Good pictures, bad pictures – photographing babies
Nov 09 2007
I am often asked for advice on how to stay off this blog. While obviously, breeding quality horses and having a farm that doesn’t look like a scene out of Deliverance helps a lot, photography is another big factor. Now, you don’t have to hire a pro to get great horse pictures, but you do have to learn some basic skills if you are marketing your product on the Internet – and that’s what you’re doing, if you’re a horse breeder with a web site.
Today I’m going to talk a little bit about photographing weanlings, because I hear people complain that their weaners won’t pose, and you can’t get good pictures of them, and blah blah. To begin with, you have to know what you are trying to show off for your breed and type of horse. If you have a stock type breed (AQHA, APHA, ApHC), most likely you’re going to want to show off the hip. If you have an Arabian, you’ll want to show off an elegant neck and head, and so on. And you are advertising here – so choose angles that minimize the horse’s weaknesses (of course I hope there aren’t too many of those, if it’s a baby you bred!)
First rule of thumb - Absolutely nothing looks good from this angle. Just avoid the head-on, looking-down shot…it makes the head look humongous and the body look tiny and weak. This is a well-bred AQHA colt of cutting horse lines, but this angle makes him look an awful lot like a grade Quarab. In general, don’t take pictures from any angle above the horse. You want to be level with the horse’s side/chest or slightly below.
Now here’s a free shot of a baby Morgan that turned out beautifully. When your baby is standing with the near (to the camera) leg slightly back, that shows off the hip the best. The baby is alert and looking at something, not half-asleep in a milk coma. You can see from this picture that we have a baby with excellent balance, a killer shoulder, and a pretty, high set neck as is appropriate for her breed and type. (And yes, babies who are slightly over at the knee like this do straighten out. It’s only if they’re back at the knee that I worry.) This is a young foal presented very well for sale. I will also note that Momma is in exceptionally good condition and that counts for a lot. Nothing’s worse than seeing a nice baby standing in front of his ribby mother who looks like she hasn’t seen the farrier or a tube of dewormer in 10 years.
Sometimes it is best to photograph your baby while it is still in the cute, cuddly stage and before it enters the awkward almost-a-yearling stage. This seller missed the cute express and is now stuck with the gawky stage.
That said, I am still pretty sure I could have taken a cuter sale picture of this filly than this one. I think there may be a reasonably attractive head hiding in the bucket, and I do not think her neck is actually as short as this angle shows it to be. This is a case where standing her up, getting her ears forward, and applying some Show Sheen could have done wonders. As shown, this filly looks way too much like a goat, and her hind leg position is not doing her topline any favors.
It would be difficult to find a worse pose for this filly. The irony is that the ad touts her as a halter prospect. Um, no. That hip doesn’t have to look as bad as it does from this bad angle, but it is not the hip of a halter horse.
If I were going to photograph this filly, I would set her up straight and then make sure to stretch out her neck with her head in profile so that her neck looks longer. It’s already low set, ideal for a western pleasure prospect. If her near leg were back, her hip would look better. If her legs are straight, I might just default to the three-quarter from the front shot – but taken LEVEL with the horse, not looking down. You might have to play around with different angles, but there is a way to photograph this filly so that she looks a lot better than this!
This is a very pretty picture of an AQHA halter quality weanling. He is in perfect condition, posed correctly and beautifully presented. What a cute face, and you can see the personality in it. I like baby pictures where they may be spit-shined and ready to show, but the face still looks like that of a curious, cute baby.
Best of all, he is HYPP N/N. Kudos to his breeders!
OK, this is a yearling but I had to point it out because it is a picture that makes the filly’s left front look like it’s twisted underneath her and deformed. I am fairly sure she is not like that in real life, but the angle is awful. People, don’t sabotage your horses like this.
She is shiny and otherwise looks great – take a better picture, please!
