Someone call the Weekly World News!
Feb 14 2010
We have YET ANOTHER horse resurrection. Â ;)
You may recall the story of Voodoo, the Pinto mustang stallion rescued from Three Strikes Ranch. Â Jason Meduna, ever the drama queen, went scampering off to the Internet…
(I have to interrupt my own blog for a side note: Â How is it that ALL of these asshats who don’t feed or care for their horses have Internet? Â Even in the wilds of Nebraska, they are ALWAYS online. Â Here’s an idea, cancel the Internet and buy five bales of hay. Â That will also help you avoid making an complete and total ass of yourself online making ridiculous statements when the truth is, you should admit you were wrong and quietly drop out of sight and wait for your trial.)
… and told everybody we had “run Voodoo to death” on his property.
Voodoo, of course, was very much alive and happily eating grain out of everybody’s hands. Admittedly, he was a complete skeleton thanks to Jason, but he did not appear to be in any danger of leaving the planet anytime soon. He was obviously perking up every day I was there with him!
He did fall down at one point because he was so weak (again, Jason’s fault) but you can fall down without dying. Â Ask anyone in college about the likelihood of this on a typical Saturday night. Â ;)
Well, a few weeks ago I heard that the rumor mill had, once again, spun out of control and pronounced Voodoo dead and Habitat For Horses/Jerry Finch merely another internet con artist who simply wanted the high-profile horse for P.R. and then proceeded put him to sleep.  So, for those of you not smart enough to recognize immediately that no such thing took place (and of course for all those of you who will just think it’s super freakin’ cool to see the “after” pic!) here is a pic taken today.
Yep, still not dead. Â 
And carrying about 300 more pounds than the last time we saw him! Â Jerry says he’s just going to stay a pet and a permanent resident at Habitat for Horses – something I’m sure Voodoo is very happy about!
You may also recall the tale of Lexi, the sweet bay mare who was supposed to be 36 years old. Â Well, Lexi had a surprise for everybody. I will let her new mom, Rebecca, tell the tale. Â That’s the baby at left.
“Lexi is home. She has a place with me for the rest of her life. She is doing really well – better than I ever expected. I remember reading about her of the FOB and waiting and watching to see if anyone raised their hand for her. I love mature horses so when it came time to move the mares to Wyoming I told Jerry if she could make her way a little closer to me I would pick her up. He found a way to get her to the Tyler area and I picked up Lexi and five companions and brought them to my place and the ranch.
I had seen a picture of Lexi and knew she was skinny but I had rehabbed mature skinnies before so I was confident I could help her. What I didn’t know was there was a possibility that she was pregnant. Seriously, how could that be? I was told she was 36 years old – would that even be possible? How would her body handle that? I got her to the vet two days after she arrived and the vet confirmed she was between 7-9 months – which was a good guess because it turned out she was 8 months. I was warned that terminating the pregnancy was not an option (I was horrified at the suggestion) and told that she would probably do ok but that there was a good chance that the baby would not survive as Lexi had been deprived of basic nutrition during the early stages of her pregnancy.
As Lexi’s time grew closer I was terrified that she would go into labor while I slept and I wouldn’t know that she needed help. I was getting up 3 times a night to check on her … On Saturday morning, August 8, 2009 I checked on her about 1:15 am and the tiniest, leggiest foal came tripping out of the run-in behind Lexi. I hung around just long enough to make sure they both were ok and left them because Lexi was noticeably nervous. I went out a little while later and introduced myself to what I found to be a perfect little filly. I have spent a lot of time with her since – she’s a fun-loving, smart, knows what she likes and what she doesn’t, little girl. She’s a talker like her mom. It took me a while to find a name for her but I knew it was perfect when I found it – Audi – it’s African for Last Daughter. Lexi won’t ever have to go through this again. She is an awesome mom – I love to hear them talk to each other – and takes excellent care of Audi who just turned six months old. I am happy Lexi came into my life and ultimately excited to have Audi with me. A lot of worry went along with waiting for her arrival but it was worth it – she and her mom are both worth it.”
Mom and baby are also alive   Here is another great blog entry about them!
Now, remember my little favorite, Piglet? Â Piglet’s thread is still going strong on the Nebraska200 Message Board and you can see she has lived up to her name. Â You can see before and after pics of her at this link…truly amazing. Â Her adopter has done a fabulous job with her. Â Their vet thought she was pregnant when rescued but at this point I don’t really think she’s got anything in there but hay. Â At any rate, she is fat and happy and having a ball playing with the other horses and enjoying her new life. Â This is a huge success story, as she was so weak at Three Strikes that she fell several times, and had to be physically lifted into a small trailer by herself in order to be removed from the property. Â She was as near death as I have seen a horse be and still come back, and it has been really special to read that thread and watch her progress.
Another happy ending from Three Strikes, for Ziggy. Â Here is his mom’s blog.
Here are updates from Freedom Hill Horse Rescue, which took two mares – they’re now in training, hooray!
Finally, here’s a happy recent update on Chloe, the palomino paint mare who was injured and had to be immediately transported to CSU to save her life (big thanks to Margaret DeSarno, who hauled her up there despite having to climb over someone’s whopper ego to do it, and to her adopter Sue who paid the whopper bill!). Â Chloe was, of course, pregnant so not only was she three legged lame, she was about to pop out a baby. Amazingly, both survived and here is some video of her. Â Check out the before and after videos. See, folks, this is why sometimes it’s worth it to go straight to the top of the line vet care. Â Makes a difference!
I know I talk a lot about the bad rescues but let’s not lose sight of the fact that there are many quality rescues that can and do help horses in need and many great adopters who put time, money and love into horses whether or not those horses are ever going to be ridden. Â I have another big expose story coming (not a rescue, just another repeat offender BYB) but I wanted to give you all a happy thread to enjoy this Monday. Kudos to those who made this happy thread possible, and if you have an update on another Three Strikes horse, please post it to the comments. Â As always, if you have a picture, post the DIRECT link…NO CODE…and I will make it show up when I approve comments. Â Code simply creates more work for me. Â It will only let me, not you guys, use the img src tag…I don’t know why.
P.S. Â Hercules is jealous. Â He only came back from the dead once. Â Check Facebook under “Hercules the Horse” to see updates with new pictures of Herc enjoying his Valentine’s cookies!
187 comments to “Someone call the Weekly World News!”
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Speaking of hay bellies, Voodoo looks like HE’S ready to pop!
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=15377255
Why is this rescue breeding horses then ‘adopting’ them out for $1800?
Ugh, 5 weanlings by their stud and they call themselves a rescue.
http://www.passionhorse.com/Weanlings.html
Nowhere on her website did I see that she has a stud or that she breeds these babies herself. She claims to rescue PMU babies and find homes for them.
“Remy’s sire, Birch, has always thrown the most amazing babies… great minds, sane, smart, and quiet. We’ve had several of his foals over the years, and there hasn’t been a bad one yet!!”
There is no mention of the sire on her website, but that quote sure makes it sound like they’re purposely breeding them.
A lot of the PMU-specific rescue places that I’ve known take foals in from a dedicated PMU farm; that is, they work with one farm almost like a distributor. So, they could very well know the studs in use at that PMU farm very well, and what their babies are commonly like. IMO, this is beneficial to the foals (not that I agree with the PMU business in general), as the people finding homes for them have a better idea of what they could be capable of, and thus be better able to “sell” them to prospective “adopters,” along with building up a reputation for truthfully representing the horses – which, in the end, would help more foals or used-up broodmares find homes.
Read the “About Us”. She rescues PMU, and sells other horses on the side to help fund the rescue. Apparently, from the quote posted below, she does breed those.
And some of her permanent horses appear to be former rescues, so who knows?
I couldn’t find anything either that suggests they are purposely breeding the foals. Could have missed something.
I do like happy endings. We need more of them.
Wow, Chloe looks great! And to see the first video of her barely able to stand and then to see her running around- just wow! Kudos to all who made a difference to all these horses. What a great way to start the day, thank you!
Wow, they all look great! I`m a sucker for happy endings, and it made my day to see how well these guys are doing.
RECUE WIN! in this case.
Thank you for something happy today. I needed it.
It is amazing what horses can come back from.
It is too bad that there are those sad folks who feel the need to slam the good rescues and put out lies about them. The current photos of Voodoo at least put an end to those particular lies.
To all who labored so hard and with such dedication to bring back these horses, bless you.
sagebeasties.blogspot.com
This is OT….
Over the past 20 years, I’ve gone to more horse auctions than I could even begin to count. Yesterday, my husband suggested that since we had not been to one in a couple of years, how about doing that on a rainy old Sunday? So we fed horses, and hopped in the *car*, because we most assuredly were NOT going to buy anything and didn’t need to take the trailer.
I’ve never been more adamant that I wasn’t buying a horse than yesterday. I have plenty. I even have a few for sale that I’d love to see find new homes. The last thing I wanted was a new horse.
Having not been to the auction in quite some time (I went and bought a couple of saddles last spring, but that’s it for about 2 years) it was interesting to see which of the cast of characters was still there and who wasn’t. The old kill buyers that we’ve known for many years seem to be long gone, and are replaced by a different one I know nothing about.
We were really disappointed in the quality and turnout of the horses there. The quality issue does happen sometimes in the winter, but that was by far the least amount of horses there I’ve ever seen there. There were about 25 in all, and they were almost ALL thin. I could count on one hand the number of horses that had been receiving adequate food. It was horrible.
I’m one of those people who has a keen understanding and firm grasp on the fact that you cannot save them all. I’ve rescued many horses and ponies over the years, but right now all the stalls in my barn are occupied and I most certainly was NOT intending to buy anything. We came in the CAR for Pete’s sake!!!
Welllllll…. my steely resolve turned to Jello when a sad older Arabian mare walked into the ring toting a badly riding child who pulled on her face and kicked her all at the same time. You could see what a kind old thing she was, and this kid hand been hanging on the mare, using her as a couch and riding her around the entire time we’d been at the sale.
They worked to get $10 for her, and I kicked my husband and I told him he had to bid. He turned and looked at me like I had sprouted 20 heads. He bid once for $20 and everyone looked at us. And then I humilated myself and I cried. I NEVER do things like that — like crying in front of all the cowboys at the auction. That was a bit humiliating, but all I could think of was that that little mare did not deserve to take the double decker ride to be killed. She deserved better than that.
And so….. my husband left bright and early this morning to go pick up my $20 Arabian. I’m working on rehoming her, because, as I mentioned previously, my stalls are occupied and I’d really rather not have to throw anyone out. But this sweet old thing will either be rehomed (I have a couple of good possibilities for her), or she will be put to sleep peacefully and be buried in my pasture. But at least she will not have the long, torturous double decker ride to kill.
See, you were just supposed to be there. It is your husband’s fault for suggesting it.
Any clues on who she is? E-mail me if you got the seller’s name, we can run it on Datasource and try to figure it out!
I have her papers…. well, they are in the truck with DH…. But she is Easter Velvet, a 1985 model. If there’s any other info available, I’d be very greatful!!
GREAT – I know people here have datasource, we should have some answers for you quickly. How cool that you got the papers!
Here is a link to her grandsire:
http://bit.ly/d1XZ8M
Thank you! Man, he was gorgeous!
She just arrived home, and she is very sweet. My very excited 13 year old daughter rode her around with a halter and leadrope, and she was just as good as I would have expected — but it was a brief ride, as she has “a bad wheel” as one of my cowboy friends used to say. Big knee on the left, and something about it is less than fully operational/it bends awkwardly in a somewhat wrong direction. This is what happens when you buy something spur of the moment without really giving it a good lookover!
I’m not sure yet whether the kindest thing might be to euthanize her, or if she might be of value to someone as a pasture puff. She’s very well mannered and very sweet — we’ll see….. At any rate, she didn’t go to the meat man. We’ll see where it all goes from here. She’s happily and peacefully munching hay right now.
Well, let’s see about her history first. As I just posted, Szizzle, who also has a big knee, is rehabbed and home safe with her RESPONSIBLE breeder, Gretchen Halvorson.
I will have pics soon. Sometimes these old Arab mares have someone who loves them – you just have to find them!
A great resource for Arabian horse pix:
http://public.fotki.com/hypoint/arabians/
Gretchen, thank you for having such a big heart! And thank your hubby for understanding
Gretchen, I’m so so SO glad that you bought the Arab mare! You won’t miss that $20 from your pocket, but it will make a WORLD of difference to her. Where was this auction?
The auction was the monthly horse sale at the Eugene Livestock Auction.
For those who are curious, she is by the stallion HA Sensation, who is by HA Bask (*Bask++ x Calina, by Natez) and out of Deja Vou (NA Ibn Fadjur x Valteza, by Nafatez); and out of the mare B-Replique, who is by Bonique (Zarabo++ x Renika, by Nikitez) and out of Nippytez (*Witez II x Snippie Tez, by Yatez).
I see at least SIX crosses to *Witez II in her pedigree! What a find- horses like that are getting rarer all the time and are known for making excellent endurance horses and cutting horses (obviously probably not in her future, at her age, but that is the athleticism you’re dealing with here!)
Unless she has some major issues, please don’t write her off as “old” yet, Arabians are very long-lived and seem to stay active forEVER!
This guy is fortyish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOKXrNVVirY
I had the ultimate pleasure of knowing, working with, and riding Zarabo+++. He was an impeccable example of what an Arabian stallion can/should be. He was retired from breeding at the tender age of 28, lived to be 32. You’ve got a real gem of an Aye-rab mare. Congratulations!
Surely you can handle taking care of her needs so you won’t have to put her down…you rescued her from a horrible death, and hopefully any death. You can put up a cheap “portable” pipe stall to add more room.
Well, putting them down is ALWAYS preferable to slaughter and I will do nothing BUT commend people who do that (at a cost of $400 or $500) rather than shrug their shoulders and let the horse go to kill.
But hey, we can do some research – she may have someone who cares about her. And I have some 4h contacts in Oregon. Sounds like a great babysitter type mare!
Go to del mar all breed pedigree( free) and type in her name it comes up with alot of her info. She has alot of Polish breeding but not alot of info on dams side.
