How Not to Long-Line or Longe
Feb 09 2010
And now they are free on Craigslist. NO! REALLY? I can’t imagine they’re not worth a million, zillion dollars after all the high quality training shown in your video. Â Talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing ALL THE TIME!
My head hurts.
123 comments to “How Not to Long-Line or Longe”
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Holy crap. What a bunch of retards. Being totally serious, my head DOES hurt after watching that. Wow. Just wow.
Ohmygod. I just threw up in my mouth a little. What the HELL is she doing with that poor horse??? Did she really put a bucking strap on it and expect it to NOT buck??? I’m confused… I think my brain is bleeding.
I wondering if that’s actually a bucking strap, or if she’s just an idiot and put a common surcingle in the (REALLY) wrong place?
What… did… I just watch…? “Please take my sweet lovely beautiful horses, heres a video of them bucking and kicking and me demonstrating how expertly I have worked with and trained them”
I’m with you princessjess… my brain is bleeding as well.
Too bad they are too far away, I would take the gelding out of there in a heartbeat. I have a really big soft spot for trouble horses, especially horses that are trouble because of the stupidity of others. My last trouble horse was 22 years old and 2 grossly obese girls were riding her double bareback… and to top it off she was barely 14hh. Any time anybody got on her she would rear like crazy, spin, or buck if all else failed. After I had her for 4 years, she went to a 14 year old who used her for gaming
Wait, what the hell was she trying to do?!?!?!?!
What’s the point of a rear longe line/bucking strap?
And I couldn’t tell if she was hitting them with the whip, either- by their reactions, I suspect she may have.
I have NEVER seen any horse act up on the longe line like that, something must have gone seriously wrong in their training- I’m guessing they were pushed too far too fast by a moron who didn’t/doesn’t know what they’re doing. There’s definitely something psychological going on, those horses are terrified of being longed and don’t know what is expected of them.
And how can they expect the horses to focus on or learn anything when they’re in the pasture with their buddies?
Even in the segment next to another paddock, the horses on the other side of the fence are like, “What the hell is wrong with you?”
Clean Stalls
I have seen a horse act up on a lunge like that. My gelding LOVES to buck, and he is really good at it. I never work him without gloves after stupidly forgetting them and ending up with some really nasty rope burns. As a 3 & 4 year old when I was getting him adjusted to the idea of wearing a saddle he would really let it rip, although I think it was also do to being locked up in a small dry lot for a month as the snow drifts grounded out all of our pasture fences. He is much happier having room to run. He is much better now as a 5 year old and did not even give the trainer much trouble when she started his under saddle training as a 4 year old, however I will always have to be alert for his bucking he just enjoys it way to much. We have spent a lot of time reinforcing one rein stops, disengaging his rear, sitting very deep in the saddle, and always paying very close attention to him while riding. Eventually he will be better but it is not worth the pain to be distracted.
I however would never have put a bucking strap on my gelding. Why would you??? Besides if he can catch 5-6 feet of air under his belly going straight up without one why would you ever promote it, and he is only 15-2.
I understand a few seconds of bucking and farting, but that doesn’t seem to apply to these horses. The fact that they do have large turnout means that they have no excuse to be acting that way if it were just due to lack of turnout.
Yeah, I had a quarter horse mare that would buck like that when longeing (and when under saddle) – but she would eventually quit, and it wasn’t the frenetic, frightened bucking those horses were doing. Those weren’t “high spirits” bucks, those were “I’m scared and I don’t know what to do” bucks.
Apparently someone already took the mare – out of sympathy, I assume.
Wait. Is she specifically teaching them to do that? If so… WTF, why? If not… WTF, why did she film it?
That’s just what they need — someone to put a bucking strap on them and teach them how to buck. So now, every time something bothers them they buck. That will make sure they get a good home. Just like those poor horses some idiot decides to teach to rear.
Sigh. We need better classes of idiots around here.
Agreed! I sent my colt to a trainer who 60 days later told me he was broke with a bucking strap….that is the WORST thing that could have ever happened. I removed him from the facility the same day. I usually break and train my youngsters myself, but at this time I was overloaded with work and felt it would be appropriate to send him out rather than leave him sit. This stable had references galore and show & win all over the country on the circuit. I thought I was doing a good thing for my colt, but instead wound up with a now 5 yr old that KNOWS how to buck, and trust me he will not quit until his mission is accomplished.
Its quite discouraging to have to try and fix my now ruined horse, unfortunately he bucks out of fear and despises men 
In my opinion a bucking strap teaches a horse to buck….it does NOT take the buck out of them. This video really angered me.
That’s a shame – an ignorant someone has been watching too much RFD-TV or Clinton Anderson videos and applying their own interpretation…
I agree, very BAD interpretation of Clinton Anderson. I’m a Clinton fan and I’ve never seen him do this crap. In fact, he allows a horse a one-time, get out of jail free card, to buck the first time it’s cinched up. After that he teaches that if you allow that bad behavior you could end up with one of those who thinks it’s OK to buck every time the tack is thrown on.
My theory exactly, you don’t encourage something you don’t want them doing.
Umm… She’s using that video to try to convince someone to take her free horses? I can’t think of any reason why you’d do that, unless you are deliberately trying to make people feel sorry enough for the horses to adopt them.
And… What the hell was she doing to them to make them buck like that? That was ridiculous. I guess she had a bucking strap on one — I wondered what that thing was — but what about the others? Was she hitting them with the whip? She definitely wasn’t giving them enough line — maybe she was leaving the whip in the way of their legs, which was causing them to buck and hop to try to get away from it.
were i that horse, i would have run away too ..
