Let me introduce you all to an amazing invention!
Oct 21 2009
This wonderful contraption is called a MEASURING STICK.
It can be obtained for a whopping $25 on this site.
I would highly recommend that all of you planning to sell a horse in the near future purchase one, if you have not done so already. I have recently been stunned anew at the utter inability of horsepeople to accurately state their animals’ height. Clearly the eye adds four inches for most of you, and you therefore need a little help. It’s only $25 so order one today and become an honest horse seller! (P.S. The measuring tapes don’t work very well. You will not get an accurate read.)
Now, let’s talk about this. What’s your best story about a seller who either wildly underestimated or overestimated height? I received this one from a friend last night:
“Ok, so a gal I know found a horse online that she was interested in. He was a gelding, bred for barrels, started under saddle, “15 hands”, and young (3 yr old) Buyer is in Washington, Seller is in Oklahoma. So three full weeks of videos, e-mails and pictures later, the Buyer decides she has to have the horse, sends a check, arranges a hauler, and anxiously awaits the arrival of her new horse. (Bear in mind, she never actually saw him in person, nor did she know anyone who could go look at him in OK) So the haul shows up with a 10 horse goes-on-forever trailer, after dark, and has the horse at the very front of the trailer. So back he comes leading what looks like a horse (sort of) and instead of a heavy thump of hooves, we hear the pitter-patter of tiny feet. And down the ramp comes… A pony.Â
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My neighbor (the Buyer) said “What the FUCK is that? That’s not my horse.”Â
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Hauler says “Yep. Picked him up at blah blah place in CITY, Oklahoma. Let me get the paperwork.”
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Paperwork checks out. Pictures and markings match. Yep…she got shnookered. (Actually, the seller was a genius at taking flattering photos) The “horse” is skinny, wormy, mane all fucked up, he’s just a MESS and he’s tiny.
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Buyer says “Well maybe with some decent feed, he’ll grow. And if he doesn’t, I can always sell him.” Puts him in the barn, I say good night.
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Next day, she calls the seller and says “Something happened to this horse in the trailer during the ride over here.”Â
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Seller gasps appropriately and said “Really? Oh no! What happened?”
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Buyer says “He shrunk. He’s not 15 hands. He’s not even 14 hands. He’s only 13.2 hands”
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Seller says, “Oh! Well I trimmed his feet.”
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Buyer says “6 inches worth? Do you even know how to measure a horse?”
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Seller says indignantly, ‘Well, yes! 15 hands is what he’ll MATURE at.”
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The horse is now 6 yrs old and is 15 hands…after a workout and just before the farrier pulls his shoes to trim him.”
Sounds familiar! All right, let’s hear your stories.
155 comments to “Let me introduce you all to an amazing invention!”
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there is an Arab in Indiana for sale as 16H. It says ‘fence in background is FIVE feet” His whithers are LEVEL or al ittle under five feet. So…3 hands PER foot…five feet….um…15H maybe 15.1 if he is a few feet away further from the fence than he looks (nearly touching).
I do use the measuring tape, however I first place a 2-ft carpenter’s level across the horse’s withers and then measure from the ground to the bottom of the level. Prior to the tape purchase, I used a standard 10-ft tape measure and divided the inch measurement by 4.
You must admit, it is confusing to list horse height using a decimal point where 15.2 means “15 hands, 2 inches”. The traditional usage of decimal points is to extend to “tenths” “hundredths”, etc. So a horse that is 15 hands 2 inches would properly be 15.5 hands (15 and 1/2 of a 4-inch hand).
No wonder the normal population thinks horse people are crazy!
When my daughter was a teenager she had a 16′ hand thoroughbred mare being used for hunter. She wanted a bigger horse and was looking for a gelding. Our trainer found one in the next community, talked with the owner and was assured that this gelding was 16’2. We drove over. When we arrived she brought out this pony-sized horse and said here he is. Daughter rode the horse out of courtesy. The owner kept asking how tall our mare was. Trainer’s response “She’s big, makes this horse look like a pony.” Never would tell her how tall the mare was. Owner would have thought we had a midget, too, as our mare was supposedly shorter than her gelding. We figure she measured with a stick with the bottom 12″ missing. Obviously we didn’t trade.
she saw VIDEOS of him and yet couldn’t recognize that he was that short?! umm..
This is a great subject! I am one of those strange people who prefers smaller horses. I’ve never quite understood the mania for really big horses. Biomechanically and internally, my observation is that they tend to fall apart as they age much more frequently/quickly than your average horse who’s under 16HH, no matter the breed. It would take a really special specimen for me to consider buying a horse taller than 16HH.
So, understanding that I’m in the minority opinion, it’s been entertaining to see how people stretch smaller horses – because I am looking for a smaller rather than a taller. So advertising the true height would be an attractor for me, not a detractor. Best example is when I was looking to buy a Haflinger – a breed that is classically around 13.2HH – and kept seeing ads for “modern” type Haflingers advertised as being 14-15HH. In person, they were really more like 13.2HH, so that was a PLEASANT surprise for me. I thought to myself, if you want a 15HH horse, why would you look for a Haflinger to start with?
Bigger is not necessarily better!
What about stud owners? None of them are capable of measuring either!
I was looking for a stud for my TWH mare and found one in my state that had the bloodlines I was looking for. I emailed the owner and told her that I specifically was looking for a stud a little taller than my 15.1h mare (who, btw, people always ask me how tall she is and when I tell them they argue with me that she’s closer to 16h!). She replied that he was 15h, but I decided to make the three hour drive to meet him anyway. When she took him out of his stall, he was a PONY! He was MAYBE 14h on a good day. I couldn’t believe it. Another breeder that knew this woman didn’t believe me when I told her that she swore her stud was 15h because they joked to each other all the time about him being a pony. She believed me after I forwarded her the email written by the stud’s owner.
Now, I’m looking for a QH stud and I’m having difficulty finding one in the mid-15h-16h range that I like, and that actually LOOKS like they might be that actual height (compared to fences and people in photos, etc.). I’ve seen so many advertised as 15h-16h that the person standing next to them must be a freaking giant! It’s very frustrating!
It’s like a saddle- ask for a photo of them standing by the measuring stick.
Uh, were the people in the videos little people or something? Miniature fencing/cars/etc. in the background?
As many know the ad I answered described Coconut as a *Tall* 15.2 Arabian Mare….and I got there to be shown what looked like a pregnant mule. I wasn’t sure what I was getting but she walked up to me, put her head in my chest and let out that sigh that said “I don’t know where you come from Lady but I’m sure you have food there, please take me with you”
Thankfully it turned out there was a beautiful Arab hiding in that neglected body but it was a huge leap of faith.
I see a pattern here…lack of knowledge…lack of proper care!
There also needs to be some education along with the accurate measuring. A hand is 4 inches. For example, there is no such measurement as “14.5″ hands. I see these bizarre measurements even on rescue sites where the people who are trying to rehome rescues really should know better.
This might make you laugh, but in my world (reined cow horse) nobody cares what size the horse is. The horse is either big enough or it isn’t.
When asking each other about a prospect size is never brought up. Bloodlines, conformation and how they ride, in that order.
There is a top Texas trainer who won just about everything that could be won on a paint who couldn’t be more than 14 hands. He’s at least 6’4, probably taller.
People might have laughed at the the odd couple, but only before they went in the show pen.
I never thought to measure a horse until I first advertised on dream horse, every inquiry was worried about size.
