Nightmare Neighbors!
Sep 04 2009
Someone posted this story to the comments yesterday – a horrifying tale of a neighborhood dispute gone bad which has already resulted in one dead horse.
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/56756132.html
This brings up a very good discussion. Recently, a longtime reader of this blog contacted me. She is in a very bad situation due to troublesome neighbors. For many years she has leased the same property with no problems. Then, the Bottom Feeders Next Door moved in – the neighbors we all dread. They abuse their horses, keep a rank stallion, and seem to have an inordinate number of angry pit bulls residing with them (you can figure that one out for yourselves).Â
The BFND don’t care for my reader, the sort of quiet, hardworking, law-abiding, middle aged, spoil-her-elderly-horses-rotten person that most of us would LOVE to have living next door. They have been pulling stuff like turning their stallion out along her fenceline to upset her horses and they have even verbally threatened to hurt her horses! She is freaked out, to say the least. The most she can get the authorities to do is “talk” to the neighbors. Well, I think we all know that’s a swift path to making things a lot worse. The landlord won’t permit her to construct more fences, and she is having trouble finding another rental that will permit six old coot horses and isn’t a zillion dollars a month. For now, she is keeping her horses in the barn, but with a COPD horse, that is no solution.Â
So let me ask you this question today: Who has been there? What did you do? Did you give up and just move? (I’d be most tempted to do that, but I agree that finding a great horsey rental can be challenging – been there several times). Did you get a guard dog? Was there something you were able to say to the police that got some action taken that actually resolved the situation? What do you do as a single woman when nut cases move in next door and threaten to hurt your animals? I’m not saying that to be sexist, but it’s just a fact of life that people are less likely to threaten you when you have a big husband who could kick their butts. Any advice for my reader?Â
And FYI, if someone has a place to live with horse facilities for rent in Western Oregon, send me an e-mail and let’s see if we can get my reader and her horses to safety.
98 comments to “Nightmare Neighbors!”
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GET A BIG GUY roommate!
Not ideal, but will work! Offer really reasonable rent to say…. A young cop.
It’s not for everyone, but I would get a shotgun and a rifle and I’d use the pasture closest to the neighbor’s fence for target practice on a REGULAR basis. I hope your reader can find someplace else — or just hang in there long enough for the idiot neighbors to lose their lease, default on their mortgage or end up in jail. It might not take as long as finding a new place.
When I first had horses back in the 1970s, I boarded at a place outside Stockton called Bear Creek Stable. The people who bought it thought a boarding stable was a great way to make money, but they forgot to consider the fact that people who boarded there also wanted to come and go relatively freely and ride, haul out, show, haul home, etc.
I had a lovely AQHA gelding that I showed and one day I came to the stable and someone had taken a pair of nippers and clipped his nostril. I contacted the barn owner and she told me it served me right. “You treat that horse like your CHILD,” she said, like that was some sort of bad thing to do (I was everything like the lady in your story except I wasn’t middle-aged ;o) She made no effort to find out who had done this (she had a sh** kid that was my prime suspect) and made no offer to pay part of the vet bill.
I moved the horse to another facility that very day — without a 30-day notice, which ticked her off, but she really couldn’t do anything about it — called a new vet who was able to fix the situation with some very delicately applied sutures, and made sure everyone knew that Bear Creek Stable was NOT a good place to board.
Sometimes it doesn’t take crappy neighbors to make the situation unbearable.
Keeping the horses at home isn’t always a solution, either. My current neighbor, a woman I’ve known for nearly 40 years, is having TIAs, I think — her husband, also in his 80s, is in denial about his wife’s mental state. She gets VERY nasty if you tell her she has repeated the same story four time in the space of an hour or so and can very easily toss something over the fence to my dogs (we have a precedent for dog poisoning in the neighborhood, a fact I’m sure she can remember). Because of this I do not say much of anything to her anymore other than Hi how are you or What’s new, discretion being the better part of valor.
Oh that poor woman. Geeze talk about being between a rock and a hard place. I will be interested to see what folks say. Living next door to likely drug dealers/users sounds potentially dangerous no matter what. I hope a solution is found for her and her crew.
No horses involved, but my elderly, disabled mother was harassed by neighbors who took issue with being asked not to park outside her house (This house had no driveway or garage).
The issue escalated into threats and nearly hit the physical violence point. (Sadly, my dad would have started it, most likely). The cops did nothing. Eventually, they simply had to move. Sadly, their dog was equally useless…they have a fifty pound blancmange
Sounds like that place could use a visit from the gelding bus big time. The bus could improve people, dogs and horses in one go!
Another comment on your reader’s situation: Isn’t it a shame that bullies like the BFND have all the rights in this situation because authorities won’t step in and kick butt and take names? Animal Control folks have a terrible job–ranging from the horrors they see when animals are abused or neglected to the gun-toters who have packs of unlicensed and unvaccinated dogs who threaten to kill the officers when they come to see if the canines have licenses (never getting close enough to see if the owners have permits for the guns they display). It seems that a lot of them learn they can sit at their desks or drive around in their cars and do nothing, but still collecct a pay check. I say it “seems” that way because there aren’t very many situations where the complaints lodged actually have any effect on the situation.
I’m hoping your neighbor can document what is happening–the threats, the bullying, the stallion upsetting her horses, the pack of dogs, etc. Carrying a voice activated recorder might give the authorities proof that there is a problem with the BFNDs that needs to be arranged.
And if she has a big burly friend … and HE has friends … the mens might come for visits and do a little “high visibility” yard duty on her behalf. Out there “helpin’ with the horses,” sort of thing.
Strength in numbers and all that.
I learned long ago that to get the police involved you have to tell them you fear for YOUR personal safety. Tell them you’re afraid of their stallion injuring you (not your property), tell them their dogs are terrorizing you. Police are reluctant to get involved in situations concerning a “civil matter” property/livestock, but they must get involved with it’s a matter of human safety.
I was recovering a stolen horse some years back and had officers explain to me that I had to tell them I was afraid for my own safety to get them to escort me in the recovery. Since then I’ve asked other officers about this and they all agreed, make it about your person, not your property and they’ll step in.
Cathy…sorry I don’t have anything relevant to say at the moment, but this is something I wanted to pass along to you for awhile, if it hasn’t already been.
http://netposse.com/stolenmissing/MaxILstolenAug08.htm
I’m afraid that poor Max may have wound up crossing the border to Canada and there’s no hope…but it doesn’t hurt to get the word out.
I have had crazy neighbors twice…well three times, I guess…but once was my sperm donor. I sold that place and moved! Second time, was here in Eastern Oregon. I moved with my three older dogs, in with my new hubby….constructed a large fenced area in the back yard, so that my dogs could occasionally go out and stretch their legs, without me having to be right there. We were already planning on selling the place and moving, as I needed space for my three horses. But, the neighbor had several Visla that barked incessently at my dogs. Of course, redneck neighbor on the other side..blamed it on mine, since mine showed up and the barking started. Now..can you look over the fence?! And witness the fact that my dogs were not even there. One time he reported them and they were being watched at the clinic I worked at, on the other side of the state….so I doubt they barked from 300 miles away! Anyway, I locked the kennel gate when I put them there..taped the neighbors dogs..and I myself put a nice notice board, on the kennel gate (just in case stupid neighbor came over and tried to let them out) threatening to remove part of his manhood should anything at all bother my dogs. We did sell, and move. So…we get to this place. Nice pastures for the horses, a big barn being built to accompany the smaller ones…and redneck neighbor here, has this cute two or three year old horse…find out later..it’s a stud. Right on the other side of a 4 foot high, wire fence….ok..there are some taller sections in his area…but regular ones too. I asked the guy (actually gave him a copy of the Oregon statutes regarding fencing for stallions) if he would pen him up only in the taller areas…(he was renting this place) and I also talked to his landlord. Within, a several weeks. I came home and found him in with my mares..after he “escaped” from the taller confinement areas..yeah right! You could see he went through the shorter areas. There is a stallion pen at this place…it’s large, and the fences are well over 8 feet tall…why…WHY have a stud in anything less? Why not GELD the damned thing?! He would have made a cute gelding. I finally called the animal control, and sheriff out. They also told him of the laws, gave him the bill for a lutalyse injection for each of my two mares…and he said he would have the thing gelded. Guess what..he did it himself!!! Anyhow…He did finally get rid of the horse…his dog spent more time in my pasture than at home….and finally he moved about a year later. And…another stupid person moved in soon after…after their nice old horse died…they bought their daughter…you got it….a yearling stud colt! They did move as well, thank god renters don’t stay around long usually..at least not idiot ones.
So, my answer is…I moved twice….and neighbor moved…twice!
Good luck, I hope they find someplace safe to go.
Suzi
Haven’t been in the situation, but have with the pit bulls- and they killed 2 of our cats before animal control would come pick them up. We also had to document every time they did anything on our property, and animal control took the video. With most digital cameras nowadays, you also have a video option- use it. If the stallion goes through the fence, put her horses in the barn, contain him, and either 1) call animal control to remove this ‘stray’ horse (play dumb… ‘oh, that was your stallion?’ if the neighbors ask) or 2) let him go ‘missing’ (put him in your barn), have him gelded, and then let him loose again to find his way home… if they are that stupid, they likely won’t notice until they go to breed more fuglies and nothing gets pregnant no many how many times he breeds em in the pasture.
Or of course there’s the old standby of “I won’t move, YOU will”… being the crappiest neighbor right back to them… playing loud music at all hours, fireworks, parties, mailboxes going missing in the middle of the night…
It would help if the story included how she pissed off the nasty neighbors and HOW they threatened to harm her horses (shoot them, poison, burn the barn down, what?)
We lived on a private road that had a road association. The leader of the association decided that we could not ride our horses up the road to get to the WA State land behind us. I produced a document that stated we definately had an easement for the road. He called the police and they agreed that we had use of the road.
However, later when I was riding down the road, he was coming up in his car and he swerved his car towards me while I was on horseback! I went home and called the police and they stated there was nothing they could do because I wasn’t injured.
After that though, I think the guy realized that I could have been KILLED by his little “stunt” because he was nice to us and we never had problems with him again. I think he realized that he had cross the line!
About the news link- oh my god. That is absolutely AWFUL. I can’t believe someone would do that. They need to be kicked in the head a few times, preferably by a steel toed boot.
I would get myself the biggest dog I could find. And if the police won’t do anything about it, they couldn’t do anything to her if she did it, so why not give it right back to ‘em?! People in general just tend to push to see their limits. In this situation, you need to push right back to set their limits, or they’ll only get worse. Idiots in this world run rampant…
>>GET A BIG GUY roommate!
Not ideal, but will work! Offer really reasonable rent to say…. A young cop.< <
Now that is one of the best legal ideas I’ve ever heard! Two thumbs up. I’ll remember that!
I would think that copious amounts of surveillance video taken of said neighbor harassing the horses and the renter would probably be sufficient to get SOMEONE in law enforcement or animal control to do something…of course, a renter is usually trumped out by a homeowner in most cases I bet, too. I’d find a way to move, and fast.
