A Fugly Parable
Feb 08 2010
Once upon a time, there was a very bad priest horse rescuer. Â He She molested children starved and neglected horses, and had been doing that for a long time. Â The victims were afraid unable to speak up and ask for help.
Sometimes, someone with a voice would figure out what was going on, and try to speak up. Â Finally they even got pictures. Lots of pictures. Â Proof positive. Â They were told to be quiet. Â They were told that this was all being handled internally, and it would be taken care of. Â Some were told that it was a confidential matter, and they could not speak out or there would be consequences. Â But mostly they were told that speaking the truth was a bad idea because it would make the entire religion horse rescue community look bad. Â And that would lead to lost donations and bad press and hurt innocent people and probably bring on the Apocalypse.
They were told that Catholics horse rescuers should stick together, not demand that the bad priest horse rescuer be brought to justice. Â And so it came to pass that the situation with the bad priest horse rescuer was hushed up and no charges were brought and the victims were paid off euthanized quietly and the media never got the whole story, nor did any of the parishioners donors. Free of a criminal record, the bad priest rescuer moved to a new state, and continued molesting children starving and neglecting horses.
And no one lived happily ever after, but HEY! we didn’t make our religion horse rescue look bad.
Oh, hell YES, you did.
Consider it a blind item. Â We’ll see who does the right thing here…or not. Â I’ll give ‘em a chance before I reveal who this is about. Â I just hope it’s food for thought for those who say rescues shouldn’t bad mouth other rescues. Â When horses are starving, HELL YES they should! Â It doesn’t make us “gossippy” or “backbiting” or any one of a thousand epithets to report the truth and make sure the law is enforced, no matter who is in violation of it or who they know or how much they cry or how many excuses they have.
211 comments to “A Fugly Parable”
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As far as I’m concerned, once things are that bad at a rescue, it’s not a rescue anymore. Seriously…when the welfare of a horse becomes involved, screw reputations and threats and whatever so-called advice people are giving you, and put the horse first.
Whatever happened to being a voice for those who can’t speak? Someone’s losing sight of what’s important.
That is exactly how I feel about it. You’re not badmouthing a fellow rescuer, because they’re not a real rescuer if they’re letting horses go without and are trying to hide it/hush it up.
I agree. That’s like saying outing a neglectful foster parent will give fostering a bad name…what a stupid thing to say!!!! It won’t give fostering a bad name, it will make sure those foster parents can’t continue to neglect children!!! Outing a corrupt rescue won’t give rescue a bad name, it will give that rescuer a bad name so no one will give them horses anymore!!
If a “rescue” is starving and euthanizing horses, then it ceases to be a rescue. Period. End of story. They are not rescuing horses, so THEY ARE NOT A RESCUE. Any other rescues that try to cover for them are just as guilty in my opinion. Ideally, horse rescues should be held to certian standards but the truth is that the general public just doesn’t have the knowlegde to do that. That is painfully obvious in the light sentences abusers, negligent owners and hoarders get in court. We have to be the ones to take these faux rescues to task and do right by the horses victimized by them. How anyone, especially anyone involved in a legitimate rescue, could sleep at night while covering for an abuser is beyond me. Don’t they realize they are just perpetuating the abuse?
Whoever is telling you to keep quiet on this does not deserve your loyalty, and if horses have already died because of starvation or abuse then they do not deserve any more time to “make it right”. I hope you out them. It would serve them right.
Oh, I’m not being loyal to anyone. I just want to see, for my own curiosity, how this particular train wreck shakes out, because I do believe Bad Rescuer is getting what they refer to in reality television as a “sympathetic edit.” It’s not that I can get better or faster help for the horses, at this point, by revealing who this is about. And honestly, I bet 50 people are going to read this and say “I know EXACTLY who that’s about” and in reality it’ll be 50 different bad rescues…because I think this is a scenario that plays itself out on a daily basis.
I’ve said before, where I differ from a lot of people is that I do not care about intentions one bit. To me, the person who locks a horse in a pen and lets it starve, watching and sadistically enjoying its suffering, is no worse than the person who locks a horse in a pen and lets it starve because they couldn’t stand to see it go to slaughter because they have a “big heart.” To me, those things are morally equal, because the starving horse suffers equally. The pain is no less because of good intentions, therefore good intentions are irrelevant.
Would this happen to be taking place in the “Show Me State”? I think I have an idea of who it might be…
Yep-this is about RESPONSIBILITY. It is about the responsibility for ensuring that animals are treated humanely. The road to hell is paved….., and when we see with proof that someone is failing in a rescue situation, we have a RESPONSIBILITY to step in, acknowledge the situation for what it is, and correct it. We also need to do what is required/responsible in a legal sense to reduce the chance for a repeat event. The potential for these train wrecks is certainly one thing that frustrates the veterinary and law enforcement communities, and that leads to less willing intervention from those sectors. This is why many of us believe in accreditation, standards and on-site inspections for rescues. That is happening, but slowly, and there will always be those who will try to avoid the rigorous program. At the end of the day, we (welfare community) have a RESPONSIBILITY to address these failures, rather than cover them up. I would be glad to pick up the phone and chew up a few of the wussies on this point! RESPONSIBILITY sucks some days, but I know for me, life is not a popularity contest!
I don’t know who you’re talking about, but I love it. Animals have no agency, no voice. They depend entirely on us for our happiness, health and welfare. People who are doing the wrong thing should be called on it in public. Your metaphor is apt.
I do know who you are talking about, and this entire situation is like a bad comedy. I have gone to bed frustrated, enraged, and more than half tempted to fly there myself.
It was predicted that she would show up on ABR to beg for donations, and she did. She proudly proclaims that she has a base of “national support” and that as such she doesn’t care what any locals have to say about her–and believe me, they said plenty!
Her megalomania knows absolutely no bounds. The fact that she even thought she could pass the accreditation itself is absolutely mind boggling.
I can’t wait to see her show up on your blog, full of excuses, the same as she did on ICERS.
OH but it’s alllll about the horses, right? Not politics, or who screwed who last, or who has the biggest bank account…it’s about starving horses left on site, or being hidden, or being euthanized, to prevent criminal charges. It’s allll about the horses after all.
As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Or, you’re only as sick as your secrets.
Sounds like both of these apply tho I have absolutely no idea who you’re talking about.
By the way, I don’t know about the no media..I sent out three Letters to the Editor tonight in that area outlining the actions of that rescue, providing the pictures, and outlining exactly why this government recognized charity NEEDS to be exposed. I’m sick of confidentiality, and people stepping on tenterhooks–the horses have no one to speak for them. Kudos to the person who DID come forward. I appreciate her info very much.
Fugly, I love your site. And this post is bang on about the rescue… it’s disgusting how some people treat animals who have no voice and no say in where they end up.
However, I think you could have gotten your point across without stereotyping all Christians. I was distracted and offended by the religious undertones. Personally, I don’t see what religion bashing has to do with pointing out pathetic “rescues”.
So no offense, I like what you said and I agree with you wholeheartedly. But did you need to stoop to that level to get your point across? I don’t think you did. Just a thought.
I wasn’t stereotyping. It was simply a convenient – and accurate – analogy to another situation where people are urged to hush things up for fear of some dire consequence, when really, the best thing in the world would be to expose the situation to the light of day and ensure that every possible legal step is taken to prevent the person from doing more harm.
It’s not religion bashing at all. Most of my Christian friends would happily assist with a gelding procedure on anyone who molested a child, regardless of their position in a church or in society.
Well, I for one thought it was an apt metaphor and found it sadly amusing. It was this exact sort of talking out of both sides of the mouth that drove me away from the Catholic religion in the first place. One of the reasons, anyway.
And I was going to say almost exactly what Morgan Horse Queen said, about the road to hell. I shall be anxiously tuned in for a public outing of whoever this latest idiot is. I knew of another situation where the window dressing was a therapeutic riding center instead of a rescue, so there were a lot of kids who were victims of the con artist as well as the horses. There’s a lot of charlatans out there posing as therapeutic riding centers too…in fact, I tried to call the head of a recreation department at a university who teaches people to work in the recreational field, to warn them about this, and wouldn’t you know I not only got half an ear from the person on the phone but I didn’t get a call back from the department head, who I knew personally and really expected would be concerned about this matter. I really think students should know about this, and the people teaching them too, because it would be easy enough to spend valuable time trying to get internship hours in with people who present themselves as something they are not, and then having it either not be of benefit to the educational experience or worse, be detrimental. Plus a student could be implicated if someone got hurt. Simply amazing how many cons are out there posing as charities to get either donations of horses or donations to keep horses they already have, or buy expensive new horses all in the name of the charity. Many people were simply amazed at the fact that this particular con artist I am talking about got away with it for so long, because she was giving out tax receipts to people for donations, you’d think the IRS would have gotten wind of it when people started claiming the write-offs. I guess the writing on the wall was just seen too late, I know I didn’t become privy to it myself until just before she skipped town.
The use of “therapeutic riding” programs as a front for these horse-flipper, and/or rescuse-scammers, is a VERY REAL problem. We have just witnessed this in our area (and I do not think we are talking about the same situation). These programs need to be regulated, and unfortunately while NARHA supports some standards, there are other issues involved that really aren’t amenable to being handled by this type of group. Often, these pseudo therapeutic riding groups are not affiliated with NARHA to begin with, and many people caring for handicapped persons are desperate for suitable recreational opportunities, and are not savvy about equestrian operations. These people are easy prey for unscrupulous POS pseudo-instructors/trainers, or whatever they are purporting to be on THAT given day!
It is particularly unfortunate that your call to what SHOULD be a reputable program turning out trained therapeutic riding instructors was blown-off. That IMO is a sad statement.
Very true. I have an ex-rescue with S.T.R.I.D.E.S. here in Los Angeles, and they are one of the good ones. Do your research!
Huh, I’m Catholic and wasn’t offended in the slightest. Weird.
And is this Whispering Winds, or is it a different one? (Because really, there are probably thousands of “rescues” just like this)
I’m also a Catholic and took NO offense! And Cathy, I also know who you’re referring to and I’m not even a “local”. PrincessJess, your guess was a good one
I am Catholic too. I was kind of offended, but hey, unfortunately it happens/has happened/is happening, and in other religions too. Now I’m going to suck it up and shut up before my big mouth runs away with me.
funny – I was curious so googled Whipering Winds – it’s a Catholic Camp and Conference Center – Irony!
Even if this rescue started off right it must be in a position that it can no longer afford what it does or has just simply lost its way. Big egos and all the horse pucky that goes with it.
It’s time to bring them down and bring them down hard.
My wife and I have, for the most part, suspended our dog rescue because we knew we couldn’t afford to keep doing it in this economy.
Sure. Sometimes you just have to be sensible. I’m not currently taking in anything new and everybody tries, believe me! But right now I know I have other things to pay for and so it makes more sense to donate a month of training here and there to a horse that is with a good rescue and won’t be my mouth to feed at the end of the day. This is still valuable and needed. Think about it. You can buy a month of training for $600 – you’ll pay more than that just getting an auction horse even remotely healthy.
