People for the Eating of Tasty Arabians?
Oct 29 2009
Â
The Arabian Horse Association, clearly taking its cues from AQHA re ignoring its own members’ feelings on the issue, approved a resolution on May 16, 2009 to support the idea of re-opening American horse slaughterhouses. Now all of the completely appalled AHA members have made a website called the AHA Mission Supporters, in which they point out that it’s contrary to AHA’s own mission statement to support slaughter. Heh, heh, heh…touche.Â
Â
In every situation, the welfare of the breed shall be paramount over all considerations.Â
The best interests of the Arabian Horse must be the criterion in all transactions.
Members and their employees or agents shall at all times treat the proud breed of Arabian HorseÂ
with the kindness, respect, and affection, which the horse’s long history deserves.
- From the AHA Handbook
Yeah, it’s kind of hard to figure out how hammering a horse in the head with a captive bolt gun and then hoisting him up by a chain around his back leg to bleed out is compatible with kindness, respect and affection, isn’t it now? And AHA’s ridiculous justifications for this resolution were easy to disprove. You may recall that I pointed out that their “extensive research” into the issue apparently and obviously consisted of a single article in USA Today. I’ve done more online research on where to go for lunch.
My original blog entry on the issue
Now, there’s no question there’s an overpopulation issue with Arabians just like there is with Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, and everything else. It’s pretty sad when we are pulling a daughter of a U.S. and Canadian National Champion Stallion out of the kill pen at Enumclaw after she auctions for $60, as we did last month. Nothing wrong with her – just young, untrained, and not exactly the national champion’s shining moment when it comes to conformation. She’ll make a lovely little junior mount for someone though and she certainly didn’t deserve the fate she narrowly missed.
What I want to know is when is one of these registries going to come up with an actual solution? Here are some ideas, if you guys are having trouble with it:
- Limit registrations of a stallion’s foals to five per year until the stallion earns ten points or the equivalent level of achievement in endurance, NCHA, etc.  Boy would this help us stop making so much crap. Sure, some people will still breed anyway even if they’re going to be grades but it’ll discourage a lot of them if they can’t register them. And that would certain tie in with the part about the welfare of the breed. If you want Arabians to be high quality, start having some damn standards. (This goes for every breed)
- Offer free or vastly reduced registration for geldings. BOY will you see a LOT more colts gelded if you do that. (again, AQHA, Jockey Club, etc. listen up!)
- Stop incentivizing overbreeding by doing silly shit like having a list of the mares and stallions that have produced the most registered offspring on your main web site. Stop patting these people on the back. It’s not a good thing. Personally, I think it’s pretty disgusting that someone made a mare pop out 22 foals. At least Michele Duggar is doing it by choice!
- Numerous people have brought up the idea of a limited registration option, which the breeder can choose for animals that are not breeding quality. This allows you to show and compete, but not register the offspring. I would recommend a limited registration that can be upgraded to full registration when a certain level of accomplishment is reached. After all, the breeder could be wrong and a lot of fugly foals grow up surprisingly nice. See how things like this would promote showing? Then you can make your $$ on showing instead of on registration fees. The #1 thing ANY registry can do to help things out is stop trying to live off of registration fees. That leads you all to promote overbreeding, because you need the money. Far better for your income to come from showing and using the horses, which increases the horses’ value so that they’re worth more for riding than for meat.Â
- If the racetracks can ban trainers and owners that they catch selling to slaughter, when are you registries going to develop some cojones and do the same? I bet people whip out the checkbook for euthanasia or get off their dead butts and do some retraining and find a new home for whatever isn’t working out for them a lot faster if dumping them to Mr. Kill Buyer can result in a lifetime suspension from showing. Stop giving lip service to the welfare of the horses you are promoting and actually enforce humane and responsible behavior among your trainers, breeders and owners via penalties that will actually scare them into compliance. Â
It comes down to what it always comes down to. Slaughter is the cheap, easy way out for people who do stupid crap like breed horses they don’t handle and train, or cripple them up overriding them when young, or fry their brains with cruel training. As long as that cheap, easy way out exists, there are no consequences for poor horse care or treating your show prospects like they are disposable. Every time I see someone arguing that we should re-open the slaughterhouses, I know it is someone who has used them in the past to hide the evidence of their crappy horse care, thoughtless breeding or failed training. Enough already.
Â
85 comments to “People for the Eating of Tasty Arabians?”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
I know this is rather redundant, but if the AQHA doesn’t have the brass ones to stop registering horses with obvious and very serious genetic disorders (ie HERDA and HYPP) that are breed specific, why would you expect them to take a stand on the somewhat more qubiquitous issue of slaughter?
Also on this topic, does any one else find it morally repugnant that the Glovers are offering a breeding bonus incentive for Invest N Vital Signs? I guess I don’t have a problem with them showing him, but the hype that they are placing on continuing that N/H line is really sad (so much for eliminating or controlling it).
Their attitude is awful. Supporting the reopening of slaughter houses is just an out to distract from the real problem.
Perhaps they believe that other breeds should be slaughtered, leaving the world to Arabians.
I agree with you that registries need to have standards that compel good treatment of horses, but I would also say that, until the overpopulation problem is solved, it’s better to have slaughterhouses in the US, so that we have control, as voters, over the regulations imposed upon those slaughterhouses. Plus, it would make transport more humane if horses didn’t have to be shipped excessively long distances to either border. I am NOT a supporter of slaughter, but until the industry is diminished, it seems better to have some level of control over how the horses are treated in the last few day of their lives.
I agree 100% with your suggestions, but the problem is that those solutions reduce the income for the organization. They want cash in the door, just like any corporation does (and don’t kid yourself thinking these “organizations” aren’t first and foremost businesses). The more foals they register, the more money they get, plain and simple, so of COURSE they are going to support a quick way to dispose of them. They get the money for the breeding reports and registrations, and the horses are thrown away, leaving the floodgates open for breeding report fees and registrations. Why support the closing of slaughter houses when your income is based on creating and getting rid of as many animals as possible?
Product in, cash in, product out, create more product. Then the cycle starts again. While I love your suggestions, we really have to pitch and support suggestions that don’t disrupt these business cash cycles in order to make the suggestions appealing to the ruling parties. The cold hard truth is they don’t care about the horses. They care about money. How can we benefit the horses AND make money?
Great post! From out side of the horse world we are so tired of seeing so many Dumbbloods being cranked out by owners looking for quick buck. We see so many with questionable conformation, awful personality traits and questionable manors from not being handled properly as foals…
OT – has everyone hear the rumor that Vital Signs are Good sold at the Congress for $1.2 million?
I am just shaking my head. It’s all I can do these days.
I couldn’t find your e-mail but I found some fugly Kolored stallions for next time you need to vomit.
http://www.familycompanions.net/walkinghorses.html#stallions
This is a very intriguing topic, one that I wish was discussed in more equine blogs, sites, forums, and magazines. Speaking of which, are there any magazines that have openly debated the issue of slaughter?
It seems to me that as long as money is a prime objective, morale will be questionable. I do agree that changing the way these associations bring in money would be a productive start. Shows are a great way. Perhaps these associations could set up their own rescues and somehow try to turn a profit by training/retraining the horses (I know this may not always equal profit, but if the training is quality…). I don’t have time right now to thoroughly think that one through, nor do I know if that option exists today, but just a thought.
I also think that there should be either some regulation for breeders or punishment. Politically, I am not a fan of regulation, but I think passing along some sort of responsibility to the breeders would open their eyes and make them think long-term as opposed to just short-term. Since they are so determined to produce as many heads as possible, perhaps they should be held accountable for each head they produce. (To some extent; perhaps breeders take back or euthanize slaughter-bounds?) Perhaps any colt they don’t deem to be stallion quality they should be responsible for gelding before selling? This might in turn keep crap stallions from getting into BYB hands.
I say stop registering horses PERIOD. Registries are started to make money, the welfare of the horse is secondary if that. There are just as many papered POS horses as there are nice grade ones. Just because some breeder says it has to have papers to be a worth anything, it’s BS.
My grade mare is way better conformationally and mentally than my papered mare. I sold a grade baby out of her for $3500 as a weanling. Papers don’t mean squat if the horse is nice, and they sure don’t save a bad one from ending up at the auction.
Grade mare is in foal again for next year. Sire is papered 10 ways to Sunday. They had no problem breeding my mare when I have a check in my hand. Now the baby is eligible for AWR, etc. Sure, if I give them $200. LOL
Here’s the kicker: Grade mare was in a feedlot, tossed out because she’d been attacked by a coyote. She’s got some scars and a little bit of a leg issue, but it doesn’t bother her at all. We got her some therapy and broke her like she was born with a saddle. Rideable, willing, great mind, very sweet, intelligent, pretty, doesn’t spook, etc. One of those horses people are always saying, “what a great horse, how much you want for her,” everywhere she goes. I could go on and on. Oh, but no papers. No one cares. My papered mare I bet I couldn’t GIVE away.
