Half wits breeding half breds
Oct 04 2007
We’ve had this discussion before, but I want to clarify that not all crossbreds are bad. For example, you can cross a show quality Saddlebred and a show quality Arabian and get an equally nice, show quality National Show Horse. Those are two breeds that blend well together. They are targeted toward the same disciplines and their conformation is complementary. The resultant foal may be registered and shown in breed shows.
The problems come when someone cannot afford a 100% Trendy Horse Breed Du Jour and therefore decides that a nifty solution would be horses that are 50% Trendy Horse Breed Du Jour. Typically, these folks don’t give a rat’s ass about the quality of the Trendy Sire (if it’s a Gypsy Vanner or a Friesian or, in this case, a Norwegian Fjord, it must be good, right? Like all Mercedes are good! Yeah, okay…) and they think the Magikal Sperm of the Trendy Sire will overcome any weaknesses in their shitty, backyard auction-rescued mixed breed puke of a mare.
Sadly, that is not how it works, and this is proven in today’s example, described by its owner as a “grade sport pony type filly.” Owner goes on to brag that “has had 3 weeks worth of bandaging twice a day so she is great with her legs!” This is because she injured her right foreleg. Looking at that fence, and the amount of crap laying around everywhere, I simply cannot imagine how such a thing could have happened. They note that she is for sale because she is smaller than they had anticipated, although they state she will mature 13-14 hh. Well, their mare was 14 hh and the sire was a Fjord, exactly what were they expecting? You are not going to get 16.2 from that cross!
This filly is not going to win any beauty contests. Her head reminds me of a polo pony I used to know called Scout, but referred to behind his owner’s back as “Snout.” Her shoulder’s good but her neck is short and unattractive. There are no decent pictures here – she looks sickle hocked but may be ok, it’s hard to say. Her front pasterns are very long and weak and she’s not just toed out – if you look below, her knees point out – the leg isn’t straight at any point. I am ok with her being downhill because she’s 16 months but the other things, she isn’t going to grow out of. The lump of proud flesh just adds to the picture! (Did you know there are remedies for that? Yes, there are!)
You know why I gripe about heads? I agree with you all who say you can’t ride the head. That’s true. But no one wants to buy an ugly pony. They don’t. Try to sell one and you will see how true this is! Face it, judges want a whole picture. They want a pony that is elegant to look at, moves well, and jumps well – and buyers want a pony with a good disposition that their kid can manage without major drama. If you are going to breed sport ponies, you had better be breeding for all of these elements or you are going to wind up with a herd of fugly ponies in the backyard that you can’t get rid of, much like this lady.
But hey, the half Fjord pony can be yours for the low low price of only $2000 or trade for a stock trailer. Here’s the problem with that: So can the pony at left. This pony is five years old. Here is her description “She is currently being schooled over poles and cross poles. She is willing and going very nicely. Moves off your leg and collects up. Flat knee and nice stride. Canter is cadenced and balanced. She is great outside or in the arena. Pretty little mare with tons of potential. Likes to jump.” While this isn’t a $20,000 conformation pony either (I suspect it is just a midget QH, the ad doesn’t say), if you have $2000 to spend, you’d be a lot smarter buying this pony – who you could resell after one show season and make a tidy profit.
(The really funny part is, I could probably convince a buyer that this dun filly is a half Fjord before I could convince them the filly at the top is!)
Moral of the story, as usual: STOP BREEDING CRAP. There is absolutely NO incentive for a buyer to purchase your crooked-legged, fugly headed yearling when they can take the same $2000 and buy a cute, trendy colored pony that only needs minimal finishing to go show. The horse market did not get this way overnight. Doing a tiny bit of research would have revealed the facts of life to you 2 years ago, BEFORE you bred your backyard pony to someone’s Fjord. Think, think, think before you bring horses into the world that there is no market for!
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Just a quick note, the “hot bloods” introduced to Europe via Spain (especially from Roman times through the Renaissance) were NOT Arabians. They were North African Barbs, which is not quite the same as an Arabian.
“Gypsy Vanners” were first imported to the US by Dennis Thompson and his late wife Cindy. They discovered Cushti Bok while on a business trip in England. They coined the name Gypsy Vanner, and Cushti Bok was the first horse registered with the new association Gypsy Vanner Horse Society. I met Dennis a few years ago when I lived in Florida, and we were at a Paso show in Ocala. He invited me, my sister and a friend of ours to visit his farm to see the horses. I have a photo of Cushti Bok, but will never publish it. I took quite a few photos of his horses including his stallion Road Sweeper. His wife Cindy had passed away the previous year (2002). She tragically fell down the stairs from the loft office in their barn, and died of her injuries.
While I agree the prices are inflated due to the novelty of the breed, I can imagine that as it becomes more of an “established breed”, the novelty will wear off, and the prices may drop.
kah,
why “cheap”? Be careful what you pay for….a stallion with a stud fee of $200 or $300, doesn’t necessarily reflect quality, does it? Look for quality, find out what the fee is, and save your money for the fee. You will be much happier with a quality foal, than a cheaply bred one….
Graywolf said…
kah,
why “cheap”? Be careful what you pay for….a stallion with a stud fee of $200 or $300, doesn’t necessarily reflect quality, does it? Look for quality, find out what the fee is, and save your money for the fee. You will be much happier with a quality foal, than a cheaply bred one….
It has been said that the stud fee is the cheapest part of breeding horses. If this is the case, it’s probably not best to cut corners in that part of your program.
We talk about the Friesian as being one of the oldest “purebreds†whilst acknowledging that the modern Friesian has been influenced by other breeds, particularly Spanish breeds. I guess what we really mean is they are one of the oldest “closed studbooksâ€. No breed spontaneously sprang up in isolation to any others they all trace back to those tiny pre horses, but once in isolation they certainly developed differently. Then along we came and started meddling too, breaking down the natural barriers like distance and oceans and selecting for what we wanted.
As for crossing for a purpose, that is specifically what the Arabofries people are doing with Friesians and Arabs in Europe. Trying to develop a horse that looks and moves like a Friesian, but has a bit of an extra edge of endurance so they can compete at the top level in the grueling sport of combined driving.
I don’t know how successful they have been yet, just adding a dash of Arab and hoping it changes the whole constitution of the horses? They aim for less than 25% Arab blood and are using specially selected sires over good Friesian mares, not putting a Friesian stallion over any cheap Arab they can get their hands on.
Kah,
some universities and colleges that have equine studies and specificly equine reproduction degrees stand nice stallions to the public at reduced prices. you could try checking out that avenue for a nice stallion stallion at an economical price.
Kah,
I don’t know who it was that emailed you, but there are a lot of reasons why looking for a cheap stud fee raises red flags for people here.
If a stallion is being offered for a low stud fee, there’s generally a reason–and that reason is generally that he’s of low quality. (Note that the opposite isn’t necessarily true–a stud with a high fee can still be not worth breeding to.) Since your mare is just “not bad,” the best you can reasonably expect from breeding her to a stallion who is just “not bad” is a foal that’s just “not bad.” And that’s the best. You could get a foal that’s not even “not bad”.