@ CleanStalls
I have seen a horse act like that on a lunge line .. we were at a daycamp at my equestrian centre and as we were in an arena a woman was trying to lunge her mare, who is newly brought here and still being taught out of her bad habits from her previous owner.
She couldn’t take her eyes off the horses and would buck everytime she had to turn her back to them.
OT, but Need Help Outing a TB Farm Funneling Horses to Mexican Rodeo
Cathy, hopefully you will see this, because it really needs your research and outing skills to nail this farm. The short version of the long story is that a well-known local So Cal TB farm is culling some very well bred young stock to some very shady characters, who openly admit to being selling the horses to Mexico for the rodeos. Before they go to Mexico, they spend their days tied up to things like roof rafters and hot walkers all day, just tied without food or water for the entire day.
I went to this guys house today to see a filly that was advertised on Craigslist- she’s 3 years old, but barely, and was culled a few months ago before starting race training. This Mexican cowboy got her, broke her (all three hundred pounds of him versus her maybe 700), and is trying to sell her, and if he doesn’t, will send her to Mexico. I went looking for a project, and this filly certainly is one- she’s severely underweight (easily fixable), has been obviously abused (again, fixable) but her feet are a god-awful mess (fixable to an extent, I think) and as a result of both the terrible feet and bad conformation, she’s very down in the pasterns of all four legs. I do think some of her dropped pasterns are fixable with good shoeing and turnout, but I can’t see them coming back up all the way, and as a result I don’t she’ll ever be able to be much more than a pasture puff.
The other TB there (and there are many other horses there, including several babies this guy breeds specifically for the rodeos) is a yearling colt that just came from the TB farm a few weeks ago, and as a result is still in really good shape. He’s a beautiful horse, amazing suspension in his trot, and has beautiful straight legs, and no obvious conformation flaws, is halter broke and very sweet. I found his breeder information on the farms website, and no surprise, they are also well known business people in LA, who haven’t been shy about advertising their wonderful TB stock on lots of websites.
I’m actively trying to find a way of helping them both, getting them out of the situation they are in. The bigger problem is the TB farm that is actively funneling these young horses to really, really bad lives- a bullet would have been far kinder than the situation they are in. I don’t want to out the breeder of the colt and the farm until I’ve gotten the two horses out of their current situation, but they need to be outed, big time.
Thank you in advance. The irony here is I wound up with an OTTB from this farm 4 years ago- I knew she was in danger of going somewhere bad at the time, but I never would have guessed a scenario like this.
And the name and location of this farm is?
@ 2:20 “shouldn’t have let her get out that far on the line!”
Yep. Cos that’s the ONLY thing she should be worried about in that vid…
My mind, it boggles…
OMG – what is she trying to achieve! I like the dumping the saddle – she obviously went to the school of ‘not doing your girth up’ as well as the ‘how not to lunge or start a horse’ school. At least she isn’t trying to keep them and they have the opportunityto be upgraded.
I was waiting for one of those poor things to make a beeline for her and hit her like a trainwreck. God knows she longed them close enough to her and on a tight enough line that the horses would’ve had ample opportunity to break her legs.
I’ve seen some trainers use a bucking strap in a similar fashion, but they would always wait for the horse to get the buck out of its system and then loosen the strap. I don’t think this girl ever let the pressure off.
I love the half finished death trap she’s “working ” the other horse in. Never! Moron Alert!
I have never seen anyone use a surcingle in the flank area to lunge a horse. All that girl is doing is teaching it to buck. That other horse acts afraid of her. That is the exact kind of loser training that sends horses to auction.
my head hurts now.
Wow! I wouldn’t get close enough to that crazy person to hold a video camera.
Question: With the second horse who was rearing, what should she have done?
It was pretty clear with the first horse, however, that she doesn’t know what she’s doing.
And I thought I was going to see a gory, messy accident with the third pony. Ugh, ruined my morning.
If a horse is rearing it’s because it doesn’t want to go forward. That horse didn’t want to go forward because it was afraid to go past her, probably because he was afraid of what she was doing to him. When you’re teaching a horse to longe, they need to be comfortable with a person at their flank, which is an unnatural position for a horse (they are prey animals and we are predators. Their flank is vulnerable), and that’s why many of them try to turn and face their handlers. It takes patience to teach a horse to walk around its handler…..and yes, it should walk. Longing is a training tool to help the horse understand word commands, gain fundamental balance, and introduce new elements, such as tack. It bothers me greatly when people just chase a horse on the end of a longe line.
thank you! that is good to know
Here is the really scary part, that chick is ‘teaching’ someone else how to kill themselves and their horse. (And I use ‘teach’ lightly)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOwRt6xohs4
The down side to expos and youtube training how-to videos…. Yes; you can learn from them but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to fork up some money for professional help too.
That girl is a sicko, couldn’t watch the whole thing. She needs a good whipping.
What do you all think of this ad?
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/grd/1594168649.html
Wow….what a jackass….the 6’2″ moron sitting on the shetland pony, to be more specific
That is the shittiest (no pun intended) arena footing I have ever seen. Not only do they like to totally confuse their horses about appropriate behavior on a lunge line, but they like to add obstacles, too! “Okay Lightning, I’m going to need you to buck, hop, buck, blast through this mountain of shavings/manure mix, stumble a little to accentuate the footing changes, leap, and then a final buck!”
OH MY LORD!!!! I have never seen anyone do a better job of teaching their horses to buck and be dog food. That was INSANE!! OW! My eyes and my head hurts.
OMG…..are they “long-lining” from a BUCKING STRAP????? WTH is wrong with people?
I hope someone gets those horses away from her. I saw that someone posted that the pony was already taken. Thank goodness. The horse doesn’t look, bad, either…..like he’d be a nice little project for someone, if someone just took the time to train him right. People really are stupid.
