The AR people are coming! Hide the starving horses!
Nov 24 2009
Here we go again…
In the wake of the Caton Ranch debacle, already discussed here, we have some “insiders” in the horse world doing their best to cover up for her and using the alarmist tactic of claiming that if this situation gets nationwide attention, it will just provide fodder for the Skeery Animal Rights Activists, who want to take away ALL of your horses! (Folks, don’t write these e-mails. They ALWAYS wind up in my in-box. ALWAYS.)
From: United Horsemen’s Front [mailto:info@unitedhorsemensfront.org]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:48 PMSubject: RE: Washington State Horse Abuse / Snohomish County Animal Control
Case # 09-971621The United Horsemens Front has been involved at a mediation level within
days after this whole situation blew up.We are taking the approach of working with Judy to give away and sell
some her horses. Judy is now down from 56 head to 17. She also just had 30
tons of alfalfa delivered to her place and her grain bins filled.All of the horses left will be monitered by animal control, and as it
stands right now she is in compliance with animal controls demands of her.There is a lot of emotional rhetoric circulating the internet. Let me
restate that drawing media attention to this will only give the animal
rights groups more ammunition against the whole horse industry. They will
twist this in ways that most can’t imagine. This is already happening.My desire is that everyone know that the situation is being handled and
will continue to be closely watched by many. It is a very unfortunate
situation that is getting better.We will continue to help Judy reduce her herd and sell more horses.
Dave Duquette
Executive Director
United Horsemens Front
541-571-7588
Hi Dave! *waves* You know, I’m glad you’re helping Judy reduce her herd. Really I am. But let me explain to you what Judy will do, if you sweep this under the rug and she is not prosecuted. Judy will move to a new state, where she will again acquire far more horses than she can properly care for. People will sell or give her horses eagerly, seeing her nice truck and trailer and hearing about her long history of show ring wins and show sponsorships. What a great home, hey? Surely our horse will get fantastic care!
When you don’t OWN UP to the people in your discipline who FUCK UP, and you COVER UP for them, YOU LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY. You cannot now say that your top concern is the horses, because by helping this person avoid prosecution and a criminal record that would follow her wherever she goes, you are failing to protect her future equine victims – and they will exist. They pretty much always do.
Let me give you an analogy: This is like a church covering up for a priest who is molesting children and using the alarmist tactic of saying that if the truth comes out, it will hurt the church/the religion/the entire world. The truth is that no one wants bad publicity, but covering up and hushing up looks a LOT worse than simply owning up and coming out publicly against the offender.
And no, the world is not full of Skeery Animal Rights Activists who want to stop all of you from owning horses. I’m telling you – I KNOW these people. I HANG OUT with some of these people. And the VAST MAJORITY of animal rights activists are FINE with the fact that I own AND RIDE horses. (I do get brownie points for riding in a Wintec, aka not a dead cow, LOL!) The percentage of animal rights activists who really want to take your horses away is like the percentage of pro-lifers who think it’s justifiable to shoot an abortion doctor. In both cases, the tiny lunatic fringe is wildly overstated by opponents of the entire movement.
There is nothing being twisted here. JUDY CATON STARVED HER HORSES, some nearly to death. This has been verified by numerous witnesses. The situation has gone on for a very long time and Judy has had ample time to (a) place her horses in homes that can feed them and (b) sell her expensive shit so she could feed the horses in the meantime.  What excuse is there for failing to do so? Now the horses are getting fed, because it all broke publicly? What a crock. This woman should not be allowed to keep a single horse – period. She has already shown she lacks sufficient judgment to care for an animal and do what is in its best interests. It’s that simple.
89 comments to “The AR people are coming! Hide the starving horses!”
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The really sad part about providing the abuse with hay and grain is that we just continue to ENABLE the actions. It is obvious that this hoarder can not even identify with the fact they are STARVING their animals to death. Something has got to be done. Why can’t our officials step up when they are actually needed?!
Love it when people pull out the SKEERY AR card. Just love it. Makes you want to smack someone upside the head. Fugs…this needs to be a bumper sticker or maybe a t-shirt “When you don’t OWN UP to the people in your discipline who FUCK UP, and you COVER UP for them, YOU LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY”.
“She also just had 30 tons of alfalfa delivered to her place and her grain bins filled.”
If Caton paid for this, why didn’t she do it before?
If she did NOT pay for this, who did?
And what’s going to happen when it runs out?
Talk about a bandaid. And as someone struggling to make do, whose horses STILL are shiny, fat and happy, I’d love to have my dedication rewarded with 30 tons of alfalfa and a load of grain. But no. Let’s reward the asshats. Because it’s all about the horses… not. It’s all about the 15 minutes in the public eye.
I wanna join the The United Horsemens Front! Then I can go buy a whole load of starved horses (Im sure CBER is still in business) and say “Oh NO! The Animal wellfare people are coming! Cover my ass!! – That way I can have horses I can’t afford and not worry about it! *rolls eyes*
Boy – there never is an end to CBER (type) Enablers. So out of kindness to do what’s right for the horses, we turn a blind eye to the perpetrator. Wonderful.
Want to bet folks are feeding, watering, scooping poop, cleaning the house and washing the truck?
Well at least most of the horses are not in her care anymore. My husband and I have reining horses and know what kind of work and money goes into them and cannot imagine anyone turning that kind of investment into starved unusable animals. Not that any animal should ever end up like that, but I would expect it a little more out of an uneducated horse owner with a backyard horse, not someone with such knowledge and experience and high dollar horses. It is very sad.
I would like to know if this is the same Dave Duquette that I saw kick the crap out of a horse with long shanked spurs on and rip on the poor horses face during practice late at night at the NWRCHA show at Brasada Ranch this summer. If so……….. he sounds perfectly qualified to run the United Horsemans Front…… LOL. Everyone who was watching kept hoping the horse would dump him and kick the crap out of him. I guess now I understand why he is covering up for her. He surely isn’t in it for the horses sake.
Hey, I want to know that too! Anybody else ever see this guy ride?
Wouldn’t surprise me. Can’t have those Skeery Animal Rights Activists around telling us not to beat the crap out of our horses!
It’s amazing how few of the good horsemen/women I know run around squawking about their fear of the Skeery Animal Rights Activists. Interesting, that.
There is only one Dave Duquette that I am aware of. Surely it will be no surprise that a few others on the list of their supporters are well known for their abusive tactics.
In the world of 12-step programs, people like the spokesman for United Horsemens Front are called ENABLERS. By stepping in and bailing the horses out (which is a good thing — trouble is the people who got the horses INTO the mess are “bailed out” too), the enablers eliminate the need for the person with the problem to learn an important lesson. Ms Caton should have to stand up and take respoinsibility for her actions and suffer through some kind of punishment — fine, jail time, community service, SOMETHING. It’s like spouses who cover for the addicts they marry, making excuses for the person missing work or whatever. It’s a misguided sort of “love,” I guess. Yeah, the animals have food NOW, but the person with the problem can sell that 30 tons of hay for money (I’m assuming Ms Caton did not have to pay for that 30T, that it just showed up thanks to the generosity of the UHF) and then there you are.
And as you say, she’ll move on and amass another herd. Second verse same as the first.
A good way to make people own up to their misdeeds is by doing good deeds in return, with lots of publicity surrounding the case from beginning to end. Even the runaway bride of a few years ago paid her penance by mowing lawns and had a television camera crew following her along as she did her community service.
