Part 461 of the blind leading the blind!
Dec 05 2009
We all come across scary trainers all day – people who don’t even know what they are doing themselves and are doing a bang-up job of passing their ignorance on.  If I put up every one, this blog would be about nothing else, but this one, Crystal Rivers, is special in that she has made a real project of documenting her poor training online. Yes, youtube is full of her students – who have not mastered riding on the flat – flying over jumps and careening around corners on the wrong leads.
I don’t know if these riders are youths or adults but I’m sharing this solely to illustrate the abysmal quality of the training. Any of these riders could be a good riders with a competent trainer, but sadly they are wasting their money on someone who…
doesn’t appear to know leads (that’s her yelling at the student) and
is letting this person jump SO far beyond her ability that a bad accident seems inevitable
It’s the Flying Nun without her habit!
There was a video of someone jumping an oxer backwards, but apparently that got removed already. However, she left the still on her web site. How scary is it that someone who claims to be a professional trainer put this picture on her own web site and does not know it is wrong? I’m endlessly amazed at how people memorialize all their oopses on the web – and NOT by saying “hey, look at me having a dumbass moment, ha ha, I jumped the jump backwards.” No, I’m pretty sure this student thinks she is doing the right thing and that it’s exactly what her trainer told her to do. Eeek.
But hey, she can break a “rouge stallion.” What is that, a stallion who tries to dig into your purse and pull out your makeup?
Oh, and in case you thought she was limited to being a crappy trainer, she’s also standing a stallion called Kid’s Fascination with NO mention of his HYPP status. His daddy was N/H. He’s got Mr. Impressive on his dam’s side, who was N/H. Anybody want to make a bet he might be N/H too? Gee, why is his status never mentioned anywhere? For a $1250 stud fee, I’d like to know what I’m breeding to. For that matter, I’d like to know has this horse ever accomplished anything (someone on APHA want to look him up?) The only mention of him online is when he sold at auction for $2300 as a yearling. Lady, for $1250, a person can breed to nice N/N world champion and AQHA/APHA champion stallions all day. I could make a list a mile long. Yours seems to have accomplished “being ridden in the same arena with mares.” Woo hoo.
Classy choices for broodmares too…what exactly is this straight shouldered, long backed, funky hipped thing and why did we make more of it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgD16hj_QEs
You knew there was going to be foal jumping if I looked long enough, didn’t you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bwOpPoH-w
*sigh*
And now she apparently thinks she is a reining trainer.
The person who sent me this was miffed that Ms. Rivers had, of all people, been selected to teach the equestrian program at Liberty University. To that I say: good grief, isn’t that Jerry Falwell’s pet university? They probably think the Lord will protect them as they fly merrily over fences, miles above the tack…good luck with that.
Anyway, this just leads me into a bigger rant, and one that I’ve had before: STOP RUSHING YOUR STUDENTS!  Here’s a simple guide for learning to ride hunt seat:
1. Learn to walk and trot with correct position and quiet hands. Learn to steer, to look ahead, to execute maneuvers like circles and figure 8′s. Learn your diagonals reliably.
THEN…
2. Learn to canter and learn your leads reliably.
THEN
3. Refine your position to the point where you can be competitive in a flat equitation class; learn to pick up diagonals and leads by feel alone. Learn to trot and canter without stirrups and maintain your position. Master a quiet and efficient simple lead change. Learn to ride in a half seat position without losing your balance.
THEN
4. Start jumping cross rails and learning flying lead changes and move up from there.
If trainers actually followed this progression, the way they used to, we would see an exponential decrease in the number of hunt seat riding accidents. I do not understand, nor will I ever, why or how you would consider permitting someone to jump who cannot post without their stirrups. How do you think they will stay on when the horse chips in and pops and they lose a stirrup? The answer is that they won’t. If one of your MAJOR goals when teaching someone to ride is NOT “keeping them on the horse and injury free,” please stop teaching. Now.
Yes, I have heard the complaints that the parents push you into it, and that if people do not see progress fast enough, they will go to another trainer.  So what? Let them go. For every student you lose because you aren’t pushing fast enough, you can get five more who appreciate your commitment to safety. And when your students whip the butts of the pushed-along-too-fast students, you will have a waiting list! Slow and steady really does win THIS race. Peppering youtube with dozens of videos of riders who have been pushed too far for their abilities doesn’t make you look cool. It makes you look like someone from a Jackass movie, except that the neck you are risking isn’t your own — and that’s about as uncool as it gets.
Chase Community Giving has a new program on Facebook where they will donate to a deserving charity this Christmas. Nominate your favorite horse rescue – just do a search for “Chase Community Giving” and you’ll find the app. Click on the tab for “Chase Giving” to search for your favorite nonprofits. The BEST part is that you have TWENTY votes so you do not have to pick just one rescue to help. You can spread your votes around for different animal rescues or you can also use some to help other types of nonprofits. How great not to have to make just one choice – KUDOS to the Chase people for that!
169 comments to “Part 461 of the blind leading the blind!”
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OT but if you’re on the east coast and looking to rescue, here’s a son of Luke At Me that they can’t afford to feed:
http://www.horsetopia.com/for-sale/classifieds/ad427199
For your next bad parenting blog…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42929123@N08/3972580016/
was there any rule in that photo that they didn’t break? WTF are they thinking…
The only question about that picture is who is going to get hurt first.
At least the diaper doesn’t apprear full, and the foal is too young to have crappy feet (yet.)
I started with a trainer early this year – my first one in Arizona. I’d had a few scattered lessons here and there over about 10 years with other trainers when i could afford, plus lessons with some trainers i was a working student with, who though they tried valiantly, were kind of unsure about how to teach beginners. Nevertheless, i felt like i was a pretty accomplished rider.
My new trainer observed, “you’ve been taught a lot of wrong stuff. We have to fix you.” So, despite my ego for having ridden and even taught lessons for years, i find myself back at awkward walk-trot rides while i relearn how to appropriately use my seat and my core. Is it frustrating? Absolutely. Will i be better off for it in the long run? You bet your ass.
Airs Above, I am with you there on these wal/trot lessons. I have been riding since the age of 7. When I was starting, riding was not so popular in my country (right after the fall of communism – that system loathed riding as a not-working class sport) so the riding barns were in short supply and anyone who had a crazy broodmare, hardly broken 3 yr old stallion or a 25 year old gelding was teaching. I have no clue I managed to live through this. After 16 years of random riding, two years ago I decided to do something about it. I think it would be easier to start as a real beginner that to fix my bad habbits.
OMG – this woman is in my area!!! She is in the local papers all the time. The last article I read she was bragging about sharing her ‘rare and special gift with horses’ – Holy cow!!
Last year I went to a police auction where they were auctioning off her Dodge dually because she refused to pay her bill when she had the transmission rebuilt!!! Some of the proceeds went to other people that she owes money to as well. She has quite a reputation around here – and not a good one. I do not believe she owns the farm that she claims to own either. My understanding is that she is quite good at preying on the inexperienced.
I had a fabulous trainer – Tracy Mullen (I can’t say enough good about her) – she made sure that I could do all the things you listed before I ever attempted jumping. I can’t tell you how often I went home sore after a session of posting the trot without stirrups!! LOL As a result, I have been able to stay on in many situations where I could have been seriously hurt otherwise.
Yep. No one likes working without stirrups, especially in the beginning – it hurts, but it really is insurance – it is what helps you develop a tight enough seat to stay on and recover when the unexpected happens. Bareback is helpful, too.
To me, bareback riding the the BEST thing you can do to get a secure seat. I rode that way for about 10 years. When I got home from school, I would run out to the pasture, grab my horse, do a quick brush, toss on the bridle and away I would go!! Weekends and summers I would spend HOURS out riding bareback. The ‘horse hair butt’ jeans drove my mother nuts!! LOL
Me too. We didn’t even have a saddle until several years after we started riding. Every day after school, weekends from sun-up to sun-down… Growing up in So Cal (30 years ago) the weather was almost always perfect for riding and we rarely missed a day.
Why is that horse a stallion and what exactly are they traning it to do? What the hell breed of horse is that mare? On top of everything eles, she is obviously a Krazy Kolor Horse breeder. What exactly was she trying to get that horse to do in the “reining” video clip? (and I still regret even reusing the word she put to it). Please don’t tell me she was training it to spin… Why, oh why, oh why, would anyone who wants to be considered a trainer have clips like that on youtube? If that is the best you have to show the world, it is time to find a different career field! How can she have any students? Surely they have seen the video clips, too…
I believe she was attempting to teach it to spin. I cannot wait until some of my readers who seriously show reining horses arrive and comment on her technique. I am sure they will have a lot to say!
I live in Poland and this country is full of crappy trainers… Even the fact that you actually need a licence to be a trainer on basic level and another one to train people who compete. Plus another licence for higher calsses and the last two are not so easy to obtain. Without them you have absolutely no right to advertise yourself as a trainer and you cannot get a civil liability insurance without them. BUT… of coarse there is a whole bunch of people who think they do not need a piece of paper to teach others. And also – people with the first degree licence who think they are way better than they really are (to pass the exam you need to be able to ride dressage and jumps in the L class which is not a great challenge, especially that you ride your own horse). But what bugs me the most is that there is no need for a paper to train horses so that is how a whole lot loosers make they money from.
In my boarding barn there was a guy – typical wannabe. He was an OK recreational rider but nothng close to show rider or whatsoever. Plus his mare which basicaly could just be trail ridden and has NO future at jumping anything higher than 2′ (long pasterns). The resident trainer was trying to push them in the right direction and encourage to try some very basic dressage, improve the guy’s riding abilities and then maybe think about jumping one of his horses. But common, our hero already have a horse and if the trainer could not turn that fugly thing into a jumping queen, he was a crappy trainer obviously. So what the guy does? Finds himself a “natural-horsmanship trainer”, a wondermaker who apparently can even change the horse’s conformation and train it at anything. We all take one look at the guy riding and see that he is 1. terrible rider, 2. reckless idiot, 3. Big headed jerk. But he allows the guy to jump the poor mare over 120 cm (not good with conversions) which is just ridiculous. We all try talking to the guy, the barn owner and the trainer threat him to get kicked out from the barn. Two weeks into that king of “training”, the poor mare trips on over a fence, breaks a ligament and sprains a muscle. The rider breaks his collar bone and basically almost gets killed (his trainer said the helmets are for pussies). The vet bill is almost twice much the horse value. The mare gets euthed. The guy is blaming everyone around – barn managers for bad surface in the jumping practice paddock, other boarders for staring at him during the practice, wind for blowing. Sad, sad story. And I am full of these, should probably start a blog on them….
120 cm? Holy crap, that’s nearly a four-foot jump!
OT: Anyone hear about that barn fire at a harness racing track in Ohio? Horrible. Here’s a link to it on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/12/05/whio.ohio.horse.barn.fire.whio
I have. Its actually a short drive from me. It breaks my heart that so many died. I heard that they haven’t ruled out arson, because there were susposedly a few higher end pacers in that barn. I want to die when I hear these stories, and I am thankful every time that it wasn’t my horse.
