I love you BYB’s, you are just awesome!
Dec 23 2007
As I read through my 431 piled-up e-mails, I came across this gem:
Subject:
Problem wanting to be solved
http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/
That is the link to my worrys. This person is giving unsportsly man contact with what she/he has writen. That info on there is mine. The pictures on there are mine. I would like you to help me find a propor solution to this. I want this deleted or erased. I want this user blocked from blogspot. Please get back to me,
Niki
nikic27@windstream.net
~~~~~~~~~~
Niki:
1. You didn’t e-mail Blogger/Google. You e-mailed me. I don’t have a problem with anything I’ve done, therefore your demands are highly unlikely to be met with any action.
2. The problem is wanting to be solved? Sweetie pie, a problem can’t want to be solved. A problem does not have the capability to even know it is a problem, much less want to be solved!
3. worrys = worries
unsportsly man = unsportsmanlike? Say what?
writen = written
propor = proper
4. I am getting back to you, Niki, per your request. I have no idea which fugly or collection thereof you’re responsible for, because all you provided was the link to my main page. However, I appreciate the fact that you’ve provided my readers with yet another example of someone who is too dumb to be involved in horse breeding and should probably be provided with a more appropriate hobby. I believe a previous poster mentioned a Sea Monkeys breeding kit that we could provide to people like you so that you could exercise your desire for creation without adding to the slaughterhouse supply chain. If you’d like to show up and post your address, I’ll get one of those out to you ASAP!
Merry Christmas!
251 comments to “I love you BYB’s, you are just awesome!”
« Previous 1 2 3 Next »
« Previous 1 2 3 Next »
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
nyxin said…
FHOTD has been a great addition to the ways in which I spend my late nights and has given me a million laughs!
Seconded, although my version should read:
FHOTD is the way in which I spend my late nights!
Since moving to BFE with no TV, no nightlife, no movie theaters, no nuthin’ I am entirely too dependent on the Fug for my daily entertainment. It makes the $60/mo dial-up speed rural internet worth it!
OT but I need to share (and I thought I might make Spirit’s day). Just got back from taking my mare to the vets for preg test. Bugger bugger not in foal. There goes several thousand down the drain. Used chilled semen this service but if I want to use the same stallion again I’ll have to use frozen (which means the conception rate falls from 80% to 50%). Bugger bugger. Should have known it was all going too well!!
Merry Christmas all.
Farmer’s Wife–Brilliant! Chia Pets are better than Sea Monkeys.
Crunchberry’sMom–Thanks, but I’m as (compootor) illiterate as some of the BYB’s/poor excuses for trainers/idiot sellers people come across here. Still, it’d be worth learning just for that, and I’d include a link to this site if FuglyHorse gave it a thumbs-up (anyone who actually KNOWS what the hell they’re doing, please take this idea and run with it)!
Starrynight–Don’t. I’m also something of a Garden Weenie and now you’re making me WANT that topiary horse…Worse, there’s a topiary unicorn form for sale by me; as someone who loves Mythical Beasts and Thurber, I’m getting crazy ideas every time I drive by that nursery http://btflatt.tripod.com/stories/thurb1.htm
Re: ESL. Geez, it’s not my Mom’s 1st language either and she came here in her mid-30′s–but she’s waaaaaaay ahead of This One. When she isn’t sure of something, she proofreads/asks. I know enough pidgin Serbian/Serbo-Croatian to say that nowhere do I see the word for horse–”Konj”. So I’m assuming it’s not a BYB, just a garden-variety spammer who doesn’t know the 1st thing about hors–oh, wait…the BYB’s we hear from here don’t know the 1st thing about horses, either. Nevermind.
http://www.freewebs.com/sandcreektrainingandtack/sugarbearsafeforall.htm
The photos on this page are a must see! You can slide off his rear, and climb underneath. Yup, pictures show it all. WTF do people think it’s OK to crawl underneath a horse???
I’m not endorsing it as a good idea, and would smack someone for dismounting off the poor beast’s butt, but you have to admit his patience is the selling point. I think my biggest problem w/it isn’t so much that they’re pushing how quiet he is, but that a.) nobody’s wearing a damn helmet, and b.) any number of brain-donors will think they can do all this with _their_ horse, too, no matter how bad-tempered. Um, No.
Ohhhhh a carol!!! (just made this up on the fly… may have bad spelling.. kids are going nuts.. gotta go)
On the first day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
A stallion with a roach back and some really bad knees….
On the second day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me….
Some horses in barbed wire and feet made of clubs
On the third day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
A link to some French horses
The riders on the ground face first a restin’
On the fourth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Calling for Stacey and Clinton for some REALLY bad attire a wearin…
On the fifth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
FIVE GOLDEN HORRIBLE JUG HEAD NO HIP APPALUSIANARABIANS…….
On the sixth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Six inbred mustangs a laying
(Each other)
On the seventh day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Seven meese a swimming…
On the eighth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Eight yearlings never weaned from their fugly mother….
On the nineth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Nine ladies being featured on this blog a bitching…
On the tenth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Ten rank horses for re-homing fee a leaping…
On the eleventh day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
Eleven Darwin BYB winners that made me piping mad…
On the twelth day of Christmas
Fugly gave to me…
A fat lady falling off and making me hit the table with laughter a drumming…..
Eleven BYB Darwin winners
Ten rank horses a leaping
Nine ladies bitching
Eight milking yearlings
Seven meese a swimming
Six inbred mustangs
FIVE GOLDEN HORRIBLE JUG HEAD NO HIP APPALUSIANARABIANS…….
Four calls for Stacey and Clinton
Three riders thrown to the ground face first a restin’
Two horses imprisioned by barbed wire with feet made of clubs….
And a stallion with a roach back and some really bad knees….
Ta Da!!!!
Nyxin – Chortle
Taldara – you and me both, we would make Spirit proud at the moment!
