If you can’t feed it, DON’T BREED IT!
Nov 14 2007
Memo to horsepeople everywhere:
MOST BUYERS DO NOT WANT TO PURCHASE A BRED MARE.
Most buyers want a horse TO RIDE. The last thing they want is a mare that is going to get too pregnant to ride and then pop out a foal which prevents you from doing damn near anything with the mare for the next FOUR MONTHS or more.
By breeding your mares, YOU ARE MAKING THEM LESS MARKETABLE. Basically, you have infected them with a condition that causes vet bills and prevents use of the mare! It’s like selling a mare with a freshly bowed tendon, as far as MOST buyers are concerned.
MANY PEOPLE BOARD. Their barns may not even ALLOW foals. And their budget certainly isn’t looking for that monthly cost to DOUBLE.
And if YOU can’t afford to feed them, why do you think someone ELSE can afford to feed TWO? Do you not comprehend that breeding a mare is like saying “I would like my hay bill to double, please!” Not to mention your farrier bill, your vet bill, the cost of dewormer, etc.? What if you don’t get the mare sold, a very real possibility with a low end mare in this market. YOU JUST DOUBLED YOUR EXPENSES, YOU IDIOT!
Low end horses are not like caramel frappucinos…NO ONE is going to get all excited that they are getting two for the price of one!
And it is to you, the author of this next ad, and everybody like you, that this post is directed:
“FREE
I’m looking for a good home for a registered purebred arabian mare that needs more time/attention/help than I can give her. She has laminitis due to a retained placenta. She’s currently on Bute daily for it. Some days she barely limps and others she can hardly walk. I’m also having a hard time getting weight on her. I think she’d recover in a home where she could be stalled at night and had access to a good farrier and a good vet. Her baby is due to be weaned around thanksgiving, so she could be taken after that. My only other option is to have her put down as I don’t have enough time to take care of her the way she deserves.
$90 OBO
Yearling POA/mustang pinto cross colt.
Very cute and sweet, LOVES kids and would make a great best friend for someone. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with him – I just don’t have the time to spend with him and not enough hay to last the winter. Willing to deal for 4H/kids home.
$250 OBO
Morgan cross mare. Exposed to mustang pinto stud for May 08 baby. I can’t guarantee it (the stud is sold), but she looks bred. Very sturdy, stocky and an extremely easy keeper. She was very broke for trail riding, but hasn’t been ridden in a few years, so she’d need a refresher course. Horses are located south of Mauston. Email for more information and/or pictures. love_sun_sand@yahoo.com. Thanks.”
119 comments to “If you can’t feed it, DON’T BREED IT!”
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Re: clicker training: I personally don’t use clicker under saddle. I do ride in shorts on occasion. I know this lady from the Icelandic forum–very nice, well-respected person, knows horses. Clicker may not be for everyone, but I also don’t think this lady/video deserves to be trashed.
Ummmm, yeah, what is with the “american” comments? I guess if you have a confederate flag as window coverings, you must need to specify the nationality.
And work for president Bush? Fuck that, I think Fugly should BE the President. What better way to be an American?
– Just a side bar comment–
We recently had a professional photo shoot at my barn with all my students and clients. While I was getting a group ready there was a little girl with my pony, Patch the Wonder Pony, getting her pics. When I walked up she was sitting on him bareback (that is OK) but without shoes. I freaked out. 1 because who the hell said that ANYONE could ride/sit/be near a horse without shoes (wasn’t me) and 2 I was thinking– oh good God, if FHOTD sees this…..
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I think I said earlier I took a picture of my boy on an appy over the weekend and I’m afraid to post it because when I got there he wasn’t wearing a helmet.
just reading through re: clicker/treat training – NO, treats are NOT an acceptable method of training because they CANNOT work – its too slow!! the reward must be INSTANT, ask and release, the release is the reward. by the time youve stopped the horse, attracted its attention and fed it something from the saddle, how is it to distinguish what precise behaviour is being rewarded? it is not possible for that method to work, therefore you cant say its a viable method if it works – it wont.
re: marbles to prevent heat/breeding in mares
It isn’t an old wives tale- it is a generally accepted although not extremely reliable method to “trick” the uterus into recognizing a pregnancy, which will maintain the CL, increase progesterone, and decrease estrogen. Mares can still come into heat, but I would venture to guess that it is due to the lack of fetal progesterones. Pregnant mares occasionally show heat when safely in foal, but that’s probably not a big factor. Here are a few sites with more info:
HorseCity article
Anecdotal story for what it’s worth
Marble company
TheHorse.com article, free reg req’d
TheHorse: Regulating Estrous
My TheHorse login isn’t working >:| otherwise I’d copy and paste text, but you get the idea
I agree that clicker training *with treats* isn’t a viable under saddle training method. I really didn’t like how the “head down” video horse would plunge his head down, then throw it up, turn his head and get a nasty “gimme gimme!” look on his face while grabbing for the treat.
With that said, if a click/cluck and a “GOOOOOOD boy!” is a desired reward, more power to you. If it can be whittled down to a click/cluck and moment of rest and relief, that’s the goal in my eyes. Although the ultimate would be cue-behavior-relief, not cue-behavior-click-treat-relief or even cue-behavior-click-relief.