And then we have this filly. While more feed and some deworming will help, my best advice on this yearling is wait a year so that you can cover up as much as her as possible with some really pretty tack. While photoshop could help her every bit as much as it helps Kelly Clarkson, there’s no way to genuinely take a good picture of this one!Structurally, this really ISN’T such a bad filly. But condition-wise, she shouldn’t even be pictured at this point. You are just embarrassing your breeding program by putting this picture on the web.
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Cindy, your girl is wicked cute! (wicked = really, really! in New-England-speak) I love her substance — without being at all coarse, there’s plenty of horse there. No weeds in her garden. Her sire is to die for.
I’m another that has a hard time judging the QH’s because I’m a “neck” person (as opposed to a “hip” person I guess). But the only think I found odd about the good QH weanling was he really does look like he has big ears.
As for the Morgan baby – now that is my kind of horse and that Morgan Stallion Luke – yummo. Where it really came home to me is the garland picture. I always look at the ones of ridden QH’s and they alway look odd to be. But its the necks. My own paint mare if you said what was the worst thing about her (other than long pasterns) I’d say the neck because it dose not have that lovely natural arch in it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but you can still tell the difference between a healthy, clean well presented youngun and a wormy, scruffy pot bellied one.
Of course the other cheats way if you can’t take standing photo (which I have a lot of difficulty with) is you take them moving, it can hide a multitude of sins, and if you have sports shoot on the camera all the better.
I have/had some rescues that originally came from the farm in that video.
One is buried in my pasture, one still stands in my pasture, and another I sold to a permanent home.
However, they weren’t rescued from his farm, they were rescued from the people that bought from him.
Law enforcement was no help, they did nothing. I told them I witnessed a lousey horse rubbing her scabby body against the metal hay ring (that did indeed have black hay in it, so that was proof they were being fed) since it was thirty-below-zero that day(actual temp. not windchill), the oozing scabs instantly froze to the metal and pulled chunks of skin/meat off every time she moved. Law enforcement told the owner he should have a vet look at the “horse without hair”
the horse died.
The ex-wife took the horses I ended up with and sent them to my house for boarding. She gave one to me, one colicked as a result of her lack of care and was euthenized and the other is still being boarded here.
Why do these poor horses have to suffer? Why don’t people care?
Ah, I’ve been resisting temptation, but what the heck:
If I’d ever wanted to sell Nick, my late great QH, as a kid’s horse, I’d have used this photo:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1335485561000735275RJdzVs
taken in the spring of his 23rd year. Even though he’s not spiffed up, the conformation shows well, and the disposition comes through loud and clear. (QH lovers: He was almost all Wiescamp on his top side, with War Leo, Hollywood Gold, and King Ranch in his mare’s pedigree. Did very well in AQHA shows as a hunter in his salad days.)
For a conventional conformation shot, this would work, at age eleven (well, okay, the background coulda been better):
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1000805413000735275
Still better because the background’s better, at age 16 (and placed first in Horse & Rider’s Conformation Clinic with this photo):
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
1000805415000735275
My TB can look good (well, to me, anyway
)even in a bad pose and covered with mud:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2132772980000735275igZBOl
As it happens, I’ve never been able to get a classic conformation shot that flatters him, not least because he’s a big-bodied boy (the term “well-spring ribs” was invented for him) and the fact that he’s over at the knees (though at age 15 he’s never had any soundness problems from that, despite an eight-year career as a field hunter) as you can see here:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2481990870000735275KUmhHE
So again, if I were to sell him (ain’t ever gonna happen), I’d go for an unconventional shot that nevertheless showed him to advantage:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2329921230000735275MDtCYg
Hey, you wouldn’t even notice he’s over at the knees based on that shot, would you?
Here’s another TB I owned. Now, the hind legs are NOT properly positioned for a conformation shot, and that forward-sticking leg should make his butt look lousy. But his conformation was good enough to overcome that bad pose. Having the head turned to face the camera does make his neck look shorter than it was, yet it captures his personality. In fact, he looks prettier in that shot than he actually was — in real life he was a bit plain-headed.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2044599470000735275rxMaGZ
Again, not a conventional sale photo, but if you saw that, wouldn’t you at least want to see more?