>>One time he reported them and they were being watched at the clinic I worked at, on the other side of the state….so I doubt they barked from 300 miles away! < <
CLASSIC. There’s no better feeling than when someone who is harrassing you screws up THAT bad!
I have one suggestion and it works really well. Get a paintball gun. It works well on stallions and other non friendly horses and pit bulls too! It won’t hurt them seriously. Paint ball markers were created to mark livestock. It stings, it makes a nice loud pop and the paint will fade off quickly. Just get a dark color for the dark horses. No one will be the wiser.
>>Carrying a voice activated recorder might give the authorities proof that there is a problem with the BFNDs that needs to be arranged.< <
More good advice. I’m so glad I posted this, because I didn’t come up with very much that was helpful when she asked me!
I don’t have a solution to this problem, but I have a similar (but WAY less dire) situation of my own brewing. My boyfriend and I rent a cottage and horse facilities on a property where our landlords also live. This is in Long Island, NY, where such a situation is UNHEARD OF, so I’m overjoyed to be so lucky. We’ve been living here over a year, and up until recently, I’ve had no reason to complain. Our landlords (who have no knowledge about horses at all) have three boys, including a toddler, an ~5 y/o, and an ~8 y/o.
The boys are actually very nice, but recently they’ve started taking an interest in my horse — nothing too bad or dangerous, but sometimes I’ll find them (outside the paddock) trying to feed her leaves or weeds, or pretending to “lasso” her with leafy fronds. Further, their father recently built a ladder to go with an old tree-house that sits (and had sat forgotten, I assume, for many years) in a tree that’s in my small riding arena, which is attached to my paddocks and is always open to my horse. When I first discovered they were using the tree-house, I also found that they had left a gate to the arena wide open, while they had closed, but not latched, the gate between the arena and the paddocks. Also, they often leave things lying around in the arena, like toys or wooden boards or glass cups!! And they have been messing around with other things, like locking my cross-ties together.
Some of these things I’ve addressed with the boys themselves — I asked them not to feed her things, or poke at her with leaves, and to make sure the gates were closed and latched if they’re going to be in the arena. However, I really need to sit down with the landlord and have him go over these things with them — I’m not their parent, after all. I know that a lot of the problems might be solved with this simple communication to the landlord, because these unsafe practices pose a threat not only to my horse, but also to the kids. But I know I’m not in a position with much leverage. I’m afraid to make too big of a deal, because the landlords are NOT horse-people, and I’m sure their precious kids’ enjoyment is more important to them than my horse’s safety. And if I push the angle of the safety of their children, I’m afraid that it would only be too easy for them to find another renter, and get rid of the horse property altogether — maybe put in a pool or something. Because it’s true, most of their property IS taken up with the horse stuff, and they really don’t have any use for it.
So I don’t know exactly what to do; I’m between a rock and a hard place. I am definitely not going to make a fuss about them using the tree-house — if their father built the ladder, clearly he is in favor of them using it, despite the fact that their using the arena is an annoyance to me, and really does pose a danger to the kids!
After my registered sex offender neighbors moved out, in came the chicken-fighting pit-bull-owning late-night-chicken-fights-and-drug-dealing-parties neighbors. The day I saw the U-Haul in the drive, I realized what was moving in and cheerfully stopped to introduce myself — “Hi, glad to meet you, I see you have lots of animals, well you’ll be glad to know I’m a veterinarian and my best friend runs Animal Control, so if you need anything at all, we’ll be glad to help you out. By the way, I assume those pit bulls are registered and vaccinated?”
In our rural community, it is legal to shoot dogs if they are on your property harassing your livestock. While we never actually shot the dogs, my husband did fire off a few shots with our nasty-looking assault rifle when the pits got into our pasture. After that, the neighbors did keep the dogs chained.
Three calls to Animal Control to break up chicken fights, and the neighbors disappeared. I am sure the next time they looked for rural property to hold their illegal animal abuse operations, they checked out the neighbors more carefully before buying!
Aaah the NEIGHBORS! there are times when I feel blessed to live here (NY) as generally, these things are taken seriously. however, the neighbors need to actually break the law before law enforcement can do much, and they can probably turn their fugly rank stallion out wherever they please on their property. Sigh.
We moved to our farm 4 years ago (15 acres, 3-4 horses, all groomed pastures/arena/yard, surrounded on 2 sides by a 500 acre dairy/crop farm, other side is narrow strip of woods owned by good neighbors). Horses arrived the last day of deer season, as we were aware the feckless unemployed son of the dairy farmer, who lives in his dad’s farm trailer across the street from us, was a hunter. In fact, we now refer to him as “the great white hunter”. I generally think we need to hunt deer here-the population is very out of control. Thus I just asked him to give me a head’s up if he needed to get on or near our pastures (the property is posted every 20-30 ft around the perimeter. He was very polite, ignored my request, and proceeded to hunt across our back pasture at dusk that day, unsuccessfully, driving 5 deer into the run in with the horses I was frantically trying to get in the barn. Maximum CF, one horse went over a Dutch door and got a brachial plexus injury (which resolved).
The next 2 years we went through hell with 4 guys walking right up to me, my husband and my father in my back 7 acre pasture with rifles on Thanksgiving, and one guy which I videoed walking past 14 posted signs onto my riding arena! When he saw me he ran across the road and fled through a neighbors property. Luckily, I can turn out in front pastures which are too near the house/barn/road to be hunted on, but why should I have to?
Last year I had the kid and his 5 guests arrested when they started shooting 10 feet from my front porch (law is 500 ft from a building). He is an unbelievable moron, so much so that the police officer gave me his cell and instructed me to call immediately if there were any other problems. It remains to be seen what we will face this year, but the police are now onto him and they did tell him that if he sets one foot on posted property again he will do jail time.
My situation is pretty controlled with decent security (get good binoculars, camera, cam corder, deer jacking light to DOCUMENT things), and I do not live alone, but my best advice is to try to work closely with law enforcement, and to try and increase your security (and to move as soon as you find a place). The other thing we did was make the deep pockets farmer aware that we would hold him responsible for damages caused by his son/guests. That seemed to get his attention.
Dressagepony…I would totally sit down with Mom and talk about the children’s safety. Come prepared with a horror story of someone you “know” (from the internet, ha ha) who lost a child to a silly pasture accident. Talk about how much the horses weigh, how sharp their feet are and how you would just feel horrible if something happened to a child and you are scared because you know you cannot be there all the time to watch.
Then ask Mom what she thinks is the best way to convince her kids that the horses are something we stay far, far away from?
I lived on a property with FOUR little boys under 10 (yeah I think that woman deserved a medal) and they never came near the horses but, boy, their parents had beaten it into their heads that horses are dangerous, even though these were Mom’s old horses and were elderly Arabians. They were allowed to play around the area with the chickens, but go no further, or they got in hot water and they knew it. Of course Mom in that case was a dressage rider and nobody had to explain to her that horses can be dangerous, even old ones.
>>After my registered sex offender neighbors moved out, in came the chicken-fighting pit-bull-owning late-night-chicken-fights-and-drug-dealing-parties neighbors.< <
Man, you just win the neighbor lottery there, don’t you?
Oh, wow. I’m so sorry for that lady’s troubles. I had a near run in with some trashy neighbors not nearly as bad as that though. They had a zillion cats (all with upper respiratory infections) and several toms liked to come to my house and beat up my kitty. I tolerated that and didn’t say anything, just kept my cat inside as much as possible. Then they started throwing stuff over the fence for my horses. I caught them at it the week after I had my old gelding put down after he colicked. I was livid! I told her my horse died last week and although I couldn’t prove he died because of what she fed him I would appreciate her NEVER feeding my horse again. She didn’t. She used to wait until my husband was out mowing the lawn then get out in her thong bikini and wash her car…ugh! She did the same thing when I had roofers reroofing my house…thought they would never finish since they kept stopping to watch her.
There is a vacant horse property that includes a double wide with a nice barn on several acres near me for rent but I live in Middle Georgia so I don’t think that is helpful.
oh, thank God I own my place….so fence questions I can handle without having to ask permission.
Still…..next door neighbor had 4 stallions and one mare on 10 acres and couldn’t quite understand why they wern’t all fat…and told all the neighborhood, my horses were dangerously fat, had feed, halters,lead ropes and tools “borrowed”…hand braided macrame- very distinctive…had one stallion chase another over the fence, repeatedly…finally I quit chatching him and putting him in my barn until neighbor came home to get him. He went down the road to another neighbor…BNT who called Sheriff’s office to pick up “stray horse”. Deputy “explained” Texas law about stallions and fences and “Oh, is that dog vaccinated and registered?”
Things have been *much* quieter since.
oh, and I got a .410 and practiced shooting filled plastic water jugs off the front fence posts, in front of the house, from the front porch.
When I first moved to Idaho we were presented with a similar problem. The next door neighbors were drug abusers that were constantly letting their mangy mutts out to chase my horses. I did three things that really helped resolve the situation.
1. I put up BIG lights and a camera on that side of the property and pointed them towards their house. There is nothing a bully hates more than being spotted doing his bad deeds. They are, by nature, cowards and this helped reduce the late-night debauchery. Also, it cut down on how many drug customers came by at night. They also weren’t fond of being “caught on tape”.
2. I contacted the owners of the house to let them know what was going on and that they were ultimately responsible for anything that the renters might do to our property.
3. I trained my horse how to go after dogs. Not the most ideal situation and I would definitely be very careful which horse you teach this to, but it has come in handy when riding in rural areas where dog “containment” is a figment of the imagination. One of their dogs came into our pasture and got pinned to the ground by Flash and a good chunk of his backside taken off (not seriously injured, but enough to make quite the impression on the dog). I never saw any of their dogs on our property again.
Hope these ideas might help…
I and my critters are the hapless victims of the evil neighbors. Background is my landlord actually instigated the quarrel with them by fighting their zoning code violations and not only that but getting the whole neighborhood except me involved in his fight-picking. They are taking out their ire on me and my horses because the County got involved and stopped their illegal activities. After that they moved another country’s nationals (not legally in this country) onto the property with them and the woman property owner actually married one of them recently. The one she just married is the one training pits and other breeds sometimes prohibited by incorporated municipalities. They are very cruel to their own horses in addition to the threats which range from “just wait to see what is going to happen to your horses” to threats of cutting my fences to let horses out on the highway.
I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions and am continuing to search really hard for someplace affordable to move. It may mean moving back to WA where I have friends in big places (pastures and barns, that is) because around here there’s basically nada. I loved the part about getting a giant roommate but it would have to be bigger than (pardon me while I snark) the 6’3 300 lb plus “two-bagger” that is the FEMALE half of the evil neighbors.
Having been in the legal field for too many years I hesitate to rely on hearsay evidence. In this case however my outside sources are as they say unimpeachable, being a former co-worker who was their former neighbor in the location they lived before moving next door. They were not only horribly cruel to their dogs – at that time German Shepherds (no horses then, apparently) but allowed their dogs to pack and run to the devastation of their former neighbors pets. One Shepherd got hit by a car in the street and lay dying as my co-worker tried desperately to get them to come help their dog – these people slammed the door in her face and let their dog die in the street and LAY THERE for a day – threatening my co-worker who tried to help that dog. Second source is a department manager at a local farm supply store who indicated she and her employees make every attempt to hide when this woman comes in because she is incredibly abusive verbally to the store employees.
