that will continue to happen. The ranchers don’t want them there, they consider them to be a pest. I simply don’t believe there’s any way to keep them where they are, and the best outcome is adoption or euthanasia if no home can be found within a reasonable time period as opposed to slaughter/starvation.
Now, do I think the BLM will continue to fuck up? Of course. Our government at work. And at least half of you reading this want to put them in charge of health care! As a friend of mine says, when the government shows it can take care of Social Security, we will think about giving them another pet.
I’m not so sure. You have to remember that wild belongs to the government, and it doesn’t matter how badly in debt the country is – it’ll be a cold day in hell before they give anything up, even land. So these herd areas won’t be shrinking any time soon. If the Mustangs wander off government land, then they’re no longer protected by the federal government and the ranchers can do with them what they will. The ranchers aren’t going to go under if the limits of subsidized grazing are kept to a lower head count. The idea of my money being used for roundups and subsequent care of these horses so that a few people can make a little more money off beef that’s being shipped off to China just doesn’t sit right.
I’m a little more sympathetic to round ups in Wyoming or California where so much of the herd area is surrounded by ranch land. But in the middle of Nowhere, Nevada? At a time when our country is over a trillion dollars in debt the BLM wants to go another 50 million over budget? Let’s face it, Mustangs will never be euthanized en mass so long as there are environmental groups.
I’m trying to think realistically here because it’s very easy to get into hippie-mode when talking about Mustangs. And why the heck am I discussing this in the comments of an auction report? Anyway, it is just my humble opinion that there’s too much evidence of the BLM cooking the books and not enough evidence that these horses are really on the verge of starvation and need to go.
An outside group, independent of the government or the advocates should be hired to do a brief study on how many horses there really are and how much the range can practically support. At Calico the BLM estimated there were over 4,000 and got a reality check that it was consierably less. How many other herds are they way off on number wise? Now that PZP has been used for multiple years on these horses, reproduction rates have gone down dramatically, so much that some herds are not seeing any growth at all. Those herds are still being rounded up.
And thanks for the reminder about health care. Lord what a disaster…
Aww poor kids. God forbid you own a horse and RIDE it too.
PS if I ever see a fuschia and chartreuse zebra-striped sabino I am going to pee my pants with glee!
I think that a zebra-striped chartreuse and fuschia colored horse sounds hideous personally. Dear God, those colors clash horribly in home decor, imagining them on a horse makes my eyes hurt just thinking about it, lol. :p
A leopard print horse, or maybe one with a tasteful fleur de lis pattern? Now THAT I’d like to see. XD
Im so glad that I live in Hawaii, where I don’t have to worry about slaughter houses. Who wants to ship a horse to Mexico from here? There are some ignorant ass holes here that breed horses that have done no better accomplishments then walk and shit at the same time while out in the pasture.
I just got my first horse who happens to be a cremello, and the ranch I got him from is just wonderful! All of their horses are trained and most of them have showed, some winning as much as 50,000 cash in shows! I love seeing people who breed horses responsibly.
My blog: spikestar.wordpress.com
We love visiting Hawaii, but keeping horses there seems so expensive! I was talking to a woman who boarded her horse at a dressage barn — $30 A BALE for hay because they ship in it from the PNW. I am sure some folks do it cheaper, there are a lot of horses on the Big Island, but still, it seemed insane compared to the Midwest. She actually tried to sell me a horse, like I could afford the $5K alone to fly it back to where I live.
Annoying weather does mean cheaper hay and land cost, if nothing else.
Your right, it is very expensive to keep horses here, expecially since I live in an area without much grass. Bales are 25 dollars each, and most people find it was cheaper to just use cubes and pellets. On the plus side, the feed that is brought in is very good quality, because they dont want to spend the money to ship in poor quality hay.
I’m new to this site as of tonight. Sorry, I know I’m posting in the wrong place. I’m far from computer savy! Anyway, I have a doozy craigslist post for you all. I’m sure most of you have seen stupid horse owners at their best, but here’s one for the books. http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/grd/1625362791.html
Oh My God. I think my head just blew up.
