Discussion: Racehorse breeding and the future of racing
Dec 03 2007
Just a brief note after attending the Washington Thoroughbred Breeders’ Sale yesterday…
There is a good and a bad way to sell horses at auction. The variation in prices was absolutely stunning – all the way from “couldn’t get a $100 bid” to $24,000 – but it wasn’t random. The horses who brought good prices looked like they should. They were excellent weight – fat, shiny, blanketed or body clipped. A real effort had been made to make them look appealing. Whereas a lot of the horses who couldn’t get a bid or sold for under $300 looked like crap – furry, poor weight, no muscle tone. In some cases, I don’t think anyone had even given them a bath.
I walked through the barns and I saw the owners who were hustling to make sure their horses brought good prices and went to good barns. It was like a horse show – show sheen and baby oil everywhere, clippers running, tails being meticulously picked out. But there were some horses no one had even made the slightest effort with. It was sad. I am not opposed to good quality registered horse sales like these – but get off your dead ass and put some effort into making sure your horse sells well!
(At left, a very nice Tribunal colt who was presented beautifully and, unsurprisingly, brought $14,000. OK, you’re allowed to breed. You are putting effort AND thought into it. Thank you!)
One of the most stunning things to me was that it wasn’t just open mares that sold badly. Some of the mares in foal sold poorly as well! People, when you’re getting $200 for a bred, stakes-winner-producing mare, isn’t it time to re-evaluate? Or when you can’t get a $100 bid on your weanling? Hey, if you’re one of the people who sold multiple horses for $5000+ yesterday, by all means keep breeding. If you couldn’t get bids, HELLO! Stop it! Sometimes you have to accept that you’re not very good at doing something and maybe in your case it is breeding! Or maybe what you’ve bred isn’t so bad but your management, nutrition, and preparation suck. Either way, you need a new hobby.
You know what else made me sad? All of the crabby, anti-social broodmares. Is it gonna kill you people to buy a 25 pound bag of carrots here and there? Why do all of these mares HATE people? None of my friends have any broodmares that hate people (other horses, yes!). What have you DONE to them? I can see one or two crabby old bats but, man, I only found 2 really sweet ones in the bunch yesterday. (On the plus side, it’s easier to say no to the 22 year old when she snaps at your face…though I have to say, she sold OK, I’m not worried about her fate).
(I did want to take home Coffee Nudge. She was very sweet. They have my phone number if the new buyer doesn’t want her after they get the baby…)
Now, looking at the bigger picture…let’s talk a little about the future of horse racing in general. I’ve heard (feel free to elaborate if you know more) that the corporation that owns the tracks is in financial trouble. Horse racing, for whatever reason, is not doing too well. Tracks have closed and other tracks are running fewer races, getting fewer entries. (Still, it sure didn’t look like production had slowed down. 124 yearlings yesterday!) While I am not anti-racing myself, I do think there have been problems with footing that have resulted in avoidable deaths, and I am 100% flat out opposed to riding yearlings of any breed for any reason, standard practice in racing.
I do think the whole Barbaro thing has created some backlash for the racing industry and perhaps resulted in declining attendance and betting. Public breakdowns are always bad news in any horse discipline, and they do happen more often in the high-performance ones. A couple years ago in L.A., I watched a horse start to have a heart attack on the polo field. I knew he was done and it was actually a pretty fast death. There was no limping to a halt with a shattered, bloody appendage…he just crumpled and was gone. I happened to be up near the audience watching and got to hear the comments. It freaks people out no end. I’m sure they know horses die, on some level, but they don’t expect it to happen while they’re watching, and their first instinct is to believe some kind of abuse is to blame. There wasn’t – in this case it was a fit, sound teenaged gelding who toppled over just like a fit, marathon runner can with no forewarning that anything may be wrong. But people were freaked. I can only imagine how much more freaked they are witnessing a breakdown on the track. I’d hazard a guess it would scare many, many people away from attending a future race. I’m pretty realistic about the fact that horses break down in all disciplines, but I admit I watched those 124 yearlings sell and wondered which of them would be dead in a year.
Racetrack folks, did we always have as many breakdowns as we do now, or is it just that with TV and the Internet, we know about all the breakdowns now? What do you think is the main cause of breakdowns? Is it riding them too early? Poor conditioning? Not giving time off for soreness? Bad conformation to begin with? Are the new polytrack surfaces a real solution or just an attempt to look like we’re trying to fix the problem? I’m particularly interested to hear from those of you who have racehorses or work on the tracks…how do we discourage the overbreeding of low quality Thoroughbreds at the source? Is there a way to increase interest in racing anymore? Is there any way to make racing safer for the horses and reduce the breakdowns?
What do you think?
192 comments to “Discussion: Racehorse breeding and the future of racing”
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I worked briefly at a racehorse breeding farm.. I say briefly because I can’t stand seeing horses live their lives in stalls with 8X20 turnouts and that absolutely DESPISE people. Most of the mares would have loved to take a piece of you if you turned your back. They were pumped full of so much food high sugar feed some were foundering, and all for what? A couple of bucks at the local sales and maybe the thought of breeding a winner one day? These were NICE well bred mares who deserved a chance to just be horses for once. I wasn’t against the fact that some of them were being bred, but just because the barn and feed and fancy bathroom and pavers around the barn cost multi millions.. doesn’t mean the horses are even remotely happy.. just the millionaire friends that come to visit are impressed. I couldn’t stand seeing so many pissed off horses in one place.
I work on a TB farm. I think its a combination of all factors that ultimately contribute to racing injuries. I know,… likely answer… but I don’t think any single factor can be blamed for solely contributing to the injuries in the industry. The poly track does help the horses out as far as joint concussion. Its much harder to push off that surface though, I’m pretty sure it makes times slower, so it can be said that the polytrack is there for the horses’ sake, not just for show. Its expensive stuff, why would they spend that much money just to look good for the industry? NO, I don’t like riding yearlings, but its keeping up with the Joneses and the rest of the industry and its just about neccessary to stay in there and make any money. Its definately not an industry for someone who is all bleeding heart, and in all I think a lot of the owners really do care about their horses, but a lot of people are there for the money only.
I DON’T ever ride any yearlings of my own, but right now its how I’m getting paid and the horses I’m riding aren’t mine so I do what I’m told while trying to pay very close attention to any vulnerabilities or early injury signs on these babies!!
You may recall that I admitted in the true horse confessions that I’ve always (since early childhood) had a deep desire to be a racehorse, well a WINNING racehorse, owner. I could not, in good conscience, actually own one. I think the breakdowns generally occur because of starting them too young. I don’t know if I am correct, but it has seemed to me that many more Steeplechase horses race into their later teens than flat racing horses. Is this because they start the ‘chasers when they are older? Honestly, they run MILES and jump these HUGE jumps. Yes, you get wrecks and broken bones, but I can’t think of many that didn’t occur in a pile up at a fence.
I think the biggest problem lies with starting them too young. Maybe some of it stems from the fact that they typically get little to no turnout, and don’t get the day-to-day moderate exercise generated from just even ambling around a pasture.
What is wrong with the business end of racing could fill a book! I’m not an expert on the economics of it except to say that Racing treats its fans like crap and fails to notice that a fan can become a handicapper and/or an owner/breeder someday. But not if you treat them like crap.
And there is TOO MUCH racing! The horses hardly get a break in many places (even in the frigid north in winter!) and some spend up to 10years AT THE TRACK. No wonder they have rotten attitudes.
Of course many have such chronic injuries and traumatic arthritis that I can understand them being grouchy or downright mean.
Artificial surfaces are good but horses with bad legs will break down on a pillow track.
Too many trainers are not true horesmen (or women), they are business men. They have ZERO idea how to condition a horse but a great pharmacy and lots of duct tape to keep horses running and running and running and then ditch them in a claimer hopefully before they break down fatally. “Racing Sound” is a huge joke, there are horses racing that should be pastured permanently.
Do away with the drugs and the steroids and injecting joints (in BABIES!!) and make trainers actually pass tests on conditioning and horse care. At some barns the horses get little care, they stand on dirt or in filthy bedding, they aren’t just racing lean, they are SKINNY. Tracks just look the other way because they need to fill races. That crap has to stop.
As does the routine dumping at killer auctions and the meat man’s regular visits with his truck to the backstretch (they even have special stalls at some tracks for pick ups!)
How are people who love horses supposed to support a sport who treats them like disposable diapers?
Not everyone in the racing world is like that of course but the sad fact is that too many of them are.
That doesn’t even touch how badly they treat the PEOPLE who work at the backstretch (the grooms, exercise riders, the not so famous jockeys)
1. race tracks themselves (too hard a surface, not enough give)
2. poor shoeing (the erroneous belief that a long toe is a longer stride.. totally bogus)
3. lack of breeding for a good sound hoof. You can make up allot of faults of conformation with an adequate foot.. but most horses don’t really have good feet anymore.
No horse should be ridden before age 2 , an even at that most shouldnt.
Racing is all about money an nothing more.
Theres no beauty to it , just greed.
Many can argue that easily saying the horses are doing what they love. Sure i’ll go along with that , but what about longevity in a horse?
Tb’s hardly have any , its almost completely unheard of in todays society of a racehorse continuing to race past 5…
No im not a carrot stick lover either , but I will not run a young one into the ground like horse racing does…
The interesting part is that the friends I was with at the sale have been around Thoroughbreds almost exclusively at the track, and they were surprised that I was surprised about how snarly they were. Their take was “that’s just how Thoroughbreds usually are.” I grew up with polo and most Thoroughbred polo ponies (many of whom are OTTB’s) are sweet pocket ponies. But then again, the first thing most polo people do with them is throw them out to pasture, so I guess most of my experience with them is post-detox.
I did buy a 7 year old fresh off the track last winter, and he was fine with people and very friendly but psycho about other horses. Four months of turnout, and he was all better. He desperately needed to detox and learn to be a horse again. He’s now showing 2’6 – 2’9 with his new owner and packing lesson kids.
First off, humans are funny when it comes to horses. Shiny, show shape and big sells well and isn’t necessarily the better animal at a sale. A true horseman can see past long hair and lack of grooming to see a diamond in the rough and may be buying a much better horse than the glamour horse. The seller is the one that suffers there so it’s pretty stupid on the sellers part to not groom up their animals for a sale.
I’m not surprised that a number of the TB mares were unfriendly. From what I’ve heard and read, they aren’t bred for their shining personalites but to be agressive and channel that agression to the race track. There are probably some bloodlines more unfriendly and agressive than others.
I believe the economy in general is the reason for lower TB prices. It’s not just the race horses, the cutting horses and reiners are not selling as well as they used to. I’m sure it’s the same in most disciplines. People just don’t have the disposable income of a few years back.
