Out of one slaughter truck, into another!
Nov 12 2007
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/grd/476440863.html
“Yearling bay qh/morgan cross colt, halter broke, very sweet, and very willing, not at all a spooky horse. He does have turned out fronts, and a parrot mouth, it does not seem to bother his eating what so ever. He is an easy keeper. Was a rescue at 4 mo…was pulled off his dam off the slaughter truck. I dont want him to have to go back on the slaughter truck, but if he does not find a home by thursday he will be going to the woodburn auction on Friday. I have to many horses and not enough room. Please take this sweet guy into your home. NO KICK OR BITE. He stalls or stays well in pastures and respects the fences, gets along well with all horses.”
1. He is not a “rescue” or you would not be thinking about sending him to Woodburn. You do not get to say you “rescued” them when you have simply delayed their slaughter.
2. Whoever bred this mixed-breed, crooked legged, parrot mouthed colt…Are you proud of yourself now? What the hell was your point, anyway? Did he come into being because of sloppy fence or did you really think it’d just be so kyoooot to have a foal…up to the point where you took him and his dam to the auction?
The sad part is, he IS cute. And he may be sound and he may do fine. But he’s going to have to win the horse lottery not to wind up on a double decker by the weekend. I hope he’s lucky but I won’t hold my breath.
I have a feeling I’m going to be really sick of seeing these ads in another four months…and no, this is not happening because slaughter is illegal in the U.S. (After all, that hasn’t slowed down the kill buyers a bit). This is happening because of irresponsible breeding and poor planning/financial management among horse owners.
Anybody got a way to fix that? I’m all ears!
95 comments to “Out of one slaughter truck, into another!”
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“He respects the fences”- unlike his sire and dam. Well that’s a plus. Breeding for improvement in that program!
He actually is cute, and he might make a fine trail or 4-H horse. I hope for his sake he goes to good home. He is FREE, to boot. If he had half a chance he might wind up a little superstar.
If the guy doesn’t want him to go to slaughter WHY would he take him to auction? What an asshat. They’re all asshats!
My mom told me an interesting tidbit last night – my parents share a vet with a 60-something year old woman who has a 40-50 horse herd of (allegedly) well-bred quarter horses. She is pretty well known for taking good care of her animals – vet, farrier, well-fed….I guess word gets around a small town when you’re writing that large of a vet, farrier, and feed bill on a regular basis. Anyway, this lady has decided she can’t continue to care for so many horses over the winter, and with the horse market in the crapper she can’t sell them for what they’re worth (or what she thinks they’re worth). She doesn’t want them to go to slaughter so won’t give them away, take them to an auction, or sell them to strangers. Therefore, she has an appointment with the vet to euthanize and dispose of 30 or so horses this weekend. This decision is causing quite the local stir, and folks are calling her cruel for even considering (much less carrying out) such a plan. Frankly, as sad as it is, I have to applaud her decision. Granted, she shouldn’t have bred so many that she clearly could not sell (and shame on her if she intends to breed more!), but at least she is taking personal responsibility for the animals she created……
Geld the fugly:
Where are these horses located?
Well, in this guy’s defense, HE didn’t CAUSE the problem. He’s done what he could, was honest in his ad, and the little guy is FREE. Sometimes we have to do what we have to do, and its better to try and rehome one than to let it starve to death.
Where was this ad published?
Aw, poor little guy. I love QHxMorgans as my first horse was one and was amazing! ( no I didnt breed him i took csare of him when my neighboir was sick, and then the neighbor died so I took him) Wow the guys an idiot saying he rescued him, and then will just send him of again to slaughter.
KUDOS TO YOU FOR REPOSTING THIS!
If he’s to have ANY chance at ALL, the more people that read about him the better.
Poor guy.
I hope the dumbshits that breed horses like this all the time are reading about him and understanding what happens.
Of course, since it’s always somebody or something else’s fault when it comes to these morons, nothing ever applies to them.
Geld the Fugly…I agree with you. I don’t actually have a problem with that – unless of course she has every mare on the place bred back. I really would rather see that happen to a horse than, for instance, the Woodburn auction.
And don’t write and tell me you saved one from there and he’s in the best home ever. Yes, so have we. My friend got a kick ass Standardbred for $230. But the majority of unbroke grade horses going through there are going straight to a double-decker, and we all know it.
Oh jeez! I’m close enough to go get him but I ony have one stall and with weather like we had today I would feel horrible leaving him out. I have one stall for a reason, so I don’t do things like this. I’m sure I could find him a home soon though, I’m a trimmer so I know a lot of people. Maybe the trainer I worked for today would take him, I’d haul him if she would take him. What’s $100 in fuel?
Poor little guy.
Here’s another fugly foundation breeder not far from where I live trying to liquidate the fuglies with piss-poor excuses.
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1121112
I saw this ad the other day. My god, just put the horse down.
He’d be better off putting a price of about $500 on him to get him into a “good” home better than slaughter. FREE makes him sound like there may be something wrong with him detering good homes and inviting kill buyers.
Well, Decorum, I have a feeling we could find a yearling sized waterproof blanket to borrow if you wanted to go get him…
And the problem is, with a $500 price tag, he’ll sit there forever. You can buy a good broke horse at these sales for $300. Often WITH papers.
Well let’s hope he wins the horsie lottery and someone takes pity on him and gives him a good home.