That’s over 1 horse for every week of the year! “Oh sugar, it’s Monday again. Time to get another horse.”
“Want to bet folks are feeding, watering, scooping poop, cleaning the house and washing the truck?” (drsgjunky)
Ooh, ooh, me me! My horses are starving! Starving, I say! And up to their knees in manure! I need someone to scoop poop, clean the house, do the landscaping, wash the truck, etc! Cooking and buying hay would be great, too! Oh, and could you chauffeur me to shopping, church, and my Dr. appointments? I promise, you’ll have SUCH a warm feeling in your heart!
Just in case anyone takes me seriously, my horses are both 5s. And shiny. Even in their winter coats.
Ruthie
I’d almost bet you the place is surrounded by more Enablers standing guard/running interference than Walla Walla state Penitentiary (which is where she should reside).
Who called in the out of state posse? Don’t tell she’s a member of that to. I guess it’s time to polish up that image.
Maybe they need to amend their Mission Statement. I don’t see anything in it that says they bail out/cover up horse abusers.
56 horses–overbreeding much? She still has 17 which is 17 too many. Is the United Horseman’s Fund (whatever the hell that is) supervising to ensure that the horses actually get the feed? When will she start getting more horses? She doesn’t even have to move as there appears to be no punishment for her actions at all.
And fer sure, since there is a lunatic fringe of AR people out there, we should always cover up any animal abuse; yep, that is the answer all righty.
A Bay Horse says:
That’s over 1 horse for every week of the year! “Oh sugar, it’s Monday again. Time to get another horse.â€
======
Yeah….
“Sweety… Did we forget to order hay on Monday? Drats. Oh well, there’s always next Monday.”
Wow.. Down to 17 horses. What punishment. Anyone wanna guess which ones she cherry picked?
“It is a very unfortunate situation that is getting better.” Now there’s a voice of reasoning. I bet the starving horses were just waiting for those words to chew on.
Unfortunate??? You mean like it was an accident that horses didn’t get fed? Opssy. Sorry..
Christ.. I’ll bet I can find someone on Craigslist in 5 minutes who will be happy to feed if I paid them. Not a chance in hell you could find some horse crazed teenage girls would would gladly give up weekends/evenings to feed? Want me to send one or two over?
The excuse bucket is bottomless. Play that sympathy card.
Speaking of wintec…I love my synthetic saddles. They are light weight, easy to take care of, quiet (don’t squeek and make noises while you ride) and they were a bundle less than similar name-brand leather saddles. Fugs, could you do a blog on synthetic vs. leather tack?
How many of you are terrified of CPS taking your kids away? Hopefully none, unless you’re cooking meth in the basement or inviting creepy uncle Chester to babysit every weekend. There is absolutely no reason to have a problem with animal rights unless you’re intending to violate an animal’s rights. I personally have been an advocate of animal rights for the past 13 years (vegetarian/few stints of veganism). I absolutely believe that animals should have the same rights as humans when it comes to quality of life– they need to have their needs met and there should not be any exceptions to that. I don’t believe we should throw red paint on people wearing fur or set off bombs in animal testing labs, because that just makes us look like the lunatics people like to label us as. But I don’t think animals should be exploited, abused, or neglected. With that being said, I am a long time dressage rider. I have had friends who were even more into animal rights than I am, and they have come out to see my horse and see what I do with him, and they were THRILLED at the life he has. Animal rights activists are not going to bother pet owners unless the pet owner is doing something they’re not supposed to (or not doing what they are supposed to) with their animals. The thing that throws red flags out at them is when issues are happening and nothing is being done about it. Sweep it under the rug so that nobody knows it’s happening. Any logical person (including us crazy animal rights activists) can easily predict that there are going to be a few bad apples in any bunch. If there is an abuse case uncovered and it is made well known, made obvious that that behavior is not condoned in that person’s peer group, that person receives natural consequences, and the group insists that the behavior is not tolerated, that puts activists minds at ease. If there is an abuse case uncovered, and everyone in that peer group tries to justify reasons for the occurance instead of admitting it was wrong, quickly fix/hide the problem, and not hold the abuser accountable, THAT is what is going to make the entire group look bad. Didn’t we all learn this in Kindergarden?
Except for that whole humane euthansia thing..
Oops, the last reply was supposed to just be a general comment, not a reply to TBs Rock. But I did want to say, on the topic of synthetic tack, the Saxon Equileather Field Boots are frickin AWESOME. I wish they would hurry up and make their dress boots in slim calf; if anyone knows where I can get them, please inform me! But if anyone needs a good comfortable field boot, I HIGHLY recommend these. They are like walking around in sneakers– so comfortable.
I had an awful experience with those. I had 1 pair-they broke after maybe 10 rides, and they weren’t too small or anything. Contacted company, they sent me a new pair, and they broke too. They were also falling apart at the seams and foot.
My saxon equileather boots’ zippers broke (the zipper the boot split when I was walking to get my horse) the 4th time I wore them. Of course, it was during a show, and of course they were my first tall boots ever and I didn’t have a back up pair. I still rode, but I taped the back of my boots together with electrical tape, which I was using to braid/band my horses hair. Any suggestions on how to prevent that from happening? I don’t know much about english riding/ equipment. I was winging it that day, with some help from friends.
Thanks!
Oops! Well they worked really well for me =) I have had three pairs, and each pair held up for about a year before they started getting scruffy looking. I never had zipper problems, but they did start peeling away from the sole or get kind of cracked/torn looking around the toe area after about a year. But, I ride every day, and multiple horses on the weekends, and even my leather boots usually get pretty messed up after a while so I thought these were still a pretty good deal at $80 a year! My biggest thing is comfort, especially on the weekends when I ride multiple horses and do some teaching, I liked that I could just wear them all day walking circles in the arena or riding or whatever.
Per Dave: “Let me restate that drawing media attention to this will only give the animal rights groups more ammunition against the whole horse industry. They will twist this in ways that most can’t imagine.”
Following this logic, the people who are committed to helping the animals that Dave is also trying to help are the bad guys? WHAT? Oh right, because THEY don’t believe in helping the true “victim” in this case- Queen Asshat -like Dave here does.
What F’d-up, powder puff Columbian farm did he come from? I bet he and his clan also believe in food stamps for the too-lazy-to-get-off-their-asses.
This is what happens when our society believes in helping people because “it’s not their fault” and “they didn’t mean to do it” and “they are so sorry for what happened”/(they caused!). And this is certainly NOT just within the horse industry.
Is anyone else tired of these stories yet and it isn’t even Dec yet?! We need euth clinics and bans on breeding excessive horses sorry pros I don’t think byb are the ones breeding 30 plus a year for futurities and racing.
Let’s get a few facts straight, up front.
Duquette doesn’t give a rat’s ass about horses…just what the next competition will pay out and if others come home causing too much work, time and no quick payout….he and his princess (I’d check other adjectives first) want them gone. Because they operate on a thin money margin and a thin ethical one to boot.
Duquette’s game is about perpetuating his easy, cheap breeding, competition game with a pay back at the final insult to the equine. And you know what?…he still gets asshats to play with him.
BTW…he is not one of the most intelligent humans on the planet. Certainly that is not something that gets in the way of him selling to slaughter. p.s. he’ll tell you he doesn’t sell to slaughter, but won’t admit that he has other do the dirty deed. Priceless!
And the AQHA has another prized advocate (poster child) for their cause! Yeah! Right. And chickens have teeth.
