Let me introduce you all to an amazing invention!
Oct 21 2009
This wonderful contraption is called a MEASURING STICK.
It can be obtained for a whopping $25 on this site.
I would highly recommend that all of you planning to sell a horse in the near future purchase one, if you have not done so already. I have recently been stunned anew at the utter inability of horsepeople to accurately state their animals’ height. Clearly the eye adds four inches for most of you, and you therefore need a little help. It’s only $25 so order one today and become an honest horse seller! (P.S. The measuring tapes don’t work very well. You will not get an accurate read.)
Now, let’s talk about this. What’s your best story about a seller who either wildly underestimated or overestimated height? I received this one from a friend last night:
“Ok, so a gal I know found a horse online that she was interested in. He was a gelding, bred for barrels, started under saddle, “15 hands”, and young (3 yr old) Buyer is in Washington, Seller is in Oklahoma. So three full weeks of videos, e-mails and pictures later, the Buyer decides she has to have the horse, sends a check, arranges a hauler, and anxiously awaits the arrival of her new horse. (Bear in mind, she never actually saw him in person, nor did she know anyone who could go look at him in OK) So the haul shows up with a 10 horse goes-on-forever trailer, after dark, and has the horse at the very front of the trailer. So back he comes leading what looks like a horse (sort of) and instead of a heavy thump of hooves, we hear the pitter-patter of tiny feet. And down the ramp comes… A pony.Â
Â
My neighbor (the Buyer) said “What the FUCK is that? That’s not my horse.”Â
Â
Hauler says “Yep. Picked him up at blah blah place in CITY, Oklahoma. Let me get the paperwork.”
Â
Paperwork checks out. Pictures and markings match. Yep…she got shnookered. (Actually, the seller was a genius at taking flattering photos) The “horse” is skinny, wormy, mane all fucked up, he’s just a MESS and he’s tiny.
Â
Buyer says “Well maybe with some decent feed, he’ll grow. And if he doesn’t, I can always sell him.” Puts him in the barn, I say good night.
Â
Next day, she calls the seller and says “Something happened to this horse in the trailer during the ride over here.”Â
Â
Seller gasps appropriately and said “Really? Oh no! What happened?”
Â
Buyer says “He shrunk. He’s not 15 hands. He’s not even 14 hands. He’s only 13.2 hands”
Â
Seller says, “Oh! Well I trimmed his feet.”
Â
Buyer says “6 inches worth? Do you even know how to measure a horse?”
Â
Seller says indignantly, ‘Well, yes! 15 hands is what he’ll MATURE at.”
Â
The horse is now 6 yrs old and is 15 hands…after a workout and just before the farrier pulls his shoes to trim him.”
Sounds familiar! All right, let’s hear your stories.
155 comments to “Let me introduce you all to an amazing invention!”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
Thats similar to how AMHA Miniature Horses are measured too! If measured at the withers, many would NOT qualify as type A so I think someone back when the breed was up-and-coming decided “Hey lets measure just infront of the withers in the divit where the mane starts so he/she will passâ€. My Miniature measures at 33″ when measured by AMHA standards (yes he was measured by a AMHA certified judge), but if measured by regular height standards, he measures 35″. I had no idea until a breeder told me to have him re-measured at a show. I did and was just as baffled as you were. Go figure, but feel comfort that you are not alone in measuring your horse!!!!!
I wish the Mini people would get into the “real” world and measure AT THE WITHERS like everyone else! My Shetland/Mini measures at 37.5″ as a Mini but 39″ as a Shetland!! *rolleyes* And measuring a Mini correctly is critical- if your Mini is over 34″ (AMHA) or 38″(AMHR) you all of a sudden have an UNregistered horse! Fortunately I tend to measure our guys taller than what they do at the shows. They need to make a “Breeding stock” division for horses that go over. We had a mare (now deceased) that measured 34.5″. She NEVER threw a foal over 31″. But those foals were lost forever to the AMHA, since the dam went over. At least they could go AMHR…
Years ago back in Washington I used to work with and show Belgians for a wonderful elderly couple. The owner was about 5′ 7″ and his wife was barely 4″8″….a very small robust woman. They raised Belgians with a passion and their pride and joy stallion was 18.3 hands (yes he was measured accurately). I remember the owner chuckling over a picture he had above his mantal of his wife holding the great stud at a national show where he took Grand Champion halter stallion. People would ask, “How tall is that horse?” and he’d reply, without batting an eye, “Well now I’m not really sure, but that woman in the picture is 6 foot….” LOL! I do know, though, that these people would have NEVER advertized any of their horses falsely, he just loved to see the look of disbelief on their faces when he said that!
