Told ya so…and I still think we should just sell colorization services!
Oct 18 2009
So, the “tobiano” Arabian, RWR Sonora, got her papers yanked. They determined she was NOT a purebred. No, really???
http://www.arabianbreeders.net/Forums/Just-phone-AHA-t29899.html
Now let’s see if the original breeder gets the suspension they rightfully deserve for this nonsense.
My original blog entry…this is addressed toward the bottom:
http://www.fuglyblog.com/2009/i-thought-we-all-learned-our-colors-in-kindergarten/
They still haven’t corrected their web page. I’m hoping they HAVE done something by now about those long toes!
http://www.shatormararabians.com/rwrsonora.html
If you want a tobiano Arabian, they have these amazing things called HALF Arabians which can be legitimately tobiano and much prettier than the fauxrabian filly.
If you want to make yourself a tobiano Arabian, here you go. This is an APHA stallion, Leo Dakota GB, who is known to cross well on Arabian mares and is homozygous for tobiano, so you will get tobiano every time. I like this horse. He has great bone, great feet, he’s athletic and they describe him as having a very sensible and quiet disposition. Here is a pic of his world champion half-Arabian son:
http://www.ctarabians.com/jigsaw.html
Now, when you can produce or buy something that pretty and high quality that most certainly appears to be a tobiano Arabian, WITHOUT lying, scamming or breaking your breed association’s rules, why not do it? Why did this silly incident even happen?
(By the way, while they were color testing, they also determined he’s not a carrier of lethal white. See, you CAN test for the important stuff TOO.)
Just play by the rules – you’re not going to get away with it anyway if you don’t. You just look like a moron too stupid to understand that DNA will out you.
65 comments to “Told ya so…and I still think we should just sell colorization services!”
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Thats such a pretty stud, I’ve seen to many arabians crossed with stock horses that end up just looking funky and like their parts don’t go together. My friend has 1 gelding I think is really cute, Arab x QH. but that guy got the best qualities from both breeds and it meshed very well. nice to see that not all crossed result in something bad.
But they wanted a FULL Arabian, not a Half! And if one looks too dumb to know that DNA testing will prove the scam, one just may be too dumb to know that.
Oh dear. I have Arabians and Half Arabians, and I love color, but COLOR has got to be the last thing you look for, the icing on the cake. I always ask myself, “Would I buy this horse if it was a solid color?” Unless the answer is yes, don’t – that is DO NOT NOT NOT – get the horse.
And the idiot who lied and got caught should be banned for life from ownership by the AHA.
I would not want to admit that I bred that poor little mare. She looks as if her parents should have never been born, must less bred to each other.
I really don’t get the ‘colour’ thing at all. I’ve ridden a great pinto and would have another horse like him in a heartbeat – but because of his character, not his colour. Plain bay, grey, chestnut, whatever – I *so* could not care less. Sure, I have preferences, and I don’t want another seal brown TB because I’m scared I’ll always make unfair comparisons, but this obsession with colour is, IMHO, ridiculous.
And why hasn’t the horse in your advert been adopted yet? Now there’s a nicely put together, well-schooled horse who looks immensely useful. Wrong continent for me, but I wouldn’t throw him out of my pasture. (Hah! I see he has been adopted, they just haven’t updated their advert.) Plain chestnut. Indefinitely nicer.
I just caught that too – Woody actually HAS been adopted. I need to create some new ads – Woody is adopted, Chocolate Truffle is adopted, and I believe Bombay is adopted too!
What makes me giggle about situations like this is that I kind of see what these breeders are doing. They want to go down in history as having “The First ______” Something noteworthy that they don’t really have to -work- at getting (well, except for breeding mares like crazy hoping for the first Tobiano Arabian, or Brindle Appaloosa, etc.)
In the end, some of them get what they want even though they achieved it in a careless way. But in most cases, they go down in history as “the dumbass who tried to make everyone believe that Tobiano Grade Horse was a Purebred Arabian”.
I don’t know jack crap about Arabians, but i overall know what the look should be (we all see the pictures of Khemosabi, Imperial Baarez, etc).. and, lets just say that she -was- a purebred Tobiano Arabian. She looks.. NOTHING.. like what i’d expect an Arabian to look like. Is it really worth achieving a color goal if you completely BASTARDIZE the conformation standards of the breed? Can you imagine if that filly was a Purebred and they tried to take her to Scottsdale Arabian Show? She wouldn’t even come close to placing amongst the horses that were bred for their ABILITY and CONFORMATION as opposed to the ZOMG KULLR!!11one!