Speaking of “tight seats,” Horse Journal has an article this month that compares the different kinds of saddle stick, entitled “Get A Grip On Your Tack.” Passier, I believe, makes a leather conditioner that also makes the seat sticky for those who wear full seat breeches (a plus for dressage riders, especially, according to a trainer from Yucaipa, CA). The article says that the BEST way to stay in the saddle is by using correct equitation, but sometimes a little extra stick-to-it-iveness is needed, whether riding or driving a carriage.
The sad part about all this is, anyone can claim to be a trainer. Many people will look at the person who says s/he is a trainer and believe them, particularly if their location is convenient and the price is right. You can’t always get good information if you ask others about the trainer’s reputation–people are either afraid to “mess” in their own back yards or they want you to “learn the hard way,” the same way they did.
With the Internet and all the blogging and Facebook-type pages, it’s easier to research show records, background, criminal proceedings, etc. I belong to several horse e-groups and there are a lot of questions asked about clinicians, tack and equipment issues, etc. Again, you may be getting baloney, but you have more ammunition to continue your research.
I haven’t seen the article but I HATE the seat of my saddle being sticky. It bothers me so much. I finally found a saddle soap that doesn’t leave the slightest bit of sticky residue on my saddle, it leaves it smooth and soft and clean, but not sticky. When I bought my saddle it had been in someone’s tack locker unused for awhile, and I probably cleaned it five times with regular saddle soap, and all that did was leave it cleaner, yes, but also stickier.
Back to the thought of bad instructors…
Oh man, this reminds me of the place I started riding at.
I had had a few lessons… Just walk/trot on a lunge line, nothing huge, nothing regular. I could post, that was about it. Then we went to my grandmothers house one summer, and when my parents saw that we were in for an extended stay there, and they found a local riding camp and enrolled me.
We rode for TWO hours in the morning. In that two hours, the first morning, I was allowed to walk, trot, canter, and jump. And the jump wasn’t a cross rail, it was a line of two small verticals, about five strides apart. I lost my balance over the first jump, and I probably would have been able to stay on if there hadn’t been the second jump… I fell off right on my head and was promptly informed by someone else that “The pony almost stepped on your HEAD!”
That camp was ridiculous… Later that week they taught me my diagonals and then they had my trot and canter on a lunge without stirrups or reins. Oh, and we got to ride bareback walk/trot for an hour in the afternoon. And we did more jumping every day. Probably the only thing I did that week that was appropriate to my riding level was learning my diagonals. Of course, I had my doubts even as a ten year old about the place when the ‘trainer’ rode my horse when it was acting up… After kicking off her flip flops so she wouldn’t lose them, of course.
Of course, then we moved to Japan… I took riding lessons there, but there was a little bit of a language barrier when my best friend wasn’t there to translate, LOL. I mostly learned how to stay on the evil pony they owned who liked to do his best to get me off.
Finally I moved back to texas where I had lessons at a highly reputable eventing barn, where they sorted me out, for the most part. They moved students slowly and correctly, and all we had were old flat all purpose saddles, safe for jumping in but NO blocks or rolls anywhere. Your leg position was not created by a saddle at all. And now that I’ve switched to a hunter jumper barn (the owner of the eventing barn was crazy, and refused to feed and threatened to shoot a stray dog who just hung around the barn and wanted to be petted. Dog didn’t chase the horses, or go in the arenas, or even bark, ever. She now lives in my house enjoying life… I took her and left. There was no reason to starve or shoot this dog) I appreciate that even more, because we ride in saddles with thigh blocks and knee blocks and knee rolls, but I don’t need them. The one day I brought my own saddle up there (an old Crosby, similar to the all purpose saddles at my eventing barn in that it had no blocks or rolls anywhere) was the one day I got compliments on my equitation.
My riding camps did their best to educate, but bored me to death because all we did was a bit of walking ad a bit of trotting. No diagonals or anything, but they had safe helmets and horse classes (colors, body parts, etc.). I think it was called Hoofbeat Ridge. I can’t believe many of the people wo ride today though. Hardly any emphasis is put on the equitation of the rider. Broken wrists, hands in crotch or down by the rider’s knees, chair seats, tipping forwards, I could go on and on. I’ve lost in equitation classes to people who ride like that. And very few people can ride without stirrups or knee rolls.
My saddle is a Crosby Equilibrium without knee pads or rolls. I love it, and my EQ is not half bad. I actually find it harder to ride with knee rolls now. Is this saddle what you use? My seat is great, although it is easier when you are young and the horse is the right size for you. But I can stick pretty well, especially since my trainer stole my stirrups and hid them on me for a month and a half. She gave them back at a show. After that, it was harder to ride WITH stirrups than without! I kept losing them!
If Passier makes such a conditioner, it is at least not sold in Germany. As far as I know, Passier only produces and distributes a leather conditioner (difficult to apply due to it`s texture…sadly, `cause it´s really good stuff), a saddle soap (which I can also recommend, especially for finer leather) and a bridle cleaner spray…
Somewhat OT, but hopefully Fugly will let me post ’cause you guys are awesome and probably know more about this –
I’m considering sending my horse away for training for the first time. The mare Honey is not halter broke, long friggin’ story some of y’all have already heard, and I’d like to have her ground work done (halter, safe grooming of touchy mare, LL, trailering, safe for farrier, etc), nothing special. Just get her up to where I can really work with her. The lady I’m looking at sending her to is about ~2hrs away and has experience with rescue horses (she did well in a trainer’s challenge for the biggest rescue in my area and says she fosters horses for them) and horses like my Honey. She just moved to where she is, so her place isn’t super set up yet, but what I saw when I visited last weekend was safe and well maintained. She was working a horse when I got there and she was firm but calm about correcting the booger, and I saw her riding one of her horses at the expo where I found out about her. She’s been an A+ about her training philosophy and her answers to my questions. My only snags are that no one I know has heard of her, so I don’t have any references, and …she said she could get all that done plus Honey started riding in 30 days. When I went to see her, she also said she should be leading within the week, and I’m not sure how to take that. She also said she’d know whether Honey was going to get all this done within a few days of working with her, and that I could come out to visit any time (she actually won’t send horses home unless the owner has worked with them at least for a few hours during the training). On the one hand, I don’t want to send Honey anywhere that she’d be pushed too far, on the other she’s a 10 yo mare who should have ground manners, I don’t know how to do it right with a horse who’s not a usual blank slate, and leading probably shouldn’t take all month anyway. Can I put limits on what I want a horse in training to get taught? Like, go up there during the second week and decide whether I want her to go all the way to saddling then? Does this sound like a ridiculous time frame? This lady has several horses in training, so she rides every day. My horse would be moved to a more established barn up the road when she’s done halterbreaking her for the other training. This barn had an indoor arena which is kinda necessary for winter Midwestern training. I can either do it now (like, next weekend) or in the summer, since I want to be home and available while she’s away, and I think even with the cold she might get more personal attention now than when all the summer riders come in. I REALLY don’t want to put this mare in a bad situation, or, you know, pay $500 for someone to screw up my mare, and I really don’t want to drug her up to her eyeballs to get her feet done anymore. Any questions I should be asking her? Anyone know WI trainers that could tell me if she’s bad news or the real deal? (My email is my username at gmail.com) I’m so used to horse people talking the talk but not walking the walk, I’m not quite sure what else I can do to make sure this is a good situation. I’d rather have a pasture pet forever than hurt, but I’d really like to make a little hunter/dressage horse out of her someday.
…aaaand that was a gigantic Wall Of Text. Sorry ’bout that.
If she claims to foster for the rescue, ask them about her. If it’s a reputable rescue they should be very picky about who they have as fosters. And just check up on your mare. If you think she’s moving too fast you have every right to ask her to slow down or take your mare home. I don’t think a week is unreasonable for leading – I spent more than a month with my 3 yo mustang, but most of that was just getting him to trust me. I halter broke a foal for the first time last week – a friend had an emergency and needed to move him, but he hadn’t been handled, so he got a crash course in leading. We ended up flagging him into the trailer because he wouldn’t lift his feet, but by the time we got him unloaded on the other end he was leading like a pro, in just a few hours.
Ask her for some references from people who have had their horses in training with her, and go talk to those people and see their horses.
Oh, yeah. I’m really impressed. She likes to make crossbreds with Connemaras and Welsh. Gotta love those designer breeds. And let’s not gorget that her studs throw color!
Fugly, I can’t believe you missed that poor mare’s post legs! (Just jokin.)
Yup, there’s a lot of bad training out there. I used to brag that I could post bareback, and other riders were amazed. Nobody ever said, “Me, too!” Tells you something, doesn’t it? I practiced a lot, learning to post bareback, without knowing a thing about longe line classes. Now I want to take some!
Ruthie, needing to get back into exercising!
In the first picture she is jumping WAY ahead of the horse. This is obviously NOT an experienced rider, and she should NOT be training horses until she gets her equitation much improved!
That picture of the backwards oxer jump isn’t her, it’s her student and yes, she is WAY ahead of the horse…not safe at all.
Even my boyfriend, whose only exposure to riding has been trail rides and watching me school the little mare this summer for an hour could tell that was wrong. He was really quite proud of himself that he could tell something’s off.
“Crystal Rivers”… is she married to Rocky Shore????
I beleive that is her ‘stage’ name from a previous ‘occupation’
Oops – that’s believe – not beleive
I’ve met her sister, Brooke Meth.
LMAO!!!!!!!!
I learned to ride, starting around 8 years old, with a former Medal/Maclay rider. She was fabulous and pretty old-school. We weren’t allowed to jump AT ALL until we could post withOUT stirrups around the arena 8 times. Since I only got to take one lesson a week, that meant I was riding on the flat for about two years before I could even THINK about jumping. Guess what though? In my first ten years of riding, even when I had progressed to riding greenies, I fell off fewer than four times. I ALMOST lost my seat plenty, but a very strong foundation meant I was nearly always able to recover when things didn’t go as planned.
I know that it can be frustrating to ride on the flat, and have to wait eight months before you’re even allowed to canter. As a typically horse-crazed kid, I wanted to live The Black Stallion and go galloping off in the sunset on a beach (bareback, of course). (Actually, I STILL want to live The Black Stallion, but that is neither here nor there.) But because my instructor persevered and didn’t kowtow to my eight-year-old desires (and I had parents who were happy to keep my horse safely between me and the ground), I got a terrific foundation.
My current instructor recently posted an old video of her competing. THIS is how I want to ride a hunter course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeevQ7TKKXU
Re the video you posted – great example of NOT riding off your hands. She is doing it all through her seat and legs. Very pretty to watch!
Beautiful- maybe it’s my imagination, but that kind of calm, precise style of riding seems to be harder and harder to find, whether in dressage or jumping. Maybe it does have to do with lack of foundation?