“I’m generally pretty good at eyeballing a horse, if it’s under 16.2 (my height). 15hh is right at my chin, which is a very good reference. ”
Um. You’re saying that your whole HEAD is only SIX INCHES TALL? Get out the tape measure again! I’m 16.1, and 15 hh is my EYE LEVEL.
I was disappointed that the STB mare I agreed to foster walked off the trailer at 15.1hh. They’d measured her 15 hands at the rescue at age 4 …by age 4.5 she had grown! Argh! I don’t want a tall horse. However, I flunked Horse Fostering 101, fell in love and kept her despite her height.
For the next two years I measured her compulsively and kept ordering her to STOP GROWING!!! Sigh. At 7 years old she finally topped out at 15.3–thankfully, she has orca withers so her back is actually only 15.1 hands off the ground. Vet says the only downside to her as an endurance prospect is her size: bigger is NOT better for a distance horse, and I assure you that *I* don’t get any taller or more agile after 75 miles!
CassiaDawn, the video you linked to reminds me of back in the 1970s. Does anyone remember the Moreno sisters, PeeWee and Poncho? One of them rode jumpers and her m.o. was to distance herself as much as possible from the horse over the fence. No interference that way. I have (somewhere in my archives ;o) a picture of her — a magazine cover, I believe — on an Appie that was, at the time, a jumping fool. She must have had shiny boot heels and smudges all over her butt from as many times as her heels hit, “getting out of his way.”
The pony in that video, BTW, deserves a medal. Never quit trying and never dumped her (soprano by the time he finished) rider, either ;o) At least I think the rider was male. Hard to tell.
“How did this person get into this show, and why did no one stop them when it was clear from the first jump that this person canNOT ride?! Just baffling!”
He got into the show by paying his entry fee. No one stops them, because it’s not a judged class — it’s a jumping class. Unless the rider or horse falls, or has three refusals, they get to keep going.
All that said, yes, he is TERRIBLE — but, believe it or not, there have been a number of riders at the international level who were almost that bad — in fact, a couple who actually launched themselves out of the saddle *on purpose* based on the theory that removing their weight entirely from the horse’s back allowed it to jump higher.
Jumper riders seldom have really good equitation, and often their riding is of the “functional” variety (stay on, get over the fence, and don’t waste time on course). This one is just an extreme example.
Had a potential adopter come out to look at horses,when I asked what she was looking for she replied “I want an arabian,just like my old horse that I had years ago.He was 18 hands tall.” Wow,I replied,I’ve never seen an Arabian that tall,did you measure him? “Yes”,she replied,”But he was really hard to measure ’cause he kept moving his head.” Yes,that’s right,she was measuring the horse AT THE POLL!!!!!! I damn near croaked trying not to laugh.I suggested lessons at a good ‘beginner’ barn.
HEE! Generally I ignore the infolinks, as I understand the difference between those and the links Fugs actually adds — but it turns out that one of today’s random links has the solution for people who want taller horses! It seems that Shopzilla offers bargain prices on …. INCHES! Wow! Buy me some inches to make my 14.2 horse stick at 16 hands!
(Perhaps these inches come from miniatures that are an unfortunate few inches over the acceptable standard?)
I just saw that jumping video CassiaDawn posted ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMiCyoRzYM incase you can’t find her post, I get easily lost in these comments)
What. The… Eff.
I mean. I commented on it. Just.. Wow. See.. he hired someone.. to train/teach/instruct him to jump. I want to strangle his Riding Instructor. How.. in God’s Holy Name.. can you look at THAT.. and go.. Yeah. I did a good job!
. That horse right there though.. is a saint and a HELL of a good jumper. Imagine you’re running hurdles.. and aw you lift your foot up to begin your jump, some little jackass runs at you from behind and shoves you. That horse reminds me a bit of Black Beauty in that it seems to have to “Do right to humans and they’ll do right by you” mindset. It’s a shame that he got taken advantage of though. Happens a lot.
Erm, anyhow, i digress.
I always love the “My horse is 14.6 hh” ads. Either the horse is 15.2 hh and they want it to appear shorter (kinda like how you say Fifteen Hundred instead of One Thousand Five Hundred. They are both the same amount, but Fifteen Hundred sounds like a lot less money) or they’re complete dumbasses.
And fhotd, L.M.A.O. at that Peeing Child Safe Mare. Just.. LMAO. How flattering. Can you imagine your daughter finding that ad and going “Mommy! I want this one!!
” Good God, crop the ass out of the picture if you’re going to use it!
(ends random ranting session!)