Gretchen, I’ve got Datasource access, which gives me all kinds of information, including her breeder and her registered owners. If you send me an email at oberonsshadow @ gmail . com, I’d be happy to give you their information (I don’t like posting names and addresses online…) . Hopefully someone misses this old lady.
As far as other info, She was never shown in AHA classes, but she does have 3 registered half arab foals. All by the same TB stallion, TRIPLE LEVEL.
Thank you so much to those of you who have provided the Datasource information on this sweet mare. What a terrific resourse the Arabian folks provide!
Today we learned that she is indeed as kid broke as I thought she was, but the knee issue is…. a big one. She’s a good 90% sound on it at the walk (and she was never asked to do anything other than walk), BUT, it doesn’t bend anymore than she would bend it to take a walking step.
Thank you to a lovely blog reader who provided me with the names and addresses of her previous owners. I have contacted her last registered owner who had her from 1997 to 2004. A very nice woman who told me all about her.
She was a 4-H horse for her son who showed her, did gaming and took her to many clinics also. She reported that (as I could see) she is wonderful with little kids and takes wonderful care with them. You can just see that she is one of those who is so careful with her rider.
The owner previous to these folks had her only around a year and rode her dressage.
She did not know anything about the knee injury, so we surmise that that occurred in the most recent home.
Former owner was crushed to hear what had happened to their wonderful old horse, and really wished she could take her for retirement, but lives in town now with no horses.
The old gal is just as sweet and can be and seems so incredibly grateful for the food and attention she is getting. I feel so, so bad for this poor old thing.
Wonderful stories! With all the crap out there about bad rescues and BYBers it’s nice to stories like those. It’s a shame the horses needed rescuing in the first place but great to see those people who stepped up with their time and money to turn them into the fat, happy horses they are now. There is a special place in hell for the abusers, just like there is a special place in heaven for the people that save them.
On a sad note we lost one of our old-timers last night, a 39 year-old paint with cushing’s diease. He came to us 8 years ago after his owner was diagnosed with cancer and couldn’t care for him anymore, and became “everyone’s horse”, our little barn mascott. He went down in his stall and couldn’t get up, he gave up and was ready to go. R.I.P. Boscoe.
Awww. Must have been their time – just heard this AM that 39 year old Elmer Bandit, the endurance horse, also had to be pts last night. RIP Elmer and Boscoe!
We could tell he was ready to go, and at least he had a good life. Instead of renting the the stall, BO is kicking around the idea of taking in another needy horse. She figures what the hell, I haven’t made any money off that stall in the last 8 years, why start now! So it’ll be off to Sugar Creek for us (are they still having horse auctions there, haven’t heard anything about them in a while?). At least some horse is going to have a lucky day, our BO truly believes in keeping them for life! Everyone that knows her says 40 years in horses and you can’t find one person that has ever bought a horse from her. She is my idol in the horse world.
This news is sad but I am glad these guys had quality time (Elmer had a lot of that)!. Sugarcreek auction and the principals, Leroy Baker and Fred Bauer are alive and well. It is still a hellish place-I have the proof of that! I am not so far from there. If you can take one from there, God Bless you.
Good to know, we will be heading there to fill Boscoe’s stall with a horse that needs a chance. I know what a shithole that place is. Back when I was younger and dumber a guy paid me to haul a Standardbred up there and run her through. I saw what was going on, loaded that poor horse back up and took her home, crying the whole way. I lied to the guy and told him she sold for $100, then kept her until I could find her a home. That was my first auction experience, and it was horrid.
Thank you so much for all the updates, hope you can do that periodically, usually it is like they fall into a hole after they’ve been rescued.
I was also starting to wonder about VooDoo, glad they would at least send you a picture and update to share. periodically I’d go and check the HPH website , looking for him.
Yes, and I HATE fall-in-a-hole syndrome. When people are emotionally and/or financially invested in a rescue horse, they SHOULD get to see how it turns out, for better or for worse.
I have a Lucy update on the VLC blog, for those who remember her when she was pulled from the July 2008 Enumclaw auction. I got a great new video of her trotting under saddle, too. I finally found the magic trainer for her.
I know what you mean about rescuing the $20 Arabian. I went to our local sale. There was an unusually higher number of horses. This sale usually attracts the lower end BYB type grade horses. In walked a beautiful, but older, bay Arabian mare. She had to be a registered purebred, but there was no mention of any papers with her. She was like a pearl amid swine. I think she sold for $10. I wanted to save her, but I can not responsiibly afford any more horses and I know that it would have been a strain and hubby would have had a fit. I had no ideas for anyone for a rehome, so I let her go to whomever bought her. I don’t know if it was KB or private party. It is a sickening feeling to just let them go out the door to whatever their fate will be. Then, in comes fugly and grade weanlings and sucklings, $10 each, with a whole host of expensive medical concerns (hernia, slipper feet, etc.). Those too should have been saved, but the cost would have been alot, only to hope to give them away, if anyone would take them. People who claim they are horse lovers just need to STOP doing this to their horses. Don’t breed them, Feed them, take care of them. It should be a no-brainer – but a point so many are missing and your horses are paying the price with their lives. Next sale is this weekend. It won’t be long until we will start seeing the babies going thru the ring in hopes a cute face will make them more marketable.
So true, and so sad. And most of the time they are bred in the backyard of a financially unstable person who can’t grasp that they are losing money as they fill the kill pen. Even if they spend $0 on the care of the mare and foal, it costs them more money to haul that $10 foal to the auction than they will get in the sale. And they always have a pack of kids running around with them-more times than not the next generation of backyard breeders!
I know. It is so painful.
There was a gelding that was so, so thin — ridden in by some stupid man who obviously knew NOTHING about horses. He was perfectly mannered, appeared to be well trained, but with a BCS of maybe 2. They could not get a bid on him, and they offered him for free. Someone finally took him — it looked like a nice family. I hope so. I hope he had the chance to be rehabbed. They said he was only 10.
I hate that we cannot save them all. But we cannot. We can do our best for the ones we own, and when in a position to help one, do so, but there are so many more that we can do nothing about. I just hate that though.
Sometimes I think we should hand out flyers at those sales about how to safely rehab a severely thin horse. Wouldn’t that be a good idea?
I could write up a one-pager…actually there’s something on the HR site main page that would probably do it.
Write it up! I’d be happy to put it out for people to take at the Eugene horse auction.
And this would be why I avoid auctions whenever possible. I’ve never even gone to one of those “every other Friday night” auctions that are in every other town here in Georgia. I won’t go because I know that I’ll be dragging home pity case after pity case and I just don’t have the room or means to keep any more than I have.
I really HATE it when horses at auction who may be facing the slaughterhouse are referred to in a derogatory way, such as “FUGLY” or “LOW GRADE” or whatever. I can understand the use of the term “fugly” when talking about showing prospects or breeding prospects outside of the auction yard (even then it bothers me), but not when it comes to horses facing torture and death, because every horse in that situation no matter how they look or what condition they are in (ALL horses have a place) deserve to be rescued whether for continued life or for kind euthanasia (if they are too far gone). Obviously, horses needing rescue are usually not looking their best anyway, but can many times be turned back into the healthy specimens they once were (notice I did not say beautiful specimens, because ALL horses have a place). Naturally, there aren’t enough people or dollars available to rescue all of them, so people pick out the best condition ones amongst the condemned, figuring they can save more “horse-years-of-life” that way, or because they just want something good to ride at a cheap price (which is also fine). Perhaps more people who are there to pick out a nice “keeper” should be required to also buy 2 or 3 more from the kill buyer before OR after he has bought them, to simply just rescue those poor sweet animals from a tortuous death, and then kindly euthanize them, those people are the purest form of rescuer (as opposed to thinking about the whats-in-it-for-me aspect, which is also fine, but not pure), but I digress in my rant about using the nasty word “fugly” to describe desperate horses in need of rescue. I know that “Fugs” named her blog “Fugly Horse” with respect to showing and breeding, NOT in contempt of raggedy horses facing slaughter, so let’s remember that folks.
True but it doesn’t really bother me as a term. I mean, honestly, the NICEST horses usually look pretty fugly when they are rescued from the auction! I think most people here realize that a good horseperson can see a diamond in the rough. Szizzle was a good example and that’s an upcoming blog – going to have pics of her rehabbed, GORGEOUS self. BTW that is a super happy ending of a responsible breeder who STEPPED UP and is giving her an idyllic retirement!
Remember, the horses don’t read the internet and they don’t care what we say about them.
Everybody talks shit about my horse but I don’t care because I’m fairly sure he doesn’t have wifi in his stall. 
I am referring to people’s attitudes, motivations, and actions, concerning horses facing slaughter. I was pretty clear about that. I don’t give a rats ass about what people say about other people’s backyard pets who are all safe and comfy.
An ugly or fugly horse is still f/ugly if it’s at an auction or not. Lots of people love their f/ugly horses, and it’s not a put down at all. A grade horse will never be a show horse, and there is no crime or disrespect involved by calling them what they are. I’m average looking. If I was a horse I’d be pretty f/ugly. I know that, and would never be offended if someone said that. Hell, people have before. I’m brown haired, brown eyed, average height, and not really memorable. I still found someone to love me just like many fugly horses do. It would be laughable at best for someone to claim I could be a model.
If people had to buy 3 horses minimum by your rules, not many horses will be saved. Horses are not like chihuahuas were you can feed a pack of them with a big bag of feed for a couple of months. Horses are expensive. Rehabbing them is even more expensive. A rescue is a business that survives off of donations that can be very scarce. They can’t afford to spend the money rehabbing a horse, then pay for a euthanasia. While everyone wishes we could save them all, it simply isn’t possible. If you really want more horses to be saved, donate money, equipment, and time. Get friends and family to do the same. I think you are doing a far greater disservice by calling the horse rescues )like the good one featured in this post) as not ‘pure’. Their motivations are good, and they are doing the absolute best they can with what they have. If you think buying horses and euthanizing them is the best thing to do, start your own organization and get donations to pay for it. You could probably get a vet in the area to do bulk euthanasias for less. Speak with an accountant or tax attorney to see if the vet could write off donations.
“A grade horse will never be a show horse, and there is no crime or disrespect involved by calling them what they are. I’m average looking. If I was a horse I’d be pretty f/ugly. I know that, and would never be offended if someone said that. Hell, people have before. I’m brown haired, brown eyed, average height, and not really memorable. I still found someone to love me just like many fugly horses do. It would be laughable at best for someone to claim I could be a model.”
Exactly! I have used the same analogy many times with regard to myself. If someone calls me average looking, well, that’s accurate because I’m average looking. Angelina Jolie has nothing to worry about, LOL. I don’t know why the truth is taken as an insult. Of course, I also don’t know why the truth, when it’s positive. is seen as bragging. If I say I’m average looking, people will rush to assure me I’m not and worry about my self-esteem. If I say I’m intelligent, people will be horrified and think I have an ego the size of New York. We live in a weird world.
Cheri, your idealism and compassion is all very well, but it’s a waste of time. “Political correctness” never saved a single life.
Ruthie
Cheri wrote: Perhaps more people who are there to pick out a nice “keeper†should be required to also buy 2 or 3 more from the kill buyer before OR after he has bought them
Your intentions are good, Cheri, but think of the consequences. This sounds to me like a rule to keep KBs solvent. I know everyone is hurting right now but I’d rather focus funds for stimulus on professions that are of more benefit to society. Leave the KBs to fend for themselves; most of them are clearly well able to do so.
That’s exactly it, but unfortunately there are people you can’t get through to. There’s some moron on ABR right now who is getting them to buy him hay but he REFUSES to stop breeding! And they are DOING IT! He seems to be getting a “but my horses are nice” exemption. Um, I don’t give a crap if they’re all world champions, YOU DON’T HAVE HAY MONEY. YOU ARE BEGGING ONLINE. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS MAKING MORE, PERIOD.
I think I saw him on there a couple weeks ago. Is that the guy who admitted he was offered free hay if he agreed not to breed this year, but he turned it down and went on ABF to beg instead? And when a vet posted a comment making the arguement that there was no market for the foals he was breeding (VERY politely, I might ad) people jumped to his defense citing his right to breed and earn a living (ha, like there is any money in grade horses right now)?
I thought about posting to stick up for the vet, but alas, I realize it would take me all of 5 minutes to get banned from ABF with my temper. I just don’t have their sunshine-and-butterflies everyone has a right to breed whatever they want and we can save them all attitude. And this time next year his foals will be filling a double-decker.
Yep that’s the dude! Krazy Kolor breeder of course. Posted pics of his stallion – professional ones. I want to see what the stallion looks like RIGHT NOW.
African is not a language
. OMG so cute though.
this!
and yeah, she’s a serious cutie.
Thanks so much for featuring this post! I’m one of the many people who checks the Nebraska 200 board every day looking for updates on the horses, and I’m glad to see that so many of them are looking fat and happy.
Oh, I just followed all the links and got the the original post on Jason Meduna, the shirtless Mustang trainer. That goober looks like he was trying to pose for the cover of a Harlequin romance novel.
I’m sure he’ll be VERY popular with the boys in prison!
Yup. I hope his cellmate is named Bareback Bubba and teaches him a whole new meaning to the phrase Ridem’ Cowboy!
SNORT yeah buddy! There’s a special place for Mudna, just as there is a special place for those who stepped up for these mustangs.
I love Audi, she looks like she’s a real spark plug!
VOODOO is looking good! WOW
If you are talking about the first day ..
He didn’t even really fall down, the cowgirl was bringing was bringing him in, Voodoo got his leg caught in Jason’s crappy fence and got tangled and tripped .
I saw it happen, I didn’t think he would go near the fence either but since they were all able to jump in and out in lots of spots he probably thought he coudl just hop over that part too or maybe he just got too close to it. Not anybody’s fault that it happened unless you count the person that didn’t tighten the fences.
So glad to see Voodoo doing great he was my favorite.
I know. That was all SO blown out of proportion online. HE WAS FINE. The only thing that nearly killed him is Jason not feeding him!
It’s always nice to talk about this stuff with those of us who were there and KNOW the truth, as opposed to the collection of idiotic middle-aged women who have decided to believe poor Jason and his tale of woe. *eye rolling*
It’s nice to have some good news for once!