I think that is exactly what it is–a lack of foundation and, as Fugly says, parents, students, and (come on!) instructors/trainers who want quick progression. Students get antsy and want to do more exciting things, parents want those and to not hear their kids whining about going faster or jumping, and (unfortunately) instructors are rewarded for moving kids up quickly because parents get easier to convince that little Susie is a superstar rider who needs to show weekly and really should have her own expensive pony….
It is unfortunate, but good trainers and riders are still out there! I agree that in the hunter world certain flashy “equitation” (and I use that term very loosely here) forms are being rewarded–flinging your hands extravagantly up the neck over a fence, ducking, etc. but I don’t think it is the only thing being taught.
I wasn’t allowed to start jump lessons until I could ride my full hr lesson bareback at the walk, trot and canter while keeping a quarter under my knee. I can see the only draw back – this was in the dark ages and helments were not required, all other precations and education about the horse were given. I have no idea why helments were not a requrement.
If you read the comments after the video clip FOHTD titled “flying nun” someone makes a comment about how great the girl looks BECAUSE SHE ISN’T HOLDING ON TO THE MANE! What is she doing jumping if she needs to hold onto the mane?!
And jumping 3’6! I mean, sure, I can see grabbing mane over x-rails – that is, in fact, recommended so that you don’t pop the horse in the mouth. But by the time you’re jumping 3’6, heck, by the time you’re jumping 2’6, you should be far past any need to grab mane.
I actually know a few pros who admit that there’s no shame in grabbing mane on the rare occasion a horse really pops you, especially if it’s a hot-sided horse where you can’t rely on leg gripping.
But that’s where a horse is jumping so abnormally and off rhythm that feel alone isn’t enough to hang on. I wish these riders would grab mane they’re so awful.
Talking of ignorant institutions – a draft (yard? not sure what catagory it comes into…) that takes their horses to a prison to teach the inmates compassion and stuff. Sounds good, until you see people with NO balance sitting bareback on a massive horse with no hat, and no tack. Check out the picture of ‘Cody’ in ‘our herd’, yes that’s a small child lying on the back of a draft with another horse in the field, as well as the pictures of them visting the prisoners. Under the title of ‘our stallions’, they announce that their dog is the only stallion they have at the moment, I don’t know if they meant it as a joke or if they really think a stud dog is called a stallion, anyway, you can breed your mutt to it!
http://godsgentlegiants.org/our_herd
Oh, and they’re religious.
Just saying…
I notice their “stallion” is a “pure bred Rott without papers”, but they’re offering him for breeding. Just as with horses, what has he done to prove he’s a good representative of his breed? Don’t breed your dog unless he (or she) has at least proven himself in the conformation ring. Better still if he has a performance title as well. There are more than enough dogs (pure bred and otherwise) begging for homes.
Manx- where is your sense of humor!
I think that is a great site (gentle giants)- I love a website with a sense of humor. It looks like a beautiful place, run by wonderful people. Wish I was closer so I could volunteer.
Come on people some of you need to take the stick out of your butts. If we all hadn’t galloped before we were ready, we probably wouldn’t still be riding, that is what makes us realize we need to take lessons. Thank goodness there was no cameras around then.
I can’t have a sense of humour until my exams have finished! This was actually my break from revision (I’m trying to avoid facebook as I get addicted). – and the pony’s lame so I can’t go for a hack to get away from it. =/
(/end complaining)
I have a sense of humor. That’s why I laughed when I read this on the God’s Gentle Giants prison ministry page: “Especially in a time and culture that mystifies our children with Harry Potter, witchcraft, and terrorism.”
Really? Children are mystified by terrorism? I guess I don’t know my kids as well as I thought. Did they actually just use Harry Potter and terrorism in the same sentence?!
I’m so glad that I had my trainer Aimee. She started me off walking and trotting, like you stated, but she was also enforcing the jumping position without jumps. While I was learning from her, we never went faster than a trot even though I really wanted to, because I needed to be more secure in what I was doing. Then she ended up leaving the stable with a lot of other riders and trainers so I was out of lessons.
I would still like to get back into lessons again but its rather hard to find trainers who know what they’re actually doing for a fair price.
Is this Aimee on the east coast and have a last name thats a girls name??? Is her barn initials CBF?
No…a different Aimee…
Haha, thats too funny. Tha Aimee I know is a great teacher and her whole family is the best!
Best training I ever got in developing a seat was vaulting lessons – just a German dressage instructor, lunge line, caveson, vaulting surcingle and a well-trained, slow, sweety-pie gelding that could canter in a nice wide relaxed circle for an entire lesson. Rode with my eyes shut half the time, with arms up or out to the side, cantered while lying straight back on the horse’s back . . . one lesson and I learned what a seat was after years of riding. I got to shut off my brain and ride with my body. When I got off after the first lesson – aside from being incredibly sore- I could actually sit a trot. I GOT it. Also helped teach me how to shut off my brain and just be with the horse. I highly recommend it – but you have to have the right instructor and the right horse. No rushing!
I love that! I still (even with 40 yrs of riding) like to get the occasional no-reins-or-stirrups 20-minute longe session, when I feel myself falling into bad habits or when I’m stiff and sore and transmitting that to my horse. It loosens me up and gets the muscle memory back to where it should be!
Back when I was first learning to jump, I wasn’t allowed to do even a crossrail until I could WTC and ask for transitions between each while staying in 2-point.
Forgot to add–eyes-shut on the longeline was like magic for my balance.
And does anyone else anticipate that woman coming here to rant and rave at Fugly? I have a bad feeling… >.>
…and I can hardly wait! Someone posted a comment on one of her youtube videos suggesting that she read this blog – but that would require literacy.
She’s not going to rant and rave….she knows the game…she is going to pretend to be a polite Christian because she’s working for LU….everything’s a con with her. Basically she conned someone at LU to hire her……they didn’t check for any credentials or run a background check. If she rants here someone will send it to LU………
Oh wait, they’re a ‘rescue’. They show a picture of a big grey and describe how his legs were swollen and covered in proud flesh. It then shows a picture of four small, helmetless children on his back, because that’s what EVERY lame horse needs! It’s okay though, because they were praying for him: “The Stark County Foster children are praying for Moses while on his back – He needs all the prayers he can get. We’re convinced that the prayers are what kept him alive.”
Nutters.
I apologize in advance for this. But the picture my mind painted was the poor horse spooking and flinging helmetless injured children left and right: “Moses parting the Red Sea!”
Sorry.
LMAO #2
Hey everyone! I am new to the web-sight. My trainer made me ride bareback for a whole year. It realy teaches you alot of ballance and builds up your core. Working with out stirrups made my behind and legs very strong. I could out leg press all the guys in my weight lifting class. I am am currently looking to adopt a horse. I am going to try to make sundays Enumclaw auction. Heres what I am looking for: Mare or gelding 14.3-16 hands, stock type horse, around the age of 3-14. The horse dose not need to be broke, but I would perfere one that is atleast green broke. Must be a real sweet-heart, kind around kids and dogs. No I do not have kids, how ever my b/f has a little girl who loves horse’s. I am an experienced rider. I have been riding and showing for the last 20 years. My horse always comes first! I am a college student so I am not ritch. I can offet a good loving home with plenty of food. I have 3 1/2 acres with a small barn at my house. I would mostlikely board for the winter and work with a local trainer. Please let me know if you know of anything that might work for me. Also please excuse my bad grammer and spelling. Yes a college student should have that down by now. I am woking toward a degree in human services, school counsler/ psych major. Thanks!
who is the youtube user “fourluckyhorseshoes”?
They have commented on every video completely repeating everything on the blog like a parot who is desperately trying to prove that they know what they are talking about. Repeating what the blog says word for word does not make you look knowledgeable. Just conformable.
Wow. That’s all I can say.
I am a riding instructor. I’d like to think of myself as one, anyways. I am ARIA certified and have a degree in equine studies (4 years, and NOT ONLINE), but I still consider myself more of a “beginner to intermediate” level instructor and trainer at this point.
For some of my students, it can take two years of lessons before I let them jump. I do tons of lounge lessons with them, most of the time doing work without stirrups, without reins and sometimes both (for my advanced riders only) to teach them balance. We do lots of gymnastic work to build up muscle and increase flexibility, control and relaxation. Like you, I have a “checklist” of mastered skills before I allow a student to jump.
My students can expect to spend a lot of time conquering the ground pole in a 2 point before any height is added. They can expect bareback rides, lounge lessons and “homework” assignments that include stretches and yoga movements at home. And yes, they will spend a lot of time with their feet out of the stirrups. While I’ve gotten some flack from parents who felt I wasn’t progressing their kids fast enough, I stick to my guns and have the best safety record out of all of the instructors at the barn. While I did lose one student as a result of my strict rules on progression of skills taught and difficulty of horses, I’ve had a ton of parents agree that riding can be a dangerous sport and caution must be used.
The student that no longer rides with me was stolen by another “trainer” much like Crystal here. This person pulled my student aside at a show and basically told her that she deserved to ride at the intermediate/advanced level, not in walk trot (where I had placed her). I found this out when the parents of the student (she is nine) called me to tell me they were riding with someone new who would, in their words, “put her at the right level.” I saw my former student at a show a few weeks later. She was jumping a hot OTTB, fell off at the first fence, and I haven’t seen her at any of the shows since. Its sad, and I really hate to see someone who is given the responsibility to teach and create a safe learning environment completely ruin students (and good horses) by failing to go over the basics.
Patricia, that’s it. I hate to see people – adults or kids – have a bad experience and then quit riding (or get so badly hurt they have to take a lot of time off and come back fighting fear issues) – when it can be avoided altogether in most cases by simply taking the time to teach the basics, and on appropriate horses.
Absolutely—plus (we’ve all seen it) the horse gets blamed and dumped (or worse.)
Actually around my area for every student that you make learn the correct way there are 5 that will go to a different trainer. I have parents and kids get upset that I won’t let beginners off the lunge line until they can ride w/t and some canter without stirrups and reins. Then I have others get mad that little Suzy isn’t allowed to jump because she can’t even control her horse at the w/t. I could go on and on. But I tell them they have to learn this way to be safe and to ride correctly and most leave. Last one that left I heard she broke her arm when the other trainer 25min from me let her go from hardly being able to w/t to jumping 3ft. (sorry about spelling mistakes, painkillers are kicking in)
The other thing is that parents don’t want to pay $35 per lesson around me. I’m sorry but I went and trained under BNT, did the Working Student thing, and have brought along horses to the upper levels of eventing, jumpers, and dressage. For less then that (and honestly I think $35 is cheap) I don’t think it is fair to me as the instructor.
I think $35 a lesson works out cheaper than a broken arm.
$35 is cheap, what are they complaining about, I’d be thrilled.
Wow! I feel so sorry for the students of hers that don’t know any better!
I hope she gets a job at a fast food restaurant or something, get her away from horses.