Glad this thing got dismissed, these people tried to pass a little grade filly as a Purebred Tobiano Arabian and in the end had their name dragged through the dirt and lost ANY reputation they even begun to have. I’m glad they got what they deserved.
If you want to go down in history, DO SOMETHING GREAT. dont just try to be “The First”. Trust me. You’ll be happier with yourself, your horse, and your business if you apply your skill to do something to be remembered for. Provide free lessons for underprivledged kids… Volunteer with a Rescue (lend your time as a horse hauler to get horses away from Slaughter)… Try to schedule a charitable horse show… these are all things that will get you positive attention AND make you feel good.
(end rant)
WonderHorse, that was a GREAT rant and so true.
That filly would not win at a 4-H show much less Scottsdale or any other kind of breed show.
I was wandering around her site–Everything from this year needs FOOD!
The black/white stallion looks nothing like his photo shown in the magazine..He needs about 200 lbs..
Yikes, I just took a look at their web site. Not a peep about any of their stallions’ show records.The young colt that they are “retaining for their breeding program” could be a poster child for FUGLY. Scary conformation to say the least. This farm is a classic example of breeding for color first, conformation second, and Arabian type dead last. I saw conformational flaws that you only see in text books or at the low end auctions – double yikes. I breed and show Arabian pintos myself and I like a pretty spotted coat too, but the judges are a whole lot more concerned about conformation and movement than they are that your horse is an unusal color or pattern. If that’s the best feature your horse has, that’s not alot of brag about. $1000 stud fees on a horse that I can’t see from their web site that has ever won a thing? $15,000 on likewise unshown sale horses? Six year old horses being sold with “potential”???? Another that they say “wants to be a Grand Prix” horse but hasn’t even been shown yet??? Oh my! My Arabian pinto stallion was multiple world championships in multiple disciplines, even championships in competitive trail – guess it’s time to raise his stud fee. Go figure!
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=8353944&cat=106&lpid=2
Couldn’t find the email…but can I say WOW!
WTF is this? This is an example of what they breed?? Yuck!
http://www.shatormararabians.com/stmsiriusmagic.html
Thank you fhotd! I agree, that wouldn’t fly at Backyard shows/4-H/etc.
peg4x4, that piqued my curiosity and i browsed their site as well. I know this blog author always totes how IMPORTANT grooming is for showing off your horses whether they be for sale or for stud.
That Moonlight Money Maker (can i call him Moonlight-get-me-money-cuz-yer-colorful?) horse does need to gain a good bit of weight. And, again, I know jack crap about Arabians.. but an observation, if i may: Did anyone see the video on this horse? I skipped to the middle of it (since it was just a freaking photo collage at the beginning) and they were showcasing his trot… that.. that trot isn’t of any High Performance Show Quality Arabian i’d ever seen. What really bothers me, is that his gait is exceptionally flat, there was minimal zomg-tail-coil-prancing (if any), and his head reminds me of my Spotted Saddle Horse’s head.. there’s no real definition to it. I didn’t watch but 30 seconds of the video because i wasn’t going to waste 7 minutes of my Sunday watching it, so maybe i missed “the good stuff”.
One of the other horses has BIG TIME dreadlocks in the mane. Yeah, i want to pay big money to breed my fine mares to a dirty stallion with a dread mane. Who doesnt?! (sarcasm)
And, looking at the website and the pictures of the filly.. for them supposedly having ZOMG 1st Tobiano Arabian everz!11 they sure didn’t groom her or take care of her. There wasn’t one decent conformation shot in the whole lot of pictures. She was filthy, had on an old nylon halter, needed weight, and needed her feet done. What a way to treat a horse that they thought was so zomg_speshul.
fhotd, I did look at that pinto arabian stud that you posted.. my GOD. see, THAT’S what it’s supposed to be. Look at that.. you can just look at the horse, even as a colt, and go “Yeah, that’s an arabian!” B-e-a-utiful!
Again, they wanted to do something to get themselves remembered and by god, they’ve stamped their name into AHA history for at least a little while ;D
I agree 1000000% with the first part of this, but that stallion… um… if that’s the BEST photo they have of him jumping….
NO THANKS.
