Shopped and…not shopped
Feb 03 2010
Guess which is which!
Show record:
15 APHA points in Halter & Color! 3 APHA Points in Hunter Under Saddle!
105 PtHA points in Halter and Color!!!
Reserve World Champion Halter Pinto World 2007!!
World Champion Tobiano Color Pinto World 2008!!
3rd Place Open English Pleasure Futurity 2008!!
Um, this is why people make fun of horse shows and say they are stooopid. Because the Spotted Hunchback is out there winning. People DO come to the shows in person, you know, and bring their cameras. What are they supposed to think when they see mutant horse there in the second pic? At least it is a gelding, but still.
You can take an unflattering pic of any horse – I could make any world champion look like a crap from some angle if I tried – but even at worst, it shouldn’t look like a camel!
This is kind of the problem with a lot of the color registries – Pinto, Buckskin, Palomino. You have some really super nice, outstanding individuals showing at those shows. Then you have stuff where you just go, what is that and why did someone think breeding to make that happen was a good idea?…and sometimes it has all kinds of titles on it. I may not agree with everything that the judges like in AQHA, APHA, the Arab shows, etc. but at least there is more consistency. Why do you think the color registry shows are so all over the place like this? Is it because they’re so all-breed that there’s just too much of a mix of opinions among the judges? I still don’t understand how you can think that’s a halter champion, no matter what your breed of choice is.
And, oh yeah, don’t shop your horse to the point where its picture looks nothing like it. You don’t want the real version to be a disappointment. Ask anyone who has ever seen Pamela Anderson running around Malibu without makeup!
264 comments to “Shopped and…not shopped”
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Even in the “shopped” photo the rider looks ready to pitch over his head any moment. Yikes…winning? How?
I don’t think the image is real. If you zoom in on the picture, and look closely at the horse and rider, the whole thing looks fake.
Isn’t that what’s called a “roach back?” And a pretty severe one? He’s not gonna grow out of that!
And it’s not just some trick of the lighting, either, I pulled the pic myself and checked it out, and he really is built that way.
That is EXACTLY why I don’t care about breed shows. Give me performance any day.
And no wonder the rider looks like they’re about to fall on his neck in the first picture. How the hell do you find a saddle to fit that??
Doesn’t she, though? Now he’s only 3 in the pic, I believe, so it’s fair that he might still be downhill and growing, but still! She looks like she is about to go ass-over-teakettle over his ears. I’m not blaming the rider, I don’t think I could sit straight on that back, either. At the very least I’d let him grow another year and see if he became more level, but after seeing the “candid” pic, I just see another overfed train wreck that will be lucky if he is rideable and sound in five years.
Yeah, even if his front end grows that dip behind his withers isn’t going away. Never mind the post legs.
To be fair, it looks like the really weird dent in his back (a few inches behind the withers, in the lowest section of his back) is actually a dark patch that wraps up from the other side. I think. If I look really close. It’s still a terrible topline, but at least he’s not about to break in the middle like that picture implies. This is the hazard of photographing paints in bad lighting!
Precisely. The second photo is probably not representative. Brighten and contrast it in photoshop, look at the pixels very, very closely and you’ll see what I mean. First, as Melissa notes, the horse has a dark color over his spine that blends into the background, enhancing the impression that his back dips.
Furthermore, moving backward towards his tail, his all-white croup area (IIRC) intersects with a similarly white light coming from the door beyond the horse. This picture was shot in a very low-light situation. What the camera can’t see, it can’t render completely accurately. This low light situation caused the camera to be unable to distinguish between the croup and the door area, so that these areas of the photo are almost fused, pixel-wise. That makes it appear that his croup is higher than it naturally appears.
It’s not photoshopped, but it’s not a particularly accurate rendering as far as our eyes are concerned. This is one case where an untouched camera rendering is a “lie” (of sorts) and the photoshopped version (where the horse itself does not appear to have been manipulated) is more representative. I’m not saying the horse is flawless. I am saying that he appears much worse in the “candid” shot than he probably is, in life.
The saddle won’t have to fit long. Poor thing will be lame before he’s 7 anyway, built like that. I get he’s young, but I don’t see growing completely out of that. Personally, I don’t think it should halter and win if you can’t ride it for many years. They should have to be usably sound to halter.
Holy camel hump! Maybe Dean Solomon does his photoshop. She knows how to get rid of a big ass!
BWAHAHHAAHA!!! That is hilarious!
World Champion!?! Wow. I know a horse built a million times better than that and she just gives lessons at a barn. I’ll need to tell her owner that she could be a world champion ;o) (j/k)
http://www.wildponybeast.blogspot.com
lol That’s exactly what I was thinking!
Oh man, please tell me he just got done taking a piss, and someone snapped the pic. Please tell me he doesnt actually look like that.
wow………………………………………………………………………….
I had that thought for a moment, too, but I think he’d still be hangin’ out if he had just finished and was still in that stretchy phase. And I don’t know about your boys, but mine stretch their back legs way out behind when they pee – they do not want to be splashed! The VLC stands on his hind tip-toes, he’s trying so hard not to pee on himself, lol.
Yeah, your right. Mine stretch out behind too. Just cannot believe they would take him to a show at all. He really looks uncomfortable as well. He has his ears pinned. Probably hurtin………
My gelding doesn’t always run his equipment all the way out to pee. Sometimes he barely even moves his feet. He doesn’t seem to mind peeing on himself….I know, I know…What a pig! Soooo….not all geldings are going to be stretched out and hangin loose.
. . .That horse looks like a halloween cat with its back arched up. How weird looking!! HOW does it place in halter? Thank God its a gelding.
He doesn’t look like he could pick his head up past his withers. At least he is a gelding. I thought the head-on-the-ground-rider-about-to fall-forward look was en vogue for the western-pleasure-in-an-english-saddle classes? If this horse really is a APHA World Champ, the APHA is a freakin joke.
He’s a Pinto (PtHA) world champion, not Paint (APHA). Pinto is much less competitive than Paint, but again, there are some super nice horses showing at the Pinto circuit shows. That’s the weirdness to me. Nice horse, nice horse, nice horse and then WTF IS THAT in the same class. Much more so than you see at Paint, QH, Arab, etc.
15 APHA points in Halter and Color. Halter judges conformation, no? He is a bizzare looking animal. Is this hunchback thing some kind of birth defect or did he inherit it from his parents?
But he has HALTER POINTs in APHA, too! No, the breed show judges don’t get a pass on this one. Who can’t see the DEFORMITY of this horse’s spine? Did someone breed Miss Camel?
Wow even in the photo shopped image looks bad, I mean come on who sits that far forward? Someone that is severely in need of some medical help for the lack of restroom use?!
Notice most of the points are pinto points….there’s a reason for that. I know for a fact that would never place in halter in AQHA. My mare is exactly what you want in a performance halter horse and trust me, she looks nothing like that. If you look at the “ideal” horse, she is very close. THAT is what you want in AQHA and, from what I’ve seen, the conformation on that paint would not make it very far in APHA either. What part of the country is this horse in? Some states have quite a bit less as far as horse quality goes.
He’s in Florida, but you know, World is World…he had to compete against horses from all over. And I don’t think of Florida as a not-competitive part of the country … although I’m no expert on Pinto competition.
Oh ok….I don’t know anything about that part of the country…
I think using the term “World” for a national show is most arrogant.
kirrri, I am with you. At the risk of annoying baseball fans, I think the same about the “World Series”.
Yep, but that’s how us Americans roll
Plus, I think, at least at APHA/AQHA shows, any horse registered with the organization, regardless of the nation it’s in, is welcome to participate. But if I’m wrong, please correct me.
You’re right.
The good thing I see here, though, is that the horse is OBVIOUSLY broke, obviously quite rideable, and what would good conformation do if it wasn’t being ridden? I’ve seen a lot of nice horses in the real world and on this blog that are, like, 5, have decent, open and 4H show quality conformation that are untouched. I say that’s a lot more sad that a horse that’s showing, has somewhat of a record, and shouldn’t. It looks like the kind of horse I’d trust to pack my child around. That’s saying something, especially on this blog!!
I always think an unbroke adult horse is sadder than a broke adult horse, unless of course the broke horse was started at 16 months which is kind of a toss up to me…it’ll probably have soundness problems but it’s still less likely to die early in a slaughterhouse than the unstarted four year old. It’s still true that horses who are ridden through the auction pen are at less risk. Plenty still ship, but riding them through increases their odds they will be purchased by a private party.
But given that topline, I just don’t see how he’d stay pain-free to ride for any amount of time. How are you going to fit a saddle to that? The “hill” there puts so much pressure on the shoulders. I would not place bets on the horse staying rideable for long.
That’s a good point. I was only trying to point out that, hell, it’s better for them to be showing that than letting it sit around in a field and then trying to sell it for $300 as green broke at, like, 6!! Poor horse… I kind of feel bad for him…It’s hard to tell from pictures, but it APPEARS he has a good mind with how soft his eyes are. It’s a shame.
That there is quite a travesty of conformation. I mean. Wow.
Agreed! It’s astonishing that the owner(s) would even consider showing it, it is so grotesque. Remember that black mare at the so-called rescue (whose horses had to be re-rescued by, I think, Shiloh) – she had the same camel-back, and the air-head rescuer had *bred* her – head-desk time . . . And positively criminal that the judges made this gelding a halter *champion*! Will breeders now start adding a hump-back to the post legs, vertical pasterns, teeny-weeny feet, humongous rear and snaky neck they take such pride in now? God help us!
Hi…sorry…off topic, but wanted to put this out there in case there is anyone in Los Angeles who can help two horses found stray and currently at one of the Los Angeles City Shelters:
A1084338 25 year old equine bay female Thoroughbred A1084339 15 year old equine gray male Arabian
Found Stray together NOT AT NORTH CENTRAL THEY ARE AT NORTH EAST (CLOSED TO PUBLIC) If interested in rescuing them or adopting them please email me I will forward email to supervisor in North East Valley
Anna Hernandez
NEW HOPE COORDINATOR
Los Angeles Animal Services
North Central Division
3201 Lacy St.
Los Angeles Ca. 90031
Shelter (213)485-5767 (preferred)
Fax (213)847-0555
Cell (213)305-4096
Business Hours Tues-Sat. 8-5
Email: Ani.newhopenc@lacity.org
http://www.laanimalservices.com ( http://www.laanimal services. com/ )
You can now follow NOCs’ MPA’s
on http://twitter. com/AnnaLAASNOC
Anna Hernandez
NEW HOPE COORDINATOR
Los Angeles Animal Services
North Central Division
3201 Lacy St.
Los Angeles Ca. 90031
Shelter (213)485-5767 (preferred)
Fax (213)847-0555
Cell (213)305-4096
Business Hours Tues-Sat. 8-5
Email: Ani.newhopenc@lacity.org
http://www.laanimalservices.com
You can now follow NOCs’ MPA’s
on http://twitter. com/AnnaLAASNOC
I really want to do something for those horses too, particularly the old Thoroughbred, but I’m at personal capacity. I’d love to hear someone took them!
Wow, that’s really weird, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like that, how on earth was that horse PLACING in the shows, much less WINNING!? He does have a cute face though, looks a lot like my paint gelding Gunner, pictured in my avatar.
http://horsefilleddays.blogspot.com/
Oh my gosh, that horse is a freak!!!! It bends my brain to think that he is actually a winning show horse!!!
As for Pamela Anderson, I had no idea that she is so pretty. I used to think that she was wearing pancake make-up to disguise an ugly face. There are many forty two year old women, who would cheerfully kill to look as good as Pamela without make-up. So why is she in an article about a freaky looking horse?
