For those of you who think you are going to make money breeding horses!
Jan 29 2010
Truer words have never been spoken than this hilarious but ACCURATE article on the Chronicle of the Horse site:
Read it and get a good laugh – and then I want to ask a serious question:
Who here has actually made money on the sale of a horse they bred, after HONESTLY subtracting the care of the mare throughout the pregnancy, vet and farrier for mare and foal, and then all of the expenses you put into the foal from birth through the day someone actually put a check in your hand for it? This includes feed, deworming, vet, farrier, training, showing, etc. Usually people say “well, I enjoyed doing those things/was going to pay for them anyway, so it’s ok.” I know, but if you were really looking at breeding as a business with a goal of actually turning a profit – who here has done it?
We all know that nobody makes money breeding foals that sell for $1000, $1500 or less. But how many even make money on the ones that sell for good money?
I think most horse businesses survive thanks to offering training and associated services – not breeding. What do you think? Here’s a good opportunity to send a wake up call to the young and enthusiastic about the myth of “making money breeding horses” — share your stories!
On a SUPER happy note, we finally (competely) identified Hercules! Here is his USEF listing:Horse Name: GET SHORTY (4082241)Breed: THOROUGHBRED
Sire Name: SLEW THE BRIDE
Dam Name: FLOATING ALONG
WENDY JONES
WA
Owner Point States:
State Start Date End Date
WA 08/09/06 11/30/06
Date Range: 12/1/2005 – 11/30/2010
NO RESULTS FOR THIS HORSE
There isn’t any “Get Shorty” with JC so I wonder if he has a different name? Anybody got time to do some research about Floating Along’s foals today?  I believe he is a 1991.
188 comments to “For those of you who think you are going to make money breeding horses!”
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Wait, does this mean that on top of everything else he’s a Seattle Slew descendant? Or was his sire’s breeder just way too into Goth fiction?
Grandson of Seattle Slew and Kennedy Road – bred VERY well. I’m not surprised, and Katie will freak when she reads this because Seattle Slew bred horses are her favorite and she said after meeting him that she was sure he was one. She was right!
How cool, I’m glad “Get Shorty” was really him! No wonder I ran into a dead end searching USEA registrations, because she never registered him there! USEF shows him as USHJA registered only, so I call bullshit on her “Upper Level Eventer” fiction –not that he couldn’t have done it with proper care and a decent rider!
I do have a desire to one day breed Irish Draughts, but for the love of the breed. I’m pretty sure there will be no money made. Hopefully I just won’t lose too much. I’m worried about the breed, because they make such lovely crosses. There seem to be few breeders that aren’t crossing.
I found three foals for Floating Along and two of them were males. Fleet Prospector in 1988 and Da’or Wels in 1992. I searched from 1987 births through 1996 births. Pedigree Query has Fleet Prospect in 1988 but the pedigree doesn’t match. Da’or Wels isn’t coming up on pedigree query at all. It also looks like Floating Along was with the same owner/breeder for both foals.
Oh and there was no “Mares Bred Report” submitted on Slew The Bride until 1991
1992/04/07 Da’or Wels, b gelding by Slew the Bride… looks official from an equineline report
I have nothing to contribute here. I buy nice geldings. I suppose I like to support “quality breeders.”
I wanted to post a congratulations on identifying your handsome rescue….I’m REALLY hoping Wendy is mortified.
On Equibase there was no 1991 horse but there was a 1992 gelding with those parents named Da’or Wels – dob 1992 (California?). 21 Starts, 2 1sts, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, earnings of $8,077.
That has to be him. I know he raced at Emerald Downs, does it match?
If the horse was never raced then the JC will remove their name from the name list so it can be reused. My 1996 TB gelding never raced and his name is no longer on the list.
Oops – little bit more info – DOB April 7, 1992. Raced April 1995 through June 1997, mostly claiming races except for his first two. Looks like he broke his maiden in August 1996.
According to pedigreequery.com, Floating Along never had any offspring. I’m not sure how accurate this website is. Slew the Bride has several offspring, of course, but only a dozen or so that are geldings who were born within 3 years of 1991.
There are so many young people who think making money in the horse industry is easy and glamarous (I was one of these people not long ago!), when in reality, it’s anything but. It’s alot of hard work and long hours and you spend most of your time being some professionals personal bitch but get none of the glory. You get no social life, very little sleep, very little money, and it’s hard to keep from getting burned out. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. Not to say it can’t be rewarding, but it takes several years of being at the bottom before you’re even in the middle, and very few people ever make it to the top.
Pedigree Query sometimes updates ASAP, especially when a horse is put down on the track, but John Henry is still listed as living. My gelding, Echo Dancer, is one of two now, and his race record (which I received from The Jockey Club sent me when I discovered his tattoo) is not on the site. I supposed I could update the information myself, but I just never have.
I did put my AQHA gelding on the All Breed Pedigree ;o)
My little TB mare is named Etesian Echo. She is out of Bobby’s Echo, By Etesian Wind. Her other Echo bloodlines are Pine Echo by Pinebloom out of Wayfarer. I haven’t seen many TB’s with Echo in their name. My mare only raced once in ALabama, was a bleeder so she became a brood mare until I purchased her in 1996. She is 27 this year (April 6th). Somehow her papers remained with her all those years. I was just lucky I guess.
the info found on equibase.com matches the previous poster – Da’or Wels, 1992, foaled in california. I’m still looking for a pp chart.
Yup – here’s the record:
Emerald Downs 6/07/97 Race 10 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 5/26/97 Race 5 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 12/22/96 Race 7 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 12/06/96 Race 4 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 11/08/96 Race 8 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 10/19/96 Race 2 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 10/11/96 Race 7 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 9/21/96 Race 5 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 9/09/96 Race 7 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 8/29/96 Race 5 Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 8/12/96 Race 3 Maiden Claiming Chart
Emerald Downs 7/12/96 Race 1 Maiden Claiming Chart
Pleasanton 6/27/96 Race 2 Maiden Claiming Chart
Golden Gate 6/02/96 Race 2 Maiden Claiming Chart
Golden Gate 5/13/96 Race 1 Maiden Claiming Chart
Del Mar 9/08/95 Race 6 Maiden Claiming Chart
Del Mar 8/09/95 Race 4 Maiden Claiming Chart
Hollywood Park 7/01/95 Race 10 Maiden Claiming Chart
Hollywood Park 6/02/95 Race 9 Maiden Claiming Chart
Santa Anita 4/22/95 Race 6 Maiden Special Weight Chart
Santa Anita 4/08/95 Race 10 Maiden Special Weight Chart
Boy, that is a familiar story, isn’t it? Up the coast they go, down the ranks they go.
Thanks!
He’s not on All Breed Pedigree although many of Slew the Bride’s progeny are…and some are currently free: http://www.thehorse.com/Horses/View.aspx?adID=255. It seems to be his dam who’s hard to track down.
I agree with the breeding assessment. All of the breeders I know have made money through giving lessons and training horses. I used to take lessons from various members of a Trakehner breeding family and while yes, their weanlings went for $10,000 to $20,000, that money went right back into the pot to pay for the mares’ and other horses’ upkeep. The only time that might not have been the case was when they imported one of the first stallions from Poland in the 70s and for awhile had a rare commodity. I
I’ve always assumed that even the breeders who manage to sell some horses for over $10,000 have a second, primary source of income. The big breeders always seem to be doctors, lawyers, vets or some other lucrative profession. I don’t think anyone actually breeds and sells horses as their only source of income for all the reasons so aptly pointed out the COTH story.
I have only sold a horse when I wanted to buy another horse, so I certainly wasn’t looking to make a profit. I think it’s kind of like buying a new car; it loses 10% of its value as soon as you drive it off the lot and it’s all down hill from there!
And does anyone know of somebody who has actually paid $50,000 for a Friesian? That’s one thing I just don’t get!
I know a woman who paid more than that for a Friesian stallion. She put a ton of money into dressage training and showing him, but he’s gelded now and she just rides him for fun. He has a wonderful temperament and is a dream to ride, and at least for her, he’s worth all the money in the world.
Actually, some people at my barn was in a group who won the lottery. They bought four freisans for over 50,000 each, two brought to OH from CA, unseen in person but on the website. They’ve decided to go into breeding them. When their farm was built, they moved them.
When I was living in Northern Virginia there was a lady who owned 4 or 5 dressage trained Friesians. She was an accountant and her husband was a bus driver. Nobody could figured out how she afford these horses that cost like $20k each. She had a dressage trainer, fancy tack and her husband had very expensive classic cars. They ended up leaving the boarding barn when they bought their own property. Some of the boarders left with them.
Months later it turned out they had been embezzling money from the wife’s employer. The feds shut the farm they bought down, and the boarders had like 3 hours to get their horses out and find a new place to go. I think the Friesians ended up selling at auction.
It was a very bizarre situation.
I probably already posted this, but I’m on a message board for pony people and someone started a topic that opened a can of worms. There was a link to an article (sorry, I can’t find it) about an increase in preferences for small gaited horses and ponies. The poster interpreted this as meaning it was a good time to start breeding them, since there was a growing market. The responses were mixed, but none of the breeders who chimed in mentioned actually making money by breeding. Some of the members breed lovely ponies – Welsh and others. Not BYBs that I can tell. But I’m pretty sure you can make a small fortune breeding ponies if you start out with a large fortune.
So that’s how people get the idea that they should crank out small, colorful, gaited animals of varying quality. They delude themselves that there’s a market just waiting, fistfuls of cash in hand, who will never get enough of whatever they’re selling.
I live in the Midwest where a decent Paso Fino is somewhat hard to find and even a greenbroke one is $2500 to $5000.
My mom’s neighbor (now our trainer/lessons instructor) owns about half a dozen Paso Finos so she is pretty experienced with them in particular. She breeds them occaisionally, usually for personal use. She has a five year old gelding who is priced at $15,000. She says she probably won’t be able to sell him until the economy is recovered, but in the meantime she makes $500 to $1000 a week by giving lessons on him. Probably by the time she sells him, she’ll have the next baby ready for lessons.
People pay more for lessons on a Paso Fino (vs a QH) because it’s sort of a niche riding style. Plus the ride is so smooth and comfortable
I think you can make money if you find a niche market where there is demand and focus on quality NOT quantity!
Um, no… Monday of this week I put out the word among the distance riding community I’m involved with, that I am seeking a free or very cheap gaited horse, anything from 3yo to 15yo, unbroke to dead broke, it just needs to be 15 hands or more to carry hubby around. I would be happy with an ubroke youngster to train. I limted my search to GA and surrounding states.
I have gotten TONS of responses, offers of completely free, registered, well bred young gaited horses, and also several offers of already trained ones. Most of which I rejected out of hand because they were PONY SIZED. (I need something that can tote my taller hubby and much heavier Dad around, eventually).
If you want a gaited pony, just ask around, you can find TONS for free to $500, many of them spotted fuglies, but also a smattering of true quality.
I actually was strongly considering breeding my TWH mare (who’s very nice and has a good competitive record) but when I found out there were so many free and cheap, quality horses out there, I opted for the free, ready-to-break 4yo variety, instead of the very expensive and risky prospect of breeding. I chose a guarantee of size and type and color and sex. I don’t have to spend 3+ yrs feeding it and caring for it before it can start becomig useful.
I am saving many thousands of dollars, providing a nice horse with a good home and a job, and possibly saving myself some heartache, too. Everybody wins!
I may eventually breed my mare, but for now, I’m going to train someone else’s ooops baby into a good trail horse!
Another point to consider- I added it up, and by the time I bred my mare, and raised a foal up to 3 yrs old, assuming no major vet bills, I’d have spent around $7,000 to $10,000. My foal would not be worth anywhere near $7,000!!
If you breed a horse, you’re deluding yourself if you think that a) you will recoup your money by selling the offspring or b) it would be cheaper to breed than to buy.
Horses are money pits. It’s my opinion that wealthy people who have a horse breeding business, are doing it for 2 main reasons- 1. They love horses, and 2. it allows them to turn their horses into a tax write-off!
We are in NW FL and our local animal services has seized a beautiful spotted walking horse about 16’2. They have not been to court yet, so he is not available for adoption, but if you are interested, let me know and I will keep you informed. He is black and white.
you don’t happen to be affiliated with Panhandle Equine Rescue, do you? I am a Pensacola native, only moved away a few years ago. They do wonderful work. (I talked to them a couple years ago about a horse they had at their rescue and was flat told “we will not adopt out of state” despite my having tons of good local references, including people they knew. Which is why I have not inquired of them in my current search.)
I might be interested, if the horse I’ve found falls through. I’ve been offered a 15+ hand TWH gelding, 4yo unbroke, for free, I just have to figure out how to get him from 8 hours away in the cold wintry north… (I will go get him if the weather will ever allow!) I am pretty confident that this will work out, though, and he’s exactly what I had in mind- I wanted something I could be 100% sure wasn’t broke at 2 then ridden to death by some idiot redneck… this horse is calm, friendly, well mannered, in excellent health with good, well-cared-for bare feet, has had much of his groundwork done, just needs someone to spend some dedicated time with his training to get him under saddle. I am pretty confident I’ll be riding him within a month, and by the end of summer he’ll be a good trail horse.
But, you never know if his owner might change her mind about giving him away, I’d be devastated if she did, but if she did, I’d also still be looking.
You’re welcome to e-mail me directly at freedomtreeless@yahoo.com .