Oh, yes. The TB hoof. They simply have to have the worst feet, as a rule, of any other breed. My favorite farrier HATES shoeing TBs. He does shoe at a race training barn, and the only time it’s easy is when the new crop of 2 year olds have been at the training barn for a few weeks. When they first arrive they are basically wild, unhandled lunatics, after a couple of weeks they are very tired lunatics (and easier for one shoeing cycle), then they start building up muscle and become fit, full-of-themselves lunatics.
The two most common problems are flat soles and thin hoof walls. They pull shoes more often because of the thin walls, neccestating more nail holes to reattach shoe and then further weakening the hoof wall.
Personally, no matter how pretty or level-headed a horse is, if his feet are bad, I don’t want the headache of owning him.
One more post, then I’m off to check on horses (God, I’m glad I keep my horses at home – I’d hate to have to drive to the barn throughout the day to check on an ill horse!).
I do occasionally go to help out my favorite farrier – catching & holding horses. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE going with him to the racetrack. I do not like holding the racehorses. Most of the horses I hold do well, because I’ll pet them, and rub their heads or muzzles and love on them – racehorses DO NOT (as a rule) go for that. It doesn’t work. The trainer will come over and snatch, snatch, snatch on the chain shank, and then they may behave for a minute or two. They are BIG (generally), unloved, problem children. Sure, they would probably be a totally different horse with kind and loving handling and turnout – but at the track, they are mostly psychos.
uh, danzig, though brilliant as a sire, was the worst thing that could happen to horse racing (exaggerating obviously). His knees were terrible, I don’t know why that horse was ever bred, he won a maiden and 2 allowance races and was too unsound to continue racing.
so what were people’s instinct? LETS BREED HIM! Though many of his children were great, he definitely passed on those knees.
Also, you have incoming stud Stevie Wonderboy. won the breeders’ cup juvenile and hasn’t been sound since, they were trying to bring him back onto the track for awhile but he was to unsound. So now they are breeding him.
I don’t think it’s the tracks fault, the trainers fault (at least 4 times out of 5), or anyone’s fault but it’s just the horse’s breeding. go look at a successful race horse’s pedigree, I’m sure you will find a horse in there that stopped racing because they broke down.
But, it is scarring to see a horse break down. I saw George Washington break down at the Breeders’ Cup =[
http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/photo?slug=getty-rac-breeders__cup-classic&prov=Getty%20Images
my boss had a broodmare who was happy and well-cared for. turnout every day, lots of good hay, grained, feet cared for. never had a problem catching her in the field, she loved people! she raised nice babies, too.
some of the boarders had hard to catch, crabby horses. after spending a lil time in the pasture with them watching me feed the friendly ones apple cookies, it got so i could call them and the whole group would come to the gate to see what i had for them. LOTS better than chasing them all over a huge field, let me tell you!
when i had a gelding for sale a few years back, a potential buyer stopped in unexpectedly. the horses were turned out. so i hollered “Come on” and they came galloping to the gate. this is in a 15 acre pasture,and they were out of sight behind the trees and over the hill. it made quite an impression on the buyer, especially when Adam stuck his head in the halter i held out to him.
it isn’t that hard to have happy horses… it just takes time and care.
I think that the whole Barbaro saga is part of the reason racing is in a slump right now.
After a racing car accident with serious injuries, NASCAR typically sees a slump of 30% in viewership for 3 months. After a racing accident that involves a death, the slump is over 50% and lasts a year.
Cynics often say that people watch car racing to see the accidents and there’s a bit of truth there–if there’s an accident and everyone walks away unhurt or with very minor injuries, viewership goes up. But serious pain or death? No.
People enjoy watching dangerous sports but they don’t enjoy seeing people or horses get hurt while doing so. I don’t begrudge the Jacksons for trying everything to save Barbaro but I do think that it drew the whole thing out for so long that it had a disproportionate impact. Think about it–people are still talking about Ruffian breaking down and that was 32 years ago and lasted less than 24 hours.
The other reason racing is in a slump? The same reason that the horse industry and a whole lot of other businesses are in a slump. While the economists keep saying there’s an economic recovery going on, it’s only affecting the megacorps and the top 5% of the population. For the rest of us slouches, money is tight. People may seem to be making more than they did 20 years ago but in actual terms they’re making less.
When times are tight, the first thing people cut back on is their hobbies. While the top Thoroughbred breeders would like to think they carry the sport, it’s not true. It’s the people who go to the races once or twice a year and bet less than $20 who really carry the sport. And those are the people who are staying closer to home because gas prices are going up and because things are tight and it’s just not the right time to be frivoling money away on non-necessities.
It’s not just racing. Think about pro football and basketball; for every team that is being enthusiastically supported and making money hand over fist, there’s two teams that are losing money every season.
As for breakdowns, I think the rate is about the same factored out per race as it was fifty years ago. But with more races than ever before and with the internet, there are more breakdowns and breakdowns are more publicized than ever before. How many millions of people used the internet to track Barbaro’s day to day progress?
I’m guessing that Thoroughbred racing needs three things: a) an economic upswing so that people have more discretionary income; b) at least five really charismatic horses (not in the same class) that have appeal and are close enough in quality that any race two of them appear in is going to be exciting; c) less breeding for the bottom end of racing.
Although I don’t profess to know anything about race horses, I’d say one of the main reasons for more breakdowns is that the big names or money winners are retired to stud/brood so early that there is not a chance for them to prove their soundness, so to speak. Also with the advent of “The Horse Racing Channel”, internet, etc. the breakdowns are more widely published. JMO.
I think part of (and possibly more significantly) is that there are more racehorses than ever but bloodlines are SHRINKING (yes, shrinking), especially at the top level.
If I had a dollar for every OTTB owner who gloated “his grandsire was Seattle Slew!” or “she goes back to Secretariat!”, I’d be a millionaire. I shake my head because neither of those studs produced a whole heck of a lot worth merit, ESPECIALLY when you get into the 3rd and 4th generations. That’s like someone saying that they bred their grade fugly mare to an olympic stallion and they’re baby’s going to be high performance horse! *headdesk*
I think there is also a significant downgrade with breeding practices over the last decade or so. With the Sheiks buying ALL the Grade 1 horses and breeding them TO EACH OTHER…it’s no wonder we’re having problems. There’s so much inbreeding going on over there it makes me ill.
Today’s Thoroughbred, especially at the higher level, is solely bred for performance and bloodlines. Conformation is second thought, if at all. As long as the damn thing runs and runs well, who cares if he has weak cannons and faulty joints? We have bigger and bigger horses on weaker and weaker limbs. It can only get worse.
With the fact that racing is the most televised high performance equine spot, people only seem to see the bad. Even race enthusiasts like myself become disheartened when the drama of freak accidents becomes more and more prevalent each year.
>>After a racing car accident with serious injuries, NASCAR typically sees a slump of 30% in viewership for 3 months. After a racing accident that involves a death, the slump is over 50% and lasts a year.< <
That is VERY interesting for comparison purposes. I wonder if someone has figured out those statistics for horse racing after the Barbaro accident?
i can’t really comment on the horse racing thing, because i’ve never been involved.
i do know, however, that when i saw Barbaro break down, and the struggle to save him that followed, it made me not want to watch it anymore.
i know they often break down, and i’ve seen horses die. that doesn’t make it any easier to see though.
I think part of (and possibly more significantly) is that there are more racehorses than ever but bloodlines are SHRINKING (yes, shrinking), especially at the top level.
If I had a dollar for every OTTB owner who gloated “his grandsire was Seattle Slew!” or “she goes back to Secretariat!”, I’d be a millionaire. I shake my head because neither of those studs produced a whole heck of a lot worth merit, ESPECIALLY when you get into the 3rd and 4th generations. That’s like someone saying that they bred their grade fugly mare to an olympic stallion and they’re baby’s going to be high performance horse! *headdesk*
I think there is also a significant downgrade with breeding practices over the last decade or so. With the Sheiks buying ALL the Grade 1 horses and breeding them TO EACH OTHER…it’s no wonder we’re having problems. There’s so much inbreeding going on over there it makes me ill.
Today’s Thoroughbred, especially at the higher level, is solely bred for performance and bloodlines. Conformation is second thought, if at all. As long as the damn thing runs and runs well, who cares if he has weak cannons and faulty joints? We have bigger and bigger horses on weaker and weaker limbs. It can only get worse.
With the fact that racing is the most televised high performance equine spot, people only seem to see the bad. Even race enthusiasts like myself become disheartened when the drama of freak accidents becomes more and more prevalent each year.
Having worked in the racing industry in South Africa, Califronia, the U.K, and now Australia, I think I may be qualified to make a comment…..
Go down the row of stalls at an avrage racecourse in the US. Out of 20 or so horses, 75% will have issues with soundness. Its a matter of course to ice, poultice, stable bandage horses on the backstretch after every piece of fast work.
Now in contrast, have a walk down a stable row in the average trainer’s yard in the UK….
You may come across the odd horse wearing stable bandages, ice boots, poultices etc. Hardly any maintenance is needed after fast work
So what is the difference?
The track or training surface….
US – dirt tracks
UK – grass gallops, turf tracks
US – proliference of drugs to get that last penny out of some poor old claimer
UK – No drugs allowed.
US – horse is out excersizing about 20-40 minutes.
UK – they have to go for about 40 minutes or so to their gallops, and someimtes do about two or three (interval training), then walk home. Michael Stoute’s horses walk and trot 40 minutes before going out of his yard. They then take another 10 or so to get to where they will work, and also get to walk all the way home. They are really warmed up and ready for their fast work, which is a big factor to soundness.
US – any old Joe Blow can get a license, which is great in some ways, as it gives the battler a chance
UK – so damned expensive, have to own your own stables and staff quarters. Most trainers inherit their establishment and their knowledge. Very few people break into it without extensive knowledge of the game and shitloads of money.
US – many people have a stake in the horse’s daily life – grooms, hotwalkers, work riders, jockeys, pony riders.
UK – one person does it all, the stable lad grooms, rides and travels with their three or four horses. They KNOW their horses inside and out.
So a different way of doing business.
Also, a racehorse may have a slightly longer useful life in the UK. Particularly if they can stay. Those geldings and mares without spectacular breeding go on to become hurdlers, or point to point prospects or even steeplechasers. And they can because the surface they train on allows them to do so.
So, I can hear you all saying, well that’s just great, where do trainers get turf gallops in the US?
In Oz and South Africa, horses do their slow work on sand tracks inside the main tracks. They get to do their fast work and barrier trials on the turf. Now horses in Oz do have a higher ratio fo lameness issues than horses in the UK, however nowhere near the ratio as in the US. Also, no drugs allowed.