Granted, I’m one person with one mare, and this is probably my last baby out of any of them. Go get the dumb-blood breeders that keep churning out crap with a stamp on it. I dunno how you can talk sense into any of them. They’re as bad as the ones that throw a stallion out with 60 mares and dump next year’s babies at the auction cause they just realized they don’t have enough hay for winter. Oy vey.
RoseValley – Well that’s why I say, they need to look at ways to make their money off showing, events, etc. instead of registrations. I know they need to make money. I’d want to get paid if I worked for AQHA or AHA.
FC – I am a fan of the old saying “my freedom to swing my fist ends where your face begins.” How many of us are cleaning up someone else’s mess in the horse business? I know I am not alone in having footed the bill to retire out and eventually euth someone else’s old breeding stock. How many people here have picked up some barely halter broke idiot beast at the auction and put their own hard work into creating a marketable horse out of it, usually losing money in the process? I feel like those of us who love horses are constantly cleaning up the mess out of our own paychecks and with our own labor, while the creators of the mess go merrily on their way. Sorry, it’s time they started kicking in on the costs. They need to see retirement/retraining/euth as part of the cost of doing business and if they will not voluntarily accept the responsibility, it needs to be forced upon them. If you don’t like that, open a factory and make cars or TV sets or microwaves, because no one will care if you crush THOSE into a cube when they don’t sell or don’t work out the way you planned. Animal businesses have to have different rules.
The #1 problem I would have with dispensing with registration would be that you’ve just lost ANY control over being able to avoid genetic defects.
The #2 problem is that if you can’t take pedigrees into consideration, breeding will become far less predictable than it is now. Pedigree analysis is a true science and if you really know what you’re doing, breeding becomes far less of a crap shoot than most people believe it to be.
I could go on but getting rid of the registries is no solution.
>>> “Stop incentivizing overbreeding by doing silly shit like having a list of the mares and stallions that have produced the most registered offspring on your main web site. Stop patting these people on the back. It’s not a good thing. Personally, I think it’s pretty disgusting that someone made a mare pop out 22 foals.” <<<
Well, the only problem with the above statement is the age of those mares featured as having produced the most foals. The youngest was foaled in 1983, they go back into the early part of the 20th century. Those mares aren't being bred these days, and most breeders are popping out nowhere near that number of foals per mare.
That said, you have some great suggestions Cathy. Many of us who are AHA members and who have been involved in AHA for any length of time have barraged AHA with questions and pleas to change their absurd vote in May. It's not doing any good at all…
Convention in Reno next month will be verrry interrresting.
BWPBaby: From everything that I have heard, slaughterhouses in the US weren’t really held to any higher standards than the out-of-country ones. Many people who are anti-slaughter think it would be a good option IF it could be done humanely, but all evidence is to the contrary. Having to ship horses out of the country means less profit, less monetary motivation, and (hopefully) less horses going to slaughter. When it comes down to $50 from the KB plus however much of your time, vs pocket change for a bullet, more horses will find a quick end at home.
Overbreeding is such a problem in pretty much all breeds and/or grade horses. I currently own a filly who falls into the “let’s breed the mare so we can have a cute baby to play with” category. I didn’t breed her, former neighbors did and then failed to teach her much of anything pertinent to being a successful riding horse. She still has moments of naughtiness, but for the most part is beyond the charging people and biting crap she came to me with. Lots of people would have sent her to Mexico months ago, but I think she’s going to make someone a nice little cowpony with some more training. Unfortunately she can’t be registered due to an ugly divorce f-ing up the paperwork. But I did trace her back to a quite successful halter, western performance broodmare and nice APHA roping sire. Hopefully it helps as a selling point that her pedigree is known, even though she’s a grade filly. Anyone have any experience with selling under those circumstances?
For your dining pleasure: 2004 Magnum Psyche son for sale for $200 in Minnesota. Sire: Magnum Psyche, Dam: Merri Madre – or purchase for riding and show horse by Saturday.
This boy was was rescued to keep him from going through the sale barn and to a dinner table by a former owner who now threatens to send him to same sale barn on Saturday because she can’t find a good home for him. Someone! Make a call, be nice as you can, get your trailer and pick up this guy! He was bred to be a star, and instead has been let down his whole life. He’s on You Tube as well. Type in: Magnum N Madre. Very cute bay boy, and not small either. Nominated for Fall Futurity.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/grd/1440505873.html
I don’t know if anyone will agree with me on this, but i’m going to say it anyway.
Have you ever tried to talk about this subject with a non-horsey person? I have and 99% of them pose this question, “How is slaughtering a cow different from slaughtering a horse?”
Well, horses are companionship animals bred for working. Cows are bred for food and always have been. A horse relies on it’s owner for companionship and leadership and suvival. I’ve never met a cow who cared for people one bit.
Way far back in history, there was no difference. But nowadays, it has been engrained in the mind of the horse (most of them) for centuries that people can be/are the herd. Cows have never experienced this. In America, (most) people would never even consider slaughtering a dog for food. Dogs and horses are not the same, but they share one trait; bred for companionship and work. I think that if we can bring this topic into the light for non-horsey people, and get them to understand that there is a differnce, we can make an even bigger impact. But it’s difficult, because most people don’t see the difference.
On the other hand, American horses are still being slaughtered. They’re just being shipped out of the country for it now, and are faced with (usually) even worse conditions. The answer does not lie in reopening slaughter houses here. The answer, I think, lies with everything that Fugly epitomizes: repsonsible ownership and breeding. Registries play a huge part in this. They need to realize how big of role models they really are. Yes, slaughter is a sort of “fix” for the overpopulation issue. But, it’s like putting a band-aid and a broken leg. It might help with the simptom, but ultimetly, it doesn’t even approach fixing the problem.
Horses should have to be approved for breeding. If they aren’t approved and they breed anyways, then the foal shouldn’t be able to be registered and also should not be allowed to breed. There sould most definitely be yearly limits on foals that can be intentionally produced. And if a foal is produced past the limit number, it should be not allowed for registry depending on circumstances. What I mean by “depending on the circumstances” is that if someone “accidently” produces a foal who ends up like Rugged Lark; an amazing horse and wonderful example and improvement of the breed, then consideration should be taken to allow for registry. Showing should be promoted more and at different levels.
I certainly don’t think that getting rid of registries is the answer. If you do that, then the whole breed will fail. There will be no way of know for sure exactly what you are riding, or tracing liniage and being possitively accurate. Some people don’t care about breed, or what they are riding, and certainly don’t care about registration. But i do. I’m completely in love with foundation quarter horses. I’ll probably own FQHA and AQHA horses for the rest of my life. Why? Because i see great sucess from certain bloodlines. I compete in barrel racing, reining, and soon I’ll be at a FQHA show doing turnback for the cutters. Breeding matters. Being able to trace a horse’s background is what allows you to check for inbreeding, diseases, conformational characteristics, bloodline success, everything. Without registries we wouldn’t be able to really trust a horse’s pedigree because the owners could put whatever they want on it. People have tried the honor system before, and often does it fail when money is involved?
To make a long story short, we need to regulate breeding. Period.
well said Fugly.
When I was younger, I always impressed by those lists in the AHW magazine of the stallions with the most offspring. 300, 250, etc. Stupidly, I just assumed all of them were top quality and out being shown, used, and loved by their owners. Now that I am older and wiser, I wonder how many of those offspring actually ever made it into the show ring. When I look through the old magazines and see all the stallions that were so heavily promoted, then never heard from again, I wonder, where did they all go?
OMG. Where to start….
First, I am a life member of the AHA, and I ripped them a new one over the slaughter issue. To do this without a poll of the members was very stupid. This is as sensitive an issue as abortion, IMHO. I know that I prefer the idea of euthing a horse, rather than sending it to slaughter.
Second, almost every Registry/Breed organization has the STUPID STUPID STUPID notion that the more foals they register, the better. If 5,000 a year are good, why not try for 10,000? Well, you idiot, you need an education on the economic realities of life, so here goes:
There are W number of people in the USA. Of that group, only X number of people have the disposable income to afford a horse. AND X JUST GOT A LOT SMALLER. Of that group of X, only Y number of people will want a horse rather than a ski boat or vacations to Cancun on a regular basis, or whatever it is people do with money when they don’t have horses. And of that group of Y, only number of people will want a horse of * Insert Breed of Choice *, then go back and read this whole paragraph several move times, until it sinks in.
MORE IS NOT BETTER. BETTER IS BETTER. So stop producing horses with KNOWN health problems. Period, full stop, do not do it any more. Stop producing horses who do not have a use above and beyond ‘feed and lead’, so that they will have a purpose even when they are older. Stop producing horses is you have ANY PROBLEM selling them for a profit. Hello? Is anyone out there listening?