THAT makes me laugh. So now I measure.
Many years ago I was helping a friend find a new ride, and found an add for a 15hds AQHA mare and decided to go have a look. She turned out to be 14 hds, which I pointed out to the seller, so I nego’d some $$ off the price. She eventually turned out to be a great hunter pony
When looking for an animal that is a certain height, I always take my own stick! There are tons of dishonest ‘horse traders’ out there…
>>As many know the ad I answered described Coconut as a *Tall* 15.2 Arabian Mare….and I got there to be shown what looked like a pregnant mule. I wasn’t sure what I was getting but she walked up to me, put her head in my chest and let out that sigh that said “I don’t know where you come from Lady but I’m sure you have food there, please take me with youâ€< <
I laughed at the “pregnant mule” but I know EXACTLY what you mean. This is how a lot of these horses wind up with us, isn’t it? They just give you that “PLEASE GET ME OUT OF HERE” look!
And yes, there are disciplines where size doesn’t matter, but they aren’t as numerous as the disciplines where size does matter, and where in fact the judges WON’T place a little one. You show me a 14.3 HUS horse that can place in AQHA out there…it does not exist…I don’t care how well it moves.
You see a lot of big dudes on little mares in polo, too.
But that’s one of those disciplines where smaller is better!
I haul horses on the west coast and last month someone emailed to ask if I could pick up their horse in LA that is ‘almost 20 hands’ tall. I told them they need to remeasure because rarely is a horse that tall, the world record is about that. She insisted that she was right. I didn’t haul the horse because I hate hauling for idiots and I’d love to see her 20 hand horse.
This story makes little to no sense, and/or the buyer is really, really dumb.
(1). If the horse is being transported across state lines (as this pony was), usually they must be accompanied by a negative coggins test and a certificate of health – even if the buyer didn’t do a pre-purchase exam. Insisting on a copy of either of those would have verified the horse’s height and condition.
(2). Like hollyms said, if the buyer saw videos of him especially if he was supposedly started in those videos, how the heck didn’t she recognize that he was that short?
(3). Why didn’t she get a vet to look at the horse before she bought it?
I’m often the only person around who can look at a horse and assess its height…to give an example, when my trainer leased Party, I looked at her and said ‘Seventeen hands’. (Everyone else was going ‘maybe sixteen’). She sticks to 16.3…I’d call that not bad!
The ONE thing I truly appreciate my crappy childhood trainer for was teaching me how to properly eyeball a horse’s height. I’m seldom more than an inch off except with certain very deceptive looking horses…one horse I thought was 14.2, then when I walked right up to him realized he was more like 15.1…he just looked short ’cause of the way he was built.
It’s worth working out your OWN height in hands…that can really help for a quick and dirty judge of a horse’s height.
Truthfully, I think people are simply not *taught* how to judge a horse’s height. People with 30 years experience get it wrong, because nobody ever taught them. And then, not knowing themselves, they can’t teach their students, and the problem gets perpetuated.
If you are five feet tall, you are about 15 hands. Five feet four equates to sixteen. Six feet is equal to eighteen hands. If you know your OWN height and what it equates to in hands, then the quick way to judge is just to walk up next to the horse’s wither and turn your head…and see where it falls next to your own eye level. My eye level is about 14.2-14.3.
Obviously, a stick is better, but if you’re looking at a horse and in a hurry, the height method will give you a good approximation.
For a completely accurate measurement, the horse should be sticked when it is not shod (If pulling the shoes is unfeasible, then a quick rule of thumb is that shoes generally add about a quarter of an inch. But if you have time, you can always just wait until the farrier is pulling and resetting shoes and do it then). It should be stood on a hard, level surface and stood up square.
The thing is, it IS possible to learn to identify a horse’s height.
I have a gelding and I just picked him up last wednesday. The lady who owns him said that he was 16hh and like everyone else I automatically subtract 2 hands from any measurement unless I see it for myself. When I went to go pick him up, for once in the history of horses, the lady hit the nail on the head for her measurement abilities. I was so proud. Now we have a 16hh long yearling that will be 2 in Feb
Fugly, I had to sign in to tell you something is up, I clicked on a highlighted word in the sentance “I recieved this ONE from a freind” the “one” was orange when I clicked, well it took me to a porno site. Just FYI. Then it disappeared.
I got so tired of dealing with this, that I now ask how the seller how they determined height, and what tool was used. If its something that sounds fishy, I ask them to measure again, before I make the trip out to see the horse in person. I qualify the request with the fact that I am 5’8, not a twig, and looking for an endurance horse. I don’t enjoy riding ponies, and I don’t think ponies would enjoy me riding them. In several cases, that prompted an earnest attempt on the seller to accurately report the height. But at first glance, it seems pretty common for people to be 4 inches off in any direction.
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-215972
Someone please upgrade this poor mare! And slap the owners while your there.
“dead broke work horse my 4yr old leads her around.. ride and drive but does have a big leg was caught in a thrasher doesnt affect or fabilty to be ridden.. shes not lame nor does she favor that leg.. its just big and ungly husband safe boomproof maybe in foal no garantees shes is running with a black and white paid stud for the last 2 months.. ”
What is wrong with people?!!
Baydemon, VERY cool! Yes, it’s a nice surprise, isn’t it?
Geekagirl, I doubt a vet certificate would have helped. Do you know how many vets in rural areas will say a horse is fine when it’s not? Some of these people who say “MY vet says she’s FINE” when it’s 200 lbs. underweight aren’t lying. The vet really did say it’s fine.
I don’t know how you’d know horse height from a video unless you knew the rider’s height for sure. And you CAN trick the eye…I mean, lots of people do their sale videos very specifically with a petite rider with short stirrups so that the horse appears huge.
I am sorry to hear that she got snookered by that. It reminds me of the first time I went riding with a friend. I measure using my own height, and I am 16hh. If the horse’s wither is right at my eye level, I figure appx 15hh… I asked my friend how tall her horse was, she said 15.2….. I said no, maybe 14.3…… She was kind of insulted, and we dropped it. She called me the next day and said 14.3…. Hahahha… Somehow they look bigger in your own wallet?
I always think the problem is that we aren’t used to thinking in “hands” — we think in feet/inches — so it’s hard to see “hands”. Most people seem to determine their horses’ height by comparison — well, they said Beauty was 15 hands, and Spot is taller than beauty, so he must be 15.2, and Speedy is much taller than Spot, so HE must be 16.1, and Big Boy must be at least 17 hands — all of which falls apart when it’s realized that Beauty is maybe 13 hands, so Big Boy is about 14.3 …
Plus, the way a horse carries himself can have a huge effect on the “estimated” as opposed to actual height. Horses with long necks carried high, such as ASBs and individuals of a number of breeds, seem taller than they measure. I once went to see an “18 hand” Arabian/ASB — they’d arrived at that height by the comparison method. The horse was full of red ants and blue mud and carried himself high — and all their other horses were SMALL QH types. When I persuaded him to stand still (they were terrified of him, and he was kept shut up, sigh), he was perhaps 15.2. Of course, they wouldn’t believe that.
(I wish I could have upgraded him, but it turned out they wanted a HUGE price for him, even for that high-dollar time. They based it at least partly on his rare breeding — yes, it was very desirable and uncommon, and he was a pinto, but he was a grey and white GELDING — and of course his height. I don’t know what ever happened to him.)
