LOL! When fugly grulla breeders attack!
Nov 14 2007
Someone alerted me to the fact that the breeder of the grulla yak featured here one day is on the attack on message boards. I simply HAVE to republish her comments about me and respond to them. They are beyond priceless. My comments are in blue, as usual!
“This american dont like Grullas thats her opinon there lots of people out there that likes Grullas and Duns,im very partial to Duns and grullas.yea you always try to breed the best to the best and get better but i havent seen a lynch mob like this.”
Honey, if you go back to my original post, you will see a grulla that I love and a grulla that I think is pretty good. As a matter of fact, I’ve always wanted to own a grulla and may buy one someday. However, it will not look anything like your conformationally flawed yak.
“and what gets me is that this american has never seen these horses or met the owners and she attacks them.”
You put the picture on the Internet so of course I’ve seen it. How would meeting you have anything to do with my opinion on whether or not your horse is fugly? Do you think that if only I met you in real life, I would somehow see the light and start thinking your yak is good looking and it should have, like, ten more babies and populate the earth with Quarter Horse-Fjord-Arab-Standardbred crosses?
“theres lots of grades out there that are of mixed blood,there warmbloods that have 2-4 kinds of breeds in them and they sell for the price of your house.”
Warmbloods that sell for the price of a house do not look anything like your fugly yak.
Also, they are good at something…typically at the A show level. What, pray tell, is your yak good at?
Warmbloods also have approvals. How far do you think your yak would get toward a breeding career if she had to prove her athleticism and conformation first? I’m thinking not too far.
“and so does the draft x that do have 2-3 kinds of breeds in them.”
Lots of them are pieces of shit too. I’ve featured them many times!
“but what pisses me off about this american she takes a picture and makes up a story about that picture she has no clue”
What story did I make up about the picture? I quoted your ad. You wrote it, not me. We know that you wrote it, because I know how to spell “afraid.”
“i have seen pics of her horses and they dont look like a million bucks.”
No, they don’t. I have frequently noted that my personal horses are mostly fuglies because I rescue. I do have one cute, correct mare. She’s produced 3 AQHA point earners, one an AQHYA Champion. And even she doesn’t have to breed anymore because she’s old and retired now. Has anything you own ever produced a point earner in anything?
“even proffional breeders has a few grades.”
OK, “proffional” breeders reading this. Do YOU have a few grades? Are they something that just happen to the best of us, like zits?
“She should work for President Bush…….”
As soon as he starts a Commission To Combat Crappy Horse Breeding, I will be honored to serve as its leader! Sadly, that would not stop you from breeding your yak as you’re in Canada.
Again, these people don’t need me to make them look bad…they do a GREAT job on their own!
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play nice kids – WTF??? First, you must not have read all of the entries on this blog, nor its FAQs. This “site” was not “placed” here to teach people about conformation, although FHOTD does a great job of that as a side job.
Second, it’s spelled “stolen”, not “stollen”.
Third, as a breeder of Paints, I can tell you that you have your facts skewed. There is NO “association” rulebook stating that Solid Paint Breds are of no value. And they have been shown for years.
Fourth, homozygous Tobiano Paints (and any black and white Paints) were “on the rise” years ago, and eventually declined as soon as all the idiots bred the crap out of them and flooded the market with mediocrity.
play nice kids said…
I have to laugh, you all are tearing a part a photo that was firstly taken in the winter, secondly the angle is not the best either. Yes he does have a shorter neck, but he has a short back therefore looks proportioned. The only other thing I can see wrong with him is he has a bit of a roman nose…. he is overweight in the photos. Also the photos used on this site were stollen, they did not have conscent from the photographer to use these photos. As I am sure is with most of the photos on this site. If someone wants to create a blog and for the most part I do agree with what is said here, however I do not agree on attacking someone, and I don’t believe in using stolen photos! The site in my opinion was placed here to teach people about conformation and such, not to sit here and riducle and attack people. If someone has a photo on their site or posted it elsewhere you still have to obtain their permission you can not just right click it and steal it…
I don’t believe in breeding grades at all, you may or may not know their lineage and it could also be lineage someone made up. There are some very nice looking grades out there, don’t get me wrong, but I would not own one no matter how nice it looked conformationaly. I don’t believe in the half registeries either I think they are a joke. I mean your horse is either a purebred or not, none of this half nonsense. Now can we get back to the topic of conformation? As for breeding like crazy for grullo/a I agree, it is hard to find a nicely built grullo/a with a pedigree to back it up. Also homozygous tobiano’s are on the rise and face the same problem; however their problem is association raised in my opinion, as they have it documented in their rule book that solid Paint’s are worth nothing, they are just now allowing them to be shown, and not at a level playing field either. As for grullo/a’s that is market pushed as everyone and their dog wants one… unfortunitly money has blinded the breeders.
November 16, 2007 9:51 AM
I’m confused.
I didn’t see a lot of ‘tearing apart’ of that mare on a physical basis, though the UPDATED PICTURES FROM HER NEW OWNER would be the ones we were critiqueing, not the original picture.
What I SAW was people upset that they had BRED this mare, despite the fact that she is of the strangest mix imaginable AND shows poor conformation.
And I posted about the ‘it’s not fair, that’s stealing’ idea on another thread. It’s called ‘fair use’ look it up. Piercelaw.com has a great little ditty on it.
Homozygous tobianos, double dilutes (perlinos, cremellos) and high percentage colored foundation bred stock horses all face the same issues.
They are GIMMICKS most commonly used to market horses of low-quality that people have bred because they knew they would sell.
“I don’t believe in the half registeries either I think they are a joke”
That is too bad. I have had great half Arabians that I wouldn’t trade any purebred. Yes they were all registered with AHA and yes I did show them.
