Another day, another hundred starving horses in Oregon…
Jan 22 2010
If you’re reading this blog, you probably already agree that one of the most important things we need to do to solve the unwanted horse problem in this country is breed more intelligently — as in, fewer numbers and higher quality — rather than arguing about how to solve the problem AFTER the fact, as in the great slaughter debate.
Some of you may have come to that conclusion using your own common sense and logical reasoning skills, some because someone educated you politely, and some because someone educated you not-so-politely. Â ;) Â But despite all of us out there trying to get the simple concept of supply and demand through some horsepeoples’ thick skulls, we are still having incidents like this one.
Today’s moron is named Tania Herring. Â Tania seems to have a pretty nice facility, from the pics — a facility many of us would take a hell of a lot better care of, if we were fortunate enough to own it. Â But not Tania. Â She has stuffed it full of horses. Â Big horses, small horses, spotted horses, solid horses, all of them skinny and sick and if it has a uterus, it’s probably pregnant, too. Â Oh, and just for good measure — several have strangles.
Whoooo did Tania ever take her Myspace down fast! Â Sorry, Sunshine, there’s such a thing as the Google cache and I can still get into it no problem. Â Glad you had time to walk on the beach while your animals were starving! Â Tania lists her income on Myspace as $45,000 – $60,000. How the fuck did you think that was going to pay for 117 horses, you ignorant cow? I am so tired of people who cannot do anything approaching simple math. Â She also lists her profession as “horse trainer.” Again, can anyone point to a single horse she’s trained? Â Yeah, right. Â Another poser.
Oops, she didn’t seem to get her web site down though. Here ya go! Â OF COURSE she thinks she is a RESCUE, too. Â OF COURSE. Â Not that the link goes to anything. Â Hey, I bet she was going to start listing the horses SHE starved on her site as “rescues!” Â I bet that happens a LOT.
http://www.itsmysite.com/cross-tieranch/
Better check it out quick and see if any of your ex-horses are there!
A zillion stallions…of course. Â People like this are so predictable! Â How much do you want to bet she doesn’t know which one the mares are in foal to?
http://www.itsmysite.com/cgi-bin/itsmy/go.exe?page=4&domain=1&webdir=cross-tieranch
Oh, and she was apparently breeding “Quarter Ponies.” Â You know, you don’t need to breed Quarter Ponies. Â You just go to the auction or a regular AQHA breeding farm and buy the ones that stayed pony size. Â I have gotten some really fancy ones under $1000 — you can, too — no need to specifically breed for them! Â That said, she did have some cute ones and if you’re looking for a rescue pony, this is definitely going to be a bunch of rescues to check out for something potentially show quality.
Linn County Animal Rescue, a good group that is overwhelmed dealing with Linn County’s idiots, could really use your support if you have a few dollars to send.  (Example of said idiots:  ”Hello, my name is Colt. I am a Morgan gelding. When I was about a year old, someone bought me from the auction and took me home. All they had was a small yard where they tied me up like a dog”)  Here is their website and there’s a paypal link on there — just scroll down.  Of course, if you have the space, money and knowledge to foster or adopt a pregnant mare to your family this spring, I’m sure they’d really love to meet you!  And I’m guessing they’d also be grateful for anyone who has good stallion facilities as some of the studs may not be in good enough condition to geld immediately.  Just give LCAR a shout if you can help — you can reach them at 541-258-3422 or linncountyanimalrescue@yahoo.com.  Oh, and there are other animals too – just read the news stories.
I’m disturbed at the comments that Herring will probably get a wrist-slap. Â How is this so different from Jason Meduna? Â Well,they weren’t out in the middle of nowhere so it was discovered before there were 80 deaths. Â Sounds like the law in Linn County won’t support the charges she deserves, but I’d like to know what we can do to push for the maximum — I’ll post when I know more!
229 comments to “Another day, another hundred starving horses in Oregon…”
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What in God’s name is going on with the horse in that first picture? That does look like such an awesome facility, why is it always the fucking morons who have all the resources?
They probably have the same resources as the rest of us, except we blow ours on stupid stuff like, you know, hay, grain, shavings, vet bills, farrier visits, etc…
Crazy us, spending on those frivolous things!
According to KATU news and the captions of photos on their site, that horse has mange. Honestly I’ve never seen a horse with mange that extreme before (come to think of it, I’ve never seen a horse with mange). At first I thought it was some sort of funky pinto marking. So very sad.
wow!how do these asshats keep doing this under the radar until its too late for some of their herd??? I want to go down and give her an ass beating…this just pisses me off.
I looked at her website and she does/did have some very beautiful horses/ponies.I hope they all get out of there.
Thanks for the good morning cheer fugs lol.
wow what a mess…none of her stallions have done anything and they all look like crap. The first stallion listed on the page,quarter pony, if she is riding him in a western pleasure class Im pretty sure she got dead last. She has a death grip on those reins..western pleasure= loose reins..hits the pleasure part, that pony looks like he want to take off barreling around the area!
That Grulla one isn’t even alive anymore, died a few years ago “randomly” And she was leasing that facility, didn’t own it.
Poor grulla – he wasn’t even old! I wonder what happened?
So she was leasing it? Poor property owners…sounds like she trashed it.
I can’t remember if he colic’d or what happened, but she had been breeding him and he was pretty thin (go figure, right?), and the next thing I hear is that she lost him. Oh and Stallion #2, isn’t even really a pony per say, But a horse who was malnourished while young and didn’t reach his full height. Fantastic.
Actually, the Grulla is still alive, it was the paint stud Philosophy N Art that died. He was the best bred one she had.
Not a very good parent either…
http://www.itsmysite.com/cross-tieranch/images/Snickers__kids_1.jpg
Oh, she was a 4-H leader. I found her on the Linn County 4-H site.
4-H, you have GOT to start checking these people out. This is just embarrassing.
one of the stallions previous owners is ready to take it back per your horse reunions website, Name is Tammy Shelton… Docs Jet Pride. Might want to get in touch with her to let her know whats going on with her former horse.
Those aren’t her kids, I know those kids, but I know what you mean. More like, not a good 4-H leader, I mean look how she shows herself! How can she teach kids to ride and take care of their horses properly when she can’t!?
Exactly. And when that is who kids learn from, that is what they think is normal – and the cycle continues.
Veering off topic here, but when I was a kid I spent a few years in 4H and for the first year we had an AWESOME guy who was our leader. Then something happened, not sure what because I was just a kid but I remember them saying something about “professional differences” between him and his boss and all of a sudden some lady in her early twenties was our leader. She was a DISASTER! I don’t think she was even a horseback rider. When we had the guy, he used to come out once or twice a month to do both mounted and unmounted meetings with us and he was very helpful. She never once came out to our barn; she required that we go to her office to meet. When we went, she spent most of her time gossiping with the other ladies at the office, and when we actually did discuss a topic, it was more like us teaching her. Little by little everyone dropped out over the next year. We had a pretty active group before that. I wonder how 4h chooses and monitors their leaders? Don’t get me wrong, I have since volunteered with and given talks/demos at some clubs I was VERY impressed with, so I am not dogging 4h. Just bitter about getting ripped off when I was a kid and you guys just HAD to bring up all of those old memories =)
Totally agree that 4h is only as successful for kids as the their leader is at the skills they are teaching. As a kid my 4H group was great, thought i didn’t have a horse at the time, the other projects and skills I learned were great. The leaders were good, knowledgeable and went out of their way to make sure we had whatever we needed for our various projects, from sewing to bucket calves. Because of my experience, I got my children involved. Things have changed.
I think the biggest change is in parents. They don’t want to be involved really, they just want a place to drop off their kids for a few hours. They don’t want to continue to help their children with their projects at home or even pay to cover the supplies, they want the leader to do it all. The horse club in my area what not a bad group, and my kids did show at the 4H fair shows, but they obtained their instruction from their RI, not the 4H leaders. My daughter took her horse to the StateFair one year – they were doing well that year, we looked at it as something you earned. Not so, anyone could go and anyone did. There were very nice horses with good riders, quality skills and training, and there were think scraggly horses with no foot care bouncing off of the others in the warm up arena. However, I think most of those were sent home at the “vet check” because I didn’t notice them in the actual classes, as much. We thought my daughter was going to be one of the average kids(her first time, etc. ) but that wasn’t the case. She was much more prepared than many who were there. But it wasn’t because of the 4H horse club, it was because of her RI.
Contrast that with the “dog club” my kid s belonged to – the leaders actively raised and showed dogs, and had for years. They taught my children how to groom their different breeds, how to show a dog, the names of the anatomy of a dog, how to feed them, and how to train them. They took the two divisions of shomanship and obedience very seriously and held “dog class” all summer long to give kids the chance to reallywork on their “projects”. Again, duaghter went to state fair, cleaned up in the showmanship ring. (A falling wall of gates killed her obedience class – all but 2 dogs freaked and broke their long stay) Most of the kids there did not know how to show a dog correctly. 4H really is only as good as the leaders.
Please excues typos, there is such a delay between when I type and when it shows up, it kills my focus! LOL
The auctions are full of kids doing this same thing too…:P
Oh My God!!!!! Those poor horses!!! I am angry at this… why didn’t anyone ever report this before it actually got to this point!!??!? STRANGLES!?! Why on earth would people even get to thinking that 117 horses is a fair amount and that it would be easy to keep them! 117 horses eat A LOT of hay, if I had that many, I would have to keep all our hay, buy every cut possible and buy everyone’s supply within a 100 km radius from my house! I would spend my life hauling hay! Who is their farrier (probably none)?? These horses look ripe with disease. She deserves to be put in that pen for as long as the first abused horse was… see how it feels then! The horses look deprived from minerals and vitamins, full of lice and skin issues. Their enclosure is nothing but a thick pile of manure. Why on earth do you think that leaving stallions run with mares is a good idea!?!?! I will never rant enough about this… these things make me go over the top and authorities are the first ones to take their sweet time.
Thank goodness she finally got arrested and I hope that these horses get the good home they deserve. Keep us posted please, she deserves the maximum sentence and I will sign up every way that I can to get her the sentence she deserves!
The sad thing is, she HAS been reported before! I’ve called her in before myself, and so have close friends of mine, they never actually did anything until now, which is irritating. Should have jumped on her when she had 30 or 40 not 116!
*sigh* I believe you. That is what is so frustrating, isn’t it? Instead of a 40 horse seizure now we have a 117 horse seizure. Thank you for reporting it and for trying, though! It tends to work EVENTUALLY…I just wish it worked faster.
Oh my god.
I’ve read for a long time, but I just had to comment:
I clicked on “Stallions at Stud” or whatever expecting the worst. I was not disappointed.
The first one loaded and I scrolled to the next. The page kept scrolling, and just, ugh. Every time I expected it to end there was one more fugly stallion. Want to take bets on how many were bred on site and just never gelded?
Just terrible, she deserves a lot more than a slap on the wrist, sadly I’m afraid she won’t get it. Also, she deserves what she gets for taking her MySpace down (no way to directly contact her) and leaving the contact page of her website up! Herself > the Horses, yet again.
Great… Another wannabe rescue, we’ll breed anything farm that needs rescuing. Here come those same old tired Woe is me, take pity excuses. Start counting them. Is there an Excuse web site you can cut-n-paste from? You just know she’ll get the Judy Caton wrist slap.
Strangles???? Who TF doesn’t know they have strangles? It’s not terribly common in the NW. Oh yeah, they just have a runny nose (and throat). They’ll get over it soon. Sounds like this DS never had a Vet out for anything. Who can’t hear the coughing? *head-desk*
Something tells me there’s a bus load of Enablers on their way, from Monroe, WA (now that their done cleaning that mess up).
What the hell! Owning sick and starving horses does not make you a rescue-it makes you an irresponsible, piece-of-shit owner who doesn’t deserve horses! And 117 horses! What would anyone do with all those horses except make more horses with no future?!?!? She’s deff someone who needs to be eliminated from the gene pool, but sadly she has also gone and reproduced, leaving the world with future irresponsible breeders-Just what we need(sarcasm)!!! I hope she gets put in the slammer for a longgggg time-atleast as long as any of the horse she had belonged with her. While were at it, they should treat her like she treated her horses-limited food and water, no medical care, and a cell that is never cleaned!!! If people knew that if they abused and neglected their animals and then were arrested that they’d be treated like their animals, maybe they would take better care of their critters. Just a thought….
I’m still trying to learn about conformation…can somebody pick out a few of the stallions and explain why they are fugly? My eye doesn’t really see anything wrong with most of them.
#1, the flaxen chestnut Quarter pony, isn’t so bad. His neck looks awful in the confo pic – see how thick it is and how even the underside bulges outward? His hip isn’t great, and he appears somewhat camped out behind, but he has a nice shoulder. I’d geld him but I’d consider him a gelding with some decent potential. Even ridden as poorly as he in that pic, you can see where he could be cute under saddle.
#2, it’s hard to evaluate from a grazing picture but I can see a straight shoulder and the hip is really unattractive. If you want to see a show quality Shetland stallion for comparison, here you go:
#3, yuck. Super ugly neck, weak muscled, butt high and post legged.
I actually think #4 is cute except for the long, weak pasterns. He is posed very badly…I think that’s a nicer neck than the pose makes it look like.
#5, I just want to say he looks like a gelding. He’s spectacularly unspecial. The neck is short and the head/neck are coarse, and we have post legs again behind mixed with being a little bit sickle hocked for good measure.
#6, straight shoulder, another ugly neck and look how long he is. He looks long and he’s shot from the 3/4 view. Can you imagine how long he is if you stand right next to him and look at him that way? He’s a great color, but he should be a great colored gelding.
#7 when the head is as long as the neck, this is a good example of a trait you do not want to reproduce.
NONE of these horses would make a bad GELDING. They all have enough good things about them that they could do some sort of a job well enough to make an owner happy. But not a one of them is stallion quality, and even if they were better horses, the only one that has accomplished anything in the show ring is #1, and his accomplishments seem fairly questionable. I would not have a hard time finding a 14.2 or smaller AQHA stallion that could whip his butt in halter, which makes me wonder how big those classes were?
Oh I definitely wasn’t saying they are stallion material. I liked #1, I’d say he’s probably the best one she’s got. And he’d probably make one heck of an awesome gelding. #2 looked unspectacular to me, but not awful (although truly I’m just not parital to palominos). #3 didn’t look terrible appealing, now that you mention your reasons it’s more clear as to why. I’m like that, I can see where a horse doesn’t “look right” or something, but I can’t really explain WHY. The pasterns jumped out at me on #4 as well, but otherwise he’s not really bad looking. I also like the darker palominos better than the super pale ones. #5 strikes me as a run of the mill horse. He’s similar to a lot of what I see people riding. #6 just looks like his whole front end is weird. He’s standing on a slope, as it’s obvious his front hooves are lower than his back hooves, but I don’t think he’d look much better standing on flat ground. #7 looked to me like probably the poorest quality one in the group. But again, I see a lot of horses like this. Not stallion quality, but nothing super wrong as a gelding. The Arab didn’t look awful to me, that last picture makes his butt look all wrong, but it’s not like that i the other 2 pics so that must be the uneven ground he’s standing on.