Umm, well, that is why they invented a longing surcingle. Maybe someone should suggest to her that a strap around the horse’s girth might work a little better than one around super-sensitive flank and belly areas?
Twit.
if i couldnt do no better than that i sure wouldnt post it..what the hell is she doing??
OK, I’ve never had horses but would like to someday when I can afford both horses and riding lessons. I love this blog because I’m learning so much on proper horse ownership.
I’m glad that someone else said that looked like a bucking strap on the horse early in the video. I thought that looked like standard rodeo equipment, but I wasn’t sure. Can anyone talk a bit about why the horses were reacting so badly…is there something wrong in her whole longing style, the way she was handling horse/rein/whip?
Hillia,
The short answer to your question is that the horse is reacting badly because she doesn’t know what in the h-ll she is doing!
I know that’s not very helpful – so go look at youtube and search on “lunge horse”. There are some halfway decent videos out there that show someone using the proper equipment, on good footing, and the horse behaving as it should. Once you look at a few of those you should be able to take a look at this person and understand why everyone is pounding their heads against their desks after watching it.
As for the bucking strap or whatever she’s got on the horse – one rule in horse keeping is that you try not to deliberately (or accidentally) teach the horse to do bad things. When you’re breaking a horse to ride, a good trainer will do everything in his/her power not to let the horse buck because having that happen puts evil thoughts into its head – a really smart horse will then figure out that if it bucks, it can unseat the rider – and once it knows that, you’ve got a mess on your hands. So the idea of deliberately doing something to teach the horse to buck is stupid, stupid, stupid.
Hope that helps. You’ve got a great attitude about learning – keep it up!
As a green rider on a green horse, who happens to be very smart and very lazy… yes. When the horse learns to buck to get out of work, you ahve a huge mess on your hands. However, I will note- I have a MUCH more secure seat now, and I am also working with a competent trainer.
I would suggest for you to take riding lessons- you can usually find lessons with a decent instructor for 30-40 bucks per lesson. Even if you can only do one lesson a month, it’s so fun, and a good way to start. I took lessons and found a cheap half-lease on an old been there, done that horse, so I could practice what I learned in my lesson every week.
All the horses bucking in that video did so in a natural reaction to being ‘pinched’. The second horse with the blaze reacted like that because he had never been saddled before. If saddled and then told to ‘go’, horses react instinctively to the feel of pressure around their middle– they buck to dislodge the ‘cougar’, or whatever other predator might have suddenly latched on to their back and shoulders. It’s instinct, and you avoid it by saddling your young horses slowly, and letting them stand quietly to adjust to the feel of a saddle on their back. It’s wrong to think that you simply ‘keep the cinch loose’ on a young horse like that– as soon as he tenses, the saddle cinch pinches, and it becomes a nasty cycle. He needed a lot more time to get used to the weight and pressure before being told to go lunge.
The pony mare with the ‘bucking strap’ rig that she decided to use (I can’t even begin to tell you how potentially dangerous her rig was) was bucking because of pressure from the strap. Her reaction comes from the pinching of the fine nerves that run in front of a horse’s flanks on each side and under the belly toward the back of a horse. If you pinch those nerves, any horse will buck. Period. I’ve watched kids thrown from dead broke ranch horses before, because the kids tightened their rear cinch and never tied it forward– it slips back, and you have instant rodeo. I don’t know what idiot told her that desensitizing needed to be done like that, but frankly I consider her actions with the pony to simply be cruel– horses buck because it hurts to have that nerve pinched. Once again, it’s instinctive, and easily avoidable if you just TAKE TIME.
Years ago, horse whisperers were considered amazing because they were able to complete training in a short amount of time, and end with a quiet relaxed horse. Needless to say, the good ones didn’t rush the horse– they won by knowing how fast was too fast, and not going there. I’d say this young girl is still in the EPic Fail category when it comes to taking her time with her horses.
I actually sometimes use the rope-around-the-flank (I don’t use a bucking strap like that crazy lady is using…it’s literally just another lunge line, looped around the flank, not a real bucking strap) in training sometimes, but only if the horses are ready (meaning, if it was one of my horses, they wouldn’t be squealing and jumping around like that…) The point of it is to just desensitize their flanks. If they buck, you keep on the pressure, till they stop. When they stop, you release. It’s not like you just yank the strap and hold on — you work up to it. Which is something this lady didn’t do.
Just more proof that behind every badly trained horse there is a stupid human…
Oh my gosh! This person is about th worst of the worst. Not only was she being abusive in her training- the horses reactions are plain that they have been abused. The horses have no idea what is being asked of them- their living conditions are horrible (at least they look like they are getting fed regularly). But what is up with NASTY looking barbed wire, uncapped T posts, and having vehicles in a pasture with fear crazed horse with the doors open no less! Those horses were slipping and slidding like crazy in that pasture- I am surprised that one of them doesn’t have wicked crazy wounds from the wire and posts! Honestly that makes me sick. And she blatently doesn’t think anything is wrong with how she is behaving. Let’s hope she doesn’t ever increase the population from her gene pool.
Lunging a horse in the crapo paddock with mud and mounds of dirt shows how stupid these owners are! Even if I had a horse that knew how to lunge and did not buck or act up I still would not lunge them in a situation where they could easily get hurt.
Apparently this chick has watched one to many episodes of some natural horsemanship trainers where they use the “bucking strap”. The only difference is that they know how much pressure to apply and when to easy up. They are also working the horse in a round pen with good footing and have experience doing this.
The icing on the cake was seeing that gawd awful fencing at the end……uncapped T posts with mangled barbwire…NICE!!
I know these horses will find homes…..since they put up this video people will want to help save these poor horses!