You can’t sell a horse like that, so free is his only chance at anything other than a one-way ticket across the big pond.
I e-mailed the lady. I guess we could take him, but I don’t know how I’ll haul him. Ugh, it would be easier if I didn’t have such a soft heart.
If the humans can’t fix stupid or breed it out of existance, how can we expect the animals to do it on their own?
He is cute, and hopefully he wins at the equine roulette wheel. Too bad the breeder couldn’t take his place on the double decker.
you CAN fix stupid, unfortunately the courts look down on tranquilizing and performing surgery on people without their consent…
gah, stupid joke, but ah well. Best of luck getting to him. If you’re going to do it, I would let the owner know IMMEDIATELY so someone else doesn’t take him to god only knows where…
I think he is the same one I posted on the forum that was on an online auction! It’s listed under “Another Ass who rescued a foal and then rode it” in General Horse Related.
I’m in North Cali, but if whomever adopts him need a halter or gear or something for him, I’m sure I could dig something up. Between myself and my friends, we’ve got enough horse tack crap to outfit the entire USET.
So if you find yourself with a ‘wish list’ for him, post it and we’ll see what we can come up with.
Sigh. My recently retired 21 year old is, for his breed, well bred. Racing type Appy. Sire was a World/National Performance Champion over fences; dam is a nice mare, granddaughter of Grog, Seabiscuit’s half brother (whoops! that may be the explanation for the legs….). He was and is v. slightly parrot mouthed, periodically remedied by cutting back his upper incisors. The misalignment is very slight. He DOES toe out a bit – and so his responsible breeder, who bred for the track, did not send him to be race trained, but kept until he was nearly four, had him started, and sold him as a hunter-type sport horse. I’ve had him nearly 18 years.. Unless this colt’s defects are extreme, he could probably be quite a useful type, not necessarily destined to be “only” a trial horse: My horse showed successfully as a hunter/jumper, evented a very little (not his cup of tea), and reached 3rd level as a dressage horse (and was a good trail horse at all times). What shame. IDIOTS!
Poor guy. I’m too far away to do anything but I wish I wasn’t right now. Scary to think about what happens to horses these days.
Now, this is just my opinion, but I think the slaughter ban was premature. Great idea and I’m really glad to see them gone, but the root problem is still there and now the horse economy is suffering. Better to have gotten a law through that stopped backyard breeding and found inexpensive euthanisia options and solved those problems FIRST, and then ban slaughterhouses. Maybe little horses like this wouldn’t be in such sad shape.
But maybe things would be exactly the same. Who knows. I like to think they wouldn’t, though.
oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
I’m in North Cali, but if whomever adopts him need a halter or gear or something for him, I’m sure I could dig something up. Between myself and my friends, we’ve got enough horse tack crap to outfit the entire USET.
Boy do I know what THAT’s like! I just keep selling stuff and giving it away and somehow I STIL end up with more than I know what to do with. How does that work??
loneplainsman said…
Poor guy. I’m too far away to do anything but I wish I wasn’t right now. Scary to think about what happens to horses these days.
Now, this is just my opinion, but I think the slaughter ban was premature. Great idea and I’m really glad to see them gone, but the root problem is still there and now the horse economy is suffering. Better to have gotten a law through that stopped backyard breeding and found inexpensive euthanisia options and solved those problems FIRST, and then ban slaughterhouses. Maybe little horses like this wouldn’t be in such sad shape.
But maybe things would be exactly the same. Who knows. I like to think they wouldn’t, though.
That is EXACTLY what I thought.
While I don’t like the idea of horses being slaughtered anymore than the next horselover, I REALLY don’t like the idea of them starving to death, or being abandoned.
It seems they stopped the source HERE IN THE U.S., but unfortunately, they just truck them across the border.
loneplainsman said…
oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
I’m in North Cali, but if whomever adopts him need a halter or gear or something for him, I’m sure I could dig something up. Between myself and my friends, we’ve got enough horse tack crap to outfit the entire USET.
Boy do I know what THAT’s like! I just keep selling stuff and giving it away and somehow I STIL end up with more than I know what to do with. How does that work??
Heck if I know. It’s like the unwritten law of horse ownership: Thou shalt have 5 halters, 12 leadropes, 6 saddle blankets and at least 3 buckets full of sundry items for each horse on the property. So sayeth the horse owner.
The more I read this blog the more I question that I should persist with breeding horses – sigh. I know you concentrate on your situation over there, but it is not like it isn’t the first time I have looked at the huge numbers of horses for sale in Horsedeals Magazine for instance and thought there are just so many out there, why should I just be adding to the number.
I can argue that I have spent a ton of money on getting the best horses I could (so can a lot of other people), I can argue that I have spent a heap on getting them professionally trained and campaigned (so have a lot of other people, including all those people with their H/H halter horses over on your side of the ocean), I can argue that I make sure they are wormed, vaccinated, feet trimmed, handled etc (so do the majority of people). I can argue there is a real market for them as they have all sold to date by word of mouth. (but they are of course a “fantasy horse†and may the equine de jour at the moment). But is that really reason enough?
Then I tell myself that if I stopped breeding, it really wouldn’t diminish the number of mini colts in the $1,000 or under section. The people who buy my horses might choose to buy a warmblood instead, or an Irish Sport horse, or even a TB, but they aren’t going to get a mini “instead†(as well as maybe). Me stopping breeding isn’t going to stop the oversupply of a different type of horse. But then doesn’t everyone think that way. Doesn’t every one, including the featured BYB’s on this blog think their horses are special, different to your average Joe, just what every buyer wants?