Well, you could consider her usual makeup to be photoshopping of a sort. It’s mainly the difference between what she really looks like, to what she wants us to *think* she looks like. Hollywood does not reward looks that don’t fit their false stereotype of female beauty. Meh.
I’m with you, kippen. I thought that picture of Pamela Anderson showed a pretty woman. I certainly wish I’d looked that good at 43! Certainly far from a freak.
I’d like to see a decent conformation pose of the horse. He could be a roachy freak or he could be not that bad and just caught in a weird position.
I’m not certain his hindquarters were fixed via PhotoShop; I think there’s a good chance that the picture was taken from his most flattering angle. That sort of 3/4 shot with his head so far down makes him look fairly normal.
A good pose to judge conformation from is under normal lighting, horse’s head up in a position of mild interest (not half asleep or wannabe stallion spotting a mare) and the legs standing properly. The legs closest to the camera should be perpendicular to the ground from knee to fetlock and hock to fetlock; the legs on the far side should be lined up in a normal position. The tail should be in a normal position, not obscuring the leg closest to the camera. The camera should be even with a point about halfway down the horse’s shoulder and far enough back so that the horse is not distorted.
I think it’s possible that the horse today could be a lot better than the halter shot of him and could perhaps qualify for a “don’t make your horse look like THIS” example. I’d really need to see a proper conformation shot to be sure.
The horse is definitely downhill.. and unfortunately, the markings on the horse contribute to it looking particularly unbalanced.. the hip is high and rounded.. the neck looks too thin and gets chopped off look to it due to the horse’s head being dark. Many of the points were in Pinto.. which is not generally as high caliber as AQHA or APHA showing. Several of the awards/points seem to be either in color classes.. or when the horse was 2 or younger.. and we know how horse’s can go through an ugly duck phase! Of course, the “ad quality” photo’s are at an angle that would most flatteringly show the horse.. but as far as photoshopping good conformation.. I think it is really just a case of good pic/angle vs bad pic/angle.
Look again. The “hip” doesn’t start in the middle of the back. The horse has a ROACH BACK. He is deformed. It’s great that he manages to perform, but any judge who cannot see the incredible anatomical issues here should have his/her card pulled.
I wonder if somebody just smacked him on the ass or something? Are there any other conformation shots of him (non Photoshopped) elsewhere on the internet? That just doesn’t seem like something even a moron judge would place!!
Off Topic – But I’m urgently trying to help a friend place 2 nice horses in IL, Chicago-Area. One is a 15yo 17.1hh TB with a B show record in Hunters, mainly on the flat. Intermittent lameness issues and has basically been a pasture puff for last 4 years but hasn’t taken a lame step since summer and was sound w/t/c for me and a 6yo taking an up/down lesson. Easy keeper for his size, great in a herd, and sound for a lower level lesson program. more details and pics available.
Also available 5/6yo registered, with papers, unbroke Arab mare.
email me at noraendzel at aol.com for more info!
There is a correlation between the butt high conformation you are seeing at so many AQHA halter classes now and an incredibly harsh riding, impossible to collect, horse. Form to function is what we all should strive to breed for and this horse is bad form in all possible ways. Regardless that he is safe, he will be HORRIBLE to ride. Thank god I don’t have to ride this horse, even around a pasture.
It’s not one I would chose either, even for a trail horse.
I know! I own a downhill horse! He is not fun to ride at all. In fact he is the very last horse I pull out to ride and then only if I have guests who are riding my other horses and I want to ride too. Hell, I’d rather hitch up the donkey to his cart and drive him! He was my first horse, I purchased him when he was six years old and had flunked out as a barrel racer – duh. He was unable to gather his rear end underneath himself to make those fast stops and turns, he stopped on his front end causing extra pain to himself and his rider. He is now 23 years old, fat and happy that he is not asked to do anything beyond a short ride once or twice a year. I’m happy to retire him, I never thought to sell him. He is such a sweet boy but I was always afraid he would be sold over and over and end up in a bad place due to his uncomfortable ride.
The first photo is indeed an excellent use of flattering photos to hide faults. That head on riding picture hides the problems. And I am aghasted that such a deformed parody of a horse can win in halter.
sagebeasties.blogspot.com
Holy Hunchback! I think that horse could be a movie star! That is if the X-files were still on. I mean can’t you just see some weird, scary monster clawing its way out of that hump?
Seriously, it is sad looking. I’m far from a conformation expert but even I can’t imagine ever placing that horse in any kind of halter class. I sure would love to hear from the judge(s) who placed him and find out what they were thinking???
Good god that horse looks constipated! I wanna know what those judges were smoking when they put a ribbon on that thing. That must have been one BAAAAAD trip!
The horse has a roach back (remember the Friesian/camel cross mare?) but like a sway back it has little if any effect on the horse’s ability to function (unlike a person would). It just looks TERRIBLE. But regardless it has NO business placing in any halter class unless it was the only one in there and then the judge should withhold first!
From the front it looks like any other western “english” horse to me. Well it is actually “trotting” so that might be a problem… Oh and it has color which could really be a problem in the APHA! 8-D
I’ll add another Thank God it’s a gelding though!
Um…a horse is supposed to trot in hunter under saddle. Been to a show with a HUS class lately? They trot. If they don’t, they don’t place.
Sorry QH snob but that jogtrot peanut rolling slow creep around the ring that the AQHA, App and Paint shows call a trot in HUS classes is NOT my idea of a real working trot. This horse is actually very close to a real two beat gait which means he’d be “too fast” for most judges. But I agree the hunter world is starting to look disturbingly like the stock classes lately.
Well, then we’ll have to agree to disagree because the shows I’ve been to HUS requires a two beat flowing trot and it is acceptable for the poll to be slightly above the withers. If the poll sinks below the withers, I have seen judges place those horses low or not at all. Yes, there neck is lower than a thoroughbred’s, but that’s because they’re built that way while a thoroughbred is not.
And most quarter and paint horses who do english and not western are not western horses…..they do not have “jog” in their makeup, or lope…again…I think you’re missing something!! Yes, the crossovers go back to what most of them know: lope in a HUS class when they get tired…but I’ve seen worse with a thoroughbred at a hunter show soooo….
My point is, that horse would never ever ever be acceptable at ANY stock horse show I’ve ever been to!!!
I agree 135% !! that is a bad pic.
I completely agree… there is NO way that horse looks like THAT and places in any halter class. Especially in APHA.
Um, did someone just grab a hose and spray cold water under his tail? Because that is the only acceptable excuse for that pic! No amount of chiopractic care, saddle fitting, massage, accupuncture, or padding is going to make that poor horse comfortable. He looks sweet, but he should be ‘Exhibit A’ of why we should leave breeding to the experts.
http://www.dressagewannabes.blogspot.com
One of the big problems with that photo shopped picture is that it looks so FAKE! It is so obvious it is distracting. I would probably not even consider looking at a horse that has a sale picture like this because I know that I will not see the same horse in the picture. You can tell in the first picture that he is down hill, but holy shit, his front end may be a full hand shorter than that big hump in front of his ass! He is a pretty color, but that is about all he has going for him. This is the big problem with people breeding horses for a naturally unnatural low headset – most of them are that way because they are downhill to some extent, but this horse is just ridiculous. The whole points thing at all the color shows is really not that impressive. The big draw to COLOR horses is one of the many reasons I quit showing – I have had beautiful, nicely conformed, well balanced Sorrel horses lose to POSs like this. I would rather not bitch up my horses mane and just go for a trail ride than to have to conform to some of the current show standards (stupid F’d up gaits, mane pulled to within an inch of its existence, more glitter than liberace, polish, powder and baby oil on everything, should I go on?)
WOW!! I need to go back and check my conformation chapters. I would never of thought a severe roach back was a trait that would take a horse of ANY breed to a World Champ in Halter. Although I also was hoping maybe he had just pooped.
Fugs, I think you got Punked.. there is NO WAY that horse got 10 amature halter points in APHA with the side shot there… he has to have been peeing and just stood up funny or something. I’ve been and shown APHA breed shows..at halter… No Way. Seriously.
(show record for apha is broke out here: http://www.imaswitchhitter.com/docs/ishfoalpoints.pdf)
he obviously is NOT a roach back in this 3/4 shot:
http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/hitterfoals2006.asp
to get first, he’d have to be the only amature gelding in his class.. I think you need 3 head for a point, and no way would an APHA judge place that over anything.. so has to be a ‘bad kodak moment’. Maybe he is colicing. But that back can’t be his ‘normal’.
I don’t think there’s anything faked or false here…I don’t see any evidence of shopping that camera phone pic and the markings DO match…same horse.
You ran the show record for his daddy, not him.
No, that doc is progeny records.
grullotobi, if you look through the pictures many of the Switch foals are retardedly butt-high, with some funny backs as the result. The stud doesn’t look so bad himself; maybe they really do grow out of it?
I don’t know.. something is hinky about this.. it does not make sense that a horse suddenly becomes roach backed. I’ve seen 2 roach backs in person.. shocking and they didn’t look exactly like this horse.. the spine was up.. no fat over the top, even though the horses were in good weight. .. I’ve seen horses stand like that for a moment or two, but I’ve never seen a horse ‘develop’ a roach back like that.. he didn’t have it as a youngster.,.. and there is just no way that would ever place in a halter class.. apha or pinto. So there has to be more to this story.
Plus, I went digging up other ‘roach back’ images.. and they tally with what I remember.. and usually the roach back stops before the hips, and there is a ‘dip’ or ‘break’ between the roach part of the back and the hips.. this one is smooth and continuous.. making me think “colic” before I think he has a roached back. I look forward to more pics so we can put this one to bed.
uh… that show record is for all foals..of the sire to the horse… and the horse in question is listed about 1/3 of the way down.
http://www.bobthomasequestriancenter.com/pdffiles/equine-paintpintoresults.pdf– I stand corrected, the horse placed first in 16 head in tobiano color.. but still placed 3rd in a class of 12 the first day and second place the second day… gah.. I’ve never seen a roach back ‘develop’ over time.. is it possible he was ok at 2yrs old and then developed it at 4-5 and 6 yrs old??
There is no way.. I’m telling ya.. APHA is not that hard up for quality halter geldings.
found a side shot running:
http://kimbeileinperformancehorses.com/apha%20ptha%20show%20results.htm
Looking at picture of his sire he also has a downhill build.
“he obviously is NOT a roach back in this 3/4 shot:”
?? And you can tell this how? Heck, compare it to the photo-shopped performance pic, and you’ll see that the halter shot shows a much higher hq — probably the top of the hump.
The thing with Pinto is, the cost is HUGE.. so most people who own nice pintos.. don’t show them in pinto shows.
This is from the Wisconsin Pinto Show bills, and IL 2009 show bills…
you have to pay a PER judge fee…
WPtHA Entry Fee30 per judge per horse n rider all day or 7 per class per judge
office fee 6.5 per judge per horse
class fee 1 per class
open class fee 7 per class
stall fee 35 per show
grounds fee 15 for unstalled horses
For some shows there are 4 judges, others have 6 judges.
PtHA Pre-Entry Fee: $35.00 X 5 judges All Day Fee Horse and
Rider Combination or $7.00 per class X 5 judges.
Pre-entries must be postmarked 10 days before the show.
Post-Entry Fee: $45.00 X 6 judges All Day Fee Horse and Rider Combination or $9.00 per class X 6 judges
Open Class #31 is open to all breeds – $5.00 pay at gate-will
PtHA Office Fees: $5.00 X 6 judges per horse and $1.00 class fee for each class entered.
Weekend Stall Fee: 2 bags shavings included, $50.00 reserved/$60 day of show for Main Barn, $40 reserved/$50 day of show for Barn 2.
Stall Reservation Form must be postmarked 10 days before the show with payment to get reserved price. Grounds policy does NOT allow any outside shavings to be brought in.
