But if you are going to feed your young horses…
Nov 02 2007
2. Once you got ‘em so tired that they are swaying and have their feet splayed out for support, that’s the time to get on ‘em with no halter. There ain’t nothin’ that impresses those ole scaredy cat lady customers like ridin’ ‘em with nothin’ on!
3. Look, he’s a couch! See all them coils of rope left underneath his feet? This is what we call larning to ground tie! Either he’ll stand still or he’ll get wound up and fall on the ground and larn him a real good lesson.
I shore hope I don’t break my sunglasses if he does that. The were ten dollars at the souvenir store in Vegas and I ain’t sure when I’m gonna get back there agin.
4. Hey everybody, watch this! I’m King of the Hill!
Damn this is thirsty work. Kin one of y’all bring me a beer? Don’t give thet colt no drink yet. He’s gotta larn him a lesson about how he acted afore we took the pitchers. I’m gonna leave him out here in the sun a couple more hours. By the end of the week, I bet even that ole lady who owns him kin ride him!
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angel_with_a_broken_halo said…
Totally OT but I have been trying to find out the truth about jumping Draft horses.
I remember some years ago seeing a clydesdale doing showjumping on TV. And this is when I was little, before Animal Planet or any of those shows, so it wasn’t just some little jumper show, though I believe it was only exhibition and not competitive.
We know a Parelli Princess or Parasite (they both fit) with GAITED horses. She will even tell you, her horses will not pass whatever level it is, that you have to do flying lead changes. Gaited horses cannot do them, so you essentially eliminated them all in one shot. No moving up thelevels for you!
What type of training eliminates a group of horses for not physically being able to do a manuever?
Um, there are plenty of gaited horses that absolutely *can* do flying changes. WTF? Where’d she get the idea that gaited automatically=no changes? (Of course, you do have to train for them. Maybe that’s the problem.)
Methinks if the trainer and the horse are both so sweaty it looks like they ran through the sprinkler, then perhaps the trainer needs to rethink how they were explaining things to the horse. It’s like my mom and Spanish-speaking people. Saying the same thing louder will not induce understanding. So it is with training a horse. If your method is not working, step back and think through where in the process the horse just isn’t getting it, and explain it a different way.
I’m still boggled as to why some people think it’s necessary to sit back on a horse’s haunches or stand on them. Sack em’ out, fine, but jeesus, don’t put yourself in a position that’s going to get your stupid ass killed.
Someone posted here, not too long ago that the draft breeds bone density is not that of say an Arab or QH. I can’t imagine all that weight (horse + rider + tack) landing on the other side time and again can be good for a breed with an already seemingly compromised set of ‘landing gear’.
I know a woman who recently purchased a paint horse as a jumper prospect. While he may be a nice horse, with a good temperment, cute face, clean legs, good conformation, and all. He has small feet in comparison to the rest of his body. It wouldn’t suprise me in the least if he is done before he really even begins.
I’m confused, that horse’s pedigree looked all arab to me, just based on the names, but he’s supposed to be half arab, and… i don’t recall arabs having the champagne gene…
oh i found it, i’m just blind. get a load of his dam! http://www.champagnehorses.net/hmtk1.gif
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-38935
Lookey-thar. I dun got me a dun fee-ord and bred it to that thar quarter horse. Woo-doggies! Aint that a pretty baby. Dun put my 6 year old up thar. Now she’s all broke out! Don’t need no god-darn helmets because she is all broke out. Did I mention that thar quarter horse was John Hancock bred. Got some good foundation on ‘er!
What the heck? Seriously, who breeds a Fjord to a foundation QH? I just think that is going to be one lazy horse. I love Fjords because they are very, very smart without the spook. I love Qh’s, too, but they aren’t the brightest horses at times like an Arab would be. It’s going to be lazy and slow and weird looking. LOL. That filly needs some weight on her, too.
Get people off her back – most importantly – KIDS!
CityDog- She has an older Walker gelding and a walker cross gelding that I think was crossed with a MFT. He gaited, but it wasn’t the normal running walk or the fox trot- it was inbetween, but still quite smooth.
I know walkers canter- so I would think they also could do flying changes, maybe quite to the standard as a reiner, but they have the same 4 legs so why not?
Apparently The KING Parasite told her they (gaited horses) cannot do flying changes, but her horse is extremely agile and athletic enough that HE may be the only one KP has ever seen that was able to pull it off.
I know a gal who has been jumping her purebred Belgian for years. He’s about 16 hands, i.e., not a really BIG horse for a Belgian, but he is round and firm and fully packed with enormous feet. She only rarely jumps him higher than 2’6″ – 2’9″. She is short and slightly chubby – they match each other really well. I would not choose to jump a draft horse, but she has done so and he has stayed sound. She has JUST started to have his hocks injected (he was never lame, but was acting a little stiff/reluctant) at age 14. She says she will probably retire him to be a trail horse next year.
phe- Sack em’ out, fine,…
No, no, no, no, no. In the NH world the word is desensitize. You have to desensitize them to everything. I Hate that fucking word! Is that because the human doesn’t have de sense to tie his own dam shoes? Must be where the crocs come in handy.
The ONE good thing I can say for the NH movement, (and yes I equate it to a bowl movement because they are all full of shit, IMO) is this, It has probably saved a good number of horses from getting the HOLY SHIT beat out of them from Asshats like in yesterdays YouTube clip.
Think about it. Which is worse? Yesterdays example… or some of these folks who work their horses and may never ride them, but at least they aren’t flipping over, flipping out, and can usually be handled for vaccinations, worming and hoof care. I would say most have their feet trimmed, by a barefoot specialist of course, but they are still getting done.
Maybe they were confused on training methods. I know a lot of people train the rocking horse canter (which is apparently a really slow gallop/hand gallop, not a canter).In any event, just because they gallop slowly doesn’t make them incapable of cantering, let alone a flying lead change. >.>
I figure they thought that the crooked legged filly could be bred if she can’t be rode, when she grows up, cause she’s a black and white paint.
She should have been euthanized at birth, and the mare never bred again. That is just sad, and stupid. Not everything born needs to live.