When I started riding I was at a BAD farm. Luckily what their teaching lacked the horses made up for. They had some wonderful horses! I switched farms pretty quickly and the new one was AMAZING! They had you jump without stirrups on a regular basis to make sure you could stay on if you lost them (it came in handy too!), post without them, ride without reins, tons of stuff! I was pretty sore but because of it i’m a very solid rider on the flat. My jumping is still lacking unfortunately xD
Thank you again for exposing the idiots!
OK only like two of the videos havent been snatched off yet. So all I saw was the foal and foal jumping, and the bay thing jumping the lattice jump. None the less it sounds/looks like shes a real winner, and I hope for Liberty’s sake she isnt really working for them. Maybe some one needs to inform the Dean or some one what a “special” girl they have working for them if she is……
But yeah, WOW!!!
Drop the ‘way it used to be’ crap.
This crap has ALWAYS been with us.
I am thirty-six years old. I learned to ride…and my parents let this happen, and would not pay extra for proper instruction…under two women.
One of them never wore a helmet until it was required in BSJA competition. Then she started wearing one…only in competition. The other was no longer physically able to ride due to multiple health conditions.
They required their students to wear helmets and provided them…hunt caps. Most of those helmets did not even have chin straps. Half of them had no liner left and of course, they never cleaned the things. They had barbed wire on every field except the ones that faced the road, which had post and rail for ‘extra insurance against horses getting into traffic’. Several of their box stalls were old nissan huts converted into stables…lots of sharp edges there. They had horses wandering loose in the yard (along with dogs, goats, sheeps and at one point a pig…how none of these various critters ever got onto the road, I don’t know). One of the dogs that was allowed to run loose would regularly run the horses…and not just in the field! She’d come charging into the arena and run horses people were trying to ride, and the trainer would do nothing about it. The goats, sheep and pig also wandered into the ungated arena regularly. One of the sheep was aggressive and attacked students and their parents…again, nothing was done about this. Horses were trotted along the road barefoot (Fortunately, most of them were colored cobs with hooves as hard as any mustang…they’re bred to not need shoes). The only animal that was ever properly restrained was a genuinely vicious Jack Russell who would bite anyone other than her owner who came anywhere near her.
As for the quality of instruction. Students jumped cross rails in their first lessons. Yes, on the lead line. Students were over-horsed routinely, experienced students who pissed the instructor off were punished by being made to ride beginner horses. There were two measures of your skill as a rider: How high you could jump and how difficult your horse was. Most of the boarders were also over-horsed (including me at one point). 90% of the horses wore martingales. Jumping was not optional. If you rode there or boarded there, you jumped. Boarders had to take lessons with the trainer.
Most of the lessons were taught by the woman who could no longer ride. Horse training was primarily done by a third woman, who had been hired on to do that. The first woman, who owned the place, mostly escorted trail rides (their idea of a trail ride involved jumping anything that looked like a fence and galloping). They would ride when drunk and encourage adult students to do the same, they would ride in shorts and sandals and, of course, no helmets.
Any horse that refused to jump was beaten. If the rider refused to beat the horse, the woman they hired as a trainer would order the rider off, get on, and beat the horse. Any horse that spooked was beaten. They would put that woman up on boarders’ horses and have her beat them. Riders who refused to jump were screamed at, and then the trainer would chase the pair over the jump with a lunging whip. Anyone who fell off was told to get right back on again unless they were obviously injured and sometimes even then. And then made to go over the jump again.
Their horses came from auctions, 99% of them, and they flipped horses, using the experienced students as cheap labor to train them a lot of the time…any horse that actually started going well was sold. They would have students training four year olds. With no minimum wage laws in the UK, they paid their teenaged barn help in free lessons. They’d have anything up to forty, fifty horses at a time, most of which were not suitable.
Anyone who questioned them was no longer welcome…they never actually threw a client out, but would cold shoulder and bully them until they left.
Somehow, their horses were always sound. That’s the only thing that could be said for the place…they almost never had a horse go lame. I wanted to leave, but what fifteen year old is going to sell her horse and quit riding, the only option I was given.
The long term effect?
1. I am terrified of jumping, to the point where I would jump ship to western before I would ride at a jumper barn again. I think my current trainer could probably cure me, but we’re not in the position to really do anything about it now.
2. I almost never even carry a crop.
3. I can barely take lessons with one of the instructors at my current barn because of her physical resemblance to that trainer (They’re the same height and weight and have a very similar voice).
This woman is going to do the same thing to her students. Sigh.
I forgot, though. I did learn one very important thing.
The velcro seat. A few days ago the horse I was riding did the Equine Lateral Teleport and I stayed on. Many riders wouldn’t have.
According to APHA there are no show records for Kid’s Fascination #567225
We have lots of “trainers” in our area. Even ones that tie their horses to the trailer with chains under their chin and then wonder why the horse cut the crap out of it’s face when it pulled back. Scary, scary, scary!! I’d love to take lessons but I don’t know anyone in the area that is competent!
And on another note…I want some of what this person is smokin!
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/1496728746.html
People can’t GIVE Arabs away at the moment. I could find at least 5 different ads that have Arabs for $200 or best offer in the Midwest. Let alone one that’s preggo by an unknown stallion and “fast” and needs someone “who knows what they are doing”. I absolutely LOVE it when they point out famous stallions in the bloodlines. Gosh I own an Arab who had extensive professional training and literally came from Varian farms so he has phenomenal bloodlines too–but I didn’t pay even half of what she’s asking and that’s back before the market crashed! LMAO! She probably paid a whole $200 for her at the “sale”. Crazy insane people and the poor horses who are owned by them.
I thought someone might be willing to share some info about the enumclaw auction. Is there any way to know what will be up there? I also thought someone might know of a horse that needs a new home. I may be a college student but I do know about finances. I have a loving home that is provided with everything a horse could need. Hopefully someone will be kind and point me in the right dirrection. Thanks so much!
I’ve only been to the Enumclaw auction a couple of times just to observe and that was 10 years ago, so I am far from expert. But I do know there’s no way to guess what will be for sale until the morning of the auction. Saturday they sell cattle, so the horses don’t get dropped off until Sunday morning, sometimes 10 minutes before they are put up for sale.
You could go in the morning and look around the pens, occasionally an owner will be there to answer questions, sometimes the horse’s papers will be posted. But most of the time no information is available and you are taking a big chance, bidding on a horse with absolutely no information about their training or even soundness.
If you don’t mind a suggestion, if I were you I would consider looking at some local rescues instead. If you buy from the auction, you have to then pay for vaccinations, teeth floating, farrier, and maybe even more unknown vet bills. A horse from a rescue has already had all that done, and if it has health issues, you already know everything ahead of time. Plus, you know exactly what level of training the horse has, and, if your situation changes they will take the horse back no questions asked, so you will never have the heartbreak of having to sell your horse and wonder what kind of future it will have.
You sound like you have the perfect situation to adopt a rescue horse, just my 2 cents.
Well, I missed the excitement. That’s what I get for going shopping today, instead of watching for the new Fugly blog! lol. On a complete side note, my mud paddock is freezing in lovely tall lumps of nasty hardness over deep goo. Is anyone else hating Momma Nature right now? My horses = “No way in Hell we are going outside.”
I guess I don’t really need to see the videos to picture that type of training. My only frustration is that so many instructors KNOW they suck, and they still move into a new area, schmooze their way into the public’s graces, and then move on after taking everyone’s money and hurting their children.
I learned the ‘go slow’ lesson early in my career. As a pushy, energetic teen who was giving lessons, the first two times I pushed someone to ‘try it anyway’, it went wrong. Fortunately, no one was seriously hurt, and in my defense the riders weren’t pushed like the poor girl hanging on for dear life in the jumping video you posted. But I learned a valuable lesson– it doesn’t matter if a student is ready to move on. If that student isn’t confident, and doesn’t want to go faster, then things WILL go wrong if I push them. I kept that lesson close to my heart and mind after that, and it has never steered me wrong. Yes, I’ve had kids fall off in lessons, and yes, I’ve made mistakes as an instructor. That isn’t the same thing as what I saw up above. I know those kids are having fun, but that doesn’t excuse that type of instruction. Students trust trainers to know what is okay, what is safe, and to keep them safe. It’s unacceptable for anyone to take money for instruction if that person doesn’t even know when something is ‘going wrong’.
I agree with all who say, SLOW DOWN. My first interview with parents and riders is simple. I explain that if they ride long enough, sooner or later they will get hurt by a horse. I then explain that my job as instructor is to teach them the skills they need to minimize that hurt when it comes. Does it scare some of them? Maybe. Is it being brutally honest? Yes. I also explain that they are never to let me give them an instruction they aren’t comfortable with. We canter when both I and the student feel it’s time, and not when just I feel it’s time. Lastly, I tell them that it’s my responsibility to explain why they are doing what they are told to do, and it is their responsibility to ask questions if they don’t understand. I will then explain it another way, and another way… and another way, if that is what it takes for them to understand. See, I can’t hold their hands for the rest of their lives, so I want my students to be able to think for themselves.
I guess I rambled on, so for those who skimmed through my post– smart move! hehe. Just to simplify– I wish there was a site that actually listed top trainers, along with videos of students and references and the trainer’s philosophy of teaching.
Most of the videos were pulled by the time I read this. What I saw was not pretty. The stories in the comments are giving me flashbacks to childhood when I came close to a very bad wreck due to a crazy-thinks-she’s-a-trainer. That’s part of the reason I’m still a chicken about jumping. One lesson with a bad trainer was all it took. My mom and I thought we were getting tuned up for our 4-H Fair’s classes.
Miz “I learned to jump in Ireland”, as she reminds everyone every two minutes, decided my horse and I (both of us very new to jumping) would jump a four foot jump. No matter that we’d only done 2.5 foot obstacles before. She had two lunge whips in hand, and I kept saying, “My horse was abused, please don’t bring those near him, just let me work up to this on my own. He’ll freak if he sees those coming after him, don’t do it.”
So of course she runs at him with the whips determined to not let him refuse the jump. My poor horse turns to face her, she keeps coming after us, gets me in the shoulder and the face with the lunge whips, and drives him sideways over the jump. He hit the top and rolled over.
He almost came down on top of me, but wrenched around to not crush me, so hard that he forced fluid out of his spinal column. At least I had the guts to leave after that. My good horse was sore for the whole week of Fair, with swollen lumps around his spine right where the saddle would go. I was putting ice packs on his back while other kids were riding in classes. He could only canter on one lead for a couple weeks even in the field.
Though a year later, on my now ancient arabian mare, I beat the “I-learned-to-jump-in-Ireland’s” daughter and the A-circuit ringer she’d mounted her on in the hunter over fences class. She actually tried to spook my mare during the class! I saw her doing it to other riders as well, waving papers at them and crinkling plastic bags right by the fence till the ring steward asked her to step away from the arena. She was stomping her feet in fury when I got called for a ribbon and her kid didn’t.
She now leaves the area when she sees me coming at shows. Something about my topics of conversation when she is trying to drum up business….
I absolutely HATE trainers who chase horses with a whip in lessons. That’s so dangerous. I can see using some ground whip support when you have an experienced person on a green horse who is balking (with their consent of course!) but never with a scared lesson person. That’s all kinds of wrong.