As a breeder of paints forthebetterofthebreed you must be blinded.
I am sure you are well aware that yes it does state that they are “breeding stock” only, and yes they are starting to allow them to be shown more, but not like the “regular” registered paints.
There is a yahoo message board for solid paint owners you should join and listen to what they have to say.
Sorry my English skills do not meet your satisfaction. I guess you have to find something to attack me about don’t you.
As I have stated before I have read several of the posts here, and for the most part I do agree with them. However to out and out attack someone like a bunch of hungry wolves that have not eaten weeks… I am not sure how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot….
It is fine and dandy to be opinionated, but WOW!
I don’t know your url to your website or even if you have one, but I would venture to bet if you have a fugly horse the pictures are not posted, why because most people don’t or try not to post those photos. Some people that for example only have a handful of horses do not see anything wrong with it…
I know you all have hearts and you are not as mean and calis as you are putting yourselves out to be on here.
I was referring to the stallion of Deneze’s. Not the mare.
I agree with your post, a ton of different “colored” horses are bred because people feel they will sell…
I also must say the person that purchased the mare also breeds grades so she is no better then the previous owner, sorry you can not bad mouth someone and do the exact same thing just so people don’t jump on you….
When a person takes a photo from another site that is copyright, as most sites will state right on them that all photos/images are C then the farm or ranch name. Therefore using them is illegal. I know one of the photos on the site was one I had taken, I was not asked by anyone if they could use this photo. I did give it to the person who purchased the horse and they too never gave permission….
As far as the post from forthefutureofthebreed she stated that it does not state solid bred horses are worthless, it does just not in those words. I am a paint breeder as well and breeding stock were classified as such because they were only good for that as seen by the association. They have since changed that I believe last year not sure my years seem to run together now, but now they are classified as “solids”. There is also a message board for solid paint horses on the yahoo board. As a matter of fact there is a lady on there right now selling her “show” mare because she can not be shown in all the classes due to her solid status. The seller wants to leave the APHA and not give them another dime of her money. I mean come one now, why are they not classified as “regular” because they don’t have a 2″ spot on their side or where ever to qualify them…. this is why people are breeding for homozygous paints…. yes it has been going on for a long time so have grullo/a breeders been doing this for a long time. This is not something that just popped up last night neither of these problems are…
For many years people thought that breeding single dilutes together you could produce Albino’s so the practice of producing these foals was not saught after until probably around 2000 when people really started to learn these horses were not actually albino’s, could of been earlier I am just stating my opinion on when I have seen the change and even more so recently as with the other homozygous horses.
Oh I also must state, I never professed to be an English major, therefore I will make grammer and spelling errors.
As far as the half registeries, my opinion is they are a joke.
If you like them and you love your horses obviously then go ahead and use them my3arabs.
But all it is allowing for is people breeding a grade horse to a registered horse… therefore promoting the breeding of grades. Which I have stated I don’t like. That is my opinion.
I have also stated their are some very nice grades out there, I just wouldn’t own one, again my opinion.
When we had purchased a mare and she came up in foal the owner wanted me to pay them extra. I told them not likely. Therefore the colt was sold as a grade. He had a lot of hollywood gold blood as that was what the farm specialized in. But I am not going to pay more for a horse because it was bred…. horses are sold as is. I know as a breeder I would not want to be known for producing grades, so I would of just done the paper work… I set the price real low for that colt and he was sold when he was a week old. Had another purchaser come out and he offered me double of what my asking price was I informed him the horse was no longer mine therefore I could not sell it that he would have to contact the other buyer…they were not interested in selling this colt. He was sold as a gelding prospect because he was OLW n/h. I don’t believe in promoting that shit as most paint breeders will breed two n/h horses together without regard to the resulting foal.
First off I did not purchase this mare…she was free! Secondly, yes I have bred a grade mare before but the resulting foal was for myself. I did allow my stallion to breed grade mares when I stood him as I was really unable to say no to people when they wanted to breed their favorite horse. I know I shouldn’t have allowed that. That is actually another reason I no longer stand a stallion.
play nice kids said…
As far as the half registeries, my opinion is they are a joke.
If you like them and you love your horses obviously then go ahead and use them my3arabs.
But all it is allowing for is people breeding a grade horse to a registered horse… therefore promoting the breeding of grades. Which I have stated I don’t like. That is my opinion.
So a registered TB and a registered Arab who produce a registered Anglo Arab are considered grade? Same with a reg QH with a reg Arab.
How does that make them grade?
I believe we’ve covered the copyright issue ad nauseum in many other posts. For a quick recap, please see the FAQ’s.
Why would you breed a grade good grief??? You said it was for yourself. What about the ones you sold??? Oh I know that was for you too? And when you no longer want the “grade” foal you produced and it has to be sold, is that still for you? Did you set this foal(s) up to be sent to the slaughter house to meet his death with a bolt gun? (that is how they slaughter them in Canada)!
My3Arabs,
the 1/2 associations only require one registered parent.
I have no idea what requirements are accepted for the anglo arabs or the quarab (not sure if I spelt that correctly). But if they are out of two registered horses then they are not grades are they. A grade horse does not carry registration papers, as one or both of the parents are unknown. Now as for the 1/2 association they could give a rats ass so long as one of the parents is registered with the association, be it arab, qH etc…
I stated before I think the 1/2 registeries are a joke, actually think this is the third time I am stating this, also stated my reasons behind it.
I have also stated if you want to go ahead and use them, your opinion is that they are fantastic, we have to agree to disagree on this one…
I know I wont budge as I know neither will you.
I don’t mind half registries that require both sire and dam to be registered. It’s the registries that don’t care as long as one parent is registered.
play nice kids said… I have also stated if you want to go ahead and use them, your opinion is that they are fantastic, we have to agree to disagree on this one…
Yeah, I disagree and it is too bad that you feel that way.