Grounds Fee: $15.00 per horse for non-stalled horses on the show grounds
I agree, it is not cheap. We talked about using the PtHA shows as schooling shows for my horse, because you can register any AQHA horse in PtHA, and there are a ton of PtHA shows near his barn, and then I saw the prices. The prices make sense if you are running for Pinto awards, because you can earn all these awards in a short period of time with all the four-classes-in-one stuff. They don’t make any sense otherwise. We’ll go to regular old schooling shows for $7-$8 a class, thank you.
I have shown often at the Pinto World Show. Yes, it is a color registry, but many of the horses competing there are double and also showing on other circuits as well – Paint, Saddlebred, Half Arabian, Shetland, Hackney, miniature horse and so on. Let me tell you, the horses in my classes were tough and many of them were also shown at the Arabian Regionals and Nationals. The Paint folks tend to look down their noses at the Pinto World Show, but it sure doesn’t stop them from swooping in and carrying home all the stock horse awards, on their way to the Paint World Show. Pinto is a nice group and they work very hard to always be increasing the quality of their horses. ( They don’t allow undocumeted stallions to be registered.) I showed there in 2007, but never saw the “freaky looking” humped back horse shown in photo,since I show in the pleasure (Arabian type pintos) division and not the stock classes. But, I have seen alot of over-muscled, post-legged stock horses winning in halter, where they are judged and win like they are in QH shows. I even watched whileone stock type youngster had a HYPP attack in the line up (it laid out flat on it’s side ). At first everyone thought it died, then they thought it was heat stroke, and then it was discovered that it was HYPP. Also saw another have an attack in it’s stall in 2007. Naturally, a huge big monster muscled solid colored ( breeding stock ) mare in her stall. We were so dumb we all thought she was colicking, but her owner came and rushed her outback for treatment. I don’t want to knock PtHA, as I like them very much. Our local club is a wonderful group of people with outstanding horses who work very hard at what they do, youth education, etc. My experience with PtHA has always been outstanding, but there are always a few “nuts” who come in with those monsters and for some reason, usually sweep the prizes. Saw one one year that I thought was a cripple. I wouldn’t have even brought it to the show, and it won Champions of Champions of the show. I think some of the halter judges need to rethink what in the world they are placing! If there is one in the class and it is not worthy, don’t place it. Don’t make it WC because it’s the only one there. And certainly don’t place humpbacked freaks where there are normal ones to pick from.
Yeah, I don’t want to knock the circuit, either, that’s why I made the point that I’ve seen super, super nice horses showing on it. And the people are super nice, too, from what I’ve seen. It’s a great step-up circuit if all you’ve done is open shows and APHA seems intimidating. But the HYPP attack is another good example. Does PtHA have any HYPP rules?
And “how many were in the class” is another good question to ask. I was looking at ABRA World’s results last year, and there were 2 in performance halter. So #2 was reserve world champion? There’s an easy one for you!
Hey! *** marking ABRA world on her calendar…****performance halter*** class is ‘doable’…****
*LOL*
That was my first thought, ha ha! The VLC is not a classic AQHA halter horse, he doesn’t have that kind of build at all, but performance halter with 2 in there? Well hell, $100 well spent!
Let me know when you make it down to the ABRA world, and I’ll bring mine and we’ll have our ‘aged halter stallion’ class of 2 and dang.. got to get some performance points on him to qualify for performace halter.. *LOL*
I agree. I would like to know when my mare (who is actually useful and whose pasterns are actually at the angle they should be) will beat the poorly behaved idiotic halter mare in front of her even though she is actually, like, rideable. When a mare ALWAYS beats the other performance horses, but not the posty legged, monstrous, unrideable creatures they call the “standard”, there is a problem. Why bother having a standard you can’t even ride?????? If halter horses did not exist, my mare would win almost every time. It’s frustrating, because I work hard to get her into the condition where she can go in a halter class!!!!! By riding. What a concept.
http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/hitterfoals2006.asp
There is a pic of him in halter on that site, he just looks like he has a big hip, although it is still a professional pic and could have been ‘fixed’
http://kimbeileinperformancehorses.com/apha%20ptha%20show%20results.htm
this has another pic or him, again professional, but still doesnt look as bad as the candid. On the first site I posted you can also see his full sister, switchs black pearl. I cant find any other candid pics of him though
I don’t see another side confo pic of him anywhere.
In the running one, you can totally see that hip is for real. Look how low his tail comes out!
Did you see Whata Centerfielder on that foals page too? His topline looks pretty Frankensteinish too.
Hell check out Freckles By Switch on that page http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/hitterfoals2006.asp (third row down on teh right) – ‘Long as a wet Sunday’ as my Dad likes to say. Some horses in there are quite nice – and others are train wreak frankenhorses – make you wonder what they are using for brood mares…
The letter V came to mind when looking at the picture of Freckles By Switch!
I agree though, doubt the advertising photos are “photoshopped” so much as simply chosen for the angle, which hides most of the glaring conformation faults.
OT – i don’t really know much about shetland or mini registries, so I have a question. I saw an ad on CL for a shetland/mini so I looked given that I do love a cute little pony. The ad says he measures 39″ as a shetland and 37″ as a mini. Am I missing something? I thought all horses were measured the same way so how could this little guy have two different heights? Just wondering…
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/grd/1582760301.html
“Miniatures are not measured like ponies and large horses ie. at the withers. Instead they are measured at the last hairs of the mane.”
I remember someone complaining that their mare wasn’t eligible because her mane ended early, so she was measured farther up her withers than most minis.
It could have been my mare. She measures exactly at 34″ at the last hairs, and her mane ends pretty high up. If I measure her when she’s chilled, she grows! And DON’T make a mistake with the clippers…. they grown taller then!
We have a stallion that was shown Pinto before we got him and he did very well, even getting a Reserve Championship. (He looks MUCH better that that poor wretch!) We looked into showing Pinto, but DAMN! They are EXPENSIVE! We already show AMHA and AMHR and do well and wanted to try Pinto, but not until we hit the lottery…. we looked into their Worlds and a class was $85! Stalls alone were $200 a week or $65 a NIGHT. At Nationals for Minis stalls are $65 for ten days! Classes run about $35 for open classes, less for Amateur and even less for Youth in the AMHR. AMHA tends to run a bit higher, but definitely NOT as high as Pinto!
Minis are measured differently. Instead of at the withers, you measure the vertical distance from the base of the last hairs of the mane to the ground. Of course, with the horse standing square.
You can breed your own camel-horse: http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/photos.asp (even if you’re in Australia)
This is why so many people are against breed shows. The rider looks terrible in the shopped picture. The horse looks like he’s about to fall to his knees in the shopped picture….in fact, the whole shopped picture looks like a cartoon. I almost couldn’t tell it was the same horse.
Even if it is 3, it’s so hard to believe this horse is winning ANYTHING. His coat pattern is nice, but I’ve seen better/flashier. He’s downhill as can be, and even if/when he does have a growth spurt, I bet he still ends up down hill. And they’re loading an awful lot of weight on his growing bones. I know they like to see extra weight on halter horses, but let’s think about what we’re doing to his joints and feet here, hm?
ok, now I found where he was first in a class of 16 head.
http://www.bobthomasequestriancenter.com/pdffiles/equine-paintpintoresults.pdf
pinto or paint.. there is NO WAY that horse got first with a roach back. nada.
To be honest, the Pinto people don’t like them as ‘pretty’ as APHA people, and take a straiter, thicker leg over a pretty head usually.. they’d be agast to see a roach back in a halter class.
No way. have to do a correction, he was first out of 16 in the tobiano color class, but still a 3rd and a 2nd in the youth halter geldings.. class of 12…no way. no apha judge would do that.. and the uproar that would follow if they DID do that would get their card yanked.
he must have stretched out to pee, and then was being squared back up in the pic.
For all of you who are saying he’s mostly been shown PtHA, I downloaded his APHA record:
1 point Open Halter, 14 points Color, 10 points Amateur Halter, 5 points Youth Halter, 3 points Hunter Under Saddle, 2 points Western Pleasure – 35 points overall with a ROM in Amateur Halter & Color.
That’s 16 HALTER POINTS overall! Give me a BREAK!
Although that’s definitely not as bad as the 152 in PtHA, with a ROM as well as the Reserve Champion in Halter. Do they give points for attendance now?
I have never been to a show where THAT would place, even open shows. That is a joke. There’s no way in hell. I’ve mostly been to stock shows and I’ve NEVER seen anything like that even bother to show up. Notice most of the point are in a color class, which is a dumb idea anyway.
GAH. That first photo, he looks like he lost a contact and is trying to find it in the horribly mis-cloned grass. I mean, they even left off part of his hoof in this Photoshop Disaster. The angle of the sunlight isn’t even right. The rider has that hands-too-far-apart-and-low and hunchy-over look so popular in stock breed HUS.
As for the 2nd photo, I HATE the low tail set they breed for these days. He looks like a H/H horse with his ass melting like Raiders of the Lost Ark and his (probably blocked) tail sliding off.
Even in the photo of him running in the pasture you can tell that if he stood still his butt would be too high.
I so much hate what stock breeds have done to themselves. Color or no color.
The floating on a magic carpet of Astroturf in the middle of a mythical pasture photo …. WTF.
>>The rider has that hands-too-far-apart-and-low and hunchy-over look so popular in stock breed HUS.<<
ROFL! What IS up with that?! I see that all the time now and it bothers me, although I see top trainers doing it at AQHA World so I didn't question it. It's been 15 years since I even rode English but I didn't think sitting up straight with quiet hands would ever go out of style. Glad to see it bothers someone else, too.
Obviously I'm in no position to criticize, so maybe if I knew the reason behind it, it wouldn't look so odd to me. Anyone?
Suggestion for his barn name: Quasimodo
Holy shit. “What are they supposed to think when they see mutant horse there in the second pic?” That he has pretty swirly white things on the left side of his neck, duh!
You know its bad when you show that picture to your non-horse friends and all they can say is oh my goodness that poor horse… I do hope he evens out, being downhill at all can cause major tension problems and make it hard for the horses to truly relax without falling on their face!
I saw the first pic and thought “what a strange photo to choose. That rider looks like she’s about to fall over his neck.” Well, at least now I know why…
I think I actually gasped when I saw that odd looking animal in the second picture. We all have (or have had) horses with “qualities” only a mother could love, but then, I’m not showing it off to the world. Too bad he’s spotted. If he was a solid color, he’d just be a backyard pet or trail horse. I’m sure he has a lovley demeanor and manners, but thank God he’s a gelding!
I would be interested to see a current SIDE SHOT of the horse. My understanding from the person who sent this to me is that the breeder is on some MB claiming he just has a “long croup.”
Um I doubt too many men are paying attention to Pamela Anderson’s FACE. LMAO. As to the horse, it’s a gelding thankgod. (if I was the owner I’d burned the photo) And at least it appears it is taken care of.
i found more pictures on this website, 2nd and 7th photos down, and he doesn’t appear to have a “hump”, so something must have happened like he spooked, got slapped, or coughed. I highly doubt you could safely and successsfully ride a horse with a back like that.
http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/World%20Photos.asp
and heres another picture
http://kimbeileinperformancehorses.com/images/kim%20web%20images/apha%20client%20photos/trex.gif
Yes, he DOES show the hump in those halter photos. Look closely at the top of his croup — now look at all the other halter photos on that page, taken from the same angle. Notice that you can see the line of the spine in every picture — muscle, dip to the tail, muscle, sort of like the top of a heart-shape. Notice, also, that the horse in question DOES NOT HAVE A VISIBLE DIP. Look at 1,000 halter photos taken from that angle — you’ll always see that double-bump. Unless of course, you’re looking at a malformed spine. Use your eyes. Yikes.