If you didn’t read the “State of the Industry” article that was linked to a couple of days ago, have a look. The country is oversupplied with low-to-medium quality horses right now–in other words, horses that are bad or “not bad.” Only very good horses are selling for decent prices. If you’re planning to sell the foal out of your “not bad” mare, I’d strongly recommend that you reconsider. You’re likely to end up sending your foal to slaughter, hundreds or thousands of dollars in the hole.
If you plan to keep the foal and raise him as your own riding horse, it’s probably okay to go ahead with your plan–as long as you do as you said and choose the very best stallion you can–one that’s a step or two above your mare in quality. It’s always possible that your circumstances will change and you won’t be able to keep your young horse, so you want to make sure that he’s a good enough horse that you’ll be able to get him into a good home if that happens (even if it requires selling at a loss, which could easily happen).
That said, you need to honestly assess your mare–just how “not bad” is she? If her best feature is her personality, you might want to reconsider. (The anecdata seems to suggest that nasty-ass bitch of a mare is more likely to pass along her personality than a sweetie.) If the foal gets all of her worst features, combined with all of the chosen stallion’s worst features, will that be okay? If not, you might be better off buying a weanling to raise–chances are you’d be able to get more horse for your money than putting the same amount into a stud fee. As long as you’re planning to keep the foal, I don’t think breeding your mare is a terrible thing to do (although some users of this board may disagree), but it’s probably not really *necessary*. I’d advise you to think hard about why you want to breed, and consider if buying a young horse to train might achieve what you hope to achieve by breeding your mare.
Fantasia,
That video for sale horse you posted…. he just looks sluggish at every turn, especially the canter. Like an Arab turned down to 75% speed. His tail is too low-set for my tastes as well, he tries to ‘flag’ it but it’s just not going. His trot isn’t high enough to be catchy like a Fresian and his common color makes him look like anyone’s QH from far away. I love Arabs and I love Fresians, but they are different breeds for a reason.
Fugly, I really love your blog, *but* you don’t make enough allowances for the amount of growing a 16 month old heavy-horse cross has to do, and the amount that this will change its conformation. I know QHs mature quickly, so maybe what you have with a 2 year old QH is what it will mature as.
I breed warmbloods, and what you have as a two year old is totally different to what you have in the five year old. They’re backside high, shoulders totally out of proportion to the (very large) rump, the neck is often spindly, the head is large in proption to the rest of the body etc etc etc. You’ll grant them backside high, but that is it.
The majority of heavy horses and heavy horse crossbreeds are going to suffer from this curse. That’s why the standard joke is you take photos of them as a 4 week old – which will give you a fair idea of their adult conformation – and then hide them in a back paddock til they are 4 years old as otherwise everyone will think you’re breeding rubbish.
This is one of the reasons nobody should breed heavy horse crosses unless they can afford to feed and house them til they are 4! You either sell them as foals, or you sell them on bloodlines, or you wait patiently til they are 4, working kindly under saddle and been to a few dressage comps, and then you triple the price.
I’d say it’s scar tissue, not proud flesh on her leg – proud flesh is generally red, scar tissue is dirty grey like what you can see.
I wouldn’t buy her, but I wouldn’t dismiss her until she is at least five years old, either. I think you’re right and that neck will mature a bit short for elegance, but I also think she will develop into a nice strong horse with a good, swinging action who will find it relatively easy to collect up. She has a nice, deep girth, a good throat, and I suspect the toeing out is a reflection of the photo as it would appear in the side-on shot that her knees are normal and her hooves point forward. I’ve accidently got the same from-the-front shot of a horse with lovely straight knees and hooves – the problem is that you tend to be encouraging them forward from an odd angle and the start to turn to the side, which means the front legs go off everywhere, particularly in an unbalanced youngster.
Her front pasterns have the same angle on them as the chestnut five year old – but because the five year old has matured, she doesn’t scream ‘fugly’ at the camera and you see a nicely balanced ‘whole’ rather than a yearling with a lot of growing to do.
I agree she’s totally fuggles at the moment, but what she’ll mature into? Well that is another matter.
Arcadia Horse,
i couldnt agree more about fugly growth stages and photography =)
i have some photos of my spanish colt that could land him on the front page of this blog as a study in fugly! im smart enough not to put those photos on the internet, heh. he went through the “oh god is he ewe necked?” stage. the “whats up with his front feet?” stage, the “are his stifles supposed to be that long?” stage as well the “what color?” stages. but now at 4 years old i can stop holding my breath. those legs are straight, the hock angle and stifle are about perfect and his front feet and ideal. i held off on “the knife” because i had seen his damm, sire and grand damm in person and knew what to expect when he matured =) i was always taught to judge the sire and damm when looking at as baby, although some angles dont change after birth (hock and shoulder) the rest cant really be “judged” except to look at mom and dad.
I have to join in this rant…
There is a horse broker/ riding instructor here in So Cal who has a nice older Andalusian stallion and she buys non papered QH mares of awful conformation to get them pregnant and then offer them for sale for more than twice what they are worth. There is a buckskin grade mare listed for $7,000.00 on dreamhorse that has had a ton of pro training and she has a horrendous head. This same lady sold a cremello grade mare with the most horrible post legs- super quiet beginners horse (I was looking for my hubby) preggers again to this stallion.
Now my dream is to own an Andalusian but not a crappy post legged or bull faced half Andalusian. I might have been happy to have a fugly grade mare that was safe for my hubby to ride and pay between $2000-$3000 for her but a fugly high priced baby too? No thanks! While she offered to do the foaling and buy the baby back, still no thanks. If I buy a horse for riding I want to ride, not wait to ride. There are too many on the market to have to settle for less than what I want.
About Mustangs as riding horses or endurance racers:
I have one that looks alot like a barb and he would make a great endurance prospect. The more he goes, the fitter he gets and the longer he CAN go. He’s outrun my friend’s TB on the flat – he goes longer, farther, & faster at only 13.3h. Also, he can start and finish on the short faster than I can blink and he can turn at speed.
He’s gelded thank goodness because he’d be like flying a kite in a tornado otherwise- good luck holding on.
I know many many mustangs who carry riders well into their 30′s. Both of mine were adopted at around 9 months of age so it’s really not the easiest to tell exactly how a youngster will turn out physically. But building trust early yields a more “domestic-like” horse so it’s a trade off of sorts. My more Arab/Barb type horse is hotter and my other horse (Morganish looking) is more quiet in temperament. So yes it’s pretty reliable to select mustangs for a purpose based on phenotype (in my experience).
what… when you are talkin ga price down its called “jewing” where im from…. so what its not correct…not all people speak perfectly, this blog and its readers are a perfect example.
I will proudly stand up and say, my way of saying things arn’t great, but alot of you guys say things that other people find just as offensive
No Larry, in English the correct word for that is Bartering. Now you are educated and have no excuse to use that phrase again.
In Spain, the Gypsies live by begging and pick-pocketing as well as selling their goods so “being gypped” is not completely undeserved however, Spain has no laws against descrimination in the job market. There is no such thing as an equal opportunity employer so prejudice keeps the very poor right where they are having to do whatever is necessary to feed their families.