So sick of these F’ing trainers and Breeders. I have fired one trainer because of the way he trains. People that support these stupid ass trainers and breeders are just as guilty.. People that send their horses off to training need to do some investigating before they write a check to these ass wipes. I hope to never see Judy again…. It all makes since why he would help out JUDY CATON..
I have an issue with animal rights activists…but we may be using a slightly different definition.
I personally use ‘animal rights’ to refer *only* to the lunatic fringe who use their leverage to prevent appropriate and humane use. Everyone else is working towards ‘animal welfare’.
You can work towards animal welfare and be a hunter or a vegetarian, a rider or not…all that matters is that you stand against unnecessary suffering.
‘Animal Rights’ to me equates to giving animals rights equal to and in some cases above humans. Unfortunately, the line becomes blurred.
For example, mandatory spay and neuter laws have nothing to do with animal welfare, but are often touted as such whilst being worded badly (Did you know it is illegal to breed cats…PERIOD…in the state of Rhode Island? Or that the California MSN law, which fortunately did not pass, criminalized the police department’s breeding program?)
If you support the lunatic fringe, you place us all in danger. If you support welfare, you weaken those people. I know Fugly is a vegetarian and I respect her for that. I’m not…however, I won’t buy foie gras or crate raised veal and prefer free range eggs…all little things that help.
I have been worried in the past by Fugly’s support of HSUS, an organization which very much straddles the line… (Unlike PETA, who’s shelters kill more animals than they rehome, apparently as a deliberate policy, and who are ALL about the looney tunes).
The problem is, though, when you get too confused, you can end up supporting the abusers.
Balance in all things.
Jennifer – You make a really good point. “Animal Rights” activists are NOT the same as “Animal Welfare” activists.
“Animal Rights” activists are the ones fire-bombing the *homes* of biomedical researchers (who are studying diseases and treatments that benefit both humans and non-human animals).
“Animal Welfare” activists are the ones monitoring research facilities and animal care practices to make sure that all the critters are being treated humanely and that pain is minimized.
In the horse-sphere, “Animal Rights” activists are the ones drugging horses in the middle of night at shows so they can’t compete the next day (can anyone tell me how *that* doesn’t violate the “rights” of the horse?).
“Animal Welfare” activists are the ones calling out inhumane training practices and getting those folks banned from competition.
It’s very important to be careful about the distinction.
Some big-name organizations do straddle the line. HSUS does a lot of good work rescuing abused and neglected animals from bad situations. Hell, I used to give them money…until I found out that they also shell out $$$BIG BUCK$$$ for the criminal defense of people who firebomb the houses of cancer researchers. Sorry, HSUS, I won’t support that policy even second-hand through my donations no matter how many neglected critters you remove from a hoarder’s property. There are *plenty* of great organizations who can do that and *not* spend my donation on get-out-of-jail-free cards for terrorists.
Yes! This! Very well said Jennifer! Those were my thoughts exactly, but you said them far better than I could have. I’m a supporter of animal welfare, NOT an animal rights activist. There is a difference.
And I’m rather leery of the HSUS myself. I can’t say that I entirely trust them.
PETA, as we all know, is straight-up BATSHIT.
I just sent off an e-mail quoting the bolded portion of his statement that you’ve posted. I’ve challenged him to provide me with examples of animal rights activists “twisting this in ways you can’t imagine” since it’s “already happening.” I’m hoping to get a response and will gladly post it.
This is just disgusting!
Oh, that’s awesome. Please post the response. I have to hear this “twisting” thing too. I haven’t heard a thing that hasn’t been confirmed by a half-dozen eyewitnesses who took horses off that place throughout the year.
The balls, just like those that he is lacking and the ones he wontonly removes from good or bad horses will never be inventoried. Equines are commodities, not living beings to him. If he screws up, they (the horses) loose. Any person ask this turd how much he has donated to horse rescue? (that would be certifiable horse rescue/welfare)
He is a macho coward… he lives off of beating up animals to prove his manhood. And trust me, this guy has the logic and language skills of a slug (without the same biological purpose).
p.s. last time I checked, his United Horse turd factory had not filed a 501(c)3 finacial report in Oregon…maybe he can expand or enlighten me.
Gee, I wish I was famous.
See, I have horses, and I’m a single mother. So… if I had someone give me 1,200 bales of hay, I could easily feed my four horses for a year, with some left over. Unfortunately, no one feels sorry for my horses, so no one drops off 1,200 bales of hay for them to eat.
Maybe I should start starving my horses!!! Then nice people will feel sorry for me, and give me hay! Oh wait….. that won’t work, because everyone around here knows I’ve owned horses for years, and they know darn well that I know how to take care of horses. I guess I’ll have to give this more thought….
… Okay, seriously though, if you figure 50 lb square bales, then that 30 tons is 1,200 bales of hay. Figure a horse needs between a half and one bale a day, and figure that probably a starved horse for sure needs a bale a day, since it’s on a weight gain program. So if she has 17 horses, that’s 70 bales per horse, so… those horses fortunately won’t starve for the next three months, right? Of course, that’s assuming she feeds them, and doesn’t decide to do like that nice lady over in England, and let her horses starve within FEET of giant bales of hay.
My god, who gave her 30 tons of hay? Is there any hope that whoever did that, also made an equal donation to a reputable horse rescue? Do you realize how many horses could be rehabbed if folks made donations like that where it counted?
I did the math also, and I figured the hay would last about 13-16 weeks for 17 horses. But then again, this hay should last a year or more if she continues to STARVE them!!
To add, I am not an animal “rights” activist…I am an animal welfare advocate (humans at the front of welfare to boot). I advocate the respect and humane treatment of all living beings. Dig a bit deeper and find where Duquette stands.
Absolutely freaking awesome. Notice there is no mention whatsoever as to WHERE those horses that were given away or sold went to. Anyone check the local auction yard lately?
Sorry, just going to have to add this:
Your definition of animal rights activist is definitely not that of a true ARA. True ARAs will not like or accept you riding horses (this would classify as “using” them, putting them into “slavery”, etc.). ARAs are firm believers in “Total Animal Liberation”, or the end of use (and existence) of domestic animals, including but not limited to pets, horses, cattle and the like. They don’t support any animal industry (including biomedical research, the meat industry or dairy industry) Most, if not all, are extremists, and most, if not all, WILL twist something like this. The best groups for twisting things are PeTA and HSUS, the latter being the worst about it, since they love to tout themselves as animal welfarists and then failing to spend even $500,000 of their well over $100 million annual budget on animals (not a single shelter owned, not a single animal taken in). There’s a lot more about ARAs, but it’s neither here nor there, and while it’d make a decent discussion, has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Now, shit like this is absolutely disgusting (you’d be surprised how many skinny horses I see with only 2 or 3 horses in the pasture), but it’s not something ARAs are going to do anything about. Instead, they’d use it as a poster child for why horses deserve more rights than humans and that we shouldn’t be allowed to own or use horses in any way. There’s a reason I support animal welfare rather than animal rights.
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm?oid=136
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm?oid=21
This is true. I do NOT support “animal rights.” Animals do not have “rights” in the sense humans do because they’re incapable of understanding those rights and in having the responsibilities that come with those rights. A tomcat who kills kittens is not committing infanticide because it’s not capable of understanding the concept.
What I do support is animal WELFARE. Humans have a responsibility to treat animals humanely, and we’re the ones who are supposed to know better.