Voodoo looks great for having been killed so many times! Maybe we should rename him Jesus?
ROTFL no kidding. Seriously, the amount of miracles lately is astounding!
So this is off topic but I know your readers can help me. I am a frustrated horse lover, as I was never given the pony and riding lessons I wanted as a child. Suddenly I realized that I am an adult now and I can pay for my own riding lessons and eventual horse. I have been re-inspired by all things horsie by this blog and I would like to know about other websites people recommend for general (or specific) horse info. Books, of course, too. I am a voracious reader and any good books that anyone can recommend would be fantastic. I enjoy the blog very much but much of the vocabulary of the horse world is a mystery to me, and the topics discussed just leave me wanting to learn more.
Thanks for anyone’s help!
Hey Animalia,
First, figure out which equestrian discipline you want to pursue. Dressage, jumping, saddleseat, western pleasure, trail riding…. and then start looking for books/magazines/websites. A great general interest mag. is Horse Illustrated – so is Equus. Look for good instructors in your area. Ask around at local tack stores. Ask around in venues like this – there are folks from all over the WORLD on here, and we’re all obviously concerned with quality horsecare & training!!
Take lessons for a couple of years before you buy a horse. Use your common sense & make sure your instructor isn’t playing head games with you. Heck, you can always find a new instructor if you’re not 100% happy with the one you’ve got. People somehow think that they’re MARRIED to these people and make all kinds of excuses for why they stay with ‘em. For that matter, realize that learning to ride is superduper involved, and takes a lot of work and probably getting yelled at in fine drill instructor fashion. (I know one woman who makes her students post without stirrups, and then she asks them “DO YOU LOVE IT????” and if their YESSSSS isn’t enthusiastic enough, they have to go 10 more rounds.
I approve.)
Sadly, in this country, we don’t have a great national organization of approved instructors/trainers.
Good luck! So awesome to be a grown-up…..
My favorite beginner book for hunt seat equitation is still Happy Horsemanship. Even though it’s geared toward kids, it’s really useful for beginner adults, too.
“Centered Riding.” Best riding book EVAR.
I love this site:
http://horsemanship101.com/Articles/
I would highly recommend checking out horse clubs in your area & volunteer to work at their shows & events, taking riding lessons (+ watching others ride during lessons, if possible), attending ANY riding/training clinics (good & bad- expose yourself to both, find out what you like/ don’t like); these are my suggestions for learning as much as you can about horses in as short amount of time as possible!
I would also go to local stables and see if they need someone to groom, muck stalls, polish tack, etc. Volunteer a couple of days a week and be sure to let the owners know you’re a newbie so they don’t have you cleaning stalls where the horses don’t appreciate strangers. ;o) You’ll get your horse fix and maybe they’ll trade the groom, muck, polish chores for some riding lessons.
All the above suggestions are good. A Horse of Your Own by M. A. Stoneridge is an excellent “general all-around book” that has been updated many times. I bought that back in the early 70s when I got my first horse, and while I knew wanted to ride English, there was a lot of good information (and a great glossary ;o) so I learned the horse terms and got some “vicarious” horse experience at the same time.
Most horse people (not all, but most ;o) don’t mind answering questions and sharing their knowledge. I envy you, Animalia, at the start of your journey ;o)
Oops, I meant to post this site, but the other one is good too! : )
http://www.horsekeeping.com/
My best suggestion for now, since you are just now getting into it, is to focus your research on the different riding disciplines and choose one that you feel the most passionate about (this is fun and easy research because it can involve a lot of pictures and videos to get the idea of what those disciplines are all about). Then, once you’ve chosen a discipline, find a good training barn in your area that teaches that discipline, and go ahead and start taking lessons. You will learn so much faster doing it hands-on then you will from reading books if you are still having trouble with the terminology. Horse people tend to speak in their own “equestrian” language and you will pick up on those terms if you’re out there taking lessons, hanging out at the barn, watching other people’s lessons, going to watch shows and hearing the conversations of the other people there, etc. The more you start to learn, then you’ll be able to start doing some reading and actually know what you’re reading. The only other thing is that you will need to ask your instructor what supplies you need to start lessons. They might require you to purchase your own helmet, breeches if you’re going english, boots of some sort, etc. If you have trouble locating an instructor, you might want to check with any local horse clubs directed toward the discipline of your choice. Most states or big cities will have associations, and you could contact them to get a list of reputable trainers. That might help so you don’t get scammed by one of those “I can train ANY horse ANY discipline and I do it better than ANYONE as long as you don’t actually know what to look for in a trainer, yee-HAW!” weirdos. And if you do a few lessons and you start noticing the horses all look angry and the instructor is grouchy, then trust your gut and try out another place. It really is a “learn as you go” sport, so I recommend that you dive right into some lessons!
Thanks for all the replies, folks. I knew you would come through! I have noticed more than one person say something along the lines of, “I am still new to horses so I have this question” so I am sure you have helped more people than just me.
My problem right now is I am not even sure what discipline appeals to me the most. So yes, some fun research might be in order. The idea of jumping sounds like fun but I may end up being a weenie, so who knows. I live in New Mexico so most people I know of do western style riding but I am sure there are others out there.
I guess I wanted to do a little reading on my own first so I can hopefully know if my instructor is at least somewhat competent. Right now they could spin me a line of bull and I would have no idea.
I am certainly in no hurry to own a horse of my own, the feeding side of horse ownership alone intimidates me. Not to mention veterinary care, training, etc. I know I am too ignorant to do the kind of job I would want to.
So thanks again.
I don’t know exactly where you are, but you might consider doing a bit of volunteer work for a rescue. That would be a good way to learn more and work with a variety of different horses on the ground. I bet it would give you some ideas about what kind of horses you are drawn to and what kind of riding might be appealing.
Here’s one in your state.
http://www.fourcornersequinerescue.org/
http://www.area-x.org/resources
http://www.nmhja.org/trainers.htm
When it comes to instructors, there are those who are obviously bad (with horses that look like the ones on fhotd, teaching little kids with no helmet and tennis shoes, etc), and then there’s everyone else. Each trainer is going to have a few people who think they’re the best thing since sliced bread, and a few people who think their discipline’s reputation is being ruined just by having that trainer associated with it! It’s really a personal matter. There might be things that I look for in a trainer that you wouldn’ like, or things that I’m willing to tolerate that you can’t stand. For example, I’m really anti-gadget, so anytime I see a trainer using draw reins on a horse I automatically write that person off as not the right trainer for me. But, some people LOVE gadgets and training aides for certain circumstances. I also like a humble and honest trainer, so if I ever see someone making a display out of “showing the horse who’s boss” and getting emotional about it, I assume that person is compensating for a lack of knowledge in a very nasty way and do not choose them as a trainer. So until you have enough experience to build an opinion, it’s probably going to be a lot of guess and check. It’s important to find one that shares the same values as you in terms of horse handling (like, they’re nice to the horses and care about how the horse feels), and also that you feel a comfortable communication style with them during the lessons (some of them are so brilliant that they do not know how to talk to beginners anymore). They’re all so different in so many ways and until you get enough experience to decipher all of those things, it’s going to be a “learn as you go” thing. Trust me, you learn just as many lessons of what NOT to do when you accidently pick a bad one, just as long as you use your intuition to get out of there when you realize it.
Be flexible about discipline…you never know *what* you might get hooked on.
(Coming from the DQ…then again, I’m not afraid to get my hands dirty, or hop on anything regardless of what tack it might have on it. One of these days, I really should get it together and take just a few western lessons so I don’t look like one of Fugly’s examples of bad riding in that tack *laugh*)
I did take lessons on and off in my younger days, then took a 20 year hiatus– just started taking lessons again about a year ago, and I heartily agree with the suggestions from the others who replied to your post. You may also find that the type of horse/discipline you *think* you are interested in now will change, or may be dictated in part by (in my case) physical limitations which did not exist when you were younger. If you learn anything from reading this blog, it’s that horse ownership is not a comittment to be made impulsively, so please don’t rush into buying a horse. I have just now started talking to my instructor about a horse to lease, myself.
In the meantime, I’m riding at two English lesson barns, rode western on a trail ride last month, have volunteered at/donated to rescues, fell off a 17.2 h horse in Oct. and got right back on, have been bitten and stepped on, mourned the death of my favorite lesson horse, met some really nice new people, read the D-level Pony Club manual cover to cover, and am currently looking for a place I can try riding a gaited (not sore!) horse. Even with some not so nice experiences mixed in, I am SO happy to have horses in my life again, and I hope you will be, too!
Oh, and when taking lessons, even if you are new to horses and the owners/instructors/etc. seem to be experts, TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!
The first place I took lessons put me on a horse I was nervous about, and it bucked me off, which really set me back and I am still not over it a year later. The next horse was even worse. It never really did anything major, but that horse would have killed me had I kept riding it, of this I have no doubt. The 3rd horse they tried was fine and I was able to get enough confidence back to continue my lessons. It sounds dumb, but you definitely get a vibe from a horse! At this barn, the first two horses had to be chased down (one day we never did catch the one we were after), but they did not seem to think this was a problem! The 3rd came right over to us.
I ended up buying my own because I did not want to keep riding lesson horses. My friend rode him first, and despite the fact that I was bordering on a panic attack when I got on him, I knew within a couple of minutes that this horse was not going to hurt me, even though he had not been handled in quite a while. He has turned out to be a perfect babysitter for me!
It’s also good to watch a lesson or two and see how tolerant the horse is. Watching beginning children ride gives you a REALLY good idea about how much a horse will put up with!
Lessons are great, I have been riding w/p for 12 years with no formal instruction, but I decided last week I was going to start taking lessons. Wednesday I am going to meet someone who does EVERYTHING western to see if she is a compatible trainer for me, and I am super excited! She is even going to help me on cows
Good luck and make sure you have fun!
Working today on correcting students’ papers but with tears of joy in my eyes for Lexi and her wee gal. Their joy is my own.
Thanks for all the updates on the 3 Strikes horses!!
mustangtruth’s blog is quite interesting.
I just love reading about rescues that have a good outcome!!!! I also “specialize” in aged– or older horses. Right now I am caring for eight. I consider my place a refuge, not a rescue because I don’t normally take in and “re-home” horses like the rescues do. I’m not confident that I have the resources or knowledge to properly screen potential adopters.
I did have one mare give me a surprise filly this May. A mare I took in August 2008 turned out to be in foal. Once weaned, I found the filly a home here locally with a personal friend. I am not really focused on raising and training foals and young things any more. Caring for older horses takes up a lot of time and energy. I feel so sorry for most of these old ones who find themselves in need of care once they are in their teens or older.
So many of the stories about horse rescues on the internet seem to end badly– it is great to read about rescues and individuals who are doing a wonderful job.
The old ones hit me the hardest, too. Seeing a sweet old horse get starved, abused, or tossed out like trash, and wondering how many years that horse worked hard for his people– ugh, it’s heartbreaking. I don’t go to horse sales, but if I did, that would be my weak spot. For them to live so long and endure whatever their history is composed of, and for what? Just to end up getting slaughtered in the end? Disgusting.
I’m also a sucker for an old horse, partly because I plan to keep my horses for life. I figure a 20 year old horse will probably be a ten to fifteen year commitment, and if I kick the bucket before the horses do (not that I expect to), it won’t be a long-term responsibility for my sweet son who is not into horses.
All touching stories, but the old neglected mare having a foal really hit home for me today. I lost a foal just yeasterday (on Valentine’s) that was born premature with a lung infection. The mare was one that I had rescued back in November extremely underweight and had been abused. I had been told she could be pregnant and my vet confirmed it. She aborted a premie foal yesterday in a very hard labor that lasted about 12 hours – she was vet assisted and induced twice. She was just so exhausted she just couldn’t push anymore.
The foal was developed enough that it could have made it with human intervention, and we got everything together. We noticed he had been breathing funny and was quite a bit wheezy – vet said it was normal for slightly under-developed lungs. Then a few hours later, the baby just stopped breathing. We did CPR on the foal and managed to get him breathing again, but it was such a struggle. When breathing for him, you could hear a deep bubbly sound. We rushed him up to the vet clinic and put him on oxygen. He had quit breathing again in the car, so while one person was driving, the other was administering CPR again. Got him breathing yet again, and he started doing much better at the vet when he was put on the respirator.
For about 3 hours, we tried to get him warmed up (he couldn’t maintain body temp), intubated him with milk replacement, put him on heated IV drip, and finally, he just quit breathing again. This time was different – his lungs had collapsed. We decided to euthanize him peacefully instead of letting him just fade out of conciousness – I couldn’t bear to let him die like that. When we went to remove the respirator tube, thick, yellow liquid and cloudy white mucous pured down the line. He had been born with a lung infection. The mare had been through so much malnutrition and trauma – she was lucky to have carried the pregnancy almost to term.
People that do such cruel things to horses deserve nothing good in life – and I dearly wish there was some way to make them feel the same heart-break and emotional drain that dealing with their treachery creates for others. Because of the people in her previous life, there were two broken hearts in that stall, mourning and looking to each other for comfort… a mother and a “horse momma”. There is a very sad vet that really wanted that little guy live. There are the friends and relatives that are sad and shedding tears for a little colt that never should have been, and never will be.
Valentine’s Day will never be the same for me… but I am so grateful that the mare made it out just fine.
I am very sorry for your loss…but glad the mare is safe with you, someone who can actually get her a vet. She would probably have died if you hadn’t rescued her.
Thank you for the condolences… this is a hard loss for us. But rest assured – this mare will never go through this again. She should never have been bred in the first place – but on top of the abuse and starvation she was put through made it even worse.
I was very proud of her through it all – she is scared of just about everyone but me (I’m the only one that works with/feeds her), but she was perfect for the vet and vet tech. If anything, she has pulled through and will make a full recovery. I can handle the loss of the foal with time, but to lose her would have been devastating – she and I “click” and I would’ve lost a part of my soul with her.
Thank you again for the kind words – and keep up the good work. Someone has to stand up for those that can’t.
It always hits the hardest when we really really want to make it right with the horse, and then find out that, after all, we are not God!