But some people, admittedly small scale breeders, do resist the trend to the degree that they can, but I’d guess it’s a small percentage. A friend started her racebred TB late in his 2 year old year. He shin bucked. They turned him out until he was 3. He was gelded (and she now regrets that, since he was a son of Flying Paster, who died relatively young (17) and doesn’t have too many breeding sons). They sent him back to the track a full 3 year old+. He raced until he was 7 or 8 and retired sound. Mostly an allowance winner. She never allowed him to run as a claimer. I believe he won an ungraded stake or two. Never out of the money.
I’d be happy if horse racing disappeared off the face of the earth. I’ve been at the track when horses broke their legs and had heart attacks. I don’t want to see any animal suffer like that for my ENTERTAINMENT, so i don’t go to horse races and I don’t support horse racing on any level. I wish I had the money to rescue these beautiful animals before they are killed in the name of entertainment.
Yes, I think they are ridden WAY too young. It is not unusual for long yearlings to have riders up. I understand even yearlings are sometimes ridden. Okay, they are ridden by very light handlers, but they shouldn’t BE ridden by anyone.
Careless owners, owners who see their horses as an investment and not as living, breathing creatures, the breeders who perpetuate bad, faulty strains, and the “get rich quick” nut jobs all need to have their horses taken away from them.
The footing situation is still a work in progress, but footing has little to do with horses being bred for that “greyhound” look with fragile bones and a svelte profile. It doesn’t help — but it’s the breeding that is bad, not what the horse stands on most of the time.
This is one of the reasons why my trainer stopped working on the race tracks; she HATES tbs (for their crappy attitudes).
Anywho, I think its just the stupidity in taking a 2yr horse, feeding him sugar loaded food w/ or w/out drugs, locking him up 23 hrs a day, and forcing him to run a mile for you just so you can pocket some extra cash. Its shameful.
I like tbs and I think its a shame that people, intelligent but greedy people, screw them up so much just for money.
fuglyhorseoftheday wrote: The interesting part is that the friends I was with at the sale have been around Thoroughbreds almost exclusively at the track, and they were surprised that I was surprised about how snarly they were. Their take was “that’s just how Thoroughbreds usually are.”
The more things change, the less things change.
When I started riding in 1967, the stable was full of OTTBs. The ones that had been there three months or more were normal horses. The ones fresh off the track? Nasty, ill tempered monsters that had every vice known to horsedom and some of them invented a few of their own.
On the track, they depend on overpowering the horse with pain or on management (arranging the environment instead of training the horses). Horse doesn’t lead well? Put the chain over the nose or through the mouth. Horse doesn’t like to be groomed? Slap a twitch on it. I’d be pretty crabby too if being twitched was part of my daily routine!
On a lot of farms, the most common reason to handle broodmares is when someone is going to do something unpleasant to them. They’re suspicious about anyone who wants to take them anywhere and a lot of them aren’t backwards about showing it, either.
The stable owner made money on OTTBs that he just had for three months and let us kids get the crazy out of them. They didn’t really know a whole lot more about under saddle work than when they came in but they knew a lot more about groundwork and general manners. They knew how to lead, how to stand in crossties, how to stand for the farrier, how to longe, how to ground drive and how to balance themselves. And they had started to trust that humans were usually pretty good to be around.
I will never forget the trip a group of us teenaged girls took in the early 70s to the Keeneland July Sale and pretended to have lots of money so we could look at the yearlings. I doubt we fooled anyone but the grooms were very nice to all of us. We had a blast.
I’ll never forget meeting one groom who only had one hand. He lost the other hand to a kick from a newly retired colt. There were also a couple grooms who were missing part or all of fingers–bitten off by TBs fresh off the track. Almost every groom had bite scars on their arms.
Those grooms explained that the horses they dealt with were so valuable that they were expected to put up with anything the horse did because ordinary discipline might take away some of its drive to win.
The yearlings were gorgeous and all extremely well bred. They were also downright nasty, not because they’d been mistreated but because no one was allowed to explain to them that nipping, striking, kicking are not appropriate to direct at humans.
So, that’s the view from the bottom to the top of TB racing (at least back in the late sixties/early seventies). No one seemed to have ordinary manners as a priority, so the TBs had no manners.
But they came around very quickly and were mostly pretty sweet horses.
OMG – I hadn’t seen anything on George Washington! I mean, I knew he had been put down on the track, and I knew he broke his leg, but I hadn’t seen any videos or images of his leg.
My stomach just turned!
…
I feel sick now.
my experience so far at the track (ok i’ve been there for 2 summers but I also worked for a FANTASTIC trainer who was HONESTLY concerned about his horses, and I learned a TON because of exposure and he and his wife involved me in a lot of what they did behind the scenes as well as up on the track) and for the record I worked at Woodbine Racetrack in Toronto (for some context)
1. They resurfaced the main racing track last summer with this new Polytrack stuff. Now I’d heard fantastic things about it, and shortly after it was put down I got to walk on it, and I found it quite comfy. The only issue??? They put it down wrong. We had so many more issues this summer when compared to others of anything from horses going lame for a day or two, to fairly serious fractures and even a couple breakdowns.
2. As someone else said, the breeding of the horses is becoming so narrow. One of my friends father (who is a trainer) just had to retire his top mare. She has “no name” breeding. Until she won a couple of stakes races she was off everyone’s map despite being a solid horse. Even one of the horses I worked with this summer has hereditary knee issues (she has them, her half sister has them, and after some research I discovered her sire had bad knees as well!) BUT – because she had speed, she’s a “great” broodmare possibility.
3. They are raced way too young. All of the two year olds I worked with this summer didn’t race until REALLY late July or even mid to late august. So yes, they are still young, but it’s still better than racing them in April/May. I walked into the barn a couple weeks ago and there was a trainer up from another nearby racetrack who was training yearlings… YEARLINGS! I couldn’t believe it!
*sigh* I think we have to go back and start infusing more breeds back into the thoroubred and start getting stronger legs and hoofs back into the breed. It’s become so selective that we’ve bred for all these great racing traits at the expense of the horses health. It’s really sad to see.
I only read QH racing press, but it appears some proponents of the industry feel like the Barbaro thing was good for horse racing in general–obviously, mostly TB racing. I guess they mean the horse gaining noterity, getting ascribed a personality, etc., rather than that whole pain and death part of the ordeal.
A visit to the FOBs makes it seem that lots of people who didn’t care about horse racing are now into it… Perhaps if the circumstances and timing of the death had been different…
One editor (Speedhorse) seems to wish QH racing would find its own hero. IMHO they have plenty of heroes–the racehorses that go on to productive second careers, the people that get them there, or the breeders who consider 2nd careers when making their breeding and training decisions. I just like the horse as hero idea better as that means I have several in my barn.
I have heard old man opinion that you want your mares fiery. I have also heard that if horses aren’t aggressive enough (either gender) they won’t win. We do have one fiery old mare. She hates being in a stall and will act like she’ll bite you. If you go in there with her, she’s fine, and she’s fine outside, or tied anywhere. Solution? We built her a lean-to so she can come and go as she wishes. It’s not like it’s good for her to be sitting in a stall all the time. The stud we selected for her is one described as not aggressive enough, even though he did well as a racehorse. The combo turned out perfectly in the filly. Sweet and easy to handle, but at 2, she’s the alpha mare after her mom. The colt is acting like he’s going to be more mellow than I would like but he is only a baby right now, so I’m not concerned. An easy going gelding is never a bad thing!
Another thing with selling bred mares–it’s really too bad that there is the mindset that if they’re not bred, there must be a problem with that mare. That’s really a shame.
I wrote: After a racing car accident with serious injuries, NASCAR typically sees a slump of 30% in viewership for 3 months. After a racing accident that involves a death, the slump is over 50% and lasts a year.
fuglyhorseoftheday wrote: That is VERY interesting for comparison purposes. I wonder if someone has figured out those statistics for horse racing after the Barbaro accident?
I’m sure someone has. The person responsible for setting advertising prices for the Triple Crown races, for instance. The single best indicator of television’s estimate of viewership (which is usually pretty darn accurate) is how much they charge for advertising time.
Those comments on TB feet being BAd is total and complete BUNK.
The feet of of the horse are not to blame. I have taken many “crappy TB hooved” horses and with proper trimming they have some of the nicest feet of all the horses I trim.
The hooves and the breeding isn’t the problem, it’s the care and lack of proper turnout and nutrition that causes them to have the feet they do when they are on, or come off the track, and instead of trying to build a strong foot from the inside out, most people just keep on shoeing and caring for them they way they already were and it just continues them on the path of crappy feet!
The inner structures of the hoof are developed from proper movement ( heel first impact) from day one as a foal. TB’s don’t live the normal life of a horse when they are bred for the track and so they don’t develop a strong digital cushion or lateral cartilages that allow the hooves to support the weight of an adult horse. They are trimmed to be long and under run, and if you don’t slowly start building up those inner structures, the horses will never be comfortable landing heel first and so that long toe and under run heel just keeps on doing what it’s doing. The dropped soles are also due to the toe first landings and lack of inner structure development.
ALL that stuff is easy to fix but I see very little effort for people to ever do so. Everyone just accepts the fact that “TB’s have crappy feet” and never try otherwise.
As for the crappy hoof wall….again.. if they aren’t moving around properly and getting a good solid HORSE diet, they grow amazingly strong hooves! I have on client at the moment.. a TB mare in her late teens, raced and never without a shoe since a foal, her owners never thought it possible. She now has GORGEOUS, HARD, CONCAVE feet and is ridden on gravel trails without shoes. Didn’t take long to get her there either.
If Tbs all had crap feet then so would all the cross breds, and we KNOW that’s not the case.. it’s not the breed, it’s how they are raised!
Nicole
Kinda OT, kinda NOT: People say “racehorses LOVE to run; they’re bred to run; they have heart” etc. etc. I question this wisdom in ALL disciplines, such as “My horse LOVES to rein-cut-jump-polebend-road trot-show-pull buggy-etc.” While my own show horses do brighten and puff up with self importance as they go through the ingate for a class, when they are at ease I don’t see them knocking down the tackroom door to shrug into their harnesses and bridles and back between the cart shafts. Given their druthers they prefer a flake of hay, a nap, another flake of hay, some pasture time, more hay…..
Let’s face it, our horses do what we ask of them with good grace, and bless ‘em for it, but I’d put money on any horse preferring a romp in the pasture over a workout under saddle. Oh, admittedly some are hot house flowers who love their stalls (I have a few of those), and some jump for joy over a fence (the grass being greener on the other side, of course), and many jump onto the van for a field trip to a show (notice the plump haybags inside the van?)
Horses are herd and prey animals who would chose their own kind and tall grass over any activity we dream up for them. IMHO.
Hi – I was going to go to the sale yesterday, but didn’t. Do you happen to know what weanling #15 went for? I might be glad I wasn’t there
Haven’t read all the comments today yet – trying to get kids ready for school (it’s Tues morning here – always said we were ahead of you guys! HaHa)(also shows how adicted to this Blog I have become…sad). But just had a thought.