The problem is twofold – first the neighbor property owner is very wealthy with inherited money and is quite fond of throwing her legal weight around. Second, local law enforcement is reluctant partly because immigration issues are a very, very sore subject in this intensively agricultural area that relies heavily on “other countries’ nationals” for much of the farm labor.
We’ll see what happens next week – I have an appointment with the local DA to discuss the matter hopefully confidentially.
I had neighbors that were not horse people. We had the same landlord as it was 2 houses on 1 property, but I had all of the land. They had a pit bull bitch that had pups and they kept one while selling the others. Over the course of a year their 3 daughters rode with me, receiving free lessons (something I charge for). We got along fine, although their lifestyle was different than ours. They kept the pup in a chicken coop and never played with him once he was past the fun stage (3-4 months) and never cleaned the cage. He had worked a hole in the cage about the time he was 9 months or so and ran out to me in my pasture where I was fixing fence. No big deal, he played while I worked, then I took him home. This happened twice more in 2 days because they didn’t fix the pen (obviously).
Day 3 I was giving two lessons to two girls age 8 & 12. All 3 horses we were riding were bred mares, National Champions and the best of my stock. The pup got out again and came over to us. I didn’t think anything of it, beyond an annoyance. Until he started following a mare. In seconds something snapped in the dog and he turned to full attack mode. Lunging and biting at the mares. My mare and one of the girls’ bucked us off. The one girl stepped off, but the dog came after her horse so I told her to turn the mare loose. I did not want the dog attacking the kids.
It was an unbeleivable nightmare, including screaming, horses run into fences, blood drawn and my garden rake before I got the dog to stop. The neighbor girls were home but not their parents. I was pissed, terrified, and had foals due within the month. I wanted the dog gone. I called A/C who did nothing but tell them to tie up their dog. The husband turned into a complete jackass and threatened my husband and I. Extreme hostilities, threats and name calling for weeks.
I told the land lord I leave or they leave. I was the best tenent. Paid my rent on time, made several improvements to property. Neighbors were gone before foals hit the ground.
I’d start with getting a gun and familiarizing myself with using it and the local laws. Take a class. Most stores that sell guns have them. If you can’t find one, go down to your local police station and see if you can’t convince one of the cops to teach you for a few extra bucks on the side.
Second I’d start documenting everything. Take pictures. Video is even better. Write down every single time there is an issue. I’d call the police every time as well. They may not be able to do anything, but at least its all documented if something happens that they can be prosecuted for.
Install a security camera. My fiance’s dad did one for a few hundred bucks. Its motion activated and runs for a set amount of time after it’s kicked on or as long as there continues to be motion. It’s connected to its own computer in the house that stores all the footage. He reviews it every evening. The property owner shouldn’t object, things like that can lower their insurance actually. And the camera/setup should be fairly easy to move to a new place if it comes to that.
Ask for regular patrols to come past the house. Say you’re worried about *your personal safety*. People are less likely to get stupid if they know cops frequent the area.
I know you said she can’t put up more fencing, but can she do something temporary? Like stakes with some hot tape? A portable corral type thing? Friends of mine have one they use for camping and with a big enough charger it gives off quite a shock.
Across from my fiance’s dad’s house is a rental house. Last year there was a lovely pack (about 15 people ranging from toddler to 40yo) living there. Thankfully animals weren’t involved, but they were horrible neighbors. His dad’s riding arena is next to the road at the front of his property (country road – virtually no traffic) and they would ride their dirt bikes up and down the road anytime we’d try to ride. Ultimately the horses stopped caring about those so they moved on to shooting fireworks AT us. That was charming. The adults refused to quit riding, but his little sister wasn’t allowed to ride if they were home.
My fiance’s dad ultimately had to give his dog away because he was afraid for her life. They were constantly calling and reporting her barking and shot her with BBs a couple of times. She NEVER left their property (there’s a coyote proof fence! I don’t think a year old idiot boxer could get through it…), although they claimed she did and came to threaten their kids.
All of this was reported to the police who said, “I know, I know, but we can’t do anything until something happens”. Well something did happen.
They killed someone! The guy was divorced and his new 20yo wife’s brother (who lived with them) ended up killing the guy’s ex-wife when she and her new husband came over to drop the kids off. There was an argument and a gun was “accidentally” fired when he “tried to hit the new husband in the head with it”. She was shot in the head from a couple feet away, but it was all he said, she said and the kid walked. I was across the street, heard the shots, they were a very close together and seemed fairly deliberate. No one asked us. The assortment of kids all saw it…and they got the kids back and the shooter was allowed to continue living there!
They moved out when their lease was up a few months later because the landlord wouldn’t renew it thankfully, but yeah it was an interesting couple of years.
I haven’t had any really bad experiences with my neighbours (just stupid neighbourhood children accidentally tossing their soccer ball over the fence and deciding to climb in with the 2 full grown Rottweilers… who are absolute dolls, but still!) but one of my trainer’s clients is having issues right now with her neighbour. They bought a small property for their 3 horses and built a small arena in the back, and have been there for almost two years now. The one neighbour has always been distant, but recently he has started standing right next to the fence verbally harassing the entire family (including their 11 year old daughter), as well as my trainer whenever she comes to ride. This includes swearing, threats against them, their horses, etc. The family has built up the fence where their horse’s paddocks back against his property as they are afraid that he might poison them, and they have had to call the police and have them come talk to him. My trainer has started wearing a sweatshirt emblazoned with the logo of a certain well know biker gang of whom she is acquainted with some associates
and if he keeps up with his abuse, she may bring a couple out when she rides. My advice is just like what has been already mentioned, make friends with the local law enforcement, and let them know that you fear for your own safety, and if that fails, be seen with an intimidating sort of person. Good luck though, and I’m sorry that she is having to deal with this!
For the subject of today’s blog: Look at the laws — local, county, state — that can apply to your situation. Is there an anti-stalking law? Use that. Are there laws regarding containment of stallions or general rules regarding “dangerous animals” (stallions and bulls are generally *presumed to be* dangerous under the law, and there’s no “if it happens again you’re in trouble” excuse — first problem first charge).
You can use the law. I agree that indicating you fear for your own safety, whether from the bad neighbor himself or the stallion, is most likely to get action. Even the good ol’ boy PDs have been forced to pay attention to this kind of threat in recent years.
Another law to look at: Your rights involving trespassing animals. In my state, a livestock owner may kill any dog harrassing livestock, and need not consider ownership or the relative value of the dog vs the livestock (iow, he may claim his pit bull was worth $10,000 and your horse was worth $50, but that doesn’t matter). Do you have the right to kill the stallion if it is on your property? You might.
Finally, discuss with your landlord whether you can add temporary and totally removable fencing such as hotwire. Add a hotwire “top rail” to the boundary fence and a “keepaway” hotwire about 10-15 feet into your pasture. (You can add a nice high barrier with hotwire without doing anything permanent to the fence; buy fiberglass hotwire posts and wire them to the current posts so that they stick up a couple feet above the current fence. Add hotwire. Add charger (run the wire so the charger is well on YOUR property and anyone tampering with it has to clearly commit trespass). BTW, you can point out to the landlord that this will protect HIS property from damage by the fugly stallion.
Just an aside: I really don’t understand *landlords* who are willing to rent to these bottom-feeding lowlifes. Unless the places they have for rent are not suitable for human habitation, why would they want this kind of tenant? Cheeze. How to not get paid, be forced to go to court to evict, have property damage to pay for before you can rerent, etc. etc.
Yikes! Not something anyone wants to deal with, yet it happens with frightening regularity.
The first thought is to move, but that is not easily done, and you may end up with another set of crazy neighbors at the new place.
Some friends of mine got together and bought a bunch of adjoining 5-acre lots on a cul-de-sac so they could have their own neighborhood of good horsey neighbors. The more you read about situations like this, the more you realize that having your own planned community with some friends is a really good idea.
The good news is crazy neighbors tend to “shoot themselves in the foot” eventually. They are self-destructive and therefore self limiting. Unfortunately you have to put up with them in the meantime, which can be years. Temporary fencing (like electric fence or pipe corrals) might be useful so you can let your horses out of the barn while keeping a buffer between you and the craziness. Hopefully you can position yourself so you can stay in your spot but they can’t negatively affect you.
If you can call the police out on something that is illegal and get them written up, fined, or in jail, that might help. Animal abuse has many gray areas, but calling the cops with an obvious violation of a clearly defined law should get results. For example, in most places there is a law about stallions having to be housed in an enclosure that is a certain distance from the property line, with a fence of a certain height and construction. You ought to check into that and see what the criteria area and what the penalties are. If the police can collect $ from these people they may be more interested. People like this are often druggies. Maybe they have a meth lab in the barn? It probably won’t be that easy, but one can hope.
Good luck.
People like the bottom feeders are so darn stupid, too…I know of someone right now who is being harrassed by neighbors and her HUSBAND is a COP…I mean, how dumb can you get? You think you might get in trouble standing at the fence line telling the COP’S WIFE to F off and making threats…just maybe?
DUH!
Unfortunately, I don’t have advice, but I do have a fairly good story about a neighbor situation that actually worked out.
One of my good friends had a really difficult time finding a horse friendly rental about a year or so ago. She and her boyfriend finally found a really good deal on a property right outside town. Then they met their neighbors and realized it wasn’t exactly as good of a deal as the landlord had promised. Unaltered (and unvaccinated) animals ran rampant, and the neighbors apparently liked to get loaded and shoot guns. Lovely.
“Unfortunately” for the neighbors, my friend and her boyfriend train police dogs. As soon as they let their narcotics dogs out, the dogs ran straight to the fence and went ballistic. The police considered the dogs’ reaction enough probable cause to search the neighbors’ property. Apparently, the neighbors were not only thugs; they were also manufacturing meth. Not only did the neighbors get arrested, they also got evicted.
Washington state has specific laws for the confinement of stallions. I’ll bet Oregon does as well. If it was enforced more often, owners of free ranging (fugly) stallions would be out of business. We could only hope.
Oh lovely neighbors.. ugh.
We have some of those, THANKFULLY there’s vacant property between our 15 acres and their land, but with the constant wind in the winter we still get plastic bags and other garbage blowing over from their house. They used to have a couple of rottweilers, they came over one day and attacked our dog, My dad beat them off with a club, but Trouble had a couple pretty bad bites. And then those dogs attacked a jogger and AC took them and put them down. The neighbors place looks so bad with so much junk and a million old cars that don’t run or move, that some people were looking for the county dump and pulled into their place THINKING IT WAS THE DUMP!!!! and then a couple years ago our dog ran over there like once, probably chasing a rabbit, and they called us threatening to shoot him if he comes over again. Mind you, they don’t have any livestock or at that point, I don’t even think they had any other dogs. It was like.. excuse me? YOU’RE the people who had dogs that attacked people, and came onto our property and attacked our dog.