Its very depressing.
blackfluffyhorses said…
The more I read this blog the more I question that I should persist with breeding horses – sigh.
Don’t despair! That’s just the sign of a responsible breeder! I’ve had the same thoughts occasionally myself. If someone doesn’t breed the exceptional horses, who will? There has to be responsible breeders upholding the integrity of the breed. If responsible breeders stop breeding, it doesn’t mean the BYBs will stop.
Yes, there is always the question of what QUALITY is, and everyone’s perception of it. The success of your program will determine that in the long run. These breeders who can’t sell their product each year are not breeding for exceptional horses (they THINK they are, though). If they were truly quality animals, they would sell easily. Supply and demand will come into play. True quality is rare. Mediocre and poor quality is everywhere.
Cookie,
Where are you located? I have a trailer but no stall for him and all my waterproof blankets are 81′s. If you are reasonably close I might be able to help. I am 3 1/2 hours from the horse to the north so if you are in that direction I may be able to help you out. Or have you talked yourself out of it? haha I will not take him myself but I’m willing to haul in my direction.
Dear Decorum,
Pray tell what are you putting your 81″ blankets ON? Asian elephants?! I just bought a 72″ as the 74″ is a mite too big on our oldster who is an honest 15′. From a safe distance I’d like to see the critter that wears an 81.
LOL! Hey, I live with an “82.” He is a Standardbred the size of a moose.
blackfluffyhorse,
I’ve had exactly the same thoughts WRT my rattery. I have nice rats, well-bred rats, that are treated well, handled every day from birth, and I have a good reputation. BUT with hundreds of rescue critters out there, how can I justify breeding *mine*? The problem is made worse by there being no rat shows in my area — for very good reasons — so there is no obvious physical distinction between mine and the rescues.
What I’ve done is scale way back. That way I won’t get overwhelmed, and eventually (I hope) my market will be back. It’s the best I can do for now.
Rat shows? I laughed til I cried. Thanks, I needed that!
OK, I have a problem I hope someone on here can help with….
I am trying to rehome a horse, a trained, 1st level Dressage and trick horse (you know, bow, lie down, spanish walk, etc) who needs a good home. We got him in trade for another horse and after working with him for awhile, his personality and mine did not mesh well. I gave him to a friend who seemed to get along beautifully with him, and things were good for awhile. Now she has decided that she can’t afford him and does not have time for him, and he needs to go. I cannot take him back as I now live in an apartment 200 miles away. If I had land I would, even if he were just a pet. I am offering him free to good home, to a female rider who is calm, quiet and gentle (he is very sensitive). He is a Saddlebred (not gaited) and is about 15.2 hands and about 12 years old. He seems to prefer a smaller rider, even though he is sound and a good-sized horse. He will go english or western. He has had an extensive amount of training and is super intelligent. He is located in north west Louisiana near Shreveport. If anyone is interested please contact me, scaequestrian@yahoo.com.
I am not trying to off-load a fugly here, nor is this something I bred, I am simply trying to find somewhere this guy can go to have the attention he needs and be done something with, instead of being ignored in the pasture.
Speaking of big blankets, I have one mare that wears an 86 when she is fit for show. She is 16.3 and HUGE. She has 4 ROM’s in PHBA and is nearly 91.255 foundation Qh. But Shhhhh don’t tell anybody! LOL!
Try posting him on the Giveaways forum on COTH…chronicleforums.com. I think you are most likely to find the type of knowledgeable spot for him that you want there.
Farmer’s Wife: This is what my 16 hand QH who wore a size 81″ blanket looked like:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1010954969000735275VszIGXrvah
And here’s what he looked like in his winter fuzzies nekkid:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1000805338000735275
And here’s him having fun in his blanket:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1000805459000735275
fuglyhorseoftheday said…
LOL! Hey, I live with an “82.” He is a Standardbred the size of a moose.
LOL. My stallion wears an 82 blanket. He’s 16.1h.
SCAequest.–I wasn’t originally thinking of a saddlebred, but if you could eliminate a few 1000 miles…
I have an idea I pulled out of my RDB a while back…be patient. It’s cracked, but Desperate Times, Desperate Measures. For all the people who think they’re going to make millllllllions on breeding the friesaraloosa-tekes or unhandled mustangs everyone’s beating down doors for, we should put up a website.
We’ll call it “How to make MONEY breeding horses”, to get their attention, then start with George Vanderbilt’s quote (IIRC) that he made a million on horses by spending 5 million–and take it downhill from there, explaining the expenses, increased vet bills, things that go wrong, the importance of training unless you want horses going who-knows-where, and why this is happening–Guess what, there’s no market for even good horses.
I don’t think it’ll work, either, but it might at least raise a bit of doubt in some people.
Wow! What a cute sweet face he has. Someone, please actually do a real rescue and take him into your herd to make him a loving gelding and an excellent horse.
The slaughter houses do not take light weight horses like this baby, he would go for dog food, chicken food, fertilizer. Hateful situation, but true.
dang. Parrot-mouth baby is just down the road from me. Well, less than ten or fifteen minutes away probably. I just can’t though.