(and they’re also crossing him on Friesian mares? *weeps*)
I remember back in the day when some Arabian folks would look down their noses at owners of other breeds (inferior to the Arabian in these folks’ hoity opinions) and discuss with GREAT disdain how the ARABIAN was the OLDEST breed and all the others were mixes or crosses. My opinion, which I often expressed, was that yes, the Arabian WAS the oldest breed, but that OTHER breeds were the result of trying to IMPROVE on the original. Sort of like, “We don’t drive around in Model A cars anymore. People improved on them.”
Now, I LOVE Arabians. I love HORSES, but I did get a perverse kick out of making these breed blind folks look a bit slack-jawed at the audacity of someone like me (who owned a QUARTER HORSE, like EEUUWWW!!) to say something so profane.
That said, there are good and bad examples of horses everywhere–in every breed, gender, and color combination. Being put together WELL and being athletic are two qualities I look for (and must have) in a horse for me. My current guy was over at the knee and has a roach back — the knees improved with proper and correct shoeing, and the back is helped by adequate muscling (correct diet) and acupuncture treatments as well as regular chiropractic adjustments and dressage training. He has excellent ground manners and a willingness to please that humbles me to this day. And he TRUSTS me. That is even better.
Color? Well, if that had been my prime directive, I would not have given my guy the time of day. Wasn’t a fan of chestnut with white. Today? I hardly look at anything else. Never say never, but as Al2payne and The Wonder Horse said — better than I — color is the LAST thing you should look for.
“Glad this thing got dismissed, these people tried to pass a little grade filly as a Purebred Tobiano Arabian and in the end had their name dragged through the dirt and lost ANY reputation they even begun to have. I’m glad they got what they deserved.”
Actually, she’s a 3/4 Arabian — whether they manage to get her registered at this point is another issue.
Her actual dam is a half-arabian and registered as such. Her sire is a purebred and is her sire. As to who should be disciplined, that’s part of the fun: the breeder’s signature was apparently forged, as he had passed away by the date it was supposedly signed. The person who now owns the filly is not the one who created the problem — and may be the biggest personal loser, depending on whether she purchased her with the caveat of getting a refund if the papers were pulled.
None of which makes her interesting for any reason other than color.
Sonora might make a cute little 4-H project or Pony Club mount for a child, but she honestly doesn’t have anything to add to the gene pool. Poor little thing, she’s sure not built like much at all …the 10-year old version of me would have loved her, but by 12 I’d have understood that she’s not the finest specimen of anything. The way her markings lie emphasize her weak conformation. She’s an example why there are few tobiano halter horses with the 50/50 markings—the dark markings mess with the eye, and when there’s poor conformation, it looks 100 times worse with the spots, if they are in the wrong place.
And remember, I am usually blinded by the tobiano spots. Nice to hear that the Arabian horse registry didn’t take this sitting down, they have some integrity. I would happily have anything from Fairview Arabians in BC, but not this little mare. It’s not her fault, though.
It will be interesting to see what kind of sanctions come to pass, if any. If I’m understanding those very long linked threads from the Arabian message board, the person who is supposed to be her breeder is long gone, dead before the mare was conceived. Am I following this correctly?
Every horse sharing a home with poor little Sonora needs lots of hay and grain and perhaps some dental work and worming. What a skinny bunch of horses!
OK, normally I’d refrain from responding to something like this since I’m not a horse owner, never have been and probably won’t ever be lucky enough to join that club- I’m just someone who enjoys looking at and reading about horses. I’ve always thought Arabians were the most beautiful of all horses and spent much time looking at and drooling over them. Say what you want about Arabs and Egyptians (the people), but they have bred the finest horses in the world.
This isn’t one of them and it’s glaringly obvious even to my highly uneducated eye. I don’t know diddly shit about horse coat color patterns or the genes behind them, so someone saying they have a purebred tobiano Arabian doesn’t mean anything to me. Buuuuut…that lumpy and unspectacular body is so not Arabian, though, and what about those HAIRY FETLOCKS?! You ever seen a purebred Arabian with feathering like a draft horse before? Me either!
What I find so puzzling about this is the Shatormar people should know what a pure Arabian should and should not look like, yet they bought this obviously mixed-breed mare as a purebred? Why?!
Good lord, do they have anything at all that is broke? I didn’t look through every one of the mare’s pages, but I didn’t see a single under-saddle picture for any of the studs or sale horses!