Jessica,
Caring takes brain cells. Plain and simple.
I wonder, could that creepy horse starving guy in MN have a case of hoarding syndrome? He is just incapable of seeing the damage he is doing and cannot part with any of them? Although it sounds like he will sell his poor starvlings if asked, so maybe I’m all wet…
Oh my, this one fits right in with todays topic, is this a llama?
http://denver.craigslist.org/grd/473573888.html
that colt’s fetlock looks bigger than his hoof
I have to do this with my nice horse to show you that it DOES make a difference.
Here he is in different poses showing what good/bad photography can do to a nice horse.
Headshots:
BAD
GOOD
Standing:
BAD
GOOD
Moving:
BAD
GOOD
None of these are spectacular photos anyway, but you can really see a difference even in teh pictures from my “spend 3 hours in that paddock because I AM going to get a nice picture of my horse, dammit” days in which the photos are for my own use and enjoyment only and never to be used to advertise the horse.
And even though he is at a good weight and in good condition overall, the bad photos really leave something to be desired.
Thanks so much for this post, Fugly. It’s one of my biggest peeves when I see crappy sale pictures of not only babies but horses in general.
PS – the first moving photo is supposed to be this one: BAD not the one I linked to in the original post.
The one linked is another potential BAD pose because he looks like a malformed quarter horse.
Just thought I’d fix it as he is clearly not moving in that photo.
Nice try, Hypno-Toad, but you aren’t going to make owner of the FHOTD any time soon with any of those pictures, good or “bad”. But don’t be discouraged. If you keep trying, you too can make your horse look as fugly as the best(worst?) of them. Try when he is half shed out, and has just rolled in the mud. Take him down the road and photograph in the paddock of your nearest BYB, or rent a trampoline, a motorhome, and some rusty appliances for the background. Good luck.
I am not sure if that was a compliment, but I never said he was overly fugly. Lol. I simply meant to point out that even with a nice horse, it can look pretty gross if improperly photographed.
Granted, his version of gross and the fugly gross we usually see here are two WAY different levels, but still… Photography does make a difference.
HT, he is a very nice looking horse, and you have pulled up some good examples of how a picture can make a difference. That is my excuse for photos of me! Still, you do have a long way to go to be in the same ballpark as some of the pictures that people use to market their horses. And I suspect that your photography skills are not going in that direction at all. If I was shopping, I likely wouldn’t rule out your horse on the basis of any of those photos, but it certainly is a pleasure to see the good ones. And a nice little lesson on photography.
Now what not to do when taking photos is to do it with your other half. You will have some great fights. One is photographing and the other poor bugger is trying to stand the horse. Take it now, take it now. No, the eras aren’t right, move that leg, etc…. LOL
This is an example that I quite like. it is a yearling arabian. Not the most typey as such, but it got her sold.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aquariuspark/939669815/in/set-72157601079364567/
Hope you like it.
Just Kreeping Up said…
Take him down the road and photograph in the paddock of your nearest BYB, or rent a trampoline, a motorhome, and some rusty appliances for the background. Good luck.
November 9, 2007 11:45 PM
(This is generated more towards the general public then just Just Kreeping Up.)
I almost find that offensive, because I have a trampoline in my backyard and a motorhome in our main pasture.
Does that make me a redneck?
Fuck, no – it just means I have childern with hobbies other then horses and that I like to travel.
…
I know you all hate these “rednecks” but we live in a modern time and, for me at least, in a urban area. I can’t park our RV anywhere else without having to worry about it rolling down hill, it’s the only flat place we have to park it.
Please, for the love god, limit the redneck cracks to when you actually have PROOF that they are rednecks XP
And actually, if you look through my photobucket, you’ll see the RV in the background – but because I have a top of the line camera and lens, it doesn’t overall ruin the photo.