It is my belief that those who take pride in their own ignorance are unreachable. Unteachable. Untrainable. And VERY DANGEROUS IF CROSSED. I currently live in Texas (home of yesterday’s bevy of beauties) where such persons abound. Grew up in the rural South, so I, too, have been forced to live next to the Worst People In The World. MY ADVICE TO YOUR FRIEND, MADAME DE FUGLEE, IS TO AVOID CONFRONTATION AT ALL COST. She will not win. Trashy people love to fight, and they love it when feuds escalate.
As for your average rural constabulary, forget it. They have fugly studs of their own because they cringe and make pee-pee at the thought of nut-whacking.
My very WORST worst evil neighbors were just what one would expect: surly children, a couple of uncut unworthy colts, crappy fences, resentful dogs on chains, target practice across our pasture, LOUD music, piles of beer cans, dubious associates, skinny cattle, dilapidated mobile home, a mullet for every male, carbuncular teens, visible lily-white butt-cracks, and the obligatory rebel flag stickers on all truck bumpers. Uncle Bubba (might’ve been a cousin) (or both) was a peeping Tom who liked to whack his tally in the bushes down at the four corners.
One day The Missus decided she had too many cats (neutering not being a family priority), so she killed about 50 of them. I don’t know her method, but I know she did it because she put them in plastic sacks and set them in the bar ditch. Right by our driveway. Vermin arrived on scene; horrible.
Lots of stuff happened including their dogs chasing our horses, one of which was a graded stakes winner home for a layoff. Last horse in the world able to defend itself. The Charming Neighbors kept numerous swine in typical no-zoning-lest-they-take-our-guns fashion — pens built from hammered junk like squatter huts in Karachi — and the hogs escaped regularly, came onto our property and created chaos. The day those sows got to rooting over our septic tank is a day I’d like to forget.
After going through hell with the above-referenced WORST worst neighbors, we did a a few important things to protect ourselves: put electric wire on our pasture and paddock fences, put electric wire on top and around the bottom of our yard fence, kept all gates and doors locked when we weren’t home, and installed many, many FLOODLIGHTS. We absolutely refused to be anything but pleasant, no matter what the Nasty Neighbors said or did. They eventually got a divorce. He set the mobile home on fire hoping to collect insurance. Of course, when the place went up in flames, we didn’t know it was arson. All we knew was that we’d seen a number of snot-nosed toddlers on the property, not to mention the dogs. My sister and I called the sheriff who called fire department (this was before 911). Then we ran over to make sure those kiddos and critters weren’t trapped. We risked our lives going into a flaming mobile home, only to learn later that the SOB neighbor had set the fire. The rural “fire department,†by the way, consisted of one truck driven by a one-armed volunteer. NO I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.
So, to the friend in Oregon with the worst, worst, worst neighbors, all I can suggest is to fortify your perimeter, avoid engagement, do not try to “talk it out†with the cretins, never leave your pets loose, put up a good lighting system, and wait for nature to take its course. If the new neighbors are renters, they’ll be evicted sooner or later. If they just bought the property, they’ll either lose it to foreclosure or drink themselves to death. Wherever you go, such persons will exist. DO NOT PANIC AND DO NOT SHOW FEAR; BULLIES DON’T GET THEIR ROCKS OFF UNLESS THEY KNOW YOU’RE SCARED.
Avoid eye contact, back away slowly, and DO NOT ENGAGE. Smile politely, and get busy with that electric fencing (easily taken down, your personal property, shouldn’t upset the landlord). Oh! One other thing I completely forgot! Inspired by tales of jungle warfare, my sister and I dug a pit under my bedroom window, put sharp sticks in the bottom, and covered it with netting and a layer of hay in hopes of trapping Uncle Chester the Molester. Until I check the statute of limitations, that’s all I have to say about that.
drsgjunky – I was just recently told by law enforcement that the stallion fence requirements law is a myth. There are none. Do you have a cite to prove otherwise? Want to save me the trouble of looking it up?
Well, my first suggestion was to see if you could file a complaint with the city against the homeowner ( I was told we could do that if the tenants were causing problems) but, if she married one of them I don’t know how much that would help.
I agree, check laws and zoning regulations, and document EVERYTHING!!
Call the police and file a complaint EVERY time they make a threat or cause any kind of problem, tell the police you fear for your safety and you want that in the complaint (get a copy of the complaint(s) to make sure it’s in there, put it in every complaint. Oh yeah, make sure you get the name of the officer that takes the complaint(s) in case it isn’t). Hopefully, that will kind of force the police to do as much as they can since there is documentation that you have told them you are concerned for your own safety.
Sorry, didn’t have time to read everything, but here’s what I’d do.
I agree with telling the authorities that you are afraid for your personal safety. Keep track of everything that you do/say (with neighbors and authorities) and everything the neighbors and authorities do/say. Get a video camera or more — tape always and save anything incrimidating. Also, will the landlord allow temporary fencing? T-posts with toppers and electric tape, at least?
I’d probably end up getting hurt in this situation, but I’d go down fighting and make sure the neighbors looked worse when it was all over!
Why are cops almost always useless in these situations? What are they afraid of? It’s so disappointing:(
I have to agree with Little Reggie, avoid confrontation, but do whatever you need to do to make yourself and your animals safe. Find out what the requirements are for posting no trespassing and keep out signs. Then double that for your property. Also make friends with your local law enforcement and animal control, maybe invite them to your property to get acquainted. Ask them for suggestions how to best deal with your situation. And then go to a local gun store and get some firearm lessons. You must be able to protect yourself in the event of everything going to hell in a hurry. My youngest daughter and I live alone for the most part because my dear husband is an OTR truck driver. She’s 14 and I’m well middle aged means I should live to be over a hundred. Our only neighbor is a suspected meth house, as well as being suspected of water theft. They also have a couple of small kids in the house that often have no supervision. I make a point of having a handgun visible whenever the adults are outside, and so far they have not been very nosy. The one time they asked about it I told them it was for snakes which we really do have around (just not generally in November). The idea of a shotgun and practicing with water jugs is an excellent idea, if you have an area that is directed away from all the animals. There is a lot of great information in these comments, good luck to you.
Reggie I quite agree about the do NOT engage part. My idiot landlord who started this whole mess by picking a fight with these very wealthy neighboring property owners wanted me to go OVER TO THEIR HOUSE ALONE and “talk to them.” he took my refusal which I politely couched in terms not of “and what planet did you fall off of” but a mild “I really don’t think a timid and intimidated middle aged single lady really needs to walk into a pit of angry and most likely drunk pit-bull-fight-dog training illegals for a parley” as being as he put it “uncooperative” as in “you need to learn how to get along with the neighbors.” (WTF?!?!?!?)
As I mentioned to Fugly, despite almost a decade of cordial landlord/tenant relationship the landlord is now mad at and being nasty to ME because, though he started the whole thing by picking a fight with these neighbors and will no doubt still have to deal with the neighbors harassing the next tenant after I leave, “if it wasn’t for you and your horses I wouldn’t have this hassle.” Hassle meaning my petitioning him to put up more fences or at least let me do so and take it off my rent considering permanent fence-building is considered capital improvement to the property.
If anyone wants to know the names of these lowlifes fugly can give you my direction.
Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions – I particularly like the details of the temporary electric fence ideas, hadn’t thought of that. I have also asked some of the streaming security vid people if there are any cell companies that if you are one of their subscribers you could check your surveillance cameras by cell if away from the computer.
Also have talked with an Oregon State Patrolman from whose family I’ve purchased alfalfa in the past and he is working a bit behind the scenes trying to gather some strategies (he can’t do much, not his jurisiction, but could maybe put together some ways of how/who to talk to in local law enforcement about the problem particularly as the property owners are wealthy and influential but who are also housing and employing a number of illegals.
Thank you again for all of your support. It is wonderful that people are interested and supportive and it does make me feel not so alone in this.
Forgot to mention, Fugly I think King County (WA) does have a county ordinance for stallions. When I lived there (with elderly Crabbet-bred Arabian stallion, my “growing up” horse) the ordinance first said your zoning had to permit stallions and secondly that if you were housing one you needed a 5′ electric-enforced fence. Not sure what goes on in King county these days, my experience was some two plus decades in the past.
Have been unable to locate any County ordinance regulating stallions in my area – next step is recruiting the local County Law Librarian to look it up for me.
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/fence/or_fnc.htm
Link to Oregon Livestock laws
There is lots of specific information on what you can do when livestock enters your property, adequate fencing, need to keep your livestock contained and so on, however, there is nothing specific to stallions.
Little Reggie — ya just made me pee my pants! Good lord, have you got that pegged. Only one more thing to add, you forgot to mention why they have 3 or 4 singlewides on their property…when one gets so full of garbage they can’t move any more, they pull in another and just push the other one over. Seen that done a few times.
Now my little story of neighbors who wouldn’t stop their pit bulls from running in my pasture and loved to shoot fire works and practice shooting right next to the pasture. I KNOW they were irritated when my horses (even though they were Arabs) wouldn’t get riled up. One day just one of the pits runs into the pasture while they are having one of their hell raising drunk parties and my Arab mare decides she’s had enough of him. She went for him when he came for her and pinned him to the ground and tore at his back with her teeth. I was saddling my gelding at the time and ran for her when I saw the pit thinking it was HER that was going to get hurt. Guess that “momma instinct” got to her and she would not back down. Of course the party stops and they are all screaming to the pit to get out of there as he’s yipping and crying and I’m just standing in shock, not about to try to get in the middle. The pit finally gets away and with her on his heels and blood flying he makes it to the fence line safety. Never saw the dog again, never saw a party again and the mare goes down in local folk lore as the deadly white devil.
.. never was I so proud of that mare..
We had to wait until a new cop was assigned to our area (since our most annoying neighbor is a retired cop) before we could get any sensible law enforcement out here. Good fences, etc. especially if the horrid neighbor was there first.
However, later when I was riding down the road, he was coming up in his car and he swerved his car towards me while I was on horseback! I went home and called the police and they stated there was nothing they could do because I wasn’t injured.
After that though, I think the guy realized that I could have been KILLED by his little “stunt†because he was nice to us and we never had problems with him again. I think he realized that he had cross the line!
Comment by Driller above:
I not only have a CONCEAL CARRY PERMIT it is also legal here to carry a side arm in the open… rattle snakes, violent county, gangs and self defense and all that. Come at me with you car on a road I have legal access to and maybe you need to learn just how big the bore of a large caliber hand gun is…. as inself defence officer he tried to run ME down!!!!!!! YES, I will sign a complaint and go to court. I like the shotgun idea as well. carried across the saddle pomel and you would not even have to raise it. Contacting the local police or sheriff and telling them quietly in their office that she is in fear of her saftey from various types of assualts might not hurt either. Stressing that they have threatened her with ALL SORTS of physical violence. Maybe someone ought to run a records check on the creeps and maybe that would solve a lot of problmes. They may have records and a violent history……….
I would offer our rental, but we are way too far away for the lady to come.
