It won’t take no ridin’ to get that hair off of him!
Nov 29 2007
My comments are in blue…and properly capitalized.
“LAST PRICE REDUCTON (or what? You give up and geld him? One can only hope.) EXCEPTIONALHORSE $2,000
HE HAS BEEN RIDDEN SEVERAL TIMES HE JUST NEEDS THE HAIR RODE OFF HIM” (Eh, if you want the hair off him, that shitty fence ought to do the job just fine. I can see a bunch of it hanging on there already!)
“HE IS VERY GOOD NATURED. FERIER HAS NO TROUBLE WITH HIM, (farrier farrier FARRIER, it’s not that fucking complicated, use a dictionary if you’re that confused!) TAKES BRIDLE, AND SADDLE VERY WELL WE HATE TO LET HIM GO BUT HE NEEDS SOMEONE TO TAKE HIM AND GIVE HIM A JOB HE WOULD BE HAPPIER BEING RIDDEN EVERY DAY (and living with someone who doesn’t have such shitty, dangerous fence. He’d really think that was awesome!) ANY QUESTIONS CALL anytime OR EMAIL US”
FHOTD in: This horse is a good example of the fact that you gotta have eyes, too, and not just look at a pedigree like you would a car. I mean, bloodlines-wise, this is a well bred horse. If all I saw was his pedigree, I might think “sure, that could be a breeding quality stallion.”
However, we have other information here – like the pics, which show that he’s back at the knee and has a fuuuugly neck. There are some very nice things about his conformation otherwise – he’s got a nice hip, a good shoulder, he’s deep through the heart, not downhill and well balanced. Despite being of halter horse breeding, he has good pasterns. He’ll make a very cute gelding and for the price ($2000), somebody ought to have had the brains to have gelded him already. Folks, there should never be a $2000 stallion. If it’s worth $2000, it’s not a stallion. Stallion quality weanlings are $5000+ in any breed. I’ve never seen a good adult stallion selling for less than $7500 minimum and usually more. If you can’t get that kind of money for them, that right there is pretty much a foolproof sign that what you have isn’t breeding quality and you ought to lop its balls off. 
But before you spend money on that…for the love of all that is holy, replace the goddamn fence. When I see babies behind barbed wire, and I think of all the godawful, disgusting, bloody, pussy, proud-flesh, permanent injuries I have seen on babies turned out on barbed wire, I want to fly to Missouri and chase you into the fence a few times so you can see how it feels.
Hot tape – $30 a roll. If you are too damn lazy/cheap to replace that fence, sell your horses and get cows which is what that fence was designed for. Then at least you can barbecue them when you can’t sell them despite your “last price reducton!”
336 comments to “It won’t take no ridin’ to get that hair off of him!”
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shovels said, “I don’t read it for the education…”
That much is obvious. Those you criticize at least are up front with who they are and what they have. Can’t say the same about you, though, can we?
“Sorry, guess I hit a sore spot, huh?”
Yeah, people who are trouble makers, who breed crap horses, and who don’t give a shit about anything other than themselves are sore spots with me. Go figure.
LOL on “On the subject of foundation – didn’t you refer to the nice breeding of a mare just a few comments prior, yet she’s foundation bred (not cow bred – learn the difference if you’d like to discuss it), so is she nice or a scrub foundation bred?”
“Learn the difference”? You’ve got to be kidding. The only difference between a mare like that and the foundation “crap” people breed is the foundation people wouldn’t want a mare like that. She’s too nice and doesn’t have enough Poco Bueno breeding. Since you’re not into education, you’re probably not qualified to discuss this in an intelligent manner. What you lack in knowledge you make up for in useless personal digs and attacks on others who are credible people.
Heatheraqha said, “I was hoping the WCHA would be the opposite of the AHHA, but so far it is looking like a mildly disguised copycat. Ugh.”
You are correct. It’s no different than the foundation people branching off of AQHA and starting their own organizations for their kind of horse. They aren’t able to compete within AQHA by AQHA’s rules.