Part of the problem here is they combined their “halter” and “color” points to make it look like his confirmation is good, too. Obviously not. It’s like one lady I know who said she got top 5 at Pinto World. Well, she was 5th out of 5. Yes, she did get top 5, but she was also dead last. She chose to not mention the latter. Half-truths sound better…at least until someone bothers to fact-check.
I’m always shocked (although I don’t know why) at how many people will breed to a stallion based on a shiny ad in one of the magazines and they’ve never even seen the horse in person, just because they want someone “famous.” The ads hardly ever show their feet. I’ve seen several stallions in person who I couldn’t believe I was even looking at the same horse that was in the ad. Then again, I’ve seen some that were even better in person (one of them a is a well-known halter stud that I thought looked much better put-together in person). You never know–but how do you know if you don’t go look, or even just ask for a video? I’m always highly suspicious of those who refuse to do videos. They claim you don’t need video of a halter horse. If they refuse to show you their horse then what are they trying to hide?
My stud was photographed in winter (I got to take advantage of a free session
, so yes, his coat was slicked up a bit in his head shot, but there is nothing confirmationally changed. I include plenty of amateur, unaltered shots (including his injured leg) as well as a video of him and his get on my website. I think it’s ok to remove a fenceline, or fix that stray forelock hair, or even remove a horse in the background that might distract from a really great shot, but when horse owners change everything about the horse it’s bad. Even worse is when people take these photos to be gospel when choosing a stallion to breed to (or when purchasing a horse) without seeing what’s behind the glam.
Being fake goes even one step further than photoshop, though. Fake testicles, deadened and weighted tails, checked ligaments, done necks, hormone shots, etc….nothing is real about show horses anymore, even IN person.
Oh crap, I mean “conformation.” It’s been a long day LOL!
Well, personally I am a fan of the weighted tails as they offer a HUMANE alternative to tail blocking. So no gripes about those. They are just for show, like mane bands – in no way do they harm the horse or disguise a material flaw in the horse.
However, you make a great point with the rest of your post. In particular, HEIGHT is lied about a lot! My horse actually sticks 16.2 with a stick with a level. I have been in many a stall with a horse advertised at 16 or taller who wasn’t anywhere close. Even Hercules was advertised at 17.2 and is only 17.0.
“Well, personally I am a fan of the weighted tails as they offer a HUMANE alternative to tail blocking. So no gripes about those. They are just for show, like mane bands – in no way do they harm the horse or disguise a material flaw in the horse.”
??? You surprize me. A horse switches his tail because he’s being spurred, his back hurts, he’s stressed beyond belief by poor training, or because he or she doesn’t have the greatest mind and is a irritable character, with or without cause. It’s a sign that *something is wrong*, and preventing it is cheating. Plain and simple. Cheating.
Again, WHERE do they get the hair for fake tails? *ahem* That ALONE should make you not like them, Cathy!
Actually, as pretty as braided horsehair on tack & accessories can be, it JUST NOW occurred to me that it’s probably yet another way to support the slaughter industry. Damn.
What’s funny is that AQHA people used to make fun of Arab people for being too glitzy & Vegas. I’m cool with fancy tack, fancy show jackets, etc., and I’m all for good grooming, but the fake tail thing just goes way too far. Grooming & fitting should be done to enhance a horse’s NATURAL appearance.
The other funny thing is that it used to be considered ultra tacky for your horse’s tail to be “banged” straight across. I remember a rulebook somewhere saying that you were to be penalized for it in showmanship. Instead, you were to pull your horse’s mane & tail to the appropriate length (just below the hocks for stock horses). Tails hanging dead or almost dead – that takes “quiet” to an artificial extreme I’m not willing to accept.
I understand the heartbreak of chewed-off hair, though – my current boy has a nice gnawed place right in the middle of his neck. I’m hoping it will grow enough that when I trim his mane this spring, it won’t look too bad.
I’m ok with fake tails for the same reason I’m ok with the leather boots that are on my feet…it was already dead and wasn’t killed PRIMARILY for that purpose. The back of my driver’s license is signed, too, and you can do whatever you want with my organs after I die. Same thing as far as I’m concerned. No one is slaughtering horses to get their tails.
Umm… a lot of fake tails have been cut off of live horses with nice tails and plenty to spare….I know of at least a few…and I have never heard of inhumane methods being used to make fake tails…what are you insinuating exactly?
A bit more info from the person who submitted this – if you were at the show too, maybe you have an opinion to share?
“The candid was taken at the Jan. 30 & 31 APHA/PtHA show at the Florida State fairgrounds… so it IS a recent picture. The person who snapped the pic said she was appalled by him. He won second, placing over one of his sisters and she snapped that picture. Said he looked like that the whole time and the woman showing was super proud of him.”
So there you go. If you’re on the Florida PtHA circuit, watch for him and see if he really does look like this IRL!
Oh man… You can find pics of this guy all over the web, and he looks hideous in all of them.
WHAT IS IS with people breeding horses with hindquarters massively TALLER than their WITHERS? It’ just awful. And some of them look like horsehoes…. They’re a nice u-shape… Yuck.
Switchs Big Leaguer just makes me sick. His conformation is appalling.
Here are some more pics of him, you can see the roach here too.
http://kimbeileinperformancehorses.com/images/kim%20web%20images/apha%20client%20photos/trex.gif
And guess what… all of his sire’s foals look exactly like him… They all have ridiculously crappy conformation.
Sorry fugs… but to me, fake tails are an abomination.
What the hell is wrong with a natural tail?
If he’s switching or wringing it in anger, there’s a reason.
If he’s merely swishing it in time with his gait or because he just has a naturally expressive tail, that’s a personal trademark.
If the judge doesn’t know the difference, then why the hell is he a judge??
Plus, where do you think they get the hair for the fake tails???? Hecho en Mexico, mi amiga.
The weight merely encourages it to hang better – it’s like straightening your own hair so it’s not flying all over the place. How much weight do you think it is? It ranges from a half pound to 1.5 pounds. I doubt that will keep a genuinely pissed off horse from switching his tail. My horse carries his tail nicely but it’s not full enough because his brother ATE it when he was a yearling and they were stalled together. He’s getting a tail to wear and it’s going to have a little weight in it to make sure it flows attractively. I do not have a single problem with that. It is an aesthetic thing to create a prettier image in the ring, like a $4000 saddle or a banded mane or clipping the ears.
A pissed off horse is going to be obvious – fake tail or no. What are you gonna do, glue the ears forward too?
“It is an aesthetic thing to create a prettier image in the ring, like a $4000 saddle or a banded mane or clipping the ears. ”
BIG difference between a glitzy saddle or a trim and something that changes the horse’s performance. Why do you think weights/blocking/etc are don’t in the first place? And the weight you suggest is a great deal hung on the end of the dock. Consider the difference an ounce can make in a shoe!
I wish the stock people would either learn how to put on a tail or stop using them. Here’s a hint: if you can tell it’s fake, it’s not properly applied.
I have never in my life seen a fake tail change a horse’s performance!! My mare can swish her tail just fine with a fake tail in. Where are you getting your facts from?
Exactly. There is no way a fake tail, with or without a whole whopping pound of weight in, prevents a tail from swishing. It merely looks good.
People steal it too…someone came into a barn not far from here one night and chopped the tails on the Saddlebreds off at the bottom of the dock. Poor horses had nothing but fuzzy tailbones left!
That’s absolutely sick!! I admit, I have heard of that happening. That’s disgusting. The horse has nothing left to swat at flies with!!!!
I am not going to enter the debate raging here, but I have funny fake tail story to tell.
We were at a local open show on a very wet day. It had rained the day before, and there were puddles in the arena in a couple of spots. During one class a poorly attached fake tail became too heavy to hang on, due to the addition of mud at the bottom of the tail. It happened to fall off the horse very close to the edge of one of the puddles during a canter. A few horses went by it without problem before the ring steward could pick it up. The next horse, however saw the tail and came to an instant halt, dumping the rider directly in the puddle. I could just hear what the horse was thinking, “NO WAY!! Not going through THAT puddle! It just SWALLOWED A HORSE!”
The rider and horse were uninjured, but when the ring steward picked up the tail and carried it out, the horse’s eyes were HUGE!
My newly-horsey husband and I headed to a local open/fun show last weekend. There were Arabians, Half-Arabians, Quarter Horses, Warmbloods, Thoroughbreds, Welsh and Shetlands all being shown in the same classes. We devised the following way to help him determine which ones were which breed:
1) Short, fat, very furry and ornery: Shetland
2) Medium-Short, fat, cute and happy: Welch
3) Medium, concave face, long mane, tail dragging the ground, white’s of the eyes visible, crooked legs: Arabian
4) Medium to tall, concave face, long mane and tail, somewhat crooked legs: Half-Arabian
5) Medium to tall, square face, hair extensions in tail, depressed looking: AQHA or APHA/Pinto if spotted
6) Tall, normal face, braided mane and/or tail, triainer delivers groomed horse to coiffed riders waiting in the Mercedes that are running with the heater on (it was 35F degrees): TB or Warmblood
Just for clarification: white around the eyes is a HUGE conformational fault for an Arabian, not a breed characteristic. Of course, “crooked legs” are not a breed characteristic either. Perhaps that is why they are at your local fun show, and not at an Arab show, but it isn’t fair at all to say that is a way to define which horses are the Arabs.
Aww that’s not fair!! A quarter horse should have a relaxed look on their face, certainly, but not a depressed one. They’re not supposed to have the excited expression of a TB or a SB, that’s just not how they’re made!! I think it’s time people understand what the purpose of a stock horse is…because obviously they are not aware. When did this blog become a stock horse bashing blog??
[FHOTD in: It's not. There are just a lot of people here in other disciplines who haven't SEEN a pleasure horse trained humanely. I have. I do understand how they feel based upon seeing bad things - I've also seen VERY bad things - but overall you should never feel that this blog will be anti-QH because, after all, that's what I have!]
I am pretty sure that in COLOR classes the horse is judged based on placing and symmetry of markings – at least, that’s what they have been whenever I have shown my horse in a color class at a show. This horse DOES have nice markings and if they are even on both sides then that’s why he is a world champion and has so many points in that particular class.
The people saying there is NO WAY he can look like that, ad nauseum, and then post the winning halter and running picture to “prove” it – just cracks me up. That running picture absolutely PROVES his back is f’ed up! Look at his tail position! Focus on the position of his hind legs – he’s cow hocked trying to compensate for his back. He has no “jump” in his stride, look how low to the ground his front feet are! And I KNOW he’s a stock horse, but even so. It’s so obvious in that picture that he is compensating for a sore/weak back. The picture of him winning at halter was a younger picture of him, and it really doesn’t look like he has the hump then – but it also does not look normal either. I do wonder if this was something that happened over time and he was not born this way – an injury maybe? Very interesting. What could cause that to happen?
I’d say it’s genetic. If you scroll all the way down on this page: http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/hitterfoals2006.asp there’s a picture of Whata Centerfielder, same sire, same butt on him.
Or here: http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/diamond.asp His full sister… also very downhill.
No, Centerfielder is a butt high yearling and Diamond is butt high as well. Butt high is NOT what this horse is (well, not primarily). He is roach backed.
I’ll agree– I think he definitely looks like that. I just don’t get how he ever placed in AQHA halter!!!
Dang it – I forgot to add, to the person saying that a roach back is just like a sway back and causes no health problems – you are sadly mistaken. Both conditions are deformations of the spine. They can cause lameness issues from trying to overcompensate for not being able to move normally, neurological issues due to the spinal cord being damaged by the spine, pinched nerves, breeding issues, etc., etc. There is a reason why both roach and sway backs are serious conformational faults. FWIW.