Examples;
Ranger, MFT Gelding, infront of RV
(My sister cut his mane off incorrectly.)
Breeze, Quarab, Trotting infront of play set
Instead of listing the crap not to take photos infront of, trying instead saying something intelligent like taking them in front a cluttered background, instead of a natural-horse-like one, is going to make the horse seem less valuable/possibly more fugly then it actually is.
/endrant.
i think the point is that a cluttered background never IMPROVES the picture, however there isn’t always anything you can do about it. This is where photoshop skills come in. If I were selling a horse and was unable to find a nice background, you bet your ass I would photoshop a new one in behind it.
Original
Edited
starrynightxxi said…
i think the point is that a cluttered background never IMPROVES the picture, however there isn’t always anything you can do about it. This is where photoshop skills come in. If I were selling a horse and was unable to find a nice background, you bet your ass I would photoshop a new one in behind it.
Excellent clone-out job!
Only problem is, there arn’t enough people out there with that kind of skill or paitence to do one of such quality – which leads to the whole “OMFG, PHOTOSHOPPED!” screams ><
And the whole part of photoshopping pictures like that is to make it look like they haven’t been edited at all – you’ll find that most don’t past the test >>;;
Either or, if you can’t edit the picture, or have no eye for photography – find someone/hire someone who does; the horse will sell better and quicker.
Don’t know if any one mentioned this already or not, haven’t finished reading all posts.
Aside from getting them in a decent pose…If you are marketing a foal (or an adult for that matter) PLEASE get their feet trimmed. Or do what the halter set-up people did and stand the horse/foal in grass so no one can see the feet. With the length of toe on several of those foals, its no wonder their legs look that way. They can’t get them placed underneath themselves properly and still be able to stand up.
If a baby gets to an age for pictures they are also at the age where their feet should be handled.
BTW…On yesterday’s subject of brindles, I may have one. Will I get her tested…probably not…don’t plan on breeding her (she’s kinda fugly), and if she IS a chimera, she won’t pass that on anyway…
http://community.webshots.com/user/anthrobia
starrynightxxi-
WOW!
That edited pic is incredible! The original was excellent quality to begin with, IMO, but I can’t believe how proficient you are at editing. Here is what I noticed after lots of back-and-forth comparing (I would not be able to tell at ALL that the edited pic wasn’t natural, for what its worth). How many did I get??
Barn and lightpole in background removed, obviously
Color enhanced to make the red richer
Drip on left nostril removed
Right rein “fixed” so that it drapes like the left- how did you get that so detailed? With the metal buckle at the bit and everything??
The eye looks bigger and more “bright”-?
I swear the leather looks oiled too…
Chin looks slightly tighter- like an extra bit of skin was removed
Tiny bit of the length of forelock over right eye removed
Profile of jawline smoothed out- original has a few little bumps
Protruding right eye trimmed down
That’s all I got, again, huge kudos to you for such a fantastic job. I’m no expert, but this is the best editing I’ve ever seen.
!!!
Totally Off topic
But Norman Mailer died and I found this in the news piece on his Death:
The book — noteworthy for Mailer’s invention of the word “fug” as a substitute for the then-unacceptable four-letter original — was a best-seller, and Mailer returned home to find himself anointed the new Hemingway, Dos Passos and Melville.
It seems fitting that since we use his creation as part of our lexicon that we should be made aware of the word Fug’s origin.
Rest in Peace Mr. Mailer.
Lori
Sorry, Xloosends, the quality of the camera doesn’t affect the quality of the composition. That RV is HUGELY distracting in the picture. Today’s blog is about taking pictures of horses when you’re trying to sell them. And it’s hard to concentrate on the horse when other bizarre elements of any kind are in the picture. I realize you probably took that shot for your own collection and not to sell the horse – but if it was a sale picture I’d have to ask what in the h— you were thinking.