While I think we all agree that the original, intended purpose of the draft breeds was heavy labor (plowing, carrying knights in armor, etc.), I don’t think they are conformationally prohibited from jumping just because they are large. A draft with a good shoulder, good pasterns, etc. should be able to hold up to moderate jumping as well as a Thoroughbred or something else.
Are they going to jump the big stuff? Probably not. But a LOT of people who jump are happy with something that plops around 2’3 forever and doesn’t kill them, and for that market niche, I can see a draft or part draft doing just fine.
I do not, however, know about the bone density issue. It could be true that their bones are less dense.
To me, based upon my own experience riding drafts, the hardest thing would be getting them motivated to jump. I rode this girl’s Perch not that long ago, and OMG, wore out my legs trying to get a moderate working trot out of it. It had all the energy level of a 350 lb. housewife watching General Hospital on the couch. Forget jumping, I couldn’t get a canter.
while I don’t know where that dude is from or what time of year the pictures were taken, it’s conceivable that the horse got all lathered up after a mere 10 or 20 minutes of work. I bought a horse in the heart of the south and it was 110 and 90%+ humidity the day I picked up my horse. I rode her for the first time that day and we were both absolutely soaked after 10 minutes.
so while I don’t condone leaving large piles of rope around your horse’s feet, I find it plausible that he did not, in fact, work the horse to death before performing his acrobatics on it. (not that that condones the acrobatics or anything…)
emilia said…
“Are there many English riders out there who use NH methods, or is it really just a western thing??”
Yes Emily, even here in Australia, where the majority of riders prefer the ‘English’ style (although there does seem to be an increase in the last few years in American ‘Western’ riding), there are plenty of gullible newbies that are sucked in by Parelli type NH ‘trainers’. And I would have to agree that the majority don’t ride there horses – just lead em around.
Now if antone is interested in someone who really knows how to ‘train’ (gee someone who actually has some ‘book learnin’ on how horses brains function and ‘learn’) go here:
http://www.aebc.com.au/home
Andrew McLean
PhD (Equine cognition and learning), BSc (zoology), Dip Ed
Andrew McLean developed and manages the Australian Equine Behaviour Centre, the most internationally recognised horse training and behaviour modification centre in Australia.
Andrew McLean holds a PhD in horse training psychology, has been an accredited horseriding coach for over 20 years and has written top-selling books and numerous articles. A past winner of the Gawler CCI***(3DE), he has also represented Australia in the Trans Tasman Cup, competed at state and national events in FEI level dressage and eventing and has also showjumped to Grand Prix level.
In great demand as a trainer, coach and speaker, Dr McLean currently lectures at universities and conferences around the world. He teaches regularly at three UK universities and the Copenhagen Veterinary School and conducts annual clinics in Belgium and the USA. He continues to coach riders and train horses, as well as educating other coaches in correct technique and training practice.
Dr McLean is a member of the International Society of Applied Ethology, an elite academic group of cognitive ethologists. His articles have been published in academic journals and textbooks and he regularly delivers lectures and demonstrations on the psychology of horses and equitation science.
Sorry for typos (I HATE typos) but in a hurry – have horse screaming for their breakfast – it’s Sat morning here in Oz
AHHHH did it again!!!!!
Whilst I can not stand the Parelli and Natural Horsemanship preachers, I do think there is some merit in some of their methods. Being a jack of all trades (but master of none!) Ponyclubber I have had a go at a few different training methods. Recently I found myself with a 4YO OTT TB, raced but not educated, and so began (with alot of instruction) educating my first horse. Things were going along great but I was not getting the respect on the ground with the methods I was using. Cue a local “Natural” bloke, who came along and taught me a few basic points. Much happier with how my girl is now behaving on the ground, and she was happy and eager to learn it, ears being pricked forward the whole time.
At the same time, I wouldnt try it with my already established 12 YO mare. Why bother? Shes fine the way she is, I’m not going to jump in their with ropes and sticks just because its the “natural” way.
Honestly, in my mind, there is no “Natural Horsemanship”. There is just horsemanship, and useless rope twirlers.
4thehorses –look how beat up his round pen panels look, and it looks like he is jumping up and down on the “couch” as he sits there
I can’t agree more. I do think the round pen panels make up a riding rink… look at the pictures put together. I may be wrong though…
And I’m sure that the majority of people nowadays who look at pictures like that seen nothing wrong with that.
—————
On a forums I’m a member of, there was a person who didn’t think the Sonny video was abusive.
I’ve seen people with really skinny horses who comment on how beautiful the horse is looking, how nice their muscles (actually poverty lines) were coming along.
It’s crazy. My non-horsey grandmother could tell the poverty lines were not righh…but some people just can’t seem to “see” what it is that is WRONG.
I am a fan and supporter of Good Horsemanship! =P
I have been to David Simmons and Greg Cook horsemanship clinics (they follow very similar principles imo to John Lyons) as well as watched videos and read books from dressage to showjumping to eventing to general horse breaking and training (Tom Roberts = <3) and just go with what I find works, what I agree with and like the most etc.
Honestly the BEST training method is common sense. Of course as we know…
Are there many English riders out there who use NH methods, or is it really just a western thing??
———
I’m an english rider (although I have dabbled in novice western pleasure hehe) but I’ve been to two horsemanship clinics =)
Greg Cook was very adamant he was teaching horsemanship for any discipline, nothing western about it (although he is himself a western rider). He certainly looked cool calm and collected in whatever saddle he rode in – western, english, stock or halfbreed!
He was also not a fan of Parelli – I got the feeling he thought Parelli was in it for the money and fame rather than the education of humans for the good of their horses.
I’m probably one of the only ones in my area that use ‘natural-styled’ horsemanship groundwork. It proved it’s effectiveness one day however when a friend had spent two days and two hours trying to load her horse on a float, could barely get its front hooves on the tailgate – and I had him tied up in the float in 20 minutes =) 15 minutes of ground work, 5 minutes of asking to walk onto the float
OT but I must vent! I am aaaangry!