Except most of the sway backed horses I’ve seen weren’t born that way. A sway back is *most often* a result of the combination of a long back and age. Or a lot of pregnancies.
Which is one of the reasons why I prefer a shorter back. One of the horses I know with a sway back really had a bad back to start with…INSANELY long. She’s 20 and now needs regular chiropractic care to stay sound…she rides fine, you just have to keep an eye on her and make sure she’s not showing any signs of needing an adjustment.
Roach back, though…that’s congenital.
Can anyone explain to me what causes roach back? Beyond it being a conformation fault? Is it a skelatal issue or muscular? Or Ligamants?
This is a video I captured of me photoshopping the conformation on one of our mares. She has a long back and the angle she is on and ground slope accentuates her bad points… This vid was purely for entertainment purposes, I work as a designer so I spend a looot of time in photoshop
enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAGHWnUizI
OMG!!! I had no idea that much manipulation was even POSSIBLE!
I’ve cloned out a few piles of manure and various fenceposts in my day, but that’s waaaaaaaay over MY head!!!!
That is so cool. I just got Photoshop myself and am in awe. I promise to use my powers only for good!
Very impressive! and very sad! Thanks for the post, that is good to see so you know it can be done!
Hoping this link works…has a photo of Sterling Rachwal…..
Im not a color person at all but….I do know that occasionally you can get lucky at locallly hosted AQHA shows be it because of weather or the ring or the place the show is being held, but there is always a chance that you show up and theres only a handful of others. AND when its your Some what well built horse vs. a bunch of train wrecks that entered the class just hoping to catch a point then you win.
In the case of this poor guy, well, I think he is young, still very down hill and genetically predisposed to staying that way, and was caught in a very akward moment on camera. He could have been standing for HOURS waiting for his class or in his class and before that he may have been tied up in his stall. This may have been a moment of stretching, or a finish to a tinkle, or a handlers bad attempt at setting him up. I would love to see the few minutes before this pic and a side profile picture of him now.
Im not trying to defend him but I just need more info
Believe me, there are worse examples of hunt seat equitation on that site. Hay-zeus.
I was at this show and saw this gelding, I follow this stallions babies, and I saw him as a yearling at the APHA show a couple of years ago, didn’t go last year, he didn’t look nothing like he does now, the pic is no joke he looks that bad. I don’t understand why APHA would place him at all. I love the stallion he is out of, and I feel sorry for this guy, he has a major slope to his butt, the dock of the tail is half way down his rump. I don’t understand what happened to him, just feel bad for him.
He doesn’t know he’s ugly and he’s obviously well cared for
Poor thing.
Having done some photography at a horse show for fun and watching the pro for a couple years prior, I see one observation that no one else seems to recognize.
If you look at the handlers stance in that photo you will notice that the handler appears to be getting the horse set up/squared up better. That is what I am seeing after watching hundreds of exhibiters showing their horses.
So this was snapped real quick before the horse was fully set up to present to the judges.
As to the first ad image, do you honestly think any of these are not shopped to make the horse look better? Being a graphic design artist I have seen good pics and bad pics and some so good you could not tell they added muscle or took muscle or fixed a crooked leg or what not.
That is just the nature of the media. As to breed shows, it is the politics of the judges, catch leaders who imo cheat one hell of a horse out of a CH title because who is at the end of the lead. Not ammy photographers taking impromptoo pics and blasting them all over the web.
That is just my 2 cents
Honestly I don’t get what the big deal is. He’s a gelding . . . they aren’t breeding this into anything more than what you see here. Maybe the owners thought he would grow out of the “ugly duck” phase too and it just never happened. Looks like he’s well taken care of . . . not sure why this is on a site I’ve come to see as a compassionate and passionate place to uphold standards of how we treat our horses . . . good, bad and ugly, and this horse seems to be taken care of. This is something I dislike about the equine world, the snobbery. Sorry, maybe I missed something.
It’s not snobbery. Here is what it’s about:
When THAT wins at halter, it gives people the wrong idea that the horse is conformationally correct and that can mislead people who, for example, are thinking about breeding horses. It may encourage them to breed to his sire, who quite honestly has produced quite a bit of funky looking stuff although this one really stands out.
Sure, he’s a gelding. Hooray. But for him to win at halter is like my winning America’s Next Top Model.
I get it. I’ve been to enough shows, with my horses in the past, and without. I’ve seen bad judging . . . but that is what it boils down to in my mind . . . the breed standards are judged there, that is their job. If they weren’t passing this crap, we wouldn’t have him in the winnings . . . much less at a world show as a representation of his breed(s).
Maybe that is all you’re getting at. :0)
I think I might be snobby. :0) hehehe.
ps, thank you for this site . . . I’m in Salem, Oregon and wish I could do more for the seizure north of Albany, Or. that you blogged about! Eye opening stuff.
I get it. I’ve been to enough shows, with my horses in the past, and without. I’ve seen bad judging . . . but that is what it boils down to in my mind . . . the breed standards are judged there, that is their job. If they weren’t passing this crap, we wouldn’t have him in the winnings . . . much less at a world show as a representation of his breed(s).
Maybe that is all you’re getting at. :0)
I think I might be snobby. :0) hehehe.
ps, thank you for this site . . . I’m in Salem, Oregon and wish I could do more for the seizure north of Albany, Or. that you blogged about! Eye opening stuff.
Alright guys – As the person who actually snapped that photo, I can tell you that horse looks just like that in real life. Believe it, don’t believe it – whatever makes you sleep better at night. But this horse has the most prominant roach back I have EVER seen. Now, to make this clear : First of all, I like his sire AND his FULL sister. Second, I don’t have a problem with samiray persay. I have a problem with APHA judges rewarding such an atrocity. Guys, what you see in that picture is what you get. It was hard for me to keep my eyes off of him. I was there just as a spectator to introduce my son to the ‘BIG’ shows before he enters them himself. This horse just caught my eye and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I understand that she wants to show him, but show him at a fun show – on the local level. I wouldn’t think she’d want a baby off her stud that looked like that to be out at the big shows using Switch’s name. I also have a quick VERY SHORT video of him in that class. It was taken by accident when I was trying to snap a picture and I had it on video setting. I will attempt to upload it, but my computer is a dinosaur and may be slow to upload.
Also, it’s not just the back. Nasty upright pasterns, major post legs.
This is an example of a halter horse with a genuinely big hip – not a roach back.
fhotd says:
Also, it’s not just the back. Nasty upright pasterns, major post legs.
—
THAT’S what I’ve been trying to figure out, whether it’s some kind of halter horse affectation to make a horse perch on his tip toes, thus artificially straightening his pasterns and rear legs, lowering the tail set, and accentuating the “hip-high” look. It doesn’t look functional to me, but then I’ve long given up understanding the point of halter (as opposed to conformation included as part of the judging in a performance class).
ergh. I can’t say that Awesome Andy is all that awesome, either. No roach back, but he’s also got post legs and straight pasterns. At least to my eye, for what that’s worth.
But JEEBUZ CHEEE-RIST, why oh WHY must QH folk breed for croup-high, oversized asses??? Maybe if ‘big-lick’ Tennessee Walkers were bred to the big-butt halter QHs you’d get one superhorse and one puny li’l nag thingy. Also, note the fuzzed-out feeties in this pic. Andy”s probably got 00 size hooves all around to ‘support’ the big butt and the calf knees in the front…
Hate to say it but even that photo looks shopped (from the pasterns down). Outside of the rump looking lower, I don’t see much difference in the shoulder angle, legs or pastern. It all looks to painful (on the back) to ride.
The (up/down) pounding the cartridge is subjected to in those joints must be incredible. Toss all that weight on upright pasterns with little flexibility and your looking at a early retirement. Why do people breed such short upright joints? It’s like riding a jack-hammer, it can’t be good for any of the (other) joints that absorb impact.
But see, they thought of that. That’s why they train all of the suspension out of them for Pleasure classes, so there’s no concussion on the joints!
ugh, Awesome Andy looks awful too. That is not good conformation. He looks like half of a regular horse (front end) and half of a much large horse (back end) stapled together. Why are halter horses, especially AQHA so obese? What is the point of a big fat halter horse. They can’t be fun to ride, or athletic or good at an actual job. Yes, I think its good to judge breeds against their written conformation description and ground manners and turnout, but I’d also like to be able to fit my legs over his back and actually go over a fence, down a trail or around the ring one time without the horse getting winded.
Don’t you know that halter horses aren’t supposed to be ridden because…um…………………..*crickets*………. reasons I can’t understand….
I would absolutely love to see the video if you are able to post it. That is the freakiest looking horse I’ve ever seen! I can’t even imagine not being completely MORTIFIED to be seen in public with him!!!
Oh, WOW! Well now that I can actually see the picture better and have a full on explanation. He looks uncomfortable, and I cant imagine seeing him and thinking I would love to jump on and ride him….Let alone SHOW!! In any capacity. The only Show I, as a judge, would allow this to show up in is 4-H or a fun show. I give them kudos for his care thus far but lets see where he ends up when she cant/wont show him anymore.
That was my thought . . . after seeing the larger photo, he really does look uncomfortable. Though that is off ONE photo, but still . . . the photographer of the photo already pointed out he looked like this the whole time. Yikes . . . that would be my concern . . . if and when he is good for nothing (lame), then what happens to him?
Ah, thank you. I was going to post something similar after playing around with the brightness in Photoshop last night. This is one of the most strangely shaped horses I’ve ever seen.
I’m glad to see that he is gelded, goes under saddle and has owners who care about him. He’s not likely to end up at an auction. He’ll have a good life, if those pasterns don’t cripple him at age 6. I’m also glad to hear that he may be winning in classes that judge color only and NOT conformation. If he’s winning in conformation classes, the judges need new glasses and a kick in the head.
Right. Does that sum things up?
Ok, just for the record:
This horse has been shown in A LOT of APHA color classes. I can’t view anything on the Pinto side, but as far as APHA goes, he got the majority of his halter points in COLOR classes. In the APHA color class, conformation DOES NOT COUNT. It is judged totally on color and nothing else. He did place in several halter classes, but the majority of his points do not come from conformation judged halter classes. There aren’t any points listed for this year, only 2009 and prior, and the most recent shows from last year (October) are for color class only. His most recent true halter points are from February of last year.
There is also a photo of this gelding as a foal on his APHA page and he does NOT have a topline like the photo above shows. He obviously has a very short back. That can be seen by some of the other photos posted here of this horse. Either the picture here was taken at an odd time for the horse, or he has developed some severe back problems since winning in APHA halter classes.
I’ll be anxious to see the video highorse speaks of. Are you sure this wasn’t a color class?
If the horse truly does look like that now, and he is still placing in TRUE halter classes, I’ll send a complaint to APHA about all the judges listed on his performance record that placed him in halter class.
What is English Pleasure? Does it have anything to do with the fact that you probably couldn’t fit a western saddle to that back?
In the photoshopped pic, it looks like riding him with his head in ‘pleasure position’ is a safety issue.
This is why I can’t get my head around Stock Horse English/Hunter classes:
http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/images/ttscongress06.gif
That’s a Congress Champion. Seriously, how did that horse win such a high ranking show looking like that? To me, that looks like Western Pleasure in an English saddle. There’s no contact with the mouth, no collection, the horse’s hind end isn’t engaged…And what is with the rider’s foot looking like it belongs in a ballet slipper? Heels *down*, not up!
This is more what I find appealing, from my years in the Hunter ring. Granted, there are a few things I would do differently, but the horse’s entire body is engaged, the rider has contact with the mouth, and the rider’s ear, shoulder, elbow, hip, and ankle are (mostly) appropriately aligned:
http://www.equineformsinc.com/images/02chestmare.gif
If somebody here more familiar with the Paint and QH circuits could explain to me how that is supposed to be the proper way to ride a stock horse English, I would be appreciative. I just boggle whenever I see a Stock Horse Hunter class at an open show and the horses ride like that Paint.