Ref: the pitbulls killing cats…… Years ago before I married my husband of 15+ years I lived alone on the same property. The guy on the back road a quarter mile away let his golden retrievers run loose. They were not real friendly. I had mares due to foal. I called the guy, told him to keep the dogs at home because if they crossed my fence line I would shoot them. Also told him I had called the sheriff with regards to the l;oose dogs. The dogs quit running. Then this nut case had a GF with a pot bellied pig they kept in the house… you guiessed it … pig got out and came to our place. We corraled the thing, put it in a dog crate and started calling around. The GF was thrilled we had “caught” little 200 pounds worth of “Julie”. We hauled Julie home in the back of the truck still in the dog crate! Many years later same idot let his horses run loose and they were always on our fence line Two properties over… After the night we had to lock OUR stallion in the barn because his horses were tearing down our fences, I called the State Police. They had a talk with this nut case and his horses were promptly penned up as next call from us would be a citation and he had a shakey record as it was. Haven’t seen him in years so I think he moved away. At least his horses and Goldens are gone.
Our rental contract clearly states NO PITBULLS. Period! Had one renter who got one and told them the dog would have to go (we also raise exotic sheep) They tired to tell me it was not a pit, yeah, right. You can get rid of it or I will and I don’t care if your GF’s kids are there or not!!!!! Dog suddenly left as quicky as it showed up. They admitted it was aalso an abused animal… right jst what you want around kids… Thses creeps finally skipped out owing rent after the renter of FIVE years got himself a trashy GF and three kids. Nice call to CYFD helps too!!!! Also have the photos to back that one up!!!
The roommate idea has worked for me. I have redneck neighbors from hell too, and when I moved in to this house by myself, it became clear it was going to be a problem. I was never violently threatened, but I was suffocated and annoyed to death, occasionally scared (drunk/high people knocking on my door at all hours to be social, or hanging outside my windows). At least the violence was not directed at me or my own. I ended up renting a room to my brother-in-law’s cousin – a 6’4, 250+ lb guy who looks like he could do some damage (but it really kind of a puss). The results were immediate. Basically, they just leave me alone, which was all I ever wanted. I have the added bonus of a few extra bucks coming in each month, and someone who can feed the critters if I head out of town.
Good luck to the reader in question. I am sure its a scary situation.
We lived in a neighborhood of 10 acre ranchettes in Florida. The neighbor to the rear of us was great. Kept his pastures in lovely condition by rotating his cattle, his house in good repair, etc. Then he decided to downsize, sold his cattle to us, and moved away. New owners paid cash and little by little, moved in. Then they started to acquire pigs, goats, chickens, cows, a couple of horses, all on 10 acres. They spoke almost no English, didn’t seem to have jobs, but drove a Cadillac Escalade and a couple of new trucks. Our house sat a little bit above their land, so we got an eyefull from our dining room window. Saw them shoot the pigs and butcher them, right in full view, saw them fight the chickens, saw them sic their pitbull on the goats, etc., etc., etc. Soon the 10 acres of green pastures were crossed fenced with wire or anything else they could get their hands on, and there had to be in excess of 40 animals on the place. Pastures became nothing but dirt, and the metal roofs on their poorly constructed animal sheds went flying during Hurricane Wilma. One day the pitbull decided to chase our cattle, but the bull ushered him out of the pasture, with his horns, at a full gallop. They also decided to get a bull of their own, which promptly scaled their fence and ended up in one of our pastures. Then the bull knocked down our fencing and disappeared into the surrounding acreage. I heard that they couldn’t catch him, so they shot him. These neighbors were always playing with guns, always shooting at birds or something. It is a wonder that my horses & cattle never got hit. Local animal control said that people like this were a big problem in the area. They refused to assimilate to our ways, especially with butchering their animals in plain view of well traveled roads & such. We sold the place just before real estate in Florida went belly up, and moved to 40 acres in middle Georgia. Am buffered by the woods, and do not see my neighbors. We are the only ones around that have cattle, and only one neighbor across the road has a horse. Many loose dogs however. So far they don’t pay any attention to the livestock, but doesn’t anyone in Georgia keep their dogs in the backyard? Big problem with unneutered dogs here, too.
Sorta been there done that. One of my friends had an almost identical situation happen with her place except she was the owner of the property. So we checked out the local ordinances and where she was located it was perfectly legal that we hold a shooting competition in her back yard. We set it all up so that it was perfectly safe and then spent the day target practicing a variety of firearms in absolute direct view of the BFND and loving on her horses. Funny thing – they never bothered her again. I guess when you don’t have an intimidating husband who can kick their butt… having a bunch of well armed girl friends works just as well.
I was Googling stallion laws – NH has one about stallion containment, Open Range laws might apply here too – andI found that there used to be state licensing (PDF) of public stallions! They wouldn’t give you a license if your horse was unsound or had heritable defects, and the small fee went to horse programs in the state. Uh, when did this get repealed and what would it take to get it reinstated? Any stallion who can’t pass a vet check shouldn’t be breeding anyway!
>>I was Googling stallion laws – NH has one about stallion containment, Open Range laws might apply here too – andI found that there used to be state licensing (PDF) of public stallions! They wouldn’t give you a license if your horse was unsound or had heritable defects, and the small fee went to horse programs in the state. Uh, when did this get repealed and what would it take to get it reinstated? Any stallion who can’t pass a vet check shouldn’t be breeding anyway!< <
Amen to that. We could get a lot of crap out of the gene pool if the lame ones couldn’t breed. And if “heritable defects” included HYPP, well, how many lives would THAT save?
lol Little Reggie, you are too funny.
Just like the unhappy lowlifes to want to make everyone else unhappy too. I agree with Little Reggie, don’t engage them because that’s what they want.
PS Where do you find friends with narcotics dogs????
Sorry about the typo’s as there is no preview or spell check…..
My husband and I went through this about a year and half ago.
Best advice I can give is to move and to never look back. My husband and I couldn’t afford much when we went through the terror of living next to an ill minded neighbor. We have always been good neighbors. Helping out when we can, we never partied or played loud music, our two horses we had at the time were respectful of the fence line and didn’t pester, and our dogs were quiet and respectful- never leaving the fenced in backyard.
From my experience I can say that normally the rank behavior just escalates. My husband and I lived at this place for a total of 6 months. During that time the neighbor called CPS on us(later dropped when we told the case worker the trouble our neighbor was causing- fortunately the neighbor was too stupid to leave an anonymous tip…she left her name and that she was our neighbor when she called in), called the cops on us stating we were letting our dogs kill her prized $1000 chickens, stole 2 of my dogs and placed them in shelter, stole another of my dogs and held him ransom for $100(which my husband paid despite me stating we need to get the cops involved- b/c he wanted to keep the peace), and when all of that didn’t work- she ended up having her son shoot and kill my husbands horse. He later confessed to police for a lesser charge stating that my husbands horse wasn’t suppose to die, just be hurt enough that we would have to spend lots of money on vet care. Both of our horses were 3 years old and had been raised together since they were weanlings.
I ended up having to purchase a donkey because my paint horse was grieving to the point of not eating and drinking.
God must have answered our prayers because a week after we purchased the donkey my husband was given a business opportunity where we would be able to sell hay from our home and have land to keep our horses. Our new neighbors aren’t the best in the world, but they are far from what we were living next too.
Move and never look back. If she can’t find an immediate place to move then perhaps a reputable rescue in her area would board her old horses as long as she provides feed and proper care during their stay. If she can’t move her horses anywhere then put up electric tape around her fence line to keep the neighbors stallions off. Or get the portable electric fencing and during grazing hours tape off where her horses are allowed to go. Bring the horses in at night and get the large motion operated flood lights.
Also. If she is able, tell her to set up the electric motion detectors on the fence line. You know the ones that you normally place on doors that make loud annoying alarm when a door opens that shouldn’t be opened and has to be turned off using pass code? Tell her to place those facing towards the fence line so anytime the neighbors stallions come near they go off. They’ll be loud enough that the neighbor might get annoyed, the horses might get annoyed and stay off the fence, and also loud enough that your friend will know when something is near that fence.
I don’t have any experience in this kind of situation, but this site seems to be a good resource for finding boarding or property:
http://www.newhorse.com/page/horseboarding/b.510.g.37.html
I live in western oregon, and though I don’t know how near you are to me I could potentially check around in my local area. A friend of mine needs to find a place to board her very expensive show horse anyway.
in Washington state the stallion requirements vary from county to county. I did look them up for Snohomish county at one point because my neighbors 2 loose stud horses kept coming over and trying to fight with mine or get to my one and only mare. I did not bookmark the page I found them on…and it took me a few hours to find it. but sno county says, 6 foot fencing, minimum of 50 feet from property lines. owner of marauding livestock is liable for any and all damage caused by animal. if habitually loose animal is impounded and owner gets fined etc etc. I did print this all out and give to my neighbor. stud horses have been confined since then. he did bitch at me for moving my mare to a pasture that bordered his property, but not my problem, mine isnt loose and he has no right to tell me where I can put my horses on my own property. his stallions couldnt get in with her anyway, 6 strands of tape and wire, ALL six strands hot on a 3 joule box. knock you on your arse you touch it. saw it arc to his stud horses jaw one day and heard a big crack when it hit him, I was 200 feet away. stud horse stays 10 feet off the fence now…I know it hurt. I will try to find the code later tonight. will post them here when I find them again
Hmm, I have never had a neighbour physically threaten my horses, but I have had one that made me worried for their safety. She stole my saddle(I SAW her daughter run into the barn and grab my saddle; ran after her but she got into her house and locked the door before I could reach her), and had padlocks in her hand while telling me that she was going to put them on my horses’ stall doors. The police sorted her out(when they showed up to speak with her she was stumbling and slurring her words, completely drunk, yelling at the officers so I’m sure that helped my case) and I did move within 2 weeks after this all happened.
5chickens said:
“We sold the place just before real estate in Florida went belly up, and moved to 40 acres in middle Georgia. Am buffered by the woods, and do not see my neighbors. We are the only ones around that have cattle, and only one neighbor across the road has a horse. Many loose dogs however. So far they don’t pay any attention to the livestock, but doesn’t anyone in Georgia keep their dogs in the backyard? Big problem with unneutered dogs here, too.”
I live in Middle GA too (transplanted from Southern CA) and was appalled by the amount of un-neutered/unvaccinated dogs on the loose. I live in the southern part of Houston County and have learned not to expect animal control to do anything about any stray or problem dogs unless I catch them and throw them in my kennel first. Otherwise I’ve been advised to “just shoot ‘em”. I keep my place fenced but that didn’t stop the neighbor dog from slaughtering some chickens. I did electrify my immediate back yard (where my dog is contained) so the neighborhood romeos never thought more than once about coming to visit ;]. I’m fortunate that my only whacko neighbor moved out…came home one day and her lot was cleared. They picked up the K-mart pool and the singlewide and moved out…Yay! Still have to deal with otherwise decent neighbors who get crazy with guns and fireworks twice a year. I can never enjoy a New’s Eve or 4th of July out because I have to be home to make sure the horses are in the barn when the guns and fireworks start.