You don’t need to hire a pro photographer for a bunch of bucks to take a decent enough sale picture. But you do need to model the pic after what the pros do *if you are trying to make the maximum impact on the buyer*. It helps to look at a major breed publication, web site, or sale catalog and see how the horses are posed, groomed, and how the picture is composed.
It’s all about marketing, which is selling the sizzle. Don’t make it hard on the potential buyer to figure out what you’re trying to say with the picture, that is, what you are selling.
Just thought I’d chip in, as a photographer myself. You DO NOT need a 120mm lens to get a good shot. I get wonderful, high quality, well composed pic with my camera, which is a Canon Rebel X, film, with a zoom lens that goes from 35-80mm. I’m not saying this is the only lens to use. In fact, I want some macro lenses and some higher level lenses. There are even some Professional (rad:paid) photographers that take all of thier shots with a disposable camera (I know, sound impossible, but if you have a visual defect where you can’t focus…). The camera does a lot, but more important is your knowledge of how to use it, knowing what your preferences are for lighting, and what you are trying to do with the photo. You also don’t need to take a billion photos to get a good one, though it does help. I was taught, and found for myself (still living in a film age, I don’t have a decent digital camera, and there are many things I prefer film for), that for every roll of film you shoot, don’t expect more then 1 or 2 good shots. Remember, this is only 24-36 shots per roll. And I get a decent photo every time. If you really want to get a great idea of where and how to photograph, go to a local college and take a photography or digital photography course. But again, it’s all in your knowledge.
Should say (read: paid). Sorry.
I agree that you have to know what you are doing and I have gotten fairly decent shots with a disposable camera, but I still prefer to use a telephoto and this includes with my film camera.
But I see an awful lot of big head, small body shots, or big butt shots which would have been improved by a longer lens.
This isn’t on topic, but I just ran across a horrible redneck BYB ad on Equine.com
“Lady has had 3 colts, she is natural black, 10yr. 50%/50% Belgin/Standard bred. great on trails, good at packing excellent dissposition, great with grandkids . has an April colt50% walking,25%belgin,25%standardbred”
Is there a way to get the links, photos, tiny url, etc. posted to open up in a new window. It is pretty tedious to open one up, then have to come back to the blog and have to scroll through to find where I was. Shows up a lot more here, where we are all sharing out pics.
Lynne- I open up a new tab on my browser for copy/pasting non-clickable links. For html links, right-click, it will give you the option to open in a new window or tab (if your browser supports them).
I have a quick question. I realize I am day behind in the postings and the likelyhood of this being answered is slim, but I’ll give it a try. You guys mentioned Impressive and the N/N thing
I ride thoroughbred racehorses for a living and recently purchased a quarter horse pony for me to mess around on in afternoons. It turns out, he is related to Impressive and is N/H. He is a gelding. Stupid me had no clue what it meant because I have never done anything with QHs, and merrily bought the horse. He’s never shown any problems. Do all horses that are N/H have the disease or can some just be carriers and never show signs?
Heather said…
Barn and lightpole in background removed, obviously – obviously ;0)
Color enhanced to make the red richer – yep, though he really is that color. It pops more than the first which is quite dull.
Drip on left nostril removed – check
Right rein “fixed” so that it drapes like the left- how did you get that so detailed? With the metal buckle at the bit and everything?? – for the looped bit, I just copy/pasted the left rein and stretched it. The buckle I painted in from memory of how they look.
The eye looks bigger and more “bright”-? – This is on account of the brighter colors, plus some dodging (tool that makes things brighter/lighter) on the reflection. The eye isn’t actually any larger
I swear the leather looks oiled too… – see above
Chin looks slightly tighter- like an extra bit of skin was removed – the head has actually been moved higher up into the image, the only thing removed from the jaw are some whiskers. It appears smaller because of the different background
Tiny bit of the length of forelock over right eye removed – yeah, i have to fix this yet..