Greywolf – Dennis Thompson, founder of the gypsy vanner horse registry, is a marketing genius. He was not, however, the first person to import the horses, and he certainly did not “discover” it. Originally, the only horses allowed into his registry were the ones *he* imported or bred. eventually, he opened it up to other horses, as well. The only people paying $50,000 for vanner weanlings are buying them from him, because he’s so good with the marketing. Other people selling third generation US born gypsies (they bought their stock from his breedings, and then are trying to sell their offspring), even using his imported bloodlines exclusively, generally aren’t even selling for half that price. I haven’t talked to him since last summer, but he was saying that he was having trouble selling all his stock on a yearly basis for the first time last year… compare that to a few years ago when his embryo babies were selling before they were even in the recipient mares! and don’t even get me started on the whole multiple embryo thing. Some gypsy breeders are pulling up to ten embryos, some from different stallions, out of their mare every year. and a lot of them aren’t even *good* mares. people forget to look under the feather at the leg conformation underneath. there are a lot of posty-legged gypsy horses. part of me says “you just sold that horribly conformed piece of crap hairy horse for how much???” but then I realize that someone *bought* it for that price. if there’s a market…
of course, the only use that many gypsies in the US have right now is making more gypsies. A lot of people import pregnant mares under the age of two, so that the horses have to spend less time in quarantine. and then, as soon as *those* fillies hit one and a half, out with the stallions they go. Ask them why, they’ll tell you “that’s the way the gypsies do it!” yeah, well, the gypsies are *wrong*
Um…. Non-dun horses have all but been bred out of the Fjord gene pool. How is the first filly half Fjord and Bay? It would be a rare Fjord that is not homozygous for Dun…
Barnibus – ROFL! I’ve had weanling warmbloods that make my eyes water, they’re so fugly. Fortunately my farm has a big back paddock where I can hide ‘em …. until that lovely day when someone catches sight of one of them cantering past and spends the next 10 minutes telling me all the things they love about that youngster who was once so ugly I didn’t think he’d ever mature ‘right’ – let alone graceful and elegant.
Mind you currently we geld everything male before weaning. Gives them extra height and leads them not into temptation with their sisters.
Fugs,
Picture help, PLEASE! I’m one of those with a album full of trees & butts because there’s a horse behind it or the horse just up and left while I was trying to find the right button.
Also, I wouldn’t pay 2K for either pony. Me thinks mayhaps you should look a bit more at the second (but such a purty color, I know).
Kah,
Basically, you get what you pay for. I’m revamping my plan now, but 5yr ago it cost over $1500 extra (no complications, hay under $100/ton) for a mare in foal. This was EXTRA over the normal care for a mare not in foal. Does not count stud fee, chute fees, anything with getting her in foal or anything after foaling. It can cost me $750 every cycle to prep & AI (not including prebreed exams) – no guarantee that stud in a straw gets here or is still swimming. I figure anything under 5K is “cheap”, when I start pushing calc buttons. A fee with more 00s will hopefully put more 00s in the foals price – if all goes well.
Farm Wife: Have fun, lots of pics. I’m gonna have to miss those fancy horses. Whenever you get the urge to ride a nose dragging, dancing QH, get over the mts and across the pond. Got a pony or two you can play cowboy on.
I very much doubt that that bay mare is a fjord cross. I have owned many 1/2 fjord crosses including fjordXdraft, fjordXarab, fjordXappy, fjordXpaint, fjordXQH and fjordXwelsh. All of them had very distinctive body types and colors even with the many other breed crosses. First of all, she would have to be a dun because all fjords are homozygous for dun. That mare looks nothing like any fjord cross I have ever owned or seen.
By the way, I have never bred a horse and all my fjord crosses were bought as geldings from various, different sources.
anniemare said…
Um…. Non-dun horses have all but been bred out of the Fjord gene pool. How is the first filly half Fjord and Bay? It would be a rare Fjord that is not homozygous for Dun..
Perhaps whichever parent was the Fjord was itself only half-Fjord, and the filly did not get the dun dilution?
BluBug said…
Fantasia,
That video for sale horse you posted…. he just looks sluggish at every turn, especially the canter. Like an Arab turned down to 75% speed.:::
Well, 50% anyway LOL! But isn’t that what one would expect from this cross? There are many out there that can’t deal with the high spirits of a purebred Arabian.
:::His tail is too low-set for my tastes as well, he tries to ‘flag’ it but it’s just not going. His trot isn’t high enough to be catchy like a Fresian and his common color makes him look like anyone’s QH from far away.:::
Hon, you better see an eye doctor. First of all, that was a 3 year old FILLY
If you think she looks like a QH, well, what can I say? Looks like what she is to me, a warmblood.
Granted, she’s not the most extravagant mover I’ve ever seen but better put together than a number of young warmbloods offered for far more money. All in all, she looks well bred, well cared for and not the least bit fugly (as some would have you believe this cross would produce).
You know, when you think about it, it is really sad that there are people who do this. Somehow there has to be a way to educate them besides walking around with a baseball bat using their heads for practice.
I agree with all you have said and more. I just want to cry sometimes because it is like bashing your head against a brick wall.
Arcadia Horses said: I know QHs mature quickly, so maybe what you have with a 2 year old QH is what it will mature as. :::
This has been posted many times but QH do NOT mature any more quickly than any other breed. They may look mature at two but they’re really not.
See Dr. Deb Bennett’s article: Timing and Rate of Skeletal Maturation in Horses
http://www.equinestudies.org/
knowledge_base/ranger.html
Annette said…
No Larry, in English the correct word for that is Bartering. Now you are educated and have no excuse to use that phrase again.
October 4, 2007 8:30 PM
Not to be too nitpicky or anything, but its really barganing. Bartering is trading goods or services for other goods or services, no cash involved. Jewing down is a slur against the jewish race and their reputation of being stingy with money
and brilliant me, barganing is really spelled bargaining
D’oh!
I meant to say how can she by 1/2 Fjord.
**smacks forehead**
Last night I saw a cross that really worked …and then some! A welsh TB FEI pony. Man was that thing something else. Fancy as could be and move! His half-pass could rival any big warmblood and his extentions! Woweee. I Want one!!
Looking at the video of the filly Fantasia posted I’d say she is showing that typical proppy canter of the loose horse chased round the paddock which is hard to evaluate. Maybe she looks a bit long in the body and generous compared to her legs, but looks like a nice sensible horse I’d enjoy working with.
Not the next Olympic champion, but a good usefull horse.
Ok, can someone tell me why this 1/2-bred appy filly is worth $10K
go to
Appys for sale
On the left hand column is a link to Appaloosas for sale
Go to the sales page and scroll down to Mocha Millenium …
Really, 10K – is that horse worth it? Notice no information on the dam…
Sorry this is kind of complicated to get to, I don’t know how to link to framed pages…
rin,
Okay, my comment should have read that Dennis was one of the first people to import the GV, but when I mentioned “discovered”, it was in relation to Cushti Bok, not the breed itself. And yes, he is a marketing genius. I’m amazed that they are allowing so many embryos each year out of one mare. Our registry allows for two…no more.