Went out for a bike ride tonight on our favorite trail. As we were going along, poor little kitten comes out on the trail and literally lays down in front of our bikes. So we stop and she will not let us leave. Being the soft headed people we are, we stuck her in my husband’s coat and biked her back to the car. She purred all the way home and is now in the garage for the night.
It just pisses me off when people dump their cats like this! She is skin and bones and is probably only two or three months old. She obviously was around humans – very affectionate and calm. So who in the hell was nice to her all that time and then just dumped out in the middle of nowhere? and expected her to fend for herself???
Asshats!!!
(Off to the vet tomorrow for a leukemia test and then we’ll decide what to do.)
sarah said…
There is just horsemanship, and useless rope twirlers.
a yep.
About drafts
there are several at the barn where I ride, and they jump small jumps and seem sound and healthy to me. I personally don’t like riding them that much, except for one who literally has more energy than any horse I have ever had contact with. He’s great.
They are also poplular in my area as foxhunting horses. Many of the people who hunt but are not the best riders like them because they don’t go as crazy in the field.
I have a friend that was into the original Parelli methods, back when he first started and she trained her horse that way. When she went to get on and ride, and yes she does ride, she had no problem. The horse was responsive. However what Parelli is doing now is no where near what he was doing when he started.
He went with the money people and became a marketable commodity.
To a lesser extent Clinton Anderson also went for the money. He doesn’t merchandise quite as much as Parelli. Clinton was up at the arena before he moved to Ohio and he also changed when the money started flowing in, then it became more about making the money than the training.
Morgan_Horse_Queen – Awesome thing you are doing for that kitten! I hope it’s healty and you keep it
Come on, what’s one more ;-D
Morgan_Horse_Queen said…
I read all the comments so far, admin stepped in and stopped the comments. The owner sounds pretty gullible – he could have drugged the horse for all she knew.
I didn’t read all the responses after you said this.. but I had to comment.
It’s funny that you said this because the first time I looked at the pictures I though to myself that the horse looks like he had been drugged. Take a look at his eyes.
He may also have been worked to death and has that look from it too.
Hard to say…
Morgan Horse Queen, please don’t assume that the kitten was dumped and unwanted. When my cat was a half-grown kitten, she was outside one day, and while we were out, there was a thunderstorm. She disappeared, and we looked and looked, but couldn’t find her. A week and a half later, we were walking and talking in an isolated area, heard a meow, checked under a bush, and found…our missing cat! She had lost 1/3 of her body weight, and had been very frightened, but had called when she recognized our voices. We had her for another 18 years after that, and that was one of the reasons why she became an indoor cat, as will any other cat I own.
Please check your local shelter, vet clinics, notice boards, pet supply stores, etc for notices of missing cats. If there is a slim chance that somebody is desperately looking for her, it would be a wonderful thing to reunite them.
this is off-topic, and i apologize for the length, but i can’t figure out how to attach this as a word doc. this is an account of last saturday’s horrible accident in wadsworth, il, written by a woman who was a volunteer at the scene. after reading this, please contact your senators and representatives and tell them to vote to abolish double-decker trailers for horse transport.
What did you do Saturday night?
October 27th, 2007. It had been a great Saturday. Perfect Midwest Fall weather and a day full of accomplishments. I had been able to ride three horses on the farm, one being my two and a half year old Boo for the fourth time of his life, followed by my twenty year old event horse, given a light day of dressage still feeling very good after a full season of shows.
I consider myself and my family “horsyâ€. We own a small horse farm; of which I am the full time staff. I compete in combined training as well as dressage. Kevin, my partner, is also very active; not only a DVM practicing with Bristol Veterinary Service (must mention Wisconsin Veterinarian of the Year for 2007) but also competing in the sport of combined driving. Our three year son, Nathan enjoys his pony, always looking forward to the next opportunity to saddle up.
It was just after seven in the evening. I had made dinner and we were just winding down. I even had my shower done; only task left was figuring what would be good to watch on the television. It was Kevin’s weekend on call. Then the pager went off, not at all unusual for this time of the evening as it had done just thirty minutes before. Kevin was sharing calls with Dr. Steve Graham; Steve taking the Illinois calls, Kevin the Wisconsin calls.
As Kevin called back the service I lingered about to find out what was up and where he would have to go. The service had a bizarre message, some sort of tractor trailer accident in Newport. It was all a bit strange as neither of us new what or where Newport was and why would they be talking about a semi wreck? Kevin called the number the service provided him and was answered by the Newport Fire and Rescue department. They proceeded to inform him they had a semi tractor trailer roll over on highway 41 and Wadsworth Road, Wadsworth Illinois. Still a bit confused they continued to say that there were 59 horses on board. Needless to say we were shocked. I immediately asked should I come along, answered very quickly with a yes. I rushed about getting clothes on, our three year old dressed and portable DVD packed while Kevin kept calling his associates, rounding up whom he could.
We were on the scene moments before seven thirty. Kevin had called Steve instructing him to stop at the clinic on his way to stock up on supplies. Our vet truck pulled right up to the over turned cab; lying across both lanes northbound, the median and two lanes of the southbound. As we approached the trailer, the rescue departments had already erected a substantial round pen about the rear of the trailer made of large chain link panels draped with tarps. We were escorted through a section to the rear, as we walked through there was kicking and banging from inside the trailer. The velocity was so great that the roof, which was what was facing us, was moving and bulging with every kick. Approaching the rear, the rescue squad was already sawing the back door apart. With the truck and trailer completely on its side, there was no accessible door.
By then many local horse enthusiasts had arrived. There were trailers lined up and ready to roll, people bringing blankets, halters and leads. Most important; people willing to risk their safety for already endangered animals. Never was there a shortage of help, physical or mental. Everyone worked as a team and I consider of all things, if it had to happen how fortunate it happened in such an involved, aware and supportive horse community.
Eternity was what it felt like. Finally the section rescue was working on gave way and facing all was a challenge to behold. It would have been the bottom of the trailer; my understanding and from what I could see it was a double decker trailer, meaning that it had two levels. It was a sea of animals, down and intertwined. Dr. Koehler who also is a local DVM had heard the news and arrived, he and Kevin went in to try and figure a plan. Nothing was easy, and by no means pretty. If I recall right the first horse off was pulled out, and I also believe it was euthanized by the end of the night. The situation just turned from bad to worse.