Melissa (in GA)
I find the tax write-off motive to be very common among TB breeders in the Ohio valley area. I spent the summers of my college years working at TB stallion stations and private breeding operations, and if my employer didn’t own a substantial stake in a few of the stallions, he wrote off the entire facility (in one case, including an on-site training barn and 1/2 mile track) to offset the millions he was making in another industry (same case: he inherited and jointly ran Consolidated Steel in Cincinnati). Neither of those scenarios have fared well since the economic mudslide last year. Heck, even when the economy was booming, not all the stallions would have full books of mares for the season. So those were stallions that were eating eight flakes of alfalfa and two quarts of grain a day (barring farrier and vet calls), and not producing as much revenue as they could have. And don’t get me started on the 100 or so mares we had at the stallion station at any given time, at least half of which were boarded there permanently (the facility owner also bought stakes in some of the better-bred mares, so he got a percentage of the foal sale). In the case of the owner of the stallion station, if he hadn’t bought stakes in some of that permanent breeding stock, his farm would be a new residential neighborhood right now (he actually had to sell off about 150 acres last summer to a developer to stay afloat). And these were not small-name studs either: the stallion station housed (during my summer there) Academy Award, who is a son of Secretariat; Canvas, who is a Mr. Prospector son; Norther Park, Da’White Judge, and at least one daughter by Hatchet Man. There was some decent Kentucky-caliber bloodlines, and from my understanding, Academy Award and Canvas are still there. So if any My-Little-Pony-Syndrome-afflicted Daisy Duke or equine-loving Mother Teresa thinks that they’re gonna put their kids through college breeding horsies, they can get in line for a free reality-check enema.
I just heard from a friend of mine that now works at that stallion station; the owner has been trying to sell Academy Award for the past six months. If a son of Secretariat won’t sell in this economy, what makes those BYBs think their fugly but lovable Applejack will fetch $1000?
Academy Award: Thought I just read he was retired to Old Friends in Georgetown KY in the Blood-Horse?
As to the tax right off thing, last I heard it is very complicated and you can’t just have 100% write-off year after year. Certainly in the golden age, the rich dumped money into the game and prior to the 1920′s there was no personal income tax at the Fed level. But as we all know, that changed over the years and the IRS has been brutal re: the hobby v. business qualifier. But there are operations that figure out how to do it.
Indeed he did, here’s the link to Old Friends’ news page (He’s the second story down):
http://www.oldfriendsequine.org/news.shtml
My friend who’s still at the farm told me that he’s had some serious lameness issues for the past year or so, and he had retired from stud duty for at least that long. It turns out a guy from Kentucky (not related to old Friends) had partially paid for him over a year ago, but hadn’t made a payment in quite some time. So the owner of Win Row canceled the sale and refunded the money. I don’t know whether Old Friends contacted him or vice versa, but It is nice to see his happy fuzzy face again. I really hope he spends many years in retirement in a big pasture.
I work at a farm that has a stallion who is well bred, competed and an excellent example of his breed. He is gorgeous and his babies are branded premiums of their breed. They sell these babies as weanlings for $10,000 and they sell. I would imagine they have made money on these babies but they leave as weanlings.
That would be a good example. And even then, if you look at what they’ve put into competing that stallion…I bet it was a while before they broke even.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking it. I love that we have good breeders out there. I’m only trying to make the point that it’s not a good source of INCOME. It’s more of an expensive hobby that we hope will be undertaken with great seriousness and responsibility.
I believe that the ONLY people to make money on horses are those dealers who buy the horse cheap on Friday night after feeding time, and sells it for more money on Saturday morning before feeding time. The only thing that costs them is the water the horse drank overnight and the wages of the guy who scoops the poop.
;o)
I know someone who has approx 2 acres of land and leases another 3 acres adjoining. She has 2 studs and several mares and absolutely NO grazing. All her paddocks are dirt/weeds. Every morsal of food must be brought in. Every single year they breed more babies. Do they ride or train any of their babies? No. I know of only one that they have ever had trained for their own use. The rest get sold for a couple thousand dollars (if that) or traded. When asked why do they breed? They loff the bloodlines. Who do they ride and compete? Horses they’ve purchased. I really don’t understand it. They spend literally ALL their income taking care of these horses. BYBs…absolutely. Making money at it? Not a snow ball’s chance in hell. On the up side ALL of her horses are healthy and well cared for. On the down side her house is literally falling down around her, she has no retirement money put aside, both her and her husband’s health is failing and I’m afraid that soon neither of them will be able to work. What then?
Well, on the upside, they sound like the sort of people who might just be smart enough to sell before the horses are in poor condition. And if they compete at all, at least they may have some connections to sell horses – but yeah, they need to get the young stuff trained. Are they still selling horses or are the horses just sitting and growing?
Actually I don’t’ think they bred any mares this year (thank God) but they have 3 youngsters that will be of training age next year. They have at least 3 that are of an age to be in training now. One that has been trained and ridden for a few months and then turned out and only one youngster that is currently being ridden with any regularity. Both of the studs were trained for riding and then never used. There is talk about gelding one of them and selling him but we’ll see. The horses they compete on are horses that they’ve purchased…not even the “prized” bloodlines they are breeding for. ?! Their daughter is really concerned that all this will fall on her head if something happens and they can’t care for their animals anymore so she is pushing for the gelding of the studs and the sale of the broodmares.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention…they haven’t sold a horse in at least 2 years but guess what? They bought a young filly! Why? So she can train her for competition! They have all those babies already eating them literally out of house and home with those bloodlines that they’ve been oh so carefully breeding for but they aren’t good enough! I’ll NEVER understand.
If what you’re breeding isn’t good enough for YOU to show…
wouldn’t that be your first clue that maybe you aren’t good at breeding horses?
No. I have never “made money” from our tiny, now non-existent breeding program. We did it for the love of the horse, and to try to create an athletic, balanced, trainable horse, as they are getting harder and harder to come by. 3 of our 4 foals have gone on to performance careers (barrel racing, reining, and CDE), and we still own the 4th who will be 4 this year and has just started under-saddle training. If we ever decide to sell the 4th, at this point it would cost a fortune for us to “break even”, way more than she would sell for. Never mind the hours and HOURS spent with our foals from the beginning teaching them how to be sociable, well mannered horses with the best chance for a future instead of letting them become little monsters. Daily. So- no, breeding is not a moneymaker, however, done correctly and with the right intentions, can be very satisfying.
When I retired from rodeo I decided for fun I would breed a specialized foal each year. Chose two mares carefully, picked a complimenting stud and raised one baby a year for several years. I can proudly say that I almost broke even and a couple of them. I had no trouble selling the babies, and the mares are still standing around happily doing nothing for the last few years since I saw the market starting to crash. And yes, I have a good job, it was just a hobby.
Until the economy tanked, my husband and I made our living with our horses. We stand a top stallion in our breed, and he attracts a lot of (quality) mares. Our foals are out of TOP mares, with show records and top pedigrees from bloodlines that are hard to find elsewhere. Our foals fetch $4500 to $10,000.
We grow our own hay. We do all of our own farm work. No employees or outside help of any kind. My husband does our hoof trimming, and has since the dawn of time. Our horses are all barefoot and do not require shoes.
We work with a great vet, and she has reasonable rates. We give our own vaccinations, which our vet is kind enough to sell to us at her cost. We deworm on a religous schedule, which I think helps a lot with the amount we have to feed to make everyone look beautiful. Keeping the parasite load down means you have healthier animals overall, who are utilizing every bit of feed better.
The costs for maintaining our broodmares is minimal, since we have a substantial amount of land, with excellent pasture. Few people are in this position.
My husband has also trained outside horses in the past, but the last couple of years I’ve been turning them down (not that the money wouldn’t be nice!), because I’m just so sick to death of the outside horse “thing”, not to mention that so many owners have a little “truth telling problem” when it comes to problem horses.
All in all? Up until the past year, we have made an excellent living. Now I am doing some work from home for a family member to make ends meet, but we still are profitable — just not “as” profitable as we have been in the past. Here’s hoping the economy will improve SOON!!!
Make money breeding… NO WAY. Breeding is for wealthy heiresses. Fugly, you forgot something in your list of expenses: For every six figure National Champion a mare produces, there are usually plenty of no-bodies out of her. So you have to factor in the cost of breeding, raising, training, shoeing, vetcare, and finding homes for all of those lower-end babies. The people that I know who breed ARE getting $50,000 to $100,000 for the great ones, and even they would never try to claim that it is a money-maker for the farm. Those prices just offset the cost of the breeding program and what is lost on all of the $5,00-$10,00 (or sometimes even free) babies. The training department makes all of the money. The breeding department fulfills a dream.
Excellent point. A friend of mine is going to look at an APHA mare this weekend – young, cute, broke, ready to show, the daughter of two world champions. For $1500. She’s just not that special. Nice but not what her parents were.
Her sire’s stud fee has been reduced this year to $1500 – used to be $2500.
That’s when you know you’re doing it right – when even an ‘oops, that’s really not what we were going for’ foal is a nice, rideable animal that can compete well at lower levels. It’s also the best argument I’ve ever heard for breeding only good tempered animals. People will put up with a high maintenance horse if it’s a world class performer, but what about the other 98% of the foals by that sire who aren’t? If they can’t be handled by someone less than a world class rider, they’re not going to end up anywhere nice.
Although with the APHA, is it also possible that this filly has no color? I generally agree that with the guideline that color is a perk, but the APHA is extra special in how it prevents its non-colored stock from participating in value raising competitions-particularly if you are limited to the breed circuit.
[FHOTD in: Nope. Loud colored overo. Welcome to the 2010 economy!]
Economy is right. We just bought a horse at auction. He has been Regional champion I don’t even know how many times, Youth National Champion, does Country English Pleasure, Equitation, Drives, and is only 12 years old. We paid $10,000 for him. Oh, and he is a full brother to a 4 time Park National Champion. In this case the economy was great for us. But, WOW, that is actually a little bit scary.
Whenever somebody reports what the current trend is in riding horses, I just wish that would drive people to the auctions to snag some suitable greenies to re-train and sell if they must sell horses. Don’t they realize that it is so much easier to start with an animal you can begin breaking immediately? Leave the breeding to those who have money to burn or real professionals (meaning they actually make a living from their work vice they own a few DVDs from some gimmick trainer).
If I may suggest a topic, assuming it hasn’t already been covered, how about “Where are the horses you have owneed today?” How many horses have you bought and how many have you sold? Here are my answers: Three of the six horses I have ever bought were green. Two were terribly spoiled and in need of re-training. One was a rescue. Out of six horses total, I have only sold two. One I know where she is for sure (she is safe and enjoying the rigorous competition she was bred for). The other, sadly, I lost track of and I fear for his safety.
I didn’t include both a donkey and a pony that I rescued. They won’t be sold.
I have a pony who was seized by animal services 3 years ago. I fostered her for her recovery and she was given to me because of all the money I had put into her rehabilitation. She will probably be with me forever as she has some issues and (sometimes I think I could be a hoarder) I worry that she would be sold down-the-road. She is opinionated about everything. Good as gold on the ground, but someone spoiled her in the saddle. When you get on, she bows up like “I am going to dump you.” and waits for you to jump off. I have only ridden her a couple of times, but after you get her thinking of going forward, she is fine, trail rides, no fear of anything, but — the child who could ride her (size-wise) would probably not be able to ride well enough to handle her and an older child couldn’t ride her because of her size – an unfortunate size for a pony.
I agree. If I was interested in trying to make money selling horses I would find some unbroke cheap cute little horse or pony and train it up, take it to a few shows and then try to sell it. Unless you have a top stud, a nice property and the funds to really support a breeding operation, it’s ridiculous to think you can make money breeding, regardless of the size of your operation. Unless you’re breeding a really rare breed that there is a market for. Even that market though doesn’t last once enough people catch on and start increasing the supply.
I think the best reason to breed is for the love of improving your breed. I think it’s important to focus on quality not quantity. I hate it when people breed a really nice stud to a piece of shit mare.
All things considered, I usually broke about even on the few pony mares I bred and the sold foals. I had two pony hunter stallions and they brought in a reasonable amount of money in stud fees (I was so darn picky about who I bred to!) so that kept up with their upkeep as well. I had one mare who was fabulously successful as a pony jumper and the judges occasionally fancied her bold hunter rounds. She held her own against full sized horses in lower level jumpers too and was no stranger to a very nice payback in prize money. She was a hormonal mess and vets had three suggestions for me. First, spay her. Nope, she was well bred, well conformed, and an A+ performer when not in heat (which was more often than not). Second, regumate year-round. We did that for a while, but when you and your whole staff is composed of breeding-age women, it makes handling and administration a pain not to mention the expense. Third choice was to keep her bred. This mare was a puppy dog when bred. She was almost always half-leased out to a student during her pregnancy and shown heavily plus did nearly daily lessons through fall, lightly shown for the early winter shows, then hacked around w/t until foaling was near. Her foals were always exceptionally independent and weaned around 2 months, then she was ready to be fitted for shows again. She thrived on the schedule and adored all the girls. She wasn’t bred every year, but usually about three in a row and a year off – nasty little bitch those off years! So… her upkeep and expenses were well taken care of by student leases, she was earning money from lessons, and every one of her foals sold for a minimum of $5K as a weanling. But that’s what happens when you breed one well conformed performer to another! She did mellow out when she hit her late teens and is no longer being bred, but has a home for life with the parents of a student who used to ride her before heading off to college. The pony is still going strong packing around a short stirrup kid. And yes, I have agreed to take her back if the “home for life” has any unforeseen circumstance that they can no longer keep her.
You weaned at two months? Isn’t that really young?
Yes, far, far too young, and if I had a dollar for every time I have heard that old chestnut ” independent foal” trotted out as an excuse to rip foals off their dams far too early- for gods sake the gut isn’t mature enough at that age for a foal to be off milk completely- I should be rich!
What you did was despicable- no wonder you made money, you gave no thought to the animal’s welfare at all.
Wow…did you ever stop to consider that those were lives you were creating for the sake of keeping one horse sane? I work in a show barn with a bunch of girls and when Regumate has to be given, it’s given. I think my hackles wouldn’t be so far up about it except that they were weaned at two months and probably sold off before you could see the negative effects. I’m sure we’d all love to know how they ultimately ended up because somehow I doubt it was with $5000 worth of good personality.