Someone asked me recently why I thought the Australian horse industry wasn’t in such bad shape as the US one (they also commented that we didn’t seem to have so many people breeding those nutty crosses – well they ARE on the rise but that’s a whole other story).
After reading yesterdays and todays topics and reading FHOTDs comment today:
“I am not opposed to good quality registered horse sales like these….”
I thought “Gee they really do seem to have just HEAPS of auctions and sales over there!”
And it got me thinking – maybe that’s one of the big differences.
Because in contrast we have very few auction type sales. Well at least I think we do. Where I live in Adelaide, South Australia I only know of one regular auction for horses (outside the TB sales which are only once a year in Feb for TB yearlings and another couple throughout the year for older horses and broodies) and I think it only runs once a month (maybe once a week?). I’ve only ever been to it once, years ago (bought 2 very nice ponies that myself and a girlfriend did up and sold on). I think from memory there was only about 50 at the MAX horses go through. None of them was lame or really thin.
We have only one abatoir in SA that will slaughter horses (I think) and there really isn’t a LOT of horses that go to the ‘doggers’. If someone has a horse they can’t get rid of they can ring the doggers and they will come pick the horse up – no sale involved (Not saying I approve of this AT ALL – just pointing out what happens here sometimes).
I guess what I’m getting at in this long ramble is that if you want to sell a horse in Australia, sales aren’t an option usually considered by many because there aren’t many. They’re not the norm – you have to get off your butt and advertise it to sell instead.
My point is that while we DO have the option of slaughter for our unwanted horses, we DON’T have the sales that allow an ‘easy sell’ for people overbreeding like you guys do. Therefore people considering breeding don’t think “Well gee if they don’t sell after I advertise I’ll just rung them through the ring” so they don’t breed huge quantities. Sure there are some idiots that still do but I’m sure this ‘no easy sell’ accounts hugely for our much lower slaughter rates.
Just a thought – maybe it’s not having slaughter houses that’s the problem but having so many ‘easy sell’ sale options!
(NOOOO idea how you could change this – just commenting)
the-farmer’s-wife said…
Kinda OT, kinda NOT: People say “racehorses LOVE to run; they’re bred to run; they have heart” etc. etc. I question this wisdom in ALL disciplines, such as “My horse LOVES to rein-cut-jump-polebend-road trot-show-pull buggy-etc.” While my own show horses do brighten and puff up with self importance as they go through the ingate for a class, when they are at ease I don’t see them knocking down the tackroom door to shrug into their harnesses and bridles and back between the cart shafts. Given their druthers they prefer a flake of hay, a nap, another flake of hay, some pasture time, more hay…..
Let’s face it, our horses do what we ask of them with good grace, and bless ‘em for it, but I’d put money on any horse preferring a romp in the pasture over a workout under saddle. Oh, admittedly some are hot house flowers who love their stalls (I have a few of those), and some jump for joy over a fence (the grass being greener on the other side, of course), and many jump onto the van for a field trip to a show (notice the plump haybags inside the van?)
Horses are herd and prey animals who would chose their own kind and tall grass over any activity we dream up for them. IMHO.
December 3, 2007 2:03 PM
i do agree with you.. they would rather be eating or napping or socializing with other horses… but what you do with them daily can make them like to be with you! (just like harsh treatment can make them hate you!)
I’m from NY. IMO it has nothing to do with horses, breeders, abuse or anything we do. The racetracks here are coveted REAL ESTATE to be developed. And I suspect NY state is not the only state where developers see prime places to build and make a killing. I am actually not despondent that the real estate market is going down. A lack of space eventually kills the backyard and public stables too. Horses can live without turnout, but everyone needs a place to ride and that’s just disappearing.
I think TBs come by their rotten feet reputations quite honestly. Even here (QH country!) farriers complain about the TB feet, even the ones that OWN TBs… I’ve known many TBS that spent their whole lives practically outside, well fed (not over fed), good exercise, etc. and they STILL have think soles, shelley hooves. But esp. the thin soles. Breed bad footed horses to bad footed horses and odds are pretty good even more bad footed horses will result.
I know of plenty of bad footed appendix Qhs and WBs too so I think that yes they have certainly spread the joy around!
My dad grew up in a major Standardbred area in the 50s. He has never been a horse person but they had races during his county fair and there’s plenty of downtime in the cow barn so he’d go watch a lot of races. In the five or so years he spent at that fair he thinks he saw at least four serious wrecks and one crumple death (likely a heart attack). It wasn’t something that made him stop watching but it did convince him there was no way in hell I was racing a sulkie when I suggested it at ten (our neighbor did a bit, never seriously or well). At least one of the serious wrecks killed two horses and a person.
So not the tbred industry but there have always been these public breakdowns.
in my not terribly informed opinion…
- racing at 2 is a huge problem.
- breeding for speed alone is a huge problem.
- there’s a lot of competition for gambling dollars, and racing dropped the ball on this one.
and so forth. Not anything anyone has not already said.
I have to say that this makes me happy that the Good Mare, who’s a TB, was never raced. She’s still Miss ADD, and terribly, terribly herdbound, but she’s manageable and very talented. And, compared to most racing TBs, she has great bone, good hooves, etc.
I just started working with racehorses. I run a stable (hopefully soon to be facility). My boss has a love for racehorses (horses). He is just getting back into the business and I’m excited to be part of it.
The horses on the farm are treated like horses. They get turnout, obviously more in better weather! They get to live normal lives. Am I happy about them being ridden so early, nope. My boss is still doing it, however his yearling are behind compared to other owners. We started them about a month ago and all we are doing is walk/trot in the indoor. He says that they have the rest of their lives to be racehorses. They will hopefully run next August. We had a horse on the track this past summer and when he needed time he got all the time he needed. He was pampered and treated very well. However, I feel that if I was not there he would not have gotten the care at the track that he should have. Too many horses under one trainer and not enough help.
I’m new to a lot of this so I can’t offer too much of an opinion, but I will say that I think the industry is down. I don’t know if it’s racing or just horses. He bought some nice yearling in KY this year, some were expensive where as the cheapest brought in $3000. They were all polished and looking good. Now here’s our problem. He had a few mares that he bred. This year only one mare took so now he really doesn’t want to be bothered with the breeding end of it. Kudos to him! I’m thrilled about that. Now if I could get him to geld his studs!! lol! The 2 mares that didnt’ take this year he would like to sell, but isn’t going to dump them. The market is horrible!! No one wants a TB mare! I’m out of time as far as training goes. Too many horses and there’s only me. What would you do ???
I also heard the racing industry (in Ohio) took a hit when Ohio said no to gambling machines. Anyone else hear that ?
Going on the comment that TBs are mean spirited horses – I couldn’t disagree more. It’s the treatment of the horse that creates the monster.
I used to be totally disheartened by the fact that racehorses in the US were treated like caged lions, whips chains over the nose or under the top lip, constantly yanked on.
Compare this to your average racehorse in the UK or Ireland who is led in a headcollar or simple snaffle bridle. They are ridden on roads amongst traffic and are treated like HORSES! The well ebing factor has a lot to do with soundness. A happy horse will develop less stable vices and the health problems associated with them.
I love TBs. They are the most honest and courageous horses. Its not accident that the best eventers are TBs. They are brave and they have heart.
As for feet, its the feeding and care they receive that creates good feet. Yes some are more prone to flat feet than other breeds however most have pretty good feet (particularly in comparison to QH’s).
I agree with Taldara in that we don’t have such a disposable attitude to horses here in Oz. Yes there are horse sales but they are few and far between. (Now that horses are vaccinated against EI and there may be a holding time on slaughtering for meat, will play an interesting role in the dogger business).We also have horses that are in the most purpose bred, although the BYB breeders are growing in number and part bred freisians seem to be proliferating, aaargh.
The state of the game here in Oz is in flux due to EI and it will be interesting to see what ramifications it has on the racing industry. Many of the average joes have taken up another job to tide themselves through the disaster and I think many will not return, which could be a good thing. Less crappy horses, less crappy trainers etc.
I won’t try to address the motives and ethics of some breeders. You do that well enough.
I believe several things have caused the decreased popularity of racing. Barbaro and increased coverage of other tragic injuries, increased availability of gambling options, smaller entertainment budgets for marginal fans, decreased amount of time for the average person for recreation (what time they have has to count!), and the increasing gap between most people and anything rural or associated with nature and animals (there’s no joystick at the track).
I am not opposed to racing, but I think that the industry needs to be revisted.There are probibly more scams in the racing industry than all the other branches of horse competition put together!!I think that there should NOT be races for 2 year olds…period.That alone would probibly cut down on alot of the injuries.
This winter sale can be harsh – it has never brought great prices. The kill buyer is always there to haul away the used up mares, fugly weaners and broken down racers. I have sold horses at this sale, and you have to go into it turned out well. I went in with excellently turned out horses with crap pedigrees and did pretty well considering. Most horses sold there will run there, or Hastings in Canada, California, or Japan. The manager who took over after I left my farm didn’t clean up the yearlings at all and got about $300-$400 for them, you have to turn out at that sale.
Artifical surfaces are good but horses with bad legs will break down (on any surface)..
e.g. The popularity of Mr. Prospector – whose babies have precocious speed, but Mr. Prospector had bad legs… but nobody’s NOT going to breed a Mr. Prospector mare or stallion…..
So, I guess I should say that I hate the racing industry. Unfortunately there is no other PROFITABLE way to do the industry. You just cannot expect owners to keep pastures full of 2-3 year olds waiting for them to grow up. Our only hold out is to hope the gamblers have more fun with slots and cards and leave the horses and dogs alone!
I think TB’s are known for bad feet because most of them do have bad feet. I’m not saying that there aren’t any good footed TBs out there, but as a general rule they don’t. Perhaps nutrition and living conditions are a factor in this, but not all the TB’s he trims are racehorses. Of the many TB’s my farrier has worked with over the years, he has ONE who has genuinely good, strong hooves (and yes, it’s on pasture with a run-in stall). He prefers a barefoot horse, trims to achieve a healthy hoof and ideally get the horse out of shoes (except you can’t do that with racehorses). He’s certainly not the first person (farrier or not) I’ve talked to who has rated the TB’s (as a breed) as top of the list in the bad feet department.
And I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree with the statement “particularly in comparison to QH’s” – yes, the halter bred horses have a horrible reputation for their hooves, but that’s not all that’s out there. I would be totally comfortable saying that “as a rule” the majority of QH have much better feet than the majority of TB’s. That’s based on both my personal experience AND the opinion of any farrier I’ve ever spoken to about the subject. The worst-footed horse (and he wasn’t too bad) I personally ever owned was out of my QH mare bred to an Appendix stallion (VERY heavy TB blood) – and the resultant foal was obviously a QH in body, you could see the TB influence in his feet.