Why is that rider showing if they can’t even grasp the most basic skill of “heels down”?
Actually, that pic looks like the horse got annoyed, tried to snatch the reins and nearly pulled his rider over the head. I HOPE she doesn’t ride like that all the time…
I would love for that horse to give just the TEENIEST little buck! Plop goes the rider!
I feel for that poor horse. I really do. He looks to be overweight too, but it may be the hump throwing me off. It doesn’t help that he’s got his hind legs standing right under him, although he probably stands so thanks to the hump!
He looks like the mare I used to own when I’d hose under her tail during bathes — she’d tuck up her bum and look about like that in a lesser degree.
Honestly, I am not sure that I see the roach back. What I am seeing is a huge hip on a horse with a really, really short back. He seems to have the right curvature, he just needs say a couple extra inches added onto his spine? His body just in general doesn’t seem long enough – if you look at his barrel he just doesn’t seem long enough down there either. Over all yes, his confirmation is wacky.
OK Fugs, Cathy or whatever your name is…
1) you must have no idea of of what the judgeing process is… A judge must judge what is put in front of them And lacking any infractions of the rules the exhibitors cannot be DQed.. So yes, even after all of the deductions for faullts, depending on what the others looked looked like in the class… that horse still could be the hiughest placed horse in the class.
2) I quadriple dog-dare you to do this….. Enter the VLC in the Amateur Halter Class at the NW Emerald AQHA show Sept 9, 10,11,12 2010 at the Monroe Fairgrounds If you don’t quailfy for Amateur, thgen he go in the Open
No happycrappy of saying that you don’t like halter classes, no complaining about “politics”… no nothing… YOU get out there and if YOU think that the VLC is so great then YOU show him.
OH and by the way… also you have to accept your placings graciously no screaming politc or scream on how thew judges don’t know what they are doing…. NO EXCUSES
AND if you cannot get the time off from work to show Then have someone show him in the Open class for you
Tha show is 7 months away Plenly of time to get him ready
And as you can tell by my handle I don’t show Halter… I have no ax to gring in that class… I threw that out there so you did not have to ride…. And no I don’t show AQHA, PtHA or APHA either
Why would I enter a horse who isn’t halter type in a halter class? That would be a silly waste of money. That show is currently in our plans but he’ll be under saddle only.
I understand the judging process but that doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion that it’s wrong if a horse with a humpback beats horses who do not possess a humpback. He didn’t place second out of two at this show, per the eyewitness who took the pictures.
When have I ever complained about politics? I’ve actually written on the topic that if a lot of judges dislike your horse, it’s not politics, it’s that your horse isn’t very good. I believe that. If a lot of judges don’t like my horse, he’ll be gelded and I’ll stop spending so much money on him and buy cute shoes again. I kind of win either way, which is probably why I’m not too emotionally invested in one outcome or the other.
Now, aren’t you late for your anger management class?
How many horses were in the class? I ask because I didn’t see anything in the photographer’s post that made reference to the number of horses entered. “BIG” I took to mean a way to distinguish the show from a local level show.
Because like I said earlier there may not be many people entered and if you are chasing an ROM or points…..You hope that one judge will place you high enough to get a a point here or there…and you never know some judges just lose thier minds and well…. LOL!!! Besides Kathy you would LOVE halter I think you need to start doing it all the time
Oh I am not angry One cannot “hear’ the voiceand/or tone of typed words…yhou should know that LOL I just think it is odd that people all get hackles raised over this ….. It is not like the owner/handler had any decision in the placings They paid their entry fee and the cards fell where they did….
OK The I quadriple dog dare you to to put him in an under saddle class at the NW Emerald this year
>>> If alot of judges don’t like my horse, he will be gelded>>>
Why on earth would you let a group of people’s opinion make you decide to geld him or not?
You don’t have to dare me. The horse will be showing this season. That particular show is currently on the schedule; however, obviously anything can happen. But it is among the list of shows I provided to my trainer as ones I’d really like for him to go to.
As for why I’d let someone else decide if he stays a stallion, it’s simple. No show success = foals won’t be worth anything. If I were letting him sire foals that weren’t worth anything, that would be completely antithetical to everything I say here on the blog.
I will come watch him
Do they have a gaited class? If they do I might see if I cant take the Fox Trotter gelding I am working with right now. He’s super cute! Pain in my ass (most literally), but cute nontheless 
I’ll put him in my avatar
UGHhh, Look at this foal!
http://www.paintedfeatherfarms.com/images/whatacenterfielder.gif
I have never in my life seen such a butt-high horse.
Not sure why you all are so blind. If you can not see that horse is hunched up a split second before taking a step back to setup properly then you all need to get the hell out of the show ring and out of the grandstands. That is the problem with a site like this, you see only what you want to see and not the whole picture. I am thinking the way the person who claims to have taken the picture in the first place has slammed the horse left and right got this picture just to show the horse in a bad light. Do you have a grudge against the owner? I would love to see a video of that horse in that class and not one that has been edited to show just the bad parts of the showing but the full set up profile as the horse should be set up. Bet you dont have that part do you!
Read all the comments. There are multiple people who’ve seen the horse in person who say this was not a bad moment caught by the camera — that he really looks like this, all the time, in any pose.
These are the only conformation photos I could find of this horse, all from when he was a weanling to yearling.
Now, he doesn’t look too bad as a youngster. Heck he’s kinda pretty in that Congress photo, though I’m not a fan of this type of Paint and even for the ‘body style’, he looks a bit more downhill than is desirable. What is interesting though, is since winning all of these championships and Congress, there aren’t any conformational shots online. Just the one this particular photographer in the stands took at a show that’s currently making a hit on fhotd. I’d like to see the video the photographer says she has of him, so it can be determined if the photo makes what might be a minor conformational issue look more major than it is, or if this horse really does have such significant back issues.
What makes me lean towards believing the photographer and folks who say they’ve seen him, is his tail set. Notice how he grows, his tail set drops lower and lower and the rump angle is more severely sloped. It makes me think something funky is going on, and it would be worth investigating further.
Of course, I don’t have much to do with Paints, so perhaps what I have noticed is normal in the eyes of Paint owners, breeders, and exhibitors.
That’s not the horse everyone is talking about.
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‘Switchs Big Leaguer’ is a chestnut pinto, the one you posted is a bay pinto. Note the black in his tail and black forelock.
Other differences include the head shape being wrong, the facial markings being quite different, etc.
This is from the side.
Oops, my apologies for the mistake!
Wrong horse. Try posting the correct horse next time…
Okay I just went on a search looking for pictures of horses backing up, I couldn’t really find any but I did watch three different videos of horses backing up. I now feel comfortable saying that even if this horse were caught right as he was getting ready to back up that would not account for that back. It just wouldn’t. It might exaggerate it a little but normal horses just don’t really look like that even when they are backing up. (Maybe if they were backing up, peeing and someone was hosing their butt with ice water all at the same time, but otherwise I just don’t think so.) Also, this horse’s feet are already pretty square so I’m not even convinced he is backing up. I’m glad this horse has an owner who is obviously taking good care of him and I’m super glad that horses aren’t like people and can’t get their feelings hurt by mean comments (otherwise this poor guy would need some serious therapy), but it is hard to understand and even believe that this horse placed in any kind of conformation class. Just my opinion.
Here a picture of my horse backing up…
His back isn’t even remotely arched.
Here are a few pictures of my horses arching their backs for various reasons…
When horses arch their backs, it’s blantantly obvious by the position of the rest of their body and by the visible vertebrae. It’s just not possible for a horse to arch their back THAT dramatically while standing calmly and square.
That’s a roach back if I ever saw one.
I thought he looked bad in the picture where he is moving, and I don’t know *or* give a rat’s ass whose horse he is…that rider looks like she is riding down a cliff. I don’t think it’s her own fault that she looks like she’s about to go forward onto her hands, either. I wouldn’t take him if they gave him to me.
No one is blind. No he was hunched up to pee, OR being set to stand square. Nope, I am not a photographer. However, my 9 year old could’ve gotten ust the same picture of him. You ask me if I have a problem with the owner. Well, apparently YOU’RE blind because you haven’t read (or comprehended) anything I’ve written.
As I said before, believe what you want to believe. I don’t give really give a s***. But why don’t you just stick to photography, k?
The un-shopped pic of the horse reminds me of a line from “The Princess Bride”
–”Dear God! What is that thing,”
But really… do we have more pics of this horse looking like this, or is this the only one? He could be about to poop or something. I have a hard time believing a horse like that could win anything, let alone move properly to get to the arena, even in the color world. I would leave judgments until there was more proof than one picture.
I have no ax to gring either.
Poor freakish horse. Is a roach back painful? He certainly doesn’t look comfortable. At least they gelded him.
WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH HALTER JUDGES IF FRANKENHORSE IS WINNING????!!!!
You know, I used to want a pinto as a kid…now they’re as common as cattle and I can’t stand the sight of them. The pintos, not the cattle! Most cows I see look more pleasant to ride than this whatsit. I have become very discouraged with my breed registry too, for allowing high-white horses in…they used to be banned, as they were in many of the native British breeds, and now they’ve allowed them into the studbook because of people wanting to register cropouts. Yuck.
I’m fortunate enough to know several men who think Skantchy there is fugly, with or without her makeup, and even fuglier whenever she opens her mouth! I know I’ve always thought so! Anyone who makes it trendy for women to mutilate themselves to fill out a bathing suit is, IMO.
Oh dear, the poor creature looks as though he’s straining to poop or something really hurts but to look like that ‘just because’ is terrible.
Surely this horse doesn’t really win classes?
If he does then he’s either being judged by blind car mechanics(?) or they’re bribed with a King’s ransom.
Thankfully someone had the sense to geld him.
“OMG” doesn’t real go far enough! : 0
Hi everyone , i have an important newsflash …His name is STERLING RACHWAL he is a horse mutilater, has cut the nipples off a brood mare in foal , and shoved broomsticks up the rectoms of horses tied front legs to fence…. a very sick man that is out and looking for more horses to mutilate He is in or around Fond du Lac New London ..he drives a 1993 Ford F150 blue..please look into this , he was charged and let out … he needs to meet with an accident in a quiet dark place.
[FHOTD in: As always, we do not advocate or condone violence here - but I certainly understand feeling it is deserved in this case! I will be tackling this subject after I have a chance to read all the case history over the weekend and we will talk about what we can do, legally, about this man.]
Here is his facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1625623660
It has a lovely picture of him hugging a dog, if you want to see what he looks like.
Here is his contact info from his resume I found on Jobster:
Sterling Rachwal
100 Marquette St.
Fond du Lac, WI. 54935
Phone: (920) 322-9494
Email: sterlingrachwal@yahoo.com
Here is his Yahoo profile:
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/NONDCP5SHGAURIAVYYAXN7FOKE
Not too smart, putting all your personal info out there for everyone to see when you make a habit of going around raping horses. I will be emailing all his facebook friends links to news stories of his sexual escapades. I have his full resume if anyone needs a welder to molest their animals. Complete with references.
Something needs to be done, the buzz around his area is that he is actively seeking to purchase a horse. Everyone needs to know what a creep this guy is so no more horses wind up victimized by his crazy ass. He needs to be locked up. (Let’s keep in mind a lot of serial killers started out doing exactly what he has repeatedly been arrested for)
The address he gives on the resume is for the Patricia M Ahern house, which seems to be a senior living center, but in an Ahern family obituary it was also referred to as a half-way house for emotionally disturbed adults. The phone number is for the house too. Kind of disturbing to think this sick freak might be around the elderly.
he has a profile on facebook…dont know if its the same guy..a photo would be great, then we can hunt the MOTHER FU**** down.