If you look to your right, USERL, another good rescue, is having a Valentine’s Day fundraiser and all they’re asking for is $25. Most of us have $25. This is so helpful – that $25 buys several bales of hay, ten dewormers online, etc.
I don’t think it is stereotyping Christians at all. The scandal that the Catholic church was involved in is well-known and well documented. It’s pretty much common knowledge it could have been handled better. I don’t see it as stereotyping Christians so much as pointing out the parallels between the mistakes of a few within the Catholic church and the mistakes of the people that are trying to cover up for this “rescue”.
Wow, did you miss the whole point? This post was totally ANTI-stereotype—because any organization whose reason for existence is to help and improve life, based on a system of beliefs about what is right and wrong, is on the road to destroying itself when it condones and covers up behavior that is antithetical to what it purports to believe in, especially when people in positions of leadership engage in wrong behavior!
I hope I’m not offending you–I believe in God, too—but I think the analogy is totally apropos. Mr. Littledog and I were actually having this conversation yesterday, we were comparing the cover-up of priests who molest, to puppy-mill breeders–both taking advantage of a false reputation of authenticity to perpetuate their crimes.
As a person who was raised in the Catholic church I don’t take offense to the annalogy. The annalogy was spot on but I don’t think it was meant encompass the entire Christian faith. There WAS/IS an active cover up in the Catholic Church still today. The ONLY reason anything has been done to a few of the perpetrators is that enough people made enough noise that the whole world took notice. It was very well known among pedophiles that they could become a priest and have free access to all the victims they wanted with no repercussions because what happened when someone complained? The offender was reassigned, right into a brand new pool of victims with no knowledge of his background! This was done over and over again. What is so different with this “rescue”? She offends in one state, people start to talk and she pulls of stakes and moves to a new place….problem solved…except this is the digital age and not so easy to leave her reputation behind.
That was exactly my point – that a cover-up or minimizing what the person is done, and ESPECIALLY not pursuing criminal charges when they are appropriate, is never the answer. It allows the person to continue on with their behavior (after, of course! crying and apologizing and promising to change.)
I don’t see any “Christian Bashing” in this post. It is a very apt comparison of what was the standard practice for years in a number of organizations, including the Catholic Church. You could also use the Boy Scouts, both Public & Private Schools, do I really need to go on? It is a matter of organized shame and cover up that in the end only makes everyone look worse. Not to mention, the voiceless victims left in the wake. If any of these organizations would have stepped up in the beginning and stopped what was happening, they wouldn’t be able to have these comparisons fairly made about them. However, they did not do that and have left themselves as examples of what not to do.
let’s see- Dean hasn’t moved out of state has she?
Patricia can’t move because she has a bunch of liens on her property (for putting in barns and arenas without permits- check it out on the county website) and besides, she is breeding rescues not starving them! She even has a picture on her website of the vet caring for the very sick filly- who was just a couple stalls down from some horses she JUST brought in- nice! Don’t quarantine sick new horses then beg for donations to help you save them – from your crappy practices….. Oh wait, you’re still claiming that Keona wasn’t out of your arab stud, right? Oh and if you still believe that she’s got a bridge to sell ya – but it ain’t permitted!!!
hell- can we PUH-LEASE get some governance for rescues?
Marecare – I can’t find the pic of the filly. Can you share a link?
Filly is pictured on their “donate” page : http://serenityequinerescue.com/donate.aspx right next to where they call Julie (Dr Deward’s wife) “Serenity’s Vet Tech”. I do not think they employ her, but maybe they do.
That filly was out of Sequoia, the mare they advertise as Serenity’s greatest success story and yet she ends up pregnant. Oh, but Patricia has everyone convinced it was the people who adopted her (and returned her) who got her pregnant. Riiiight, becasue I am SURE it wasn’t at the rescue where 2 other horses had oops babies- it was surely the BAD adopter.
According to sources that mare was back at Serenity by the first week of December at the latest, if not November. She gave birth the last week of the following October. Patricia told eveyrone she wasn’t back until Jan of Feb, which is why they all believe her. If she could muster up the moral fortitude to tell the TRUTH she would admit that it’s another of her crappy fugly arab’s babies.
By the way she gelded ONE of her stallions, so she thinks no one notices the Friesian stud, the Arab rescue stud who has been there for a year and conveniently never gets gelded or the new paint stallion that she has 800 excuses for not gelding. By the way, she has him pastured with his pet mare and her foal… sigh.
Anyhow, the little filly in the link above was born at Serenity and kept in a stall under heat lamps and with loads of vet care (so she can cry about the bills) and yet she brought in several TBs and plopped them right there in the barn by the sickly baby.
They do use Dr. DeWard as a vet; however, you can’t very well take that as a strike against him or his wife. As a vet, you go where you’re called to go and you do the job you’re paid to do. Well, hopefully paid.
I think what MareCare was referring to was the way the web page makes it sounds as though Julie might be Serenity’s private vet-tech. That kind of irked me, too.
Word on the street is that Sequoia’s first adopters have confirmed that there were no stallions in the area when they had her. And rumor has it that one reason that filly was so weak was that she was premature. I say rumors because I have the information second-hand, at best.
I can’t help but have noticed the parade of horses going into Serenity, yet their web page shows only six up for adoption. Not a word about the ones who came back (I know of at least two); and you have to know how to look to catch how many have been added.
Sorry ’bout that- I meant that the reference they make to her sounds like she is on staff at the rescue. Then again, thier own vets (plural) have been telling Patricia to geld that cryptoid freisian stud of hers but she is in no rush… she’s studding him out. Maybe his worthless cryptoid offspring will end up in her rescue someday, and she can complete the circle of shitty backyard breeding.
Let me guess — HE didn’t get approved, did he?
It could be many “rescues”. Many have at least a few secrets going on. Many of us have things we regret, a horse we didn’t put down soon enough or a leaving halters on the pasture that hangs a horse. The difference is the rescues don’t admit it.
You know, there are rescues that do. One thing I have always admired about Save A Forgotten Equine is that they flat-out admit when a placement goes bad or they catch a foster home not providing proper care. They usually post it on their message board complete with pictures. Far from working against them, this has given them an EXCELLENT reputation – because donors know they are being honest and the leadership is not only stepping in and taking responsibility but not trying to cover up.
I agree, FHOTD- I think that SAFE’s willingness to be open and honest and publish horse info, status updates (good and bad) and financials is what makes them so well respected.
And I don’t think things will get better anytime soon. So keep on breeding, it’s your right.
Yeah it’s also a person’s “right” to reproduce, but that does NOT mean that they should when they know they can’t afford it!!! I’m NOT preaching here. I am currently making the best out of an unexpected pregnancy while being a poor college student. I took proper precautions, but it did not work. I am now looking for a leaser (and would only lease her to someone I trust) to take my horse on because I can no longer afford it! The difference is RECOGNIZING it and NOT recognizing it. The difference is between people who can hardly afford their children and yet think breeding their HORSE is a fantastic plan, and those of us who realize that, when faced with something like this, financial strain needs to be taken off somewhere. That means not breeding our horses when we know there’s a possibility that there won’t be a buyer for quite a while. It may be a right, but it’s not morally right.
Recognizing it and taking appropriate steps is always the main difference between a train-wreck and an unexpected bobble in life. As long as you stay sane, rational and sensible, and do what is best for the animal instead of what is best for your own ego, the odds are you will rise above the bobbles and your animals will never have to fear a lack of care.
I agree. And if I can’t find a leaser, I will just have a find another job or 2!! That’s what responsible people do.
Yep! One thing I’ve always thought is that if you have a “surprise” baby, and can’t work for a while, you can always make some income sitting someone else’s little surprise. Child care actually pays really well for something where you’re at home all day. Get CPR certified and get a little training. Someone l know was paying her sister $1200 a month to watch her baby along with the girl’s own. That will pay the horse’s bills and then some.
Very long time reader… However I rarely post. I have no idea who you are talking about (I am from BC) But to this I would like to say… Seeing is believing. If you see ANY animal in a state of abuse, neglect, etc, SPEAK UP. Dont believe bullsh*t stories, excuses and so on. Dont turn your head REGARDLESS of who it is, be it a friend, “rescue” or any “Professional”. Dont keep quiet. Dont wait for the situation to get better. Chances are it wont…
I did this once, when I was much younger. I chose to keep my mouth shut, and did what I could to help the horses myself. I did not call for help, or report said person. I will always regret it, and blame myself as much as I blame the so called “owner” of these horses. They were suffering, and I did not do everything I could have to help them. I will NEVER forgive myself, and believe me… if, as an animal lover, you see animals suffering, and do nothing… You WILL regret it!
OT but… Fugly I LOVE your blog. Adore it. I wanted to tell you that I have learned SO much from your blog over the past couple years. You have helped improve me as a horse person (as well as alot of growing up, that helped as well! LOL)
I used to breed a few backyard (correct, cute, but still didn’t need to exist) ponies a year. Now I dont. I no longer stand a stallion. NEVER again will I take in more rescues than I can handle. I was young and idealistic and made my fair share of mistakes, but learned from them, as well as I have learned from your blog. I am a faithful daily reader, and I just wanted to thank you for HOW MUCH you have drilled into my head in the past couple years. Never again will I re-home a colt (gelding all the way!). Never again will I breed a horse without LOADS of thought, research and quality. (I have not bred a horse in over 2 years, and have no plans to. Im showing my mare instead) Never again will I take in even ONE more horse than I am comfortably and financially able to handle.
I am thankful for this blog, hopefully educating young horse people all over. I am thankful that the ponies I DID breed have fabulous homes. I am thankful for the knowledge I have gained and for the chance to use it!
Thanks Fugly!!!
Thank you!
A scenario very much like this occurred in So. Cal in 2002. TIER had facilitated the rescue of a TB mare named Supper in 2000.
(YES! that was her registered name!) http://www.tierrescue.org/Supper.htm
She went to California Horse Protection (what a joke) because folks had donated to rescue her. We were full and CHP supposedly had a good reputation. They were located near another rescue I was very familiar with and so I thought she would be okay because the other rescue was across the street and would keep an eye on her for us.
The other rescue contacted me to tell me the horses were not doing well. They contacted AC. I went down, couldn’t get in, but could see a couple horses (snuck around the back to see what I could see). I called AC. AC told me they were on it, were documenting it and to stay out of it because they had planned a seizure of the horses. Months later they finally seized the horses. I was only able to get Supper out of there after they had seized the horses. The only reason I was able to get Supper was because I had the bill of sale from the feedlot and her registration papers. One more reason for us to hang on to registration papers!
December 2009 we rescued another horse that had been at a rescue previously. http://www.tierrescue.org/BigRed.htm He had been seized by AC, adopted out, and seized again.
*sigh*
Like rescues don’t have a big enough job without continually cleaning up after other rescues…yet it happens all the time.
Again, please don’t rescue horses if you’re (a) unemployed, (b) on disability, (c) don’t have the facilities, etc.
I’ll give you guys one more hint…for the locals. The rescue I’m talking about was caught feeding STRAW instead of hay. WTF.