So was the bucking strap supposed to simulate a rear cinch? That would be my only guess… and why not use a surcingle in the first place! Worry about the rear cinch later (or desensitize him properly in the first place), if you happen to have a horse that is going into a discipline where it is needed! Have they never seen the placement of a bucking strap at a rodeo, or heard that called abuse? C’mon people… open your eyes.
I’m guessing this chick also calls herself a TRAINER?
Amazing. Sad. Disgusting. Poor ponies.
Hillia- those horses were reacting badly partly because of the equipment. I’m using an educated guess and betting the saddle didn’t fit either horse, and the rope around the groin functioned as a bucking strap (don’t know if they ment for that to happen, or if it started as a girth and slipped?). The handler is using the whip in a totally inappropriate way, with horrendous timing (is she actually hitting the horse? I can’t tell). She is not placing herself in relation to the horse to properly ask the horse to move forward, or reverse… there is nothing AT ALL correct in this video! Top the bay pony video off with loose horses, crummy footing, and shady fencing in an open pasture.
*headdesk*
I think someone needs to inform her that rear cinches don’t go up in your horse’s junk then… if I had a rope around my teats or sheath, I’d throw an unholy fit too!
OMG her youtube channel is the reason why Fugly is here today- I swear! The grey with the white face in the featured video is horse that has previously been abused and neglected! And this is how she treats him! How about the “Four Year old on Four Year old TWH” video- *headdesk* Somedays it makes me want to sterilize myself and stick with my one child and my one horse. My horse and daughter are the same age too- but you won’t see me putting my daughter up on my horse’s back without (1) protective gear (2) someone at the horses head (3) someone holding my daughter. I will admit that it has happened twice before with the above 3 requirements in place and it was only for about 15 seconds. My horse couldn’t have cared less and was very calm with a soft eye through out. And even then I admit it probably wasn’t the best idea which is why she isn’t going to get to ride her again for quite some time. Luckily my horse loves my daughter and someday _SOMEDAY_ when they both are ready they will make an awesome team- but that day is far in the future with lots of developement ahead for both of them.
Why do people have to push babies? In my opinion a 4 year old child should NEVER ride alone- and if they do it should be some 30 year old dead broke horse that won’t move faster than a slow walk- A 4 year old is not going to have the strength or the experience to handle a horse that spooks, or acts up. But I digress and Fugly has said all this before- Somedays humanity just makes me sad.
There is a method of teaching horses not to buck that involves a rear lead line or more commonly, a lariat. It requires little pressure and perfectly timed release. You can teach a horse to completely give to pressure and lead by the flank that way. However, it’s one of those techniques that has to be learned under supervision of a master horseman. Most people on the planet don’t qualify…
This girl looks like she is going to ruin alot of horses.
For the record, I thought she was attempting the Chris Cox method to help a bucking horse quit bucking…
-He loops a rope around their flank (he uses a rope that will also release when pressure or the pulling is taken off, he does not tie the rope on, nor does he loop the rope in it’s self where is can stick…)
-The horse bucks like mad usually (he only does this with problem buckers it’s not a usual training step)
-As soon as the horse stops Chris Cox releases pressure on the rope. Its very effect and works great when done correctly…
So either way if she was trying to use this method she really sucked at it!
More about Chris Cox can be found on his website:
Chris Cox Horsemanship Company
http://www.chris-cox.com/
Please, in order to get the entire idea behind his training method for bucking horses you must look further into it, I just gave a quick idea if what he does but I know it doesn’t do it any justice. =)
I HAVE seen the the lunging with a bucking strap before. Anyone care to take a guess where?? Wait for it… yup RFD-TV! It’s a technique I’ve seen Dennis Reis use many times. Looks like she is just another Really F-ing Dumb certified “trainer”. Way to go guys, thanks for putting that out there for little miss “I lunge my wild beastie near barbed wire” yet another useful skill.
*sigh* And this is why I make fun of their channel.
I’m sure when done by a true proffessional the method can be effective, but when attempted by Backyard Betty… Total Fail.
Stupid isn’t even an excuse for this moronic episode of cruel and beyond .
I can’t even think of a word to describe this catastrophe! POOR HORSE!
So the crack head’s du jour have just taught their pony that bucking will get them out of what ever is irritating/scaring them. The gelding looked terrified of the gal that was lunging him.
My brain implodes at the stupidity of people on teh interwebz.
WTF. I’m possibly the least horse experienced person on this board – but even I can see what a wreck she’s making. Leaving aside the footing, bucking strap, whip, and general behavior problems for a moment, isn’t that an awfully short lunge line? Or is it normal to start training a horse to lunge on that short a rope?
No, it’s not, but in recently years the NH people have all been longeing them on what is essentially a long lead rope. I don’t like it one bit. The horse is too close to you and you can easily get kicked, and the smaller circle isn’t good for their legs or neck.
The longer lead line used in REAL NH is not meant to make horses do circles. When I say “real” I mean proven methods by reputable horsemen and women. I realize reputable is subjective. To me it means someone who doesn’t play games, doesn’t cause harm or fear, and consistently ends up with nicely finished horses ready to do any job with confidence.
Don’t hate the long lead line, hate the stupid horse people on the other end who don’t know what they are doing.
Lisa, The Odd Farm
Good example of pushing a horse over the edge. Not nice.
reminds me of a quote “Where knowledge ends, abuse begins”
Yes, the girl does claim to be a trainer and a rescuer. She claims the pony went to a rescue home (in mexico I’m guessing) for FREE!! I just had to comment on her YouTube video. I am sick to death of seeing this kind of crap and reading stupid ads on Craig’s List. I am going to a Chris Cox Clinic next month. I have ridden with him several times and she didn’t look anything like him
Maybe she should sign up for one, too.