Absolutely. The only time I’ve had ‘ground support’ lately involved a horse who is still working out how to canter under saddle, and then it was the trainer running alongside and using VOICE aids, no whip involved.
If I was riding under any trainer and she even produced a lunge whip while I was in the saddle, I would get off and I would leave, regardless of who they were and regardless of how much I might have paid them. I will NOT be treated like that. I had to take it as a kid, but I sure as hell won’t take it as an adult.
Of course, letting your dog run your lesson horses with riders on in an ‘arena’ that’s actually a small turnout paddock with BARBED WIRE is worse. And then shrugging when a kid gets run into the fence…somebody who was watching on the ground. I don’t know how I wasn’t hurt a lot worse….but swore that day barbed wire would be banned from any property I owned.
Anyone who chases a foal over a jump should be tossed out of the freaking Gene pool. Gah… What a great addition for her resume.
Let’s hope Liberty University has some very deep pockets. With someone of this caliber on your staff, you’re going to need massive insurance.
As for that 3.6 jump…. *head-desk* Yup, everyone lands on the horses neck.
The only lesson I ever took (other than from the horses I rode) was a bit of a disaster. At the end of the lesson I felt extremely uncomfortable in my “seat” that had my feet in the middle of my mare’s shoulder and me pushed up on top of the swell (thankfully my saddle is hornless, or things would have been very inappropriate). This was riding in balance?
Sure, I was off my mare’s back, but I also had no balance at all, and was frightened I’d be toppling over the front of her at any slight misstep. In fact, the only thing that saved me from toppling off when she did shy at the trainer’s dogs was that I felt her sway and re-assumed my usual seat not a moment too soon. Speaking of the dogs, they were well minded and were just walking around outside of the arena, but they were a distraction to my greenish mare.
Could she travel better like this? Well sure, until her shoulders got sore I guess. But at that point I would have been better off to get off the horse and do a ride-and-tie instead of an endurance ride.
I’ll go for lessons again in the future, as I know I have plenty of improving to do, but with my time being so limited it’s tough to dedicate any tiny bit of time I do have to go take crappy lessons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSDMry33Mwk&feature=related
Okay, I found her.
Now excuse me while I go take a long shower, and wash my mouth out repeatedly….
I just… Okay, see, the thing is, a lot of times people do irritate me with their opinions about the perfect way to be around horses. I mean, I used to go out in the pasture, climb up on my mare, turn around backwards (her rump was soft, and pillowy!) and take a nap while she grazed. I don’t believe my mother deserves to be jailed for that.
But who in their right mind….. I mean… who ties their horse to a barred window for its first saddling? Who has a STUDENT lay on the horse’s back, kick out of stirrups, and slide down for a horse’s first dismount??!!! A student!!! And while I respect her obvious desire to never have her horses jabbed in the mouth, why must all her students lay between the horse’s ears?
Shower… then mouthwash. Bleh.
Wow that was sad. She is a realy stupid lady, hopefuly she will be the one to get hurt from her mistakes not the students. I would never tie up my horse for it’s first saddeling. I always walk my horse, while holding the saddle, let them check it out good. Once they know what it is then set it on their back. This lady has no business on a horse much less training. Good thing her videos are only 16 seconds I could not take much more of that crap.
And none of his 3 foals (2003 (2) & 2005 (1)) have show records either.
The only video left is the flying nun one. Her comment: “Need to stay better seated and work on rein contact.” What, you mean the goal WASN’T to touch the ears??
“I’m endlessly amazed at how people memorialize all their oopses on the web – and NOT by saying “hey, look at me having a dumbass moment, ha ha, I jumped the jump backwards.— THIS is how you say “hey, look at me having a dumbass moment”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsfu4shk5l8&feature=related
It baffles me that people can enjoy themselves while jumping fences so far beyond their ability. I mean, you don’t have to be a jumper to realize that going around a course is a lot more fun when you’re in control and secure in the tack than when you’re flying around on the wrong lead, flopping out of the saddle, and generally sucking. Maybe I’m just a chickenshit, but when I was learning to jump I didn’t WANT to go over 3 foot fences, because I knew I’d have a good chance of falling off/otherwise embarrassing myself. Is this sense of self-preservation not present in other people, or what?
Also, way to go Liberty U. Bet you’re going to be doing really well in those inter-collegiate shows next year.
Vegetarian or not, everyone should read the new book by Jonathan Safran Foer titled, “Eating Animals.” It’s not a book promoting vegetarianism, rather just a book providing the facts about the animal abuse and cruelty, the health risks of eating meat, and the huge impact factory farming is having on our environment. It’s a very good book and available at Amazon.
Thanks! Putting it on my reading list.
My friend is the one that submitted this to you and I’m so glad it’s on here!! We’ve been griping for months about this crayzee laydee and her “rare and special gift with horses” (rofl). I used to go to Liberty (which is how I met my friend; I did a free lease on her mare while she went to school), but recently transferred out due to…how should I put this…disagreements on ideals between me and the University. (Basically, while I am religious and I love God, I don’t agree with the rules enforced at the school, so I left this past January.) Anyway, I’m so disappointed that a school that really does have a strong academic program and good sports teams allowed themselves to get involved with this freak. I KNOW there have to be other riders – good, competent riders – there who would know that there’s something very, very wrong with this picture.
She had already deleted the video of the girl jumping the oxer backwards by the time you got this, but I think it was because I commented on there with something akin to: “Question: why is this girl jumping an oxer backwards? That’s very dangerous. I should think that the coach of LU’s new equestrian team would teach her students better than this.” I really wanted to see what she said. Bummer.
On another note, if this lady doesn’t come on here to voice her unhappiness, check out this gem she posted on her larger YouTube channel (she has two accounts, serenecreekrun and cvlrperformancehorse; this is on serenecreekrun):
“the videos you are viewing are made for client viewing and shared with the public. most are practice or random videos. not all segments are in perfect form, maybe their feet are a little too far back or their coat is too long, or maybe they are not sitting perfect. i am there to coach them and get them through all that. the videos you see and comment on are there to show them what their improvements and faults are on the day the videos are shot. keep the snide remarks to your self and feel free to watch them as they get better with each video. .students are all improoving and winning in the show ring. we are all proud of the youth students here at serene creek run and look forward to 2010. good job guys keep up the good work.”
Really? I don’t suppose she mentions which shows are they winning at?
When you make those statements, you do have to back them up at some point.
Crystal already owes a freakin’ fortune to lawyers so of course she would say the other.
The Virginia Courts Database is very public. She’s got a few warrant in debts pending right now, and her son is awaiting sentencing on not one, but four grand larcenies. And he probably hangs out at the barn with the students……scary.
I would think someone teaching ANYthing at a college level would at least know basic capitalization and punctuation. It certainly doesn’t inspire much confidence if your teacher doesn’t even have a grasp of the English language (or is too lazy to present herself in a professional manner, in writing). First impressions and all…I would question her competence just on what she’s written, withOUT seeing the videos, which of course complete the impression of incompetence.
You would think. But I guess these colleges who want to start an affiliated ‘riding program’ have no idea what to look for?
I know of a convicted sexual offender teaching the riding program for a prestigious college. So apparently they don’t do background checks either.
No one likes working without stirrups, especially in the beginning – it hurts, but it really is insurance – it is what helps you develop a tight enough seat to stay on and recover when the unexpected happens. Bareback is helpful, too.
Yup – I really think this one simple thing goes SO far to insure a solid rider. It is a bit painful to begin – but man I am I grateful for those muscles now!
~DD
Gah!! Darn this stupid dial-up internet!!! Well, maybe one day I’ll get to watch the youtube videos while they are still posted!
All I can say is that there really should be some sort of lisencing or certification requirement to be able to call yourself a instructor/trainer.
I got stuck learning with some BYB and I picked up the most horrendous riding habits ever!!! Thankfully I learned through Horse Illustrated magazine that you are not supposed to hold your reins with your palms facing down! One day I’ll be able to afford good riding lessons and go back to having to relearn all the basics like ummm…leads!!!
Kate, since you attended LU for a while and left due to disagreements about it’s philosophy, what is your opinion about it’s science program? You mention the academic program is good, but what are their teachings on evolution? I’m not trying to challenge you, I’m just curious about your opinion, because the theory of evolution is based on genetics, and it seems a breeding farm would have to at least accept evolution to have a wisely-thought-out breeding program of whatever species.
Littledog, LU is 100% for creationism/intelligent design (as am I), and so there are little to no teachings about evolution except very basic information about the theory and why they don’t believe in it (evolution is false, man did not come from ape he was created by God, etc.). In fact, Creation Studies is a required course that every student must take in order to graduate from the university. Unfortunately, I can’t say much about the science program first-hand because I did not get around to taking any science courses there, but I lived with two nursing majors who were greatly challenged in their bio/pathology/chem etc. courses (and not because they were bad students lol, the classes were notoriously rigorous, as they should be for people wanting to enter the medical field). I know that the nursing and pre-med majors are among the most popular and the most competitive at the school.
I don’t disagree with that aspect per se, I was irritated by the ridiculous rules (i.e., no rated R movies, midnight curfew if you live on campus, absolutely no alcohol whatsoever even if you’re of age, your jeans can’t have holes in them, skirts no higher than the knee, and my favorite: expulsion from school if you have an abortion, etc.). I was being parented by my school more than my own parents; it felt more like church camp than college. They have required (as in, they check your name off a list and you get in big big trouble if you’re not there) convocation, which is basically like an informal church service, only the main message isn’t necessarily religious. For example, we’ve had political figures like Sean Hannity, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, and Governor Kaine of VA. I swear they could not get through a convocation without mentioning the name of Jerry Falwell. Oh my gosh. I almost felt like they worshipped him more than God. On the other hand, I learned a lot of very practical stuff for my field, knowledge that I used to obtain my job and that I actively use in my job today as a graphic designer and Web developer for St. Mary’s College of Maryland, so for that I am grateful. As a Web Design major at Liberty, I was taught Java 5, standards-compliant XHTML and CSS, principles of design for print media etc, real world skills that I will use for the rest of my career, so the school is not strictly a “Bible school” like a lot of people perceive it to be (although it did start out that way in 1971).
Well this is turning into a great big Wall Of Text lol, so I’ll shut up for now.
Why do you ask?
She certainly took those videos down in a hurry!
I raise Quarter Horses. No, my stallion has not been shown, so he has no performance or halter points, although point and performance earners are on his papers. There is a market for well bred, intelligent, well behaved, awesome colored horses, even from those whom have never gone into the show ring. My mares?, the same.
Most shows have so much politics involved, (not to mention the costs associated with the training, and showing) it would not be feasible for me to ‘try’ that part of the industry at this time. I’m not saying it won’t happen, but, the timing is not right at this time.