It became efforts of passion. The goal was to get all out and as soon as we could. As the first compartment was cleared, those horses that could stand were given the chance. I would grab the halter, hold the head and neck straight, position the front legs out and all helping would hoist the animal up. If they could stand, we would support them as we moved them away from the scene off to a make shift triage. There they were met by loving hands, warm blankets and kind hearts. I would imagine by the look of the horses, they would have never experienced this type of love ever.
It appeared that all were Belgian, Belgian crosses and some Percherons. There were a few ponies, some sort of Hafflinger crosses and maybe some quarter horse crosses. All the tails had been docked; they all had hip numbers from auction and very recent hip brands. About eighty to ninety percent were yearlings and two year olds. Although they were young they were big. I would lead one out with two fireman supporting the hind end and think wow, this is a tall horse! They just kept coming, those few that could stand, and most physically pulled out.
The second compartment had been opened. I refer to it as a compartment because it was no better than that. With the trailer on its side it was so hard to understand what was what; there were all these partitions that you could not make sense of nor open. Rescue had decided that the best way to the rest would be through the roof. It was an onslaught of noise and commotion; I could only imagine what those horses were going through. Once again we started empting that section just as the first.
By then the rescue squad had devised a make shift horse stretcher. Somewhere they had produced these full sheets of three quarter inch plywood, sawed holes through the end which ropes were placed. Now we were sliding horses out the roof, which had been folded down to the pavement. Again, most were pulled to safety; those that couldn’t stand were rolled over onto the stretcher and pulled out to triage. Maybe a few walked out of that compartment, it was just so surreal. There was never a moment that I was not attached to a horse, putting on a halter, holding legs still, bracing a head and mostly pulling bodies about.
Other rescue personal were then working on freeing a section again at the rear of the trailer. Enclosed there were four weanlings or small yearlings. They were bonded together like glue and standing upright. The space they were in could not have been any bigger than a small dog kennel, with a quarter of the height. I would check them periodically as we kept removing others from the adjacent compartment. Easily I could see them through the slats; they stood like statues above all the noise, sparks and commotion. About the same time the one section was empty the little ones were closer to freedom. They came out as a group and it took quite a few hands to get the over sized halters on their little heads. That group I helped lead to the awaiting trailers, and just like all the rest they jumped straight on, never a hesitation.
Meanwhile Kevin and Dr. Koehler were having a rough time with two mares remaining in the first side. One had her hoof trapped through the slats under the trailer and the other wanted nothing to do with rescue and took a couple good swings at Kevin, landing one on his thigh and the next on his wrist. With much struggle they both were tranquilized and left to settle for further evaluation on their removal. Dr. Steve Graham and Dr. Leslie Szalla; also on Bristol’s staff, arriving as soon as she heard of the accident, were managing the triage and doing the best they could. Thankfully they had enough willing help and many experienced equine people.
It was on to a new section; yet another partition in the way. Rescue once again sawed the gate in half, the top section was pulled up and tied back while the bottom half was attached to the ground, which would have been the side of the trailer. This is when I finally started to give. There pinned against what would have been the floor of the top section and also along what would have been the side of the trailer was a horse each side. The gap they were pinned in could have been no larger than eight inches. One was trapped by its neck; the other had hind legs on one side and body on the other. I am sure that they came to their demise during the flip, and I never saw them move.
However, that was not the worse to come for me. I believe it was some form of the Jaws of Life that removed the remaining barricade to the expose the rest of the trapped horses. My heart literally sank and I wanted to walk away. What appeared was a cavity filled with horses lying on their sides. I would have guessed any where between fifteen and twenty some. They were laying three to four deep and hiding in the back were two standing. I could not tell what they were standing on but figured it had to be their comrades. I turned to the rescue person at my side and said I don’t even know where to start. There were legs everywhere; you could not tell what was with whom. The only thing distinguishable was their groaning as steam rose up from their tired overstressed bodies. An occasional movement would catch your eye, and we all stood there for a minute not knowing what to do. Finally I crawled in at the lead from another man and haltered one, the first head we saw move. As we tried to hoist him up we realized his legs were under two or three others. Finally we went back to the two dead and started to remove them to get to the others. Before we could get the first one out, this commotion started from the back, more groaning and kicking. I looked up to see one standing from the back walking across the bodies. He came straight to us, placed his head in the halter and walked out of that wreck. I was again invigorated and continued with diligence and hope. Had that animal not made the effort, I might have walked away. I knew now that I could not give up.
That was the worst compartment, not many walked out of there. By then more of the roof had been removed and the back half we were able to roll out of the wreck straight on to the stretchers. Caution was taken with the metal; sharp edges were covered by winter blankets, brought out by volunteers, to prevent more damage and pain to the horses. The roof folded down to the pavement like a cheap beer can. With all the condensation and manure it was very difficult to walk on let alone drag horses out of. As we all sorted through the bodies an occasional round of cheer and applause would be heard. It was quite disconcerting as I thought what could be happy here? I would turn my head to the volunteers outside as one more battered body arose to the loving arms and support of their rescuers. My heart would smile.
On to the last compartment; this would have been the section above the truck. The easiest way in there was yet through another partition. Again the sawing and cutting; once open I asked the chief is there one down on the left. I got the happy reply that no, they were all up. I believe there were about seven or eight in there, almost adult size. In order to assure they could walk out safe, the unused stretchers were placed on the floor of the trailer and one over the folded down roof for an easy walk to the pavement. They were haltered by the Newport chief, one by one lead down the busted up hull. I informed the people along the cut roof line to form a human wall to prevent any horse from wanting to leave at a spot that was to low for clearance, sporting quite a jagged dangerous edge. About eight of us stood there as each horse walked to safety; unbelievable that they would continue to trust and obey.
The last two mares on the bottom side were finally sedated enough and both came out; they were the last. Assessment was on going in triage, and now all the vets’ attention was out there. Evaluations were made; those that had injuries to grave to overcome were kindly euthanized and quietly left the scene with the peace and love of their human rescuers. The site itself is unimaginable and I will spare anymore details.