But thanks for clearing that up. Based on the comments, I was expecting some terrible looking horses. But in looking I saw horses that should be geldings, but nothing that looked all that bad. I’ve seen way worse.
Oh and I totally agree with those who have said that it sucks that people like that have such great facilities. I SO agree. My dream is to run a nice boarding stable, and it just annoys me with some of the nice facilities I’ve boarded in, that are run so crappy. I know I could do better, but don’t have the resources available to make it happen, at least not any time in the foreseeable future. Unless that scratch off ticket in my car really pays off when I buy a ticket cashing it in (LOL I got it for Xmas and it won $3, so I’m buying another ticket with it).
Part of it is just the sheer numbers too. Why five/six (sorry, I can’t remember off the top of my head) stallions for one extremely low quality, backyard style, operation!? Most high quality, significantly larger and -significantly- more financed operations only have six or seven.
Heck, even Darley only has 25! And they’re the largest stud operation in the world, last time I checked. Their stud fees are also a minimum of 4,000 Euros, with several at more like 22,000.
Hmm…seems I need to do a little more studying. xD
Without getting into picking out the flaws of each, *ANY* stallion should be held to a MUCH higher standard than mares or geldings, because he has the ability to affect so much of the population down the road. He can breed many, many more offspring than any mare can unless he is sterile, and so he has to be held to a much higher standard. He should be truly exceptional and not just own a set of usable testes.
1) A good stallion makes an exceptional gelding.
2) There is no such thing as “too good to geld”
3) There is NO breed of horse/dog/cat/ whatever that would be even so much as affected, if one outstanding individual had never existed/died young/been gelded. BECAUSE WE WOULD NEVER HAD KNOWN WHAT COULD BE, AND, THEREFORE, WOULD NOT MISS IT!!! We might well think “Oh, So-and-So was irreplaceable”, but it just is not true.
I guess this is one of those rhetorical questions for people all thinking the same thing anyway…but where’s the logic in:
1. reduced stud fees for grade mares
2. stud fees “reduced due to the economy”
I see it on freakslist all the time too.
“freakslist” – LOVE it.
What both of those tactics say is “I want to make a buck, even if it’s less of a buck than usual, and I don’t give a shit about responsible breeding or where my stallion’s foals end up.”
I’ve got for you. How about continuously reducing the stud fee just to get someone to breed to your fugly shouldbeagelding stallion that hasn’t accomplished anything but eating and producing manure for compost and never will? Or this one’s even better! Will trade my fugly’s semen for something of value. WTH? I’ve seen all these.
The real message is right there in the sentence. The bills are due.
When people/organizations start talking about slaughter being a viable alternative to overpopulation, I wonder if they consider that option for the people, too?? I hate to sound crass, but honest to God this is horrible. I can’t take care of more than two horses myself (either with time OR treasure) so cannot imagine how a person could have 100, though she might have started with two and, well, breedings happen.
And again, anyone can claim to be a “trainer.” That ticks me off too. Don’t want more “big government” or government intervention, but it seems to me there HAS to be a way to regulate this, like requiring that someone WITH a sign on their gate that says “Trainer” MUST also produce a track/show record of wins or points or SOMETHING to prove that they are doing more than just painting the words on the sign. OR, as Fugly is doing with this blog, educating the masses that THEY need to ask about the trainer’s record or check on the Internet.
Of course, even the big guns screw up now and then. Todd Pletcher has been fined $25K and suspended 60 days stayed to 10 days if he stayed out of trouble for a year by the CHRB (California Horse Racing Board) for a procaine violation in one of the 2008 Breeders Cup races. He was treateing the filly with penicillin that containd procaine, yadda yadd. Details on Bloodhorse.com today (Friday 1/22).
TB Dancer, many years ago when I mistakenly thought I might like to become a race trainer (I was developing privately owned horses for eventing and shared a barn with a race trainer and soon learned firsthand what that corrupt, abusive and thoroughly ugly “industry” is all about) I began researching what sort of licensing I would need and the “testing” for the licensing. The Washington State Racing Commission furnished me a handbook. In recommendations for studying for the licensing exam the Commission wanted potential trainers to know things like what a trifecta was – that is, the ins and outs of gambling. Not a single item focused on horse care, leg wrapping, understanding of equine diseases and especially lameness, farrier work – nothing. Simply – nothing. I would hope that has changed but I frankly have to agree with you – pretty much anyone can hang out their shingle as a “trainer.” I think that in the US “trainers” and instructors and “breeders” should be subjected to the same type of regulation seen in Europe. Granted there are abuses there. But regulation would weed out at least some.
@sunvalleysally:
I live in Germany and it`s perfectly legal here for anyone to announce him/herself to be a “trainer”, no matter what kind of education (if any!) he/she has.
But there are two sorts of training available for those who want to become a “real” trainer (at least one who SHOULD know, what he/she is doing…). The ones who want to become Professionals, undergo an intensive three-year-training, during which they work at a barn to get some relevant professional experience and attend professional school. When they passed their exams, they are allowed to call themselves “Pferdewirt”. Those who just want to train horses and riders as an amateur/side business and get some “training for training”, are attending some courses and take a test at the end (practical/academic). They are afterwards allowed to call themselves “Trainer C” (basic level), “Trainer B” (advanced, you have to be a “Trainer C” to take the Trainer-B-Test) and the tough ones even attend the “Trainer A”-Course.
Of course, despite the easily available education opportunities here, there IS abuse. And neglect and every other possible bad things that can happen to horses. BUT it is quite hard for uneducated morons to get a reputation, let alone clients, in the horse business.
Germans LOVE people who can show certificates for acchieved goals, and since you can get training lessons/horse boarding/whatever from a Pferdewirt or a “Trainer C” etc. for just a few bucks, there is just no need to go to the Wannabe-Trainer, who hasn`t acchieved anything. (sure, if you got a show record a mile long, this might make up for the lack of any certificate…) Most insurances here won`t even give out insurance policys for trainers without a certificate.
Sorry for any grammatical and/or any other kinds of faults, I don`t often write in english.
averagecowgirl, your English is profoundly excellent for it being a second language. Heck, I know many native English speakers who could learn a thing or two from you!
I have a good friend who went to a German riding school (she is now residing in France), and she says the education she received there far surpassed many other facilities she has encountered around the world. It sounds like Germany has a well organized system for classifying trainers.
Your English is better than that of most American Backyard Breeders
ain’t that the goddurn truth.
Dear God!!! Im sure she will lose the farm and then some ill-informed realestate agent will end up selling to some one who doesnt know its past and end up with a barn full of strangles and god only knows what else! I just hope it sits on the market long enough to kill anything contagiuos….at the very least to kill of all the stupid that is in the air.
I have never seen mange so bad that it bubbled the skin up like that on a horse!! I hope she gets some weird third world skin disease thats causes her skin to slough off with a great amount of pain…..Just sick.
That IS one of the worst cases of mange I’ve seen on a horse. Mange on a horse is rare, period, even in rescue.
But you know, NEVER deworming and NEVER grooming and having them live in filth will produce some interesting effects!
Really, that woman needs to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. She knew what she was doing. You don’t see them looking like that on her web site, do you? She knew which pics to put up. I wonder if she had decent pasture and just let them starve all winter, assuming they’d fatten up in the spring?
Is that what’s up with the first horse? I’ve worked in small animal clinics so I’m familiar with mange but honestly I wasn’t aware horses were even susceptibleto it. *goes off to google*
That’s an admirable wish, but I don’t know if the stupid can EVER be cleared out of the air…
With the risk of sounding sappy, that first picture literally made me cry. Why do people think it is okay to do this to horses? 116 horses!? How could you look at 116 horses everyday in this condition and be able to sleep at night? Shit, even be able to live out your day. Or, maybe, they weren’t tended to AT ALL so the dumb ass didn’t look at them. I wish animal abusers would get better punishment.
if you go to KMTR.COM you will see a local video clip and story.
There are horses left there.
I can tell you from many years of living in Oregon that Oregon authorities DO NOT GIVE A RAT’S PATOOT about this. Someone above asked “why wasn’t this reported.” Well – you know what? It WAS reported over and over AND OVER again and the authorities did absolutely nothing. It is extremely difficult to even attract the interest of a District Attorney once an arrest is made.
If a case can get before a judge, in some of this state’s counties’ Circuit Courts, the punishment (depending how clever the asshat’s asshat attorney is) ranges from a “no no that’s naughty don’t do it again” to jail time and/or fines, usually nominal because the defendant will OF COURSE claim they are “too broke.” Then, they will get “community service” which will be “road crew” if they are lucky, which they usually are, which consists of trashpicking along the freeway medians complete with refreshments served and a Sheriff’s truck-mounted portapotty. No punishment that will convince them never to do this again. If you read up about “Teflon Ted” in Oregon he has had YEARS of moving from county to county and abusing, neglecting and starving dogs – and while counties may not have a lot of dollars to sink into livestock impoundment and rescue they really DO have enough to prosecute companion animal crimes. They’d rather just give raises to county management, IMHO.
I’m afraid I have become one of the eye-for-an-eye/frontier justice types that I formerly thought were misguided. My strong suggestions for punishment are: if she owns the fancyass property then the municipality needs to put a lien on it and execute the lien for the county’s and rescue organizations’ out-of-pocket costs; second, smear this asshat’s name ALL over the internet and publicly also OUT the 4-H movers and shakers in Oregon that allowed her to be a “leader”; third, let her go hungry and thirsty and cold just long enough to convince her that her treatment of these animals was beyond the relative “forgiveness” of miniscule legislative “punishments”; and finally fourth and most importantly levy a permanent injunction from ever owning animals and assign a permanent knowledgeable probation officer to monitor her.
Finally – there really, really needs to be a national animal abuser registry – an official one, not just the website that does a surprisingly good job of documenting these cases, pet abuse dot com. An official registry that law enforcement in other states could tap into to learn the criminal history of abusers and thus hopefully lead to stronger sentencing.
Punishment needs to be extremely strong and ruthlessly enforced with a LOT of media coverage – as a deterrent to the abuser and as a very strong message to future abusers.
You forgot to mention making her pregnant by some random person and recieving no medical care while she’s starving, dirty, and thirsty in your eye-for-eye justice.
I’m afraid I have become one of the eye-for-an-eye/frontier justice types that I formerly thought were misguided.
I like that. Wanna team up?
When all else fails, Kick-Ass! Make the punishment fit the crime – Problem solved. It almost always works. If it doesn’t, kick it up a lick.
Oh boy, can I join too?! *waves hand wildly*
Perhaps it’s exactly what our modern society is lacking. The “justice” system is too complex for comprehension by simple minds. Eye-for-an-eye, now that’s something everyone can understand, and hopefully adjust their behaviour accordingly.
I mean, DOGS understand it. (“If I bite my littermates, they bite back, and it hurts, so I won’t bite them.”)
I’ll go one further, then.
Randomly pregnant, fed enough to keep her alive, then have the child removed at three months and given to ….well, she would never know.
Yeah, but the government can’t even properly handle the Sex Offender data…we’d have someone with a dog with a boo-boo on its paw lumped in with puppy-mill people, just like young people get registered as sex offenders with the John Wayne Gacy types just because their girlfriend was a year under the legal age, and said Gacy type lives out in the community while the kid can’t get a job. It’s a great idea in theory but practice already shows that it’s not viable. More government is not the answer.
I have to agree with you there. The sex offender thing is a mess and makes NO sense.
I knew a girl who was a registered sex offender because she pulled over to pee behind some bushes on a long road trip. I also knew a girl who was a registered sex offender because she and her step sister had taken some “suggestive” photos of each other in bathing suits when she was 18 and her step sister was 15 and someone told on them.
I have had a dealing with Tania in the past. She took rescues, unwanted, and unbroke horses and ponies. She would train them and then resell them. I had a pony that was a heck of a bucker and she bought him. I saw him at a peewee rodeo a couple years later being ridden by a kid who had bought him from her. She did a great job with him. I THINK that she probably just got overwhelmed and with the drop in the market was stuck with all of these horses. I do not know her personally or condone the condition of these horses at all, so please don’t take this comment as saying that. Just giving some insight into who she is and what she does.
Do you think people knew how MANY she had, or was she trying to keep that from people?
I just don’t get the thought process here. I mean, the easy way out is to say, oh, hoarding, it’s a mental disorder. But I don’t think I believe this many people are actually mentally ill. I get hopelessly stuck wondering how you get to those numbers while knowing you do not have a way to support them…it’s so weird to me. Why do people want to have these massive amounts of horses, knowing how much work they are and how expensive they are and how likely things are to go south if one single thing changes, like the price of hay, or you lose your job or whatever? It doesn’t make any sense.
I totally agree! I truly believe she knew better. I don’t think she was a hoarder. If anything I think she had too many that she had “plans” for and just got overwhelmed. She rehabbed, trained, and sold several other horses that I know of and they were well trained. I guess only she can say why she let it get to the point it did. I feel bad for the horses, for sure. And it’s not like they can just foster them out – who would want to knowingly subject thier horses to one that has been exposed recently to Strangles. Just crazy!!!
Another thought – what was she supposed to do with all these horses? Let’s say that she did realize she had waaay too many, you can’t even give a horse away right now, let alone send them to slaughter. And I don’t know of anyone who could pay to humanely euthanize and then pay the discard fees on even half of the horses she had.
Does it say anywhere how much property she had? I’m just curious as to how many were shoved together in tiny pens.
Actually, you can send them to slaughter all day – doesn’t make it right, but you can. Just clearing up the facts.
Situations like this do not develop overnight. The person always knows they are short on money, things are going south, etc. for months if not years. It’s easier to sell or give away horses in summer. She had 4-H connections and some of those horses were safe, trained children’s gaming horses.
Even these days, you can place horses – but you have to admit how bad things are. I guarantee that when someone posts online and says, I CAN’T FEED THEM, THEY ARE GOING TO STARVE people take in their horses. Now, of course, the quality of those homes may be another issue but at least that person has admitted the situation and isn’t hiding it, so that no one even has a CHANCE to help.
Ultimately as I’ve said many times before, there is no way to fix the current problem without a lot of euthanasia. I really believe that. No one likes the sound of it, but it’s unavoidable — it’s just like dogs and cats, there simply are not enough homes, enough money, enough food. I’d like to put people like Tania, who created the problem, to work and force them to work off some of the costs of this clean-up, but even that won’t be enough. There has been way too much irresponsible breeding and ownership (i.e. lack of training of young stock) and there ISN’T enough money, NOT ANYWHERE, to fix the whole mess. Not even Madeleine Pickens has the money to rescue them all.