Well, today about 65 miles from me USHS seized 80 horses and several other animals, many horses already dead, about 30 of them locked in a barn and starving to death! The footage on TV was awful, walking skeletons, and it showed babies in stalls with their dams starving, it made me want to puke! I am so sick of hearing about this happening over and over~~ here is the link with the story and pics:
http://www.wsmv.com/news/21711661/detail.html
I hope the SOB’s ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is what the news article says:
BRADYVILLE, Tenn. — The U.S. Humane Association, the Cannon County Sherriff’s Department and veterinarians were busy on Tuesday making one of the biggest horse cruelty seizures in middle Tennessee history.
The Cannon County Sheriff’s Office is obtaining a search-and-seizure warrant Tuesday to take up to 96 animals — 84 horses, one mule, three roosters, four hens, two goats and two dogs — from Charles E. Howland Jr.’s property.
The Humane Association, which has been working since Monday night, said the horses are in poor health and the farm is littered with 15 animal carcasses.
“What we’re seeing is a pure case of animal cruelty and neglect,” said Scotlund Haisley, Humane Society of the U.S. “I mean, we’re talking about horses that are literally starving to death as we speak.”
Twice as many animals than they expected were found.
The plan is to take the horses to the Tennessee State Fairgrounds where an emergency shelter for the animals has been set up with plentiful amounts of food and water. The animals will be divided based on gravity of illness.
Charles E. Howland Jr. and his son, Clint Howland, were arrested in case. The Howlands are horse traders who said they were fattening up the horses before slaughter. The men face at least 80 counts of misdemeanor animal neglect.
WTF!!!!!!!! They said they were fattening up the horses for slaughter~~but they were starving and dying, go figure!!
Charles and Clint Howland~~you guys SUCK, you sick Bastards, I hope you die a slow painful death!!!!!!!!
Note that this is the United States Humane ASSOCIATION… ***NOT*** the HSUS… (See Wesbarkennel’s and Jennifer R’s comments…)
False. It’s the Humane Society of the United States that pulled the horses out of that death trap. See for yourself. Sometimes the media screw up the titles.
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/multimedia/index.html?fr_story=8d29658c682d2891d675741d8c75ef363bfe9d7b
I’ve been watching them, and in the last year their rescue team has, in cooperation with local law enforcement and humane societies/spca’s, literally removed thousands of animals from situations that would make your skin crawl. I helped out on one of the puppy mill raids as a United Animal Nations/EARS volunteer and have nothing but praise for HSUS’s work in this area. Anyone who suggests that they don’t make a difference in the lives of animals hasn’t been paying attention, or is a lobbyist for the Center for Consumer Freedom LOL!
A little bit of good work doesn’t make up for the mass of horrible work they have done.
Did unborn-week old puppies deserve to be euthanized without so much as an evaluation (over 150 dogs killed without an evaluation in two separate cases)?
Did Vick’s dogs deserve to be euthed without an evaluation (note that they took in over 10k to “care” for the dogs-all while none were in their care and they were lobbying for their destruction)
Is Prop 2 really going to help animal welfare or is it just feel-good legislation written by people with no agricultural knowledge?
Don’t you think they could do a hell of a lot more with well over $50 million a year?
My question is-what’s so wrong with the CCF? Their info is valid for the most part (most of the time it’s with citations) and while the group itself is less than praise-worthy, they do speak the truth.
Ugh. I have been unable to keep up with the Fugly Blog lately and trying now to do some back reading. I remember the Caton story. That woman needs to never be able to own a horse again.
There is SO MUCH wrong with horse rescue today. Just thought I’d throw that out there…
Makes me glad there are safe places online, like here and my own blog.
My Blog ~ Laying The Foundation
Fugly you HAVE to see THIS.
http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/2008/07/spanish-horse-wrestling-festival.html
SPANISH HORSE WRESTLING!? WTF is wrong with some people?!?! This is just disgusting.
The responses to this blog just show how badly animal rights activism has been maligned thanks to the alarmists. Some of you are heaping EVERYBODY in the animal rights movement into the same boat with the people who do not think animals should be owned, horses ridden, etc. There is a middle ground of people who believe animals should indeed have legal rights but do not believe those rights should extend to having MORE rights than human beings (i.e. the right to freeload and not have a job, etc.!) The definition and range of the movement is much wider than some of you seem to believe.
I’m going to guess your idea of an ARA is from personal experience. Too bad the type of ARA you like to think most of them are are far and few between.
IF they support you using and riding a horse, they do not believe in animal rights, as animals having rights would include the right not to be used by humans (as it would equate to slavery)
IF they support the notion of pets they are not supporting animal rights, as again, pet ownership is akin to slavery in their eyes.
Might I direct you to the AR leaders, such as Peter Singer, Gary Francione, Ingrid Newkirk and Wayne Pacelle, who all firmly believe that animals are not ours to eat, own, wear, use as entertainment or use in any other way. THIS is the animal rights belief, not “it’s ok to use certain animals because you’re my friend”. These friends of yours sound more like those who mistake AW for AR.
Straight from the PeTA website:
” * Animals Are Not Ours to Eat
* Animals Are Not Ours to Wear
* Animals Are Not Ours to Experiment On
* Animals Are Not Ours to Use for Entertainment
* Animals Are Not Ours to Abuse in Any Way”
From “Politics of Animal Liberationâ€
by Kim Bartlett,
published in ANIMAL AGENDA, November 1987
1. Abolish by law all animal research
2. Outlaw the use of animals for cosmetic and product testing, classroom demonstration and in weapons development
3. Vegetarian meals should be made available at all public institutions, including schools
4. Eliminate all animal agriculture
5. No herbicides, pesticides or other agricultural chemicals. Outlaw predator control.
6. Transfer enforcement of animal welfare legislation away from the Department of Agriculture
7. Eliminate fur ranching and the use of furs.
8. Prohibit hunting, trapping and fishing.
9. End the international trade in wildlife goods
10. Stop any further breeding of companion animals, including purebred dogs and cats. Spaying and neutering should be subsidized by state and municipal governments. Abolish commerce in animals for the pet trade.
11. End the use of animals in entertainment and sports.
12. Prohibit the genetic manipulation of species.
NOTE: This was written in 1987, long before genetic engineering and cloning. In this context, “genetic manipulation†means selective breedingâ€
Quotes from the true ARAs
“The bottom line is that people don’t have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats … If people want toys they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship they should seek it with their own kind.”
-Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA, “Animals,” May/June 1993
“Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are ‘acceptable crimes’ when used for the animal cause.”
-Alex Pacheco, Director, PETA
“I don’t think you’d have to kill too many [researchers]. I think for five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2 million, 10 million non-human lives.”
Dr. Jerry Vlasak, director; board member, Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (EIN: 93-0792021); Animal Rights 2003 convention, Los Angeles, CA, 2004.
With people like these leading the animal rights movement (and the many who support them), and with the actions taken against those who do use animals, is it any wonder there are people who fear them, hate them and don’t believe the non-radical ARAs are true ARAs?