I agree with the ideas presented – with one small difference. It’s a fact that registries need the income from registrations. Whatever their fees are now – (haven’t had to register a baby in years) they should have a graded scale for gender just like they do for timeliness. Geldings should be registered for the lowest price: incentive to geld early. Mares should be next and cost a little more. Stallions should cost at least 20x what it costs to register a mare. If registering a weanling filly is $30, then a weanling stallion should be $600. It would go up proportionally with age (as most registries do). HOWEVER, when proof of gelding is submitted, they would receive a refund of the difference between stallion and gelding registration costs at that age. This would cut *way* down on everybody and their dog keeping Ol’Bess’ last colt to stud out. In fact, it would help eliminate most mediocre stallions, because they would be worth more gelded, if for no other reason than to get that rebate. Meanwhile, the registry gets use of the money (interest).
“- Stop incentivizing overbreeding by doing silly shit like having a list of the mares and stallions that have produced the most registered offspring on your main web site. Stop patting these people on the back. It’s not a good thing. Personally, I think it’s pretty disgusting that someone made a mare pop out 22 foals. At least Michele Duggar is doing it by choice!”
————————–
So, I wasn’t talking out my ass the other day! There is a list of foals by various stallions and I was correct in saying, that I thought I saw it on AHA web-site. I am not a member of the AHA anymore and don’t want to be so, I wouldn’t have found my proof. I still won’t say what stallion or my source regarding the foals being taken to slaughter. I just don’t feel it is justified because, they were not the ones doing the deed. Plus, I wasn’t given the name of the person that was actually taking them to slaughter, I would only be assuming.
Thank you for bringing this post back!
Registries need to make money. They do NOT need to make it from registration fees.
They can make it from taking cuts of show entry fees, for fees to enroll horses in various award programs and incentive funds, etc. They can put on clinics with the top trainers of their breed and profit from that. They can charge for genetic testing. They can charge for memberships and they can charge for access to online databases of horse information. These are just some ideas.
Great stuff, Fugs, seriously. These are great ideas that could really help. Now, in the immortal words of Samuel L. Jackson: “Well, allow me to retort!”
You said: “Limit registrations of a stallion’s foals to five per year until the stallion earns ten points or the equivalent level of achievement in endurance, NCHA, etc. Boy would this help us stop making so much crap. Sure, some people will still breed anyway even if they’re going to be grades but it’ll discourage a lot of them if they can’t register them.”
Okay, I can see this for any breeding farm that is focusing on purity of breed. But overall, this will not work for the majority of breeder, BYBs or otherwise. People will continue to breed for crosses no matter what, especialy since crosses are popular. For example, in the Arab world, what will stop these people from breeding for Quarabs, Morabs, National Show Horses, Anglo-Arabs, and other various accepted cross breeds? Heck, I know people who kept a TWH stallion and tons of Arab mares because they were trying to start a new cross breed: Air Walkers. No, I’m not making that up. Plus, the majority of stud owners I know don’t care about what they breed to–they just want their stud fees. So any grade mare brought to their barn is a potential money maker. There are about 200 foals out here in AZ by a horse named Here’s Lookin At Ya Kid, and most of them are unregistered and pure garbage. The owner just didn’t care–all he wanted were those stud fees.
I truly believe that our major problem with our horse registries and associations is that people are allowed to run willy-nilly with their stallions and mares, breeding to any of the opposite sex and same breed that they want. As long as the resulting foal passes the DNA and/or blood test, then it is registerable. I think that what we should petition for is better breeding standards overall. Start having inspections for mares and stallions to qualify to be breeding material for the registry. My example is the Friesian industry. There are not a lot of registered full-bred Friesians because the standards for breeding is so high. We don’t see a lot of Friesians at auctions or the slaughterhouses because no one wants to give up something they’ve spent so much money on in the first place. I’m sure some slip through the cracks, but I bet it’s extremely rare. Plus, the low amount of registered full-bred Friesians actually makes them more desirable, and therefore they are more expensive. It’s a result of breeding for quality, not quantity. Sure, there are Friesian crosses out there by Friesian stallions and mares that didn’t make the grade and are not breeding quality by the Friesian industry standards. But honestly, it is still a proven system that keeps the amount of Friesians down and therefore out of the kill pens and (mostly) the hands of uneducated owners.
Honestly, I would LOVE to see TWHs start being inspected for registry. We are losing our breeds’ natural movement under saddle to the BL horse desires–we have to WORK to bring out that true flat walk when we shouldn’t have to do more than refine it under saddle. We need to start seeing the horses going naturally to qualify them for breeding so they live up to the TWHBEA description for how the TWH should move. Since the smooth gait is the primary reason why people want to buy a TWH, why not require the horses to naturally possess the gaits they were originally bred for?
Now to piss everyone off with my slaughterhouse vs. euthanasia views…
“I bet people whip out the checkbook for euthanasia or get off their dead butts and do some retraining and find a new home for whatever isn’t working out for them a lot faster if dumping them to Mr. Kill Buyer can result in a lifetime suspension from showing.”
No, they won’t. It’s a waste of time and money to them. You’re forgetting about the money factor: most people on the upper ends of the horse business don’t care about the welfare of the horses. They are machines that should perform as necessary, and if they don’t then they are disposable. These animals are overbred in the hopes of finding that one rare Secretariat or Phar Lap or Teddy O’Connell or Native Dancer or Midnight Sun. I have witnessed this first hand with TWHs. The BL trainers stack ‘em, sore ‘em and jump on their backs at 14-18 months. If the horse does not perform as he’s ridden up and down the barn aisle, then he is culled and sent to auction as “trail horse potential.” It’s the reason why we own my husband’s gelding. They’re not going to waste time and money on a horse that is only going to garner them $2500 in a few years after it’s trained when they can get around $1000 for him at the auction now. And why euthanize him when that costs money? It costs us $400 a pop to euthanize a horse, and then at least another $200 to have someone come take the body (we can’t legally bury animals on our properties out here in AZ, and most of us don’t have the room for it anyway). Why spend $800 when you can make $1000? Or for that matter, if the horse went to slaughter, why spend $800 when you can make $500? What I would imagine would happen is more horses getting a bullet through the brain and a backhoe burying them. Better than the slaughterhouse, of course, but economically sound for the trainer and owner.
“Every time I see someone arguing that we should re-open the slaughterhouses, I know it is someone who has used them in the past to hide the evidence of their crappy horse care, thoughtless breeding or failed training. Enough already.”
I cannot disagree with you more on this. I have several friends who are horse owners and police officers here in AZ, and of course they would never send their own horses to slaughter. Most of you living in other areas of the country don’t understand how it works here in AZ. Since my friends are horse owners, they get a lot of the loose horse calls. They are seeing more and more horses being turned out into the desert to “go live with the wild herds” (insert loud guffaw here) that end up starving to death since slaughterhouses are gone. They are also seeing more and more horses being abandoned at auctions–people take them there, register them for the auction, then go home. If they don’t sell, they don’t respond to calls to come pick them up. They said they wish slaughterhouses were still open–at least people would have an option to take an unwanted horse somewhere. Plus, it costs money to euthanize a horse; hell, it even costs money to put a bullet in its head, for you gotta rent a backhoe to dig a hole to bury it in. In AZ most people don’t own much more than 2 1/2 acres that we have our horses and house on, and most of us do not own our own digging equipment because we don’t have anywhere to put it. AND our land is rock solid out here–it’s not soft desert sand like in Lawrence of Arabia. The cost and time it takes to dig a hole is overwhelming. We also really have nowhere to bury our horses because of the small amount of land as it would be too close to our septic tanks and water lines. Therefore, overall, our state does not function in an economical or practical situation right now where people can afford euthansia. The only other option is releasing it into the desert. So which is more cruel: sending a horse to a slaughterhouse or releasing it in the desert to starve to death? You pick.
I would never send my own horses to a slaughterhouse, but I don’t have a problem with people eating horsemeat and slaughterhouses being available. I do believe that travel conditions should be better for horses–no more using the cattle double deckers. But it is not fair to bitch about the conditions of horses in slaughterhouses and not also bitch about the conditions cows, pigs, chickens, and other food animals are put through. In fact, I know a lot of people who own cows, pigs, and chickens as pets, and they wouldn’t dream of eating them. If you’re going to complain about one, then you should complain about all of it. Horses are no more worthy of our respect than any other animal, be it lizard, bear, turkey, bat, whale, or tiger. I respect ALL animals equally and do not eat any of them. Just because horses are “pets” doesn’t make them exempt.
kates-aidan…
“I couldn’t find your e-mail but I found some fugly Kolored stallions for next time you need to vomit.
http://www.familycompanions.net/walkinghorses.html#stallions”
Speaking from experience and as a TWH owner, Spurs Cool Whip produces some very nice foals when bred to the right mare. He has a nice gait that he passes on to his foals. I would breed to him if I had a mare with not enough front end to balance her out. He actually is a nice stallion–not one of the tops in our breed, but has produced some nice foals that are winning at shows.