Here in New Zealand we have Kaimanawa ponies – a feral breed that run in the Kaimanawa Ranges, on Army land. Because they’re surrounded by farms on one side, and the main State Highway and then a major National Park on the other, their numbers are managed via a muster whenever it is deemed necessary (usually every year) to prevent a population explosion and starvation. The mustered feral, totally untouched ponies are available to (hopefully) vetted homes, and those not sold are sent to slaughter.
To buy one, you can’t go and see them and pick the one you want – before the muster you send in a form on which you choose from some basics (under or over 14hh; mare or stallion; foal, yearling, 2 – 5 or 5+) and can add a note if something else is really important to you, and they match you up as best as possible out of what comes in off the range, and truck it to you immediately after the muster.
But what you get is what you get, whether you like it or not. If it turns out to be nothing like what you asked for, well, too bad. Everyone pays the same amount per horse regardless of age, sex etc, so for your $$$ you can get anything from a really nice type in good condition, to a stunted scrawny nag that looks like it would have been better off going to slaughter.
Back in 2007 I opted to get two mares, since I had plenty of room, some experience with ‘wild’ horses, and at the time only 35 out of 150 mustered horses had been pre-spoken for (luckily almost all of them were rehomed in the end). I asked for: Over 14 hh, mare, over 4 years, and not, Not, NOT under any circumstances, chestnut. So, what turned up on the truck? Two under 13hh 2 year olds, and yes, one was chestnut. Fugly and scrawny, and pregnant to boot, although I did expect all that at least. I’m guessing that the larger mare *might* top out over 14 hh when she finishes growing, but the smaller chestnut is never going to make it to 13.2 hands even standing on a hill.
Turns out that although the horses were supposedly randomly selected at the original muster point to best match each person’s request, when they were yarded overnight at a way station on the way here, ‘someone’ got to pick and chose which ones went to their friends, and since I was the last person on the delivery list by the time they got to the end of the line I pretty much got the dregs that were left on the truck – NOT what I asked for (I suppose it could have been worse – they weren’t colts after all – I guess 1 out of 4 ain’t all that bad, aye?). If there is ever a next time, at least I’ll know to ‘volunteer’ to go help at the overnight yards; at least that way I might have some chance of getting what I asked for!
Luckily for me, the fugly little chestnut mare turns out to have THE MOST AMAZING horse-onality – she won’t ever be a pretty show pony, but one day she’ll be the bestest all-round good mate and pony club mount a kid could want, as long as they never want to enter a conformation class LOL. And she might be a chestnut but at least she’s a beautiful deep cherry red when her coat is good. So despite my first impression of ‘Oh my god it’s a fugly mini Yak’, she’s turned out to be a wonderful addition to my equine family and I’m glad to have her.
Claire Vale
Kahurangi Equine Rescue
New Zealand
My story is a little different. When I “found” my horse on the CANTER site, they had him listed as 16.1 1/2 hands. I had serious reservations about whether or not I wanted a horse that big (I’m 5’3″). Decided to go out and see him, I also had the opportunity to ride him, and he felt good to me, ie not too big. A couple years later I picked up the aluminum measuring stick at Equine Affaire and went home a measured him. He is just barely 16 hands, which I am totally fine with. My point was that this horse almost got passed over by someone who provides a great home because she thought he might be too big.
Sellers, please do your horse/pony a favor and report their size accurately. While you may think that everyone wants a huge horse, not everyone does. Also, you are clearly wasting everyone’s time when you do that.
Also, that aluminum measuring stick has got more use out of it than I ever expected. It often gets brought out when we are bored, like the last time we had a nighttime emergency vet call and had time to kill. I also plan to take it with me should I ever be going out to look at a sale horse
endurostorm says: “To Sophie’s comment about Friesians. I have been shopping for a Friesian for 10 years and discovered a long time ago the Friesian world does not measure their breed the same as the rest of the world. Instead of measuring at the apex of the wither bone they measure them at the highest point where the unique Friesian trait of the neck has a dent above the wither where the neck then ‘appears’ to start due to their high head set.”
Huh. I had no idea, but that explains a lot. I guess maybe my girl’s dad really was almost 15.3 in the Friesian world. Darndest thing. I guess that explains why they think their other stallion is over 17 hands. He’s big–but he’s not that big.
To be fair, I think it’s difficult to find the apex of the withers on a Friesian because of their extremely high neck set, so I tried my best at the withers, and then just measured her croup. She appears to be built a bit uphill, but that could also just be the neck set, so I’m going with 15.1 until I’m told otherwise.
Thanks for the info, though. It all makes more sense, now…
As a teenager many years ago, I spent numerous hours going to visit horses that were just not as advertised. There was no e-mail or posting pics. One I just couldn’t believe was advertised as a horse 15-15.2. They were sure he was just what I wanted. It must have been a 2 hour drive. I remember turning the corner of the barn, so excited, to see a 13h(maybe) pony with LONG feet. Ugghh! Cute for sure, but way too small. Did they think we would not notice?