9 month old STUD colt…under a saddle…With The Three Year Old Nephew On Him. Get out of the gene pool. I won’t put a saddle on anything under 2.5 year olds…but they saddle break a not really yearling.
I won’t put my 9 year old up on something that isn’t broke, and he has a seat.
WTF is wrong with them?
Icing on the cake? No helmet on the kid AND the baby is tied. Just waiting for a train wreck. (I’ve seen broke pack horses train wreck when tied… I wouldn’t expect more from a baby than I do an adult.)
http://clhorseads.blogspot.com/2010/03/stupidity-just-never-ends.html
Comments widely encouraged.
Scaaaaaaarrrrry! Is that foal hooked to a pony wheel?!?!
Well, that saves me from digging through CL tonight…
http://clhorseads.blogspot.com
I got so sick and tired of seeing these types of ads, I couldn’t help myself any more. I rant daily and it helps tremendously.
Thank you very much Okiesgirl! Saved me an hour tonight digging through posts.
OMG. I thought the baby was on a miniature donkey or osmething at first, since the ad headline said bucksin tobiano… then on to read the colt is 9 months old and they are saddling it and the baby is on that one? I’m also not seeing a bunch of buckskin tobiano under what shows from around the saddle…
That poor poor foal.
I thought the same thing… Is he sure that isnt a donkey…?!?!? WTF?
Oh Christ. That’s my hometown! *groans in embarrassment*
Nice going, Oklahoma. A nine month old stud colt being ridden. Brilliant! Yeeeeeah, know what would be even better? GELDING him, allowing him to GROW UP, and someday making him a lovely little trail mount for someone. He sounds like a sweet boy, but then again, maybe the hormones haven’t had a chance to kick in yet. That sweet baby could turn into a thousand pounds of aggressive teeth and hooves mighty quick once he gets some more weight and size on him if he doesn’t get some much needed brain surgery fairly soon.
And a three year old on his back without a helmet? Yet another Darwin award nominee. Poor kid. It’s not his fault that his mother is a moron.
I’d comment on more, but it’s late and I’m tired. There’s just so much fail. Epic, epic fail in that ad.
One more thing: He may be an interesting color, but I don’t know if it’s just because he’s still a baby, but from what I can tell, he’s a scrawny little thing that isn’t much to look at…and probably won’t be all that impressive when he’s full grown. The only noteworthy thing about him will be his pretty coat color. *sighs*
Anyways, I’m off to bed now.
Last summer i was working for this family from my church who had about 20 some horses (2 nasty studs) who they did nothing with. There were 3 that were halter broke and none have ever had their feet done because apparently “some horses need to have their feet done but others don’t” anyway my first day there, what we did was load up 7 of their horses including a proud-cut gelding(what is the point in that??) and a 4 year old mare with her colt at her side and sent them to the Tofield Auction. Anyway on our way back he said that most-likely all the horses would be sold to the meatman. I was 15 at the time and i didn’t really have any say but i really have to question why these people got into horses if they feel no remorse for sending all these animals to slaughter. Then again, they left me, at intermidiate rider, by myself alone with 3 horse i was supposed to “work” with and start while they went and visited relatives…
But if anyone is looking for some project quarter horse to rescue and they live in Alberta you should send me an email cause they have 20 that still need to be removed from these people’s custody.
Thia is the same auction that had a registered w/papers gelding/mare pair of Clydesdales 2&3 yrs old. The mare was exceptionally pretty with a big white blaze and a black star. They also went to the kill pen, along with a perch filly and her dam!!! More and more quality horses are ending up in kill pens, yet people seem to close their eyes and continue breeding their low end fuglies! When the market floods, the good go down the drain with the bad…
This list is so sad, and so unnecessary. It’s so hard to read these reports, but thanks, FHOTD, for posting them anyway. I used to ride with a wonderful dressage trainer who had nothing but warmbloods, which is fine, except she would sneer at anything that was not a warmblood. I have no issues with warmbloods, but there are a lot of great horses out there that are not warmbloods are pedigreed that deserve a home and deserve to be someone’s horse (but not bred).