I think breding crosses are a good for comps. The Irish Sport Horse is the classic example. look how well they are doing across all displines. They have the movement for a decent dressge test, Scope to jump and then the Athltism to run around a cross country course. I have a Andulision x Holstiner and he is an excellent, stunning horse, he can jump the moon do a decent dressage, he has a great personalty. Some horses are just ugly but some people actully dont go for looks, they just love there horses, some people dont care about making profit, maybe they just want a horse so love until it grows old. We are seeing more cross breds these days and they are doing quite well, esp in the eventing/showjumping world..
She’s not saying that anything is wrong with cross-breds. However, just breeding anything is a bad idea. Like, for example, a draft saddlebred cross that I saw. It was a Clyde X Saddlebred – just a yearling. Had a ewe neck and legs too short and spindly for its body. Who thought breeding a heavy draft to a horse that was bred to be saddle ridden was a good idea?
Well, they were asking like $2,500.00 and it didn’t matter – it was SPOTTED.
Ugh.
greywolf -
a lot of people in the GV society disagree with the massive number of embryo babies produced by some farms. The futurity that’s been started in the midwest only allows the first-born embryo baby from a mare to be entered for the year, I think that’s a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, the people doing tons of ET also sit on the board of the society, and nobody’s going to step up and tell them to stop over-breeding their horses. If you speak out against certain members, you don’t sell any more horses. or at least, that’s the way it seems to me (as an observing outsider – I’m not a member of the GVHS at this point, and won’t be until certain members are no longer on the board).
I think two is a fine number of ET babies to register per mare. If she had had twins, and they both survived, they would be registerable. it’s when you get into mares producing litters of foals that it becomes an issue (for me, anyway)
Fantasia,
That filly you posted isn’t bad, but I don’t like her lack of legs and her rather long back. For that, I would pass her up if I was spending a lot of money. That said, I think she will make a nice mare for someone who wants to show some USDF stuff. And no, I wouldn’t call her a “warmblood” . She is a “sporthorse”.
Please stop,
I have NEVER seen an App go for that much. A world-quality broke app sells for that much. They don’t go for the same amounts as QH’s or Paints do. You can get a world-quality QH for like 40, a world-quality paint for 30 and a world-quality app for 10-15. Not sure why, but that’s the case. I think she’s cute, but I wouldn’t spend that much. Her sire is *very* proven, though. He’s a great horse.
“I find it fascinating that someone here mentioned the fact that “gypped” is an ethnic slur but no one said “boo” to Gospel According to Larry that wrote “I can talk anyone into jewing the price down.”"
Completely didn’t read that part! I had never heard anyone say that until I was in my teens. Man the things I learned from my father’s mother. She had a slur for everyone.
A $10,000 weanling better have a really special talent like shitting gold bars.
pleasestop,
colorisnteverything.
ive seen appy sporthorses sell for much more than that. or i should say Sporthorse Appys. the WAP line of appys is well sought after amoung sporthorse enthusiests that also like the appy color. horse that do well enough to not only win but also produce winners in the top ranks of the hunter, jumper, dressage and eventing world arnt really thought of as Appys, Paints, Palominos or Duns. the sporthorse world literally thinks of them as Sporthorses that happen to be colored too =) its more like “oh did you see the horse than won the amature open hunter yesterday? he was amazing, oh and he had spots too!”
All I can say is OMG!!!
I found this on the local Craigslist this morning!!!
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/grd/440632847.html
Sad to say I know who this person is. It’s beyond terrible there, the stories I can tell about the operation
…you people are sure interesting… I have nothing against jewish people…thats just how people talk down here, just like when you do something stupid your polish…yea…sure i’ll hear it for that…oh well…
Rin,
I totally agree….
suvalley,
from what i can in the pictures the horses look in good body condition and have obvioulsy been handled, thats always a bonus. at this point i give bonus points to ANY breeder that has good weight on their horses. of course its really sad that its gottten so bad that “isnt emaciated” gets a gold star >.<
most of the draftxQH crosses ive ever seen were actually pretty nice, well balanced horses with nice temperments. then again besides height and body mass differnces a stock type quarter horse and compact type draft are actually pretty alike in conformation so it makes sence that the cross would yeild pretty balanced offspring. of course the real question is “why do it in the first place” and those people dont appear to be breeding with any real purpose in mind. and when people willing to trade a horse for just about anything “vehicles, trailers, 4 wheelers and snowmobiles, etc” it strikes me that the horses they are selling are nothing more than an “vehicle” and not thought of as a living breathing animal. that doesnt often end well for the horse >.>
Ohio,
You are completely correct! And bargain sort of means “deal” correct? In today’s marketing I see bargain related to “sale” and it really can be confusing for someone who speaks English as a second language- no matter how long I’ve had that second language. Thank you.
>>>>>The Gospel According To Larry said…
…you people are sure interesting… I have nothing against jewish people…thats just how people talk down here, just like when you do something stupid your polish…yea…sure i’ll hear it for that…oh well…
October 5, 2007 7:31 AM< <<<<
It’s getting to the point you can’t open your mouth anymore without offending someone. Come get me PC police. *eye roll* I don’t have the time or patience to think about every damn word that comes out of my mouth for fear I might hurt someone’s itty bitty feewings.
Well, there are people in my home town that use the N-word, but I wouldn’t dare say it. There are neo nazis in the town square that own a store they say bad things about everyone except Aryans (so I guess I am okay LOL)but I don’t say what they say. If everyone jumped off a freakin’ bridge would you do it, too, Larry?
horsepoor said, “It’s getting to the point you can’t open your mouth anymore without offending someone. Come get me PC police. *eye roll* I don’t have the time or patience to think about every damn word that comes out of my mouth for fear I might hurt someone’s itty bitty feewings.”
I hear you on that one. Horse people are no different when it comes to their horses, either. I have stated MY goals and strict selection criteria on many public forums, so everyone that doesn’t have those same goals and strict selection criteria thinks I am saying they are somehow stupid and their horses are crap. Go figure. People read between the lines only what they WANT to read.
That’s what is so neat about this blog. People can speak their minds without worrying about some moderator shutting them up for saying something that might hurt someone’s feelings. People can actually LEARN something from those who speak freely and don’t sugarcoat everything. Those that whine don’t want to learn anything in the first place. It must be nice to be so naive and always the victim.
I guess I just don’t think of a full app as being a sporthorse. I have seen plenty outcrosses sell for more, but not usually as weanlings and not usually as full bred paints, QH’s, or Apps. I don’t know much about the mare, so for all we know she could be a TB, but if we are talking circuit, they don’t generally sell for that much as weanlings. And BTW, I did note Waps Millenium. He is a tremendous sire.
I just think that if you think someone is a cheap ass then why not use those words instead of calling them a jew? If they are piece of shit thieves then why use gypped? Offend whoever you want but I think it’s more effective to offend the right target. I’m no PC lover.
Future, it is okay to speak your mind, but offending someone because they were born a certain way or hold certain religious beliefs is different. While using the word the way he did isn’t like the n-word, it could be fully avoided.
That’s what I was saying. If their stupidity is somehow endangering their horses/animals/children/people, then call them out on it. But don’t stoop to racial slurs or distasteful sayings.