Again, you are choosing to view an entire community based on a few quotes. There are a lot of shades of grey in animal rights opinions, as there are in any group regarding controversial matter. Personally, I don’t think that animals should be eaten, worn, or used for experimentation unless the experimentation does not harm them or decrease their quality of life. I see nothing wrong with animals being used for entertainment unless it is in a manner which is harmful to the animals. I see nothing wrong with animals being pets as long as they are well cared for. I see it basically like parenting. A parent expects their kid to be a polite and respectful individual, go to school, get a job, and move on to be a successful person and good contribution to society. A horse trainer expects their horse to be polite and respectful, participate in training, develop a show career, and grow up to be successful and a good contribution to their discipline of riding. No less rights, no additional rights. Just equal. I think THIS is closer to the views of the majority of AR people. I think the ones who agree whole heartedly with your quotes are few and far between.
Unfortunately, that’s not the truth. I base my views on ARAs and animal rights in general on what I see on a first-hand basis. Most of the people that I see calling themselves animal rights activists don’t know jack about the true animal rights movement (which was noted in my previous quote, and has little to do with the people themselves) and are truly only supporters of animal welfare. Those who do know what animal rights really is are indeed the extremists (after all, isn’t it a bit extreme to be asking that animals be given more rights than humans?), and I see a fair few of them, though most people are well-informed enough about animal industries that they’d rather support welfare anyways (awful hard to believe Meet your Meat when you have a million examples in front of you that say otherwise).
While your views are admirable (though quite different from mine), they are not in any way for animal rights. THIS is the key difference-animal rights is not a grey area. It’s very plain. No animals being used for any reason, period. The grey area comes in with groups like HSUS, who love to pretend they’re AW, all while pushing AR (with BSL, MSN, and other similar anti-pet laws) as well as the proper method for achieving total animal liberation. This is the only area in which there is conflict. What AR is is quite clear to those who spend the time to read carefully into it.
http://homepages.sover.net/~lsudlow/ARvsAW.htm
Now, as for HSUS (rollkursucks, this isn’t aimed at you):
Don’t you find it odd that they would be so similarly named to your local humane society? Isn’t it also odd that HSUS can afford to shell out big bucks for advertising and legislation, but those same local humane societies end up underfunded every year? Isn’t it also odd that HSUS doesn’t run a single animal shelter anywhere in the US (or Canada, or Europe, where they have affiliated groups like HSC)?
How much does HSUS make? -The HSUS and its family of organizations now has more than 11 million members and constituents, annual revenues of $130 million, and assets of $200 million. (many higher-ups get well over $200,000 as an annual salary) (hsus.org)
Are they affiliated with any shelter in the US? -Despite the words “humane society†on its letterhead, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is not affiliated with your local animal shelter. (activistcash.com)
Note: Yeah, a lot of stuff I get about HSUS is from the CCF-question is, can you disprove ANY of what they say (it’s a matter of disprove the message, and not the messenger)? HSUS says they do so much to help animals. I see evidence that they don’t. I also see evidence that they are indeed animal rights, and if you haven’t figured it out by now, that’s an automatic turn-off for me.
No… the ARA’s have been maligned not by the “alarmists” but by the “extremists” within the movement. How is it being alarmist when there really ARE people who want to ban pet ownership? Who want to make it illegal to breed domesticated animals? Who think that a horse being ridden or driven is “slavery”?
For every ARA who takes the time to visit a dressage barn or a quality equine facility and see for themselves that the horses are well-treated, there is another (or more, it seems), who screams “ANIMAL CRUELTY” at me as a drive a fit, happy and healthy horse and who actively works to destroy my livelihood and my horse’s livelihood. These are the people who think that a horse with his hind leg cocked is evidence of being lamed from his “horrible” treatment. And who look at a napping carriage horse and say “Oh, he looks so sad!” AND PEOPLE ***DO*** LISTEN TO THEM. The extremists live in a fantasy land of anthropomorphism.
While Caton’s behavior is in no way excusable, there *really are* ARA extremists who will view it as yet another example of why no one should own horses in the first place. Because, in their view, if the horses were all running wild and free then they wouldn’t be starved by us evil, wicked humans. (Exactly where these horses would be running wild and free with rainbows and flowers, I don’t know…). The ARA extremists don’t seem to get that the bad behavior of animal abusers no more makes animal ownership (or stewardship if you prefer) evil than the bad behavior of a child abuser makes parenthood an evil that should be banned. The abusers should be punished and laws enacted to protect animals and stiffen penalties, but it in no way follows that keeping animals should be banned.
The ARA extremist nutjobs were around recently with signs that said “Prevent carriage accidents. Ban horse-drawn carriages!” Isn’t that like saying “Prevent car accidents. Ban cars!”? (Although carriages have a better safety record…) It’s the extremists whose position is essentially “Prevent animal cruelty. Ban animals!” that have caused alarm. And THEY are the ones who have maligned the entire animal rights movement and necessitated the distinction between “animal rights” and “animal welfare.” The welfarists are trying to distance themselves from the irrational extremists.
You are correct thedrafthorse, these fanatical individuals have been the bane in the side of horsemen & animal owners for 40 yrs that I know of. The sport of Rodeo, has been one of their targets, check out “The Friends of Rodeo” online. High School & Youth Rodeo is one of the healthiest youth activities on this continent teaching kids compassion & responsibility. About any exhibition of animals in sports or for display has been a target at one time or another. Our local AQHA show was the target a few years back. What these fanatics do is file some kind injunction with the local courts to stop the show or whatever exhibition. Fortunately the fanatics filed their papers here in this city through the court too late or incorrectly to stop the AQHA show. Now can you imagine all the work the members of the show committee had put into preparing for the show, the expense already invested in judges, arena, secretary, grooming of the grounds, leasing of stalls the list goes on, as to what these fanatics could have cost the volunteer committee & exhibitors already traveling miles to compete?
There are well documented cases of the ridiculous injunctions filed all over the USA to impede humans & animal sports/exhibitions. At one time the fanatics managed to get Rodeo banned from the state of Ohio. The fanatical groups do have the funds & attorneys to make it mighty miserable on horsemen if they get the idea to target any one group.
Personally I am not one that thinks to humanely euthanize an animal is as cruel as having an animal starve to death or be subjected to suffering with out any care. I also don’t believe our US Constitution gives Americans the right to tell others what they can or cannot eat. I do believe the laws we already have on the books should be followed; I think the perpetrator of the cruelty to the horses, subject of this blog, should have been prosecuted.
HMMM 30 tons of hay sounds like a lot in words but really 30 tons of alfalfa is not really very much. 1 ton in a New York/Canadian hay bale of regular timothy hay is pretty much only 40 bales of hay…..I used to laugh when my mom told me my sister just got 4 tons of hay …that is only 160 bales of hay ha ha ha I laughed to myself but didn’t want to let her know that I just bought 12.5 tons (500 bales) and one up her “favorite” when I was ready to fill my barn for the winter. And I had 5 horses and sometimes went through 4 bales of hay a day … I gave them more to keep them warm … So 30 tons for 17 horses won’t go very far especially wintertime. Also grain bins are full Umm how big are her grain bins? Don’t say all this and not know what you are talking about.
It’s 30 tons more than she should have received at all.
@DeannaJ – Someone just called me about this and told me to turn on the news. She’s rounding up a crew to haul some hay to the fairgrounds tomorrow. I’m going to call a couple feed stores and see what we can get donated to take along with the hay.
As an eternal cynic, I just wonder how long these poor horses have been there slowly declining to this point……..
Here’s a video connected to the story: http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=11568700
And look at the smug fucks smiling for their mug shots. And, as always, they sure look well fed, especially Jr. Smug Fuck.
Worthless…
Why are these misdemeanor counts?