It’s hard, I know, but you just have to accept that you went more than the distance for this foal, as Cathy says the mare would have died without your help so….you have not lost a foal, you have saved a mare.
And, I might add, saved her forever, which, again is, as far as I am concerned, above and beyond the normal call of duty.
So please accept my grateful thanks for what you have done to save this mare, and to give her a happy and peaceful rest of her life.
You are truly a beautiful and wonderful person, not only for providing the mare with care, but also for trying so hard to save her baby. I am so sorry for the loss you and the mare suffered through. I have no doubt you will help the mare just as she will help you in the days to come.
Aw hell. It was a personal misison of mine for my horses to never make it to this blog. Can I sue? Wait, no, that’s not how I’m supposed to handle it… IM GONNA GET MY LAWYER TO SUE U FOR TIHS!!!!!
How could anyone call Jerry a con artist, though? That annoys the heck out of me. There’s plenty of rescues you can go beat up on, why make yourself look like a jack ass for hating on a legit one? It’s accredited with the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries for pete’s sake. And I could swear that there were updates on Voodoo and Itchy on RT Fitch’s blog – kind of hard to believe a horse is dead if you have a picture of them happy and healthy in the fall/winter. In any event, you should ask Jerry for a current picture of Itchy – he’s a handsome devil!
Thanks for the updates on the others! I’ve been wondering… Sentencing is only a week away!
LOL ZiggyKlepto!
And yes, your boy is looking awesome.
Kind of OT, but here’s a horse I found who needs to be rescued from his current home. The dummy that placed the ad states “he’s still kinda small” and still feels the need to ride him . DUH, what do you expect he’s only a year and a half old! Poor thing, he’s still just a baby : (
http://orlando.craigslist.org/grd/1601894910.html
Aww, poor sad thing:( What he needs is a year or two off with someone knowledgeable who loves him (and wants to geld him). It looks like he’s got nice movement, and he’s not a total travesty as far as conformations goes–I’ll bet he’ll be very handsome as a 5 year old (provided he doesn’t get shipped first. Ugh). I hope someone can take him in!
Our two little colts from 3-Strikes are doing great! They’re halter broke, quiet for the farrier, and we have a pro trainer volunteering his time to get them really well handled and polite on the ground. I’ll try to take some pictures tomorrow but you can look at our homepage for before and afters: cohpl.org
Excellent, thanks!
Okay, they were balls of mud running around at the very farthest edge of the pasture with our newly weaned paint colt, so maybe I’ll get pictures this weekend when there are extra hands to catch, hold, and groom!
I don’t know if it’s just me, actually I do not it’s not just me because I had a friend check, but I can no longer find Hercules the Horse when I run a search on Facebook. Is anyone else having that difficulty?
My fear is that Wendy or someone allied with her reported Hercules’ FB page to Facebook and it got pulled because I’m pretty sure Facebook has policies against having pages for individuals who are not ‘real human beings’ or something to that effect. Sure would be a handy way to cover her tracks though, eh? I hope that’s not what happened.
Hercules is there! You may be having “new facebook” problems but heck so is everyone. I just posted on his page today.
Here’s the link!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hercules-the-horse/288516742215?ref=ts
Not the “happily ever after” picture I’d hoped to see of VooDoo.
When I clicked on the second (side) shot, then clicked on it again to enlarge it, what I saw was a horse whose spine is sticking way up, not enough flesh coverage on his back and hip bones sticking out. Can’t really tell under that dirty winter coat but it looked to me like he’s ribby as well. The belly may be a hay belly but it looks like a parasite belly to me. The coat itself looks dry and rough, like an unhealthy coat.
More than that, those horses were removed from Meduna’s clutches nearly a year ago. I’d love to see a picture of VooDoo being ridden. Or at least with a halter on and clearly enjoying being petted. Other horses from that rescue are being ridden, what is Habitat for Horses’ excuse?
Sure, they want to keep him as a pet and I hope they can do so. But life is what happens while you’re making other plans. If HfH discovers they can’t keep him, what have they done to make sure he has the best possible shot at another home?
I’m very curious, FHOTD–why are you giving Jerry and HfH a pass on stuff that you’d be snarking about if almost anyone else did it?
It’s winter, it’s been cold, I don’t expect show grooming. That’s like bagging on people because their horses are muddy – I do that on sites where the horse is BEING MARKETED. If it’s not available for sale or adoption and it wants to roll in the mud, heck, go for it. He’s not available, therefore I don’t care if he’s dirty as long as he’s happy and healthy. I don’t think he’s thin. He’s an older horse who was heavily parasite damaged – it’s understandable to me if he doesn’t look like Piglet, who is three. He has gained a ton of weight if you look at the difference between those two pictures. Certainly substantial enough progress to please me – maybe not enough for you, you have your right to your opinion as does everyone.
I do make exceptions to the “everything HAS to be trained and ridden” policy and one of those exceptions is that if you have a horse who’s been mentally or physically traumatized and you have a stable, permanent, well financed home for it and choose not to train it, I’m ok with that. You can’t do that with 50 of them, but if you do that with an occasional one, I get it. An aged mustang that was just recently gelded is probably a good candidate for the use of one of those exceptions. HfH doesn’t have a history of train wrecks and has a large support base so even if Jerry was hit by lightning tomorrow, I know for a fact that there are people who want to give this horse a home.
Do I think there’s any point to forcing this horse to get fitted up and ridden if he has a home (and multiple backup offers) where he doesn’t need to and people just want him as a pet? No. But would I think that were a good idea if he were in the hands of a private party who’d just lost their job? Absolutely. I’d say either get him broke or put him to sleep while you still have the money to. It’s not a double standard, it’s a judgment call based upon the big picture.
FHOTD wrote: It’s winter, it’s been cold
Habitat for Horses and therefore VooDoo are in south Texas near Houston. While they may believe they experience a season called winter, I know from personal experience that it doesn’t get anywhere near cold enough to cause cold stress in a horse, particularly one able to grow a winter coat like the one in the picture.
FHOTD wrote: I don’t expect show grooming. That’s like bagging on people because their horses are muddy – I do that on sites where the horse is BEING MARKETED. If it’s not available for sale or adoption and it wants to roll in the mud, heck, go for it. He’s not available, therefore I don’t care if he’s dirty as long as he’s happy and healthy.
The grooming itself is not as important as the indication that he can be safely and extensively handled on the ground. If he’s halter broke and has ground manners, why not provide some proof? If he doesn’t have good ground manners, what is going to happen on the day when he exercises his innate knack for self-destruction? You know the one, the one that allows a horse to find the one tiny sharp point in a 200 acre pasture and rip their hide open on. Even minor vet care becomes a major trauma with a horse that has no training. Problems that would be barely a blip in the life of a trained horse can kill an untrained one.
FHOTD wrote: I don’t think he’s thin. He’s an older horse who was heavily parasite damaged – it’s understandable to me if he doesn’t look like Piglet, who is three. He has gained a ton of weight if you look at the difference between those two pictures.
He was, as I recall, estimated to be between 12 and 15 years old. He’s a mustang, which usually means an air fern. In the wild, they go through cycles of famine and plenty and their metabolisms have evolved to take advantage of that. The mustangs that survive put on weight just looking at good hay.
You’ve shown pictures on this blog of horses twice VooDoo’s age who were emaciated and brought back to good weight in less than six months.
Of course, the problem may not be parasite damage at all. Can he be handled to the point where a vet can get in there to examine and float his teeth if need be?
FHOTD wrote: I do make exceptions to the “everything HAS to be trained and ridden†policy and one of those exceptions is that if you have a horse who’s been mentally or physically traumatized and you have a stable, permanent, well financed home for it and choose not to train it, I’m ok with that. You can’t do that with 50 of them, but if you do that with an occasional one, I get it. An aged mustang that was just recently gelded is probably a good candidate for the use of one of those exceptions.
How recent a gelding are we talking? As I recall, Jerry mentioned last October or November that VooDoo had been gelded. Even for an aged stallion, a normal gelding should not be so traumatic that it causes radical loss of condition. If anyone tried to use that as an excuse not to geld their fugly rescue, you wouldn’t accept it and you know it. A normal gelding is just not that huge a trauma (except to certain, often male, owners).
FHOTD wrote: HfH doesn’t have a history of train wrecks and has a large support base so even if Jerry was hit by lightning tomorrow, I know for a fact that there are people who want to give this horse a home.
What is far more likely is that the area will be hit by another hurricane. If their facilities are destroyed, does VooDoo have enough handling and training on him to accept being trailered and a new home with equanimity? In an evacuation emergency?
Training and riding, done properly, are beneficial to the horse. Do you remember all the comments to your blog entry earlier this week, talking about horses that loooooovvveee their jobs?
I’m not saying that VooDoo should be turned into a performance horse. I’m saying that I would like to see some proof that he’s in acceptable condition (which he is not right now), that he has had enough handling and training so that routine care like hoof trimming and vet care is not a hugely traumatic event in his life and yeah, some low level riding to give him the mental stimulation of something to think of beyond the next mouthful of grass.
Horses that are trained and ridden properly even in extreme old age do seem to live longer, healthier lives. VooDoo deserves that just as much as any other horse.
I disagree with you that the horse is thin, and in case I wasn’t being fair, I asked a veterinarian friend who also looked at the pictures and does not believe the horse is thin. I don’t know what you’re seeing. I’m not seeing it. He’s not a Quarter Horse or an Arabian, he’s a mustang with a more naturally angular shape to him but he is not underweight. The horse can be handled (heck, the horse could be handled at the time of rescue, go look at the banner at http://nebraska200.horsereunions.com). By recently gelded, I meant gelded at an advanced age, not recently as in two weeks ago.
You know my opinion on it – I’m not the one who WOULD have had a problem if the decision had been to euth all those horses. I don’t have a problem with euth, I have a problem with suffering and abuse. That said, I also have a problem with people lying and saying a rescue euthed when they didn’t in order to shit-talk them online. That’s the reason I brought this up and posted the new picture. Voodoo has a home. He is safe. He is living about 300x better than he was at Jason’s and at least 150x better than he’d be living if he were still wild. That is good enough for me. Sorry if that’s not good enough for you, but again, this blog is my opinion. You can have your say and you have, but I’m not going to agree with you.
The second picture od Voodoo he is in no thin. Yes his hip bones stick out a little bit but he isn’t a QH. here is my 67 yr.old mustang who was starved, hog tied and beat all while carring a baby. You can see her hips but she is in no way thin
Voodoo is a little muddy but that dont mean he can’t be handled. Horses get muddy its what they do.
My horse is muddy but i can handle her.
67?
That was a typo, right?
Otherwise it’s time to call the Guinness Book!
And no, yours isn’t skinny either, and I am sure she had a wonderful time getting muddy.
yea i ment to make that 6 go bye bye but didn’t
sorry that should be 7 year old.
Maybe it doesn’t NORMALLY get very cold here, but it’s been freezing off and on (mostly on) since before Thanksgiving. We’ve had more than 5 nights where it got into the 20′s. I’ve had to break ice out of my horse’s water buckets. This is south Texas, dammit! Trust me, all of the horses around here who are not kept in stalls with lights on them are fuzzy. Do you need me to go photograph mine for proof?
No, apparently I need to fly down there and show-groom Voodoo and retake the picture. I’ll get right on that.
Just for the record. This is an ungroomed horse in Texas this week: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RuuHZNYX2lw/S27gbw-HDvI/AAAAAAAAAFM/vBviMhWzWqk/s1600-h/DSC01818.JPG and after two(2) hours of grooming: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RuuHZNYX2lw/S27g0n60GtI/AAAAAAAAAFU/jLeAPJaFOg4/s400/DSC01820.JPG.
[FHOTD in: Sorry I can't make that show up but blogger doesn't let me do that. You can click on them though!]
I don’t see it. When I enlarged the pic, Voodoo’s weight looked fine, and there is NO comparison to the “before” pictures.
Fugly-
I have been reading your blog about the VLC, and I am curious about your plans for using him as a breeding stallion. Dosen’t that sort of go against everything you’ve been saying on this blog about breeding? I can understand if he is an amazing little horse ( I say little because I am one of those 17 hh warmblood-riders!) with awesome bloodlines, but then couldn’t he be a FANTASTIC W/P or working hunter A/A horse? One that might possibly get you somewhere in the show ring? I am certainly not questioning your decision–he is your horse after all. But you are always saying that breeders are the problem, and I know that there are responsible ones out there, but a horse is a horse, and the fact of the matter is that there are too many of them: Supply and demand, basic civics and ecom! And also, would you have credentials for the mares that he would breed to?
He is currently in full training and being shown. He won’t breed any mares until and if he earns that right in the show ring and I expect him to have significant accomplishments by the end of this season or he’s done and will be gelded. If he remains a stallion, he will have a limited book, mares will be approved. He has two foals from before I owned him, none while in my ownership, and none expected.
You could and should question the hell out of it if I wasn’t training and showing him, or if I was breeding him before he’d done anything! If that wasn’t happening, I WOULD be the biggest hypocrite on earth. I don’t mind the questions one bit because I practice what I preach. He’s not breeding, and he’s working toward becoming a valuable horse and stallion prospect.
Would you be willing to relinquish his show name? I, and I am sure others, would love to be able to track his progress through show records.
It’s no secret, his AQHA name is Big Yellow Caddi.
Funny, that’s what my first car was.
Hey Fugs, what does VLC stand for? Good luck with him in the show ring. If he doesn’t cut it as a stallion, he at least sounds like he’ll be a fantastic gelding.
Very Large Colt. So named when he was still technically a colt and I got on him the first time, looked down and literally got dizzy. To understand this, you have to realize I grew up with polo ponies, so 16.2 to me, while normal height to many of you, is gigantic to me.
To this day, one of my biggest challenges with him is getting on bareback off the mounting block. I’m not tall enough even with the block to swing my leg all the way over, so I have to hook my knee over the top of him then take a jump and scramble while everybody laughs at me. Last time I did it, everybody actually heard something pop in my hip. Man, I’m getting old!
SO funny. I used to love the big ones… always had to climb on things to get on without splitting in two but loved them. Still do, but I just got my appy back from the trainer and am IN LOVE with not needing a bucket truck to get near the saddle. She’s MAYBE 15 hands… if I look at her while I’m slouching.