I believe the pic is accurate. A roach this bad is possible. I have another pic, of a different horse with a unbelieveable roach. Now I am not sure how to post pics on here (I am a first time poster), but I will add a link to my FB page with the pic……
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=6192609&id=570040284
This was a winning race horse in New Zealand. I took this picture and it is not altered. It proves that genetic deformities do happen, and the horse can be successful.
P.S hopefully the link works, if not, how do you post a pic?
Okay, normally I back FHOTD in her posts, but this time I want to point out some things that I haven’t seen anyone comment about.
Note the ‘candid’ picture. Don’t look at the conformation, look at the handler’s stance and the sets of muscles on the horse that are tensed. Handler’s legs indicate that she is putting pressure and trying to get movement from the horse. The horse has certain muscles tensed– namely in his neck, stomach, and tail– that indicate there is resistance there. Impossible to tell with a show halter how much pulling is being done, but the handler isn’t in a position to ‘present’ her/his horse, so I’m assuming that the handler therefore is trying to move or position the horse somehow. Which is good, because currently the horse is almost six inches ‘too close’ in his stance with his hind hooves pushed way up under himself. His tail is slightly away from his body and stiff– another thing that leads me to believe he is hunched and tense, not standing in a standard position. This horse isn’t roached– he’s just resisting some sort of cue or pressure. I bet a video camera from the other side would shed a lot of light onto the situation.
That said, the gelding is a typical example of what’s wrong with halter horses and many pleasure horses today– his withers are nowhere to be seen, his butt is too overpowered in muscle and underpowered in frame and angle, and he has those ‘pretty’ straight legs that break down within a few short years. But a roached back, I don’t see. I see a moment’s reaction to something the handler is doing.
Hmm, when she doesn’t have make up, Pamela Anderson doesn’t look so much like Chucky. I’m almost disappointed.
I’m no expert on photograpy, but the second pic looks distorted. I wasn’t there….but I’d sure like to see the video that was mentioned. What is the horse’s registered name?
I want anyone else that is in florida to hunt this horse down and get some more photos of him.. get more than one and I’ll buy the horse is like that.. and if he really is, and the judge(s) are placing him higher than dead last, the APHA needs a write in to get them to yank some cards.. that is a disgrace!
But I want to see some more pictures confirming that is ‘normal’ for this horse, like a side shot of him walking.
If the photographer could not take her eyes off the horse in the entire class because of it’s freaky look, then she did not just catch it in a bad position for just a quick shot.
First time poster, but this hits close to my heart, so I must tell my story too.
I have a roached back APHA gelding, and believe it or not, I’m not a horrible person. Sometimes you can do your homework, follow all the rules, have a vet in the family, and still end up with a defect.
I’ve shown at the AQHA World show, and placed in the top ten. I know a good horse. I also know what some of those ‘big boys’ do to their horses. I’ve seen it first hand, I don’t agree with it, I’ve never been that type a person, and never will be. Hell, I want my horses to live past 5! …anyway, my point is, I know how some of those good ole boys do risky breedings, over feed, ‘roid inject, and B12 the CRAP out of their horses…I never did any of that, yet I have a roached back gelding.
How did I end up with my roached back sweetheart? I bought a well put together APHA mare in 2004. She was bred at the time, and to a very nice performance halter horse (HYPP neg.) Again, I didn’t breed these horses myself, but I felt confident in the cross because I’ve done more than my fair share of judging, and these were nice horses I’d met in person, a promising match.
When my guy was foaled in 2006, he was perfect. I mean perfect. I kicked the colt and his dam out in the pasture, with 24/7 access to shelter, they were never confined. He was never supplemented, but he just GREW, and too fast. I NEVER over fed my guy; I never injected him with anything other than the normal preventative medical immunizations.
My guy is in no pain, before he was started under saddle (at 4 years of age) I’d had him checked over, observed, and cleared constantly by vets, and I’ve had his back and whole body alined and adjusted. I had him fitted for a saddle, which really wasn’t has hard to find as you’d think. And now at 6, he’s well over 16.2, not over muscled, but built like a brick house. It’s a long way for me to climb up there, but he’s my favorite horse to ride, and the happiest horse I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. I’m not a selfish person, if he ever showed any signs of pain; he would have the best care, just as he always has.
I’m glad your horse has a good place with you! I don’t think anyone’s bashing roach backed horses here – we’re bashing judges who would place them highly in a halter class. I think that’s always been Fugly’s message – love your fugly horses, they’re often wonderful animals, but for pete’s sake don’t breed them! Fortunately this guy is a gelding, trained to ride, and looks very well cared for and loved. No complaints about the owners here. But he’s won multiple halter classes against decent competition? WTF?
[FHOTD in: Yes, that's exactly my message. I have had many fugly horses and loved them - but they did not deserve to win at halter and be held up as the standard breeders should aspire to.]
Thank you ladies; I understand what you mean now. And sometimes I can totally relate. Without trying to sound like I’m pulling the ‘it’s all political’ card (because I’ know it’s not, I’ve worked many show rings) …Sometimes while showing my stallion in AQHA shows, when I’ve got a ‘good ole’ boy for a judge, they’ll place the limping, whale-like, stallions we (my stallion and I) have Grand Championed over before, ahead of us because the guy holding the lead is…
A) His friend
B) someone he wants to sell a horse to,
C) has those stupid fat-framed glasses on (not prescription!) or..
D) because he’s got a penis, and little girls like me have no business in a Stallion class, because WATCH OUT I’ll be mounted if I’m ovulating, because you KNOOOW they smell that right!?
For some reason the woman judges just don’t do this, they pull the limping whale out right after he fails his 2nd attempt at the cones.
Wow… FHOTD, have fun with this one!
http://diamondcranch.info/default.aspx
http://diamondcranch.info/horsebreakingandtraining.aspx
It’s a pedophile’s dream! Who doesn’t want to board their horses at a place that has pictures of their toddler peeing on the website? Not only that, you can also have your horse broke by Jr while he’s there. He’s on the high school rodeo team, you know, so he knows about them there horses.
Did I mention that they also breed miniature horses and gypsy vanners? These people are the epitome of every stereotype there is about BYB’s.
Ugh… I got booted….
He may not be as humpy in real life, but he still has NO WITHERS, a tail sliding off his butt, butt too high, and I don’t like the look of his legs.
I hate that there’s halter vs. performance type. If you must, you should have Hunter in Hand, Pleasure Type in hand, Speed/Athlete type in hand…. etc. A horse shouldn’t look like a beef steer. A horse should look like a fabulous ride.
That Paint horse Congress winner? UGH. Poor sad thing, about to trip over his nose. And that RIDER: If you have to rely on spurs instead of LEG, then you need to go back to beginner lessons w/o stirrups. Sit up straight, thumbs up, CONTACT. Har har, “Inside leg to outside rein” – this rider has NEVER heard that line, I guaran-DAMN-tee that.
The stuff that’s happened to the stock breeds over the past 25 years is so, so sad. Who the hell thinks that current trends in WP and HUS really and truly look like fluid, fun to ride, good-moving horses?? People who’ve never seen horses like that mare posted by the same person who posted the Congress winner, I guess. So sad, because I really love Quarter Horses for their easygoing personalities and true versatility.
Cathy, I know you’re going to subject your big, beautiful colt to the AQHA scene, which makes me very sad, since you’re usually such an advocate for horses’ welfare. Of course there’s abuse all over the horse world, but the blatantly incorrect gaits and artificial frames imposed by the stock horse breed shows? That’s just not right in any sense of the word.
First of all, I do agree with you about halter. Performance halter should be the ONLY halter.
However, I don’t know that you’ve ever been in or around a stock horse barn that uses humane methods. I’ve watched a lot of the VLC’s training. I’ve never seen anything objectionable. He’s never gone in anything more severe than a plain ring snaffle (now he’s being finished in the bosal). My trainer only wears spurs to make a point, or for showing. For example, he had spurs worn on him when he was balky about learning to sidepass. Once he agreed to it, they came back off. His head carriage is natural as to height – he lopes level and always has. This is not particularly uncommon for Quarter Horses and similar stock type breeds. His head carriage has been refined only in that he’s been taught to bring his nose in to the vertical position, where the natural position was stuck out more.
I mean, you’ve probably seen this picture before, but here he is the summer I was just starting him – I’d never made ANY effort to adjust his head carriage in ANY way. This is normal for him. If anything, we’ve had to pick his head UP a bit.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ub1oYBFF7s/SJVDKdScHKI/AAAAAAAAAHk/PayyBmy6how/s400/cathycecilride8208c.jpg
Don’t jump to the conclusion that this kind of carriage is “unnatural” – it’s not, for many horses. The speed of gait is simply a matter of training. A high level dressage horse trots in place, and no one screams about that, do they? A show ring jog and lope are comfortable gaits that are enjoyable to ride. They can be achieved humanely and without abuse. I don’t think it’s fair to knock the entire style because SOME people achieve it with abuse. That’s like saying the piaffe is bad news after watching charro trainers accomplish it by whipping a horse in the cross ties. Is four beating ugly? Sure. But lots of horses can lope slowly without four beating.
Oh, and the first thing my trainer did with me is ream me out for riding too much off my inside rein in the old-fashioned style. She totally drills inside leg to outside rein through your head whether you like it or not!
Ah, phooey – the VLC photo isnt coming thru.
I do totally agree with the bosal to snaffle to Big Boy bit method of training, though I wish that you could show a horse in a bosal for life if he’s good with it.
A horse that naturally moves level? Good. There aren’t a lot who do, though, and I’ve yet to see a “level” horse be truly collected and engaged.
My own QH, who’s been H/J/Dressage ALL his life, has a very nice little sproingy but not bouncy jog (usually when I want him to walk, ha ha) and a very nice little lope (usually when I want him to trot, so it’s time I get myself some good riding lessons & figure out what is UP with me!!). In fact, his working and extended trots are very smooth and sittable, as is his regular canter. The funny thing is, when I think he’s putting his head way down, I look at our shadow and his neck is merely somewhat arched, nose nearly vertical, with very light contact. (Not NO contact – he doesn’t like that. I don’t either.)
Riding a horse with a stretched out, level neck would be very strange to me, and feel strung out and disorganized. A horse forced into an A frame? NO.
I’ve seen plenty of stock horse trainers that aren’t overtly cruel in their methods, and their horses are generally content in life outside the ring, but the artificial gaits, post legs, teeny tiny feet, spur stops, extreme headsets and jerkjerkjerk on the reins will eventually take their toll.
I was at the Fair last year, and the Western judge (a Paint guy) kept placing a DEAD LAME horse. Like, FIRST or SECOND out of 20 horses. Instead, he should’ve told the girl to give it up for the day.
I couldn’t bear to go to “English” day….
(To be honest, I WOULD “pick his head up” to help facilitate correct movement. I’m glad you’re treating him right for the most part, but the crap I’ve seen at the local level on up to Congress makes it impossible for me to support any HUS or WP in the stock breed world.
He’s such a pretty horse – I’m always a sucker for metallic buckskins, and he’s got a nice overall balance of conformation to him I like to see. But he won’t ever move well off his HQ with his head stuck out like that – or if he does, it will be IN SPITE OF not being able to use his head/neck rather than BECAUSE OF.)
Cathy, breeding a horse to move like this is, IMO, actually worse than teaching it to do it.
Why is breeding a horse to go that way worse?