I have bred exactly one grade mare that belonged to me. The resulting foal was for me and yes I did end up selling him but I know where he went and they gelded him. The other grades I have sold are not ones that I have bred. I have sold grades that were sired by my Paint but they were not mine. I buy untrained horses and sell them broke and yes some of them are grade. What’s your beef with me?
play nice kids – No one is attacking you, just stating the facts. APHA has changed the designation of Breeding Stock to Solid Paint Breds only recently, but the status and eligibility of the solid Paints has not changed. These solid horses have always had opportunities to show, for as long as I can remember. In fact, the first APHA Champion that was a solid was a 1989 mare named A Cute Edge. Don’t tell me they don’t have any opportunities to show. I happen to work for APHA.
The Solid Paint Bred people on that forum want solids to have equal status and show with the Regular Registry horses. Nothing like taking away the incentive to breed for a colored horse! Let them go show with AQHA. Half of them won’t even register their solids with APHA because they think it will take away their horse’s value in the eyes of the AQHA people. Good for them. APHA doesn’t need disloyal members.
No thank you on joining the solid Paint message board. Been there, done that at its inception; too many ignorant people hang out there that can’t carry on an intelligent conversation. Actually, you can apply that to most forums and message boards.
Those that think solids are worth less than colored Paints are the ones devaluing those horses. Paint clubs all across the country have offered classes for Solid Paint Breds – the owners of those solid Paints DON’T SHOW UP. Enough said about that. Many of the people on that solid forum show NRHA anyway and would rather go for the money; they don’t value APHA points.
I can’t speak for anyone else who breeds for homozygous Tobianos, but I can tell you that the goal of my breeding program is to breed exceptional quality ones, because there aren’t any yet. It’s called, “finding a void and filling it”, and I chose to do that with the horses who are registered with APHA. If I wanted solid horses, I’d breed Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds.
Good Grief said…
What’s your beef with me?
November 16, 2007 2:55 PM
I think that it has a beef with everyone that doesn’t agree with it.
Forthefutureofthebreed I’m wondering who your stallion is? I have what I consider an exceptionally well bred mare that I will only breed to a homo tobi as she is solid. I’m shopping around!
good grief – My stallion isn’t homozygous for Tobiano. Thanks.
I know who you are, Good Grief! I remember you from HT!
If I recall correctly, the mare in question was a Mr. Robin Boy daughter that was a barrel horse, correct?
Yah that’s me…and her!
good grief – If you haven’t done so already, I would advise you get your mare tested for OLWS. This will narrow down your search for a stallion for her.
forthebetterofthebreed;
I am a breeder and you can look up my info if you like. I breed paints, and the stallion I have is heterzygous for color so a lot of my foals are solid.
I have a filly here right now that is a tank, she is stunning and yup she is solid and yes she is registered. I don’t devalue them at all. I am and was only stating what is out there right now. My stallion produced a tovero (he was aborted), an overo, a homozygous tobiano and one solid, so he was making sure I was able to obtain one of everything…that was nice of him…haha
You as a paint breeder then must be discouraged somewhat then when you see a homozygous foal or even adult horse for that matter that looks like crap!
I am not saying they all are, and I am not saying all grullo/a’s are crap, obviously some are well bred and have excellent conformation, but others not so much.
The only other issue I have with paints is there are not enough performance one’s out there…tons of halter and WP bred… time will change that too… you also can not deny that shoot just look in the APHA Journal….
You for sure as a paint breeder have to be honest with yourself and realize they are not all perfect, shoot look at all the impressive one’s out there and how heavily muscled they are with toothpicks for legs… I hate their legs! now if a person could put that muscle with a good legged horse that would be nice, so long as they didn’t bring the HYPP with them…haha, I know I am picky… My paint stallion is impressive on the bottom side, but you could not tell by looking at him and he is n/n.
I just would rather not have any other impressive bred horses, so I am selling my paint mare’s and looking into buying more performance working cow horse paints…some with good strong legs, nice hips and pretty heads with brains in them…
good grief, I was just stating facts, I don’t have an issue with anyone.
I have several opinions on different aspecs of breeding. Which I have stated. I don’t agree with breeding grades, and the problem with a lot of people is they say well I will keep him forever…. I did it for me… sad reality is those horses end up getting sold, they are sent to the slaughter house and well I would rather not see that happen.
Same as 1/2 registered horses, they are essentially a grade, it is not that I am picking on my3arabs, they have their opinion and they are more then welcome to it, as I have mine and I am welcome to my own. they can do what they like on their farm that makes them feel good inside, so can I, as well as anyone else including deneze.
So long as it makes you happy and you feel good about it, does it matter what my opinion is???
That is why I said to my3arabs that we just have to be happy with our own opinions (not said in those words). It would be nice if we could change everyone’s opinions, but think of how boring that would be…
I don’t care for arabs, guess what my3arabs, may dislike or hate quarter horses and paints, or curly’s for that matter…
we all have our own opinions and that is what makes us individuals… I think that is a good thing…
good grief – If you haven’t done so already, I would advise you get your mare tested for OLWS. This will narrow down your search for a stallion for her.
*************
I would also ensure that the tobiano stallion you choose be tested as well as tobiano, solids and overo’s can carry the OLW gene.
play nice kids said…
forthebetterofthebreed;
I am a breeder and you can look up my info if you like. I breed paints, and the stallion I have is heterzygous for color so a lot of my foals are solid.
I have a filly here right now that is a tank, she is stunning and yup she is solid and yes she is registered. I don’t devalue them at all. I am and was only stating what is out there right now. My stallion produced a tovero (he was aborted), an overo, a homozygous tobiano and one solid, so he was making sure I was able to obtain one of everything…that was nice of him…haha
I’m looking forward to my stallion siring a variety of patterns as well, since he’s a Tovero who carries the Frame Overo gene.