I wouldn’t jump on someone who produced high-value, usable ponies from a classy, sound and athletic mare. She sounds like she’d have been worth breeding anyway, even if it didn’t have the pleasant side-effect of making her more suitable for her other job.
Go pick on a BYB with broodies who aren’t suitable for anything bred to stallions who have never done anything.
Flashygrrl,
When it needed to be given, it was given? By which young woman? Were the girls even warned about the potential damage to their systems by handling Regumate or any horse that had recently been given the stuff? Just checking– I’ve found that many farms never even bother to mention such things to the help.
For gods sake you wear rubber gloves, it’s not rocket science!!!
Ventipulmin also has side effects for breeding age women….did you know that?
There are THOUSANDS of drugs, not passed for safe use by breeding age women.
You work round it.
Regumate is not lethal, it is only dangerous if used regularly and improperly by the same person.
Agreed. Just wear rubber gloves. No biggie. If it spills on you, wash your hands with soap and water. I personally have found that the best way to deal with Regumate is to put it in a mouthwash bottle that you squeeze to get the mouthwash up into the reservoir on the top. The line for the proper amount of mouthwash is 10 mL. So you just take out the squeezy thingy from the top with pliers, dump the regumate in, replace the thingy, and then squeeze up 10mL and dump it on the grain. One ACT mouthwash bottle holds about 3/4 of a big bottle of Regumate. No spillage, no mess, no problem.
a box of latex gloves will cost you $5 at your local pharmacy. You can get safety glasses and a dust mask from Wal-mart, again for under $5. As long as you wear appropriate protective equipment when handling it, and wash your hands thoroughly after, the risk is minimal. I’d also suggest gloves when washing out the horse’s feed pan, etc. But really, the danger is when it’s handled inappropriately.
I work around hazardous chemical and biological substances every day at work, stuff far more hazardous than Regumate- I’m careful to use appropriate personal protective equipment. If I had a mare who needed regumate, I’d give it to her, and I would not be worried about risk to myself, because I’d handle it carefully and appropriately.
The danger is when the stuff is used or handled inappropriately, or by a person who has not been informed of the risk of exposure, and the proper ways to prevent exposure.
I would definitely have a fit if I was at a barn where it was being used, and EVERYONE at the barn had not been informed of its use and the appropriate safety measured to prevent accidental exposure. You just never know when an unknowing soul might handle contaminated equipment, and be exposed. Everyone should be educated, and all the scoops, buckets, etc, that might come into contact with it should be labelled as such and kept separate from the regular equipment. As long as you exercise safe handling practices and educate anyone who might come in contact with it, it’s really not a big hazard.
Having said all that- if I were pregnant or planning to become pregnant, I would not administer it myself, no matter how carefully.
Melissa
Is it really that difficult in the average barn to find a happily childfree woman to handle the Regumate, if everybody else is scared to?
This begs another question: Has anyone actually known someone who has had a side effect from handling Regumate? I handled it bare-handed for long periods of time and never had anything resembling a side effect – of course I was never pregnant, but still. You guys are making it sound like it’s super toxic and I’m wondering if that’s more rumor than truth. Of course, I can also handle DMSO bare handed and not get any taste in my mouth or anything so maybe I just have an unusual level of resistance to things. I am very hard to anesthetize…you have to give me what you’d give a 200 lb. man to knock me out.
FHOTD,
I also have handled Regumate in the past. I know many women who have handled it. The issue isn’t that you will drop dead. The issue is that the hormones (powerful enough to effect a 1,200 lb horse) are absorbed through the skin. You don’t have to be super intelligent to see where this is going. A shot of Lutalyse (sp?too lazy to check my bottle) has the same risk to women, but it’s in a little shot, you send it under the horse’s or other animal’s skin, and it’s gone. Pitch the shot and finish your chores. Regumate is given daily, over and over, for months at a time, by either putting in the feed or squirting it into the mare’s mouth. How many of us worm our horses without wearing at least a smear of white for the rest of the day? Yet we think a pair of rubber gloves will protect us from Regumate?
I agree, in theory the risk of being permanently damaged by that splash of hormone is low. The risk of coming into contact with it is high, however. It’s in the buckets, potentially on the stall walls or doors, the horse’s halter, her water bucket, your clothes… see what I mean? Gloves and ‘being careful’ are all well and good, but in a breeding situation, like a big barn… what about the pregnant woman who wants to see your stallions and walk through your barn? What about that girl who walked through yesterday, and petted everyone’s nose?
To me, it’s kinda like those people who say that High Tensile fence is safe for horses. I answer– it’s even safer for horses if you don’t have it around.
As for the rumor versus the truth– I was warned how to handle Regumate by a veterinarian. I became pregnant after two years of unprotected sex, basal temperatures, etc (yes, I was married). I conceived about two days after using Lutalyse on an auction mare we bought. That might be coincidence. What isn’t coincidence is that the veterinarian wouldn’t even let me come and PICK up the hormone meds from his office once I was pregnant. He also threatened me with a beating (he’s a good family friend) if I even opened the bag once it was home. So maybe my vet was histrionic, but I doubt it. Regumate and the other similar drugs are hard on a woman’s system. Not something worth ignoring.
The one medication/drug that I find very disconcerting is iodine/betadine solution. In my state, it is now difficult to get off the co-op shelf because of the meth freaks and sellers. But it is available. Seems this stuff may have serious effects on the thyroid/lymph system, especially women.
“This begs another question: Has anyone actually known someone who has had a side effect from handling Regumate? ”
I haven’t heard of any really serious side effects — but many women have gotten a bit of a scare when they stopped cycling, and had to worry that the stick would turn blue.
I actually had the opposite reaction (yes, I knew to take care, but I would have had to wear a wet suit — this mare actually could SPIT IT OUT. I figured out how to prevent that. 
But I did have a reaction, and I have known others who did as well.
It’s too late now, but another thing that could’ve been done was have the vet put a marble in her uterus (it has like a 75% success rate) to keep her from going into heat. The weight from the marble “fools” the uterus into “thinking” it’s pregnant and the mare doesn’t go into heat. Here’s an article about it in The Horse: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=4189
I’m not a breeder, just a consumer. But this is what I know about the gelding I bought last year:
$500 stud fee
$400 Breeder’s Sweepstakes nomination
3 years of board for gelding – who knows, breeder had her own farm
Vet bills for gelding, shots, etc
Farrier bills
My gelding didn’t even bring a minimum $500 bid at an arab auction.
I paid $300 for him on spec – and he’s turned out to be quite beautiful and the best minded horse I’ve owned in a long time. He just needed some groceries and training. So I am enjoying the heck out of him, but his breeder definitely did not make any money.
If you think about it, a lot of the highjinks that go on in all breeds have a lot to do with the ends people will go to to try and make some money at it. The market manipulation in the Arab breed is legendary and plenty of lawsuits to prove that it goes on. I’m sure the same sort of thing goes on in all the other breeds as well.
Best to think of it as a hobby unless you are exceptionally skilled and exceptionally lucky.
I agree, though I’ve noticed that luck is something most breeders of average quality horses over-estimate, and skill (or lack thereof) is substituted with finger-crossing.
Before the economy tanked, I did very well in the breeding business. My stallion is a mulitple world champion. However, when I saw the writting on the wall for the economy, I quickly sold off most of my mares while prices were still good, keeping only a couple of the best ones. I now only raise 1 or 2 foals a year. I have no foals coming for 2010 or 2011. I plan to sit out a few years. I have no need of additional foals for myself to show and will concentrate on training those I did keep for myself. I do 90% of all the work myself, raise our own hay, and that is probably the best reason for making money. By putting my nice show horses to work giving lessons, I have been able to use them to help pay their own bills. I dropped back from rated shows to open local shows, which also has saved a huge amount of money. I just did my taxes and I still actually made a profit, but not a big one. As long as my horses can break even, that is good.
Elements Arabians/Stephanie Wind seems to make a lot of money breeding high-end arabs.
LOL. Oh my
I am really hopeful that some where far in my future I will have earned enough money to blow a ton of it on horses while still maintaining a comfortable lifestyle. I really want to breed Appaloosas, because I feel like a lot of the color is being bred out of them with all the TB/QH/Arabian crosses. I’d like to breed a small number of quality horses (good conformation, good show records, good temperament) but making color a priority too.
I also want to breed my mare who isn’t really anything special, except she’s really special to me. I plan on keeping the baby forever. I plan on keeping my mare forever too, but I’d like to know that after she’s gone that I have a little part of her in her foal. I purchased the breeding through a stallion auction that was raising money for horse research and I’m sitting on it until I’m ready to use it.
While I’m SO happy that the mystery of Herc has been solved, I want to send out the eyes on what is probably the WORSE little rescue of this year.
Mr. American Beau Jingles literally stumbled into the care of Sunkissed Acres in Summerville GA – http://sunkissedacres.com/
You can read his story at COTH and at the website – He didn’t even rate a F’ing 1 on the scale! Sadly, despite the amazing attempts at care by Lori and her vet, the poor little guy was lost.
From Lori’s post – I had to keep him bedded in hay because he kept eating anything underneath him. He actually ate gravel, he ate half my thumb. I couldnt get him to let go of the worming tube. He even liked that. He just couldn’t get enough to eat fast enough.
He evidently has some serious expensive Vet/Farrier care pre-starvation, and was found with a brand new halter that hadn’t even rubbed his face yet…
I know that the gal from whom I bought my youngster sells her horses for reasonable prices, breeds SMALL foal crops each year (even smaller over the past few years due to the economy)…..AND HAS A FULL-TIME JOB AS VET-TECH. So…does she make big bucks breeding? Maybe some years – when she has a super-super-exceptional baby that she sells quickly. I do notice that MOST of her stock are sold as weanlings and yearlings. She has a good stallion (lost her senior stallion this year at age 27), and probably gets a fair amount of outside breedings, but if she were REALLY making big $$$$$ I doubt she’d still have an outside job. Still, she raises very nice horses and I’m glad she’s still doing it.
Quick request for advice: Looking a new trailer…..do you guys have any experience with mangers in a slant load? Good or Bad…Thanks
I hate fixed mangers. Seen one too many horses get a leg up in them.
I like my horses to be able to put their heads down a bit, to blow dust and such from their lungs/nostrils. Fixed mangers prevent that.
i’ll also vote ‘no’ for mangers. For both the reasons stated by the first two!
On the flip side, though, the mangers allow you to have storage underneath which is nice…
I wouldn’t pass up a nice, reasonably-priced trailer that was what i needed, because it had mangers. But if you get a trailer with mangers just be aware that if you tie your horse too loose, they can get a foot up there. And if you tie them tight enough that they can’t get a foot in the manger, you’e tying them too tight to allow them to lower their heads.
When hauling in a slant load with mangers, I would suggest stopping every couple hours and untying them, to allow them to put their head down if they feel the need. Unless you have really big horses, most slant loads will have room for them to put their head down despite the manger.
It’s wonderful how you have found some info on Hercules! Hopefully you can find out more soon.
As for breeding…I have never bred. Don’t have the time, money nor experience with breeding and raising foals. If I could get the experience, and had proper funding, I might…I just don’t think it’s my calling though. But if I did, I wouldn’t expect profit nor do it for the profits. Because I’m fairly certain it’s the highest of the highest bred foals that bring in profits. If you skimped out on proper care, you might come out with profit —- but that, in my opinion, in unacceptable and would definitely reduce the value of the foal anyway.
Simply put, although I don’t have first hand experience, I don’t think there is a gold mine in breeding horses. As the saying goes, you have to spend money to make money, but in the case of foals? You’re spending more than the foal will be worth, even when you do everything right and breed great quality offspring.
I don’t think the respectable and reputable breeders do it for the profit it brings…I don’t see where any huge profits are being made in normal circumstances. It’s reasonable to assume those who are doing it right are doing it because it’s something they enjoy. And those who are breeding everything without any consideration are in the very incorrect mindset that you’re basically getting a ‘free’ horse to sell…and they don’t take into consideration EVERY horse, be it foal or adult, costs $$ and time. And pregnant mares and their foals cost even MORE than the average horse!
Hm. To try and sum up what people have said here, to make money breeding horses you need:
1) One of the top five stallions in your breed or discipline
2) The best broodmares in your breed or discipline
3) Enough land to grow your own hay and have lots of pasture grazing
4) A lifetime of experience with horses and in your breed/discipline
5) The skills and energy to do the great majority of the work yourself
6) The market to consistently sell your weanlings in the $5000 – $10,000 range
And even then, you’d make a lot more training!
In other words, it takes a truly professional and world class operation to be successful, regardless of the number of foals produced every year. ‘I bought a piece of property, so I’m going to get the best horses I can afford and breed ‘em for some extra cash’ just doesn’t fly.
Is anyone here surprised by that? I sure hope not.
I remember a Paso Fino breeder in my area, “Valerie”, who had over 50 head on less than 20 acres. She priced these poor little fuglies anywhere between $5,000 and $20,000. Needless to say, they never sold. But that didn’t stop her from breeding more!
I only saw her one time, at a horse camp during a big trail ride where she was trying to hock these poor things. They weren’t in the worst shape, but definitely not in the best shape either. You could tell there were some neglect issues, and most of them were barely 14hh. And on top of that, it was obvious a lot of them had DSLD!
Needless to say they laughed her and her expensive little horses right out of camp. I heard horror stories about her place and the condition it was in. I tried to locate her after I got home but no one seemed to have her last name, number or exact location. I suspect this had something to do with her friends and the fact that I am known for being a bit of a hellraiser when I see abuse or neglect.
Anyway, long story short, I finally saw her on the news, all her horses had been seized and she was labeled a hoarder and charged with neglect. I think the final total seized was 77. I’m going to venture to say her little forray into horse breeding cost her a bit more that she made.
