Seriously, even today?
Jan 25 2010
I have to write a whole new blog entry about this – it was brought up in yesterday’s comments and now I want to know how much truth there is to it.
I normally think of the horse world as one where there is very little discimination against women. Â After all, it is difficult to find a horse discipline in which women don’t excel, rising to the highest levels of accomplishment. Â In jumping, hunters, dressage, stock breed shows, Arabian shows, and many others, you will have no problem finding women competing against men and winning against them on a regular basis. Â You don’t see it in the higher levels of polo, but that’s because it gets down to physical strength at a certain point — in low goal polo, the girls-against-the-guys games tend to routinely result in victory for the women, who often have superior riding skills to the guys, who often started riding just to play polo.
Nor is there any obvious discrimination in the barn at the kind of barns I’ve worked in. Â Most hunter/jumper and dressage barns are staffed largely by women, as are Arabian, AQHA, APHA and ApHC barns. Â Plenty of women care for polo ponies and transport horses across country. Â They train, assistant train, and groom. Â Many work as breeding managers and barn managers. Â Employment opportunities are plentiful, if not always well-paid.
That’s why I was a little surprised to read a post in the other thread that alleged that Claiborne farms refuses to hire women as stallion handlers or grooms. Â Now, I haven’t confirmed if there’s any truth to that yet, and I’d be interested to hear the answer. Â If you’ve worked for them in that capacity, and you’re a woman, speak up! Â It does remind me of rumors I have heard from friends who worked at the track that the racetrack is stuck in 1950 when it comes to women’s rights. Â Women aren’t welcomed and are often harassed, verbally and sexually, intimidated, and even physically threatened. Â I’ve heard these stories from a number of women who’ve worked at different racetracks, so there must be something to them.
So let’s talk about that today. Â If you’re a woman who has worked in the racing industry, are they still stuck in 1950? Â Have you had the same opportunities as a man? Â Have you worked for a farm that treated you like an equal and allowed you to handle stallions and supervise breedings, or was there an assumption that you weren’t competent to do that kind of work? Â If you’ve actually worked at the track, have you been harassed because you were a woman?
I don’t want to talk about every incident of some loser sexually harassing you at a horse farm, or this thread will be 700 pages long. We’ve all had that happen. I want to talk specifically about the racing industry today, and if a genuine issue still exists as to how female trainers, jockeys, exercise riders, grooms and barn help are treated and if they do not have the employment opportunities men do.
For those of you on Facebook, if you haven’t already, become a fan of Hercules the Horse to see his updates and new pictures. This is the big guy we are still trying to identify, the one who did what we all felt like doing when he bit Ron Mariotti, the kill buyer! Katie visited him yesterday and reported back!
241 comments to “Seriously, even today?”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
I have ZERO complaints about the mexicans I worked with for the last two years. I’ve had problems managing the barn with mexican’s we’ve had in the past, but these two are amazing. Very hard workers, and they listen to me, which helps the barn run A LOT smoother than it did with those other pricks we had.
When we got these guys, I guess the boss used a new head hunter that gets guys from a small village somewhere, not from the track in Mexico City. They have lots of race horse experience and we never had any of the sexism issues or horse abuse issues we had with the other ones.
I would say it is definitely true. Women are treated like sex objects and nothing more unless they insist on being treated otherwise.
Many men on the track assume that is a woman’s only purpose in life.
There IS a reason other than sexism for why we see so few top female flat jockeys. It is often harder for a woman to make jockey weight than a man of the same size and build. We naturally carry more body fat and our bodies don’t tolerate the kind of crash diets flat jockeys often engage in as well…with one result being damage to fertility.
The result of this is that most of the really talented female jockeys are to be found in the steeplechase industry where race weight is higher.
Now. Pull up a video of the Grand National and say that anyone who can ride that doesn’t have a hell of a lot of guts. I dare you.
Off topic but there sure are a lot of good examples to make that switch from a stallion to a gelding
Makes me happy I onwed geldings all this time, never had a problem with them, and the mares around us act just the same…
I admit, I like it becuase its easier, safer, and I can have more fun without spending extra time dealing with hormonal issues (never been around a bad mare before so I can’t say anything about their hormonal problems)!
I just found this site today, and I love the amount of input that goes on.
I just wanted to put in a quick commetn about stallions.