The easiest way to measure a horse that you are with — even if you don’t have your stick and level, or prefer not to chance ticking off the owner for whatever reason — is to use your own height. E.g., I am 5’5″, or 16.1. Standing square and looking straight ahead, my eye-leve is just about 15 hands in most shoes/boots (I don’t do heels). So, if I can look across a horse’s wither without raising my eye-level, he ain’t 15 hands.
If I can’t see over his wither, I can touch the spot at my eyelevel and be able to guesstimate in INCHES how much taller he is. At least you can get an idea! 
I learned ‘the way the horse carries itself’ one from experience, haha. There’s a Morgan gelding out the barn that has the cutest face I have ever seen on a horse and is just the sweetest thing. His name is The Patriot. His owner and everyone else at the barn thought that was the worst name ever and he became known as ‘Pat’. He holds his head high and you have to stand right next to him to tell that he’s only around 15hh. He looks like a freakin’ GIANT with his head up.
There’s only one real ‘giant’ horse out at the barn, his name is Easy. I’d say he’s around 17hh, he’s a Quarter Horse gelding. I’m 5’9″ and he’s at my eye brows, so my guess is 16.3hh or 17hh. He’s also got some serious muscles and FILLS his already fairly large stall. Luckily, he’s also a huge sweety and is perfectly happy to sit there, sleeping with his head on your chest for as long as you’ll let him. The barn got him as a barrel horse, tried to re-train him to english, but he ended up being a lovable lawn-ornament (after a scary ordeal from a bad sale, but he was brought back home and will stay here!) because he had – or at least I was told – wither injuries. He’d be ridden, he’d go lame, he’d heal up, we’d do some light work on him, he’d go lame and this repeated several times before the barn owner just healed him up then set him out in the pasture for retirement, haha.
I once bought a mare that the seller advertised as 16hh. I had seen pictures, including undersaddle ones, and it did appear that was how tall the mare was. The ones under saddle looked like the rider was a little big for her, not too big though.
Mare arrives at my barn and I almost fall over when she steps off the trailer. There is no way this behemoth is 16 hands! We get out the trusty measuring stick and it turns out the mare is a hair’s breath away from 18 hh!
I called the seller and asked about the height discrepency. Turns out, the rider in the pictures is 6 ft 6. That would be why the horse looked 16 hands.
This was a bit of a disaster for me, because the mare was a draft cross, so big bodied, and I am only 5ft6 on a tall day. I could barely get my leg on her, and I looked like I was a little 12 year old girl sitting on Daddy’s field hunter. Not exactly what I was going for
>>I clicked on a highlighted word in the sentance “I recieved this ONE from a freind†the “one†was orange when I clicked, well it took me to a porno site. < <
That phrase isn’t a link on my screen. Is it a link on anybody else’s? I thought the links were consistent.
The links should be G-rated so if they’re not I want to know but I can’t test it if it’s not a link for me.
This makes me ROFL! My crazy neighbor advertises her Fugly stallion at 15.0 – 15.2 hands and I just roll my eyes thinking about the people that may have been interested only to find out the stallion may be 14.2 at best. I am another one of those that doesn’t judge a horse solely on size but do understand why in some disciplines it would matter. Bloodlines, conformation, performance, in that order are what I consider. And no, I would never knowingly misadvertise a horse just to make a sale. It degrades the rest of the community, and ultimately gives everyone a bad name.
ROFLOL>>>>>LOVE this thread! This is like a major pet peeve of mine..and in my tack room, I have a measuring cane. So, my favorite thing to do bring it out just after someone has told me their horse is 16H…and then show them it’s a whopping 14.3H. So…I just sold a NICE little QH mare, that I advertised at 14.2…she was advertised before, when my friend bought her as 15.1H..no way…ever…even with long feet and shoes. There is a guy that comes here with a friend sometimes..he keeps telling me his horse is 17H and weighs the same as my 17H Shire….I would love to have a scale too. LOL.
I am one of those people who looked at photos and video of a supposed 16h Saddlebred and didn’t realize he was smaller than that. It’s difficult to judge size on a big-trotting Saddlebred with a male trainer on his back. Got there to try him out and gasped. I think my first words were “oh he’s tiny.” I measured the horse when I got him home, and he’s barely 15 hands on a good day (right before being trimmed). But turns out, I like little horses. His size fits me really well. And now it totally feels like a chore to climb on my other Saddlebred who is a true 16 hands if not more. I heart tiny horses!
Hmm. I don’t think I’ve ever seen height on a health/coggins cert. I’ve certainly never seen a vet measure a horse before issuing a cert!
And I suspect a little authorial liberty with Fugs’ story — to hear a “pitter patter”, we’re talking Shetland size — 12 hands or so — and a 3 year old isn’t going to grow a FOOT in 3 years, particularly since the huge majority of bone growth occurs in the first year of life. So he was 14 hands and grew a hand with good feed. Entirely possible, although I would wonder if perhaps he was two …
That would make not realizing size in a video more understandable.
I think even you, Fugs, would be surprized at what wins in BIG AQHA shows in HUS. They’re NOT all that big. They’re just tube-bodied and have cannons much longer than is desirable.
Fugly –
I came onto the blog this morning and in the sentence Reddunappy mentioned, the words “a friend” were orange and underlined. I’m at work, so I didn’t click, but hovered over it, and it was bringing up “Naughty Dating” at benaughty dot com. (Not G-rated fare, I’m assuming…LOL)
When I logged in and came back, there were different words highlighted.
I’m not sure if you’re looking for feedback, but I’ve never clicked on those links, and when I’ve hovered over them, they don’t appear to go to anyplace useful (for me at least).
I just had to comment…
Check out any adds for draft horses – it will give you a good laugh. Listed as “huge” and it is 17 hands and regular build. 17 hands is not huge. Others listed as upper 18 to 19 hands and one can tell that the horse is no where near that tall. I sometimes think that they include the ears when measuring.
Long time reader – first time comment – love the site!!!
I ride a horse that sticks at a tad (like 1/4″) below 16 hands and he weighs around 1250 lbs. I feel pretty comfortable with what 16 hands looks like. I don’t know how many times I will have someone tell me about their 16 – 17 hand horse and when I see them, they are lucky if they are pushing 15.2. They see my horse, ask about his size and I say a tad below 16. They will argue and tell me my horse has to be 17 hands yadda, yadda, yadda – that I must have measured wrong – because they couldn’t be overstating their horses height. What is it with height and weight? Why is having the biggest some kind of “I win”. Have you noticed that when people speak of horses they have had in the past they are always 4 inches taller than they were in reality! I love that. I have a friend that is convinenced that she had an 18 hand quarter horse when she was growing up- like 30 years ago. I just smile and nod.
Maybe horse people have the same issue some men do with penis size…. lol
The Morgan world is infamous for inflating the height of sale horses. I tried quite a few; most were advertised as 15 to 15.2 and only the one I bought reached 15 hands (barely). The worst discrepancy was one advertised as 14.1 who was maybe 13.1… a little too small for me, but she’s now off teaching her second little kid to event. I also saw a 14.1 hander (honestly advertised) who was for sale forever because of her size. She was a super fancy little horse, and could have made someone a really, really nice dressage pony; even at not quite 4 she showed collections *and* extensions (these being difficult for a lot of Morgans). She ended up in a more casual trail-rider type home and is well-loved but… wow, size prejudice meant someone really missed the boat there! Her former owner said that the Morgan “hunter pleasure” riders won’t look at something under 16 hands — but big Morgans tend to be more saddlebredy.