As for forums, I just recently pretty much left one because I commented on a thread in which a BYB know-nothing girl bred her horse to some no-name stallion and lost her due to complications. She then wanted to let her stud colt live in a pasture with an open mare because it was okay. After all, he wasn’t capable of producing, right? This was just one in a long line of posts. Other topics were, “help, I can’t feed my horse, how can I stretch feed?” and “How can I get a horse shelter for under $300 and do they really need one in the winter?” I had to put my foot down. The mods and other members called me names and blamed me for a million things. I felt bad that she lost her mare, but I wanted to save her from more problems.
If you don’t think of Appaloosas as sport horses, it’s because you’ve bought into the ApHC’s misguided (though successful) attempt to turn the Appaloosa into a QH with spots. Nothing wrong with a good QH, but Appaloosas are NOT Qh w/spots. The two stallions (and many of the broodmares) at Confetti Farms in California are in the 90th percentile of Foundation blood, each is 16.3. The senior stallion, Choklate Confetti, evented to Preliminary level successful and also competed in dressage. The junior stallion is out of a daughter of Choklate Confetti, but sired by Wap Spotted – the crossing of two foundation lines. They are definitely sport horses and sport horse types. She sells Appaloosa to Germany, not for those who want to play cowboys and indians, but who want sport horses. She has produced some lovely WBXApp, Arab/App and TB/App horses – all definitely sport horse types. I believe JG does more outcrosses, but most of the JG stallions are heavily foundation bred.
colorisnteverything said, “As for forums, I just recently pretty much left one because I commented on a thread in which a BYB know-nothing girl bred her horse to some no-name stallion and lost her due to complications. She then wanted to let her stud colt live in a pasture with an open mare because it was okay. After all, he wasn’t capable of producing, right? This was just one in a long line of posts. Other topics were, “help, I can’t feed my horse, how can I stretch feed?” and “How can I get a horse shelter for under $300 and do they really need one in the winter?” I had to put my foot down. The mods and other members called me names and blamed me for a million things. I felt bad that she lost her mare, but I wanted to save her from more problems.”
Yeah, I agree, and I wasn’t talking about racial slurs. But I hear you on the forums. They really are populated by a bunch of idiots (with the exception of a precious few), but then, I’m a stuck up know-it-all bitch for saying that, too. Good for you for speaking up.
To me, a lot of these “new breeds” that are made from weird-ass crosses are just a way of trying to place value on a grade horse.
How many crosses have you seen being bred by responsible people with quality animals trying to improve on the parents, as opposed to morons just breeding crap to crap?
Of course, I suppose some of these crosses could be chalked up to Bubba’s desire to actually see what a mating (human or equine) that was NOT a result of inbreeding was like…
I feel the same way about “designer dogs” as I do the horses. Twenty years ago, a “Labradoodle” would have been a mutt waiting to die in a shelter. Today it’s a mutt waiting for someone to shell out $1,000+ for it.
Oh, and to Larry: You are a dumbass. Say what you want to at home, but don’t drop a slur on the WORLD WIDE web and then get your panties in a bunch when people take offense to it. Them internets do actually reach people outside of Podunk!
I saw the “jewing down” comment too. But I was on pretty serious pain killers at the time (got dumped off a pony, completely not his fault, and landed on my ass… The ground is a lot harder when one’s 43, not 17…) so I doubted I could say anything coherent. Also, one bad experience with someone who does the whole “that’s just how we talk around here, it doesn’t mean anything” makes me pretty shy of calling someone on it. Yes, I’m Jewish BTW.
But let me tell you, it’s still an insult. And a *classy* person will learn from their mistakes. (As I did, having once used such a slur against Asians… The people I was with gave me the serious hairy eyeball and I’ve been very careful ever since.)
You *can* say whatever you want, but if you can say it without using an ethnic slur, that’s the better choice 99% of the time!
Sandy M,
i couldnt agree with you more =)
sporthose appys often have heavy foundation line and cross great on lighter thoroughbreds to produce taller, leggier horses without losing the solid body and rugged build of the older type appy. however with that being said there are now lots “Thoroughpalooas” and “Appybreds” (lols) showing in the sporthorse ranks. many of them are pretty far from the origional appaloosa too, nearly as extreme as the “Quarterpaloosa” but in the opposite direction. id LOVE to a really nice Wap bred horse but i cant spend that kind of money right now, not to mention i already have one long term project. i really dont need another one(i keep telling myself that. no more horses!). it would be nice to find a discount “crop out” solid colored Wap bred but the non-spotted go for a much as the spotted!
Dear Suvalley, o’my’god! Breeding drafts to minis???!!! Then putting the kiddiwinks up on the foals to show how they “love” children??!! Little too much nippin’ at the midnight sun up there, folks?
New FHOTD motto suggestion: Just because you CAN do something is no reason you SHOULD do something.
Dear Shovels,
Which mountains and which pond? I can handle the Cascades (am heading over Snoqualmie tomorrow morning) and I’ve swum in Lake Washington. Where oh where are your peanut pushin’ ponies? (says she off to enjoy a weekful of upheaded hotties).
I was just perusing craigslist in my area and ran across this:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/431385819.html
What the hell is going on with her neck? Is that a crest or a damn shark fin?
Barnibus – The Confetti horses are as nice as the Wap horses, and a lot of her recent crop are sired by her younger stallion, who is a son of Wap Spotted. She’s concentrating on showing her young gelding (my horse’s full brother), and is willing to sell some of her horses for less. You might want to check out the website:
Confettifarms.com
P.S. Since Lewis & Clark commented that the Nez Perce horses were comparable to Virginia blood horses, I.e., TBs, I think the TB type is still closer to the original good Appaloosa type. It’s hard having to refute all the misconceptions about Appies: The “fugly” Apps that resulted from the U. S. Government forcing the Nez Perce to cross on draft, etc. Thompson’s first crosses were Appy/Arab, and neither he nor Geo. Hatley much approved of the modern ApHC program of turning Appies into colored (and often not colored) QHs. And no real Appy ever had/has HYPP – it’s the massive intro of all that Impressive QH blood that did that! Aaargh. And the ApHC will register H/H horses!!!
Sandy M
nooooooooo i dont need another horse! bakersfield? oh come on! thats near to where my mom lives, now i have to make a side trip to look some horses next time i visit my mother. look what you’ve done!
i do not need another horse
i do not need another horse
i do not need another horse
i just have to keep saying it…>.>
HorsePoor said…
I was just perusing craigslist in my area and ran across this:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/431385819.html
What the hell is going on with her neck? Is that a crest or a damn shark fin?
If you look really close I think it is a roached mane growing out and now to the mohawk stage. But it sure does look funny.
Unfortunately cross breeding to a draft is the current ‘In’ thing around here. Everyone wants a draft cross. I have seen some nice ones, and I have see some FUUUGLY ones! The worst I have had was a Belgian Saddlebred cross gelding. Sweet horse, but had the saddlebred nerves with Belgian reactions. Spooked, but slowly..LOL! Had saddlbred back, head, and leg conformation, with Belgian neck, rump, belly and feet. Are you shuddering yet? Yeah..but I bought him, retrained him, and now he is a happy backyard trail horse.