All you can really say about this is WTF.
When I learned to lunge, I watched people who knew what they were doing, and I took an hour-long lungeing lesson, and I practiced on the old horse I was leasing before I ever tried to lunge my younger mare. Obviously, this chick did none of those things. What is really ironic to me was the one point where the pony was actually lungeine okay, she was like “Oh, I better shorten my rope and swing my whip at it!” and the pony went berserck, bucling the saddle off…??? I actually can’t believe that horse didn’t seriously hurt itself. I mean, come on, I make beginner mistakes, but that is just beyond a “mistake.”
I have broke several young horses, and if gentled correctly, they usually only buck between the 3rd and 5th day (riding). I have never had a horse buck like that grey – or whatever color du jour he is. I have had a few buck like crazy on the first day of lungeing, just to test me – I guess. Gee, the horse industry is just not getting better for the horses, is it??
Yeah. They either decide to give you some drama around rides 3-5 or it never happens. In more cases than not, they never even do it. I kept waiting for it with the VLC and he never did it. Still hasn’t, almost 2 years later now.
I’ve had horses who like to play hard on the longe but they are playing – totally different than these horses where you can see how angry and scared they are.
Yeah, my boy Zorro thinks that the lunge line is actually a merry-go-round.
Exactly. My mare will buck and fart at first, or even if she’s being naughty, she might gallop around like a bat out of hell instead of cantering. That’s where direction changes and yileding the hindquarters comes into play…
These horses are bucking b/c “OMIGOD WTF IS ON ME GETITOFF!!!!!”
There is a difference between playing, being naughty, and wigging right the fuck out. If you can’t tell the difference, you shouldn’t be “training” a horse.
Haha, yeah, Zorro the Paso Fino has a lot of energy, but he knows not to go unless I tell him to. So when I ask him to move forward on the lunge line, he often takes off at a gallop! Bucking and farting usually occurs.
I let him pick the pace, as long as he keeps moving forward, and I usually lunge him (switching directions every 30 seconds or so) until he’s relaxed at fast walk or slow gait. Only then do I dare get in the saddle! I can’t imagine trying to ride that inital stink off of him!
Exactly – even a horse indulging in some naughty shenanigans (when I first got my mare we were BOTH too green for each other, and her favorite game was “let’s see how far we can jerk Kookaburra off her feet”) doesn’t behave like this. These horses are terrified.
The bucking horse, wow, I have never seen a horse lunged with that kind of equipment before. I’m glad some of you commented on what it was perhaps supposed to be accomplishing because otherwise I’d have had no idea other than to make her horse into a rodeo champ. As for the rearing horse, no wonder he was freaking scared. Good grief how about teaching your horse what you expect of him before you get the whip out and start cracking it like a crazed lion tamer. I can’t remember when the last time I had to actually crack a lunge whip was. Even if she wasn’t hitting her horse it was still way way way too much force. Poor guys, I hope they both somehow survive this travesty of “training.” I’ve never seen RFD-TV and now I’m thinking perhaps that is a good thing.
RFD-TV: Really F-ing Dumb – TV.
I couldn’t help myself…
That is what we all call it here!
Depends on what you watch, I saw an awesome Hilda Gurney clinic on RFDTV
ROFL! OMG so true! Unfortunately my best friend watches that channel more than she should >.< While sometimes they do have something informational on about 99.9% of it is crap!
Wait a sec, thats not actually its real name? I (hah ha, dumb me)
Also, that posting about the So Cal TB farm selling them to Mexican rodeos needs to be outed. This is a travesty. Mexican Rodeos need to be stopped. I was sad to see Mexican cowboys in the Rose parade & the female MC going on and on about the grand tradition of Mexican caballeros blah blah blah, I wanted to enlighten her.
Oh me too!! She made them seem like such grand trainers! So much ignorance spreading ignorance. So sad.
Yeah, how bout it?! They have those type of rodeos here too, and they always hide behind their “culture”…cruelty always hides behind “culture”. It’s against the LAW here whether it’s rodeos or pitbulls or cockfighting, or any of a dozen other nationalities that call it “culture” to brutally maim and kill animals. Still no one stops it, even though it isn’t OUR culture. I say if they don’t like our laws here then GO HOME. AND DON’T SHOW THESE IDIOTS IN PARADES! STOP SHOWING BULLFIGHT BLOOPERS AND NORMALIZING IT!
I honestly thought the idiot with the bucking horses was teaching them to be rodeo buckers at first glance! I never did anything that bad my first time lunging a horse! We all have to start somewhere but that’s just a nut!
i visited her website, and could not help leaving a message about her child on a 4 year old, walking on concrete, and no helmet. i just don’t understand people’s lack of ability to see what could happen…..
sorry, i worded that wrong. i followed the link to youtube where she has more videos. one includes her kid on a 4 year old. that’s where the comment went. sorry. my bad.
she is lunging the horse with a leadline he cant even put his head down, poopr girl needs somone with direction to help her
Ok wow this lady is an idiot. I had a gelding that would buck for the first 30 seconds of lounging because he felt good (and that was it and honestly they were more crowhops) But honestly. That horse was SCARED out of it witts. And its disgusting that she calls herself a trainer.
And the fact that she laughed at the fact that the horse fell and lost the saddle. Wow she was lucky that the horse didnt end up with a serious injury.
Here’s an email from Angela Lind, the woman creating hell for horses on the lunge line. She’s disabled comments on that YouTube vid. However, she has several vids. 1) She claims to be a rescue; and 2) she’s pulling children into this mess. She has vids of her activities posted. Seriously, both the SPCA and CPS need a phone call.