I got on a horse a few months ago, and the second I put the inside leg and outside rein on and got the quarters engaged, he went into that low, level headset and it was perfectly comfortable for both of us…and I sure as heck was not about to try and get him in a dressage frame. It was nice, so I wasn’t going to mess with it. I could get on a different horse and give the SAME aids and get a dressage frame with the forehand lifted and the poll high (Contrary to the crap you see, the poll is supposed to be the highest point unless you have an insanely cresty stallion who just LOOKS crest high).
Four beating, etc, are to pleasure what rollkur is to dressage. But a good pleasure horse has to have the genetics and the build as well as the training…and a GOOD pleasure horse does not four beat…like that little guy I got on who is clearly bred for pleasure, a good pleasure horse glides. Naturally.
And just because I prefer a nice lift through the forehand and impulsion and big action, doesn’t make the pleasure types wrong. Different style for a different purpose. And absolutely horses should be bred for both purposes. I would not want to make Chico go like a dressage horse…and I certainly would not attempt to make Clay go in a pleasure frame. He’d probably explode.
A horse that is selectively bred for a purpose will perform that purpose better and stay sounder. The problem is that the BREEDING has become as messed up as the training in some areas.
The unshopped picture is of a Tapir, a large grazing mammal related to the horse. http://www.tapir.org/tapir_photos.html
A blind man can see he is roach backed…but is he colicking also?
His flank is sucked up under himself and he has his hind end way underneath him.
It looks like a classic colic stance. I had a horse that would “tie up” and he also would suck everything in or underneath himself.
If I found him in a stall I’d be giving him banamine and calling the vet.
How about this horse. Not only is he a stallion who is being bred, he is also HYPP NH…
Most of his winnings are in color classes but it states he has won halter classes, of course as mentioned, there is no telling how many entries were in the classes.
He is just gross! Breeders like this make me ashamed to be a Paint horse owner/member!
Somewhat off topic, but, yesterday I was shopping around the internet for my next horse. I was just looking for something young, tall, stocky, and quiet-minded, preferably straight from the breeder so it’d have no baggage. Almost every breeder site I visited had, standing at stud, a massive bulldog who tested positive for HYPP. Then I came across the motherload. http://www.scheckelpaintandquarterhorses.com/ Their stud Kids Classic Style is GIGANTIC! He looks like he’s about to burst through his skin. The 3/4 behind and straight forward shot are absolutely ridiculous. And of course, he is HYPP N/H. Having had a very young horse who was HYPP H/H, and having to watch them die from it, this is quite an important and sensitive topic for me. So, finally fed up, I decided to e-mail this breeder, quite politely asking why they choose to breed a stud who is a positive carrier of the disease. I would love for you to see their very kind and concerned response.
“HYPP Guarantee: If your 2011 foal is unregisterable due to HYPP restrictions by AQHA you will be entitled to a rebreed.”
Don’t worry, if your foal is born with a deadly disease that it inherited from my stud, just dump it at an auction and I’ll let my stud hump your mare again for free!
AllieaDay…found this on their website “HYPP Guarantee: If your 2011 foal is unregisterable due to HYPP restrictions by AQHA you will be entitled to a rebreed.”
Or more simply put, try, try, try again and hide the others.
DO share!!! I’ve been bothered by that horse for awhile….
I can’t stand that overfed Kobe beef look so popular with ignorant (but rich and powerful) owners and breeders.
Poor horses. They can’t help it that their asses are sliding off their bodies and that they’ll never be fit for riding….
WHY are there no side-views of the Paint stallion?
cattypex says:
DO share!!! I’ve been bothered by that horse for awhile….
I can’t stand that overfed Kobe beef look so popular with ignorant (but rich and powerful) owners and breeders.
—
It reminds me, more than anything else, of photos of Italian Heavy Draft horses, which ARE “beef” horses now bred primarily for the meat market.
To me, this seems like the obvious next step to recoup costs from breeding large non-riding animals. I doubt HYPP makes a difference on the dinner plate, and if they’re going to be conformationally crippled with tiny feet and post legs, well, color me not surprised when the first specialty butcher’s offering takes off as the ultimate end product.
Argh!!! Glittering jewels and blinking text!
That right there would make me abandon ship if I were thinking of dealing that person. Although I have seen worse websites.
Ok I know my overlay’s conformation isn’t perfect, but I couldn’t help myself:
When I see this:
I simply cannot help but compare it to this:
My thoughts exactly! I actually mentioned that in my original e-mail. hahaha!
Allie, I can see why you did!
Not to be too crass, but how does he mount a mare? He has so much of himself to contend with, I’d be worried about him injuring himself attempting to live cover!
OMFG, that *thing* even has muscles in his FOREHEAD! I am just waiting for the cattle industry to start breeding for HYPP on purpose.
I’m sure he’d be a great mascot for a kid’s book “My Horse Can Moo, Can You?” But I will always be baffled as to why anyone would want to own and breed something that hideous outside of an online game.
Reminds me of this…. http://blogmuscle.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/wendy1.png or these
Oh my God, that is unbelievable. Is that common? I mean a little teeny tiny part of me wants to say, “well, at least they’re honest,” but I can’t, it is just too sickening. With crap like this it is very hard to take the stock horse world seriously. I realize that all breeds have issues but come on!! You know, I could see sometime in the future the AQHA, APHA and some of the other big breed organizations going to congress and asking permission to reopen slaughter houses. They’ll say “if you let us run them then we’ll be sure the horses are all treated very humanely.” That would be the best of all worlds for them. They could keep supporting horrible breeding practices and double their profits. Disgusting!
Actually, what would really be nice is for the AQHA and other organizations to step up and just say that any offspring from any HYPP positive horse or carrier will not be registered, irregardless of the foals HYPP status. Yeah, it might be unfair for those foals that aren’t positive but how the hell else are you going to keep people from breeding these horses???
Just a quick stop should do the trick…oh wait a minute, that would imply forward motion exists.
HMMM….Evidently all the judges are WILD about horse’s marking of a cowboy reclining. What else COULD it be???
Oh, and for something more on topic, my cousin has an appendix gelding with a roached back (though not quite as severe as the one pictured) who is an extremely successful hunter, both U/S and O/F. They’ve been competing for (and winning) North Carolina state championships in both the children and senior divisions for years now. So, not all horses with this deformity are lost causes. But it’s definitely pretty crazy that that horse won any halter class…
…but weren’t you just praising the Pinto registration a month or so ago because almost any horse could get into it and it was a good org. to show in?
Don’t get me wrong, that it still one terrifying looking Frankenhorse.
Kim- a roach back is a congenital deformity (in other words, the horse is born with a birth defect). The deformity causes the spine to curve upwards between wither and loin, instead of the slight downward curve it should have. Roach backs can range from mild, to extremely severe. This particular example is kind of mid-range. Some are so mild you have to know what you’re looking at to recognize it, some are so bad that they really do resemble a camel.
Some examples:
http://www.american-flex.com/shim%20use.htm
That people are even trying to discuss this poor horse rationally blows my mind. He looks like somebody shoved an ice cube up his ass.
Lovely. Just lovely.
here’s a great horse ad I found…
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grd/1585858727.html
Could have used some photoshopping itself.
AllieDay and Zellgirl- Holy carp!! I think I know some Angus beef producers that wish their bulls looked that muscular!!
Is purposely breeding grotesquely over muscled stallions supposed to make up for the short-coming of male owners? I suspect this is some sort of overcompensating behavior, like buying a red sports car. Seriously makes you wonder (“I am serious lacking in bed but at least I own a STALLION”). WTF???
My original e-mail : (I’ll admit, I was a bit more smart-ass than probably necessary, but like I said, by this point I was absolutely fed up.)
Just out of curiosity, why do you continue to breed horses who are positive for HYPP? Even if your bulldog of a stud doesn’t show any symptoms of the disease, that doesn’t mean that his offspring won’t. You may be subjecting them to a horrible fate of conscious suffocation. So why not just geld him and let him lose some of that muscle weight, be comfortable, and let him be a normal horse? I know very healthy percherons who don’t weigh as much as your quarter horse. All the extra muscle doesn’t even allow him to have a full coat of hair. He looks like he can’t walk comfortably, let alone run or buck. He has good conformation (for a halter horse, and most likely a halter horse only) and a cute little face, but right now I can’t help but be reminded of Arnold Schwarzenegger circa 1968. I will never understand why this look is desirable or why the AQHA and APHA continue to condone it. It is far from healthy. HYPP would be so easy to eradicate if greedy people would just stop breeding horses who are positive. Thank you for your time.
The very gracious Tom Sheckel’s resoponse (and I swear, this is straight-up copied and pasted) :
how many horses do you have i would like to bet there is something
wrong with every one of them . maybe we could shoot them all ?then we would not have stupid people coming up with an idea like this. TOM SCHECKEL
My response to that :
Maybe you misunderstood me? I was not suggesting killing anything. And how exactly would shooting my horses keep people from being concerned about the growth of HYPP? I have two healthy and well cared for horses, one of whom is still very much alive and happy at twenty-seven years old. I can almost guarentee that no owner of an HYPP positive horse will ever be able to truthfully state that. He is of the Impressive line, too, by the way, (his direct grandson) so I am very aware of what great horses his get can be. You’re right, though. Neither of them have perfect conformation. That’s why neither of them have ever been bred. But they both have perfect manners and are very much loved by myself, along with the special needs children that they give riding lessons to on a regular basis, and as long as they are still happy, healthy, and comfortable, they are not going anywhere. Another horse of mine, a grade gelding who was hands down the sweetest and most patient horse I have ever known, lived to the ripe age of thirty-six before he started having trouble staying up on his own, and I had to make the hard decision to have him put to sleep. I had a fourth horse. She was a very promising five year old mare who was rescued from an auction, but she was, unbenounced to us, positive for HYPP. We spent months bringing her back to health and training her from the ground up. She was gorgeous: 15.3 hands, stocky, bright chestnut with all the chrome. Then one day, out of the blue, she had an attack. All we could do was stand by helplessly as she went into a panicked seizure, and while still fully conscious and aware of her surroundings, suffocated to death. FIVE YEARS OLD. All I was saying was that by continuing to breed horses who are HYPP positive, you are subjecting many other horses and their owners to exactly the same fate. And for what purpose? Why not just stop? There are plenty of other lovely stallions out there who test negative, like your own stud The Perfect Hustle. So why do you keep breeding the ones who are positive? HYPP is an absolutely terrible thing, and could be completely abolished SO easily; all it would take is for breeders to stop breeding horses who are positive carriers.
Also, it’s very nice to see that someone who cares enough about horses to breed them would like to see someone else’s horses shot. I love horses, and I would never wish a horse’s death upon anyone. That, in fact, is why I am so concerned about HYPP.
If you’re interested, here is some varifiable information on the genetic disease that is HYPP. That’s right, genetic. That means it can and will be inherited by your HYPP N/H stud’s foals.
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php
Again, thank you for your time.
Oh my goodness. I cannot believe that was their professional response to your concerns. If somebody wrote asking after one of my horses, I would do my best to politely provide answers. That’s called good customer service. It is an asset to your reputation. It shocks me to hear somebody would offer such an aggressive reply, ESPECIALLY to see that they suggested shooting your horses!! Appalling, regardless of the situation.
I am so sorry to hear you had such an unfortunately encounter. But by your accounts, it sounds like you do very well by your horses to be a caring owner!
I am absolutely floored by Tom Scheckel’s response to your e-mail. What a heartless, worthless, money-grubbing POS! But then, we already knew that, since he is standing that stud. Even so, I was hoping you might get a thoughtful and tastefully-worded response detailing their reasons for continuing to breed N/H, but apparently his level of literacy is right up there with his level of responsibility.
Now i’m no expert on comformation but..WOW O_o something’s not right there. I’m sure he’s a sweet horse but halter classes are not for him.
And from the shopped picture, riding may not be that girls thing. She looks like if he moves she’s going to faceplant!