Ha….ok, I can tell from reading that post that I haven’t finished my coffee. That’s supposed to read “horses that are not warmbloods OR pedigreed”
OT and dog related but still sort of related because it is about Krazy Kolor breeding. There was a story in the news yesterday about a U-Haul truck pulling up to animal shelter and dropping off 3 litters of pups, their mamas and their daddy. Why? Because the asshat breeders were trying for “blue” pitbulls and NONE of the puppies were blue! Guess what…neither were any of the parents!!! D’oh!
http://www.wyff4.com/news/22707850/detail.html
Oh lovely. Hopefully that news article will get them adopted… otherwise they’re probably toast. Most people adopting dogs don’t want a pit bull…
Sorry, this is the last auction report I’ll read.. It sickens me to think of their fate, and I’m helpless, I can’t save them.. Gah..WTF.. stop breeding..make sure you follow up, if and when you sell, if you really love your horse..I don’t have anything left to say..playing the lottery.. maybe some day..
OT, but WTF!
http://columbus.craigslist.org/grd/1626418289.html
“This gelding is HYPP H/H, but do not let this scare you as this is not a problem and he can be put on a daily medication to prevent an attack as a precaution.”
Really. What, pray tell, is this MAGIKAL medication that cures HYPP? Karo syrup?
This website promotes breeding anything diluted. They all say how great their horses are and pat each other on the back, when none of them have done a damn thing. If you say anything about one of their horses not being breeding quailty, you will get flamed from here to hell. This is the chat room for the CPEA , Cremello Perlino Education Assoc. They got the rule changed so double dilutes could be registered AQHA, which i think was a great thing, but they dont know quality.
http://members2.boardhost.com/doubledilute/
Does my perception fail me, or is that horse being ridden by a person, WHILE a HOLSTEIN attempts to mount it, AND they thought this was a Kodak Moment, AND they chose said picture to represent them on their home page?
WTF?
ROFL. Calm horse!
What I hate is when people breed a horse just because of it’s papers. You can’t ride papers and if your horse is a confirmational mess, having King on the top and bottom isn’t going to fix anything. A horse with bad confirmation is more likely to pass on their faults than anything else. But you know how that flies if you say anything against the particular breeding….Oh but I want a horse out of my mare, she’s got king on top and bottom, I’ll be keeping the resulting foal for life…you know, the normal excuses. Nice lady though, just wants to breed for the wrong reasons.
And who does not have King, if it’s a QH? That’s what gets me.
People always want to make either-or arguments. “You can’t ride the papers.” No, but you can’t ride a horse with no papers in a great deal of events that horse buyers enjoy participating in. So the ideal is papers (with accomplished horses close-up – King, Poco Bueno, Three Bars, Ferzon and Man O’War do not count) + conformation + good disposition + no genetic defects like HYPP. It really isn’t THAT hard to find breeding stock that have all of those components. These days you can find them very affordably. So why wouldn’t you try to have it all when it is fairly easy TO have it all?
I just don’t get the continual breeding of low-end horses when you can’t make money doing it and that has been proven time and time again.
The 6 year old bay thoroughbred mare is the one that breaks my heart the most. Poor thing.
I just can’t imagine how anyone could take their horse to an auction and actually sell them to a kill buyer. It’s not like they are pretty well-known. Hell, even if I was completely ignorant I’d see so many horses going to the same person and be suspicious enough to no sale. It sounds like all the cremellos and palaminos and such were from the same person? Is that the person you were calling an asshat? Because that’s just horrifying that anyone would off that many horses at once.