I don’t really know what to tell this person to do! this is a difficult situation that I have been in before and occasionally still find myself in… My farm was originally built as a equestrian community, well years later most of the “horse people” moved out and people who know nothing about horses have moved in, they continuously complain about the horse smell, me stirring up dusk when riding in my ring (they actually called the police on that one). Anyway I really hope you can find a solution for you and your horses. If you lived near me I would say you can keep them here!
Check out these peoples site: they say they have been training horses for 20 years! no pic’s of horses in any tack but, still being advertised as hunter/jumpers or trail horses.
http://photos.celluccisfarm.com/GalleryFilmstrip.aspx?gallery=242878
Check the zoning laws.
When I moved many years back, I went down to the county courthouse to check the county dog laws. They did not refer me to zoning. I complied with all the law I knew about, but crazy neighbor got me in trouble because I had too many dogs. That was in the zoning laws.
Laws for confinement of stallions might be in there, too. Regular cops are usually not up on the zoning laws.
Also check the criminal code. I know that, in some areas, making threats of bodily harm can be a criminal act.
I also vote for surveillance cameras on the fence lines. The technology is getting cheaper and cheaper.
Good luck,
Ruthie
Jumperfarm, ugh! I took a look at that website, and I’m sickened. My guess is someone with no horse knowledge had the dream to “own a farm and raise horses some day,” and they just bought up some land and some horses and let the chips fall where they may. It seems to me (from the few ALL CAPS COMMENTS THAT EXIST ON THE SITE) that they basically relied on the kindness of a few neighbors to show them the basics, and seem to think that after that, they’ve mastered all they need to know regarding horses. Pah!!
BTW, I’ve opened the discussion with my landlords regarding their sons and my horse, and things seem tentatively good. I offered to spend some time introducing them to horses, and my horse in particular, so as to spread some education around AND perhaps get them seriously interested in horses, but I doubt they’ll really take me up on it.
RE that link: WTF is a Walking Stepper? It sounds like a piece of equipment for a stroke victim!
If she has older horses that don’t test fences, there is an easy solution to this issue. Step-in posts are available from Home Depot for something like $2/post. They are lightweight, easy to install, are meant for temporary fencing (though I have used them all summer before without incident), and can hold up to 5 strands of hot wire or hot tape. They are white plastic and available in the aisle where t-posts and fencing supplies are carried. She can place these step in posts a few feet in from the fenceline that joins her nasty neighbor’s place, and put a few lines of hot tape up. She could also use these posts to create smaller turnouts away from the nasty neighbors and keep her horses extra safe.
Coastal Farm and Ranch and Wilco farm stores are located up and down the I-5 corridor from Portland to Eugene, they both carry inexpensive half-inch hot tape generally in yellow or white. You can buy a charger at most farm stores for $50 or less that can charge up to a mile or two of fencing (should be more than adequate unless she has tons of property to fence).
Best of all, this fencing is all temporary: easy to remove in case her landlord comes calling. Nothing permanent. Given that by Oregon law (I used to operate rental properties) a landlord must give 24 hour notice before inspecting the premises, she shouldn’t encounter any anger or backlash from her landlord that the property has been in any way altered.
I was curious to see what everybody suggested about this. I own my 10 acres and I have 2 horses. When I moved in only part of the land was fenced and a neighboring farmer was planting grain on the rest. I tried to make it work for 2 years but I got tired of the amount of hay I was feeding and informed him I would be fencing my 5 acres for pasture. He had an absolute fit! I had to walk the property with him with a tape measure and prove it was my land and he tried every argument he could think of to convince me to let him keep working those few acres. This guy is a big time farmer, he has thousands of acres! Anyway, in retaliation when he combined that fall he dumped a hopper load of peas inside the pasture. Fortunately I found the horses eating them before they got too many. I have them in the new field this year and there are booby traps along the fence line. If he drives his equipment onto my land he’ll end up with flat tires.
I don’t have anything to add to this discussion, but what is up with all of the clickable links in the post and responses? I clicked on “reader” in the second paragraph and up popped an ad for University of Phoenix. Click on horses and you get a websearch for horses. Is this wordpress’ doing?
Find a club in you area that participates in competitive Schutzhund club. Schutzhund dogs are NOT actual protection/guard dogs. They are after the special sleeve, not the actual person. Its just advanced tug of war. People who compete in schutzhund are very good at getting big sucky friendly dogs to LOOK very scary.
PROPERLY trained protection and guard dogs sell anywhere from $10,000 to $40,000 and sometimes more, so I doubt that is an option for you. You don’t really need a guard dog, often times 3 or 4 big scary like dogs (such as a german shepard, belgian malinios, or pit bulls. I would avoid dobermans. Even though they have a rep for being scary, they are the kind of dog that would help someone rob your house, they’re just that friendly) is enough to deter people . A good trainer knows a lot of things you can teach a dog to make it look scary without actually being vicious at all. that could kill it, which is something I would be very concerned about in your situation. Have a trainer help you to teach your dog to start barking, growling and basically going nuts when you tighten the leash and give the command “easy boy/girl”. The dog isn’t being aggressive at all, it just knows to bark and pull on the leash and all the other person see’s is you trying to settle down your “out of control” dog. This would kind of cover your own personal protection, as far as the horses go all I don’t know. As I mentioned earlier, just having the big scary dogs can be a very good deterrence.
Even though your land lord won’t let you actually build more fencing, is there anything stopping you from putting up some temporary capped T-posts with hot tape which our darling fugs seems to swear by? LOL. I had a friend with a similar problem where the land lord wouldn’t allow her to build more fencing, so she talked to her hay guy and he happened to have some old moldy straw/hay 1200lb bales he gave her and she made a temp fence from that. Definately not the greatest, but it did the job, and as long as she kept good hay in there and made sure all the horses could get to it at all times, the horses never touched the crappy stuff.
If its possible for you, I would just move the horses to a friends place until you can find another place to live. I’m sure you thought of that though
Diane, it’s just advertising. If it’s a link I put in there, it’s not underlined. The ad links are underlined if you prefer to avoid clicking on them.
Feeds my old mares, helps me justify the hours I spend working on the blog.
PRS says
I live in Middle GA too (transplanted from Southern CA) and was appalled by the amount of un-neutered/unvaccinated dogs on the loose. I live in the southern part of Houston County and have learned not to expect animal control to do anything about any stray or problem dogs unless I catch them and throw them in my kennel first. Otherwise I’ve been advised to “just shoot ‘emâ€. I keep my place fenced but that didn’t stop the neighbor dog from slaughtering some chickens. I did electrify my immediate back yard (where my dog is contained) so the neighborhood romeos never thought more than once about coming to visit ;]. I’m fortunate that my only whacko neighbor moved out…came home one day and her lot was cleared. They picked up the K-mart pool and the singlewide and moved out…Yay! Still have to deal with otherwise decent neighbors who get crazy with guns and fireworks twice a year. I can never enjoy a New’s Eve or 4th of July out because I have to be home to make sure the horses are in the barn when the guns and fireworks start.
I too, am a California (Northern) transplant, who spent 3 years in Florida (ugh) before moving to Georgia. We are in Northern Wilkinson County. Florida had the same “shoot to kill” rule regarding menacing dogs, as Georgia does. Animal Control told us to go ahead and shoot the neighbor’s pitbull if he continued to chase our cattle. Sorry about your chickens. Mine are in the backyard with my 2 dogs. The chickens rule, and the dogs have a good deal of respect for them. Fortunately, we haven’t had any problem with the loose dogs, as they stay away from the animals, the house, and the yard. But still, I wish people would take some responsibility for their animals.
fhotd says:
September 4, 2009 at 10:23 am
drsgjunky – I was just recently told by law enforcement that the stallion fence requirements law is a myth. There are none. Do you have a cite to prove otherwise? Want to save me the trouble of looking it up?
=====
A number of years back Redmond, WA passed zoning laws requiring specific fencing of stallions. You would have to check local city or county zoning laws for a specific area. Zoning can vary widely depending upon location. I would also check with AC in a specific location. They may be more familiar with zoning requirements concerning stallions.
Now if this were my place in Oregon. I’d drop the fence (at night), open a stall next to a mare with feed and return said GELDING in the morning. Oh Darn… He must have jumped the fence and caught a post on the way over.
I agree with Ozzie, target practice!!!! Love that and I am not kidding.
At one time, in another location, I had many weird neighbors. The worst were those who let their aggressive dogs run loose. One day, while I rode quietly along a county road near my house, a pack of chows clambered over their too-short fence and chased me and my horse through the desert. I mean that we galloped and the dogs still kept chasing. Finally one of them bit my horse’s leg, (fortunately, it didn’t wound the horse), whereupon my horse kicked the dog (first and only time he ever kicked anything in 10 years). Then the owner DROVE HIS CAR INTO THE OPEN DESERT AFTER ME, yelled, cursed me, and threatened, “I’ll get you and your horse, all your horses,” because, he said, I “provoked (his) poor dogs” and “upset them on purpose.” He said his prize chow (!!) was now injured because of me. I spoke to him politely even though he called me an “F-ing B**ch” because I wanted to call the police and to have no reason for them to blame me. When I called the sheriff’s office, they offered to send an Animal Control agent, but I said I wanted deputies to visit the guy and impress on him that he could not threaten people just for riding past his property. Deputies came to my house first, and agreed that he had no right to, first, let his dogs out (dogs don’t just “get out”; the law says they have to be contained, and also that homeowners can shoot dogs that threaten their livestock. Even though this didn’t take place on my property, the dogs pursued ME, and the guy had no right, first to improperly contain them, and next to pursue and threaten me.) About six months later I rode by there again, and when their chows started barking, the woman on the property turned herself inside out to gather them up and put them indoors.
Call the sheriff or police early, often, and calmly. Document everything. As others have said, never lose your temper in front of the idiots or the police. Take pictures. Use voice operated recorders when you talk to them or they talk to you (perps OR police!) And others’ advice has all been good, too. I have tons more dismal stories but I’ll spare you. I lost many animals to my ignorant, indifferent neighbors’ dogs, but fortunately my horse was never really harmed.
I agree with other posters, put up an electric fence. It’s not permanent, so your landlord shouldn’t fuss. Won’t cost you and arm and a leg, and if you put the tape close together with the bottom one low, it should stop the pitbulls too. Another thing I would suggest is take in a rescue donkey or mule. They are protective, and would go after the dogs if they come on the property. The put up a warning sign that the mule/donkey will kick and bite, should keep the people out too. I have known of mules who have taken down nasty stallions twice their size.
The problem with all the legal advise is that people like this don’t care about legal ramifications, and they will just take it out on the horses. Better to protect yourself, while you see what can be done through the legal system.