Nobody thinks they’re BYBs or hoarders though. Every now and then I get a panic attack wondering what disorder I’ve got that I can’t see and that my friends and family don’t have the heart to tell me about. I have these friends (really! well, a couple). They are nice people and not really hoarders, but BYBs for sure. Their dogs and horses are happy and healthy. But Friend 1 doesn’t have two of her dogs spayed or neutered, and every other year they have an accidental crop of puppies that get sold cheap. The ones that don’t find homes (they have a genetic disorder) stay with her forever and get neutered. They aren’t show dogs; no working or agility dog titles. Just nice pets. Then again, she would never breed her mares in this economy.
Friend 2 never has any money. She works but must not make much, I guess. She rents where she lives and boards her horses in what is literally a big back yard, can’t afford training (but is a self-styled PNH trainer), doesn’t have access to a barn or arena for riding, and is always scraping up money for hay and needs tack to fit her horses. She has no savings, no Plan B for the month she doesn’t scrape it up. She has 2 mares and (you saw this coming) bred one. She doesn’t know if it took because she can’t afford for the vet to come out and check. The mares are registered but haven’t shown, and she doesn’t ride the one who’s bred because she (the mare) is mental. She wants to keep the foal, so at least she wasn’t hoping it would make her money.
I just said mean things about my friends. I guess I could say it to their faces, but maybe I’m afraid to hear the response. They could reveal something about me I won’t admit to myself, like I’m a crappy rider or worse.
I know what you mean. I’ve been going through it with a family member that wanted to breed her mare. I did my best to educate her and give her an idea of what the horse world is really going through but she had her mind made up. Both her mare and the sire she chose are unspectacular, tho both have great dispositions and are great to be around and work with. They have decent conformation, but has she been my mare I would not have bred her, JMO. Sigh* I did what I could, but on a happier note she isn’t going to sell the foal and he will be very well cared for and trained (heck even her goats get the fluid drained from their arthritic knees). When her non horsy S/O found out the cost of the stud fee he suggested that they buy a stud and start breeding-her answer? “HELL NO! I will never own a stallion”. Thank goodness for that. I’ll be chronicling the happenings through my blog- always open to suggestions-advice etc. http://www.latokarla.blogspot.com
Regarding Stallions, no horse needs to procreat unless exceptional example of the breed not only in conformation, but way of going and Dispostion..that being the corner stone.
With that said I will keep intact and show under saddle stallions and never breed them, some just make wonderfull horses and keep it in their pants and earn the right to keep the balls on….but not use them.
And no they aren’t miserable lonely guys. Just not turned out w/ anyone else but their gelded shetland ponies.
Fugly, while there really are hoarders who have some sort of mental disorder, having known situations like this for decades in three Pacific NW states, in my opinion what these people really are: control freaks. Sociopaths. Incredibly fricking arrogant and “above the fray” types. They aren’t usually people who start rescues and get overwhelmed. They aren’t people who truly care but fell on hard times because if they were truly caring it wouldn’t have come to such as pass as we see here.
I saw another chapter-and-verse situation a couple of months ago and it is exactly EXACTLY the same as I have seen in most of these situations over five decades: another Arabian “breeder” (in a small town an hour east of Salem, Oregon) with a barn full of starving horses, not just Arabians, the best of the lot was maybe a Henneke 2-3 gelding with crooked legs severely underdeveloped which indicates past worse nutritional deficiencies, one mare with (from his behavior around people) an un-handled foal at side and this mare so royally bred it would bring any knowledgeable responsible Arabian breeder to tears but with a Henneke 1, coated and matted in filth, in a stall that clearly had remained uncleaned for weeks if not months. Husband and wife owners, VERY well fed and quite impatient with visitors that day because they wanted to be out snowmobiling on their own fairly new snow mobiles. The attitude? They didn’t even care enough to clean the barn before the appointed visit to look at the one horse they had advertised. Incredibly arrogant: THEY ARE BREEDERS but “just have to reduce the herd” and so were advertising on freakslist and contemplating the auction. One snow mobile could have been sold for money to buy hay for that barn for a month and buy some dry bedding or a blanket to cover shivering boney bodies in frigid weather – that is SERIOUS snow country. And they had the nerve to complain because the starved Saddlebred mare they had sent out to be bred this year “didn’t take.” DUH.
‘ats what i’m talkin’ about. Arrogance. Controlling. A mentality that whatever they do is fine, the rules that apply to other people don’t apply to them. God-complex shown in trying to create more little 4-legged lives where someone else has to step in and deal with the mess. Complete attitude of ENTITLEMENT.
Not just in horses. I submit for your consideration, “octomom.”
Hear hear. Run of the mill horse traders do every day what this woman claims to do, except the don’t get stuck with 100+ horses they can’t feed. They know how to TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS in whatever form that may take. I sure wouldn’t let her hide behind the label of rescue, hoarder or anything else…I’d go more with the narcissism thing.
Classic narcissistic personality disorder. If I may quote from the good diagnostic book:
“The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes”
If the shoe fits…
Somecowgirl, I also think that getting “hoarding” into the code book was a mistake because it affords an excuse that goes something like this: “oh pity poor me and help me and fund me because I am ill – see it says right here that I’m mentally ill so you have to do what I say and help me and gimme money because poor me, I can’t help myself.” I don’t think that the majority of these cases we’re seeing so many of are truly “mentally ill” they are just sociopaths copping a pseudo-disease to get sympathy and afford themselves attention from and control over others. I think I posted last year some time about the Arabian breeder in Maple Valley, King County, Washington, whose horses after 30 plus years of King County’s largely lackadaisical “efforts” were finally impounded and most sent to slaughter – the couple who were doing this had managed to obtain free labor, money, hay donations, farrier donations, and endless free Church meals by whining like this. NO sympathy. If that makes me socially insensitive, so be it. I have no time for the hoarders, legitimate or not.
Somecowgirl, do you know this gal personally? Let’s not add NPD to the list of “automatic diagnoses” of abusers.
NPD is very hard to recognize in someone unless you’ve had many dealings with them.
I can’t see ANY evidence in the blog, or the articles, of NPD. Much more info is needed. Check this site for more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_recognize_a_narcissist
Now, if she spends most of her $70,000-odd income on the horses, I’d say she doesn’t have NPD. If she spends it on herself, that *can* be *one* symptom of NPD.
Hoarders have three problems:
1. They think that death is worse than horrible living conditions.
2. They think nobody except them can care for their animals.
3. They will never turn down a new animal.
I’d have to know a whole lot more about her before I’d diagnose her as anything but “someone who got in too deep.”
We don’t have any information on *why* she let things go so far.
Has she shown up anywhere begging for funds? I’m the kind of person who hates asking for help. I’ve been known to put it off way too long, especially before I turned 40.
Ruthie
Wow. Unbelievable. I don’t even know where to begin.
That poor thing in the first picture really needs some TLC. Is its hair missing because of lice? That’s what it looks like. Poor baby.
She has so many stallions….what exactly have any of them achieved? It looks to me like she’s standing them because of color, and claims that at least two of them are homozygous. I wonder if she even knows what that means? The first stallion is showing in a Wester Pleasure class and he looks like he’s racing around the arena.
And why is it people like her always have the nicer facilities? What I wouldn’t give for a place like that, or even half the size!
Gotta be the only douchebag in the world offering reduced stud fees to grade mares.
Oh, Crissy, I wish. Unfortunately the web is full of similar douchebags.
and again…THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A PROBLEM…
Seriously, it’s everywhere. The exact phrases “reduced stud fee due to economy” and “reduced fee for grade mares.” I don’t know much about breeding, but I do know it’s failed to stimulate the economy.
Not entirely true. We haven’t heard from the Studs yet.
Holy crap. The horse with mange (pictured here on Fugly’s blog) is really scaring me. I hope that one makes it through – that CAN’T be comfortable.
Sign #32 that you should geld your stallion: When the stud ad includes ‘He is also Broke to Ride’. (In the ad for Sgt Poco Steel Dust, 6th down the page.)
Reason #33 that you should geld your stallion.
His ONLY accomplishment is that he “leads, loads, stands for the vet/farrier”
I’ve seen ad’s lately that read just that…no other accomplishment
Terrible, terrible, terrible…I hope she gets what she deserves and the horses get the care they need
Some of the stallions she has photographed look really pretty…if not for the fact that those are probably the ones that were taken by Animal Control. I pray that someone will find those horses and get them back to a better condition and actually take care of them! No animal deserves a life like this. As quoted by the officer and reporter “you can smell the infection in the air”. That’s pretty bad. I have never heard of such a condition anywhere with such a description. No hospital, vet office, medical facility, etc. has ever been that bad…and if it were, you can bet there would be an investigation as to why.
And, holy crap! What I would give to have that facility (in good condition, of course)! I mean, if she tries to sell it now, it would probably be three times less than what its worth due to the fact that there’s neglect galore. I will never understand how a person can own a house with any amount of animals and simply leave it in filth. I’m in the process of moving and its driving me nuts how messy it can get.
When I owned Bear, my old horse, I could not stand leaving him in any sort of filith. If he had a lesson, I would clean his stall. I went to the stable every day (yes, I boarded him and they cleaned the stalls) groomed him and cleaned his stall. The staff appreciated the latter. I hated the idea of seeing my horse covered in dirt and manure; that was my horse! I didn’t want to brag about my horse only to have people comment on the fact that he’s dirty and living in filth. I don’t see how anyone would want to do that! If I ever have more horses than I can care for (for some reason…) then it must be time to sell some or get help, mentally or physically. She practically lives on a facility and I have never in my life seen a horse facility of over twenty-five horses without any help. A hundred-and-sixteen horses, two living in a trailer that were half wild and deathly ill and the others running amok or trapped in stalls. Those poor horses! The two in the trailer were living in darkness; I know I would be pretty wild if that were me! I hope this woman goes to prison and then receives a ban on owning any animals. Am I correct in saying once an abuser, always an abuser despite what you’re abusing? Hmm…can’t have horses. Guess I’ll become a dog breeder and trainer! Everyone loves puppies! *bashes head into wall* Am I right, though? You can’t own, breed, show, or train horses anymore so then you go to the next best thing, right?
As for horse breeding, I don’t think people realize what they’re getting into when it comes to breeding horses. Same as dogs and cats; everyone thinks ‘Aww, they’re so cute as widdle babies! I should breed them, then sell them to make money!’ and then they realize they actually have to take those babies to the vet, get them their shots, make sure mom is okay, start training those babies, FEED THEM, and actually have the space for them. That’s with any animals of any shape or size. I refuse to breed any of my cats or dogs because a) there’s a huge abundance of both in animal shelters that are in need of homes and I refuse to contribute to the number of those animals, b) one puppy/kitten is hard enough to train; I don’t want to attempt more than one at the same time, c) where will those animals go once they grow up? What if no one buys them? I definitely could not keep up with those numbers. And, since I’m moving to an apartment, I have no chance of breeding animals. As with horses, you start with two, breed them and have three. If you have the space for it, that’s fine. This is where, I personally think, people get stupid; you’ve actually got to train that cute little foal. And guess what, that animal will probably way three times as much as you will and might cause more damage to you than a puppy. You’ve got to wean the foal, halter break it, trailer break it, then you’ve got to actually begin to train it under saddle, teach it ques in whatever you’re doing, etc. I’ve never trained a horse, so I could have missed something in that. Its not easy and, if you don’t know what you’re doing, you can easily ruin a horse with bad training. That’s how most vices begin. Oh, and on top of all of that, you’ve got to take care of your other two horses. Then, if you decide to sell for whatever reason, you better have well trained horse for sale at a real price. No one’s going to want your half-wild grade horse for $10,000 but you also do want to put it up for ‘free’ because that’s how horses end up in conditions like the blog posted today. Think before you breed! Its not that hard! And, on top of that, think before you buy/rescue a horse! Do you have the space, time, and money? If not for space or time, do you know of a good place to board your horse? Have you done a background check on this stable? Be smart about animals of any species so we don’t have any more situations like this.
And that is a wall of text. Sorry…had to let that out…
What is sad is that I cant tell you how many people called the Sheriff on her, including me, numerous times. And they are just now doing something about it. She had a horse at fair last year that kept collapsing and they just kept on showing it. Her horses are always “rescues”. Bull crap. She is just a waste of space. Her and her cronies.
This is not the first time I’ve heard that sick, skinny or injured horses are ignored at 4-H competitions. Why is that?
Is everybody really too big of a chicken shit to say anything? I mean, COLLAPSING? Really? It’s not like it’s a judgment call that a horse like that shouldn’t be competing.
Yup! I was there that day too, paint mare kept collapsing and not able to get up. They still show her BTW. I looked her up on APHA and she had around 7 owners and was only 6 I think? She had been shown HUS before, but always different riders, sounds like something was wrong with her, hence why she was passed around so much. I was surprised no one said anything, for the poor horses sake.
OK, that is flat out insane. If you – ANY of you – see something like that at any kind of equine event, VIDEO IT FOR ME.
If show management will not enforce crap like this, I will at least make them infamous for it.
HYPP, maybe?
Or EPM. That was my other thought.
At least if it was HYPP you would know how to deal with it, but no, the mare that continually collapses is not Impressive bred. This is her, notice the thin neck and under muscled rear end? Classic Tania horse.
I just might take you up on that if I ever see it again…I was at a show where a similar situation with a BYB happened (brought grade ponies to a BREED show to sell! How stupid is that? And didn’t even bring hay with for a three day show!). Show management’s reason for not banning the colicking animal out of the show: it was “only doing a couple of classes” and they didn’t want to “alienate” the owner. I was all for alienating her, she was the downfall of the entire show…if it was wrong, her, her kids or her loose dog (Yes! Loose dog!) were doing it! I would have LOVED to “alienate” her, and in fact I tried to by chewing her kid out in front of everyone…know what she said? “I would do better than that.” I said, “If I do more than that I’ll be in jail.” What a nut!
So, I hope you are serious about wanting those videos, because people just might start sending them in…
Absolutely serious. Give me the show, location, show’s web site if applicable so I know who ran the damn thing…I’ll always take video of (a) obvious abuse like someone beating the crap out of a horse in the warm-up ring or (b) horse that is severely lame or falls during a performance class or (c) of course – HYPP attack in a halter class is the jackpot!
I’ll post ‘em. I mean, if the person excuses themselves in the case of (b), then be fair and don’t send them in, it could have been a surprise to them that anything was wrong with the horse. But if they continue showing and working the horse after an incident like that, by all means, send it in.
If my phone hadn’t been dead the other weekend, I might just have posted some video of a shitfaced-drunk trainer at a horseshow. He had clients in the arena trying to warm up, and dude could NOT walk a straight line. Sheesh, we all like to have a good time, but when people are paying for your time, you need to be sober and paying attention just like any other job.
fhotd says: “If my phone hadn’t been dead the other weekend, I might just have posted some video of a shitfaced-drunk trainer at a horseshow.”