In a way, though, it might reflect a good thing — that riders, who, in the US at least are larger and heavier than they used to be, are getting a clue about rider weight to horse weight ratios. so the market is following the demand, if a bit dishonestly. But I do agree with the person who maintains that big horses often do not stay sound as long as little ones do.
Oh, on the measuring stick, the old gelding I sometimes ride is *terrified* of measuring sticks, as in if he sees one, he will break crossties, jump over high fences, anything to get away from it. To get a stick near him, it takes so much tranq that he can’t stand up straight enough to get an honest measurement. His owner finally just decided to say that he’s 16.1 hands, and given the height of his withers compared to my height (15.1 1/2 hands) I think she’s just about right.
My experience is that people continually over-estimate a horse’s height. I have an interest in this ad:
http://boise.craigslist.org/grd/1426077797.html
But not if the horse is actually 18.1 hands! What do you all think, based on the pics? I think he’s tall, but not 18.1 hands tall?
Fugs–The black mare that I posted in the comments yesterday, but deleted by time you checked, is getting help. I saw postings that people we getting together to help her. Good thing, she was super skinny and looked majorly depressed!
Glad to hear about the black mare! VERY glad.
While we are on the topic:
There is no such thing as 14.5 hands.
You have 14.0, 14.1, 14.2, 14.3 and 15.0. And so on.
A hand is four inches, which was considered the average width of a man’s hand placed sideways. People placed their hands sideways, one on top the other, going up from the ground to measure horses in medieval times and that is how the measurement came about.
I purchased a horse off the internet last year that was advertised as 14.3 hands. When he stepped off the trailer I was thrilled with everything about him, except the fact that he was just (barely) 14 hands. He was so wide he looked bigger than he is. My friends still refer to him as the “Big Guy”.
I went to look at a horse that was advertised as 16.2. I do not want a horse that big, so was hoping he was measured wrong. Sure enough, got there and he was a hair under 16 hands. It is a big pet peeve of mine to find a horse measured incorrectly. I’ve got a good eye even if I don’t take a measuring stick to a horse. I’ve lost count of the times a buyer has told me that they were surprised that a horse was actually the height I advertised it to be.
Fugs – here’s a horse you need to feature – when really good horses have realllly baaaaaaaad riders!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMiCyoRzYM
Gal on a forum went out and measured her mare, and said she was 62inches which equaled 16.1 hands…
Her math went like this.. take a calculator, put in 62 inches, divide by 4 and you get 15.5 …… sooooooo then you take that .5 and that equals another hand, and add it and then 1 inch is left over… 62 inches = 16.1 hands.
I tried to be very gentle… while me and the floor were having a discussion on how hard I could laugh!
Seller says, “Oh! Well I trimmed his feet.â€
ROFLMAO
There are many great horses out there that are under 14.2hh, but there is a bias against them. And then you get mini owners, always add 2-4 in to what they say. If you are prepared and polished it shouldn’t matter the size. Wasn’t Zips Choc Chip only14hh?
I’ve learned to estimate height of horses pretty well… I guessed my mare’s height at 15.1 hh and she measures at 15 and half an inch! Pretty good… My rescues are estimated (by me) to be 16.2 hh and 14.3 hh but they remain to be measured…
Runandjump…. SOMEONE GET THIS MARE AWAY from that awful place! Did I see that her name was Mama Mare???? WTF kind of a name is that!!?? She caught her leg… Look at that leg!!! She needs a vet, but instead, they leave her with a paint stud and she might be in foal on top of that… I seriously hit my head on my desk… seriously. Lets analyse… 1. junky pasture if she got caught on something “not sure”. BYB since she is running with a fugly paint stud. No money for treatment and obviously don’t care that her leg is in a bad shape. She is in desperate need of an upgrade!!
Holy CRAP. OK, everybody, look at the video Snaffles posted. How is it he hasn’t been killed yet? That horse is a TOTAL saint! I wonder if it is for sale?
Now that is a horse that needs an upgrade! A talented rider would have a blast with it.
WOW, drillrider, that gelding in Boise looks pretty big to me!
He also has the biggest shark-fin i have ever seen on a TB. That might help that measurement out somewhat.
This year we sold a nice 14.3 hand horse. He was advertised as such – 14.3 hand gelding, 1150 pounds. People that came out to look at him were shocked that he actually was 14.3 hands. Some of them I think were looking for a pony for their kids.
All of our other horses are 16 hands, give or take half an inch. Everyone who sees these horses argues with us about their height. I always get the, “well my horse is 16.2 and he’s not quit as tall as yours, so yours must be closer to 17.” Ummmmm, no, go measure your horse again.
When I load your page there are links that go to ads. If I reload the page sometimes the links are different. Sometimes there is only one, sometimes as many as eight. It uses words or phrases from your blog. It is hard to differentiate between these generated ad links and the links you put in your blog yourself. If I mouse over these ad links it makes a little pop up ad window also, so that is how I can tell if you made the link of if it is an ad.
I see this all the time.
First of all, people ought to learn how to TALK about a horse’s height. It is expressed in hands and inches, for example, 14-3 or even 14-3 1/2. But not 14-4! That tells me the person doesn’t know what the fuck they are talking about. I know that horses keep growing until they are six or seven, but if they are not tall for their age now, no way they will be a lot lot taller later on.
Second, I am 5’8″ tall, for a total of 68 inches. For a horse to be 17 hands, his withers have to be as tall as the TOP OF MY HEAD. If the horse has withers I CAN SEE OVER, it is about 15-1, maybe 15-2. If I can hang my chin on the horse’s withers, he’s about 14-2. So don’t tell me this little horse that does not come up to my chin as a four year old is going to mature to 16-3. Ain’t gonna happen.
I was brought up in the pony club’s path, and taught that a person should have a horse they can see over but not speak over, when looking at the middle of the horse’s back. Withers probably higher, unless you are looking for a downhill build for some reason. It is just easier to tack up if the horse isn’t a giant compared to its rider.
I was also taught to look at a wall with marks on it. “See, Alice, this is 15 hands.” I learned to walk up and eye a horse and I developed MY EYE, rather than letting it go barn blind. There’s a lot of that going around.
And I would never buy a horse without seeing it or having someone I really really trust checking it out for me.
I don’t think I can stand one more ad with a pony advertised as “x.5 hands.”
Even without a stick it shouldn’t be that hard to guess. I’m 5’2″ (62″ or about 15 hands) tall, so if I can see over a horse’s withers in boots with little heel, without standing on my toes, she’s not over 15.1 HH.
I love a large pony, too. I have no idea why people try to pass them off as warmblood-sized. Seems like when I lived on the East Coast, a 14.1 hunter pony was worth a lot more than a 14.3 hunter, which was just a short horse.
I will never forget the barn I moved Promise to when we came to Florida. She came down about 3 weeks after me, so I had time to go visit places, talk to people, etc. The owner kept asking me how tall she was, and I said 16.2hh barefoot, and 16.3hh with 4 shoes, and about 1700lbs. She clearly didn’t believe me. I just giggled to myself, because I had taped, and sticked her many times.
Promise was delivered around midnight due to some delays picking up a horse a few stops prior to ours. So, the next morning, apparently everyone was shocked at the size of the new horse in the barn…she dwarfed everyone’s arabs and quarter horses. The barn owner came up to me when I was there to check on her and see how she was settling in and said, “Wow, you weren’t exaggerating, were you?!”