I love him but when I’m done campaigning him and have some disposable income again, I’m totally buying myself a nice little 14.2 or 14.3 cutting mare.
Before I got my first horse, I bought a TON of books. I found all of the following helpful:
Horse Health and Nutrition for Dummies
Horses for Dummies
Horseback Riding for Dummies
The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Horses
Centered Riding
The Horse Behavior Problem Solver – Jessica Jahiel
The Rider’s Problem Silver – Jessical Jahiel
Taking Care of Horses – Peter Brookesmith
Getting Your First Horse – Dutson
Taking Up Riding as an Adult – Delmar
Getting the Most from your Riding Lessons – Smith
The Complete Equine Veterinary Manual
A REALLY good website is:
http://www.horse-sense.org/
Just go to the archives and there are a TON of articles!
This post was in response to Animalia’s question above. I hate it when I reply in the wrong place!
Gosh. Am I understanding this correctly? Is the second picture of Voodoo an update photograph? Good god in Heaven that horse looks just as bad as he did before, if not worse. Look at that wormy belly! If I saw a horse turned out in that condition I would call AC.
Well, feel free to. I rarely moderate comments here so everybody’s welcome to an opinion. I do not think you will get far with any such accusations but I never interfere with anyone’s right to make themselves look foolish.
Is that you Jason? Hmmmm, or maybe it`s Anissa. Jason does seem to like women doing his dirty work.
Totally OT, but it seems that there are some…Ah! Fans. What I’m not quite sure about is why they keep reading the blog, ragging on the material, and making generally snarky comments if they DON”T like the material, but they do. Human nature/doings = complete mystery. I guess everyone needs their little diva fest to bitch about things.
[FHOTD in: Link removed. They have to get their own traffic. They do not get to co-opt mine and disrupt this blog. Given that my main internet "enemy" is now in jail for tack theft, I believe that says it all about their character and credibility. Case closed!
]
I found it on my own… that is so beyond funny
Ahahahaaaa! Well, anyone with half a brain knew she was no good when she crawled out from under her bridge the first time. And those that didn’t seemed to bail awfully fast once the arrests started piling up.
(This was in response to Fugly’s insert. Sorry to hijack your reply, Momomoots.)
Huh–I am so unsurprised (is that a real word?)
Hey Fugs! E-mail me I want to get those picts of the Nebraska horses from you
Heather from HSUS NDART
Michigan
You know, the really big, defining difference between good horse people and shitsacks like Jason Meduna is the number of starving horses on their respective properties. GHP: 0, SSLJM: Dozens. Another really huge difference is how that situation might arise, and if it did, how it would be dealt with. GHP: It’s either a rescue, it’s picked up some weird illness, or they suffered an error in judgement regarding pasture/feeding arrangements that resulted in (short-term) weight loss–You can be damn sure that in any of these cases, good horse people would be making changes to resolve that problem in a hurry. Shitsacks like Jason Meduna on the other hand, starve them himself, claim to be a rescue, and carry on nodding and smiling as if there wasn’t a gazillion undead horses wandering around his property begging for hay, and even if he did notice, it’s not like it’s HIS problem, because those damn horses must have starved themselves, cause he’s a RESCUE/sanctuary/whatever. *snort*.
I am SO glad that these horse got out of his “care” and into the hands of people who can adequately provide for them. To the folks that did the rehabbing, kudos, you have done a fantastic job, and I am so happy to see the results of your effort.
I agree completely. Another good example is with adoptions – the good rescues have bad adoptions, everybody does. But the good ones resolve, and repo when necessary, whereas the bad ones “cover up” and try to keep people from finding out what happened.
It really comes down to accepting responsibility when you’ve made a mistake or something went wrong. I’ve always wondered about the covering up of things like bad adoptions. I mean, shit happens, someone somewhere is going to find out about it and shoot their mouth off (thank god), and a coverup is going to make everything look infinitely sketchier, so really, what’s the point?
WTH on the bagging on Voodoo posts?
The weather in California is not exactly freezing either but we still have horses that grow winter coats and roll in mud. I’m in the colder part of the state and we barely get winter either ,we had a couple non sequential nights of low 30′s but I can assure you my horses winter coats are in and they are not wormy and they have had them every year from about Nov-March.
If you google it oon your lil’ internet machine there, you can type in weather , Galverston County Texas and see they also get weather in the 30′s and 40′s at night and 50′s in the day. Low enough to grow a winter coat.
Hips and bony? Maybe you didn’t realize the first was a before picture?
Wormy belly? . Although considering his pasture mates were dropping dead from being literally eaten alive , I wouldn’t doubt he has damage. Unless you have some way of analyzing his feces from a photograph , maybe you should stop looking for issues.
To top it all off he looks a hell of a lot better than the dead horses and much much better than he did when he was brought in.
Serious WTH people?
I am so with you. I try to look at improvement as opposed to actual condition. With a rescue who suffered as much physical devastation as Voodoo seems to have done, you cant really expect him to be 100% again, even after a year. If any one on this board had gone through as much as Voodoo, I’m pretty sure they’d feel LUCKY to look as good as him.
As far as the winter coat goes, I’ve heard that that has more to do with the length of the days than how cold the weather is. When the days are shorter, it cues the horse’s metabolism that it’s winter so they start growing more hair, irrespective of the actual temperature. If I’m wrong, please feel free to correct me, but I remember hearing that at some point.
Sassysmom, I agree with you. Clearly, these responses have something to do with a personal agenda against the HfH rescue, or friends of the horse abuser or something, because there is no way Voodoo is thin in the recent photo. And he is clearly ALIVE, which may have triggered some anger from the slime throwers trying to depict him otherwise.
so i was browsing my local craigslist and found this http://visalia.craigslist.org/grd/1602688615.html
it sounded perfect for this blog
I can’t be the only one thinking this, but I think VooDoo’s name is highly fitting, considering he’s come back from the dead twice.
He’s a cute horse, love his coloring even though I’m not all that much into Pintos. Has he been gelded yet? If he has and it’s been mentioned, I somehow missed it.
Yeah, he was gelded last fall as soon as he was good enough weight to stand the procedure.
Animalia – a VERY good way for getting a feel for all things equine is to volunteer with a NARHA approved therapeutic riding center. You can interact with the horses and work with them, learn about tack, handling – and make a difference in the riders’ lives. And all such programs need, cherish and love their volunteers. No prior horse experience needed – you get to learn “on the job”. And you can make contacts with other horse folk there….
http://www.narha.org/Centers/center_state_search.asp
In response to several comments above about VooDoo’s coat. The comments of rsc are correct. Horse coat growth cycles are mainly regulated by photoperiod (hours of daylight-short days influence winter coat growth, longer days stimulate shedding and summer coats) and not much by ambient temperature, even in south Texas. That is why lights are used to stimulate shedding in show horses. They also affect reproductive cycles and therefore are used to stimulate mares cycling early in the breeding season.
This is off subject, but does anyone in wisconsin know of any horses with H/J background that is for sale? I have nopt had any luck finding anything. its okay if its a rescue im willing to put time into it. just wanted to know if anyone knew of anything. my email is strehlow_samantha@yahoo.com thankyou to anyone who knows of a horse or had any info.
I think he looks pretty good in the second photo. As far as wormy belly goes, nah.
Momomoots! Whoot! Yes, my internet “enemy” will be chilling for awhile! And, I’m sorry, I think Voodoo looks very well, I’m no expert, but I would never pick him out of a crowd, as a “rescue,” he’s damn good looking! Thanks for the updates Fugs, it’s appreciated.
Oh, I’m sorry, this is O.T., but has anyone heard from Joe, lately? His blog has been down for awhile..
No but I was wondering that too. I always read him. It’s not the first time he’s had major technical problems though. He must be on Comcast. *snerk*
I don’t think Voodoo looks overly thin in the “after” picture. Sure, he’s dirty and looks like he’s been out acting like a horse…. mine are the same mudballs so I don’t get to say “holy heck he’s dirty.” Heck, mine look homeless most of the time. Well fed but without permanent address or proper shower facilities lol.
I DO, however, wonder what prevents him from being trained and adopted out. He’s not THAT old (12-15 is just not that old), I haven’t read anywhere that he has any serious defects, mental or physical. I have never really believed in rescues having “permanent residents” unless they are not eating donated hay. This particular rescue does good work – I won’t argue that – but I will not donate time or money to one that has permanent rescues. I don’t care if it’s an unadoptable horse or one the rescuer just fell in love with or thinks would make a good poster-child. That’s just my opinion. It’s my money to do with as I see fit, and I apply that logic to other people. If they choose to support a rescue that chooses some horses to keep I will not judge them. I would just ask them to think about it for awhile.
Thank you GrainneDhu!!! While I feared Voodoo was dead, I am glad he is alive. That said, looking at this pic, does it seem to anyone else that of the 300 pounds he gained perhaps 50-70 is a worm load?
He looks extremely wormy, no good weight on his topline, no muscling, poor hair coat, tail head looks rubbed, whats going on w/ his eye? Less than stellar if you ask me. We conveniently can’t see WTF his feet look like. He’s alive though!
Here are examples of 2 horses we rescued who are both twice voodoos age at least.
There is no excuse for him still looking this way after almost a year.
Mo on intake 4/11/09-
Mo after 1 month & 1 week 5/19/09-
Mo August
4 months to optimal.
Doc day of intake June
Doc 2 months later August
Doc September
4 months again.
Both horses late 20s-30s and severely compromised.
I rest my case.
People may in fact think his condition acceptable, but rescues should not. Especially rescues who have the audacity to think they should be accrediting someone else.
FAIL
OK, but you’re showing horses in summer…look how green the grass is. Of course they are slick-coated. It’s SUMMER. This is February in Texas and it’s been an unusually severe winter of the kind they don’t normally have there. Hairy is a normal state. If Voodoo looked like that in July, I’d say something too…but any horse that has not been bodyclipped looks like that in February. If you have horses with long shaggy hair that looks super shiny and healthy, please show pictures.
That said, a careful look still tells me that horse would be rated as no lower than a 4 on the Henneke scale…which is totally normal weight. If you want to argue that, tell me where you would argue that? What part of his body do you believe shows condition lower than a 4?
I have had rescues that have made amazing progress in a month or two also, but I’m hesitant to judge because I saw what a filthy, disgusting pit that horse came from and I know it could take some time to get him totally worm free. He’s normal weight, he’s living a nice life and the hay keeps coming. Could I get him looking prettier if I put him in a paddock and pumped supplements and daily dewormer to him? Of course I could. But all in all, I think the improvement is more than good enough based upon the condition he arrived in.
I would like to see this horse in person. He looks suspiciously thin to me. I think the fact that he does have a shaggy coat is covering up some of the problems. That backbone, hip and tailbone combined with potty stomach don’t look so good, especially when you look at the picture blown up. And in my experience, horses that look a bit thin in photographic evidence usually look much worse in person.
I’m surprised that you are giving this one a pass. I’ve been following FHOTD for about a year now and I’ve always heard the opposite from you about getting horses up to weight in a decent period of time. I.e., feed them, worm them, and etc… A “it’s not rocket science” argument, usually.
And I’m not a Fugly “hater,” btw (which is silly, imho. It’s like high school cliques, only worse cuz we can all be “anonymous” on the other side of our computer screens). I think FHOTD does a lot of good. Don’t always agree, but often do. Just this one seems to be getting a pass. It’s great that he is getting fed, and is in a much better situation from whence he came, but since he is in the hands of a rescue, not to mention a pretty prominent one, I would think he would look better than he does. Ya know, to provide a good example for the rest of us. I would expect you to be holding them up to your regular standards.
I’m just not seeing the weight issue you’re seeing. It’s not a matter of getting a pass, it’s a matter that I don’t see a problem. Please point out to me what about the horse would cause you to score him less than a 4.
Sorry to take so long to get back on this. Busy! I’m not a veterinarian, and it is a photo, so I’m not going to go spouting off whether he’s a 4 a 3 or, whatever…Like I said before, I would like to see this horse in person. What bothered me from the very first was that potty belly. Then when I did click on the photo to enlarge…that topline looks suspiciously shark finlike. Combined with strange long hairs down low and short rub hairs on top…
He looks like he has a nasty case of the worms to me or some other issue that’s keeping him from processing the food and putting the weight on. If he were my horse I would be concerned (and I’ve always thought I was less discriminating than you!).
Photos can tell a thousand words, they say. But about 500 of those can be lies (or at least not quite true…). That’s why I said I would like to see Voodoo in person. But absent being able to fly to Texas just out of curiosities sake…I wonder if they have a tail-head shot of him? That could show a lot more of that topline and maybe go toward answering these questions.
“OK, but you’re showing horses in summer…look how green the grass is. Of course they are slick-coated. It’s SUMMER. This is February in Texas and it’s been an unusually severe winter of the kind they don’t normally have there. Hairy is a normal state. If Voodoo looked like that in July, I’d say something too…but any horse that has not been bodyclipped looks like that in February. If you have horses with long shaggy hair that looks super shiny and healthy, please show pictures.”
I’m glad you mentioned that, so can you post what he looked like last summer then? I’d love to know, as I’m sure many others would as well.
Here is what our senior horses look like this winter. None of them have been clipped, just good care.
same horse as above less the grass, insert snow. Wow, shiny!
Mo
Cowboy (20YO QH)
Shiny! Imagine that!
Here is a horse we took in just a month ago today- senior, missing teeth, emaciated- Macey http://www.mountainviewrescue.com/Macey%20In%20The%20Snow.pdf
This is KY where its a lot colder than TX. We too have had an unusually cold and wet winter. Whats the excuse now? I can’t believe you are making excuses for him!!!!
“That said, a careful look still tells me that horse would be rated as no lower than a 4 on the Henneke scale…which is totally normal weight. If you want to argue that, tell me where you would argue that? What part of his body do you believe shows condition lower than a 4?”