Horses4Me
Oh lord, that website is just ALL kinds of wrong
I’ve never seen soemone who sold tack think that the saddle belonged ON THE NECK *rolls eyes*
Now that was hilarious.
Just for the record, another fun virtual horse game is Ponybox. I play both it and Howrse daily. I have an Appy stallion on Ponybox that is kicking major ass in reining classed and his first foal was rated all 10′s in conformation.
http://www.ponybox.com
Dear Nyxin and Sally, you have stolen my thunder (and I know where you live!) yet I salute you both for your hChristmas rhymes. The Twelve Days is especially close to my heart and out here in the Pacific Northwest we have our own version involving clams, otters, mudflats, and the Space Needle.
Starrynightxxi, I vote for your topiary trees over the chia pets, though someone’s idea of the pet rocks has merit.
Not to reopen the public vs private vs homeschooling debate (aren’t you proud of your group, FHOTD, with our varied interests and opinions?) but I see the result of BYBs creating kids who will never become contributing members of society or good citizens. Their genes and upbringing are against them from before birth. Our small town, population 2000, still has a raw scar from one of our teachers being murdered in our building four years ago. The perpatrators were teenage gangsta wannabees from the next town whose take in the murder cum robbery was $464 and a box of Ritz crackers. Still recovering from this, only three days ago two other teenage boys stabbed to death their sister and mother. Our twon is too small to stand these insults and believe me we are holding our dear ones close this Christmas as patrol cars and news vans and flashing lights clash with the Chrismtas lights on our far flung rural houses.
The worst is that all of the “kids” in these incidents were already inside the system: juvenile court, probation, malicious mischief, stealing cars, etc. etc. WHY cannot SOMEONE take action with these offenders before they escalate to murder??!!
I raise this issue because as the backgrounds of these kids becomes known through the news, they come from poor stock—alcoholics, batterers, absent fathers, abuse, all the usual icky stuff. Perhaps fifteen years ago they were someone’s little baby boys, but I feel they never should have been born in the first place. A bitter attitude, but I knew the teacher and the young girl slain—THEY had value!!!!
And on that cheerful note I wish everyone I’ve met through FHOTD a Merry Christmas and hope all your horses sleep deep in fresh bedding munching on sweet hay. After all, it all started in a stable.
OT-I just wanted to say that my husband has now gotten into the grove of upgrading horses.
I found a weanling Draft/QH cross on Dream Horse the other day. I told hubby about this filly and the circumstances she was in and he said make an offer. I did and she is now ours.
The next one is a 15 yr old Appendix QH gelding who is just wasting away in a paddock. He is with our new mare and he was for sale, so hubby said “let’s upgrade him too!”. So he made an offer on him and of course she accepted cuz we are buying our mare from her too.
So now we have upgraded three horses in the past two months. We have done a little bit to help out some horses in our area and we hope that we can upgrade some more in the summer.
For those BYB moronadons who want to transition into something a little less challenging:
http://www.sea-monkeys.com/
My friend showed me this site and it didn’t take me long to decide that….You’re all a bunch of fucking losers who need to get lives! Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than pick other people/other people’s horses apart, honestly.. come on.. grow up *shakes head*
I have to say, I find your spite of a level so low, it makes me feel shame to be a part of the human race.
You would have to be the most spiteful people I have ever come into contact with.
I do know that “what goes around, comes around”
May you all receive 10 fold of that which you give to those you burn.
I may not agree with the breeding of fuglies, but you show yourselves as being far worse than those you burn, with your pitiful spite.
May your Christmas be as empty as your hearts.
You know, the “propor solution to this” is for Niki to stop doing whatever it is that made her an example of a bad horse person. *She* has the ability to make the change so she never winds up being ridiculed by knowledgeable horse people again.
Do what is right, Niki, and we will cheer you on!
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!
And I see the Scrooges showed up–YK001 and Linda.
Linda, I’m going to guess that you’re the same “Linda” who was roasted on this blog recently, the one who was teaching an unruly Appaloosa stallion to rear so he’d be more “managable.” I recall that you brought your cadre of friends and family to the blog to denounce us all.
However, Linda and YK001, I wish you both a very merry Christmas. And I hope the upcoming year is good to you, both emotionally and financially. Perhaps then you might find the time and money to move into hobbies that don’t involve ruining living creatures by teaching them dangerous habits.
And to the rest of the folks on Fugly’s blog–Merry Christmas to ya’ll too! It’s a joy to read the stories and comments. This is such a vibrant and outspoken community.
I wish you all a happy holiday season. Thank you for being the bright, challenging, knowledgeable bunch that you are. <3
Nyxin! Your 12 Days Of Christmas carol had me SPRAYING my morning coffee all OVER my laptop! JUST mopped it up in time! Sheesh! Thank heavens I wasn’t doing the eggnog/mulled wine/Christmas punch thing. Cleanup would have reviled the Exxon Valdiz.
Guess it just goes to show, you really CAN’T drink liquids and read this FHotD…
Happy Holidays to all!
To Linda et al,
Creating horses whose only future is a sad miserable life and then the slaughterhouse is evil. To do it as a pastime, amusing hobby or a ‘business’is sick..sick..sick.
FHOTD and followers are calling these people for what they are. Save your pity for the horses who are born with a one way ticket to the dinner plate via hell because some fuckwit thought horse breeding could make them a few bucks.
Those that are getting flamed on here deserve all they get. If you can’t stand the heat…..
Further, if what goes around comes around then FHOTD has her place assured in Shangri-La whilst the BYBs will be getting roasted alive somewhere a lot less pleasant.
Friesianluv:
Well said!
hooray! I’m worse than the person selling skinny wormy horses with a bigass BOAT in the background!
Stupidity abounds!
The Greatest Crime ever comitted was by the one who did NOTHING…
yk001 said…
This post has been removed by the author.