FC,
“This is a very intriguing topic, one that I wish was discussed in more equine blogs, sites, forums, and magazines. Speaking of which, are there any magazines that have openly debated the issue of slaughter?”
Actually yes, both Trail Rider and Horse Illustrated have articles covering both sides of the issue. I’d have to paw through my back issues to find the articles, though….
As an overseas (Aussie) reader, I feel like there is one big point related to slaughter that never seems to be looked at. I read comments all the time from people about the transport of horses to slaughter in double deck trucks. In Oz, horses can’t legally be transported in double deck trucks at all. This is something that no matter whether horses are slaughtered in the USA, Canada or America, you all have some say over (Via your legislation). This is something that really needs to be tackled. If horses could no longer be transported double deck, their transport costs would rise greatly, leading to the possibility of less horses going these long distances to slaughter and those who did, would at least be in a single deck truck.
Just wanted to bring up the truck thing….
No, I don’t support slaughter – at all, for any reason. There is never an excuse for it. No matter where you live, you can always find someone with a gun. Everyone who has ever cared for my horses knows very clearly what should happen if any of them need to be euthed. We haven’t always been in a situation where we could bury them at home (we are now thankfully), but I have only ever accepted euthanasia (I am totally fine with a gun, have seen needles and guns used and believe that they go quicker with the gun) at home.
I owe my horses. We all do! I am preaching to the converted here, I know!
Thanks for this blog Cathy – it is wonderful!
>>I bet people whip out the checkbook for euthanasia or get off their dead butts and do some retraining and find a new home for whatever isn’t working out for them a lot faster if dumping them to Mr. Kill Buyer can result in a lifetime suspension from showing.â€
No, they won’t. It’s a waste of time and money to them. You’re forgetting about the money factor: most people on the upper ends of the horse business don’t care about the welfare of the horses. They are machines that should perform as necessary, and if they don’t then they are disposable.< <
But that is my point. You can’t make money if you can’t show them to drive the value up. At least not significant money. So it would hit them in the pocketbook, the only place they HAVE feelings.
Kaley’s Mom, nope, you weren’t kidding. I looked and found that and thought, how stupid to feature the high numbers only…your top producing stallions and mares should be based upon number of points earned by the offspring, or race money earned or whatever. Who cares if they have 300 if they’re crap? Congratulate the people who are breeding good stuff.
BWPBaby-Here are the pictures that were published of the horses coming off the truck in Texas. You might rethink that “more humane” statement kinda quick.
Slaughter truck pictures
Sad that AHA has decided to take this stance. They’ve been making some bad decisions lately…
Opening the slaughterhouses is only ashort term fix. Overproduction, poor quality, and a difficult economy are the cause of the problem, not the lack of slaughter facilities. The current demand for horse meat is subject to the whims of foreign consumers and is only profitable because it’s cheap to process and transport. If any part of this business model changes, the market will dry up leaving irresponsible horse people with nowhere to dump their animals for their “salvage value”. Already the European Union is looking at requiring slaughter-bound horses to spend time, a month or more, in holding pens to ensure that substances toxic (bute, ivermectin, etc.) to humans are cleared from their systems. If this becomes a reality, the added expense of warehousing horses in a feedlot situation could be enough to shut everything down.
The horse industry has not learned that the economics of supply and demand apply to them. Fewer high quality horses equals higher prices and conversely, more poor quality horses equals lower prices. Slaughtering excess horses for their salvage value encourages the bad horsekeeping practices that brought us to this state without any pressure to change. If there were no slaughter option and animal cruelty/neglect laws were actually enforced with significant penalties including jail time, the problem would be resolved.
To the best of my knowledge, John Holland is the only individual who did a valid study on horse slaughter and cruelty. His conclusion was that slaughter actually encourages cruelty. The US Department of Agriculture’s own investigation documented hundreds of cruelty-related offenses associated with the transit of slaughter-bound horses. Sugarcreek Aucition in Ohio has been hit with hundreds of thousands in fines, and are appealing them. In my experience with racetracks, the trainers who made a practice of rehoming their horses took much better care of their animals than those for who planned to send them to slaughter. People who abuse and neglect animals are criminals, not victims of unfair anti-slaughter laws. They should be arrested, punished and forced into therapy before they start abusing the humans around them.
If the horse industry needs slaughter to survive, let’s stop pretending this is a horse welfare issue. It’s about greed, stupidity and a pathological aversion to taking responsibility.
I still want to know just exactly HOW AHA supports rescue (other than tolerating the existence of our Rescue/Rehoming Subcommittee). I’ve fought this battle long and hard, and will continue to fight it. Thanks, lady, for bringing it up again. It’s heartening to know that those of us fighting ‘city hall’ have support!
The Minnesota Arab Magnum Psyche son – any chance for a Friday rescue spot? By the way, it’s a Sweepstakes he is nominated for, not a Futurity. I don’t know the difference, just had TB trail horses.
Well, I looked at the slaughter truck pictures, and they are as bad as I expected them to be. Horrid.
I’ve had people say that euthanasia is bad because the horse might go to auction and be bought by someone who will love it and keep it forever.
Just got this on one of my mailing lists and hope that someone in or near SW Ohio may be able to help…
“Also, please spread the word that there are another 17 horses going to slaughter if they can’t find places for them:
Got a call from farrier Sean (Shawn?) Ratliff who has a client with 17 horses that are going to go to slaughter because the owner can’t afford to keep them. He’ll give them away free to anyone who wants one (includes Haflingers and Warmbloods). Sean’s phone is 513-295-2519.”
There’s no way I can take on a horse at this time. Maybe one of this blog’s loyal readers with room?
>> peanutpalomino says:
Have you ever tried to talk about this subject with a non-horsey person? I have and 99% of them pose this question, “How is slaughtering a cow different from slaughtering a horse?â€
Well, horses are companionship animals bred for working. Cows are bred for food and always have been. A horse relies on it’s owner for companionship and leadership and suvival. I’ve never met a cow who cared for people one bit. <<
While I agree that cows are raised for slaughter and horses are for companionship and working, I have to say one little thing about the last sentence.. I have two beef steers, one is now three and the other is two. Got them from a lady who loves her cows, but couldn't keep all of them. Both were never touched or handled, simply came when they heard the grain being poured. I got them and worked with them for several months, and now they are giant love bugs who moo when they see me, come loping up with they want attention, and they simply LOVE the spot between their shoulder blades to be scratched (and the two year old likes the inside of his ear to be scratched. He's a weird one). They are halterbroke, and the three year old was even in our local school play for two weeks. Both will live out their lives as pasture pets. Cows are actually very sweet and very smart animals, something I never thought possible until I actually owned some!
Ok, I'm done. Just had to share about my boys. =D
Great post Fugly.. I haven't liked the AHA since they wouldn't help us transfer our rescue arab's papers to our name. We didn't really fight it though, since we figured she was 23, and just a retired pasture potato.
katphoti says:
October 29, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Horses are no more worthy of our respect than any other animal, be it lizard, bear, turkey, bat, whale, or tiger. I respect ALL animals equally and do not eat any of them. Just because horses are “pets†doesn’t make them exempt.
Scientifically speaking, animals are NOT equal. Science has proven that some species are wired for deeper ranges of emotions and pain than others. Lobsters and fish? Don’t process pain at all the way we understand it. That’s why a lobster would keep on casually walking along the bottom of the sea if someone plucked off one of its legs–think about it–if someone plucked off one of your fingers, you would be immobile from the pain!
In the same way, a horse feels a much more deeper range of emotion than a cow or pig. Going to slaughter has a much harder emotional toll on it.
How do I know this?
I live in a town centered around a big slaughter plant, which used to slaughter horses twice a year. One man, who worked there for years, told me that in the shoots waiting to be slaughtered, the cattle remained fairly calm. Meanwhile, the horses would nervously poop all over themselves, rear, whinny, tremble … the moment they started killing the first horses in the line. The horses knew what the stupid cows did not. And if I recall properly, this man, who was not a big animal person, was hoping an anti slaughter bill would get passed for the horses. Said it was too darn sad to watch.
Lobsters and fish DO actually feel pain the same way anything else does. Being wild animals, they hide it better. I can tell when my aquarium fish are stressed or sick: their colors fade out (I had a dark brown catfish turn almost white instantly when I netted him), their fins clamp up, and they behave differently (lethargy or frantic movements, depending). Anything that’ll take a lobster’s leg off is bad enough that the lobster thinks he has to keep moving right along or he’s going to DIE. I think you could manage to keep moving without a finger if your life was in danger.