A well kept horse should have a winter coat yes, but damn sure not like voodoos. That is a coat made from POOR condition, not just winter. The fact that I even have to explain this to you is mind boggling. He looks terrible Cathy and I can’t even believe you are endorsing otherwise. Sure, he may be a 4 (though how you can come to this conclusion viewing one picture I’ll never know) but you are seriously going to try to argue the fact that he looks healthy??? Optimal??? Ummm… no.
“I have had rescues that have made amazing progress in a month or two also, but I’m hesitant to judge because I saw what a filthy, disgusting pit that horse came from and I know it could take some time to get him totally worm free. He’s normal weight, he’s living a nice life and the hay keeps coming. Could I get him looking prettier if I put him in a paddock and pumped supplements and daily dewormer to him? Of course I could. But all in all, I think the improvement is more than good enough based upon the condition he arrived in.”
I beg to differ its “good enough”. Good enough for who? Are you kidding? Perhaps it would be “good enough” if he wasn’t at a rescue who is supposed to be accrediting and setting standards for all other rescues. I can’t believe you even said that! I am disgusted at his condition a year later, and I’m disgusted that last week you were ready to rip Jerry a new one, while this week you find this acceptable? I’m sorry but I’m not holding my tongue on this one. Voodoo deserves no less standards of care than any other horse, mustang or otherwise. Mustangs are notoriously easy to keep. Obviously, he may need a bit more than “hay to keep coming”. This is a disgrace. I have never in my years as a horseman used daily dewormer, or “pumped supplements”. I do however offer the horses in our care the basic necessities they require as individuals to thrive. You and I both know he is lacking the one on one BASIC care he needs to thrive. PERIOD.
IMO this blog post was politics plain and simple Cathy. I used to respect your opinion because you had the balls to call em like you see them. But I’m sorry, this is not acceptable to me, nor should it be to you. And furthermore, nor should it be to ANY rescuer out there. Jerry can stick his accreditation right up his ass. I would never allow him on our property after seeing how he takes care of his rescues. What a joke! And DO NOT get me started on the latest debacle. Please do not lecture me on hell holes, I pull horses from them too. NEVER has one of the horses in our care EVER looked like this a year later. If Jerry can’t provide Voodoo with the care he deserves, then perhaps he should adopt him out to one of the many people I’m sure would be glad to provide him a home where he will receive the care to maintain him OPTIMALLY.
I’m sorry to go off on a rant here, but I’m just scratching my head over WTF you are thinking?
“Good enough” for me – it’s my opinion. You don’t agree, that’s fine. But I do wonder from your comments if your outrage is really about recent events that exposed Susan Pohlman for the fraud that locals have always known her to be? You seem to be referencing that, so let’s just get it out in the open. Do you consider Susan Pohlman to be a “good” rescuer? Perhaps superior to Jerry?
Put your opinion on the table, let’s go.
OMG!!! Hell NO! I called the State Police in OR myself on Susan! I’m pissed because Jerry can fly around the world on donated dimes passing out BS accreditations, but Jerry himself couldn’t pass one if he tried. Thats right, I said it.
Also, when you take it upon yourself to certify someone in horse rescue, you should also take it upon yourself to see the horses in your wake get the help they need. I know he is passing the buck on Susan’s horses, I have read the private emails from Patty attesting they “can not file an official neglect report because of confidentiality issues” WTF? So you can tell someone they are doing a great job and welcome them into your horse rescuing entourage, but you can’t help horses who are stuck at people’s rescues that are neglecting them??? I don’t get it and like I said, I think its disgusting. I think if the donors who fund his accreditation escapades had any idea, I’m sure they’d be a pissed as well huh?
What good is an accreditation if its passed out by someone who thinks its ok to keep HIS rescue horses in substandard condition? What good is accreditation if in turn nothing will be done when the rescues fail miserably and its seen the horses are suffering?
When you first posted the accreditation program way back, I read my ass off. I researched HFH, I researched the principles, and I researched Jerry. I was interested in perhaps proceeding for our rescue. What I found was less than stellar and I kept quiet until I could do some long term research of my own. Well this is it. Enough.
I don’t know if you are truly not seeing this, or if you are just covering for him??? Either way, how disappointing! I’m sorry if it seems I’m personally attacking you, that is not my intention. I just see you playing double standards here and I thought you were above that.
Jerry’s rescue was inspected and accredited. So was Angel Acres. Those are the only two that have passed so far. I don’t know how many have been inspected so far. Jerry is NOT part of GFAS leadership. I believe there is a weird rumor that he and Patty Finch are related because they share a surname, but they’re not.
GFAS apparently has a confidentiality policy. Do I agree with it? HELL, NO. But if I sign a confidentiality agreement, am I going to abide by it? Yes, unless I want to be sued. Personally I would not sign such a confidentiality agreement in the first place because I don’t agree with it, but to each their own. The question here is whether any of us should support GFAS if their policy impedes a prosecution. I am asking that question myself. I don’t believe I will support them if they in any way interfere with Susan Pohlman being brought to justice. See, the difference between us though is that you’ve decided it’s all GFAS’s fault whereas I am suspicious there is a police cover-up here due to Tom Pohlman being an ex-officer. I think that may be a stronger issue. Don’t you think that is a possibility? I am just saying I don’t know enough to point a finger for sure.
If you think you found something awful about HFH, either post what you think you’ve found along with facts/photographs/evidence to back it up, or don’t. Don’t just speculate and reference some mysterious things. Post whatever you think you have and then you let the accused person respond – that is what’s fair. Wouldn’t you want the same standard if someone was accusing you of running a substandard rescue? I don’t cover for anybody. I just ask that attacks be fair and that the attacked person have a right to respond and know exactly who is accusing them of what.
For accuracy’s sake: GFAS has accredited a few more horse rescues as of today – there aren’t just the two now. They just posted a list but not everything on the list is a horse rescue:
http://sanctuaryfederation.org/gfas-sanctuaries.php
MANY Mustangs (not all because they are pretty diverse types) have very long coarse haircoats in winter-they look just like Voodoo and I have looked at them in different areas of the country, and under remarkably different management conditions. His haircoat is actually pretty typical, and they can look . Also, the other horses in the picture have winter coats. This horse is being kept as a “pasture” horse and often gray, white, and roan coats do not look shiny under these conditions.
The horse is IM prof. opinion acceptable. You cannot expect a horse tken from a situation where it is starving and put into a pasture situation where it is not being ridden to show muscling and condition as you would a typical riding horse.
The gut may be a hay belly or it may be parasite related. I suspect the horse has been wormed regularly, but a quantitative fecal could easily shed light on that. The horse is also in an age bracket that it may be Cushingoid.
FHOTD wrote: This is February in Texas and it’s been an unusually severe winter of the kind they don’t normally have there.
Yeah, they’re having what in Iowa would be called “normal fall weather” and what in Nebraska would be called “late summer weather.” Horses in normal health in all three places retain normal condition, including body fat.
FHOTD wrote: Hairy is a normal state.
There’s a normal winter coat, which is fuzzy, soft and healthy looking.
And then there’s a parasite coat, which is rough and dry looking.
Look at the hair along VooDoo’s topline. It looks sunburned, dry, rough and harsh. Not the normal fuzzy healthy coat of a horse in winter.
FHOTD wrote: If Voodoo looked like that in July, I’d say something too…but any horse that has not been bodyclipped looks like that in February. If you have horses with long shaggy hair that looks super shiny and healthy, please show pictures.
A winter coat doesn’t look shiny because the hair doesn’t lie down flat. It sort of sticks out all over to provide insulation for the horse’s body. It feels and looks soft to the touch. Not rough and brittle looking.
Really, I’m in disbelief that you don’t apparently know the difference.
FHORD wrote: That said, a careful look still tells me that horse would be rated as no lower than a 4 on the Henneke scale…which is totally normal weight. If you want to argue that, tell me where you would argue that? What part of his body do you believe shows condition lower than a 4?
Click on the picture and keep clicking until it won’t go any larger. On my computer at that point, I have to scroll up and down, back and forth, to see VooDoo’s complete body.
Now focus on his hindquarters. There is a pronounced hollow between his spine and the point of his hip bone. His spine, right above the tail head, has deep pronounced hollows so that it looks like a hawser covered in skin, rather than a horse’s normal back. Then follow the spine forward from his tail to the middle of his back. There’s a hollow all the way forward to his withers.
In that regard, I’m giving the benefit of the doubt because VooDoo does clearly have a heavy coat. That, if anything, makes him look FATTER than he really is.
FHOTD wrote: I have had rescues that have made amazing progress in a month or two also, but I’m hesitant to judge because I saw what a filthy, disgusting pit that horse came from and I know it could take some time to get him totally worm free.
The conditions on that ranch were horrible, no doubt about that. If you read MustangTruth, she’s put up photos of the property that make it clear that it was grazed down to the ground so that there was only basically sand left.
But other horses from the same ranch, even older than VooDoo, have made better recoveries in the 11 months since they were removed from Jason Meduna’s hands.
One problem they have in south Texas is that parasites build up resistance to wormers fast. Much fast than up north, where the parasites in the environment get frozen to death every winter. If all they can give him is feed-through wormer, that could be the problem right there. If he isn’t halter trained, how would they get paste wormer into him without a major rodeo every time?
You yourself have said that there is no excuse for every horse not to be halter trained, able to be bathed, clipped, loaded, cooperate with a farrier and veterinarian. Not just show horses, but every horse. Where is there any proof that VooDoo has been taught these things in the 11 months since he left Jason Meduna’s care?
You posted about a rescue in the PNW who has fat horses but has multiple ooops! breedings, multiple freak accidents, etc. She could be considered better than Jason Meduna but I sure wouldn’t use that as a reationalisation to send a horse there.
I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell Jerry that next time Voodoo is seeing the vet or having his feet trimmed, he has to video it for you guys. And then I will probably be accused of substituting in another paint horse. I have had multiple vets look at the picture and no one is seeing what you describe. I do not think the horse looks unhealthy – just hairy and dirty.
Jerry’s rescue just passed GFAS accreditation. It could not do that if feet were not done, and horses were not dewormed (with records kept – record keeping is a huge part of the accreditation process). I went to the GFAS presentation and am familiar with the entire process, including having seen forms and checklists to be used, etc. You weren’t there, were you? Whether you agree with the most recent drama involving GFAS or not, the fact is they did NOT accredit a rescue that did not meet their standards. Again, YES, I have a problem if their confidentiality policy precludes reporting a criminal situation to the authorities. However, I do not know that is the case or that it was not reported. As I stated elsewhere, I believe this may be a cover up on the part of local authorities, not GFAS, but I honestly do not know and neither do you, which is why I’m stating the possible scenarios as best I can.
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FHOTD wrote: Jerry’s rescue just passed GFAS accreditation. It could not do that if feet were not done, and horses were not dewormed (with records kept – record keeping is a huge part of the accreditation process). I went to the GFAS presentation and am familiar with the entire process, including having seen forms and checklists to be used, etc. You weren’t there, were you?
Edging up to some ad hominem to make your point?
I’m old enough to know that there are two components to decent accreditation (I’ve been through the process used for universities and research centres, so this is also based on my own experience). One component is having good standards and inspection protocols. the other component is actually applying those standards and inspection protocols.
It isn’t easy writing good standards. It isn’t easy writing good inspection protocols, either. But it can be done and it sounds like GFAS has produced something that gets your stamp of approval. Yay for them.
Now the question is, are they applying these written standards and protocols in a fair, transparent way to the rescues they are invited to accredit? And this is where I’m really beginning to wonder.
For one thing, the person or people carrying out an accreditation inspection have to be like Caesar’s wife: not just above beyond reproach but clearly seen to be beyond reproach. You say that Jerry Finch is not GFAS, but he runs one of the first two rescues accredited and is now apparently carrying out accreditation inspections? That does not sound like they are unconnnected, either.
At the university accreditation level, if the accreditation teams see anything that is illegal, there is no confidentiality requirement that prohibits them from reporting it to the appropriate authorities. If they see animal abuse in labs that use animal subjects, if they see any sort of questionable handling of radioactive materials, if there are any dangerous chemicals or biologicals unaccounted for, the FIRST thing the accreditation team does is report it to the relevant authority! To do otherwise would leave the accreditation team open to suspicions of helping cover up a crime.
Strictly from what I’ve read in the comments to this one post, it sounds like GFAS is saying their inspector can’t report neglect due to confidentiality issues? If that is true, that automatically eliminates them as a credible certifying body right there.
FHOTD wrote: Whether you agree with the most recent drama involving GFAS or not, the fact is they did NOT accredit a rescue that did not meet their standards.
I know nothing about the GFAS drama, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up. My argument is based on the really piss poor condition that is shown in the photo of VooDoo, no more, no less. I don’t care whose custody he is in, I’d say the same if he were in anyone’s custody and looked that way after a year.
I do find it odd that VooDoo is apparently not on Habitat for Horses’ website, seeing as he is considered a rescue and permanent resident. You yourself have pointed out that it is ethically dubious for a rescue to have permanent resident horses that are young enough to be fully rehabbed, trained and placed. The phrase for such horses is usually “privately owned” and you’ve implied with many rescues in the past that they are being unethical in using donated money to maintain what amounts to their very own horse(s).
FHOTD wrote: Again, YES, I have a problem if their confidentiality policy precludes reporting a criminal situation to the authorities. However, I do not know that is the case or that it was not reported. As I stated elsewhere, I believe this may be a cover up on the part of local authorities, not GFAS, but I honestly do not know and neither do you, which is why I’m stating the possible scenarios as best I can.
We are in agreement on the confidentiality issue, then.
I continue to be completely baffled as to why you are bringing unrelated issues like GFAS into the discussion. I’m not on the inside track on any of that stuff and, in fact, have read about them only here. My problem is with showing a photo of a horse 11 months into rehab that shows a horse in far less than optimal condition. Granted, it’s not easy to see it in the smaller shots but when it is enlarged as much as possible, the lack of weight along the topline and the poor coat (not a winter coat–there are good winter coats and bad ones) and hair rubbed off the top of the tail are obvious.
If that is what you consider “piss poor condition,” I really have to wonder. I am totally NOT getting this, not at all. I can put up pictures of “piss poor condition” all day – scroll back to see that horse in Maine. THAT is poor condition.
