Don’t believe everything you read – or hear!
Nov 09 2009
Guest blog from Monique in North Carolina:
My family owned a tack and feed store in a small rural community for about 2 years. So, we would see all sorts coming and going. A friend of ours got to talking to a customer who came in one day. The customer appeared to be in her mid-twenties and claimed to have shown AQHA Hunters, and also claimed she had shown several Grand Prix jumpers until a fall off of a stallion left her unable to jump comfortably. She told our friend and our family that she was looking to take on a small group of boarders to take to shows to advertise herself as a trainer and instructor. After talking with her, it was decided that I and two other friends would be boarding our horses at her barn for $125 a month which included her feeding them, and giving them hay twice a day, in exchange for us riding under her name at shows. “Her” small barn was almost completed, looked safe, and was just lacking a heated tack room. “Her” paddocks had safe fencing and were still quite green for it being mid-winter. There was no arena, she claimed that the contractor she had building it was finishing up a project and would then be coming to “her” farm to put up a nice heated indoor arena. Everything sounded good, we, being the backyard riders who were just waiting for a chance to prove we had what it would take to show at these large shows she claimed to go to, jumped on the chance and said, we can wait a month or two for a full sized arena and a tack room, no big deal. It will be worth it later on.
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At the time I owned a small QH cross pony who knew how to w/t/c and jump 2’9 with good form. I could ride bareback in a halter and never really worried about getting hurt. He was level-headed, a tad pushy at times, but never anything rank or dangerous. Always the first to the gate to say hello. When we trailered him over to her barn, she doted on him, talking about how much she liked him, and how he was the type of horse she looked for to retrain for investment projects. Of my friends, one had a tb/trakhener who was a trained show jumper, and the other has an appy/tb pony.
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I rode him the next day and he was great. Did everything I asked. The 3rd day, he was a rank SOB. Bucked, reared, kicked, charged me in the pasture, and it only got worse. I checked his back, his saddle fit, his teeth and could find no pain reason as to why he would be acting like this. After two weeks of watching this horse completely deteriorate, the “trainer” suggested I sell him to her, she would train him, sell him, and I would recieve part commision off the sale. I agreed, but only under the condition I wouldnt sell him until after I found another horse. In the mean time I rode a retired Arab Show gelding, whom the trainer claimed to half own. About a week after I agreed to sell him, I went to the pasture to get the arab, and my gelding walked up to me, put his head down and let me scratch his ears just like he used to. On a whim I pulled him out, tacked up and hopped on. He was perfect. w/t/c and we even popped over a few cross country jumps we had set up. I told the trainer, nevermind, maybe it had just been a fluke, maybe the new grass had given him problems. the next day, I got him out to ride. He was anxious, prancing, couldnt stand still. I decided to hop on anyways. He reared up next to a ditch, slid down half way, came out crow-hopping. I fell, and he turned and came after me, teeth literally bared and head down. Luckily my father was there at the time and grabbed him and jerked him away, but he ended up dragging my father completely down the road. I confronted the trainer about it, at the time not accusing her just asking what may have happened to make him flip around the way he had. She suggested he was too much horse for me, that he was unpredictable, and to let her have him and she would find me a new horse. I agreed, and continued to ride the arab while she “searched” for a new horse for me.
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After that, we would arrive at the farm to find a 100gl tank that we had provided completely bone dry. When we confronted the trainer about this, she claimed the horses must have flipped it over, and getting snarky told us, I wouldnt have made it through college if i couldnt water a horse. Whenever it snowed, the pipes would freeze becuase she didnt have them insulated, so we would arrive, find their water bone dry, and have to haul water from out of the river down the road by hand. We confronted her again, and she claimed the tank must have a leak, that she had filled it that morning. We checked, and no cracks, holes, or anything. I went to her and told her that if she didnt have time to water the horses, that she should tell us and we would come water them, but that leaving it empty was unacceptable.
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That night, she called me and told me that I and my friend who owned the app/tb had until the next evening to get our horses off of her property. We found a place and hauled them off early the next morning. She showed up and claimed that I had no right to take MY horse, because he belonged to her. We told her off, and drove off with both horses.
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Our friend, who had been informed that we had moved (and not been kicked out) stayed with this lady.
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We found out after some serious research that she had never shown in anything AQHA. She had never shown in any grand prix events, but had been a groom for someone who had, and she was fired after being caught riding the horse without permission. She also didnt go to an actualy equine college, but got an online degree to be a vet’s assistant. She didnt own the property the horses were on, nor did she own the barn. She had asked the owners if she could use it for her horse (which was nonexistant) and when the owners saw how many horses she had out in their field and barn, they started to question her. The arab she claimed she half-owned? I met the real owner. He’s a retired show horse a friend gave her, and she’s a begginer rider who was looking for someone to keep the horse excercised. She never agreed for the horse to be ridden by anyone but the trainer or herself. She had since moved him, found a different barn and put the arab in a begginer lesson program.
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The girl who owned the tb/trakhener couldnt get own to the barn for a month due to snow, and when she went out, she found her horse over 400lbs underweight and severely deyhydrated. They moved her without saying a word to the trainer. The trainer never even called to tell them the horse was missing.
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As for my horse, a week after I moved him I hopped back on him, bareback in his halter and he was the perfect little gentleman hes always been. I assume she was drugging him with something, as there is really no other explanation as to why he behaved the way he did, but I never did have the bloodwork done to see if this was the case, which I now see as a mistake on my part. I also think she was handling him roughly when i wasnt around, though I cant prove anything. I was though, 13 at the time, dealing with my first horse, and learning along the way. I had been riding for quite some time at that point, and was fairly advanced for my age, but dealing with an adult who lied was beyond me at that time, and my parents were quite non-horsey, so they didnt know to complain.
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At the time I owned a small QH cross pony who knew how to w/t/c and jump 2’9 with good form. I could ride bareback in a halter and never really worried about getting hurt. He was level-headed, a tad pushy at times, but never anything rank or dangerous. Always the first to the gate to say hello. When we trailered him over to her barn, she doted on him, talking about how much she liked him, and how he was the type of horse she looked for to retrain for investment projects. Of my friends, one had a tb/trakhener who was a trained show jumper, and the other has an appy/tb pony.
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I rode him the next day and he was great. Did everything I asked. The 3rd day, he was a rank SOB. Bucked, reared, kicked, charged me in the pasture, and it only got worse. I checked his back, his saddle fit, his teeth and could find no pain reason as to why he would be acting like this. After two weeks of watching this horse completely deteriorate, the “trainer” suggested I sell him to her, she would train him, sell him, and I would recieve part commision off the sale. I agreed, but only under the condition I wouldnt sell him until after I found another horse. In the mean time I rode a retired Arab Show gelding, whom the trainer claimed to half own. About a week after I agreed to sell him, I went to the pasture to get the arab, and my gelding walked up to me, put his head down and let me scratch his ears just like he used to. On a whim I pulled him out, tacked up and hopped on. He was perfect. w/t/c and we even popped over a few cross country jumps we had set up. I told the trainer, nevermind, maybe it had just been a fluke, maybe the new grass had given him problems. the next day, I got him out to ride. He was anxious, prancing, couldnt stand still. I decided to hop on anyways. He reared up next to a ditch, slid down half way, came out crow-hopping. I fell, and he turned and came after me, teeth literally bared and head down. Luckily my father was there at the time and grabbed him and jerked him away, but he ended up dragging my father completely down the road. I confronted the trainer about it, at the time not accusing her just asking what may have happened to make him flip around the way he had. She suggested he was too much horse for me, that he was unpredictable, and to let her have him and she would find me a new horse. I agreed, and continued to ride the arab while she “searched” for a new horse for me.
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After that, we would arrive at the farm to find a 100gl tank that we had provided completely bone dry. When we confronted the trainer about this, she claimed the horses must have flipped it over, and getting snarky told us, I wouldnt have made it through college if i couldnt water a horse. Whenever it snowed, the pipes would freeze becuase she didnt have them insulated, so we would arrive, find their water bone dry, and have to haul water from out of the river down the road by hand. We confronted her again, and she claimed the tank must have a leak, that she had filled it that morning. We checked, and no cracks, holes, or anything. I went to her and told her that if she didnt have time to water the horses, that she should tell us and we would come water them, but that leaving it empty was unacceptable.
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That night, she called me and told me that I and my friend who owned the app/tb had until the next evening to get our horses off of her property. We found a place and hauled them off early the next morning. She showed up and claimed that I had no right to take MY horse, because he belonged to her. We told her off, and drove off with both horses.
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Our friend, who had been informed that we had moved (and not been kicked out) stayed with this lady.
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We found out after some serious research that she had never shown in anything AQHA. She had never shown in any grand prix events, but had been a groom for someone who had, and she was fired after being caught riding the horse without permission. She also didnt go to an actualy equine college, but got an online degree to be a vet’s assistant. She didnt own the property the horses were on, nor did she own the barn. She had asked the owners if she could use it for her horse (which was nonexistant) and when the owners saw how many horses she had out in their field and barn, they started to question her. The arab she claimed she half-owned? I met the real owner. He’s a retired show horse a friend gave her, and she’s a begginer rider who was looking for someone to keep the horse excercised. She never agreed for the horse to be ridden by anyone but the trainer or herself. She had since moved him, found a different barn and put the arab in a begginer lesson program.
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The girl who owned the tb/trakhener couldnt get own to the barn for a month due to snow, and when she went out, she found her horse over 400lbs underweight and severely deyhydrated. They moved her without saying a word to the trainer. The trainer never even called to tell them the horse was missing.