I really want to see some input from the Halter and AQHA savvy people here (hence why FTFOTB comes to mind, although I know you are more of an APHA person but the industries are very similar) on whether they are doing things right or not, or if they even have a chance at making horses like BS Maximus-whatever-his-name-is and Kids Classic Style obsolete.
Although I breed Paints exclusively now, I have bred and have been involved with QHs and TBs all of my life. Those two breeds are of great concern to me, since they were (and still are) the foundation of the Paint horse.
Since many of these halter breeders are still breeding N/H to N/H, this tells me they have no desire to make those horses obsolete.
dontyoubreednofuglyhorses- thank you, I try to find the nicest built horses with a great working ethic as possible. You should see the pictures of last years weanlings WOW
ohforcryingoutloud- Yes there are people that advertise an unbroke horse as a ‘prospect’ though I have always wondered how people think their walker cross is a sport horse.
Nothing against walkers, heck I enjoy riding my clients walker when I feel like taking a relaxing ride.
On the subject of HYPP horses. All I can say is if it is not N/N GELD GELD GELD! and if it is a mare then DO NOT BREED HER!
I got attacked on another site for saying that a person should geld her ‘stud colt prospect’ that she was selling for $25-obo that the sire was HYPP N/P and the mare was HYPP P/P and the colt has not been tested. Yikes. we need to put an end to breeding, literally, genetic defects. Have these breeders ever seen a horse that is positive have an attack? it is scary.
HeatherAQHA said…
There is a new association called the World Conformation Horse Assoc. which, as I understand is, is a group of QH halter breeders trying to preserve the integrity of quality halter horse conformation. It almost sounds like a response to the recently discussed AHHA (Halter Horse Assoc, not Holsteiner Horse Assoc). I briefly looked through the site and didn’t see anything about HYPP, and they aren’t even intended to be QH specific, but hopefully it is a step in the right direction! I really want to see some input from the Halter and AQHA savvy people here (hence why FTFOTB comes to mind, although I know you are more of an APHA person but the industries are very similar) on whether they are doing things right or not, or if they even have a chance at making horses like BS Maximus-whatever-his-name-is and Kids Classic Style obsolete.
I’ve been watching this association. I like their philosophies and concepts. They want to put emphasis on correct conformation and address the industries issues. It will be interesting to see what they actually do.
I do see allot of industry leaders that also happen to have NH horses. Individuals that can’t be denied for knowledge and experience in the industry. Denny Hasset, JT Mitchlle, Ross Roark, Ted Turner all greats with in the industry. However there are a few that raise NN onlys as well, such as Greg Whalen and Dorn Parkinson (both top breeders of halter horses)and others.
I believe all are going to look at the issues with an open mind and clean slate. Time will tell, and I’m watching with tremendous hope.
The trend for years has been HYPP positive fitted to the highest weight possible. This not only has hurt the halter industry but made halter horses virtually uninsurable regardless of HYPP status due to the fitting philosophies. The biggest killer of halter horses these days is not HYPP related but weight related.
A new trend is beginning. There have been halter horses that don’t fit the norm. Less bulk, a little less mass, with an elegance air. Not every class will this type win, but more are winning. Horses like DeRenzo, this years AQHA World Champion Yearling Stallion who is sired by a TB and of a halter bred mare.
Things definitely need to change within the halter industry. I don’t know if the World Conformation Horse Association will be successful creating change or helping the halter industry remain stagnant. But from what I’ve read about them, they show promise. Unlike the Halter Horse Association that shows no promise of change.
Nat, why can’t they clean up their act and improve their stock within AQHA? Why the need for another organization? The only logical explanation is HYPP. AQHA will no longer register H/H horses.
I still think it’s the same deal as the foundation QH people. If they can’t play within the AQHA rules, or aren’t competitive within their parent association, that would be the only reason to branch off with something of their own. Specialization already exists within AQHA.
I wasn’t terribly thrilled with DeRenzo’s front leg conformation, but other than that, he’s got a lot of class, and I think it’s a bold and NECESSARY step towards a more useable halter horse, and a viable outcross for the horses that need it.