“Ad hominem” is an attack upon a person. I merely observed the fact that I might be more familiar with GFAS than you given that I actually attended the presentation when they launched the equine sanctuary accreditation program. That’s a fact. I didn’t call you names, attack your intelligence or suggest that you might have downed a six-pack before posting. Pointing out a relevant fact to the issue at hand does not constitute an ad hominem attack.
Again, read the Henneke score standards. Voodoo is a four. Healthy weight. Again, I simply do not see any evidence of lack of health in that picture – just furry, winter condition. As I said before, could I put him in a paddock, carefully adjust his supplements, groom him every day and make him look better? Sure I could. But there isn’t any neglect here.
The reason I support the idea of training everything is because, if the rescue goes under, they’re in a better position to find a home. Not only does this particular rescue have very little to no risk of going under, but this particular horse does not need to be trained as he has a permanent sponsor. I cannot tell you more right now, you’ll find out the whole story before the year is up. For now, if you can’t take me at my word, oh well – you can’t please ‘em all.
I don’t know this person, but when s/he first posted on freakslist that s/he was looking for unbroke horses I thought it was a KB. But this is the update:
“Re: Needing a few UNBROKE horses (NOCO)
Date: 2010-02-17, 8:41AM MST
Thank you to EVERYONE who responded to my posting. Of the 38 responses that we got, many were from people with very nice, registered, healthy and sound, friendly horses that needed new homes. Twelve of the 38 responders offered to GIVE me their good, registered horses. Of the 12, I took 7. The 7 are two registered, three-coming 4 Arabian geldings, three registered two to 5 year-old Paints, very flashy, one registered AQHA, one registered TWH, and one grade quarter type two-yr. old.
These horses are nice, sweet-tempered horses. Nothing wrong with ANY of them. But the owners were unable to sell them because of the tight and very flooded market.
*I’m hoping that this information will stop some unnecessary breedings this spring. There’s no market. Please don’t do it.* (my comment: that also goes for reducing stud fees “due to economy”)
Starting next month, anyone interested in how this little group of unbroke horses is doing with their novice trainers you can go to my web site at http://www.rockymountainrawhide.com, find the horses and check in on their progress. They will be for sale as green-broke starting in July. Thanks again, Terry”
I guess they couldn’t stand to see the ads for free/cheap horses that aren’t trained and decided to give them a better chance.
FHOTD wrote: If that is what you consider “piss poor condition,†I really have to wonder. I am totally NOT getting this, not at all. I can put up pictures of “piss poor condition†all day – scroll back to see that horse in Maine. THAT is poor condition.
Straw man argument.
Yes, there are horses out there in much worse condition than VooDoo looks in the side shot. But for a horse that has been in rehab for 11 months, he does not look great, good or even passing. His condition is piss poor given the context of how long he’s been there and the high reputation of the place.
FHOTD wrote: “Ad hominem†is an attack upon a person. I merely observed the fact that I might be more familiar with GFAS than you given that I actually attended the presentation when they launched the equine sanctuary accreditation program. That’s a fact. I didn’t call you names, attack your intelligence or suggest that you might have downed a six-pack before posting. Pointing out a relevant fact to the issue at hand does not constitute an ad hominem attack.
I asked if you were edging up to ad hominem, I did not accuse you of doing so.
The standards they have come up with are available on the Web. Such standards should be self explanatory or what’s the point of having an accreditation program? Accreditation means that Jane BigHeart who is looking for a good rescue to donate her bonus to can read the standards and be assured that the rescue she is thinking of donating to fiulfills those standards. It should not require attending a weekend seminar, an afternoon presentation or even an hour long talk by someone from the organisation to make sense of the standards.
I’m saying that, based on the information that is available to their target population, they have not yet come up with a workable set of standards.
Saying a rescue has passed those standards is not giving enough information at this point because the standards as available right now are incomplete. Particularly when it turns out that the president of one of the first two groups accredited is now carrying out inspections for them, which implies a conflict of interest that is deadly to accreditation programs.
FHOTD wrote: Again, read the Henneke score standards. Voodoo is a four. Healthy weight.
I looked at the Henneke standards on the web before I wrote my first post on this matter. Here’s what I read: “Loin: An extremely thin horse will have a negative crease and a ridge down the back where the spinous processes projects up. No fat can be felt along the back of the horse. However, this is one of the first areas to fill in as a horse gains weight. Fat is first laid down around body organs, then along the base of the spinous processes. As the horse gets fatter, an obvious crease or depression forms down the back because of fat accumulation along the spinous processes. “
I interpret that as saying that emaciated horses lose fat along the part of the spine that sticks up above the spinal column itself; as the horse gains weight, those areas are among the first to fill in. So one of the very first places to look in assessing a horse’s progress in regaining weight after starvation is the loin area. VooDoo’s loin still shows hollows and lacks fat coverage.
Additionally: Tailhead: In a very thin horse up to a number 3, the tailhead is prominent and easily discernible. Once the horse starts gaining weight, fat fills in around the tailhead.
I interpret this to mean that horses that are a 3 or lower on the scale have obvious, bony tailheads that stick up. Once the horse starts to gain weight, the tailhead area “fills in” which I believe means becomes less prominent.
VooDoo’s tailhead is quite prominent in that picture.
Conveniently enough, the first hit on Google when I looked for the Henneke Body Condition Score was at:
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/1010.htm
and it includes three pictures of horses to illustrate. VooDoo looks remarkably like Photo 1, which is described as “This horse would have a condition score of 2.5 to 3.0. The neck and withers are thin and accentuated. There is fat buildup halfway on the spinous processes, and the tailhead is prominent but individual vertebrae cannot be visually identified. The ribs are easily discernible with no fat being deposited behind the shoulder.”
Using this, I would say the horse is a 4. I do not see any ribs on him. He just has a slight bit of spine showing. Look at these pictures.
http://www.admani.com/allianceequine/images/BodyConditionScoring/Horse%20Body%20Condition%20Score%20Card.pdf
Most of the descriptions of the scale note that the tailhead area’s appearance depends upon conformation – i.e. how the area fills in depends on tail set.
Henneke body scoring is perhaps best left to veterinarians. Legally speaking, that will be the opinion that is binding in any court system in a neglect situation. It is also best interpreted from the live animal where palpation is possible, rather than from pictures. Enlarging the pictures does little to improve their interpretation in situations like this.
It is very unlikely that VooDoo is languishing at HFH unobserved by staff persons or veterinarians. Realistically, why would the Director maintain a horse he has adopted in poor condition and provide photos of it publicly? It makes no sense, does it? Would any of the posters who run rescues take that chance? I think not.
By the way, typically, Program Project site visits typically consist of teams of 5:)
I am saddened to see that voo doo is not recovering as well as other horses that came from 3 strikes. Rather than ask Jerry to video Voo Doo, can you ask him to do a current CBC to see if VOO Doo is having similar issues as Dr. Bill, the yearling that arrived back from 3 Strikes ill, took a long time to get better and then died, never having recovered from the sickness he got at 3 Strikes.
By now Voo doo should have had enough anthelmintic to rid him of parasites and a fecal test could confirm that. Dr. Bill’s issue showed in this blood panels, but the many vets working on Dr. Bill were scratching there heads because Jerry was adamant to me that NO other horses from 3 Strikes were sick or having a slow recovery. Clearly that seems to be an inaccurate statement from the looks of Voo doo.
Meduna has been found guilty (as it should be) hopefully he will go to jail for a long time. Maybe its time Jerry considered conditions other than just mal-nutrition and parasites causing long-term issues for these horses. Dr. bill came off the same ranch as Voo Doo wouldn’t it just be the right thing to do?
I’m sure you have the same contact information I do and can contact him with your thoughts, but I do not believe there was anything wrong with those horses other than parasites and starvation, and I do not believe there is anything wrong with Voodoo now.
Well, I can’t talk, the horse I would take home if I could in a shot is probably about the same height as the VLC, and most of it leg. And I’m quite comfortable on him.
Except when he puts in a ‘playful’ buck, which on a horse that large and athletic…
First of all, I am not kicking old bones, accusing or attacking here. I sincerely have much better things to do.
Jerry is an investigator for the GFAS and also runs HFH who is accredited by them. Thats verifiable. But going by the picture posted here of Voodoo, the scene depicted could not pass the equine care standards of accredication. Have you read them? You’re in for a treat!
http://sanctuaryfederation.org/pdf/standards-equine-care.pdf
Page 6
f. Food presentation
ii. Diet shall be planned with consideration for the age, breed/type, condition, size and activity
level of the equine.
fail
iv. Starved equine shall receive a starvation refeeding diet, as directed by a veterinarian.
fail
v. High quality, clean, contaminant-free and nutritionally correct food shall be provided in
sufficient quantities to maintain animal health and appropriate weight given the animals
age, breed/type, condition, size, activity and any known medical conditions.
fail
vi. Hay and grain shall be formulated to provide a complete diet as recommended by a
veterinarian.
fail
vii. Diets, including hay, grain, produce, and vitamin and mineral supplements shall be
developed and monitored.
fail
ix. Food items should be placed above floors to minimize contamination from urine and feces.
fail
Page 7
x. Supplemental hay must be dispersed widely throughout pastures and dry lots to reduce or
eliminate aggression that results from competition for food.
fail
g. Diet increases or decreases
ii. Hay and grain shall be formulated to provide a complete diet as recommended by a
veterinarian.
fail
iii. Considerations for diet increase include weight and condition, age, overall food
consumption, activity level, and medical or behavioral considerations.
fail
vi. Underweight individuals experiencing health or behavioral problems may be separated for
supplemental feeding as needed to avoid undesirable weight gain in pasture mates.
fail
Those are only the Food Presentation section, not even 1 of the 11 pages of equine standards. Those I can say failed by looking at that picture. I haven’t even been over the rest of it this evening. I became a bit disillusioned the first time you posted it and I read it all. Seriously….not attempting that again tonight.
So…that said… as we know Jerry was sent out to Susan’s by GFAS for the accreditation program. Jerry saw horses that were 2′s on the property and noted the horses needed assistance. GFAS would not let Jerry (according to Patty’s emails) file a formal complaint with law enforcement. Jerry leaves. Email fallout ensures. I need not go over the lack of HSUS involvement. I called the county sheriff myself. I left a message to his voicemail, but he didn’t call me back that afternoon, so I called the state police. Talked with a great trooper whom I told the Tom connection (of course I thought of that). He said he would dig and he did. He called me back and indicated that the “investigator” has been there, the county has been there, and is going back. I got the distinct feeling that the reason nothing is happening is because the county has no funds or ability to handle 60 mustangs and can not seize without outside support and effort. GFAS sent Jerry in to accredit, but where are they when he flitters off and the horses are left there? They should all be held accountable. They should take this accreditation a bit more seriously when horses lives are at stake. Its well and dandy to have a piece of paper saying you are accredited by someone. Its far more important that you live up to those standards and set an example for others. FAIL again! I mean what else do you want me to say? I’m just plain disgusted.
I was told GFAS received over 9 million in grants. I have not verified this. But if so, I would hope to high hell they’d get those mustangs out of WWER. Surely not too much to ask? Maybe they could purchase some hay feeders & equine nutritionist/vet consultants for Jerry’s rescue so they could be in compliance with the very guidelines he’s going to investigate in other rescues. The hypocrisy is stunning really!
As far as this blog, I’ve always enjoyed it, but most of it seems to be speculation. I don’t usually share my comments or speculations. I did actually research MYSELF into this accreditation/HFHs involvement because I do not want our organization affiliated with BS programs and people who do not stand for the horse and its welfare. If I was presenting this to the board for approval, I needed to be sure it was a sound and ethical program and stood with what our organization’s mission is about. I’m seeing a whole lot of red flags here.
You can not tell me you wouldn’t judge this horse’s picture differently if this wasn’t someone you work with. Not saying you are covering for him, but I’ve seen you pick apart far less! I just want people to understand that a accreditation program is only as good as its members and enforcement. Guidelines are great, but the proof is in the pudding. This type of program gives donors, other rescues, and the general public a false sense of security. I don’t agree with it at all.
I have met my fair share of accusations and attacks and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if one doesn’t proceed shortly. What does that have to do with this? I’m happy to disclose information about our horses, programs and services. I feel an open book policy very important for an animal welfare charity of any sort. So why the secrecy surrounding Voodoo, and why the confidentially issues? If GFAS is supposed to assure the general public these accredited organizations are on the up and up, then they should be responsible for full disclosure to the public as to why, or why not the rescues make the cut.
Last week I thought you nailed it, but now I see perhaps not. I will loose some friends and I may seem like an utter bitch, but my overall concern for the situation is valid I assure you. Again, I am not trying to attack or accuse, I just see valid concerns on the horses part. While the hypothetical idea of an accreditation is great, I wish you would take the time to investigate exactly what you are endorsing. This says fail to me on so many levels.
Sorry for the book!
First of all, I am not in any way protecting GFAS. I am doing my best to dig out the truth of the current drama and have just sent e-mails with that in mind. Whether I will get a response remains to be seen. Whether I will remain a supporter of GFAS remains to be seen.
The GFAS standards are excellent, and strict. I think most of us would agree that they describe the ideal horse environment. I don’t know exactly where they draw the line during their process – they weren’t that far along with it when I listened to their presentation last year – but I doubt that 100% adherence to the standards is required to pass. Nor do I think this thing has been proofread well for logic – Page 6, ix and page 7, x actually contradict each other. How do you keep food items above floors while simultaneously dispersing lots of hay throughout your pastures? If the horses pull hay out of a hay feeder and are eating off the ground, must you run out and pick it up so that you are still in compliance? What if the wind blows it out of the feeder or off the mats you laid out? Please note that you have no idea in that picture I posted if there’s a hay feeder to the left, out of camera range. There could be. I don’t know either, but every time I’ve used any kind of bale feeder, the horses pull the hay out of it and throw it on the ground to eat. Don’t yours? And again, I don’t see the underweight you’re seeing in Voodoo. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I see a horse who’s a 4. A 4 is within normal weight range. Anything from 4-6 is normal, much as I can be in the “healthy” range for my height at anything between 110 and 140 pounds although Heaven knows there is a point I prefer to be at
I am pretty sure that I have read all the same e-mails of Patty’s you have – they do seem to have made the rounds – and it appears to me that she has intimated that they DID file a report. So I flat out asked her. Will she respond? Who knows.