Profile of jawline smoothed out- original has a few little bumps – check
Protruding right eye trimmed down – gah, that thing’s a bother, haven’t been able to get it to look quite right yet…
Dunkey- your horse can have HYPP attacks even with only one dose of the gene. If I were you, I’d get with your vet and work out a nutrition plan to help keep the problem to a minimum.
For people hoping that they’re not wandering into redneck territory, as long as you aren’t these guys, you’re probably ok.
http://www.ejb.com/video/17455/Patches_is_the_coolest_horse.html
“Patches, go get me a beer!” XD
Neb -
Nice horse in the video, but I was dizzy after the first 30 seconds! A good ides is to be at one end of the arena or area the horse is being filmed. If you can find helpers, have them out of camera range at each end, keeping the horse moving. I couldn’t finish watching the video. Horse looks very wel taken care of, though.
lynne: (re. my horse sale vid) Sorry it made you dizzy! lol That was definitely a concern on my part, but I felt it was more important to stay “zoomed in” on the horse so a prospective buyer could watch his movement. This doesn’t work if the animal is filling the screen for only 1/3 of the time and a little blob in the distance the rest of the time. Also, I do not film and longe the horse at the same time! The owner did that, and stayed behind me as I turned. There was some footage where she was accidentally in the frame, but I cut it out.
If you had watched the whole clip, you would have seen the footage shot in an indoor arena with two different riders: the (then) owner and a little girl, demonstrating that “even a child” can ride this boy!
Anyway, I’d love to get some more feedback. Maybe I’ll post the thing over on the board…
Thanks!
Thanks starrynight!
I’ll have to remember the dodging on the eye reflection- very subtle but does make a difference.
By the way I stayed up waaaay too late looking through your Deviant Art stuff- I especially liked the picture of the dog being kicked at by the hind leg of the chestnut horse (because that is SO my animals at times) and the various pictures of the reining horses- where was that show? BTW I showed IHSA too for a while… weird but good experience
I’m on the west coast though and didn’t go higher than state stuff.
oh dear, heather, i think you may have wandered into someone else’s gallery as I don’t have any pictures of reining or a dog being kicked -lol-
I went to nationals one year with the IHSA. knocked over a cone during my pattern and got disqualified. Apparently i was going to place until that happened so needless to say i was not pleased.
– blank stare—
huh.
I *must* have stayed up too late!
Not to totally make an ass of myself- I just re-checked your account and I did see a lot of really cool pictures and spent a good bit of time there, but somehow switched over to another gallery… but I found out who! Lil-Mugen (maybe you had a link someplace?) with the reining and dog pictures
Dog kick picture
My favs of yours- the small series of the chestnut warmblood getting loose at inspection, the dog Taz (my horse’s name is Taz!), the foals in funky poses, and “The Eye” with the blue Paint Horse eye. A lot more too… great fun
thanks! little mugen is on this site, actually, that’s xloosends.
the “warmblood” is an Irish Sport Horse stallion. As you can see, quite athletic -lol-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjubla/sets/72157603090326103/
I would really appreciate any input on the conformation of our new baby… I just took these this past weekend, and feel as though I got one or two OK shots of her. I was thinking of you Fugly when I was taking them! No, we didn’t breed for her, her mom was a rescue (now with us forever) and was pregnant when we got her out of an auction. Baby is going to be a forever with us as well. I would just like to get a sense of what I’m looking for with her…I think she looks ‘nesty’…Thanks in advance!
I think that taking pictures of babies is really really hard work. Thank GOD for digital cameras – it took about 5000 shots of my 2005 colt before I got this one:
http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/17425/1401719809039146725S600x600Q85.jpg
i love morgans
i think that baby just made me swoon
gorgeous!
i’m a photographer on the side of whatever the hell else i’m doing at any given time, and this page really highlighted some of the things i’ve been working toward with my equine pics too!