And the stallion’s video… yeah. I want to breed to something that spends its days in an under-sized round pen + trailer shelter combination. Especially when the only talents showcased are screaming at mares and buck-kicking at the cameraman.
I board at a place that was trying for the elusive pintabian. which is 99% or higher percentage of arabian blood.
She has retired from breeding but we have some very nice pinto arabians.
THere are purebred pinto ish arabs, most are from Khemosabi breeding such as Khartoon Khlassic and his son Pikasso..
http://www.khartoonkhlassic.com/Sabino%20Get.htm
Wonderful horses and it is interesting that pinto does crop up in a lot of breeds.
At the barn we also have a 3/4 arab who looks like a quarab and is a grulla to boot.. and is a pinto breedstock, but registered half arab.
Carol
Yay the Arabian Horse Association made the right call! I wish Arabian did come in tobiano, but there’s always the Half-Arab. They market them as designer arabians, you can show at all the Arabian shows, they come in all the fancy colors, the only thing they can’t do is have purebred babies.
I feel bad for all those skinny fugly arabians on that site. If they are selling them at those prices they should be able to afford hay and wormer. Does feeding them affect the color?
I love a good paint job, but if they aren’t good for anything…what’s the point if you lose all type and conformation? I bred a black tobiano half arabian for my own use and I love her. It took forever to find a stallion with color that had good enough conformation and movement. My filly’s half paint but she has more type than those Shatomara horses.
I think that Leo Dakota stallion is cute too. His owners seem to know what they are doing. I’d love one of their babies.
If they can dye dogs pink and to look like pandas, they can make a horse version. I’d actually pay for that. “Ever see a real leopard appaloosa?”
Did anyone notice that geldings are non-existent on her website? Everything is a stallion or stud colt. Don’t even get me started on her Sabinos… ugly, piggy-eyed… Check out Mocha… Stallion material? Where is the gelding bus when you need it? He’s so over at the knee and uphill it looks like he’s going to collapse in on himself. I wonder if these people actually sell anything. -sigh- I guess there’s always the Krazy Kolor KoolAid drinkers that see beauty in fuglies like these. -headdesk-
I think when they say he wants to do Grand Prix, they mean this:
He saw them girls on the other side of his fence and they were just egging him on to come on over and get a little jiggy with it.
So he sailed over the 3 foot fence with perfect form and didn’t even hit his dangly-part on the way over.
That takes skillz.
So what are they going to do at shows? Park mares in heat on the other side of every fence?
Geez.
Monizuki – That’s gotta be my favorite horse ad of all time! If it wasn’t put up as a joke, well that dude takes himself WAY too seriously! My favorite line, “You can do anything on these two studs!”
Wa-ha-ha!
If you want to see some fugly queer horses, look here: http://www.elementsarabians.com/
I’d just like to add that ALL of the foals on their site look like they need a good WORMING…but maybe they’re breeding kolorful, fugly conformation parasites, too………
I only followed the link to the photos of the chestnut colt w/blaze and stockings. That colt is starving. There are pics of him that show his spine sticking up. Of course he looks like crap! Who can tell if he’s any kind of decent when he’s a rack of bones! If he was in someone else’s barn and was receiving solid care, he might be a decent Arabian for some kid. I didn’t see any other pages – he was enough for me!
Oh yes, and WORMY to boot.
A quick thought on Krazy Kolors and Fugly Horses.
My second horse was a schoolmaster Appy mare – well, she’d had a few years off and we had some incidents getting her back into training, but that’s not the point. When we went to look at her the first time I wasn’t expecting anything to come of it, the only Appy I’d seen before was a fugly roan with no mane or tail that only went Western (I was in Pony Club). I was 10 and I wanted a cute little pony, like the one who’s owners changed their mind at the last minute. When I got there the mare was definitely not a looker – pot bellied, Appy eyes with freckles and whites showing, and PINK. Technically she’s a red dun, but she’s the closest thing to pink I’ve ever seen in a horse. I don’t have a picture available at the moment, this is the closest I could find: http://www.donkeys.net/images/Avery01a.jpg
That plus the big belly earned her the nickname “Pig.” Oh, and her blanket looks like someone tossed a bucket full of holes over her back with white paint in it, it’s all over the place. Her conformation isn’t *too* bad, nothing that prevents her from functioning for basic riding, but nothing you’d want passed on: short neck, upright shoulder, etc.