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As for my horse, a week after I moved him I hopped back on him, bareback in his halter and he was the perfect little gentleman hes always been. I assume she was drugging him with something, as there is really no other explanation as to why he behaved the way he did, but I never did have the bloodwork done to see if this was the case, which I now see as a mistake on my part. I also think she was handling him roughly when i wasnt around, though I cant prove anything. I was though, 13 at the time, dealing with my first horse, and learning along the way. I had been riding for quite some time at that point, and was fairly advanced for my age, but dealing with an adult who lied was beyond me at that time, and my parents were quite non-horsey, so they didnt know to complain.
The QH pony was sold to another little girl when i aged and outgrew him.
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When looking into a new trainer, or barn, do your research! Any name they mention when you talk to them, find that person, email or call them and get any information you can on that person. If they have claimed to show, ask them on what circuit and look up their records. Most big time shows will keep records from past years. People are not always who they say they are, and even when they give you the prettiest picture of how everything will be, look into it! If you see something that bothers you, dont be afraid to speak up and say so. It’s your horse, your decisions, and if they do not respect that then you should take your business else where.Â
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FHOTD in:
This is a perfect example and please note that Monique was a child when this happened so it was definitely not her fault for trusting the trainer as long as she did. Don’t believe everything you read or hear. Trust me, the editors of the horse magazines aren’t checking the ads for honesty! Anyone can say anything about their accomplishments, education, etc. Bad trainers and barn managers migrate like geese – they scam the residents of one town, then move a few states over and repeat the process.  They may use aliases. If they are claiming a show record with any of the major organizations, you can easily verify that online or with a phone call. Find out! If they claim they trained X horse, but you can’t verify that by seeing old ads, etc. online, don’t hesitate to call the owner. I know people who caught someone claiming to have trained a successful horse and it turned out she was only his groom.Â
Any kind of RADICAL change in your horse is a warning sign. If it cannot be explained by the vet because of pain, move the horse. Maybe it’s the trainer, maybe it’s how the barn help are handling him, maybe it’s the feed, who knows. But any time a nice, kind horse does a 180, something is wrong and you’d better fix it before too much damage is done.Â
Doing your research pays off. I’m happy to say that I couldn’t be more delighted with my trainer or the care my horse is receiving, but it was a six month hunt to find the right person. If anyone is hesitant to answer questions about the past barns they’ve been at and their past clients or provide references – huge red flag. Take your time and find the right place for your horse!
58 comments to “Don’t believe everything you read – or hear!”
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Another attempt to get a pic to show up… this is my personal braided biothane halter/bridle/sidepull I’ve had for about 3 years now.
For anyone who missed it I was promoting my business which includes custom biothane and braided tack, and any proceeds from sales resulting from the fugly blog will be split with one of Fugly’s fave recues.
http://www.freedomtreeless.com
i never cease to be amazed at the breadth and width of the lies that someone will tell to make a buck. this story was horrible enough as was, but to then find out the teller was only 13! could there have ever been a thought in the “trainer’s” brain about harming a child? this makes me ill. i am so happy she and her horse escaped relatively unharmed.
I met this person who was manager of a boarding stable and they have events there. Talking to her, she did all this showing, was a judge, trainer, gave riding lessons, and was 4 th level dressage trainer. I have learned in my old age that when you are a jack of all trades, you are certainly a master of none. I had a business dealing with her, and since she was supposed to be this sought after judge, certainly she would be listed on show premiums and I could find out info to substantiate the claims. Holy Cow, what I found was not at all what I expected. But giving the benefit of the doubt I did not say anthing but kept it in mind with my dealings with her. Fortunately my last dealing with her I was bringing home my miniature mule. She owned the mother, and when they brought them to my place the mother looked horrendous, skin and bones. The plethora of excuses ensued as to why she was so thin. However, I was able to get her back to normal with very little effort, but I was heartsick to send her back, but I had no choice since she was not mine. I did offer to buy her many times, but was turned down each time.
This person talks a good game, is forceful in her mannerisms and is the type that what she says is gospel truth and she knows it all. Not so much, as I have learned the more I learn the less I know.
Great guest blog.
I knew a “trainer” much like the one Monique describes… she would take in really nice horses for training, keep them for months or years without doing much, and then hold up the horse’s lack of progress (or worsening of whatever problems it started with) as a reason that the horse wasn’t suitable for the owner, and they should give it to the trainer. (She was also the type of person who constantly had men — married or not — fawning over her and giving her presents. So the idea that someone would just give her their horse or their car or the clothes off their backs wasn’t really far-fetched. Just thinking about it makes me queasy.) She’d then flip the horse and try to sell it as a “finished” riding horse to some unsuspecting fool. Most of the people I knew who had bought horses from her basically ended up with horses they couldn’t handle and were afraid of, and were completely unsuitable for them. She was a compulsive liar but people would just believe whatever she said… she had this sort of cadre of followers who would follow her around and run her errands and do whatever she wanted, and it really was creepily like her own little cult. She worked for a rescue and would also snake horses from them sometimes… if somebody came in and said “I need to get rid of this POS stud horse that’s half-dead” it was Sure, bring it on over! But one day when somebody walked in wanting to donate a trained TWH riding horse along with his tack, it was suddenly, Oh, we don’t have any more room here, but you can bring him to my house!
She also had absolutely no qualifications to train horses, and wasn’t very good at it, but she’d tell people, “I can train your horse,” and they’d just go, “Okay! When can I bring him over and start giving you all my money?” It’s just insane. She’s a hoarder and has no proper horse facilities at all, and I can’t imagine a sane person going over to see their horse in that environment and thinking that 20+ horses (including studs breeding fillies through the fence) on less than half an acre is in any way an appropriate environment. Gives me the willies just thinking about it.
I think for a lot of beginners there is just so much to know about horses and so much of it seems mysterious to them, that it’s easy for people to pull this kind of “I am an expert, I know of what I speak,” vibe that just sucks people in. I was a SUPER shy kid and completely unable to stand up for myself, but the only time I remember really standing up and saying no as a kid was when a riding instructor told me to whack a horse in a way that I felt was really excessive and pointless. Standing my ground on that is something I’m proud of to this day, and it was clearly something that the instructor was NOT accustomed to dealing with. Horsemanship is such a cult of personality in a lot of ways, especially with the “big name trainers” and whatnot, that nobody’s willing to question even when they should.
For myself, I’ve worked so long and hard on turning my horse from a wild animal into a trusting and quiet partner that I’ve taken about five years to finally decide to send her out for training to start her under saddle. It wasn’t that she wasn’t ready or couldn’t handle it… it was that it took me that long (and five moves to new towns
) before I met someone who has the credentials and qualities that I want in a person who’s going to handle my horse. She has a verifiable show history and a good reputation in the community, I know her horses and have watched her and her daughters ride ones they’ve trained (which are super nice and super quiet, really willing and happy horses), and she’s MUCH more likely to rebuke a rider than a horse… I’ve been taking riding lessons with her (and am looking forward to taking them on my own horse in the spring!) and have yet to hear her even say an uncharitable word about any horse, much less raise a hand to one.
Same advice goes for farriers. I had a farrier that was beating my horse when trimming him. I recognized that something was up when he became VERY touchy about his back hooves being picked. I asked around and the barn manager, also a farrier, finally told me. He was reluctant to tell me since he is also a farrier and didn’t want to look like he was bashing the competition, which I understand, but if someone is beating my horse, I certainly want to know about it!!
I actually JUST had this happen to me! I’ve been boarding at a very nice, reputable place in Ohio (I live right next door in West Virginia) for the past two months. I entrusted my horse’s well being to the renters of the place (the real owners of the stables are renting it out) during a scary family health issue that I ended up driving a couple states over for two weeks. When I came back, I dropped by his stall I found both of his water buckets bone dry, him lethargic and a little skinnier than how I had left him. After checking the other horses, I found them in similar condition. I watered all the horses, and when I went to the feed room to grab everyone some hay, what I found stopped me dead in my tracks. The hay “stack” – which was maybe 3 bales of hay – were COVERED in cat and dog feces, broken glass, and ripped up dog-bed plastic insides. The loose hay that had fallen from previous bales of hay were no different.
They had at least 10 dogs on the property – each one skin and bones. They had one loose dog named Buster (who was as sweet as could be), and at least 9 others either in horse stalls or in small cages. Each dog was either large (such as a great pyrenees), or at least medium-large such as a border collie and australian shepherd or german shepherd. The shepherd and great pyrenees were in a horse stall together with no easy access to water – and by no easy access to water they had horse water buckets in the stall – just too high for them to reach. All the others were in cages in stalls. Each dog was covered in their own feces, and trying to lick the bottom of their cage so they could get some form of nutrients from their own feces! Also, the dogs in the cages were in too-small cages, such as a cage you would put a prembroke corgi instead of a medium-large dog.
Don’t get me started on the horses! NONE of the horses stalls had been mucked, and the food was horrible. Each horse had chewed up the wooden rafters above their stall in attempt to get some food.
Long story short, I went out that night and bought about 10 bales of hay, brought out my video recorder, camera and documented everything, fed the all the horses, and then the next morning moved mine and then called the ASPCA and gave them everything I had on them.