O.K., that is complete bullshit.
Fugly wasn’t bashing all Christians. She told the truth and she specifically said Catholics. Not all Christians are Catholics and not all Catholics act like Christians. The molestation of children by priests is a terrible thing and it was hushed up and that is worse than terrible it is arrogant, despicable and sinful. These crimes had consequences and repercussions for all Catholics around the world as well as other Christians, just as one horse rescue acting badly will have consequences and repercussions for all other horse rescues. People will become more and more selective about who they send their donations to and some really great rescues will go without because of the irresponsibility of one.
One bad apple can and will ruin the whole barrel.
Yes, I’m tired of the story about the molester priests. At the time most of this happened, the mental health community believed that this stuff could be cured. Offenders would come back from treatment as “cured” and would be reassigned, since kids were supposedly safe. We are supposed to be forgiving and encouraging, so this happened over and over, and the priest’s reputation was protected, so he could start again with a clean slate. (There were many exceptions to this, too. Dumb mistakes in the name of protecting the Church against scandal, when she would have been strengthened by open publicity.)
…Why is Karma “forcing” me to make OT posts, here on my favorite blog? Argh.
Ruthie
The parable was very fitting.
Please expose this ex-rescue ASAP so those of us who donate to rescues don’t contribute to people who are not directing the funds to benefit the horses. How very sad.
Fugly, I think your posts are great! After emails it is one of the firsts favorites I click onto. I look forward to your blog and am not offended by your catholic priest/ horse rescuer analogy. My uncle is a brother in the catholic church and it is no secret that fellow priests and all the church fellowship despise the doings of these priests. The same with rescuers. A true rescuer does the “right” thing the “right” way. The corrupt ones should be brought to justice as the criminals they are. Animal abuse like child molesting is a crime and it doesn’t matter who is doing it, be it a rescuer or priest it is a horrific crime against the innocent and MUST be brought to justice. I wish readers would quit making things about themselves and focus on the problems at hand. Or simply put grow thicker skin, the horses are depending on it.
I’m a Christian and I understood that what Fugly was saying is that is not right to “cover” for people who are doing wrong in the name of religion. Take a look at history, many evil things have been done and covered up in the name of religion and to protect those in religious leadership. The Bible says that the TRUTH will set you free and that’s what we all need……….to live in the truth no matter how difficult that is at times. Just because we are professing some type of faith, does not change the truth or make anyone professing a particular faith (whatever faith that may be) above recrimination or reproach. It is similar to the anti-abortion folks killing doctors. That just makes no sense at all to be pro-life and kill doctors!!!!
Good example!
In my mind, it is perfectly acceptable to kill one doctor to save the lives of possibly hundreds of our own human babies. Makes alot more sense to me than our miliary charging in and killing hundreds, including our own boys, to “take” a foreign hill or small bit of land during war time, when they have no intention of keeping that bit of land for ourselves or our people after the war is over. We call them, heros for that. I applaud the killer of the abortion doctor. My only complaint is that he should have done is sooner. Could have saved even more babies from a horrid death.
Oh, good Lord (and I mean that literally as I am invoking the name of God in the presence of your incomprehensible logic). YOU are the people that give pro-life supporters such a horrid name! “Thou shalt not kill” – exactly which part of that do you NOT understand??? Two wrongs do NOT make a right! How about, “Judge not, lest you be judged”? I cannot believe that you posted this on a forum about horse rescue! I cannot believe there are actually people like you who believe that killing another human being is justified for any reason!
(I apologize to everyone else for the OT rant – but holy cow!)
I agree
well said.
Ah, so you support women dying of diseases that couldn’t be treated because they were pregnant. Women dying because their baby died in the womb and weren’t removed, so the fetus rotted in the womb and caused the women to go septic. Women being forced to give birth to babies that are so horribly malformed they can’t survive outside the womb. Little girls being forced to stay pregnant even though that is extremely hazardous for a 10 or 12 year old. Rape and incest victims being forced to carry their abuser’s babies to full term. Etc, etc. Well, it’s good to know what kind of person you are.
Yay Platedlizard!
A veteran nurse I know, who’s worked in the Pediatric units and ERs of a couple of our country’s roughest neighborhoods, says “Any ER nurse who claims to be anti-choice is either a) lying, b) seriously deluded or c) has always worked in posh hospitals. I have yet to meet one, anyway.” She will then tell you hair-raising stories of daily cases of incest, abuse and flat-out ignorance. The world is a cruel, cruel place when you’re poor and uneducated.
Really, this “NO ABORTION EVER” mentality is reminiscent of the very same “no-kill at all-costs” attitude that runs so many animal rescues into the ground. Let’s spend all our effort on a foundered 24 year old horse whose hooves have fallen off!!!!
Or even “this very malnourished, parasite-ridden, coming 2 year old fugly mare is pregnant, but should we abort? NOOOOO, cuz that would be against God’s Plan.” UGH.
Yeah, you can believe with all your heart that abuse and suffering are part of Invisible Sky Dude’s Great Big Micromanaged Plan For Each Of Us. I’d rather think better of my chosen Deity.
Less than five percent of abortions are due to the reasons you listed. The vast majority of pro-lifers are okay with abortions due to medical necessity.
Really, both of you, learn to form an argument properly. You’re embarrassing the rest of the board.
*applauds Melissa*
Folks, this is NOT the abortion debate board. Can we all just quit? We do not live in the Wild West. Make your point by educating others, and campaigning to create and enforce laws which support your beliefs. I don’t run around shooting horse abusers, either, no matter how justified I think it might be in a few – ahem JASON MEDUNA – cases.
Just to clarify now that the thread’s gotten bigger – ‘both of you’ is referring to platedlizard and Ponykins and their exceptionally illogical rants, not any of the other respondents to the thread.
And now I’m done feeding the off topic trolls.
Thank You!
platedlizard wrote: Women being forced to give birth to babies that are so horribly malformed they can’t survive outside the womb.
What you didn’t mention and what many people do not know, is that if a woman gives birth to an infant with defects incompatible with life, the medical team is then ethically mandated to do whatever they can to save that infant. So, for instance, a fetus that develops without a face starts to smother the instant the umbilical cord is cut and their only experience of life is likely to be an emergency tracheotomy performed without anesthesia. Even if the tracheotomy solves the immediate problem of oxygen intake, they have no mouth, no ability to swallow and usually many other cranial defects that mean they live a short life full of pain.
How is that more humane than an abortion? I just do not see it.
Dude. You are fucked up.
Um. Yeah.
1000000000000000000000%.
My cousin goes to that doctor’s church. With his KIDS. LITTLE KIDS. I’m just glad they’d opted for the Saturday night service that week…
Anyway. Ponykins, that’s some nutso shitso stuff.
IF you are aware and know for a FACT that this is happening then playing the guessing game is wrong, everyone has their opinion and can add to your story BUT the fact remains that IF horses are starving and being neglected then it is your moral obligation to report them FUGLY. Do not let any more die so you can have fun on your blog.
It’s been reported and is being handled. What I’m not happy about is HOW it’s being handled.
Thank you Fugs! I know exactly what you are talking about and why it doesn’t surprise me in the least, ITS PATHETIC AND DISGUSTING. I will be calling the sheriff Dept & AC shortly.
*giggles, while watching Rishelle duck as the point flies over her head*
There is a big difference between a rescue group that looks at a situation objectively and humanely euth’s unadoptable animals because of unsoundness or untrainability, and one that euth’s animals simply because they don’t feel like putting time, feed, and farrier care into them. The best kind of rescue is not afraid to say, this mare is crippled, she’s in pain and will never be comfortable even living her life as a pasture pet – we need to let her go rather than spend thousands of dollars trying to fix her, when that money can save many other horses who have potential to make good riding partners for adopters. And that kind of rescue doesn’t hide what they do or why they do it.
I agree completely – euthing, per se, is not a bad thing at all.
Rainbeau, you are exactly right. And in this case, the crippled, the old, the ones who can’t move without pain, are being left to suffer so that this ‘rescuer’ can solicit funds for their care, all the while viciously and personally attacking anyone who dares to question the business practices, ethics or standards of care for what is supposed to be a transparent 501 public charity. It’s not about the horses, it’s about someone who needed a roof over their head, and played the rescue card to do it.
Or a rescue that ends up euthing animals because it was careless or negligent. That’s a sign of serious problems.
I can only hope that the well known, nationally known rescue in my area is the one you’re talking about.
*Is*? or *isn’t* ????
“IS” as in hoping AC IS doing something.
CMK I had the same thought , wouldn’t it be nice if they finally had to -gulp- take care of the animals.
Sadly it looks lke it is so common everyone thinks it is one rescue or another.
Wow, how sad is that a noble idea being used to scam and starve and it’s as common as can be.
It’s beyond sad. How can you open the eyes of well-meaning suckers so they see what’s really happening?
Fugly, you should just out the horse starvers already instead of beating around the bush. The horses’ welfare comes first, no matter who is starving them.
Secondly, Roman Catholic Pope and Mary worshippers are not real Christians, they are cultists who believe they eat Jesus in a cookie.
1. If the horses were not already being helped as much as I could achieve, I would have outed them already. I have no special powers to get the authorities into gear that the rest of you don’t have. They know about it. Everybody who ought to know about it, knows about it.
2. Now THAT was religion bashing. Knock it off. That wasn’t my point at all and you know it.
That was very rude and uncalled for. Although everyone is entitled to their opinions, you shouldn’t bash someone’s religion just because you don’t like it.
As for the rescues, we had one near where I live (two technically, the second didn’t last long), and they were always looking for donations. Sadly, they were not gelding the colts that came in and eventually that had over 100 horses on about 35 acres, the local sherriffs office shut them down since they said that the place was unsanitary and unhealthy for the NEIGHBORS (gah!). The people gave most of the horses away, sadly no one knows where most of them went, but I agree out them!
OK, that’s just Inflammatory, Cheri. That’s like saying… Baptists aren’t Christians because they don’t believe in infant baptism, and use GRAPE JUICE instead of WINE at Communion. Oh, and I’ll sic some Quakers, Mennonites & Brethren on you – they don’t believe in any sacraments, period, but if you called them unChristian, I do believe they could argue you into the ground. Sheesh.
Actually, Fugly, that is a VERY apt analogy, and I eagerly await the details. Fortunately there aren’t abusive “rescues” near me, just abusive horse owners.
I hate it when people want to sweep the bad stuff under the rug. It ALWAYS comes out eventually, and gee, don’t we all look stooopid??
I never understood how some people had the nerve to declare who was a real Christian and who wasn’t. It seems like they spend so much time on purity of ideals that they forget about the people around them. Get your nose out of the Chick Tracts and start making friends with people outside your church, you might learn something.
The business with the Catholic hierarchy is good for Fug’s analogy because it’s been in the news so recently, but she could have found similar stories anywhere- the lesson is that you shouldn’t be pressured into staying silent by a group, even one that you feel that, on the whole, is doing good work.