I don’t know if they were all from the same person, but I would title anyone who takes their horse to the auction and lets it go for meat to be an asshat. If you are absolutely desperate, i.e. you have NO non-necessary possessions left to sell, and have made a good faith effort to sell the horse, most rescues will help you with the cost of euthanasia. That is always a more humane alternative than slaughter, and I’ve said before – I will never fault anyone for euthing because they’re broke. The economic realities are that we have a surplus of horses and many people have lost their jobs. There is no money to provide homes for all of them – but do the right thing. Don’t send them to a horrible, frightening end.
Off Topic but 20 TBs used for research need homes. See below if you’re interested:
Twenty former research horses are in immediate need of placement. Scarlet is just 10 years old with much of her life yet to live and enjoy. Trudy is missing her right eye, but is one of the sweetest horses you could ever hope to meet. Bailey was a champion jumper before being donated into research. These are just a few of the beautiful Thoroughbreds whose time in research has come to an end. They are in urgent need of new homes or sanctuary. You may see pictures at http://www.kindnessranch.org.
The horses are between the ages of 10 and 19. Many were in the racing industry prior to being donated into research. They have participated in many nutrition and physiology studies, but they are healthy. None have been ridden during their time in research so only advanced riders should consider testing their riding abilities.
If you are interested in adoption or you have a place at your sanctuary, please contact Karen@Kindnessranch.org immediately. We will send you an application. Efforts are being made to raise funds for transport. Please apply regardless of your ability to pay for transport. There is a high probability that we will have a number of horses brought to Wyoming from the East coast, and we will transport the horses to sanctuaries from here.
Here is a prime example of an idiot! Turned out with mares “because he has absolutely no clue as to what is down there”. What teenaged boy doesn’t know what is down there??
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/grd/1621353842.html
See, that goes along with my analogy!
“But my boy would never do that! He doesn’t even think about girls yet! She can’t possibly be pregnant!”
I love horses for the magnificent creatures they are, regardless of color. Shame on everyone who is snarking about horse color. Everyone has their preference but I believe no good horse is a bad color. I agree that breeding specifically for color is a bad idea, but without that, I would not have the wonderful horse I have today- a CREMELLO MORGAN gelding. Born before the color was recognized by the AMHA, he was culled from the herd when they were breeding for palominos. His next home was at a bronc breeder where they cowboyed him, and beat him to try to make him a bronco, sometime during his stay there, he was gored by a bull and long horn scars on each hip to show for it. The man I purchased him from felt sorry for him when he saw him at the bronc dealer and brought him home. He had him gelded and treated him kindly until I purchased him 6 months later as a four year old. He is an outstanding example of the old style morgan horse and VERY competitive, especially in the dressage ring and completely unregisterable! Color should be low on the list when evaluating a horse; confirmation, attitude, and perhaps even pedigree should be looked at well before color. As for his eyes, they are amber, changing from blue when he was younger. Some people are creeped out by them, but I find they are much more expressive and human like than normal brown eyes. My piece said. Please carry on…..
Everybody has their opinions and the right to snark accordingly – it’s not personal, no more than preferring chocolate to vanilla is. I am sure I speak for everyone here when we say we are thrilled that your horse has a great home and someone who loves him!
Thanks, I realize everyone is entitled to their opinions. I believe I am a little touchy about the color issue as I catch A LOT of grief showing a 15 hand cremello morgan in dressage against the 17+ hand brown imported warmbloods. They seem to see him as a cute novelty rather than the hard working horse he is. And I have to say, he eats a lot less and is much more level headed than your average dressage warmblood!
Yeah, the dressage world can be a little funny about “off type” horses but more and more people are becoming successful with them. Do the Morgan shows have dressage so you can compete against other Morgans?
Actually, due to his unwanted nature from the original breeder he was sold without papers so we are unable to compete against registered morgans. There are a couple of open morgan shows in my area, but they are all rail classes and after jumping in an arena and having the whole ring to myself to be artistic, they seem kind of boring. In fact, at a show environment, my horse is a little confused when we got from the schooling ring to the show ring and there are other horses there with him. He kind of sees it as an opportunity to make friends and race. Since rail classes are not our thing, I don’t want to disrupt the exhibitors who are there in earnest. The only registry he is eligible for is International Sport Horses of Color, but I figure, why bother; I’d be competing nationally in dressage against the maybe four other cremellos at my level. I’d rather not go for breed awards and concentrate on qualifying on a local and regional level against all dressage competitors.