[B]the-farmer’s-wife said…
Dear Decorum,
Pray tell what are you putting your 81″ blankets ON? Asian elephants?! I just bought a 72″ as the 74″ is a mite too big on our oldster who is an honest 15′. From a safe distance I’d like to see the critter that wears an 81. [/B]
My old horse wore an 84 and he was 16.2, as does my client’s 16.2 Dutch Warmblood. Her daughter’s Shire wears a 92 (he foxhunts and does local jumper shows)
Oh dear! Your horses are lovely but BIG! I do hope that next spring when I have my test rides on Shovels and Chipgirl’s stock horses they are not too tall. I’m 5’2″ and about the same width, prefer my horses short & sturdy.
I went to a local stable tonight to check it out for my new mare. It is a nice place but nothing like what I was at in Cali.
The board is running $300 for an indoor stall, 12X12 and it is full service. $150 for a 16X32 paddock with shelter he feeds I provide the bedding in the shelter.
This all includes the use of the indoor and outdoor arenas and round pens. Also the use of the foaling stall as well, which I will need in June.
I thought the $300 was a lil steep for this area and to be locked in all of the time is not something that I would do. So we chose the paddock and pasture turn out for $150. My mare won’t be here till February but the owner of the stable was kind enough to hold a paddock for us.
What I found out in less than an hour was that it is much cheaper & less stressful to board a horse than I thought. Everything is taken care of for me except for her supplements and I would want to be the one to feed that anyway.
I don’t understand how ppl get into those problems with not having enough feed, money or what have you. I have everything budgeted out to the penny and that includes emergencies. It really isn’t that hard to do and we are doing this on one income as well. If my husband and I can do it then most other ppl can because he isn’t making any more money than the next guy.
It really boils down to priorities in most cases.
the farmer’s wife said…
“Pray tell what are you putting your 81″ blankets ON? Asian elephants?! I just bought a 72″ as the 74″ is a mite too big on our oldster who is an honest 15′. From a safe distance I’d like to see the critter that wears an 81.”
LOL My horse is a BS Paint, he is 15.3 and 1300 pounds, and that is on a vet scale. I actually do own anything from an 80 liner to an 84 waterproof sheet and they all fit. In the European style blankets he always wears an 81. And it is quite safe for you to be in close proximity to him. lol
I recently momentarily forgot to put my brain in one day and I took in a scroungy, very emaciated little Arab mare. I had seen her at a friend’s house for several months and he just couldn’t get the weight on her. He didn’t own her, he was helping someone else out that needed a place to keep her. They got her from a lady that was keeping her and another mare in a dirty little dry lot, no food, no shelter.
I gave in and went and got her. The people that originally got her out of her horrible situation eventually came up with this little mare’s papers. I did some digging and about fainted. This little mare’s father is horse named Vanadium (by Huckleberry Bey out of Balaquina-Bask dghtr and her dam is a well bred (Khemosabi, Bay El Bey) 15/16 Arab.
Both her parents are performers. The little mare herself is trained for Western Pleasure professionally.
I often wonder how such a horse came to be starving, dirty and neglected. It boggles the mind and I’m not sure how it can be stopped… not just for the gems but also for the low quality trash that is being bred with such abandon.
If it were possible on such a large scale… I think people should have to get permits to breed. An agent would come and inspect your facilities, your stock, your income… Maybe that would help. They should do that with dogs too. If it’s accidental then the owner of both horses get’s fined. Double if the owner is the same. I wish there was a way to geld all the fugly stallions. And I wish assosiations would do inspections on horses and only allow quality ones to get papers. I know too many people who bred their fugly mare because she was registered AQHA. I had to refrain from telling them that Quarter Horse’s are the most popular breed… and there are plenty that look decent without your little cute, but fugly. And one person is thinking about keeping their new colt a stallion! Gah.
blackfluffyhorses:
It’s people who fret like you do over your $20,000.00 babies who probably should be breeding : )
Your market is a bit different from the market that this baby fits in.
Now if the world were overpopulated with mediocre fluffy black horses that were in danger of starving and you couldn’t afford to feed a bunch of babies you produced or hold onto them until you found them homes – THEN you could say you were part of the problem.
The junk/salvage yards here are not filled with porche and jaguars (or even their parts!) They are filled with common/generic cars.
As for the lady who is calling out the vet to euthanize 30 or so of her horses… At least she is taking responsibility for it. She will at least know that horses she is responsible for bringing into this world are absolutely not going to suffer, be mistreated, or neglected. It’s not cheap to euthanize or dispose of that many horses.
The lady who bred my little Arab was seriously rethinking her breeding program after hearing what her little filly went through before she got to me. And she has one of the top ten sire’s in the country(not my mare’s sire).
One of my friends just called to tell me that some lady had tried to give her a mustang mare with a 6mo foal at it’s side. She’s new to horses and has a big heart. I was so proud of her when she told me that she said no. Then I was even more proud when she told me why. Seems she realizes that she has no business with anymore horses (has 2) and absolutely no business with a mustang and mustang baby. She asked me what I thought and I told her the lady would be better off just putting them both down. The lady was asking $500 for both. Ha Ha good luck. I have friends with nice horses that can’t get that for them and they’re broke AND registered.
Ack, farmer’s wife, look at this! I’m so kicking myself that I just can’t have a horse right now under any circumstances because WOW!