What gets me, is that I DID check on the renters – they did win the shows they claimed to have won, did train with the trainers they claimed to have trained. After I moved my horse, I did a much more through background check and after half a day of searching I found out the reason they had moved from Connecticut is because they had 11 horses DROP DEAD in ONE DAY!!! Supposedly from their hearts bursting because of a “bad batch of food”. Never heard of that before.. Colic, yes. Hearts exploding and bleeding out, no.
The ASPCA is supposed to be going out today with NO notice to take a look at what’s going over there. I know they are going to get at LEAST a HUGE fine and their dogs taken away. I hope they take the horses too. But I’ve done all I can do right now and the rest is up to the ASPCA.
Just goes to show you that even the good ones can go sour.
FHOTD in:
If they are claiming a show record with any of the major organizations, you can easily verify that online or with a phone call. Find out!
Oh Boy… One of my favorite topics. Exposing the scammers.
I can’t tell you the number of trainers I’m familiar with that have claimed to have shown in USEF H/Jr or Dressage events (like GP). Run their names here:
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/membershipSearch.aspx
Oppssy.
My farrier once called me about a lady who had an old gelding who was very, very thin. I spoke with her and she said he just wouldn’t eat. A friend and I drove over to pick up to bring him to my place. He was about a 2. Anyway, the owner began telling all this stuff about how she had ridden in the Seoul Olympics and just went on and on about all the people she knew and all the things she had done. We just wondered how she thought that we wouldn’t know that she hadn’t done anything. As if you can’t find out who was on the Olympic Team. She also had every disease known to man. My TB mare had hormone issues and her bags filled with milk and our vet gave the mare a shot of Lasix. As soon as this owner heard that the mare had the lasix shot, she explained how she had just had one too. The old gelding stayed with me for about 4 years, fat and healthy until he had to be euthanized. He was probably 38 years old.
Great guest blog!
Heartbreaking though –
Drillrider – that just makes me sick to think your ferrier would do that.
Good reminder to us all to keep a keen eye on all who handle our horses!
The good ones absolutely can go sour! Also, we are seeing a lot of cases recently where the show string looks great and the broodmares and oldies at home are 1′s and 2′s. So just because someone has a winning show horse doesn’t mean all their horse care is top notch.
>>We just wondered how she thought that we wouldn’t know that she hadn’t done anything. As if you can’t find out who was on the Olympic Team.< <
ROTFL. I worked for a law firm in L.A. where our receptionist told people she’d been on General Hospital. Mistake #1: Um, have you never heard of IMDB? You’re not there. Mistake #2: I had a friend on GH. It’s a small world – don’t lie about your accomplishments!
Oh..where to begin. I found a barn for my daughter that was like this. It was run by a 30 something whose folks had made this place for her and her friend who was the Asst Trainer. (should just be ASS trainer). Anyway. They started at one place broke off to start her own place. Rented a place close by while her folks built her her facility. She actually was a good for a while and so was her friend. My daughter got stuck with the Ass Trainer, I’ll be honest. I didn’t know much, I’d always ridden Western. The horses seemed thin but healthy. Figured it was QH vs TB..You know bulldog vs Greyhound? Anyway..we moved to new place (heard after they were kicked out of the place she was renting) We moved and Boom…15 of the 21 horses has Strangles. Vet said to Quarantine barn and BO continued to have lessons. That was my first warning sign, then some of the adult riders who seemed to know what they were doing left, heard later one had been asked to leave and the other had issues w/BO b/c she was paying for training on a horse that wasn’t being ridden. My daughter was still riding with that Ass Trainer, while she loved it I noticed some of the older horses were so skinny you could see ribs and back bones. Also found out on the days that this girl was suppose to feed, she constantly forgot to water the horses and or turn them out, when the boarders would question her she’d lie to BO and BO always took her side. We live in the deep south..you have to water horses even in the winter.
BO website talked about how she had ARIA certification and was a pro in Stable Management. The place was a pig sty, trash everywhere, horses eating the fence b/c the hay had burrs in them and no grass. Ass Trainer taught my daughter to use her stick to get her lesson horse moving. I was so embarrased when I moved to this current barn and the intructor was mortified b/c my daughter asked for a crop. Anyway..this BO website is a joke talks about how she’s a safety driven intructor and it’s supposed to be fun.. Yah right. So much fun that took my money and wouldn’t refund it. That was the last straw for me. They had summer camps, I put my deposit down and then couldn’t make it. Ass Trainer hung me out to dry and BO took my deposit then wouldn’t answer my calls. When I left there were 40 horses on about 15 acres. They were skinny and no grass. I still have a friend over there and the BO keeps bringing in horses for her students to “upgrade” not ONE has passed a Vet inspection. BO’s parents built her a house on the property and she still isn’t around. The Ass trainer is now heavy into Eventing and thinks she’s a pro. She’s broken 4 horses in 3 years! Oh yeah she’s a pro. My daughter’s new instructor has taken her back to the baby basics. She is just NOW able to jump and it’s been about a year and half since we left that shit hole barn.
I’m amazed my daughter wasn’t seriously injured. There were a few riders who ended up in the ER..now I know that’s the nature of the sport but most where b/c the horses bucked or ran them into the fences. Not a good move. I hate that I stayed there so long and let myself be lulled into the bull. I have heard that they’ve had quite the turnover in adult boarders. The HS kids and younger kids seem to still love it but adults seem to catch on pretty quickly.
So sad..even if the have credentials…they can still be dangerous
When I was 6, my younger sister decided she wanted riding lessons. My dad vaguely knew someone from work who gave lessons. She was actually the owner of one of the two major lesson barns at the time (you know, the type you find in the phone book.) We started taking lessons out there. My sister lost interest but I kept at it. They were really basic lessons, wtc kind of thing (I don’t think I tacked up a horse myself for at least a year.)
A couple years later, she asked if I wanted my own horse, and of course being 8 I said heck yeah! She told me that one of the high-school aged boarders had a pony that she wasn’t riding and wanted to sell because it was just sitting out in the pasture. I talked my parents into letting me try him out. He bucked me off when we tried to canter. Should have been a red flag, but I was young and thought that this would be my only chance at getting a pony, so I cried and begged until my parents relented and bought him for me.
The trainer sold us a western saddle to use. It was older but worked okay. A couple weeks later, she said, “Oh, I must have given you the wrong one, here’s the one I meant to sell you.” Even I could tell it was much crappier, but I didn’t say anything (she was notorious for going off on people.) She talked us into paying for a tie stall at night, buying a winter blanket (which the pony shredded instantly–then she talked us into making repairs, which she did herself, for a huge fee), and taking an extra lesson every week. She would never let me jump him, which was confusing for me and made me sad. (at the time I suspected she just wanted the extra $5 per lesson she was getting by having me ride a school horse instead of my own.) She’d take other kids to shows (they did POA shows back then and my pony was a POA) but would never offer to even let me come watch. And the pony continued to buck, as well as exhibit other fun behaviors, like charging you while longing and spooking.
While we were there, she also sold a girl a jumping prospect who she knew had navicular, and after we left my friends bought a horse from her who was known to pull back violently while tied. He later broke his leg in her trailer, but she didn’t get him checked by a vet and told them he was okay. Being kids, they believed her and continued riding–even jumping–him. They later discovered that yes, he had a broken leg. A year of recovery later and he was fine, but my gosh. What a horrible thing to do. She also bought auction horses and had the more advanced students “test them out.” She was putting one of my friends on horses fresh off the track at 10-12 years old and if she fell off she got yelled at.
We ended up moving to another barn when my parents moved across town. The new BO was appalled to see the crappy old saddle I was riding in as well as the bit the old trainer had told us to use–a double twisted wire bit. The rigging on the saddle that held the cinch in place broke at the new place; a leatherworker informed us that pretty much everything on the underpart of the saddle was completely rotten. I found the pony’s papers so I could show the new BO, and after an actual study of them realized that the pony was only 4 at that point. Which meant he’d been 2 when I bought him and 1 when he had been started, if it was true that the other girl had ridden him the year before. No wonder she didn’t want me jumping him.
The old BO changes disciplines every few years–I’m not sure why but I expect it’s because she doesn’t want proof that they can’t hold up under real competition, as well as the fact that I’m sure she gets a hefty finders fee when she has all her students trade in their horses for new ones capable for their new circuit (they used to do POA, then appys, then hunters, then the local pleasure circuit, then dressage, and now I think are back to hunters. My friend noticed they switched away from appies after she noticed that the BO’s daughter, who was showing non-pro, was taking money for riding boarder’s horses, so maybe someone else noticed, too.)
A couple years ago they had a student who won some big hunter award, but she’s the first I’ve heard in 20+ years of this barn being open, so I tend to suspect that it’s more a case of an unusually talented rider matched with a good horse on a not-very-large circuit, rather than good training. The horse has been for sale for at least a year, maybe two, and its price has dropped in half (right now it’s only $10,000, so I expect that it’s not that great of a hunter anyway.) All their sales ads show overfaced riders jumping with no lower leg contact and throwing their upper bodies away. When we saw them at local shows where she’d bring her really green students, we’d joke that someone would fall off at some point–because someone always did, and it was always someone from her barn. Her jumping lessons were always “get over the jump”, no learning about half-halts, proper seats, or anything like that.
But she still has kids coming in because it’s a good sized city and only a few barns that start new riders. She only has one or two riders who are loyal to her; most everyone else goes, learns how to ride sort of, and then moves on (and I haven’t met many alumni who still think good of her.)