Animal Neglect is a misdemeanor I believe in every state. Very few states have felony animal charges and they will usually only pertain to Aggravated Animal Abuse.
An animal rights activist has a much simpler definition in the horse world. There are 3 components:
1) You oppose horse slaughter
2) Every fact or statement you have against horse slaughter is emotional
3) You are a tree hugging vegan that wants to bring down all animal agriculture because you oppose horse slaughter
I got a reply!!
Here’s what I sent:
I’m quite certain you’ve had a lot of response to the statement I’ve copied which follows:
There is a lot of emotional rhetoric circulating the internet. Let me
restate that drawing media attention to this will only give the animal
rights groups more ammunition against the whole horse industry. They will
twist this in ways that most can’t imagine. This is already happening.
I would like to know what exactly you mean by this. I personally have 3 horses who were neglected/starved and on their way to the slaughter auction. They came from homes who COULD afford to feed them, but did not. I wish they had been persicuted on the media and not allowed to ever own horses again, but this is not the case.
Animal rights groups must have had a problem with you personally in the past. Do you own horses? Do you properly care for horses or do they look like the starved ones in question? Can you please provide an example or proof of how animal rights groups are “twisting this in ways most can’t imagine”? If it is already happening, as you’ve stated, I’m sure it won’t be difficult. I look forward to your response regarding that statement.
In the future, please consider the horses who cannot speak for their own suffering before trying to sweep something so disgusting under the proverbial rug. It’s an ugly circle of abuse – like spousal abuse – it doesn’t stop unless a change is FORCED!
Thank you for your time. I do look forward to a response.
Sincerely,
Amanda
Here’s the reply:
Amanda,
Actually you are the first to make a negative comment. If you want to know who I am you can look at my website at http://www.duquettequarterhorses.com
My record for helping the horse industry such as promoting shows, showing and helping the industry in Washington D.C. is extensive.
We are and always will be for the Horse. No other distinction can be made by doing some fact finding about what we do.
David Duquette
Executive Director
United Horsemen’s Front
I think this guy’s done some dancing before. He certainly didn’t address my question at all.
We can all sit here and yell and point fingers, but if I’m the only person who’s actually made a negative comment to this guy, (and I’m in CANADA), we’re no better than those we’re complaining about. The address is posted, let’s get to typing!
I am still pondering what this means:
“No other distinction can be made by doing some fact finding about what we do.”
Is it just me, or does this statement seem like an oxymoron, heavy on the moron?
Go to Washington Watch and scroll the antislaughter and DD ban for slaughterbound horses legislation comments.
He is Dave D. and used many other handles when V. Tobin and others rebutted his comments back up his butt. He is a horse owning, dangerous moron that never stays on topic and definitely could benefit from some anger management counseling. His place is in northeast Oregon…maybe he is a victim of repeated downwind radiation leaks from Hanford.
I feel bad for any animal in his possession.
….
http://www.duquettequarterhorses.com/duq_images/davefun.jpg
From the “News” link. That’s Dave Doucheba– I mean Duquette — being unable to “resist a chance to work a cow.” I especially like that his feet are in the stirrups, when they could very well touch the ground if he straightened them.
If you look at this man’s website – you can see from the first picture on his page as to what type of a person he is. His horse may be doing a sliding stop, but the look on the horses face says “ouch!” He is riding that horse with brute force and not with actual finesse.
I’ve been to the Reining world show before as a spectator, and those horses are doing sliding stops, rollbacks, etc one a looping rein. This man is teaching his horses and his students to use a strong hand that is totally unnecessary for the sport they are competing in.
This is what a sliding stop SHOULD look like…
At least I think it should look like that, but I don’t ride western, so I may just have a silly view on such things.
On another note;
can someone please gift me 30 tons of hay and fill my grain bins… my life would be SOOO much easier with free hay and grain, thanks!
ps. a free barn and turnout shed would be nice too!
-someone who actually pays atleast $350 a month for her ONE horse
p.s. No, it seems he can’t stay off his horses’ mouths. It also appears he teaches that to his clients…
Me again…
btw, Woody aka Fugly “jumper” colt and all his friends are still available. I’m willing to board him for half my regular board fee if someone will pick him up!
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-pets-livestock-for-sale-HORSES-FOR-SALE-MUST-SELL-VERY-REASONABLY-PRICED-MAKE-AN-OFFER-W0QQAdIdZ168986611
Okay, FHOTD, here is what I found (although you probably already know this)
http://www.duquettequarterhorses.com/news.html
He rides, trains, and shows reining horses.
http://www.unitedhorsemensfront.org/
The United Horsemens’ Front evidently isn’t just something he’s involved in, since his training address and his Notforprofit address are the same.
Punching in his name and Judy’s name on a Google search gives you the feeling they showed at a lot of the same shows together.
Dave Duquette and his “United Horsemens Front” is just another pro-slaughter group trying to disguise themselves as an equine welfare organization.
He and his supporters are good buddies with the likes of Trent Loos (Faces of Ag) and Sue Wallis with her “United Organizations of the Horse(meat). If you’re not familiar with Trent or Sue, just ‘Google’ for the enlightening propaganda put forth by these wonderful folks. In addition, they actively oppose (lobby against) H.R. 503 and S. 727.
They continue to use the ‘ANS’ (Abandoned, Neglected, Starving) horse argument as the reason to re-open US slaughterhouses, and are not ashamed to promote stories that are unsubstantiated, misleading or outright fabrications.
I would not be surprised to see the horses from the Snohomish County incident used to promote the idea on one of these websites that will say “You see, if only there were slaughterhouses here, we could avoid these cases of neglected, starving, abandoned horses (ad nauseum)…”
Good grief.
@Rainbeau,
Any chance someone could walk through and check if any of the horses are mine? I have had seven (two foals) on a property in TN (since June) and the person has ceased all communication. I worry they may no longer be on the property and have no way of knowing until my attorney does the paperwork. I live across the country, otherwise I would be there in a heartbeat. Photos, registration papers and microchip information on hand. Anyone who can help, PLEASE email me horsegirl9 @ cox (.) net
If I were you I’d be hopping the first plane over there.
Fugly, thanks for mentioning the pro-life thing. It’s nice to know that some people don’t think i’m an insane gun waving psychopath (and i don’t even own a gun)!
You think somebody would have noticed 56 friggn horses. why didn’t barn staff/help come out sooner?
(oops meant to post here)
RE: Animal Activist
I own two businesses in NYC and my field attracts many eccentric liberal types. I’ve worked with *many* committed vegan animal rights activist that I greatly respect. These are people who have been ethical vegans for years and out of all these people I worked with (and the vegan customers they brought in) I’ve never met one that had a problem with people owning dogs or riding horses. Yes there are people out there that are that extreme but you could swing a cat in a room filled with them and not hit one
Just like you could walk into the vatican and not see a pro-life activist thats going to bomb a clinic. There are crazy’s out there for sure but the average ARA you run into is fine with you riding your horse and walking your dog. They’re not all like the ones you read about on the news, the ones on the news are the exceptions, that’s why they’re on the news.