December 24, 2007 12:31 AM
yk001 said…
My friend showed me this site and it didn’t take me long to decide that….You’re all a bunch of fucking losers who need to get lives! Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than pick other people/other people’s horses apart, honestly.. come on.. grow up *shakes head*
December 24, 2007 12:35 AM
ahhhh shit! i missed it! when the BYBing scumbags show up, someone please, Please, PLEASE copy and paste what they say so i can read it too… i was at the barn and missed it!
now all we need is for Niki to show up… come out, come out wherever you are, Niki! i know you’re lurking!
Ahhh….other howrse addicts
I am so much better at making $$ there then in reality….of course I breed much more there too! I am lifeisamystery and breed green star Hanoverians 
As a military wife I’m asked why I think it’s ok for us to be the world police or that we get into things that aren’t “our business”. My answer to that is the same as my answer to why this blog is a good thing. If we see a crime happening to someone on the street, we have a moral responsibility to do something to stop the suffering and abuse of the helpless. Collectively and individually.
This is fugly’s way of dotting people’s eyes and bringing awareness to their contribution to to the suffering of the horse industry. Is she a self-appointed cop? Yes but someone has to do it.
Somehow there are people out there that want us to say we “didn’t see nothin’” when a crime happens. If everyone minds their own business and lets the asshats run amok, the entire world will go to hell in a handbasket before we know it”
Accountability is a powerful social tool.
Forget Sea Monkeys!!
I have found the answer!
http://www.amazon.com/HORSE-Horses-GROW-Novelty-water/dp/B000BN8Y2C
You can have your very own horse and watch it grow – just like a real one!
And you don’t even have to feed it! (like you would have anyway).
All it needs is water… oh wait scratch that, something tells me these people couldn’t be trusted to give this thing water either.
Hey Fugly,
Are you being unsportslymanlikely again?
No, you’ve simply ripped off the veneer of mock civility and let these dipshit BYBs have it.
For that, I say Thank You. I just wish these BYBs could read.
OT…but kinda on…
While this blog goes after BYB, which I think is GREAT…I have a serious question…What is to be done with those that breed for market ($2000+ stud fees), advertize in all the ‘right’ publications and have the money to support/buy their championships. I realize many here appear anti the foundation registries (saying they can’t hold up to a ‘real’ registry (aka AQHA)), what about something like this
http://tinyurl.com/yt2vty
If you go to their stallion page, you’ll see what I mean, Both stallions are H/N. Could someone please tell me how either of those two horses can stand up, much less move. I realize they are halter horses (BLECH) but this borders on ridiculous. These guys make any foundation bred look good as they have hind legs that bend.
And I wonder why none of my mares have been bred recently.
Hoping everyone on this blog the very best this holiday season…
FHOTD keep up the good work
I’m voting for Chia Pets as well – maybe cleaner oxygen will help sharpen their brain cells enough for them to find a new hobby, and leave horses, dogs, cats and other assorted farm animals alone!
maybe something involving super-glue, so they can spend their free hours trying to unstick various body parts?
on another note, my mind is boggled by the fact that the stupids featured on this blog everyday are all available online – i can’t even begin to imagine the BYBs that are out there, that don’t have access online.
whisper the wind said, “These guys make any foundation bred look good as they have hind legs that bend.
And I wonder why none of my mares have been bred recently.”
Merry Christmas!
I think you have to really look around and find a stallion that is correct to breed your mares to. Choosing an extreme of any type isn’t benefiting the breed at all. On one end of the spectrum you have these awful halter horses, and on the other end, you have these awful common foundation types. I think there is a middle there somewhere – a horse that is correct; one that can move properly, is athletic, and still have enough eye appeal to be attractive to the buying public (and satisfy your taste as well). It just takes a bit of homework.
whisper_the_wind said… Could someone please tell me how either of those two horses can stand up, much less move.
Fearles is indeed waaay too posty in the hocks, but there’s nothing wrong with Top Secret (other than N/H), he shows good angulation of the hock. Pleasure/Reineing/Cutting breeders should take notice that that is the way a hock should look. There should NOT be extreme set – that is just as bad for the horse as are posty ones.
I know its always fun to beat up on the halter horses, but they are not all pure-evil.
I cote for the super glue. No Sea Monkey fatalities, no Chia pets dying from thirst….
Blogger spotsforme said…
I cote for the super glue. No Sea Monkey fatalities, no Chia pets dying from thirst….
December 24, 2007 10:06 AM
scrapbooking… why don’t they take up scrapbooking?
FTFOTB
Agreed…I have a friend trying to convince me to breed my (god forbid…dun) to her ‘foundation bred’ stallion (god forbid…dunskin), she’ll even let me breed for free…Sorry…he hasn’t done anything but stand around in a stall. Plus he has crooked legs that he passed on to his 2007 foals. Give me a horse that looks good and can perform. I actually found a good possibility for spring. He’s an old man (over 20) and produces halter and performance babies (Aledo Joe Five)
Snaffles… I disagree about Top Secret. If you drop a line from the point of the butt to the ground it should intersect the hock. His buttocks are so baggy that a vertical line runs well behind the hock. I realize that because of the abundance of muscle the pictures may be misleading, but I have a long yearling that sits under herself like that, with that straight of a hindleg and I consider her unacceptable. She’s perfectly sound, but in my book… a fugly yak.
scrapbooking is a good idea, except they would more than likely put an eye out with the scissors or lop off an appendage or two(probably the wrong ones at that), and then the nations’s medical insurance rates would soar and Homeland Security would ban scissors.
http://www.elcascabel.com/brindlepictures.html
not sure how you email but wow, that second stallion is so long!
Blogger spotsforme said…
scrapbooking is a good idea, except they would more than likely put an eye out with the scissors or lop off an appendage or two(probably the wrong ones at that), and then the nations’s medical insurance rates would soar and Homeland Security would ban scissors.