I’m sorry, but Kids Classic Style makes me want to barf. That’s not a horse, that’s a hippopotamus. I’ve seen the videos on the website… he can barely get out of his own way.
I always liked the stallion Statutory, but of course he doesn’t sire the N/H bulk that is still winning all over the damn place, so he’s not as popular as the hippos and refrigerators with tails like the aforementioned KCS.
I sincerely hope SOMEBODY takes a hard look at the halter horses and makes a change. But I don’t think it’s going to be the WCHA… they are the ‘who’s-who’ of the owners/breeders/handlers of what is out there that LOOKS like hippos. WHY ON EARTH would they start a registry supporting horses that were different from what they owned?
shovels said…
Isn’t that what this blog is for? Fugly says “sic em†and everyone starts slobbering? Though, we should never, ever, never, really never, say anything bad about close friends (and this makes this blog different from others how?).
Just happens I’m in the NW, know of Cathy and Shelly. If this blog had started a year or so ago, well, probably ya’ll would be snarking them. There will always be an excuse, though – I’ll take money on that.
This blog topic is long overdue, just seems everyone is a bit quick to “follow the leaderâ€. Maybe instead of being so quick to jump on the snark wagon, we should all take a look inside, then – let he who hath no sin cast the first stone?
Who to the what now? There have been many times that commenters disagree. There’s an interesting discussion going on in the diamonds in the rough post because someone spoke up with another opinion. There have been many times where I disagree and have posted my differing opinion.
The difference is that I don’t go on a retard rant when I do. I reason my position out, and others go from there. No one has been “banned” for disagreeing, just for being a complete idiot when they do. (has anyone ever actually been banned off of here? I know the only time anyone’s had their comments deleted was when some twat spammed some topic something fierce).
Nat, why can’t they clean up their act and improve their stock within AQHA? Why the need for another organization? The only logical explanation is HYPP. AQHA will no longer register H/H horses.
I don’t believe the WCHA is no different the NSBA or the NRHA. It is not a breed registry nor do they wish to register horses. It is an organization devoted to a specific event. As far as cleaning up their act, that is yet to be seen on how the organization addresses the issues in halter today. But I do have hope, time will only tell. At least they admit to problems within the industry whereas the Halter Horse Association burries their heads.
I still think it’s the same deal as the foundation QH people. If they can’t play within the AQHA rules, or aren’t competitive within their parent association, that would be the only reason to branch off with something of their own. Specialization already exists within AQHA.
The two are no where near the same. . .
The foundation QH associations do have a parent association – the AQHA.
The WCHA is open to all breeds and no parent association. Such as the NSBA, NRHA, and NCHA. There were a mixture of stock horse breeds represented at the first meeting with breeders and showmen/women of APHA, AQHA, and ApHC.
The foundation QHs can not compete succesfully in the upper level AQHA shows, and never at the world level.
The WCHA members ARE very successfull in upper level AQHA show – even at the World level. Same goes for the APHA & ApHC members.
Yes specialization is definatly here and halter is no different. They are just joining the ranks of speciality event associations.
Again, I don’t know how it is going to end up. But it does hold some promise and hope. Only time will tell.
Bravo.
My aptly named but transposed friend, Fugly enjoys the grammatical errors and mis-spellings as well as other literarly foibles of her targets. This was tongue in cheek, so I would suggest perhaps you understand the context in which things are written and proffered before snaking out to bite. But I am not the type to opine to those with whom I do not know nor have a connection. Enjoy your day.
Good job.
I’ll bite whichever pretentious, portentious fools I like.
There comes a point when literary humour becomes abstract to the point of idiocy. I present the novel “Infinite Jest” by David Foster Wallace as a prime example. You can FEEL the self-importance dripping off the pages, how the author can’t even STAND how WITTY he is.
Don’t get me wrong, I understood what the intent was there, as well as I do with your pedestrian attempts at wit…but it still pisses me off.
Oops. Ended with one of those little preposition thingies.
PS, English not my first language.
Taldara- NHR You are from Australia? want to send me a baby wallaby? lol.
tal:
“Wow this has gotten really long – sorry!!”