As for exact numbers I can’t even tell. That night was a blur; it took all in all about five hours to remove all the horses from the wreck. I think that is pretty incredible. Yes, more could have been saved if we could have gotten to them. Rest assured all was done to do so. I have never seen such team work in total strangers, and the rescue departments were wonderful. Those fire fighters and rescue personal were never hesitant; they understood the desperation of the animals and compassionately worked to free them. I safely feel I can say that no human was even injured, despite the horses thrashing about and the dangerous conditions of the wreck. I will say that every muscle in my body aches, and I would imagine most people involved would say the same. It is the power of the human spirit and the fight for our animals that create the miracle.
Why did I write about this? No particular reason but to share an experience. We all can imagine what the fate of these animals was, what will happen to then now remains a mystery. When these incidents happen, and they have happened before, those directly involved seem to disappear like the lives of these magnificent animals. It was only a year ago that an identical incident happened outside St. Louis, about the same amount of living and dead from what I recall hearing. I guess all I ask is to give it some thought. Although you may think the answer is easy, there in lies the catch. If it appears that I am talking in circles, I am; intending not to turn into being an editorial or position, just a life experience. Be aware, be practical and be conscientious. Most of all is be keepers of the animals.
I was to be at a horse trial that weekend. Up until two weeks before the accident I was still on and off about going. However, I was tired; it was late in the year and my partner and I had already had a great season. I opted out. Now I know why the decision was made for me. My destiny was to help those animals with the countless others that arrived at the scene. The gratification and reward was far better than any blue ribbon won. We all received the biggest prize that evening, the privilege of helping these defenseless animals, the opportunity to experience humanity at its best and even some of God’s miracles. What did you do Saturday night?
Ok, per the jumping drafts and crosses, yes they can jump, and just like every other breed, how well they do depends on conformation. I have had draft crosses and a full perch mare, all wonderful eventers and hunters. I know my full Perch mare was jumping 3′ when I sold her as an event school horse, and a Perch/TWH cross mare I had could jump the moon. This one actually scared you when she jumped because of the power in her kick off. She is now tearing up the pony club ranks.
As for TWH, dressage and flying changes, yes TWH can do both of those things. My TWH mare is a hunter over fences champ, got every lead change, and also a blue ribbon winner in a reining class. Most TWH DON’T do lead changes, etc because they aren’t trained to. TWH show trainers make money by getting the horse to gait in a circle as quickly as possible, which explains (but doesn’t justify) the horrendous bits they use to ‘get them to set back and walk’ Why spend years schooling a horse to supple and willing collection when you can throw a bicycle chain bit in his mouth, put chains on his fetlocks, heavy shoes on his feet, hop on his back with whip and spur and in 30 days sell him as ‘ready to show.’
I have had a multitude of people ride my TWH mare and want to know where they can get a horse like her. Sad to say, they won’t find one.
Hah… I love how the horse is just standing there. I wonder what they did to that poor horse to get it to just stand there! It looks drugged…
Fugly, you could fill an entire blog from the contents of NCHN. You really should keep an eye on the picture topics. They’re like a car crash, horrible, but you just can’t look away.
You guys are not going to like what i’m about to say but this horse is not starved to be honest he looks pretty good. He looks like his in a SAFE round pen. His 3 years old which is not too young to start a horse. Yes he is sweating but it’s about time some people started working their horses. The guy on the horse is not being the smartest person ever but hey you know what if he wants to break his neck acting stupid hell let him. To be honest i have soo much more worse than this horse right here
I’m also a regular lurker on the original forum where these were posted. It’s sad to see a lot of the “advice” that is touted there. You could get several months’ worth of material for this blog from the pictures and threads that are posted over there right now. It is disturbing and worrying to see some of the things that are so vehemently defended on that board. We’d love to see some new, knowledgable members.
forum.nchorsenews.com
it’s conceivable that the horse got all lathered up after a mere 10 or 20 minutes of work. I bought a horse in the heart of the south and it was 110 and 90%+ humidity the day I picked up my horse. I rode her for the first time that day and we were both absolutely soaked after 10 minutes. … i find it plausible that he did not, in fact, work the horse to death
Hello? I dont know what the running opinion is in the states, but up here in Canada, if we have a really hot and muggy day we don’t really ride them hard at all: and while my horse might sweat when i ride, but he SURE as hell would never be soaked and dripping like that. EVER.
Whether its 6 hours on a normal day, or 15 minutes on a hot day, it is way too intense a cardio workout on these horses, period. PERIOD. they both will lead to exhaustion.
Looking at this horse, he was PUSHED TOO HARD. I dont care how long. no horse should be left gasping, too exhausted to fight anymore.
Just out of interest – did anyone go to the AEBC website?
Another Aussie posted details of this trainer recently and then, as now, there was no responses/comments. I also have posted several times about Autralia’s Stock Horses and again no responses/comments.
Not whinging – just wondering if those on this Blog follow up stuff that is outside the US or not? (‘Cause if not I won’t bother anymore)
http://www.aebc.com.au/home
http://www.ashs.com.au/website/default.asp
yikes!
http://doyline.olx.com/grant-male-zebra-for-sale-iid-2924300
There hasn’t been a blog on zebras, yet, has there? I can’t even begin to imagine the purpose of owning one, or of crossing them with horses. Mules pretty much have that niche market, I’ve never seen a picture of a zorse do anything but stand around being fat and stripey…
Here’s my comment:
Horse looks miserable, tired, and dazed.
The guy is a show-off. No horseman would do what he is doing.
The guy is a clown who abuses this horse.
Taldara said…
Just out of interest – did anyone go to the AEBC website?
I went to the website but I can’t figure out why the jumper wants to be Seabiscuit since the Biscuit raced on the flat and was not a jumper.
I’m sorry Kay…I have no idea what you meant?? Did the link posted not take you to the Aust Equine Behaviour Centre?