I would disagree regarding the merits of Secretariat in a pedigree. While he did not produce large numbers of big name stakes winners directly, he is now highly valued as a broodmare sire.
After owning a racehorse or two, and having many close friends who race both QHs and TBs, I can tell you that racehorses today in the U. S. are bred for speed. Pure and simple. Just like any other discipline, money governs what is bred. Most TB breeders breed for the market instead of breeding for a racehorse. That is where the money is.
If you look back through the statistics for racing in, say, the 1950s, you will find many horses making 100 to 200 starts or more in their racing careers. You don’t see that today. The very top horses are lucky to make 10 starts in their lifetimes.
Combine breeding for speed (and not soundness or conformation excellence), with trainers wanting to “make” a racehorse in short order, you will have soundness problems and breakdowns. I really don’t think the racing surfaces have a whole lot to do with it, because what were the surfaces like 50 years ago? 100 years ago? Hell, TB racehorses from Domino’s era (1890s) ran 4 mile heats – several times a day, in fact.
When you have horses such as Mr. Prospector, Raise A Native and the like who get fast colts in spite of soundness issues, the money takes over and they are bred on in spite of any issues.
Then you have the surgeries to “correct” visible angular deformities on the higher dollar sale yearlings. When those horses go on to race, guess what happens? Something has to give when that column of bones is not correct.
TBs have bad feet? Only if it’s bred into them. The sale yearlings are shod up front. What more can I say?
Money corrupts all, I’m afraid.
I worked at a TB farm in KY. All we had at that farm were the broodmares and newly weaned foals. All our broodmares were really nice. But and this is the huge but .. mares and foals were turned out all day every day unless it was just horrible weather. We brought them in at night and turned them out first thing in the morning. The foals and mares were groomed daily and handled a lot. Foals were tied and had their feet picked daily & brushed so they were great to work with on a daily basis.
For the mares that didn’t take that year, they were all turned out 24/7 until it got late enough in the year to have to be under lights.
I was in charge of fitting yearlings for the Keenland sales. We only walked & trotted them in the round pen from the ground. They were not ridden.
Then again these were yearlings that actually brought $40+k.
I don’t know, I think TB feet are as much nurture as nature. About one third of our barn (H/J) is OTTB, and they all pretty much have good feet, but it took a while- really good food, excellent care, great farrier. One of ours was barefoot for a year until she started doing higher fences and harder work, and got shoes in front. Her feet are like a pony’s- hard, wide, sound. My horse had totally crap feet when I got him- loooong toe, short heel- and now they are hard, wide and tough.
The two horses with the worst feet in the barn are a QH and a Trakehner!
As far as the racing industry- well, it sure didn’t give my horse a great life. He came to me with such horrendous ground manners we were worried he wouldn’t be safe to have in our barn. He kicked, bit, lunged at the stall door when people passed, gave everyone the mean face all.the.time, hated being brushed, wouldn’t let me anywhere near his ears, kicked his stall walls so much I had them lined with rubber mats to protect his hocks, and pinned his ears and swished his tail angrily when I’d pat him on the neck or talk to him. Or look at him. Or stand near him.
On the other hand, he’s smart and interested in what is going on, is incredibly easy to teach, he always likes to poke his nose in to see what I’m doing, and he loves his turnout buddy. This second horse is what I think my horse could have been. The first one was created by the racing industry that bred him, chewed him up, ran the snot out of him and spit him out.
I still deal with many of the same issues every day with my guy- after two years- and he probably will never totally trust people, or, in turn, be trustworthy around them. And that pisses me off to no end. I can now touch his ears (although clipping them involves practically putting him under), I know the warning signs and can head him off before he starts waving a leg around, he hasn’t taken a chunk out of me in a while, although he tries as a matter of habit, and everyone in the barn knows to be careful around him, and he is otherwise very easy to handle, so he got to stay.
He’s just so defensive- and it breaks my heart. I love on him, and I’m firm and quiet and gentle and don’t put up with him being a bully, and my trainer is the same way- but he just wont trust us completely. There was ABSOLUTELY NO NEED for my horse- any horse-to come off the track like this, and it has completely changed how I feel about the industry.
>>Going on the comment that TBs are mean spirited horses – I couldn’t disagree more. It’s the treatment of the horse that creates the monster.< <
I agree completely. I’ve always had sweet, sweet, SWEET Thoroughbreds and they were almost exclusively OTTB’s. When I see an angry, bitchy TB, I know bad management/bad handling has made them that way…and it pisses me off.
Interesting comment about Danzig and bad knees…the thing I don’t like about the $100 filly is her knees! I guess there you go…
Hairybeasties, I particularly think what you had to say about how differently they are conditioned in the U.K. is relevant. One of these days, I am going to have a big, long, angry fit on the blog about how people in general are bloody fucking CLUELESS about equine conditioning. I see people ALL THE TIME take some poor horse out of a field and go on a 6 hour trail ride. Or take it to a gaming show when they’ve ridden it 3 times that summer, total. Or get a horse in from a dealer that they have no history on, for all they know it hasn’t been ridden since 2005, and jump the bejeesus out of it the first day! I’ve seen h/j trainers put a horse into a white foamy sweat doing that. Too many horsepeople are ignorant as rocks about conditioning, and I think it’s the #1 main cause of breakdowns, lameness, etc.
I think that a lot of the problems with racing stem back to the race track itself. At a lot of tracks, the people in charge are not necessarily “horse people”. They are trying to make money and just fill races. They don’t understand that by creating cheap races, the only horses produced are going to be cheap racehorses, where the trainer/owner has just produced and trained as fast as possible to make a dollar. At the race track that I worked at, there were so many cheap races, and there were always “trainers”, that would run their horses into the ground at a young age in these cheap races. When they broke down, they would get a different cheap horse to fill it’s spot. If the race tracks stopped running so many cheap races, and you actually had to have a well bred horse with good confo in order to win, there wouldn’t be as many people breeding shitty horses.
There are so many people that give racing a bad name. The people that I worked for, and the people that were in the same barn as we were, always took wonderful care of their horses. Of about 50 horses in the barn, there were only 3 that were unhappy pissy little things. I’m just saying, that not all race people are bad, even if they are at the cheap tracks.
Fug – I recently had someone ask after my gelding. She wanted to know if he’d be able to do a foxhunt once or twice a year. I said no. She then complained that I was selling him as a ‘going show horse’ but he couldn’t do a measly fox hunt. It’s not like she was going to ride him into the ground the rest of the year or anything.
When I asked her what her conditioning program would be for these 1-2 fox hunts would be there was a verrrry long pause on the other end of the line.
Needless to say she thinks I’m a wacko bitch, and I think she’s usless and clueless. Obviously not a sale.
As a fan, I can’t really pinpoint one reason. It’s sad, though. However, we do have TOO many races for such a SMALL market – I honestly think tracks closing is a GOOD thing for the industry right now. Do away with so many grade one races, help bring the great horses together instead of dodging each other. Racing in April of their 2-year-old year and then retiring in November of their 3-year-old year does NOTHING good for the industry. Racing at 2 is rough, but the 3 year old races are as old as the industry, not just the Triple Crown in the US but in Europe (the 2000 Guineas, the Epsom Derby), so…it hasn’t ALWAYS been a problem, if it’s lasted this long.
Trainers being businessmen, not horse people. Tagg, Matz, Jerkins, they’re horsemen, Pletcher, Baffert…who knows. That’s a problem. I don’t know if polytrack is good for the horses or not – installed correctly, most certainly. It wreaked havoc on the Del Mar meet, the bettors and fans hated it, but the Cushion Track at Hollywood and Santa Anita seems to be going over well. Too many horses, definitely. Like I said, WAY too many grade one races, early retirement…most of the greatest horses were long-time runners, sound or at least decently so, and they always tried. Seabiscuit, Seattle Slew, Cigar…this year is the first year since 2002 that all of the top Derby contenders raced into the fall, and possibly the first time in a VERY long time that we may see one of the stars of the Triple Crown trail race at four (Curlin.)
There are a lot of problems with the industry, but you can’t get it bleeding into what’s wrong with the horses. Two different things, mostly. The condition of the horses hurts new fans, but the condition of the business doesn’t necessarily hit the horse side of it, I suppose. Anyway, I’m hardly making any sense, now. I’ll go. =P
Hiya,
I worked for 6 years in the UK’s governing body of horseracing (Race Planning).
I totally agree with Hairybeasties assessment! There are things that could do with changing in UK racing – but it is trying and is improving horse welfare all the time.
Regarding surfaces – most trainers now have an artificial surface to train horses on – with the improvement in surface, comes an improvement in soundness and longevity of the horses. This translates onto the All Weather (as we call the surface) courses. The US HAS to move into the 21st Century and stop running horses on such an old fashioned, defunct surface as “dirt”. Another factor I have been led to believe is a reason for breakdowns in the US is that all the tracks are always in the same direction – here our course are either right handed, left handed and a couple that are both!! Please correct me if I am wrong.
I also think riding yearlings is bad. However – I think the practise of riding 2yo Warmbloods in dressage as they do on the continent is worse – the warmblood is a bigger, less mature animal until at least 7 – and forcing them to work deep is dreadful. While riding and racing 2yo’s is not great I believe that the ultimate damage is less in comparison – but would be better none.
However in the UK it was found that the most dangerous races were the Jump Flat races – races with no jumps but over 2 miles for horses who had never run under Flat Rules. These National Hunt stores were left out in a field until they were 4 (I also worked for a NH Stud) and then put into light work – some didn’t get fit and hit the track until they were six.Great I hear you say – BUT veterinary research showed that there was a very very much higher incidence of catastrophic break downs in the bones in these races. These races are often run at the end of card and thus on the worst of the ground, but the main influence is that the horse had not had the early speed training that strengthens bones. The right kind of training, younger (interval, speed, short bursts – even unmounted) dramatically reduces the injury rate. As a result we brought in Bumper races for 3 yo horses over a shorter distance – and when I left the injury rates were starting to come down.
So the conclusion I would draw from that is that it is highly beneficial for young horses to do speed training, on the right surface, in the right way, preferably without carrying a rider (could they be ponied?). What effect this has on the longevity of tendons however I know not.
I also agree that foot balance correction would make a dramatic increase in soundness in racehorses.
Niki (from Wales)
So much for things are better in Aussie land on turf. Funny, none of you TB racing guru’s mentioned the horrific breakdown of Bay Story in Race 3 on the day of the Melbourne Cup. Both jocks had rides in the MC but weren’t quite up to it after this:
Bay Story
The horse’s leg actually came off after he got back up and tried to run again. ugh!
My most favorite riding horses were mostly TB or full TB. They were so smart and generous. My most fav was a TB grey mare, she was so sweet and did everything for me. I think it’s all on how you raise them. Their smart and sensitive horses.