Fortunately you don’t need ANY papers for USEF. That’s one great beauty of it!
Do you have a video of this horse in the dressage ring and a name? He sounds like a horse I used to know.
For Mandrin you were looking for video of my cremello gelding in the dressage ring, I do not have any currently. That is him in my avatar pic jumping at a small hunter/jumper show. He originally came from central Ohio and has shown in the Chicagoland area and around Milwaukee, WI. I still own him and will forever. Not sure where you are, but for the past six years he has been in Chicago and Milwaukee. Thanks.
I just saw this. Truly no offense meant about the cremello/perlino thing. I think we all have colors that we love and hate. My mom absolutely loathes buckskins (one of my favorites). According to her black and yellow do not look good together. And, I used to trail ride with a gal in Georgia who hated any horse with spots of any kind. She rode an orange QH with nary a white hair on him. (Which actually was probably very smart on her part due to all the red clay.) I think with color, beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder and it is kind of a good thing that we all like different things; it makes the world a more colorful place.
Anyways, it sounds like your gelding is very talented and very loved which is the most important thing. I know there are nice cremellos/perlinos out there. The color as a whole just suffers from the same thing that all color breeds suffer from, that is people who breed for color only.
I remember about 30 years ago in Maryland there was a leopard Appaloosa doing excellent dressage. But since he was small and spotted, judges looked right through him at the big bays who didn’t perform half as well. Hope your cremello Morgan is at least a little more visible all these years later.
Thankfully, the only thing inhibiting my horse is his rider! Granted, he doesn’t have those huge gaits most warmbloods seem to have, but I CAN ride his trot. He can definitely hold his own against the traditional dressage breeds, mostly because I strive for correct training and accuracy, which is where we make up for less than flamboyant gaits.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/1623165073.html Good, go to college, and let someone else have all the fun of breeding donkey-backed, stick-tailed HYPP fuglies. It says she “could” be used for light riding, but based on the ad, I’m going to say she’s not broke. And you know, 16 is SOOOO old for Quarter Horse… because my mom’s certainly not still riding her 28-year-old, oh, wait, yes, she is. And my 22-year-old carries on like a filly=)
At least they feed this horse…
I have never understood the breeding for color thing, especially in breeds like TWHs where the “point or reason” for the breed is the distinctive gait. The champagne, cremello, perlino fad happened in the late 80s and early 90s in the TYWHs big time. I have no problem with breeding for color in the gaited breeds IF that is secondary to breeding for proper conformation and gait.
But from what I’ve seen with “color fads” once the color is out of favor, some owners will act just like people who trade in their cars very couple of years to have the latest model– they will sell what they have even sending it to auction, so they can make room for a horse of the “color du jour.” –Ugh.
As for having untrained broodmares or stallions, that just doesn’t make any sense to me. Back when I was a breeder along with my late husband, we didn’t have anything on our place that wasn’t trained. All our broodmares could be ridden, and all but one stallion– he was trained, but but was lamed in an accident before we owned him — nothing heritable. All of our foals were halter trained, and trained to allow handling as needed– who wants to buy a wild weanling?
Now, we were not a big operation– 25 (two of which were geldings, three of which were stallions) horses including those currently showing. We only produced five foals a year–if everything went right. That meant that every mare was not bred every year. We didn’t think it was good for them to be bred without a rest. But then, the TWHs were not our only source of income, nor the main one.
If I were still breeding, in this economy, I would not have bred anything in 2007, 2008, or 2009 unless it was a “replacement” that I planned to keep. And I would not be breeding anything at all this year.
But my focus has changed dramatically in the 20 years since my husband’s death. Ten years ago, I bought my first horse needing rescue – a small unregistered but purebred TWH who was in an abusive and miserable situation–and just one week away from going to a “meat auction” — those sales by auction houses that usually sell cattle, but instead sell pigs, goats and horses one Saturday out of the month.