Well, I still have yet to put my finger on it, but for some reason me and this mare just clicked. She’s a typical grouchy mare with typical Appy stubbornness, but I’ve loved her since that first day, and she taught me a lot before being retired due to deteriorating health (she’s still alive and being maintained as well as can be, but is no longer ridden and her time is dwindling).
After that, I have never judged a horse until I’ve gotten to know it, in terms of both personality and ability. I’ll look at the conformation, but if I’m not planning to compete seriously I’ll take a fugly with a good mind and attitude over a beautiful TB that’s out of it’s mind any day. But I certainly won’t consider breeding it!
OT: If you need some new rescue banners designed I’d be happy to help! Sent an email to resqtb about a week and a half ago about volunteer design work. Screen name links to my portfolio.
Zebradreams07, your story of “clicking” with that Appy mare: A vet who answers “horse health” questions in our local paper had a question not long ago about the importance of the pre-purchase examination — why have it and what all should it include. She made a comment that I thought was very interesting. It was, do not take the prospective purchase home with you for a trial period. She gave several reasons. The first (and most obvious) was that if something should happen (or not), the horse being on your property or under your care would be your responsibility. The owner could (rightfully or not) claim that the horse was sound or fine when it left his/her place and NOW there is a problem. Therefore, you could be responsible.
The other reason the vet mentioned was one I had not thought of — if you take the horse home and BOND with it or get otherwise attached, if the vet check indicates problems, you might find it difficult to send the horse back.
I’ve known people who ignored the results of the pre-purchase examination because they had found “the horse of their dreams” that indeed turned into (you guessed it) their worst nightmare. One woman was so prone to picking the wrong horse she ended up with several sprained ankles, a cracked sacrum, ruptured colon (that little jaunt cost $65,000 and 12 days in CCU) — and this was just one horse!
That said, most of us know ourselves best. If you tend to think with your heart rather than your head, follow that newspaper vet’s advice. More often than not, you’ll be better off. (This is why I do NOT go to auctions. I know for a fact I’d end up taking EVERYTHING home. Not a good plan when time and treasure (and room ;o) are limited. I COULD go to the auction and stay outside, keeping an eye on trucks and trailers, ready to haul something purchased (by someone else) somewhere else. But I would be a basket case if I stepped inside.
Heck, I cry just thinking about going to visit rescues — I weep at the dog pound.
Leo Dakota is a beauty. I do not ride English, so do not do any jumping, but I do know, you shouldn’t be looking down when you ride, especially when you are jumping. Every picture of him riding has him looking down!! My instructor always tells me ” look where you want to go!” Come on buddy keep your eyes UP.
An interesting thing, they are stating this horse is purebred and simply a sabino….
REALLY???
she is a pinto!!
http://www.elementsarabians.com/allie.html
And they are claiming this one is a rabacino…
REALLY??!!!!
http://www.elementsarabians.com/striker.html
OMG, it’s been a while since I looked at the Shatormar or however it’s spelled website. What everyone has said, doubled!
They clearly “see” nothing but the color — in fact, it appears they have sold most everything with anything resembling a hindquarter and are keeping those that have no engine. Money Maker looks TERRIBLE. He was never what one would call a class Arabian, but at least he used to be kept in good condition.
Poor colts will never have a chance: the most expensive “economy” in horsekeeping is cutting back on the best possible nutrition to weanlings/yearlings. They can *never* get back that period of bone building, even if their lives aren’t shortened by parasite damage.
Another case of someone who needs to stop spending money on new horses and instead spend it on the horses they have, feed/hay/vet/farrier — and decent facilities for them!
alphamare,
Thank you for the correction
I hadn’t followed this story closely enough!
As for who should be disciplined: Definately the person who attempted to register her as a Purebred. But, equally, shame on her current owners for A) The lack of groceries they are putting into their herd. B) Not investigating her coloration/pedigree further. If it was me, and I had someone trying to sell me a Champagne colored….. Appaloosa (since i am not sure if that’s happened yet) I’d definately investigate the pedigree, get in contact with the ApHC, ask if this is possible for the breed and -WHY- it is… etc.. but then again, i am an inquisitive one! LOL!