Whoever predicted someone would take that pony to rescue it from her, was right!
“Trainer’s” email below:
from Angela Lind
date Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:05 AM
subject Re: !!!
mailed-by yahoo.com
signed-by yahoo.com
hide details 9:05 AM (2 hours ago)
That pony was 12- and suppose to be broke- it’s called a flank strap and it tells me what a horse is like under western saddle. MOST BROKE horses wont buck at a flank strap. Notice the saddle had the rear cinch removed to give the pony a chance to show itself to be a decent mount? The pony was not whipped- just because Im holding one- your ridiculous- That pony was purchased as a safe saddle pony- the owner thought it would be wise to have me look at it- Now the pony is retired at a local rescue. These horses were saved- the next step was the kill buyers- now they have forever homes. Videos were ment scare off the silly people that just wanted a FREE horse and not a project for life.
it’s called a flank strap and it tells me what a horse is like under western saddle. MOST BROKE horses wont buck at a flank strap.
Why doesn’t she just put a Western saddle on the horse to find out??
I don’t know western saddles much but are there some that have a back cinch at the hip? That’s insane.
Just FYI or for hers, LOL The flank strap doesnt tighten around the horses flank and generally arent kept tight enough that the horse can feel them…..if they are used at all. They are hard to come by these days, since not a lot of people use them anymore. Maybe you should email her that!!!!
Robin, on western saddles there are back straps that sit by the flanks. they are not tight by no means and are there for reasons im not sure of. i never rode with them. my trainer was very against the use of them for fear if the horse was to freak out it would get its leg caught. Im new tothe blog and just thought i would tell you what i know about those back straps.
Western saddles used for roping or for riding in very mountainous terrain often have rear cinches or back cinches. These MUST rest in front of the horse’s flanks, for the reasons so eloquently demonstrated in the video– even quiet broke horses will buck like crazy if pinched at their flanks with a strap. I don’t know of any good ropers who don’t tie their back cinch to their front cinch, to prevent it sliding back. It’s standard procedure. The point of the extra cinch is to make sure the saddle doesn’t flip forward when used for roping cattle, or when going down a steep hill.
To be honest, I’ve seen rear cinches abused or misused several times– there is NO good use for one on any saddle I ride in, or my students ride in. Even my roping saddle has it’s rear cinch removed, and gently stored until such time as my saddle is once again used for roping.
Wow.so many things wrong in this video its hard to list them all. It looks like she is using a lead line on some parts of the video. Poor horses. I cheered for the pony in the end, I just wish the saddle would have landed on the owner.
So that ad was actually real? I saw it when posted, clicked the link and figured it was a joke when I saw the title and first couple seconds of vid – that someone had linked to a compilation of terrible horse interaction but wasn’t actually the owner/perpetrator. But the comment above re: mare being gone already suggests it was for real? Wow. I didn’t think lowly enough of the horse world, I guess.
(Though overall, from the look of a lot of the Austin ads, there seem to be a better percentage of well trained, using horses – at decent 4 figure prices – there than a lot of the other craigslist sets. MI is full of freebies/dirt cheapies busily tempting people who have no business taking on a horse.)
She found the delete button for the comments so y’all start flaggin that video, y’hear? Don’t want anyone thinking that this bullshit’s actually a GOOD idea.
OK…………………………….Hold on Im trying to wrap my head around what I just watched so give me a second………………………………………………………….
OK So in the first video is the rope tied around the ponies flank also tied to the ground? What are they trying to accomplish by putting it there, did it slip? Is he a little people rodeo pony in training? I am so thrown by this portion of video I can barely speak.
The paint fugly thing….No, he isnt a bad boy!! Some one beat the shit out of him and now he is terrified of the whip. Is it wrong I wanted him the strike the chick down then run through the crappy fencing??
The third little pony is so cute and I want to snuggle him…even more so when he smartens up and whips away to freedom!! I have a soft spot for little fat bay ponies that are rule breakers
I cheered….outloud….it was a little embarrasing!
This isn’t training, schooling, longeing or anything else. It is just stupid and dangerous bs. It will take a good bit of work and patience to undo this. Shakes head…..
I believe that person was trying to desensitize the horse to the rear cinch of a western saddle so the horse won’t react by bucking later while being ridden. A good Idea and a lot of western trainers do it, but in this case doing it wrong! She probably watched another trainer do it.
More to the point I see so much wrong with safty in these so called training sessions with “backyard trainers” and that’s why they turn so ugly so quickly. If you can’t do your “training” or anything with a horse but especially a young green one in a controlled environment, it’s time to work on your environment before your training. A safley fenced area or round pen away from other loose horses would be a start.
A green horseowning friend tied her Arab to a 10ft tube pasture fence gate to saddle him while the other horse was loose. You guessed it. Picture a little scared shitless Arab flying across the pasture with that huge gate flying after him bouncing off the ground and the horse finally getting getting caught in it and frozen with fear!! What was amazing was that poor little guy didn’t sustain any broken bones!! Oye vey!
She now has cross ties in the barn and the barnyard fenced in.
Whatever happened to taking the time to work with the horse and gain its trust before even asking it to work on a longe? As far as im concerned, i would still be working these horses on ground manners and handling issues.
I think the little brown guy is adorable..
my 2 cents
I feel bad for those horses.
Our two horses don’t know what they’re supposed to do on a lunge line. So their reaction is to run at a full gallop for awhile, then slowing to a canter, then down to a trot. Our mare, Birdie, refuses to go to the left, will only go to the right.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the strength to lunge the gelding. The mare isn’t as bad at pulling. I want to teach them what lunging is about but I just can’t do it with the gelding. I think previous owners used it as a punishment for him. With the mare, maybe in a past life she was put on a horse walker and only went in one direction? Who knows.