No way! Thank you! I’ve always wanted to rope a roo since world history in 4th grade or so (and I can’t rope to save my life). Your stock ponies are what I see as QH. Seems at one time they were suppose to be able to cross-register them. Found some campdrafting on youtube – it’s more like working cow horse here, which is even funner than cutting (my opinion).
You Aussies have managed to stay away from mangling breeds (like those goofy big lick things and halter horses – again, my opinion)? How do you do it?
Can you give a tutorial on saddles & fitting? I’ve tried one that was waaay to big, and one of those India cardboard things, but never a decent one. I don’t know if I could stay in one (or get out of one if I had to).
EI seems a really big deal there, why? My horses all get shot, but your link says it’s only for containment? What do you have to vaccinate for?
“”Learn the difference”? You’ve got to be kidding. The only difference between a mare like that and the foundation “crap” people breed is the foundation people wouldn’t want a mare like that. She’s too nice and doesn’t have enough Poco Bueno breeding. Since you’re not into education, you’re probably not qualified to discuss this in an intelligent manner. What you lack in knowledge you make up for in useless personal digs and attacks on others who are credible people.”
How about OUR lack of understanding? To me, the mare is foundation bred – and no, I wouldn’t want her. A nice ranch mare, when brought to the city would make a nice ammy pleasure horse. My horses, I suppose, are foundation (Doc Bar, Freckles, Peppy – foundation cow ponies). If you’re calling all cow bred horses crap, you think Rose, Plummer, Landers, Woods, etc are breeding crap? I don’t put getting 100K for a baby as breeding crap, my opinion. A good horse is a good horse. I buy/sell/breed/live/breath pedigrees, I want a specific type of horse and I know what lines will do it. Check out the stallion section of Buffalo ranch, they include equistats, makes my research much easier. Do you consider equistats as a valid determination of bloodlines? Where does your program stack up?
You don’t like cow ponies, that’s fine. I personnaly (my opinion) don’t see breeding Tobis, why breed crap? Now scream me down for saying it, but that’s my feeling. I don’t like QH halter horses, I don’t like ammy bred horses (as in so dumb they’ll carry an ammy at 3). I don’t like those TWH that look like their constipated. I don’t condemn anyone for having them, it’s my opinion. Which is what I meant to say at the start of this. I wasn’t “discrediting”, just showing that no one here is perfect, yet the attacks begin. The horse featured ain’t that bad (my opinion). Breeding quality? I don’t know what they’re breeding for, so I can’t condemn them for what I know not (I can put forth an opinion – but, like certain anatomical parts, we all got one and they’re known to stink).
If we should only breed what is the most marketable, then by my quick random sample of the random sampling of the readers here, it would be short, gaited, draft crosses (or pal Morgans). In that regard, if you’re not breeding Icelandics, you’re breeding fug fodder, right?
I’m so glad this WCHA thing got a little attention, thank you to everyone who chimed in.
Nat said…
I believe all are going to look at the issues with an open mind and clean slate. Time will tell, and I’m watching with tremendous hope.
Ditto- I sure hope they can put aside their previous “winning” strategies and collectively decide to make a change for the betterment of the breed and the individual horses. I did find a small blurb on the site regarding HYPP, and it is pretty vague as you might imagine.
Here is a quote from the site:
What is the WCHA’s position on issues like HYPP and the use of lip chains?
For now, the WCHA is focusing on steps that need to be taken to become recognized as a not for profit and in forming an association. It knows, however, that issues like you’ve mentioned will need to be addressed. Again, the WCHA is working to form a unified voice which will work pro-actively in developing positive consensus on issues such as those that first, keep the welfare of the horse in mind, and second, take into consideration fair management and competition practices.
What stands out to me is 1) categorizing HYPP and lip chains together (I just don’t even know how to respond to that… maybe they should throw in the heated debate about oak or floral patterned silver on the show halters, too?) and 2) the mention of the welfare of the horse cannot possibly be a pro-HYPP statement… right?
oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
I wasn’t terribly thrilled with DeRenzo’s front leg conformation…
Can you elaborate a bit, to help me (and others I’m sure) develop the “eye?” Here are the two best pictures I can find of him: Profile and Ad picture.