I have owned, Shetlands (magicians), those whom magically appear in the most unusual places,
I have owned drafts; totally different outlook on life compared to QH’s or Shetlands. (My granddaughter loved to ride a haflinger named ‘Bob’, but there weren’t very many fences or doors that could withstand his head or rear, if he wanted to get ‘in’ or ‘out’ bad enough. ‘Bob’ was sold to a neighbor because Bob was ‘bomproof’. My grandaughter now owns an awesome QH gelding out of my stallion.
I have owned an Appendix QH, and I personally found him to be to ‘hot’ and not at all interested in a cattle ranch.
My children and grandchildren are very comfortable around horses, of all kinds, because they were raised around them, just as I was.
http://godsgentlegiants.org/our_herd
A lot of people seem to have the opinion that children should be helmeted, and the horse should be tacked up, in order for a child to sit on a horse. I totally disagree, depending on the horse, the child, and the experience of all (referencing to the draft).
When looking thru this website, I saw the child lying on the draft, I have pictures of my grandchildren lying on my QH mare in the pasture with other horses in the area. I also have pictures of my family riding horses, bareback, no saddle, no helmets, we were just riding.
I do believe with all my heart, the Lord has blessed me and my family.
Oh, and I am religious.
Just saying…
If you wish to risk the life of your children on the knowledge that a horse will not spook, well, I guess it is true, you can’t fix stupid, but, I would love to know….exactly how do you know for sure that a horse will not spook?
Cos, honestly, especially with a horse that big, you only get one chance.
Try telling this to the people who, like you, thought their child, raised with horses, needed no helmet…and died from a head injury that a helmet would have prevented.
Honestly, I pity you, I really do.
And I fear for your children.
Oh, and I sincerely hope you have left your foals undocked, because that was the way god intended them to be, after all, unlike the mutilated mares!
This is how what you said comes across: “I am religious, therefore it is okay for me to do things that would be harmful to horses and/or children if non-religious people did them.”
Or, “God has called me to be foolhardy with the health and safety of children and animals for whom I am responsible.”
Or, “It’s okay if I do something dangerously stupid because God will clean up after me.”
Or, “I am too special to practice forethought and good stewardship.”
No. You are not God’s special snowflake. God is not your overworked, underpaid personal assistant. And God did not put that stuff between your ears just to dampen the echoes in your skull. Kindly use it for its intended purpose.
Just back from teaching Sunday school, BTW, and our theme throughout Advent so far has been what Jesus wants us to do with our lives until He returns. Culpable ignorance is, er, not exactly on the list.
“No. You are not God’s special snowflake. God is not your overworked, underpaid personal assistant. And God did not put that stuff between your ears just to dampen the echoes in your skull. Kindly use it for its intended purpose.”
You’re awesome
I really think you guys are being hard on her. I don’t think she at all was saying that God blesses her because of her practices with horses, but just that in general God has blessed her and her family with a good life. I am definitely a helmet advocate. A childhood friend died at the age of 16 because of a fall…..way back before helmets were anything but a velvet covered tin can on your head for looks.
Her drafts look very well cared for and it takes a special person to go into a prison environment and work with juveniles.
If that’s what she meant to say, then I stand corrected. However, putting anybody on the back of a half-ton-plus of muscle and bone that is apt to do normal horsy things like spook in the middle of a field it has seen every day of its otherwise calm life, unless that person has both safety gear and the ability to regain control of said half-ton-plus, is still foolhardy!
I enjoyed reading this and I am glad to know I am not alone. My friends and fellow horse people have expressed great concern for the Liberty Equestrian program after the LU news letter published this image a few months ago, http://i49.tinypic.com/21ottfl.jpg This sparked our interest in the website and I have seen that horrific video of the oxer being taken in reverse, as well as videos of foals free jumping in front of the mare, while the she is being ridden in poor form. I’m glad you could bring it to the attention of far more people. It really is a shame, and the students are not to blame. Apparently, many responsible horse people that have some sort of affiliation with the university have pleaded with the Fallwells to remove themselves from any relationship with this Crystal person. I have also heard she is very air headed to deal with from other coaches in the same region of IHSA as Liberty. They are allowed to sit and observe for the first semester before they can actually compete, this is something she has not been able to get her head around. I hope for the students sake, and the university’s reputation that they can replace her and find a legitimate riding coach.
I’m less concerned about the student thrown up on a horse in sneakers for one quick picture, since Crystal explains it so beautifully later on in this blog. I wonder if she can equally explain riding a horse in a pelham with only one rein? “We were out of kimberwicks…” or perhaps “that particular horse was raised to be ridden in a pelham” or even “we were cleaning tack and didn’t get it all put back together before the photo op.”
Ugh.
Also, she has posted new videos in the last day on the serenecreekrun account. They are just as spectactular.
Yes! can’t say enough about “old school” teachers who taught/teach classical riding – stretching and balance, posting without stirrups until you want to cry, riding on a lunge until you have complete control of your seat and legs……..I had such a teacher when I was a teen and in the years since, I’ve been able to “stick” on a horse in situation when I’m sure I would’ve come off otherwise. The flip side to that is, I’ve been riding mostly young, green horses for so many people some things have gotten sloppy. I can’t post bareback an entire ride the way I used to…between riding many gaited horses and age, the muscles aren’t there anymore, LOL. Anyone know a good teacher along these lines (classical riding/centered riding/old school do-it-right) in the middle TN area? I’d like to take an occasional lesson again and haven’t found anyone who doesn’t do what this blog describes – i.e. so you want to jump? No problem, lets jump 3 ft your third lesson. I want someone who will (gently) scream at me for an hour and make me truly a better rider.
If you were in WI I would tell you to come my up my way. My serious students both love and fear my lunge lessons, in a good way honestly : )
I have now lost count of the reasons I love my trainer. She does not push or shove me (or any of her other students) into anything we are not ready for. On the other hand, she will gently push us toward what she knows we are ready to do. LOL I recently competed in my 2nd o/f class – crossrails. It was a total confidence builder for me – nothing more. The fact that we (pony and I) managed to receive an Honorable Mention out of 21 riders was total gravy. While they are sometimes frustrating – my trainer regularly has us do flat lessons. Back to the basics. It helps so much to do those, event though I sometimes feel like I totally suck! but the pay off is great. Her theory: two steps forward, 3 back. For every “new” thing – don’t forget about the old. Love her!
@WolfCreek,
What does being religious have to do with choosing to allow young children to lay on a horse without a helmet? Or choosing to breed your stallion/mares?
Cos, God will take care of the religious?…….er….which religion??
Which god, for that matter???
I believe in god, as a matter of fact, and I know god believes in me (which is a blessing because, well, we all have crappy days/weeks!) but I have never, ever, been able to get my head round the idea of a god that would require you to believe in “him” (newsflash, god isn’t a man) before “he” would look after you.
And, of course, pray to “him”.
Love is unconditional, either god loves humanity (and you would have to be god to love humanity some days. let’s face it) or god does not love humanity.
My dogs killed a kitten a while back.
My fault, my responsibility.
I received all sorts of weird advice from “dog lovers” as to how to punish my dogs.
I did not punish my dogs as I was the one that left them where they could get at the kittens and I was the one that allowed it to happen.
They are DOGS, they have no conscience!
I was really upset, gutted, in fact.
But I did not stop loving my dogs!
So, dear horse lover, who will you blame when your blameless, conscienceless horse spooks at something it has seen and you have not, and kills your child?
God??
Oh, no, wait, that is what the Christian Church invented the devil for, isn’t it?
You can blame the devil for spooking the horse.
Ah, yes, of course.
PS, sorry, Christians, I know you are not all whack jobs, and some of my friends are even christians, but honestly, you do leave yourself wide open to this sort of criticism, don’t you?
Actually I feel for all of the sane, rational Christians as they have to deal with a lunatic fringe that runs around screaming Harry Potter is the work of Satan and stuff like that. I can relate, since I’m a sane, rational animal rights activist who has to deal with a lunatic fringe that doesn’t think we should own animals!
Oh, definitely.
I really wish we has more actual followers of Christ who read the gospel around here, not ‘Christians’ who seem to want to make a God who hates all the things they do.
Just a thought when it comes to YouTube videos…there is software that allows you to download them straight from the site. If you can do that and reload them on a FHOTD YT account so we could all watch them (thus preventing a mass flame and inevitable removal by the time some of us get here), that’d be cool. I can pretty much guess what’s going on in half these things, but to actually see it is a whole different deal!
Thank you, I agree completely! And I love that everyone on this blog has an opinion, but is it really worth leaving your comments on youtube? I mean, what are the odds that the people posting the videos would be logical enough to take the advice? I never get to videos before they are taken down
Yes, please!
I never get to see anything.
Some additional gems I found on VirginiaEquestrian.com… the prices she’s asking for these horses?? Really??
http://www.virginiaequestrian.com/main.cfm?action=Classifieds&sub=view&ID=49655
$45,000? Are you KIDDING ME?
http://www.virginiaequestrian.com/main.cfm?action=Classifieds&sub=view&ID=49539
http://www.virginiaequestrian.com/main.cfm?action=Classifieds&sub=view&ID=49540
It’s really terrible that the video in this one no longer works… it really made me want to buy this horse, let me tell you. ;P ESPECIALLY for $35k. What a deal.
Hahaha, yes!! Those a fabulous, thanks for posting! BTW, the first and third are the same horse…that “Sonny” one that was jumping the oxer backwards. That’s absolutely RETARDED, $45,000 for a 5yo mutt gelding??? (Not that all mutt geldings are worthless, I know there are some wonderful mutt geldings out there, I just don’t think this one is worth 45k). Dang, she’s even more in lala-land than I thought…
Yes, I saw those ads as well…..those horses are average everyday horses…it’s a riot….she’d be lucky to get $2500 on this market….she acts all big and important and preys on unknowledgable people with $$$. Around here they’d have to be trained by a well known trainer and place in top rated national shows to fetch a price like that. She is indeed in la-la land.
I don’t know, when you see some of the other pictures and videos, and how these poor horses are doing their best to haul these not-so well trained riders, especially the ‘flying nun’ over the 3’6″ fence, maybe they are worth it!
I’m still looking for a good trainer for my kids.
The last one we went to claimed to be BHS (British Horse Society)trained (we are in UK), and yet was letting the kids more or less do what they wanted for the half hour lesson. The kids were kicking unnecessarily, banging the ponies’ mouths, were unbalanced, had no control over their horses, and she would just stand there in the middle posing. I felt like getting out there and taking over the lesson it was that bad!
The ponies were all on auto pilot. And things didn’t improve on our 2nd visit.
I used to work as a groom in a riding school and there were two instructors. One was too critical – you couldn’t get anything right – and the other was too nice – you did everything right. It was morale sapping when you thought you’d cracked something with the nice one only to be yelled at by the grumpy one the next week for doing the same thing.
I’m still searching for a nice, balanced, knowledgable instructor…
Can you guys wait to flame until we’ve all had a chance to view the pathetic videos??? Sheesh!