Anywhoo.. as for putting blame on the current owners.. if they truly weren’t the ones that registered her.. then they should only be punished for their ignorance and neglect ;D (kidding). Though being brought into the public eye like this… to where everyone has seen their “perfect” Arabian horses that they are breeding (not for color right?! there is no mention of color ANYWHERE on the site! (SARCASM)).. the conditions their horses are in… and their stupidity for buying this filly without questioning her coloration… i think they’ve gotten their fair share of punishment. No credible AHA member will buy horses from them (though i doubt they would have even before this fiasco after seeing what they’re breeding.)
I just hope they start feeding their horses… and gelding them
!
You really want to see something? Go to the pinto arab site and watch the vidio of the colts playing. Pay special attention to the fallen tree limbs and the COLLAPSED HOUSE in the pen!!
better directions-go to site,hit for sale,go to the bottom of the page,vidio “Yearling colts playing April 2009. I can’t believe the junk.
@dooflotchie – Buuuuut…that lumpy and unspectacular body is so not Arabian, though, and what about those HAIRY FETLOCKS?! You ever seen a purebred Arabian with feathering like a draft horse before? Me either!
Winter hair. You can see how shaggy the rest of her is. They all get it, and most of them get it shaved off for shows, along with their ear hair, nose hairs, guard hairs… Even my mini gets the super hairy fetlocks in the wintertime.
The least they could do is FEED them. Nothing spells BYB worse than skinny looking horses they think are GOOD. Words like “elegant” and “graceful” do not even apply. Poor horses…
Khemosabi would roll over in his grave if he knew that they had a grandson of his in that condition and promoting him for stallion…he’s not even GELDING quality…poor thing…..
Color is great, but people forget about the drawbacks sometimes. Horses with pink skin and blue eyes get sunburned easily! Even a pink nose can be a problem. White hooves can also be more fragile.
Grey horses are subject to melanomas, which can impact a horse’s health.
I remember back in the 1970s when everyone wanted a black Arabian, and there were few that were actually decent looking. It’s a rare color, too, and people bred for it to the detriment of the breed. I recall they had a pretty hard time finding a good horse for the Black Stallion movie (although Cass Ole was great).
Thirty years ago, even a belly spot on an Arab was something you hid behind the barn. It’s amazing people were able to find those sabino Arabs and start breeding them again. And don’t forget, the Paint horse registry was started because the QH people wanted nothing to do with spots either. So color wasn’t always something people wanted — but I think palomino was always popular.
In the end, pretty is as pretty does, as the old saying goes.
OT: Has anyone ever dealt with Blue Ridge Rescue in Blue Grass, Iowa. Please let me know if this is a good equine rescue group.
OFF TOPIC – another “freebie” on Dreamhorse and this one is registered and unfortunately has been breeding more foals. Some people really do not understand about kill buyers and their bogus lines or worse what happens when these horses go to the auction. I think “Nine Mile Falls, Washington” which is the location of this registered Saddlebred might be in the Spokane area? Anyone want to contact the owner or agent if that is who is listed AND BE NICE and explain what can happen and suggest RESPECTFULLY that they might want to at least ask $600 to keep this horse away from the slaughter recruiters? By the way hate mail does NOT work, the goal is to upgrade the horse and keep him off the truck to Mexico because at a zero dollars asking price that is exactly where he will be headed!
lucknow elvyn magic
Dream Horse ID: 1475488
Sorry to interrupt, but Wow – heard about free or low priced horses down in the states due to economic times…first time I’ve seen it up in Canada. Usually horses are about quadruple the cost of same horse in US…
http://princegeorge.kijiji.ca/c-pets-livestock-for-sale-15-3-hh-11-y-o-Hannovarian-tb-mare-W0QQAdIdZ161770308
You know, I’m a little bothered by the fact that these people only live about 1/2 hour from me. They list their address on the site, and FYI that area is all like 1-3 acre plots. Gives a whole new meaning to the term “backyard” breeders. I love how they’re all about the Sport Horses, too. A Haflinger sport horse idea? Are you shitting me?
I sooooo want to know who these people are. I reverse looked up their phone number, but it was no name I’d ever heard of before.
Can ANYONE help this poor horse?
http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/1427218623.html
This makes me want to CRY!!!!!
>>Poor colts will never have a chance: the most expensive “economy†in horsekeeping is cutting back on the best possible nutrition to weanlings/yearlings. They can *never* get back that period of bone building, even if their lives aren’t shortened by parasite damage.< <
So true. And sometimes their lives are ended by parasite damage. When SAFE took in those Jean Elledge horses, not all of the babies made it despite immediate vet care. They just had too much internal damage. How awful is that?