Oh yeah, and she used to own a really old TB stallion who was all swayed and stuff. She kept him inside most of the time, in her dark barn, and I remember his legs looked horrible and stocked up all the time. He was sweet and I remember he was always friendly. Then I guess he died so she bought some big black stallion who was always screaming and kicking his stall walls. Real safe when you have a lesson barn with little kids and elderly horses!
And my friend told me that when she was there, a horse died. I guess they went to a show and while they were gone one of the horses had a seizure or something and must have been freaking out in his stall and then he died and I think she said he actually pulled a wall down before he died. When they got back, all the other horses were freaking out and my friend and her friends, who were all really young, saw it…
I just went to the USEF membership search website (thank you drsgjunky!) and I put in the name of the renters I posted about above just for giggles to see if they are there – the wife first. Her USEF membership has been SUSPENDED… red flag! Her husband isn’t on their membership list. I’m glad I got my horse out there even more now!
I forgot to say what type of suspension! Sorry! She’s a red suspension. That seems to be the worst one.
Heh… had a friend w/ wealthy, very educated parents. She loved horses and hung around where I boarded, BO let her work with a mare to bring her back in condition, fun stuff.
Well… this Trainer arrives from the *drum roll* East Coast, with a great story and lots of confidence. She takes the girl under her wing, parents bankroll a lot of stuff, I think this woman even lived with them for awhile (WTF? Shouldn’t that be Giant Red Flag!??!?!). Girl got an awesome little gelding who taught her a lot, and she was a decent rider. Trainer lady convinces parents that Girl will make it TO THE OLYMPICS. You see how this goes. Girl goes to the big H/J shows in the area, does OK, they sell the gelding & get another prospect, big $$$.
Heh….. I remember her keeping a horse at a friend’s house when the Girl and her family were out of town for an extended period. Supposedly horse is getting advanced training, but my friend said that Trainer Lady never showed up or answered her phone, and since she was under strict orders NOT to turn the horse out, she started ponying the horse out of desperation.
She felt honor-bound to inform the owners when they returned, but Trainer Lady hit the roof, claimed slander.
And now I see that this Trainer Lady (after some weird thing with a farrier and paternity suit) is “Suspended from the privilege of taking any part whatsoever in any Recognized Competition, not allowed on competition grounds.”
I also see that she’s still doing horse-related business in Lugoff, South Carolina.
Great post…
One of my first experiences riding was at a small rented barn not far from our home I was about 10 or 11 and my sister would have been about 7… the lady who ran the barn talked a good line (don’t they all) and won over my mom with her sob storry about losing an eye to cancer at a young age and over coming adversity blah blah blah…the first lesson was good , ono on one instructor for me and my sis …next time we showed up for scheduled lesson and they were just returning from trail ride … “sorry horses too tired for a lesson today”…next time the trainer who was training me sent me home in tears because I couldnt get the horse to trot (this ws perhaps because she never taught me how to ask for this and just kept yelling T- rot) after this my mom who knew nothing about horses had enough and we never went back there…
When my mom’s friend reccomended another barn we went there for lessons and thats when the stories started to come out about “crazy one eye” …she was using boarders horses without their permission for lessons, couldn’t afford hay sometimes so would tell the kids she had hanging around to pick as much grass out of the neighbours fields at night as they could…was supposedly taking lessonf from trainer at our new barn then claiming to be geat trainer at her barn with loads of experience, was keeping a stud in the end stall of the barn so all the horses had to be led past him…many being led by kids…i could go on…thank god that place didn’t last long and i heard that she ended up in a local mental hospital…
The trainer we ride with now is great, and we have been at her place ever since leaving that shit hole…She is knowledgeable and training with very well respected trainers to improve her knowledge as much as she can, takes a large group from our barn to many local shows and most come home with ribbons and coolers, one of her students was in the running for top spot in her jumper division for the area…and she also shows and always does exceptionally well. also I like that if I don’t agree with her method / understand it she’s willing to discuss / explain her side of the story so I can see where she’s coming from (and bottom line its my horse , my decision and she’s the first one to tell me this) …she has never done anything abusive to a horse in all the years i’ve known her…we need more trainers like her!
also re the farrier comment …same thing goes for vets, just because they graded from vet school doesn’t really mean they are all equal…I have a reg vet I love and trust, another who I will use for pre -purchases but nothing else and some I wouldn’t touch with a 10 ft pole..there are ppl at my barn who hate my vet but its because he was being honest … a quality a surprising # of ppl don’t like ( they’d rather hear oh yes your horse is totally suitable for said dicipline even though it has a history of lameness caused by something other than your stupidity…) just my 2 cents but thats why I think if you have someone out to see ur horse make sure you can be there..you know whats being done and can probably learn something too.
This sounds just like a girl I use to board with. She even talked my current trainer into hauling a horse from “her” barn to another barn. A week later my trainer finds out the horse she hauled wasn’t owned by the girl. That’s just the very beginning of all the craziness this girl does.
http://www.wildponybeast.blogspot.com
also fugs re show horses looking great and ones at home looking like shit…this was poss the case with those 2 BC vets who had a buch of horses siezed last year…a friend of a friend knew male vet through work and he was always telling me how Dr’s daughter was showing at the 4 ft division of the local H/J shows (and we know ppl who witnessed this so this wasn’t a lie) …can’t do that if ur a 1 or 2…but back at home the horses were dying…I think more ppl should be snooping over the neighbours fences and stop being afraid to call animal control!
If you’re considering someone as a trainer or instructor, WATCH THEM WORK. If they’re as good as they claim they should want to show off their skills. I got very lucky, my trainer lives 15 minutes down the road, and has offered me a work/trade for board, since I can’t pay for it. I’ve seen her give several lessons, and ride, and while I haven’t looked into her showing record (through intermediate in eventing) she has pictures from shows in her office that are clearly her. She’s not highly competitive, and her stable management could use a little work, but all of the horses are happy and healthy and she knows what she’s talking about. Part of the work she wants done is working with her young projects, which gives me a chance to improve my training (I want to be a trainer) under her eye so I don’t mess up. Couldn’t be happier!
Yeah, credentials are often worth less than the paper they are printed on. To me the most horrible part of this whole thing is the “trainer” who takes advantage of kids. For most of us, our horse dreams started when we were younger and whether we had horses or ponies then, we carried those dreams with us until we could do the horse thing on our own. To destroy a dream or put a kid or their horse/pony in jeopardy is unforgiveable.
As for asking others about the “expert” you are considering sending your horse to, be careful. A lot of them either won’t say anything because they are afraid for their own reputations (like doctors won’t badmouth each other), OR they will figure they had to learn their lesson, so you can learn yours, too.
Do your research, yes. Do not rely on the word of mouth of “former students or employers.” A lot of them won’t tell you the truth. Also beware of trainers who insist you leave the horse a minimum of 60 or 90 days and who do not invite or permit drop-in visits. That’s another red flag. What are they trying to hide, I wonder. The fact that the horse sits in the stall 58 or 88 days and only gets worked the last two days, when you’re sure to show up, perhaps?
Serrari says:
November 9, 2009 at 12:31 pm
I just went to the USEF membership search website (thank you drsgjunky!) and I put in the name of the renters I posted about above just for giggles to see if they are there – the wife first. Her USEF membership has been SUSPENDED… red flag! Her husband isn’t on their membership list. I’m glad I got my horse out there even more now!
=====
To make the USEF hit list, you had to be doing something pretty naughty. Think of it as a not such a good personality trait. Feel free to share with friends.
“Trainers” who won’t let you visit… that always FLOORS me!!!! Dude, it’s MY horse, MY nickel, MY business you want. It’s a 2-way street – actually it should be a 3-way street, b/c the trainer should also help YOU learn to work with YOUR horse.
Great guest blog!
I train, board, and teach lessons, and it does amaze me how few people ask for references. Most of my clients are now word of mouth, but I still get people who just googled my website, and sign up to bring their horse. I often ask them more questions than they ask me.
References that I think people should get aren’t just other clients…those are easy to fake; rather I think you should ask for references for the vet, farrier and/or hay supplier; usually a bad barn/trainer will not have a consistent vet/farrier/feed supplier and/or they will be reluctant to recommend them.
I also think the horse associations need to do more to help educate parents on what to expect from a riding school….some of the ones around here sicken me with the way they treat their horses and/or how they use barely broke horses for kids. My current favourite is the one with that advertises showing photos using young horses in a hard dirt paddock (complete with water tank, open barn door, and loose horse!) for beginner lessons! Did I mention the runners on the kid on the horse?
Horse people are odd too, as we rarely persue the con artists legally, so they move on and continue along their merry way, scamming the next person. Why is that?
Karen
I just learned to ignore the people and listen to the horses.
How right you are and this goes for breeders too! I once left a mare with a breeder only to come back a week later to a completely different animal. Having no trailer with me I put a bridle on her and rode home!! No way was I leaving my horse with a person who referred to her as a nasty bitch.
Wow…
I’m beginning to wonder if I should look up the owner of the barn I use to ride at. How do you look people up without having to really dig through their files? Is there anywhere I can go to get this information?
I can’t believe people do stuff like that! I don’t understand how you can want to scam a child into something and mistreat those people’s horses?!