Cheri- Wow, that was a weirdly inaccurate piece of xenophobia. I’m a Catholic and I would like to know what exactly in your comment reflected real Christian values, because it looked a lot like hate filled invective to me.
Really? What makes YOU qualified to judge who is and isn’t a “real Christian” when true Christianity lives in people’s hearts. Your statements suggest that you need to go look in the mirror and ask yourself if you qualify as a “real Christian. Get your head out of your ass and re-read Fugly’s post and you’ll know that the subject of today’s blog is not about who is or isn’t a Christian. Jeese, some people will seize any opportunity to grab a pulpit.
Oh OK sorry, PRS, by echoing the phrasing of Chreri’s comment in replying to him/her I seem to have made you really angry. I am afraid to say that in my ignorance I didn’t realise that “real Christian values” meant “gratuitously insulting other people’s religion”. Thanks for setting me straight on that front. I was well off track; I though it was generally accepted as meaning the values found in the teachings of Jesus. I know: well off track or what!
Wow, what a real cluster ***. I was responding to Cheri’s original comment not anything anybody else said….
Y’know if you follow the little boxes around the comments you can trace them back up to the comment that was originally commented on so as not to embarrass yourself by attacking an innocent by stander in the future. I’ve read and re-read my comment to Cheri and still don’t see how Whiskey thought I was commenting to her. Go figure.
I have several thoughts on the clearly off topic religous stuff. I am going to preface it with saying that personally I am not JuedoChristian of any stripe.
1. That was complety wrong and I am glad Fugs told her to knock that crap off.
2. I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and was actually taught that all Catholics were evil, not Christian idol worshippers and that the Pope might as well be the devil. There are actually many many thousands of people that believe this way! Notice now I am not Christian.
3. It made me giggle in the terrible way that comedians have been making people laugh with jokes about midgets, about every ethnic group there is and every religion since there first started being jokes. Unfortunately I have no idea if it was a joke made in poor taste or if she was serious.
66puppies: Thanks, but I got the point. However I would think on a blog like this if someone doesn’t understand, you would try to help them understand… not make fun. But hey, maybe making fun of people who are trying to learn is constructive and helpful in your mind… Whatever.
Everyone else: Thank you for your comments/arguments. After reading them all I think I do understand what Fugly was getting at. The initial offense has worn off and now I can see why Fugly used the Catholic church as an example. Not all Christians are like that, not all rescues are like the disgusting one Fugly was reffering to. Thanks again Fugly for your blog. You have opened many eyes and changed the way many people in the horse-world think. Keep at it.
No, you didnt get it — as the first line of your reply illustrates. It was not about the Catholic church, not at all – it was about sweeping a reprehensible act under the rug. Fugly used a widely known occurence (or so she thought, until SOMEONE didnt get it) as an example.
So, I could either choose to giggle and keep my nastier comments to myself, or, do this, and publicly correct you.
Was that better?
Correction: should be first paragraph, not first line. My bad. feel free to giggle.
One more thing, don’t blame Fugly for covering anything up. This mess has been reported, repeatedly to every local agency and many national orgs by several individuals, and the calls are still rolling in. ABR people were warned too, a year ago, that FOB horses were at risk. When everyone finally decides which of their policies allows them to act on behalf of the HORSES, maybe then we’ll see how this plays out. Unfortunately it will be too late for some.
Fugly you are SO right. The parallels between child abuse, elder abuse and animal abuse are so close that your editorial parable is striking – and TRUTHFUL. Having worked in all three areas as both volunteer and – in two areas – paid worker – I wholeheartedly endorse your post.
I just wish that the powerful and widely read forums such as TROT.ORG and Saddlebred Rescue and certain other breed-oriented forums would stop whining about how posting news on the internet is somehow going to “ruin” any legal action against abusers whether under the civil legal system or the criminal justice system. It can’t, it won’t, and judges have said over and over AND OVER that they do not consider internet forum postings as anything other than opinions of the post-ers. These forums sanitize and censor and what they are really doing with their holier-than-thou censorship is allowing bad rescues and bad rescuers and other abusers to continue doing their crimes. ALLOWING wide dissemination of this kind of information can and DOES save animal lives and, in the case of elder and child abuse, human lives.
There is nothing more powerful than shared information.
“I just wish that the powerful and widely read forums such as TROT.ORG and Saddlebred Rescue and certain other breed-oriented forums would stop whining about how posting news on the internet is somehow going to “ruin†any legal action against abusers whether under the civil legal system or the criminal justice system. It can’t, it won’t, and judges have said over and over AND OVER that they do not consider internet forum postings as anything other than opinions of the post-ers.”
I KNOW! I keep saying this. SHOW ME a case that has been “ruined” by discussion on the Internet. JUST ONE. Do you REALLY think Superior Court Judges are sitting around reading the horsey message boards and going, gee, ShaggyPony63 says it so it must be true? Give me a damn break.
THIS is the big excuse used in this area…You ‘can’t take pictures, you can’t call the media, you can’t post online’ – because it will “ruin the case”. UM, HELLO – it’s photographic evidence of starving and dead horses on a specific property at a specific time, you twit. I think that’s pretty powerful documented proof to carry into a courtroom, myself, and I damn well will send it to everyone I know until something positive happens.
In the recent Ohio starvation case, it was only the pictures of the dead and starving horses and the call to the media that spurred Animal Control to do something. They had allegedly made 22 trips to the farm between last February and December but did nothing while the numbers dwindled from over 30 to 6, a pony and a mini-donkey. If a passer-by hadn’t taken those pictures, I’m pretty sure those last animals would also be dead. Actually, at least two more of them died, possibly from refeeding syndrome, but that’s a whole other story.
I say all the time – if AC won’t move, get the media involved. Boy will they move fast when they have a PR nightmare on their hands.
I can think of at least one case (non-animal related) in which online discussion may have actually helped the plaintiff. Information that might never have been otherwise gathered appeared after being discussed online (emails to third parties etc) and were later subpoenaed and used as evidence during the trial. It was never proven, but it was widely suspected that the plaintiff law office had an intern watching the discussion. People underestimate the power of crowdsourcing to dig up information that might be otherwise unavailable to the prosecution.
There have been cases online where animal abusers (usually cat abusers) were located and
harassed relentlesslyturned over to the police and media by Anonymous (a very loose group of netizines who operate, well, anonymously, for good or ill) after the abuser posted pictures or video to the web. I don’t recommend the actual harassment, that really would potentially ruin a case, but the information-gathering power of a group of people can certainly be put to good use.Aww crap, I have no idea who it is and I am local. I’ll be anxiously watching for the reveal as I plan to adopt a rescue horse in the next few months and I spend a lot of time browsing around the local rescue’s websites these days considering my options.
At first I thought it was One Horse At A Time, but now I’m banking on it being Whispering Winds also. I pulled up all their shit on ABF (my first time over there). WTF?!? It was like watching a bad train wreck. I couldn’t stop clicking! Are those people smoking crack? On there begging for money to buy, QT, and transport horses! If they don’t have money to get the horse how are they going to take care of it? There was even a guy on there asking for money because he couldn’t buy hay and he was breeding 12 mares! He admitted someone offered to GIVE him FREE hay if he promised not to breed this year and he turned it down. When a vet politely pointed out on the forum that there is no market for the horses he is breeding they started crying for the poor man who has the right to breed if he wants! These people make me want to take a bath with my toaster!
BTW-I have a PDF of the animal control complaint on them in Tom and Susan Pohlman’s names, first page only (I couldn’t find the second page but I haven’t given up) and it sure sounds like them. Also read they admitted to feeding straw.
And to sweetlillena-You said EXACTLY what I was thinking. That is our responsibility, and I am not ashamed to say that I HAVE broken the law to help a few horses when law enforcement and AC in my area failed them. 5 horses died at the hands of a man in my area, one even buried alive with a broken back. Even with myself and others reporting the conditions, weekly pictures, videos and the horses being kept right on a public biketrail where anyone had access to them and could see their condition and moniter the lack of feeding and care nothing was done for them. The guy flat out told officers he would let them die before he spent money on them. Only one female officer cared enough to investigate on the “Good Ol’ Boy” PD and she was shut down every time she spoke out. The owner was a personal friend of the chief of police. Well early one morning those horses dissapeared and it took the guy 3 DAYS to even realize they were gone. By then they were safe in a neighboring state on a very secluded farm. Owner’s response: “I don’t have to bother with burying them now”. I know what I did was illegal but I would do it again because now those horses are fat, happy and healthy. Former owner knows what me and my friend did (it wasn’t hard to figure out, we are both former employees of his from his business) and he took it tongue-in-cheek.
And if it is Whispering Winds, the Animal Control complaint that I have (#8455-1) shows the investigation as being closed.
ABR has done some good but the problem is, it’s the Wild West over there — no rules and no law. Every con artist and scammer on earth uses that board as a playground. If I won the lottery, I swear I’d fly around and see where all those FOB horses are now and inspect their condition. Bet THAT would be eye-opening. If I could even FIND them.
I found out about ABR from reading FHOD and checked it out. I have read it every night (after FHOD) since. I don’t donate $$ to any of the rescues on there, but sometimes, my heartstring are pulled very hard. The Camelot auctions every week are interesting, as almost every week all of the killpen horses are “saved.” One weekend I calculated that the killbuyer had made around $6000 in profit from the horses that week. I, too, have often wondered where these horses ultimately end up — they all get bailed, and the killbuyer’s wallet gets fatter but what happens to the horses after the euphoria of a save is over???
Didn’t mean One Horse At A Time, total brain fart there! Meant to say I thought it was Choctow Ridge Rescue, I know they have been taking in horses, have a horrible reputation and have horses posted all over the internet. I’ve emailed on a couple of them and tried to open up a dialogue with Beverly Greenwood to try to get recent pics of what she has (most recent I can find on the net is 3 weeks to a month old) but haven’t heard back from her as of yet. Would be real curious to know what happened to the 3-legged donkey (one leg just “fell off” after it was broken and then treated with duct tape and sticks…her own words on an apotion forum) but have had no luck. Anyone else have any info on this?
Woot! Good for you and your friend, and good for those horses too.
Wow Cheri, didn’t see that coming. Once again making this issue about yourself is hurting the true reason for the post.
I am so glad that you brought up this topic, fugly.
I always wonder how bad rescues keep on doing their thing even when people know that they are bad. Here is what I come up with.
*Charismatic, tear-gushing rescuers that deflect authorities and/or inquirers, best example being Mz. Solomon. Concerned people called authorities for years and years and she even admits she had visits from AC frequently and they “found no infractions”. These people surround themselves with believers and sit back and watch them get rid of anyone that has concerns. Which brings me to my next point,
*Those of us, that have been in horses for years and can see bad rescuing, get absolutley attacked when they speak up. Some of us just dont have the toughness to take all the lies that are made up about them to discredit their report. And some of us simply are sick and tired of constantly hitting that wall. When an AC officer told me that he did not know one horse from another, I practically fell over in disappointment. DONT GET ME WRONG, I know there are excellent AC officers working very hard to protect animals, but when you finally get one of them to investigate and they admittedly “dont know horses”, you get a little deflated.