Ach it irritates me when I see Paso Fino’s that are prone to DSLD. If you breed CORRECTLY you end up with a very stout horse with good pasterns (as well as good overall conformation!). The owner of the facility that I work at has owned Paso’s for YEARS and has never had ONE she has bred OR owned come down with DSLD (or any other disorder). She strenuously researches bloodlines and breeds excellent examples of the breed
Oh and on to the breed debate quickly. She hasn’t bred her stallion to any of her mares in over 3 years. She has a 2 year old out him by someone elses mare. She has 6 of them for sale inbetween $4000-$8000 depending on training level. She told me at one time it wasnt that unlikely for her to sell $25,000+ in horses ever year. But now…. good luck
OT – My name is Valerie and I worked with Paso’s and I was like huh? WTH did I do? Lol… never mind not me. I dont own any
“…they need a $1000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.” So true!
I have to imagine that a local stable around here makes money on the ponies they breed. My friend works there as barn manager and she’s told me how much those ponies sell for (50 grand for one, I think, for example, although I really have no idea what the average prices they usually go for as their website doesn’t have prices) and the few times I’ve been there that barn was hopping – on any given day they have people coming in (flying in from other states, even, all up and down the east coast) to try out their ponies for sale, or lease one of their ponies for mega bucks, or whatever. The clientele there is the richest of rich, it seems. They make a killing on boarders and lessons and training and showing, too (I could never afford to have a horse there), but their main function seems to be the training and sale of hunter ponies (occasionally horses too) and while they don’t breed all of the ones they train, they have some foals every year. One of their homebreds that is only 3 or 4, I think, was champion in green something at pony finals last year and was expected to sell for some ungodly sum. One of the ponies that came through that barn was made into a breyer pony, even. So, that lady has found a niche in the hunter pony world and her ponies are hot stuff amongst the rich people. Beats me how much her operating costs are, but the sale price of her ponies are crazy, and they sell like hotcakes it seems.
Heh. I just realized that Da’or Wels was Slew Road backwards. DOH.
HIs last two races charted….
22Dec96 7EMD6
4 Da’or Wels (Cooper, Geoffrey) 122 BL 4 9 4(1) 4(head) 9(3) 9(4) 7.90 steady urging
26May97 5EMD9
11 Da’or Wels (Allen, Mike) 122 BL 11 8 4(head) 9(1) 11(2) 11(2 1/2) 25.00 stalked pace, gave way
Just another thought – if you think you are going to breed for a profit, you have to treat your farm as a business. Most people who are rational will write a business plan before they go into business. If you can’t write even a basic business plan that shows you will make a go of it, why would you breed?
Of course, that’s where most people go off the rails – they don’t think or plan before they breed for their first foal – they just do it for whatever the reason. No wonder most horse breeding operations, from small to large, are spectacularly irrational and spectacularly unprofitable.
Never made a profit on the horses we bred. We bred them because we were trying to preserve the old-time naturally gaited walking horse. We didn’t put more than three or four foals on the ground each year, and were still building our broodmare band. Maybe we would eventually have made a profit, if my husband hadn’t died unexpectedly. We made money on cattle, hay and timber — so the walking horses were a kind of loss leader — it didn’t hurt that he had a small rural law practice either. But he was a cattleman who became an attorney, not an attorney who became a cattleman.
We had one or two part-time seasonal hands to help us out, but we did a lot of the work ourselves because we enjoyed it. If you figured in the costs of training and showing, in addition to feed, farrier and vet fees– horses were a losing proposition moneywise. But they were priceless for the lessons they taught the kids, and the joy they brought us just to have them around to ride, care for and watch.
Our breeding program was fairly small – just over a dozen foals produced before his death. But one, Double Delight of Pride is a successful multi-championship flat-shod show horse and stallion in Germany. Directly had a very respectable show career in Texas and, so did The Houston Solution– but I never could find out what happened to him, or if he is still living. Coin’s Avalon Amber went on to produce some successful show horses for her new owners– but some fell into the hands of the big lick people.
We had two foals stillborn, and one whose dam kicked him and broke his leg when he was about two days old- he could not be saved. The rest went to pleasure, field trial or working homes, a couple of these were lost to colic, founder or accidents– but they had reasonably good lives.
So I would caution ANYONE that breeding horses is NOT a money-making proposition– the rewards are intangible. And right now, if you want or need a horse, go to a rescue, go to an auction if you know enough, ask around at the vet’s or the feed store—but DON’T breed to get a horse. There are plenty of good sound horses already alive who will be well suited for almost anything — even showing — with the right training and some time. Hell, there are even some very well-trained horses available for very reasonable prices– under $1,000 out there –the way the economy is. Just do your homework, and get a vet check before you buy or adopt.
When I was studying for my Animal Science Degree the thing that opened my eyes was a process of breaking out the different “divisions” of a farm. If you grow your own hay, then charge your “breeding” division for the hay at market prices. Charge your “lessons” division for the “lease” of your horses. Charge your “training” division for your hourly rate as a trainer and the market rate for “board” in your area.
It will rapidly become clear that most horse breeders are really good hay farmers with an expensive hobby to occupy the time while the grass is growing. Also, the only way to make money on hay is to already own the land. In other words, in most places, the hay prices will cover the taxes, but you’ll need a day job to afford the mortgage.
There are two ways to become profitable, either find a niche and charge a premium for your management skills; or become a factory farmer for a Farm Bill crop with high volume and high efficiency.
Needless to say, I work in biomedical research instead of the horse business. I just bought 5 acres so I can raise my own food (not counting labor a positive on the balance sheet) and support one well behaved, well trained horse (an expensive hobby).
There s a third way:
Lie, cheat and defraud people out of their money, as a lot of “top” (so called ) breeders do!!
So glad that you found info in Herc! The barn I ride at is really big into “why make more when so many rescues need homes”, so there is rarely a baby around. Also, this is kinda random, but one of my friends is looking to buy a horse, and she is considering a saddlebred/thoroughbred gelding. He’s 7 years old with good put not prefect conformation. She’s really big into hunter’jumper, dressage, and eventing, but doesn’t know if a cross like Teddy would be good and able to handle it. What are your guys’ opinions?
It mostly depends on his comfermation and additude. My rule (mostly since my horses are rescues or mixed breeds) is 1. That it depends what the horse is physically capable of. and 2. What does the horse LIKE to do.
I have seen the best built horse HATE the disapline the owner was doing, and it took years of frustration on both their parts before the owner moved on. But see the horse the next year at our local show doing something differant with a new owner and it is placing constantly.
So especially if its a rescue my advice is to look less at the breed and more at that horse as an indavidual in both talents and temperment.
I have taken lessons at two saddlebred barns including hunt seat lessons and their horses were very good and loved their job. I also used to be a vet tech and my boss specialized in saddlebreds. Depending on which sort of saddlebred person you are talking to they seemed to be of one of two opinions A. Saddlebreds are only good for saddleseat or driving. B. Each horse can be good at something and not all saddlebreds make good saddleseat horses. Some saddlebreds have very good hunter confromation. The saddlebred I took huntseat lessons on is an amazing mare with a nice show record but she doesn’t “look” like a saddlebred persae. What I did notice about all them was the way their neck and head is set they seemed to have more natural collection than my tbs and quarters but I am very much a novice so take the opinion as that. I don’t know how a cross would be I am assuming really amazing or really fugly depending on the horse. One thing about saddlebreds is that the good ones tend to look really firey but are actually very sweet.
Saddlebreds are built uphill, and are very well balanced and suitable for jumping, as long as they are from the bloodlines that have large bones and sturdy structures. The older 5-gaited bloodlines in particular are nice for this. Saddlebreds have great minds and LOVE their people and want to please them. We trail ride, compete in ACTHA, have worked cattle, given western lessons, and won a passle of ribbons at local fun shows in a variety of things on ours.
I love Saddlebreds for Sporthorses. They are beautiful, smart and firey. I’m not at all biased either because my mare is half-saddlebred. Check out this website: http://www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.com/
oh I also wanted to add that I give the saddlebred half 100% credit for my mare’s personality. She doesn’t have a hint of appytude. She’s so sweet.
I don’t know anything about gaited or park horses, but opened my mind about Saddlebreds because my dressage instructor competed on one until he got old and retired. I think he jumped too. I think they’re pretty and athletic looking and sure wouldn’t be disappointed if I got one for my birthday.
I went off topic, sorry. But speaking of park horses and not making any money breeding, someone around here keeps trying to sell their registered Morgans and they’ve been listed and re-listed on freakslist for months. They’re not ugly or expensive, but they’re not trained either. They’re “prospects.” That’s freakslist for “not trained.”
I rode at an eventing barn that had a saddlebred school horse once… He was pretty awesome, had one of the smoothest canters I ever rode, and if you could make him work (he was also the laziest horse in the barn) had one of the best jumps. Supposedly he was a really good hunter/jumper before eventing too. He was also the smartest horse in the barn – he could let himself out of his stall, and untie himself, and if he got loose he’d let out the other horses, but only his friends. He let out 6 horses before they caught him once.
It would really just depend on the horse himself, because neither of the breeds he’s crossed with would be a limiting factor on what he could do.
Both breeds are bred to be athletes.
In spite of their appearance in the Saddlebred shows, Saddlebreds usually have wonderful easy temperaments. they are smart, and will work to figure out what you want. They’ll work their butts off for you. (Stay away from the ones that show the whites of their eyes even when they should be relaxed. They’ve got ADD or something, and can be a real PITA to work with.)
I’m not sure the “crazy Thoroughbred” stereotype is genetic. The school horses I grew up on were mostly TBs, and were kind and gentle.
Both are very alert to their surroundings, which can lead to being spooky. You might have to work to stay ahead of them.
HTH,
Ruthie
A lady moved into our neighborhood (Central Florida) from the Midwest. She had been through a divorce and was only able to keep 3 of the approximately 65 horses that she and her former husband owned. She had no idea how much is would cost to keep horses here is Florida. It was a rude awakening. She sold one mare to me for $1000. She told me she could not keep the other mare and 5 week old foal much longer and that another neighbor wanted to buy them but kept not following through. She said that if they were still there at the end of the month they would have to go to an auction. I told her not to do that and that if she got that desperate to call me. (The horses were in excellent condition and to my surprise they all moved really well.)
She called me on a Friday and said that they were preparing to take the mare and foal to the auction the next day. I paid $2500 for them. (Seemed like a lot but we really liked the little mare. I could not care less about the fantastic Paint Horse attributes she said they had.) The mare is great and we love her. And she still moves great.
The baby was a lot of work. And expensive. But she was good natured and easy to deal with in every way. My horse novice husband did the halter breaking and I worked with her regularly to stand in cross ties, be groomed and behave for the farrier. My old Arabian gelding was her weaning buddy and a great baby sitter. When she was a yearling we gave her (along with her registration papers, which were in good order) to my dressage trainer, who had space and a buddy for her. At 4 years old, my trainer advertised her for $12,000 and got close to that, but made little to no money if you add up the expense of horse keeping, and, she definitely went in the hole too if you add in the time she could have spent riding someone else’s youngster.
All I got the satisfaction of knowing that she has a loving home (yes I keep up with her still) and did not end up in an auction.
I think that the only people who make any $ with horses are people who don’t need it.
Did anyone watch the Barrett’s Mixed TB sale this past week? 518 head were catalogued. However, only 275 head were sold, 92 were withdrawn prior to the sale, and 44 didn’t make their reserve. The scary part of the sale was that a whopping 107 horses didn’t even open. Didn’t make the $1,000 opening bid. And, those that were broodmares, were pregnant again! These were not from BYB’s, but from lovely TB farms throughout California. Would only hope that the poor results of this sale would encourage these farms to cut back on breeding anything but the very best to the very best. Someone with a good eye, and a place to let a yearling grow up, had their pick of nice horses for $1,000. Lovely looking broodmares too, just not the best producers, hence no opening bid. Sad.
It’s been even worse at the Arabian auctions: $500 opening bids & many of them don’t get an opening bid at all.
Very sad, especially when you see the quality of the actual horse AND the bloodlines behind it!
Some of the top sires in the industry… why breed when you can buy?
I made money (for awhile) on one foal I bred and sold. The buyers paid my full price for the filly when she was 2 weeks old ($2400+ was profit) BUT she coliced and died 3 days before they came to pick her up. My vet couldn’t give me any indication why she coliced, she was 6 months old and eating the same feed as my other 2 foals. I refunded the buyers money and sold my broodmares shortly after that filly died. I still miss the excitement of breeding but I don’t miss sleepless nights and the possible heartache of finding a dead baby in the pen.
Hi, here is his Pedigree, his registered name is Da’or Wels , he is a 1992 CA bred
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=1377186®istry=T&horse_name=Da'or Wels&dam_name=Floating Along&foaling_year=1992&nicking_stats_indicator=Y
my OTTB is a Seatle Slew line also and every Seatle Slew TB I have ever had was AWESOME. Cheers!
I have a related question…
Can you make money running a boarding stable? I have been considering horse property since I got my horse (and we are really tired of having neighbors). I would LOVE to have my horse at home. I have been finding some unbelievable prices on bank owned horse properties, complete with new barns, arenas, etc. A couple properties I have seen would have sold for at least 3x the price a few years ago. I am very close to downtown (where most of the jobs are), so our little suburban house and lot is valued approximately the same as these rural horse facilities (meaning I would have to endure a hideous commute).
I’m sure I am way underestimating overhead, and would need to do a LOT of research, but does anyone make money boarding? Or break even (if board covered the mortgage that would be satisfactory, I have no intention of quitting my real job)? I believe I have enough “book” knowledge to handle the business aspect of it and in my year of horse ownership have developed some pretty strong ideas regarding appropriate horse CARE (my boy is doing great), but would need to hire a trainer/instructor/barn help to assist with the more advanced hands-on horse stuff (e.g., I could NEVER give lessons or offer training myself). Plus, my OCD-related desire to have everything PERFECT (fencing, footing, hay, etc.) would probably cost a lot of extra money!