OT – Sad Craigslist ad. Can anyone in California help these old guys?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/pet/1457117905.html
I have only boarded for a very short time in my horse-owning life, but there was a trainer there who was unbelieveable. She came to the barn with 5 of her own horses at a reduced rate, under the agreement that she would also be bringing at least 5 of her students. Supposedly she trained/showed jumpers. She showed up with 4 elderly horses and one really nice younger mare. She had to make three trips because she had only a crapy, older two horse trailer. The older horses were all sway-backed and hairy in the middle of the summer. The really nice younger mare was brought to the barn and immediately put in a stall. She seemed a bit off but I didn’t ask any questions. Two days later I saw that poor girl and heard her story. She would not load in the two horse trailer. In a last ditch, desperate attempt to load her they tied a long rope around her girth, ran it between her front legs, through her halter, into the trailer and out the feeder door. They then attached the rope to the back of the truck and drove forward. Yes, the mare loaded, but she ended up with the most gawd awful rope burns I have ever seen in my life and of course her legs were beat to hell. They never had a vet out that I know of, only hosed her off occasionally. I will not even go into any of the details about her training abilities – I am sure you have all met this person in one form or another as her story is not unique. When it came time to leave the barn, because of course, she was not living up to her end of the deal, and was not paying her board, there was of course, the issue of the young mare. One of the other boarders took pity on the poor girl and offered his stock trailer to transport her to her new home. They still could not load her, so she left instructions that the mare was not to be fed by anyone other than her. I found out she was trying to coax the mare into the trailer with food, and would not allow her to have hay until she went in. I had had more than I could stand by this point. I took a day off of work to confront her and the barn manager and told them that I would be calling animal control if the horse did not receive regular feedings. I also offered to load the mare up in the trailer for her. It took me three afternoons of working with her, but had her loading with minimal reservation by the third day. She was gone that weekend (she didn’t clean the borrowed trailer when she was done – anyone surprised?). I don’t know what happened to her after that, but I shudder in horror at where those poor horses ended up.
Hey,
I attened the Eugene Horse/tack sale yesterday, and wrote everthing down. Was wondering if you were interested in the “horse sale report”?
OT but received my issue of Horse Illustrated today and saw that Pat Parelli has been named the Humane Society of the United States Horseman of the Year. It’s on page fifteen if anyone wants to read about the award.
I could see that one coming about half way into the story. Sad, just really sad. You should always VERIFY that a person has the experience they say. If they say it was a USEF show, you can find that on line on the USEF web site’s section about show results. Almost any circuit has results somewhere which you can verify.
OFF TOPIC – Fugs, I wish you would do a post about people who are facing retirement, as in “I can no longer take care of my horses at home, or teach, train, etc.” I am facing this. I’d like to share with others who are facing the same thing. I can’t afford to put a horse with a trainer, pay what they charge, and show. And I can’t do it myself any longer.
There was a time when my horse wuold be very naughty in his stall. He was fine before, but then all of a sudden, he started getting agressive. When i would walk in there, he would pin his ears and turn away very quickly and try to kick, then run outside into the run as fast as possible. I figured out that if i went slow, talked to him, and really just let him know that it was me, he was fine and would stand there no problem and let me halter him.
I was a stall cleaner at that barn but i cleaned the other side. So one day i was talking to one of the cleaners who did my horse’s stall and she told me what she would do when horses wouldn’t go into their runs. She told me that she wuold jab them with the pitch fork where ever she could hit them; whether it be the legs, the ribs, the butt, or the chest, it didn’t matter to her. She’d beat them til they learned to leave the stall when ever the door opens.
She got fired soon after for abusing another horse and then harassing me (i was only 15 at the time and she was 36). As soon as she was gone, my horse was back to normal and would wait for me in his stall.
You just have to be willing to investigate and do something about it.
The woman discussed in the guest blog has many counterparts, apparently. I boarded my gelding with such a person, before I knew better. The woman preyed on ‘newbies’ but could talk a good enough game to snow one woman who trained and showed 4th level dressage. No matter what was going on, this woman could come up with a plausible ‘story’ that would make it sound perfectly understandable.
It was a dressage barn, a jumper barn.. and not long after I put my gelding there for boarding, it became a ‘gaited’ barn; the BO (who was not the property owner..) said many times that ‘gaited’ was where the money would soon be going to.
Strangely enough, the woman could never quite develop a following. People would come, be enthused, and then >poof< disappear, and it was made clear that one should not ask too many questions. Usually blame was shifted to the boarder or the client… We were not really 'allowed' to share things like last names.. phone numbers.. etc… and seeds of distrust were planted left and right.
Smart move.. if you get your clients to not-trust one another, they won't compare notes. Well.. about a half dozen of us DID begin to compare notes.. and we all ended up leaving within the span of a few weeks.
I saw people taught to fear their own horses — and encouraged to let the BO represent them as 'sale horses'.. the horses were never 'represented'… board would build up till the BO could claim the horses. Other schemes were used to obtain horses… working students soon became more like slaves, and the turnover was amazing.
One horse was sold to 'co-owners' multiple times — and each time, the co-owner would get fed up and leave, cutting their losses by not laying claim to this horse (who was a cow hocked 15:1h thoroughbred, whom the BO said had potential to make it to grande prix level in either dressage or jumping — depending upon what the new 'prey' was looking for)
I spent at least 5 days a week out there, one summer.. and finally I realized that all those things I'd shrugged off while looking at the 'big picture' actually WERE the big picture — and I loaded both my horses up and left, without using about 1.5 grande in prepaid board. (stupid me) Fortunately, my horses were not there for 'training' and I showed up often enough and was vigilant enough about them that my gelding was never used for anything without authorization (that I know of) They were not drugged, nor were they 'trained'… but other horses were.
Karma finally came round after about four years…
http://tinyurl.com/yb8kk2m
This woman did a huge number on my confidence… however, I did get an opportunity to ride a number of very different horses while boarding and 'hanging out' at the barn… that all ended when I got my mare, as a two year old, instead of buying into the 'grande prix prospect' mentioned above. Suddenly, I was incapable of handling any of the horses I'd been riding for nearly a year! Wonder which 'feedback' was lies designed to keep me sucked into the scam destroyed my belief in my own capabilities for awhile — and others were completely destroyed in terms of confidence.
I was angry for a long, long time that such people manage to stay in business.. they seem to pop up everywhere, and leave before the whole truth comes out. The woman in question ended up evicted, after numerous horses had died due to the deterioration of what HAD BEEN very nice pasture… yes, karma finally spoke. Time will tell if anything was learned from it.
I felt like I was reading something out of my life.
When I was back in college, I had replied to an ad online offering pasture board for a very decent fee with year-round water, daily health checks, etc. Nothing fancy, but neither were my horses nor myself. There were big plans for this farm, and liking the location and the seemingly normal “owner,” I opted to board my two geldings there. She said she was well-known in rescue, etc. (little did I know that was a bad thing for her).
When work started on the construction of the riding ring, the owner’s name on the building permit/erosion control was a neighborhood….not the “owner” (we’ll call her “Stacy”) that I had met. I questioned her about it, and she said, “oh…that’s a development company. They’re the ones doing the work.” *head scratch*
Anytime I paid board, she would meet me at the end of her driveway. She was all too quick to say, “NO….that’s okay…I’ll meet you at the mailbox” (across from the pasture). I didn’t think anything of it until one day when I went to pay my board, and I called her, she didn’t answer her phone.
I decided to drive up to her house, and there were three houses there. There was a normal house, another normal house, and sandwiched in between the two looked like a shack that had been foreclosed upon. There were chainlink dog kennels around two sides of the house, using the brick on the side of the house as the backs of the kennels. The windows were broken, there was male-dog urine-soaked carpet thrown onto the front porch. I thought, “cool – someone made a literal DOG house.”
I proceeded to the first house who informed me that “Stacy” didn’t live there. She lived there (and pointed to the shack). I was shocked. I walked up to the front porch and past the urine-soaked carpet, and I knocked on the door. I heard several dogs barking, and when I peeked in the window, I saw that there were over 15 dogs inside scrambling across exposed plywood floors to bark at me. She never answered, and the stench was AWFUL.
She showed up 30 minutes later when I was feeding my horses. I asked her about the house, she said, “yeah they are animal controls’ dogs -they just haven’t come and got them, and I’m gutting my house.”
Things started to progress a month down the road, and I couldn’t trust her at all. I was going to get a pony that came from the local horse rescue. I was told by “Stacy” that I needed to get Pony-A because it was actually her son’s pony that they HAD to turn over their horses and pony to the rescue, and he really missed his pony. She told me, “you can adopt her, I will pay for her care, John-boy can ride her, I promise.” I opted NOT to get a pony as something just wasn’t right…she HAD to turn her horses and pony over?? She went ahead and told her son I was getting Pony-A back for him. He came running down to the pasture the next day thanking me for getting his pony back and when was she coming. WTH?? Let’s not forget she had the patience of a raging bull and the temper that would rival that of a starving lion. I decided to move my horses.
Actually, I wrote a 30 days notice stating I was moving my horses. I handed it to her, and I asked her about the state boarding license for the property, and she snapped back, “I GOT IT!” Then, after receiving my 30 days notice she asked me to leave “sooner” than that. SO I DID.
As I was loading up my first horse into the trailer, a man in a pick up truck slowly drove by, saw me, and zipped down into the trailer area and blocked my truck. He asked me who I was and what did I think I was doing with “Stacy’s” horse. I asked him to repeat himself, and he got snotty saying, “You heard me! That’s ‘Stacy’s’ horse!” I showed him MY horse’s ownership papers, coggins, vaccination records, etc. (as I had to haul with a current coggins anyways, and my paperwork is in a 3-ring binder.) He called the police to come check things out. They did….saw it was my horse, and the man was FURIOUS saying, “she’s not supposed to have any d**n boarders!” He got in his truck and headed up the hill to the woman’s house. I asked the police officer if he could stay by my rig while I got my other horse, and he was more than happy to do so.