Oh dear, I’m wondering if we were at the same show. My barn owner’s trainer is a “recovering” alcoholic and he apparently had a relapse at our show last weekend. I wasn’t there to see it but I heard it was pretty bad. I met him for the first time the next day and he looked pretty hung over.
Several years ago, at our local Fair, I told a young 4H girl that it looked like her horse could use some more groceries. It was a BC of 2 and she was riding it all day in the show. Well, later that afternoon, I got an ear full from “Mom” on how I should just mind my own business and they feed their horses and blah blah blah.
Then next year, same girl, different horse….wasn’t long before that horse also looked like the prior horse.
When I brought it to the attention of the “leaders”, no one did crap, said crap or anything.
Last year, I also witnessed a local Barrel Club condone repeated gut kicking of a horse at an event, in plain sight. I reported it and they did NOTHING.
Folks are afraid to speak up, maybe they don’t want to rock the boat, maybe they are friends of those people? I have no clue….but I won’t participate where this crap is condoned!!
Carrie Giannandrea
Dances with Horses
Formula One Farms
Funny I remember another girls horse was tieing up. They took it to the vet and the brought it back for her class… The black and white mare was not even that bad in comparison. She triped once that was it. Its acctualy a really nice mare, I watched it show. And I think she is like 16 not 6.
I know someone who reported her 2 months ago. The local law did nothing. She called me to see how to get them to act. I suggested she e-mail Oregon Humane Society’s humane enforcement officers. Answer: they can’t go in unless invited by local law enforcement.
This is a picture of a mare purchased based on a photo of a sleek, beautiful horse from her website: (photo that was included with the complaints sent 11/21/2009)
The buyer then sent the horse back!!!!!!!
Clarifying: the buyer was a third party – not the two of us trying to get action taken on this obvious neglect case.
Anyone know the name of that horse in the picture? Or the age?
The name on the photo I was sent was Bunny. No full name or age.
I couldn’t send that horse back if I was the buyer. That’s a guaranteed death sentence.
Revolting that anyone would sell a horse in that condition (grabbing a pitchfork and headed south). What a sick-F.
If I had paid good money for it, yes, I’d have sent it back, I have done in the past.
If you have paid out all you have in the world, well, not all of us are made the same way, I’m afraid.
If there was any way I could hang on to the horse without paying for it, no, it would go nowhere, she could sue me for the money, and I would have been happy to foot the bill for it’s rehab.
Disgusting. It blows me away that people constantly get away with this garbage.
***IMPORTANT*** Fugly can you let everyone know in one your your next blog entries, there’s going to be an auction south of Calgary, Alberta on January 27th at 1pm. The SPCA has three different seizures worth of horses that they are going to be autioning off that day. The auction will be at the Highwood Auction Mart near High River, Alberta. I know one of the seizures consists of fairly well bred Thoroughbreds (weanlings – broodmares, maybe a stallion? not sure). These horses will likely go to slaughter if they don’t find homes. Horse prices at auctions are RIDICULOUSLY cheap up here for even papered stock (thik $30 for a papered weanling).
Hate to tell ya, but they’re ridiculously cheap *everywhere* right now. Not trying to diminish what the SPCA is doing, or others’ efforts trying to save them, but it’s a fact that saddles are selling for more than many horses at many auctions right now, and I’m at least two thousand miles away from there. Anyone going to an auction right now should take care to lock their trailer, because I know of someone at a local auction who wound up with someone else’s three unsold horses abandoned in their unlocked trailer. On another sale date, they were literally asking if anyone would like to take horses off their hands while in the ring, after the horses didn’t sell.
Uggghhh…I sold this woman a QH mare several years ago, immediately felt bad about it and tried to track her down. She was older, 19-ish at the time, and I should have just kept her. She said she had a good ‘trail home’ for her. This was before I did contracts. I’ll post a pic and if anyone sees her, I will take/buy her back. Her name was Rocket. She’d be 24-ish now. Sorrel, blaze, 15hh. I know, real desriptive. I’ll get a picture up. She was slightly arthritic in the front, which is why I was trying to find a light duty home for her. Tania, in emails, was only able to say she went to a nice lady. Maybe she did…
Is it the direct link for photos?
ljbrooks, I hope for the best for you … at least it doesn’t sound like this woman ever sold anything to the kill. Pretty horse. I am sorry you had to find out your buyer is a fugly feature! People are saying she was a legitimate trainer and seller at one time, though.
If this blog has done anything (and I think it’s done a lot), its shown people that when you sell a horse, there’s little guarantee the home promised is actually where a horse ends up. Glad you have a contract now for a sale … even then, they are hard to enforce. I know if I sell again I will be a lot more vigilant where my horse goes.
I’m so glad that she is finally getting busted. I bought a colt from her once. I was looking for a project and she was selling a registered colt that was in my price range. Here’s the picture she sent me of him:
Of course I had to go buy him after seeing that picture. I got him home, dewormed, deloused, vaccinated, and trimmed. The farrier called him “Skis” because of the length of his hooves. He had balls of manure/mud stuck to his belly that took me weeks to get off him.
I had him for 8 months and decided to sell him. He’s the only horse I have regretted selling. I really wish I would have hung on to him. Here are pictures of him that I took just before I sold him:
Unfortunately, sometimes I think the condition is used as a sales tactic by these people. They start to realize that people will give them money just to ransom the horse away from them and fix it! I’m not faulting you, I’ve done it too.
I saw nothing on her web site that would tempt me to buy or breed, other than her b&w pony stallion. Him, I liked. What’s up with the pasterns and hoof angles on that palomino pony stallion – super long flat pastures up on clubbed feet – yikes. Someone should forward the photos of the little girls riding with no helmet, no hands, in saddles too big for them, and hanging over the backend of some poor long suffering, very unhappy looking horse, to their local 4-H office. I am sure they’d be interested in knowing how their advisors are teaching kids.
This is a good question:
Is the 4-H helmet rule ONLY for events? Or is the expectation that a 4-H leader requires helmets during lessons, too?
The 4-H leaders are supposed to enforce the helmet rule at meetings/rides as well. What would be the point of teaching your kids its only appropriate to be safe in the show ring, and not when at home practicing?! When I was in 4-H My leaders ALWAYS made me wear helmets, and it has saved me on multiple occasions.
When I was 4-H I ALWAYS wore a helmet. I boarded at my 4-H leaders barn (or their were 4-H leaders at my barn) and if I got caught without, boy did I get a butt chewing. That and the rules at EVERY single stable I boarded at was if you were under 18 (wait one was 16) Wearing a helmet wasn’t optional. That and 4H rules state your kids in your group are supposed to wear a helmet ANY time they are mounted.
My personal rule is if you are under 18 you wear a helmet. If you are a beginner (under 3 years experience) you wear a helmet. If you are riding a green horse you wear a helmet. No excuses, no exceptions.
I choose not too unless im jumping, riding a green horse, or an idiot horse. My own choice. But kids? They wear it no matter what.
Helmet rules through 4-H vary by state. I live in Vermont, and 4-H requires ASTM/SEI approved helmets for all participants in ALL 4-H events with horses. In Vermont the 4-H program is fantastic! We’re a small state, so I think that helps, but I certainly have never experienced some of the awful things some of you have described. 4-H is all about educating people about horse care and well being, and I honestly see that being upheld at all 4-H events here in Vermont. I have never seen the abuse, neglect, or gross ignorance that some of you have seen. I spent years in 4-H and learned so much because of it, and it makes me so mad when stupid people like Tania and others drag its name through the mud. Please don’t allow asshats like this one drive you away from 4-H, it really does have so much to offer to all participants!
I want to expand on my comment a bit, ASTM/SEI approved helmets are required for all six New England states, not just Vermont.
It just ticks me off that she may only get a wrist slap for this. But I have an idea at least we can have control on getting it out there what she did and hopefully prevent her from doing it again. Get on every horse blog facebook myspace you can and tell the story of what she did. Email your friends. You will be amazed at how quickly it will spread. We can out her to the horse world so that everyone will remember her name it can be know in every state. Come on if we all do it the word will spread.
This is the second horse person (if you even want to call her that which I don’t) That I have heard of in the last month who was known in the community who has done this. It disgust me. I just wish I had more property and the funds to help. I adopted a colt from the burns rescue. I have three horses and that is my limit. I know that all the rescues are at there max. That is part of the problem of getting help for the horses. They need land foster homes somewhere to put them.
Ok just came up with another idea. If you are tired of people getting away with this. why not create a wall of shame. A web page or a blog stating there name state and pic if we can find one and what they did. That way we can keep there name fresh in peoples mind so they won’t forget and they can’t do it again.
HOLY CRAP!!!!
I’ve seen her at auctions for YEARS. We call her “Scummy Horse Trader Girl”. That’s how DH and I refer to her, anyway. I did finally figure out her name a few years ago.
She always brings in scrawny horses and gets squat for them. The only nice horse I’ve ever seen her bring to a sale, we bought (MANY years ago) and once we got him home, it was VERY clear he had been drugged at the sale. He was sooooo quiet and sweet at the sale — and so bananas ever after.
Wow. Just wow.
Why does this not surprise me?
She’s been known to ace/bute them when people look at them and sell them as ‘dead broke’ and then they are nuts after it wears off. Also, she has no job! The horse “training” and trading WAS her job! Woa-is her, what shall she do now? Get a real job like the rest of us? Hmm. ALSO! It was the front page of our newspaper here in Linn County today, thankfully. Word will spread!
She may have learned many of her “tricks of the trade” from the psychotic woman who owns the place she used to board her horses at. She doesn’t take much better care of her animals. Just only puts the healthy ones out where the sheriff can see them. It is about time something happened. I don’t guess you have to worry about seeing her at any auctions any time soon!
I lived on a ranch where she kept horses for a year a couple years ago. Conditions were not that bad, but they weren’t pretty for sure. I helped “clean” stalls for her for about a week. They all had at least 8 inches of shit piled up and she basically wanted to scrape the top layer off and call it good. And it’s true, if it has a uterus, she probably has it knocked up. Things were not nearly to the degree I see they got to, but not knowing anything about horses, they could have been much worse, and I now suspect they were much worse than they seemed. I only wish now I would have made some phone calls to remedy the problem then before so many more animals had to suffer at her hand.
This story was rather depressing, so allow me to cheer you up…
YOU, TOO, CAN OWN YOUR OWN “ARABIAN SADDLE BREED” !!! WTF?
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/1559850403.html –And she’s “ground broken” to boot!!
And, on another depressing note…
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/1524819080.html “n ive decided to keep the old (because 15 is ANCIENT) quarter horse cause i done bred her to uncle billys strawberry cremello tobiano big stud horse foal in utero for sell or trade parts for 1987 chevy s10 for $50 i will breed the 1yr paint to the belgium for you”
WHY, OH, WHY. Anybody want to upgrade these poor animals?
This is happening more and more all across the country. 117 is a LOT of horses. It breaks my heart.
Here’s an article about a guy who abandoned his horses near me. His farm backs up to the farm my horse lives on (there are a few acres of woods in between, we can not see his farm) and one of his horses escaped in April. We caught her and still have here. There is a slide show of pictures with the artcle. Be warned, they are a bit graphic. The horse under the tarp is only 2. I’m sure there would have been more evidence and more pictures, but there is a pack of coyotes running rampant over there. Probably feeding on starving horses, or at least they were.
Forgot the link, sorry.
http://www.examiner.com/x-15114-Cincinnati-Pet-News-Examiner~y2009m12d29-Police-looking-for-man-who-allegedly-left-horses-to-starve-die
Fugly, my very good friend’s father is a State Circuit Judge in Salem. I will ask him who folks should talk to that can supply the most influence regarding this situation.
1. I woudl LOVE to have that property with oh, about 15 horses.
2. When will people learn just because it has balls doesn’t mean it has to breed. I’ve never owned a stallion, but I somehow think it is MUCH cheaper to geld a stallion then to take care of the mare during and after foaling. OH WAIT, the people with the crappy stallions don’t take care of their mares.
3. That poor horse with mange. It makes me so angry. For all the horses who are “saved” from situations like this there are HUNDRED of other ones who are in the same situation in someone’s backyard. Poor things.
I’d love to breed my mare, she has amazing bloodlines for a TB, BUT I wouldn’t be breeding a horse to race, so what’s that point? I’ll save myself the 2 years of dealing with a foal and buy one who was started correctly when I’m ready.
Poor horses. I hope she gets it!!
http://www.wildponybeast.blogspot.com
Good gods, at first glance I thought that first picture was of a llama. Now that might speak volumes about my current level of sleep deprivation but it doesn’t say much good about the poor creature either. Poor thing. Hope she gets what she deserves in terms of legal trouble.
1st off the grulla you people say is dead is NOT! So before you go talking out of your ass have the facts correct. 2nd I bought a horse and a few days later it got a snotty nose and full blown strangles. You dont know if a horse has been exposed before it is to late it happens! 3rd I agree the Bashkir Curly is ugly, but she doesnt have mange! The horse cant help it, so talk shit about the person who bred to get that mare not the one who took her in when no one else would. It is easy to cast stones and point fingers these days with the economy some people are more fortunate then others. So I wonder how many of you finger pointers and shit talkers offered to help? My guess would be none!
Really? Can you provide a recent picture of the grulla?
What do you think IS wrong with the horse in the first pic? Bashkir Curlies don’t have bald spots, I’m pretty sure.
This doesn’t have anything to do with being FORTUNATE. It has to be with being an IDIOT who collected over 100 horses. The rest of us are FORTUNATE enough to have more common sense than to do that when we make (by her own admission) $45-$60K per year. Our horses are FORTUNATE we’re not IDIOTS.
Taking a horse in when no one else will IS NOT A GOOD THING if you can’t afford to properly care for them. It is a bad thing. What part of this confuses you?
Actually, sometimes they do, Fugly…for short periods of time during the spring shed. They shed out the winter coat before the summer coat has come through. That curly is extremely curly and has no mane…indicating that she might well be prone to that. So IF that picture was taken at the right time of year, it MIGHT be weird curly shed patterning, not mange. Or it might not. It’s a pretty rare phenomenon, but it does happen.
Which does not change the fact that she is underweight and desperately searching for just one blade of grass in horse sick pasture.
According to the KATU site, that photo was taken by reporter Thom Jensen, who was there covering the story while the animals were being removed from the property. So that photo was taken in the past few days, probably within the last 48 hours, as the photos were posted on Thursday.
http://salem.katu.com/content/katu-scene-search-warrant-served-mill-city-horse-breeder.
In that case, it’s definitely not Curly shed syndrome, as it were…far too early in the year. It could also be thyroid problems. Or Fugly was right all along.
Either way…I MIGHT turn a goat out on that pasture. Maybe. Certainly not a horse. Not without lots of nice, quality hay.