December 24, 2007 10:31 AM
*slaps forehead* damn it… i didn’t think of the many dangers of scissors!
Blogger Mo said…
http://www.elcascabel.com/brindlepictures.html
not sure how you email but wow, that second stallion is so long!
December 24, 2007 10:41 AM
omg i found a video of that long brindle stud… turns out, he is a RACEHORSE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
eqettwJC4ME&feature=related
Perhaps just mailing these guys an inanimate carbon rod to care for would be best.
Although…we’ve joined the ranks of fugly dog breeders unwittingly. We were given a fox terrier last year, and the owners didn’t even know she was a fox terrier, they thought she was a Jack Russel. Figures that not only would they not know the breed, they wouldn’t bother to get her spayed. We took her to the vet, and she palpated her, but didn’t feel anything.
We watched for signs of heat, but didn’t really see anything, although there was one point where her vulva got a bit swollen, but it didn’t last long and she didn’t bleed at all like dogs normally do, so we didn’t think much of it.
Well….the neighbor’s dog must have gotten to her early and settled her, because now she’s due to whelp in about 2 weeks. We didn’t catch it in time to do a puppy abortion.
Gah, so white trash. We’ve NEVER had a litter of puppies, ever, so this will be an experience. I think I may have one spoken for, although we warned her that we’re not even really sure what the puppies are even going to be.
whisper_the_wind said…
FTFOTB
Agreed…I have a friend trying to convince me to breed my (god forbid…dun) to her ‘foundation bred’ stallion (god forbid…dunskin), she’ll even let me breed for free…Sorry…he hasn’t done anything but stand around in a stall. Plus he has crooked legs that he passed on to his 2007 foals. Give me a horse that looks good and can perform. I actually found a good possibility for spring. He’s an old man (over 20) and produces halter and performance babies (Aledo Joe Five)
Well, there’s nothing wrong with the dilutes at all as long as the color is on a good horse.
Aledo Joe Five. Not familiar with the horse, but if he’s named after his bloodlines, and they are Aledo Bar, Silver Wimpy and the Scharbauer horses, they were decent ones.
So many people breed their mares to a stallion because it’s “free”. I never understood that. A stud fee is usually the cheapest part of the whole deal of breeding horses. It wouldn’t be the place I’d skimp on, that’s for sure. Just doubling what you were willing to pay for a stud fee would really increase the odds of getting a very marketable foal (if you decided to sell it).
I look at breeding horses this way – It doesn’t matter how much they cost to buy or how much they are to breed to, it’s all about what you want. If what you want is scarce, then cost is really no object. I mean, aside from the very top stallions of the horse world, which ones can’t we afford? If we own horses in the first place, we’re already spending a small fortune. It’s all a matter of what your priorities are, and how much you’re willing (or not) to sacrifice to save a few bucks.
Forthefutre;
You are so right. It does take a lot of homework. Finding the right stallion to compliment and correct an honest appraisal of a mare’s strengths and weaknesses, and ideally improve on both himself and the mare is a tough job. I looked for 6 years and finally found “Mr. Right” last week.
Spotsforme said…
Forthefutre;
You are so right. It does take a lot of homework. Finding the right stallion to compliment and correct an honest appraisal of a mare’s strengths and weaknesses, and ideally improve on both himself and the mare is a tough job. I looked for 6 years and finally found “Mr. Right” last week.
Oh, fantastic! That’s how it is supposed to be if you’re breeding responsibly.
Good for you!
Merry Christmas!
snert2uspotsforme said…
Forthefutre;
You are so right. It does take a lot of homework. Finding the right stallion to compliment and correct an honest appraisal of a mare’s strengths and weaknesses, and ideally improve on both himself and the mare is a tough job. I looked for 6 years and finally found “Mr. Right” last week.
December 24, 2007 11:01 AM
It’s a Christmas Miracle!
Glad to hear you did it the RIGHT way. Most folks just breed to whatever is down the road.
A toast to doing it right… because if the folks that DO do it right quit… we’re up shit creek without a paddle.
funny how we are all nasty people with nothing better to do, yet those who slam us had to take the time to register and post… also, I am sure that this isn’t the ONLY post made by our Grinches…..hummm…
You know you love it…
And if you don’t, don’t friggin read it! Sheesh!
nyxin said…
funny how we are all nasty people with nothing better to do, yet those who slam us had to take the time to register and post… also, I am sure that this isn’t the ONLY post made by our Grinches…..hummm…
You know you love it…
And if you don’t, don’t friggin read it! Sheesh!
LOL! You are so right about this. I get quite a few emails from people who know me and know that I post here, and they just hate this blog. Funny how they read it on a regular basis, though.
FTFOTB: Some people just need a reason to be pissed off or they don’t know what to do with themselves.
starrynightxxi said…
FTFOTB: Some people just need a reason to be pissed off or they don’t know what to do with themselves.
I’m sure. Sometimes I think they are just frustrated and have a poor attitude because of their own inadequacies – more so when it’s pointed out to them in public.
Snaffles said: “but there’s nothing wrong with Top Secret. Pleasure/Reineing/Cutting breeders should take notice that that is the way a hock should look. There should NOT be extreme set – that is just as bad for the horse as are posty ones.”
Sorry Snaffles, I agree that you can go too far out behind with hock set (camped out behind) but there is NO WAY that that stallion’s hind legs are correct (Top Secret). There should be a line that runs down the back of the cannon that, if you extend it upwards should just touch the end of the pin bone. (On most breeds that will be the rear edge of the curve of the hindquarters. In the QHs case, with the extreme muscling you have to look a little further up the butt.)
If this line doesn’t touch the pin bone but is out in mid air behind the horse the hind legs are camped out behind.
If this line doesn’t touch the pin bone but is running through the quarters the horse has posty hind legs and is too upright.