You as a paint breeder then must be discouraged somewhat then when you see a homozygous foal or even adult horse for that matter that looks like crap!
Of course I’m discouraged! Why do you think I have to breed my own? LOL. I have not found one TT stallion that I would breed one of my mares to.
I am not saying they all are, and I am not saying all grullo/a’s are crap, obviously some are well bred and have excellent conformation, but others not so much.
The only other issue I have with paints is there are not enough performance one’s out there…tons of halter and WP bred… time will change that too… you also can not deny that shoot just look in the APHA Journal….
You either have the ugly-assed cowhorse ones, the WP ones, the racing ones, or the halter ones. Take your pick. We’re breeding for all-around, and my most recent writing on this can be found in the Quarter Horse Journal letters to the editor regarding all-around horses.
You for sure as a paint breeder have to be honest with yourself and realize they are not all perfect, shoot look at all the impressive one’s out there and how heavily muscled they are with toothpicks for legs… I hate their legs! now if a person could put that muscle with a good legged horse that would be nice, so long as they didn’t bring the HYPP with them…haha, I know I am picky… My paint stallion is impressive on the bottom side, but you could not tell by looking at him and he is n/n.
We don’t have any HYPP positive horses. Or HERDA carriers. All of our Tobianos are diverse in their breeding, with enough Impressive and other top halter horses in their bloodlines to give them some elegance, and enough leading AQHA Champion sires and dams to give them the size, substance and athletic ability to do whatever is asked of them.
I just would rather not have any other impressive bred horses, so I am selling my paint mare’s and looking into buying more performance working cow horse paints…some with good strong legs, nice hips and pretty heads with brains in them…
I wish you luck finding some with enough size, substance, correct conformation and elegance to represent what a good, all-around horse is supposed to look like.
xLoosends said…
Amber said…
I love duns (even the black based ones) and I don’t really care what breeding my trail maggots are, as long as they aren’t terminally stupid. All I have to look at is the neck and ears, really.
But if someone GAVE me that horse I’d have it tied to the mailbox with a ‘FREE. Good Home Not Required!’ sign around it’s fuzzy neck before you could blink.
Wow, ummm… how about you punish the breeder instead of the horse? I’m all for abusing idiotic people (like the breeder), but the animal deserves far better care then that – it’s existance is only because of the breeder’s “excellent choice making skills”. Punishing the animal for being ugly doesn’t really sound to good on your part…
November 14, 2007 1:47 PM
****************
If you want to discuss this with the breeder it is Lyle and Grace Young of the Barrhead area….
Also if you don’t know why a horse is in the condition he is in, you should not post about it. That horse was saved from a neglected farm by Athabasca, and when he was brought home we fed him just hay nothing else, and he was wormed and vaccinated, because he didn’t have access to good quality feed he made a pig of himself. The picture of “Jack” is an old one. Deneze did not own him at that time. I have picture’s of him when he was at a stallion alley and he looks a lot better. We got him to the right weight, it did take time.
So before you bash someone for something you know nothing about… do some research, nothing makes a person look more like a fool then posting nonsense…
Uhm, I’m confused.
I thought the horse we were referring to was ‘Annie’, a saddlebred/fjord/quarter MARE, who was recently adopted by Good Grief.
I believe Deneze’s stallion was Two Eyed Wade? His nickname is Jack, and that’s what you’re referring to?
It doesn’t suprise me that his nickname is ‘Jack’, since they were obviously going for the ‘Two Eyed’ reference somewhat heavily, even though he has only a distant 5th generation claim to the blood.
And I don’t care WHAT he looks or looked like, he’s unproven, poorly bred and throws shit for hind leg conformation. That’s gelding-fodder in my book.
forthebetterofthebreed I need more then luck… I have found a lot with impressive breeding, which I am trying to stay away from, or they have no hip, or they have a roman nose…something is not right with them, so I am still looking. I actually have reining and working lines in my QH group. I own a son of zippos zapper out of a shawne lake daughter, I own a playboys up n dun it son by a reys alil lena daughter, and my paint stud is by diamonds n rubles by IB intimidated daughter. The only mare I owned out of my QH’s I didn’t like she crossed nice on my paint stud though, was the Shawne lake daughter, she was more posty in the hind legs and had a plain head, not a real nice hip either, so we sold her as a riding horse. My Fintry Catechu Dan daughter is 18 now does not have a real nice hip and has a sway back – good ole broodmare style…haha, she was used as a broodmare from the time she was 3 years old I believe I have only owned her the past 7 years.
I have a Barry Pine daughter, nice head nicely built but pictures do not bring that across…she is solid black which is the problem. My Maverick major daughter is stunning pretty head and a giant leo hip…so yup I do have some fugly’s, but have some super nice one’s too. Thing with breeding fugly horses is to ensure that the stallion can pretty up their weaknesses, if not sell them and find something else. I have a daughter of ima dun cody by a daughter of hickory dickory doc, that filly is stunning we will see what she matures too…
I like the hollywood dun it cross with doc bar, this cross seems to give them a more powerful hip, nicer tie in, the dun it lines ensure’s a pretty head…the combination gives a nice reining or working cow horse…
Three bars and major bonanza crosses are also very nice as well as three bars and Sir Quincy Dan cross is also another nice one….
oh_for_crying_out_loud has left a new comment on the post “LOL! When fugly grulla breeders attack!”:
Uhm, I’m confused.
I thought the horse we were referring to was ‘Annie’, a saddlebred/fjord/quarter MARE, who was recently adopted by Good Grief.
I believe Deneze’s stallion was Two Eyed Wade? His nickname is Jack, and that’s what you’re referring to?