But even me with my limited knowledge of lunging knows that what she’s doing is wrong and damaging to the horse.
You might want to get an equine chiropracter out to see your mare, (check references on any you call). If she has an alignment problem it could be causing her discomfort to go in a circle in one direction. A “popped” rib can lead to cinchy behavior or bucking too.
IMO The person in the vid should be given a wedgy up over her head and see how she reacts.
For your lunging problems, you might want to check out some material from a trainer like Buck Branaman. His method of teaching ‘lunging’ is all about understanding how to move your horse in a responsive and quiet fashion. If you are able to understand what he is looking for (when I saw him at a clinic he was very descriptive) then you can easily do the training yourself, without all the fireworks that so many of these trainers seem to think is needed. It’s worth looking into– I’ve used that style of training for both broke and unbroke horses, and it’s worked well with all of them.
I’m all for building a tolerance to the pressure of anything on the belly, from a properly placed flank cinch to a random rope or vine or something that happens to touch the horse in that area. I for sure wouldn’t be doing it with an arrangement that I can’t get off in a big hurry, nor would I be trying a “shock & awe” approach.
The other two — those are some expensive saddles they’re trying to get destroyed!! And gotta love the totally unsafe surroundings they chose to use. Yikes. Darwin Awards on the way here.
Okay, but I still don’t understand how a rope practically in the horse’s crotch is supposed to simulate a rear cinch? My rear cinch is only a few inches behind my front cinch, not a foot-and-a-half….
” Notice the saddle had the rear cinch removed to give the pony a chance to show itself to be a decent mount?”
That’s right honey, it’s the pony’s fault he wasn’t a “decent mount….”
I know you guys are not big into NH here, but one NH concept I learned… if your horse isn’t doing what you want it to do, 99% of the time it’s the person, not the horse. Person didn’t ask the horse correctly, didn’t follow up correctly, or…. I dunno… yanked its face with a shorter than hell longe-line and then yanked it’s belly around with some stupid flank rope…..
Every time my mare misbehaves…. and she does so with some frequency… I just think “Okay, what is it that I am doing wrong?” She might be acting like a shit, but it is MY responsibility to get her trained, not hers. She’s a HORSE.
Exactly!! Lots of non horsey people think that both my mare and my husbands’ are dangerous just because we have both fallen off and had broken ribs. Both incidents were rider error. In my case my mare spun and took off like a bat out of hell, I panicked, forgot about the emergency stop that the trainer and BO/BM had taught me and made me practice, screamed bloody murder and fell off. MY FAULT TOTALLY! I did all the wrong things so I feel like I got what I deserved. Oh my horse had been bitten by a horse fly which is why she spun in the first place and you know she asked for that to happen!
Oh wow. I’m amazed that the “trainer” didn’t kill either the horses or herself doing this crap. I’ve taught rank 16-17hh OTTB’s to lunge with less drama than this! It’s like a sick joke…how many dumbass stunts can we cram into one video? You’ve got the Arena ‘o Death with Mount Junkmore and other deadly obstacles, the bucking strap, the saddle so poorly fitted to the pony that it flies off, lunging (if you can call it that) in a pasture with a parked truck (doors open to maximize danger, too!), more junk and multiple loose horses, and lunging on way too short a line,. Plus there’s the body language…she’s not keeping a steady centre, and she drives that poor second horse right into the corner – of course he tries to get away! Not to mention yanking their heads around, letting them turn on her…all bad.
I totally get that horses will buck and act up on the lunge…hell, my OTTB gelding does, which is why I lunge him FIRST to let him blow it out. But this is just dangerous.
Sheesh.
It looks like Angela Lind took down that particular vid, though it still works here. Her YouTube name is SkippyTrucking, if you want to see her other craptastic vids.
I saw all the responses to the Angela Lind videos skippytrucking on youtube. She is now on horsecity.com as buckbreaker giving advice to everyone as a trainer.
WOW just WOW. i hope all those horse got a upgrade.
my 3 yr old gelding still bucks and rears when you loung him. the only time he’s not like that is when you free loung him and then you play hell gettin him to stop some days, but now i dont have a round pin to work him in any more. so now we just saddle up and go he does fine with doin that but there are some days i cant do any ridding and i do have a loung line but he dont realy loung on it for anyone. anyone got a idea how to fix that? cuz i have no idea what to do about it.
That is ridiculous. What IS that? I mean, I guess the flank rope thing could help for horses who are sensitive about that area, or for horses who like to buck, but it just seems like there are better ways… I mean, I COULD longe my horse with ONLY a flank rope (she’ll stick around longeing at liberty in an arena or open field), but why would I want to? Just seems unnecessary and leaves too many options open for your horse getting tangled up in the rope and dragging you all over christendom… Where do you find this stuff, Fugs?
I just love this quote from her “Starving, sick, neglected, and auction/slaughter horses- so sad” video –
“Please remember when giving away your horses to do a home visit and visual inspection of the fencing, barn/shelter, and feed. ”
I wonder whether she considers her facilities to be acceptable?
Did anyone else wonder what her hands look like. I ride, play golf and do my own lawn work but I’m pretty sure that would cause me to have some serious blisters and calluses.
LOL! No kidding right?! Funny thing is that exact thought ran through my head… “That’s gotta hurt…”
Perhaps I am confused, I don’t know the back story on this…. HOWEVER with that being said I am concerned by a number of things.
1.) A comment she made says… “Both horses were green or untouched prior.” But the description says, “Many hours of training went into these horses before and after video’s were taken.” … what?