Therefore Top Secret is posty IMO.
FTFOTB: What’s really sad about that is that a lot of people won’t change, so those shortcomings that frustrate them so much never get better, though they often get worse.
I don’t know, I feel sorry for a lot of the people featured here because very often they DO love their horses, and even if they do their research it’s SO easy to end up with all the WRONG information. It’s no wonder they’re so defensive, but I do wish they would stop and think before they replied because I believe that there are some fugly breeders out there who love their breed/type enough that if given the proper education COULD be very valuable.
That would never be as much fun as a low down, mud-wrestlin’-style, snarkfest, though ;0)
forthefutureofthebreed said…
“they just hate this blog. Funny how they read it on a regular basis, though.”
Sure; they’re afraid they’ll finally get found out publicly. People who do their homework and proper planning and care of the horses would welcome the publicity and not fear the (dare I say it?)… naysayers.
Its not that hard to get quality information. Hell even the breed associations have information about proper care an selection…
Its laziness an this my family has done it this way for???
Bullshit , just because its been done a certain way for so long doesnt mean anything. Thats where folks get hung up..
Like the dipshits that feel feeding tabacco or cigarettes to a horse constitutes a good worming..
Well, I still disagree with you on Top Secret. The picture to me is more of an optical illusion. The amount of muscling does not show the true picture.
Is he 100% conformationally ideal? No they haven’t invented that one yet. But considering 99% of the stallions being offered out there, he’s closer than most.
Now Fearles, that is a problem that should definitely NOT be rewarded in te ring.
starrynightxxi said…
FTFOTB: What’s really sad about that is that a lot of people won’t change, so those shortcomings that frustrate them so much never get better, though they often get worse.
I don’t know, I feel sorry for a lot of the people featured here because very often they DO love their horses, and even if they do their research it’s SO easy to end up with all the WRONG information. It’s no wonder they’re so defensive, but I do wish they would stop and think before they replied because I believe that there are some fugly breeders out there who love their breed/type enough that if given the proper education COULD be very valuable.
That would never be as much fun as a low down, mud-wrestlin’-style, snarkfest, though ;0)
I can agree with you on this, for sure. I feel sorry for many of them, too, although we all have the same opportunities to study and learn, just like in school. It all depends on what you do with what you’ve learned. Just like we all have 24 hrs in a day. No more, no less. Rich or poor. It’s what you do with the time that matters.
Farmgirl said…
forthefutureofthebreed said…
“they just hate this blog. Funny how they read it on a regular basis, though.”
Sure; they’re afraid they’ll finally get found out publicly. People who do their homework and proper planning and care of the horses would welcome the publicity and not fear the (dare I say it?)… naysayers.
I agree. And some have mentioned that very thing. So, I believe you’re right.
trickroper: no, it’s not hard to get good information, but it’s easier to get the wrong information. Just go to one of the horse forums that gets brought up here. Or heck, talk to half these big time QH halter breeders who stand stallions that are N/H or H/H, and are so OBVIOUSLY conformationally deficient (post legs, etc.). Surely that’s the wrong way, but considering what’s apparently winning in the arena, you’d be hard pressed to prove it.
My guess that many breed standards in registries that don’t require inspections are fairly vague so as to allow as many animals as possible, even to the extent of not banning the breeding of animals with known genetic disorders.
Of course, like FTFOTB said, we all have opportunities to learn, especially now in the age of the internet. And I’m not trying to make excuses for these bad practices, or for those stubborn individuals who refuse to listen to those around them, just pointing out that ignorance is not always stupidity.
I think the Christmas Spirit is soaking in and making me sappy, so I’m going to shut up now -lol-
Snaffles, Top Secret does not have “good” hind leg conformation for a reiner, pleasure horse, cutter, trail horse, or anything other than halter (remembering that a “good” halter horse is the lame tank on teacups that wins at the AQHA World.
The Top Secret- edit
Here is his picture, edited only by adding guidelines to show where I interpret the point of hip to be (structurally, not the point where the fat and muscle reach), the point of hock, and the back of the fetlock. Ideally, these are all in line. The guidelines are perfectly straight, and you can see that each of these 3 points fall on a different line (2 of the lines are drawn, but the green points are what I am talking about).
Also, I added a line to show that the highest point of his withers and the highest point of his croup are not level. Not a huge deal, but another structural imperfection.
Granted a picture only tells part of the story, but in the hind end conformation, this horse is way off no matter how you look at it.
starrynightxxi said…
“FTFOTB: What’s really sad about that is that a lot of people won’t change, so those shortcomings that frustrate them so much never get better, though they often get worse.
I don’t know, I feel sorry for a lot of the people featured here because very often they DO love their horses, and even if they do their research it’s SO easy to end up with all the WRONG information. It’s no wonder they’re so defensive, but I do wish they would stop and think before they replied because I believe that there are some fugly breeders out there who love their breed/type enough that if given the proper education COULD be very valuable.
That would never be as much fun as a low down, mud-wrestlin’-style, snarkfest, though ;0)”
I agree with starrynightxxi – I feel sorry for a lot of these people.
If we put ourselves in their shoes: they often genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. Then they are flamed here to such an extent that they may begin to question themselves a little and are made to feel embarrassed. They feel they must defend their vulnerable position, even if they are now questioning it in the backs of their minds – or they will look stupid. They are now scared: “Shit maybe I AM wrong about worming with tabacco, maybe my horses ARE fugly, maybe they ARE too thin (etc)?? All these people are saying so??? I’ll look like SUCH an idiot!! I’ll just have to bluff my way out.” Nothing bites more ferociously than a fear-biter.
Now I know we already think they ARE stupid and them defending their stupid ways just confirms that, but you can’t educate people by saying “You are stupid and know nothing – here do it my way.”.