I ended up getting a Paso/QH X nearby that was as advertised & had him for the next 25 years, until he was put down at 31 years old.
Six years ago,I had a cute yearling Paint gelding for sale. Mom & dad were 14.2-14.3h. Never said he was going to be big-of course no one wanted to come see him unless I could guarantee at least 15.2h. One woman heard through the grapevine I had him & wanted to come visit. She gets out of the vehicle & says he just won’t do, she is looking for a 17h Paint stallion. Crazy woman anyway-I told her good luck & sent her on her way.
“What magickal powers does a 16 hand horse have that is denied to a 15.3 horse? ”
Smaller horses aren’t always the best for everyone. I’m tall, and on a horse that’s much under 16 hands I look like I’m riding a little kid’s pony.
And I’ve had big horses all my life and none of them have ‘fallen apart’ as they aged. Like everything else, it’s all how you take care of them.
Yikes @ the Athol mare peeing! What in the world are those Athols thinking?
This has always amused me.
I saw an ad for a 16.2 hand horse the other day. I guess the girl on him would have had to be
7 ft tall! I’ll never understand why someone would misrepresent the height of a horse when they
know that as soon as a potential buyer sees it, they would know the truth.
Yup, traveled about 6 hours to look at a horse for my husband once, young arab cross. The gal stated the horse was currently 15.1 and would mature to 15.3. Sent pics and all, looking back, we should have known there was something up since none of the pics included people or other objects to get “perspective”. We arrive, and she pulls a very pretty, very well behaved almost 14H gelding out of her barn. Since the husband is 6’3″ for real….that will NOT work….and had we known, we would not have spent the whole day traveling! She did have well bred, well behaved, beautiful horses, a very striking leopard half arab/appy stallion – would have made a knock out gelding, but nothing she owned was 15H….NOTHING.
Also have an older friend who swore her quarab was 15H because of where his withers were in comparison to her shoulders. You guessed it…..she’s shrunk and her boy was really 14.2….on a good day….LOL.
Someone once told me they had a 21hh race-winning Thoroughbred. I’ve also heard of a 16hh Paso Fino. And I LOVE how 90% of Quarter Horse owners think their horse is 16hh.
Oh… And my mare is only 15.1hh, but she’s always with my 13.3hh gelding (who looks a lot bigger than he is), so everybody swears she’s 16hh and are shocked when I tell them how tall she is.
fhotd says:
October 21, 2009 at 3:26 pm
And yet another example of pictures you shouldn’t use in a sale ad:
http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/1427143589.html
=====
Tends to be a bit stubborn to go
Not from what I’m seeing.
I’m also a fan of the smaller horse and I am an Amazon!
I just started riding last year, and came off a 17 hand Percheron during a lesson. He gave a little buck and that was the end of it (that was also my one and only time riding in an English saddle!). At that point, I thought something smaller might be preferable, despite the fact that I am 5’11 and more than a little overweight (luckily my height hides it pretty well). I decided that if I was going to hit the ground again, I wanted a shorter fall!
It was really hard to find a horse that I thought could carry me, without buying some gigantic horse! I understand that it may make sellers suspicious when someone asks the weight of the horse, but sometimes there is a valid reason!
I really liked a QH that I saw at TBFriends, but the horse weighed about 300 lbs less than I thought a horse should weigh to carry me. I finally ended up with an abandoned QH/Standardbred cross. He is around 15.2, but has a thick body, and STURDY legs. He weighs around 100 lbs less than I thought would be ideal, but his legs make up for it! I’m new to horses, but his legs were the first thing I noticed. They are thick! I have since started looking at Standardbreds more closely, and despite the fact that their backs are sometimes a little long for a heavier rider, those thick legs seem to be pretty common and are awesome! I really like the overall look of TBs, but those frail looking, delicate legs frighten me. And those QHs bred for halter just look like their little feet would just snap right off. A farrier told me that STBs tend to have really healthy feet. This has been the case as my gelding has HUGE feet for his size, and he goes barefoot.
I did make sure to get a synthetic saddle, that fits both me and the horse (I needed an 18″ seat which is NOT easy to find on a Western saddle) so I would not be adding another 40 lbs, and so far, we are doing well together.
It’s funny, because at my barn most of the western riders are larger and/or taller, and generally riding smaller horses, and most of the English/Dressage sort of riders are these little tiny women on huge, tall, scary horses! Why is that I wonder?