I don’t even know why this topic hits such a nerve with me… I don’t exactly care about the halter industry or have any vested personal interest in it. I guess it’s just the HYPP issue in general that gets under my skin, and I believe that the AQHA founding members would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what is currently being considered a champion Halter horse, considering you can’t lope it, ride it, use it, or even throw it a damn flake of alfalfa.
“Pony” is designated by BREED not size.
A purebred horse who only grows to 14 hh is still a HORSE. Simply an extremely small horse.
PONIES are different from horses.
Thank you.
I’m pretty sure that’s not true. When showing anything under 14.2hh it’s a pony, anything over is a horse.
Welsh Ponies (in Section D) have no height limit, they just have to be over 14.2hh. They are still CALLED Welsh Ponies, but they are classified as horses. The same goes for QH’s. Quarter Horses that are under 14.2hh are still CALLED Quarter Horses, but are actually ponies. If you go to a show on a 14hh QH – they will tell you that you are competing with all the other ponies under 14.2hh.
The size is what defines whether it is a pony or horse – the breed does not, although just because they are larger or smaller than the name of their breed indicates, doesn’t mean that they are named something different. So anything under 14.2hh is a pony anything over is a horse, regardless of what breed it is – that’s why people don’t like horses that are 14.3hh – it’s too big to show as a pony, but it would be competing against other 17hh giants in the show ring – most people see that as a disadvantage.
My horses, I suppose, are foundation (Doc Bar, Freckles, Peppy – foundation cow ponies). If you’re calling all cow bred horses crap, you think Rose, Plummer, Landers, Woods, etc are breeding crap?
Doc Bar, Colonel Freckles, Peppy San Badger…the lot of them, were good horses. The problem lies in the breeding of poor quality descendants of them, where everyone and their brother lays claim to that blood, even if it’s 5 generations removed.
I’ve talked with Mr. Plummer. At least he is thinking “outside the box” by using his well-bred TB stallion on his SLL mares, among others. That’s a breeder, IMO.
Carol Rose has some nice horses. At least her cowhorse-breds have good conformation, are pleasing to the eye, and can do something beyond what they’re bred for if they flunk out as reiners/cowhorses. She knows how to breed a good horse.
I criticize those who breed crap. And by “crap”, I mean horses who are poor to common quality cowhorses, with nothing special in the way of a pedigree up close, and are just like thousands of others out there who have a hard time bringing $100 at an auction. And they keep breeding them. Plummer and Rose don’t breed those kinds of horses.
I don’t dislike cowhorses unless they are poor quality ones; there aren’t many I’ve found that would contribute to the breed beyond creating more cowhorses. No one cares that they’re 14 hands and ugly. As long as they can work a cow.
Shelly’s mare might quality for a foundation registry, but she’s far from your typical “foundation” type QH that is being bred today (which is probably why she doesn’t appeal to you.) When I saw her pedigree, the bloodlines jumped out at me as being of pretty high quality…the type of breeding that consistently contributes to many disciplines in the breed. No, I didn’t check with Equistat. I didn’t need to.
Do you consider equistats as a valid determination of bloodlines?
Equistat (no s) is just that. They maintain statistics. I don’t breed by pedigree. Breeding/choosing by pedigree is not a guarantee of a quality horse, since I know of many horses with “top” pedigrees who are pure junk.
The horse featured ain’t that bad (my opinion). Breeding quality? I don’t know what they’re breeding for, so I can’t condemn them for what I know not…
Some people are easy to please and don’t have very high standards. In my opinion, those people shouldn’t be breeding horses.
I buy/sell/breed/live/breath pedigrees, I want a specific type of horse and I know what lines will do it. Check out the stallion section of Buffalo ranch, they include equistats, makes my research much easier. Do you consider equistats as a valid determination of bloodlines? Where does your program stack up?
I have lived and breathed pedigrees for 41 years now. I don’t need Equistat to tell me what to breed and what not to breed, nor do I need them for research to tell me what a quality horse is. Those statistics only help those who don’t want to put forth the time, effort and study on their own. I know pedigrees well enough to know a good one from a bad one.