Just like the guest blogger, this woman did NOT own the property….she rented. She told the OWNER (guy in the truck) that MY two horses were HER horses. The “development company doing the work” was the REAL owner’s company who OWNED the property.
She was a real piece of work.
Wow, some people have no souls at all. I probably don’t even want to know what she was doing to that pony.
People talk about credentials and qualifications for a trainer. Personally, you can throw all college degrees out the window when it comes to a qualified trainer (and I can say this because I went to one of those colleges years ago). What I want to know is provable accomplishments and REAL references. Ones that I can call etc. I don’ t think training horses is just something you can decide to be. You have to have inborn talent and no amount of formal education can do that for you.
I am training/working 2 horses, a pony and a yearling. I don’t have big name resume of people I have worked under.
I can train a horse to do a lot. I can’t train a horse to be a show horse, except basic dressage.
I can teach a kid how to stay on the horse, to make it go left / right, stop, back and see them smile as they ride.
I am safe, and teach safety.
I got the biggest compliment from the fellow who’s horses I work/train… he said, “whatever you are doing with them, you are doing it right.”
His pony is a 3/4 yr old green broke shetland, he told me he had a gal out last year and her friend out to try to work with him to take a bit.. he had got away from them and took off accross the field. The vet was terrified of him…
The bit he got with the pony is a pony curb bit.. for a greenbroke 3 yr old…We got him a pony snaffle.. and wow..
He takes the bit and worming medicine just fine now. He saddles well and I am line driving him, and leaning my weight on him so he gets used to all that again.
He wants to eventually put his 4 yr old grand son on him.. I am going to have my 11 yr old neighbor girl come sit on him and ride him around a bit first.
I have trained my own horse to do a lot. I have worked and trained horses for people via word of mouth.
I don’t have a training stable, I don’t have a piece of paper… but my friend who I helped find a 6 yr old arab mare for.. I trained the mare for her, but she did all the in saddle work..
We went for her 3rd trail ride ever, a costume ride that lasted nearly 3 hours…
They both had a blast.
that is enough for me.
A bit of topic, but I really wanted to share this.
About a year and a half ago we bought a 7 y.o. reg. MFT mare. She was a bit skinny, may be a 4, but in good overall health and clearly spoilt. She was slow – like whoever was riding her either led her on a line with a small child in the saddle, or the rider was a novice and never asked her to go faster than a walk. Her name was Sugar and she liked people. The first two weeks she hid from the rest of the horses in the woods, and if any attempted to come check her out, she would squeel and kick at them. But Sugar would always come when she saw us coming and great us and follow around. She was the most people horse I’ve ever met.
My husband and I took turns riding her. Sugar gained weight and got into good physical condition. Now, she quit going from walk to trot, instead she could gait consistently on a loose rein. She was getting along with the rest of the horses. I’ve taken her out on trail rides alone, and we did fight some on the way out (she’d attempt to turn back toward home), but evenlually I would win and we’d get on our way just peachy. Sugar was in good shape at this point and an easy keeper. She’s been ridden in different types of saddles we had, and a friend of mine who always rides with a bareback pad rode Sugar on one trail ride – and said she did just great – very responsive and fun (her, my 9 y.o. and I were chasing each other, throwing sumac barries and leaves at each other, and generally horsing around).
We were hoping for Sugar to be our youngest’s horse – he was 6. But he proved to be not ready – he just couldn’t be confident enough to let the horse walk and would pull on the reins constantly. Sugar was very patient with him, walking super-slow, but I knew it wasn’t fair to her, so we advertized her for sale. Her new owner is an adult man with about a year-worth of trail experience.
The first thing that happened is the saddle that they bought for her was too long in the back and curved down, and put pressure on the small of her back, right on the spine. The rubbing caused inflamation and she developed a painful knot on her spine. The vet suggested a treatment with antibiotics and topical cream, and for her not to be ridden untill healed. The knot went down, he back wasn’t sore anymore, and Sugar was taken on a 30 miler with a saddle pad that had a cut-out over the previously hurt area. By the end of the day she had 3 knots come up and her back was painful and swollen. She was put to pasture to recover. During the time of her back being hurt, she lost weight and the new owner tried to fatten her up. They didn’t see much improvement using Safe Choice, so they switched her to corn chops.
When Sugar’s owner saddled her up this past Saturday and tried to take her out by herself, she bucked. He got off and put her up. On Sunday we came up after a trail ride, because honestly, we couldn’t believe she bucked. My husband got on her – using his Aussie saddle that is very short. She bucked with him half way up the drive way. She argued a lot going down the rode away from the house. On the way back, he fought with her not to turn into the driveway. I rode her next – she bucked with me too. Then my husband rode her again – and again she bucked and argued wherever she could by stopping, attempting to turn around, walking in a zig zag pattern down the road instead of straight, spooking at things (the only time she’s ever spooked in the previous year, was when we were going down hill on the side of a highway, and a semi came up behind us with his air-breaks on)…
I couldn’t believe that a horse could change so much in such a short time, it’s only been 3 months, tops. The first thing I told them, is that they need to lay off the chops – surely all those carbs are making her way hotter than usual. If they want her fatter, they need to give her a weigh gain supplement, or rice bran, or just top-dress her feed with a bit of oil. And the other thing, but I didn’t say it, is that for Sugar to get so disrespecful in such a short time, her new rider must not be showing her any kind of leadership. I don’t know if getting her back hurt would have affected Sugar’s behavior. Either way, it is so heartbreaking for me. I really liked Sugar, she was a good horse for us. And now I see her affected negatively by her new home, and I fear they will sell her, and who knows where she’ll end up.
We have a 3+ y.o. mare we were advertizing for sale. I told my husband tonight that I’m not selling her – I just can’t take the chance of the new owner ruining her and negating all the training we’ve done, and her going to the auction barn. All these people out there who “love horses” and want to have one for an occasional trail ride, but don’t know anything about horsemanship and don’t want to go to trouble to learn anything about it – they should just stick to 4wheelers. These types of riders ruin good horses.
Great guest blog, Monique. And thanks for having her on here, Fugs. You made an excellent pint, that magazines don’t always check their resources. Therefore, TO ALL WHO OWN OR WHO ARE WANTING TO BUY GAITED HORSES: there is a major magazine publication out there for horse people that has done interviews with a man that is a gaited horse trader in NM and NV who is a proven scam artist. I have experienced his scams and lies myself first hand when I went to look at some horses he had for sale for a client. Apparently he was run out of CO because of what he does. I wrote to the magazine to let them know about him, but I didn’t hear back from them, so who knows. If they had investigated his place and who he is in person, they wouldn’t be interviewing him for advice in their articles.
So, I have to agree here: make sure you do your homework. I am so glad I went and looked at this guys horses before buying the one my client wanted–I will never, never recommend him to anyone and tell people to steer clear!
Oops. I meant “point.” Sorry about that!
Great guest blog! Oh barn drama, how we loathe you.
We’re in the middle of quite a bit of barn drama ourselves, and hoping it doesn’t get worse. We got sucked into a crazy barn, but under a good barn manager. Its not her fault the owner is BAT SHIT CRAZY and a giant liar, but we may end up moving our guys instead.
I hate barn drama, heck, I hate drama. UGH.
Fugs- I used the website you posted to search up a trainer I’m considering taking some lessons from, and she comes up with her status listed as “Inactive” in red. That means the “Suspended from taking part in any capacity in any event and banned from event grounds” applies because the “INACTIVE” is printed in red?
Her name is Linda Abrams, she’s in GA, and she claims to have trained with George Morris, “I Have a full service stable with boarding, lessons and training. Member of GHJA, SHJA, ISSO, ADS. I trained with George Morris, Mike Plumb Sr., Ronnie Mutch, Roul DeLeon and others well known in the show world.”
A friend’s daughter hired a new riding instructor to come to her house to give her lessons in her bautiful new indoor arena. Imagine their suprise when scanning the web one day to find this instructor’s web site. When they took a look, things looked very familiar. There were photos of THIER arena, THEIR barn, and THEIR horses – all claiming to be owned by the instructor. Surprise! And, she was advertising to take on more students and boarding others horses at the same barn!!!
Two different people I know took photos of different horses off the internet and posted them in their farm brochures, claiming that they were their horses. One of them used a photo off the net to advertise her STALLION at stud! The stallion photo was of a well known show horse, her stallion was GRADE.
Another stole the custom made farm logo my friend had made for her farm, and just changed the horse’s color from black to chestnut.
Another had a horse for sale. My friend gushed over how much she wanted to buy it and went to the bank to get the sizable money. When she got the money, she called the seller. Opps, horse had already been sold to someone. When she was standing behind her at a show at the entry booth, she overheard the staff ask her who owned the horse – SHE DID. She was the mysterious buyer!
The list goes on and on and on.
The world is filled with liars and cheeters.
A friend’s daughter hired a new riding instructor to come to her house to give her lessons in her bautiful new indoor arena. Imagine their suprise when scanning the web one day to find this instructor’s web site. When they took a look, things looked very familiar. There were photos of THIER arena, THEIR barn, and THEIR horses – all claiming to be owned by the instructor. Surprise! And, she was advertising to take on more students and boarding others horses at the same barn!!!