Between my husband and I, we pull down a comfortable living, and have only 5 horses on our own 5 acre piece of property. I love horses, I’d have more, which is intentionally why I built myself a 6-stall barn (one stall is the winter home for my goats). I want to be able to pay all my bills, have my stallion in training, and still put away a chunk of change every month as a rainy day fund.
Am I the perfect horse owner? Not by any means; sometimes I make mistakes. I am still learning. As I’ve discovered, owning horses is a life-long learning process. This blog has helped me become a better horse person. But my horses have always been healthy, loved, and safe. I cannot imagine having so many horses that I could not feed them. Even when times were lean because my husband was out of work for a few months, I always made sure I had my hay bill covered. Even before my own meals.
Animals don’t get a choice. They are totally dependent on their owners. So when times are tough, you have to put their needs before yours. If that means selling off personal items or getting a second job to cover their necessities, so be it. I would give my own horses away before seeing them suffer from strangles and mange with nothing to eat. I cannot fathom what this person was thinking. Honestly, I’d like to hear truly what happened. Not a sob story (which is likely all that anybody would hear), but how the animals got this way and what her real thought process was to keeping them all instead of asking for help.
My mistake, I have been clarified, the grulla IS still alive, it was a Cremello/palomino stallion that randomly died, I guess there were so many stallions it was easy to get them mixed up! AHats! *rolls eyes*
I think the nut who was so defensive should be told IT DOESN’T MATTER. A dead horse is still a dead horse, no matter what color it is. And MANY of us on here have taken in unwanted/abandoned/abused/starved horses, or I doubt we would be so vehemently following this blog.
So, are you the same one, kkh12, who is defending her on KATU’s site?
This mess is NOT simply unfortunate!
People who take care of their animals and have no more than they can afford are not fortunate, they are SANE!
100% sure kkh12 is her friend Kasey Hull of http://www.northpointranch.info. funny she defends her but won’t post her name! Everyone in the valley should stay away from her too!
How dare you defend what she did! I will point a finger and I will be a shit talker! You are as nuts as she is! Are you trying to excuse what she did? There is no excuse for starving an animal! If you can’t feed it by God get the word out! Start selling your stuff! I would be screaming from the top of my lungs for help.
There are rescues that you could turn to. Hell do a fundraiser don’t just let it happen. Makes me sick to my stomach! 100 horse are you insane?
http://www.itsmysite.com/cgi-bin/itsmy/go.exe?page=3&domain=1&webdir=cross-tieranch
Scroll to the bottom to see our wonderful parenting. Kid hanging off the back end, toddler riding bareback with NO HELMET, a kid doing barrels, with no helmet.. Doesn’t suprise me a bit…
Wow…and on one of the horses, it says he is one of the very few in the Midwest! NEWSFLASH – I’d love to tell this person that they don’t have ANYTHING on their site, including tack, that can’t be picked up at the auction 20 miles from here and by the trailer load! Carbon copies by the dozen!
Just to clear up a few things it is not the Sheriff’s Office that does not want to prosecute these cases it is the DA’s office. They do not want to prosecute any abuse/neglect cases. There have been several cases where animals were seized, re-habilitated and then the case was dismissed by the DA and the animals were returned (in much better shape than when they left) and then were seizing again with in two years. The Linn County Sheriff’s Office is very dedicated to animal abuse/neglect and they were out at Tania Herring’s place many times to talk with her. The Sheriff’s Office’s hands are tied when they do not have the backing of the DA. In order to seize animals you much have a search warrant with probable cause for a judge to even sign it. And in most cases there has to be a death of an animal for actions to be taken. It is sad, but true.
If you really want to make sure that Tania does not get a chance to own any more animals please contact the Linn County DA’s office and apply pressure there where it needs to be applied. The Linn Count Sheriff’s Office would appreciate any help they can get with stopping people who abuse and neglect any animal.
Jason Carlile
300 4th AVe. SW, Room 100
PO Box 100
Albany, OR 97321
District Attorney (541) 967-3836
Oh and there many more fugley studs on the property than just the ones she has pictured on her website.
Ride4Fun, perhaps what you say is indeed the case in Linn County, Oregon. My direct experience with other counties in Oregon and sordid tales relayed by legitimate rescue groups (of both horses and dogs) is that getting law enforcement to even come take a look is a grim and unending battle. Even when there is severe immediate abuse there is not only NO response (repeated emergency calls as the animal in question is being tortured and KILLED) but even a complete “disappearing” of the 911 dispatch records. Even with such a situation as illegals operating what all outward appearances indicate to be a dogfighting breeding/training “business” the local gendarmerie will not act because dealing peremptorily with illegals is politically incorrect. I had the same experience in Washington years ago and found getting the media involved is the only way to get the authorities to act in the first place. DAs offices are perennially underfunded and understaffed and they want their case MADE for them. How do you think that happens? It happens by law enforcement getting off their collective butts and doing their damn jobs instead of whiling away the time until they collect their PERS benefits!
I could not say about the rest of Oregon , but in Linn County our Sheirff is very pro-active in the fight against animal abuse. However the DA does not want to mess with these cases. All they see are skinny horses, they do not care or maybe they don’t know that when a horse gtets that skinny it does not talke them long to die. It is frustrating to do all the leg work and then have the DA through it out.
I’ll agree to disagree with anyone on here about the slaughter issue…I am in favor of it just as I am in favor of not making laws to prohibit abortion. No one will dissuade me on either topic. However, I have to say that I am strongly in favor of responsibility before the fact on both issues too, because I don’t believe either should be the court of first resort. I have personally never had a baby and don’t ever plan on having one…too old now…but I haven’t had one because I took responsibility for myself before pregnancy ever became a question. Like these breeders should for their animals.
But that is not why I am posting, to make or break either political argument…why I am posting is to provide you with a link, http://www.archive.org – this link will allow you to pull up any webpage that has been up long enough to be crawled by a search engine and archived by this archive. They have millions of web pages logged, and you can view them if they were up long enough, even if the site owner has taken them down. I think these people should be made to wallow in shame for what they do, and this will allow you to look at their dirty laundry even if they take their site down. It is this type of wanna-be that ruins the industry for everyone else, so please use this link to keep the wall of shame going.
I think it is just NUTS to breed “Quarter Ponies”…the auctions are FULL of them! Course, I think it is pretty stupid to be breeding these warmblood “sport ponies” too…just another excuse to breed whatever is sitting around on the farm rather than spend effort developing a legit bloodline. I personally have some really “black-type” purebreds and I am NOT breeding them until I see a market back in place where I can get what they are worth, which is certainly not now. It’s too bad, but the fact that I have a rare breed that has faced extinction twice with super lines that are hard to come by and have produced super foals before does not mean I need to send more horses out into the world until they can be properly cared for and appreciated again. These can be enjoyed just fine without having babies.
Another one. Don’t you get that slaughter is NOT humane euthanasia? Have you educated yourself fully on the topic before making up your mind? How much more cruel, terrifying and agonizing does human treatment of horses have to get before you understand that slaughter and transport to slaughter does not solve the so-called “unwanted horse” problem???
I don’t think you understand what Potionsmage is saying.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Potiosnmage, but I think her point is that there is a market for horse meat, and by making it illegal, the care of horses that are going to slaughter is poor. Because Horse Slaughter is illegal in the US, they have to be shipped to Mexico or Canada. It’s like many things that are made illegal. The black-market is way worse than a legalized, regulated and overseen market would every be.
I personally would never eat horse knowingly. But there are plenty of people who think of cows as a sacred animal and are probably appalled that I eat cows.
I think that things would be much better for horses that go to slaughter if it was legalized. Who are we to think down of those who eat horse, just because we love them so much. There clearly is a market for it. It’s a bit ridiculous to say that euthanasia is better then slaughter. Euthing and disposing of “horsemeat” is wasteful when people will eat it.
But, I want to be clear that I DO NOT support poor treatment of any food animal. I do not support pets and privately owned horses being stolen for the horsemeat industry. I DO NOT support doubledecker horse shipping outfits.
That *is* a large portion of how I feel, yes. As we all know, Prohibition did nothing to help the alcohol situation in this country, either. The thing about Canada and Mexico is a very valid point.
And no, I don’t support cruel treatment of any slaughter animal or the double decker trucks. I have seen them load horses out of a kill pen at auctions up a deck and onto a semi, and frankly I have never seen horses loaded double-stacked at these. Knowing semi trailers as I do, I don’t even know how it is possible to get draft horses loaded into a double-decker, like happened here in Illinois. Anyone looking at the back of a cattle/sheep truck and the height on the back door and decks would wonder how that could be possible. But they must manage it somehow or it would not have created the backlash that it did, and should.
Don’t label me as “another one”, Sunvalleysally. I fully understand every aspect of the industry and witnessed for myself the slaughter process, unannounced, at the DeKalb plant before it was closed. I saw no evidence that they staged a “visitor’s day” for my or anyone else’s viewing; I went at busy times like any other with slaughter trucks lined up and waiting to unload. I went there in person to make up my mind rather than listen to other people rant on the subject either which way. I wonder how many others do the same?
Slaughter of anything, in any way, can never be called pretty. It is a shame that not all animals can be cared for all of their lives in loving homes that want, feed, train and care about them. There are many reasons/lines of thinking for it and against it, but that does not alter my personal decision on it or the way that I vote. You can feel free to rant at me as much as you like, but that will not change my opinion. I have heard, read and seen about every argument for and against it that there is. So that is all I will say on the subject because I personally feel, for myself, there are more constructive ways to use this blog that talk on that same issue time and time again.
I am actually 100% in agreement with you. I do not wish to sidetrack this thread as I think it is important to stay focused on this one. Maybe Cathy would open up the blog for (an attempt at) a discussion on the subject of slaughter, some time?
I really do believe that by sweeping the problem under the carpet the US has condemned these animals to a living hell that does not even, in a lot of cases, end in a humane death. If the government had kept the slaughter houses open and enforced the laws that already exist, stringently, and tightened up the news that needed tightening, and even made new legislation, a lot of slaughter houses would have gone out of business as they can only make a profit by inhumane methods, and others would have got in line.
It is NOT “pie in the sky” it can be done.
It has been done in the UK, BUT as a result, most of the “for human consumption” slaughter houses have gone out of business, and we have to pay the knacker to come (although it is still one hell of a lot cheaper than having one of those ludicrous “Equine Funeral” things!!) My knacker charges $80.00 for destruction and removal , on the property, he deals in NO live stock any more, so does not have a slaughter house.
I also have to say that, in my younger days, when I was actively involved in breaking and schooling and selling for profit, most, if not all, my ponies came form my local canker man!! He used to drop anything he thought worthwhile off at my farm.
Sorry, I have NO idea what is happening with spellcheck today!!!
That was meant to be “knacker man” there where it says “canker”
And myriad other small mistakes.
God, I wish we could edit our posts!!!!
I was FW’d this post today. I tried to buy ( yes buy ) a pony from this woman about 3 weeks ago I found her ad on craigslist….suprise….I knew the breeder of the mare she had for sale and knew she wouldn’t want this woman to have her so I offered her $50 less than her asking price and she wouldn’t take it…….I never heard back from her even though I tried to cantact her and even offered to pick the mare up…I would like to know where the mare is now because I know that her breeder would not want her there. I have contacted Linn county Animal rescue and our local rescue facility to see if she shows up….so sad
I have to say that I think Craigslist takes a rather undeserved bad rap in all this…I mean, come on people, they run the ads for FREE. I have been on enough forums and even run one of my own that I can tell you, anytime you offer anything for free, you will get nuts or trolls using it. I have bought some very nice items on Craigslist and am offering something for sale myself, and I know a lot of people who use it regularly for the same. I personally think it is nice that they offer a free service people can use. If the nuts don’t post there, they will just go somewhere else…I don’t think Craigslist needs to police their site to weed out nuts either. They seem to do just fine outing themselves.
KLB, we know all that we need to know. I don’t know how nice she is or how good a trainer, and I don’t care. I know that she hasn’t been caring for her horses, to the point that at least 40 were genuinely starving.
“Mueller said the animals will be evaluated on a scale of zero to 10. Animals that are rated 10 are considered obese and those rated zero are those that have died of starvation. He said those rated one and two will be put into foster care to be rehabilitated.
Mueller said that as many as 40 of the horses will need new homes, but he worries about those left behind. Because of the large numbers of animals, rescuers won’t be able to take all of them, he said.”
That means around 40 horses are scaled 1 & 2. Starving. Where were you when they were losing condition, KLB? What did you do to help? Did you even say anything?
Waving off the wrackspurts, Ruthie
GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY. This is just … well, you’ve all said it all.
Sadly, 4H is kind of a laissez faire organization when it comes to leaders. When I became an official volunteer last year, I had to submit info for a criminal BG check, and get a couple of references, for the state (Purdue University here) office.
They’ve quit requiring demonstrations.
They no longer require anyone to qualify for State Fair (formerly the role of the County Fair). Anyone can just show up.
Unless you do Judging or Horse Bowl, there’s precious little education going on unless you’re lucky enough to belong to a club that encourages it.
We do business meetings once a month in the winter, then in spring & summer we have weekly riding meetings, which is like a ginormous group riding lesson.
I think that Pony Club has it ALL OVER 4H when it comes to real education & promoting excellence for young horsemen.
But I do what I can, and we’ve got good leaders in my club. I’m working with the Mini kids, and will be researching age-appropriate materials for them.
Nope, you don’t need ANY credentials to be a 4H leader. I might get myself involved at the state level someday when my daughter is older, if only to push for higher educational standards.
OMG. That black stallion… ANY Arabian trainer or breeder shies away from black horses because of all of the whackadoos who breed for black!!! There is no mention of pedigree or show ring success, only the “kiss of death” phrase, homozygous black. That phrase right there screams poor quality horse who happens to be black and now let’s breed it. AND THEN she even says that he looks like Walter Farley’s blck stallion. headdesk, headdesk, headdesk. This kind of breeding is why people get the idea that Arabians are tiny little crappy movers with no athletic ability who are most likely nutso. I bet she even tells all of her friends how he is SO valuable because he is straight Egyptian, which doesn’t mean squat!
She brags about homozygous this and that…these are the kind of horses I coined the term “hideozygous” to apply to. They are ONLY studs because they can genetically guarantee color…that is the ONLY reason.
Ugh. I would love for just a few months to go by without this kind of new coming out. Seriously. I’m especially sick of the so-called rescues that are really just hoarders. I don’t care whether your intentions were good or not, sometimes you have to say NO. Anyone who rescues has to learn that eventually.
And for the obligatory OT part of my comment, check out this person who is apparently morally against castrating their animals… and oh, touching them every now and then.
http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/zip/1560196152.html
“Does not do well with ferries”
Only ferries? Or with water-going vessels of all kinds?
Sounds like this one is going to need a whole team of wranglers, not just one hand on a horse. It begs the question of how they dragged it home in the first place. Doesn’t this just scream for anyone to go out and have either themselves, their best mount, or both dragged/beaten to death by a rank donkey? Just because you *might* be able to breed a mule?