OT, but I was wondering how to find out what happened to a gelding I used to watch race at Emerald Downs. His name was With Majesty
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/with+majesty
Any tips on tracking him down?
email me at nosebot at yahoo
I don’t know much of the ins and outs of racing but I too sure wish they didn’t start them so young.
You don’t see that today. The very top horses are lucky to make 10 starts in their lifetimes.
I don’t know…I hung around a harness racing track, and grandpa used to run a breeding/training operation, and those horses were/are making 200 starts before retiring to the breeding shed (of course they are breeding
)
Maybe that’s only the exceptional ones though.
Also, as for wrecks…look at chuckwagon racing if you want horror. I think there is a wreck every single year at the Calgary Stampede…and no one EVER talks about stopping the races. They are a HUGE draw, and one of the biggest money-makers in rodeo.
According to some drivers, OTTBs make the best chuckwagon horses…but only the aggressive ones.
Chuckwagon owners, I think, love their horses. They appreciate a strong work ethic and work very hard to keep their “good ones” in prime shape and sound.
But the wrecks…
My thoughts on thoroughbreds and flat-track racing:
Thoroughbreds are being bred now in such a way to make most useless for other sports. They are more and more built like sprinters, with hind limb conformation that makes them less than ideal for dressage and jumping. There are very few good mid-distance and longer distance runners, and these milers are what you want to bred jumpers.
The races are so short that you can’t tell a thoroughbred from a quarter horse.
Horsepeople are well aware of the dangers in running 2yo’s. Unfortunately I don’t see the original format of racing (multiple miles) coming back. The betting public likes the short stuff, even if the horse-public doesn’t.
I like watching the races, but only the mile ones…
My personal track experience is with QH’s. A neighbor but one of her QH’s on the track. She did break her maiden, and won a few races, but ended up injured. Bringing her back from the injury was real rough at first due to the 25 pounds of daily grain she was eating while on the track… It takes a long while for that food idiocy to go away. She’s now a trail horse and broodmare.
The BEST book on handling racehorses I’ve ever read is Tom Iver’s “The Fit Racehorse II”. It’s simply incredible!
Doodledog – good for you for asking, and good for you for not selling to her.
Can someone please explain to my why TBs are always shod? Has anyone run them barefoot? If so, what were the results?
I’m just wondering if they are always shod because that’s the way it’s always been done or if there is a real reason behind it.
I think it is unfair to make blanket statements about how “TB people are” or “are not.” I currently work on a TB farm in Lexington, Ky., the heart and soul of horse racing. We have everything from weanlings to yearlings to lay-ups to broodmares on the property, and not one of them has a bad attitude or a miserable demeanor. Sure, some of the colts are a bit nippy, but they get punished for biting and other vices, unlike what some people think.
Our horses are out over 99% of the time, and not the opposite. They only come in for about an hour a day to be fed and groomed, then we kick them right back out to their 5-15 acre fields with all their buddies. Every morning when we go to get them they’re waiting at the gate, happy and willing to lead with manners on their way in. I would, admittedly, be lying if I said they were all angels every day, but for the most part we have all very well-behaved horses.
When these mares are bred, *everything* is considered, from bloodlines to conformation to size and weight of the stallion. It’s not arbitrary, and generally inbreeding is avoided. They are cared for religiously, and they don’t resent us for bringing them in to be palpated. They love us for bringing them in to be fed and loved on.
I know this doesn’t answer the breakdown dilemma. I don’t know a racing person out there who wouldn’t love to solve that very big issue! While there are people in the industry who are more greedy than caring, it is a very wrong assumption to say most of them don’t care. We do. We care a LOT. Some of us care because we’re passionate about the horses, and some of us care because it’s a business and we want to do well. Either way, though, the thought is there.
About sales. I’ve worked TB sales in So California, Arizona, and Kentucky, so I’ve seen all angles of them. In So Cal and KY, it would be a complete farce to say all the yearlings are “crazy” and “mean.” Most of them have been handled daily from the day they hit the ground. They quickly catch on to the routine of the sale and only get a bit excited when they actually go through the ring because, well, hey, it’s new and most any breed of horse would get excited in that situation. Arizona is more like what Fugly described of the Washington sale. Some great looking animals, and some fuzzy, underfed babies who need serious attention.
I feel like the racing industry isn’t any different from any other equine industry. It’s just that it’s the BIGGEST equine industry, making the stats look inflated.
I got a bit tangential there, so I apologize.
-steps off soap box-
The most discouraging thing about this thread is that the same things are being discussed here that were issues 30+ years ago when I was working at tracks. The surfaces may have improved; not much else.
I am getting a giggle about the hoof quality discussion, though. The TBs, WBs, Arabs, etc. and especially SBs almost all seem to have good feet- the flat-footed, shelly-walled critters are mostly QHs. They’re the ones my farrier doesn’t like.
Galen said “I am getting a giggle about the hoof quality discussion, though. The TBs, WBs, Arabs, etc. and especially SBs almost all seem to have good feet- the flat-footed, shelly-walled critters are mostly QHs. They’re the ones my farrier doesn’t like.”
It makes me wonder if geography has anything to do with the hoof quality in the TB’s vs. QH’s. I grew up around horses in south Florida, and am currently still in the SE US. In my horse experience it’s always been ‘understood’ that the TB hoof was not as good, and the QH was much better (not saying they are the best, but better than TB’s). Maybe it could stem from the breeding stock available in whichever part of the country we are in.
Interesting article on the general decline of the horse market. Probably the vocabulary and syntax is beyond the fugly BYBs but worthwhile reading for the rest of us:
http://www.corralonline.com/articles/article060406190644.htm
I just had to take a moment and comment on the picture. That yearling colt was the one a friend of mine was outbid on. He really wanted that boy. Apparently that farm produces some nice looking horses.
the farmer’s wife… I could not get the link to work.
the-farmer’s-wife said… Kinda OT, kinda NOT: People say “racehorses LOVE to run; they’re bred to run; they have heart” etc. etc. I question this wisdom in ALL disciplines, such as “My horse LOVES to rein-cut-jump-polebend-road trot-show-pull buggy-etc.” While my own show horses do brighten and puff up with self importance as they go through the ingate for a class, when they are at ease I don’t see them knocking down the tackroom door to shrug into their harnesses and bridles and back between the cart shafts. Given their druthers they prefer a flake of hay, a nap, another flake of hay, some pasture time, more hay…..
OK – HERE is your proof – some horses just LOVE what they do!! Too funny!
(must give credit to a friend of mine for turning me on to this video)
sarcastabitch said…
“FTFOTB said, You don’t see that today. The very top horses are lucky to make 10 starts in their lifetimes.”
I don’t know…I hung around a harness racing track, and grandpa used to run a breeding/training operation, and those horses were/are making 200 starts before retiring to the breeding shed (of course they are breeding
)
I don’t know about harness racing, but show me a top graded SW TB that has made 200 starts in the last decade or two. I don’t know of any. Lower level horses, claimers, some allowance horses, etc…maybe.
When I was at school I halter trained a TB colt as part of a breeding project, he was so club footed he was 3 legged lame for months by the time he was a yearling and they put him down shortly thereafter. At least they only bred a handful of old lame mares, maybe one would sell for over $5k at Barretts and the rest of the group would get passed through cause they were crap. This to teach the next generation all about horse racing & breeding 101
Met the folks who owned Silver Charm and a number of other higher up breeders at a fru fru dinner, been to some nice farms, and it is not my cup of tea. I do however think that TBs have a lot of heart and I’ve restarted some OTTBs that tried harder to please than any other horses I’ve met, despite all the crap they’ve been through.
I think one of the more profound experiences I’ve had regarding racehorses was walking into the necropsy room at a university where there were three beautiful young thoroughbreds hanging from the ceiling chains around their hind legs. They had died while in training that morning and were awaiting necropsy results so the owners could cash in on their insurance policies. I’m sure it is a rare day when there isn’t a new horse or three hanging up in the necropsy room. These wouldn’t be the obvious breakdowns but the youngsters who couldn’t handle it and dropped dead for unknown reasons.
4Horses&Holding said…
It makes me wonder if geography has anything to do with the hoof quality in the TB’s vs. QH’s. I grew up around horses in south Florida, and am currently still in the SE US. In my horse experience it’s always been ‘understood’ that the TB hoof was not as good, and the QH was much better (not saying they are the best, but better than TB’s). Maybe it could stem from the breeding stock available in whichever part of the country we are in.
I think you are absolutely right. I’m in Eastern Canada- we don’t have OTTBs, unless they are brought in from elsewhere. (Our tracks- the few that are left- are harness.) The ones that do arrive are usually not right off the track. The TBs that are bred here are sporthorse-bred. Interestingly, though, the OTSBs, even fresh from the track, usually have excellent feet, albeit with weird trims.
I can’t say why the QHs have poor feet- over the years I’ve boarded a fair number, from quite diverse lines. Some, of course, had excellent feet, but the worst ones I’ve seen were almost all QHs (except for a draftX- his were appalling)
“Hairybeasties” who also said that the QH were worse has worked in the UK.
I think someone said something on another post about the quality of the TB’s in the UK – that they are hardier, tougher, more substantial horses.
Something to think about, anyway.
sarcastabitch said…
“FTFOTB said, You don’t see that today. The very top horses are lucky to make 10 starts in their lifetimes.”
I don’t know…I hung around a harness racing track, and grandpa used to run a breeding/training operation, and those horses were/are making 200 starts before retiring to the breeding shed (of course they are breeding
)
I worked at harness tracks for several years. Although there were certainly too many race-related injuries, there weren’t nearly as many as there seem to be in TB racing. A SB is allowed to race until the age of 14, and some actually did (usually geldings) The nature of the injuries was different, as well. Bucked shins and bowed tendons were common. Sesamoids and osselets happened, but less often. Catastrophic injuries, such as cannon bones shattering, were extremely rare.
At what age do they start the SB’s in race training?
They don’t carry weight at a young age, though, even if they do start them young.
Kind of off the racehorse topic, but on the auction topic… I was at the National Reining Futurity this past weekend, and at the auction, the average sell price was $30,000. The top five averaged $125,000. Most of them were young horses, but they all looked very nice. They were all well-fed and groomed, and obviously had been kept under lights. They were also almost without exception friendly.
They are still started as long yearlings, but, as you say, they carry no weight (a bike is incredibly light) I don’t think their legs take as much of a beating, (they simply aren’t going as fast) and since at a trot or a pace, they have 2 feet on the ground, there may be less concussion.
I think the declining attendance has less to do with horses breaking down and more to do with history making events. Horses have been breaking down for centuries, but how many times does a super horse come along? When Smarty Jones won the first leg of the triple crown people thought that was nice, then he won the second leg people took notice because this horse could actually re-write the history books and take out the third leg as well. How many people that normally sit at home and watch racing, went on the day of the third leg just to be there in case Smarty Jones took out the Triple Crown ? The same thing happened in Australia with Makybe Diva, no horse has ever won the Melbourne Cup three times and people got off their butts and went down to be there on the day because history could be made, and it was. Yes, Barbaro was a champion but did people stop buying music when ELVIS died? another hero will come along to replace the last and people will get off their butts and go down to the track and cheer. It just takes big events to get the attendance up. Life will go on..