I have had two that were spectacular, a Perch TWH cross, only fault was the neck could have been longer, but she is eventing now with a pony clubber, and winning everything. Fabulous dressage and jumps the moon. Totally spook proof too.
The other was a Clyde TB cross. TB conformation and athleticism, drafty bone and temperament. Yeah, her neck was a bit short too, and that head was all Clyde. She is a dressage star now, and quite a charecter. (lets herself out anytime she wants to go visiting.)
But I have to assume, seeing the product, that the horses bred to produce these two were good quality to begin with (at least for Dressag amd eventing). A horse can be a loser in their breed showing, and go on to be a star in something else where it is all performance, like Eventing, or western games, and their non ‘breed standard’ conformation is actually a plus.
Dear Barnibus… Bwaahhhaaaahhhaaaa
You know you’ll love making that trip!!! There’s a few spot filly that’s probably going to be huge.. she’s 3, ready to start…… or there’s a DWB cross bay blanketed weanling filly……and actually, there’s a chestnut leopard weanling colt sired by Wap Spot of JG Appaloosas….
it would be nice to find a discount “crop out” solid colored Wap bred but the non-spotted go for a much as the spotted!
And that comment is the best tribute to their breeding strategy you could find. If it is quality, no matter what the color, it will sell. They are doing things right.
Shadow Rider, the problem I have with draft crosses is that I, personally, have known three people with draft crosses, and while they were attractive (one looked like some sort of WB) and successful… their hocks were shot at an early age. Taking abreed meant to pull, and asking it to balance back on it’s hocks (Shire/TB). Another was evented – and retired at 10 with ringbone/sidebone (Shire/TB). A friend currently is jumping a purebred Belgian…he’s 9 …. but she’s thinking of retiring him to be a trail horse, because while he’s been quite successful, 3′ is his limit, and she has to lock him in his stall for two days before a jumping lessons so he’ll have “enough energy.” Sigh. I just don’t care of them until you get down to about 1/8th draft. Now, I’m sure there are others that do just fine soundness wise, but the instances I cited are just a few of MANY I have known or heard of with instances of early breakdowns.
i do not need another horse…
It’s funny looking back, when I was a kid growing up in LA-TX area, everyone had 14 hand QH’s, with a sprinkling of Arabs. All solid, usually bay or chestnut. The tallest horse at our barn was an App. 15+ hands, leopard with chestnut spots. He was rangy, didn’t have much mane or tail, and we all thought he was the ugliest thing on earth. But, that horse could go all day, and jumped anything his rider pointed him at. Of course she rode english (only one at the barn), and we all thought she was a sissy for that anyway. LOL!
I was taught that the expression is “chewing” someone down on the price. Now while that may have spun off the original slur, it’s a pretty good compromise to use, wouldn’t you say?
Still, this is a non PC blog and I’ve said it before, I’m not about to smack anybody for saying non PC things here. I’m half Jewish, I personally am not offended by the expression. The Jewish people are known for being shrewd businessmen/women and I think the expression is a reflection on that. How is it a slur to say someone knows how to get the best price for something? I think that’s a compliment, and it’s definitely true of myself…there’s no WAY I pay full price for anything if there is a deal to be made/you can buy it on ebay/you can buy it used!
Shovels, I noted she wasn’t a conformation pony…she’s back at the knee among some other things…but for $2000, if she jumps x’s and is sensible and sound, that’s a totally fair price in my book. That pony WOULD resell for more, at least in this area (PNW).
As for warmbloods and fugly stages, that may be but they don’t grow out of a beak like that filly’s and they don’t grow out of legs that point east and west. They just don’t. They grow out of ugly necks, they grow into downhill conformation, hips fill out, ribs fill out, but some things are never going to change no matter how they grow.
I have a weanling orphaned 6 month old Appendix colt. Right now even I think he’s fugly and I’m his owner. His basic structure is good – gorgeous shoulder, short back, good bone – but he’s got a ewe neck, big old TB ears from his big old TB momma, and he’s still got the potty orphan belly and ribs despite frequent deworming. Dad was 15.3, Mom was 17.0 and baby is unbelievably ass-high at present. The vets say we’re doing everything right and just have to let him mature and not worry about the current appearance. I think he is going to be fug for probably 2 years and sometime around 3, he’s going to turn into a swan, but we shall see.
forfutureofthebreed said:
“but then, I’m a stuck up know-it-all bitch for saying that, too.”
Hee hee hee…my favorite thing to say in this instance:
“People who think they know everything, really annoy those of us that do!” ;-D
Kay said…
HorsePoor said…
I was just perusing craigslist in my area and ran across this:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/431385819.html
What the hell is going on with her neck? Is that a crest or a damn shark fin?
If you look really close I think it is a roached mane growing out and now to the mohawk stage. But it sure does look funny.
October 5, 2007 9:25 AM
No Kay, that is an EXTREMELY obese Paso mare! look at her butt too. Pasos can get a huge crest if they get obese like that. That mare is probably on the verge of founder and the owner is probably clueless…
Sandy M
But what eventing horse doesn’t have injuries, etc if they event hard? People here are going to the crosses because they last longer than the ones they have been useing (usually TB) I agree about the hocks, a friend has a Shire/TB cross retired to trails now because of hock stifle injuries. But that is why I say the horses bred to create the cross must be superior. The Perch TWH cross was 12 yrs old, and absolutely sound, and still going. (and pony clubbers are rough on their horses, LOL!) the Clyde cross was 8, so time will show how she does.
You can’t find a dressage or event horse around here over 12 without some issue, so I think it’s the dicipline as much as the horses conformation. People don’t realize how much stress dressage puts on the horses joints.
But none of these guys are going to the Olympics, they are just lower level fun horses.
It’s funny they both sold to kids, as I figured the drafts would be snapped up by the middle aged timid super chicken novice group.
Going back to the blog subject- I was just reading a thread on another message board about fjord crosses, apparently the look of a fjord is very strong and crosses will look very fjord-like. Someone posted a pic of two fjordXQH and they look just like big fjords. I can’t see any fjord in that filly at all, she does look a bit like a deer, maybe a saiga antelope?
colorisnteverything said:
“As for forums, I just recently pretty much left one because I commented on a thread in which a BYB know-nothing girl bred her horse to some no-name stallion and lost her due to complications. She then wanted to let her stud colt live in a pasture with an open mare because it was okay. After all, he wasn’t capable of producing, right? This was just one in a long line of posts. Other topics were, “help, I can’t feed my horse, how can I stretch feed?” and “How can I get a horse shelter for under $300 and do they really need one in the winter?” I had to put my foot down. The mods and other members called me names and blamed me for a million things. I felt bad that she lost her mare, but I wanted to save her from more problems.”
October 5, 2007 8:34 AM
Yeah, online message forums seem to be the favorite hunting grounds for morons and shit breeders to find suckers to buy their crappy production from their crappy breeding programs.