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1084524
Also, Ann… I’ll give you the same answer that FTFOTB gave Blackfluffyhorses… if someone isn’t breeding for quality, longevity, health and temperament in these animals, then ALL THERE WILL BE is the SDA-ridden, short-lived, prone-to-pneumonia-and-mites petshop feeder rats out there. I don’t ever want to go back to only having access to those, and I remember when that’s pretty much WHAT there was, unless you lived in California. Also, as someone who’s had one of your rats, and bred her into my peds, I can say that I hope you don’t quit on a personal level
Shows are nice, and god knows I’m happy to have ‘em here, and to judge, but I’d be doing this if they weren’t around too. God knows RMFE didn’t do us any favors with shows!!
http://www.petlink.com.au/Classifieds/sale/710978.html
Sigh – I know stopping what I do can’t stop this.(The permit reference is because of our EI problems)
Actually, if I could get my hands on one of those fugly but otherwise sound and broken in ones going for a song, it would suit me at the moment. I want something nice and quiet, gelding, short (no more than 15 hands) to ride before my babies are broken and I have to ride them. As the stallions are away, the older mares have been doing bm duty and my riding horse is retired I am a bit rusty.
But my eye just keeps straying to the unsuitable or beyond my budget. Am thinking I shall have to go and have lessons on my older stallion instead – he is quiet enough, I just don’t want to stuff him up.
(When looking for a 15 hand older quiet trail riding gelding I came very close to buying a 16.2 OTTB. If I only had one horse and didn’t have to work I’d have taken him like a shot, but I need something than can cope with being a weekender at the moment – am cutting back my hours working next year but it is pretty full on at the moment)
it is all a matter of how much freedom you are willing to give up.
i live on Iceland. here they have taken it to the extreme. we only have one breed on this island. no horses can be imported, all breeding stallions need to get approved (when breeding for registered stock).
WE do not have alot of freedom to breed what we want, but the Icelandic breed is known for an over all quality…
In Norway it is illegal (by law) to cross breed horses. IF your goal is to better a breed, you can apply for permission to bring in new blood, but said stallion would have to be an exeptional example of his breed….
it IS possible, if you are willing to have the cake without eating it too… but i have never met an American who was willing to do that…….
i give credit to the woman opting to euthanize the horses in her care instead of selling them down the road. i, too, hope though that she is not breeding any more. THAT would be unethical.
my husband has instructions that if i should die before him, that my three horses are to be humanely euthanized at home by our vet. my various horses have given me their all for over 39 years of horse-ownership. guaranteeing a safe passage to the next level is the least i can do for them.
oh, and icey, i guess you need to upgrade the class of americans you meet.
Annette said, “The junk/salvage yards here are not filled with porche and jaguars (or even their parts!) They are filled with common/generic cars.”
That is a GREAT analogy!
No point in having cake at all if you can’t eat it-just gets hard and moldy. I like my choices and freedom and I would die to protect it-my husband’s job is to die if necessary to protect our freedom. For all that we are a messy lot, we are brilliant. I am half Spanish and have spent much of my life abroad and there is no where on earth I’d rather live.
>i give credit to the woman opting to euthanize the horses in her care instead of selling them down the road. i, too, hope though that she is not breeding any more. THAT would be unethical<
She shouldn’t have bred the numbers she did to start with, if she wasn’t able to care for and keep them.
Why did she breed until she had over 40 horses?
Euth. is probably better than the alternative, but this could have been avoided alltogether and no healthy, sound horse would have to die for her stupidity.
>>oh, and icey, i guess you need to upgrade the class of americans you meet.< <
I am not an American, but chose to live here, as I prefer that to living in Germany and one of the reasons is the freedom here.
I wouldn’t want to give that up because of the stupidity of some.
the-farmer’s-wife and fugly, I can beat that, one of mine wears an 87″. His blankets are as big as my California King size bed.
Needing permits or licenses to breed horses or dogs in this country won’t ever fly. This about premise ID – - plenty of people are fighting that.
>>oh, and icey, i guess you need to upgrade the class of americans you meet.< <
I am not an American, but chose to live here, as I prefer that to living in Germany and one of the reasons is the freedom here.
I wouldn’t want to give that up because of the stupidity of some.
Your nuts I’d prefer Germany any day I lived there for a year and a half and would love to be there, but my family is here so this is where I stay.
I lived in Gemany for a total of 27 years and go back to visit and even so it’s a nice place to visit, has a lot of history, I would not want to live there. Too restricted, to much government control, too taxed, and the list goes on.
My family lives there and I go visit. Am always glad to get back to the States.
Personally a Quarter horse/Morgan is one of my favorite crosses! I have one now and she is supreme. She has nice conformation, however. Maybe they would have better luck with a better photo that shows him?
That being said, I am totally confused by the current horse market. I have a Basketweave TB that my daughter took through 4-H this year, quiet (yes, unbelievable) and I can’t find a home for him at all! This horse changed my mind about TBs: that they can be nice horses. LOL. The good news is that he is nice enough to be around that keeping him here for another season or more isn’t killing me, he is a big love. But I really thought it would be easier to move a nice horse. Well, I get little girls asking asking about him! UUGGGG.
My old 16.3 App wore an 84″ in a Big D, an 82″ in most other brands. My recently retired 16.2 TB type App wears a 78, as does my newbie – but he’s only 3.5, so I think he’s probably going to outgrow my old 78″ blankets and sheets, since he’s 16.1 and just went butt high again. His full brother is 16.2 at 4 (and still growing). What a guessing game: Dad’s a 14.2 or smaller Arab, mom’s a 17.2 Foundation/TB App! So… he’s got about two more years of growing….