Although I have not worked with TB studs, (as of yet, it in the works) I have had several others, including my current one who is a ten year old feral stud that was caught in the Yukon Territory. He is a slightly differnt case, since by the time I was able to get him he had actually already been caught once before and horrably abused. (He will forever carry the scars from the hobbles and other ‘devises’ used on him)
But I was there when he was caught the second time, he had a herd of 17, with 12 adult mares. And he is the quietest, most respectful horse around. He has been housed beside my mare pens since I got him and he barely even looks at them, even now with a gelding and three stud colts in with him, he puts the young boys in their place when needed, but other then visiting with the mares occationally, he never touches the fence or gives us any trouble.
I guess what I am trying to say is that stallions behave according to their experiances.
My Xeny is a perfect gentelman at all times, and although training has been slow due to my hectic job schedual and family obligations the last two years. He has not problems with me no matter what time of the month it is.
As far as stallion’s trying to mount women and breed them…. Our stallion tried to mount our male farrier – does that make him gay?
There was one comment that was right on it does not take force but skill to handle a stallion. It is all about timing and tact. Extra muscle is not going to help me if 1500 lbs animals decides to take off. I have handled plenty of stallions in my life and it does not make me want a dick.
I will say I have dealt with more mares that give you a run for your money then stallions. Stallions are sensitive creatures that will follow you to the ends of the earth if you show you them boundries and limitations. But unless this horse is so spectacular and contributes to the gene pool like no other why keep him a stallion. Most Stallions lead a sad lonley life. Geldings have a happier easier life.
i find that hard to believe about Claiborne Farm. some good friends of mine have worked with the owners of Claiborne and i’ve had the pleasure of sitting with them at a horse show in Louisville. if they’ve never had a female stallion handler/manager it’s coincidence. they are lovely and charming people and i can’t imagine them discriminating based on gender. besides that, one of the friends i mentioned IS a woman and definitely would not continue associating with them if they discriminated in that way.
Two years ago, I was involved in the school program which involved breaking out untouched horses for various disciplines. One of these untouched horses happened to be an untouched, rank 7-year old Arabian stallion who didn’t know a lead line from a hole in his head. One of my friends was assigned this horse; now this friend is 5’3 and 100 Lbs soaking wet. One week with this stud and I could stand my TB filly next to him and he wouldn’t flick an ear in her direction. Besides ground manners he was an impressive shower and could withstand any tantrum or freak out that occurred within his sight.
I would challenge any person who says that women can’t handle stallions to explain away that.
Sorry to be late to the comments. Kentucky is behind in many areas, in many ways. The ridiculous excuses couched in “it’s for your own good, honey.” , I have heard them all. And when we are still uppity, they throw in something about periods. Or breasts. (anyone remember when girls weren’t supposed to play sports, because breast trauma led to breast cancer? maybe just here in Ky.) Add in good old boy crap for generations, some of these farms have been in families for a long time, and tradition is just another way of maintaining the status quo. My comment growing up was “Don’t hold the door open for me if you are later going to shut the door of opportunity in my face.” And of course, our own gender is the worst in terms of gender related slander.
I do know of one farm that prefers females for the mares, so maybe this works both ways. Rather academic, as they also prefer to hire cheap Latino labor that doesn’t object to anything.
If the question is why big name farms don’t hire women as stallion handlers, managers, maybe we can’t see the forest for the trees. Multi-million dollar farms and stallions don’t mix well with employees that can file costly sexual harassment or discrimination lawsuits.
I worked and lived on eastern tracks, STB and TB, during the 70s and 80s. Never had a problem with discrimination. The only women I saw who did were the ones who thought their “work” would be riding pretty horses and being admired for it. The backside is hard work. Dirty work and long hours, but fun and rewarding, too. Any one who couldn’t pull their weight was “encouraged” to pack their tack.
I’ve worked in a couple of race yards, one in Ireland, one in the UK…both National Hunt/Point-to-Point.
Never experienced any discrimination to be honest…if anything female grooms/work riders were actively sought…the horses seemed to respond better to them…
Also my only comment regarding women handling entires/studs…have also done my fair share of stud work…at both ends of the action…and it was always encouraged that female handlers tone down on the perfume, strong smelling deodorant and aromatic face/body creams etc for purely safety reasons….as the stallions could/would react to that, for the same reason that men often react…sweet feminine smells…but fending off an over-enthusiastic fella in a bar is a lot easier then fending off 2T of randy horseflesh…
Actually, I’ve been thinking about the menstruation thing.