I’d like to see all registered horses of any breed be microchipped as a part of the registration process (and require a licensed vet to implant the chip, to make sure it actually happens), and for it to be law that any horse that passes through an auction has to be scanned for a chip. This would eliminate horses being stolen and sold at auction, and would keep breeders/owners accountable. And if someone wants to make sure nothing bad happens to their horse after it’s sold, they could request to be contacted (via the chip number) if the horse ends up in an auction. Then they could buy the horse if they wanted.
al2payne said “I’ve had people say that euthanasia is bad because the horse might go to auction and be bought by someone who will love it and keep it forever.”
Wow what was your reaction to that? Mine would be “or they could end up on a truck to the slaughter house, or owned by some moron who bought a horse because it was $50 at the auction.”
No thanks, I’ll put mine down before I allow anything like that to possibly happen to my old boy!
katphoti says:
October 29, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Start having inspections for mares and stallions to qualify to be breeding material for the registry.
=====
Bingo!
It’s been going on across the pond for centuries.
Mariska says:
October 29, 2009 at 3:38 pm
People who abuse and neglect animals are criminals, not victims of unfair anti-slaughter laws. They should be arrested, punished and forced into therapy before they start abusing the humans around them.
=====
IMO… Second offence and you’re on the double-decker. Not a big loss.
Arabian enthusiasts in AR, from the AR Dem Gazette classifieds, this may be worth a call. Their next stop is surely the auction barn…
10/28/2009 — ARABIAN MARES (3), reg.,
well bred, to good homes only! $200/each. 501-944-7844. [58758216]
colleen73-that was a very thought provoking comment, a very interesting angle to confront slaughter from. it is a realistic, usable plan, wish i had thought of it! i wonder if others could be swayed into fighting slaughter in this “round a bout” manner? a win on the transport issue would be a big win for horses. does anyone know about any pending legislation regarding transport that we could get behind? i would be happy to add my voice.
“whatever it is people do with money when they don’t have horses.”
I had to laugh at that
kates-aidan…
“I couldn’t find your e-mail but I found some fugly Kolored stallions for next time you need to vomit.
http://www.familycompanions.net/walkinghorses.html#stallionsâ€
Katphoti obviously knows more about these particular horses than I do, but even to my uneducated eyes that doesn’t look like FHOTD material. The horses are in good condition, and presented well in the pictures. I’m not a conformation expert and can’t vouch for what is or isn’t breeding quality, but they do at least look like pretty horses and not yaks. I don’t see much about training and nothing at all about show records, which isn’t great, and I wish they’d learn to use commas appropriately, but it’s not really fugly.
Although I had to giggle at the description of a two year old gelding: ‘He has been running free on 10 acres of California foot hills so he has developed his agility and coordination.’ That is the best spin on ‘not halter broke’ that I have ever heard!
Sweepstakes nomination is lifetime eligibility for monetary awards for show wins, endurance wins, etc. etc.
Don’t responsible horse owners feed their horses all sorts of medicines and supplements that have large warnings on them that basically state ‘Do not feed to food”? And if they don’t, doesn’t that mean their horses are wormy and scrawny?
Also, I know you can’t catch genetic defects, but wouldn’t some of them make it more likely for the horse to get something you could catch from eating it? For instance, HERDA- sloughing off patches of skin can’t be good for avoiding infections.
Eating fuglies doesn’t sound like a very attractive or safe option to deal with the overpopulation problem, even without the moral issues surrounding slaughter.
In my opinion, the closure of the American slaughter houses has created a larger problem. Many people have a distinct problem with the bolt gun technique; did anyone consider that Mexican slaughter houses destroy the horses by repeated stabs to the back of the head until the spinal cord is severed?
A quick jolt to the head and a minimal bleed out time caused by a severing of the carotid artery and jugular vein (less than 30 seconds on average) seems much more humane than being stabbed repeatedly in the back of the head.
OT, but take a look at this lovely craigslist ad: http://monterey.craigslist.org/grd/1420780626.html
Speaks for itself…
I keep meaning to post this link: http://www.equineonline.com/factbook.asp?section=16 . Please take the time to look at it and consider some of those figures. I get a little tired of hearing how vastly the Arabian horse people are overpopulating the world with Arabians when clearly registration of Arabians has declined since the zenith of the 80′s (30,004 in 1985) dropped more than a half since 1995(12,398) to 2008 (6,120). Obviously this is still a lot of horses being produced and of course there will be unregistered animals but the perception of Arab breeders pumping out ridiculous numbers of horses hasn’t exactly been the case in comparison to say, Quarter Horses. At no point have Arabians ever outstripped Quarter Horse production- never even close, frankly. In fact, you can add up all other registries together and not come close to what the AQHA registers each and every year- that includes Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds. I’m not including the half Arab figures because I’m not sure it is as representative of foals since various incentives to register older half-Arab geldings etc. occur frequently. Of course obviously there are a lot more registered and unregistered half-Arabs than purebred Paso Finos being registered but then there is a wider range of half-Arab demand and that is frequently riding horse oriented as opposed to say the newest born yearling for a purebred Arabian halter futurity.
Seriously look at those figures. I am frankly astonished to see that anyone can possibly imagine a need for 7,000 miniature horses every year. I’m not saying there needs to be 6,000 Arabians every year either (the Morgan, Saddlebred and Paso Fino figures seem closer to me to what might be in actual demand for pleasure fall out from the non-show ring destined types) but the kinds of numbers produced by AQHA is frankly stunning. Their support of slaughter makes perfect sense based on their halter horse confirmation and the fact that like the racing industry their breed is founded on the futurity concept which demands creating and destroying tens of thousands of animals in the attempt to win at two and three years old. Gee, let’s breed race horses, reiners and halter horse and show pleasure horses and use them up by the time they are four! We’ll sell the excess to slaughter like the cattle we breed and create more foals to replace them in the cycle!
It’s seriously nauseating. I despise the AHA’s stand on horse slaughter. It isn’t the organization’s business to take a stand on that issue on behalf of their membership. Whether individual members support it or not is up to them- that’s how it should be. I would prefer the organization to simply say that they won’t take a stand and leave it up to the individual member but point out that the intent of the association is to preserve and protect the Arabian breed and they would hope their horses aren’t being subjected to slaughter intentionally. Even knowing that of course plenty of Arabians are.
The slaughter stance does make me angry but then there are so many things about the Arabian “industry” that make me angry that it hardly seems worth ranting about that particular aspect . I don’t care if horse slaughter is a solution for some people- no horse breeding association should actually be coming out in favor of opening slaughter plants and supporting horse slaughter. This tells me they are really breeding for that market and that there is a problem there.
I’m more aggravated with Arabian registration numbers because since the circus of the 80′s too much money and effort has been invested in halter horses instead of sound, sane, useful athletes which would be treasured by the equine community as a whole instead of jeered at. There are still plenty of people breeding good Arabians but they tend to breed fewer animals because they do know their market is riding horses. Some of those mares that produced double digit numbers of foals were actually extremely good animals which contributed a lot to the breed. You have to look at more than just numbers in some of the cases of breeding. Okay, do we really need 300 offspring of a particular stallion based only on his looks? Is it okay if a stallion has 300 offspring 3/4 of which are performance winners?
The Thoroughbred mare Somethingroyal produced 19 foals- 4 stakes winners and 5 stakes placed. She foaled Triple Crown winner Secretariat at age 18. I suppose they could have stopped breeding her then since nothing was ever going to equal that. Of course they didn’t know that and two of her foals following Secretariat were stakes placed. So I have nothing against good horses having offspring as long as there is a home for them.
PeanutPalomino-
Sorry, don’t agree. And I don’t support factory-based slaughter for horses OR ANY animal. I believe it is cruel whether it be a horse, a cow, a turkey, whatever…And this is from somebody who has had (and loved) horses since about 2 years old, has raised many cows, turkeys, chickens, ducks, geese. And slaughtered a lot of them. And yes, cows can care for people. I’ve had ones that would “moo” at me from the neighboring dairy after I sold them just from picking up my scent when I walked by. And turkeys…We have some very friendly turkeys. One in particular will walk right into your arms and cuddle up with you. All she wants to do is sit in your lap. A lap turkey, go figure!
So, no, I don’t think your argument works for non-horsey people. (Heck, I consider myself a “horse person” and I don’t buy it). I have had very nice, highly educated, liberal-minded farm workers the last two years who ALL were broken up about the idea of butchering our turkeys for Thanksgiving but really couldn’t care less for my two horses and one pony that I would spend a ridiculous amount of time messing around with every day and they mostly just avoided in favor of hanging out with the turkeys/chickens/ducks. They just aren’t into horses and were not at all really interested in even considering the idea of being into horses (though I offer!). But they liked poultry. In the end, I think it is just wrong to prioritize slaughter as okay for one animal but not the other. And if YOU could never consider slaughtering a horse remember that’s because YOU have a passion and love and connection for horses. Many, many folks do not have that connection and will never do so and you just can’ t make them understand that. Folks are different, that’s the way it goes.