*and finally, and I hesitate to say this, the internet. I am absolutely amazed when people post their opinion about a certain rescue in question, and when asked, admit they have never been there before. Or how about those people that are armchair horse experts but they have never fed a horse that has not been fed in months? They have never seen infection, lice, elf feet or that look of dispair that a horse has when he has been standing in mud/shit for years. They think that a pregnant mare and a stallion loose together with a baby at their side is a cute little family so they defend the rescue that lets this continue. These people that are experts about rescue horses from their living room couch do not help. Yes, I know, many of these people send money to good rescues and set up shipping and arrange things to help, I am not talking about them.
I really am frustrated with the whole process of horse rescue right now. It seems that the people that KNOW what they are doing, dont have the money/time/resources and the people with those things, dont have the brains and/or they do rescue completely from the heart. I have spoken to many ex-rescue people that feel the exact same way. Too much time/effort goes into policing rescues and figuring out who is legit, that leaves so little time and effort for actual hands-on horse care and training.
I appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion on this.
Newbie, I just gave you a standing ovation. Thank you for your post. You hit the nail on the head.
I second what Geezmo says- newbie is right on track.
In the end God doesn’t judge you based on what other rescues have done. He judges you and whether you held up your end of the agreement of care you entered into with the animals who needed help.
I don’t look at a car company with mass recalls and think, wow all car companies are bad and I should start buying motorcycles. Nobody does because we know better that to blame the one companies mistakes on a whole industry, that would just be stupid. Any one who doesn’t donate to rescues at all because of situations like this need to be rational, do your home work and research a few, ask around. Be involved and volunteer time at the rescue you want to give money too, any rescue willing to take money would also love to take your time too!
As for the situation fugs is talking about….I hope they get dragged out by thier toes by the horses they are starving and national media somehow gets a hold of the story so that they aren’t able to have animals anywhere. OR maybe a nice LOOOOOOOONG jail sentence for once!!!
Amen!!!
Carrie Giannandrea
Dances with Horses
Formula One Farms
APPALOOSA PEOPLE!!! please help if you can, i just found a blind 17 year old gelding, for free, on craigslist. he is a leopard, looks well fed and meaty. this area is full of “dealers” that sell to kill buyers, please help him if you can. i do not know how to post links (it’s obvious i am not too computer savvy), but he is on wichita falls, tx craigslist, in todays free postings. if you think you may need my assistance here is my e-mail vsoejoto@yahoo.com
A great analogy for sure Fugs. I hope the help that is coming to the voiceless gets there soon and that the hammer comes down on the false rescue hard.
I’m guessing I may have figured out which rescue this is too. Ugh.
Let’s take this from another perspective. What if this was a nursing home or assisted living facility fo the elderly, and there was obvious neglect and abuse. Do you sweep it under the rug and gloss it over so the geriatric care industry’s name isn’t besmirched? (This is a rhetorical question for those of you who need that pointed out…)
Fugs, know you’re busy and this is OT, but I am trying to get some health realted answers relative to riding. I had pelvic radiation and pelvic lymphnodes removed (along with a TAHBSO) last July. I’m trying to find other jumpers/eventers who have had the radx & lymphnodes removed and see how they’re dealing with riding/jumping. I’m back in the saddle again but not jumping because I am apparantly at risk for a condition called lymphedema and possible pelvic fracture due to the treatment. (One doc said don’t fall off a horse at least until the end of March, another said not to worry so much – since I’m atlhletic & have good bone density, and unfortunately, all of this was discussed/divulged AFTER I had treatment). I’ve already posted to some cancer support groups and some equestrian groups, but no responses yet -I know this is a long shot, but thought I’d try. Thanks very much.
Keep in mind that Fugly is not deliberately trying to get people to play the “guessing game,” for any sick reason such as attracting attention to her blog.
This ongoing situation has been reported for years. Complaints by locals resulted in the filing of a few complaints, and although the rescue has underwent “monitoring status,” we all have seen how effective that can be. Letters have been sent to local newspapers, and not followed up on–indeed, a complimentary article was written by a local paper and comments from the locals deleted as “personal attacks.” The newspaper itself found no problem with even describing how this supposed rescue had to stop to help lift a 2 year old out of the mud, where he was stuck after lying down. Reports were filed, pictures taken, and one of its strongest proponents has had her life, livelihood and livestock threatened. She has been vilified on a nationwide basis, and dismissed as someone with a “vendetta.”
It isn’t that no one has taken the appropriate steps on a community level, the failure to help the horses has occurred at a much higher level.
Yeah, and part of my issue here is that I genuinely like some of the people working on this and know that they will always put the interests of the horses #1. However, some of the other people working on it, I’m not so sure about. The offending rescuer MAY get charged. If she does, I’ll do the “reveal” and we’ll follow up and I’ll salute everybody for doing the right thing.
See, I don’t know if this is going to truly go bad yet. I know that this situation has dragged on too long. I know that local law enforcement is protecting this person. I’m waiting to see what those high up in the rescue community do. We shall see!
But Fugly..what I worry most about..is what is going to happen if this gets swept under the rug yet again and this person is allowed to merrily go on her way soliciting donations from people duped by her, including those “national organizations.” They have sent huge money her way in the past–and yet never stepped foot on the property. Simply mind boggling.
It shocks me completely that “rescues” can get large sums of money without an on-site interview, especially these days with all the money laundering and ID theft! I’m told there is such a place not far from where I am that does the same thing…applies for grants to “cover” their costs, but doesn’t properly take care of the horses (said facility has a reputation for not cleaning stalls, inadequate amounts of bedding, being overpopulated and having inadequate facilites and care). Unfortunately, their poor reputation is circulated quietly throughout our local industry instead of being publicly exposed, and they continue to leech money from people who are willing to give. Money that could be doing good for other community (even horse related) projects. It’s mind boggling!
I see that this has been up for awhile (80 comments already).
Me, I have no faith that any of the various possibilities will do the right thing. If they were capable of learning, of being decent humans, the situations would not exist in the first place.
sagebeasties.blogspot.com
Hello everyone!
I know this comment is unrelated, but I’m an avid reader of fugly and I know how helpful and understanding you guys are, so I was hoping I could get some help with research I’m conducting.
I’m currently a student studying in upstate New York and conducting some research on peoples knowledge and opinions of dog daycare. Now I’m sure (as horse people) many of you are also the proud owners of some, somewhat shorter, furry friends. If you wouldn’t mind completing a very quick survey for me I would be eternally grateful!
No worries, it’s quite short, takes about 2 minutes, and I don’t save any sort of contact information or things of that nature. It would be a HUGE help in assisting with my senior research. If you’d like to help out (and I hope most of you dog owners do!) just follow the direct link below and it will take you right to it!
Thanks so much guys in advance, I really appreciate it, and love reading all of your comments every week. My favorite blog for sure!
Have a fantastic day and don’t forget to give all your furry friends a hug!
My link seems to have gone funny, if all else fails, please copy/past the following link in your browser:
http://www.eSurveysPro.com/Survey.aspx?id=a3dca4d4-6bfd-4359-b648-0c6bd5d592f3
Thanks again everyone, my apologies for the confused link!
i am in canada tried it take it with no luck sorry
RK would love to have a copy of your survey results and project when you are done! I just interviewed for a position that this information could be very useful to me. Would you send it to me when you are done, kallista (at) hughes dot net? Thanks!
Of course! I’ll make note and be sure to send you my results
Thanks so much!
OMFG! Where the hell have I BEEN? I’m local and I had NO idea! I thought you were talking about someone in WA or back east.
Old Morgans…Exactly…
“what is going to happen if this gets swept under the rug yet again and this person is allowed to merrily go on her way soliciting donations from people duped by her”
Report her to the IRS! You know, the “watch us get blood from a rock” folks. If they’re claiming to be a 501c, and aren’t, they may not be reporting their donations as income…
Normally, they only catch the phony 501c’s if they audit one of the donators. So, somebody tell them, and at least they will get audited.
They sure have a nice website. That’s one reason my money only goes to local outfits that I can visit.
Ruthie
Good point. That is how they took down Al Capone, with tax evasion, when nothing else stuck.
So where is this?
Just a thought. If it does look like its going to be swept under the rug again, could you get a group get together to confront the powers that be (Animal control, or local officials). There really is power in numbers. Its a lot harder to ignore 10 angry people in your office or at your meeting than it is to ignore individual calls and visits.
Did we already get the answer of who this topic is about? Seems like a lot of people know, but I didn’t see it
OT: good news for dressage riders who feel the way I do about rollkur:
http://www.dressagedaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4889:fei-round-table-conference-resolves-rollkur-controversy&catid=334:february-2010
Excellent. While I’m so happy to read this article (and with the public outcry, I knew it would be coming), I will be even happier to see the rule enforced. We still have a long way to go to bring classical training back to the forefront, but this is a step in the right direction!
Its seriously sad that the -straw for food, euthing for no real reason or because of their own neglect , bad care , attacking others and people who complain being told to shut up is all so common everyone thinks its a rescue near them. Im with CMK I wish it was the one near us so they would finally have to really take care of the animals. But sounds like it could be a lot of other rescues as well.
Well I m not gonna shut up. I can’t say I’m for education and against neglect if I just pretend I don’t know the ins and outs of a fake rescue and let people assume they do what a rescue is supposed to do.
I realize everyone is busy with other laws pertaining to horses but there has to be something to protect the horses in rescue and sanctuary care. Really it’s time too many bad endings for the horses.
I googled Whispering Winds out of curiousity – first google result was a Catholic Camp and Conference Center – How ironic is that?
Fugs, called the state police after not hearing anything from good ole’ boy community AC officer. Got a great trooper who seemed very eager to find out exactly whats going on. He is supposed to follow up and get back to me. I’ll let you know what I find out.
After reading a name of an organization posted waaaay up at the top of the posts, I thought I’d check it out. I’d like to know what the hell a band (umm herd) or mares at a RESCUE is doing having to FIGHT for food?!?! I just couldn’t fathom that. “So and so wouldn’t fight for food so we had to move her in with a smaller band where she and two other mares share a stall and a pen with a shelter…” WTF?!?! I’ve got 3 rescues here, I’m not receiving a red cent of donations or gov’t funding and not a one of my 13 head on property has to figh with ANYTHING to get all the feed they want, be it hay, grain, salt/minerals, water…
PLLLLEAAAAASE SOMEONE OUT THIS FAILURE OF HUMANITY!!
Didn’t check a link or anything (my internet’s being moody so it’s always a crapshoot if stuff’s going to load) so take this with a grain of salt…but they may just mean that she was bottom of the pecking order and would just let herself get pushed away from the food so she wasn’t getting enough. I’ve seen horses that don’t get as much to eat because they’re on one of the lower rungs and nobody else wanted to share. I don’t know how many horses they had in that field to begin with but it could just be that there were more horses than space at the bale? Just throwing in my two cents
If the parable is accurate, and people are covering this up because it’s a “rescue”, I find that appalling. Perhaps these people who state they are rescues, should look up the definition and make sure that’s what they really want to name their “operation”.