Several years ago I moved to acreage in central California. Within a few years, our westerly neighbor decided that the way he would support himself without working was to raise fighting roosters. By the time he was up to about 100 of the poor creatures, I visited him and said that the incessant crowing was not allowing us to sleep, and by the way, are those chickens illegal? He told me to pound sand, that he had a right to raise any animals he wanted to. I circulated a petition whereby 27 of the adjoining neighbors signed it, asking that he cease and desist the rooster raising operation. That is when he decided to started to threaten me, my horses, my dogs, my children. I called the Sheriff who did pretty much nothing. A dear friend said Zoning and Planning was my answer. Sure enough, he needed a special commercial chicken permit. When Zoning requested that permit and he refused, they found he had refused to obtain other permits on two commercial properties he owned. When he just continued to pay the daily fine of $100, not only did they get an a judge’s order to bring his chicken population down to 25 with a limitation of two roosters, they sued him for unlawful restraint of trade for repeatedly refusing to obtain permits. Within one month of the county forcing him to remove his roosters, he put the property up for sale. A lovely pair of ladies bought the property and planted a nice quiet vineyard.
We stayed there for years, happy with all the neighbors.
I had one worse- the barn I boarded at was leased out by a single woman who did a top notch job of caring for horses. She had a 6 year lease and after two years the owners wanted to kick her out. So they sent people to poison her horses and sent toughs to rough us up. Luckily we’d acquired a big wolf cross as a barn dog who chased the toughs away. Eventually we ended up moving- it just wasn’t safe anymore.
I would document everything they say and do that seems threatening just in case. Write down time and dates.
iwould have someone stop in when she isnt home for a while to check up on things. I live in a neighborhood of horse spoiling people. I have neighbors that keep an eye on things as well. If she gets a guard dog or a mule that kicks and she has posted a sign saying so and they get hurt there could be a lawsuit because she has a “dangerous” animal and in court the posted warning sign means that the owner is well aware of that animal. Its hard to say though. but people like that would go after you even if they are in the wrong by coming onto the property in the first place. I just want to wish her the best of luck.
Little Reggie got it perfectly: “Trashy people love to fight, and they love it when feuds escalate.”
Oh, do they ever. I’ve had brushes with this herd, and they’re pure hell to deal with. They know the system backward and forward, and every cop in town and every person working at the courthouse greets them with a big “Hiya, Bill.” If they manage to lose in court or with the cops, they’re the first ones to call the local newspaper’s sob column with a tale of woe about how a mean old neighbor is picking on them. They make you question the validity of Darwinism, because you can never figure out how people who have their drippy-nosed, foul-mouthed, half-naked children playing with their pit bulls, setting off munitions on the 4th, riding motorcycles cross country, wandering around at midnight alone at age 4, etc., can manage to raise any offspring to maturity. If you move against them, they will move against you 100% harder. Complain that they’re shooting bazookas at your house? They’ll swear you attacked them with a tank. Your best hope is that they’ve already worn out their welcome with local judges, who will recognize their reappearance in their courtrooms as a PLAINTIFF as a sign of the apocalypse.
>>Little Reggie got it perfectly: “Trashy people love to fight, and they love it when feuds escalate.â€< <
LOL, well, that’s one of the major reasons we now have moderation. I understand all the major feuds continue on the FiSH board, if anybody misses them!
Just in case any of you are in the mood for a BYB trainwreck:
Appy crosses
Wormy? Check. In need of hoofcare? Check. Weird registry? Check. I can say that the horses look well fed.
Not really a horror story but a way to deal with kids…
I was renting a place when it was sold to a family with 8 kids (AACK!). I was noticing rock in the pasture and water tanks and found out the youngest 3 were throwing rocks at the horses to make them run. HMMM, not good but I did have a great relationship with the Mom. Told her what happened and butts were swatted…it stopped for a bit but it happened again. I went to Mom and Dad and asked if I could talk to the boys one-on-one. I got down to their eye level and basically talked to them and told them I knew what they were doing and explained why they shouldn’t do that, etc, etc. I told them their Mom and Dad had given me permission to punish them if it happened again but asked them to promise me not to do it again. They did and it never happened again. Sometimes if you just reason with kids….course, the fear of me punishing them probably had something to do with it too…LOL
Course, I won’t go into the time the youngest used my gelding’s tail as a swing….
been there done that, i had 10 acres in Gwinnett county that i was leasing at 1,500.00 a month, no neighborsfor the first 2 to 2.5 years, everything was great. then the rich people bought some land next door and built a house, and a small really nice barn, good board fence. they put their 17 hand warmblood in this fencing, he was going nuts cause he was alone, they were scared of him jumping out so i lent them one of my geldings until they could find hmi a companion. bout 2 months. they got a small donk jack so i took my gelding home, after i helped unload this unruly little beast out of the trailer and into the barn(they ended up having me help reload it after a couple months cause it ate her expensive horses tail off, lol. I had barn cats for rat control because of the chicken houses nextdoor, bout 5 or 6, all fed and cared for nicely, they bitched about my cats, so i got rid of all but like 3 (which i then kept in the house) then they didnt like my chickens, so i got rid of them (waa, no more fresh eggs which i used to give to a guy friend cause between him and his wife had 5 kids and couldnt afford a lot and lord knows i couldnt eat 10 chickens produce) took in a rescue colt (bout a 1-1.5 on the scale) they bitched about him until i had him all caught up, and i must admit, what a diamond that was hiding in him, absolutely beautiful paint colt with all papers, I put a good start on him and rehomed him. then they started griping about the mexicans that were boarding their 4 horses out there(hehe, used to play their music, which i would have them turn off at dusk). also one night at about 2am i knew something was out near my barn so i went to investigate, found their horse and donk had broke out and was loose, so i caught them up at o’dark thirty by myself and put them back into their pasture and tied their gate shut with one of my halters. any way, then had to get rid of the mexicans and their horses (which of course had helped pay the bills, at 450 a month board apiece and i didnt even have to feed them or do their stalls) what good boarders they were, horses were in impeccable shape and got the best care. well when my lease was up i hightailed it outta there… karma is a heifer, lol saw her horse later over at a trainers, in another state mind you. he had always been too much for her to handle, she babied him to much and wasnt stern enough. well she was having this trainer work with him and resell him for her, i got the biggest kick outta that.
oh and what kind of person that has horses mowes their pasture with a belly mower every 2 weeks? i thought the point of having a pasture was so that you horse could eat the grass it produced therefore knocking down the amount money that would be spent on hay/feed???
I don’t have any experience as a landlord or tenant, as I own my horse property. I am the only person with horses on my section of road (ok, 1 lane cow path). As far as BFND, the gene pool in redneck BFE is pretty small.
I have on many occasions called the county sheriff for trespassing. One dipstick drove into my front yard after midnight, parked next to my bedroom window (wtf?!) and was headed down my fence line to gig frogs in the pond, spooking my horses in the process. The sheriff showed up and escorted them off the property. They never returned.
I’ve enjoyed uninvited ATVs, fireworks, (with a couple hundred acres of dry wheat behind my property) horse-chasing dogs, drunks, and hunters. I even had the farmer drive his combine down my lane to my barn and hit my LQ gooseneck. Same guy forgets to raise whatever implement he’s using and regularly tears chunks out of the road.
The BFND are trailer trash that upgraded to an old farm house. They have vehicles and campers parked everywhere. The one kid drives a pick-up with a set of balls hanging from the bumper. Lovely. I bought the property between my house and them and put in a sand ring as a buffer zone.
Anyways, they jumped my husband for spreading manure on the back 200 acres. They illegally burn garbage that smells worse and blows into my pasture. My husband has asked them not to shoot fireworks, also illegal. This kind of crap just goes back and forth.
Owning and knowing how to use a hand gun or rifle/shotgun is an excellent suggestion. I warned previous bfnd that their dog was destroying my property. Warning was not heeded, and I took loaded rifle out for target practice. Nuff said.
I have a 100+ lb rott in my barn. No one questions her. I also have a jack russell and a rat terrier in the house that in all honesty are more likely to go at an intruder. My dogs let me sleep nights I am alone.
I hope you can find a suitable place to move. I would love a good horse lovin’ neighbor like you. Good luck!
Document absolutely EVERYTHING. I mean exact statement, time and date, all incidents involving dogs, horses, vet bills, etc. Make a log. Tell police, (don’t ask them to do anything) just to have a record. Use hot tape or panels to keep the horses safe. Calling police is considered a cardinal sin with these types, so make that a last resort. I don’t suppose there’s any chance they’re renting, so she could talk to the landlord?
In the mean time her best option is to try to make nice with the wackos. I know, it’s icky, but it’s better to have wacko allies than wacko enemies.
I don’t have any advice about crazy neighbours, but I’m wondering if anyone has a link to this FiSH board? I’ve never been and I’m getting curious. :p
Didn’t happen to to me but happened to a friend- while the family were on holiday their thick neighbour moved the fence to enclose a big lump of field as his land. As if no one would notice that suddenly there was a fence running through the strawberry patch! Luckily the husband is a property developer so he was able to set the neighbour straight on the possible legal consequences of such actions
Well, unfortunately, you can count me in on a slightly uncomfortable pasture situation.
It has been a horrible year for grass in our area of Arkansas this year. May was exceptionaly rainy, and they say it damaged the root systems. June was exceptionally hot, the grass started to go dormant. July had some mild temps and rain, but the pastures never seemed to quite recover. August turned out ok, but the pastures still didn’t look all that great.
That is why we were so extatic when friends just a couple of “blocks” away from our pasture turned out to have a pasture we could use for Free!!! It’s about 20 acres, crossfenced. We promptly brought the horses and 4 cows over. That is when we first met the actual land owner – a cousin of the friend. She informed us not to pay any mind to her ex-husband, if he ever showed up. That gave me a tinge of worry.
Well tonight we brought back 2 horses to the pasture, about 9:30 p.m. only to find all our animals in the part of the pasture they weren’t supposed to be in. 2 gates were found open, but not pushed out, instead they were clearly opened “in”, the locking chains were unclipped, unhooked, unlocked. We called “the cousin”. Her quick response was that her ex did it. Because he knew that she was going to be off to her 20th class reunion that day. Sure, it’s minor hassel, but that part of the pasture was closed off because it has bad fence on the back side and the animals could’ve gone into some deep “jungle” of the neigbours’. Which is where the “cousin’s” goats are right now, I’m sure.
I think we’ll be moving the animals out shortly. There are 2 sources of water on the place – a small pond and a water trough. If the “ex” added enough antifreeze to either – that would be the end for all of our riding horses and our 2 best milkers.
TANSTAAFL (there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch)…
When I was in high school we had a neighbor who would let our horses out of their pasture while we were gone. We pad locked it and they cut the lock, we called the police but they did nothing. Finally my Dad put up 2 security cams, they were hidden but still able to record the entire pasture. We caught the neighbor on tape then went to the police. They were charged with trespassing and criminal mischief. They had let our horses out more than 10 times in a span of 2 months. The criminal mischief charge was a felony because the cost of the damage was more than $1000. They had to pay us back for all the repairs.