Two different people I know took photos of different horses off the internet and posted them in their farm brochures, claiming that they were their horses. One of them used a photo off the net to advertise her STALLION at stud! The stallion photo was of a well known show horse, her stallion was GRADE.
Another stole the custom made farm logo my friend had made for her farm, and just changed the horse’s color from black to chestnut.
Another had a horse for sale. My friend gushed over how much she wanted to buy it and went to the bank to get the sizable money. When she got the money, she called the seller. Opps, horse had already been sold to someone. When she was standing behind her at a show at the entry booth, she overheard the staff ask her who owned the horse – SHE DID. She was the mysterious buyer!
The list goes on and on and on.
The world is filled with liars and cheeters.
A friend’s daughter hired a new riding instructor to come to her house to give her lessons in her bautiful new indoor arena. Imagine their suprise when scanning the web one day to find this instructor’s web site. When they took a look, things looked very familiar. There were photos of THIER arena, THEIR barn, and THEIR horses – all claiming to be owned by the instructor. Surprise! And, she was advertising to take on more students and boarding others horses at the same barn!!!
Two different people I know took photos of different horses off the internet and posted them in their farm brochures, claiming that they were their horses. One of them used a photo off the net to advertise her STALLION at stud! The stallion photo was of a well known show horse, her stallion was GRADE.
Another stole the custom made farm logo my friend had made for her farm, and just changed the horse’s color from black to chestnut.
Another had a horse for sale. My friend gushed over how much she wanted to buy it and went to the bank to get the sizable money. When she got the money, she called the seller. Opps, horse had already been sold to someone. When she was standing behind her at a show at the entry booth, she overheard the staff ask her who owned the horse – SHE DID. She was the mysterious buyer!
The list goes on and on and on.
The world is filled with liars and cheeters.
In addition to the lessons to be learned about scam trainers and stables, the thing that leaps out to me, as the parent of two kids ages 12 and 14: no child that age should be in solely charge of making such major decisions as where to board a horse, who to train with, buying and selling horses, etc. I don’t care if the parents are “non-horsey.” A 13-yo is “non-adulty” and shouldn’t be making adult decisions. My 14-yo is “violiny” and knows more about the instrument than I ever will, but I consider it my job as his parent to educate myself sufficiently to make informed choices (with his input) about suitable instructors, instrument upgrades, care and maintenance, etc. This sort of due diligence is even more critical when you’re dealing with the care of a live animal–ignorance is no excuse!
FreedomTreeless says..
Fugs- I used the website you posted to search up a trainer I’m considering taking some lessons from, and she comes up with her status listed as “Inactive†in red. That means the “Suspended from taking part in any capacity in any event and banned from event grounds†applies because the “INACTIVE†is printed in red?
=====
Are you referring to the USEF membership search? I think there’s a little confusion on how suspended/non-suspended members are listed. The USEF should probably consider changing the colors of INACTIVE. Red is not a good choice for an inactive membership. All that means is they aren’t a current member, probably from letting their membership laps.
I did look up a suspended member and their full name shows in RED with the word suspended under it. The INACTIVE in red means nothing. Poor choice of colors.
My original intention was for a place you can check to see if said “trainer” was ever a USEF member. A requirement if they have competed in USEF sanctioned events. Active or inactive means nothing other than they were a USEF member at some point.
This link lists suspended members. You can sort by name, State, Start Date, Horses By Owner at the top of the page or use your browser to search for a name.
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Suspension/default.aspx
Opppsss.. laps = lapse
My mother is not horsey – she rode just often enough to know how exhileratingly wonderful riding can be – but she was, first and foremost, an adult. She helped to pick out a barn, using good sense and ‘do I trust these people with my kid’ as guidelines. There are, unfortunately, things that outsiders – and even more experienced riders – can’t always judge. I know a number of people who have fallen for bad instruction (people who say something that sounds plausible, that might win in the showring, but which isn’t ultimately in the interest of horse and rider), and I myself have boarded at several yards that were fine at inspection, but deteriorated over time, often because the owner’s circumstances changed. (Owner A a) lied and b) got a job and was no longer able/willing to do yardwork. Owner B adopted two kids and no longer concentrated all his energy into the farm. Owner C just grew older and no longer had the energy to work full steam all the time, but was too stubborn to admit it and hire help.) The point is that anyone can sign up at a place and only later discover that it wasn’t as sold. (Place A with its 30 acres of grazing, most of which had horses on it when I viewed the farm, for instance. 5 acres were only used for holiday liveries, 21 acres belonged to the farmer husband and held only the owner’s two horses, ever. The last four acres were split among twelve liveries. Crumble, sharing a 1.5 acre field, was lucky in comparison.) Nobody should beat themselves up over that.
Ignoring obvious warning signs (such as obvious danger points) and not leaving when you realise you’re in a bad place are something else. You do not, as someone else said, let a 13yo make decisions including picking a yard and buying/selling a horse.
I’ve always found that ‘can I explain this to a non-horsey friend who then won’t look at me as if I’m mad’ was a good yardstick. “Why is that horse dripping with sweat and rolling its eyes? Why are there sharp things everywhere where kids and dogs and horses can get into them? Why is there no water in the buckets? Why is this fence fixed with baling twine?” If there isn’t a very good reason why something that makes no sense is acceptable, then you shouldn’t accept it, not even if ‘everybody does it’. Chances are, ‘everybody’ means ‘everybody at your barn/in your circle who is equally brainwashed’ – and that other horsey people would be mortified.
It amazes me how often I see grooms lying about being trainers. One guy I unfortunately know joined a group on facebook called “end horse racing” and played trainer and even invited the group to come see his barn. I CONSTANTLY catch this kid lying about being a trainer in an attempt to pick up women. He also lied about owning a horse we named “julie”. I remember that one well, because not only did I pull her out of her mother when I worked for her breeder, I was also there to put her down due to severe starvation and dehydration. Asshat brought her into the training facility I was working at saying it was his horse and that he wanted to start training her. After literally dragging the poor horse off the trailer, we promptly called the SPCA and had our vet come out. The vet guessed that the only water and food she had since being left there was from eating snow and eating bark off of trees (lots of evidence of this at the farm) and digging up some grass from under the snow. We tracked down the real owners and found out that he had two other horses at the farm the filly came from. The filly was put down a few days after arriving at the farm. We tried to save her but its hard to save a horse that’s so far gone they won’t eat. The SPCA of course paid a visit to this farm to remove the other two horses. Only one was found and it was put down on the spot as it was in even worse shape than the filly. The other one was likely sold while asshat continued to charge board on them or it was dead in the back 40 somewhere. Either way the owner was absolutely IRATE, covered all the vet bills and promptly proceeded to sue asshat and his father. (Dad was collecting the board money and kid was supposed to be taking care of the horses). The SPCA did not press charges on the owner, the did however press charges on the asshat family, who promptly skipped town. I know the Dad just got out of jail and was in there for multiple frauds, so its not like he hasn’t done anything like this before.
“Fugs- I used the website you posted to search up a trainer I’m considering taking some lessons from, and she comes up with her status listed as “Inactive†in red. That means the “Suspended from taking part in any capacity in any event and banned from event grounds†applies because the “INACTIVE†is printed in red?”
Actually, I believe “inactive” means “hasn’t paid her dues this year.” “Suspended” means suspended.
“Impromptu”, I think you have a horse in pain. Just because the bumps are gone doesn’t meant the pain is gone — or that she has forgetten than being ridden HURTS. It’ really sounds to me as if she is still in pain and doing the best she can to tell you so.
One word: MARSHA.
She scammed and migrated, then wound up with a slap on the wrist in Florida after some fallout with the Mangled Largo Marching Dorks.
Thanks for the link to the USEF suspended list. I found a few people in there I know or know of, including the lady who bred the yearling sabino Arab colt that was discussed here a while back. Not too surprising. The fellow who seduced a friend’s husband is also in there. Thankfully, none of the people I currently trust with my horses and do business with are there.
There are crazy liars out there, and the horse business seems to attract an unusually high number of them. You really do have to do your homework. If the deal seems to be too good, it probably is.
I’ve done pretty well, I usually follow references from knowledgeable horse-people I know and trust.
One time I did board a gelding at a place that was not recommended but it was cheap, and it turns out they did not feed adequately. Their horses in the front of the place were in good shape, the boarder horses were varying shades of thin. I was young and didn’t pay enough attention to that. Live and learn…look at the condition of the boarder horses, not the owner’s show horses!
Another place I boarded at with a knowledgeable friend, we were both there every day to keep an eye on things. This was at a time when we were both short on cash and the price was right. The manager was well-meaning but not knowledgeable, and we ended up educating him. At least he was sane, honest, and willing to learn.
Another place I moved a stallion to after a crazy time. We had a very wet winter and flooding and this was the 3rd move for him in a few months. He had a nice stall and run, with good drainage and footing. They were going to feed, turn out, and groom. (In order to get him out of the mud, I had to move him pretty far away, so I couldn’t see him very often.) I went to check him after a few weeks and he had noticeably lost weight. The barn manager said something about how he wasn’t eating all his food within an hour, so she was giving him less hay. Of course this was a horse who hadn’t ever had to fight anyone for food, he was used to making breakfast last until dinner and vice versa. I told her he had lost weight and she was supposed to give him as much as he would eat, meaning that if he had a few wisps of breakfast hay still around when she fed dinner that would be just about right. (this was not a “cheap deal” place, I was paying enough to cover any wasted hay). I also provided supplementary feed to get his weight back up, which they gave him each day. He began to noticeably gain weight after that. But…the manager’s daughter was supposed to be turning him out and grooming him. It turned out she wasn’t doing that, apparently she had developed some health issues and wasn’t up to doing anything with the horses. The manager was honest about that, she told me what happened, and gave me a full refund for the weeks he didn’t get turned out and groomed. I didn’t even have to ask, she brought it up and returned the $. I would have liked a more timely notification. He had a big enough run that he didn’t suffer from not being turned out in the Big Pasture, but his coat could have used more attention.