Does the Internet community even have the right to know the answers to all of this? Eventually, yes – especially people who have donated to any of the entities involved. Right this second, if such a discussion serves to tip off police that a cover-up is being investigated? This is one of the rare cases in which I recognize that discussion really could screw things up. However, let’s face it, word is out. I’m not going to censor the discussion here, it’s not like this is the only place it’s going on, nor has anyone even asked me to censor it. As far as I’m concerned all parties have the right to have their say. I want to know who’s lying, GFAS or the police. But the answer may be that it’s none of my business. I can’t force anyone to talk to me and tell me the truth, anymore than you can force anybody to talk to you. I do not have any special powers. But trust me – I’m not covering up for anybody because I don’t know what the hell happened, either. I only know that Susan Pohlman has been taking crappy care of horses for a long time, that Susan is violently anti-euthanasia and has endless amounts of time to post high-drama drivel online, that there very likely are not good homes for 40 or 50 or whatever mustangs, that it will be a P.R. nightmare if some sensible-minded entity euths a bunch of them, that the Cloud-obsessed public will scream bloody murder if that happens and vilify the sensible-minded entity, and that the State of Oregon is not going to pay to feed and rehab a couple dozen barely handled mustangs. So, you know, the easy way out is to let Susan keep taking crappy care of them. You know this, I know this and, mark my words, Susan knows it – that is why she is still so smugly parading all over the message boards.
I’d like to see someone show some cojones and seize those horses and, if no homes can be found after a reasonable amount of time, put them to sleep — and if the public screams, instead of trying to downplay things, use that as an opportunity to educate the public about the fact that it’s just like dogs and cats:
There are too many
NO ONE has enough money to feed them all
You CAN NOT save them all
If you think the state should save them all, where do you think the money is going to come from?
Letting them starve at a so-called rescue is not the solution
That’s what I’d like to see. But I am not holding my breath it will happen. We will see what does happen.
I agree the guidelines go a bit far! I feel there are certainly ignorant contradictions and unnecessary stipulations. Some of those I feel like who WOULD pass them? Again, thats a problem. Expectations should not be put forth if they are not meant to be adhered to.
I don’t feed round bales, our horses eat from wooden overhead feeders, or off the ground. I see no problem with feeding hay from the ground, horses are natural grazers.(not in a mud or feces laden hole) Here’s the thing- each horse here is fed separately to insure the nutritional needs of the individual horse is being met. I would expect no less of anyone, certainly not a Globaly accredited rescue.
ULTIMATELY- I see an unhealthy Voodoo. A 3 IMO. Without examining a horse, its hard to say. I can guarantee none of the vets we use would find his condition acceptable for the amount of time he’s been in rehab. We can agree to disagree I guess…
I don’t want to pound my opinion into the ground. I don’t want to argue, we are on the same side right? I’m just so sick of the bureaucratic bullshit involved with rescue. As if it wasn’t hard enough. I think the hands of the county are tied. If they don’t have the ways and means what are they supposed to do? I’m hoping there will be some justice for these horses sooner than later.
Its a damn mess, but I hope GFAS does help, and I hope they do prove me wrong and turn out to be everything you hope for. I have my doubts with good reason.
In the meantime, I have some recent emails from dear Patty. I’ll forward, you can judge for yourself. Do let me know if she does respond to you. I’m just hoping for a positive outcome for the horses. I’m sick(literally) and tired(literally) and off to sleep so I can start the process again in about 5 hours. Got state legislative and local welfare issues I’m combating here. I really have no dog in this fight, but somehow I got involved, and I’m staying that way until something gives.
I’m guessing I have everything you have, unless it only went to you, but forward away. I’m interested in as much information as possible because I am trying to make a decision about whether or not this organization is one that I can continue to support/ Really, it is not that hard to have my support. If I think you’re acting in the best interests of the horses, you’re good. You don’t have to always do what I would want, you don’t have to be nice to me, just act in the best interests of the horses, which includes doing everything in your power to ensure a prosecution against someone who is criminally neglectful and not having policies which preclude that.
Without criminal prosecution, there is no hope of preventing the person from repeating their behavior. Period.
Mountain View Rescue wrote: I agree the guidelines go a bit far! I feel there are certainly ignorant contradictions and unnecessary stipulations. Some of those I feel like who WOULD pass them? Again, thats a problem. Expectations should not be put forth if they are not meant to be adhered to.
Well written standards should describe both ideal and minimum acceptable practises. Along with brief examples of ideal practise, minimum acceptable practises and examples of common failure modes.
So, for instance, ideal practise for a research lab handling hazardous biologicals would be for all records to be entered into a searchable database, so that any authorised person can sit down and find out who handled what substance on which day, how much was used, what was done with it, results and how the discards were handled, etc.
Minimum acceptable practises might be to have all of these records maintained on paper, in a filing system with the key readily available such that any reasonable person could sit down and figure out all the answers to the above in an hour or two of sifting through paper.
Common failure modes would be to have missing records, to have partial records, to have records that are not up to date, to have the records maintained in such an order that only one or two people can make any sense of them, etc.
University accreditation teams are usually 20-40 individuals. They include forensic accountants, workplace safety experts, and experts from related fields (for instance, inspection of a biology department might be done by chemists, botanists and physicists from various other universities). No inspection relies on one single inspector.
It sounds to me like what you’re saying is that GFAS has written up the ideal practises standards but has not indicated minimum accepted practises or identified common failure modes. In other words, they’ve only carried out one third of the task of creating standards. If this is true, then they really are not ready to be sending inspection teams out into the field.
What is really sad to me is, if this is so, it’s clear that they are not utilising publicly available resources. Are they engaged in re-inventing the wheel? That’s not an efficient use of funds, time or energy.
That is exactly what I wanted to convey. Thank you for doing it more justice! I appreciated the educated outline minus the emotion. I tend to have a personal problem doing that apparently!
That is a very well thought out description of how to set up an accreditation system.
However, I have served on review and accreditation panels for universities, funding agencies and intra-state (university) systems over a period of more than 25 years, often relating to animal use in teaching, research, medical and training settings. I have never seen a panel of 20-40 individuals set up even for some of the country’s largest and most prestigious programs. Administrative review (such as would involve forensic accountants is generally conducted for specific purposes and is not generally a part of lab animal use or scientific review/accreditation). Unfortunately I have also been involved in that on more than one occasion!
I’m hoping this works right to put my comment in the right place.
sweetlillena wrote: However, I have served on review and accreditation panels for universities, funding agencies and intra-state (university) systems over a period of more than 25 years, often relating to animal use in teaching, research, medical and training settings. I have never seen a panel of 20-40 individuals set up even for some of the country’s largest and most prestigious programs.
Try working for a department that handles viruses and radioactive materials. The animal use part of the inspection process is a breeze. So much as forgetting to dot a single “i” in a 20 page document about certain viruses is almost catastrophic. That is the way it should be considering the level of hazards involved but man, it was a major pain in the arse.
Believe me, I have both used radioisotopes and viruses requiring varying levels of containment (UM, NVSL/NADC anyone?) since 1976. I have been subjected to reviews related to this type of experimentation, and I’ve served as a reviewer for such programs. My comment was made from personal experience with a fairly large number of US universities/research and teaching programs over (GOD NO! 30-odd years).
Thats all totally true the shorter days trigger the winter coat. It still looks like they get heavier coats in colder climates and it takes a while to adjust when they go from a cold climate to a warm climate or the other way around.
I think there is an answer to VooDoo that meets both sides. I agree, he does look like he has his ribs covered, and I also agree he looks pot bellied and rough coated. He reminds me of the piglet pictures that made everyone think she was prego.
I have now has the unfortunate experience to go thru what is called “protein starvation”. I was trying to cover all the bills, and still keep everyone fed, and I switched to a cheaper 14% cattle feed. After a year, I lose a mare to a bad batch that had medication still in the chute and got into this supposedly non medicated batch, probably, and so I switched back to a 14% product that is meant for horses, and made where they don’t mix cattle feed. After 3 weeks the results were startling for me. my horses were not ribby before, but looked ‘deflated’ for lack of a better term.. and they ‘blowed up’ to look round and shinney on the new feed.
I had heard, and understood that all protein is not created equal, but never really experienced it in such a dramatic fashion right in front of my eyes.
So that is my take. I think VooDoo is protein starved, and/or fat starved and his diet needs to be changed.. I’m sure anyone with more than 10 head is challenged at different times to try and get everyone fed and pay the bills and it could be this is the culprit of the problem. JMHO.
grullotobi, what a horrid experience. I’m so sorry you went through it.
In biology labs, it is well known that when manufacturers formulate foods, their analyses are based on the specific animal that the food is designed for. So even though rats and mice eat basically the same ingredients, there are subtle differences in how they metabolise foods which means that they need different formulations.
Cattle are great herbivores. They are set up to get the most good out of everything they eat with the various stomachs, etc. Horses are not such great herbivores; they only have one stomach and everything travels through them relatively quickly. So, as you found out, a cattle food that is analysed at 14% doesn’t mean that a horse can get 14% out of it. Only a cow would be able to get that much protein out of it.
Dang! I put this comment in the wrong spot – so reposting here…
I wonder why no one has mentioned that the “pot bellyâ€/poor topline could be from having never been ridden/properly exercised and may not be a worm belly? Haven’t you ever seen a “pregnant†gelding – one that was NOT wormy and was in fact healthy? We used to own one – he was a complete pig and had never been ridden/exercised, so had never developed a nice topline (and interestingly, he had been a starvation case also – they tend to eat like they’re not going to see another meal for awhile! Well, most geldings do, but I digress…). That gelding turned around and looked like a different horse once he had been broke to ride and was receiving proper exercise. This horse Voodoo has been in captivity for quite some time, right? Maybe a small pen prior to his rescue? Certainly he wasn’t exercising himself considering he was a bag of bones. Is there any reason to believe his lack of muscle on the topline and his big belly is simply due to too little exercise and too many groceries?
Also, I think many people may be comparing him conformationally to a stock horse, or any other domestic breed for that matter. When was the last time you saw a mustang that you said to yourself, “Now, THAT is a FINE looking horse!†It’s rare, if ever. Most of them are scrubby, vaguely drafty, with multitudes of conformational deficiencies. Even in the Before photo of this horse, he clearly has a very prominent backbone, even though he’s obviously severely underweight. If you imagine the fat back on, it’s easy to see that he might be one of those “bony backed†horses. I simply don’t see the After photo of this horse being as horrible as some people on here think it is. I think he’s a mustang, he’s never going to be great conformationally, and especially if he’s “retired†and not being exercised.
I am really not into the whole dispute thing – just offering my suggestions as something else to think about. Jerry did what I (and many others) couldn’t and gave this mustang a home.
Looks like GFAS may get some competition from others wanting to get involved in overseeing rescues and preventing train wrecks…
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100217/NEWS01/2170385/-1/rss
The more the merrier, as far as I’m concerned. We need the oversight! The less secrecy the better.
You may want to actually read that bill. All the members of that board will be picked from areas of AG Department and horse industry supporters and not anyone related to horse welfare issues. When you do do your research you will find that those entities are all pro horse slaughter except for one, which hasn’t replied to that question posed as of yet.
The Kentucky Horse Council is the worst of them all, they recently teamed up with the AG Department in the state of Kentucky.
When a KY rescue requested a grant through their SOHO program to help feed a large number of horses they received from a KY neglect case, they were not only denied that grant but also advised to “get rid of those horses quickly by any means posssible” to keep their costs down.
To think actions/suggestions like that are in the best interest of horse welfare is hideous.
In order to truly assess a horse based on the Hennecke scale, one has to be able to phyically lay their hands on that horse.
Judging just from the blown up picture posted earlier in this thread Voodoo is not a four.
If Jerry thought keeping quiet about Voodoo for so long would let people forget about Voodoo’s existance and questions would not be raised, he was wrong. Instead he could have been transparent as everyone else is always expected to be. If there is/was a problem with Voodoo it would have not killed Jerry to let the public know, considering the fact that many donated funds were sent to him to pay for his trip to NE.
Oh, look, I googled you and you work with Mountain View Rescue. When people do not like the answers I give them, they often call their buddies for backup. There has been no cover up here, the horse is fine, he’s been fine, and the picture does not show otherwise.
FHOTD wrote: Oh, look, I googled you and you work with Mountain View Rescue.
So much for anonymity, then.
FHOTD wrote: When people do not like the answers I give them, they often call their buddies for backup.
This is the pot calling the kettle black. When you respond to a comment on this blog, you have a large number of commentators who can be relied upon to back you up. Do you want to deny other people the same comfort you yourself have?
There is another way to read the situation, equally plausible: Mountain View Rescue disagreed with you and asked a friend for a reality check: “look at this link, does this horse look healthy to you?” Friend looks at the link, agrees with Mountain View Rescue that he doesn’t look healthy and independently decides to post an opinion. Just as those of the commentators that agree with you are no doubt posting their own independent opinions. No conspiracy theories need apply.
FHOTD wrote: There has been no cover up here, the horse is fine, he’s been fine, and the picture does not show otherwise.
This could be an example of the sorts of things that happen when a rescue lacks the transparency you advocate.
In a large herd situation, it’s human nature to pick out one or two charismatic individuals to focus on as symbolic of the plight of the rest. VooDoo is no more nor less deserving than all the rest but he was singled out, due in part to Jerry’s own reporting. It’s only natural for people to want to know the rest of the story and to expect, that since he went to a rescue that many people donated to in order to help, that there would be ongoing reports as to his recovery and ongoing health.
When people don’t know, they start to speculate. It’s much easier to be transparent than it is to answer the speculation once it starts.
I don’t call people to back me up. They are here already and respond. Annie Lou Ky is not a regular poster here. She appeared only to back up Mt. View.
HfH is completely transparent as far as I can see. I’m sure you’re going to write 20 more posts about what you think they are hiding, but I don’t see it so feel free to continue writing the same thing – I’m probably going to quit bothering to disagree with it now that I’ve stated my opinion.