I let every horse that I work with drag a lead rope while wearing a rope halter. I have never have had one wrap itself up and fall down. Granted, I am always supervising them, and I usually have them on a lead that I hold. I get them to step on the dragging roperope. If they get a leg caught or panic, I just keep their head turned around so they can’t run. They get a lot lighter on the halter if they step on the rope. I also train all of mine to accept front hobbles and having a back leg pulled up via a heavy collar around the neck. They don’t get worried about it when they get caught or hung up. Also, I have fallen off and had my foot caught in the stirrup, and the three-year-old with only 2 rides on him stopped dead in his tracks and just stood while I wriggled free. He was a thoroughbred who wasn’t the brightest bulb in the box either. Nothing wrong with dragging the rope around in the right facilities under supervision.
Em
Going back to a comment from what seems like days ago (on this post…)
Here’s a link to the Noavel (Novell) halter thing website. The whole concept seems to be metal bar on chin = training
*crossing fingers, hope that worked*
Erm kinda (on my link-posting abilities)
Also, on the Seabiscuit crap, if you didn’t read the touching biography about the horse and the girl on the site… put on some Depends and get comfy.
I Wanna Be Seabiscuit
Some selections from the text:
“I dont need to put a halter on his head or a bit in his mouth to ride him.(I have a witness to this)”
Ready to enter Witness Protection and everything!
“That is the VERY big disadvantage I have is that I am not very well known or have any credibility.”
oh, you’re known alright…
“Who knows, one day, my Seabiscuit might just be the next trilogy and may even have a statue in the Kentucky horse park.”
Wtf does ‘be the next trilogy’ mean? I doubt the Kentucky Horse Park will be putting up a statue of a fugly TWH that launches over obstacles with his barefoot, shorts and pigtailed-rider with her purple crop, green reins, and western headstall.
Le sigh
oh wow… I looked up that Noavel training on youtube and found an amazing video (still in shock) I had to share it with you!
click here
Also, about the zebra, I know its wrong, but I still think it would be cool to have one…
Oh my…
When I started reading the “I Wanna Be Seabiscuit page” I was thinking, awww come one, a girl wants her pony to be a really good jumper, where is the harm in that…
Then I stopped to notice that the pony was a stallion and has been bred…
“I offer Multiple mare discounts, and live foal guarentee. There are no booking fees at this time. Stud fee stands at $135 but will increase with his winnings.”
If the stud fee is ONLY $135, the horse probably shouldn’t be bred.
*bangs head on desk* I don’t generally get involved with the verbally bashing of people but…what the hell? Why?!
therese said…
“Also, about the zebra, I know its wrong, but I still think it would be cool to have one…”
I have 11 – I work at Monarto Zoo! You really wouldn’t want a zebra – they don’t have an especially nice temperament – and we have several giraffes with scars on their bums and an Eland (big antelope) with no tail thanks to our zebs!!!
Peach said…
You guys are not going to like what i’m about to say but this horse is not starved to be honest he looks pretty good. He looks like his in a SAFE round pen. His 3 years old which is not too young to start a horse. Yes he is sweating but it’s about time some people started working their horses. The guy on the horse is not being the smartest person ever but hey you know what if he wants to break his neck acting stupid hell let him. To be honest i have soo much more worse than this horse right here
The horse is in good condition, no one’s disputing that. But I’ve started many young horses. I have NEVER had to get one that sweaty to get it to mind. I will grant, I am a weenie and a softie, but if you have to work the horse and yourself that hard, then maybe you need to start working smarter, not harder.
CutNJump said…
phe- Sack em’ out, fine,…
No, no, no, no, no. In the NH world the word is desensitize. You have to desensitize them to everything. I Hate that fucking word! Is that because the human doesn’t have de sense to tie his own dam shoes? Must be where the crocs come in handy.
Oh yes, silly me. And of course, we can’t sack out, er, desensitize with something so plebian as a saddle blanket. Oh no, we have to use pretty mylar streamers and fancy sticks and fru fru stuff to REALLY make sure our horses aren’t going to climb over us to get away from whatever gremlin is going to come their way.
theresa- that YouTube video… not what I was thinking…? The gal with the electric saw working on the outside of the horse’s stall while the horse was just kinda standing there? Maybe not the safest thing in the world, but hardly FHOTD fodder to me… ?
Maybe it was mis-posted or something. Anyways, I did find this though- it’s a horse having some kind of attack or maybe even seizure at a racetrack. Can anyone shed some light on what might be going on? It sounds like they are in France, maybe Belgium, not North America to me…
Horse seizure
As I have said before…There Is NO Medicine For Stupid !! [only a bullet will fix this [for the imbecile human] and a change of ownership for the poor horse.
Love the pic of the bucking horse re: Parelli. LOL
“Natural Horsemanship” is complete bullshit, all you need is common-sense and compassion, not gimmicks.
RE the Gypsy Vanner’s colour; they do come in solid colours as well as piebald and skewbald [pinto coat pattern], usually with abundant white face and leg markings.
therese (sorry for getting the name wrong the first time)
You might have meant this video:
Noavel “Training”
Not to ruin the fun, but unhandled 2 y/o stud colt + pipe panel round pen set up in a parking lot for an expo + metal bosal, saddle, and Suthun’ Accents = bad news
No offense.
its easy to not be annoyed by all this NH bullshit – just go about your life as if it doesnt exist. look the other way anywhere you see it happening. if anyone talks to you about it, stare at them as if they are jabbering in a different language, then walk away. this is how i treat both NH and anything western and i live happy and incredibly rude
anyone who even pretends in my presence there is such a thing as ‘western/english’ gets the ‘stop ranting at me in swahili – i have to be over there now’ treatment. theres riding and theres pretending to be a cross between sitting bull and clint eastwood when youre actually a fat dumpy white chick from the outer melbourne suburbs, piddling around in the rain at a paraplegic limping trot on an overweight heifer dressed in more tassels than a whole las vegas strip show. get a grip.
Lifelike – I am with you all the way!!!
lifelike001….what amazing imagery…succinct prose…pure poetry… *applauds*
=D
thankyou, ill be unjustly hateful all week
I think the “horse seizure” horse is having a BAD colic. Note that he looks around at his side and makes other “colic faces.” I hope he got veterinary attention.