I had to run out of the house to tell my husband about this as soon as I read it….. we both had the same thought. With horse prices being as LOW as they are, she’s probably bought a LOT of these at auction, really cheap, thinking she was going to be able to make a profit on them. Then, as most of us thinking people already know, she discovered the horse market is indeed in the crapper.
Though the horses I have personally seen her ride through sales have consistently not been well cared for. I remember seeing her at auctions for the last 12-15ish years, and virtually every horse I’ve ever personally seen her with has been underweight.
This story breaks my heart in more ways than one. I myself have dealt with Tania Herring and it wasn’t a good one either.
I had this great little black and what pinto gelding that wasn’t going to be any taller than thirteen hands I’m 6 foot so as you can imagine I wasn’t going to be riding him anytime soon. So I had put an ad on craigslist to either trade or buy him. Tania responded having a TB quarter horse cross and if we wanted to trade, so my mom and I drove up to her stables checked out “lil” (which is now Cinnamon) she gave us this song and dance that she was a rescue and thats why she looked the way she did. (Well rootbeer and his mother were also rescues but I kept his mom) so its no big deal.
This is the picture she sent me.
So I told her lets go ahead and trade. She came down with her stock trailer opened the door handed me the lead rope took Rootbeer from my mom loaded him up and off she went. I was like wow and my mom was like she must have wanted him.
This is what she looked like when I got her.
A few months later we started looking for another horse and I found one that Tania was selling and I called. I told her who I was and she said well he’s dead. My heart sunk to the ground. I asked her how and she said well you didn’t deworm him and I dewormed him when I got home and the week he died. I told her that I have my horses on a deworming schedule and how could that have been. She got quiet and said oh well he’s dead and thats it. I hung up on her.
Cinnamon today.
A few years down the road. The horse I ended up getting for my husband wasn’t working out for him So I decided to sell her and find him one he can handle. Tania saw my ad and contacted me about another trade, this time I told her to take a flying leap. Thats a good thing because that happened four weeks ago. I still have my horse she wanted so bad and thats fine with me my husband can just ride my horse.
So thats my story, I hope Rootbeer isn’t dead, I hope he is safe in someones pasture with a sweet little kid to love him. If he isn’t I’m sorry little buddy I did you wrong.
For those asking about people from this area reporting?
I KNOW that she has had complaints from WELL over a year go. I know because I was one.
I only know my time frame, but from what I hear it’s been going on, probably much longer.
Some of us here in the area are unhappy w/ Lane County response.
She’s had (and been flagged) horses on Craigs WAY too much.
Sad situation.
Just a thought, you may be unhappy with Lane County’s response because it was not their jurisdiction. This was in Linn County. I notice numerous complaints about lack of action. I also notice by the comments that many people are oblivious to some simple concepts such as the fourth amendment, probable cause, and evidence. All of which must be articulated in order to have a search warrant signed. They are not arbitrarily handed out. Most people are unaware of the protocol it takes in order to try to prosecute successfully a neglect case. For all of you complaining there will be just as many voices claiming her rights have been violated. Instead of complaining offer some help in financing their care, because someone has to do it right??? I know Linn County Animal Rescue will be happy to take action in their care.
Totally off topic: Ya know about half the time I log in to check this block I get a re-direct to:
http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/databases/#comments
I have virus checked til I know my computer is a clean as it can be but I keep coming up with this weird site.
Any ideas?
Have you tried clearing your cookies or Temp. Internet Files?
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Oh Good Gawd! I considered going out to look at one of her horses a couple years ago. I never actually went though because after talking to her, my husband and I decided that she was a “pony mill” and we couldn’t in all good conscious support that. A couple months later we found my Casey, who was in awful condition himself. However, his owners knew that and GAVE him to us.
Is it just me? Tania Herring keeps bringing Tonya Harding to mind.
The extreme Curly is a Baldie, but SHOULD not look like that. Proper nutrition and mane treatments will help them grow some mane. That woman has broken with reality to justify her neglecting horses. Digusting.
It’s the middle of winter. From a quick check of sites of reputable curly breeders, baldies should still have mane…and no bald spots…in the middle of winter. They lose their mane in the SPRING…something has made that horse shed out prematurely.
Maybe rainrot? Hope it doesn’t get really cold there…
Oh and google ICHO, International Curly Horse Org. They have pics of the different types of Curls. KLB may want to go there to educate themselves.
Good Lord, I thought today’s topic was alpaca abuse when I first saw that picture.
Desperate to sell the fiction that she is loved, Fugly censors anyone who questions her fugly tactics. And today on her blog, her fuglyness is on display for all to see. “Rather than arguing about how to solve the problem AFTER the fact, as in the great slaughter debate,” we should focus on solutions.
Okay, take it away fugly. What your solutions.
Fugly: “Breed more intelligently.”
Me: That’s one solution.
Fugly: No it’s two solutions. Be rude and insulting to anyone who doesn’t agree with me. I suggest use the following words/phrases, like “Thick sculls,” and “moron.”
Me: It’s interesting that you mention the word moron. You write “I am so tired of people who cannot do anything approaching simple math.” Can’t the same be said about you? Simple math suggests that the horse overpopulation is so great, that if everyone stopped breeding, it would take twenty years for the demand to outpace the supply. Conversely you continually take on small breeders and mentally ill people (clearly the woman she posted about today a mental illness called hoarding). While these people obviously contribute to the problem- I have two points here. One, when slaughter existed the number of horses needing rescued from hoarding was lower; the cheep price of horses combined with the push to save horses from death in Mexico or Canada (from people like you) has exacerbated hoarding tendencies. Point number two is that, small breeders still contribute to the overpopulation minimally. The major contributors are thoroughbred breeders, seconded by standardbred breeders. In fact the thoroughbred and standardbred industry produce enough horses to supply the United states. They only way to avoid overpopulation and leave these two industries in place, is for everyone but them to stop breeding.
You’ve yet to attack the big farms, like the bully you are, preferring to attack people weaker than yourself.
************************************************
Fugly can only manage “two” solutions. But I have several suggestions:
1. Education. 90% people she attacks are un-educated. The World Horse Welfare, attacks the issue on multiple levels. And education is a primary goal. They send experts to countries all over the world, and teach horse owners skills: harness making, farrier skills, nutrition. They don’t bring in supplies, they teach people how to innovate from the environment they live, and improve the standard of horses globally. http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/)
2. Sterilization: Much like a catch and release program, stallions and mares are bough, sterilized and released back into the general population.
3. Euthanization. Right now, rescues rarely euthanize. I propose a standard, where horses who aren’t adopted within in a specified time frame are euthanized. Anywhere from 12 to 24 months from date of rescue would be good. I also propose euthanization of all horses that requir more than two thousand dollars to rehabilitate to “adoptable.” I further propose any horse deemed un-rideable be euthanized as they are most at risk to end up in neglectful situations.
4. Breed restrictions on how many offspring from stallions and mares can be registered. For example, horses with no show record, could register five horses in a lifetime whilst horses who have significant show careers can register more offspring. The people who breed un-registered horses are going to do it anyway regardless of the rules. But Such a program would encourage showing and increase the value of registered horses.
5. Breeders must pay a disposal fee of at least $250.00 per live foal.
6. Commercial owners and breeders must pay this fee per foal and must also pay 10,000 care fee per horse they own. This recognizes that while horses are a product, they also living animals that must receive care beyond his/or her commercial value. For example, thoroughbreds average a commercial value of four years. Some are retained for breeding, but most cease to be an assets after four years. Thus breeders and owners are penalized a small fee as compared to the lifetime care of the animal which is then passed onto a certified equine rescue. This fee is tax deductible.
7. Limit on horses that one person can own. Most cities have ordinances that maximize the number of pets in a home with exceptions for breeders. A similar law needs to be implemented for all livestock.
A combination of all seven actions will lead to managed horse population. Attacking backyard breeders doesn’t do anything but make Fugly feel superior.
Actually, I don’t censor you because it’s funnier to let you talk and let you make yourself look stupid. Again, if you actually READ my blog – and by now I question whether or not you are capable of reading – you would realize all of the solutions you propose are ideas I had first or variations of ideas I had first, and have posted frequently. I’ve been talking about the need for more euthanasia and government subsidized gelding programs and a per-foal licensing fee FOREVER. As can easily be proven by using that handy-dandy “search” function.
But you don’t read, so you write things like this, and I see no reason to protect you from making yourself look stupid so therefore your post has been posted, 100% unedited, just as you wrote it.
P.S. I assume that you are NOT Ray Bixler the vet, given that you cannot spell “skulls.” I am pretty sure that would have been covered in vet school. Right?
Ha! No kidding, reading his post thinking… “Where have a heard this all before?” Oh yeah, in THIS BLOG! Goodness people.
He must have a thick ‘Scull’!
You know, I can honestly say I’ve seen some people with an MD type really casually on the computer and let things slide when they aren’t doing anything important. Maybe, if this guy is a vet, he’s doing just that…or mocking us…or he’s not really a vet. Hard to say when he won’t answer.
I don’t like the sound of #5 and #6…those imply our government can do something constructive with our user fees, and we see how that is already going. If you meant breed organizations collecting those fees, that is also something to make you go “hmmmmm….”
#7 is too darned close to NAIS for my comfort, which I am totally against. It’s all well and good about the ordinance thing, but towns can’t enforce ordinances now…if they could, would this woman have had 117 horses? I doubt it. You also can’t compare dogs or horses with say, a flock of chickens…you couldn’t just lump all animals together under one generalization because me having a flock of poultry is not the same as having that many horses or dogs on my property. And when you say “livestock”, most people who have livestock are not going to be having a stagnant herd of 117 anythings sitting around eating them out of house and home, they will be eating them or sending them to the meat locker. I know I sure don’t hear of any beef farmers around here starving 117 cattle, so like I said, lumping all animals together like that simply won’t work. And Big Government is a broken idea.
“Me: It’s interesting that you mention the word moron. You write “I am so tired of people who cannot do anything approaching simple math.†Can’t the same be said about you? Simple math suggests that the horse overpopulation is so great, that if everyone stopped breeding, it would take twenty years for the demand to outpace the supply.”
Honey Bunny,
You actually need some remedial math education as well as a grounding in facts.
If this is the case then let me give you a roster of neighbors you can call down there in OK, and why don’t you ask them why they are still spewing out foals, because Ray, you are a f%$&*#@ moron. The AQHA actually registers on average in recent years, about 150,000 foals. This does not include the ones that your neighbors are producing (yep as in 300 covers with 100-150 breeding reports) that aren’t registered. The JC registers between 30 and 35,000 TBs on average. While there are plenty of TBs that are not JC registered, the numbers actually are not on the same scale, but there are considerably fewer homes that are set up for/comfortable with taking a racing animal versus a pleasure horse. The issue is the type/temperament of the horse OTTTBs in particular, benefit from experienced owners.
“4. Breed restrictions on how many offspring from stallions and mares can be registered. For example, horses with no show record, could register five horses in a lifetime whilst horses who have significant show careers can register more offspring. The people who breed un-registered horses are going to do it anyway regardless of the rules. But Such a program would encourage showing and increase the value of registered horses.”
Here is a test question for you-how many living AQHA registered QHs do we estimate there are today? Why not call Registry Services and ask. So where are this year’s 150,000 going to go? You seem to have all the answers?
“They send experts to countries all over the world, and teach horse owners skills: harness making, farrier skills, nutrition. They don’t bring in supplies, they teach people how to innovate from the environment they live, and improve the standard of horses globally.”
That’s great, kudos to them. However, it has NOTHING to do with horse overpopulation in the US, where services are readily available as is education.
“3. Euthanization. Right now, rescues rarely euthanize. I propose a standard, where horses who aren’t adopted within in a specified time frame are euthanized. Anywhere from 12 to 24 months from date of rescue would be good. I also propose euthanization of all horses that requir more than two thousand dollars to rehabilitate to “adoptable.†I further propose any horse deemed un-rideable be euthanized as they are most at risk to end up in neglectful situations.”
Where did you get this information-do you believe it is credible? If so, then you need to spend time with some of the veterinarians serving equine rescues. It would open your eyes. By the way, I have spent well in excess of 2,000$ to rehab a horse with very minor issues that is now completely sound and a top level prospect for competition. It’s my time and energy, my investment, my personal choice, and in America, it had better damned remain that way. By the way, plenty of horses that are not candidates for riding end up in excellent circumstances. Again, this is a matter of choice for adopters/owners. The more compelling issue is whether rescues should be licensed and inspected. This, I believe will eventually need to be done, and we have an excellent (voluntary) programs in our state for this purpose.
“7. Limit on horses that one person can own. Most cities have ordinances that maximize the number of pets in a home with exceptions for breeders. A similar law needs to be implemented for all livestock.”
Oh, while you are at it, run this by your neighbors. These actions fall under the bracket of “restraint of trade”. Since AQHA has some experience with that concept and with litigation, they may be able to educate you on the subject. They have an attorney on staff who can assist you.
“2. Sterilization: Much like a catch and release program, stallions and mares are bough, sterilized and released back into the general population.”
Most large animal veterinarians and certainly most equine veterinarians in the US routinely perform castrations (some participate in low cost and subsidized programs). Most practices with surgical capabilities can spay mares, although this elective surgery is performed infrequently, it is quite doable. Availability of services isn’t the problem. The problem is greed. It is the concept that you can breed an animal and make a buck on the offspring with no concern for the fact that it is a living creature that has needs and that for all practical purposes, owners (or humans) must provide for those needs. No concern, lah-de-dah, and often no consequences for the unfortunate outcome when no one arrives to plunk down cash and take said animal. BTW, while you are on the phone with AQHA, ask Registry Services how many of the foals registered annually are produced by large breeding programs versus small programs. You need an education on this point too, because your ‘facts” are inaccurate. There are big breeding programs, some are ranch breeding programs, but in point of fact, there are not so many of them. I should know. I am an industry professional.
I disagree with fugly on many things.. but I have to agree with her here, she HAS put forth many of the suggestions you mentioned. And while the message is harsh, I think anyone has a right to blog about someone who is obviously out of touch with reality enough to let their horses suffer like this. The really sad part is while the rest of us may be able to ‘get it’ and make better choices after reading about these people, the people she writes about often don’t get it, and never will. I’d like to meet a rehabilitated hoarder… haven’t yet, and case after case just pulls up tents and then sets down in a different county/state, much like scam artists do.. and continue on.
That said, I think people that show bad taste, but take good care of their horses should not be what this blog is about, and that has happened in the past.
I have restrictions on the number of animals that I can have, since I have less than 40 usable acres in my name. Your county doesn’t have any zoning laws or stocking levels? It’s 1 horse/acre, and I think 1 animal unit/ 1/3 acre (which is for cats, dogs, small livestock, chickens, etc), and I don’t know that there are business exceptions in my area.