We need to make it a win/win for everyone and then these people will feel able to admit that they now see the error of their ways. When they know better they may do better – IF we give them a chance to save face with a little empathy: “Yes we now how you feel – we’ve all done stupid things too.”
You need to start gentle (just like breaking-in). If that doesn’t work for the lying, cheating, closeminded, stupid assholes then flame on and snark away I say. We gave them a chance and they didn’t take it. They deserve all they get.
I have empathy for those that are trying to do better.
I’ve yet to see anyone thats been put on here bu Ms. Fugly thats trying to do better…
Im a pretty nice fella , but when stupid people get in my face an tell me they are right an its ok that ole paint is thin or ole paint rears, i’ll be dammed if im gonna be polite…
You can argue about Top Secret’s back legs and picture, but take one look at his foals and you can see that he sires about 100% posty – at least of the ones that have a side view.
I think it’s a deformity – why in the world would someone breed for this??
Heatheraqha, I’ll be glad to post a hindquarter photo of my stallion to show correct conformation. Feel free to draw any lines you want on him. Unlike the BYBs, I’m more than happy to show what I have.
Hindquarters
Morgan_Horse_Queen said…
…”I think it’s a deformity – why in the world would someone breed for this??”
I agree!!! Until reading this Blog I never even knew that over there in America (as opposed to over here in Australia) you guys have a whole ‘show scene’ that is JUST halter and the horses don’t DO anything and that it was so BIG. Thank god we don’t (hope we don’t follow right along as we often seem to in other things). It seems very bizarre to me that people would breed for hind limb conformation like this. I spose if they were breeding for a trait that was not very functional but was attractive I would think they were stupid but I could see that it looked good. But those legs (and feet and muscling) are ugly ugly ugly. Sorry – don’t get it.
Did any one else notice that on the High Hopes Farm first page (http://tinyurl.com/2cs757), the last pic was photoshoped? Just look at the grass between the hind legs. Just a note.
FTFOTB…Funny – I clicked on the link and was waiting for the rest of your boy to appear! You should show what a lovely boy he is and show all of him – the BYBs lurking may learn something!
“It looks to me like he, Truckles, has something wrong with his left knee. Am I wrong or is it just bad photos?”
His left knee appears to be offset — i.e., isn’t alined with his forewrm and cannon. Could be the photo, but it does look the same in mulitple photos.
FTFOTB-
APHA Stallion hind leg
Here’s my edit of your stallion. Obviously, his hind end is ideal; I honestly think any deviations from a straight line is a combo of his foot placement and my interpretation of where the point of buttock lies.
I’m sure the rest of him is just as correct too!
OT-Here is a local ranch that has a QH stallion, Truckles Beau. What gets me is that they have a ton of horses that they can’t sell but they are advertising this stallion for stud on Dream Horse.
http://tinyurl.com/2cs757
http://tinyurl.com/2aouah
It looks to me like he, Truckles, has something wrong with his left knee. Am I wrong or is it just bad photos?
Sorry, that still isn’t going to fly with me, you’re interpretation doesn’t take into account the angle to which the photo was taken, that skews the angles of your points.
Again no horse is ideal, but his hind leg conformation is less likely to produce hocks that need to be injected than the Paint stallion that one of the bloggers owns. I commend her for putting that picture of him on, most wouldn’t open their own horses up to criticism, but that hock has too much set.
Reiners, cutter and pleasure people have incorrectly been breeding for that ‘set’ as it gives the appearance of driving deeper, or allowing the horse to get under themselves better – which is false.
That angle causes uneven wear on the joints, which is why there is so much hock damage being done in these three events. Those angles need to be brought back in line. Again, I never said Top Secret was perfect, but he’s got more going for him than alot of performance or other halter stallions.
Oh BTW, I’m off now for Christmas -
Everyone have a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays – or Festivus!
See you on the Flip side – Dec 27!
At the risk of being shot down AND making FTFOTB mad at me (I will have to be brave – I’m prepared to be corrected and chastised)…from that photo I can’t see that he is 100% correct?? Is it just me? He looks a little little sickle hocked??? Shoot me if I’m wrong (and I admit I could be) but a line from his pin bone (tuber ischii) to the point of the hock doesn’t then run parallel to the metatarsal??
Having said that: Snaffles I think you need to research ‘correct’ hock anglulation a little more. Has nothing to do with the angle of the photos on Top Secret…it’s the lack of angle in his hocks that’s the problem. FTFOTBs stallion is WAY more correct than him.
starrynightxxi said…
“Just go to one of the horse forums that gets brought up here. Or heck, talk to half these big time QH halter breeders who stand stallions that are N/H or H/H, and are so OBVIOUSLY conformationally deficient (post legs, etc.). Surely that’s the wrong way, but considering what’s apparently winning in the arena, you’d be hard pressed to prove it.”
We should be grateful then that none of the breed officials have decided that roached backs are now the winningest trait or we’d see a flood of people defending their deformed horses. Oh, wait… *smacks head*
Merry Christmas, everyone!
An example of how photography can change things to an extent-
These two pics are of the same horse, same day, and pretty much at the same angle, but with the horse set up slightly differently.
She’s a little more thin/sleek than the two examples so far, so you can clearly see the point of buttock as well as the hock and cannon.
Standing too far under herself, looks sickle hocked. Note how the hock is not directly beneath the point of buttock.
Standing slightly too far out behind, but very close to where the leg should be set. Compare the angles of the cannon between these two pictures.
Taldara said…
FTFOTB…Funny – I clicked on the link and was waiting for the rest of your boy to appear! You should show what a lovely boy he is and show all of him – the BYBs lurking may learn something!
LOL! Thanks. Here’s a full side photo. Very hard for us to get good ones as amateurs. Time for a professional photographer!
Side Photo
FTFOTB-
What would you change about your stallion if you could?
Heatheraqha said, “Here’s my edit of your stallion. Obviously, his hind end is ideal; I honestly think any deviations from a straight line is a combo of his foot placement and my interpretation of where the point of buttock lies.