As far as my program goes, there is a void in Tobianos, and my goal is to fill that void. I don’t breed crap, by anyone’s standards. You can strip my horses of their color patterns and stand them up next to any good QH, any day (and they’re all predominately QH-bred). I’ve listed the merits of my stallion’s pedigree several times here, so I’m not going to bore anyone with it again. You’re really not interested in that anyway.
A responsible breeder breeds for the improvement of the breed; it’s as simple as that. When a responsible breeder produces exceptional quality stock, there will be a market for that stock. Carol Rose is a perfect example. I remember when she and Matlock started breeding. They had exceptional stock, standing great horses such as Zan Parr Bar and Peppy San, among others.
I don’t like QH halter horses, either. As they are today. I do believe that a halter horse is supposed to represent the best conformation of a good performance horse. And most cowhorses today don’t even come close to qualifying for that. If you want to see what a performance horse is supposed to look like, take a look back in your breed magazines (if you have any), at the AAA-AQHA Champions.
shovels said, “I buy/sell/breed/live/breath pedigrees, I want a specific type of horse and I know what lines will do it.”
It’s not that hard if you rely on Equistat and don’t pay attention to phenotype. Just pick one on the list that has the most earnings and the stud fee you can afford. Can’t afford Peptoboonsmal or Smart Little Lena? There are probably a gazillion sons out there that one can get to, all bred exactly the same.
You keep citing the big name breeders of cowhorses, yet you don’t mention what YOU breed. Those aren’t your horses. Do YOU get $100k for YOUR horses?
And just how many more sons of Doc’s Hickory, out of daughters of Doc O’Lena, who are out of daughters of Peppy San Badger do we need? There are a gazillion of them out there, with bloodlines crossed back and forth on each other, creating more and more of the same amount of fugly. Nothing is improving. Not until breeders start using good outcross blood. Plummer has the right idea.
This subject has totally gone off to left field.
About the small QH thing. Yes, egads they are getting smaller and smaller. Like evolution is saying, “let’s have your body match your hooves for a change”
and FYI– From the POA site
“What is a POA?
The POA ranges in height from 46 to 56 inches at the withers.”
So what, that is 14HH?
A POA also has to have a specific coat pattern.
However, there is also this definition;
“For many forms of competition, the official definition of a pony is a member of equus caballus that measure less than 14.2 hands (hh) (1.47 meters or 58 inches) at the withers. Horses are 14.2 or taller.”
What gets me are these 6 foot reining trainers riding 14 hand “horses”. Of course they friggin stop when the rider can aide the process by sticking their own heels in the ground like Fred Flintstone.
anyway…..
future,
I guess I should be honored you approve of my breeding (in a very roundabout way)? I’m starting fresh. No, haven’t made 100K, got only one young un here now, and I’m still in a sell/no sell mood until I see what comes next year.
Only ones I’ve actually sold in the last few years were paints, got between 5 & 10K. When they went bust, accountant said out, I got rid of the stock, so now I just have QH. Yes, I do look at stats – I want a marketable foal in case I need to get rid of it, though I may chance a new stud and hope he becomes the next “gotta have”. I do get advice from those I feel are experts within my field. I’ve studied peds, top & bottom. I do the best I can with the tools I got.
I’ve never claimed expertise, so I really don’t know what you’re snarking for, but I guess I’ve hit a nerve, so for whatever I’ve done, I’m sorry.
We will never agree and life shall continue – I think the horse in your pic looks like an overstuffed halter horse that needs to be wrapped to keep clean. I don’t want a huge, stuffed halter horse, an ammy pleasure horse, a constipated TWH, a fluffy black plow horse, an 80s ayrab, a gypsy fairy horse. I’ll just keep my fugly lil cowponies. They can do all I want and look good doing it – and I can get on em w/o a ladder (and I can take them out, have fun, and get money for it).