Any input would be greatly appreciated! I have my non-horsey husband half talked into this (his only concern is that he have a swimming pool). Thanks!
I say no way. Unless you walk into the property free or near free, there is no way to make a strict boarding barn cash flow. If you have 10 stalls at $300 / month that is 3000 per month. You have to buy the hay, shavings, feed and pay overhead like property taxes and insurance. Hired help? I am not so sure. Upkeep and improvements?
Don’t get me wrong, i grew up in one of those big stables as well as with a more private trainer and it was way more fun a the big barn! I learned so much just hanging out, the crusty old owner who knew everything about horses and seemingly kids too. Took us to shows, it was a great place to grow up. Sadly, all the barns are now housing developments with for sale signs all over. Sad. So romantically i say go – yes do it! But realistically I say not so fast. People today have got to have training, lessons, hauling, showing and maybe even still a paying job just to make a living.
I think horse barn cooperatives can sometimes work on a small scale or taking in one or two extra horses at your own place can help supplement the costs and the work. That is what i am doing right now – im the boarder – but its only 4 horses and the folks are novices but real nice. We all get along as well as the horses, and the riding there is fantastic.
Tell hubby, probably not a swimming pool with the stable in his future though
Yeah, this is something I would really have to research…
But the prices are freakin’ amazing right now. Mortgage on some of these would run around $1500 (and that includes taxes and basic insurance), but 15 horses could easily be boarded on some of these properties (keeping in mind that in my area a 100′ x 100′ paddock is considered spacious!).
I think what I am really underestimating is liability insurance, utilities (such as the water bill), salary for trainer/barn help, etc. And improvements to the property, of course…
But I am still very intrigued. Hubby won’t go unless the property already has a pool, or one can be put in immediately (because we just put one in two years ago because we thought we would die in this house!).
when we bought our farm, one thing I considered was, mortgage in town PLUS the cost of boarding my horse and commuting to see her… vs mortgage on our own farm and cost of upkeep of the horse.
We were able to buy a farm propery, build a house identical to what we would have had in the city, and come out about even.
But I don’t board, I have considered it but I just don’t want people coming and going from my place and all the issues it creates.
If you see boarding as just a way to help offset your horse hobby costs, you can probably do ok with it, on a small scale. Just make sure that if you buy a farm, you can afford to keep it with NO boarders. As long as the boarders are extra income and not income you have to have to survive, you should be fine.
As far as getting a trainer and/or barn help- I would not offer a trainer a salary. I’d find a decent local trainer who just needed a facility to work out of, and let them work out of your barn. If they bring a horse in for training and keep it in your barn, you will make money off board. Ditto if students board with you. For barn help- local teenagers can make great barn hands for pretty cheap- especially if you can find one who will work in exchange for board on a horse. Again, don’t bite off more than you can chew- don’t take on more horses than you can care for without help, so that if your help quits on you, you can keep things up until you find someone else.
I posted a reply, but it’s further down in the comments. I must have misclicked or something…
Nope.. No money in boarding… I’ll guarantee it. Seen to many people go under hiring help and trainers. The only people who make money at boarding facilities are the trainers who usually have little overhead, no interest in your mortgage payment or the costs of running a facility. They come and go in an instant and carry little to no (required) insurance. Believe me, this is not what you want to financially take on. Find a nice piece of property and enjoy your own horses. WAY less expense and headaches.
I could write a book on this and make a million saving people from this over and over.
The other thing to consider is the reality of people–Think of all the *drama* that happens at big boarding barns–the more personalities, the more *drama*. If you’re not cut out for that, it’ll drive you crazy!
I’m considering a small “retirement board” operation, where I wouldn’t have to deal with regular daily visits by owners–I think I might be able to deal with that, while providing a pleasant end of life for a few senior citizens of the equine world–but even then, I suspect I would just be helping pay for my girls, probably not turning a profit.
That’s a much more appealing idea. And I would not have to deal with people that don’t provide routine care for their horses, because the few retirement barns in my area are all-inclusive in that regard, meaning worming, vaccinations, farrier, etc. are included in the price.
If you’ve only owned a horse for a year, you are not qualified to be running a boarding barn and caring for other people’s horses — especially if all you’ve been doing is boarding during that time!
If you had a really good manager, MAYBE, but even then, you couldn’t possibly have the knowledge to be certain your manager was doing a good job at this point. You need many more years of horse ownership under your belt.
Don’t worry, we are probably a few years away from this idea anyways (hubby is yet on board with this idea)…
And one year ago, I would have completely agreed with you. But after boarding for a year, and looking at a LOT of facilities in my area (even some of the so-called nicer ones), I am certain I could do a better job and provide better care than a lot of these places.
In my endless search for the perfect board at a REASONABLE (not cheap) price, I have seen barbed wire, uncapped t-posts, “self-care” horses with slippers for hooves, moldy hay, weed-infested hay, dry lots with NO shade (it’s well over 100 degrees here in the summer), mud 12″ deep, black scummy water buckets, urine soaked stalls, un-catchable lesson horses, un-composted manure used for mud control (yeah, I’m sure that works great!), horses with back shoes turned out together, smoking in the barn, horses with stocked up legs from no turnout, barns with no vaccination requirements, tiny paddocks, Parelli whackjobs, no fire extinguishers, etc. Seriously, it’s frightening the way a lot of horses are kept.
Part of the problem in my area is that the nicer barns often only offer stall boarding, and I am unwilling to stall my horse (personal choice, I know). There seems to be a great divide between stall boarding at $600 per month, and pasture boarding at $150 with a lot of the above mentioned problems. I have great visions of a happy medium!
I realize there is no perfect boarding situation, I just moved my gelding to a new barn with a smaller paddock in exchange for a more experienced BO, but I look at some of these things and I just think WTF?
And you know what’s amazing about all this? Horse owners put up with it – they could care less. I’d hazard a guess that 95+% of barns run this way. Slapping a few plastic caps on T-Posts would be considered a major upgrade.
I’m always shocked to see the filth many of these $30,000+ horses live in and owners don’t notice. The stench of urine, rotting water with bobbing horse apples during a hot week should catch anyone’s sense of smell. Truly amazing. They’ll spend $4000 on a saddle but won’t buy a $4 scrub brush.
In my endless search for the perfect board at a REASONABLE (not cheap) price, I have seen barbed wire, uncapped t-posts, “self-care†horses with slippers for hooves, moldy hay, weed-infested hay, dry lots with NO shade (it’s well over 100 degrees here in the summer), mud 12″ deep, black scummy water buckets, urine soaked stalls, un-catchable lesson horses, un-composted manure used for mud control (yeah, I’m sure that works great!), horses with back shoes turned out together, smoking in the barn, horses with stocked up legs from no turnout, barns with no vaccination requirements, tiny paddocks, Parelli whackjobs, no fire extinguishers, etc. Seriously, it’s frightening the way a lot of horses are kept.
I have to admit I grew up planning on breeding horses. At the time Adalusians were just getting big in north america, and I was in love with them. But as I got older I started rescuing dogs, cats and smaller animals. When the territory finally had a humane society shelter built I switched to horses.
My first horse was a mare that had been labeled as ‘Mean’ she apparently had kicked one of the owners and cracked a rib. They had an offer from the dog kennel down the road that wanted her for meat. but because she was pregnant they wanted to find another way. Luckly they came into the feed store where I was working and asked if I knew anyone who might be willing and able to work with her.
After about an hour talking I said I would look at her and would lease her for a month to see if I could do anything with her. As it turned out it was a case of first time/ignorant owners where were afraid of her and the mare had them pegged from day one.
Anyway she had a filly who I had until she was 8 then sold to an old family friend. I have had two more colts from her, one I sold as a five year old because I had rescued too many horses and couldn’t keep them all any more. The other went to my friend who owns his sire for breeding fees.
I have had four other foals born on my place to date and of those ones they are all going to be kept for family horses. their sires are from our local wild herds and are amazing mountian horses.
Any way I sure have never made any money at it. I did stand my current stud to one mare last summer, and for a fleeting moment I thought of standing him. The area we are in cares less about bloodlines then they do about wheather they can pack a moose out of the bush without killing themselves or the handleers.
But then I heard some reports of the prices of horses at the auctions south of us and I have decided to geld all my boys. Because there is no way I can breed anything and keep it to riding age for $500.
So now the plan is to buy auction horses heading for the meat yard, train them and see what happens. Lord willing in the mean time I can educate others about the over population we are haveing. My nieghborhood riding instructor said she found out that the man who shippes her hay up from down south breeds 30 foals a year, of those 30 he only sells about 6, the rest he takes straight to the slaughter house. (we are in canada)
That made me sick, there has to be some way to stop that kind of thing.
Used to think it’d be fun to breed horses, ran into broodmare from hell. Changed my mind real quick. Yeah you might get a foal with a cheap mare, or you might get a dead mare and a dead foal, even doing it right there’s no guarantees.
There IS money in it… like being a landlord or any other not-fun job that people will pay for. Are you ready for the emotional costs? Would you enjoy being a landlord and would you be a good at it considering your OCD habits? Do you like people who are not your friends in your space? Will it bother you to evict people who don’t care for their horses, follow the rules, or who are wacko and disruptive, or will it bother you to evict the nice ones you really like who don’t pay? I’ve said all this not because I board horses–I don’t– but because I’ve done a rundown on the costs/benefits myself, and the only way I can get it to pay for itself on paper is with a rather large operation that supports peripheral services including trailer parking, storage and having a full-time trainer to attract tenants, and having a mortgage that it not too large. I am also interested in this and can’t wait to see what the responses are from people who do it for a living.
I doubt I would be thrilled with people in my space. I was actually thinking about that earlier. The residence would need to be separated to some extent from the barn/arenas, etc.
I would have NO problem evicting people that did not take care of their horse. I am amazed what BOs allow in that regard (overgrown hooves, obvious need for worming, etc.). I have NO tolerance for whackos (which could be a problem right there!).
And yes, a trainer would be an absolute necessity. A lot of people that can afford horses (myself included), absolutely require riding lessons and a support system. Finding a trainer would be another tricky issue…
I definitely hope to hear from more people with experience in this!
Whoops! I was replying to newhorsemommy about boarding, not breeding.
No, we don’t make money. We had about ten-fifteen mares of breeding age (sold several), but only breed about four-five a year. All of our foals are AMHR Futurity Nominated. We only bred three this year, two to the stallion mentioned below (his first crop) and one mare, who is the dam to Elvis, to a son of Elvis’s sire, who is a multi National Top Ten driving horse in his own right!!
Last year (2009) my partner campaigned her stallion Elvis and he was AOTE SR Stallion of the year, and was second in Amateur in his height division. Plus we did both Nationals and Worlds. Did the Area shows for both registries. All that ran into big $$$. But because we don’t have that “Big Farm Name” attached to our horses we don’t get the big bucks. Not to mention you find Minis on Craigslist for $100-300 all the time. People don’t want to pay the amount we ask. So, we breed for ourselves first. If the foal sells, great, if not, that’s OK, too. S/he will stay with us. He will get gelded. When they are old enough, we teach them to drive. They go to shows and parades, and sooner or later someone will want them! Four out of the five foals born last year to us have been/will be shown. The only colt of the bunch is pet quality and has a pet home. We actually have a show this weekend (Fort Worth Stock Show) and thus the show season begins again! Cha-ching!
I got to tell you that i was looking at big MINI farms thinking they would be “johnny on the spot ” with up to date info on horses for sale… NO way, I found the smaller farms were much better at providing the photos and info on the horses. It came down to 2 horses for me , one that was a halter reserve champion 2 or 3 times , mare, and one was a gelding with 4 H expierence and a loving home. I was more then willing to spend the money on the mare, but the owner was not motivated to answer my question ” her last show was in 2006, what has she been doing for the last 4 years” ? I dont think thats unreasonable… how about current photos? If your selling a horse you better have a new photo taken every month. I find the sellers to be extreamly unmotivated and unorganized. Maybe your different , but I sure couldnt find a big farm to take my money, so i will give it to the little farm, I have a list of people here in Europe that are going through the same ordeal, at least I speak English , can you imaging how hard it is for them. The Big farms usually have web pages that list pedigrees , show dates, current photos, and prices…thats a motivated sell… no price , ? not interested, no photo , not interested. When your looking at 50 horses a day , you need to be able to print out a photo and write the horses info on the photo with ranch name and contact number…if you have to wait a week for a photo and price , you can forget it.
Breeding as a business is profitable if:
1. You are able to create the facilities needed to show off your animals, without paying full price. In other words, if you build that million dollar showplace, kiss your profit goodbye. It needs to be a NICE barn with NICE fencing, without the high price tag. High tensil and electric fence just don’t cut it with mare owners.
2. You are a businessperson, AND a horseman. You must know how to run a business, and specifically you must know the ins and outs of the horse world. What corners can you cut and not be ‘cheap’? What aspects of the business can you do yourself? What type of stallion/mare is popular right now? You might like to think your stallion is quality, and therefore people will breed to him– not so. People breed to a dream, not a horse. Better make sure your style of horse is what they are dreaming about.
3. You value what you are doing. People keep saying, “Oh, you can only make money if you are already rich.” I don’t agree– you can make plenty of money, but only if you enjoy working on your own tractor, building your own stalls and fences, giving shots (and possibly even flushes and ultrasounds) yourself. If you choose to sit back and pay someone else to do the work you could do yourself, you are no longer running a business– you are enjoying a hobby.
4. Most importantly, you LEARN. Good breeders, trainers, and boarding stable owners all have one thing in common. What they knew last year is not good enough. What they did last year is not good enough. They seek new information, and they try constantly to both cut costs and improve quality.