Sadly, it is only the extremists who make the news…. so they’re the ones whose message of intolerance, violence, and hatred of human beings that gets spread… Even people who in no way want to ban pet ownership or horse riding still absorb the “horses should be running wild and free” when they see a well-cared-for horse in the city. (Apparently, they think that horses “in the country” don’t live in stalls and paddocks or something…). My point is that the extremists are the ones who get the attention — and whose message gets heard and gradually absorbed into the public psyche…
The problem is if those “nice people” ever gave money to PETA or HSUS, who make a very pretty front of being those sort of sweet, vegan, pet-loving people. Unfortunately those extremists quoted above are the corporate leaders of those organizations. Those people are very good at putting on a great PR show. HSUS in particular is great at doing fundraising, by running softly lit emotional ads with a tender celebrity spokeswoman and anthropomorphic depictions of animal thoughts, and also showing up at high-profile law enforcement actions like the Vick case to ‘rescue’ animals, but taking no part in long term rehab, care, and rehoming. People who have a ‘sentimental’ view of animal rights (the ones who are vegans out of kindness or questionable nutrition science) often have no idea what they’re supporting when they say they’re supporting “animal rights”. The analogy is less to the pro-live movement than to the difference between supporting the Palestinians by supporting Hezbollah.
OK…Entry # 7 in MerriamWebsters’ online dictionary describes the word FRONT (perhaps as in United Horsemans Front) with – a person, group, or thing used to mask the identity or true character or activity of the actual controlling agent.
Yes…that describes it nicely doesn’t it?
And one question: How many of these starving horses is Mr Duquette taking on to his property and in to his care; putting his money where his mouth is?
My guess is…ZEERO
How nice, she has 30 tons of hay (paid for by United Manure Producers’ Front) for the 17 cherry-picked horses who are still there. At 20 lbs per day per horse, that will last approximately 6 months (almost.) And what happens after that?
Like Flashygrl, I’d be curious to know the location of the other 37 horses. I’d be willing to bet 2 or 3 were given to good-intentioned fans in exchange for rabid defense, and the other 35 are presently on a double-decker.
I have mixed feelings about the subject.
Today I helped my church distribute turkeys to the needy.
It’s hard for me to reward bad decisions, (it just goes against everything I’ve been taught about training horses!)
In the horsey community around here, there are just some people who live in a fantasy world, where financial hardship could never reach them.
On the other extreme, there are people who have never been in this situation before and just don’t know how to ask for help.
I met enough homeless people today to know there isn’t much more than one bad day and a couple of bills, to divide us.
I think everyone needs to learn how to be humble once in awhile. Ask for help when you need it and help others when you can. Pride is just as big a sin as gluttony.
I guess I’m just thankful that today, with are interconnected society, there’s no need for any animal or person to go hungry, and one day horses won’t be left to starve in some forgotten corner, and hopefully we’ll realize we’re all neighbors, watching out for each other …
Sad stuff, here in TN we have had a recent case in Cannon County. 95 malnourished animals were found 84 of which were horses of varying ages including 2 week old foals. Sad stuff. My store is helping with hay, shavings, halters and buckets but there is only so much I can do. I’m already out of some of the things they will be needing. Many of the horses are probably going to have to be euthanised, including soem of the foals
I hope the father-son duo that did this get slapped with HUGE fines and then rot in jail/hell. They claimed to be fatting the horses up not to re-home but to send to slaughter! Some of these poor guys look like with weight, de-worming and l0ove they would be excellent show and trail ponies. There is one that has to be an AQHA reg horse that even skinny is breath takingly beautiful. I’m heading out there today and will probably spend most of tommorrow helping with these guys.
WSMV.com has the full story
lol you can actually see one of my workers unloading hay off a trailer! He thinks he famous now cause he was on TV! lol Look for the blue “Co-op knows beef” t-shirt. Thats the warehouse manager
Say it’s so! Is fhotd really a vegetarian? I hope so. It will help me when people stare in wonder at me as soon as they find out I am a vegetarian. The Wintec saddle thing is awesome too! I have gotten ribbed for riding in a Wintec. Not only is it an english saddle and most of my friends ride western it is synthetic and show people can be so rough if you don’t have the right saddle. I really don’t care about what everyone else considers right for them. My Wintec is comfy and fits my horse. My Big Horn western saddle is the same.
On animal welfare, lots of my friends think I’m a bit overboard but I don’t worry about it. I love my horses and dogs and take care of them to the best of my ability. Every day I learn something new about animals and strive even harder to care for mine appropriately. The horses are a 6 according to our vet and he’s fine with that. He would rather see our 15 and 18 year old horses a bit heavy than underweight especially at this time of year.
Keep up the good work fhotd and everyone who reads this blog. Animal abusers should be brought into the light not hidden from view. Everyone learns in the end when abuse of people or animals is discussed!
Yeah, I’m a vegetarian. I finally decided I was a hypocrite if I ate what I could NEVER kill or stand to see alive. And guess what? Turns out you don’t need meat at ALL…I feel GREAT not eating any and get plenty of protein from egg whites, beans, tofu and Jamba Juice
We had the same situation in FL about two months ago. 14 starving horses at a trainer’s home. Animal Rescue group comes to seize the horses and arrest the trainer. Some time during the night 11 of the horses were spirited away to another county and an animal rescue group in another state was called in to pick them up. The trainer was trying to avoid prosecution, but he was arrested and charged for the horses remaining on the property. The person who aided him in avoiding prosecution feels she did nothing wrong as the horses were taken away. This is the second or third time she has aided this trainer in pulling this stuff. Still, she sees nothing wrong with it. This last time one horse had to be put down and one is still in danger. He had stallions tied on dog wire runs. It was a real disaster.
I have been a vegetarian for 30 years, and a horse owner for 21 years. I too use Wintec tack. I’m a damn dirty hippie and a member of the scary liberal media, but I’m not out to abolish pet ownership. In my experience, most domestic animals prefer safe human homes to the big bad wild. Yes, there are some pets who escape and run for the hills, but they’re the minority.
I had a pony who was feral for many years. He lived by himself on a 300+ acre spread with year-round forage and water. He regularly turned up at a local ranch, and his owners would be forced to pick him up and bring him home. Eventually the owners stopped picking him up, and I bought him for the cost of the unpaid board fees. It’s natural that he would want to be a member of a herd, but he really wanted to be around people. Despite the years of neglect, he was constantly seeking human company. He followed me around like a puppy. I’m sorry humans mistreated him and I’d stop that kind of behavior if I could, but horses have been domesticated to the point that they’re better off being owned and cared for by humans. Same goes for dogs and cats.
People who starve and abuse their animals should be whipped and driven out of town naked, but I’m not about to take animals away from loving homes. Take your fear-mongering elsewhere, United Horse Abusers’ Front.
While I know life isn’t all sunshine, kittens, and rainbows….Can’t we have some inspirtaional or endearing posts? After all it is the holidays. Tis the season.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
84 horses taken from a farm in CAnnon County , Tennesse. all horses were removed and being taken care of at the Tennesse State fairgrounds. Volunteers are camping out and taking care of the horses. Qhs and Spotted gaited horses??
yes it’s a mengerie of breeds out there but primarily QH, Paints and spotted saddles. Some of them very beautiful even in their current poor and muddy condition. Definately some potential show stopper sin there. And yes volunteers are streaming in and camping about to help out
“…horses have been domesticated to the point that they’re better off being owned and cared for by humans. Same goes for dogs and cats.”
And cows, chickens, and sheep. Goats, I dunno – nobody’s been able to breed the brains out of them yet!
My hat is off to vegetarians and vegans who are so for moral reasons, and really walk the walk. I’ve met a few. However, I reserve the Glare of Imminent Doom ™ for the ones who want to force me to be one too. I’m an omnivore, just as my biology dictates.