It doesn’t suprise me that his nickname is ‘Jack’, since they were obviously going for the ‘Two Eyed’ reference somewhat heavily, even though he has only a distant 5th generation claim to the blood.
And I don’t care WHAT he looks or looked like, he’s unproven, poorly bred and throws shit for hind leg conformation. That’s gelding-fodder in my book.
************
Actually when we had him he produced nice legged foals with the best feet I have ever seen, even my stallions I have now do not put those good hooves on… but their pedigrees are stronger, a lot stronger.
We purchased “jack” 7 years or so ago, his barn name was jack before we got him, I sold him to deneze. The photo that was used on this site was when we first got him, he was actually a rack of bones a few weeks before that, and went stupid when we fed him a round hay bale, because he didn’t have good feed before he made a pig of himself.
One of Jack’s fillys is being used in barrel racing, one is in the USA being used as HUS horse, and he was also shown in reining in the open shows down there. He has a couple being used on ranches in southern alberta. So yes he is proven that he can produce a hard working horse that doesn’t break when worked which a bad legged horse would. He has proven he can produce show quality.
The people that own his son in the USA just paid over $12000.00 for him, you don’t pay that kind of money for crap horses! He was purchased so that their daughter could ride HUS in their open shows. In California they have tons of open shows. I did ask if they were ever going to show him in an AQHA approved show, right now they are not sure.
truth be told the horse is not build like the typical HUS horse, he is sired by “jack” and his dam is Quincys Diamond Girl, so Mr Dude Jack, Be Quick, Fintry Catechu Dan and Old Tom Cat on his papers.
As I said if you don’t know don’t post as you look like a fool…..
Oh, thanks for educating me. *eyes rolling*
I based my opinion upon looking at all the get that I could find on the internet. Not ONE of them appeared to be worth a darn.
And YES, people VERY OFTEN have more money than sense, so what was paid for a horse is not always an accurate measure of it’s worth.
You are not educating me or FTFOTB on bloodlines. She’s written BOOKS on the subject, and I am no slouch myself.
I am unwavering in my opinion of Two Eyed Wade. I based my opinion on my knowledge of his pedigree (nothing special), his conformation (regardless of ‘how skinny or out of shape he was’, his conformation is also nothing special) and the foals I could find over the internet, and there were several.
While YOU may think I look like a fool, what I look like to you is of no consequence to me.
I know what I based my opinion on, and I repeat, I stand firm on it.
play nice kids – It’s highly recommended you read the FHOTD post of Sept. 3. It will really help with your credibility when talking about breeding, pedigrees, etc.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. After you’ve read that one, the post from Oct. 16 will help a lot, too.
I can agree he is nothing special. He was no highbrow cat, or doc olena by no means. But he is not as bad as you are trying to make him out to be. He has 10 registered foals, one was euthanized because the fool I sold him to started him to young and screwed up his front leg.
So that leaves only 9 still living that we know of. I know of two out of the 9 that have been out and about in the show ring, not aqha approved but they are still shown successfully. So even though he is not a spectacular stallion, he is not as bad as some either…
You can have your opinion, but if you want to post about how she had him so fat, ensure you know it was her. Before you say all of his foals had bad legs, do your research…
We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them. I am also not trying to teach you about pedigree, but what I was posting is at least his offspring still carry some names of proven horses, I have seen some that do not carry anything proven on their papers.
I was offering more info on a horse you seemed to know all about. You did not know all there was to know about him. You have not seen the foals that were produced here. Therefore I was giving you more insight not educating you… you can only educate those that want to learn and have open minds…
As we all have our opinions I find it doubtful anyone on here would be willing to learn about a horse they are bad mouthing, or the real person behind the picture they are bad mouthing.
listen to yourselves and your posts, you see others get ate alive so when you post, you say things like, disregard the clothes, or disregard this or that…because you fear someone will attack you for it… and you know on this blog it is entirely possible.
OFCOL said, “And YES, people VERY OFTEN have more money than sense, so what was paid for a horse is not always an accurate measure of it’s worth.”
That is the absolute truth! That’s where two fools met, so they say.
In breeding for the improvement of a breed, neither side should be of lesser quality. I don’t care who improves whom, or what excuses are made, one or both should not be breeding.
forthefutureofthebreed has left a new comment on the post “LOL! When fugly grulla breeders attack!”:
play nice kids – It’s highly recommended you read the FHOTD post of Sept. 3. It will really help with your credibility when talking about breeding, pedigrees, etc.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. After you’ve read that one, the post from Oct. 16 will help a lot, too.
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I have wrote pedigree’s on two of my posts, therefore I am unsure of which post you are referring to?
I am happy with the horses I have and their pedigree’s; therefore why would I go read another post from back in October and September? I am also happy with the conformation my horses have for the most part, i do have some fugly’s and I stated that before.
I also stated the magic crosses I like that seem to produce good quality, providing the sire and dam have excellent conformation…
It was not for education or anything else, just stated what I like.
“I don’t care for arabs, guess what my3arabs, may dislike or hate quarter horses and paints, or curly’s for that matter…:
Nope, I am not biased against any breed nor do I hate any breed. I just hate people!
I may not like certain bloodlines within the individual breeds but I am not going to say that bloodline is a “joke”.
For example, I will not go walk up to someone who has a real nice Paint with Zippo lines in it and say “I think your horse is a joke because I don’t like Zippo Pine Bars”. It would just prove that I was a dumb ass with no respect for that person or their opinions.
True everyone has a right to their own opinion but some times it goes overboard.
play nice kids said, “I have wrote pedigree’s on two of my posts, therefore I am unsure of which post you are referring to?”
I referred you to two posts that address using correct pedigree and breeding terminology, which without it, takes away any credibility you’re attempting to build. Sept. 3 and Oct. 16.