Some municipalities have zoning restrictions that mandate stocking densities and some do not. In some areas that are zoned agricultural, I believe that stocking densities are not mandated here. The more usual scenario is a residential tract (newer development) where properties are suitable for hobby-type horse farms, having mandatory maximum s on horses per acre. In the adjacent “town”, for example, I believe you are required to have 2 acres per horse. Our small farm is zoned agricultural, and I am sure I could have 40 horses and a moldy round bale here without ruffling feathers. The neighboring pony nations all do!
I find it funny that you only seem to show up when there’s something about neglect.
I find it funny how you say Fugly only attacks small breeders then go on to say that she attacks big barns. Make up your mind!
And for the love all that is sane, would you read! Fugly tries to educate everyone, hence why this blog exists! She’s also promoted the idea of euthanasia and sterilization numerous times throughout the blog. I will say, though, that a limit on “livestock” per owner would be nice but it won’t be possible. So, every farmer who raises pigs or cows will only be allowed…hmm…let’s say three. So, you buy two pigs, breed them and, oops, guess what. You’re over the limit! Gotta kill all the babies and save one to sell at market! Yeah, guess where the economy will go from there? Hopefully, you’ve had enough eduction to learn about supply and demand. Demand for most livestock is pretty high. I mean, you have been to a grocery store, right? Do you see how much meat there is? Imagine taking out three-quarters of that in a major grocery store because your idea of limiting the number of livestock was put into place. Demand is through the roof while supply is completely absent. With such a law in place, what are people going to do? They’re going to raise their own animals to slaughter at home and they’ll probably break the law to do so. Oh, and on top of that, if you wear any wool, that’s going to disappear, too. See, this will lead to mass chaos.
On top of that, what is your definition of a commerical breeder? As you can see from the article, this person considered herself a commerical breeder. Heck, anyone can consider themselves as a commercial breeder! All you need is a male animal and a female animal of the same species, let them run around together and you get babies that you can sell!\
“Breeders must pay a disposal fee of at least $250.00 per live foal…Commercial owners and breeders must pay this fee per foal and must also pay 10,000 care fee per horse they own…” Does anyone else find this a little ridiculous? I mean, where the crap is all that money going to go? The vet that takes care of these animals? The FBI? This guy? In that case, we should simply ban owning horses at all. No one would pay that much to keep a horse regardless of who they are. Those big stables would go out of business, attempt to sell off all their horses, and find that no one would buy them for the ridiculous price of keeping them…even if they don’t want to breed. So, guess where all those horses will go? Yep, overseas to be dinner. So, what do you suggest next? Anything else that might lead to mass chaos?
Educating people on horses is hard; people will not educate themselves it they do not wish to gain the education. Look at any person you come across and they will probably tell you there’s something they would not care to learn. What do you suggest, then? Make every school in the country offer mandatory classes on how to take care of animals? God, I would love that, but be realistic; every school would have to add in a facility for those animals, not to mention the fact that some people are allergic to animals.
And why do you never reply to anyone? Afraid that you might actually be wrong; don’t know how to answer; not sure what to answer? I really want to hear your answers to my questions. Where will all the money come from and go?
Once again, we have someone who posts imaginary conversations with their own magic avatar of Fugly. Kudos to you for not wearing white pillowcase hoods this time, so keep slowly progressing towards literacy and reason, and it won’t be too long before a few of us consider your opinions worth reading.
Sorry, didn’t know any other way to get a hold of you. I’ve had horses for 30 years, I’ve NEVER had a horse lope around the pasture like this. I got on dreamhorse and saw this horse for sale in WA : youtube video red hot inclination 2003 APHA/AQHA Mare. How is this a pleasure to ride?????????? $33,500 Are you OUT of your mind??????????????????? When and how many times have her hocks been injected. I clicked off after she past the horse tied in the corner, I couldn’t watch anymore.
OMG! How do you teach a horse to move like that and why? She looks lame and depressed. I’ll try to post the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPRqvyYPNGs
Actually, it is a pleasure to ride a horse like this. Horses that have no natural inclination to do this cannot do it. Believe me, after some muscle building it is more than natural for the pleasure horse. That is, of course, dependent on the horse. Just because your horses do not move that way does not mean it isn’t natural or that there is anything wrong with it. That would be like me saying about a dressage horse doing a piaffe “OMG I NEVER SEE IT DO THAT IN THE PASTURE! SO WRRRONG!!!!” (Not to mention a lot of things we do with our horses are not really natural. Like expecting horses to relax with a predator (us) on their back…..yeah in their most natural state, NOT happening!) Well, no…I don’t see them piaffing with their chin cranked into their neck in the field. I HAVE seen pleasure bred horses doing THAT in the pasture. With no training. The particular horse in the video needs to slow it’s feet a bit but it’s good to see the owner not forcing this. It will slow naturally as the horse builds up muscle and becomes more physically able to lift.
Call me old fashioned but I am afraid I do like to see a horses neck and head in front of me instead of a gaping hole!!
I can see absolutely NO earthly use for this style of aggravated action, and there is nothing natural about it.
I think you will find that most people on here are against any sort of extreme action and this sort of thing, and Rollkur, equates to the “Big Lick” TWH’s as far as I am concerned.
One of the reasons that the breeds have never caught on in the UK.
That and the fact that the RSPCA would have something to say about it!
Actually, it natural. Have you ever ridden a pleasure horse bred for that purpose or been around any? A good one is conformed to move with his or her poll even with their withers. When you say that it is not natural, you sound uneducated, because it most certainly is natural for certain conformation types. Yes, some people DO manufacture it into horses not physically capable of doing it, but horses DO exist who are naturally capable of doing it and are bred FOR that purpose. I have nothing against dressage, I was only saying that it’s hardly a more natural event. Fugly has even written about horses who naturally move that way, such as her own! You read the blog, read about that!! I would challenge you to ride my horse with her head up and neck curled and I’ll let you know how sound she is after!!!! I garantee you, she will be quite lame because she is bred to move in a relaxed manner with her withers in line with her poll, and therefore naturally moves that way.
Also, the purpose is to show that a horse is responsive and comfortable to ride. The reality is that it is NOT abusive the way rollkur and padded TWH is. If you think so, you are obviously not educated about it. Most people on here are NOT against horses that move naturally and are trained humanely, the way most of these guys are. If most people think the way you do, then they obviously have not been around it and are misinformed!
RayBixler, you said:
clearly the woman she posted about today a mental illness called hoarding
I disagree. Her website clearly showed that she was selling horses, and people here have commented about that, stating that she would bring lots of horses to auctions regularly. How can she be considered a hoarder if she sells horses?
EVEN if it can be proved that she has a “disease”, she should still be punished and never be allowed to have animals again! Clearly she can’t provide for them!
I have done allot of “horse trading” in the past, most people know it is how I used support the farm when it was bigger. Hands in every pie (i.e. training, lessons, buying, selling, rescuing auction horses and fixing them up to sell, some breeding, standing the stallions and so forth) It was a honest living because I made it that way. Of course since then there is no way to support a big farm in the horse industry these days, now I have a small one! (VERY small) Saying that….Being that I had associates in “the trader crowd” which is a stereo type if you do any amount of selling horses or trading…I knew allot of people. Tania was one that the REAL HORSE TRADERS warned me about if you can believe that. I never met her, I know she e-mailed me a few times trying to do “business” and I never responded.
SO…if well known HORSE TRADERS warned someone about a person….it HAS to be bad.
Also, that black Arabian stallion that she has, he was purchased from another BYB named Jodi Fowler who is selling Paso’s, pintos, arabians, ponies, saddlebreds and everything in between from Lopez Island. Do a dreamhorse name search and you will find her horses and prices. Starfyre Addis was bred in Darington by a nice gal who was over breeding for a while and selling babies CHEAP (the ones she didn’t sell for BIG bucks anyway..just to many). She has since stopped because she is smarter than average…and she DOES take care of her horses at least. So Starfyre Addis was purchased by Tania for next to NOTHING from Jodi….OH BOY…because he was BLACK and had BALLS!!! PERIOD. I saw him advertised REALLY cheap on dreamhorse..I want to say for like $300-500….but might have been $1000…but I KNOW it wasn’t more than that.
And THANK YOU JODI for never gelding ANYTHING!! Now starfyre’s babies will carry on this wonderful legacy of ABUSE.
She made Seattle. How special.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/82320307.html
Fugly…….Wisconsin folks need your help. We have found out that one of our finest perverts (zoophilia) has been released and living in a half way house for the “seriously and persistently mentally ill”. Waupaca county appearantly found that conditional release plan “would not pose a significant risk of bodily harm to the defendant or others or of serious property damage”. He was supposed to be committed until April of 2015 but now we find he is released. Yes, he is ‘restricted’ and on meds, not allowed to have firearms (oh goodie)….
You can get details on ‘Midwest Horse Welfare’ discussion forum under ‘caution’ and a check on facebook for Sterling Rachwal will give you an idea of his ‘antisocial narcissistic features’. Anyone who thinks facebook is harmless needs to see who has signed up to be his friend.
Please everyone anywhere near FondDuLac keep a close eye on your horses, any odd behavior or colicky signs, especially blood by the rectum…..get the vet. It’s probably a good idea to contact your equine vet and give them a ‘heads up’ anyway. It’s my understanding the police Dept in FondDuLac has information but probably can’t release details publicly but may to a veterinarian.
That is a perfect example of a pleasure horse moving unacceptably. This insanity is still very common. Who the hell wants to ride something like that?
I need the help of the fhotd followers!!!
Awhile ago, fhotd held an information day. We had just picked up a mare from a rescue, who is our daughter’s first horse. I was desperately trying to find out who this mare is, as she’s a real gem and ended up in the rescue through no fault of her own, but had no info to go on. I was SURE that she was a lost princess….and she is!
I just got word of her registered name. She is a black Anglo-Arabian mare. We were told that she was 17 years old when we picked her up, but she is actually 15 (supposedly will be 16 this spring) and her registered name is Salina’s Legacy!!!! 
Does anyone have access to half arabian registry info?
I would very much like to get her registration number so that we can track down her papers. Our daughter would like to show this mare, and this would open a lot of doors for her to breed shows/classes.
Luckily…this girl has a home for life. She will retire and live out her years with us when she is no longer able to pack Rhiannon to shows. She currently lives on our 5 acre farm with her best friend, registered Arabian gelding VT Ibn El Shalyar.
I just searched AHA’s Datasource – US and Canada – and got no matches on that name. I even tried the purebred registry and got nada. Could there be any other spelling of her name – although I’ve even tried just searching black Anglo mares and still gotten nothing.
????
My subscription is good for about 24 more hours, so if you’ve got more info, I’d be glad to take another look.
I can only find 2 half-arabs I can find that are registered with the HAHR that are around the same age as your mare. One is a mare named Salina Bey, but the markings don’t seem to match up (the only marking she has is a faint star). Well bred mare, double Bask up close and a Bey Shah granddaughter.
There’s also a 1993 mare named Baron’s Legacy that is black, and this sounds like it’s a better match. The markings are both hind partial coronets. If it is her, she was last owned by an Alvin Bluhm of Wisconsin. She is by Baron Von Black, who is by Summit Royal Jet and out of Rans Raffiano, a Raffon granddaughter. Her dam was a grade mare named Kate. The registration number on that mare is 1A311465.
Hope this helps! Perhaps her name was changed…at any rate, it is a place to start
There’s nothing wrong with horse trading…when it’s done right. In fact, a reputable dealer/trader can be the very best place for an inexperienced person to go to buy their first horse. You can find the reputable ones fairly easily…people know who they are.
A reputable horse trader will take a horse BACK if it doesn’t work out, sends all horses out in good condition, is honest about what work an animal can and cannot do. A reputable horse trader will do his or her very best to find you exactly what you need.
Then there are the horse traders like Tania. Sigh.
That poor mare on YouTube. I put that she’s been trained to lope like a sore water buffalo.
Why does every QH trainer keep horses tied in the arena while they’re working other horses?
This Tania lady is a piece of shit. And so are the authorities who won’t do anything to her.
Our precious freedoms come with responsibilities, and she needs to be made glaringly aware of that. Surely even the most Ayn Rand worshiping libertarian would agree? This bleeding heart liberal does….
They are tied in arenas to get accustomed to horses being worked around them. Also horses are tied in (warm up) arenas at some (western) competitions. This is not uncommon. I have a filly right now that is TERRIFIED of horses loping near her (I know-WTF? but some are like that). This is NOT a method to use for her, but for some issues it is an acceptable method. Also, horses are tied like this (if you think about it, an arena is a pretty safe and controlled environment) to learn to stand tied patiently. I know an OTTTB that may benefit from this! (but I would ad that everything needs to be done with insight and with moderation).
Why does every QH trainer keep horses tied in the arena while they’re working other horses?
I’d like to know as well. Never made a lick of sense to me. I’ve seen hundreds of English trained horses of all breeds and not one case of a horse tied in the arena.
This is OT, but I figured Fugs might like seeing just another nice OTTB doing very well (at age 19 !) in his new job:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0hZzhx3mjA
That is a wonderful contrast to the “pleasure horse” sale video above. Lovely. Too bad we do not show in the same club (I have some open show horses I show in a local club)-we would have a blast!
i know that you filter these, and i am gambling that you wont post this. but i feel that you really should gather up all the facts. The sherrif’s department openly admits visiting Tania on more than one occassion, several as a matter of fact. Do you know how many times that they went to her and said anything like, “Do you need help getting rid of these animals?” or, “You need to get down to a certain number or we will have to come and take them.” or “If you don’t get rid of them we will smear your name and face all over the media and the news?” The answer is ZERO. I know this for a fact. Everytime the police came out, they said simply, “well there’s plenty of food and water, there is a little mud around, but as long as they have good blankets and food and clean water, everything will be fine.” This is a fact. Had they said to her that she had way too many, (which i am in no way defending,) and that if she didn’t get down to a certain manageable number or there will be these consequences, She would have just said fine take all these that i can’t give 100% attention to. They never gave her that option, they never even warned her. Everytime they showed up, they were satisfied with the conditions and left. Suddenly with these measures 66 and 67, and a newly elected sheriff, it was a great opportunity to call the news and make a huge deal out of it so they could get all the public backing they need to pass this bill. The bill calls for more money for these instances. If they had offered her a choice, she would have gladly taken it. especially considering the alternative. she was a scapegoat. Guilty of having way too many horses, yes. guilty of not providing for them , no. another fact, no diseased horses were on the property. And during the 12 hours that the County and the volunteers were here, the horses were not fed or watered once. From 8am till 8 pm, no feed or water. Fact, the horses that were in “such bad shape” in the trailer…they are still there. Again, there was no desease on the property. The news is actually making retractions. It’s your responsibility to gather and share the facts. Again, yes she had too many. it got outta hand in a big hurry. the economy took a dive and before she knew it, it was too late.