Adding my encouragement to the people who breed carefully. My first dog was a shelter dog who was a purebred. I don’t know if she was conformationally a good example of her breed, but temperamentally she was amazing and 100% of what her breed standard calls for. Maybe she was from a bad breeder who got lucky with her litter, it’s impossible to know. I do know that without good breeders who try to stay faithful to standards and responsible to their stock and their customers, all horses, dogs, cats, etc., will gradually become products of lousy breeders and useless due to sickness or bad temperaments.
To use a slightly different example – in dogs, at least in my neck of the woods, you can see the effects of removing one group of ‘breeders’ from the situation. Here, spay/neuter has been very effective and almost all pets are spayed – relatively few ‘oops’ litters between family pets. Which is great, right? Sort of. It’s great in that there are fewer unwanted puppies who might end up euthanized at the county shelter, but it’s also removed the major source of average dogs from the shelter equation. Fighting and guard-bred dogs are not suitable replacements for the average non-dog-expert person wanting a family pet, and neither are the puppy mill dogs, who stand quivering and shivering in the back of every shelter I’ve ever seen. The controversial solution for many shelters is importing dogs and puppies from rural states to keep up with the demand for pet-quality dogs. Think of that on a wider scale, with all the horses, dogs, rats, whatever, in the world being the product of rescue. Not that all carelessly bred animals are trash – I’ve owned 2 dogs who were lovely though clearly not the product of breeding programs – but if you invalidate careful breeding as long as there are unwanted animals, you’re going to eventually end up with no good – healthy, sane, kind, intelligent, decent – animals.
Icey – “i have never met an American who was willing to do that…….”
You’re right, of course. Americans automatically and obsessively fight any restrictions on their activities even when said activities are clearly insane, damaging and something that only a supervillain would be interested in. Much as we might admire the highly controlled breeding animal programs of other nations, it isn’t going to happen here.
Hey ROSESR4EVER, can you post/do you have some before/after pictures of your Arab mare? What a story you have with her! I’d love to hear more about her/what you’re doing with her now.
I have an idea about why this might happen…
note: this is an observation and opinion of some cases (I am not suggesting that certain people should not own horses, nor that this is always the case).
At the feed store I work at I am the horse expert (or just the only one that knows anything), as a result I have met many people who are looking for a cheap horse for sale and hope I may be able to point them in the right direction. They tell me they cannot afford a horse over $1000. When I talk to these people, they demonstrate a lack of understanding on what it takes to own a horse. I always try and explain to them that the horse itself is the cheap part. Between tack, boarding (or feed if at home), vet care, farrier services, and all the other expenses that a horse brings with it horses can be quite expensive. I imagain that many people don’t get to talk to someone and think about all these costs before they go ahead and buy a horse. Like a 13 year old saving their dollars so they can buy a pony, assuming it will stay in their back yard, people go to the auction and pick up a cute horse. The are praised by friends an fellow horse people because they “saved” the horse from an uncertain future. But when they bring the horse home they realize that this horse costs more money than their dog, and now they reach a relization they don’t have the extra money to support the horses needs. I do not believe you need to be upper class to own horses, but I believe that if you are not you need to be smart and you need to plan before you go buy a horse… I have a bank account set aside now with $2000 (started with $1000), I have that set aside in case of a horse emergency. I know I’m not rich and if I lost my job I would not be able to pay for my horses. The money in this account would pay for feed and basic care for months, giving me time to either got a job, or allow me time to find a new suitable home for my horses if keeping them was not an option (not just dump them at an auction or give them away). This money could also serve as a way to ofset emergency vet bill costs and allow me to do more for my horses medically… the unpredictable happens and I always encourage people to consider that and plan for it so your horses welfare doesn’t go out the window when hard times hit.
Here’s one of my TB babies at 12 years old, looking good, and being trained for a new life! I am so pleased to see him!
http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1188563374
This is OT here, but I posted this late in a previous thread and wasn’t sure anyone would see it. So here it is again (sorry for being OT/thanks!):
My baby is 10 months old (tomorrow). Bought him from a breeder of whom you would all approve: excellent breeding stock, all HYPP N/N, buy-back contract, very few foals per year, tons of research into bloodlines, breeding horses with performance records/show accomplishments. Oh, and my little guy is gorgeous, too.
He was weaned at 4 months, gelded early, shipped to me at 5 1/2 months.
We handle him daily, halter, lead; brush and once-over often. He picks up his feet, stands beautifully for the farrier, and we can handle ears, eyes, mouth, tail, sheath, and take temps, without any fuss.
He spent his first couple of months under the watchful eye of an experienced babysitter gelding who has the mildest temperament and best ground manners I’ve ever seen.
We gradually introduced him to the rest of our geldings, and now they are turned out together as a peaceful herd every day, and brought in to stalls every night.
I have a good friend who is looking forward to training him, when his ground work, and later his undersaddle, time comes along. No one will ever be on his back until he’s past 3, and no one will ever stress his joints or bones as he is growing.
This is my first-ever baby. Can anyone tell me anything from your experience regarding how much of his temperament is inherited, and how much is influenced by his handling and experiences?
I’d appreciate any comments/study results/anecdotal stories you would share! My email is shepherdhill61@hotmail.com if anyone would be willing to pass on their experiences! Thanks!