Hmmm. Her webost eis interesting. The short vid clips on YouTube (under serenecreekrun) show me riders who have no idea of how to set up for a fence, or find their lines and distances. They just hurl themselves at the jumps… and no, yelling UP!!! does not improve jumping. br>
THIS pic
has this caption under it…
Very collected with a flowing canter. Ridden and loved by everyone at SCRRC. Ridden and trained Crystal VL Rivers. Look for Sonny Boy at your local hunter show.
I am sure he is loved and all and a decent guy… but that is not collected. Let alone “very” collected. And why on earth would you be schooling – even over low crossrails – without a helmet??!!
That appears to be Crystal herself….and note her heels are up.
Sorry for the typos etc.. I am still trying to figure out this system and hit REPLY a bit too soon… *blush* … that should have read – her website is interesting…
My trainer has me started right. I only just started regular lessons in September and I’m still just working on my diagonals. He only ever makes mention of starting to canter when I’m 100% that day and he never means that day just some time in the future. I admit I could use some time riding without the stirrups though.
Here’s a link to Crystal’s MySpace page…..go to the photos and you’ll see even her own children riding with their heels up. One photo claims she is practicing for the “Nationals”. No one around here has ever seen her show…she’s taken a few kids to a local college’s shows and that’s it. I don’t even think Crystal could place in a local fun show to be honest. I’ll say more later….for some reason this website is really lagging and it’s a pain to type in this form.
Darn, need to brush up on HTML. My whole comment ended up being a link….so click on the whole thing and it will take you to River’s MySpace Photos. if theyaren’t gone by now.
kirri says:
“My dogs killed a kitten a while back. My fault, my responsibility. I received all sorts of weird advice from “dog lovers†as to how to punish my dogs.
I did not punish my dogs as I was the one that left them where they could get at the kittens and I was the one that allowed it to happen.â€
Do you have children? Grandchildren? Family? Friends? Neighbors? Co-workers?
Now, you are aware that your dogs are capable of killing. So, what precautions have you implemented in order to keep a child, and everyone else safe from the dogs whom you know are capable of being vicious enough to kill?
Not that your dogs ‘ever’ would, but, what if something happened that was totally unexpected? Your dogs decided that a child or someone else was another ‘target’?
Since, you did not feel it was necessary to teach your dogs that killing is wrong, in the dogs mind, do they now think that killing is acceptable?
You did however take responsibility for the death of the kitten, it was in fact your fault. Good for you! So, how do you know that your dogs will not someday turn on a human?
What precautions are you taking?
Additional clothing? Restraints?
Heres’ some information for you to ponder,
More than 4.7 million people annually are attacked by dogs, and some of these attacks were fatal.
78% of the human fatalities were by dogs in their own yard.
39% of the fatalities involved multiple dogs.
9% of the fatalities involved chained dogs.
Some of these dogs have never shown aggression toward anyone, or anything.
What preventative actions are you taking to make sure your dogs will not add to the 4.7 million victims?
Let me guess, you are always present with your dogs, and your presence alone will protect a potential victim?
Well, the horse owners and trainers were present, Oh, but wait, that’s different?
Lets compare the numbers; 4.7 million dog attacks versus 102,000 horse related accidents (over a 3 year period),
66% of the horse related accidents occurred while riding.
Between 20% – 30% of the injuries were while dismounted – while leading, grooming or playing around the horse – and MOST of those injuries were by being kicked.
There’s always more than one way to look any situation. Well, maybe we all need to look in own backyard.
Jenny Islander says;
“No. You are not God’s special snowflake. God is not your overworked, underpaid personal assistant. And God did not put that stuff between your ears just to dampen the echoes in your skull. Kindly use it for its intended purpose.†(fhotd seemed to really like that comment)
My reply? “I am MY GOD’s special little snowflakeâ€, (as are all people whom have faith and live by his words are). And had you read further back into the previous posts, my religious statement was in reference to another comment which was made earlier. (Which I saw no-one else refer to.)
I’m just saying, . . .
Jenny Islander says;
“Culpable ignorance is, er, not exactly on the list.â€
You teach Sunday School? Have you ever thought of practicing what you teach? Well, I withdraw that statement; I would haf’t to know what you teach.
kirri says;
‘’Oh, and I sincerely hope you have left your foals undocked, because that was the way god intended them to be, after all, unlike the mutilated mares!’’
I am totally confused by this statement. I have no idea what this means, ‘foals undocked, mutilated mares?’ You have me confused with someone else, or something else.
Your apology is accepted.
You know,
when I wandered upon this site I was impressed with the way it ‘seemed’ that people cared about the mis-treatment of horses. Rollkur, the rescues, and it seemed good hearted people trying to make a difference.
I was impressed with the seemingly straight forward approach in which people were actually trying to help, as a group.
I have however figured out, if my lifestyle and my opinions differ from the majority, I need to learn some defense maneuvers.
Hello,
It has come to my attentiontion that someone was slandering me on your website. I have never read or submitted to the sight. However, I would personally like to thank you. As a result of your liable comments, the attention to our website and business has increased. Since these riduculous comments have come out we have leased with a show contract one of our geldings, we now have 3 new very happy youth students, and have taken deposit on one of our horses for sale. I want to thank you again and welcome you out to the farm as my guest. It would be my pleasure to take you out on a trail ride. That is the very least I could do. Keep up the good work. Good luck and God Bless. Feel free to call and make an appointment.
Crystal VL Rivers
1. No one was slandering you. It’s an opinion site. In my opinion, your riding sucks and you’re unqualified to teach beginners based upon the INCREDIBLY poor judgment shown in letting kids who should still be doing flat work jump large fences.
2. There are generally two responses to being featured on this site. One is “I’m getting a lawyer” which usually lasts until they actually speak to a lawyer and find out what that costs. The second is “Ha, I got more business because you featured me.” I always figure that the number of people who claim the second approach is a great defense against those who use the first approach and argue economic damages or business interference. So, by all means, go for it!
OK, thanks for proving my theory correct about detecting crazy uneducated horse owners/back-yard kolor breeders, and sucky trainers/coaches, none of you can spell the word “website” correctly!!
WEBSITE WEBSITE WEBSITE!!!! While yes, you can “see” it with your “sight” that’s not how you spell it!!!!
I think it comes from that “god-given” superiority complex that makes them think “Ooohh I’ll show dem hows learned I’s is. I’lls puts all dese letters in dis words…yups, I’ms smarts I am!”
They have “cliniques” over at Serene Creek Run too…..maybe they hold them with “rouge” horses
So, in just a few short days everyone in the area flocked to Serene Creek for business because they read this blog? Can’t be slander then……..maybe Fuglyblog should be getting a commission.
No, no, no, silly Crystal…nobody was slandering you! Slander has to do with the spoken word, not the written one…that would be LIBEL, dear.
OK please don’t laugh at me… I’ve been a DQ for a long time now and haven’t done any jumping in a helluva long time…
I understand you aren’t *supposed* to jump an oxer backwards, but can someone please explain why it is so dangerous?
Is it because the horse can’t see the 2nd pole and doesn’t know the fence is wider than normal?
yes, that is exactly why. Its potentially dangerous if the horse comes down on the lower pole. Its something that is taught from the get-go when you are first learning how to take oxers or other spreads. ALWAYS jump with the lower pole in front.
As it is, oxers take extra skill and work on the riders part to make sure the horse approaches the jump correctly so as to take the oxer in perfect stride and not overjump and possibly get hung up in the poles.
So its really a safety issue more than an equitation or tradition issue.
And as a VT student who is very active with the equestrian program here..we would NEVER EVER EVER be allowed to do any of this!! Safety first! (which SHOULD be the number one priority for any teaching program!)
Absolutely right! Hokieheather10 said it best! And no one is going to laugh at you for admitting to not knowing why something is…you asked the question and were inquisitive, nothing wrong with that! Good on you for furthering your education!
Fugly, the problem is that YOUR opinion is held dear by so many people who don’t have ideas of their own.
You know whenever you post something, your minions are going to swarm that person’s website and videos with shockingly nasty comments. This is something of which you obviously approve, since you have to be aware that it’s going on.
I don’t always agree with you, and I rarely even read past the first page to the comments section because of the single-minded ugliness of your followers. I’d like to see videos of their every time, perfect rides, since they’re obviously much better riders than the rest of us. Or so their comments would lead me to believe.
I happen to know that one of your most avid followers is a BYB of the most horrendous kind, and yet she doesn’t see herself at ALL in your rantings. Makes me wonder how intelligent most of your readership is.
Whether or not in YOUR OPINION Ms. Rivers should be training or have the Liberty Equestrian Team, many others obviously don’t agree with with you.
I have a feeling someone with a very large bone to pick with Ms. Rivers sent you a heads up on her just to stir up crap. Perhaps it’s the person who is extremely irate that THEY didn’t get the Liberty contract they were so desperate for. Those musings of course are just MY opinion.
I reject the idea that I have minions. I am not the Rajneesh. I have an opinion, like many people, and I broadcast that opinion, and some people agree with me and some people do not.
“You know whenever you post something, your minions are going to swarm that person’s website and videos with shockingly nasty comments. This is something of which you obviously approve, since you have to be aware that it’s going on.”
What would you suggest I do about it? I am not able to control other people’s actions. Should I e-mail them and scold them? Give me a break. I do not take those actions myself. See above, I do not have any special power to control the actions of others. If I did, people would not be breeding so many crappy horses, nor would they be sending horses to kill anymore. I wish I had the power that some people accuse me of having!
“I happen to know that one of your most avid followers is a BYB of the most horrendous kind, and yet she doesn’t see herself at ALL in your rantings.”
That happens quite a bit. Your point?
“Whether or not in YOUR OPINION Ms. Rivers should be training or have the Liberty Equestrian Team, many others obviously don’t agree with with you.”
When did I post that they did not? I accept the fact that others disagree with me about, well, any topic that you care to name. So what? Relevant why?
“I have a feeling someone with a very large bone to pick with Ms. Rivers sent you a heads up on her just to stir up crap.”
They may have, but it does not change the reality of the videos and photographs that Ms. Rivers posted herself, which were the basis for my blog entry.
I’m a recreational rider and I am sure these guys would have a good laugh at me too. Not everyone has the $$ or the chance to work with good trainers. But I could laugh about it. And I’d never in a million years present myself as a trainer, instructor, or coach.
Ms. Rivers has absolutely no credentials to be a collegiate level coach. She has bragged to locals about “never having had a riding lesson”. She has no one she trained under that she can name, no college degree or riding team experience, no certifications…..nothing. She is at best a recreational rider who claims she knows just about all riding discipines well enough to teach them from dressage to barrel racing. Nearly everyone in the local equine community expressed shock when she was named LU’s coach because of her reputation. She has constantly ripped off people, not paid her bills, and falsely accused men for gain. She’s been evicted from several horse farms in the area. The Blue Ridge Horse Force (a show sanctioning organization) dropped her shows there were so many complaints about the shows. Anybody who has watched her ride or teach knows she doesn’t have a clue of what she is doing. If she had just presented herself as someone running a family barn who could teach recreational riding then it wouldn’t be as much of an issue. The large bone you mention was created by Crystal herself with all her lies. And there are many who just hate to see LU students get hurt–both physically from unsafe practices and mentally when they someday realize they were “had”.