I worked in the Oz racing industry for 4 years (15 years ago) strapping for some very successful city trainers (strapped a Vic Derby winner and various other Group 1 race winners). (Hairybeasties – where are you working)
I definitely agree with Hairybeasties re the different conditioning and keeping of racehorses in Oz being a contributing factor in having fewer soundness issues than racehorses in the US.
Mares and foals generally spend 24/7 in the paddock. Racehorses, if majorly unsound, get turned out (minor unsoundnesses are still covered up with ‘management’ or non-swabable substances eg clove oil on cottonwool packed into the soles of the feet to numb them for early navicular) and most are spelled in the paddock fairly frequently. When in work they generally ARE stabled though and only brought out to work and don’t get as long to warm up as racehorses in the UK so I’m sure we are inbetween the US and the UK in the amount of horses breaking down. Proof is that one of the (if not the) most successful trainers in Oz (Hayes) trains his horses very much in the English fashion (has a huge property and his own tracks and trains from there rather than being based at a city track like most other big trainers).
I also agree that it’s VERY often the way TBs are handled that determines how ‘sweet’ they are. I do feel though that temperament can be bred for (or against) and as FTFOTB says racehorses are ONLY bred for speed. I feel there is also a difference between a ‘quiet’ temperament (easy going, not spooky etc) and a ‘trainable’ temperament (you ask something and they say “Sure – I’ll try!” rather than “No way!”). I think ‘quiet’ horses can still have ‘untrainable’ temperaments. And the reverse can also be true. There are horses who are nutters and terrible to handle but you ask them to run and they say “Sure!” I think often even though racehorse breeders don’t purposefully breed for ‘trainable’ temperaments they pretty much do by default. If the parents DON’T have ‘trainable’ temperaments they usually aren’t very successful on the track and therefore don’t breed on. Of course you are then often breeding nutty difficult to handle stallions to nutty difficult to handle mares – no surprise then that the offspring is the same!!
TBs are also NOT bred for conformation so I also agree with FTFOTB on this point – that a lot of the unsoundness in TBs is due to bad conformation. One of the horses in one of the racing stables I worked at was a very ‘flashy’ huge bright bay stallion with a blaze and 4 white socks ‘Delingat’. Besides not being in proportion (huge head and neck and long back) he had the WORST legs I have ever seen and when he galloped his front legs went everywhere!!! But he sure was ‘flashy’. He was very wellbred and the trainer had high hopes for him. The trainers daughter thought he was IT AND A BIT and no one else but her was allowed to strap him (no one wanted to anyway as he was a stupid nasty bugger). Everyone at the track and at the races always said “Wow – isn’t beautiful!”. NO HE WASN’T I thought he was AWFUL. Well no surprises – he didn’t do much on the track…but was still retired to stud!!!
Fantasia: didn’t say racehorses don’t break down here. Just that less do than in the US.
Also don’t agree with breaking as yearlings and racing as 2yos (think this is contributing factor in horses breaking down).
However thought I should mention that I read somewhere recently that the idea that different horse breeds mature at different rates is actually a myth. Apparently there has been research to show that all breeds mature at the same rate as far as their bone structure goes. So the myth about TBs maturing earlier than other breeds is apparently wrong. (I have to say ‘apparently’ as I can’t remember where I read this. Has anyone else heard about this research?). If true – even more reason not to be racing them at 2!!
On the topic of starting yearlings, there was a black colt at the sale yesterday that was born April 24th 2006 and as of December 2nd 2007 he had already been in 75 days of training!!! OMG that blew me away.
Horses just don’t have the skeletal maturity to be racing at the age they do, and combined with the complete disregard for good hoof quality in breeding choices – makes for the TB industry and breakdowns we have today. There have always been breakdowns, but the longer the breeding choices exclude quality of hoof and overall ability to stay sound, the worse it will get.
I worked at a TB farm in PA for awhile, and then took in off track horses for awhile. It’s like fighting windmills though – and I moved on.
Back when the TB started in England, they weren’t raced until they were much older, and made to go longer distances – I think this is probably a better guage of a horse than a short sprint. I would support racing if they waited until the horse was more mature – say 4 or 5. I think we’d see far fewer breakdowns, as well.
The-Farmers-Wife
Very interesting article. I found it really interesting that many points made in that article are addressed on this blog.
Also, who here knew that Equine.com has a “Free Horse” section in their sale listings? There are currently 515 horses listed. Wow.
Alison said: “I feel like the racing industry isn’t any different from any other equine industry. It’s just that it’s the BIGGEST equine industry, making the stats look inflated.”
IS the racehorse industry the biggest industry in the US?.
In Australia even though the racehorse people and the government (if the percentage of aid dollars due to the EI crisis given to racehorse people compared to ‘pleasure’ horse people is anything to go by) THINK they are the biggest (only?) horse industry here they are actually only 20% of it.
Liri said…
Kind of off the racehorse topic, but on the auction topic… I was at the National Reining Futurity this past weekend, and at the auction, the average sell price was $30,000. The top five averaged $125,000. Most of them were young horses, but they all looked very nice. They were all well-fed and groomed, and obviously had been kept under lights. They were also almost without exception friendly.
That’s neat.
But you can’t even compare prices at these two sales. One is a national event and the other is a minor regional TB sale. If you want to compare reining horses to racehorses as far as prices realized, then compare the National Reining Futurity sale to a sale at Keeneland. That would be a more fair comparison. 
I worked for a small-time trainer for several years as a teenager, and have followed racing closely for over 10 years. I rarely will watch racing live now, and prefer to watch a race only after I know that there hasn’t been a catastrophic breakdown. I can’t stomach seeing those anymore. I think there are many reasons why TB’s have so many problems-
1) Breeding for fashion rather than function. There are those that breed for the sales, and those that breed to race. The race breeders are going to put a lot more thought and time into what will actually make a good racehorse. The sales breeders want the best looking pedigree on a horse they can get, and are only looking for a good return on their investment.
2) Breeding for precociousness. Many people want a quick return on their investment- forget waiting around for 2 or 3 years on a late-developer. The sales breeders know this, and will breed the speediest, earliest-developing babies possible. The horses either burn out early mentally or physically, or end up being uncompetitive as 3 or 4 year-olds once the late-developers catch up physically. It seems like a lot of the bloodlines that feature precociousness also bring unsoundness as well. The sounder, late-developing bloodlines aren’t considered fashionable and aren’t being utilized as much in breedings because they don’t bring in the same money at the auctions.
3) Year-round racing. The horses don’t get any time off to be let down and recuperate from any nagging injuries or body-soreness. Some of the most successful older horses get a break each winter, and they’re still going strong at 7,8,9,10.
4) Toe grabs and poor shoeing. The toe grabs cause a lot of breakdowns in the turf races. The myth of long toes/short heels is still very much believed at most tracks. The only thing that idea seems to lead to are bowed tendons and suspensory/ligament injuries. Whenever I go to the backstretch at Hollywood Park or Santa Anita, I see a handful of horses actually shod properly, usually all in the barns of one or two trainers.
5) Breeding unsoundness generation after generation. Horse breaks down at the track because of conformation? Send them to the breeding shed to continue making a buck, especially if they are well bred. There is so much more money to be made in the breeding shed for a stallion that there is no incentive for an owner to keep a stakes-winning horse in racing past 3- and no chance for a horse to prove he has the soundness to keep competing at the top levels as an older horse.
6) Drugs. There are steroids and other drugs being used in the yearling sales, and its alarming how so many of the babies don’t even look like yearlings because they’re inordinately large and over-muscled. Not such a good idea for proper development of their bodies. Then all of the drugs being used at US tracks, legal and illegal, both as a competitive advantage and to mask “minor” injuries.
As for track surfaces and rate of injury…..I think there are so many factors involved its impossible to pick out just one. More fragile horses, too many drugs hiding unsoundness, improper track maintenance, toe grabs, bad trainers…..take your pick.
As in any sport, there are fantastic trainers that care very deeply for every one of their horses, and others that are only in it for the money and the horses are nothing more than a business commodity. The latter are the ones that give the sport a bad name.
4 horses, thanks for that video!
I do appreciate that because I learned to ride in a cutting barn and can never stay away long. Most good cutters would get after the cows in that same set up. My yearling (who will never be a cutter because we fear he will be far too tall) would chase after the angus he was in the paddock with last year. He would drive them NUTS. They thought he was raving mad, of course because these were REAL cows. The bull would ignore him and just stand there.
He just has instinct. Lots of cutting horses love what they are doing. And no, starting them on cows at two isn’t what my barn does. They get to be horses. An unhappy cutter doesn’t perform.
I think causes of breakdowns is riding baby horses before they’re fully developed. I also think it’s when non-horsey people own racehorses, and push trainers to get results and don’t understand horses aren’t machines, and when trainers give in to these demands for one reason or another.
It’s when trainers push horses – when they’re too young, when they don’t have the heart to race, when they’re recovering from illness. For greed, for nescessity, for whatever reasons.
This happens in all horse sports but top racing is the biggest bucks, it’s more spectator and has a larger non-horsey crowd. Face it, non-horsey people can understand “first horse across the lines win” but they’re not really going to get the difference between passage, piaffe and piroutte! =P
Australia is suffereing at the moment from the equine influenza outbreak. I have read multiple articles crying out against the racing industry which has started up again in one of the affected states (and has forged ahead unabated in other states when all other horse shows have ground to a halt).
Different sources believe that the horses are being brought back into work from illness far to early and that there will be a whole generation of TBs ruined. The article was aimed at the english discipline people who might pick up OTT TBs, and it warned people to be very careful in the future because of continuing problems. And that horses had already died due to lung and heart damage that wasn’t given time to heal after suffering the virus.
I believe a huge amount of pressue is put on because the racing industry has such a small window of opportunity. You always hear that a dressage, showjumper or eventer is in their prime at age 10+. Most racehorses are either washed up, or finished and retired to stud etc closer to the age of 6.
There is prizemoney in races aimed at the baby horses – 2 and 3 yos.
Trainers are trying to take a baby, break it in and get it ready to WIN in a couple of years time – as opposed to an eventer who’ll take years to prepare their horse to WIN.
Anyone who’s worked with young horses knows that like kids, they have shorter attention spans.
It’s cramming a lot mentally as well as asking a lot physically of babies. No wonder there are problems!
I think that taking the prizemoney out of the baby races and making, say, 6yo races with top prize money would make a difference. Breeders and trainers would have to aim for sustainable, for horses that are fit and strong and sound at that age as opposed to just finishing their careers. It would give the horses time to grow more before they are being ridden.