About that video that snaffles posted……Ummm…have you really looked at it??? Sure the fences are *frightening!*, but look at that guy’s seat between the fences, look at his leg, look at his skill at getting his stirrups back. I suspect this was some sort of spoof ride because there’s no way this fella doesn’t know how to ride. I’d give a kidney for his sense of balance!! Look at the fence at 1:54 where he went in without at least a right stirrup, if not missing both. Not once, even with all of those BAD fences did he catch that pony in the mouth. I can’t get the second half of the video to load, but this is just my two cents from the first half.
I am in the midst of horse hunting and not at all amazed when horses are a full hand or two shorter than advertised. I make it perfectly clear when I call people that I want nothing more than 16 hands. I’m a little girl and do not need, or want, a big horse. My current horse is 15.2 with brand new shoes on and fits me perfect. But all the horses listed as 16.3 barely make 15.2! I don’t even bother asking about size anymore because I know it will not be true! Only one in about a the bizzilion horses I have looked at has been the size advertised. Though I have to admit, fatter horses just look bigger! I looked at a lovely 15.3 TB who looked smaller than his 15.3 QH barnmate because the TB was more ‘delicate’ looking than the other.
And can I just note that I get much better price quotes on those ‘smaller’ horses because the trend is for those bigger horses? I can get a lot of horse for my buck looking under 16 hands….if only I could find that horse I’m dying to spend my money on….and my other horse is begging for so he can retire!
My boss is elderly and has always said when measuring sans stick or tape, “I’m 15.1 hands!” And we’ve always gone by that. She is apparently shrinking, however, as a filly we tabbed at 16.2 based on the boss’s height is actually 15.2!
We also had a buyer come and look at at a 16.2 hand filly. Had asked me on the phone prior to visiting, “Is she really, truly 16 hands-plus?” And I told her yes. When she came to see the horse, the relief that yes, the horse was as tall as advertised was written all over her. The last horse she’d been to see, the people had sworn up and down that the horse was 16.1. She got there and it was 14.3
Here is one that is currently going on in Washington near you Fugly.
I was looking at horses on Dreamhorse and recognized this gelding from when I lived in Port Orchard. http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1462602
His name was “Winston†but it was changed to “Navarre†when he was purchased by a woman and her daughter. “Navarre/Winston†is listed as a five year old. Only problem is he was five years old when I knew him and I moved to Denver almost four years ago!
I went to the original owner/breeder website and there is our boy “Winston†listed as the 2001 model we know he is. http://www.shirefoxfarm.com/sales/Winston/
Then I go to the former trainer’s site. Yep, there’s our boy “Winston†being sold in 2004. http://www.tzonetraining.com/2004sales.html (He looks pretty big considering he was born in 2004;)
And here he is again in 2005 as a five year old with his new name “Navarre†http://www.tzonetraining.com/traininggallery.html
I contacted the original owner/breeder and forwarded the info and received confirmation this is Shirelands Winston. She sold him as a weanling and he is now over eight years old.
I email the current seller http://burrisdressage.com/Navarresalespage.html to let them know that apparently somewhere along the line when “Winston†got a name change to “Navarreâ€, he also got a new birth year as well. I include all the above information as well as the name of another trainer they can contact to verify the above.
The response I get is QUOTE “the owner has a bill of sale from 2005 stating that the horse was a 2 year old which would make him 6 years old….†huh?
It’s been almost two weeks since I notified this seller they were misrepresenting this horse, but the ads have not been changed. hmmmmmm……………………..
I bought a horse who had been advertised in good faith at 16hh. His previous people I guess didn’t have a stick and so the agent used her hands to measure him. She had small hands. He’s 15.2 1/2 under a USEF stick. And if he hadn’t been advertised at 16hh, he’d not have appeared in my Dreamhorse search results and I’d never have gone down to look at his furry self in the first place. He looks taller than he is, his barrel is wide enough that my long legs fit him, and I like not needing a ladder to get on. All’s well that ends well, he’s the perfect horse for me, and I’m really glad his previous owners didn’t set a stick on him! (Besides, the story about the announcer in the Children’s Large Pony ring mistaking us for his rider on deck as we walked past on the way to the Maclay flat phase is pretty funny!)
My AQHA gelding actually sticks shorter than you would think he is. People often look at him and think he’s 16hh, but he is actually the ‘runt’ of th bunch at 15.2hh (there is a lot of draft blood in my group).
Sunvalleysally says:
October 21, 2009 at 9:23 am
There also needs to be some education along with the accurate measuring. A hand is 4 inches. For example, there is no such measurement as “14.5″ hands. I see these bizarre measurements even on rescue sites where the people who are trying to rehome rescues really should know better.
A month or two ago there was an article in EQUUS that mentioned a horse’s height as 16.5hh. Talk about people who should know better. Editing Fail.
I’m just baffled by one friend who describes a horse as 15 hands 7 inches. Ummm, what?