Don’t breed what you can’t feed – why do people have trouble with this?
Drillrider – gone by the time I looked. Apparently the feedback was not so good.
>>I think palomino was always popular< <
Trigger.
I need someone to put an old swaybacked red mare in the movies and make her famous so I can rescue 50 more of those like I’d like to, and then they’d be adoptable.
FYI my old swaybacked red mare goes to her new home this week. Hey, maybe they are adoptable!
WOW! I thought that was a Paint horse at first! How could anyone believe THAT could be a purebred?!?!?!
“An interesting thing, they are stating this horse is purebred and simply a sabino….
REALLY???
she is a pinto!!
http://www.elementsarabians.com/allie.html
Wnnahrse says: October 19, 2009 at 7:04 amAnd they are claiming this one is a rabacino…
REALLY??!!!!
http://www.elementsarabians.com/striker.html”
Yep, they really are “just sabino”, not tobiano or frame. And they are purebred.
Sabino can produce white “to the ears” — google HAAP Snowy River or R-Khasper. The breeding behind these horses often involves multiple generations of sabino x sabino. Some are better horses than others, and some are better Arabians than others, but they are purebreds, and there’s nothing impossible about their markings. Sabino is, shall we say, a *versatile* pattern (since it is multi-factored and may results from *at least* three different genes, possibly more).
Off topic, but can someone in So. Oregon PLEASE get this poor kid outta there? He’s been popping up on CL for a few months, that’s an older picture (I shudder to think what he looks like now). We tried to get a local rescue involved when he was first posted, and obviously that fell through. My barn in full, otherwise I’d take him.
http://medford.craigslist.org/grd/1427577152.html
Kind of OT, but in line with crazy breeding… Was invited out to a friend of a friend’s house to see their Kyoot new filly. I say sure and head over. Get there and come to find out that the icelandic/quarter pony/whoknowswhat was bread (intentionally mind you) to a fugly mini stud. They actuallu laughed when the explained they had to “back her up to a hill so he could get her”… unreal. I asked what their intention was… what did they hope to do with the baby & they just wanted to see what would come out… so so so sad. At least they aren’t starving/lacking vet/hoof care…
***actually***
Horsefever — I have a grand-daughter of one of the horses who played The Black in the movie. She’s awesome. Maybe someday I’ll get to mount from the waves and race down a beach with her like Alec. *dreams*
If I ever get to make movies I’m gonna make one where a family gets a scruffy and thin old horse off a kill truck, feeds it right, gets it tuned up at a good trainer’s, and then the horse comes through as an awesome kid’s horse and best friend. The horse retires at the end and they keep feeding her cause she earned a good retirement and they love her even if she can’t be ridden. And all the kids will wear helmets.
Maybe a children’s book would be more likely to come true–illustrations I can do. *plots*
I’m glad AHA got their act together – took a while, but well they did it.
I feel a little sorry for Sonora, she’s a cute little pony and who know what will happen with her now. It should have been obvious to Shartomar that she could not be purebred, especially since they claim to be well-known, experienced Sabino breeders. Their horses are in horrible shape and should not reproduce.
I believe that Moonlight Money Maker (who came up with that name?) isn’t purebred either and since they got away with it once, they just thought they’ll do it again. And well if by any chance he is purebred, he should still be gelded since he does not resemble an Arabian at all.
Lastly I looked at both the Shatomar and the Elements website and they don’t even compare! At least the elements horses all seem to be well fed and cared for. And the horses do resemble Arabians. So I’m not sure how anyone could say that Elements is worse than Shatomar.
I knew from the beginning that she WAS NOT a purebred Arabian. Just look at her build, her head her face … NOT arabian-like at all. Nevermind there are no purebred tobiano Arabians. Didn’t need any DNA to prove that. Oh well I guess some people did need it proven and now the people who need to be reprimanded should be. It is fraud no matter how you slice it.
I looked at the “elementsarabian” site and was amazed at the markings..Couldn’t believe that was sabino! So I went to the paint horse site,looked at the sabino pattern that they lump in with overo.. Yes,real sabino pattern,even that roan stallion is sabino… Learn something new every day!
On the other “paint arab” she looks a lot like the paint stallion on site..Did they raise her or buy her?