BUT…I do believe factory-based slaughter is cruel and inhumane and I think many, many people can buy into that concept whether they have a fondness for horses, for pigs, for chickens, or whatever…. And I agree wholeheartedly with what Fugly wrote here today regarding the breed registries and much of what she writes regarding BYBs. If horse lovers DON’T want horses in general having much value for slaughter (i.e. no value), then these are the things we should support. Yet…I don’t think the idea of slaughtering a horse for consumption, or whatever (yes, I know, all the wormers and what not issues…), is inherently evil if it is done in an humane, no stress matter (on your own farm or like the European knacker shops). I do think the current horse for meat market is inhumane not only because the slaughter house procedures are (were?) cruel and stressful to the animals, and the transport was hell, but also because of the oftentimes inhumane and neglectful circumstances that would lead up to a horse being taken for slaughter in the first place! Hey lets neglect them, beat them, starve them, etc., etc., etc… and then when we get bored with that sell them for $50 at auction and send them to slaughter. Woo-hoo! Wrong!
Anyways, just saying. I think the DON’T SLAUGHTER OUR POOR SWEET HORSES! argument just falls all apart when we horse people act like horses are somehow the chosen animals (oh yeah, and the doggies too! Cats, eck, whatever, too damn bad they don’t have a little more meat on their scrawny bones…LOL).
Let’s focus more on humane treatment in life, and death, for ALL animals whether we raise them primarily to be our friends, or with thoughts of eating them right from the get-go. And the horses, well the horses can come along for the ride!
Well, if the AKC has no problem expediting Puppy Mill registrations, what chances do we have with the big horse orgs?
I think you’re overestimating the financial impact of show fees vs registration fees. The AHC horse survey said less than 10% of owners of non-racehorses had ever shown in any type of event. Even if you quadrupled the entry fees at every breed sanctioned event around, and shunted all of that money straight to the registries, you wouldn’t reach the money they get from new applications. Plus, the vast majority of stallions have less than five foals per year. People who are already dicks will just sell the overbred foals without papers. I don’t know what can be done that will actually be too much work for the greedy and lazy without being too much effort for the decent and industrious too. There are only so many hoops I can afford or care to go through.
Those of us in the know need to create value in the farms and ranches that are doing it right. Get their names out there alongside the blue ribbon timebombs and quiverfull grades, online and in person.
I like the incentive for gelding, but it would have to be a refund situation with TB’s as we have to register by a certain date early in their lives. And while I do geld all mine because they are not stallion prospects, I do tend to wait until Feb of their yearling year. At which time my registration would be triple the costs.
And I’m not suggesting I breed crap, it’s just I know what it takes to be a stallion prospect and the odds aren’t in their favor. Also they get to spend their time out in fields which may be next to mares and fillies so therefore get to enjoy life.
But being as how we have to send the passport in to be changed once they are gelded, a little refund would certainly change more minds.
Terri
“I’ve had people say that euthanasia is bad because the horse might go to auction and be bought by someone who will love it and keep it forever.”
Good call, al2payne. I know others who have drank that same Kool-Aid. They think of it at least the horse has a chance. Honestly, in this economy, his chances are far better he’ll end up at the slaughterhouse. And why risk that owner having to do the same thing if times get tough for them?
fhotd,
Just FYI, I sent you an email concerning a recent horse reunion. Don’t know if you’d like to hear the whole story or not.
“But that is my point. You can’t make money if you can’t show them to drive the value up. At least not significant money. So it would hit them in the pocketbook, the only place they HAVE feelings.”
Believe me, I do agree with that. But I just don’t see big barns investing in it. Look at it this way: the horse will cost them in feed, vaccs, deworming, shoeing, and a trainer to train them to sell them. Yet we all know that in order to get a $10K show horse to cover all those expenses takes years to get to. Most riding horses sell for $5K or less in the regular market. So where is the economic value in those big barns keeping horses over time to retrain and resell? I think that if this worked, it would be happening already.
Don’t worry, my friend–it’s not that I don’t care. I think your ideas are absolutely solid and really could be put into practice. It’s time for us as owners to start standing up to breed assocations and start making them accountable for the horse tehy have chosen represent. I know I’m doing it with the TWH breed to end soring, and stopping the AHA and the AQHA from supporting slaughterhouses is another form of that. We have to let them know with our pocketbooks that we will not tolerate this crap!
And because that “might” is not a “will,” that should be reason enough not to wager your supposedly special horse’s life on it. I don’t have a ton of money but I’m determined to do the right thing for the horse I’m helping rehab.
And because that “might” is not a “will,” that should be reason enough not to wager your supposedly special horse’s life on it.
I have a problem with breed clubs trying to make their money off of showing. APHA is doing that and it is driving people away from the breed club shows because it is too expensive to show. With the politicizing of the show culture, you can have the best horse at the show and still come home empty-handed because Joe Blow didn’t walk or ride your horse through the gate, you don’t take lessons from Jane Judge, or frequent their fav restaurants before the show. Unfortunately we can’t govern ourselves as a horse-owning country enough to reduce the numbers of unwanted horses, so initially some not-so-desirable options may have to be put in place to gaurantee the humane reduction of unwanted animals. I would much rather see animals treated humanely prior to slaughter than neglected/abused/starved. I don’t like the slaughter option any more than anyone else but there simply aren’t enough homes or other options available. The economy took a bad situation and compounded it. This problem is also rampant with dogs, cats, and other household pets. If people can’t afford to feed and care for their guinea pigs, how can they feed a horse? If I had more property, I would rescue. The local mustang rescuer has had to close her rescue due to the economy and lack of funds. I don’t think there is an easy answer for the problem at this point. JMHO
Sort of OT, because he could not have made any kind of trip, bu last night I accepted for foster an 11 year old TB gelding who is tattooed (will try to read it this morning). He had a bcs of .5 assigned by our local veterinarian. What’s to be done with all these OTTB horses. I just found out that an organization called Tampa Trot has been formed to re-home the horses from Tampa Bay Downs. They need more individuals willing to step up. They need the publicity that the greyhound rescues receive. They have some wonderful ideas to help OTTB’s.
I dont know anything about breeding , dont want to know because I wont be doing it…but one common thing I see in almost all breeders is an unwillingness to accept that most untrained foals that they breed end up in bad homes with inexpierenced owners….inexpierenced owners usually burn out on their horse after 2 years or so and then the horse ends up in a worse home or Auction , and then on to slaughter. If breeders could commit at least 1 year to basic training for every horse they breed, and do it right …ground tieing , bath, clipping, trailoring, standing for the farrier etc, etc ,two things would happen.
1. the breeder would have less time to breed, because they are training what they have, they might breed less , and charge more , and horse would benefit. If you have 10 horses in foal , and knew you would have to train those foals, you might think about next year only breeding 5 and do more training , double the price. with the lack of thought and care going on in the breeding programs today there is no difference in buying one from a breeder , and picking one up at a Auction lot, except a signature on a piece of paper, and a bigger price tag. I have shetlands with and without papers, the one without is a lot nicer then the expensive one.
2. Training the horse would give the horse the fundimentals to excell in life, and possibley have a better home because of it.
Miniature horses are small , so it is very easy for these breeders to get carried away on breeding, after all they can use rovers dog house and pen for at least 2 more minis, and they are soooo cute. Every horse I have owned has been some sort of “clean up” from a thoughtless breeder, that was in over her head , breeding like rabbits.. It has made me very sour on breeders , and the fibs they tell to sell a horse. I was at a show where there were some horses without water …I asked my breeder if she had an extra bucket so I could water these horses… her reply was “not my horse , not my problem” the next year I packed 10 extra buckets , and everyone had water, found out later that the horse without water the year before was indeed her horse at one time…Yep..I pretty much hate breeders. Here in switzerland 2 things will happen in the next few years… you will be required to pay tax on every horse you own, every year. this will hopefully stop the backyard breeders . The other is a state regulation that all horses must have a certain amount of turnout space available on a daily basis… so if you have more horses then land…. your getting some horses taken away. I would like to see the state issue a licence to breed , and limit the number to x amount per year. How about unregistered stallions must be gelded ? How about a Stallion inspection , if you dont pass, the horse gets gelded. If the vet cant identify the type of horse it gets gelded.
The idea to pull registry money from show fees/clinics would be a good one if shows weren’t being hit equally as hard in this economy. The APHA Congress this year was nearly non-existant–members got emails stating they were waiving late fees for entries submitted past the deadlines in an attempt to get more people to show. AQHA Congress had much lower numbers than expected. Fall APHA World and AQHA World are coming up, so time will tell whether those shows will reverse that trend, but overall it doesn’t look good. It’s hard to recommend that a registry concentrate on bringing money in via shows when there is a downturn there as well. Plus when an AQHA clinician is suspended (which I am absolutely in full support of–he should have gotten much worse in fact), it hurts their credibility in regards to hosting clinics and making money in that regard.