Drill rider — that gray TB isn’t 18 hands unless the girl is seven feet tall. He is tall, though. And very straight shouldered in the photos (I am not a conformation expert). Sixteen to seventeen is my guess, because the girl does look like she’s built to be tall. But do go check her out before you buy.
I don’t understand people who buy horses without seeing them. I can take photos of my old horse (who makes experts gasp in delight when they see him) and make him look horrible. I expect someone could do the reverse. The only horse I had sticked is 15.2 and one half inch — and he looks smaller until you stand next to him. I have a three year old who looks quite bit taller, we just sticked him at 15.1
I’ve gone out to look at a horse I loved in photos & video — and ended up buying a horse who didn’t photograph as well. I don’t care much about color — though in person I tend to like darker horses. In photos I almost always like the lighter horses — because they photograph better.
Island Rider says:
“I am one of those strange people who prefers smaller horses. I’ve never quite understood the mania for really big horses. Biomechanically and internally, my observation is that they tend to fall apart as they age much more frequently/quickly than your average horse who’s under 16HH, no matter the breed. It would take a really special specimen for me to consider buying a horse taller than 16HH.”
Island Rider, I too am one of those “strange people” as well but we are definitely in the minority. There was a study done a few years ago that proved smaller horses do remain sounder and often outperform bigger horses in most disciplines. Anybody lucky enough to see Teddy O’Conner blast around the Rolex XC course should have come away thinking bigger isn’t necessarily better. I don’t know how the big horse fad started, but we had some very nice rescues, well-mannered sound horses, who weren’t adopted because they weren’t 16 or bigger. What magickal powers does a 16 hand horse have that is denied to a 15.3 horse?
I worked with TB trainers on rehoming horses and because they know people want big horses, heard a lot of nonsence. Most were 16 hands regardless, while others were 15.5 or 15.6….so they would grow to be 16 hands, right? One guy insisted that his horse was 17 hands measured from the coronary band because that’s the “rule” for TBs…um wouldn’t that make your horse several inches SHORTER?? I’m 16 hands (5’4″) so we could always tell if we were in the ball park by having somebody look to see if the horse’s withers were over my head.
I had the opposite problem. I was selling a solid QH mare that was an honest to goodness 15.2h, maybe another half inch taller in the back. Everyone that came to look at her insisted that she was taller than that. I would always have my stick handy so I could show them. I had several people say she was simply too big. Well, she was advertised at 15.2h and you came out to see her. ????? LOL!
Along those same lines, my new horse was advertised as 15.3h. He is a Saddlebred, so when he is on alert with his neck way up there he looks much taller. I thought the sellers under-reported his height as well, but my stick says they were accurate.
Drillrider, I would say that the gray horse is about 16.3 or 17 hh… I wouldn’t think he would be much bigger (although possible, I am on ly looking at a picture) but her feet aren’t so far from the ground and if I compare to me riding my 16.2 mar bareback… it would amount to about the same (I’m 5’8”) or maybe a little taller… so that’s what I think!
The little jumper pony is a SAINT!!! I love him! No wonder he has such a muscular neck… he has to lift his owner up with his neck at every jump! Let alone take one good shot on the withers on landing… I’m surprised that he is jumping so consistantly… I guess he got desensitized. The only thing really puzzling me is the fact that they seem to be at a show… how on earth does anyone with riding skills this bad ever win at any show!?!?! I’m no jumping pro, I’m a western gal (might start english jumping for fun when my mare is older), but I KNOW that your leg stays straight, just like if you were sitting in the saddle, that you fold at the waist, release and do not pull and push on your horse while jumping… it’s a balance thing, if you don’t have balance, DON’T JUMP!
I like small horses myself but they simply aren’t competitive in many disciplines. I grew up in polo – everything we had was little. 15.3 was considered to be a REALLY big horse and almost too big to use. 16 hands, forget it.
I have to laugh a today’s topic. I own a draft cross that has been sticked at least 10 times. He sticks 16.2 but every one swears he is over 17hh. I also have a “little” mare that sticks 16.1. She is also getting the same treatment. On another subject I had a mare for sale that was barley 15hh. She was ranked #1 in the US for beginner novice eventing. I couldn’t get anyone to look at her when I said she was 15hh, but when I said she was 15.2hh I had lots of people that wanted to try her. She sold to the first girl that tried her. Oh as a horse seller I would never sell a horse to someone that didn’t try the horse out them self. If they can’t afford to come out to see him/her then how can they afford to take care of them if something goes wrong?
Drill Rider…I’m guessing the grey is closer to 16.2. My own guy is 15.3 (sticked so I know for sure) When I used the tape to measure all my horses every one of them came out 1″ taller then when measured with a stick. When I guessed their height (before I had either a tape or a stick) I guessed 2 inches taller than their actual height. Knowing for sure how tall my horses are has made it much easier for me to eyeball others and almost acurately guess their height.
I’m generally pretty good at eyeballing a horse, if it’s under 16.2 (my height). 15hh is right at my chin, which is a very good reference. On to the stories…
Several years back I bought a BS Paint x mare as a project horse. They listed her as 15.2, we knew that wasn’t right but it didn’t really matter. She ended up barely 15hh with shoes, right before a trim.
Early this year I was in the market for a mustang, for a trail horse. I found one up in Arlington (a good 2 1/2 hours each way) that was listed as 15hh. He MIGHT have been 14hh – he was standing in thick mud, so it’s hard to be sure – but was clearly a pony, in height and build, and probably closer to 13.2. I don’t need a huge horse for trails, but under 14hh won’t cut it. Virtually the same thing happened when I went to look at a mare in Elma – about as long of a drive.
The mustang I actually bought came directly from the BLM, who it turns out can’t judge height either. The majority of mustangs are 14-15hh, and they regularly list them at 15-15.2. My boy was listed as 15hh, I’m fairly sure he’s 14.3hh, but haven’t measured because I don’t really care. Still, you’d think they see enough horses to be good judges. Are they all midgets?
Generally for a trail horse I prefer one that’s around 14-15hh, and of sturdy build. Shorter horse means less branches to duck under. However, when I’m eventing I’d rather be on a horse that’s at least 15hh, preferably 16+. Taller horses often (but not always!) have better movement for dressage, cover more ground on cross country, and I don’t feel like their back legs will scrape over the jump. However I also have no hesitation about hopping on a small pony that needs to be evaluated by a light, experienced rider, or have a bad habit worked out, as long as I’m sure it won’t hurt them to hold my weight.
All in all, it just comes down to the right horse for the job. If they’re small but athletic, and competing in something where they won’t be judged by appearance, what’s the big deal? If they can’t support the rider, or qualify for breed requirements, or fit in your trailer…well, that’s a problem.
That video that Snaffles posted reminds me of the equestrian portion of the Olympic Pentathlon last summer. It’s essentially horrid, horrid riders who don’t appear to have any empathy for the animal they’re on (read: yanking, whipping long and hard enough to border on beating, etc) jumping fences that are WAY too high. Watching it almost made me sick. Several of the riders (US and British come to mind immediately, both men and women) were actually quite good, but the majority were dangerous.
Women’s
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=pnth-bj-sd09-082208-164020
Men’s
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=pnth-bj-sd09-082108-164024
LOL..I understand the draft illusion. LOL. Harry was just barely 16H (hairless percheron gelding)…but everyone swore he was bigger. My shire is about 16.2..and Belgian well, my cane runs out at `17.2H and she’s a bit bigger than that..but I won’t guess. Everyone thinks the Shire is at least 17H…but it’s just a mass thing…people see large mass and they think big. Ok..the Belgian is big..regardless…that one I will give in on.