My Dad has shares in racehorses. His current horse has been the best yet. He started out under trainer #1 and did a tendon. Was given months of rest, then went to trainer #2 and won the local Racehorse of the Year for winning I believe 4/6 hometown races (and running close the other couple).
I picked a 4yo off the track 3 years ago. Apart from being abused by the trainer that currently had him, he’d been a good-for-nothing racer before then as well (although his breeder/first trainer was horrified to hear he’d been abused – he used to let his kids ride him around bareback). He was gangling, hadn’t finished growing, had the attention span of a gnat and memory of a goldfish.
A couple of years later he’d muscled up, filled out, grow almost a hand – and then I had to fend off my father who was eyeing him off and making suggestive comments about him looking primed to race! 0_0 Hand’s off my eventer Dad!
But that was a case, if the trainers had just given him a bit more time, he probably would have been a much better racehorse – he just wasn’t ready to do any work before then, physically or mentally.
Just caught the tail end of the news and saw a horse trailer accident.Somewhere in the Oregon/Washington area.Not sure if it was a double decker or not, but it was large enough to hold alot of horses.Anyone have any info on this.
Something I’ve noticed about thoroughbred breeding: it’s become the ‘go to’ defense for fug breeders of other breeds, ESPECIALLY quarter horse breeders.
People seem to think that, since the TB industry produces a lot of horses, it’s OKAY to breed their crap. It’s like ‘Well, I’m not HALF AS BAD as THOSE people’… c’mon. That’s not even MORON logic.
cammie said, “1) Breeding for fashion rather than function. There are those that breed for the sales, and those that breed to race. The race breeders are going to put a lot more thought and time into what will actually make a good racehorse. The sales breeders want the best looking pedigree on a horse they can get, and are only looking for a good return on their investment.
2) Breeding for precociousness. Many people want a quick return on their investment- forget waiting around for 2 or 3 years on a late-developer. The sales breeders know this, and will breed the speediest, earliest-developing babies possible. The horses either burn out early mentally or physically, or end up being uncompetitive as 3 or 4 year-olds once the late-developers catch up physically. It seems like a lot of the bloodlines that feature precociousness also bring unsoundness as well. The sounder, late-developing bloodlines aren’t considered fashionable and aren’t being utilized as much in breedings because they don’t bring in the same money at the auctions.”
You are exactly correct, especially on these two points.
I just wanted to make a note on the dressing up for auction bit. I’ve had to sell a few horses at auction before. Not my decision, nothing I could do to stop it from happening, but I did do the best I could. Those horses got ridden every day from the time i found out about it to the day before the auction. That day they got the grooming of their lives, and looked very nice. One of these horses was an impressive bred gelding, and had the muscle to prove it, despite not being good for much of anything else. He looked nice enough that he went to some cowboy. Only one out of four horses ended up going on a truck, and there was not much to be done to help him.
“If I had a dollar for every OTTB owner who gloated “his grandsire was Seattle Slew!” or “she goes back to Secretariat!”, I’d be a millionaire. I shake my head because neither of those studs produced a whole heck of a lot worth merit.”
Aww I think its gloating over owning a piece of *history*, it gives your beloved horse another layer of coolness. My OTTB has a lot of big names in her family but I’m just happy I bought this awesome (to me) sh!tty racer for 5% of the price it cost for her daddys sperm to make her
For me the worst breakdown to watch was Pine Island.. my husband and I were watching the race and as she was led out to the gate I told my husband I LOVED her goofy giraffe-like appearance, what a cute horse.
Then she broke down and I was devastated. I occasionally watch races because I *LOVE* Thoroughbreds but I always watch through my fingers with one eye closed.
George Washington made me physically ill.. for the fact that his low sperm count or whatever breeding issue brought him back out of a deserved retirement and thats what happened to him. He should have lived out his life, he earned it.
I’m actually curious to know if he was a kick ass turbo-sperm breeding horse, would heroic (Barbaro) measures been done to try and save him.
There was a lady near us when I was a kid and she owned and ran a small string of some damn good steeplechasers (As in consistently in the Grand National good). True there weren’t the typical track horses that you’d fine here but they were very happy horses with pretty turnouts that were so green they looked spray painted. They got a racing break for 4-6 months every year and went foxhunting and on long hacks to keep them conditioned. She rescued a line bred daughter of Northern Dancer/Native Dancer from a scrap yard (some idiot tied her to a junked car) and talk about little lost angel. That mare was never happier than when she was cleaned up, braided, rugged, and clipped.
Maybe its just me, but has anyone else ever noticed that TB’s with a lot of English blood in them seem to have a lot more bone and bigger hooves? I’ve not heard about as many problems with them either but that could just be the fact that there are fewer racers than in the States.
Crazychickmia said:
“I think that taking the prizemoney out of the baby races and making, say, 6yo races with top prize money would make a difference. Breeders and trainers would have to aim for sustainable, for horses that are fit and strong and sound at that age as opposed to just finishing their careers.”
EXACTLY what I was going to say! That is the only way to reverse the trend toward more & more early maturing, speed-bred horses. I would LOVE to see some rich benefactor who truly loved TBs and racing set up a $1 million purse race for 5 or 6 years olds. Amazing how quick things would change!
Because in contrast we have very few auction type sales. Well at least I think we do. Where I live in Adelaide, South Australia
Thanks for that Taldara. I’m a South Aussie too and had similar thoughts to you – that I’d never seen an auction (outside of racing) advertised, wondered if there were any, where they were held if there were any.
I asked mum and she said there used to be a sale she knew of on the outskirts of Adelaide, but the city expanded and when the stockyards were disbanded there, the stock sales started up elsewhere but the horses didn’t go to that sale.
She didn’t know anything about where there might be a sale held now. One thing she noted, was that the Mounted Police always sold their horses through that sale – and now they always sell their horses through tender.
Do you have any idea how many years ago you went to this sale? Would be interesting to know if it’s the same one.
On the “easy sell” option, I also think it’s a lot cheaper to euthanaise and dispose of a horse, well still depending on where you are. I’ve read quotes $500-$700, while we were able to get a vet to euthanaise and bury a 16.1hh mare for well under $200.
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On the conditioning. I don’t have a special program or equipment to take my horses resting heartbeat. Although I’m only competing low-level sports, I do everything I can to condition my horses.
They come in from out paddock and start off slow. I’ll work them to a heavy breath at trot, then we’ll walk. We do this and every day they can work longer at the trot. Canter as well but a lot of trot. Building up muscle and fitness slowly. I end up going for 45-60 minute rides, where the majority of that is work (with walks to warm up and cool down).
My boys can do a 6-7 minute cross country course under optimum time and barely have a sweat up or be breathing hard. I’ve even had people ask when I was due to go out and compete as I’m walking back to my float from the finish line – alongside horses that are gasping for breath and lathered in sweat.
Is it really that hard to use common sense? At my level, my method is more than enough to keep my horses fit. At the upper levels, there is equipment and programs and all sorts of things you can use and follow to measure every breath and heartbeat your horse takes to ensure their fitness.
What’s the excuse for NOT using them?
jumpermegs said, “If I had a dollar for every OTTB owner who gloated “his grandsire was Seattle Slew!” or “she goes back to Secretariat!”, I’d be a millionaire. I shake my head because neither of those studs produced a whole heck of a lot worth merit, ESPECIALLY when you get into the 3rd and 4th generations.”
Both of those stallions sired quite well, especially Secretariat, who became a leading broodmare sire. He was not a sire of sires, but Seattle Slew was. Seattle Slew sired among many others, A. P. Indy, who is certainly no slouch (and sire of this year’s Belmont winning filly, Rags To Riches).
Just thought I’d put in a good word for these two stallions. They were not failures as sires, as many have mistakenly said. They have their poor quality descendants like any other stallion.
Crunchberriesmom – My trainer has a big ship’s bell nailed to the gatepost of their 80 acre field, hit it with the clip from the leadline and every horse on the property will suddenly appear.
*** Just another note on the number of TBs breaking down
(gee I’m talkative today. Who slipped me happy pills while I wasn’t watching?)
That I just wanted to state again that I think it’s because racing is so broadcast.
There is nearly always something about racing in the news during season height. Even if it’s a 5 second screen flash with a “hot tip” for a race the next day.
There’s always pages in the paper, there’s entire channels dedicated to the sport – for the gamblers sure, but it’s still there.
So everyone hears a lot more about it, than when and eventer or showjumper or polo/polocrosse horse goes down.
And here’s my point…
I believe it was the polocrosse nationals, were they held last year or the year before? Fuzzy memory. My apologies if any Aussie knows it was polo or an earlier year.
Our local pony club has stabling for travellers and I got to talk to some people travelling to, and then back from, the tournament.
On the travel home they were horrified because of the number of fatalities – fuzzy memory again, but I believe it was over 10 caused just in the field. 3 horses died due to colic because of the long travelling distance and not allowing time for them to rest before competing.
10-12 horses I think it was in a WEEK during a championships.
I remember thinking that if that many horses had died during the Melbourne Cup Carnival that there would have been hell to pay…but it wasn’t televised, the only people who knew about it where the ones actually there and interested in the sport, so it just slid on by.
So perhaps there are pros and cons to racing being such a spectator heavy sport. There is added pressure on horses to perform, but also an outcry if people see what they deem to be abuse.
In which case, education would be a wonderful thing. Educate the general public that racing 2 yos is being cruel to them and often a death sentence. Educate the public that if horses were raced when they were older, it would be just as exciting and better for them.
I do my bit. I’ll yak off the ear of anyone fool who mentions horses in my general vicinity =P
Crazychickmia:
The sales your mum talks about would definitely have been the same one – at Gepps Cross north of Adelaide. At least 15 years ago. I actually didn’t know that they didn’t have them anymore. I guess that’s because whenever I want to sell a horse I don’t ever consider that type of auction as an option so have never thought about them Don’t know anyone who would consider selling through this type of ‘come one come all’ auction either. Just not the done thing here. Unless it’s something specific like a performance horse sale, the NSW ASH sales, the Auction of the Stars or big stud reductions etc. But in all those types of sales each horse has to be approved before they can be entered for sale.
Sounds like you have the recipe right for conditioning – well done. As you say – it’s not rocket science (agree it is an art/science at higher levels though)!!
(Also good to see you read The Horse Magazine – always a guide for me as to what type of horseperson someone is. To be considered a SERIOUS horseperson in Oz you must read it. LOL)
pinkandwhitepony said…
Crunchberriesmom – My trainer has a big ship’s bell nailed to the gatepost of their 80 acre field, hit it with the clip from the leadline and every horse on the property will suddenly appear.
December 3, 2007 7:25 PM
LOL!!! thats GREAT! if i ever move to where i can’t holler to the back of the pasture i’ll have to get a bell!