I recently went to see a horse that was supposed to be 15 hands . It was MAYBE 13 hands MAYBE . And as I stood towering over the poor ewe necked little thing, the owner tried to convince me that it would be big enough for me , I’m 5 fricking 7 ! Oh and the other day I drove an hour to see a dead broke you can put anyone on him lesson horse prospect . And yes you could put anyone on him, but if you happened to want that person to turn, stop, back up, side pass etc. good luck with that !
She’s 14’5 and still growing!
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/grd/1432280607.html
Dealing with Standardbred trainers I learnt very quickly most of them have no idea how tall their horses are. It is one of the few sports where the height makes no difference at all.
They can tell you exactly what size harness and hopple the horse wears but other than that it is usually ” he’s about normal size”, “he’s not very big” or “he’s a bloody big bugger!” LOL
It is always a surprise when you go and pick them up
Just to add…
You can imagine my surprise then when I get a call to pick up a 7yo gelding who is 17’3hh.
“Yeah Sure” I think, probably more like 16’3
Well blow me down if he wasn’t every inch of 17’3hh, and very solid as well.
I had to use a step ladder to get on him while breaking him in!
Recently I bought a ‘supposedly’ 14.1hh pony, who is actually measured at around 12.3hh. It’s a shame too because I was needing a larger mount and 14.1hh was going to be a stretch anyway >:( Not only that but the owner lied about many other things as well, “years of pony club” my ass!
“This pony can wink and spray like mares with the torque and velocity of a 19H Belgian!” is I think what that pictures is trying to convey, fhotd.
Here’s my contribution of the day:
http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/grd/1430362440.html
Maybe the reason they were breeding the grade pinto with the confirmation of a cinder block is because the 86 YEAR OLD WOMAN RIDING HER was deceived by her cataracts.
I know that stick … for a lot of mini horses its the “ugly” stick. As stated above , once your over …your out. many bad mini owners use tacks or pins at the end of that to “intice” a miniature horse to shrink down its back to measure smaller. Here in Europe we measure at the last hair on the mane. My new mare s hair is at the top of the wither, and she has a high wither … I am out of the game… Sigh…more money wasted. But I love my horse. Miniature horse people are obsessive about measuring, we have to be. But are still often lied to when selling a horse.
I’ve found that some people forget that horses cam grow until they are 5 or 6 yrs old and that they refer to what they were measured at when 3 or 4 yrs old. When I bought my APHA mare I was looking for size (not huge but not 14h) and was excited that she was advertised as 15.2. When we got there she seemed bigger than 15.2 but I thought maybe it was because she was wide as well. They had owned her for two years, since she was just barely 4 yrs. It seems they did not measure her since they bought her. She measured a solid 16h when I got her home.
I don’t discriminate against horses that are smaller in stature, but I do like proportion between the horses and rider. The local polo club comes and plays at our arena, and there are some big fellows on some little narrow assed horses…but those little horses are mighty agile and very bold. They just make me chuckle until I see them go to work. There is a fellow boarder at my barn who is probably just over 5 ft and 100 lbs soaking wet, and she is perfectly matched with her little cob pony. They just look so well suited for each other, it seems to add something.
Hi Fugly,
I would like some advice, so I was wondering if you would do a blog entry on deworming yearlings. I am reading so much info that all conflicts. Any feedback from you and the readers would be terrific!
My deal:
Two very large yearlings. An honest 14 hands ( with a measuring stick, on flat ground, directly on wither)
They are dewormed frequently. After every deworming, visible worms in manure. Small white threadlike, Red pinworms, large ascarids, you name it.
I used Strongid in August.
Fenbendazole in September.
Zimectrin this month.
Everytime I deworm there are many visible worms. I wouldn’t say excessive, but many.
Should I keep deworming every single month while they are growing?
My gelding is alot leaner than his sister and I’m trying to put the weight on him. ( I wish I could give him 20lbs off me)
I feed “mare and foal” by blue seal. I think it’s 16%? I mix this with oats and a cup of Calf manna. Fed twice a day during the week and break it up into three times a day on the weekends. Plus nice hay, no weeds, dust, etc,
My yearlings are not fed off the ground. There is manure in the pasture. But not alot, we just moved to a new house so they have been in this pasture since March.
I have been a deworm four times a year kinda person with my older mares. I feel like I’m doing overkill, but the babies look good, no potbellies, great haircoats. The older mares and the babies are not in the same pasture. So now I’ve been hitting the older mares with more frequent dewormings but nothing visible in their manure.
What do I do to get rid of these forsaken worms? Is this a baby thing?