2.) I understand many horses have issues… but I don’t think I’d be posting them on youtube if I was trying to place them, PARTICULARLY since she is saying they are wonderful (at least the gelding) horses now. I am ALL about honesty when selling or placing a horse… you uploading outdated videos of a horse acting neurotic when they are now “very gentle and sweet” and “no longer pulls on a line and is responsive.” seems a bit like throwing yourself and this horses chances of being placed under the bus. *shrug*
The whole thing just baffles me. Why would anyone post this? And if you did a before/after video would be more appropriate…
She has no concept of actions producing consequences. None whatever.
She says she used the bucking strap because the horse is sensitive around the flanks. I’d laugh myself sick, if it wasn’t for the poor horse. And the cinch was loose because he was still sensitive about having it tight.
C’mon, y’all, let’s all get on the Clue Bus and go visit. Oops! Sorry, lady, the gas pedal stuck! Did it hurt? Oh, and that wasn’t a Jersey barrier, but your car? Oh, well!
Disgusted, Ruthie
LOVE the longe line…LOVE the fences (especially the last one where the pony throws the saddle off)…LOVE the girls training skills…my eye is twitching…is this a sign of a stroke???
I had the same reaction and I’m still alive, so I’m fairly sure it’s just a normal reaction to idiocy that crosses the line to cruelty.
This was a recipe for failure from the get go. There is a reason people have round pens. It provides control, and it’s circular to keep them moving. She is just getting drug around and keeps having to pull them around, accomplishing a whole lot of nothing. Honestly, I have only seen horse buck like this, that someone did not take the time to start in a bitting rig, and ground drive.
Jeebus, I really thought she was going to get killed-
She’s written to me using lots of inappropriate “lols” and claiming to be some shit hot trainer with dozens of trophies under her belt. She talks something like The Joker from Batman. I asked her to list her wins and titles so we could be suitably impressed. Her response? “Nyah nyah, I don’t HAVE to.”
Since her ad was on Austin CL, she’s in Texas. She says she used to work for the biggest ranch there. I told her that was really interesting, as I’ve had a couple of King Ranch horses. They weren’t “broken” anything like this. As well, I have a forty year old King Ranch handbook on starting colts quite gently. She starts into, “You don’t know what ranch! You don’t know what state I’m in!” Yeah, that’s because you’ve never “worked” on any ranch—at least not with horses. Maybe you shoveled a few wheelbarrows of cow flop.
She says she “had to test the pony” for what he’d do when the “hobbles” between the front and rear cinches came undone.
Tell me: where do people like this come from? Who would be crazy enough to take a horse to them for training? How is it possible to not know the basic basics of lunging from Pony Club Level C3? Or 4H?
Anyway, keep your eye on SkippyTrucking on YouTube. Funny how she’s disabled comments, and none of her “mile long references” have stepped up.
Ballena Vista Farm, Ramona, CA
I have to keep telling myself that it’s illegal to go over there and beat that broad with her own lunge whip. WTF is she doing? She has a noose or something on that poor pony on its flank. Is that to keep its hips from swinging outward? She claims on Youtube that it was to get the pony used to being handled there. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIght. And then she’s got a video of her “teaching” another girl, who’s trying to get the mare to go forward when her whip is in the wrong hand. “Why won’t she go forward?” Cause you’re cracking a whip in her face moron. Why would anyone post videos of their horses going nuts like that? Does she think she’s good, oh wait, she does. That sound you hear is your brain breaking….
Anyone else check out her other video where she has a tiny dog in a prong collar (WTF?) jump into a truck and “forgets” to release the leash when it jumps? Poor dog looks scared.
Another few examples of people advertising their horses doing the wrong thing ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L414xeuoXx4&feature=related (FF to 1 min 47)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaVrRjjzbXc&feature=related (This chick left PLASTIC CHAIRS in the path of her horse’s circle, so i’m not surprising he reared when she practically ran him into them)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mThY19Wj8RI&feature=related (I’m not surprised her gelding doesn’t listen to her, the way she speaks to him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6x4IP1Q4wg (GOOOOOD ONE! sarcasm.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AuIKS5yQqI&feature=related (No comment .. )
WHAT IS she doing?
Dear lord, what is that Ballena place breeding? Go look at their foals – for as fancy as the place looks, those are some really awful babies.
Poor little roach-backed crooked-legged thing
http://www.ballenavistafarm.com/09foals/nursery_foal_43_09.htm
And why are there some many dropped pasterns?
http://www.ballenavistafarm.com/09foals/nursery_foal_15_09.htm
WTF? is all that comes to mind. of course that poor horse is bucking- I would too if I had some nasty, rough rope tied around me, hurting some very sensitive places (I pray they don’t tie geldings like that). How can that poor horse have intact stifles after all this?
And might I also mention that that is WAY too small of a circle to be working a horse in, no wonder it keeps stopping and coming back into the centre, it’s probably dizzy!
Oh man and the horse being lunged with his saddle on?
Tip number 1- maybe letting the stirrups smack him every time he acts up is actually reinforcing the behaviour, and making him think there is something scary going on?
Tip number 2- don’t whip the poor horse in the face when he comes bolting towards you- its your fault he’s doing it!!! Even the nicest horse will get upset and dangerous if you hurt, confuse and scare him like this woman is!
Oh and I had to laugh at:
“Gee she doesn’t like the rope around the back much.”
“No, they don’t usually…”
Maybe, just maybe, that’s a sign that you shouldn’t do it!
Have you guys clicked on the video to see the comments on YouTube? The girl is actually defending herself LOL she has an excuse for her stupidity . Please everyone go leave your educated comment she needs to know how ridiculous she is.
I am almost thinking this is the infamous Sarah Stetner! hahah That would explain the horrible tactics she is applying to these poor horses. Perhaps she was kicked in the head at one time. It could happen you know.