So many humaniacs, as I call them, seem to think of death itself as something horrible. I don’t. A dead animal feels nothing. It’s what may come before death that bothers me. Being anti-fur doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, either; anyone that’s worked in dog rescue knows that gleaming fur goes along with a happy animal, not one being abused. Nobody who has ever skinned an animal (yes, I have) thinks doing it while the animal is alive is a good idea. At the very least, a dead animal doesn’t struggle.
I have no problem with horse slaughter; it is the cruelty that goes along with it that I hate. I have a scheme for making slaughter humane. Bring the butcher to the horse; the horse is killed “at home,” and the butcher takes it from there. No long rides in double-deckers and no awful kill chute. This could benefit zoos, and carnivore rescues (like big cat sanctuaries).
Hunting, too, is a victim of bad publicity. Only the worst stories make the news. The ARAs also falsify things. For instance, in their campaign to ban bear hunting here, one emotional ploy they used was that sows with cubs were being killed. In the previous 10 years, the DOW reported two, count ‘em two, sows with cubs being killed by hunters. They won everything they went for; no hunting with hounds, no hunting with bait, and no spring season.
Now, 15 years later, bear population is way up, and they are no longer frightened of dogs, and have invaded suburbs, and had pets for lunch. And the best few bear houndsmen now get paid by the DOW to track down those bears… ironic, eh?
Yes, I will keep calling them ARAs. I will keep drawing a line between rights and welfare. Animals do not have rights, because rights come with responsibilities – a concept animals don’t understand. For instance, we have the right to get drunk, and the responsibility to assure that we hurt no one while drunk. Think you can explain that to a goat?
Animal welfare means humans, living up to our responsibilities. Responsibilities which arise from our right to own animals.
Ruthie
I don’t understand why you cannot take your old grey mare down to the local butcher/slaughter house and have her put down with a capitive bolt and rendered. Maybe things are different in Ontario. There are alot of very small scale slaughter houses where they will humanely slaughter your livestock. We have a hobby farm and raise 3 or 4 litters of hogs each year. We train the piggys to load on the trailer and when the time comes we take them down the road and assist in the slaughter. Our pigs go relatively peacefully since they are use to human contact and once they are stunned they are slaughter in the normal way. The meat is succulent since few stress hormones taint it and we sell it at a premium. When the time comes for my warmblood, he will go in a similar manner and the meat donated to the local wildlife park. Who says horses have to go to the giant, mass production, factory slaughter houses via transport truck. Surely there is another way to slaughter in a humane fashion, locally!
Just wanted to quickly update the Nashville seizure case. Please “don’t” call the fairgrounds – those poor ladies don’t know anything, are not in charge, and are directing toward another equally busy lady with HSUS. (I got her voicemail several times and it’s constantly full…) From what myself and a friend have been able to find out, they have enough hay/feed to last until early next week, and are taking names/numbers of those willing to donate. Our local TSC is setting aside any bags of feed/bedding that get broken/damaged across the weekend for them…..and apparently they are hoping to have a system for foster/adoption in place sometime next week. Some wondeful volunteers are out picking up donated supplies from area farms.
Off the record (on the record, LOL)….the son half really was planning to haul horses across the border – just didn’t feel the need to feed them between picking up the cheapest horses at the local sales and their long final journey. Yet another reason to never, EVER sell a horse you value AT ALL at auction, especially not at $200 or less….these horses were thrown away twice – first by the owners who sold them at sales, and then by these two worthless pieces of trash.
I never said the HSUS does not do good for animals.
I said they straddle the line. They do a lot of good work, but they also have a tendency to drift into the arms of the extremists, sufficiently that I would prefer to donate my money to a local shelter than to them.
Fugly, I have never considered you animal rights. Your attitude is perfectly sane.
In fact, a horse or dog that works for a living often seems to be happier and healthier than one which does not. Some of the fittest, clearly happiest dogs with the shiniest coats I have ever seen are service dogs. (And hey, they get to go everywhere with their pack alpha…in dog terms that’s a pretty sweet deal).
I don’t anthropomorphize, but I do accept that animals have personalities (how could anyone ride and NOT get that) and feelings. They are not the same as us. Horses have different instincts, their minds work differently, they don’t even see the world the same way we do, based off of studies of the way equine vision works…the reason a horse can walk past an object on one rein fine and then spook when they go the other way is that they literally see differently in each eye.
I will grant an animal equal rights with a human if it is demonstrated to my satisfaction that that animal, individual or species, is capable of taking on the same responsibilities. There are certain species of animal I would definitely not consume, deliberately kill, and would go out of my way not to harm. Specifically: Smaller cetaceans demonstrate language ability not far behind ours and distinct cultural variance. Great apes are capable of language, albeit not to nearly the same level as us. Behavioral experiments with elephants have indicated that they probably have a highly developed sense of self. Specifically, a female Indian elephant showed the ability to recognize that the reflection of her in a mirror was a reflection, not another elephant mimicking her (Cats do not have this capacity). Birds in the crow family show behavior patterns that may be indicative of abstract thought. I consider these specific animals to be closer to human sentience than the majority of species and treat them with higher respect.
Horses, sorry, are simply not there. They are not non-sentient…that’s stupid…they are *less* sentient than we are. They definitely feel pain, they have good days and bad days. However, it’s clear to me that when I am ‘anxious’ it is a different thing from when I turn to my riding buddy and say ‘Clay is anxious today’. I mean that Clay is demonstrating a pattern of behavior…physical tension, head tossing, ear pinning…that indicate that *something is bothering him*. It pays to work out what, but I don’t have to say that Clay is feeling the same thing I am when I’m dreading dealing with the in-laws.
Which brings me to another thing. The modern, domestic horse has been bred for generations and (unless bred by some stupid BYB) carefully raised not just to tolerate being ridden, but to embrace it. We all, of course, know the horse that, either through personality or poor training does just ‘tolerate’ his rider. But I bet there’s not a person here who hasn’t met at least one horse in their life who pricks his ears up and holds his head out when approached with a bridle, or gives the ‘aww. mom’ look when the person goes to the horse in the next stall instead. Would I say they ‘enjoy’ being ridden? That’s an anthropomorphism again, I suppose. But these horses, the ones that stick their head into the bridle and perk their ears when led out of their stall, in my experience, not only do well at their discipline, whatever it may be, but stay sounder longer. I mean, one of the horses I know that does this is easily thirty, had a career as a barrel racer and is now a schoolie…ridden by the most ham-handed beginners most of the time. And he STILL puts his nose in the noseband with his mouth open…quite the horse.
Maybe part of the problem with the show world, these days, is that people think you can compete at the highest levels with just any horse…not one that *wants* to do it.
Kinda late, but just wanted to add a little tid-bit about good ole Dave Duquette. He is a pro-slaughter extremist. Here is a link to Washington Watch – he is Dave D.
http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_6598.html#commentform
Below is a comment he left on a pro-slaughter facebook group wall.
“Dave Duquette The animal rights movement has hit some extremely hard frontier justice, please go to http://www.unitedhorsemensfront.com to see the truth and the deception by animal rights activists. All horse people need to come together and bring processing back to the U.S.
The predictions by the people who started this page in ’06 hav…e all come true in much worse fashion than we thought it would. Now as a community of horse owners we need to rectify what we allowed the animal rights groups to do to our livelyhoods and the horses, the short sided thoughts they had have put us in this situation with no plan to or forethought on how to deal with this crisis.”