OH>>>>and what about people that will say something along to lines of 15.5 H…for a horse that is 15 1/2 hands..instead of the correct 15.2H. Or, the rare 15.8 …LOL.
I hate stupid people
@ Drillrider – my guess would also be about 17hh, if he was built normally. But those mondo withers are hard to account for. You can be fairly sure he is a big boy though. And I’m not sure I’d agree with the seller about him being built for H/J.
Another thought about tall horses. I have a friend who’s 5’1″, and she only rides draft horses. I don’t mean Haflingers; Percherons, Clydesdales, etc. Her horse is a 17.3hh Budweiser bred Clydesdale. And yes, the measurement is correct. She says she likes their gaits better, I still say she’s compensating
Why in the heck would anyone buy a horse sight unseen off the internet? Knowing what you do about the way people will mis-represent or outright lie about their horses age, size, performance, health, soundness, training, condition or anything else they can lie about. Why would you place yourself in the position to get taken in a major way? I can’t ever imagine myself buying any animal sight unseen.
FHOTD, I saw the same thing reddunappy and others noted: some of the orange links in your blog text (and comment text as well) seem to go to “BAD” places. I have noted that the links change when I leave and return to your site and even when I refresh the page I see the same words “Hypertexted” but the links go to different places. I am using Chrome and Firefox 3.5 browsers so the IE experience may be different.
Alrighty, you got me to register and comment with this one, because my friend and I just went through this during a horse shopping experience. It really IS true that people add inches with their eyes! I suppose for people who are used to smaller horses and not the great big WBs in the dressage world, 15.2 can look like 17???
And in their defense… my own horse, Boo, is affectionately known as the half-elephant chestnut because he’s enormous. I figured he must be 17.1 or even taller. Borrowed a stick (concept!!) and measured him… and he was actually a hair UNDER 17.0hh. Not 16.3hh by any means, but certainly not topping 17…. Still, considering he’s 3…well, I’m glad he’s a TB and pretty much done with the upwards growth!
Ok…. after seeing this ad: http://charleston.craigslist.org/grd/1402211800.html over and OVER again on craigslist, I posted this ad: http://charleston.craigslist.org/grd/1386497922.html
Fugs, I’ve been talking about this topic for SO LONG and I am SO GLAD to see it up here! I’m going to echo the sentiments of other posters…. when you fudge on horse lingo to other horse people, you look like a moron and your selling capacity goes down the tube to other morons!
Just.. WOW.
Out here in South Carolina, I see a LOT of small horses.. usually marketed as being 15.3 and upwards. But in the photos they have some 12 year old girl riding them.. and based on the ratio of girl : horse.. I can usually establish that either that is an Amazon Tween.. or a Small horse.
But, out here, a lot of the cause for the small horses is neglect during critical stages of growth.. I see a LOT of people who have horses “cause we’z gots lands” then of course.. they BREED the horses (and i’ll just stop there, because you know alllllll about these sorts. Krazy Kolor and BYB)
These people always sell their unhandled 3 year olds on Craigslist/Horsetopia/etc… and it’s funny, because they claim that they are 3 years old, yet they still have the body style of a Yearling. Unfortunately, these horses usually end up living a misrable life (anything from slaughterbound to trapped in a dirt yard as a pet with no purpose/proper care) I’ve even seen horses tethered with chains around their necks in front yards.. tethered to what? a cement filled tire. Yes, apparently that’s possible.
As for your story… wooodamn. Talk about getting totally skunked on a horse sale. I’d be.. .. beligerant (if I spelled it correctly). Ugh.
Great post fhotd, I want to print this out and post it on every Tack Store Bulletin Board in my area… but i believe i am far too lazy to. So instead, i’ll pin it up at my barn.. lol!
And thanks for all the positive feedback on thewonderhorse.com, I will be adding to it shortly (saw a bumper sticker that pissed me the hell off and got me rant-worthy). It’s nice that other people found these topics humorus. You’ve got a good crowd on this blog.. it seems everyone here is very horse savvy and intelligent. I don’t feel the need to over-analyze what i say less it be picked at (i.e. the other day when i talked about smacking a horse on the nose for biting.. i didn’t have to go “no i didnt beat him, no i dont just like to punch/hit horses, no i am not abusive”
Love what ya got going here fhotd, keep it up!
OT but for the locals and those of you who love Mustangs:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/1421977070.html
That little mare was found running loose on Ft. Lewis and no one claimed her. We believe we know where she came from and that she was set loose on purpose.
My friend has put all the weight back on her and donors have ensured her teeth are done and all vet work is up to date. Feet are good. She is sweet natured, sound, broke and needs a good home so please consider taking a look if you need a smaller trail horse.
It’s all about proportions, not just height. Ideally, you’re looking for proportion within the individual horse in terms of conformation, and then also between that horse and its proposed rider. The rider who is well proportioned to his/her mount will be more influential, balanced and likely more successful in terms of performance received than the small rider on a large horse, or the large rider on a small horse.
In the former case, you run the risk of being the equivalent of a flea on a rhino’s ass (Why can’t I half halt my horse with my seat?) and in the latter you run the risk of nailing the horse to the ground with your body weight (Why won’t he lift his wither?).
Admittedly, in dressage there has historically been a real bias toward large horses in the scoring (although, I will say, that I think that situation is improving slowly). But there are many smaller horses with proportionate riders in the dressage arena who outperform their larger counterparts every day in terms of quality of gait, balance, true bend and back to front connection. In most other disciplines, however, I think performance trumps size generally speaking. In those cases, it comes down to a matter of did your horse jump the jump or not? Did your horse cut the cow or not? Did your horse cover the distance or not? A certain height scale is far less a prerequisite to being competitive.
Part of the reason I like vertically smaller horses is that I am a vertically smaller human. On a small horse I can feel my center of balance more easily, and can give more effective aids with fairly invisible cues as opposed to hauling on reins or whacking/spurring – which, sorry, has been my experience more often than not when riding a lot of warmbloods or other 16.2HH toppers. Unless it’s a naturally sensitive horse attentive to the rider, it’s a lot more work to get noticed by those guys.
When I lean in or out of the circle on a horse under 16HH, he pretty much has to think about what I’m doing, because I’m going to be mechanically affecting HIS balance to a much greater degree. Just due to physics and gravity alone. When I put my leg on a smaller horse and push his hindquarter in or out, he likely feels my pressure to a greater degree because I can physically get my leg around him and down to his armpit. Not that those things can’t be done effectively on larger horses (and I have shown other people’s warmbloods successfully in the dressage arena), but I feel they are fundamentally easier from the get go when working with a horse who’s a good proportional match for me.
So I think buyers need to think in terms of practical function when buying a horse so that they get one that fits them physically and has better odds of being the partner they want under saddle – and not merely one that flatters their ego because he’s a big hulking gorgeous monster who looks good in the barn.
Zebra – You and I must be looking at some of the same horses (aka ponies). This summer a friend of mine and I drove to Olympia or Elma or some other out of the way place to look at two horses. It takes about 2 hours to get there from where we live. Each horse was supposed to be at least 15 hands. When we got there, the seller never showed up, but one of the other boarders was there and didn’t know when to be quiet. The boarder really gave us an earful on all the horses’ faults and problems.