Hmmm…this isn’t looking so bad, is it?
I have been very fortunate, apparently I’ve managed to steer clear of the crazies, and deal mostly with honest, competent people (or at least honest people).
Of course the crazy liars exist because there is a new crop of newbies every year, and they assume that anyone with horses must know what they’re doing, so they’re easy prey for the unethical and incompetent. Sometimes they are lucky and fall in with the honest and competent, but sometimes they end up in a bad place and don’t even know it. Of course the bad places usually have a lower price tag, which attracts the newbie kid’s parents who are looking for a bargain.
Someone mentioned their kid’s violin lessons, and there is a parallel. I teach guitar lessons, and every year I get parents who will buy their child the cheapest guitar, or one that is the wrong size or type, and their child can’t play that instrument because it is unsuitable. They can get a proper instrument for the cost of 2 months lessons, and while they are happy to pay for months of lessons, they won’t spend $150 for a decent beginner’s instrument.
The parallel? I’m sure you know this…the parents who buy their horse-crazy kid the cheapest equine they can find, which is of course too young to be ridden and completely untrained. Or they go to the place with the cheapest lessons, and the teacher is not competent and the lessons are conducted without any regard to safety. And the parents don’t know enough to realize their child is not being taught how to ride correctly and they are risking their child’s life.
Someone mentioned the need for parents to educate themselves if their child is going to take riding lessons or acquire a pony, and I agree 100%. So many of these bad stories involve children getting scammed and endangered, if the parents got some education they would be able to spot when something isn’t right with a place on first inspection and save their child a great deal of aggravation (and possible injury).
alphamare, it has crossed my mind. If she was my horse, I would be taking her to a chiroproctor (the vet had nothing more to offer). But that was my point – she is no longer my horse and as such I have no bearing on her future. I don’t know how correct these feelings are, but I keep thinking that the new owners have “damaged” Sugar with a bad saddle and now have lost “confidence” in her due to her bucking (and overfeeding with corn may have added to the behavioral issue). In essence, Sugar has a good chance of going to slaughter because of what they’ve done. I’m so tired of people having the “user” attitude toward animals, instead of “steward”.
Please check out my latest answer to the question: “How do I pick a good, honest, stable? I just posted it today.
http://www.HorsesDIY.com
This story reminds me of something that happened to me around two years ago.
I was 16 I think. I am a rider since the age of 8, but I had not ridden in over a year, and had not seriously worked with horses or ridden in many more. I sold my first horse when I was 14 because I couldn’t spend enough time with her as I found as I entered high school. And too I was going through a silly phase where I was getting out of horses.
So I started looking, at age 16, in December, for a nice trail mount, and maybe something to work on a little bit. I looked at a few horses, nothing seemed to suit me. I was paying out of pocket for everything, including tack and other necessities.
Being stupid and naive, I was attempting to buy the PERFECT horse for $500. In hindsight, I was rushing things far too much. And after having been out of riding for so long, I needed lessons more than anything before rushing out to purchase a horse.
But, I was stupid. That is all I have to say about it, is I was a complete idiot.
I was (an still am, off and on) a member of a message board geared towards my state. I posted stating what I was looking for. A supposedly reputable seller e-mailed me about a four year old mare they had. They raved wondrous things about her. How I was so blind that I couldn’t see that any horse like that someone is selling for $500 is clearly not all they say, I don’t know. But I got messages from several other users (and these people were not the seller on fake accounts, nor extremely close friends, but rather people who had bought from them) expressing what wonderful people they were.
I went out to see the mare the day after. She was cute. A 14hh overo paint. But even then I wasn’t naive enough to think I could ride a horse’s color, so it wasn’t her flashy coat that sold me on her. She was just so good. She was calm, smooth, although lazy. But the warning flags were EVERYWHERE.
The place was a dump, pretty much. And they had a rather rank stallion right out front that even at that time didn’t look breeding quality to me. Kind of looked like he was put together by a committee, if you get my drift. They had no tack to properly fit the mare, luckily my own saddle I brought did, but we barely found a girth to fit her. Their “stalls” looked like shabby little boxes you’d see animals in at the petting zoo. But aesthetics aren’t everything in horse care, so I suppose that can’t count against them.
But the big flag should have been that the mare was eating her dinner when I arrived. They knew I was coming. You’d think they’d have fed her at least an hour before, or waited until I finished riding. It stuck me as odd at the time, but I was so excited that the mare might be “the one” that I didn’t think on it too much. And of course the ride, as I said, went perfect. Looking back, the poor mare acted like she was dazed. And she was. I now am certain she was drugged when I tried her.
As I was leaving, they told me they were going out of town the next week. I said I’d like some time to think about her. They said they couldn’t guarantee she’d be here in a week. I took a chance and bought her on the spot.
A week later, I picked her up. The sellers, as they said, were not home that week. She was calm and cool though. When we put her shipping boots on, she had a little bit of a spaz. I assumed they never wrapped her legs before. We loaded her anyway, but she was far too upset by the shipping boots. We thought she’d be safer if we took them off, as she was at risk of flipping the way things were going.
After they were off, she trailed quiet as a mouse. We even joked that she might have fallen off somewhere things were so quiet. But when we got her to the barn, she was still there.
I should note that I was boarding her at a friend’s (who was also on the message board I met the seller on), who was starting up a boarding facility. She had not built her facilities yet, but she kindly allowed me discount board to just let my new mare stay in her pasture with her three horses. We unloaded her, let her look around, and everything was fine.
I came out the next day, tried to lunge her. She freaked. She reared, and tried to drag me off. Should have been the BIG warning sign. She SHOULD have been used to lunging, if the seller had trained her. It was a shock to me. She was so calm on the ground in hand. This went on for a few days. Then, I attempted to ride her. I had ordered a girth for her, as the one I had did not fit properly, so I decided to hop on bareback. Now, that was a big mistake on my part. A really, really stupid one. My friend and her husband helped me mount up. Instantly, the mare went ballistic. Not just nervous antics. Back arched rearing and bucking. Not even hardly on her yet, not that I’d have stayed on anyway, I went flying. A stabbing pain went through my body. I had completely thrown a disk in my back. I couldn’t even walk hardly. My friend ran to help me up.
Her husband settled the mare down, and put a saddle on her and lunged her. She bucked, back arched, just totally spazzing out.
There were mistakes made on my part after that, including ranting about it on the message board. It’s hard to believe so short ago I was so naive and immature…it has taught me a huge lesson, for sure.
The seller, however, came out to “prove” the mare was trained. Only doing so because my mother had not signed the waiver papers. I did. And they allowed it, knowing I was only 16 and couldn’t legally sign a contract of any sort. In other words, they thought we might sue. Thankfully for him, we aren’t sue happy.
So, they came out, with a camera and everything. They were in one foul mood. They even threatened the friends who were boarding the mare with a lawsuit, as my friend did post her opinion on the board as well.
The man brought his own tack. The saddle was a massive roper saddle. This is a small 14hh pony, that will be carrying a full size man in a saddle that weighs at LEAST 50lbs, if not more…this is not to say that that factor alone would cause her to obey. Oh no.
He was very secretive as he put her bridle on. Wouldn’t let us see the bit. He waited a couple of minutes, checking tack over rather slowly and carefully. He got on. And he did ride her. But she was very, very tense.
There were harsh words exchanged as he left. He offered to buy her back. I didn’t want him to get her back. Oh no. He told he I’d sell her to the meat factory. If I wasn’t almost immobilized, I’d have popped him in the nose. I told him he was the one who’d sell her to the meat factory. They left. We left. I got an e-mail from my friend later that evening. It had some pictures. Of the mare laying in the field, dead asleep. She said that right after we left, the mare laid down and went into a deep sleep. She had thick, brown gunk around her mouth in the pictures. My friend said they went out to check on her, and she didn’t even stir when they stood RIGHT by her to take the pictures.
He drugged her. Again. And right in front of us. Stupidly, we didn’t DNA test. I wish we had now. Then I might have become sue happy.
A few days later I got in contact with a woman who said she sold the mare to the man, with first refusal rights. He did not even inform her he was selling the mare, and what’s more, for more than she paid. I knew I was in no position to train the mare. I wasn’t in the position to be on a green broke four year old, no matter how calm, in the first place. I gladly sold her back to her original owner for what I paid for her.
She came and got the mare, and all was well. I never heard more, but I’m sure she had choice words for the seller.
It was a big lesson learned for me. It made me a lot smarter and a lot more mature. Two years, a lot of lessons and good horses, and college life has made me grow up and wise up tenfold. But after that experience, I absolutely do not overlook anything with horses. I’m not looking to buy any time soon, but I am looking to lease a nice little show buddy for me to school and show on, and it can be guaranteed, I will be getting a second opinion, and I will be taking some careful notice of those red-flags before I sign anything.
Lesson learned.
OT:
I thought it was standing on a hill, but I really don’t think it is!
http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/grd/1454023967.html