Another note- any animal (studies with horses, crows, primates, and people!) show that behavior-reward will make the behavior LESS consistent, or likely to result from a cue, than behavior-sporadic reward. ie if you praise the hell out of your horse every time he breaks at the poll, he’ll get used to the process and not be as willing to do it each time. But if he gets praise 75% of the time, or 50%, then he’s more likely to do it to because he doesn’t know what the outcome will be. It becomes more interesting and more of a game than just doing what he’s told. Hard for me to explain and get down to the nitty gritty psychology of it, but that’s the basic idea.
although it is extraORdinarily cute when kyra kyrklund gives max a lump of sugar after the grand prix and he does a little hoof wave to the crowd ^__^
angel_with_a_broken_halo wrote: “Do you want your horse reaching back like that every time s/he thinks it needs a treat?”
I don’t recall the horse in the video ever reaching back with his head before hearing her click. Part of clicker training is teaching the subject that the treat will only be available after the click. No click, no treat.
As for the shorts and helmet issue, as I recall she was wearing ankle high boots, so her footwear was appropriate for working around horses. She was bareback, so her skin didn’t need to be protected from her tack. She was in a corral, so she wasn’t in need of protection from branches or anything like that. She had on a helmet, which is appropriate for any time you might risk your head meeting the ground from eight feet up (approximately five feet of horse plus three feet of rider equals eight feet).
lifelike001 said…
just reading through re: clicker/treat training – NO, treats are NOT an acceptable method of training because they CANNOT work – its too slow!! the reward must be INSTANT, ask and release, the release is the reward. by the time youve stopped the horse, attracted its attention and fed it something from the saddle, how is it to distinguish what precise behaviour is being rewarded? it is not possible for that method to work, therefore you cant say its a viable method if it works – it wont.
My basic understanding of clicker training is that the click is the notification of good behavior, not the treat. In fact, in the few articles I’ve read years ago when it was first getting popular, it is recommended to not always treat, or delay the treat.
I think if you read up on it more, you might understand it better.
i would read up on it, but no person in their right mind would clicker train FROM THE SADDLE. let alone admit in public that they thought that would work and actually tried it.
however, the challenge is now on. first person i see attempting to half pass and click maniacally at the same time wins a big fat humiliation when i laugh my arse off at what a demiwitted loser they are.
if you havent yet twigged that riding is biomechanical, i suggest you read up on it.
I have actually bought two bred mares. One is a TWH, out of a show stable, on the small side. Daughter of a World Grand Champion. She is absolutely the best moving horse I own. I paid $800 for her, in foal to a nobody from nowhere. Cute little sabino filly which a friend bought for $800. (Factor in feed, IgG test and Rhino, and the sale might actually have paid for my gas to pick her up.) I bought her IN SPITE of the fact she was bred…not because of it.
The other was a sweet little SSH mare, blinded in one eye, bought a few years ago for $450 to keep her out of the auction and out of a can. My sister, with a much better eye than I, said, “is that mare bred?” I know some people won’t believe this, but a vet will actually come out and palp the mare and tell you if a newly purchased horse “might be bred.”
And when I asked the seller if she knew she might be in foal, of course she told me what a “deal” I got. Oh yeah. Great deal. $450 for your blind pony sized mare, now rhino shots, vet call, ultrasound, IgG for the colt and castration. Yeah. What a deal.
When I first put my 4 y/o mare up for sale I got a ton of requests to trade for prego mares. Some were a 3 for 1 deal. *eye roll*
lifelike001 wrote: “i would read up on it, but no person in their right mind would clicker train FROM THE SADDLE. let alone admit in public that they thought that would work and actually tried it.”
http://www.theclickercenter.com/
I’m don’t know how to do the html to make it into a link.
Alexandra Kurland, dressage rider, trainer and clicker trainer.
youre not seriously suggesting thats dressage training? *loud guffaws*
lifelike001 wrote: “youre not seriously suggesting thats dressage training? *loud guffaws*”
I’m sorry, my reply was unclear. I was giving an idea of Alexandra Kurland’s background and approach. She does use clicker training successfully in under saddle work, including for dressage horses.
like i said, noone in their right mind….
“I really didn’t like how the “head down” video horse would plunge his head down, then throw it up, turn his head and get a nasty “gimme gimme!” look on his face while grabbing for the treat.”
I think that was AWBH point. The horse was expecting a treat for what it did. What if the rider wasn’t really paying attention and got smacked in the head when he wanted his treat?
That wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense, since the rider is paying attention enough to click when the correct behavior is displayed. Also, the horse is coming up to the side, not straight up.
Not my training style of choice, I don’t really know much about it, and I already have my own methods that work well for my reaction times, but I’m not going to slam anyone who chooses to use that method. It beats a helluva lot of other methods I’ve seen used, in terms of training success, lack of abuse, and safety for both horse and rider.
OrangeElmo said…
Three in one deals are even worse. The mare, her nursing foal, and she’s bred back for 2008!! What a deal!
I see this a lot in “herd reduction” ads.
OrangeElmo do you even know this breeder? I do!
Her horses look fantastic, are all conformationally correct, fed, rugged, trimmed etc as needed.
She has some of the best bloodlines in the country and the mares certainly arent over bred.
So I suggest you stick your filthy jealous comments back where you got them from you stupid mole!
Just because you cant afford horses of this calibre doesnt mean you can email and put down people who can! Crawl back under your rock you toad.