In the end, I’m not convinced that just anyone can get rich breeding or dealing with horses. I do believe it’s possible for a select few, and I also believe that the horse industry will support good horsemen, even in today’s depressed economy. We just tend to have this vision of being unable to make money in horses, because so few of us have the needed abilities I listed above. That doesn’t make us losers, or bad horse owners. It just means that instead of being the ones gaining money in the industry, we are the ones who are here for a hobby– we help support the horse businesses around us.
“Most importantly, you LEARN. Good breeders, trainers, and boarding stable owners all have one thing in common. What they knew last year is not good enough. What they did last year is not good enough. They seek new information, and they try constantly to both cut costs and improve quality.”
This paragraph describes the necessary attitude and behavior for any personal of professional success. Even more important to pay attention to this when other innocent lives (horses, dogs, children) depend on you.
I don’t breed anything I own. But I did buy back a mare I sold that was bred by the people that owned her. I bought her back for the same price that I sold her, so that tells me enough about profit from breeding.
The only person I know thate breeds is an eye doctor. She obviously has money to raise her horses, and they show it by their condition. She has 2 babies in the spring out of the 15-20 she has. All of her horses have show records if they are old enough to show. She will not sell unless they are old enough to start training. By that time they are trained on the ground at least. Does she make money? Probably not. She does do it because she has a line that has been successful and would like to see the line progress.
I have two friends, Jan and Marj, who each own boarding barns. They board about 2 dozen horses each. Some tips I’ve heard from them:
Are there a decent number of horse-owners in your area? My area has decent demand for boarding facilities, but keep in mind that it would take you a few months at least to get enough clients to fill your barn.
If you’re going to house more than a few horses, you NEED at least one full-time employee! It takes a lot of time to feed and muck for that many horses. Plus it’s nice to have someone around while you’re at work to deal with any emergencies that arise and to keep an eye on the clients when they visit their horses.
It really really helps if you are able to grow your own hay. But don’t count the hay acerage as grazing acerage! You can’t bale it if the horses already grazed it
Don’t forget to think about property taxes and income taxes when deciding whether or not you can afford the costs!
Try to work out a deal with a lessons instructor and/or horse trainer. Your boarder can bring clientele to her, and her services will make your facility more attractive than a stable with no instructor. It’s a win-win for both of you!
Jan works full time while her husband and the hired-hand handle things at the barn during the day. They make as much as a regular two-income family would. Marj and her husband both work at the barn full-time and they both train and teach lessons. They rely on lessons heavily for income, but they make enough to support their family of 4 and their 10-horse herd!
I had this same conversation with a friend from the UK recently, and we agreed. I made my usual statement: “It’s easy to make a small fortune in the horse business; you just have to start with a LARGE fortune.”
And she said, more succinctly and with utter truth: “The fool breeds for the wise to buy.”
I think the biggest exception to this is people that breed to OUTSIDE mares, but not their own. Stud fees without the mare and foal expenses! Now, I’m not advocating selling a breeding to anyone who shows up with cash. But a friend of mine is a great example. She stands a imported German Warmblood (RPSI) stallion – he hasn’t been shown yet, but is definitely a high quality horse. She has bred a few of her mares to him, but only one or two a year (no babies in 2009, one in 2010). She only breeds when one of the older foals sells and therefore makes room for the new baby, and will keep any foal indefinitely. These foals sell for $7000-10,000, and I would guess she about breaks even on them depending on the age they sell at. She also stands him to a few select outside mares, which according to her is enough to pay for his feed that year. By no means is it a living, but when both him and his progeny have show records she will be able to book more mares.
She obviously isn’t making any profit if she has owned the stud for 3 years now and she can’t afford to show him. Why she is breeding a horse in this market with no show record baffles me?
My favorite quote regarding horse businesses is this:
How do you make a million dollars in the horse industry? Start with 10 million.
BA-DOOM-BOOM! CHISH!
Unless you are the owner of a huge tack store chain or the owner of Clinton Anderson/Pat Parelli/insert BNT here or the owner of some amazing horse training product/training system/etc., you will not make money in the horse business. Simple as that. These are animals, and they’re animals that have high expenses for feeding and care and only produce one animal at a time. It’s not like a dog where you have simple and relatively inexpensive care and the thing produces 10 puppies at a time. I know a woman who pays her mortgage by selling two or three litters of $2500 Doberman pinscher puppies each year. She switched to breeding dogs from horses because she was losing money hand over fist. Now their mortgage is always paid for and they can spend any other money the get on the bills and splurges. Did I mention how her dog business bought her a $50K Harley Davidson? IN CASH?
Now, you CAN do the short route, which is go and buy tons of green broke geldings at auction, clean them up, ride them a few times so you “know” the horse, and sell them in a few weeks during peak buying season at quadruple the price to unsuspecting/beginning/stupid buyers. But all that does is make you some big bucks for a few years until your reputation goes down the toilet for selling said buyers rank horses that aren’t worth nearly what they paid for them. Or you can go into the overbreeding system like the TWH and racehorse worlds do. Have 40+ acres where the mares are always on pasture and you have a natural pond for drinking. Vaccs once a year, but no need for deworming or trimming feet because their bodies will deal with it “naturally.” Then you ride the foals at 14 months to determine if they’re the makings of a show/race/whatever horse, then dump the duds at the nearest auction.
Honestly, I guess my overall thought is that most people who make money at thee horse business are usually dishonest or have something that’s too far beyond my own comprehension to be able to compete with. So I’ll stick with my work being to help educate people about TWHs and the soring problem, give lessons at cost here and there, and to enjoy my horses for what they are.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Li_GcvWeEKAJ:ptlstables.com/pdf/slew_pedigree.pdf+%22slew+the+bride%22+foals&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbQfb-C8bfc_9IlOcPCf8NsZkutYIQ
Has some data on a half sibling.
I recall Slew the Bride, he was a good son of Slew…
More data on the sire is here:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TfA0by3zYjsJ:www.barretts.com/catalog/CATMAY00/pdf/343.pdf+%22slew+the+bride%22+foals&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbQ8LYLpaJDTgkrN8O2o-U5cKrQlaA
The mare, not so much….
To Floridafarmom:
“snag some suitable greenies to re-train and sell if they must sell horses. Don’t they realize that it is so much easier to start with an animal you can begin breaking immediately? Leave the breeding to those who have money to burn or real professionals (meaning they actually make a living from their work vice they own a few DVDs from some gimmick trainer).”
No, they don’t realize.
I think the problem is the people who breed because they there’s no law against it. If it’s a g_d given right, then it can’t be wrong.
(Until they really, really, really run out of feed.)
These people live in their own private, fantasy bubble. Perhaps where unregistered black Arabs can win races against thoroughbreds, and palomino paint ponies rule the world.
And nothing you can say will make a difference.
I have one mare – a Straight Egyptian Arabian mare named Majik who has been a dream come true after many years of working as a groom and trainer, alongside my actual career in mental health. I bought her as a long yearling as a sporthorse/hunter/endurance prospect with the hope that she would grow into a top-quality mare well worth breeding. Well, the folks who sold her to me made me an offer 2 yrs ago (long before I could afford a stud fee, more or less a third horse) to lease her in exchange for all mare care, general care, farrier care, show costs for a show in Kentucky, and I could keep her and ride her until she was about 6 wks to due date. In the savings of normal board and care costs alone, I definitely made a “profit” over what I would have paid. She also broke her maiden at the age of 5, so I could show she was healthy in all reproductive aspects. But her baby is beyond amazing. We all hope for a filly in this side of the breeding business, but a phenomenal colt is priceless. That’s the category he has been placed in at this point by the owners. He’s not for sale as they may actually keep him for stud after showing him. Granted, he is just a yearling and has lots of growing to do. The Sire, Al Adeed Al Shaqab, had a stud fee of $10,000.00 – and they spent quite a bit out of pocket on the lease for Majik. But they were so amazed at how she had turned out that they were willing to roll the dice and spend more on an unborn foal than I spent to purchase Majik outright.
I have left her open for this season and next season. Its time to achieve more than halter points, and she is amazing under saddle. I don’t plan to breed her for myself in this economy as I have no wiggle room on expenses with a special needs older gelding. I have had some inquiries about embryo transfer options to which I am open – but only with an excellent stallion so that Majik produces the best she can in that capacity. I also have first refusal option on her yearling colt if he is to be sold or if anything happens to him that would require a home with no strings attached.
So my first personal breeding endeavor definitely turned a profit. I also had 20 yrs of education specifically geared toward Arabians as a breed and successfully showing them, and memorizing pedigrees and pedigrees that cross well for many years before I owned a mare of breeding quality.
“So my first personal breeding endeavor definitely turned a profit. I also had 20 yrs of education specifically geared toward Arabians as a breed and successfully showing them, and memorizing pedigrees and pedigrees that cross well for many years before I owned a mare of breeding quality.”
There you go. If people waited til they were at that level before breeding, we wouldn’t have an unwanted horse problem at all. It would not exist.
I am in the process of purchasing a horse , so perfect topic for me. I have a budget,( not small I might add ,I have no children to waste money on ) and started looking in Europe for a miniature horse for halter and showmanship classes, I decided NOT to breed my mare,I dont breed. I contacted many breeders via e-mail , asking for recent photos…. no one had a recent photo available , no one could come up with a video either, no one could give me a direct “he has done this ..he has done that,.. here is his pedigree, and show dated completed” So I decided to look in the US, same thing, no decent photos or current photos, we are talking a 6 year old horse with photos from when horse was 2…a lot happens in 4 years especially when a horse is now a brood mare,(but advertized as a SHOW halter horse (when said horse was 2). I ended up buying the horse with the responsible owner, it was a lot less money , but I was willing to spend the big bucks if the BREEDERS would have gotten off their arce and snaped some photos , or at least written me a few blurbs on the history of the horse. Breeders whats the big mystery on your horse that YOU want to sell ?? I sent photos of my horses , my living conditions , the stall , the pastures, and refrences…and a week later I get an e-mail from a breeder saying if I want more info on the horse to ask another breeder? Not only do i despise breeders, but now I realize most of them are lazy, unmotivated, sellers , that know very little about the horse they are selling. I am not talking about 1 or 2 breeders ..I am talking about multiple breeders asking 4 to 12 grand for a horse .What is this about? Even when there is money to be made, you have a buyer with checkbook in hand you still canrt sell a flippen horse..
What you saw is something I’ve bitched about a lot: Not running your horse BUSINESS like a BUSINESS!
i.e.
CLEAN UP your merchandise.
KNOW all about it and what its selling points are.
BALANCE your business checkbook and don’t steal from your personal one to support it.
CUSTOMER SERVICE – respond promptly to calls and emails politely and be knowledgeable and ready to answer any anticipated question.
BE REASONABLE with your expectations about pricing and do MARKET RESEARCH to know what is going to sell and how much it is going to sell for.
Do even 75% of people in the horse biz do this stuff? No. I don’t think it’s even 75%. The horse biz is full of emotional idiocy. It’s not worth $50K because you loooove it or someone TOLD you black straight Egyptians were rare. And even if YOU think western pleasure is ugly, it’s a fact that a well trained, ready to show WP horse is going to sell for a lot more than your Parelli level 346 horse. The horse biz is full of people saying “I know what I like and I’m going to make more of it and YOU OUGHT to pay me a lot of money for it because I think it’s great.” That would not work in any other business, and it doesn’t work in this one. You have to make something your customers want, and you have to do research and discover what that is, and many horsepeople don’t want to know. They want to stomp their foot and say, well, the customer is wrong, I can do better. Yeah, how’s that work for you?
Actually, the “clueless” gene resides on both sides of the equation. I’ve taken out classified ads (not for horses, but for other items) and had people call and make an appointment. They don’t show and they don’t call. I’ve called sellers about their items, made appointments to see what they had for sale and had them stand me up, too. Or I’ve gone to look and the item has NOT been as described (think horses and the “17hh” advertised that wouldn’t make 15 and change IRL).
After awhile everyone gets gunshy.
However, Fugs is right — running a business means running a BUSINESS with everything clean and neat, organized, good customer service, etc. I am hoping I can visit the farm where Papa Clem will be standing — I’ll be in Central California in May scribing for a lady from New Jersey who is taking her ‘r’ judge’s test at a show in Elk Grove.
The Farm’s Web site looks wonderful, and when I know what my scribe schedule is, I’ll see if they permit visitors who are not interested in breeding to him — I’ll just be an equine lookie loo ;o). However, if I’m able to make that appointment, I certainly will NOT just “not show up.” And if there is a delay, I will absolutely call to let them know. “Customer service” works both ways in IRL, too.
Amen!
You are right…there would be a lot more money to make if the idiot breeders would learn how to sell their merchandise..Still waiting for photos, waiting for a call and quote from 2 international shippers, I have 2 checks in my hand , one for the breeder , one for the shipper. just waiting , and waiting , and waiting … In 2 more days they can kiss the sale good bye. What confuses me about the whole thing is the mulitpal listings “desparate to sell ” “yea , hows that?” Desparate to sell but too lazy to collect the money? I keep my memory bank full of photos of my horses you want a shot from behind, I got it , from side , got it , front , walking , running, laying down, standing square , fur , no fur…whats wrong with these people??? I think one word sums it up for all sellers LAZY Sadly I think the percentage is more like 90% then 75% . Is there anyone out there that WANTS to sell a correct 32 inch and under miniature horse ? If so , and you know something about your horse let me know. This is the reason horses go to auction , and from there to slaughter, I dont buy the ” I tried and tried to sell my horse , but there were no takers” line anymore. More like you finally got off your a** and drove your horse to the auction because you were tired of spending money on hay. Or too lazy to clean the horses s**t.
I agree, buying a horse is getting harder and harder – and seller’s are getting wierder and wierder, as in they don’t actually WANT to sell the horse! So they just jerk you around and waste your time.