I’m sure the rest of him is just as correct too!”
Thank you, Heather! It’s hard to stand them up in soft footing, that’s for sure. Especially when you back them up into position, they tend to stand underneath themselves. I should find a spot of nice, hard, level ground for future photos.
Taldara said…
At the risk of being shot down AND making FTFOTB mad at me (I will have to be brave – I’m prepared to be corrected and chastised)…from that photo I can’t see that he is 100% correct?? Is it just me? He looks a little little sickle hocked??? Shoot me if I’m wrong (and I admit I could be) but a line from his pin bone (tuber ischii) to the point of the hock doesn’t then run parallel to the metatarsal??
Having said that: Snaffles I think you need to research ‘correct’ hock anglulation a little more. Has nothing to do with the angle of the photos on Top Secret…it’s the lack of angle in his hocks that’s the problem. FTFOTBs stallion is WAY more correct than him.
Taldara, no problem. I’m always willing to discuss anything like that, even if it’s my own horse! I’m their worst critic. I will look at him again with your assessment in mind.
He actually is extremely correct in the flesh, although I can’t capture him properly with a camera. I’ve tried to pick this horse apart, for 3 years before we decided to use him for a sire.
Heather asked, “What would you change about your stallion if you could?”
I would change his neck some…he’s thick, although he’s never been fitted up, sweated, or accupunctured for halter, and I won’t do that to him. I’d also make him a bit shorter (he’s 16.1h), 15.2 would be perfect for me.
I’ve had quite a few knowledgeable horsemen look this horse over pretty good. There are things that could be “enhanced” for halter, but that’s not my preference for a horse. He is a unique individual, and one that I’m extremely proud to own. Pictures do not do this horse justice (doesn’t everyone say that? LOL). Pictures tend to make his legs look short, and they’re far from it. He’s very tall, leggy and elegant, yet we haven’t been able to capture that with a camera. Someday…:) And thanks for asking.
Thanks for that example HeatherAQHA. That’s why rather than dropping a plumb-bob from the point of the buttock to the ground I prefer to join the mid-point (the point of the hock) to one of the other two points (back of fetlock joint or the point of the buttock (actually the bone – not the muscle covering it)and then see if the third point is in line. This way it doesn’t matter how the horse is standing (or even if it’s moving) you can still judge the hind limb confo.
I think both aforementioned stallions (not FTFOTB’s Paint Stallion – the QHs) are posty, though Top Secret is not *as* posty. I’ve taken both photos and added some lines of my own – they correspond to the underlying bones in the hind limb and are, top-to-bottom: femur (thigh), tibia (gaskin), and cannon…
I disagree about the angle of the photo for The Top Secret – he’s standing square – not obviously camped out or under. I wish I was at my work computer – I’ve got a great photo of a horse, standing square, that is sickle-hocked. I’d put it up just for comparison’s sake. Oh well…another day.
The Top Secret
Fearles
Seamonkeys, chia pets, pet rocks – won’t work. People move out from the city on their 2-20 acre ranch, get some horses and expect to make MONEY. Can’t be done with things mentioned.
I, on the otherhand, can help. The price of Naugahide has been increasing. I have a herd of Naugas and I’m willing to part with a few. I take paypal and will set up the shipper. I take no responsibility after leaving my farm, though.
This is a chance to get in on the ground floor. I’ll sell breeding pairs.
Anyone want some Naugas?
FTFOTB said..”Taldara, no problem. I’m always willing to discuss anything like that, even if it’s my own horse! I’m their worst critic.”
Yep that’s why you ARE responsible!! Just didn’t want to sound pompous and like I think I have all the answers. I always THINK I know what I’m talking about but it always seems that just when I think that someone shows me I’m wrong. I expect it now. LOL
As you know I feel the same – you have to step back and analyse your own critically. I know you don’t particualarly like the stallion I chose to use this year and I took your comments on board and treated them very seriously (decided that for what *I* want he was right)(doesn’t really matter at this stage anyway as mare didn’t ‘catch’ (bugger bugger again – sorry OT).
petersdr said…
I think both aforementioned stallions (not FTFOTB’s Paint Stallion – the QHs) are posty, though Top Secret is not *as* posty.
I agree completely. Both of those QHs are posty hocked; one worse than the other. That is what they want in the halter classes, and I think it is incorrect conformation.
Oh and wanted to say that even if (as you ackowledge) your bot isn’t perfect I think his imperfections are minor. He is a lovely horse.
AAAHhhh typo – have no idea whether your bum is perfect or otherwise!!! (Obviously meant your ‘boy’)
(Praps you could post a photo so we can judge it LOL!!)
Taldara, of course it didn’t catch, you were going for quality, not a piece of back yard crap. Only the fuglies, animal and human seem to catch everytime a male and female get within 20 yards of each other.
You’re free to repost emails you get but I don’t think it’s fair to include their email address… this was sent to you in confidence, not posted as a comment on yoru blog…
Just my two cents.
tal,
Stupid question:
If you Aussies breed in the spring, are the horses still a year old Jan 1?
Taladara-
I think the idea about seeing if the three points make a straight line, regardless of their position to the horizontal ground, would give you a good idea but wouldn’t be totally accurate. The further the leg is from standing square, the more off the prediction would be, since the bend of the stifle will change the angles.
The femur and the tibia aren’t the same length, so as the “hinge” between those two bones bends, the hock and fetlock will swing out of line from the point of buttock.
Taldara said…
AAAHhhh typo – have no idea whether your bum is perfect or otherwise!!! (Obviously meant your ‘boy’)
(Praps you could post a photo so we can judge it LOL!!)
LOL. No problem. Thanks! I posted a side conformation photo, above. Not the best, and not as representative as I’d like, but it’s one of only a few I have for now.