OT – Some people get what they deserve – (hopefully the link will show up):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdTVnm2MtM
Nikki – try the Panacur Power Pak its the panacur wormer done everyday for 5 consecutive days. That should safely clear almost everything out of their system without sending it into shock like Quest would. If you’re still seeing high worm loads after that, you need to get a fecal count done by a vet to see what the load is and get an appropriate program fom them.
I purchased an off-the-track Standardbred last spring, I was told he sticked on the track at 17 hands. When I got him home, he looks the same size as my 16.2 TB. He IS the same size. So is the track stick wrong, or am I measuring wrong? I use a stick, a tape, and also my own height (5’4″) to gauge their height.
Also, I trailrode recently with a woman who swore her OTTB was 16.3, yet mine was taller, so she thought mine was at least 17. But every measurement I make of him puts him at 16.2. And I also rode with 2 people who swore their horses were 15 hands, but they looked less than 14.2 to me. I thought I was crazy or just incompetent till I started reading this post…
BroncoGirl says:
October 21, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Here is one that is currently going on in Washington near you Fugly.
I was looking at horses on Dreamhorse and recognized this gelding from when I lived in Port Orchard. http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1462602
His name was “Winston†but it was changed to “Navarre†when he was purchased by a woman and her daughter. “Navarre/Winston†is listed as a five year old. Only problem is he was five years old when I knew him and I moved to Denver almost four years ago!
=====
BroncoGirl… Nice catch.
I’m thinking, I’m not paying $12,000 for an unregistered horse you can’t prove it’s age or breed. Why bring up AWR at all?
This is SO sleazy!
I wouldn’t pay those prices, period! I’ve been looking at eventers and all of them (young, talented, and well bred), with good training and some low-level competition experience, fall into her first price category. I’m glad I don’t compete in dressage, if the size of your wallet determines your ribbons!
Hey Fugly, your link, “Transition a Horse” in the sidebar is dead.
I remember at age 11 being taught to ride on a 14.2 Appaloosa. Jeez, he seemed like such a giant to me! Even now, I’d much rather ride a pony than a huge horse. I always felt like I kept my seat better and could use my weight and legs more effectively on the smaller guys. Then again, I probably just needed more lessons in general, LOL!
I’m 5’3″ and 125 lbs. One fine day, I hope to have a horse of my own. But by golly I am NOT going to get one before I’m certain I can afford feed, vet, farrier, and boarding! Oh yes, and more riding lessons.
Anyone have any opinion on whether my height/weight would be too much for a Haflinger to bear? I adore those little guys!!!
drsgjunky says: October 22, 2009 at 10:27
=====
BroncoGirl… Nice catch.
I’m thinking, I’m not paying $12,000 for an unregistered horse you can’t prove it’s age or breed. Why bring up AWR at all?
This is SO sleazy!
to: drsgjunky
I know! I was willing to give the seller the benefit of the doubt because it appeared they were basing their ad on false information the owner provided. Now I’m not so sure.
I provided the seller with contact info for the original breeder and two local trainers that worked with Winston/Navarre from 2004 to 2007. It does not appear the seller plans to follow up on any of this.
I think it’s crazy to lie about a horse when it’s so easy to find the truth. It took me less than five minutes to look up this information that shows him (and his name change) from his birth in 2001 to 2004/2005.
http://www.shirefoxfarm.com/sales/Winston/
http://www.tzonetraining.com/2004sales.html
http://www.tzonetraining.com/traininggallery.html
I guess since the ad is still up they plan to hang their hat on the “bill of saleâ€. http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1462602
Ironically the email response I received from the seller stated “the owner has a bill of sale from 2005 stating that the horse was a 2 year old which would make him 6 years old….â€
Wouldn’t that make his birth year 2003? Why are you still calling him a 5 year old?
http://burrisdressage.com/Navarresalespage.html
Oh well, buyer beware.
PerkySkeptic –
Haflinger’s are sturdy things, I think you could definitely fit one. I’m 5’6″+ and 130, and I’ve ridden 13hh stocky ponies without a problem.
I’ve never experienced issues with people misrepresenting the horse’s height. Usually, in my experience, this is because the horse has way bigger problems than being short, and the owner is trying to keep these under wraps. The first horse I bought was, as advertised, an honest 15 hands when I bought her. What was misrepresented was her ability to tie. She didn’t tie, as I found out when she panicked and flipped over backwards when I brought her home (among other things). Now, seven years later, she ties, but somehow, she managed to shrink two inches and is now 14.2 in her old age. You just can’t win:) Second horse I bought was, as advertised, 15.2, but what they didn’t tell me was they weren’t feeding him, so, when I brought him home and started actually giving him some calories, he turned into a lunatic. Next, I bought a mare and foal pair (well bred and NICE) and the lady had enough sense to say she hadn’t measured the mare rather than lying and saying she was 17hh when in reality she’s 15.3 1/2, but she told me the mare jumped right in the trailer. It took us three hours to get her in when we went to pick up her and the colt. Did the woman think I wasn’t going to notice the issue before the mare got off the property? Most things with horses are going to be obvious when you actually go look at a horse, so lies, for the most part, are futile. Is every seller hoping someone will buy their horse sight unseen?