To quote your words just a few minutes ago, “you can only educate those that want to learn and have open minds…”
Also if you want me to go back into archives to read past posts, please provide a link, as there are so many posts it would take forever to find the one you speak of.
As for my credibility I post what I have seen with my own breeding program; Therefore it is truthful to the best of my knowledge. As most people base their opinions on their experiences so do I. I am not different then any of you…
I just was not scared to post about the mare’s lineage on this blog.
I have also tested all my horses that go back to poco bueno with the exception of the filly I just purchased. So all with the exception of my Barry Pine daughter are all negative. Yes I still breed the Barry Pine daughter, but obviously more selective as to the stallion she is bred too. It has to be tested with either UC Davis or Cornell University and I require proof of the test results.
“As we all have our opinions I find it doubtful anyone on here would be willing to learn about a horse they are bad mouthing, or the real person behind the picture they are bad mouthing.”
You are WRONG! I have seen pics of Jack after that photo and I have talked with Deneze and I have NOT bad mouthed her, her place or her horses at all.
I was more than willing to find out about her, her family, her pets and her horses. I love her cat Zoe and I think that it is great that she had Thor gelded. She is excited about his training starting up in the Spring.
I have spoken, through email, with quite a few people who have been featured on here, both Brandis for example. Not all of them are bad people or are doing bad things. Many targets on here deserve to be beat to death but others just happen to have pics in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So don’t lump everyone into that small category of being “unwilling” to learn about others.
my3arabs,
I forgot to mention I actually don’t hate arabs, but some of them are not nicely dispositioned they are bred to be flighty so they can “puff” up in the show ring.
I have seen a real nice looking stallion on http://www.equine-trader.com I think he was black or brown. he was pretty, not standing square so could not see his conformation well, but he was nice….
There are a lot of people that dislike certain bloodlines for whatever reason. Two Eyed Jack for example, I like the line, but others not so much, they have been labeled as hard headed, and hard to train. I read somewhere else that someone stated that about the Watch Joe Jack lines, now I don’t recall their reasoning… I think it was because he went back to a hard head…don’t recall that horses name (the hard headed one). But because of that Two Eyed Jack obtained the wrap. Another good example is Sir Quincy Dan, he is noted for having hard to train offspring, but once trained they are hard workers….
So I have heard people say they don’t like a horse because of a certain bloodline… it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I had a paint mare here we ended up sending her for slaughter, I will tell you why, she was a knuckle head, she would run you over, she had an injured front leg, stepped in a goffer hole the previous owner thought when she was a weanling. They did not have it x-rayed, but it literally turned in. We could not do nothing with this mare, she would attack our stallion, mount our mares, so we had her palpated, two vets felt she was a hemephordite (sp) but the only way to be certain was to draw blood. We shipped her, we could not sell her to a family and have people or kids get hurt…the mare other then her one front foot was stunning lots of halter blood, she had pretty good bone, and a nice hip…but that is not everything, a horse needs the entire package to be worth something.
So I appologize for my post as I did state my complete thought and it did not come off the way it was meant to…sorry my3arabs.
I am big enough to admit when I have made an error.
play nice kids said…
I can agree he is nothing special. He was no highbrow cat, or doc olena by no means. But he is not as bad as you are trying to make him out to be.
I do not require super-star status of the stallions I think are good breeding animals. Nor do I believe all super-star stallions are great breeding animals. Not even a little bit. I AM very picky, however, as I believe all students of the equine gene pool should be, and unfortunately are not.
He has 10 registered foals
Is this counting the grade mares he bred? Obviously not.
one was euthanized because the fool I sold him to started him to young and screwed up his front leg.
So that leaves only 9 still living that we know of. I know of two out of the 9 that have been out and about in the show ring, not aqha approved but they are still shown successfully.
Again, showing, like price, isn’t always a good indicator either. ESPECIALLY open or color shows. I’ve seen horses win in color that couldn’t do CRAP in a breed association show. Same with open shows. While it shows that they were BROKE, it doesn’t show that they were really any GOOD.
So even though he is not a spectacular stallion, he is not as bad as some either…
I never said he was the WORST… but just because he ISN’T the worst is no excuse to breed him, is it?!
You can have your opinion, but if you want to post about how she had him so fat, ensure you know it was her.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I have said nothing of his condition. Condition is something that is transient in a horse… and a good horseperson can look beyond it and see what’s underneath. I have no problem looking beyond his cresty-close-to-founder neck… it’s still short. And last I checked, condition did absolutely NOTHING to leg conformation. That’s one thing that stays the same.
Before you say all of his foals had bad legs, do your research…
Maybe all his foals don’t have bad legs. The ones I’ve seen all did, but heck, why would I base an opinion on what I’ve seen with my own eyes? I’ll just take your word for it.
We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them. I am also not trying to teach you about pedigree, but what I was posting is at least his offspring still carry some names of proven horses, I have seen some that do not carry anything proven on their papers.
I just found it funny that you were listing off what certain bloodlines brought to the genetic equation, when FTFOTB (Susan Larkin) is one of THE top pedigree experts in the U.S. I’ve been researching over a decade, and I still differ to her in the area of pedigree.
I was offering more info on a horse you seemed to know all about. You did not know all there was to know about him. You have not seen the foals that were produced here. Therefore I was giving you more insight not educating you… you can only educate those that want to learn and have open minds…
More insight vs. Education… I think it’s the same thing, or darn close. While I don’t know you or pretend to know your breeding program, I can honestly say that I see very little redeeming about Two Eyed Wade. I think he’s garden-variety foundation mediocrity that is overproduced everywhere, the likes of which winds up in auction yards, slaughter houses and rescues on a daily basis. I’m VERY open-minded. A good horse is a good horse, and pedigree doesn’t always breed true. But he is neither good nor bred well.