Why do you say there’s a tobi void? There’s some nice ones out there, but I wouldn’t know about halter ones. Breeding for color is so iffy – give me a nice, plain bay anyday.
nyxin said, About the small QH thing. Yes, egads they are getting smaller and smaller. Like evolution is saying, “let’s have your body match your hooves for a change”
This is what happens when breeders continually linebreed to the same common ancestors without utilizing any outcross blood. They will get smaller and smaller with each generation. If you’re linebreeding to the little ones to begin with, “you’re gonna end up with ponies”.
shovels said, “Why do you say there’s a tobi void? There’s some nice ones out there, but I wouldn’t know about halter ones. Breeding for color is so iffy – give me a nice, plain bay anyday.”
Rather than explain it all here, you are welcome to read my blog. I explain it in detail there. There are only nice Tobianos out there if you’re not too difficult to please.
Breeding colored horses is no more “iffy” than breeding plain bays…you either have a quality horse or you don’t. I choose to do it with horses with a coat pattern. I am not breeding “for” color. I am breeding for quality horses. FYI, I’m not a halter horse person. I do require, however, that my performance-bred horses would hold their own in a conformation class as it is supposed to be judged. And no, I never have to keep my horses “wrapped”. I maintain a very clean facility at all times, groom and exercise the horses daily, and generally, take pretty good care of them. BTW, I have a 14.2h Tobiano mare I don’t need a ladder to get on, either. She’s one of the sorrel ones in my picture, with Poco Tivio, Poco Rey, Jess Hankins, etc. in her pedigree. Oh my. Cowhorses. So you see, I don’t have anything against cowhorses. Just ugly ones, bred by the thousands, by pedigree only that aren’t contributing anything positive to the breed; only to the pocketbooks of their owners and breeders.
Only ones I’ve actually sold in the last few years were paints, got between 5 & 10K. When they went bust, accountant said out, I got rid of the stock, so now I just have QH. Yes, I do look at stats – I want a marketable foal in case I need to get rid of it, though I may chance a new stud and hope he becomes the next “gotta have”. I do get advice from those I feel are experts within my field. I’ve studied peds, top & bottom. I do the best I can with the tools I got.
I’ve never claimed expertise, so I really don’t know what you’re snarking for, but I guess I’ve hit a nerve, so for whatever I’ve done, I’m sorry.
There are breeders who breed for the market and then there are breeders who breed for the improvement of the breed. I believe this is where we differ.
The only thing that went “bust” in Paints were the poor to common quality ones, when the supply outnumbered the demand. Exceptional quality is rare and always in demand, so no “bust” there.
Yes, I’m snarking back, responding to some of your remarks. No need to apologize. A debate is a debate, and it’s always educational for all if it’s kept on an intelligent level. Yes, I do claim expertise in my field, and I have plenty of credentials to back that up. I also have one of the largest and most complete research libraries in the country, and have done what I do all of my life. It is my passion. I have written quite a few books on these subjects, too. So yes, I do claim expertise in my field. And deservingly so. I don’t need Equistat to tell me that High Brow Cat is a leading cutting horse sire, or which mares cross best with him. I have subscribed to every publication and sale catalog for three breeds for over 40 years, plus accumulated all the older ones before that, and I have read every one of them. Many times. We created and market the finest pedigree software in the world. So, even though I breed Paints, I also keep well informed of the QH and TB industries.
When people write things that I see are in error, or are from ignorance (especially within my field of interest), I will call them out on it. For example, you haven’t seen me say one word about TWH (negative or positive), as I know absolutely nothing about them other than taking a spin on one once. So, no snarking from me on them. But on something I know a little bit about? Oh yes. And I’m usually pretty nice until someone gets snarky.
Quote by oh_for_crying_out_loud
Look at the Impressive/Skipper W cross… nice horses.
Must say I agree!
One of my current projects is one:
One
Two (tail flagging and needs a trim, but you get the idea)
Whistlin Dixie that is a BEAUTIFUL gelding!!!
Tanks on Teacups
I wanted to know why QH halter horses seemed to provoke hostility and debate.