They get a herd of sheep together that buy every line they spout (i.e. – ‘his shoulder is GREAT’ when it is in fact straight up and down…), whether it’s true or not, and when they get a good cult going, they start plugging their horses as ‘the best things ever’, and the sheep (not being able or educated enough to decide on their own) say ‘oh, if blah-de-blah says it’s a good horse, that must be the case! And thus they plunk down a thousand bucks for a do-nothing, poorly conformed poorly bred and poorly taken care of WEANLING out of the sheep-herders program… which of course encourages the sheep herder/shit horse breeder to breed MORE shit horses next year… yup, the cycle continues. And that is the primary role of the online horse forum in the cycle of production of mediocrity in the stock horse market.
That and if you even twist your mouth to politely disagree with anyone who is a part of the larger ‘cliques’… you get called a ‘snob’ or a ‘bitch’ or other terrible names. Give me a break. I’m EDUCATED, which is more than I can say for those assholes. That’s for damn sure.
So I commend you on maintaining your strength in your opinion and abandoning the idiot cult that is the online horse forum.
Because it is a proven fact that people cannot tolerate advice unless they ask for it, and even when they ask for it, they can’t tolerate it if they view it as critical.
I’d rather spend my time calling these morons out by name on the FHOTD blog… hopefully that will hit home some and enact SOME sort of change, since gentle and sincere advice certainly didn’t.
I e-mailed the owners of the Paso mare with the swordfish fin neck and I tried to be nice *ouch that hurt* LOL. Gawd are people blind? How can you not look at your horse and say “hmmmm something doesn’t look quite right about that neck”. Morons.
Just curious what all your opinions on horse slaughter are here they are currently shut down because of how cruel it is to slaughter horses for humans to eat well now look what our poor horses have to go and indure.Thousands of miles to Mexico on those crappy trailers if they do not die before they get there they get hacked with a small knife in the back till there spinal cord is severed and they can not stand then still alive hoisted up and there neck slit to bleed out to death now how is this more humane then a bullet to the brain done in Canada/or a bolt gun in the US plants done right.Now they are fighting to stop the transport of slaughter horses which I would have thought would have been the first thing they should have tryed to stop
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5175642.html
Completely Off Topic for this thread, but what do you all think about this QH mare? http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=1920192&lpid=2&cat=106 Her feet are completely nasty, I realize, but I think she’s purty. Wonder if I could CHEW the owner down on the price to maybe $500 (sorry–had to say it, FHOTD) and give her a nice home. Plus, I’d like another horse that can trail ride with my QH (he’s a bit slow for the TWHs). Of course, I need another horse like I need another hole in the head, and this one would need to be sent to my trainer for 60 days… but one cannot help but look…
tierra said…
Completely Off Topic for this thread, but what do you all think about this QH mare? http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=1920192&lpid=2&cat=106 Her feet are completely nasty, I realize, but I think she’s purty. Wonder if I could CHEW the owner down on the price to maybe $500 (sorry–had to say it, FHOTD) and give her a nice home. Plus, I’d like another horse that can trail ride with my QH (he’s a bit slow for the TWHs). Of course, I need another horse like I need another hole in the head, and this one would need to be sent to my trainer for 60 days… but one cannot help but look…
October 5, 2007 10:07 AM
I had to cringe when the owner wrote ‘great confirmation’… GAWD… How do they know she stands for a farrier? She obviously hasn’t done it in a LOOOOOOONG time.
As long as you weren’t breeding her, though, she’d make a decent project horse for sure. She’s got the typical poorly-thought-out high percentage conformation faults: long back, too far out behind, and unbalanced. Of course she got bred because… she’s a buckskin. *barf*
I say buy her and spay her! That way you never have to deal with heats, and you don’t have to worry about, if you ever had to sell her, people breeding her because of her color. She very well COULD make you a decent riding animal though.
Shadow Rider – Yeah, all horses that “work for a living” are eventually going to have problems, but these problems seem premature in many draft crosses. Yes, my 2nd gen TB/Appy, who did H/J, evented a very little, was a trail horse and showed dressage to 2nd level, schooled 3rd, needed hock injections by his mid-teens. BUT… that Shire/TB, showing and schooling to the same level, was getting hock injections at age 10. When my horse had injections, he was restricted to light work under saddle for 4-5 days (walk/trot/trail – no collection), then back to normal work. The Shire/TB had to be HAND WALKED FOR TWO WEEKS after his hocks were injected. Not saying it’s true for all draft crosses, just saying it has happened in ones I have personally encountered more than it has in similar TBs/Appendix QH/Arabs, i.e., any purely light horse breeds.
Yeah, I really didn’t need to see an ass-end shot of that filly’s Va Jay Jay – What, exactly was that shot trying to prove? She’s a filly all right.. Geesh.
October 5, 2007 9:25 AM
No Kay, that is an EXTREMELY obese Paso mare! look at her butt too. Pasos can get a huge crest if they get obese like that. That mare is probably on the verge of founder and the owner is probably clueless…
Okay, you are right, I was looking at the close up picture and the line of the neck going up and thought the fin was the mane standing up. Looking closer I can see it is a roll of fat. Too bad I can’t buy her and she and I could go on a diet together.
though draft crosses can often be plagued by hock issues at young age its not just draft crosses that can suffer from the crossing of “heavy to light”. really any cross that matches up a very heavy horse with a very light horse is likely to end up hock issues at an early age if the cross doesnt end up with the bigger hocks of “whover”. this is why choosing the right individuals is so important. the draftXTBs ive seen that were bred from big, thick, monster warmbloods-like TBs did quite well over the long run with few bone issues. i had a Bold Ruler bred TB broodmare that could put alot of warmbloods to shame on sheer size. she was thick, huge bodied had huge feet and wore a true warmblood size halter and even that was close to snug. HUGE was the only way to discribe her, i have no doubt she should have produced very nice offspring if bred an equally nice draft. i would have never considered breeding her to a slender arab stallion or even a slender refined TB stallion. if the resulting foal ended up with dads hocks but moms massive body i have do doubt hock issue would have surely followed.
the arab draft crosses really make me nervice, i cant imagine the hocks on such a horse holding up for long. its such an extreme cross that is really no middle ground in what you will get. the resulting foal will either be freakishly perfect or a total disaster. its way to much a crap shoot for my taste.
i know a lady with a Friesian stallion who breeds that horse to anything and everything. He’s a decent-looking horse, but in truth he’s probably not *really* breeding-quality. But hey! Friesian Sporthorses OMG!
^
A big mistake that a lot of people make with draft crosses is starting them too young…they are so big and heavy, you really do need to give their legs time to bone-up and backs time to grow. Have you seen a new born Clyde? Legs like an ACCORDION. I think that a lot of the pre-mature hock injuries stem from that.
Not all though. I would imagine most draft crosses that go prematurely lame are the result of some idiot light-horse breeder picking a draftie at random to figuring they “know all about” draft confo…when they don’t.
the gospel according to larry said…
thats just how people talk down here
Nah, just the ignorant ones.
Oh for Crying Out Loud said:
“She’s got the typical poorly-thought-out high percentage conformation faults: long back, too far out behind, and unbalanced.”
I didn’t even notice the long back–I think I’ve been looking at my long-backed TWH and potentially even longer-backed Friesian for so long. I’m terrible at conformation and critically evaluating a horse. I’m such a sucker for color and pretty, I admit it. But I can’t tell if her legs are really that far out behind, or if she just can’t stand correctly because she hasn’t seen a farrier for the past year.