As we all have our opinions I find it doubtful anyone on here would be willing to learn about a horse they are bad mouthing, or the real person behind the picture they are bad mouthing.
You’d be suprised, at least by me. I can’t speak for everyone, but I CAN say that many of us, myself included, would love to be proven wrong on this. My intention is not to be RIGHT all the time… it’s for the horses to be QUALITY, and thus insured a better shot at a good life. If he’s producing outstanding individuals on a variety of mares that are performing well, I will honestly immediately stand corrected. But I sadly believe this is not the case.
listen to yourselves and your posts, you see others get ate alive so when you post, you say things like, disregard the clothes, or disregard this or that…because you fear someone will attack you for it… and you know on this blog it is entirely possible.
I don’t attack people’s grammar. I know not everyone is an English major, and I know that horsemanship and grammar are not always connected. But it is AMAZING how often you see folks breeding horses like Two Eyed Wade spouting off unintelligible gibberish that they pass off as the English language. While I know better than to say that ALL people who can’t write are also not horse-savvy, if one were to judge by the classified ads and websites people are churning out and the caliber of horses represented, it’s no wonder that people who make grammar and spelling errors get tagged as completely ignorant.
November 16, 2007 6:27 PM
I love Arabs but alas I am too tall for them. I always looked like I was riding a pony when I was training and showing in Cali.
I found that the HA/QH cross was best for me. My mare had good size and great substance, and her grand or great grand sire was Poco Bueno. Most of the time the QH will calm down the hyperness that certain Arab lines have.
The foal that my TB mare will produce comes from real nice Arab lines. Gainey lines are supposed to be good horses but I am only use to the Khemosabi lines so we will see. I have never had an Anglo Arab but I look forward to it’s birth. This foal is Sweep Stakes nominated so that added to the appeal of the Anglo Arab.
Of course I ride Hunt Seat and will dabble in Dressage so the foal, finger crossed, should be a nice HA Sport Horse.
forthefutureofthebreed has left a new comment on the post “LOL! When fugly grulla breeders attack!”:
play nice kids said, “I have wrote pedigree’s on two of my posts, therefore I am unsure of which post you are referring to?”
I referred you to two posts that address using correct pedigree and breeding terminology, which without it, takes away any credibility you’re attempting to build. Sept. 3 and Oct. 16.
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Do you have url to the page(s). Also what is the subject line?
play nice kids said…
I have also tested all my horses that go back to poco bueno with the exception of the filly I just purchased. So all with the exception of my Barry Pine daughter are all negative. Yes I still breed the Barry Pine daughter, but obviously more selective as to the stallion she is bred too. It has to be tested with either UC Davis or Cornell University and I require proof of the test results.
November 16, 2007 6:42 PM
GOOD FOR YOU!! May you stand as a shining example of exemplary breeding practices.
While I may not agree with you on what constitutes a good breeding animal, I CAN say that that is very intelligent and forward-thinking of you to test your Poco Bueno stock.
While it seems like every-day simple horse ownership, you’d be suprised how many people think it’s not a big deal.
My3Arabs said…
I love Arabs but alas I am too tall for them. I always looked like I was riding a pony when I was training and showing in Cali.
Whereabouts in Cali? I’m a Cali native, lived here all my life, and I’ve dabbled in arabs off and on since the ’80s. Maybe I know you.
I was in Ojai and worked for Eagle Crest Arabians, a tiny lil place. Most of their foals were Crabbet from Kelvin Lancer and one was a Serenader (sp). We did the Southern Cali Arabian Circuit shows and the owners did some Regional in Santa Barbara and at the Equestrian Center in LA.
Most of the time I was a baby sitter for the Ojai group. They loved to drink, especially when they were nervous, lol. I was supposed to go to a A show in Santa Barbara in 89 but my mare had a bone spavin so we were done showing.
GOOD FOR YOU!! May you stand as a shining example of exemplary breeding practices.
While I may not agree with you on what constitutes a good breeding animal, I CAN say that that is very intelligent and forward-thinking of you to test your Poco Bueno stock.
While it seems like every-day simple horse ownership, you’d be suprised how many people think it’s not a big deal.
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Shoot I have ran into people that could careless about HERDA and are in it for the money, god forbid you get between them and the money and HERDA is trying to get between them and the money… I guess if they close their eyes real tight they can not see a thing….
I do see some of the points you are making regarding “jack” and I don’t disagree with them all, but I also don’t think that some of your statements are true.
I have no idea which foals you have seen of his. but no i did not include the grade as god only knows how many of them there is. I also don’t know what the mare through onto her foals, my guess is bad legs came from her… When we had Jack he was bred to Two Eyed Foxy Queen, she was my first horse and really a no nothing pedigree, went back to good stuff, but that was really it…the filly was stunning sold her and the dumb ass never registered her, I tried to buy her back but he had sold her and because she was not registered I could not find her…. she was a liver chestnut, and super friendly and nice…we had a couple foals from that crop that were nice, from Jack. So I can only comment on the one’s I have seen…
I can not say he has never produced a poorly conformation foal, as I have no idea what all he has produced, he was six when we obtained him…. so he has a lot more foals out there then anyone knows of…
I referred you to two posts that address using correct pedigree and breeding terminology, which without it, takes away any credibility you’re attempting to build. Sept. 3 and Oct. 16.
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Do you have url to the page(s). Also what is the subject line?
play nice kids, every post on FHOTD is in chronological order (by date). No links, because there are many posts to a page on each month’s link. Just scroll down on ANY of the post (picture) pages (not the comment pages), and you will find a list of the posts, in dated order, with titles. I gave you the dates. Click on Sept. in the archives, when that page loads, scroll down to Sept. 3 and there it is. Then go to October in the archives, let that page load, and scroll down to Oct. 16. They are simple to find. They are two guest blogs I wrote. After reading your comments, I think those posts will help you a lot.