Kind of off topic – I do not frequent any of these message boards referenced – and I sure don’t know what the initials stand for or where to find them. I would really appreciate if either a link could be added when specific threads are referenced, or if the name of the message board be shared so I or those interested in finding out the details could look it up. I might be able to make a better response if I had more info (probably not, but maybe). Thanks!
what is the ABF fourm?
What is it? FRIGHTENING.
The Alex Brown Racing Forum. Just google Alex Brown Racing, go to the sight and click on “discuss” at the top of the page. The Horse Rescue Issues are particularly entertaining, that is where all the beggars are soliciting funds for their latest rescue. I just found it myself, so I am not familiar with the terminology, but they seem to do a lot of “bumping” on there. (Crazy internet horse rescue cocaine? A lot of them seem to be on some kind of mind-altering drug). There seem to be some nice, legitimate people on there, but you really have to sift through the bleeding-heart sunshine and butterfly crazies to find them.
You can also check out the Barbaro Poems section where the cultists worship at the alter of Barbaro. Not that I am trivializing what happened to Barbaro, I think it is tragic and unnecessary that 2 and 3 year olds are breaking down on race tracks. But enough with the weepy poems and youtube tributes already. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last. Writing poems and crying years after the fact doesn’t help. Donating and volunteering does. If they want to honor him they should go to a legitimate rescue and muck a stall for a crippled racehorse in his honor. You see a lot of “fundraisers” for questionable rescues on there but not a lot of talk about hard work to rehab the same horses after the fact from those same people posting after they “bail them out of jail’ or whatever they call it.
thanks Twh
According to the State Trooper spoken with by MVR, the visit is scheduled sometime later this week..or next week! What happens if the evidence leaves the property?
One of the links to a message board is this one, but at this point in time the evidence has not been posted in its entirety. What you can see are horses in filth, running through junk, you name it:
http://icers.yuku.com
Multiple more pictures are available, they simply have not been made available on the internet.
Not much is posted on ABR as they are only finding out about it via this blog–attempts to inform them resulted in a banning of the poster doing so.
http://alexbrownracing.com
Shoot the messenger…THAT’S constructive!
Ok, I am sometimes slow-forgive me. There are 3 or 4 pictures posted on ICERS. THAT is supposed to be a rescue? Seeking accreditation (from WTF organization???)? These people are a 501(c)3 and soliciting donations for being a rescue? This is disgusting-it is simply batshit crazy people taking advantage of other naive (or batshit crazy) people AND providing poor animal care (the pictures show unacceptable pasture conditions). If the number of horses tossed around is even close to accurate, I’d call it a hoarding situation (you can quote me verbatim, Fugs).
But oh so typical.
This in from ALDF–
>>If animal control is in fact giving a local law enforcement officer preferential treatment (rather than just being sloppy in the way they phrased an email), then that’s a violation of professional ethics and a conflict of interest worthy to taking to the Sheriff or Chief (depending on who runs the AC unit in your county)<<
This in regards to the time frame quoted to State Trooper Randall as opposed to the timeframe given to others.
If the visit is delayed, it's because the county wants to give them all the time in the world to clean up so they won't have to deal.
and Fugly, I am past the point of caring. If you don't want the info put up, send me a private email, and let me know. Until then, I'm tired of pussyfooting around.
No, I don’t care. This board is pretty much a free-for-all, although if people don’t stop talking about hating other religions or why it’s a good thing to shoot abortion doctors, I may have to reconsider that. Come on, at least be extremist on topic. Please, people. You know when you are posting something out of line – resist the urge. The rules are pretty lax here, respect that and don’t make people want to hunt you down and strangle you.
Fugs: Did you get the video from the People’s Court regarding Kristina Early? I bring this up again, because in the comments after the verdict, Ms. Early says she didn’t get to present her evidence, and that, “there is another case [in addition to hers] against the Humane Society.” She alludes to the fact that the HSUS was wrong in their actions against her, and she uses this to try to defend herself. Trying to aspire to your investigative heights, I did some research and found that Kristina’s horses are being cared for by the Williamette Humane Society. Reading ABR, it seems that Whispering Winds has a problem with Scott Beckstead, State Director for the HSUS. Could there be a connection between these two? Is it just an odd coincidence that two “rescues” located only 2 hours apart, are blaming the Humane Society for their predicaments or is this a commonly used defense by wayward rescues??
If you haven’t gotten the vodeo of the PC, check it out on youTube. It’s worth the watch. i rewatched it again – yeah DVR!
I am just reading my email now but thank you!
Can you post that link? Thanks!
My favorite part is at the end where she cries “victim”. You can tell she actually believes it! Oh, and when she is walking down the hall and says “don’t ever help rescue a horse”. Way to represent the horse rescuing community, you sorry sack of shit. I wouldn’t piss in her ear if her brains were on fire.
“Come on, at least be extremist on topic.”
ROFL! (Even though I am occasionally an offender)
Ruthie
Amused, having lived for decades in western Oregon, from personal experience and knowledge I can assure you that whatever the ALDF says, local law enforcement either ignores completely (if they even KNOW about ALDF) or they in turn find it highly amusing. Why? Because Oregon DOES NOT GIVE A RAT’S A** about animals in general and horses in particular. Any “investigation” would be by “Internal Affairs” which appears to exist for the sole purpose of covering up or rubber-stamping certain law enforcement “activities” (and not just those relating to animal cruelty or neglect activities). IMHO the Oregon counties are among the most lazy, corrupt and politically motivated anywhere. The best anyone can hope for is to – as a group so multiple photos, hard evidence and eyewitness accounts including videos – get to an interested and committed local media reporter and not one who will be sympathetic to the abuser/hoarder. The BRIGHT GLARE OF POSSIBLY NEGATIVE PUBLICITY RE SLACKER COPS and high sustained energy (e.g., repeated badgering) is in the final analysis about the only thing that really “works.” And then you have to figure out how to deal with “re-rescues” who obtain seized animals under contract with uncaring local law enforcement agencies, who are seemingly uninterested in anything but their monthly payments – just like a lot of foster parents!
“The BRIGHT GLARE OF POSSIBLY NEGATIVE PUBLICITY RE SLACKER COPS and high sustained energy (e.g., repeated badgering) is in the final analysis about the only thing that really “works.”
Working on it!
Where will these horses go once they’re confiscated?
According to what I could find on this site:
http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/OR-NHTrainers.html
The person running said “Rescue” is also a Natural Horsemanship “Trainer”.
Her name is very, very familiar. If it’s the same person in that Natural Horsemanship advertisement, they used to reside somewhat near to me (within an hour). I will call a friend who is on that side of town and see what they have to say.
Fugly this is an OT inquire(you may delete post)
I just heard this woman in Enumclaw about 2 weeks ago was visited by AC(worst case for them)where many animals were taken and the rest were put down(by Dr Ross) or already dead.Last name Thomas possibly and she resides at 23525 se 448th in Enumclaw. I have seen a dead horse in her field before and called AC.They found dead chickens, llama,goats and or sheep.And almost all of the horses had to be put down, they were that bad. I hear shes facing felony charges.Thought you could look into this.Thanks!
Yes yes and yes. I haven’t verified she’s been charged yet but anyone could do so by looking online. The horses are safe and receiving excellent care. I don’t know much about the woman except she used to work for some high dollar TB farm, so people trusted her and gave her horses because of that? Love to hear more if any locals know the story. THANK YOU for calling A.C. — this is how those horses got help! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I mean, today’s case is a good example…I can tell you that the people who have tried to bring this person to justice have been harassed, threatened and more. That’s what you sometimes take on when you dare to report abuse/neglect and talk about it. Yet the ONLY way you can help the horses is by reporting. So huge kudos to those of you who have reported and run the risk of retaliation. You rock!
These are the horses that SAFE has two of, right? The pregnant draft and little quarter horse.
That address is listed as for sale:
http://www.karenarlt.com/listings/23525%20SE%20448th%20st/23525%20SE%20448th%20Street.htm
shes been there a couple years and thats the way the place used to look.I drive by it 4 times a day and theres no for sale sign, rumor is that her mom actually bought the place and she rents it.
I just read a great article on horse slaughter in Horse Illustrated. I was hoping that the article would hit on the important points. It did!! I couldn’t wait to tell you about it, then I saw that you wrote it.
Well done Cathy!!
Thank you.
I know this isn’t who is being discussed, but a well known government funded organization that’s running horses into the ground… Could be the BLM. Because you know euth is the right choice for a foal that had it’s hooves fall off is euthanizing. Just try to not let the public know they were the ones that ran the hooves off of them by chasing after them with helocopters.
Didn’t Joe at TBF comment on this sort of thing recently- about rescues needing to be saved by other rescues and how one shouldn’t go into it if they’re not (physically, emotionally, and financially) prepared to deal with all the pitfalls that come with the few accomplishments?
I haven’t a clue which faux-rescue is going to be put on the dumbass pedestal soon, but the situation does remind me of a horse dealer I know. Fed his animals crap, kept them in crappy conditions, and shot them if there was the possibility they would incur costs higher than the crappy couple grand he got for them. I was very happy when I heard some long overdue karma came and bit him in the ass.
Yeah, he did, because he’s one of the ones who has been doing the saving and I’m sure he is physically, emotionally and financially about at his limit! There have been a number of train wrecks in NorCal lately and more coming from what I hear.
This is perfect.
Totally unrelated to your post but I thought you might like it anyway….
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/grd/1592955665.html
Lets breed to a HYPP N/H Stallion for FREEE!!!!
The HYPP issue and the breeding-something-with-no-accomplishments-issue aside, I am completely BAFFLED at why the owners of a young stallion would give away breedings!
You are going to get every crappy mare within a 20 mile radius. Think about what the foals will look like. Is THAT what you want out there advertising your young, up-and-coming stud?
People are nuts.
No doubt about it we buy one load of hay for the hay bank and boom its gone and we need more right away.
I keep saying at least there are no mud slides… yet.
AND OLWS N/O!! Talk about a hitting the genetic disorder jackpot!
It’s a shame that people who aren’t fit to call themselves a rescue use the term so lightly. I mean, honestly…a five year old can figure out that when a rescue has horses who need rescuing from them, it’s NOT a rescue. Dear lord.
On another topic though, there was a horror case and a bunch of dead horses found on a property. The owner killed himself when the police came in and tried to arrest him. My mother relayed this story to me, and we both agreed we hardly cared the man killed himself. I can’t make sense of it. The horses had feed and hay IN THE BARN. He just wouldn’t give it to them, the sick pig. One poor horse died with it’s head in an empty water trough. WTF?! If you have feed, and access to water, WHY can’t you take care of the starving and dehydrated horses you own?!
You don’t have to even be a horsey person to be disgusted by such trash. My mother isn’t one, and is in fact terrified of them, even miniatures, and she was heartbroken about it, and disgusted with the owner.
This is the news page about it. It just burns me up. Thank god some of the horses survived that hell hole.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6988087/
And of course that news story starts out like this …..