Either way, I am with Barnibus… “I DO NOT NEED ANOTHER HORSE…”
But I do think she’s cute and might be fun to ride.
Blackfluffyhorses hit on something that was bothering me when she said
“On the other hand assuming that every Friesian put on this earth is a perfect beginners horse you can just hop on with minimal breaking, that they will never put a foot wrong, be unflappable in all situations etc etc is a stupid as it is for any other horse.”
This is a very good point.
Friesians are being marketed as horses that are so quiet and amenable that any idiot can manage them. Unfortunately that appeals to idiots who think that they can look marvellous on this fantastic hairy black creature without having to go to the bother of learning anything whatsoever about horses or riding. The one that suffers in this of course is the horse.
3 year old barely broken friesian stallions are advertised (in Holland) as suitable for novice riders! I don’t care what breed it is, no 3 year old stallion (or mare for that matter) is suitable for a novice rider.
I’m sure people are buying these horses thinking that they will just climb on board and something magical and mystical will happen. They will then gallop off into the sunset, transformed into a wonderful rider on a beautifully trained and obedient mount.
People are being seduced by this cruel myth and don’t seem to realise THESE ARE HORSES. They do horse things, they need educated by owners capable of educating them.
It is doing this marvellous breed a huge disservice to market it in a way that appeals to people who would be better buying a stuffed toy.
I wouldn’t kick that buckskin mare out of my pasture. I guess her owners are not aware of farriers though.
Fugly:
If your policy is to condone the use of racial slurs on this forum, I won’t be back. Please reconsider this choice.
Totally off the original topic…I hate Craigslist posters….
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/grd/440243993.html
Wish I could help him out, no his not perfect, but I bet he’d make me a nice trail horse with a few hundreds pounds and some wormer. I bet if you showed up with a trailer and offered them $900, he’d go home with you. Darn it, wish I could do it, sigh…
Did I mention I HATE Craigslist horse sellers???
Wow only a few things to comment on…
The jewish slur about them being tight with their money… The jewish folks I know would be highly insulted and rightfully so. They are some of the most generous folks I know. They give willingly of their time and money when needed, but expect only one small thing in return.
They do not ask much, only that you do something to help yourself, so you aren’t in the same situtaion down the road, begging again, and again, and again. They give once, but not again if no effort has been made on your part.
The ‘not bad’ Arab breeding- as others have stated- you get what you pay for. Cheap stud fees, no matter how nice, friendly or pretty the stallion, doesn’t guarantee a stellar foal, or even another mediocre represenative of the breed…
Keep in mind that during the foaling process, you could lose your mare. Not a gamble worth taking to a lot of us. Think of how you would feel then. If the foal survived, are you ready to take on 24/7 care until it is ‘out of the woods’? If not can you afford the $$$ for someone else to? If it is a colt are you going to geld early on to ensure you don’t end up a BYB like FHOTD posts about.
The $10K filly. While I wouldn’t pay that much for a weanling or even a yearling, some folks do and don’t even bat an eye while writing the check our whipping out the *gasp* cash.
No matter the breeding, quality or show record, folks can *ask* whatever price they want. What they *GET* is sometimes a completely different story.
As for buying weanlings, yearlings and even two or three year olds for that matter. They can and sometimes do get injured, before they ever start a career doing anything.
A friend of ours has a gorgeous WB colt. He’s tall, 4 y/o and a nice represenative of his breed. He managed to injure himself well enough to keep him from attending the inspection.
A friend of hers, has a well bred, young stallion who’s jumping career may never leave the ground, let alone even make the in gate, due to an injury.
Keeping them sound is difficult enough at any age without them ‘being horses’ and doing to themselves, things the vet’s cannot undo.
oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
I had to cringe when the owner wrote ‘great confirmation’
Uhmmm…yeah. That’s my favorite, right up there with:
Philly: (female foal from Philadelphia,perhaps?)
Filly colt: Hermaphrodite?
Guilding: Gold colored horse?
But “Confirmation” does take the cake. One must wonder where the dear faithful horse did the Catechysm class.
horsepoor did you get a response? I’m curious to know who it is, since Troy, Mo is just across the state from me, I’m wondering if I know them.
oh good lord, I just notice the price on that Paso mare! $900!!
deonne, that posting was deleted….
speaking if Friesian sporthorses…i went past an old hunter jumper farm the other day. It certainly isn’t as nice of place as it used to be, but I noticed a rather large handpainted sign on the fence touting….you guessed it…Friesian Sporthorses! I’ll have to go back by this weekend and maybe get some photos. it really was a nice place once upon a time.
Troy is 7 miles east of me. I don’t know anyone with a Paso though. I doubt I’ll get a response but I hope it makes them think and they at least ask the vet about it or put the poor thing on a diet.
Horsepoor- I forgot to mention that poor mare in the CL ad looks to have the cresty neck that may go with EIR. Equine Insulin Resistance is similar to diabetes, but instead of the body not producing insulin, it is producing enough if not more and the body builds up a resistance to it.
It is commonly seen in obese animals which sport the cresty necks as well as the fat globuls in the wither, shoulder and hindquarters near the dock of the tail. (such as hers in photo #2)
Some horses develop EIR during puberty or pregnancy and ponies tend to be more prone to it than larger breeds.
There is information on the internet about it and the horse.com did an article last August.
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10134&nID=7
Some sites equate it to cushings disease, and many encourage feeding grass hay, or timothy rather than alfalfa.
I would like to say, and correct me if I’m wrong, that threatening to leave this blog probably does not have the same result as it does on the horse forums. I always hated those ridiculous “I’m leaving” threads wherein the poster was whining about how mean everyone was and they were leaving and never coming back. Waaaaa. But they never went away. *eye roll* This strikes me as a place for grown-ups and honesty where you won’t always enjoy what you read and you may take the brunt of some unpleasant honesty. This place is not for the faint of heart or the immature. I like it.
CutNJump, there is definitely something going on there and I don’t know how anyone could look at that horse and not see that something is wrong. It’s so obvious it’s pathetic. Or worse yet maybe they do know and are just trying to dump her to some ignorant rube. Perhaps that’s why they chose craigslist. People suck.
“Fugly:
If your policy is to condone the use of racial slurs on this forum, I won’t be back. Please reconsider this choice.”
When did this blog become Politically Correct?
Policy, rules, political correctness….there’s none of that crap here. LOL
Shit, it’s Friday, where are the margaritas? Double shit, it’s my birthday too. Let’s partay.
Badges? We don’t need no stinking badges….
Ok. So I read Fugly’s response to the WORD in question and I’ve got to say…I don’t see where she either condemned nor condoned anything. She merely restated that this is an open forum, without censoring, and that she didn’t personally find the term offensive. Big deal.
This whole bullshit idea of socially ‘banishing’ certain terms or words is more inflammatory than the words themselves.
Changing “words” doesn’t change minds. I highly doubt Larry has swastikas on his saddle. People who were offended spoke up. Larry responded. So what?
“No persons of any particular ethnicity were harmed during the production of this post.”