I’ve had my eye on a certain farm’s website for YEARS – and I swear if I’m ever in the market for a TWH again I’ll give them a ring. It is http://www.eveningshadefarm.com. They do a very good job of keeping their website updated, showing great pictures of their horses for sale, with histories and training details, etc. Just trail horses mostly, no show records – but I think a LOT of other people who are trying to sell horses could take lessons from this website. It’s the best I’ve seen!
Shameful dumping of horse on craig’s list:
http://ames.craigslist.org/grd/1575224157.html
No indication of bloodlines, nothing to add value to make her attractive to a prospective new home, but plenty of money was spent on the mare when she was cranking out babies.
Aborted due to illness, respiratory problem…. Sounds to me like someone did not keep up with their Rhino boosters foe months 5, 7, 9.
What a wreck of a horse. What is she, 16 hands at the croup an 14 hands at the wither? She’s been cranking out foals with that hideous conformation?
She hasn’t been ridden since she was two but because she was OK being ponied with a saddle on last year she’d make a good kid’s horse? And the clincher is she has a permanent tracheotomy? Yeah, big market for a horse with one of those. What are these people smokin?
OT
Some freaky photos of people riding horses through bonfires: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/fiery_european_festivals.html
Scroll down to pic #20. WTF??? Do they wet them first or just not give a fuck?
In honor of the patron saint of animals.
I’m thinking St. Anthony would prefer not to be looking over 3rd degree sheath burns.
O.o
I read somewhere that riding a horse through fire would purify it. I bet there were a lot of horses that weren’t purified…
Not that it makes it any better, but the horses are completely soaking wet from head to toe. If you notice, each animal is dripping with water. I’m sure they never catch “fire” and since it’s only a fraction of a second, they shouldn’t suffer from smoke inhalation either. At least, on the bright side… if there’s ever a barn fire, the horses won’t have fear to get out of it safely.
I was wondering how people find out previous owners on TB’s. We have figured out who the seized TB is that I have in foster care, but we were wondering how do you find out any information on previous owners. He is a gelding, and if I understand correctly, his papers will be voided so that the name can be re-used. His name is O Paddy Boy, Tattoo G39354 applied at Calder Race Course in Florida. He is a grand son of Danzig. Sire, Dove Hunt. His Dam, Katies Joy, doesn’t appear on any registries that I can find. He raced at Calder 6 times in 2005 (all claiming races). Could some one help with how to find the previous owner/s
As I understand it, TB papers are transferred from person to person at the time of sale, not send to The Jockey Club to be officially entered so there is a list of owners as in AQHA registration and transfer of ownership. I would love to have my horse’s papers, but unless they are still in the archival records of the last place he raced, I would have to apply for duplicates. He’s old enough now (and a gelding) that the copy of his papers would just be for me (a souvenir ;o) since he’s not going to race and cannot, of course, reproduce.
I would also LOVE to get a copy of his first win photo — I know the date and place of his first win and his jockey (Chris McCarron ;o), and I suppose there is are archives at the track. I just haven’t pursued that, either.
Keeping the papers back on a TB can be seen as a kindness, preventing the injured and burnt out from ever setting foot on a legitimate track to race ever again.
However, as for who owned him, contact his breeder, find out where and to whom he sold (a copy of the sale records, perhaps?) and trace from there. I know everyone who owned my horse except for who got him off the track and reschooled him, then sold him to whoever then sold him to the dealer I got him from.
TBdancer, but how did you even locate the breeder. The only TB that I have whom I know all about is Etesian Echo who is my 27 year old, I have her papers. Where do you go to find the breeder of a TB. Will the jockey club give information if you are a member. I am not a member as I basically have a retirement home for two TB’s, a rescued TB and a rescued pony.
newhorsemommy: imho, no, a person who has only owned horses for one year is not knowledgable nor experienced enough to be taking care of other people’s horses. i have owned and operated a small retirement boarding facility since 1986; i have been riding horses since 1958 and owning since 1968. That is 53 years of experience, and I still learn something new everyday regarding my beloved horses. operating a boarding facility of any type is extremely labor intensive. the commitment is remarkable. the return on investment is, at best, chancey.
again imho, i would be hesitant to even encourage you to think about keeping your own horses at home until you have a few more years of ownership under your belt, and only then if you have been mentored by a serious and capable horseman.
I concur that I would need to learn more to care for other people’s horses, but I am certain I could care for my own at home! Before I even got my first horse, I bought (and I am not exaggerating), something like 25 books on horse care, and read them cover to cover! And I do learn something new every day!
My current boarding situation provides physical space for my horse, hay, riding facilities, and the owners live on the property. Other than that, I take care of everything. I am on the self-clean option because nobody else cleans to my satisfaction (plus, I can inspect the quality and quantity of his manure if I clean), I provide my own shavings, I feed my own supplements (because I don’t trust anyone else to do it), I schedule my own farrier visits, I worm him (on a rotation I devised and my vet approved), I schedule my own vet appointments, including vaccinations because I prefer to pay the barn call fee and have my vet (who is familiar with my horse) see him rather than line him up for the vaccination clinic.
I have a lot of friends with horses, which is how I ended up with my semi-rescue gelding in the first place (word of mouth about a horse in a bad situation). He was wormy, covered in scurf, had thrush in all four feet, and had been pretty much ignored for 6 months when I got him (although he had been fed so was not underweight). His teeth were overdue for floating and his sheath was so filthy my vet thought he was probably having trouble urinating. Now, he is in fantastic shape, and my vet marvels every time she sees him! His coat is not even the same color as when I got him (he went from a very bright red chestnut to a liver chestnut). I just had a CBC and chemistry done to compare to the baseline we ran when I got him, and even that showed remarkable improvement! I paid for training, exercise him or ride him regularly (although I do have some fear issues related to riding), and I visit him and groom him daily!
My only hesitation about keeping him at home is that nobody would be there while me and my husband are at work. That is a definite advantage to boarding (I will only board where someone is on-site 24 hours per day). And I would never bring him home until my fantasy horse property was set-up to my satisfaction, including a riding arena!
And I do like to brag about the difference I have made with this horse. There is definitely some ego involved. For my first horse, with pretty much zero horse experience prior to getting him, I am pretty damn pleased with how he has turned out. People that see the “before” pictures can’t even believe it’s the same horse! And he is a forever horse, I do not take on animals that I will not keep forever. I have a satanic cat here that actually attacked my face once (I had to go to the Dr. and everything). She is still here and apparently immortal.
Sorry for the long response, I tend to really babble when it concerns my horse!
Wow, she turned down $65,000 at one point for Hercules, but it was (pick one) too much trouble/too expensive/worth the kill price not to euthanize him? This story gets creepier and creepier. Wendy Jones Hsue is just pathological, in a scary way. No way would I want to be associated with her, and certainly not have any business dealings with her.
Sorry for the OT post, but I thought other atheists interested in animal rescue would find this site intriguing:
http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/
Enterprising……. and I can see them making money with this–particularly with vulnerable elderly (anyone know if this type of arrangement qualifies as a scam?) .
A brilliant aspect of their business plan is there will be no need for a consumer complaints department.
Exactly, but it’s not a very big scam, not enough to deprive the heirs.
Slew the Bride daughter free posted on thehorse.com mid-2009:
http://www.thehorse.com/Horses/View.aspx?adID=255
SEATTLE SLEW GRANDDAUGHER
Horse Name: Motherofthebrides
Price: FREE
Breed: Thoroughbred
Gender: Mare
Color: Dark Bay/Brown
Height: 16 hh
Weight:
Foaled: 05/31/1988
Temperament: 3
(1 = calm, 10 = high-spirited)
Sire Name: slew the bride
Dam Name: miyeko
City: oceanside
State: CA
Email: vfmvms@cox.net
Phone: 7609676627
Status: Available
Description: looks like the great Seattle Slew
I just found an artical on the net, (but i forgot to write down where it was and I can’t seem to find it again. Although I did save a copy) That states that many breed associations, escesially TB and QH give their breeders ‘breeding incentives’ over $19 million I believe last year in the TB world, which was raised from racing taxes or something.
And the AQHA is apparently trying to help get slaughter houses opened up again in the US. Because thats the biggest market for their horses. Oh and the AQHA just celebrated their 7 millionth foal.
So why are we supporting breeders that take incentives to breed, even though they have no market for the previous years foal crop? How can we help change the minds of people who see horses as nothing more then meat on the hoof, and only the ‘champions’ are worth a little of their time.
I’m not sure, any idea’s?
OT but this was in our local newspaper today:
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100130/NEWS16/100139977
Not sure if that worked but a county east of here just rescued 31 horses from someone who wasn’t feeding them. There were 37 horses total but 6 died from starvation. That poor horse in the picture looks like our new mare who we rescued from starvation.
Here’s one of the ugliest horses I’ve seen…maybe it’s the angle of the camera. The poor thing is “14.5″ hands! It’s been on Craigslist for awhile.
One ugly horse
Does anyone have more information on the 30 Arabians rescued in Ohio yesterday? There’s some stuff floating around now, but I was wondering if anyone has heard anything else. Well bred horses, some dead on the property, and some had to be euthanized…
Problems with boarding horses:
1. Boarders that steal from other boarders, or from you.
2. Boarders who make trouble with other boarders, or with you, because they love the drama.
3. Boarders who don’t want to ‘go with the flow’ of how you want horses cared for.
4. Boarders who stop paying and leave with a horse you can’t sell legally, but which requires feed.. and if you do get the courts to grant the right to sell the horse — good luck finding a buyer!
I no longer board — but when I did, I was fortunate to find some decent ‘self-care’, rent-a-pasture places. One place, though, took on second client who wanted her mare to be THE favorite, and who turned out to be quite high-maintenance… but that’s not why I left. After a time, the PO’s ‘idiosyncracies’ began to show through — many of them having to do with massive amounts of Xanax being consumed. I like to think, though, that I was a good boarder in the several places my horses stayed over a couple of years (one ended up being sold.. another was the Crazy Lady, mentioned above) Still — I was a boarder long enough to see just why few people are willing to take on boarders!
There was this oldtimer TB trainer who boarded this stallion where I boarded my mare:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/native+root Pretty stallion, nice bloodlines, never did a damn thing the whole time he lived in that barn except get ponied around a little homemade dirt track – from a pickup truck. That stallion was a SWEETHEART.
I don’t think he was the owner – I think a local car dealer was. But he kept trying to get me to breed my QH hunter mare to him. Actually I think they would’ve made a pretty Appendix baby, but my father the ex-farmer and other wiser heads prevailed. All it took was a laundry list of risks, responsibilities, and costs.
I hate:
- the mentality that if it has a uterus, it must be pregnant.
- “popular” bloodlines that don’t mean a damn thing performance-wise, but command top dollar because the stallion’s owner is a marketing genius.
You know, I wonder how much it costs to run a full-page ad in the QH Journal? On top of graphic design fees? Esp. one of those nutty ads where the horse is floating in space or under the sea…. Don’t forget, the $$$$ spent on Web design. Logo design. Add that to the cost of campaigning, esp. when you have one of those $250K horse trailers.
My dad’s cousin breeds & shows World-caliber Appaloosas. His wife is president (I think) of their regional ApHA org. And y’know what? His place is small. NOT fancy. Kind of run-down, but comfy.
He drives a FedEx truck. His wife is a schoolteacher who also sews FANCY Western show clothes on the side. THAT is how they make their money…
In Australia, it takes about $15,000-$20,000 to get a thoroughbred yearling to a sale, if you’re breeding racehorses. That’s if you’re outsourcing a lot of the work. Then add the stallion’s stud fee which can be anything. If you’re doing most of the work yourself, then you’ll be spending fewer dollars, but you have to add in the opportunity cost i.e. what your time cost and how much money you could have made with it otherwise. Plus you should add mare depreciation.
If you’re doing it as a business, not a lot of people are making a profit on this formula.
I make money with my breeding program standing my (gasp) homozygous stallion. I have 2 of my own broodmares, the rest bred are outside mares. In 2009, I sold both of my foals PRIOR to weaning for $1,500 each. $3,000 in my pocket pays for the feed for my 7 head of horses, 2 miniatures, and 3 goats for an entire year. I made an additional $7,000 in stud fees. I guess my costs may be lower than others….teeth floats aren’t too expensive, wormer $2.99 from horse.com, a husband who can trim or shoe at lower cost (we must buy shoes, rasps, hoof knives, grinder blades, nails, etc.) After ALL costs in 2009, except for show entry fees for my personal horse, I still turned a profit….My stallion has performance bloodlines, but (gasp again) has not been shown himself due to an injury. He is no longer rideable. Could I have gelded him? I guess, and he’d have been my own personal money pit for the rest of his life. My broodmares again have performance bloodlines, but no show records. They have, however, produced performers and I nominate their foals to the BT. It is possible to make money and find your foals good homes where they go on to perform or be used. If I didn’t sell the foals? I’d keep them. Still have them at 2 or 3? Start them. Still ahve them at 4 or 5? Show them. Still have then at 7 or 8? Maybe my kids can start showing them. My max capacity is about 12 head. If I get to that point, I’ll leave my mares open. They do their job for me, and I’ll keep them till they die if they are producing foals for me or not. They are part of my family, as all of my horses are. If I ever recognize a foal from my stud going through a sale ring, I’ll buy it and bring it home. I am aware of my moral responsibilities when bringing horses into this world. Some people say that I should take care of horses that are already here with the time, money, and effort I expend. Go pick up a few from the sale barn, let them live out there days. Sounds noble, but it is my time, my money, and my choice and I choose to breed horses, but I also choose to be responsible for the horses I helped put here.
this one cant end well
http://huntington.craigslist.org/grd/1574583500.html
Off topic, but yet another reason to not to breed or own horses tha can not be fed due to financial issues. In Ottawa County, Ohio, 31 horses rescued, 6 dead. Very sad situation. Will post ways to help as soon as I obtain more information.