Not knowing much about halter style QH’s I looked up Kids Classic Style. At 16.3 hands and 1800 lbs he has the height and weight of a draft without the large bone structure and hoof. He is HyPP N/H. I can’t believe people pay $3500 stud fees for this structural nightmare with the possibility of passing the HyPP gene. I only really found one pic/pose of him repeated over and over on many sites with a few changes in background that may have been photoshopped. I found this odd and slightly suspicious. Have they got some of the show weight off of him so he doesn’t drop dead of a heart attack or go lame? He is after all a stud fee gold mine judging by his web presence. I completely fail to see the allure of him or his many offspring that I viewed. Perhaps if they didn’t seem to be a few hundred pounds overweight I wouldn’t find them so weird looking.
I will now return to lurking and stop offending QH halter fans.
If you want to see something really appaling, watcht he video of Kids Classic Style on the owner’s website. BLECH!!
Thanks, Dontyou…
Must add she’s a mare, though! She is rather butch, eh? haha
OMG!
I didn’t scroll down far enough to see the video the first time I looked. That horse looks like the Biggest Loser contestants the first time they jog. Everything jiggles and they get really short of breath. It makes sense that the tobiano show stallion on fugly about a week ago had points in everything but halter. Anyone know what the life expectancy is on halter horses that fat?
OMG that video is disgusting. That poor creature can hardly trot he’s so damn fat. Ick.
He’s pretty lame in the front, too. Nice.
Anyways, this came to mind watching that horse
Sorry Whistlin Dixie, I guess I am not used to people taking nice mares and actually using them, so I wrongly assumed becaue you were actually doing something with the horse other than breeding, it was a gelding. My bad! She is even cuter as a mare. LOL!
No worries! I’ll just be sure to shelter her from that comment so she doesn’t get a complex
hehe
Yeah, I’ve been showing her at our large local open show circuit for the past couple of years. Her owner wants her trained as a WP horse, but she doesn’t really dig that. She usually kicks tail in her halter class, but I’m quite sure she’d rather be doing something more exciting under saddle…like reining. She’s a sweet mare with a to-die-for jog…she just gets a little hot at the lope. I stuck to halter with her this past season (showed a pal APHA gelding in the perf classes), but I still ride her every other day or so.
Her owners (Skipper W breeders – been in the biz 40+ years) may breed her next year to this guy. She’ll be 7 and it would be her first breeding.
That’s funny you say the mare has a to-die-for jog and gets hot at the lope. My 4 y/o mare is also Skipper W bred and is the same way. She’ll jog all day long but she always kicks her back heels out when going into a lope. If you ride it out, she’ll stop it. She never goes into a full blown buck but she kicks her heels out, weird. If someone wants to use her for WP she’ll definitely need some work on that. LOL
You all are the worst people I have ever met! You pass judgment without a second thought,and contradict yourself. Who are you to judge everyone else’s horses? Is it not true that even “quality” studs and mares can produce “subquality” offspring? Are your horses perfect? Let’s see those show reports!Did it ever occur to you that there are people out in this world that love horses just for the fact that they are horses, not that they are “quality” horses. Maybe you should do a little more research and see how many “fugly” horses have gone on to do great things and produce “quality” horses! In the mean time get off your high horse(no pun intended) and realize that you are not the gods and goddesses of horses!
Ummm…you missed the point. Many here have fugly but wonderful horses. The point is don’t breed them. There is no market left for low quality horses and sadly many go to kill buyers. I kind of like the thick necked horse featured in this blog. He has good looking legs,chest and shoulder. With a neck like that though he should not be a stallion. Geld and enjoy.
llionvdesaalyl82 – you haven’t actually met us, so I don’t know why you get to judge US as the worst people you’ve ever met.
You should really take this place with a grain of salt (a lot of sarcasm flies around here), but also a serious thought to the fact that limiting the breeding of low-quality horses limits the number that will (like the poster above me said) end up in bad situations and/or going to slaughter.
was browsing websites and came across this page.. they do have nice looking babies, but read the text at the very top of the page.
i’ve never supported barbed wire, especially around babies. shame on them. sure the babies on the page are cute, but how many aren’t pictured because of their injuries? sad sad sad.
http://www.pairadeisquarterhorses.com/wst_page7.html