I met one girl at a horseshow who wanted to attend LU and ride for them until she found out who the coach was. This girl is an excellent rider and was dismayed about LU’s choice and will not be attending there now.
I am glad this blog picked up on the story, because now when you Google her you get a little more info about her than her own grandiose opinions.
Oh one more thing……those cute foals on her webite and Youtube….one of them was killed when it was only a few weeks/months old because Crystal put it in a pen with a stallion. That ought to speak volumes right there. (I was told by a person in the know….I did not observe it for myself)
Thank you for your concern. Our foals are with their dams until weaned and never,never,never,never are the mares or foals or geldings put in with our stallions. EVER That is what happens when you depend on others for information. Now we have really nice stallions and very nice foals. A few are for sale, If you are interested feel free to make an appointment. You can see them on the website and in many newspapers and local magazines.
Crystal Rivers
What are your credentials besides being “self-taught”? Where have you shown? Google brings up no mention of you winning anything anywhere.
Who have you trained under? How many paint horse points have you won? (Can riders/handlers be looked up in the paint horse database)?
How many years of riding lessons have you had?
Where did you learn dressage? What level can you yourself ride at?
What certifications do you have? Have you ever been on a riding team or pony club?
The NBHA and IBRA have several years of data online and you aren’t mentioned. Yet you told people you compete in barrel racing. You are trying to sell a horse for 20K that you say runs 1D times yet has never been run in competition.
No one has seen you ride at even one local show. Not one.
Opinions, as you obviously know, are not the same as FACT, and the FACT is that Ms. Rivers has proven herself, via over 75 videos on the serenecreekrun account (which have now been deleted, because she just LOVED all the attention she was getting!), countless photos on her Web “sight”, MySpace, Facebook, etc, to be totally incompetent at anything to do with horses. She has exhibited blatant disregard for the safety of her riders and horses for the sake of the almighty dollar, and because of these FACTS, is unfit to run a barn, coach a team, or own a horse.
I was asked to comment on pics of a student going over a oxer backwards and the pic of a team member sitting atop a horse with sneakers on.
Appreciate all the attention to our photos and videos. The student going over the oxer was supposed to go past that jump onto another one but went over the oxer backwards. The training jumps are pvc and she did a good job going over it picked her lead after that and went on to the next jump. Not a good practice to do oxers or rollbacks backwards.
The team member in sneakers had never ridden a horse but three times before getting in the saddle for this photo opt. It was a fun day at the farm and a day for photos. I wanted to have her to be included in the pics and had her get up and have her picture taken like all the others. This is not the one I would have chosen but it was chosen for a ad by mistake. She did not own a pair of riding pants or riding boots at the time but it would have been unfair to exclude her. I did complain about the picture as well.
We really do appreciate all the attention you have given our farm, the horses, our KID CLU stallion,the students and myself. I would suggest that you make a copy of the article with its comments, fold them in half and place them in your bible. If you don’t have one, borrow one. Take it to church and I am pretty sure you might learn something that day from whatever the preacher is preaching. Seriously, I wish you all the best and have a great holiday.
Crystal Rivers
So, since you’re here – what IS the HYPP status of your stallion?
Hint: You won’t find it in the Bible.
ROFL! FHOTD, you have the uncanny ability to always know just what to say and when!
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in ages!
Here’s another link to a recent ad: she can teach “beginner to circuit riding”
Crystal Ad
Oh good, you got my message on your video! I was wondering, because you deleted the video without responding AND blocked me from your YouTube channel (that was cute!). Here’s another question for you: if it was an accident, why was the rider not reprimanded for being irresponsible and why were the picture and video posted? All the trainers I’ve ridden with would have been livid with me for not steering my horse properly and doing something so dangerous as taking an oxer backwards.
Riding instructors/trainers have a serious responsibility to teach safe practices and fundamentals without caving in to pressure to move their students along before they’re ready. Anything less is gross negligence IMHO. I was at Equine Affaire a few years ago in Columbus, Ohio when Darren Chiacchia dismissed a young lady half way through his jumping clinic because she didn’t have the skills to take instruction at that level. He tried to do it tactfully but I’m sure she was very humiliated. WE all felt bad for the young lady, but it was a good lesson for her and everyone else in the arena that day. Darren was badly injured on a XC course and was in a coma, but is now recovering and more committed to safety than ever. If an Olympic level rider can be hurt, what does that say to the rest of us?
Unfortunately anyone with a computer can print up business cards and post a website with their “training” credentials. People who don’t know any better are easy prey for people who don’t take their responsibilities seriously. We had a guy at our barn who had business cards adverting himself as a WP trainer but didn’t know how to teach ground manners, lunge correctly, trailer load, or refrain from smoking in the barn. He practiced some weird self-taught bastardized version of Native American horse training techniques that consisted of having horses sniff his armpits. After numerous complaints from borders he left…thank God! I shudder to think that he may be out there scamming people
For years Ms. Rivers has worn dark sunglasses when photographed or printed distance shots or shots from the back. And don’t the horses in this photo look thin?
I know that this comment is a little late, but it is what it is! I went to a christian college and really enjoyed the academics there. However, I chose that specific college because they had a riding program and an IHSA team. Much to my disappointment the program was a joke. The horses were abused with beginners wearing spurs, ill fitting tack, improper training methods. The stud’s were kept in stalls and beaten if they even talked to another horse. One 2yo stud colt was so terrorized by his handling that he just stood in the corner of his stall with his face in a corner and wouldn’t move a muscle unless it was the shiver in fear. They lined all the mares along a fence, tied them up and took the stud’s from mare to mare… One of the studs got cast in his stall at night and died, they then took him and dumped him in a pit in the middle of the pasture where all of the horses were residing, and they led “trail rides” past… started colts as long yearlings… had a major case of strangles due to not vaccinating, had a foal die from it… and all of this was in the 6 months that I tried to stick it out.
Not only were their horse training methods terrible, the main coach was more of a halter person, and I learned nothing other than how to judge for halter type quarter horses… my riding did not improve as I knew more than the trainers did about english-style riding, and I taught my english coach how to set up a jump course ::sighs::.
On the plus side, the horses did get lots of food, had their teeth and feet done regularly, and I think the college’s program his turned around a bit since then. Would I ever go back, heck no! Did I learn a lot, yes I did, and I will never ever treat a horse that way.
This Crystal lady keeps thanking everyone for all the great attention to her site and videos but then she yanked everything off of youtube. If she’s so happy and flattered by all the attention she could have left them up for everyone to enjoy. I’m even pretty sure comments can be disabled if she was getting swamped with comments from this site. In the mean time… Re post Crystal! Your fans want to see!!!
Now, maybe it’s just me… but I LOVE how she’s all happy and thanking you for all the attention her horses, videos, students, self, etc have been getting from this site, yet ALL the links pertaining to her with the exception of her myspace have been pulled from the web.
Something tells me she’s blowing a load of smoke about all this supposed positive attention.
Three words: Full. Of. It.
Excellent read, a little disappointed I couldn’t see the vids before they were pulled. Ah well. Sure proves her point! “I love all this attention! No one look at my videos!”
Well….there’s one thing she changed on MySpace….she said she wanted a 6’4′ blonde who was built like there is no tomorrow….and had been there done that……..(well, she has) Not such a great advertisement for a “Christian” riding coach
Has anyone else heard the rumors about her being an ex-stripper? Its a very rampant story from her area….I have heard this myself from several differnt people…..
Rumor? Pics/ads/eyewitness reports or it didn’t happen. I could start a rumor that Fugsy is in a bisexual polyamorous relationship and the choir leader in an extremely conservative Christian church at the same time, as far as that goes.
Hey that’s all old news…
But really, I couldn’t care less if someone was a stripper. All the more power to them for making more money in a night than I probably make in a week.
I do, however, care if they let kids with no seat or leg jump 3’6, etc.
I just stumbled across this einstein’s youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eknj9Y2yjWQ&feature=fvsr
The puzzling part is not only does he/she/they call themselves ‘genetically correct’, but in the case of this mare who they identify as being N/H, they go on to say “Once she is finished showing, her genetic capabilities are as astonishing as her physical appearance and will make her much sought after as a broodmare.” Are they serious?
Is this going to end?
N/H, short upright pasterns, a relatively narrow chest, front legs pinned underneath the shoulder… I could go on forever, explaining why this mare is NOT perfect!
PS: Notice that they have no video clip of her moving whatsoever? $10 says she’s super-lame from the upright pasterns (and the almost inevitable navicular disease that accompanies it!)
In general, I’ve been lucky with instructors/trainers. I think the best so far was an instructor in Cornwall. I went to him for a two hour corss country lesson and it was absolutley amazing: he explaiend what he wanted me to do, he didn’t midn me asking questions that I felt were stupid (I had no idea what a half halt was until very recently: he managed to tell me in one sentence what took a whole article in Your Horse to explain LOL). He was very tactful in his corrections and I felt very confident, considering I was on a strange horse at a faCILITY i’D NEVER BEEN TO, AND MY JUMPING EXPERIENCE WAS (ignore the capitals please) somewhat limited. Cheers, Richard!
Crystal is now saying on her website that she is turning her indoor arena into 66 stalls and building a new indoor arena. There’s already 24 stalls and the place is only 18 acres. First of all, she doesn’t own the place. She doesn’t have any money. If she has found yet another sugar daddy I hope the county isn’t dumb enough to approve 90 horses on 18 acres. And of course there would be even less turnout with another large building built.
Liberty University should just buy the place so they don’t have to build their own. And get a new coach. Problem solved.
<a href="http://www.serenecreekrunridingcenter.faithweb.com/"Crystals Latest Plans"
I am not confident in Liberty University’s ability to evaluate talent or ability to perform a job- my experience with them is that they focus more on subscription to a highly aggressive and rigidly dogmatic version of Christianity. Then again, that was almost ten years ago when I was looking at colleges, maybe they’ve gotten better.
(Just in case you were wondering, that isn’t sour grapes. They offered me a full ride even though I didn’t apply to their school. There was mis-communication with a nice lady at a college fair who probably had the best of intentions about the quality of academics so I ended up on their prospective student list and literally could not get off it. I sometimes wonder if my parents hadn’t moved out of state if they wouldn’t still be calling.)
Liberty U. is very into their sports teams and they LOVE to win. Their women’s basketball team won the national championship a few years ago. The equestrian team is just a club sport for now. I think you’ll see a new coach when their contract is up. Whoever hired Crystal just took her word and didn’t investigate her credentials. I think they are sorry now. She’ll be the coach till the contract is up or she really screws up…and I think personally the screwing up part will happen first.
oops…forgot to say to scroll down on Crystal’s website and read the caption under the second photo
And the link didn’t post right…grrrr
Crystal’s Latest Plans