I hate to poo-poo other’s ideas without offering my own, but unfortunately this is not an easy dilemma. I think these ideas are on the right track, but we have to take off our exposed nerve hats and put on our business bonnets in order to appeal to those who don’t care about the horses as much as we do. I actually advocate registering MORE. If APHA wouldn’t have had a knee-jerk reaction to AQHA eliminating their white rule and jerked the rug out from under true crop-outs, they wouldn’t have began eliminating registration to horses who show paint markings but have two AQHA parents. If AQHA hadn’t disqualified excessive white horses from showing halter, they would have more people trying to DR their qualifying paints. The list goes on and on from what horses have been eliminated from registration simply because of politics and not because of genetics, pedigree, or conformation. If the registries worked better at registering the horses that DO exist then there wouldn’t have to be such a push to create more.
AQHA also has incentive fund which I learned from a reliable source has a LOT of money stashed away in it. Why not move that money around in a way to bring in more people into showing (allow previously non-nominated horses to be nominated at a reduced fee, but paid back out at a reduced fee) to actually make showing more of an incentive and thereby being able to utilize your idea regarding registries pulling more money from shows. APHA Breeder’s Trust could follow suit, depending on the amount of money in that account. I’m sure other registries have similar programs or could impliment them. APHA needs to make breeding stock horses more marketable by allowing them to show side-by-side with colored horses, even if the points do count the same or if they are placed seperately to appease the colored-breed purists.
There is SO much that could be done to make the current horses more marketable, more show-able, more register-able. I think those are the things we need to concentrate on getting passed, to generate more revenue for the registries so they can take their concentration off breeding and registering new foals every year…..
Georgiegirl1 his ad is gone. where on utube?? . this whole slaughter issue wraps up in one statement. follow the money trail..im surrounded by the amish. we used to think they were nice folks till we moved here. they run a stallion with their mares. young mares,old mares…when the babies become yearlings we get to watch the meatman come and pick them up. always before daybreak so noone sees. but we see….i hate these people. the other day that stallion was learing at my mares from across the road. the fencing they have up is (i am not making this up) bakery string on about a 6 inch stepin(used for dairy cows). i told my husband if he breaks thru and heads for my mares and puts a hoof on our property i will take him out. we have a hay field next to him. he has the same set up over there. we went to cut the hay…… there was nothing to cut and bale on the backside ,they ate it all. so we were short 4 tons of hay from that field.. next year solar electric is going up over there. people suck..
Honestly, I’d rather reopen the US houses and ban transport out of the country (to anywhere, but especially to Mexico, which cannot be trusted to even use a bolt gun and not stab the horse to death or send it to the Mexican rodeo to have its legs broken first.) I really can’t get past wasting that much byproduct and forcing people to pay for disposal to boot. Someone on another post pointed out how much of a money-loser a WINNING horse at the track can be if they aren’t winning big money. For racehorses, there are also fewer homes than there used to be. People that used to be the market (in the hunter/jumper circuit especially–eventers still seem to look to the tracks for new mounts) are now not wanting to deal with retraining hot, smart horses who’ve learned basically to go and stop.
As for the AQHA, can we first have them ban from registration all horses carrying HERDA and HYPP? There might be a rash of both slaughter sale and euthanasia (not that Impressive himself didn’t look more like a steer than a horse anyway) but it would eliminate two deadly diseases in one generation. AQHA doesn’t care if they keep breeding horses who are potentially going to die horrible deaths from illness. Why would they care if some fugly failures get shipped to Mexico, so long as they were registered first?
I say reopen US slaughterhouses, ban shipment of live horses out of the country for slaughter, and keep educating people on what they can get from a track horse. For the Arabs, until the show system is restructured so volume isn’t equated with quanitity, there isn’t going to be a way to cut breeding–I like the idea of limiting registerable foals from sires and dams until those horses accrue a certain number of points, but there has to be a profit incentive in that immediately–some way for the breeders to make money while they’re trying to get those points. It’s still a business. As for the AQHA, they need to just stop registering anything carrying HYPP or HERDA before they worry about anything else, especially HYPP. They’re passing on a disease that not only can kill the horse but puts the lives of riders and handlers in danger. Keep passing on the H gene and one day they’re going to get sued when a human gets killed at one of their shows by a HYPP case having an attack. AQHA’s gross negligence is beyond overbreeding and putting people and horses’ lives at risk.
>>AQHA also has incentive fund which I learned from a reliable source has a LOT of money stashed away in it. Why not move that money around in a way to bring in more people into showing (allow previously non-nominated horses to be nominated at a reduced fee, but paid back out at a reduced fee) to actually make showing more of an incentive and thereby being able to utilize your idea regarding registries pulling more money from shows. APHA Breeder’s Trust could follow suit, depending on the amount of money in that account.< <
This is a GREAT idea. I don’t know why owners should suffer because the breeder dropped the ball and did not nominate, especially when allowing nominations later would be a source of revenue!
Also, I do NOT believe breeders need to make money “in the meantime” before their stallions have points. Uh, make money in the meantime the same way I do – GET A JOB! Launching yourself into the breeding business before you have even accomplished putting ten points on your stallion is a good way to get in over your head in a hurry. Create the value before you create a bunch of the product that you can’t move! I always feel like we just need to run around smacking people in the head with a Marketing 101 book.
I signed the petition:
Slaughter of Arabians, whether humane or not, is contradicting the AHA mission and policy, making the pro-slaughter statement professionally incorrect. If I was not supporting the mission or policy at my organization, I would get fired. Likewise, if certain board members have no interest in supporting the mission driving their mission-based organization, the members in question should consider relinquishing their AHA privileges and their obligations to the Equine community.
my other comments about it:
whether or not the boards statement is ethical or not, the AHA is STILL an organization is driven by a mission and by-laws. It clearly states in the by-laws, mission and other places that the AHA has the breeds best interests at heart. Therefore, if certain committee members disagree, THEN GET A DIFFERENT JOB.
O.T
I was driving away from my doctors office, when i noticed a bunch of horses grazing on a round bale in a shoe sucking muddy field. Most of them looked OK, one i could just see the ribs as i drove by…
My husband and I are going to go back tonight to take a second look, and hopefully see if we can get a glimpse of the feet.
However, I am concerned i will not be able to see feet so can you guys offer some ideas on how to quickly determine if this is a horse in the process of being rehabilitated, OT or slowly declining? This is my first experience with this, i love looking at horses as we are driving somewhere and thankfully all others have looked fat and happy. I dont want to blow the whistle on this person only to find out they just rescued this animal from the Auction.
I live in VA and the weather has been cold, but hasn’t dropped below the mid 40′s, but i don’t think it is to far away. I would like to make sure this horse will be OK when the cold winds start blowing. Thanks for the help,
C
fugly, i beg you. please do something about these breeders. they have two incredibly unspectacular stallions, and this is their latest fuck up. they are saying that someone can have this filly and breed her. she has severly bowed legs. they are so bad that her hooves end up out PASSED her shoulders, sideways. theres no way her legs could take the stress of breeding or riding. please do something! Is there a rescue that I can call to take the filly? is there any vet that would euth her? i would be able to split the euth charges with someone.
http://www.horseclicks.com/horses/g3w4rp/
i already sent her this email, but i’m sure it will be met with hostility!
You realize that you are suggesting that someone breed this filly? Isn’t the point of selective breeding to breed out undesirable traits? Her legs are SEVERELY bowed. Severely. As in she probably won’t be able to carry her own weight when she turns three, so what part of breeding her and making her carry weight for 340 days is logical to you? Her legs could snap IN HALF. I can find 5 different walker foals with nice color at every auction for 25$ or less. PLEASE stop breeding until you can spell foal correctly, understand what breeding quality means, and you actually care what happens to your stock. No one wants to spend money or time on your mistakes.
Thanks,
Irene
please!
I haven’t been a member of AHA for years. My mare was green broke when I got her, but she had the basics down pat. It made first time ownership SO much more inviting. We had issues but nothing to be afraid about. Lessons helped us move on and the fact that she was a well bred Arab with a brain made it so much easier. I found I had to educate myself to a higher level BECAUSE of her intellegence.
I also know someone who got an OTTB but he knew the BASICS (not racing) and with his personality was extremely easy to transition to a different life. They owe it all to someone who cared enough to train the horse for a life, not just an event.
Great post and comments.
Cathy –
I put a comment on yesterday’s post for horsefever to get ahold of me about the Magnum gelding. I know the horse and don’t want him at a sale but, like I said yesterday, can’t strecth the budget $200 with buying our hay right now for winter. Horsefever said she may be interested and I could keep him here until she could get him or something along those lines. I am NOT the owner sending him to a sale…just trying to help him out. I live about 2 hours from him right now and could get him. If horsefever or someone is interested, I can help – just email me at abreun@live.com. Thanks!
For those who think slaughter is the solution to the unwanted horse problem, make sure you have a good backup plan for when the Chinese figure out how to cheaply mass produce fat yummy meat horses. If you don’t think it can happen go to your local Wall-Mart and take a look at the country of origin tags. If they took away our manufacturing jobs they can very easily take over the meat horse market as well.