Well, here is a prime example from Craigslist that there is money in breeding horses. Whole whopping $2000!
Direct link:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w74/penka78/TBad.jpg
Attempt to show the screen shot:
Pic didn’t post: 9 TBs for $2000. An OTTB stallion, 4 mares bred by him, two weanlings by him, a 3y.o. OTTB filly and a 6 y.o. OTTB gelding.
If my math is right, that’s actually 13, not 9 horses.
A slightly different take on the topic, but….
I bought a yearling horse for open NCHA competition in ’08. It was a pricey yearling, given that it was private treaty (God knows one probably could have gambled on an auction price but the good ones usually do not sel for bargain prices), but I agreed to the asking price without batting an eyelash. I did this precisely because I knew the breeders were really not making any profit except perhaps recouping part of the going stud fee for their stallion.
I knew this because I knew the value of the dam (her purchase and maintenance) the cost of all the health care provided for that dam from breeding through gestation and foaling (the best of the best). I was given complete records (detailed computer print outs) on the foal from birth through the day she left their ranch. I was given serial pictures of her throughout the same period. I was treated very well, and although that perhaps is not costly, raising foals and doing everything right is very costly.
I didn’t gamble and I didn’t deal, because I’d rather support breeders like this than anyone else. If I could run things all horses would be raised this way! Do your homework and support good horsemen (and rescue whatever else you can).
OT: starved horses in northern Ohio (craigslist ad with link to article in “Toledo Blade” newspaper
http://limaohio.craigslist.org/grd/1578888032.html
PLEASE HELP THESE STARVING HORSES! (Fremont Ohio)
Date: 2010-01-31, 12:48AM EST
Reply to: sale-tazmf-1578888032@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
OAK HARBOR — Authorities are investigating an animal cruelty case in Ottawa County that involves the extreme undernourishment of 31 horses and the death of six others.
The remaining horses have been rescued and moved over the last couple days, said Nancy Silva, humane officer for Ottawa County.
The horses were transported to the Sandusky County fairgrounds in Fremont, where dozens of humane officials and volunteers were caring for them Saturday afternoon.
The animals were rescued from a stable in the Oak Harbor area.
Six horses have died from the neglect and there were 37 horses originally, Ms. Silva said.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100130/NEWS16/100139977 (Toledo Blade Link)
THESE HORSES DESPERATELY NEED OUR HELP, IF ANYBODY CAN MAKE ANY DONATIONS TOWARD THEIR CARE ALL DONATIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED. THE OTTAWA COUNTY HUMANE SOCIETY IS DESPERATELY SEEKING FOSTER HOMES AND ADOPTION HOMES FOR ALL THE SURVIVING HORSES. THANK YOU FOR READING
another link with more detailed info:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100131/NEWS16/1310323/0/news16
One of the horses involved in this case is the stallion, Benevolence V. He was a very successful showhorse, and it is so heartbreaking to hear this news. I have heard conflicting reports that either he has been euthanized, or is still alive, but just barely hanging on. I don’t know how to put pictures on here, but just do a Goggle images search for Benevolence V to see what he used to be.
Not to hijack the thread but on my CL today is another buy it or else ad can someone upgrade this pony?
http://medford.craigslist.org/grd/1579300356.html
The ad has been pulled but this was the content:
Sorry we’re not Haitian and our fellow Americans don’t give a crap about helping those in need in their OWN COUNTRY. Since all we get is snubbed, we’ve decided to not give a crap either.
PONY. Welsh mare. Broke, but nobody cares. MUST BE GONE BY TODAY (SUNDAY) None of that “my-granddaughter-wants-a-pony†crap, we’ve heard that sap story a million times. Kill buyers welcome at this point. Wanna help Haiti so bad? THEY DO EAT HORSE MEAT. Pony may actually be more tender….
$500 FIRM (not that anyone cares, but we need that for rent or we will be out on the streets)
We’ve been trying to rehome this pony properly for months now, but the only response we’ve received is “I’ll take your pedigreed, fully broke horse for free when I notice you’re so desperate for money at the last minute.†I’D RATHER FEED HER TO THE DOGS.
I’d say ‘to good home only’, but good homes obviously can no longer afford a $500 rehoming fee. Come get her and do what you want with her. I’m just too desperate at this point to care anymore. I will NOT live with my disabled mom in the streets.
HARRASSERS & HEKLERS WILL BE IGNORED so don’t waste your time. ONLY EMAIL IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN BUYING HER TODAY RIGHT NOW!!!
Location: Grants Pass
I kept the reply email too: sale-4hpv3-1579300356@craigslist.org
Wow, words escape me….
Seems like they are a bit disappointed that no one wants (or realistically, can afford) to take care of their responsibility. They are bound for destitution and it sounds like they deserve it, not that we deserve to cover their expenses. Sad. I hope someone can get that little mare out. Some people are just disgusting.
I’ve heard it said that “the best way to make a million dollars breeding horses is to start with 5 million.”
I believe there is truth to that statement although I don’t see it as “making” a million, rather, losing 4 million! I breed selectively mainly for my own use although I sell the occasional youngster. I don’t do it to make money though. Monetarily, I’d be better off buying 2-3yr old prospects from my favorite breeders!
All this talk about people poorly running their so-called equine “businesses” has me thinking – as a serious student of business, I see a severe need for equine business consulting and thus am imagining what could be a realistic endeavor (even if only a part-time gig). I wonder though, is there an actual market for equine business consultants? I have not researched this yet as this just popped into my head. Just throwing it out there. I do believe I have seen a few advertising their services but my memory fails me.
I realize that many (if not most) people, especially in the horse world, have absolutely no business being in the horse business, and to help them with their business could be considered “enabling”. Perhaps, however, it could act as a sort of preventative. In my opinion, it is better to educate someone on how to run their business, the objective being to build a platform of understanding from which they will decide whether they can or cannot create and manage a business, than to decide not to help someone with their business in the hope that they will realize that they are horrible at it. The latter scares me as our society is displaying the lack of intelligence, common sense, and education of how to properly run an equine business, leaving an utterly ridiculous amount of useless, unwanted, dying horses. Even if people realize their mistakes (that in and of itself is a major issue), they would have to do so very early on so as not to create a whole slew of victims. Therefore, they need to be educated at or as close to the start as possible, not when they all-of-a-sudden have 20 starving horses on their hands.
Thinking about this more, I would like to offer business consulting services for a severely reduced rate (or free if possible) as my contribution to the welfare of horses and the equine market. Might be more effective as many BYBs and the like don’t even have the money needed for a start-up, much less consulting services. Knowing that I’ve prevented the unnecessary breeding or deaths of many horses would be payment enough. Granted, this comes with the understanding that I will of course have to be employed elsewhere in order to afford providing such services, but I feel like I can make a difference.
Thoughts welcome.
I am currently going to school for an Associates in Psychology and once that is done, I want to do the Therapeutic Riding program they offer at Penn State. I eventually want to work somewhere that offers therapeutic riding. I want to see what it’s like to run one before I look into the possibility of opening one in my area. The closest place is 2 hours away but could benefit many in my area. I will definately look you up in 10 years!
Brenda – best of luck to you in your studies. I’ve caught wind that Therapeutic Riding has become quite popular and is growing (at least up until the economy tanked). A local farm here in VA has been really successful with their program and have gained national recognition. From what I understand though, it doesn’t turn a huge profit (I strongly believe that these people put the money right back into their horses/program and don’t pocket much). I highly encourage you to do as much research about Therapeutic Riding and even more importantly, look into internships in that field if possible. Gain as much knowledge as you can, as soon as you can, so that you are making the best decision. The best way I was able to narrow my career path was to gain the real-world experience before paying out the rear for the education.
I do plan working for someone else before I really make my decision. I wouldn’t do it to turn a huge profit. I think working with needy individuals and horses is reward enough. My m-i-l has also thought about a high risk youth program with our church. But again, I plan on waiting several years to decide what I’ll eventually do.
Yes, you can make money (or at least could before the economy tanked which made it impossible to survive. Other business tanked too!), but, you had to run a business! Which meant all those people who dumped used up/nonproducing broodmares on the kill market. (A kill market that at that time would get you $700 plus for a mare in decent flesh.) Foals that weren’t going to bring the $ or would hurt your business to sell them went to the killers too. When I was younger I worked on a race horse breeding farm. The yearling sales made the $ to run the farm until the next yrs sales. Some stud fees sold to outside mares too. Farm did very well until it’s account owner died and the farm fell into the sons hands. He didn’t want it and sold off all the broodies and farmable land.
I also have a BYB friend who is just as ruthless a businesswoman as the account was. She makes money too. You, fugly readers would not like her because she is able to set aside any feelings for her animals and go for the money every time. Me, I cannot do that. Therefore I don’t keep my horses as a business. I keep them through their old age and then bury them here at home. My friend and I have agreeded to disagree on this subject and still remain friends.
I just received this ad by e-mail. Precisely what you are talking about. Make more babies, and then try to give away last years and the years before.
“Howdy Partner!
It comes that time every year right before the spring that we have to do what we don’t want to do! Yes in the spring when the new babies are born, we have to make room for them!
We just love ALL of our horses…but let’s be reasonable…we can’t keep all of them forever. It is at this time each year we have a “special†to share our good fortune with you. We have the best dispositioned horses around. These young horses have been handled by the kids at the ranch extensively, and are used to lots of different things! We have weanlings,yearlings, 2 year olds, and a couple of 3 year olds that are ready to start your discipline or your program! Mr. says he will let them go at a great price of $550.00.
Now, this is a deal. Some of these horses are out of our stallion, XXX, own son of XXXXXXX, the superhorse. If you have seen him, you know what a class act he is! Some of them are by our other stallions, XXXX, XXXX, XXXX, and XXXX .Some of these horses have been started in training. Some have had several rides. Contact me by email, or call me by phone, XXXXXXXXXX, to let me know what your interested in, and we will have a show n tell day one day soon at the ranch, to let Mr. and the kids show you what these horses can do! Don’t miss out on a great opportunity!â€
Incredible!!!!!
“I see a severe need for equine business consulting”
Good luck with that.
Low- to middle-end horse people are usually really good at “I got my rights, I don’t want nobody tellin’ me how to raise my horses, etc.” You’ll rarely meet a more self-convinced group this side of the Southern Baptist Convention.
The ones who “get it” already… get it, and are doing OK. Now, you MIGHT have a market with those folks, except their profit margin is sooo slim, I doubt they’d consider investing in your services. But you could try. It’s a great idea – I just don’t see many takers.
Remember that book that came out oh, 20 years or so ago, called “How to Make Money with Horses”? A local slimeball read that book and decided that he and his daughter, who’d been in 4H for a couple of years, could open a boarding/lesson/rent-a-horse operation. They hired a friend of mine (sweet girl, too trusting) to “run” it for $500/week, but everything was done on a handshake, and after she put in a zillion hours of work finding them lesson horses, etc., no pay. AT ALL. So of course she left, and of course the place was a disaster. DIdn’t take long for their reputation and skinny horses to kill the entire venture. These people knew NOTHING.
Slimeball’s wife called another friend of mine, answering a “Hay For Sale” ad. My friend told her, “It’s pure alfalfa” and the woman paused and asked in a tiny voice, “Is that good?”
Haha, yeah, the self-righteousness in the horse world is ridiculous. Like I said, I see a need, but I do know that whether needed or not, if there’s no market for it, I will not be able to do diddly-squat. Understanding money is tight with most people involved in horses, I would consider offering free services. The point would not be to make money. I don’t see making any money from helping those that truly need it.
That book sounds like an absolute disgrace. However, depending on when it came out and the background of the author, the information could have been applicable. I could see someone in the 80s who was heavily soaked in the Arabian market to write a book like that, basing it on how they made out big. Not that I agree with that though. But I don’t know the context; I never read the book.
OMG, I just realized that 1980 was 30 YEARS AGO.
I see a need, too. It’s just so discouraging – even people with years of hands-on experience have NO idea how to market themselves or their horses. Then there are folks who have no business breeding, because they’re totally uneducated about conformation, bloodlines, etc., but the fact that they’ve “done it for years” lends their enterprise legitimacy, in their minds.
I think a lot of horse people are in the horse business because they can’t stand the thought of working in an office. And so they have none of the basic skills that anyone who’s worked in an office setting (and paid attention) picks up after a few years in the business world.
In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is king: if a person in the horse business applies even the TINIEST scrap of organization/marketing/accounting skills – takes out a well-designed ad in a major breed publication, has a coherent and up-to-date website, landscapes their property, is reliable, keeps things clean and cheerful, and/or uses nice stall decorations at a show – that little oomph of professionalism will take them much farther than a horseperson with equal skills and similar horses, but no people savvy.
It also helps if they can balance the books, yes….
I was looking at the sold ads on Dreamhorse today (no temptation, ya know?) and was noticing a trend that it is the expensive horses that are selling. I didn’t see a whole lot of sold ads for horses under 10K, so it just goes to show, if you ARE going to breed, make sure you’re one of the people selling the accomplished, well-bred horse.
I’ll tell you all a secret if you promise not to tell anyone. (lol) As an uneducated teen i bred my rescued AQHA mare to a stud owned by some friends for one reason….are you ready? They were the same color! Flea bitten grey! Unfortunatly for me she came out bay, luckily for her shes quite a beauty! She’s my avatar. Shes a 3 year old now and i have DEFINATLY not made any money by breeding her mother. She is up for sale so hopefully ill be able to regroup some losses. http://www.horseclicks.com/horses/s8qsdz/ this is her add if anyones interested!
Wow. I made an account JUST to post this link. The title of this ad was “Ugliest Colt YOU Have Ever Seen!! Stud Prospect”
I mean, really, people? On top of that, he’s inbred. Geld the poor guy before something bad happens… as it inevitably will…
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-114360