Do you have url to the page(s). Also what is the subject line?
play nice kids, every post on FHOTD is in chronological order (by date). No links, because there are many posts to a page on each month’s link. Just scroll down on ANY of the post (picture) pages (not the comment pages), and you will find a list of the posts, in dated order, with titles. I gave you the dates. Click on Sept. in the archives, when that page loads, scroll down to Sept. 3 and there it is. Then go to October in the archives, let that page load, and scroll down to Oct. 16. They are simple to find. They are two guest blogs I wrote. After reading your comments, I think those posts will help you a lot.
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I have already read those, read them the first day I was on this blog.
I see a lot of those errors, people say colt when they mean filly, say their horse is a roan when it is actually a robicano or sabino.
I didn’t think my post was that bad, mind you I did not read it over before I sent it either….
A ton of people spell conformation incorrectly and I even do if I am in a typing furry, and often spell cold as colt…haha…
play nice kids – Just thought I’d help out. No worries…
**Oh For Crying Out Loud: “I just found it funny that you were listing off what certain bloodlines brought to the genetic equation, when FTFOTB (Susan Larkin) is one of THE top pedigree experts in the U.S.”
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FTFOTB is Susan Larkin? SUSAN LARKIN?!?!?
Holy shamoley! A decade or more ago, I bought some QH research material from her — heck, >>>>>>
*runs off to check horse bookcase*
Yes! I’ve got her “Thoroughbred Sires of Quarter Horses” volumes 1, 2 and 3!
Oh, man, it’s like the cyberspace version of meeting a longtime idol! HOLY SHAMOLEY!!!!!
Susan, I’ve still got all the pedigree charts I drew up (big fat 3-ring binderful) on my great old Wiescamp-bred QH gelding, that your books were SUCH an immense help in researching. Thank You!!!
*huge grin; waves frantically*
Oh, yeh, just in case, Susan (if you even see this), you’re wondering who I am/who my horse was (died September 16, 2005, RIP good buddy), his name was Skip In Place, a 1982 QH gelding by Nicky Skip out of Bud’s Proud Doll.
Never Ben Better has left a new comment on the post “LOL! When fugly grulla breeders attack!”:
**Oh For Crying Out Loud: “I just found it funny that you were listing off what certain bloodlines brought to the genetic equation, when FTFOTB (Susan Larkin) is one of THE top pedigree experts in the U.S.”
*********
FTFOTB is Susan Larkin? SUSAN LARKIN?!?!?
Holy shamoley! A decade or more ago, I bought some QH research material from her — heck, >>>>>>
*runs off to check horse bookcase*
Yes! I’ve got her “Thoroughbred Sires of Quarter Horses” volumes 1, 2 and 3!
Oh, man, it’s like the cyberspace version of meeting a longtime idol! HOLY SHAMOLEY!!!!!
Susan, I’ve still got all the pedigree charts I drew up (big fat 3-ring binderful) on my great old Wiescamp-bred QH gelding, that your books were SUCH an immense help in researching. Thank You!!!
*huge grin; waves frantically*
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I just purchased a book from Frank Holmes regarding the weiscamp horses, it is an awesome book, has their QH’s, paints and appy’s all included…
Play Nice Kids: Oh, those Wiescamps were such gorgeous horses, and bred to do it all back when QH’s really DID do it all. There’s a B&W photo, a side shot of three of his mares, I think it’s in the Holmes book, standing in the pasture side by side, overlapping so you could compare butt to butt to butt — and alike as three peas in a pod.
Thanks for your kind words on losing my boy Skip In Place (Nick the Magnificent Pickle to his many friends). I was fortunate — no, BLESSED to have him for the last 13 of his 23 years, and he taught me so much, gave me so much joy, heck, owning him as my first horse actually changed my life to the much better place it is today than when I bought him, my first horse, at age 42.
Can’t say enough about how wonderful a really good QH is. I love my current horse, a TB gelding with a QH mind, but Pickle was — well, if a horseperson is really blessed they’ll have the great good fortune to own a Horse Of A Lifetime. He was it.
Never Ben Better:
I can sure tell by your post how much you loved you pickle.
I know how hard it is to loose a good one.
I don’t have that photo in the wiescamp book I have it is “The Hank Wiescamp Story” I just received it Wednesday I think, so have not had a chance to read through it, but I read parts of it and I can not wait to sit down and read it all.
I only have I believe one horse that goes back to skipper w and that is my paint stallion, it way way back in his pedigree, something 7th or 8th generation. I have not pulled 8 generations on my other horses, so that is why I said I believe….
The three-mare photo (huh, it’s actually four, including the head in the background) is in the Holmes book, it’s on the second page of the Introduction, at least in the edition I have, from 1996.
never ben better:
I see it now, I think we have the same edition!, palomino, then looks like another palomino and lastly a chestnut, the fourth horse I can only see it’s head and front leg as it is eating.
I was looking within the early horse influences and onward…
oh my my said…
just do a search for grullas. They come fuglier than most. it’s a shame.
speaking of grullo yak…what the hell is up with this one’s head??
http://www.rollingmeadowsranch.net/rmr_007.htm
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I don’t see anything wrong with this boy. He was mentioned above. Am I missing something?
Never Ben Better said…
Oh, yeh, just in case, Susan (if you even see this), you’re wondering who I am/who my horse was (died September 16, 2005, RIP good buddy), his name was Skip In Place, a 1982 QH gelding by Nicky Skip out of Bud’s Proud Doll.
I’m sorry you lost your horse. They become so much a part of our lives. Glad you found my books useful in your pedigree research. Thank you.