It is very common for people to say that animal control/the sheriff has been by a million times and NEVER had a problem with them. Um, do you ever watch detective shows on TV? Animal control/the Sheriff will be VERY nice to you and NOT “tip you off” while they are actually gathering evidence to make a case against you. If you are getting repeated visits, it is not because they like you and want to hang with you and drink coffee, it is because you are under investigation and when they have enough evidence, you will be arrested.
The job of the Sheriff is to ENFORCE the law. It is not to educate about horse care, offer helpful tips, take in unwanted animals, or lend a hand. It is merely to investigate and dole out punishment when laws are being broken. You are expecting things from the Sheriff’s office here that were never within the scope of their responsibilities.
Please, someone, stop me before I take number 117.
Ever notice these people refuse to take the blame for anything in their lives? It’s always someone else’s fault, always, and someone else should help them. It doesn’t matter how deep they dig themselves into a hole or how many times they repeat the same mistake over and over, it’s not their fault. Someone needs to come clean up after them, cause it’s not fair.
I hear the same exact excuses each and every time this happens. Even up to horse number 116. It’s a pattern of the same excuses in every case. It’s as if their still children and they shouldn’t have to take responsibility for their actions. Someone (mummy/daddy/anyone) should come and clean up the mess and pay for the mistakes. They’ll fight tooth-n-nail with anyone pointing a finger at them, refusing to ever accept the mess they made. Someone (else) needs to come bail them out (you big meanies) when it becomes overwhelming.
If you can’t see the train wreck coming by horse 50, you have no sense of reality. Living in a fantasy.
In rescue, it is easy to take too many. Have I gotten to the point where I went, you know, I have too many? Sure. I got to that point at horse 10, and got down to 5 horses as a result. I feel a lot better now that if I got sick, or died suddenly, my horses would not wind up in a bad place. A good friend just got sick with a mysterious as-yet-diagnosed autoimmune problem. She can’t work. That could happen to any of us. Fortunately she has all of THREE. Three, we can probably find homes for if that becomes necessary. If it was 100, we’d have a problem.
It’s just not that complicated. MOST, the VAST majority of horsepeople, should not own a huge number of horses. Even if you breed, why not have a smaller number and concentrate on producing the highest possible quality? I simply do not understand even having the URGE to have 100. WHY? It is too big of a mess to clean up if something goes wrong for you.
And since when is it the Sheriff’s job to clear up her shit anyway??
So, if the nice man had offered she would have said “oh take that load of crap but leave me all these that I have not yet starved because I may yet make a buck out of them”??
I’m sorry, what colour is the sky where you live??
That is NOT the way things happen on my planet!
In the real world, when you have too many horses, as I do at the moment, you keep feeding them, although they are of absolutely NO use whatsoever to you, because, you know what? That is NOT their fault!!!
So, you pull in your horns, stop breeding anything you are not certain you will want or can sell, and you bloody well sort out the ones you have, before you get any more!
And you absolutely do NOT, ever, allow anything to starve while you do it!
I can still afford to eat, therefore, since my horses eat before I do, they are well fed.
I am assuming dear Tania never went short of a meal??
You don’t think she was “guilty of not providing for them” after seeing those pictures? How can she be guilty of having too many but not of not providing for them when they look like that? That screams NOT PROVIDED FOR to me! I hardly think this was a smear campaign no matter what the papers decide to retract!
Linn Co is just north of wonderful Lane Co. where I live. It sounds like they are just as concerned about animal protection. I got divorced on October 1st, 2009 after my ex left on March 15th just leaving his two horses without provisions for their care. I was awarded these horses, as well as my own, but since I now own the horses Lane Co will not pursue Neglect charges against him. He committed animal neglect (167.325) under Oregon law whether I now own the horses or not. In addition, since October 1st, three of my horses have died. On October 19th, my TWH mare Cinnamon died, on January 8th, my TWH gelding Dollor died and on January 8, 2010, my Arabian gelding Ty passed. These horses were all heathly the afternoon I went to work and when I got home the next morning, they were down, couldn’t get up and died. They all lived on this property for four years, so it is unlikely that they got into something toxic. Even more unlikely they would do it over a three month period of time. Even more unlikely it would only be my horses. What are the odds? The ex and I work at the same business and he knows my schedule. He works days, I work swing. He testified in court to his hated for the horses and he threatened them, my dogs and me on several occasions prior to the divorce.
Did you do a necropsy on any of the horses? If you still have horses, I would move them IMMEDIATELY!
No, I did not. So, I would know what kind of poison. How could I prove he did it? Where am I going to move the horses? And my dogs? And me? I’m being terrorized by someone who thinks nothing of taking a life, not once, but three times and I can get no help from anyone. I can’t even get protection, much less getting protection or justice for the horses. I can’t even get anyone to pursue the Neglect issue. Why have the law if the authorities won’t press charges? The bottom line is that the county will only do something when it is some sensational story for the press and long after animals have suffered for a long time.
Locks on the stalls/barn and get a security camera.
My problem with this whole thing is that the real problem, TB and SB horse breeding operations, are not being addressed at all here. They breed thousands and and tens of thousands of horses every year. They’re not all winners. They need to be stopped, also. It’s not just about the BYB. I’d feel a lot better if fugly took the big breeders on, too.
(FHOTD in: Well, I do, but the breeds you noted AREN’T the most guilty in terms of overproduction. If you look at the stats, there are more QH than anything else. I have many times bashed on these farms that have 100 QH mares in foal, like that Bedonna idiot.)
Please see my above post to “Ray” Bixler. You need to get your facts straight. Sorry, but TBs and STBs actually represent a much smaller proportion of the unwanted horse population that QH or stck-type breeds, and when one considers the USDA records of horses going to slaughter, approximately 10% are TB/STB-type horses about 5% are other and the balance are QH/stock type. That is from memory-the actual %s may differ a bit but basically that is the makeup of the population.
OMG sigh. We keep hearing about so many of these, from Dean to Jean to Dawn to Jason to Amanda, the other Amanda, Judy, etc. in adfinitum. They all have defenders, they all have excuses, they all have neclected horses who deserve a better life and maybe a very few of those horses will get what they deserve, due to rescue organizations and individual people who are able to step up.
I’m sorry, I feel so jaded. Exhausted, hopeless, angry.
Fugly, I don’t know how you do it.
Here’s the contact info about the neglect case.
This is the contact info to voice your opinion in regards to the recent horse neglect case in Mill City. Apparently her court date is February 24th, so write the District Attorney to ensure your voice is heard. Jason Carlile Linn County District Attorney 300 4th Ave SW Room 100 Box 100 Albany, Oregon 97321 541-967-3836
OT but uggggghhhhhh look at this Craigslist ad; the horse even comes with BOOTIES!! BTW I would have never have found this ad if I was looking for a horse except I searched for a Philly, some sort of new horse term which I am seeing WAY too often the last, what, twenty years?? And, don’t reply unless your serious, yeah right, how do you know if she is worth looking at, no price, no breed, no height, heck not even color or name! : {
“I have a beautiful philly for sale i moved houses n have no way of bringing her with me or i would shes haulter broke n learns very easy. Shes about 3 years old i really dont want to sale her but she deserves to be with some one who can spend time with her more than i can… Please only reply if your very serious in buying just give me a price and maybe we can work something out… i also have a saddle reins and two haulters with ropes included and four booties for sale too email me if you have any questions thanks!”
Hey just got this info
contact info to voice your opinion in regards to the recent horse neglect case in Mill City. Appearantly her court date is February 24th, so write the District Attorney to ensure your voice is heard. Jason Carlile Linn County District Attorney 300 4th Ave SW Room 100 Box 100 Albany, Oregon 97321 541-967-3836
Please if we all write or call we may have an impact on what they do!
Dear Fugly,
I have always loved your blog and it is so, well, “neat” to see our our rescue on here despite the circumstances. I am a volunteer at LCAR and have been for some time. THANK YOU, for the publicity as your site has given us more hits on our website than any other so far. It is my personal opinion that you are correct in what you have said here. The need in the horse world is definitely prevention, not a band-aid after the fact. However, I think that having the Sheriff’s office involved, resulting in the fact that people are finally having to take responsibility for their actions, is a start.
For anyone out there that would like to help, PLEASE email us!!! linncountyanimalrescue@yahoo.com
We are working on posting the applications to our website. Please remember that we are run by a small group of volunteers and most of us have full time jobs, please do not be impatient. We have had many phone calls and emails in response to this tragedy….
PLEASE do NOT email us with your negative opinions about Tania or our facility. We really need to focus on the horses and finding them foster/adoptive homes. We cannot give out any information about the horses right now either. If you have a concern about a certain horse and whose it is, etc. please contact Linn County Sheriff’s Office.
Thank you all for your concern and support. It is good people like you that allow us to do what we do.
Keep fighting the fight!!!!!!!!
OMG that German video of Western Riding should be sent to all AQHA trainers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0hZzhx3mjA
Gee, who’da thunk that a stock horse could be a slow, easy and comfy ride without his face dragging in the dirt?
The rider is awesome, too. Look at her LEG. I am impressed!!
Good luck PNW people on getting Tania busted but GOOD. I’m tapped out on charity this month, between my own horse, my Haiti donation, helping out a deserving relative…..
That is a good ride!! Western riding horses need more natural lift than a pleasure horse, so it’s poll would not be even with it’s withers.
People PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE believe DianaL and understand she speaks absolute truth about Lane County Oregon authorities. I speak from personal experience! The authorities absolutely WILL NOT ACT with less than media direct attention or if the complainant makes it clear she is “lawyering up” and maybe not even then! PLUS it is very, very hard to FIND a lawyer interested in taking an agriculturally-related complaint for less than 10K retainer.
It is unrealistic to suggest she padlock the stalls and install security cameras. Poisoned grain can be tossed into a stall and responding to a camera image won’t do you much good if you are a half hour away at work even if your boss lets you sit at your desk and watch the internet all day to catch the perp. How do I know? Because I frantically sought solutions when it became clear I had had neighbors determined to do me and my horses serious harm, neighbors who hurt their own horses ON PURPOSE, neighbors who also were (prob’ly still are) raising and training fighting dogs.
BEST ADVICE is MOVE horses to undisclosed location, put in someone else’s name, hire a “babysitter” who knows how to use a weapon and then MOVE OUT OF STATE then get your horses into your new location ASAP. I worked in domestic violence volunteering and trust me, there is NO LIMIT to what a vengeful ex-spouse will do.
Diana also please be VERY careful who you tell your story to. You’re probably safe here but I would trust very few in your “real life” circle. You just don’t always know others’ agendas!
You might try talking in person to LCAR Officer Kylie Belachaikovsky. GO IN PERSON to Lane Co. Animal Control and talk to her to see what she suggests.
BE SAFE!!!
Hmm, the black and white stallion… his front feet don’t even match eachother.
Government control over training probably would never end well but there needs to be a better term for it than “trainer”. I mean, anybody who tries to train something could call themselves a trainer. Doesn’t mean they’re any good. I can call myself a painter because I own a brush and some dollar store acrylic paints… but that doesn’t make me an artist! *sigh* It seems like anybody who has managed to get a halter on a foal can call themselves a trainer.
Honestly: How many of you ride your horses exactly they way it moves in the pasture????????
The reason I ask this is because the logic people use for putting down other breeds and other disciplines is, “my horse doesn’t move that way in the pasture.” Most horses are not as collected in the pasture as they are in the arena. It’s a fact. I have never seen a hunter move in the pasture as it would in a hunter class, maybe it happens. I wouldn’t know. I have also never seen a dressage horse move as in the pasture in the same collected manner as it would in the arena. Again, maybe it happens. I have, however, seen a pleasure horse move the same way in a field as it would in an arena. Does that make it “more natural”? No, probably not. It’s because I haven’t been around english style horses as much, so I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about when it comes to them!! I also don’t know much about reiners, cutters, ropers, pole benders, Arabians, or Saddlebreds. I know Snaffle bit types- all around quarter horses and paint horses. So, I stick to that knowledge base and don’t profess to know anything about those other disciplines or horses made for them. I think some of it is quite ugly, but I don’t run around saying it because as long as they do these things without harming the horse, good. They are allowed and I’m not allowed to judge. I think people should stick to what they know.
[FHOTD in: My horse actually DOES lope level in the pasture, always HAS, and so will any quality WP prospect. If they naturally run with their head up, think about a different discipline for them -- no matter what their breeding is, WP would be a struggle for them. There is nothing inherently abusive about how WP pleasure horses go today. The question is, how did you GET there? It's the same as the difference between charro training and real dressage.]
Right. My horse’s stride is naturally longer than that of a western pleasure horse, and her poll tends to be SLIGHTLY above the withers when she goes naturally. Therefore, pleasure is not her calling, despite the pleasure lines in her breeding. So, we stick to horsemanship, showmanship (whicH she is AMAZING at), and are trying to add on trail and western riding. I wouldn’t like to have a horse that can only do western pleasure, but it IS an absolute pleasure to ride one that is good at it!!!
Just found this link had to post it. Can you believe someone is trying to defend her actions. Makes me sick!
http://thetruthabouttaniaherring.blogspot.com/
Guess who has her face book account back up
Just wanted to mention that I recently looked at tania’s website. Boy is she trying to make herself look good! The Stallion and mare on her so calle d rescue page are both DEAD! The mare looked good when I had seen her, then when she came back from Tania’s she was skin and bones and had a huge hole in her withers that was oozing pus and blood! I know the woman who owned both horses. The stud was actually soldand killed by another person. If you are friends with her I just don’t understand how you can defend her on this?
So, is the article right (sorry, failed to note which link) that this is all occurring on 12 acres, meaning the 80 horses left behind are all still ON 12 ACRES???
I sure hope people are still reading these posts!! I am down south and 2 years ago sold this idiot my daughters QP Mare. I was mortified to hear about this, and sickened at the thought that something we loved so much was probably mistreated, starved, hurt, or even worse, dead!! I have cried many tears since hearing about this last week! I feel SO stupid, and so cheated!!! This sale took a month to finish and I did my research on this girl and came up with nothing bad on her!!! I am just sick…. I called the rescue organization with the hopes that they could tell me if she was one of the horses rescues, they said that because the case is pending they could not release any information. I understand this, and am trying all avenues to see if anybody has info on the horses rescued!!! The pony is 10 years old, flea bit grey in the winter, beautiful white with a blue marbeling in the summer. She had a really long mane and tail, with tons of chrome. She also had a few scars: her right nostril (if I remember correct) had a little split from a barbed wire cut, and she had a few black scars from fighting with one of my mares in the trailer, one in particular I remember on her left hip. She had NO CLUE she was a pony!! Her hight is 13.1. If anybody knows if this pony was rescued?? Still there?? Sold?? Any info would really be appreciated! She belonged to my mentally disabled daughter, she was her first horse. My daughter trained her all by herself and they won tons of awards and buckles together. I would at least like to know if she is okay??? I have pictures if needed!!!
I’m forwarding this to someone local who may have more information. Crossing my fingers for you!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!