He has been one of the best go anywhere, do anything, never get sick horses I’ve ever had. But as a short (14.2+h) “green broke” coming three year old, without any papers, he would not have stood a chance of “private party” purchase at auction, just like so many of the horses listed in the auction report posted today. One thing he did do was make me aware of the many, many horses who, through no real fault of their own, end up in the slaughter pipeline. Unfortunately, I cannot save them all, but I have given a good home to quite a few, and I use them to educate others to the peril faced by other horses who need homes. (It always amazes people to find out that “perfectly good” horses are ending up being slaughtered.) They are also impressed by how “good” and “well trained” my formerly “unwanted” or possibly “slaughter bound” horses are.
I think education in the key to getting people to realize that every mare does not to be bred and every stallion does not have to become a stud– most make better geldings. Blogs like this one and the various horse rescues are changing minds and attitudes, unfortunately this just takes time — something that we don’t have very much of these days.
“All of our foals were halter trained, and trained to allow handling as needed– who wants to buy a wild weanling?”
No one except the kill buyer. I wish people would JUST UNDERSTAND THIS.
They endlessly post ads that say things like “will be easy to halter break.” If it’s gonna be so damn easy, why haven’t YOU done it?
Throwing wild weanlings out the door is one of the most wasteful, unnecessarily cruel, disgusting practices I have to watch in the horse world…and it happens in EVERY breed.
I’m going to post the auction report at the barn where I board. The owners just bought (at auction for $1,400) a coming 2 yo dun colt and are talking about breeding him. Why? Because he’s dun. Not because he’s done anything spectacular or worthy of passing on his average genes. Apparently people here in Central Cal haven’t gotten the message yet.
My paint mare was going to be bought to be used as a broodmare if i wasn’t going to buy her, probably by some byb considering thats who i bought her off of. She’s not even colored, she’s solid brown (black with brown points). She is pretty though and registered, but she was a skinny 2 year old when I bought her. yes an unbroke 2 year old going to be bought as a broodmare. Now she’s turning 9 this year, she’s a sucessful barrel/pole horse and even jumps with me. She’s my forever horse who i do plan to breed one day and to keep the foal, but only one foal. But now my mare has a successful career and home instead of winding up as some unbroke nag. plus if the worse happens I can sell her for a good amount of money to a good home
I’m going to clarify.
I am not against differential licensing (charging higher license fees for intact animals or only charging them for intact animals).
I am not against requiring a hobby breeder to get a reasonably priced license…I do think that the prices have to be fair. The average show dog or show cat breeder does not make that much. I’d rather see a per head or per litter license than a per establishment one…a per litter license would do a lot to slow down the puppy millers.
What I am against are laws that require registration of breeding animals with specific societies the state approves. This is particularly an issue with cats where there are two major registration organizations and some MSN laws have been proposed which only ‘approve’ one of them.
I am against the *state* imposing performance requirements on breeding stock in any breed. Laws have been proposed that would require dogs to be shown at and win in puppy shows to breed. (How would you feel if the state forced you to geld any colt not successful in the 2 year old futurities?). Besides, you can no more assess the true potential of a six month old dog than you can of a yearling horse. I believe that any requirements on breeding stock should be imposed by genuine experts…not politicians. Besides…if, say, X show wins are required to keep a cat entire and you piss off one of the major judges…
Am I clearer now?
News from the BC Horse Council: As of Jan. 31, 2010, The Canada Food Inspection Agency (similar to your USDA) requires horse owners who intend their animals to “enter the food chain,” to provide 6 months of records re: vaccinations/medications/illnesses. My interpretation is that the kill buyers and slaughterhouses must have the written records available.
What do you think? Will this create any improvement in the situation?
http://forums.hcbc.ca/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10793
Sorry, that’s JULY 31st, 2010. Guess it was my wishful thinking that horses be spared slaughter for at least 6 months.