“I can’t find a home for him at all! This horse changed my mind about TBs: that they can be nice horses. LOL. “
I think this thinking is part of the problem. I love thoroughbreds, I have two right now, and I know my next horse will probably be another OTTB. A lot of people however, find it hard to believe that quiet thoroughbreds exist. When I suggested to one of my good friends she should look at some OTTBs for her next horse, she told me she would never buy a thoroughbred because they are not good trail horses (mind you I trail ride my one thoroughbred all the time and he is quieter and less spooky than her current QH trail horse), I countered that and she told me that an OTTB would break down, I just had to shake my head (my trail TB is also off the track). These stereotypes run deep and prevent people from even looking at certain breeds (TB’s, arabians, ect..). When I bought an Arabian at an auction I was aproched by several people asking why I was wasting my money with a peice of crap arab. Well she was not crap, she was pretty, friendly, and smart and heck. People looking for horses need to look for temperments that fit them, not breeds they think would fit them, but of course they don’t, they see TB or arab and run the other way. You will find someone for your horse, you just need patients and good advertising.
Sally – I think it’s an equal mix. A good temperament can absolutely be inherited but bad handling can ruin it. I have a 7 month old whose parents are both sweet as sugar and he’s been well handled all of his life and honestly, he’s the easiest baby. He figures things out in a flash and just doesn’t have any “fight” in him. He’s happy to do what I want and he loves people.
kkstoop: My opinion of TBs has changed too. I thought they were all cracked out ponies who could only turn left and to me people who jump them always look like they are fighting the horse and saying how “strong” it gets over fences.
I’m now working a green TB who is an absolute babysitter. He has a very, very nice mind and has personality plus. (yes he’s all TB as Last Chance corrals knows exactly which farm he came from.)
His owner wants to find a new home for him too. As far as I’m concerned, he’s not going anywhere in this current market- I’m not hurting for hay money and if I do I can always turn off my cell phone, satellite TV, and internet.
Heck my 4 dogs cost me $130.00 a month to feed because I feed them an ok food. A horse is actually cheaper than that around here.
Thoroughbreds ARE more sensitive than some other breeds as a general rule, and I do not think they will tolerate bad riding as readily. I think this is mostly to blame for their “reputation.” That and people locking them in stalls. Thoroughbreds need turnout and lots of it, with other horses, with room to run. Give them that, and you will have a cooperative partner who is ready to work.
Aww, that little guy has a sweet face. I hope he gets saved and becomes a rock star.
As for blanket sizes… I used to ride a 17.1hh Oldenburg who wore a 84″ – and I was 5’1″! I needed a stool to blanket him, and we looked probably kind of ridiculous in the ring but man, he was my oversized soul mate. Excuse me while I go reminisce…
FHOTD:
Maximus is sensitive! But instead of fighting or blowing up, he pouts! (And swishes his tail..)
But he always has lots of room to move too and gets no grain- grass only with a handful of alfalfa in it.
I’ve never had a chance to play with a TB, but judging from the arabs I’ve gotten to train, I suspect some people don’t like them because arabs tend to be smarter than their lobotomized owners. People don’t like to be shown up by their animal in the smarts dept.
Yes I agree about Arabs but I’ll go further and say that just room to move is not enough for the Arabs I’ve worked with. They need to exercise the mind maybe even more than the body. So not only do the humans have to be smarter than the horse, the human has to have enough imagination to keep the horse interested too.
oh, i know and understand that breeding restriction will never happen “over there” and i respect and understand the resons behind it…
it was just an observation about how it is possible to restrict unnecessary and thoughless breeding, if you are willing to give up the freedoms that allow that breeding….
FHoTD said: I think it’s an equal mix. A good temperament can absolutely be inherited but bad handling can ruin it. I have a 7 month old whose parents are both sweet as sugar and he’s been well handled all of his life and honestly, he’s the easiest baby. He figures things out in a flash and just doesn’t have any “fight” in him. He’s happy to do what I want and he loves people.
Thanks, Fugly, for commenting.
My guy is quiet and sweet, curious without being shy or jumpy, and responds quietly to handling. I didn’t get to meet his dam or his sire. I AM aware that his dam is a dominant mare, and didn’t mind kicking to “protect” her baby. So I’m glad Leo was separated from her relatively early… Still, I worry that her temperament might be lurking in him, which was my reason for asking. Yet, we’ve had absolutely no indications to that effect. He has been pushy exactly twice, and we nipped that in the bud immediately each time.
I can’t believe I’m doing this. I’ve been following the blog for a long time, this is the first time I’ve posted.
I emailed her about the colt, he hasn’t been taken yet.
I live in Snohomish, WA. Anyone out there able to haul him up this way? I won’t be able to head down until the weekend, I’ll see if she’ll hold him until then.
My husband is going to kill me.
He would make a nice companion to my 18 year old gelding and maybe become a nice little trail horse.
Someone bring me to my senses please!
phe – The old joke is why don’t cowboys like Arabs and Appaloosas? Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is. (And I have an Arab/App – I am obviously outclassed mentally! ROFLOL)
CANTW82RIDE said…
I can’t believe I’m doing this. I’ve been following the blog for a long time, this is the first time I’ve posted.
Do it! Do it! I wish I knew someone coming up that way, but I don’t.
Unless his legs are on backwards he’s a super cute guy, and I bet he’d make a nice project horse. Sometimes these horses just need a chance to show what nice horses they can be.