I’m sorry your mare didn’t catch.
Hopefully next time she will. 
And, yes, you have to breed for what YOU want. I trust you chose the right stallion.
Kay said…
“Taldara, of course it didn’t catch, you were going for quality, not a piece of back yard crap. Only the fuglies, animal and human seem to catch everytime a male and female get within 20 yards of each other.”
Aint that the truth!! LOL
They spend a few hundred and get a foal every time. Those spending thousands on vet fees to use really good stallions lose those thousands more often than is fair.
shovels said…
“tal,
Stupid question:
If you Aussies breed in the spring, are the horses still a year old Jan 1?”
No Aug 1st is all horse’s BDay here. People start covering mares Sept onwards and stop (usually) about Jan/Feb.
FTFOTB,
I can sympathize with you about getting a ‘good’ pic, my boy is black, it took me 12 years to get a decent pic that didn’t look like a silhouette, then along came digital cameras, no more rolls and rolls of film to find ‘maybe’ one good one, now I just click away delete the rubbish and keep the best.
You still need the light to get definition but it’s so much easier
Either way those to halter studs should be geldings. Neither is a good representation of the breed.
snaffles said, “Again no horse is ideal, but his hind leg conformation is less likely to produce hocks that need to be injected than the Paint stallion that one of the bloggers owns. I commend her for putting that picture of him on, most wouldn’t open their own horses up to criticism, but that hock has too much set.
Reiners, cutter and pleasure people have incorrectly been breeding for that ‘set’ as it gives the appearance of driving deeper, or allowing the horse to get under themselves better – which is false.”
I seriously hope you weren’t referring to my Paint stallion. He’s neither a cutter, a reiner, nor a pleasure horse, and wasn’t bred for specifically for any of those disciplines. He’s as sound as it gets, with excellent bone, all bone columns are lined up, and there is no undue stress anywhere. He is nearly 1500 lbs and 16.1h, so if there was going to be some stress placed somewhere due to incorrect structure, he would not be sound.
You are correct in that some photo angles can skew things a bit. A person with a good eye for correct horse conformation can see through most of that by visualizing where the leg would be if moved forward or back.
Speaking of angles, one of my former professors (DVM/PhD, Equine vet, specialty in biomechanics) said that the ideal pastern angles are not the textbook straight line from tip of the toe to the base of the cannon bone; the angle of the pastern should be slightly (maybe 5-10 degrees?) more upright than the angle of the front of the hoof wall. Something about wild horse foot conformation, the way the foot bears weight and stress, blah blah blah.
I kind of wonder how many of the “perfect” straight lines are determined by making the horse look pleasing to the eye, and how many are functionally ideal. Like, do the shoulder and hips angles *have* to match? Should the topline to underline ratio really be 1:2, as opposed to maybe 1:1.75 or 1:2.25?
Are we choosing these standards based on structual reasons, or what makes nice even numbers and straight lines…?
I don’t know! But an interesting question, I think.
As an example- here is “ideal” AKA textbook lower limb conformation.
Here is what is being called broken back angles, but is more towards what the professor said (according to some kind of research) is more sound/correct/beneficial.
Merry Christmas Eve, everybody!!!!
HeatherAQHA, I don’t know if it’s conditioning, but the “broken back” toe looks too long to me!
The “Top Secret” stallion looks like he’s got a full droopy diaper on.
Nightmare said…
FTFOTB,
I can sympathize with you about getting a ‘good’ pic, my boy is black, it took me 12 years to get a decent pic that didn’t look like a silhouette, then along came digital cameras, no more rolls and rolls of film to find ‘maybe’ one good one, now I just click away delete the rubbish and keep the best.
You still need the light to get definition but it’s so much easier
Oh, black is the most difficult. White can be tough, too, sometimes. It’s hard to get definition on a white horse to show up in a picture. It’s time I get a professional out to take pics next summer. They say it’s the worst thing a person can do is toss out all these amateur photos of a stallion, but hell, I’m up front and honest, have nothing to hide, always willing to discuss conformation and such, and WYSIWYG. I hate computer enhanced photos. Too many times, you go look at one of those stallions and he’s a big disappointment. Mine is the opposite. People come see my horse in person and are more than happy with what they see. That’s how I want it.
HA that droopy diaper thing is exactly what those horses look like! Is that what they are talking about when they refer to “carry down?”
The toe on that broken-back angled foot looks a little long to me too, but not terrible. Anyways, I just found it as a good example to illustrate what I was talking about re hoof angle vs pastern angle, especially since the lines are drawn in to make it easier to visualize.
Droopy Diaper , haha Nice!
Im gonna have to remember that one…
IMO, the brke back angle looks like it might put undo stress on the upper joints, but then that might be because of the toe length. I’m really interested in this theory on angles. But I’ll have to check back on it later. Need to get horses in(they escaped into the hay field), feed the barn cats, eat far to many rum bars and wait for Santa to bring me a winning lottery ticket. Yeah, yeah, I know. I believe in Santa more than I do winning lottery tickets.
Merry Christmas to all.
Heatheraqha, I have found that there are many theories on where certain angles should be on a horse. Many of those theories and opinions are based on what is pleasing to the eye. Others are based on what allows for a particular way of going in order to win.
Snaffles was right about some of the hind leg conformation being conducive toward certain disciplines (sickle hocks). The posty hocks in halter horses give the appearance of more carry down in the hindquarter. Upright pasterns supposedly “look” pretty, but they are not correct for a performance horse. A thin throatlatch is also desirable in a halter horse, yet it doesn’t allow for much of an airway in a racehorse or performance horse.
I think that a horse should be basically correct AND pleasing to the eye, which sometimes leaves a horse like that out of the competition with the current specialized trends in many disciplines.
Personally, I am breeding for a horse that is correct and pleasing to the eye, with sound bloodlines. Nothing extreme and no fad breeding.