This is gonna be long…
Aficat, yes, AKC registers “puppy mill” puppies. They also inspect the facilities, and if they do not meet AKC’s standards, they ban them, from 5 years to lifetime. The ones you see in the horror studies won’t pass. Dog registries have the same problem as horse registries; they serve the owners. A conviction for animal cruelty will do that, too. (But they have to know about it! Which is why I send them clippings from the papers.) AKC has cleaned up their act a lot in the past 20 years. That is, since UKC, which is much more strict, became serious competition. Maybe we can learn from that?
Someone advocated switching registry income from registrations to shows. But, remember how expensive it already is to ride in just one class in an AQHA show. Have we covered that before, or was it in Shame In the Horse Show Ring? Just the memberships, grounds fees and entry fees can take it up to around $400 – if I remember right, which is never a sure thing. Boost those fees much more, and nobody would show. They would switch to local or non-breed specific shows. (We’ve already got org’s for cutting, reining, trail riding, dressage, and all the other specialties that are under the USEF & FEI.) And if you’re going to compete where breed registrations are not required, why register? If I was looking for a cutting horse, I’d be happy to get an Arabian-Suffolk Punch cross, as long as both parents were titled in cutting.
Another reason registrations are down at the big breed registries is because of unsatisfied people who are starting their own. Wasn’t the Foundation QH one started because of AQHA letting in so many appendix horses? They wanted pure QHs, not those with the name but only a few of the genes. We may see that with Paints and Appys soon, if they don’t close their books. (My own Appy is 3/4 TB.) Perhaps someone will invent the Healthy Stock Horse Club, requiring both conformation and health inspections, along with DNA tests. Any color welcome.
If the registries want more money and better participation, then let them start inspecting. They can still register the fuglies, the affecteds, and the carriers, but on the non-breeding side. An additional inspection would be required before a horse could be declared breedable. That’s where registries could get more fees.
And, Colleen73, there is already federal law in place forbidding transporting horses in double-deckers. It’s been there since 2006. (I just looked it up.) The problem is with enforcement.
I have thought of a way to make slaughter humane. Instead of transporting live horses, the butcher could come to you, and kill your horse at your place, gut it and bleed it out in his truck, then haul it to the plant. (I wonder how many owners would opt for euthnasia *next* time!) One of the bennies of this would be that the killer could easily inspect the vet records for the “not for food animals” stuff. In fact, I’d be happy to do that with Freckles, when her time comes. I’d rather donate her meat to the local Big Cat sanctuary than have her hauled off to the dump.
One of the difference between rescuers and hoarders is that the hoarders think of death itself as evil. Us realists know that, for an animal, there is no pain or suffering after death, no matter what happens to the carcass afterwards. If the job is to end suffering, death is a kind option. Sad for us, kind for them.
That’s my 2 cents for the day.
Ruthie
This is my first time to your site. How refreshing to have someone say it how it is!
Hi, I just registered to find out if there’s any update on the Arkansas mares? I’m in Little Rock and I’ve tried to call but I have yet to receive an answer. Could someone please update me.
Don’t you just loooooove hypocrites? *sigh*
That Walker filly… I will happily pitch what few extra dollars I have towards getting her out and euthed, if that becomes the only viable option. I’ve never seen such extreme bowing on the legs, poor girl! She looks very sweet and nice otherwise, but wow… even I can tell she’s going to hindered, if not uncomfortable, for all her life.
OT, anyone going to be at Equine Affaire in MA?
I have an issue with this statement to some point -
“- Limit registrations of a stallion’s foals to five per year until the stallion earns ten points or the equivalent level of achievement in endurance, NCHA, etc. Boy would this help us stop making so much crap. Sure, some people will still breed anyway even if they’re going to be grades but it’ll discourage a lot of them if they can’t register them. And that would certain tie in with the part about the welfare of the breed. If you want Arabians to be high quality, start having some damn standards. (This goes for every breed)”
In the Appaloosa world the stallion Rock Star was never shown. He’s one of the leading sires for Medallion winners and has produced many World and National champions.
While I agree that on my farm I would prefer to have sire and dam that are proven, but I don’t agree that proven is by showing. There are many people out there who still want registered horses, but they don’t want to show, and they’re not looking for fuglies either.
Why would AHR even feel the need to have to come out with an “offical” statement on their views on slaughter? I don’t see how their views on any subject, either for or against, would have any bearing on anything. AHR thinks you should buy USA goods, AHR thinks you should eat your vegetables. Does what they say really matter? I suppose the lawmakers in DC would look at the views of a big registry as representing the views of the majority of their members and take their statement at face value. They should do what they can to help promote the Arabian. Not, support a quick way to dump your unwanted culls. How many colts get culled each year in hopes of finding that one “keeper”? They should be offering discount registrations for geldings, special awards for performance geldings, and for stallions who sire a high percentage of WINNERS, not just high numbers. I’d like to see more things for the average Arabian owner to work towards, such as their distance program that rewards trail miles. I am not a BN or am I Mr. Boggs, I can’t and won’t even try to compete with people like that, so give me something else I can do with my Arabian that is within my budget and fun.
Flashygrrl- I didn’t say that, to date, it has been more humane to do it in the US, I said that if we keep it local, we have the OPTION of taking more control. Though I suppose the actual slaughterhouses are only a fraction of the problem. We could flip a b**** about the METHOD of transport and still have the actual slaughter facilities located elsewhere. In an ideal world (sadly not likely), that would minimize the economic incentive due to the long shipping distances (as zebrasreams07 brought up), as well as the costs of shipping humanely.
Off topic, but does it seem like this woman is collecting inappropriate 4-H horses for her daughter?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/1443170400.html
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/1443205808.html
Try before you buy…
OMG..I just saw the add on Craigslist and was going to post it to you..WTF?! Who in the hell rides a 7mo old and throws a picture out there for all to comment on..Idiots..F’n idiots..that poor filly will probably have buckled legs by the time the year ends…idiots!
Breed registries shouldn’t make money from showing, or breed registering, you would end up with a very limited gene pool.
Slaughter houses just promote over breeding.
Byb’s need to stop breeding.
We all need to promote this website add permanent links to emails, websites etc .
Byb’s… if they are advertising on craigslist etc just simply send them a link to this site.
Sometimes a horse does need to be shot, (bad accidents not included ) u don’t need a backhoe , u need to put an add in your local paper beforehand for free dog food.
When shooting a horse locate where the spine meets the brain, use your fingers just back from the bridle path,
Then stand in front of horse the point u are aiming for is 1 and 1/2 inches above the mid point between the eyes but u need to angle the gun so the bullet goes though the brain and skull etc and hits the base of the brain where it attaches to the spinal column.
If u do this correctly the animal will drop without even blinking.
Use a good quality .22 .. not a cheap copy from china.
Regarding whether or not cattle or lobsters or whatever are “wired differently” than horses, supposedly making them more amenable to being slaughtered to satisfy human appetites: this argument presupposes that lack of “emotion” or “pain” are reasonable indicators of slaughter-worthiness. This makes no sense. Maybe a lobster can’t reward you with unconditional love, or whatever it is that people seem to think their pets feel toward their owners, but I guarantee you that even a lobster would opt out of being boiled alive if it could.
Neither a given species’ ability to “experience emotion” or “feel pain” in human terms, nor human sentimentalism toward a given species, is relevant to the larger issue, which is that meat culture, which depends on the butchery of sentient beings, is inherently oppressive in nature. The horse meat industry with its attendant barbarism is a case in point.
A clam is the same as a horse to an indifferent cosmos.
Most of the Arabian mares who were “celebrated producers” were from 1950-1980.
skipper marlow,
Horses and cows flick their mane/head or tail when a fly the size of your finger nail lands on it, whoever is saying that horses feel pain differently from us is a total idiot, i must of missed that post …
“is that meat culture, which depends on the butchery of sentient beings, is inherently oppressive in nature.”
lol so whats new in that statement ?
Animals depend on us, what matters is what we are prepared to do to make sure that they are killed humanly and live decent happy lives while living,and all of us need to do what we can, but i really dont think humans will ever stop eating meat , we are carniviors we have the teeth and the eyes on the front of our face etc. We ALL have inherently oppressive natures.
As for lobsters being cooked alive, they dont just sit there in boiling water, the lid of the pot must held on, as they will try to crawl out , i have only seen this done, we WOULD NEVER do this ourselves or eat one , and we are beef farmers !!! (i usually eat meat for EVERY meal.)
But i do believe with enough public support we could stop byb’s.
The crooked leg filly has been given to a pet home. Hopefully they will not breed her, or try to ride her. They are going to try to correct her legs. *shakes head*. Good thing that owner is totally shrugging off responsibility on other people
Thank you , prairie Farmer, for your post on Oct 29. I agree with you fully.