My friend is at least 220 pounds and needs a stout horse to pack him around in the mountains. While these horses were stout (or should I say obese) the taller of the two couldn’t have been more than 14.2. She has a blown knee which we couldn’t see in the photos we were sent. The boarder said she wasn’t sound for riding. The shorter horse, while stunningly beautiful, might have been 14 hands on a good day. He was hard to catch, herd bound, and not as advertised either.
Last week I noticed these two horses are still for sale on Craigslist. Shocker? Not.
FHOTD, it was awesome when the horse was accurately described
I sold a horse one time, and I advertised him as 14.3hh paint grade gelding, awesome horse, sweet, had wonderful manners under saddle and in hand, a lady come out and rode him, liked him, took him home on trial, had him vetted, he started rearing, I offered to give a 100 percent refund and take him back, I told her bring him back and I would put thirty days on him for free to make sure nothing was missing in his training, I did everything I could, but she wound up keeping him “rearing” and all, and I know this horse, this horse was in no way a horse that would have done that unless he was provoked. I offered to come out and drive the hour and a half to her house a few days a week to ride him at her place. Anyways she kept him, and I never heard from her again.
Point being, most HONEST sellers should take back a horse if they were not as described. Things change, and appearently so does height……lol
Whenever I look at horse ads I always enter 15.2 as the smallest. I figure that way they are *actually* going to measure at 14.3 or taller. lol
Thanks for the input! It was what I thought, the grey is tall, but not 18.1 hands.
LOL when I was watching that video snaffles posted at first I was like “ah he’s not bad, people are just being mean!” then after the first jump I was like “Oh…that sucks… maybe it was just a mistake!” NOPE. Hahaha. Poor horse, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a horse that would keep jumping after that.
OT: This poor thing shes only 4! and look at her neck!
http://classifieds.pennswoods.net/classifieds/viewad.cgi?adindex=555338
Back on Topic:
Actually when getting my horse, size is the last thing I thought about other than not teeny tiny and not humongous, lets face it a mini nor a shire is getting around a bigger size xc course. Conformation is my first stopping point, because I can’t have my eventer breaking down mid-course or fence, and this includes muscle composition, bone density, non-training stamina ect. then I go to personality and train-ability. I dont want a sour puss that I have to fight with all the time but I still want something that will continue to give me a challenge and I wont get bored with.
Yeah, I guess these folks who have a 15hh (or shorter) horse they advertise as 17hh figure you’ll wear your coke bottle glasses and believe the height hype OR you’ll get out there and fall in love with Lil Bit and forget about your dream of a fancy big horse.
I’ve seen some horses that ARE 18hh (and not drafts), but they usually measure 15hh at the CROUP, which means they sport a killer dorsal fin. OR they wear bell boots and bar shoes on all four feet and cannot be kept sound. The world’s tallest man and woman cannot walk around without help either.
I like my horses 16hh-16.2hh. Good size. Good range. Fits ME and my long legs, and the horses tend to be athletic and sound. Good things too.
This topic just makes me so glad that we do centrimetres! My Rowan is 150cm, which is a bit on the small side for me (I’m 175cm) but Welsh Cobs just don’t come much bigger. I don’t like the giants, 165cm would be about max for me I think (if I were ever to get a non cob, which is not all that likely) too much trouble getting on when they’re bigger than that, plus the small ones tend to be hardier, is my experience.
I’m Dutch, and people here tend to be so tall that they’ve been breeding the horses bigger and bigger too – I’ve seen horses under 175cm referred to as small horses! (helps to explain that officially, everything up to 156.5cm is a pony here. We have an E pony category here because a LOT of teens grow out of the international pony sized categoty (up till 148cm) long before they’re 18.
Anyway. Metric, bitchez.. metric is the bomb.
Baydemon – Do you think their tack didn’t fit and was causing the horse back pain?
This brings to mind something that happened recently at the barn I keep my OTTB at. Every horse in this barn is a Quarter Horse reiner, or pleasure horse, so my TB looks pretty massive compared to the stocky little guys he towers over. Everyone comments on the big dark horse with the bright eye and attitude that will not be ignored. I’ve always rattled off the size of 16.2, or 16.3 for his size, but one day we actually took out the measuring stick, and I feel pretty sheepish in saying I was a bit off! 15.3 is not small, but some times our own eye can play trick on us. Especially when you are blinded by love!
I love my measuring stick! Mostly, I enjoy seeing the shocked looks on people’s faces when they see how tall their horses really are. I have one horse that is a solid 15 hands, but the people I bought her from thought she was almost 16 hands… she doesn’t look big to me, at all, but I guess she does to them.
I bought a 9 month old Friesian filly a few years ago, and when I was shown the sire, they told me he was a hair under 15.3. Funny, because I could pretty comfortably put my arm around him and I’m 5’5″, so I guessed he was 15.1 (He’s German-registered, because he’s too short to be Dutch approved). Her mother probably really was the 16.1 (ish) that they claimed. My girl is 3 1/2 now, and looks ginormous, but she measures 15.1. I’m pretty thrilled that she takes after her dad, because a big Friesian would probably scare me half to death. I turn her out with my 15.3 1/2 gelding, and she looks equally as tall and big as he does, but I guess it’s because she has a periscope for a head/neck and a bubble butt, so she just looks super tall and big. I think I measure the poor dear at least once a week, because I swear she has to be taller than she is, but she’s not. I guess she’s a pocket Friesian.
Based on my experiences with using the stick on other people’s horses, though, I’d never take anybody’s word for a horse’s height. I don’t think most people mean to get it wrong, they really just don’t know.
Well speak of the devil
http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/1431619838.html
Quick auction update:
Ready Say Go has recovered well from gelding and just had his first experience of being turned out with other horses. He did great and enjoyed playing with Ace, Juliane’s other ex-stallion. It seems like he’s going to have an easy time learning to be a “normal horse.”
The black and white paint mare, #312, has had her first two rides put on her and is behaving perfectly. Calm and willing! This was a 6 year old unbroke broodmare so this is great news. She will get green broke at home and go for pro training in 2010.
I’ll do a whole post about the horses soon, with pics.
My Standardbred mare arrived a whole hand taller! I was told she was 15.3hh at the most, she got off the trailer and was 16.3hh.
Enter my all-around but aging mare, with the ROM’s to prove it. That’s long past, followed by extensive local rodeoing in her teenage years, and finally settling down as a trailhorse (as settled down as a mare who wants to RUN, RUN, RUN!) ever gets. Ok, enough bragging about my horse. Sometime ago, I decided it was time to start recruiting a suitable replacement, and I was after her particular bloodlines. I knew she’d thrown a few foals before we acquired her, so I looked into that. No luck. I expanded my search to include full sisters/brother, other closely related horses, and there was nothing. At least, nothing under $10,000! Imagine my surprise when a gelding out of my very mare popped up on Craigslist for $1,800. What a deal! There was a small picture and it was dark. My mare is 16H, and the sire was a talllll H/J-type; I knew this gelding HAD to be tall. I read the description, everything sounded good. He could cut, he could rope, he could do the games (although I noted he had no AQHA performance record). Maybe this should have brought up a red flag for something that should be of H/J variety, at the very least maybe some youth HUS action? But I was downright ecstatic. Especially when the owner told me that my mare was the reason she’d purchased this gelding. Imagine my surprise when she leads a puny Quarter Pony-looking thing out of the barn! 14H would have been an overstatement, and a butterball to boot! Somebody lacking in the nutrition department?!?