I think that I would possibly put in a temporary electric fence to move my horses farther from the stallion, but without knowing the lay of the property, it is hard to say. I can really feel for your reader, and hope that she has a solution soon. I always had a hard time finding “horse friendly” rentals, and they are getting really scarce. Maybe an additional hot rope above the existing boundry fence…
I had a neighbor’s stallion get out of his single strand hot wire, and race up and down my fence line. Also was a rental situation, so that side was an 8 strand barbed wire and blackberry bushes. He made a huge path up and down that line by crashing thru the bushes. Between blackberries and barbed wire, he had a dozen or so loooooong scratches along his sides…. We were accused of trying to slice him with a knife…. It is always somebody else’s fault… However, it wasn’t my horses that were running all over neighboring property…. They eventually got rid of him, since they were totally afraid of him…
Update
It was a quiet 3-day weekend because “they” were out of town so my horses had a desperately needed turn-out for several hours each day. I didn’t trust “them” not returning at any moment so needless to say I just got a good book and babysat the whole time figuring if they drove up I could get my guys in before they could even haul their sorry a—s out of their rigs. They returned late Monday night (Labor Day) and immediately went into their barn and turned the PA system on WARP LOUD which is of course very very cruel to the horses which are inside their barn.
In the meantime I have found several rental possibilities and hope to give my idiot landlord notice at the first of October (in this state 30 days notice is required) that I am moving. Idiot because HE was the one who started the fight with these neighbors who decided to take out their unhappiness not just on me but on what I care about most in this world, my animals. I do have retired friends who watch the place while I am at work.
What I can tell you is that these people are very wealthy, they have a big group of illegals “working” for them, one of whom appears to be training pits and pit mixes for fighting, and these same illegals appear to be raising roosters for fighting – very similar to another poster here. Since my networking efforts began a couple of weeks ago trying to find a new and safe place for my horses and me, I have learned plenty from others in this area – these people are notorious, the only thing “new” is the “green card marriage” of the property owner to one of her, um, “staff.”
I very much appreciate the suggestions useful, humorous or both and very much appreciate the outpouring of strong support. “Neighbor trouble” tends to be dismissed by Animal Control, by law enforcement, by attorneys and by the court system as being “PITA stuff” conveniently forgetting that people and animals sometimes lose their lives because of the kinds of people a lot of you describe in your posts.
I look forward to being out of this rental and where they can’t get to my horses or to me, not only for the peace of mind and better life for my “oldsters” but also because, once safe, I do plan to have an absolute field day on the legal end of things!
WE Own a place and went through something similar with a stallion. we are in California and in Open range. our next door neighbor has over 80 acres and is not so much a breeder (breeder to me denotes selling some!) as someone who does no care or training on her horses, the mares foal and she just leaves the foals out there. no handling or human interaction at all. just through s hay out there twice a day. pretty soon you have a three or four year old stallion who has seen people at a distance when they put out hay. we have property that adjourns one of her pastures, only have 15 acres, and make sure all of our horses are well cared for and at least are halter broke (as in show ring!), trailer, see the vet at least once a year, and the farrier a minimum six times a year.
the last time she left one of her “stallions” out in the adjourning pasture we actually called animal control and simply “asked” them what to do with a wild stallion owned by someone. animal control was over there in an hour. we have never had a problem with her studs again. the animal control came over afterwards because the neighbor said we have stallions as well. laughed when we showed her our little 32″ and 33″ mini stallions in a six foot no climb fence with hot wire along the top. said that is a slight amount of overkill. (really its to protect them from predators) also complemented on how sweet tempered they where and asked if she could bring her kids out to see them.
Amie in Oak Run, Ca
she should check her animal control laws, I do know my Aunt in so Oregon has to provide
Wow…my sympathy to you! I wish there was something I could do (not much from 2500 miles away). We have had THOSE neighbors. It stinks and is beyond frustrating…especially when it becomes a real fear for your animals situation.
We bought our current home right before we got married a few years ago…in our eagerness to hurry up and buy something where our horses could be with us we didn’t look too closely at the next door neighbors (they seemed to keep to themselves and be fairly innocuous). We didn’t know they had just moved in recently themselves and hadn’t had a chance to show their true colors.
And oh the nightmare began. We moved our horses into their newly fenced paddocks and received comments on ‘how nice’ they looked (well yes…unlike many in our immediate area they were fed and groomed regularly). We should have known this was going to go downhill when the owner and his son (teenager who had recently ‘moved back in’), carrying beers in hand, proudly introduced their pitbull mix dog and wanted to know if our dog ‘was mean’ or ‘would fight’. *sigh* That dog got out repeatedly…and a few weeks later while on our honeymoon we got a call from the house sitter letting us know “the horses are ok” (Oh GOD! No good comes from a phone call that starts that way!)…but a dog had clearly been running the horses in their paddocks, the gate had been crashed down and the horses we’re ok but cut up a little. It took us TWO WEEKS to get the neighbors to confess it was their dog..and you know what? They laughed about how funny it was when they told us! We put in woven wire, board topped perimeter fencing, locked gates, etc after that. And I still got to where I wouldn’t leave for very long out of fear for my animals.
Yes..it got worse from there. As many as 8 dogs (including pits) chained up, the son moved in and out and when he was there he dealt drugs. Their friends went dove hunting by shooting over our property fences right over our dairy goat herd. A constant turn-over of state funded baby mamas. Loud music (one afternoon they deliberately set up their stereo outside while we were working, jacked the volume up all the way…and went inside and turned on their tv and stayed there). They thought nothing of their dogs barking non-stop all night, breaking loose, killing livestock, etc. (Of course…they had a little girl of about 4 that we watched coax one of their puppies to her and then kick it repeatedly. A little boy would catch the cat and wave it in the pit’s face, throw rocks at it and worse). I felt sorry for the poor dogs that rarely got fed and lived on chains. The grandkids would throw large sticks over the fence trying to hit our animals (yes..HIT them). The had huge collections of trash (they would open the back door and throw bagged garbage outside and leave it there), piles of scrap appliances, etc. No one cleaned up after the dogs. It got absolutely nasty and their fly breeding operation begin to be a major problem for US. I got to the point I was terrified to leave, kept all my animals in smaller quarters close to the house and cried more often then not because I couldn’t even enjoy going outside or spending time with my horses.
When my husband’s mother passed away we had no choice but to leave everything in the hands of our farm sitter – she said she came home one day and found some girl that was staying next door sitting outside. She ran up to our friend and said “I think your pony is dead…it’s been laying down for awhile. I threw rocks at it and stuff but it won’t get up”. (The pony was taking a nap and probably hoping to go unnoticed by the neighbors for the remainder of the week). Our friend tried to educate her on the fact horses DO lay down and DO NOT like rocks thrown at them, but it didn’t really click.
It just kept deteriorating. We tried calling animal control – and an above poster is absolutely correct. The second they decide it’s a ‘neighbor vs neighbor’ thing they no longer care. We were immediately written off after the first visit by the animal control officer. It took letters to the top of the food chain, a DVD recording of the nighttime symphony, letters from witnesses to events and the offer to go as high as I needed before we saw any kind of response. (the AC probably doesn’t like me now, but he DOES have a job to do!).
When it became clear that they had no respect for anyone, anything or even the local laws we were at loss. My husband has his own way of handling it. When the kid started dealing drugs (and cars would pull up right next to our house) he would promptly turn on all the flood lights and open the door and make it clear he was writing down descriptions of cars. When we burned off some ground cover and were raking it up one evening, he stopped me from raking up a burnt patch directly under the ‘warning electric fence’ sign – he told the neighbor’s kids that was what happened when the cat walked under it and touched the fence (I have to admit…it sounds awful but it worked for awhile!). He routinely target practiced with a variety of firearms and large, scary looking friends. We let tons of fly predators loose on the property line hoping some would find their way into their garbage piles. We made friends with local sheriff deputies and let them park in our driveway whenever they needed to (THAT put a stop to a lot).
We tried for 6 months to move…the market had tanked, finding a buyer for our house was nearly impossible. We decided to rent it out only to have our offer on another home fall through. We were miserable. All we could do was constantly pray for some sort of break in the situation. And suddenly…one day…SILENCE. Yep…they got foreclosed on and moved. WOOHOO!!!! While I would never wish foreclosure on anyone we were SOOOO relieved the day they vanished! Since then the bank has repaired and cleaned up the property and we’re now praying steadily for GOOD neighbors (or even better, NO neighbors!)
Good for your for being willing to tackle them legally once you are safely out of harms’ way! We were investigating the same thing ourselves (now we don’t know where they are and it’s a moot point I suppose). My husband was determined if they could run us out we were going to make their life a steady stream of inconvenient inspections, warrants and lawsuits once we were gone.
BTW – I DO understand not wanting to confront. I’m not a easily scared person, but these neighbors wigged me out and I was far more scared of what would happen to my animals.
jumperfarm: The Celluci Farm is (relatively speaking) local to us. Let’s just say those photos? Well, they’re the ‘best side’ of those people. They do NOT have the best of reputations. We had one talk with them (before we heard from others experiences) regarding boarding and ran screaming in the other direction. We’re not the only ones
Hoo boy – there is a ranch in my area where lots of crazy people rent. Apparently, one loony rented the place then brought in a loony roommate ending up with about 8 people, all of whom need meds, but not taking any, or else ‘self medicating’. I am not kidding.
One of these people was a woman who claimed her housemates, the neighbors, and the sheriff was after her. Someone was always “assaulting” her but not enough to actually press charges or move away. Never any bruises or scratches, but her life was in danger despite all those boasts about her firearms. Also, a neighbor’s stallion, a 100 bobcat , a 500 pound mountain lion were stalking her horses and ponies. (She had it all on film, but the sheriff wouldn’t believe her!) Everytime she got really upset, she would fire her shotgun, then the sane neighbors would call the sheriff. Or the landlord would call the sheriff. Or else, she called the sheriff herself because the neighbors were after her (for firing the shotgun) . The sheriff REALLY dreaded a call from her. She was 5150′d for a while, then said the sheriff had her committed just for their personal entertainment. The one thing she can still do is take decent care of her horses! She was so irrational that nobody could take her seriously, or else told her where to get mental health assistance which infuriated her. She was upset at not getting enough attention so she escalated the claims. Now she’s dying! So that’s the highly undesirable neighbor that is every kind of trouble except for the horses. She has moved out of the area and is no doubt terrorizing a her new neighbors with wild claims and a waving shotgun. Unfortunately, one of these days, I suspect she detiora so much that the horses will be in trouble.
If I were her, I would be getting a video camera and voice activated recorder. I’d confront them about it while the voice recorder was on, and tempt them into saying something. Then the police can do something, as it’s a threat that she has documented. Or I’d get myself a rifle. I’m not the kind of person who likes to take shit from people so I wouldn’t sit there doing nothing. It’s her property, she was there first and they have no right. I wouldn’t mind getting some video camera’s installed around the property either. Would it be possible for her to put up temporary fencing at all? It’s not ideal, but she could just run some electric tape around the area, although you probably already thought of that one.
I forgot another suggestion in my last post, you could also let the police use their drive way as a speed trap, that should hopefully stop them, and that way they will have a chance to become friends with the local authorities, so if anything ever does happen it will be helpfull. I shouldn’t take credit for that one, I actually read it on Y! as a solution for speeding cars near a barn.
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