I just watched the horse seizure video, and my first thought also that he looked like he might be colicing.
He probably just didn’t want to go down in an area where he didn’t feel comfortable. It was really quite sad to see him fight to stay up, brought to mind my Arab the day he was euthanized (EPM) because he just couldn’t get his back legs to work and get him back up on his feet.
Thanks Equus for posting about the rescue of those babies from the double decker. A sad story.
Last year’s double-decker incident was in our Sunday paper from last week. They had an article on Twister and Willie.
Twister also has an article in the “Equus” magazine.
http://www.longmeadowrescueranch.org
Wanna know another great thing about them? They actually train their horses.
There’s one little filly (who wasn’t in the accident) I would love to adopt from there, but I just don’t have the time right now for another horse. She was my favorite when I volunteered there. So if any FHOTD readers adopts Pebbles (unlikely, but hey) treat her well, she’s a sweetheart.
I generally don’t like Perlino coloring, and she isn’t too good lookin’ herself, but she’ll make someone a nice riding mare some day.
Now back to the main focus of the post:
Why, why, WHY would you stand on a horse? There’s just no use. Buy a ladder. It doesn’t show how calm it is, it shows how dumb you are.
Working a horse so it’s too tired to fight isn’t training, it’s just horrible.
And as for the majority of the people on that web-forum: What drugs are they on? I want some.
Back to the NCHN forum..
“
I have been considered breeding my favorite mare for a while now, but I am fairly certain I want to go ahead and begin looking for the perfect baby daddy.. My mare is a registered QH.. She is Hancock bred… Gorgeous blue roan (almost black blue roan in the summer, snowflakey in winter) She is a lovely mover with a sweet/bombproof temperment to die for! She is hands down the kindest and smartest horse I have ever trained… tries her best..
I have no clue what I want to breed her to, but I would love some opinions. She is only about 14.2 and I am very tall (almost 5’10”) So I would love to breed her to something big so that I could have a baby that would hopefully be a better size match for me.
I absolutely love Fresians,Shires, and I really like the Gypsy Vanners as well…. how big is too big to breed to? I dont want to put her at risk… thanks guys! “
..Another one.
The comments, too. Oh lord.
Please, someone.. I need a drink. Or to go hug my non-pregnant horse.
Does Parelli ever mention “his mind’s eye”, or “you know what I’m thinking” or something similar.
The lady that does my gelding’s feet does a lovely job; but she cracks me up.
First she rides bareback (have no idea whether she uses a bridle or just halter and leadshank) but she keeps regaling me with stories of being bucked off by her collection of Parelli trained beasties.
Fair enough; she’s only here to do feet. She tried to Parelli my gelding. First T is very impatient and we’d kept him in and he’d really like to go out to graze, so while she is doing his feet; he’s leaning a bit and pulling his foot away to be an ass.
The Parelli-Trimmer is nagging at him, telling him he should read her mind; cause she’s projecting how she’d like him to behave. I don’t think he really cared about what she’s “thinking”. I let it go for a little bit; figured a person whose gone through all the levels and owns all the dvds should be able to handle my little gelding and his foot pulling.
She finally has had enough, asks for his leadshank and starts cranking on the halter; T backs up; which is what you are supposed to do if your person is mad enough to crank on your halter and then stands there looking at her in bemusement. She says she’ll have to get him to respect her some; so she takes him outside and starts swinging the end of the rope at him.
Didn’t tell her T doesn’t longe; he doesn’t see the wisdom in it; he will run around if you chase him; constantly, but only if you are also running around that damn circle with him. So she’s swinging a rope and T stands there and looks at her, she swings it at him, bops him and he turns his head to look at her (this is the pony that I do conservation cleanup on and have accidently slugged in the head with a garbage back full of junk) he doesn’t “startle” easy.
I guess he respected her now; she brought him back inside and she’s standing there shaking his halter and makes a mention of him not licking his lips and submitting. I kinda wondered what he was supposed to be submitting to?
However amusing it was to me; she must have got her point across because he stood for the last 2 feet to be done and was fine.
Natural Horsemanship; whoda thunkit?
Next time she came out and he pulled the same crap; I slapped him with the flat of my hand under his belly and growled at him; he stood up fine.
Saw this post over on nchorsenews and the owner was bragging about how well this “trainer” was doing with her horse. What a joke!!
As anyone can see that poor horse has been run into the dirt (well in this case deep sand!) until it is so exhausted that it’s a miracle that the poor thing is still standing.
All she suceeded in doing by posting those photos was to show everyone what “trainer” to stay far far away from if you care about your horse at all. I guess if you really don’t care how poorly your horse is treated then you would go to this “trainer”.
Sad thing is I bet the poor animal is still there being “trained” guess she really doesn’t care how the horse gets broke (and broke is what it is getting!) as long as she can ride it.
First Dog…that cracked me up!! As we’ve discussed before a timely growl and slap usually works a little better than telepathy.
Went to look at some ponies for my kids a few years ago. The woman breeds minature ponies (as well as a few bigger ones)…way too many but that’s another story. While inspecting a yard with some foals in it I said that I liked one of them. She said that she was going to keep that one because they had a ‘special bond’ and were ‘family’. I thought “Isn’t that nice”. Then she told me why: Seems she had bought the foal’s mother already in foal but didn’t know when said foal was due. So for several months this woman would check the mare several times a day and rub her belly and talk to the foal to ask when it was coming out. She reckons that when it was born it already ‘knew’ her because it recognised her voice. I know this may be true in humans but am very doubtful about it crossing the species-barrier!!
The horse doesn’t appear to have been abused. If the guys has boots on he has no business standing on the horse’s back though.
No problem with most NH techniques. The horse owners who think they can NH train but never ride ARE a problem. But then most of my horsey friends don’t really ride. I don’t call riding a horse in little circles – even if it does different gaits at different speeds – riding. If you can’t take your horse out on the trails, in parades, out in the pasture, it’s not trained, or you’re not trained, or something’s seriously wrong.