I have actually underestimated my horse’s hieght in the past. I always thought he was like 15 hds. Turns out when you stick him he is 15 hands 3 inches. Well at least I wasn’t overestimating. I was a little closer when estimating the TB mares. They are 16 hands and 16 hands 1 inch. You can really tell the difference in that one inch sometimes too. Especially if you are getting off one and getting on either of the others.
Me and my friend went out to see a gelding advertised as 15 or 16 hands. He was actually a pony, but it turned out they had measured him from his poll, not his withers!
My trainer’s mini and mine are the same height, but you’d never believe it. Stuart is SO much thicker and stockier than hers, he looks much, much taller.
Regarding the question of fascination with taller horses. I am 5’8″ and packing about 35 extra pounds. Not only would I look like a giant on anything small, but the poor horse might collapse on a long ride. Americans are getting taller and larger with each generation.
Called about a horse for my brother-in-law who at 6’6″ and 280lbs needed a big horse. Was assured that the horse was at least 16.2 and possibly bigger. “Are you SURE!!” “Oh yes, at least 16.2 and a good 1200 pounds!” Got there and she was almost 14.2 and about 900 pounds. Funny thing is that they raised Belgians! Must have thought those guys were 20 hands!
Owner of a dark bay and white stallion always advertised him as black and white. When people complained they responded with, “Well, it got you out here, didn’t it?” Didn’t understand why they had such a hard time filling his book when his former owners had to turn people away.
Last one was a pony advertised as a 13.3 hand well broke gelding. Turned out to be a 11 hand mare that was hardly halter broke. Owner said that that was what the auctioneer had said when he bought her. We bought her anyway. Couldn’t leave her with someone like that!
I am trying to find the original post about the black mare that people are trying to help. Is it the one that I sent to you at resqbt?
OT, but, has anyone else seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMiCyoRzYM
How did this person get into this show, and why did no one stop them when it was clear from the first jump that this person canNOT ride?! Just baffling!
Last year i went and looked at a pony that was advertised at 14-14.1hh. Well to my surprise when i went to go look at him he was 11-12hh. I still ended up purchasing him since he was beautiful and had an excellent temperment. 14hh and 11hh is a huge difference! I also purchased a QH gelding who was 3 years old at the time. The lady told me that he would mature at least 16hh, he is 10 years old now, and sticked at 15hh on the dot.
re FHOTD:
“OT but for the locals and those of you who love Mustangs:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/1421977070.html”
I did an evaluation ride for this mare, she’s very sweet and has a ton of personality. She was very spunky when I was on – granted, she was in heat and hadn’t been ridden for several months, but I wouldn’t recommend her for a beginner until she has been reevaluated after some work. She does have some good training though; she neckreined, set her head properly, and went over a teeny-tiny jump when asked although I doubt she had been jumped before. She also had very nice springy gaits, I think she might do well as a low level dressage/eventer pony, maybe Pony Club? I’m considering taking her as a project for the winter, but hemming and hawing as that would take up the stall I was planning on having for my future eventing project.
To Sophie’s comment about Friesians. I have been shopping for a Friesian for 10 years and discovered a long time ago the Friesian world does not measure their breed the same as the rest of the world. Instead of measuring at the apex of the wither bone they measure them at the highest point where the unique Friesian trait of the neck has a dent above the wither where the neck then ‘appears’ to start due to their high head set.
It used to frustrate me to no end until recently i had this measuring anomaly confirmed at numerous keuring inspections where it was witnessed this is actually where the judges are officially measuring and NOT at the wither bone apex. Why a country does not measure like the rest of the world is beyond my understanding.
So…my lovely honest 15.2hh and growing 3 and half year old gelding is currently 16hh by Friesian world measuring standards but i do truly hope he does get to be an honest 16hh. I’ve never wanted to be a height snob but i am 6 feet tall myself and all leg so currently my ankles are below his belly in my dressage saddle. And yes, he does look bigger than 15.2hh.
Thanks for the laugh..that would happen to me, they would unload the horse and I’d say, “What the F is that? ” we have that kind of luck, we usually try to eyeball anything that we buy..it’s Murphy’s Law around here, all of the time!
PoloPal & The Wonder Horse:
Am in South Carolina too!!!! Goose Creek area. I’m a military transplant from WA who managed to haul 4 horses from WA to SC to VA and back to SC, all in the span of 8 years. I totally agree with what you are saying about people who seem to have “an 18 hand Arabian stallion” and when I finally see the horse he’s barely 14.2…..did they read The Black Stallion way too much as a kid?
I adopted a !6H warmblood….he was more like barely 15h. He has since matured to almost 15.3 is is well bodied so I fit him just fine. But you should have seen him when he arrived. Quite a shock. It didn’t really matter too much as I was adopting him as a fun horse so ultimately the size wasn’t a problem. But I was told the vet had said he was at least 16h, so they figured he’d know. Apparently vet’s eyes see the extra four inches too! *lol*
When I was looking for a dressage horse years ago I traveled some 300 miles to see horses at a farm where they were all over 16h. When we got there, the woman began showing us one fugly Appaloosa after another all only about 14.h. I was in a sea of ponies! We eventually found a sales barn with some super nice Thoroughbreds instead. Over time, I think I ended up getting about five horses from them…all lovely and exactly as advertised. *G*
I had a bit of the opposite experience with my “middle” boy, a Thoroughbred. When I adopted him, he was about 15.2h or so. Well, he grew, and grew, and grew and is now nearly touching 17h. I need a three step mounting block just to reach the stirrup.
endurostorm:
Thats similar to how AMHA Miniature Horses are measured too! If measured at the withers, many would NOT qualify as type A so I think someone back when the breed was up-and-coming decided “Hey lets measure just infront of the withers in the divit where the mane starts so he/she will pass”. My Miniature measures at 33″ when measured by AMHA standards (yes he was measured by a AMHA certified judge), but if measured by regular height standards, he measures 35″. I had no idea until a breeder told me to have him re-measured at a show. I did and was just as baffled as you were. Go figure, but feel comfort that you are not alone in measuring your horse!!!!!
That gray TB’s full body pic is tampered with, too- see the straight line behind his shoulder? I was wondering what was up with his withers, and the right third of the pic doesn’t line up.
And here’s a question- do you measure at the highest point on the withers? Like I’ve seen people measure at the withers straight above the leg, and others just pick the tallest point on the withers. And what do you do if it’s mutton-withered and there’s a lot of fat on either side? lol.
And yet another example of pictures you shouldn’t use in a sale ad:
http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/1427143589.html
You know what cracks me up personally? My purebred arabian gelding is, if we’re using the standard of sticking with shoes on, 15.3 hh. His sire was big and he’s been well fed. At shows and out on rides people are always commenting on his size, which I generally report at 15.2, because barefoot and trimmed, that’s about right, and I don’t want to boast, because I’d take a hand off in a heart beat for better legs, if I could make that trade. I don’t want people to think I’m one of those people who will ignore any fault as long as the horse is big, he’s a gelding for a reason! But the funny part is the look on people’s faces as they realize that my guy is the height they truly believe and/or tell people their 14.2 or 14.3 horse is.
Truthfully though, I find him a bit big, and I wish his conformation was better. He’s a horse ridden and shown more for personality than talent, if you know what I mean. Not dynamic but steady and kind. If I were buying a horse though, I think 14.3 or 15.0 for an arabian is perfect for me. My husband is a farrier though, and he prefers big horses; if they’re well behaved they take a lot of strain off his back and knees!