Neighbors complained about it for months
What do you do when nobody listens and nobody cares
I am gonna start firing up the BSWT bus again .
I am just sooo beyond tired of it.
You get pics and go to the media. It’s all you can do. And at the very least, YOU have the satisfaction of knowing YOU did what you could. Sometimes that’s all you have but it’s better than nothing.
Multiple levels of FAIL here. Obviously the guy had a SEVERE emotional problem that crippled him as much as a broken leg would a normal person. Doesn’t make it RIGHT, but for GOD’S sake, who doesn’t figure shit like this out before it deteriorates like this?? I hope some horse-loving deputy dopeslaps the one who didn’t see anything wrong.
Fortunately our own sheriffs’ office includes a Mounted Patrol, and there are a couple of experienced horsepeople on the city police force, so at least there are some go-to people, which helps. Doesn’t mean that every case will get satisfactorily resolved, of course. The Amish, for instance. ‘Nuff said. Oh, and the 2-bit ghettobilly Badass Dog people who get pit mixes, mastiffs, rottweilers, etc. and tie ‘em out back. I’ve reported quite a few. Does no good, because they’re minimally fed, watered & have doghouses.
I am tired of everyone pussyfooting around here; the rescue we are discussing is WHISPERING WINDS EQUINE RESCUE!!! Run by Susan and Tom Pohlman. Here is a link to their website. http://www.whisperingwindsequinerescue.com They are located in Douglas County Oregon, just outside of Roseburg.
Some of the pictures being posted on other forums actually came with great personal danger for the person taking them.
Tom Pohlman came barreling out of his driveway to tailgate the person who stopped in the road to take photos of the horses standing in front, and the conditions of the property. Please note, this person was not trespassing, and remained in the vehicle on a public roadway and had no interaction, verbally or visually with anyone on the property.
Oh wait, it gets better, he followed this person for approximately 5 miles in an obvious attempt at intimidation.
Within the hour, the person who took the photos was informed by a Sheriff’s department representative that Mr. Pohlman, a reserve officer with the City of Winston PD, had used his position to run the license plate to find out who was stopped in the road in front of the property. Pohlman also ranted to Bartholomew that this person was the cause of several complaints that came in over the weekend, which she actually had nothing to do with.
Folks, this has been going on for a long time, so I have decided to provide you all with links or phone numbers to HSUS, who is doing a fine job of side stepping the whole affair, GFAS, who was the accrediting body that went out to do the inspection, The attorney general office for the state of Oregon, the state police for this area, the sheriff’s department, and Winston City P.D where Mr. Pohlman is a reserve officer (just in case I am not the only one who is upset by this abuse of the uniform).
Douglas County Sheriff: John Hanlin 541-440-4450
Douglas County Animal Control (541) 440-4328
Winston City Police Dept: 541-679-8704
Oregon State Police, Roseburg Area Command Lieutenant Douglas Ladd 541-440-3334
Office of the Attorney General:
Oregon Department of Justice
1162 Court Street NE (503) 378-4400
Charitable organizations and fundraisers Section of the Office of the Attorney General For information about charitable organizations and fundraisers contact the Charitable Activities Section in Portland at (971) 673-1880, fax (971) 673-1882, or email charitable.activities@doj.state.or.us
Adam Parascandola with HSUS is the lead on cruelty team aparascondola@hsus.org
Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries Patty A. Finch Executive Director
Tel: 1-928-472-1173
She should have stayed put in her car, and then when he came up to her window to harass/threaten her, she should have pepper-sprayed the bastard.
Now THAT, Cheri, I can agree with. Or taken photos of him tailgating her. Videos even. I think that the Flip video camera will be a VERY handy tool in documenting this crap, since it’s so tiny.
Thanks for finally outing this situation! Of course I’m not local….
Well that explains why the authorities are doing so much to protect the guy.
The photo-taker is keeping a log of all of this, right? If he does anything more out of line like this, she can take it to a lawyer. Running a plate without probable cause to believe that a crime happened (and reporting animal cruelty is not actually a crime, despite what some local agencies seem to believe) is a borderline illegal search (I know for a fact that police ethics rules around here prohibit it, but I’m not sure that’s spelled out for other local law enforcement in other states, or if its enough of an intrusion to support a claim), and if he escalates the behavior you’ll have a claim that will make someone take notice. 1983 and 4th amendment violations go to federal court, not the local boys club.
One of the national marijuana lobbies put together a video about not consenting to searches called The Right Way to Handle a Police Stop, which you can find on youtube. I don’t know if someone who isn’t worried about the police smelling their pot needs to take all those particular steps, but the part about specifically and emphatically not consenting to searches is good to keep in mind if your ‘peace officer’ tries to abuse his authority to intimidate people in the future- you want to make sure you don’t inadvertently consent to his conduct in the name of cooperating with law enforcement.
Well if you don’t cooperate you get tasered. Just ask the UO student who was in his own apartment legally when a spiteful neighbor turned him in for being there “illegally.” That one’s still making the rounds of the locals and guess what? “Internal Affairs” rubber-stampedthe police action!
From what I can tell, that situation happened in September- still plenty of time to file a civil suit, especially if they’re waiting to see the results of the citizens review board (hey, if you’re following that, can you shoot me a link when you find a story that covers what the CRB handed down? It’s my comment user name (at) gmail.com… I’m curious).
If an officer threatens you with a taser, you aren’t consenting anymore- you are reacting to physical force. At that point, doing what the crazy man says until you can get to a real law enforcement officer is probably the best course of action.
Has anyone that has pictures/videos contacted national media? Animal abuse, corruption, abuse of power, intimidation, possible misuse of government funds (they are 501(c) aren’t they?), this sounds like something that would get eaten up in a media circus. Contact enough people with the right evidence and I’m sure someone would pick up the story.
Well good luck with that. I can pretty much guarantee anyone who tilts at the entrenched local donut-snarfing coffee-suckers will be disrespected, dismissed, discredited and maybe even retaliated against. Repeat after me until you understand this: COPS PROTECT THEIR OWN. My late father was a cop. My family is largely military. I don’t hate cops but am always dismayed at the poor quality of law enforcement these days.
And if HSUS will ignore multiple witness reports of animal torture and murder, they will likely laugh off anything about a rescue’s activities – even a “faux” rescue.
>>I can pretty much guarantee anyone who tilts at the entrenched local donut-snarfing coffee-suckers will be disrespected, dismissed, discredited and maybe even retaliated against.<<
Like that's NEW for me?
At this point there's nothing left to do to me except shoot me and if someone shoots me for trying to help horses, I figure I'll get a polo tournament named after me, which would be awesome.
Fugly, What can people do who WANT to help, but don’t want to risk personal attacks? I can’t help but feel that there are MANY people who would step up to the plate if they didn’t have to worry about their pets and children at home, or their own personal safety. What can locals do in this situation??
It’s admirable and heroic for people to be able to say, “I’m outing this person, no matter what may happen to me.” But for some of us, that just isn’t an option. Are we just destined to be the frustrated wanna-be’s?
The media will keep their sources confidential. Animal control, not always. We’ve seen that fail, even though it should not. Therefore, it may be safer to go to the media!
Still waiting to hear on that. Most likely we will never hear about them failing to pass accreditation. It is all super secret confidential spy type shit you know, lol.
I thought of California Horse Protecion when I read this as well. Supper was so lucky you were able to re-rescue her. She was a sweetie & is always remembered. The sand pile is still called Supper’s Sandpile. There are so many horrendous rescues. I wish we could get them all shut down & give the horses better options. But realistically we can only do what we can do.
SunValleySally–I used to live in Eastern Oregon so I am aware of the type you are discussing–but this goes beyond the pale.
The situation stands like this–this rescue was inspected by an agency for the “accreditation for rescues” by someone with whom most of us are familiar in regards to 3 Strikes. This agency urges accountability, transparency, and the excellent care of animals at their sanctuaries. I find it EXTREMELY ironic that while urging transparency, accountability, etc that their confidentiality policies include refusing to file an official report for the neglect of horses! I AM holding off on naming it currently only because I am holding some forlorn hope that something is going to be found on a supposed walk through today (although i am starting to wonder if we were only told that to try to hold us off –a State Trooper was told yesterday the walkthrough was going to be held this week–or the next–so why the discrepancy in what the concerned public is being told vs. a brother law enforcement agency?) A “recommendation ” was made for the voluntary release of 40 horses ranging in body scale from 1.5-4 to the ACO listed above, Lee Batholomew.
Because it was not an official report, merely a recommendation, ACO will not act.
HSUS was called but they can only come into a county where invited by law enforcement.
So what we have in a nutshell is that HSUS will not come in unless invited, an invitation won’t be issued unless an official report is filed, and due to the confidentiality policies of the organization doing the inspection accreditation, an official report can’t be filed.
Keep in mind these things:
This “rescue” and I use the term loosely, has had complaints filed by local citizens over the last few years. AC can’t even keep track of them all.
Pictures, emails sent from the owner herself, you name it…records have all been kept.
Documents and logging in of every incident has occurred by local citizens nearby, while they have been vilified, slammed and threatened by the person running the so called rescue. Other private citizens have also filed complaints over the conditions of the horses seen from the road.
To top it all off–this rescue IS a 501(c)(3) charity, licensed by the government to solicit donations. If no charges are filed, she will keep her cherished 501(c)(3) status and keep soliciting donations while neglecting more horses. This HAS to stop somewhere and the agencies in charge of doing so are all sort of passing the buck, hoping that it will blow over as the evidence is sent off of the property.
If there is no evidence…then no case. With no case, this woman keeps her charitable status as recognized by the government, and is free to continue soliciting donations from ignorant donors. And make no mistake about it, she is one of the few rescues with national donors who give out major money. Her property was funded by a 50,000 dollar donation from one such major donor–whom she burned.
So the accreditation group I assume- GFAS doesn’t report neglect , and that the GFAS uses other rescues to inspect new applicants.
Well that all sounds like a great idea , what could possibly go wrong ?
Oh I know ALL OF IT.
Well, I wouldn’t count them out yet but like I say, if I don’t see criminal charges in 2 weeks, then I’ll count them out. We’ll see what happens.
To quote their website homepage: “Doing God’s work for God’s creatures” . Early in ’09 they got lots of exposure on the ABR forums with the story of Carson, a mustang foal rejected by his dam. He came down with a systemic infection of some type, nearly died more than once, etc. etc. If you follow ABR at all, you know how the FOBs *love* those imperiled babies–the donations poured in. I didn’t donate, but he sure was cute in the video they posted on Utube, frolicing in his little purple blankie donated by an FOB. On the WWER site there’s a recent brief progress note on Carson, but now I wonder how he’s really doing….
Doing God’s work?
Maybe they are like St Peter for horses?
The next state they open up in they should call their rescue -God’s waiting room for equines-
Regarding Carson (and the other foals that DID die there last year – per their own website) – anyone stop to consider whether the basic lack of animal husbandry had anything to do with those deaths or rejections? Most rescues would separate a pregnant mare and give her a safe place to foal. Not leave her in a group of 40, 50 or 60 other horses, to drop a foal in the mud, to run the risk of a foal being trampled, or a more dominant horse to chase the mare off, not allowing the foal to nurse…. I could go on and on.