Not actually buying at the moment but I saw an add in Horsedeals earlier, I dont want to buy but I can still look and want, there was a little buckskin pony.
Marketed as a QH x Mustang…yes common enough….I am in Australia! There are no mustangs in Oz…so either they meant to write Brumby but was a tad confused about the name or they thought calling it a mustang would help it sell better…it was up for $1000 unbroken and basically unhandled.
To compete in the USEF junior hunters, all horses must be measured by a USEF official. Every horse has to have a measurement card. Here are photos of our horse Tatabra Oprah getting measured by the USEF steward at a Lake St. Louis hunter-jumper show. She’s officially a “large junior hunter.”
http://www.flickr.com/photos/australianshepherds/2852518460/in/photostream/
Notice measurement is at the withers, not the back or butt.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/australianshepherds/2852518460/in/photostream/
BroncoGirl says:
October 23, 2009 at 11:41 am
to: drsgjunky
I know! I was willing to give the seller the benefit of the doubt because it appeared they were basing their ad on false information the owner provided. Now I’m not so sure.
I provided the seller with contact info for the original breeder and two local trainers that worked with Winston/Navarre from 2004 to 2007. It does not appear the seller plans to follow up on any of this.
I think it’s crazy to lie about a horse when it’s so easy to find the truth. It took me less than five minutes to look up this information that shows him (and his name change) from his birth in 2001 to 2004/2005.
http://www.shirefoxfarm.com/sales/Winston/
http://www.tzonetraining.com/2004sales.html
http://www.tzonetraining.com/traininggallery.html
I guess since the ad is still up they plan to hang their hat on the “bill of saleâ€. http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1462602
Ironically the email response I received from the seller stated “the owner has a bill of sale from 2005 stating that the horse was a 2 year old which would make him 6 years old….â€
Wouldn’t that make his birth year 2003? Why are you still calling him a 5 year old?
http://burrisdressage.com/Navarresalespage.html
Oh well, buyer beware.
=====
The original seller shows him registered with the AWS (not the AWR as shown in the DH Ad – but unregistered), in 2001. That would be when he was registered with the AWS, so my guess would be he was born before he was registered (which is usually the case). If this is the same horse (and it sure looks like it with the facial markings), he’s actually nine (as of 2009), not five as listed in the DH Ad.
The current owner (name/phone number listed in the DH Ad) might want to touch-up his birth date. They do have two other horses listed on DH and that seriously reflects your personal/business ethics & values. It’s possible the horse was miss-represented and sold without his papers but that doesn’t make him any younger. I find it a tad hard to choke down since the description of the horse (http://www.tzonetraining.com/2004sales.html) says he’s a 2001 American warmblood sold in 2004.
If someone contacted me (the owner/seller or trainer) and told me the horse is older (with the links provided), I’d be looking into it ASAP. $12,000 for a horse that has no papers, tossed from one side of the state to the other and nothing to prove his breed or DOB looks pretty underhanded. Maybe they’re hoping (& praying) he won’t be Vetted.
An unregistered Warmblood. That alone says $cam.
I am on the flip side, as the seller. I train Arabians, and we are really not that concerned with size… just look at all of the 6’2″ male trainers on purebreds:) Yet, I have actually had people stand next to a horse, look right at him, look at me and ask “How tall is he?” I always answer: “He’s that tall”, and point. It just seems so silly to get hung up on a random number when you are actually standing right there looking at the animal, or sitting on him. It’s a little thing that makes a lot of us Arab trainers laugh. Oh, and never ever believe an Arab person when they tell you how tall a horse is. Always subtract a hand. Normal looks huge to us.
fyi–watched this video and was astounded at the rider’s inability to keep his stirrups as well as bouncing a good foot into the air and then rebounding onto the horse’s back until I read the comments section. Turns out the rider is supposedly paraplegic; would go far to explain his horrible seat.
While I applaud his tenacity and courage, I’m appalled at the damage that poor horse has to be receiving each time this man’s full weight comes down on his horse’s back. If the rider is paraplegic, he cannot ease his way back down into the saddle with his leg muscles. I’m surprised he stayed on at all.
Is there ever a limit that because that’s what you, the rider, want, doesn’t have to mean misery for the horse?
Just thought I’d mention this for any other archives readers.