Maybe some of the FHOTD posters around Portland or Southern Washington could help transport him?
I love TB’s. They are such rewarding horses. Some of them can be a bit hotheaded but they are tough and smart and will just keep trying for you.
I’d never breed them as performance horses (use with Warmbloods yes, but not purebred TB’s) because no one here is prepared to pay what they are worth as it is so easy to pick them up after a racing career for very little. You only have to look at our adverts for show/allroundner/performance/cheap horse and the TB’s far outweigh any other breed. So it is only worth while breeding them to sell in to racing.
My first horse was a TB, and my third, fourth and fifth. I still have Number one and number five.
robyn said…
Hey ROSESR4EVER, can you post/do you have some before/after pictures of your Arab mare? What a story you have with her! I’d love to hear more about her/what you’re doing with her now.
November 13, 2007 7:59 AM
Currently I am feeding her to the gills without trying to colic/founder her. She gained pretty rapidly at first and now is levelling off some. But she is definitely gorgeous. She is a light chestnut, flaxen mane, long full tail, a blaze on her face and four white socks. Talk about flashy. The only good thing about her being almost starved to death, you could see her confirmation VERY clearly and even with her looking like a scarecrow, I could tell she was a quality animal. This was before I even got to her papers.
She’s had her vaccinations, her feet have been done (had bad thrush) and her teeth have been floated. The vet said the poor girl’s teeth were so bad that she had gotten an ulcer in her cheek. This mare is only 6yo.
I took pics of her when I got her to my place with a disposable camera. Now I just need to get them developed and figure out how to get them on the computer and post them. I’m not very good at the computer thing.
My plan for her is to take her to my trainer and see if she has any talent for showing Western Pleasure, or something else that suits her. If not she can just be trail horse, although I don’t think she’s been ridden outside of an arena. She’s entered into Sweepstakes, so I figure might as well try to show.
I need to get some more recent pictures of her, as she is looking much better. When my friend seen what I had brought home, she took one look at her and started bawling, asking me why anyone would do that to an animal? I didn’t have an answer for her.
The important part is that she is safe now.
Sandy M said…
phe – The old joke is why don’t cowboys like Arabs and Appaloosas? Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is. (And I have an Arab/App – I am obviously outclassed mentally! ROFLOL)
November 13, 2007 10:37 AM
True story, and very funny.
What I find even MORE funny is that several folks I know have used their arabs for calf roping, heading (well, their half arabs… most arabs are just too small to be sound head horses), heeling, team penning and ranch work.
Cookie- I can haul him south of Portland if you want him. I saw his had while looking through Craigslist the other night. I have the room and the hay but not the money for training.
oops! add
E-mail me if you can’t get her to hold the colt til the weekend…we might be able to go get him faster than that.
fancy-rat — THANKS! I always like hearing good things about my rats’ descendants.
(for anyone still reading, we’ve known each other online since about 1995.)
That mare is really drool-worthy! Here are some of mine, since we’re just playing:
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1108342 (might not jump, and a bit pricey; otherwise he’s pretty and only 25 miles away! And I may not be jumping anymore myself
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1091801
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1068154 (bad photo but he’s a Pony Club horse…)
I think that someone will definitely save this colt. I know that someone near me has e-mailed the lady and I volunteered free trimming and a trainer volunteered some manners training. Plus all the people on here that have e-mailed about him.
cantw82ride…. I offered hauling but I’m sorry, you are 3 1/2 hours north of me and he is 3+ hours south of me. Maybe a stretch of it….
Has anyone had a response from this owner? I would like to hear that he has a home.
Thanks RosesR4Ever–sounds like you really found a “diamond in the rough”–I hope she continues to do well for you!
>>>>> I AM aware that his dam is a dominant mare, and didn’t mind kicking to “protect” her baby. So I’m glad Leo was separated from her relatively early… Still, I worry that her temperament might be lurking in him, which was my reason for asking.
The following is strictly my own experience and opinion–
I like alpha mares as mommas.
I have observed that a foal born out of a dominant(alpha) mare in a herd is often markedly friendlier and braver than average because momma shows confidence in the herd, and manages social situations with grace and speed, and baby picks up on it.
Also IMO many if not most alpha mares are somewhat more strict with their foals than more shy or submissive mares might be, so the baby raised by an alpha often has BETTER manners than one mothered by a very docile momma who is indulgent/unsure/lets her foal get away with murder.
More important to me than her herd status—Do you know how the dam responds to people? Usually even a horse that is dominant in their horsey herd will submit to human control very well if the human is confident and perceived as the “leader”. IMO alpha mares sometimes understand this hierarchy more clearly, readily and safely than their more subdued (and sometimes more paranoid, less secure) herdmates.
Has anyone who contacted the owner of the yearling heard anything back yet? Just wondering if there was any update.
Decorum’s friend is picking him up tomorrow. I am sure we will get lots of good updates!
That is wonderful, he is one lucky little boy.
Did someone “REALLY” pick up this little guy? I had made contact with the owner on 11/14/07 am, and they were suppose to call me back with the address of the stable. I never heard anything back!! I left a second message yesterday evening advising I had everything set up on my end, I just needed the address and I wanted them to make sure the stable knew I was coming. I called again this morning around 9:30am, still no call back!! I’m not sure what is going on, but I pray that someone else did actually pick him up. Please, please let me know if you did!!
Thanks.
gaited4me