PaintedPonyGrrl….. I don’t know how old you are, so you may not remember Snowman. I was just a young girl when Snowman made his debut in the Jumping World. He is a rags to riches horse, bought off the meat truck… literally for $80 and turned into a one of the greatest jumpers of his time.
Here is a link to his story: http://www.showjumpinghalloffame.net/inductees/snowman.shtml
I have the book that was written about him filled with pictures of the deLeyer child hanging all over his legs, washing him and brushing him to him free style jumping (he wouldn’t stay in his pasture as he loved to jump the fence) and pictures of Mr Harry deLeyer showing him at the Nationals.
Did you see that the Shatomar people also founded their own registry (how convenient!!). it’s the Spotted Purebred Arabian Registry lol. There is a link on the bottom of their page:
http://www.spottedpurebredarabianregistry.com/index.html
So if you get your papers yanked – just invent your own registry
. Okay to their defense, they already “founded” it before the papers being yanked…
Ohhh, and actually Sonora is even featured under patterns.
I’m surprised that the Arabian Registry did anything.
I bought a Reg. Half Arabian rescue mare at an auction, she was 3/4 Arabian and 1/4 saddlebred. I got her home, fattened her up and a few months later realized that she was in foal. I contacted the last owners on her papers and they were shocked that I had gotten her at an auction. The mare was bred to a Pinto Saddlebred and he was a Pinto Reserve World Champion. They sent me paperwork to register the foal, which was great, I registered the foal with the saddlebred registry and found her a new home when she was weaned. I raise Welsh ponies and ended up breeding the mare to one of my stallions but she didn’t really fit in with the little guys and so I put her up for sale.
A lady bought her who showed Arabians on the national level and was planning on showing her or so she said. I told her she was several months in foal to my Welsh stallion and tried to give her the breeders certificate to register the foal as Half Welsh. She refused the paperwork and said that she did not believe the mare was in foal. The next year I got a letter from the Arabian Registry saying that I had forgotten to sign some of the paperwork to register this mares foal as Half Arabian. The foal in question was born in the correct time frame for the breeding to my stallion. The paperwork they sent me had the mare being bred to an Arabian stallion during the same time frame that I bred her to my stallion. I had never heard of the stallion or the people who owned him and I still owned the mare at that time and know for a fact that she was not bred to that stallion. I called the Arabian Registry and told them that the mare was bred to a Welsh stallion during that time frame and I had never bred her to an Arabian. They stated that they had my signature on some of the paperwork and if there was a problem that I needed to work it out with the new owner. I explained again that the foal could not be Half Arabian since I never bred her to one and I had offered the new owner the Welsh paperwork for the foal and they had refused it. The girl I talked to got ugly with me and said that it wasn’t their problem and I needed to work it out with new owner or just sign the paperwork. I told her that I refused to sign paperwork that was incorrect and that I had not signed previous paperwork regarding a foal and if they had signatures that they had been forged. She was not interested and acted like I was the bad guy trying to keep the owners from getting papers on their foal.
I was very disappointed that they didn’t care enough to even listen and will not deal with them again if this is the way they do business.
Oh, and look here. Angie Collins is also looking to Lease a Gypsy Vanner mare on Drafts For Sale website. Looks like she was not satisified with just starving one Gypsy, she is looking for yet another. After the looks of poor Jack, I sure hope no one leases her any horse at all!
Here’s the link
http://www.draftsforsale.com/Wanted/showbbs.php?operation=showmessage&entryid=4a67495abe30b
RanchWife – Not sure if you will see this comment, but I think I have the same book about Snowman. It was my mom’s and she actually got to see Snowman himself jump at a show when she was a kid.
His story always get me teary-eyed.
This saga has been fascinating on many levels… I’m shocked that there are so many folks in the Arabian breed who can’t easily identify tobiano from sabino and/or don’t know that tobiano isn’t possible in Arabians. Some people believe it’s a crop-out thing. DUH! And to think the person who registered her is a former regional director of the Shagya-Arabian registry. Anyway, I couldn’t resist talking about it on my blog:
http://ilovehorses.net/blog/horses-people/makin-babies-the-influence-of-breeding-technologies-part-ii/
Just imagine — if Sonora hadn’t been tobiano and people on the web just thought she was rather plain, this might never have come to light.
I blogged about Sonora and said no f’ing way is that a purebred Arabian. Of course this is another clusterfuck that the Shatormar idiot is involved in…