These vets are professionals and bound by ethics, but I would sure love to hear what they say about the quality of care little Carson received.
And for those of you who suggested that she may have “hoarder tendencies,” this article might tell you something, in which she proudly proclaims in an interview how she was running 17 horses on 3 acres in Portland:
http://www.riovida.net/channels/Outdoor/mustang_rally/friend.html
Ignore that small note about “selling our house ” to do this full time..it was actually in the process of being foreclosed on. She had no choice but to leave. I still have an email in my possession that states that instead of declaring bankruptcy they would opt for foreclosure, because that would give them 6-8 months to get out and filing would hasten the process to 60 days. (You can bet that she didn’t tell the donor that part of the story–instead it was, “I have to put the first offer down!”) I also have the foreclosure listing available.
This is a good example of why SOME ENTITIES believe veterinarians should be doing inspections of this sort. That was not the case in this situation.
While I don’t see that as something that would solve every problem, veterinarians have responsibilities that are often legally delineated and the entities to which they answer differ (they are not GFAS, or other welfare organizations), and failure to report neglect/abuse can have disciplinary consequences at the state/licensure level, and is now mandated by AVMA. Having said that, veterinarians and other inspectors, investigators can only document, examine, and provide reports/make recommendations. Filing of charges depends on local law enforcement, and that seems to be what is at issue in this case.
A complete investigation needs to be done including a search for carcasses and on site disposal. Traffic in and out of this farm should have been monitored from the time GFAS became involved and AC was notified, these are basic requirements of this type of investigation. If local law enforcement and AC cannot handle that God help the people living in that county-what the hell are their taxes being spent on.
“If local law enforcement and AC cannot handle that..” or if they CHOOSE not to handle that because it’s simply cheaper….
Sweetlilllena–they are aware that arrangements are being made to ship horses out, and they don’t care. The problem is that at least one of the homes that we know about is one of her approved fosters, meaning that she stands every chance to get the horse back as soon as this blows over.
This is what makes us wonder if they are hoping that the evidence vanishes so that they don’t have to clean up the mess, and leaves her free to continue her government sanctioned fundraising. That’s why these phone calls at this juncture in time are so important.
Douglas County Sheriff: John Hanlin 541-440-4450
Douglas County Animal Control (541) 440-4328
Winston City Police Dept: 541-679-8704
Oregon State Police, Roseburg Area Command Lieutenant Douglas Ladd 541-440-3334
Office of the Attorney General:
Oregon Department of Justice
1162 Court Street NE (503) 378-4400
Charitable organizations and fundraisers Section of the Office of the Attorney General For information about charitable organizations and fundraisers contact the Charitable Activities Section in Portland at (971) 673-1880, fax (971) 673-1882, or email charitable.activities@doj.state.or.us
Adam Parascandola with HSUS is the lead on cruelty team aparascondola@hsus.org
Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries Patty A. Finch Executive Director
Tel: 1-928-472-1173
Yikes, I quit mid sentence.
“Hopefully, said organizations now have an objective view of the situation, and if people bring pressure to bear on the Charitable organization designation (particularly troubling is the failure to separate personal horses from rescue horses on the books and failure to use funds for intended purposes-this can seemingly be documented, in addition to the whole unsavory mess of living conditions for the horses).”
That was supposed to say that hopefully the HSUS, GFAS, and other orgs. that donated to WWER have had their eyes opened to what this mess really is (hoarding, not rescue). Further, for people to bring pressure on the staet to revoke their 501(c)3 status by documenting deceptive practices like using donated funds to maintain their own horese and soliciting funds for purposes and then not using the funds for those purposes (but you have to prove it).
Please tell me your’re not comparing a priest molesting children to a bad horse owner?
I don’t see the funny nor wit in that. Nice try though. I hope you, nor or children are ever molested. Shudders.
I’m comparing a cover-up to a cover-up. I’m not sure you understand the analogy being made, but everybody else seems to.
I have NO DOUBT that is exactly the case (cover up by local AC and law enforcement). HOWEVER, there is NOTHING that GFAS or HSUS can do unless local AC and law enforcement are willing to involve them and to investigate. HSUS and GFAS (and every other similar organization) have NO jurisdiction over anything. That MUST come from local law enforcement-welfare entities can only be involved if law enforcement invites that.
Thus people’s energy needs to be directed toward OR law enforcement and the State Vet’s office rather than HSUS and GFAS at this time. It needs to be directed at the food chain level higher up than the local guys investigating this (or not, as seems the case). You (the big YOU not the personal you) need to look at your state (usually Ag & Markets) laws and local laws to determine what the minimum care standards are for OR. Most states have a law for horses and livestock (which horses are usually legally classified as) that lays this out (usually provision of food, water, and in some states shelter, although shelter clauses tend not to be enforced). Note that the adequacy and condition of the food and water is usually a gray area, subject to interpretation by the state (or other designated) veterinarians. If those standards are being met, then it is not possible to prove charges of neglect (property condition DOES NOT COUNT), and charges are unlikely to be filed. This is just that simple.
Thus, what is needed is PROOF of emaciated horses, injured, dead, diseased horses. Energy needs to be leveled at the authorities in OR and in that county and at the state vet to conduct an investigation NOW to determine what the situation is. If the state vet has been there in the last week, then I suspect he has drawn some conclusion that he will make a public statement about. If the state or other vets have not been out then perhaps the state vet can tell everyone why that has not occurred?????
Hopefully your letters to the editor will be published and local or state media can focus attention on this very disturbing situation (believe me I find it disturbing that national organizations were supporting this pair of lunatics). Hopefully, said organizations now have an objective view of the situation, and if people bring pressure to bear on the Charitable organization designation (particularly troubling is the failure to separate personal horses from rescue horses on the books and failure to use funds for intended purposes-this can seemingly be documented, in addition to the whole unsavory mess of living conditions for the horses).
Focusing energy on these things is the only thing that will be productive at this point.
Ok, I scream uncle already! The longer comment was supposed to be a reply to Amused and the shorter one (which did go as a reply to Amused) references where I drifted in the longer comment.
Okay some basics here. FIRST, State Vets do not typically have any connection with abuse cases. “Eeets naaahhhht my jawwwwwb.” The State Vets’ responsibilities include monitoring food animal health issues and zoonotic diseases (look it up). Second, most private practice vets are AAEP members and thus are PRO SLAUGHTER which means they consider neglect cases and abuse cases and hoarding cases to be THE BEST argument for bringing back US-based equine slaughter plants. Plus, many if most absolutely DO NOT want to become involved in these cases. Third and MOST importantly, state laws are only as good as law enforcement decides them to be. Oregon law enforcement appears to me to be lazy, corrupt and completely uncaring (AND they protect their own).
For those wanting to know what various acronyms stand for, alphabet soup can be successfully decoded at acronyms.thefreedictionary.com.
How odd. One of my colleagues just had to go out and do this very thing! Hint: he is a state vet, and yes they do investigations.
Your impression of What State vets do is pretty oversimplified, and actually this differs between states. Their focus is usually animal and public health within their state’s borders. They can and do perform state regulatory functions, and develop and aid in enforcement of state laws relating to animals. USDA veterinarians monitor animal health and disease (zoonotic and non-zoonotic) , and not limited to food animals (they are responsible for import/export and and all movement that is regulated interstate and international (again animal-even small animal/exotic and public health issues). Some state office vets are USDA employees (and their focus is on health/regulatory issues that are national rather that limited to the state) and some per-se are not. Many private practitioners are USDA-accredited, allowing them to perform some USDA-mandated regulatory functions (some examples are drawing and submitting Coggins tests and completing interstate health papers). Thus there is some overlap among these entities.
Relevant to this post, sometimes state vets are involved in these cases (often they are not, that is true), and sometimes private practitioners are involved. I understand that a vet (referred to as a “state vet”) has (perhaps historically, the time-line unclear) has already inspected this disaster. Just FYI, we have state vets that deal exclusively with horses, and it would not be unusual for someone like that to be contacted in a serious neglect scenario. Even if they were not on site, they might be in close contact with an onsite vet if there were infectious disease/reportable disease concerns.
I know many AAEP members that are not proslaughter, and I know many who accompany law enforcement on such inspections (regardless on their opinions regarding whether slaughter is humane or whether they believe it is necessary). I also know many that do this, or anything regarding welfare issues at no charge. Unfortunately there are some very vocal AAEP members that are special-interest driven and they are outspokenly pro-slaughter. People should keep in perspective what AAEP is-it was historically a continuing education entity, and it is simply one organized veterinary medical group with a species-specific CE focus.
All laws are only as good as the enforcement afforded in upholding them, and that is what everyone needs to try and influence here. This is about getting enforcement to occur, because in the absence of achieving that NOTHING is going to occur on that property other than the ongoing disgusting excuse for horse management.
Dear Susan,
GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK & ICERS and get your ass outside to separate out the starving horses on your property so that you can feed them. If you still insist on sitting on your wide ass behind the computer all day, might I suggest researching the UC Davis feeding program? When you’re done with that, pull up some information on parasite control.
And this is why people like this need to be outed in more ways than one when they have a 501(c)(3) status. This blog is proud to mention that they are funneling funds through Whispering Winds Equine Rescue.
So..what we have here is a rescue who cannot/is not feeding their own horses, a rescue which, as Fugly can verify, was referred to as “similar to a 3 Strikes” scenario by the officials currently involved in the investigation, yet she can find time to funnel funds through a PayPal account for others?
http://blog.chillypeppermiraclemustang.com/2009/08/18/chilly-pepper-miracle-mustange–equine-rescue–more.aspx
Do these people do NO research before they do these things?
These horses need to be out of there, the reports filed, and this woman needs to lose her charitable organization status. Seriously. It is now 13 days into it and the horses have not been moved by ACO, HSUS, GFAS, or any other less than charitable acronym of which I can currently think.
Please, Fugly readers..take the time to call these numbers and file a complaint. We have to get action and stop this woman in her tracks.
Douglas County Sheriff: John Hanlin 541-440-4450
Douglas County Animal Control (541) 440-4328
Winston City Police Dept: 541-679-8704
Oregon State Police, Roseburg Area Command Lieutenant Douglas Ladd 541-440-3334
Office of the Attorney General:
Oregon Department of Justice
1162 Court Street NE (503) 378-4400
Charitable organizations and fundraisers Section of the Office of the Attorney General For information about charitable organizations and fundraisers contact the Charitable Activities Section in Portland at (971) 673-1880, fax (971) 673-1882, or email charitable.activities@doj.state.or.us
Adam Parascandola with HSUS is the lead on cruelty team aparascondola@hsus.org
Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries Patty A. Finch Executive Director
Tel: 1-928-472-1173
I’m going to call the television station, KPIC, back again today.
Is there a school where they teach this artful scamming shit? Sweet Jesus! It is hard to believe people actually send money to them. How can ANYONE in the horse industry read this stuff and not have their eyes roll back in their heads???