American’s are enamored of HUGE horses – horses they can’t handle or ride well. They hire trainers who can ride them BUT the trainer can’t teach them to ride well when they only get on the horse for ten minutes once a month – most to get their picture taken.
You HAVE to put in the time and just get some miles in the saddle. You don’t have to ride a huge horse even if you’re tall. A friend who is 6 1 rides a 13 2 mare. No she’s not overweighted – he’s cowboy sized – weighs 145 pounds – and she’s one of those 13 2 on the ground, 17 hands in the saddle type anyway.
Picture horse looks like it’s been hosed down by the way.
For all you damm yankees and Canadians – riding in 95 degree heat and nearly 100 % humidity is nothing for our guys or us. We all “sweat like horses”. It’s called “being acclimated to where you live”. You feed soaked beet pulp, you drink water by the gallon, you walk in the shade and run in the sun to get out it. You plant lots of trees and you wear lots of repellent and you don’t ride in mid afternoon – you take a siesta. And your horses learn to drink from wherever and whatever and any creek you get to you soak them and yourself. I don’t ride dark horses from 10am to 5 pm either. They just can’t take heat. Light buckskin, grey, light bay, palomino, lots of duns do better in the heat unless you have full shade. And you get off and walk with your horse also. If we didn’t ride in the heat – we’d never ride. No air conditioned trails I know of in the deep south.
All the gaited breeds I know of can do flying lead changes. They’re horses!!
I prefer the thin soft rope halters. They don’t rub, the horse pays attention to it and it will break if the horse gets in serious trouble. It can also be put under the headstall to use when leading the horse during a ride. I do hate to see people yanking a horse by the bridle. OUCH!
Longing/lunging – A few times around me on a long lead (10 ft) is usually enough to get them to pay attention and stop being so nervous. Most can be ridden immediately but it depends – just gotta feel the horse’s attitude at the time to see if it’s necessary.
Three year olds a are silly. Especially the boys. I don’t ride them until they have a brain.
Too many horse owners are worse then mommies. Only she can take proper care of a horse. Everyone else is abusive, feeds bad feed, never gets a vet when needed, has dangerous property and is in general not qualified to own a horse. It gets old. But what REALLY is annoying and sometimes dangerous is when this person who knows it all gives your horse some type of feed or treat or treatment without your permission that is detrimental to the horse. Gotta SMACK them!!
Well, while I agree with some of the posts on here (on other topics), I have to disagree with the just plain hatefulness coming from some of you posters. Namely, the ones insinuating that, if you’re from the “South”, you MUST be a redneck. Also, shame on you to the ones who are members of NCHN and are dogging that website (and are hiding your true selves). I have met many wonderful people from there and shared great times. These people are the “salt of the earth” and willing to do anything and everything to help their fellow man…Just because you disagree with something you see/read over there, doesn’t mean it is a terrible website, etc.
I do peruse this website here and there, and enjoy reading SOME of the posts, but choose to (usually) ignore the downright hateful ones. Because a website I thoroughly enjoy (NCHN) is being negated, I felt I had to step in and defend it. For those of you who don’t like it- you’re free to leave. Also, to those of you who are saying “Let’s hear it for North Carolina!”, again, don’t lump everyone in one group because of ONE post you dislike/disagree with. Not everyone trains their horses here (or wherever, for that matter) like this.
I truly do hope for that horse’s sake and owner’s sake that it does turn out to be a gentle, trustworthy mount (unlike some of you wishing ill-will to the trainer and owner). If you TRULY feel the training is inappropriate, why don’t you offer some help and PM that person? Try to keep the cussing and meanness out of it while you’re at it.
Anyhow, I have to say I’ve learned alot from this site as far as confirmation goes and how truly scary it is out there for reliable horse breeders trying to distance themselves from the uncaring/unthoughtful ones. I just hope that we aren’t steered away from the original intention of this website and start nit-picking every little darned thing we see on the internet.
Ha, that was hilarious. Love the commentary as usual. I just about peed myself, I was laughing so hard.
It’s horrible that they do stuff like that, though…
awww
Id like to see the horse sit on his head lol
Jennifer (aka jcwishin; hey, way to show your true self!)–whether or not there are “good people” on NCHN is not at issue. Anyone willing to post photos of a helmet-less dude standing on a worn-out horse’s back with a lead rope begging to get tangled in his legs should be willing to take the criticism that will doubtlessly ensue.
Also, NCHN is not being “negated,” unless it’s being multiplied by zero.
Sara- For your information: I already had a google account prior to posting here and my username was already “Jennifer”, which is my real name, in other words, not “hiding” by any means. If you weren’t one of the people saying things like “you could fill whole pages with the stuff on NCHN”, etc. then, of course, I wasn’t referring to YOU! I was referring to those who were trying to lump everyone on that website into one group…
And where did I ever say that ANY of the things being done in those pics was proper training?? I didn’t!…EXCEPT for those who are saying lunging a horse is wrong…and GASP…making is sweat is wrong as well. I don’t agree with those comments.
Anyhow, I’m just trying to promote people offering constructive criticism instead of just being downright mean to the owner by saying she is “gullible” and wishin her ill-will. That’s all.
I would also like to add that I live in NC. Yes, it gets hot here in the summer. 95-100 degrees, usually. But it’s not that bad – I’ve ridden my horse in 85-90 degree weather [mild work, walk trot canter jump in the ring] and he was fine. They only REALLY sweat under the saddle. So you would have to work your horse pretty dang hard to get it all sweaty like this one.
I am also a member of NCHN. There is more to the site that what has been portayed – the previous posters comments are merely
stirring up the negatives. There are a ton of well educated, extremely helpful posters on that forum. The kind of people who actually take the time to HELP someone out with an issue, rather that just laughing at them. Some of you people don’t care about the horses, you only care about the drama.
Yes, there is some lesser educated people aboard NCHN – but how does anyone figure that blasting them is going to help the horse? *I* think it’s a good step in the right direction that they are reading a message board to begin with. They obviously have some interest in learning more about horses. Teach, don’t preach, and don’t be jerks. It’s not rocket science to be nice.