Female handler approaches horse. She’s menstruating. Horse can smell blood. In some cases, she’s trying to work through cramps…and we all know horses know when we’re in pain. Horse goes ‘She’s hurt’ and might react with ‘Oh my god, where’s the bigger predator that hurt her’ or ‘She’s hurt, I can take advantage of this’.
Most female handlers, if the horse acts up at ANY time, will react appropriately…gentle but firm discipline. If this happens, then the horse will ‘get it’ and go ‘Weird human thing’ instead of ‘She’s hurt’.
But if somebody goes ‘Are you on the rag? Give me that horse before you get hurt’…then that horse is going to learn that it IS a big deal and it IS something to worry about.
So it’s entirely possible that people who believe ‘a horse will act up if his handler’s menstruating’ are actually CAUSING the acting up by how they react to it.
While in college I had a female friend of mine that took one semester in Kentucky to do a full-time internship at one of the big name TB barns. She primarily worked with the yearlings and two year olds, getting them ready for sales and assisting with initial training. She absolutely loved it, was not ever discriminated against and was offered a permanent full-time position after graduation. While her personal preference was working with babies, she was also good at handling stallions and was offered a position in the stallion barn.
As regards stallions and breeding, my Equine Repro professor goes to Ireland about once a month to check up on how the stallions at Coolmore are doing. He would tell us stories about how they manage their stallions and has said on many occasions that if he believed in reincarnation he’d love to come back as a Coolmore stallion because their management is so phenominal. Every time they are caught for something they get a light grooming, they get regular turnout, go barefoot most of the time, are ridden every day (if sound) and basically just get to be horses. Bad behavior is not tolerated and as a result, the stallions are great to be around.
As so many other people have said, the MYTH that stallions respond differently to women because of their hormones during mentruation, is just that, a MYTH. I went through a stallion repro course where I was daily handling multiple stallions in and out of the breeding shed. I never had a problem with any of them and additionally, in my personal experience, a MARE that is having a bad day is much worse than a STALLION having a bad day.
I live about half an hour from Coolmore in Ireland…and I have to say the place is incredible, totally designed and built for the equine residents, their every wish and need has been carefully thought out and more than catered for.
Their stallion boxes on the main stallion yard are fabulous, the loose boxes in their own right are larger than my cottage, and each one has its own ‘grooms room’ out the back, with tack and equipment storage, basic kitchen facilities and a small cot for groom’s to overnight on if necessary.
The mare’s barns are out of this world (and there are many of them dotted around the estate – each one is self-contained, with its own set of paddocks, walkers/exercisers, vet box, padded foaling boxes etc etc, and their own staff team and yard manager…all totally self-contained, to keep disease at a minimum etc.
And then there are the seperate yards (each 100 boxes plus) for the yearlings and sales preps etc all with their own self-contained set of training facilities etc…and the seperate yard for staff horses etc…
In addition to that, what I thought was a really nice touch, were the small memorials/rose gardens dotted around the estate on the internal roadways, commemorating past equine residents, with a mini bio on each one…and a dedicated rose garden near the office block for some of their world-famous past equine residents. Gone, but definitely not forgotten.
I could go on and on, Coolmore is a horse-lover’s dream…if I ever win the lottery, I want their Architect’s number!
If any of you are ever visiting Ireland, and get offered a tour of Coolmore and their amazing facilities, grab the opportunity with both hands and DO IT!!!
Seriously, even today, yes. And it’s not just limited to working in the horse barns, either. Check out racetrack management, sales company management, The Jockey Club, trade publications, National Thoroughbred Racing Association, you name it. Very, very sad.
I haven’t done much with horses over the last few years and I’m only 17. I’ve finished a weeks worth experience with a friend of mine at a small rescue yard. This yard has more women than guys as in whilst I was there is was two girls doing most of the horsey work whilst a few guys were around the yard, mainly for maintence, muck bucket shifting and the like.
I don’t know why he is but they have a stallion pony on the yard, my friend and I were forbidden from working from him, not because we’re girls, because he’s a rather tempermental pony, we’re somewhat inexpereienced with horses and well we’re working there as work expereince so it was a Health and Saftey issue as opposed to a ‘you are female’ issue. Same applied to an Irish Cob they have on the yard, he’s a gelding I believe but he’s a rather domninant and highly strung horse, we could go in with him if we needed but we had to be careful as he would try to ‘prove’ himself boss and we would have to try to stand up to him, lest we wanted him to push us around.